WAIVER MONDAY

There are some very talented (if flawed) players on NHL waivers this morning, and they’re hoping to get picked off waivers today. I spoke to Justin Bourne last week about waivers, and he told me you want to make the team you’re on, and then you want to be picked on waivers by any of the other 29 teams if you get sent down. So, if you’ve grown emotionally attached to Tyler Pitlick since 2010 (he’s a favorite of mine) chances are he’ll be over it before you (and me). And that’s cool, these young men dreamed of playing in the NHL, and if their drafting team can’t use them the waiver opportunity gives them a chance to land in another town. One final thing: as a fan, when one of your favorite players is on waivers, there’s a feeling of impeding doom. I’m here to tell you, it rarely happens. Seriously.

The Oilers put four players on waivers yesterday and you can make a case for all of them being claimed. Lander and Pitlick are young players who have turned themselves into useful fringe NHL players and may be able to improve from there. Craig MacTavish’s comments on Pitlick’s waivers could serve as a minor endorsement:

  • MacT: “I think Tyler is at a position right now that we wish he would have been at a year or a year and a half ago. He’s turned himself into a professional. I think that it ended up with Tyler, as well as Pinizzotto, were two difficult decisions. It got down to a positional bias and I thought the 13th forward here would be best served by being a centreman and it was a risk I was willing to take.” Source

So, if I’m reading this right, and I think I am, he said ‘look, he’s a pretty good player today and the only reason we’re keeping the other guy is that Pitlick isn’t a center. But if you’re another team who could use a winger, this guy has learned the drill in the AHL and he’s good to go.’ I don’t know if they teach that in GM school but they shouldn’t if they do.

CURRENT OILERS (23 plus IR)

LEFT WING CENTER RIGHT WING
TAYLOR HALL RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS JORDAN EBERLE
BENOIT POULIOT LEON DRAISAITL NAIL YAKUPOV
DAVID PERRON MARK ARCOBELLO
TEDDY PURCELL
MATT HENDRICKS BOYD GORDON
JESSE JOENSUU
LUKE GAZDIC (IR LIKELY) WILL ACTON
   
LEFT DEFENSE RIGHT DEFENSE
OSCAR KLEFBOM JEFF PETRY
NIKITA NIKITIN
MARK FAYNE
ANDREW FERENCE JUSTIN SCHULTZ
DARNELL NURSE BRAD HUNT
 
  GOAL  
  BEN SCRIVENS  
  VIKTOR FASTH

Leaving aside the vexing (and short term) demotion of Marincin, this looks about right. Right at the end of camp Eakins put Kraftwerk and Yakupov together and the chem was there immediately, so it makes sense Pouliot or Perron play the Pisani role and the other two create. One of the truly positive moments of TC came when Eakins defended Yakupov during a point in preseason where muttering and mumbling took flight in some circles. Eakins is a smart guy, he knows that winning involves having as many legit offensive options as possible. Nail Yakupov is a legit offensive option and he’s bought in. I hope he scores 30, and then keeps going. Jesse Joensuu won the race over Pitlick and Steve Pinizzotto, and one hopes he performs better this season than last. Avoiding concussion will be key.

I have the pairings above but that’s unlikely what we’ll see. Expect Nurse to play at least three of the first four games (no sense having him here to sit). I also think the Oilers should consider a Petry-Fayne top pairing, and using Klefbom with Schultz. Nurse and Schultz should NOT be on NHL ice together early in the year.

MARINCIN’S RETURN

marincinfergusonI don’t think the Oilers take long to call Marincin back, for a couple reasons. First, it’s fine to send one of your best defensemen to the minors for shortcomings in training camp, it’s quite another to begin the season on a losing streak. The Oilers have once again talked themselves into something, and God knows MacT and Eakins have shown the ability to get stubborn on a decision. However, the won-loss record is King, and an opening night loss to Calgary or a poor performance in G2 will have Edmonton calling Marincin back up. I wouldn’t be completely shocked if they IR Nikitin before opening night and tell MM to haul ass to the airport.

 ANOTHER TAKE ON THE CURRENT ROSTER

As someone who has a well-earned reputation for suggesting three-for-one trades or waiver claims galore, today might be a watershed opportunity for the Edmonton Oilers.

  1. How? They have all kinds of ways to add a player from the waiver wire.
  2. Like? They could IR Nikitin today, or send down Acton.
  3. Is that their plan? Probably not.
  4. Should it be? I think so.
  5. Why? Quoting James Mirtle: There could well be more than 100 players that hit waivers – putting them up for grabs essentially free – on Monday, which makes it an uncertain time for players and a busy one for management. Source.
  6. How good will these players be? Carter Ashton is a very interesting player Toronto may waive today, and there are lots of others. The Oilers sounded convinced of their roster yesterday, maybe they don’t make a move. I think there is going to be legit talent available, and maybe a solid fit at center.
  7. Or power play? TJ Brennan is available this morning, he’s an excellent option. I expect the Oilers are content with Hunt in that area.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

hepburn

10 this morning, TSN 1260. We begin with Scott Burnside, talking injuries, waivers and the NY Islanders trades on the weekend. Following Scott, it’s Alex Thomas from Oilers Rig to talk Oilers waivers (we’ll have today’s by then) and the 23-man roster that is staying north for the season. At 11, we unleash Dennis King and I can tell you he’s in mid-season form re: Oilers so you don’t want to miss it. At 11:25, Andrew Berkshire of Habs Eyes on the Prize begins our preview of NHL teams for 2014-15. We’ll talk Subban, Price and Stanley.

10-1260 on text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. Talk soon.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

179 Responses to "WAIVER MONDAY"

  1. nycoil says:

    Ahhh. Ms. Hepburn. Starting the week off the right way.

    Posted tail end of the last thread as I knew you’d have a new one up soon, but MM won’t be down long. I think Petry and Nikitin come back from injury, Nurse gets sent home, Klef goes back to OKC because they’d rather keep Hunt as 7D and MM comes back and plays games 10-80 and never looks back. Besides, one of these guys (Ference, Nikitin, Petry, etc.) is always going to be hurting so 1 through 8 are going to see a lot of action this year.

  2. Ben says:

    I for one hope that Marincin learns his lesson from all of this, which reads: how DARE you outplay half-a-dozen veterans for 30 games of your rookie season – now go lose some of that weight we told you to gain, McFly!

  3. supernova says:

    It seems like MacT essentially said this.

    Dr. Drai replaced Gagner
    Purcell / Poo – replaced Smyth / Jones

    Pitlick didn’t beat out Uncle Jessey.

    Timing is everything, had he played this well at camp last year maybe they would have waivered Jones.

    Personally would be surprised if Pitlick was claimed, I will continue to cheer hard for him regardless, just really hope it is in Oiler silks.

  4. supernova says:

    Waivers

    Waiver usage can be a fascinating way to see how GMs think and who they value.

    To me it seems like Waiver usage will rise as more and more players are locked up to bigger money and many have long term on it.

    Sometimes you might not want to lose the player but want the spot on your 50 man list.

  5. VanOil says:

    For the cost of a wavier fee I would be interested to see if Landon Ferraro is a better option than Will Acton.

  6. nycoil says:

    King Joffrey Baratheon, I mean William Nyland,,r being sent back to Sweden. Seems Leafs fans thought he deserved his spot on the team, but management decided to send him back to let him develop more.

  7. Marcus Oilerius says:

    VanOil:
    For the cost of a wavier fee I would be interested to see if Landon Ferraro is a better option than Will Acton.

    Acton is pressbox fodder anyway. If it wasn’t for the father-son thing, it wouldn’t be as upsetting. I’d rather Pitlick and Lander get icetime in the minors than sit in the pressbox here.

    Ferraro has shown less than Lander and doesn’t have the same “energy line” game as Pitlick, so I’m not sure it’d be worth the hassle.

  8. Ducey says:

    So, if I’m reading this right, and I think I am, he said ‘look, he’s a pretty good player today and the only reason we’re keeping the other guy is that Pitlick isn’t a center. But if you’re another team who could use a winger, this guy has learned the drill in the AHL and he’s good to go.’ I don’t know if they teach that in GM school but they shouldn’t if they do.

    You really think that another GM is going to make a decision on whether to claim Pitlick based on MacT’s verbal? Most people would understand that the GM is going to say “He is really close, but not quite there yet” out of compassion for the player.

    Is there a list of those on the waiver wire somewhere?

  9. su_dhillon says:

    nycoil,

    Joffrey is no Baratheon!

    On Marincin, I think we need to admit that as much as we like to think they are embracing analytics and using them they still value players very differently then most of us do. Compare the verbal this summer on Jultz to what we have heard about Marincin. Their opinions and our opinions couldn’t be more different so it’s probably time for us to stop being shocked every time they pull these moves. If we were fans of a Lombardi or Jim Nill run team and they did stuff like this we would have reason to be confused, not here.

  10. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Fedun may start the season in San Jose.

  11. Jordan says:

    su_dhillon:
    nycoil,

    Joffrey is no Baratheon!

    Spoiler Alert.

    Joffrey was no Baratheon!

  12. nycoil says:

    Seriously. There should be no spoilers allowed, even though spoilers is spelled with “oilers.”

  13. vinotintazo says:

    Marcus Oilerius:
    Fedun may start the season in San Jose.

    Good for him if he makes it, but he wasn’t gonna make this team with MM, Klef, Nurse, Nikitin, and Fayne here.

  14. Ca$h-Money! says:

    I continue to ask the question:

    Which team do we believe looks at Pitlick and gives him a spot on their NHL roster, given that he doesn’t have a history of PKing, can’t score at the AHL level or the NHL level, and doesn’t fight?

    Keep in mind if they keep Pitlick they need to look at their own bubble NHLers and say “Ya, this guy deserves a shot with our club more than you”.

    He’s good, but asking him to go to the AHL and score at even a .75ppg clip isn’t crazy.

  15. "Steve" For Real, Let's Undulate "Smith" says:

    nycoil,

    “But you let Spoiler in!”

    “The sign says no Spoilers. He’s just one.”

  16. fuzzy muppet says:

    So Columbus signs Johansen for 4 Mill/3 years.

    Edmonton has Schultz for 3.6/1 year.

    Remind me why I’m supposed to believe they know what they are doing?

  17. A'bunadh says:

    nycoil:
    Ahhh. Ms. Hepburn. Starting the week off the right way.

    Posted tail end of the last thread as I knew you’d have a new one up soon, but MM won’t be down long. I think Petry and Nikitin come back from injury, Nurse gets sent home, Klef goes back to OKC because they’d rather keep Hunt as 7D and MM comes back and plays games 10-80 and never looks back. Besides, one of these guys (Ference, Nikitin, Petry, etc.) is always going to be hurting so 1 through 8 are going to see a lot of action this year.

    Curious as to why you think Klefbom gets sent down? Oilers management has been pretty clear about valuing Klefbom above MM. Unless Klefbom is atrocious (doubtful) or gets injured I think he is here to stay. After Eakins comments about Nurse driving the bus in the last Vancouver game I think they are dumb enough to keep him around too.

  18. wintoon says:

    Where is there a listing of players on waivers?

  19. nycoil says:

    A'bunadh,

    If they keep Nurse up after the 9 games then we are in much bigger trouble than previously thought.

  20. nycoil says:

    wintoon,

    Follow Renaud Lavoie on Twitter. He posts them as soon as they get announced.

  21. John Chambers says:

    supernova,

    Correction: Purcell and Pouliot have replaced Smyth and HEMSKY.

    Let’s not forget our strength at RW to begin last season.

  22. nycoil says:

    “Steve” For Real, Let’s Undulate “Smith”,

    Indeed! We can undulate to that, depending on how many pints. The more pints the more undulating.

  23. Deadman Waiting says:

    Cult did a piece yesterday which listed statistics for the entire roster, providing an image table alongside supplying the key only for the defensemen (it was a version of the following missing the middle two columns):

    Guidelines for rating two-way ability by scoring chances +/-

    It’s amazing what you can dig up in two minutes using image search on the search term “site:blogs.edmontonjournal.com” restricting the desired results to black and white. It’s two minutes I don’t want to have to do again next time, so I’ve squirreled away the master table above.

    I think the point was to direct attention to defensemen. A better way to do it would be to change the highlight column to a yellow background colour and print the whole darn chart in its entirety.

    It’s kind of brutal to look at the whole team through the SC lens. Hall and Ebs are barely edging into “above average”. Nuge is firmly average. Most of our defense was “below average”. Smid looked pretty bad on this chart, as much as he played during the Vasa leg of Eakins’ Titanic voyage.

    [The Vasa] was constructed in Stockholm at the navy yard under a contract with private entrepreneurs in 1626–1627 and armed primarily with bronze cannons cast in Stockholm specifically for the ship. It was richly decorated as a symbol of the king’s ambitions for Sweden and himself, and upon completion was one of the most powerfully armed vessels in the world. Vasa was dangerously unstable however, due to too much weight in the upper structure of the hull. Despite this lack of stability she was ordered to sea and foundered only a few minutes after encountering a first wind stronger than a breeze. The order to sail was the result of a combination of factors. The king, who was leading the army in Poland at the time of her maiden voyage, was impatient to see her take up her station as flagship of the reserve squadron at Älvsnabben in the Stockholm Archipelago. At the same time the king’s subordinates lacked the political courage to discuss the ship’s structural problems frankly or to have the maiden voyage postponed. An inquiry was organized by the Swedish Privy Council to find personal responsibility for the disaster, but in the end no one was punished for the fiasco.

    Vast firepower on the wings, hardly any heft at all down the middle. Can you really judge your firepower when the deck begins to sway in the lightest breeze? For all we know, those cannon were the best cannons ever made while Orlando Gibbons reigned as the greatest unrequited virginalist who ever lived.

    He was a virginalist by trade, and his music was unrequited in the opinion of Glenn Gould, who named Gibbons as his favourite composer, notwithstanding his imperfect realization:

    Like Beethoven in his last quartets, or Webern at almost any time, Gibbons is an artist of such intractable commitment that, in the keyboard field, at least, his works work better in one’s memory, or on paper, than they ever can through the intercession of a sounding-board.

    Let’s hope the intercession of actual league play works out better for us this time than last.

    ———

    Image you’re making your favourite stew recipe, the one with ten ingredients. You notice after a while that whenever you use the fresh garlic from your garden instead of the cheap garlic from China that your stew tastes ineffably better.

    While you are pondering this momentous insight, along with faint recollection that just about everything you’ve cook in the past year using the fresh garlic also tastes better, Worf begins to shimmer in a speckled column as he materializes inside your living room.

    “Garlic does not have a Corsi.”

    Well, hello to you, too. Then he shimmers again and returns to space. I guess the 23rd century is far too enlightened to mess around with a garlicky lip-smack WOWY.

  24. John Chambers says:

    I’ll be irate if somebody smart picks up Lander and turns him into a useful depth centre. After his AHL performance last season I think he deserves an extended time in the show. Acton, meanwhile, is at his pinnacle if anything.

  25. Marcus Oilerius says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    So Columbus signs Johansen for 4 Mill/3 years.

    Edmonton has Schultz for 3.6/1 year.

    Remind me why I’m supposed to believe they know what they are doing?

    Ech… that does look bleak. I guess the difference is that Johansen will have a $6m qualifying offer after his deal is over, due to the salary of the third year. Johansen also wasn’t going to be UFA in one season, like Schultz.

  26. nycoil says:

    Marcus Oilerius,

    Schultz isn’t going to be UFA. He’s still RFA. Next year he has arb rights. This was the year the Oilers had all the chips and they got played. How do you think they’re going to do next year?

  27. Ducey says:

    su_dhillon:
    nycoil,

    Joffrey is no Baratheon!

    On Marincin, I think we need to admit that as much as we like to think they are embracing analytics and using them they still value players very differently then most of us do.Compare the verbal this summer on Jultz to what we have heard about Marincin.Their opinions and our opinions couldn’t be more different so it’s probably time for us to stop being shocked every time they pull these moves. If we were fans of a Lombardi or Jim Nill run team and they did stuff like this we would have reason to be confused, not here.

    Its almost like the organization assesses players as individual people, rather than just on box scores and fancy stats. Its almost like they are being held accountable like the rest of us are (well most of us anyway).

    If the organization has a problem with Marincin’s approach to the game/ team
    I think the organization was right to farm him out now. Its is the time to do it. Next year their only option would be to trade him or bench him.

  28. Dipstick says:

    Rishaug just tweeted that all players on waivers cleared.

  29. rich says:

    It would not surprise me to see the Oilers try and pick someone up off waivers today. It’s one of the tools that MacT has not been afraid to use (whether I like whom they’ve picked up or not – Gazdic).

    Said it yesterday, I don’t think at this point that losing Pitlick makes that big of a difference. Could also say that draft pedigree means nothing w/out results – if that’s what they perceive is an issue.

    After having the chance to read thru many other of the comments posted here in the last 24 hours since the surprise announcement about Marincin, I think Yeti and Woodguy have said it best – they’ve created even more uncertainty in an area that was not needed.

    There’s already a significant amount of it on defense based on the decisions make this summer (Petry likely not here long-haul, Schultz over-valuing himself). Yes, they signed Fayne (good) and Nikitin (ok) but w/one injury, you now have and 3 d-men on the roster w/less than 20 NHL games on their resume.

    Ganted, Marincin only has 44, but he showed well.

    All to prove a point that players are going to train the way the organization tells them or else. Good luck with that defense early on – hope it doesn’t blow up in your face or you’re going to be searching for a new coach sooner than you want.

  30. Melman says:

    nycoil,

    what if he is playing really well by game 9 and the team is .500+ – do you still send him down?

  31. Dipstick says:

    Now MacT sits in an enviable position. If an upgrade for 4C position comes available, he can claim and send Acton down. His at-risk assets have already cleared.

  32. A'bunadh says:

    nycoil:
    A’bunadh,

    If they keep Nurse up after the 9 games then we are in much bigger trouble than previously thought.

    Agreed. That being said, as chaotic as Nurse is I do like his puck skating ability and don’t think he would be out of place as badly as some think. Makes zero sense to keep him this year though but watch it happen. Still not sure why you think Klef gets sent down?

  33. Profit says:

    Dipstick:
    Now MacT sits in an enviable position.If an upgrade for 4C position comes available, he can claim and send Acton down.His at-risk assets have already cleared.

    That’s exactly right. And by putting through the players a day early teams were waiting to see if “better” options shook free today, thus reducing the risk that another GM would claim Pitlick et al.

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

  34. Dipstick says:

    Profit,

    I have a dream. MacTiavelli.

  35. nycoil says:

    Melman,

    I would, yes. Take the Pietrangelo approach with him. Give him a taste of what is needed at this level, send him back where he knows what he needs to do. Playing well for 9 games isn’t the same as playing well for 82, and he could grow into his frame a bit more, still. We’ve seen this organization rush too many players already. Having a teenager play D in the NHL isn’t that sensible, no matter how good he may be.

    A’bunadh,

    He may not, depending on injuries. I think that Petry and Nikitin will be back soon and they should send Nurse back. Based on play/merit Hunt ought to, but if he’s going to be stuck in the press box I’d rather it be him than Klefa or Marincin.
    I just think Marincin gets called up fairly soon, at who’s expense? If Klefa struggles a bit, suspect they swap places. If there are additional injuries (likely at some point), then he may stay.

  36. just Keep Calm and Corsi On says:

    nycoil:
    wintoon,

    Follow Renaud Lavoie on Twitter. He posts them as soon as they get announced.

    Another good source, which also catches signings and other NHL news, is tsn’s NHL twitter page.

    https://twitter.com/TSN_Sports/lists/nhl

  37. nycoil says:

    Profit: That’s exactly right. And by putting through the players a day early teams were waiting to see if “better” options shook free today, thus reducing the risk that another GM would claim Pitlick et al.

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

    Did he say that? Music! Nice to find an acorn once in a while. Now where are my glasses.
    The plan really ought to be Nurse to OHL after game 9, Marincin up in his place. Think that’s been the plan all along and the only question would be if Klefa or Martin would win the last spot. Hunt is #7 when Nikitin and Petry come back. They don’t want either of the young studs being in the press box.

  38. knighttown says:

    A few things:

    1. When you’re looking at progress it’s nice to break it down into manageable bites. Last year, the “step forward” if you will was that the Oilers were pretty good/dominant against the bottom 10 teams in the NHL. They were completely awful against the good teams but for this team that makes a tonne of sense. They haven’t been able to match up against the big and toughs in forever and so, get a lot of guaranteed losses in this nasty conference with St. Louis, LA, SJ and Anaheim.

    I think the logical next step is to either become an excellent home team due to matchups orto become sorta bad against the NHLs monsters. I’ll select the latter because of the move to more veteran strength. I’m not a size-king but I think they’ll push their Corsi up to 45+ and win a few they should lose.

    2. Hunter, I’ll take 83 points in your pool.

    3. Speaking of pools, my draft is tonight. Anyone have any analytics based work done on fantasy hockey? For instance, Hall’s IPP of what, nearly 1, seems really likely to regress. Looking for some guys to target.

    4. Marincin. The most alarming thing for me about this whole thing is LT’s reaction. You tend to be a witch on these things and I’m wondering if you’re feeling like there’s a bit of Peckham in this situation. Is the theory really that the Oilers asked him to gain weight, he did, and now he gets punished. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. We know Eakins is a fitness nut. Isn’t it more likely he’s just out-of-shape?

    As a coach you only have one or two ways to punish a guy and if they are truly disappointed I’d absolutely pull the only lever left to me which is AHL (or press box I guess). I see it as similar to the Yakupov benchings. Eakins and MacT have made their move and now its up to Marty to respond.

  39. danieldelair says:

    Zac Dalpe?

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=113855

    6’1, 195. 24 years old 96 GP: 9-8-17

  40. Ducey says:

    nycoil: Renaud Lavoie

    He has Ryan Hamilton (no surprise) going on waivers along with – Zach Boychuk from CAR? What the hell is up with that?? The guy had more than a Point a game last year. That has to be a mistake.

    https://twitter.com/renlavoietva/status/519159759535362049

    Also WIN put Budaj on waivers.

    Some weird stuff going on here.

  41. Profit says:

    nycoil: Did he say that? Music! Nice to find an acorn once in a while. Now where are my glasses.
    The plan really ought to be Nurse to OHL after game 9, Marincin up in his place. Think that’s been the plan all along and the only question would be if Klefa or Martin would win the last spot. Hunt is #7 when Nikitin and Petry come back. They don’t want either of the young studs being in the press box.

    Yup:

    Bob Stauffer @Bob_Stauffer
    I would be very surprised if Martin Marincin isn’t back in Edmonton by at least the 10 game mark

  42. TeeVee says:

    Dipstick:
    Rishaug just tweeted that all players on waivers cleared.

    Lander is probably shivering in a corner with his thumb in his mouth about now.

    This was his chance.

  43. Ducey says:

    danieldelair:
    Zac Dalpe?

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=113855

    6’1, 195. 24 years old 96 GP: 9-8-17

    Yeah, he would be an upgrade on Acton – I think. Is he a true C?

  44. nycoil says:

    TeeVee,

    Lander will be back up later this year when Acton gets sent down. He’ll have another chance.

  45. Dipstick says:

    TeeVee: Lander is probably shivering in a corner with his thumb in his mouth about now.

    This was his chance.

    I think that something is not right with Lander. In his first stint with the club, even if he didn’t score, he pissed off some guys every game. None of that this pre-season. I hope that he finds his game in OKC. He is better than he showed.

  46. Ducey says:

    TeeVee: Lander is probably shivering in a corner with his thumb in his mouth about now.

    This was his chance.

    If his thumb wasn’t stuck somewhere else for most of the preseason, he wouldn’t have had to worry.

    He is probably trying to figure out how to head back to Europe. You have to figure he will be following the Hartikanen/ Horak train out of the organization at the end of the year.

  47. danieldelair says:

    Ducey,

    THN has him as RW but with “the versatility to play center and wing effectively.”

    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?6662

    As far as I can tell, centre is his natural position

  48. nycoil says:

    Ducey,

    Yeah, Boychuk is on waivers a lot. He was put on waivers no less than four times during the 2012-2013 season and no one claimed him.

    He’s a small, skilled winger, sound familiar? 5’10” 185lbs. Scored 36 goals last year in the AHL, but he’s only gotten brief cups of coffee with Carolina. I can’t see the Oilers claiming him at this stage to take Hendricks/Joensuu’s spot on the 4th line. Classic case of a tweener caught in the numbers game, I think,

  49. Hammers says:

    nycoil: Marcus Oilerius, Schultz isn’t going to be UFA. He’s still RFA. Next year he has arb rights. This was the year the Oilers had all the chips and they got played. How do you think they’re going to do next year?

    Unless Schultz shits the bed

  50. rickithebear says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    So Columbus signs Johansen for 4 Mill/3 years.

    Edmonton has Schultz for 3.6/1 year.

    Remind me why I’m supposed to believe they know what they are doing?

    J. schultz had an EVGA of 3.31 over the last 2 seasons.

    We look at the 360 most minutes forwards since lockout.

    these are the forwards that generated enoug GF to Break even or outscore.
    Crosby 3.80
    Kunitz 3.79
    Dupuis 3.72
    Toews 3.67
    Getzlaf 3.62
    Perry 3.59
    Benn 3.41
    Seguin 3.39
    Burns 3.32
    9 of 360 forward can break even or outscore with his defence!

    Marincin 2.00 EVGA/60 1st comp
    250 of 360 forwards can outscore with his defence.

    Nikitin 1.82 EVGA/60 2nd comp
    284 of 360 forwards can outscore.

    Fayne 1.80 EVGA/60 2nd comp
    286 of 360 fwds

    Petry
    Facing 1st comp with functional goalies
    2.21 evga/60
    196 of 360 fwds

    Ference:
    till pec tear
    2.16 EVGA/60 1st/2nd comp
    205 of 360 fwds

    Klefbom 3.69 EVGA/60 but worst ZS in league.
    only the pit line outscores.

    What F…………….. world do you sign JS defence long term!

  51. Lois Lowe says:

    Ah, Audrey Hepburn. She was my first live-in girlfriend’s idol. They have some *ahem* facial similarities so they two will always be inextricably linked in my mind.

    As for the roster, I read that MacT quote on Pitlick as an indictment of the player’s maturity prior to this season. I think the message is that Tyler has failed to capitalize on his opportunities because he didn’t want to “be a professional” and now he has to clear waivers and hope he can stick later in the season. I’m pretty bearish on Pitlick, he’s shown virtually nothing in his time in the organization that screams value.

  52. Ducey says:

    nycoil:
    Ducey,

    Yeah, Boychuk is on waivers a lot. He was put on waivers no less than four times during the 2012-2013 season and no one claimed him.

    He’s a small, skilled winger, sound familiar? 5’10″ 185lbs. Scored 36 goals last year in the AHL, but he’s only gotten brief cups of coffee with Carolina. I can’t see the Oilers claiming him at this stage to take Hendricks/Joensuu’s spot on the 4th line. Classic case of a tweener caught in the numbers game, I think,

    Thanks. I looked at his draft position and nice stats and thought he was still a prospect of note. Seems the Oilers could claim him and put him on the farm, though. They have no one to call up in the event of an injury to one of their scoring wingers.

  53. Hammers says:

    McT must be happy that the 4 he waived all cleared but I bet Nelson maybe the happiest coach in the AHL . Getting MM , Lander & Pitlick along with Khairi & Yakimov not forgetting Pinzotto . There going to have a really good team in Okl . LT may be a lot to ask but would love to see your breakdown on Nelsons squad .

  54. ChiliChunk says:

    nycoil:
    Ducey,

    Yeah, Boychuk is on waivers a lot. He was put on waivers no less than four times during the 2012-2013 season and no one claimed him.

    He’s a small, skilled winger, sound familiar? 5’10″ 185lbs. Scored 36 goals last year in the AHL, but he’s only gotten brief cups of coffee with Carolina. I can’t see the Oilers claiming him at this stage to take Hendricks/Joensuu’s spot on the 4th line. Classic case of a tweener caught in the numbers game, I think,

    Well actually both Pitt and Nash claimed him and gave him a look but otherwise I think you are bang on.

    From hockeydb:

    Player trades [notes]
    2013-Jan-31 Claimed off waivers by Pittsburgh Penguins from Carolina Hurricanes
    2013-Mar-05 Claimed off waivers by Nashville Predators from Pittsburgh Penguins
    2013-Mar-21 Claimed off waivers by Carolina Hurricanes from Nashville Predators

  55. nycoil says:

    Hammers,

    Schultz shat the bed last year and he got twice the money this year. So, again I ask, what do you think?

  56. nycoil says:

    ChiliChunk,

    Thanks. I guess I missed that middle bit. I saw he started with Carolina and wound up still with Carolina so it didn’t occur to me he’d gotten passed around like that first. My apologies.

  57. Melman says:

    nycoil,

    Maybe the line of thinking went something like this:

    a) Klefbom’s play improved as he played more games up at the NHL last year, and I recall him saying that he felt because the play in the NHL is more structured it was better suited to his game. He had a ton of OZ starts and so for arguments sake, let say the coaches agree that he’s better off playing/developing here than in OKC and as pre-season finished he and MM were in the same range in terms of play (let’s avoid relying 100% on Corgi’s as evidence on that since the coaches/GM don’t base all their decisions on that metric);

    b) they want to give Nurse his 9 and have him around the club for a while before he goes back down. Pietrangelo’s 9 games before he went back were really spread out before he went back (they may see value in taking a similar approach); and

    c) MM got better during TC/Pre-season, but still was behind where he finished last year.

    So solution =

    1) MM goes down where: MM can get major minutes and tune up his game (and perhaps there was a message being sent as well);

    2) See whether Klef can hold his own. If he can’t and needs to go back down there will be a clearer picture of what he needs to work on – they’ll get a better read on that from regular season play vs. pre-season;

    3) give Nurse his 9 game look;

    4) reward Hunt for his play and not be as concerned that he is sitting in the press box compared to MM sitting upstairs;

    5) see how long it takes for NN to come back and then shuffle the deck as warranted.

    I get that points in Oct. count as much as points in March, but a team also has to have an eye to planning team and player development over the entire season. Despite the cliche’s, you can’t just think 1 game at a time.

    Until NN is back and Nurse gets to his 9 they can go:

    Petry-Fayne
    Klef-Ference
    Nurse-Schultz
    (or some variation of that)

  58. nycoil says:

    Melman,

    Yes, I agree. That’s what I’ve been trying to say. I think there is too much anger over this decision.

    From the last thread, a couple of times.
    “So let’s say Nikitin comes back for game 2 or 3 and Petry is ready. Klefbom gets sent down.
    Nikitin-Fayne
    Nurse-Petry
    Schutz-Ference
    Hunt
    After game 9, Nurse gets sent home.
    Marincin gets another shot at that point to come up.”

    Maybe Klef doesn’t get sent down. Maybe he sticks. I don’t know. But I think the plan is after game 9 to have MM replace Nurse.

  59. admiralmark says:

    Has Pitlick been snagged off of waivers yet? We could use the spot on the 50 Man pro contract list.

    Sure glad we got Acton to replace Pitlick as a prospect. Much bigger upside there. PLUS he’s a Center?! Albeit the 5th Center but still!

    Also, it’s always nice to have a feel good story about a father and son on the same team. Makes up for the Tkachev debacle.

    I also think its important to keep your assistant coach happy when it comes to making player asset management decisions.

    Having said all that if I was Calgary i might take a flyer on that Pitlick kid.. i think there’s potential he plays more NHL games then that Acton kid.

  60. nycoil says:

    admiralmark,

    All the players on waivers yesterday cleared this morning.

  61. Lowetide says:

    test

  62. TheOtherJohn says:

    When was the last Oiler player claimed of waivers?

    Am sure it was somebody valuable. Just do not remember

  63. Ducey says:

    admiralmark,

    The 50 contract list is at 47. It will be at 46 if they return Nurse to junior before 10 games.

  64. BDH says:

    “Maybe the line of thinking went something like this:

    a) Klefbom’s play improved as he played more games up at the NHL last year, and I recall him saying that he felt because the play in the NHL is more structured it was better suited to his game. He had a ton of OZ starts and so for arguments sake, let say the coaches agree that he’s better off playing/developing here than in OKC and as pre-season finished he and MM were in the same range in terms of play (let’s avoid relying 100% on Corgi’s as evidence on that since the coaches/GM don’t base all their decisions on that metric);

    b) they want to give Nurse his 9 and have him around the club for a while before he goes back down. Pietrangelo’s 9 games before he went back were really spread out before he went back (they may see value in taking a similar approach); and

    c) MM got better during TC/Pre-season, but still was behind where he finished last year.

    So solution =

    1) MM goes down where: MM can get major minutes and tune up his game (and perhaps there was a message being sent as well);

    2) See whether Klef can hold his own. If he can’t and needs to go back down there will be a clearer picture of what he needs to work on – they’ll get a better read on that from regular season play vs. pre-season;

    3) give Nurse his 9 game look;

    4) reward Hunt for his play and not be as concerned that he is sitting in the press box compared to MM sitting upstairs;

    5) see how long it takes for NN to come back and then shuffle the deck as warranted.

    I get that points in Oct. count as much as points in March, but a team also has to have an eye to planning team and player development over the entire season. Despite the cliche’s, you can’t just think 1 game at a time.”

    Sweet Jebus, finally some sanity around here

  65. nycoil says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    I remember Ray Whitney back in the day. That one hurt.

  66. Dipstick says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    When was the last Oiler player claimed of waivers?

    Am sure it was somebody valuable. Just do not remember

    Taylor Chorney, who was later reclaimed when the club that claimed him put him back on waivers. IIRC.

  67. nycoil says:

    The Twin Peaks thing is official, FYI.

  68. PhrankLee says:

    I don’t remember an opening night with as much tension as this one. Since 1979. Maybe 89/90? (thank you Billy!) We also get the added angst of seeing the guy we passed over to take Leon. If Bennett, who looks as cold as a new razor blade, stabs us in the heart there will be panic. It’s going to be monkey shines as well with Blowhard, Bold Moves and Six Rings. I hope anyway.

  69. russ99 says:

    I’m not going to fret about the opening day roster.

    Either it works and the team will play well and we’ll be happy, or it goes off the rails and Ramsey is our head coach before mid-November.

    But at some time MacT is going to have to pay for some of these sketchy decisions too.

  70. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Hammers: Unless Schultz shits the bed

    Arguably he already did last year. Under 0.5ppg, awful +/-, bad fancy stats…

  71. delooper says:

    Opening night has tension? Edmonton and Calgary are sharing more players and management than ever before. They’re both bottom-dwellers who picked at near the same time. Maybe if Edmonton and Calgary were topped-rank AHL clubs we could spin this as tension. I see some clubs who would like to not be awful.

  72. "Frank The Dog" says:

    With all the level headed arguments and observations I’ve seen since yesterday, I have no problem with Marincin being rotated out for the time being. There is very little chance that one of Nurse being sent down, someone starts playing poorly, or someone getting injured doesn’t happen. How nice to have someone like MM to call upon, and how much better to be a #1D in OKC than a Press Box occupant in Edmonton, except of course for the pay cut.

  73. slopitch says:

    I was hoping RJo would get a higher number possibly freeing up Anisimov. Oh well.

  74. JAG-041 says:

    weren’t they thinking of trying to trade for Ashton a few months ago?
    If he goes on waivers I would expect MacT would be one interested

  75. JAG-041 says:

    Also, I’d hate to see Pitlick go
    he’s had his ups and downs but I saw him play a few times in Hamilton against the Bulldogs (sorry, I live in Toronto, in the cursed centre of Canada *spits on the ground*) and he was really fun to watch. Now, that he’s turned a corner and seems to really be able to play at this level he’s one of the players I’m really rooting for.

  76. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    test

    The war of 1812.

    Valparaiso.

    Robert McNamara.

    The Hypotenuse.

    84 grams.

    True.

    Did I pass?

  77. RexLibris says:

    nycoil:
    The Twin Peaks thing is official, FYI.

    Link?

    Kyle McLachlan returning? More importantly, Sherilyn Fenn? Man, LT might go down to one post a day if that happens. Or three posts just so he can use some old-timey SF photos.

  78. RexLibris says:

    What’s more strange than having an Oilers fan contribute to a Flames season roundtable?

    http://flamesnation.ca/2014/10/6/2014-15-season-preview-roundtable

    When that Oilers fan is the most optimistic of any of the contributors.

    Curiouser and curiouser.

  79. Woodguy says:

    Profit,

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

    Not if they are 3-6-1 by that time.

    Even Bob said the Oilers made a mistake keeping Klef over Marincin on his show about 10 minutes ago.

  80. godot10 says:

    vinotintazo: Good for him if he makes it, but he wasn’t gonna make this team with MM, Klef, Nurse, Nikitin, and Fayne here.

    Fedun was clearly a better defensemen than Hunt in OKC last year. And Hunt made the Oilers.
    Lander was clearly a better centre forever than the coach’s son. And the coach’s son made the Oilers.

  81. ashley says:

    Waiver anxiety is an Oiler trait. I’m not sure other fanbases get into the waiver wire like we do.

    Remember Deslauriers up and down on waivers and everyone holding their breath. And Omark.

    These are end of the roster players. Ryan Jones territory.

    I’m not sure how good a deal it is to get them for free when lots of this player type are available for cheap in free agency, sometimes part way into the season.

    The part of the story that keeps GM’s from throwing around claims is that someone else’s throw-away has to be placed on the NHL roster. Someone who worked hard in training camp and showed similiar talent (give or take) has to go.

    It’s a gamble, and can be unsettling in an otherwise positive environment looking forward to a new season. A GM would have to be sure about the player, and sure about the need.

  82. su_dhillon says:

    Woodguy:
    Profit,

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

    Not if they are 3-6-1 by that time.

    Even Bob said the Oilers made a mistake keeping Klef over Marincin on his show about 10 minutes ago.

    Even losing 1 game to teach MM a lesson on sideburn manicuring is something this team can’t afford. If they were to start 0-2 how quickly does the panic button get hit?

  83. jake70 says:

    ashley: Waiver anxiety is an Oiler trait. I’m not sure other fanbases get into the waiver wire like we do.Remember Deslauriers up and down on waivers and everyone holding their breath. And Omark.These are end of the roster players. Ryan Jones territory. I’m not sure how good a deal it is to get them for free when lots of this player type are available for cheap in free agency, sometimes part way into the season. The part of the story that keeps GM’s from throwing around claims is that someone else’s throw-away has to be placed on the NHL roster. Someone who worked hard in training camp and showed similiar talent (give or take) has to go. It’s a gamble, and can be unsettling in an otherwise positive environment looking forward to a new season. A GM would have to be sure about the player, and sure about the need.

    Good post. DMW posted a while back on the potential pitfalls of claiming players off the wire. Not as simple as it may seem.

  84. "Frank The Dog" says:

    su_dhillon: Even losing 1 game to teach MM a lesson on sideburn manicuring is something this team can’t afford.If they were to start 0-2 how quickly does the panic button get hit?

    Marincin started slow, ended better but below his end of season form. For as little info as we have, that may be due to any number of things but equally could be that he was not in as good shape when he turned up at TC as his presumed competitors. MM wasn’t waived, he wasn’t traded, he wasn’t released, he was given a 90% pay cut for the games he is down. Strong message not to turn up less in shape than the others. Not a permanent demotion, learn the lesson, keep the right attitude, make it a short rotation.

  85. vinotintazo says:

    godot10: Fedun was clearly a better defensemen than Hunt in OKC last year.And Hunt made the Oilers.
    Lander was clearly a better centre forever than the coach’s son.And the coach’s son made the Oilers.

    oilers want a PP defensement as a #7, so no, Fedun is not it. Don’t get me wrong I like the guy. (He was just assigned to AHL as of now).

    I don’t buy that Acton is here because of Keith, W. Acton is liked by Eakins, and hes a #14 foward, he will see the pressbox a lot, they wanted a Centre, that is all.

    I’m not a fan of Acton, but he outplayed Lander, and it wasn’t even close.

    At least hes willing to fight

  86. godot10 says:

    Profit: Yup:

    Bob Stauffer @Bob_Stauffer
    I would be very surprised if Martin Marincin isn’t back in Edmonton by at least the 10 game mark

    The whole summer PR campaign to rehabilitate the reputation of Eakins and “bold” MacT as competent decision makers eviscerated before game 1, and damage control from Kingsway is already being tweeted out by Stauffer.

    Do you think Tyler e-mailed some of Marincin’s advanced stats from last year to Dallas last night?

  87. godot10 says:

    TeeVee: Lander is probably shivering in a corner with his thumb in his mouth about now.

    This was his chance.

    The Oilers have to qualify him at $660K (+10% on $600K I think) next spring or he is a free man, so all is not lost from his perspective. He is getting paid in OKC this year. Playing for Todd is probably much more fun and rewarding than playing for Dallas.

  88. nycoil says:

    Speaking of Fedun:
    @SanJoseSharks
    #SJSharks assign defenseman Taylor Fedun to the @WorcesterSharks. http://go.sjsharks.com/Cl6Eu

  89. book¡je says:

    godot10: The Oilers have to qualify him at $660K (+10% on $600K I think) next spring or he is a free man, so all is not lost from his perspective.He is getting paid in OKC this year.Playing for Todd is probably much more fun and rewarding than playing for Dallas.

    I think he would have been happy to have been claimed by Dallas as it would be an opportunity for a new start¡

  90. wheatnoil says:

    book¡je: I think he would have been happy to have been claimed by Dallas as it would be an opportunity for a new start¡

    Maybe if Lander had played better for Dallas he would’ve got claimed by Dallas. It’s too bad because if he played well for Dallas, maybe we could get that Eakin kid from Dallas to play for Dallas Eakins, since Eakin might be a better fit for Dallas’ team than he is for Dallas’ team.

  91. nycoil says:

    Rangers moved out two contracts for one in the trade with Florida. Now they can sign Anthony Duclair. The guy looks like he’s going to be a very good one for the Rangers.

  92. Hammers says:

    Marcus Oilerius: Arguably he already did last year. Under 0.5ppg, awful +/-, bad fancy stats…

    Guess I’m old school as in do it once shame on you do it twice shame on me . Can McT and the management group let it happen twice and still say he has potential for a Norris . I know there all safe with Katz but that doesn’t make them stupid . Schultz had better have a great year and if he does this years $$$$ won’t be talked about .

  93. book¡je says:

    Woodguy:
    Profit,

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

    Not if they are 3-6-1 by that time.

    Even Bob said the Oilers made a mistake keeping Klef over Marincin on his show about 10 minutes ago.

    I am ok with it if they noted to MM when he went down that it was for 2-3 games to get him playing 30 minutes a game and get his conditioning up. I think the suggestion that it was punishment for his not staying in Edmonton is probably a pretty likely scenario. I honestly don’t know if its a reasonable move or not. I know one thing, if my employer paid me more than $500,000 and wanted me to spend my summer in Kentucky or Japan or someone that is not my home, but is not a warzone or something, I would suck it up and go there.

  94. book¡je says:

    wheatnoil: Maybe if Lander had played better for Dallas he would’ve got claimed by Dallas. It’s too bad because if he played well for Dallas, maybe we could get that Eakin kid from Dallas to play for Dallas Eakins, since Eakin might be a better fit for Dallas’ team than he is for Dallas’ team.

    Exactly – I tried drafting one of those earlier this summer when some Eakin Eakins stuff was going on when Dallas was in Dallas visiting – but never got it to work, so – nicely done!

  95. Ducey says:

    godot10: Fedun was clearly a better defensemen than Hunt in OKC last year.And Hunt made the Oilers.
    Lander was clearly a better centre forever than the coach’s son.And the coach’s son made the Oilers.

    Fedun 65 10 28 38
    Hunt 66 11 39 50

    Yes. Fedun was CLEARLY superior.

    As for Lander, did you watch his audition last season and in the preseason? Brutal. Anyone that was looking at the situation objectively (and that’s not you) would agree than Acton outplayed Lander this preseason.

    Anyway, you are working up quite the lather over two guys who will be eating popcorn most of the time.

  96. Lois Lowe says:

    godot10,

    I feel like you’ve crossed over and are now caricaturing yourself. This is beyond satire.

  97. godot10 says:

    book¡je: I am ok with it if they noted to MM when he went down that it was for 2-3 games to get him playing 30 minutes a game and get his conditioning up.I think the suggestion that it was punishment for his not staying in Edmonton is probably a pretty likely scenario.I honestly don’t know if its a reasonable move or not.I know one thing, if my employer paid me more than $500,000 and wanted me to spend my summer in Kentucky or Japan or someone that is not my home, but is not a warzone or something, I would suck it up and go there.

    Marincin is on his entry level deal. He is not being paid (well) in OKC. $68K vs. $680K in the NHL. Getting you salary cut 90% because your boss is an idiot. How will that make you feel about your boss?

  98. Numenius says:

    Staples claims that while MM’s Corsi was better than Klefbom’s last year, Klefbom was slightly ahead in contribution to scoring chance +/-.

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/10/06/dallas-eakins-on-corsi-an-individual-player-does-not-have-a-corsi/

    I’m not sure what to make of that stat, but I’m skeptical. I’d definitely have to hear how they determine what a “scoring chance” is and how one “contributes” to it. Sounds pretty subjective and open to statistician bias. It certainly seems fishy if it shows that Schultz was the best of the D last year in contributing to scoring chances +/-, knowing his abysmal Corsi.

    Anyone know anything about this?

  99. nycoil says:

    People will try to justify it however they want. I’m not going to argue with Godot (if he ever shows up in the end, whoever he may be) about Eakins.

    The Oilers are using ice-time and roster spots to give out the carrot and the stick.

    Evidence 1: Yakupov last year. Gets singled out. He got the stick in a big way.
    Evidence 2: Nurse this year. Kid came in working hard after a good year in SSM. They wanted to find a way to reward him. Give him his 9 games. The carrot.
    Evidence 3: Klefbom came into camp looking much more polished than he did last year. Let him stay up. The carrot.
    Evidence 4: Lander didn’t step up in camp the way the Oilers wanted. Send him down again. The stick.
    Evidence 5: Acton and Joensuu looked like they came to camp to battle for a spot. They stay up. The carrot.
    Evidence 6: Gernat and Musil were called out by MacT earlier this year as needing to step up this year in camp. They did not and were among the first cuts. The stick.
    Evidence 7: Chase turned up with terrific fitness scores and a big season with Calgary that was much better than his draft rank indicated. He gets a contract and a game on the top line. The carrot.
    Evidence 8: Draisaitl spent the entire summer in Edmonton working out under the supervision of the Oilers, rooming with Yak, doing everything that was asked of him. He gets to play with Yak on line 2 whether he earned it by merit on the ice or not. The carrot.
    Evidence 9: Marincin came into camp a bit sluggish after a season spent at home (let’s not get into who’s fault it is about the weight or whatever), which was against the Oilers’ wishes. He loses the battle vs. Klefbom and gets sent down. The stick.

    Could you argue that MacT and Eakins are going about things all wrong and have their blinders on? Yes. Can you see a certain “logic” to what they are enforcing around these parts, yes. You may or may not like it, but they seem hell bent on running things in this slightly twisted, surrealist (if you will, as we go back to Godot again) “meritocracy.”

  100. Profit says:

    Woodguy:
    Profit,

    That and Stauffer’s post on twitter that MM would be back within 10 games shows that the collective explosion on the Oilogosphere was likely unwarranted.

    Not if they are 3-6-1 by that time.

    Even Bob said the Oilers made a mistake keeping Klef over Marincin on his show about 10 minutes ago.

    To be clear, I think that MM should be on the team.

    However, if you think he makes the difference between 3-6-1 and 6-3-1 I don’t know what to tell you.

  101. RexLibris says:

    For all of us commenters here, and those of us who were aghast at the demotion of Marincin yesterday: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/06/internet-hyperbole-charlie-brooker

  102. Woodguy says:

    In regards to Klefbom outplaying Marincin at camp this post is very, very good at explainng the pitchfork crowd:

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=62821

    Here’s a few paragraphs that are just so, so good:

    What we can clearly see here is that outside of the 1st game where the Oilers stacked their home team and the Flames stacked their Home team Marincin completely dominated Klefbom. I mean annihilated him. If we go so far as to take the 1st game for both of them away then the separation between the players is even greater.

    Klefbom is a -6 in games where the Oilers were a +10 and Marincin is a +21 in games where the Oilers were a +8. We’re talking about a big swing here. And if we go back into last year’s date then the facts present themselves pretty clearly.

    The Oilers sent the wrong man down.

    But, hey hold on here. Corsi isn’t the be all and end all of statistics. There are more things going on here.

    It’s true. There are.

    Marincin played mostly with Keith Aulie and on his off-side while Klefbom skated with far superior players. Despite the millstone around his neck Martin Marincin managed to completely outplay Klefbom by fancy stats AND more traditional ones too.

    You see, after Justin Schultz, Marincin had the next highest points by a defender in the Oilers’ preseason. He had 2 assists which tied him with Brad Hunt for that 2nd spot on the scoring list. Oscar Klefbom? 0 points.

    But it’s not just about points. Sometimes you are pushing the attack but the bounces just don’t go your way. Klefbom played 4 games and we shouldn’t be too worried if a Defenseman goes 4 games without a point if they’re contributing to the attack and it just isn’t going their way.

    No, it’s not the points that concern me, it’s the fact that in 4 games played Klefbom managed just 5 shots on goal.

    Marincin? Martin Marincin generated 17 shots in 6 games as per the Oilers themselves. It’s actually the highest number of shots by any player in the Oilers organization during preseason. Not just by a defenseman either. The highest number of shots, period.

  103. vinotintazo says:

    nycoil,

    I agree with most of this, but did Klefbom stay in Edmonton for the summer?

  104. AZOIL says:

    I agree with NYCOIL on MM, it is what it is.

    MM is better now than Klef now but I think they want to see what they have in all three no? For those who know better, don’t we need to trade one of these three LHD anyway? We have Nurse, Klef, and MM all as LHD right? Isn’t that a bit of a logjam on the left? So maybe they want to see what they have in Nurse at the NHL level for 9 games and like NYCOIL said are rewarding those who worked harder.

    If you all had to trade one of Nurse, Klef, or Marincin who woul it be?

  105. nycoil says:

    Woodguy,

    That’s a nice summary. I get why you are mad. I agree Marincin shouldn’t have been sent down, but this is the Oilers. This is what they do. I’m saying it isn’t the end of the world; they have done a lot worse in the past and they will continue to get in their own way until eventually they stop. Their priority at the moment is not winning every game they can. It’s putting their stamp on the team.

  106. Woodguy says:

    ashley,

    Remember Deslauriers up and down on waivers and everyone holding their breath

    The only person holding their breath on that one was Tambellini.

    We screamed at him for his three headed goalie monster.

  107. nycoil says:

    vinotintazo,

    He did not. He stayed in Sweden. There is a bias in favour of him. MacT saw him good in Sweden and believed he was NHL ready last fall, remember? He was wrong then, but the man crush definitely remains on that one.

  108. Dipstick says:

    Woodguy,

    I wonder if Dellow is using the same metrics that Arch noted at Hockeybuzz? Either he saw something different with regard to Marincin vs. Klefbom, or they ignored what he saw.

  109. Woodguy says:

    su_dhillon: Even losing 1 game to teach MM a lesson on sideburn manicuring is something this team can’t afford.If they were to start 0-2 how quickly does the panic button get hit?

    Truth.

    Here’s the thing about the first 4 games.

    Oct 9 – CAL
    Oct 11 @VAN
    Oct 14 @LAK
    Oct 15 @ARI

    They should beat CAL, they play the night before, even without an ideal Dcorps.

    VAN will be very tough and an optimal Dcorps could be the difference between a win and a loss.

    LAK loss

    ARI – scheduled loss. Its the dreaded 3rd in 4 nights and a back to back, but it is a back to back and Dave Tippett teams grind.

    They need to mazimize their chances for the VAN and ARI game and having Andrew Ference anywhere in the top 4 is the opposite of maximizing the roster.

    Petry will be playing his first game vs CAL and cannot be counted on to be effective.

    The can easily start 1-3-0 and if you ice Actual NHL Dmen the can start 3-1-0

    The difference between 8th and 11th last year was 3 points.

    You can’t fuck around, at all and the Oilers are fucking around in the name of culture, not results or what is best for winning actual hockey games.

  110. spoiler says:

    su_dhillon: Even losing 1 game to teach MM a lesson on sideburn manicuring is something this team can’t afford.If they were to start 0-2 how quickly does the panic button get hit?

    On this site? Somewhere round about the halfway mark of the first period of game 1.

  111. su_dhillon says:

    “Frank The Dog”: Marincin started slow, ended better but below his end of season form. For as little info as we have, that may be due to any number of things but equally could be that he was not in as good shape when he turned up at TC as his presumed competitors. MM wasn’t waived, he wasn’t traded, he wasn’t released, he was given a 90% pay cut for the games he is down. Strong message not to turn up less in shape than the others. Not a permanent demotion, learn the lesson, keep the right attitude, make it a short rotation.

    I’m not big on sending messages because I’m not sure how often this type of thing actually works. What I do know is that it is inarguable that Marincin was one of the Oilers top 3 defencemen in the games he played last year and that this team has a poor history in valuing defencemen and deciding who should stay and who should go.

    Also in terms of sending a message, there is also a chance he takes the demotion too hard and spends the year trying to get himself out of it. Maybe not a great chance but these sending a message moments aren’t foolproof.

  112. Halfwise says:

    nycoil,

    One of our clients only uses the stick on us, never a carrot.

    Of course, he denies that he’s being unfair. He calls the stick “a hard carrot”.

    Priceless, and most days I’d like to shoot him.

    Yesterday’s drama has subsided in Oilerville, the guys have all cleared waivers, and I can’t wait for the puck to drop. Marincin will be back as soon as it’s clear they need him.

  113. nycoil says:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11629773/new-nba-biological-testing-less-michael-lewis-more-george-orwell

    Interesting read on where sports may be going (biometrics, home monitoring, sleep monitoring, etc.)

  114. Jujhar says:

    Dipstick: Woodguy, I wonder if Dellow is using the same metrics that Arch noted at Hockeybuzz? Either he saw something different with regard to Marincin vs. Klefbom, or they ignored what he saw.

    I think you are overestimating how much influence Dellow is going to have on this roster.

  115. Jujhar says:

    nycoil: vinotintazo, He did not. He stayed in Sweden. There is a bias in favour of him. MacT saw him good in Sweden and believed he was NHL ready last fall, remember? He was wrong then, but the man crush definitely remains on that one.

    Great, so Moroz is going to get chance after chance even though everyone can see he is not an NHL player.

  116. Lowetide says:

    Dipstick:
    Woodguy,

    I wonder if Dellow is using the same metrics that Arch noted at Hockeybuzz?Either he saw something different with regard to Marincin vs. Klefbom, or they ignored what he saw.

    I would suggest that the Oilers decision on Marincin was made at the GM level. That’s where we should be looking.

  117. spoiler says:

    Just checking the OKC sked to see if there was any chance MM might play more there. Nope. The Barons have an absolutely bizarre October schedule if I am reading this thing right. 8 games, 5 against the Stars, and 3 against the Rampage. Yep, they only play two teams the entire month.

    They also go nearly two weeks playing only one game… From Oct 4 to Oct 17 they play once.

  118. su_dhillon says:

    Lowetide: I would suggest that the Oilers decision on Marincin was made at the GM level. That’s where we should be looking.

    Was just about to reply this feels like MacT ‘s call .

  119. spoiler says:

    RexLibris:
    For all of us commenters here, and those of us who were aghast at the demotion of Marincin yesterday: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/06/internet-hyperbole-charlie-brooker

    That was a fine read, Rex. Thank you for the link.

  120. spoiler says:

    spoiler:
    Just checking the OKC sked to see if there was any chance MM might play more there.Nope.The Barons have an absolutely bizarre October schedule if I am reading this thing right.8 games, 5 against the Stars, and 3 against the Rampage.Yep, they only play two teams the entire month.

    They also go nearly two weeks playing only one game… From Oct 4 to Oct 17 they play once.

    So, the Oilers will play five times by Oct 17 and in the same stretch, Marincin will have the opportunity to play twice if he is still in OKC.

  121. Woodguy says:

    Profit: To be clear, I think that MM should be on the team.

    However, if you think he makes the difference between 3-6-1 and 6-3-1 I don’t know what to tell you.

    Why don’t you try to tell me?

    I hate when people disagree, but then don’t give evidence to their opinion.

    This place is all about different opinions and evidence and then everyone gets smarter.

    Smart people change their opinion when faced with evidence.

    Disagree? Fine, great! I’m not the burning bush, I’m wrong all the time.

    Tell me I’m wrong without evidence or logic to back up your opinion?> This isn’t HF.

    I don’t mean to grind on your directly, but the number of “I think you’re wrong, but I’m not offering any proof or logic” posts are at an all time high here.

    Here’s my take:

    Nikitin and Marincin are the best two LHD on the roster.

    My post on Nikitin on my blog and the above link to Archeology’s post at buzzfeed about Marincin are good places to read about the proof.

    Ference cannot handle top 4 assignments, this has been shown many times on this blog and i fairly universally agreed to.

    Hunt has 3 NHL games, Nurse has none, Klef has 17 and showed decently with horrific zone starts.

    All that in mind I rank the LHD as such:

    Marincin
    Nikitin
    Klef
    Nurse
    Ference
    Hunt

    At this time the 2nd best LHD is unavailable and the Oilers have chosen to send their best to OKC.

    What this does is put every single LHD on the roster in a spot above their current NHL ability.

    The single biggest problem with the Oilers for the last 8 years is that they play players above their current NHL ability then scratch their heads and wonder whey they are in the lottery again and again.

    They had a chance to ice a top pair that is at their NHL ability (Marincin-Fayne) then ice a 2nd pair anchored by a RHD at his NHL ability (Petry, but he’s gonna be rusty) and maybe put Nurse there so Petry can hold his hand and avoicd a chaos pair of Nruse-Jultz on the 3rd pair.

    What will happen now that Marincin isn’t available?

    Every single D pair will have at least player playing above his NHL ability and that can sink entire games.

    It has sunk the franchise for 8 year now and thinking it might not sink them in the first 10 games is whistling past the graveyard.

    It may turn out all right.

    Klef might show very well.

    Ference might be fresh enough to not get his head kicked in last he did in the last 4 months of last year.

    Hunt might surprise, I liked him a lot in pre-seaon..

    The point is that there is a lot of “hoping” and “maybe” in those statements and it didn’t have to be that way.

    The Oilers choose to seriously impair the Dpairs to prove a cultural point to their best LHD.

    No defense for it.

  122. book¡je says:

    godot10: Marincin is on his entry level deal.He is not being paid (well) in OKC. $68K vs. $680K in the NHL.Getting you salary cut 90% because your boss is an idiot.How will that make you feel about your boss?

    Depends how long it is cut for – if it’s 2 days, its probably something I would get over.

  123. book¡je says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t think the issue is that he disagrees with you without evidence, it was more the “I disagree with you and (implicit) you are an idiot” that kind of makes it not acceptable here as opposed to HF.

  124. Woodguy says:

    Jonathan WIllis calls the Marincin demotion indefensible

    http://oilersnation.com/2014/10/5/edmonton-oilers-make-their-final-cuts-of-training-camp

    This was an indefensible move. Last year, Marincin walked on to the team and was the club’s best left-shooting defenceman. He had a slow start to camp, playing his offside, but was extremely good in his final two games despite playing on his offside on a pairing with Keith “Millstone” Aulie. He’s probably a better player today than any of the healthy left-shooting defencemen on the team.

    Yes, he doesn’t need waivers and yes he’ll probably be back soon and no, he shouldn’t be rotting in the pressbox but all of that misses the point. The Edmonton Oilers are trying to win games right now. Marincin helps them do that more than Ference, likely more than Nurse and certainly more than Oscar Klefbom, who was gifted a spot alongside Justin Schultz that he looked out of his depth in throughout training camp. I like Klefbom a lot, I think he is a decent player today and will be a legitimately good one in the future, but right now if Anze Kopitar is on the ice without question I want Marincin facing him at the blue line or battling him in front of the net more than I want any of the guys who actually made the team on the left side.

    This was, in short, a terrible decision.

  125. rich says:

    Lowetide: I would suggest that the Oilers decision on Marincin was made at the GM level. That’s where we should be looking.

    LT – interesting thought. Watching yesterday’s presser, I had the opinion that MacT was making a lot of the “tough” decisions. Maybe it was the way he worded things, but there were several times where I thought he was the guy driving the ship on the roster. Maybe that’s why it seemed (a few times anyway) that he was getting a bit defensive.

  126. book¡je says:

    Could they bring MM the day before the Calgary game – i.e. just use a few days of practice as a means to hit him financially for sideburn issues?

  127. book¡je says:

    rich: LT – interesting thought.Watching yesterday’s presser, I had the opinion that MacT was making a lot of the “tough” decisions.Maybe it was the way he worded things, but there were several times where I thought he was the guy driving the ship on the roster.Maybe that’s why it seemed (a few times anyway) that he was getting a bit defensive.

    It’s kind of how it works, GM’s make roster decisions, coaches make game play decisions based on the roster provided.

    Presidents of Hockey Operations sit high in the sky and talk to themselves about their rings…

  128. spoiler says:

    Gregor’s take from ON:

    Keeping Nurse and demoting Marincin could have been a dual message. They want Marincin to play hungrier, because early in camp he played like a veteran who thought he had a guaranteed spot in the lineup. You shouldn’t be doing that when you’ve only played 44 NHL games, and they wanted to reward Nurse. The good news about having depth is that you can take guys out of the lineup or send them down, and not worry that the drop off from player A to player B is that drastic. It will be nice when the Oilers have the same depth at centre.

    He also goes on to quote Button from his Friday show on whether Nurse should get his 9 game look-see. Button feels Nurse should definitely go back to Junior and if he’s going back to Junior why not send him back straight away.

    My stance is kind of in the middle on this subject. I think it is okay to give Nurse 2-3 games to see where his development is right now, but I agree that 9 games is far too many.

    And I think too the GM wants to know where Klefbom and Hunt are at right now, rather than finding out when the injury bug bites. But I wouldn’t want the experiment to go on for every long. Get Hunt two games right away and then get him back to OKC. Marincin is a more known quantity and doesn’t have to go through waivers, but they can’t keep him down there very long. I am disappointed though that he is scarcely going to play while he is there.

    I wonder too if Hunt is being used as a bit of trade bait. Obviously Marincin isn’t being used as bait or they never would have sent him down.

  129. "Frank The Dog" says:

    su_dhillon: I’m not big on sending messages because I’m not sure how often this type of thing actually works.What I do know is that it is inarguable that Marincin was one of the Oilers top 3 defencemen in the games he played last year and that this team has a poor history in valuing defencemen and deciding who should stay and who should go.

    Also in terms of sending a message, there is also a chance he takes the demotion too hard and spends the year trying to get himself out of it.Maybe not a great chance but these sending a message moments aren’t foolproof.

    We saw Eakins and MacT comment on how emotional “some” of the players were at their news. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was crushing news to MM. If that’s the case they better have some pretty good damage control going. Hence the “rotation” approach with Stauffer making the 10 game comment. That’s still a huge fine for arriving not out of shape, but in sub-optimal shape.

  130. "Frank The Dog" says:

    spoiler:
    Gregor’s take from ON:

    Keeping Nurse and demoting Marincin could have been a dual message. They want Marincin to play hungrier, because early in camp he played like a veteran who thought he had a guaranteed spot in the lineup. You shouldn’t be doing that when you’ve only played 44 NHL games, and they wanted to reward Nurse. The good news about having depth is that you can take guys out of the lineup or send them down, and not worry that the drop off from player A to player B is that drastic. It will be nice when the Oilers have the same depth at centre.

    He also goes on to quote Button from his Friday show on whether Nurse should get his 9 game look-see.Button feels Nurse should definitely go back to Junior and if he’s going back to Junior why not send him back straight away.

    My stance is kind of in the middle on this subject.I think it is okay to give Nurse 2-3 games to see where his development is right now, but I agree that 9 games is far too many.

    And I think too the GM wants to know where Klefbom and Hunt are at right now, rather than finding out when the injury bug bites.But I wouldn’t want the experiment to go on for every long.Get Hunt two games right away and then get him back to OKC.Marincin is a more known quantity and doesn’t have to go through waivers, but they can’t keep him down there very long.I am disappointed though that he is scarcely going to play while he is there.

    I wonder too if Hunt is being used as a bit of trade bait.Obviously Marincin isn’t being used as bait or they never would have sent him down.

    I’m of the understanding that both Nurse and Drai will be evaluated as they go. That if they look out of their depth prior t the point the Oil are sure they are not ready then down they go but if they show growth and keep their heads above water, and are still doing so at game 9 then they may stay up.
    I recall Nuge going through something like that, but I’m not sure there was ever any doubt over Hall staying up.

  131. vangolf says:

    Call me crazy, but I can’t get too worked up about MM, given the euphoric cloud I’m still on after watching Yak “get it” on Saturday night. Him and Drai looked good out there and I think adding Pouliot only further complements that line and allows the kids a little more buffer to do their thing.

    In my very subjective eyes, the success of this season is far more in the hands of Yak and RNH taking that next step than it is for MM.

  132. rich says:

    book¡je,

    Hear what you’re saying, but would have thought the coach would have more input on who makes the final roster unless MacT’s style is to take this completely out of his hands.

    In which case, why would you listen to what the coach says if it doesn’t matter. Just asking.

  133. godot10 says:

    Numenius:
    Staples claims that while MM’s Corsi was better than Klefbom’s last year, Klefbom was slightly ahead in contribution to scoring chance +/-.

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/10/06/dallas-eakins-on-corsi-an-individual-player-does-not-have-a-corsi/

    I’m not sure what to make of that stat, but I’m skeptical. I’d definitely have to hear how they determine what a “scoring chance” is and how one “contributes” to it. Sounds pretty subjective and open to statistician bias. It certainly seems fishy if it shows that Schultz was the best of the D last year in contributing to scoring chances +/-, knowing his abysmal Corsi.

    Anyone know anything about this?

    He doesn’t adjust it for quality of competition Marincin was facing the toughest opposition with Petry, which will impact any plus/minus stat.

  134. hunter1909 says:

    vangolf: Call me crazy, but I can’t get too worked up about MM, given the euphoric cloud I’m still on after watching Yak “get it” on Saturday night. Him and Drai looked good out there

    If it was soccer, they’d be raving about Yak’s Saturday night goal all season long. It’s like no one cares.

    Drai is a perfect centreman for Yaks. Two European virtuosos.

  135. Profit says:

    Woodguy,

    A very nice post (minus being snide). I wasn’t implying you were an idiot (as per bookie) which I’d like to clarify on. So, in the interest of that, I’ll expand on my thoughts. I was brief initially because I was/am at work and didn’t have time to write a novel.

    I don’t disagree that MM should be up. I said this right away.

    My initial disagreement was on the fundamental “sky is falling” mentality which is/was prevalent regarding the waiver wire generally and MM specifically. Given some of the other posts here regarding OKC’s weird schedule, there’s an actual non-zero chance that MM is back up and playing before the end of the roadtrip, potentially without playing a game in OKC. That is weird. Undoubtedly. But I get the feeling there is something else going on here. Whether it’s LT’s weight carrot/stick thesis or some sort of “we’re the smartest guys in the room” waiver wire game or something else I don’t know. I’m a bit more sanguine about how this plays out, because MM will be back in a few games.

    My secondary disagreement on the 3-6-1 comment is that hockey is a team game. For the record I’m a believer in corsi as an individual stat when given a large enough sample size (just to give you a picture of my flag in the analytics war), but I disagree fundamentally that one player (maybe you could talk me into a goalie being important enough, but even then not if the new goalie is just replacement level) is enough to make a team go 3-6-1 versus a hypothetical 6-3-1. You pulled out a hypothetical 3-6-1 and I pulled out a hypothetical 6-3-1. I don’t think that MM in/out of the line-up will cost 3 games. If I could prove that I’d have a job next to McHockey and his tanks. I was flippant in my remark because the initial construct of the argument was flippant.

    Do I agree that MM should be in the NHL? Yes. Do I agree that the Oilers have a better chance of winning with MM in the line up? Yes. Do I think that the initial furor over MM’s demotion is a bit over the top and unwarranted, given its apparent short term nature? Yes.

  136. Numenius says:

    Profit: Do I agree that MM should be in the NHL? Yes. Do I agree that the Oilers have a better chance of winning with MM in the line up? Yes. Do I think that the initial furor over MM’s demotion is a bit over the top and unwarranted, given its apparent short term nature? Yes.

    Nicely put. I’m with you. I’d just qualify that the situation does seem to indicate a blind spot in McT’s and Eakins’ judgments, though not as dire as some make it out to be.

  137. Melman says:

    Profit,

    Good summary. We are at game zero and the uproar is incredible and being treated as if MM is down for the season. In truth none of us knows the pulse of the team inside the room and between players and coaches/mgmt. I suspect MM getting sent down caught the attention of all the players regarding what’s expected.

  138. Numenius says:

    godot10: He doesn’t adjust it for quality of competition Marincin was facing the toughest opposition with Petry, which will impact any plus/minus stat.

    Then the same would go for Corsi, which is a plus/minus stat.

  139. OilClog says:

    Not starting your 6 best Defencemen barring injury on opening night is a recipe for disaster. I’m glad the previous 8 years has conditioned me.

    Only the Oilers would ice Hunt over Marincin. Only the Oilers.

    It’s really hard to take a professional franchise seriously when they make moves that make EA sports look good.

  140. Ribs says:

    hunter1909: If it was soccer, they’d be raving about Yak’s Saturday night goal all season long. It’s like no one cares.

    Drai is a perfect centreman for Yaks. Two European virtuosos.

    It was a freebie goal in pre-season…wooooo….

  141. spoiler says:

    Numenius: godot10: He doesn’t adjust it for quality of competition Marincin was facing the toughest opposition with Petry, which will impact any plus/minus stat.

    Then the same would go for Corsi, which is a plus/minus stat.

    Not to mention, Klefbom, during his short NHL tenure, was “gifted” with absolutely horrific zone starts, by far the most difficult on the team, while facing second level comp. And somehow did not blow up before our very eyes.

  142. Ducey says:

    OilClog:
    Not starting your 6 best Defencemen barring injury on opening night is a recipe for disaster. I’m glad the previous 8 years has conditioned me.

    Only the Oilers would ice Hunt over Marincin. Only the Oilers.

    It’s really hard to take a professional franchise seriously when they make moves that make EA sports look good.

    The thing that irks me more than anything else is the self righteous enthusiasm that people on the interwebs rip on anyone in authority.

    I was included to respond back “Only Oilers Fans” but I guess its symptomatic of anonymous people being able to criticize others without fear of repercussions, like being held accountable in real life for their comments.

    Anyway, you should know damn well its not Hunt over Marincin. Heck, reading the thread would have clued you in. Hunt is on the Oilers, but as a 7th or 8th Dman probably likely to sit on the pressbox. Meanwhile, Marincin will be playing 25 minutes a night in preparation for his return to the NHL in 3 weeks, at which time he will no doubt slot in ahead of Hunt.

  143. spoiler says:

    book¡je: Could they bring MM the day before the Calgary game – i.e. just use a few days of practice as a means to hit him financially for sideburn issues?

    NHL players are paid based on games while on the roster as opposed to days on the roster. If they brought him back before the Calgary game there would be no impact on his pocketbook. That said, I’d bet the status and the roster one is on probably have more impact than money on a player’s sideburns.

  144. A'bunadh says:

    godot10: He doesn’t adjust it for quality of competition Marincin was facing the toughest opposition with Petry, which will impact any plus/minus stat.

    From what I can tell, all the “factors” and randomness he uses to discredit corsi, he totally ignores when calculating his scoring chances. Realistically, if JSchultz were to be playing MM’s zonestarts and teammates it’s very possible he gets slaughtered and on the flipside if Marincin was playing with JSchultz’s zone starts and team mates its possible he dominates but no way of knowing with Staples “score effects”. Yet somehow he figures it’s a relevant stat to compare individuals.

    I LOL’d so hard seeing him suggesting that a player can play well one shift with MM and then “slump” the next shift with Ference to discredit WOWY. Same can be said with every analytic hockey stat if you are wanting to discredit it, I guess.

  145. spoiler says:

    Ducey: Meanwhile, Marincin will be playing 25 minutes a night in preparation for his return to the NHL in 3 weeks, at which time he will no doubt slot in ahead of Hunt.

    Unfortunately, during that three week span, the Oilers will have played 8 games, while the Barons will have played 4. So he won’t actually get more playing time in OKC, unless the alternative was to PB him here.

    This really comes down to a call between Klefbom and Marincin. From MacT’s presser, it sounded like they like the different look that Klefa brings. I can only think that different look refers to more physicality and strength. maybe a little more mobility, because it sure isn’t more offense.

    But is also hard to discern what is complete BS in a presser and what is not, especially when the terms being used are vague.

  146. spoiler says:

    A’bunadh: I LOL’d so hard seeing him suggesting that a player can play well one shift with MM and then “slump” the next shift with Ference to discredit WOWY. Same can be said with every analytic hockey stat if you are wanting to discredit it, I guess.

    The fancy stats’ defense against such a WOWY attack would be “sample size”. In Staples’ mathematical works of genius, he wants to limit sample size by using scoring chances over shots attempted. Not a good idea.

  147. Numenius says:

    spoiler:
    Not to mention, Klefbom, during his short tenure, was “gifted” with absolutely horrific zone starts, by far the most difficult on the team, while facing second level comp. And somehow did not blow up before our very eyes.

    You seem to be agreeing with godot, whereas I was disagreeing.

    The main question is how this “scoring chances contribution” stat, if it’s reliable, can make Schultz the best D and Marincin mediocre, exactly the reverse of the Corsi. You can’t say it’s because it’s a +/- stat and Marincin had tougher comp and tougher zone starts than Schultz, because then that should also affect the Corsi, which is also a +/- stat.

    In comparing MM and Klef, the tough zone starts are in Klef’s favour though (though not qualcomp).

    One could also point out that MM had better teammates than Klef (as the Vollman indicates), who was playing a lot with Schultz. So that is an additional reason, at least, not to get too bent out of shape over keeping Klef over MM.

  148. OilClog says:

    Ducey: The thing that irks me more than anything else is the self righteous enthusiasm that people on the interwebsrip on anyone in authority.

    I was included to respond back “Only Oilers Fans” but I guess its symptomatic of anonymous people being able to criticize others without fear of repercussions, like being held accountable in real life for their comments.

    Anyway, you should know damn well its not Hunt over Marincin. Heck, reading the thread would have clued you in.Hunt is on the Oilers, but as a 7th or 8th Dman probably likely to sit on the pressbox.Meanwhile, Marincin will be playing 25 minutes a night in preparationfor his return to the NHL in 3 weeks, at which time he will no doubt slot in ahead of Hunt.

    There’s zero justification over demoting Marincin.

    Hunt is on the roster, Marincin is not.

    Marincin is a far superior player to Hunt.

    Everytime Hunt is on the ice I’ll be wondering where the giant Marincin is, because he’s an actual NHL defenceman and every damn stat says so.

    Marincin is top 6 on this team every damn minute of the day, and it’s absolutely appalling that he’s been sent to the minors. This damn organization owes it to every damn fan to ice their best team possible. Marincin spending top quality minutes in OKC compared to better quality minutes that mean much more to everyone.

    Yea, I’m a regular Joe that’s only an Oiler fan. Sorry for wanting the damn best players playing and trying to win a game and make the playoffs.

    Hunts on the roster and a top 4 Defenceman on this team is in the minor.. Anything else you’d like to dump on me about?

  149. Woodguy says:

    Profit,

    That’s all fair.

    We can disagree as to impact of MM.

    I think it’s massive since i’ve seen what having Dmen play above their NHL ability does to a team.

    The gifted forwards have the puck less.

    The goalie face more shots against.

    The probability of losing goes up.

    This is a team on the edge of being competitive and losing even 5% of the shot share can tip the results the wrong way.

    Especially against the other team’s best, who have a greater probability of scoring.

  150. nycoil says:

    I just finished watching the MacT presser for a second time. Two new (or not so new) takeaways for me.
    1) It was preordained Nurse would get 9 games at someone else’s expense. The quote was something along the lines of, “He would have to play his way off the team.” That right there is a double standard. I feel like Leon Draisaitl was given a similar situation, and MacT again hints at that in the same presser. The Oilers treat players of high draft pedigree differently than they do the guys who come from further back in the pack.
    2) There is such an enormous disconnect between my view of Schultz’s game at this point and what MacT sees. He is the professional hockey man so I have to give up this fight, I guess. But to my eye Schultz had some outstanding moments and also his usual walkabout glaring defensive awareness as well. MacT thought he had an outstanding camp and played well with everybody. He has Norris Trophy-shaped hearts in his eyes when he talks about Schultz.

    Other than that, I stand by my belief that the Oilers are using NHL playing time and roles as a carrot and stick to promote their culture change. Will that cost them games at the start of the season? Possibly. But I believe they are doing it for developmental purposes and are less focused on winning games/playoffs. They wanted to see where Hunt was at, they want Nurse to “hit the wall” before going back so he can see what he needs to bring next year. They’ve always liked Klefa and are handing him his shot to sink or swim. Marty got sent a tough message, and was always talked of as 3rd fiddle behind Klefa and Justin. I think Marty will bounce back and win that job back. I don’t know how many games it will cost the Oilers, but I think the difference is MacT cares less about that than most of us. He is focused on the process. Again, from the presser MacT sounds less interested in a stop-gap at C because Yakimov and Khaira are close. This reinforces my belief that MacT is looking at next season as the year for the big playoff push. This year is still about development and seeing who is part of the future and who isn’t.

    Eakins, however, will care more as his job is on the line and he has Dellow to help him. If 3 games in, Nurse, Hunt and Klefa are floundering, expect Marty back up at Eakins’ behest.

    Yes, Oiler fans, we may be down to having Dallas Eakins as the voice of reasom to ask MacT, “Are you sure you want to do that?” Let’s hope he is up to the task.

  151. Woodguy says:

    Melman:
    Profit,

    Good summary.We are at game zero and the uproar is incredible and being treated as if MM is down for the season.In truth none of us knows the pulse of the team inside the room and between players and coaches/mgmt.I suspect MM getting sent down caught the attention of all the players regarding what’s expected.

    I’m not pissed because I think MM is gone for the season.

    I’m pissed because I really like all of MacT’s adds this year and think this team has a real shot at the playoffs.

    3 points separated 8th from 11th in WC last year.

    This team can’t afford to piss away 1 point and not icing the best team possible will piss away points.

    How many is yet to be seen.

  152. AZOIL says:

    Got my tickets to the Coyotes vs Oilers on the 15th!

    Anyone know if Gagner is going to be playing wing or center? I hope the Oilers hand it to them!!!

  153. commonfan14 says:

    Can anyone think of a recent example where a team actually played a kid 9 games and then sent him down to Junior?

    We talk about it all the time as a thing, but I can’t think of any time off the top of my head where it’s actually happened. Isn’t it typical to either send them down before the season starts a la Druin or keep them up the whole year?

    I think I remember Grigorenko or someone getting sent down after more than 9 games but less than what would count as a year toward UFA status.

  154. nycoil says:

    AZOIL,

    He’s been playing both 2LW and 3C this preseason. Enjoy! I like the arena, whatever they’re calling it these days. I just couldn’t believe how far out from town it was when I went. I was staying in Chandler attending Bondurant and saw a Yotes-Wings round one playoff game. Couldn’t believe I got 2nd row behind a penalty box for $105 including parking, face value. For playoffs! I nearly fell asleep driving there and back though, and that was with no beers.

  155. Ribs says:

    Woodguy: 3 points separated 8th from 11th in WC last year.

    And only 24 points separated 8th from 14th (Oilers)!! Go team!!

    I’m just going to take a cue from MacT and have lesser expectations this season.

  156. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: Unfortunately, during that three week span, the Oilers will have played 8 games, while the Barons will have played 4.So he won’t actually get more playing time in OKC, unless the alternative was to PB him here.

    This really comes down to a call between Klefbom and Marincin.From MacT’s presser, it sounded like they like the different look that Klefa brings.I can only think thatdifferent look refers to more physicality and strength. maybe a little more mobility, because it sure isn’t more offense.

    But is also hard to discern what is complete BS in a presser and what is not, especially when the terms being used are vague.

    It’s easy to discern.

    MacT has had rose colored glasses for Jultz and Klef for a long time.

    He said last year that he expected Klef to make the team.

    He said he wants to use fancystats, but disagrees with them when it comes to Julz because they don’t match his perception.

    MacT sees Julz and Klef good and results be damned because he’s the one calling the shots.

  157. nycoil says:

    commonfan14,

    This guy turned out alright.
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96594

    In the interest of fairness, Brock Otten argues it wasn’t helpful
    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2014/07/30-teams-in-30-days-edmonton-oilers.html

  158. nycoil says:

    Woodguy,

    This. Agree 100% on those two.

  159. fifthcartel says:

    Woodguy: It’s easy to discern.

    MacT has had rose colored glasses for Jultz and Klef for a long time.

    He said last year that he expected Klef to make the team.

    He said he wants to use fancystats, but disagrees with them when it comes to Julz because they don’t match his perception.

    MacT sees Julz and Klef good and results be damned because he’s the one calling the shots.

    This worries me a lot. If MacT can’t see what a player like Marincin brings then that is a huge problem.

    Nevermind the likelihood that Petry is probably going to be moved, but Marincin too? That would be very hard to defend.

  160. nycoil says:

    Obligatory former Marlie on waivers alert. Jerry D’Amigo

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120952

  161. commonfan14 says:

    nycoil,

    That’s right, forgot about Pietrangelo. Weird it hasn’t happened more often since considering his success.

  162. Ducey says:

    OilClog: There’s zero justification over demoting Marincin.

    Hunt is on the roster, Marincin is not.

    Marincin is a far superior player to Hunt.

    Everytime Hunt is on the ice I’ll be wondering where the giant Marincin is, because he’s an actual NHL defenceman and every damn stat says so.

    Marincin is top 6 on this team every damn minute of the day, and it’s absolutely appalling that he’s been sent to the minors. This damn organization owes it to every damn fan to ice their best team possible. Marincin spending top quality minutes in OKC compared to better quality minutes that mean much more to everyone.

    Yea, I’m a regular Joe that’s only an Oiler fan. Sorry for wanting the damn best players playing and trying to win a game and make the playoffs.

    Hunts on the roster and a top 4 Defenceman on this team is in the minor.. Anything else you’d like to dump on me about?

    There is a justification for sending down Marincin. Accountability, maturity, responsibility, development.

    The organization clearly has put a premium on fitness and preparation. They likely invited Marincin to spend a good chunk of the summer in town working his butt off under the supervision of their fitness guys. A bunch of guys did that, including maybe their most important prospects Yak 1 and Leon.

    Marincin appears to have declined the invitation (if one was extended – its hard to believe it wasn’t). He hangs out in Europe having a good time and then shows up heavier but out of shape and slower. He struggles in camp until starting to look better near the end. Maybe he is even a little dismissive of the whole thing, thinking he is an NHL’er and need not worry about training camp or being sent to the minors.

    Now, if you are looking long term, and want to send a clear message that you need to be a professional, come ready, listen to your coaches, etc., is it conceivable that you might want to make an example of Marincin or teach him a lesson? Is it possible that you are indirectly sending a message to others that you better get your shit together too?

    Is it possible that teaching this message is important enough that you might even sacrifice a few points early in the season (a season where you are not likely to make the playoffs anyway) to send the message?

    I guess these possibilities are not conceivable to some people. Perhaps they forget that Eakins was brought in to change the culture of the team to something MacT was looking for – something that Kreuger’s nice guy approach wasn’t providing. Maybe they forget that the glory days Oilers all talk about playing the NYI and learning what it took to be a professional, to sacrifice etc.

    In any event, it seems to me that this experience may improve Maricin in the long run, and perhaps the team culture as well. If it does that, then sending him down for 3 weeks is worth it.

  163. flyfish1168 says:

    nycoil:
    I just finished watching the MacT presser for a second time. Two new (or not so new) takeaways for me.

    2) There is such an enormous disconnect between my view of Schultz’s game at this point and what MacT sees. He is the professional hockey man so I have to give up this fight, I guess. But to my eye Schultz had some outstanding moments and also his usual walkabout glaring defensive awareness as well. MacT thought he had an outstanding camp and played well with everybody. He has Norris Trophy-shaped hearts in his eyes when he talks about Schultz.

    I believe I see what you see. Justin is a one trick pony and he is a liability in the d-zone and on the PP. He most hold the Oiler record for the most shorthanded goals against. All to often he is 1st into the corner only to lose the puck battle coming out.

    I remember watching Coffey he may have ventured to deep and forget to comeback but at least he had an idea in the d-zone and not to get scored on on the PP.

  164. flyfish1168 says:

    nycoil:
    Obligatory former Marlie on waivers alert. Jerry D’Amigo

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120952

    Ohh my god don’t let Dallas know we may get another ex- Marlie.

  165. Ducey says:

    commonfan14:
    Can anyone think of a recent example where a team actually played a kid 9 games and then sent him down to Junior?

    We talk about it all the time as a thing, but I can’t think of any time off the top of my head where it’s actually happened.Isn’t it typical to either send them down before the season starts a la Druin or keep them up the whole year?

    I think I remember Grigorenko or someone getting sent down after more than 9 games but less than what would count as a year toward UFA status.

    Mika Jibanejad played 9 and then was sent back to Sweden for a year. I imagine that was done for contractual reasons.

  166. sliderule says:

    Nurse is the definition of chaos.Tries to do too much and will get eaten alive by the big western conference forwards.If he doesn’t suffer a major injury in his nine games I will be surprised.With his talent if he was brought along slowly and told that he doesn’t have to be the toughest guy on the ice he could end up as the oilers number one.I wouldn’t count on that.
    Hunt got eaten alive by pretty much any forward in his three games last year.The big forwards will eat him alive.Rinse and repeat.
    Marincin by stats and eye was one of the best oiler D in his 44games.This training camp as so nicely described in detail by Woodguy he was the oilers best D in training camp.If he came into camp out of shape it didn’t show by eye or Corgis.I would assume his problem is that he didn’t get connected with the Edmonton steroid king as oilers feel he hasn’t got stronger.
    My problem with all this is that the oilers are sending a D down who is arguably in our top two.Please don’t give me how Fayne is number one or two.Remember how we felt about Ference..
    When we drafted Hall there was talk about the oilers not getting better until the new rink was ready.
    It’s becoming clear to me that talk was close to the bone.

  167. soup says:

    Wow! Lots of vitriol, hand wringing and sky-is-falling. Must be hockey season.

  168. hunter1909 says:

    sliderule: When we drafted Hall there was talk about the oilers not getting better until the new rink was ready.

    They’re hooked on what’s now a pipeline of Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Nurse, Draisraitl, Klefbom etc. Add the McDavid sweepstakes and barring an unexpected playoff push, that talk starts walking.

    After last season, as a fan I feel ready for anything. Team blows out of the gate? Fine – They get a shot at McDavid and I get to watch Eakins squirm. Team comes flying out of the gate? Fine – That’s what they’re supposed to do.

  169. AZOIL says:

    nycoil,

    Yes it is way too far out in the west valley! I live in the East as well and to get out there we have to drive through downtown and traffic heading home from downtown so it is horrible. I really feel this is part of their demise since they relocated out there, nobody will go to games from the east.

    The prices are nice though, I get great tickets all the time compared to Alberta prices!

  170. soup says:

    Further, by my eye although I think Marty should clearly still be with the team, it appeared that Klefbom was handling the heavier bodies better. For all the years that this team has not been able to consistently break a cycle or protect the box, I tend to prefer those that can claim defensive chops. I have no problem with Klefbom being up instead of Marty.

    Hunt, however – I just don’t get this one at all. I don’t see any case where Hunt should be up instead of Marty.

  171. Ryan says:

    Ducey,

    Ducey’s long been one of the most sober-minded posters at this blog. I think it’s fair to suggest that there are a range of possibilities as to why MM was sent down.

    I wonder what type of career path you chose that you always seem to maintain a reasonable view? High school principle?

  172. Numenius says:

    commonfan14: Can anyone think of a recent example where a team actually played a kid 9 games and then sent him down to Junior?

    Mark Scheifele. Twice. 2011 and 2012.

    They didn’t play him all 9 games, but they played him at the beginning of the regular season those years and then sent him back to Barrie.

  173. Orion says:

    David Staples wrote an article today, supporting the Oilers’ decision to send Marincin down:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Cult+Hockey+Edmonton+Oilers+coach/10267765/story.html

    I guess he’s not a big fan of using Corsi to evaluate players, which is pretty debatable, but one other thing he said was this:

    ‘Also, when you look at a more precise individual stat — Klefbom’s and Marincin’s actual contributions to scoring chances last season as compared to the mistakes they individually made on scoring chances against — Klefbom came out slightly ahead of Marincin.’

    Is this something that’s kept track of when it comes to advanced stats? Curious to know what other people have to say about this.

  174. Freeəəəəədom 95 says:

    Someday, surely, this team will squeak in the second season with ninety-five points.

    ———

    The first E represents 2008 when Katz took the reigns and the wee Eberle draft selection. Let’s not talk about the second E. Each ə thereafter represents a single-digit draft day humiliation.

    ———

    I suppose my new moniker also represents my increasingly realistic retirement program. I think by age ninety, the word “plan” is kinda played out, so we’ll call it a program.

    ———

    nycoil: It was preordained Nurse would get 9 games at someone else’s expense. The quote was something along the lines of, “He would have to play his way off the team.” That right there is a double standard.

    I guess we didn’t watch the same video. MacT said that most raw defensemen play themselves out of the picture during the preseason by being inconsistent. Darnell didn’t look overwhelmed or inconsistent, so he’s still hanging around. First hurdle passed.

    As for the chaos in his game, I’m sure the guys were all told to go out there and make a difference, even at the expense of making some errors. By opening night, Darnell will have viewed some film showing him what they liked and did not like about the edge he brought to the preseason. Neither Eakins nor MacT treat the preseason like a dress rehearsal. That’s just how they roll. The upside is that you see more. The downside is that opening night remains a big adventure. As desperate as we are for success, it’s too soon to switch entirely out of development mode. We’ve still got indispensable “incoming” assets. Not until we’ve finished raking and breaking Bogdan / Nurse / Klefbom / Juju / Moroz will we reach size-parity with the powerhouse teams in the Western conference.

    They’ve both been preaching in their pressers that the players had better plan on being good every day. They will continue to develop deserving prospects during the regular season, but this will all be done on a very short leash.

    MacT and Eakins don’t believe that the preseason is worth much in making a final judgement. The prospect is simply not playing at the regular season game pace. Nurse might respond to NHL pace or he might falter (more likely the latter). Sending Nurse down doesn’t answer the question. In particular, it leaves Nurse wondering where he fell short. He’s going to learn a lot about where his game stands very quickly when he’s out there with the fur flying in the regular season.

    I don’t see how we can start talking about a double standard when Nurse hasn’t been given the definitive test. Marincin has a lot more on his driving record, for better or worse.

    I think Ramsay is responsible for Hunt, and Hunt is responsible for lowering the “compete level” boom on Marincin’s head. Marincin is more like to break the cycle. Darnell is more likely to break the cycler. With two units of potent PP and Darnell running around breaking the cycler, maybe they won’t have to dress Gadzooks when he returns from IR. That would be a better team.

    Where you see double standard, I see dominoes.

  175. spoiler says:

    Ryan:
    Ducey,

    Ducey’s long been one of the most sober-minded posters at this blog.I think it’s fair to suggest that there are a range of possibilities as to why MM was sent down.

    I wonder what type of careerpath you chose that you always seem to maintain a reasonable view?High school principle?

    I believe Ducey belongs to this blog’s extensive legal team.

  176. Ryan says:

    New thread alert.

  177. nycoil says:

    Freeəəəəədom 95,

    The double standard exists in that players of a high draft position are given every chance to fail while players that don’t have that same “pedigree” are scrutinized much more for perceived warts.

    Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Schultz, Draisaitl are held to one standard.

    Yak is held to another.

    Nurse and Klefbom are held to one standard, Marincin another.

    The latest evidence for this comes from MacT’s comments about Nurse in this camp. If you watch portion of the video where he discusses Nurse again, maybe you will see the passages I am talking about.

    1. 2:00 mark: “At what point do we get Darnell his games because I think we can all agree he is just going to get better and better.” Fair, does that mean Marincin isn’t?
    2. 2;45 mark: “It’s the 3rd year of his entry level deal. It’s the last year we have the flexibility to try a couple of different players.” So, this speaks to it not being a question of Marincin’s ability.
    3. 4:55 mark: “Coming into camp, he’d have to play himself out of this opportunity and in my mind he hasn’t done that.” MacT on Nurse
    4. 5:35 mark: ” But generally with guys like that of high pedigree you want to play them to the point of failure.” MacT on Draisiatl.

    From the horse’s mouth.

  178. gcw_rocks says:

    nycoil: From the horse’s ass

    Fixed.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca