EXITING THE SYSTEM: OKLAHOMA, USA

If you’ve got horseshoes, you’re in Oil Country! And the hits just keep on coming!

  • Trevor Linden: “Oh, you just kind of… I… you just kind of roll your eyes… It’s just a disbelief… (Hosts laugh and joke that they can hear his reaction in his voice) It’s like – are you kidding?” Source

I mean, it’s like gold for me. The great thing is, it’s true! ARE you kidding me? NOOO! It’s true. Honestly, I’ve never been to an opium den (are there opium dens?) but this must be what its like. Music! Damn straight, Trevor! Roll your eyes!!! The lottery win is like that Bugs Bunny episode where the Acme Hat Company truck loses all the hats and they keep landing on Bugs and Elmer Fudd, changing their personalities with every new hat. The lottery hat that landed on the Oilers is a trump hat, it’s shock and freaking awe. So good, so good.

  • Cam Neely“There were times when I felt like I didn’t know exactly what was happening whether it was a confidence in knowing, or not. Communication [in the past] could have been better. I would have liked it to be better.” Source

Now that Cam Neely and Don Sweeney will have open lines of communication, things will go better in terms of communication. In terms of decisions? Well, that’s going to be a bit of a question mark for a time. Don Sweeney has significant experience, but all in the development end:

  • Bruins site: He has spent the prior six seasons as the team’s Assistant General Manager and in that position, he oversaw the development of the team’s drafted prospects at the AHL, junior hockey, college and European levels in addition to having a supervisory role in the day-to-day operations of the hockey department. He also oversaw all hockey operations matters for Boston’s AHL affiliate in Providence. Source

Peter Chiarelli paid in full for the Seguin deal (that was a trade that was an L from day one and that’s a fact) but the overall run during his time in Boston was very successful. He’s leaving significant cap issues and Sweeney is getting elevated, at least partly, due to his relationship with Neely. Neely’s hockey resume? Five seasons as president of the Bruins and he’s getting the team a new practice rink.

BARONS TO OILERS?

How many Barons will we see in the NHL next season? Among the players dressed for last night’s final game for OKC, I’d list Darnell Nurse and Andrew Miller as men who could play significant roles in the NHL in 2015-16. I believe Darnell Nurse will make the Oilers opening night unless changes are made on the dormant roster, but there is some anecdotal evidence that both Chiarelli and McLellan are very patient men (it’s below, hang in there).

We might see Brandon Davidson, Jordan Oesterle and two or three others recalled as required. There are some interesting prospects (Khaira, Musil, Simpson, Chase, Josh Winquist) but we need to see more before projecting them onto the NHL team. Laurent Brossoit is a prospect of note, but may not get much NHL time in 2015-16.

  • Chiarelli’s first AHL team: He had a strong group in the AHL 2006-07, David Krejci was kicking ass at 20 and Mark Stuart was a significant prospect who would get a cup of coffee. Nate Thompson was on that team, as was Kris Versteeg but Chiarelli traded him away (a deal he lost, with Brandon Bochenski the return).
  • McLellan’s first NHL team and AHL impact: The 2008-09 AHL squad for SJS would eventually produce NHLers Jamie McGinn, Jason Demers, Andrew Desjardins and Thomas Greiss. Interesting to note that rookie pro’s Demers and Desjardins didn’t get an NHL cup of coffee (although McGinn was recalled for 35 games).

The discipline shown in regard to Krejci (he played 6 NHL game as a rookie pro) and Demers (he didn’t play an NHL game that season) may offer us some insight into Darnell Nurse and his future.

Overall, and including all the AHL players this season (regular season, playoffs) my expectation for the future goes like this:

  • D Darnell Nurse: He was splendid in junior and the late cup of coffee in OKC. I don’t see him playing more than 40 minor league games during his entry-level deal and believe he’ll emerge as a quality NHL defenseman who plays in the heart of the game.
  • C Anton Lander: A major season in his career, he’s an NHLer now and an important Oiler (that 3C job will be important). Can he handle it? The performance at the WHC’s was further proof in my opinion, but Anton needs to play that role successfully for 82 full games before we crown him as the answer.
  • D Martin Marincin: I was a little discouraged by the verbal from some quarters recently, seems Oilers fans simply cannot stand the idea of a defenseman who plays his career with his own teeth. I remain convinced he’ll be an NHL player, but will admit there’s some question about where he’ll bat in the lineup.
  • C Bogdan Yakimov: Chiarelli talks about bringing the heavy but experience tells us bringing the skilled heavy is the real issue. Yakimov didn’t post many crooked numbers early but cracked the code for 11 points in his final 13 games before injury. Another full season in the AHL is likely but there appears to be a player here.
  • W Iiro Pakarinen: He looked very good in the AHL and surprised with his aggressive play during an NHL audition. We don’t know if he’ll bring enough offense but this is a player with a chance, picked up as a free agent last summer to little fanfare. Love this kind of move.
  • R Greg Chase: Five shots last night and he was getting chances in an elimination game. There’s a lot to learn and consistency is going to be one of the things we’ll hear about him needing to work on, but there’s actual evidence he can play the game and make a difference. Suspect the new coach and GM will notice him early and often in TC.
  • C Kyle Platzer: I always earmark players who get a line in their draft day bio about two-way play, and Platzer’s offense added to that nugget make him a genuine player of interest. Miles to go, just like Chase, but these kids enter pro hockey having achieved much during their junior careers. Handled properly, and with patience, Edmonton could have something here.
  • G Laurent Brossoit: He’s a goalie, so lord knows if he can cobble together two seasons that look similar but this past year showed he can play well in the AHL. Suspect he’s the No. 1 G in Bakersfield in 2015-16 and then we’ll see. Fine prospect.
  • D Joey Laleggia: He played only two games in the postseason but his five regular season games (1-1-2) showed he can make plays at the AHL level. His size is going to make him more suspect than prospect until he makes it, but if you look at those college numbers there may be a player here. Miles to go before we know.
  • C Jujhar Khaira: I see people lumping Bogdan and Jujhar in together, not sure that acknowledges the differences in offensive ability. Khaira did spike in the playoffs (8GP, 3-1-4) but small sample size and most of it came from one game. Next season should see him in more of a feature role, but the difference in offense between Yakimov (.491 to 1.96 ppg during regular season) is substantial and history tells us it’ll likely stay that way.
  • D Dillon Simpson: An up and down season for the young defender, I think he has more ability than several Barons’ blue but the proof is in the performance. Simpson’s improvement year over year in college was quality, hopefully we see the same in pro.
  • R Andrew Miller:  Late bloomer has a chance, looked so good in an NHL audition. It might get swept away in all of the changes but I’d like to see him as an extra forward on the NHL roster next year.
  • D Brandon Davidson: We’ve talked about him quite a bit recently, but he’s put himself in a decent position for an NHL job next year. Davidson’s skill isn’t going to get him noticed but he does a lot of things right and is consistent. Suspect McLellan will appreciate that and Chiarelli will love the price point. No guarantees, there will be eight to a dozen better D than Davidson in camp, but he’s faced longer odds and beat them like a rented mule.
  • R Tyler Pitlick: Injuries remain his constant companion and the men who drafted him are no longer in the power positions in the organization. He always looked like a player to me, suspect Pitlick’s story has more chapters in it.
  • D Jordan Oesterle: He so fast you can’t avoid watching Oesterle and for that reason alone I’d bet on some NHL time next year. Literally no idea if he makes it and that’s fair. You can find players in history with this skill set who made it, but many more were lost in the flood.
  • D Josh Winquist: Winquist points out the importance of using draft picks wisely. Edmonton spent some higher picks in recent years on future role players, which is a poor use of assets. Winquist is passing draft picks in terms of performance without an NHL contract. The good bets Edmonton has been making under Bob Green in that little seam (college, CHL undrafted) is encouraging, with Winquist being a recent example.
  • D Brad Hunt: Laugh all you want, this guy can flat out play when he has the puck. I don’t know what to do with him, but discounting his skill is wrong wrong wrong.
  • D David Musil: He’s going to need a coach who believes in him, McLellan employed some stay-at-home types early on, less so later in his time with the Sharks. We’ll see, cheering for him.
  • L Mitch Moroz: Year one saw the Oilers use him sparingly, which is a disaster for young prospects. He didn’t play much in the postseason, suggesting to me the organization may feel he’s still a long way from being able to contribute.
  • L Kale Kessy: Showed some things early last season, including increased speed. Might pass Moroz as the next Gazdic.
  • G Richard Bachman: Another guy I don’t know where to place but I like him a lot and he had a fine season.
  • L Curtis Hamilton: Buddy needed to show more offense in my opinion, we’ll see and maybe they bring him in for another year. It’s more likely he’ll need to get a second opinion.
  • Kellen and Connor Jones: All they do is make plays. I hope they get Bakersfield contracts just for their PK work.
  • D Martin Gernat: Conditioning issues and injuries derailed his season, Oilers buried him and it doesn’t look good. We have to create an area, maybe call it the “Theo Peckham Room” for guys MacT soured on. Too bad, he looked like a player.
  • C Travis Ewanyk: I don’t think he’s going to make it as an AHL player.

woodnatalie

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Dennis King, Oilogosphere Icon. McLellan, Nelson, Babcock.
  • Eric Rodgers, Tend the Farm. Sail on, Barons.
  • Travis Yost, TSN. Everything is happening!

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Plenty of room for your thoughts too!

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135 Responses to "EXITING THE SYSTEM: OKLAHOMA, USA"

  1. Ben says:

    McKenzie just confirmed $3M per for McLellan

  2. wheatnoil says:

    Ben:
    McKenzie just confirmed $3M per for McLellan

    Wonder if it still would’ve been $3M had they signed him today?

  3. HiddenDarts says:

    Sad to say goodbye to OKC. I actually bought a Jersey for pickup hockey as they were closing out, so I’ll at least have a piece of them forever. I even said to my wife the other day, “If they make the Calder Cup Finals, I’ll fly to OKC!”

    Would’ve been sad, though, watching a championship with only about 1500 other souls. That building was always very grim looking.

    Ahead to the future, I’m ecstatic about the move! San Diego’s getting the Ducks, but I suspect they’ll play Bakersfield 5-8 times. I will be at every one of those games.

    Greedily, I’d like Darnell to be on the new Condors. The likelihood, I think, is minimal. If you saw even one of his games this year, you know he’s an NHL player.

  4. Ben says:

    TSN now has Ray Ferraro dissecting Mike Babcock’s 3rd grade report card as part of their live 40-hour ‘Babcock Era Begins’ special, which will culminate with Jeff O’Neill’s self-immolation at Dundas Square.

  5. Stanley 2018 says:

    I’m happy for the players. OKC was a lonely place, and now they go to a very successful Org who have a solid fan base and innovative marketing. Another solid move by Katz.

  6. Ducey says:

    wheatnoil: Wonder if it still would’ve been $3M had they signed him today?

    I expect that’s a rhetorical question, but no doubt BUF would have come calling and offered more. Good work by MacT and Chia getting after TMc.
    ——————————
    L Mitch Moroz: Year one saw the Oilers use him sparingly, which is a disaster for young prospects. He didn’t play much in the postseason, suggesting to me the organization may feel he’s still a long way from being able to contribute.

    You have said this a lot lately LT, but a poster here in March pointed out that Moroz was fighting mono for much of the season. If true, it likely explains the limited ice time and lack of movement forward.
    ——————————

    I hope they do not bring back Hunt or Bachman. Both are terrific AHL players, but they are getting played ahead of prospects. Brossoit and Laleggia should be getting those minutes next year.

  7. linkfromhyrule says:

    Ben:
    TSN now has Ray Ferraro dissecting Mike Babcock’s 3rd grade report card as part of their live 40-hour ‘Babcock Era Begins’ special, which will culminate with Jeff O’Neill’s self-immolation at Dundas Square.

    lmao, just another day in Toronto! I have a feeling that Babcock is going to eat the Toronto media alive. Some of those guys are unreal.

    Something I realized from your article LT, for the first time in a long time (maybe ever), we don’t have to sit here and watch our GM and coach make rookie mistakes because they’re still learning on the job. We have grizzled veterans, in management!! Chia has already made his mistakes, learned from them, and is better for it.

    This could be one of the longest summers ever as an Oil fan.

  8. Yeti says:

    > I’ve never been to an opium den (are there opium dens?)

    Word has it that Woodguy and DSF have their covert meetings in Edmonton’s last surviving opium den at the rear of a Chinese laundry place somewhere behind 102Ave. This den was also the last known location of Steve Tambellini prior to his firing and subsequent disappearance from the face of the earth. This unlikely coincidence have led some to speculate that Steve Tambellini and DSF are in fact one and the same, a little like Clark Kent and Superman.

  9. Pouzar says:

    Sad to see OKC lose their team bit that place was empty.
    They will be playing in front of 4,500 a night in Bakersfield so that will be good.
    Gonna be some late nights for me but looking forward to it.

  10. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Ducey:

    I hope they do not bring back Hunt or Bachman.Both are terrific AHL players, but they are getting played ahead of prospects.Brossoit and Laleggia should be getting those minutes next year.

    Bachman earned a chance at an NHL backup position this year… that doesn’t mean he’ll get it on account of contracts, but it’s hard to argue Scrivens was better than Bachman this year. The guy is young enough to still become an NHLer, if only because he’s a goalie.

    I’ll be interested to see if anyone pulls a Brodziak out of training camp this year. I don’t include guys like Nurse or Leon in that equation, because to me they are sure fire bets to be NHLers eventually. Rather, I mean guys who may or may not make it ever, who come to camp and earn some games. Longer shot types.

    I think there is an outside chance that Chase works out like a madman this summer and blows the doors off in TC. Runner up is Platzer.

  11. wheatnoil says:

    The Babcocks became empty-nesters the same year his contract expired. When he "didn't want to negotiate in-season," was a good chance he'd— Justin Bourne (@jtbourne) May 21, 2015

    leave. They've also wanted to live in a big city, and Alain Vigneault isn't going anywhere. Money obviously a huge factor, but TO— Justin Bourne (@jtbourne) May 21, 2015

    checked other boxes. On top of all that, smart, motivated guys like Shanahan, Dubas and Hunter checked the final "Can I win here?" box.— Justin Bourne (@jtbourne) May 21, 2015

    If true (and it may not be, though I like Bourne and tend to respect him), it doesn’t sound like Edmonton wouldn’t been at the top of the list for Babcock (if he’s looking for a “big city”). It’s impossible to know, but there’s every chance the Oilers would’ve been left at the altar like Buffalo.

    As others have said, ChiaPet’s first move (if one excludes EetuD2) is an under-stated smart one. Let’s hope for more of the same!

  12. leadfarmer says:

    Whoever thought hockey in Oklahoma was a good idea must be related to Gary Bettman.

  13. Rational Zealot says:

    Watching Tampa’s evisceration of the Rangers last night was something to behold.

    You have quite a team when Steven Stamkos is a solid second line player.

    Jon Cooper might be the best coach in the NHL. His record is amazing.

    The production they are getting out of young players is incredible.

    And how/where they acquired them is something.

    Tyler Johnson: undrafted free agent
    Nikita Kucherov: second round pick
    Ondrej Palat: seventh round pick

    This is line is playing like the best line in the NHL. Amazing.

    Victor Hedman is a superstar.

    Alex Killorn: 3rd round pick (in 2007)
    NIkita Nesterov: fifth round pick

    Acquired Jason Garrison for a second round pick (this is a good price for a veteran D).
    Signed Stralman to a great contract.
    Overpaid Callahan by a lot (mistake here I think)
    Andrej Sustr (another undrafted free agent0
    Overpaid Carle
    Coburn for a first round pick (this may bite them–but at least they got two years not one)

    So they overpaid to acquire three veterans but they had the luxury of doing so because they are getting so much out of guys on ELC and RFA contracts.

    Lesson: You cannot win without getting contributions out of young players.

  14. Halfwise says:

    Bohologo:
    With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson, the Toronto hockey media business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.There is also a dark side.

    “We were just on the edge of the desert near Barstow when the drugs began to take hold.” Man, I must have read Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas a dozen times, marveling at how someone could function in such a variety of altered states. His Hell’s Angels and Campaign Trail works were also worth reading.

    Thompson had a unique perspective of things and the gift of gonzo journalism to convey that perspective to us.

  15. wheatnoil says:

    http://oilersnation.com/2015/5/21/chiarelli-on-nurse

    Gregor on the Nurse situation with a quote from Chiarelli. Part of the quote is as follows: “For a defenceman, it is harder to break into the league properly. With Dougie Hamilton he had a good strong core around him, and they are completely different players.”

    The ‘good strong core’ is the money bit. Gregor rightly points out that Hamilton played with very good to elite NHL D in his first year in the NHL and Chiarelli seems to be quite aware of that.

    This is in strike contrast to another (former) GM about a different young prospect… “When you talk about Oscar, I don’t think there is one facet of the game where you can put him in and hurt his development.” This married with the fact that he seemed fine with Klefbom playing with Schultz and calling them the ‘first pairing’ was something many of us were concerned about.

    We’ll see how the summer players out, but I can’t help but feel like the light I see is daylight, where as before, I was fairly certain it was a train. That said, I’m an Oilers fan… and so optimism during the summer is what I do best.

  16. Yeti says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: if anyone pulls a Brodziak out of training camp this year.

    I remember the Patrick Thoresen ‘Training Camp of Thunder’ very well. Damn, I rooted for that guy and he surpassed every expectation. I could only see Pakarinen having a similar camp, but hope to be surprised.

  17. rickithebear says:

    He was called a lier by Buffalo media.
    Accused of using Buffalo.

    Stated he Did not use Buffalo.
    1. Wanted big city.
    2. Live in Condo in Downtown core.
    3. Shanahan made it clear they would do anything financially at start of the process.
    4. Who is the best team to bump the dollars!

    Glad we did not get this lying piece of shit!

    Though having the better winning coach in the 2010’s

    Allows me to say that!

  18. D says:

    The good part of the Seguin trade is if Chiarelli got burned so bad on that one, the likelihood of a repeat mistake of that nature in Edmonton is minimized.

  19. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Yeti: I remember the Patrick Thoresen ‘Training Camp of Thunder’ very well. Damn, I rooted for that guy and he surpassed every expectation. I could only see Pakarinen having a similar camp, but hope to be surprised.

    A friend of mine owns, what might very well be, the only Patrick Thoresen Oilers jersey in circulation. He didn’t cheap out with a knockoff either, it’s the real deal, paid full price about 1 week into that season. It remains a thing of hilarious beauty.

  20. wheatnoil says:

    Moroz was a relatively high draft pick and does have size. I know it’s early to give up on a player and we abide by the 5 years mantra, but I still think Moroz is a poor bet. I wonder if there’s a team that would take a chance on him for a low draft pick (6th or 7th round) if the 50-man list gets tight.

    I also think, with a new GM in, there’s a less than 10% chance that Pitlick and C. Hamilton stick around. I actually think there’s a better chance that Winquist gets an ELC. He’s a Bob Green hire and Green is still in a good position with the organization.

  21. TheGreatMutato says:

    wheatnoil:
    EetuD2

    This is why I read this blog.

  22. RexLibris says:

    Regarding Don Sweeney as GM: Sweeney’s experience has been in their development system which, from what I can tell, has been underwhelming of late.

    Granted, partly due to the poor drafting done prior to Keith Gretzky taking over as Head Scout, but recall how Scott Howson and Steve Tambellini ran the AHL squads for the Oilers and Canucks, respectively. Neither one proved to be particularly capable as NHL GMs.

    In Sweeney’s case the Providence Bruins showed improvement year over year, so he may become a solid executive at this level. But the rest of it sounds like Neely micromanaging a bit.

  23. G Money says:

    Just posted a comment and it was swallowed … if I repost it, it says “duplicate comment”. LT really does think I’m Smid!

  24. G Money says:

    Wow … I just cannot get this comment to post. Something in here is confusing the hell out of the system. Maybe it’s threatened by the concept of using AI?!

    – start problem comment –

    Completely off topic, but I’ve got a spare couple of hours and, after some idle experimentation, am wondering if anyone here has heard of any attempts to use machine learning algorithms (e.g. neural nets, SVMs), to evaluate draft picks?

    Wondering if it will produce more valid and/or interesting results than the straight multiple regression that is de rigeur, but don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

    – end problem comment –

  25. Rational Zealot says:

    rickithebear:
    He was called a lier by Buffalo media.
    Accused of using Buffalo.

    Stated he Did not use Buffalo.
    1. Wanted big city.
    2. Live in Condo in Downtown core.
    3. Shanahan made it clear they would do anything financially at start of the process.
    4. Who is the best team to bump the dollars!

    Glad we did not get this lying piece of shit!

    Good lord. For someone who was already off the deep end you seem to have left the universe.

  26. Ducey says:

    RexLibris:

    In Sweeney’s case the Providence Bruins showed improvement year over year, so he may become a solid executive at this level. But the rest of it sounds like Neely micromanaging a bit.

    A bit? Neely’s quote on communication reeks of “Chiarelli wasn’t listening to me!”

  27. Oddspell says:

    G Money:
    Wow … I just cannot get this comment to post.Something in here is confusing the hell out of the system.Maybe it’s threatened by the concept of using AI?!

    – start problem comment –

    Completely off topic, but I’ve got a spare couple of hours and, after some idle experimentation, am wondering if anyone here has heard of any attempts to use machine learning algorithms (e.g. neural nets, SVMs), to evaluate draft picks?

    Wondering if it will produce more valid and/or interesting results than the straight multiple regression that is de rigeur, but don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

    – end problem comment –

    Never heard of it but I’d imagine feature-based learning might just be an effective way of discerning player comparables. This is assuming you buy into the stats based evaluation of draft picks (which I think most of us do).

    I wouldn’t be surprised if hockey teams already did similar things.

  28. G Money says:

    Oddspell: Never heard of it but I’d imagine feature-based learning might just be an effective way of discerning player comparables. This is assuming you buy into the stats based evaluation of draft picks (which I think most of us do).

    Very insightful, that’s exactly what I was looking at doing. An SVM basically works as a multi-dimensional classifier relative to a training set. Which means what it will spit out is exactly that – a player comparable.

    What I’m particularly interested in adding to the equation that isn’t accounted for in current models is age, which we know makes a big difference.

  29. PhrankLee says:

    Ducey,

    RexLibris,

    I strongly agree this is what it sounds like. I experience this a lot with my work. One of out partners is livid with the time commitment he is enduring.
    It recently came to light that his entire staff of 5 must get direct approval for each and every email they send!! Take minutes on every telephone conversation they have and submit for review. Unbelievable.

    It seems like Neely has the attitude of..”Go and be a GM of the team but run every trade through me for approval.”

    What’s the point of having the GM in the first place?

    If Bob Nicholson is the “hire the right guys and let them do their jobs” kind of executive it truly may lead to the elusive culture change the club talks about and never truly tackles.

    Hockey Canada would probably confirm this.

  30. rickithebear says:

    Rational Zealot: Good lord.For someone who was already off the deep end you seem to have left the universe.

    He is lying!

    Good lord you want a guy that lies to your face!

    Are you that dumb!

    The structure and timeline statements!

    Sure it was harsh.

    But that is what Murray is telling Buffalo!

    Tim Murray is not wrong.

    Buffalo is following the same process as Edmonton did.

    Deep end?

    One thing I am known for in my 25 years in Industrial industry!

    Looking people in the face!

    Telling them my point of view.

    Giving them an answer!

    Even if it is not what they want to here!

    Even if it sheds a negative light on one of my decisions.

    It lends to 25 years of people not afraid to come to you.

    Babcock is not in a position he is in without respect.

    But it took Toronto 1 day to get him to join the TO way of doing Business!

    Liar!

    They whole hockey world saw that!

  31. Oddspell says:

    G Money: Very insightful, that’s exactly what I was looking at doing.An SVM basically works as a multi-dimensional classifier relative to a training set.Which means what it will spit out is exactly that – a player comparable.

    What I’m particularly interested in adding to the equation that isn’t accounted for in current models is age, which we know makes a big difference.

    Seems like a great idea. SVM seems the way to go. We already all use player comparables, automating and refining the process seems like the logical next step. Definitely keep us updated!

  32. rickithebear says:

    And Zealot:

    We got the better coaching record from the 2010’s.

    So I am concerned with Oilers.

    Better Record!

    No jilted fan base!

  33. stush18 says:

    Whenever i think of the oilers of “past”, i get frustrated. How many teams take there second round picks and sit them all year. And then find out he has mono, and nothing is said about it.

    I really hope he gets a chance next year. Not 4line min with ewanyk.

  34. Rational Zealot says:

    rickithebear,

    You called him a “lying piece of shit.” Think about that for a few minutes.

  35. Tire Fire says:

    rickithebear,

    Your description of how you believe others see you at work is exactly how Babcock is viewed around the league. He is generally known as almost too honest.

  36. Marc says:

    PhrankLee:
    Ducey,

    RexLibris,

    I strongly agree this is what it sounds like. I experience this a lot with my work. One of out partners is livid with the time commitment he is enduring.It recently came to light that his entire staff of 5 must get direct approval for each and every email they send!! Take minutes on every telephone conversation they have and submit for review.Unbelievable.

    It seems like Neely has the attitude of..”Go and be a GM of the team but run every trade through me for approval.”

    What’s the point of having the GM in the first place?

    If Bob Nicholson is the “hire the right guys and let them do their jobs” kind of executive it truly may lead to the elusive culture change the club talks about and never truly tackles.

    Hockey Canada would probably confirm this.

    It’s worse than that. Neely wants all the power, without wanting the work that goes with it.

    Check this out: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/04/15/cam-neely-makes-power-move-bruins-begin-reshaping-for-future/234InOfuBUfSTqdVjKRHRL/story.html

    “Neely said he’s not a micromanager. He has no intention of negotiating contracts, adjusting draft boards, or conducting viewings on 15-year-olds in the USHL.

    He’ll leave the heavy lifting to his GM. Neely likes his title of president. It comes with perks. Right after a game at the Garden, Neely exits the elevator on the third floor, walks to his SUV, and drives away. The GM cannot leave the rink so quickly.

    As president, Neely will instruct his GM to build a roster according to his vision. The GM will then execute the trade calls or draft picks to acquire the players Neely prefers.

    “Get this guy,” Neely will say, or, “I don’t like that guy. Move him.”

  37. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Tire Fire:
    rickithebear,

    Your description of how you believe others see you at work is exactly how Babcock is viewed around the league.He is generally known as almost too honest.

    Added to that, Murray’s seemingly immature reaction to losing the lotto (and winning a generational talent in Eichel). I’d be of the mind set that Murray is becoming unhinged before calling Babcock any bad names.

    I mean, who get’s ready for a presser before they see a signature on a contract?

  38. Lowetide says:

    Please settle the hell down, Ricki. Thanks

  39. rickithebear says:

    Tire Fire:
    rickithebear,

    Your description of how you believe others see you at work is exactly how Babcock is viewed around the league.He is generally known as almost too honest.

    With Detroit.

    Day 1 with Toronto?

    LPOS!

    Does tyat surprise you with Shanahan as the boss!

  40. Klima's_Bucket says:

    McLennan’s Sharks were notorious for rushing prospects through the minor league system. Since Doug Wilson took over in 2003 the Sharks have only had Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn, Kaspar, Staubitz, Joslin, Plihal, Greiss, Ferriero, Irwin, Stalock, Desjardins and Demers play at least 100 games in the AHL before tasting some success in the NHL.

    From that list I count Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn, Greiss, Stalock, Irwin and Demers as players with decent NHL careers. Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn and Greiss were grooming before McLennan’s arrival. Stalock, Irwin and Demers were groomed in the AHL while McLennan manned the Sharks bench.

    Since McLennan’s arrival we’ve seen countless players rushed to the NHL in San Jose with the most rushing happening in the past two seasons.

    The following players were force-fed NHL minutes with minimal AHL time in the past two seasons under McLennan’s watch: Hertl, Nieto, Karlsson, Tierney, Goodrow and Mirco Mueller who was selected 11 spots after Nurse in 2013.

    Mueller is no Nurse. McLennan will have a hell of time keeping Nurse down in the AHL for long, if ever.

  41. rickithebear says:

    Lowetide:
    Please settle the hell down, Ricki. Thanks

    Heck down!

  42. Klima's_Bucket says:

    rickithebear: Does tyat surprise you with Shanahan as the boss!

    I understand you are upset, but just because Shanahan stole his playmaking centre’s wife twenty years ago doesn’t mean you have to drag Shanny’s dirty laundry into this kind good-hearted site.

  43. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    McLennan’s Sharks were notorious for rushing prospects through the minor league system.Since Doug Wilson took over in 2003 the Sharks have only had Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn, Kaspar, Staubitz, Joslin, Plihal, Greiss, Ferriero, Irwin, Stalock, Desjardins and Demers play at least 100 games in the AHL before tasting some success in the NHL.

    From that list I count Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn, Greiss, Stalock, Irwin and Demers as players with decent NHL careers.Clowe, Goc, Murray, McGinn and Greiss were grooming before McLennan’s arrival.Stalock, Irwin and Demers were groomed in the AHL while McLennan manned the Sharks bench.

    Since McLennan’s arrival we’ve seen countless players rushed to the NHL in San Jose with the most rushing happening in the past two seasons.

    The following players were force-fed NHL minutes with minimal AHL time in the past two seasons under McLennan’s watch: Hertl, Nieto, Karlsson, Tierney, Goodrow and Mirco Mueller who was selected 11 spots after Nurse in 2013.

    Mueller is no Nurse.McLennan will have a hell oftime keeping Nurse down in the AHL for long, if ever.

    Most of those guys performed pretty well. Hertl had a great rookie season, and then when he had a step back of a second year his production could be shifted to scrubs like Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, etc. at forward and Pickles, Boyle, Burns, etc. on D. That’s a lot different than sheltering guys with Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, and a still very young Sam Gagner. All of which were good players in their own right, but the SJ crew they are not.

    Young kids in the NHL is OK. Young kids expected to carry the load is the problem. I’m not convinced SJ has done a terrible job in this respect. It’s basically a wider version of the “Hamilton had Chara/Seidenberg/Boychuck/Ference to shelter him” conversation over at Oilers Nation.

    Oh, and pinning that all on the coach is a tough one.

  44. Yeti says:

    rickithebear,

    Still not got those damned interior doors installed?

  45. rickithebear says:

    my 4 year olds first day of kindergarten.
    Buddy day!
    Off to see how that went!

    Not fibbing!

  46. rickithebear says:

    Yeti:
    rickithebear,

    Still not got those damned interior doors installed?

    Yup!

    Had to dig out 2/3 of a yard of dirt out of my egress forms with one of those little hand held gardening shovel for 5 hours.

    I may unknowingly be very sore and pissy!

    Neighbor said it is like cleaning a kitchen floor with a toothbrush!

  47. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    rickithebear,

    Have a snickers before you go, Riki!

  48. G Money says:

    rickithebear,

    I still think you should change your moniker to RickiTheSpaceBear. It just works.

  49. rickithebear says:

    The age nhle math said Hertl was the 4th most productive fwd in his draft.
    He was not rushed!

  50. TheGreatMutato says:

    Yeti,

    At this point they should lock from the outside and be doors to a padded room. <3 Ricki but no TV and no beer is making you something something.

  51. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Off topic, but has anyone heard what’s happening with Dellow recently?

  52. Tire Fire says:

    rickithebear,

    If someone with a 10-15 year reputation of honest interactions gets accused of suddenly lying once for no reason, I’d tend to question the accuser’s reputation/motivation first.

    Don’t you think that is what your co-workers would do given your reputation?

  53. leadfarmer says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1),

    Well Played !!

  54. Jon K says:

    Lowetide,

    All the positive happenings for the Oilers this offseason has the fans back into it! No apathy here anymore it would seem.

  55. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    When LT mentioned McLennan’s track record with the AHL I thought I’d put forward more info on his background with young players cracking NHL rosters under his watch.
    And I agree with you, I think McLennan did a wonderful job meshing the youth in up front.
    However, I don’t think they handled Mirco Mueller’s transition to the NHL well at all and his development is definitely askew.
    Is that on the coach that paired Mueller with Burns as he struggled transitioning back to D at the start of the year and killed the kids confidence?
    Is that on the coach that then made him a healthy scratch for almost half of the season?
    I would like to lay the blame on Doug Wilson, but I don’t think it was Wilson’s choice who Mueller plays with and who gets scratched from the lineup.

  56. Ducey says:

    G Money:
    rickithebear,

    I still think you should change your moniker to RickiTheSpaceBear.It just works.

    LT is going to have to go down to the corner store and get some more exclamation marks. Ricki has used them all up.

  57. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Yost with the most (once again).

  58. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    rickithebear,

    Its not at all appropriate to try and read between the lines of Babcocks actions or intentions with respect to him evaluating his next employment opportunity. To call him a liar and a POS is most certainly inappropriate. View it from this lens, the man has earned the right to evaluate all his opportunities. He honored his contract with Detroit in full. He has delivered in his capacity as coach whenever it was set before him as a challenge – whether in a professional capacity or as a nationalist in international competition. He is accomplished (with very few contemporaries) and by all accounts deeply principled, always well prepared and setting a high bar example of hard work and dedication to craft. Although others have characterized his evaluation process as a ‘circus’ it seems to me he made it efficient – tempered with enough time to engage and contemplate and then make the decision. How can you condemn the man’s character for understanding and investigating what his next challenge might be and selecting it? I have no doubt he gave Buffalo ample consideration, but the decision was entirely his own to make for his own personal reasons. That has to be respected.

  59. Ducey says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    I would like to lay the blame on Doug Wilson, but I don’t think it was Wilson’s choice who Mueller plays with and who gets scratched from the lineup.

    Could be on Wilson. If TMc told Wilson that Mueller needed to go back to the AHL and Wilson said “No, he is staying in the NHL,” that might explain why Mueller sat.

  60. doritogrande says:

    C Jujhar Khaira: I see people lumping Bogdan and Jujhar in together, not sure that acknowledges the differences in offensive ability. Khaira did spike in the playoffs (8GP, 3-1-4) but small sample size and most of it came from one game. Next season should see him in more of a feature role, but the difference in offense between Yakimov

    Leon, Yak, Platzer and (possibly) Roy say “probably at wing.”

    Lots of skill moving to Bakersfield this offseason, some of these big guys with trouble posting numbers will get passed, with defensive acumen not being much of a consideration.

    Also, you’ve got Winquist labelled as a D.

  61. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Ducey: Could be on Wilson. If TMc told Wilson that Mueller needed to go back to the AHL and Wilson said “No, he is staying in the NHL,” that might explain why Mueller sat.

    Only problem is Mueller wasn’t eligible for the AHL as he was in the same position as Nurse either back to Everett or in San Jose.
    I think Wilson bungled up keeping Mueller around in the NHL as he would have been better served dominating in the WHL like Nurse did in the OHL.
    But I do think McLellan could have better handled Mueller since he was stuck with him in San Jose.

  62. PhrankLee says:

    Lowetide,

    C Jujhar Khaira: I see people lumping Bogdan and Jujhar in together, not sure that acknowledges the differences in offensive ability. Khaira did spike in the playoffs (8GP, 3-1-4) but small sample size and most of it came from one game. Next season should see him in more of a feature role, but the difference in offense between Yakimov (.491 to 1.96 ppg during regular season) is substantial and history tells us it’ll likely stay that way.

    I see Khaira as a candidate to take over from Boyd Gordon, honestly. Somebody is going to have to assume the mantle soon.

    Lander has too much value at 3C, imo.

  63. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Klima’s_Bucket,

    Fair enough, I guess my reaction was more to the idea that you made a long list of guys who were rushed, so as to suggest that it was a chronic problem.

    Mueller could very well have been a mistake, I’ll give you that one. But it’s still just one example, so pointing out Hertl, Nieto, Karlsson, Tierney, Goodrow along side him imply a bigger problem that, in my opinion, isn’t there.

    Fair?

  64. Pouzar says:

    Bogdan > Khaira

  65. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Pouzar,

    I can’t imagine anyone arguing otherwise.

  66. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    They’re going to have to hold the prospect camp at Rexall this year.

  67. Pouzar says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: Pouzar, I can’t imagine anyone arguing otherwise.

    And I like Khaira.

    No doubt Yak2 can play 4th line right now. His defensive game is beyond his years. He almost cheats for defense so no worries on that front.

  68. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    Fair.
    And McLennan will also have the luxury of sending Nurse to the AHL this season, a luxury he didn’t have with Mueller last year.
    In McLennan we trust!

  69. PhrankLee says:

    Pouzar: No doubt Yak2 can play 4th line right now.

    I agree with this. But his offensive potential needs to be put to use first, I think.

    I’d put him on the wing in the middle 6.

    If Khaira is at his offensive zenith he still has defensive chops, size, a bit of an attitude and is very fast. Who else in the system is going to sled it tough like Gordo? He needs an apprentice. That job is open after next year, even earlier perhaps.

    I love the guy but I do not think we extend Gordon.

  70. Bad Seed says:

    rickithebear: Heck down!

    I knew Ricki was gonna be in trouble when Dad got home.

  71. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Bad Seed: I knew Ricki was gonna be in trouble when Papa Bear got home.

    Fixed.

  72. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Pouzar:
    Bogdan > Khaira

    Bogdan ≥ Drago

  73. Pouzar says:

    PhrankLee: I agree with this. But his offensive potential needs to be put to use first, I think.

    I agree with this. Hopefully it’s first/second minutes with Bakersfield with Slepy riding shotgun. hey played together at the World Jrs so that would be a nice pair. Yakimov is sooo good as a Center it would kill me to see him on the wing but it will be tough to crack Nuge-McJ-Drai-Lenin.
    I think Khaira, OTOH, is perfect for the wing. Big, good straight line speed, defensively responsible and loves to hit. #moarbig

  74. Saul Goodman says:

    Yeti,

    As a Norwegian, Patrick Thoresen short stint was one of my main reason the a fellow the Oilers with extra passion after the Gretzky/Messier era. Thoresen has been one of the best foreigner in KHLs history. He elevated his game to another gear during SKA St.Peterburg comeback in the semis & finals in the Gargarin cup this year. Scored the winner in the final game.

    Regular season:
    P G A TP PPG PIM +/-
    KHL: 292 117 165 282 0.97 256 132
    Playoffs.
    98 27 55 82 0.84 87 38

    Thoresen probably lacks some speed and size, but he plays hard goes to the dirty areas and is sound in his positional play. This is the season that “Everyone leaves Putin” due the economy. Patrick figured that he could earn $2 mill a year playing 1rd line minutes was better that grind in out (and the uncertainty) playing 12-14 minutes a night in a lesser NHL club.

    Thoresen next stop; Djurgarden (SHL)

    Funfacts: Patrick Thoresen father coaches the best club in Norway; Stavanger Oilers!

  75. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    I know the source is dubious, at best, but this is…

    Follow

    steve simmonsVerified account
    ‏@simmonssteve
    More good news for Leafs. Word is John Ferguson Jr being promoted to asst GM with Bruins. Honest.

  76. neojanus says:

    I think Toronto was Babcock’s target all along and I never liked the media buffet that swarmed around his free agency from the beginning. I also got a very strange vibe from Babcock watching him in that TSN interview. He was free to make his decision; he made it; life goes on. I think Toronto was silly to offer that much and I sense that this will turn into a curse for both parties… especially if Toronto is outside looking in three years down the road. I don’t see that many teams in the East playing themselves out of the top eight any time soon.

    Toronto isn’t poor because of coaching (neither were the Oilers really). Toronto is poor because the team structure is fundamentally flawed. Babcock’s win percentage might be shining, but that’s about to change in Toronto.

    I am so glad the Oilers stayed out of that gong show. I think they got the best man for the job in McLellan and I look forward to seeing what he does with the very bright, talented, and unrealized potential on the Oilers.

    There are a lot of great players that are still going to get better.

    I like McLellan’s Oilers’ chances of success much much more than Babcock’s Leafs’ chances.

  77. stush18 says:

    Saul Goodman:
    Yeti,

    Patrick figured that he could earn $2 mill a year playing 1rd line minutes was better that grind in out (and the uncertainty) playing 12-14 minutes a night in a lesser NHL.

    You sure he doesnt want to play 2st line min? I heard even 3nd would be preferable.

  78. Kmart99 says:

    I can’t wait to see how Babcock handles Kessel.

  79. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Kmart99:
    I can’t wait to see how Babcock handles Kessel.

    Babcock is a good Saskatchewan kid, so he’ll probably drive him to the airport. Might even help him move if Phil buy’s pizza and beer.

  80. Pouzar says:

    •Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun: Sources saying the Sabres, Oilers and Sharks called the Senators about Robin Lehner before the Senators locked up Andrew Hammond for three years. Some teams may be more interested in Craig Anderson, who doesn’t have a no-movement clause. There will be more interest in Lehner due to his age and upside potential. The Oilers are young and may want a young goalie to grow with the team. The Oilers have the forwards to offer the Senators. The Sharks may be one team that would be more interested in Anderson.
    The Senators have held contract talks with Mike Hoffman, Mark Stone, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Mika Zibanejad and Alex Chiasson.

  81. stush18 says:

    neojanus:
    I think Toronto was Babcock’s target all along and I never liked the media buffet that swarmed around his free agency from the beginning. I also got a very strange vibe from Babcock watching him in that TSN interview. He was free to make his decision; he made it; life goes on. I think Toronto was silly to offer that much and I sense that this will turn into a curse for both parties… especially if Toronto is outside looking in three years down the road. I don’t see that many teams in the East playing themselves out of the top eight any time soon.

    Toronto isn’t poor because of coaching (neither were the Oilers really). Toronto is poor because the team structure is fundamentally flawed. Babcock’s win percentage might be shining, but that’s about to change in Toronto.

    I am so glad the Oilers stayed out of that gong show. I think they got the best man for the job in McLellan and I look forward to seeing what he does with the very bright, talented, and unrealized potential on the Oilers.

    There are a lot of great players that are still going to get better.

    I like McLellan’s Oilers’ chances of success much much more than Babcock’s Leafs’ chances.

    Not to encourage DSF, but i dont think toronto is as far behind in there rebuild as some would suggest.

    Phaneuf- they will have to eat salary, no doubt about it. Babcock will have to decide if he could be useful. Trade with dallas with money retained for radek faksa?

    Kessel- he will follow the footsteps of those before him and fetch a 1st, a prospect, and roster player. Despite all his faults, he has value. Ive heard florida and calgary. What about to florida for a 1st, 2nd, trochek? Grimaldi? Florida has the prospects to acquire him.

    Lupul- im not sure he has to be moved, but it could be bias cuz ive always like him. Brian burke connection?

    Reimer- not a sellers market, you would think he could be part of the kessel deal to florida?

    They have some vets in place like polak and robidas, and have reilly and gardiner. Gardiner is no world beater, but he is good, and much better now that carlyle is gone.

    There forward corps will hold onto kadri, jvr, bozak, panik, holland

    Their prospects arent as barren as we are led to believe. Nylander, brown, finn, leivo, Percy, leipsic, and gauthier. We are a long ways from five years on these guys, and gauthier is the only prospect not showing positive arrows.

    Combine that with two selections in the 1st round this year where the leafs could draft strome/marner/hanifin, as well as chabot/kylington/etc, and the leafs dont look as bad.

    They will have a tough couple years, but it might be quicker than we think

  82. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    Please settle the hell down, Ricki. Thanks

    Sorry, I missed all the fun, but all I could think of when I saw this post and the time stamp was:

    “Don’t make me pull this radio show over, Ricki! I’ll do it and you won’t like it when I do.”

  83. rickithebear says:

    Well Oiled and Enthusiastic:
    rickithebear,

    Its not at all appropriate to try and read between the lines of Babcocks actions or intentions with respect to him evaluating his next employment opportunity. To call him a liar and a POS is most certainly inappropriate. View it from this lens, the man has earned the right to evaluate all his opportunities. He honored his contract with Detroit in full. He has delivered in his capacity as coach whenever it was set before him as a challenge – whether in a professional capacity or as a nationalist in international competition. He is accomplished (with very few contemporaries) and by all accounts deeply principled, always well prepared and setting a high bar example of hard work and dedication to craft. Although others have characterized his evaluation process as a ‘circus’ it seems to me he made it efficient – tempered with enough time to engage and contemplate and then make the decision. How can you condemn the man’s character for understanding and investigating what his next challenge might be and selecting it? I have no doubt he gave Buffalo ample consideration, but the decision was entirely his own to make for his own personal reasons. That has to be respected.

    When dealing with anything.
    You have an inventory of what your expectations for what you are seeking.

    Buffalo did not meet his inventory from the start.
    Based on his comments re: job.
    Based on his comments re: condo discussion with friends.
    Based on his comments re: empty nest.
    Based on knowledge of Toronto’s Financial willingness.
    Buffalo meet his desire to maximize his income.

    He played them along to a Pegula willingness to spend.
    People will say that is business.

    Murray called him out!
    The negotiation was not in good faith.
    POS act and a lie.

    Embrace it! Mike!

    When a player hurt my teamates.
    I was a scummy violent opponent.
    Teamates loved it and opponents targeted me.
    I embraced the role.
    RTF: Richard the F………

    Off the field, that is not me.

    Up until now and outside the game.
    That is probably not Mike.

    But it was yesterday!

  84. theres oil in virginia says:

    Yeti: This unlikely coincidence have led some to speculate that Steve Tambellini and DSF are in fact one and the same, a little like Clark Kent and Superman.

    More like Dr. Dolittle and Mr. Hyde.

  85. Dashingsilverfox says:

    stush18,

    Another possible landing sport for Kessel that I’ve seen mentioned in a few places is New Jersey.

    The Devils are desperate for scoring and could offer up the 6th overall pick (Matt Barzal or Lawson Crouse?) and Eric Gelinas who is reported to be available.

  86. rickithebear says:

    Tire Fire:
    rickithebear,

    If someone with a 10-15 year reputation of honest interactions gets accused of suddenly lying once for no reason, I’d tend to question the accuser’s reputation/motivation first.

    Don’t you think that is what your co-workers would do given your reputation?

    When dealing with equipment that can Kill.
    you do not let reputation affect concern.
    Do not sugar coat!
    It kills!

    All the power to him for setting up his family for a long time.

    I am not going to sugar coat how it was done!

    Good luck with the leafs.

  87. stush18 says:

    Dashingsilverfox:
    stush18,

    Another possible landing sport for Kessel that I’ve seen mentioned in a few places is New Jersey.

    The Devils are desperate for scoring and could offer up the 6th overall pick (Matt Barzal or Lawson Crouse?)and Eric Gelinas who is reported to be available.

    I dont know why they would do that. They have nothing for prospects, and are far from competing. Elias wants out. Clowe is done.

    If i was toronto i would do it in a heartbeat tho.

  88. Ducey says:

    Dashingsilverfox:
    stush18,

    Another possible landing sport for Kessel that I’ve seen mentioned in a few places is New Jersey.

    The Devils are desperate for scoring and could offer up the 6th overall pick (Matt Barzal or Lawson Crouse?)and Eric Gelinas who is reported to be available.

    Over half of their roster is 30+. Many are well past done. They have little in the way of prospects, were terrible last year and have missed the playoffs three years in a row.

    If Shero starts his tenure by trading youth for Kessel, he isn’t getting it.

    Anyway, Phil isn’t waiving his NMC to go to NJ.

  89. spoiler says:

    stush18: You sure he doesnt want to play 2st line min? I heard even 3nd would be preferable.

    Have you considered the possibility that the original poster might not be a native English speaker?

    Do we really need posters here making fun of those Europeans who drop by and join the discussion?

  90. anonymous says:

    The crying out of Buffalo is ridiculous. That’s how free agency works, highest bidder. it’s like crying over losing a lottery.

  91. kinger_OIL says:

    spoiler: Have you considered the possibility that the original poster might not be a native English speaker?

    Do we really need posters here making fun of those Europeans who drop by and join the discussion?

    Yeah – I agree: some people are harsh: this is LT’s blog: not a roaster. Even Ricki: just because he gets hot over Babcock’s obvious negociating tactics: I don’t see why he needs to be piled on. Bad spelling, or strong opinions needn’t be mocked.

  92. Adam Wu says:

    If you play entirely within the rules to maximize your own position, and I like the ultimate outcome, you’re a smart negotiator. The worse I could call you is “ruthless”, with a hint of admiration.

    If you play entirely within the rules to maximize your own position, and Rickithebear does not like the ultimate outcome, you’re a dishonest POS.

    Nothing Babcock did re: Buffalo is against any written or unwritten rules of negotiating, in any field of human endeavor whatsoever. Indeed, he went above and beyond what is required in those unwritten rules, and made his requirements and considerations a matter of public record (whereas in ALL fields of human endeavor it is accepted and considered perfectly acceptable that a candidate keep some of those requirements private if he wishes to.)

    I will repeat, again, that they were on the PUBLIC RECORD. You now, that record which everyone, including Buffalo, had access to. Thus, Buffalo had all the information they needed to know, if that was indeed the case, that they did not meet his “requirements”, and thus could have chosen NOT to pursue him.

    That, it appears, is what Chia did.

    CAVEAT EMPTOR. For once it is gratifying to see Oilers management not fall into this trap while someone else does.

    And as for standards of “honesty” in dealing with coaches and coaching candidates, Murray and Buffalo need to take a good long look in the mirror at exactly how they have treated Ted Nolan this year, and indeed over many years. As far as I am concerned, what happened to them with respect to Babcock (and McDavid, too) is the perfect karma for how they’ve been conducting themselves on these fronts.

  93. Магия 10 says:

    Is Mac-T over at Kingsway today or is he in Tranna giving Backcock that great media advice to tout the Leaf’s as Canada’s team?

    Panning @patmanning14 · 3h 3 hours ago “Canada’s team”….maybe Canada’s golf team

  94. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    anonymous:
    The crying out of Buffalo is ridiculous. That’s how free agency works, highestbidder.it’slike crying over losing a lottery.

    Well some reports put Buffalo’s bid higher than Toronto’s, but you’re right – they can’t have thought that they were negotiating exclusively with Babcock. Until you see his signature on the contract, planning the presser is a tad premature.

    And only after they lost out on Babs, did they contact other coaches like Bylsma, or at least that’s how it seems, filtered through the media. Toronto had already interviewed Boucher before Babcock, proving that they knew how the process worked, and wanted to cover a lot of options.

  95. Adam Wu says:

    rickithebear: When dealing with equipment that can Kill.
    you do not let reputation affect concern.
    Do not sugar coat!
    It kills!

    How fortunate it is then that no lives are or will likely be on the line over the question of which hockey team Mike Babcock ends up coaching for.

  96. Adam Wu says:

    It is so gratifying (and novel!) to participate in a discuss about some hypothetical option that another team may consider, that is monumentally stupid, without having that little frisson, deep inside, of thinking that if Oilers management were in the same position, they would likely be doing it!

  97. Younger Oil says:

    Pouzar:
    •Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun: Sources saying the Sabres, Oilers and Sharks called the Senators about Robin Lehner before the Senators locked up Andrew Hammond for three years. Some teams may be more interested in Craig Anderson, who doesn’t have a no-movement clause. There will be more interest in Lehner due to his age and upside potential. The Oilers are young and may want a young goalie to grow with the team. The Oilers have the forwards to offer the Senators. The Sharks may be one team that would be more interested in Anderson.
    The Senators have held contract talks with Mike Hoffman, Mark Stone, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Mika Zibanejad and Alex Chiasson.

    Huh. I can’t think of any forwards on our roster that I’d want to give up for Lehner, unless it was part of a bigger deal. Especially since Lehner is far from a safe bet. Ottawa has lots of nice pieces though.

    The only deals that I can think of involving Oiler forwards that would even mildly make sense for each team would be:

    Lander for Lehner

    Draisaitl for Lazar and Lehner

    Yak and Schultz for Lehner and Ceci

    I’m not even sure if I’d want to do those deals, let alone Ottawa.

    I find it odd that Ottawa would be asking for a forward considering they already have a very well rounded forward group that is as young as ours.

  98. Магия 10 says:

    Adam Wu:
    It is so gratifying (and novel!) to participate in a discuss about some hypothetical option that another team may consider, that is monumentally stupid, without having that little frisson, deep inside, of thinking that if Oilers management were in the same position, they would likely be doing it!

    No lives were lost in the pressing of this DVD.

  99. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Adam Wu,

    I picture the entire OBC flying out to woo Babcock, including a visit from Messier and a phone call from Coffey, and then a handshake agreement that is shot down in the final minutes by Mrs Babs. All the while, Tambi left back at Kingsway to man the phones, just in case Lombardi calls back about that offer for Doughty…

  100. Ducey says:

    Wayne likes Connor. Janet predicted the lottery win.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Connor+McDavid+Wayne+Gretzky+Edmonton/11071833/story.html

    He said his family watched the NHL’s draft lottery closely on April 18 and that his wife Janet had predicted that the Oilers would jump ahead to win the top pick and, presumably, McDavid.

    “My wife told me Edmonton was going to win the pick that day,” said Gretzky. “That was the day that I retired 16 years ago. So, she said, for whatever reason, the Oilers have good luck today. Connor McDavid went to Edmonton.”

  101. anonymous says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1),

    There’s a fine line, I believe a handshake’s a handshake but there’s no indication that that was the case. So in the Nylander case a few years back I’d say he broke the deal but in this case it sounds just like many other free agent negotiations. It’d be like Mact calling out Clarkson for not taking the perceived better deal a couple off years ago. IMO.

  102. oilswell says:

    G Money:
    Wow … I just cannot get this comment to post.Something in here is confusing the hell out of the system.Maybe it’s threatened by the concept of using AI?!

    – start problem comment –

    Completely off topic, but I’ve got a spare couple of hours and, after some idle experimentation, am wondering if anyone here has heard of any attempts to use machine learning algorithms (e.g. neural nets, SVMs), to evaluate draft picks?

    Wondering if it will produce more valid and/or interesting results than the straight multiple regression that is de rigeur, but don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

    – end problem comment –

    Yes, I tried that and got some interesting results. One model identified Skinner as a target of interest before the draft. I took the ohl data for 6 years prior and the draft records from hockeydb. I used info gain and past work on factor analysis to limit feature set. I did have to use computed features based on how much the players contribute compares to the team they were on, IIRC. (I had the event data parsed from the score sheets but used composite measures for the features obviously).

    Even if you don’t trust the models for prediction it is fun to look at decision trees if you train them.

  103. fifthcartel says:

    I’d be interested in Lehner.

    I was listening to Rishaug on Nielson & Fraser and he mentioned Talbot as the #1 guy he thinks they should get. He said the 1st for Talbot is unlikely because it’s too much, maybe #33 and something, but definitely expects Chiarelli to solve the goaltending on draft day.

  104. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    anonymous,

    I was merely imagining how past mgmt regimes might have handled the search for a coach. Not inferring that Babs backed out of a handshake deal with Buffalo.

  105. stush18 says:

    spoiler: Have you considered the possibility that the original poster might not be a native English speaker?

    Do we really need posters here making fun of those Europeans who drop by and join the discussion?

    Have you considered that the original poster made a simple typo and i was making a small attempt at humour?

    Apologies to the original poster, if i offended you in any way by making jokes about the one mistake in your otherwise well written post.

    I guess the mcdavid cheer is wearing off.

  106. anonymous says:

    @ bold over(5-14-6-1)
    I got that. Just find it funny how Buffalo views this.

  107. Магия 10 says:

    Ducey: Wayne likes Connor. Janet predicted the lottery win

    But did she drop a dime on it?

  108. Yeti says:

    rickithebear: Yup!

    Had to dig out 2/3 of a yard of dirt out of my egress forms with one of those little hand held gardening shovel for 5 hours.

    I may unknowingly be very sore and pissy!

    Neighbor said it is like cleaning a kitchen floor with a toothbrush!

    I hear you Ricki – I’m feeling pissy because my significant Yeti other wants me to re-paint the front porch. I grumble but then she gives me that look and I start to dig out the brushes. That said, try not to growl at the other posters 😉

  109. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    anonymous,

    Yeah, it’s a head-scratcher for sure. The only thing worse than their perspective on those negotiations, is that they had to publicly whinge about it.

  110. Yeti says:

    Saul Goodman,

    It was a sad day for me when Thoresen got placed on waivers and then plucked by Phili. I’ve always felt he could have been a great complementary part for a team. That said, he’s had great success in the KHL and no NHL team has made him an offer that’s been significant to turn his head back to the NHL. Am I right in thinking he once blocked a shot with his Norwegian manhood and spent some time in hospital for his efforts? That’s dedication to the cause!

  111. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Магия 10: But did she drop a dime on it?

    Ding ding ding!

  112. rickithebear says:

    The only option buffalo has is to not foo business with TO.
    That may not be smart if the business helps your team.

  113. SwedishPoster says:

    I don’t know if some of you remember but a couple of months ago I did this thing where I checked up the top 6ers and #3Cs in the NHL to see what their draft year numbers looked like and what leagues they came from, which rounds they were drafted and so on. This was on the basis of MacTs comments that they should only be looking for guys projecting as top 6 fwds, #3Cs and top 4 D in the draft since those positions are tough to fill in other ways. Which imo makes sense, no point in chasing guys with 4th line upside.
    The idea was to see if there’s any pattern in the production of a draft eligible player to suggest they have that kind of upside. Or really when to stay away, what kind of numbers suggest that this is a bad egg and what suggests a good bet to become an impact player. I’m not going to rewrite the whole thing on the forwards again, I’ll put everything together in a better format once I’ve done with this little study, but I’ve done the D&G now after a long hiatus due to that thing called life and I thought I’ll share some of that today for anyone interested.

    So basically what I’ve done is I’ve looked at every top 4 D in the league and checked their production in their actual draft year so not the year they were drafted but the year they we eligible, there is ofc some subjectivity in this since for some teams you lack four players in that mold(Hello Oilers) and for other teams there are more than four. Ideally I think a top 4 D should either be able to carry a pairing for 20 + mins a night with ok results or be stellar as the second fiddle(Oduya comes to mind). Some guys are borderline, in those cases I’ve been inclusive, they are at the very least 100% real live NHL d-men which as we all are painfully aware of, aren’t that easy to come by. I’m sure I’ve included and excluded some guys wrongly but the bigger picture shouldn’t be too skewed. So anyway this is what I gathered:

    *Just like with the forwards, the OHL had the majority of the top 4 D with 25 guys, 17 had a PPG of 0,50 or higher. Of the guys who didn’t hit 0,50 seven were OHL rookies in their draft year. The only non-rookie to not hit 0,50 was Marc Staal with 0,40.

    *Almost half the OHL guys(12 players) had a PPG over 0,75. Or 11 of the 17 non-rookies(Cam Fowler hit 1,00 ppg in his rookie year).

    *The WHL provided 21 top 4 D. 14 had a PPG over 0,50 in their draft year. 4 out of 7 guys below 0,50 were rookies. The three non-rookies to not hit the mark were. Phaneuf(0,42 but with a 0,23 GPG), Coburn(0,36 though in his -1 draft year as a rookie he had around 0,54 so he hit the mark the year before) and Tyler Myers(0,29).

    *8 out of 21 WHLers were above 0,75.

    *Only 5 top 4 D out of the QMJHL. Only one with a PPG over 0,50, Beauchemin who hit 0,67. Two draft year rookies. Two guys who hit 0,43 and 0,48 respectively.

    *The CHL as a whole provided 51 of the NHLs top 4 D. 32/51 had over half a point per game. 13 out of the 19 who didn’t hit half a PPG were rookies in their draft year and a majority of them hit the mark the 2nd year in the league. That leaves 6 guys, 4 of who had 0,40 or higher plus Coburn who had 0,36 his draft year but 0,54 the year before and Tyler Myers who’s the true outlier. So only one non-rookie out of the CHL had never hit at least 0,40 in his draft year and he’s an absolute mountain of a man with great skating. The idea that production is meaningless when looking at D might be somewhat overstated.

    *9 players played lower NA junior in their draft year, pretty much all of them went undrafted or were drafted in their +1,+2 year of eligibility, usually after changing league and showing their strut against better competition.

    *Their production ranged from 0,26 to 1,53 though 7 of 9(trekkie masturbation reference!!!) scored 0,52 or more.

    *Six guys came out of the USDP, 5 with over half a point per game(Trouba had 0,44 in his draft year).

    *For both D and F it seems like the USDP guys rarely hit the crazy numbers, my guess is since it’s a pure developement program no guys are given the massive minutes given to star players in the junior leagues so it’s hard putting up the insane PPGs.

    *Eight players played in the USHS system their draft year, in most cases putting up crooked numbers ranging from 0,57 to 2,24. 6 of 8 above 1 PPG.

    *THree players, all rookies, spent their draft year in the USHL with 0,45, 0,73 and 0,80 respectively.

    *Eight guys played the SHL or allsvenskan(second tier in sweden) their draft eligible year. Noone hit half a point per game. Victor Hedman had 0,49 in his draft year in the SHL, OEL hit 0,44 in Allsvenskan. Most guys barely hit 0,10, though they usually had better numbers in the U20 league earlier years but nothing really crazy, though Hedman had over 0,70 his draft year -2 before becoming an SHL regular the next season.

    *Four guys played in the lower swedish mens leagues, from third down to fifth tier, noone putting up more than 0,44 PPG.

    *6 players spent the majority of their draft eligible year in the Swe U20 league, PPG ranging from 0,19 to 0,97(Erik Karlsson, who played some games in the SHL that year looking like a complete mess giving away the puck, missing assignments, losing battles and looking like his hockey IQ was lacking big time)

    *So in total Sweden has 18 guys, a lot of them on the younger side, it’s been a real good spot for D the last few years.

    *Five players played the russian top leagues(first and second tier), none with a PPG above 0,28, mainly not moving the dial at all in their draft year.

    *One player each from the NLA, Fin-1 and Cze-1 leagues PPG between 0,15 and 0,29.

    *Two guys came out of Slovak juniors putting up 0,45(Chara in his draft +1 year, no numbers from the year before) and 0,38. And one player out of the Fin-U20 0,50 PPG.

    *The German third tier has given us two top 4 D in Seidenberg and Erhoff(0,77 and 0,37 respectively)

    *No players out of the MHL or even the KHL(all russians came out of the previous leagues), which speaks to the fact that D takes time and these are fairly new leagues, especially the MHL which I believe is probably still underscouted. Some might ofc be attributed to russia struggling with developing quality D though I think with the MHL that might be changing.

    *No guys who spent their draft years in the NCAA either, Hanifin and Werenski are pilots though draft +1 years suggests they are doing very well.

    *I also looked at the +/- in those cases I could find the info, not that conclusive though it seemed most of the top guys out ot the CHL had a + at the end of the year but far from everyone and probably very much depending on the quality of their respective team.

    *I tried to look for clues where the offense translated from junior to the bigs. For euro leagues it was tricky since the PPG in general wasn’t that impressive, Erik Karlsson 0,97 PPG with a 0,34 GPG in the Swe U20 was the only real standout though in that context OEL and Hedman hitting over 0,40 PPG in the top two swedish leagues suggests offensive upside. In the NA junior leagues a GPG over at least 0,20 seemed to be more important than if their PPG was 0,60 or 1,20. The top prospects in the CHL usually plays a ton so they likely gather quite a few 2nd assists and that probably don’t say too much about offensive skills, so it makes sense that GPG is more of a clue.

    *Despite quite a few of the elite guys being 6’2 or above the majority (~60%) of the top 4 D were 6’1 or smaller.

    Based on these numbers I made some “draft rules” similar to those I made for the forwards. Clearly huge production doesn’t seem as a important but if a guy won’t put up anything against other juniors you probably could use some caution. As always you have to look at the actual player and how he plays on the ice. Context is always important. These “rules” are mainly to be considered as warning signs and a bit of a heads up on which players who might be interesting. The rules I’d have in mind when drafting D based on these numbers are as follows:

    -If a player doesn’t put up 0,40 PPG against juniors there better be something to explain it or he better have some extreme raw tools, no matter the round, no matter how much of tools/size/grit/cool attitude the kid has you need to do your homework and be damn sure it’s not just a good junior player but not much more you’ve seen, this is similar to not hitting 1 PPG as a fwd. You should also keep in mind that the majority of the guys making it hit above the 0,40 mark, ideally the player you’re looking at should be above 0,50.

    -A good explanation is being a rookie, rookie numbers as for fwds, always takes a hit. This goes for pretty much any league but especially for guys coming from a lower level of play to one of the stronger junior leagues or guys making the jump from Europe to NA.

    -The Q doesn’t seem to do very well for D. And the nmubers didn’t have much of a pattern either. Be extra careful with D from the Q.

    -The PPG against juniors doesn’t really hold as strongly in the euro junior leagues where 2nd assists are tougher to come by, the toi is usually more evenly spread around and the league average is lower as for as scroing is concerned. Anyone putting up 0,60 or above is actually doing very well. Not a single player I looked up put up more than Erik Karlssons 0,97, the closest player had 0,66 though some of the guys who made the mens team had around 0,70 or similar in small sample sizes. Points are harder to come by in Europe and even more so for D since 2nd assists are much more rare than in NA.

    -Good GPG translates better than racking up the helpers if you look for offense from the back end. Somewhat obvious I know.

    -You can’t really draw much of a conclusion from not scoring in the better euro men leagues, if a guy even makes the better euro leagues at 17-18 is a very good sign going forward so don’t be scared about numbers in the 0,10 range or lower. Over 0,40 is absolutely stellar for a 17-18 year old in those leagues and even 0,20 is very very rare, it likely shows you play over 15 mins a night which is a great feat at that age.

    -The best prospects usually have a strong +/- but not surprisingly it’s not that conclusive.

    -NCAA doesn’t have much for draft eligible players but my guess is the truth is somewhere between CHL and playing against men in europe numbers.

    I also looked at the goalies and surprise surprise they’re pretty much uhm voodoo. I found 27 guys I’d argue are at least somewhat capable starters, 16 were drafted after round 2, 11 were drafted in their draft +1 or later(two undrafted). Most guys had at least one season where they put up good numbers in some league of some quality. In junior leagues, with less D and more scoring a Sv% over .910 is pretty damn good, over .900 as a draftee is solid enough. The Sv% ranged from .836 to .941 in their draft year so it’s not any clear patterns though most guys had some previous year with numbers over 910-920.

    The rule:
    -There are no rules for goalies. I guess spend your late round picks looking for gems might be the closest to a rule. Outside the draft make a ton of free agent bets. See what sticks. I guess you at least make sure the kid you pick has had at least one stellar season.

    As I stated before I’ll put all my work together in a better, more digestible layout once it’s done.
    The next step is to look at the draft busts from this point of view and see if the rules I made holds up or are in need of some adjustments. I’ll also look at the Oiler picks the last few years in this regard and see who can be considered good and bad bets based on these ideas. I’ll also look at this years draft to see which picks you should stay away from and which are undervalued based on this little exercise. I’ll keep you posted. Hope you enjoy it.

  114. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Staples over at CoH is gushing about Davidson and Nurse being ready to compete for roster spots next season, based on their performance in the AHL playoffs. Not necessarily guaranteeing that they’ll make it, but that they should be considered.

    Having watched none of the Barons’ playoff games myself, can anyone comment on that?

  115. frjohnk says:

    SwedishPoster,

    good stuff

    SwedishPoster: -The Q doesn’t seem to do very well for D. And the nmubers didn’t have much of a pattern either. Be extra careful with D from the Q.

    interesting as it seems there are a few D that look decent from the Q that could be available when the oilers are picking.

  116. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1),

    I watched the games, to my eye they were both amongst the best players on the ice.

    I think Davidson is better than Ference, Nikitin, and Schultz today. His updside isn’t spectacular but he’s steady, physical, and calm. He’s like Mark Fayne.

    Nurse looked like a physical freak in the OHL with his skating and raw athleticism. I was surprised how much that continued to carry over even when playing against grown men. Decision making has progressed a lot since last year. He’s still a kid, he still makes mistakes, but they aren’t as common and his speed and physicality allows him to get back in a hurry. I’m looking forward to watching him play for the next decade.

    I think the team is clearly better with both of them on the roster next year. There is a good argument to be made that Nurse could play at least half a year in the AHL, but to me Davidson is ready to go.

  117. wheatnoil says:

    SwedishPoster,

    Thanks for all this effort and great post! I’d love to be able to reference this later, so very selfishly I’d love for you to store this info on someone’s blog.

    It does confirm what we suspect… damn those goalies. Damn them.

  118. Rondo says:

    frjohnk,

    Might be interesting to see how the QMJHL teams do in the Memorial Cup.

  119. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: I think Davidson is better than Ference, Nikitin, and Schultz today. His updside isn’t spectacular but he’s steady, physical, and calm. He’s like Mark Fayne.

    Thanks for the input! Watching Nurse in the WJCs, and a couple of OHL playoff games, I’m getting a little giddy about what he will bring to the NHL.

    What about Davidson’s puck moving? Above average for the AHL?

  120. wheatnoil says:

    SwedishPoster:
    I also looked at the goalies…

    …Most guys had at least one season where they put up good numbers in some league of some quality.

    Hah! This is the greatest line describing just how voodoo goalies are! ‘Most goalies were good somewhere for at least one season.’ Does this mean that some goalies didn’t even hit that bar? Hilarious!

    Goalies! I feel like I should say that the way Seinfeld says “Newman!”

  121. spoiler says:

    stush18: Have you considered that the original poster made a simple typo and i was making a small attempt at humour?

    Apologies to the original poster, if i offended you in any way by making jokes about the one mistake in your otherwise well written post.

    I guess the mcdavid cheer is wearing off.

    Don’t be defensive, just try to be mindful. And you might want to read the original post in its entirety again.

  122. v4ance says:

    Thinking about Babcock in TO… I look at his signing in two viewpoints:

    1) Babcock knows the shelf life of coaches is 3-5 years before the players tune them out but still asked for and signed for 8 years. It is an rare rare exception to see a coaching tenure of 10 years that Babcock had in Detroit. He signed in Toronto for the rate and that term knowing that he might be fired before the end of his contract. So he’ll at least get paid when he gets run out of town OR he’ll be there when the Leafs get turned around into a contender.

    His reputation is pretty much invincible no matter what happens. If he does turn it around in TO, he’ll get most of the credit. If he fails, people will blame the rookie POHO in Shanahan for not giving Babs the tools to succeed, because of Babcock’s previous accomplishments and achievements elsewhere.

    2) Toronto is the only NHL market where “money is no object” applies to any managerial hires. Pretty much every other market would feel compelled to keep Babcock on as coach no matter how bad it got, if they had signed him to a similar 8 year $50 million contract. In a sense, Buffalo dodged a TO bullet, like EDM dodged the David Clarkson bullet. If Babcock doesn’t work out, the Leafs can throw money at the next savior, just like they did for the previous savior, Brian Burke.

  123. Магия 10 says:

    Everything else to the side as an Oil fan I have tons of empathy for Buffalo if Backcock really did tell Murray (per Doug Maclean) they had a deal subject to his family buying in. The draft is the only leveller. Without McDavid we’re just another place that sends talent to the bright lights and warm beaches.

  124. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Магия 10,

    I buy/sell lots of stuff on kijiji. If a guy tells me that he is going to buy a guitar, but that he has to check with his wife first, I don’t write out the bill of sale until I hear back.

  125. blainer says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1),

    I watched the games, to my eye they were both amongst the best players on the ice.

    I think Davidson is better than Ference, Nikitin, and Schultz today.His updside isn’t spectacular but he’s steady, physical, and calm.He’s like Mark Fayne.

    Nurse looked like a physical freak in the OHL with his skating and raw athleticism.I was surprised how much that continued to carry over even when playing against grown men.Decision making has progressed a lot since last year.He’s still a kid, he still makes mistakes, but they aren’t as common and his speed and physicality allows him to get back in a hurry.I’m looking forward to watching him play for the next decade.

    I think the team is clearly better with both of them on the roster next year.There is a good argument to be made that Nurse could play at least half a year in the AHL, but to me Davidson is ready to go.

    I also saw the same things.. Really liked Davidsons physicality and Nurse was much better than last year at this time. I expect both to give TMc a hard decision at camp.. Really depends on what management does in the off season. If nothing were to change I play Davidson and Nurse over FSN..JMO..

  126. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1):

    What about Davidson’s puck moving? Above average for the AHL?

    I suppose. I mean it doesn’t stand out as awesome, and certainly my viewings are a small sample size, but it certainly wasn’t bad.

    He reminds me of Anton Lander.

    How’s his skating? Pretty good
    How about his shot? Good I guess
    Is he big? I don’t know, kinda big, not small.
    But he’s really physical? Kinda physical…
    So what’s he good at? I don’t know… not making errors?

    That’s why I say he’s better than Ference or Nikitin or Schultz today. Admittedly Schultz has more upside, clearly, but he needs to hit that upside. Davidson probably won’t ever be a star player, but I could see him playing a lot of games on the basis of being a relatively low cost, reliable, depth guy. You know, the guy you can happily pay less than $2 million per year to play 15 minutes a night and not worry about him costing you the game. We currently pay these same guys $3 million at a minimum and constantly worry they will cost us the game, so Davidson is a big improvement in my mind.

  127. Магия 10 says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1):
    Магия 10,

    I buy/sell lots of stuff on kijiji. If a guy tells me that he is going to buy a guitar, but that he has to check with his wife first, I don’t write out the bill of sale until I hear back.

    Nor did Murray. He’s shot down the done deal rumors. It was not about the money. It was about the same old thing where we produce the talent and get to watch it under brighter lights. Thank Gord for the draft. And yeah fans can choose not to root for a guy who embraces their club as bidders without actually qualifying them. Thanks goodness Katz learned that lesson before this.

  128. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: So what’s he good at? I don’t know… not making errors?

    Well, that would certainly be an upgrade. That said, an upgrade might not be good enough because of the context here, but it’s certainly encouraging to hear this.

    Next step, after Chelli works the phones this summer and hopefully lands some bigger fish, is a little thing called earning your spot out of training camp.

  129. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Магия 10: Everything else to the side as an Oil fan I have tons of empathy for Buffalo if Backcock really did tell Murray (per Doug Maclean) they had a deal subject to his family buying in.

    I’m confused. Deal subject to family input is not a deal, as such.

    Are you saying that this statement has been subsequently corrected by Murray?

  130. Магия 10 says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1): I’m confused. Deal subject to family input is not a deal, as such.

    Are you saying that this statement has been subsequently corrected by Murray?

    YES. The reporting or whatever he actually said has been corrected by him. He explicitly says it was subject to family and also concludes that it was therefore not a deal.

  131. BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1) says:

    Магия 10: He explicitly says it was subject to family and also that does not make it a deal.

    I should send him my Lauren Pronger voodoo doll then. I don’t use it that much any more.

    Also, new post up!

  132. Магия 10 says:

    BOLD OVER (5-14-6-1): I should send him my Lauren Pronger voodoo doll then. I don’t use it that much any more.

    Also, new post up!

    He also stated that the process was fair and they need to learn from it. Good on Katz and PC.

  133. Evilas says:

    SwedishPoster,

    LT,

    This is great work by Swedish Poster, I suggest he be given a guest post on this blog or maybe GMoney or WoodGuy might want to post his work. It deserves it’s own place and not be lost in the comments section.

    Awesome stuff sir!!!!!!!!

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