OILERS AT 209: ZIYAT PAYGIN

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  1. spoiler says:

    Another note on Reinhart:
    (Source: http://blog.ctnews.com/fornabaio/)

    This whole “Has Griffin Reinhart played the right side” thing (A: Yes) seems to keep popping up on Twitter and perhaps elsewhere, so I sorted through starting pairs. By game-opening partner in Bridgeport this season: Reinhart started games on the left with Scott Mayfield more than anybody, 17 games, but for the last time on the day Ryan Pulock was hurt in Providence, Jan. 2. Reinhart also played the left with Jesse Graham 10 times and, at the end, 12 times with Matt Carkner. That’s 39 games in all. On the right: He played nine times with Aaron Ness while Pulock was out, five times apiece with Kevin Czuczman and Adam Pelech, and once early on with Andrey Pedan. That’s 20 on the right. However, after Pulock was hurt, the split was just about even: 20 left (12 Carkner, eight Graham), 19 right (nine Ness, five each Pelech/Czuczman). He also was often on the right on the penalty kill if he was playing with another lefty, and at times when they played with five defensemen.

    So that’s Nurse, Dreamboat and Gryffindor all with experience playing the off-point.

    Klefbom Schulrz
    Nikitin Fayne
    Nurse Gryba
    Ference
    Reinhart
    Davidson

    I am having trouble believing Chia will add a UFA defenseman from the slim pickings available, unless Ference or Nikitin are Evanesco-ed away. Too many bodies.

  2. Wolfie says:

    For all the bitching and moaning about what’s happened in the last two days, I think some people have forgotten just how bad the Oilers were at defending last year.

    When was the last time you remember any team hesitate in going to the prime scoring areas against the Oilers? They give up the slot easier than a hooker jonesing for a fix. Nobody paid the price in front of the net.

    What Chiarelli did might not look sexy but he just made the Oilers a little nastier on the back end. Don’t forget that you need the puck to breakout. The Oilers couldn’t break opponents possession worth a damn in the defensive zone last year.

    Now we didn’t get Hamilton. But they did get 1 actual NHL player in Gryba. They got their goalie in Talbot and a promising physically punishing player like Reinhart. This team desperately needs to turn North. They need to compete before Hall, Nuge and Eberle decide they no longer want to put up with this mess.

    The more I contemplate these moves the more I like what Chiarelli did this weekend. Add in one more D-man and this roster is on the verge of making hay.

  3. Alsker says:

    So I assume Chia’ decision on Jultz sets the tone for the balance of the this off-season and what we can expect for the upcoming season. That’s a lot of capspace devoted to bottom 3 defenders.

  4. Adam Wu says:

    For perspective:

    Worse case scenario: Reinhart busts, and Talbot pulls a Scrivens. The Oilers on-ice D and G will essentially be the same quality as this last year. (Whatever happens to Gryba relative to Marincin in performance won’t affect this since they didn’t employ Marincin much or properly last year anyways). But we’ll still have added McDavid and TMac as coach.

    In other words, the team will be improved. Almost guaranteed. Certainly won’t be sniffing any playoffs here, but it will be positive movement.

    And the next offseason the Ference and Nikitin problems solve themselves.

    Best case scenario: Reinhart meets his draft projections, which means he’s basically Nurse-lite one year ahead in development with a somewhat lower ceiling, and Talbot is the real deal and resigns. Gryba, already by all reports a solid 5-6 option (superior therefore to both Ference and Nikitin and effectively replacing them on the roster) continues to improve and settles into a solid 4-5 option. This means, on D, we’ll have Nurse, Klefbom and Reinhart all hitting the beginning of their peak years as 2-4 Ds (with a non-zero chance that one of them will exceed expectation and become a legit 1D) at the same time, coinciding with the 3rd year of McDavid’s ECL. Reinhart’s defensive focus would also nicely complement Klefbom’s more offensive orientation from a team balance perspective.

    The truth will likely end up somewhere in between, but it would behoove us all to keep in mind that even in the worst case scenario the team is highly likely to noticeably improve next year, and continue to improve over the next several.

  5. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    He got promoted at the end of the season. Thats positive. Other than that we have little info.

    GR’s 8 NHL games:

    3 in October
    5 in December

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8476852&season=20142015&view=log

  6. godot10 says:

    Bling:
    Interesting to compare Ryan Pulock and Griffin Reinhart on the Sound Tigers last year.

    Here’s Pulock’s stat line:

    GP 54 G 17 A 12 P 29

    Here’s Reinhart’s:

    GP 59 G 7 A 15 P 22

    They don’t track power play points — as far as I can tell — on the AHL website, but they do track power play goals.

    Pulock had a whopping 12 power play goals last season, so he was probably their #1 D option on the PP.

    Reinhart had 2 power play goals and was, from what I’ve read, playing the tougher minutes and not receiving prime PP time.

    It’s interesting — Pulock was considered to have passed Reinhart on the Isles’ depth chart, but my feeling is that a large part of that difference may have been due to utilization.

    This is why Justin Schultz and Brad Hunt have passed Oscar Klefbom on the Oilers depth chart! AHL power play points and not tough minutes utilization is how defensemen should be judged.

  7. Adam Wu says:

    Oil2Oilers (formerly VanOil): Cam Barker still has me trying to bite my elbows

    Really bad for the neck, in the long run. Would not recommend it….

  8. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    LT and co. Question for you guys. So the Oilers gave the Sharks the 3rd rounder this year? I’m just checking in from a workshop so haven’t been able to follow.

    Logic would say you’d want to delay the compensation, especially considering it’s a deeper draft year this year than next.

    So, my own personal conclusion is that the Oilers are going to extend an offer sheet to Dougie Hamilton before he can be re-signed by the Flames. Now, the Flames have the cap room so they may match, but at least they want to try and that may mean a decision between Giordano and Hamilton.

    At least, that’s their mindset.

    Am I out to lunch?

  9. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    He got promoted at the end of the season. Thats positive. Other than that we have little info.

    GR’s 8 NHL games:

    3 in October
    5 in December

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8476852&season=20142015&view=log

    I read that he made the team out of camp and stayed for 3 games, but I never dug into it to see who he beat out, etc.

  10. hunter1909 says:

    Adam Wu: Worse case scenario: Reinhart busts, and Talbot pulls a Scrivens. The Oilers on-ice D and G will essentially be the same quality as this last year. (Whatever happens to Gryba relative to Marincin in performance won’t affect this since they didn’t employ Marincin much or properly last year anyways).

    I think I’m going to puke.

  11. theres oil in virginia says:

    NYCOIL "Taking Photos":
    LT and co. Question for you guys. So the Oilers gave the Sharks the 3rd rounder this year? I’m just checking in from a workshop so haven’t been able to follow.

    Logic would say you’d want to delay the compensation, especially considering it’s a deeper draft year this year than next.

    So, my own personal conclusion is that the Oilers are going to extend an offer sheet to Dougie Hamilton before he can be re-signed by the Flames. Now, the Flames have the cap room so they may match, but at least they want to try and that may mean a decision between Giordano and Hamilton.

    At least, that’s their mindset.

    Am I out to lunch?

    I hope that you’re not (out to lunch). I think there may be an advantage even if the Flames match. It sort felt like Calgary was trolling Edmonton the last couple days, and it would be nice to return the favor. I have no idea though if Hamilton intends to sign with Flames under $7M or not. Might be a good starting point for an offer.

  12. Магия 10 says:

    33 (my precious) + MPS/Perron –> Reinhart + Klinkhammer. Oh the humanity!
    And this from some folks panicked that Chia would not offer the 33rd and another 2nd for Talbot yesterday.

    So quick to detect the earth shattering differences between a 16+33 and a 16+57 lodged under your mattresses while you try to dream of a visit from the Shattenkirk fairy.

    I jest. I think. Following the draft is a fun hobby, right?

  13. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    He got promoted at the end of the season. Thats positive. Other than that we have little info.

    GR’s 8 NHL games:

    3 in October
    5 in December

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8476852&season=20142015&view=log

    Even a fool should know that 8 games is nothing. 20 games is the minimum any rookie should be allowed to play.

    Dude’s a Memorial Cup winner, a number 4 pick. Highly intelligent above everything else. Please, someone tell me he doesn’t deserve any more chances.

    Now that I think about it, the Islanders might have made a huge blunder.

  14. Магия 10 says:

    godot10: This is why Justin Schultz and Brad Hunt have passed Oscar Klefbom on the Oilers depth chart! AHL power play points and not tough minutes utilization is how defensemen should be judged.

    On Fire. In a Good Way.

  15. Магия 10 says:

    Still just opinon but here’s a serious recent effort to place GR’s value in context with others in different places on the different positional development curves.

    Postseason Prospect Rankings 2014-15

    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect-rankings/postseason-prospect-rankings-2014-15/page/2

    11. William Nylander
    12. Kevin Fiala
    13. Max Domi

    14. Griffin Reinhart

    Still just 21 years old, Griffin Reinhart might have graduated but for the New York Islanders’ newfound patience with regard to developing their prospects. The fourth overall pick of the 2012 NHL Draft, Reinhart spent most of this season with the Bridgeport Sound Tigers of the AHL. Though his scoring totals might underwhelm, Reinhart was mostly tasked with playing hard-nosed defense against the top lines of the opposition. Reinhart remains an intriguing prospect even though the depth chart above him looks crowded. He has a lot of skill for a player his size and getting top-pairing minutes in the AHL is much more likely to help his development at this stage than would press box time in the NHL.

    15. Andre Burakovsky
    16. Michael Dal Colle
    17. Shea Theodore
    18. Anthony Mantha
    19. Nick Ritchie

    All @ 8.0 C

  16. spoiler says:

    NYCOIL "Taking Photos":
    LT and co. Question for you guys. So the Oilers gave the Sharks the 3rd rounder this year? I’m just checking in from a workshop so haven’t been able to follow.

    Logic would say you’d want to delay the compensation, especially considering it’s a deeper draft year this year than next.

    So, my own personal conclusion is that the Oilers are going to extend an offer sheet to Dougie Hamilton before he can be re-signed by the Flames. Now, the Flames have the cap room so they may match, but at least they want to try and that may mean a decision between Giordano and Hamilton.

    At least, that’s their mindset.

    Am I out to lunch?

    Possibly. I definitely think they’re keeping their options open that way, but whether or not they actually execute is another thing.

    I think the other factor to the compensatory picks was to not force yourself into a situation where you have to give both up in the same year, so give up the lower one in the deeper year.

  17. Rondo says:

    NYCOIL "Taking Photos":
    LT and co. Question for you guys. So the Oilers gave the Sharks the 3rd rounder this year? I’m just checking in from a workshop so haven’t been able to follow.

    Logic would say you’d want to delay the compensation, especially considering it’s a deeper draft year this year than next.

    So, my own personal conclusion is that the Oilers are going to extend an offer sheet to Dougie Hamilton before he can be re-signed by the Flames. Now, the Flames have the cap room so they may match, but at least they want to try and that may mean a decision between Giordano and Hamilton.

    At least, that’s their mindset.

    Am I out to lunch?

    Yes, but for other reasons

  18. spoiler says:

    hunter1909: I think I’m going to puke.

    PUT DOWN THE TEQUILA!

    Nothing good can come of that.

    😉

  19. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Rondo: Yes, but for other reasons

    OK, care to enlighten me?

  20. AsiaOil says:

    The level of pissing and moaning makes you wonder if a lot of Oiler fans deserved the last 9 years – it’s really boring listening to guys get bent out of shape out about picks which are 50% shots at being ordinary. There were no high potential low risk dmen left on the board and you just drafted CMD – stop acting like losers.

    EDM had no chance at Hamilton without a massive overpay – bad blood between EDM and BOS mgmt – so why bother talking about it. Plus a better way to evaluate the deal is:

    Rienhart for #13 & 33 plus $6 million more can be used for UFA signings
    Hamilton for #15, 45 & 52

    So the deal is not comparable until the Oilers spend the $6 million in cap space.

    As for Marinicn – like the guy but something is wrong and no one wanted to pay anything for him. I don’t know what and I won’t specualte but the market has spoken.

  21. Pajamah says:

    Sure it’s been said, but since yesterday, the a Oilers added 4 NHL players.

    Gave up 1 prospect (Marincin, though he in my mind is an NHL player, mileage may vary)

    The draft looked very deep, but I’m not 100% certain the Oilers could have drafted and developed 3 more NHL players from the picks available (16 good chance, 33 reasonable chance, 57+ are long shots)

    Calgary really did steal some of our thunder, but I am ok today.

    Lots to look forward to in October.

  22. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Rondo:
    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”,

    It was a joke

    Ha. Well, I would tend to agree and many others would as well, so I had to ask!

  23. spoiler says:

    One NHL narrative that I found funny today…

    LA goes and gets Lucic because Sutter and Lombardi think they need to get bigger to beat Anaheim.

    Anaheim goes and gets Hagelin because they felt they got beat by Chicago’s speed.

  24. Alpine says:

    Reinhart’s 22 in 59 in the A is actually not bad for an AHL rookie presumably getting difficult assignments. His draft -1 and draft year numbers are also decent (>0.50 PPG both years), with a draft year similar to our man Darnell.

    Where it gets fuzzy is his Draft +1/2 years, where his scoring dropped to below 0.5 PPG both years. I would think he was the OK’s number 1 shutdown guy in both those but he was also a PP mainstay. Looking through some Youtube footage (ITMvideos has a good portfolio of reinhart highlights), it seems the a lot of his points came on the PP. So if he was playing there, it’s good that he made use of the time. A lack of ES production is concerning, but even in junior, tough assignments can affect the numbers.

    Going through some of this footage, it seemed he definitely wasn’t afraid to jump into the rush and carry the puck through the NZ and into the OZ. He also showed some good vision on his breakout passes and avoiding checkers when rushing the puck. These are small snippets from a long season of play, but he definitely was an important piece on a CHL powerhouse. From limited viewings of the OKs live and on the tube, these good facets of Reinhart’s game definitely weren’t isolated incidents. He was and remains a pretty good prospect.

    I don’t really like the value we gave up for him, or the smartest man in the room approach, or passing on Barzal who could be a very valuable ELC contributor or trade piece down the road. But I do think there’s a lot of good with Reinhart. Not quite home run potential but a nice double or triple that can bring in a run or two. He’s considered to be a smart defensemen, and those guys generally find their way.

  25. Woodguy says:

    Bling:
    Interesting to compare Ryan Pulock and Griffin Reinhart on the Sound Tigers last year.

    Here’s Pulock’s stat line:

    GP 54 G 17 A 12 P 29

    Here’s Reinhart’s:

    GP 59 G 7 A 15 P 22

    They don’t track power play points — as far as I can tell — on the AHL website, but they do track power play goals.

    Pulock had a whopping 12 power play goals last season, so he was probably their #1 D option on the PP.

    Reinhart had 2 power play goals and was, from what I’ve read, playing the tougher minutes and not receiving prime PP time.

    It’s interesting — Pulock was considered to have passed Reinhart on the Isles’ depth chart, but my feeling is that a large part of that difference may have been due to utilization.

    I talked to a few Islanders bloggers about this.

    The consensus seems to be that Pulock passed Renihart due to being RH

    GR was behind Leddy, Hickey and De Haan in terms of LHD and NYI likes the D to be handed (play their handed side)

    Pulock actually didn’t play an NHL games this year.

    It was LH Matt Donovan who was called up for 3 games in March ahead of Reinhart : http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8474659&season=20142015&view=log

    There are concerns about RG’s foot speed and ability to keep up.

    I hope he works his ass off on his fitness and skating this summer.

  26. stephen sheps says:

    Woodguy,

    to be fair, Donovan didn’t play any AHL games this year either and played in 52 NHL games in 13-14. I don’t think this was a player called up ahead of anyone including GR but rather the Isles pre-existing 7D

  27. Rondo says:

    Woodguy,

    Love is bias, not blind

  28. Магия 10 says:

    Woodguy: I hope he works his ass off on his fitness and skating this summer.

    Pediigree is a bitch, but his Memorial MVP and his brothers suggest that work will not be the issue,

  29. Oil2Oilers (formerly VanOil) says:

    I hope the new regime has retained Pelletier he is vital

  30. square_wheels says:

    Can someone explain what the hell Dallas is up to acquiring Niemi’s rights ? I still think there is UFA players that can help us, and RFA trades to be had.

    If there are teams, and there are many, who haven’t improved in the areas they desired this weekend, the follow up discussions will be plenty. This week is going to be fun.

  31. Магия 10 says:

    Part of being honest is being willing to admit to evidence that weakens one’s argument. To wit I’ll admit Spector is a GR fan:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-draft-night-moves-prove-future-is-now/

  32. godot10 says:

    I think Marincin probably requested a trade. He was treated as abominably as Petry. And as he demonstrated with the retribution on Zucker for his Slovakian teammate, Marincin is a man of his convictions.

    He is a player MacT and Eakins lost through their incompetence and favouritism.

    There is certainly an NHL defensemen there, albeit still with flaws. Babcock will coach the flaws out.

    Too bad McLellan and crew didn’t get a chance. The relationship with the organization was ruptured before Chiarelli arrived.

  33. Gret99zky says:

    So no fucking Hallelujah then?

    *spits*

  34. Connorrhea says:

    square_wheels: Can someone explain what the hell Dallas is up to acquiring Niemi’s rights ?

    Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 7h7 hours ago
    Nill says Lehtonen and Niemi will share the crease, wants them to push each other, wants a solid, veteran 1-2 punch in goal

  35. hunter1909 says:

    godot10:
    I think Marincin probably requested a trade.He was treated as abominably as Petry.And as he demonstrated with the retribution on Zucker for his Slovakian teammate, Marincin is a man of his convictions.

    He is a player MacT and Eakins lost through their incompetence and favouritism.

    There is certainly an NHL defensemen there, albeit still with flaws.Babcock will coach the flaws out.

    Too bad McLellan and crew didn’t get a chance.The relationship with the organization was ruptured before Chiarelli arrived.

    Yes well…

    I’m going to drink scotch(not tequila that shit kills) and wonder how the NHL’s planning to shut down Mcdavid.

    McDavid to Yakupov, to Hall, to Eberle…

    Marincin I liked a lot. I hope he has a great career in Hogtown.

  36. square_wheels says:

    Connorrhea,

    Well he’s huffing gas then, what a Cap consuming monster that will be. Good news is their D could be worse than ours.

  37. hunter1909 says:

    I’m trying to think of a comparable NHL player, recent or in the past with the “pissed off at anyone who dares enter my zone mentality” that Darnell Nurse shows. Because he’s going to be a killer folks.

  38. Bling says:

    Woodguy,

    Interesting stuff, RE: timing of when Reinhart was called up last year.

    Seems as though a lot of the negative verbal around Reinhart was based on his showing in the NHL early in the season, while the positive reviews emphasized the strides he made later in the season, including improvements in gap control.

  39. square_wheels says:

    Willis thinks we should sign Cody Franson. Ugh, we probably will.

  40. Connorrhea says:

    square_wheels: Well he’s huffing gas then, what a Cap consuming monster that will be.

    Could be alright – very curious to see what Niemi will sign for in Dallas.

    I’ve given up trying to figure out which team will do what next season, but the Stars gave up a shitload of goals last year.

    They also scored a tonne last season, so maybe they don’t have to fix their defense as much because of that?

    But the PDO Gords are a fickle lot.

  41. square_wheels says:

    hunter1909,

    Bennet and Gaudreau are going to get punished, and all the whining in the world will be music for Regher’s abuse of Hemmer.

    The crowning moment will be when Nurse KO’s Kessler….with a clean hit of course.

  42. Bling says:

    Another reason to not judge Reinhart too harshly based on stats:

    Years ago, the Oilers traded away Janne Niinimaa to the Isles for Isbister/Torres and a second round draft pick, which turned out to be Brad Winchester IIRC.

    Anyways, Torres was considered the centrepiece, and nobody could fathom why the guy would be any good — he simply didn’t score all that well in the AHL.

    I remember Vic Ferrari went and saw him play in the minors, and insisted that he was head and shoulders the best player on the ice.

    Torres went on to play over 600 games. He was never really a big-time scorer, but he was an important piece on a few good teams.

    If Reinhart can fulfill a similar role on the Oilers as a D — 2nd pairing, physical, good EV scoring — the trade is a win IMO. I think he’s a good bet to do so.

  43. godot10 says:

    square_wheels:
    Willis thinks we should sign Cody Franson. Ugh, we probably will.

    Cody Franson has never been a tough minutes D, and never will be. He is an older more expensive Justin Schultz. Schultz comes with a one year risk. Franson will come with a six-year risk.

    Franson will be the UFA D signing that will be most regretted by the GM who falls for PP boxcars.

    The Oilers can play five forwards on the power play if need be. Pay for D who can play D, skate, and move the puck.

  44. square_wheels says:

    godot10,

    Agreed, just don’t know why anyone would think he’s anything more than that.

    If we strike out in UFA…..man, Chia better pull something out of his as cuz this D is still horrific. How bad does Talbot want to resign playing behind this D ?

  45. spoiler says:

    LT,

    I just wanted to say… Congrats!

    Over 2100 comments yesterday (stretching into the early hours).

    That’s pretty incredible. It has got to be some kind of record for any hockey blog anywhere.

  46. Big Dan says:

    Thanks to Boston’s refusal to deal fairly with Chiarelli, Chia went to plan b with Reinhart.

    This deal reminds me of mine in my fantasy pool with a bunch of CFO’s and executives in March. I figured with Brandon Gormley’s stumblings lately, I may able to seize the opportunity to pick him up. Young D are very hard to acquire in our league because of the heavy weighting on +/-. If Gormley had been lighting it up, there’d be little opportunity for me to get a young D. I’m up against the salary cap so I couldn’t afford an expensive D.

    It wasn’t easy; the owner of that squad is no fool! Our league has a tight salary cap and 25-man roster limit. I tried offering roster players but he wanted Ivan Barbashev + a 2nd rounder. Barbashev has not played 25 NHL games so he’s on the 7-limit junior squad. That seemed a bit much considering the season he had but everybody overrates their own prospects.

    I swallowed hard and made the deal because I knew I needed defense BADLY, and I think Gormley has great upside (especially with the opening made by the Yandle deal).

    Because of that deal, I was over the 25-player limit so I had to grudgingly drop Grigorenko as well. I had a surplus of forwards. That looks really painful now that he’s been traded to Colorado.

    If, in a couple of years, I compare this deal to the players I lost, I might be kicking myself hard. Looks like an overpayment. On the flip side, I already have a lot of junior prospects & good forwards so I addressed the one facet that was sinking my fantasy squad- defense.

    If Gormley turns out, then I need to look at it this way – I achieved the goal I had in mind.

  47. Connorrhea says:

    spoiler: Over 2100 comments

    Pro-rated to 1300, because most were just, ‘WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!’

  48. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler:
    LT,

    I just wanted to say… Congrats!

    Over 2100 comments yesterday (stretching into the early hours).

    That’s pretty incredible.It has got to be some kind of record for any hockey blog anywhere.

    Do all of those count as comments? I mean, don’t they need to be somewhat different to each count as a comment? Some of that shite was just stupidity by repetition.

  49. Lowetide says:

    Thanks, guys. I am writing a “Harvest Moon” but fear it won’t be up until 9-ish. I have to BBQ, write a Bleacher Report and drink!

  50. spoiler says:

    theres oil in virginia: Do all of those count as comments?I mean, don’t they need to be somewhat different to each count as a comment?Some of that shite was just stupidity by repetition.

    Well, they don’t ask how you scored…

  51. hoser313 says:

    hunter1909:
    I’m trying to think of a comparable NHL player, recent or in the past with the “pissed off at anyone who dares enter my zone mentality” that Darnell Nurse shows. Because he’s going to be a killer folks.

    Dave Manson.

  52. Oil2Oilers (formerly VanOil) says:

    Lowetide:
    Thanks, guys. I am writing a “Harvest Moon” but fear it won’t be up until 9-ish. I have to BBQ, write a Bleacher Report and drink!

    Unacceptable I expected 97 posts by 6pm this weekend!

    When eating BBQ I recommend the wet hand ~ wetter hand method. One for saucy food the other for getting sauced.

    Enjoy, you earned it

  53. OilSafety says:

    Woodguy: I talked to a few Islanders bloggers about this.

    The consensus seems to be that Pulock passed Renihart due to being RH

    GR was behind Leddy, Hickey and De Haan in terms of LHD and NYI likes the D to be handed (play their handed side)

    Pulock actually didn’t play an NHL games this year.

    It was LH Matt Donovan who was called up for 3 games in March ahead of Reinhart: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8474659&season=20142015&view=log

    There are concerns about RG’s foot speed and ability to keep up.

    I hope he works his ass off on his fitness and skating this summer.

    His interview said he started power skating. Here’s hoping it helps

  54. Connorrhea says:

    Follow

    Gene PrincipeVerified account
    ‏@GenePrincipe
    Just ran into Glen Sather. Asked him about dealing Cam Talbot to @EdmontonOilers and he said “I wanted to help out my old team.”#nicetohear

  55. hoser313 says:

    Happy with the weekend haul.

    Give Chia major props for winning the Talbot sweepstakes.

    Reinhart trade looks like a win. If one of those other picks becomes a WHL play-off MVP, then the debate starts.

    Gryba (finally) replaces Andy Sutton.

    Not thrilled with them giving up on Marincin, but you can’t have it all in life.

  56. spoiler says:

    hoser313: Gryba (finally) replaces Andy Sutton.

    Was just writing a post that said something very similar

    “…truculence (Sutton tree)…”

  57. Alpine says:

    If Reinhart improves his skating, he can rehabilitate himself to a B+ prospect, a guy that could be a good 3D. He has the rest of the tools, his footspeed is main flaw imo.

  58. Connorrhea says:

    Alpine: If Reinhart improves his skating,

    Strudwick said that working briefly with Pelletier improved his skating. If a retired player can improve, anyone can.

  59. spoiler says:

    Just trying to summarize the draft in my head. The Oil came out with

    McDavid
    Reinhart
    Talbot
    Gryba
    Jones Jr.
    Paygin
    Marino
    and Ricki’s cousin
    and half the compensation dealt with.

    They drafted well where they had picks. They picked up an older, more sure bet than the 16 and 33 picks and attended to organizational need there at D, and in net. Talbot was the most coveted goalie available and they got him for less than advertised. They switched a leftie for a rightie, giving up some youth and upside for experience and truculence (Sutton tree). Nothing from the BCJHL…

    I think this was a strong weekend’s work for Chia.

    Just due to the number of defence on the backend, I’m wondering if we’re more likely to see a trade rather than a UFA signing at this point. Or buyout + signing.

  60. Nostradumbass says:

    Магия 10:
    Still just opinon but here’s a serious recent effort to place GR’s value in context with others in different places on the different positional development curves.

    Postseason Prospect Rankings 2014-15

    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect-rankings/postseason-prospect-rankings-2014-15/page/2

    11. William Nylander
    12. Kevin Fiala
    13. Max Domi

    14. Griffin Reinhart

    Still just 21 years old, Griffin Reinhart might have graduated but for the New York Islanders’ newfound patience with regard to developing their prospects. The fourth overall pick of the 2012 NHL Draft, Reinhart spent most of this season with the Bridgeport Sound Tigers of the AHL. Though his scoring totals might underwhelm, Reinhart was mostly tasked with playing hard-nosed defense against the top lines of the opposition. Reinhart remains an intriguing prospect even though the depth chart above him looks crowded. He has a lot of skill for a player his size and getting top-pairing minutes in the AHL is much more likely to help his development at this stage than would press box time in the NHL.

    15. Andre Burakovsky
    16. Michael Dal Colle
    17. Shea Theodore
    18. Anthony Mantha
    19. Nick Ritchie

    All @ 8.0 C

    I’m not sure you could get Shea Theodore straight across for Reinhart

  61. AsiaOil says:

    I’d still like to acquire a vet to go with Talbot – would feel much more comfortable with that setup than Talbot/Scrivens which is asking for trouble IMHO. But after today I see few options really aside from taking on a big contract like Lehtonen should Niemi sign in Dallas – and that’s not very appealing. So here’s hoping Talbot is the real goods and can handle 55 starts – we are screwed if he isnt and can’t. But better to find out now I guess instead of signing him longterm based on limited starts.

    Just like the trade for GR sealed Marincin’s fate – who ever we sign as a UFA seals another guys fate. An offensive guy like Franson means Shultz gets dealt or dumped – a more defensive or 2 way guy means Ference or Nikitn goes. But at least one of the three players does not last the week. Frankly I’d go scorched earth and bury Nikitin in the minors and buyout Ference.

    xxx Fayne
    Klef Shultz
    Reinhart Gryba

    Given what BOS did yesterday – trading Marincin makes a lot of sense now – but will they deal with EDM? That xxx on the first pair via trade or UFA is key – lots and lots of work left to do on defense but this mess cannot be fixed in one summer – plus goal is still unstable.

  62. marty62 says:

    AsiaOil:
    I’d still like to acquire a vet to go with Talbot – would feel much more comfortable with that setup than Talbot/Scrivens which is asking for trouble IMHO. But after today I see few options really aside from taking on a big contract like Lehtonen should Niemi sign in Dallas – and that’s not very appealing. So here’s hoping Talbot is the real goods and can handle 55 starts – we are screwed if he isnt and can’t. But better to find out now I guess instead of signing him longterm based on limited starts.

    Just like the trade for GR sealed Marincin’s fate – who ever we sign as a UFA seals another guys fate. An offensive guy like Franson means Shultz gets dealt or dumped – a more defensive or 2 way guy means Ference or Nikitn goes. But at least one of the three players does not last the week. Frankly I’d go scorched earth and bury Nikitin in the minors and buyout Ference.

    xxx Fayne
    Klef xxx
    Reinhart Shultz
    Gryba

    Given what BOS did yesterday – trading Marincin makes a lot of sense now – but will they deal with EDM? That xxx on the first pair needs is key via trade or UFA – lots and lots of work left to do on defense but this mess cannot be fixed in one summer – plus goal is still unstable.

    With that lineup on d I dont see how you keep nurse in the AHL. He is better than Nikitin or Ference and I’m tempted to say Shultz as well. Chiarelli will have to add 2 real live breathing top 4 d men to keep Nurse in the AHL.

  63. Alpine says:

    Connorrhea,

    I’m really taking a glass half-full approach to Reinhart, but I do recall Jordan Eberle going from an okay skater in juniors to a very good one in the NHL. That was with Serdachny, but power skating lessons aren’t exactly a lost art.

  64. Gret99zky says:

    I hope Hamilton’s agent is demanding north of $7M per year. If not, a team needs to offer sheet him to ensure he doesn’t sign for a nice cap friendly $5.5M.

    Offer him $7.2 X 2?

    This will also F up their qualifying offer for next contract, no?

  65. square_wheels says:

    AsiaOil,

    Even adding Pronger in his prime to that group, ugly, ugly, ugly.

  66. oilswell says:

    spoiler:
    Just trying to summarize the draft in my head.The Oil came out with

    McDavid
    Reinhart
    Talbot
    Gryba
    Jones Jr.
    Paygin
    Marino
    and Ricki’s cousin
    and half the compensation dealt with.

    They drafted well where they had picks.They picked up an older, more sure bet than the 16 and 33 picks and attended to organizational need there at D, and in net. Talbot was the most coveted goalie available and they got him for less than advertised. They switched a leftie for a rightie, giving up some youth and upside for experience and truculence (Sutton tree).Nothing from the BCJHL…

    I think this was a strong weekend’s work for Chia.

    Just due to the number of defence on the backend, I’m wondering if we’re more likely to see a trade rather than a UFA signing at this point.Or buyout + signing.

    Pretty fair summary I’d say.

    Trying to turn north was going to be painful, particularly for a community that loves their young players. We should expect hue and cry an wailing and gnashing of teeth if/when a cherished forward is turned into a defenseman. Even if it turns out to be Yakupov for cripes sake. Remember when we relieved when at least they traded Cogliano instead of Gagner for magic, magic beans?

    Notable for me? The ages of the players. Talbot is the oldest of the group they’re trying to turn north with. I’m interested in who of the 2010-2012 drafts are available.

  67. Genjutsu says:

    I wonder if some of the resentment we seem to be seeing/feeling is due to a sort of draft dependence/addiction we have occurred in the long years of aimless nothingness.

    It’s like we had our candy taken from us and we don’t like it.

  68. WeirsBeard says:

    Genjutsu:
    I wonder if some of the resentment we seem to be seeing/feeling is due to a sort of draft dependence/addiction we have occurred in the long years of aimless nothingness.

    It’s like we had our candy taken from us and we don’t like it.

    I like the adds they made, and the picks they did make seem decent. My anxiety lies with the fact that the team needs two defenders added at the top of the order.

  69. theres oil in virginia says:

    Not sure if anyone posted this already, or if anyone cares anymore now that Talbot is here, but Dubnyk re-signed in Minny:

    http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/13159358/devan-dubnyk-re-signs-minnesota-wild-six-year-deal

  70. Gret99zky says:

    Genjutsu:
    I wonder if some of the resentment we seem to be seeing/feeling is due to a sort of draft dependence/addiction we have occurred in the long years of aimless nothingness.

    It’s like we had our candy taken from us and we don’t like it.

    It’s like spending a year planning a trip to Disneyland, arriving, and not going on any of the rides.

  71. spoiler says:

    Things to like…

    I like that all of Nurse, Treble Klef and Reinhart have all played the right side. It remains to be seen if one of them is a long term solution there, but at least they have the versatility in the short term when the inevitable injury bug splatters the windshield.

    I like that Gryba is less than half the cap cost of McQuaid and a couple of years younger. We should be getting the heart of his career.

    I like that Talbot had a stretch where he had to be the number one guy. I think it adds a little more weight to his sample size.

    And I really like me some McDavid.

  72. striatic says:

    Genjutsu:
    I wonder if some of the resentment we seem to be seeing/feeling is due to a sort of draft dependence/addiction we have occurred in the long years of aimless nothingness.

    It’s like we had our candy taken from us and we don’t like it.

    I don’t think that’s it exactly but it is something similar.

    People would have been ecstatic getting Hamilton, even for significantly more than Calgary paid. It is a black and white thing. People valuing either raw draft selections or “established” players.

    What Chiarelli did was split the difference. Talbot and Reinhart are not yet established but they also aren’t totally raw. Talbot has a limited sample size that looks good, Reinhart has a limited sample size that looks not so good. In both cases one hopes that the Oilers looked past the sample sizes and looked more directly at the player.

    Griffin Reinhart has had a bad 56 game stretch leading up to today. Cam Talbot has had a great 57 game stretch leading up to today. Before his stretch, Talbot looked ok. Before Reinhart’s stretch, he looked phenomenal. We are in the muddy grey but that’s where the best value is if you make the right call. Results can be good and more immediate if you’ve made the right call.

    I hope Chiarelli has made the right calls.

  73. Woodguy says:

    stephen sheps:
    Woodguy,

    to be fair, Donovan didn’t play any AHL games this year either and played in 52 NHL games in 13-14. I don’t think this was a player called up ahead of anyone including GR but rather the Isles pre-existing 7D

    Good catch. I mistook is 13/14 for 14/15

  74. Магия 10 says:

    Gret99zky,

    Gret99zky: It’s like spending a year planning a trip to Disneyland, arriving, and not going on any of the rides.

    No. It’s like arriving at the park and skipping Fantasyland to go straight to Tomorrowland.

  75. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    Just trying to summarize the draft in my head.The Oil came out with

    McDavid
    Reinhart
    Talbot
    Gryba
    Jones Jr.
    Paygin
    Marino
    and Ricki’s cousin
    and half the compensation dealt with.

    They drafted well where they had picks.They picked up an older, more sure bet than the 16 and 33 picks and attended to organizational need there at D, and in net. Talbot was the most coveted goalie available and they got him for less than advertised. They switched a leftie for a rightie, giving up some youth and upside for experience and truculence (Sutton tree).Nothing from the BCJHL…

    I think this was a strong weekend’s work for Chia.

    Just due to the number of defence on the backend, I’m wondering if we’re more likely to see a trade rather than a UFA signing at this point.Or buyout + signing.

    That’s a fair assessment.

    It will be a few years before we can come to a conclusion on the Reinhart trade, but I was always willing to trade those picks for a Dman, just wanted one with a track record of playing top 4 NHL minutes.

    There’s going to be a lot of rookies on the back end next year.

    Lots of work to do on the D still.

  76. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    AsiaOil:
    I’d still like to acquire a vet to go with Talbot – would feel much more comfortable with that setup than Talbot/Scrivens which is asking for trouble IMHO. But after today I see few options really aside from taking on a big contract like Lehtonen should Niemi sign in Dallas – and that’s not very appealing. So here’s hoping Talbot is the real goods and can handle 55 starts – we are screwed if he isnt and can’t. But better to find out now I guess instead of signing him longterm based on limited starts.

    Just like the trade for GR sealed Marincin’s fate – who ever we sign as a UFA seals another guys fate. An offensive guy like Franson means Shultz gets dealt or dumped – a more defensive or 2 way guy means Ference or Nikitn goes. But at least one of the three players does not last the week. Frankly I’d go scorched earth and bury Nikitin in the minors and buyout Ference.

    xxx Fayne
    Klef Shultz
    Reinhart Gryba

    Given what BOS did yesterday – trading Marincin makes a lot of sense now – but will they deal with EDM? That xxx on the first pair via trade or UFA is key – lots and lots of work left to do on defense but this mess cannot be fixed in one summer – plus goal is still unstable.

    Sekera would fit nicely. The question is how to get Nikitin and Ference out.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Gret99zky:
    I hope Hamilton’s agent is demanding north of $7M per year.If not, a team needs to offer sheet him to ensure he doesn’t sign for a nice cap friendly $5.5M.

    Offer him $7.2 X 2?

    This will also F up their qualifying offer for next contract, no?

    I hope Chi offer sheets him just to piss off Calgary

    Interesting that they paid out SJS this year.

    Make me think they *may* want all their picks next year for an offer sheet next week.

    I’d offer sheet Saad if he doesn’t sign right away.

  78. Alpine says:

    striatic,
    Was Reinhart’s recent stretch that bad? Seems like he just had a difficult adjustment to playing tough minutes against men while getting some points on board in the process. The guy who supposedly passed him on the depth chart, Ryan Pulock, only put up marginally better numbers.

  79. Woodguy says:

    oilswell,

    Trying to turn north was going to be painful, particularly for a community that loves their young players.

    Many in this community prefer Actual NHL players.

  80. Woodguy says:

    WeirsBeard: I like the adds they made, and the picks they did make seem decent. My anxiety lies with the fact that the team needs two defenders added at the top of the order.

    They may not do much if a trade isn’t there.

    $14MM comes off the books next year and the UFA crop of D next year is miles better than this one.

    I’d prefer they not blow their brains out on Franson or Green.

    A quiet 2 year deal for Mihalek would be perfect.

  81. Picturesque says:

    Woodguy: I hope Chi offer sheets him just to piss off Calgary

    Interesting that they paid out SJS this year.

    Make me think they *may* want all their picks next year for an offer sheet next week.

    I’d offer sheet Saad if he doesn’t sign right away.

    I read somewhere in a previous thread that Calgary has exclusive negotiating rights to Hamilton for 6 days…. which brings us to July 2nd (or 3rd?). I don’t know where to find the info to confirm this, but I would be surprised if Calgary takes that long to get Hamilton signed. If this is fact, the offer sheet idea might for someone else – who is currently RFA and fit the mold?

  82. Магия 10 says:

    Picturesque: I read somewhere in a previous thread that Calgary has exclusive negotiating rights to Hamilton for 6 days…. which brings us to July 2nd (or 3rd?).I don’t know where to find the info to confirm this, but I would be surprised if Calgary takes that long to get Hamilton signed. If this is fact, the offer sheet idea might for someone else – who is currently RFA and fit the mold?

    It can be about credibly offering a trade instead of executing an os.

  83. square_wheels says:

    Woodguy,

    There is a very real chance that a 2 yr contract for a vet like Michalek or Martin is all we can afford.

    If Nikitin doesn’t show up in excellent condition, and we bury him in Bakersfield, can their be a mutual termination of the contract for him to return to the motherland ?

  84. WeirsBeard says:

    Woodguy: They may not do much if a trade isn’t there.

    $14MM comes off the books next year and the UFA crop of D next year is miles better than this one.

    I’d prefer they not blow their brains out on Franson or Green.

    A quiet 2 year deal for Mihalek would be perfect.

    Yeah, I only expect one D added too. Would like two. Mihalek and Sekera would be grand.

  85. godot10 says:

    Picturesque: I read somewhere in a previous thread that Calgary has exclusive negotiating rights to Hamilton for 6 days…. which brings us to July 2nd (or 3rd?).I don’t know where to find the info to confirm this, but I would be surprised if Calgary takes that long to get Hamilton signed. If this is fact, the offer sheet idea might for someone else – who is currently RFA and fit the mold?

    Hamilton is a RFA. The talk period is open when one can talk to free agents, but not negotiate with them. Only Calgary can negotiate and sign him before July 1.

    I still think an offersheet 4 x $7.3 million on July 1 is a worthwhile.

  86. striatic says:

    Alpine:
    striatic,
    Was Reinhart’s recent stretch that bad? Seems like he just had a difficult adjustment to playing tough minutes against men while getting some points on board in the process. The guy who supposedly passed him on the depth chart, Ryan Pulock, only put up marginally better numbers.

    I meant “bad” in the sense that his boxcars weren’t overwhelming and there has been talk about him taking a step back which for a 4th overall pick is “bad”.

    There may have been mitigating circumstances like Bridgeport’s D being depleted by injury leaving Reinhart and company with little support.

    I don’t really want to focus on whether the season was “bad” or merely “not good” .. what I’d like to focus on is that it was 56 games, and that jumping to conclusions about any player in a 56 game stretch is a bad idea whether the player had a “good” 56 games or a “bad” 56 games. You don’t discount the games entirely but also don’t let recency bias blind you from the other things the player has accomplished.

  87. striatic says:

    Picturesque: . If this is fact, the offer sheet idea might for someone else – who is currently RFA and fit the mold?

    Well, there’s this guy in the Toronto Maple Leafs organization…

  88. Gret99zky says:

    Магия 10:
    Gret99zky,

    No. It’s like arriving at the park and skipping Fantasyland to go straight to Tomorrowland.

    Well played.

  89. oilswell says:

    Woodguy:
    oilswell,

    Trying to turn north was going to be painful, particularly for a community that loves their young players.

    Many in this community prefer Actual NHL players.

    Yeah, I agree, a good point but as a community the preference it seems unevenly applied. Just consider Talbot vs Niemi compared to Gryba vs McQuaid or Reinhart vs Coburn because those names were bandied about and there is no point talking about Hamilton.

    “We” are happy betting on Talbot and Scrivens but not Reinhart + Klefbom + Nurse? Chiarelli could have chosen the McQuaid/Beauchemin/Niemi style path or the Barzal/Roy/Beauviller path but he clearly chose bets to go to the next level over known quantities or <50:50 gambles. Of course we prefer the OEL and Faulk Actual NHL players but balk at the cost to acquire (Hall+ for OEL), so let's not pretend those types of Actual NHL players are options on the comparison chart here. I would guess that in their minds the Oilers turned non-cash high risk assets into lower risk good bets across the board on the three acquisitions, and in doing so didn't burden their cap future, kept their free agent/salary dumpe warchest in cap space, added competition in D and G, but the main thing "we" seem concerned with is Reinhart=risk (but Talbot big smile) and the gambles we had at the draft that were acquired by a different gambler. Curious perspective IMO.

    BTW I would fire Green if he spent his time doing pro scouting. Chiarelli better damn well have asked his opinion, but he sure has heck should mainly be asking the pro scouts, plus he has watched a bit of him himself. That's a bet that has little to do with Green or the Oil Kings, or should have. Even if MacTavish was a voice we enjoyed it when he was singing the praises of Nurse and Klefbom…

    Anyway good point, but to me the love of young promising, somewhat experienced-but-still-unproven players seems strongest only when they’re Oilers’ property already.

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