(ALMOST!) BALANCE!

The summer’s work is done, we’ll have a fireworks event on the weekend but sometimes those old rockets don’t go off so be sure to have a backup plan. The Oilers enter every summer with some ridiculous number of needs (“well, we need a No. 1D, No. 2L and a No. 3C. Then on day TWO….”) but the difference these days is we know the names that answer the questions that have dashed our time. Connor McDavid, Darnell Nurse, Cam Talbot—some will be here in the fall, others are a down the road apiece.

PETER CHIARELLI’S LIST

  1. Draft McDavid and sign him (Done)
  2. Find a quality goalie option (Cam Talbot)
  3. Acquire a legit top pairing blue (Andrej Sekera)
  4. Sign a two-way F (Lauri Korpikoski)
  5. Ignore MacT re: Marincin (Or trade Marincin for real value) (Eric Gryba)
  6. Veteran two-way center (Mark Letestu)

Some of these moves look like home runs (McDavid, Talbot, Sekera) and others look like reasonable bets (Korpikoski, Gryba, Letestu) but are not 100% home runs. Here’s some news: Sam Pollock is dead and the league doesn’t let the Habs re-write the rule book every summer, so the bets overall are satisfactory. Taking those moves (plus the Reinhart add), Edmonton appears to have better depth and quality up the middle and that was a dire need entering draft week. No grand claims today, though. Words of praise written in July can bite you in the ass when the skies of November turn gloomy. The one claim I will make today: The Edmonton Oilers will be an improved team in 2015-16—more wins, better goal differential, visually and certifiably better.

THE CURRENT PRO ROSTEROILERS ROSTER AND CAP

  • Cap is $71.4 million, Oilers have $2,183,000 in cap room.
  • I don’t have Darnell Nurse, Griffin Reinhart or Leon Draisaitl on the opening night roster above. I do believe Nurse makes it but the other two have cap implications. Bonuses are more reachable if either or both play 82 games, so in my opinion the more likely and prudent decision is to have both start in the minors. It isn’t a reflection of either players ability, but rather a ‘numbers game’ as they used to say in the olden days. Speeds has more about the money here.
  • If they plan on trading for Brent Seabrook just before the season, they need to buy out Nikitin. If they don’t have grand plans like that, there’s no pressure to do a thing.
  • Chiarelli has significant depth compared to MacT’s rosters (or Tambellini’s) across the board. There are 4 goalies, 13 defensemen and 19 forwards with at least some NHL experience.
  • Some legit names will be on the waiver wire from Edmonton to Bakersfield. I’ll guess Anders Nilsson, Brandon Davidson, Brad Hunt and Andrew Miller. There’s no Anton Lander there but you could see Niki Nikitin, Rob Klinkhammer and Luke Gazdic if the minor leaguers win jobs.
  • Value contracts that are certain for NHL work? Cam Talbot, Oscar Klefbom, Connor McDavid, Anton Lander. Nail Yakupov could be one, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart, too. Ben Scrivens believe it or not, could be one.
  • Taylor Hall is a value contract and Nuge will be too. I’m prepared to argue this all day. ALL day.

50-MAN LIST

  1. G Cam Talbot (Even a .915SP would move the needle. This guy is better than .915)
  2. G Ben Scrivens (Nothing lights a fire like career extinction as a possibility)
  3. G Anders Nilsson (Solid resume, probably just a curio but one never knows)
  4. G Laurent Brossoit (AHL starter could be future No. 1)
  5. G Eetu Laurikainen (Love this bet. Smart teams sign these guys)
  6. D Andrej Sekera (A major addition to the Oilers. Top drawer.)
  7. D Mark Fayne (Shutdown defender on a team that badly needs him)
  8. D Oscar Klefbom (McLellan is good at helping young blue progress)
  9. D Justin Schultz (Puck moving defender, regular)
  10. D Nikita Nikitin (Is Saturday just another day?)
  11. D Eric Gryba (Third pairing addition who can play, Yost said so)
  12. D Andrew Ference (Erosion looks nearly complete)
  13. D Brandon Davidson (Waiver eligible, this is going to be close)
  14. D Griffin Reinhart (It’s not a matter of if, only when)
  15. D Darnell Nurse (Say hello to the future)
  16. D Brad Hunt (Last chance Texaco? Or a new beginning?)
  17. D David Musil (Stay-at-home blue facing uphill battle)
  18. D Jordan Oesterle (He could flourish under McLellan)
  19. D Dillon Simpson (Still working, suspect he gets full entry-level deal in AHL)
  20. D Martin Gernat (In the worst spot of any roster player. Prospect orphan)
  21. D Ben Betker (He has a nice combination of skills)
  22. D Joey Laleggia (His skills are somewhat unique, could blossom in Bakersfield)
  23. C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (Nuge is going to make them all pay)
  24. C Connor McDavid (Franchise)
  25. C Anton Lander (It’s vital he deliver at 2015 levels next season)
  26. C Mark Letestu (Strong option at C, he can play other positions)
  27. C Leon Draisaitl (Willing to play the wing, and that could get him to the NHL in the fall)
  28. C Bogdan Yakimov (Big man can play. Can he score?)
  29. C Jujhar Khaira (Big man needs to show offense or could be gone)
  30. C Kyle Platzer (New pro has two-way skills)
  31. L Taylor Hall (Just coming into his own, good health should mean major numbers)
  32. L Benoit Pouliot (Vital to the club’s overall look. Big, strong, good)
  33. L Lauri Korpikoski (Fast winger with experience, two-way skills. Mentor)
  34. L Matt Hendricks (May see minutes on skill line)
  35. L Luke Gazdic (McLellan uses this player type)
  36. L Ryan Hamilton (Chiarelli may prefer his own AHL mentor)
  37. L Anton Slepyshev (Big opportunity, coach has no memory of any of the bubbling under)
  38. L Mitch Moroz (McLellan will be impressed with size/speed combination)
  39. L Kale Kessy (If that speed spike last year was no fluke, he’ll be a factor)
  40. R Jordan Eberle (He’s going to play on a fabulous line)
  41. R Nail Yakupov  (A big season for a big talent)
  42. R Teddy Purcell (Soft hands will get him all kinds of chances on top 2 lines)
  43. R Rob Klinkhammer (He’s in a little trouble for a roster spot, still has best chance for 4R)
  44. R Tyler Pitlick (Staying healthy is the biggest job)
  45. R Iiro Pakarinen (Big, strong, fast. He’ll get noticed)
  46. R Andrew Miller (Perhaps the most skill of the bubbling under RW’s)
  47. R Greg Chase (Physical, skilled, best agitator on the roster)

 WHY DO YOU HATE NIKITIN?

I don’t hate Niki Nikitin but (from what we know) he had a back injury last season and those things are absolutely the devil. Back injuries come and go, and the poor bastard who has it can’t predict much beyond the weather. If we agree that Niki Nikitin had back issues last season, all of the following statements make sense:

  • Craig MacTavish, March 2: “Nikita was playing better, he started off slowly, I don’t think he was in the best shape that he could have been, we have to get that rectified next year. But he was getting into shape and he’s a top-four NHL defenceman.” Source
  • Niki Nikitin, March 11: “I don’t know, I was in shape. I was in good shape. That was never a problem.” Source
  • Niki Nikitin, March 11: “Yeah, it has been frustrating for me. This is the first time in my career I’ve injured my shoulder. And then in the middle of the season, I hurt my back and it was the first time I did that. In the past all I’ve ever had was ankle injuries, blocking a shot or something like that. It’s been a tough year.” Source
  • Niki Nikitin, March 11: “I was reaching for a puck and I slipped a disk. Then I got hit in Winnipeg by (Evander) Kane and I hurt it again.” Source
  • Todd Nelson, March 11: “I think he’s better conditioned, I’m not saying he wasn’t in shape. The system that we want to play, you have to be conditioned in a way that is maybe different from playing in the other system. We’re very active, our D are very active getting in the forecheck. Before he got injured, I think he was playing the best hockey that I’ve seen him and we’re hoping that he comes back he can pick it up where he left off.” Source

I think it was the back injury and if he had it last season we can’t be sure it’s going to be fine. Todd Nelson’s comments are also very interesting, not sure how to filter that but we’ll see.

OPTIONS

This weekend (not sure about the window open, might be today if we pace off 48 hours from Schultz’ signing) we may see a buyout from the Oilers. I’m less convinced today than I was when Edmonton took Schultz to arbitration but it’ll be a fun weekend all the same. Here are some things to ponder:

  • Buying out Nikitin (or Ference, or Purcell) and keep the powder dry until the period where teams have to become cap compliant. We might call this the Leddy-Boychuk window, as the Islanders improved in a heartbeat due to other teams cap hell.
  • Buying out Nikitin (or Ference, or Purcell) and keep the powder dry until the trade deadline. Peter Chiarelli acquired Andrew Ference, Aaron Ward and Dennis Wideman within a 21 day span at the 2006-07 trade deadline, effectively turning over his defense in three weeks.
  • Buying out no one and waiting to see if Nikitin has trade value after the signings of Christian Ehrhoff and Cody Franson (this is the option Bob Stauffer has been touting).

I think we should be prepared for Peter Chiarelli to be aggressive and take what the market gives him. The lesson of Cam Talbot is this: Chiarelli may have something in mind, but he doesn’t rush in Friday night to make the deal, but rather waits until the price is more palatable to improve his team. A smart, measured approach is going to win over the long term.

We should be prepared for everything, including nothing.

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137 Responses to "(ALMOST!) BALANCE!"

  1. Ben says:

    If there’s a buyout coming, does that mean a waiver announcement today?

  2. PhrankLee says:

    Great post, LT.

    Love the (almost). I am just keen on the club improving to .500

    Anything above that would seem like too much to ask for. I hear rumblings of “competing for a playoff spot..”

    I think that’s a bar too high.

  3. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    I say Nurse & Drai in the minors.

    Defence:

    Sekera/Fayne
    Klefbom/Schultz
    Reinhart/Gryba
    Davidson/Ference

    Nikitin in the minors (Davidson replacing him saves us $400k against the cap).

    More important than my pure speculation on the lineup:

    Can we talk about why you “can’t” put Ference in the pressbox?

    He was awarded the C by the last coach, it would be perfectly reasonable to ask him to pass it along. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would expect that he would wear it for 4 years.

    Whether he has the C or not, the coach ices the best lineup. Having your C in the pressbox is weird, but I fail to see why it’s a problem. He can watch the game, and talk to players between periods about what he has seen. If his only value is in the locker room and as an advice giver, it sure seems like the pressbox (basically the Rocky Thompson role) is where he’s the best fit.

  4. dustrock says:

    I do like the option of buying out Nikitin regardless, just to have the cap space in case a d-man of repute becomes available early in the season.

    I mean, getting Leddy and Boychuk I’d say single-handedly propelled the Islanders towards the playoffs.

    Regarding the NHL/AHL d-man logjam, Young Willis wrote something today about how Edmonton should trade some of the D prospects, either for other teams’ F prospects, or picks (or as sweetener in a package).

  5. Yeti says:

    > “Taylor Hall is a value contract and Nuge will be too. I’m prepared to argue this all day. ALL day”.

    When RNH finally hits 50 points you might actually win that argument.

  6. Lowetide says:

    Yeti:
    > “Taylor Hall is a value contract and Nuge will be too. I’m prepared to argue this all day. ALL day”.

    When RNH finally hits 50 points you might actually win that argument.

    Everybody funny! (shakes fist, pulls muscle, falls in heap)

  7. zatch says:

    dustrock,

    Gonna disagree with you here. Halak put them in the playoffs, as Snow, for some reason, refused to update his goaltending for several seasons and they were still a bubble/occasional playoff team. Nabby was done and posting well below league average numbers. They would have won the 2013 playoff series against Pittsburgh if it weren’t for his shoddy goaltending.

    Leddy and Boychuck DID make them more than a mere bubble/first round team though.

  8. Yeti says:

    On a serious note, unless there is a piece out there that would fit nicely into the medium term plans, I wouldn’t effect the buyout. We can live with Nikitin (and Purcell) for another year without taking the penalties that buyouts entail. Likewise, Ference is best bought out next year if its going to happen.

    In short, we need to pay this year for the sins of previous years. Hold the course, there’s better options this time next year. It’s frustrating because we’re getting close, but it’s the right thing to do.

  9. DBO says:

    Almost balance! I so want the “Balance” picture you have been teasing for years (a lot of years).

    Slow day at work, so did some digging around for that mythical balance lineup. Some sites mention Philly (think it was hockeybuzz) looking to move a dman for cap flexibility. And there are some solid free agents still out there that would make us better and we do have a lack of NHL centre depth (we have players, but man we are still young and smallish). Keeping in mind the McDavid and Nurse deals in 3 seasons, any add should be 1 or 2 years. 3 max. So using buy out, plus a deal with salary retained for this season and a UFA addition I think we can bring as much balance as possible right now and compete for playoffs.

    – Buy out Nikitin (saves $3 mill)
    – Trade Purcell ($1.5 mill salary retained) and a D prospect (Musil, etc.) to Philly for Streit = $5.25 cap for two years. He has solid two way Vollman numbers and can QB the PP, play a top 4 role or a 3rd pairing O role. If Philly is looking to move a dman and get cap space, this saves them $2.25 million and adds a forward (which they need). Cap wise a wash with the Nikitin buy out.
    – Sign Eric Fehr to a 2 or 3 year deal around $2.5 million (he is a more physical and offensively gifted Gordon. A true 3rd line, Right handed centre/RW). his vollman is a shutdown role, but he can score, has size and can play wing and centre. Gives us more NHL depth, size and two way ability.

    this puts us right near the cap (after you send someone down). But it balances out the roster, shelters or at least puts two real NHLers with each young player who needs help and pushes Nurse, Reinhart and Draisatl to the minors. All good things. Also allows McClellan to run yak up with McDavid at home, or have Lander or Fehr with McDavid and Hall to provide grit and two way play and also to take faceoffs if needed.

    Hall-McDavid-Lander
    Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle
    Korpikoski-Fehr-Yak
    Hendriks-Letestu-Klinkhammer
    Pitlick-Gazdic

    Sekera-Fayne
    Klefbom-Schultz
    Streit-Gryba
    Ference

  10. Woodguy says:

    Buying out no one and waiting to see if Nikitin has trade value after the signings of Christian Ehrhoff and Johnny Boychuk

    Did you mean Ehrhoff and Franson?

  11. dustrock says:

    zatch: dustrock, Gonna disagree with you here. Halak put them in the playoffs, as Snow, for some reason, refused to update his goaltending for several seasons and they were still a bubble/occasional playoff team. Nabby was done and posting well below league average numbers. They would have won the 2013 playoff series against Pittsburgh if it weren’t for his shoddy goaltending. Leddy and Boychuck DID make them more than a mere bubble/first round team though.

    Sorry, you’re right that they likely would have made the playoffs in the East, I should have said they immediately seemed like more legitimate contenders.

  12. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Woodguy:
    <b<Buying out no one and waiting to see if Nikitin has trade value after the signings of Christian Ehrhoff and Johnny Boychuk

    Did you mean Ehrhoff and Franson?

    Boychuck is a hockey player, he plays for the Islanders.

    Geez, it’s like you don’t even like Hockey.

  13. Snowman says:

    I don’t think the buyout window gets used. I’m going to take Chia Pete at his word and say Reinhart makes the team out of camp. Gryba makes the team out of camp because Chia Pete a) likes him and has for a while and b) traded for him. I don’t see any of Ference or Nikitin on the opening day roster.

    Nikitin will get buried in the minors at the start of the year unless he knocks it out of the park. Ference is the defacto #7. I don’t think they buyout TCAF but I also don’t think if they do it will prevent new players from wanting to come here. Winning is what matters to players.

    Nurse could change all of that depending on how much he knocks it out of the park and may bump Reinhart down at the start of the season.

    When you look at the depth chart there’s just no way Ference or Nikitin make it to the top 6. For once there is enough competition to force some players into the minors or the pressbox.

  14. dessert1111 says:

    Since there are a few B-level defensive prospects blocked in system, why not try to trade someone like Musil and a 3rd or 4th and Nikitin with salary retained for another team’s blocked B-level wing prospect? If there is a free agent to sign, that might make more sense than buying Nikitin out outright.

  15. Lowetide says:

    dessert1111:
    Since there are a few B-level defensive prospects blocked in system, why not try to trade someone like Musil and a 3rd or 4th and Nikitin with salary retained for another team’s blocked B-level wing prospect? If there is a free agent to sign, that might make more sense than buying Nikitin out outright.

    They’re all basically throw-ins at this point, which is the problem. Edmonton has some nice players in Bakersfield but they are still developing. Musil looks good, but what is his trade value? Still building a resume.

  16. G Money says:

    when the skies of November turn gloomy

    The goal horn chimed
    Til it rang 290 times

    13 for each man
    on the Edmonton Oilers

    Speaking of which, I saw other Canadian music legends The Greatest Band in This or Any Other Universe aka Rush on Wednesday night, and the first stanzas of “The Wreckers” certainly also seems to capture the last many years of struggle followed by the miraculous acquisition of McDavid … but we still need to be wary …


    The breaker’s roar
    On an unseen shore,
    In the teeth of a hurricane,
    Oh, we struggle in vain

    A hellish night,
    A ghostly light,
    Appears through the driving rain,
    Salvation in a human chain

    All I know is that sometimes you have to be wary
    of a miracle too good to be true

  17. Hammers says:

    Makes no difference if it’s Reinhart or Musil or any other D boiling under you still only play 6 plus 1 or2 extras . They have to have the guts to cut , trade , buy out , demote at least 2 , preferable 3 of there D . Will Chia do it and will it be by Sunday .

  18. rickithebear says:

    Great falls- craters of the moon- lava hot springs (river tubing/lost wedding ring) – yellowstone- mt rushmore- devils tower- now in a mcd’s in billings.

    DSF on hall made me realize.
    Seguin in the same situation in Edmonton would have crashed and burned!

    Yes to oduya!
    Buyout Purcell and Nikitin
    We wait and see.

  19. square_wheels says:

    G Money,

    Good gig I assume ? What a brilliant catalogue of music, these guys could tour forever given their musical ability.

    The RE series could be Rush for several years IMHO.

  20. Lowetide says:

    rickithebear:
    Great falls- craters of the moon- lava hot springs (river tubing/lost wedding ring) – yellowstone- mt rushmore- devils tower- now in a mcd’s in billings.

    DSF on hall made me realize.
    Seguin in the same situation in Edmonton would have crashed and burned!

    Yes to oduya!
    Buyout Purcell and Nikitin
    We wait and see.

    Oduya already said yes to Dallas.

  21. dustrock says:

    Someone on HFB spoke to Loik Leveille and he confirmed he will be attending training camp in September. Good news.

  22. RexLibris says:

    Hey LT,

    Sam Pollock is dead

    I’d heard Peter put him in charge of the Pearly Gates.

  23. Lowetide says:

    dustrock:
    Someone on HFB spoke to Loik Leveille and he confirmed he will be attending training camp in September.Good news.

    That’s excellent news. Bring Soy too!

  24. Lowetide says:

    Lander on his honeymoon in Venice
    https://twitter.com/Landie51/status/622019652940640256/photo/1

    I know, I know, but it’s summer and I’m damn happy he’s having a great 2015!

  25. kinger_OIL says:

    – You play Captain and NN as the bottom pair Vets, with gryba as the triangle – good lord surely between the three its good enough for bottom pair to not be totally blown-away?

    – You then trade one or both of them, for anything and let Reinhart and Nurse fight to play based on merit.

    – That’s what a good team would do

    – The only way you scupper cap space with a waiver: is to get a stud D, and that isn’t likely to happen

  26. square_wheels says:

    Lowetide,

    Not too many places on earth as romantic as Venice. This coming from a grumpy old troll, so take it for what it’s worth.

  27. Woodguy says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: Boychuck is a hockey player, he plays for the Islanders.

    Geez, it’s like you don’t even like Hockey.

    I’m such a dink.

  28. Mesmer says:

    Back injuries are tricky things, and it is never really clear when or if they have healed. So, has anyone examined the ramifications of simply putting Nikitin on LTIR for the entire season? If we can do that then all he costs the team is money this year, freeing up cap space this year and next.. Let Niki join the likes of Horton and Ohlund.

  29. Pajamah says:

    dustrock:
    Blue Bullet on Darnell Nurse comps:

    https://bluebulletreport.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/hello-nurse/

    Stop!!!

    I can only get so erect.

  30. dustrock says:

    Pajamah: Stop!!!I can only get so erect.

    That’s what I thought, and yet, since the lottery win….

  31. Lowetide says:

    Mesmer:
    Back injuries are tricky things, and it is never really clear when or if they have healed. So, has anyone examined the ramifications of simply putting Nikitin on LTIR for the entire season? If we can do that then all he costs the team is money this year, freeing up cap space this year and next.. Let Niki join the likes of Horton and Ohlund.

    That wouldn’t be fair to the player, though. Really MacT’s comments weren’t fair either, if we believe the back story (and I do). Backs can make young men look old in a hurry, just ghastly injury to get.

  32. G Money says:

    square_wheels:
    G Money,

    Good gig I assume ? What a brilliant catalogue of music, these guys could tour forever given their musical ability.

    The RE series could be Rush for several years IMHO.

    Brilliant. Beyond amazing. We should all be so fortunate as to be so incredibly good at something, still be getting better, and still having fun doing it at 60. Man.

    As I joked on Twitter with LinkFromHyrule (who was at the show) – generational talents!

    They played a 3 hour show, played between 1 and 3 songs per album, and not only left dozens of great songs unplayed, but didn’t even come close to playing all their albums.

  33. square_wheels says:

    Pajamah,

    What I really want to know is the story behind the story on Barker. Understanding how a player with so much pedigree just washes out very early, after all signs pointed to a promising career.

    Understanding why Barker failed is equally as important, although I’m not implying even slightly that Nurse has even a teaspoon of Barker in him.

  34. G Money says:

    dustrock:
    Someone on HFB spoke to Loik Leveille and he confirmed he will be attending training camp in September.Good news.

    RexLibris:
    Hey LT,

    I’d heard Peter put him in charge of the Pearly Gates.

    I heard Pollock will be attending training camp in September.

  35. Pajamah says:

    square_wheels:
    Pajamah,

    What I really want to know is the story behind the story on Barker. Understanding how a player with so much pedigree just washes out very early, after all signs pointed to a promising career.

    Understanding why Barker failed is equally as important, although I’m not implying even slightly that Nurse has even a teaspoon of Barker in him.

    Great point. He is absolutely the outlier of the group and most expected a really good player in Barker.

  36. G Money says:

    Lowetide: Really MacT’s comments weren’t fair either, if we believe the back story (and I do).

    I can’t remember if I was watching the game or just the lowlights, but I remember that nasty rut-in-the-ice wipeout that caused the injury, but I remember watching the knee, not the back, and thinking “holy sh*t, that looks bad, hope its not a season ending injury”.

    Then he came back way sooner than expected, but with rumours of back problems swirling.

    That makes complete sense, because if the knee and leg go all funny and DON’T suffer a serious tendonal or ligamental injury, then (I can tell you from experience) that the trauma just moves up the chain and into the back. It’s a question of where, not if, you pay the price.

    So yeah, I do buy the whole back thing. Not only do the Oilers have a well deserved reputation for bringing players back too soon (hello Sam. hello Taylor), but back issues more than others can seem fine, and yet linger for months.

  37. Woogie63 says:

    What to do to swing the balance in our favour (Without Weber for a 7th round pick suggestions)

    IF NN is healthy this year isn’t he “about” as good as Leddy?

    Our seventh dman plays about 25 games year isn’t a healthy NN better, than Potter, Larsen, Aulie

    IF NN plays 50% better this year is he worth a 4th round pick?
    —————

    If Purcell plays will Hall and McDavid and re-Establishs he can score in February is he worth a second rounder
    —————

    This year’s UFA were bad …. Lets wait for a trade we can get the player, term, dollars that work for us, boring but smart

    ————–

    Let Nurse, Dri, Shelyshev, Reinhart grow in the AHL for +30 games

  38. LMHF#1 says:

    kinger_OIL:
    – You play Captain and NN as the bottom pair Vets, with gryba as the triangle – good lord surely between the three its good enough for bottom pair to not be totally blown-away?

    How do you figure? Ference will give up game-killing goals where ever you play him, and the coach will probably think he has to play him on the PK too, where he will get lit up like a cheap pinball machine.

    He needs to go for this team not to have a giant, win-crushing black hole in the lineup.

  39. Ducey says:

    I am going to rage about the memes that run thru this place. A few people say something and all of a sudden is black and white gospel.

    The latest is that Ference is some piece of crap, easily replaceable by Davidson.

    Is Ference getting old? Yep. Has he lost a step? Maybe. I don’t see any stats on steps/ 60. Its hard to know. All I can see is that he was asked to play the hardest zone starts of any defenseman on the Oilers last year.

    He had the lowest OZ starts and the most DZ starts ON THE TEAM!. And he struggled? Wow, go figure. He was always sheltered in his prime with BOS. His OZ/ DZ splits were the worst of his career. He got fed to the wolves last year.

    Give him some easier zone starts, and he just might surprise everyone how useful he is.

    If you can replace him with someone clearly better (I am not sure that is Franson or Ehrhoff (concussions)) great, but you don’t buy him out just to buy him out. Silly.

  40. LMHF#1 says:

    Ducey:
    I am going to rage about the memes that run thru this place.A few people say something and all of a sudden is black and white gospel.

    The latest is that Ference is some piece of crap, easily replaceable by Davidson.

    He is. This isn’t a meme. You watch the team play last year? He’s broken.

    I’m assuming for instance that you’re forgetting the streak he had where he was on for i believe it was 12 straight goals against at one point?

  41. Mr. D. says:

    Yeti,

    Well the team should be able to get the puck out of their zone so that would help. TEAM DEFENSE will lead to better offensive opportunities on takeaways and turnovers. We have enough finishers.

  42. RexLibris says:

    G Money:
    I heard Pollock will be attending training camp in September.

    I’m not sure how LT would feel about having Pollock on his side.

    It’s the Bruins fan in him that feeds the anger, I think.

    Sather and Hugh Campbell were despised around their respective leagues in their heyday as well.

    I see LT’s next meeting with Pollock going something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ETCM90yHiY

  43. Магия 10 says:

    LMHF#1: He is. This isn’t a meme. You watch the team play last year? He’s broken.

    A broken meme or a broken record?

  44. LMHF#1 says:

    Магия 10: A broken meme or a broken record?

    thebrokencaptainandrewference

  45. Ducey says:

    LMHF#1: He is. This isn’t a meme. You watch the team play last year? He’s broken.I’m assuming for instance that you’re forgetting the streak he had where he was on for i believe it was 12 straight goals against at one point?

    I watched him play. I don’t put much stock in GA. I don’t remember him playing in net.

    Remember when all the “saw him bad” people didn’t like Petry? He used to make a lot of brutal turnovers too. Remember when he blasted a slap shot, top shelf on his own net?

    Good times.

    Didn’t mean a lot.

    And no I am not saying Ference is Petry. I am just saying that keeping Ference around, given the cost of a buyout and the lack of clearly better alternatives, might just work.

    People need to consider the circumstances players play in before condemning/ promoting them.

  46. admiralmark says:

    Yeti: On a serious note, unless there is a piece out there that would fit nicely into the medium term plans, I wouldn’t effect the buyout. We can live with Nikitin (and Purcell) for another year without taking the penalties that buyouts entail. Likewise, Ference is best bought out next year if its going to happen.In short, we need to pay this year for the sins of previous years. Hold the course, there’s better options this time next year. It’s frustrating because we’re getting close, but it’s the right thing to do.

    This! Keep the powder dry for better targets. Plus give these kids incentive to prove themselves. This year for me isnt so much pushing for a playoff spot(although i wouldnt complain) but also pushing for respectability in this league. As things stand this is very reacheable with the players in place currently.

  47. LMHF#1 says:

    Ducey: I watched him play.I don’t put much stock in GA.I don’t remember him playing in net.

    Remember when all the “saw him bad” people didn’t like Petry?He used to make a lot of brutal turnovers too.Remember when he blasted a slap shot, top shelf on his own net?

    Good times.

    Didn’t mean a lot.

    And no I am not saying Ference is Petry.I am just saying that keeping Ference around, given the cost of a buyout and the lack of clearly better alternatives, might just work.

    People need to consider the circumstances players play in before condemning/ promoting them.

    A player is part of giving up a dozen in a row and you’re just supposed to ignore it? Nope.

    Petry did do a lot of stupid things. He had a lot of learning to do. He was also young and developing. I don’t much like the way Jeff Petry plays the game given his skillset, but that doesn’t mean he’s flat out bad. You can see a player’s flaws, be very annoyed by them, and still appreciate if he makes a positive difference. Petry did. Ference doesn’t.

    The cost of the buyout is minimal, especially considering the opportunity to add a better hockey player for the same cap space for the next 2 years.

    There are also numerous alternatives within the system at this point including the guy you named.

    You know what you have in Ference, and not only that, but it is getting older and worse every day. No reason to keep him if you don’t have to.

  48. LMHF#1 says:

    admiralmark: This! Keep the powder dry for better targets. Plus give these kids incentive to prove themselves. This year for me isnt so much pushing for a playoff spot(although i wouldnt complain) but also pushing for respectability in this league. As things stand this is very reacheable with the players in place currently.

    History shows most of those supposedly better options will be signed before July 1.

  49. zatch says:

    Yeti,

    I feel strongly that a 20th place finish (if with improving underlying numbers) is a good balance of both real tangible improvement and one more good 1st rounder to support the McDavid cluster.

  50. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Ducey,

    Count me in the cap that believes Davidson as a straight across replacement for Ference is an upgrade. I would, quite clearly, rather have Davidson play limited 3rd pairing minutes than Ference at this point.

    I like Ference. He’s a good guy, he’s a veteran. With that out of the way, just because a player has a contract and has experience, doesn’t mean he should still play in the NHL. We could go out and give Andy Moog a contract tomorrow, but if we put him in net we’d be worse off for it.

    Ference isn’t capable of playing at an NHL level anymore, and he will only get worse at his age. That’s OK, he’s had a great career and I respect the hell out of him for what he’s accomplished, especially because of the style of game he plays in spite of the physical tools he was born with.

    Heck of a guy, used to be a heck of a player. Wish him nothing but happiness going forward.

  51. G Money says:

    Ducey,

    I don’t think anyone fails to recognize that Ference was put in a role that he was grossly unsuited for.

    That’s what we rail on MacT for – everyone it seems but him recognized that Ference might do OK in a 4D/5D type of role, but he got term and a $ figure, and then ice time, that is too high for his age and capability.

    As for his zone starts and results – not sure what the argument is, it doesn’t matter whether you use the eye, the results, or the fancystats – Ference was terrible last year.

    Would he do better on a bottom pairing role with 13 mins a night against easier opposition? Of course he would.

    However, given how slow and small he looked, I doubt very much he’s better in that role than any of Nikitin, Gryba, Nurse, and Reinhart, let alone all of them.

    Hell, I think Davidson and Oesterle were both better. The only guy visually or statistically in the same class last year as Ference was Aulie.

    But that’s what we, or at least I, really fear – that TCAF gets played next year on the bottom pairing ahead of guys who are flat out better. Because contract, and because captain, and because “leadership”, and because “grit”. Instead of “actual results on the ice”.

    I do not think its an idle fear. It is one of the many roster selection dysfunctions that has gripped this team for years, and like so many other dysfunctions, we won’t believe its gone until it happens.

    Now on the other hand, if you’re right, if in that role TCAF is actually better on the ice than all the other guys he’s competing for 5/6D with, then no problem.

    But for that to happen, Ference needs to be a lot better than he was last year. At 36 and on a multi-year downtrend, I just don’t see it happening.

  52. stush18 says:

    Sven baertchsi(?) has rejected his qualifying offer, and is now open to offer sheets. Apparently Vancouver is still working to get a multi-year deal done.

    Any teams out there willing to offer sheet him?

    I could see Toronto, Arizona, San Jose, Pittsburgh. Anyone else?

    I think 3 yrs x 2 mill might make van take the compensation. Which would be a second rounder? What they gave up for him?

    I think he fits torontos speed/skill vibe. Not sure they wanna give up picks right now tho. San Jose makes sense as well, they need some younger forwards, and could step into the top nine there.

  53. square_wheels says:

    Ference has a major flaw in his game that is being magnified by age.

    He is a below average skater. Possesses a short, choppy stride, is too upright when he makes his outside turns to pinch out the attacking winger. When you’re not big and heavy, you don’t have much to offer as an aging D.

    His gaps are too large because he’s cheating for position. The reason we’re considering Erhoff is he can still skate well. Lubo is a maybe, he’s quick but not fast.

    If a D can’t skate well, he better be a cycle breaker extraordinaire but you should never be spending much resources developing these player types. I take the Ken Holland approach, sign a bottom 5/6 D that can clear the crease, make an ok pass to a winger and knows his deficiencies well enough to not go slogging into the corner to only get burned by a slick forward.

    Tampa lost the cup because they had a few too many D that are below average skaters and Chicago owned them in the cycle and wide attacking wingers.

  54. square_wheels says:

    G Money,

    He can’t skate – end of story. Chia had better deal with this, I won’t tolerate another slippery interview where were sold something with “leadership” “grit” “veteran” and “mentor”.

    Let’s hope our young lawyer from Toronto is in the room, the #’s don’t lie, and we know he would be screaming for this as well.

  55. godot10 says:

    dustrock:

    I mean, getting Leddy and Boychuk I’d say single-handedly propelled the Islanders towards the playoffs.

    The Islanders were a playoff team. They missed the playoffs the following season because they had no goaltending AND Taveres got hurt.

    A healthy Taveres and a goaltender and the Islanders likely would have been a playoff team even without Leddy and Boychuk. Leddy and Boychuk replaced Streit and MacDonald on the blueline from the previous playoff team.

  56. Spoils says:

    There should be a world where you can trade Ference and buyout Nikitin.

    Also, it seems everyone on every blog only talks about signing Ehroff/Franson or trading for Seabrook.

    Let me ask this – what are the odds 4 1st overalls would magically fit perfectly together on one team. We should be very happy to see a trade – as long as it brings fit and value back.

    A #1D is the second most important position (after McD) – look at what Keith Pronger Chara Doughty did (hint – they won Stanley Cups).

    This is a monster trade that could take a year to consummate… I want to see OEL, McDonaugh, Seth Jones, Hedman etc. etc. on this team sooner rather than later.

    With that D Core, and McD plus what’s left over from the trade, we win a bunch of cups.

  57. admiralmark says:

    LMHF#1: History shows most of those supposedly better options will be signed before July 1.

    When I say powder dry for targets I include trade possibilities. I don’t consider putting 5x 5 Million est. for Franson as a good use of Cap $$. The next move should be a 1st pair D and thats likely gonna have to be via trade. The cap space to make this an option is going to have to come from somewhere.

  58. Spoils says:

    Votes for Captain? What about no Captain to start the year?

  59. stush18 says:

    Spoils:
    Votes for Captain? What about no Captain to start the year?

    I would put a vote down for nuge. But I think they are going to wait an extra year and give it to mcdavid

  60. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    He had the lowest OZ starts and the most DZ starts ON THE TEAM!. And he struggled? Wow, go figure. He was always sheltered in his prime with BOS. His OZ/ DZ splits were the worst of his career. He got fed to the wolves last year.
    Give him some easier zone starts, and he just might surprise everyone how useful he is.

    i posted this in the main thread from yesterday:

    As per stats.hockeyanalysis.com:

    Straight 5v5 CF%
    SCHULTZ, JUSTIN 50.1
    KLEFBOM, OSCAR 49.9
    NIKITIN, NIKITA 48.8
    MARINCIN, MARTIN 48.7
    FAYNE, MARK 46.2
    FERENCE, ANDREW 45.2
    AULIE, KEITH 43.8

    Zone start adjusted CF%:
    KLEFBOM, OSCAR 49.6
    SCHULTZ, JUSTIN 49.1
    MARINCIN, MARTIN 48.6
    NIKITIN, NIKITA 48
    FAYNE, MARK 46.2
    FERENCE, ANDREW 44.9
    AULIE, KEITH 44.2

    I don’t think David Johnson adjusts quiet enough for zone starts, but that’s what we have.

    Also,

    Ference only had the dog shit Zone Starts with Petry and had better numbers with Petry than without.

    Ference with Petry
    38.5% OZS
    46% CF

    Ference without Petry
    49.4% OZS
    44% CF

    So,even with the easier zone starts, he wasn’t good.

    Petry proped him up when he played tough zone starts, and when Petry left he was given 2nd/3rd pairing duties and failed at that as well.

    WheatnOil posted this:

    Now, in order to do a with-or-without-you for the whole team, I like to just the goalies as proxies for the rest of the team, since they’re not changing lines obviously.
    Non-zone start adjusted:
    Scrivens with Ference (so Ference on the ice): 46.6% Corsi
    Scrivens without Ference (so Ference off the ice): 49.9%
    Fasth with Ference: 43.3%
    Fasth without Ference: 50.1%
    Zone-start adjusted:
    Scrivens with Ference: 45.9%
    Scrivens without Fernece: 49.2%
    Fasth with Ference: 43.8%
    Fasth without Ference: 50.0%
    So using zone start adjusted numbers, the Oilers without Ference still do much better than with Ference.

    There you go.

    I don’t think it qualifies as a meme if its just basic facts.

    Ference was a good player, had a good career, was played too high up the roster whille in Edmonton, but none of that adds up to spending $3.25 on a 6/7D for the next 2 years when the team is getting thick with young D who will earn that ice time over him.

    Also,

    The buyout isn’t onerous.

    Buying Ference out now would:
    -Save $2.58MM on the cap this year
    -Save $2.08MM on the cap next year
    -Cost $1.166MM on the cap in 17/18 and 18/19
    The immediate cap saving and ability to add a quality Dman far outweigh the cost in 17/18 – 18/19

    Given all the evidence its a pretty easy decision to buy him out if you don’t bring feelings into the equation.

  61. LMHF#1 says:

    admiralmark: When I say powder dry for targets I include trade possibilities. I don’t consider putting 5x 5 Million est. for Franson as a good use of Cap $$.

    I haven’t seen anyone suggesting making that kind of commitment. Why would a guy who’s still unsigned get 5×5?

    Most of the talk is around Ehrhoff on a 1 or 2 year deal.

  62. bendelson says:

    Spoils:
    Votes for Captain? What about no Captain to start the year?

    This is Hall’s team. He will wear the C this season and beyond.
    Are there others that could do a good job – sure.
    But I give it Hall and don’t look back.

  63. dustrock says:

    Hey super stats guys, has anyone taken a look at Ference with Eakins vs. Nelson?

    I also wonder, if some of us are advocating for Schultz to get a 2nd (5th?) chance with McLellan, maybe the same applies to Ference. Getting better overall D and better goaltending is going to make Ference look better as well, and minimize his weaknesses.

    Once again, before anyone jumps on me, I too would prefer a buyout/trade of Ference, I’m just not convinced it’s going to happen.

    So I’m trying to see if there’s any hope for him getting limited bottom-pairing minutes, say with someone like Gryba or Reinhart, and playing 50 games that way.

  64. square_wheels says:

    I was hoping the chances Ference was Captain to start next season were about the same as snow in Sydney.

    Then this happened : http://discvry.ca/yDTR3F

  65. JAG-041 says:

    “Taylor Hall is a value contract and Nuge will be too. I’m prepared to argue this all day. ALL day.”

    Why Lowetide is my favourite blogger

  66. Drew says:

    dustrock:
    Hey super stats guys, has anyone taken a look at Ference with Eakins vs. Nelson?

    I also wonder, if some of us are advocating for Schultz to get a 2nd (5th?) chance with McLellan, maybe the same applies to Ference.Getting better overall D and better goaltending is going to make Ference look better as well, and minimize his weaknesses.

    Once again, before anyone jumps on me, I too would prefer a buyout/trade of Ference, I’m just not convinced it’s going to happen.

    So I’m trying to see if there’s any hope for him getting limited bottom-pairing minutes, say with someone like Gryba or Reinhart, and playing 50 games that way.

    I know you are aware of the age/games growth development curve and the corresponding age decline curve (where older players have their abilities decrease as they face father time). Ferrence is on the big downside what makes you think he will get better at his advanced age? There is a possibility that Schultz can improve (at his age) and that suggests the extra chance.

  67. Woogie63 says:

    LT when do the rosters for the Young Stars tournament get announced?

  68. Numenius says:

    Spoils:
    Votes for Captain? What about no Captain to start the year?

    I’d make Hendricks the captain until McDavid is ready in a year or two. He’s a vet’s vet, brings it every night, knows how to talk to the media with something to say, and has the respect of the youth (unlike Ference).

    Nuge would be my second choice until McDavid. Hall lets his emotions get the better of him too much for captain, imo.

  69. Lowetide says:

    Sophie: it’s late in the summer early september

  70. dustrock says:

    Drew: I know you are aware of the age/games growth development curve and the corresponding age decline curve (where older players have their abilities decrease as they face father time). Ferrence is on the big downside what makes you think he will get better at his advanced age? There is a possibility that Schultz can improve (at his age) and that suggests the extra chance.

    More that having a better coaching staff with a better system, and just getting rid of the doldrums in the locker room about hopefully getting past October before being eliminated, is going to help any player.

    Edit: To be clear, I found it hard to accurately judge any of the Edmonton Oilers under Dallas Eakins.

    I’m hoping for improved performance from every single player on the roster who was here last year.

  71. Ducey says:

    Woodguy,

    Thanks for all that. I appreciate an analysis rather than the saw him bad.

    If Zone adjusted CF% is right, then that means Schultz is 2nd best Dman on the team. It means Fayne is just slightly better than Ference. It means NN = MM. Those certainly are not the memes around here.

    I also wonder how much the non Petry time was after Petry’s trade, during the Nelson days (when the whole team had a worse CF%), and in garbage time (the team was just playing out the stretch).

    It doesn’t look good, that’s for sure, but I can’t get past the impact of the zone starts, and we don’t know anything about competition.

    I wouldn’t buy him out. If they can live with him this season, he can be bought out next season and the hit is only for two years after this year, rather than three. If he does really struggle (or spend too much time scratched), there is a decent chance he might just retire, too.

  72. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Numenius,

    if we’re talking waiting 2 years, Nurse is the man

  73. One-Timer says:

    zatch:
    Yeti,

    I feel strongly that a 20th place finish (if with improving underlying numbers) is a good balance of both real tangible improvement and one more good 1st rounder to support the McDavid cluster.

    It’ll be a really good 1st-rounder when we win the lottery again next year.

    Whenever I’m feeling down about anything, I just think of Bettman’s face when the oil got McD. Then I’m smiling all over again!

  74. Bag of Pucks says:

    JAG-041:
    “Taylor Hall is a value contract and Nuge will be too. I’m prepared to argue this all day. ALL day.”

    Why Lowetide is my favourite blogger

    I laughed at that too.

    First thought was, “LT is prepared to argue all day? That sounds exhausting.”

    Second thought was. “LT is feeling his oats!”

    Last thought was, “LT is absolutely right about those contracts.”

  75. maudite says:

    Pull to respectable this year (20th starts chatter of “turning the corner”). Sell nikitin and Purcell at deadline and bring up whomever is hitting it out of park in ahl (nurse/drai)

    Go into next summer younger, better and with cap space in what could be a static cap and with it even easier to get players to sign on.

    Still an off chance you make it this year if things break right but regardless off what you do, no real chance you are winning it all. Save the cap space for year 2-3 of mcdavids elc.

  76. LadiesloveSmid says:

    what are the cap implications if Nikitin darts to the KHL (or is guided there)? is he still on the books for the whole season?

    as for Ference, he isn’t one of their 6 best D. Buyout is worth it. I’d rather see Reinhart of Nurse playing that 3L spot where they belong

  77. David says:

    Ducey: I watched him play.I don’t put much stock in GA.I don’t remember him playing in net.

    Remember when all the “saw him bad” people didn’t like Petry?He used to make a lot of brutal turnovers too.Remember when he blasted a slap shot, top shelf on his own net?

    Good times.

    Didn’t mean a lot.

    And no I am not saying Ference is Petry.I am just saying that keeping Ference around, given the cost of a buyout and the lack of clearly better alternatives, might just work.

    People need to consider the circumstances players play in before condemning/ promoting them.

    As a proud card carrying member of the seen him good seen him bad party, I saw Petry good from the first time he put on an Oilers sweater to the last time he put it on. Petry was “my player” his first couple of seasons when he was breaking onto the team because I “saw him good”

  78. Cameron says:

    square_wheels:
    G Money,

    He can’t skate – end of story. Chia had better deal with this, I won’t tolerate another slippery interview where were sold something with “leadership” “grit” “veteran” and “mentor”.

    Let’s hope our young lawyer from Toronto is in the room, the #’s don’t lie, and we know he would be screaming for this as well.

    When he was a Flame we often noted that the only thing Ference actually did well was skate. If that tool has rusted out he doesnt have many others left.

  79. Derek says:

    If the Oilers ever attain True Balance, LT should host a balance party with big screens flashing the famous balance picture in between shots of beautiful women and old timey hockey photos.

    It’s really the least he can do for us after keeping us all handcuffed to this catastrophic inferno of rubber for the past decade.

    🙂

  80. dustrock says:

    Cameron: When he was a Flame we often noted that the only thing Ference actually did well was skate. If that tool has rusted out he doesnt have many others left.

    Yes. For someone his size, he had to be smart, aggressive, and skate well. He’s in great shape, but he’s just too old and too little, and he’s definitely lost a step.

  81. square_wheels says:

    Cameron: When he was a Flame we often noted that the only thing Ference actually did well was skate. If that tool has rusted out he doesnt have many others left.

    dustrock,

    The great skaters can play forever. Watch Jaybo play until 40 just like Lidstrom.
    Lidstrom had some of the finest edges of any D, ever. I recall a short segment on the old relevant HNIC (what a god damn hot mess this Roger’s POS is) where they showed clips of Lidstrom never crossing his feet over in the D zone. He would always have his feet spread just wide enough he could switch to forward or backward movements just by slightly turning his feet/ankles.

    I’ve taught d specific skating for years as a hobby/favour to friends kids. Lidstrom was my model.

  82. Kmart99 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I laughed at that too.

    First thought was, “LT is prepared to argue all day? That sounds exhausting.”

    Second thought was. “LT is feeling his oats!”

    Last thought was, “LT is absolutely right about those contracts.”

    Last thought is “Why does LT hate Eberle?”

  83. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    If Zone adjusted CF% is right, then that means Schultz is 2nd best Dman on the team. It means Fayne is just slightly better than Ference. It means NN = MM. Those certainly are not the memes around here.

    CF% always needs context like you said.

    Schultz had the best partner (Dreamy Klef) the best F mates (usually RNH’s line) the easiest zone starts and 2nd/3rd pairing comp.

    In that situation you’d expect the best results.

    Here’s Ference’s break down last year:

    WIth Petry (694min)
    46% CF
    38.5% OZS

    With Schultz (154min)(2nd/3rd pairing comp)
    42.4% CF
    53.3% OZS

    With Fayne (83min) (1st pairing comp)
    44.5% CF
    28.9% OZS

    With Aulie (68min) (3rd pairing comp)
    39%CF
    52.4% OZS

    You can’t really play him anywhere anymore.

    Its a shame.

    901 NHL games, drafted in the 8th round.

    He should be proud of his career.

    Time waits for no man and damn few women.

  84. North of the Wall says:

    JAG-041,

    And to think those contracts are only 2mil more than the J.Shultz contract.

  85. blainer says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    If Zone adjusted CF% is right, then that means Schultz is 2nd best Dman on the team. It means Fayne is just slightly better than Ference. It means NN = MM. Those certainly are not the memes around here.

    CF% always needs context like you said.

    Schultz had the best partner (Dreamy Klef) the best F mates (usually RNH’s line) the easiest zone starts and 2nd/3rd pairing comp.

    In that situation you’d expect the best results.

    Here’s Ference’s break down last year:

    WIth Petry (694min)
    46% CF
    38.5% OZS

    With Schultz (154min)(2nd/3rd pairing comp)
    42.4% CF
    53.3% OZS

    With Fayne (83min) (1st pairing comp)
    44.5% CF
    28.9% OZS

    With Aulie (68min) (3rd pairing comp)
    39%CF
    52.4% OZS

    You can’t really play him anywhere anymore.

    Its a shame.

    901 NHL games, drafted in the 8th round.

    He should be proud of his career.

    Time waits for no man and damn few women.

    Love it when you back this up with stats.. Ference’s spot is way too valuable for GR or DN period. Truly believe DN will be a number 1 D by the 2016/2017 season. Chia needs to do the right thing and make this team compete for a playoff spot.. That gets a lot more possible without Ference.

    This Ference debate actually is very similar to what we went through with Gagner only Ference is that much older. Ference is too small and too old to compete at this level. It seems that just about everybody sees this except Ference himself.

    It will be a major mistake on Chia’s part if he does not see this.. If Ference is on this team next year Chia will regret this decision.

  86. commonfan14 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Numenius,

    if we’re talking waiting 2 years, Nurse is the man

    +1

  87. Rip Fan Winkle says:

    Yeti:
    On a serious note, unless there is a piece out there that would fit nicely into the medium term plans, I wouldn’t effect the buyout. We can live with Nikitin (and Purcell) for another year without taking the penalties that buyouts entail. Likewise, Ference is best bought out next year if its going to happen.

    In short, we need to pay this year for the sins of previous years. Hold the course, there’s better options this time next year. It’s frustrating because we’re getting close, but it’s the right thing to do.

    Taking a measured approach is certainly the right thing to do, but I can’t condone taking a year to let things go away unless there isn’t a better option. Team’s should always be striving to improve, every day. If a better player can be sensibly had, take him.

  88. AsiaOil says:

    There really is no convincing argument against buying out Ference this weekend – just isn’t – time to turn the page and move on. The cap hit in years 3/4 is negligible and easily manageable. If we buy out Ference and let the Pucell and Nikitin contracts expire – that is over $10 million in cap room. If Shultz doesn’t pan out – then that makes it $14 million we can use to sign Klef and add another top pair dman. Just do it Chia – it’s the right move – and the same correct decision you made on this player 2 years ago.

  89. Sugar Reijo says:

    AsiaOil:
    There really is no convincing argument against buying out Ference this weekend

    NMC?

  90. TheGreatMcMutato says:

    Does an NMC affect the buy-out?

    “A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a player, whether by Trade, Loan or Waiver claim. A no-move clause, however, may not restrict the Club’s buy-out and termination rights as set forth in this Agreement. Prior to exercising its Ordinary Course Buy-Out rights pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC hereof, the Club shall, in writing in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, provide the Player with the option of electing to be placed on Waivers. The Player will have twenty-four (24) hours from the time he receives such notice to accept or reject that option at his sole discretion, and shall so inform the Club in writing, in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, within such twenty-four (24) hour period. If the Player does not timely accept or reject that option, it will be deemed rejected.”

    Sounds like the player can block waivers but not the buyout itself?

  91. Oil2Oilers says:

    Are there any plausible takers for Nikitin on a 50% salary retain deal?

  92. wheatnoil says:

    AsiaOil:
    There really is no convincing argument against buying out Ference this weekend – just isn’t – time to turn the page and move on. The cap hit in years 3/4 is negligible and easily manageable. If we buy out Ference and let the Pucell and Nikitin contracts expire – that is over $10 million in cap room. If Shultz doesn’t pan out – then that makes it $14 million we can use to sign Klef and add another top pair dman. Just do it Chia – it’s the right move – and the same correct decision you made on this player 2 years ago.

    I only advocate buying out Ference if there are bringing in an Ehrhoff or a Franson or an upgrade of some sort with the salary. If those guys aren’t willing to sign for whatever reason and they’re not bringing in an upgrade, that would be reason for me to keep Ference and have him sit in the press box for a year, playing less than 30 games as a fill in #7, and then buy him out next year.

    The cap space from buyout is only useful if they use it.

  93. AsiaOil says:

    Exactly – plus waiting a year on the Ference contract costs us over $2 million in cap space this season but only saves us $1 million two years down the road. Not to mention the cost in terms of wins by having him on the ice. Will be very disappointed in Chia if he fails to make an obvious move like this – even if you nothing right right now – buying out Ference is addition by subtraction and opens up opportunities to add at training camp and in-season.

    Rip Fan Winkle: Taking a measured approach is certainly the right thing to do, but I can’t condone taking a year to let things go away unless there isn’t a better option. Team’s should always be striving to improve, every day. If a better player can be sensibly had, take him.

  94. AsiaOil says:

    wheatnoil,

    Opportunity cost WO. We can only buy out Ference this weekend – and if we don’t – then the cap space he eats up may limit our ability improve at TC and in-season. Having him sit in the pressbox eating popcorn just puts a set of $3.25 million handcuffs on Chia for the rest of the season.

  95. Lowetide says:

    The great thing about these discussions is that we’ll find out soon!! I don’t think the Oilers will buy out Ference and I do think the cap issue is real to them, but it is interesting to see how this board has locked and loaded over Ference in the last few days.

  96. blainer says:

    AsiaOil:
    wheatnoil,

    Opportunity cost WO. We can only buy out Ference this weekend – and if we don’t – then the cap space he eats up may limit our ability improve at TC and in-season. Having him sit in the pressbox eating popcorn just puts a set of $3.25 million handcuffs on Chia for the rest of the season.

    I have to say Asia oil your posts have been quite good. I have not disagreed with anything I have seen you post yet and everyone of your points have been spot on. I think LT may be correct and they won’t buy him out as I really believe that Chia is being tainted by the OBC. I cannot understand how he could handcuff this team going forward whether he signs someone or not. That is a lot of money to have available come September via trade or signing.

  97. Hammers says:

    I guess the bulk of us fans agree both Ference and Nikitin should go but in many ways I’m glad Chia is here to either make the changes or hopefully tell us why if he doesn’t. For me Ference would have gone even before Aulie . Even though his contract was up . We all new Aulie had his warts but he did try to give you 100 % and many times he had teammates giving less than there best . I always thought the smart players new when they didn’t contribute anymore at a level they expected from themselves . Gretz quit early by many opinions but was still better than some teammates but no longer performing as he had . Sometimes retiring gracefully from sport in particular is the smart thing to do . We wait and hopefully get what we want

  98. Eh Team says:

    AsiaOil: Exactly – plus waiting a year on the Ference contract costs us over $2 million in cap space this season but only saves us $1 million two years down the road. Not to mention the cost in terms of wins by having him on the ice. Will be very disappointed in Chia if he fails to make an obvious move like this – even if you nothing right right now – buying out Ference is addition by subtraction and opens up opportunities to add at training camp and in-season.

    The other issue with having Ference (and Nikitin) on the roster is that you are wasting playing time on them when it could go to the younger guys who will actually get better by playing. So buy out Ference, send Nikitin to the AHL and play Reinhart or Nurse or Davidson. They are all viable NHL players with a bit of experience.
    The position that the Oilers could really use help at is forward, particularly RW. Right now we have Eberle… Yak is still a 3rd line guy and Purcell is a stop gap. If we can add a quality RW to the mix that gives us some depth. Plus we need to push Gazdic and Klinkhammer off the roster (of have Klink as the 13/14 forward).

  99. Lowetide says:

    Eh Team: The other issue with having Ference (and Nikitin) on the roster is that you are wasting playing time on them when it could go to the younger guys who will actually get better by playing. So buy out Ference, send Nikitin to the AHL and play Reinhart or Nurse or Davidson. They are all viable NHL players with a bit of experience.
    The position that the Oilers could really use help at is forward, particularly RW.Right now we have Eberle… Yak is still a 3rd line guy and Purcell is a stop gap.If we can add a quality RW to the mix that gives us some depth.Plus we need to push Gazdic and Klinkhammer off the roster (of have Klink as the 13/14 forward).

    It’s important to remember though that defensemen get hurt, a lot. so when we’re making these lists and trying to squeeze Nurse or Reinhart in, let’s remember that 10 defensemen played 10 or more games this past season.

  100. Магия 10 says:

    blainer: I cannot understand how he could handcuff this team going forward

    adding some small handcuffs 3 and 4 years out vs. keeping some handcuffs years 1 and 2? it all depends on what you get when you push the handcuffs out.

  101. Eh Team says:

    Lowetide: It’s important to remember though that defensemen get hurt, a lot. so when we’re making these lists and trying to squeeze Nurse or Reinhart in, let’s remember that 10 defensemen played 10 or more games this past season.

    True, but you know these guys are going to start the year if healthy- Sekera, Fayne Klefblom, Schultz, Gryba and Reinhart. Then add Nurse, Davidson, Oesterle. Plus you can have Nikitin in the AHL. Plus Hunt and Musil.
    You know Reinhart is going to start in Edmonton, and Nurse needs only a few months of seasoning.

  102. blainer says:

    Магия 10: smaller handcuffs 3 and 4 years out vs. bigger handcuffs years 1 and 2? it all depends on what you get when you push the handcuffs out.

    I really have had enough of losing. I want us to ice the best team possible NOW. The small cap hit that the buyout costs us will be more than manageable.. lets give the sixth spot to someone that can help us win now.. at the same time gives us the opportunity to trade or sign for a quality D sometime before the start of the season..

  103. Lowetide says:

    Eh Team: True, but you know these guys are going to start the year if healthy-Sekera, FayneKlefblom, Schultz, Gryba and Reinhart.Then add Nurse, Davidson, Oesterle. Plus you can have Nikitin in the AHL.Plus Hunt and Musil.
    You know Reinhart is going to start in Edmonton, and Nurse needs only a few months of seasoning.

    The thing is, we don’t know. We always talk like we do, but Todd McLellan will evaluate differently. Martin Marincin looked like he was going to have a career in Edmonton until Dallas Eakins arrived in the city. Things change.

  104. SwedishPoster says:

    I don’t really like the tendency of giving Chia credit for all good moves and putting all bad moves at the feet of the old boys. Chia made it very clear that he had last say in all roster decisions, we can’t give him a pass on bad moves bad advisors or not. Getting stupid advice is only an issue if you’re dumb enough to listen.
    I see a lot of “if Chia don’t buy out Nikitin/Ference it must be because of the OBC/MacT”, “Chia trading Marty is because MacT convinced him”, “Schultz would never been on the team without MacTs influence on Chia”. No, all this did/will happen because Chia made the call, he wears the blame on the bad, he gets the cred for the good. That’s the beauty of being the bossman.

  105. Lowetide says:

    SwedishPoster:
    I don’t really like the tendency of giving Chia credit for all good moves and putting all bad moves at the feet of the old boys. Chia made it very clear that he had last say in all roster decisions, we can’t give him a pass on bad moves bad advisors or not. Getting stupid advice is only an issue if you’re dumb enough to listen.
    I see a lot of “if Chia don’t buy out Nikitin/Ference it must be because of the OBC/MacT”, “Chia trading Marty is because MacT convinced him”, “Schultz would never been on the team without MacTs influence on Chia”. No, all this did/will happen because Chia made the call, he wears the blame on the bad, he gets the cred for the good. That’s the beauty of being the bossman.

    Yep. Great point. Chiarelli traded Martin Marincin, that’s part of his record.

  106. jm363561 says:

    dustrock:
    Blue Bullet on Darnell Nurse comps:
    https://bluebulletreport.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/hello-nurse/
    Stop!!!
    I can only get so erect.
    (Quote) (Reply)

    Were it not for Cam Barker and Colton Teubert being 2 and 3 on the list (Da Nurse is 4, Pietrangelo is 1) this would be great news!,

  107. AsiaOil says:

    Agree that we will go 10 deep on defense in many years LT – but if history is any guide – Chia will be agressive in TC and in-season trying to improve the defense. If this is true – he needs cap room – and the best combination of cap benefits this year & next year with modest cap loss going forward is to buy-out Ference and let the Purcell/Nikitin/Schultz/Scrivens contracts expire or lost through trade/waivers.

    I’m pretty excited about what Chia might be able to do next summer with that kind of cap room and the young dmen developing another season. Another couple of key adds on RW and defense could make this a very scary team as soon as next season – but a lot depends on how the young dmen develop and on Talbot. That’s another reason to free up some cap room – a move in net may be required which is something none of us hopes is necessary. I’m not totally sold on Talbot – but still hope like hell he pans out – our season pretty much depends on it. So there are many reasons to free up cap space through a Ference buyout this weekend – and not all of them are obvious at the moment.

  108. rich says:

    blainer: I have to say Asia oil your posts have been quite good. I have not disagreed with anything I have seen you post yet and everyone of your points have been spot on. I think LT may be correct and they won’t buy him out as I really believe that Chia is being tainted by the OBC. I cannot understand how he could handcuff this team going forward whether he signs someone or not. That is a lot of money to have available come September via trade or signing.

    I think there is one other consideration on not buying out Ference or Nikitin and it’s something that Woodguy posted on Weds in one of the threads. Business related decision given the cap.

    Cap next year could very possibly go down due to the exchange rate (Can $ vs. US $). Players will be in a very uncomfortable spot once again w/the escalator. Even if they move it forward, cap may barely rise.

    If that scenario plays out, do you really want to have the buyout costs impact your cap for 1 to 4 seasons when you know something is going to shake lose – either via free agency or a trade because of this?

    Especially given what’s out there right now really is not the cream of the crop in what wasn’t a strong FA class.

    Given that, it’s very possible the Oilers take NN and Ference into the season with the potential to sell at the deadline (when their value is highest) or watch NN’s hit (and Purcell’s) hit go at the end of the year to free up money you need for next year – and beyond.

    You then “convince” Ference it’s in his best interests to retire and you take advantage of the teams in cap hell next summer.

    Now watch of course that someone is bought out…

  109. wheatnoil says:

    AsiaOil,

    Fair point. I just think that it’s a different decision depending on whether you have a bird in hand or you’re waiting for one to show itself. It may pay off, but if something doesn’t present itself you’re giving away a million dollar cap hit for two years for no reason. It may turn out not to be a big deal but it could also cost the Oilers their version of Saad.

    I’m fairly pro-Ference buyout, but I do think it’s a tougher call than you’re letting on if they don’t have that bird in hand.

  110. JD¡™ David O'Connor's Reel says:

    Sugar Reijo: NMC?

    Unconditional waivers for the purpose of a buyout can’t be negated by NMC. Technically, the player is not moving – except for ‘moving on’ in his career.

  111. speeds says:

    rich: I think there is one other consideration on not buying out Ference or Nikitin and it’s something that Woodguy posted on Weds in one of the threads.Business related decision given the cap.

    Cap next year could very possibly go down due to the exchange rate (Can $ vs. US $).Players will be in a very uncomfortable spot once again w/the escalator.Even if they move it forward, cap may barely rise.

    If that scenario plays out, do you really want to have the buyout costs impact your cap for 1 to 4 seasons when you know something is going to shake lose – either via free agency or a trade because of this?

    I think that’s an interesting train of thought, but not sure how that fits with the Gordon for Korpikoski trade.

  112. AsiaOil says:

    wheatnoil,

    I see your point – but unfortunately the bird in hand is pooping all over your palm 🙂

    Like I just replied to LT – there are many reasons to free up cap space now which are not obvious – opportunities arise and problems happen. I can’t see how $1 million will cost us anything significant – it’s only 1.5% of the cap – and a very we could simply carry only 22 players on the NHL roster if things got that bad. So I don’t see it handcuffing us in any real way.

  113. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Yep. Great point. Chiarelli traded Martin Marincin, that’s part of his record.

    I’m hoping Marincin becomes a bona fide #4 defenseman this year so that Chiarelli can be hit in the face with clear evidence that he needs to shoot, pluck, and roast whatever little bird is whispering those sweet nothings in his ear.

  114. Numenius says:

    Oil2Oilers:
    Are there any plausible takers for Nikitin on a 50% salary retaindeal?

    A Leafs blogger, apparently, thinks it might not be a bad idea.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mike-Augello/Would-The-Maple-Leafs-Take-On-Nikita-Nikitin/120/70037

    That’d be the ideal situation imo.

  115. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    The great thing about these discussions is that we’ll find out soon!! I don’t think the Oilers will buy out Ference and I do think the cap issue is real to them, but it is interesting to see how this board has locked and loaded over Ference in the last few days.

    Just imagine if they had traded Ference last season when there were rumours of interest from other teams.

  116. B S says:

    RexLibris: Just imagine if they had traded Ference last season when there were rumours of interest from other teams.

    Those rumours only seemed to come from Edmonton MSM if I recall, and no-one ever said how much salary had to be retained (none of the contenders had the cap room to assume his salary in full). $2.5 mil cap hit for a player not on the roster isn’t worth opening up that roster spot, baring in mind this was before the lottery etc. so the assumed course was hold steady and develop…again.

  117. blainer says:

    rich: I think there is one other consideration on not buying out Ference or Nikitin and it’s something that Woodguy posted on Weds in one of the threads.Business related decision given the cap.

    Cap next year could very possibly go down due to the exchange rate (Can $ vs. US $).Players will be in a very uncomfortable spot once again w/the escalator.Even if they move it forward, cap may barely rise.

    If that scenario plays out, do you really want to have the buyout costs impact your cap for 1 to 4 seasons when you know something is going to shake lose – either via free agency or a trade because of this?

    Especially given what’s out there right now really is not the cream of the crop in what wasn’t a strong FA class.

    Given that, it’s very possible the Oilers take NN and Ference into the season with the potential to sell at the deadline (when their value is highest) or watch NN’s hit (and Purcell’s) hit go at the end of the year to free up money you need for next year – and beyond.

    You then “convince” Ference it’s in his best interests to retire and you take advantage of the teams in cap hell next summer.

    Now watch of course that someone is bought out…

    Ya we had this conversation a few threads ago about the dollar and I do agree the cap may well even go down. I still think though $1M is not gonna hurt us too much even with a $68M cap. Again I am sooo done with losing and want to put the best team on the ice and that does not include Ference. If they keep him and scratch him for 65 games I guess I could live with that if they play him in the softs for 4 mins a game for the odd time he does dress but that would mean a change in the captaincy… that might be just enough for him to retire..

  118. Oil2Oilers says:

    Numenius: A Leafs blogger, apparently, thinks it might not be a bad idea.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mike-Augello/Would-The-Maple-Leafs-Take-On-Nikita-Nikitin/120/70037

    That’d be the ideal situation imo.

    I hope he gets hire by Leafs management. Or is at least read by the ex-bloggers already there.

  119. jake70 says:

    Lowetide:
    The great thing about these discussions is that we’ll find out soon!! I don’t think the Oilers will buy out Ference and I do think the cap issue is real to them, but it is interesting to see how this board has locked and loaded over Ference in the last few days.

    Yeah Ference now in the cross-hairs. Takes the heat of Schultz for a minute or 2. 🙂

  120. pts2pndr says:

    dustrock,

    Ference was Eakins lap dog and called out hall in public! The correct answer is pull the C sit him and see if his Professional pride has him request a trade! It is ALWAYS team first! There have to be some deal breakers and a standard set immediately,! What goes on in the room stays in the room!

  121. commonfan14 says:

    It’s entirely possible that there’s a really good reason for the handling of Marincin that hasn’t been made public.

    Always worth remembering that there can be more going on with players and groups than we can see on the ice or in the stats.

  122. pts2pndr says:

    Numenius,

    I agree he has all the requisite qualities ie leadership , respect of his team mates etc. He would be my choice until the manta is passed to one of the younger guys!

  123. speeds says:

    Interesting quote from Wayne Gretzky in this article:

    http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/795984

    “I don’t know what to expect quite honestly. The best players in the game only managed 87 points to win the scoring title last year because the game is so defensive right now.

    “Is Connor going to win the scoring title? That’s probably asking too much, but he’s got the ability to compete.”

    My reading of that is that he is taking about the upcoming season, do others agree with that (might need to read the full article for context)?

  124. pts2pndr says:

    Lowetide,

    The captain was injured when the team improved after Eakins departed. There are a number of players on the farm that could fill in for Ference. Addition by subtraction. For those that think I am overly hard on Ference he is experienced enough to know when to say nothing! I am not saying he is a bad person just not captain material.

  125. spoiler says:

    speeds:
    Interesting quote from Wayne Gretzky in this article:

    http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/795984

    “I don’t know what to expect quite honestly. The best players in the game only managed 87 points to win the scoring title last year because the game is so defensive right now.

    “Is Connor going to win the scoring title? That’s probably asking too much, but he’s got the ability to compete.”

    My reading of that is that he is taking about the upcoming season, do others agree with that (might need to read the full article for context)?

    Here’s the original context, Mike, I think it answers your question:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Gretzky+says+McDavid+handle+step+from/11223059/story.html

  126. spoiler says:

    This guy rarely writes about Canada’s economy, but when he does, people should pay attention:

    http://www.acting-man.com/?p=38576&cpage=1#comment-8425

    Love his work. So much so, I’m leery about sharing it, lol.

    At any rate, it is quite evident that a devaluation of the dollar is the Official Plan. Central Banks like to pick winners and losers… the losers will be savers, pensioners… and the NHL (amongst others).

    Remember to thank your bank the next time you’re there for the two paycuts you’ve received this year. So far.

    Sorry this is OT, but it’s the end of a thread on a Friday afternoon.

  127. hunter1909 says:

    pts2pndr:
    Lowetide,

    The captain wasinjured when the team improved after Eakins departed.There are a number of players on the farm that could fill in for Ference.Addition by subtraction.For those that think I am overly hard on Ference he is experienced enough to know when tosay nothing!I am not saying he is a bad person just not captain material.

    It’s possible Ference got 100% caught up in the Lowe+MacT+Howson+OBC mindset via Eakin’s foolish decision to make a newbie captain suddenly confronted/accepted in an extreme toxic environment which everyone but the most ardent Lowe apologists( what maybe 1% of the fan base) saw, where backbiting and gossip are normal everyday things.

    Ference doesn’t appear particularly bright, which possibly explains things in that Lord of the Flies scenario.

  128. hunter1909 says:

    spoiler: This guy rarely writes about Canada’s economy, but when he does, people should pay attention:

    I only speed read it, but saw: A real estate bubble as unsustainable as Tulip Trading. Good luck with that: particularly anyone crazy enough to sign their home over to the bank for a partial lump sum payment.

  129. Bootstrap Effexor says:

    G Money:
    That’s what we rail on MacT for – everyone it seems but him recognized that Ference might do OK in a 4D/5D type of role, but he got term and a $ figure, and then ice time, that is too high for his age and capability.

    It wasn’t denominated that way. With the roster available, somebody had to be thrown to the wolves.

    In the face of the commonly-accepted-meme that entry-level players are last-to-breastbud schoolgirl fragile, it’s necessarily going to be the veterans fed to the sharks.

    It was a roster error, not a player error.

  130. hunter1909 says:

    Bootstrap Effexor: It was a roster error, not a player error.

    Ference is forever associated with Dallas Eakins. There’s no getting away from it. He’s also a declining player who’s overpaid and over entitled attitude helps stink up the player’s experience of Oilers hockey.

  131. Derek says:

    jm363561:
    dustrock:
    Blue Bullet on Darnell Nurse comps:
    https://bluebulletreport.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/hello-nurse/
    Stop!!!
    I can only get so erect. (Quote)(Reply)

    Were it not for Cam Barker and Colton Teubert being 2 and 3 on the list (Da Nurse is 4, Pietrangelo is 1) this would be great news!,

    I’d be alot more concerned about this if the issues for those two (Barker – GAF and footspeed, Teubert – footspeed) weren’t strengths for Nurse.

    commonfan14:
    It’s entirely possible that there’s a really good reason for the handling of Marincin/Hejda/Gilbert/Souray/Petry that hasn’t been made public.

    Always worth remembering that there can be more going on with players and groups than we can see on the ice or in the stats.

    Hmm

  132. jake70 says:

    Hunter has a custom keyboard, one the keys: Lowe+MacT lol.

  133. Hammers says:

    I’m hearing to expect at the best .75 to .70 $ this year . We are already creeping down so you can damn near bank on it. That could mean the expansion goes through and team numbers drop to 22 not 23 . That immediately means only 16 new players not 46 . If the dollar drops does it mean the cap drops as well or maybe at best expect the cap to stay about the same for another couple of years . I hope all these G.M. Get the picture . This upcoming time is going to be been there done that .there can be no more overpaying free agents and my gut says that’s why players seem to be signing sensible contracts . Chia should start looking ahead to next year as related to what he pays players . 4 to 6 of this years team will be gone either sooner or later with Ference , Scrivens , Purcell , Nikitin plus the other potentials ,there always is .

  134. jake70 says:

    spoiler:
    This guy rarely writes about Canada’s economy, but when he does, people should pay attention:

    http://www.acting-man.com/?p=38576&cpage=1#comment-8425

    Love his work. So much so, I’m leery about sharing it, lol.

    At any rate, it is quite evident that a devaluation of the dollar is the Official Plan. Central Banks like to pick winners and losers… the losers will be savers, pensioners… and the NHL (amongst others).

    Remember to thank your bank the next time you’re there for the two paycuts you’ve received this year. So far.

    Sorry this is OT, but it’s the end of a thread on a Friday afternoon.

    Interesting thanks for the link. I watched that 2013 documentary” Money for Nothing – Inside the Federal Reserve” a couple of times recently – some of the same items covered.

  135. JD¡™ David O'Connor's Reel says:

    spoiler: Sorry this is OT

    Always have time for OT, especially when bubblenomics and fiats are concerned.

    Curious – what’s your opinion of the COMER thing?

  136. spoiler says:

    JD¡™ David O’Connor’s Reel: Curious – what’s your opinion of the COMER thing?

    I don’t feel I have enough information to comment with any certainty. I haven’t read the Act. But the whole thing sounds lefty and something socreds would do.

    Edit: Yup, just looked it up. Related to CAP the Socred Party.

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