OKC FORENSIC FILES

Eric Rodgers has been a guest on the Lowdown many times over the years, and his insight about Oilers prospects in OKC has been invaluable. Along with Neal Livingston and Patricia Teter (plus Jim Byers in the early years), we were able to put together thumbnail sketches of youngsters and their progress.

Rodgers’ work extends to the very interesting work of estimating ice-times based on who is on the ice when goals occur. Using goal tallies as a proxy for icetime goes back some time, with the brilliant Iain Fyffe leading the work I’ve found online for 15 years and more. Eric was kind enough to pass along his estimates for this past season and I thank him for it. I’ll be speaking to him next week on the subject and will update when we suss out date and time. Now. The good stuff! rodgers forwards

  • Anton Lander: No surprise, we’ve known he is overqualified for the AHL for some time. Edmonton’s Euros didn’t do well in Oklahoma City, but I honestly think it had nothing to do with the Euro’s or Oklahoma City.
  • Steve Pinizzotto: The most successful of the older players who were not prospects. It’s interesting to see the large number of at-bats this group eats up.
  • Andrew Miller: He’s an older player but definitely a prospect. I think the development minutes devoted to him have real value and we could see him in the NHL next year.
  • Iiro Pakarinen: He had an outstanding run in OKC, these numbers are fantastic. Pakarinen isn’t regarded as a rookie by the AHL but this was his first season in North America and he performed very well. I like his future. He scored 13 even-strength goals in 39 games. Nice.
  • Ryan Hamilton: Veteran winger to mentor the youth, he played more in the NHL last season than expected. Foot speed is the issue, we’ll see if he gets playing time in 2015-16 at the NHL level.
  • Tyler Pitlick: This is probably his high water mark as an AHL scorer. Pitlick’s offense didn’t come with him to pro hockey but he’s probably going to get a chance to make the NHL (and stay healthy) again.
  • Matt Ford: One of several veterans who serve as replacements for prospects who are either in the NHL, injured, or underperforming. Edmonton has a few of these each season, making sure the kids don’t get overwhelmed. OR they rob kids of at-bats, depending on your point of view. There’s probably a reasonable explanation in the middle there, too.
  • Josh Winquist: The young man doesn’t have an NHL contract but he was the highest performing 20-year old on the Barons last season. I hope he spikes this coming year and is rewarded with an NHL deal. He’s better than several signed guys, no question.
  • Jason Williams: Veteran was brought in to mentor the yutes and based on Rodgers’ estimated he took a LOT of at-bats away from the kids while doing so (over 1600 minutes estimated TOI).
  • Curtis Hamilton: He enjoyed his best pro season but there’s not enough here to merit another contract (and the Oilers clearly agree). I hope he catches on somewhere and has a career.
  • Bogdan Yakimov: We know (courtesy Eric) Yakimov didn’t get the big minutes until Lander hit big lights, big city. One hopes he’ll get the TOI spike in year two.
  • C.J. Stretch: Seems to get a little playing time every year, he is a little shy offensively and the club could probably afford to give these minutes to a real prospect.
  • Kale Kessy: He scores pretty well for his player-type, definitely a prospect to watch next season. Remember, enforcers aren’t expected to post substantial offense (don’t blame me, that’s just a fact).
  • Kellen and Connor Jones: Good pro’s, fabulous penalty killers. I hope they have long pro careers.
  • Jujhar Khaira: The offense is a little better than I imagined, as he simply didn’t play that much a year ago. Edmonton needs to commit to these players or not bother signing them. In the case of Khaira, I’d like to see him get a full season with significant minutes.
  • Mitch Moroz: Like Khaira, we really didn’t get to see a full season of at-bats. Moroz had some health issues before training camp and that may have derailed his year. I’m hopeful we see a stronger year in 2015-16. Rodgers numbers suggest he was short of 600 minutes in 66 games.
  • Travis Ewanyk: Off to Ottawa, we pegged Mr. Ewanyk as a player who would find scoring at the pro level a real challenge. I’ll be very interested to see what happens in Ottawa, they have developed some insane specialty players like Erik Condra.

In reading Supernova’s work, it’s interesting to see how many NHL teams employ significant numbers of AHL veterans to provide cover for the kids, while mentoring them. In Edmonton’s case, the forward group seems to have many more of this player type than the blue. If we count Ryan Hamilton, Jason Williams, Matt Ford and Steve Pinizzotto as veterans, that’s 209 man games over the year—and these are feature roles. The AHL schedule is 76 games, so OKC basically employed an ENTIRE skill line of AHL veterans (76 times 3=228 games) in 2015-16. I think that qualifies as excessive.

Using Rodgers’ numbers (I have not published the TOI totals out of respect for Eric, when he publishes I will link) the TOI estimates are even more stark. Williams, Ford, Hamilton and Pinizzotto total an estimated 4,385 minutes based on Rodgers ciphering. If we multiply the three forward positions by 60 minutes (OT not included here, no idea how to estimate) and 76 games, we get 13,680 minutes of playing time. The veterans listed above occupy 32% of the available ice time, creating an even more stark viewpoint on the veteran/prospect issue. Even if we add 300 more minutes for OT, it’s still over 30%. And of course these are prime minutes, very dire.

rodgers defense

  • Oscar Klefbom: It’s uncertain how much of Klefbom’s actual value will come from offense, but in a nine-game run he certainly gave us an indication it’ll be more than zero. Such a mobile young player, great ability to close gaps in a heartbeat.
  • Brad Hunt: He played a pile of minutes (1,600 based on Rodgers’ estimates) and delivered good offense. The Oilers have other options for the PP (Oesterle, Laleggia) so that might be a veteran/prospect TOI issue for the coming year.
  • Jordan Oesterle: I liked his quick look-see in the NHL and he has some nice offensive potential. He’s very much in the conversation in terms of ‘two-way’ ability. I hope he gets plenty of icetime in all three disciplines for the coming year.
  • Dillon Simpson: Rodgers estimates he played over 1,100 minutes and that’s very encouraging. I know that EV GF-GA ON has a lot of issues (team stat for sure) but it’s also encouraging to see him in the black. Based on TOI per game, he was ahead of David Musil, Martin Gernat and a few others. A nicer season than I thought based on this look behind the scenes.
  • Martin Marincin: The Oilers hermetically sealed him off over (I think) conditioning and he could never get himself out of the doghouse. It’s best for everyone that he moved along but once again an opportunity missed with a talented European.
  • C.J. Ludwig: He didn’t show a tremendous amount but there’s enough here for us to include him in the discussion. I absolutely love the Oilers policy of signing college free agents both inside (Oesterle) and outside (Ludwig) the top 50. It’s a great idea, although imo the Oilers missed an opportunity with Winquist and they are somewhat vulnerable because of it.
  • David Musil: He played less than Simpson based on the estimates, that’s something to watch for moving forward (Simpson was a rookie pro and 2014-15 was Musil’s second AHL season). He’s a shutdown type who will no doubt spend much of his career in his own zone (PK, etc) but he’s tracking like an NHL career is possible.
  • Martin Gernat: A tough season for Gernat, as he was caught up in the conditioning sweep that sewered Marincin’s Oiler career. I imagine he’ll head back to Europe in the next 12 months and be a productive player in a good league. Too bad, he showed great progress leading up to this year, including a solid AHL rookie year in 2013-14.
  • Brandon Davidson: Second in TOI/game estimate behind Brad Hunt and his +10 GF-GA ON number at evens is very heartening. I don’t know if he plays 500 NHL games but there’s a window of opportunity here where Davidson might get an NHL chance. His points-per-60 is low but remember we’re not breaking this down to EV/PP/PK. In his NHL games, I’ve been impressed with mobility and strength—this man’s been working.

I’m counting only Brad Hunt as a veteran and the rest are prospects (Ludwig was 24 last season). Hunt’s 62 games represent 13.5% of the overall blue games available (veteran forwards occupied 22.9% of the forward wall). His estimated 1,600 minutes represents 17.5% (sans OT minutes) of the overall total, compared to 32% of the forward inventory.

The Oilers have an issue with veteran forwards robbing prospects of playing time at the AHL level. We knew this, Eric Rodgers information brings the issue into sharper view. I thank him for it.

Note: I will publish TOI estimates at a later time, and will do a post for ‘prospects’ like Platzer, Laleggia and others in the next few days.

Second Note: Brock Otten’s Oilers look is up at OHL Prospects.

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41 Responses to "OKC FORENSIC FILES"

  1. Lowetide says:

    Today on the Lowdown, 10 this morning TSN1260. Fluid show, Steve Lansky and Antony Bent for hour one and I’m trying to get Otten on in hour two plus Bruce McCurdy hopefully to talk about the blue moon. Talk soon!

  2. John Chambers says:

    I just DB’d Ryan Hamilton and can’t believe he played 16 NHL games last year. I think he even got time on a feature line.

    There are definitely patches of last season where I tuned out for a good chunk of time or that I have selectively forgotten.

  3. Jordan says:

    Oscar Klefbom: It’s uncertain how much of Klefbom’s actual value will come from offense, but in a nine-game run he certainly gave us an indication it’ll be less than zero.

    Damn it. I’m trying to make a joke about you saying that KBom’s offensive contributions to the team will be of negative value, but I’ll be damned if I can’t find a funny way to say it.

    Go… Peanut Gallery! I choose you!

  4. Lowetide says:

    Jordan:
    Oscar Klefbom: It’s uncertain how much of Klefbom’s actual value will come from offense, but in a nine-game run he certainly gave us an indication it’ll be less than zero.

    Damn it.I’m trying to make a joke about you saying that KBom’s offensive contributions to the team will be of negative value, but I’ll be damned if I can’t find a funny way to say it.

    Go… Peanut Gallery!I choose you!

    I actually changed it because it worked as an obscure Elvis Costello reference but in actual fact was misleading.

  5. Woodguy says:

    The Oilers have an issue with veteran forwards robbing prospects of playing time at the AHL level. We knew this, Eric Rodgers information brings the issue into sharper view. I thank him for it.

    *Phil Hartman doing Ed McMahon voice*

    You are correct sir.

  6. Jordan says:

    Lowetide: I actually changed it because it worked as an obscure Elvis Costello reference but in actual fact was misleading.

    Crap. Couldn’t make a joke, and ruined an obscure reference?

    Sigh. If only there was a long weekend with great weather coming up soon to distract me from my shame… =D

  7. dustrock says:

    John Chambers: I just DB’d Ryan Hamilton and can’t believe he played 16 NHL games last year. I think he even got time on a feature line.There are definitely patches of last season where I tuned out for a good chunk of time or that I have selectively forgotten.

    I forgot Ryan Hamilton even existed, TBH. No offence to guys like Hamilton, Acton, Pinnizotto, I love the fact that they were able to hustle themselves up to the bigs for a cup of coffee, but it’s got to stop.

    The one thing I will say, and LT, this kind of touches on the “middle ground” you mention, between vets mentoring the young prospects and wasting their minutes – I still think there was value in having the Barons be a successful AHL team.

    I think that helped Nelson and Fleming, and I’m sure it helped Klefbom, Lander, and Martin (Single Tear) Marincin. We even got Nurse and Chase into some AHL playoff games last year. That’s a valuable thing.

  8. leadfarmer says:

    Or the Oilers have a problem of too many poor forward draft choices that they had to fill the gaps with veterans while the d were good enough to not have to do that.

  9. cc says:

    The Oiler’s have a top 9 forward problem this year with Hamilton & Ford signed. If Drai gets assigned to the AHL they have the following players they need to spend development cycles with. Drai, Yakimov, Slepyshev, Pakarinen, Miller, Khaira, Chase, Platzer, Moroz & Kessy (I’m probably missing some) that’s 10 prospects PLUS Hamilton & Ford and the AHL contracts. In the AHL really you can only develop so many propsects. They need time contributing in the top nine. I think that it might be in the best interest to reassign a whole line to the ECHL.

    AHL Lineup:
    Slepy-Drai-Miller
    Hamilton-Yakimov-Pakarinen
    Kessy-Khaira-Ford

    ECHL Lineup:
    Moroz-Platzer-Chase (Play the crap out of them. Let them develop chemistry. Play special teams.) It would work a whole lot better than having them sit on the 4th line in the AHL.

  10. Hammers says:

    Time to decide on Davidson as a 6-7 D . I would prefer him to Reinhart ,Ference maybe even Nikitin . They have to send some D down no matter what it does to there AHL team .

  11. Hammers says:

    Hammers:
    Time to decide on Davidson as a 6-7 D . I would prefer him to Reinhart ,Ference maybe even Nikitin . They have to send some D down no matter what it does to there AHL team .

    Actually a trade or two would be better but probably impossible

  12. Woodguy says:

    leadfarmer:
    Or the Oilers have a problem of too many poor forward draft choices that they had to fill the gaps with veterans while the d were good enough to not have to do that.

    Doesn’t matter.

    The team has invested a ELC on all of these players.

    Not playing them is idiocy.

  13. supernova says:

    as I have said on my series in the comment section often.

    I wouldn’t have re-signed

    R Hamilton
    M Ford
    B Hunt
    J Williams

    I was ok with

    A Miller

    The difference between them is actual NHL upside.

    The issue isn’t coaching its player procurement. The system should be full of 19-23 year olds competing against each other for minutes. I don’t care how they arrive 1st rounders or 7th rounders, UDFA or AHL/ECHL deal or other teams cast offs.

    The Oilers have had a issue developing late round draft picks, but they are putting these young men up against more mature and experienced players in a league they are familiar with.

    The other side to player procurement why even bother signing a R Hamilton type to a NHL deal before the season ends?

    This type of player is available every TC or in the season on waivers.

    Totally non sensical IMO.

    The veteran influence I get but Hockey isn’t that large or a world you should have a good idea on who is a good influence or not on dozens of these guys.

  14. cc says:

    Hammers:
    Time to decide on Davidson as a 6-7 D . I would prefer him to Reinhart ,Ference maybe even Nikitin . They have to send some D down no matter what it does to there AHL team .

    I don’t think they have to decide this year. Davidson should easily go through waivers unclaimed. I think, this year is a competition between Musil and Davidson for next year’s 6-7 D. With expansion also on the horizon I wouldn’t be surprised if one of those players gets picked if there’s an expansion draft next year.

  15. supernova says:

    leadfarmer:
    Or the Oilers have a problem of too many poor forward draft choices that they had to fill the gaps with veterans while the d were good enough to not have to do that.

    leadfarmer,

    Do you honestly expect a 20 year old Moroz to beat out a 29 year old Hanilton for the same minutes?
    Also one who has played for the same coach and is on a sizeable AHL deal.

    You invested scouting recources and drafted the player why wouldn’t you want to play them in a position they could succeed in, overdrafted or not?

    Gernat losing minutes to other young players is different than most of the cases with the forwards

  16. slopitch says:

    Brock Otten’s write up on Darnell nurse is worth a read. He does echo many of the opinions here that he may be ready to go right into the NHL. I still say 10-40 AHL games is best.

    I’m starting to think Iro P steals someone’s lunch and wins an NHL job.

    Veteran ice time for the forwards is less important for the forwards the the defense since there are far fewer jobs. It’s still in the best interest of the team to redistribute the ice time though.

  17. rickithebear says:

    John Chambers: I just DB’d Ryan Hamilton and can’t believe he played 16 NHL games last year. I think he even got time on a feature line.

    Purcell 82gm -33
    41gm -9 w/ Nelson
    Yakupov 81gm -35
    41gm -16 w/ Nelson
    Fayne 74gm -21
    Ference 70gm -17
    KLefbom 60gm -21
    Petry 59gm -25 gone
    Roy 46gm -13 gone
    Perron 38gm -17 gone
    Lander 37gm -10
    ——————————————–
    Gazdic 40gm -4 too many games
    Draisatl 37gm -17
    Fraser 36gm -11 gone
    Arco 36gm -7 gone
    Jeonsuu 20gm -8 gone
    Pitlick 17gm -3
    Pakarinen 17gm -4
    R. Hamilton 16gm -8
    Davidson 12gm -5
    Hunt 11gm -6
    Miller 9gm -2
    Oesterle 6gm -4
    Musil 4gm -2
    Acton 2gm -2
    Nurse 2gm -2

    77gm -22 of fulll line largely AHL calibre Forwards.

    Purcel-XXX-Yak 81gm of -34 performed worse than the AHL players.

    Yakupov is a def burden no player can carry!

  18. Pretendergast says:

    I absolutely agree about giving the at bats to the kids.

    However, id also argue vets like williams can teach the kids how to be pros.

    I remember seeing nazem kadri struggles in the ahl and he said it was because nobody taught him how to take care of himself.

  19. dessert1111 says:

    In years past I think the AHL squad has employed too many non-prospect vets, but this year it’s hard to get too upset about it.

    Out of players 25 or older on AHL-only deals, there are only Matt Ford and Nick Pageau, the latter being more of an ECHL-AHL tweener type, who shouldn’t take development type away.

    Out of non-prospects on the 50 man, I only really count Ryan Hamilton, since I think Hunt and Miller could both fill a role on the Oilers this year if things break right for them. I can’t see Hamilton being a net-plus on the Oilers, so I consider him solely as a vet presence.

    So there are just the two forwards, Hamilton and Ford, who could be taking prime minutes away from the young guys without having any possible use on the big club.

    I think it would’ve been better to just have Ford for this role – make him captain even – and have him slide up and down the lineup, which I believe he does. I just think the Hamilton signing was a mistake. I also have to think it wouldn’t have gotten done had Chia already been in charge.

    So in years past, a legit concern, this year, a very mild one, IMO.

  20. Hammers says:

    cc: I don’t think they have to decide this year.Davidson should easily go through waivers unclaimed.I think, this year is a competition between Musil and Davidson for next year’s 6-7 D.With expansion also on the horizon I wouldn’t be surprised if one of those players gets picked if there’s an expansion draft next year.

    Agree that one will get picked up but for me probably Musil if not higher up the chain .

  21. oliveoilers says:

    John Chambers: I just DB’d Ryan Hamilton

    *snigger*

  22. ericrsports says:

    Woodguy:
    The Oilers have an issue with veteran forwards robbing prospects of playing time at the AHL level. We knew this, Eric Rodgers information brings the issue into sharper view. I thank him for it.

    *Phil Hartman doing Ed McMahon voice*

    You are correct sir.

    The biggest difference, was Ford was used to help the prospects on any line. He moved up and down the lineup many times through the season. Someone like Williams though, was purely used for scoring and easily took a spot that a prospect could have filled.

  23. Henry says:

    Pakarinen’s 2:1 ratio of GF:GA at evens is very impressive. His chippiness adds to his value. The Oilers have to determine if this fellow can be a value contract to add at the NHL level.

  24. Woodguy says:

    ericrsports: The biggest difference, was Ford was used to help the prospects on any line. He moved up and down the lineup many times through the season. Someone like Williams though, was purely used for scoring and easily took a spot that a prospect could have filled.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    I agree with having some vets to help the kids learn pro hockey.

    Having vets take the majority 5v5 minutes, 1PP and 1PK to the exclusion of players on ELC’s is self defeating in terms of developing talent.

    No one learns shit from the bench.

    The AHL has as many teams as is does because its a developmental league.

    If the player is truly too awful for a regular shift, then put them in the ECHL and give them the most minutes there.

  25. Bank Shot says:

    supernova: leadfarmer,

    Do you honestly expect a 20 year old Moroz to beat out a 29 year old Hanilton for the same minutes?
    Also one who has played for the same coach and is on a sizeable AHL deal.

    You invested scouting recources and drafted the player why wouldn’t you want to play them in a position they could succeed in, overdrafted or not?

    Gernat losing minutes to other young players is different than most of the cases with the forwards

    Moroz got his head kicked in to the tune of -15 in his limited minutes.

    Giving him more minutes wouldn’t have put him in a position to succeed.

    There might be an argument that he may have been better served playing big minutes in the ECHL.

    I don’t see how letting him get clobbered all season in a role that is over is head is considered good development.

    It never worked for Gagner at the NHL level.

    If any of the forward prospects in the AHL were worth a damn I believe that the Oilers would have moved out vets to get them more playing time. Just like they made sure there was space for their defensive prospects.

  26. GCW_69 says:

    “Brad Hunt: He played a pile of minutes (1,600 based on Rodgers’ estimates) and delivered good offense. The Oilers have other options for the PP (Oesterle, Laleggia) so that WILL be a veteran/prospect TOI issue for the coming year.”

    Fixed that for you.

  27. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    I think the thing about Veterans on the team is that, ideally, they would be there for mentorship. To me that means you probably don’t want to run an all veteran line, and you probably don’t want to run any of them for 20 minutes.

    If they play 12-15 minutes a night, even if they’re key minutes, that’s still helpful. Jason Williams could be 1C in terms of matching up with difficult competition and carrying the difficult load, he just doesn’t need to do it 20 minutes a night. That extra 5 minutes a night for Bogdan/Khaira could be super helpful over the course of the year.

  28. GCW_69 says:

    I like Williams in a top six role playing wing and mentoring the offensively gifted forwards, and I don’t mind Hamilton rotating in as a third/fourth line mentor the two way and grinder types. Its when Hamilton is playing top six minutes that it doesn’t look great.

    AN OKC lineup of:

    Slepyshev – Draistatl – Williams
    Pakarinen – Yakimov – Miller
    Moroz/Kessey – Platzer – Chase
    Hamilton – Khaira – Winquist

    There is enough experience (Shepyshev, Parkininen, Miller, Williams) and skill in that line up that outside of Williams, the down side of their career character guys like Hamilton and Ford should not be getting big minutes.

  29. supernova says:

    Bank Shot: Moroz got his head kicked in to the tune of -15 in his limited minutes.

    Giving him more minutes wouldn’t have put him in a position to succeed.

    There might be an argument that he may have been better served playing big minutes in the ECHL.

    I don’t see how letting him get clobbered all season in a role that is over is head is considered good development.

    It never worked for Gagner at the NHL level.

    If any of the forward prospects in the AHL were worth a damn I believe that the Oilers would have moved out vets to get them more playing time. Just like they made sure there was space for their defensive prospects.

    Bank Shot,

    BS

    You are missing my point.

    I also think head kicked in isn’t exactly what happened.
    You play Moroz up even a line with better linemates rather than in a 4th line AHL role.

    Later in the season they did do this and that is when production started happening.

    My point is you spent an asset of high 2nd rounder where will he best succeed?
    I am fine with playing him in the ECHL but the fact is he needs to play. 6-8 minutes a night for the majority of the season is hardly development.

  30. supernova says:

    GCW_69:
    I like Williams in a top six role playing wing and mentoring the offensively gifted forwards, and I don’t mind Hamilton rotating in as a third/fourth line mentor the two way and grinder types.Its when Hamilton is playing top six minutes that it doesn’t look great.

    AN OKC lineup of:

    Slepyshev – Draistatl – Williams
    Pakarinen – Yakimov – Miller
    Moroz/Kessey – Platzer – Chase
    Hamilton – Khaira – Winquist

    There is enough experience (Shepyshev, Parkininen, Miller, Williams) and skill in that line up that outside of Williams, the down side of their career character guys like Hamilton and Ford should not be getting big minutes.

    GCW_69,

    I don’t mind the concept but he coaches Job is to also win.

    If Hamilton is on the team it is likely he is going to play more than 4th line minutes or else he might ask for a trade or not necessarily be he veteran influence you want, it is still his dream to be a NHL player after all.

  31. supernova says:

    ericrsports: The biggest difference, was Ford was used to help the prospects on any line. He moved up and down the lineup many times through the season. Someone like Williams though, was purely used for scoring and easily took a spot that a prospect could have filled.

    I believe yourself and Neal, and Patricia clarified this for me during the season.

    The usage of Ford was different than that of Hamilton or Williams.

    From what I understand Pinizotto was also used similar to Ford in the fact he was moved throughout the lineup.

    I like to use the term the “key development minutes”

  32. SwedishPoster says:

    He’s not an Oiler anymore but these are the slow days of summer and I think it’s an interesting story. Anyway Linus Omark did an interview where he spoke about his struggles with confidence and performance anxiety. He’s been seeing a psychologist because he’s clinically obsessive with fear of failing andnot playing well and getting jumped on by media with them writing that he is trash. It seems even little critique has hit him very hard and has been blown out of proportion.
    In typical Omark fashion his wording is very childish and doesn’t come off as having a great grip on what having performance anxiety actually means, he says stuff in the sense of “I’m mentally retarded, I’m a head case”, but nonetheless, he clearly has had some real issues with this. He also says he’s a hypochondric, with constant fear that he has cancer or heart issues, which is in the same area as the obsessing over failing.

    Expressed in a childish way or not, it’s an interesting interview, both in that you’re not really surprised at all that it’s Omark having these problems, it kinda explains some of his actions over the years, it certainly speaks volumes about Todd Nelson who pretty much is the only coach who has been able to get Omark to perform somewhat consistently.
    It also puts a light on how much this game is about mental strength, this is an extreme case but it shows the importance for a coach and an organization as a whole to understand that each player comes with a different set of tools at the mental level as well as a physical level.
    To get a team to perform at an optimal level you need to approach each player differently, while at the same time treating all players equally. Therein lies the trick.

  33. Bank Shot says:

    supernova: Bank Shot,

    BS

    You are missing my point.

    I also think head kicked in isn’t exactly what happened.
    You play Moroz up even a line with better linemates rather than in a 4th line AHL role.

    Later in the season they did do this and that is when production started happening.

    My point is you spent an asset of high 2nd rounder where will he best succeed?
    I am fine with playing him in the ECHL but the fact is he needs to play. 6-8 minutes a night for the majority of the season is hardly development.

    I understand the point, but I just haven’t been convinced yet that just playing young players at all costs will necessarily result in a higher chance of producing an NHL player.

    I’m in favor of trying to acquire more young players that can play ie. college kids ala Arcobello or Miller that can fill the role of reliable vets but I think every team is already trying their best to do that.

  34. Lowetide says:

    Great points, Swedish Poster. Omark was/is an electric talent, I hope he gets himself into a good mindset.

  35. Concur says:

    LT, do you see Laleggia and Betker playing in the ECHL due to the back log of defense in the system? 17 by my count plus Ludwig. Not a lot of roster spots for the professionals.

  36. Lowetide says:

    Concur:
    LT, do you see Laleggia and Betker playing in the ECHL due to the back log of defense in the system?17 by my count plus Ludwig.Not a lot of roster spots for the professionals.

    Betker for sure but I expect Laleggia is going to play a lot in the AHL, most of the season. We’re going to see a cull imo, even if it’s Gernat to Europe for the final year of the entry-level deal.

  37. 36 percent body fat says:

    love the big lights big city quote, Edmonton may be bigger city wise but the metro areas are about the same.

  38. Concur says:

    Lowetide: Betker for sure but I expect Laleggia is going to play a lot in the AHL, most of the season. We’re going to see a cull imo, even if it’s Gernat to Europe for the final year of the entry-level deal.

    Who else do you see going to the ECHL if both Nurse and Reinhart or even Davidson start in the AHL?

    So Far in no particular order I have
    Sekera – Shultz
    Nikitin – Fayne
    Klefbom – Ference
    Gryba

    Nurse – Renhart
    Gernat – Osterle
    Musil – Simpson
    Davidson – Hunt

    That is a lot of D to look through in training camp

  39. supernova says:

    Bank Shot: I understand the point, but I just haven’t been convinced yet that just playing young players at all costs will necessarily result in a higher chance of producing an NHL player.

    I’m in favor of trying to acquire more young players that can play ie.college kids ala Arcobello or Miller that can fill the role of reliable vets but I think every team is already trying their best to do that.

    Bank Shot,

    Aside from what I have looked at
    This is a look using AHL Points and GP

    http://canucksarmy.com/2015/7/24/establishing-ahl-baseline-s-for-prospect-success

    Independent of each other and different ways to look at it, we are basically finding the same thing.

    I am not saying at all costs, I am saying if we want to produce more NHL players they NEED to play more minutes, age 19-23 is a key time frame.

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