THE DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH

The 5-9-0 Oilers are what we discussed in summer: Badly in need of veteran defensive help and miles from being able to compete against good NHL teams. I don’t share much of the gloom many Oilers fans felt last night—you can’t ask a defense with three rookies to cover Crosby, Malkin, Kessel et al for 60 minutes flawlessly—and of course we have to adjust our sights for this club while McDavid is away. Those are facts. If you’re mad and upset this morning, you need to go back to August and join me in being critical of management in (once again) stopping short of balance. They need defensive help, and have since Pronger left. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. Remember Laddy Smid as a rookie? Yeah.

  • Oilers in October 2014: 4-5-1
  • Oilers in October 2015: 4-8-0
  • Oilers in November 2014: 2-9-3
  • Oilers in November 2015: 1-1-0
  • Oilers in December 2014: 2-8-4
  • Oilers in December 2015:

We’re on to Chicago.

THE VERY YOUNG BLUE,  LAST NIGHT

OIL D NOV 6

Darnell Nurse had a good night to my eye, although the Sprong goal saw him commit to helping Sekera at the exact moment the pass came from the corner to the slot on the 1-1 goal. That is to be expected with young defensemen, folks. That aside, he was strong and battled some of the NHL’s best (went 6-6 in 5:19 against Sidney Crosby; 6-3 in 4:31 against Malkin) on a night I saw him good. Fast, physical, rangy, the fact he’s easily one of the six best available to Todd McLellan is a reflection of just how far this team has to go before they have the depth to keep a player like this on the farm. Looong way.

Andrej Sekera lost a battle on the first goal, and speed appears to be an issue, but I like him more each game. He can play either side, pass the puck and play in all three disciplines. Suspect Oilers fans won’t warm to him—he doesn’t fit the Jason Smith profile—but Edmonton needs more of this, not less.

Oscar Klefbom scored a terrific goal, but he and Brandon Davidson (understandably) had a tough time with some of those fabulous Penguins. Klef was 4-8 in 6:30 against Crosby, and a ghastly 2-9 in 4:48 against Malkin. Before you go crazy on those numbers, think about the lack of experience on that pairing. It’s Everest, folks. Everest.

Brandon Davidson shared Klefbom’s night, he’s an interesting player. When a defenseman drafted 5+ years ago is still a bit of a mystery, chances are he’s made some progress since draft day. How much? No idea. He’s not an established NHL player and that may not happen here (so much youth, this can’t go on), but it’s pretty clear he’s in the mix for something.

Griffin Reinhart and Eric Gryba were beaten pretty consistently (3-6 in 4:48 against Malkin) but as above they also took on the most defensive zone starts and that’s a factor for sure. I don’t like this pairing, they’re too similar and their weaknesses (puck movement, flying the zone under control) leave then exceptionally vulnerable when in their own zone.

It’s a better idea than Reinhart—Gryba in my mind, although if you’re going to park Mark Fayne all year, perhaps cash that man for something the coach will use. Anyway, bottom line on the blue: They’re just like the Toronto Maple Leafs in 1970 or so, lots of impressive young talent and they’re going to need a number of lessons before they can play the piano. Howie Meeker used to famously say “KIDS! Don’t play like the Leafs!” during the era that team was cobbling together a young defensive unit, and that’s the issue for you, me, and all those tremendous young forwards. We wait. Unless you’re Taylor Hall, who just goes and grabs the puck and does it himself.

CENTERS

oil c nov 6

Leon Draisaitl was 4-6 in 6:12 against Sidney Crosby, I’d say that’s a pretty good grade for a guy who is still a rookie in terms of experience if not in fact. He had a great chance to score but his mighty oak broke at a bad time (looked like a rollover by several logging trucks on the Whitemud) and made some nice plays.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins was 4-7 in 5:19 against Evgeni Malkin and 6-6 in 4:03 against Crosby. His line didn’t create as many good chances as they will in a week or two, but I thought they were good for their first game. Posts cost this line and others.

Anton Lander won’t be on this team long if he doesn’t move the needle more. He’s going to take the hit for the 3line’s failure.  2-6 in two minutes against Nick Bonino. Mark Letestu (as you can see) received the most defensive zone starts, getting what’s left of the Boyd Gordon treatment. He was 4-4 against Bonino’s trio, and frankly I thought Letestu played a decent game despite the possession numbers.

WINGERS

oil w no 6

Andrew Miller started at center, then moved to wing and ended up playing one minute on a line with Pouliot and Yakupov (and they were good, 2-0 and had some things going). I think he earned another game.

Benoit Pouliot had a weird night, looked ghastly for a time but then returned to his reliable self. If the Oilers were a playoff contender, he might slip down to the third line once in awhile to really screw with matchups. He’s a load.

Jordan Eberle looked good for first time in an NHL game, his timing is off and that’s going to impact the line. I felt he played better as the game went along.

Teddy Purcell had better underlying numbers than the visual suggests, and that often happens with veterans. His 5×5 offense isn’t a factor at this point, but it needs to be, even when he’s playing with 6’s and 7’s. I may be one of the few Oilers fans left who likes him, wish he had just a little more speed.

Iiro Pakarinen didn’t show up in a good way often enough in my opinion.

Nail Yakupov damn near scored the tying goal and I was thrilled for his performance last night. Well done, young man. He was 10-17 with the Nuge, though. That needs to improve if that line is going to stay together. Nail took the hit on the Sprong goal, but for me that’s not his man. Nurse had the front of the net, made the commitment, and it cashed. The trailer is to be covered by the center, no? Don’t have an answer for you on where Nuge was, only that I would need more evidence to prove Nail was the bad man there.

Taylor Hall was flying as always, a pure joy. Played about 10 minutes total against Sid and Evgeni (4-7 and 4-6, respectively) and made good-to-great decisions for the most part with the puck. Terrific toe-drag on Letang but the goal wouldn’t goal.

Matt Hendricks put in another smart game, when this team is ready for the playoffs he’ll do all this fine work from the 4line.

ANDERS NILSSON

For me, I stay with Talbot as the starter but Nilsson’s performances can’t be denied. At the very least, we have an interesting conversation. Bruce McCurdy and I will discuss at noon today on Saturday Sports Extra.

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151 Responses to "THE DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH"

  1. Woodguy says:

    Re: Goalering

    I wrote this at the end of the GDT:

    Nice to see Nilsson have a solid game.

    Competition in the net is a good thing.

    I think a big reason for Talbot running 3 bad games in a row was work load.

    He was the 5th most used goalie in the NHL in October.

    Not exactly easing him into the starter’s role.

    Now that there is some confidence in Nilsson I expect more TOI of each of them and the goalering to be pretty solid here on out.

    I’m glad Nilsson is doing well, the starters job is up for grabs and it will give Talbot some internal pressure to stay sharp.

    I’m not worried about the puck stopping.

    Its the forward stopping, puck getting and then puck passing that gives me the jimmy legs.

  2. sliderule says:

    The oiler defence vacated the box on winning goal and Yak was left alone.I don’t know we’re the rest of forwards went but Yak was isolated

    The problem I have with Yak is he gets to box and slot area and then doesn’t mark anyone.

    Getting to the area is only half the job .

  3. Woodguy says:

    I hope McLellan puts Fayne in soon. Preferably for Gryba.

    Here’s the Oilers Dmen Scoring Chance Against/60 (SCA/60) and High Danger Scoring Chance Against/60 (HDSCA/60)

    Remember that these numbers are certainly influenced by playing partner, C that they tend to be on the ice with, and opposition.

    When I look at these numbers league wide I often see two things:

    1) Team effects. Some teams have more of a shut down system and a rising tide lifts all boats

    2) 3rd pairing guys. – When you play against puck optional players, your scoring chance against will go down.

    Its disconcerting to see the Oilers’ 3rd pairing guys among their worst.

    SCA/60
    Darnell.Nurse 21.58
    Oscar.Klefbom 23.21
    Brandon.Davidson 24.8
    Andrej.Sekera 25.21
    Griffin.Reinhart 26.23
    Justin.Schultz 26.26
    Mark.Fayne 27.1
    Eric.Gryba 27.67
    Andrew.Ference 29.14

    HDSCA/60
    Mark.Fayne 9.78
    Oscar.Klefbom 10.32
    Griffin.Reinhart 10.62
    Andrej.Sekera 11.24
    Brandon.Davidson 11.27
    Darnell.Nurse 11.51
    Justin.Schultz 12.02
    Eric.Gryba 14.64
    Andrew.Ference 15.89

    “Mark Fayne white courtesy phone. Mr. Fayne white courtesy phone please”

    McLellan mentioned that he looks at scoring chance against data “both individually and as a pair”

    It *must* be clear to him that its time to sit Gryba.

    Must be.

    I’d be tempted to do this:

    Sekera-Nurse
    Klefbom-Fayne
    Davidson-Reinhart

  4. Henry says:

    I really don’t understand why Fayne is out and Gryba is in with three rookies and rookie-last-year Klefbom. Fayne hasn’t been good, but he hasn’t exactly been bad either. That doghouse is pretty deep and dark.

    Edit: Er…what WG said!

  5. Lowetide says:

    sliderule:
    The oiler defence vacated the box on winning goal and Yak was left alone.I don’t know we’re the rest of forwards went but Yak was isolated

    The problem I have with Yak is he gets to box and slot area and then doesn’t mark anyone.

    Getting to the area is only half the job .

    Completely rational argument. If someone said “McLellan told everyone that P1 is the first guy back and don’t adjust at all once that’s established” then it’s cool. Or, maybe Nuge was heading off and the new man was late to the guard. Don’t know.

    I do agree about the coverage, Oilers forwards have that disease for sure.

  6. A'bunadh says:

    Well said regarding Yak. He was in no mans land but Sprong shouldn’t have been his responsibility.
    With Nilsson, he’s making the saves but he scares me with his inability to control/smother pucks cleanly. The Pens disallowed goal was one that snuck through him. There were quite a few scrambles in front of him because he couldn’t control/smother shots. Glad he’s making the initial saves but in a game like that he could play identically and give up 5 because of the loose pucks coming off/through him. I’d go back with Talbot and keep them on more of an even rotation to keep them both fresh and pushing each other.

  7. godot10 says:

    //Nail Yakupov damn near scored the tying goal and I was thrilled for his performance last night. //

    But he was Sam Gagner on the goal against, oblivious to the man who scored the goal, who was his responsiblity. The first layers of the defense failed. As the last layer, it was his responsibility not to fail. It wasn’t a lost puck battle. It was a totally missed assignment.

    No way Spong was Nurse’s man…Spong was in the high slot, Yakupov’s responsibility.

  8. Woodguy says:

    Also,

    Please to be calling Leon Draisaitl “Saddle The Paddle”

    Thank you in advance.

    We will also accept: “Saddle” or “Paddle” on their own.

    Eventually we will accept: “Paddy” and then “Irish”

  9. Pouzar says:

    godot10:
    //Nail Yakupov damn near scored the tying goal and I was thrilled for his performance last night. //

    But he was Sam Gagner on the goal against, oblivious to the man who scored the goal, who was his responsiblity.The first layers of the defense failed.As the last layer, it was his responsibility not to fail.It wasn’t a lost puck battle.It was a totally missed assignment.

    And who does kick saves anymore? Really Yak?
    Get down in that butterfly!

  10. A'bunadh says:

    godot10:
    //Nail Yakupov damn near scored the tying goal and I was thrilled for his performance last night. //

    But he was Sam Gagner on the goal against, oblivious to the man who scored the goal, who was his responsiblity.The first layers of the defense failed.As the last layer, it was his responsibility not to fail.It wasn’t a lost puck battle.It was a totally missed assignment.

    No way Spong was Nurse’s man…Spong was in the high slot, Yakupov’s responsibility.

    In what world/defensive scheme is it a winger’s responsibility to cover a winger coming through the slot?
    No doubt there was a breakdown but to pin it on Yak is head scratching.

  11. rich says:

    Agree w/Woodguy.

    Put Fayne in, sit Gryba.

    Good analysis on the 1st goal against last night. Lot of posters here were picking on Yak, but really it started w/Sekera losing a battle and then Nurse is in a tough spot for a d-man. He made a rookie mistake. It happens.

    Don’t like losing, but will say again, they’re learning. They’re playing w/better structure and I’ll put up with that because you can see there are better days coming. Finally.

    If it weren’t for the suckage of the last 9 years, I think we’d all be a lot more patient, but there is progress being made.

  12. Woodguy says:

    Re: Sprong Goal

    Pou is down in the corner in the battle so RNH is covering his spot.

    Nurse covers high slot, Yak cover low slot and cross pass to the LD. Then Nurse takes off and his high slot man scores.

    Yak could have done more but this one is all Nurse and Sekera/Pou for not winning the battle on the boards.

    Watch for yourself: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2015020198-237-h

    The replay shows the break down very well.

  13. Klima's_Bucket says:

    In regards to the GWG,

    1. Initially Sekera failed to separate Plotnikov from the puck.
    2. Pouliot comes in and does shit all to help Sekera out. There should be no reason why two veterans can’t outmuscle and separate a rookie from the puck.
    3. Nuge is standing in the corner, doing an excellent job of covering the Rexall board decal.
    4. Nurse arrives late after chasing the play all the way to the blue line, by the time he gets back, he is in no man’s land between Cullen and Sprong and is unable to block the pass or tie up anyone.
    5. Yakupov comes back low in the slot, however he fails to cover anyone, and instead screens Nilsson.

    I blame everyone. Except Nilsson, and I love blaming goalies.
    See: Scrivens, Ben or Fasth, Viktor

  14. Bank Shot says:

    “Those are facts. If you’re mad and upset this morning, you need to go back to August and join me in being critical of management in (once again) stopping short of balance.”

    I’m not sure you can chastise fans for being doom and gloom at this point in the season when you were predicting 93 points for the Oilers in August. You weren’t exactly preaching low expectations back then.

    Seems like you are straddling both sides of the fence.

    I don’t think its too much to ask to see a team show some kind of improvement year to year.

    Oilers are still buried in the standings and the fancy stats, and they haven’t shown any real signs of improvement. Being a mediocore team isn’t that difficult. Around 20 teams do it every year. The fact that the Oilers can’t even get to mediocore is just downright exhausting.

    If the Oilers go through the entire season with this D-core it’s another year of Hall’s career wasted. They need to cash some futures/forwars for a defenceman that can play, and they need to do it yesterday.

  15. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Woodguy,

    You beat me to it Woodguy, you always do…

  16. Pouzar says:

    A’bunadh: In what world/defensive scheme is it a winger’s responsibility to cover a winger coming through the slot?
    No doubt there was a breakdown but to pin it on Yak is head scratching.

    I dunno. I’d like to hear our resident schemes guy on that but it was once taboo to pass the puck in front of the net to exit the zone too. Teams do it all the time now.

  17. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Klima’s_Bucket,

    I take back what I said about Nuge, he was in good position in regards to covering Pouliot’s man for him since Pouliot played the role of Center on the play.

  18. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy:

    I’d be tempted to do this:

    Sekera-Nurse
    Klefbom-Fayne
    Davidson-Reinhart

    What’s the rational for keeping Reinhart in the lineup?

    He was downright horrendous last night. Worse than Gryba IMO.

    I wasn’t one of the people that was outraged by the trading of a first and a second for Reinhart, but I’m trending that way now.

  19. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy,

    Glad to see you are back! Could it not be argued that there are some benefits to having someone on your defense that gives your opponents cause to keep their heads up. Cause them to check who is on the ice for the oil so to speak. I know it is not quantifiable but I believe there is a value to being hard to play against ie bringing the physicality in your defensive zone!

  20. Optimism is Foolish says:

    “Suspect Oilers fans won’t warm to him—he doesn’t fit the Jason Smith profile—but Edmonton needs more of this, not less.”

    This makes me sigh. I am not really sure Jason would have the career he did in the modern game. So much is dependent on foot speed and puck movement not just bravery and breaking a cycle. Now admittedly those are two important qualities but certainly not the end all and be all for good defense men.

  21. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy: Yak could have done more but this one is all Nurse and Sekera/Pou for not winning the battle on the boards.

    Yes, Sekara, Nurse didn’t do their job, but Yak was the last line of defense and he basically just opened up the gate for Sprong.

    Defensively, It seems like too many times that Yak is in the play, but hardly every part of the play.

    He back checks hard, but usually just covers air, he needs to take a man.

    This play is exactly the type of play that got Gagner dumped on.

    I’m sure Yak is learning today that if he is in the defensive zone in the slot and he is by himself, the first thing he should be doing is covering an opposing player.

  22. Pouzar says:

    frjohnk: Yes, Sekara, Nurse didn’t do their job, but Yak was the last line of defense and he basically just opened up the gate for Sprong.

    Defensively, It seems like too many times that Yak is in the play, but hardly every part of the play.

    He back checks hard, but usually just covers air, he needs to take a man.

    This play is exactly the type of play that got Gagner dumped on.

    I’m sure Yak is learning today that if he is in the defensive zone in the slot and he is by himself, the first thing he should be doing is coveringan opposing player.

    +1

  23. Woodguy says:

    All,

    My little hiatus appears to be over.

    I want to be very clear that it was all about how I was reacting to criticism and trolling, and not the criticism and trolling itself.

    I’ve been posting and arguing about this stuff for 7ish years now so criticism, debate and trolling aren’t new.

    What was new was the anger it was welling up inside me and how personally I was taking it all.

    It had not been like that before.

    i.e.) Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.
    i.e.) Instead of pointing out the flaws in Ryan’s argument, I impugned his ability as a physician.

    These are not my normal responses and I needed a break to figure it out.

    I think I figured out why and changed a couple things and should be back to normal I hope.

    So going forward please feel free to argue, fuss and fight with me if you disagree me. That is the way it should be.

    This place thrives on disagreement and drilling down to figure out what is what.

    My little break was all about how I was handling things and not the things themselves.

    Thank you.

  24. Woodguy says:

    frjohnk: Yes, Sekara, Nurse didn’t do their job, but Yak was the last line of defense and he basically just opened up the gate for Sprong.

    Defensively, It seems like too many times that Yak is in the play, but hardly every part of the play.

    He back checks hard, but usually just covers air, he needs to take a man.

    This play is exactly the type of play that got Gagner dumped on.

    I’m sure Yak is learning today that if he is in the defensive zone in the slot and he is by himself, the first thing he should be doing is coveringan opposing player.

    His first concern was the cross pass to the LD which doesn’t put him into position to cover the high slot.

    Nurse abandoned the high slot and less than 2 seconds later its in the net.

    Can’t expect Yak to react to that perfectly.

    Imo.

  25. Lowetide says:

    Bank Shot:
    “Those are facts. If you’re mad and upset this morning, you need to go back to August and join me in being critical of management in (once again) stopping short of balance.”

    I’m not sure you can chastise fans for being doom and gloom at this point in the season when you were predicting 93 points for the Oilers in August. You weren’t exactly preaching low expectations back then.

    Seems like you are straddling both sides of the fence.

    Fair criticism. Of course, being the fair person you are, I’m certain you’ll allow for slight alteration due to unforeseen circumstances like the McDavid injury. 🙂

    The defense was an issue in summer, remains one now. I don’t really understand getting mad at rookies. Never have.

  26. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy: i.e.) Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.

    I did the same thing a week ago with Dennis King.
    I don’t agree with 90% of his Oiler take and one tweet sent me over the age. It didn’t help
    that I had just finished watching the Frolik game winner(oops). I apologized a minute later.
    It happens.

  27. flyfish1168 says:

    Woodguy:
    Re: Sprong Goal

    Pou is down in the corner in the battle so RNH is covering his spot.

    Nurse covers high slot,Yak cover low slot and cross pass to the LD.Then Nurse takes off and his high slot man scores.

    Yak could have done more but this one is all Nurse and Sekera/Pou for not winning the battle on the boards.

    Watch for yourself: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2015020198-237-h

    The replay shows the break down very well.

    awesome video. That was such a fast play that it would be difficult for Yak to react quick enough to cover Sprong and the possible pass to LD. Totally agree with you.

  28. Woodguy says:

    pts2pndr:
    Woodguy,

    Glad to see you are back!Could it not be argued that there are some benefits to having someoneon your defense that gives your opponents cause to keep their heads up. Cause them to check who is on the ice for the oil so to speak. I know it is not quantifiable but I believe there isa value to being hard to play against ie bringing the physicality in your defensive zone!

    I like my Dmen to be able to paste guys into the boards too.

    My favorite all time Oiler Dmen include Lowe, Steve Smith, Pronger, Jason Smith and others who would give no quarter and make coming into the Oiler zone a painful experience.

    I think Gryba gives up too much in other spots for that factor to be the one to keep him in the lineup though.

  29. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    My little hiatus appears to be over.

    I want to be very clear that it was all about how I was reacting to criticism and trolling, and not the criticism and trolling itself.

    I’ve been posting and arguing about this stuff for 7ish years now so criticism, debate and trolling aren’t new.

    What was new was the anger it was welling up inside me and how personally I was taking it all.

    It had not been like that before.

    i.e.)Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.
    i.e.) Instead of pointing out the flaws in Ryan’s argument, I impugned his ability as a physician.

    These are not my normal responses and I needed a break to figure it out.

    I think I figured out why and changed a couple things and should be back to normal I hope.

    So going forward please feel free to argue, fuss and fight with me if you disagree me.That is the way it should be.

    This place thrives on disagreement and drilling down to figure out what is what.

    My little break was all about how I was handling things and not the things themselves.

    Thank you.

    I’m sorry, but that’s wrong. The REAL reason you left was the unwillingness of the collective to call you “T-Bone” on this blog. Admit it!

  30. Unwashed Oilfan says:

    So, I woke up on the sofa to jeans on the floor in the kitchen. Tried them on, nope, not mine. Wine bottles everywhere, my head hurts real bad. Checked TSN for U-17 score, shit, we lost to Russia in shootout. Ticket stub in my pocket. Receipt from a sports bar in other pocket. Stripper posters on the floor by my shoes. Naked woman in my bed. WTF happened last night? I can see a boob. It’s a nice one. She looks keepable. Okay Dave, stop staring….who is she? We lost to the Pens? Why is Netflix on login screen in the bedroom? LT, I have a problem. Why do I feel like I tried to eat a grilled cheese sandwich last night?

  31. A'bunadh says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    My little hiatus appears to be over.

    I want to be very clear that it was all about how I was reacting to criticism and trolling, and not the criticism and trolling itself.

    I’ve been posting and arguing about this stuff for 7ish years now so criticism, debate and trolling aren’t new.

    What was new was the anger it was welling up inside me and how personally I was taking it all.

    It had not been like that before.

    i.e.)Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.
    i.e.) Instead of pointing out the flaws in Ryan’s argument, I impugned his ability as a physician.

    These are not my normal responses and I needed a break to figure it out.

    I think I figured out why and changed a couple things and should be back to normal I hope.

    So going forward please feel free to argue, fuss and fight with me if you disagree me.That is the way it should be.

    This place thrives on disagreement and drilling down to figure out what is what.

    My little break was all about how I was handling things and not the things themselves.

    Thank you.

    I had that same issue with whiskey. All of a sudden all my friends turned in to assholes when I drank whiskey so I had to take a break. Never could figure it out so its been a 6 year break. Glad I don’t have those issues with single malt though.
    Glad you figured it out. I think everyone goes through it. I’ve seen Gregor, Rishaug and Brownlee overreact and snap a little at criticism as well. It happens.

  32. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot: What’s the rational for keeping Reinhart in the lineup?

    He was downright horrendous last night. Worse than Gryba IMO.

    I wasn’t one of the people that was outraged by the trading of a first and a second for Reinhart, but I’m trending that way now.

    Both by eye and by fancystats he is among the top 6 Oiler Dman at keeping the opposition’s possession outside of the scoring zone.

    That has value.

  33. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy: His first concern was the cross pass to the LD which doesn’t put him into position to cover the high slot.

    Nurse abandoned the high slot and less than 2 seconds later its in the net.

    Can’t expect Yak to react to that perfectly.

    Imo.

    Just rewatched the video. The play did happen quickly. Cant really fault Yak on that play as Yak was almost in the crease while Sprong came from the high slot.

  34. Genjutsu says:

    This team could really benefit from having Fayne in and Gryba out. Until they get an upgrade RHD.

    If playoffs are not a possibility, and I think with the boat anchors MacT left the team with it wasn’t ever going to be this season. Then I’d like to see Fayne and Gryba gone at the dead line.

    Use the picks to help in a package for a RHD difference maker.

    With the right addition at RHD I think this team makes the playoffs. Maybe makes some noise depending on the bottom 6 tweaks made.

    Who knows with hot goalering a McJesus miracle might happen.

  35. Bank Shot says:

    Lowetide: Fair criticism. Of course, being the fair person you are, I’m certain you’ll allow for slight alteration due to unforeseen circumstances like the McDavid injury.

    The defense was an issue in summer, remains one now. I don’t really understand getting mad at rookies. Never have.

    Sure, but they were like 4-8 when McDavid went down so as great as McDavid has been, the team is still junk.

    I’m not preaching blame the rookies, I just don’t want to see 6 at a time on the team anymore.

    It’s getting old.

  36. bill needle says:

    When three youngsters and a backup goalie who wasn’t in the NHL last year keep Crosby, Malkin and company to two goals, and the Oilers still lose, it appears the problem is with the offence rather than the defence.
    Even without McDavid, the Oilers have the horses up front to score more than one goal on Pittsburgh’s equally no-name defence and a goalie I’ve never heard of.
    I also question the statement that the Oilers are miles from competing with good teams. They competed with Pittsburgh pretty well, and almost tied it in the late going. They’re doing fine in the competing department most games. It’s the winning (and getting a loser point at least) that they’re falling short.

  37. frjohnk says:

    A couple of fun stats.

    RNH is leading the 2011 draft class in points per game at 0.73 points per game. Landeskog is 2nd at 0.69.

    Klefbom is 2nd for D men at 0.32 points per game. Hamilton is 1st at 0.45 points per game

    Edit: Gaudreau is actually leading forwards at 0.83 points per game

  38. raventalon40 says:

    frjohnk: Yes, Sekara, Nurse didn’t do their job, but Yak was the last line of defense and he basically just opened up the gate for Sprong.

    Defensively, It seems like too many times that Yak is in the play, but hardly every part of the play.

    He back checks hard, but usually just covers air, he needs to take a man.

    This play is exactly the type of play that got Gagner dumped on.

    I’m sure Yak is learning today that if he is in the defensive zone in the slot and he is by himself, the first thing he should be doing is coveringan opposing player.

    I don’t know why Yak draws this criticism for someone else’s mistake. I’ve seen our defensive stalwart RNH lose just as many battles with guys he’s suppossed to be covering as Yak does. It comes with experience. In this case, in addition, somehow Yak is to blame for the miatakes of others. Eberle is much worse at exiting the zone and not marking a guy than Yak is. No criticism there though…

    Coverage is not a transient property. The center might support the D when they are outnumbered, and the winger might support the center when they are outnumbered. But regardless, their guy is their guy.

    Edit: It’s not piggy in the middle. Nurse has to make that decision sooner.

    But to say on a play like such as that one that the winger is at fault for someone else’s mistake sounds like selective blaming, and ignoring all the root causes. Imo

  39. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I’m sorry, but that’s wrong. The REAL reason you left was the unwillingness of the collective to call you “T-Bone” on this blog. Admit it!

    I thought that part went without saying.

  40. G Money says:

    My comment last night on the Spong goal is that it might have been prevented if Yak had reacted faster – he was in the right place, and his head swiveled to see Sprong, but by then the puck had already arrived and all Yak could do was try to play goalie.

    His role was the most visible, but the least responsible, so naturally the MSM blamed him.

    All the ugly breakdowns happened before that.

    Or you can take the rather more blunt assessment from PDO:

    If you watch that play and your first reaction is to blame Yakupov you should probably stop watching hockey. Nurse and Sekera were putrid.— Brian King (@Kinger999) November 7, 2015

  41. Lowetide says:

    Bank Shot: Sure, but they were like 4-8 when McDavid went down so as great as McDavid has been, the team is still junk.

    I’m not preaching blame the rookies, I just don’t want to see 6 at a time on the team anymore.

    It’s getting old.

    Meh. This team isn’t going to win 24 games like last season, and they’re not going to have a month like last November or December. It’s true they are playing a lot of kids, but the veterans could help a lot by playing better than the kids. Suspect we see some kind of movement in regard to Fayne, either he’s in the lineup or gone soon.

  42. G Money says:

    bill needle,

    I agree.

    The Oilers lost to a veteran team that is playing really well, having won 5 in a row prior to the game.

    Apart from the first period – and these slow starts are starting to become worrisome – the Oilers played even up with the Penguins.

    They got beaten by a better team and four goalposts.

    A lot of the criticism seems over the top.

  43. G Money says:

    Also not sure about why Reinhart is taking so much grief.

    I thought he was solid, and unlike Nurse and Sekera, almost never got beat individually.

    His performance is reflected in his decent numbers, especially scoring chance numbers, while being paired almost entirely with Gryba, who last night perfected the art of tape to tape passing to the opposition.

    Dangerous Fenwick had him as the second most effective defender overall last night, and my eye agrees.

  44. Ice Sage says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    In regards to the GWG,

    1. Initially Sekera failed to separate Plotnikov from the puck.
    2. Pouliot comes in and does shit all to help Sekera out.There should be no reason why two veterans can’t outmuscle and separate a rookie from the puck.
    3. Nuge is standing in the corner, doing an excellent job of covering the Rexall board decal.
    4. Nurse arrives late after chasing the play all the way to the blue line, by the time he gets back, he is in no man’s land between Cullen and Sprong and is unable to block the pass or tie up anyone.
    5. Yakupov comes back low in the slot, however he fails to cover anyone, and instead screens Nilsson.

    I blame everyone. Except Nilsson, and I love blaming goalies.
    See: Scrivens, Ben or Fasth, Viktor

    Nitpicking here fellas but you are all talking about the game-TYING-goal.

    The GWG (and disallowed goal) is illustrative as well, though – the Pens have better high-end players and a better power play. That was the diff last night. And will be to the Oilers advantage soon.

  45. Pouzar says:

    raventalon40: I don’t know why Yak draws this criticism for someone else’s mistake.I’ve seen our defensive stalwart RNH lose just as many battles with guys he’s suppossed to be covering as Yak does. It comes with experience. In this case, in addition, somehow Yak is to blame for the miatakes of others. Eberle is much worse at exiting the zone and not marking a guy than Yak is. No criticism there though…

    Coverage is not a transient property. The center might support the D when they are outnumbered, and the winger might support the center when they are outnumbered. But regardless, their guy is their guy.

    Edit: It’s not piggy in the middle. Nurse has to make that decision sooner.

    But to say on a play like such as that one that the winger is at fault for someone else’s mistake sounds like selective blaming, and ignoring all the root causes. Imo

    Wow.

  46. leadfarmer says:

    Yak looked away from that puck just as it was coming into the slot which made him completely misplay it. Am I the only one that sees the wingers actually trying to coverthe slot as progress. Under the swarm days he would have been left alone.

    I really hope they run with Nielson Now. Talbot got his chance and Scrivensed it. Run the hot hand

  47. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    My little hiatus appears to be over.

    I want to be very clear that it was all about how I was reacting to criticism and trolling, and not the criticism and trolling itself.

    I’ve been posting and arguing about this stuff for 7ish years now so criticism, debate and trolling aren’t new.

    What was new was the anger it was welling up inside me and how personally I was taking it all.

    It had not been like that before.

    i.e.)Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.
    i.e.) Instead of pointing out the flaws in Ryan’s argument, I impugned his ability as a physician.

    These are not my normal responses and I needed a break to figure it out.

    I think I figured out why and changed a couple things and should be back to normal I hope.

    So going forward please feel free to argue, fuss and fight with me if you disagree me.That is the way it should be.

    This place thrives on disagreement and drilling down to figure out what is what.

    My little break was all about how I was handling things and not the things themselves.

    Thank you.

    Wish you’d told me. I could’ve just recommended this book: https://epl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1273395005_how_not_to_be_a_dick

    Worked for me.

  48. Pouzar says:

    Ice Sage: and a better power play

    Seriously?

  49. Kmart99 says:

    Woodguy:

    I’d be tempted to do this:

    Sekera-Nurse
    Klefbom-Fayne
    Davidson-Reinhart

    This is the play here.

  50. Water Fire says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    My little hiatus appears to be over.

    I want to be very clear that it was all about how I was reacting to criticism and trolling, and not the criticism and trolling itself.

    I’ve been posting and arguing about this stuff for 7ish years now so criticism, debate and trolling aren’t new.

    What was new was the anger it was welling up inside me and how personally I was taking it all.

    It had not been like that before.

    i.e.)Instead of laughing at DSF on twitter I swore at him and blocked him.
    i.e.) Instead of pointing out the flaws in Ryan’s argument, I impugned his ability as a physician.

    These are not my normal responses and I needed a break to figure it out.

    I think I figured out why and changed a couple things and should be back to normal I hope.

    So going forward please feel free to argue, fuss and fight with me if you disagree me.That is the way it should be.

    This place thrives on disagreement and drilling down to figure out what is what.

    My little break was all about how I was handling things and not the things themselves.

    Thank you.

    That is a very self-actualized and appropriate way to do things.

    I’m sorry but I don’t like it, at all.

    F#&k U Book!je

    F#%k U Woodguy.

    Sorry for profanity.

  51. G Money says:

    RexLibris,

    Did it though?

    ( 😉 )

  52. Woodguy says:

    Water Fire: That is a very self-actualized and appropriate way to do things.

    I’m sorry but I don’t like it, at all.

    F#&k U Book!je

    F#%k U Woodguy.

    Sorry for profanity.

    This is the correct answer.

  53. G Money says:

    leadfarmer,

    Agreed.

    Yak had a slow/strange reaction to the play and wears some of it. I’m sure he’d be the first to tell you that.

    But to compare him to e.g. Gagner is strange. Gagner’s approach was to trail the play and be fixated on the puck, leaving him behind the play and passive i.e. the classic ‘also in picture’.

    Yak was none of those things. He was in the right position, tried to react, and if he’d blocked that shot, maybe today we’d be talking about how he saved Nurse and Sekera’s bacon.

    Progress.

  54. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: Wish you’d told me. I could’ve just recommended this book: https://epl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1273395005_how_not_to_be_a_dick

    Worked for me.

    Oh, I have every intention of still being a dick.

  55. Mr DeBakey says:

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Did it though?

    ( )

    I can hear it now “Ya mean I gotta read the damn thing?”

  56. Water Fire says:

    I would love to know what is going on behind scenes. I have no idea why Gryba is playing. Yes he is very good at impeding a fore checker dumping in, and kills a cycle dead with a hit.

    The total inability to make a play or a pass after that kind of renders it all moot.

    Reinhart should be in the AHL, but perhaps he could be decent with Schultz with appropriate usage. A vet is a much better idea.

    Surely they can see immobile puck squarers can’t do the job now? Right?

  57. leadfarmer says:

    I know they like Grybas physicality but I don’t get why he is played every game. And what was the point of spending a kings ransom for Reinhart if you saddle him with Gryba.

    Also, I know the d has a serious lack of experience but they played pretty well yesterday. The bottom 6 forwards produced nothing yet again. You can’t have two lines of players that are not able to score once in a while. Make Belander Letestu Hendricks 3/4 of the pk units with Nuge as the fourth and make them the tough zone starts and go out there and find a 3rd line.

  58. LMHF#1 says:

    Unwashed Oilfan:
    So, I woke up on the sofa to jeans on the floor in the kitchen.Tried them on, nope, not mine.Wine bottles everywhere, my head hurts real bad.Checked TSN for U-17 score, shit, we lost to Russia in shootout.Ticket stub in my pocket.Receipt from a sports bar in other pocket.Stripper posters on the floor by my shoes.Naked woman in my bed.WTF happened last night?I can see a boob.It’s a nice one.She looks keepable.Okay Dave, stop staring….who is she?We lost to the Pens?Why is Netflix on login screen in the bedroom?LT, I have a problem.Why do I feel like I tried to eat a grilled cheese sandwich last night?

    So, does a win inspire a better or worse night?

  59. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Oh, I have every intention of still being a dick.

    Don’t go too far out of your comfort zone to do it, though. 🙂

  60. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy: Both by eye and by fancystats he is among the top 6 Oiler Dman at keeping the opposition’s possession outside of the scoring zone.

    That has value.

    By eye, I would say he gives away the puck as much or more as any other defender on the Oilers.

    He’s ony played 6 games so I would say his fancy stats would still be plagued with small sample size.

  61. RexLibris says:

    Here’s what I wrote last night after the Sprong goal.

    Too bad for Yakupov.

    He was in the right spot, had his head on a swivel.

    Nice shot by Sprong. Why were there three Oilers behind the icing line?

    Emphasis added.

    There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Yakupov did there.

    Nothing.

    The pass should never have gone through to Sprong.

    That is where the fault lies.

    Blaming Yakupov for the goal makes as much sense as blaming Nilsson for Draisaitl’s broken stick.

    Thankfully we have a coach who recognizes where the problem originated and isn’t going to hang the forward for the defensive breakdown.

    Now, let’s look at things rationally.

    Last night they played one of the hottest and most-skilled teams very well. If this were a road game, the Oilers would’ve played it nearly perfectly. They were beaten by a post (or three) and a broken stick.

    Draisaitl acquitted himself well at center against good competition, and the three rookie blueliners held up relatively well.

    If they can play, at minimum, that game against Chicago, they stand a chance of winning.

    Forwards – excellent and learning
    Defense – underwhelming but with tremendous potential
    Goaltending – good to very good

    I think the nightmare is over. We’re awake, but still shaken from the dark, dark night. It’ll take some time, but the sun is coming over the horizon. Things are going to be okay.

  62. RexLibris says:

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Did it though?

    ( )

    Meh. More like it just showed me what behaviours to exploit for certain situations.

    I’ve always wanted to write a book called “The 7 Habits of Highley Affective People”. You know, to encapsulate the behaviours of those individuals who elicit in others dramatic responses.

  63. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:

    Now, let’s look at things rationally.

    Hmmm. I think we’d need to have a vote if we’re going to change the blog this much.

  64. Dominoiler says:

    Woodguy,

    Bravo, takes guts to check oneself (publicly), giving the ego a ‘time-out’ for behavior deemed out of character.. Know when to hold’m, know when to fold’m..

  65. Bank Shot says:

    G Money:
    Also not sure about why Reinhart is taking so much grief.

    I thought he was solid, and unlike Nurse and Sekera, almost never got beat individually.

    His performance is reflected in his decent numbers, especially scoring chance numbers, while being paired almost entirely with Gryba, who last night perfected the art of tape to tape passing to the opposition.

    Dangerous Fenwick had him as the second most effective defender overall last night, and my eye agrees.

    I see Reinhart just as guilty as Gryba for making poor passes.

    He also tends to give forwards a lot of space to work. He backs in too much so he avoids getting walked but still gives up a lot of space for opposing forwards to shoot or make plays.

  66. LMHF#1 says:

    That Sprong goal is a great test as to whether you know defensive zone hockey or not. Anyone who has been trained in it knows that isn’t Yakupov’s man. He got left in a crummy spot because the D and C screwed up. It’s like when a dman gets a bad pass at the blue that puts him in a 2-on-1 with no chance and they blame him the next day.

    Easy if you don’t know and are just trying to write an inflammatory comment for the masses.

  67. ruotsalainen says:

    I for one am glad T-Bone is back. Or is it Coco…

    Honestly though, glad to have you back contributing to the discussions.

  68. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot: By eye, I would say he gives away the puck as much or more as any other defender on the Oilers.

    He’s ony played 6 games so I would say his fancy stats would still be plagued with small sample size.

    As is your memory of his play

  69. Nate780 says:

    godot10: //Nail Yakupov damn near scored the tying goal and I was thrilled for his performance last night. //But he was Sam Gagner on the goal against, oblivious to the man who scored the goal, who was his responsiblity. The first layers of the defense failed. As the last layer, it was his responsibility not to fail. It wasn’t a lost puck battle. It was a totally missed assignment.No way Spong was Nurse’s man…Spong was in the high slot, Yakupov’s responsibility.

    high slot is the Centers responsibility

  70. Lowetide says:

    Reinhart is 44.5 w/Gryba 50% without at 5×5 Corsi for %. The kicker? EIGHT minutes without Gryba. That’s a small sample size, but I do think we can reach a conclusion that the two men together aren’t ideal for their current role
    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1996&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

  71. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Hmmm. I think we’d need to have a vote if we’re going to change the blog this much.

    There you go again with them negative waves!

  72. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy: As is your memory of his play

    Yeah my memory isn’t perfect but it’s part of what I use to form assessments on players.

    I remember N.Schultz and Ference getting all the blame for Justin Schultz’s foibles in his first two seasons.

    This might be more of the same with Griffin. Rookies just seem to get given a lot of excuses.

    The fact that Davidson is getting the tap to play second pairing mintues over Griffin is a tell.

  73. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    Reinhart is 44.5 w/Gryba 50% without at 5×5 Corsi for %. The kicker? EIGHT minutes without Gryba. That’s a small sample size, but I do think we can reach a conclusion that the two men together aren’t ideal for their current role
    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1996&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

    WG’s D rotation above is where I’d go.

    The funny thing is, you could move Gryba and Fayne for immediate help.

    In fact, I bet you could package Korpikoski with one or the other for even $ that is a better roster fit, and then move the other defender for picks to be cashed in at the draft for more “immediate” help for 2016-2017.

    Fayne has a solid reputation out East and Gryba is a big tough guy, the kind of blue that certain GMs always seem to value in the Hal Gill/Douglas Murray fashion.

  74. Bank Shot says:

    Nate780: high slot is the Centers responsibility

    I think the NHL goes with F1,F2,F3 often nowadays.

    Whichever forward is first back (F1) can play the center (low) role.

    There was plenty of blame to go around on that goal.

    Yakupov would take a share no doubt.

    He wasn’t the only goat, but he didn’t make a good play either.

  75. G Money says:

    Bank Shot: I see Reinhart just as guilty as Gryba for making poor passes.

    He also tends to give forwards a lot of space to work. He backs in too much so he avoids getting walked but still gives up a lot of space for opposing forwards to shoot or make plays.

    Conversely, his positioning is so good, it’s forcing the shot from a distance, and if the player does get in close, Reinhart chokes them off. Unlike Sekera and Nurse, against the boards, Reinhart completely shut down every player he went against. They got nothing from him. Unfortunately, the most common outcome from his outstanding effort was an outlet to Gryba who then passed it to an open Penguin.

    Even with all that, the average distance of shot against for Reinhart last night was 39.5 ft (bettered only by Sekera – Nurse), and his ‘average danger of shot against’ (my calculation of danger based on both distance and shot type) was 0.7, best on the team.

    21 years old, fewer than 20 games into his NHL career, and he’s already the best shutdown defender the Oilers have.

  76. Lowetide says:

    G Money:

    21 years old, fewer than 20 games into his NHL career, and he’s already the best shutdown defender the Oilers have.

    Agreed. And you know what? He was in the WHL too. Reinhart’s never going to be popular with a large segment of fancy stats folks, but he COULD be a genuinely effective player in a specific, important role for a long time. I still think folks are upset at the cost, but McLellan’s using him over Fayne this early is representative of your point imo.

  77. LMHF#1 says:

    Davidson’s spot isn’t dictated so much by massively better performance as it is his player type. There are things he can do that Reinhart and others cannot.

  78. Snowman says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pICad2mOfMo&feature=share

    I recommend the first ten minutes at least. Stumbled on this while making french toast this morning.

    I was at the game yesterday…I missed Mcdavid. That is all.

  79. JDï™ says:

    Woodguy: Please to be calling Leon Draisaitl “Saddle The Paddle”

    Thank you in advance.

    STP okay? A nickname longer than his proper name isn’t very character friendly.

    And it goes well with CSP.

  80. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot: Yeah my memory isn’t perfect but it’s part of what I use to form assessments on players.

    I remember N.Schultz and Ference getting all the blame for Justin Schultz’s foibles in his first two seasons.

    This might be more of the same with Griffin. Rookies just seem to get given a lot of excuses.

    The fact that Davidson is getting the tap to play second pairing mintues over Griffin is a tell.

    But you are seeing things that others are not and the numbers don’t support it either.

    You’re on a bit of an island here.

    I think Davidson is getting 2nd pair based on foot speed.

  81. G Money says:

    Lowetide: Agreed. And you know what? He was in the WHL too. Reinhart’s never going to be popular with a large segment of fancy stats folks, but he COULD be a genuinely effective player in a specific, important role for a long time. I still think folks are upset at the cost, but McLellan’s using him over Fayne this early is representative of your point imo.

    Yep. It’s time to let go of the ‘what was paid’ or ‘what he’s paid’ and look at the player for what he is. He’s big, strong, smart, and two full seasons away from being near his peak as a defender.

    But as Horcs can tell us, judging a player by what he brings rather than his salary or cost of acquisition, well, that’s just not the Oiler fan way!

    I still don’t know what to make of Fayne. I looked at his Dangerous Fenwick numbers, and it is true that he’s not been doing his one job (defending) well. Reinhart is already better at being a shutdown D.

    So scratching Fayne from that point of view makes sense. But scratching him in favour of Gryba or Ference, neither of whom bring anything more in terms of puck moving and both of whom are markedly worse at the defensive side of the game doesn’t make sense to me.

  82. Woodguy says:

    Thanks for the kind words all.

    Let’s move on.

  83. sliderule says:

    RexLibris,

    When forwards are covering the slot it is their responsibility to mark a man.

    Yak is probably getting more attention because he is working hard to get into those areas.

    There was no opposing forward in tight to blue paint so his respnsibility was to find the nearest danger which happened to be Sprong..

  84. G Money says:

    LMHF#1:
    Davidson’s spot isn’t dictated so much by massively better performance as it is his player type. There are things he can do that Reinhart and others cannot.

    Woodguy: But you are seeing things that others are not and the numbers don’t support it either.

    You’re on a bit of an island here.

    I think Davidson is getting 2nd pair based on foot speed.

    That’s right. Davidson is more versatile and that’s what is getting him second pairing time.

    That said, he and Klefbom while they did OK by Corsi yesterday (virtue of creating something in the o zone), defensively via Dangerous Fenwick they got absolutely destroyed last night.

    These were their TOI and DFA/60 numbers last night:

    D. Nurse 18:24 35.9
    Klef 18:23 52.2
    A. Sekera 17:43 40.0
    E. Gryba 16:10 42.3 37.7
    B. Davidson 15:44 48.8
    G. Reinhart 14:09 38.6

    The Mendoza line for DFA60 is appoximately 39.

    There is a price to be paid asking a pair of guys with less than one season of experience combined to try and hold Crosby, Malkin, & co. in check.

  85. Woodguy says:

    G Money,

    So scratching Fayne from that point of view makes sense. But scratching him in favour of Gryba or Ference, neither of whom bring anything more in terms of puck moving and both of whom are markedly worse at the defensive side of the game doesn’t make sense to me.

    The Gryba TOI thing is certainly weird.

    Oilers Dmen 5v5 TOI/gm
    Darnell Nurse 18:20
    Oscar Klefbom 17:07
    Eric Gryba 16:28
    Andrej Sekera 16:23
    Justin Schultz 16:22
    Griffin Reinhart 16:16
    Brandon Davidson 16:05
    Mark Fayne 14:12
    Andrew Ference 13:20

    Oilers TOI/gm all situations
    Justin Schultz 21:46
    Oscar Klefbom 21:20
    Andrej Sekera 20:27
    Darnell Nurse 19:31
    Eric Gryba 17:51
    Brandon Davidson 17:26
    Griffin Reinhart 17:03
    Mark Fayne 16:07
    Andrew Ference 14:47

    McLellan has been spot on in regards to basically all of his decisions except this one and its really strange.

  86. Woodguy says:

    JDï™: STP okay? A nickname longer than his proper name isn’t very character friendly.

    And it goes well with CSP.

    I’m good with that.

  87. G Money says:

    Woodguy,

    I hope there’s a method to his madness and not the same blind spot that gave guys like Brown regular playing time in San Hoser.

  88. Woodguy says:

    G Money,

    That said, he and Klefbom while they did OK by Corsi yesterday (virtue of creating something in the o zone)

    They were 43% and 44% and got smoked by Malkin.

    Corgi’s didn’t bark too much for them last night.

  89. Gordies Elbow says:

    Looking through G Money’s excellent post on TOI, and auestion for the day: When Justin Schultz is healthy, where does he fit?

    Something like this?:
    Nurse-Schultz
    Klefbom-Davidson
    Reinhart-Sekera
    Gryba

    Or this?:
    Nurse-Sekera
    Klefbom-Davidson
    Reinhart-Schultz
    Gryba

    Thoughts?

  90. G Money says:

    Woodguy,

    Ha ha, yeah, I suppose I’m contextualizing the Corsi between the Dav-Klef and Rein-Gry pairings. The latter got eaten alive by the Corgis, the former got eaten alive by the Dangerous Fenwicks.

    So the difference of course is that Davidson Klefbom created a lot more in the o zone.

    In that context, it makes sense to start Rein-Gry in the d zone – they can handle themselves there, but the Corgis I guess are the inevitable result of having two guys who can’t move the puck on the same pairing and starting lots in the d zone.

  91. speeds says:

    I don’t think it’s unfair to put a bit of blame on Yak there.

    It’s a weird play re: Yakupov because he covered his D diving in but then didn’t head back once he left. Because he sticks around it seems like Nurse thinks something like “well, no point in two of us standing in the same spot”, so he tries to go help the play. Then Yakupov is kind of puckwatching a bit, not horribly so, but a bit – coupled with not getting his stick in the lane on the ice he can’t react quickly enough once the pass is made. He’s trying to do the right thing but a few little things added up there.

  92. hags9k says:

    I don’t blame Yak on that one. The breakdown was on the boards where all of a sudden we had two men checking the same man and the other pen got free for a split second to make the pass.

  93. haters says:

    Suspect Oilers fans won’t warm to him—he doesn’t fit the Jason Smith profile—but Edmonton needs more of this, not less.

    Nothing like reading my favorite blog and getting insulted first thing in the morning. FYI “Oiler fans” like this pick up plenty… He just suffers from the same shit as Petry did …. Playing higher in the lineup than he should be. Wanna know who this Oiler fan fav D man was in the last 15 years was ? Brewer …. I was probably the only fan that was upset that he was traded for Prongs but idc. I loved his all around strong play. Don’t get me wrong I completely forgot about him after the first 20 games of watching mr pronger but alas hindsight is always the most retarted way of looking at things…. Who knew Lupul would suck so bad here…. Good damn I hate K Lowe, fuck that guy.

  94. DBO says:

    What i would like to see when Schultz is healthy.

    Nurse-Sekera (all zones)
    Klefbom-Fayne (defensive zone, tough matchups)
    Reinhart-Schultz (o zone, sheltered in D zone)
    Davidson (cheap two way D man)

    A puck mover on both lines. A Vet and a younger player (Schultz is a vet by now, but if he is sheltered and has Reinhart to back him up, they will work). Short of a trade, this is the most balanced D corps we have and I feel makes best use of their individual skill sets.

  95. Bootstrap Effexor says:

    Woodguy: Eventually we will accept: “Paddy” and then “Irish”

    treacherous Whitemug

    I was already thinking about famous chins and subsequent chapters with today’s announcement of the great umuzzling when I came across Whitemug opining about the evolution of data center power budgets.

  96. G Money says:

    Gordies Elbow,

    I’d say Nurse-Sekera is working well enough to leave alone.

    So you gotta cobble two pairings out of Dav, Gry, Rein, Klef, Schu, Fayne. Gotta think Fayne sits, and Gryba *should* sit, so you have Dav, Rein, Klef, Schu.

    Klef-Schu was last years go-to pairing, so maybe Dav/Rein are the other two to start. That maybe looks like too much rookie chaos in one place – but then again, I can’t imagine it would be any worse than Rein/Gry, and would have more mobility.

  97. böök¡je says:

    Woodguy:
    Thanks for the kind words all.

    Let’s move on.

    You’re just not tough enough to go into the corners of the keyboard into the tough ’tilde’ areas you wimp!!

    Feel better now?

  98. leadfarmer says:

    Sure we can analyze that one play all we want but in the end if you score one goal against the Pens who are not playing their starting goalie you are not going to win.

  99. PeOiler says:

    JDï™,

    Scott Weiland may protest. Pretty sure he’s not a big-time Oiler fan though.

  100. RexLibris says:

    Hockey Graphs ‏@HockeyGraphs 35m35 minutes ago

    From Yesterday – Hockey Talk: Eye Test vs Analytics – Why can’t we define what makes a good defenseman?

    http://hockey-graphs.com/2015/11/06/hockey-talk/

    I don’t know, has anyone broached this subject here before?

  101. JDï™ says:

    PeOiler: Scott Weiland may protest.

    I was more worried about STP Oil, because there could plausibly be a case for confusion of brands there.

  102. LMHF#1 says:

    leadfarmer:
    Sure we can analyze that one play all we want but in the end if you score one goal against the Pens who are not playing their starting goalie you are not going to win.

    Absolutely.

    People are making more note of it than usual due to the ease with which the media and others could go on some sort of rant about Yakupov’s defensive play when that would be inappropriate.

  103. maudite says:

    For the win! Why isn’t this thread shutdown? It can get no better than that.

    Unwashed Oilfan:
    So, I woke up on the sofa to jeans on the floor in the kitchen.Tried them on, nope, not mine.Wine bottles everywhere, my head hurts real bad.Checked TSN for U-17 score, shit, we lost to Russia in shootout.Ticket stub in my pocket.Receipt from a sports bar in other pocket.Stripper posters on the floor by my shoes.Naked woman in my bed.WTF happened last night?I can see a boob.It’s a nice one.She looks keepable.Okay Dave, stop staring….who is she?We lost to the Pens?Why is Netflix on login screen in the bedroom?LT, I have a problem.Why do I feel like I tried to eat a grilled cheese sandwich last night?

  104. G Money says:

    RexLibris,

    Sounds vaguely familiar. Didn’t it come up that time Woodguy was being a dick and told Bookije to fuck off?

  105. Bulging Twine says:

    “Unless you’re Taylor Hall, who just goes and grabs the puck and does it himself.”

    The Pittsburgh D backed up a couple of times BEFORE Hall even got the puck, they saw he was going to get it and started backing up, respecting/fearing his speed. One time Hall got the puck, looked up ice for a pass and seemed a little surprised that they had already backed up almost to their own blue line, so he put on the jets and transported the puck into the Ozone

  106. elgruntus says:

    G Money:
    bill needle,

    They got beaten by a better team and four goalposts.

    and a shattered piece of lumber on an open net courtesy of Leon

  107. RexLibris says:

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Sounds vaguely familiar.Didn’t it come up that time Woodguy was being a dick and told Bookije to fuck off?

    I think it was the time WG said Petry was too soft and they should’ve kept Fistric.

    Or maybe the time WG said Monahan’s sh% was sustainable.

  108. JDï™ says:

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Sounds vaguely familiar.Didn’t it come up that time Woodguy was being a dick and told Bookije to fuck off?

    http://i.imgur.com/3dGq4z5.gifv

  109. Water Fire says:

    I wonder how Sekeras injury affected his training? He may be behind all season. I wonder if he’s 100 % and if there are any longer term implications?

  110. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy: But you are seeing things that others are not and the numbers don’t support it either.

    You’re on a bit of an island here.

    I think Davidson is getting 2nd pair based on foot speed.

    What about the relative corsi thats twice as bad as any other defender on the team?

    You’ve been making the arguement that corsi is the best determining factor for defencemen to me for a long while.

    That just gets thrown out now that it doesn’t flatter a guy that everyone wants to see succeed?

  111. Bos8 says:

    Seems to me that when one goes from a ‘Dick’ to a ‘Prick’, that should be acknowledged and deemed progress.

  112. verdad2.0 says:

    Losers lose. That virtually all of it. But it especially describes this utterly over-rated core.
    Last night, like so many nights, was a case of the presumed Oiler leaders never showing up to actually win a hockey game.
    Don’t understand why so many on this board will not acknowledge this?

    Trade for Lee Stempniak , if OEL is not available.

    Chiarelli is the real culprit. An addled ditherer. And add to the dysfunction the failings of this over-rated coach. Tippett is doing more with less, explain? Claude Julien? The list is long.

    If the longstanding belief is that the Oilers have offensive talent whey do they never win?
    Ok, pitiful defense. Whose fauit is that? Chiarelli mostly.

    Give a week to fix this , or fire him.

  113. Gordies Elbow says:

    Water Fire:
    I wonder how Sekeras injury affected his training? He may be behind all season. I wonder if he’s 100 % and if there are any longer term implications?

    I’d say new coach, new system, additional responsibilities are a bigger impact. That said, he’s a #2-3, and is being played as a #1, generally. As far as I’m concerned, he’s playing within the expected parameters of a #2-3.

  114. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy,

    Respectfully submit ( das paddle)

  115. Pouzar says:

    I think Nurse is the Oilers best d-man but that’s just me.

    *runs away*
    *starts new scrapbook*

  116. Pouzar says:

    Chris Wescott ‏@TheChrisWescott 4h4 hours ago
    #Oilers goaltending prospect Laurent Brossoit made 30 saves last night in 2-1 @condors win. 2 shutouts in 6 GP & .921 save percentage so far

  117. Loyal2theoil says:

    Unwashed Oilfan,

    Oh btw, when you asked me if it was Davidson who had to playa lower calibre of hockey when he was about to be drafted yyou were correct.

    “Red Line: One of the most intriguing prospect stories in the draft is that of Brandon Davidson. After being unable to afford AAA hockey, Davidson flew under the radar playing AA, and only started getting some legitimate exposure last season. Fast forward to today, and Davidson has established himself as a strong defenseman for the Regina Pats who has not only played tremendous defense, but also chipped in on offense as well. Given his unheralded path, it’s tough to forecast how much more potential is left in the tank, but he’s certainly deserving of a Top 60 pick at this point.”

    Credit to Red Line and Lowetide’s post over at Oilersnation.

  118. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot,

    You’ve been making the arguement that corsi is the best determining factor for defencemen to me for a long while.

    That just gets thrown out now that it doesn’t flatter a guy that everyone wants to see succeed?

    No.

    I have actually been arguing that corsi is poor for evaluating Dmen.

    Maybe Gmoney can chime in here because I’ve discussed it mostly with him.

    Here’s a link to a comment I made at Lowetide on Oct 31st

    We’ve always thought that CF% wasn’t a good tool for evaluating Dmen. We gotta find someway of figuring out how they aid the offence though.

    So there’s me, not a week ago, saying Corsi is poor for evaluating Dmen.

    Also,

    Here’s another link to a comment where I kick around the idea of a different metric to evaluate Dmen

    That was Sept 11 of this year.

    I could go dig up more, but you get the idea.

    Are you prepared now to retract this statement:?

    You’ve been making the arguement that corsi is the best determining factor for defencemen to me for a long while.
    That just gets thrown out now that it doesn’t flatter a guy that everyone wants to see succeed?

  119. Woodguy says:

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Sounds vaguely familiar.Didn’t it come up that time Woodguy was being a dick and told Bookije to fuck off?

    Right after I pumped corsi’s tires for evaluating Dmen and put Nurse on my opening night top pairing.

  120. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: Right after I pumped corsi’s tires for evaluating Dmen and put Nurse on my opening night top pairing.

    Wait, was that you that said McDavid should be on a line with Hall opening night against St. Louis?

  121. McSorley33 says:

    I am a glass half full guy and that was the best our D looked all year.

    There were 5 actual D-men out there….everyone in here and around the NHL knows who the odd duck back there is now.

    As others have commented, the use of this one remaining albatross is most confusing. When Justin is healthy, T Mac will have a very tough time explaining the presence of Eric Gyba in the lineup.

    Indeed, curious to see what Reinhart would look like without a partner dicing up the puck into thousands of pieces.

    I an not naive to say are great….but they can actually get to dump ins and loose pucks and then clear the zone.

    Gazdic did not play….yet, .3rd and 4th line still do not look like they are a serious threat to score…..and tha Pens D is not scaring anyone.

    Goaltending was good.

    Hated the trade for Hendricks ( I admit it ) but how is it this soon to be 35 year old player looks FAR superior to our bottom 6 forwards?

    If you continually get caught from behind trying to carry the puck through the neutral zone, how can you be a threat to score, Teddy Purcell?

  122. G Money says:

    Woodguy,
    Bank Shot,

    Yeah, I’m not sure why it would be argued that WG somehow argues that Corsi or RelCorsi are such great measures of defensemen.

    It’s used because it’s the most widely available measure we’ve got (unless you want to use boxcars and +-), but it always comes with a caveat.

    Of late, WG has been using high danger scoring chances as a measure of defensive play. For reasons I’ve articulated, I like my own version of Dangerous Fenwick.

    But those measure just the defensive side of the equation (by all those measures, Reinhart has been excellent).

    Measuring the contribution to the O side remains tough. CF/60 and HDSC/60 seem to do an OK job. By those measures, Reinhart is not good, to no-one’s surprise.

    But that still means there’s no one measure that works for defensemen. That shouldn’t surprise anyone.

    WG and I have been brainstorming ideas around how we come up with better measures, but neither of us has made much headway (and I’d also say no one else really has either, as the link that Rex posted earlier addresses).

  123. The Hermit says:

    Dicks, pussies, and asshole relationships explained

    http://youtu.be/y2GwrR-4Q9E

  124. leadfarmer says:

    RexLibris: Wait, was that you that said McDavid should be on a line with Hall opening night against St. Louis?

    No he already traded Hall a long time ago.

  125. Centre of attention says:

    This post will get me tarred and feathered, but here I go:

    Is it weird that I want to see Schultz back soon and have him slot into Grybas spot?

    So far Gryba has provided more PIMs then actual defensive help. For every big hit he throws or cycle he busts, a goal against goes in. For every forward he stands up at the blue line, he gets walked by another. For every errant slapper he takes in the offensive zone, he botches a breakout pass to match.

    Schultz is FAR from perfect, but his skill set could elevate Reinhart into being the best he can be.

    Classic “hang back and hold down the fort” player type combined with “join the rush and make this a 3-on-2 with Hallsy” type player could be exactly what this team needs.

    When is Schultz due back anyways? You know this D core is weak when you miss the Justin f*cking Schultz’s of the world….

  126. Woodguy says:

    Was just looking at the Sept thread I linked to.

    The metric I was messing around with was Scoring Chances Against/60 divided by Corsi Against/60

    The idea was that this ratio would tell you how many corsi events become scoring chances when this player is on the ice.

    Kind of a “keep em to the outside” ratio.

    So if a player had 40% in this ratio, then 40% of corsi events become scoring chances.

    The lower the number the better.

    Just ran this year’s Dmen and C’s.

    Darnell.Nurse 0.405
    Griffin.Reinhart 0.433
    Andrej.Sekera 0.438
    Oscar.Klefbom 0.445
    Eric.Gryba 0.468
    Brandon.Davidson 0.473
    Justin.Schultz 0.480
    Mark.Fayne 0.497
    Andrew.Ference 0.541

    Mark.Letestu 0.436
    Ryan.Nugent-Hopkins 0.465
    Anton.Lander 0.471
    Connor.McDavid 0.487

    I think a metric like this (any metric that uses scoring chances or corsi against) tends to favour 3rd pairing Dmen because they play more often against the “puck optional” players.

    However, there are less puck optional lines in the NHL, but they are still there.

    Mr. Fayne doesn’t look good.

    Nurse looks pretty excellent.

    For whatever this metric is worth. I’m not sure, but its interesting to look at.

  127. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention:
    This post will get me tarred and feathered, but here I go:

    Is it weird that I want to see Schultz back soon and have him slot into Grybas spot?

    So far Gryba has provided more PIMs then actual defensive help. For every big hit he throws or cycle he busts, a goal against goes in. For every forward he stands up at the blue line, he gets walked by another. For every errant slapper he takes in the offensive zone, he botches a breakout pass to match.

    Schultz is FAR from perfect, but his skill set could elevate Reinhart into being the best he can be.

    Classic “hang back and hold down the fort” player type combined with “join the rush and make this a 3-on-2 with Hallsy” type player could be exactly what this team needs.

    When is Schultz due back anyways? You know this D core is weak when you miss the Justin f*cking Schultz’s of the world….

    I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all.

  128. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy:
    Bank Shot,

    You’ve been making the arguement that corsi is the best determining factor for defencemen to me for a long while.


    That just gets thrown out now that it doesn’t flatter a guy that everyone wants to see succeed?

    No.

    I have actually been arguing that corsi is poor for evaluating Dmen.

    Maybe Gmoney can chime in here because I’ve discussed it mostly with him.

    Here’s a link to a comment I made at Lowetide on Oct 31st

    We’ve always thought that CF% wasn’t a good tool for evaluating Dmen. We gotta find someway of figuring out how they aid the offence though.

    Are you prepared now to retract this statement:?

    All the Weber versus Ellis debates were based heavily on corsi.

    Marincin being billed as a potential first pairing defender falls into that same vein as well.

    So I won’t retract the statement. I will admit you have been exploring different metrics lately.

    I like the new metric G Money has come up with but the samples there are still very small and I think we run into
    A lot of the same problems trying to tease an individual’s performance out of external factors that involve Qual comp, linemates and role usage. It still remains to be seen if the new metric will stand the test of time.

    I’m not saying Reinhart has zero redeeming value as a defender, I just don’t see him being a very effective NHL defenseman at this time. He’s a solely defensive guy that hasn’t shown he can be effective in big minutes on the PK or in shutting down the other teams top lines.

    Right now Reinhart is struggling in a reduced role.

  129. Woodguy says:

    Darnell.Nurse 0.405
    Griffin.Reinhart 0.433
    Andrej.Sekera 0.438
    Oscar.Klefbom 0.445
    Eric.Gryba 0.468
    Brandon.Davidson 0.473
    Justin.Schultz 0.480
    Mark.Fayne 0.497
    Andrew.Ference 0.541

    This almost mirror how McLellan has been handing out TOI.

    Hmmmmmmm

  130. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot,

    So I won’t retract the statement.

    You accused me of not using a metric because it didn’t fit my narrative.

    That was false and you need to retract it.

  131. Centre of attention says:

    Woodguy,

    Nurse is just a wonderful player isn’t he? 20 years young to boot.

    Watching him box out a penguin on the boards in the first period last night, toss a silky little flick-pass that lead to the best break out I’ve seen all week made my poor heart flutter with excitement.

    There is hope.

  132. Woodguy says:

    Same exercise as above, except using High Danger Scoring Chances/60 per Corsi/60

    Griffin.Reinhart 0.175
    Mark.Fayne 0.179
    Andrej.Sekera 0.195
    Oscar.Klefbom 0.198
    Brandon.Davidson 0.215
    Darnell.Nurse 0.216
    Justin.Schultz 0.220
    Eric.Gryba 0.248
    Andrew.Ference 0.295

    Ryan.Nugent-Hopkins 0.183
    Mark.Letestu 0.188
    Anton.Lander 0.235
    Connor.McDavid 0.243

    Strange how Nurse falls way down compared to scoring chances. Same with Fayne, but the other way.

    Might have something to do with sample size.

    Interesting to look at nonetheless.

  133. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention:
    Woodguy,

    Nurse is just a wonderful player isn’t he? 20 years young to boot.

    Watching him box out a penguin on the boards in the first period last night, toss a silky little flick-pass that lead to the best break out I’ve seen all week made my poor heart flutter with excitement.

    There is hope.

    Watch him physically beat on other players than then take the puck is something I’ve been waiting a long time to see.

    Too long since an Oiler Dman did that with any regularity.

  134. Centre of attention says:

    Woodguy,

    The way he leans on guys, then releases so they fall back a bit with their own momentum, and lose hold of the puck on the boards is so smart. So damn smart. After they fall back, he reaches around with that giant wing span of his and pokes the puck free just like that.

    He’s got soft hands with the puck for such a nasty fellow as well.

    And to think, he’s only going to get better. Imagine.

  135. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy: Was just looking at the Sept thread I linked to.
    The metric I was messing around with was Scoring Chances Against/60 divided by Corsi Against/60
    The idea was that this ratio would tell you how many corsi events become scoring chances when this player is on the ice.
    Kind of a “keep em to the outside” ratio.
    So if a player had 40% in this ratio, then 40% of corsi events become scoring chances.
    The lower the number the better.

    This might make a D man who allows more than league average scoring chances per 60 but an even higher amount of corsi attempts ( lots of chasing the play in their own zone) look OK.

    Eric Gryba by this metric is better than league average. Jared Cowen is elite.

    On the other hand it punishes guys like Orlov who allows 22 SCA/60 and 42 CA/60.

    Jeff petry is allowing close to league average in scoring chances against but is allowing almost 6.5 CA/60 less than league average so it makes him look bad.

    Its another stat where we just keep chasing our tail.

  136. bendelson says:

    A tip of the cap to JDI (visualize the umlate).
    I thought you were in rare form in last night’s thread. Lots of energy. Played a smart game. Very entertaining. Way to step it up with Connor out of the line-up! Clutch performance, my friend.
    ___

    0-4 at Rexall this season.
    You are starting to irk me, bjookie.

  137. Bulging Twine says:

    One factor MacLellan surely is looking at when assembling his D lineup is the willingness/ability to ‘jump up into the play”. Gryba does that quite regularly. Gryba actually seems to be more involved in the Ozone than most.

    McLellan clearly favours aggressive Dmen.

  138. Woodguy says:

    frjohnk: This might make a D man who allows more than league average scoring chances per 60 but an even higher amount of corsi attempts ( lots of chasing the play in their own zone) look OK.

    Eric Gryba by this metric is better than league average.Jared Cowen is elite.

    On the other hand it punishes guys like Orlov who allows 22 SCA/60 and 42 CA/60.

    Jeff petry is allowing close to league average in scoring chances against but is allowing almost 6.5 CA/60 less than league average so it makes him look bad.

    Its another stat where we just keep chasing our tail.

    I think this another stat that needs to be used within a team only.

    Just like using straight SCA/60 every NJD Dman is better than every MTL Dman.

  139. Woodguy says:

    frjohnk,

    And also I envision a list of 4-5 metrics to evaluate different aspects of the Dman’ game, with no one stat being the end all/be all.

  140. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy:
    frjohnk,

    And also I envision a list of 4-5 metrics to evaluate different aspects of the Dman’ game, with no one stat being the end all/be all.

    I wonder how it would look if we gave a higher weighting to scoring chances against?

  141. Centre of attention says:

    Bulging Twine:
    One factor MacLellan surely is looking at when assembling his D lineup is the willingness/ability to ‘jump up into the play”.Gryba does that quite regularly.Gryba actually seems to be more involved in the Ozone than most.

    McLellan clearly favours aggressive Dmen.

    I do see Gryba jumping up. I just wish it was Schultz there instead, because he might be able to actually do something with the puck once it gets up ice. Gryba usually just throws a half-clapper off the high glass behind the net. Sometimes resulting in a jail break heading back into our zone, and a bag skate for all Oilers involved who just skated 150 feet into the offensive zone only to have to double back.

  142. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy:

    You accused me of not using a metric because it didn’t fit my narrative.

    That was false and you need to retract it.

    I’ll amend it to state that you have altered your idea of what makes a good defense man in the last couple of months rather than changing it for Reinhart.

    But the point remains is that this is just another single stat that is being used to push the overall value of a defender, and this is pretty much the same thing as when you were arguing against Weber and in favor of Marincin.

    You can say that my view of Reinhart doesn’t match up with a stat that is extremely small in sample size, and isn’t even really comparable to any of the defencemen on the Oilers that have played a full season as a single game can move such a stat dramatically in a ten game sample. That’s about it.

    I’ve been “On an island” before in my assessment of Weber and Marincin because I didn’t think corsi did justice to their abilities so I don’t mind being there.

  143. Water Fire says:

    Perhaps as Sather did Chiarelli is going to keep a few characters around. Gryba is the new Don Jackson. As a kid I was always impressed /amazed how he would smile at guys after a fight often bleeding from a smashed up mouth.
    #maniacOilers

  144. Centre of attention says:

    Watched Chris Pronger do the preface to the Habs-Bruins game tonight for his Hall of Fame induction.

    It was a kind of “what it takes to be a hall of famer” story thing. Made me pretty sad and jealous. After they ran the clip of him going one-on-one beating Cam ward as an Oiler, then him hoisting the cup with the next clip as a Duck…

    *sigh*

  145. böök¡je says:

    Steve Smith is a unicorn sloth.

    I won’t retract that statement, based on its the Internet.

  146. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot,

    I’ll amend it to state that you have altered your idea of what makes a good defense man in the last couple of months rather than changing it for Reinhart.

    Thank you, kind of.

    It hasn’t been a couple of months.

    I haven’t been this “one stat” crusader you are making me out to be.

    But the point remains is that this is just another single stat that is being used to push the overall value of a defender, and this is pretty much the same thing as when you were arguing against Weber and in favor of Marincin.

    The Weber thing was an analysis of Cmen corsi with each Weber and Ellis with TOI and zone starts taken into context.

    You are wrong that it was a “one stat” thing.

    I’m not sure of which Marincin thing you are talking about.

    Its really weird because of how active I’ve been in looking for different ways to quantify different aspects of Dmen’s game because their roles are so varied.

    I have no idea where you get this “one stat” idea from , but its not from me.

    When making a post about “one stat” in particular how long of disclaimer would you like indicating that “one stat” shouldn’t be used as the end-all be-all?

  147. magisterrex says:

    böök¡je:
    Steve Smith is a unicorn sloth.

    I won’t retract that statement, based on its the Internet.

    Assuming, of course, that Steve Smith is his real name, and not “Steve Smith”.

  148. Bank Shot says:

    The Weber thing was an analysis of Cmen corsi with each Weber and Ellis with TOI and zone starts taken into context.

    You are wrong that it was a “one stat” thing.

    I’m not sure of which Marincin thing you are talking about.

    Its really weird because of how active I’ve been in looking for different ways to quantify different aspects of Dmen’s game because their roles are so varied.

    I have no idea where you get this “one stat” idea from , but its not from me.

    When making a post about “one stat” in particular how long of disclaimer would you like indicating that “one stat” shouldn’t be used as the end-all be-all?

    You definitely pumped Maricnin’s tires on a regular basis.

    It definitely wasn’t based on his boxcars. Corsi was the only thing he had going for him.

    If you say that the Weber vs. Ellis comparison wasn’t grounded almost entirely in a difference in Corsi then I think you are being dishonest with yourself.

  149. spoiler says:

    I find it somewhat ironic that the coach of the Leafs is advocating for bigger nets.

    Seems sort of like Burke demanding the NHL upgrade their advanced stats page.

    The talk above is the same as happens in this household.

    Start calling interference etc like it was called in the prior CBA.

    Fix video replay.

  150. jm363561 says:

    bill needle:
    When three youngsters and a backup goalie who wasn’t in the NHL last year keep Crosby, Malkin and company to two goals, and the Oilers still lose, it appears the problem is with the offence rather than the defence.
    Even without McDavid, the Oilers have the horses up front to score more than one goal on Pittsburgh’s equally no-name defence and a goalie I’ve never heard of.
    I also question the statement that the Oilers are miles from competing with good teams. They competed with Pittsburgh pretty well, and almost tied it in the late going. They’re doing fine in the competing department most games. It’s the winning (and getting a loser point at least) that they’re falling short.

    The team is 5 – 5 in its last ten games. Of the five defeats:
    Kings – goal review went against us in the last minute
    Wild – leading with less than 5 minutes to go
    Flames – tying with seconds to go
    Penguins – beaten by the posts

    Frustrating, disappointing, but at least we have not had to watch too much garbage time. There is definite progress and still hope.

  151. Woodguy says:

    Bank Shot: You definitely pumped Maricnin’s tires on a regular basis.

    It definitely wasn’t based on his boxcars.Corsi was the only thing he had going for him.

    If you say that the Weber vs. Ellis comparison wasn’t grounded almost entirely in a difference in Corsi then I think you are being dishonest with yourself.

    Marincin also had zone entry denials.

    I have all the data from last year and his rate is top 2% in the NHL.

    Also,

    Corsi on its own isn’t a good metric for Dmen.

    The entire Weber-Ellis thing was detailed WOWY with each C on the Preds taking zone starts into account.

    If you think that’s “just looking at one stat” you are being dishonest with yourself.

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