OILERS NO. 15 PROSPECT (winter 2015): ZIYAT PAIGIN

One of the encouraging developments in amateur procurement in the last few years involves adding kids from Russia. Edmonton avoided the area like the plague for a long time, but after the Nail Yakupov selection in 2012, four men (Daniil Zharkov, Bogdan Yakimov, Anton Slepyshev and Ziyat Paigan) have been added to the team.

Paigan was a fascinating selection because of his potential and his late selection. A home run swing that late is the kind of thing many fans have been screaming for, and has been more prevalent since Craig MacTavish returned to the fold. How good is Paigan? Early and encouraging days.

PREVIOUSLY NO. 15 ON THE WINTER LIST

  • December 2004: R Troy Bodie (159) (GM: Kevin Lowe) 
  • December 2005: R Colin McDonald (145) (GM: Kevin Lowe) 
  • December 2006: D Jeff Petry (344) (GM: Kevin Lowe) 
  • December 2007: R Colin McDonald (145) (GM: Kevin Lowe) 
  • December 2008: G Devan Dubnyk (254) (GM: Kevin Lowe) 
  • December 2009: D Alex Plante (10) (GM: Kevin Lowe)
  • December 2010: G Olivier Roy (0) (GM: Steve Tambellini)
  • December 2011: D Brandon Davidson (31) (GM: Steve Tambellini)
  • December 2012: D Joey Laleggia (0) (GM: Steve Tambellini)
  • December 2013: R Tyler Pitlick (27) (GM: Steve Tambellini)
  • December 2014: D William Lagesson (0) (GM: Craig MacTavish)

Lots of stories here from the Kevin Lowe era, including Troy Bodie. He is one of the most unusual success stories of the century from the Oilers draft table, successful outside the organization (Anaheim, then Toronto). Devan Dubnyk and Jeff Petry were good prospects but appeared at No.15 during a time when they were either too new to really evaluate (Petry, a few months after his draft) or where progress seemed to be very slow (Dubnyk, Colin McDonald also falls in that category).

Recent seasons have been less substantial, but even with that Brandon Davidson appears to be emerging as we speak. The lesson here is ‘wait five years’ and that is something we have discussed many times.

paigin svoboda

WHAT THEY SAID ON DRAFT DAY

  • The Black Book: His play at the tournament has confimed his upside as well as the need for further development. He is still a bit of a project, on some games he shows flashes of good puck moving ability for such a tall defenseman, in others he struggles with easy plays.He may still be able to improve on some things training with pro, like on the accuracy of his powerful slap shot, but his game needs to evolve rather than a finishing touch.
  • ISS: “Like this player. Stay at home d-men that keeps his game simple and boxes out well. PK work was strong all tournament, willing to block shots. Big bodied physical defender with a long reach and good skating ability. Knows his limitations and doesn’t try to do too much. Strong performance at WJC helped move him into our rankings for 2015 NHL draft”.
  • Craig Button ranked him No. 86 in the 2015 draft.

PREVIOUS RANKINGS

  • Summer 2015: No. 21
  • Winter 2015: No. 15

This is far too early for Paigin to be this high, but the numbers suggest we are dealing with a very good hockey player. His NHLE via Rob Vollman puts him at 82gp, 8-22-30, and the KHL is a strong league. His trade to Sochi appears to have unlocked the potential implied in the scouting reports we read on draft day. He is playing almost 15 minutes a night currently and getting power-play time. A very good story. He is playing with former Oilers defender Alexei Semenov in Sochi.

2015-16

  • Swedish Poster: He sticks out right away with how tall and lanky. Looked real skinny though part of it might be Sochi’s gear they were wearing an all black gear and every player looked pretty slim. However despite his size he’s surprisingly agile, I had a similar reaction as I had when getting my first real viewing of Nurse where you marvel over how agile he is at that size, he’s not nearly as explosive as Nurse but a real smooth skater.
  • More Swedish Poster: He showed off some serious hands as well, something I didn’t expect at all considering his junior numbers. Could ofc be Andy Sutton moments as well and not a regular thing but he pulled off the Mats Sundin style extralong dangle with his giant reach. He also has a solid shot. A couple of dodgy moments when trying too much with the first pass but generally moved the puck well.
  • Final Swedish Poster: Defensively he was in good position and showed off a good stick. Crazy reach. Not very physical, still very much a teenage body, has that uncoordinated flimsiness you see in lanky teenage boys, but he seems unafraid at least.

THE FUTURE

Paigin is the sixth defenseman among the top 15, and the fifth left-handed blue (Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, Jones, Paigin). Edmonton spent much of the Stu MacGregor fretting over a lack of quality defensive prospects, but that concern in 2010+ made turn this area into a strength in the future.

Paigin turns 21 in February (he is four days younger than Darnell Nurse, who was drafted two years earlier). Based on his play in the KHL, I think we could see some kind of aggressive move, either a trade or signing, in the next few months (depending on his contract status). Edmonton has a very long list of RFA defensemen (Justin Schultz, Brandon Davidson, Martin Gernat, Jordan Oesterle, David Musil) as well as UFAs Eric Gryba and Brad Hunt, so we could see a tremendous turnover this spring and summer.

Peter Chiarelli was the GM on Paigin’s draft day, so he would certainly know the player and be familiar with his skill set.

 

  • 6.06, 210
  • 26, 3-9-12 42SOG
  • 12:41 TOI/game

 

THE 2015 DRAFT

  • Connor McDavid, No. 1 overall. Incredible talent took about four games to kick out the jams. He is still recovering from injury, Oilers fans anxious for his return. No. 1 prospect, Winter 2015.
  • D Caleb Jones, No. 117 overall. The smooth skating defender has been a revelation, displaying a nice range of skills in his early WHL career. No. 13 prospect, Winter 2015.
  • D Ethan Bear, No. 124 overall. Surprised he fell as he did in this year’s draft (Button had him third round, I had him second). Either way, he’s an Oilers prospect and things are progressing very well—he is on pace to score 22 goals in the WHL this year. No. 9 prospect, Winter 2015.
  • D John Marino, No. 154 overall. Mobile offensive defender had an immediate impact with Tri-City Storm of the USHL. Cooled off, but a promising first quarter. A candidate for the Winter Top 20.
  • G Miroslav Svoboda, No. 208 overall. Struggled in the Cze-2 league early but recent efforts have been very strong. Early days. A candidate for the Winter Top 20.
  • D Ziyat Paigin, No. 209 overall. A transfer to Sochi unlocked this player and he has been playing a feature role. One of several defensive picks from this draft who are tracking very well. No. 15 prospect, Winter 2015.

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84 Responses to "OILERS NO. 15 PROSPECT (winter 2015): ZIYAT PAIGIN"

  1. stush18 says:

    Now that’s a draft.

    Wasn’t everyone rather worried about Chiarelli and his ability to draft? Seem to recall a lot of angst

    Paigan is a little older, so Im not hold g my breath on this prospect. Hong he comes through however

  2. delooper says:

    So if Sather’s painting is The Last Supper, who is Judas? It looks a lot like Ron MacLean to me… but it has to be someone else?

  3. Bad Seed says:

    delooper,

    Was Lafarge around then?

  4. Alpine says:

    stush18:
    Now that’s a draft.

    Wasn’t everyone rather worried about Chiarelli and his ability to draft? Seem to recall a lot of angst

    Paigan is a little older, so Im not hold g my breath on this prospect. Hong he comes through however

    Chiarelli honestly doesn’t have a great draft record, but it’s alright after the putrid years of 07-09. Colborne, Hamill, and Caron weren’t terrible bets where they were picked. They’ve found some useful players outside high picks as well.
    And even though he’s signing off on these picks, scouting has a lot of impact of what these picks are on every team. They also moved away from picking coke machines high after 2009 anyways.

  5. Colieo87 says:

    Okay I understand this is all hypothetical. but Lt or someone can you explain to me. how the expansion draft going to effect the oilers for the rookies. say possible 2017-18 or a year after?

  6. Chris says:

    Made the trip from Calgary yesterday to visit my ailing Granny and watch the Oilers live for the first time since 1996. Brought my wife and two boys (12 and 10). My oldest boy is a San Jose fan, my youngest is a Penguins fan. My boys have laughed at me for years because it seems like every time I turn on the TV to watch the Oilers, they either lose, or they’re ahead when I turn it on, and eventually lose. They joked about bringing a sign that would point at me and say “Blame him for the loss!” I decided to buy good seats, far more expensive than I should have bought (front row, right in front of the ‘Popeye’s’ sign just inside the Rangers’s blue line, periods 1 and 3).

    Anyhow, the Sather thing was pretty cool, although they all had their backs to our side of the arena (I guess someone’s going to have their backs). It was awesome to see all the old boys (minus Gretz…crap). The painting was…wow (not in a good way). To the game.

    By eye, both goalers were struggling. The second period goals, along with the distance shot that squeaked through in the third) were pretty weak from ice level on Nilsson. Hall was flying, and ‘the move’ by Drai happened right in front of us, and it was awesome. Anyhow, long story short, it was an awesome game, and both my boys and wife had a great time. Both boys are now solid Oilers fans (my youngest woke us up in the middle of the night still celebrating Hall’s second goal in his sleep). I just hope they don’t expect those kinds of seats next time!

  7. Mr DeBakey says:

    “Nice pass from Ziyat Paigin, and an also-nice finish by Mikhail Anisin for HK Sochi against Ugra! ”

    That’s the son of Vyacheslav Anisin who played for the USSR in the Summit Series in ’72 and ’74.
    In ’72 he was on The Kid Line.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    “Nice pass from Ziyat Paigin, and an also-nice finish by Mikhail Anisin for HK Sochi against Ugra! ”

    That’s the son of Vyacheslav Anisin who played for the USSR in the Summit Series in ’72 and ’74.
    In ’72 he was on The Kid Line.

    I remember him.

  9. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Alpine: Chiarelli honestly doesn’t have a great draft record, but it’s alright after the putrid years of 07-09. Colborne, Hamill, and Caron weren’t terrible bets where they were picked. They’ve found some useful players outside high picks as well.
    And even though he’s signing off on these picks, scouting has a lot of impact of what these picks are on every team. They also moved away from picking coke machines high after 2009 anyways.

    Chiarelli was able to snag Colborne at 16, MacT took him at 3!!

    Side note: Draisaitl 2P from Colborne’s career high. Sure miss our dashing friend, oy vey

  10. geowal says:

    Since he was mentioned in the draft recap here:

    Petry just scored for Habs. Montreal announcer: “Explain to me again why Edmonton gave him away for practically nothing?”

    Why indeed.

  11. smellyglove says:

    Chris,

    That’s an awesome story and why we worship ‘the game’.

  12. Gordies Elbow says:

    geowal:
    Since he was mentioned in the draft recap here:

    Petry just scored for Habs.Montreal announcer: “Explain to me again why Edmonton gave him away for practically nothing?”

    Why indeed.

    Because he didn’t want to be here, and his agent set him up for free agency.

    I’d have done the same thing, after a year of Dallas Eakins. Then, healthy scratched? Yep, outta here.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Chris,

    Agree with Smelly. Thanks for sharing.

  14. Lowetide says:

    Gordies Elbow: Because he didn’t want to be here, and his agent set him up for free agency.

    I’d have done the same thing, after a year of Dallas Eakins. Then, healthy scratched? Yep, outta here.

    The word I have heard is that he wanted a longer term deal and the Oilers wanted him to prove himself. That is another reason Chiarelli is here.

  15. v4ance says:

    Watching Hall’s career right now, I recalled his performances at the Memorial Cup.

    Is anyone else struck by the similarities in his utter dominance right now compared to his junior playoff career? He can literally generate scoring chances at will against any opponent.

    We see so many elite players at the junior level fail to translate that into NHL success so it’s even more amazing to see the same head and shoulders performance translate from the junior division to the senior division like Hall is doing currently.

    Savor it. Enjoy it. Ride the wave!

  16. geowal says:

    Gordies Elbow: Because he didn’t want to be here, and his agent set him up for free agency.

    I’d have done the same thing, after a year of Dallas Eakins. Then, healthy scratched? Yep, outta here.

    Let’s suppose that’s true, that doesn’t preclude managing him differently, perhaps trading earlier to net a better return if management knew he wouldn’t re-sign (which we don’t).

  17. Ryan says:

    v4ance:
    Watching Hall’s career right now, I recalled his performances at the Memorial Cup.

    Is anyone else struck by the similarities in his utter dominance right now compared to his junior playoff career?He can literally generate scoring chances at will against any opponent.

    We see so many elite players at the junior level fail to translate that into NHL success so it’s even more amazing to see the same head and shoulders performance translate from the junior division to the senior division like Hall is doing currently.

    Savor it.Enjoy it.Ride the wave!

    If you missed it.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/why-taylor-hall-is-one-of-the-best-players-in-the-nhl/

  18. Gordies Elbow says:

    geowal: Let’s suppose that’s true, that doesn’t preclude managing him differently, perhaps trading earlier to net a better return if management knew he wouldn’t re-sign (which we don’t).

    I don’t have to suppose it’s true. It’s just simply true. Wade Arnott asked what a 1 year deal would look like, and MacTavish told him.

    Wade accepted it.

  19. Ryan says:

    geowal:
    Since he was mentioned in the draft recap here:

    Petry just scored for Habs.Montreal announcer: “Explain to me again why Edmonton gave him away for practically nothing?”

    Why indeed.

    Salt meet wound. Stop it. 🙂

  20. geowal says:

    Gordies Elbow,

    Ok. Has nothing to do with my point.

  21. Gordies Elbow says:

    geowal:
    Gordies Elbow,

    Ok. Has nothing to do with my point.

    Yeah, you’re point is that it could have been handled better. So what? Petry didn’t want to be here, and isn’t here.

  22. Lowetide says:

    This isn’t the stick your dick out part of the Al Gore, gents. Please and thanks.

  23. Philosophil says:

    Chris,

    Beauty Chris. We are a similar demographic, my youngest a Maple Leaf’s fan (blaming food hormones and air pollution). Even insisted on TO players for his rod hockey game. I do enjoy winning those games with my Team Canada Players (88, 66, 91, 4, 19, 30, no 99 for some odd reason) but we bond as a result.
    As an aside, I really hope the newly immigrated to Canada get the bug and embrace the game. It’s truly woven into the fabric of Canadiana and keeps us connected.

  24. steveb12344 says:

    Why are we still crying over spilt Petry?

    We ended up with a couple draft picks, and Sekera for roughly the same price point.

    Pretty much a wash AFAIC.

    Petry is a good player, but he’s not the second coming of Nik Lidstrom.

    At 5+M AAV, he’s hardly a bargain.

  25. Lowetide says:

    steveb12344:
    Why are we still crying over spilt Petry?

    We ended up with a couple draft picks, and Sekera for roughly the same price point.

    Pretty much a wash AFAIC.

    Petry is a good player, but he’s not the second coming of Nik Lidstrom.

    At 5+M AAV, he’s hardly a bargain.

    Nurse-Sekera
    KLefbom-Petry

    That is why.

  26. Woodguy says:

    Gordies Elbow: Yeah, you’re point is that it could have been handled better. So what? Petry didn’t want to be here, and isn’t here.

    Petry is on record saying that he wanted to sign in Edmonton long term and MacT wasn’t interested.

    http://oilersnation.com/2015/10/29/jeff-petry-explains-why-he-doesn-t-play-for-the-edmonton-oilers-anymore

  27. Gordies Elbow says:

    Lowetide:
    This isn’t the stick your dick out part of the Al Gore, gents. Please and thanks.

    I agree with Geowall, that Edmonton gave Petry away for practically nothing, but I think that it was due to MacTavish making an assumption around whether a player wanted to stay, or not. I think that he assumed that Petry wanted to stay, and as Geowall pointed out, it was a poor assumption.

    That said, if you get a player that wants to leave (e.g. Pronger) what do you do? I think that MacTavish figured that he could move Petry at the end of the year, and gain back some of the asset he’d developed.

    Unfortunately, Edmonton’s team was brutal, and Petry didn’t have the value at the end of the year that MacTavish thought he would. He ended up on the losing side of both the original negotiation with Wade and then with the trade to Montreal. Montreal got a good asset, at market value when they signed him.

    I think that Geowall is right, they could have handled it better, but there is a lesson here in negotiating. One I hope that Chairelli won’t repeat.

  28. Water Fire says:

    I just saw the last supper painting. The Edmonton Oilers seem from their decisions to have no class. If Daryl Katz can tolerate these decision makers then I have to say he seems to have no class either given what a PR disaster this team has been for quite a while now with no improvement.

    I can’t think of another team choosing to do something like this (given the whole event while dear to Oiler fans was pushing the envelope on odd which Sather himself mentioned) simply based on it’s poor taste.

    Not to mention how offensive it is to many people. Is this the best they can be? I hope not. I can’t take them or the league seriously as it is given the mentality they choose.

    It’s time to start taking steps forward without mitigating them with blunders. It is ok to be good, all by its lonesome. JM2C.

    EDIT: Pretty hard to get past ‘laughing stock’ and into ‘credibility’ with entries like these.

    POST EDIT: And I don’t mean me 🙂

  29. steveb12344 says:

    Lowetide: Nurse-Sekera
    KLefbom-Petry

    That is why.

    Nurse-Subban

    Klefbom-Doughty

    That would be even better…Stupid MacT!!

  30. Gordies Elbow says:

    Woodguy: Petry is on record saying that he wanted to sign in Edmonton long term and MacT wasn’t interested.

    http://oilersnation.com/2015/10/29/jeff-petry-explains-why-he-doesn-t-play-for-the-edmonton-oilers-anymore

    I understand what has been said. It’s somewhere between

    “I challenged him to a one year contract.”

    or

    “I was outnegotiated, and didn’t understand or believe that my player would take a one year contract and then be UFA”

    If Petry wanted to remain an Oiler, it was within his, and Wade Arnott’s discretion to be so. He was a UFA, and signed where he wanted to. I can’t say as I blame him.

  31. steveb12344 says:

    Obviously i’m being a smartass, and I agree that the team would be better if we could just add JP to the existing mix.

    My point is that we didn’t get “nothing” for him. We got a couple picks and over 5 million in cap-space, which we used to get Sekera.

    I don’t think signing Petry and Sekera was ever an option.

    It sucked, but I don’t see how it’s that hard to get over it.

  32. Water Fire says:

    Gordies Elbow: I understand what has been said. It’s somewhere between

    “I challenged him to a one year contract.”

    or

    “I was outnegotiated, and didn’t understand or believe that my player would take a one year contract and then be UFA”

    If Petry wanted to remain an Oiler, it was within his, and Wade Arnott’s discretion to be so. He was a UFA, and signed where he wanted to. I can’t say as I blame him.

    The simplest view in my experience is very often closest to the truth. Petry didn’t want to leave. The biggest hole on the team now is where he played.

    Many would view that as bad management.

  33. Woodguy says:

    MacT stated “You can’t pay al your Dman $4MM!”

    MacT chose Schultz over Petry as his RHD man of the future.

    It’s really that simple.

  34. Gordies Elbow says:

    Water Fire: The simplest view in my experience is very often closest to the truth. Petry didn’t want to leave. The biggest hole on the team now is where he played.

    Many would view that as bad management.

    In the simplest view, if Petry didn’t want to leave, why go UFA when he did, and then sign with another team?

    I’d love for someone to explain the “I challenged him to a one year contract,” as opposed to the “I offered a single year not thinking they’d take it, and they did.”

    “challenged him to a one year contract?”

    Seriously?

  35. Gordies Elbow says:

    Woodguy:
    MacT stated “You can’t pay al your Dman $4MM!”

    MacT chose Schultz over Petry as his RHD man of the future.

    It’s really that simple.

    Yeah, that I can believe. MacTavish lowballed Petry, not thinking that he’d leave, and Wade was brighter than Edmonton’s management group.

    That said, Eakins or not, Petry wanted out, and the one year deal (which comes at risk to the player) should be evidence of that.

  36. Woodguy says:

    Gordies Elbow: I understand what has been said. It’s somewhere between

    “I challenged him to a one year contract.”

    or

    “I was outnegotiated, and didn’t understand or believe that my player would take a one year contract and then be UFA”

    If Petry wanted to remain an Oiler, it was within his, and Wade Arnott’s discretion to be so. He was a UFA, and signed where he wanted to. I can’t say as I blame him.

    MacT offered 2 year contract.

    Petry wanted a long term contract and MacT’s number was quite low.

    Petry’s camp saw no value in 2 years so went for a one year.

    MacT was convinced on Schultz’s ability and not-convinced on Petry.

    His inability to proper evaluate his Dmen was the cause.

  37. jp says:

    Lowetide:
    Nurse-Sekera
    KLefbom-Petry

    That is why.

    Just stop it!

    The bad men are away from the controls now. And Petry can’t be retrieved.

    Thinking about this move still really smarts for me. Nikitin and Schultz got Petry’s money. MacT and co. sat down and talked, and thought about it, and picked Nikitin AND Schultz over Petry.

    So on Monday we may see:
    Nurse-Sekera
    Nikitin-Schultz

    I wish Jeff Petry all the best.

  38. Gordies Elbow says:

    Woodguy: MacT offered 2 year contract.

    Petry wanted a long term contract and MacT’s number was quite low. Petry’s camp saw no value in 2 years so went for a one year. MacT was convinced on Schultz’s ability and not-convinced on Petry. His inability to proper evaluate his Dmen was the cause.

    As I understand it, MacTavish was trying for a 2-3 year bridge deal, and Wade walked them into a low dollar one year deal.

    The story of the “challenged him to a one year contract.” came out after, and doesn’t meet them smell test.

    If you were Petry, and saw Eakins, the team around Schultz, et. al., wouldn’t you be looking for the exit? Hell, Eller was right, they played like a junior team. Wouldn’t you have wanted to jump ship?

  39. striatic says:

    So .. That Zaiyat Paigin sure looks like a player or something.

    steveb12344: My point is that we didn’t get “nothing” for him. We got a couple picks and over 5 million in cap-space, which we used to get Sekera.

    While this is true, the 5 million in cap could have come from a lot of other places, and had it, there’s a possibility you get both Petry and Sekera.

    I think the issue for most fans isn’t that Petry got away, it was how he got away and when.

  40. striatic says:

    Rangers lead flames 1-0 to end the first .. and it matters!

  41. Water Fire says:

    Woodguy: MacT offered 2 year contract.

    Petry wanted a long term contract and MacT’s number was quite low.

    Petry’s camp saw no value in 2 years so went for a one year.

    MacT was convinced on Schultz’s ability and not-convinced on Petry.

    His inability to proper evaluate his Dmen was the cause.

    Agreed. The UFA has the stick if at all good, it’s why they get paid. For a manager to let a competent player in a very hard to fill position go and end up with a hole, might, cost you your job?

    And who says you can’t pay all top 4 D 4 million if they are quality? I say you might have to. You can’t overpay weak players and that leaves the money to pay the competent.

  42. frjohnk says:

    striatic:
    Rangers lead flames 1-0 to end the first .. and it matters!

    My second favorite team is winning, which happens to be any team that plays against Calgary.

  43. Gordies Elbow says:

    frjohnk,

    I love that team. Go team!

  44. LadiesloveSmid says:

    striatic,

    that 5M could have come from just not signing Nikitin!!

  45. striatic says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    striatic,

    that 5M could have come from just not signing Nikitin!!

    Or moving Schultz. But mostly, yeah, not signing Nikitin.

    Or Ference for that matter.

    Lots of places.

  46. frjohnk says:

    Water Fire: And who says you can’t pay all top 4 D 4 million if they are quality?

    Right now the Oilers are paying 11.3M to Fayne, Ference and Nikitin.

    That’s an average of 3.77M and none of them are top 6.

  47. Lowetide says:

    I remember driving down the road, near the deadline, MacT on the radio, the host said ‘Petry is going to be a great add for someone’ and MacT agreed excitedly. If there had been a cliff, I would have taken it.

  48. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    I remember driving down the road, near the deadline, MacT on the radio, the host said ‘Petry is going to be a great add for someone’ and MacT agreed excitedly. If there had been a cliff, I would have taken it.

    I didn’t care for that either. I suppose he was trying to inflate trade value, but still. Anyways, it’s like Yogi Berra said: When you come to a cliff in the road, take it.”

  49. Woodguy says:

    Gordies Elbow: As I understand it, MacTavish was trying for a 2-3 year bridge deal, and Wade walked them into a low dollar one year deal.

    The story of the “challenged him to a one year contract.” came out after, and doesn’t meet them smell test.

    If you were Petry, and saw Eakins, the team around Schultz, et. al., wouldn’t you be looking for the exit? Hell, Eller was right, they played like a junior team. Wouldn’t you have wanted to jump ship?

    Bridge deals are when I player comes to their ELC and the team gives you shorter term deal before deciding on a long term deal.

    Petry had 1 RFA year left so the term “bridge deal” doesn’t apply.

  50. Woodguy says:

    Gordies Elbow,

    I did hear that he did not like Eakins, but there was time to talk extension after Eakins was fired.

  51. Gordies Elbow says:

    Woodguy: Bridge deals are when I player comes to their ELC and the team gives you shorter term deal before deciding on a long term deal.

    Petry had 1 RFA year left so the term “bridge deal” doesn’t apply.

    I’m not saying it was the right play, I’m saying that it is what I understand they were talking about.

    Petry had 1 year to UFA, and Wade (knowing what his client wanted) took advantage of it.

    MacTavish walked into this one, for sure. Petry got what he wanted, though, as any UFA does.

  52. theres oil in virginia says:

    Gordies Elbow: As I understand it, MacTavish was trying for a 2-3 year bridge deal, and Wade walked them into a low dollar one year deal.

    The story of the “challenged him to a one year contract.” came out after, and doesn’t meet them smell test.

    If you were Petry, and saw Eakins, the team around Schultz, et. al., wouldn’t you be looking for the exit? Hell, Eller was right, they played like a junior team. Wouldn’t you have wanted to jump ship?

    I agree, I don’t think Petry wanted anything to do with a long-term deal in Edmonton. It wasn’t just MacT who pissed on Petry either, and while it is always taken as me trying to let MacT off the hook, it was Tambo/Lowe who started Petry down the path of an early exit from Edmonton. MacT did not appear to value Petry highly enough to make a good pitch, but he wasn’t in a good position either.

    BTW, this has been beat to death, raised from the dead and beat to death again…twice over. The whole thing stinks regardless of who’s fault it is.

  53. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: Petry is on record saying that he wanted to sign in Edmonton long term and MacT wasn’t interested.

    http://oilersnation.com/2015/10/29/jeff-petry-explains-why-he-doesn-t-play-for-the-edmonton-oilers-anymore

    It looks to me like Arpon Basu is on record, not Jeff Petry.

  54. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The thing about Petry is the same as the thing about Rieder and a lot of other players…

    Even if you accept the most flattering version for the Oilers’ management… that the players wanted out at the time of the trades and mgt took what it could get…

    You still have to confront the reality that the Oilers had a lot of time to build or ruin a relationship with these players. A lot of time to come to clarity on their evaluation of these players. A lot of time to negotiate contracts with these players. etc.

    You can’t simply wish away the history here.

  55. striatic says:

    Woodguy: Petry is on record saying that he wanted to sign in Edmonton long term and MacT wasn’t interested.

    http://oilersnation.com/2015/10/29/jeff-petry-explains-why-he-doesn-t-play-for-the-edmonton-oilers-anymore

    Players fib about that stuff all the time. What was he supposed to say? “I wanted the hell out of there”? Of course he’s going to say he wanted a long term deal, there’s no downside to saying that.

  56. Ice Sage says:

    I hate the fucking flames. Just hate ’em.

  57. Halfwise says:

    Yandle to Johnny Cocky.
    1-1, late second. Then NYR goes walkabout. Calgary nets 2 in 17 seconds.

  58. striatic says:

    Ice Sage,

    Rangers need to work on their centre ice face offs.

    jeez.

  59. Centre of attention says:

    Flames jump out to a 2-1 lead with 2 goals 17 seconds apart.

    Why can’t Oiler fans have nice things. I hope they choke.

  60. Dr. Taboggan says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    The thing about Petry is the same as the thing about Rieder and a lot of other players…

    Even if you accept the most flattering version for the Oilers’ management… that the players wanted out at the time of the trades and mgt took what it could get…

    You still have to confront the reality that the Oilers had a lot of time to build or ruin a relationship with these players. A lot of time to come to clarity on their evaluation of these players. A lot of time to negotiate contracts with these players. etc.

    You can’t simply wish away the history here.

    Boom. Quoted for truthiness.

  61. jp says:

    stush18:

    Wasn’t everyone rather worried about Chiarelli and his ability to draft? Seem to recall a lot of angst

    Alpine: Chiarelli honestly doesn’t have a great draft record, but it’s alright after the putrid years of 07-09. Colborne, Hamill, and Caron weren’t terrible bets where they were picked. They’ve found some useful players outside high picks as well.
    And even though he’s signing off on these picks, scouting has a lot of impact of what these picks are on every team. They also moved away from picking coke machines high after 2009 anyways.

    Where did this idea that Chiarelli has a poor draft record (and likes coke machines) come from? I’m genuinely not seeing it.

    2006:
    Kessel 5th overall, Lucic in the mid 2nd and Marchand in the 3rd (plus D Bodnarchuk in the 5th who has played for the Bluejackets this season). Not quite the Oilers in 1979, but that’s one hell of a draft. I guess you could withhold credit because he was only hired a month beforehand, but I’m not sure that’s fair.

    2007:
    Hamill was a miss in the first and 2nd rounder Cross has only played 3 NHL games (though those have been this year). No other picks before the 5th round.

    2008:
    Colborne 16th overall, goalie Michael Hutchinson in the 3rd. Missed on a QMJHL C in the 2nd Rd. Colborne isn’t what you’re *hoping* for at #16, but he’s a real NHLer. Nothing wrong with this draft. And no one aside from Colborne who could be considered a coke machine.

    2009:
    Caron has 153 NHL GP from pick #25 (but not trending to play many more). No 2nd. 3rd Rd D was a miss. 4th Rd MacDermid was an enforcer who made the NHL but has already retired. 6th rounder Randell is an NHL rookie this year. MacDermid the only coke machine.

    2010:
    Segin 2nd overall. Knight a 2nd round miss, but their other 2nd rounder (Spooner) is a regular this year. 4th rounder Cunningham and 7th rounder Trotman also played in the NHL this year.

    2011:
    Dougie Hamilton 9th overall. 2nd rounder Khokhlachev has played NHL games this year. 4th rounder Ferlin got games last year as a rookie pro (injured this year).

    2012:
    Malcom Subban 24th overall. No 2nd. 3rd rounder is a 5’10” scoring college defender. No 4th. 5th rounder is a 5’9′ C who played 30 NHL games last year.

    2013: No 1st rounder. Rest of the draft looking meh overall.

    2014: David Pastrnak 25th overall – an NHL regular already. Otherwise some college players trending well.

    I just don’t see a poor drafting record considering where the picks were. You can fault Chia for trading picks away (only 54 players drafted in 9 years vs 63 original picks) but there was nothing wrong with the ones he made. And really very few guys I’d consider coke machines.

    Overall the 9 drafts have produced 9 current NHL regulars, plus 11 others who’ve played NHL games this year or last. Early days for a lot of these picks too. That’s solidly average at least, right?

  62. Kmart99 says:

    Man I hate the Phlegms

  63. flyfish1168 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Chiarelli was able to snag Colborne at 16, MacT took him at 3!!

    Side note: Draisaitl 2P from Colborne’s career high. Sure miss our dashing friend, oy vey

    Best part is Leon’s total point is more then the combine points of both sams at this moment in less games than both. Love to tell our dashing friend this.

  64. SwedishPoster says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    “Nice pass from Ziyat Paigin, and an also-nice finish by Mikhail Anisin for HK Sochi against Ugra! ”

    That’s the son of Vyacheslav Anisin who played for the USSR in the Summit Series in ’72 and ’74.
    In ’72 he was on The Kid Line.

    Mikhail Anisin (5’5) standing next to Paigin(6’6) on the ice is a beauty of a site and worth watching a Sochi game all on its own.

  65. jp says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Dr. Taboggan: Boom. Quoted for truthiness.

    X2

  66. böök¡je says:

    striatic: Players fib about that stuff all the time. What was he supposed to say? “I wanted the hell out of there”? Of course he’s going to say he wanted a long term deal, there’s no downside to saying that.

    Yeah, just because you have a quote from a guy that lines up with the verbal from both sides throughout the whole period of negotiation and that hasn’t been challenged by anyone with knowledge of the situation doesn’t make it more valid than the shit I make up!

  67. Dr. Taboggan says:

    böök¡je,

    I hear that Petry planned on going to FA in grade 7 science class.

  68. russ99 says:

    Woodguy:
    MacT stated “You can’t pay al your Dman $4MM!”

    MacT chose Schultz over Petry as his RHD man of the future.

    It’s really that simple.

    Different situations, Schultz’s contract negotiations were defined and pretty much already set by the large payout and whatever promises they made when they signed him.

    MacT was just flat out a bad negotiatior. Got taken to the cleaners on Petry. Caved on Gagner right before going to arb, traded for an injured Nikitin and still gave him that huge payout, gave the NMC to Ference.

    At least he got Pouliot right and fleeced Pittsburgh on Perron.

  69. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia: It looks to me like Arpon Basu is on record, not Jeff Petry.

    Congratulations on the dumbest post in the thread and the stupidest thing I’ve read in a while.

    According to your logic no one actually says anything when quoted by a reporter.

    So the next time Kady O’Malley from the Ottawa Citizen writes “Trudeau said “X” about “Y””, we should be reading that Kady O’Malley said it because she was the one that reported the quote.

    Unreal.

  70. Woodguy says:

    A lot of the posts in this thread remind me of all the:

    “Petry didn’t sign because he wants to play in the US” and “Petry wants to play in Detroit, that’s why he only signed for a year”

    That was the common theme for a long time.

    “Insider” Mark Spector was the one in the MSM trumpeting this one and many people parroted it in the Oilogosphere.

    Then Petry signs a long term extension with a Canadian team and you never heard it again.

    Here’s the bottom line:

    MacT didn’t want to sign him long term.

    There are quotes linked to in this thread where he says as much.

    After watching Petry playing the toughest comp in the NHL for 4 years with Smid, Marincin and Ference and come out close to even, he was unsure whether or not to sign him.

    Jason Strudwick is on record saying he’d “never seen an organization treat a very good player this poorly”

    This has nothing to do with MacT’s negotiating skills.

    It has everything to do with MacT evaluating Petry and deciding he wasn’t worth the long term contract.

    It has everything to do with MacT falling in love with Schultz after his 34 games in the AHL and deciding that he was going to be the 1RHD on the Oilers and no amount of struggles in the NHL would change that.

  71. anonymous says:

    Mact made many mistakes. Talking too much and choreographing his moves were his worst.
    He was in over his head, in a job he never would have had in any other city.

  72. Diesel says:

    To be fair, Mac T gave us endless Twitter hilarity. And McDavid.
    Mmmmmm… McDavid.

  73. Marc says:

    Woodguy:
    A lot of the posts in this thread remind me of all the:

    “Petry didn’t sign because he wants to play in the US” and “Petry wants to play in Detroit, that’s why he only signed for a year”

    That was the common theme for a long time.

    “Insider” Mark Spector was the one in the MSM trumpeting this one and many people parroted it in the Oilogosphere.

    Then Petry signs a long term extension with a Canadian team and you never heard it again.

    Here’s the bottom line:

    MacT didn’t want to sign him long term.

    There are quotes linked to in this thread where he says as much.

    After watching Petry playing the toughest comp in the NHL for 4 years with Smid, Marincin and Ference and come out close to even, he was unsure whether or not to sign him.

    Jason Strudwick is on record saying he’d “never seen an organization treat a very good player this poorly”

    This has nothing to do with MacT’s negotiating skills.

    It has everything to do with MacT evaluating Petry and deciding he wasn’t worth the long term contract.

    It has everything to do with MacT falling in love with Schultz after his 34 games in the AHL and deciding that he was going to be the 1RHD on the Oilers and no amount of struggles in the NHL would change that.

    Don’t forget Fayne.

    I suspect that in summer 2014 MacT looked at Schultz and saw a better offensive RD than Petry, and looked at Fayne and saw a better shut down RD. I think he saw Petry as a tweener of sorts – good at many things, but not outstanding at anything. So in his mind he has his top two RD set , and Petry is the de facto third RD.

    The ‘can’t have all your D making $4M’ comment kinda makes sense if you think that Petry’s long term role on the Oilers would mostly be in the third pairing.

    By the time he realised (if he realised) that Schultz and Fayne weren’t as good as he had thought, and Petry was better than he thought, it was too late to get Petry locked up long term.

  74. Oil2Oilers says:

    Marc,

    If Petry had been able to some of the PP minutes Jultz is gifted he may not of been such a tweener. But that all plays back to your point on MacTs love of the he choose us one.

  75. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    MacT gave us the gift of “MacT face”. That’s a gift internet meme generators will make sure keeps on giving for a long time.

    Nurse
    Draisaitl
    MacT face

    Thank you for your service.

  76. rickithebear says:

    I miss Jeff Petry!
    that 2nd/ 3rd comp defensive play is how you build a cup winning team.
    We have not replaced his standard of play in WC.

    Holy Fuck!
    Better get my LTM checked too!

  77. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: Congratulations on the dumbest post in the thread and the stupidest thing I’ve read in a while.

    According to your logic no one actually says anything when quoted by a reporter.

    So the next time Kady O’Malley from the Ottawa Citizen writes “Trudeau said “X” about “Y””, we should be reading that Kady O’Malley said it because she was the one that reported the quote.

    Unreal.

    I think that’s an over-the-top reaction to have to my post. Really, way over. My point was that you linked to JW’s article, which contains a twitter post by whoever Arpon Basu is, which claims that Petry said something. I was expecting to see Petry’s quote and had no idea who Basu was/is. I see now that he works for nhl.com and is close to the Canads. So I think your point is valid and that was a bit stupid on my part. In my defense, I’ll say that I was simply trying to be sure that we knew what we thought we knew, and it was late. I should have checked into who Basu was first. I apologize.

    However, it’s reactions like yours above which have made me tire of posting here. You might approve of that, because hey it’s much better when everyone agrees on the narrative (MacT was a total failure) and no dissenting positions are considered. Or even better, let’s everybody take one of the two most opposing positions and argue tenaciously. Anyone who tries to get beyond that is accused of taking one or the other polarized positions and forced toward it. There is no nuance and no regard for the truth of the matter. And just forget about respect, that’s retro.

    I have disagreed with you many times, but I have never made statements toward you like the above you made toward me, and while I don’t have the public presence that you have (I know your name you don’t know mine – Hi Darcy, I’m Jake Beale from SW Virginia – now we’re a bit more even) and that isn’t a fair arrangement, I think that the respect that I have shown you deserves a bit more in return than what you’ve just shown me.

    So many times I’ve read something here that is outright false, or at best based on uncertain information (someone’s guess, often yours), that gets parrotted repeatedly and built upon, and I’ve started writing something (hopefully) objective in response, but it gets deleted before posting, because I’m sure someone will react like you have above and it’s tiresome. Even this post, I’m currently considering just saying “fuck it” and deleting it.

  78. magisterrex says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    I hope you continue to post.

    Groupthink is how the OBC went wrong with the Oilers.

    Differing viewpoints should be encouraged here.

    But I’m just a tier four Lowetide poster, so what do I know.

  79. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    . I was expecting to see Petry’s quote and had no idea who Basu was/is. I see now that he works for nhl.com and is close to the Canads. So I think your point is valid and that was a bit stupid on my part. In my defense, I’ll say that I was simply trying to be sure that we knew what we thought we knew, and it was late. I should have checked into who Basu was first. I apologize.

    However, it’s reactions like yours above which have made me tire of posting here.

    Hi Jake,

    Three things:

    1) Your post dismissed an information point of my argument with a wave of a hand and without information. I usually jump on that, regardless of the poster. I do not do that to evidence based arguments. The difference between the two is everything.

    2) I’m a dink and I apologize for going *slightly* over the top.

    3) Now that you know who Basu is, when you re-read your post you have to admit that its really dumb and to be fair to me it was one of the stupidest things I had read in a while.

  80. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy:
    theres oil in virginia,

    . I was expecting to see Petry’s quote and had no idea who Basu was/is. I see now that he works for nhl.com and is close to the Canads. So I think your point is valid and that was a bit stupid on my part. In my defense, I’ll say that I was simply trying to be sure that we knew what we thought we knew, and it was late. I should have checked into who Basu was first. I apologize.


    However, it’s reactions like yours above which have made me tire of posting here.

    Hi Jake,

    Three things:

    1) Your post dismissed an information point of my argument witha wave of a hand and without information.I usually jump on that, regardless of the poster.

    2) I’m a dink and I apologize for going *slightly* over the top.

    3)Now that you know who Basu is, when you re-read your post you have to admit that its really dumb and to be fair to me it was one of the stupidest things I had read in a while.

    Thanks for the response WG. Regarding your point 3, I agreed with your assessment in my response above, it was lazy work on my part. So, no worries regarding your conclusion. It was your manner I was objecting to, and I won’t dwell on it.

    In general, I’ve refrained from engaging many others here in order to avoid entanglement, and have stuck to you, LT, Bruce, Spoiler, Pouzar, JDI, and a handful of others. I’ve often wondered if it comes across as targeting you when I only chime in and disagree with your comments, but it is not intended that way.

    Regarding Petry, I mostly agree with your latest post above. I think MacT would have been happy to sign Petry long term, but at low dollars, which indicates that he undervalued him. However, I don’t see evidence of what Petry would have signed for. Petry willing to sign 6 years for $6M per year doesn’t mean much more than MacT willing to sign him for 6 years at $2M per. Both of those positions can be construed to mean the there was willingness to sign, but neither position is reasonable.

    So, in the absence of those numbers, it’s hard to say with much meaningfulness that Petry was willing to sign long term, or that MacT was not. A caveat to this is MacT’s statement about not being able to pay all of your d-men $4M. Does this indicate that Petry was looking for $4M? Would Petry have signed in EDM for less than he signed in MTL. I doubt it. Unfortunately, we don’t have all of the info.

  81. theres oil in virginia says:

    magisterrex:
    theres oil in virginia,

    I hope you continue to post.

    Groupthink is how the OBC went wrong with the Oilers.

    Differing viewpoints should be encouraged here.

    But I’m just a tier four Lowetide poster, so what do I know.

    Thanks for the support. I echo your sentiment and appreciate it when, in good faith, folks take time to go against the tide. (No pun intended.)

  82. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    theres oil in virginia,

    . I’ve often wondered if it comes across as targeting you when I only chime in and disagree with your comments, but it is not intended that way.

    Not at all.

    I think you are generally a smart poster.

  83. Woodguy says:

    magisterrex:
    theres oil in virginia,

    I hope you continue to post.

    Groupthink is how the OBC went wrong with the Oilers.

    Differing viewpoints should be encouraged here.

    But I’m just a tier four Lowetide poster, so what do I know.

    I didn’t go after him because he disagreed with my narrative.

    I went after him because he dismissed by argument with a wave of a hand instead of evidence.

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