ROCKIN’ NEW YEARS?

The Edmonton Oilers are being careful about updates on Connor McDavid, with good reason. Unless they have a rink 200 miles under the city, there is no way to put him on skates without fanfare. A McDavid spotting would be front-page news. I have stated that (for me) New Year’s Eve would be a reasonable estimate, but the MSM suggests mid-January. They have access, I do not. Still….we wait.

LIFE WITHOUT TREBLE KLEF

OILERS DEFENSE OVER SEASON

Oscar Klefbom is having a terrific season, and that is an impressive thing based on age, experience and where he is on the depth chart. The numbers here have been acquired against some very good NHL players and represent a significant step forward for the young player. His injury (fractured finger) will keep him out of some or all of the road trip, possibly longer.

Brandon Davidson is the obvious choice to step up, although recall Nikita Nikitin will draw in and could play up the depth chart if Todd McLellan decides to keep two pairings together.

Darnell Nurse—Andrej Sekera are an interesting top pairing, their Corsi For 5×5 % is going south but the SC against actually improved in the last game. This road trip is going to be an interesting test for them, Edmonton’s last road trip had some major issues.

We may also see a recall, although Griffin Reinhart and Mark Fayne just got to Bakersfield and other options (like David Musil) lack NHL experience.

NUGE CLIMBS A MOUNTAIN

oilers centers over season

Leon Draisaitl is on the kind of roll we have not seen from an Oilers center since Doug Weight passed 100 points. His performances this year have forced us to revise our own view of him—almost daily—even though he is just 20 years old.

Connor McDavid has not played for the Oilers in weeks, and yet the young man remains in daily conversation. In a real way, the current situation for Oilers fans is half anticipation of his return and half growing excitement over the season live.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is digging out from that illness awhile back, and the 5×5 numbers are improving (and he is doing it against the tough opposition). One thing I looked for this week: Home/road scoring splits. My working theory was Nuge would be stronger on the road, where Todd McClellan would be less able to get RNH out against the toughest opposition. In fact, his scoring totals are striking in the other direction:

  • Home: 15GP, 4-8-12 +2
  • Road: 14GP, 3-5-8 -9

Nuge is a battler and my money is on him to have a far better road trip this time. Anton Lander and Mark Letestu both appear to be contributing more of late, although for Lander the offense remains elusive.

WONDER HALL

oil forwards over season

Taylor Hall is finally getting the recognition he has earned since the early days of his career, with some even suggesting he should be in the conversation for season-ending awards. I would have to think long and hard to come up an example of a player with this kind of performance over his first 5+ seasons who has had the boots put to him as badly as Hall. If I did come up with an example, that player would be European, and small.

  • Bob McKenzie: “I don’t know that he’s uncoachable. I suspect that – if I had to guess, and it’s only a guess – if they’re thinking of trading Taylor Hall, Taylor Hall might be the first guy to say, ‘great’ after everything he’s been through. But when I look at this, I think Dregs is right. I think everything is going to be on the table and that includes, potentially, Taylor Hall.” Source

The best thing Daryl Katz did this summer? Hire Peter Chiarelli. If you are upset about Jeff Petry leaving for draft picks, imagine how much the internet would have exploded over the package for Hall. More reading on the subject of a time where people discussed Hall being dealt is here, and it serves as sober reminder of what we were discussing one year ago.

Jordan Eberle is rounding into form offensively, as with Nuge it is the 5×5/60 total that stands out as especially counter to his career. One thing this road trip needs: Benoit Pouliot. I like Jujhar Khaira, and hope he stays in the lineup, but for me Pouliot is a smart veteran with the ability to cash offensively and delay progress for the opposition sorties. He is about time and space for the Nuge line, and he is an experienced veteran. Hope he plays in Boston.

One player who is finding his way now is Iiro Pakarinen. I am still unsure of him offensively, but he is certainly a candidate for one of the complementary wingers on one of the Oilers three scoring lines once they head in that direction. I like his ability to think on his feet and he gives his center a good passing target. Hockey sense has gotten a bad name because people throw it around a lot but I like Pakarinen’s ability to think on his feet.

NIKITIN

Our man Nikitin is back in the city and very likely to play against Boston (I assume any call up today won’t get to Boston in time). He appears to have improved his conditioning and there is no real reason for him to be in the minors if he can turn and has passable mobility. We need to remember he spent much of last season injured and because of that fitness was always an issue. I wrote this during the RE series in the summer:

  • If he’s healthy, Nikitin has a chance to increase his playing time (19:38) from a year ago. Counting on a defender with back issues is a bad idea. Nikitin’s EV time from last season (16 minutes) and his special teams minutes (1:45 for both) mean he’s among the more complete options on the team. I’m not confident he’ll be as mobile as needed, but the Oilers have the intel on conditioning/back and if he’s good to go we must assume he’s a big part of the team in 2015-16. Source

Todd McLellan and Peter Chiarelli have Mark Fayne in the minors and Nikita Nikitin in the majors. This does not make sense to me, even if there is a trade market for NN. That said, I don’t coach an NHL team and maybe Nikitin’s back is good enough this year to the point he can stay in shape and has improved mobility. I will say this: Nikita Nikitin will never get a better chance to step into the breach and save the day.

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139 Responses to "ROCKIN’ NEW YEARS?"

  1. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    All I want for Christmas is a healthy McDavid, Nikitin on the next flight back to California, and a big C sewed on the front of Hall’s jersey.

  2. stephen sheps says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    I would like the same things you have listed for Hanukkah, though I am willing to reserve judgement on the double agent until we see what he looks like in a game this season before sending him away again. Though he is slow, perhaps his point shot will help the anemic power play?

    (I would also like one of those fancy new orange Oiler sweaters, if anyone cares to send me an actual gift)

  3. dustrock says:

    So take out the dual Blues games and the Stars and we’re not looking horrible.

  4. flyfish1168 says:

    Its always interesting what the speculation is on the trade market. Would be interesting to be a fly on the wall what Chai and Tmac talk about .

  5. Henry says:

    The Oilers are better than the Canucks without McDavid but with Klefbom.

  6. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Well, yesterday happened. And I mean that in a good way. Woodguy unleashed an animal. And it was amazing. Might have been a banner day for the rethinking of Hall’s legacy to date.

  7. Ice Sage says:

    Oilers running to stand still in the standings – Buffalo and Rangers have helped the Pacific Division back to respectability.

    McDavid’s return (and hunger) will be a huge boost, sure, but Pouliot, Klefbom and Yakupov are also missed. Will the full line-up ever be iced?

    And yes, Botch, this Oiler team, completely healthy, with current coaching systems and a meritocratic culture, is for real, and better than the Canucks, despite their ageless pisscutters.

  8. elgruntus says:

    In spite of the fact that he has earned much of the scorn thrown his way, Nikitin will certainly be a better powerplay option than Jultz. He does have a great slapshot after all.

  9. stephen sheps says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Well, yesterday happened. And I mean that in a good way. Woodguy unleashed an animal. And it was amazing. Might have been a banner day for the rethinking of Hall’s legacy to date.

    Was really happy to see Woodguy’s tweet of your -8 vs. -268 comment at ON. Arch’s article on Hall was pretty fantastic, actually. Good press for everyone!

  10. oilinthepeg says:

    Excellent post, as usual, LT.

    Although we are collectively chipper to be looking at that standings chart just two points back of 2nd in the division and there are a lot of reasons why things are clicking this year (wholesale change to the management, goalering gords at least ignoring us instead of actively trying to screw us over, somehow still overcoming suspect officiating most nights, Leon looking like a different player than last year, albeit one I think we all knew he could be… Etc. Etc.) the real joy for me is to see Taylor Hall take and lead this team where they need to go. The turn north as small as the sample seems to be, is initiated by his growth and development as a player. He has always had the numbers to suggest he was pushing the river, but as an ‘old-school’ (see: uninformed ignorant, actually) observer, there were quite a few times where I would see him bad or just be frustrated by the way he would take a penalty. That appears to have completely evaporated from his game. Could be coaching, could be another year older, could be the chem with Leon, I don’t know… But this player is a phenom and now my eyes agree with what the numbers have said all along. He also just seems calm and engaged and… Yep. I think that no matter what McD does there is a 2-3 year period where this should be Hall’s team. I also have long hoped for Nuge to someday wear the C for this team, but I am definitely being won over by Hall.

    It’s a great time to be an Oilers fan! That Rags game was an absolute joy to watch. Not because we didn’t look shaky at times throughout, but because there is a hunger to win… (And because Skorpikoski was just…. Well, there will be fond memories of the hilarity of that for some time to come).

    Cheers to all! GOILERS!

  11. Магия 10 says:

    Ice Sage: Oilers running to stand still in the standings

    Yeah, but that’s 2nd place they are 2 points behind. Also no games in hand for 2nd and 3rd place teams now. 3 tough games ahead.

  12. stush18 says:

    LT I love nuge but I think you’re cutting him extra slack. He has not been as effective as he usually is. Showing a tweet about him being ahead of Crosby in scoring forget to mention that Crosby is having a career worst year. And I think allowing his illness to be used as an excuse is something we should stop.

    He’s playing poorly at even strength. He’s getting his points on the powerplay, and to my eye he hasn’t been that effective defending either. It’s early, but nuge should be over 2.00 pts/60.

    It’s not all his fault. And he’s been put in to tough situations. But I think we need to stop making excuses and admit he has not been playing like his regular self.

  13. meanashell11 says:

    So I will be at the game Tuesday with my oldest son. Last year MSG was full of Oiler fans, it was great to see them all out. Apparently some travel company in Edmonton puts together road trip trips?? Anyway, hope to see some more on Tuesday. I am in the lower bowl, section 103.

  14. Bar_Qu says:

    Willis tweeted a while back (4 or 5 games) that it was unreasonable for the oil to get 75 points in the games remaining to them – to get to the 95 point threshold most playoff teams have needed the last few years. But the Oilers can take hope that because of the NHL’s incompetent meddling with the playoff format and the ineptitude of the Pacific division in general, they may not need to do that.

    Already the Sharks look more human, the Canucks more Canuckian & therefore all those teams remain in reach. If the Oil keep up the pace of above .500 hockey to earn 60 pts in the remaining games, they have a real shot at the playoffs.

    Not rushing CMD back, playing a tighter defensive style on the road than they have at home recently and getting average to above average starts from both Nilsson and Talbot makes this achievable. Already they have more wins than the Canucks, their goal differential is far better than the Flames and does anyone really believe Arizona can keep this up all season? (seriously, I haven’t paid attention to them at all – is this a mirage or real?)

  15. smellyglove says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    What are you referring to? I recall a thread from the other day about some sort of mythical deleted tweet, does this have anything to do with your statement?

  16. Ryan says:

    Магия 10: Yeah, but that’s 2nd place they are 2 points behind. Also no games in hand for 2nd and 3rd place teams now. 3 tough games ahead.

    It’s like a Bettman dream come true. 3 points separating 7 from 14 in the WC.

  17. Ryan says:

    Ryan,

    It’s December 13th and we’re 2 points back of a playoff spot and 2 Wildcard spots all at even gp, I’ll take it.

  18. stephen sheps says:

    smellyglove:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    What are you referring to? I recall a thread from the other day about some sort of mythical deleted tweet, does this have anything to do with your statement?

    Have a look at this article – WG retweeted some amazing numbers that NYC posted here yesterday and ON ran with it… perhaps generating more attention from there: http://oilersnation.com/2015/12/12/edmonton-s-beating-heart

  19. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    smellyglove:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    What are you referring to? I recall a thread from the other day about some sort of mythical deleted tweet, does this have anything to do with your statement?

    No idea what you are referencing. Woodguy’s tweet of a stat I posted here yesterday went crazy.

  20. OF17 says:

    It blows my mind that we’re halfway through December and still in the playoff hunt. With an entire 2nd line injured, a D with only one consistent top-4 veteran, and Eberle and Nuge not fully clicking. This is a strange feeling. I cheer for… a hockey team?

    I know it’s sacrilege, but the idea of trading Nuge has gone from 0% appealing to about 2% for me in recent times. If we can sign Frans Nielsen as a UFA, does trading Nuge for a Seth Jones type not make sense? Without the Nielsen move, it leaves us too exposed, but with a veteran 2/3 C coming in to fill the gap, it could be worth it.

  21. Seymore says:

    I am pissed that they have activated Ference and he is practicing on the 3rd Defence pair. What ever happened to we are in the business to win or they will play the best lineup. If Ference plays the loss is pretty much guaranteed. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

  22. Yeti says:

    stush18:
    LT I love nuge but I think you’re cutting him extra slack. He has not been as effective as he usually is. Showing a tweet about him being ahead of Crosby in scoring forget to mention that Crosby is having a career worst year. And I think allowing his illness to be used as an excuse is something we should stop.

    He’s playing poorly at even strength. He’s getting his points on the powerplay, and to my eye he hasn’t been that effective defending either. It’s early, but nuge should be over 2.00 pts/60.

    It’s not all his fault. And he’s been put in to tough situations. But I think we need to stop making excuses and admit he has not been playing like his regular self.

    Stush – I think everyone is in agreement (especially LT) that he hasn’t played like the Nuge of last season since he got sick and needs to improve. Two questions: 1) is he now on an upward trajectory, returning to the full Nuge we know and love. 2) why did his game fall so badly – is there an injury to go with that sickness that he’s still recovering from?

  23. gogliano says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Willis tweeted a while back (4 or 5 games) that it was unreasonable for the oil to get 75 points in the games remaining to them – to get to the 95 point threshold most playoff teams have needed the last few years. But the Oilers can take hope that because of the NHL’s incompetent meddling with the playoff format and the ineptitude of the Pacific division in general, they may not need to do that.

    Already the Sharks look more human, the Canucks more Canuckian & therefore all those teams remain in reach. If the Oil keep up the pace of above .500 hockey to earn 60 pts in the remaining games, they have a real shot at the playoffs.

    Not rushing CMD back, playing a tighter defensive style on the road than they have at home recently and getting average to above average starts from both Nilsson and Talbot makes this achievable. Already they have more wins than the Canucks, their goal differential is far better than the Flames and does anyone really believe Arizona can keep this up all season? (seriously, I haven’t paid attention to them at all – is this a mirage or real?)

    If the ‘Yotes keep this up, they’ll finish with worse than – 30 goal differential.

    If Mike Smith (who is battling injury) continues to be a .900 goalie, as he was last season and has been thus far this season, I don’t think Arizona has a realistic shot at the playoffs.

    Whatever else, they’re getting killed on goaltending and don’t have an obvious solution (barring trade).

  24. smellyglove says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Thanks, I’m just a confused person in general.

    stephen sheps,

    Matt Henderson is a really strong new writer.

  25. oilinthepeg says:

    FWIW, According to sportsclubstats.com the Oil have a 33.7% chance at playoffs… Probably too early to give much credit based on how this is calculated (?), but…

  26. tcho says:

    Oilers have a shot at this. Boston’s been dynamite on the road (10-2), but basically .500 at home (6-7). In tough without Dreamy.

    Goilers!

    *clapclap*

  27. Seymore says:

    Still fuming. We can’t afford to drop any points. Its different if you have a cushion. 1 of 3 things is happening if Ference draws in and I sure hope he doesn’t. 1) Hey Pete, we are in the market for a 6/7 D man why don’t you play Ference tonight, we may be interested in picking him up at the deadline. (a ruse to help them win, knowing how bad Ference is.) 2) We need to get Andrew some playing time just in case we need him down the road. (no you don’t, there are far better options on the farm.) 3) Let’s be nice and give him a chance against his old team, he might play well against them. (how about ice the best lineup and give the Oilers a better chance to make the playoffs.)

  28. stephen sheps says:

    smellyglove,

    he’s not that new – used to post here regularly for a number of years. that said, I agree he’s an excellent writer.

  29. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    smellyglove,

    No worries at all. We are all confused, in a way.

  30. godot10 says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    All I want for Christmas is a healthy McDavid, Nikitin on the next flight back to California, and a big C sewed on the front of Hall’s jersey.

    More like Valentine’s Day. Prediction: They don’t bring McDavid back till after the all-star break. First game after…Feb 2.

    The Oilers get a over a full extra week of healing by waiting till February.

  31. Woodguy says:

    I needed to ree-post this from the GDT that LT linked to in his post.

    Its well written, true and prophetic:

    I will leave you with one more thought on the matter: Losing teams ALWAYS focus on the wrong thing. Always. They just can’t help it. This scenario reminds me of the time the Montreal Expos slipped in the standings and decided the problem was their All-Star catcher Gary Carter. Carter was a unique player (power-hitting catcher who could actually catch) and the Expos dealt him to the Mets for four guys you’ve never heard of, before or since.

    Losing organizations do supremely stupid things. In this way, the Taylor Hall trade rumors are less about Taylor Hall and more about the Edmonton Oilers. If you’re worried about a Taylor Hall trade, be worried about the organization entrusted with putting a good team on the ice. They are the same people who felt it was a good idea to start the season with two NHL centers and mud.

    That my friends is the worry. Simple, beautiful competence. There was a time when the Montreal Expos looked at their entire roster and decided the problem was their most uniquely-talented player. Don’t tell me it’s impossible, I’ve seen it before.

    The one reason you should feel confident it won’t happen? The Edmonton Oilers are an absolute laughingstock league-wide. If they trade Hall, they won’t get full value. If they don’t get full value, those $7 Stubhub Oilers tickets are going to be going for $3 or less.

    The Edmonton Oilers would be better off keeping Hall and trading management. It has come to this.

  32. Woodguy says:

    CorsiHockeyLeague ‏@CorsiHL 7m7 minutes ago
    #Oilera update – 5v5 stats this season:

    Oilers w/ Hall on ice: 28GF, 15GA (65.1% GF%)

    Oilers w/o Hall on ice: 24GF, 50GA (32.4% GF%)

  33. Woodguy says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: No idea what you are referencing. Woodguy’s tweet of a stat I posted here yesterday went crazy.

    Lots of Retweets and retweets of retweets.

    98 RT’s of the original tweet.

    NYCOIL’s phone was probably going off like a popcorn maker.

    Mine was.

  34. bigbadbruin24 says:

    Love the Oilers but simply can’t cheer against my Bruins…unless maybe it was the last game of the season and the opponent needed the two points awarded by beating the Bruins to keep the Habs out of the playoffs, lol.

    2-1 Bruins in OT sounds fair…especially since the Oil took the last contest in a three point affair.

    Bruins -> Marchand from Bergeron and Chara, Eriksson from Krug for the winner
    Oilers -> Draisaitl from Hall and Nurse

    Plus if both Randell and Gazdic are in I would love to see them give it a go.

    Cheers.

  35. John Chambers says:

    Woodguy:
    CorsiHockeyLeague ‏@CorsiHL7m7 minutes ago
    #Oilera update – 5v5 stats this season:

    Oilers w/ Hall on ice: 28GF, 15GA (65.1% GF%)

    Oilers w/o Hall on ice: 24GF, 50GA (32.4% GF%)

    My conclusion is that Hall is benefitting from better quality linemates and easier competition, but I don’t watch the games.

    When are we going to trade that looser for OEL?

  36. Adam Wu says:

    I’d like to give a healthy Nikitin a chance to prove us all wrong. I’m not holding my breath, but if it should come to pass that he proves a serviceable injury replacement, keeps Ference out of the lineup, and gets flipped at the deadline for a draft pick or two, the crow is defrosting and I would eat with relish.

  37. godot10 says:

    People forget that Hall was going supernova during Krueger’s season. He was 2nd in scoring in the Western Conference in an all Western Conference schedule. He nearly willed the Oilers to the playoffs that season.

    MacT and Eakins believed Hall was the problem and put a jackboot to his throat for two seasons. They explicitly came in saying that they were going to change Taylor Hall’s game. And they did…taking him from 55% Corsi to 45% Corsi.

    Hall is “free” again. McLellan, like Krueger, lets his alpha dogs run. McLellan has a much better roster, and much better systems. But Krueger would have fixed his systems once he had gotten a proven assistant coach.

  38. Adam Wu says:

    A comment about RNH not looking as good as he has in the past.

    We all know that every good player goes through slumps and that good players will play themselves out of those slumps.

    But let us also consider this:

    Before collarbonegate, he took on the toughs without Pouliot on his wing, and in so doing freed McDavid-Yak-Pou to feast on lesser comp.

    After collarbonegate, he is taking on the toughs without Hall on his wing, and in so doing has freed Hall-Drai-Purcell to feast on lesser comp.

    He has done so, to date, with an average of 0.25-0.50 healthy Eberle’s on his other wing.

    So he has lost ALL the linemates he has developed chemistry with, except for an as-yet-not-100% Eberle, and while he has gotten his teeth kicked in a few times by the other team’s top comp, in doing so, like in the Ranger’s game, he enabled his other teammates to kick the other team’s second comp’s teeth in EVEN WORSE in the process.

    I’d say he’s doing his job, even while in a personal slump, with every expectation of improvement in the future.

  39. Edmonton_fan says:

    “My conclusion is that Hall is benefitting from better quality linemates and easier competition, but I don’t watch the games.”

    John Chambers,

    My friends and I do watch the games. One of them pointed out that having Joe Thornton (oops – meant Leon Draisaitl) on his line is giving Hall more space on the ice – he no longer has to do it all himself…

  40. Lowetide says:

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers 4m4 minutes ago

    “They’re both getting closer but neither will play tomorrow.” Coach McLellan on Pouliot and Klink, expect at least one to return on trip

    Also said Talbot may play tomorrow and that they will decide today on NN or Ference drawing in.

  41. Woodguy says:

    PACIFIC DIVISION STANDINGS VIA GAMES

    LAK +11
    ARI 0
    SJS 0
    ————–
    VAN 0
    CAL -1
    EDM -2
    ANA -2

    Its not just 3rd place that ups for grabs, its 2nd and 3rd.

    Team that have the same pts % are ranked via ROW.

    ARI scored with 16 seconds left yesterday to tie CAR then lost the bonus point in OT, otherwise they’d be 5th instead of 2nd.

    Its stupid close and will be for a while.

    Wide – freaking – open.

  42. Adam Wu says:

    godot10:
    People forget that Hall was going supernova during Krueger’s season.He was 2nd in scoring in the Western Conference in an all Western Conference schedule.He nearly willed the Oilers to the playoffs that season.

    MacT and Eakins believed Hall was the problem and put a jackboot to his throat for two seasons.They explicitly came in saying that they were going to change Taylor Hall’s game.And they did…taking him from 55% Corsi to 45% Corsi.

    Hall is “free” again.McLellan, like Krueger, lets his alpha dogs run.McLellan has a much better roster, and much better systems.But Krueger would have fixed his systems once he had gotten a proven assistant coach.

    I think there is one important difference between Supernova Hall with Krueger and supernova Hall with McLellan.

    Back during that lockout season, I recall an analysis was made over at CnB regarding Krueger’s systems and Hall, and the important conclusion with respect to Hall came in a comment that went something like this “Taylor Hall, he does not abide.”

    In other words, Hall was not following Krueger’s system. He was doing his own thing. Whether this was deliberate (Krueger may have told Hall to just do his thing while his teammates performed the system), or whether he did not buy in, or whether it was a nudge-nudge-wink-wink thing where Krueger was letting Hall do his thing without comment so long as he could produce results, Hall Supernova Krueger was chaos personified. He was a Core Collapse Type II Supernova, which is less sustainable and not something one can easily build a foundation for future improvement upon.

    This year, though, Hall IS following a system. McLellan has produced a system in which Hall can, and is flourishing. This year Hall Supernova McLellan is a Type IA Supernova, which are consistent, repeatable (to the point of being a cosmic standard candle), and therefore a foundation upon which teams can be built around.

    Though always spectacular, in astronomy as in hockey, not all supernovas are created equal, and this year it seems to me that Hall is going off in the more useful variety.

  43. Adam Wu says:

    Note also that Type II supernovas arise from single stars, while Type IA supernovas are produced by binary systems, and this year Hall is mentoring a companion, something he has not done (or been asked to do) before.

  44. Woodguy says:

    Adam Wu:
    A comment about RNH not looking as good as he has in the past.

    We all know that every good player goes through slumps and that good players will play themselves out of those slumps.

    But let us also consider this:

    Before collarbonegate, he took on the toughs without Pouliot on his wing, and in so doing freed McDavid-Yak-Pou to feast on lesser comp.

    After collarbonegate, he is taking on the toughs without Hall on his wing, and in so doing has freed Hall-Drai-Purcell to feast on lesser comp.

    He has done so, to date, with an average of 0.25-0.50 healthy Eberle’s on his other wing.

    So he has lost ALL the linemates he has developed chemistry with, except for an as-yet-not-100% Eberle, and while he has gotten his teeth kicked in a few times by the other team’s top comp, in doing so, like in the Ranger’s game, he enabled his other teammates to kick the other team’s second comp’s teeth in EVEN WORSE in the process.

    I’d say he’s doing his job, even while in a personal slump, with every expectation of improvement in the future.

    This is all true.

    Let us also not forget games like SJS where Hall’s line got fed by Thornton (Hall was 33% vs Thornton-Pavelski-Karlsson) and RNH’s line won the battle vs Marleau (RNH was 65% vs Marleau-Ward-Couture/Hertl)

    RNH isn’t getting killed every game.

    I expect more good stuff from him and as Eberle gets healthier it will help, as will Pouliot instead of a rookie (a rookie that I really like)

    His history suggests he’ll be fine and needing good linemates to play against he best isn’t a crime or a black spot on his record. Everyone does.

  45. Halfwise says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    smellyglove,

    No worries at all. We are all confused, in a way.

    At least, sometimes we think so. But not always the times that others think we are.

  46. Adam Wu says:

    godot10:

    MacT and Eakins believed Hall was the problem and put a jackboot to his throat for two seasons.They explicitly came in saying that they were going to change Taylor Hall’s game.And they did…taking him from 55% Corsi to 45% Corsi.

    Their stated aim was to add defensive responsibility to Hall’s game. And guess what, this year Hall is being lauded for being a LOT more defensively responsible, and this is kickstarting a lot of his offense.

    The narratives spin rotating neutron stars. You could say that MacT/Eakins were simply not competent teachers for Hall. But you could also say that the lessons he learned, and paid so dearly to learn, in the last two years, are coming to fruition now, for McLellan to reap.

  47. marty62 says:

    Adam Wu:
    A comment about RNH not looking as good as he has in the past.

    We all know that every good player goes through slumps and that good players will play themselves out of those slumps.

    But let us also consider this:

    Before collarbonegate, he took on the toughs without Pouliot on his wing, and in so doing freed McDavid-Yak-Pou to feast on lesser comp.

    After collarbonegate, he is taking on the toughs without Hall on his wing, and in so doing has freed Hall-Drai-Purcell to feast on lesser comp.

    He has done so, to date, with an average of 0.25-0.50 healthy Eberle’s on his other wing.

    So he has lost ALL the linemates he has developed chemistry with, except for an as-yet-not-100% Eberle, and while he has gotten his teeth kicked in a few times by the other team’s top comp, in doing so, like in the Ranger’s game, he enabled his other teammates to kick the other team’s second comp’s teeth in EVEN WORSE in the process.

    I’d say he’s doing his job, even while in a personal slump, with every expectation of improvement in the future.

    I agree with this. I think Nuge is our Bergeron. He does everything well and when Poo gets back on that line they will start posting crooked numbers again. Again I want to point out that Nuge is doing this job and doing it well at 22. Any thoughts on not keeping this young man are assinine

  48. Woodguy says:

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers 28m28 minutes ago
    “This is probably the best I’ve felt, most positive I’ve felt in my six years.” @hallsy04 on chemistry with @Drat_29 and @teddypurcell16

    That’s so great to hear!

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers 32m32 minutes ago
    “It’s not major. He may join us at some point (on the road trip).” Chiarelli with a quick update on @Klefbom93, who left Friday’s game

    *WHEW!!!!!*

    I was afraid it was going to be a 3 week + thing.

    Still makes for a tough roadie.

  49. godot10 says:

    Adam Wu: Their stated aim was to add defensive responsibility to Hall’s game. And guess what, this year Hall is being lauded for being a LOT more defensively responsible, and this is kickstarting a lot of his offense.

    The narratives spin rotating neutron stars. You could say that MacT/Eakins were simply not competent teachers for Hall. But you could also say that the lessons he learned, and paid so dearly to learn, in the last two years, are coming to fruition now, for McLellan to reap.

    Hall was +5 under Krueger. -15 under Eakins the following season. What the dementor was teaching was stupid.

  50. Woodguy says:

    Chris Wescott ‏@TheChrisWescott 2h2 hours ago
    #Oilers D: Nurse-Sekera, Davidson-Gryba & Ference-Schultz. Nikitin, Klinkhammer and Pouliot are skating

    Interesting.

    Seems like McLellan is using Davidson to anchor the 2nd pair and then expose Ference-Schultz to lesser comp.

    I prefer that to Davidson-Schultz 2nd and Ference-Gryba 3rd.

  51. John Chambers says:

    Adam Wu: Their stated aim was to add defensive responsibility to Hall’s game. And guess what, this year Hall is being lauded for being a LOT more defensively responsible, and this is kickstarting a lot of his offense.

    The narratives spin rotating neutron stars. You could say that MacT/Eakins were simply not competent teachers for Hall. But you could also say that the lessons he learned, and paid so dearly to learn, in the last two years, are coming to fruition now, for McLellan to reap.

    It’s hard for me to rationalize that MacLellan has been the beneficiary of Hall’s lengthy defensive apprenticeship, as we would have witnessed some kind of arc where Hall demonstrated better defensive play during that time. He may have, but not in a way that wasnt detrimental to his overall game.

    Mostly I think that MacLellan deserves a ton of credit for his work with Hall. I think the coach saw an enormous amount of raw talent that he could shape, and his investment in Hall is paying dividends.

  52. Brackenburied says:

    1. I wish I was more smarter.
    2. I’m from Saskatchewan.
    3. I’ve driven through Maidstone a thousand times. (The bypass sucks. I miss Maidstone.)
    4. I honestly thought McCloud and the scary truck was a CFQC fuelled dream. Until Lowetide.
    5. ‘Chance’?? Are you still beating that drum?
    6. I propose Tom T.
    7. Tom T and Dr Drai!
    7a. Cuts a wide swath don’t it?!
    8. Are you drinking scotch? Yes
    9. It’s Sunday morning!! Refer to number 2 above.
    10. Church at 11! Refer to number 2 above.
    11. Are you really going to refer to Hall As ‘Tom T’ from this day forward? YES. Let”s go streaking!!!
    12. Did you type all of this just so you could reference Tom T Hall? Yes
    13. Are you embarrassed? Little bit.
    14. What do you have to say for yourself? I do solemnly swear to never drunk post on Lowetide again. Dib dib dib dob dob dob.
    15. Epilogue: Old Dogs, Children, and Watermelon Wine http://youtu.be/BqV9NZSGIa4

  53. marty62 says:

    John Chambers: It’s hard for me to rationalize that MacLellan has been the beneficiary of Hall’s lengthy defensive apprenticeship, as we would have witnessed some kind of arc where Hall demonstrated better defensive play during that time. He may have, but not in a way that was detrimental to his overall game.

    Mostly I think that MacLellan deserves a ton of credit for his work with Hall. I think the coach saw an enormous amount of raw talent that he could shape, and his investment in Hall is paying dividends.

    This. All. Day. Long. Face it.Eakins wasted 2 years of everyones life.

  54. rickithebear says:

    dustrock:
    So take out the dual Blues games and the Stars and we’re not looking horrible.

    Venus top 6 in WC 10/20 played 1-8-1
    Oct 8 @ #3 STL 3-1 L Talbot 2GA 1 ENG .933 SV%
    OCT 10 @ #6 NSH 2-0 L Talbot 2 GA .923 SV%
    Oct 13 @ #1 DAL 4-2L Nilsson 3GA 1ENG .941 SV%
    Oct 15 VS #3 STL 4-2 L Talbot 4GA .862 SV%
    Oct 25 VS LAK 3-2 L Talbot 3GA .912 SV% McDavid disallowed G
    Oct 27 @MIN 4-3 L Talbot 4GA .857 SV%
    Nov 8 @CHI 4-2 L Talbot 4GA .857 SV%
    ——————————————————— Nov 11 Nilsson starts 13/15 games
    Nov 14 @LAK 4-3 L Talbot 4GA .857 SV% gm 1/15
    Nov 18 VS CHI 4-2 OTL Nilsson 4GA .852 SV%
    Dec 4 vs DAL 2-1 OTW Nilsson 1GA .977 SV%

    Versus EC top 6 7-12 played 4-2-1
    Oct 21 VS #5 DET 3-1 W Talbot 1GA .966 SV%
    Oct 23 VS #2 WSH 7-4 L Nilsson 6GA .647 SV%
    OCT 29 VS #1 MTL 4-3 W Talbot 3GA .857 SV%
    ——————————————————–
    Nov 23 @ #2 WSH 1-0 L Nilsson 1GA .967 SV%
    Nov 27 @ #5 DET OTL Talbot 4GA .857 SV% gm 2/15
    Dec 2 VS #6 BOS 2-1 SOW Nilsson 2GA .950 SV%
    Dec 11 Vs #3 NYR 7-5 W Nilsson 5GA .853 SV%

    our Goalies:

    talbot 12GM 3-8-1
    1GA: 1/12 8.3% 1W vs DET
    2GA: 3/12 25% 1W @ CGY; 2L @STL; @ NSH
    —————————- 4/12 should win
    3GA: 2/12 16.7% 1W VS MTL; 1L @ LAK
    —————————- 2/12 chance to win
    4GA: 5/12 41.7% 4L vs STL; @MIN; @CHI; @LAK; 1 OTL @DET
    5GA: 1/12 8.3% 1L VS CGY
    ————————— 6/12 should not win

    Nilsson: 18gm 10-7-1
    1GA: 4/18 22.2% 3W @VAN; vs NJD; VS DAL; 1L AWSH
    2GA: 6/18 33.3% 4W vs PHI; @PIT; vs BOS; vs BUF; 2L vsPIT; @TOR
    ————————— 10/18 56.6% should win
    3GA: 4/18 22.2% 2W @ANA; vs SJS; 2L @DAL; @CAR
    ————————— 4/18 22.2 chance win
    4GA: 2/18 1L @ARI; 1OTL vs CHI
    5GA: 1/18 1W vs NYR
    6GA: 1/18 1L vs WSH
    ————————— 4/18 22.2% should not win

    Our next 3:
    @ #6 EC BOS
    @ #3 EC NYR
    @ #5 WC CHI
    we will have played
    20/32 62.5% games against the leagues top 12
    and
    13/50 26% against the bottom 18

    Our next 13gm to mid Jan.
    league rank of team
    @ #27 COL
    vs #18 WPG
    @ #21 VCR
    @ #23 CGY
    vs #4 LAK
    vs #26 ANA
    vs #19 ARZ
    vs #24 CAR
    vs #17 TMP
    vs #16 FLD
    @ #19 ARZ
    @ #22 SJS
    vs #23 CGY
    1 top 6 team LAK
    7 5RD-2HM against teams we are competing for final playoff spot.

  55. Bar_Qu says:

    gogliano,

    Thanks for that. I am without cable right now, which works for lots of things, but not hockey games generally.

    So I stand by my thought. The Oilers have a fair to middling chance of making the playoffs if they can garner 55+ points going away, guaranteed if they get 60+.

  56. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy:
    I needed to ree-post this from the GDT that LT linked to in his post.

    Its well written, true and prophetic:

    I will leave you with one more thought on the matter: Losing teams ALWAYS focus on the wrong thing. Always. They just can’t help it. This scenario reminds me of the time the Montreal Expos slipped in the standings and decided the problem was their All-Star catcher Gary Carter. Carter was a unique player (power-hitting catcher who could actually catch) and the Expos dealt him to the Mets for four guys you’ve never heard of, before or since.


    Losing organizations do supremely stupid things. In this way, the Taylor Hall trade rumors are less about Taylor Hall and more about the Edmonton Oilers. If you’re worried about a Taylor Hall trade, be worried about the organization entrusted with putting a good team on the ice. They are the same people who felt it was a good idea to start the season with two NHL centers and mud.

    That my friends is the worry. Simple, beautiful competence. There was a time when the Montreal Expos looked at their entire roster and decided the problem was their most uniquely-talented player. Don’t tell me it’s impossible, I’ve seen it before.

    The one reason you should feel confident it won’t happen? The Edmonton Oilers are an absolute laughingstock league-wide. If they trade Hall, they won’t get full value. If they don’t get full value, those $7 Stubhub Oilers tickets are going to be going for $3 or less.

    The Edmonton Oilers would be better off keeping Hall and trading management. It has come to this.

    Did I miss something, or has management suggested that they were thinking of trading Hall?

  57. Ryan says:

    Woodguy:
    Chris Wescott ‏@TheChrisWescott2h2 hours ago
    #Oilers D: Nurse-Sekera, Davidson-Gryba & Ference-Schultz. Nikitin, Klinkhammer and Pouliot are skating

    Interesting.

    Seems like McLellan is using Davidson to anchor the 2nd pair and then expose Ference-Schultz to lesser comp.

    I prefer that to Davidson-Schultz 2nd and Ference-Gryba 3rd.

    Subtract one injured Klefbomb and add in one aged Andrew Ference. Lordy, now that’s a downgrade isn’t it?

    I’d honestly rather see Niki play over Ference. I think he’s a better player and certainly has more tools in the box.

  58. Ryan says:

    steveb12344: Did I miss something, or has management suggested that they were thinking of trading Hall?

    There were rumors circling from credible sources when Mact was GM that Taylor Hall wasn’t untouchable and could be available for trade. Mact did not come out and dispel those rumors.

  59. AsiaOil says:

    The “poor boy” excuses for Ebs and RNH are 2 years out of date. They are 5 & 6 year VETERANS now and take up a collective $12 million in cap space. Forwards taking up this much cap and with this much experience need to do better than getting their heads kicked in by the Brassard line at home (for example). Drai and others have been sick as well. Saying that they “need” another $4 or $5 million player on their line to compete is simply wrong – they should be pushing the river and carrying a cheaper player. With Hall doing so well on his own – guess we know who was carrying who on the old kid lines. Purcell appear reborn – don’t be fooled – we will be able to sell high.

    Next year I would prefer to leave Drai at center and get a Fran Neilsen type on the 3rd line – bigger, capable of playing against top guys, has some offense (12-10-22 so far this season which is more than Crosby this season – what a dumb comparison) and a $2.75 million cap hit. Obviously recognize that Nilssen is 31 and that RNH is 22 – but I’m talking player “type” not a specific guy. Instead of Ebs I would prefer a Craig Smith type on RW. Again bigger, killer ES performance and a $4 million cap hit. Nilssen and Smith collectively make about $7 million – that’s value that RNH and Ebs are not delivering this season as we can see the W/WO Hall ES scoring numbers Woodguy tossed up.

    This will not be popular – don’t care about that – saying that MacT and Eakins were going to be tire-fire of epic proportions was not popular in the summer of 2013 either. We’ve got our key offensive forward pieces: Hall, CMD, Drai. Everyone else is a complimentary piece who needs to deliver size, defense and strong ES production at a good cap hit. Skilled size at a good price if you require a shorter description – like Pouliot, Nilssen and Smith. Then you use the extra dollars to bolster defense. Ebs and RNH are like keeping 2 Nissan 370Z in the garage when you already have a Ferrari, Lambo and Maserati. Sure the Z cars are nice – but Italian studs are better – and you still need a 4×4 for days when it snows and an F150 to haul the dirt bikers out for a run. It’s called balance and some folks seem to forget all about this when talking about their precious kids.

  60. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy,

    Ok I understand not liking Fayne’s game, and trying to get rid of his contract but there is absolutely no reason to play Ference over him, even if it is against his old team.

  61. Statsman says:

    Adam Wu:
    Note also that Type II supernovas arise from single stars, while Type IA supernovas are produced by binary systems, and this year Hall is mentoring a companion, something he has not done (or been asked to do) before.

    That is an awesome analogy. Just a couple of questions…
    Which of Hall and Draisatl should we consider the white dwarf in this binary system?
    Depending on your answer to the above question, has the white dwarf reached the Chandrasekhar limit yet?

  62. Stelio Kontos says:

    The big push is coming between the 26th and the 2nd of january. That gives klef a couple weeks, hopefully yak is back, and no idea on pouliot. McDavid isn’t likely back by then. The last key stretch is the last 9 games of the schedule. Turns out it is going to be a dog fight between teams undeserving of a playoff spot to take 2 spots from the much better central.

  63. stush18 says:

    Yeti: Stush – I think everyone is in agreement (especially LT) that he hasn’t played like the Nuge of last season since he got sick and needs to improve. Two questions: 1) is he now on an upward trajectory, returning to the full Nuge we know and love. 2) why did his game fall so badly – is there an injury to go with that sickness that he’s still recovering from?

    I know most posters here agree nuge is the reason hall and drai can take on the second toughs. And nuge is my fav oiler, over any including mcdavid, although drai is coming close.

    Just thought we could frame the issue differently. It’s been weeks since ebs injury and nuges sickness.

    It’s shitty this season has been clouded by injury. I would love to see where nuge would be without all these injuries. He was dynamite with hall and Leon. We’re those two zooming him?

    I really thought he would start carrying his own line and pushing the river at evens this year like hall does. A lot to ask, especially given his role, but I am hopeful he does.

  64. Woodguy says:

    leadfarmer:
    Woodguy,

    Ok I understand not liking Fayne’s game, and trying to get rid of his contract but there is absolutely no reason to play Ference over him, even if it is against his old team.

    Agreed 100%.

    I’d rather see Nikitin-Schultz as the 3rd pair.

    He wasn’t taking reps today so I don’t expect him to play in BOS.

    Hope I’m wrong.

    Also,

    That’s the state of the Oiler Dcorp.

    I’m *hoping* Nikitin plays.

    Man.

  65. Stelio Kontos says:

    AsiaOil,

    I’ll just say that Hall is actually an 8-9 million dollar player, he is just underpaid. RNH and Eberle are first liners on almost any team, but aren’t go to guys like hall is. They belong in their price range. They are in different leagues and need to be held to different standards. Not to mention Eberle just had major surgery.

  66. ashley says:

    From the blog post a year ago:

    The Edmonton Oilers would be better off keeping Hall and trading management. It has come to this.

    And that’s exactly what happened. Well done. Maybe Katz reads LT. Maybe he even posts.

  67. AsiaOil says:

    Hall is elite – full stop – CMD and Drai look to trend that way as well.

    I’d say that RNH and Ebs are both top line players on medium to low end teams. They are not IMHO top line players on SC contenders. Ebs is too suspect defensively and RNH does not produce enough ES offense (never has and and likely never will). Both are good finesse players but “tweeners” in terms of the distinction between elite and simply very good. I’d have both of them on the 2nd line of a SC team any day – but there’s that issue of salary in a cap league.

    Do you trade either of these guys today? No of course not unless there is a huge piece (big RH #1 dman) that is available. Drai and CMD’s contracts give you some time – but you’ve got to go for it in the 3rd years of CMD’s entry level deal.

    Stelio Kontos:
    AsiaOil,

    I’ll just say that Hall is actually an 8-9 million dollar player, he is just underpaid. RNH and Eberle are first liners on almost any team, but aren’t go to guys like hall is. They belong in their price range. They are in different leagues and need to be held to different standards. Not to mention Eberle just had major surgery.

  68. Adam Wu says:

    ashley:
    From the blog post a year ago:

    The Edmonton Oilers would be better off keeping Hall and trading management. It has come to this.

    And that’s exactly what happened.Well done.Maybe Katz reads LT.Maybe he even posts.

    They had to throw in a couple of draft picks to make the deal…

  69. Pouzar says:

    AsiaOil: The “poor boy” excuses for Ebs and RNH are 2 years out of date.

    Is this a real post?

    Did you even watch hockey in 14-15?
    Seriously GTFOutta here.

    Garbage.

  70. Adam Wu says:

    Statsman: That is an awesome analogy. Just a couple of questions…
    Which of Hall and Draisatl should we consider the white dwarf in this binary system?
    Depending on your answer to the above question, has the white dwarf reached the Chandrasekhar limit yet?

    Hard to say as of yet. We need more observations. (But note that you can get a Type IA two merging white dwarfs). The Chandra limit has to be reached before a supernova occurs, so the real question would be, has the supernova already occurred, or is it still to come, with what we’ve seen to date merely repeated novas?

  71. geowal says:

    Just caught up on yesterday’s thread. I’ll think twice about quoting announcers!

    As for this thread I’d be happy to see Hall as captain, though in terms of style I’d prefer Nurse eventually. However I’m not a big fan of giving a C to such young players and would like to see a decision made soon. So I think Hall gets it as result of youth of McDavid and Nurse. Full credit to Hall though, he’s earning it.

  72. Dr. Taboggan says:

    AsiaOil,

    Eberle was 19th in 5v5 points last year and RNH was 40th according to WOI. To say that RNH does not score enough 5v5 to be a top line player is false. Eberle, when healthy, scores at a rate high enough to make up for any defensive deficiencies.

  73. geowal says:

    If we’re talking defensive ability, how is RNH in terms of SCA/60? We look at defensemen this way, a peak at this point for the forwards might be useful.

  74. Statsman says:

    Adam Wu: Hard to say as of yet. We need more observations. (But note that you can get a Type IA two merging white dwarfs). The Chandra limit has to be reached before a supernova occurs, so the real question would be, has the supernova already occurred, or is it still to come, with what we’ve seen to date merely repeated novas?

    I hope that the supernova has not yet occured as that would sort of imply that the burnout phase will follow shortly thereafter. I am good with the recurring novae theory in that case.

  75. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Dr. Taboggan,

    and wasn’t RNH right up near the top in 5×5 goals last year? Virtually all of his goals were 5×5 as I recall.

  76. Kmart99 says:

    Oilers:
    2 games out of the playoffs
    2 games behind in the Austin Matthews Race.

    BecauseOilers

  77. LadiesloveSmid says:

    AsiaOil,

    how many RWs have outproduced Eberle the last 4 years? do you have to be top 3 in RW production or PK to be a “cup team top line player”? For instance, Justin Williams was the top RW in LA for 2 cups. Nathan Horton with BOS.

    RNH was just inside the top 90 in ES production last season (21 years old) while other teams would plan to matchup against him or….. Roy/18YO Draisaitl. Wait until the forward lineup is fully healthy. We all know something has been up with Eberle after coming back from injury and Khaira has been his other winger. Meanwhile still taking top match ups. Try lighting it up in those circumstances.

  78. Ice Sage says:

    Woodguy:
    PACIFIC DIVISION STANDINGS VIA GAMES

    LAK +11
    ARI 0
    SJS 0
    ————–
    VAN 0
    CAL -1
    EDM -2
    ANA -2

    Its not just 3rd place that ups for grabs, its 2nd and 3rd.

    Team that have the same pts % are ranked via ROW.

    ARI scored with 16 seconds left yesterday to tie CAR then lost the bonus point in OT, otherwise they’d be 5th instead of 2nd.

    Its stupid close and will be for a while.

    Wide – freaking – open.

    And 4th and 5th and 6th and 7th are up for grabs. What a logjam: as someone posted, Bettman’s wet dream. Agree that this is going to go down to the wire and 3 point games will determine.

  79. blainer says:

    Woodguy:
    Chris Wescott ‏@TheChrisWescott2h2 hours ago
    #Oilers D: Nurse-Sekera, Davidson-Gryba & Ference-Schultz. Nikitin, Klinkhammer and Pouliot are skating

    Interesting.

    Seems like McLellan is using Davidson to anchor the 2nd pair and then expose Ference-Schultz to lesser comp.

    I prefer that to Davidson-Schultz 2nd and Ference-Gryba 3rd.

    I know the coach’s don’t always agree with the analytics people.. but jeebus take a look at what Shultz and Ference are as a pair please coach. You simply cannot play them together.

    The thought of playing ference should never even enter the coach’s mind.

    I am not happy with NN either but he is a much better option than Ference.

    Nilsson or Talbot will need at least a 947% to pull out a win in any game Ference plays.

    My yelling at the TV/60 is about to go back to normal With TACAF in the lineup !

  80. Adam Wu says:

    godot10: Hall was +5 under Krueger.-15 under Eakins the following season.What the dementor was teaching was stupid.

    Since when has +/- been a useful stat for assessing an individual player’s defensive ability, or even his progress in learning defensive play? Or anything else with respect to an individual player at all, really?

    When Yak’s +/- was terrible, you and many others, rightly defended him, and criticized those trying to use that stat against him.

    But apparently, when it is to attack Dallas Eakins, using a flawed and intellectually dishonest stat is A-OK for you.

    You disappoint me.

  81. commonfan14 says:

    Anyone know the rules around whether it’s possible to extend Schultz prior to trading him and then retain salary on both his current deal and the one that hasn’t kicked in yet?

    Seems like the only way he’s movable for a significant return.

  82. blainer says:

    Lately there seems to be about maybe 2% of the posters here who would like to trade Nuge.

    To that I say.. thank Gord we have a GM who just traded a top three player in the world and got his ass kicked.

    Just don’t see him making that mistake again.

    It was only a few short weeks ago that there was a lot of chatter about trading Hall.. where is that talk now. ? Hall has shut us all up.

    Nuge will do the same to the 2%’ers in the next few weeks. remember he went on a run late last year..

    that is coming again. this insane talk will stop soon .. he will see to it the same way Hall did.

    You do not trade a 22 year old center playing 20 mins a night plus taking on the tough’s and win that trade.. just doesn’t happen

  83. blainer says:

    Pouzar: Is this a real post?

    Did you even watch hockey in 14-15?
    Seriously GTFOutta here.

    Garbage.

    You sir are a solid Nuge supporter .

    As am I .. watch out for this team when we get healthy..

    Not trading Nuge will be the smartest move Chia wil Make .!!

  84. Woodguy says:

    AsiaOil:
    The “poor boy” excuses for Ebs and RNH are 2 years out of date. They are 5 & 6 year VETERANS now and take up a collective $12 million in cap space. Forwards taking up this much cap and with this much experience need to do better than getting their heads kicked in by the Brassard line at home (for example). Drai and others have been sick as well. Saying that they “need” another $4 or $5 million player on their line to compete is simply wrong – they should be pushing the river and carrying a cheaper player. With Hall doing so well on his own – guess we know who was carrying who on the old kid lines. Purcell appear reborn – don’t be fooled – we will be able to sell high.

    Next year I would prefer to leave Drai at center and get a Fran Neilsen type on the 3rd line – bigger, capable of playing against top guys, has some offense (12-10-22 so far this season which is more than Crosby this season – what a dumb comparison) and a $2.75 million cap hit. Obviously recognize that Nilssen is 31 and that RNH is 22 – but I’m talking player “type” not a specific guy. Instead of Ebs I would prefer a Craig Smith type on RW. Again bigger, killer ES performance and a $4 million cap hit. Nilssen and Smith collectively make about $7 million – that’s value that RNH and Ebs are not delivering this season as we can see the W/WO Hall ES scoring numbers Woodguy tossed up.

    This will not be popular – don’t care about that – saying that MacT and Eakins were going to be tire-fire of epic proportions was not popular in the summer of 2013 either. We’ve got our key offensive forward pieces: Hall, CMD, Drai. Everyone else is a complimentary piece who needs to deliver size, defense and strong ES production at a good cap hit. Skilled size at a good price if you require a shorter description – like Pouliot, Nilssen and Smith. Then you use the extra dollars to bolster defense. Ebs and RNH are like keeping 2 Nissan 370Z in the garage when you already havea Ferrari, Lambo and Maserati. Sure the Z cars are nice – but Italian studs are better – and you still need a 4×4 for days when it snows and an F150 to haul the dirt bikers out for a run. It’s called balance and some folks seem to forget all about this when talking about their precious kids.

    If Eberle was healthy and this was his 30th game this year I’d agree more with you.

    He’s not though and its his 17th game.

    Coming off a shoulder injury is tough too as it seriously affects how much down pressure you can put on a stick.

    His stick handling and scoring are not affected, but his ability to battle is and we can’t ignore that.

    You will also see that many PvP lines have 3 good and high paid players.

    Is Kopitar less of a player because he has Brown and Gaborik on his wings?

    One of the best PvP lines is Ladd-Little-Wheeler. There is an argument that they are the best 3 forwards on that team.

    Is Backes less of a player because he results are better with Steen and Brower?

    Sure, sometimes you can plug a lesser light with 2 good NHLers and not miss a beat.

    Bergeron-Marchand are doing well with Connolly, but that’s a former 6th overall draft pick with 166 NHL games under his belt.

    Sometime Pearson takes Brown spot with Kopitar.

    What I disagree with is holding RNH to a standard that is :

    “Haul around a guy who missed camp and has one shoulder and a 21 year old rookie from the 3rd round to play against the best and fuck you if you can’t do it”

    That’s just not fair and you know it.

  85. Lewis Grant says:

    Seymore: I am pissed that they have activated Ference and he is practicing on the 3rd Defence pair. What ever happened to we are in the business to win or they will play the best lineup. If Ference plays the loss is pretty much guaranteed. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    This is likely one of the last games of Ference’s career – maybe even the last. He may no longer be an actual NHL player, but he was a good soldier, captain, and all-around good guy who chose not to make a fuss over giving up the captaincy.

    I would be OK with giving him his farewell in Boston.

  86. stush18 says:

    blainer,

    To be fair, I’ve never advocated a nuge trade. When the tin cones to move someone out, I’ve said ebs or yak should go, with nuge moved to wing if necessary.

  87. theres oil in virginia says:

    AsiaOil: With Hall doing so well on his own

    Hall is on his own?

  88. Ryan says:

    Woodguy: If Eberle was healthy and this was his 30th game this year I’d agree more with you.

    He’s not though and its his 17th game.

    Coming off a shoulder injury is tough too as it seriously affects how much down pressure you can put on a stick.

    His stick handling and scoring are not affected, but his ability to battle is and we can’t ignore that.

    You will also see that many PvP lines have 3 good and high paid players.

    Is Kopitar less of a player becausehe has Brown and Gaborik on his wings?

    One of the best PvP lines is Ladd-Little-Wheeler.There is an argument that they are the best 3 forwards on that team.

    Is Backes less of a player because he results are better with Steen and Brower?

    Sure, sometimes you can plug a lesser light with 2 good NHLers and not miss a beat.

    Bergeron-Marchand are doing well with Connolly, but that’s a former 6th overall draft pick with 166 NHL games under his belt.

    Sometime Pearson takes Brown spot with Kopitar.

    What I disagree with is holding RNH to a standard that is :

    “Haul around a guy who missed camp and has one shoulder and a 21 year old rookie from the 3rd round to play against the best and fuck you if you can’t do it”

    That’s just not fair and you know it.

    Quoted for sheer awesomeness.

  89. PaperDesigner says:

    Hey guys, remember when half the fan base wanted to trade Hall because of a short run of comparatively poor games? Ha, what a gong show. On an unrelated note, Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle have been poor of late, so how about we deal them for picks?

  90. Dicky94 says:

    Maybe I’m just being really optimistic here or a few beers in while sitting in my fish shack. But I have a funny feeling Nikki is going to perform really well in the next few months. If anything he should help the pp with his shot from the point. Hopefully he bought a new helmet too. Last one was pretty tight on his head. Go Nikki!! This is what a five game winning streak does to you.

  91. Lowetide says:

    PaperDesigner:
    Hey guys, remember when half the fan base wanted to trade Hall because of a short run of comparatively poor games? Ha, what a gong show. On an unrelated note, Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle have been poor of late, so how about we deal them for picks?

    This is it, exactly. Get good players, keep good players. Oilers fans just aren’t used to having more than two or three good ones.

  92. AsiaOil says:

    I’ll ignore Puzar’s data-less, class-less reply – really grow up and try argue like an adult

    Taking last year and this year up to last night into account – only centers with over 100 minutes – RNH is #72 center in ES points/60. Sample size issues recognized – Drai is #1 and CMD is #5 – but those guys both look to be ES monsters going forward. This is not news – I argued with Bruce when RNH was drafted about his ES numbers – and not much has changed about that argument. RNH will always be a great 2 way player and PP witch who is challenged to put up numbers at ES. Funny how the draft profile characterizes players (good and bad) 5 years later. As for the other poor RNH excuses – Hall has a rookie and broken down vet on his line – see we can frame things any way you want 🙂

    RNH is a great player – I like him a lot – but he’s complimentary not a driver. For many years he was the best (only) thing we had. But that has changed and we have 3 drivers (Hall, RNH, CMD) and we will have to pay the latter two in full soon enough. What we need going forward is complementary skill: bigger, stronger on the wall, still skilled but less expensive. Pouliot is one guy, Purcell fakes it well enough for now, Yak may be a 3rd. We also need a #1 dman and likely a #1 goalie who both be expensive. Same argument for Ebs – great little player and if you haven’t noticed my comp for him is a guy who scored 500 in Mullins. But Ebs is also complimentary to bigger skilled players and we have the opposite issue. I like Craig Smith in Nash a ton, bigger, great shot, ES stud and $2 million less – that’s what we need to compliment CMD, Drai and Hall going forward.

  93. Pouzar says:

    AsiaOil:
    The “poor boy” excuses for Ebs and RNH are 2 years out of date. They are 5 & 6 year VETERANS now and take up a collective $12 million in cap space. Forwards taking up this much cap and with this much experience need to do better than getting their heads kicked in by the Brassard line at home (for example). Drai and others have been sick as well. Saying that they “need” another $4 or $5 million player on their line to compete is simply wrong – they should be pushing the river and carrying a cheaper player. With Hall doing so well on his own – guess we know who was carrying who on the old kid lines. Purcell appear reborn – don’t be fooled – we will be able to sell high.

    Next year I would prefer to leave Drai at center and get a Fran Neilsen type on the 3rd line – bigger, capable of playing against top guys, has some offense (12-10-22 so far this season which is more than Crosby this season – what a dumb comparison) and a $2.75 million cap hit. Obviously recognize that Nilssen is 31 and that RNH is 22 – but I’m talking player “type” not a specific guy. Instead of Ebs I would prefer a Craig Smith type on RW. Again bigger, killer ES performance and a $4 million cap hit. Nilssen and Smith collectively make about $7 million – that’s value that RNH and Ebs are not delivering this season as we can see the W/WO Hall ES scoring numbers Woodguy tossed up.

    This will not be popular – don’t care about that – saying that MacT and Eakins were going to be tire-fire of epic proportions was not popular in the summer of 2013 either. We’ve got our key offensive forward pieces: Hall, CMD, Drai. Everyone else is a complimentary piece who needs to deliver size, defense and strong ES production at a good cap hit. Skilled size at a good price if you require a shorter description – like Pouliot, Nilssen and Smith. Then you use the extra dollars to bolster defense. Ebs and RNH are like keeping 2 Nissan 370Z in the garage when you already havea Ferrari, Lambo and Maserati. Sure the Z cars are nice – but Italian studs are better – and you still need a 4×4 for days when it snows and an F150 to haul the dirt bikers out for a run. It’s called balance and some folks seem to forget all about this when talking about their precious kids.

    WOW!

    LOOK AT ALL THE DATA!

    *head spinning*

  94. stephen sheps says:

    Lowetide: This is it, exactly. Get good players, keep good players. Oilers fans just aren’t used to having more than two or three good ones.

    This is exactly the case – and of course when the team did have more than 2 or 3 good players, they’d inevitably be sold for picks and spare parts. (I still firmly believe that Weight and Guerin deserved better, but perhaps Sather’s finest work as GM was in that era, making the most of what his limited budget and even more limited autonomy could provide). Our fanbase is incredible for its collective memory – a collective memory that is mostly filled sadness, disappointment and frustration as far too few of us are old enough to remember more than a trace of the glory days (myself included – I remember ’87 & ’88 but 1990 will always be my cup).

    This new era of having many nice things is simply confusing, and perhaps it’s a sort of traumatic repetition – we talk ourselves into trading away the talent because that is all we’ve ever really known. Let’s break the cycle; no need to even think about trading any of the ‘core’ until we see what they can all do together over an extended period of time.

  95. marty62 says:

    Some of us old timers remember that the Glory Oilers had their dark days too. I recall after they shit the bed in the playoffs in 82 against the LA Kings there was a major out cry in the media that the Oilers had to dump some of the kids… Sather believed in his young core thankfully or I dont think we would have seen those 4 cups in 5 years…

  96. Dicky94 says:

    Pouzar,

    I used to have an 83 Mercury Cougar. It was really fast and reliable. I used to fly by Mustangs and almost beat a Grand National once. We need more 83 Cougars.

  97. Tire Fire says:

    Pouzar: WOW!

    LOOK AT ALL THE DATA!

    *head spinning*

    Hahahahah. Perfect.

  98. LadiesloveSmid says:

    AsiaOil:
    I’ll ignore Puzar’s data-less, class-less reply – really grow up and try argue like an adult

    As for the other poor RNH excuses – Hall has a rookie and broken down vet on his line – see we can frame things any way you want

    your data was…? salaries? Nielsen’s boxcars?

    is Hall dragging Drai with him? I’d argue that’s a 2-way relationship. Eberle clearly isn’t himself and Khaira isn’t top 6 in the AHL. Draisaitl leads the team in on ice SCF/60, 1 more than Hall who he’s a drag on. Purcell’s established as a complementary player to skill, look at his numbers in TB. Just don’t play him with Lander/Letestu.

    that isn’t “framing it how you want”, that’s flailing half-assed narratives when too many people aren’t agreeing with you. Where’s the “class” in that

  99. delooper says:

    marty62,

    For some reason I remember the “get rid of Coffee” slogan being repeated louder and more often than any of the others.

  100. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Eberle has 2 ES points in 17 games. Khaira sub .5PPG in his best AHL stretch to date. Meanwhile taking top match-ups.

    Where are we getting that RNH is the problem here?

  101. marty62 says:

    delooper:
    marty62,

    For some reason I remember the “get rid of Coffee” slogan being repeated louder and more often than any of the others.

    Yes well look at the player he was.. Alot of Oiler fans prefer the Jason Smith type defenders…. Once Coffee and Huddy started playing together that talk died down a bit……

  102. jm363561 says:

    Woodguy:
    CorsiHockeyLeague ‏@CorsiHL7m7 minutes ago
    #Oilera update – 5v5 stats this season:

    Oilers w/ Hall on ice: 28GF, 15GA (65.1% GF%)

    Oilers w/o Hall on ice: 24GF, 50GA (32.4% GF%)
    =====
    Astonishing stat. Help please – per the league tables, our goals For / Against are 82 / 90, -8. On the stat above 52 / 65, -13.

  103. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Normally Asia, your posts are pretty solid, but have to disagree with you here. Nuge and Eberle will improve as the season goes on. Nuge was comparable to Toews on even strength scoring last season.

    The whole system on the Oilers was messed up for years but now is the time for patience. And that approach has been rewarded already with the slow start. And it will continue to get better.

  104. admiralmark says:

    marty62: Yes well look at the player he was..Alot of Oiler fans prefer the Jason Smith type defenders….Once Coffee and Huddy started playing together that talk died down a bit……

    Which of course is the reason we need to stop ragging on Schultz and stop trying to trade him!…………. I keed i keed.

  105. marty62 says:

    Heres a thought, before we start trading away guys, lets get a little look at these 3 pairs on offense

    Hall – Drai

    Nuge – Ebs

    Mcdavid – Yak

    Because of injuries and Drai starting in the minors, we havent seen what this looks like in an NHL game. I think Chia is smart enough that he wants to see the above for a few games before he starts trading away players like Nuge and Eberle

  106. flyfish1168 says:

    The best trade that never happened with RNH will be the best one.

  107. marty62 says:

    admiralmark: Which of course is the reason we need to stop ragging on Schultz and stop trying to trade him!…………. I keed i keed.

    We on this blog may rag on Schultz but I dont think Chia has given up on him yet. That will be a summertime decision I think

  108. LadiesloveSmid says:

    marty62:
    Heres a thought, before we start trading away guys, lets get a little look at these 3 pairs on offense

    Hall – Drai

    Nuge – Ebs

    Mcdavid – Yak

    Because of injuries and Drai starting in the minors, we havent seen what this looks like in an NHL game.I think Chia is smart enough that he wants to see the above for a few games before he starts trading away players like Nuge and Eberle

    Seeing a top 9 of:
    Hall-Dari-Purcell
    Khaira/Hendricks-RNH-Eberle
    Pouliot-McDavid-Yak

    is what keeps me going.

    It’s nice that they’ve gone on this streak and are in the mix, but I’m thinking some ugly games coming up with a depleted lineup is gonna hurt morale around here.

  109. blainer says:

    AsiaOil:
    I’ll ignore Puzar’s data-less, class-less reply – really grow up and try argue like an adult

    Taking last year and this year up to last night into account – only centers with over 100 minutes – RNH is #72 center in ES points/60. Sample size issues recognized – Drai is #1 and CMD is #5 – but those guys both look to be ES monsters going forward. This is not news – I argued with Bruce when RNH was drafted about his ES numbers – and not much has changed about that argument. RNH will always be a great 2 way player and PP witch who is challenged to put up numbers at ES. Funny how the draft profile characterizes players (good and bad) 5 years later. As for the other poor RNH excuses – Hall has a rookie and broken down vet on his line – see we can frame things any way you want

    RNH is a great player – I like him a lot – but he’s complimentary not a driver. For many years he was the best (only) thing we had. But that has changed and we have 3 drivers (Hall, RNH, CMD) and we will have to pay the latter two in full soon enough. What we need going forward is complementary skill: bigger, stronger on the wall, still skilled but less expensive. Pouliot is one guy, Purcell fakes it well enough for now, Yak may be a 3rd. We also need a #1 dman and likely a #1 goalie who both be expensive. Same argument for Ebs – great little player and if you haven’t noticed my comp for him is a guy who scored 500 in Mullins. But Ebs is also complimentary to bigger skilled players and we have the opposite issue. I like Craig Smith in Nash a ton, bigger, great shot, ES stud and $2 million less – that’s what we need to compliment CMD, Drai and Hall going forward.

    Crosby – 19 pts

    Tavares 22 pts

    Stamkos 22 pts

    Towes 17 pts

    RNH 20 pts

    I could go on.. this a tough league. Those are all Elite players.

    RNH holds up well to all those players at the age of only 22.

    I am quite confident that you will not be commenting on this player in this way very soon.

    When this team gets healthy other teams will be matching hard against the Hall line.

    I would like to see a stacked line of RNH CMD and Eberle.

    Hoppy will be a point per game plus.. Chia is no hurry to trade another Seguin as he went supernova AFTER the trade. Unless of course Doughty is on the table and that ain’t happening..

    Fix the D in the off season.

  110. admiralmark says:

    marty62: We on this blog may rag on Schultz but I dont think Chia has given up on him yet.That will be a summertime decision I think

    I’m holding out for hopefully a trade deadline deal. But I think you may be right.

  111. marty62 says:

    LadiesloveSmid,

    yeah if they lose 3 or more everyone will be trying to trade Hall again… never ends….

  112. Oil2Oilers says:

    Out of the currently available options I would choose;

    Nurse-Sekera
    Nikitin-Fayne
    Davidson-Gryba

    I hope in the spring to see an extended Davidson-Reinhart or even Kelfbom-Reinhart. Seasoning Reinhart into a top 6 defender or washing him out seems pretty important business for the team.

  113. jm363561 says:

    Dicky94:
    Maybe I’m just being really optimistic here or a few beers in while sitting in my fish shack. But I have a funny feeling Nikki is going to perform really well in the next few months. If anything he should help the pp with his shot from the point.Hopefully he bought a new helmet too. Last one was pretty tight on his head. Go Nikki!!This is what a five game winning streak does to you.

    Who needs fancy stats when a trip to the fridge (and a quick perusal of the data on Beer on Ice) gives you all you need? We need more posts like this! Hope you are right about NN. For statistical completeness could you report how many six packs had to be consumed, and the alcohol content, to get this “funny feeling”???. Maybe all the Corsi fans should sink a few cold ones to help them understand why MFayne is in the AHL!!

    Beer and spreadsheets. Man, I love the diversity on this site.

  114. bendelson says:

    AsiaOil,

    It’s interesting you mentioned Craig Smith. The other night, I was contemplating what would constitute a ‘balanced’ trade involving both RNH and Eberle at this point in time. The closest I came to something ‘somewhat’ logical was Seth Jones and Craig Smith. Based on your comments, I assume YOU make this move in a heartbeat and work hard to find a solid 3C next summer? Fair?

  115. AsiaOil says:

    Nuge always got over-used when we had zero options. Last year’s stats:

    Taves is #13 center @ 2.17 ES PPG
    RNH is # 39 center @ 1.92 ES PPG

    Yes comparable – but pointless – he’s also comparable in this sense to Mike Ribeiro and Jussi Jokinen.
    But who is saying RNH is not a good hockey player? Certainly not me. I’m simply saying we may have 2 better ES centers (which is pretty bloody unbelievable) and if RNH is the bait that gets us a #1 RH defenseman then the team is further ahead. If someone wants to trade us a #1 RH dman for Yak and Purcell – please identify this target and text Chia immediately.

    Nobody is saying RNH is a bad player, nobody is saying that RNH is worthless, no one is saying that RNH cannot help a team, no one is saying trade him for draft picks. This is all about balance and using your cap space to best effect. I’ll say it again. If RNH can get us a first pair minute munching RH defenseman who pushes the river (and you need to trade a serious player to get that guy) then the team is much further ahead than having him play 3rd fiddle behind Drai and CMD with lesser players. Royal flushes need more than just jacks and queens.

    Some people want to smear anyone who critiques RNH and Ebs as clueless – but that requires putting words into people’s mouths. Let me be clear – RNH and Ebs are good hockey players – I just think the team will be better with a different mix of good hockey players. People always say take BPA then trade to address need – here is a chance to see if people actually believe that – or are just happy being fan boys.

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Normally Asia, your posts are pretty solid, but have to disagree with you here. Nuge and Eberle will improve as the season goes on. Nuge was comparable to Toews on even strength scoring last season.

    The whole system on the Oilers was messed up for years but now is the time for patience. And that approach has been rewarded already with the slow start. And it will continue to get better.

  116. flyfish1168 says:

    In time I would like to see RNH used as a winger/center in the top 6 rotation. This works well for Dallas with Benn and Seguin. JMHO

  117. slopitch says:

    I’m in the camp that wouldn’t move Nuge until McDavid plays 100 games. At all (unless it’s for Crosby).

    At that point, if they still haven’t acquired a #1 dman you consider it. I’m not sure it’s necessary though – it maybe ok to roll with Nurse, Sekera, Klefbom.

    Speaking of #1 dman. It seems Chirelli is content out waiting Snow on his ask for Hamonic. With Klefbom out a Hamonic pickup would sure boost the team. You could announce the trade at noon for the Jaimeson show and he could still play tomorrow night 🙂

  118. Woodguy says:

    jm363561:

    That tweet is only 5v5 play.

    Then NHL numbers are all game states.

  119. Water Fire says:

    Nuge has been playing toughs without consistent help. He never complains or seems mopey, he plays sick at 110%, he nearly saws off. Not many other centres do that, seriously. I think he’s a genius player.

    Every great player needs help. Gretzky didn’t win again after being sold. Although he almost did which is a testament to his outrageous will and skill. Still the Gretzky Kings were not the Gretzkyless Oilers. Were are looking at that again – it’s nobody’s team, it’s a team of devastatingly skilled forwards of which CMD will almost certainly become the most dominant.

    Nuge needs players to compliment him as most do. I’d play him between Hall and Neon. They play the toughs and destroy them, then Connor follows up with a quality shooter and a quality board-man and it’s scorched earth.

    Which line scores more? Healthy competition.

  120. Halfwise says:

    AsiaOil: Nobody is saying RNH is a bad player, nobody is saying that RNH is worthless, no one is saying that RNH cannot help a team, no one is saying trade him for draft picks. This is all about balance and using your cap space to best effect.

    Nuge is tied up at $6M per year. CMD is on his entry level deal for this season and two more.

    What is the rush to move Nuge, exactly?

  121. Zelepukin says:

    slopitch:
    I’m in the camp that wouldn’t move Nuge until McDavid plays 100 games. At all (unless it’s for Crosby).

    Ya you do absolutely nothing until you see how fast and far these unicorns can run together.

  122. Lowetide says:

    I am going to start timing people out. Thanks.

  123. speeds says:

    AsiaOil,

    There is, IMO, a relatively big difference between moving RNH and Eberle though.

    I don’t see the need to look at moving RNH (barring a great deal) before the team plays together for awhile and we see how that looks, and also before exhausting other avenues by, say, August 2016. Even then not sure I’d do it, but what’s the rush prior to that time?

  124. Water Fire says:

    bendelson:
    AsiaOil,

    It’s interesting you mentioned Craig Smith.The other night, I was contemplating what would constitute a ‘balanced’ trade involving both RNH and Eberle at this point in time.The closest I came to something ‘somewhat’ logical was Seth Jones and Craig Smith.Based on your comments, I assume YOU make this move in a heartbeat and work hard to find a solid 3C next summer?Fair?

    For me Nuge gets those two straight up with a lower pick and prospect. Pedigree, established level of abililty etc.

    I would have to be convinced Jones is the real deal still.

  125. godot10 says:

    Adam Wu: Since when has +/- been a useful stat for assessing an individual player’s defensive ability, or even his progress in learning defensive play? Or anything else with respect to an individual player at all, really?

    For elite players, plus/minus is not a bad stat, because they are always playing the best players on the opposition. One doesn’t have to worry about context of usage as one does with an average player.

    Hall was also 55% or so Corsi under Krueger vs. 45% with Eakins the following season.

  126. tcho says:

    Canucks losing to the Blackhawks. So sad.

  127. jm363561 says:

    Woodguy: That tweet is only 5v5 play.

    Then NHL numbers are all game states.

    Thanks for taking the time to clarify that. Incredible effort by TH.

  128. AsiaOil says:

    Agree completely Speeds – I only move Nuge if a #1 RH dman is coming back and I’m in no bloody hurry to do anything. Let the cap crunch hit – know your targets ahead of time – then get the damn guy. If nuge is the price so be it and I’m fine with that since we have Drai and CMD. There is no rush and in the mean time it’s good for nuge to know that the bar has been raised. Eventually one of the three centers gets moved for the right dman and having competition is good.

    Ebs is a different issue and I would be inclined to keep him if not for the price tag compared to Yak. Need to see a bit more of Yak to make sure it’s the right move. Ebs for Hamonic is a fair deal but not for NYI since RW is not a need – need a 3rd party like NASH to get something done there.

    speeds:
    AsiaOil,

    There is, IMO, a relatively big difference between moving RNH and Eberle though.

    I don’t see the need to look at moving RNH (barring a great deal) before the team plays together for awhile and we see how that looks, and also before exhausting other avenues by, say, August 2016.Even then not sure I’d do it, but what’s the rush prior to that time?

  129. Really? says:

    godot10:
    People forget that Hall was going supernova during Krueger’s season.He was 2nd in scoring in the Western Conference in an all Western Conference schedule.He nearly willed the Oilers to the playoffs that season.

    MacT and Eakins believed Hall was the problem and put a jackboot to his throat for two seasons.They explicitly came in saying that they were going to change Taylor Hall’s game.And they did…taking him from 55% Corsi to 45% Corsi.

    Hall is “free” again.McLellan, like Krueger, lets his alpha dogs run.McLellan has a much better roster, and much better systems.But Krueger would have fixed his systems once he had gotten a proven assistant coach.

    It is very interesting that Hall is going “supernova” this year and is playing a far better 200 foot game while managing his turnovers much better. Could this, in any way, be attributed to Eakins and MacT hammering home the need to play both offensively and defensively?

  130. Really? says:

    Adam Wu,

    Exactly right.

  131. AsiaOil says:

    Ahhh……no.

    Eakins and MacT hammered home a few things – but that was not one of them. Taylor Hall is simply happy to be working with competent professionals who know how to maximize his talents – and the results speak for themselves.

    Really?: It is very interesting that Hall is going “supernova” this year and is playing a far better 200 foot game while managing his turnovers much better. Could this, in any way, be attributed to Eakins and MacT hammering home the need to play both offensively and defensively?

  132. Caramel Obvious says:

    I’ve never thought RNH was as good as the hype. Nonetheless, trading him is a terrible idea. To wit:

    Remember when Asiaoil wanted to trade RNH and Eberle for Shea Weber and a decent forward. I do.

    That would be one terrible trade. Man.

    So sure I’d trade one of those guys for a #1 D. But you want to trade both for a guy in his thirties. That’s simply awful.

    Neither RNH nor Eberle is going to get you a #1 D. Until they do, trading them is a bad idea. That’s why people hate the idea. RNH isn’t going to get you P.K. Subban. He might get you some generic guy with a good reputation. That’s not a winning proposition.

  133. oilswell says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Neither RNH nor Eberle is going to get you a #1 D.Until they do, trading them is a bad idea.

    I keep hearing this and related arguments, like OEL not being available.

    If one believes that one can’t get a #1D for RNH or Eberle, shouldn’t one value a #1D more than either RNH or Eberle? And thus be at least theoretically tolerant of the idea of trading RNH for such a player?

    I’m not sure why some are piling onto AsiaOil here. He’s clearly not trying to actively trade RNH, only establishing a reasoned argument for the conditions for the trade.

    His rationale is founded on a theory of roster effectiveness maximization in a cap league. I think he has done a great job of making this theory explicit and clear, and I might suggest that it would be a better argument to attack that theory rather than suggesting AsiaOil doesn’t love RNH enough.

    The theory is strong, but perhaps there are reasonable arguments against it. For example:

    1. Unicorns + Mustang-D >> 2-scoring-lines + Maserati-D. Resilience in face of injury, for example.
    2. goal-diff/$ >> ES-points/$.
    3. We will fill the #1D slot internally before RNH’s contract becomes a problem.
    4. Draisaitl@RW + RNH@3C >> Draisaitl@2C + $3MM@3C + $3MM upgrade elsewhere

  134. stevezie says:

    oilswell,

    I think most people (not everyone) are down with the idea of winning any given trade. Taylor Hall is amazing, but obviously we win a deal for Jamie Benn and a second so we make that deal. Anyone here who wouldn’t trade RNH for Subban is being silly.

    I think most people who say “don’t trade Eberle!” are pretty close to Caramel’s position. Basically, it’s a “devil you know” kind of scenario except the devil we know is 1) Good and B) Undervalued, so we don’t like the odds of an upgrade. I think the common fear is we move him for talent that’s ether declining or unproven, and neither of those suit our present needs as much an established player starting his prime on a secure and acceptable contract.

    But yes, like you, I reject the idea of “untouchable”. Everyone is theoretically touchable. Even The Kid.

  135. Lowetide says:

    My objection to trading Nuge (I have no objection to Asia, he is a long term member and very welcome here) is the Oilers dont have another veteran C to replace. If you trade Nuge plus something of real value and get Hanzal and OEL (as an example), I have no issue.

    The trouble is your 2C’s aside from Nuge are basically rookies.

  136. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    That makes sense. I have long thought Hanzel is the ideal 2c for us. I know you were throwing out a fake hypothetical deal, but i like it.

  137. Thoughts on the Oilers Winning Streak, Nikitin, Nurse + Radio Spot | The SuperFan says:

    […] Oilers are in tough after losing Klefbom, and I think they’ve made it harder on themselves by calling up Nikitin to play next to Schultz. […]

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