WILL THE NUGE BE HERE WHEN THE SWALLOWS COME BACK TO CAPISTRANO?

My Dad always taught me when there’s smoke, there is fire. Seems to me that we have heard these Nuge rumors enough to suspect something is in fact brewing in regard to the Oilers young C.

  • Quoting the article: Chiarelli had no comment on this report, neither confirming nor issuing a denial when reached. And of course, Nashville general manager David Poile chose to deal Jones to Columbus for Ryan Johansen instead. What it tells us is that Chiarelli sees Nugent-Hopkins as the one player from the Oilers former core that can command the greatest return — yet at the same time is expendable. 

Two things:

  • Mark Spector’s conclusion (underlined) may or may not be true, but there is enough evidence here (imo) that we can assume Peter Chiarelli has offered RNH to at least one NHL team. Mark Spector is an extremely credible source, that is a fact. He has something or two somethings that have inspired this article—no doubt in my mind. The source is not in Edmonton, he told us that much in the article. Nashville? A reasonable man could conclude as much.
  • I believe it is madness to trade RNH unless Boone Jenner is coming back, and it is madness to trade Nuge for Boone Jenner. If the Oilers are going to trade Nuge and get Jenner and something else? My response is what else?
  • We might—and I say might—be looking at a three-way trade. If you could pry Ryan Murray away, and send him to the Islanders for Travis Hamonic, then the framework of a deal comes into view.
  • Would you trade Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to the Columbus Blue Jackets, and eventually return Boone Jenner and Travis Hamonic?

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

I believe I have seen enough, and am prepared to suggest to you that Peter Chiarelli has chosen the Nuge as expendable. I believe it is a trade he will regret, and am disappointed he didn’t see RNH at his best (this season has been the opposite of one year ago, when Hall was the man under pressure and the Nuge was flying).

These young men can fool you, and make you look foolish years down the line (example: Tyler Seguin). If Peter Chiarelli is about to trade Nugent-Hopkins in return for Boone Jenner and Ryan Murray—and then planning to flip Murray for Travis Hamonic—then he is making another version of a trade we have seen here for the last decade. The three-for-one is always going the wrong damned way.

reinhart photo by mark williams

The Bakersfield Condors will have a different look on several levels when they play the Texas Stars this evening in Bakersfield. The Stars (19-14-3-3) are a better team than the Condors (14-13-2-2) and this should be considered a major challenge.

The Condors face the Stars without Zack Kassian, who is now in the NHL with the Oilers. He will be replaced by Rob Klinkhammer, who hits the AHL for the first time since 2012-13 and about one year after the Oilers acquired him from Pittsburgh in the David Perron deal.

It looks like Tyler Pitlick may also play, giving the Condors (potentially) four new forwards, if you include Klinkhammer. For some of these men, the last half of the AHL season will be their last chance to show the organization they are worthy of a spot on the 50-man list for 2016-17.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

200 Responses to "WILL THE NUGE BE HERE WHEN THE SWALLOWS COME BACK TO CAPISTRANO?"

  1. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Swallows?
    I thought it was Salmon….

  2. fifthcartel says:

    This scares me.

  3. square_wheels says:

    What I don’t like, is offering an established top 6 forward with many years left on a solid contract, for a soon to be RFA that really hasn’t sold anyone he’s ready for top 4 minutes.

    Sometimes the moves that don’t work, are the Gords doing us a favour. We all know they owe us nothing ( the gift returns after the All-Star break), so maybe my sacrificing of lambs for Lander has won favour with them.

  4. The Hermit says:

    Even if Nashville would have made the move, wouldn’t some salary have to be coming back to the Oilers besides Jones?

  5. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make.

  6. Centre of attention says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make.

    This.

  7. godot10 says:

    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins was allegedly available for a potential stud defensemen or a stud defensemen. Teams rarely trade them, so it is unlikely Nugent-Hopkins is going anywhere.

    If Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (or Eberle) is going Burns, or Hamonic, or Shattenkirk (or Seth Jones) would be coming back.

    Those are very improbable transactions. One shouldn’t lose too much sleep fretting about what is unlikely to happen.

  8. Diesel says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make.

    See: Ex-girlfriend
    Re: Ring

  9. Ray says:

    I wouldn’t trade Nuge.

    But if you think you have to move him for the betterment of the team Jenner/Hamonic seams like decent value.

    I’d prefer Coyle & Dumba from the Wild if Fletcher was desperate for a 1C. Dumba might even get you Hamonic if you so wished.

  10. square_wheels says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”

    I do wish Nuge could become Weight 2.0, play with a bit more ass-holishness (it’s a word).

  11. bcoil says:

    Look I know it makes good copy to trade one of the top two way centres in the league but it is not going to happen .Neither McDavid or Dirasatle is as good as Nuge and wont be for at least two years so Peter C and Todd will not think about trading him. Will other GMS try to get him sure but he is not for sale .Todd had a number of natural centres on his last team that he played them in various positions winger centre etc and interchanged them depending who he was playing it was a great asset to have.
    . You don’t trade what is considered the hardest thing to find in this league a number one Centre .Every one else wants them .What happens not if but when MacDavid or Driasatle is injured ???? Now you have one centre and Nada .IT IS NOT GOiNG TO HAPPEN folks get over it this is not fantasy hockey where you move folks around like it is Monopoly board.

  12. stevezie says:

    Diesel: See: Ex-girlfriend
    Re: Ring

    Word Up!

  13. RexLibris says:

    Colour me concerned.

    This tells us the following:

    Nugent-Hopkins is expendable.

    Mgmt was ready to flush the season with McDavid out of the lineup by moving RNH

    They value defenders ahead of their curve, placing a lot of faith in their own estimation over more tangible proof of ability

    —–

    I am not entirely comfortable with the management group at this time.

  14. LostBoy says:

    I guess my response to the questions posed in this post would be:

    If you want to acquire Seth Jones, or Kevin Shattenkirk, or whoever…(I honestly don’t see Travis Hamonic as part of the same conversation, though he’s a fine defenseman)…

    …what are you prepared to give up?

    I don’t think the OIlers can win a trade for Nuge, but if you want a potential keystone D…what are you prepared to give up?

    The Jackets traded an ostensible franchise C, the only one they had. (I think the jury is way, way out on Johansen…nobody ever sent Nuge home from an AHL team at playoff time because his presence was bringing everyone down, and Nuge so far hasn’t taken an unsportsmanlike penalty on an offensive zone faceoff with his team trailing by a goal with three minutes and change to go, by telling the linesmen that his mother swam after troop ships or whatever the hell Johansen said).

    What are we prepared to lose? A much reduced new-rules-lottery ticket for Matthews isn’t going to get it done.

    Do we just not do one of these trades? Is maturation from Klefbom and Nurse over two or three years enough?

    Because the price is pretty obviously set.

    (For the record, no, I would not have traded Nuge for Seth Jones and no, I would not trade Nuge for Jenner and Hamonic, not in a million years.)

  15. Walter Sobchak says:

    LT

    What’s the problem with the return of Jenner & Hamonic for RNH?

    This trade proposal is one, out of all the really bad ones out there that makes any sense.

    It gives a comparable in terms of points, it gives more size up the middle, I understand that Jenner is a floater between RW & C but has played more C this year.

    Is the tough minutes RNH plays and the heavy comp he faces a deal breaker as you see it?

    The Hamonic part of the deal sends it over the top, I’ve been pretty vocal about not trading RNH but this seems like it could work for the Oilers.

  16. G Money says:

    RexLibris,

    Ditto.

    I was willing to overlook Chia’s history with Seguin as a move forced by management.

    I assumed that some of the questionable early moves (sending Marincin away for peanuts, signing Gryba, signing Korpikoski) might have MacT’s fingerprints, OR that Chia might have insight into players that historic Oiler management has lacked.

    I assumed the lack of movement on D was a lack of availability, especially given what happened with the Hamilton non-trade and the news of the ongoing Hamonic discussions.

    This news – trading an established NHL C backed by two C rookies for a young D with high potential but nothing unequivocally proven – makes me very very very nervous about Chia’s actual competence as a GM.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Walter Sobchak:
    LT

    What’s the problem with the return of Jenner & Hamonic for RNH?

    This trade proposal is one, out of all the really bad ones out there that makes any sense.

    It gives a comparable in terms of points, it gives more size up the middle, I understand that Jenner is a floater between RW & C but has played more C this year.

    Is the tough minutes RNH plays and the heavy comp he faces a deal breaker as you see it?

    The Hamonic part of the deal sends it over the top, I’ve been pretty vocal about not trading RNH but this seems like it could work for the Oilers.

    Hamonic is not a difference maker imo, not like Shattenkirk. And I like Jenner but he has injury issues and both need contracts. It is NOT a king for two sixes, but it is a King for two 10s. I think you will find a team getting the better player wins most of the time.

  18. Centre of attention says:

    RexLibris:
    Colour me concerned.

    This tells us the following:

    Nugent-Hopkins is expendable.

    Mgmt was ready to flush the season with McDavid out of the lineup by moving RNH

    They value defenders ahead of their curve, placing a lot of faith in their own estimation over more tangible proof of ability

    —–

    I am not entirely comfortable with the management group at this time.

    I’m in the same boat as you.

    If Nuge goes, we need a center coming back. As some have mentioned a Dumba+Coyle for Nuge+____ I could live with.

  19. wheatnoil says:

    It appears Chiarelli has identified his target: Young RFA D with high pedigree (Reinhart, Jones).

    That’s not necessarily a bad thing given the team’s needs.

    However, one of the three following also appears to be true:
    1) He’s willing to overpay to acquire the targeted asset.
    2) His valuation of some things don’t match many of ours (Nuge, mid-1st rounder), so he doesn’t see it as an overpay.
    3) His valuation of the target is higher than many of ours.

    This is dangerous territory. Out of the options, I hope it’s “1”. And if it’s number “2” or “3”, he better damn well be right. However, what we should all really hope is that it’s ONLY one of the three and not two or all three.

  20. fifthcartel says:

    If we only get to see RNH/McDavid/Draisaitl play together for about ~35 games, depending on when McDavid gets back, then that’ll be an incredibly disappointment, especially since it sounds like one of them will play some games at wing too. If Chiarelli can’t acquire a defensemen without trading away a top-line center, then that’s concerning.

    I don’t get this “load the two top lines up” either. Both Chiarelli and McLellan had strong third lines that could score in Boston and San Jose, yet here they’re content to have an offensively inept third line and a fourth line that is basically useless?

    My fear is RNH goes for some lame package to a team that needs a center (Minnesota, St. Louis, Columbus) and similar to the idea of Murray and Jenner, but in this case Brodin and Coyle. If this ends up as a way to get Hamonic, then I think it’ll be a disaster considering they gave a similar player up for picks in Petry.

    Not to mention the Reinhart trade looks even worse, but I think that’s been stressed enough.

  21. stevezie says:

    Is Jones floundering this badly? Even if you ultimately reject the deal, people here find the offer criminal. This does not seem to be league consensus.

    If we agree that Nuge and Rjo are close (and that seems obvious), then it’s seems by the trare and the reaction that Jones is roughly at that level of value. What do you all hate about Jones? Are his points disappointing you? Does he have some bad fancies i don’t know?

    He’s no Ekblad, but he looks okay to me.

    Follow up: If you had to trade Nuge, what is an acceptable return?

  22. Lois Lowe says:

    I don’t trust Spec. I just don’t.

    I am sure there’s a kernel to truth to his story insofar as Nuge was on the table with the Preds. However, I am not convinced that Nuge for Jones straight across was ever really the deal.

    Chia was probably looking at Weber (right or wrong), and floated Baby Nuge as the primary talent going the other way because of perceived depth at the position (right or wrong) and knowledge of what it would take to pry Weber free.

    I’m sure that the Preds really weren’t interested than anyone other than RNH or Drai because they’ve tried talented wingers before and it hasn’t worked (and Hall and McDavid are excepted because they’re just not available).

    Chia, Lowe, and Nicholson all know Weber’s game and have seen him good for years. I’m sure they love his ‘heaviness’ and ‘leadership’.

    The trade off in terms of cost certainty for both clubs is intriguing enough to get both teams thinking.

  23. Dr. Taboggan says:

    I would not be surprised if both Eberle and RNH are traded this offseason.

    I love Eberle and think is one of the better RW in the league but I do not think he is the volume shooter type Tmac loves and I do not think he plays the 200ft game Chia loves.

    I also love RNH but I think Chia looks at the D and knows RNH could get him a significant upgrade.

    I will with hold judgement of Chia until actual trades are made. Both Eberle and RNH are really good players. Hard to win trades when you give up the best player.

  24. square_wheels says:

    Lowetide,

    Sometimes I think holding on to a single king/queen when 2 10’s might win the pot, is worth the play.

    Considering we are perpetually stuck with 3’s, 7’s and 9’s from different suits, waiting much longer to land more jacks may drive us to drink. Wait, we all,drink now.

    Drive us to punch babies ? Kick kittens ?

    My point is I’m fed up with collecting shiny things, I want balance, even if it means only 4 yrs of upper echelon play. Lombardi and Bowman ice different teams but their approach is the same.

    Sign Backes for 3 years, or Neilsen, but God dammit get us some D before Hall returns to his “trade me face” after every loss.

  25. sliderule says:

    If you want to trade for a number one D you have to give up one of our top line forwards.

    Nuge ? Next year he will be either a third line center or a top six winger.

    Eberle ?our top scorer the last few years but he won’t get you a top two D .Maybe a top four D

    Hall?Nashville was willing to give up Weber for him so maybe he is the best bet.

    If you are not willing to trade Nuge or Hall you can stop whining about our defence and just hope Nurse or Klefbom develop.

  26. Lowetide says:

    Lois Lowe:
    I don’t trust Spec. I just don’t.

    I am sure there’s a kernel to truth to his story insofar as Nuge was on the table with the Preds. However, I am not convinced that Nuge for Jones straight across was ever really the deal. Chia was probably looking at Weber (right or wrong), and floated Baby Nuge as the primary talent going the other way because of perceived depth at the position (right or wrong). I’m sure that the Preds really weren’t interested than anyone other than RNH or Drai (Hall and McDavid excepted because they’re not available. EVER.).

    Chia, Lowe, and Nicholson all know Weber’s game and have seen him good for years. The trade off in terms of cost certainty for both clubs is intriguing enough to get both teams thinking.

    Agree. Remember, Spector’s job isn’t necessarily to report everything, in fact that might hurt his contact (when teams know you are feeding media I suspect it is not a good thing). Suspect what you say is exactly true, as in Nuge for Jones had other pieces, including a center.

  27. haters says:

    I don’t know how else to say it. Nuge isn’t as good as his previous #s say. Although I found it interesting that a poll was taken and it was close, but I imagine that’s because RNH is under a reasonable contract longer term.

  28. Genjutsu says:

    Friedman had an interesting idea about who ever has the 2nd OV pick might look hard at getting the 3rd so they could grab both the big Finns.

    There’s a good chance we could pick up Hammonic and something else if we end up with a top three pick.

    Buffalo and Colombus look like they should have the peices to complete a three way trade.

  29. Lowetide says:

    sliderule:
    If you want to trade for a number one D you have to give up one of our top line forwards.

    Nuge ? Next year he will be either a third line center or a top six winger.

    Eberle ?our top scorer the last few years but he won’t get you a top two D .Maybe a top four D

    Hall?Nashvillewas willing to give up Weber for him so maybe he is the best bet.

    If you are not willing to trade Nuge or Hall you can stop whining about our defence and just hope Nurse or Klefbom develop.

    One doesn’t mean the other, there are ways to get a suitable player for less than Nuge. I do agree Oilers fans are going to need to loosen their grip on the Hall cluster though—someone is leaving.

  30. Water Fire says:

    Given this last month, we shouldn’t expect a lot of movement outside of the trade dealine which is not about core.

    We of course don’t know but Chia seems to be talking to everybody and establishing his baseline under this owner to his peers.

    He isn’t going to sell the farm based on his mandate from Katz it seems, and once they all get it, maybe he can make a hockey trade. But that all depends on them and how much he wants to seem to win the deal, so we’ll see. He is after all in the footsteps of Sather.

  31. Messier11edm says:

    People, how do we expect to get a top pairing dman without giving up something of comparable value?
    RNH is going to be the player dealt, I believe that has been obvious for sometime. He is the player of the highest value that wouldn’t be part of the untouchables. Eberle, Yak, these guys are not going to fetch that dman that we want. RNH can…and he will. Just watch.

    However, it can’t be for a guy like Harmonic …sorry, people have floating his name around but that isn’t what we need. It’s time to go big if we are serious about becoming a championship contender.

    Here are the 4 names that would be acceptable to me it meant giving up RNH (I’ve excluded names that we know we wouldn’t get in a trade ie Karlsson, doughty, subban):

    Burns, OEL, Faulk, Seabrook, – oilers may need to offer more than RNH to get any of these 4 but as I said, it’s time to go big or go home. With any one of these 4 our team’s transition game would vastly improve, and our play play? It would become a top 10 relatively soon.

    No shattenkirk no buff

  32. Melman says:

    With CMD coming back after the All-Star break (and hopefully Klef soon afetr) and the trade deadline being Feb. 29th, Chia will get a month to FINALLY see what this thing looks like with all the pieces on the board. If you were GM why on earth would you make a trade today unless it blew your socks off, and really…is that going to happen?

    Sit tight and see how Feb rolls out – it’ll be a fun month, and I predict predictable trades at the deadline with the 1 D being added at the draft and another in FA.

    EDIT: I hope they rip the cover off the ball and SUITB of their critics

  33. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: One doesn’t mean the other, there are ways to get a suitable player for less than Nuge. I do agree Oilers fans are going to need to loosen their grip on the Hall cluster though—someone is leaving.

    I’m just glad it no longer appears to be Hall himself leaving. Though the departure of Nuge sets off all sorts of warning bells.

    How far does the rabbit hole go?

    I will still follow Nuge or Eberle if they get traded. I will watch all their shifts. I’m not even kidding.

  34. square_wheels says:

    Messier11edm,

    I got a $50 that either Dallas, Colorado or Florida backs up,a dump truck of cash for Buff.

    Dallas has ONE D signed long term and old balls Oduya signed until next season.

    They are not letting the Benn/Seguin years go to waste.

  35. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    This will be a very interesting offseason.
    There are more than a few RHD that fit the Oilers’ needs available.
    The Oilers have a GM who seems to actually not fear making “bold” moves.
    The cap will be flat or down this summer and at least Nikitin and Purcell will be off the books ($9m).

    We grab popcorn. We wait.

    As one who did judge Chiarelli a little for being at least complicit in the Seguin trade in “Behind the B” I should be getting upset here, too but I am not. I know less of the full picture now behind a Nuge trade than I did the Seguin one.

    Stauffer said the Oilers could have had Jones for Nuge.
    Spector said the Oilers did offer Nuge for Jones.

    If we believe Stauffer, and let’s say that we do, then a straight up offer of Nuge before Columbus jumped in with Johansen would have been accepted.

    However, if we also believe Spector, and let’s say that we do, and Nuge was on the table for Jones, it must not have been straight up at the time. Perhaps Chia was willing to offer Nuge if it was Jones plus something else good.

    And then Kekalainen, in desperation offers up Johansen straight across. At that point, Johansen’s size and scoring and right-handedness fit Poile’s needs and wants better than Nuge did. Now the deal is no longer Nuge for Jones+something good, but Nuge isn’t enough to trump CBJ’s offer anymore.

    Chia rightly refuses to make a deal that has suddenly tilted against him to be Nuge+something else for Jones.

    Both Spector and Stauffer are telling the truth. And we don’t need to worry too much about Chiarelli yet.

    Plausible?

  36. Lloyd B. says:

    A bit of a sliver lining. Chia obviously recognizes the need to upgrade the D. How could he not unless he lives in a sensory deprivation chamber.

    Look at the return he received for Sequin and draw your parallel trades. Sequin at the time and RNH now are roughly comparable over their body of work. I don’t like the look or feel of it. Hopefully, Chia learned his lesson about the return when you are clearly trading away the best player in the deal.

  37. haters says:

    Who else is already looking at iss top 30 ? …..
    Yay……..

    I know Chiareli is taking his time but his inability or refusal to fix the hole left by Petry probably cost us post season play. Reminds me of Tambo a bit.

  38. square_wheels says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I can buy that. Lots of UFA C’s that are not getting raises this year, Chia must think one of them wants to play Connor’s wing in the ozone and take draws in the D.

    This team has to find some top 9 balance as well.

  39. LostBoy says:

    I don’t think the Oilers need to trade for an anchor first-pairing D. Both Klefbom and Nurse are exactly that in waiting. It would be insane to give up a 22 year old Nuge for someone just a bit more developed (or someone soon to be on the wrong side of 30 who is pretty clearly not what his press clippings say: http://www.tsn.ca/preds-traded-wrong-defenceman-1.419461).

    I’ve said it before, but what the Oilers need, more than anything else, is a true offensive D. Not an all-rounder anchor, we’ve got that coming. But someone who can run the PP and put up 45-50 points. I honestly believe that would be transformational. Add that and you can patch with another UFA body, a cheaper Sekera addition, while Klefbom and Nurse grow into the roles.

    I would reluctantly give up Eberle for a young true offensive D. I would do Eberle for Vatanen plus (obviously) whatever semi-useful short to medium term salary we’d need to take.

  40. G Money says:

    Messier11edm: However, it can’t be for a guy like Harmonic …sorry, people have floating his name around but that isn’t what we need. It’s time to go big if we are serious about becoming a championship contender.

    Except Jones isn’t as good as Hamonic right now.

    Not close.

    And he may never be as good, let alone better.

    Yes, it’s true, someday he may be better.

    But he’s not right now.

    Jones has potential. He is NOT established. More players fail to achieve their potential than do.

  41. Lois Lowe says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    More than plausible.

    I was going to say in my post that a lot of the negotiation begins with who calls the other to address their needs. I’m not sure it was Chia reaching out. Nashville is fighting for a playoff spot in the best division in hockey and has been in need of a 1C for 18 years. The Oilers are last in the worst division in hockey and have forward depth and cap space this summer to address their want of an RHD.

    Chia has the leverage, why would he ever do Nuge for Jones straight across?

  42. Messier11edm says:

    Folks, even if you think that RNH is a # 1 centre, or now even seeing that he’s comparable to seguin, he wouldn’t be utilized as a #1 centre in Edm. He’s going to be our number 3 C!! Yes, would it be nice to have someone as RNH as our #3C? Absolutely? Does it make sense though when we have a huge missing piece to the puzzle? NO!

    Don’t know why this is so hard to figure out. I love RNH, but we need a number 1 d and he’s the player that will help us get it. Anyone peddling otherwise is overvaluing our other players.

  43. Messier11edm says:

    G Money: Except Jones isn’t as good as Hamonic right now.

    Not close.

    And he may never be as good, let alone better.

    Yes, it’s true, someday he may be better.

    But he’s not right now.

    Jones has potential.He is NOT established.More players fail to achieve their potential than do.

    Jones wasn’t part of my 4 dman. There are only 4 that I would trade RNH for – and Jones isn’t one of them.

  44. McSorley33 says:

    I remember when Bag of Pucks suggested trading RNH in here…,,

    Burned at the stake.

    Can’t touch the core, right?

    I have more faith in PC now….

  45. G Money says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Hope you’re right.

    People are castigating other posters for overvaluing our own players.

    Except for the minor detail that undervaluing our own players and overvaluing other players has been at the root of almost every really terrible decision the Oilers have made in the last five years.

  46. Bank Shot says:

    Lowetide: Hamonic is not a difference maker imo, not like Shattenkirk. And I like Jenner but he has injury issues and both need contracts. It is NOT a king for two sixes, but it is a King for two 10s. I think you will find a team getting the better player wins most of the time.

    Hamonic +Jenner is probably a pretty fair deal for RNH.

    Let’s not forget that RNH is more of a Jack than a King and he’s making UFA dollars as an RFA.

    Hamonic’s contract is much better.

    Jenner could be re-signed reasonably by a GM who doesn’t hand out Mactavish contracts.

  47. Dr. Taboggan says:

    Messier11edm,

    OEL and Faulk are as untouchable as Doughty. Absolutely no way they get traded.

    Burns for RNH would be a brutal trade. Burns is 31 and only has a year left on his contract.

    Seabrook would be even worse. He is also 31 but signed to a big contract for way too long. Pass.

  48. G Money says:

    Messier11edm,

    Sorry, I misread your original post. I stand corrected.

  49. Factotum says:

    The Nuge might be my favourite player on the Oilers right now, but I resigned myself to the idea that his days were numbered – 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and so on – ever since the Oil won the McDavid lottery.

    I would hate to see him go, but I don’t – and didn’t – think he is/was untouchable. Very few are, or should be, at this point.

    Some pieces we’d rather keep will have to be sacrificed if the roster is ever going to be balanced. It’s a damn shame, but years of mismanagement aren’t easy to undo – especially in the NHL, where mistakes are built to last.

  50. Alexander the non-Great says:

    G Money,

    G Money:
    RexLibris,

    Ditto.

    I was willing to overlook Chia’s history with Seguin as a move forced by management.
    ………
    This news – trading an established NHL C backed by two C rookies for a young D with high potential but nothing unequivocally proven – makes me very very very nervous about Chia’s actual competence as a GM.

    G Money: G Money

    – First time writer, Thank you Lowetide for the insights, stories and overall entertainment and information during the many dark years we have endured –

    I could not agree more with your take on Chia! I believe that he avoids comment because he knows he looks pretty silly entertaining such a scenario. RNH has the highest hockey IQ on the team and is the most complete 200 foot player we currently have – not to mention future upside! Drai is working his way toward that level and the Gift from Heaven has some way to go for dominance..

    Chia would do the Nuge a huge favor to let him get away from the continuing gong-show and strike a blow to the team and the fans – exactly like he did in Boston.

    And like many in this forum, I will try to watch every game the Nuge plays wherever he is because I love what he creates on the ice – a real play-maker.

  51. Messier11edm says:

    Dr. Taboggan:
    Messier11edm,

    OEL and Faulk are as untouchable as Doughty. Absolutely no way they get traded.

    Burns for RNH would be a brutal trade. Burns is 31 and only has a year left on his contract.

    Seabrook would be even worse. He is also 31 but signed to a big contract for way too long. Pass.

    Not convinced that Faulk is untouchable, but OEL, possibly.

    Burns – he is exactly what the oilers need. Yes, he’s 31 but he’s got atleast 5 years in him. The time is now and what he brings to both ends of the rink would be tremendous.

    Need to look at this from how do we win a cup, not just on RNH’s trajectory as a player, because whatever that trajectory is, he’s still a 3rd line centre in Edmonton.

  52. stush18 says:

    I trade nuge if we can gaurantee a vet centre coming into the fold, whether it’s free agency or part of the trade. Would…

    Hall-drai-yak
    Jenner-mcjesus-ebs
    Poo-neilson(or whoever)-kassian
    Xxx

    Klef-hamonic
    Nurse-sekera
    Reinhart-Davidson

    Not be better than what we have?

  53. Dr. Taboggan says:

    Faulk is easily Carolina’s best player. Even if they did trade him it would cost a lot more than RNH. Not worth it.

    I am not worried about RNH’s trajectory. I am worried about being able to control Burns after acquiring him. His next contract will be into his late 30s and will cost lots of $$. Burns might have another 5 good years. I have my doubts that Burns will be an elite #1 D when he is 34,35, and 36.

  54. sliderule says:

    G Money,

    I would say you are overvaluing Hamonic and under valuing Jones.

    Jones is younger and bigger and scores more than Hamonic.

  55. A'bunadh says:

    I have in on extremely good authority that there was a deal for Jones on the table at the draft and Chirelli nixed it. He hadn’t seen enough of the team to know what he had so declined. With Drai emerging I guess he figured he could afford to make it now.

  56. leadfarmer says:

    Offering Nuge for a potential franchise defenseman is not the same as actively trading Nuge.

  57. Woodguy says:

    I’m missing where someone published a Jenner for RNH rumour.

    Help me out.

  58. Alexander the non-Great says:

    Lowetide: One doesn’t mean the other, there are ways to get a suitable player for less than Nuge. I do agree Oilers fans are going to need to loosen their grip on the Hall cluster though—someone is leaving.

    Just a hypothetical here Lowetide:

    You are offered a top D – established, reasonable contract – and you are asked for either Nuge or Hall. Which one do you give up? A 200 foot intelligent C or a LW? (I know you like both for different reasons).

  59. wheatnoil says:

    Thing is, someone is going to have to be traded in all likelihood. Drai’s next contract is going to be big and McDavid’s larger. Tough to keep them, Hall, Nuge and Eberle all over $6M plus Pou at $4M while also having to pay a D or two at some point.

    So I suspect one will have to go in two years. They’ll still have value then due to their contracts. So if you make the trade now, that’s okay, but you better be making the team better now and not in 2 years. Otherwise you’re no farther ahead. That’s the problem with the Jones trade. You make a trade you don’t have to make for two years without actually moving the timeline up.

  60. G Money says:

    sliderule,

    Oh! Scored more and is bigger! How convincing!

    Well, then, I suppose the fact that this is the Top 20 players (in decreasing order of ice time) that Hamonic has faced:

    PACIORETTY, STEMPNIAK, CAMMALLERI, PLEKANEC, O’REILLY, TARASENKO, STEEN, PAVELSKI, THORNTON, LANDESKOG, DUCHENE, MACKINNON, HOSSA, JOSEFSON J, TOEWS, GALLAGHER, RAKELL, BARKOV, HUBERDEAU, DESLAURIERS N

    Has no relevance relative to what Jones has faced:

    NESTRASIL, NORDSTROM J, COYLE,
    STAAL J, SKINNER, JASKIN, TERRY C, NIEDERREITER, LEHTERA, NASH RILEY, SANTORELLI, SHAW, STAAL E, HAYES, PAGEAU, VERSTEEG, CHIASSON A, DESLAURIERS, LINDHOLM, CARTER R

    Woo yeah, that’s a real list of killers.

    But hey, that doesn’t matter – Jones is listed at 208 lbs and Hamonic is at 205 lbs, how can anyone argue with that?

  61. Alexander the non-Great says:

    Messier11edm: Not convinced that Faulk is untouchable, but OEL, possibly.

    Burns – he is exactly what the oilers need. Yes, he’s 31 but he’s got atleast 5 years in him. The time is now and what he brings to both ends of the rink would be tremendous.

    Need to look at this from how do we win a cup, not just on RNH’s trajectory as a player, because whatever that trajectory is, he’s still a 3rd line centre in Edmonton.

    With all due respect, last I checked RNH is still the 1C in Edmonton with Dri working his way toward establishing himself (and doing a great job of it). The Gift from Heaven has shown his potential but it will be at least another season before we truly have his blessings materialize in some meaningful way.

  62. Lois Lowe says:

    Woodguy,

    Our man ‘lain is spitballing.

  63. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    I’m missing where someone published a Jenner for RNH rumour.

    Help me out.

    Someone published a Jenner for RNH rumor?

  64. Lowetide says:

    Alexander the non-Great: Justa hypothetical here Lowetide:

    You are offered a top D – established, reasonable contract – and you are asked for either Nuge or Hall. Which one do you give up?A 200 foot intelligent C or a LW? (I know you like both for different reasons).

    Nuge. Hall is a different animal altogether.

  65. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Makes you wonder how the Oilers past and current ranked the 2013 draft.

    I wonder if they valued Jones over MacKinnon?

  66. Jaxon says:

    I could see Michael Paliotta as a target for the Oilers. 6′-4″ 215lbs, Right D, Captain in Vermont got 36 pts in 41gp last season which is an NHLe of 30pts. He is only 22. He could be next years Colton Parayko. But Nuge would be a huge overpay and I’m not sure what else you could throw in form their lineup to even it up. Dubnisky? Jenner? Who else could they sned to CBJ instead of Nuge to get Paliotta?

  67. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Makes you wonder how the Oilers past and current ranked the 2013 draft.

    I wonder if they valued Jones over MacKinnon?

    It does make you wonder.
    If the noise was right they wanted Monahan badly and probably would have taken him over Nurse, but on the other hand would they have taken Jones over Mackinnon?Definitely over Drouin. But Barkov fits the big C mold they got in Draisaitl the next year. Would they have taken Jones over Barkov?

    So many questions we will never know the answers to.

  68. Alexander the non-Great says:

    Lowetide: Nuge. Hall is a different animal altogether.

    Thanks. I just wanted to visualize the team you see going forward.

  69. Lowetide says:

    Alexander the non-Great: Thanks.I just wanted to visualize the team you see going forward.

    Well, they are going to be good, I think it would be nigh on impossible to truly fuck this up. That said, not having a veteran C for cover would be one of the things that could derail this thing. Thus my worry over Nuge.

  70. Магия 10 says:

    LT likes to say you acquire a history and Spector has one. This is the guy who tried to get TMac to follow-up on Nicholson’s remarks and got a 5 minute ode to Nuge. At which point he doubled down with his survey of nhl “management”. at this point a GM would have to be pretty dim not to pick Spector if they want to push at Nuge’s value.

    On a more “serious” matter anyone recall the Bob Father as excited as he is today? On twitter he’s very definite that Coyotes and the NHL asked Scott to step aside. and on tsn 1050 radio he went all in:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cult-of-hockey-the-john-scott-fiasco-is-the-latest-example-of-the-nhls-meanness-and-ineptitude?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    “I think [Scott] feels like there’s no question in his mind—and I, really, it strains the levels of credulity to think otherwise—his inclusion in this trade, in my mind, was absolutely orchestrated to solve the All-Star issue for the league”

    What a farce. Count down with me …3…2…1…Domi.

  71. KSC10032 says:

    This discussion raises a question in my mind, and I’d like to see the views of LT, Woodguy, NYCOIL, GMoney, et al on this,

    iF — and it’s still a big IF — RNH were to be traded fro Murray and Jenner (and maybe some other pieces each way), why would we necessarily wish to flip Murray for Hamonic? Might we just keep Murray, and see if he reaches HIS draft day potential?

    I realize Murray has been injured more than is desirable, and due diligence concerning his health status would be essential, but he was very highly regarded, and not jus by past Oiler scouting staff.

    I have no opinion here, as I don’t follow the league as closely as I did when LT and I were pups, but I’d like informed comment on this. As a related question, why is the RHD thing such a pressing imperative. Back when I was a season ticket holder, there were as many left-shots an the right side as righties, and nobody even noticed.

  72. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Someone published a Jenner for RNH rumor?

    Where did the RNH for Jenner stuff come from?

  73. Jaxon says:

    This doesn’t fix things as fast as most fans want them fixed but possible targets that the Oilers might be able to get without losing as a major assets and who have a very good shot at being impact players soon and for a long time and at a cheap price for the next half dozen years.

    I’d CONSIDER trading any of these:
    Schultz, Fayne, Gryba, Hunt, Ference, Nikitin, Musil, Gernat on D; and Purcell, Hendricks, Letestu, Korpikoski, Lander, Moroz, Pitlick on forward
    for these players from Eastern Teams:
    RD: Madison Bowey (WSH), Michael Paliotta (CBJ), Mark Pysyk (BUF), Alex Petrovic (FLA)
    or
    RW: Riley Barber (WSH), Justin Bailey (BUF), Nicholas Baptiste (BUF)

  74. Ray says:

    Woodguy: Where did the RNH for Jenner stuff come from?

    Yeah, LT did

    😉

  75. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Where did the RNH for Jenner stuff come from?

    I was saying that I could not see EDM trading Nuge without getting a C (example: Jenner) ALONG with a defensive solution. It was a blue sky thought.

  76. Alexander the non-Great says:

    Lowetide: Well, they are going to be good, I think it would be nigh on impossible to truly fuck this up. That said, not having a veteran C for cover would be one of the things that could derail this thing. Thus my worry over Nuge.

    Indeed they will. I believe that they can field a good team eventually too but I do have my reservations when it comes to C depth. I would not want to see us set-back another couple of years by an unfortunate injury or freak accident(Yak) at the C position. Somehow (heretic comment to some I guess) out of all those re-build years, McD notwithstanding, it was Nuge that kept my interest as the potential key to some future success, it was never Hall. I may be unfair to Hall but I never bought into his style of play, a little too single-dimensional and too many dead plays on his (too long) stick for my liking…

    I admit to being partial to Nuge and his style of play and I am a firm believer that a good C is far more valuable to a team than any winger (Ovechkin and Goudreau exempt), but then again I recognize that different people see different things in players and teams.

    In any event, we are in a fine mess for now (again), the season is over as far as POs go and I sure hope for the sake of the team that this is the last year of almost constant head-shaking while watching them play.

    Thanks again for the hospitality on your site.

  77. admiralmark says:

    Say what you want about the all-star voting but the way the league handled the John Scott Loophole was pretty slimball’ish if you ask me.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl-news/4691417-john-scott-nhl-all-star-game-2016-rosters-voting-results

  78. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide,

    Well cut it out. You’re freaking everyone out.

  79. LadiesloveSmid says:

    I’m gonna have a hard time cheering for edmonton if they trade RNH. Unless it’s Doughty coming back the other way, I just don’t see how it’s a good play. The strength is the centre depth, don’t get rid of that. Don’t go in to next season with a 19YO and 20YO centring your top 6. Grow the defence internally, and try to grab somebody like Hamonic or whoever without touching the core like CGY did with Hamilton

  80. G Money says:

    KSC10032: iF — and it’s still a big IF — RNH were to be traded fro Murray and Jenner (and maybe some other pieces each way), why would we necessarily wish to flip Murray for Hamonic? Might we just keep Murray, and see if he reaches HIS draft day potential?

    Well, since ya asked!

    I don’t know enough about Murray to really have much to say about him. I don’t think he’s set the world on fire, but at age 22, that isn’t anything to be worried about. He certainly does seem to have had injury problems, and that has likely had an impact. I think he’s playing heavy minutes now, and that’s also encouraging.

    That said, the idea that we should wait for Murray vs Hamonic isn’t what I’d do. It’s not like Hamonic is 29 or 30. He’s 25 – as a defenseman, I’d say he’s literally JUST hitting his peak now.

    And given he faces the best of the best every night, more than holds his own (e.g. +CF%, +CFRelCor), and generally makes his teammates better, the idea that Murray might be better than him isn’t actually that likely.

    Hamonic & Jenner for Nuge is certainly something I’d seriously consider.

    It leaves Drai and McD massively exposed next year as I don’t think Jenner has shown he can take on the toughs, but he certainly fits nicely as a big 3C.

  81. Lowetide says:

    leadfarmer:
    Lowetide,

    Well cut it out.You’re freaking everyone out.

    Yeah, I think Spector has something. This appears to be real.

  82. Zelepukin says:

    Alexander the non-Great: Indeed they will.I believe that they can field a good team eventually too but I do have my reservations when it comes to C depth.I would not want to see us set-back another couple of years by an unfortunate injury or freak accident(Yak) at the C position.Somehow (heretic comment to some I guess) out of all those re-build years, McD notwithstanding, it was Nuge that kept my interest as the potential key to some future success, it was never Hall.I may be unfair to Hall but I never bought into his style of play, a little too single-dimensionaland too many dead plays on his (too long) stick for my liking…

    I admit to being partial to Nuge and his style of play and I am a firm believer that a good C is far more valuable to a team than any winger (Ovechkin and Goudreau exempt), but then again I recognize that different people see different things in players and teams.

    In any event, we are in a fine mess for now (again), the season is over as far as POsgo and I sure hope for the sake of the team that this is the last year of almost constant head-shaking while watching them play.

    Thanks again for the hospitality on your site.

    How soon we forget that it was Nuge, who had the hardest job of any Oiler coming into this league. The man-boy had to deal with western conference 1Cs, being the defensively minded one within the group, so that Hallsy and Ebs could free-wheel their offensive game. At the same time he has had to provide some indication of offensive numbers, as every first overall pick is expected to do.

    We whinged for years at the fact that Nuge was our only centre worth being on the ice and any game without him was a gong show. Now for the first time in 7 years, we have centre depth, but not 60mins to showcase it. You are an idiot if you don’t open the stables for a couple games when you’re not yet sure if those mustangs are actually unicorns.

    My point being, this is a horrible time to trade off Nuge for a 3D or 4D. You wait till either the deadline or off-season. We are not getting anyone’s 1D. You are an idiot if you think any team is going to trade OEL, Faulk, Doughty, Weber, Suter, Keith, Subban, Karlsson, Giodano, Burns, Klingberg, etc. Not going to happen. These are guys you double-shift. These are guys you win cups with. This isn’t video game logic.

  83. AsiaOil says:

    Get Berglund out of STL – he’s probably available and gives you 60% of RNH offense for 60% of salary – plus bigger, good defense and right age (27). Perfect 3rd line C behind Drai/CMD and he can play up if necessary. It’s not like there are no bigger 3rd line centers who can bring some offense. RNH’s scoring likely dies on the vine if he’s not in the top 6. Trade him now while he seen as a top line center because playing behind Drai/CMD will destroy that view.

    Lowetide: I was saying that I could not see EDM trading Nuge without getting a C (example: Jenner) ALONG with a defensive solution. It was a blue sky thought.

  84. Alexander the non-Great says:

    Zelepukin: How soon we forget that it was Nuge, who had the hardest job of any Oiler coming into this league. The man-boy had to deal with western conference 1Cs, being the defensively minded one within the group, so that Hallsy and Ebs could free-wheel their offensive game. At the same time he has had to provide some indication of offensive numbers, as every first overall pick is expected to do.

    We whinged for years at the fact that Nuge was our only centre worth being on the ice and any game without him was a gong show. Now for the first time in 7 years, we have centre depth, but not 60mins to showcase it. You are an idiot if you don’t open the stables for a couple games when you’re not yet sure if those mustangs are actually unicorns.

    My point being, this is a horrible time to trade off Nuge for a 3D or 4D. You wait till either the deadline or off-season. We are not getting anyone’s 1D. You are an idiot if you think any team is going to trade OEL, Faulk, Doughty, Weber, Suter, Keith, Subban, Karlsson, Giodano, Burns, Klingberg, etc. Not going to happen. These are guys you double-shift. These are guys you win cups with. This isn’t video game logic.

    We seem to share sentiment on Nuge:)

  85. Ray says:

    AsiaOil,

    This is the reason, and only reason, trading Nuge could be done.

    For the role he fills, with Drai and CMD covering the top two c’s, Nuge is replaceable easier then other roles… and that sucks.

    Trading Nuge, might be the right thing to do to move the dial for this group… and it sucks

  86. Woodguy says:

    Lois Lowe:
    Woodguy,

    Our man ‘lain is spitballing.

    Thanks.

    It didn’t read that way to me and then it was discussed so I was confused.

  87. Pouzar says:

    Nuge for Potential.

    This f^ckin re-build will never end.

  88. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: Yeah, I think Spector has something. This appears to be real.

    I listened to Stauffer say explicitly on his show that Nuge was not offered for Jones.
    He was pissed too. Pretty funny.

  89. Pouzar says:

    Condors getting owned tonight. 12 shots to 1 but only down 1-0.

    Ben Betker in the lineup.

  90. mustang says:

    Everyone wants to give a bag of used pucks chopped square by Gazdic for a top flight Dman, guessing thats not going to cut it. It’s as obvious as the nose on your face that the D needs at least 1 preferably 2 top dman before this team will compete. Not to mention some grit up front that can actually play.

  91. Woodguy says:

    KSC10032:
    This discussion raises a question in my mind, and I’d like to see the views of LT, Woodguy, NYCOIL, GMoney, et al on this,

    iF — and it’s still a big IF — RNH were to be traded fro Murray and Jenner (and maybe some other pieces each way), why would we necessarily wish to flip Murray for Hamonic?Might we just keep Murray, and see if he reaches HIS draft day potential?

    I realize Murray has been injured more than is desirable, and due diligence concerning his health status would be essential, but he was very highly regarded, and not jus by past Oiler scouting staff.

    I have no opinion here, as I don’t follow the league as closely as I did when LT and I were pups, but I’d like informed comment on this.As a related question, why is the RHD thing such a pressing imperative.Back when I was a season ticket holder, there were as many left-shots an the right side as righties, and nobody even noticed.

    If the OIlers trade anything of value for a LH Dman who isn’t immediately the best DMan on the team and a true top pairing guy I may set something on fire.

  92. HeatTreaterJoe says:

    Lowetide: Well, they are going to be good, I think it would be nigh on impossible to truly fuck this up. That said, not having a veteran C for cover would be one of the things that could derail this thing. Thus my worry over Nuge.

    Oh LT, please don’t jinx this! Nearly 10 years out of the playoffs, and Katz’s team is currently in a dogfight for dead last in the league. While I don’t think any individual move would totally screw this up, some of the Oiler’s recent seasons have suffered “death by a thousand paper cuts”.

    Trading Petry last year for magic beans was a damn big papercut (like one on the webbing between your fingers… or with cardboard). Overpaying (in terms of assets) for Reinhart with him still in the AHL represents another nick. Overpaying bottom 6 forwards represents more papercuts. Trading away RNH without bringing in a BETTER player (i.e., losing the trade) would be another big papercut. A few more of those and *POOF!!* the Oilers suddenly find themselves well down the path of totally screwing up a long painful rebuild.

    I still hope for better days, but last summer, I felt that Oilers in the playoffs in ’17 was a sure thing. An absolute lock. Right now? I give the Oilers in the 2017 playoffs a 50/50 chance at best.

  93. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: One doesn’t mean the other, there are ways to get a suitable player for less than Nuge. I do agree Oilers fans are going to need to loosen their grip on the Hall cluster though—someone is leaving.

    Now listen, we already lost Paajarvi and Omark!

    Everybody and his dog is waiting to move Eberle!

    Hall’s been traded more times than I’ve misspelled Mississippi!

    YOU CAN PRY NUGENT-HOPKINS FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!

    😉

  94. Woodguy says:

    Ray: Yeah, LT did

    He’s gotta stop running Nuge out of town on a rail.

  95. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I was saying that I could not see EDM trading Nuge without getting a C (example: Jenner) ALONG with a defensive solution. It was a blue sky thought.

    Face-offs taken BOS 10/11 (Cup Year)

    Regular season:

    Patrice Bergeron (80) 1439
    David Krejci (75) 1149
    Gregory Campbell (80) 832
    Marc Savard (25gp) 328
    Tyler Seguin (74gp) 303
    Chris Kelly (24gp) 190
    Rich Peverley (23gp) 156

    Savard’s last game was in January. Kelly and Peverley were picked up at the deadline so they actually played a lot of C going into the playoffs.

    So if his future is anything like his past, Chia is fine with only 2 high end C’s as long as the rest are competent without the puck.

    Given that Saddle has played a lot of 1st comp this year and McWonderful is McWonderful he may feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger.

    I wouldn’t.

    I’d try like hell to fix the D with other assets, but I do not know if that is possible.

  96. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: I listened to Stauffer say explicitly on his show that Nuge was not offered for Jones.
    He was pissed too. Pretty funny.

    Matty had it awhile back, too. Either the Oilers have a runaway media making things up, or the media is going out of town for information.

  97. Pouzar says:

    Shots are 29-4 in favor of Texas with 8:33 remaining in the 2nd period.

    2-0 Texas

  98. RexLibris says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    This will be a very interesting offseason.
    There are more than a few RHD that fit the Oilers’ needs available.
    The Oilers have a GM who seems to actually not fear making “bold” moves.
    The cap will be flat or down this summer and at least Nikitin and Purcell will be off the books ($9m).

    We grab popcorn. We wait.

    As one who did judge Chiarelli a little for being at least complicit in the Seguin trade in “Behind the B” I should be getting upset here, too but I am not. I know less of the full picture now behind a Nuge trade than I did the Seguin one.

    Stauffer said the Oilers could have had Jones for Nuge.
    Spector said the Oilers did offer Nuge for Jones.

    If we believe Stauffer, and let’s say that we do, then a straight up offer of Nuge before Columbus jumped in with Johansen would have been accepted.

    However, if we also believe Spector, and let’s say that we do, and Nuge was on the table for Jones, it must not have been straight up at the time. Perhaps Chia was willing to offer Nuge if it was Jones plus something else good.

    And then Kekalainen, in desperation offers up Johansen straight across. At that point, Johansen’s size and scoring and right-handedness fit Poile’s needs and wants better than Nuge did. Now the deal is no longer Nuge for Jones+something good, but Nuge isn’t enough to trump CBJ’s offer anymore.

    Chia rightly refuses to make a deal that has suddenly tilted against him to be Nuge+something else for Jones.

    Both Spector and Stauffer are telling the truth. And we don’t need to worry too much about Chiarelli yet.

    Plausible?

    You and your fancypants logic.

    🙂

    This all sounds like a very reasonable reconstruction of what might have transpired. In fact, I can picture you delivering this speech while walking back and forth in a private library in front of a roaring fire preceded by the words “I suppose you are all wondering why it is I have gathered you here today.”

    I don’t like the idea of Nugent-Hopkins for Jones straight across, and I am led to believe that Chiarelli is intelligent enough to realize that he would actually need a center for his team, unlike some previous Oiler GMs.

    So while I’m still a little nervous about the changes he’s going to make, given the Seguin history and all, I can at least rely on the fact that this man will operate without sentimental attachments.

  99. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Worth noting…

    Chia has acquired Reinhart (2012, 4) and apparently made strong offers for Jones (2013, 4) and Hamilton (2011, 9).

    I think that’s something of a pattern. Young, RFA, D with size and Pedigree, lots of pedigree.

    These offers are for high end talent, but in the up-and-coming and may-not-get-there end of the pool, rather than the established, but aging end of the pool.

    I think we can be happy he’s (maybe) less inclined to pay for past achievements, but frustrated he’s so inclined toward draft pedigree.

  100. Woodguy says:

    At the very least Spec’s piece:

    1) Put to bed all the “RNH can’t hold RJ’s jock and everyone outside of Edmonton thinks this way” bullshit.

    2) Set’s Spec right on RNH’s value as he was one of those type of people. (not that he compared them that I saw, but his constant derision of RNH)

  101. flyfish1168 says:

    Nuge traded only if we win the Lottery.

  102. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: Face-offs taken BOS 10/11 (Cup Year)

    Regular season:

    Patrice Bergeron(80) 1439
    David Krejci(75) 1149
    Gregory Campbell(80) 832
    Marc Savard(25gp) 328
    Tyler Seguin(74gp) 303
    Chris Kelly(24gp) 190
    Rich Peverley (23gp)156

    Savard’s last game was in January.Kelly and Peverley were picked up at the deadline so they actually played a lot of C going into the playoffs.

    So if his future is anything like his past, Chia is fine with only 2 high end C’s as long as the rest are competent without the puck.

    Given that Saddle has played a lot of 1st comp this year and McWonderful is McWonderful he may feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger.

    I wouldn’t.

    I’d try like hell to fix the D with other assets, but I do not know if that is possible.

    I think that lineup also suggests that Nuge is exactly the kind of C that Chia is comfortable with in his top 2.

  103. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Matty had it awhile back, too. Either the Oilers have a runaway media making things up, or the media is going out of town for information.

    I’d guess the latter.

    Chiarelli seems to have plugged the local leaks pretty well and I had discussed awhile back that I could see local guys who used to have a regular feed like Matheson and Spector getting frustrated at that.

    But they are professionals with many years of experience. They wouldn’t have made it this long if they didn’t develop relationships with executives in other organizations.

    How many times has Matheson said “a Western scout” or “an Eastern GM” in an article.

    Especially with social media, these guys can connect and gather information like never before.

  104. RexLibris says:

    flyfish1168:
    Nuge traded only if we win the Lottery.

    …because it would take all of the powerball money to sign Stamkos?

  105. G Money says:

    By the way, there are encouraging signs – well, one major one anyway – that Nugey is coming out of his funk. Will NerdAlert it soon if the kids cooperate and go to bed.

  106. Ray says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    His aim is better then those of the past.

    Cough… Nikitin… cough cough

  107. flyfish1168 says:

    RexLibris: …because it would take all of the powerball money to sign Stamkos?

    Yes that lottery too. you win the best line tonight

    I believe TMac loves having many centermen in the line up. Last evening in SJ it appeared they deployed two on the ice all the time. I live that strategy.

  108. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Worth noting…

    Chia has acquired Reinhart (2012, 4) and apparently made strong offers for Jones (2013, 4) and Hamilton (2011, 9).

    I think that’s something of a pattern. Young, RFA, D with size and Pedigree, lots of pedigree.

    These offers are for high end talent, but in the up-and-coming and may-not-get-there end of the pool, rather than the established, but aging end of the pool.

    I think we can be happy he’s (maybe) less inclined to pay for past achievements, but frustrated he’s so inclined toward draft pedigree.

    I’d argued something similar above.

    I like that he’s going for young with upside, but it is risky because that upside might never materialize.

    I agree though that at least he’s looking through the right end of the telescope.

  109. RexLibris says:

    G Money:
    By the way, there are encouraging signs – well, one major one anyway – that Nugey is coming out of his funk.Will NerdAlert it soon if the kids cooperate and go to bed.

    First you make Dangerous Fenwick a cool use-at-the-bar-to-pick-up-girls name, now you make your blog a verb?

    Impressive.

  110. RexLibris says:

    Ray:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    His aim is better then those of the past.

    Cough… Nikitin… cough cough

    Well, to be fair, I think MacTavish’s aim was dead on there, he just had the rifle pointed clearly at his big toe.

  111. G Money says:

    RexLibris: First you make Dangerous Fenwick a cool use-at-the-bar-to-pick-up-girls name, now you make your blog a verb?

    Impressive.

    I have Nerd Powers that others can only dream of!

  112. Optimism is Foolish says:

    Reading articles since the trade for Jones where every one is mostly saying that Johansen is the better player between Nuge and Johansen. So I decided to dig and see for myself. Turns out LT you are very correct, smallish or not he is money in the bank. Here is a quick compare using just /60 min played stats to prove the point.

    goals/assists/shots/turnover +-/hits/block shots

    RNH .74/1.46/6.7/+.5/2.6/1.7
    Johansen .92/1.34/8.2/+.26/4.2/1.4

    very close in most everything with Johansen being a more aggresive goal scorer and nuge a bit more of a defensive playmaker. One caveat is Johansen is much better on the dot.

  113. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    At the very least Spec’s piece:

    1) Put to bed all the “RNH can’t hold RJ’s jock and everyone outside of Edmonton thinks this way” bullshit.

    2) Set’s Spec right on RNH’s value as he was one of those type of people. (not that he compared them that I saw, but his constant derision of RNH)

    Don’t know if you saw the HERO chart comparison of Nugent-Hopkins to Johansen on twitter today.

    Interesting. Good way to get your dander up as an Oiler fan, but interesting.

    I can RT if you want to see it.

  114. RexLibris says:

    G Money: I have Nerd Powers that others can only dream of!

    Ended your sentence with a preposition! HAHA, I am your Nerd Sith!

  115. G Money says:

    RexLibris,

    We Nerds scoff at your puny rules of speling and gramer!

  116. G Money says:

    Speaking of which, I recently saw this:

    http://i.imgur.com/ox6FgkK.jpg

    and came to the realization that when it comes to hockey, I do in fact hit the trifecta as an exemplar Nerd, Geek, and Dork all wrapped up in one glorious slightly chubby package.

  117. oliveoilers says:

    Lowetide: I think it would be nigh on impossible to truly fuck this up.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA……..*Laughs maniacally until I pass out from forgetting to breathe*

    You remember who we cheer for, right?

    LT, why do you hate the Nooj?

    Listened to show driving from Red Deer back to the Peace today, massive props for the closing Giant and a Spaniard remark.

  118. Really? says:

    The Oilers will not be competitive until they greatly improve their D corps. To do this they need to add an offensive D man with a good shot and capable of QB’ing the PP as well as a second D man who can capably play in the top pairing and eat up minutes.
    They do not need to go whale hunting but they may have to give good to get good for one of these two D men. One can be obtained via free agency or offer sheet. The other will likely require the Oilers to relinquish asset(s).
    As an observation, I am curious as to why so many people feel the Oilers have to “win” a trade. As I understand things, if the trade accomplishes what you need it to accomplish then it is a good trade. As the best trades are win-win situations, then it is reasonable to expect that the trade will also benefit the other team.

  119. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    RexLibris: Ended your sentence with a preposition! HAHA, I am your Nerd Sith!

    That is something up with which I will not put

    {goes back to drinking his whisky while pacing back and forth in the library with the roaring fire}

  120. Lowetide says:

    Brossoit has stopped 33 of 35, Griffin Reinhart just scored and it is 2-1 in the third for the Stars.

  121. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    I don’t know what the heck happened. I didn’t post a link, but I got marked as spam and my comment got deleted…

    Woodguy:
    At the very least Spec’s piece:
    1) Put to bed all the “RNH can’t hold RJ’s jock and everyone outside of Edmonton thinks this way” bullshit.
    2) Set’s Spec right on RNH’s value as he was one of those type of people. (not that he compared them that I saw, but his constant derision of RNH)


    My responses:
    1) No, it did not. I won’t link to it, but go have a look at the HF thread on this subject if you want to see how the rest of the world sees this. “5 out of 9 execs is too small a sample size.” “If RyJo didn’t have baggage he’d be the winner in a landslide.” “RyJo is better, AINEC.” So, no. All it has done is further infuriate everyone outside Edmonton who hates the Oilers ever since McDavid.

    2) Maybe it does.

    3) If RyJo = RNH then Columbus got a steal because they traded their 3rd line C (TM) for a potential top pairing D. (Kelly Hrudey Logic (TM))

  122. Lowetide says:

    Winquist scores, also on PP, 2-2 tie.

  123. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Only 6 Western Conference teams have a positive goal differential. Wow.

  124. Gordies Elbow says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Worth noting…

    Chia has acquired Reinhart (2012, 4) and apparently made strong offers for Jones (2013, 4) and Hamilton (2011, 9).

    I think that’s something of a pattern. Young, RFA, D with size and Pedigree, lots of pedigree.

    These offers are for high end talent, but in the up-and-coming and may-not-get-there end of the pool, rather than the established, but aging end of the pool.

    I think we can be happy he’s (maybe) less inclined to pay for past achievements, but frustrated he’s so inclined toward draft pedigree.

    Great post.

    He’s clearly taking the long view, which is a tell.

    Hopkins is a borderline #1 C today, and could project to a great, 2-way centre (ala Datsuyk.) He’s not there yet, though. Edmonton can hold him until he’s fully developed (which may be difficult with Draisaitl and McDavid) or move potential for potential.

    IMO, it’s a good time to place reasonable bets.

  125. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: Don’t know if you saw the HERO chart comparison of Nugent-Hopkins to Johansen on twitter today.

    Interesting. Good way to get your dander up as an Oiler fan, but interesting.

    I can RT if you want to see it.

    HERO charts have almost no context and aren’t very useful imo.

  126. Woodguy says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    The day what gets discussed on HF matters is the day I quit.

    I get what you are saying though.

  127. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think that lineup also suggests that Nuge is exactly the kind of C that Chia is comfortable with in his top 2.

    Agreed.

    If McAwesome and Saddle weren’t here I think Chia would be good with RNH for a long time.

    Hell, he still may be.

    I think he just sees the fact that the Oilers have iced, at most, 2 top 4 D per year (and those were of the 2nd pairing variety) in the last 7 years and knows it needs to change.

  128. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Woodguy:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    The day what gets discussed on HF matters is the day I quit.

    I get what you are saying though.

    You’re right, it doesn’t matter. I’m just saying that Spec’s piece doesn’t move the needle outside Edmonton. The discourse remains as anti-Oilers as it has ever been. Glad you understood what I am saying. 🙂

  129. Магия 10 says:

    Lowetide: Matty had it awhile back, too. Either the Oilers have a runaway media making things up, or the media is going out of town for information.

    Ummm. Spector recently made a big deal about surveying out of towns teams re: valuation on Nuge etc. So if you’re out of town and want to take a swipe at the valuation of a player you covet who ya gonna call?

  130. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Worth noting…

    Chia has acquired Reinhart (2012, 4) and apparently made strong offers for Jones (2013, 4) and Hamilton (2011, 9).

    I think that’s something of a pattern. Young, RFA, D with size and Pedigree, lots of pedigree.

    These offers are for high end talent, but in the up-and-coming and may-not-get-there end of the pool, rather than the established, but aging end of the pool.

    I think we can be happy he’s (maybe) less inclined to pay for past achievements, but frustrated he’s so inclined toward draft pedigree.

    He’s also on record saying trading a 22 year old for a 30 year old is just bad business.

    I agree with you and Rex that overall its a good thing.

    I think its almost impossible to trade for “a true #1” Dman so you have to get them before they are that and a big part of what informs the future is the past.

    Not always comes out the way you want, but how a player stacks up against their peers in recent years is important info.

  131. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Brossoit has stopped 33 of 35, Griffin Reinhart just scored and it is 2-1 in the third for the Stars.

    This could be Oiler commentary as soon as after the deadline.

  132. Woodguy says:

    The more I look at Broissoit the more I want him on the Oilers next year as I don’t believe goalies get better with age.

    Might do him good on the experience side to start another year in the AHL, but I think its close.

  133. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Woodguy: He’s also on record saying trading a 22 year old for a 30 year old is just bad business.

    I agree with you and Rex that overall its a good thing.

    I think its almost impossible to trade for “a true #1” Dman so you have to get them before they are that and a big part of what informs the future is the past.

    Not always comes out the way you want, but how a player stacks up against their peers in recent years is important info.

    I wonder if with the cap being flat and such potentially, if the real chip here that might just work is if the Oilers are in a position to draft Chychrun and a team out there wants to shed some salary/rebuild/retool upon a playoff failure.

    Just spitballing, of course, but I’d want a better D than Hamonic coming back if Chychrun is on the table. But he plus something else of value might get a team out there to bite on a deal they may not otherwise be willing to make.

  134. Lowetide says:

    Game got away from the Condors because penalties, helluva effort from Brossoit who stopped 41 of 44 on a Gilles Meloche night.

  135. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Woodguy:
    The more I look at Broissoit the more I want him on the Oilers next year as I don’t believe goalies get better with age.

    Might do him good on the experience side to start another year in the AHL, but I think its close.

    I do agree, but it’s probably prudent to keep Nilsson on the payroll just in case. Where the Oilers have often failed in development is the timing of promotion from AHL to NHL, IMO.

    Let the prospect win the job from the incumbent.

    Re-sign Talbot as starter for 2-3 years, max.
    Re-sign Nilsson for one year.
    Re-sign Brossoit to a bridge deal.
    Give Brossoit a look again for a few games later this year, and let him try to win the job in camp next fall. If he does, you can put Nilsson on waivers. If he’s not ready, Brossoit has one more non-waiver year left, so he can be sent down again, right?

    I think this makes a lot of sense, but what do I know.

  136. RexLibris says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I wonder if with the cap being flat and such potentially, if the real chip here that might just work is if the Oilers are in a position to draft Chychrun and a team out there wants to shed some salary/rebuild/retool upon a playoff failure.

    Just spitballing, of course, but I’d want a better D than Hamonic coming back if Chychrun is on the table. But he plus something else of value might get a team out there to bite on a deal they may not otherwise be willing to make.

    That’s where I was going with the idea that that pick looks to me like it is all but moved. Just waiting to find a dance partner.

  137. Klima's_Bucket says:

    I thought Lowetide.ca had some simple rules.

    1) You do not talk about Lowetide.ca
    2) You do not talk about Lowetide.ca
    3) You do not talk about Politics
    4) You do not talk about Religion
    5) You do not talk about trading Nuge.

  138. RexLibris says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: That is something up with which I will not put

    {goes back to drinking his whisky while pacing back and forth in the library with the roaring fire}

    Always two there are with the Sith. A teacher and a student…

    😉

  139. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: HERO charts have almost no context and aren’t very useful imo.

    I find them interesting, but their appeal simultaneously makes me wary of them: too video-game at first glance and, like you say, not enough context.

    Probably appeals to the Pokemon generation, though. 🙂

  140. Yegfoundation says:

    bcoil:
    Look I know it makes good copy to trade one of the top two way centres in the league but it is not going to happen .Neither McDavid or Dirasatle is as good as Nuge and wont be for at least two years so Peter C and Todd will not think about trading him. Will other GMS try to get him surebut he is not for sale .Todd had a number of natural centres on his last team that he playedthem in various positions winger centre etc and interchanged them depending who he was playing it was a great asset to have.
    . You don’t trade what is considered the hardest thing to find in this league a number one Centre .Every one else wants them .What happens not if but when MacDavid or Driasatle is injured ???? Now you have one centre and Nada .IT IS NOT GOiNG TO HAPPEN folks get over it this is not fantasy hockey where you move folks aroundlike it is Monopoly board.

    I can’t agree with that statement. Both Drai and Nuge have out performed Nuge this year.

  141. Yegfoundation says:

    I don’t doubt the Spector comment for a minute. What this tells me is that the Oilers organization see’s the cluster as McDavid, Drai, Nurse, and Klef. And all of Nuge, Ebs, and Hall would be moved for the right return.

    The Oilers brass appears to have given Chia the authority to do what he see’s fit to build a winner, and Chia doesn’t think the current core is up to the task.

  142. BONVIE says:

    G Money:
    sliderule,

    Oh!Scored more and is bigger!How convincing!

    Well, then, I suppose the fact that this is the Top 20 players (in decreasing order of ice time) that Hamonic has faced:

    PACIORETTY, STEMPNIAK, CAMMALLERI, PLEKANEC, O’REILLY, TARASENKO, STEEN, PAVELSKI, THORNTON, LANDESKOG, DUCHENE, MACKINNON, HOSSA, JOSEFSON J, TOEWS, GALLAGHER, RAKELL, BARKOV, HUBERDEAU, DESLAURIERS N

    Has no relevance relative to what Jones has faced:

    NESTRASIL, NORDSTROM J, COYLE,
    STAAL J, SKINNER, JASKIN, TERRY C, NIEDERREITER, LEHTERA, NASH RILEY, SANTORELLI, SHAW, STAAL E, HAYES, PAGEAU, VERSTEEG, CHIASSON A, DESLAURIERS, LINDHOLM, CARTER R

    Woo yeah, that’s a real list of killers.

    But hey, that doesn’t matter – Jones is listed at 208 lbs and Hamonic is at 205 lbs, how can anyone argue with that?

    Nice work!

  143. Younger Oil says:

    I hate to play devil’s advocate, but I would be ecstatic with Jenner and Hamonic for Nuge, when people were saying when the Hamonic rumors started that it might take Nuge to just get Hamonic.

    But enough with the video game trades that never happen (though I will admit I propose my fair share of them).

    In all seriousness, I think Nuge’s value might be the highest it’s ever going to be right now. Why?

    1. He may be the Oilers’ third best center by sometime next year, dropping the quality of his linemates, and likely his production and trade value.

    2.When the time comes to re-sign Drai and McDavid, and other teams realize that we need to trade someone (likely Nuge) in order to make the cap work, that will affect his value as well. We have seen this from a multitude of quality teams (Byfuglien, Sharp, Ladd from Chicago ALONE were all trades that while necessary, ended up being losses).

    This is a tough situation for Chia, and this move needs to be done at the right time. I definitely am no expert, but sooner seems better than later from my perspective. It can’t be rushed though.

    We all keep saying, this team NEEDS a top pairing defender to even have a chance to make playoffs, and I don’t see a trade that will get us one that doesn’t involve our core.

    I would be very surprised if both Eberle and Nuge are in the opening night lineup next season.

  144. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: I find them interesting, but their appeal simultaneously makes me wary of them: too video-game at first glance and, like you say, not enough context.

    Probably appeals to the Pokemon generation, though.

    Goddam kids ruining fancystats!

  145. Woodguy says:

    Yegfoundation: I can’t agree with that statement.Both Drai and Nuge have out performed Nuge this year.

    I agree that Nuge has been much better than Nuge.

  146. Lowetide says:

    Yegfoundation: I can’t agree with that statement.Both Drai and Nuge have out performed Nuge this year.

    I can’t agree either, as Nuge would seem to be at a distinct disadvantage.

  147. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Lowetide: I can’t agree either, as Nuge would seem to be at a distinct disadvantage.

    This. 1000x this.
    Drai and Nuge > Nuge. AINEC.

  148. Woodguy says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I do agree, but it’s probably prudent to keep Nilsson on the payroll just in case

    Decent backups are like ants at a picnic every summer.

    This summer’s crop:
    Cam Ward
    Jonas Hiller
    Karri Ramo
    Niklas Backstrom
    James Reimer
    Ben Scrivens
    Anton Khudobin
    Alex Stalock
    Cam Talbot
    Chad Johnson
    Jhonas Enroth
    Al Montoya
    Justin Peters
    Anders Lindback
    Antti Raanta
    Carter Hutton
    Jonas Gustavsson
    Jeff Zatkoff

    Montoya is killing it in his small sample this year and is .910 lifeime.

    Enroth, Khudobin, Stalock, Johnson, Zatkoff would all be good too.

    I wouldn’t sign Nilsson just yet.

    He flops a lot for my taste as well.

    He’s a giant of a man, shouldn’t be on his belly so much.

  149. BONVIE says:

    Lowetide: I was saying that I could not see EDM trading Nuge without getting a C (example: Jenner) ALONG with a defensive solution. It was a blue sky thought.

    Well for what its worth I loved your trade, but if I pried Murray out of Columbus there is no way I am trading him for Hamonic.

  150. Yegfoundation says:

    G Money:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Hope you’re right.

    People are castigating other posters for overvaluing our own players.

    Except for the minor detail that undervaluing our own players and overvaluing other players has been at the root of almost every really terrible decision the Oilers have made in the last five years.

    I think that was ASIAOIL that suggested trading the Nuge

  151. Lowetide says:

    BONVIE: Well for what its worth I loved your trade, but if I pried Murray out of Columbus there is no way I am trading him for Hamonic.

    You want ANOTHER lefty?

  152. Yegfoundation says:

    Woodguy: I agree that Nuge has been much better than Nuge.

    Ha! How embarrassing!

  153. BONVIE says:

    Lowetide: You want ANOTHER lefty?

    We only use one Dman on our PP anyway, after that it isnt all that important,

  154. G Money says:

    Woodguy,

    I would be delighted with Khudobin or Enroth as a backup.

    Yegfoundation,

    1 – Asia and I disagree all the time. I’m not sure if it’s in spite of that, or because of that, he’s one of my favourite posters

    2 – I have no issue with trading Nuge if the right deal came up. I have a huge issue with trading Nuge for pennies on the dollar.

    Whatever others may say, RyanJo is very much on par with Nuge, and as Poile said, he’s been waiting for a player like that for 18 years. This coming from a guy who’s had Suter/Weber as a pair, and now has Weber/Josi/Ellis even after shipping away Seth Jones.

    The Oilers have three of those 1C guys in the fold now. Yet given the disinformation floating around the league, it’s hard to picture a Nuge trade that delivers value.

    So why not recognize what a gift we’ve got and look first to build around three elite centres instead of building around the same model as everyone else?

  155. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: You want ANOTHER lefty?

    Must be your cousin.

  156. Woodguy says:

    Yegfoundation: Ha!How embarrassing!

    Edit button FTW!

  157. thepeetso says:

    G Money:
    Woodguy,

    I would be delighted with Khudobin or Enroth as a backup.

    Yegfoundation,

    1 – Asia and I disagree all the time.I’m not sure if it’s in spite of that, or because of that, he’s one of my favourite posters

    2 – I have no issue with trading Nuge if the right deal came up.I have a huge issue with trading Nuge for pennies on the dollar.

    Whatever others may say, RyanJo is very much on par with Nuge, and as Poile said, he’s been waiting for a player like that for 18 years.This coming from a guy who’s had Suter/Weber as a pair, and now has Weber/Josi/Ellis even after shipping away Seth Jones.

    The Oilers have three of those 1C guys in the fold now.Yet given the disinformation floating around the league, it’s hard to picture a Nuge trade that delivers value.

    So why not recognize what a gift we’ve got and look first to build around three elite centres instead of building around the same model as everyone else?

    So Eberle for dman or bust.

    or do you trade the first rounder?

    me, I’d trade Eberle for, not out of spite or anything, and i wish we didn’t have to but hes the most easily replaced player who will bring back the most value.

  158. BONVIE says:

    I know where to find a top pair Righty that may be available if Winterpeg decides to sign that big contract that Byfuglien is seeking. Hes 6’8″ and he smothers offense, not sure he quite takes over games the way we just saw OEL and Hedman run our table this las week or two, but still a dominating Right handed D-man.

  159. Woodguy says:

    G Money,

    So why not recognize what a gift we’ve got and look first to build around three elite centres instead of building around the same model as everyone else?

    I really hope that Chia and McLellan aren’t so beholden to the old “top 6” model that they won’t even try a top 9.

    As Yak showed last night, there’s a huge gain to be had by being a match up problem.

    Lander was 7-0 100% against Tierny’s line.

    That has value.

    Now imagine its RNH/Draisaitl at C and Pakarinen on the the other wing instead.

    Good luck running your 3rd/4th lines against that.

  160. BONVIE says:

    Woodguy: Must be your cousin.

    I used to live in one town over from where he says he grew up!

  161. Radiusofnerdature says:

    I wonder what the weakening Cnd dollar will do to Canadian teams. The 90’s were bleak years. And the next few years could be bad bad bad. May also open up opportunities to pry some good players free for those who can still swim.

  162. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Radiusofnerdature:
    I wonder what the weakening Cnd dollar will do to Canadian teams. The 90’s were bleak years. And the next few years could be bad bad bad. May also open up opportunities to pry some good players free for those who can still swim.

    Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton: no problems. Rich owners with deep pockets.

    Calgary: a few empty seats.

    Winnipeg: internal budget may be lower than the cap and they may have to rebuild.

    Ottawa: Probably need to spend less and expect empty seats.

    That would be my guess.

    And no Quebec expansion for now.

  163. Woodguy says:

    BONVIE: I used to live in one town over from where he says he grew up!

    Either genetics or something in the water for sure.

  164. G Money says:

    thepeetso,

    I think any winger, any pick, any prospect is fair game. If you’re going with a true unicorn core, the only ones you keep for sure are Nuge/McD/Drai, Hall the superstar river pusher, and Klef/Nurse/Sek.

    Anyone else is on the block if I can somehow get either two Top 4 D, or one legit top pairing D. And I love #Yakcity.

    Put a full roster of actual NHL defensemen playing at their actual natural levels – or even below! Imagine a Top 4 D playing in the bottom pairing! – and the forward roster is twice as potent.

  165. OF17 says:

    RNH for Hamonic + Jenner is a dream trade, and that’s coming from someone who’s liked Nuge since his rookie days. As a 3C, the difference between Nuge and Jenner isn’t THAT much, and the difference between Hamonic and whoever else the Oilers employ next year is likely to be the Pacific Ocean.

    Asiaoil mentioned in the last thread the possibility of parting with Nuge + Eberle + + and receiving Shattenkirk + Hamonic +. I can only dream of such a scenario.

    Can you imagine having a true 2-way shutdown pair, a true 2-way offensive pair, and Nurse-Reinhart/Fayne to round things out? Good god, that’s like our current D times 2, and it only costs our 3C and 1RW. Can you think of another team in the league that wouldn’t take that deal? 3C and 1RW for a defense that’s twice as good. Even teams with franchise 1RWs like Chicago and Anaheim make that deal.

  166. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Man…Kane now on pace for 116 points in this dead puck era. Chicago 10 straight wins.

    Must admit I am envious. Can’t wait for McDavid to come back.

  167. Radiusofnerdature says:

    NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker",

    I wonder about Calgary. How many of their owners are(were) rich on Oil? CNRL has a reputation of being one of the most penny pinching companies out there when times are good, and that comes straight from Murray Edwards and how he likes to operate. Will him and the other owners continue operating at a loss for an extended period?

  168. OF17 says:

    Is Yak 42% of the player that Eberle is? That’s what next year’s salaries would suggest, but I have a feeling that Chiarelli feels different. Yak has a better P/60 and Corsi, and his up-tempo, physical style is much more in line with Chiarelli’s preferences. Why not trade Eberle under those circumstances? By that I of course do not mean trade Eberle for anything, but if Yak is >40% of Eberle now and in the future, does it not make sense?

  169. Zelepukin says:

    Woodguy:
    G Money,

    So why not recognize what a gift we’ve got and look first to build around three elite centres instead of building around the same model as everyone else?

    I really hope that Chia and McLellan aren’t so beholden to the old “top 6” model that they won’t even try a top 9.

    As Yak showed last night, there’s a huge gain to be had by being a match up problem.

    Lander was 7-0 100% against Tierny’s line.

    That has value.

    Now imagine its RNH/Draisaitl at C and Pakarinen on the the other wing instead.

    Good luck running your 3rd/4th lines against that.

    This.

  170. thepeetso says:

    G Money:
    thepeetso,

    I think any winger, any pick, any prospect is fair game.If you’re going with a true unicorn core, the only ones you keep for sure are Nuge/McD/Drai, Hall the superstar river pusher, and Klef/Nurse/Sek.

    Anyone else is on the block if I can somehow get either two Top 4 D, or one legit top pairing D.And I love #Yakcity.

    Put a full roster of actual NHL defensemen playing at their actual natural levels – or even below! Imagine a Top 4 D playing in the bottom pairing! – and the forward roster is twice as potent.

    wholeheartedly agree,

    Either the 1st rounder, Yak or Ebs has to be traded for some D who are ready now but trading Nuge right now is crazy talk.

  171. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    thepeetso,

    Chychrun for Hamonic and a 2nd at the draft?

    Overpay for sure but it accelerates the window on the D to useful for the McDavid ELC.

    I’d like to see bold get done in this fashion rather than deal away some of the forwards, but that’s just me.

    Or Shattenkirk.

  172. Lowetide says:

    Anaheim and Penguins just hooked up

    Bob McKenzie Verified account
    ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

    ANA trades Carl Hagelin to PIT for David Perron and Adam Clendening.

  173. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Okay. I am going to put down the pipe and go to sleep. But before I do, and before the desert peyote runs out, here’s a dream scenario for this summer, borrowing from Woodguy and Rex et al:

    #4 overall for Hamonic plus a 2nd. (Overpay for what you need)
    Eberle and the Isles’ 2nd for Shattenkirk plus a cap dump, say Berglund
    Sign Stamkos to a discounted deal because he wants to play with McDavid (Woodguy told me so)
    Replace Purcell for cheaper
    Trade Pouliot for cap space (pick)

    Hall(6)-Drai(3.4)-Nuge(6) (15.4)
    Stamkos(8)-McDavid(3.775)-Yakupov (2.5) (14.225)
    Stempniak (1.5)-Berglund (3.7)-Kassian (1.5) (6.7)
    Hendricks (1.6)-Lander (1.0)-Letestu (1.8) (4.4)
    Korpikoski (2.5)
    (43.225)

    Sekera (5.5)-Hamonic (3.857)
    Klefbom (4.16)-Shattenkirk (4.25)
    Nurse (.863)-Davidson (.585)
    Reinhart (.863)
    (20.078)

    Talbot (3)
    Nilsson (1)
    (4)

    Ference buyout (1.1667)

    68.4697M

    Yeah, I know. It won’t work as soon as Drai, McDavid, Nurse, Shattenkirk need to be re-signed. But next year would be fun!

  174. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Lowetide:
    Anaheim and Penguins just hooked up

    Bob McKenzie Verified account
    ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

    ANA trades Carl Hagelin to PIT for David Perron and Adam Clendening.

    Wow. How Perron’s value has fallen.
    Edit-forgot he was a UFA. Still. Hagelin has 3 years at 4m per left? Ouch.

  175. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    So is Clendening a precursor for moving Vatanen for Drouin?

  176. Dr. Taboggan says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I like the line-up. Move Yak up to the top line. Move Stamkos to the RW and RNH to 2nd line LW.

  177. Bank Shot says:

    NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker": Wow. How Perron’s value has fallen.
    Edit-forgot he was a UFA. Still. Hagelin has 3 years at 4m per left? Ouch.

    What’s wrong with Hagelin?

    He produces as much as Benoit Pouliot, but he scores his points all at even strength and plays the PK.

  178. Really? says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Or, is the move a precursor for a Vatanen/Lindholm for Eberle in some form?

  179. Woodguy says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    So is Clendening a precursor for moving Vatanen for Drouin?

    That was my first thought too.

    ANA clears out long term money at forward (Haglin has 3 more years at $4MM) and adds a RHD.

    Logically they would then trade a RHD for long term money at forward.

    Vantanen for Drouin makes a lot of sense.

  180. Oil2Oilers says:

    My reaction to the Spector piece yesterday was to resist all temptation to click on the link. Not because I don’t believe he has legitimate sources, but because I do not want to encourage his employer.

    Rogers have doubled down on blowhards and it ruins my appreciation of hockey. I don’t mind the odd shock jock or provocateur, heck I even like DSF’s post’s here. It is just that the need to be balanced by rational commentary as well.

    Moving RNH would be folly. He was the best player on the team the last two years and has been on night’s this year even when Hall and McDavid have been in the line up. He is a remarkable hockey player that is still 2 years from entering his prime.

  181. Woodguy says:

    Really?:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Or, is the move a precursor for a Vatanen/Lindholm for Eberle in some form?

    ANA’s top 2 RW are:

    Perry
    Silvferberg

    Both are signed long term so they’re not in the market for Eberle

    LW though…..Up until last night it was:

    Rackell (who can also play C)
    Hagelin
    Cogliano
    Maroon

    Now Perron is in Hagelin’s spot, but his contract expires this summer.

    So a spot opens up for Drouin.

  182. oliveoilers says:

    RexLibris: Probably appeals to the Pokemon generation, though.

    Pokémon was released in 1995, a lot of those first Pokemoners are now 30+!

  183. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: That was my first thought too.

    ANA clears out long term money at forward(Haglin has 3 more years at $4MM) and adds a RHD.

    Logically they would then trade a RHD for long term money at forward.

    Vantanen for Drouin makes a lot of sense.

    That there is some fancy GMing.

  184. PhrankLee says:

    This move is alarming. I don’t like it a bit.

    22 years old with 4 years experience at 1 and 2 C.

    I think it would be regretted for a long, long time.

  185. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    There’s no rule that you can’t end a sentence with a preposition. Just as there is no rule that you can’t split infinitives.

    These are stylistic preferences of your readers that are powerfully strong in some of the more officious-minded.

    Tell your narrow-minded readers to lighten up and expend their judgment on whether the sentence is well expressed or not.

  186. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Little grouchy this morning!

    One does not command the blog uberlord to “Tell”, one merely suggests! 🙂

    Sleep well?

    Kids had me up at 4, the dogs at 5 and the kids again at 6.

    Just having my first cup of tea waiting for the new thread while the boys watch Mighty Machines on YouTube on infini-repeat.

    It’s going to be an interesting day. Excited to see how all this late night trading shakes out.

    I hope it’s a good ‘un tonight.

  187. square_wheels says:

    oliveoilers,

    That Mighty Machine theme song just entered my head, thought it was gone for good.

    Dammit.

  188. oliveoilers says:

    square_wheels:
    oliveoilers,

    That Mighty Machine theme song just entered my head, thought it was gone for good.

    Dammit.

    I’m just working for you, doing mighty things.

  189. square_wheels says:

    Had to end a podcast and immediately switch to tunes to ensure it couldn’t set in for the day, that song and Dora are evil.

  190. PhrankLee says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If I can make sense of what an actual bear types, I am not sensitive about split infinitives or prepositions.

    To boldly go where no bear has gone before.

  191. G Money says:

    PhrankLee,

    Speaking of which… Where is our resident Bear? Hibernation I assume?

  192. oliveoilers says:

    PhrankLee:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If I can make sense of what an actual bear types, I am not sensitive about split infinitives or prepositions.

    To boldly go where no bear has gone before.

    A bear walks into a bar and says, “can I have a……………………………………………………………………………………………beer please?”

    “Sure” replies the barman, “but why the big pause?”

    “Sigh, BECAUSE I’M A BEAR, STUPID!”

  193. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Bank Shot: What’s wrong with Hagelin?

    He produces as much as Benoit Pouliot, but he scores his points all at even strength and plays the PK.

    I like Hagelin just fine. Always liked him on the Rangers. Speed to burn. That said, I was shocked to see he is getting paid that much now. He was cheap before.

    For the record I thought Pouliot was 1m per and 1 year too long as far as deals go, too, but that’s how free agency goes.

  194. hags9k says:

    Damn you Chiarelli and damn you Spector and damn you Bookjie.

    93 will be gone for a D now at some point for sure, and it appears it will be for a D < Jones.

    What a shit show.

  195. RJ2016 says:

    For what it’s worth, I read a bunch of Nashville sites that did a comparison of Johansen and Nuge.

    In Johansen’s favor, he has superior size, better points per game over the last three seasons, superior $AAV, superior FO%.

    In Nuge’s favor, he was seen as a more complete two-way player and had no character issues.

    When you project those two players to the Nashville team, Nuge’s strengths got watered down. They are already so strong defensively, they have less need of a two-way centre. They need offence, and Johansen’s numbers are better over the last two seasons. There were criticisms of Johansen in terms of conditioning, compete level, but they have a lot of veteran leaders in their room. They can off-set some of Johansen’s immaturity. On another team that was not as strong defensively, or had as many veteran leaders, then Nuge is probably still preferred.

    One thing I read more than once should be noted from outside assessments of Nuge: $6m is a lot to pay a centre that has never broken 56 points or won any playoff games. You feel insulted that the rest of the league doesn’t value the Hall cluster enough? There is a simple solution: have them win a series of two. Ten years out of the playoffs doesn’t help any of the roster’s reputations.

  196. Jaxon says:

    P.S. Jenner does not play center. At least not this season. He’s been on the wing all season.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca