ONE LESS BELL TO ANSWER

It seems as though the Edmonton Oilers are getting better performances from their AHL callups this season. Sunil Agnihotri was on the Lowdown yesterday and pointed out that Condors have been arriving ready from the farm. The most recent example, Griffin Reinhart, enjoyed a strong game just before the break. Of course, the most famous example is Leon Draisaitl with Darnell Nurse not far behind. Here are the performances of the Condors in their first five games after recall to Edmonton this season:

  • Andrew Miller, October 19 (sent back October 22: 1gp, 0-0-0 in 8:28 TOI)
  • Iiro Pakarinen, October 22 (5gp, 1-0-1 with six shots after recall)
  • Darnell Nurse, October 26 (5gp, 1-1-2 with seven shots after recall)
  • Joey Laleggia, October 28 (sent back October 29)
  • Tyler Pitlick, October 28 (sent back October 29)
  • Leon Draisaitl, October 29 (5gp, 3-4-7 with 13 shots after recall)
  • Andrew Miller, November 4 (5gp, 0-0-0 with three shots)
  • Anton Slepyshev, November 12 (1gp, 0-0-0 and sent back November 13)
  • Jujhar Khaira, November 26 (5gp, 0-1-1 with seven shots)
  • Ryan Hamilton, December 5 (sent back December 6)
  • Nikita Nikitin, December 9 (5gp, 0-1-1 with eight shots)
  • Mark Fayne, December 20 (5gp, 0-0-0 with five shots)
  • Brad Hunt, December 26 (5gp, 0-0-0 with 12 shots)
  • Ben Scrivens, December 28 (traded)
  • Zack Kassian, January 13 (5gp, 1-1-2 with eight shots)
  • Rob Klinkhammer, January 19 (1gp, 0-0-0 with one shot)
  • Griffin Reinhart, January 22 (1gp, 0-1-1 with four shots)

That is some impressive help. The Oilers would appear to have called up most of those worth looking at this year, although I would like to see Laurent Brossoit, David Musil and second looks at Anton Slepyshev and Jujhar Khaira.

LAST 10 GAMES

  1. Taylor Hall 10, 2-5-7 -9 (EV scoring has been tremendous this year, struggled in Jan.)
  2. Jordan Eberle 10, 1-5-6 +1 (Has been inconsistent this year, injury a big hurdle)
  3. Leon Draisaitl 10, 3-2-5 -7 (Led the team in goals over the last 10 gp)
  4. Benoit Pouliot 10, 2-3-5 E (They need to keep him on the wing. Solid winger)
  5. Justin Schultz 10,2-3-5 -4 (Offense coming around, defense continues to mystify)
  6. Teddy Purcell 10, 2-2-4 -4 (Faded a little offensively in this 10-game stretch)
  7. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 7, 0-3-3 +1 (Effective center, gone for most of the rest of the year)
  8. Zack Kassian 6, 1-1-2 E (Absolutely rock solid as an Oiler. Keep it up)
  9. Lauri Korpikoski 7, 0-2-2 E (He is an unusual player)
  10. Mark Letestu 10, 2-0-2 -2 (His role will increase, having passed Lander long ago)
  11. Iiro Pakarinen 9, 1-1-2 E (Very effective with Kassian, they are terrors at times)
  12. Andrej Sekera 10, 1-1-2 -2 (Strong 10 games, he and Fayne are an emerging pairing)
  13. Nail Yakupov 6, 2-0-2 -4 (I think he would be higher on this list with better linemates)
  14. Mark Fayne 8, 1-0-1 -1 (Impressive run with Sekera, I am happy he is here)
  15. Matt Hendricks 7, 1-0-1 +1 (Gritty forward had an eventful January)
  16. Darnell Nurse 10, 0-1-1 -5 (Wheels are insane, he has struggled this month)
  17. Griffin Reinhart 1, 0-1-1 +1 (I didn’t see a thing written about his skating on Sunday)
  18. Cam Talbot 8, 1.85, .935 (Enormous run during this month. A monster)
  19. Anders Nilsson 2, 4.35 .852 (A tough stretch for him. Can he recover?)

I used to watch him from the cheap seats (radio didn’t pay big money then) and took Jo several times while 99 was an Oiler. Watching him from high up gave you a unique view of Gretzky, who played the game about 20 frames ahead of everyone else. I know you know the records, but perhaps even more impressive was the total number of chances he would get in a game. It seemed the entire time he was on the ice, the opposition was in full sell out mode, just trying to avoid disaster. Happy birthday, Wayne Gretzky. If they counted high-danger scoring chances in your day, you might have 1,000 in season. Crazy talent, crazy era.

MCDAVID CHANGES EVERYTHING

panarin capture

In theory, the Oilers should have an advantage (McDavid!!!) in free agency beginning in the spring with college graduates, and then into summer with Euro hopefuls, NHL free agents and over-age juniors from the CHL. I spoke to Tom Lynn this week, and he talked about the importance of the player making his own decision. His job (this is from Lynn) is to lay out each opportunity, address the possible risks, and then wait for the player’s decision. In the case of Panarin, Lynn told me ”over 20 had interest, 6 made it to his final list and offered #1 overall contracts” so opportunity, winning and possible linemates probably had some impact on his final destination. The only barrier for Panarin might have been his own belief in his abilities (Chicago doesn’t throw top 6F opportunities around often), but this was a perfect fit for both sides. Oilers fans should hope the same opportunity arises for their team in the coming years.

The Oilers are not the Blackhawks, but part of winning culture is getting the best players and surrounding them with supreme help in the way of complementary players. I don’t know who will eventually become the ‘to-Kurri’ portion of the McDavid legend, but chances are the guy is not currently on the roster.

McDavid scored at 3.47/60 5×5 with Nail Yakupov (and close to that with Benoit Pouliot), that could be the best trio we see, all three men scoring bunches of goals over the next decade. I think Jordan Eberle gets a shot, and also believe we will see tinkering along the way. Brett Callighen, Blair MacDonald, Don Ashby, Esa Tikkanen, Dave Semenko, the list is long, but they eventually settled on Jari Kurri as best available for 99—and that was a helluva good decision.

The Oilers have some time to find McDavid’s Kurri, but he might come to us in a Panarin kind of way. When this team begins to turn north, they should start winning some of the extremely important free-agent battles. One college man I would like to see Edmonton sign is here.

YOU MAKE THE CALL!

I suspect Peter Chiarelli and Todd McLellan have made their decisions on who is staying and who is going to be heading out of town. Care to list your candidates for exit? A lot of this depends on trade opportunity over summer, but I think we can safely list a few players who are unlikely to be here in September. Thoughts? I will say this: Any player making over $3 million probably wants to be fast, contributing to the offense, and at least somewhat responsible defensively.

yak draft

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Another fun show today, 10 on the button this morning TSN1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Jonathan Willis, Cult of Hockey. Jon will explain the Oilers defense.
  • Dan Marr, Director of of NHL Central Scouting. We discuss the top of the draft.
  • Kent Wilson, Flames Nation. Are the Flames sellers?
  • Guy Flaming, Pipeline Show. We will drill down on the college free agents and CHL over-age players who may be available this spring.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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195 Responses to "ONE LESS BELL TO ANSWER"

  1. hunter1909 says:

    RNH + Eberle shouldn’t be making plans to stick around.

    This has nothing to do with my opinion re either player.

    On the other hand,what happens with either/both of these players lights it up Seguin style for their new team?

  2. PhrankLee says:

    Nice article, LT. It’s getting better all the time.

    I used to be cruel to my woman i beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved.

    The AHL help seems a little overdrawn. We could really use more high end prospects developing down there. Ben Betker is a good example. I would love to see us not trade the 2016 1st.

  3. Lowetide says:

    PhrankLee:
    Nice article, LT. It’s getting better all the time.

    I used to be cruel to my woman i beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved.

    The AHL help seems a little overdrawn. We could really use more high end prospects developing down there. Ben Betker is a good example. I would love to see us not trade the 2016 1st.

    One thing I forgot to mention about the callups? McLellan seems to put them right into the role they were playing in the AHL, and that imo has helped the players. Khaira didn’t get 4line usage, that allowed him to have an initial impact. Don’t think MacT did that 10 times when he coached.

  4. Aron_S says:

    If they keep the 3rd/4th overall pick, whatever it ends up being and select Laine or Tkachuk, I wonder if they give them a shot with McDavid for the next decade (if the player is not currently on the roster).

    I’d still love to see Yak on LW and Ebs on RW. Chaos incorporated, but it could be an interesting fit. Just a few more sleeps!

  5. Aron_S says:

    Lowetide,

    RE: MacT, that was fine when he could slot them in with players like Marchant/Grier/Moreau (remember Scott Fraser? 23 points in 29 games. WTH), but usually it was the square peg/round hole argument for sure. Drives me nuts when coaches do that.

  6. p3rsonman says:

    I could see any 2 of these 3 being moved:

    RNH
    Eberle
    Yakupov

    I think Purcell is as good as gone, and we might even see Pouliot shipped out of town if the price is right.

    On D, I hope/pray/believe Schultz makes a swift departure, and one of Gryba or Fayne will likely be gone.

    I think Nilsson is moved in the off season or mid-season next year.

  7. leadfarmer says:

    Thinking Eberle, Yak, Schultz, Purcell, maybe Gryba are gone. Yak maybe makes it one more year. They will try to get rid of Fayne but since no one took him for free already I doubt anyone takes him

  8. Raider Jesse says:

    Who I would move out…

    Schultz – Gryba – Korpe – Eberle – Reinhart

    Who I believe they will move out.

    Klink, Gazdic, and Nilsson I believe are not resigned.

    RNH, Eberle, Schultz and any of Korp/Fayne/ they can find a taker on.

  9. GB&Q says:

    Poor Anton L, so quiet this year he didn’t even make the last 10 games list. Man, I wish he’d catch fire for a while, hate to see him out the door for good.

    I’m thinking ATB Financial will need a new spokesman. And Schultz is gone. And Poo.

  10. dustrock says:

    Lol at the Yakupov photo – comparable style – Mogilny. Hoo boy.

  11. Ducey says:

    For next year Chia has to be looking at a D core of

    Sekera, Nurse, Davidson, Klefbom, and Reinhart.

    He likely keeps Fayne, with Gryba (or equivalent) as the 7th dman.

    I don’t mind that. If they can upgrade, fine, but that group looks to have a high ceiling.

    That means Schultz will be gone at some point. It pains me to say it, because I have always cheered for him, but he just doesn’t seem to be able to play strong enough defense. I had hoped he would be so much more than Tom Gilbert lite. He isn’t.

    Up front, Purcell gets traded at the deadline. Yak likely is gone at the draft.

    The ones to watch at the deadline will be Gryba (he is cheap and the type teams want in the playoffs), Purcell and Schultz.

  12. BAUCE says:

    hunter1909:
    RNH + Eberle shouldn’t be making plans to stick around.

    This has nothing to do with my opinion re either player.

    On the other hand,what happens with either/both of these players lights it up Seguin style for their new team?

    If the oilers are winning because of the return on those two then I wouldn’t care what they are doing on other teams.

  13. LMHF#1 says:

    They already have McDavid’s Kurri. He wears #10 and appears to sync wonderfully with #97.

  14. Caramel Obvious says:

    I couldn’t finish the last thread because of the script issue (and it is a real problem, keeps crashing everything) but trading for Vatanen is a great idea.

    The trade proposals, though, are absurd. Yakupov isn’t anywhere near enough. The asking price is Eberle and a bad contract, I bet. Get it down to Eberle for Vatanen straight up and you have a reasonable deal (I think).

  15. monsterbater says:

    Reposting from previous thread because LT always posts a new blog the minute i post anything…. How does he know????

    I think it will require several moves between now and training camp, but i believe there is a way to get those 2 RHD we need to balance out this roster.

    For example:
    Trade the UFAs like purcell and gryba at the deadline to stock the prospect/picks shelves. Purcell can always resign here in the offseason ala Winnick etc.

    Come draft day that top 3 pick is going to be mighty juicy to several teams. Would that pick for shattenkirk and st. louis’ 1st rounder (low 20’s) work? Probably. You can add picks either way to make it work. I don’t do this though without a signed shattenkirk for no more than 6 years at around $6.5/year.

    Then flip that St. Louis pick to NYI with say either a davidson (if they want cheap, good and young) or fayne (if they want steady veteran), for hamonic. Maybe this works.

    Walk Schultz to make the money work this coming year, and try like hell to trade fayne for anything that isn’t money if he isn’t in the hamonic deal to make it work past this coming year.

    This is fairly pie in the sky but you never know what can happen when someone falls in love with a prospect, especially with the talent available in the top 4-5 this year. It leaves us without a 1st rounder this year, but who cares. You can also substitute eberle for one of those 1st rounders if necessary. I think nuge or drai is the 1st line RW long term.

  16. Woodguy says:

    My guesses on current Oilers who will not be in Oiler camp next year:

    Traded
    Eberle
    Yakupov
    Schultz

    Not re-signed
    Nilsson
    Klinkhammer
    Gazdic
    Gryba (might be traded at deadline)

    Bought-out
    Ference

    That’s 8 players off of a roster that currently stands at 25 with LTIR, so that’s 32% of the roster.

    *might be gone, but I don’t see it happening*
    Fayne
    Korpikoski

  17. stevezie says:

    Imagine having Hall drive one line and McD driving the other.

    Let’s just say McD, Pou and Yak are a line, let’s just say. Are we better off loading Hall, Eberle and RNH/Drai for the second line, or keeping the pairs? And if we load up the second line, does it make sense to pay RNH to be our Jordan Stall with 3rd line wingers? No way he scores at a six million dollar rate in this roll, will he still be worth the money?

  18. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Most teams that have done well seem to have an above average top 4 with an elite guy in that top 4.
    Here is a sampling of cup winning teams top 4 guys based on EV/TOI since the 04/05 lockout.
    Using the method stated above of an above average top 4 with an elite guy in that top 4.

    Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson Oduya
    Rafalski, Lidstrom, Stuart, Kronwall,
    Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Ference
    Doughty, Muzzin, Mitchell, Voynov

    Anaheim crazily did it with 3 guys.
    Beachemin, Neidermayer and Pronger were all playing 30 minutes a night all situations.
    O’Donnell, Rome and Huskins barely saw the ice.
    Basiclly bottom pairing Dmen don’t appear to matter.
    The Key is having those top 4 guys stay healthy.

    If I look at the Oilers current lineup they have
    Klefbom, Nurse, Sekera, Davidson and Reinhart battling it out to be their top 4 guys.
    The trouble is Klefbom and Davidson need more reps, and Nurse and Reinhart are just starting their professional careers.

    Conclusion:
    The Oilers could really use an upgrade in the top 4 preferably on the right side or just wait it out and hope Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson and Reinhart all develop in a straight line.

  19. stevezie says:

    GB&Q,

    Who knows who is available in the off-season, but I am retty warm to the idea of keeping Lander to play wing for Letestu on next year’s 4th line.

    The roster will change, but as of now if everyone were healthy we wouldn’t play our 4th line much at evens. Having a speciality penalty killer like Lander who plays cheap and won’t cost you any games makes a lot of sense.

  20. Snowman says:

    Traded by September
    Fayne
    Schultz (if they can find a dance partner, not resigned if they can’t)
    Eberle
    Gryba
    Purcell

    Not resigned
    Klink
    Nilsson
    Gaz

    Ference will be bought out hip injury willing.

    Nuge is gone if Stamkos somehow decides to come here which I put at about a 10% chance due to the Mcdavid factor.

    If Kassian plays a solid 30 games down the stretch he will save us from backing the money truck up to Lucic.

  21. hunter1909 says:

    LMHF#1:
    They already have McDavid’s Kurri. He wears #10 and appears to sync wonderfully with #97.

    Yes, but Lowetide wants him gone, and it’s his blog, so…

  22. hunter1909 says:

    Snowman: If Kassian plays a solid 30 games down the stretch he will save us from backing the money truck up to Lucic.

    Not a snowball’s chance in hell that Lucic signs for Edmonton.

    This is a HFBoards level fantasy that needs to be exorcised once and for all.

    PS: Kassian can do most of anything that Lucic’s capable of doing. Oilers stole this player to even up the Petry trade.

  23. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Snowman: If Kassian plays a solid 30 games down the stretch he will save us from backing the money truck up to Lucic.

    “It’s obviously something that’s been a dream of mine since I’ve been a kid, is to play in your hometown and play for the Canucks, but right now the main focus is going down to L.A. and trying to make the most of that.” – Milan Lucic

    If Lucic goes UFA good luck getting him to come to Edmonton.
    He’s already got his cup, and has already stated his dream is to play with his hometown Canucks.
    Vancouver also has a GM that is familiar with Lucic and is prone to throwing around excess amounts of money at bad players like Sutter, Dorsett & Sbisa.
    I have complete confidence that Jim Benning will back up the Brinks truck to give Lucic a “hometown” discount if he makes it to UFA. (which he most likely will)

  24. Hall Awaits says:

    Gone:
    Teddy Purcell
    2nd at the deadline. Would like to see him resigned at reasonable deal. Won’t happen.

    Justin Schultz
    3rd rounder at the Deadline.

    Mark Fayne
    Scott Hartnell or someone with term/size/grit/blah.

    Benoit Pouliot
    Someone like Berglund (needs new deal) or Bickell (not close to equal, salary dump). I think he’s toast under this regime.

    Jordan Eberle
    Hello, Travis Hamonic.

    Anton Lander
    I had high hopes for the pirate. Gone to a team trying to save cash this summer. I’ll say for Brian Boyle in Tampa. Packaged with a pick.

    Lauri Korpikoski
    Anyone?

    Nail Yakupov
    *Sob
    Is there anyway you could get McCaron out of Montreal in a multi player swap? Probably not. Dare to dream.

    I think we see skill sacrificed for size this summer.

  25. Professor Q says:

    hunter1909: Yes, but Lowetide wants him gone, and it’s his blog, so…

    Lowetide wants McDavid gone?

    Blasphemy!

  26. Psyche says:

    LT,

    “radio didn’t pay big money then” – Does this mean it pays big now? If so, how do I get into the action!

    Coach Flemming doing a great job with development. Kudos to the work he is doing on the streets of Bakersfield.

    Was Coach Nelson more of a performance coach in OKC? I.e. Trying to win more than develop with more ice time to vets.

  27. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy:
    My guesses on current Oilers who will not be in Oiler camp next year:

    Traded
    Eberle
    Yakupov
    Schultz

    Not re-signed
    Nilsson
    Klinkhammer
    Gazdic
    Gryba (might be traded at deadline)

    Bought-out
    Ference

    That’s 8 players off of a roster that currently stands at 25 with LTIR, so that’s 32% of the roster.

    *might be gone, but I don’t see it happening*
    Fayne
    Korpikoski

    Nailed it. No pun intended.

  28. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy: My guesses on current Oilers who will not be in Oiler camp next year:

    Woodguy: Yakupov

    I’m going to hold you personally responsible for this.

  29. Snowman says:

    hunter1909,

    I’m pretty sure Lucic will resign in LA if they’ve got space for him. Also, I don’t want Lucic. At all. I’m quite happy with Kassian. I don’t think he’s going to come here. I just think that Chia would try to get him and it would be a huge payday.

    So to reiterate: I don’t want Lucic, I like Kassian, I don’t think he would come here but I think Chia would try very very hard to get him.

  30. 719 says:

    About the D, I have read alot of the posts and like the ideas. The only issue with getting rid of Fayne is his contract, so I believe he will be on the roster next year. I am fine with him and Sekera being a 2nd pairing, if we can get a legit first pairing D. Who is that man? I believe others would have a better idea than me.

    Klef – Legit 1st pairing D
    Sekera-Fayne
    Davidson-Reinhart/Nurse
    Musil

    I think Klef plays a little bit above where we would like him ideally, but a true blue number one defender probably can make him shine a bit better.

    I have no idea about the forwards.

  31. oliveoilers says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    I couldn’t finish the last thread because of the script issue (and it is a real problem, keeps crashing everything) but trading for Vatanen is a great idea.

    The trade proposals, though, are absurd.Yakupov isn’t anywhere near enough.The asking price is Eberle and a bad contract, I bet.Get it down to Eberle for Vatanen straight up and you have a reasonable deal (I think).

    If this was what you were trying to post yesterday, no wonder you had problems. The internet knows…..

    Yak is to Vatanen what Vatanen is to Eberle.

  32. Water Fire says:

    Lucic is well noted for careful, considered speech and an even temperament.

    I’d say McL and Chia give the Oilers as good a shot as any with players they know and would want, with McDavid being a siren that many will not want to resist.

    I have put trade proposals up a few times, but after looking yesterday at how PP points actually pan out and how few guys are good at PP and 5v5 (meaning most of them need sheltering and many of them need that and also require a lot of pay), all I can really come up with is that I think we’ll be surprised at who they see as contributors.

    I think McLellan’s comment about Yak playing two ways is a tell on the coach at least – he values solid play over just offense. I do to so I like that.

    I also think they might retain Schultz instead of re-buying what he does in a trade. That contradicts the two way statement I just made, but they and previous coaches seem to like what he brings despite how a lot of us feel about his play and stats.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Hamonic/Demers Gryba Schultz right side with a lefty traded for the top guy if it’s not Demers. I’m not sure I like that.

  33. stener says:

    Has anyone mentioned Tyson Barrie as a possible target? RFA this summer, making $3.2 this year. Right handed puck mover. The HERO charts love him:
    http://public.tableau.com/shared/46XQZZCZ8

    Colorado has salary tied up in Beauchemin, Johnson and Stuart into next season and he will be commanding upwards of $5M.

    Could you trade them Yakupov + picks/prospects? I don’t know which of their C’s plays wing, but NHL.com only lists Iginla, Skille and Chris Wagner as their natural RWs.

    I feel like Colorado’s management would be the easiest to swindle out of our identified candidates (St Lou, NYI, Anaheim)

  34. Woogie63 says:

    2 Things will guide who goes;

    1) Will NOT be able to get a true top 4 dman in a trade or UFA.
    2) Will need to change the core.

    So,

    Gryba, Ference, NN (do we need to write this?) are gone …. Fayne stays

    Eberle, Shultz, Lander and Purcell are gone draft picks or high end prospects.

    Watch for 2 loaded scoring lines and two big grinding lines with defence by committee. Nilsson or LB depending on who wins the job, the loser plays on the farm

  35. raventalon40 says:

    Professor Q: Lowetide wants McDavid gone?

    Blasphemy!

    LT, why do you hate McDavid?

    😉

  36. JDï™ says:

    James Mirtle Verified account
    ‏@mirtle

    Ducks put Clendening on waivers.

  37. Centre of attention says:

    Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva · 12m12 minutes ago
    Waivers: ADAM CLENDENING
    ANA

  38. SNPmarty009 says:

    This is driving me nuts. Klefbom has looked great this year! He’s looked like an above average top 4 guy! My line of thought is that 27 mins a night is too much though, hes only 22. In an 82 game season, no one should be playing 27 mins a night. Thats for must win games and for the playoffs. You need to look at the top four spots in the lineup as actual roster positions. Fayne isnt a top 4 guy. Nurse right now, would be much better supported as a bottom pair guy with davidson next year. Both can play spot duty in top 4. Unless a player can play spot duty as a top 2, they shouldnt be looked at in the top 4. My point is that instead of going after a top 2 guy like overpaying for byfuglien, we DESPERATELY NEED two top 4 guys. Like when NYI got leddy and boychuk and magically turned from a dumpster fire into a dangerous playoff wildcard. Or when calgary got wideman and all of a sudden it didnt matter that their best centre was 19. To me, we can keep going the pitt/colorado/carolina route of getting sick centres and then clipping their wings with all sorts of awful d cores, or we can do the hard thing and reshape our D. At this point, id rather ship Nuge, Eberle, Yakupov, Pouliot and our first just to get two right handed guys who can play in the top 4 than to get one guy for the top 4, put nurse in there by default, have someone get injured and look like this exact same stupid team again next year. I think it only takes a hamonic trade and a demers signing (if hes available) but we need to get rid of schultz, fayne, nikitin, and we need to treat gryba like a 7th dman again. I dont know if anyone undersands my logic, but when we were a shit team for two decades, at least we understood that the strength of your D core is what gets you in the playoffs! Sorry grif, i didnt want you because we already have a nurse and good teams dont develop defensemen four at a time! Whats it gunna take to get an adam larsson around here?

  39. LMHF#1 says:

    stener:
    Has anyone mentioned Tyson Barrie as a possible target? RFA this summer, making $3.2 this year.Right handed puck mover.The HERO charts love him:
    http://public.tableau.com/shared/46XQZZCZ8

    Multiple times, yes.

  40. Quinlan says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    I couldn’t finish the last thread because of the script issue (and it is a real problem, keeps crashing everything) but trading for Vatanen is a great idea.

    The trade proposals, though, are absurd.Yakupov isn’t anywhere near enough.The asking price is Eberle and a bad contract, I bet.Get it down to Eberle for Vatanen straight up and you have a reasonable deal (I think).

    How you conclude that Eberle for Vatanen is reasonable is beyond me. What analysis are you using?

  41. LMHF#1 says:

    JDï™:
    James Mirtle Verified account
    ‏@mirtle

    Ducks put Clendening on waivers.

    Does he have health issues or something?

    Substantial drops in production and games played in the last couple years.

    But hey, he’s an RHD.

  42. Soup Fascist says:

    Klima’s_Bucket: “It’s obviously something that’s been a dream of mine since I’ve been a kid, is to play in your hometown and play for the Canucks, but right now the main focus is going down to L.A. and trying to make the most of that.” – Milan Lucic

    I guess Looch can forgive and forget. I appreciate you including that recent quote because this is the one I remember:

    “That’s one of the worst parts. It’s in my hometown,” Lucic said. “Going back to the spray painting of the church and my grandparents and parents and family getting harassed during the final against the Canucks in 2011, it’s escalated to a point where I get attacked for just minding my own business. I have no reason left to defend my city and the people in my city. I’m disgusted and outraged that it had to come to something like that.

    “So, as far as that goes, other than being at Rogers Arena, no one will ever see me in downtown Vancouver ever again … ” – Milan Lucic

    Pretty abrupt change of heart. Maybe he won’t actually kill Dale Weise, either ……

  43. Pouzar says:

    LMHF#1: Multiple times, yes.

    Check out his comp.

    http://blackhawkup.com/2015/01/09/chicago-blackhawks-top-prospects/

    4. Adam Clendening, D, Rockford IceHogs– Adam Clendening is ready for the NHL. Let’s just say it. In the AHL he’s scored 105 points in only 147 games while playing with an edge defensively. Were he on any other team Clendening would be in the league. But with one of the deepest and most experienced d-core’s in the league Clendening has been forced to wait longer than he’d probably like. However, he’s only an injury away from a call-up.

    By-the numbers– 30 GP- 1 G- 9 A- 10 PTS

    Areas of improvement– One area Clendening needs to improve is keeping his feet moving more consistently. He’s a good skater but sometimes gets caught standing in place.

    NHL Projection– Clendening projects as an offensive defensemen with top-4 paring potential. He compares very favorably to Tyson Barrie of the Colorado Avalanche.

  44. blackadder says:

    In an ideal world, we win the lottery and then trade the pick to Phoenix for OEL.

    In reality, hope we’re able to get one of Shattenkirk or Vatanen (top 4 RH defender who can run a power play). Harmonic would be nice too, but think we need to focus more on players with offensive ability.

    Trying to get a high end defenceman via free agency means a significant overpay in both salary and term and is a route best avoided. Use FA to upgrade forward depth.

    One of Yakupov or Eberle are gone ( more likely Eberle) . Given the coach’s comments on Nuge I think he stays. Gadzic, Lander, Korpikoski, Purcell all likely gone as well, and we may need to give up one of Klefbom, Reinhardt or Davidson too. Schultz won’t be back.

    it’ll be yet another high turnover year.

  45. LMHF#1 says:

    Pouzar: Check out his comp.

    http://blackhawkup.com/2015/01/09/chicago-blackhawks-top-prospects/

    4. Adam Clendening, D, Rockford IceHogs– Adam Clendening is ready for the NHL. Let’s just say it. In the AHL he’s scored 105 points in only 147 games while playing with an edge defensively. Were he on any other team Clendening would be in the league. But with one of the deepest and most experienced d-core’s in the league Clendening has been forced to wait longer than he’d probably like. However, he’s only an injury away from a call-up.

    By-the numbers– 30 GP- 1 G- 9 A- 10 PTS

    Areas of improvement– One area Clendening needs to improve is keeping his feet moving more consistently. He’s a good skater but sometimes gets caught standing in place.

    NHL Projection– Clendening projects as an offensive defensemen with top-4 paring potential. He compares very favorably to Tyson Barrie of the Colorado Avalanche.

    HA! Nice.

  46. LMHF#1 says:

    blackadder:
    In an ideal world, we win the lottery and then trade the pick to Phoenix for OEL.

    You’re making a funny, funny joke right?

  47. Centre of attention says:

    Mike Johnson ‏@mike_p_johnson · 5m5 minutes ago  Toronto, Ontario
    News out of Anaheim, hearing that Shawn Horcoff is facing a lengthy suspension for an off ice issue. Details still coming.

  48. Pouzar says:

    LMHF#1: You’re making a funny, funny joke right?

    I saw him good in the AHL playoffs against the Barons last year. I was like who the heck is this guy? His name was being called a lot.

  49. Quinlan says:

    With a view to making a trade for the long-term success of the franchise, there is one winger that stands out.

    Jordan Eberle.

    He represents best value and salary fit in a deal for a top pair D-man

    Eberle out for an excellent defenceman (Hamonic), Laine/Puljujarvi/Tkachuk in for Eberle. You get bigger up front (possibly just as talented), and much deeper on the back end.

    I have long been a fan of Eberle’s, but moving him for a legitimate top 4 option just makes too much long-term sense from a cap, size, and blueline perspective. Provided it’s possible, of course.

    I’d throw in extra to get Hamonic (who is underrated around here, methinks).

  50. LMHF#1 says:

    Soup Fascist: I guess Looch can forgive and forget.I appreciate you including that recent quote because this is the one I remember:
    Maybe he won’t actually kill Dale Weise, either ……

    How much is Dale Weise going to get paid this offseason? Talk about an interesting career path.

  51. Centre of attention says:

    I could see the Oilers maybe claiming Clendening

  52. Showerhead says:

    HA. That commercial-ending snow shower was a surprise. Bet they wouldn’t let something like that make the final cut in a modern shoot.

  53. LMHF#1 says:

    Pouzar: I saw him good in the AHL playoffs against the Barons last year. I was like who the heck is this guy? His name was being called a lot.

    Wrong quote!

  54. Caramel Obvious says:

    Quinlan,

    In response to your earlier question, I think Vatanen is better than Hamonic.

  55. Soup Fascist says:

    Pouzar: Check out his comp.

    http://blackhawkup.com/2015/01/09/chicago-blackhawks-top-prospects/

    4. Adam Clendening, D, Rockford IceHogs– Adam Clendening is ready for the NHL. Let’s just say it. In the AHL he’s scored 105 points in only 147 games while playing with an edge defensively. Were he on any other team Clendening would be in the league. But with one of the deepest and most experienced d-core’s in the league Clendening has been forced to wait longer than he’d probably like. However, he’s only an injury away from a call-up.

    Pick him up!! He is by far my favorite Dening brother!!

  56. JDï™ says:

    Elliotte Friedman Verified account
    ‏@FriedgeHNIC

    Elliotte Friedman Retweeted Mike Johnson

    Not exactly sure what the story is here…but sounds like 20 games is the suspension

    Mike Johnson Verified account
    ‏@mike_p_johnson

    News out of Anaheim, hearing that Shawn Horcoff is facing a lengthy suspension for an off ice issue. Details still coming.

  57. Pouzar says:

    Mark Spector (@SportsnetSpec) | Twitter

    https://twitter.com/SportsnetSpec

    PEDs for Horcoff, NHL announces

  58. skidplate says:

    Horcoff suspended 20 games for PED. WOW, who knew?

  59. Soup Fascist says:

    Pouzar:
    Mark Spector (@SportsnetSpec) | Twitter

    https://twitter.com/SportsnetSpec

    PEDs for Horcoff, NHL announces

    Man, he has got an IRON CLAD defence if “PE” stands for “Performance Enhancing” as I suspect it does. Launch the appeal TODAY.

    “Your Honor, clearly my client could NOT have been taking PEDs” ……. Fack, even the chick that lost every f’ing case to Matlock could win this one.

  60. russ99 says:

    Considering Chiarelli’s spoken goal to get us to play heavier and the possibility of MacT and Howson being replaced before July 1, here’s who I expect to be moved before then:

    RFAS: Gazdic, Schultz, Nilsson, Pitlick, Gernat, Kessy

    UFAS: Purcell, Klinkhammer, Nikitin, Miller, Hamilton, Hunt

    Signed players traded (if possible): Pouliot, Korpikoski, Lander, Fayne, Ference (buyout or LTIR)

    Resigned FAs: Pakarinen (R), Gryba (U), Davidson (R), Kassian (R), Musil (R), Broissoit (R)

  61. raventalon40 says:

    skidplate:
    Horcoff suspended 20 games for PED. WOW, who knew?

    I wonder which aspect of his performance was enhanced?

    Too

  62. raventalon40 says:

    skidplate:
    Horcoff suspended 20 games for PED. WOW, who knew?

    I wonder which aspect of his performance was enhanced? lol

    Too bad about that. I was always a fan. Horcoff was always a guy I thought off as a professional and a great all-around athlete, despite what people had said about his contract and his performance coming back from injury. I’m sure the full story will come out soon, but no matter what happened, doesn’t look good for him.

  63. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Oilspill:

    It’s possible for most of us here to disagree with another person’s opinion without misrepresenting it, then spewing epithets about that person’s intelligence or misogynist comments for no apparent reason. This is usually a place for adult conversation. Care to join us?

  64. skidplate says:

    raventalon40,

    Yes I liked him as well. Always seemed very professional. Possibly due to age and the NHL becoming a younger mans games, he may have thought he needed a boost.

  65. Tire Fire says:

    Bruce McCurdy: It’s possible for most of us here to disagree with another person’s opinion without misrepresenting it, then spewing epithets about that person’s intelligence or misogynist comments for no apparent reason. This is usually a place for adult conversation. Care to join us?

    Hear, hear.

  66. striker says:

    Oilspill,

    Really? Keep this type of misogyny and name calling off this site. State your opinion and let it stand on its own merit.

  67. striker says:

    Bruce McCurdy: It’s possible for most of us here to disagree with another person’s opinion without misrepresenting it, then spewing epithets about that person’s intelligence or misogynist comments for no apparent reason. This is usually a place for adult conversation. Care to join us?

    +1

  68. RexLibris says:

    Of all the deadline deals on the table for Chiarelli, the key one in my mind is Schultz.

    The Oilers cannot afford to go into the off-season having cleared the cap space of Scrivens, Nikitin and, perhaps, Gryba only to retain Schultz at around $4 million (which is the minimum they’d have to spend to keep him).

    It would be two steps forward, one step back, and would hinder the progress that needs to be made on the free-agent front.

    You can sell of the Purcells and Grybas fairly regularly, but moving the pending RFA is going to be a key test for Chiarelli. I doubt he moves the contract out the door for picks, but perhaps an RFA swap with another team will happen.

  69. Pouzar says:

    RexLibris:
    Of all the deadline deals on the table for Chiarelli, the key one in my mind is Schultz.

    The Oilers cannot afford to go into the off-season having cleared the cap space of Scrivens, Nikitin and, perhaps, Gryba only to retain Schultz at around $4 million (which is the minimum they’d have to spend to keep him).

    It would be two steps forward, one step back, and would hinder the progress that needs to be made on the free-agent front.

    You can sell of the Purcells and Grybas fairly regularly, but moving the pending RFA is going to be a key test for Chiarelli. I doubt he moves the contract out the door for picks, but perhaps an RFA swap with another team will happen.

    This.

    Time to move on.

  70. RJ2016 says:

    If you factor in the raises given to Klefbom and Davidson, that takes up all of Nikitin’s salary, no?

    RexLibris:
    Of all the deadline deals on the table for Chiarelli, the key one in my mind is Schultz.

    The Oilers cannot afford to go into the off-season having cleared the cap space of Scrivens, Nikitin and, perhaps, Gryba only to retain Schultz at around $4 million (which is the minimum they’d have to spend to keep him).

    It would be two steps forward, one step back, and would hinder the progress that needs to be made on the free-agent front.

    You can sell of the Purcells and Grybas fairly regularly, but moving the pending RFA is going to be a key test for Chiarelli. I doubt he moves the contract out the door for picks, but perhaps an RFA swap with another team will happen.

  71. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Soup Fascist: Man, he has got an IRON CLAD defence if “PE” stands for “Performance Enhancing” as I suspect it does.Launch the appeal TODAY.

    I don’t entirely agree with it, but your take did make me laugh. Reminds me of the old joke, “He was charged with indecent exposure but released for lack of evidence.”

  72. RexLibris says:

    RJ2016:
    If you factor in the raises given to Klefbom and Davidson, that takes up all of Nikitin’s salary, no?

    Close. NN was $4.5 million, Klefbom is just a hair over $4.1 million. Damned near a wash.

    WoI (requiem in pace) has the Oilers with $15 million in cap space right now. Talbot is making $4.1, which is just below twice what Scrivens was making.

    The real cap gains will be if they move Purcell and Eberle. I don’t think they can move both unless they have an absolute lock on signing a replacement winger, but they can’t afford to move out Purcell and re-sign Schultz, because if so then the blueline remains locked in place by both money and roster spots.

  73. Caramel Obvious says:

    How is Chiarelli going to get anything for Schultz? Who would want him?

  74. RexLibris says:

    If anyone is interested in grabbing it for future use, FN found a wonderful gif of a rather forlorn-looking Sam Bennett: http://flamesnation.ca/2016/1/26/stars-2-flames-1-post-game-embers-the-trade-deadline-is-still-a-month-away

    Don’t know the context, but the expression on his face is as if his cookies are too big to fit in his milk glass.

  75. RexLibris says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    How is Chiarelli going to get anything for Schultz?Who would want him?

    It’s the trade deadline.

    For GMs, I go back to the old Jack Nicholson line from As Good As It Gets – ” I think of a man, then I take away reason and accountability.”

  76. square_wheels says:

    Pouzar,

    In all honesty, Horcoff made a great bet and it paid off. Older athletes can still get a few extra years of 1M/season contracts, and if they get caught, lose 25%. Hard to see the logic in not pursuing this several year extension.

    Pro athletes are WAYYYY ahead of testing.

    Shane Doan says – “FU Comrade Horcoff, shoulda used MY Russian special sauce”

  77. Quinlan says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Quinlan,

    In response to your earlier question, I think Vatanen is better than Hamonic.

    Wow. Interesting.

    Any reason in particular?

  78. RexLibris says:

    Hadn’t noticed it until this morning, but lost amidst all the deadline hoopla and trade talk, the Blue Jackets beat the Canadiens 5-2 last night on only 20 shots.

    Bergevin is a smart guy, but if there were a team I’d target for a little aggressive sell-job, it might be Montreal. They have virtually no cap space (NHLNumbers lists them at about $118K), but I can’t help but think that Purcell looks an awful lot like the kind of winger they’d be interested in.

  79. marty62 says:

    skidplate:
    Horcoff suspended 20 games for PED. WOW, who knew?

    If its PED’s he should go to his dealer and get his money back….. the drugs arent working……..

  80. RJ2016 says:

    I think that would depend on when and if Price comes back. I’ve seen more than one suggestion they should think about tanking.

    RexLibris,

  81. frjohnk says:

    RexLibris:
    Hadn’t noticed it until this morning, but lost amidst all the deadline hoopla and trade talk, the Blue Jackets beat the Canadiens 5-2 last night on only 20 shots.

    Bergevin is a smart guy, but if there were a team I’d target for a little aggressive sell-job, it might be Montreal. They have virtually no cap space (NHLNumbers lists them at about $118K, but I can’t help but think that Purcell looks an awful lot like the kind of winger they’d be interested in.

    If Price is not back this year, Habs best course would be to sell off their UFA’s. They are not a playoff team without him.

    But the pressure is on them to make it to the playoffs and desperate men can make desperate decisions. How desperate is Bergevin? Wouldn’t hurt to find out.

  82. vinotintazo says:

    RexLibris: Bergevin is a smart guy, but if there were a team I’d target for a little aggressive sell-job, it might be Montreal. They have virtually no cap space (NHLNumbers lists them at about $118K), but I can’t help but think that Purcell looks an awful lot like the kind of winger they’d be interested in.

    isnt Purcell like a PA Parenteau?

    good complementary and playmaker winger (RH).

    they didnt resign him after last year. so I doubt they are interested in Teddy.

  83. Caramel Obvious says:

    Quinlan,

    Well I haven’t done a thorough analysis or anything, but Hamonic doesn’t jump off the page as a better possession player and Vatanen does jump off the page as a better offensive player.

    Hamonic is a good player but not great player. Moreover he is never going to be great.

    Vatanen is a good player who might be a very good player. There is a lot more upside here and I don’t see the evidence of the downside (in comparison to Hamonic). It isn’t as simply that one is better defensively than the other, we don’t know that. We do, however, know that Vatanen is better offensively.

  84. Tire Fire says:

    RexLibris:
    Hadn’t noticed it until this morning, but lost amidst all the deadline hoopla and trade talk, the Blue Jackets beat the Canadiens 5-2 last night on only 20 shots.

    Bergevin is a smart guy, but if there were a team I’d target for a little aggressive sell-job, it might be Montreal. They have virtually no cap space (NHLNumbers lists them at about $118K, but I can’t help but think that Purcell looks an awful lot like the kind of winger they’d be interested in.

    Do they have any D-men we could try and sneak? Hopefully someone in their prime, but not too expensive. Maybe someone who has spent some time in western Canada so they know the weather.

  85. RexLibris says:

    Tire Fire: Do they have any D-men we could try and sneak?Hopefully someone in their prime, but not too expensive.Maybe someone who has spent some time in western Canada so they know the weather.

    Well, they’ve got this Gilbert guy…

  86. Gerta Rauss says:

    Ed Stein has this on Horcoff

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ed-Stein/Horcoff-Suspended-for-20-games/210/74318

    The NHL Players Association released the following statement on Horcoff’s behalf:

    While recovering from an injury I suffered this past fall, I tried a treatment that I believed would help speed up the healing process.

    Although I was unaware that this treatment was not permitted under NHL rules, that is no excuse whatsoever. I should have done my research, and I should have checked with the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program’s doctors. I accept full responsibility for my actions, and I am sorry.

    Throughout my entire career, I have felt genuinely blessed and honored to play the great game of hockey, and I regret the impact that this may have on my team and our fans.

    I look forward to the day I return to the ice for the playoff push.

  87. Lowetide says:

    A quick note: Posting here is not a right, but an opportunity extended. If you choose to bully, demean or generally involve yourself in asshattery, your posts will be deleted. We start there, after that the chapters get ugly. Thanks.

  88. Quinlan says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I’d be interested in seeing who Vatanen is up against and playing with. He gets a slight OZ push, but that should be expected.

    I’ve been digging and everything I’ve looked up corroborates with your viewpoint. I may be coming around to this.

    I still don’t think that he will cost Eberle, but he seems to be the better target (vs. Hamonic).

  89. OF17 says:

    Too bad about Horcoff. I believe him when he says he didn’t know. Doesn’t excuse him not checking, but I’ve always respected the man, and today’s news doesn’t change that.

    On the subject of Schultz, I’ve always seen Toronto as a possible destination. Young, rebuilding club with tons of cap space and not many RHD. Schultz is of course about as far from a Babcock player as you can get, but for a 3rd round pick, I could see them trying. Never underestimate the power of fame in giving second chances.

    Would love to see Vatanen here, but it’s tough to see how it works. Anaheim is starved for scoring, so why would they trade their best offensive D? He’s 4th in scoring on the team BTW, one back of Rakell for 3rd. It would have to be Eberle to make sense for them, and we’d likely have to add something and take back a contract like Silfverberg’s.

    If we’re going that route, I’d rather roll the dice on Shattenkirk. Yeah, he could walk in a year, but the whole idea of that trade is that starting next year, the Oilers will be the type of team players want to play for, regardless of weather, culture, and travel. Guy comes in, likes the room, likes playing 22+ minutes a game getting fed by McDavid, is in the playoff race, and sees a 7-year $49ish-million contract in front of him, and I think we have as good a shot as anyone at signing him. No one else on the market would revolutionize our defense like Shattenkirk would.

  90. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Not a chance.

    Hamonic is #1 on the Isles, with a bullet.

    Vatanen is #3 on the Ducks, but he’s struggling enough this year that they consider him as expendable.

    Hamonic is only available because he asked for a trade. Otherwise, no way in hell would he be moved. You just don’t voluntarily move a young 1D signed to a value contract.

    P.S. 1 – Hamonic is not a point getter, but he is a puck mover.

    P.S. 2 – This idea that Vatanen has a ton of potential while Hamonic has peaked is another of those bizarre assumptions that keeps being repeated for reasons I just don’t understand. I assume that because Hamonic is so established people just assume he must be 28 or 29, like Petry.

    Vatanen is 24.

    Hamonic is 25. Everyone got that?!?! He’s TWENTY FIVE. He’s one month YOUNGER that Justin Schultz. He has JUST NOW hit his peak as a defenseman.

    One is a clear #1D on a good team, the other is a struggling #3D on a good team.

    I take Hamonic, in a heartbeat.

    I’d like to have them both.

    But if it’s a choice, it’s not a close choice.

  91. vinotintazo says:

    G Money: P.S. 1 – Hamonic is not a point getter, but he is a puck mover.

    So he’s a Puck-Moving Mark Fayne.?
    EDIT: Or more like a Petry w/o the skating?

  92. raventalon40 says:

    Bruce McCurdy: I don’t entirely agree with it, but your take did make me laugh. Reminds me of the old joke, “He was charged with indecent exposure but released for lack of evidence.”

    In most of those cases there really is a pretty decent amount

  93. Caramel Obvious says:

    G Money,

    Hamonic has 10 pts. Ten. While playing 24 minutes a game.

    If Hamonic is a #1 D the term has no meaning.

    Note, the term does, in fact, have no meaning.

    Obviously he is not playing on the powerplay. That should also tell you something.

    Vatanen has more potential, not because he is younger, but because we know, with absolute certainty he is the better offensive player. Hamonic has a limitation that Vatanen doesn’t have. Hence Vatanen has more potential.

  94. Caramel Obvious says:

    Anyway, if the Ducks are smart it is Fowler who gets moved. He’s more famous and hence may command more in a trade. And if the return is the same, then you win because Vatanen is better than Fowler.

    I wouldn’t trade Eberle for Fowler. Unlike Vatanen, Fowler actually is struggling.

  95. BONVIE says:

    LMHF#1:
    They already have McDavid’s Kurri. He wears #10 and appears to sync wonderfully with #97.

    I think your paying Kurri a great disservice here. This is a guy who not only scored goals, but was probably the best defensive player ever to not win a Selke trophy. Many credible sources say it was because he was too offensive and scored too much and was over looked cause of his offense. In 84-85 he had a +76 in 73 games tell me anyone not named Bobby Orr, or Kurri’s own linemate The Great One that put up numbers like that, he went 5 consecutive years with a plus 38 or higher.

    Yakapov hasnt yet learned the defensive side of the game well enough, to even allow his coach to play him against other teams top 6 forwards.

  96. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Which makes the 23+ minutes a night that he does play all the more staggering, does it not?

  97. OF17 says:

    G Money,

    To put G’s point in perspective, Hamonic plays a full 2:53 more per night at ES than Johnny Boychuk.. That’s 2:42 more than Sekera and 3:20 more than Klefbom.

    He still leads the NYI defense in every shot category. Corsi, Corsi Rel, Corsi Rel QoC. Zone finish about 1% higher than zone start. Only area he doesn’t shine is HSCF%, but I’m sure part of that can be explained by the competition he faces.

    Hamonic is a damn fine defenseman. If he brought more offense, he’d be one of the best in the league. Unfortunate that he doesn’t fill that offensive need on the Oilers backend, but hey, he’d immediately make a huge impact.

  98. Quinlan says:

    G Money,

    Caramel Obvious,

    If Hamonic was a #1 wouldn’t we expect more offense? His ZS are pretty even so it’s not like he’s being caved in a la Gordon. Seems to me to be better than most Oiler D (I’ll still take Klef).

    Vatanen is good but not without warts. He’s producing very nicely this year though and had a monster season last year – his warts make him available or else there’s no way the Ducks move him.

    Seems to me the one is a Ryan Suter lite while the other is an Erik Karlsson lite.

    Hamonic will cost Eberle-value. Vatanen will not.

  99. Quinlan says:

    vinotintazo: So he’s a Puck-Moving Mark Fayne.?
    EDIT: Or more like a Petry w/o the skating?

    Hamonic is a mighty fine skater. If he has issues, I don’t see skating as one of them.

  100. russ99 says:

    G Money:
    Caramel Obvious,

    Not a chance.

    Hamonic is #1 on the Isles, with a bullet.

    Vatanen is #3 on the Ducks, but he’s struggling enough this year that they consider him as expendable.

    Hamonic is only available because he asked for a trade. Otherwise, no way in hell would he be moved.You just don’t voluntarily move a young 1D signed to a value contract.

    P.S. 1 – Hamonic is not a point getter, but he is a puck mover.

    P.S. 2 – This idea that Vatanen has a ton of potential while Hamonic has peaked is another of those bizarre assumptions that keeps being repeated for reasons I just don’t understand.I assume that because Hamonic is so established people just assume he must be 28 or 29, like Petry.

    Vatanen is 24.

    Hamonic is 25.Everyone got that?!?!He’s TWENTY FIVE.He’s one month YOUNGER that Justin Schultz. He has JUST NOW hit his peak as a defenseman.

    One is a clear #1D on a good team, the other is a struggling #3D on a good team.

    Age doesn’t figure into Schultz’s development curve, he played 3 years at Wisconsin when Hamonic was getting valuable WHL and AHL time.

    For those wanting to cut bait on Schultz, fine. It’s obvious he’s not a fit at the salary he’ll get.

    But the Oilers shouldn’t just trade him for garbage to get him off the books, we put a ton of development time into a player who with the right coach and the right team can meet some of his lofty expectations. Don’t want to see another Petry-like deal under this management.

  101. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    By that logic, Justin Schultz is a better defenseman than Travis Hamonic, since he’s put up 31 in 81, 33 in 74, and 27 in 48 over the last three seasons.

    Since there is no such thing as a 1D, the Oilers should have no problem trading Justin Schultz for Travis Hamonic since the former is in fact, a better defenseman.

    Please assert your idea in the public forum of your choice – that there is no such thing as a 1D, and the logical follow-on Schultz for Hamonic trade that ought to be a big win for the Islanders – and let me know how you fare.

  102. Snowman says:

    russ99,

    The big difference between Petry and Schultz is that Petry contributed positively on a regular basis and was the teams best defenseman.

    Schultz… not so much any of those things.

    If Schultz excels on another team, good for him but I’m skeptical he ever gets out of a bottom pairing role.

  103. G Money says:

    vinotintazo,

    OF17,

    Exactly right. The way folks here assess Hamonic, it sounds like he’s a 29 year old Rob Scuderi. He is in fact 25 years old, an excellent skater, solid defensively, is top 10 in the league in TOI for defensemen, his shot metrics against the monsters of the West are just as good as his shot metrics against the monsters of the East (all of whom he faces moreso than any other defender on his team), and his team struggles without him.

    The minute he joins the Oilers, he’s the #1 guy on D, and he’ll also be out 23 minutes a night.

    Yeah, we sure can’t use a guy like that.

    And yeah, a small offensive defenseman with decent boxcars but otherwise mediocre defensive skills like Vatanen sounds *just* like what we need.

  104. Water Fire says:

    Klefbom and Nurse are going to get points. Davidson might as well. It’s important to also have capable players – skate pass and move the puck on their own so the team can’t be hemmed in by cutting off his partner – that aren’t high points so they remain affordable. A variety of players are needed but the cutoff has to be skating and able to move the puck up, which would be a big step forward for the Oilers.

    Given the Oilers have 3-4 good young D some of which might get paid pretty well, and Sekera, a contract like Shattenkirk’s or Vatanen’s next might be a cap problem, and both need sheltering 5v5 as they are currently used. Shat is an upgrade on Schultz, but Vatanen is a lateral move at best that might cost more money.

    They have to think 4-5 years ahead when the team should be really strong and keeping a solid foundation that is built on the current advantages with the cap. They are in a really good place, and to screw it up whale hunting offensive D is a mistake unless it is a real horse of a player. It isn’t worth the a bunch of cap to make a 20% upgrade on Schultz that still needs a lot of shelter. There are not a lot of players that fit the bill.

    Unless they make a big trade for an all game phase young D, for depth the best play is Schultz short term @ 4M and enough added to put him third pair with an appropriate partner like Reinhart or Davidson.

    Klef XXX
    Nurse Sekera
    Davie/Reinhart Schutlz

    Just having 6 D with the whole range of hockey skills playing closer to their level and an upgrade at the top would make this a solid group as good as most these days.

  105. leadfarmer says:

    G Money,

    We need both. We need a top pairing defenseman and a pp qb preferably a righty for both. Unless you throw money at Byfuglien who is the only one available that covers both criteria and money wise he would be more expensive than Hamonic and Vatanen

  106. AsiaOil says:

    This all day long. we are already one of the best offensive teams in the league even with a defective transmission (defense) that really hobbles our transition game – but we are also one of the worst defensive teams. So for me the guy we need is top pair, solid defense, good passer – rather than 2nd pair, great offense, good passer. It’s Hamonic all day long and we have to get him without giving up Klef, Nurse or Sekera. That likely means 3 way with Eberle in the mix. How about this:

    To EDM: Hamonic, Berglund
    TO NYI: Shattenkirk
    To: STL: Eberle, Davidson (would prefer Davidson here but willing to go Griff if necessary)

    Hall RNH Drai
    Pou CMD Kass
    Hendricks Berglund Yak

    Klef Hamonic
    Nurse Sekera
    Davidson Gryba

    I think a 3 way is necessary but that’s tough to pull off. Must get a top pair guy and Hamonic is the only one I see as obviously available.

    G Money:
    Caramel Obvious,

    Not a chance.

    Hamonic is #1 on the Isles, with a bullet.

    Vatanen is #3 on the Ducks, but he’s struggling enough this year that they consider him as expendable.

    Hamonic is only available because he asked for a trade. Otherwise, no way in hell would he be moved.You just don’t voluntarily move a young 1D signed to a value contract.

    P.S. 1 – Hamonic is not a point getter, but he is a puck mover.

    P.S. 2 – This idea that Vatanen has a ton of potential while Hamonic has peaked is another of those bizarre assumptions that keeps being repeated for reasons I just don’t understand.I assume that because Hamonic is so established people just assume he must be 28 or 29, like Petry.

    Vatanen is 24.

    Hamonic is 25.Everyone got that?!?!He’s TWENTY FIVE.He’s one month YOUNGER that Justin Schultz. He has JUST NOW hit his peak as a defenseman.

    One is a clear #1D on a good team, the other is a struggling #3D on a good team.

    I take Hamonic, in a heartbeat.

    I’d like to have them both.

    But if it’s a choice, it’s not a close choice.

  107. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    G Money,

    Wow you are touchy today.

  108. Quinlan says:

    G Money,

    Vatanen is a mighty fine player, with impressive PP ability as well. As we’ve seen this year, that skill is hugely important for your hockey club.

    Boy, you and Caramel have me flip-flopping between the two. I agree that Hamonic is a top 2 option, but Vatanen has a very nice range of skills as well. Either, I think, would likely get top pairing minutes in Edmonton.

    What is it about Vatanen’s defence that concerns you? Seems to fit the Darryl Sutter description of a good blueliner.

  109. vinotintazo says:

    Quinlan: Hamonic is a mighty fine skater. If he has issues, I don’t see skating as one of them.

    I’m not saying its an issue… just asking if he’s as good at skating as say… a Nurse, Brodie, or Petry.

    I have to admit I havent seen much of hamonic, but from his stats, he’s basically what we hope klefbom will be. Shut Down, puck moving, good skating Dmen.

    If by some miracle he comes to Edm, he will be Edm’s best Dmen, although Kleff could catch up.

  110. Caramel Obvious says:

    OF17,

    And last year Hamonic was 5th on the team in shot metrics. I’m not sure what that proves.

    And anyway, I don’t even oppose a trade for Hamonic, but comparing him to top flight D in the league is absurd. There is no evidence he’s on that level. All the top players bring offense. All of them. Hamonic is closer to Petry than Suter.

    I’d rather have Vatanen.

  111. vinotintazo says:

    AsiaOil: we are already one of the best offensive teams in the league

    uh? please elaborate, I’m sure we’re bottom 5 in goals for per game, I might be wrong…

    Edit: Tied for 5th worse

  112. Caramel Obvious says:

    To listen to Gmoney talk you’d think he thinks that Hamonic is better than Shattenkirk. Which, contract aside, is plain crazy.

  113. Quinlan says:

    Boy, I’m throwing mighty fine around like it’s going out of style. Gotta get me some new expressions.

  114. OF17 says:

    AsiaOil,

    Really like that idea. Gives NYI a Hamonic replacement, gives STL more offense up front and a promising LHD, gives the Oilers a huge D upgrade and a big bodied center for the 3rd line.

    I’d mix up the lines a bit, running Kassian-McDavid-Yakupov and using Pouliot-Berglund as the basis for the 3rd line, but that’s nitpicking. Also nitpicking is that you traded Davidson and then used him in your lineup 🙂

  115. Caramel Obvious says:

    vinotintazo: uh? please elaborate, I’m sure we’re bottom 5 in goals for per game, I might be wrong…

    Yeah, that’s a crazy comment too. The Oilers are better than bottom 5 in goals but if you rank teams by only goals for they still don’t make the playoffs. They need offense from the D.

  116. kinger_OIL says:

    – One point: the narrative seems to be: “we have so much talent with our F group”, or “we are already one of the best offensive teams in the league”

    – WE ARE NOT A GOOD OFFENSIVE TEAM: WE ARE 20TH IN THE LEAGUE FOR SCORING. LAST

    – OK, back to your quibbling kids.

  117. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Fun thoughts:

    Managed to catch a bit of the Columbus-Habs game last night. Said it before and I’ll say it again Montreal is at best a bubble team without Price. Ironically they have all the pieces that the Oilers want (RHD, scoring from the backend and scoring from the bottom six) while the Oilers have exactly what Montreal needs (scoring) but the pieces won’t fit. Our old man Jeff P. Has been struggling of late from what I’ve heard. Wore the goat horns on the GWG last night and is a rough -13 since Price went out.

    The Vatenen-Hamonic debate seems to be taking on a weird sort of polarity. I Live out east so get to see a bunch of games/guys more frequently maybe than some on this blog but no matter. My two cents: someone above I think had it right Hamonic = Suter lite, Vatanen = Karlsson lite. I don’t really notice Hamonic at all when he is playing which is good for his style. I honestly think it may be a bit of a saw off. Vatanen put up great numbers last year as a 23 year old in the Pacific and has struggled offensively this year (which. Isn’t saying much when you look at Getzlaf’s totals) so I dunno if the gap between him and Hamonic is as big as G Money is making it out to be. Vatanen needs an RFA deal this year as well so the $ unknown is a fair point of conjecture but there is no reason why one couldn’t lock him up for a value deal at the end of the year and have him put up good points on an offensive team next years. Tough to decide between the two no doubt.

  118. Water Fire says:

    IMO Eberle has as much established value as Shattenkirk and more than Hamonic. Offense defines value in the NHL. I see straight up with Shat as even if the contract situation was even, two offense first average defense types. Eberle has more value than Hamonic, a top scorer over a defensive D that has a full range of ability.

    Good GM’s look beyond offense to include other abilities. Bergeron Kopitar Toews and Datsyuk don’t score the most but how many first line centres have a better overall game?

  119. Centre of attention says:

    #mnwild adds Andrew C. Thomas and Alexandra Mandrycky to its Hockey Operations department: http://ow.ly/XyXBf #NHL

  120. OF17 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    That’s fair about the shot metrics. One thing that’s remained constant though is Hamonic’s status as their 1D. Sometimes coaches make mistakes – Darnell Nurse playing more at ES than Sekera this year comes to mind – but if it’s consistently the same choice coming out of the gate, something has to be going on there.

  121. kinger_OIL says:

    – One point: the narrative seems to be: “we have so much talent with our F group”, or “we are already one of the best offensive teams in the league”

    – WE ARE NOT A GOOD OFFENSIVE TEAM: WE ARE 20TH IN THE LEAGUE FOR SCORING. LAST COUPLE OF YEARS WE HAVE BEEN BOTTOM 5 FOR SCORING

    – OK, back to your quibbling kids.

  122. Truth says:

    Out of town (by trade or letting them walk):
    Eberle
    Purcell
    Gryba
    1 of Lander or Letestu

  123. v4ance says:

    http://www.tsn.ca/it-s-time-for-the-jets-to-trade-ladd-1.428215

    “The Jets haven’t spoken in meaningful terms with Ladd’s camp for some time, instead focusing on Byfuglien.

    The most likely outcome now is the Jets signing Byfuglien and then making Ladd available on the trade market. Executives around the NHL have told their pro scouts to compile reports on Ladd and to back off on the Byfuglien book.”

    I didn’t see this snippet posted here earlier but it looks like Buff is more likely to sign in Winnipeg since contract talks have stalled with Ladd. Tough choice but I think they made the right one. Both contracts would be ugly in the last few years of the deal. 30 year old Buff or 30 year old Ladd for 6+ years? Defencemen tend to age slightly better than scoring forwards so I think Chevy is making the right choice.

    $6 million a year for Ladd in his declining years is a horrific bet to make since his best year was last year at 62 pts. He’s only ever been around a 50 pt player for the most part. If you’re going to pay for intangibles, pay $1 million forguys and put it on your 3rd/4th line. Top salaries need to go to guys driving play and producing points.

  124. Oilspill says:

    Why would they play Gryba and not resign him? My logic says if he’s not doing anything and sitting in the presser he’s not being resigned. Traded maybe. Chia would be stupid to not resign him if not traded after giving up some assets.

    Woodguy:
    My guesses on current Oilers who will not be in Oiler camp next year:

    Traded
    Eberle
    Yakupov
    Schultz

    Not re-signed
    Nilsson
    Klinkhammer
    Gazdic
    Gryba (might be traded at deadline)

    Bought-out
    Ference

    That’s 8 players off of a roster that currently stands at 25 with LTIR, so that’s 32% of the roster.

    *might be gone, but I don’t see it happening*
    Fayne
    Korpikoski

  125. OF17 says:

    If we get Hamonic, one thing we have to do is find a RH guy for the PP, probably on bottom pairing. Call Buffalo and see what they want for Franson, that sort of thing. Not having a RHS that’s a passing and one-timer threat is a serious drain on our forward talent. Opposing forwards can cheat for the cross-ice pass when Schultz is on the ice, for instance, since they know he almost never one-times it and takes a while to get off a wrister at the best of times. Takes away both good options off the RW half wall, and with Draisaitl, McDavid, and Nuge all our primary playmakers and all LHS, that’s a problem.

  126. Caramel Obvious says:

    Last point on Hamonic and Vatanen. In both cases you are dealing with a level of uncertainty. One way to deal with uncertainty is to parse it, to try and replace uncertainty with less uncertainty. Our ability to do this is, well, uncertain.

    Another heuristic is to begin with what you know with reasonable certainty.

    I am certain that both are NHL quality players.
    I am certain that Vatanen is a better offensive player.

    Both of those have been covered already. But let’s add this one:

    I am pretty certain that Vatanen will require less to acquire in trade. So even if you are not certain that Vatanen is better than Hamonic he doesn’t need to be so long as he costs less.

    Then there is the larger picture.

    I am pretty certain the Oilers need to acquire two D in this mold to be a playoff team. If Vatanen costs less that leaves more to acquire the second guy.

    The other side of this is that if the second guy is Shattenkirk there is going to be less powerplay time to go around thus diminishing some of Vatanen’s value. In which case Hamonic is a reasonable option.

    Maybe the truth is that the Oilers need both not one or the other, and that the guy they really need is Shattenkirk.

  127. G Money says:

    leadfarmer,

    Yes. As I said, I would take both, in a heartbeat.

    But if you ask me to pick one, it’s Hamonic, and it’s not close. One makes the entire defense better, top to bottom. The other makes the PP better.

    AsiaOil,

    This is the key. Hamonic might actually be available, and because of his trade request, might even get him by paying only a single limb instead of multiple limbs. We’re NOT getting a player of this calibre anywhere else. We’re not.

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!,

    FUCK YOU I AM! YOU’RE TOUCHY! SON OF A BITCH!

    vinotintazo,

    I think this is correct. Hamonic is showing us Klefbom’s ceiling.

    Caramel Obvious,

    Where on earth did you read Shattenkirk at ANY time in the above conversation?

    My entry point was when someone, you I think, indicated they thought Vatanen (a 24 yo #3D who would slot in behind Sekera and Klefbom here too, likely play 15:00 EV, no PK but would help the PP) was a better get than Hamonic (a 25 yo #1D who would instantly slot in at #1 here too, play 23:00 a night, and make the entire defense, hell the entire team better, in the process).

    Shattenkirk would do the same thing, though he’d make the team better offensively than Hamonic but not as good defensively.

    kinger_OIL,

    Comments about how good or bad the offense might be are meaningless when you have 1 or 2 true NHL quality defensemen playing every night. You can’t score when you can’t retrieve the puck and move it out of your zone.

    Add one or two legit Top 4 D, and not only does the D improve, so does the O.

    Even Hamonic, who isn’t much of a point getter, but is excellent at puck retrieval and getting the puck moving the right way. Put him back there, push every other D down one spot, and both O and D become instantly better.

  128. vinotintazo says:

    Oilspill: Why would they play Gryba and not resign him

    The only reson Gryba keeps playing is because Kelfbom, and Davidson are injured.

    I think we can all agree Fayne is a better player, but not by much.

    the fact that Fayne has been playing OK with Sekera makes him a better player IMO.

    Gryba is a #6/7

    When Healthy, I think the 6 Dman playing should be:

    Klefbom
    Sekera
    Davidson
    Fayne
    Schultz
    Nurse

    I hope they can send out some Dman before the trade deadline, so Reinhart can play.

    I hope they trade Schultz, Fayne, and Gryba.

  129. G Money says:

    Dangit LT, just because I responded to six people in a single post doesn’t mean I deserve to be moderated!!

    Or do I?

    *searches soul*

    It’s a fair cop. I admit to using PEDs (Post Enhancing Datapoints).

  130. OF17 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Problem is I think it takes Eberle in both cases. The Islanders would prefer a D back for Hamonic, but if not that, they need someone who can riff with Tavares, which is where Eberle comes in.

    The Ducks need to improve their offense, but Vatanen is one of the only players putting up offense on that team, so it would need to be Eberle to be an improvement.

    I agree in that I’m leaning towards Shattenkirk at the moment. Seems to be the best of both worlds, or if not the best, at least the best mix of offense and defense to improve the team. Still far from decided on that question though.

  131. Quinlan says:

    OF17,

    I mean… I guess the Ducks can ask for Eberle.

    And then Peter Chiarelli can laugh. A lot. And then hang up.

    The whole divisional premium thing goes both ways. Vatanen, yes. For Eberle, no. It’s just poor asset management.

    Eberle is much too valuable to go straight up for Vatanen.

  132. Quinlan says:

    You know… we’re quick to trade this guy, and I still think he’s the one that has to go, but let’s not devalue him just because.

    Gaze upon this and remember what level of player we’re talking about.

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/eberljo01.html

    If all Jordan Eberle gets you is Sami Vatanen, you’re better off keeping Eberle.

  133. OF17 says:

    Quinlan:
    OF17,

    I mean… I guess the Ducks can ask for Eberle.

    And then Peter Chiarelli can laugh. A lot. And then hang up.

    The whole divisional premium thing goes both ways. Vatanen, yes. For Eberle, no. It’s just poor asset management.

    Eberle is much too valuable to go straight up for Vatanen.

    I’m not saying it’s a deal I’d do, just that there needs to be mutual benefit for a deal to go through, and I’m not sure the Ducks benefit if anything less than Eberle comes back as the main piece.

  134. Lowetide says:

    G Money:
    Dangit LT, just because I responded to six people in a single post doesn’t mean I deserve to be moderated!!

    Or do I?

    *searches soul*

    It’s a fair cop.I admit to using PEDs (Post Enhancing Datapoints).

    Your post (the moderated one) is exactly the type that gets caught up. Which is too bad, because it (like almost everything posted here) has real value. Anyway, apologies but those mult-link captures really do keep some weird stuff from hitting.

  135. leadfarmer says:

    G Money,

    Hamonic is really good and is someone that we definitely could use, but if you get him you have not addressed the other serious problem this d-corpse has. There is not a single offensive or pp qb on this entire team

  136. Lowetide says:

    leadfarmer:
    G Money,

    Hamonic is really good and is someone that we definitely could use, but if you get him you have not addressed the other serious problem this d-corpse has.There is not a single offensive or pp qb on this entire team

    I think, at some point, we have to assume the PP will improve (again) when McDavid returns, and that some of the current parts may aid at that time. Edmonton does have some shooters—Brandon Davidson, Oscar Klefbom—and it may benefit them to add Hamonic and shop for the PP point man later in summer. Settling the defense down 5×5 is an enormous, and for me more important, task.

    The power play needs a bomb from the point, but McDavid should help (as he did when healthy).

  137. AsiaOil says:

    Well I may have overstated our offense but we are only a few games away from solid offensive teams like LA – and that’s with a defense that can’t pass and all the injuries. Lack of offensive talent is not what is killing this team – it’s terrible play in the defensive zone and an inability of the defense to transition the puck to our forwards at speed. We are not getting any points from our defense because they can’t pass the damn puck and gain assists – and secondarily – they can’t shoot worth crap (Shultz).

    If you want elite offense, size and defense all in the same player – you are talking about a handful of guys – none of whom are available. So for me the priority is a guy who has proven to be able to eat big minutes on the top pair, bust cycles, and effectively transition the puck to our forwards. We need a RHD to pair with Klef and be our shut down pair who can also play with talent. Then we can move Sekera to the 2nd pair with one of the young guys like GR, Nurse or Davidson. That 2nd pair gets better zone starts, easier opposition and should put up some points. Sekera put up 44 points in CAR with this kind of usage which so there is precedent.

    PP points are secondary for me right now as we will get more wins right now from a better defense and transition game than off the power play. A smaller offense first guy like Vatenen on the 2nd pair would be nice – but this guy is a 2nd priority. Shattenkirk is not a shut down guy either and would be miscast in that role on the top pair. He needs to be sheltered “a bit” with better zone starts and always has been in STL. So for me Hamonic is the guy. He would vastly improve the first pair in the defensive zone and be able to transition the puck to our forwards at speed. That will produce a huge improvement in goal differential – probably the bigger than any of the guys we are talking about.

    We need a bazooka on the PP – I accept that – but this can come via a forward playing defense or a specialist on the 3rd pair. I actually hate paying one dimensional defensemen like Shultz huge dollars for PP production that they more than give away in their own end. But we do need a big shot from the point – it’s just a secondary priority for me – and there are a bunch of different ways to get it.

  138. Braden88 says:

    G Money,

    theres a line between passionate and obsessed and i think you’re flirting with it.

    its just hockey bro, a recreational sport for competetive and entertainment purposes. No one is telling you how to raise your children or live your life.

    there is constructive criticism and aggressive criicism. choose the former not the ladder please, for all our sakes.

  139. AsiaOil says:

    3 way deal with extras as needed – NY boy Stattenkirk to NYI, prairie boy Hamonic to EDM, Eberle’s offense to STL – everybody’s happy and the cap can be balanced through the extras. Chia gets a bonus if the extras are not too dear.

  140. Braden88 says:

    Another thought I often have on this blog (targetted at no one specific)

    In for the format of blogging and commenting, there is no right or wrong, there is only subtle or loud.

    Having an opinion stronger than someone else does not make you right. Someone disproving your comment does not make you wrong. There is no right or wrong, it doesn’t exist here. That is to say, within the theme of hockey.

    Once again, this blog is for fun everyone. Lets be careful to not enhance our own fun at the cost of someone elses. Bullying takes many forms and is never acceptable in any format.

  141. Woogie63 says:

    If Buff signs with the Jets … Who is Snows best/only trading partner?

    If we can get Harmonic …. Yandle only costs money and lead the PP

  142. theres oil in virginia says:

    Does anyone know how old Tarvis Harmonic is? I mean, does anyone know with absolute certainty how old he is?

  143. Snowman says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Is this a joke that I missed?

  144. Caramel Obvious says:

    G Money,

    There is much magical thinking in your post. To wit, your conclusion that Hamonic is going to make both the O and the D better while Vatanen is only going to make the powerplay better. The only way you can draw that conclusion is to skew all the data towards a conclusion you came to in advance.

    It also assumes a false distinction between offense and defense and then only applies it to Vatanen.

    In any case, the way the NHL doles out second assists, if Hamonic made such a direct improvement to the offense of the Islanders he’d have more than 10 points.

    I’m not sure what your point about Vatanen playing 15 minutes a night at even strength is. First, it isn’t true. Second, it isn’t relevant. Using TOI as a measure of quality is tautological.

  145. Caramel Obvious says:

    AsiaOil,

    Your argument depends upon a heuristic that presumes too much. Things like “shut down guy” or “sheltered role.” There is no such thing. They don’t exist. They are reifications. Thinkings with reifications leads to mistakes. Always.

  146. Snowman says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Can you explain how sheltered role doesn’t exist?

    I’m not sure doesn’t exist means what you think it means.

  147. Mattaklap says:

    Dear Mr. Chiarelli;

    Please make a trade soon for something, whether it be a defenceman, a forward, or a ham sandwich, so that we can argue about why we hate it and we hate you and we hate Bookje. Please save us.

    Thanks and go to hell,
    Slightly Obsessed Oiler Fan People

  148. Frank the dog says:

    Quinlan: How you conclude that Eberle for Vatanen is reasonable is beyond me. What analysis are you using?

    It escapes me that we would want any 5’10” defender on this team.

  149. theres oil in virginia says:

    Snowman:
    theres oil in virginia,

    Is this a joke that I missed?

    Yes, I think you missed it. Just being snarky to both G and Caramel to try to lighten the mood.

  150. Snowman says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    I was going to post his birthday but then I thought that I’m probably an idiot that missed something.

    Glad to see I was right… unfortunately that confirms that I am in fact an idiot that misses things…

  151. theres oil in virginia says:

    Snowman,

    Ha! Don’t worry, most of my jokes are only funny to me.

  152. russ99 says:

    AsiaOil:
    Well I may have overstated our offense but we are only a few games away from solid offensive teams like LA – and that’s with a defense that can’t pass and all the injuries. Lack of offensive talent is not what is killing this team – it’s terrible play in the defensive zone and an inability of the defense to transition the puck to our forwards at speed. We are not getting any points from our defense because they can’t pass the damn puck and gain assists – and secondarily – they can’t shoot worth crap (Shultz).

    If you want elite offense, size and defense all in the same player – you are talking about a handful of guys – none of whom are available. So for me the priority is a guy who has proven to be able to eat big minutes on the top pair, bust cycles, and effectively transition the puck to our forwards. We need a RHD to pair with Klef and be our shut down pair who can also play with talent. Then we can move Sekera to the 2nd pair with one of the young guys like GR, Nurse or Davidson. That 2nd pair gets better zone starts, easier opposition and should put up some points. Sekera put up 44 points in CAR with this kind of usage which so there is precedent.

    PP points are secondary for me right now as we will get more wins right now from a better defense and transition game than off the power play. A smaller offense first guy like Vatenen on the 2nd pair would be nice – but this guy is a 2nd priority. Shattenkirk is not a shut down guy either and would be miscast in that role on the top pair. He needs to be sheltered “a bit” with better zone starts and always has been in STL. So for me Hamonic is the guy. He would vastly improve the first pair in the defensive zone and be able to transition the puck to our forwards at speed. That will produce a huge improvement in goal differential – probably the bigger than any of the guys we are talking about.

    We need a bazooka on the PP – I accept that – but this can come via a forward playing defense or a specialist on the 3rd pair. I actually hate paying one dimensional defensemen like Shultz huge dollars for PP production that they more than give away in their own end. But we do need a big shot from the point – it’s just a secondary priority for me – and there are a bunch of different ways to get it.

    There’s only one thing that’s unrealistic about this:

    All 12 of our forwards as a unit are well below average at defensive zone play, and that’s after a half-year with McLellan.

    We’re not going to fix our subpar defense with two better defensemen alone, we either need to get the players we have now (both forwards and defensemen) to play a two-way game or acquire better two-way players.

    This the difference between us and LA and Chicago, and even San Jose and Phoenix

  153. vinotintazo says:

    russ99,

    we could use a guy like Tobias Rieder…

  154. fifthcartel says:

    Stauffer said some interesting things yesterday on Oilers Now.

    “Justin Schultz simply cannot anchor a top 4 defense pairing right now, that’s all there is to it” and then said that his situation will be one to watch.

    He thinks a right-shot defensemen will be moved over the next month as Reinhart will get called up relly quickly after the All-Star break.

    He said to keep an eye on Buffalo and Columbus, and it’s a “slam dunk” that CBJ want to move salary, which scares me considering Tyutin, Johnson, and Hartnell. I have a feeling he means Hartnell since he said Pouliot would be best suited as your 3LW. I think that’s a hefty contract to take on.

    Also said they might revisit Purcell in the offseason because they know he can play with good players.

  155. LoDog says:

    I like hamonic and he would certainly improve this team.

    If you can get him and sigh byfuglen (sp?) Or add shat while somehow not trading away all our forward s Well hot dam.

    But if you if you can only afford to add 1 dman that player needs to be the LT complete player and bring offense.

  156. John Chambers says:

    Woogie63:
    If Buff signs with the Jets … Who is Snows best/only trading partner?

    If we can get Harmonic …. Yandle only costs money and lead the PP

    You make an interesting point. Let’s assume we trade for Hamonic and can ice a top-4 of:
    Klefbom – Hamonic
    Nurse – Sekara

    This isn’t a bad quartet to play shut-down defense and break even against good teams at 5×5 play. What it lacks, however, is a scoring threat.

    Enter Yandle.

    Yandle can handle the primary pp quarterbacking duties, as well as 3rd pair minutes with Reinhart, Davidson, or Gryba. It also allows our top-4 d to rest during the powerplay, allowing them to sustainably play 21 minutes a night.

    Assuming we can trade Schultz’ and Fayne’s contracts, and are able to reduce salary by moving Eberle for Hamonic, offering Yandle $5M x 3 doesn’t seem all that unreasonable for a guy whose primary purpose is to put up points on the powerplay.

  157. LoDog says:

    AsiaOil:
    3 way deal with extras as needed – NY boy Stattenkirk to NYI, prairie boy Hamonic to EDM, Eberle’s offense to STL – everybody’s happy and the cap can be balanced through the extras. Chia gets a bonus if the extras are not too dear.

    Id much rather just keep shatenkirk. That is what the oilers need.

  158. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    I’m liking the discussion here today, this is fun!

    I’ve been having some fun bugging friends of other Canadian market teams lately and would like to share my thoughts on them all.

    Toronto/Vancouver: oddly the nicest of the bunch right now. TO fans have largely bought into the Shanaplan and they are one surprise playoff appearance outside of a decade and a half away from the postseason so they understand an Oil fans pain. Canuck fans (at least out east) realize how craptacular their team is and are largely aware they are screwed when the Sedin’s retire (though they are European so who knows how long that will take).

    Habs/Flames fans: in different stages of denial. Both are convinced their team is at least 150% better than their current records show except none can give me a definite reason why that should be the case. They then usually proceed to then rundown every oiler player usually starting with Hall which is outright odd given the season he is having. These are the people I cannot wait to smile at when things turn north here.

    Jets: they are sad and I feel for them. I like the vast majority of Jets players, love the GM and how he dealt with Kane but they just can’t shoot straight this year. Gordspeed Jets Gordspeed!

    In short the one team I have disliked the most ironically has some of the nicer fans at moment which kind of surprised me. Flames fans are still convinced that advanced stats mean zilch and Hartley is a perennial Jack Adams finalist and Habs fans well I sympathize with losing your best player for a long stretch but leave Hall alone please. The guy is a magician.

    Oh and ITS ONE WEEK UNTIL CONNOR COMES BACK!!!!!!

    Yesssssss!?!?!?!?!?!!!!

  159. frjohnk says:

    Just for fun I ran 5 on 5 points from team D ranked highest to lowest.

    DAL 75
    NYR 67
    BOS 66
    CGY 66
    S.J 64
    WSH64
    NSH 60
    CHI 57
    STL 57
    MTL 56
    COL 54
    T.B 54
    ARI 53
    WPG52
    CBJ 51
    OTT 51
    DET 50
    NYI 50
    CAR 49
    MIN 49
    BUF 48
    L.A 45
    TOR 45
    VAN 45
    PIT 44
    FLA 43
    PHI 41
    ANA 36
    EDM34
    N.J 34

    Anybody surprised to see EDM at the bottom?

    Then I ran 5 on 5, 4 on 4, and 3 on 3 goals from D.

    ARI 20
    WPG19
    S.J 18
    NSH 17
    OTT 17
    L.A 16
    BOS 15
    CGY 15
    DET 15
    NYR 15
    PHI 15
    T.B 15
    COL 14
    PIT 14
    WSH14
    DAL 13
    EDM13
    FLA 13
    MIN 13
    NYI 13
    CAR 12
    BUF 11
    CHI 11
    N.J 11
    STL 11
    CBJ 10
    TOR 10
    ANA 9
    MTL 7
    VAN 6

    EDM looks better here.

    I think what the Oilers should be looking for in a D man, is not necessarily the D men who put up the most points. With our highly skilled forwards what we need are
    -D men who can put a stop to a tire fire.
    -D men who can stop the cycle and angle opposing players out of the play.
    -D men who under trouble can either skate the puck out of trouble or make a safe play.
    -D men who can consistently make a tape to tape pass.

    We don’t need high event D men in our own zone.

    Personally, I’m not crazy about Vatanen, he would be fine but he does not check off all those boxes. One guy that does is Hamonic. He is the goods.

    Something I have been thinking I wonder if Chia goes whale hunting. We know he is not scared to trade a significant asset. Would he trade 1 or 2 significant assets to get an elite number 1 D man?

    LT, for your next hard target: Justin Faulk.

  160. Магия 10 says:

    Braden88: theres a line between passionate and obsessed and i think you’re flirting with it.

    Braden88:
    there is constructive criticism and aggressive criicism. choose the former not the ladder please, for all our sakes.

    Hey G. I’m not going to read the thread backwards to find where you crossed the line, but climb on down right away. It’s so lonely on a ladder and it’s hard to get a good meal up there.

  161. who says:

    frjohnk,
    Like your thinking. My preference would be Hamonic then Shattenkirk, not crazy about Vatanen. Just think Hamonic is the most complete player and would log the most minutes for Oilers. I think either one is going to cost you Eberle, and Hamonic, with that contract and term, is going to be Eberle plus. I have no problem with that and I like Eberle. He is a 25-30 goal scorer, and that has value, but he doesn’t do enough other things to justify 6 mil per year. Besides it looks like we can replace him with a high profile winger in this years draft.

  162. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Snowman,

    I’m certain Caramel will go to his grave (and he’ll be the only one) that insists that there is no such thing as “sheltered” vs “unsheltered”, or 1 vs 2 vs 3 vs 4 lines, or top pairing vs second pairing vs third pairing D.

    They’re all the same by his view of the world.

    Not true for anyone that watches hockey OR actually looks at the numbers – let alone both. But he’ll swear it to be true, and treat with his usual disdain any viewpoint that disagrees.

    His basis for this claim is because QoC metrics tend to show a relatively narrow variation across those bands. Never mind that the two QoC metrics currently in use (TOI or Corsi/Rel) are deeply flawed as a measure of competition.

    Make sure you interpret any player assessment from Caramel in that (also deeply flawed) context …

  163. godot10 says:

    Centre of attention:
    I could see the Oilers maybe claiming Clendening

    Eric Gustafsson took his job in Chicago. Hey MacT…who is this Eric Gustafsson guy? And how did he end up in Chicago?

  164. raventalon40 says:

    Frank the dog: It escapes me that we would want any 5’10” defender on this team.

    Have you seen him play? He’s pretty damn good. He doesn’t shoot it like Lubomir Visnovsky, but he does the rest.

    Here’s my wishlist for this trade deadline or summer 2016:

    Eberle+ in a 3-way trade, Shattenkirk+ to Islanders, Hamonic+ to Oilers, Eberle+ to Blues
    Yakupov for Vatanen.
    Draft Tkachuk.
    Walk Schultz or trade him for a low pick.
    Sign Byfuglien.
    Buy out Ference.

    Blue Line:
    Sekera-Byfuglien
    Klefbom-Hamonic
    Nurse-Vatanen
    Davidson

  165. OF17 says:

    AsiaOil,

    The question becomes, is Shattenkirk sheltered because he needs it or because why wouldn’t you with Pietrangelo on the team? Seeing the raw ability that Shattenkirk displays, I lean more towards the latter.

  166. OF17 says:

    raventalon40,

    And we run with Hall-Pouliot as our top 2 wingers? Assuming it even fits under the cap. I want a good D as much as the next guy, but gutting the forwards to do so isn’t high on my list of priorities.

  167. Water Fire says:

    Yandle has 8 PP points, 1 goal. PP scoring on the Rangers is spread out amongD, a reflection of a more experienced team playing better than the. oilers at this.

    Schultz has 5 on a bad PP. The idea everyone has in their minds eye of these things including me is misleading. Just as there are few elite D (who do the things on PP we wish for) there are few guys much better than the Oilers regulars, and most are playing lesser comp than Scultz. Put them on the Oilers and watch the fireworks.

    Most likely the answer lies within and drafting Chychrun who was better than Ekblad same age and best 2,way since Doughty. He’s the sleeper, sell Eberle to Winnipeg for their first and draft a Finn and sign Lucic or Eriksson.

  168. G Money says:

    raventalon40,

    Ha ha, that would be a ludicrously loaded blue line!

    I posted a few weeks ago that my daydream for the blue line consisted of adding Hamonic and Shattenkirk (and shipping out every defender not named Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson and Reinhart – which is what made it a daydream).

    You make my dream look like the work of a hard ass realist!

  169. Water Fire says:

    frjohnk:
    Just for fun I ran 5 on 5 points from team D ranked highest to lowest.

    DAL75
    NYR67
    BOS66
    CGY66
    S.J64
    WSH64
    NSH60
    CHI57
    STL57
    MTL56
    COL54
    T.B54
    ARI53
    WPG52
    CBJ51
    OTT51
    DET50
    NYI50
    CAR49
    MIN49
    BUF48
    L.A45
    TOR45
    VAN45
    PIT44
    FLA43
    PHI41
    ANA36
    EDM34
    N.J34

    Anybody surprised to see EDM at the bottom?

    Then I ran 5 on 5, 4 on 4, and 3 on 3 goals from D.

    ARI20
    WPG19
    S.J18
    NSH17
    OTT17
    L.A16
    BOS15
    CGY15
    DET15
    NYR15
    PHI15
    T.B15
    COL14
    PIT14
    WSH14
    DAL13
    EDM13
    FLA13
    MIN13
    NYI13
    CAR12
    BUF11
    CHI11
    N.J11
    STL11
    CBJ10
    TOR10
    ANA9
    MTL7
    VAN6

    EDM looks better here.

    I think what the Oilers should be looking for in a D man, is not necessarily the D men who put up the most points.With our highly skilled forwards what we need are
    -D men who can put a stop to a tire fire.
    -D men who can stop the cycle and angle opposing players out of the play.
    -D men who under trouble can either skate the puck out of trouble or make a safe play.
    -D men who can consistently make a tape to tape pass.

    We don’t need high event D men in our own zone.

    Personally, I’m not crazy about Vatanen, he would be fine but he does not check off all those boxes.One guy that does is Hamonic.He is the goods.

    Something I have been thinking I wonder if Chia goes whale hunting.We know he is not scared to trade a significant asset.Would he trade 1 or 2 significant assets to get an elite number 1 D man?

    LT, for your next hard target: Justin Faulk.

    Except he’s a tire fire.

  170. Zelepukin says:

    AsiaOil: If you want elite offense, size and defense all in the same player – you are talking about a handful of guys – none of whom are available. So for me the priority is a guy who has proven to be able to eat big minutes on the top pair, bust cycles, and effectively transition the puck to our forwards. We need a RHD to pair with Klef and be our shut down pair who can also play with talent. Then we can move Sekera to the 2nd pair with one of the young guys like GR, Nurse or Davidson. That 2nd pair gets better zone starts, easier opposition and should put up some points. Sekera put up 44 points in CAR with this kind of usage which so there is precedent.

    This. Out of the top 20-30 scoring D in the league there is only like 4 or 5 guys that aren’t playing for the team they drafted and even then, you’re talking about Burns, Buf who played forward and guys that were traded a good 7+ years into the league like Chara, Yandle, Suter etc.

  171. G Money says:

    Braden88: there is constructive criticism and aggressive criicism. choose the former not the ladder please, for all our sakes.

    Braden88: Having an opinion stronger than someone else does not make you right. Someone disproving your comment does not make you wrong. There is no right or wrong, it doesn’t exist here. That is to say, within the theme of hockey.

    So it hurts your delicate sensibilities to even read the often detailed, fact based, numerically supported, argued with attention to nuance and – oh no! typically concerned with actual right and wrong – arguments made here?

    Too bad. That’s what you get here. It’s what makes it a special and unusual place.

    That’s not bullying. There is no-one here not of their own volition. There is no-one here at risk as a result of what is argued here. And arguments, and posters, get assessed on the merits of the contents of the posts, not because their avatars are bigger.

    If that’s too much for you, if that’s just too rough and tumble or uncivilized by your standards, you might want to consider that this may not be the place for you.

    Seriously. I’m not saying that to be mean. “Why can’t we just all get along” would make for the most insipid and boring site possible. Arguments are the lifeblood of a comments section. The intelligence and passion of the posters here is what makes it special.

  172. godot10 says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    To listen to Gmoney talk you’d think he thinks that Hamonic is better than Shattenkirk.Which, contract aside, is plain crazy.

    Hamonic is better than Shattenkirk, and it isn’t close, IMHO, particularly on a value-for-money basis going forward. Pieterangelo takes the hardest minutes in St. Louis. Shattenkirk get all the power play time, and gets freer air at even strength.

    One ends up overpaying for boxcars with players like Shattenkirk.

  173. G Money says:

    theres oil in virginia: Yes, I think you missed it. Just being snarky to both G and Caramel to try to lighten the mood.

    I quite liked it! I tried to work Schrodinger into a response and failed.

  174. Pouzar says:

    Going to the Coyotes game tonight. I will pitch Ebs for OEL for ya’ll.

    F^ck the Jets. F^ck them.

  175. G Money says:

    BTW – and I hope Caramel doesn’t get too mad at me for this – but he and I (like a number of folks here) have corresponded offline about various hockey and stats related topics.

    He – like so many of the others I’ve conversed with including (not a complete list, so apologies if I left you out!) WG, Rex, Wheat, Padre, Swedish, Ryan, delooper – is highly intelligent, knowledgeable, accomplished, and is far less snarky offline than online.

    In fact, his persona here is deliberately provocative.

    So I respond in kind.

    Because we can. Because it’s fun.

    (Sorry Caramel)

  176. Магия 10 says:

    Braden88: there is constructive criticism and aggressive criicism. choose the former not the ladder please, for all our sakes.

    G Money:
    So it hurts your delicate sensibilities to even read the often detailed, fact based, numerically supported, argued with attention to nuance and – oh no! typically concerned with actual right and wrong – arguments made here?

    Too bad.That’s what you get here.It’s what makes it a special and unusual place.

    That’s not bullying.There is no-one here not of their own volition.There is no-one here at risk as a result of what is argued here.And arguments, and posters, get assessed on the merits of the contents of the posts, not because their avatars are bigger.

    If that’s too much for you, if that’s just too rough and tumble or uncivilized by your standards, you might want to consider that this may not be the place for you.

    Seriously.I’m not saying that to be mean.“Why can’t we just all get along” would make for the most insipid and boring site possible.Arguments are the lifeblood of a comments section. The intelligence and passion of the posters here is what makes it special.

    I missed it. what were you doing up on that ladder, G?

  177. G Money says:

    Магия 10: I missed it. what were you doing up on that ladder, G?

    Like all other times, I haven’t got a f^cking clue!

  178. Магия 10 says:

    G Money: Like all other times, I haven’t got a f^cking clue!

    If you can see Russia from the top of your ladder, tell them that we can all be friends.

  179. godot10 says:

    leadfarmer:
    G Money,

    Hamonic is really good and is someone that we definitely could use, but if you get him you have not addressed the other serious problem this d-corpse has.There is not a single offensive or pp qb on this entire team

    Klefbom can be an offensive D. He has always been the best defensive D on every team that he has ever been on, so he has been used defensively.

    Pieterangelo is a good offensive D, but he never gets to show it because he is head-and-shoulders better than Shattenkirk defensively.

    If one has defensemen close to Klefbom defensively (say Hamonic, Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, eventually), then one can use Klefbom offensively.

    Suppose one ran Davidson/Hamonic, Klefbom/Sekera next year, Klefbom could be the D on PP#1, and Sekera on PP#2. After the PP finishes, one throws Davidson/Hamonic out on the ice.

  180. G Money says:

    Магия 10,

    I cannot refudiate this argument.

  181. Water Fire says:

    The rarest thing is defense that can add offense and not create chaos.

    It isn’t that hard to find offensive players F and D that lose the overall battle. The great ones play the whole game and are the gems. Winning teams win down the stretch if they are the best at controlling chaos and lady luck doesn’t kick them between the legs.

    For me the Oilers have enough skill that unless there is an elite player on the table, they need to add more full game capable players to stem the defensive bleeding, chaos and failure of system play that is at the heart of what kills them 5v5 and special teams.

    This year they are closer, it isn’t scoring that’s the problem, it’s the chaos rearing up and sinking them when a win is in the sites.

    They would get destroyed if they made the playoffs at this point. Add another beauty pick or two and sort the roster out and make the master plan come to fruition next year.

    Who the F says master plan? I won’t even go into why that is so tone deaf. Or more eardrumless.

  182. leadfarmer says:

    godot10: Klefbom can be an offensive D. He has always been the best defensive D on every team that he has ever been on, so he has been used defensively.

    Pieterangelo is a good offensive D, but he never gets to show it because he is head-and-shoulders better than Shattenkirk defensively.

    If one hasdefensemen close to Klefbom defensively (say Hamonic, Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, eventually), then one can use Klefbom offensively.

    Suppose one ran Davidson/Hamonic, Klefbom/Sekera next year, Klefbom could be the D on PP#1, and Sekera on PP#2.After the PP finishes, one throws Davidson/Hamonic out on the ice.

    What are you talking about? Pietrangelo has scored more than 10 goals twice and has two 50 point seasons. His last two seasons he has 46 and 51 points. Klefbom is on pace for his second 20 point season. These guys are on different levels. Neither Klefbom nor Sekera are good pp qb options. Probably fine on the second pp unit.

  183. theres oil in virginia says:

    G Money: I quite liked it!I tried to work Schrodinger into a response and failed.

    Freakin paradoxes!

  184. Магия 10 says:

    G Money: I quite liked it!I tried to work Schrodinger into a response and failed collapsed.

    ftfy

  185. raventalon40 says:

    G Money:
    raventalon40,

    Ha ha, that would be a ludicrously loaded blue line!

    I posted a few weeks ago that my daydream for the blue line consisted of adding Hamonic and Shattenkirk (and shipping out every defender not named Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson and Reinhart – which is what made it a daydream).

    You make my dream look like the work of a hard ass realist!

    Decision time would come when ELC’s run out, but until then, the dream lives on!

    Plus, money coming off the books.

  186. Woodguy says:

    Oilspill:
    Why would they play Gryba and not resign him?My logic says if he’s not doing anything and sitting in the presser he’s not being resigned. Traded maybe. Chia would be stupid to not resign him if not traded after giving up some assets.

    He’s not signed past this year, which is why he wasn’t in the “trade” column.

    I should have added that I think they trade him at the deadline.

  187. Braden88 says:

    G Money,

    i Stand by what i said. the fact that your are insulted by my thoughts proves my point. I find it hilarious that i can make an incredibly generalized and vague statement about the overarching nature of arguments and criticism and you response as if i insulted an incredibly specific area of statistics that you support your arguments with. For the record, to be more specific, i would classify the data you use to support your arguments as incredibly intelligent and constructive. the manner in which you present your arguments can sometimes come off overly aggressive. I concede that i could be entirely wrong about this, but i personally feel i am not.

    You come to this website for different reasons than me, and thats fine.

    G Money:
    That’s not bullying.There is no-one here not of their own volition.

    If that’s too much for you, if that’s just too rough and tumble or uncivilized by your standards, you might want to consider that this may not be the place for you.

    I am not afraid to be embarrassed on a website and it is bullying. The fact that you feel the need to insult and embarrass someone makes it without question bullying. You assume i am talking about intelligent arguments, i am not. I am talking about presenting yourself as passionate vs obsessed. one is healthy the other is not

    I would be curious to see the statistics of readers to commentators on this blog. I would argue that a large amount of readers intentionally avoid commenting due to the forced intensity to the point of religious connotations.

    if thats the desires flavour, thats cool. i’l let Lowetide decide. but i don’t think he would agree with making people leave, like you just suggested i do.

  188. Caramel Obvious says:

    godot10: Klefbom can be an offensive D. He has always been the best defensive D on every team that he has ever been on, so he has been used defensively.

    Pieterangelo is a good offensive D, but he never gets to show it because he is head-and-shoulders better than Shattenkirk defensively.

    If one hasdefensemen close to Klefbom defensively (say Hamonic, Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, eventually), then one can use Klefbom offensively.

    Suppose one ran Davidson/Hamonic, Klefbom/Sekera next year, Klefbom could be the D on PP#1, and Sekera on PP#2.After the PP finishes, one throws Davidson/Hamonic out on the ice.

    Good lord is this nonsense. Everybody has the same job. Score goals/prevent goals. Pieterangelo isn’t in a more defensive role than Shattenkirk, he isn’t asked to do anything that Shattenkirk isn’t

    It is pure magical thinking that someone like Klefbom would have more points if he had a different role. There is only one game. The net is the same size, the other guys are still trying. It’s absolute, complete, and utter nonsense.

  189. Lowetide says:

    Caramel Obvious: Good lord is this nonsense.Everybody has the same job.Score goals/prevent goals.Pieterangelo isn’t in a more defensive role than Shattenkirk, he isn’t asked to do anything that Shattenkirk isn’t

    It is pure magical thinking that someone like Klefbom would have more points if he had a different role.There is only one game.The net is the same size, the other guys are still trying.It’s absolute, complete, and utter nonsense.

    Well, Klefbom would have more points if he played 4:00 on the power play every night. Pretty sure.

  190. AsiaOil says:

    This all day. How many time do we watch the Oiler defense produce a breakout that consists of slapshot from behind the net around the boards to stationary winger below our blue line? Lots, regularly, insanely often. This is what is killing our points from defense which I bet are very very shy on assists. If Justin Shultz could shoot harder than I can throw a puck it would help in the goals from defense number – but even with that handicap we are not too bad. I would wager that a first pair of Klef/Hamonic would make a world of difference in the points by defenseman numbers by improving our breakout. Sekera on the 2nd pair with Nurse or Reinhart would really boost that pairs production as well.

    Hamonic would help us cut down our goals against a lot and would contribute to offense by improving the transition game. Shattenkirk would help the offense a lot but would not be much of an improvement over Sekera on the top pair (might even be worse since that’s never been a “tough minute” guy in STL). Same with Vatenen who could not be expected to play tough minutes and would be the least capable defender. I think the overall biggest impact (points prevented plus points produced) would come from Hamonic – then Shattenkirk – then Vatanen.

    As Zelepukin points out – that Hamonic is even available is unusual – and adding him would probably make an outsized difference in the wins column.

    frjohnk:

    I think what the Oilers should be looking for in a D man, is not necessarily the D men who put up the most points.With our highly skilled forwards what we need are
    -D men who can put a stop to a tire fire.
    -D men who can stop the cycle and angle opposing players out of the play.
    -D men who under trouble can either skate the puck out of trouble or make a safe play.
    -D men who can consistently make a tape to tape pass.

    We don’t need high event D men in our own zone.

  191. godot10 says:

    If one had Vlasic/Hamonic, Klefbom/Hjalmarsson as a top 4, none of them the prototypical “#1” D, one would win a hell of a lot of games.

  192. LoDog says:

    Lowetide: Well, Klefbom would have more points if he played 4:00 on the power play every night. Pretty sure.

    Come on LT power plays and penalty kills don’t actually exist.

  193. PhrankLee says:

    I am compelted to point out that Godot stated he had humble opinions above.

    Nobody challenged it. Ha.

    A pair of 2-3 D are what we need.

    It means a trade and a reclamation or a series of trades. Either way I don’t think Hamonic wil actually become available till summer. It’s easier to trade a guy like that when you aren’t in the middle of a push for the playoffs.

    Shattenkirk would also be excellent. Veteran, respected all star D.

    I don’t think either will solve our biggest problem: Darnell Nurse is 3 years too young.

  194. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide: Well, Klefbom would have more points if he played 4:00 on the power play every night. Pretty sure.

    On whose pp? On this team I don’t think extra time makes a difference.

  195. Really? says:

    I strongly believe the Oilers need to bring in 2 high calibre D men if they want to compete next year. Whether this is by trade, free agent signing or offer sheet it doesn’t matter. I further believe this has got to be accomplished without surrendering their 2016 first round draft pick.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I do not think the Oilers are an offensive power. I believe that one more piece (Laine/Tkachuk/Puljujarvi) to fill out their top 6 forwards.

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