TELL THE FOLKS BACK HOME THIS IS THE PROMISED LAND CALLING

The Edmonton Oilers said goodbye to Rexall in fine style last night, winning 6-2 on a strange night for everyone.

LIFE IN A NORTHERN TOWN, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • Oilers in October 2014: 4-5-1
  • Oilers in October 2015: 4-8-0
  • Oilers in November 2014: 2-9-3
  • Oilers in November 2015: 4-7-2
  • Oilers in December 2014: 2-8-4
  • Oilers in December 2015: 7-6-1
  • Oilers in January 2015: 5-7-1
  • Oilers in January 2016: 4-5-2
  • Oilers in February 2015: 5-6-1
  • Oilers in February 2016: 4-8-2
  • Oilers in March 2015: 5-6-3
  • Oilers in March 2016: 7-8-0
  • Oilers in April 2015: 1-3-1
  • Oilers in April 2016: 1-1-0
  • Oilers after 81 in 2014-15: 24-44-13, 61 points (-82 GD)
  • Oilers after 81 in 2015-16: 31-43-7, 69 points (-41 GD)

Edmonton has a chance to hit 70 points for the first time since 2011-12 and Tom Renney. Their goal differential has been halved and they could finish nine points clear of last season.

DEFENSE, LAST NIGHT

oilers blue nov 30

  • Griffin Reinhart had a very good night, had a couple of shot attempts a blocked shot and a takeaway. Looked very good with Sekera. If you don’t like Fayne, you are going to hate mature Reinhart.
  • Jordan Oesterle played a lot (27:57) and was plus three. One negative? He got walked by Horvat on his goal (lordy). I think we have him surrounded, as an AHL guy who can come up and give this team some badly needed depth next year.
  • Andrej Sekera seemed to be getting good looks, but his shot had no bite. I guess that means the shin pads jokes can take a break and we can talk muffins for the evening. I like Sekera a lot, he had one high-danger scoring chance and a very other opportunities. He has skated miles against the best of the west—wildly underrated by Oilers fans.
  • Adam Pardy had an assist, a shot on goal, some wonky passes but he also had three blocks and two takeaways. I like him, no idea where they would put him if signed for next year.
  • Mark Fayne had an assist, a high-danger scoring chances, was +2 and had five shots on goal. Lost the possession battle against the Sedins, that’s no news, but he hung in and delivered defensively—plus the offense. Another good game.
  • Darnell Nurse had a block but it caught him near the throat that ended his evening early.
  • Cam Talbot was solid, at times very good. The game ended with a win and that is a very good result for any goalie.

INDIVIDUAL HIGH-DANGER SCORING CHANCES

  • Three: Connor McDavid
  • Two: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  • One: Taylor Hall, Patrick Maroon, Jordan Eberle, Andrej Sekera, Iiro Pakarinen, Mark Fayne

CENTERS, LAST NIGHT

oil c nov 30

WINGERS, LAST NIGHT

oilers f nov 30

  • Maroon—McDavid—Eberle were very productive overall, winning the possession battle at even-strength and posting 3-4-7 boxcars. Not all from the line, or at even strength, but these three men were involved (15 SOG—seven from Eberle). McDavid is fire. Five HD-SC.
  • Korpikoski—RNH—Yakupov were also productive in possession, although only Nail posted a crooked number (goal). Nuge was solid in the FO circle and the line posted two HD-SC.
  • Hall—Draisaitl—Pakarinen did not win the possession battle, but all three had at least a point and the total boxcar was impressive (2-3-5). Leon is a shadow of his former self, Hall’s goal was music. Two HD-SC.
  • Hendricks—Letestu—Kassian were low-event offensively and should have been more effective based on opposition. The line played more than they should have based on McLellan’s established deployment, wonder if the coach wanted a veteran crash and bang trio to announce their presence with authority.

slepy williams

Photo by Mark Williams

Anton Slepyshev is turning it on late in the year, popped two goals in an OT loss to San Diego last night. He is 5-6-11 in his last 14 games—far better than his overall production. He did have an injury earlier in the winter, may have impacted his performance. These final games have been encouraging.

A good draft pick and a worthy signing. Jones’ scouting reports really didn’t give us much of a hint about what we were looking at, but the strong WHL season for Jones is a strong tell. ISS is the only scouting report I saw that implied this season:

  • ISS: Jones has shown promising development – he is coming into his own and has added more facets to his game over the last two seasons. Great work on the puck and advancing very well whether springing his forwards in the neutral zone or using the boards to find his man, doesn’t put his teammates in vulnerable positions. Much quicker and mobile then he was last season, quick on his feet and uses his edges well when carrying the puck. Although an offensive mindset he doesn’t get ahead of himself in the defensive zone. Strong development upward curve has him as a very intriguing prospect heading into the draft. Although doesn’t possess highend upside he has shown the ability to compete.

Ghastly luck for Darnell Nurse, that can be a very dangerous injury. I have no idea what the Oilers did to earn this season of injury, but holy hell it has been horrible to watch. Hopefully they got it all out of the way this year. We are all worried about Darnell, Oilers will no doubt update today.

HOW TO IMPROVE THE OILERS, 2016 EDITION

Everyone in Canada has an opinion about the best way to improve the Oilers over the summer, and those ideas range from tweaks to blowing it all up. In March of 2015, I wrote five things Edmonton could do over the summer to improve the team. In fact, Peter Chiarelli did most of it (Cam Talbot, Connor McDavid, Andrej Sekera) although he opted for Todd McLellan over Todd Nelson. I think the coach even believes in analytics, although the devil that is Corsi has no place here.

NEW FIVE THINGS

  • Find balance. Since Chris Pronger was traded, the Oilers have been so far from balance the mind boggles. Balance can come in very specific ways (a righty center to tip in the high passes, or a hammer from the point—even a renowned penalty killer).
  • Add two defensemen who are actual NHL players. We have discussed this at length, I will only say that at this point I am fairly convinced that Hamonic and Demers are the best available (if Hamonic is) options.
  • Re-stock the system. The 2015 draft looks good early, Edmonton needs to do it again. As well, signing college and CHL and Euro free agents (recently Joey Benik, Colton Waltz, Jere Sallinen—one from each category) is vital. Some for the 50-man, more on AHL deals.
  • Keep the centers three. Why? It sets up everything, just everything. Look, Todd McLellan doesn’t use his 4line at 5×5 too much, but a third line (featuring Nuge, and say, Pouliot) will give the opposition fits on the road, and give cover to the McDavid and Leon lines at home.
  • Light a candle. I don’t believe in voodoo or witchcraft or the power of a seance, so will go with a simple lighting of a candle. The Oilers have very little depth, so staying healthy will be vital to any success we see next season.
  • My original five things for this season was longer than five and is here.

Oilers fans will hammer each other about this all spring, but I prefer to stay on the sidelines. Arguing specifics is kind of useless at this point, because we don’t know how many tumblers need to click (and the order in which they occur). Consider the following possibilities:

  • Oilers sign Jason Demers.
  • Oilers sign Milan Lucic.
  • Oilers trade Benoit Pouliot to Anaheim for Cam Fowler.
  • Oilers deal Fowler plus to NY Islanders with Travis Hamonic as the major returning piece.

Oilers LH side becomes Sekera, Klefbom, Davidson, right side is Demers, Hamonic and Mark Fayne. Everyone else in the minors to start the year. Up front, Lucic replaces Pouliot. I am not saying this is my plan, just that it is possible to make a ‘defenseman to NY Islanders deal’ and still have quality. Chiarelli may need to play chess instead of checkers.

I have written about Troy Stecher a few times, he would be a perfect fit for the Oilers. Suspect the team will have a lot of competition.

weir hockey card

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A terrific lineup today, great show unless I blow it. TSN1260, starting at 10 this morning:

  • Darcy McLeod, Because Oilers. Game last night, plus Chiarelli and McLellan report cards.
  • Scott Cullen, TSN. Oilers heading to market, who sails on?
  • Guy Flaming, Pipeline Show. Frozen Four this weekend, who wins and who should we be watching (Stecher aside)?
  • Frank Seravalli, TSN. Oilers targets, plus an unusual hockey story out of Russia that could impact the draft.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. In 90 minutes!

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

160 Responses to "TELL THE FOLKS BACK HOME THIS IS THE PROMISED LAND CALLING"

  1. supernova says:

    Spam alert

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2016/04/exploring-trade-options-carolina-hurricanes/

    I continue to look for Right D options at the oilers rig site.

    First look was Minnesota this one is Carolina

  2. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Good morning. Great writeup, LT, after a great night.

    Am I correct in interpreting your offseason to include Eberle and Fowler for Hamonic? That’s a steep price to pay and I’m not sure the Islanders can take on that kind of cap hit?

  3. Lowetide says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Good morning. Great writeup, LT, after a great night.

    Am I correct in interpreting your offseason to include Eberle and Fowler for Hamonic? That’s a steep price to pay and I’m not sure the Islanders can take on that kind of cap room?

    Nope. I was toying with that section and left Eberle in by mistake. Fowler plus for Hamonic in the example and it is just an example. We tend to think in terms of absolutes when it comes to these things.

  4. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Lowetide,

    Gotcha. I like the idea of thinking out of the box to achieve a solution.

    There has seemingly been a little back-pedaling of late on the Hamonic trade front I wonder also if Oiler fans would prefer to just keep the fast-skating, puck-moving Fowler over Hamonic.

    Probably not.

  5. flyfish1168 says:

    Is there any update on Harmonics injury. Will he be ready ? I feel he doesn’t bring enough to the table offensively to be a true top pairing . Jordan straight across I feel is to much. Jordan is a true top RW in the league. JMHO

  6. season not played says:

    supernova,

    Looking at the exact same thing with Carolina.

    They need salary, a center and a LW wouldn’t hurt.

    Also have enough blue to handle the loss on the back end.

    Hall+RNH to Carolina for Justin Faulk+Victor Rask+Carolina 1st(2016)

    Only problem is they might place more value on Faulk than Hall and might view Rask as a better player to actually win games with than RNH. Might laugh about giving up the first.

    Would have to trade on the value of a “former first OV pick”.

    Ron Francis might be to smart for this.

  7. GCW_69 says:

    “Chiarelli may need to play chess instead of checkers.”

    That’s my line! LOL.

    Yes, I think that’s the only way. I like the series of moves you propose. Very interesting.

    Mine are:

    1. Pouliot and Yak for Vatanen and a pick
    2. Eberle, Fayne plus for Hamonic and Nelson/Lee
    3. Sign Lucic
    4. Sign PA Parenteau

    That results in:

    Hall – Nuge – Draisaitl

    Lucic – McDavid – Laine/Puljujarvi

    Maroon – Nelson/Lee – Parenteau

    Hendricks – Letestu – Kassian

    Klefbom – Sekera

    Sekera – Vatanen

    Davidson -Gryba/Nurse

    Talbot

    That is, I think, a playoff team.

  8. JimmyV1965 says:

    Hey Lowetide. Great article as always!! Why would you trade Fowler for Hamonic? I thought they are similiar type players, with Fowler having more offensive upside and less injury risk. I know Fowler is a LD, but he seems like a great fit here. Am I missing something?

  9. JimRoepcke says:

    Do goals not count as an individual high danger scoring chance? Yak’s absent on the list.

  10. KJ says:

    Very long time lurker, first time poster. After reading yesterday’s post and the final game at Skyreach/Rexall, I thought I’d share my favorite memory of the old arena.

    Saturday, March 30, 2002 – I live in Calgary so I don’t get to many home Oilers games. My girlfriend and I decide to head up to Edmonton for the weekend (the girlfriend is now my wife of 10 years and mother of our four kids). While shopping at West Ed, we swing by Ticket Master to see if they have any tickets for the home game that night. By some miracle, two 8th row attacking blue line tickets were just released and are available for a pretty penny. We blow our university student budget and get the tickets.

    I head to the game with my Eric Brewer sprocket third Jersey and its Hockey Night in Canada against the hated Dallas Stars *spits* who just knocked us out of the playoffs the last four consecutive years. We were on a good run that March (8-2-2-1 heading into the game) trying to make the playoffs.

    We get to the game early and I start yelling “you suck Hatcher” in the pre-game warm up. I’m taken back by how huge he is up close. Hatcher plays for 27 minutes that night, I lose my voice from yelling at the asshole every time he steps on the ice.

    The seats are amazing – I can almost reach out and touch MacTavish’ wavy locks.

    After two periods we’re down 0-1, freakin’ Turco stopping everything even though we’re actually outplaying Dallas. 4 minutes into the third and Jason Smith (!) gets the tying goal with an apple to big Georges. Dying minutes of the game and Edmonton gets a powerplay. Less than a minute left and Comrie scores the goal ahead power play goal form Niinimaa and Smyth – pure bedlam in the arena. Hatcher was on the ice. The cherry on top was a Marchant empty net goal to make it a 3-1 Oilers final. When we get back to the hotel from the game, I stay up late re-watching the game highlights on TSN and can’t seem to wipe the shit eating grin off my face.

    The tickets were worth every penny. We missed the playoffs by 2 points that year, but finished ahead of Dallas in the standings.

    PS – Allan, this is an amazing blog and community you have fostered here. Thank you.

    PSS – My vote is Tom Waits for the next RE series.

  11. Clay says:

    Completely agree on saying “no” to Klefbom for Hamonic. It’s a zero-sum move. Makes no sense whatsoever.

    We don’t talk about offer sheets much as an option to fix the D. Every time I see Caleb Jones’s name I think to myself “right, they’re going to offer sheet Seth Jones this summer”. Use the draft picks for this year to restock the system (and get Laine, creek don’t rise), and pillage picks from 2017 instead.

    Also, RNH + Pou on the third line = UNICORNS. Therefore, can’t happen. The Hockey Gords will smite one or both of those players before there is 6 players ahead of them in the lineup.

    But imagine that third line? That’s pretty damn good.

  12. Fortinbras says:

    Did anyone notice how the hardworking Oilers of the 90’s were largely absent from the festivities last night?

    I would assume a number of those guys are employed by NHL teams, but it sure would’ve been fun to see the old guns: Guerin, Weight, Kovalenko, Moreau, … I thought Grier would be a lock!

    Enjoyed seeing Joaquin Gage, he was the goalie when I first started getting interested in the Oil. I was so confused by that name.

  13. NF Oiler says:

    There is no way I would trade klefbom for hamonic as much as I like hamonic. I don’t see hamonic getting any better whereas the upside with klefbom is huge..if there is a lefty I would trade it would sekera, although I think he has a no trade..clears 5.5 million in salary and is getting older, not sure he will be playing at the level he’s at right now at the end of his contract..obviously that would mean another top 4 d being added, but that can come through trade involving one of the 6 million dollar men

  14. fifthcartel says:

    I take the Klefbom + for Hamonic in the same light as a 2nd for Brandon Pirri talk or the 1st round pick for Cam Talbot talk. Both were moved for significantly less, I think the same goes for Hamonic.

  15. Caramel Batman says:

    Trading Klefbom for Hamonic doesn’t add any players to the team. Do that and you still need to add two more guys, plus you’ve lost whatever the + was as a chip to get those guys.

    People need to get over Nurse. He’s the guy to trade if the Islanders want D back.

    Trading from guys who shouldn’t be on the roster (and Nurse shouldn’t be on the roster) is how you get better.

  16. Melman says:

    It was great to see the players wind up Rexall in style with all the alumni watching. I was thrilled for Hall that he scored – all the flowers (rightly) get thrown at McDavid’s feet, but he doesn;t deserve to be thought of as second tier by the MSM.

    Saw Oesterle good right up until Bo said hello. Hellofa goal by Horvat. That kid’s a player

  17. Professor Q says:

    Any idea what’s causing that with Draisaitl, LT?

    Could plans for next year involve Bakersfield or is he set in Edmonton, despite the decline?

  18. Jordan says:

    I really enjoy the talk about Klefbom+ for Hamonic.

    It’s so ridiculous it’s hilarious.

    Klefbom’s salary is lower
    Klefbom’s contract is twice as long
    Klefbom’s go better offensive upside
    Klefbom’s got near equivalent defensive upside
    Both have an injury history.
    Klefbom has less track record in the NHL
    Hamonic has requested a trade

    Clearly The Oilers need to be better player plus something else to get Hamonic.

    Dreger may be the face saying the words, but logic suggests its Garth’s hand that’s moving the mouth. Either that or someone else who’s trying to establish the price much higher than is necessary.

  19. Lowetide says:

    KJ-Awesome. Thanks for sharing, itwas fun to re-live that era in your story.

  20. PunkInDrublic says:

    Yesterday (I think) someone posted something about John Shannon saying the he believed Hall and Ebs would be traded before Nuge. With that said, if you could sign Okposo and Lucic for the same cost of $12M would you do it?

    I’d be all in, and I don’t think it’s too unrealistic if you sell them on being CMcD’s wingers for the next 5+ years. Hall and Eberle could be the chips needed to get the 2 top RD this team so desperately needs.

    Chia has said that he has had discussions to set things up for summer. I bet there’s a deal between Oiler and NYI essentially in place for Ebs and Hamonic if the Isles lose Okposo this summer.

    If Chia could somehow get Pietrangelo (+?) or equivalent for Hall, then you’ve got:

    Lucic – CMcD – Okposo
    Pouliot – Nuge – Yakupov (Laine?)
    Maroon – Drai – Kassian?
    Hendy – Letestu – Pak
    Khaira

    Klefbom – Pietrangelo
    Sekera – Hamonic
    Davidson – Fayne
    Pardy?

    Talbot
    ?

    LB, Nurse, Reinhart to the minors. If we somehow get Matthews, move Maroon to RW.

    Big, heavy, mean and skilled. Just the way Chia likes it. It doesn’t appear to be entirely based on NHL 16 trade parameters either.

  21. jake70 says:

    PunkInDrublic:
    Yesterday (I think) someone posted something about John Shannon saying the he believed Hall and Ebs would be traded before Nuge.With that said, if you could sign Okposo and Lucic for the same cost of $12M would you do it?

    I’d be all in, and I don’t think it’s too unrealistic if you sell them on being CMcD’s wingers for the next 5+ years. Hall and Eberle could be the chips needed to get the 2 top RD this team so desperately needs.

    Chia has said that he has had discussions to set things up for summer.I bet there’s a deal between Oiler and NYI essentially in place for Ebs and Hamonic if the Isles lose Okposo this summer.

    If Chia could somehow get Pietrangelo (+?) or equivalent for Hall, then you’ve got:

    Lucic – CMcD – Okposo
    Pouliot – Nuge – Yakupov (Laine?)
    Maroon – Drai – Kassian?
    Hendy – Letestu – Pak
    Khaira

    Klefbom – Pietrangelo
    Sekera – Hamonic
    Davidson – Fayne
    Pardy?

    Talbot
    ?

    LB, Nurse, Reinhart to the minors.If we somehow get Matthews, move Maroon to RW.

    Big, heavy, mean and skilled.Just the way Chia likes it.It doesn’t appear to be entirely based on NHL 16 trade parameters either.

    That was me, as he was in Edmonton, he was a telephone guest on PTS with Bob McCown. The only reason I mentioned it was becasuse Shannon answered without any hesitation at all when he answered ” 1 ” (to the question of how many of the 3 would be on team in October), and then confidently said it would be Nugent-Hopkins to stay.

  22. jimmers2 says:

    KJ,

    Hatcher was detestable. An waterskiing octopus of a player who couldn’t play without cheating constantly, and incredibly effective as the league let him cheat.

    Do you recall 2008 when Lupul had recovered his form and was playing pretty well and scoring in bunches in Philadelphia? He was concussed in a huge, nasty hit by a team mate who attempted a clear headshot with a forearm shiver/elbow. That bit of bastardy was the work of none other than Darien Hatcher; his target was the Leaf’s Steen, who saved himself from a trip to the hospital with a dodge at the absolutely last second. Hatcher went airborne, elbow first, and head-shotted his unsuspecting team mate Lupul who was just behind. Lupul lost 25 games in what was probably his best season. I felt badly for him but had no sympathy at all for Hatcher who looked for the first time in my memory to show some guilt for his pure f-kery. Obviously it was only because this time, for once, it was his team mate. His career ran out of road after that and seems like justice that he finished with a such a shameful flourish. Asshole.

    Tom Waits always

  23. LoDog says:

    Dreger would say something that stupid. Hamonic won’t cost as much as most think.

  24. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Jordan,

    Starting next year Klefbom makes more than Hamonic.
    Hamonic is more physical
    Hamonic is right-handed, which is highly sought after.

    Klefbom straight up is probably fair. But I don’t think the Oilers should do it.

  25. stush18 says:

    fifthcartel:
    I take the Klefbom + for Hamonic in the same light as a 2nd for Brandon Pirri talk or the 1st round pick for Cam Talbot talk. Both were moved for significantly less, I think the same goes for Hamonic.

    Agreed. Could be snow trying to set a higher price.

    If he doesn’t move him at the draft, everyday closer to training camp is less of a return. snkw should know this with his discussions anout boychuk and leddy. I really Don’t see a trading partner other than us for him. Colorado maybe but I’m not sure that is t too far

  26. pocession charge says:

    I would also trade Nurse before I traded Klefbom. Prospects for established players will help move this team forward.

  27. KJ says:

    jimmers2,

    Hey Jimmers,

    I do remember that, thanks for bringing it up. Fitting end to his career. Nice replay on youtube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0-q7ooFeQ

    Agreed on the asshole. =)

  28. russ99 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Jordan,

    Starting next year Klefbom makes more than Hamonic.
    Hamonic is more physical
    Hamonic is right-handed, which is highly sought after.

    Klefbom straight up is probably fair. But I don’t think the Oilers should do it.

    I’d add to this as further justification:

    Nurse has higher upside than Klefbom, especially at defensive zone play, and even more especially at separating the opponent forward from the puck physically, which is a valued skill by our current GM/coach.

    Plus despite lesser NHLE, his point shot and offensive zone play are more effective weapons.

  29. slopitch says:

    The Oilers lack of depth on D was grenaded by having Ference (hurt) and Nikitin (bad) on the roster. I think adding 2 NHL D will be a tremendous boost. I do wonder about the top pairing and the core. I suspect one core guy will have to be moved. Im a fan and I like our guys but I think it’s inevitable. I will predict Ebs for a d-man with Okposo or Eriksson as the replacement. If you can get Hamonic and Demers for less, do it but then I still think the team needs to have a 2 way RW in the mix. Our breakouts are still a disaster. To me it’s Yak or Ebs. I wonder how many goals Yak would have scored playing with McDavid last night. He has a better shot and Ebs seemed to wiff on several.

    Last night was good although long. Seemed like it was better to watch on TV then in person. Glad I was there though. Sad how the 2000’s were only filled with 2006 and a bunch of jersey retirements on the Rexall timeline. Im also glad Lowe was (mostly) cheered. Guy has poured his entire manhood into this franchise. Same with MacT. I won’t boo those guys ever. Yes they were part of the management problem but it weren’t for lack of trying. And when you heard Smyth and Pisani talk about them it’s always positive. I heard fans talk during the game about how they should have brought back Pronger. These fans turn and boo Lowe and talk about how Hall is useless and needs to go. Oilers fans are a fickle bunch. Hard on their own but nostaglic to anyone who is no longer part of the team. This team needs to win before the fans go insane. Fortunately better days are ahead (said many years before) but I do think Chirelli will do what is required to right the ship and has the pieces in place to do so.

  30. Centre of attention says:

    pocession charge:
    I would also trade Nurse before I traded Klefbom.Prospects for established players will help move this team forward.

    Agree.

    russ99: I’d add to this as further justification:

    Nurse has higher upside than Klefbom, especially at defensive zone play, and even more especially at separating the opponent forward from the puck physically, which is a valued skill by our current GM/coach.

    Plus despite lesser NHLE, his point shot and offensive zone play are more effective weapons.

    Disagree. Klefbom had asserted himself by the 50 game mark, where Nurse still has tons of question marks. I would also disagree with your analysis of Nurse/Klefboms play.

    Klefbom is excellent in his own zone, and has clearly shown more offensive upside. Nurse struggles to recognize threats around the net and regularly completely blows assignments or loses positioning. Nurse’s shot is effective but he would rather carry the puck low than shoot from the line, which is a problem. Klefbom on the other hand has a boomer that has found the net from the top of the circles more than once before injury set him back.

    For example, with K-bomb getting regular PP minutes earlier in the season, we were running at around ~20%. Food for thought.

    My 2 cents on Nurse Vs Klefbom

  31. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Jordan,

    Starting next year Klefbom makes more than Hamonic.
    Hamonic is more physical
    Hamonic is right-handed, which is highly sought after.

    Klefbom straight up is probably fair. But I don’t think the Oilers should do it.

    Klefbom makes 8% more than Hamonic but is locked up twice as long. So I think “Klefbom makes more than Hamonic”, while true, is a bit of an over statement for the point you’re making.

    Other than that I agree. It could be reasonably construed as fair, but I too think it’s the wrong call.

    At best you are replacing a B+ with an A-. This team needs to add the A- without subtracting anything… and needs to add another B+ on top of that.

  32. monsterbater says:

    I remember reading somewhere, may have been Friedman’s 30 thoughts, that Stecher is a Vancouver area kid and grew up a dreaming of play for the Canucks (barf). He also attended their development camp in 2014. He also has a better shot of making the Canucks in the short term no?

    This reminds me of the Danny DeKeyser story all over again.

  33. Rondo says:

    Chiarelli gave up a #16 + #33 in one of the so called strongest draft in 10 years for Reinhart.

    He expected him to be in the lineup right away,that was the theory. Snow fleeced him ,and now they want Harmonic, who knows what the Oilers will give up for him would not be surprised with Klefbom +.

  34. OF17 says:

    russ99: I’d add to this as further justification:

    Nurse has higher upside than Klefbom, especially at defensive zone play, and even more especially at separating the opponent forward from the puck physically, which is a valued skill by our current GM/coach.

    Plus despite lesser NHLE, his point shot and offensive zone play are more effective weapons.

    I respectfully disagree on all points 🙂 Klefbom has shown me more both offensively and defensively than Nurse has, and I’m not convinced Nurse will ever close the gap. Only areas Nurse has the edge are physicality and athleticism, and that second one is only by a hair.

    Reasonable projection for Klefbom at this point is a guy that can score 30 points while sawing off top opposition. In other words, one of the most valuable player types around. Nurse could get there for sure, but he’s less certain to IMO.

  35. OF17 says:

    Rondo:
    Chiarelli gave up a #16 + #33in one of these calledstrongest draft in 10 years for Reinhart.

    He expected him to be in the lineup right away. Snow fleeced him ,and now they wantHarmonic, who knows what the Oilers will give up for him would not be surprised with Klefbom +.

    I don’t think it’s comparable. Chiarelli just fired his scouts. Is he really going to use that intel to draft players, given that he’s already shown he doesn’t trust it? Those picks were getting traded one way or the other, whereas this year, the situation is different.

    Snow is up against the wall. Player wants out, has only 3 teams he wants to go to, one of whom already has 3RHD and the other likely can’t match the Oilers’ offer. This is much more of a Talbot situation than a Reinhart one IMO.

  36. Hockey Buddha says:

    flyfish1168:
    Jordan straight across I feel is to much. Jordan is a true top RW in the league. JMHO

    A friend of mine who sees Hamonic play a lot and is an astute hockey fan says precisely this, Flyfish1168. Eberle is too high of a return for Hamonic.

  37. Snowman says:

    http://www.iltasanomat.fi/sm-liiga/art-2000001154110.html

    Watch the first goal by Laine here and tell me he wouldn’t score approximate 8000 of those on the powerplay with McDavid.

  38. supernova says:

    season not played,

    I think they would love to get their Hands on Either or Both of Hall & RNH.

    If I was Carolina I know that my strength is the young Backend. Do you sacrifice Faulk before the rest are ready?

    Hanifan likely needs another season and a half before he is counted on for major contribution on a game in game out basis.

    I would favour RNH over Hall if I was Carolina as they have some strength on the wings.

    RNH & a Piece for Faulk & a piece

  39. Professor Q says:

    HugThePost,

    I was just about to say this. Not just Alberta, though.

  40. magneto says:

    Something to remember in trading with NYI, they desperately need draft picks this year. Only have a 1st and 4th, combine some picks and you can make a play for more than Hamonic (Nelson if Pouliot goes to ANA)

  41. Jethro Tull says:

    Professor Q:
    HugThePost,

    I was just about to say this. Not just Alberta, though.

    And yet nothing gets said when someone posts about how they know Hall is a cancer in the dressing room, for example.

    He/she didn’t name names and we knew Nurse was hit in the throat. If he/posted that they found Nurse had a spastic colon or something nothing to do with Nurse’s ailment, then yes, too much info and why are you sharing.

  42. GCW_69 says:

    Clay:
    Completely agree on saying “no” to Klefbom for Hamonic.It’s a zero-sum move.Makes no sense whatsoever.

    If Chiarelli has a line on a top four defender, but he is a lefty, then flipping Klefbom for Hamonic could make sense. That’s about the only scenario though.

  43. Ducey says:

    Rondo:
    Chiarelli gave up a #16 + #33in one of the socalledstrongest draft in 10 years for Reinhart.

    He expected him to be in the lineup right away,that was the theory. Snow fleeced him ,and now they wantHarmonic, who knows what the Oilers will give up for him would not be surprised with Klefbom +.

    So far Reinhart has played 28 NHL games for the Oilers. That’s more than the two picks have.

    Year 1 goes to Chia.

    Next year likely goes to Chia as well. Neither pick is likely to be in the NHL. Reinhart likely will get some games.

    We will see after that.

    Barzal is having a decent year (88 points in 58 gp). He is not exactly a giant, so we will see how he develops. The #33, Stevens has had injuries, has just played 38 games and is just at a PPG pace.

    Come back in 4 years and you might be right, or not.

  44. GCW_69 says:

    Hockey Buddha: A friend of mine who sees Hamonic play a lot and is an astute hockey fan says precisely this, Flyfish1168.Eberle is too high of a return for Hamonic.

    Toss in Nelson or Lee and it evens out, I think.

  45. speeds says:

    Ducey,

    result vs process.

  46. magneto says:

    GCW_69,

    Eberle and 2x 3rds for Nelson+Hamonic
    Nelson is a great scorer and can move all throughout the lineup, like Hoffman in OTT but younger and signed.

  47. slopitch says:

    The Frank Seravalli interview is solid.

  48. season not played says:

    Ducey,

    It’s not Barzal the Oilers will regret passing on, it’s Kyle Conner.

  49. --hudson-- says:

    Fortinbras:
    Did anyone notice how the hardworking Oilers of the 90’s were largely absent from the festivities last night?

    I would assume a number of those guys are employed by NHL teams, but it sure would’ve been fun to see the old guns: Guerin, Weight, Kovalenko, Moreau, … I thought Grier would be a lock!

    Enjoyed seeing Joaquin Gage, he was the goalie when I first started getting interested in the Oil. I was so confused by that name.

    My only memory of Joaquin Gage was him letting in 2 goals by Deron Quint to tie an NHL record for two fastest by one player. Something like 3 seconds. lol

    There were quite a few of the 90s support player but the core was greatly missing; Maltby, Podein, Devereaux, Pearson, Steve Rice, DeBrusk, Brathwaite, Corson (spits), McAmmond, etc.

    Seeing them reminded me how this organization has been flushing developing players for eons. Barrie Moore reminded me of Miro Satan which reminded me of David Vyborny & Ray Whitney (good thing they weren’t in attendance). Maybe every team has these stories? If so, it seems like the Oilers are rarely on the receiving end anymore.

    The Oilers did put together a great ceremony. I grew up with the 80s Oilers (& Han Solo) as my heroes. Some of them have aged tremendously and some of them still look like young men (Krushelnyski especially).

    I really liked they found a way to pay tribute to Ace Bailey and the other departed Oilers.

    Was hoping they would have paid more tribute to Mark Lewis, or maybe they did and it wasn’t televised. Will miss that voice.

  50. doritogrande says:

    season not played:
    Ducey,

    It’s not Barzal the Oilers will regret passing on, it’s Kyle Conner.

    Quoted for truthiness. Winnipeg could have a 4-pack of young, cheap, home grown centers (Shiefele, Connor, Lowry, Copp) as early as the second half of next season.

    And we’re trying to trade one of ours.

  51. godot10 says:

    Klefbom for Hamonic doesn”t gain anything or solve anything. The Oilers would still need two more D. Plus, Klefbom is better and cost-controlled for longer than Hamonic.

    And Hamonic is hurt again too.

    Carolina is NOT going to screw up their rebuild. They are rebuilding from the blueline out.

    #WaitingForTheHelicopterMoney #QEforThePeople

  52. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: Klefbom makes 8% more than Hamonic but is locked up twice as long.So I think “Klefbom makes more than Hamonic”, while true, is a bit of an over statement for the point you’re making.

    Other than that I agree.It could be reasonably construed as fair, but I too think it’s the wrong call.

    At best you are replacing a B+ with an A-.This team needs to add the A- without subtracting anything… and needs to add another B+ on top of that.

    I was responding to Jordan’s post that said Hamonic makes more money than Klefbom. Starting next year he doesnt.

  53. Frank the dog says:

    We need to plug some well documented holes next year but I maintain the bigger problem is injury.
    It’s bad enough when the referees simply make bad calls that consistently favour the opposition.
    The worst part is the uncalled fouls that let the other teams know it’s ok to make those dangerous hits, while our players get called a lot more tightly.
    Also frustrating are the non-called trips, waterskiing, slew foots, etc.
    Not to mention the bizarre scheduling.
    That’s what really needs to get fixed. If you don’t fix that you can draft Matthews and we’ll still be pissed off at the end of every season.

  54. Water Fire says:

    Klefbom is a better player than Hamonic IMO. I think and hope Chiarelli says no to trades that are at best sideways.

    The Oilers have forwards and picks in excess. They can’t improve the back end by sending good defensemen out.

    If you trade a younger defensemen for older it has to be a prospect who is not yet developed to the NHL.

    It doesn’t have to happen at a specified time, it just has to happen. Powder dry and all that.

  55. GCW_69 says:

    magneto:
    GCW_69,

    Eberle and 2x 3rds for Nelson+Hamonic
    Nelson is a great scorer and can move all throughout the lineup, like Hoffman in OTT but younger and signed.

    I would do it, but I think if you dangled Fayne instead of the picks, the islanders might bite. The additional cap space from moving Fayne could be used to help improve the third line. Parenteau would be my choice. Matthias could get some love from Chiarelli.

  56. geowal says:

    (Still living in the nostalgia from last night, and never had time to write anything up)

    *—*

    My first NHL game was back in March 1994 and of course was at the coliseum, Oilers vs Red Wings. We were going on a trip through the local 4-H club in Dixonville AB that my brother was a member of. In one of those things that seems unlikely to happen these days, travel seems taken for granted more now, the whole family jumped on a bus along with other 4-H families and rode together from Peace River to Edmonton. I remember being very excited as we had never travelled much together at that point, one family trip to the old country when I was very young, and beyond that my world existed north of Edmonton; shopping trips to Grande Prairie were a point of excitement. So needless to say riding a bus for 5 hours to Edmonton was well worth it, just driving around and seeing “towers” was exciting.

    This game was in what would prove to be the second playoff miss after the glory years. The 1991 and 1992 seasons had been held together with a few carryovers like MacT and Bucky, Billy Ranford and some newcomers like Vincent Damphousse, Bernie Nichols, and Joe Murphy. In 1994 most of those were now gone too except MacT, Bucky, and Ranford. A few intriguing players like Zdeno Ciger, Doug Weight, and Jason Arnott coming along though….
    it was apparent that the playoffs were not going to happen much anymore. I had only watched a handful of games on tv at that point, I remember the 90s cup well, the previous not at all, and the following seasons subsisted on the occasional HNIC and CFRN showing, bridged with struggling against the antenna to receive 630 CHED from 500 km away in a basement bedroom with an old dial radio. It didn’t help that the local station was in 610, so you were listening to Rod Phillips over top of some country song. Seems crazy almost in hindsight, but I’d do it again.

    Anyways for the game itself, I had had no exposure at that point to non-Oiler fans. Surely there were a few up north but they kept quiet. Steve Yzerman was a vet at this point and the focal point of that team, playoffs becoming a regular occurrence now, Scotty Bowman at the helm. There was a guy in our section who would, every few minutes, belt out “LET’S GO STEVIEEEEE-YYYYY”! I was quite impressed at this apparent show of bravery in enemy territory. As it turns out the Oilers managed to win 4-2. I can’t say I remember much of the game itself beyond that fan, but was in awe of the building, and I think I made it on the screen as well in a borrowed oiler jersey or maybe a t-shirt. Kept that ticket stub for years, might even have it still. First memory of that old barn definitely the fondest, though there were some good ones in the 2000s when I lived in the city.

  57. Centre of attention says:

    According to Brendan Ullrich, Bear is getting a contract today as well.

    Do Jones / Bear turn pro next fall? I would rather another year of Junior for both.

  58. Rondo says:

    Ducey: So far Reinhart has played 28 NHL games for the Oilers.That’s more than the two picks have.

    Year 1 goes to Chia.

    Next year likely goes to Chia as well. Neither pick is likely to be in the NHL. Reinhart likely will get some games.

    We will see after that.

    Barzal is having a decent year (88 points in 58 gp). He is not exactly a giant, so we will see how he develops.The #33, Stevens has had injuries, has just played 38 games and is just at a PPG pace.

    Come back in 4 years and you might be right, or not.

    Who said it would have been Barzal could of been Connor and don’t forget about the #33 pick.

  59. magneto says:

    GCW_69,

    I don’t think NYI will take almost 4mil back in salary on that deal. Possibly a bigger deal but I am not sure

  60. rickithebear says:

    Lidstrom:
    1. 1st pairing cokmp faced
    2. 1st pairing box/net defence
    3. 1st pairing Even production
    4. 1st unit PKGA

    this year klefbom has shown a standard he performed for 30gm.
    1. 1st pairing comp faced
    2. 1st pairing box/net defence
    3. 1st pairing Even production
    4. 1st unit PKGA

    So nurse has a higher Ceiling than
    Klefbom uh er Lidstrom uh , uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Nurse 4th worst boxnet protection in the league!

    yup!

    Bang on!

  61. rickithebear says:

    season not played:
    Ducey,

    It’s not Barzal the Oilers will regret passing on, it’s Kyle Conner.

    His age NHLE said 4th best Even player in the draft.

  62. tapper says:

    F**k the eastern media and NHL.

    Dreger saying Klefbom+ for Hamoinc? Unless you have serious concerns about long-term impact of Klefbom’s injuries, it’s insane to trade a 2-dimensional #2 d-man that’s got more upside for a 1 dimensional #2 d-man. Ridiculous.

    Then we have Dreger again on 1260/TSN: Chiarelli dealing from position of weakness.

    He talks about “Todd McLellan is a good coach but Dallas Eakins was a good coach” and then goes on that “McLellan now joins that group” of good choices that have trouble in Edm. Not even close.

    The reality of this season is this:
    – injuries cost this team 5-10 pts (closer to 10)
    – NHL/refs cost this team 5-10 pts (closer to 10)
    – PP cost this team 5-10 pts. (closer to 10)

    Add 20-30 points to their total and it’s a totally different narrative. F***ing tune in. (PP can be fixed with 1 addition and it’s not Hamonic)

    It’s like they are trying to will Edmonton to continue to suck by building narratives that miss key themes, and that under-value Edm’s pieces while over-valuing non-Edm pieces. Edm pays 1st+2nd for Reinhart and now suggesting Klef+ for Hamonic, but settle a 3rd for Purcell and “hey don’t expect a good return for Yak”.

    Hope they win the lottery again.

  63. pocession charge says:

    Centre of attention:
    According to Brendan Ullrich, Bear is getting a contract today as well.

    Who? Ricki? Good luck getting scoring chances in that box.

  64. Lowetide says:

    Bear and Jones are 18 now, will be 19 next season. As they are CHL players, I believe the rule applies (NHL or back to junior) although Jones was selected out of the USHL and the rules are always changing. I believe the CHL-NHL rule applies to both.

  65. AsiaOil says:

    Wow so anything that contradicts one of the 6 massive mainstream corporate groups that dominates 90% of US media is a “breathless conspiracy theory”. US corporate media products (that’s what these are) have been utterly discredited over the past decade as a source of objective reporting. The NYT has has basically become a mouthpiece for the US State Department and it’s selective and biased reporting has led it to be largely discounted as a source of information by an ever growing percentage of informed American citizens. You are being led by the nose without even realizing it – your decision to remain uninformed – but don’t deride others for actually taking the time to educate and inform themselves by assessing a wider range of information than you are satisfied with.

    If you take that line with hockey – everything and everyone on this blog is uninformed and we should all just read and agree with Spector, Matheson and the rest of the mainstream tv, radio and print sources.

    Open you eyes…..

    Bohologo:
    There were some interesting takes on the meldonium issue yesterday.I prefer the more level-headed accounts to the breathless conspiracy theories (which I reserve only for NHL referees and their obvious plan to ruin the Oilers), one of which may be found here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/sports/international/meldonium-russia-drug-doping-hockey.html?_r=0

  66. Loyal2theoil says:

    i prefer listening to McKenzie, Friedman, and Lebrun personally. They arent ignorant and just very good sources.

    also like Ferraro with his coaching-esque analysis on many subjects.

  67. The Trade Guy says:

    I have a few rexall memories.

    First game I went to was in 98 Habs Vs. Oilers. I was young 19-20yrs old and went with the boys. Oilers were bad, cujo was bad. They lost 5-3 and I had too much to drink and was deservedly ejected a few minutes before games end.

    Went every year for a game for the most part after that.

    Saw Arnott’s last game as an Oiler (or at least last home game) I don’t even remember who that was against. Maybe the Flyers. Leclair scored a cherry picker goal and a greasy one too. I think I remember the Oilers had just acquired Hamrlik. The memories are hazy on that one. (not due to drinking. I never drank at an Oilers game after the first one)

    I saw the Oilers shut out the Mark Messier Canucks 3-0. That was the only game I’ve been to with my dad. Brashear wailed on Bucky and crotch chopped the Oilers bench. He wouldn’t fight McSorely and laughed at him when the refs got between (somewhat prophetic as to what happened to those two a year or two later I guess)

    I saw a crappy 1-1 Avs game where Laraque did his great on the half boards puck cycle where nobody could get it but he wasn’t doing much else and then all the sudden the Av backed off and he just turned and skated right into the killzone and buried it.

    I saw the Habs game in 2011 I think where Hemsky and Hall scored and it was the only time I saw the Oilers beat the habs in person (my best friend is a habs fan and he was mad about that loss until I reminded him his team always wins on our trips)

    My friends took me to a leafs Oilers game for a stag of sorts for me. The oilers were simply garbage and it was so bad and boring that I left after the second period.

    Last game I saw was a couple seasons ago where the Oilers probably played their best game of the year and beat the Crosby Penguins in overtime. I remember being bored as sin for the first and most of the second periods and then it was a really good game.

    And that’s all I got. I think I’ve only seen three games live in the last six years or so and I’m 2-1 but I haven’t really wanted to spend 600-1000 bucks to pile into a car with a bunch of buddies that are just as busy with life as me and watch a bad game.

    I’m sure I’ll have to check out the new building at some point. Probably a Habs/Oilers game and I’ll get to say I saw McDavid and be mocked after the habs win.

  68. Adam Wu says:

    AsiaOil: US corporate media products (that’s what these are) have been utterly discredited over the past decade as a source of objective reporting….

    What do you mean, “over the past decade”? This is the way things have always been.

    There has never, ever, been such a thing as “a source of objective reporting” ever in the history of media.

  69. Adam Wu says:

    Snows up a creek on Hamonic, a creek with steadily dropping water level at that.

    I say Chia should at least try to squeeze him until it gets to Fayne + prospect and no higher.

  70. Jordan says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I was responding to Jordan’s post that said Hamonic makes more money than Klefbom. Starting next year he doesnt.

    It’s true – I made a mistake, and now the confusion is EVERYWHERE! AHHHHH!

    I will rephrase – based on salary amount and contract length, Klefbom has the more valuable contract (read – desirable on the part of an organization).

  71. AsiaOil says:

    Exactly. For the FIRST time as an Oiler GR got to spend a bit of time with a dependable vet in Sekera last night and he was very solid. Actually he’s been solid most nights since being recalled and I don’t understand why people think he needs more AHL time. What he needs is to play with dependable NHL vet who can pass and skate. Unfortunately the Oilers are not exactly overflowing with that commodity unless you play on the top pair against top opposition with Sekera. Nurse is the darling of the fans because he can skate and punch people – he tried to play with Sekera and got absolutely slaughtered. GR is the better defenseman right now. Does Nurse have a higher potential ceiling – obviously yes – but he also really struggles with defensive coverage and is clueless in the offensive zone at this point. I do Nurse for Hamonic as Hamonic is pretty much Nurse’s upside and we had a chance to evaluate. Hope the kid is OK.

    Ducey: So far Reinhart has played 28 NHL games for the Oilers.That’s more than the two picks have.

    Year 1 goes to Chia.

    Next year likely goes to Chia as well. Neither pick is likely to be in the NHL. Reinhart likely will get some games.

    We will see after that.

    Barzal is having a decent year (88 points in 58 gp). He is not exactly a giant, so we will see how he develops.The #33, Stevens has had injuries, has just played 38 games and is just at a PPG pace.

    Come back in 4 years and you might be right, or not.

  72. Adam Wu says:

    Rondo: Who said it would have been Barzal could of been Connor and don’t forget about the #33 pick.

    Substituting Conner for Barzal doesn’t change the logic of the post you were commenting on. Conner hasn’t played in the NHL yet either.

    Adding the 33rd pick similarly doesn’t change a thing.

  73. Jordan says:

    Frank the dog:
    We need to plug some well documented holes next year but I maintain the bigger problem is injury.
    It’s bad enough when the referees simply make bad calls that consistently favour the opposition.
    The worst part is the uncalled fouls that let the other teams know it’s ok to make those dangerous hits, while our players get called a lot more tightly.
    Also frustrating are the non-called trips, waterskiing, slew foots, etc.
    Not to mention the bizarre scheduling.
    That’s what really needs to get fixed. If you don’t fix that you can draft Matthews and we’ll still be pissed off at the end of every season.

    While I agree that this has been an ongoing problem for the referees at Oilers games…. it wasn’t last night.

    Last night seemed to be called pretty evenly to my mind.

    We dump on the refs a lot here, but It’s also important to note when they do a good job.

    Last night was such a night.

    Thanks stripes! Way to perform on the big stage!

  74. AsiaOil says:

    It’s gotten much worse over the past 25 years but particularly over the past decade. It’s the dramatic reduction in choice that’s the issue.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

    The illusion of gumshoe reporters doggedly putting together a story has been consigned to the dustbin. Many reports are now simply reprints of govt press releases and there is a lot of very disturbing info around about people flat out being paid to write stories written by government sources.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted-stories-for-the-cia/5429324

    But it’s all just a conspiracy theory so don’t worry about it.

    Adam Wu: What do you mean, “over the past decade”? This is the way things have always been.

    There has never, ever, been such a thing as “a source of objective reporting” ever in the history of media.

  75. stush18 says:

    AsiaOil:
    Exactly. For the FIRST time as an Oiler GR got to spend a bit of time with a dependable vet in Sekera last night and he was very solid. Actually he’s been solid most nights since being recalled and I don’t understand why people think he needs more AHL time. What he needs is to play with dependable NHL vet who can pass and skate. Unfortunately the Oilers are not exactly overflowing with that commodity unless you play on the top pair against top opposition with Sekera. Nurse is the darling of the fans because he can skate and punch people – he tried to play with Sekera and got absolutely slaughtered. GR is the better defenseman right now. Does Nurse have a higher potential ceiling – obviously yes – but he also really struggles with defensive coverage and is clueless in the offensive zone at this point. I do Nurse for Hamonic as Hamonic is pretty much Nurse’s upside and we had a chance to evaluate. Hope the kid is OK.

    Agreed. Everyone rips on GR because of what he was traded for, and ignores the fact he has been playing better than nurse since the all star break.

    Since training camp I’ve seen a smarter player in Reinhart, and a better puck handler.

    I think they both top out as top pairing shutdown dman, with Reinhart in the mold of lidstrom, and nurse in the form of pronger. Reinhart uses his IQ to shutdown players, while nurse works like bastard to get the puck off the other team, using his physicality and reach

  76. Gay Leno says:

    I would argue that a mature Reinhart will be a hell of a lot better in the passing/puck moving department than Fayne has been or ever will be, and that the difference between them could set up Reinhart as a legitimate top 4 option. This is opposed to Fayne, a good bottom 4 defenceman who you could never argue had the offensive/puck moving skills needed in a top 4 defender.

  77. AsiaOil says:

    Adam Wu: Substituting Conner for Barzal doesn’t change the logic of the post you were commenting on. Conner hasn’t played in the NHL yet either.

    Adding the 33rd pick similarly doesn’t change a thing.

    We paid in full for GR if you use an expected games played by draft position formula since #16 and #33 could be expected to play about 500 NHL games. Picking out this player or that who we could have, might have, probably would have picked to compare with GR is a mugs game and not useful.

    As for Klef for Hamonic – don’t agree with that swap – but one of the young LHD is getting traded this summer. We have Klef, Davey, GR and Nurse on the left side plus Sekera. I don’t trade Sekera as he’s the only vet and one of a very few solid UFAs to choose us. I think Nurse is the guy you trade for a RHD as his reputation probably exceeds his true value after watching him this year. The average Joe won’t like it – but it’s probably the right move.

  78. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    tapper,

    I hear the narrative about the anti-Oiler ref bias a lot, but I haven’t seen any hard proof. I understand someone (Rex I think) is looking into it in a semi-analytical way, which should be interesting to see.

    From what I can tell based on NHL numbers we have a penalty differential of about -51, meaning we’ve been credited with 51 more penalty minutes than have opposing teams during our games. That ranks us 23rd in the league. Not saying that’s proof of anything but it’s interesting.

    The LA kings are frequently referenced as being able to get away with anything. They 29th at -116 with only Anaheim worse at -119.

    But it’s not a west coast bias either, because the Sharks are #1 at +163.

    So I guess what I’m saying is that if the refs are intentionally trying to screw over the Oilers, they are doing a good job of keeping it on the DL.

  79. GCW_69 says:

    magneto:
    GCW_69,

    I don’t think NYI will take almost 4mil back in salary on that deal. Possibly a bigger deal but I am not sure

    Money is the issue. That’s $9.65M coming in and $6.3m going out. But, if Eberle is replacing Okposo then the islanders actually have another $2.8m going out. Maybe they would pay the premium. Otherwise, picks is the way to go instead of Fayne.

  80. Water Fire says:

    AsiaOil: Asia

    Anything funded by ad revenue has to appeal to it’s constituency or it will eventually go out of business. As corporate everything has become bigger and more centralized it gets worse as they try to influence the entire universe for more revenue.

    I’m not certain there ever was an age of innocence for the media, just different motives before.

  81. frjohnk says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    tapper,

    I hear the narrative about the anti-Oiler ref bias a lot, but I haven’t seen any hard proof.I understand someone (Rex I think) is looking into it in a semi-analytical way, which should be interesting to see.

    From what I can tell based on NHL numbers we have a penalty differential of about -51, meaning we’ve been credited with 51 more penalty minutes than have opposing teams during our games.That ranks us 23rd in the league.Not saying that’s proof of anything but it’s interesting.

    The LA kings are frequently referenced as being able to get away with anything.They 29th at -116 with only Anaheim worse at -119.

    But it’s not a west coast bias either, because the Sharks are #1 at +163.

    So I guess what I’m saying is that if the refs are intentionally trying to screw over the Oilers, they are doing a good job of keeping it on the DL.

    NEVER USE STATS TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE!!!

  82. AsiaOil says:

    Actually I stand corrected. Using Schuckers formula – Reinhart could be expected to play 783 games as a #4 draft pick while #16 and #33 add up to 650 expected games. Better expected value but still paid in full.

  83. tapper says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    One issue is that’s a pretty simplistic stat to rely on. “Lies, damn lies, and stats…” and all.

    It doesn’t factor in total time on the PP, or the score, and it includes single game outliers. I’d rather look at say (just off the cuff) a histogram of median (more robust stat) minutes per-game difference, that should give you a distribution around 0. Throw out the tails (say do 90th percentile, removes outliers again). Then slice it a bunch of different way, most importantly by score differential at the time…then you might be able to start to draw some conclusions.

    I’m not implying that it is only penalty calls either. Go back to the LA game in October, non-calls for sure, but that McDavid goal that got called back. That sends the game to OT. 1 pt, maybe 2.

    There are several more that I’m aware of and I only watch ~1/4 – 1/2 the games:
    – Goalie interference on Hall vs Avs in Feb,
    – Goalie interference on Pouliot. against Cgy in Oct
    – Lucic on Brossoit in March.

  84. kinger_OIL says:

    Asia mentioned it in his post: here’s the challenge the OIL have:

    -Only one of Nurse Davidson and Griff should be paired with a bonafide D partner on 3rd pair

    – 3 D at their stage is too many to break in. On a good team 1 plays. Suspect they will throw two of them together in the bottom pair, and/or play one of them too high: that isn’t playoffs

    – They won’t all play as well as Davidson did for a brief bit this year.

  85. Lowetide says:

    AsiaOil:
    Actually I stand corrected. Using Schuckers formula – Reinhart could be expected to play 783 games as a #4 draft pick while #16 and #33 add up to 650 expected games. Better expected value but still paid in full.

    That is about what Cullen’s numbers suggested as well.

  86. AsiaOil says:

    Sure only kids and the naive believe the world is “fair” or “objective” but there was certainly much more diversity in media ownership and perspective 25 years ago. Even within the same companies it’s changed. Compare the Guardian which used to be a leftish, labour-centric newspaper a generation ago to it’s present day pandering to the global 1%, free trade and war party government du jour.

    Water Fire: Anything funded by ad revenue has to appeal to it’s constituency or it will eventually go out of business. As corporate everything has become bigger and more centralized it gets worse as they try to influence the entire universe for more revenue.

    I’m not certain there ever was an age of innocence for the media, just different motives before.

  87. AsiaOil says:

    If we can off-load Fayne without taking back a truly awful contract – fine – and I would be happy to have Gryba or Pardy as our #6/7 dman. But if that’s not possible then having Fayne as your #6/7 next year is OK because he WILL play on the 2nd pair at some point due to injuries. Yes he’s over-paid and played too high on this roster – but he is an actual NHL defenseman and we don’t have enough of those on the right side.

  88. B S says:

    Hamonic strikes me as Fayne 2.0. Most of us agree that Fayne is an effective defenseman and would be an exceptional 3rd pairing for a little too much money (I know you see him as a lot more LT). But when the Oilers acquired him he was playing top pairing for a strong defensive team in the eastern conference. Hamonic is probably better than Fayne (almost certainly based on the offense alone), but I would be concerned about trading another dman out of the eastern conference and expecting him to play top pairing out west.

    As far as I’m concerned, unless Hamonic is going to be a capable top pair, or incredible 2nd pairing in the Western Conference, trading one of the top RW in the NHL, or one of our top 2 dmen on the team is just going to result in the Oilers spinning their wheels. A play like Demers (just money) or acquiring a Hamonic, or Vatanen for prospects and picks, even good prospects, is a better decision.

    Too much is made of depleting the system by trading away picks and prospects. Reinhardt for picks whose players may never make an impact and who will not be making it for the next three years is exactly the right play, even in a strong draft. Any picks in this draft and any prospects in the system should be in play to get the right balance on the NHL squad. once we have some veteran stability in the system, Next years picks and prospects can be developed properly in at their own pace because the Oilers are competitive without them.

    Also, please no more “trade Eberle AND Yakupov” scenarios without replacing their scoring on that side. Admittedly I like both those players but losing both, not just one, leaves us with Drasaitl on RW, followed by pylons and garbage bins, and only 2 scoring centers, who, if history tells us anything, will each be injured for half the season Because Oilers.

  89. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    tapper,

    I get that. I understand the stat is very simplistic and isn’t representative. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide some insight.

    I also understand you can point to instances where bad calls have been made, or calls weren’t made that should have been. Happens all the time.

    If the Oilers are being targeted, then the refs are doing an impressive job of doing it in a subtle enough way that it doesn’t push the Oilers +/- in PIMS to the fringes, they are still comfortably near the center. It’s also impressive that they’ve managed to penalize the kings so heavily dispite being (apparently) biased in their favour, given that their penalty diferential is more than 100 worse than the Oil. If they are making sure to do that during inconsequential times, they are doing a heck of a job, because that’s got to be a tough thing to accomplish, especially given that they’d need to coordinate between different groups of officials working different games, and they’d have to manage to keep every one of them from spilling the beans.

    I agree parsing the data as you’ve suggested would be more effective. It would also be really time consuming. If someone wants to do it and show me I’ll give it a fair shake.

    In the meantime I only know 3 things.

    1. The oilers PIM +/- is in the range of middle of the pack
    2. The team often referenced as benefiting the most from calls actually benefits the second least from calls based on the numbers in front of me.
    3. Most importantly, the people that are complaining about the officiating as it relates to the Oilers are all cheering for the Oilers.

    That last point strikes me as weird because I’m also a fan of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, and a lot of Hurricanes fans can make pretty strong cases that the refs are biased against that team too. It’s crazy that the two teams I cheer for are both subject to the same bias. Or they aren’t.

  90. Jaxon says:

    Clay,

    Clay:
    Completely agree on saying “no” to Klefbom for Hamonic.It’s a zero-sum move.Makes no sense whatsoever.

    We don’t talk about offer sheets much as an option to fix the D.Every time I see Caleb Jones’s name I think to myself “right, they’re going to offer sheet Seth Jones this summer”.Use the draft picks for this year to restock the system (and get Laine, creek don’t rise), and pillage picks from 2017 instead.

    Also, RNH + Pou on the third line = UNICORNS.Therefore, can’t happen.The Hockey Gords will smite one or both of those players before there is 6 players ahead of them in the lineup.

    But imagine that third line?That’s pretty damn good.

    Every time I see Caleb’s name this is what I think:

    I think they should trade LD Caleb Jones to Columbus to play with his brother RD Seth Jones. That is where Caleb may have the most value, as it is something that would help CBJ make one of their top players happy and he is a good prospect in his own right. Plus, making Seth Jones happy as they go into contract negotiations this summer could be a very big deal if they want to tie him up long term and buy some UFA years at a decent price.

    The big prize for Edmonton would be Michael Paliotta, he’s a 6′-4″ 215lbs, Right D, Captain in Vermont got 36 pts in 41gp last season which is an NHLe of 30pts. He is only 22. He could be next year’s Colton Parayko (they are both RD, same age, same size and Paliotta outperformed Parayko last season). Scouting reports have Paliotta as a good skater, shutdown D who found an offensive side to his game. CBJ has great young depth on RD so they may be willing to let a RD prospect go for a LD prospect who is the brother of their franchise player.

    I know Paliotta will not be passing Seth Jones and David Savard on RD and CBJ just re-signed Prout for 2 more seasons as 3rd pair RD and Cody Gouloubef got 16 minutes per night as their 4th RD option and he is back next season and Paliotta is an RFA this summer that needs a new contract, so Paliotta may be somewhat expendable on the right side. Paliotta might also be a player that ends up exposed in an expansion draft as Tyutin has a no move clause and CBJ is bound to protect 2 of Jack Johnson, Seth Jones, Ryan Murray and David Savard, definitely leaving Paliotta exposed.

    And since CBJ’s manager has named Lauri Korpikoski to the Finnish World Cup roster, it seems he may value Korpikoski more than most people.

    LW Kerby Rychel seems to be unhappy in CBJ and had requested a trade at one time. Plus, in all likelihood, CBJ would end up exposing Rychel in an expansion draft anyway.

    From a March 22 Hockey Writers article by Dustin Nelson:
    “Worse yet, these aren’t four of the forwards you’d protect. Brandon Dubinsky, Nick Foligno, David Clarkson and Scott Hartnell all have NMCs. That leaves only three forward spaces with which to protect Brandon Saad, Boone Jenner, Alexander Wennberg, Cam Atkinson, William Karlsson, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Sonny Milano and Kerby Rychel.”

    So I would love to see LW Lauri Korpikoski and LD Caleb Jones for RD Michael Paliotta and LW Kerby Rychel.

  91. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    AsiaOil:
    Sure only kids and the naive believe the world is “fair” or “objective” but there was certainly much more diversity in media ownership and perspective 25 years ago. Even within the same companies it’s changed. Compare the Guardian which used to be a leftish, labour-centric newspaper a generation ago to it’s present day pandering to the global 1%, free trade and war party government du jour.

    Hasn’t the Internet in a general sense made this sort of complaint obsolete? Don’t like the bias of the NYTimes in regards to Russian reporting, that’s fair it takes two clicks to find Sputnik or TASS, that too Putin esque mkay well the Huffington Post, National Observer, Al Jazeera or maybe Vice would love the web traffic. Of course those are all biased as well so why not check out, as we so frequently do here, one of the billion or so blogs or Reddit threads on said topic? It takes only a couple seconds and you can find whatever opinion you are looking for.

    Admonishing people for reading a major paper or watching a local TV network is one of the more silly pastimes one can engage in IMO. People wanna read the Edmonton Journal or Marc Spector for Oiler news, well that’s their perogative, odds are they don’t care about an issue or a topic nearly as much as someone who will go and investigate the hundreds of other sources at ones disposal if you so see fit. Life is long, sometimes boring and generally full of tons of other worries, the evening news is just a way to catch on the world spinning by around us.

  92. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    B S,

    Hamonic is a much better skater than Fayne. A lot quicker.

    He is more likely to be able to translate his game to the Pacific Division than Fayne because of his skating.

  93. Melman says:

    Adam Wu:
    Snows up a creek on Hamonic, a creek with steadily dropping water level at that.

    I say Chia should at least try to squeeze him until it gets to Fayne + prospect and no higher.

    Fayne, Korpse & Musil – the 3 for 1!

  94. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Jaxon,

    Agree 100%. CLB is the most likely suitor for Korps, and selling them Jones might net a nice return for us.

    Jones is a good prospect, but realistically he’s the third best D we drafted last year in the later rounds, and #4 (Marino) seems like a decent pick too.

  95. russ99 says:

    rickithebear:
    Lidstrom:
    1. 1st pairing cokmp faced
    2. 1st pairing box/net defence
    3. 1st pairing Even production
    4. 1st unit PKGA

    this year klefbom has shown a standard he performed for 30gm.
    1. 1st pairing comp faced
    2. 1st pairing box/netdefence
    3. 1st pairing Even production
    4. 1st unit PKGA

    So nurse has a higher Ceiling than
    Klefbom uh er Lidstrom uh , uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Nurse 4th worst boxnet protection in the league!

    yup!

    Bang on!

    I’d really love to see someone write an objective post on Klefbom’s strengths and weaknesses without leaning on the obviously skewed fancystat numbers that portray him as something he’s not.

    If by watching him play in the defensive zone without the puck you can equate him to anything more than league average, I’d say you’re blind.

  96. pocession charge says:

    AsiaOil:
    Wow so anything that contradicts one of the 6 massive mainstream corporate groups that dominates 90% of US media is a “breathless conspiracy theory”. US corporate media products (that’s what these are) have been utterly discredited over the past decade as a source of objective reporting. The NYT has has basically become a mouthpiece for the US State Department and it’s selective and biased reporting has led it to be largely discounted as a source of information by an ever growing percentage of informed American citizens. You are being led by the nose without even realizing it –your decision to remain uninformed – but don’t deride others for actually taking the time to educate and inform themselves by assessing a wider range of information than you are satisfied with.

    If you take that line with hockey – everything and everyone on this blog is uninformed and we should all just read and agree with Spector, Matheson and the rest of the mainstream tv, radio and print sources.

    Open you eyes…..

    It’s kind of like vaccinations. Who do these pro-vaccine nuts think they are fooling? When has a vaccine done anything but harm? The internet told me so.

  97. AsiaOil says:

    Lowetide: That is about what Cullen’s numbers suggested as well.

    Not sure why people think anyone would gives up a big, young dman and #4 draft pick with two years left on his ELC before he’s played much NHL time for peanuts. It just doesn’t happen and you are going to pay in full if one is available. In recent examples the Johnsons and Stall had much more NHL time to evaluate their upside (and still cost a lot) and Seth Jones cost a big, young #1 C. NYI got a good return for GR but there was (and is still is) a lot of risk in that trade for them by not waiting the magical 5 years – especially with dmen.

  98. Water Fire says:

    B S:
    Hamonic strikes me as Fayne 2.0. Most of us agree that Fayne is an effective defenseman and would be an exceptional 3rd pairing for a little too much money (I know you see him as a lot more LT). But when the Oilers acquired him he was playing top pairing for a strong defensive team in the eastern conference. Hamonic is probably better than Fayne (almost certainly based on the offense alone), but I would be concerned about trading another dman out of the eastern conference and expecting him to play top pairing out west.

    As far as I’m concerned, unless Hamonic is going to be a capable top pair, or incredible 2nd pairing in the Western Conference, trading one of the top RW in the NHL, or one of our top 2 dmen on the team is just going to result in the Oilers spinning their wheels. A play like Demers (just money) or acquiring a Hamonic, or Vatanen for prospects and picks, even good prospects, is a better decision.

    Too much is made of depleting the system by trading away picks and prospects. Reinhardt for picks whose players may never make an impact and who will not be making it for the next three years is exactly the right play, even in a strong draft. Any picks in this draft and any prospects in the system should be in play to get the right balance on the NHL squad. once we have some veteran stability in the system, Next years picks and prospects can be developed properly in at their own pace because the Oilers are competitive without them.

    Also, please no more “trade Eberle AND Yakupov” scenarios without replacing their scoring on that side. Admittedly I like both those players but losing both, not just one, leaves us with Drasaitl on RW, followed by pylons and garbage bins, and only 2 scoring centers, who, if history tells us anything, will each be injured for half the season Because Oilers.

    Hamonic doesn’t wow me either, I was also thinking Fayne but physical and maybe faster. I’m not breaking the bank for that.

    A few threads ago I looked at Eberle’s number and his points per 60 which accounts for TOI in the previous 2 seasons had him 36th – second line production.

    It will not hurt the team to move him, far less than Nuge. I actually think Nuge would outscore Eberle at RW. Woodguy could score 40 riding shotgun for McDavid, but he probably shoots left so scrap that.

  99. AsiaOil says:

    Unless this is a sarcastic misfire – don’t your realize that this simply makes you look foolish and gullible? I teach critical thinking for a living and this type of mindless response would get an F from me. You look at all the information in any situation and maintain a skeptical perspective on all evidence.

    PS – my kids are vaccinated – there are clear and demonstrable risks involved but in my opinion these are out-weighed by individual and social benefits.

    pocession charge: It’s kind of like vaccinations.Who do these pro-vaccine nuts think they are fooling?When has a vaccine done anything but harm?The internet told me so.

  100. kinger_OIL says:

    B S,

    – Agree: the difference between D in the East, that move to the West is striking… see: Fayne, and frjohn’s/ricki’s posts a few days ago. There is a 15% drop-off from east to west

  101. vinotintazo says:

    B S: Hamonic strikes me as Fayne 2.0. Most of us agree that Fayne is an effective defenseman and would be an exceptional 3rd pairing for a little too much money (I know you see him as a lot more LT). But when the Oilers acquired him he was playing top pairing for a strong defensive team in the eastern conference.

    Fayne played along side Greene, but he was not top pair, he was playing around 18 min/g, where as Hamonic is playing around 24 min/g.

    I see Hamonic as a very good #2, on a great contract. is a better skater, more physical, has more offense than Fayne. Fayne is a #4 paired with Greene, other than that a #5.

    I would get Damers (#3) if he’s willing to come here.

  102. AsiaOil says:

    Water Fire,

    To paraphrase Slats – a fire hydrant could score 30 on McDavid’s wing. Look at Maroon – he looks like an all-star. But coach know the real story. Basically called him a bottom 6 player who can play up when needed last night and this is true.

    Eberle can play top line RW but he needs bigger two way players (particularly his center) to cover his obvious weaknesses. I want veteran two way forwards on CMD’s wing next year – not kids or one dimensional scorers.

  103. hunter1909 says:

    AsiaOil: PS – my kids are vaccinated – there are clear and demonstrable risks involved but in my opinion these are out-weighed by individual and social benefits.

    When I went to school we had a school nurse that would simply open the door to the classroom, the class stopped instantly and, much like the way the British hang someone, suddenly we were all disoriented to be too terrified as suddenly we were lined up to get a shot. Those were the times when most everyone got shots. There were serious diseases back then, like polio.

  104. Alpine says:

    russ99: I’d really love to see someone write an objective post on Klefbom’s strengths and weaknesses without leaning on the obviously skewed fancystat numbers that portray him as something he’s not.

    If by watching him play in the defensive zone without the puck you can equate him to anything more than league average, I’d say you’re blind.

    I watch him and see him good in the zone. I see Klefbom as being able to keep chances and shots down with good positioning, smart reads, and useful physical play if needed. He’s not a soft player. He gets involved. I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for if you can’t see these things with Klefbom.

    Someone like Nurse on the other hand gets too involved while not reading the play well enough. I thought he would more proficient defensively on entry to the league but he can’t see to think his way around the dzone yet, and his positioning isn’t quite good enough to properly engage forwards physically.

    I think your interpretation of defending might be weighted too heavily towards the body checking aspect, because from what I’ve watched that’s the only thing Nurse comes out ahead of Klefbom. Thing is, I could care less about about a player’s defending style as long as what he does is conducive to lowering chances and shots allowed. And I don’t care if that sounds fancy-stats based, because that’s pretty well what defense is, lowering the probability of being scored on.

  105. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Pouzar is going to kill me for this, but the Oilers should have gone with Ristolainen over Nurse. He was higher ranked, too.

    I love Nurse and he was flat out dominant in Penticton last fall, but as he should have been.

    But so far in the pros, the right-handed, puck-moving potential of Risto to go with his skating and size looks like a better bet than Nurse’s awesome skating, good shot, and mean streak on the left side.

    Of course 5 years at the very least to judge this one properly and I get that. But right now if you offered Risto for Hamonic, Snow would trip over himself to answer the phone with a “yes.” Would he do the same for Nurse?

    I don’t want to trade Nurse but I do think this team needs to move up the schedule on competing by a bit. This team has to be making progress before McDavid’s ELC runs out.

    Will Nurse be better than Hamonic in 3 years? Very likely. But I don’t think this team has 3 years.

    Also think Eberle is being severely underrated. Yes, he is flawed, but put him with a strong 2-way C and left wing and he would be fine. Pouliot-Backes-Eberle for example.

    Trading Eberle for Hamonic robs Peter to pay Paul.

    Trading Nurse for Hamonic pays Paul with future Paul+

    It will hurt, but is probably the lesser of the evils. A healthy Klefbom is a fixture in the top 4 next year and is a part of the improvement plan. Can’t trade him IMO.

  106. stush18 says:

    What about musil for Ryan sproul?

    Both are eligible for waivers next year, and sproul could fill in the RH weakness we have

  107. stush18 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I just wish ebs knew how to take a one timer. He scores 25 goals a year, but if he could onetime the puck he would reach 40. Him and mcdavid are essentially the key prices for the powerplay, and I place some of the lack of success on him.

  108. monsterbater says:

    My thoughts for fixing the D:

    – Trade Nurse, fayne, 2nd for Hamonic and lee/nelson. 1/2RD, PK
    – If our 1st is 3-5, trade pick and korpikoski to colorado for their 1st and tyson barrie. 1/2 RD, PP
    – Trade yak for severson (add picks as required). 3RD who can share more EV time with Barrie.
    – Draft one of top 3 D available in draft to replace Nurse

  109. kinger_OIL says:

    hunter1909,

    – Your just brought me to my days in elementary school in 70’s where we all lined up, like the whole school, and entered the nursing room one by one. Some of kids would scream or cry or sob as they got their shots with these big-as$ needles, while the rest of us waited in line…

    – That was a suppressed memory you just unlocked: thanks Hunter

    – Maybe I will feel better when I win that Oil Jersey after another win and a 71 point season and/or winning the Conner points prognostication

  110. Rondo says:

    AsiaOil,

    They picked Reinhart because they thought he could play in the NHL right away . The point is they were wrong and if they could have it back they would.

    The point is there is a tipping point for this you can’t say because x and Y don’t play in the NHL that it was a good trade.
    Dylan Strome Mitch Marner many others have not played but there is a point where cannot use your logic. For me #16 + #33 was a bad tradeoff

  111. B S says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    B S,

    Hamonic is a much better skater than Fayne. A lot quicker.

    He is more likely to be able to translate his game to the Pacific Division than Fayne because of his skating.

    As far as I could tell Fayne had two deficiencies that kept him from being effective in the west. One was his foot speed (Fayne has good maneuverability by eye, but can’t catch a turtle from behind) and the other was his physicality. After he came back from the minors Fayne has been more physical and this has allowed him more room to pass the puck up ice once he’s taken it. the top forwards in the West are large, tough, and typically drive to the net. Hamonic needs to not only be able to keep pace, but also box out top opposing forwards and win board battles to be a 1st pairing Dman.

    I do think he is a good player, but I’m concerned with penciling him into the top pairing in a weak western conference team, i.e. no support if he can’t keep up. I see a lot of the trade proposals assume that the oilers have forward depth. They don’t. 4 NHL centers (including Letestu) and just enough wingers to score in the NHL isn’t depth. Unless the Oil are getting that top pairing guy, who will anchor the defence for 25 minutes a night, I see the Eberle for Hamonic trade scenarios as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

  112. hunter1909 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I don’t want to trade Nurse but I do think this team needs to move up the schedule on competing by a bit. This team has to be making progress before McDavid’s ELC runs out.

    Something tells me McDavid is going to prefer having Nurse on the team whether he’s on an ELC or not.

    The mania for trading Nurse just like he’s some screwed up prospect that needs to be flushed asap seems to take things outside a little to fast…namely that he’s already perfectly capable of scaring the living crap out of 90% of the NHL.

    Fortunately for this hungover fan, Chiarelli has probably got no intention of losing Nurse. I mean, seriously, please name 5 players in the NHL who possess his potential skill set?

  113. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    hunter1909,

    Who said he was a failed prospect to be flushed? Not I.

    I laid out a painful, reluctant trade scenario where I believe the one piece to go the other way in a Hamonic trade that would hurt the least next year is Nurse.

    No more no less. If it seemed like I was ragging on Nurse, I am not. I will refer you to my write up on him for Bruce at CoH from Penticton to show you how much of a fan of his I am if you like.

    Get some lemon juice and soda!

  114. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    B S: As far as I could tell Fayne had two deficiencies that kept him from being effective in the west. One was his foot speed (Fayne has good maneuverability by eye, but can’t catch a turtle from behind) and the other was his physicality. After he came back from the minors Fayne has been more physical and this has allowed him more room to pass the puck up ice once he’s taken it. the top forwards in the West are large, tough, and typically drive to the net. Hamonic needs to not only be able to keep pace, but also box out top opposing forwards and win board battles to be a 1st pairing Dman.

    I do think he is a good player, but I’m concerned with penciling him into the top pairing in a weak western conference team, i.e. no support if he can’t keep up. I see a lot of the trade proposals assume that the oilers have forward depth. They don’t. 4 NHL centers (including Letestu) and just enough wingers to score in the NHL isn’t depth. Unless the Oil are getting that top pairing guy, who will anchor the defence for 25 minutes a night, I see the Eberle for Hamonic trade scenarios as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    I agree with you. See my next post above on that subject (robbing Peter to pay Paul).

    I see Hamonic as a top 4 guy, not a #1.
    Sekera-×××××
    Klefbom-Hamonic

    That second pair there should be the Vlasic-Braun shutdown pair.

    Now all we need is a “Burns” type to go with Sekera. Shattenkirk, Vatanen, Barrie etc.

    Does that make sense?

  115. LMHF#1 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Pouzar is going to kill me for this, but the Oilers should have gone with Ristolainen over Nurse. He was higher ranked, too.

    I love Nurse and he was flat out dominant in Penticton last fall, but as he should have been.

    But so far in the pros, the right-handed, puck-moving potential of Risto to go with his skating and size looks like a better bet than Nurse’s awesome skating, good shot, and mean streak on the left side.

    I remember going to the season ticket holders lunch before the Nurse pick. A bunch of barfle from the old boys about how this was turning around, a horrid presentation they were showing to try and attract new players, and MacTavish gushing about Nurse.

    I like the guy as a player, but he wasn’t the pick there. He was also chosen based on personality rather than play. Wrong.

  116. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    stush18:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I just wish ebs knew how to take a one timer. He scores 25 goals a year, but if he could onetime the puck he would reach 40. Him and mcdavid are essentially the key prices for the powerplay, and I place some of the lack of success on him.

    I actually don’t think McDavid and Eberle are a good fit. Call it blasphemy. So I agree with you somewhat. I think each has offensive skill on his own but the whole hasn’t been greater than the sum of its parts. McDavid can elevate lesser players (see Yakupov) and I still think they abandoned the Hall-McDavid combo too soon.

    Hall-McDavid-Yakupov
    Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle
    Maroon-Backes-Draisaitl

    Can’t be any worse than what they’ve been running this year.

  117. hunter1909 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    hunter1909,

    Who said he was a failed prospect to be flushed? Not I.

    I laid out a painful, reluctant trade scenario where I believe the one piece to go the other way in a Hamonic trade that would hurt the least next year is Nurse.

    No more no less. If it seemed like I was ragging on Nurse, I am not. I will refer you to my write up on him for Bruce at CoH from Penticton to show you how much of a fan of his I am if you like.

    Get some lemon juice and soda!

    Please forgive my using a response to you in order to rail against all and sundry.

    Still, who’s this great Travis Hamonic? He’s freaking injury prone to start with.

    29th place teams simply never trade away their talent, and succeed. Never.

    Never. Never. Never.

  118. GCW_69 says:

    Water Fire: Hamonic doesn’t wow me either, I was also thinking Fayne but physical and maybe faster. I’m not breaking the bank for that.

    A few threads ago I looked at Eberle’s number and his points per 60 which accounts for TOI in the previous 2 seasons had him 36th – second line production.

    It will not hurt the team to move him, far less than Nuge. I actually think Nuge would outscore Eberle at RW. Woodguy could score 40 riding shotgun for McDavid, but he probably shoots left so scrap that.

    Eberle is the 8th highest scoring RW since he entered the league, and the only one in the top 15 that includes a rookie season. From 2011/12 until now he has the 7th highest points per game of any right wing playing over 250 games during that period. His points per 60 of all right wingers also ranks 7th of those playing at least 250 games. If you go just the last three years, he is 15th in points per sixty of players playing more than 200 games. Since there are 30 first line right wingers, it seems to me Eberle is squarely in the first line category of proven right wing talent.

  119. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    hunter1909,

    Oh no worries. And I hear you. Seems like changes are coming though, and so I thought it worthwhile to discuss what would hurt the least.

  120. fifthcartel says:

    Mark Divver ‏@MarkDivver 3m3 minutes ago
    Hearing that undrafted @FriarsHockey junior goalie Nick Ellis is close to agreement on 2-year contract with @EdmontonOilers

    .936 in 36 games with Providence this season.

  121. rickithebear says:

    russ99: I’d really love to see someone write an objective post on Klefbom’s strengths and weaknesses without leaning on the obviously skewed fancystat numbers that portray him as something he’s not.

    If by watching him play in the defensive zone without the puck you can equate him to anything more than league average, I’d say you’re blind.

    Remember that study that looked at witnesses memory for the court system.
    might want See it !

    When watching D I like to see there foot pivot. and quickness of that foot leg turn when engaging an attacking opposition player.
    j. patrick was a Beauty

    I like to see the leverage abilty of a lengthened D in front of the net.

    it is often like watching a End/Tackle Or Guard/MLB engagenment in Football.

    I like o see if the D has the stick length and abilty to disrupt Lanes.

    A lot of the best young HSCA d in the game are 6’3″+ 210 LB +.

    I expect the D to Maintain a none perimeter position. To shelter tand defend the Critical scoring Space.

  122. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Fun fact: lockout year Taylor Hall had 16-34-50 in 45 games.
    Clavicle year McDavid has 16-32-48 in 44 games. 2 assists next game?

    Do we underrate Taylor Hall around here?

  123. B S says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I actually don’t think McDavid and Eberle are a good fit. Call it blasphemy. So I agree with you somewhat. I think each has offensive skill on his own but the whole hasn’t been greater than the sum of its parts. McDavid can elevate lesser players (see Yakupov) and I still think they abandoned the Hall-McDavid combo too soon.

    Hall-McDavid-Yakupov
    Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle
    Maroon-Backes-Draisaitl

    Can’t be any worse than what they’ve been running this year.

    I would love to see the stats on Hall Yakupov, because by eye Hall is one of the few who can keep track of where Yakupov is going. They seem to work well together and we know Yak likes playing with McDavid so it could be a good combination. I think the trick to Hall McD is just experience recognizing when the defense is keying on McDavid and getting it to an open Hall.

    Also one of the things Yak did when playing with McDavid that I think was underrated is he could hit him in stride with a forehand or back hand pass. McDavid is so fast that taking a pass without breaking stride usually puts him past the Dmen and gives a prime scoring chance.

    I will disagree with you on Nurse for Hamonic itself, just from my personal preference for Nurse’s skill set (intimidating, fast, with good puck skills), but that’s approximately the sort of Trade Edmonton should be looking at. and yes, I see him as a good, reliable 2nd pairing who can play up when injuries hit. Also, if Demers or someone of similar skill is the other Dman then I think a 3rd pairing of Davidson Fayne rounds out a competitive, but not championship defense. Playoff possible depending on just how consistent Davidson and Klefbom are.

  124. B S says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Fun fact: lockout year Taylor Hall had 16-34-50 in 45 games.
    Clavicle year McDavid has 16-32-48 in 44 games. 2 assists next game?

    Do we underrate Taylor Hall around here?

    I’m hoping 3 assists and 5 goals, so that all those jackasses who didn’t vote for him for the calder look as stupid as they are.

  125. hunter1909 says:

    Despite never being given a competent goalie/defence/veteran presence:

    Hall/Eberle/RNH/Yakupov/Nurse/Reinhart have all been expected as developing rookies to overcome everything; and now that they’ve predictably succeeded in becoming the scapegoats, just because some bloated asshole from Toronto named Bob Mackenzie writes an article.

  126. Centre of attention says:

    fifthcartel:
    Mark Divver ‏@MarkDivver3m3 minutes ago
    Hearing that undrafted @FriarsHockey junior goalie Nick Ellis is close to agreement on 2-year contract with @EdmontonOilers

    .936 in 36 games with Providence this season.

    Good news. Good numbers.

  127. leadfarmer says:

    AsiaOil:
    Unless this is a sarcastic misfire – don’t your realize that this simply makes you look foolish and gullible?I teach critical thinking for a living and this type of mindless response would get an F from me. You look at all the information in any situation and maintain a skeptical perspective on all evidence.

    PS – my kids are vaccinated – there are clear and demonstrable risks involved but in my opinion these are out-weighed by individual and social benefits.

    So you teach critical thinking by telling people how to think.

  128. AsiaOil says:

    It was a bad deal in your opinion but you have no basis this assessment other than your opinion. Studies of draft pick outcomes says otherwise. They paid in full. If you haven’t noticed – Griffin Reinhart is playing in the NHL since ASB. He’s doing just fine while the magic beans we traded remain magic beans.

    Rondo:
    AsiaOil,

    They picked Reinhart because they thought he could play in the NHL right away .The point is they were wrong and if they could have it back theywould.

    The point is there is a tipping point for this you can’t say because x and Y don’t play in the NHL thatit was a good trade.
    Dylan Strome Mitch Marner many others have not played but there is a point where cannot use your logic. For me #16 + #33 was a bad tradeoff

  129. Adam Wu says:

    russ99: I’d really love to see someone write an objective post on Klefbom’s strengths and weaknesses without leaning on the obviously skewed fancystat numbers that portray him as something he’s not.

    If by watching him play in the defensive zone without the puck you can equate him to anything more than league average, I’d say you’re blind.

    Nothing that relies of watching with human eyes and judging with human minds can ever be objective.

    The whole reason we as a species have used and benefitted from the use of stats is because they ARE blind. Blind to the cognitive biases that plague our imperfect, evolved brains.

  130. Chachi says:

    Slava Malamud (https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud) does seem to be a good source of info on the Russian U18 drug scandal. Seems like those kids were regularly dosed with meldonium by their coaching staff. Pretty horrible if true. I make sure to put my tinfoil hat on first though before reading anything on the internet, especially anything connected to mainstream media. Of course this requires me to take off my other tinfoil hat which blocks out wifi signals and microwave messages from spy satellites, but we must sacrifice to stay informed.

  131. Ducey says:

    fifthcartel:
    Mark Divver ‏@MarkDivver3m3 minutes ago
    Hearing that undrafted @FriarsHockey junior goalie Nick Ellis is close to agreement on 2-year contract with @EdmontonOilers

    .936 in 36 games with Providence this season.

    Hopefully its this guy
    http://wpri.com/2016/01/10/junior-ellis-shines-in-starring-role-with-pc-hockey/

    Not this guy
    http://nickellis.se/gigs-events/

    Looks like this was his first chance to play any meaningful minutes in college and that he was a junior this last year. Hockey db says he is 6’1″ which might be a bit small, but with goalies, who the heck knows?

    More the better. And another reason the Oilers should not waste picks on goalies.

  132. tsg says:

    A few threads ago I looked at Eberle’s number and his points per 60 which accounts for TOI in the previous 2 seasons had him 36th – second line production.

    score 40 riding shotgun for McDavid, but he probably shoots left so scrap that.

    Was that just for RW? There are 90 first line players in the NHL. Those numbers would put him close to the top third and within the top half of first line players in the NHL.

  133. Woodguy says:

    Andy Strickland
    ‏@andystrickland
    #Providence Goalie Nick Ellis has agreed to a 2 yr entry level deal with the Edmonton #Oilers starting next season #NHL

    Brossoit looks like he’s the back up next year.

    Not sure if I agree with that.

  134. Centre of attention says:

    Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland · 3m3 minutes ago

    #Providence Goalie Nick Ellis has agreed to a 2 yr entry level deal with the Edmonton #Oilers starting next season #NHL

  135. B S says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I agree with you. See my next post above on that subject (robbing Peter to pay Paul).

    I see Hamonic as a top 4 guy, not a #1.
    Sekera-×××××
    Klefbom-Hamonic

    That second pair there should be the Vlasic-Braun shutdown pair.

    Now all we need is a “Burns” type to go with Sekera. Shattenkirk, Vatanen, Barrie etc.

    Does that make sense?

    I think we’re on the same page as to what Hamonic is, I posted more to generally question the prices others have posted for him. If he’s going to be a 2nd pairing Dman, then if he costs an experienced top 10 in the league RW I don’t see how the team is further ahead. I think that is the Oilers problem though. stud #1 dmen cost McDavid, and no-one will trade them for less than that (see Hall OEL discussions from forever and always).

    A lesser defenceman just doesn’t replace the production of a top line forward. GA goes down, but so does GF. A bottom 6 forward line that can score, without giving up much would go a long way to fixing this team. a competent defence would help to, but a good defence with no scoring forwards is still going to lose and McDavid can only be on for ~20 min./game.

  136. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Woodguy,

    Remember that “disagreement” we had about assuming him as backup? Haha. I kid.

    I agree they should have at least another option.

  137. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy:
    Andy Strickland
    ‏@andystrickland
    #Providence Goalie Nick Ellis has agreed to a 2 yr entry level deal with theEdmonton #Oilers starting next season #NHL

    Brossoit looks like he’s the back up next year.

    Not sure if I agree with that.

    Well we better hope Talbot is healthy then. I have very little confidence in Brossoit to play more than 15 games

  138. Jaxon says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Jaxon,

    Agree 100%.CLB is the most likely suitor for Korps, and selling them Jones might net a nice return for us.

    Jones is a good prospect, but realistically he’s the third best D we drafted last year in the later rounds, and #4 (Marino) seems like a decent pick too.

    Not to mention he’s currently about 12th or 13th on the Left-hand D depth chart (and I’m not exaggerating and I’m not counting Nikitin, Ference or Pardy!)

  139. vinotintazo says:

    Woodguy:
    Andy Strickland
    ‏@andystrickland
    #Providence Goalie Nick Ellis has agreed to a 2 yr entry level deal with theEdmonton #Oilers starting next season #NHL

    Brossoit looks like he’s the back up next year.

    Not sure if I agree with that.

    they could have brossoit as the AHL starter and Ellis as the back up, down in Bakersfield.

    Condors cannot buy a save this season, they keep losing in OT.

  140. Ducey says:

    Woodguy:
    Andy Strickland
    ‏@andystrickland
    #Providence Goalie Nick Ellis has agreed to a 2 yr entry level deal with theEdmonton #Oilers starting next season #NHL

    Brossoit looks like he’s the back up next year.

    Not sure if I agree with that.

    Why do you say that?

    Couldn’t it be Broissoit #1 and Ellis #2 in BAK?

    Ellis had a .936 save %, but I don’t see a goalie in Div I that had one below .920 http://www.uscho.com/stats/overall/division-i-men/2015-2016/

    They could easily start him in the ECHL as well.

  141. stush18 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I actually don’t think McDavid and Eberle are a good fit. Call it blasphemy. So I agree with you somewhat. I think each has offensive skill on his own but the whole hasn’t been greater than the sum of its parts. McDavid can elevate lesser players (see Yakupov) and I still think they abandoned the Hall-McDavid combo too soon.

    Hall-McDavid-Yakupov
    Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle
    Maroon-Backes-Draisaitl

    Can’t be any worse than what they’ve been running this year.

    I think they are both good fits with anyone offensively because of their hockey iq. I just think they are better fits for mcdavid

    Also I don’t think backed will be willing to come here

  142. Jaxon says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    I’d like to see them sign Jason Demers if they can get him at a somewhat reaosnable price (under $5M?), hold onto Fayne for the time being, sign Gryba to a cheap 1 year deal again, then…
    Trade Caleb Jones & Korpikoski to CBJ for Paliotta & Rychel
    Trade Davidson & Moroz (or other fwd prospect) to BUF for Pysyk & Bailey (or Baptiste)
    If Yakupov has to go then maybe trade Yakupov with Musil (or Oesterle or Simpson) to WSH for Madison Bowey & Riley Barber. I know this would drive some fans crazy as not enough return, but both Bowey and Barber have promise and especially Bowey could prove to be the exact player EDM needs.

    That would even out the LD RD imbalance and have some great prospects that might save the Oilers when they are up against the cap.

  143. fifthcartel says:

    This probably means neither Bouchard or Nagelvoort will be signed.

  144. sliderule says:

    hunter1909,
    Most of us were scared shitless.

    I had two kids in my grade two class die of polio.

    In grade six a girl I was fond of spent two years on leg braces.

    Schools would close over the fear.

    Every one has it so good today and don’t really appreciate it

  145. Woodguy says:

    vinotintazo: they could have brossoit as the AHL starter and Ellis as the back up, down in Bakersfield.

    Condors cannot buy a save this season, they keep losing in OT.

    Eetu Laurikainen is under contract as well.

    I have seen suggestions from such people as Guy Flaming that Ellis starts in the ECHL.

    That would be good.

    Sign someone like Enroth for NHL back up, Brossoit & Laurikainen in Bakersfield and Ellis in the ECHL.

  146. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    stush18: I think they are both good fits with anyone offensively because of their hockey iq. I just think they are better fits for mcdavid

    Also I don’t think backed will be willing to come here

    Maybe we can ask Doug Weight to talk to him about Edmonton and convince him. 😉

  147. VanIsleOil says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    tapper,

    I get that.I understand the stat is very simplistic and isn’t representative.But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide some insight.

    I also understand you can point to instances where bad calls have been made, or calls weren’t made that should have been.Happens all the time.

    If the Oilers are being targeted, then the refs are doing an impressive job of doing it in a subtle enough way that it doesn’t push the Oilers +/- in PIMS to the fringes, they are still comfortably near the center.It’s also impressive that they’ve managed to penalize the kings so heavily dispite being (apparently) biased in their favour, given that their penalty diferential is more than 100 worse than the Oil.If they are making sure to do that during inconsequential times, they are doing a heck of a job, because that’s got to be a tough thing to accomplish, especially given that they’d need to coordinate between different groups of officials working different games, and they’d have to manage to keep every one of them from spilling the beans.

    I agree parsing the data as you’ve suggested would be more effective.It would also be really time consuming.If someone wants to do it and show me I’ll give it a fair shake.

    In the meantime I only know 3 things.

    1. The oilers PIM +/- is in the range of middle of the pack
    2. The team often referenced as benefiting the most from calls actually benefits the second least from calls based on the numbers in front of me.
    3.Most importantly, the people that are complaining about the officiating as it relates to the Oilers are all cheering for the Oilers.

    That last point strikes me as weird because I’m also a fan of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, and a lot of Hurricanes fans can make pretty strong cases that the refs are biased against that team too.It’s crazy that the two teams I cheer for are both subject to the same bias.Or they aren’t.

    Agree totally , don’t understand why so many fans feel our Oilers are getting screwed by the refs. Guess a decade of misery with the team makes fans look for villains or reasons to help lessen the blow of the tidal wave of losses. Must be a conspiracy among the entire brotherhood of referees for the past few years.
    When we start winning,I suspect the moaning regarding the refs will subside dramatically,imagine that.

  148. Магия 10 says:

    VanIsleOil: When we start winning,I suspect the moaning regarding the refs will subside dramatically,imagine that.

    They don’t pick on the Oilers. They only favour winning veteran media stars over losing young underrated players. Now how would that play out when the refs slum through Edmonton?

  149. B S says:

    VanIsleOil,

    The problem isn’t just a matter of penalty differential. The Oilers were shorthanded 6th most often at home, 26th most on the road, 13 most often overall, 26th in power play opportunities for overall, but they are/were a small skilled team. they shouldn’t be taking very many penalties overall, yet every year they’re in the top half for penalty minutes and bottom half for pp opportunities.

    What I think Rex was looking to do is determine whether it’s a matter of teams taking more liberties (remember low pp opportunites; I prefer opportunities over pp time, as the shitty pp makes it look like there was more time than for other teams), than they Oilers players were allowed. It’s the non-calls that could be influencing the game. holds and hooks and interferences that impede an oilers player but don’t get called, vs Oilers not using those tactics as much because they always get called for it. That isn’t something that is going to show up in the special teams stats.

  150. Rondo says:

    AsiaOil,

    Your wrong, Reinhart is not the player Chia expected.

  151. AsiaOil says:

    Rondo:
    AsiaOil,

    Your wrong, Reinhart is not theplayer Chia expected.

    Again based on what – other than your opinion of course? That will get you pretty much zero around here without a whole lot of history that builds credibility. But I’ve asked three times already and don’t expect an answer.

  152. Rondo says:

    AsiaOil,

    Didn’t know you had credibility.

  153. Professor Q says:

    hunter1909: Something tells me McDavid is going to prefer having Nurse on the team whether he’s on an ELC or not.

    The mania for trading Nurse just like he’s some screwed up prospect that needs to be flushed asap seems to take things outside a little to fast…namely that he’s already perfectly capable of scaring the living crap out of 90% of the NHL.

    Fortunately for this hungover fan, Chiarelli has probably got no intention of losing Nurse. I mean, seriously, please name 5 players in the NHL who possess his potential skill set?

    This reminds me of right after Edmonton drafted Nurse, and the MSM was lambasting him for not making Team Canada etc. etc. poor work ethic, raw skill, not good skating, maturity concerns.

    That Team Canada sucked, and specifically more so in the defensive aspects.

    Then Nurse lights up the Soo (Sault?) as captain and almost goes the distance, showing that yes, he should have been picked for Team Canada, and shutting up the ‘haters’, as they say.

    Hopefully he pulls a similar improvement next year.

  154. highgloveside says:

    The Oilers droppedtheir goal differentail by 41 goals thus far, if they improve by 41 next yer they will be at break even. Every team at break even or above in the playoffs. Only Detroit (-12) is in a playoff position with a negative. Not saying the Oilers will make the playoffs but if they make the same progress on goal differential again, they will be in the hunt

  155. JimmyV1965 says:

    sliderule,

    These anti vaccine people remind me of the global warming fanatics. They are so far removed from the pain and suffering and hardships society faced even 50 years ago that they no longer appreciate the benefits of scientific advances. One group doesn’t understand how devastating diseases were. The other group doesn’t understand how much prosperity fossil fuels have created.

  156. AsiaOil says:

    JimmyV1965:
    sliderule,

    These anti vaccine people remind me of the globalwarming fanatics. They are so far removed from the pain and suffering and hardships society faced even 50 years ago that they no longer appreciate the benefits of scientific advances.One group doesn’t understand how devastatingdiseases were. The other group doesn’t understand how much prosperity fossil fuels have created.

    Agree with that – but like I said before – there are demonstrable risks involved. I am a scientist and my kids are vaccinated – and in my opinion the small risks are out-weighed by individual and social benefits. But you should never, ever, discount the genuine concern of a parent who thinks that harm may be done to their child, and it matters not if this concern is science based or emotional. Much of the vitriol in this debate stems from one group of people telling another group that they are ignorant and do not have the right to decide what is best for their kids. You will never win that kind of debate with a parent. Consensus is likely impossible but a bit of sensitivity and understanding of this dynamic would go miles toward at least having a civilized debate on the issue.

  157. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    JimmyV1965,

    That’s one way of looking at it.

    Great blog. Some of the best mind in hockey fandom, no doubt.

    2 things suck.

    a) The invariable objectification of women that accompanies far too many of Lowetide’s often excellent articles;

    b) The thankfully infrequent political turns. Clearly not climate science, nor economics, is anything you know much about.

    Stick on the ice.

  158. B S says:

    AsiaOil,

    Thing is, the pro-vaxxers are just fighting for what’s safest for THEIR kids. a bunch of diseased rugrats running around spreading mutated measles strains (measles allowed to spread among people WILL mutate) is a serious problem for all the other parents too so the anti-vaxxers don’t even have a moral foot to stand on. Science is the search for the truth, and the truth doesn’t give a shit about public opinion or money. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about vaccinations, climate change, or whether Taylor Hall helps win hockey games.

    Note: I’m not arguing science as the end all be all of how to live, or whether economics or morality are necessary when considering aspects of life, from economic policies to hockey, just that the consideration of consequences should be based on real evidence not debunked hearsay.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca