BREAKING THE WAND

I am seeing more and more discussion about trading Darnell Nurse. I don’t see it. Nurse at 20 certainly has value, but the kind of team Peter Chiarelli is going to build here is a perfect fit for the young defender’s style. After a difficult rookie season, why are so many Oilers fans willing to give up on the youngster?

I think people are probably projecting his rookie season out into the future as a fair representation of the player. I suspect that is unwise.

I stated last summer that it would have been very difficult to keep Nurse on the farm all year. We knew the Oilers were badly outclassed on defense, and this season has been a lot about waiting for Peter Chiarelli (and Todd McLellan) to see what we have seen for a decade. I would argue that Nurse was a victim of that, as his early success caused McLellan to elevate the rookie to the Sekera pairing—where it all fell apart.

DARNELL NURSE SPLITS

NURSE SPLITS

We have talked about this previously, but I do think it bears repeating since there are verbal shots headed at Nurse every hour on the hour. Look, math doesn’t care one way or another, and I am taking a knife to a gunfight when it comes to arguing these numbers (most if not all of you have better command of the numbers). That said, can we agree those 11 games at the beginning of his career look pretty good? Can we further agree that moving Nurse up the depth chart—and leaving him there—is not the fault of the player? I am often surprised by how quickly logic and reason flees the math set.

We can argue about who is best sent away, and maybe it is Darnell Nurse. I don’t think that taking his rookie season as a reflection of his true (and eventual) ability is accurate or fair. I would like to see another season of Darnell, to see if he can get back to those first 11 games. I expect we will see him as an Oiler in 2016-17.

BREAKING THE WAND

mact shot

I didn’t talk about it yesterday but the goodbye to Rexall (a fantastic event) not including Craig MacTavish and Kelly Buchberger is bizarre on the face of it. Now, I am in no way saying that the Oilers or Peter Chiarelli or Bob Nicholson sent away two members of Stanley teams as punishment. I am saying there is something about this story that implies fracture. There is no way for me to say this without sounding like I know more than I do, but there is something about this situation that doesn’t fit the script.

THE LIST

People keep chasing this scenario, but I return to the things logic and reason give us if we sit down and think about it. I assume Peter Chiarelli has a list of defensemen—Erik Karlsson, PK Subban, Alex Pietrangelo, Sami Vatanen—and at some point the ask from the other side will be deemed acceptable. So, in that way, Taylor Hall is available but only if one of the truly spectacular defensemen in the league is available. Fair? I mean, if the Habs make Subban available, much of what we have talked about this spring is moot, right?

If Montreal does the unthinkable, I do not think Hall would be the target (Max Pacioretty is a reasonable comp for Hall as a player). I do believe one of the C’s—Nuge, Leon—could be a target and you would think a massive deal would be required. I honestly do not see this happening, but it isn’t like I was churning out ‘Pronger is on his way to Edmonton’ posts in 2005.

RocknRolla

SORRY

In the comments section over the last year or so, the word ‘sorry’ has been appearing more and more. As someone who went to grade school in the 1960s, when I read the word it puts me in a certain frame of mind. ”Sorry, I was mistaken in our previous conversation and my aggressiveness during that chat makes me feel a fool” is what my brain is preparing to read. I have come to realize that the modern meaning of sorry is ”look stupid, get your head out of your ass and listen to my brilliance” although it has taken me time to reach this conclusion. For those who use the word in the modern sense: Sorry, it doesn’t make your point of view any more relevant, and it suggests to me you may not actually be sorry (traditional sense) ever, since you have no use for the word as I use it. No real point to this paragraph. Sorry.

SORRY, NICK ELLIS

One of the things we all like is certainty. If something happens and we are unable to corral it, it makes us nervous or uncomfortable. Because of that part of human nature, we often slot people into places they don’t really belong—all in the name of certainty and peace of mind.

Take Nick Ellis, the Oilers newest goalie. I have read online that he will be the Oilers backup this fall, and that he is doomed to spend his days in the ECHL. This can only be the conclusion of a person who simply cannot go to bed at night without having settled on an uncertainty.

I am a Dad, so spend a lot of time keeping options open for my kids. They don’t know what they don’t know, but some day they will know what they know and know what they don’t know and I will be less worried about them. I have no idea who Nick Ellis is, but if he asked me this would be my advice: Come to camp focused and ready, work every minute of every practice like it is your last one, and no matter where they send you treat the assignment as temporary. Embrace uncertainty and beat the living hell out of every challenge that comes your way. And whatever you do, never listen to someone who has decided what you are within 20 minutes of hearing your name and reading your backstory.

Every kid deserves to make his own way. Every damn one of them.

hurdle gif

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Friday! At 10 this morning, TSN1260.

  • Steve Lansky, BigMouthSports. We will discuss the Oilers future, and I have some Harold Ballard questions from you, for him.
  • Dean Millard, TSN1260. Ernie Els made me feel so good about my golf game yesterday, we will talk Masters with the best golfer I know.
  • Matt Iwanyk, TSN1260. Report cards for Chiarelli/McLellan, plus the MacT story.
  • Chris Peters, CBS Sports. Frozen four and we will talk about this Ellis fellow.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

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166 Responses to "BREAKING THE WAND"

  1. John Chambers says:

    No reason to trade Darnell. I doubt the return at this point is impressive and he’ll be a value contract during his bridge.

    Give him a veteran partner who can skate the puck out and Darnell will find his niche boxing out the front of the net.

  2. supernova says:

    Spam Alert

    Edition 3 in a search for RH D for the oilers.

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2016/04/13545/

    3 more D that could be useful to add to the series

  3. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Every kid deserves to make his own way. Every damn one of them.

    Good man.

    One of the things that makes effective GMing in the NHL so darn hard is that your most important position is also, by a long shot, your most random. Even with all of our advances in modern scouting, it’s still super common for elite goaltending to come out of the blue. Lundquist, Rinne, Quick, Holtby, Bishop, Talbot all guys drafted in the 3rd round or later (or not drafted) just off the top of my head.

    At the same time, nothing makes you look like a good coach or a good GM quite like effective goaltending. The Habs can attest to that. It’s got to be incredibly frustrating for managers.

    A good GM should never stop trying to find the next hidden gem, and that means throwing darts just like this one. Welcome to the team kid, I wish you well, I’ll check back in on you in a couple of years. Enjoy your time in pro hockey, whatever that looks like.

  4. Unwashed Oilfan says:

    For those of you looking for a little more on Jenneke’s “training”, a great video to learn more. You’re welcome!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2r-oAAeO0Q

  5. leadfarmer says:

    I agree, it doesn’t matter where the GM puts you at the start of the season. What matters is you take that job, work hard, and you will get noticed and get a better assignment. Rinse and repeat.

    Now how many arguments did I have at the start of this year about keeping Nurse in the Ahl this year. Now that he showed what was expected, that he isn’t ready, people are ready to give up on him.

  6. PhrankLee says:

    I think you nailed it, LT. Any trade involving Hall not bringing back one of the top 4 D in the League is folly and not even worth defending.

    Any trade involving Nurse would be so shortsighted the mind boggles. I wouldn’t engage anyone who promoted that trade either.

    You appear to be correct with your conclusions regarding the word sorry. It’s a backhanded courtesy. And an over used convention at this point. Sorry if that hurt anyone’s feelings… (like that, right?)

    The GD isn’t where I wanted it and the points are South of .500 a little more than I wanted.

    Chiarelli must let slip loose the dogs of war this summer. Or something literary and deep like to that effect.

  7. Jethro Tull says:

    Rock n’ Rolla!

    You want to give some people the Archie slap, LT? A little salty this morning, eh! Kind of tarred a lot of people with the same brush, which I’ve never been cool with.

    I take the modern ‘sorry’ as “I’m going to disagree with you, but can we still be friends?”

    I don’t see too many people here “giving up on Nurse”. More like they recognise that he’s a high end prospect, and as such will hold value. Would I like to fix this team without any trades, whilst keeping under the cap? Sure.

    We need Nurse from three years in the future if this team is to progress.

    It is possible to recognise a player’s ability, to like him, but still accept that someone is on the chopping block. If you can suggest a scenario where we get Hamonic, Demers, #1 RHD, fix the bottom six and add a back-up goalie whilst keeping depth and development in Bakersfield WITHOUT trading Nurse, Eberle, or Nuge or Hall or any player of value, then I’m all ears.

    At some point, we have to cash in some blue chips and actually enjoy the transition from potentially a good team, one game out of three, to actually a good team, three games out of three.

    When we fall in love with our roster, boy, do we fall hard. And this is a bottom of the league roster.

    And I absolutely refuse to say sorry. Many apologies.

  8. Aitch says:

    Another reason to not trade Darnell… based on the expansion draft criteria, he wouldn’t have to be protected as he will only be completing his second pro year. (Of course, that may also increase his worth on the market, but that should mean more to the Oilers who are trying to build a core.)

  9. Ducey says:

    No surprise that I am agreed on keeping Nurse. The notion that his numbers this year set his career trajectory is crazy.

    Not agreed on MacT and Bucky being “sent away.” Before such an allegation is made we should have some proof. There is none. The only evidence we have is from Matheson who reports they had to go to the frozen four to “scout” (ie. recruit) one of the top NCAA free agents. No doubt they have been in on him for some time. He says:

    •Noticeable by their absence at the Rexall closing: Craig MacTavish and Kelly Buchberger, but only because they flew to Tampa Wednesday morning to scout the NCAA Frozen Four, where they’re most assuredly looking at U of North Dakota free-agent D Troy Stecher, a terrific puck-mover. The Oilers pushed hard to try and sign Yale goalie Alex Lyon, who was on Team USA at the world championship last spring, but he signed in Philly. The Oilers prospect goalie cupboard is almost bare.

    I for one am happy they are focused on building the prospect pool rather than singing Auld Lang Syne.

  10. Jethro Tull says:

    PhrankLee: Chiarelli must let slip loose the dogs of war this summer.

    Cry Havoc!

  11. Diesel says:

    I don’t imagine PC and TM are as nervous about Nurse as many around the web seem to be. They knew he wasn’t ready. That’s why he was sent down. Only necessity was cause for recourse.

    Nurse gave them exactly what they already knew they had. A raw rookie with an impressively rare range of skills and intensity.

    In terms of usage, he was handled the way any pragmatic coach would. “If he has to be here, let’s see what he can really do”. Hence the test drive on the top pairing for enough games to let all variables settle out; take note, and adjust accordingly.

    Give the kid and the coach some slack.

  12. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Speaking of Mr. Nurse has there been any confirmation or news about his injury since he left the game?

  13. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    I don’t know how I feel about trading Nurse. It would sting but there are reasonable arguments in favor of it.

    It won’t happen though. The optics are too poor for a GM coming off a season like this one. The general consensus amongst casual fans and the MSM is that the Oilers are bad because they can be easily pushed around and are bad defensively. Nurse is in actuality the toughest player on the team and is perceived as having elite level pure-defensive potential, the likes of which this team hasn’t had in years.

    Not saying that is or is not the case. Saying that’s the perception and in matters like this perception often trumps reality.

    Nurse also won’t be in the AHL to start the year. He’s in the top 6. They’ve committed to that at this point, unequivocally. Sending him to the AHL is an admission of failure orders of magnitude greater than sending Reinhart down. Not going to happen.

    Best thing we can do for Nurse is get him a good partner and play him the correct minutes.

    And pray.

  14. JimmyV1965 says:

    Trading Nurse would be a HUGE mistake. Sure he looks awful right now, but he’s playing way over his head. Very few players posses his combo of size, speed and skill. What he lacks is experience and knowledge. I’ve always though Nurse would take a bit of time to develop because he seems like an instinctual player, rather than a cerebral player. Expectations are simply too high for this guy. Any offence we get from Nurse is a bonus. What he will be is a devastating defender who puts the rest of God into players entering our zone.

  15. meanashell11 says:

    Have not had time to check the entire internet, has there been any statement regarding Nurse’s injury?

    Just saw question was asked above while I was typing!

  16. SumOil says:

    So we shouldn’t trade Klefbom, we shouldn’t trade 1st rounder, we shouldn’t trade Eberle. Who should we trade to acquire that RhD for that balance?

  17. Jethro Tull says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!:
    Speaking of Mr. Nurse has there been any confirmation or news about his injury since he left the game?

    It’s a pubis thing.

  18. frjohnk says:

    In Darnells first 41 games, he started out as a 3rd pairing for about 10 games, and then got moved up to play with Sekera and Schutlz. He was drowning at that point.

    But since then, the coaching staff have backed off on his TOI and his level of competition has gone down. Since then some of the numbers are not that bad for a rookie.

    TOI/Gm
    First 41 games 18.1
    Last 27 games 15.6

    CF%
    First 41 games 45.1%
    Last 27 games 46.1%

    High Scoring Chance+/-
    First 41 games -61
    Last 27 games -4

    HSCF%
    First 41 games 39%
    Last 27 games 48.9%

    Scoring Chance+/-
    First 41 games -67
    Last 27 games -6

    Scoring Chance%
    First 41 games 45.1%
    Last 27 games 49.2%

    I like using individual high scoring chances and individual scoring chances as a metric to measure offensive capability as well.

    % Nurse contributed to High Scoring Chance For on ice differential ( Dmen league average is 4%)
    First 41 games 4.3%
    Last 27 games 11.3%

    % Nurse contributed to Scoring Chance For on ice differential ( Dmen league average is 11.3%)
    First 41 games 11.4%
    Last 27 games 18%

    Darnell does not have the points to show for it, but he is getting to the areas with the puck many more times than most other Dmen in the league. And actually in the last 27 games, the individual high scoring and scoring chance events he has created are both in the top 10 in the league.

    He wont be a number 1 offensive stud, but once he develops a shot ( and he will ) and the game slows down for him ( it will) he will be a nice piece moving forward.

  19. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Rock n’ Rolla!

    You want to give some people the Archie slap, LT?A little salty this morning, eh!Kind of tarred a lot of people with the same brush, which I’ve never been cool with.

    I take the modern ‘sorry’ as “I’m going to disagree with you, but can we still be friends?”

    I don’t see too many people here “giving up on Nurse”.More like they recognise that he’s a high end prospect, and as such will hold value.Would I like to fix this team without any trades, whilst keeping under the cap?Sure.

    We need Nurse from three years in the future if this team is to progress.

    It is possible to recognise a player’s ability, to like him, but still accept that someone is on the chopping block.If you can suggest a scenario where we get Hamonic, Demers, #1 RHD, fix the bottom six and add a back-up goalie whilst keeping depth and development in Bakersfield WITHOUT trading Nurse, Eberle, or Nuge or Hall or any player of value, then I’m all ears.

    At some point, we have to cash in some blue chips and actually enjoy the transition from potentially a good team, one game out of three, to actually a good team, three games out of three.

    When we fall in love with our roster, boy, do we fall hard.And this is a bottom of the league roster.

    And I absolutely refuse to say sorry.Many apologies.

    Your point on Nurse seems closer to what people were saying. Very few were saying he has maxed out his potential, just that the entire cluster of young D is left-handed and if the Islanders want a D coming back for Hamonic and everyone is dead set against trading Klefbom then what do you do? Snow isn’t going to want Reinhart back.

    So the consideration was would you, reluctantly, trade Nurse or not knowing full well he would be better than Hamonic in 3 years. Would you do it to make sure to improve the team enough that McDavid decides to stay long-term and not risk another bottom of the league finish.

    I didn’t see people saying “trade that bum.” In fact I think the majority said they wouldn’t trade him at all. Which is perfectly understandable.

  20. Jethro Tull says:

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/03/14/technology/bits-xkcd1/bits-xkcd1-tmagArticle.png

    “This can only be the conclusion of a person who simply cannot go to bed at night without having settled on an uncertainty.”

  21. PhrankLee says:

    Jethro Tull: Cry Havoc!

    I was just wondering aloud.

  22. slopitch says:

    It was back in 2014, that Willis wrote about what Klefbom needs to do to stick with the Oilers. That was his 4th season after the draft. Nurse is on draft + 4 next year. I think it will be a good one.

    There were also some good quotes about how Klefbom went down that year for 10 games (I think) and how he thought it was good for him. I’ll see if I can dig them up. If Nurse goes down I suspect it would only before 10 games. I would be happy with that since it means Chai added 2 NHL dmen. Nurse looks worse then he is because he outplayed several guys and the Oilers dont have the depth to push him down. Yet when he gets here he’s over his head (expected) because of the quality of competition he’s playing and the minutes. Hard to fault him so far IMO.

  23. JimmyV1965 says:

    Hey LT. I asked this question yesterday and I’m hoping to get a response. Is there some concern about Fowler in Anaheim? I always thought he would be untouchable in Anaheim. Does he have some major warts to his game

  24. PhrankLee says:

    Jethro Tull: Cry Havoc!

    Or Baker Street Musing, as it were.

  25. Gret99zky says:

    “Can we further agree that moving Nurse up the depth chart—and leaving him there—is not the fault of the player?”

    Agree. It’s not the player.

    However, we can’t blame the GM or coach because:
    a) they are not going anywhere.
    b) they are bonafide.
    c) they are seeing what they have.

    So there is no blame.

    It may have been helpful to sign a veteran free agent D or just play NN the whole year rather than stunt Darnell’s growth by letting him get his teeth kicked in night after night.

    Guess we’ll see how much damage was done to #25.

  26. GCW_69 says:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/need-redefine-makes-good-offensive-player/

    This is depressing. In 2005/06 the NHL had 63 players crack the 30 goal plateau, or more than two per team This season it looks like 25 will break that threshold this season, less than one per team. That’s a crazy drop in production.

    It also means the NHL needs to be more aggressive in changing the game to drive more offence. Goals matter. They get people in the stands out of their seats and people at home to tune in. The younger generation that sees scoring occur at a much higher rate in other sports are going to be more entertained by those sports.

    Filpovic notes, “One pervasive argument is that we can’t fundamentally make changes to the game because it’s a) always been played a certain way and b) would impact our ability to compare this generation’s numbers with those from the past. The problem with that rationale is it ignores the fact that the product already barely resembles the one from the ‘80s and ‘90s.”

    He’s right. This is not the game those great oilers teams played, nor that of the high flying Habs.

    Peter Tessier wrote a blog piece where he notes the NFL, the world’s best run sports league, “addressed something awhile ago that has helped the game immensely when they turned it into a passing league. A small but significant rule change about they way receivers can be covered from the line of scrimmage made a huge impact to the way the game was played. ”

    The NFL was for a long time a league driven by running the ball. But it didn’t make for great t.v. or suit today’s average fan that expects action to happen at a faster pace. They had the courage to make a change fundamental to the way the game is played to create a more compelling product.

    That’s why we should not be quick to dismiss those that advocate for bigger nets. Mike Babcock, Jerome Iginla, Ken Dryden and many others have argued for this change. Maybe now is the time to listen?

    Or, if the NHL wants to find its NFL style rule change to shift the powers back to offence, how about eliminating offside or allowing one player to enter ahead of the puck? Think of all the possessions that die on the lead player being offside by inches. Those would all become zone entries. Think about how dump ins would change if one or more attacking players can hit the line at full speed without worrying about offside, or maybe already be behind the defenders? The balance of power should shift back to offence.

    The NHL needs to do something, and needs to recognize that fundamental change, like the NFL did, is not a bad thing. They also need to recognize that not changing anything is, in effect, changing the game anyway. All we’re arguing about is the nature of the change. Do we want a game based on defence or offence?

    My vote is for offence.

  27. kinger_OIL says:

    – Nice Post LT! As a father of a 6 year old, I liked your observation about keeping options open for your kids for as long as you can…

    – FRJOHNK says: “He wont be a number 1 offensive stud, but once he develops a shot (and he will) and the game slows down for him ( it will) he will be a nice piece moving forward.”

    – We won’t know for a few years if your assessement proves correct, but assume it’s reasonable. That doesn’t make Nurse untradeable. If the ask for an actual D who right now fits your description is Nurse+, I don’t see how this team doesn’t do that.

    – Now there are other ways that might be better to get a D with a “shot, whose game has already slowed down, and is currently a nice piece”, but to me Nurse isn’t untradeable.

    P.S. – Even when I saw him at the World’s in Toronto, his wind up and shot was an issue for me

  28. GCW_69 says:

    I don’t know how “I want the Oilers to trade Nurse” automatically equates to “why are so many Oilers fans willing to give up on the youngster?”

    Most of the comments I have read on Nurse seem to be along the lines of, “the Oilers should not wait for nurse since he is probably 2-3 years away from being an impact player if they can trade him for someone who is an impact player today.” That’s not giving up on a player. That’s identifying a timing issue and making a hard choice about being more successful today vs chasing rainbows tomorrow.

  29. Alpine says:

    My logic for moving Nurse is that you can replace what makes us unwilling to move him, his potential, by drafting Chychrun or the Russian. Kicks the can down the road a bit waiting for another stud D but you also would hypothetically improve the D moving Darnell for someone proven.

    Then you have a great prospect that can be on his ELC during McDavids next K, while having the most NHL ready defense possible for the last two years of the 97 ELC.

    I like Darnell a lot and I’ll even defend his selection over Ristolainen to this day, but if we’re trying to win next year we have to a least be open to moving someone with potential for someone bonafide. A couple guys on this team who are trade bait probably help the Oilers win next year more than Nurse playing 3rd pairing minutes.

  30. cc says:

    One of the things that people point out with regards to Nurse is his offense. His IPP (IPP = Individual Points Percentage = The % of goals scored while player was on ice that the player had a point on) this year is 12.5. Nurse’s IPP is the lowest in the league, for defenseman that have played more than 1000 minutes.

    Defenders who’s IPP were around 10-15 one season typically see their production double the next year.

    For example last year Jay Bouwmeester’s IPP was (13.2) and his Pts/60 was .34. This year he rebounded to .75.

    Now, I’m not saying that Nurse will be an offensive juggernaut but he’s better offensively than this season has gone for him. I’m more concerned with his defensive side of the game. He allows too many goals, too many shot attempts but it’s too soon to write his story. They didn’t put in a situation to succeed. When he was paired with Gryba (likely 3rd pairing minutes) in 95 minutes his GF% was 50 and his CF% was 48.5.

  31. cc says:

    LT: Come to camp focused and ready, work every minute of every practice like it is your last one, and no matter where they send you treat the assignment as temporary. Embrace uncertainty and beat the living hell out of every challenge that comes your way. And whatever you do, never listen to someone who has decided what you are within 20 minutes of hearing your name and reading your backstory.
    Every kid deserves to make his own way. Every damn one of them.

    Amen!

  32. Jethro Tull says:

    cc: He allows too many goals,

    You cannot judge d-men by GA. That’s goalies.

  33. theres oil in virginia says:

    I am saying there is something about this story that implies fracture.

    Sorry!, but you see, I see this as you seeing something that you want to see, but we’ll see.

    🙂

  34. knighttown says:

    Breaking Nurse’s season into first 11 and then the last 57 and pointing to usage seems a bit odd to me. When was the last time he played with Sekera and took on 1st comps? It’s been weeks and probably more like months.

    Games 1-11; easy minutes
    Games 12- ?? (40?)- tough minutes
    Games 41-68- easier minutes (or as easy as possible with the injuries)

    I guess the only difference is that it’s misleading to say he’s posted these crappy numbers only because MacLellan buried him. The 57 game number is a combination of buried and soft minutes and it still sucks.

    (Now, I’d love to see how he fared in 3 segments. It does seem to me he’s been decent again in “segment 3”.

    I’d guess, good-terrible-decent would be the results.

  35. who says:

    PhrankLee:
    I think you nailed it, LT. Any trade involving Hall not bringing back oneof the top 4 D in the League is folly and not even worth defending.

    Any trade involving Nurse would be so shortsighted the mind boggles. I wouldn’t engage anyone who promoted that trade either.

    You appear to be correct with your conclusions regarding the word sorry. It’s a backhanded courtesy. And an over used convention at this point. Sorry if that hurt anyone’s feelings… (like that, right?)

    The GD isn’t where I wanted it and the points are South of .500 a little more than I wanted.

    Chiarelli must let slip loose the dogs of war this summer.Or something literary and deep like to that effect.

    I imagine most fans of any team end up overvaluing their favorite players. But to say Hall is only tradeable for the top 4 dmen in the league would imply that he is one of the top 4 forwards in the league. He is not even the best forward on this team and realistically is a top 30 forward league wide.

  36. who says:

    SumOil:
    So we shouldn’t trade Klefbom, we shouldn’t trade 1st rounder, we shouldn’t trade Eberle. Who should we trade to acquire that RhD for that balance?

    Eberle and or Hall

  37. PhrankLee says:

    who: I imagine most fans of any team end up overvaluing their favorite players. But to say Hall is only tradeable for the top 4 dmen in the league would imply that he is one of the top 4 forwards in the league. He is not even the best forward on this team and realistically is a top 30 forward league wide.

    Taylor Hall is one of the very best wingers in this league. Top 3 bona fide NHL LW. Size, skill, speed, under rated passer, under rated physical game, hard shot, elite release. Lightning hands. Have you even watched the games?

    C’mon, man. You are farting through your hat.

    And I’m not biting.

  38. cc says:

    Jethro Tull: You cannot judge d-men by GA.That’s goalies.

    Sorry let me re-word that. He’s on the ice for too many goals. He just is. That’s not his fault and that wasn’t the point of my post.

    The league average Goals / 60 is in the area of 2.1. Nurse is on the ice for 2.90 Goals for per 60. It’s worst in the league for defenseman that have played more than 1000 minutes. Perhaps you can say it’s the goalie but you’d have a tough time convincing me of that.

    Now if you look at the list there’s some pretty good defenseman that are at the bottom of that list; (Giordano, Faulk, Morgan Rielly, Erik Karlsson, Oliver Ekman-Larsson) but Nurse is clearly at the bottom.

    Nurse was playing too far up the batting order. He should have been sheltered.

  39. knighttown says:

    The old adage of not trading a player before you know what you have also needs to be a challenged. For all the comments about “that’s what losing teams do”, this team, a losing team if there’s ever been one, has been quite guilty of the opposite.

    -Cogliano drafted first round, 45 points as a rookie, 28 points in his final year moved for a second rounder
    -Sam Gagner drafted early first round, 49 points as a rookie, devalued and moved essentially for a buyout (he was flipped WITH another asset for a 6th)
    -Justin Schultz the coup of the free agent season, prorated 50+ point rookie season, devalued and moved for a 3rd
    -Nail Yakupov drafted 1st overall, 11 goal April in his rookie year second only to Ovie, devalued and has asked for a trade with the likely return of a 2nd and 3rd.

    If they move Eberle or Nuge this offseason it will be at a time when the value of the player is the lowest since their draft day.

    The ONLY reason I’d suggest Nurse or Draisatl as a trade target is because the asset is worth MORE than today than it ever has been and I’m conditioned by this shit stain of a team to expect the price head south very soon.

  40. Jethro Tull says:

    cc: Sorry let me re-word that. He’s on the ice for too many goals. He just is. That’s not his fault and that wasn’t the point of my post.

    What kind of ‘Sorry’?

  41. Frank the dog says:

    There is a great deal of vitriol around MacT and Buchberger. Could it be that they wanted to minimize the boo birds on the last night?

  42. PhrankLee says:

    Jethro Tull: cc: Sorry let me re-word that. He’s on the ice for too many goals. He just is. That’s not his fault and that wasn’t the point of my post.
    What kind of ‘Sorry’?

    Front runner for “wins the thread”

  43. russ99 says:

    1. Defensemen take longer to develop than forwards.

    2. Even very good defensemen have had trying seasons early in their career.

    3. It’s very hard, if not impossible to trade for a top pairing D, you have to draft and develop them. And despite a trying year, Nurse still has a top pairing potential skill set on both sides of the ice.

    4. Why would we ignore 1 through 3 to make a deal for an older and highly likely much lesser D to “win now”?

    Seems beyond dumb to trade Nurse unless we’re getting a Doughty/Subban back, and as I recall we’ve moved or are about to move the beyond dumb people out of this organization.

  44. Hockey Buddha says:

    Unwashed Oilfan,

    Jenneke is stunning. Thanks.

  45. 15w40 says:

    I think it is more likely you see a trade with Klefbom than Nurse. Eventually the need for good right shot defensemen is going to trump everything. Klefbom and a 2nd for Hamonic if Garth Snow sticks to his guns. Then maybe you see a deal that involves a package with Eberle to the Jets for either Meyers or Trouba or something that Anaheim likes for Vatanen

    Getting Sekera over to the left side where he belongs is probably in the plans and it may not be ideal but its not inconceivable that Davidson is the left side on the 2nd pairing next year.

    As usual, a lot of dominoes won’t be in place until after the draft lottery. It the Oilers win then I’m sure they make the pick and if they don’t i can see it getting dealt.

  46. who says:

    PhrankLee: Taylor Hall is one of the very best wingers in this league. Top 3 bona fide NHL LW. Size, skill, speed, under rated passer, under rated physical game, hard shot, elite release. Lightning hands. Have you even watched the games?

    C’mon, man. You are farting through your hat.

    And I’m not biting.

    I’m not trolling or farting through my hat. I just think we need to be more realistic in valuing our favorite players. Here is a list of forwards who are producing or have proven they can produce at a Taylor Hall rate and who are in their prime or, like Hall, entering their prime.
    Gaudreau, Monahan, Pavelski, Kopitar, Perry, Getzlaf, Benn, Seguin, Tarasenko, Toews, Kane, Forsberg, Parise, Mackinnon, Wheeler, Parise, Hoffman, Pacorietty, Galchenyuk, Maarchand, Bergeron, Eichel,Tavares, Ovy, Kuznetsof, Giroux, Barkov, Stamkos, Tampas Russian center, MacDavid.
    That’s 30 and I’m sure I missed a few. You can debate this list but my point is that Taylor Hall is not quite as rare a commodity as some of you think he is. Also keep in mind a lot of these guys play center which makes them more valualble from a defensive point of view.
    Just realized I forgot Crosby and Malkin.

  47. frjohnk says:

    cc: The league average Goals / 60 is in the area of 2.1. Nurse is on the ice for 2.90 Goals for per 60. It’s worst in the league for defenseman that have played more than 1000 minutes. Perhaps you can say it’s the goalie but you’d have a tough time convincing me of that.
    Now if you look at the list there’s some pretty good defenseman that are at the bottom of that list; (Giordano, Faulk, Morgan Rielly, Erik Karlsson, Oliver Ekman-Larsson) but Nurse is clearly at the bottom.

    Goals Against/60 is an on ice differential that is calculated with 10 skaters and 2 goalies. In my opinion, the 2 goalies have the most influence on this number, followed by the Dmen, and then by the forwards.

    How much influence does 1 player, a Dman like Nurse have on a goals against/60 number over a complete season?

    I don’t know, but I’m not sure its enough that I would use it as a solid metric for valuing a defender.

  48. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    who,

    You forgot Backstrom too.

    Hall is better than some of those players. He has a better contract and more upside than some.

    But your point stands. Saying only Hall for 1 of the top 4D in the league is crazy.

    Hall is a winger.

    Dmen are more important than wingers.

    I don’t think we trade Hall, and I think if we did the return would have to be very very good, but top4 D in the whole league? You’re right, that’s insane.

  49. digger50 says:

    To me Nurse has huge character, and this is something desperately needed by the Oil, yet does not show up in the stats. They would be crazy to move him, he will become a fan favorite and a key component of the McDavid cluster.

    In opposition to Lead Farmer, I was one who stated “bring up Nurse” from day one. Lesson for me around proper development.

  50. Kevin McCartney says:

    JimmyV1965,

    Those couple links were really helpful to understand Fowler’s game, if a little reductionist. In many respects, he would remind Oiler fans of Jeff Petry – great range, great transition player with some specific gaps in his game that annoy fans.

    He’s not ‘assertive’ in the modern parlance, in that he manages space and opportunity, not individual players or the puck. In the video posted by one of the links provided above, he’s argued to be ‘not noticing’ the weak side winger in a 2-on-3 transition play. I think more realistically, he’s acknowledging that by inserting himself into the second layer (middle lane) passing lane while the opposition puck carrier is entering a double-team, he’s likely to intercept the pass. That’s indicative of a certain type of defensive game and one that is highly effective and plausibly the coach’s choice – he limits the choice of the puck carrier by taking away the inside and stays between the puck and his primary option, aka plays an overload swarm.

    He doesn’t have a ‘plus’ shot. He’s not going to close out lanes or hit people the way Nurse or Gryba do (which fans love as evidence of a defensive play made). Instead, he’ll play the lanes, play the options, and is noted above to be among the most efficient breakout players in the whole league.

    So while the Oilers would be instantly much better at the acquisition of an elite breakout player with exceptional speed, strong passing and a reactive mind for the game, Oilers fans, coaches and management have typically hated Gilbert, Visnovsky, Petry, Marincin and all the other versions of this player (some of which were not as gifted as Fowler, of course). Equally, Chiarelli has never employed a player like this of his own choice. I think he’s excellent but he doesn’t fit for lots of reasons, from being left handed to not bringing ‘toughness’ in any evident form (oh, except tough to play against but I’m told that doesn’t count).

  51. McSorley33 says:

    Outstanding article.

    Every year, when the ‘Turn North’ campaign ends, LT’s articles become razor sharp.

    How ironic to see people dump and want to trade an elite skilled Dman with Incredible size.

    He is the manifestations ( okay a hair light on offensive skill ) of our collective 10 year dreams of a real defenceman.

    Can we give Darnell time to grow into his body and learn the game?

    It will take at least 2 more years of development….at least.

  52. hunter1909 says:

    I’m sorry, but every time I see that green chick warming up to get hotter and hotter I always take time to watch.

  53. NF Oiler says:

    Trading Nurse is simply crazy…very rarely do defenceman come around that can skate, make a pass, provide toughness and are difficult to play against..we haven’t had a dman who scares his opposition since the legend Jason smith..sticks up for teammates and doesn’t back down from anyone..he is tough now, just wait until his body grows into a man

  54. G Money says:

    There are serious gaps in the Oiler roster that require NHL calibre (in some cases, high calibre) players to fill.

    It’s not a 30th place roster IMO – injuries, reffing, and schedule played a big part this year, and I expect at least two of those will be more average next year – but it’s not a good roster, and it needs fixin’.

    Not all of those gaps, maybe none, can be filled via UFA.

    Therefore, one or more players will be traded.

    And since you don’t trade shit and get good players back (unless you’re trading with MacT), someone good will be going out.

    It’s why we speak of a Nurse or an Eberle (or a Pouliot or even RNH …) going out. Not because, they’re not good, but because they are good … and more specifically, good enough that they have value that they can bring value back in trade. But also not so much value that you’re guaranteed to lose the trade.

    Nurse has potential, but potential is not the same as actual. He may be turn out to be a stud top pairing shutdown D. Or he might stay where he is … a bubble third pairing defender with a ton of raw physical tools but lacking the ability to put it all together.

    If we speak of a Nurse for Hamonic trade, there is one salient fact: Hamonic is a much better defender today than is Nurse, and a right-handed one to boot.

    Nurse might turn out better than Hamonic. But what are the realistic chances of that?

    Personally, I’d put them at 20%, no more. There is no manifest destiny in player development.

    It’s a painful reality, for both the roster and the team.

    If none of the good, or potentially good, players on the Oiler roster today go out in order to bring good but different players back in … then next year will be another year wasted.

  55. Fog of Warts says:

    The slow method ultimately leads to one of two stories:

    A) Prospect tracks well year after year, and ultimately becomes a useful asset.

    B) Prospect does not track well year over year. Those damn scouts!

    Both of these stories placate the kind of mind that eschews uncertainty.

    Yakupov thrived on his physical gifts through junior, because he could. Nurse could just as easily thrive on his physical gifts in the AHL.

    Edmonton once had our own Durham duo: Warren Moon meets Tom Wilkinson. Did Moon finally learn to play his position in Edmonton (taking full advantage of the other 3/4 of the play book) because he had to, or because a willy veteran fluoridated his Gatorade? (Wilky was wiles all the way down; his natural physical ability largely consisted of an uncanny ability to complete a three to five yard pass from any possible configuration of limbs, right after eating a handful of earthquake pills—no matter how many times his mother told him to wait half an hour. But Moooom, the head shake is my thing!)

    Why did Moon choose to accept the mind-meld from the spastic old fart? There are some things we’ll never know. Perhaps the right fluoride delivery system magically combined with the right time and place.

    Down in the A, will Nurse round himself out with patient study of what doesn’t come as easily? Or will he just continue to skate over and through people because he can?

    It’s easier to smooth out the story (send him down!) than to actually resolve the problem. If you’re the kind of person where jagged stories give you heartburn, you’re going to endorse option (A) all day long. Because heartburn.

    ———

    By the same token, I’ve never been completely onside with BPA. Sure, BPA as a cure for smartest-man-in-the-room is beyond reproach. Great. BPA cures genital crabs. I’ll certainly make a mental note of that in case Rome someday burns (a dire social mortification, but in actuality nowhere close to a worst-case scenario). But is that really the high water mark here? Cures genital crabs?

    I’m more in favour of BAA: best asset available.

    ———

    Dallas Eakins: What’s this?

    Management: It’s a necklace made of Rubik’s cubes.

    Dallas Eakins: Guess that’s why I make the big bucks.

    Management: Spend them wisely, or at least, don’t spend them soon.

    ———

    TMac: What’s this?

    New management: It’s a necklace made of Rubik’s cubes, all messed up.

    TMac: Eeew and it’s kind of sticky.

    New management: Well, yes, it’s a bit of a hand me down.

    TMac: Guess that’s why my wife calls me crazy.

    New management: A quick cycle through your patented power-play ball washer should have it good as new again, in next to no time.

    TMac: [silently contemplates the iridescent, dangling cubes] I have a bad feeling about this.

    New management: What’s that? You mumbled there.

    TMac: [loudly] Go, Oilers!

    ———

    Pisani was a Rubik’s cube: the kind with five green faces—the kind of Rubik’s cube you can solve by leaving it overnight under a growth lamp next to a vibrating bed.

    Ambitious assistant coach: Well, would you look at that, it sorted itself out overnight, with no real coaching attention. How nice is that?

    ———

    I’m not super keen on BPA when it adds to a garland of Rubik’s cubes, already in full bloom. The beautiful metamorphosis of squeezing order from chaos is best left to those franchises where the trains are already running on time and tune.

    Instead we sit around asking ourselves “what would happen if our coach somehow solved all six Rubik’s cubes at the same time?”

    Total world domination. Duh!

    Next question.

    ———

    At some point GM #N realizes that coach #M is overburdened with with brightly spackled, Easter Island sea shells.

    GM: Tell you what. We’ll throw Gagner to the wolves. That should lessen your burden. What do you think? Will that help you gain command?

    Coach: So then, I take it you plan to replace Gagner with … [gathers up the last remnants of his eviscerated psychic energy] with a Pisani-type?

    GM: Oooh! Would I ever like to do that!

    Coach: No, then?

    GM: Realistically, let’s start with addition by subtraction, and then we’ll see what kind of fish jumps into the boat in the summer frenzy.

    Coach: Jumps into the boat?

    GM: Pisani-types are earth elementals. You don’t catch them, they catch you.

    Coach: What are you trying to catch then?

    GM: Take a look at this baby! Holds up a wodge that looks a lot like a deep fried onion bhaji.

    Coach: What the hell?

    GM: Looks a lot like an onion bhaji, and the recipe is not that different, but it’s actually deep-fried cocoa kelp.

    Coach: Of course! All the better to catch a love-sick Asian Mermaid.

    GM: You got a problem with that?

    Coach: Oh, I bet those are super easy to feed. You know, I was kind of hoping for a backward-swimming electric Sumo eel that skates back to the bench looking like a Tasmanian Devil who got the worst of meal time hostilities, but actually gorged himself on a pint of Kopitar’s life essence. Those are easy to feed. Thirty minutes a night of happy hunting, never goes hungry.

    GM: Gosh, know what you mean—witnessed it first hand. However, for the present, addition by subtraction is somewhat like swimming backwards, you’ll have to admit.

    Coach: Not swimming backwards, backward-swimming.

    GM: Fussy britches!

    Coach: Good grief, I’ve become the helmsman of the good ship Bill of Goods!

    GM: What’s that? You mumbled there.

    Coach: [loudly] Go, Oilers!

  56. Jethro Tull says:

    McSorley33:
    Outstanding article.

    Every year, when the ‘Turn North’ campaign ends, LT’s articles become razor sharp.

    How ironic to see people dump and want to trade an elite skilled Dman with Incredible size.

    He is the manifestations ( okay a hair light on offensive skill ) of our collective 10 year dreams of a real defenceman.

    Can we give Darnell time to grow into his body and learn the game?

    It will take at least 2 more years of development….at least.

    1) Darnell is NOT an elite skilled d-man. Has potential, yes, but not yet. And I would describe his size as impressive, not incredible.

    2) He is more than a hair light offensively.

    3) The only problem with Nurse is that he WILL take another 2 years to realise his potential. Non Playoffs Perpetuo.

  57. russ99 says:

    G Money,

    It’s a pretty good bet that Nurse turns out just as good if not better than Hamonic. I’ll make that bet.

    But it’s not a good idea to make that trade for two reasons, Nurse’s obvious potential and what you’re trading is similar to what you’d get back.

    To make the team better we need to add size, toughness, D-zone quality play, and a quality point shot, not remove one of that type of player (albeit a developing player) to get another one.

    That’s why I prefer moving Klefbom for Hamonic if that’s what it takes. We have other defensmen (Sekera at the very least) or can acquire players more readily that have similar strengths, and we’d be moving a player that’s weak at what Hamonic is good at.

  58. russ99 says:

    2)He is more than a hair light offensively.

    Don’t see this at all, unless you’re only looking at and overvaluing numbers.

    Not only is he a good point shooter but he can carry the puck and make things happen with it. And despite whatever Schultz did to put the fear of the lord of that into some of you, that is a rare and valuable skill at the NHL level.

  59. Yeti says:

    NF Oiler: Trading Nurse is simply crazy…

    That depends on what the return is. Trading a player is not good or bad until you see the other half of the deal. Unlike McDavid, Nurse is certainly not off the table. There are many plausible good deals involving Nurse – you have to evaluate what you get in return.

  60. PhrankLee says:

    who: I’m not trolling or farting through my hat. I just think we need to be more realistic in valuing our favorite players. Here is a list of forwards who are producing or have proven they can produce at a Taylor Hall rate and who are in their prime or, like Hall, entering their prime.
    Gaudreau, Monahan, Pavelski, Kopitar, Perry, Getzlaf, Benn, Seguin, Tarasenko, Toews, Kane, Forsberg, Parise, Mackinnon, Wheeler, Parise, Hoffman, Pacorietty, Galchenyuk, Maarchand, Bergeron, Eichel,Tavares, Ovy, Kuznetsof, Giroux, Barkov, Stamkos, Tampas Russian center, MacDavid.
    That’s 30 and I’m sure I missed a few. You can debate this list but my point is that Taylor Hall is not quite as rare a commodity as some of you think he is. Also keep in mind a lot of these guys play center which makes them more valualble from a defensive point of view.
    Just realized I forgot Crosby and Malkin.

    Taylor Hall doesn’t play center, remember?

    He is a LW. That would play LW on the top line of every team except Dallas, I think.

  61. Jethro Tull says:

    russ99: Don’t see this at all, unless you’re only looking at and overvaluing numbers.

    HAHAHA! This shall now be known as Russ’s Paradox!

  62. Yeti says:

    russ99: It’s a pretty good bet that Nurse turns out just as good if not better than Hamonic.

    Is that like a “It’s a pretty good bet that hot girl over by the pool table will give me her phone number if I ask her” kinda thing? Because I don’t think this is based on any real analysis. Harmonic is a strong defenceman – a #2 or #3 on a good team. Nurse could maybe get there, but could just be a tough as nails #4. Certainly his stats so far would project him as a middle pairing guy. There’s value in that – for sure. But I don’t get the basis for projecting more than that and I like Nurse just fine.

  63. godot10 says:

    The Oilers were looking for Nurse for a decade, and as soon as they trade him, they will be looking for Nurse for another decade.

    When Nurse was slotted in the 3rd pairing with a mediocre competent veteran, he did fine. When he was move up the roster he didn’t. When he was paired with a tweener on the 3rd pairing he didn’t do particularly well.

    So play him with a mediocre competent veteran on the 3rd pairing and he will be fine.

  64. Jethro Tull says:

    If you accept that Nurse has the potential to be very good, you also have to accept the possibility he has the potential to be very bad.

    This is why YOU DO NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH PROSPECTS!

    You develop, constantly assess, nurture and encourage. Then make your decisions based on something other than ‘intangibles’.

  65. G Money says:

    russ99: It’s a pretty good bet that Nurse turns out just as good if not better than Hamonic. I’ll make that bet.

    At Nurse’s age, Hamonic was already playing top comp, doing better than Nurse is (by a wide, not a slight margin), and scoring more.

    In Oiler land, it seems we reverse the old ‘grass is greener’ cliche. Potential is guaranteed, and always better than actual.

  66. vinotintazo says:

    godot10: The Oilers were looking for Nurse for a decade, and as soon as they trade him, they will be looking for Nurse for another decade.

    I cant believe I agree with Godot.

  67. murphy says:

    Nurse will not be traded, period. This has been said before but the only gear not on sale at the oilers stores in rexall this past week has been anything with mcdavid, dr dre, and nurse on it. The reasoning the clerks used, they aren’t worried about getting rid of this stock because they will be with the team along time. This doesn’t happen by accident. Klefbom would be a surprise after seeing what his absence did to us this year. Davidson and maroon are great value contracts and will stay. Like it’s been said here before, hall won’t go because the return would have to be gigantic. I think our management team sees the value in rnh so it depends on if they can land backes or someone similar.

  68. Jethro Tull says:

    Me: Boss, my paycheck’s short this month, AGAIN!

    Boss: That depends.

    Me: On what?

    Boss: Whether you’re just looking at and over-valuing the numbers. Personally, I don’t see it.

    Me: But it’s my salary that we agreed upon!

    Boss: No, it’s potentially your salary. Maybe you make it, maybe you don’t.

    Me: I’m taking a job somewhere else. Consider this my notice.

    Boss: Hey! The upside of this job is higher than that one. You could potentially be made partner next year.

    Me: How likely is that?

    Boss: Dare to dream, son, dare to dream.

    Me: I’ll see myself out.

  69. monsterbater says:

    15w40,

    I can’t wait until WG responds to this post. Klefbom is the better defenseman, Snow’s hands are tied, you can get Demers for just money and they’re similar players.

    You DO NOT trade Klefbom unless it’s for an upgrade on him and has a favorable contract because if healthy, that will be a sweetheart deal going forward.

  70. Alpine says:

    There’s every possibility Nurse ends up a top pairing defensemen, but there’s also a real possibility that not everything translates and he ends up as a second pairing guy at best. A lot of what’s going for him in our minds is reputation, intangibles, junior history etc., but I feel like we still have to consider his actual results and why is he not succeeding on his own accord independent of usage.

    It’s far, far, far from over for him, that’s stupid thinking on anyone’s part. But maybe after seeing him go up against NHLers for a whole season we should adjust expectations. Unfortunately for the Oilers, they have a void on the right side and need guys there yesterday. Unfortunately for Nurse, the Oilers have guys on the left who are more likely to help them win on McDavid’s ELC. Fortunately for the Oilers, they have other good defensive prospects coming that could lessen the blow of losing Nurse’s potential, which could include selecting another blue chipper in June.

    Trading Nurse for spite is something losing teams do. Trading Nurse in his current state for someone more able to help the team now and into the future is something a potentially winning team should consider.

  71. Ducey says:

    who: I’m not trolling or farting through my hat. I just think we need to be more realistic in valuing our favorite players. Here is a list of forwards who are producing or have proven they can produce at a Taylor Hall rate and who are in their prime or, like Hall, entering their prime.
    Gaudreau, Monahan, Pavelski, Kopitar, Perry, Getzlaf, Benn, Seguin, Tarasenko, Toews, Kane, Forsberg, Parise, Mackinnon, Wheeler, Parise, Hoffman, Pacorietty, Galchenyuk, Maarchand, Bergeron, Eichel,Tavares, Ovy, Kuznetsof, Giroux, Barkov, Stamkos, Tampas Russian center, MacDavid.
    That’s 30 and I’m sure I missed a few. You can debate this list but my point is that Taylor Hall is not quite as rare a commodity as some of you think he is. Also keep in mind a lot of these guys play center which makes them more valualble from a defensive point of view.
    Just realized I forgot Crosby and Malkin.

    So what you are saying is that Taylor Hall is one of the top 30 (‘or so’) forwards in the game.

    You think trading one of the guys you listed would happen often?

    Trading elite forwards doesn’t generally occur because it is a bad idea. You can’t replace them.

    People are approaching this the wrong way. They have convinced themselves that things must change and as a result someone must be given away to “fix it”. ie “The only way we are going to fix the defense is to get rid of Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Nurse, etc”

    How about if the Oilers figure out the parts that are part of the solution going forward and keep those? There are lots of ways to plug holes. They can sign Demers. They could trade some picks to a team that is in a cap crunch (see Snow getting Boychuk and Leddy). They can trade Yak for a RH Musil blocked in someone’s system.

    Maybe they don’t fix the D at all? Maybe they go all unicorns and go after Lucic and follow the Dallas model. Lucic and Demers might just work.

    Alex Anthopolous had a shitty pitching staff, and went out a traded for Donaldson, Tulo, Revere, and signed Martin. No pitchers. Suddenly the pitching could be fairly average and they could compete. They did get Price, but that was when it was clear they were good enough to go for it – and for less than it would have cost to get him at the beginning of the season.

    Maybe they trade Hall or Eberle or Nuge. But they better have a replacement (like Matthews or Laine) first. If they trade Eberle and pick 5th and stick a guy back in junior for a few years, that just fixes one hole and creates another.

    I don’t think you could replace Hall. That’s why you don’t trade him.

  72. who says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    who,

    You forgot Backstrom too.

    Hall is better than some of those players.He has a better contract and more upside than some.

    But your point stands.Saying only Hall for 1 of the top 4D in the league is crazy.

    Hall is a winger.

    Dmen are more important than wingers.

    I don’t think we trade Hall, and I think if we did the return would have to be very very good, but top4 D in the whole league? You’re right, that’s insane.

    Didn’t say it was insane, just an opinion that I didn’t agree with. This would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything.
    This will probably have many calling me insane. Here are my two trade suggestions to fix the d and hopefully balance out the roster a little better. This assumes we draft 2 overall.
    Trade Eberle and Fayne (retain 1.5 mil) for Hamonic. This gives the Islanders a scoring winger to play with Tavares and a second or third pairing righty dman (with appropriate salary) to ease the pain of losing Hamonic.
    Trade Hall and Davidson to Winnipeg for Trouba or Myers(assuming he is healthy), Ehlers and Hutchison. This gives Winnipeg a quality first line left winger to replace Ladd and a quality lefty dman to help balance out their top 4 d. I know a lot of Edmonton fans would not like this trade but it might not be real popular with Winnipeg fans either, which probably makes it a fair trade.
    Goalies- Talbot, Hutch, Brois
    Righty d- Hamonic, Trouba, Gryba
    Lefty d- Sek, Klef, Nurse, Griff, Oest, Pardy, Musil
    Center-Macdavid, Nuge, Drai, Letestu, Lander
    Right wingers- Yak, Laine, Kass, Pak
    Left wingers- Poo, Ehlers, Maroon, Hendriks, Korp
    I think this makes Edmonton a better team next year and a much better team 3 to 5 years down the road which is when they will be contending for cups. I think they would be a playoff team next year. It makes the defense much better and keeps most of the high end young prospects in the system. Defense will be a team strength in 3 to 5 years. It also adds depth to the nhl goalies.
    Up front they may need to acquire a right winger or center, or someone who can play both for more flexibility. Should have the cap room to do this. They will need to replace the goals from Hall and Eberle. Laine and Ehlers will help but so will full seasons from CMD, Nug, Poo and Maroon. They also should be able to get more than 8 goals out of Yak with this roster. Overall I think this team would be at least as good offensively as this years and again, much better in the next 3 to 5. This roster also has the key dmen 2 to 3 years older than the key forwards. Probably will have both positions peaking at the same time.

  73. monsterbater says:

    G Money,

    Right on the Money as usual G.

  74. season not played says:

    PhrankLee: Taylor Hall is one of the very best wingers in this league. Top 3 bona fide NHL LW. Size, skill, speed, under rated passer, under rated physical game, hard shot, elite release. Lightning hands. Have you even watched the games?

    C’mon, man. You are farting through your hat.

    And I’m not biting.

    I’ll let the fact that Taylor Halls next 30 goal season will be his first 30 goal season stand as the evidence that he is neither an elite shooter nor an elite finisher.

  75. who says:

    PhrankLee: Taylor Hall doesn’t play center, remember?

    He is a LW. That would play LW on the top line of every team except Dallas, I think.

    That is my point. As a left winger he has less value than an equally gifted center.

  76. monsterbater says:

    who,

    why not just offer sheet trouba this offseason?

  77. who says:

    Ducey: So what you are saying is that Taylor Hall is one of the top 30 (‘or so’) forwards in the game.

    You think trading one of the guys you listed would happen often?

    Trading elite forwards doesn’t generally occur because it is a bad idea. You can’t replace them.

    People are approaching this the wrong way.They have convinced themselves that things must change and as a result someone must be given away to “fix it”. ie “The only way we are going to fix the defense is to get rid of Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Nurse, etc”

    How about ifthe Oilers figure out the parts that are part of the solution going forward and keep those? There are lots of ways to plug holes.They can sign Demers.They could trade some picks to a team that is in a cap crunch (see Snow getting Boychuk and Leddy). They can trade Yak for a RH Musil blocked in someone’s system.

    Maybe they don’t fix the D at all?Maybe they go all unicorns and go after Lucic and follow the Dallas model. Lucic and Demers might just work.

    Alex Anthopolous had a shitty pitching staff, and went out a traded for Donaldson, Tulo, Revere, and signed Martin.No pitchers. Suddenly the pitching could be fairly average and they could compete.They did get Price, but that was when it was clear they were good enough to go for it – and for less than it would have cost to get him at the beginning of the season.

    Maybe they trade Hall or Eberle or Nuge.But they better have a replacement (like Matthews or Laine) first. If they trade Eberle and pick 5th and stick a guy back in junior for a few years, that just fixes one hole and creates another.

    I don’t think you could replace Hall. That’s why you don’t trade him.

    Some of the guys on my list have been traded already. If the return is right and it makes the team better, now and in the future, you make the trade. Hall is a great player but he is not irreplaceable, MacDavid is irreplaceable.

  78. frjohnk says:

    russ99: Don’t see this at all, unless you’re only looking at and overvaluing numbers.

    Not only is he a good point shooter but he can carry the puck and make things happen with it. And despite whatever Schultz did to put the fear of the lord of that into some of you, that is a rare and valuable skill at the NHL level.

    I’m working on an offensive metric of Dmen that gives different weights to
    -5 on 5 points ( every point is worth 0.000398248)
    -individual high scoring chances created ( every IHSC created by the player is worth 0.000638162)
    -scoring chances created ( every scoring chance created is worth 0.000118427)

    * the reason that individual high scoring chances created are worth more than a point is that out of the top 200 Dman TOI there were 2511 points produced by Dmen compared to 1567 individual high scoring chances created by Dmen, so each individual high scoring chance created has a higher weight, so this metric probably needs tweaking ( I may need to incorporate forward metrics) but Nurse comes in 42nd of all Dmen.

    This is how it looks for the top 60

    Erik.Karlsson
    Dustin.Byfuglien
    Brent.Burns
    Roman.Josi
    John.Klingberg
    Torey.Krug
    Victor.Hedman
    Mattias.Ekholm
    Alex.Pietrangelo
    T.J..Brodie
    Trevor.Daley
    Dougie.Hamilton
    Mark.Giordano
    Morgan.Rielly
    Erik.Johnson
    Jake.Muzzin
    Tyler.Myers
    Colton.Parayko
    Jacob.Trouba
    Oliver.Ekman-Larsson
    Kris.Letang
    Dmitry.Orlov
    Alex.Goligoski
    Tyson.Barrie
    Ryan.Suter
    Jake.Gardiner
    Aaron.Ekblad
    Ryan.McDonagh
    Kevin.Shattenkirk
    Keith.Yandle
    Marc-Edouard.Vlasic
    Rasmus.Ristolainen
    Olli.Maatta
    Anton.Stralman
    Noah.Hanifin
    Roman.Polak
    Drew.Doughty
    Andrej.Sekera
    Shayne.Gostisbehere
    Ryan.Ellis
    Marco.Scandella
    Seth.Jones
    Darnell.Nurse
    Justin.Braun
    Hampus.Lindholm
    Cody.Ceci
    Justin.Schultz
    Zdeno.Chara
    Jay.Bouwmeester
    Nick.Leddy
    Josh.Manson
    Brian.Dumoulin
    Johnny.Boychuk
    Nate.Schmidt
    Kevin.Klein
    Andrei.Markov
    Shea.Weber
    Karl.Alzner
    Justin.Faulk
    Travis.Hamonic

    Nurse has a 0.26 pts/60 and so this dings him and many believe he has little to no offense, but as mentioned above he has the worst IPP for Dmen this year, so I would expect it to improve next year.

    I think Nurse’s offense is underrated.

  79. Adam Wu says:

    Gret99zky:
    “Can we further agree that moving Nurse up the depth chart—and leaving him there—is not the fault of the player?”

    Agree.It’s not the player.

    However, we can’t blame the GM or coach because:
    a) they are not going anywhere.
    b) they are bonafide.
    c) they are seeing what they have.

    So their is no blame.

    Sometimes in this universe stuff just happens and there is no blame. Everyone has to play the hand they are dealt and sometimes even a well played hand leads to you busting.

  80. PhrankLee says:

    who: That is my point. As a left winger he has less value than an equally gifted center.

    Ok, man.

    The saying that it’s easier for a center to play wing is misleading.

    I for one would like to have a true blue left winger playing left wing.

    I would like for my right winger to be a dyed in the wool right winger.

    I like having a couple extra centers. Who doesn’t?

    But top 3 LW are pretty hard to come by. Unless I was getting Subban or Karlson or Faulk I would leave him right where he is.

    Unless that kind of return is coming back you loose any trade involving Taylor Hall.

  81. G Money says:

    By the way, in case it isn’t clear, I love me some Darnell Nurse. Love his skating, his snarl, and like many, I have high hopes for him.

    But I do not confuse hopes with reality.

    Assessing reality usually requires the opposite of what people tend to do around here, which is polarize. Reality is nuanced. And reality often requires reconciling seemingly contradictory facts.

    Fact 1: Defensemen take longer to develop. In particular, learning the defensive side of the game is really really tough at the NHL level. It is why most of the elite defensemen in the game spent at least a year or two in a developmental league (Jr, AHL) after being drafted.

    Subban spent two years in Jr and another in the AHL. Suter spent a year in college and another in the AHL. Keith was a year in college/CHL and two in the AHL. Karlsson spent a year in Sweden, and then briefly started in the AHL the next.

    The exceptions like Ekblad and Doughty are exactly that – exceptions, and rare ones to boot.

    That’s the good news.

    Fact 2: The bad news is that after that development time, by the age of 21 or 22, top pairing defensemen are usually in the NHL and already showing signs of being top pairing.

    Taking those two things into account means that:

    Nurse (21 yo, draft+3) and Reinhart (22 yo, draft+4), both have tools (Nurse = skating, size; Reinhart = ‘hockey IQ’, size) and have shown flashes of the ability to play that makes it likely both will have long NHL careers.

    But given their ages and ability shown, every day that goes by where they are not capable of handling top rank opposition reduces the likelihood that they will in fact end up as capable top pairing D.

    For both players, the most likely outcome at this point is topping out as capable second pairing D.

    Again, development is not manifest destiny (‘straight lines’, ‘wait five years’, etc).

    But we can gauge the probabilities, and every day that goes by, the probabilities steadily switch from probability to certainty.

    Failing to better your team because you fall in love with ever decreasing probabilities is another brick in the road to failure.

  82. commonfan14 says:

    frjohnk: He wont be a number 1 offensive stud, but once he develops a shot ( and he will ) and the game slows down for him ( it will) he will be a nice piece moving forward.

    On his shot, I believe it behooves the team to at least experiment with having him switch to shooting with his dominant hand.

    Could significantly improve his shot while simultaneously solving the RD-LD problem.

    I do not feel this suggestion makes me a crackpot, but have at it.

    Just stuff your sorrys in a sack first.

  83. Adam Wu says:

    SumOil:
    So we shouldn’t trade Klefbom, we shouldn’t trade 1st rounder, we shouldn’t trade Eberle. Who should we trade to acquire that RhD for that balance?

    Ideally we acquire that RhD without trading anyone.

    To improve a team and achieve balance the optimal way is to add assets of as high a quality as possible while giving up assets of as low a quality as possible. Trading, whereby you have to give up from the get go an asset of high value, is thus never the optimal route. It’s what you resort to when your other more optimal options are not available.

    Thus Free agent signing (giving up only money) > Developing your own (giving up only time) > offer sheet (giving up money and draft picks > fleece trade of a foolish GM or a GM backed into a corner by circumstance (giving up a set of poor assets for a good one) > hockey trade (giving up a good asset for a good asset)

    And when it comes to trades, “shouldn’t” is a relative term. No one is untouchable, not even McDavid. But you don’t go into the process with the fixed notion that “I will trade Y to get X”. What you should do instead, is for each player on your list, you have a “minimum acceptable return” that you carefully consider to be an exchange that will benefit your team. Then you see if anyone is willing to give you that “minimum acceptable return” for that player. If no one is, you don’t continue to try to trade that player. You move on to the next player. If none of your players gets you your “minimum acceptable return”, then you *don’t trade anyone*. The first rule of repairing a mess is to not make things worse with any hasty actions.

    Sometimes the “minimal acceptable return” is so high that one would never expect anyone to be willing to give it to you. In that case, you may regard that player as “functionally” untradeable. However, you never know, as there are crazy people in this world.

    (For McDavid, my “minimal acceptable return” would start with at least the entire 6 man D corps of the eventual Stanley Cup champions, with salaries retained to make it work under the cap)

  84. G Money says:

    Speaking of Nurse: Blob Stauffer is reporting he’s on the ice?!?

    Wasn’t the rumour that he was having surgery to fix a broke-ass larynx?

    Or is he just that goddamn tough? “Meh, broken larynx. Just a flesh wound.”

  85. who says:

    monsterbater:
    who,

    why not just offer sheet trouba this offseason?

    Generally not a big fan of offer sheets because you tend to overpay in salary and draft picks. Draft picks turn into cheap young players. The roster I listed will get very expensive in 5 years and you will need those draft picks to plug some holes from cap related trades.
    This is also why I don’t believe in signing most big ticket free agents. Yes it is only money but you can’t just keep adding contracts without moving some out. A gms biggest challenge is deciding who is worthy of a long term, high dollar deal. I think a lot of posters on here are a little too free with the purse strings and would be in major cap trouble in 2 or 3 years if they were running the team.

  86. Water Fire says:

    GCW_69:
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/need-redefine-makes-good-offensive-player/

    This is depressing.In 2005/06 the NHL had 63 players crack the 30 goal plateau, or more than two per teamThis season it looks like 25 will break that threshold this season, less than one per team.That’s a crazy drop in production.

    It also means the NHL needs to be more aggressive in changing the game to drive more offence.Goals matter.They get people in the stands out of their seats and people at home to tune in. The younger generation that sees scoring occur at a much higher rate in other sports are going to be more entertained by those sports.

    Filpovic notes, “One pervasive argument is that we can’t fundamentally make changes to the game because it’s a) always been played a certain way and b) would impact our ability to compare this generation’s numbers with those from the past. The problem with that rationale is it ignores the fact that the product already barely resembles the one from the ‘80s and ‘90s.”

    He’s right.This is not the game those great oilers teams played, nor that of the high flying Habs.

    Peter Tessier wrote a blog piece where he notes the NFL, the world’s best run sports league, “addressed something awhile ago that has helped the game immensely when they turned it into a passing league. A small but significant rule change about they way receivers can be covered from the line of scrimmage made a huge impact to the way the game was played. ”

    The NFL was for a long time a league driven by running the ball.But it didn’t make for great t.v. or suit today’s average fan that expects action to happen at a faster pace.They had the courage to make a change fundamental to the way the game is played to create a more compelling product.

    That’s why we should not be quick to dismiss those that advocate for bigger nets.Mike Babcock, Jerome Iginla, Ken Dryden and many others have argued for this change. Maybe now is the time to listen?

    Or, if the NHL wants to find its NFL style rule change to shift the powers back to offence, how about eliminating offside or allowing one player to enter ahead of the puck?Think of all the possessions that die on the lead player being offside by inches.Those would all become zone entries.Think about how dump ins would change if one or more attacking players can hit the line at full speed without worrying about offside, or maybe already be behind the defenders?The balance of power should shift back to offence.

    The NHL needs to do something, and needs to recognize that fundamental change, like the NFL did, is not a bad thing.They also need to recognize that not changing anything is, in effect, changing the game anyway. All we’re arguing about is the nature of the change. Do we want a game based on defence or offence?

    My vote is for offence.

    They have reduced goalie equipment, easy.

    Simply calling the rules (reducing obstruction) would be another easy no cost no fundamental change route.

  87. Water Fire says:

    If you need to improve an aspect of the team, in the Oilers case defense, how does that happen if you trade away good defensemen to acquire good defensemen?

    If that is what a team wants then they aren’t a good trading partner for Edmonton. Forwards and picks are the Oiler’s currency.

  88. Professor Q says:

    G Money:
    Speaking of Nurse: Blob Stauffer is reporting he’s on the ice?!?

    Wasn’t the rumour that he was having surgery to fix a broke-ass larynx?

    Or is he just that goddamn tough?“Meh, broken larynx.Just a flesh wound.”

    With a few gurgles thrown in.

  89. Jethro Tull says:

    G Money:
    Speaking of Nurse: Blob Stauffer is reporting he’s on the ice?!?

    Wasn’t the rumour that he was having surgery to fix a broke-ass larynx?

    Or is he just that goddamn tough?“Meh, broken larynx.Just a flesh wound.”

    “I’m invincible!”

    “You’re a loony.”

  90. GCW_69 says:

    Water Fire: They have reduced goalie equipment, easy.

    Simply calling the rules(reducing obstruction) would be another easy no cost no fundamental change route.

    Babcock’s response to that is they still aren’t making goalies smaller. Smaller equipment helps, but it doesn’t change the balance.

    Calling the actual rules would be nice, but I don’t see it driving enough of a change.

    That said, why not do all of them: goalie equipment, bigger nets, better refereeing, and change offside?

  91. AsiaOil says:

    G Money,

    You’re killing it this morning 🙂

    I’ll largely repost from last night. We have Klef, Sekera, Davidson, Reinhart, Nurse and Oesterle as LHD and one is going to get dealt. All have positive features:

    Klef – two way with top pair potential, injury prone
    Sekera – veteran, effective, one of the very few high profile UFA to sign with us
    Davidson – young, decent size, cheap, effective…..nuff said
    Nurse – young, tough as nails, great skating, offensively/defensively challenged despite the tools
    Reinhart – big, defensively solid, good passing, skating a minor issue, limited offense
    Oesterle – world class skating and passing, light and passive, offense unclear

    A case can be made for keeping or dealing everyone of them – but from my perspective – it’s Nurse given what we saw this season. His perceived value likely outweighs his actual value by quite a bit. I’m way more comfortable dealing him now after watching him for a season. Elite tools but it’s a real question whether he will be able to actually put it all together- and yes it’s probably 2nd pair upside. I’d actually say trade Reinhart first – but he’s the GMs first big deal – and I can’t see any GM giving up that quickly.

  92. bendelson says:

    vinotintazo: I cant believe I agree with Godot.

    I suspect most of us agree with Godot more often than we are willing to admit.
    He’s an absolute gem, except when he’s not.

  93. Gret99zky says:

    BTW, sorry means, “Sorry to disagree with you but…” or “Please forgive me for saying but…”

    People generally don’t like to be disagreeable.

    But is the worst of the conjunctions. “Conjunction junction, what’s your function? Pissing of bloggers and posters and readers.” (Source: Schoolhouse Rock on Saturday mornings)

  94. Bruce McCurdy says:

    GCW_69: Babcock’s response to that is they still aren’t making goalies smaller.Smaller equipment helps, but it doesn’t change the balance.

    Calling the actual rules would be nice, but I don’t see it driving enough of a change.

    That said, why not do all of them: goalie equipment, bigger nets, better refereeing, and change offside?

    You want to increase offence? Quit rewarding regulation ties with 50% more points than decided games.

  95. Bruce McCurdy says:

    PhrankLee:
    Any trade involving Hall not bringing back oneof the top 4 D in the League is folly and not even worth defending.

    But top 3 LW are pretty hard to come by. Unless I was getting Subban or Karlson or Faulk I would leave him right where he is.

    Are you suggesting Justin Faulk is one of the top 4 d-men in the game? I’ll look for him on the All-Star team in that case. (I’ll also look for Hall)

  96. AsiaOil says:

    I would add not allowing the goalie to stick handle the puck outside the crease at all. No trapazoids – just no stick handling outside the crease period. The obvious offense smothering technique to stop zone entries with possession is standing up at the line. This puts the defense at a disadvantage on dump-ins since they are moving forward and the defense is stationary – but goalies with decent puck handling skills (most now days) negate most of that disadvantage. If goalies could not handle the puck at all outside their crease then attackers could simply blow by a stationary defense at the blue line and regain possession. Calling obstruction and reducing goalie equipment size also needs to be done.

    GCW_69: Babcock’s response to that is they still aren’t making goalies smaller.Smaller equipment helps, but it doesn’t change the balance.

    Calling the actual rules would be nice, but I don’t see it driving enough of a change.

    That said, why not do all of them: goalie equipment, bigger nets, better refereeing, and change offside?

  97. 15w40 says:

    monsterbater,

    Klefbom is the better defenseman based on what – his 100 NHL games? If Snow’s hands were tied Hamonic would already be gone from the Islanders.

    Not saying this is a no brainer trade for Chiarelli but it isn’t outlandish either.

  98. SumOil says:

    Adam Wu,

    I understand your point, but making trade suggestions and naming only Yakupov, Lander and other low tier assets is not going to get us far. Furthermore, its not like we have some A-ish tier prospects who we can trade to get the required RHD. We have exactly 2 areas of strength-
    a> Centers- who I wouldnt touch
    b> LHD: Now Klefbom is already damn good, Sekera is the steady veteran. That leaves us Rienhart, Davidson and Nurse. Our of these three only the 1st rounders are going to fetch something of value. Furthermore, I am guessing that value of Nurse is higher than Rienhart and should fetch us something good.

    Now do I want to trade Nurse? No. I want to trade the pick for immediate help, however the general consensus is to keep the pick. Then it comes down to Eberle: There the problem is lack of RH shots. This leaves me Nurse and Rienhart. For me Hall, RNH, Klefbom etc form the untouchables,

  99. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Sorry, LT, 🙂 but there’s a small mistake in your Nurse boxcars up top. He was 1-4-5 through 11 games, and has gone 1-3-4 in the 57 games he’s played since. A brief burst of early promise followed by miles and miles of desert.

    EDIT: I looked it up at WOI & Nurse was 1-2-3 at 5v5 during that time, so presumably you took that & subtracted from his current boxcars to arrive at the rest. But he also had 1 point on the PP and another in a 6v5 during that early run.

  100. Hot Eire says:

    Unwashed Oilfan:
    For those of you looking for a little more on Jenneke’s “training”, a great video to learn more.You’re welcome!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2r-oAAeO0Q

    Sorry?

  101. delooper says:

    I think it’s par for the course on forums like this. A groupthink sets in and people keep repeating things regardless of whether or not it means anything. Trading Nurse fits into this. He’s perfect for the team. If only he was three years older! The Oilers need four more of him, in increments of 2 years in age.

  102. AsiaOil says:

    Only change in goal size that seems logical is raising the height of the crossbar. Goalies have not gotten fatter – equipment has – and that can be fixed. But they have become taller and can now cover most of the top of the net while sealing off the bottom in a butterfly. Raise the crossbar 3 or 4 inches might make the butterfly give up too much of the top of the net to be effective and get them upright again which opens up the bottom. Problem is goalies have gotten so much taller that they can still cover most of the top of the net while on their knees with the butterfly sealing off the bottom. Butterfly goalies would HATE this but I think raising the crossbar is something that actually addresses the real change in goalie size – height. Equipment changes take care of width.

  103. Unwashed Oilfan says:

    Hot Eire,

    1:04 – Heaven!!!

  104. godot10 says:

    The Oilers need to add defensemen…two defensemen. Adding while simultaneously subtracting is NOT addition.

    The ways to add D are
    1) Money (UFA’s)
    2) Trading forwards
    3) Trading the 1st round draft pick
    4) Offer sheets (trading future draft picks)

    I do all of these before I trade existing D.

    If I trade an existing D, there has to be a clear upgrade in the quality of the D and the value for money of the contract coming in.

    It is next to impossible to upgrade on Klefbom at his price point unless the opposing GM makes a horrible deal. It would take Pieterangelo to make me think about trading Klefbom.

    I’m not trading Nurse. I’m playing him on the 3rd pairing with a legit veteran.

    I’m interested in Hamonic for a forward or draft picks. I would be willing to include Fayne in the deal and retain salary. It might have to be a three-way. I have no interest in Hamonic if it costs Klefbom or Nurse. I move on to plan B and C. (Demers only costs money. Trouba and Vatanen can be offer-sheeted)

  105. RexLibris says:

    I think it’s par for the course on forums like this.A groupthink sets in and people keep repeating things regardless of whether or not it means anything.Trading Nurse fits into this.He’s perfect for the team.If only he was three years older! The Oilers need four more of him, in increments of 2 years in age.

    Oh wait, has someone already been said? Sorry.

  106. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    The salivating ove Hamonic is interesting. I watched a few Islander games this year after the trade chatter picked up and i see a slightly more well-rounded Petry but nothing that really blows my hair back. As a result I have checked my eye bias and have followed all of you good gentleman when you post the fancy stats to see what I a must be missing, but I still come away with a giant question mark on the player. So I dug into another stat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_Islanders_seasons

    There seems to be a sort of reverence on this blog for all things Islanders this year. Whether its Hamonic, Okposo, Neilsen or Lee it seems like this would be the team to grab the much needed grit and toughness from. However, their on ice accomplishments offer precious little evidence that the team that Snow has assembled is successful or battle tested in any way except for a few playoff appearances that were quickly met with defeat. Yes they have had injury trouble but since 2010 (Hamonic’s rookie year) I don’t see a screaming hell team here. I see a bunch of sub-500 seasons mixed in with a great outburst last year.

    This is kind of a ramble post but why are we hoping to grab players from a middling team in a rather middling division when the last time we reached for gold here (Fayne) it left something to be desired.

    This isn’t an argument against acquiring Travis Hamonic but it is an argument about looking very closely before you leap. The Islanders are an odd franchise in a very odd division. We should be careful about trading away 60-80 point players just because it would shake things up.

  107. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Also TMac has said that Nurse is cleared and will play tomorrow in Vancouver

  108. Alpine says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!,

    When I look at the Isles from 2010 on i see two teams, one a perpetual lottery team and the other a deep, exciting team that no one wants to play in the first round. they have changed over the years, and while not a great team, i would say they are definitely ‘good’ and have good players to acquire.

  109. Jethro Tull says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!:
    Also TMac has said that Nurse is cleared and will play tomorrow in Vancouver

    Broken larynx, broken schmarynx!

  110. Магия 10 says:

    G Money:
    Speaking of Nurse: Blob Stauffer is reporting he’s on the ice?!?

    Wasn’t the rumour that he was having surgery to fix a broke-ass larynx?

    Or is he just that goddamn tough?“Meh, broken larynx.Just a flesh wound.”

    The real reason for the half hour interval between end of game and the closing ceremony?

    Stan Weir was tied up repairing Nurse’s larynx.

  111. RexLibris says:

    I’ve weighed in on trading Nurse but from the perspective of tomorrow he may yet become what Hamonic is today, and we need Today more than we need Tomorrow.

    Plus the righty-lefty thing, but on this forum the less said about that the better. 😉

    That being said, if Chiarelli can acquire Hamonic without having to give up Nurse or one of the forwards, then full steam ahead. We don’t know what the values out there are. Yesterday I think LT mentioned Pouliot + for Fowler and then Fowler for Hamonic.

    Those are the kinds of deals that can happen, but which often take the fans by surprise because we did not expect that the names involved would necessarily have been in play or valued by the teams involved.

  112. Caramel Batman says:

    Ducey’s post above is excellent.

    I also agree with Gmoney.

  113. RexLibris says:

    Магия 10: The real reason for the half hour interval between end of game and the closing ceremony: Stan Weir was tied up repairing Nurse’s larnyx.

    I was going to say that Randy Gregg fixed the larynx while Stan Weir tore the offending puck in half with his bare hands.

  114. Lowetide says:

    Jethro Tull:

    We need Nurse from three years in the future if this team is to progress.

    I understand the idea of fast tracking via trade, and as I mentioned in the original piece Nurse may in fact be the guy to go. Edmonton is still a building team, and they are going to be young again next season on defense. No avoiding that, and Nurse in the AHL to start the year is no crime, either.

    Suspect there will be growing pains in 2016-17, and the maturation of Nurse will be a part of it.

  115. Магия 10 says:

    RexLibris: I was going to say that Randy Gregg fixed the larynx while Stan Weir tore the offending puck in half with his bare hands.

    Don’t think Gregg was at the ceremony. So Weir had to do the surgery with one hand while he turned the offending puck into confetti with the other.

  116. Walter Sobchak says:

    I’m on board with G money.

    Hamonic for Nurse makes the Oilers better now.

    Nurse may or may not be better than Hamonic, problem is we won’t know for 3 or 4 years.

    Hamonic deal is a beaut, not to mention his resigning would be a formality here.

    Hamonic is RH huge need.

    If you can trade Nurse for Hamonic that gives Chairelli more options to use some of the core to fill other needs, possible a bigger trade.

    I think this in the end will end up as an even trade, with both sides getting what they need.

  117. Zed says:

    Gentlemen,
    Overall, we are taking a binary approach to valuing Nurse and other prospects. Success or bust, and put it down to skill or heart or some combination or lack thereof.

    However imagine Nurse’s value if we continue to let him player over his head. In contrast, what if he plays 3rd pairing with a seasoned vet to guide him. His value will increase and he will graduate to higher pairing. Keep him or trade him, the end rest is better.

    Our drafting is nowhere near as atrocious as our development. Taylor is better, but Tyler is more successful. Because Oilers development…

    AsiaOil:
    G Money,

    You’re killing it this morning

    I’ll largely repost from last night. We have Klef, Sekera, Davidson, Reinhart, Nurse and Oesterle as LHD and one is going to get dealt. All have positive features:

    Klef – two way with top pair potential, injury prone
    Sekera – veteran, effective, one of the very few high profile UFA to sign with us
    Davidson – young, decent size, cheap, effective…..nuff said
    Nurse – young, tough as nails, great skating,offensively/defensively challenged despite the tools
    Reinhart – big, defensively solid, good passing, skating a minor issue, limited offense
    Oesterle – world class skating and passing, light and passive, offense unclear

    A case can be made for keeping or dealing everyone of them – but from my perspective – it’s Nurse given what we saw this season. His perceived value likely outweighs his actual value by quite a bit. I’m way more comfortable dealing him now after watching him for a season. Elite tools but it’s a real question whether he will be able to actually put it all together- and yes it’s probably 2nd pair upside. I’d actually say trade Reinhart first – but he’s the GMs first big deal – and I can’t see any GM giving up that quickly.

  118. Skeeziks says:

    The oft heard statement ‘trade so and so’ is incredibly wide open. To decide whether it is a good idea to make a trade you must know all the players involved. You must also understand the impact which the players involved will have on your team both now and in the future.

    LT repeatedly states that you have to wait 5 years to know whether a particular player you draft was a good or bad decision. It is the same for trades.

    Is the trade being made for the here and now or is it being made with an eye to the future. If we trade Nurse and he becomes an all-star in 5 years, is that bad? Not if the player we receive in exchange for him is a key to winning one or more Stanley Cups in the next five years.

    Players are assets and it is very difficult not to become too attached to them as players. That is the real challenge of being an effective GM. They must see the big picture and play the long game. That is emotionally difficult and painful for fans.

  119. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    I think things are being misconstrued, and that’s not unusual around here these days.

    The media tells us changes are coming. They are possibly right.

    We speculate on potential “hard targets” to acquire. And what the ask might be.

    So we consider what Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Yak, Nurse, Klefbom might fetch in a trade. Friedman says McDavid and Draisaitl are untouchable, after all.

    We have the makings for a reasonable discussion. Are they good players? Yes. Do we wish things were better so we wouldn’t even have to contemplate trading them? Absolutely. But this is where we are and we should have a discussion.

    One or two vocal minorities say the player in question isn’t very good and next thing you know this site gets polarized into two camps: the crazies who want to trade a great young player and the math guys who would keep all their shiny toys.

    And that’s a damn shame. Other than one or two people I see no one saying we SHOULD trade Nurse, or Eberle, or Hall or Nuge for that matter.

    There are a few of us: G Money, me, etc. Who would like to entertain the question: what would get Hamonic or a Faulk or whatever hard target you have? What do the Oilers have to give up? It’s not because we want to trade away these valuable pieces but 10 years out of the playoffs here we are.

    LT himself said the turn north has to come sooner, during the ELC of McDavid and I agree. No doubt we will lament trading Nurse in 3 years if he is the piece that goes. But the Oilers are out of rope and waiting 3 more years for Klef, Nurse, Reinhart and Chychrun (all lefties by the way) to arrive could prove to be far more costly to the team.

    That’s all. Just wanted a fair and balanced discussion without name-calling or dragging players through the mud or having two camps at odds with each other.

    I love Nurse. Don’t want to see him gone. LHD is an area of excess for this team. RHD is a glaring weakness. Same for RW actually. That’s why I don’t trade Eberle.
    LW: 3 strong players
    C: 3 strong players
    RW: 1 strong player
    LHD: 5 strong players
    RHD: 1 strong player (Fayne)

    We all talk about balance around here yet seem unwilling to consider trading from strength to add to weakness.

    Sure if you can offersheet Trouba and sign Demers, great. But odds of that all playing out are slim.

    And odds Chia does nothing on the trade front this summer are also slim. So isn’t it worth having the discussion?

    Let’s not be at each other’s throats because we would consider what it might cost management to bring balance to this team.

  120. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Agree 100%.

    I don’t want to trade any of the toys. Not Yak. Not Ebs. Not Nurse. Not RNH/Drai/Hall. I’m OK with it, for the right return, because damnit I’m tired of being shit on by people when I tell them who I cheer for. I got to experience cheering for a winning WHL team this year; it made me realise how much more fun I could be having watching Oilers games.

    I’m more interested in trying to think about what the management will do. I don’t think they’ll trade Nurse, even for Hamonic. If they do I’ll be weirdly impressed because to me that would take bigger stones than trading Ebs Yak or the pick would, given the City we play in and the overarching message about the team in the press.

  121. slopitch says:

    Stumbled across this today. Michelle Jenneke full warmup and race in HD https://vimeo.com/46047104

  122. delooper says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:

    So we consider what Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Yak, Nurse, Klefbom might fetch in a trade. Friedman says McDavid and Draisaitl are untouchable, after all.

    When your team’s primary weakness is D, it doesn’t make sense to trade away one of your soon-to-be best defenders to acquire a better defensive core. That’s the kind of a trade you make if you’re committed to losing.

    Hopefully the Oilers can acquire a good free agent over the summer. Or they can trade away a quality winger + extras to acquire a defender.

  123. kinger_OIL says:

    Water Fire,

    – Another “no-offsider” ! Yeah! On offence: no off-side. Only on power-play.

    -Only off-side if more than one guy ahead of puck (so that those split second doopsy-doodles at line don’t get whistled off because buddy’s skate is a milisecond ahead of puckholder.)

    – NFL is way more fan-friendly with guys throwing 5 TD’s a game, 400 yards offence, a bunch of really good QB’s vs. the old 20 backs who all ran for 100 yards/gam, 1000 yard season and punched it through the end-zone with ball control. NFL figured out what their TV audience wants.

    – North-American fans like scoring and athletic plays!

    – I hate the : “boards battle, throw it in front of net and chaos goal”

  124. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    delooper,

    Your reply makes me think you didn’t really read my comment, but perhaps glossed over it?

    Where’s the strength on wing? LW is set but the 3LW is Maroon and that’s perfect. Move one of them and it’s no longer a strength RW has Eberle and nothing else Trade him away and you’re looking for a 25-30 goal first line RW.

    The Oilers’ greatest strength, ironically, is the LHD pipeline depth.

  125. prairieschooner says:

    For those who missed it Dave Jamieson threw LT a bone when LT had him on just before Jamiesons show.LT asked if we had any news about Nurse and Jamieson said” I can help with that” he then gave LT a mini scoop that …name drop Tia Nurse had texted him that Darnell was going to be OK
    Poor LT even local news is holding off until Jamiesons show comes on.

  126. frjohnk says:

    Ive done this before ( comparing Ristolainen last year to Nurse this year, Risto is a 94 birthday, Nurse is a 95 birthday)

    Rookies playing on bad teams and then thrown into the deep end will not show well. ( Ive showed earlier today, that when the team backed off of Nurse’s minutes and quality of competition, his numbers have improved, so we have seen improvement by Nurse in season already)

    5 on 5
    ___________________GP_G__A___Pts
    20142015Ristolainen___78__2___6___8
    20152016Darnell.Nurse_68__2___3___5

    P60
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 0.38
    Darnell.Nurse 0.26

    IPP ( Individual points percentage)
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 29.6%
    Darnell.Nurse 12.5%

    CF%
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 36.89
    Darnell.Nurse 45.5

    Individual high scoring chances created
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 10
    Darnell.Nurse 15

    High Scoring Chance For%
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 40.23
    Darnell.Nurse 43.1

    HSCA60
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 14.68
    Darnell.Nurse 13.82

    Individual scoring chances created
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 36
    Darnell.Nurse 72

    Scoring Chance For%
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 36.82
    Darnell.Nurse 46.69

    % of HSCF created by player when on ice ( Dmen league average is 4%)
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 4.81%
    Darnell.Nurse 7.39%

    % of SCF created by player when on ice ( Dmen league average is 11.3%)
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 8.39%
    Darnell.Nurse 14.17%

    % of shots for taken by player when on ice ( Dmen league average is 14%)
    Rasmus.Ristolainen 17.12%
    Darnell.Nurse 21.14%

    Other than the 3 more second assists that Ristolainen had and having a better individual points percentage when on ice, Nurse beats him in every category. Now Buffalo’s team last year was worse than Edmonton’s team this year and a lot of the on ice metrics reflect this when comparing these two players.

    For example

    Ristolainen’s on ice differential of
    High Scoring Chance +-
    of -101 was 1798 best of all Dmen seasons who have played since 2010, or 3rd worst

    Scoring Chance +-
    of -307 was 1801st best of all Dmen seasons since 2010 ( actually it was the worst scoring chance differential of all Dmen who played since 2010)

    corsi +-
    of -620 was 1801 best of all Dmen seasons who have played since 2010. OK, its the worst corsi +- since 2010. Myers 14-15 season of -487 was 2nd worst.

    This year, Ristolainen has improved and he is playing with better players/team, but when looking at on ice metrics such as corsi 45%, high danger scoring chances 48.2%, scoring chances 46.6%, he is still drowning. His points/60 is 0.74 ( 5 on 5) is ranked 80th for Dmen with more than 30 games played. What helps him, is that he is an PP specialist ( 21 points this year)

    Young Dmen on rebuilding teams take time to progress. We don’t know what we have in Nurse, as he has been surrounded by a team where many of the players ( including him) have tried to punch above their weight. I understand the reasoning for trading Nurse ( a guy this year who punched above his weight) for Hamonic who is a guy that can help push the needle farther next year.

    But I see a glimmer of untapped offensive from Nurse. His work ethic is second to none and no mountain to too big for him. He will train and study like a mad man this summer. And I would not be surprised to see him make a jump offensively next year like he did in his 2nd year in the OHL. I don’t think he will be a number 1 stud offensive Dman, but don’t think he will just be a face punching 3rd pairing Dman either.

    I believe he will become the Dman who can break up the cycle, who can skate the puck out of trouble, make a good pass to our forwards, have some offensive while being a nasty presence on the backend.

    As for those who would trade him so the team could turn North quicker, would you be OK to see him as a Flame?

  127. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Getting rid of offsides is a great big Pandora’s Box that would change the fundamentals of the game. I for one am not interested in lacrosse on ice. Attackers entering the zone in synch with the puck is part of the game’s art.

    I would however like to see the whistles put back in the hands of the linesmen rather than this Zapruder-film examination of every zone entry (but only after the puck winds up in the net). Bad zone entries that lead to no goals are not corrected for time on clock, while there are no do-overs on offsiides blown in error (eg the end of the Ducks game). The new wrinkle has taken well over 30 goals off the board, most of them perfectly good goals like the one that got waved off in Ottawa last night for a lifted skate on freezefame. Yet another “innovation” that does nothing but kill offence.

    Short version: keep offsides, but don’t tighten the screws on them unnecessarily.

  128. jonrmcleod says:

    Gregor doesn’t see anything unusual about MacT not being in Edmonton on Wednesday evening.

    http://oilersnation.com/2016/4/8/oilers-this-and-that

  129. leadfarmer says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Keep offsides, make nets bigger. Enforce the damn rules. If I guy chips the puck past you it is interference to play him instead of the puck. Make it an automatic penalty for making contact with a player that has a step on you. No more of this get your stick in their hands from 6 feet behind the player. Make it the only option that player has is to catch up to him before making physical contact

  130. Spoils says:

    If we are saying IDEAL best case 2018 or 2019 team that would win cups – I’d look for this. I’d think the 2017 pick has the most value right now since people can bet we will finish last if they want. The 2016 pick might have the most value AFTER the lottery, but before the draft.

    I’d go after 20/21 year old DMen either on teams or in the AHL that have a chance to become #1s. Can someone generate that list. The hole on wing and extra center can be addressed through free agency. the botttom guys through development in our system. the goalie picked up for the 2018 top pick at the trade deadline before the run (plucking from a team that will miss the playoffs but has a better goalie than Talbot)…

    XXX – McDavid – Leon
    Hall – Nuge – Eberle
    Pouliot – XXX – Yakupov
    XXX – XXX – XXX

    XXX – XXX
    Klefbom – Nurse
    Davidson – Sekera

    XXX
    Talbot

  131. Skeeziks says:

    Just read that Demers had a stroke earlier this week. He is progressing well. That is great.

    Now even potential targets for RHD are suffering from the Oiler malady curse.

    Guess I should have stated ‘just kidding’ in case comments are misinterpreted.

  132. RexLibris says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    I’m with you on offsides. I liked them allowing two line passes because the old way of doing it was just asinine, but blueline offside is, as you say, an integral part of the game that forces a measure of strategy and responsible play.

    Another thought, and this is just me throwing out some zany, off-the-top-of-head kind of stuff, but what if they called interference and hooking that didn’t have to end in a player dropping to the ice like a ten-pound bag of cement?

    What I’m seeing a lot of, and this isn’t limited to Oilers games, is that a player will be hooked or otherwise impeded by another through use of that player’s stick when the offending player has stopped skating. Now, I may be some country rube from the backwater of Edmonton, but I’m reptty darned sure that that fits the description of hooking and or interference, depending on the position of the players involved.

    Oh, and I almost forgot, an obligatory “sorry, but”.

  133. Quinlan says:

    Skeeziks:
    Just read that Demers had a stroke earlier this week. He is progressing well. That is great.

    Now even potential targets for RHD are suffering from the Oiler malady curse.

    Ha! Is this a joke or…?

    Jaques Demers!

  134. stevezie says:

    Video off-sides are dumb on a fundamental level.

    Folks say, “don’t you want the correct call?” Confuse the letter for the spirit.

    Off-sides prevent cherry picking. If someone breaks the plane two inches before the puck, it doesn’t matter. Human linesman enforce the spirit, video reviews slow the game down and encourage stingy linesman with no reward.

  135. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Spoils:
    If we are saying IDEAL best case 2018 or 2019 team that would win cups – I’d look for this. I’d think the 2017 pick has the most value right now since people can bet we will finish last if they want. The 2016 pick might have the most value AFTER the lottery, but before the draft.

    I’d go after 20/21 year old DMen either on teams or in the AHL that have a chance to become #1s. Can someone generate that list. The hole on wing and extra center can be addressed through free agency. the botttom guys through development in our system. the goalie picked up for the 2018 top pick at the trade deadline before the run (plucking from a team that will miss the playoffs but has a better goalie than Talbot)…

    XXX – McDavid – Leon
    Hall – Nuge – Eberle
    Pouliot – XXX – Yakupov
    XXX – XXX – XXX

    XXX – XXX
    Klefbom – Nurse
    Davidson – Sekera

    XXX
    Talbot

    McDavid, Drai, Nuse, Yak, and Davidson will all be on new contracts by then, and I would bet they are all more expensinve, some quite a bit more expensive. Don’t see how that fits under the cap with a $4million backup goalie and a $5.5million 6th Dman.

  136. Melman says:

    I must be getting old: At first I thought the title of this post was “Breaking the Wind”

  137. Spoils says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    ya, cap is a real challenge. for example – could we try and sign yak and nurse now to longer mid value contracts and sell them on the fact that they MIGHT not pan out so better off taking cash now.

    also – i bet the oilers could go to the core group and say – look – you have a chance to win cups – is winning important to you – can you give a little.

    if 5/6 say yes you could always trade the holdout.

  138. hunter1909 says:

    godot10:
    The Oilers were looking for Nurse for a decade, and as soon as they trade him, they will be looking for Nurse for another decade.

    When Nurse was slotted in the 3rd pairing with a mediocre competent veteran, he did fine.When he was move up the roster he didn’t.When he was paired with a tweener on the 3rd pairing he didn’t do particularly well.

    So play him with a mediocre competent veteran on the 3rd pairing and he will be fine.

    How many rebuilding teams fail after trading away the very prospects which come with the territory of finishing bottom 5 in the NHL?

    Montreal’s GM Sam Pollock kept 2 genuine dynasties afloat by trading slightly past their prime stars to incompetent(much like these Oilers) expansion franchises – while getting to draft a player like Guy Lafleur in return.

    A part of me hopes all the fans calling to trade Nurse wake up tomorrow as Canuck fans.

  139. frjohnk says:

    hunter1909: A part of me hopes all the fans calling to trade Nurse wake up tomorrow as Canuck fans.

    You might not be far off.

    I’m sure there are some fans who want us to lose to the Canucks and have the Leafs win or make it to OT, so we get a better lottery chance.

  140. LMHF#1 says:

    Any chance for a real blockbuster involving the Oilers and Canadiens?

    With all that happened this year, there’s an appetite for a shakeup on both teams. There seems to be smoke on the Subban front.

    What would it take to get Subban AND Galchenyuk? Heaven and Earth? Hall, Nurse, #1? Hall, Hopkins, Nurse?

    Galchenyuk unlocks Yakupov. No doubt in my mind.

  141. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    frjohnk: You might not be far off.

    I’m sure there are some fans who want us to lose to the Canucks and have the Leafs win or make it to OT, so we get a better lottery chance.

    I never want to lose to Vancouver. Ever. I hope they put up another 6 spot.

  142. fifthcartel says:

    jonrmcleod,

    Seems like too much smoke for there not to be fire. Maybe not this year like he says due to contracts, but I’d be surprised if Howson/MacT are here summer of 2017.

  143. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    LMHF#1,

    9 million dollar D I wouldn’t give up much more than Sekera (for salary purposes) and this year’s 1st for Subban and their 1st

    Great player but way too much money in a world where we soon have to pay McDavid.

  144. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Melman:
    I must be getting old:At first I thought the title of this post was “Breaking the Wind”

    You aren’t alone.

  145. hunter1909 says:

    LMHF#1:
    Any chance for a real blockbuster involving the Oilers and Canadiens?

    With all that happened this year, there’s an appetite for a shakeup on both teams. There seems to be smoke on the Subban front.

    What would it take to get Subban AND Galchenyuk? Heaven and Earth? Hall, Nurse, #1? Hall, Hopkins, Nurse?

    Galchenyuk unlocks Yakupov. No doubt in my mind.

    I had a great time when I saw the Habs v Detroit from the nosebleeds..

    Thank you for coming up with a positive Yakupov proposal.

  146. LMHF#1 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    LMHF#1,

    9 million dollar D I wouldn’t give up much more than Sekera (for salary purposes) and this year’s 1st for Subban and their 1st

    Great player but way too much money in a world where we soon have to pay McDavid.

    I’m not so sure – the possiblilty of a PPG defenceman and powerplay QB for the McDavid window might be too much to pass up.

    I’d rather make the deal bigger than it just be Subban though. Shake up the mix on both sides.

  147. frjohnk says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I never want to lose to Vancouver. Ever. I hope they put up another 6 spot.

    100% with you.

    I cheer for 4 teams on TV.

    1. Oilers
    2. Jets ( sorry Pouzar)
    3. any team that plays against the Flames
    4. if “any team” is Canucks, I throw TV into the garbage.

  148. Snowman says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I never want to lose to Vancouver. Ever. I hope they put up another 6 spot.

    This. I hate those guys.

    Also the hockey gords don’t reward tanking. Only honest incompetence. And besides I want Laine.

    All arrows point to crushing the Dys.

  149. dustrock says:

    Oates on Gretzky and what we can still learn from him:

    http://www.theplayerstribune.com/adam-oates-nhl-wayne-gretzky-skill-in-hockey/

  150. KPooL says:

    Fully appreciate the discussion on making the NHL more exciting, but I really don’t think just reducing the size of the goalie equipment or increasing the size of the net is even close to enough.

    It cant hurt, but adding a few more goals from shots that were previously saveable doesn’t fix the style of play that the NHL has evolved into. Would a few more goals a game, with the same suffocating style of play really make the games all that more interesting to watch?

    More needs to be done to help fix the actual gameplay. Calling penalties that should be called would of course would help, but that is not enough.

    I don’t have the answer, but I think Bruce’s (and others) idea of having 3 points for a regulation win might be the best idea and easiest to implement. How has there not been more talk about this in the MSM?!??

    There has to be more ideas like this floating around that would open up the style of play as opposed to just adding a few more goals that were previously saves?!?!

  151. theres oil in virginia says:

    Melman:
    I must be getting old:At first I thought the title of this post was “Breaking the Wind”

    That’s the title of the comments section.

  152. CrazyCoach says:

    Hey LT and Co.

    Fighting major jet lag today, but watched the Rexall farewell this AM. Nice!

    Speaking of NCAA, a young fellow I used to coach is starting for the Bobcats in tomorrow’s final Vs. UND.http://quinnipiacbobcats.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3957

    Go Mike!

  153. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    ***SPAM ALERT*** : Just so you know I actually do NOT WANT to trade Nurse; I was merely contemplating the possibilities, here’s a link to my game report from Pencticton (and my photos) for Bruce McCurdy at Cult of Hockey.

    Hat tip to Bruce for letting me contribute.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/darnell-nurse-stood-out-like-the-evening-star-on-a-still-desert-night-guest-poster-george-nobechi-reports-from-penticton-3

  154. Unwashed Oilfan says:

    The Truth and Reconciliation Commission has acknowledged shocking details about the violence of Canada’s near past. Deepening poverty and inequality are a scar on the country’s present. And Canada’s record on climate change is a crime against humanity’s future.

    That last sentence enrages me. This is the opening salvo on the website for the Leap Manifesto. Crime against humanity’s future. A country which is carbon neutral according to many environmentalists and scientist, using formulas of fact based upon area of our wild-lands and wetlands. A country who contributes less than 2% of carbon emissions globally. The rail industry alone in China contributes more than Canada. In NE BC, we are selling off prime agriculture land to European corporations for carbon credits. maybe we should stop this act and offer them to our own Canadian corporations. Oh, Canada, what have you done. NDP’s and Liberals. 🙁

  155. KPooL says:

    Unwashed Oilfan,

    This seems entirely relevant to any one of the many discussions going on here today!

  156. Johnny Larue says:

    Unwashed Oilfan:
    The Truth and Reconciliation Commission has acknowledged shocking details about the violence of Canada’s near past. Deepening poverty and inequality are a scar on the country’s present. And Canada’s record on climate change is a crime against humanity’s future.

    That last sentence enrages me.This is the opening salvo on the website for the Leap Manifesto.Crime against humanity’s future.A country which is carbon neutral according to many environmentalists and scientist, using formulas of fact based upon area of our wild-lands and wetlands.A country who contributes less than 2% of carbon emissions globally.The rail industry alone in China contributes more than Canada.In NE BC, we are selling off prime agriculture land to European corporations for carbon credits.maybe we should stop this act and offer them to our own Canadian corporations.Oh, Canada, what have you done.NDP’s and Liberals.

    If anyone is looking to leap I know a perfect bridge.

  157. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Unwashed Oilfan,

    Gee, politics on a spring Friday evening? Come on, man. We talk economics and markets sometimes for the benefit of people here in their life-planning, but we always try to keep the politics and religion out of it. There’s just zero upside and nothing but potential for a tire fire on this site.

  158. Johnny Larue says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Are you suggesting Justin Faulk is one of the top 4 d-men in the game? I’ll look for him on the All-Star team in that case. (I’ll also look for Hall)

    Late comer but your on fire Bruce totally agree and also in regards to loser point . Only time delayed 5 hours

  159. Johnny Larue says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    Sorry couldn’t help myself . I always wanted to say that to the leap crowd .And Iam sorry sorry I am from LT’s vintage.

  160. Johnny Larue says:

    godot10:
    The Oilers need to add defensemen…two defensemen.Adding while simultaneously subtracting is NOT addition.

    The ways to add D are
    1) Money (UFA’s)
    2) Trading forwards
    3) Trading the 1st round draft pick
    4) Offer sheets (trading future draft picks)

    I do all of these before I trade existing D.

    If I trade an existing D, there has to be a clear upgrade in the quality of the D and the value for money of the contract coming in.

    It is next to impossible to upgrade on Klefbom at his price point unless the opposing GM makes a horrible deal.It would take Pieterangelo to make me think about trading Klefbom.

    I’m not trading Nurse.I’m playing him on the 3rd pairing with a legit veteran.

    I’m interested in Hamonic for a forward or draft picks.I would be willing to include Fayne in the deal and retain salary. It might have to be a three-way. I have no interest in Hamonic if it costs Klefbom or Nurse.I move on to plan B and C. (Demers only costs money.Trouba and Vatanen can be offer-sheeted)

    This all day . No way I trade Nurse and luckily I think management agrees. Also after all the suffering I am loathe to trade any of our booty without a large return think Hall Karlson. That said I am more optimistic than most With the cap staying flat and us losing dead wood (Niki) I still think that teams are going to have tossed salary and draft picks will be valuble currency think Boychuk

  161. jimmers2 says:

    Магия 10,

    That is probably it. Stan had to dig up his old gear bag stowed away in a long forgotten dusty locker from the Northlands era. He tore the skate tongue out with his teeth and laced Nurse’s larynx up with that and his old skate lace. If, as expected, Nurse’s voice becomes a permanent rattling groan, one glare and bark from him will be enough to make pretty much any palooka or poser turn away. Nurse might never have to throw a punch again unless, you, know, he feels like it.

  162. Madtown Oil says:

    Would anyone trade 6 years of Nurse for one year of Harmonic?

    This is a possibility with expansion draft. Good organizations manage assets for long term…not short term..

  163. JimmyV1965 says:

    Loyal2theoil,

    Thanks Loyal. Interesting reads. Fowler maybe not as good as I thought.

  164. Evilas says:

    CrazyCoach:
    Hey LT and Co.

    Fighting major jet lag today, but watched the Rexall farewell this AM.Nice!

    Speaking of NCAA,a young fellow I used to coach is starting for the Bobcats in tomorrow’s final Vs. UND.http://quinnipiacbobcats.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3957

    Go Mike!

    He has a very impressive resume. even though he is an older prospect I bet he will have a lot of suitors.

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