TOP NINE LEAGUE

Earlier today, Isabelle Khurshudyan of the Washington Post had an excellent quote from Capitals general manager Brian MacLellan:

  • “You know, we’ve talked about it: It’s turned into a top-nine league. I don’t know that we had a pure top nine. Maybe we had a top eight or a top seven-and-a-half or however you want to value that, but I think we were a little short on the top nine. I think you need two-way guys, guys who can play both ways. Ideally for us, I think we need some offense out of it.” Source

This is a really insightful passage. As you know, I have been rambling on forever about adding a Pisani—and the Capitals GM feels his team needs that guy, too. The top-nine league is something we have discussed at length—but we usually chat about adding another offensive player to the mix.

Edmonton’s department of youth is low on two-way talents. I would rate RNH as a bona fide two-way center, and Connor McDavid is such a smart player (and fast) it is a good bet he will be a 200-foot center for a long time. After that? Hall has become more responsible (I will credit Dallas Eakins with getting that ball rolling), Benoit Pouliot is a fine forechecker while Patrick Maroon may be able to hack a few ties. Leon Draisaitl? Suspect he will get there.

  • Pouliot—McDavid—Eberle
  • Hall—Nuge—Loui Eriksson
  • Maroon—Draisaitl—Kris Versteeg

If only it didn’t cost so much! The solution? Some of those draft picks (Tobias Rieder, Magnus Paajarvi, Tyler Pitlick, Curtis Hamilton) needed to be signed and or find their way to productive NHL jobs. Washington is looking to add one or two complementary bodies, I think Edmonton has too few two-way types (Nuge, Pouliot) to contend. We wait.

My friend Bruce McCurdy has a nice writeup on last night’s freakout by the Knights and a lot of good insight into Matt Tkachuk and Olli Juolevi. Bruce will join me tomorrow to discuss, the Knights likely to make the Q look foolish in Central Alberta this evening.

Note: People are getting their opinions in a knot about Matt Tkachuk and the possibility of his being drafted by the Oilers. First, we are miles from knowing. Second, I do think Dubois has more range as a two-way player and should be the pick, but there are lots of things we do not know. If you listen to Peter Chiarelli’s words, I think it is reasonable to suggest Edmonton might prefer to trade down (with something for Arizona), grab No. 7 and Connor Murphy and use the pick on Sergachev or Juolevi. I believe it could happen just that way.

winquist williams3

BAKERSFIELD FORENSIC FILES

Eric Rodgers is at it again! Although the Barons moved from OKC, he ran his estimates long distance and published them here. Fabulous work, please click through and read. I am going to borrow liberally but there is a mountain of information in that link. I will have more tomorrow, but wanted to publish some year over year comparisons (I talked about last year’s numbers here). These are estimated points per 60 in all disciplines.

Forwards

  1. L Josh Winquist: Spiked from 1.98 to 3.35 this year.
  2. R Tyler Pitlick: Down slightly from 2.27 to 2.13 this year.
  3. C Jujhar Khaira: Up from 1.06 to 2.05 this year.
  4. C Bogdan Yakimov: Down from 1.87 to 1.58 this year.
  5. L Mitch Moroz: Up from 0.93 to 0.99 this year.
  6. L Kale Kessy: Down from 1.56 to 0.96 this year.

Defense

  1. D Jordan Oesterle: Up from 1.30 to 1.61 this year.
  2. D Dillon Simpson: Up from 0.88 to 1.30 this year.
  3. D David Musil: Up from 0.66 to 0.69 this year.

Quick hits:

  • Sign Josh Winquist!
  • JJ Khaira looks pretty good year over year.
  • Tyler Pitlick should keep trying for that NHL career.
  • Bogdan Yakimov needs more lumber.
  • Jordan Oesterle improved year over year, might have an NHL career.
  • Dillon Simpson keeps improving, has since he left the AJHL.
  • David Musil’s offense is not substantial.

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92 Responses to "TOP NINE LEAGUE"

  1. LadiesloveSmid says:

    EDM really does not have enough two way forwards, and as a Nuge lover I sometimes think even his defensive game is a bit overrated by oiler fans. Pick Dubois and let him pummel the Q for another season, furthering his 2-way game even more. His buddy Svechnikov will remain in Cape Breton for the next decade (Detroit model) to pad his numbers. I think PLD is just what EDM needs up front.

    Winquist was even scoring at a 1st line rate last season. Get him an NHL contract.

    What was Davidson’s P/60 like last season in OKC and the year before? I have time for Musil

  2. Centre of attention says:

    Sign Winquist? Nonsense! How about Ryan Hamilton? Great idea! Oh, those Oilers. Seriously though, Cagguila’s signing does not bode well for young Winquist.

    On another note I really like your trade down idea LT. Connor Murphy or Michael Stone would be great adds. I wonder what the “something for Arizona” will be? Please please please take Korpikoski back…

  3. frjohnk says:

    Wonder if the Oilers would go after Troy Brouwer.
    Big,physical, right shot, can play center , can play power play, penalty kill.
    He would be a great pickup (if the cost was right) for the middle six.

    I think Brouwer would check off a few boxes for us.

  4. hunter1909 says:

    Maroon is the kind of player that championship teams like to keep handy.

    Come to think of it, how did he end up in Edmonton?

  5. Melman says:

    Good write up LT. Someone (poster?) mentioned the other day that to win it all you need 3 scoring lines and a checking line. Seems pretty accurate as depth gets more crucial each round.

    If you plug Tkachuk/Dubois in on the 3RW that gets things cheaper, but also lands you in the “oh those Oilers, rushing their prospects” territory. It also underscores the importance of getting the D improved without gutting the Fs

  6. Melman says:

    frjohnk,

    *clap clap*

  7. Centre of attention says:

    hunter1909:
    Maroon is the kind of player that championship teams like to keep handy.

    Come to think of it, how did he end up in Edmonton?

    Anaheim wanted Jamie McGinn and Pirri as lefty options. They saw Maroon as expendable, expendable enough where they would take next to nothing and retain salary.

  8. Lynas1 says:

    Doesn’t make one bit of sense to me to be looking to trade down to draft a D this year. A player like Dubois is more what we need to change the character of the team than a D that might take two or more seasons to even make it to the NHL. We’ve also got Klefbom really coming into his own, Nurse a year older, and other good D prospects developing already (Oesterle, Bear, Jones, etc.). Just my opinion.

  9. Centre of attention says:

    Melman:
    Good write up LT.Someone (poster?) mentioned the other day that to win it all you need 3 scoring lines and a checking line.Seems pretty accurate as depth gets more crucial each round.

    Fun fact:

    “3 scoring lines and a reliable checking line” was mentioned by MacT, and he also forgot to mention you need an NHL caliber D-core as well. It almost sounds like he was managing the Oilers at one point, haha.

  10. godot10 says:

    From McCurdy’s piece
    //The surprising thing was how often Tkachuk got wide open for a great scoring chance. He must have had at least four or five full or partial breakaways, a combination of well-timed bursts from the winger, terrific passes/stretch passes from teammates, …..
    On the rare occasions that the puck went back into London’s end, Tkachuk was frequently the high forward out at or even beyond the centre red line. Some might see it as cherry picking, but to me it was a tactic as London clearly was trying to stretch out the defence. And succeeding.//

    Tkachuk CANNOT play that way in the NHL at even strength. Hunter his disguising Tkachuk’s (at best) mediocre skating by letting him play half court all the time. How much energy will he have to expend when he will have to haul ass back in the NHL, and the try to keep up with McDavid the other way.

    That, and he is a winger only, and much older than Dubois, who is a centre.

    Buyer beware. How long have many been complaining about the Oilers forwards cheating for offense and not coming all the way back. Marner and Dvorak and the elite London defense cover for Tkachuk. He is elite from the faceoff circles in but a potential dud on the remaining 150 feet. #NOTABROADRANGEOFSKILLS

    #TeamDubois

  11. Ducey says:

    Winquist would be a waste of an NHL contract.

    He is not the two way player the Oilers need. He is not going to be top 6 and won’t get PP time. He is not a Pisani.

    We have seen this movie lots of times – small, one way players don’t impact the game enough – see Derek Roy, Mark Arcobello, Andrew Miller.

  12. slopitch says:

    I quite like the Connor Murphy suggestion LT. He is the kind of dick head dman (that can play) that the oilers need. I think Chai could do that and draft Brown. Adding a proper two way guy would let them acquire a Barrie type that IMO would struggle without shelter on this porous d lineup.

    4 for Murphy/Brown
    Reinhart/Yak for Barrie
    Full roster with 2 way depth (I like Eriksson, worry about long term cap fit so be frugal)

    That might be playoffs if 97/93 stay healthy

  13. Ducey says:

    I’d add that if the Oilers want to add depth, invite a few NHL vets to camp on a tryout. A Lee Stempniak (whoever that guy will be this year) is a better use of a contract than Winquist,

  14. Water Fire says:

    frjohnk:
    Wonder if the Oilers would go after Troy Brouwer.
    Big,physical, right shot, can play center , can play power play, penalty kill.
    He would be a great pickup (if the cost was right) for the middle six.

    I think Brouwer would check off a few boxes for us.

    He has been great and is this post season’s lottery winner and cap mistake. The only pitch is have a chance to play with Connor and we’ll pay you 2.5 X 2 for it. And you have to ditch Korpse’s corpse.

  15. Lowetide says:

    slopitch:
    I quite like the Connor Murphy suggestion LT. He is the kind of dick head dman (that can play) that the oilers need. I think Chai could do that and draft Brown.Adding a proper two way guy would let them acquire a Barrie type that IMO would struggle without shelter on this porous d lineup.

    4 for Murphy/Brown
    Reinhart/Yak for Barrie
    Full roster with 2 way depth (I like Eriksson, worry about long term cap fit so be frugal)

    That might be playoffs if 97/93 stay healthy

    McLeod mentioned his name to me, Stone had been my preference but this guy is an interesting player for sure.

  16. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Ducey,

    is Winquist supposed to be poor defensively? they shouldn’t have signed Caggiula if small projected bottom 6 guys are useless

  17. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Winquist is less than a year older than Cagguila. If Caggiula has a near P/G season like Winquist in BAK that’s considered a win, right?

  18. Gret99zky says:

    1) #TeamDubois

    2) #TeamTradeDownForD

  19. JimmyV1965 says:

    Nurse and Murphy together would be a nasty piece of business. I remember cursing at him a few times this year for laying out some of our guys. My only concern would be his injury history.

  20. square_wheels says:

    Just catching up, tough day around these parts……

    Downie has provided me so much joy and more importantly, introspection through his lyrics. I can recall vividly my first time in New Orleans hanging with locals from work, some dark back alley out of the way blues bars thinking – now I get where the soul of their music comes from. It’s from a deep, dark, and dirty baked into the concrete by thousands of musicians before them, well of travelling bands that has past through NOLA. Genius caught the disease down there, we’ve been blessed for decades because of it.

    I won’t “rate” albums, they’re not lists anyone should make from 1-10…..just enjoy it, whatever the hell “it” is for you.

    But when I look at my most played list, Day for Night is always near the top. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant album.

    Fuck Cancer (decal from the charity) adornes the top tube of the bike I ride to work everyday, going to be another early am ride contemplating what I’m going to do when it finally does Fuck Me…..cuz it seems to find a way to get every family.

    Fuck Cancer. Seriously, fuck it harder than Bookije (btw where is Mr Summers these days??)

  21. JimmyV1965 says:

    Lynas1:
    Doesn’t make one bit of sense to me to be looking to trade down to draft a D this year.A player like Dubois is more what we need to change the character of the team than a D that might take two or more seasons to even make it to the NHL.We’ve also got Klefbom really coming into his own, Nurse a year older, and other good D prospects developing already (Oesterle, Bear, Jones, etc.).Just my opinion.

    Totally agree with this. If we do trade down, I would prefer we take Logan Brown. We have lots of defensive prospects now. The big question is if Brown is available.

  22. stush18 says:

    Ducey:
    Winquist would be a waste of an NHL contract.

    He is not the two way player the Oilers need. He is not going to be top 6 and won’t get PP time. He is not a Pisani.

    We have seen this movie lots of times – small, one way players don’t impact the game enough – see Derek Roy, Mark Arcobello, Andrew Miller.

    Players like Hamilton and hunt are wastes of NHL contracts.

    Where have you read that he’s bad defensively? Or a poor skater? Because he’s producing at elite Scoring rates, projecting into the top nine rather than the bottom six.

    Oh and he plays centre and wing.

    I have all the time in the world for this guy. Scoring is the hardest thing to do at any level. And this guy does it in bunches. I would argue he’s a better signing than Benik and salinen.

  23. slopitch says:

    Lowetide: McLeod mentioned his name to me, Stone had been my preference but this guy is an interesting player for sure.

    Darcy and I have been dm’ing a bit. Smart lad.

    Interesting to see Crosby playing with Hornquist and Sheary. I’m not sure if the idea on Pittsburgh is to have a top 9 or if Sidney is better served playing with 2 two way guys. I would say it’s working (they are in the 3rd round) but Crosby is hardly tearing it up. What it does do is free up Malkin and Kessel. The pens moved Neal for Hornquist which on paper looks bad but Hornquist is a 2 way ace. One thing I wonder is if we will see a similar Eberle for Marchand type trade. In this case Marchand (or Kreider or Killhorn or whomever) may be too high of an ask but I’m talking in general. One of the bigger weaknesses on the oilers was puck support on RW (breakouts and defensively). I see Chai wanting to make his mark there.

  24. Clay says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Winquist is less than a year older than Cagguila. If Caggiula has a near P/G season like Winquist in BAK that’s considered a win, right?

    But Caggiula brings way moar eyeglow/60 and his girlfriend is a hard 10.

  25. Lynas1 says:

    JimmyV1965,

    If you’re looking to get Logan Brown (looking more like he’s going early first round by verbal) why not stay put and get the better option? Unless the team giving up the early pick to move up is throwing in a juicy, good fitting add on.

  26. Ducey says:

    stush18: Players like Hamilton and hunt are wastes of NHL contracts.

    Where have you read that he’s bad defensively? Or a poor skater? Because he’s producing at elite Scoring rates, projecting into the top nine rather than the bottom six.

    Oh and he plays centre and wing.

    I have all the time in the world for this guy. Scoring is the hardest thing to do at any level. And this guy does it in bunches. I would argue he’s a better signing than Benik and salinen.

    Benik is an Ahl deal. Salinen projects as bottom 6

    So who are you going play Winquist ahead of on the Oilers?

  27. Ducey says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Ducey,

    is Winquist supposed to be poor defensively? they shouldn’t have signed Caggiula if small projected bottom 6 guys are useless

    I think the hope with Caggiula is that he can play more physically and develop the two way game. Miller did not. Winquist won’t.

  28. Westchester Oil says:

    Please Chia – don’t sign Gryba for $2.5 x 4 like the Bruins did with Kevin Miller.

    #TeamDuboisOrTradeDownForADman
    #NoTkachukOrDmanAt4
    #WinquistWouldBeBetterThanOthersOn50ManRoster

  29. stush18 says:

    Ducey: Benik is an Ahl deal. Salinen projects as bottom 6

    So who are you going play Winquist ahead of on the Oilers?

    He’s a top six option in Bakersfield, and a possible top nine addition. He would have been more effective than korpikoski this year.

    I’m with LT in thinking one of the lw get moved, likely pouliot and korp.

    That would leave us with
    Hall
    Maroon
    Hendricks
    Caggiula
    Slepyshev (he prefers left)

    I would move slepyshev to right wing, as its best for the oilers and his pro career. If hall is injured we have one or maybe two options in Bakersfield that can score similar to winquist.

    Give him hunts contract.

    Edit*forgot salinen. But again, doesn’t score at a rate high enough to warrant a top nine role.

  30. stush18 says:

    Ducey: Benik is an Ahl deal. Salinen projects as bottom 6

    So who are you going play Winquist ahead of on the Oilers?

    Also winquist played all three forward positions this year. He can easily play right wing just as well.

    At the start of the year he was buried beneath oilers draft picks in the depth chart. Again this year he worked his way up to the top line, scoring at a very high rate.

  31. square_wheels says:

    slopitch,

    I’ve been an advocate for refreshing our top 9 all season. We need at least 2 Pisani types.

    Give me balance or give me another top 5 pick.

  32. Ducey says:

    stush18: Also winquist played all three forward positions this year. He can easily play right wing just as well.

    At the start of the year he was buried beneath oilers draft picks in the depth chart. Again this year he worked his way up to the top line, scoring at a very high rate.

    Winquist doesnt play 200 nhl games. Nor does he project to.
    His only hope is expansion

  33. McSorley33 says:

    I taped to watch Tkachuk and came in looking for flaws….but like Bruce, I have to say I was impressed.

    Nevertheless…..he is playing with top end talent. Monster talent on that London team. One of the best junior teams ever?

    What about Dubois?

    Scoring at the same pace as the 96 year Svechnikov?

    6’3 over 200lbs you say…..yet, puts up 99 points, as a 17 year old?

    Sign me up.

    I think the org is seriously thinking of taking Juolevi at number 4 if no trade can be made.

  34. godot10 says:

    The new Ryan Hamilton contract is an AHL-only contract. He is there to show the young guys how to be a professional.

  35. Mr DeBakey says:

    I think the hope with Winquist is that he can play more physically and develop the two way game. Miller did not. Caggiula won’t.

  36. stevezie says:

    Mr DeBakey,

    Why not?

  37. Chachi says:

    I really hope that they raise the draft age to 19. There is something inherently very wrong with people acting like assholes and rushing to judge the skating abilities and career potential of 17 year old kids based on two or three viewings of them on television.

  38. stush18 says:

    Ducey: Winquist doesnt play 200 nhl games. Nor does he project to.His only hope is expansion

    You’re prolly right. No talent in predicting that. But if you are looking for prospects to sign to fill up the cupboard, there is nothing wrong with signing him. He has done all they’ve asked, and he would become one of our best scoring prospects.

    These are the players you take flyers on when signing. You can teach these guys to skate better, or to nackcheck. All it takes is a willingness to learn and work. But you can’t teach guys to score. It’s a gift, and win quiet has it

  39. geowal says:

    Ducey: Winquist doesnt play 200 nhl games. Nor does he project to.His only hope is expansion

    I see nothing wrong with getting 190 games out of a college signing. You seem to think folks are advocating for an NHL only deal, I’d expect most would like to see a 2 way contract that allow him to be a more skilled call up, in the line of Miller. He doesn’t need to play ahead of any current Oilers, just For them when they’re hurt, which can be often.

  40. David says:

    Tkachuk has a powerplay goal in the first. But what I’ve liked more is his passing which is high end. And he moves it very quickly, no hanging on to it.

  41. rickithebear says:

    Lt:
    forwards offence.

    Defence offence!

    NO! NO! NO!

    Let me push out a crazy concept for this Board!

    Defence Defence!

    they must have named them wrong! 😉

  42. David says:

    rickithebear:
    Lt:
    forwards offence.

    Defence offence!

    NO! NO! NO!

    Let me push out a crazy concept for this Board!

    Defence Defence!

    they must have named them wrong!

    I’m with you on this one. Defense is what I value most in my Defense.

  43. Mr DeBakey says:

    stevezie:
    Mr DeBakey,

    Why not?

    I just thought I’d try making an asinine, unsupported assertion – just to see how it feels.
    Its so damn popular I thought it must give an endorphin rush or something.
    It doesn’t.

    But, maybe Winquist and Caggiula will both develop strong, two-way games.

  44. dustrock says:

    David: I’m with you on this one. Defense is what I value most in my Defense.

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence the Oilers have been last in the league the last few years and last in D points.

    As 5v5 scoring drops, having an effective PP is increasingly important. Not having points from D also hurts there.

  45. Gordies Elbow says:

    David: I’m with you on this one. Defense is what I value most in my Defense.

    It’s not defense, per se, but position. Some players think the game well, but can’t skate well enough to cover (e.g. Stoll.) Yet they can cover, due to their position. Some players don’t think the game well, but have the wheels to put themselves into the right spots (e.g. Nurse, likely)

    I’ll take a crease clearing defender, if that defender is in the right spot. Playmaking slow winger? Yep, if they’re in the right spot.

    I “saw” this really well with the world championships against the Finns. Tight coverage, players in the passing lanes, pucks to the outside with puck control. Not sure what the possession stats would have been for the final game, but from my eye, they must have been pretty good.

    PS: Ricki, my thoughts are with you and your family. You’re my favorite bear, by far 😉

  46. David says:

    dustrock: I don’t think it’s a coincidence the Oilers have been last in the league the last few years and last in D points.

    As 5v5 scoring drops, having an effective PP is increasingly important. Not having points from D also hurts there.

    Of course I want them to contribute on offence. But I think an even bigger factor in our dark years is terrible defending.

  47. Professor Q says:

    Nice goal by Jones.

  48. Professor Q says:

    What the heck? I totally forgot about this account.

    Tracy Lane @TreenasOil:

    “Oilers Habs revisiting talks for Yak Oilers interested in Mccarron APG”

    11:46 p.m. 24 May 2016

  49. David says:

    Professor Q:
    Nice goal by Jones.

    Jones and Pu are having a fantastic game.

  50. PunjabiOil says:

    From McCurdy’s piece
    //The surprising thing was how often Tkachuk got wide open for a great scoring chance. He must have had at least four or five full or partial breakaways, a combination of well-timed bursts from the winger, terrific passes/stretch passes from teammates, …..
    On the rare occasions that the puck went back into London’s end, Tkachuk was frequently the high forward out at or even beyond the centre red line. Some might see it as cherry picking, but to me it was a tactic as London clearly was trying to stretch out the defence. And succeeding.//

    Tkachuk CANNOT play that way in the NHL at even strength. Hunter his disguising Tkachuk’s (at best) mediocre skating by letting him play half court all the time. How much energy will he have to expend when he will have to haul ass back in the NHL, and the try to keep up with McDavid the other way.

    That, and he is a winger only, and much older than Dubois, who is a centre.

    Buyer beware. How long have many been complaining about the Oilers forwards cheating for offense and not coming all the way back. Marner and Dvorak and the elite London defense cover for Tkachuk. He is elite from the faceoff circles in but a potential dud on the remaining 150 feet. #NOTABROADRANGEOFSKILLS

    #TeamDubois .

    Agreed with this completely.

    Tkachuk over Dubois would be a grave, grave mistake and effectively mitigate the benefits of wasting a year of Connor’s ELC and providing an abhorrent product on ice for Oiler fans to witness.

    Would rather have Sergachev or Chychrun rather than Tkachuk and neither are compelling options as they’re 2-3 years away being value added players.

    Chiarelli can’t Griffin Reinhart this.

  51. godot10 says:

    Professor Q:
    What the heck? I totally forgot about this account.

    Tracy Lane @TreenasOil:

    “Oilers Habs revisiting talks for Yak Oilers interested in Mccarron APG”

    11:46 p.m. 24 May 2016

    What the Habs want….Yakupov and #4OV(Dubois) for McCarron and #9OV.

    Tempting but I wouldn’t do it if I were Chiarelli

  52. Professor Q says:

    PunjabiOil:


    From McCurdy’s piece
    //The surprising thing was how often Tkachuk got wide open for a great scoring chance. He must have had at least four or five full or partial breakaways, a combination of well-timed bursts from the winger, terrific passes/stretch passes from teammates, …..
    On the rare occasions that the puck went back into London’s end, Tkachuk was frequently the high forward out at or even beyond the centre red line. Some might see it as cherry picking, but to me it was a tactic as London clearly was trying to stretch out the defence. And succeeding.//

    Tkachuk CANNOT play that way in the NHL at even strength. Hunter his disguising Tkachuk’s (at best) mediocre skating by letting him play half court all the time. How much energy will he have to expend when he will have to haul ass back in the NHL, and the try to keep up with McDavid the other way.

    That, and he is a winger only, and much older than Dubois, who is a centre.

    Buyer beware. How long have many been complaining about the Oilers forwards cheating for offense and not coming all the way back. Marner and Dvorak and the elite London defense cover for Tkachuk. He is elite from the faceoff circles in but a potential dud on the remaining 150 feet. #NOTABROADRANGEOFSKILLS

    #TeamDubois .

    Agreed with this completely.

    Tkachuk over Dubois would be a grave, grave mistake and effectively mitigate the benefits of wasting a year of Connor’s ELC and providing an abhorrent product on ice for Oiler fans to witness.

    It’s like masturbation without the payoff.

    Would rather have Sergachev or Chychrun rather than Tkachuk and neither are compelling options as they’re 2-3 years away being value added players.

    Chiarelli can’t Griffin Reinhart this.

    Interesting.

    McCurdy seemed to have really good words for Tkatchuk lately.

    Lots of media folk, Bruce included, have noticed that he has had a leg injury through the tournament so far and has been playing through it.

  53. Derp says:

    I was also at the game last night and would generally agree with Bruce’s take on Tkachuk. Having not seen him play before, I came away impressed and definitely don’t think he is just a passenger on that line.

    My favourite player in the game was Max Jones. If he is there at 32, I think he would be a perfect fit for this team a couple years down the road. Kind of a dink, has skill, fun to watch

  54. BONVIE says:

    David: I’m with you on this one. Defense is what I value most in my Defense.

    I always say the most important part about playing Defense is playing Defense!!! That said activating Defensemen on the forecheck is so huge with the successful teams in the NHL and even more noticeably with Team Canada. A relatively no name defense but they were constantly being activated the high forward was skating to fill the Dmans spot at the exact moment the Dman was pinching on the wall to keep the puck in play. Every shift this happened, i can’t recall one disconnect wher the Dman pinched and the forward was slow to read the play. This is so important for a dman as he has to go all in without hesitation to keep pucks in play.

    This is a real shortcoming for the Nuge and many of the wingers on the Oilers, I dont know if an Oilers D would even pinch if Yak was his highman, because he knows he would be hung out to dry and 70% of the fans would blame the D. I seen poor Fayne especially get hung out to dry and I come in on the forums to see a bunch of comments laying blame at his feet, when in reality its the high forward. The Oilers need to make sure they make more progress this year with covering for the pressing D, alao Reading a reverse and exiting weakside, and just a better back check pressure by most of the forwards especially out of the third and fourth lines get some skaters on forward that have some work ethic besides poor old man Hendricks, its pretty bad when he is about the only guy in the bottom 6 now that we traded Gordon that you can say that is hard work shift.

    I wish the Oilers would have kept their Curtis Hamilton, Hartakanen, and Rjallas we needed depth from 22-26 year olds graduating from the minors but the Oilers keep letting all of these players walk. This depth is important because then if you dont skate miles and backcheck you dont play. Last year the 3rd and 4th lines were the worst i have ever seen since I can remember. If your 3rd and 4th lines dont outwork your top lines you have a problem.

  55. Bruce McCurdy says:

    godot10:
    From McCurdy’s piece
    //The surprising thing was how often Tkachuk got wide open for a great scoring chance. He must have had at least four or five full or partial breakaways, a combination of well-timed bursts from the winger, terrific passes/stretch passes from teammates, …..
    On the rare occasions that the puck went back into London’s end, Tkachuk was frequently the high forward out at or even beyond the centre red line. Some might see it as cherry picking, but to me it was a tactic as London clearly was trying to stretch out the defence. And succeeding.//

    Tkachuk CANNOT play that way in the NHL at even strength.Hunter his disguising Tkachuk’s (at best) mediocre skating by letting him play half court all the time.How much energy will he have to expend when he will have to haul ass back in the NHL, and the try to keep up with McDavid the other way.

    That, and he is a winger only, and much older than Dubois, who is a centre.

    Buyer beware.How long have many been complaining about the Oilers forwards cheating for offense and not coming all the way back.Marner and Dvorak and the elite London defense cover for Tkachuk.He is elite from the faceoff circles in but a potential dud on the remaining 150 feet. #NOTABROADRANGEOFSKILLS

    #TeamDubois

    You missed the paragraphs about playing with an injury, eh.

    Watched him leaving the ice after the 2nd tonight & it was obvious. But that doesn’t just fit the narrative so better just to call him a 50 foot player.

  56. Professor Q says:

    It’s getting chippy out there.

    Both teams have smaller, dickish, annoying, and skilled star players who are getting on each other’s nerves. Surprisingly Marner is one of them.

    Marner vs. Meier is really interesting.

  57. PunjabiOil says:

    I don’t doubt that Tkachuk will end up a solid prospect – but math loves Dubois much, much more.

    – 20 points ahead of second leading scorer
    – Versatile – can play center or wing
    – Size at 6″3, ability to score goals (Tkachuk only had 30 despite playing with Marner and Dvorak) and has been compared to Jamie Benn or James Neal
    – Pushed the river on his team whereas concerns about Tkachuk being a passenger.
    – 7 months younger than Tkachuk

    Playing on the London Knights – scouts have to be wary. High powered offense with system plays biased towards offense, inflated point totals, massive EV and PP TOI, high quality teammates, etc.

    We’ve seen the novel with Gagner, Bolland, Kostitsyn and Schremp – all players who were:

    1. In that system
    2. Were passengers, rather than drivers, of said system.
    3. Were not able to translate the [inflated] offense at the NHL level or had deficiencies exposed at the NHL level playing outside of that system.

  58. Lowetide says:

    One thing I have a very hard time believing: Any of us can speak to the Dubois vs. Tkachuk debate with the certainty being expressed in this thread. I have Dubois ahead of Tkachuk but good lord people by any stretch the numbers are very close. I understand that friction is part of any online discussion but the more certain your argument the less certain I am of your opinion.

    This is shades of grey, folks. Not black and white.

  59. Bruce McCurdy says:

    PunjabiOil:

    Tkachuk over Dubois would be a grave, grave mistake and effectively mitigate the benefits of wasting a year of Connor’s ELC and providing an abhorrent product on ice for Oiler fans to witness.

    Would rather have Sergachev or Chychrun rather than Tkachuk and neither are compelling options as they’re 2-3 years away being value added players.

    Chiarelli can’t Griffin Reinhart this.

    Man, the certainty of some of these comments are a little rich. Scouts who have watched both guys closely are split on who is 4 and who is 5, but some dudes on the Internet are 100.0% certain that one of them is a “grave, grave mistake”.

    Please read the caveat at the bottom of my piece. I don’t know which one is better. I do know, or at least believe strongly, that shitting all over one guy because you like the other guy better doesn’t advance the conversation. Neither does drive-by slandering of Griffin Reinhart.

    EDIT: What Lowetide said while I was writing this.

  60. PunjabiOil says:

    Memorial cup:

    Marner – 15 points
    Dvorak – 12 points
    Tkachuk – 7 points – of which 5 are on the powerplay.

    Fool’s gold.

  61. Professor Q says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Memorial cup:

    Marner – 15 points
    Dvorak – 12 points
    Tkachuk – 7 points – of which 5 are on the powerplay.

    Fool’s gold.

    I’ll have you know that sulfides are very important geologically and economically.

  62. Professor Q says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Memorial cup:

    Marner – 15 points
    Dvorak – 12 points
    Tkachuk – 7 points – of which 5 are on the powerplay.

    Fool’s gold.

    Also (OHL Playoffs):

    Player Name GP G A Pts PIM

    Christian Dvorak 18 14 21 35 4
    Mitch Marner 18 16 28 44 8
    Matthew Tkachuk 18 20 20 40 42

  63. PunjabiOil says:

    Scouts who have watched both guys closely are split on who is 4 and who is 5, but some dudes on the Internet are 100.0% certain that one of them is a “grave, grave mistake”.

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure.

    We have seen countless prospects overrated based on ”intangibles” when math doesn’t support the said intangibles. It is also the intangibles, rather than underlying numbers, that are propelling Tkachuk over Dubois from the eyes of some scouts.

    Most recent draft examples includes Pavel Zacha and Lawren Crouse.

    The Florida Panthers now turning to analytics-based scouting method is just another piece of evidence that scouting is changing and market inefficiencies in the scouting world will become more difficult to exploit.

    I stand by my astute assertion that it would be a grave, grave mistake to draft Tkachuk over Dubois.

    It just would.

  64. Chachi says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing I have a very hard time believing: Any of us can speak to the Dubois vs. Tkachuk debate with the certainty being expressed in this thread. I have Dubois ahead of Tkachuk but good lord people by any stretch the numbers are very close. I understand that friction is part of any online discussion but the more certain your argument the less certain I am of your opinion.

    This is shades of grey, folks. Not black and white.

    This is wise counsel. The older I get the more I learn to distrust the opinion of people who are overly sure of themselves for no discernible reason.

  65. David says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing I have a very hard time believing: Any of us can speak to the Dubois vs. Tkachuk debate with the certainty being expressed in this thread. I have Dubois ahead of Tkachuk but good lord people by any stretch the numbers are very close. I understand that friction is part of any online discussion but the more certain your argument the less certain I am of your opinion.

    This is shades of grey, folks. Not black and white.

    Agreed

  66. BONVIE says:

    I haven’t seen Tkachuk play much at all, but the few times i have, I have not seen in his game what seems to be the narrative around here that Tkachuk can’t skate and only plays for offence. In fact I am seeing completely the opposite, watching him in the Mem Cup, Just knowing who his Dad is I cant imagine that his style of play would be one dimensional as described.

    Going by a few years ago there was alot of the same being said about Draisatel and His speed I had seen him play lots so i knew the narrative about being slow to play the NHL game was a load of crap. Draisatel was always a good skater a little rugged at times, but still fast and powerful as he was in Junior as he was in camp, as he was at the skills.

  67. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing I have a very hard time believing: Any of us can speak to the Dubois vs. Tkachuk debate with the certainty being expressed in this thread. I have Dubois ahead of Tkachuk but good lord people by any stretch the numbers are very close. I understand that friction is part of any online discussion but the more certain your argument the less certain I am of your opinion.

    This is shades of grey, folks. Not black and white.

    I’m never certain of anything.

    Keeps me humble, curious, and sceptical . 😛

  68. David says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Scouts who have watched both guys closely are split on who is 4 and who is 5, but some dudes on the Internet are 100.0% certain that one of them is a “grave, grave mistake”.

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure.

    We have seen countless prospects overrated based on ”intangibles” when math doesn’t support the said intangibles.It is also the intangibles, rather than underlying numbers, that are propelling Tkachuk over Dubois from the eyes of some scouts.

    Most recent draft examples includes Pavel Zacha and Lawren Crouse.

    The Florida Panthers now turning to analytics-based scouting method is just another piece of evidence that scouting is changing and market inefficiencies in the scouting world will become more difficult to exploit.

    I stand by my astute assertion that it would be a grave, grave mistake to draft Tkachuk over Dubois.

    It just would.

    Do you understand that the “math” loves Tkachuk. It’s just that for “reasons” it’s not allowed to count for Tkachuk.

  69. Bruce McCurdy says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Scouts who have watched both guys closely are split on who is 4 and who is 5, but some dudes on the Internet are 100.0% certain that one of them is a “grave, grave mistake”.

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure.

    We have seen countless prospects overrated based on ”intangibles” when math doesn’t support the said intangibles.It is also the intangibles, rather than underlying numbers, that are propelling Tkachuk over Dubois from the eyes of some scouts.

    Most recent draft examples includes Pavel Zacha and Lawren Crouse.

    The Florida Panthers now turning to analytics-based scouting method is just another piece of evidence that scouting is changing and market inefficiencies in the scouting world will become more difficult to exploit.

    I stand by my astute assertion that it would be a grave, grave mistake to draft Tkachuk over Dubois.

    It just would.

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure, but you are? That’s how I read these remarks.

  70. Chachi says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Scouts who have watched both guys closely are split on who is 4 and who is 5, but some dudes on the Internet are 100.0% certain that one of them is a “grave, grave mistake”.

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure.

    We have seen countless prospects overrated based on ”intangibles” when math doesn’t support the said intangibles.It is also the intangibles, rather than underlying numbers, that are propelling Tkachuk over Dubois from the eyes of some scouts.

    Most recent draft examples includes Pavel Zacha and Lawren Crouse.

    The Florida Panthers now turning to analytics-based scouting method is just another piece of evidence that scouting is changing and market inefficiencies in the scouting world will become more difficult to exploit.

    I stand by my astute assertion that it would be a grave, grave mistake to draft Tkachuk over Dubois.

    It just would.

    Your assertion cannot be said to be astute until it has been proven to be true. I hope the Oilers pick Dubois and that you are correct that he is the better prospect, but there is no way to judge whether that is actually the case until enough time has passed by and the scenario has played out. Until then we will all be at the mercy of time and fate and the hockey gords.

  71. PunjabiOil says:

    Scouts aren’t immune from failure, but you are? That’s how I read these remarks.

    Of course not.

    Have been wrong many many times, and will be wrong again in the future.

    Is my opinion on this subject matter overly aggressive? Perhaps. I have however, disclosed the reasons for this belief (of Dubois > Tkachuk) and see it being a bold risk to draft otherwise.

    Just my opinion though.

  72. Lowetide says:

    David: Do you understand that the “math” loves Tkachuk. It’s just that for “reasons” it’s not allowed to count for Tkachuk.

    Math adores Tkachuk and Dubois. The EV numbers and qual team are reasons to favor Dubois, but as I mentioned above, this is a very close call. I am uncertain Dubois will be a pro center, so even that part of the argument is frail.

  73. Professor Q says:

    Just saw the slash by Malkin. Nasty…

  74. David says:

    Lowetide: Math adores Tkachuk and Dubois. The EV numbers and qual team are reasons to favor Dubois, but as I mentioned above, this is a very close call. I am uncertain Dubois will be a pro center, so even that part of the argument is frail.

    I agree with this. Tkachuk isn’t even who I would draft at four, Nylander is. I know that’s considered a reach by most but I’m comfortable with it. The reason I’ve been banging the Tkachuk drum is that by measurable metrics it is very close between him an Dubois but a lot of people here are saying it’s no contest for reasons, that in my opinion, are flimsy.

  75. BONVIE says:

    I wish i could have watched a few games of Dubois play live, everything from the stats and the scouting reports suggests the Oilers have possibly four great forward options at the number 4 pick. The 4th being the wild card in the Fin, I still think its a possibility with Dubois and Tkachuk coming on strong that a team could pick one of these guys at 3. I would’nt even consider trading this pick unless a top pair Dman was coming back.

  76. Genjutsu says:

    BONVIE:
    I wish i could have watched a few games of Dubois play live, everything from the stats and the scoutingreports suggests the Oilers have possibly four great forward options at the number 4 pick. The 4th being the wild card in the Fin, I still think its a possibility with Dubois and Tkachuk coming on strong that a team could pick one of these guys at 3. I would’nt even consider trading this pick unless a top pair Dman was coming back.

    I think by math and by what scouts say the players are very close. Its hard to make definitive statements about what the future holds for any young player.

    Where there is clear separation is fit on the Oilers.

    LW and LD are the two areas of the team that are in least need of major upgrade.

    Dubois can play all forward positions and prefers center and right wing. He’s bigger and has a wider range of skills.

    I would argue that his package is a better fit for team needs.

  77. russ99 says:

    Kind of ironic that the GM pushing unicorns is the one with a roster full of all-world talent but keeps getting eliminated in the playoffs.

    Also the 4 teams left in the playoffs have checking lines and two-way players in the “top 9”, don’t have all puck moving defenseman and actually play defense in the D-zone, that Duane Sutter is convinced doesn’t exist.

    If you guys wanna to keep pushing that, fine, everyone’s entitled to an opinion.

    But at least accept that ideas other than MacT’s “relive the 80s” grand strategy might be a better path to winning in the long run.

  78. Professor Q says:

    Genjutsu,

    I mean, if you watch Tkatchuk play he can play all positions as well and generally can be anywhere on the ice, mostly on the right side.

  79. Jaxon says:

    Sign David Backes, Jason Demers, Chad Johnson, and Zach Redmond. Draft Pierre-Luc Dubois. Trade Yakupov for the best young RD you can find. Trade one or two of Oesterle, Musil, Jones, Simpson for more young RD prospects. Trade Korpikoski & Letestu for whatever. Consider trading Davidson and Hendricks if the return is decent. Sign Ethan Bear already. Sign 2 cheap 4th liners who hit, shoot and are good at faceoffs like Brad Malone, Ryan White and Derek Grant.

    Top 9 plays 18 to 20 minutes each.
    Maroon / McDavid / Eberle
    Pouliot / Nugent-Hopkins / Backes
    Hall / Draisaitl / Dubois

    Bottom 3 play maybe 6 minutes per night:
    Caggiula / White / Kassian
    Grant / Malone / Russell

    Top 4 play 20 to 25 mins per night
    Klefbom / Demers
    Sekera / Fayne

    Bottom 2 play 10 to 15 min per night:
    Davidson / Redmond
    Nurse or Reinhart / Young RD or Bear?

    Talbot plays 54 games
    Johnson plays 28 games

  80. G Money says:

    Lowetide: Any of us can speak to the Dubois vs. Tkachuk debate with the certainty being expressed in this thread.

    Bruce McCurdy: Man, the certainty of some of these comments are a little rich.

    PunjabiOil: Scouts aren’t immune from failure.

    Lowetide: Math adores Tkachuk and Dubois. The EV numbers and qual team are reasons to favor Dubois, but as I mentioned above, this is a very close call.

    Math in this case aka stats provides a certain degree of evidence (in support or in contradiction) to the eye test.

    Stats can fail, and do with regularity.

    The eye test, which is _far_ less reliable than most are willing to admit, despite the wealth of evidence (hockey and non-hockey) that demonstrates that it *is* very poor, fails even more often.

    You can’t predict the future, you can only estimate probabilities. It’s an unpleasant fact for those who demand a definitive answer, or a specific number.

    This probabilistic reality, and its associated multiple modes of failure, becomes even more acute with respect to draft picks, because you’re predicting the future at an enormously volatile point in a young mans career.

    Which is why both the math and the eye fail with striking regularity in that department.

    In the simplest possible terms:

    If you are speaking with certainty about any draft pick, you are probably full of crap.

    If you are speaking with certainty about any two draft picks, whether independently or comparatively, you *are* full of crap*.

    *Either that, or I just don’t get this whole ‘math’ and ‘stats’ thing. If so, carry on.

  81. hunter1909 says:

    godot10: What the Habs want….Yakupov and #4OV(Dubois) for McCarron and #9OV.

    Tempting but I wouldn’t do it if I were Chiarelli

    I could live with Yaks in Montreal. I could live with seeing Yakupov scoring an OT cup winning goal for them.

    -Rob Schremp fan-

    PS: Trade down and throw in Yakupov, for a player that scored 1 goal??

  82. OF17 says:

    russ99:
    Kind of ironic that the GM pushing unicorns is the one with a roster full of all-world talent but keeps getting eliminated in the playoffs.

    Also the 4 teams left in the playoffs have checking lines and two-way players in the “top 9”, don’t have all puck moving defenseman and actually play defense in the D-zone, that Duane Sutter is convinced doesn’t exist.

    If you guys wanna to keep pushing that, fine, everyone’s entitled to an opinion.

    But at least accept that ideas other than MacT’s “relive the 80s” grand strategy might be a better path to winning in the long run.

    3 of the 4 teams left are built with unicorns. Pittsburgh has Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel on different lines, Tampa has 3 scoring lines even without Stamkos, and St. Louis has Lehtera-Tarasenko, Fabbri-Stastny, and Steen-Backes as their forwards backbone. That’s 3 scoring lines in each case, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

    If your point is just that you need to have two-way players to win, then yeah, of course. But with how difficult it is to score goals, you aren’t going to win unless you have lots of guys that can score. It seems as if most GMs in a position to win agree, even on teams built for grinding defense like St. Louis.

  83. OF17 says:

    hunter1909: I could live with Yaks in Montreal. I could live with seeing Yakupov scoring an OT cup winning goal for them.

    -Rob Schremp fan-

    PS: Trade down and throw in Yakupov, for a player that scored 1 goal??

    Yeah, I don’t get the McCarron love. We’re worried about Kassian’s offense, but we’re willing to trade Yak + for a guy with even less?

  84. blainer says:

    Professor Q:
    What the heck? I totally forgot about this account.

    Tracy Lane @TreenasOil:

    “Oilers Habs revisiting talks for Yak Oilers interested in Mccarron APG”

    11:46 p.m. 24 May 2016

    I would be all over this trade.
    Watched McCarron a few times live this year and can tell you he is a player. Very strong on faceoff’s and looked real good defensively on a poor team.

    He was the ice caps best player IMO.

    He is playing center in the minors and doing well there IMO. Now I would love to see the analytic numbers to see if they back up my visual but I really like the guy. He can also play right wing and is a RT shot. Something this team really needs at center. Oh and he is 6- 6 231 lbs. Just really surprised the habs would trade him.

    Was a beast also in his last playoff run with Oshawa both in the ohl playoffs and the memorial cup.

    A trade of the 4th for the 9th and McCarron is a great deal. Yak has next to no value IMO and I see this as a throw in. This trade gives us an almost plug and play RT shot center on an entry level contract and an opportunity to get Juolevi..

    Bring it on !!

  85. PeOiler says:

    Sure does get harder to justify trading that top pick once we start reading up on the plausible draftees huh?

  86. OF17 says:

    PeOiler:
    Sure does get harder to justify trading that top pick once we start reading up on the plausible draftees huh?

    Definitely. The idea of Dubois and Draisaitl on a line together is intoxicating. With any luck, we won’t be able to grab a prospect that good from the draft for the next 15 years. Would be kind of a shame to trade it.

  87. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Jaxon:
    Sign David Backes, Jason Demers, Chad Johnson, and Zach Redmond. Draft Pierre-Luc Dubois. Trade Yakupov for the best young RD you can find. Trade one or two of Oesterle, Musil, Jones, Simpson for more young RD prospects. Trade Korpikoski & Letestu for whatever. Consider trading Davidson and Hendricks if the return is decent. Sign Ethan Bear already. Sign 2 cheap 4th liners who hit, shoot and are good at faceoffs like Brad Malone, Ryan White and Derek Grant.

    Ugh.

    I’m OK with a bunch of this… except simply saying “sign Backes” without acknowledging that he’s over 30 and wants a long term deal for north of $6,000,000 is a little weak. We don’t just get to force him to sign a value contract, he’s got options.

    My big issue though is “Consider trading Davidson and Hendricks if the return is decent”.

    I get the point about Hendricks. I like him more than most and want him on the team next year, but I would trade him for a decent return.

    Davidson is 24/25 and was at times our best Dman last year, his first as an NHL player. He’s got size, decent skating, decent passing, and very good hockey IQ. He’s locked up for 2 more years at about $1,000,000 and will be signable again when that’s done for decent dollars at the peak of his career.

    Why would you trade him? Unless by decent return you mean substantial return.

    To me Davidson is in my top 10 assets on this team. He’s not a guy a trade lightly. Not remotely.

  88. Oilspill says:

    Professional Scouts judgement (80%) + stats (20%) =best chance to draft the best player. 11 other players affecting shot based stats. So much can’t be measured with metrics.

  89. who says:

    Dubois or Thachuk. Don’t pretend to know who will be a better pro but If they are that close I would lean toward picking the better skater.. Watched most of the game last night and came away really wondering about Marner. This does not look like a player who is NHL ready. I know he had 4 assists but he had at least that many turnovers at the bluelines that resulted in good scoring chances against.
    I can see why he puts up so many points, he has great hands and way more poise and vision than most junior players. Extremely confident with the puck, to a fault I would say. He looked like he was playing shinny out there and really didn’t care if he lost the puck or not. Thats fine in a 9 to 1 rout but in a two goal game that gets you into the A final that is a little concerning to me.
    He is not a very big guy and his skating appears a little awkward. To me he could be the next Bernie Nicols or he could be the next Sam Gagne but the game I saw from him last night would get him benched in the NHL

  90. rickithebear says:

    Dubois:
    3rd best Even Age NHLE since 05-06.
    that Crosby and Mcdavid only beter thing.

    His Primary Even point NHLE is the 3rd best.

    Tkachuk:
    50 EVP NHLE there with Seguin and Hall.

    His 30 Primary Even point NHLE is 8th best in the OHL.
    40% of his production is giving a puck to Marner and Dvaorak and letting them do the primary work.

    Bowman believes in the offensive pair system.
    He wants a positive symbiosis of 2 players driving the play and demanding the attention.
    That way any poor schmuck can take advantage (find) the open space created by the elite pair.

    We are picking at #4 and I want the forward with number that show He is the 3rd best driver of play since Mcdavid and Crosby.

    His wingers had a 100% and 60% increase in production from the year before.

    I do not state Scots over Stats.

    Math tells a story:

    1. Tkachuk is carried by an elite JR offensive pair.
    2. Dubois is the 3rd best driver of play since 05-06

    Now the scouts need to explain what they saw.
    and
    if it differs from math. They better be able to give technical reasons why!

    We know Tkachuk can find space created by Marner and Dvorak.

    I watched Maroon rack at the best EVP/60 pace and score a whole bunch finding space created by Mcdavid and Eberle.
    For a 1.5M cap hit.

  91. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    rickithebear,

    I’m not disagreeing with you… I like Dubois.

    You have, however, effectively argued that Dubois is superior to Tavares, Stamkos, and Hall… offensively. Not overall, but offensively.

    That’s an awfully high bar my friend, especially when fully 0% of the media, either mainstream or otherwise, nor any major scouting service, agrees with you.

  92. Water Fire says:

    Mr DeBakey: I just thought I’d try making an asinine, unsupported assertion – just to see how it feels.
    Its so damn popular I thought it must give an endorphin rush or something.
    It doesn’t.

    But, maybe Winquist and Caggiula will both develop strong, two-way games.

    Maybe, but the first piece is speed and agility, which Caggiula has. These playoffs have shown that slow boots take you out of the play assuming 90’s style ice rugby isn’t being played.

    The bottom line is everybody skates well, can handle the puck and pays attention to stopping goals against as much as scoring, unless a ridiculous offensive player.

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