TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOU

The news last night in regard to Milan Lucic should not have come as a surprise, to me the big winger reflects a Peter Chiarelli team very well. A big contract offer is very likely coming from Edmonton, should Lucic reach free agency. It also gives us a clue about who about who might be in play for a trade (Hall, Pouliot), but miles to go.

If Lucic is acquired by Edmonton, it will mark the second year in a row that Peter Chiarelli addressed need in a curious way. Last summer, with obvious defensive issues, the GM traded for LHD Griffin Reinhart, a young player who was not NHL-ready. Edmonton had several lefties in a similar spot, and in fact both Darnell Nurse and Brandon Davidson landed jobs ahead of the new hire—effectively derailing the big draft day trade of 2015.

The difference? No doubt in my mind that a Lucic addition would indicate one of Taylor Hall or Benoit Pouliot heading out of town. Defensemen who might be in play? Using Frank Seravalli’s list, I would say P.K. Subban and Hampus Lindholm are the only two known blue who might fit into a Hall trade conversation. Thoughts?

Sergachev is my top defenseman for the 2016 draft (I should have my final list up tomorrow some time). He is a lefty, but Red Line Report lists him as RHD because he plays there a lot. Our own Centre of Attention has viewed him playing RH side in all situations on video. Our conversations this spring surrounding handedness are compelling enough for me to believe Sergachev should play his LH side, but for me he is also worthy of consideration at No. 4 overall. One of the compelling reasons to trade down is that he might still be available at No. 7 overall. If the Oilers deal No. 4 for No. 7 and No. 27, and grab Sergachev and Tyler Benson in the first round, I think it would represent terrific asset management on draft day. Agree? By the way, this post at The Hockey Writers on combine heights and weights is fascinating.

PETER CHIARELLI

A lot of angst and anger about Peter Chiarelli and his Oilers management group these days, and I think that is understandable. I want to address two things this morning in regard to PC: Your expectations for this month and what we can agree on as progress.

  • Peter Chiarelli helped build a winner in Boston, but also made curious deals all down the line. At the 2011 deadline—on the way to Stanley—he dealt a second-round pick for checking forward Chris Kelly; Blake Wheeler and Mark Stuart for Rich Peverley; Joe Colborne plus first round (Rikard Rikell) and second round (Mike Winther) selections for Tomas Kaberle.

Last summer, the new GM brought in Andrej Sekera, Cam Talbot and Mark Letestu, moves I view as being positive (fairly certain most disagree with at least one name there). I also felt the Eric Gryba addition helped the defensive depth, but the acquisitions of Lauri Korpikoski and Griffin Reinhart (the trade only made sense if he could help immediately) were clear misses.

What would a strong summer’s work by Peter Chiarelli look like? Here is my answer:

  1. Top-pairing D to partner with Klefbom (sign Jason Demers)
  2. Second-pairing RHD to partner with Sekera (Tyson Barrie/Sami Vatanen, but a secondary/less proven option like Anthony DeAngelo also has value. Mark Fayne could play second pair, with the puck mover lining up with Brandon Davidson, third pair)
  3. Acquire RHC with some skill (Small group available. Andrew Shaw? Tommy Wingels? Tyler Bozak?)
  4. Backup goalie (Jhonas Enroth, James Reimer)
  5. Offload unwanted contract (Lauri Korpikoski)

If Chiarelli can do these things, keep the forward group together and add enough depth to force young blue like Nurse and Reinhart to the minors, I would call that an outstanding summer. You? What would you like to see?

What would a poor summer look like? Trading Taylor Hall—unless an impact player like Subban is the return—makes no sense from here. Changing the culture has not and is not the problem—adding actual NHL players, reaching balance and a roster overrun by rookies and sophomores has always been the problem.

QUALITY OF THE DRAFT

  • Bob Green: “We’ve liked the draft right from the very beginning. Obviously, the top end is very good. Everybody’s going to get a good player in the first round. There’s depth to it. You know that some of the kids later on are going to turn into players, you’ve just got to figure out which one it is.” Source

The mention yesterday in regard to the importance of the third-round selections along with this from Green is encouraging. It suggests management is aware of just how poor the prospect list is at this time, and the need to aggressively add as many as six legit NHL prospects this spring and summer. Drake Cagguila is one, five to go.

NAMES TO REMEMBER

Currently, the names rattling around for Edmonton are Milan Lucic, Hampus Lindholm, Matt Tkachuk, Olli Juolevi, Tyler Benson, Mikhail Sergachev. I like all of those names, but absolutely question Taylor Hall’s prominence in current discussions. Ridiculous, unless Subban is coming here—and I like Lindholm plenty. Hey Anaheim, if you want Hall for Lindholm, what are you adding? That is my question.

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154 Responses to "TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOU"

  1. Rondo says:

    Mikhail Sergachev (8th NA): Listed: 6-foot-2, 208 lbs Combine: 6-foot-2.25, 221.36 lbs

    https://twitter.com/haprusak/status/739092063933845504

  2. Mr DeBakey says:

    Did you change the photo at the top of the Post?

    Yup, add Lucic, get .940 goalering in the Finals, and Bam! Stanley Cup!

    Remember
    Don’t draft like puc, Draft Pierre-Luc!

  3. 36 percent body fat says:

    getting lucic only makes sense if hall stays and pouliot is moved. That being said pouliot will be more cost effective and that is the key to winning consistantly. Okposo sounds like a better idea, and is a better way to get tougher. Use Eberle + to get the D.

    If Nuge and Eberle are moved out for D, Than I would like to get both and move pouliot out.

    Hall, Maroon, Okposo, Lucic, and yak as your top 6 options are good.

    The issue here is Lucic is wearing down, where Okposo has just peaked. The right handed shot and less worn down Okposo is the better more cost effective option in the long run.

  4. flyfish1168 says:

    Dangerous times for PC.

    PC did not manage CAP very well in Beantown and I hope he has learned to approach it better this time around

    We will learn how many players will be willing to come here to play with CMD and the new arena with a CAP or term friendly deal.

    This summer will be interesting.

  5. leadfarmer says:

    When Chia got hired his resume had some good moves, some bad moves and some overpayments in the bottom of the roster. It is silly to expect otherwise.

    If Hall is traded that means he asked out. That’s it. Don’t blame Chia. I would give him credit for keeping it under wraps.

    That 4th ov pick is a land mine for Chia. Top 3 picks are pretty much decided. Whoever he pick or trades down for will be scrutinized for eternity and compared to the whole league which is an unfair comparison

  6. gd says:

    The Lucic desire is very concerning to me. The hybrid of Pouliot, Maroon, and Kassian accomplish whatever Lucic can for way less long term contract risk.

    I think we focused so much on McDavid/RNH/Klefbom’s injuries so much we forget that losing Pouliot for a third of the season was also damaging. Pouliot has become the new Petry in terms of how underrated he is to this team. All I know is most of the time, the McDavid/RNH line looks better when he is on it and he is a great counter LW to Hall.

    Last year’s injuries were crippling and meant we/Chia could never got a sense of what the team could do. I keep hearing every team has injuries, if you look at the playoff teams, most of them had at most one key guy play less than 70 games. Some teams like Anaheim/Nashville/Minnesota had every key guy play more than 70 games.

    I truly think the Oil are closer to the playoffs than most people realize. Get the best deal on puck moving RHD that is out there, get a strong backup Goalie and tweek the mix up front a bit and if they can even get league average injuries they can contend.

  7. Rondo says:

    MIKHAIL SERGACHEV
    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/combine–mikhail-sergachev/t-277443418/c-44144903

    There was definite raised interest in the fitness testing when Windsor defenceman Mikhail Sergachev took his turn with Group 2. Scouts’ heads turned in his direction as the big 17-year-old blueliner made his way from station to station.

    Sergachev is the eighth-ranked North American skater by Central Scouting and one of the consensus top d-men available. It’s no secret that many teams have interest, and Sergachev confirms one of those is the Oilers.

    “I met them like twice during the year,” said Sergachev. “It was kind of interesting. They told me my strengths and weaknesses, they told me what I have to work on. Maybe they will draft me, who knows? I don’t know.”

    Sergachev says the Oilers have been in contact with their former assistant coach turned Windsor bench boss Rocky Thompson. So Edmonton knows this prospect very well.

    When asked what in his mind makes him the top choice among this defensive group, Sergachev says, “I’m a big guy, I can make plays.”

    “I can shoot and I can skate so it depends what the team wants. Maybe the Oilers want super smart Juolevi or big Chychrun or super-skilled Jake Bean. Who knows?”

  8. RedArmy says:

    I’m likely in the minority, but I would be happy with something like hall for lindholm and silfverberg.

  9. Richard S.S. says:

    You said, “Last summer, with obvious defensive issues, the GM traded for LHD Griffin Reinhart, a young player who was not NHL-ready. Edmonton had several lefties in a similar spot, and in fact both Darnell Nurse and Brandon Davidson landed jobs ahead of the new hire—effectively derailing the big draft day trade of 2015.”

    I don’t know whether anyone will agree, but prior to Peter Chiarelli’s arrival the Oilers had no defense, absolutely none. The two big hires had spectacularly crashed and burned, career-ending stuff for sure. From what was left, there might be someone near NHL-ready, and that’s all they were.

    When Chiarelli literally had nothing of value to spend outside of irreplaceables, he had to use what he could. The only thing of strong value that he could use to acquire what he needed was Draft Picks (the NHL’s version of Canadian Tire money). I think he did a very good job.

    When Boston shot themselves in the head and gave away Hamilton, Chiarelli went to the next best available target. Griffin Reinhart was on the tip of the might be NHL-ready decision edge that made that deal. There wasn’t anyone else.

    Griffin Reinhart is an NHL Defenseman. He’s just not what the Oilers need him to be yet. Feel free to disagree.

  10. Lowetide says:

    flyfish1168:
    Dangerous times for PC.

    PC did not manage CAP very well in Beantown and I hope he has learned to approach it better this time around

    We will learn how many players will be willing to come here to play with CMD and the new arena with a CAP or term friendly deal.

    This summer will be interesting.

    Chiarelli had cap issues after winning the Stanley. I think that is going to be a problem in Edmonton, too.

  11. Pescador says:

    I’m not convinced that Lucic will want to come to Edmonton and I believe he will recieve multiple offers. That being said, I look at it this way; Lucic ($6M) and a cheap FA winger say Stempniak ($1M) in exchange for Pouliot ($4M) & Yak ($2.5M). Not the end of the world, and definitely a much different look. The real quandary is the Term.
    If the NHL expands by 2 teams in 2017, do we lose 2 players or just 1? If it’s just 1 player for each team (15) how does that team fill out its roster?

  12. Zack says:

    I’d take Lucic over Pouliot, as long as it’s not 6+ for many, many years.

    Trading Hall is absolutely absurd, the team should be built around him and McDavid.

    I still think the best route for UFA is sign a center (Backes) go after Brouwer and add one D-man.

    Trade Nuge + Fayne + Yakupov/4OV for a top tier defenseman like Adam Larsson + ELC.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Richard S.S.:
    You said, “Last summer, with obvious defensive issues, the GM traded for LHD Griffin Reinhart, a young player who was not NHL-ready. Edmonton had several lefties in a similar spot, and in fact both Darnell Nurse and Brandon Davidson landed jobs ahead of the new hire—effectively derailing the big draft day trade of 2015.”

    I don’t know whether anyone will agree, but prior to Peter Chiarelli’s arrival the Oilers had no defense, absolutely none.The two big hires had spectacularly crashed and burned, career-ending stuff for sure.From what was left, there might be someone near NHL-ready, and that’s all they were.

    When Chiarelli literally had nothing of value to spend outside of irreplaceables, he had to use what he could. The only thing of strong value that he could use to acquire what he needed was Draft Picks (the NHL’s version of Canadian Tire money).I think he did a very good job.

    When Boston shot themselves in the head and gave away Hamilton, Chiarelli went to the next best available target.Griffin Reinhart was on the tip of the might be NHL-ready decision edge that made that deal.There wasn’t anyone else.

    Griffin Reinhart is an NHL Defenseman.He’s just not what the Oilers need him to be yet.Feel Free to disagree.

    He had Martin Marincin, who was closer to NHL-ready than Reinhart. I am a Chiarelli supporter, but that move was not good in all kinds of ways.

  14. who says:

    I have been an advocate of exploring trade options for Taylor Hall all year and it has nothing to do with changing team culture. Taylor Hall is the only forward, other than MacDavid, who can get you a true #1 dman. If Chia really wants to make an impact on the dcore Hall is his best option and left wing is his deepest forward position, especially if the Oilers draft PLD or Tachuck.
    Chia has two options to get an impact dman. Trade Hall or trade 2 significant assets. I don’t think the Oilers have the depth to trade 2 pieces for one. The other option is to sign a second pairing dman like Demers or trade some lesser assets for younger, unproven dmen.
    Hall is a very good winger but he is not Patrick Kane or Ovy so he is not irreplaceable. I just don’t think he impacts the game as much as some people on here think he does. For instance a lot of people on here are saying trade Nuge but what specific skill does Hall bring to the game that Nuge does not. And Nuge is a center.

  15. oilersfan says:

    I can’t believe how so few of the people here listen to oilers now , considering the topic of this blog.

    1) every thread somebody mentions that Shattenkirk doesn’t get mentioned enough. Bob has said repeatedly that Shattenkirk will only extend with an eastern US team and there is no chance he is coming here
    2) Bob has said in his last two shows that the odds of Subban leaving Montreal are much higher than people realize and that the only scenario he can foresee the Oilers trading Hall in would be as part of a Subban trade.

    He is at the combine this week but called in for a. 15 minute segment each day. The last two days he mentioned this as more of a possibility than he had realized previously.

  16. 719 says:

    Lowetide: He had Martin Marincin, who was closer to NHL-ready than Reinhart. I am a Chiarelli supporter, but that move was not good in all kinds of ways.

    Yep

  17. Pescador says:

    Trades I am hoping for on draft day;
    4th & Reinhart to Colorado for Barrie & the 10th.(Chychrun)
    Yak & Fayne to NJ for Svereson & 2-3 round pick.
    Move a 3rd and our 2nd for a 1st and draft a skilled C.
    Also keep Nuge you Stupid Stupid Tits!!
    sorry about the disgusting language LT,

  18. John Chambers says:

    An often overlooked benefit of the Oilers getting a Lucic-type player (like Lucic!), is they’ll have scratched that itch and will no longer go shopping and drafting endlessly for a Lucic-type player.

  19. Woogie63 says:

    Lots of work to do in the hockey operation part the team as well. Lowe, MacTavis, Howson, Buckburger and Carriere developed a long term strategy of the team cresting together, that has failed.

    My PC list for a successful summer is,

    1. Lowe’s cresting theory didn’t work – move to draft and develop

    Good bye – McTavish, Howson, Carriere,
    Hello – Darren Abbott (Ontario Reigns), Dave Nonis (Anaheim), Kris Draper (Detroit) and Ference

    2. $6 Million dollar men – are not all value contracts

    Eberle this year – get a RHD via a trade (Vatanen, Barrie)
    RNH next year – let 97, 29 mature for a year
    Hall – Is a value contract and stays

    3. Play Yak with McDavid, Pouilot
    4. Sign Demers, Montoya
    5. Reinhart and Davidson compete all year for the 6th spot

  20. RPG says:

    Lowetide,

    In the end the blame falls on Chiarelli, but MacT was the voice that drove Marincin to Toronto.

  21. Woogie63 says:

    Richard S.S.:
    You said, “Last summer, with obvious defensive issues, the GM traded for LHD Griffin Reinhart, a young player who was not NHL-ready. Edmonton had several lefties in a similar spot, and in fact both Darnell Nurse and Brandon Davidson landed jobs ahead of the new hire—effectively derailing the big draft day trade of 2015.”

    I don’t know whether anyone will agree, but prior to Peter Chiarelli’s arrival the Oilers had no defense, absolutely none.The two big hires had spectacularly crashed and burned, career-ending stuff for sure.From what was left, there might be someone near NHL-ready, and that’s all they were.

    When Chiarelli literally had nothing of value to spend outside of irreplaceables, he had to use what he could. The only thing of strong value that he could use to acquire what he needed was Draft Picks (the NHL’s version of Canadian Tire money).I think he did a very good job.

    When Boston shot themselves in the head and gave away Hamilton, Chiarelli went to the next best available target.Griffin Reinhart was on the tip of the might be NHL-ready decision edge that made that deal.There wasn’t anyone else.

    Griffin Reinhart is an NHL Defenseman.He’s just not what the Oilers need him to be yet.Feel free to disagree.

    I tend agree with you. These are all very young men, that are still very much in the development stage. I think Klefbom, Nurse, and Reinhart give us the best shot at a 1/2 defenceman.

    Davidson, Marinicin, Sekera, Fayne type are very important, but won’t develop in consistent super effective 28 minute a night guys.

  22. OilSafety says:

    Is there any chance we bring in Barrie and Faulk?

    Perhaps nuge for Faulk, #4 and Fayne for barrie. If we bring in an Andrew shaw to replace nuge.

    Is that even possible under the Cap moving forward?

  23. slopitch says:

    I don’t see Subban moving despite the rumours. Montreal is in a weird spot. With Price they seem to be able to go a round or 2 but both Markov and Plekanec and close to done and I don’t like the supporting cast much. Trading Subban seems like the wrong guy to trade. I would move Hall for Subban. Hall has a better contract but Subban strikes off a major need. Chairelli screwed Ottawa once when he signed Chara. I still think Ottawa is a team to watch. How many years can they ice a team of Karlsson and nothing else?

    I agree with LT. Signing Lucic makes little sense given the organizations strengths. Unless he plans on blowing it right up. If he blew it right up and built around CMD and Drai I wouldn’t be stunned though. The fan in me wants Demers and Bartie and the current core though. I think these guys can win with a proper supporting cast.

  24. kinger_OIL says:

    – OK I said I was only going to post the poll one more time, but with the chatter, and for the weekend LT warriors, here it is. Really neat tabulating all that we think the OIL would do.

    – Please answer seperate 1-10 then I can easily cut and past it.

    – I’d acquire Lucic, trade Hall, Klef, 4th, + any AHL’r for Subban and their 1st rounder.

    First prize is a donation to Lowetide. 2nd prize: a set of steak knifes, third place: you are banned from LT (I kid!). Have at ‘er if you haven’t already:

    1) Who will the first player drafted by the Oil this year? (because I’m tricky/sneaky!)
    2) Name one D that the Oil will acquire, not currently on roster
    3) Name another D that the Oil will acquire, (no one is fine as anwer)
    4) Who will be the backup goalie next year
    5) Will one of the Steve Austins (Ebs/Hall/RNH) be traded (bonus point to pick right one(s))
    6) Which NHL roster players will be bought-out or sent to AHL before start of next season
    7) Who is going to be the forward acquired with the biggest salary in the off-season (no one fine)
    8) Will MacT and/or Howson be “reassigned”?
    9) How many separate trades will the Oil complete (bonus if you name one)
    10) Of Griff/Nurse/Davidson/Osterle/Klef: which ones will be on starting roster for first game

  25. fifthcartel says:

    I had the same thought about a potential Lucic signing aligning well with the Reinhart deal. Its just unnecessary to add an expensive (LH) LW who you will likely be paying for their 28-33/34 age years.

    Reinhart wasn’t NHL ready and he’s going into his draft + 5 year with 2 points and 40 NHL games to his name, which is not a good sign.

    I think it would be a grave mistake to move Hall and replace him with Lucic.

    My prediction is they move down to select Sergachev and move RNH for Barrie.

  26. mustang says:

    If Hall goes for PK then Mtl needs to eat 1.5-2M of that salary. Subban is a good dman but he isn’t 9M good. McDavid will be, and that his money not Subban.

  27. who says:

    kinger_OIL:
    – OK I said I was only going to post the poll one more time, but with the chatter, and for the weekend LT warriors, here it is.Really neat tabulating all that we think the OIL would do.

    – Please answer seperate 1-10 then I can easily cut and past it.

    – I’d acquire Lucic, trade Hall, Klef, 4th, + any AHL’r for Subban and their 1st rounder.

    First prize is a donation to Lowetide. 2nd prize: a set of steak knifes, third place: you are banned from LT (I kid!). Have at ‘er if you haven’t already:

    1) Who will the first player drafted by the Oil this year? (because I’m tricky/sneaky!)
    2) Name one D that the Oil will acquire, not currently on roster
    3) Name another D that the Oil will acquire, (no one is fine as anwer)
    4) Who will be the backup goalie next year
    5) Will one of the Steve Austins (Ebs/Hall/RNH) be traded (bonus point to pick right one(s))
    6) Which NHL roster players will be bought-out or sent to AHL before start of next season
    7) Who is going to be the forward acquired with the biggest salary in the off-season (no one fine)
    8) Will MacT and/or Howson be “reassigned”?
    9) How many separate trades will the Oil complete (bonus if you name one)
    10) Of Griff/Nurse/Davidson/Osterle/Klef: which ones will be on starting roster for first game

    I am ok with trading Hall but you want to trade down 5 spots in first round and add Hall AND Klef for Subban. That is a horrible idea.

  28. ASkoreyko says:

    Lowetide: He had Martin Marincin, who was closer to NHL-ready than Reinhart. I am a Chiarelli supporter, but that move was not good in all kinds of ways.

    I still think Chia panicked after he whiffed on Hamilton and had already earmarked those assets for a young NHL(ready) D. I am assuming after he heard he lost out on Hamilton and shared that information at his table, he supporting cast was still enamored with Reinhart from his Oil King days and they made the pitch.

    I wish Chia had a stronger ‘gut’ on that recommendation and decided not to listen to the men that made it possible for him to get hired, but he did.

    Our only hope is Chia learns from his mistakes, both in his own actions and the actions of those around him.

  29. blainer says:

    oilersfan:
    I can’t believe how so few of the people here listen to oilers now , considering the topic of this blog.

    1) every thread somebody mentions that Shattenkirk doesn’t get mentioned enough. Bob has said repeatedly that Shattenkirk will only extend with an eastern US team and there is no chance he is coming here
    2) Bob has said in his last two shows that the odds of Subban leaving Montreal are much higher than people realize and that the only scenario he can foresee the Oilers trading Hall in would be as part of a Subban trade.

    He is at the combine this week but called in for a. 15 minute segment each day. The last two days he mentioned this as more of a possibility than he had realized previously.

    I’m Ok with a PK for Hall trade as long as the habs are retaining 1 million annually on his contract.

  30. Snowman says:

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/c-44144903

    What a great interview with Sergachev. His english is insanely good for only having learned to speak it this year. Very interesting cat.

  31. Centre of attention says:

    Hall for Lindholm, Rakell, #24 overall and I still don’t like that trade.

    I especially don’t like that it is a in-division trade. If Hall was going out east for a Subban type I could stomach that one a little better.

  32. Yeti says:

    Lowetide: He had Martin Marincin, who was closer to NHL-ready than Reinhart. I am a Chiarelli supporter, but that move was not good in all kinds of ways.

    It would have made more sense if it had been combined with the Nurse for Hamilton trade that was a possibility. Balance would have been achieved, I think.

  33. Richard S.S. says:

    P.K. Subban plus something for Taylor Hall plus something would be absolutely amazing. Whatever the plus somethings are should be left to the GMs, as only they can do it justice. That would certainly give notice that Chiarelli is open for business.

  34. John Chambers says:

    slopitch:
    I don’t see Subban moving despite the rumours. Montreal is in a weird spot. With Price they seem to be able to go a round or 2 but both Markov and Plekanec and close to done and I don’t like the supporting cast much. Trading Subban seems like the wrong guy to trade. I would move Hall for Subban. Hall has a better contract but Subban strikes off a major need. Chairelli screwed Ottawa once when he signed Chara. I still think Ottawa is a team to watch. How many years can they ice a team of Karlsson and nothing else?

    I agree with LT. Signing Lucic makes little sense given the organizations strengths. Unless he plans on blowing it right up. If he blew it right up and built around CMD and Drai I wouldn’t be stunned though. The fan in me wants Demers and Bartie and the current core though. I think these guys can win with a proper supporting cast.

    I agree that it might be in Ottawa’s interest to consider a package that would include Drai, Nurse, our #4 OV and say Yakupov for Karlsson.

    The Sens are like you say going nowhere – too good to draft an impact player but not good enough to make use of Karlsson’s prime.

    We’d overpay and then some, but having McDavid and Karlsson on the ice together would be pure magic.

  35. who says:

    Centre of attention:
    Hall for Lindholm, Rakell, #24 overall and I still don’t like that trade.

    I especially don’t like that it is a in-division trade. If Hall was going out east for a Subban type I could stomach that one a little better.

    You know who else doesn’t like that trade. Anaheim. Oilers would jump all over that and it would be a great move. I think the Oilers should take Lindhom and either one of the other two assets.

  36. Centre of attention says:

    who: You know who else doesn’t like that trade. Anaheim. Oilers would jump all over that and it would be a great move. I think the Oilers should take Lindhom and either one of the other two assets.

    Obviously we would have to add to Hall, which makes me feel like throwing up.

    I just think Hall is a non starter IMO especially inter-division wise.

  37. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Hi LT and all,

    Seeing some malware type stuff happening every time I click on links on your site. I’ve run scans of my computer and found nothing (doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist). I haven’t had the same issues with other sites I frequent so was just wondering if anyone else was seeing similar? Happens when I try to click on a new post link or go to the log-in page.

    If no one else has the issue then no worries.

  38. who says:

    John Chambers: I agree that it might be in Ottawa’s interest to consider a package that would include Drai, Nurse, our #4 OV and say Yakupov for Karlsson.

    The Sens are like you say going nowhere – too good to draft an impact player but not good enough to make use of Karlsson’s prime.

    We’d overpay and then some, but having McDavid and Karlsson on the ice together would be pure magic.

    HUGE OVERPAYMENT. First of all take out Yak because he doesn’t make or break the deal either way. Then maybe Drai and Nurse or Drai and the 4OV but no way I offer all three. And I don’t offer both expansion exempt assets.

  39. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    “If Lucic is acquired by Edmonton, it will mark the second year in a row that Peter Chiarelli addressed need in a curious way. Last summer, with obvious defensive issues, the GM traded for LHD Griffin Reinhart, a young player who was not NHL-ready. Edmonton had several lefties in a similar spot, and in fact both Darnell Nurse and Brandon Davidson landed jobs ahead of the new hire—effectively derailing the big draft day trade of 2015.”

    –I wrote this the other day and was told by people that there was no depth on LHD at the time of the Reinhart trade. Yes, Sekera was added later and Davidson hadn’t emerged yet, but at the time they had
    Klefbom
    Nurse
    Marincin
    Davidson
    Oesterle
    Simpson
    Musil

    Now granted, bottom half of that may never be regular NHL material, but they paid an awfully high price to grab someone who was going to be competing with Marincin and Davidson on the depth chart.

  40. Johnny Larue says:

    I am against signing Lucic I think the cost and term required would be to onerous. I don’t trade any of the Steve Austin’s and address the defence by signing Demers. Then using NY oils scenario of trading the 4th and Griff for Barrie or similar move. Now is not the time to blink with a flat cap, cap space we should be able to get what we need with astute moves.

  41. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    “Hey Anaheim, if you want Hall for Lindholm, what are you adding? That is my question.”

    Sadly I can tell you that around the league Lindholm is viewed as a #1D for the next 15 years. It’s either straight up or the Oilers are the ones adding. I know the majority of people here are going to disagree with me, and that’s fine.

    I don’t want to trade Hall either. If they trade Hall and grab Lucic for 6 x $6M I may hand in my fan card.

    I do wonder about Leadfarmer’s theory a bit. Hall hasn’t seemed like the same player since Christmas. I have to be careful what I say, because the easiest and simplest explanations are that Klefbom got hurt and Draisaitl slowed down. But I wonder if other events have also made him unhappy–primarily the losing of course as another season slipped away with McDavid hurt. I’d like to see a happy, smiling Hall in an Oilers jersey and some wins. All that losing has to add up to a lot of misery for a winner like him. He must also feel like being on the Oilers is holding him back from the accolades he deserves like Team Canada. I know it must be eating at him to watch Seguin (already a Cup winner in Boston) in Dallas with Benn, in the playoffs, a top 10 scorer, and a lock for Team Canada. Meanwhile he is losing out to Duchene because of his OIlers stink.

  42. rickithebear says:

    Gm’s do not trade top 30 EVP/60 forwards.
    they do go as ufa. if they are not resigned.
    only an idiot GM moves them before their ufa contract.
    Like the guy who moved wheeler and Seguin.
    Oh F………….
    It better be for 3 Expansion protected assets moving forward.

    The top 60 HSCA D that anchor the best GA teams and conf final Teams.
    can be had in:
    UFA
    or
    trade -(prospect for prospect) or (3 for 1)
    drafted and devloped is less than 50%.

    I recognize most of you only suggest our top 30 Fwds for D cause you too have seen that only idiots do that and the worst is our current GM.

    But stop suggesting them cause the Media driven Sheep are easily influenced.
    Especially the Neilson, Fraser, and Gregor.

  43. geowal says:

    Matt Tkachuk knows a thing or two about winning, they’ll pick him for sure! 😀

    “I’m a winner,” said Tkachuk. “I’ve proven that over the last couple of years. I know how to win and I know how to bring that winning mentality to a team. Personally, I think I am a really competitive player and I’m a smart hockey player. I think that’s what a lot of teams need.”

  44. kinger_OIL says:

    – Awesome piece with Whitney re: Cup and Sid. Player’s Tribune is a great gift to sports fans:

    http://www.theplayerstribune.com/2016-6-3-ryan-whitney-mike-rupp-stanley-cup-final-preview/

  45. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: He had Martin Marincin, who was closer to NHL-ready than Reinhart. I am a Chiarelli supporter, but that move was not good in all kinds of ways.

    Chiarellli had the rights to Martin Marincin, but he didn’t “have” Marinicn. Marincin was never going to sign another contract with the Oilers. MacT burned every bridge the organization had to Marincin. Honour is a big thing to central and east Europeans, and MacT behaved totally dishonourably towards Marincin. No way in hell he was signing another contract with the Oilers.

  46. Johnny Larue says:

    godot10: Chiarellli had the rights to Martin Marincin, but he didn’t “have” Marinicn. Marincin was never going to sign another contract with the Oilers.MacT burned every bridge the organization had to Marincin.Honour is a big thing to central and east Europeans, and MacT behaved totally dishonourably towards Marincin.No way in hell he was signing another contract with the Oilers.

    Bingo . Marincin was already gone so can we finally kill that false narrative. Griff is going to be a legitimate NHL D for a long time and may be a key player in getting the right Handed D that we require. I am more confident of that than Maricin who I can see playing in Europe sooner than later.

  47. Richard S.S. says:

    When Chiarelli took over he had a Staff he never hired and was paying for people no longer on the Team. There’s only so much money wasted that ownership is willing to accept, even the most liberal have limits. There was a limit on the changes in Staff that Chiarelli could make. I believe this to be true.

    Last year was a test of his Staff, because there was a limit to what he could do for the Team. I don’t know which was a Chiarelli-move or a Staff-inspired move or a combination of both. I think speculation about such matters as foolish. I think we’ll find out the answer as existing contracts expire.

  48. Wonder Llama says:

    There is some appeal to going the minimalist route: signing one UFA RHD, a backup G, and a mid-range UFA forward like Stempniak, Purcell, or Stewart. I think many of us are curious as to just how close the Oilers are to contending with just those tweaks and halfway decent luck re. injuries. But this depends almost completely on signing Jason Demers who may be prohibitively expensive so we can’t count on it.

    I agree with our resident Gentleman Backpacker that Hampus Lindholm is an exceptional potential Oiler target. If there is an opportunity there Chia should pounce on it. I would prefer not to trade Hall but if that’s what it takes Chia needs to at least consider it.

    If we’re going whale hunting I would argue all day for Karlsson over Subban. Any Oiler asset not wearing 97 is fair game (prefer to keep Hall and Drai, but…). For the right package I would even consider taking Clarke MacArthur off their hands. Yes, Karlsson would be that substantial.

    JMH Llama O.

  49. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    P.S. I wouldn’t worry too much about a Hall for LIndholm swap. If there is any reason at all for Anaheim to trade Lindholm it’s because of their internal cap and money issues. So they aren’t going to trade for a $6M winger.

    For $6M they can probably get Lindholm signed anyway.

    They’d move Vatanen and Fowler before they move Lindholm, I think, unless you knock their socks off with an obscene offer.

  50. Wonder Llama says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I wonder if there is a deal to be had for Lindholm involving Klefbom. Would ANA see him as a sure enough thing with a value-enough contract? A Lindholm/Sekera/Klefbom left side would be impressive but too expensive, so one would need to go. Sekera’s price, term, and NMC makes him unlikely. What would the Oilers need to add to make it work?

  51. Clay says:

    I could see Chia trying to get all 3 of Lucic, Backes, and Okposo (very much Chia types), then sending all 3 Steve Austins out for legit top pairing dmen.

    The team gets older, but Hall, Ebs, and RNH should net 2 top-end dmen.

    I’m not endorsing this plan, but I could see it happening.

  52. Clay says:

    Wonder Llama:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I wonder if there is a deal to be had for Lindholm involving Klefbom. Would ANA see him as a sure enough thing with a value-enough contract? A Lindholm/Sekera/Klefbom left side would be impressive but too expensive, so one would need to go. Sekera’s price, term, and NMC makes him unlikely. What would the Oilers need to add to make it work?

    But then you need to replace Klefbom.

  53. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Wonder Llama:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I wonder if there is a deal to be had for Lindholm involving Klefbom. Would ANA see him as a sure enough thing with a value-enough contract? A Lindholm/Sekera/Klefbom left side would be impressive but too expensive, so one would need to go. Sekera’s price, term, and NMC makes him unlikely. What would the Oilers need to add to make it work?

    for LIndholm? 4th overall.

    I am not sure I do it. Klef + 4th is an overpay if he can stay healthy. If he can’t then the Oilers win. Too risky. I think neither team does it. Anaheim has Getz-Kesler down the middle. The only thing they’d want coming back is young, cost-controlled assets. So that rules out Hall, Nuge, Eberle. Obviously McDavid is an untouchable. Draisaitl they don’t have a big need for at the present time. Yakupov has next to no value.

    That leaves Nurse, Klefbom, Reinhart.

    Reinhart? Not enough value.

    Nurse? Closer but Anaheim probably wants a sure thing.

    Klefbom–as you pointed out they could be interested, but the injury risk is large. Tkachuk to play with their big guns up front would probably be enticing.

    Tkachuk + Klefbom for Lindholm.

    Like I said, it all depends on injury risk with Klefbom. If he stays healthy, Oilers lose. If he continues to have an injury-riddled career then Oilers win.

    In conclusion, I think it’s too risky for both teams and this deal doesn’t happen.

  54. Gret99zky says:

    gd:

    I truly think the Oil are closer to the playoffs than most people realize. Get the best deal on puck moving RHD that is out there, get a strong backup Goalie and tweek the mix up front a bit and if they can even get league average injuries they can contend.

    IMO, the Oilers are not deep enough to survive even league average injuries.

    They lack Depth & Balance.

  55. Clay says:

    From Mr. Willis’s Twitter:

    By request, 2014-16, Pouliot | Lucic:

    5v5 P/60: 1.99 | 1.87
    5v4 P/60: 3.73 | 3.03

    How much eyeglow/60 does Lucic need to have to make up the scoring deficit and $2Mish more salary between he and Pou?

    https://t.co/agAO2zsEe2

  56. highgloveside says:

    I have no problem with Tkachuk, but I prefer Pierre-Luc Dubois. Here are some interesting stats that put thing in better perspective for me

    MT – 57 games – 30 goals – 107 pts

    PLD – 62 games – 42 goals – 99 pts

    Looks pretty close

    MT – 77 assists – 36 1st assists – 41 2nd assists

    PLD – 58 assists – 41 1st assists – 17 2nd assists

    Looks like PLD definitively drives the offence, 20 fewer assist overall but 5 more primary assists, that is a huge gap.

    MT – G/PG – .526 1A/PG – .632 – 2A/PG – .719

    PLD – G/PG – .677 1A/PG – .661 – 2A/PG – .258

    MT – 1.158 Primary Points per game

    PLD – 1.338 Promary Points per game

    Again PLD out performs Tkachuk significantly in the important pts columns and even though MT has a higher PPG than PLD, PLD out performs MT where offense is driven.

    If you only look at even strength points PLD holds an even bigger lead over MT in every category (other than 2nd assists) PLD scores 50% more 1st assists at ES than MT, MT scores double the 2nd assists than he does 1st assists. PLD scores 60% more ES goals than MT.

    Basically PLD is like Taylor Hall, an even strength beast that is “pushing the river”. Tkacuk looks closer to a guy in the Kayak riding the river.

    PLD can play center or wing which gives flexibility. He will likely be a winger in the NHL but may be able to fill in 3C if required.

    PLD is a significantly better skater and “average” skating probably won’t cut it with McDavid unless you have Maroons 240 lbs.

  57. Walter Sobchak says:

    IMO

    Lucic is a horrible gamble, I can see the justification in PC head, I get Lucic Hall becomes expendable.

    I’ll say it once more, I think you get the same player in Kreider as you would with Lucic in the end.

    Kreider can play any position and move around the line up, at the high end might cost you the same as Pouliot
    Kreider is faster, just as aggressive but is far more useful player.

    If these rumours are true then PC as a GM is starting to scare the shit out of me that he is just winging it old school.

  58. Wonder Llama says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I suppose you’re right, though if Lindholm really is the next Hedman I’m not sure the overpayment is that much.

    Just for fun, here’s my ridiculous blockbuster trade with the Senators (please feel no obligation to comment unless you feel like it):

    TO OTTAWA:

    2016 4 OV
    2017 1st round pick
    Eberle
    RNH
    Yakupov
    Nurse

    TO EDMONTON:

    Karlsson
    Turris
    MacArthur ($1MM retained if OTT will agree)
    2016 12 OV

  59. Gret99zky says:

    ASkoreyko: I still think Chia panicked after he whiffed on Hamilton and had already earmarked those assets for a young NHL(ready) D. I am assuming after he heard he lost out on Hamilton and shared that information at his table, he supporting cast was still enamored with Reinhart from his Oil King days and they made the pitch.

    In hindsight, this seems very, very likely.

  60. highgloveside says:

    Mikhail Sergachev is up from 208 lbs to 221 lbs, he could mature at 235+ lbs and still getting taller! Big smooth skater.

    Pierre-Luc Dubois is up from 201 lbs to 205 lbs, he could mature in that 220 range, beast!! Also gre 1/4′ to 6’2.25″ may hit 6’3″

    Jakob Chychrun dropped 5 lbs to 195 lbs

    Julien Gauthier added 6 lbs and up to 231 lbs, he could hit 245 lbs at 6’3, thats bigger than Lucic and with this years 41 goals and 16 assists in 54 games. If the Oilers grab an additional late 1st rounder while trading the 4th or could be a steal if he falls a bit for their second round pick. Some incorrectly compare him to Rick Nash, cause ha can also skate well for a big man, I like to think of him as what Dustin Penner should have been if he had work ethic, Gauthier is know for his hard work off an on the ice. He may be a coke machine, but this kid spits free Coke Classic out for everyone. He could be Kreider with more goals. Chaaching!!

  61. Jethro Tull says:

    ASkoreyko,

    Gret99zky,

    Wow. What a difference a year makes to our memories. Chia didn’t ‘whiff’ on Hamilton. He offered more but was a victim of an NHL executives version of sour grapes. Never mind that they (Boston) fired him, they took it awful personal that he signed with another team.

    If you are buying a car and make an offer and the owner sells it to someone else for less thatn what you offered, who’s fault is that? And sells it to your biggest rival to boot? Chia wasn’t panicking, he was pissed.

  62. Snowman says:

    https://twitter.com/NHL/status/739119878234361857

    Chychrun is on the right…. that is a large teenager.

    The guy in the chair (I think) is Dubois..

    What are they feeding these kids. Good lord.

  63. Gret99zky says:

    godot10: Chiarellli had the rights to Martin Marincin, but he didn’t “have” Marinicn. Marincin was never going to sign another contract with the Oilers.MacT burned every bridge the organization had to Marincin.Honour is a big thing to central and east Europeans, and MacT behaved totally dishonourably towards Marincin.No way in hell he was signing another contract with the Oilers.

    Absolutely. And with MacT still around to pop in and remind Marincin how scrawny he still is, it was a fait accompli.

  64. gd says:

    Gret99zky: IMO, the Oilers are not deep enough to survive even league average injuries.

    They lack Depth & Balance.

    This mythical Depth and Balance does not exist on any team in the Cap Era NHL. Anaheim on D through unbelievably great drafting is the one team with depth on a position to withstand a couple of injuries. Almost every team would miss the playoffs with 2 or 3 key injuries for more than a third of the season.

    There are only about 90 legit top 4 Dmen. Yes the Oilers need 2 more, but reality and the future expansion draft means they can only justify getting one and hoping Klef is healthy and Davidson continues where he was when hurt.

  65. bucknuck says:

    Everyone seems to forget that when Chiarelli made that trade, he hadn’t signed Sekera or Gryba yet, and Davidson hadn’t emerged as competitive. The well was pretty dry, so he made a trade to add something that might help now. He trusted his people, who spoke so highly of Griffin, and made a trade that might had the potential to come up roses. I wasn’t in love with the cost, but I appreciated that he was working to address an obvious need.

    He takes way more heat for that trade than I think is appropriate.

    What I love is that after he made that trade he wasn’t counting on it panning out and added other options as well. It also created depth so that there was competition between him and Nurse. that isn’t a bad thing either. The better player got promoted. He DIDN’T just hope Nurse would be the answer and added insurance.

  66. Jethro Tull says:

    bucknuck,

    I don’t think the Nikitin trade was trashed as bad as the Rienhart trade.

  67. who says:

    Wonder Llama:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I suppose you’re right, though if Lindholm really is the next Hedman I’m not sure the overpayment is that much.

    Just for fun, here’s my ridiculous blockbuster trade with the Senators (please feel no obligation to comment unless you feel like it):

    TO OTTAWA:

    2016 4 OV
    2017 1st round pick
    Eberle
    RNH
    Yakupov
    Nurse

    TO EDMONTON:

    Karlsson
    Turris
    MacArthur ($1MM retained if OTT will agree)
    2016 12 OV

    Have to comment on this. Once again a crazy overpay for Karlson. Why would you decimate a roster to acquire one player. You are giving up 4 blue chippers for Karlson and Turris. I will say 12OV and 2017 first rounder are a wash. Why would you do this and how does it make the Oilers a better team?

  68. RexLibris says:

    If Chiarelli decides to move Hall I would suggest that he has lost the script.

    Here’s my reasoning.

    Hall and Nugent-Hopkins are two key pieces of the roster in so far as they are signed long-term, provide quality minutes and production at important positions and force every other player to move down a slot with the exception of McDavid, and arguably even he had some minutes shaved off in his rookie season on account of RNH’s ability to play against an opposition’s top line.

    A roster without Hall means that you HAVE to commit money to a new 1st line LW and if you aren’t doing it by trade then you are forced to sign Lucic and being forced to sign a player in free-agency is a recipe for disaster – especially so in a restricted cap world.

    A roster without Nugent-Hopkins could, conceivably, get by IF we assume the following: McDavid continues to progress (as safe a bet as one is likely to find in the world of predicting young players), Draisaitl finds consistency (not an easy bet, he is still developing), and the Oilers can sign or trade for a 3C to handle tough opposition when McLellan gets his match-ups.

    The idea behind all this trade talk is that the Oilers are moving from a position of depth, but the concept of trading from depth is based on moving out the pieces that aren’t your most valuable/crucial. You trade from your surplus, not your cornerstone.

    Hall makes Pouliot the surplus, not the other way around. McDavid makes Nugent-Hopkins the surplus, but only if you squint your eyes and tilt your head. Nugent-Hopkins is a complementary player to McDavid and Draisaitl at this time.

    The time to trade either isn’t now, but in two years’ time when you’ve put other pieces in place to help them both achieve more, increase their value, and have contributed more to the team that invested in them by way of picks and development.

    Consider the following: years ago ANA was ready to move Perry for Comrie, straight across. Comrie had established himself, Perry had not.

    Today that deal boggles the mind. Perry’s value increased exponentially because he was given time and a proper roster to find success.

    Do the same with Hall and McDavid and when it next comes time to consider moving either one, the Oilers will be the ones who can name their price, not left here haggling over who has to throw in what to even things up.

    Hall is the cornerstone of the Oilers’ offense, absent McDavid. Nugent-Hopkins is the forward anchor on the defensive side, pushing McDavid and Draisaitl into their proper roles on this team.

    Trading Hall would be the catastrophic gunshot to the head that ruins organizations.

    Trading Nugent-Hopkins would be the cup of poison that rots from the inside, where the gangrene and rot appear afterwards.

    So, if Chiarelli is trading either one of them this summer, he has lost the script.

  69. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    bucknuck:
    Everyone seems to forget that when Chiarelli made that trade, he hadn’t signed Sekera or Gryba yet, and Davidson hadn’t emerged as competitive.The well was pretty dry, so he made a trade to add something that might help now.He trusted his people, who spoke so highly of Griffin, and made a trade that might had the potential to come up roses.I wasn’t in love with the cost, but I appreciated that he was working to address an obvious need.

    He takes way more heat for that trade than I think is appropriate.

    What I love is that after he made that trade he wasn’t counting on it panning out and added other options as well.It also created depth so that there was competition between him and Nurse.that isn’t a bad thing either. The better player got promoted.He DIDN’T just hope Nurse would be the answer and added insurance.

    No, no one is forgetting that.

    In fact, we’ve specifically said on numerous times:

    –I wrote this the other day and was told by people that there was no depth on LHD at the time of the Reinhart trade. Yes, Sekera was added later and Davidson hadn’t emerged yet, but at the time they had
    Klefbom
    Nurse
    Marincin
    Davidson
    Oesterle
    Simpson
    Musil
    Now granted, bottom half of that may never be regular NHL material, but they paid an awfully high price to grab someone who was going to be competing with Marincin and Davidson on the depth chart.

    This isn’t hindsight trading, either. Look at Staples’ article from the time of the trade:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/why-i-have-my-doubts-about-thometown-hero-griffin-reinhart-but-also-my-fingers-crossed

    He gets the right amount of heat, in my opinion; the guy not getting enough heat? Bob Green who defended himself thusly after admitting he hadn’t seen any of GR’s games in Bridgeport in the AHL:

    “I know what he brings,” said Oilers Director of Player Personnel and former Oil Kings General Manager Bob Green. “I know what he brought in junior. He played one year pro, he’s got developing to do but Griffin is a winner. He’s got elite hockey sense, he’s 6-foot-4, he’s a defenceman and we need defencemen. He won a Memorial Cup Championship, he was the captain. He would have taken us there, I believe, when he was 18 but he got injured in the Conference Final that year. We took Portland to six games and maybe we could have won that series if we had him in the lineup. Did he struggle this year in the American League? I guess he did. But I believe in Griffin as a player and I think he’s going to be just fine.”

  70. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    RexLibris,

    You are spot on. I was hoping Maroon and Kassian scratched that itch for Chiarelli. The Kassian deal involved serious risk as well and probably still has repercussions we aren’t fully aware of.

    I can see Eberle moving to bring back a RHD (Hamonic) but if Hall and Nuge are moved I am going have to seriously question my allegiance to this team after being a fan across four decades and all over the world. We didn’t suffer for 10 years for Milan f8ckin Lucic gord-damnit.

  71. ASkoreyko says:

    Jethro Tull:
    ASkoreyko,

    Gret99zky,

    Wow.What a difference a year makes to our memories.Chia didn’t ‘whiff’ on Hamilton.He offered more but was a victim of an NHL executives version of sour grapes.Never mind that they (Boston)fired him, they took it awful personal that he signed with another team.

    If you are buying a car and make an offer and the owner sells it to someone else for less thatn what you offered, who’s fault is that?And sells it to your biggest rival to boot?Chia wasn’t panicking, he was pissed.

    Just so we are clear, I totally agree. I wasn’t blaming Chia for his inability to aquire Hamilton but rather that he was a victim of everything you just outlined.

    I think Chia is a reasonable man and made a solid offer, his old employers (that fired him no less) decided they didn’t want to behave like adults and instead took a sub-par offer instead.

    My point was, Chia had the right intentions and then panicked which lead to him making a poor decision. We have all done this before, it just happens that Chia’s is more public and is leading a lot of people to make other assumptions/judgments on his process and decision making ability. He has been fairly solid since then, I hope he will continue making rational decisions that we can generally all agree with.

  72. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    P.S. #itsnotgriffinsfault

    I like him plenty. It’s not his fault that the Oilers overpaid for an area of relative strength.

    If the Oilers stock up on LEFT WING of all positions this summer, then again they are overpaying for an area of relative strength.

    The best thing they have going for them
    C: RNH, McDavid, Draisaitl
    LW: Hall, Pouliot, Maroon
    LHD: Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, etc.

    Crickets:
    RW: Eberle, Yakupov?, …
    RHD: Fayne, …

    Address the starboard side, Chia. Don’t fuck with portside.

    This team is a frackin’ FIddler Crab at the moment and if Lucic is your next target you are hockeying wrong. It’s the furthest thing from balance.

    Wanna see what I mean by Fiddler Crab?
    http://www.carolina.com/images/product/large/142450_a_la.jpg

  73. Richard S.S. says:

    The Montreal Canadiens lost Price, filled in with what they could and struggled. P.K. Subban was not even significant to make a difference, despite being a top defender. Montreal’s biggest problem was they couldn’t score, woeful offense. The Defense and Goaltending was enough most nights, if enough offense was scored – and it wasn’t.

    Chiarelli offers Taylor Hall for increased Offense, Brandon Davidson to cover some of the Defense, pick #4 to draft Pierre-Luc Dubois and around $2.0 Million in cap savings. Darnell Nurse could be substituted for Davidson if Expansion is a issue. If early enough, Montreal could still trade the #4 if needed for something they want.

    What does Edmonton get back in return? Oilers acquire P.K. Subban and Montreal’s #9 pick. This is a fair deal – value for value – for both Teams. Anything more/any changes on either side and it doesn’t get done.

  74. Hockey Buddha says:

    Lowetide,
    Your dislike of the Reinhart trade (for Barzal and Stephens) is fairly consistently over-the-top in my opinion. To say that it was a trade that only made sense if Reinhart could help immediately is simply false. Reinhart could conceivably play in this league for another 15 years, and hes is still 3-4 seasons away from hitting his prime. An appropriate response to this trade is providing it the proper amount of seasoning that it deserves before judging it. Reinhart has better draft pedigree than either of the players who were sent the other way, and he met a positional need on the Oilers. Analyzing the deal repeatedly in separate multiple articles in spans of just a few weeks, isn’t terribly productive or enlightening, because nothing in that time is likely to change. It’s not a particularly useful practice when the boys aren’t even playing hockey. It comes across solely as an exercise in ax-grinding.

  75. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    By the way, and I just wanted to weigh in on the latest from the expansion draft. You knew the NHL was going to make NMCs exempt from the protection list. That’s just typical. Look how it magically helps Chicago, for example:

    NMCs (ineligible to be exposed, but exempted from being protected)
    Kane, Toews, Hossa, Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Crawford

    A guess at their protected list:
    Anisimov, Teravainen, Panarin, Shaw, Kruger, Panik, Desjardins (7F), Van Riemsdyk, Svedberg, Gustafsson (3D), Darling (G)

    Exposed:
    Rundblad, Bickell…

    Las Vegas MUST take at least one player from each team, but Chicago has 18!!! players exempt from the draft. 18.

    If this is what they go with (the NHL) and it sounds plausible, it’s a JOKE. But we all knew that anyway.

  76. stevezie says:

    Even if you feel the Oilers need a Lucic type, isn’t Okposo a better option?

    Am i overstating his truculence? Understating the Tavares effect?

  77. fifthcartel says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    NMCs have to be protected, but they still count towards the 7F, 3D, 1G I believe.

  78. Stelio Kontos says:

    I want to get this off my chest, but I don’t think a lot of people on here understand depth.

    We have a very top heavy RW. We have an elite talent in eberle, and you could argue that yak could play 2RW given the opportunity, but it isn’t wise to slot him there. Give him the minutes sure (unicorns), but I don’t want him there on the depth chart. Then you have an assortment of borderline 4th liners. It is a weak position. We need another pouliot who is right handed.

    LW has the best/second best LW in the game. Then pouliot, who is a very good 2nd liner, and maroon who is a very good 3rd liner. As well as hendricks, who is a good 4liner. I guess I would call that depth, but there is no redundancy. Only reason I call it depth is because hall is so good, otherwise it is average. You have to replace whoever you move with an off roster option. Good luck replacing hall and pouliot with better value players.

    C has legitimate depth, but there’s an asterisk because of youth. McDavid is the best player in the game. Draisaitl was fantastic when he had some cover. Nuge is a 1C who is is dwarfed by the fact the team provided no adequate cover since they traded horcoff. I think this centre depth is going to be the most important key to our success, but this is the only portion of the roster I see where you could replace a guy with a lesser guy, and not leave a gaping hole.

    LD has some redundancy, but I Klefbom is the only bonafide first pairing guy. Hopefully injuries don’t change that. Sekera and Davidson look like solid top 4, and Nurse reinhart should be pushing for top 4 next year. I could see flipping Sekera or Davidson for a Right hander, and being in good shape.

    RD is a 2/3 pairing guy and mud.

    My list has the need of 2 Right handed fwds. Could be a 3line RW and a RHC and move drai over, or could be a 2RW and a 3RW. Caveat is we could bring yak back as the 3rd guy. I guess I would be comfortable with bringing back a purcell and getting a bozak, and keeping Yak. We b*tch about the PP being horawful, but the biggest reason is probably because we have one right handed player on the whole goddamn roster who can hit the tape on a pass.

    Defence I could see moving one of Sekera or Davidson for a 2nd pairing guy or maybe with a bit of a kicker for Barrie. I think that Klef Davidson Reinhart/Nurse is reasonable for the left side, but maybe Sekera is the better keep, all depends.

    Draft wise, this is the first year I have ever advocated moving a pick. I do fear Tkachuk, and the Q factor with Dubois also makes me uneasy. Neither really suits a need. I know drafting for need, but I think there is a caveat when your whole roster is young guys. If the finn falls somehow i jump on that because he fits a need, but otherwise, I think I trade down or away. Maybe Montreal wants a frenchman, and would give us Petry for a swap of picks (little high for a 3rd pairing Dman). Or maybe Carolina or NJ will trade straight accross for the usual suspects. Or swap if we throw in a yak level kicker.

    I think it is fairly easy to right this ship, especially if we can sign demers. Haven’t thought about money, but I could see something like this:

    Hall CMD Eberle
    Pouliot Nuge Drai
    Maroon Bozak Yakupov
    Hendricks Latestu Iiro/prospect

    Klef Faulk
    Davidson Barrie
    Nurse Savard
    Fayne

    Talbot
    Reimer

    Sekera went for Barrie and the 4th went for faulk, with something small. Savard for Yak.

    EDIT: Waaah no trade clause. Waah expansion. Get over it. Point is small deals can take us there.

  79. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    fifthcartel:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    NMCs have to be protected, but they still count towards the 7F, 3D, 1G I believe.

    No, we don’t know anything. The latest as of last night is that NMCs are exempted from the whole process. What we know right now is nothing.

  80. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    Sekera has a NMC.
    Very unlikely Carolina moves Faulk (young, captain material, cheap contract, RHD (all their top D prospects are left handed), American). If they do, that signals a rebuild of their rebuild. That doesn’t seem likely at this stage. Maybe in 2 years they look to move Faulk if they think they can’t re-sign him and their young D are further along. It takes a gross overpayment to pry Faulk away now, and 4th overall isn’t it.

  81. commonfan14 says:

    Probably not information anyone has access to, but I was wondering the other day about the outlier LHS D who manage to play the right side pretty well and whether a disproportionate number of them might be be actual lefties.

    I also wonder if, now that the problem with LHS D playing on the right side is out there, there might be some coaching tactics that could be developed to compensate for it. Whether it’s implementing subtly different schemes or getting the guys a flatter blade to help with their backhand play, it seems short-sighted to write it off as a problem with no solutions.

  82. Walter Sobchak says:

    RexLibris,

    Hey Rex.

    Great post by the way, question.

    With what’s coming out of Stuaffers show he seems to really believe that RNH or Hall will be gone.
    However, he did throw in a name that until recently everyone had as a non tradable player in Draisaitl.

    Bob seems to think that the value of Draisaitl might be more than that of RNH, and some very serious offers have been put forth regarding Draisaitl.

    If your opposed to RNH being delt, how opposed would people be dealing Draisaitl?

    My feeling is I have zero idea how Draisaitl might develop and showed both signs of being very good to being really bad.

    If I had a choice he’d be the player I trade.

  83. fifthcartel says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I haven’t seen this, that seems pretty outrageous if true. Is there a link to this I can check out?

  84. Wonder Llama says:

    who,

    If it’s a “massive” overpayment, adjustments can be made. Swap out Nurse for Reinhart, Eberle for Pouliot, whatever it takes. If it’s a slight overpayment I think it’s worth it. With the arguable exception of Doughtry, I think Karlsson is the best Dman in the NHL. He is just entering his prime and can play close to 30 minutes every night. He is on a value contract for the next three seasons. I would build my team around him and McDavid happily for the next decade or more.

  85. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    fifthcartel:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I haven’t seen this, that seems pretty outrageous if true. Is there a link to this I can check out?

    PJO had it first here last night, but it is all over reddit now

    Another possible update on the expansion draft:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/4ma67x/alex_burrows_gave_a_bunch_of_news_about_the/
    Edit 3: I spoke directly with Jean-Charles Lajoie on twitter, he confirms… Players with no-movement clause are not eligible to be drafted in the expansion draft. Therefore, teams do not have to protect players with no-movement clause, they can’t move at all under any circumstances. I also listened again to the interview carefully and Burrows also said the same thing.
    Which means Sekera would not have to be protected.
    Currently would mean:
    Hall, Eberle, RNH, Draisaitl
    Klefbom, Davidson, and another 2 defencemen?

  86. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    And Lebrun implied the same earlier this week “NMCs ineligible” he said, which seemed deliberately vague but implied this was different from what was known before, so NMCs would not have to be on the protected list but had to be honoured, so not available.

  87. Магия 10 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: PJO had it first here last night, but it is all over reddit now

    Another possible update on the expansion draft:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/4ma67x/alex_burrows_gave_a_bunch_of_news_about_the/
    Edit 3: I spoke directly with Jean-Charles Lajoie on twitter, he confirms… Players with no-movement clause are not eligible to be drafted in the expansion draft. Therefore, teams do not have to protect players with no-movement clause, they can’t move at all under any circumstances. I also listened again to the interview carefully and Burrows also said the same thing.
    Which means Sekera would not have to be protected.
    Currently would mean:
    Hall, Eberle, RNH, Draisaitl
    Klefbom, Davidson, and another 2 defencemen?

    Doubt the league gives am unlimited pass on NMC. If they allow some or all existing NMC not to count there will be a cutoff date to count all new NMC.

  88. Kepler62 says:

    “I would say P.K. Subban and Hampus Lindholm are the only two known blue who might fit into a Hall trade conversation.”

    JUSTIN FAULK!?

    Carolina needs a high profile forward and they are loaded in defensive prospects. Hall is also on a really good salary for what he brings and the Hurricanes are a budget team. Also there was a fantastic article the other day on Justin Faulk’s back loaded salary, Oilers could pay it no problem but a trade might entice the Hurricanes.

    Seems like a fantastic fit to me.

  89. 97 says:

    Does anybody know of a site that has real stats for the CHL?

  90. Richard S.S. says:

    The Ottawa Senators always seem to have good enough Offense. Their Goaltending should be good enough to keep them in most games. The Defense, as best as I’ve heard, is Erik Karlsson and some guys named who. They don’t have enough good Defense to do to the job.

    What gets offered depends on whether or not Subban was acquired. I’m not interested in either/or, I’m greedy. Chiarelli has to do an amazing selling job here. Oscar Klefbom, whichever of Nurse or Davidson not traded, Griffin Reinhart, the #9 pick and 2017 1st round picks.

    What does Edmonton get back in return? Oilers acquire Erik Karlsson. This is a fair deal – value for value – for both Teams and may not get done.

  91. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    I don’t know if it’s possible but what about the idea of trading for Lucic BEFORE the draft? Not sure the cost maybe a mid round pick if LA doesn’t think they can sign him. Better than nothing.

    I think it was Lebrun who said yesterday that talks have gone quiet between him and the Kings. Trade for his rights and get him signed before the draft then we don’t have to draft Tkachuk. Instead that pick could be flipped for a guy like Barrie let’s say and their pick or packaged in a larger deal for Subban. It would give us a lot of flexibility moving forward and allow us to wait to move a guy like RNH when his value is at its highest hopefully (after the World Cup) if we dont get that big name Dman at the draft. Going into the draft already having Lucic on the roster would be great IMO. Just a thought.

  92. bucknuck says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    That list of LH defensemen is so weak it’s scary. It just proves my point. Marincin was on his way out, so the only player with any experience was Klefbom. Chiarelli added insuranec. That trade could still work out.

    The only way this trade is a bust is if Barzal turns out far superior to Griffin. I have my doubts.

  93. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    bucknuck:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    That list of LH defensemen is so weak it’s scary.It just proves my point.Marincin was on his way out, so the only player with any experience was Klefbom.Chiarelli added insuranec.That trade could still work out.

    The only way this trade is a bust is if Barzal turns out far superior to Griffin.I have my doubts.

    Why does it hang on Barzal? It has been reported the Oilers were not going to take Barzal.

    If you think the LHD depth was weak, would you like to see the right-handed D depth? Hamilton actually made sense to go after. Reinhart, not so much.

    I have never said the trade was a bust. I have only said that Chia overpaid for what he thought was an NHL-ready young, top 4, left-handed D. He was wrong.

    My point doesn’t prove yours at all. It refutes it.

  94. John Chambers says:

    Wonder Llama:
    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”,

    I suppose you’re right, though if Lindholm really is the next Hedman I’m not sure the overpayment is that much.

    Just for fun, here’s my ridiculous blockbuster trade with the Senators (please feel no obligation to comment unless you feel like it):

    TO OTTAWA:

    2016 4 OV
    2017 1st round pick
    Eberle
    RNH
    Yakupov
    Nurse

    TO EDMONTON:

    Karlsson
    Turris
    MacArthur ($1MM retained if OTT will agree)
    2016 12 OV

    God I miss the days of the blockbuster trade.

  95. stush18 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    P.S. #itsnotgriffinsfault

    I like him plenty. It’s not his fault that the Oilers overpaid for an area of relative strength.

    If the Oilers stock up on LEFT WING of all positions this summer, then again they are overpaying for an area of relative strength.

    The best thing they have going for them
    C: RNH, McDavid, Draisaitl
    LW: Hall, Pouliot, Maroon
    LHD: Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Reinhart, Davidson, etc.

    Crickets:
    RW: Eberle, Yakupov?, …
    RHD: Fayne, …

    Address the starboard side, Chia. Don’t fuck with portside.

    This team is a frackin’ FIddler Crab at the moment and if Lucic is your next target you are hockeying wrong. It’s the furthest thing from balance.

    Wanna see what I mean by Fiddler Crab?
    http://www.carolina.com/images/product/large/142450_a_la.jpg

    I think the reason chia would sign lucid is because hall and poukiot have been dealt to shore up the right side. Then you are effectively only adding a rh shot for money basically.

  96. GCW_69 says:

    Oilers Nerd Alert (@OilersNerdAlert) tweeted at 1:32 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    Spots occupied by Hall, Lindholm, and Lucic for their respective teams on the ‘cumulative shot attempts’ dashboards. https://t.co/XAjVFt7N0x
    (https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/739147908969205760?s=09)

    GCW (@GCW_69) tweeted at 4:02 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    @OilersNerdAlert if I am reading those right, Lindholm looks pretty good. Is that correct?
    (https://twitter.com/GCW_69/status/739185609193967616?s=09)

    Oilers Nerd Alert (@OilersNerdAlert) tweeted at 4:04 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    @GCW_69 Pretty … freaking … good!  (possession wise, anyway) He’s tops, and he’s being goosed by nobody.
    (https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/739186052389208064?s=09)

  97. GCW_69 says:

    stevezie:
    Even if you feel the Oilers need a Lucic type, isn’t Okposo a better option?

    Am i overstating his truculence? Understating the Tavares effect?

    Okposo is an American who has been enjoying new York and has no ties to Edmonton .

  98. Lowetide says:

    Kepler62:
    “I would say P.K. Subban and Hampus Lindholm are the only two known blue who might fit into a Hall trade conversation.”

    JUSTIN FAULK!?

    Carolina needs a high profile forward and they are loaded in defensive prospects.Hall is also on a really good salary for what he brings and the Hurricanes are a budget team.Also there was a fantastic article the other day on Justin Faulk’s back loaded salary, Oilers could pay it no problem but a trade might entice the Hurricanes.

    Seems like a fantastic fit to me.

    Not for me. Subban is an established player, and Lindholm really looks good, but beyond those two no one on Seravalli’s list (and not Faulk) would be worthy of a Hall conversation.

  99. stush18 says:

    I would encourage everyone to go and take a look at lucic”s stats from the past few years. They are very encouraging. More than good enough to be playing frst line left wing on basically any line in the nhl.

    His linemates corsifor% drops to second line quality when they play without him, and sits above 55% with, while their goalsfor% climbs to first line territ or with him as well.

    He basically performs above the first line left wing threshold for every category except shot suppression, and despite that is still more than a positive possession player for his career.

    If pouliot is dealt for vatanen, or hall for an elite dman, and are replaced with lucic, then I’ll be fine with that outcome.

    For the record iwould like to sign okposo, suspect he coats less than lucic

  100. Frank the dog says:

    The only way Hall gets traded is if he has quietly asked out.

  101. JDï™ says:

    John Chambers: God I miss the days of the blockbuster trade.

    Save for August 9th, yes.

  102. Hockey Buddha says:

    “Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.” You were the greatest, Champ, the best ever to don on the mitts. You were an inspiration to untold millions. I was one young man that you certainly impacted powerfully early in my life. R.I.P. Muhammad Ali.

    If you haven’t seen it, “When We Were Kings” is a fine documentary on Ali and Foreman. We lost a great one yesterday.

  103. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    GCW_69:
    Oilers Nerd Alert (@OilersNerdAlert) tweeted at 1:32 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    Spots occupied by Hall, Lindholm, and Lucic for their respective teams on the ‘cumulative shot attempts’ dashboards. https://t.co/XAjVFt7N0x
    (https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/739147908969205760?s=09)

    GCW (@GCW_69) tweeted at 4:02 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    @OilersNerdAlert if I am reading those right, Lindholm looks pretty good. Is that correct?
    (https://twitter.com/GCW_69/status/739185609193967616?s=09)

    Oilers Nerd Alert (@OilersNerdAlert) tweeted at 4:04 PM on Sat, Jun 04, 2016:
    @GCW_69 Pretty … freaking … good! (possession wise, anyway) He’s tops, and he’s being goosed by nobody.
    (https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/739186052389208064?s=09)

    I totally agree. Lindholm is the real deal. I question his availability. I think he is the Ducks’ most important piece for the future. They trade Vatanen and/or Fowler before moving Lindholm, I think.

  104. Hockey Buddha says:

    Lowetide: Not for me. Subban is an established player, and Lindholm really looks good, but beyond those two no one on Seravalli’s list (and not Faulk) would be worthy of a Hall conversation.

    I’d agree but think that Subban is a salary mismatch for Hall. We also have Ethan Bear in the system that seems potentially like a Subban-type, if everything continues to break right.

  105. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Hockey Buddha: We also have Ethan Bear in the system that seems potentially like a Subban-type, if everything continues to break right.

    !!!! 🙂 !!!!

  106. RandomPoster says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I have never said the trade was a bust. I have only said that Chia overpaid for what he thought was an NHL-ready young, top 4, left-handed D. He was wrong.

    This kind of reads like he planned to put Griffin in a top 4 right away. I believe he said his plan was 3rd pairing with Gryba. It turned out that Davidson worked better with Gryba. Reinhart lost his opportunity in the 3rd pair.

  107. Richard S.S. says:

    Hockey Buddha,

    The Oilers need to add a Defenseman, probably Davidson in a Hall-Subban trade, and $9.0 Million minus $7.425 Million is easy math for this site.

  108. Caramel Batman says:

    Hockey Buddha:
    Lowetide,
    Your dislike of the Reinhart trade (for Barzal and Stephens) is fairly consistently over-the-top in my opinion.To say that it was a trade that only made sense if Reinhart could help immediately is simply false.Reinhart could conceivably play in this league for another 15 years, and hes is still 3-4seasons away from hitting his prime.An appropriate response to this trade is providing it the proper amount of seasoning that it deserves before judging it.Reinhart has better draft pedigree than either of the players who were sent the other way, and he met a positional need on the Oilers.Analyzing the deal repeatedly in separate multiple articles in spans of just a few weeks, isn’t terribly productive or enlightening, because nothing in that time is likely to change.It’s not a particularly useful practice when the boys aren’t even playing hockey.It comes across solely as an exercise in ax-grinding.

    This is pretty mindless. The trade was obviously terrible at the time and turned out worse than expected. To say otherwise is to doubledown on the absurd rationalization the faithful used to defend the trade at the time.

    It was an indefensible trade if Reinhart hit his ceiling. It is worse now. That some people can’t see that shows they not only lack insight, but are incapable of self-reflection. It is time for the mea culpa I think.

  109. Caramel Batman says:

    Honestly people, Chiarelli traded a first and a second round pick for a player who had a worse track record than Marincin who then followed it up by having a worse year.

    If Chiarelli had traded Marincin for a first and second round pick we would rightly laud him as a genius. Well he did the opposite of that, which makes Chiarelli the opposite of a genius.

  110. Gret99zky says:

    The Reinhart trade is a fail because we needed an NHL ready DMan while McDavid began his ELC.

    Reinhart ready in a couple seasons defeats the purpose of the trade when it happened.

  111. Jethro Tull says:

    Caramel Batman:
    Honestly people, Chiarelli traded a first and a second round pick for a player who had a worse track record than Marincin who then followed it up by having a worse year.

    If Chiarelli had traded Marincin for a first and second round pick we would rightly laud him as a genius.Well he did the opposite of that, which makes Chiarelli the opposite of a genius.

    Smart people can still do stupid things. One trade doesn’t define Chiarelli.

    Garth Snow and Thomas Vanek say hi.

    http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/03/05/garth-snow-islanders-laughing-stock-after-thomas-vanek-deal

  112. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Gret99zky:

    Reinhart ready in a couple seasons defeats the purpose of the trade when it happened.

    THIS!

  113. Lowetide says:

    Hockey Buddha: I’d agree but think that Subban is a salary mismatch for Hall.We also have Ethan Bear in the system that seems potentially like a Subban-type, if everything continues to break right.

    I would be fine with Subban on the NHL team and Bear signed. 🙂

  114. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    RandomPoster: This kind of reads like he planned to put Griffin in a top 4 right away. I believe he said his plan was 3rd pairing with Gryba. It turned out that Davidson worked better with Gryba. Reinhart lost his opportunity in the 3rd pair.

    Fair, that’s not what I meant. Play in the NHL right away and be a top 4 soon. From the horse’s mouth. Again, it reads like Bob Green overestimated his readiness (and hadn’t seen him in Bridgeport at all), and scares me that Lowe’s assessment of him is way off (why is he being quoted anyway?)

    “I know what he brings,” said Oilers Director of Player Personnel and former Oil Kings General Manager Bob Green. “I know what he brought in junior. He played one year pro, he’s got developing to do but Griffin is a winner. He’s got elite hockey sense, he’s 6-foot-4, he’s a defenceman and we need defencemen. He won a Memorial Cup Championship, he was the captain. He would have taken us there, I believe, when he was 18 but he got injured in the Conference Final that year. We took Portland to six games and maybe we could have won that series if we had him in the lineup. Did he struggle this year in the American League? I guess he did. But I believe in Griffin as a player and I think he’s going to be just fine.”

    Dating back to 2012 there has always been interest in Reinhart for the Oilers. He’s stayed on their radar so there was a lot of information to be shared at the Oilers draft table when the calls were being made.

    “We had a lot of people in our organization, including Bob, that we’ve spoken (with about) Griffin over the last two months and two days, the length of my tenure. To get players that you know, that’s important,” said Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli.

    Reinhart is a young defenceman still developing, but the talent and measurables are there.

    “He just has an all-around game,” said Vice Chair of Oilers Entertainment Group Kevin Lowe. “He’s got size, which is important in today’s game. He’s got an elite head, in terms of thinking the game. He’s got a great stick. He’s got some offence. He can be a shutdown guy or he can play on your power play. He can do it all in junior and no doubt in my mind he’ll be able to do the same thing in the NHL. It’s going to take a while, like it does with young defencemen but he’s already had a year pro. He should be able to step in and help us next year.”

    “He’s a horse,” added Green. “He can play all night, he’s 6-foot-4, he can move the puck, he’s got elite hockey sense, he’s got great hands. I mean, he’s the complete package of what you want in a defenceman and he’s 21-years-old.”

    Chiarelli agrees, saying Reinhart has the tools to be a good NHL defenceman. The Oilers have made no secret of their intentions to lock down defencemen who can come in and contribute. They were in on Boston Bruins d-man Dougie Hamilton, who was traded to the Calgary Flames for three 2015 picks. That trade didn’t work out for the Oilers, but the Reinhart one made sense to the organization, despite having good players left on the board at 16.

    “We’ve been hunting for defencemen and there’s a lot of intelligence on Griffin internally,” said Chiarelli. “I’ve always liked him as a player. He’s been behind a lot of good defencemen in Long Island. I’d had discussions with Garth, on and off over the last month or so. We just kind of ramped up those discussions. I saw him in pro a couple times last year. I saw him in London at the Memorial Cup and he was just a horse. Happy to get him. We had some guys at 16 we liked but this was something we decided to act on. He’s ready to play and he’s going to be a very good part of our D.”

    Both Chiarelli and Green disclosed that they deem Reinhart ready to play in the NHL this season. They expect him to make the team out of camp.

    “I would hope so, yeah,” said Chiarelli. “He’s a young defenceman. He’s still finding his way but he’s big, he’s strong, he’s very smart, can play a lot of minutes. And you know what? He’s a young D that we’re happy to have in our mix, that can grow with us and help us right away.”

    Source:
    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=772521

  115. Raider Jesse says:

    I’m telling you guys right now… Faulk isn’t in the same realm as Lindholm.

    I like Taylor Hall alot, I buy his memorabilia, but every player, every player is simply an asset. If you can trade an asset for a better one you do it.

    Lindholm, who Anahiem would be insane to trade, if actually available due to contract demands is the type of player you trade Taylor Hall for. I’m sorry but a top end defender always helps you win more than a top end winger. Especially when the team already has McDavid, Eberle, Nuge, Drai, Pouliot, and by the sounds of things maybe Lucic + Dubios or Tkachuk for the top 6.

    There are alot of really smart people who have made arguments Lindholm was one of if not the best defenseman in the league last year.

    Now I hear talk of it being Hall for Lindholm +. Is that someone like Rakell? That’s money.

    If this whole NMC don’t need to be protected thing and are exempt is true, which I hope it’s not because it’s absolute bullshit that Chicago doesn’t have to expose anything, then I guess we could really get a hell of a goalie for next to nothing as well. Since Talbot doesn’t have to be protected.

  116. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    I just want to say that I think Bob Green has a good eye for junior talent. I am glad he is part of the team. But somehow he has escaped most of the criticism for the Reinhart trade when it has his fingerprints all over it. He should share in the credit with Chiarelli.

  117. Lowetide says:

    Raider Jesse:
    I’m telling you guys right now… Faulk isn’t in the same realm as Lindholm.

    Lindholm, who Anahiem would be insane to trade, if actually available due to contract demands is the type of player you trade Taylor Hall for.

    There are alot of really smart people who have made arguments Lindholm was one of if not the best defenseman in the league last year.

    If this whole NMC don’t need to be protected thing and are exempt is true, which I hope it’s not because it’s absolute bullshit that Chicago doesn’t have to expose anything, then I guess we could really get a hell of a goalie for next to nothing as well.Since Talbot doesn’t have to be protected.

    Sure. I just don’t think you trade Hall straight up for Lindholm. No question he has value.

  118. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Raider Jesse,

    Agreed. IF Lindholm were made available (a huge IF, which I really doubt), he would be my number one target over Barrie, Vatanen, Faulk, Hamonic, Demers, etc., you name it. Handedness be damned, he is really good and young.

    But I doubt Anaheim is that crazy.

  119. Lowetide says:

    Hockey Buddha:
    Lowetide,
    Your dislike of the Reinhart trade (for Barzal and Stephens) is fairly consistently over-the-top in my opinion.To say that it was a trade that only made sense if Reinhart could help immediately is simply false.Reinhart could conceivably play in this league for another 15 years, and hes is still 3-4seasons away from hitting his prime.An appropriate response to this trade is providing it the proper amount of seasoning that it deserves before judging it.Reinhart has better draft pedigree than either of the players who were sent the other way, and he met a positional need on the Oilers.Analyzing the deal repeatedly in separate multiple articles in spans of just a few weeks, isn’t terribly productive or enlightening, because nothing in that time is likely to change.It’s not a particularly useful practice when the boys aren’t even playing hockey.It comes across solely as an exercise in ax-grinding.

    I have maintained:

    1. Chiarelli paid too much
    2. The main point of the trade was to get an NHL-ready player.

    I like Reinhart as a player. I do not like Chiarelli’s move. Both things can be true.

  120. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Lowetide: Sure. I just don’t think you trade Hall straight up for Lindholm. No question he has value.

    I don’t think you have to worry, because Anaheim doesn’t want to spend $6M. If they did, they’d just sign Lindholm, know what I mean? If Anaheim deals Lindholm to the Oilers, the assets going the other way would be some things from the mix of:
    #4
    Drai
    Nurse
    Klefbom

    Their internal cap would be the only conceivable reason why they would even consider moving Lindholm at all. His value is multiples of Vatanen’s.

  121. skidplate says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    Hi LT and all,

    Seeing some malware type stuff happening every time I click on links on your site. I’ve run scans of my computer and found nothing (doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist). I haven’t had the same issues with other sites I frequent so was just wondering if anyone else was seeing similar? Happens when I try to click on a new post link or go to the log-in page.

    If no one else has the issue then no worries.

    Hey NYCOIL, that has happened to me as well on my phone several times. Not sure what protection I have on my phone, but I just close the window and get back on Lowetide.

  122. stevezie says:

    Hockey Buddha,

    I think he is being really, really even-handed and would suggest that any defense of the trade is coloured by your high opinion of the player.

    The reasons are many, thorough, and entirely convincing, but they are also well known so i don’t feel the need to restate. If you like Griff more than I do that’s great, but your criticism of the criticism of the trade suggests you’re ignoring the conversation.

  123. Frank the dog says:

    skidplate: Hey NYCOIL, that has happened to me as well on my phone several times. Not sure what protection I have on my phone, but I just close the window and get back on Lowetide.

    I also get some pretty severe malware blocked when I click. Not just the regular pups.

  124. Water Fire says:

    stush18:
    I would encourage everyone to go and take a look at lucic”s stats from the past few years.They are very encouraging. More than good enough to be playing frst line left wing on basically any line in the nhl.

    His linemates corsifor% drops to second line quality when they play without him, and sits above 55% with, while their goalsfor% climbs to first line territ or with him as well.

    He basically performs above the first line left wing threshold for every category except shot suppression,and despite that is still more than a positive possession player for his career.

    If pouliot is dealt for vatanen, or hall for an elite dman, and are replaced with lucic, then I’ll be fine with that outcome.

    For the record iwould like to sign okposo, suspect he coats less than lucic

    Contact sports is combat. The more pressure you can bear on your opponent the more likely that they will break.

    We are witnessing that in these playoffs as Pittsburgh is using their speed to fend off San Jose exposing their weak D.

    What Lucic brings is top 6 talent and a gigantic distraction for the other team. Pouliot is more skilled but is not feared. Lucic is an animal who either gets points on you and failing that attacks.

    Hall is a far better player than Lucic, but Lucic would be the second best winger on the team at this point and add a very different element even from Kassian and Maroon.

  125. Raider Jesse says:

    Lowetide,

    Ideally you get Lindholm for less, but if Anaheim comes to you and says We’ll give you Rackell and Lindholm for Hall, let us know, or we’re flipping him to team X.

    I do it.

    I’d rather trade Hall for Lindholm+ than Nuge+ for Faulk.

  126. Lowetide says:

    Raider Jesse:
    Lowetide,

    Ideally you get Lindholm for less, but if Anaheim comes to you and says We’ll give you Rickell and Lindholm for Hall, let us know, or we’re flipping him to team X.

    I do it.

    I’d rather trade Hall for Lindholm+ than Nuge+ for Faulk.

    Oh God yes, but Rakell is a helluva sweetener.

  127. fifthcartel says:

    I remember following Twitter right when the 16th pick was approaching. Barzal looked like he would fall to 16 and they hadn’t traded it yet so I was getting pretty excited he would be their pick. Then Bob Stauffer tweeted he thought the pick would go out for an “emerging defensemen”.

    I quickly thought of who that might be, Ryan Ellis, Damon Severson, Sami Vatanen, but then I saw the next tweet, “Griffin Reinhart,” and was completely disappointed.

    If the idea was to get an emerging defensemen, that was not the right player. Especially when he’s almost guaranteed not to be on the roster next year as well. At this point Barzal + Stephens/Roy would likely have more valuable as tradable assets than Reinhart does.

    Add in the fact that he’s a left-handed defensemen that is unlikely to provide offense, and its one of Chiarelli most curious moves since becoming GM.

    They missed on Hamilton, but they should have just acquired Wisniewski and made the picks at 16 and 33.

  128. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Lowetide: Oh God yes, but Rakell is a helluva sweetener.

    Can we get Anaheim’s scouts thrown in the deal? If the team has internal money issues I’d almost rather have Katz open up the wallet to poach their amateur procurement department. They turn up so many gems.

  129. who says:

    Ok we are talking Hall for Lindholm and I have heard a lot of Poo for Vatanen who I just don’t think is that good. How about something in the middle. Do you think that Poo + for Fowler is something Anaheim would look at. If so I would make that trade and then look to flip Fowler for a righty like Trouba, Bogosian, etc. You might even get a sweetener thrown in.

  130. Магия 10 says:

    RandomPoster: This kind of reads like he planned to put Griffin in a top 4 right away. I believe he said his plan was 3rd pairing with Gryba. It turned out that Davidson worked better with Gryba. Reinhart lost his opportunity in the 3rd pair.

    Right on. It’s a bit rich that almost everyone here was willing to expose Davey to waivers but they can count Davey passing Reinhart as a fail for Reinhart. Just possibly Chia and Green et. al. had a clearer view of the hand they were playing than the onlookers:

    1. Davey was closer than it looked from the outside
    2. Reinhart was Davey insurance
    3. 8D to start the season was highly probable as far back as the draft.

    Reinhart started the season showing some good things and some bad playing injured. Nurse had a unsustainable start and then bizarre usage, but by then the insurance policy had been sent down to the A to slow cook.

    We’ll judge Chia and his insurance policy when Reinhart is or isn’t the steady 3rd pairing by Christmas that Chia claimed he could have been this year if needed. A bit early for anyone to say top 6 is Reinhart’s ceiling given how wrong most were on Davey.

  131. Hockey Buddha says:

    Caramel Batman: This is pretty mindless.The trade was obviously terrible at the time and turned out worse than expected.To say otherwise is to doubledown on the absurd rationalization the faithful used to defend thetrade at the time.

    It was an indefensible trade if Reinhart hit his ceiling.It is worse now.That some people can’t see that shows they not only lack insight, but are incapable of self-reflection.It is time for the mea culpa I think.

    I’m impressed by the certainty of your post, CB. The points that I lack insight and am incapable of self-reflection are noted. I’ll try to take a more phenomenological-existentialist approach in the future, if that pleases you. However, if you understand the developmental path most NHL defenseman take, then you’ll know that it is impossible–at this point–to know who won this trade. We can make pointless guesses and assertions with partial information, but the fact of the matter is that we are a few years away from knowing with any certainty who won this trade. Reinhart finished the season slightly ahead of Nurse in his play, another promising young defender. Both players have very bright futures in the NHL and both have to improve their respective games. My criticism was how often this trade gets mentioned as a dismal failure, which is something that we cannot yet know with any degree of certainty. Both Nurse and Reinhart have lots of unfulfilled potential. If you can’t see that, if you’ve likely never watched a young defenseman develop, and don’t feel the need to reserve judgment on these players. If that’s the case, then I don’t really know what to say. I only wish I was so smart that I could project perfectly into the future, if only I had your insight and was capable of self-reflection.

  132. Wonder Llama says:

    Hockey Buddha: I’m impressed by the certainty of your post, CB.The points that I lack insight and am incapable of self-reflection are noted.I’ll try to take a more phenomenological-existentialist approach in the future, if that pleases you.However, if you understand the developmental path most NHL defenseman take, then you’ll know that it is impossible–at this point–to know who won this trade.We can make pointless guesses and assertions with partial information, but the fact of the matter is that we are a few years away from knowing with any certainty who won this trade.Reinhart finished the season slightly ahead of Nurse in his play, another promising young defender.Both players have very bright futures in the NHL and both have to improve their respective games.My criticism was how often this trade gets mentioned as a dismal failure, which is something that we cannot yet know with any degree of certainty.Both Nurse and Reinhart have lots of unfulfilled potential.If you can’t see that, if you’ve likely never watched a young defenseman develop, and don’t feel the need to reserve judgment on these players.If that’s the case, then I don’t really know what to say.I only wish I was so smart that I could project perfectly into the future, if only I had your insight and was capable of self-reflection.

    I think there are two issues here:

    1. Will this end up being a good trade for the Oilers in the long run?

    2. Was this a good trade in the short run?

    The answer to the first question is unknowable yet, but I would maintain that the answer to question two is a resounding “no.”

    Now that we’ve gone through the pain of another embarrassing season the sting of the short-term aspect will start to diminish and we can look towards GR’s future. But as many have pointed out the essential problem was not whether or not the trade was an overpayment – the mistake was not acquiring a Dman that the team KNEW was established and ready to play, not one they HOPED was ready.

  133. VOR says:

    There is actually a way to impartially evaluate the Reinhart trade, we just can’t do it yet. Michael Schucker’s ranking table says that if you trade a 16th and a 33rd that you are giving up on an average of 650 NHL man games. If the day comes that Reinhart plays his 650th game in the NHL we will know statistically speaking Edmonton won the trade. I personally don’t think it is preposterous to suggest Reinhart might one day reach that goal. Those of you who are in such a hurry to judge this trade which admittedly was a strategic blunder need to remember it is entirely possible to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. If Griffin Reinhart plays 650 games as a #4 defenceman in the NHL will any of us care that strategically it was an epic fail in the first two years post trade? The guy who played at the end of the season looked like he might be capable of exactly that.

  134. stevezie says:

    VOR,

    I think it is fair to weigh the opportunity costas part of the deal. Not only did we trade those picks for GR, we didn’t trade them for anybody else.

    Considering that from the moment the trade was made to now we have been desperate to address our weaknesses without moving a roster contributor, yes Reinhart ‘s development time will continue to be an issue even if he eventually “gets there”.

  135. stevezie says:

    Hockey Buddha,

    The key here is not one person’s tone, it’s that there is a mountain of evidence that the “ax-grinding” you thought you saw was actually a fair representation of the issue.

    Lots of people hated the trade, still hate the trade, and have good reasons for doing so. Even if you like the trade you still have to admit these three things.

  136. rich says:

    RexLibris:
    If Chiarelli decides to move Hall I would suggest that he has lost the script.

    Here’s my reasoning.

    Hall and Nugent-Hopkins are two key pieces of the roster in so far as they are signed long-term, provide quality minutes and production at important positions and force every other player to move down a slot with the exception of McDavid, and arguably even he had some minutes shaved off in his rookie season on account of RNH’s ability to play against an opposition’s top line.

    A roster without Hall means that you HAVE to commit money to a new 1st line LW and if you aren’t doing it by trade then you are forced to sign Lucic and being forced to sign a player in free-agency is a recipe for disaster – especially so in a restricted cap world.

    A roster without Nugent-Hopkins could, conceivably, get by IF we assume the following: McDavid continues to progress (as safe a bet as one is likely to find in the world of predicting young players), Draisaitl finds consistency (not an easy bet, he is still developing), and the Oilers can sign or trade for a 3C to handle tough opposition when McLellan gets his match-ups.

    The idea behind all this trade talk is that the Oilers are moving from a position of depth, but the concept of trading from depth is based on moving out the pieces that aren’t your most valuable/crucial. You trade from your surplus, not your cornerstone.

    Hall makes Pouliot the surplus, not the other way around. McDavid makes Nugent-Hopkins the surplus, but only if you squint your eyes and tilt your head. Nugent-Hopkins is a complementary player to McDavid and Draisaitl at this time.

    The time to trade either isn’t now, but in two years’ time when you’ve put other pieces in place to help them both achieve more, increase their value, and have contributed more to the team that invested in them by way of picks and development.

    Consider the following: years ago ANA was ready to move Perry for Comrie, straight across. Comrie had established himself, Perry had not.

    Today that deal boggles the mind. Perry’s value increased exponentially because he was given time and a proper roster to find success.

    Do the same with Hall and McDavid and when it next comes time to consider moving either one, the Oilers will be the ones who can name their price, not left here haggling over who has to throw in what to even things up.

    Hall is the cornerstone of the Oilers’ offense, absent McDavid. Nugent-Hopkins is the forward anchor on the defensive side, pushing McDavid and Draisaitl into their proper roles on this team.

    Trading Hall would be the catastrophic gunshot to the head that ruins organizations.

    Trading Nugent-Hopkins would be the cup of poison that rots from the inside, where the gangrene and rot appear afterwards.

    So, if Chiarelli is trading either one of them this summer, he has lost the script.

    Well done sir.

    You don’t trade Hall. Period. i would hope that Chia has learned from the mistake of trading Seguin that he doesn’t repeat that move here.

    Now is not the time to trade Nuge. Perry-Comrie comparison is excellent.

    That is all.

  137. Gordies Elbow says:

    Магия 10,

    “Reinhart started the season showing some good things and some bad playing injured.” – yep, he lost his position due to both injury and play, but apparently recovered at the end of the year.

    GR was traded for Matthew Barzal and Mitchell Stephens. Barzal’s draft +1 looks like Michael St. Croix (not good, and I’m an OK fan,) and Mitchell Stephens had an injury plagued season (starting with a broken foot, leading to losing a large chunk of development.)

    I didn’t like the trade at the time, and expressed so, but it’s looking better over time.

  138. VOR says:

    Stevezie, I don’t think opportunity costs apply because we have less than perfect knowledge. We have no way of valuing the 16th and the 33rd as assets in other potential deals since we don’t have any idea what was on the table or what the ask was. We don’t really even know if P.C. sees the team the way most posters here do. The only thing we can say with impartiality is that fair value for those picks is somewhere around 650 NHL games. Any number of attempts at assigning points, etc. have failed. That said for it to be a clear win Reinhart probably needs to be an above average 4d. Though how you would measure that I have no idea.

  139. godot10 says:

    Hockey Buddha: I’d agree but think that Subban is a salary mismatch for Hall.We also have Ethan Bear in the system that seems potentially like a Subban-type, if everything continues to break right.

    The OIlers have Ethan Bear’s rights for one more year. He is not in the system. He has not signed a contract. See Tomas Rieder. The guys who nickel and dimed Rieder are still in the front office.

    It is dangerous to count your chickens…

  140. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Магия 10: Right on.It’s a bit rich that almost everyone here was willing to expose Davey to waivers but they can count Davey passing Reinhart as a fail for Reinhart.Just possibly Chia and Green et. al. had a clearer view of the hand they were playing than the onlookers:

    1. Davey was closer than it looked from the outside
    2. Reinhart was Davey insurance
    3. 8D to start the season was highly probable as far back as the draft.

    Reinhart started the season showing some good things and some bad playing injured. Nurse had a unsustainable start and then bizarre usage, but by then the insurance policy had been sent down to the A to slow cook.

    We’ll judge Chia and his insurance policy when Reinhart is or isn’t the steady 3rd pairing by Christmas that Chia claimed he could have been this year if needed. A bit early for anyone to say top 6 is Reinhart’s ceiling given how wrong most were on Davey.

    I responded to that comment above already. I clarified that I didn’t mean to suggest Chiarelli assumed he would be top 4 right away, and provided quotes about what he DID say. Did you see that post or just wanted to pile on? ha ha

  141. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: I have maintained:

    1. Chiarelli paid too much
    2. The main point of the trade was to get an NHL-ready player.

    I like Reinhart as a player. I do not like Chiarelli’s move. Both things can be true.

    If you played Reinhart with Brian Campbell, he’d be NHL ready. The thing with rookie D is one needs a sufficiently competent veteran to play them with. Gryba wasn’t a sufficiently good puck mover to cover where Reinhart needed cover.

    Ditto Nurse, who many are now down on.

  142. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Gordies Elbow:
    Магия 10,

    “Reinhart started the season showing some good things and some bad playing injured.” – yep, he lost his position due to both injury and play, but apparently recovered at the end of the year.

    GR was traded for Matthew Barzal and Mitchell Stephens. Barzal’s draft +1 looks like Michael St. Croix (not good, and I’m an OK fan,) and Mitchell Stephens had an injury plagued season (starting with a broken foot, leading to losing a large chunk of development.)

    I didn’t like the trade at the time, and expressed so, but it’s looking better over time.

    We were told Oilers were taking Ek? So this moved up the timetable since he is still in Europe.

  143. godot10 says:

    Water Fire:

    What Lucic brings is top 6 talent and a gigantic distraction for the other team. Pouliot is more skilled but is not feared. Lucic is an animal who either gets points on you and failing that attacks.

    Hall is a far better player than Lucic, but Lucic would be the second best winger on the team at this point and add a very different element even from Kassian and Maroon.

    If Lucic was significantly better than Pouliot, it would show up in the advanced statistics. It doesn’t. Pouliot is much better value for money.

    Pouliot has been solidly consistent in his play for five years. The major irritant is that he takes bad offensive zone penalties on too many occasions. I’ve decided that I can live with that.

    Pouliot may be gone in a trade for a D. That I can live with, but people will miss him, once he is gone.

  144. stevezie says:

    godot10: Pouliot may be gone in a trade for a D. That I can live with, but people will miss him, once he is gone.

    Yep.

    Suspect the wider availability of UFA Pouliot replacements as opposed to Vatanens will be the deciding factor, but he’s a good player on a good deal and ideally we keep him.

  145. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    godot10:
    Pouliot has been solidly consistent in his play for five years.The major irritant is that he takes bad offensive zone penalties on too many occasions.I’ve decided that I can live with that.

    Y’all were warned!!!

    I thought at the time the contract was too rich for a journeyman like him (although I was a major supporter of signing him). But fans turn on him quick. They did in New York, too, because when he takes o-zone penalties, boy does he tend to take a doozy that sticks in people’s minds. Given the way free agent contracts have gone since, the contract is fair. I thought it was a year too long or $1M or so too rich.

    And yeah, when he is healthy he is good. Problem is he never seems to put 82 games together. We will miss him because it sounds like he is gone. Chia didn’t re-sign him in Boston so he doesn’t seem to be a fan. This is puzzling to me, because if he really does believe in advanced stats, then he knows Pouliot is one of his few positive impact players and he needs to hold on to him unless it’s to address a clear need. For example, I could live with a Vatanen for Pouliot trade because RHD is such a dire need.

  146. Магия 10 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: I responded to that comment above already. I clarified that I didn’t mean to suggest Chiarelli assumed he would be top 4 right away, and provided quotes about what he DID say. Did you see that post or just wanted to pile on? ha ha

    Saw the post. Appreciated the quotes. Definitely not piling on. Trying to dig a bit deeper into the intelligent context you provided.

    Was responding to the Reinhart was passed by Davey meme from other quarters.That’s the craziest evidence that Chia was not managing Davey and the Reinhart bet smartly. Davey went Nova, Kudos go Chia going with 8D when others thought he was stupid. Did not need the injured Reinhart. Says nothing about how that bet would have played out if a healthy Reinhart was needed as 6th D.

  147. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Магия 10: Saw the post. Appreciated the quotes. Definitely not piling on. Trying to dig a bit deeper into the intelligent context you provided.

    Was responding to the Reinhart was passed by Davey meme from other quarters.That’s the craziest evidence that Chia was not managing Davey and the Reinhart bet smartly. Davey went Nova, Kudos go Chia going with 8D when others thought he was stupid. Did not need the injured Reinhart. Says nothing about how that bet would have played out if a healthy Reinhart was needed as 6th D.

    Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. RandomPoster had correctly pointed out that my choice of language made it seem like Chia expected Reinhart to be top 4 right away. That wasn’t the case as he said “I would hope so” with respect to his being NHL-ready. He didn’t say “we expect him to be top 4 this year.” But all three (Green, Chia, Lowe) were glowing about GR as an all-around, “5-tool” type D. They clearly did not make that trade expecting him to be AHL for most of the year and bottom pair this coming year. I think that’s clear enough.

  148. Магия 10 says:

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: They clearly did not make that trade expecting him to be AHL for most of the year and bottom pair this coming year. I think that’s clear enough.

    Although they were more bullish on Davey than many here, it is also clear they did not make that trade assuming Davey was a lock or that Reinhart would be injured early. The 33rd was that insurance premium. We’ll see next year if the 16th was a good move. And the guys they would have picked 16 probably was a few years away.

  149. digger50 says:

    I am convinced I would be disappointed watching Oilers without Hall on left wing. Losing Hall sets the team back. Have we not been here before? Trading assets for hope?

    I am very worried thinking back to his pressers when he said “who knows, any one of us could be gone next year” that caught my attention at the time and I wondered if he was hinting at something.

    I highly doubt I would like Subban. Don’t like him as a player right now.

    I have been converted by LT. Sergachev at number 4. take him and be done with it.

  150. AsiaOil says:

    Well the Monday morning QBs are out in full force on GR tonight. A couple of points.

    1 – if Chia has stood pat at the draft then this mob would have been screaming about his inaction all winter when the defense was garbage instead of being all sad face about #16

    2 – aside from Seth Jones who went for a young top line center, which other good RHD was moved last season? (crickets crickets). It is entirely possible that GR was the only asset available for a non-insane price.

    3 – one year ago our NHL LHD depth was Ference, Nikitin, Klef. Most of this joint didn’t think Davidson was worth keeping after TC let alone last June, Sekera was UFA and Nurse had not played a signed NHL game. As other have said, Marincin’s relationship with the OBC was broken and he would never sign here.

    Please return to your scheduled 20-20 hindsight.

  151. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    AsiaOil,

    It’s not Monday morning QB-ing if you said the same thing at the time of the trade. Like GR the player, Chia overpaid for a position that wasn’t as big of a need as the right side. I have said so all along. So has LT.

    Please return to your painting everyone with the same brush.

  152. JimmyV1965 says:

    You folks do realize the Habs will never trade PK straight across for Hall, let alone retain salary.

  153. AsiaOil says:

    I look forward to your exposition of alternate assets that were available and not selected, and your formula for determining GRs future production. As I’ve said multiple times ( and someone else mentioned today) GR cost about 650 expected games and we will know if, and how much of, an “overpay” occurred in a couple of years when we have a better fix on his career. LT likes to say wait 5 years – but not in this case – slow traffic period I guess.

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
    AsiaOil,

    It’s not Monday morning QB-ing if you said the same thing at the time of the trade. Like GR the player, Chia overpaid for a position that wasn’t as big of a need as the right side.I have said so all along. So has LT.

    Please return to your painting everyone with the same brush.

  154. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    AsiaOil,

    LT’s 5 year rule is for the draft. So in Reinhart’s case until next year. But I personally think with D it’s more like 7 years. At 25 you know what they can be. I am willing to give Reinhart until then at least, so 3 more years.

    It is possible to like the player but not like the trade. Your formula for projected games played is just an average across years of the draft. The 2015 draft was speculated to be the best since the legendary 2003 draft. So just applying a blanket average seems inapporpriate. That said, you are absolutely right that we have to wait.

    Here’s the thing, though. I linked to the Staples article from tbat time that has several takes on this matter. I am not a big fan of his work, but he points out left hand D was not a need.

    Left side
    Klefbom
    Nikitin
    Marincin
    Ference
    Nurse
    Simpson
    Oesterle
    Musil
    Davidson

    Yes, that’s a lot of dregs, but there’s tons of quantity. The right side? Schultz, Fayne and crickets.

    So Chia moved Marincin out and brought Gryba in to address handedness. But he kept Nikitin and Ference.

    Davidson outperforned expectations. This could not have reasonably been predicted. Everything else went about as any one of us could predict, no? Nurse wasn’t ready–we said so before the season started. I said so in Penticton. Klefbom was solid but got hurt. Nikitin and Ference were awful.

    As the quotes I provided as ample evidence, the Oilers’ brass were counting on Reinhart to be among their 6 best right away. The point was to trade two very good draft picks for an NHL ready player to help the turn north LAST year. Move up the timetable for McDavid. Chia expected 82 points last year.

    Green went to bat for Reinhart without having seen him play in Bridgeport. It was a curious decision. These guys were WRONG on their assessment of his ability to play last year.

    No where have I said Reinhart is a bad player. Also, no where have I said they should have traded for player X, right-handed instead. They made the decision to use these two assets for Reinhart, a guy we had heard was struggling in the AHL and had been passed by Pulock. It’s risky to give up two good picks in a very deep draft for a guy with that many question marks.

    And people around here are talking about not protecting him in the expansion draft. If that happens, this trade becomes officially horrible.

    I like Reinhart the player. It is possible to not like the price paid–and hindsight doesn’t mean what you think it means if people have been saying that from the time the deal was made. I have said this deal has potential to become a win-win trade. Barzal plays well for the Isles, Reinhart becomes a second pairing D for the Oilers. Even if it is a win-win eventually, it was a risky deal made in an area where there were plenty of players with similar question marks to GR. I would have understood and defended the risk taken if Reinhart were right-handed because that side of the team D was bare.

    The deal was extremely ballsy, and had too high of a price for me to like it, when the target had known question marks, the draft picks were more valuable than in your average year, the left side was filled with depth. You had to be sure he would leapfrog most of that chaff into the top 6. The brass said as much in the quotes I provided. They were wrong. Not a good bet.

    That doesn’t mean there is no time for it to become a win-win. But based on the evidence above it was still a bad bet.

    This is similar to buying Twitter stock because Facebook is doing really well. Both are social media platforms and both are growing, right? And one day, Twitter likely gets bought out for its user base by an apple or google or someone. So you buy it when it falls back to IPO price. And then they aren’t ready to monetize yet so the stock loses 50 percent. Hey, now it’s $15. There’s still time to get better. And maybe it does get taken over eventually for $30 or so, about what you paid for it.

    Meanwhile FB keeps on going up 20% a year. Your money was better off in FB but unfortunately FB wasn’t available. It’s better then to keep your powder dry for the right deal rather than lose with a stock in the hopes of being eventually right, and getting about what you paid for.

    I have maintained all along:
    Reinhart is a decent prospect
    He has some warts and I question his offense (look at Lowe’s and Green’s quotes–they thought of him as a 5-tool player)
    The price paid was very dear in a deep draft
    The reason why this deal makes sense is because they needed to move up the timeline of improvement for McDavid. So rather than draft picks that can help in 3 years they went for the guy who could help right away. They said so themselves.
    Even if Barzal or whomever goes on to be an all-star as long as Reinhart can improve the team sooner and become a top 4 option eventually, the trade is a win-win.
    If Reinhart can’t help right away then it’s not a great trade to start (it can eventuslly look better).
    The left side was stacked with question marks. If you are sure he can jump in and be better than many of your other options, great. Otherwise hold on to your powder and wait for something else on the right side to eventually come up. Just because you draft guys doesn’t mean that option expires. You don’t think a top prospect like Barzal would have value in a trade for a RHD this summer?

    I have gone to the trouble of explaining why, with links and quotes and reasoned argument why LT’s and my positions, which are very similar in this case, is the furthest thing from hindsight trading or Monday morning QB-ing. All of these things were said by us at the time of the trade.

    That’s NOT hindsighting.

    You have come in here and argued that we are because you are clearly misapplying that concept by painting people who have legitimate criticisms of the trade as being critics only with the benefit of hindsight when we are on the record 11 months ago laying out our arguments.

    I don’t have to lay out a games played formula to refute your argument that we are hindsighting, because your assessment is demonstrably false. It was a lazy criticism on your part, and I expect much more nuanced and researched argument from someone I highly respect for his intelligence and independent opinions, even when I disagree with them.

    Cheers.

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