DRAFT POST NO. 8: EVEN IN THE QUIETEST MOMENTS

This may be the last quiet moment we get before draft night, and I would like to spend a few minutes looking at the No. 4 overall selection. Edmonton could trade down, but honestly it feels like a distant bell at this time.

Matt Tkachuk’s boxcars are incredible. In 57 regular-season games, he posted 30-77-107 totals, close to two points-per-game. In 18 playoff games, the numbers were 20-20-40. In 75 games in the OHL this year (regular and playoff), Matt Tkachuk scored 50-97-147. The mind struggles to put this into perspective, but failing a trip to the 1980s were are on our own.

I did some digging via OHL.Prospect.com. I posted them originally here. The results are kind of crazy.

  • Even-strength points-per-game: 1.10
  • Power play point-per-game: 0.737
  • Estimated TOI even strength: 15:39
  • Estimated even-strength points-per-60: 4.24

The one area that Tkachuk does not perform at what might be considered an elite level is Even-Strength Primary Points-per-game. Here are the top 2016 eligible players in the OHL and their numbers.

  1. Alex DeBrincat—0.883
  2. Adam Mascherin—0.854
  3. Taylor Raddysh—0.657
  4. Matt Tkachuk—0.649

Primary points are goals or first assists. DeBrincat is a guy who shows up in good spots all over the place, and I have ranked him No. 15, Mascherin No. 22 and Raddysh No. 24. My list is here.

The reason it is a point of interest? Pierre-Luc Dubois and his number in the same discipline.

  1. Pierre-Luc Dubois .855
  2. Vitalii Abramov .730
  3. Pascal Laberge .589
  4. Brandon Gignac .552
  5. Maxime Fortier .529

Final thing: The WHL. I think it very likely Tyler Benson goes in the first round, but notice the dip at the top end in terms of performance. The WHL is having a down year, and these numbers suggest math and the scouts have correctly identified where the talent lies this year. I would still take Benson in the first round.

  1. Dillon Dube .585
  2. Tyler Benson .567
  3. Dante Hannoun .521
  4. Ty Ronning .507
  5. Noah Gregor .472

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

135 Responses to "DRAFT POST NO. 8: EVEN IN THE QUIETEST MOMENTS"

  1. frjohnk says:

    Do players with primary points suggest the player is more of a driver of offense?
    Do players with more secondary points suggest the player could be more of a passenger?
    Are there any studies of draft eligible prospects over the years that show that players with more primary points in jr will have a better chance of their offense translating to the NHL?

    Could a bunch of secondary points be a sign of a player that does all the grunt work along the boards, in the corners, and is winning those battles?

    I am on #teamdubois compared to #teamtkachuk for such reasons as having a better primary points percentage, better skater, younger, didn’t play on an offensive powerhouse such as London. But as a fan of a perennial bottom feeder that has lacked skilled forwards who can do grunt work, I cant discount the possibility that Tkachuk was doing the things in London ( the grunt work) that put him in a situation where he got a lot of secondary points. If that is the case, many of his secondary points should be viewed as a positive, not a negative. Tkachuk could very well be the better fit for the Oilers. Take my credentials as a blogger on this site and excellent “D” beer leaguer Dman for what its worth.

    I would guess the Oiler scouts are going over the tapes of the potential picks at 4 and I would guess they would make the best choice at 4……

    I hope

  2. Centre of attention says:

    To be honest, I won’t be mad if they take Tkachuk at #4.

    They have made way, WAY worse picks.

    The kid can play.

    I will honestly feel the same as I did when they took Draisaitl while Bennett was still on the board. Curious, yet confident they got a good player.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Centre of attention:
    To be honest, I won’t be mad if they take Tkachuk at #4.

    They have made way, WAY worse picks.

    The kid can play.

    I honestly don’t know how they pass over him. Seriously. I think it is probably stay at No. 4, take the guy among Puljujarvi and Tkachuk is still available. I would take Dubois, but that is based on math. There is NO buzz about Dubois, so if the Oilers are taking him they are doing a terrible job of preparing the fans.

  4. Danny29 says:

    Draft Tkachuk, staple him to 97, and trade him for whoever you want next year after he puts up a thousand points.

  5. speeds says:

    Lowetide: I honestly don’t know how they pass over him. Seriously. I think it is probably stay at No. 4, take the guy among Puljujarvi and Tkachuk is still available. I would take Dubois, but that is based on math. There is NO buzz about Dubois, so if the Oilers are taking him they are doing a terrible job of preparing the fans.

    Did you see this (scenario 4)?

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-world-edmonton-oilers-almost-never-trade-their-first-round-draft-pick

  6. gd says:

    frjohnk:
    Do players with primary points suggest the player is more of a driver of offense?
    Do players with more secondary points suggest the player could be more of a passenger?
    Are there any studies of draft eligible prospects over the years that show that players with more primary points in jr will have a better chance of their offense translating to the NHL?

    Could a bunch of secondary points be a sign of a player that does all the grunt work along the boards, in the corners, and is winning those battles?

    I am on #teamdubois compared to #teamtkachuk for such reasons as having a better primary points percentage, better skater, younger, didn’t play on an offensive powerhouse such as London. But as a fan of a perennial bottom feeder that has lacked skilled forwards who can do grunt work, I cant discount the possibility that Tkachuk was doing the things in London ( the grunt work) that put him in a situation where he got a lot of secondary points.If that is the case, many of his secondary points should be viewed as a positive, not a negative.Tkachuk could very well be the better fit for the Oilers.Take my credentials as a blogger on this site and excellent “D” beer leaguer Dman for what its worth.

    I would guess the Oiler scouts are going over the tapes of the potential picks at 4 and I would guess they would make the best choice at 4……

    I hope

    I think you have summed up my feelings on MT/PLD perfectly. I like Dubois better, but Tkachuk is top 5 in almost every list I have seen (Though McKenzie’s tomorrow will be interesting). He’s getting zoomed a bit by his lines, but he was good enough to be a top 10 scorer in his draft year at the World Junior’s and his line in junior might go down as the greatest line in CHL history. What they did in the OHL playoffs is unprecedented.

    The important questions is do you shoot Right? And if so, would your Beer League team take Eberle in a trade for you? Can they fit his $6Mill under the Beer League Salary Cap?

  7. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: I honestly don’t know how they pass over him. Seriously. I think it is probably stay at No. 4, take the guy among Puljujarvi and Tkachuk is still available. I would take Dubois, but that is based on math. There is NO buzz about Dubois, so if the Oilers are taking him they are doing a terrible job of preparing the fans.

    On that note, I’m more scared of Puljujarvi than I am of Tkachuk.

    It seems to me we are basing a lot of our stock in Puljujarvi on his world juniors. That is a very small sample size and the Finnish team was stacked.

    It’s probably me just being paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of Puljujarvi at all.

  8. achotai says:

    I’m wondering if there’s any studies of how well draft picks from dominant teams do in the NHL? Perhaps there aren’t enough such minor league ‘dominant teams’ to do the study, but it would be interesting, I think.

    The idea being that a team like the Knights are great at getting high quality youngsters, they have an eye for quality, so that’s a plus. But, how does a player who is used to dominating games do, when they start playing for an NHL team that is used to losing a lot? Does the fact that they are used to winning help or hinder them in that situation? I’d be interested what the numbers say.

  9. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Neither Tkachuk or DeBrincat are defenseman but if we could get both of them they would be the new Hall and Eberle. McDavid was already drafted to replace Nuge.

    It’s possible in a couple years all 3 Steve Austin’s are gone and our Top line is Tkachuk-McDavid-DeBrincat. Hopefully with a couple of Top defenseman to play with them…..

  10. Brad says:

    frjohnk:
    Do players with primary points suggest the player is more of a driver of offense?
    Do players with more secondary points suggest the player could be more of a passenger?
    Are there any studies of draft eligible prospects over the years that show that players with more primary points in jr will have a better chance of their offense translating to the NHL?

    Could a bunch of secondary points be a sign of a player that does all the grunt work along the boards, in the corners, and is winning those battles?

    I am on #teamdubois compared to #teamtkachuk for such reasons as having a better primary points percentage, better skater, younger, didn’t play on an offensive powerhouse such as London. But as a fan of a perennial bottom feeder that has lacked skilled forwards who can do grunt work, I cant discount the possibility that Tkachuk was doing the things in London ( the grunt work) that put him in a situation where he got a lot of secondary points.If that is the case, many of his secondary points should be viewed as a positive, not a negative.Tkachuk could very well be the better fit for the Oilers.Take my credentials as a blogger on this site and excellent “D” beer leaguer Dman for what its worth.

    I would guess the Oiler scouts are going over the tapes of the potential picks at 4 and I would guess they would make the best choice at 4……

    I hope

    This is a very important question that must be asked for any stat used to justify a players ranking. I recall in 2011 there was a contingent of people (a lot over at C&B) who rated Couturier far above RNH because his EV scoring was better, and RNH was piling up easy PP points. I forget who it was, but someone over there took a look at the historical correlation between different stats and NHL scoring. And despite the talk that EV points were a better predictor of success, the fact turned out to be that total points was the best predictor of future success.

    We need to be wary of declaring a prospect a driver or a passenger based on something like secondary points, or IPP, without any data to actually prove that assertion first. I like Dubois for his age and speed, but it is extremely hard for me to look at Tkatchuk’s NHLE and not feel confident that he is at least the fourth best forward prospect in the draft.

  11. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Centre of attention: On that note, I’m more scared of Puljujarvi than I am of Tkachuk.

    It seems to me we are basing a lot of our stock in Puljujarvi on his world juniors. That is a very small sample size and the Finnish team was stacked.

    It’s probably me just being paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of Puljujarvi at all.

    I agree with you. Sounds too much like Jesse Ninnimaki to me. Or was it Jani Rita?

  12. Woodguy says:

    frjohnk,

    At the NHL level 2nd assists were shown to be less repeatable than goals or 1sts assists so they are a bit “noisy”

    5v5 pts/60 or /gm have been shown in the past to be the best predictor of NHL success among CHL players.

    Using “primary” points is designed to sharpen the edge of that tool.

  13. Woodguy says:

    Brad: This is a very important question that must be asked for any stat used to justify a players ranking. I recall in 2011 there was a contingent of people (a lot over at C&B) who rated Couturier far above RNH because his EV scoring was better, and RNH was piling up easy PP points. I forget who it was, but someone over there took a look at the historical correlation between different stats and NHL scoring. And despite the talk that EV points were a better predictor of success, the fact turned out to be that total points was the best predictor of future success.

    We need to be wary of declaring a prospect a driver or a passenger based on something like secondary points, or IPP, without any data to actually prove that assertion first. I like Dubois for his age and speed, but it is extremely hard for me to look at Tkatchuk’s NHLE and not feel confident that he is at least the fourth best forward prospect in the draft.

    Do you have a link to the work where total points were better than 5v5?

    I haven’t heard that.

  14. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention: On that note, I’m more scared of Puljujarvi than I am of Tkachuk.

    It seems to me we are basing a lot of our stock in Puljujarvi on his world juniors. That is a very small sample size and the Finnish team was stacked.

    It’s probably me just being paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of Puljujarvi at all.

    it’s my understanding that most of his stock is due to his results as a 17 year old vs. Men in the Finnish Elite leauge this year (or whatever it’s called now)

  15. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Brad: This is a very important question that must be asked for any stat used to justify a players ranking. I recall in 2011 there was a contingent of people (a lot over at C&B) who rated Couturier far above RNH because his EV scoring was better, and RNH was piling up easy PP points. I forget who it was, but someone over there took a look at the historical correlation between different stats and NHL scoring. And despite the talk that EV points were a better predictor of success, the fact turned out to be that total points was the best predictor of future success.

    We need to be wary of declaring a prospect a driver or a passenger based on something like secondary points, or IPP, without any data to actually prove that assertion first. I like Dubois for his age and speed, but it is extremely hard for me to look at Tkatchuk’s NHLE and not feel confident that he is at least the fourth best forward prospect in the draft.

    If what you claim is true and there is a link for it, you can be sure when the Oilers draft Tkachuk that will be the go to rebuttal to refute the critics.

    #don’tbeadumbfukjustdrafttkachuk

  16. Lowetide says:

    Centre of attention: On that note, I’m more scared of Puljujarvi than I am of Tkachuk.

    It seems to me we are basing a lot of our stock in Puljujarvi on his world juniors. That is a very small sample size and the Finnish team was stacked.

    It’s probably me just being paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of Puljujarvi at all.

    People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

  17. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Lowetide: People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

    Only way Tkachuk goes 3rd is if Calgary jumps us for him…..in my opinion of course

  18. godot10 says:

    A whole lot of people are going to be disappointed in a couple of years.

    #TeamDubois #TeamPuljujarvi

  19. dustrock says:

    Lowetide: People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

    Wasn’t there a concern a while back about Puljujarvi not being a great 5v5 scorer?

    The last Finnish player I was mad about was Sasha Barkov. How did his draft season compare?

  20. Woogie63 says:

    Here are the last !6 people taken at #4 in the NHL draft…imo it is a mixed bag

    Mitch Marner
    Sam Bennett
    Seth Jones
    Griffin Reinhart
    Adam Larsson
    Ryan Johansen
    Evader Kane
    Alex Pietrangelo
    Thomas Hickey
    Nicklaus Backstrom
    Benoit Pouliot
    Andrew Ladd
    Nikolai Zherdev
    Joni Pitkanen
    Stephen Weiss
    Rostislav Klesla

  21. StixMalone says:

    Lowetide: People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

    I really think this is how it will play out…..

  22. Jaxon says:

    I’m just going to flag this myself as a crackpot conspiracy theory to get that out of the way.

    Tkachuk really worries me though. #1 worry is his skating. We have the fastest C in the game, why add a winger with skating issues? How much will the speed of the NHL expose his skating weeknesses? not all players can improve that much. And if they do, it may take them a few years. So much for playing with McDavid during his ELC or before Hall’s contract is up.

    #2 is his linemates, both this season and last season. I don’t know this as fact or even rumour but I just feel there is a good chance Matt’s last name has set him up to have the best linemates wherever he goes. I fully expect blowback on this as it is completely unsubstantiated, but Matt has had the best opportunity to rack up points 2 years in a row. Last season he was on a line with Auston Matthews and Jeremy Bracco and this season it is Mitch Marner and Christian Dvorak. Matt’s family is crazy connected in the hockey world. Of his dad’s cousins, Tom Fitzgerald was ASS GM with PIT, now ASS GM with NJD, Scott Fitzgerald is BOS dir amateur scouting, Keith, himself is a STL scout. Jimmy Hayes plays for BOS, Kevin Hayes plays for NYR, Ryan Fitzgerlad is a Bruin draft pick, Casey Fitzgerald goes to BOS college and Brady Tkachuk is going to BOS Univ. Has big Walt made all this happen? Will we see any of Tkachuk’s past coaches with NHL jobs in the not too distant future? That’s what worries me.

    #3 his lack of coming all the way back to defend really worries me. That is what most fans hate about current players (Hall, Eberle, Yakupov). I can’t believe many of those same fans are saying, “Yup, sign me up for this guy.” Does the Tkachuk name and his ‘grititude’ blind us that much?

    #4 his lack of even strength primary points per 60. The fact that Max Jones, his teammate, who plays on the 2nd line in London has almost as high a number and is scouted as being fast with grit and a complete game and wicked shot. If he had the plum position with Marner and Dvorak would we be discussing Max Jones vs Dubois? Dubois’ ES Primary Pts / 60 is 29% higher!!!!

    We can say that it is good that he can play with quality linemates and feed them to get secondary assists but what if things don’t work with him and McDavid? Can he get those points feeding Nugent-Hopkins and Kassian? If Dubois had Marner and Dvorak for linemates how many extra secondary assists would he have? It’s hard to say, but you can be sure there would be more than a handful, which would give him more points per game ES or otherwise than Tkachuk. Or if he played on London’s PP?

    What if McDavid gets injured again? Wouldn’t it be nice to have a player that can drive the play, not just capitalize on good linemates. If he doesn’t play with players that can cover for his lack of defensive game, what then? How certain are you that his defensive game can be fixed?

    Me. I’d take the 200 foot player with speed, grit and more size and more ES primary points / 60 every time. I actually don’t understand why more scouts don’t have him higher. Is it an anti-Quebecois thing? An Anti QMJHL thing? Have they simply not seen him enough this season, that it makes them nervous?

  23. Brad says:

    Woodguy,

    Here it is: http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/6/14/2222329/is-even-strength-scoring-more-important

    Correlation of EV vs total points to NHL success was basically the same (marginally in favour of total points). I know that secondary assists are more noise-prone, but that does not automatically mean that you are sharpening your tool by ignoring them. That is a lot of sample to be throwing away, and I personally am not comfortable with that barring some data to suggest it improves our predictive ability.

  24. Richard S.S. says:

    There is very little leakage at whatever Peter Chiarelli does, even when we know exactly what he must do. We also know that he does everything for a reason, his reasons not ours.

    I fully expect the Pick to be traded because someone will meet Peter’s price. The only way I can see him keeping the Pick is if Puljujarvi falls to him. Picking a right-shot ready-to-play Winger is worth almost anything and everything. McDavid’s RW for the next 15 or more years. As for drafting either Tkachuk or Dubois, the answer is simple. With everything being equal, and it is, Centers can play Wing; Wingers rarely play Center.

    Chiarelli’s price to Calgary likely starts with Dougie Hamilton, but where that goes no one knows. I fully expect Chiarelli’s already got deals in place contingent on the #3 pick on Thursday. I’m also sure the Oilers’ draft starts with pick # 91, as the rest will get traded.

    I totally respect the hard work Lowetide goes through, despite his opinion of the Reinhart trade, to get all this work out so regularly and heartily commend for his effort. Thank You.

  25. JimmyV1965 says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes:
    Neither Tkachuk or DeBrincat are defenseman but if we could get both of them they would be the new Hall and Eberle. McDavid was already drafted to replace Nuge.

    It’s possible in a couple years all 3 Steve Austin’s are gone and our Top line is Tkachuk-McDavid-DeBrincat. Hopefully with a couple of Top defenseman to play with them…..

    Tkachuk may be good but he is not and never will be Taylor Hall. I hope people seriously don’t put those expectations on him.

  26. JimmyV1965 says:

    Lowetide: People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

    I might be wrong about this, but I thought Puljujarvi was ranked #2 to start the year and Laine pulled ahead of him.

  27. Jaxon says:

    speeds: Did you see this (scenario 4)?

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-world-edmonton-oilers-almost-never-trade-their-first-round-draft-pick

    The funny thing is, in trying to draw a distinction between Tkachuk he says about Dubois, ““Dubois plays a better 200-foot game, can play all the forward positions and is a better skater. He’s not going to fight but he’s aggressive. And big.”

    Tkachuk fights this season: 1 time against Lindberg who has 9 total OHL fights.
    Dubois’ fights this season: 2 times. Once against Dumulong who has 33 QMJHL fights and Bower who has 12 QMJHL fights.

  28. Jaxon says:

    JimmyV1965: I might be wrong about this, but I thought Puljujarvi was ranked #2 to start the year and Laine pulled ahead of him.

    ISS still has Puljujarvi at #2 on their June 1st list.

  29. Jaxon says:

    godot10:
    A whole lot of people are going to be disappointed in a couple of years.

    #TeamDubois #TeamPuljujarvi

    I’m with you. I think they could end up being the 2 best in the 2021 Re-draft of 2016. Big, Fast, Complete Game and they can score.

    #TeamDubois, #Team Puljujarvi.

  30. blainer says:

    I can’t remember for sure but didn’t Drai have some skating worries. Now count me down as a PLD fan but Drai’s skating has improved immensely since he was drafted.

    I do think MT skating will also improve.. there is some risk there though. For me I will be happy with either but would not be surprised if JP falls to us.

    The one thing they have to do is send whoever they drat back to junior. The good thing about drafting JP is we can send him to the AHL.

  31. Rondo says:

    blainer,

    Tavares had the same problem skating issues.

  32. Mr DeBakey says:

    Jaxon: The funny thing is, in trying to draw a distinction between Tkachuk he says about Dubois, ““Dubois plays a better 200-foot game, can play all the forward positions and is a better skater. He’s not going to fight but he’s aggressive. And big.”
    Tkachuk fights this season: 1 time against Lindberg who has 9 total OHL fights.
    Dubois’ fights this season: 2 times. Once against Dumulong who has 33 QMJHL fights and Bower who has 12 QMJHL fights.

    Jesus Christ
    That comes from the Cherryistic school of “thought” that ties together Kweebeckers, Yuros and visor-wearers.
    Its with us still.

  33. square_wheels says:

    Woogie63,

    That’s an impressive list of NHL players……it’s telling me that Tkachuk has been scouted tomdeath and is extremely likely to have a top 6 fwd career.

  34. Rondo says:

    The problem with Tkachuk is the line he played on, how much is him. but he had an incredible playoff. Oilers will do their due dilly and hopefully figure out.

    PLD played in a weaker div in the Q and had an inconsistent playoff. He is also the driver on his line. Better skater has a 200 ft game and plays all 3 forward positions .

    Erie’s coach said McDavid would like Tkachuk and said he does not need a fast skater on his line.

  35. Oilspill says:

    Richard S.S.,

    Why leak your moves? He’s a good negotiator. Doesn’t give partner any preparation time. Rushed moves benefit the offering team. It’s just like asking too much. Can’t go up after initial offer.

  36. square_wheels says:

    Rondo,

    Tavares is still not blazing fast. I was actually looking at comps for Tkachuk and John T was the first one I thought of. He’s a strong skater, can see his fundamentals are solid – feet on the ice, wide stance, laces low. The more I watch him skate in highlight video’s the less concerned I am. He just might make the perfect long term McDavid winger.

    The league is full of average skaters (it’s why it’s called an Average) that use their upper body strength and brain to excel, so Tkachuk has tones of comp to be fine in the league.

    If there is a ranking of differentiator’s though, skating is at the top for me. Mackenzie’s list could be the final nail in the #4 position and if we take Keith’s kid I’d be fine.

  37. blainer says:

    Rondo:
    The problem with Tkachuk is the line he played on, how much is him.but he had an incredible playoff. Oilers will do their due dilly and hopefully figure out.

    PLD played in a weaker div in the Q and had an inconsistent playoff. He is also the driver on his line.Better skaterhas a 200 ft game and plays all 3 forward positions .

    Erie’s coach said McDavid would like Tkachukand said he does not need a fast skater on his line.

    I think everybody here will be quite happy if MT turned out to be the next J.Tavares ..

    MT”s year if you include playoff’s

    77 GP – 50 Goals 97 assists 147 total points.

    Those are good numbers period. I will not be disappointed at all if they select MT.

  38. stush18 says:

    blainer: I think everybody here will be quite happy if MT turned out to be the next JT..

    MT”s year if you include playoff’s

    77 GP –50 Goals97 assists 147 total points.

    Those are good numbers period. I will not be disappointed at all if they select MT.

    Yup too much freaking out about this player.

    Whoever we draft should not be inserted into next years lineup. Period. Let them work in there weaknesses in junior. Let tkatchuk run that London team by himself.

  39. blainer says:

    stush18: Yup too much freaking out about this player.

    Whoever we draft should not be inserted into next years lineup. Period. Let them work in there weaknesses in junior. Let tkatchuk run that London team by himself.

    THIS !!

  40. square_wheels says:

    blainer,

    BUT WHAT IF HE HAS TO REPLACE POU OR HALL ?

    WHY ARE WE YELLING ? 😎

  41. jfry says:

    not sure if this was discussed in the last thread, but how’s this for a great father’s day gift to canada?!!

    strombo out and ron maclean back in on hockey night in canada!
    https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/06/19/ron-maclean-to-replace-strombo-on-hockey-night-in-canada-feschuk.html

  42. frjohnk says:

    blainer: MT”s year if you include playoff’s
    77 GP – 50 Goals 97 assists 147 total points.

    Yeah, but how many of those goals were secondary goals? *runs*

  43. DRFNsuperstar says:

    Lowetide: I honestly don’t know how they pass over him. Seriously. I think it is probably stay at No. 4, take the guy among Puljujarvi and Tkachuk is still available. I would take Dubois, but that is based on math. There is NO buzz about Dubois, so if the Oilers are taking him they are doing a terrible job of preparing the fans.

    The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL. Even strength primary points favour Dubois but NHLEs favour Tkachuk.

  44. jfry says:

    Brad,

    nice find. boy do i miss the days when CnB was a powerhouse and almost every article was a must read. reynolds and zona did some great work over there.

  45. Bad Seed says:

    DRFNsuperstar: The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL. Even strength primary points favour Dubois but NHLEs favour Tkachuk.

    Great point

  46. Jaxon says:

    Does anyone else feel like most scouting service rankings are more trying to predict the draft rather than choose the best player in 5 years from now? I feel like only Mark Edwards at Hockey Prospect, Anthony Mauro at Draft Buzz, Corey Pronman and Craig Button are actually trying to predict best / most valuable player 5 years down the road.

  47. speeds says:

    DRFNsuperstar: The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL. Even strength primary points favour Dubois but NHLEs favour Tkachuk.

    Could argue that no one in the CHL had better linemates though, regardless of league.

  48. kinger_OIL says:

    – I see Tkachuk as a junoir version of Jari Kurri

    – Jarri Kurri was an awesome winger, on an awesome line on an awesome team. Jari was pretty elite in SM-liiga. Then he got to play with Gretz.

    – If you put Tkachuk with McDavid: I have no doubt he too could be awesome.

    – Kurri though, not so much without Gretz. My bias is that Tkachuk without awesome line on an awesome team, is Kurri circa L.A./Rangers/Ducks/Avalanche

    – So sure go all in Tkachuk, and play him with McDavid: if not, pick another player IMO.

    – If you draft Tkachuk, other top-6 LW’s on this team become expendible…

    * it’s amazing that both Matthews and Tkachuk were born in Arizona: such a hockey hot bed…

  49. frjohnk says:

    speeds: Could argue that no one in the CHL had better linemates though, regardless of league.

    DRFNsuperstar: The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL. Even strength primary points favour Dubois but NHLEs favour Tkachuk.

    Both of these statements are true.

    Tkachuk had the best quality of linemates, but the OHL is noted for being the best junior league in the world.

    The NHLE for the OHL is 0.32.
    The NHLE for the Q is 0.26 ( The BCHL is 0.13, so BCHL is nowhere near the Q)

  50. Younger Oil says:

    This might be a dumb question, but people questioning Puljujarvi got me thinking…

    How much has he played on a NA sized rink? How much do we think that will effect him?

  51. Younger Oil says:

    Also, I know that this will never happen, but I keep thinking that there is a 3-Way trade somewhere in the draft, and was wondering what people think:

    Toronto:

    Gives: 1st OV
    Gets: 4th OV, Dvorak, ???

    Arizona:

    Gives: 7th OV, Dvorak, ???
    Gets: 1st OV

    Edmonton:

    Gives: 4th OV, ???
    Gets: 7th OV, ???

    Arizona gets the best player to ever come out of the state.

    Toronto gets the entire best line in junior hockey.

    Edmonton gets Sergachev and a sweetener.

    What do people think/want for the question marks?

  52. Mr DeBakey says:

    DRFNsuperstar: The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL.

    Bullshit
    The BCHL is nowhere near the Q.
    Not close.

  53. Jaxon says:

    DRFNsuperstar: The difference is the quality of competition, OHL is elite while the Q is probably closer to BCHL quality than OHL. Even strength primary points favour Dubois but NHLEs favour Tkachuk.

    That doesn’t even qualify as hyperbole. That’s just false. Sorry. Some Statisticians have come to the conclusion that QMJHL players maintain 28% of their pts while OHL players maintain 30%. But others have convincingly refuted that and rate the Q as a 30% league as well. Even at 28% to 30% that is a fairly minor difference.

    The BCHL’s conversion of points retained is 13% to 14% depending on whose converter you use. That is a drastic difference.

    Also, Mario Lemieux, Sidney Crosby, Guy Lafleur, Pat Lafontaine, Luc Robitaille, Brad Richards, Pierre Turgeon, Dale Hawerchuk, Denis Savard, Jeremy Roenick, Daniel Briere, Claude Lemieux, Mike Bossy, Radim Vrbata, Vincent Lacavalier, Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Nikita Kucherov, Claude Giroux, Jakub Voracek, Stephane Richer, Michel Goulet, Jason Pomminville, Ales Hemsky, Pascal Dupuis, Nathan MacKinnon, Sean Couturier, Rick Vaive, Vincent Damphousse, Andrej Palat, Guy Carbonneau, Guy Chouinard, Martin Lapointe, Alexander Radulov, Mike Ribiero, Real Cloutier, Jimmy Carson, Derrick Brassard, Matthew Lombardi, Nikolaj Ehlers, Martin Gelinas, Michael Ryder and Steve Kasper.

    BCHL grads: Brett Hull, Jamie Benn, Kyle Turris and Keith Seabrook and a bunch of lesser knowns and 4th liners. Oh, and Justin Schultz.

  54. Oilspill says:

    So wheatnoil. I like your stats. I’f a D man makes a pass to his own player who then loses it or can’t control it then how is that scored?
    If a dman makes a pass to his D partner who then coughs up the puck. How is that scored for the original dman who made the first pass.

  55. Water Fire says:

    Centre of attention: On that note, I’m more scared of Puljujarvi than I am of Tkachuk.

    It seems to me we are basing a lot of our stock in Puljujarvi on his world juniors. That is a very small sample size and the Finnish team was stacked.

    It’s probably me just being paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of Puljujarvi at all.

    Pulji has wheels, a great shot, head for the game, plays 200 feet, done this against men.

    Tkachuk is a great player, not a great skater, a scout report here or at ON referred to how great he’d be PP, nobody can move him. Except that’s teenagers, and the game is won and lost at evens.

    The Finns are the cream of the crop for wingers, and everyone has a clear distinction 1-3 from the next tier. I think Dubois is the sleeper.

  56. Магия 10 says:

    Younger Oil: What do people think/want for the question marks?

    I’d say put all of the question marks on Toronto gives 1st. 0.00000000000000000000000 chance

  57. Skeeziks says:

    Lowetide,

    One of my biggest concerns is that Puljujarvi will be drafted by the Oilers and turn out just like Magnus Paajarvi. I have some reservations about just how much of a high potential prospect Puljujarvi really is.

  58. DRFNsuperstar says:

    Mr DeBakey: Bullshit
    The BCHL is nowhere near the Q.
    Not close.

    Haha obviously I was exaggerating FRJOHNK listed NHLEs above. I was making a point because everyone’s argument is EVP/60, but that is precisely why NHLEs exist to correct for league strength. All the other rhetoric of “more powerful skater” “better two way game” is just that. The quality of linemates argument is a solid one but the TOI argument against Dubois could also be a strong one. Watching London in playoffs showed he wasn’t getting fed ice time and he was the catalyst on the powerplay.

  59. Skeeziks says:

    Skeeziks:
    Lowetide,

    One of my biggest concerns is that Puljujarvi will be drafted by the Oilers and turn out just like Magnus Paajarvi. I have some reservations about just how much of a high potential prospect Puljujarvi really is.

    People need to remember this post when Tkachuk goes No. 3 and Edmonton drafts Puljujarvi.

  60. blainer says:

    square_wheels:
    blainer,

    BUT WHAT IF HE HAS TO REPLACE POU OR HALL ?

    WHY ARE WE YELLING ?

    Oh Oh ! Actually I expect Pou may be gone with the expansion draft. Jeebus I really hope they don’t plan on MT being on the team this year .. that is the OBC way of doing things.. We did just hire new management … errrrr did we..

    I will give the new gang credit in that they did send Drai and Nurse down after training camp but those damned injuries.. Although I do think Drai did show he was ready..

  61. jfry says:

    re tkachuk.

    is there a decent resource that we can use to judge his earlier years (where he didn’t play on the best line in junior hockey)? i can’t find one, so here’s what i put together.

    when you look at his stat lines since 2012, he’s put up what i would call very strong numbers in multiple leagues and internationally. with the one exception possibly being his performance in 13/14 where he was significantly under 1 PPG in two leagues. the only time he’s ever been under 1 ppg in any league/tournament.

    last year he put up 96 points for the US national U18 team in his draft -1 year. that would have been second in the league this year, following only clayton keller who is in his draft year (read, older). the USDP 18 league has an average age of 17.63, so tkachuk would have been a little younger than average last year, while keller is above average this year.

    for usdp18, tkachuk finishes in the top five all time for the league in Points per Season, Goals per Season, and Assists per Season. He places 30th all time in PPG in that league, again as a youngish player.

    in the U20 WJC this year, he put up 11 points in 7 games, less than a month after he turned 18. that’s pretty impressive for a tourney typically dominated by kids a year or two older.

    to be honest, i’m not that concerned about his offensive production because he’s shown it consistently in his career. everywhere.

    i’m honestly more concerned about puljujarvi ever putting up points in the NHL. i feel like his size/athleticism is clouding our reality, because his numbers just aren’t that wowing for a number 3 overall. and with dubois, i’m really curious is his half court offensive style will translate to the NHL — i’m not sure it’ll play against larger more well positioned men playing defense. i’d take MT third and feel confident about what i’m getting.

    sources for this:
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=233030
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=428
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_all-time_stats.php?league=USDP&alltime=PPG

    my .02

  62. Woodguy says:

    Brad,

    That is a lot of sample to be throwing away, and I personally am not comfortable with that barring some data to suggest it improves our predictive ability.

    I agree that making the sample smaller is not something to do lightly.

    Primary points has shown to be more predictive of future points than total points.

    In this case, with NHL players, getting rid of some data improves the prediction.

    I can’t say for sure it works on the CHL level, I haven’t seen that work done, but intuitively it should

  63. Ice Sage says:

    Congrats to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

    When you have the best in the game, you always have a chance.

    The broadcast mentioned how long the drought for Cleveland has been, posted a graphic of the Browns, Cavs and Indians woes for several generations. No Barons? *adjusts collar, bugs eyes* dis hockey I tell ya… no respect!

  64. kinger_OIL says:

    Progress!:

    According to Dave Feschuk of The Star, George Stroumboulopoulos is out as host of Hockey Night in Canada.

    He will be replaced by the man he unseated just two seasons ago – Ron MacLean.

    – I love this part: “”Insiders say executives suggested to Stroumboulopoulos that he tweak his appearance to be less jarring to some mainstream eyes. A trip to the tailor for a more conventional wardrobe was on the list of polite requests … Sources say he didn’t appear to see the need for a makeover.””

    – No more tight clown suits!

    – And I really liked Strombo back in the day on his eponymous show: untill he got too swarmy

  65. stush18 says:

    jfry,

    Good work. Good points.

    Everyone is freaking out about his skating, when maroon scored well with him.

    Small sample size, shooting percentages, etc.

  66. blainer says:

    jfry:
    re tkachuk.

    is there a decent resource that we can use to judge his earlier years (where he didn’t play on the best line in junior hockey)? i can’t find one, so here’s what i put together.

    when you look at his stat lines since 2012, he’s put up what i would call very strong numbers in multiple leagues and internationally. with the one exception possibly being his performance in 13/14where he was significantly under 1 PPG in two leagues. the only time he’s ever been under 1 ppg in any league/tournament.

    last year he put up 96 points for the US national U18 team in his draft -1 year. that would have been second in the league this year, following only clayton keller who is in his draft year (read, older). the USDP 18 league has an average age of 17.63, so tkachuk would have been a little younger than average last year, while keller is above average this year.

    for usdp18, tkachuk finishes in the top five all time for the league in Points per Season, Goals per Season, and Assists per Season. He places 30th all time in PPG in that league, again as a youngish player.

    in the U20 WJC this year, he put up 11 points in 7 games, less than a month after he turned 18. that’s pretty impressive for a tourney typically dominated by kids a year or two older.

    to be honest, i’m not that concerned about his offensive production because he’s shown it consistently in his career. everywhere.

    i’m honestly more concerned about puljujarvi ever putting up points in the NHL. i feel like his size/athleticism is clouding our reality, because his numbers just aren’t that wowing for a number 3 overall. and with dubois, i’m really curious is his half court offensive style will translate to the NHL — i’m not sure it’ll play against larger more well positioned men playing defense. i’d take MT third and feel confident about what i’m getting.

    sources for this:
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=233030
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=428
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_all-time_stats.php?league=USDP&alltime=PPG

    my .02

    This is a great post ..thanks..

    These stats are important to better understand what we are getting with MT. I agree that after more research is coming in that MT could really go as high as third. Love PLD and JP as well and would really be happy with any of those picks.

    The closer we get to the draft the more valuable this pick is becoming. It will take quite the offer to get this pick from the oilers.

  67. square_wheels says:

    GAME OF THRONES ‘!!!!!! HOLY SHIT HBO

  68. Wonder Llama says:

    jfry:
    Brad,

    nice find. boy do i miss the days when CnB was a powerhouse and almost every article was a must read. reynolds and zona did some great work over there.

    I believe the relentless suckitude of the Oilers has emotionally broken more than one CnB contributor.

    Which makes LT’s perseverance all the more impressive.

    I look forward to CnB’s resurgence following that of our team.

  69. stush18 says:

    square_wheels:
    GAME OF THRONES ‘!!!!!! HOLY SHIT HBO

    Don’t you damn ruin anything!

  70. square_wheels says:

    kinger_OIL,

    Good for Strombo, he’s a grown ass man he can dress however the fuck he wants. The fact he wasn’t a “hockey guy” was why he was both a good bet (surely it was a Dellow type producer 10 years ahead of his/her time) and doomed to fail because CBC just can’t get past selling us Vignette’s about beavers, loons and confederation.

    HNIC’s issue is the supporting staff, save Friedman and the complete inability to sell the game beyond traditionalists BUT instead to modern stat aficionado’s that are learning to see the game beyond the Andy Griffith nostalgia and pseudo-nationalism the majority of thinking folks want less of.

    End rant.

    And for the record I thought his suits were fucking sharp.

  71. Brad says:

    Woodguy:
    Brad,

    That is a lot of sample to be throwing away, and I personally am not comfortable with that barring some data to suggest it improves our predictive ability.

    I agree that making the sample smaller is not something to do lightly.

    Primary points has shown to be more predictive of future points than total points.

    In this case, with NHL players, getting rid of some data improves the prediction.

    I can’t say for sure it works on the CHL level, I haven’t seen that work done, but intuitively it should

    Would you mind sharing a link to that study? I seem to recall reading about secondary assists being less repeatable than primary points, but I do not remember coming across anything that showed primary points to be of greater predictive power than total points.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with the primary points assertion, as it seems relatively reasonable. I do however question the weight that is being placed upon it by some (not referring to anyone here in particular, btw), and I haven’t directly seen any study to suggest how much if any it deserves.

  72. Stelio Kontos says:

    I just really don’t care this year. First year I’ve ever advocated trading down or out. Dubois basically plays in the BCHL. Tkachuk is being zoomed. The only GM who has a Finnish bias is being relied on to pass on a finn. The dmen are all a reach, and NHL ready in the next two years. I think there are a few gems in the bottom of the first round (Benson, Mighty Mouse), but most of the guys seem pretty meh. Both Dubois and Tkachuk remind me of Nick Ritchie, which isn’t bad, but it is just meh.

  73. square_wheels says:

    stush18,

    No spoilers but HOLY FUCKING SHIT they keep delivering next level film making. Film making broken into 10 parts/year that we call TV.

  74. Jaxon says:

    jfry:
    re tkachuk.

    is there a decent resource that we can use to judge his earlier years (where he didn’t play on the best line in junior hockey)? i can’t find one, so here’s what i put together.

    when you look at his stat lines since 2012, he’s put up what i would call very strong numbers in multiple leagues and internationally. with the one exception possibly being his performance in 13/14where he was significantly under 1 PPG in two leagues. the only time he’s ever been under 1 ppg in any league/tournament.

    last year he put up 96 points for the US national U18 team in his draft -1 year. that would have been second in the league this year, following only clayton keller who is in his draft year (read, older). the USDP 18 league has an average age of 17.63, so tkachuk would have been a little younger than average last year, while keller is above average this year.

    for usdp18, tkachuk finishes in the top five all time for the league in Points per Season, Goals per Season, and Assists per Season. He places 30th all time in PPG in that league, again as a youngish player.

    in the U20 WJC this year, he put up 11 points in 7 games, less than a month after he turned 18. that’s pretty impressive for a tourney typically dominated by kids a year or two older.

    to be honest, i’m not that concerned about his offensive production because he’s shown it consistently in his career. everywhere.

    i’m honestly more concerned about puljujarvi ever putting up points in the NHL. i feel like his size/athleticism is clouding our reality, because his numbers just aren’t that wowing for a number 3 overall. and with dubois, i’m really curious is his half court offensive style will translate to the NHL — i’m not sure it’ll play against larger more well positioned men playing defense. i’d take MT third and feel confident about what i’m getting.

    sources for this:
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=233030
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=428
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_all-time_stats.php?league=USDP&alltime=PPG

    my .02

    Nice find. My issue with last season’s numbers (2014-2015, draft-1) is that there is a good chance his stats were pumped up by linemates again. His linemates in the USDP National program and on the National team were this year’s #1 Auston Matthews and last year’s Jeremy Bracco. Who you will see are both higher than him at Matthews 5th at 1.596 pts/gp and Bracco 9th at 1.412 pts/gp. Tkachuk was 20th with great numbers at 1.093 pts/gp but he was 39 pts behind his next closest linemate. That’s a big deal. I feel like he’s hit the perfect storm of being pumped up by linemates and dad’s name for 2 straight seasons and we’re all being grifted by his dad, Big Walt.

  75. Магия 10 says:

    blainer: more research is coming in that MT could really go as high as third

    Where he can go is a market question. The Bobfather weighs in tomorrow with his final rankings. 10 of 10 had the same 3 players above 4th. Changes in ranks or even the splits would be interesting.

  76. AsiaOil says:

    Only time I saw Tkuchuk and PLD together was the prospects game – PLD was big, fast and dominant while Tkachuk was kind of meh. Single sample obviously but PLD looks to be one hell of a player. Can’t see taking an average skating LW as sensible – but I sure can see pumping the living hell out of TK while saying nothing about PDL. A trade down is probably the plan but no further than #7 if we want to get the best dman. Picks 1/2 seem pretty straight forward but all hell could break loose starting with Columbus. I’d just take PLD and call it good on Friday unless Columbus does something unexpected or VAN/CGY/ARZ offers us a RHD to move down.

    For all the time spent on Reinhart – let’s look at the other side of the trade. I don’t like comparing specific players who were not selected by the team who traded the picks – but the whole narrative about the GR trade is what we gave up. So OK. What are the 2015 #16 and #33 now worth?

    Barzal 58 27-61-88 (NHLE = 26 points) hard to say but I guess he might get you a similar pick in this draft – tracking like a smaller, offensive 2nd line center
    Stephens – 39 20-18-38 (NHLE = 11 points) very unlikely he gets you #33 on Friday – tracking like a bottom 6 replacement level forward.

    No home runs as far as I can see and I’m not at all sure Barzal would get you #16 on Friday. He’s clearly better than the BOS picks right ahead but a bunch of guys behind him have developed nicely (Connor, White, Konecny, Samsanov, Werenski). So far – as is usual and expected – the value of the picks we gave up has fallen. If we had made these picks would we be able to trade them this week for young ready to play dman? Ignoring the needs of the Islanders – would you trade these two guys for GR today? I don’t have any answers here as it’s still very early but it’s interesting to think about the other side of the deal instead of just assuming best case scenarios for what we gave up. For the life of me I can’t remember who coined the phrase – but we acquired GR while he is in the “valley of doubt”. This is a risky time but the only period where young dmen with pedigree are available. If he emerges as a top 4 dman then it was a good deal at a great price. If he doesn’t we likely gave up a 2nd line center and not much else.

  77. Snowman says:

    You know I had no problem with Strombo except when he spoke about hockey, he spoke the same way about it that I speak about net present value calculations. I’ve learned about it, spent some time talking about with people who know about it, I appreciate its usefulness but honestly if it wasn’t my job I’d probably never talk about it again.

    That is how Strombo talks about hockey. That is why he wasn’t successful. Not his suits. Not his earrings or beard. His lack of genuine passion for it or his inability to translate that passion to compelling television.

  78. Stelio Kontos says:

    Snowman:
    You know I had no problem with Strombo except when he spoke about hockey, he spoke the same way about it that I speak about net present value calculations. I’ve learned about it, spent some time talking about with people who know about it, I appreciate its usefulness but honestly if it wasn’t my job I’d probably never talk about it again.

    That is how Strombo talks about hockey. That is why he wasn’t successful. Not his suits. Not his earrings or beard. His lack of genuine passion for it or his inability to translate that passion to compelling television.

    Strombo was bad, but at least he was pushing the conversation in a neutral direction most of the time. That is a compliment, since outside of Friedman, the conversation goes backwards. “Moar Biggar”, grinders. Trying hard.

  79. square_wheels says:

    Snowman,

    His job should have been host but they were selling us a narrative and it’s why HNIC is doomed.

    By 2020 I hope to never have to watch or listen to another game from these ass-hats at Rogers.

    Just like the NFL we’ll have to endure 9 hours of pre-game diarrhea. The Fox News of pro-sports is upon us.

    Their stupid fucking laser pucks were just the start. (Extra points for anyone that knows this reference)

  80. Stelio Kontos says:

    Also what is all this Ryan Strome talk? He reeks to me of SFG (Sam Gagner).

  81. Магия 10 says:

    AsiaOil: I don’t have any answers here as it’s still very early but it’s interesting to think about the other side of the deal instead of just assuming best case scenarios for what we gave up. For the life of me I can’t remember who coined the phrase – but we acquired GR while he is in the “valley of doubt”. This is a risky time but the only period where young dmen with pedigree are available. If he emerges as a top 4 dman then it was a good deal at a great price. If he doesn’t we likely gave up a 2nd line center and not much else.

    Agree. I never liked the Barzal comparison because they weren’t picking Barzal. Unless we’ll be judging Chia vs. Snow down the road.

  82. Wonder Llama says:

    square_wheels,

    I remember the laser pucks. Hilarious.

    I also remember MacLean as a fresh-faced weather guy on Red Deer TV (CKRD? – it’s been awhile).

    That and all his years as the meek foil to Cherry make it hard for me to imagine him as host. But I’ve seen almost nothing of him since I moved to the States in 2000 – I’m curious to see how he does.

  83. Магия 10 says:

    square_wheels: By 2020 I hope to never have to watch or listen to another game from these ass-hats at Rogers

    Once you decide the key to making the game more accessible is for ex-players to share their inside view as much as possible your broadcast is about hockey as it used to be. Can’t they find ex players that are curious enough to learn what’s happening to the game?

  84. square_wheels says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    Just you wait. Soon enough if you want your Rogers subscription to puke out a game on your Telus/Shaw/Rogers cable box you will have to watch 1hour specials of where a player grew up in some backwoods town and clawed his way up to the NHL doc’s, followed by the unlocking of your special game access code.

    As soon as someone will provide us intelligent hockey analysis, with the content separate from the canned narrative…….

    Ahem. Mr Mitchell I’m offering you a subscription for said service.

  85. square_wheels says:

    Магия 10,

    I think they can. Well, let’s hope they can and advocate for it with our $$$.

    Edit – replace They with someone

  86. DRFNsuperstar says:

    Honestly they need to take a page out of the Punjabi Feed’s book. Have analysts who get excited about hockey and non-homer announcers. If I see one more pre-game What Does Team A Have to do to Win that says “play tight defence, and go to the net” I’m going to flip to the Punjabi Feed anyway. The best hockey night in Canada this year was when Subban hosted. They rarely break stories anymore because everybody is tweeting them out before these guys hit the air, they suck at analyzing replays and are never positive. My dream panel would be:

    -Friedman
    -Ferraro
    -Hitchcock
    -Cassie Campbell

  87. stush18 says:

    square_wheels:
    stush18,

    No spoilers but HOLY FUCKING SHIT they keep delivering next level film making. Film making broken into 10 parts/year that we call TV.

    My roommates have never watched before so we’re catching up together. So I haven’t seen any of these episodes from this season. But I have a gust of what’s going on

  88. square_wheels says:

    Wonder Llama,

    Playing Gilligan to Cherry’s Skipper. Stuck in the past. Selling us the past.

    Like in business, if you’re always looking in the mirror to see where you’re going…….

    The laser pucks reference was to a song but yea, those things were as goofy as Ancient Aliens.

  89. rickithebear says:

    frjohnk:
    Do players with primary points suggest the player is more of a driver of offense?
    Do players with more secondary points suggest the player could be more of a passenger?
    Are there any studies of draft eligible prospects over the years that show that players with more primary points in jr will have a better chance of their offense translating to the NHL?

    Could a bunch of secondary points be a sign of a player that does all the grunt work along the boards, in the corners, and is winning those battles?

    I am on #teamdubois compared to #teamtkachuk for such reasons as having a better primary points percentage, better skater, younger, didn’t play on an offensive powerhouse such as London. But as a fan of a perennial bottom feeder that has lacked skilled forwards who can do grunt work, I cant discount the possibility that Tkachuk was doing the things in London ( the grunt work) that put him in a situation where he got a lot of secondary points.If that is the case, many of his secondary points should be viewed as a positive, not a negative.Tkachuk could very well be the better fit for the Oilers.Take my credentials as a blogger on this site and excellent “D” beer leaguer Dman for what its worth.

    I would guess the Oiler scouts are going over the tapes of the potential picks at 4 and I would guess they would make the best choice at 4……

    I hope

    top 4 EVP NHLE translated for Age; league since 0% draft:

    Crosby 84
    Mcdcvid 77
    Dubois 66
    70 as a ccenter
    Stamkos 60

    top 4 Primary EVP NHLE translated for age and League.
    Crosby
    Mcdcvid
    Dubois
    Stamkos

    6’2.25″ 205 lb center
    6.5 months younger than Tkachuk
    Best junior numbers not named Crosby or Mcdavid.
    Faster skater than Tkachuk.
    Better Finnish rate.
    Better passer.
    Better 2 way game.
    More physical.

    I will be pissed if we take a complementary player over the 3rd best driver of play since 06 draft.

    If we have
    xxx-Drai-xxx
    xxx-Mcdavid-xxx
    xxx-Dubois-XXX
    for the next 9 years
    And veteran support from
    Hall; RNH; Eberle for 1-3 years

    Tkachuk is not a player veterans can bump their numbers with in end of career.

  90. square_wheels says:

    stush18,

    Ahead of the books now……it’s so friggin good.

  91. TeeVee says:

    jfry:
    not sure if this was discussed in the last thread, but how’s this for a great father’s day gift to canada?!!

    strombo out and ron maclean back in on hockey night in canada!
    https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/06/19/ron-maclean-to-replace-strombo-on-hockey-night-in-canada-feschuk.html

    I’m so fuckin happy. This is the best Father’s Day present ever!

  92. Магия 10 says:

    square_wheels:
    Магия 10,

    I think they can. Well, let’s hope they can and advocate for it with our $$$.

    Hockey has always had players and coaches that are students of the game. Granted they are more likely than the less curious to be available but if they asked around there have to be some that would love to be paid to watch a zillion game and meet staff and players in NHL cities on and off camera and tell us what they are seeing. Teams are reluctant to share their current thinking, but the folks paying the bills have unique access to dig into the changes in the game.

  93. rickithebear says:

    DRFNsuperstar:
    Honestly they need to take a page out of the Punjabi Feed’s book. Have analysts who get excited about hockey and non-homer announcers. If I see one more pre-game What Does Team A Have to do to Win that says “play tight defence, and go to the net” I’m going to flip to the Punjabi Feed anyway. The best hockey night in Canada this year was when Subban hosted. They rarely break stories anymore because everybody is tweeting them out before these guys hit the air, they suck at analyzing replays and are never positive. My dream panel would be:

    -Friedman
    -Ferraro
    -Hitchcock
    -Cassie Campbell

    Cassie Campbell -PASCAL

  94. square_wheels says:

    DRFNsuperstar,

    See now you’re onto something. The Punjabi’s would have found their voice through YouTube or Periscope etc, because of how much they love the game and want to see it in the present and project it forward onto a new generation of fans.

    Sports media is so entrenched in the past that when someone figures out how to broadcast a game in a way like game days on this blog……..now we’re jumping sharks my friends.

  95. Stelio Kontos says:

    Wonder Llama:
    square_wheels,

    I remember the laser pucks. Hilarious.

    I also remember MacLean as a fresh-faced weather guy on Red Deer TV (CKRD? – it’s been awhile).

    That and all his years as the meek foil to Cherry make it hard for me to imagine him as host. But I’ve seen almost nothing of him since I moved to the States in 2000 – I’m curious to see how he does.

    Laser pucks make it sound cooler than it was. I might actually be thoroughly entertained by laser effects. I saw a soccer game on youtube like that. See if I can find it.

    Edit: this wasn’t the one, but you get the idea.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OlHDOar-XA
    Could watch this for hours. Maybe they do it like that old NHL game, where you score a few goals and light on fire.

  96. square_wheels says:

    Магия 10,

    This is a conversation that truly needs to turn itself into something beyond the words on this blog. There is so much intelligence in the fan base of not only this team but of nearly all of them.

    My dream is that someday I’m able to stream an honest conversation like game days here, independent of team required avoidance of taboo subjects.

    It’s 2016 – a new way to watch sports needs to appear.

  97. square_wheels says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    Holy shit that was good. Of course it was my beloved Red Devils kicking heads off storm troopers.

    “Your stupid fucking lazer pucks were just the start” is a line from Propagandhi’s A Speculative Fiction

  98. Ice Sage says:

    square_wheels:
    stush18,

    No spoilers but HOLY FUCKING SHIT they keep delivering next level film making. Film making broken into 10 parts/year that we call TV.

    Great, satisfying episode after 3 mediocre ones that set the stage. Hat tip to ‘Return of the King’ needed but I agree that’s some intense and beautiful TV. I’m not sold on this season being ‘better’ now that the storyline is ahead of the published books… it actually has become more formulaic / linear but some plot lines needed tidying and overlapping so here we are.

  99. Stelio Kontos says:

    Just curious. Am I paying to broadcast in Punjabi? Better not be.

  100. Магия 10 says:

    “undoubtedly asked about Taylor Hall but Fowler for his old junior teammate (Windsor) isn’t enough for one of the league’s top five LW’s unless the Oilers also got somebody like Rickard Rakell or Jakob Silfverberg or big former first-round draft winger Nick Ritchie in a package.”

    His source is “undoubtedly asked.”
    No wonder he ends up in crazy 3 for 1 Lego land.

  101. Stelio Kontos says:

    rickithebear: Cassie Campbell -PASCAL

    I don’t know what this means.

  102. square_wheels says:

    Ice Sage,

    I’ve picked up another fantasy series waiting for that old curmudgeon to publish the last book(s). Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind, very very good.

  103. square_wheels says:

    square_wheels:
    Магия 10,

    I think they can. Well, let’s hope they can and advocate for it with our $$$.

    Edit – replace They with someone

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/youcommentate-aims-to-democratize-sports-commentary-and-maybe-the-news/

    check this out

  104. Mr DeBakey says:

    kinger_OIL: I love this part: “”Insiders say executives suggested to Stroumboulopoulos that he tweak his appearance to be less jarring to some mainstream eyes. A trip to the tailor for a more conventional wardrobe was on the list of polite requests … Sources say he didn’t appear to see the need for a makeover.””

    Cherry was just re-upped.
    Strombo shudda given his tailor a call

  105. Evilas says:

    I think everybody here will be quite happy if MT turned out to be the next J.Tavares ..
    MT”s year if you include playoff’s
    77 GP – 50 Goals 97 assists 147 total points.
    Those are good numbers period. I will not be disappointed at all if they select MT.

    blainer,

    Sam Gagner’s draft year with London (Linemates Patrick Kane & Sergei Kostitsyn):

    GP 69 (including playoffs) 42 Goals 105 Assists 147 Points

  106. Oilspill says:

    Ron McLean to replace Strombo next year. Ya!

  107. stush18 says:

    square_wheels:
    Ice Sage,

    I’ve picked up another fantasy series waiting for that old curmudgeon to publish the last book(s). Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind, very very good.

    I started reading them years ago. Greatest author I’ve ever read. His books sing to you, and the amount of secrets hidden in his books are numerous. Read up online about it afterwards. The wise mans fear is the next one in the series, and quite good.

    The third book has been promised to us for ages and honestly I think it’s going to be a couple more years.frusterating when I finished the first two quite a few years ago and were still waiting.

    Glad to see people give him credit. I’ve really never heard from many other people even knowing who he was.

    But I honestly believe his books will be read in highschools or university much like tolkiens have been

  108. stush18 says:

    square_wheels:
    Ice Sage,

    I’ve picked up another fantasy series waiting for that old curmudgeon to publish the last book(s). Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind, very very good.

    Honestly be careful. I love fantasy novels, and I haven’t read anything as close to as good as this series. Nothing has come close and I’ve searched hard.

    Also, I’ve retread these two books lots, so I’ve had lots of time to do this, but read it out loud if you can. He has simple phrases and poems and songs in the books that hold a double meaning that you don’t catch reading in your head.

    Can’t stress how good this series was. And I’ve read lots.

  109. blainer says:

    Evilas:
    I think everybody here will be quite happy if MT turned out to be the next J.Tavares ..
    MT”s year if you include playoff’s
    77 GP – 50 Goals 97 assists 147 total points.
    Those are good numbers period. I will not be disappointed at all if they select MT.

    blainer,

    Sam Gagner’s draft year with London (Linemates Patrick Kane & Sergei Kostitsyn):

    GP 69 (including playoffs) 42 Goals 105 Assists 147 Points

    Ya that really scares me on MT too.. I have noticed that as well.

    Ricki also makes a really compelling point on picking PLD. As I have said earlier If it were up to me I would choose PLD but will root for whoever they decide on.

  110. Diesel says:

    Calm down, Ricki!

    Hang on to your hats folks it could be a wild week.

  111. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Funny, in Vancouver where they will get whoever doesn’t get picked between Tkachuk & Dubois they can find good things to say about both prospects. Here in Edmonton where there may be a choice between the two there seems to be a lot of open-and-shut case type commentary (not including LT & his balanced post here, just some of the comments). The antipathy towards Tkachuk is surprising. Bugs me because if Oilers do pick him folks are predisposed to dislike him & second guess the choice rather than, you know, appreciating the arrival of a good hockey player.

    Keep an open mind on these teenagers, please, people.

  112. Bruce McCurdy says:

    blainer: As I have said earlier If it were up to me I would choose PLD but will root for whoever they decide on.

    Now THAT sounds like a plan.

  113. stevezie says:

    square_wheels:
    stush18,

    No spoilers but HOLY FUCKING SHIT they keep delivering next level film making. Film making broken into 10 parts/year that we call TV.

    I watched that show tonight for the first time in a couple of years, and walked away feeling really good about my original decision to stop watching it.

  114. stevezie says:

    kinger_OIL: – Kurri though, not so much without Gretz. My bias is that Tkachuk without awesome line on an awesome team, is Kurri circa L.A./Rangers/Ducks/Avalanche

    You know Kurri was a Selke candidate before “two-way players” were en vogue and he lead the Oilers in scoring AFTER Gretzky left?

  115. Younger Oil says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    In regards to Tkachuk, I just think a lot of people around here are concerned that the Oiler’s brass have their blinders on in regards to him (it wouldn’t be the first time that they did this with a player), because every single “major” media outlet has been saying that the Oilers are going to draft Tkachuk, nobody has a doubt in their mind, it’s either Tkachuk or trade the pick.

    The fact that it seems so obvious to the Oilers management that Tkachuk is the superior choice (from what we are getting from the media), it just makes a lot of people around here confused and nervous that it appears so obvious to the media where Edmonton is leaning, when a very in depth, compelling argument can be made about Dubois.

    Now, that is not to say that anyone thinks that the Oilers scouting department hasn’t done their due diligence and seriously scouted these two players, but when the choice seems so close and difficult to us, it just makes us nervous that the choice seems so abundantly clear to the scouts and management. In a decade of controversy, losing, and poor decisions, it is only natural for some fans to be wary of the Oilers’ process.

    People are just voicing their opinion of Dubois more loudly because they feel that they need to speak up for him because in our minds he is an underdog, a forgotten prospect that they believe that people are vastly underrating. It’s not an open and shut case (at least, not for me), and while lots (myself included) believe Dubois to be the better player, when we make an argument for him (or against Tkachuk) we’re just providing an alternate perspective to discuss and debate, like people do with the draft every June.

    It is very similar to the Draisaitl vs Bennett debate a couple of years ago. Going into the draft, people were split down the middle with incredibly strong opinions on who would be the better player, and there were many hyperboles on how they would feel if their choice didn’t get drafted. It is human nature. You get in someone’s corner, and the blinders come on. The more passionate you become, the harder it is to remain impartial.

    In the end, people do realize that it doesn’t matter if it is Dubois or Tkachuk, Bennett or Draisaitl, you are getting a good young player no matter what, and you are going to be in the corner of whoever they draft as soon as they put on an OIlers jersey.

  116. AsiaOil says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    So Bruce – 5 years ago we went at it hammer and tongs over Larsson versus RNH. I waived the white flag after year 2 but the “wait 5 years” maxim seems to have held. Right now trading RNH for Larsson would not be seen as foolish and could even be seen as meeting each team’s need rather nicely.

    To NJD – RNH and Fayne ($9.625 million)

    To: EDM – Larsson and Clowe ($9.017 million with Clowe on LTIR)

    Which guy is worth more probably depends on relative need at this point. We need a young top pair RHD more than a young top line C but I’m not sure NJD (or anyone else for that matter) feels that they need the opposite.

  117. Walter Sobchak says:

    AsiaOil,

    Had RNH not gotten sick & injuried this season we would all be laughing or arguing about how idiotic it would be to trade a 22 year old kid who’s put up numbers that compare with the most elite players in the game today since RNH entered the league.

    It even boggles the mind to think that people would rather trade RNH because they “think” Draisaitl will produce more and he’s bigger….

    Now it may happen that Draisaitl will be better, but he’s not even close yet.

    Trading RNH for Larsson would be foolish, it would be at the detriment of Draisaitl who would take on the heavyset and get crushed doing it.

    The Oilers are famous at doing this, putting players into rolls there not ready for, your trade promotes this thinking while also trading a potential elite centre, there are way better ways to get D-man.

  118. Yeti says:

    rickithebear: Cassie Campbell

    That’s hands down.

  119. AsiaOil says:

    Walter Sobchak: Had RNH not gotten sick & injuried this season we would all be laughing or arguing about how idiotic it would be to trade a 22 year old kid who’s put up numbers that compare with the most elite players in the game today since RNH entered the league.

    I like RNH Walter but you are exaggerating his performance just a smidge.

    313GP 77-145-222 -32

    #80 forward in terms of points scored between 2012-2016 (at least 1000 min)
    #101 ranked forward in terms of points scored between 2011-2015 (at least 1000 min)

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201015&sit=all&type=individual&teamid=0&pos=forwards&minutes=1000&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

    Don’t know why it won’t run a 2011-2016 5 year total – but as with Eberle – the results suggest a lower tier top line player. Albeit with a far better all-round game than Eberle. RNH is not an elite top line center – he’s a young, intelligent, pass-first 200 foot center who looks like a 50 point guy in most years. Having him as your 1B center is a dream behind a big guy with more offense (maybe Drai). The problem with RNH is that the $6 million contract was never actually earned. He had a splendid rookie season and then tore up his shoulder in year 2. Lowe overlooked the lack of record and just gave him $6 million when a bridge deal was the far more prudent approach.

    I’d take RNH on my team any day – would not be thrilled about the $6 million cap hit – but he’s a fantastic complimentary player. He might not drive the bus but he gives damn good directions.

  120. Shizuka says:

    Yeti: That’s hands down the most offensive, sickeningly misogynistic post I’ve read on these pages. Stick to stats, if that’s what you’ve got to offer.

    Definitely some weird, unpleasant overtones in the post.

    Can`t sleep much nowadays. Anyways, I guess I am one of the few who never got into the GoT tv series, though I`m an avid reader of the Song of Ice and Fire books upon which it`s based (long before there was even a thought of a TV show). Nothing is as rich as your own imagination, I feel. Reading about the Red Wedding in the books felt like a punch in the gut! Mr. Martin has faltered in the last couple of books and there has been quite an interminable stretch now awaiting the sixth book, but you can`t rush an artist / writer; I’d just hope his health holds up long enough to complete his magnum opus.

    All this build up and ruminating pre-draft, and yet I can’t help but feel we might get disappointed when it’s over. Things have tightened up considerably in the trade market amongst D targets. I still have a bit of concern with Dubois coming from the Q and also his unremarkable showing at the world juniors against the best peers of his age category, but with all the signs pointing to Tkachuk pulling that Oilers jersey over, it is probably a moot point. Of much greater concern is what Chiarelli will do to address the terrible D struggles of this team. He has really sealed up the info leaks, hardly a word from anyone with any credibility regarding that (aside from the usual speculation).

  121. AsiaOil says:

    Shizuka: I still have a bit of concern with Dubois coming from the Q and also his unremarkable showing at the world juniors against the best peers of his age category.

    Dubois was one of the youngest players invited and did very well against the older guys while in camp. They brought him to camp for the experience as this is primarily a 19 year old tournament. He dominated in the Orr-Cherry Top Prospects game against his own age group.

    “As Larry Fisher mentioned in a projection of the Canadian roster for the 2016 World Junior Championship, Dubois was a surprising invite from the start. He most likely projects to be a piece of the Canadian team next year and the inclusion for selection camp this year may have been about getting him some experience and Hockey Canada continuing to get a sense of what kind of player he is.”

    PLD or Tkachuk would be fine – but I really hope we can pry a RHD like Stone out of ARZ to move down to #7 and take another dman.

  122. FUHR31 says:

    Drai, Rienhart and 32 to St Louis for Paraynko Sobodka and the negotiating rights to Backes

  123. square_wheels says:

    stush18,

    Couldn’t agree more. If you had told me I’d enjoy a series about a gypsy boy and his lute, I’d likely have ignored you.

    He’s a good follow on Twitter as well, is always at comicon’s getting drunk or talking about his small children.

    He’s also sold the rights to make TV, Movie and other content based on his work.

  124. flyfish1168 says:

    I like all three, Dubois , Tkachuk and Puljujarvi.. I feel and believe all three can be good players, but it will come down to developement and the coach will place them on a line to succeed.

    I feel if they can’t play a roll in the top 6 then Tkachuk may have problems succeeding. JMHO

  125. sliderule says:

    Those primary points per game that LT quotes for Tkachuk must not include the playoffs.

    It doesn’t matter anyway as oilers will take him if they use the pick.

  126. skidplate says:

    FR, could you please privide a link. The only NHLE’s I was able to find were .3 OHL and WHL. The Q was .28 and BCwas.14.

    Thanks

    frjohnk:
    Both of these statements are true.

    Tkachuk had the best quality of linemates, but the OHL is noted for being the best junior league in the world.

    The NHLE for the OHL is 0.32.
    The NHLE for the Q is 0.26 ( The BCHL is 0.13, so BCHL is nowhere near the Q)

  127. frjohnk says:

    Skidplate,
    I’m using the NHLE calculator that LT’s uses.

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2016/1/27/nhle-calculator

  128. skidplate says:

    frjohnk,

    Thank you kindly.

  129. Bruce McCurdy says:

    flyfish1168:
    I like all three, Dubois , Tkachuk and Puljujarvi.. I feel and believe all three can be good players, but it will come down to developement and the coach will place them on a line to succeed.

    I feel if they can’t play a roll in the top 6 then Tkachuk may have problems succeeding. JMHO

    If a #4 pick can’t play in the top 6 then he will have had problems succeeding regardless of what his name is.

  130. Jaxon says:

    AsiaOil: Dubois was one of the youngest players invited and did very well against the older guys while in camp. They brought him to camp for the experience as this is primarily a 19 year old tournament. He dominated in the Orr-Cherry Top Prospects game against his own age group.

    “As Larry Fisher mentioned in a projection of the Canadian roster for the 2016 World Junior Championship, Dubois was a surprising invite from the start. He most likely projects to be a piece of the Canadian team next year and the inclusion for selection camp this year may have been about getting him some experience and Hockey Canada continuing to get a sense of what kind of player he is.”

    PLD or Tkachuk would be fine – but I really hope we can pry a RHD like Stone out of ARZ to move down to #7 and take another dman.

    Agreed. Not many players make the Team Canada roster in their draft year. In this year’s draft, only Julien Gauthier (2 pts in 5GP) made it and he is 7.5 months older than Dubois and is 6’4″ 212lbs. Last year only McDavid (11pts in 7GP) and Lawson Crouse (3pts in 7GP) made the team. Crouse is 6’4″ 215lbs. in 2014 only Aaron Ekblad (2pts in 7GP) and Sam Reinhart (4pts in 7GP) made the team. Reinhart was 6.5 months older than Dubois was that year. Ekblad was 6’4, 215lbs and long projected as #1. In 2013, only linemates Nathan MacKinnon (1pt in 6GP) and Jonathan Drouin (4pts in 6GP) made it and I would guess being scoring phenoms and linemates helped them make the team. So, a lot of amazing players don’t even make the team in their draft season and for some of them it is because they have early birthdays and are older than their peers (Gauthier and Reinhart) and for others, their dominant size makes a difference (Gauthier, Crouse). McDavid, Ekblad, MacKinnon, and Drouin were exceptional talents and Drouin may have made it because of MacKinnon or even vice versa. The point I’m trying to make is I wouldn’t worry too much about players not performing well at World Juniors in their draft years.

  131. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Jaxon: Agreed. Not many players make the Team Canada roster in their draft year. In this year’s draft, only Julien Gauthier (2 pts in 5GP) made it and he is 7.5 months older than Dubois and is 6’4″ 212lbs. Last year only McDavid (11pts in 7GP) and Lawson Crouse (3pts in 7GP) made the team. Crouse is 6’4″ 215lbs. in 2014 only Aaron Ekblad (2pts in 7GP) and Sam Reinhart (4pts in 7GP) made the team. Reinhart was 6.5 months older than Dubois was that year. Ekblad was 6’4, 215lbs and long projected as #1. In 2013, only linemates Nathan MacKinnon (1pt in 6GP) and Jonathan Drouin (4pts in 6GP) made it and I would guess being scoring phenoms and linemates helped them make the team. So, a lot of amazing players don’t even make the team in their draft season and for some of them it is because they have early birthdays and are older than their peers (Gauthier and Reinhart) and for others, their dominant size makes a difference (Gauthier, Crouse). McDavid, Ekblad, MacKinnon, and Drouin were exceptional talents and Drouin may have made it because of MacKinnon or even vice versa. The point I’m trying to make is I wouldn’t worry too much about players not performing well at World Juniors in their draft years.

    Fair comment. However, 2016 was an exceptional year where all four of Puljujarvi, Laine, Matthews & Tkachuk all finished in the Top 5 scorers at that tournament. It follows that they are all ranked highly. Mind you, none of them had to make Team Canada, but still, they were elite at this event as draft eligible players.

  132. rickithebear says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes:
    Neither Tkachuk or DeBrincat are defenseman but if we could get both of them they would be the new Hall and Eberle. McDavid was already drafted to replace Nuge.

    It’s possible in a couple years all 3 Steve Austin’s are gone and our Top line is Tkachuk-McDavid-DeBrincat. Hopefully with a couple of Top defenseman to play with them…..

    Tkachuk with sub standard foot speed.and the Robbie schremp “I will improve it. I am a wienner”
    The next taylor hall.
    LMAO!

  133. Jaxon says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Very true, but again, Tkachuk’s linemates were 1/2 of his linemates from this season in London and half of his linemates from last season in the USNDP. Tkachuk-Matthews-Dvorak. As stated ealier in the comments, We really haven’t seen Tkachuk away from Matthews-Bracco or Marner-Dvorak or Matthews-Dvorak in 2 years, even in International play.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca