SILENT SORROW IN EMPTY BOATS

The Edmonton Oilers are a far different team than they were a year ago, but are they better? The team has more balance—and that is a good thing—but suggesting this team is closer to the playoffs is a tricky case to make. I like Milan Lucic and Adam Larsson, but the Oilers lost Taylor Hall and $4 million in cap room to make this happen. What’s more, the team now has one forward who can push the river, and a plethora of well paid complementary (but effective) offensive wingers and pivots. Put another way, the thing that always made the Chicago Blackhawks special—Patrick Kane on one line and Marian Hossa on another—no longer applies in our city. It is a real concern.

Peter Chiarelli’s Oilers are going to be more physical, win more battles and score more ugly goals than the previous Oilers. Will they score enough? Well, the one thing we know about the Hall Oilers: They could not outscore the defensive mistakes, and Chiarelli is addressing the defense. Damn shame previous management could not get it done, but the future is now. You should expect the addition of a puck-moving defenseman before October.

THE CHIARELLI LIST

  1. Top-pairing RHD (Two-way skills—Adam Larsson)
  2. Find a replacement for Taylor Hall (Milan Lucic)
  3. Second-pairing RHD (Offensive defenseman)
  4. Acquire RHC with some skill
  5. Backup goalie (Jonas Gustavsson)

Lucic is clearly an asset for next season (and beyond), but I do wonder about the team’s ability to post two fantastic offensive lines now—something they could do with Hall. Again, lots of talent, but it might be tempting to run Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov (a line that worked) and then use Lucic with the Nuge, Eberle, Draisaitl et cetera.

A lot of upset about the Gustavsson signing, for me this is the kind of addition one should expect from a team that likes their young AHL goalie. By this time next year, Brossoit will be the backup (and expansion eligible, I believe).

One final thing: As much as Chiarelli gave back to the pack in the Hall trade, there is balance (finally!) coming into view. If the Oilers can get a puck-moving defender who can play top four minutes without sacrificing the Nuge, we can talk about that balance photo coming out of moth balls.

CHIARELLI’S MISSTEP

Looking back on the week, and examining the back story via Elliotte Friedman’s excellent 30 Thoughts, I think the error was in not getting P.K. Subban. I understand the cap number was fierce, but that doesn’t make it impossible. There would certainly be pressure on the value end—more Brandon Davidson style roster players—but he did a nice job with Patrick Maroon and this Drake Caggiula fellow could fit the description. Opportunity missed, and you can only trade Taylor Hall once. You can tell me the ask was too much, and that may be true, but the trade happened at the eleventh hour, not at five minutes to midnight. For me, we can make an argument that PC pulled the trigger on the Larsson deal too soon.

THE CHIARELLI EXTENDED PLAY LIST

  1. Add a “Pisani” who can mentor, score 15, and play a two-way role up and down the lineup.
  2. Re-stock the shelves via the draft (Puljujarvi and the entire draft)
  3. Improve overall team speed (Puljujarvi)
  4. Offload Lauri Korpikoski (Bought out)
  5. Improve goaltending depth (added Nick Ellis, Gustavsson).
  6. Improve AHL quality (Caggiula, Russell, Ellis, Gustavsson, Fraser).
  7. Cull the LHD herd (have, in fact, added to the LHD group).

The secondary list is basically complete, and it looks like Edmonton has their 14Fs for next season: Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, Hendricks, McDavid, Nuge, Draisaitl, Letestu, Lander, Eberle, Puljujarvi (not yet signed), Yakupov, Kassian, Pakarinen. I wonder if the team plans on using Nuge in that mentor role. He is a pivot, but Marty Reasoner did a dandy job in the Pisani role for a time. If the Oilers are going to be bringing in a bunch of young wingers (Caggiula, Puljujarvi, Slepyshev, etc), using RNH as a guide is a pretty nice place for them to start. That could happen if Leon develops, but for the coming season I suspect Nuge will be facing tougher competition.

THE ASSETS LIST

  1. Cap space*
  2. Benoit Pouliot
  3. Nail Yakupov
  4. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  5. Taylor Hall
  6. Jordan Eberle
  7. Mark Fayne
  8. Griffin Reinhart
  9. 2017 1st round selection

Cap space can be used as a real weapon now, offer sheets are in the air. Edmonton stepping away from Jason Demers is a real curio, would love to know what backed them off. I can think of only two things: Demers wants the moon in cap and term, or the Oilers have another (trade) option available to them.

The Oilers do have two areas of depth: LHD and LH wingers. Could the Oilers offload Benoit Pouliot or Nail Yakupov in a deal for a RHD?

reinhart capture dec

John Hoven is a very good source, runs one of the best hockey blogs in captivity and routinely delivers newsworthy items. If you don’t read him regularly, I would suggest following on twitter or bookmarking his site.

Hoven recently wrote about the possibility of Los Angeles making a Brayden McNabb style trade—acquiring a player who is a fringe NHL-player and not yet emerging as a complete player—and specifically mentioned Griffin Reinhart:

  • Hoven: The former fourth-overall pick was traded to Edmonton, where he spent his entire junior career, after failing to crack the Islander’s roster. The expectations were that Reinhart would have a better chance at securing an NHL spot on an Oilers squad in desperate need for defenseman. Instead, he spent the year shuttling back-and-forth between Edmonton and Bakersfield. A team desperate to win, the Oilers’ may look to put Reinhart in play, as they continue to try and find players to shore up their blueline. Source

Anaheim spent zero dollars in free agency yesterday. The Ottawa Senators are jealous!

FREE AGENTS STILL AVAILABLE

Here is a list of players I think Edmonton might be wise to consider signing today. Expect no signings by the way, but there is real value out there.

  1. RD Jason Demers, Dallas Stars. Why did he go unsigned?
  2. R P.A. Parenteau, Toronto Maple Leafs. Scoring W, plug-and-play.
  3. RD Jakub Nakladal, Calgary Flames. Big defender, surprised he is UFA.
  4. R Kris Versteeg, Los Angeles Kings. Small, skilled and gritty.
  5. RD Eric Gryba, Edmonton Oilers. It isn’t over until it is over.
  6. R Justin Fontaine, Minnesota Wild. Under the radar option.
  7. LD Adam Pardy, Edmonton Oilers. He has talent.
  8. R Adam Cracknell, Edmonton Oilers. Big, named Adam.

puljujarvi capture 4

ORIENTATION CAMP

I wrote a rather long item about it yesterday over at Oilers Nation. Among the things that should interest us:

  • Jesse Puljujarvi. RW who recently had knee surgery (minor) so very unlikely he will be seen flying down this ice this week in Jasper.
  • Filip Berglund. RHD who has size and puck moving ability. That is a perfect fit for this organization, and he is 19. The man who will forever be known as the return for Justin Schultz could be a year away from entering the system in North America.
  • Markus Niemelainen. LHD with size and good speed. It will be interesting to see just how fast he is—the shutdown side of his game is promising, but a fast big man is a far more substantial prospect than an average one.
  • Drake Caggiula. He should stand out for his skill at this camp, I think he has a chance to play 40 NHL games this coming season.
  • Jaedon Descheneau is a very skilled (small) scorer who might be looking for an AHL deal. Interesting addition.
  • Tyler Benson will make everyone happy if he can skate around the ice at normal speed. That was the only real downside of that selection.
  • Aapeli Rasanen. My pick for most interesting late pick at the recent draft, Rasanen should stand out for all the skill reasons at this camp.
  • Ethan Bear was noticeable a year ago, we should hear more good things this time, including (hopefully) a contract.
  • Caleb Jones is a player I watched closely at Rexall last season. I felt he had good speed a year ago, he clearly had more skill than implied in the scouting reports.

Finally, I attended the Billy Moores Cup a year ago, here are my notes on the players who return this season:

 

  • D William Lagesson. Taller and bigger than I thought he’d be, wiry kid, smooth skater. I like him.
  • D Caleb Jones. Has a better shot than I’d read, needs to fix the sights though. Mobile player, I think his no fuss style probably fits better in a more traditional setting.
  • D Ethan Bear. One of the players I was looking forward to watching, liked his skating and passing. He was a hair reckless with the puck a time or two and lost a physical battle down low (don’t remember opponent) but it was a nice showing.
  • D John Marino: Showed some nice flashes offensively, good speed and a nice shot. Got involved physically, too. You could see his age being a slight issue, but overall a nice job.
  • F Tyler Vesel. Nice passer, very creative.
  • F Luke Esposito. He was involved a lot. Like a whole lot. Drove to the net, passed well. Showed up offensively.

 

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340 Responses to "SILENT SORROW IN EMPTY BOATS"

« Older Comments
  1. Sugar Reijo says:

    JimmyV1965: Except that Hall is infinitely better than Johanson. If you don’t believe this you haven’t watched Johansson. He’s a big man who plays a small game and he’s the poster child for inconsistency. Oh ya, Jones may be better than Larsson as well.

    I stopped taking this post seriously after “Hall is infinitely better than Johanson.”

  2. Pescador says:

    Jethro Tull: He’s got Craig on it.

    When Dallas said “Craig’s on it!” he was talking about Prozac.
    zing

  3. Andy Dufresne says:

    fifthcartel:
    Demers 4.5m x 5. What a good deal.

    Something about the tax burden in Florida being favorable to the tune of about 15to20% over Canadian markets. So probably equivalent to a 5.25 million AVV in Edmonton.

  4. Fog of Warts says:

    rope-a-dope: No one can argue that free agents don’t want to go to Edmonton anymore.. that idea is dead.

    Well, we’ve certainly moved up in the world from where Clarkson rejected crazy term.

    So yes, the fat chick can finally get some, but every time she suggests going out on the town together, her lover boy immediately thinks up some awesome attraction in a neighboring state.

    ———

    “Well, I was sure this place had the world’s scariest roller coaster, you’d think a structure that large wouldn’t be hard to find. Oh, look, we’re almost out of gas, why don’t we go home and shag some more?”

    Sad look.

    “You know what? I think I’ll walk home. It’s only thirty miles, and I could use the exercise. I know it’s dark out, but no need to worry—I’m completely invisible unless there’s a man standing next to me. I should make it home by about, oh, eight in the morning. Buddy, you better be hungry when I get there! … One thing, you should give me your phone just in case—my battery’s low.”

    “But that’s my only Internet!”

    “Whatever would you do on the Internet at three in the morning?”

    Sad look.

    Boy hands over phone.

    Girl opens door, squeezes out of car.

    Boy rolls window. “You’re really going to do this?”

    “Don’t you worry your skinny ass on my account—you just worry about yourself. You’ve got a date with destiny, buster. Oh eight hundred. Plan on being left for dead.”

    “Really?”

    “Is there a problem?”

    “Uh … left for dead?”

    “Like usual, only deader.”

    “Oh.”

    Girl jumbles off down the dusky darkening road with a self-consciously swinging stride, thinking thoughts of Talcum powder. “Maybe there’s some tucked away at the bottom of my purse—need to keep my eyes open for a picnic table under good light, but not the kind with slats spread so far apart.” She’s right. Crawling under a well-lit picnic table at two in the morning to retrieve a slender tube of mascara from the damp grass would stretch her cloak of invisibility a little too far.

    Boy sits in car, staring into the not-yet distance.

    “Shit!”

    Kind of likes the new plan, at a gut level … not that he could change it.

    “Shit!”

    Something about her tone suggested that pleading is futile.

    “But shit!”

    He can’t just drive home, and besides, there would be nothing to do. Three miles an hour, ten hours. Buckle up, Bronco.

    “Shit!”

    “I’ll get pulled over!”

    He can hear it already.

    Officer: “What do you think you’re doing crawling along a back road like that at this time of night?”

    Boy: “Just out for a drive, officer.”

    Officer: “Say, you with that fat chick we saw back there about a mile up the road?”

    Boy [hangs head]: “Yes, officer.”

    Officer: “Well, now you know.”

    Boy, silent.

    Officer: “Here’s my card, should you need it.”

    Boy takes card without lifting head. No response.

    Officer: “I bet she’s got your phone already, hasn’t she?”

    Boy: “Yes, officer.”

    Officer: “You best stop chasing after imaginary roller coasters, and start dealing with the real one, if you want to survive your childhood, know what I mean.”

    Boy: “Yes, officer.”

    “Shit!”

    “Maybe I can see well enough without my lights on. ”

    Boys turns key, nocks stick into triple LLL, and—without any use of the pedals—car begins to creep along the gloomy asphalt edge, slowly munching gravel on just one side.

  5. Younger Oil says:

    In the past 3 seasons:

    Nuge has put up 146 points in 211 games.

    Barrie has put up 140 points in 222 games.

    Honestly, considering we already have McDavid and Draisaitl, I would do a Nuge for Barrie deal all day, then sign/trade for a good 3rd line center.

    Get Barrie and sign him to 5-6 years, and we have an above average top 4 that are all signed for the next 5 years. We have never, EVER had that before. Trading Nuge is worth that to me.

  6. Andy Dufresne says:

    letmycamerongo,

    I expressed this same concern further up the thread and LT responded. It helped put my mind at ease a little. You might want to backtrack and check it out.

  7. Wild Bill Hunter says:

    Here is the thing with the Taylor Hall trade. There is one way to obtain a #1 d by way of trade if you are not sending a top pairing d the other way. That one way is what Chiarelli went with…he traded for a player who might develop into a #1 d…and a righty to boot. It took a HUGE payment. But without a legitimate top 3 rd, the Oilers will not go anywhere, everybody knows that.

    Moving forward we have one more strong puck moving d to facilitate transition and that has both offensive and defensive value. Larsson is still developing and is at a point in his career where he can be given the tough minutes and do well, maybe very well with those minutes.

    Lucic is not Hall but that is not all bad either. How long have we needed skilled nasty on this team? Puljujarvi projects as a player who can “push the river”. And remember the “river” can be pushed in many different ways…I’ve seen Nuge and Ebs “push the river”, I think Draisaitl is also a “river pusher” and Nurse at times uses those wheels for “river pushing” as well. But Hall is gone and despite all of the gloom and doom fan-girl bawling, the team is much better despite the optics.

  8. Water Fire says:

    hags437:
    Water Fire,

    How do you know for certain that Hall was traded for a loss. That seems to be the common thread here. PC lost the Hall trade horribly. We don’t know that yet.

    We do. The issue isn’t Larsson, it’s that right now Hall is a league top player and Larsson isn’t. If you trade an elite player just entering prime you need to get the same value at the time of the trade.

    If Hall was 31 then it would be different and the potential worth it. You don’t roll the dice on potential when you are making a one for one trade of your best player.

  9. stevezie says:

    Sugar Reijo,

    Hall is much better. Better?

  10. Professor Q says:

    stevezie:
    Sugar Reijo,

    Hall is much better. Better?

    Except he’s not.

  11. Professor Q says:

    Water Fire: We do. The issue isn’t Larsson, it’s that right now Hall is a league top player and Larsson isn’t. If you trade an elite player just entering prime you need to get the same value at the time of the trade.

    If Hall was 31 then it would be different and the potential worth it. You don’t roll the dice on potential when you are making a one for one trade of your best player.

    Iginla for Nieuwendyk? :p

  12. Water Fire says:

    Wild Bill Hunter:
    Here is the thing with the Taylor Hall trade.There is one way to obtain a #1 d by way of trade if you are not sending a top pairing d the other way.That one way is what Chiarelli went with…he traded for a player who might develop into a #1 d…and a righty to boot.It took a HUGE payment.But without a legitimate top 3 rd, the Oilers will not go anywhere, everybody knows that.

    Moving forward we have one more strong puck moving d to facilitate transition and that has both offensive and defensive value.Larsson is still developing and is at a point in his career where he can be given the tough minutes and do well, maybe very well with those minutes.

    Lucic is not Hall but that is not all bad either.How long have we needed skilled nasty on this team?Puljujarvi projects as a player who can “push the river”.And remember the “river” can be pushed in many different ways…I’ve seen Nuge and Ebs “push the river”, I think Draisaitl is also a “river pusher” and Nurse at times uses those wheels for “river pushing” as well.But Hall is gone and despite all of the gloom and doom fan-girl bawling, the team is much better despite the optics.

    Doug Hamilton who has far more standing in the league than Larsson went for a first and two seconds. The ‘need’ for a massive overpayment is spin to cover a terrible trade. Larsson has low offense and that is what costs to buy, not defensive play.

  13. Jon K says:

    I’m looking forward to the RE series and for everyone to put down their predictions for the season. I think it will be very elucidative in many ways.

    My view? This team is significantly better overall than it was 365 days ago. Long term and short term. Sometimes the cost of improvement is more than you’d prefer, but you pay it because you can. If someone doesn’t want to believe that a top pairing RH defender inherently has more value in the NHL than an offensive LW, then I’m not going to try to convince them their perspective is wrong. Waste of time, interesting though it might be for discussion.

  14. Water Fire says:

    Professor Q: Iginla for Nieuwendyk? :p

    Right

  15. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Water Fire,

    Hamilton has more standing? Evidence?

  16. Jon K says:

    Water Fire: Doug Hamilton who has far more standing in the league than Larsson went for a first and two seconds. The ‘need’ for a massive overpayment is spin to cover a terrible trade. Larsson has low offense and that is what costs to buy, not defensive play.

    Do you remember the circumstances of the Hamilton trade? It was widely reported that Sweeney left significant value on the table to basically give Chiarelli the finger. There is zero value in Hamilton as a precedent.

  17. Stelio Kontos says:

    Can we stop with the idea that the city is the reason UFA didn’t want to come? If that was the case, Detroit would be an AHL team. The Oilers have sucked for a long time, and even though there was a glint of a bright future, UFA wanted proof first. McDavid changes everything.

  18. JDï™ says:

    Water Fire: Doug Hamilton who has far more standing in the league than Larsson went for a first and two seconds.

    That was considered a horrible trade for the Bruins, but now it’s a bench mark for young, RHD value?

  19. Professor Q says:

    Stelio Kontos:
    Can we stop with the idea that the city is the reason UFA didn’t want to come? If that was the case, Detroit would be an AHL team. The Oilers have sucked for a long time, and even though there was a glint of a bright future, UFA wanted proof first. McDavid changes everything.

    They do also love the new Ice District, too. Having both at the same time helps a lot. Winning more will help even more.

  20. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    For some McDavid changes everything. Others will recognize that we were still terrible last year after adding the best free agent D, a quality 1G, and a generational C. For them they will need evidence by way of improvement in the standings to be convinced. It will be different for everyone.

  21. Jon K says:

    Andy Dufresne: Something about the tax burden in Florida being favorable to the tune of about 15to20% over Canadian markets.So probably equivalent to a 5.25 million AVV in Edmonton.

    The media personality who reported it escapes me right now, but they reported that Tampa’s UFA package is unique in the NHL because it starts by discussing Florida’s tax advantages over other teams and how accordingly their dollars on a contract are worth more than other teams.

  22. Water Fire says:

    Gordies Elbow: Best player? They traded McDavid?

    If I were one of the other general managers, I’d love for Chiarelli to be patient, as he burns through McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, etc. entry level contracts. I would hope that Edmonton continues to keep it’s unbalanced roster, and burn through as many years as they have since they drafted Hall.

    Shero clearly said that aside from McDavid, he wasn’t going to trade Larsson for any other assets. Edmonton needed Larsson, and knew that they would have a compelling pitch for Lucic to fill the hole created.

    It was clearly an overpay, but a needed one. The Hall window was never balanced. Chiarelli is making sure that McDavid doesn’t suffer the same fate.

    Hall was at the time the Oilers best player. McDavid will be better but isn’t yet.

    If you buy the spin that Chiarelli had no option but to get smoked in the trade then you are saying Larsson was the only option and so desirable the deal had to happen. Larsson isn’t Doughty, this is just not true.

    What about using Sekera or Klef on the right and waiting? They both can do it. The sense of urgency did not have to do with the on the ice product, Larsson is not established, who knows if he’ll even work out in the West? PK would have been different that way.

    It may have been urgent for Chiarelli personally.

  23. Stanley 2018 says:

    So whats the consensus on a Nuge for Fowler trade? I say yes if Barrie cant happen.

  24. Henry says:

    Well Demers is off the table. Strange that Chiarelli couldn’t beat $4.5M over 5 years. Maybe he just wanted to live in Miami over the winter.

  25. Snowman says:

    Stanley 2018:
    So whats the consensus on a Nuge for Fowler trade? I say yes if Barrie cant happen.

    Nuge for another left shot bottom 4 dman?

    That seems like a good idea… we definitely have too many centerman who have played 250 games or more and definitely not enough bottom 4 left shot d…

  26. digger50 says:

    does anybody know the true reason for Chiarrellis departure from Boston?

    I know he made a huge number of trades when he started. I’m wondering what talent he had when he started? I’m also wondering how the team has ended up in such poor shape today.

  27. Water Fire says:

    hags437:
    Water Fire,

    Your argument makes zero sense. Last time I checked the Kings and Blues were light years ahead of the Oilers. Kings have Cups to prove it and the Blues continue to make playoffs. But yes…we should have kept our precious kids together and sat at the bottom happy with out shiny toys.

    My point about the Kings and Blues is that they were built to be big grinder teams and the league is changing. LA has two Cups, but barely makes the playoffs or misses because they have trouble scoring.

    Their last Cup included a lot of OT wins. They are a good team but luck favoured them that year, and the league is moving past that type of game. They are not a dominant team when it counts outside of their first Cup run, and the league has adapted to that.

    i am not against trading players, I am against losing trades in a big way with top players especially. That is why the Oilers were so bad for so long. For the team to get better they need to stop doing that.

  28. Andy Dufresne says:

    Anyone???………Anyone??? ……Bhuler???

    OK…one “Woodguy” one small rock hammer and a Raquel Welsh Poster……..

    Andy Dufresne:
    LT you are right to point out that in losing Hall we lose an elite level driver. What i’m about to say is in no way meant to contradict that.

    Its a funny thing about drivers…..you can have 5 people in a car but only one of them will be the driver. But remove that driver and 10 times out of 10 someone else steps up his game and takes hold of the wheel. We’ve seen that from Nuge in the past (just not consistently) and thier are players with potential like Draisaitl.

    I wont try and predict who it will be and where it will come from (predicting is voodoo) but but by some strange voodoo osmosis that makes sports unpredictable i beleive it will happen.

    Based on that belief, i’m willing to wager “A Woodguy” push on the Paypal button that the Oilers Goal Differential in the 2016-17 season will be better than their Goal Differential from 2015-16.

    (limit of one “woodguy” in total) Any takers?

  29. Masamax says:

    The tax advantages of Florida teams are a little overblown. While there is no state income tax, you play 41games away from Florida, and pay state and local taxes in each of those games at local rates. In addition, if you are a Canadian citizen and maintain a primary residence here like Stamps and many other players, you are still paying Canadian income tax (even if you can deduct the amount paid to US jurisdictions).

    The long and short is that while Florida does have an advantage, the math posted online now numerous times simply isn’t close to accurate. Actual rates paid by each NHL player do not differ all that substantially, certainly not the 20% difference being bandied about right now.

  30. Younger Oil says:

    On the Taylor Hall trade:

    I think people are forgetting that Hall has only been on a 60-65 point pace the past two seasons. Yes, I know we all can argue about how he drove possession and is a great even strength producer, but the bottom line is if he directly helps put the puck in the net a comparable amount of times to guys like Lucic and Okposo that you can find in free agency every year, is it really worth giving up a young, valuable RHD with tons of potential when you can just snag a similar player in free agency?

    I don’t think all of that is true obviously, but I think that is similar to other GM’s lines of thinking, and why Hall’s trade value is so much lower than we thought it would be.

    Looking at it that way makes me feel a bit better about the trade.

  31. Water Fire says:

    Sugar Reijo: And it would be hard to convince me that Eberle and even Nuge at $6 million are anywhere near as valued by other GMs as you think.

    I believe Chia when he says Hall was the market. It squares with the Johansen/Jones deal.

    Does it? Hall is a far better player than Johansen who still hadn’t hit his believed potential and had ‘issues’ which is why he was dealt, and Jones is the most desired RH prospect other than Ekblad.

    Johansen is not near Hall and Larsson not near Jones as players. The exchanged values are far different.

    EDIT:
    Hall for Jones would have had legs to stand on. We know Chiarelli was in on that, why didn’t he make that far better deal if the massive overpay is needed? Things don’t add up to me.

  32. Jon K says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Anyone???………Anyone??? ……Bhuler???

    Let is sit awhile. You’d think there’d be takers, considering the verbal here.

  33. Stanley 2018 says:

    Snowman,

    oh sh** thought he was RD. His scoring is .46ppg, so he’s not Fayne. Lefty a game changer though.

  34. Sugar Reijo says:

    Stanley 2018:
    So whats the consensus on a Nuge for Fowler trade? I say yes if Barrie cant happen.

    I would prefer to keep Nuge if Barrie isn’t the play.

  35. Water Fire says:

    Sugar Reijo: You know they made the finals four years ago under Chiarelli, right?

    I used to be the best looking guy in town. I’m trying to get back there. 🙂

  36. Jon K says:

    Masamax:
    The tax advantages of Florida teams are a little overblown. While there is no state income tax, you play 41games away from Florida, and pay state and local taxes in each of those games at local rates. In addition, if you are a Canadian citizen and maintain a primary residence here like Stamps and many other players, you are still paying Canadian income tax (even if you can deduct the amount paid to US jurisdictions).

    The long and short is that while Florida does have an advantage, the math posted online now numerous times simply isn’t close to accurate. Actual rates paid by each NHL player do not differ all that substantially, certainly not the 20% difference being bandied about right now.

    Every player in the NHL plays 41 games away. Only players on the two Florida teams don’t pay state or provincial taxes for the other 41 games. So, 10-20% on the prorated salary for 41 games, or 50% of salary roughly. Still ends up being 5-10% off $4.5 million. I’m not an accountant, but the tax advantages are real and appear substantial.

  37. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Water Fire,

    Jones was third pair in Nashville, and I would argue RyJos perceived value league wide was higher than Hall.

  38. Wild Bill Hunter says:

    Wild Bill Hunter:
    Water Fire,

    Water Fire: Doug Hamilton who has far more standing in the league than Larsson went for a first and two seconds. The ‘need’ for a massive overpayment is spin to cover a terrible trade. Larsson has low offense and that is what costs to buy, not defensive play.

    I think perhaps you would be more correct in saying Hamilton “had” far more standing in the league.His game did not advance last year, Larsson’s did.AND Larsson is a good puck mover, points aside.However, Hamilton would have been a tremendous pickup.But Sweeney decided to go full idiot mode on that one.He was afraid of an offer sheet and gave away Hamilton for a song.This year is a new reality.

  39. Snowman says:

    Stanley 2018,

    I’m not even sure I like Nuge for Barrie… Mind you I’m biased because, like the host of this wonderful place, Nuge is my favorite Oiler.

    Nuge for Barrie is a big bet on the big German and creates a hole at 3C unless Chia is bringing back the Todd “the Anton Lander Whisperer” Nelson.

    Fowler is a good D but he’s not worth a Nuge. He’s worth a Poulliot or comparable in my opinion. And honestly we need Pou more than ever now so I just don’t see a fit.

  40. Stelio Kontos says:

    Professor Q: They do also love the new Ice District, too. Having both at the same time helps a lot. Winning more will help even more.

    Also not sold on the Ice district being a big seller. People say it is, but it’s not like it is a huge differentiator over most modern rinks. Players want to play on good teams. If we show them something, we will get hometown discounts on UFA.

  41. Water Fire says:

    Stelio Kontos: If we moved eberle for vatenen, and signed Okposo, what would your thoughts have been?

    I would have thought it was brilliant. Convert a complimentary player into a needed position and replace him at the same salary with a bigger similar age equivalent scorer, and still have Hall.

    They would still be looking for the #1 RHD, but then they may still be.

  42. JimmyV1965 says:

    Younger Oil:
    In the past 3 seasons:

    Nuge has put up 146 points in 211 games.

    Barrie has put up 140 points in 222 games.

    Honestly, considering we already have McDavid and Draisaitl, I would do a Nuge for Barrie deal all day, then sign/trade for a good 3rd line center.

    Get Barrie and sign him to 5-6 years, and we have an above average top 4 that are all signed for the next 5 years. We have never, EVER had that before. Trading Nuge is worth that to me.

    I don’t disagree with this assessment at all and I actually don’t think the Avs would do that deal. What truly frightens me though is the notion that Drai can step in as the 2C. That is simply setting him up for a failure, like we have done so often with so many players.

  43. Ice Sage says:

    Water Fire: Does it? Hall is a far better player than Johansen who still hadn’t hit his believed potential and had ‘issues’ which is why he was dealt, and Jones is the most desired RH prospect other than Ekblad.

    Johansen is not near Hall and Larsson not near Jones as players. The exchanged values are far different.

    EDIT:
    Hall for Jones would have had legs to stand on. We know Chiarelli was in on that, why didn’t he make that far better deal if the massive overpay is needed?

    The whispers from the Johansen-Jones trade was that Nashville were looking for a centre and RNH, not Hall, was the play from Chia. It’s all about perceived value to the exchanging teams!!!!!

  44. Water Fire says:

    Jethro Tull: The overall net result of this off-season and the finish next season will define Chia’stenure.

    If Larsson scores 10 goals and puts up 20 assists whilst helping to reduce the goal diff, then that trade starts looking better through the lens of hindsight.

    If Lucic scores 25 andputs up 35 assists whilst being defensively responsible and protecting McDavid?

    No any one player replaces Hall.But just by being better on the back end will grease the wheels somewhere else.Hall sawed off against everybody.Larsson sawed off against these guys called Crosby, Ovechkin etc.

    You’re right in that it will look better. The issue isn’t that the incoming guys aren’t good. It is a different issue that the trade was awful and Lucic and Hall aren’t mutually exclusive

  45. stevezie says:

    Professor Q,

    By most objective measures he is. Let’s hear a counter argument.

  46. JimmyV1965 says:

    Stanley 2018:
    So whats the consensus on a Nuge for Fowler trade? I say yes if Barrie cant happen.

    Absolutely not. We now need RNH as the anchor for 2L. Slotting in Drai as the anchor for 2L is a huge gamble that could really hurt his development. This would have been a nice option is we didn’t trade Hall.

  47. Robinthe403 says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    For the record it’s BUELLER and WELCH.

  48. Clay says:

    Florida isn’t the only state with NHL teams that has no state tax. Texas, Tennessee, and Nevada are on that list too. Do they have massive UFA advantages? Dunno.

  49. Mr DeBakey says:
  50. rickithebear says:

    so the mistake was not to trading fro subban:
    subban:
    1st team 2.98 GF teammates
    32.56 EVSF/60
    3.06 GF/60

    bot 1st comp 2.99 GF players
    bottom 60 HSCAD
    31.1 EVSA/60
    2.48 EVGA/60
    53.17 PPSF/60
    6.79 PPGF/60

    Sekera 5.5M
    Bot 3rd teammates 2.01 GF players
    29.14 EVSF/60
    1.89 EVGF/60

    bottom 1st comp 2.98 GF players
    bottom 49 HSCA D
    30.48 EVSA/60
    2.48 EVGA/60

    55.15 PPSF/60
    7.46 PPGF/60

    what i see is
    -Sekera faced the best with our 3rd/4th line yet had the same Defensive numbers.
    Alot less pocession???

    – subban faced withhthe best with there best had the same Defensive numbers.
    More pocession????/

    both players offence was similar to the quality of teammates offence!

    This is how I look at Dmen Offence and Defence.

    Dependent on
    Comp face
    Teammates Pocession and Offence
    Dman’s ability to reduce shots in HSCA.

    Sekera is superior defensively with lesser teammates.
    when you look at Sekera offensive results with 1st teammates it is comparible

    seeker 5.5M
    subban 9.0M

    Subban no F…………… way!

  51. kooler says:

    Eberle maybe….but Nuge needs to stay. Too much pressure on Dria to take the lead on a second line, needs time. Maybe trade Nuge in a year.

    What would Yak+ Reinhardt get you?

  52. Professor Q says:

    Stelio Kontos: Also not sold on the Ice district being a big seller. People say it is, but it’s not like it is a huge differentiator over most modern rinks.Players want to play on good teams. If we show them something, we will get hometown discounts on UFA.

    When the players themselves are the ones marvelling at it, who am I to argue?

  53. Professor Q says:

    stevezie:
    Professor Q,

    By most objective measures he is. Let’s hear a counter argument.

    Let’s hear said “most objective measures”. Your word alone is not “most objective measures”.

  54. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Earl Weaver gets mentioned here from time to time:

    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/748955455100186624

    Edit:
    Lookitt this one!:
    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/748900037204119552

    I remember when Earl moved him there, he looked ridiculous. Visually Shortstops were small and from south America or an island somewhere.

  55. Frank the dog says:

    Lowetide: I think he will have to complete the task now, there is no middle ground. By completing the task, I mean he will have to get that puck-moving defender, have some cover in case Puljujarvi is unready, and be damn well ready to address problems in-season. Winning 40 games would be fabulous, and of course if this team is healthy next season it is doable. PC did not take the easy route, that is for sure. For that, he should be congratulated.

    With turnarounds the only route is frequently the hard route. The failures I have seen, asre usually when the person bought in to do the turnaround is either too scared to make the tough calls or prevented from doing so by jittery people who don’t get the problem.
    In this case LT I am not criticising you on your feelings, you have likely forgotten more than I know about hockey, as have most of the contributors on this blog but I’m talking about turnarounds, which I am familiar with. over the 40 plus years I have been in business. I see Chiarelli as a very astute and capable manager who has access to facts about players and managers demands and so on that we don’t have. I see him as a person who knows the worth of his players and who knows the importance of the key pieces required to build a winning team. In this case I would not be surprised if Chia only pulled the trigger on Hall/Larsson when Demers demurred, and when he knew the final cost of PK. I would suspect that Keeping Hall and getting Demers and Lucic was final option #1, Hall for Larsson #2 and the PK demands in excess of the return from a #1RHD with some baggage (or why did he trade him), a huge cap hit, and gutting the core even more than Hall going into the future. Im sure the Hall trade had to have Nicholson’s and Katz’ blessing before he pulled the trigger, in the knowledge of an uproar from the fans. I tip my hat to Chia for having the cojones to make this trade, I believe this is a major turning point for the franchise. I think Larsson’s breakout passes and Lucic’s package of psychotic protection levels, some speed and soft hands, are the catalysts to unlock CMD’s brilliance. I expect Lucky and Connor to be a fixture, with BPA at the time on RW, I would suspect Ebs or Drai.
    I don’t see why people expect you to have the same opinion as everyone else. You are very respectful of others opinions, we should be at least equally respectful of yours, even if we disagree at the time.
    I don’t think Chia is in jeopardy, unless he tanks in the new stadium.

  56. Pescador says:

    Water Fire: I used to be the best looking guy in town. I’m trying to get back there.

    Me too, but it’s especially bad because there is only 1 other guy in this town and he’s retired.

  57. flyfish1168 says:

    Not much has been mentioned about Rasmus Ristolainen. Player picked just after Darnell. Ristolainen is a RHD, has about the same rate of points as Seth Jones taken 4th in the same draft year. He maybe worth an offer sheet or a trade with Sabres. We would be set at RHD with Ristolainen and Larson

  58. lynn says:

    Brad Hunt has signed with St. Louis.

    http://blues.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=888398

    He will be a star for the Chicago Wolves next season.

  59. Younger Oil says:

    flyfish1168:
    Not much has been mentioned about Rasmus Ristolainen. Player picked just after Darnell. Ristolainen is a RHD, has about the same rate of points as Seth Jones taken 4th in the same draft year. He maybe worth an offer sheet or a trade with Sabres. We would be set at RHD with Ristolainen and Larson

    Reportedly we offered Hall for Ristolainen.

    They said no.

  60. Mr DeBakey says:

    Lowetide: I remember when Earl moved him there, he looked ridiculous. Visually Shortstops were small and from south America or an island somewhere.

    Its like a bottomless well of awesomeness
    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/747282985011970048

  61. Ice Sage says:

    Lowetide: Chiarelli has cashed a major asset for less than 100 cents on the dollar. If you ran a business, would this worry you?

    “Yep, we should hold on to them big CRT TV monitors cuz them flat screens cost too much and maybe not so reliable” I exaggerate but, when I was in business, we had to evolve or fall behind and every change brought risk and cost us something short-term.

    LT – no love for Justin Schultz in the unsigned FA column…? that’s the one storyline left that interests me before I shift my summer sports energies to the Tour de France. Merci

  62. stevezie says:

    flyfish1168,

    Oh he gets mentioned. No way Buffalo lets him go. Not only is he awesome, he is their only good d-man.

  63. rickithebear says:

    Hamilton faces upr 3rd comp 2.37 GF
    with 3rd comp teammates 2.29 GF
    30.93 EVSHF/60
    2.06 EVGF/60

    bottom 20 HSCA D
    29.64 EVSA/60
    2.57 EVGA/60

  64. Gino says:

    JOHNNY OPERATOR76:
    Hall had the skills that were lethal in junior, but he was becoming less effective at the NHL level because it was the same play most every time. Sure it was impressive how he skated up the ice but that same ol lame shot that the goalie would yawn and save was getting old. Way too predictable. Good player who looked even better on a terrible team. Lucic is the answer. Hail PC!

    IMO Hall has reached his ceiling and had peaked. The defense required urgent attention and yes Hall was the asking price whether it was Larsson or Subban. Hall is gone and I will miss him on the team and Chiarelli would of been criticized with any move involving Hall. Was the return low in the deal that was made today the answer is yes, 1 -2 years from now ? I’m looking forward to more moves because this isn’t over yet.

  65. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey: Its like a bottomless well of awesomeness
    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/747282985011970048

    Thats Moon in Washington. He was a fantastic college QB.

  66. Doug McLachlan says:

    Don’t think Nuge or Eberle would be the ask from Anaheim, they are so tight to the cap as they still need room for Lindholm and Rackell.

  67. Connoreah says:

    I think one of the more overlooked benefits that come with Lucic is what he’ll bring to the locker room. For the past 5 years I haven’t had the sense that anyone on the team commanded respect the way he will. I don’t think a losing attitude or laziness will be acceptable with Lucic there, and possibly Connor wearing the ‘C’. I sense a shift in the ‘culture’ already.

  68. Younger Oil says:

    We signed Bear!!!

    The third member of the rightorium.

  69. flyfish1168 says:

    stevezie:
    flyfish1168,

    Oh he gets mentioned. No way Buffalo lets him go. Not only is he awesome, he is their only good d-man.

    I like Darnell, but if there was a do over I wonder

  70. Professor Q says:

    flyfish1168: I like Darnell, but if there was a do over I wonder

    I do think Lowetide had the right of that Draft. He had been clamoring for Risto for months.

  71. jonrmcleod says:

    We stop being nervous that Ethan Bear might not sign.

  72. Lenny says:

    I’m not sure about the merits of IPP as a measure of offence for defenceman, I remember Woodguy was looking at it for draft-eligible defenceman a year or two ago, but there was a massive spike in Larsson’s IPP in 2014-2015.

    Here’s his IPP by year:
    2013-2014- 33.3
    2014-2015- 61.3
    2015-2016- 31.7

    That 2014-2015 IPP puts him at the top of the league among defenceman who played over 1000 ES minutes that year, just ahead of Mike Green, John Carlson and Brent Burns.

    He also ranked 19th overall that year for ES P/60 among defenceman over 1000 mins.

    Not nearly as good this year, but looks like he’s at least got some offensive potential.

    I understand I’m cherry-picking stats here, but IPP seems like a useful measure of offence for players on offence-starved teams.

  73. stevezie says:

    Professor Q,

    Career high Points, career points, career points per game, career goals, career goals per game, personal best points per game in one season, even strength points per 60, relative corsi, relative +/-, success in front of a defense barely capable of getting him the puck…

    I recall them Both having good wowy numbers, but i think Hall’s were better. Could be wrong.

    Oh and Hall made an all-star team.

    Oh and Hall was better in every counting category last season.

    One of those is slightly subjective, but i can’ imagine anyone arguing the Oilers defense is shitty point.

    I also like Hall better by eye, but that’s just me.

    What’s the Johansson argument?

  74. Woodguy says:

    In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

    Johansen was 23, had been playing 1C (and RH) for 2.5 years and had scored 0.80pts/gm over that time.

    Jones, 21, has played only 3rd pair in his entire NHL career. Being behind Weber and Ellis on the right side will do that to you. He killed 3RD, but it was 3RD. He also played 2PP and 1PK.

    NAS was getting someone who showed he could score at an elite rate as a 1C.
    CBJ was buying “a bet on that Jones could play 1RD”

    In the EDM-NJD trade:

    EDM traded a 24 year old 1LW who’s been playing 1LW while scoring at .91pts/gm (what makes Hall special is that so many of those points are 5v5, which is the toughest to score at)

    NJD was trading a 23 year old who had played 1RD for the past two years. He has some of the best defensive metrics among D who play firsts, but he also played with Greene, so the bet is that he could continue to do so without Greene. Larsson plays 1PK and does not play PP.

    CBJ’s trade was a bet on a player’s future much, much more than EDM’s was.

  75. cc says:

    LT: I like Milan Lucic and Adam Larsson, but the Oilers lost Taylor Hall and $4 million in cap room to make this happen. What’s more, the team now has one forward who can push the river, and a plethora of well paid complementary (but effective) offensive wingers and pivots. Put another way, the thing that always made the Chicago Blackhawks special—Patrick Kane on one line and Marian Hossa on another—no longer applies in our city.

    … I’ve never been a huge fan Lucic but I recognize his ability as a power forward and the impact he can have in a teams line-up. Conversely, I’ve never been a huge Hall fan either (was always in the Sequin camp back then) and seemed to always focus on his turnover ratio verses his positives.

    I appreciate how much you liked Hall, how he could “push the river” in your words and how disappointing that you won’t see him find his success here in Oil Country. If Nuge or Ebs go I’ll feel the same way. But I disagree that we don’t have the up-front “Blackhawk Special” in our line-up.

    We have McDavid on one line who IMO will put more points on the board then Kane over the next 5 – 10 years and the word ‘Special’ just won’t be suffice. And Nuge is just coming of age, is a wizard with the puck, wins battle you would think he shouldn’t and perhaps will lead the best second line in the NHL. Yes we’re down 4million cap, but have acquired two terrific players, one in a critically need spot the other very likely putting 50+ points on the board along side McDavid.

    We’ll all miss Taylor in some ways, but dow the Hall we’ll be a far better team. Chin’s up gentlemen!

  76. stevezie says:

    flyfish1168: I like Darnell, but if there was a do over I wonder

    yep. I love Darnell, but anyone who would take him in a do over is insane.

  77. Andy Dufresne says:

    Jon K: The media personality who reported it escapes me right now, but they reported that Tampa’s UFA package is unique in the NHL because it starts by discussing Florida’s tax advantages over other teams and how accordingly their dollars on a contract are worth more than other teams.

    i believe it was Stamkos agent Don Meehan in conversation with Bob McGowan.

  78. Hockey Buddha says:

    Lowetide,

    The Oilers are a better team today than before the summer began. Trading Taylor Hall hurt, and yet adding Puljujarvi at the draft, Lucic in free agency, and Larsson in the Hall trade means that this team has already improved significantly this summer.

    It wouldn’t surprise me to see Lucic, if healthy, get 70-80 points playing along side McDavid, matching Hall’s point production, while adding a highly physical presence. Landing Puljujarvi at the draft was a delightful turn of events for the team (he could step in very soon–possibly out of the gate–and help). Lucic and Larsson more than offset the loss of Taylor Hall and help to improve the team’s defensive woes.

    As a GM, Chiarelli is decisive; really, it’s what we need in a GM to finish this thing off. We have to pay a significant price for the necessary adjustments. There is some blood in the water. A lack of foresight and organizational planning has put us into this position. Chiarelli is now paying the price to get us out of it. It’s painful, yes, but the game is won by teams not individuals, and we’ll be the better for it.

    We can brace again, because we can reasonably predict that Nugent-Hopkins will be heading out of town for another defenseman. Trading Nuge will bother me, because I love the player, even if rationally, I know, like we all do, that hockey is a team game, and its defense that gets it done, more often than not.

    Chiarelli is paying the cost for a lack of organizational foresight and planning. He is moving decisively to correct the problems on this team. It is not Chiarelli’s fault; he is correcting what needs to be corrected on the team that he inherited. This team simply doesn’t move forward without properly correcting the team’s back end. Chiarelli is building a monster of a team, even if he appears to lose a trade or two in the process. Trading Hall helped to address the team’s needs. We can keep the same players, but then should expect the same result. Personally, I’m tired of the results. Change is essential. We are closer now than before.

  79. Andy Dufresne says:

    Thank you…..this prison food is roting my brane.

    (and to think I went with Welch cause I wasnt sure how to spell Hayworth)

    Robinthe403:
    Andy Dufresne,

    For the record it’s BUELLER and WELCH.

  80. stevezie says:

    Woodguy,

    Any thoughts on why the stats loving Lambert is so hard on Larsson?

    I hate the trade as much as he does, but even i think he is underselling the Swede.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/peter-chiarelli-and-the-problem-with-tunnel-vision-trending-topics-050439733.html

  81. Woodguy says:

    Also,

    P.Kane isn’t a driver/river pusher.

    He’s an elite finisher. Best in the NHL imo.

    He’s been a Negative RelCor player as much as a + one in the last 5 years, all depends on his C (which is why I predicted him having an amazing year with Animov *pats self on back*)

    Hossa/Toews are the drivers and often play on the same line.

    Keith drives from the blue line.

    I’ve been kicking around the idea of a long post on the difference between drivers and finishers.

    Its the difference between “offence” and “scoring”

    Driving/offence gets the puck from your zone to the ozone.

    Finishing/Scoring puts it in the net once its there.

    Two separate skills and those who excel at both are the guys making the huge coin.

    Some drivers don’t get paid well because they don’t finish well, that’s still an inefficiency in the market.

    Finishers always get paid because it shows up on the score sheet, but often GM’s pull their hair out because without someone to drive the puck to the ozone, they can flounder, get traded and then magically “find their game” if they get put with players who’ll get the puck to the ozone for them.

  82. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy,

    stevezie:
    Woodguy,

    Any thoughts on why the stats loving Lambert is so hard on Larsson?

    I hate the trade as much as he does, but even i think he is underselling the Swede.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/peter-chiarelli-and-the-problem-with-tunnel-vision-trending-topics-050439733.html

    Lambert is Lambert.

    He knows his stuff but Larsson didn’t score much this year and is a negative RelCor so it automatic for most people to dismiss him.

    Hall is an elite driver and good at scoring.

    Its not a good trade.

  83. Bling says:

    SumOil:
    Pouzar,

    He is tracking defensively not offensively

    I looked at EV scoring rates for a few top-pairing D in a previous thread in their age 22 and 23 seasons. I’ll paste it here again. First number is at age 22, the second is at age 23.

    EV scoring (P/60):

    Adam Larsson 1.1/0.7
    Roman Josi 0.7/1.1
    Ryan Ellis 0.5/1.1
    Ekman-Larsson 0.9/0.9
    Subban 0.9/1.0
    Hedman 1.4/1.6

    Larson’s EV scoring is right in line with many top pairing D at his age — Hedman is a freak of a nature — despite playing on one of the worst EV scoring teams in the NHL (last year, NJD was 30th).

    Larsson just hasn’t played on the PP all that much.

    Woodguy’s EV analysis has him as the 5th best RHD. Overall (all situations), he’s 15th, and no one on the list above him is younger.

    That article is great btw, highly recommend it, very well done.

  84. Professor Q says:

    stevezie:
    Professor Q,

    Career high Points, career points, career points per game, career goals, career goals per game, personal best points per game in one season, even strength points per 60, relative corsi, relative +/-, success in front of a defense barely capable of getting him the puck…

    I recall them Both having good wowy numbers, but i think Hall’s were better. Could be wrong.

    Oh and Hall made an all-star team.

    Oh and Hall was better in every counting category last season.

    One of those is slightly subjective, but i can’ imagine anyone arguing the Oilers defense is shitty point.

    I also like Hall better by eye, but that’s just me.

    What’s the Johansson argument?

    Johansen has only played 3 years in the league, true, but that doesn’t make Hall “much” better when Ryan is already putting up similar numbers to Hall as a #1 RH C who is larger.

  85. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    Also,

    P.Kane isn’t a driver/river pusher.

    He’s an elite finisher.Best in the NHL imo.

    Seems to me there is parsing here. A finisher is Ovechkin to my mind. Patrick Kane posted 60 assists this year, I think finisher is not the correct word.

  86. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide: Seems to me there is parsing here. A finisher is Ovechkin to my mind. Patrick Kane posted 60 assists this year, I think finisher is not the correct word.

    Ovechkin also pushes his own finishes.

  87. Bling says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t really like that Lambert article. Taylor Hall is a tremendous player, I agree with that, and I agree that the trade wasn’t Chia’s finest (although he has now had a few duds).

    However, for Lambert to say that he would take “several dozen” D before Larsson, without offering any sort of statistical argument one way or another, is a bit strange to me. Some might accuse him of tunnel vision 😉

  88. LMHF#1 says:

    I’m assuming people know about this, but I thought I’d throw this up so that if you’re wondering about taxes on these contracts and why players might get different amounts in different places, you have something to work with:

    http://gavingroup.ca/personal-income-tax-rates-in-nhl-cities/

  89. LoDog says:

    Last I checked lucic pushed the river.

    If the ask was anywhere close to rumoured for pk that would have started infinibuild 5.0.

    Larsson is a far better dmsn than Hamilton.

  90. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Seems to me there is parsing here. A finisher is Ovechkin to my mind. Patrick Kane posted 60 assists this year, I think finisher is not the correct word.

    Probably just semantics.

    Passing the puck well in the ozone to enable a goal is “finishing” as much as a goal is.

    Getting the puck to the ozone from the dzone if “driving/offence”

  91. Woodguy says:

    Bling:
    Woodguy,

    I don’t really like that Lambert article. Taylor Hall is a tremendous player, I agree with that, and I agree that the trade wasn’t Chia’s finest (although he has now had a few duds).

    However, for Lambert to say that he would take “several dozen” D before Larsson, without offering any sort of statistical argument one way or another, is a bit strange to me. Some might accuse him of tunnel vision

    Lambert has never been one not to employ hyperbole

  92. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

    Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

  93. Bling says:

    spoiler: Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

    I was going to defend WG and say all Swedish defensemen look the same 😉 but then I realized Severson is from Saskatchewan.

    Damn it!

  94. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Probably just semantics.

    Passing the puck well in the ozone to enable a goal is “finishing” as much as a goal is.

    Getting the puck to the ozone from the dzone if “driving/offence”

    So, finishing is an inside the zone word and pushing/driving is getting into the zone?

  95. Oilers8833 says:

    First thanks Lowetide for being the voice of reason after all of this. I know I can always come to your blog to get some reasonable perspective on anything Oilers. Second is folks I’m a huge Oilers fan and have been for the better part of my 36 years, and with that said I was as shocked and somewhat disappointed too when Hall was traded for anyone not named Subban or Doughty, but let’s get a little perspective.

    So to bitch and moan or personally attack Chia and or Larsson is akin to my 3 year old throwing a fit and calling me names when not getting ice cream with his dinner. While Hall shouldn’t have been the price this was us having to pay the piper for a decade of decay and terrible decisions, especially with the defence ( I’m looking at you Norris potential and trading Petry for peanuts McT). With that said its not like we got back a number 7 defenceman here. Larsson while we can all agree was a monumental cost was what this team sorely needs, someone who can actually play defence and get the puck to our forwards.

    It has actually made me sick to my stomach some of the Twitter posts people have continued to post regarding this trade. All it has done is make us look like a bunch of victims and whiners. Perspective is great, since we don’t even know what the final roster for this team will be, since we can all agree that for better or worse Chia isn’t done yet.

    So let’s move on, get over it and welcome our two new Oilers with open arms, since last time I checked Lucic and Larsson are both pretty good at this game called hockey. LETS GO OILERS!

  96. HenryDrix says:

    Sugar Reijo,

    The sum of in far outweighs the sum of out, Imo

  97. square_wheels says:

    Lowetide,

    Add that to the Lowetide-dictionary.

    Chicago’s 2nd driver is Hossa, that guy collects puck in the dzone (good luck taking it away from him) then transports it either with the correct pass or with those great wheels.

    Lucic reminds me of the older Hossa, less offence but elite at hauling the puck out of the D and into the O zone.

  98. HenryDrix says:

    Oilers8833,

    I could not agree more. And furthermore, speaking of sick and tired, I am sick and tired of not making the playoffs, of being the laughing stock of the league and of seeng our best offensive players getting hammered with no retribution in either blood or on the power play. Is our team better with Larsson and Lucic or with Hall and Demers. I don’t know for sure, but Chia is trying something different than the failing ways that have gotten us here. I for one have real optimism that these oilers, with one more solid D addition, will be a playoff team. Isn’t that what we all want? I don’t care too much about what the Lucic contract means in 5 yrs, I need playoffs this season, so does the city, the franchise and most importantly, all Oiler fans everywhere.

  99. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: So, finishing is an inside the zone word and pushing/driving is getting into the zone?

    That’s the way I see it.

    We need someone to write a dictionary and everyone to agree to the terms.

  100. digger50 says:

    cc:
    LT:I like Milan Lucic and Adam Larsson, but the Oilers lost Taylor Hall and $4 million in cap room to make this happen. What’s more, the team now has one forward who can push the river, and a plethora of well paid complementary (but effective) offensive wingers and pivots. Put another way, the thing that always made the Chicago Blackhawks special—Patrick Kane on one line and Marian Hossa on another—no longer applies in our city.

    … I’ve never been a huge fan Lucic but I recognize his ability as a power forward and the impact he can have in a teams line-up.Conversely, I’ve never been a huge Hall fan either (was always in the Sequin camp back then) and seemed to always focus on his turnover ratio verses his positives.

    I appreciate how much you liked Hall, how he could “push the river” in your words and how disappointing that you won’t see him find his success here in Oil Country. If Nuge or Ebs go I’ll feel the same way.But I disagree that we don’t have the up-front “Blackhawk Special” in our line-up.

    We have McDavid on one line who IMO will put more points on the board then Kane over the next 5 – 10 years and the word ‘Special’ just won’t be suffice.And Nuge is just coming of age,is a wizard with the puck, wins battle you would think he shouldn’t and perhaps will lead the best second line in the NHL.Yes we’re down 4million cap, but have acquired two terrific players, one in a critically need spot the other very likely putting 50+ points on the board along side McDavid.

    We’ll all miss Taylor in some ways, but dow the Hall we’ll be a far better team.Chin’s up gentlemen!

    “Likely Nuge is on his way out as well, next plan?

  101. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

    Neither. 🙂

    I don’t think the Oilers can train Jones on the job at 1RD and Hall was way too much to give up for Larsson

  102. flyfish1168 says:

    Ethan Bear signed

  103. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: That’s the way I see it.

    We need someone to write a dictionary and everyone to agree to the terms.

    For me, pushing the river (when I use it) means possession of the puck (no matter the area) and having an impact. Until today, I thought that was what driver meant. So, I will stick with my phrase (pushing the river) but be respectful of the differences between it and driver.

    And I thank you for the clarity!

  104. stevezie says:

    Professor Q,

    Ah, but Hall’s per game and best seasons are Better too 😉

    (Except goals. Johanson has scored 30. He’s good. Just, you know, not as.)

  105. stevezie says:

    Bling,

    I agree he just says it, but it is pretty accurate. Even if just talking rhD, by my count he is somewhere in the back quarter of the top 20.

    Now, it’s probably fair to bump him a few spots for age and contract, but still. He’s a non-elite puckmover who does well on defense and doesn’t produce points. A rich man’s Petry on a good contract.

    That’s valuable. But it ain’t Hall.

    Which most of us get so I’ll stop shouting.

  106. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Neither.

    I don’t think the Oilers can train Jones on the job at 1C and Hall was way too much to give up for Larsson

    And Severson, lol?

  107. Water Fire says:

    Woodguy:
    In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

    Johansen was 23, had been playing 1C (and RH) for 2.5 years and had scored 0.80pts/gm over that time.

    Jones, 21, has played only 3rd pair in his entire NHL career.Being behind Weber and Ellis on the right side will do that to you.He killed 3RD, but it was 3RD.He also played 2PP and 1PK.

    NAS was getting someone who showed he could score at an elite rate as a 1C.
    CBJ was buying “a bet on that Jones could play 1RD”

    In the EDM-NJD trade:

    EDM traded a 24 year old 1LW who’s been playing 1LW while scoring at .91pts/gm (what makes Hall special is that so many of those points are 5v5, which is the toughest to score at)

    NJD was trading a 23 year old who had played 1RD for the past two years.He has some of the best defensive metrics among D who play firsts, but he also played with Greene, so the bet is that he could continue to do so without Greene.Larsson plays 1PK and does not play PP.

    CBJ’s trade was a bet on a player’s future much, much more than EDM’s was.

    The thing with comparing metrics is that there is no benchmark as to who values what as far as trades.

    What I do know is that Hamilton and Jones are more offensive, and offense defines cost usually in the NHL.

    I think it is fair to say Larsson fell off his draft pedigree and his early career has not been regarded as stellar, and that is an opinion based on following hockey. I think GM opinions are what matter.

    I think it’s fair to say Hamilton was highly regarded, as Jones, and both came into the league and maintained that regard, where as Larsson was getting benched, demoted until this year mainly and not providing much offense.

    If Shero called up Chiarelli and said Larsson for Hall, would we expect that deal to get done?

    I like Larsson but there is no way to defend this IMO, It’s off and strange. It’s a bad deal and I hope Larsson makes me really like his play by keeping his defense and adding offense to make him a true #1 and Pete does no more stupid deals.

  108. Water Fire says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Water Fire,

    Hamilton has more standing?Evidence?

    My opinion

    Jon K: Do you remember the circumstances of the Hamilton trade? It was widely reported that Sweeney left significant value on the table to basically give Chiarelli the finger. There is zero value in Hamilton as a precedent.

    I don’t believe teams make trades to spite former employees.

  109. Water Fire says:

    JDï™: That was considered a horrible trade for the Bruins, but now it’s a bench mark for young, RHD value?

    As much as the likelihood Nurse gets Benn if he plays decent first pairing this year.

    Edit:
    Let’s change that to Severson gets Benn, he’s right hand and is more offensive than Larsson same age.

  110. Pouzar says:

    Water Fire: McDavid will be better but isn’t yet.

    I don’t think so Tim.

    McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now.
    Flame away but I’ll be on the other end in April ’17 sayin I told you so.

  111. godot10 says:

    Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

    http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

  112. Water Fire says:

    Pescador: Me too, but it’s especially bad because there is only 1 other guy in this town and he’s retired.

    Ha!

  113. Pouzar says:

    Love WG’s defn of Finisher vs Driver. Well done.

  114. Pouzar says:

    Lucic on twitter wearing a McDavid shirt…I mean that is the most awesomest thing EVER!!

    https://twitter.com/islandgirl6103/status/749254260630515712

  115. Water Fire says:

    If we see more seemingly lopsided trades as Hall’s I’ll get over this one, but I will be shocked if it happens.

    More Chiarelli lopsided trades don’t count. He’s made two doosies and has a mediocre first pair for his currently best player and a guy who can’t make the league for essentially two firsts. And I like both players but there it is.

    There needs to be a three strikes your out trade rule.

  116. spoiler says:

    godot10:
    Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

    http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

    I play this game through a few times a year. Have since I was a kid. Just love it.

  117. digger50 says:

    Oilers8833:
    First thanks Lowetide for being the voice of reason after all of this. I know I can always come to your blog to get some reasonable perspective on anything Oilers. Second is folks I’m a huge Oilers fan and have been for the better part of my 36 years, and with that said I was as shocked and somewhat disappointed too when Hall was traded for anyone not named Subban or Doughty, but let’s get a little perspective.

    So to bitch and moan or personally attack Chia and or Larsson is akin to my 3 year old throwing a fit and calling me names when not getting ice cream with his dinner. While Hall shouldn’t have been the price this was us having to pay the piper for a decade of decay and terrible decisions, especially with the defence ( I’m looking at you Norris potential and trading Petry for peanuts McT). With that said its not like we got back a number 7 defenceman here. Larsson while we can all agree was a monumental cost was what this team sorely needs, someone who can actually play defence and get the puck to our forwards.

    It has actually made me sick to my stomach some of the Twitter posts people have continued to post regarding this trade. All it has done is make us look like a bunch of victims and whiners. Perspective is great, since we don’t even know what the final roster for this team will be, since we can all agree that for better or worse Chia isn’t done yet.

    So let’s move on, get over it and welcome our two new Oilers with open arms, since last time I checked Lucic and Larsson are both pretty good at this game called hockey. LETS GO OILERS!

    What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

    Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

    This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center, Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

    Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

    I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

    Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

    So it’s really about personal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

  118. sliderule says:

    Taylor Hall was my favourite player from his draft until Connor.
    Even though a favorite I could see his flaws..
    In his own zone he never got involved.He would stick check and swoop but not engage and take the puck away.In own zone and neutral zone he was prone to careless turnovers.
    He tried but he just never understood defensive coverage .You would see him back check hard and then cover no one.
    Most of the posters seem to beleive at the draft you take BPA.and if you need to balance the roster you trade for it.The oilers have followed this policy and ended up with all forwards and no defence.It appears the rebalancing is tougher to when you are a 28 place team dealing with real general managers.
    The oilers had no choice but to trade one of their forward assets to try to rebalance their roster.
    Hall was their choice either for reasoning that he was the one they could less miss with Lucic to come or the only one other teams would take for a desirable right shot D.

  119. Jon K says:

    Woodguy:
    In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

    Johansen was 23, had been playing 1C (and RH) for 2.5 years and had scored 0.80pts/gm over that time.

    Jones, 21, has played only 3rd pair in his entire NHL career.Being behind Weber and Ellis on the right side will do that to you.He killed 3RD, but it was 3RD.He also played 2PP and 1PK.

    NAS was getting someone who showed he could score at an elite rate as a 1C.
    CBJ was buying “a bet on that Jones could play 1RD”

    In the EDM-NJD trade:

    EDM traded a 24 year old 1LW who’s been playing 1LW while scoring at .91pts/gm (what makes Hall special is that so many of those points are 5v5, which is the toughest to score at)

    NJD was trading a 23 year old who had played 1RD for the past two years.He has some of the best defensive metrics among D who play firsts, but he also played with Greene, so the bet is that he could continue to do so without Greene.Larsson plays 1PK and does not play PP.

    CBJ’s trade was a bet on a player’s future much, much more than EDM’s was.

    You’ve made a good argument to support the notion that Poile is one of the best trading GMs in the league. He sold high on Jones’ pedigree even though track record was beginning to show he wasn’t cut out to be a top pair high quality competition defender.

    Johansen’s value, despite being a lesser offensive player than Hall, is likely similar or greater by virtue of being a centre. He’s not the volume shooter Hall is but he’s arguably a better shooter qualitatively. His release is quite good.

    It’s not a popular notion but Larsson is a very valuable piece that fills an immense need. The trade might not have been great value but it’s positive impact will be noticeable as early as this year.

  120. Water Fire says:

    Pouzar: I don’t think so Tim.

    McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now.
    Flame away but I’ll be on the other end in April ’17 sayin I told you so.

    McDavid has yet to do, Hall as done. If he stays healthy I’m sure this season will change that.

    EDIT: Hall has done

  121. spoiler says:

    godot10:
    Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

    http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

    By the way for those who are curious, this is a much easier way to view the game. I recommend going move-by-move.

    https://www.chess.com/article/view/bobby-fischers-breakthrough-the-game-of-the-century

  122. Water Fire says:

    digger50: What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

    Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

    This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center,Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

    Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

    I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

    Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

    So it’s really aboutpersonal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

    I support this assessment. This trend has also been at the heart of why the team stays bad. A large number of posters here have said it thousands of times over the years as the Oilers blow their feet off, and it remains true.

  123. Lowetide says:

    digger50: What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

    Tell them to screw off. This is a place for venting, respectfully.

  124. Chris says:

    digger50: What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

    Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

    This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center,Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

    Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

    I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

    Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

    So it’s really aboutpersonal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

    i agree. The Oilers keep losing trades and making bad signing. These bad trades and bad signing are then used as the justification to make more bad trades and bad signing. It’s a rather tortured and horrifying circle of logic. Essentially because we did mind blowingly stupid things in the past we must continue to do mind blowingly stupid things to compensate.

    It’s the logic of borrowing oneself out of debt. It does not work. It simply creates a house of cards that will come crashing down to ever more misery.

  125. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: And Severson, lol?

    I think he’s not that far off Larsson. Worse defensively, better offensively.

  126. Woodguy says:

    Water Fire: The thing with comparing metrics is that there is no benchmark as to who values what as far as trades.

    What I do know is that Hamilton and Jones are more offensive, and offense defines cost usually in the NHL.

    I think it is fair to say Larsson fell off his draft pedigree and his early career has not been regarded as stellar, and that is an opinion based on following hockey. I think GM opinions are what matter.

    I think it’s fair to say Hamilton was highly regarded, as Jones, and both came into the league and maintained that regard, where as Larsson was getting benched, demoted until this year mainly and not providing much offense.

    If Shero called up Chiarelli and said Larsson for Hall, would we expect that deal to get done?

    I like Larsson but there is no way to defend this IMO, It’s off and strange. It’s a bad deal and I hope Larsson makes me really like his play by keeping his defense and adding offense to make him a true #1 and Pete does no more stupid deals.

    I’m not defending the trade.

    I was showing the difference between the two trades in my eyes.

  127. Woodguy says:

    Pouzar:
    Love WG’s defn of Finisher vs Driver. Well done.

    Thanks, have a half done post in the hopper from the spring that I might re-visit

  128. stevezie says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m pretty on board with that too. Really useful distinction.

  129. Woodguy says:

    Jon K: You’ve made a good argument to support the notion that Poile is one of the best trading GMs in the league. He sold high on Jones’ pedigree even though track record was beginning to show he wasn’t cut out to be a top pair high quality competition defender.

    Johansen’s value, despite being a lesser offensive player than Hall, is likely similar or greater by virtue of being a centre. He’s not the volume shooter Hall is but he’s arguably a better shooter qualitatively. His release is quite good.

    It’s not a popular notion but Larsson is a very valuable piece that fills an immense need. The trade might not have been great value but it’s positive impact will be noticeable as early as this year.

    Jones might be able to be a good 1RD, but I don’t know that because he had no track record at it.

    His 3RD track record was excellent.

    Long way from here to there though.

  130. stevezie says:

    godot10,

    That is a very generous was to describe it (though more accurate than most).

    Chess involves direct one on one competition. Hockey involves team building; asset management; money, potential, and decline considerations; and simultaneous competition between 30 teams.

    It’s different than chess.

    But yes, if we must use chess, queen sacrifice is the right analogy.

  131. stevezie says:

    digger50,

    Good point. But since we’re meta-venting, what bugs me is the bad thinking used to justify this trade and the almost certain inevitability of its backwards proponents feeling justified when the team (almost certainly) improves.

    1) Doing nothing was not the only alternative to this trade. I don’t disagree the D needed fixing, but just because we’re out of coolant doesn’t me we needed to kill a drifter and pour his blood into the radiator.
    We can only compare it to imaginary options, but I feel good saying this was a bad one. (If you have ever disliked a political decision you, too, feel comfortable making judgments against imagined alternatives. We all do.)

    2) Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.
    The apologies are perfect demonstrations of this. Losing this trade did not make it possible to sign Lucic, Losing this trade did not result in less injuries next year. Losing this trade did not develop McD, Davidson, Drai et al. another year.

    But the Oilers will almost inevitably improve a few points, and people will point and say, “See?”

    And all I’ll be able to do is sigh because if they don’t get it now, they probably won’t then.

  132. John Chambers says:

    stevezie,

    Where trading Hall might’ve been necessary is when you consider the diminished trade values of Nuge, Eberle, and anyone else who might’ve fetched a top-4 D in return.

    Everyone around the league can see that Eberle is an elite finisher but not an offense driver. Nuge’s value would’ve yielded Dumba and that just wasn’t satisfactory. I’d be surprised if Pouliot & Reinhart yielded Vatanen, while Barrie or Trouba might’ve come with larger cap hits and cost an Austin +.

    Hall was the only player whose trade value could be nearly fully realized. We still lost the trade but Larsson is a superior option to the aforementioned options.

  133. John Chambers says:

    The Queen gambit analogy is a very good one, Godot.

    This is a quality thread.

  134. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Too early to talk Captain and assistants? I think team goes different direction than last year with 3 new guys. Hopkins, Eberle and Hendricks are no locks to even be on the roster this time next year. Here’s my guesses:

    Captain – McDavid
    Assistants – M.Lucic and A.Sekera

    Thoughts?

  135. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Lowetide: Tell them to screw off. This is a place for venting, respectfully.

    Absolutely! Just don’t rub in “I told you so’s” mixed with rage and curse words or you will end up in the penalty box. Lol

  136. Professor Q says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes,

    Was there not a time where there were 3 assistant captains paired with a captain?

  137. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    digger50,

    “What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.”

    ‘Get over it’ comment is nowhere near as bad as the verbal thrashing I took 6 MONTHS ago suggesting Hall was “overrated” and suggested he should be considered to be moved in the offseason. It was brutal I left the site for a bit but came back and stuck to my guns (not literally). Funny how things ended up though.

    Your opinion is always welcome even if it is an unpopular one. I never mean to demean anyone I apologize if it offended you. I like jarring with GMONEY but am literally joking every time I do FTR.

  138. Lowetide says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes: Absolutely! Just don’t rub in “I told you so’s”mixed with rage and curse words or you will end up in the penalty box. Lol

    I have been there. 🙂

  139. Oilspill says:

    Henry:
    Well Demers is off the table.Strange that Chiarelli couldn’t beat $4.5M over 5 years.Maybe he just wanted to live in Miami over the winter.

    Have you looked at what we are already committed to at D? FAYNE/FERENCE alone 7+ mil

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