THE PRICE YOU PAY

One true thing I can tell you about my observing Peter Chiarelli over his time as GM of the Boston Bruins and Edmonton Oilers: He surprised me this week (and last summer during draft week) with his willingness to overpay for assets. There are two deals on his Edmonton resume that (I believe) show us a lot about his mindset.

  • Traded picks No. 16 and No. 33 to the NY Islanders for D Griffin Reinhart.
  • Traded Taylor Hall to New Jersey Devils for D Adam Larsson.

Since the Hall trade, this blog, twitter and most places I go to talk hockey have been in a constant state of anger, rage or turmoil. The proverbial Tower of Babel has us talking past each other, arguing about all manner of things and not really making progress. I think it might help to make a few statements I believe to be true, in an effort to see how much we can agree on.

  1. Adam Larsson is a solid young NHL defender with a promising future. One of the people I respect most in the game described Larsson as a solid 2-3D. His contract (in cap and term) allows the GM to wheel in other areas and the word balance can now be used openly in public gatherings. That is a lot of good.
  2. Milan Lucic is so good people talk about him as a type. ‘We need a Milan Lucic type’ people will say, at the corner market, liquor vendor or livery stable. As a Bruins fan, I know the power of Lucic as a player, and look forward to seeing him on the ice at the new arena.
  3. Peter Chiarelli is overpaying for these things, and there is reason to be concerned. Just because a team has all manner of assets does not mean the general manager can play fast and loose with the real gold. No matter how you feel about this week—and the additions are very nice—the years of Taylor Hall just sent away are very concerning. We need to acknowledge that, and by that I mean understanding in our own minds the price paid this summer to tunnel through to a respectable defense.

Those things said, and with the belief that the past informs the future, I think it is reasonable for us to assume Peter Chiarelli has at least one major move left in his musket. The new building, the pressure to move up the standings, the long list of issues for the second summer in a row—all have combined to produce what I think we can agree has been a major roster bloodletting. It isn’t over.

Note: I don’t post this to piss you off, but for me it is important to know the external forces at play here. How much upheaval can we expect, and are there overpays to come? Will these overpays impact this team’s ability to win the Stanley Cup?

On the other hand, there is real progress in some areas that have laid dormant for a long time. Can you tell me the last time the Oilers had a RHD with Adam Larsson’s resume and future? I am hopeful we can converse and exchange ideas without arguing across each other, which is the stuff of children. Thanks for reading.

DAY TWO FREE AGENCY

OIL ROSTER JULY 1

Only one addition from Day 2 in free agency, Ethan Bear signed his deal and is now the third actual RHD (Larsson, Fayne) on the roster—13 of them lefties. Bear and Caleb Jones are sliderules, so the roster—despite being 45 deep, is actually just 43 names for next season.

One item from today: Florida signed an astounding contract with Jason Demers, just fabulous. This means Edmonton will in fact pursue the puck-moving defender via trade, so let’s re-set the list:

  1. Tyson Barrie, Colorado Avalanche. Might cost the Nuge. Weird match.
  2. Jacob Trouba, Winnipeg Jets. If he shakes loose, Oilers may pounce.
  3. David Savard, Columbus Blue Jackets. Range of skills.
  4. Matt Dumba, Minnesota Wild. Has some nice things.
  5. Damon Severson, New Jersey Devils. A nice underlying option.
  6. Ryan Pulock, New York Islanders. Big shot from the point has high value.
  7. Ryan Murphy, Carolina Hurricanes. An attractive later choice.
  8. Brandon Montour, Anaheim Ducks. This could be a special player.
  9. Cody Franson, Buffalo Sabres. Hammer from the point.
  10. Dennis Wideman, Calgary Flames. A year removed from a fantastic offensive season.

While we are at it, let’s also re-set the men who are waiting for contracts—the ones who have ties to the Oilers and could be part of the future:

  1. R Jesse Puljujarvi, this should happen in the coming days. 2016 draft
  2. R Adam Cracknell, I could see him signing back mid-July. UFA.
  3. D Adam Pardy. At least worth a conversation. UFA.
  4. D Eric Gryba, without a Fayne trade, return seems unlikely. UFA.
  5. C Marco Roy. AHL contract seems likely. UFA.

We are running out of names, which means people are finding jobs. Josh Winquist is in the Islanders organization, Brad Hunt with the Blues.

TOMORROW

It may not be tomorrow, it could be July 15 or August 10 or five minutes from now. However, everything we have seen this week suggests Peter Chiarelli has been told (in the words of the great philosopher Izzy Mandelbaum) it is go time. Edmonton will finish drilling through this mountain of rock and find six good men and true to play NHL defense. I have no idea what the forwards will look like on that day.

 

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161 Responses to "THE PRICE YOU PAY"

  1. adamh1102 says:

    I worry greatly about trading another forward for that puck mover. Trading Nuge means an inexperienced top two Cs and Letestu at 3. Trading Eberle leaves a rookie as your top RW.

    I wish Chiarelli had taken the Lowetide approach and began his summer by signing Demers. He could have then completed the defense by only trading one of the forwards, and possibly even still doing that Hall/Lucic swap (Hall traded for a puck mover) if he really wanted.

    We’d have the forward group we do now along with a complete defense. Hall trade aside, that would make me feel much better than where we are now.

  2. square_wheels says:

    LT if this long rumoured Nuge for Barrie deal shakes down, who’s left in the group of UFA C’s worth signing ?

    Any RFA ‘s of interest ?

    Chris Kelly ? Hudler ?

  3. Ducey says:

    I don’t agree with you on the overpay for Larsson.

    In the current market, there doesnt appear (we don’t ever know) to be any other options to get a 1-2 RHD. Once Demers said no, or maybe, or whatever he said short of yes, where was the balance going to come from?

    “Overpay” means more than market value. In the current market for a good RHD it’s going to cost you a top winger.

    It cost Johansson for Jones.

    It is expensive.

    In your list of RHD I think you need to add Petrovic and Pysyk from FLA. They have too many righties.

  4. Lowetide says:

    square_wheels:
    LT if this long rumoured Nuge for Barrie deal shakes down, who’s left in the group of UFA C’s worth signing ?

    Any RFA ‘s of interest ?

    No UFAs that I can see (Pirri is the best available to my eye). RFAs? Lots, but that is a different matter (assets leaving).

  5. stephen sheps says:

    If you’re going to switch from Neil to the Boss, you couldn’t have chosen a better song to reference.

    Now they’d come so far and they’d waited so long
    Just to end up caught in a dream where everything goes wrong
    Where the dark of night holds back the light of the day
    And you’ve gotta stand and fight for the price you pay

    This is exactly what Chiarelli is dealing with, cleaning up the mess of someone else’s dream gone horribly wrong. Whether his choices lead to Stanley remains to be seen, but like Bruce says, you’ve gotta stand and fight.

    It may be sacrilege for me to say so around these parts but as much as I love Neil, but I think I like Springsteen even more.

    (For those unfamiliar with the song, listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-S02HKFRi8
    The River is just a monster of a double album in the middle of a legendary 6 record run – and the outtakes from this album alone are another double album that is almost as good as what was released)

  6. ATLOil says:

    Ducey,

    This.

  7. Younger Oil says:

    The more I think about it, the less of an overpay I think it is. Definitely an overpay, and using other assets to acquire Larsson would have been more desireable, but seems like it was Hall or nothing.

    My reasons?

    1. Oilers notoriously have less trade value and are undervalued by the league (snubbed for Calder, All Star lists, Team Canada, etc).

    2. RHD are arguably the highest valued assets in hockey.

    3. The past two seasons Hall has scored at approximately a 60-65 point pace. Just looking at the boxcars, many GM’s won’t value Hall as much as we do here, because 60-65 point wingers can be found for $6M/year every free agency.

    As Oiler fans, we see Hall daily and know what value he brings to the team. Other GM’s probably value Hall higher than Ebs or Nuge, but still don’t value Hall as highly as we do.

    I think we’d be dumb to think Chia didn’t do his due diligence and get the best player he could for Hall/Ebs/Nuge. It’s a steep price to pay, but we all know how badly we need defence, and anyone worse than Larsson would likely be in over their heads in the top pairing.

    Drafting 11 LHD and 1 RHD from 2010-14 made this deal necessary. Chia isn’t to blame for that. Draft Ristolainen instead of Nurse and this trade likely doesn’t need to happen. We all know how badly we needed a player like Larsson, and he will make a huge difference.

    For now, I think we need to wait at least two years before we criticize Chia for not just keeping Hall and trading Demers. Wait and see how all of Hall, Lucic, Larsson, and Demers do in the next two years, and see if the on ice product changes for the better like Chia thinks with his moves.

    Again, I still think it’s an overpay from an Oilers perspective, but those are my two cents as to why I think it is justifiable, and something we should wait a couple of years to fully assess.

  8. delooper says:

    There is a high probability you overpay whenever you make a transaction out of urgency. This is the NHL, it’s not Wal-Mart where everything has a price tag on it. Remember the Chris Pronger trade? If you have to make a trade, you almost always get burnt.

    I was really surprised to see my wife at a market in Kisumu, Kenya. Usually she’s pretty serene. But a part of her remembers the ferocious haggling she used to do when she was a kid. She really came alive at that market. So animated. The people in the market knew she was wealthy so they ramped-up the prices. That made her angry.

    The teams that can afford to make trades without any real urgency are the ones that least need the trades. Teams like LA and Chicago. When you’re established, you can let people come to you.

    The good thing is the Oilers are approaching some balance now. They could use a little more tweaking on the D but they’re in far better shape now than at this point last year.

  9. Snowman says:

    If Nuge goes for Barrie is the team any better? How confident are people in Leon? Not a lot of competent experienced Cs available to replace Nuge..Trading Nuge is a big gamble. It could be the riskiest gamble yet. I love Leon but trading Nuge is a bet on a young man that I don’t think Chia can afford to be wrong about. Without Nuge you are one injury away from having Mark Letestu playing 2C and Matt Hendricks playing 3C. You’ve got the horses on the wings now.. You have to make sure you’ve got enough skilled Cs to keep at least two lines humming even with injuries. Nuge isn’t the move to make and trading him would be a mistake.

    The only place with true depth is leftorium on D. I’d be fine with see Nurse go for Barrie or Trouba. I’d be fine seeing Reinhart plus whatever going for Barrie or Trouba.. I’d be fine with Davidson going for either of those two. I’d be perfectly happy with getting signing Wiz.

    You can’t borrow from the forward group anymore. Any move upfront leaves a big hole and carries risk.

    It’s gotta be a D or a package of D and minor pieces moving now.

  10. bobinyvr says:

    Regarding the “lunacy” of the Hall/Larsson trade I did notice this one thing …

    What do Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, Erik Gudbranson, Ryan Johansen, Nino Niederreiter, and Brett Connolly all have in common?

    The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th overall picks in 2010 NHL Entry Draft have now all been traded.

    Doesn’t ease the pain, but does give you pause.

  11. RexLibris says:

    I fought a long time against the idea of trading Hall because it just seemed so counter-productive.

    So if the Oilers are dead-set on a PP 2nd pairing RHD, and I think all the signs are pointing that way (in the not-so-subtle, Las Vegas, flashing neon fashion) then it seems like it’ll be Nugent-Hopkins who goes.

    We heard Dumba for RNH wasn’t a match in Chiarelli’s mind, and I’d wager Barrie is closer to it.

    If it is Trouba (a big, tough, RHD) I’d bet Chiarelli would be willing to overpay and add a LHD to the C he’d send out.

    Maybe I’m being reactionary, but it seems he’s overpaying because of the lackluster reputation many of these good young players have been saddled with due to their time in this organization.

  12. v4ance says:

    To me, I am most concerned about Chiarelli’s decision making process.

    In my estimation he is 1 for 3 on trading elite offensive talents.

    He won the Phil Kessel trade because the Leafs were so inept, the 2 1st rounders turned into Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. He lost the Seguin for Eriksson trade because he traded for a declining 60 pt player in exchange for a 70-80 point player. He lost the Hall trade on the altar of team balance.

    After the first trade, was he overconfident that he could keep trading the “best” player in a deal and still win the transaction in the end?

    I am a fan of Larsson. I was one of the boosters in 2011 who was in favor of choosing him over Nuge at 1st overall. That draft, there was a need for both a #1C and a defenceman and I was satisfied we filled one of those holes. Larsson’s numbers with Skelleftea always indicated that he wouldn’t be a major offensive producer but he does have some good puck moving skills.

    My question is why did the trade have to occur now? I know it indicated that we were out on Demers but then why not wait further into the offseason to see if the other teams would soften on their trade demands?

    The implicit bargain and intent of tearing it down to the foundation was to go from a middling below average team to a rock bottom team and gain elite talent(s). So now after wasting 6 years of that elite talent and we are still rock bottom, we trade one of those elite talents to go from rock bottom back to being an average team? Does anyone else see the insanity of this?

  13. delooper says:

    I don’t see an RNH for D trade happening, especially an offensive D-man. Trade away your #1 power-play guy for a D-man for the powerplay? That’s like cutting off your foot to trim your toenails.

  14. Ryan says:

    Ducey,

    The one area I’ve always respectfully disagreed with Lowetide in his insistence on ‘draft bpa.’

    Drafting ‘bpa’ does not account for the relative value of defensemen and centres over wingers. It does not.

    I am neither Chiarelli’s biggest fan nor detractor… Yet, I do not think he’s a buffoon. The market is the market… I am certain he tested the market and Hall for Larsson was what the market allowed.

    In other words, as my late father used to say, “shit or get off the pot.”

    Balance is a bitch.

  15. spoiler says:

    I am in two minds with regards to Grand Larssony 2016.

    Looking at the players, what they are today, this is an overpay.

    Looking at positions, our needs, and present market supply/demand, this deal is about what we would expect. Word is that we tried for Dumba and they wanted RNH and we wouldn’t go there. Word is we called on Ristoleinan and were immediately shut down, so to speak.

    I expect this dichotomy is what has Lowetidians so polarized.

    But I do have a question slash poll for the group…

    If one of the two had to go, would you rather see Hall traded or Nuge? Which is worse for the club?

  16. Younger Oil says:

    RexLibris:
    I fought a long time against the idea of trading Hall because it just seemed so counter-productive.

    So if the Oilers are dead-set on a PP 2nd pairing RHD, and I think all the signs are pointing that way (in the not-so-subtle, Las Vegas, flashing neon fashion) then it seems like it’ll be Nugent-Hopkins who goes.

    We heard Dumba for RNH wasn’t a match in Chiarelli’s mind, and I’d wager Barrie is closer to it.

    If it is Trouba (a big, tough, RHD) I’d bet Chiarelli would be willing to overpay and add a LHD to the C he’d send out.

    Maybe I’m being reactionary, but it seems he’s overpaying because of the lackluster reputation many of these good young players have been saddled with due to their time in this organization.

    Agreed, I’m sure Chia doesn’t want to pay as much as he does, but the history of the Oilers and past management mistakes has made it necessary.

    That being said, doing a trade like Nuge for Barrie, and signing Barrie for 5-6 years would mean we have an above average top 4, all signed for the next 5 years. That would be huge for this team.

    It would be like starting the rebuild the right way. Building from the back end, then bringing in young forwards through the draft.

    After all, defence wins championships.

  17. RexLibris says:

    spoiler:
    I am in two minds with regards to Grand Larssony 2016.

    Looking at the players, what they are today, this is an overpay.

    Looking at positions, our needs, and present market supply/demand, this deal is about what we would expect.Word is that we tried for Dumba and they wanted RNH and we wouldn’t go there.Word is we called on Ristoleinan and were immediately shut down, so to speak.

    I expect this dichotomy is what has Lowetidians so polarized.

    But I do have a question slash poll for the group…

    If one of the two had to go, would you rather see Hall traded or Nuge?Which is worse for the club?

    Of those two, I think at this moment you have to trade Hall because the C depth isn’t far enough along in their development to warrant entrusting it to McDavid and Draisaitl.

    The return is the return. We can’t change that and we have to make do with what we have.

    I sincerely hope that Chiarelli looks at this roster now and sees that his only remaining area of true depth is the LHD.

    I’m hoping he targets those assets, but am also now not so foolish as to think that he wouldn’t entertain Nugent-Hopkins in exchange for the “right” RHD.

  18. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    Springsteen is called the boss for a reason, love the topics he chooses – the working class, rust belt America, longing for things slightly out of reach, the folly of youth and young love.

    I can’t/won’t compare him to Neil as both are untouchable. Lists are for needs, sometimes in order of importance, but artistry should never ranked.

    Thankfully a Republican didn’t use Born in the USA again as a theme song, jeebus.

  19. blainer says:

    The Hall trade today is an overpay.. by xmas could be an underpay. this had to be done unfortunately. we are way more balanced today for sure.

    Just finished watching a lot of highlights of Rantanen in order to compare him to Puly .. IMO Puly is a much better skater with a better release and strong on the D side of the puck. I can defiantly see Puly playing point on the PP. Again its just a long look but boy does Puly look good playing against men.

    I wonder if that is not on the mind of Chia in his pursuit of a RT shot D for the PP.

    Hope they start him in the A but will understand if he makes the team out of camp after playing so much against men already.

    As Chia has said in the past if he makes the team it can still change after 10 game segments so they can always send him to the A if he struggles.. a great option for a change.

  20. LadiesloveSmid says:

    What centres do you look at if RNH is dealt? Bozak wouldn’t be a bad option if they kept their 3 Cs, think it’d need to be a centre that could cover 2C if Drai took a step back without his driver. In the Backlund/Nielsen mould?

  21. delooper says:

    You definitely trade Hall over Nugent-Hopkins. Wingers are readily obtainable. Maybe none exactly like Hall, but centres and D-men are the glue that hold teams together. With a solid core of centres and D-men you can have a good team, with replacement-level wingers.

  22. square_wheels says:

    Ryan,

    Agree. In the Oil & Gas world you see this phenomenon in land sales. A small company raises a bunch of cash and outbids us for some land we happened to love, but they had it valued much higher than we did because it was critical to their business plan and thus, their investors. We can scoff all friggin day that Peyto paid too much for Deep Basin dirt but when their market cap is 5B and ours is a 1/4 of that……well it was going well for them for a long time, but now their “all in” strategy for gas/liquids makes them vulnerable to price volatility. But for 5 years people thought they were the best run company in Calgary.

    Simply put, I want a dynasty as bad as anyone, but will settle for a club that gets into the playoffs consistently for 5 years before injuries, contracts and the next cap fuck it all up again.

    Btw you been grinding out some mountain bike miles ?

  23. Halfwise says:

    Good friends of ours paid a lot of money for a house just off Ada Boulevard in Highlands back in the day. I think it cost them almost $75,000; our house near Mill Creek was about as nice for about $60k. Time proved them right but there were no guarantees at the time.

    Chiarelli paid dearly for Larsson. From what I can discern from Rickistats, the Oilers finally have a low-scoring defenseman capable of helping them outscore top opposition. Maybe NJ was so committed to playing Larsson 25 minutes a night at EV and PK that they kept him off the PP, or maybe he can’t PP at the NHL level, we’ll see.

    But the price is what intrigues me, specifically how we feel about Taylor Hall as well as objectively what he does as an all star, elite LW. He represents years of derision and pity from people in Calgary and Vancouver directed at us ELPH fans. He was the H in H.O.P.E. He was the here and now best player on the ice on many dark nights.

    So the price was real present greatness in return for someone whose great strength leads to preventing excitement among the fans of other teams. That strength is still developing, but a certain persistent bear insists it exists already.

    I imagine, as others have, that Chia’s preference would have been sign Demers, keep Hall, pursue Lucic. (Maybe that’s just me having been conditioned by reading this excellent blog). The timing of the trade and the Chia reaction at the presser when Demers’ name was mentioned lead me to believe that Demers would not commit when Chia wanted him to commit and Chia needed to make a decision on Lucic, who was ready to commit.

    The Oilers could have ended up with no Demers, no Larsson, no Lucic as of July 2. People would be calling for Chia’s head. Oilers would still have Hall, but to close out my analogy my friends from 1976 might still have $73,000 ready to spend and no $75k house just off Ada Blvd.

    The price was dear, but they took the plunge and never looked back. I’m ready to do that now.

  24. flyfish1168 says:

    I think and feel we need to start looking at trading out a LHD for another RHD. I don’t feel we have enough deep and reliable forwards that can produce without Hall. Start with moving GR. JMHO

  25. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels:
    stephen sheps,

    Springsteen is called the boss for a reason, love the topics he chooses – the working class, rust belt America, longing for things slightly out of reach, the folly of youth and young love.

    I can’t/won’t compare him to Neil as both are untouchable. Lists are for needs, sometimes in order of importance, but artistry should never ranked.

    Thankfully a Republican didn’t use Born in the USA again as a theme song, jeebus.

    Absolutely, both are untouchable – but given the fixation on Neil around these parts (and my 3 day off and on chat with ‘steve smith’ about Neil), I figured I needed to give the Boss a bit of love.

    They are two of the most important rock musicians of our time, and the fact that at their ages, they are still making new music that doesn’t suck (*cough Rolling Stones cough*) and their classics are still just as vital is incredible. Wasn’t trying to rank, just stating a personal preference. I save my entirely arbitrary but nevertheless still fun music rankings for an annual top 25 records of the year list I put out every christmas – something I suppose I could leave here in future years but had never actually thought to do.

    Of course both of these musicians are well before my time – I got into them both as a teenager in the 90s, when Neil became fashionable again (and Bruce was assuredly not).

    I love how Reagan tried to take an anti-war song and turn it into a populist anthem, much like so many have tried to do with Rockin in the Free World, which is a very cynical song about the vast social inequality at the end of the 80s despite the calls for the ‘end of history’ after the Berlin Wall fell. In both cases the chorus lends itself to misinterpretation, but it’s still funny how many get the meanings of each song wrong. If you haven’t heard the acoustic version of Born in the USA (actually a Nebraska outtake released on the Tracks box set), you need to!

  26. square_wheels says:

    LadiesloveSmid,

    If Drai takes a step back push him to the wing and hope there’s a magical 3C that can find some chemistry with Yak.

    Or does Yak get traded for said 3C ???

    I still think there’s a deal to work with Anaheim, who havent signed lindholm yet because they need to make room …..but Fowler and his impending UFA status make the return meh.

  27. Woogie63 says:

    Three things,

    1) You build a team from the backend and then down the middle, but not usually from the wings.

    2) McDavid is the first 1OV we are building a team around. Hall, RNH and poor Yakupov were all thrown in to the deep end with no good vets to help them reach their potential.

    3) McDavid is surrounded with very good vets (Lucic, Eberle, Larsson, Sekera, Marroon, and Hendrickson), that he will mention when he is inducted to the Hall of Fame. I would not under estimate the value of 42 nights of watch hockey and spending time with a quality individual like Andrew Ference.

  28. Edmonton_fan says:

    McJesus is our ticket to a Stanley Cup. Why do some posters forget that McDavid was grabbed by his pants, dragged down then piled on by two Philadelphia players as they crushed him into the boards breaking his clavicle on November 3? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z3YfNMBXc0

    This was Nurse’s 6th NHL game over two seasons; as a rookie, he was just learning his role on the team.

    Darnell Nurse will be the Oiler’s deterrent from here on in… He destroyed Calgary’s Rasmus Anderson in last season’s Young Guns game. When Calgary sent their 6′ 7” goon Hunter Smith after Nurse for revenge in the pre-season, Nurse handily beat him.

    When 6′ 3” 235 lb Lucic got in Nurse’s way, Darnell stepped forward, lost but held his own. When Ottawa’s part-time NHL’er tried to push Nurse around, Darnell destroyed Max McCormick. When Nurse thought Roman Polak cheap shotted Matt Hendricks, Darnell almost killed him netting a 3 game suspension. Not one San Jose player was willing to defend their teammate, so they brought their AHL goon Michael Haley up the next game to fight Darnell; he did not back down.

    Lucic on the wing; Nurse playing defense against the goon teams. I am comfortable with this!

  29. Ryan says:

    square_wheels:
    Ryan,

    Agree. In the Oil & Gas world you see this phenomenon in land sales. A small company raises a bunch of cash and outbids us for some land we happened to love, but they had it valued much higher than we did because it was critical to their business plan and thus, their investors. We can scoff all friggin day that Peyto paid too much for Deep Basin dirt but when their market cap is 5B and ours is a 1/4 of that……well it was going well for them for a long time, but now their “all in” strategy for gas/liquids makes them vulnerable to price volatility. But for 5 years people thought they were the best run company in Calgary.

    Simply put, I want a dynasty as bad as anyone, but will settle for a club that gets into the playoffs consistently for 5 years before injuries, contracts and the next cap fuck it all up again.

    Btw you been grinding out some mountain bike miles ?

    Yes, I’ve been out grinding some miles on the Specialized Epic comp carbon.

    I also believe that Chiarelli didn’t turn down a Faulk, Hedman or Doughty trade straight across for Hall.

  30. BlueNoteNorth says:

    I can live with the trade. I will miss watching Hall. But the alternative of enterring next season without any significant improvement in the defence would have been unacceptable. An overpay? Yes. But building through the middle is key. Wingers are the easier piece to add. When the team is ready, a Hossa-style addition is doable.

    I believe Chiarelli has one more move brewing. Telling Gryba’s camp that while he is interested he cannot commit at this time suggests another D.

  31. Sugar Reijo says:

    Ryan:
    Ducey,

    Balance is a bitch.

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Seriously, put an Oiler logo beside that and it’s a bumper sticker I’d buy.

    As for Nuge I’d really like them to hang onto him unless the return is Barrie. Doubt Colorado does that though. So I’d be happy with a guy like Wisniewski as a bandaid PP solution.

  32. Water Fire says:

    Demers signed cheap, he was available

  33. Lowetide says:

    spoiler:
    I am in two minds with regards to Grand Larssony 2016.

    Looking at the players, what they are today, this is an overpay.

    Looking at positions, our needs, and present market supply/demand, this deal is about what we would expect.Word is that we tried for Dumba and they wanted RNH and we wouldn’t go there.Word is we called on Ristoleinan and were immediately shut down, so to speak.

    I expect this dichotomy is what has Lowetidians so polarized.

    But I do have a question slash poll for the group…

    If one of the two had to go, would you rather see Hall traded or Nuge?Which is worse for the club?

    For me it is Hall. I think Nuge, as a center, holds more value. I absolutely know most will not agree, and also admit to personal bias.

  34. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    Did you and Steve get into how good Young/Pearl Jam’s Mirrorball album is ?

    One of my personal favourite NY songs is I’m the Ocean, love how it builds.

  35. square_wheels says:

    Ryan,

    Nice ride.

  36. Lowetide says:

    One thing we will be talking about (or could be) next winter: If Edmonton gets off to a great start, Chiarelli will be a genius. That said, a healthy Oilers team would do far better than last year’s team just because of that one thing. No one to blame, just an observation. Hall, who gave everything he had, is cast as the problem in some circles, and the GM has to move heaven and earth to make that true.

    I will never believe it. A good defense and reasonable goaling (another issue for a long time while he was here) sewered the relationship.

  37. Halfwise says:

    Water Fire:
    Demers signed cheap, he was available

    Technically this is true but it doesn’t tell us much.

    He signed on the second day of UFA, which is odd for the top UFA at his position. What did he tell Chiarelli when they met earlier in the week? What other teams was he going to see and what other offers had been floated already?

    What could Chiarelli count on when from Demers, knowing he had a Larsson deal that was likely contingent on making a commitment to Lucic?

  38. Woogie63 says:

    LT

    Could Cody Cece, Michael Stone or Connor Murphy be added to your list.

    I also think Dennis Wideman is a nice fit and is a very good human who clearly made a very bad choice, and might benefit from a change of scenery.

  39. square_wheels says:

    Woogie63,

    Dennis lives across the street from a good buddy/coworker, he’s a great guy. Wouldn’t be a locker room distraction. His contract kinda sucks but if he’s healthy (Cgy shut him down early but we watched him haul giant boxes into his truck to drive home before the regular season ended).

    Retained salary he would be serviceable.

  40. Gordies Elbow says:

    Water Fire:
    Demers signed cheap, he was available

    Signed cheap for Florida, which doesn’t mean he would have been cheap here.

    Taxes are higher here, climate is worse, and maybe his S-O wants to continue her career in the US (musical actress.)

  41. OilSafety says:

    What rhd would Reinhart and our 2017 1st get us? Barrie? Vatenin? Fowler?

    I could live with losing those assets. Can’t stand the thought of losing nuge and eberle looks to be too hard to replace at this point in the off season.

  42. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels,

    We never did, but I love Mirror Ball. Pearl Jam is one of my all time favourite bands and they were the perfect fit to back him. I would have given anything to see that tour back in ’95, but I was far too young and they never came to Canada.

    The Merkin Ball EP from that same recording session has two of the best PJ songs ever. Neil’s solo on I Got Shit (commonly known as I Got ID) still gives me chills.

  43. BONVIE says:

    Did a read this right that Islanders signed Winquist? That is very disheartening since he was one of the only guys playing forward on the farm last year with any significant offensive potential.

    If Dan Boyle is still available I think he would be a great add if he is reasonable for a one year.

  44. Sugar Reijo says:

    square_wheels:
    Woogie63,

    Dennis lives across the street from a good buddy/coworker, he’s a great guy. Wouldn’t be a locker room distraction. His contract kinda sucks but if he’s healthy (Cgy shut him down early but we watched him haul giant boxes into his truck to drive home before the regular season ended).

    Retained salary he would be serviceable.

    I wouldn’t mind Wideman at all.

    Added bonus: could be Yak’s Semenko

  45. Ryan says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing we will be talking about (or could be) next winter: If Edmonton gets off to a great start, Chiarelli will be a genius. That said, a healthy Oilers team would do far better than last year’s team just because of that one thing. No one to blame, just an observation. Hall, who gave everything he had, is cast as the problem in some circles, and the GM has to move heaven and earth to make that true.

    I will never believe it. A good defense and reasonable goaling (another issue for a long time while he was here) sewered the relationship.

    You know who saw our Hall trade coming from a mile away?

    Our friend Andrew aka DSF.

    https://dcbdotme.wordpress.com/2016/05/21/good-grief-3/#comments

  46. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    I happened to see PJ on the VS tour in Edm, Dave A on drums. Unquestionably my favourite PJ album.

    Went to Soundgarden on the Superunknown tour as well.

  47. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Nice write-up LT however I’m a little disappointed because I think you missed one important point:

    4. Fact – Chiarelli used a similar approach in Boston in building them into a Championship team. He even traded away his Top scorer in Kessel and they won the cup the following year. Say what you want but he built a winner. No one can deny that. He looks for certain ‘pieces’ and removes the ones that don’t fit for whatever reason. You can argue all you want about perceived ‘value’ but one things for sure he’s not afraid to pull the trigger if he thinks it’s best for the team. You have to assume he knows what he’s doing because he’s done it before and hoisted the Cup. Hasn’t he at least earned our benefit of the doubt? Most of our previous GM’s have been clueless. Chia is a Stanley Cup winning GM.

    This point cannot be overlooked. Who cares what any of us think. The guy has a formula and it has worked who are we to question his methods? We have not had a Stanley Cup winning GM since when? There’s a famous saying ‘if you listen to the fans in the stands you’ll be one yourself soon enough.” He thinks his team is better off with Larsson and Lucic and so do I. How else was he going to acquire a Top RHD? Do we know what the actual MARKET was?

    It’s easy to be an armchair GM it’s not to be a real GM and one that’s built a winner. Trust the man with the plan.

    Re: Reinhart – the book is still out on him. Chia may still look like a genius give the kid time.

  48. Cyanide says:

    Adam Larsson had 17 even strength points last yr. That would have led the Oilers. (Sekera had 15)

    Now I think it is safe to say Larsson will get more points as an Oiler.

    I have also been watching as many highlights as I can on this kid, he seems to have a nose in the offensive zone. I think playing in the Jersey system they reined him in a bit on the offensive side.
    He alluded to it in his interviews after the trade. He also played the power play on his teams in Sweden.
    His shot doesn’t look horrible. Its not the hardest, but he has a habit of getting it through often.

    Although not the greatest fighter in the world (ok he’s horrible at it). HE will stand up for a teammate when he has to.

    I like the kid. He will prosper on the Oilers, I truly believe that.

    And for all you guys out there that think Chia only goes after Adams, his real name is Nils. 8)

    Edit: led oilers Dmen in points, sorry

  49. Rosco says:

    Halfwise:
    I imagine, as others have, that Chia’s preference would have been sign Demers, keep Hall, pursue Lucic. (Maybe that’s just me having been conditioned by reading this excellent blog). The timing of the trade and the Chia reaction at the presser when Demers’ name was mentioned lead me to believe that Demers would not commit when Chia wanted him to commit and Chia needed to make a decision on Lucic, who was ready to commit.

    As the kids would say… Boom, nailed it. (I don’t know if they actually say that, mine are 3 and 5 and babble incoherently)

    I would agree whole heartedly; Chia’s job was to find that d-man. Prob thought he had Demers (similar skill set to Larsson) in on the plan and he had a change of heart. Or couldn’t / wouldn’t commit to the point Chia had confidence in having both he and Lucic locked up prior to July 1st. If that occurred, the cold realization of actually having to deal Hall prob set in and lordy would not have felt real good the day it happened. If he did not land the RHD and went ahead with signing Lucic, the oilers would once again be sitting there with so many forwards and no defence to get the puck up to them.

    Loved Hall as a player and thank him for being the sole entertainment on some very dull and uninspired nights. But more than happily welcome what looks to becoming a more balanced and competitive team.

  50. stush18 says:

    Woah LT. what happened to winquist?

  51. v4ance says:

    Btw, I know Benning is lost but what the heck!

    30 year old Loui Eriksson for 6 years at $6 million? It’s almost as if he’s in denial that the Sedin twins are 35 and he’s staring down the barrel of a rock bottom rebuild in 2 years!

    Man, I’m sure happy the Canucks have him at the helm. Their fans’ tears will taste delicious!

  52. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Why would the Avs want Nuge? To play 3 hole for 6 million? Not going to happen. My guess is that Avs want Klef or Nurse. I’m over the Hall trade. Didn’t like it at first but the more I think back to Hall’s time here I’m ok with it. I threw more beer cans at the TV watching Hall than anyone else with his epic turnovers, its not like Hall won us a lot of games in the third period or in overtime(did that ever happen?), He doesn’t kill penalties, block shots, win faceoffs or hit anyone.

  53. HenryDrix says:

    Sounds like people are starting to warm to Petey C’s moves. I have no doubt he tried to pay a lesser price in each of his trades than he has made. I give him credit for not just trying to improve the team but for doing it despite the criticism he surely knew was coming. That tells me is a smart hockey man with the guts to follow through with his convictions. Here is hoping the Larsson trade looks superb in 2 yrs time, and to a winning record in 2017.

  54. Water Fire says:

    spoiler:
    I am in two minds with regards to Grand Larssony 2016.

    Looking at the players, what they are today, this is an overpay.

    Looking at positions, our needs, and present market supply/demand, this deal is about what we would expect.Word is that we tried for Dumba and they wanted RNH and we wouldn’t go there.Word is we called on Ristoleinan and were immediately shut down, so to speak.

    I expect this dichotomy is what has Lowetidians so polarized.

    But I do have a question slash poll for the group…

    If one of the two had to go, would you rather see Hall traded or Nuge?Which is worse for the club?

    I think Hall is a bigger loss because Nuge isn’t a dangerous scorer, and that limits his level as a player.

    Nuge can be replaced by a wide range of players, his skills aren’t exclusive, Hall cannot.

    That being said, as it stands right now losing any centre is a bigger hardship for the Oilers.

  55. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels,

    I was also at the Soundgarden show. First show I ever went to at the Shaw, maybe my 2nd show ever at that point in my life other than a couple all ages punk shows at the Bronx before it became the Rev.

    Vs. is great, bought the cassette the day it came out, but Vitalogy is always going to be my favourite. Would’ve been incredible to see them in that era. Sadly I had to wait until 2002, but it was worth the wait.

    (Apologies for the music talk everyone else. The hot takes and hyperbole surrounding the Hall trade and really everything that’s happened over the last few days just isn’t all that much fun anymore but I still like chatting with y’all – this is just where I’m at with it…)

  56. Younger Oil says:

    I can’t see anything about Winquist to the Isles, checked Google, TSN, and Twitter of all potential parties, don’t see anything.

  57. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Why would the Avs want Nuge?To play 3 hole for 6 million?Not going to happen.My guess is that Avs want Klef or Nurse.I’m over the Hall trade.Didn’t like it at first but the more I think back to Hall’s time here I’m ok with it. I threw more beer cans at the TV watching Hall than anyone else with his epic turnovers,its not like Hall won usa lot of games in the third period or in overtime(did that ever happen?), He doesn’t kill penalties, block shots, win faceoffs or hit anyone.

    You’re bang on and how would Hall’s game and style translate in the playoffs? I refuse to believe Chia trades Hall not knowing he already had Looch in the bag. I know what Lucic can do in the playoffs and I’d rather have that than the unknown. Add Larsson and I’m already at the point where I say … Taylor who?

  58. Rondo says:

    There can be only 1 alpha male in the locker room Hall needed to go and this was the best they could do at the time. Peter C is changing the environment. This Connor’s team now.

  59. Rosco says:

    What is all this talk about Landeskog along with Barrie possibly being available? Is that just media spitballing or something a little more legitimate? The ominous tweets going around about the Oil and Avs saying it “close” and the potential to be big leads me to believe that it may be possible. Of course, I’m a sucker for these things.

    Eberle, Nurse and 2017 1st?

  60. Rondo says:

    v4ance,

    I think he is a present for the Sedin’s they have given a lot to the Canucks

  61. Bad Seed says:

    stephen sheps:
    square_wheels,

    I was also at the Soundgarden show. First show I ever went to at the Shaw, maybe my 2nd show ever at that point in my life other than a couple all ages punk shows at the Bronx before it became the Rev.

    Vs. is great, bought the cassette the day it came out, but Vitalogy is always going to be my favourite. Would’ve been incredible to see them in that era. Sadly I had to wait until 2002, but it was worth the wait.

    (Apologies for the music talk everyone else. The hot takes and hyperbole surrounding the Hall trade and really everything that’s happened over the last few days just isn’t all that much fun anymore but I still like chatting with y’all – this is just where I’m at with it…)

    Love Soundgarden and went to that show too. Opening with Jesus Christ Pose was awesome. Too bad Superunknown was a dud compared to Badmotorfinger, Still can’t warm up to it.

  62. Tarkus says:

    square_wheels:
    stephen sheps,

    I happened to see PJ on the VS tour in Edm, Dave A on drums. Unquestionably my favourite PJ album.

    There are some fine songs on that album–especially “Elderly Woman Behind the Counter in a Small Town”, which I always sing (horribly) to when I’m driving–but my favorite actual PJ album is Vitalogy. It gets bizarre in places (“Bugs” is a something only Eddie Vedder can pull off), but that’s what I dig about that album, how eclectic it is.

    I would just like to point out the title of this morning’s first post was brought to you by Genesis (not the Sega variety), from the album The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. For those unfamiliar, it was a concept album that ended up being Peter Gabriel’s last hurrah before embarking on his solo career.

    I first heard The Lamb over two decades ago in my university days. And much like Pearl Jam with Vitalogy, The Lamb was Genesis stretching out their sound. (The immediate example that comes to mind is “The Waiting Room”, a sound collage like a more tuneful “Revolution 9”.) There’s also a libretto that Gabriel penned to go along with the album; the CD version has it, but I haven’t been able to find an online link to it yet.

  63. Oilman138 says:

    Cyanide your drunk… oh wait, thats me.

    Losing Taylor Hall sucks. Getting Larson doesnt suck. Getting Lucic doesnt suck.
    We still have amazing pieces on this team, really good hockey players.

    If the oilers start the season with an actual idea of what they want to be as a team, and the right players to do what the coach thinks is necessary to win, maybe there is a chance at some good hockey this season, something to build on. Less hope and more W’s.

    I cant justify the trade as a one off, i do believe the ends can justify the means, as long as their is a plan and it isnt just change for the sake of change.

    I love being an oilers fan (i secretly might hate myslef, it is as yet undetermined) I will be excited for the start of a new season, as i am every year. I love the players that play this game, I love teams that have an identity, win or lose. I am ready to start cheering for this team, not just some of the players on it.

    Wheres my beer.

  64. Lowetide says:

    Oilman138:
    Cyanide your drunk… oh wait, thats me.

    Losing Taylor Hall sucks. Getting Larson doesnt suck. Getting Lucic doesnt suck.
    We still have amazing pieces on this team, really good hockey players.

    If the oilers start the season with an actual idea of what they want to be as a team, and the right players to do what the coach thinks is necessary to win, maybe there is a chance at some good hockey this season, something to build on. Less hope and more W’s.

    I cant justify the trade as a one off, i do believe the ends can justify the means, as long as their is a plan and it isnt just change for the sake of change.

    I love being an oilers fan (i secretly might hate myslef, it is as yet undetermined) I will be excited for the start of a new season, as i am every year. I love the players that play this game, I love teams that have an identity, win or lose. I am ready to start cheering for this team, not just some of the players on it.

    Wheres my beer.

    I enjoyed your movie, despite the singing, Mr. Eastwood.

  65. Gordies Elbow says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes,

    Speaking to the “style of play,” the Oilers are moving to more of a cycle-possession team with Lucic. McLellan likes his puck retrievers, and the addition of Maroon and Lucic to Pouliot makes it easier to play his style of game.

    Losing Hall means the team isn’t as effective on the rush, but likely will have stronger cycle play with better possession in the offensive zone. This matches the style of “Place and Chase” that McLellan and gang are aiming for.

  66. Lowetide says:

    Rosco:
    What is all this talk about Landeskog along with Barrie possibly being available? Is that just media spitballing or something a little more legitimate? The ominous tweets going around about the Oil and Avs saying it “close” and the potential to be big leads me to believe that it may be possible. Of course, I’m a sucker for these things.

    Eberle, Nurse and 2017 1st?

    I would say the rumors are somewhere between the moon and New York City, and the best you can do (the best that you can do) is get Ducheeeene.

  67. NF Oiler says:

    Something that is not talked about much of the hall trade is Larssons contract…awesome value for five years.like klefbom both are great deals for top 4 d…..:check out comparables a lot of which are not as good as larsson

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/cap-comparables-seth-jones-stacks-nhl-peers/

  68. Gordies Elbow says:

    “Todd McLellan was extremely frustrated (some quotes below, but the entire post-game is golden), but today I want to take a quick trip into the past—in order to inform the future. We are over 60 games into the NHL season and I think we can reach a major conclusion: Todd McLellan is going to play the style he prefers, and by next season we should see a team that represents his style. The Oilers, as they are currently compiled, are not an ideal McLellan team—and he hasn’t altered his ‘place and chase’ style—to suit this team’s skills—as much as we might have hoped in year one. I think this means an airlift of role players prepared to place and chase, forecheck, cover and battle—at the cost of skill.” Lowetide G60

    Lovely article.

    “Heading out will be names like Justin Schultz, Teddy Purcell, maybe Matt Hendricks. Coming in? We wait, but the general idea is Hamonics and Boyles and Lucicis. If not those exact names, then similar in style and intent.”

    Boyle still available? 🙂

  69. Water Fire says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing we will be talking about (or could be) next winter: If Edmonton gets off to a great start, Chiarelli will be a genius. That said, a healthy Oilers team would do far better than last year’s team just because of that one thing. No one to blame, just an observation. Hall, who gave everything he had, is cast as the problem in some circles, and the GM has to move heaven and earth to make that true.

    I will never believe it. A good defense and reasonable goaling (another issue for a long time while he was here) sewered the relationship.

    Truth.

  70. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    I’m with you in needing a small break from the intense trade, Lucic and Hall chat, we’ve got to give Chia the summer.

    Bronx/Rev was my hang as well, I lived over on 113. One of those 2 shows The Reverend Horton Heat opened, Love me some southern rockabilly with a giant red standup base and a cig in the vocalist’s mouth the entire time. So many memorable shows from that era, the Smalls at Polish Hall, the Cadillac Tramps at Bronx, fuse-ball tourney every Saturday night in a random east side pizza joint that served minors ( that place was across from the Boston Pizza at Gretzky Drive/98 Ave).

  71. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    You may have heard me say this once or a thousand times but a Nuge for Jenner and Savard trade would not hurt my feelings AT ALL. What else would it cost us. Fayne? Caleb Jones?

    If we could get just Savard without giving up Nuge that would work too. A nice writeup on Savard awhile back:

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2016/04/off-season-targets-david-savard/

  72. Lowetide says:

    Gordies Elbow:
    “Todd McLellan was extremely frustrated (some quotes below, but the entire post-game is golden), but today I want to take a quick trip into the past—in order to inform the future. We are over 60 games into the NHL season and I think we can reach a major conclusion: Todd McLellan is going to play the style he prefers, and by next season we should see a team that represents his style. The Oilers, as they are currently compiled, are not an ideal McLellan team—and he hasn’t altered his ‘place and chase’ style—to suit this team’s skills—as much as we might have hoped in year one. I think this means an airlift of role players prepared to place and chase, forecheck, cover and battle—at the cost of skill.” Lowetide G60

    Lovely article.

    “Heading out will be names like Justin Schultz, Teddy Purcell, maybe Matt Hendricks. Coming in? We wait, but the general idea is Hamonics and Boyles and Lucicis. If not those exact names, then similar in style and intent.”

    Boyle still available? 🙂

    Bah! Who was that guy???

  73. stevezie says:

    Pearl Jam is the best band of all time, says I, and I Got Id is one of both their and Neil’s best songs. Gold, Jerry.

    Also i like Superunknown, but i can see why an old fan would stay cold to it.

  74. square_wheels says:

    Bad Seed,

    Badmotorfinger is so awesome ! Alice in Chains thankfully carried the heavier genre torch as Soundgarden went mainstream.

    Now that’s a band worth a long discussion……Staley/Cantrell were incredible, but that fucking heroin just wouldn’t leave Layne alone.

  75. Centre of attention says:

    I am trying to analyze Larssons play via video, and I can say I am more impressed than I thought I would be. Watching video clips only gives so much, but Adam always seems to be in the right spot, he has a massive wing span and can get in the way beautifully with great gap control. He has poise with the puck too, making effective passes.

    The trade was awful, I think its fair for us to bitch about that but lets try and cheer for Larsson instead of permanently shunning him because he was the return for Hall. I know that’s almost impossible but I ask my fellow fans to at least try and appreciate Larsson as a player.

    I think once people here see him play more (I’m trying to watch as much video as possible) they will be pleasantly surprised with his simple, effective play. No Jultz poke-checks or grenade passes to be seen.

    I am encouraged that Chiarelli at least has a plan, a clear direction and he will stop at nothing to accomplish his goals. I am also encouraged by the drafting under his watch. Lets hope some of these positives shine threw, no use endlessly wondering what ifs. The dice have been cast.

  76. square_wheels says:

    stevezie,

    Can I place half my million points on Fugazi and the other half on nearly everything from the UK that came out from 1970 to 1984.

    the Clash, if you won’t split my vote.

  77. russ99 says:

    I think Eberle is the next to go with Draisaitl, Puljujarvi and as a stopgap Yak to take his place at 1RW with little falloff, and it also clears cap for bonuses and eventually McDavid’s re-up,

    We badly need another center so Draisaitl can stay at wing, it’s best for him and its best for the team. Giving Letestu and/or Lander major minutes is not going to help.

    You can’t trade Nurse or Reinhart without knowing what you have, while we’re definately in go time, do we really want to sacrifice a defensemen that could end up top 3 just so we can make a playoff exit to a lesser team that we would with the current roster?

  78. Kepler62 says:

    If overpaying is the difference between getting your man and Craig MacTavish doing nothing because he’s not getting “full value” then I’ll take the overpay every time because it makes your team better while doing nothing is doing exactly that for making your team a winner.

  79. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels,

    stevezie,

    Pearl Jam and Fugazi make up 2 of my top 5 favourite bands of all time.
    Sonic Youth, Radiohead and Wilco are the other 3.

    The next 5 would be the Beatles (including all of Harrison’s solo material), The Boss, Neil, the Constantines, who in my opinion are the most important Canadian band of this century, and Modest Mouse.

    The list obviously changes from time to time and certainly my musical tastes are much more varied than shades of guitar-based rock from the 60s – present day but I think if I had to only listen to 10 bands for the rest of my life, it would be those 10. It would kill me to have to choose only 1 record from each though.

  80. Visually better says:

    Josh Winquist’s signing is all but official, should make the news asap. It’s an AHL only deal again with Bridgeport (Islanders farm team) so it’s not a big headline.

  81. haters says:

    To much we don’t know. Speculation was Hall was a problem in the dressing room. We’ve all heard some rumblings, how much weight I put into those rumor’s ? Not a lot.
    That said.
    Hall was just traded. The Gm said he had his chance to evaluate the lineup in all regards and deemed Hall expendable.

    Not saying anything but it doesn’t take a genius to put 3 and 3 together..

    I didn’t care for the ill will and disappointment Hall betrayed in his exit interview. It’s a business and these things happen. I think he’s going to grow a lot as a person and player from this experience ala Seguin, he just can’t see it that way yet.

  82. Visually better says:

    There were a few eastern US teams who had interest in him for a couple weeks now speaking with his agent. He’s thrilled to be going to new York and idk if this is divulging too much information but while negotiation he was offered some pretty promising propositions if he can keep up his scoring touch

  83. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    I’m infinitely fascinated with how individual musical tastes intersect. The Bend’s continues to be one of my favourite albums. Fugazi…….Long Division bass in isolation is magic, damn I love them.

    Propagandhi is near the top for me, amongst the more important Canadian acts and still extremely relevant.

    My punk/metal roots run deep, early Sabbath, Maiden, Black Flag, Dead Kennedy’s (rockin’ a DK shirt today from the Amnesia concert last weekend).

    Steve Earle, TV on the Radio, Tool. I could talk music all day.

    Btw – has anyone said Fuck You Bookije lately ?

  84. thepeetso says:

    stephen sheps,

    with you on the constantines, wilco and MM

    solid.

  85. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels:
    stephen sheps,

    I’m infinitely fascinated with how individual musical tastes intersect. The Bend’s continues to be one of my favourite albums. Fugazi…….Long Division bass in isolation is magic, damn I love them.

    Propagandhi is near the top for me, amongst the more important Canadian acts and still extremely relevant.

    My punk/metal roots run deep, early Sabbath, Maiden, Black Flag, Dead Kennedy’s (rockin’ a DK shirt today from the Amnesia concert last weekend).

    Steve Earle, TV on the Radio, Tool. I could talk music all day.

    Btw – has anyone said Fuck You Bookije lately ?

    not a band out of place on that list of yours as well. I could swap out Modest Mouse for the Weakerthans on that top 10 of mine (on the subject of Propagandhi).

    Steve Earle is just an absolute treasure. I saw him in a small theatre in Kingston 5 years ago. Wonderful performance, and the stories were almost better than the music, which is saying something.

    Sabbath – yup. My teenage self could never decide if I wanted to like punk or metal more. I went with punk but Sabbath remained present nonetheless.

    If everything breaks right and I get the job at the university I won’t name just yet (but will if I get the job), I will be teaching a course on the sociology of pop culture. I have big plans for a music section, very big plans.

  86. YKOil says:

    The GM who needs to trade is the GM who loses the trade. Chiarelli ‘needs’ to trade more often than I would like. With the proviso that Demers wasn’t coming here my vast preference would have been to sign Lucic and play small ball with the RH sided of the depth chart.

    Redmond, Paliotta, Wiz for the defense
    Marchessault for the forwards

    Oiler’s would have been a better team just by dint of:

    a. McLellan’s 2nd year coaching this group
    b. Korpikoski being gone
    c. Sekera/Fayne and their 2nd year together
    d. Team health on defense (Klefbom and Davidson)
    e. a LW depth chart of Hall (Drai) / Lucic (McDavid) / Pouliot / Maroon
    f. Team health on offense (McDavid, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov)
    g. Year 2 for guys like Oesterle

    This team did not have to trade Hall for Larsson. Play small ball, be successful, go from being a GM THAT has to trade Hall for a RHD to a GM that has assets to trade if a team has RHD and needs offense.

    Don’t let the other guy always be the one setting the price.

    Also, as with another poster, I also think Florida has a RHD available now.

  87. stephen sheps says:

    thepeetso,

    saw the cons 3 times on their reunion tour/victory lap in 2014-15. made up for the fact that I never got to see them the first go around through no fault of my own.

    had a ticket to see them along with broken social scene at the powerplant in 03. the universe conspired against me and I couldn’t make the show. it took 11 years but I finally saw both bands together.

  88. Bad Seed says:

    square_wheels:
    Bad Seed,

    Badmotorfinger is so awesome !Alice in Chains thankfully carried the heavier genre torch as Soundgarden went mainstream.

    Now that’s a band worth a long discussion……Staley/Cantrell were incredible, but that fucking heroin just wouldn’t leave Layne alone.

    Totally! I think Badmotorfinger is one of the finest heavy albums of all time. I agree with you about them going mainstream and Alice In Chains staying true. Much like Slayer never sold out like Lars and the gang.

  89. jm363561 says:

    I am okay with where we are now but do not get the RNH for Barrie idea – this would seem to make us far too weak down the middle. Drai without Hall is not a proven Top 6 C by any means.

    Any one of Oesterle, Reinhart and Davidson can, allegedly, play RD, and Gryba is okay. I can live with Sekera / Fayne – is Barrie that essential?

    I hope the remaining ($5m) cap space + Yak ( + half a dozen or so LD) brings another top nine C and a RW, with a bit left over for a 3 RD that might shake loose. (I also hope Lander and Reinhart spend the summer with Drai’s speed coach).

    Judgement on Chia should be suspended until training camp. Balls are in mid-air; irons in the fire; shoes waiting to drop all over the place.

  90. Dee Dee says:

    The Hall trade has certainly hit an emotional response from the Oiler faithful.

    Chiarelli will ultimately be judged by how the team performs and Lucic and Hall will be judged as they perform. Time will tell.

    To those who suggest Chiarelli has a track record for dumping high ranked players, I am not so sure the decisions were made at his level anyhow. The Bruins Video blog (whatever it was called, it was on Sportsnet), showed the meeting where they discussed Seguin, and it certainly looked like the Owner forced a trade based on Seguins partying ways. Not the greatest way to maximise returns.

    Hall was the first draft of the rebuild. It looks to me like a lot of folks don’t want to admit that the rebuild was a failure, and by keeping Hall, no matter what, makes them feel better and not have to admit that the rebuild was indeed, a failure.

    This blog has talked about “ways” for many years. It usually follows the model of the past winning teams. I’ve heard the Detroit Model, Chicago Model, LA Model, now its the Pittsburgh model. I do know there is an “Edmonton Model”. And it involves throwing young players into the deep end while seriously overhyping them and creating all sorts of pressure. The other part of the Edmonton Model is to slag the departing players. Everyone who has left has been slagged, not sure why anyone is suprised Hall got it, business as usual it seems.

    This game is more than just scoring points. The Oilers Model was to pick the highest scoring players and put them all together and to wait for the wins. Guess that wasn’t too successful eh? Now the argument could be made that defence isn’t as important if you simply score more than the other team.

    The problem is, is that the crew didn’t accomplish that either. The power play has horrific. Now you cant pin that on the 3rd and 4th lines, the power play was executed by the golden boys. Without crunching all the stats I seem to recall an awful power play. They were as likely to get scored on shorthanded as they were likely to score one themselves.

    When there are players one likes, one tends to put blinders on to the negative aspects of their game, its human nature as a fan. One tends to forget all the missed shots, and the give aways, and all the warts and blemishes on their favourite players game. So losing a particular player does indeed cause the team to lose the various aspects of that player, but it works both ways, positive AND negative.

    Changing a teams culture is very very hard.Life as an NHL GM is very hard too. Chiarelli took a lot of heat last year for doing very little and he’s taking heat this year for doing too much. His Ass is on the line and will cost him his job if he screws up.

    Did the Oilers “lose ” the trade?

    You bet.

    I would suggest though, that they have actually “Won” very few trades over the years. Mostly they trade their Vets for draft picks which were promptly thrown away on players that rarely, if ever, worked out.

    I don’t know the relative values of Left Wingers vs. Right Handed defenders, so I can’t compare the deal to anything and have no idea if it was “value” or not.

    But it fills a hole.

    And the Oilers filled the hole by trading Hall, then plugged Halls hole with Lucic.

    So the trade can be looked at from a few different levels, and while they may be losing on the raw offence level, but on team balance and style of play i believe they are ahead. And thats pretty much unmeasurable.

    Going to be a very interesting year next year.

  91. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    The Weakerthans……Sampson is a songwriter that few appreciate at the level he’s at. Left and Leaving is perfect, Watermark and This is a Fire Door Never Leave Open always on my playlists.

    Considering both him and Chris Hannah have wrote several of my favourite songs, a couple of guys from Portage La Prairie……folks from small towns see the world in unique ways, makes for great storytellers (songwriters included).

    If this said Uni gig breaks…..back to the north or still state-side ?

  92. Bad Seed says:

    square_wheels:
    stephen sheps,

    I’m infinitely fascinated with how individual musical tastes intersect. The Bend’s continues to be one of my favourite albums. Fugazi…….Long Division bass in isolation is magic, damn I love them.

    Propagandhi is near the top for me, amongst the more important Canadian acts and still extremely relevant.

    My punk/metal roots run deep, early Sabbath, Maiden, Black Flag, Dead Kennedy’s (rockin’ a DK shirt today from the Amnesia concert last weekend).

    Steve Earle, TV on the Radio, Tool. I could talk music all day.

    Btw – has anyone said Fuck You Bookije lately ?

    Agree with you on early Sabbath, Tool, and pretty much everything Earle has done since he finished with mainstream country after getting out of jail.

    Speaking of Tool, it’d be nice if they ever finished that album that they’ve been working on since forever.

  93. 719 says:

    I have a feeling it will be Sekera for Barrie.

  94. square_wheels says:

    Bad Seed,

    I know, if Maynard would just get over his wine obsession…..

    I have a few buddies that when that Album drops and they tour, we might Deadhead it for a few shows, Tool concerts are next level.

    Earle’s “mainstream” country is still a million times better than nearly everything produced from then until now. Chris Stapleton has brought me back to the records my dad and uncles played…..love me some legit country.

    Another guy I’ve quite enjoyed is Frank Turner, seen him a few months back and Mac Hall here at Uof C, incredible live show.

  95. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels,

    I wholeheartedly agree. great songwriters both. those long prairie winters, what else are you going to do?

    as to the job, I’m moving back to Toronto whether I get it or not.

    hoping not to have to make a career change but with the economy being what it is and the academic job market being insane, I’ll live with a change if it becomes necessary.

    living in the south has been a pretty strange experience, sometimes wonderful, sometimes brutal. I learned a lot down here, and as a sociologist it’s a truly fascinating and contradictory place. But I am definitely looking forward to returning north.

    one day I’ll probably write about my experiences down here. if I’m unemployed, it will probably happen sooner rather than later.

    Edit: (And speaking of the south) if you like Stapleton, check out both Sturgill Simpson and Jason Isbell. They make country the right way.

  96. BlueNoteNorth says:

    719:
    I have a feeling it will be Sekera for Barrie.

    I believe Sekera has a no movement clause. Doubt he agrees to such a move.

  97. Ducey says:

    v4ance:
    Btw, I know Benning is lost but what the heck!

    30 year old Loui Eriksson for 6 years at $6 million? It’s almost as if he’s in denial that the Sedin twins are 35 and he’s staring down the barrel of a rock bottom rebuild in 2 years!

    Man, I’m sure happy the Canucks have him at the helm.Their fans’ tears will taste delicious!

    Canucks fans don’t care enough to cry. They just walk away. Its why Benning can’t do a tear down. There will be empty seats.

  98. vangolf says:

    stephen sheps,

    Listening to sturgill right now (he does a great nirvana cover of in bloom). You got great taste friend. I also have a lot of time for isbell and his very cute violinist wife!

  99. Bad Seed says:

    square_wheels:
    Bad Seed,

    I know, if Maynard would just get over his wine obsession…..

    I have a few buddies that when that Album drops and they tour, we might Deadhead it for a few shows, Tool concerts are next level.

    Earle’s “mainstream” country is still a million times better than nearly everything produced from then until now. Chris Stapleton has brought me back to the records my dad and uncles played…..love me some legit country.

    Another guy I’ve quite enjoyed is Frank Turner, seen him a few months back and Mac Hall here at Uof C, incredible live show.

    Yeah, he’s got time to make Puscifer albums…

    Have seen Tool twice – you’re correct about next level.

    The thing about Earle is this – he’s the real deal, there’s nothing false about him. I’ve seen him a bunch too and apart from his preaching politics in the last few I’ve seen, he’s just fantastic in concert. I’ll have to pull out some of his albums – love me some Transcendental Blues and El Corazon.

    Will check out Frank Turner.

  100. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    I found Sturgell through Joe Rogan’s podcast. Found Wheeler Walker Jr thru JRE as well !!!!

    My wife has family near Ashville, an uncle in Lexington area, another in Newport News, and close friends in Bowling Green. We have spent lots of time in both, I must say there are not many places in the world I find stranger. Having said that, not many places in the “civilized” world I love more than New Orleans, the U.S. is and may always be, a paradox for me.

    I won’t wish you luck, talent doesn’t require it. Hope you find time to write down your thoughts and publish them in an open source for us to read, I would be very interested.

  101. Frank the dog says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes: You’re bang on and how would Hall’s game and style translate in the playoffs? I refuse to believe Chia trades Hall not knowing he already had Looch in the bag. I know what Lucic can do in the playoffs and I’d rather have that than the unknown. Add Larsson and I’m already at the point where I say … Taylor who?

    Did the world championships alongside CMD not qualify as playoffs? I’m good with the trade but I don’t share your doubts about Hall in the playoffs.

  102. square_wheels says:

    Bad Seed,

    Full disclosure. I researched to death a new rifle this winter, must have shouldered 50 different makes and models, drove the gun shop guys insane cuz they’re forever back and forth locking them.

    When I finally chose the model I then had to choose to leave a lifetime of one caliber or branch out into a new caliber, partially just for the hell of it.

    The final decision point came down to a line from N.Y.C off Earle’s El Corazon :

    he was standing on the highway somewhere way out in the sticks / guitar across his shoulder like a 30.06

    I thought it was better than a coin toss……

  103. square_wheels says:

    Bad Seed,

    Check out Lera Lynn and Honey Honey as well.

  104. stephen sheps says:

    square_wheels,

    Asheville is a cool town. If anyone ever tries to suggest that American beer is terrible, that person should be sent to Asheville immediately for an education on craft beer.

    and I appreciate the kind words, truly.

    once I am settled and have a better idea of what things look like, the writing will happen. I will likely just reactivate my old blog and politely spam this place with a link or 3.

  105. Chris says:

    Demers to Florida for less than 5 per for five years. Clearly we needed to trade Taylor Hall to get a right handed defenseman.

  106. Bag of Pucks says:

    stephen sheps:
    If you’re going to switch from Neil to the Boss, you couldn’t have chosen a better song to reference.

    Now they’d come so far and they’d waited so long
    Just to end up caught in a dream where everything goes wrong
    Where the dark of night holds back the light of the day
    And you’ve gotta stand and fight for the price you pay

    This is exactly what Chiarelli is dealing with, cleaning up the mess of someone else’s dream gone horribly wrong. Whether his choices lead to Stanley remains to be seen, but like Bruce says, you’ve gotta stand and fight.

    It may be sacrilege for me to say so around these parts but as much as I love Neil, but I think I like Springsteen even more.

    (For those unfamiliar with the song, listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-S02HKFRi8
    The River is just a monster of a double album in the middle of a legendary 6 record run – and the outtakes from this album alone are another double album that is almost as good as what was released)

    I like the Boss more as well.

    This lyric has been rattling around in the noggin since the Hall trade.

    “And my tires were slashed and I almost crashed, but the Lord had mercy
    And my machine, she’s a dud, out stuck in the mud somewhere in the swamps of Jersey”

  107. Bad Seed says:

    square_wheels:
    Bad Seed,

    Check out Lera Lynn and Honey Honey as well.

    Thanks!

  108. square_wheels says:

    stephen sheps,

    That beer thing drives me nuts. I’d fight someone naked for a Coors Banquet after a mountain bike ride.

    Abita Springs from Louisianna, St Arnold’s in Houston…..where would I stop.

  109. kinger_OIL says:

    Dee Dee,

    – awesome post! I don’t think Hall is as good in his 6 seasons here as some think, and I don’t think Larsson is as “bad” as some think. RHD are the new blind side tackles: he’s a beaut.

  110. who says:

    First post since Hall trade. Been too busy reading everybodys elses tirades. Chia has taken the plunge and made the all important first step to balance. That step had to be trading a skill forward for a top pairing righty dman. Sucks that it had to be Hall but he had the greatest perceived value. Don’t think Nuge or Eberle would have returned Larsson.Chia could stop right here and I believe we have a playoff team next year. He could go hunting for a Tyson Barrie type but the only chips he has left are lefty dmen. Don’t see him trading Nuge to get Barrie.

    There have been two constant narratives on this blog since the trade of Hall that I would like to comment on.
    1)The Hall trade was terrible and we should have gotten more or we should have made the deal for Subban.
    My initial reaction was it should be Larsson plus but I prefer this deal to doing nothing and this is a much better trade than the Subban suggestions. A lot of posters here were ready to give up Drai, Klef and 4OV for Subban and his 9 mil contract. That would have been a franchise killer and is so silly it is hardly woth discussing. Simply put, we now have a top pairing making less combined than PK alone and they both may turn out to be better dmen over the next 5 years.
    2)Now that Hall is gone we only have one “river pusher”, thus we will only be able to ice one scoring line
    Do people really believe this or do they just repeat any mindless drivel they read on the internet?. When JP fell to us in the draft most people, myself included, thought the Oilers had the pieces to run three scoring lines at some point next season. What has changed? We lost Hall but added Lucic. Taylor Hall must be quite the player if losing him costs us two scoring lines.
    We have three centers who are all very capable of carrying the puck through the neutral ice and I see JP turning into that kind of player in the next few years. We have complimentary pieces like Eberle, Lucic, Poo, Yak and Maroon. Quite frankly our top nine forwards, as a whole, are just as good as Pittsubrghs.

    That is all, for now.

  111. Snowman says:

    So fellas just looking at Larsson…

    Thought I’d check out his international stats just to see if he has any offense at all…

    Playing for Sweden he’s averaged about 0.5 points per game internationally. Most recently he posted 4 points in 8 games at the 2016 world hockey championships.

    Might be nothing but might be something.

  112. Water Fire says:

    Centre of attention: but lets try and cheer for Larsson instead of permanently shunning him because he was the return for Hall. I know that’s almost impossible but I ask my fellow fans to at least try and appreciate Larsson as a player.

    I haven’t read any negative comments about Larsson as a player. The only issue he will have is from knuckle draggers who will say he’s sissified if he doesn’t put somebody through the glasws once a game.

    Those who like the finer points of the game will love him. Maybe Lucic’sviolence will give cover to Adam.

  113. square_wheels says:

    Water Fire,

    The threat of Lucic violence is likely enough. Can’t wait for the Burrows and Kessler reckonings of 2016-17, loooooong overdue.

  114. ashley says:

    I like the trade, but as many of you know, I’ve never been as big of a Hall fan as others around here, so it’s easier for me to like. I can feel the pain in some of your posts, especially LT. I’m very sorry that this has caused so much grief, but I believe the team is much better today and I am confident that their success this coming season will ease your pain.

    This was terribly unfair to Hall who put his heart and soul into a losing cause for 6 seasons with the promise of a brighter tomorrow that never came. Now he finds himself in an organization that is going to struggle to play .500 hockey probably for the rest of his contract.

    Some guys have all the luck, some guys have none.

    If we go back to the three quarter pole of the season during the East coast trip, we will recall TMac going off in the post games about entitled star players not playing the system and not doing what is being asked of them. Also lacking effort. This was attributed to Eberle, Schultz, and Nuge at the time, but if we could have been a fly on the wall in a conversation between TMac and Chia, it was likely Hall that was a big part of the frustration (among others, likely Schultz, Eberle and maybe Nuge). This seems quite likely now in view of the trade.

    Speculation, obviously, but this was the root of the “culture change” talk.

    The reality is that Hall (and Eberle and Schultz) have never played into any of the systems that any of the coach’s have brought. This was a common complaint from Eakins as well. Renney was a little more circumspect with his comments, but the message was similiar.

    Hall free wheels and is highly effective doing so. For a player like Hall, I think you are better off working with his free-wheeling spirit and designing a system around him rather than trying to shove a system that worked at your last job down his throat. 6 coaches failed in this endeavour. It will be interesting to see what happens in Jersey.

  115. OilClog says:

    Nuge only gets moved if someone offers a player better then Larsson

    Chia absolutely prizes depth up the middle and he’s an envy around the league, for him to weaken that position the return is going to have to be astronomical

    Could still be Pouliot that’s moved, if not Ebs.

    Rangers have been very quiet, dances could be had.

  116. square_wheels says:

    I had no idea The River was about Bruce’s sister and brother in law.

    A five minute Springsteen song can be like a great novel or a movie, just overloads your brain with imagery.

  117. Snowman says:

    Jimmy Valentine ‏@rumps17 59s59 seconds ago
    Getting lots of messages for an update, all I’ve heard today is Oilers trying to include Yakupov but Avs want more for third piece #avs
    2 retweets 2 likes
    Reply Retweet 2
    Like 2
    More

    Jimmy Valentine ‏@rumps17 Jul 1
    I don’t usually tweet hockey but hearing major deal between Oilers and avs is extremely close. Should be done in next 48 hrs. #barrie

    The third piece part is the intriguing part of this. Not sure how credible this fellow is seeing as how NFL is his gig. I wonder if there more than one player being discussed. I know lots on twitter about Duchene and Barrie… What are the odds Chia can pull that off?

  118. Alpine says:

    Kinda glad we ended up with Larsson and not Ristolainen or Hamonic. Larsson torches Ristolainen’s CF rates on the hero charts the last two seasons and has scored at a better primary EVP rate.

    Hamonic was only a marginally better EV producer this season (not last) and is much worse with shot suppression and High danger chance prevention against similar competition to what Larsson face. For a supposed shutdown D, Hamonic doesn’t exactly shut down much.

    I think we caught a break with Snow and Murray overvaluing their own assets.

  119. ashley says:

    Alpine:
    Kinda glad we ended up with Larsson and not Ristolainen or Hamonic. Larsson torches Ristolainen’s CF rates on the hero charts the last two seasons and has scored at a better primary EVP rate.

    Hamonic was only a marginally better EV producer this season (not last) and is much worse with shot suppression and High danger chance prevention against similar competition to what Larsson face. For a supposed shutdown D, Hamonic doesn’t exactly shut down much.

    I think we caught a break with Snow and Murray overvaluing their own assets.

    We were very luck to get Larsson. If I was a GM with him on my team, I never would have traded him for anything except maybe CMD, Crosby or another top pairing RHD. Far too valuable. How do you replace a young top pairing RHD on a value contract?

  120. whiskeytangoeberle says:

    Would like to add my point of view to the music conversation.

    Credentials: favorite guitar driven bands: fugazi, shellac, built to spill. Keep it like a Secret has aged like wine. highly recommended.

    Weakerthans: Left and Leaving seems to be their benchmark album, most of my friends stopped listening after they stopped singing about girls but reconstruction site is phenominal. favorite song is Benediction. Sarah Harmer’s backing voculs are magic.

    90’s long hair singer long dead bands: Get the impression that most people consider it uncool to like blind melon but i feel their debut is the best album from all these bands, including nirvana. Recorded live off the floor their is nothing like it if you listen real close.

    Countryish music: please listen to sam baker

    album i just hought of that needs to be mentioned: magnolia electric co. (by Jason molina). if you haven’t heard you now have your nightime headphone listening assigment.

    sorry about spelling/poor style. don’t feel like writing but wanted to unload this.

  121. Alpine says:

    Snowman:
    So fellas just looking at Larsson…

    Thought I’d check out his international stats just to see if he has any offense at all…

    Playing for Sweden he’s averaged about 0.5 points per game internationally. Most recently he posted 4 points in 8 games at the 2016 world hockey championships.

    Might be nothing but might be something.

    Just check his NHL rates from last season. 25th among D in pts/60. 14th in first assists/60. He has had success offence-wise in the league. It’s only come in one season, but i don’t believe he was riding high percentages there.

  122. dustrock says:

    I don’t get the RNH for Barrie rumours . For either team.

  123. Lowetide says:

    dustrock:
    I don’t get the RNH for Barrie rumours .For either team.

    I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

  124. thepeetso says:

    Lowetide: I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

    I’m having a hard time figuring out EDM.

    They need Centres as well . . . young up the middle.

    I just don’t see how a trade between these two teams makes any sense.

  125. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    This defense still isn’t good enough.

    Significant changes are needed.

    Pittsburgh is the exception, not the rule.

  126. LMHF#1 says:

    Hopkins Nurse and something for Duchene and Barrie?

  127. thepeetso says:

    LMHF#1:
    Hopkins Nurse and something for Duchene and Barrie?

    I just can’t imagine ChiaPete ever trading Nurse.

    He oozes the type of character and toughness that Chiarelli seems to covet above all else.

  128. wheatnoil says:

    Ethan Bear’s ELC is on Cap Friendly (I didn’t see it posted but may have missed it).

    $722 cap hit. Almost identical to Caleb Jones $705K, except Jones has a bit more bonus money in year 3 while Bear has a slightly higher guaranteed salary.

  129. Halfwise says:

    ashley: How do you replace a young top pairing RHD on a value contract?

    It’s a fair question. It took Chiarelli less than 72 hours to sign another 1 LW. It took 15 months to replace Jeff Petry, who was not exactly everyone’s definition of a 1 RD.

  130. vangolf says:

    square_wheels:
    I had no idea The River was about Bruce’s sister and brother in law.

    A five minute Springsteen song can be like a great novel or a movie, just overloads your brain with imagery.

    Well articulated about the boss. I need to give his ghost of Tom joad album a shout out for those who are not as familiar with his whole library. It is almost exclusively sung lullaby soft and yet to me is his most powerful work. The theme is Mexican migrant labour and he hits both sides of the “wall” and breaks them both down to basic human motivations with a collection of mini stories.

  131. who says:

    Lowetide: I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

    Thats my take as well. We could probably get Barrie for Nurse but I don’t think Chia is willing to trade Nurse. Do you think Davidson and Reinhart would get it done. Or is this an overpay?
    My reasoning is that the Avs are so short of dmen they may be willing to move Barrie for a couple of 3rd pairing guys who may develop into second pairing players. Especially if they see him as a third pairing powerplay specialist.
    I also think Edmonton could afford to make this trade given their depth on the left side.

  132. Fog of Warts says:

    ashley: This was terribly unfair to Hall who put his heart and soul into a losing cause for 6 seasons with the promise of a brighter tomorrow that never came.

    That was my first reaction, too. I didn’t especially like the trade, but I wasn’t gutted by it the way many were. Except on Hall’s behalf, who deserved better.

    I was strongly opposed to the Subban deals, based on the number of pieces going the other way (in most versions). Maybe Chicago can make that work, but they have the advantage of a sterling reputation. The Oilers: not so much. We are not Chicago.

    From a few days back:

    Cult of Hockey: Why the Oilers should have made the Subban trade, not the Hall deal

    Willis does not sufficiently factor into his analysis that we are not Chicago. Oilers gotta do what Oilers gotta do.

    I’m sad for Hall. Full stop.

  133. GCW_69 says:

    Chris:
    Demers to Florida for less than 5 per for five years. Clearly we needed to trade Taylor Hall to get a right handed defenseman.

    Before we roast the Oilers for not signing Demers for $4.5M, there are a couple of things we should consider:

    1). Florida does not have a state income tax. Both TSN and Sportsnet radio here in Toronto talked about it incessantly during and after the Stamkos pursuit by the Leafs. It’s a roughly 15% advantage over teams in any other state or province. Players and agents are aware of this.
    2) Therefore, to meet Florida’s offer the Oilers would need to offer ~$5.2M just to be on par
    3) Florida is viewed as a trending team after their run last year and let’s face it, winter in Florida is a lot nicer than winter in Edmonton, especially after getting used to San Jose and Texas. So, you would think Edmonton would not only need to meet Florida’s offer, but exceed it.

    So there was really no scenario where Demers comes to Edmonton for $4.5M. The number for Edmonton was between $5.2M and $6.0M.

    4) The Oilers defence currently lacks a 2/3 RD and a 1PP QB. The team is not going to be successful if it doesn’t address these gaps. There is no capacity within the current 50 man list to compensate. Expecting Nurse or Reinhart to close these gaps is foolish to the extreme.

    What to do?

    A) Stop pining over Demers. The Oilers were unlikely to unseat Florida’s offer, like the Leafs couldn’t with Stamkos and Tampa’s.
    B). Previously I was opposed to the Oilers pursuing Franson this summer. There were better options out there . Primarily burning one of the six million dollar men for a top pairing defender with enough offence to run the top PP unit and then get Severson as the second top 4 acquisition to push Fayne down and run the second PP unit. That dream is dead now, and with the expansion draft looming and few decent forwards left to plug a hole created by trading Nuge, Eberle or Leon, the best option remaining is to fun Sekera – Fayne as the second pair and acquire a player like Franson for the third pair who can run a power play. Then, go fix the problem long term after the expansion draft.
    3) The Oilers need a veteran RW option to give Leon some cover. The Oilers have already missed on Parenteau and Stempniak. They should snap up Versteeg. Run Eberle with Nuge and Versteeg with Leon and let Yak and JP compete to line up with Lucic and McDavid. Putting Pouliot and Versteeg with Leon will give him veteran that can actually score a little.

    At one point I had some hopes Chiarelli could make some smart moves and walk away with a Cup contender. No more. Now he has to make at least two more measured moves to get to a playoff contender. But unless the Duschene and Barrie for Nurse and Nuge is more than fantasy , I really don’t want Chiarelli trading a centre any more. He hasn’t got a way to close the hole he would be creating.

  134. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: I absolutely know most will not agree

    I agree.

    So why are trading him for PP QBs again?

  135. El Duderino says:

    Fog of Warts: That was my first reaction, too.I didn’t especially like the trade, but I wasn’t gutted by it the way many were.Except on Hall’s behalf, who deserved better.

    I was strongly opposed to the Subban deals, based on the number of pieces going the other way (in most versions).Maybe Chicago can make that work, but they have the advantage of a sterling reputation.The Oilers: not so much.We are not Chicago.

    From a few days back:

    Cult of Hockey: Why the Oilers should have made the Subban trade, not the Hall deal

    Willis does not sufficiently factor into his analysis that we are not Chicago.Oilers gotta do what Oilers gotta do.

    I’m sad for Hall.Full stop.

    A post my limited intellect understands.

  136. LMHF#1 says:

    thepeetso: I just can’t imagine ChiaPete ever trading Nurse.

    He oozes the type of character and toughness that Chiarelli seems to covet above all else.

    “Everybody’s got a price.”

    – The Million Dollar Man, Ted DiBiase

  137. Pouzar says:

    OilClog: Nuge only gets moved if someone offers a player better then Larsson

    I wish this were true.

  138. spoiler says:

    Halfwise: It’s a fair question. It took Chiarelli less than 72 hours to sign another 1 LW. It took 15 months to replace Jeff Petry, who was not exactly everyone’s definition of a 1 RD.

    Outstanding point.

    Which raises another aspect that was dealt…. Time. As in time ticking on McDeity’s ELC.

  139. spoiler says:

    The concern I have with all the hope over Larsson’s offense is that is CF numbers are abysmal.

    Greene’s, unbelievably, are even worse.

    And this is with sharing the most TOI with Palmieri, Zajac, and Henrique. In other words, the best possible help the coach could give him.

    Now it might be that this unit was getting buried by the toughs, despite the fact their shot suppression (CA) is pretty good, but we are talking very low event in either case. And all of these Forwards posted much more respectable CF numbers without the Larsson-Greene pairing.

    So I don’t know whether to put this down to coaching systems and The Trap (Mickey Mouse Trap?), or what the Sam Hill.

    I think we can rely on Larsson being very good defensively, but offense I think is going to be a concern and something we will need to follow. Not sure he racks up his boxcars with a normal PDO for example.

  140. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

    Didn’t they just sign a boatload?

  141. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide: I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

    They’ve been signing a LOT of D.

  142. JimmyV1965 says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    What centres do you look at if RNH is dealt? Bozak wouldn’t be a bad option if they kept their 3 Cs, think it’d need to be a centre that could cover 2C if Drai took a step back without his driver. In the Backlund/Nielsen mould?

    <

    delooper:
    You definitely trade Hall over Nugent-Hopkins. Wingers are readily obtainable.Maybe none exactly like Hall, but centres and D-men are the glue that hold teams together. With a solid core of centres and D-men you can have a good team, with replacement-level wingers.

    You can’t really believe this. There are oodles of teams past and present whose best players are wingers.

  143. trevorj says:

    Taylor Hall is elite with a real value contract. You cannot win this trade, we got robbed. Tired of listening to people trying to sugar coat it. You can only replace a Taylor Hall via the draft ( Pain and Suffering) don’t we know it or 2. Desperate GM with a history of trading pure skill for pennies on the dollar calls you up looking for your best RHD…I do like Lucic and feel he brings the right attitude to the team but the Hall deal needs to stand on its own. Are we a better team? Maybe? But have we once again mismanaged a vauluble asset for “Potential” ? Taylor Hall. Faaaakkkkkk!

  144. JimmyV1965 says:

    If the Hall trade was even remotely fair, you figure you could go to a Devils fansite and find some spirited discussion on the issue. Well you might see a morsel of that, but the vast majority of discussion is basically back slapping and high fives.

  145. Ducey says:

    Professor Q: They’ve been signing a LOT of D.

    All lefties though. If they trade Barrie they only have one RHD.

    If I were Chia I’d be getting medicals from Wiz and have him take a spin it two with Klefbom and Benson. If he checks out then give him a bonus laden contract.

  146. Ducey says:

    trevorj:
    Taylor Hall is elite with a real value contract. You cannot win this trade, we got robbed. Tired of listening to people trying to sugar coat it. You can only replace a Taylor Hall via the draft ( Pain and Suffering) don’t we know it or 2. Desperate GM with a history of trading pure skill for pennies on the dollar calls you up looking for your best RHD…I do like Lucic and feel he brings the rightattitude to the team but the Hall deal needs to stand on its own. Are we a better team? Maybe? But have we once again mismanaged a vauluble asset for “Potential” ? Taylor Hall. Faaaakkkkkk!

    I see this a lot: Chia lost the trade but improved the team.

    I leaves me confused at the problem. Especially as I see no way in the current market that he could have won the trade and improved the team.

  147. OF17 says:

    One benefit of the Hall trade? I think it means Chiarelli won’t be in a position of weakness in negotiations for the foreseeable future. Need an upgrade on LW? If you don’t find it, we still have Lucic-Pouliot-Maroon. Need a C? McDavid-Nuge-Draisaitl. RW? Eberle-Yak-Puljujarvi. LD? Klefbom-Sekera-Davidson-Nurse-Reinhart-Oesterle. RD? Larsson-Fayne. G? Talbot-Brossoit.

    At literally every position, we have good enough depth that no moves are strictly necessary. Upgrades will be needed if we want to win in all, especially at RD, but no longer will Chiarelli be staring down a barrel like he was on the Reinhart and Larsson deals, the only two significant overpays of his tenure. That’s a big deal. If the Barrie rumors are true, it also means Chiarelli SHOULD get significantly better value in the trade than he did with Larsson.

  148. tcho says:

    spoiler,

    20% Offensive Zone Starts will tend to hamper your ability to get shots on the opposition’s net.

  149. sliderule says:

    tcho:
    spoiler,

    20% Offensive Zone Starts will tend to hamper your ability to get shots on the opposition’s net.

    A correction for zone starts is a weakness that the Corsi lovers haven’t figured out.

    They can’t figure it out so they just deny its affect.

  150. spoiler says:

    tcho:
    spoiler,

    20% Offensive Zone Starts will tend to hamper your ability to get shots on the opposition’s net.

    Oscar Mike Golf

  151. spoiler says:

    sliderule: A correction for zone starts is a weakness that the Corsi lovers haven’t figured out.

    They can’t figure it out so they just deny its affect.

    Bitter much?

  152. Surly says:

    Trying to figure out the expansion draft:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/c-281010592

    1st/2nd year pros we don’t have to protect will be McDavid, Nurse (I think???), Pullujarvi

    There was a June article at ON talking about how we might have to protect Ference, here is the rule:

    * All players who have currently effective and continuing “No Movement” clauses at the time of the Expansion Draft (and who to decline to waive such clauses) must be protected (and will be counted toward their club’s applicable protection limits).

    Based on this, and that article, I think we might have to given the draft is in June ’17 and his NMC/contact has not yet expired??? Can he simply do us ‘a solid’ and waive his NMC as the language suggests (not sure if it’s a typo or I’m not a lawyer but that bracketed statement doesn’t make sense)

  153. Sugar Reijo says:

    Lowetide: I have a hard time figuring out Colorado, too. They NEED D.

    In the case of Barrie, familiarity breeding contempt? A forest v trees deal? Shades of the MacT/Petry dynamic? Seems clear they’ve been dreading his next contract all season. Reminds me a bit too of Bergevin playing hardball with PK on his bridge deal. And we all know how that turned out…

    As for Duchene, I still can’t believe the way Roy torched him at the end of the year in the media. I have a feeling Sakic/Roy are getting ready to do something cripplingly stupid to that franchise. I hope Chia is on the phone to them daily. Suspect he is, too.

  154. godot10 says:

    Surly:
    Trying to figure out the expansion draft:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/c-281010592

    1st/2nd year pros we don’t have to protect will be McDavid, Nurse (I think???), Pullujarvi

    There was a June article at ON talking about how we might have to protect Ference, here is the rule:

    * All players who have currently effective and continuing “No Movement” clauses at the time of the Expansion Draft (and who to decline to waive such clauses) must be protected (and will be counted toward their club’s applicable protection limits).

    Based on this, and that article, I think we might have to given the draft is in June ’17 and his NMC/contact has not yet expired???Can he simply do us ‘a solid’ and waive his NMC as the language suggests (not sure if it’s a typo or I’m not a lawyer but that bracketed statement doesn’t make sense)

    effective AND continuing.

    Do you understand the meaning of AND?

    “Effective” means the full NMC has to be in place for next season, and “Continuing” means the full NMC has to be in place for the following season ALSO.

    i.e.

    if one has a NMC that expires on June 30 next year, one does NOT have to be protected.

    if one has a NMC that only starts on July 1 next year, one does NOT have to be protected.

    One only has to be protected if the NMC is effective AND continuing.

    Ference does NOT have to be protected because his NMC is NOT continuing.

  155. square_wheels says:

    whiskeytangoeberle,

    No shame in loving Blind Melon, that debut album was a tiny glimpse into the emerging brilliance of Shannon.

  156. square_wheels says:

    vangolf,

    Rage Against the Machine’s cover of Tom Joad crushes.

  157. russ99 says:

    719:
    I have a feeling it will be Sekera for Barrie.

    For the thousandth time, Sekera has a NMC and he was night in and night out our best defenseman last year,

    Considering he might actually have some help from the forwards and hopefully someone better than Fayne to pair with, I expect him to be better this year.

  158. Pouzar says:

    Larsson sucks. We got robbed. He isn’t a #1 RHD.

    Did I do that right?

  159. Ryan says:

    Sugar Reijo: Truer words were never spoken.

    Seriously, put an Oiler logo beside that and it’s a bumper sticker I’d buy.

    As for Nuge I’d really like them to hang onto him unless the return is Barrie. Doubt Colorado does that though. So I’d be happy with a guy like Wisniewski as a bandaid PP solution.

    Interesting turn of phrase.

    I’d be scared to sign Wisniewski since he literally is made of glass.

  160. jake70 says:

    Hall – – 6M cap hit, controlled until June 30/ 2020, 24 yo
    Larsson – – 4.166M cap hit, controlled until June 30/2021, 23 yo

    The 1.83M cap saving + the extra year control + he is 363 days younger than Hall….would be part of the reason no more than the Larsson came back in the trade.

  161. Generational Poster says:

    David Savard seems like such a good option if we can get him for picks / prospects.

    Or, any rumours on the price for Shattenkirk? Does Yak & 1st for Shat & 2nd get you in range? If 16/17 season goes in the shitter you flush the shat at the deadline for a late 1st and a prospect. If things are going well he is our own rental and the return after the season is cap space…or maybe he decides along the way that he would sign an extension here.

    Klefbom / Larsson
    Sekera / Fayne
    Davidson / Savard or Shattenkirk

    Yes please!

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