THE SEVENTH ROUND (2016 UPDATE)

By Round 7 the suits have left, the scouting director is speaking to the media and the scouts are trying to marry 40,000 miles of bad road with the fact one pick came from their area. The chances of grabbing an NHL player of 100 or more games is 9.25%, and of course a player who can help for several seasons far, far lower.

The Edmonton Oilers had some real success early in the century. Matthew Lombardi (536 games) and Kyle Brodziak (697 games) represent the outer marker and a scouting home run for any team.

I’m hopeful we can have a rational conversation about the Edmonton Oilers in the seventh round 2008-16. No grand statements on either side, no claims of victory, just an honest assessment of the way things are, the good and bad arrows, and a discussion in regard to useful players coming out of this area of the draft. In order to do this, we absolutely have to agree on some things:

  • We can’t judge a drafted player weeks after his selection.
  • We can count arrows, and they are a good indicator.
  • We cannot expect all of the picks to succeed, that isn’t reasonable.
  • We have come to some kind of conclusion about a line in the sand and agree to it (the Cullen grades)

OILERS SEVENTH ROUND PICKS, 2008-2016

  • 2008: Jordan Bendfeld (Kevin Lowe) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2010: Kristians Pelss (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2010: Kellen Jones (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2011: Frans Tuohimaa (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2013: Greg Chase (Craig MacTavish) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2014: Keven Bouchard (Craig MacTavish) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2015: Miroslav Svoboda (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)
  • 2015: Ziyat Paigin (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)
  • 2016: Vincent Desharnais (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)

ARROWS

  • Productive in Europe/AHL: Kellen Jones, Frans Tuohimaa
  • “It’s Over” arrows: Jordan Bendfeld, Keven Bouchard
  • Bad arrows:
  • Lukewarm arrows: Greg Chase
  • Good arrows: Miroslav Svoboda
  • Very good arrows: Ziyat Paigin
  • New arrows: Vincent Desharnais

ONE BY ONE

  • D Jordan Bendfeld: He was drafted in 2006 by the Coyotes, but was a draft re-entry in 2008 when the Oilers took him. Played 106 ECHL and 26 AHL games during his pro career.
  • F Kristians Pelss: Enjoyed a strong junior career with the Edmonton Oil Kings and played 20 AHL and 13 ECHL games in his first pro season. We still miss him.
  • F Kellen Jones: He and twin brother Connor are solid AHL forwards, specializing in penalty killing. Both will play with the Bridgeport Sound Tigers this coming season. Jones has played in 86 AHL games.
  • G Frans Tuohimaa: Frans’ North American experience was disappointing, he didn’t play that much and the results were not promising. He had a nice season in Sweden (with Leksands of the Allsvenskan) and will play in Finland (Sm-Liiga) with SaiPa in 2016-17.
  • C-R Greg Chase: After a strong junior career (he was a flat out bargain on draft day), Chase was sent to the ECHL (43, 18-19-37) where he delivered offensively. His AHL time (19, 1-6-7) was promising enough to get more opportunities, and that should come in 2016-17.
  • G Keven Bouchard: He didn’t move the needle after his draft day, although there were moments this past season that housed some hope. The 2014 draft needs a forensics of its own. Lordy.
  • G Miroslav Svoboda: Draft +1 started slowly, but a trade to Sumperk (Czech 2) brought success and a .924 save percentage. These remain early days, and the level of play in Czech 2 is uncertain, but as much as we can trust the numbers he made progress year over year in the same league.
  • D Ziyat Paigin: Last year I wrote: A monster defenseman best described as a project, but this is the place to draft them. This year: Miles of copy and still not enough words to describe the spike. The boxcars: 45, 9-19-28 and an appearance in the KHL All-Star game. Going back to AK Bars Kazan for 2016-17 and then hopefully heading to the Oilers organization.
  • D Vincent Desharnais: A monster defenseman best described as a project, but this is the place to draft them.

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109 Responses to "THE SEVENTH ROUND (2016 UPDATE)"

  1. Younger Oil says:

    The weird thing is, if you gave a blind outsider the groups drafted in each round (after the 2nd round) from 2008-16, they would have an awful time determining which group was from which round.

    It’s probably like that for all teams, but the quality of player in the 3rd round isn’t all that different from the 7th, in my opinion at least.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Younger Oil:
    The weird thing is, if you gave a blind outsider the groups drafted in each round (after the 2nd round) from 2008-16, they would have an awful time determining which group was from which round.

    It’s probably like that for all teams, but the quality of player in the 3rd round isn’t all that different from the 7th, in my opinion at least.

    It SHOULD be better in the second round and the third round should offer more gems (based on the overall averages). That said, great point and I agree.

  3. knighttown says:

    It’s dumb of me and I know it but I can’t get onboard the Paigan train yet. The pedigree is just too low. And i KNOW that after draft day draft position should mean very little but still…this doesn’t happen to the Oilers.

    They don’t find difference makers after about pick 20. No way they can find one at pick 200.

    Is there???

    Until I see him with my own eyes I’m going to keep my head in the sand and assume every goal was an own goal by the opposition and the official scorer uses reverse alphabetical order to pick who gets awarded.

    I shall also assume th KHL awards their assists based on height.

    This way it’ll hurt less when he disappears into the mists.

  4. theDjdj says:

    “D Vincent Desharnais: A monster defenseman best described as a project, but this is the place to draft them.”

    Well here’s to hoping, right?

    Hopefully he 2015 draft for the Oilers will make up for the woeful 2014 draft. The needles are all pointing in the right direction, plus we drafted a God, may turn out to be one of our strongest drafts to date.

  5. Lowetide says:

    knighttown:
    It’s dumb of me and I know it but I can’t get onboard the Paigan train yet. The pedigree is just too low. And i KNOW that after draft day draft position should mean very little but still…this doesn’t happen to the Oilers.

    They don’t find difference makers after about pick 20. No way they can find one at pick 200.

    Is there???

    Until I see him with my own eyes I’m going to keep my head in the sand and assume every goal was an own goal by the opposition and the official scorer uses reversealphabetical order to pick who gets awarded.

    I shall also assume th KHL awards their assists based on height.

    This way it’ll hurt less when he disappears into the mists.

    Very wise.

  6. geowal says:

    knighttown,

    Petry, Davidson, Rieder…

  7. sliderule says:

    Seventh round draft picks that succeeded fro 2003-07

    03
    Brodziak
    Pavelski
    04 Campoli
    Brouwer
    Hunwick
    05 Greening
    Stralman
    Hornquist
    06 Dorsett
    Condra
    07Gunnarson
    Braun
    Thirteen players out of 150 picked.Just under 10 percent
    Ten of the players were overagers and had gone thru the draft.

    Do you think the oilers can learn from this.

  8. OilinBC says:

    Younger Oil:
    The weird thing is, if you gave a blind outsider the groups drafted in each round (after the 2nd round) from 2008-16, they would have an awful time determining which group was from which round.

    It’s probably like that for all teams, but the quality of player in the 3rd round isn’t all that different from the 7th, in my opinion at least.

    The way I see it most clubs like to take the “safer” bet in those earlier rounds, usually players with average skating, average shot etc. etc.

    In the later rounds you see clubs take a gamble on players that usually exceed in some areas of the game but have one or more glaring weak points; ie Davidson not having a good stride.

  9. Mr DeBakey says:

    From this morning’s thread:

    Make [the phenom that is Jesse Puljujarvi] earn the job, full stop. If he isn’t ready, 20 games—or 40, or 60—could benefit this young man and the Oilers in a big way.

    I haven’t read the many thoughtful and well-reasoned comments that followed this post, and may not have time to, but am confident that all wholeheartedly agreed with you.

    After all, these are Oiler fans, they’ve seen their team routinely keep 18-year-olds on the roster even though they know 18-year-olds won’t help the Club win anything important. [Other than more high draft picks, of course.]

    * * *

    I’ve got an idea! Trade Kyle Brodziak for picks!

  10. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    From this morning’s thread:

    Make [the phenom that is Jesse Puljujarvi] earn the job, full stop. If he isn’t ready, 20 games—or 40, or 60—could benefit this young man and the Oilers in a big way.

    I haven’t read the many thoughtful and well-reasoned comments that followed this post, and may not have time to, but am confident that all wholeheartedly agreed with you.

    After all, these are Oiler fans, they’ve seen their team routinely keep 18-year-olds on the roster even though they know 18-year-olds won’t help the Club win anything important. [Other than more high draft picks, of course.]

    * * *

    I’ve got an idea!Trade Kyle Brodziak for picks!

    Ha! You kid, surely. I published at 8:30, the first dissent occurred at 9:14.

  11. speeds says:

    Mr DeBakey:

    I haven’t read the many thoughtful and well-reasoned comments that followed this post, and may not have time to, but am confident that all wholeheartedly agreed with you.

    After all, these are Oiler fans, they’ve seen their team routinely keep 18-year-olds on the roster even though they know 18-year-olds won’t help the Club win anything important. [Other than more high draft picks, of course.

    I think this conflates the quality of the team with the performance of the 18 year old rookies.

    Since drafting Hall, the Oilers have kept Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Draisaitl and McDavid at 18. I think most would agree Hall, RNH, and McDavid didn’t hurt the team, we can argue re: Yakupov and/or Draisaitl but to me the larger issue is the surrounding players and what you’re asking the young players to do.

  12. Bag of Pucks says:

    Seth Jones
    Dougie Hamilton
    Alex Goligoski
    Boychuk/Leddy

    Can some posters please stop insisting that Larsson was the only option and Hall the only price that could be paid?

    As the list above indicates, there is plenty of ways to skin this cat if your GM can avoid buyer obsession. There is some good D on that list. Strange that none commanded a player the caliber of Hall.

    Appreciate hockey players aren’t houses, but man it looks like we paid over market for our new crib. Location. Location. Location. More like: Position. Position. Position.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Seth Jones
    Dougie Hamilton
    Alex Goligoski
    Boychuk/Leddy

    Can some posters please stop insisting that Larsson was the only option and Hall the only price that could be paid?

    As the list above indicates, there is plenty of ways to skin this cat if your GM can avoid buyer obsession. There is some good D on that list. Strange that none commanded a player the caliber of Hall.

    Appreciate hockey players aren’t houses, but man it looks like we paid over market for our new crib. Location. Location. Location. More like: Position. Position. Position.

    I think PC wanted a shutdown defender. I also think he wanted Dougie Hamilton, who would be the template for the puck mover.

  14. Ducey says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Seth Jones
    Dougie Hamilton
    Alex Goligoski
    Boychuk/Leddy

    Can some posters please stop insisting that Larsson was the only option and Hall the only price that could be paid?

    As the list above indicates, there is plenty of ways to skin this cat if your GM can avoid buyer obsession. There is some good D on that list. Strange that none commanded a player the caliber of Hall.

    Appreciate hockey players aren’t houses, but man it looks like we paid over market for our new crib. Location. Location. Location. More like: Position. Position. Position.

    Jones was traded for a #1C. He is not any better than Larsson. The Oilers offered Nuge. Guess who they would have had to offer instead. Even then NSH may not have taken Hall. They wanted a C. Plus Chia was likely hoping to avoid trading Hall and expected he could get something done in June.

    Hamilton was traded last year for less than what the Oilers offered. Any evidence CGY is trading him? No. Not unless you overpay.

    Goligoski. He is a LHD, as is Leddy

    Boychuk can be had but he sucks. His fancy stats are poor. He has 6 yrs on his contract that pays him $6 M a year until he is 38. That’s a boat anchor. Plus he has a no trade. If that is your solution for RHD , wow.

  15. Bag of Pucks says:

    Lowetide: I think PC wanted a shutdown defender. I also think he wanted Dougie Hamilton, who would be the template for the puck mover.

    I agree. He decided to pursue what HoS called ‘the permanent solution’ and Hall was the price.

    I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution and Chiarelli should’ve pursued a temporary solution like Goligoski or Shattenkirk (which also addresses the PP QB need in the interim) whilst Nurse develops, thus retaining Hall. That’s better asset management imo.

  16. Alpine says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Those weren’t options this summer though. We can go back and look at previously good deals and assume other similar ones pop up but in the latest time period they haven’t been. Might have seen Barrie or Trouba as on Oiler if that was the case.

    Jones cost a player similar to Hall in Johansen. NSH wanted a C, and likely would taken Hall back but preferred Johansen to RNH. The cost would have been Hall.

    Hamilton we went in for and Sweeney charged us more than he did the Flames. Nurse + picks vs just the picks. Nurse was coming off two impressive junior campaigns plus had the value of an ELC which Hamilton was done with. Didn’t cost Hall but was costing, at least for us, a lot more than most people were comfortable with.

    Goligoski cost nothing but picks but him and Boychuk are getting paid very handsomely for throughout their thirties, so the underpayment in acquisition cost is balanced out by the overpayment in cap space and term.

    Leddy is the best combination of value as far as contract and acquisition cost goes. The Oilers missed out on him but that was two years ago, and I don’t see a comparable player available for picks right now. I mentioned Barrie who clearly the Avs seem to expect an overpayment for.

    I don’t believe the Hall for Larsson deal is good value for the Oilers. It’s just not. But I don’t think we can expect a value trade to be available every summer, nor that the stars will align for us to pull it off. Nor do I expect every good LHD that we could acquire is able to play as well on his off side, nor would it be optimal for own LH options to do the same anywhere above the third pairing.

    I also don’t expect Larsson to not improve on what he is now as the older players mentioned above generally improved in their mid or late 20s. I think there’s considerable risk banking on him to become a true top pairing player, but I think most of the big arrows are going the right way for him (very good shot/chance suppression and assisting/passing).

  17. Bag of Pucks says:

    Ducey: Jones was traded for a #1C. He is not any better than Larsson. The Oilers offered Nuge. Guess who they would have had to offer instead. Even then NSH may not have taken Hall. They wanted a C. Plus Chia was likely hoping to avoid trading Hall and expected he could get something done in June.

    Hamilton was traded last year for less than what the Oilers offered. Any evidence CGY is trading him? No. Not unless you overpay.

    Goligoski. He is a LHD, as is Leddy

    Boychuk can be had but he sucks. His fancy stats are poor. He has 6 yrs on his contract that pays him $6 M a year until he is 38. That’s a boat anchor. Plus he has a no trade. If that is your solution for RHD , wow.

    RE Jones and Hamilton, why are we always so quick to believe Oiler spin when another GM beats them to the punch? Do we believe everything we read? Their business is dependent on maintaining customer goodwill.

    I believe it’s better to judge them by their actions or lack thereof rather than their rhetoric/excuses.

  18. Bag of Pucks says:

    If the price for Seth Jones was Draisaitl, do you do that deal over Hall for Larsson?

    Really surprising to me that everyone agreed you only trade Hall for a proven top pairing D and now we’re onboard with the return being far from ‘proven.’

  19. Alpine says:

    Bag of Pucks: RE Jones and Hamilton, why are we always so quick to believe Oiler spin when another GM beats them to the punch? Do we believe everything we read? Their business is dependent on maintaining customer goodwill.

    I believe it’s better to judge them by their actions or lack thereof rather than their rhetoric/excuses.

    Friedman reported that the Bruins wanted more from the Oilers, and the Oilers wouldn’t include Nurse.

  20. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Bag of Pucks: I agree. He decided to pursue what HoS called ‘the permanent solution’ and Hall was the price.

    I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution and Chiarelli should’ve pursued a temporary solution like Goligoski or Shattenkirk (which also addresses the PP QB need in the interim) whilst Nurse develops, thus retaining Hall. That’s better asset management imo.

    I haven’t heard too many people around here say “I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution” but I like it!

  21. Bag of Pucks says:

    Alpine: Friedman reported that the Bruins wanted more from the Oilers, and the Oilers wouldn’t include Nurse.

    Yeah, the Oilers can feed this spin to any mouthpiece they want. All the better if its a mouthpiece respected in the analytics community (ie their harshest and most vigilant critics). Katz is not going to jeopardize a multimillion $ business with poor PR. The Oil get out in front of these things. Hence Lucic presser the day after the Hall trade.

  22. Chachi says:

    Bag of Pucks: Yeah, the Oilers can feed this spin to any mouthpiece they want. All the better if its a mouthpiece respected in the analytics community (ie their harshest and most vigilant critics). Katz is not going to jeopardize a multimillion $ business with poor PR. The Oil get out in front of these things. Hence Lucic presser the day after the Hall trade.

    Is it fair to say then that there is nothing that could be reported by the media or said directly by the Oilers that could make you think they pursued other options over the last year before trading Hall for Larsson?

  23. ~ Hall of Shame ~ says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes: I haven’t heard too many people around here say “I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution” but I like it!

    There is a limit to the number of players Player Safety will allow Niurse to shutdown permanently.

  24. LadiesloveSmid says:

    LT,

    What would you say your split was in Yakcelly lovers and Yakcelly detractors? Thanks to your RT Paul Almeida followed me and being the courteous guy I am, I’m gonna have to read him tweet about Portugal and comparing Ronaldo’s slides to Yakupov’s. Thanks for nothing!!

    Just listening to your show now, you hated your suggestion of Pooj as a nickname for Poolparty. If 93 and Jesse click, I think Poogent-Höpkins would be fantastic

  25. Bag of Pucks says:

    Chachi: Is it fair to say then that there is nothing that could be reported by the media or said directly by the Oilers that could make you think they pursued other options over the last year before trading Hall for Larsson?

    I suggest the world isn’t ‘black and white’ and you ask for a ‘black and white’ answer.

    It’s possible they pursued other options. Don’t care. I judge them on their actions vs the actions of other GMs. Other GMs secured good D for less. It’s a results oriented business and I’m not much for excuses,

  26. ChewbaccasBarber says:

    Is time for the tinfoil hats?

  27. Lowetide says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    LT,

    What would you say your split was in Yakcelly lovers and Yakcelly detractors? Thanks to your RT Paul Almeida followed me and being the courteous guy I am, I’m gonna have to read him tweet about Portugal and comparing Ronaldo’s slides to Yakupov’s. Thanks for nothing!!

    Just listening to your show now, you hated your suggestion of Pooj as a nickname for Poolparty. If 93 and Jesse click, I think Poogent-Höpkins would be fantastic

    Haha, Almeida is a great guy, you will grow to love him. 🙂

  28. Chachi says:

    Bag of Pucks: I suggest the world isn’t ‘black and white’ and you ask for a ‘black and white’ answer.

    It’s possible they pursued other options. Don’t care. I judge them on their actions vs the actions of other GMs. Other GMs secured good D for less. It’s a results oriented business and I’m not much for excuses,

    The only reason I ask is that people seem to be expending a lot of effort to convince you of something that you have pretty firmly made up your mind about. Just trying to save some people some time, that’s all.

  29. Ducey says:

    Bag of Pucks: RE Jones and Hamilton, why are we always so quick to believe Oiler spin when another GM beats them to the punch? Do we believe everything we read? Their business is dependent on maintaining customer goodwill.

    I believe it’s better to judge them by their actions or lack thereof rather than their rhetoric/excuses.

    This is becoming tiresome.

    Who were the Oilers going to offer for Jones that was better than Ryan Jo? Are you saying Chia could have beat that with a bunch of lesser players?

    If the insiders say Nuge was offered it makes sense given the eventual return for Jones.

    Maybe he offered Hall instead. How does this help your complaint?

    It’s kind of tough to reason with someone whose position when presented with the best facts we know simply says “we can’t believe anything we read”.

    I’m out.

  30. frjohnk says:

    Bag of Pucks: I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution and Chiarelli should’ve pursued a temporary solution like Goligoski or Shattenkirk (which also addresses the PP QB need in the interim) whilst Nurse develops, thus retaining Hall. That’s better asset management imo.

    We are better off trading for potential than waiting for it.

  31. Bag of Pucks says:

    Chachi: The only reason I ask is that people seem to be expending a lot of effort to convince you of something that you have pretty firmly made up your mind about. Just trying to save some people some time, that’s all.

    I’m firmly of the opinion that there’s no good reason to make a bad trade. This is where I diverge from those rationalizing this trade as a positive.

  32. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Woodguy,

    do you like Larsson any more or any less since starting this project with GMoney? or will it be in the blog you’re putting up this weekend

  33. Bag of Pucks says:

    frjohnk: We are better off trading for potential than waiting for it.

    Proof?

  34. Bag of Pucks says:

    Ducey: This is becoming tiresome.

    Who were the Oilers going to offer for Jones that was better than Ryan Jo? Are you saying Chia could have beat that with a bunch of lesser players?

    If the insiders say Nuge was offered it makes sense given the eventual return for Jones.

    Maybe he offered Hall instead. How does this help your complaint?

    It’s kind of tough to reason with someone whose position when presented with the best facts we know simply says “we can’t believe anything we read”.

    I’m out.

    Guessing you didn’t read the Draisaitl for Jones post/question?

    The reason you find my argument tiresome is because your argument is predicated on accepting the excuses of Oiler management at face value. Deeds not words.

  35. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Bag of Pucks: I agree. He decided to pursue what HoS called ‘the permanent solution’ and Hall was the price.

    I would suggest Nurse is the permanent shutdown solution and Chiarelli should’ve pursued a temporary solution like Goligoski or Shattenkirk (which also addresses the PP QB need in the interim) whilst Nurse develops, thus retaining Hall. That’s better asset management imo.

    The rumours were that if Shattenkirk would re-sign in Edmonton, Hall would have been a blue.

  36. Gret99zky says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Should Chia have kept Hall, passed on Lucic and (if nothing presented itself) stood pat on D?

  37. JimmyV1965 says:

    I hated the Hall trade and I will never be convinced that Chia couldn’t work out a better deal. I just can’t fathom the Devils turning down something like JP and the 2017 first round pick, or something like that. Having said all this, I’ve grown fatigued with the battle. Let’s all just give it up and see where the pieces fall. I do think the team is better…short term anyway…and there’s something to be said about that. Of course, if the Oil suck again this year I’m digging out the longshank for Chia in the spring.

  38. gogliano says:

    Bag of Pucks: Guessing you didn’t read the Draisaitl for Jones post/question?

    The reason you find my argument tiresome is because your argument is predicated on accepting the excuses of Oiler management at face value. Deeds not words.

    Draisatl isn’t close to Johansen in value. Draisatl isn’t getting you Seth Jones if CLB is offering up Johansen.

  39. T0ML says:

    Bag of Pucks: Drai

    Would I? Yes, However Nash would have had a better deal still, as it stands (and over the next year or two) Ry Jo is 100% the better player, in a year or two it *might* level out. But they get a #1c by paying what was essentially their #3RD (Regardless of what people think, Jones WAS the #3 RD on the preds at the time of the trade, potential be damned, thats what he was).

  40. Bag of Pucks says:

    gogliano: Draisatl isn’t close to Johansen in value.Draisatl isn’t getting you Seth Jones if CLB is offering up Johansen.

    Draisaitl was drafted higher, and is on a more favourable contract than RyJo. Poile is smart enough to trade for today and tomorrow, not just today’s value.

  41. Bag of Pucks says:

    Gret99zky:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Should Chia have kept Hall, passed on Lucic and (if nothing presented itself) stood pat on D?

    Why does he have to pass on Lucic? Cos Lucic only comes if Hall is gone?

  42. frjohnk says:

    Bag of Pucks: Proof?

    tongue in cheek

  43. ~ Hall of Shame ~ says:

    Gret99zky:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Should Chia have kept Hall, passed on Lucic and (if nothing presented itself) stood pat on D?

    Hall + Lucic > Lucic + Pouliot

  44. Gret99zky says:

    I find the Hall Trade Debate quite interesting, TBH. Dog days of summer. Lots of good points for and against.

    The results next season will bring some clarity.

  45. Bag of Pucks says:

    frjohnk: tongue in cheek

    Gotcha.

  46. Gret99zky says:

    Bag of Pucks: Why does he have to pass on Lucic? Cos Lucic only comes if Hall is gone?

    Dunno. Does he?

    Edit: If not, sign Lucic and stand pat?

  47. Gret99zky says:

    ~ Hall of Shame ~: Hall + Lucic > Lucic + Pouliot

    On Offense sure.

  48. Bag of Pucks says:

    Gret99zky: Dunno.Does he?

    I suspect it to be true but we have no way on knowing for sure.

  49. T0ML says:

    Bag of Pucks: Draisaitl was drafted higher, and is on a more favourable contract than RyJo. Poile is smart enough to trade for today and tomorrow, not just today’s value.

    He might have been, but Polie is also in win now mode (Or at the time with an aging Webber). Ry Jo is also under team control, where as Drai would be in a similar spot *at the same time*. Both contracts end at the same time. Sure you might get Drai a bit cheaper next contract than Ry Jo, but I doubt the beginning of both next contracts that Drai is the better player (And I am a massive Drai fan)…..Its not like Johansen is in a horrible contract spot (Still an RFA), and better yet he has proven himself to be a #1C, Drai has not even proven to be a #2C for more than a ~30 game stretch after which he collapsed.

  50. T0ML says:

    Bag of Pucks: I suspect it to be true but we have no way on knowing for sure.

    I can also say I suspect the other side as well, Lucic was not necessarily coming with Hall here. Right now we are in a decent spot salary wise for what is spent on our LW, and in all honesty it is not like we lost our only offensive player, we lost *one* of our most offensive but we do have more for sure.

  51. Chachi says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’m firmly of the opinion that there’s no good reason to make a bad trade. This is where I diverge from those rationalizing this trade as a positive.

    I agree with you about the bad trade. I disagree that Nashville would have taken Draisaitl over Johansen for Jones. No way.

  52. Bag of Pucks says:

    Chachi: I agree with you about the bad trade. I disagree that Nashville would have taken Draisaitl over Johansen for Jones. No way.

    I don’t disagree. It’s not essential to the discussion. Just curious as to whether Oiler fans would’ve found that trade more palatable than the Hall trade.

  53. frjohnk says:

    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

  54. Chachi says:

    Bag of Pucks: I don’t disagree. It’s not essential to the discussion. Just curious as to whether Oiler fans would’ve fan that trade more palatable than the Hall trade.

    I would have preferred that trade to the Hall trade for sure.

  55. kinger_OIL says:

    – Still in awe that MacT, an employee in hockey management, says he was against the Hall trade

    – Good reporters should go to town on this, flesh it out. Get MacT to spill the beans, bury him.

    – That MacT and Howson are part of the structure still must be so frustating to Chia. Mickey Mouse

    – I suppose it reflects poorly on Chia as well, that he doesn’t have the buy-in to punt personel who have been so poor in their previous posts…

  56. T0ML says:

    Bag of Pucks: I don’t disagree. It’s not essential to the discussion. Just curious as to whether Oiler fans would’ve found that trade more palatable than the Hall trade.

    Yes

    But that trade was not even an option (from *any* report ive seen), thats the same as the blue sky of Drai + Picks for Subban, that was not happening.

  57. Cahoon says:

    This is all speculation on my part, but does anyone think that maybe Lucic wanted some proof that Chia was serious about having a balanced line-up BEFORE he would sign here. It IS in fact possible that the Lucic deal was contingent on the Hall deal (or something similar).

  58. Chachi says:

    frjohnk:
    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

    Even if he does I doubt it ever goes away.

  59. Bag of Pucks says:

    frjohnk:
    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

    Presumably Chiarelli knew this when he pulled the trigger?

  60. Bag of Pucks says:

    T0ML: Yes

    But that trade was not even an option (from *any* report ive seen), thats the same as the blue sky of Drai + Picks for Subban, that was not happening.

    Sometimes it’s useful to explore hypotheticals to try and eliminate biases.

  61. Bag of Pucks says:

    Chachi: I would have preferred that trade to the Hall trade for sure.

    Oddly enough, I don’t and I really like Seth Jones. I think I have a big C fetish.

  62. spoiler says:

    “There are better trades out there but let’s make a bad trade, so at least it will give the internet something to talk about.”

    –P. Chiapetti

  63. Bag of Pucks says:

    T0ML: He might have been, but Polie is also in win now mode (Or at the time with an aging Webber).Ry Jo is also under team control, where as Drai would be in a similar spot *at the same time*.Both contracts end at the same time.Sure you might get Drai a bit cheaper next contract than Ry Jo, but I doubt the beginning of both next contracts that Drai is the better player (And I am a massive Drai fan)…..Its not like Johansen is in a horrible contract spot (Still an RFA), and better yet he has proven himself to be a #1C, Drai has not even proven to be a #2C for more than a ~30 game stretch after which he collapsed.

    Agreed. It’s pure speculation what Poile would and would not do.

  64. Gret99zky says:

    frjohnk:
    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

    Maybe not.

    What if Hall plays less than 60 games for the Devils next year?

  65. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Kassian scored at 1.84 P/60 last year, and 1.91 P/60 two years ago. You wonder if his off-ice problems diminished some of his talent level, or if coming to camp in shape not mid season could lead to a big year from him. Maybe he goes 17-18-35 on the 3rd line

  66. frjohnk says:

    Bag of Pucks: frjohnk:
    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

    Presumably Chiarelli knew this when he pulled the trigger?

    I don’t think he is too concerned about what people think about his moves. He is mainly focused on making this a better team. And it seems like he will do it at any cost.

    IF Larsson does not grow into the top pairing Dman that we need and we just used our biggest tradeable bullet in that transaction, now what?

  67. Bag of Pucks says:

    frjohnk: I don’t think he is too concerned about what people think about his moves.He is mainly focused on making this a better team.And it seems like he will do it at any cost.

    IF Larsson does not grow into the top pairing Dman that we need and we just used our biggest tradeable bullet in that transaction, now what?

    Pitchforks and torches in the Winter Garden?

  68. frjohnk says:

    Bag of Pucks: Pitchforks and torches in the Winter Garden?

    As long as they are right handed pitchforks

  69. Bag of Pucks says:

    frjohnk: As long as they are right handed pitchforks

    Too pricey.

  70. Chachi says:

    Bag of Pucks: Oddly enough, I don’t and I really like Seth Jones. I think I have a big C fetish.

    Not sure Draisatl ends up being a full time centre when all is said and done.

  71. frjohnk says:

    Gret99zky: Maybe not.

    What if Hall plays less than 60 games for the Devils next year?

    Hall has established himself as a top line player. Larsson is not there……yet. He might get there.

    Oilers luck would be that Hall plays 82 games, scores over a point a game.
    Larsson gets hit in his 1st shift. Separated shoulder, torn rotator cuff, gone for the year.

  72. jfry says:

    Do you have a link for this?

    kinger_OIL:
    – Still in awe that MacT, an employee in hockey management, says he was against the Hall trade

    – Good reporters should go to town on this, flesh it out.Get MacT to spill the beans, bury him.

    – That MacT and Howson are part of the structure still must be so frustating to Chia.Mickey Mouse

    – I suppose it reflects poorly on Chia as well, that he doesn’t have the buy-in to punt personel who have been so poor in their previous posts…

  73. Bag of Pucks says:

    Chachi: Not sure Draisatl ends up being a full time centre when all is said and done.

    True dat. Chia talks about him on the wing a LOT.

  74. frjohnk says:

    kinger_OIL: – Still in awe that MacT, an employee in hockey management, says he was against the Hall trade

    I know that Stauffer has mentioned that when MacT was GM it was known that MacT wouldn’t trade Hall.

    Did MacT say today that he was against the trade?

  75. kinger_OIL says:

    jfry:
    Do you have a link for this?

    – It was in the last post: Stauffer reported it, that MacT was against Hall trade, and was picked up…

  76. Gret99zky says:

    frjohnk:

    Oilers luck would be that Hall plays 82 games, scores over a point a game.

    You forgot score the game winner against the Oilers twice this year and then talk smack about the org in a Spector interview.

    frjohnk:
    Larsson gets hit in his 1st shift. Separated shoulder, torn rotator cuff, gone for the year.

    This is so depressingly pessimistic and, at the same time, totally believable/probable.

  77. Gordies Elbow says:

    Hall’s a great player, but he didn’t fit in the system that Chiarelli and McLellan want. I wouldn’t be shocked if the rumors he’s been on the block since January are true.

    That said, “welcome to the 2-1-2 forecheck offense.” It’s a mostly defensive structure, focused on overloading specific roles at points and time. So, what does it look like?

    F2 (McDavid, RNH, Draisail when not playing right wing) plays the puck from the opposing blue line to just south of the goal line in the corner. For this example, say the puck is played to the right of the goalie.

    The opposing right defender turns and goes to retrieve the puck in the corner. He has a decision to make as to where the puck goes.

    F1 (Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon) comes in along the boards to cover the half wall tight to prevent passes. It’s a short distance (relative to the entire ice surface) which helps those players that aren’t as fleet of foot. They come in hard to remind defenders that they don’t have any time with the puck. Their job is to prevent the pass to the opposing teams right winger. The defender is picking the puck up in a challenging position (the “place” in “place and chase.”) In this case, size is generally better than speed, as hits encourage the defenders to quickly move the puck, which leads to turnovers. The defender who holds the puck tends to get drilled. The safest play for the defender is a quick out around the back, behind the net, to their partner. That’s where F2 comes back into the picture.

    F2’s job is to get to the goal line on the same side as the puck holder, keeping the other defender (the “post” defender) pinned in front of the net. F1 has the up-ice pass covered, and F2 has the cross defender pass covered. You need players with speed to cover and prevent the cross pass. If the behind the net pass isn’t available, and the chip up the boards isn’t available, the defender is in a bad position. They’re not going to move the puck up the middle, so generally they swallow it, and take the hit from the incoming F1. If F1 gets the puck, F2 is well positioned for a shot, or to move the puck to the point or F3. If they gain control, F1 and F2 can cycle the puck, wearing down the opposing defender.

    When F1 and F2 are establishing control, F3 (Eberle, Yakupov, Kassian) move into the slot, directly in line between the post (in front of goalie) defender and the far side winger. Their job, if possible, is to line up parallel to the post defenders back. If they can see his number, parallel to their feet, the defender can’t see them. The post defender is likely watching his partner at this time, as they’re trying to figure out what the outlet will be. They are also the backside defender, and retreat with the defenders to the neutral zone to play a three man trap if the puck is lost without control.

    It’s a hard system to defend if you have the right players, and teams like Boston, San Jose and LA have played it to a “T.” You can argue it’s a poor decision to run an overload offense, but Edmonton now has a number of players that can play that system.

    Like it or not, we’re seeing a significant shift in style and philosophy.

  78. frjohnk says:

    kinger_OIL: – It was in the last post: Stauffer reported it, that MacT was against Hall trade, and was picked up…

    words on this blog can get spun out of context.

    I’m not a huge of MacT but until I see more evidence, I’m gonna believe Bob said today what he has said before that when Mact was GM “he was against trading Taylor Hall.”

    If MacT said today “he was against Taylor Hall trade”( which would be a bit of a power struggle indication), Staples would already have an article with the first sentence starting like this

    “This just in…”

  79. admiralmark says:

    Bag of Pucks: True dat. Chia talks about him on the wing a LOT.

    Remember when Messier learnt his craft starting on the wing? Might not be a bad thing?

  80. Bag of Pucks says:

    admiralmark: Remember when Messier learnt his craft starting on the wing? Might not be a bad thing?

    Yep, I’m not against it. I prefer Leon in the Top 6.

  81. Chachi says:

    Gordies Elbow:
    Hall’s a great player, but he didn’t fit in the system that Chiarelli and McLellan want. I wouldn’t be shocked if the rumors he’s been on the block since January are true.

    That said, “welcome to the 2-1-2 forecheck offense.” It’s a mostly defensive structure, focused on overloading specific roles at points and time. So, what does it look like?

    F2 (McDavid, RNH, Draisail when not playing right wing) plays the puck from the opposing blue line to just south of the goal line in the corner. For this example, say the puck is played to the right of the goalie.

    The opposing right defender turns and goes to retrieve the puck in the corner. He has a decision to make as to where the puck goes.

    F1 (Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon) comes in along the boards to cover the half wall tight to prevent passes. It’s a short distance (relative to the entire ice surface) which helps those players that aren’t as fleet of foot. They come in hard to remind defenders that they don’t have any time with the puck. Their job is to prevent the pass to the opposing teams right winger. The defender is picking the puck up in a challenging position (the “place” in “place and chase.”) In this case, size is generally better than speed, as hits encourage the defenders to quickly move the puck, which leads to turnovers. The defender who holds the puck tends to get drilled. The safest play for the defender is a quick out around the back, behind the net, to their partner. That’s where F2 comes back into the picture.

    F2’s job is to get to the goal line on the same side as the puck holder, keeping the other defender (the “post” defender) pinned in front of the net. F1 has the up-ice pass covered, and F2 has the cross defender pass covered. You need players with speed to cover and prevent the cross pass. If the behind the net pass isn’t available, and the chip up the boards isn’t available, the defender is in a bad position. They’re not going to move the puck up the middle, so generally they swallow it, and take the hit from the incoming F1. If F1 gets the puck, F2 is well positioned for a shot, or to move the puck to the point or F3. If they gain control, F1 and F2 can cycle the puck, wearing down the opposing defender.

    When F1 and F2 are establishing control, F3 (Eberle, Yakupov, Kassian) move into the slot, directly in line between the post (in front of goalie) defender and the far side winger. Their job, if possible, is to line up parallel to the post defenders back. If they can see his number, parallel to their feet, the defender can’t see them. The post defender is likely watching his partner at this time, as they’re trying to figure out what the outlet will be. They are also the backside defender, and retreat with the defenders to the neutral zone to play a three man trap if the puck is lost without control.

    It’s a hard system to defend if you have the right players, and teams like Boston, San Jose and LA have played it to a “T.” You can argue it’s a poor decision to run an overload offense, but Edmonton now has a number of players that can play that system.

    Like it or not, we’re seeing a significant shift in style and philosophy.

    Great breakdown. I think we should be prepared to see other players who do not fit the system to be moved along at some point especially 2 of the 3 players you listed as “F3”.

  82. Bag of Pucks says:

    GordiesElbow, Hall potentially playing C was once a consideration. Would he not project well as a speedy C in this overload system, even moreso than Leon?

  83. Gordies Elbow says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    GordiesElbow, Hall potentially playing C was once a consideration. Would he not project well as a speedy C in this overload system, even more so than Leon?

    Hall’s biggest asset is gaining the zone with speed, not dumping the puck into the corner and covering the goal line (which is what the centre needs to do, in this system.)

    I see McLellan using Leon as a right winger, as he’s an F1 from the right (like Kassian,) whereby defenders will move pucks to avoid the hits.

  84. Bag of Pucks says:

    Gordies Elbow: Hall’s biggest asset is gaining the zone with speed, not dumping the puck into the corner and covering the goal line (which is what the centre needs to do, in this system.)

    I see McLellan using Leon as a right winger, as he’s an F1 from the right (like Kassian,) whereby defenders will move pucks to avoid the hits.

    If that’s the case, it’s hard to appreciate this system making the best use of McDavid’s assets.

    This gets more depressing by the minute.

  85. McSorley33 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I don’t care if RH pitchforks are too pricey…..traded my 2010 Porsche for one.

    It was a need. I had to have it right now. I mean now.

    Had to address my need.

    #Balance

  86. Gordies Elbow says:

    Bag of Pucks: If that’s the case, it’s hard to appreciate this system making the best use of McDavid’s assets.

    This gets more depressing by the minute.

    Erie played a similar system, when Connor played there.

  87. godot10 says:

    frjohnk:
    If Larsson does not become a top pairing Dman on this team, this debate will never go away.

    Larsson is being paid like an average 2nd pairing defensemen for the next five years. If Larsson plays like a #3, like Sekera, that is a good results, for over $1.25 million dollars per season less.

    What Larsson has that Demers doesn’t, is the potential to be a #2, and actually handle the top forwards in the league. Demers is 28 and is a 2nd pairing defensemen. He would have been over his head as a 1st pairing guy. McLellan clearly must of felt this.

    So Larsson is paid fair value for what he already is, and will be a value contract if he reaches his potential, whereas Demers would be a slightly over paid 2nd pairing D for the duration of his contract.

    Larsson is a far better bet than Demers. Lucic fits McLellan’s system better than Hall. Hall is a better player than Lucic.

    Chiarelli and McLellan determined that they preferred Lucic and Larsson over Hall and Demers.

    And Chiarelli and New Jersey both couldn’t wait till July 1. Chiarelli had to have one D before July 1 or the prices for D would have gone up even higher.

    Chiarelli can afford to be patient now looking for the 2nd D.

  88. Bag of Pucks says:

    McSorley33:
    Bag of Pucks,

    I don’t care if RH pitchforks are too pricey…..traded my 2010 Porsche for one.

    It was a need. I had to have it right now. I mean now.

    Had to address my need.

    #Balance

    As long as you got the pitchfork that can QB a PP, you did well. Oh wait…

  89. Gordies Elbow says:

    Chachi,

    Yep. It becomes apparent when you type it out, they have the wrong guys in those roles.

  90. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10
    What Larsson has that Demers doesn’t, is the potential to be a #2, and actually handle the top forwards in the league.

    That’s the return for a first OV pick entering his prime. You couldn’t dream this script up if you tried.

  91. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Bag of Pucks: That’s the return for a first OV pick entering his prime. You couldn’t dream this script up if you tried.

    I read this script over 2 weeks ago

  92. Bag of Pucks says:

    LadiesloveSmid: I read this script over 2 weeks ago

    I’m looking forward to the ending when we wake to find it was all just a bad dream…just a dream.

  93. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’m looking forward to the ending when we wake to find it was all just a bad dream…just a dream.

    I’ve formed a significant blockade in my mind. Hall is injured, already out for the season and Larsson was acquired for picks. Other dream is Hall signs back with the oilers some day, may have to be at the age Smyth was when he returned as I can’t imagine Hallsy cares for this management group anymore

  94. Moose knuckle says:

    Lots of good points in here. I think we are starting to get some depth in the defence. Don’t crucify me here. But a lot of high picks and some mid to late rounders hopefully coming. Bear Jones paigin Dillon Simpson isn’t done developing yet. Guys like nurse Reinhart. Oesterle ?? It’s close to turning around a couple more pieces and we should be competitive.

    Hall is an awesome player and he drove play like few in the league. But at the end of the day I think he didn’t make the players around him better. Let’s put it this way a line with rnh eberle and hall scores at the same rate as line with rnh eberle and pouliot( no I didn’t do the math so whatever). Hall needs the puck. Which is fine. But he plays with two other players that can handle it and make plays too. Honestly I think we will be a better team without him. Larsson and Lucic will make up for it while giving rnh and eberle a serious wake up call. It’s going to be interesting and more than likely very frustrating at time. Because oilers.

  95. Chachi says:

    Gordies Elbow:
    Chachi,

    Yep. It becomes apparent when you type it out, they have the wrong guys in those roles.

    This is how Poolparty, at the age of 18 comes in and probably plays the coach’s system better than the veterans ahead of him and makes himself a lock for the roster, regardless of whether it is best for his development.

  96. Colieo87 says:

    Breaking news

    Body of Taliyah Marsman found, Edward Downey charged with first degree murder. May her and her mother rest in peace. This story hits close to home. Im so sad right now. 5 years old. Aweeee

  97. hunter1909 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Hall signs back with the oilers some day, may have to be at the age Smyth was when he returned as I can’t imagine Hallsy cares for this management group anymore

    The good news: I never figured Hall was going to be good for more than a ten season(Cam Neely) type career. There’s only four more years to wait. Of course on a real team he’d have already played for the cup by now.

    The bad news: Hall was and remains one of the top forwards in hockey. Top ten in any list I’m making and only McDavid approaches this high level on the Oilers. If we’re dreaming of a multiple cup winner Hall needs to be on the team, but given the absolute wasting of his initial 6 seasons it’s probably better for everyone except Oiler fans that he gets away from Lowe+MacT; MacT astonishingly waving his fat arse on stage at the recent draft(thank you Youtube).

    Incredible Theory: Chiarelli+McLellan both slowly getting compromised by the Lowe+MacT school of Katz infighting. Both wanted Hall gone, keeping their eyes firmly down the road when Oilers will be a successful contender for dynasty status etc blah blah freaking blah. In other words they’ve both joined “The Program”.

    I’m wondering how long it will take to start hating Taylor Hall. I already hate Lowe+MacT.

    PREDICTION: Chiarelli+McLellan will both be gone within 2-3 seasons, leaving Lowe+MacT exactly where they were for as long as Darryl Katz owns the team which should be for another 4-5 years…by then Shawn Horcoff will be a top Oilers executive and Katz will be walking with a limp.

  98. theres oil in virginia says:

    frjohnk: words on this blog can get spun out of context.

    I’m not a huge of MacT but until I see more evidence, I’m gonna believe Bob said today what he has said before that when Mact was GM “he was against trading Taylor Hall.”

    If MacT said today “he was against Taylor Hall trade”( which would be a bit of a power struggle indication), Staples would already have an article with the first sentence starting like this

    “This just in…”

    Thanks for posting this. I’m a huge fan of MacT the player, not as much a fan of the coach, and less so the GM. But facts are facts, and people’s frustrations lead them to bend or parse the facts to suit their narrative.

    As far as I can tell, what we know is that Stauffer said that MacT was against trading Hall. We don’t know how he knows this (did MacT say this directly to him? – we don’t know.) or when he is talking about, unless there is more context from other things he said along with this.

    It is easily forgotten that, according to Chiarelli, MacT was quitting the org after being relieved as GM, but Chiarelli asked him to stay. That, of course, doesn’t fit the “power struggle” narrative.

  99. sliderule says:

    Just when you think that the oilers are going to get rid of the stink of the old management the oilers blindside you with new moves.

    Replace Stu with Green then they do the oilers thing and draft the son of an aquantence (hockey Canada connection) just like they have done multiple times before.I know sixth round but the odds say three teams are going to get a player.The oilers throw away their chances by picking a player with connections and who is not an overager which is we’re the gold is.

    You don’t get rid of your stinky socks by throwing them in the back of the closet.The smell will come back and hit you at the worst time.

  100. jonrmcleod says:

    I got it straight from the horse’s mouth that Stauffer said nothing about MacT being against the Hall-Larsson trade.

  101. Jethro Tull says:

    jonrmcleod:
    I got it straight from the horse’s mouth that Stauffer said nothing about MacT being against the Hall-Larsson trade.

    Sorry Jon, but you’re going to have to do better. What is this horses name? His motivation? I own horses. Don’t trust ’em. Always snickering behind your back.

  102. Soup Fascist says:

    Sure the 7th round is long shots – but they can be important. As noted the Oilers selected a couple of hulking project D in the last two years.

    Too bad no one had that philosophy in 2011 when Colton Parayko went undrafted in his 1st year of eligibility. An excellent 3rd round pick in 2012 for the Blues could have been had in the 7th round the year before by anyone.

    Lots of stories like that, and all 30 teams passed – but given the current holes in this team – that one seems to hurt the most.

  103. Water Fire says:

    sliderule:
    Just when you think that the oilers are going to get rid of the stink of the old management the oilers blindside you with new moves.

    Replace Stu with Green then they do the oilers thing and draft the son of an aquantence (hockey Canada connection) just like they have done multiple times before.I know sixth round but the odds say three teams are going to get a player.The oilers throw away their chances by picking a player with connections and who is not an overager which is we’re the gold is.

    You don’t get rid of your stinky socks by throwing them in the back of the closet.The smell will come back and hit you at the worst time.

    I think drafting McFee’s son is really smart. First, he is a decent hockey player in Chia’s style. No matter what this pick likely doesn’t make it.

    Second, his selection may very well provide cover for a roster player they wish to keep. For sure there is a natural relationship there, and McPhee was emotional about his son being drafted. If Chia was to ask George to take a pick and not select a certain player I would say the odds are far higher he cooperates than other teams now.

  104. Water Fire says:

    Soup Fascist:
    Sure the 7th round is long shots – but they can be important. As noted the Oilers selected a couple of hulking project D in the last two years.

    Too bad no one had that philosophy in 2011 when Colton Parayko went undrafted in his 1st year of eligibility. An excellent 3rd round pick in 2012 for the Blues could have been had in the 7th roundthe year before by anyone.

    Lots of stories like that, and all 30 teams passed – but given the current holes in this team – that one seems to hurt the most.

    From what I read he wasn’t 6’5″ then. They just got dumb lucky. With all the bad luck the Oilers have had they’re due.

  105. Water Fire says:

    With the Hall trade what we need to get out of this is that they are done throwing away assets. There is no good reason now, the roster has one hole and it’s not a front line player.

    If there is another blood letting it will be time for serious concern and billboards. That will be a clear sign of people being in control who do not understand NHL hockey.

    Maybe roller derby. There’s a few leagues around.

  106. Hemsky is a gangsta says:

    FWIW the only place I saw “MacT was against trading Hall” was on the TreenasOil twitter account

  107. Gordies Elbow says:

    Chachi: This is how Poolparty, at the age of 18 comes in and probably plays the coach’s system better than the veterans ahead of him and makes himself a lock for the roster, regardless of whether it is best for his development.

    I hope not, but if you see Draisaitl and Puljujarvi on the right wing, and Lucic, Pouliot, and Maroon on the left during a game early in the season, don’t be shocked.

    Looking at the system that they’re wanting to deploy, it’s clear that Eberle and Yakupov don’t fit. They can keep one, but I’d expect that the preference is to move both players. In a perfect world, they need a heavy right shooting centre for the 3rd line, and need to move Draisaitl to the wing to take advantage.

    I hope one of Taylor Beck, Tyler Pitlick, or Anton Slepyshev makes the jump this year, and that Puljujarvi plays at least 30 games in Bakersfield. Hope.

  108. magisterrex says:

    The post Hall trade discussion has gotten repetitive.

    Time for a new horse to beat.

    Does anyone think MacT stunted Rob Schremp’s development?

    Speaking of trades, how did KLowe do on the Comrie deal?

    And what about that Omark fellah?

    Gord save us.

  109. GCW_69 says:

    godot10: Larsson is being paid like an average 2nd pairing defensemen for the next five years.If Larsson plays like a #3, like Sekera, that is a good results, for over $1.25 million dollars per season less.

    What Larsson has that Demers doesn’t, is the potential to be a #2, and actually handle the top forwards in the league.Demers is 28 and is a 2nd pairing defensemen.He would have been over his head as a 1st pairing guy.McLellan clearly must of felt this.

    So Larsson is paid fair value for what he already is, and will be a value contract if he reaches his potential, whereas Demers would be a slightly over paid 2nd pairing D for the duration of his contract.

    Larsson is a far better bet than Demers.Lucic fits McLellan’s system better than Hall.Hall is a better player than Lucic.

    Chiarelli and McLellan determined that they preferred Lucic and Larsson over Hall and Demers.

    And Chiarelli and New Jersey both couldn’t wait till July 1.Chiarelli had to have one D before July 1 or the prices for D would have gone up even higher.

    Chiarelli can afford to be patient now looking for the 2nd D.

    Florida traditionally had a 10% advantage over Alberta teams due to Florida’s lack of state income tax vs Alberta’s flat tax. With Notley, the rate is increasing to 15%. Therefore, to match the Panthers’ offer, Edmonton would have had to offer ~$5.2M just to match Florida. Likely more if they wanted to overcome the other advantages Florida has.

    So, there is no guarantee Demers would have signed here. Maybe if you offered $5.75M and tacked on an extra year you could have swayed him. But the cost would have been substantial and the Oilers would not have been able to afford another highly paid defender if of Demers couldn’t handle top pair duty.

    Taking Larsson, who is paid less and didn’t have trade protection gives the Oilers flexibility that Demers would not have. That has value. We can argue how much, but it has value.

    Based on some of my previous salary cap analysis, NHL teams should spend about $20M on defence, or 27% of the cap, as a guideline.

    Overall, cap allocation looks like this:

    Group………….Avg………Edmonton committed
    Forwards…….54%………49%
    Defence………27%………21% excluding Larsson
    Goalies……….10%……….7%
    Other …………..9% (21st to 23rd roster players, bonuses, call ups for injured players not on LTIR, retained cap space for deadline deals)

    The oilers currently have about $5M to play with extra at forward based on the current roster, excluding Jesse and his bonuses). But, the Oilers need to be careful in using it because when Leon and McDavid get paid there will be huge increases in cap space consumption. If they spend it, it should be spent on short term deals.

    With Larsson and Nurse/Osterle, the Oilers will have spent almost 27%. With a theoretical Demers at Sekera money, the Oilers would be at 29%, or over allocated by about $1.2M, which they can certainly accommodate now, but becomes trickier when McDavid gets paid.

    So, I wonder how much cap considerations factored into the decision? Screw up with Demers, and they could not afford a replacement. Screw up with Larsson, and you have the cap space for a second try.

    On another note, the Fayne impact really strands out here.

    Projecting forward, the Oilers need to get rid of Fayne next summer. Put a $1M defender on the third pair, and they have about $4M to spend on another top four defender before they have to start robbing from another part of the roster. With Fayne, that drops to $1.5M. Since the Oilers love to overpay depth players, robbing cap space from other parts of the roster will be really hard for them starting with McDavid’s next contract, or sooner if Leon has a strong year and grabs a ticket north of $5M.

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