EVEN THE LOSERS (GET LUCKY SOMETIMES)

I am always interested in knowing which scouts uncovered what players. It probably goes back to my baseball fascination, but gems taken late must have a back story—and I assume the back story on Ziyat Paigin is a good one.

OILERS SCOUTS 2014-15

  • Bob Green: Director of Player Personnel
  • Stu MacGregor: Head Amateur Scout
  • Bill Dandy: QMJHL
  • Brad Davis: OHL, tier 2 leagues in Q and O
  • Kent Hawley: OHL, QMJHL, tier 2 leagues in Q and O
  • Bob Brown: WHL (and BCJHL based on media comments)
  • Jim Crosson: WHL
  • Scott Harlow: NCAA and American junior leagues (east coast)
  • Frank Musil: Europe
  • Pelle Eklund: Europe
  • Robert Nordmark: Europe
  • Joseph Cucci: Year three, don’t know his area but it might be New England
  • Dave Heitz: Year three, goalie scout
  • Matti Virmanen: Appears to be in pro scouting now
  • Sylvain Rodrigue: Year two, goalies.

I don’t know who scouted Paigin (some of the North American group may have seen the big tournaments, he was 7, 1-2-3 in the WJs) and the scouts would have been viewing this at Christmas before he was drafted.

His draft+1 season was outstanding—elevating him from distant bell to going concern. Paigin posted that season age 20, scoring 27 points in 37 games for Sochi under coach Vyacheslav Butsayev. Earlier in the season, the young man struggled for Kazan Ak-Bars under coach Zinetula Bilyaletdinov.

What are we to do with a season like this? Hope Paigin follows up with another. The fact he returns to the scene of struggles last year is eased by the fact a new coach will be part of the scene for Kazan Ak-Bars.

  • Alexander Zavyalov (as coach) is joining the coaching staff after a move from Torpedo. He’s a man steeped in Kazan hockey after a record-breaking 14 seasons with the club. When he joined in 1990 the team was still called the Uritsky Sports Club, then had a few years as Itil (the Tatar name for the Volga river) before adopting its current identity as Ak Bars. He played 570 games, helping to win the Superleague title in 1998. Source

WHAT DO THE OILERS SAY?

Paigin was a depth pick and spiked immediately after being drafted—but was an overager. In a way, we should treat this player as a 2013 pick (in terms of evaluation). We can hope he comes over to North America for the fall of 2017 and another big year would place him in the range of an NHL job by that time.

  • Rick Carriere: “Very impressed with his size and mobility. He shoots the puck hard and brings some offence from the back end. You’re always looking for that. You can teach the defensive stuff, but you’d like to have guys who can think the game offensively and make plays with the puck on their stick, not turn it over or give up possession easily. It sounds like he’s that type of player. He’s a good puck-possession guy and he brings some mobility and a good shot.” Source

He can make a good outlet pass and his size (6.06, 209) and shot. The foot speed will be the issue—he looks fast enough but let’s see him for a season on North American ice—but this is a fascinating prospect.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Peter Chiarelli has expressed the team is aware of the importance of the lefty-righty, so Paigin must push his way past enough of the Leftorium to find a roster spot. With Oscar Klefbom, Andrej Sekera, Brandon Davidson, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart already on the roster, he would need to prove himself capable of passing at least three of these players. I would think AHL time is likely, and we shouldn’t rule out the possibility of a trade before we ever see him. The one thing that tells me PC won’t trade him? Paigin’s skill set is a very good match for team need and would allow the club to bring him along with men like Klefbom, Davidson and Nurse more established at the NHL level.

A fascinating player to follow this year.

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114 Responses to "EVEN THE LOSERS (GET LUCKY SOMETIMES)"

  1. dessert1111 says:

    If Paigin starts well in the KHL and Reinhart starts well in the AHL, I can see the Oilers being more comfortable moving Nurse for a RHD if they haven’t added one by then. If all the bubbling under LHD start well they really need to trade someone before the logjam decreases their trade value, and I dont see a more palatable way to realistically trade for a defent RHD unless a 2nd round pick gets it done with a team against the cap.

  2. frjohnk says:

    If you squint hard enough ( and after downing a few shooters) a person can see that the D depth being the strongest out of all positions.

    This Paigin kid looks like a fantastic pick at the end of the draft. More please.

    EDIT: somebody said ( one of the draft guys) that Paigin was a second round pick in a redraft half way through the year

  3. Lowetide says:

    frjohnk:
    If you squint hard enough ( and after downing a few shooters) a person can see that the D depth being the strongest out of all positions.

    This Paigin kid looks like a fantastic pick at the end of the draft.More please.

    EDIT: somebody said ( one of the draft guys) that Paigin was a second round pick in a redraft half way through the year

    I agree, that is why a trade that involves the first-round pick in 2017 and a LHD is the most obvious asset package for Edmonton.

  4. Centre of attention says:

    Paigin along with Bear, Jones and now Rasanaen are all extreme value picks IMO. If Benson can heal up and take that next step, you could add another name to the value picks section. Puljujarvi at #4 could even be considered value.

    I am encouraged by the drafting the last 2 years, again I will voice my concern with how these players may be developed. Lets hope Keith Gretzky helps in that department.

    I think the Oilers plan is to see who sinks or swims among the leftorium this season, and ship out the underachievers to clear room for Paigin to step into the top pair on the AHL squad, perhaps with Bear riding shot gun.

    PS: Paigin is Russian Chara and I don’t care what you say 😉

    BTW does anyone know if Paigin plays his off side regularly? Asking for a friend.

  5. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: I agree, that is why a trade that involves the first-round pick in 2017 and a LHD is the most obvious asset package for Edmonton.

    This is my view as well, I bet it comes at the deadline. if you say that is too late, I won’t argue.

  6. 36 percent body fat says:

    Lets not give the scouts credit. They drafted for size and got lucky.

    As for the leftorium. When he is ready, the oilers will hopefully be steady enough at d to look at moving on from sekera. Reinhart will be playing in brazil where he will hope to be able to skate better than them, musil will be claimed off of waivers by ten different teams by than, lagesson will not be signed because we know the hole gustafsson thing the oilers do and joey lag will finally be tall enough to get on the mind bender but will still no be tall enough for the NHL

    Thank God we got lucky and drafted this guy.

  7. Clay says:

    Sooner or later, one of these Russian picks has to work out – I’d be very happy if it ends up being the gigantic defenseman.

  8. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide: I agree, that is why a trade that involves the first-round pick in 2017 and a LHD is the most obvious asset package for Edmonton.

    The guys on the bubble of being exposed in the expansion draft ( Reinhart, Davidson) don’t have the value of guy like Nurse, who can not be claimed. Davidson is mostly unknown while Reinhart it would seem has struggled more than Nurse in becoming a fulltime player. Nurse has the most value right now, even though he might be 3rd in terms of what he can deliver on the ice at the moment. Some would say 2nd.

    But put it all together and Nurse and the 1st get you the most. Id hate to trade Nurse, but if it was what pushed us into the playoffs……..

  9. meanashell11 says:

    Centre of attention:
    Paigin along with Bear, Jones and now Rasanaen are all extreme value picks IMO. If Benson can heal up and take that next step, you could add another name to the value picks section. Puljujarvi at #4 could even be considered value.

    I am encouraged by the drafting the last 2 years, again I will voice my concern with how these players may be developed. Lets hope Keith Gretzky helps in that department.

    I think the Oilers plan is to see who sinks or swims among the leftorium this season, and ship out the underachievers to clear room for Paigin to step into the top pair on the AHL squad, perhaps with Bear riding shot gun.

    PS: Paigin is Russian Chara and I don’t care what you say 😉

    BTW does anyone know if Paigin plays his off side regularly? Asking for a friend.

    It appears he plays the off side at the WJC and on the power play from the video I have seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmdfZGqLkao

  10. Centre of attention says:

    meanashell11: It appears he plays the off side at the WJC and on the power play from the video I have seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmdfZGqLkao

    Yeah that’s what I figured. Something to consider for sure.

  11. russ99 says:

    frjohnk: The guys on the bubble of being exposed in the expansion draft ( Reinhart, Davidson) don’t have the value of guy like Nurse, who can not be claimed. Davidson is mostly unknown while Reinhart it would seem has struggled more than Nurse in becoming a fulltime player.Nurse has the most value right now, even though he might be 3rd in terms of what he can deliver on the ice at the moment.Some would say 2nd.

    But put it all together and Nurse and the 1st get you the most.Id hate to trade Nurse, but if it was what pushed us into the playoffs……..

    It’s a fine fine line between dumping a prospect too soon, and holding on to them too long like with Gagner and Yakupov.

    That said, Nurse’s play this year this season is going to go a long way to show everyone if he’s a keeper or not.

    IMO, he shouldn’t be dealt, since we all just saw how painful it is to acquire a solid defenseman these days. It would be nice to develop one, and Nurse checks a lot of boxes.

    If we have to deal from the young Leftorium, I’d vastly prefer the Oilers undo the Reinhart mistake than sell Nurse low and watch him blossom elsewhere.

  12. frjohnk says:

    russ99: It’s a fine fine line between dumping a prospect too soon, and holding on to them too long like with Gagner and Yakupov.

    That said, Nurse’s play this year this season is going to go a long way to show everyone if he’s a keeper or not.

    IMO, he shouldn’t be dealt, since we all just saw how painful it is to acquire a solid defenseman these days. It would be nice to develop one, and Nurse checks a lot of boxes.

    If we have to deal from the young Leftorium, I’d vastly prefer the Oilers undo the Reinhart mistake than sell Nurse low and watch him blossom elsewhere.

    I agree but Reinhart does not have the value of Nurse.

    Nurses package of size, strength, mobility, nastiness and work ethic is very tantalizing as few defensive prospects in the league have these skill sets.

    He is also very good at skating up the ice with the puck.

    But he has not been good at making the right decisions with puck. His passing and shot need to be better.

    If the game slows down for him and he puts it all together AFTER we trade him would be so typical oilers.

  13. frjohnk says:

    I should also add because Reinhart has struggled and would be exposed to the expansion draft means that he would not be the center piece of a deal to bring in what we need.

    His value could almost be compared to a 3rd pairing rental Dman.

    Nurse on the other hand , I believe has more perceived on ice value through out the league compared to Reinhart PLUS the exemption of not being exposed to the draft.

  14. JOHNNY OPERATOR76 says:

    How can trading Nurse even be a discussion at this point ? Let’s give the kid a few more years.

  15. Lloyd B. says:

    Lowetide: I agree, that is why a trade that involves the first-round pick in 2017 and a LHD is the most obvious asset package for Edmonton.

    I usually stay away from arm chair GMing because I don’t have the time to do the research. However, given this offer from Edmonton, what teams are trending down that need to restock the cupboards, is aging and might be agreeable to such an offer? A team that has a RHD of the appropriate age and skills.

    I can think of one but am sure there are others. The team on the left coast. Would an unprotected first and … gulp…Nurse, get the Oilers Tanev? I know it is a huge payment but Tanev appears to check most of the boxes the Oilers need.

    What does the Woodmoney say about Tanev?

  16. Pouzar says:

    JOHNNY OPERATOR76:
    How can trading Nurse even be a discussion at this point ? Let’s give the kid a few more years.

    You must be new here.

  17. Lowetide says:

    I cleaned up yesterday’s post, and deleted about 30 comments. I have not banned people who were involved, they are not on time out. Consider this a warning: For those who were the offending parties in last night’s post, I am also deleting the middle, time out, option.

    If you continue to disrupt the group, you will be banned from this blog permanently. No exceptions.

  18. Yeti says:

    JOHNNY OPERATOR76:
    How can trading Nurse even be a discussion at this point ? Let’s give the kid a few more years.

    Ideally, yes, and I imagine management agrees with you. But sometimes you have to trade from a position of strength and it would be foolish not to even consider the options. If Nurse and the 1st gets you what you need for a more balanced and immediately competitive team, you likely take it. The Oil needs to be competing in 2017-18 and 2018-19 is likely the target year for complete success of Chiarelli’s project.

  19. Ducey says:

    Lowetide:
    I cleaned up yesterday’s post, and deleted about 30 comments. I have not banned people who were involved, they are not on time out. Consider this a warning: For those who were the offending parties in last night’s post, I am also deleting the middle, time out, option.

    If you continue to disrupt the group, you will be banned from this blog permanently. No exceptions.

    Last Chance Texaco, indeed

  20. russ99 says:

    I think if anything, the Hall trade (and the Gretzky one decades before) taught us is that nobody is untouchable.

  21. SwedishPoster says:

    The comment section seems like it’s been on an all time high of crankyness lately. Ten years of losing I guess. Or everyone is getting old and get off my lawny.

    Anyway on topic. My sense is that someone in the scouting group likes his tall trees agile and with good puckskills. When watching Niemeläinen I see similarities with Paigin in that both are agile and with good lateral skating while possessing a nice set of hands. Let’s hope the same goes for Desharnais.

    I’m not as high on the Aapeli Räsänen pick as everyone else is. He’s an ok pick that late but to me he’s not the homerun pick I’ve seen suggested. I feel he’s a bit overrated due to a good U18 WJC performance. I think he could turn out a great defensive forward but worry about his offense.

  22. Revolved says:

    Although that list of Russian players has some curious names and greatly favours modern players, it is also interesting to see Slepyshev on there. Right below last year’s rookie of the year, no less.

    Let’s hope that all our lefty D prospects show well this year so that we can cash a couple of them for some actual NHL players.

  23. Jaxon says:

    If you adjust Paigin’s 20 year old year to only include his Sochi games he would have roughly 1.03 adj pts/ gp and move into 4th and very close to 3rd place. A defenseman who scores at a pace just behind Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, 2 of the best young players to come out of the KHL, is simply amazing. His NHLe with Sochi of 48 points ranks him in the Doughty, Pietrangelo, Ellis, Karlsson, Shattenkirk, Myers and Hamilton range for Draft+2, Draft+3, Draft+4 seasons. And he’s 6’6″!!! I want to go buy an Oilers Paigin jersey now. Haha.

  24. Jaxon says:

    I think if Paigin continues to devlop well, this season (maybe a few AHL playoff games at the end of the year?) and next season in the AHL, it does allow them to consider moving Reinhart at this year’s deadline (2017), Davidson at next year’s (2018) and Sekera’s in the summer of 2019 (when his full NMC expires).

  25. LMHF#1 says:

    Could they have done more to get Paigin over this season?

    Seeing that would have been a big positive for me.

  26. Genjutsu says:

    SwedishPoster:
    The comment section seems like it’s been on an all time high of crankyness lately.Ten years of losing I guess. Or everyone is getting old and get off my lawny.

    Anyway on topic. My sense is that someone in the scouting group likes his tall trees agile and with good puckskills. When watching Niemeläinen I see similarities with Paigin in that both are agile and with good lateral skating while possessing a nice set of hands. Let’s hope the same goes for Desharnais.

    I’m not as high on the Aapeli Räsänen pick as everyone else is. He’s an ok pick that late but to me he’s not the homerun pick I’ve seen suggested.I feel he’s a bit overrated due to a good U18 WJC performance.I think he could turn out a great defensive forward but worry about his offense.

    How would you compare his game to Lander? Seems to be similar player type from what I’ve been reading.

  27. Jethro Tull says:

    JOHNNY OPERATOR76:
    How can trading Seth Jones even be a discussion at this point ? Let’s give the kid a few more years.

    Found on a Preds blog. Probably.

  28. Jethro Tull says:

    There seems to me that there are two criteria for ‘depth’ at a position:

    1) The number of players you have that play that position.

    2) The quality of the players you have at that position.

    I don’t believe you can say you have true depth at a position unless you have BOTH of these things.

    Just because we have lots of LHD, it doesn’t mean we have depth there.

  29. Visually better says:

    Gregor just tweeted about Jimmy Vesey, I’m sure the oilers have interest in the player, but than again; nothing about the this team makes me feel confident in their ability to do the logical thing.. Have you heard anything LT?

  30. Ducey says:

    Visually better:
    Gregor just tweeted about Jimmy Vesey, I’m sure the oilers have interest in the player, but than again; nothing about the this team makes me feel confident in their ability to do the logical thing.. Have you heard anything LT?

    TOR, VAN, DET, NJ, BUF are considered front runners . I have never seen the Oilers mentioned as being in contention.

  31. Jethro Tull says:

    Visually better:
    Gregor just tweeted about Jimmy Vesey, I’m sure the oilers have interest in the player, but than again; nothing about the this team makes me feel confident in their ability to do the logical thing.. Have you heard anything LT?

    Player acquisition isn’t Pokémon Go. We don’t have to ‘catch ’em all’.

  32. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: TOR, VAN, DET, NJ, BUF are considered front runners . I have never seen the Oilers mentioned as being in contention.

    Me either, and I looked. Hard.

  33. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide: Me either, and I looked. Hard.

    Id love to see Buffalo’s GM Murray the moment he finds out the Oilers sign Vesey

  34. admiralmark says:

    russ99:
    I think if anything, the Hall trade (and the Gretzky one decades before) taught us is that nobody is untouchable.

    Plus every player can be traded for a fair and sizeable return. It just so happens that in Gretzky and Halls case the return wasnt good enough. Although im not exactly sure how in any world you win a Gretzky trade at the peak of his career.

  35. Centre of attention says:

    SwedishPoster:
    The comment section seems like it’s been on an all time high of crankyness lately.Ten years of losing I guess. Or everyone is getting old and get off my lawny.

    Anyway on topic. My sense is that someone in the scouting group likes his tall trees agile and with good puckskills. When watching Niemeläinen I see similarities with Paigin in that both are agile and with good lateral skating while possessing a nice set of hands. Let’s hope the same goes for Desharnais.

    I’m not as high on the Aapeli Räsänen pick as everyone else is. He’s an ok pick that late but to me he’s not the homerun pick I’ve seen suggested.I feel he’s a bit overrated due to a good U18 WJC performance.I think he could turn out a great defensive forward but worry about his offense.

    Rasanen to me is an ideal 3rd line center. I agree he will never be an offensive player, but two-way could be used to describe this player.

    Maybe I just add extra value to his range of skills. Button had him as a 2nd rounder right?

  36. frjohnk says:

    admiralmark: Although im not exactly sure how in any world you win a Gretzky trade at the peak of his career.

    Harold Snepts? Maybe a little +.

  37. doritogrande says:

    If you adjust Paigin’s 20 year old year to only include his Sochi games he would have roughly 1.03 adj pts/ gp and move into 4th and very close to 3rd place. A defenseman who scores at a pace just behind Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, 2 of the best young players to come out of the KHL, is simply amazing. His NHLe with Sochi of 48 points ranks him in the Doughty, Pietrangelo, Ellis, Karlsson, Shattenkirk, Myers and Hamilton range for Draft+2, Draft+3, Draft+4 seasons. And he’s 6’6″!!! I want to go buy an Oilers Paigin jersey now. Haha.

    You should go back a couple years and find a name steeped in Oilers prospect lore. Martin Gernat. Same trajectory in junior. Too many sideburns.

    Sure, Paigan had a nice half-year. Full credit to him for stepping up. Let’s see it again before we compare him to NHLers please.

    History (LT-era) tells us that of the young D-prospects, the majority fall off the pace eventually. The historical example (Wild, Chorney, Petry) will likely play out with the new crop (Paigin, Bear, Jones, Neim*insert finnish here*en). Where you place your bet is your money, but the odds look pretty even so far.

    I too like 6’6″, but can that tall tree adjust to a different league quick enough to be a factor?

  38. Centre of attention says:

    Patrick Roy just quit or got fired. One of the two.

    Now the Barrie signing makes a LOT more sense.

  39. Pouzar says:

    Kristen Shilton ‏@kristen_shilton 3m3 minutes ago
    Patrick Roy announces he’s leaving Colorado Avalanche organization, where he was head coach and VP of hockey ops

  40. Visually better says:

    Ducey: TOR, VAN, DET, NJ, BUF are considered front runners . I have never seen the Oilers mentioned as being in contention.

    Cool thank you, and no I haven’t heard us being in contention at all either.
    Jethro Tull,

    Hmmm, not sure I’m understanding what you’re saying here. Seeing as we probably have one of the weakest forward depth charts out there I would really hope that we would be atleast be trying to acquire a player that costs nothing but money as highly touted as Jimmy Vesey. “nah we got Drake cuggulia a couple months ago, we should be good for a few years”

  41. Pouzar says:

    Kristen Shilton ‏@kristen_shilton 4m4 minutes ago
    Roy says vision of HC/VP needs to be aligned with organization and he must have say in decisions team makes, but those needs not being met.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Honestly, he was terrible. Fin. Bad news for the Oilers of course, but good news for Denver.

  43. JDï™ says:

    Lowetide: Bad news for the Oilers of course

    Bob Nicholson proud to announce new Oilers associate coach…

  44. LMHF#1 says:

    Pouzar:
    Kristen Shilton ‏@kristen_shilton4m4 minutes ago
    Roy says vision of HC/VP needs to be aligned with organization and he must have say in decisions team makes, but those needs not being met.

    HAH! Douche.

    Seriously I’ve never liked the guy. Ever.

  45. Centre of attention says:

    I think he gets a job in the QMJHL where he can be head coach and GM.

    Or he goes to Vegas.

  46. JDï™ says:

    Saying that he doesn’t have enough of a “say in the decisions that impact the team’s performance,” Patrick Roy resigned as coach of the Colorado Avalanche on Thursday.

    http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17274440/patrick-roy-resigns-colorado-avalanche-coach

    Stamps foot, marches off in a huff. And now the Avs have little time before camp opens to find a coach.

  47. Centre of attention says:

    JDï™:
    Saying that he doesn’t have enough of a “say in the decisions that impact the team’s performance,” Patrick Roy resigned as coach of the Colorado Avalanche on Thursday.

    http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17274440/patrick-roy-resigns-colorado-avalanche-coach

    Stamps foot, marches off in a huff. And now the Avs have little time before camp opens to find a coach.

    Bob Hartley is on the phone already.

  48. G Money says:

    Got back to my workstation just now and I smell scorched hair! What gives?

    The Roy news is almost as annoying as the Hartley news. Was hoping the Jack Adams would buy those guys more years.

    The climb out of the West basement just added a couple of flights of stairs.

    Thank Gord for Randy Carlyle, but I doubt he can turn ANA into bottom feeders in a single year.

    Re: Vesey, I saw a tweet this morning suggesting it was now down to CHI or TOR, but not sure as to reliability of source:

    Early word I'm hearing is its coming down to Chicago or Toronto for Vesey. We'll see— Adrian Dater (@adater) 11 August 2016

  49. godot10 says:

    Now Michel Therrien has something to worry about. An “experienced” NHL coach who can “parlez vous”.

  50. JDï™ says:

    Centre of attention: Bob Hartley is on the phone already.

    That’s my point. Not that I’m sad for the Avs – they get another Jack Adams winner!

  51. Pouzar says:

    Random true story.

    I was sitting behind visitor bench at MTS Centre in Winterpeg this past season.
    Blues and Jets go to OT. Still tied after OT.
    I see Hitch writing on his little note pad “Shootout” with a double underline for emphasis.

    Anyway………carry on.

  52. Pouzar says:

    Centre of attention:
    I think he gets a job in the QMJHL where he can be head coach and GM.

    Or he goes to Vegas.

    Yup. Would be shocked if that wasn’t the case.

  53. Pouzar says:

    Chris Nichols ‏@NicholsOnHockey 51s52 seconds ago
    Friedman: #Habs player told me late in the season, ‘All the coaches here and the GM here, they think we’re soft.’

  54. Frank the dog says:

    admiralmark: Plus every player can be traded for a fair and sizeable return. It just so happens that in Gretzky and Halls case the return wasnt good enough. Although im not exactly sure how in any world you win a Gretzky trade at the peak of his career.

    Trade Gretzky for someone’s top 6 d and top 4 d?

  55. Klima's_Bucket says:

    *Bob Cole Voice*

    “Is this giant Pagan gonna be better than Alexei Semenov?…..For shore!!! “

  56. godot10 says:

    I wonder if Todd Nelson has an escape clause from his AHL deal with Detroit. He could do wonders in Colorado.

  57. Jethro Tull says:

    Apparently, Roy the HC had a falling out with the VPoHO, who then fired him.

    Then Roy the VPoHO had a falling out with the owners, who were backing up the HC, so he quit.

  58. Jethro Tull says:

    Diamond Joe: Close one there, with Tyson. Didn’t think we’d get him signed. Almost had to trade him for picks.

    Roy: I’m still not convinced about him. He’ll get 3rd line minutes until I say otherwise.

    Joe: It’s all about choices, Pat.

    Roy: What do you mean? What choices?

    Joe: Well, you can choose to ‘part ways’ amicably, and we’ll give you your 5min pout in the MSM, or you can be fired.

    Roy: Ah. Those choices. What were they again? I couldn’t ‘ear due to my cup rings being in my ears.

  59. Centre of attention says:

    Pouzar:
    Chris Nichols ‏@NicholsOnHockey51s52 seconds ago
    Friedman: #Habs player told me late in the season, ‘All the coaches here and the GM here, they think we’re soft.’

    Roy to Monteal? Lol.

  60. Ducey says:

    Jethro Tull:

    Roy:Ah.Those choices.What were they again?I couldn’t ‘ear due to my cup rings being in my ears.

    Haha. I was thinking about the same line.

    Ironic eh? That quote has really become emblematic of Roy. He won some Cups and now won’t listen to anyone.

  61. JDï™ says:

    Ducey: He won some Cups and now won’t listen to anyone.

    He only has, what – half the Cups of Lowe?

  62. Centre of attention says:

    Interesting that the Avalanche haven’t publicly acknowledged his departure yet. Makes you wonder.

  63. Centre of attention says:

    John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet · 2m2 minutes ago

    Bottom line on Roy’s resignation today,he and Sakic haven’t been on same page for a while.During Free Agency time they weren’t even speaking.

  64. blainer says:

    I think we need to slow cook Paigin. Another year in the K to show us he is for real. After that send him to the A and let him adjust to the smaller ice and quicker decisions.

    Suspect if he shows well in the A he would be called up within the first 30 or so games. An exciting prospect to be sure at this point.

    Boy did the OBC ever do a rotten job on NOT drafting ANY RT shot D.

    I am expecting another shoe to drop on D before the season opener.

  65. Centre of attention says:

    Just listened to Brandon Davidson on CHED. Says his knee is feeling great, hes already been on the ice and everything is going smoothly. He expects to play some time on the right side, says he has lots of experience playing there over his career and that it shouldn’t be a problem.

    He says hes been working exclusively on setting up for one timers and shooting threw traffic, he has been setting up obstacle courses and just skating around ripping slap shots threw the small gaps.

    I’m excited to see what this kid can bring offense wise, he did have some good offense in Junior so its not like its completely impossible for this kid to put up some numbers. He said he spent a lot of his AHL time working on his skating and defensive work and let his offense slip a bit, which explains why we didn’t catch on to his offensive potential during his time in OKC.

    Very, very excited to see Davidson this season.

  66. raventalon40 says:

    A bit off topic here, but does anybody else miss Corey Potter yet?

  67. Dee Dee says:

    admiralmark: Plus every player can be traded for a fair and sizeable return. It just so happens that in Gretzky and Halls case the return wasnt good enough. Although im not exactly sure how in any world you win a Gretzky trade at the peak of his career.

    Gretzky wasn’t traded, he was sold.

  68. Centre of attention says:

    Sounds like Roy told the media before he told Sakic. Speaks to his lack of character and childish temper. I bet he just woke up this morning on the wrong side of the bed and was like “F*CK IT I QUIT, I’M RIGHT THEY’RE IDIOTS”

  69. McSorley33 says:

    I have seen GMoney’ s revised comments on Mark Fayne.

    I have now placed his bust back up on the pedestal.

    Further, kudos to his take on Larsson.

    Hoping like heck Adam has instant chemistry with Klefbom.

    Said it before, but this fan base deserves to have a pleasant surprise from beyond the 1st round. I mean a stud. Maybe Bear, Jones or Paigin.

    Count me in for having Davidson play in the 2nd pairing on his wrong side. Keeping in mind, he will make mistakes. Massive, epic upgrade on Fayne.

    I think the Hall trade and the epic failure of Oiler management over the last decade has made us all a little grumpy.

    We should try to remember we all cheer for the same team though. This goes for me as much as anyone.

    LT writing has been razor sharp when focused on Oiler mismanagement.

  70. blainer says:

    Centre of attention:
    Just listened to Brandon Davidson on CHED. Says his knee is feeling great, hes already been on the ice and everything is going smoothly. He expects to play some time on the right side, says he has lots of experience playing there over his career and that it shouldn’t be a problem.

    He says hes been working exclusively on setting up for one timers and shooting threw traffic, he has been setting up obstacle courses and just skating around ripping slap shots threw the small gaps.

    I’m excited to see what this kid can bring offense wise, he did have some good offense in Junior so its not like its completely impossible for this kid to put up some numbers. He said he spent a lot of his AHL time working on his skating and defensive work and let his offense slip a bit, which explains why we didn’t catch on to his offensive potential during his time in OKC.

    Very, very excited to see Davidson this season.

    That is very encouraging. he sounds like he is really putting in the work over the summer. Really happy to hear he is healthy.

    I would really like to see Davey with Larsson though but it’s great to hear he is good to go on the RT side also. This does help take some pressure off Chia to at least not rush another forced trade.

    And what a great contract he is on.

  71. JDï™ says:

    Speculation around the name ‘Las Vegas Nighthawks’.

    Much better than Knights, or any derivation on that, but very similar to that other Hawks team.

  72. BONE207 says:

    Lowetide:
    I cleaned up yesterday’s post, and deleted about 30 comments. I have not banned people who were involved, they are not on time out. Consider this a warning: For those who were the offending parties in last night’s post, I am also deleting the middle, time out, option.

    If you continue to disrupt the group, you will be banned from this blog permanently. No exceptions.

    LT…I thought you had gotten more for giving. The boys have been cranking up the rhetoric since the Sekera post. It’s been fun reading though. Must be your choice of hotstove topics. I trust I’m not a “tequila” at the stomach party.

  73. Pouzar says:

    John Shannon‏@JSportsnet
    Bottom line on Roy’s resignation today,he and Sakic haven’t been on same page for a while.During Free Agency time they were’t even speaking.

  74. Centre of attention says:

    blainer: That is very encouraging. he sounds like he is really putting in the work over the summer. Really happy to hear he is healthy.

    I would really like to see Davey with Larsson though but it’s great to hear he is good to go on the RT side also. This does help take some pressure off Chia to at least not rush another forced trade.

    And what a great contract he is on.

    I would not be surprised at all if Davidson spends most of this season in the top 4, both left AND right side.

    Maybe shift Sekera over to the right side and play him with Klefbom, and have Davidson play 2LD with Larsson? Maybe moving Larsson to 2nd pairing comp may be the key to unlocking his offense.

    Just spit balling ideas, but I can tell you right now camp is going to be VERY interesting. Not like other years where you could pretty much put together the starting line up by July 2nd. There are some possible surprises, Davidson being only one of them.

  75. Centre of attention says:

    Pouzar:
    John Shannon‏@JSportsnet
    Bottom line on Roy’s resignation today,he and Sakic haven’t been on same page for a while.During Free Agency time they were’t even speaking.

    You double posting bastard! I had this half an hour ago! 😉 lol.

  76. Pouzar says:

    Centre of attention: I would not be surprised at all if Davidson spends most of this season in the top 4, both left AND right side.

    Maybe shift Sekera over to the right side and play him with Klefbom, and have Davidson play 2LD with Larsson? Maybe moving Larsson to 2nd pairing comp may be the key to unlocking his offense.

    Just spit balling ideas, but I can tell you right now camp is going to be VERY interesting. Not like other years where you could pretty much put together the starting line up by July 2nd. There are some possible surprises, Davidson being only one of them.

    Yes thx for the update Centre!

  77. Jethro Tull says:

    JDï™:
    Speculation around the name ‘Las Vegas Nighthawks’.

    Much better than Knights, or any derivation on that, but very similar to that other Hawks team.

    Las Vegas Shitehawks?

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shitehawk

    My favourite is definition #3.

  78. Pouzar says:

    Centre of attention: You double posting bastard! I had this half an hour ago! lol.

    One too many Steam Whistles here in Southern ON!
    Love it down here.

  79. Centre of attention says:

    Pouzar: One too many Steam Whistles here in Southern ON!
    Love it down here.

    “Love” and “Southern Ontario” do not belong in the same dictionary, never mind the same sentence.

    I will take into account your current level of intoxication, and give you a pass…this time. 😉

  80. Pouzar says:

    Centre of attention: “Love” and “Southern Ontario” do not belong in the same dictionary, never mind the same sentence.

    I will take into account your current level of intoxication, and give you a pass…this time.

    True Story.

    Two days ago, as I was sweating my ass off in the hour and a half long lineup for Ripley’s Aquarium Tickets, I was staring at the Steam Whistle brewery directly across the road (as my family were waiting in an air conditioned elevator at CN Tower) contemplating why Gord hates me.

    Making up for that sh!t today! *GULP*

  81. rickithebear says:

    These are performance stats I meant o post yesterday afternoon:
    Final got time Now!

    1. Dmen that are off D G/A/P and yet still cover on Defensive Side.
    top 60 EVG/60; Top 60 EVA/60; Top 60 EVP/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 60 HSCA; Top 70 SA/60 or combination leads to top 60 expected GA.
    These are the D that Can drive offence and Still cover Defensively.
    Some cause they are slotted to comp ability.
    Others are the true Norris Even Dmen.

    -Vlasic 1st comp
    – Muzzin 1st comp
    -Klefbom 1st comp
    – Weber 1st comp His SA this year greatly dragged by Josi
    – Ekblad Upr 2nd comp
    – Carlson Bot 2nd
    -Vatanen: 3rd comp;
    _ Parayko 3rd comp
    -Orlov 4th comp

    2. Dmen that are off D G/P and yet still cover on Defensive Side.
    top 60 G/60; Top 60 EVP/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 60 HSCA; Top 70 SA/60 or combination leads to top 60 expected GA.
    – Stralmann Upper 2nd comp
    -K. Miller 2nd comp

    3. Dmen that are off D A/P and yet still cover on Defensive Side.
    Top 60 EVA/60; Top 60 EVP/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 60 HSCA; Top 70 SA/60 or combination leads to top 60 expected GA.

    – Braun 1st comp
    -Orpik 2nd comp
    – Ekholm 2nd comp
    – Petrovic 2nd comp
    – Sustr Bot 2nd comp

    4. Dmen that pass the puck and Are strong Def,
    Top 60 A/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 60 HSCA; Top 70 SA/60 -> GA combination lads to top 60 expected GA.
    Larsson 1st comp
    Suter 1st comp
    liles upr 2nd comp
    Franson 4th comp

    5. Dmen that are off D G/A/P and are avg on def side
    top 60 EVG/60; Top 60 EVA/60; Top 60 EVP/60 -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 90 HSCA; Top 120 SA/60 -> Any combination that leads to above avg Exp GA
    best to roll them against sheltered comp so they can hammer lower comp offensively.
    Which makes them look great but are not Norris caliber defensively.

    – Josi 1st comp
    – Klien 1st comp
    -Karlsson 1st comp
    -Letang Bot 1st comp
    – Maata Bot 1st comp
    -Boychuk Upr 2nd
    – Leddy Upr 2nd
    -Burns upper 2nd comp
    -Keith 2nd comp
    -Daley Bot 2nd comp
    – Gostisbehere 3rd comp

    6. Dmen that are off D G/P and are avg on Defensive Side.
    top 60 G/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 90 HSCA; Top 120 SA/60 -> any combination that leads to above avg exp GA
    -OEL 2nd comp
    – Goulebef upr 3rd comp

    7. Dmen that are off D A/P and are avg on Defensive Side
    top 60 A/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 90 HSCA; Top 120 SA/60 -> any combination that leads to above avg exp GA
    Hamonic 1st comp
    Pietrangelo Bot 1st comp
    Demers 3rd comp

    —————————————————– Below this line Def kills the team

    8. Dmen That are off D G/A/P and are bad on Def side
    top 60 G/60; Top 60 A/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    bottom 90 HSCA; Bottom 100 SA/60 -> leads to bottom Exp GA
    these guys Defence kills playoff chances!
    Go ahead and egt offence but only if you do not Fuck the team.
    I consider these guys the most selfish Dmen in the game.
    Choosing a cap payday over good defence
    ie.winning!

    – Subban 1st comp
    – Giordano 1st comp
    – Faulk 1st comp
    – Klingberg 1st comp
    – Hamilton 2nd comp
    – Krug Bot 2nd comp
    – Barrie Bot 2nd comp
    -Redmond 4th comp

    9. Dmen that are off D G/P and are avg on Defensive Side.
    top 60 G/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 90 HSCA; Top 120 SA/60 -> any combination that leads to below avg exp GA
    Byfuglien
    Mters
    Striet
    Mcdonagh
    Ceci
    E. Johnson

    10. Dmen that are off D A/P and are avg on Defensive Side
    top 60 A/60; Top 60 A1/60; -> GF
    ———————-
    Top 90 HSCA; Top 120 SA/60 -> any combination that leads to below avg exp GA

    Goligoski
    Wideman
    Murphy
    Hutton
    Hickey

  82. JDï™ says:

    Jethro Tull: My favourite is definition #3.

    You know, that could catch on around here – especially when Larsson or Hall are mentioned.

  83. Pouzar says:

    JDï™,

    No “Steam Whistle Blower” pun yet? Yer slowin down in yer old age!

    I still hate music though.

  84. Jethro Tull says:

    JDï™: You know, that could catch on around here – especially when Larsson or Hall are mentioned.

    Certainly beats Chicken-hawk.

  85. JDï™ says:

    Pouzar: No “Steam Whistle Blower”

    Nah – low hanging fruit.

    Enjoy the humidity!

    The last time I was in Trawna was during the worst smog alert they’ve had – buildings across the street appeared as grey outlines, and it was about 35 degrees every day.

    The time before that, during a garbage strike. Funny, I’ve never gone back.

  86. G Money says:

    McSorley33: Further, kudos to his take on Larsson.

    My main man Darcy McLeod of the Clan McLeod has been beaking me on Twitter DM, insisting that my interpretation of Larsson’s results is way too harsh.

    He’s writing an article to convince me I’m wrong. Well, he’s not writing an article to convince me I’m wrong, I’m pretty sure he’s writing it for other more actual reasons, but he’s sure it will convince me.

    So perhaps I will join the more optimistic side soon. I hear they have cookies!

  87. Centre of attention says:

    G Money: My main man Darcy McLeod of the Clan McLeod has been beaking me on Twitter DM, insisting that my interpretation of Larsson’s results is way too harsh.

    He’s writing an article to convince me I’m wrong.Well, he’s not writing an article to convince me I’m wrong, I’m pretty sure he’s writing it for other more actual reasons, but he’s sure it will convince me.

    So perhaps I will join the more optimistic side soon.I hear they have cookies!

    Wheat and SwedishPoster both noticed a weird thing (I have noticed it too now, going back) where after Larsson/Greene get the puck out of their zone, they head immediately off the ice for a change to keep fresh for the next inevitable D-zone draw.

    This explains why they seem to not reap the rewards of their excellent D-zone play. Something to consider.

  88. JDï™ says:

    G Money: I hear they have cookies!

    And Koolaid!

    I think most of us Dunning-Kruger sufferers were lobbying for more of a middle ground until some games are played. 😉

  89. G Money says:

    Centre of attention,

    Yeah, there’s an interesting similarity in the observations of the guys who’ve been scouting Larsson.

    You, Wheat, and Swedish have all noted that his zone exit / passing ability is much better than his reputation and his results would suggest is the case.

    That they (he and Greene) handle the D zone then regularly exit the ice and allow others to benefit from their hard work would provide some valuable and encouraging context to otherwise (to me) somewhat depressing results.

    Looking forward to Wheat finishing his work and putting some definitive counts around that.

  90. Jethro Tull says:

    JDï™: And Koolaid!

    I think most of us Dunning-Kruger sufferers were lobbying for more of a middle ground until some games are played.

    Interesting factoid: There is a kind of bizarro Dunning-Kruger effect wherein highly capable and intelligent people assume that tasks which are relatively simple for them, are also simple for everybody else. True story.

    Bizarro!

  91. G Money says:

    JDï™,

    Oooh! I’ve heard of this Koolaid stuff. I just assumed Kingsway had a monopoly on it!

    Jethro Tull,

    I’ve heard of this Bizarro. Great scientist!

  92. SwedishPoster says:

    G Money:
    JDï™,

    Oooh!I’ve heard of this Koolaid stuff.I just assumed Kingsway had a monopoly on it!

    I like to mix my Koolaid with really bad gin to get that warm and at the same time queasy feeling in my stomach to remind myself it ain’t all good.

  93. OF17 says:

    I’m worried about Davidson’s future here. I fear Chiarelli will choose Nurse over him and in the name of L-R balance ship Davidson off for some Sproul equivalent. It would be a dark timeline, but it has the feel of one of those awful blinders-on decisions that our team is so prone to make.

    For the record, I take Davidson over Nurse 10/10 times. I’m not going to take his presence on the team for granted this year, because who knows how long it lasts.

  94. JDï™ says:

    Jethro Tull: Bizarro!

    I keyed that NSX at the Willow Park Mall for nothing?

    Uh oh…

  95. Frank the dog says:

    Centre of attention:
    Sounds like Roy told the media before he told Sakic. Speaks to his lack of character and childish temper. I bet he just woke up this morning on the wrong side of the bed and was like “F*CK IT I QUIT, I’M RIGHT THEY’RE IDIOTS”

    Must have been looking in the mirror while shaving.

  96. G Money says:

    For CoA, the WoodMoneys on Jason Demers: http://i.imgur.com/oNLsNy7.png

    I read these results as: top rank second pair guy, capable of filling in on the top pair when needed. Played very distinctly second pairing competition. Of course, he’s in the shutdown quadrant since he doesn’t score much. Quite a bit better than what I expected to see.

    On Larsson, Sunil @ Copper n Blue looked at the WoodMoneys, and it appears he too is more optimistic than I am: http://www.coppernblue.com/2016/8/11/12420522/adam-larsson-article-new-jersey-devils-woodmoney-quality-of-competition-oilers

    Dammit!

  97. Pouzar says:

    OF17:
    I’m worried about Davidson’s future here. I fear Chiarelli will choose Nurse over him and in the name of L-R balance ship Davidson off for some Sproul equivalent. It would be a dark timeline, but it has the feel of one of those awful blinders-on decisions that our team is so prone to make.

    For the record, I take Davidson over Nurse 10/10 times. I’m not going to take his presence on the team for granted this year, because who knows how long it lasts.

    Why is the decision between these two?

    I love both btw. Seen em both good. Amounts to SFA I know.

  98. G Money says:

    JDï™: I keyed that NSX at the Willow Park Mall for nothing?

    Uh oh…

    Oooooh, you in trouble now. I’m a ‘westie’. You must have hit a ‘southie’. Them southies crazy.

  99. OF17 says:

    Pouzar: Why is the decision between these two?

    I love both btw. Seen em both good. Amounts to SFA I know.

    In my mind it wouldn’t be, but I fear it will be. Agree with you too. I’ve seen them both good.

  100. Woodguy says:

    G Money: My main man Darcy McLeod of the Clan McLeod has been beaking me on Twitter DM, insisting that my interpretation of Larsson’s results is way too harsh.

    He’s writing an article to convince me I’m wrong.Well, he’s not writing an article to convince me I’m wrong, I’m pretty sure he’s writing it for other more actual reasons, but he’s sure it will convince me.

    So perhaps I will join the more optimistic side soon.I hear they have cookies!

    No, I’m writing it entirely out of spite.

    🙂

  101. blainer says:

    G Money:
    For CoA, the WoodMoneys on Jason Demers: http://i.imgur.com/oNLsNy7.png

    I read these results as: top rank second pair guy, capable of filling in on the top pair when needed.Played very distinctly second pairing competition. Of course, he’s in the shutdown quadrant since he doesn’t score much.Quite a bit better than what I expected to see.

    On Larsson, Sunil @ Copper n Blue looked at the WoodMoneys, and it appears he too is more optimistic than I am: http://www.coppernblue.com/2016/8/11/12420522/adam-larsson-article-new-jersey-devils-woodmoney-quality-of-competition-oilers

    Dammit!

    I am kinda in between. Not sure what we have after reviewing the numbers. I think you are correct and CoA may be onto the same idea.

    Play Larsson Klef/ Davey on the second pair where you can. Having one of those three sharing the first pairing with Sek for some time should work out OK.

    Klef
    Larsson
    Davey
    Sek

    Should be a decent top four. Injuries are the big concern. We really don’t want Nurse and griff playing up to high for long.

    I would like to see a Lovejoy type of pickup just before the season opener for the 5/6/7 D with the ability to move up where needed.

  102. JDï™ says:

    G Money: Them southies crazy.

    I’m a southie! Thems fightin words!

  103. SwedishPoster says:

    Genjutsu: How would you compare his game to Lander? Seems to be similar player type from what I’ve been reading.

    Yeah similar players as far as their role on the team goes though Lander was pretty far ahead developementwise in their draft year and had shown more offense in his junior career. What Räsänen has going for him is more explosiveness, a better shot and his style might be a better fit in NA, he’s more gung ho than Lander, crashes the net more naturally, doesn’t look for the pass all the time and so on. He’s also taking a slower path to the NHL and that might be beneficial. Räsänen is much more of a longshot pick than Lander was at the same age.

    Centre of attention: Rasanen to me is an ideal 3rd line center. I agree he will never be an offensive player, but two-way could be used to describe this player.

    Maybe I just add extra value to his range of skills. Button had him as a 2nd rounder right?

    He needs to develop his offense to be considered a twoway player, he has some tools but if he’s to make it as a 3C he has to start developing his playmaking imo. I think USHL and then NCAA is a good route and will give him time to work on this. Right now I see a #4 C, PKer, faceoff specialist who collects a few garbage goals now and then but frustrates fans with his lack of production.

  104. godot10 says:

    Sekera, like Petry, is a near perfect #3D. Since one has Klefbom, and if Klefbom is healthy, Sekera should play #3D. Klefbom is a first pairing D when healthy.

    Plus, Klefbom and Larsson are 20-something minutes guys. Sekera is much better when kept to under 20 minutes.

    Fayne has to play with a stable veteran to be effective.

    Since Nurse is going to roam some, he needs a mobile partner (which Fayne ain’t).

    So the most probable scenario to start the season is (if no further acquisitions) IMHO

    Klefbom Larsson
    Sekera Fayne
    Nurse Davidson
    Reinhart

    The next most probable scenario

    Klefbom Larsson
    Sekera Davidson
    Reinhart Nurse
    Fayne

    i.e. I could see Reinhart and Nurse pushing Fayne down to #7.

  105. LadiesloveSmid says:

    SwedishPoster: Right now I see a #4 C, PKer, faceoff specialist who collects a few garbage goals now and then but frustrates fans with his lack of production.

    they got another Lander!! with more goals it seems though

  106. Centre of attention says:

    SwedishPoster: Yeah similar players as far as their role on the team goes though Lander was pretty far ahead developementwise in their draft year and had shown more offense in his junior career. What Räsänen has going for him is more explosiveness, a better shot and his style might be a better fit in NA, he’s more gung ho than Lander,crashes the net more naturally, doesn’t look for the pass all the time and so on. He’s also taking a slower path to the NHL and that might be beneficial. Räsänen is much more of a longshot pick than Lander was at the same age.

    He needs to develop his offense to be considered a twoway player, he has some tools but if he’s to make it as a 3C he has to start developing his playmaking imo. I think USHL and then NCAA is a good route and will give him time to work on this. Right now I see a #4 C, PKer, faceoff specialist who collects a few garbage goals now and then but frustrates fans with his lack of production.

    I mean, his boxcars suggest more than you’re saying but I will respect your opinion because you are rarely wrong on these things. Agreed, his USHL season will give us a good read on where he is at.

    G Money:
    For CoA, the WoodMoneys on Jason Demers: http://i.imgur.com/oNLsNy7.png

    I read these results as: top rank second pair guy, capable of filling in on the top pair when needed.Played very distinctly second pairing competition. Of course, he’s in the shutdown quadrant since he doesn’t score much.Quite a bit better than what I expected to see.

    On Larsson, Sunil @ Copper n Blue looked at the WoodMoneys, and it appears he too is more optimistic than I am: http://www.coppernblue.com/2016/8/11/12420522/adam-larsson-article-new-jersey-devils-woodmoney-quality-of-competition-oilers

    Dammit!

    Can you show me the WoodMoneys™ for after he returned from that nasty shoulder injury? As I discussed with you in Twitter DM, I feel like he was not the same player after returning. At that age, a serious shoulder injury is more of a problem then when you are a teenager. Especially if there is meniscus damage like we discussed.

    He started the playoffs playing 13 minutes, I guarantee they knew he was hurt. I recomend we follow his progress in Florida, if he bounces back and continues to produce good numbers against top competition, well you can throw the Demers option in the mix as an alternative to the Hall trade. Even then, the cap situation gets foggy later unless the Oilers found a way to shed significant salary, which is expensive to do. It costs you picks and prospects to shed Salary, none of which the Oilers have lots of.

    Love your guys WoodMoney work buy the way, it’s really opened my eyes on a variety of players. It’s also made me eat my words more than once. 🙂

  107. Centre of attention says:

    G Money,

    I sent you two long-ass twitter DM’s, I understand if you don’t have the time to read them right away but please do when you have the chance. It might help you sleep better at night RE: Chiarelli.

  108. G Money says:

    Centre of attention,

    Will do – juggling feeding my little ones with watching the Esquimaux game!

  109. Centre of attention says:

    G Money:
    Centre of attention,

    Will do – juggling feeding my little ones with watching the Esquimaux game!

    All good, i figured you were busy 🙂 Life is definitely more important than the disillusioned drivel I’m trying to push here 😉

  110. Oilspill says:

    Centre of attention: Wheat and SwedishPoster both noticed a weird thing (I have noticed it too now, going back) where after Larsson/Greene get the puck out of their zone, they head immediately off the ice for a change to keep fresh for the next inevitable D-zone draw.

    This explains why they seem to not reap the rewards of their excellent D-zone play. Something to consider.

    This is why shots dont always tell the whole story. For many D the stat that is much better is controlled exits especially for those aren’t end to end guys and change like most coaches want if it has been more than 30 sec shift.. win the battle get control move the puck(pass) then change.

  111. Centre of attention says:

    Oilspill: This is why shots dont always tell the whole story. For many D the stat that is much better is controlled exits especially for those aren’t end to end guys and change like most coaches want if it has been more than 30 sec shift.. win the battle get control move the puck(pass) then change.

    Me as well as G Money will be the first to admit that just shots alone do not tell the whole story because you need to add context to that shot, so yes you’re right in that aspect. I admit I am not an expert in the zone exit/entry metrics that Wheat is measuring, so I won’t comment on that part of your statement. I can say that by what I’ve seen, the guy can win board battles and can make a good first pass. Those two skills are vital in getting out of your zone. Larsson also has a bit of a mean streak that doesn’t get talked about much.

    I should also clarify, I haven’t measured the ratio of shifts where they do that weird quick change to where they follow up the play, and they do in fact follow up the play at least some of the time. (I can show you video of Larsson making some sweet plays following up a rush)

    I think the Greene-Larsson pair just are not “green lighted” as often as in other systems, like for example in Calgary how often are the D carrying the puck and head manning the play? Pretty damn often. They also rake in the points at a above league-average rate.

    Here in Edmonton with Todd’s system, Larsson won’t have to be forced to headman plays and carry the puck lots, he just has to do what he does best. Bust the cycle using his good smarts & size & stick reach, then make a good first pass to the center who’s circling back low (in some cases its 97) and wow look at that your on your way out of the zone. Oscar or Sekera are good, mobile options to support him as well and provide another skate-out or pass-out option.

    I’m babbling now, we should probably get back to the 5:00 PM thread haha.

  112. Jaxon says:

    doritogrande:
    If you adjust Paigin’s 20 year old year to only include his Sochi games he would have roughly 1.03 adj pts/ gp and move into 4th and very close to 3rd place. A defenseman who scores at a pace just behind Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, 2 of the best young players to come out of the KHL, is simply amazing. His NHLe with Sochi of 48 points ranks him in the Doughty, Pietrangelo, Ellis, Karlsson, Shattenkirk, Myers and Hamilton range for Draft+2, Draft+3, Draft+4 seasons. And he’s 6’6″!!! I want to go buy an Oilers Paigin jersey now. Haha.

    You should go back a couple years and find a name steeped in Oilers prospect lore. Martin Gernat. Same trajectory in junior. Too many sideburns.

    Sure, Paigan had a nice half-year. Full credit to him for stepping up. Let’s see it again before we compare him to NHLers please.

    History (LT-era) tells us that of the young D-prospects, the majority fall off the pace eventually. The historical example (Wild, Chorney, Petry) will likely play out with the new crop (Paigin, Bear, Jones, Neim*insert finnish here*en). Where you place your bet is your money, but the odds look pretty even so far.

    I too like 6’6″, but can that tall tree adjust to a different league quick enough to be a factor?

    Gernat and Paigin’s numbers are so far away from each other that there is nothing to compare. Gernat’s best NHLe was in his draft+1 season when he got an NHLe of 20 pts playing in the WHL, which a number of prospects achieve every year. Paigin just achieved an NHLe of 48 pts playing in the 2nd most difficult league in the world. I haven’t found a single player that has achieved an NHLe of 48 pts outside the NHL in his Draft+0, Draft+1, Draft+2, Draft+3 or Draft+4 seasons. Ryan Ellis came the closest with an NHLe of 46 pts in his Draft+2 season, his 4th OHL season. If you count NHLers then only Doughty, Karlsson and Myers have achieved an NHLe of 48 pts in their Draft+2 or Draft+3 seasons.

    NHLEs by Draft Age
    Draft+0, +1 , +2 , +3 , +4 , +5 , +6 , +7
    Petry’s NHLEs:
    7 – 18 – 15 – 10 – 20 – 23 – 28 – 21
    Gernat’s NHLEs:
    15 – 20 – 13 – 14 – 6 – 4
    Chorney’s NHLEs:
    4 – 15 – 29 – 20 – 12 – 6 – 13 – 18

    Actually Chorney’s Draft+2 NHLe was decent but it still wasn’t anywhere near 48. Last season Chorney played 55 games for the best team in the NHL.

    An NHLE of 48 in the KHL is a big damn deal. And the players you compared to him are not even in the same ballpark.

  113. Ryan says:

    OF17:
    I’m worried about Davidson’s future here. I fear Chiarelli will choose Nurse over him and in the name of L-R balance ship Davidson off for some Sproul equivalent. It would be a dark timeline, but it has the feel of one of those awful blinders-on decisions that our team is so prone to make.

    For the record, I take Davidson over Nurse 10/10 times. I’m not going to take his presence on the team for granted this year, because who knows how long it lasts.

    I love Davidson. In fact, I was in the minority here who were afraid of losing him on waivers last season.

    I also have concerns over both Nurses’ offensive upside and ability to transition the puck.

    However, projecting defensemen is tricky business.

    While I tend to vacillate rather than oscillate between fears that Nurse could be Gudbranson 2.0 and the precept that pedigree (and age) matters, I will not repudiate that I have been wrong before.

    I was among the majority at this blog who for a period of time valued Marincin over Klefbomb.

    ‘We’ laugh collectively at Mact’s ability and foolishness in evaluating defensemen. We laud ourselves for being smarter than Oilers GMs, but we are loathe to admit when ‘we’ are wrong.

    ‘We’ being the consensus at this blog.

    I think there’s value in this.

  114. Ak Bars Kazan in 2016-17 | CONWAY'S RUSSIAN HOCKEY BLOG says:

    […] Black Sea outfit, and hopefully this time will play him to his strengths, and a lot (Lowetide has a nice write-up today on Paigin, who is a 2015 Oilers draft pick).  Sekáč was a huge part of Lev Prague’s […]

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