RE 16-17 OSCAR KLEFBOM: YOUNG LIONS

Oscar Klefbom, chosen No. 19 overall in 2011, spent the early portion of his career being known as ‘not Jonas Brodin’. In the last year or two, the conversation has turned around completely—it now appears the Oilers have themselves a major piece of a successful future. Home grown, drafted by Edmonton management outside the lottery. How good is he? Folks, he might just be the rarest of all things, a complete blue drafted by the Oilers and retaining a wide range of skills upon arrival in the NHL. Hey Oscar? Stay healthy.(Young Lions)

OSCAR KLEFBOM 15-16

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.09 (1st among regular D)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 3.27 (2nd among regular D)
  • Corsi for 5×5 %: 50.5
  • Qual Comp: 2nd toughest among D (first pairing)
  • Qual Team: 4th best available among D (second pairing)
  • Corsi for 5×5 % REL: 6.8
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 48 shots/8.3%
  • Boxcars: 30gp, 4-8-12 .400
  • Information via Stats.HockeyAnalysis.com, behindthenet.ca and hockey-reference.

VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER

OILERS D VOLLMAN BLUE 25 OR MORE

RE 16-17: 55GP, 5-16-21 .381

  1. How good can he be? Top pair. You would want to see him play for 250 games, and you would like them to come in three seasons (including playoffs), but this is a very promising player—who is already established as an NHL player.
  2. What were his injuries last season? He had a finger injury on December 12, day-to-day. After that, it was various descriptions (lace bite, staph infection) but it was real and it was serious.
  3. When was the last time you were this concerned about an Oilers player? Probably Fernando Pisani. We still don’t really know if he can come into camp and perform at par. The young man has missed a lot of time and there has to be at least some concern about the lace bit problem coming back again.
  4. This RE number seems low. The GP is the big item, this is actually a 31-point season if he played the entire way. Klefbom needs to prove he can stay healthy. Major, major story for 2016-17.
  5. He should be a 40-point projection. I would refer you to the dictionary meaning of reasonable. If Oscar gets a lot of power-play time and plays 82 games, he could post a big number. I am estimating that big number would be 31, and that he will not play 82 games.
  6. How big is this injury story? The Oilers badly need this guy. He is a big piece.
  7. They didn’t compromise the foot? Klefbom: “I think it’ll be 100 per cent. I just want to put this behind me.” Source
  8. How important is Klefbom to the build? Massive. You could see it after he went down in December. The team was addled the rest of the way. If he can’t join this group for the next decade, it will fall upon the next group to replace—not reinforce—the defense. A major distinction and a possible derailment of this rebuild. It is a big damned deal.
  9. Who did he play well with? His three partners were Justin Schultz (54 percent 5×5 Corsi for percentage), Mark Fayne (50.1) and Brandon Davidson (49.0). Source
  10. What player-type is he? There is substantial evidence now that he is a complete defenseman. Mobile, wide range of skills, 6.03, 210, sturdy, rugged—and now that he is away from the Swedish assist police, we know he has an offensive game.
  11. What could he be? I wish you could have seen the old timey Habs (I hated them) back in the day. You would see them early in the year and some new guy—like Bob Murdoch or John van Boxmeer—would catch your eye. You would run to the latest Hockey News to see his AHL numbers, and wonder if he was going to be a star. Chances were, the guy would not be back that season. Crazy. Oscar is so good he could have been a Habs farmhand in 1972. Almost all of them had a wide range of skills. It was a factory.
  12. So, Oscar could be Murdoch or van Boxmeer? Better. I believe he could be better, by some margin.
  13. What is the best thing you can say about him? The Oilers are miles better with Klefbom on the roster and if he is healthy next season we should see a more balanced defensive group.
  14. How good could he be? I do not recall the last Oilers defensive prospect with this kind of range. He covers the entire spectrum, and his mobility is terrific. He can move left and right quickly, skates well in any direction, is a rugged player who can battle and has no fear.
  15. Do you want to talk about the quote? Your choice, it is here.
  16. Is there any way for this to be a non-story? The nature of these things is that they are forgotten until the next time. I will tell you this: If New Jersey or Edmonton has a season outside expectations, it will have a new life. If Hall performs very well or poorly in NJ, it will have a new life. It is now a part of public record.
  17. I wish it had never happened. Ever since the world began, Euro hockey players go home and talk to the local media. They are far from the team, feeling relaxed and they let their guard down.
  18. He backed off the original quote. Yeah. And he does not strike me as an outspoken person or a bad teammate. Matty came to his defense right away, he has seen the wars and would know if Oscar was a different sort. Mostly, hockey players are alot like other hockey players.
  19. Does that do anything for you? It doesn’t change the original quote. I don’t think it makes Oscar a bad person or a horrible teammate, but it will be with him for a long time.
  20. Why can’t you let this go? Has nothing to do with me. This is about Oscar Klefbom and a quote that saw the light of day. We can discuss damage control (he did a pretty good job of it) but it is out there now, nothing anyone can do. And it will come back.
  21. How much do you have Oscar playing? I have him at 22 minutes a night, same as Larsson. I think they will be a very effective tandem when together.
  22. How did you break it down? 18 minutes at evens, two and two. Larsson’s 22 are 19 minutes at evens, three on the penalty kill.
  23. How much do you have him on the power play? Oscar is my No. 2 LH option, behind Sekera. Maybe he emerges as No. 1, maybe Brandon Davidson passes Oscar. We are dealing with an unknown.
  24. Could he score 40 points eventually? I don’t know. His Swedish league totals did not imply this kind of offensive ability, and his shot is good enough to warrant PP time (as indicated).
  25. Why this song? Oh, youth. Get everything out of it you can, and then put the pedal to the metal for one more spin, baby. You won’t regret it when you are 50, and have more stories to embellish. This is Oscar’s time, and if he is healthy, perhaps these young lions will finally climb from the depths of the second division.

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130 Responses to "RE 16-17 OSCAR KLEFBOM: YOUNG LIONS"

  1. stephen sheps says:

    Thank you for taking my Cons suggestion (or rather Cons badgering/bludgeoning) for the RE. Perfect song for the player.

    The reality is that regardless of how we read into those interview quotes, in many ways Oscar is the most important player on the team this season, and certainly the most important D-man. If he stays healthy and develops chemistry with Larsson, look out…

    Also, that big blue bubble with Davidson’s name on it is mighty impressive. That kid could be special, too.

  2. kinger_OIL says:

    – Great post LT! I echo Stephen Sheps. Klef is one of the “swing players”, that has to work out, and be healthy in order for the team to succeed.

    – Your RE number makes sense: but really he’s either going to be healthy and play 70 games +, or he’s done as a bright-light prospect. In other words, he won’t play 55 games…

    – A 30 game season with injuries, and he is not part of the future.

  3. Truth says:

    Unfortunately, I think you’re too optimistic with his projected GP. I remember the Oilers and Ryan Whitney saying he will be 100% too. It only took Ryan a few games to back off of that position, quite a few more for the Oilers to do the same.

    With that said, I was a huge fan of Klefbom in his draft year. I hoped the Oilers would take him with their second 1st round pick and was elated when they did. The Oilers desperately need a couple more of him in their system. I sincerely hope Klefbom truly is 100% and he has a quality season playing over 70 games.

  4. frjohnk says:

    His offense has seemed to come out of nowhere. Nothing much in the SEL and even in his 1st AHL season, he played 48 games and only had 1 goal and 9 assists.

    But since he has come to the NHL, he has had 7 goals 28 assists in 107 games. That’s the 2nd best ppg total of all Dmen in the 2011 draft.

    It seems like with all his fantastic tools, he was able to bring it all together and is now a damn fine hockey player.

    He stays healthy and takes another step in development and we have a guy who is either a number 1 Dman or close to it, and who can play all situations.

  5. PaperKurtRussell says:

    Very astute blog. This is a player we need to be healthy.

    Too bad Jultz is no longer here (well not really too bad, but hear me out). I thought of a great RE song for him: She Ain’t Pretty by the Northern Pikes. I guess that could apply to any flashy new player that doesn’t actually deliver the goods. Seems like these types don’t fool Chia, so hopefully we are done with the flawed young players getting a massive push before they are ready. For those who like good Canadian rock, here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k

  6. dustrock says:

    I’d argue he’s probably the 3rd most important person on the team besides McDavid and Nuge, in terms of praying for no injuries.

    Regarding the quote, it’s all been said at this point, but to me the most interesting part of it was his perception of Hall – that he didn’t perform against the good teams.

    It was quickly demonstrated by a number of people that this simply wasn’t the case, but it didn’t ring true even when Klefbom said it.

    So why did he have that perception of Hall? Just a good reminder we know less than nothing about chemistry and locker rooms and what years of losing does to a team.

  7. hags9k says:

    I hope the new custom boot fits just right, this player is absolutely crucial this year.

    I also feel the quote may have been a little bit lost in translation, and likely never carried any real malice towards Hall. In fact I would say he was showing leadership by getting behind the trade and the new look team. We should hope more of the team has this attitude about the trade.

    I’d add Davidson and that gorgeous bubble as another budding complete D. He just looked like a light went on and he had this whole modern NHL defence thing figured out. I hope he and Oscar continue the upward trajectory. This team could be something special.

  8. meanashell11 says:

    I saw nothing wrong with his comment on Hall and I think it is completely blown out of proportion around here. I have completely forgot it already.

  9. Ducey says:

    dustrock: I’d argue he’s probably the 3rd most important person on the team besides McDavid and Nuge, in terms of praying for no injuries.

    Interesting question. I’d say:

    1. Talbot – if he goes down there is no hope
    2. Connor
    3. Larrson – he gets the nod as he is about all there is on the right side D
    4. Klefbom
    5. Nuge
    6. Lucic
    7. Eberle
    8. Sekera
    9. Davidson
    10. Pou or Leon – I cant decide

  10. dustrock says:

    Oh god how could I forget Talbot? He’d better be sleeping in an oxygen chamber.

  11. Chachi says:

    This blog is the only place that went super negative on Klefbom after that quote went public. There was also very little said here after he clarified what he meant to say. That was unfortunate as it was a very OBC “park a zamboni in front of his garage in Sweden” kind of move and this is a place that generally pokes fun at that type of reaction.

  12. JDï™ says:

    dustrock:
    Oh god how could I forget Talbot? He’d better be sleeping in an oxygen chamber.

    No, he’s trying to figure out the new equipment, and dealing with an expectant wife who is carrying twins. Due in November.

  13. Jaxon says:

    Klefbom had the 4th highest 5-on-5 primary pts per 60 in the NHL. Only behind Karlsson, Burns and Byfuglien. I think of he stays healthy this season he will break out in a very big way.

  14. JDï™ says:

    Klefbom needs a beard and a few missing teeth. He’s too purdy.

  15. Oilspill says:

    PaperKurtRussell:
    Very astute blog.This is a player we need to be healthy.

    Too bad Jultz is no longer here (well not really too bad, but hear me out).I thought of a great RE song for him:She Ain’t Pretty by the Northern Pikes.I guess that could apply to any flashy new player that doesn’t actually deliver the goods.Seems like these types don’t fool Chia, so hopefully we are done with the flawed young players getting a massive push before they are ready.For those who like good Canadian rock, here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k

    Jultz couldn’t do it here and was a functional backup only in Pittsburgh. When you play with top players/team you will have better so called numbers. That’s why most numbers aren’t indicitive of individual play. A D man could make 5 good passes that a weak forward could lose. He’s done his job yet is penalized by another’s poor execution.

  16. Pouzar says:

    Chachi:
    This blog is the only place that went super negative on Klefbom after that quote went public. There was also very little said here after he clarified what he meant to say. That was unfortunate as it was a very OBC “park a zamboni in front of his garage in Sweden” kind of move and this is a place that generally pokes fun at that type of reaction.

    Agreed. There are favs here, better not cross em.

  17. JDï™ says:

    Pouzar,

    We need the back story behind water(bottle)gate, now that both Hall and Eakins are no longer with the team.

  18. Pouzar says:

    JDï™:
    Pouzar,

    We need the back story behind water(bottle)gate, now that both Hall and Eakins are no longer with the team.

    2nd sprayer me thinks.

  19. Yeti says:

    Chachi:
    This blog is the only place that went super negative on Klefbom after that quote went public. There was also very little said here after he clarified what he meant to say. That was unfortunate as it was a very OBC “park a zamboni in front of his garage in Sweden” kind of move and this is a place that generally pokes fun at that type of reaction.

    Well, the comments on this blog went both from super negative to ‘entirely lost in translation’ and every shade in between. LT’s position seems to be that whatever Klefbom meant to say, it wasn’t very carefully phrased for the public record and it will likely hang in the background like a stale fart for quite a while. So, while I’m sure LT would like an all-expense paid trip to Sweden I’m not sure that what he said remotely counts as ‘parking the zamboni’. Seems rather accurate to me.

  20. franksterra says:

    JDï™,

    speaking of Eakins, the Tokyo RE for JJ got me thinking bout Fascist Architecture

  21. npanciroli says:

    Klefbom and Larsson will be the first legitimate first pairing we have had in a long time.

    I would run them 25 minutes a night to be honest.

  22. G Money says:

    Why WG is salivating over Klefbom:

    http://i.imgur.com/RA5uIAi.png

    True first pairing TOI breakdown; substantially positive DFFRel and CFRel vs the best; and the typical incline of CF% and DFF% as the competition weakens.

    He did this with Justin Schultz as his partner (which explains the sky high CA/60 numbers, though the DFA/60 numbers are actually quite good, just shy of the Mendoza line for the entire league vs all comp).

    Note: due to a short season, all these numbers are smaller sample than I’d like and have wide error bars. The TOI vs Gritensity in particular falls below the data volume needed for reliability.

  23. Lowetide says:

    franksterra:
    JDï™,

    speaking of Eakins, the Tokyo RE for JJ got me thinking bout Fascist Architecture

    I was just talking about this today with a buddy. The hardest thing to do in this RE was choosing a Gordon Lightfoot song, but Cockburn and others offered their own challenges. Mama Wants to Barrelhouse all night long, in the falling dark, when the sun goes super nova, Wondering where the lions are all had consideration.

  24. PaperKurtRussell says:

    Oilspill,

    Exactly. He was one of the players who we say “needs a second opinion”. Well, that opinion resulted in him becoming a #7 dman on a good team. Most of us could have told MacT that 2 years ago. But, the point remains that he looks pretty, but he ain’t that way. 🙂

  25. kinger_OIL says:

    npanciroli:
    Klefbom and Larsson will be the first legitimate first pairing we have had in a long time.

    I would run them 25 minutes a night to be honest.

    – That’s the problem that is the biggest for this team: we are relying on a duo that hasn’t played together, one who has weird history of not finishing seasons and another with no history at first line comp success, on a different team that is much more D focused and in the easier conference, and “hoping” they are going to morph into that top-pairing we need: what could go wrong?

    – Although the down-side isn’t like in previous years. They might not be ready for top-pairing, but at least they are both bona-fide NHL D (hi Ferrence, Nikitin, etc).

    – So I’m counting on them to have a tough year, but at least they are competent.

  26. Pouzar says:

    In Klefbom draft the verbal was that some scouts thought Klefbom would become the better defencemen over Larsson. I believe it was Bob McKenzie saying this if I remember correctly.

  27. franksterra says:

    Lowetide,

    Yah, and where do you place the most weight? The title, the lyrics, the overall feel? Different for each player and song I imagine.

    …hmmm, not unlike player analysis.

  28. AsiaOil says:

    Still waiting for someone to give me their Hall comp……..silence is deafening. Come on – I know people want to say Messier – go ahead and let the fun begin 🙂

  29. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar:
    In Klefbom draft the verbal was that some scouts thought Klefbom would become the better defencemen over Larsson. I believe it was Bob McKenzie saying this if I remember correctly.

    I see someone has asked a question regarding Klefbom vs. Brodin debate among Swedish defencemen. I have a clear preference for Klefbom. I frankly think he should be talked about in the same sentence as Larsson, Hamilton, and Murphy – the consensus top three defencemen on the board. I think Klefbom’s upside is very big – he could end up being a real home run out of this draft.

    -Kyle Woodlief, during USA Today chat draft week.

    http://lowetide.ca/2011/06/29/how-good-is-he-2/

  30. Lowetide says:

    franksterra:
    Lowetide,

    Yah, and where do you place the most weight? The title, the lyrics, the overall feel? Different for each player and song I imagine.

    …hmmm, not unlike player analysis.

    Well, some just fit perfectly. Summer Wages is the first thing I thought of for Larsson, because of the gambling aspect. My son suggests Lies (he called it something else, it may have a different title) when I told him about Larsson, so I used both.

    It is fun to do, I will say that.

  31. rickithebear says:

    Klefbom
    1st comp top 60 HSCA D
    his 80 game pace would have been
    11 EVG/13 EVA/ 24 EVP // 8 PPP/ 0PPG/ 8 PPA 24//8

    Davidson
    2nd comp top 30 HSCA D
    His 80 gm pace
    3EVG/ 10EVA/ 13EVP // 10PPP/ 10PPG/ 0PPA

    Larsson
    3 EVG 14 EVA 17 EVP 0PPP

    other 1st comp HSCAD
    Weber
    6EVG/ 18EVA/ 24EVP // 26PPP/ 14PPG/ 12PPA 24//26

    Doughty
    4/ 18/ 22 // 24/ 9/ 15 22//24

    Muzzin
    7/ 19/ 26 // 13/ 1/ 12 26//13

    Vlasic
    6/ 21/ 27 // 10/ 2/ 8 27//10

    Stralman
    8/ 14/ 22 // 12/ 1/ 11 22//12

    Lindholm
    5/ 7/ 12 // 15/ 4/ 11 12//15

    Hjarlmasson
    2/ 20/ 22 // 2/ 0/ 2 22//2

    Braun
    4/ 18/ 22 // 1/ 0/ 1 22//1

    Alzner
    3/ 17/ 20 // 1/ 0/ 1 20//1

  32. npanciroli says:

    kinger_OIL: – That’s the problem that is the biggest for this team: we are relying on a duo that hasn’t played together, one who has weird history of not finishing seasons and another with no history at first line comp success, on a different team that is much more D focused and in the easier conference, and “hoping” they are going to morph into that top-pairing we need: what could go wrong?

    – Although the down-side isn’t like in previous years.They might not be ready for top-pairing, but at least they are both bona-fide NHL D (hi Ferrence, Nikitin, etc).

    – So I’m counting on them to have a tough year, but at least they are competent.

    I’m comfortable with Sekera moving up to first pair if Klefbom goes down or struggles. RHD depth can’t handle any issues with Larsson that’s true.

    I think Larsson has a fair amount of history of top pairing success. Definitely will be interesting too see how that translates into our system for sure. Getting a Barrie or Trouba to share the load would be ideal but doesn’t sounds likely. LHD depth is there to share the load for sure.

  33. omega4 says:

    npanciroli: I would run them 25 minutes a night to be honest.

    I think they need to be careful to manage his TOI to ensure foot issue doesn’t return. Not the return from injury, let’s play him 28 min to see how he handles it.

  34. Lowetide says:

    AsiaOil:
    Still waiting for someone to give me their Hall comp……..silence is deafening. Come on – I know people want to say Messier – go ahead and let the fun begin 🙂

    Who is his recent comparable? Six seasons into his career, Hall is at .861 points-per-game. Previously, he was a pretty solid comp for John Tavares but has fallen off JTs pace in the last two seasons. Jamie Benn (.840) and Tyler Seguin (.830) are slightly off Hall’s pace after six years, Claude Giroux (.870) is the player just ahead of him now—there are some similarities despite the fact they play different positions.

    http://lowetide.ca/2016/04/12/re-15-16-taylor-hall-lost-together/

  35. Jaxon says:

    ***Optimist Post Trigger Warning***

    Klefbom had the 4th highest 5-on-5 primary pts per 60 in the NHL. Only behind Karlsson, Burns and Byfuglien, and the team was racked with injuries during his 30 games. He played 17 (57%) of those without McDavid, 13 (43%) without Eberle, 10 (33%) without Draisaitl, 9 (30%) without Davidson, 8 (27%) without Yakupov and 6 (20%) without Pouliot. I think he’ll also get a big PP boost p[laying with McDavid, Lucic and Eberle in front of him. Scoring at the 4th highest rate in the NHL while missing those players is no small feat. I think, if he and the Oilers stay relatively healthy this season, he will break out in a very big way.

  36. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: I see someone has asked a question regarding Klefbom vs. Brodin debate among Swedish defencemen. I have a clear preference for Klefbom. I frankly think he should be talked about in the same sentence as Larsson, Hamilton, and Murphy – the consensus top three defencemen on the board. I think Klefbom’s upside is very big – he could end up being a real home run out of this draft.

    -Kyle Woodlief, during USA Today chat draft week.

    http://lowetide.ca/2011/06/29/how-good-is-he-2/

    Thx…my recollection comes from Bobby Mc talking about Klefbom during live draft coverage. It really stuck with me b/c I knew EDM was in line to draft him.

  37. rickithebear says:

    Jaxon:
    Klefbom had the 4th highest 5-on-5 primary pts per 60 in the NHL. Only behind Karlsson, Burns and Byfuglien. I think of he stays healthy this season he will break out in a very big way.

    One of the 4 generates the top 5 pace
    while stiil defending.
    1st comp
    top 60 HSCA/SA defender
    top 15 PK dman

    I would be a little more worried of this break out!
    but this was not the breakout.

    Klefbom generated a top 7 Even production pace under nelson.
    while being paired with Fayne.
    they faced 1st comp and generated 2 elite HSCA games to every one game that was either avg or bad.

    I stated in the past.
    if we see that at the start of this season.
    that will be 3 seasons in a row

    14-15 Nelson
    15-16 Tmac
    16-17 ????????

  38. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: Thx…my recollection comes from Bobby Mc talking about Klefbom during live draft coverage. It really stuck with me b/c I knew EDM was in line to draft him.

    Ah. I could find only this, which is still a fun trip back

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTvbcbC_5A

  39. OilClog says:

    Klef is a #1 in the making, there would be no shock here if in 10 years he’s being compared to be more like that guy they had in Detroit for all those years.

    He’s better than Lars, Hamilton, Brodin.

    Hopefully they can figure out the skates, or its going to be Nuge + Nurse + Prospect + 1st round pick for that guy in Columbus we passed on for Yak

  40. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: Ah. I could find only this, which is still a fun trip back

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTvbcbC_5A

    “Dynamic”, “Plays Very Physical game”, “Likes to rush the puck up the ice”, “He makes a lot of mistakes”, “mistakes due to youthful enthusiasm” , “raw talent”, “ability to be a punishing defender and put the puck in the net”,”Raw”, “Headstrong”………………………….hmmmmmm.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.

  41. bendelson says:

    JDï™:
    Klefbom needs a beard and a few missing teeth. He’s too purdy.

    That would make him both dreamy and macho thereby satisfying both the analytics and onion belt crowds…

    Not an easy accomplishment.

  42. rickithebear says:

    The Bmac comment that stuck the most with me is:

    ” My scouts say Davidson would start on most playoff teams top 4″

    which leads to
    my most missed players.

    1. Talbot
    #2 HSCA Save% goalie lat 3 years.

    2. Larsson
    #1 1st comp Ev/PK GA D

    3. Klefbom
    Top 60 HSCA/ SA D
    generates Elite Even offence while mainting the defence.

    4. Davidson
    Top 30 HSCA/GA D
    top 5 PKGAD

    These 4 should provide the 35 EVTOI 1st/2nd/3rd comp GA defence.
    That allows top 7-9 fwds to outscore.
    no need for 1-6 fwds.

    5. Mcdavid
    he can individually drive a line that can out score awful Def play.

    6. Draisatl
    Generated Beter Ev production with the remaining Offensive forwards than he did with hall.

    7. RNH is a top PvP center when healthy

  43. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: “Dynamic”, “Plays Very Physical game”, “Likes to rush the puck up the ice”, “He makes a lot of mistakes”, “mistakes due to youthful enthusiasm” , “raw talent”, “ability to be a punishing defender and put the puck in the net”,”Raw”, “Headstrong”………………………….hmmmmmm.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.

    My favorite thing about him is his ability to skate. Forwards can’t beat him wide or inside, he wins races, he can scoot and recover and close gaps. Honestly, he is the best young D at closing a gap since Brewer.

  44. AsiaOil says:

    Lowetide: Who is his recent comparable? Six seasons into his career, Hall is at .861 points-per-game. Previously, he was a pretty solid comp for John Tavares but has fallen off JTs pace in the last two seasons. Jamie Benn (.840) and Tyler Seguin (.830) are slightly off Hall’s pace after six years, Claude Giroux (.870) is the player just ahead of him now—there are some similarities despite the fact they play different positions.

    http://lowetide.ca/2016/04/12/re-15-16-taylor-hall-lost-together/

    I’d say not applicable all around. Benn, Seguin, Tavares are all far superior goal scorers (consistent 30-40 goals) and all but Benn are centers who play a different (and more important) position. Giroux is a better match but again he’s a center and much better defensively. How about a few LW beside Benn who is undisputably more valuable than Hall?

  45. Lowetide says:

    AsiaOil: I’d say not applicable all around. Benn, Seguin, Tavares are all far superior goal scorers (consistent 30-40 goals) and all but Benn are centers who play a different (and more important) position. Giroux is a better match but again he’s a center and much better defensively. How about a few LW beside Benn who is undisputably more valuable than Hall?

    Those are my comparables, perhaps you can pass along your comparables.

  46. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: My favorite thing about him is his ability to skate. Forwards can’t beat him, he wins races, he can scoot and recover and close gaps. Honestly, he is the best young D at closing a gap since Brewer.

    In my viewings from the AHL I was ecstatic about his mobility. I couldn’t believe a guy that big could move that well. His positioning was a little erratic at times and he was caught chasing a lot in the D zone. Seems to have sorted that just fine though. 🙂

  47. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: In my viewings from the AHL I was ecstatic about his mobility. I couldn’t believe a guy that big could move that well. His positioning was a little erratic at times and he was caught chasing a lot in the D zone. Seems to have sorted that just fine though. 🙂

    I saw a game at Rexall maybe 2014-15, against Boston. He was frustrating their big forwards so badly the began targeting him physically. I remember because my daughter, who is protective of Klefbom for some reason, kept pointing it out. Klefbom is quick enough to make NHL players look foolish on specific exchanges, a very difficult thing to do.

  48. Chachi says:

    Yeti: Well, the comments on this blog went both from super negative to ‘entirely lost in translation’ and every shade in between. LT’s position seems to be that whatever Klefbom meant to say, it wasn’t very carefully phrased for the public record and it will likely hang in the background like a stale fart for quite a while. So, while I’m sure LT would like an all-expense paid trip to Sweden I’m not sure that what he said remotely counts as ‘parking the zamboni’. Seems rather accurate to me.

    From the Klefbom comment post: “It is very difficult to come away from this article with the same degree of respect for Oscar Klefbom. If what is quoted is what he meant, it is a stark look into a young dressing room that appears to have deep divisions even in the same age group. Stark.”

    That beeping sound you hear is heavy equipment backing over a young man based on one line in an interview in a foreign language.

  49. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    I find it kind of strange that Klefbom is considered an offensive defenseman and Larsson a defensive defenseman based on their history. Larsson has better offensive numbers in NHL so far.

    3 years in Swedish Elite league Klefbom was 17,18 and 19. Larsson was 16 (1 GP) ,17 and 18. How good would have Larsson’s numbers been if he played as a 19 yr old in SEL? How did they both do when they came over and played in the AHL? Here were their stats:

    Klefbom – (’10) 23 GP 1G 1A, (’11) 33 GP 2G 0A, (’12) 11GP 0G 3A, (’13 in AHL) 48 GP 1G 9A
    Larsson – (’08) 1 GP 0G 0A, (’09) 49 GP 4G 13A, (’10) 37 GP 1G 8A, (’11 in AHL) 33 GP 4G 13A

    I’m not sure if Klefbom is overrated or Larsson is underrated when it comes to offensive ability I suspect a bit of both. The NJ system clearly restricted Adam it wouldn’t be a shock to see his numbers spike a bit. As for Klef, he has a great shot but definitely needs to stay healthy. I agree he is one of the most critical players on this team hopefully he can last the season and show us what he’s made of.

  50. Lowetide says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes:
    I find it kind of strange that Klefbom is considered an offensive defenseman and Larsson a defensive defenseman based on their history.

    3 years in Swedish Elite league Klefbom was 17,18 and 19. Larsson was 16 (1 GP) ,17 and 18. How good would have Larsson’s numbers been if he played as a 19 yr old in SEL? How did they both do when they came over and played in the AHL? Here were their stats:

    Klefbom – (’10) 23 GP 1G 1A, (’11) 33 GP 2G 0A, (’12) 11GP 0G 3A, (’13 in AHL) 48 GP 1G 9A
    Larsson – (’08) 1 GP 0G 0A,(’09) 49 GP 4G 13A, (’10) 37 GP 1G 8A, (’11 in AHL) 33 GP 4G 13A

    I’m not sure if Klefbom is overrated or Larsson is underrated when it comes to offensive ability I suspect a bit of both. The NJ system clearly restricted Adam it wouldn’t be a shock to see his numbers spike a bit. As for Klef, he has a great shot but definitely needs to stay healthy. I agree he is one of the most critical players on this team hopefully he can last the season and show us what he’s made of.

    Are people calling Oscar an offensive weapon? I have not read that.

  51. Ducey says:

    Chachi: From the Klefbom comment post: “It is very difficult to come away from this article with the same degree of respect for Oscar Klefbom. If what is quoted is what he meant, it is a stark look into a young dressing room that appears to have deep divisions even in the same age group. Stark.”

    That beeping sound you hear is heavy equipment backing over a young man based on one line in an interview in a foreign language.

    …involving a “journalist” of which we know nothing.

  52. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Lowetide: Are people calling Oscar an offensive weapon? I have not read that.

    Not “weapon” but if Larsson is a defensive defenseman and he puts up better offensive numbers what does that make Klefbom?

  53. Soup Fascist says:

    Lowetide: I was just talking about this today with a buddy.The hardest thing to do in this RE was choosing a Gordon Lightfoot song, but Cockburn and others offered their own challenges. Mama Wants to Barrelhouse all night long, in the falling dark, when the sun goes super nova, Wondering where the lions are all had consideration.

    Cockburn’s songs – slightly altered – have promise:

    “Wondering what the “lines” are? – self explanatory

    “Glover in a Dangerous Time” – Discussing the complete and utter reliance on Cam Talbot having a good year

    “If I had a Rocket Launcher” – Ebs working on his one timer

    “Coldest Night of the Year” – discussing the outdoor game in Winnipeg (I know it’s October but it IS Winnipeg)

  54. Lowetide says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes: Not weapon but if Larsson is a defensive defenseman and he puts up better numbers what does that make Klefbom?

    I think Klefbom is a two-way defender and Larsson is a shutdown defender. Now, your point in regard to Larsson may well be true—the New Jersey system could have cut off his offense—but it isn’t reasonable (imo) to project Larsson as having the offense we might believe he could deliver. We will know more in a year.

    Neither man is an offensive weapon, but we can hope. 🙂

  55. Kiltymcbagpipes says:

    Kiltymcbagpipes,

    Expendable maybe? I think if he gets banged up again or has a down year he should be considered to be the guy from the leftorium that is moved if needed not Davidson, Sekera or Nurse for that matter.

    Hope he stays healthy but I wouldn’t be shocked if Larsson becomes the player we thought Klefbom was going to be. Time will tell

  56. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide,

    My RE for Oscar is 70 GP 7 goals 29 assists.

    For what its worth, I would be comfortable describing both Adam and Oscar as two-way D. Just my opinion. We’ll know more in a year, agreed. 😉 Nothing wrong with hedging the bet low. It’s just good business around these parts.

  57. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: …involving a “journalist” of which we know nothing.

    I had a little bit of leeway there, but then our own Swedish Poster drilled down on it with his translation:

    “At the same time I understand the reactions. Taylor has been our best player the last few years, but it’s also hard to say what his contributions were. He never played his best games against the best teams, when we needed him the most. He was amazing against the slightly inferior teams though.”

    His fantastic translation is posted at 5:50 in this thread
    http://lowetide.ca/2016/07/31/sunday-morning-830/

    I like Klefbom, suspect he is going to have a long and productive career. It was in his natural language, and we should be aware that there are elements (facial expressions, etc) that can factor in. That said, my comment on Klefbom specifically was about losing respect for him. If no one shares that feeling, that is fine by me. It is also true that those who are around him far more than me (like Matty) reacted swiftly.

    As I said in the RE, suspect this comes back time and again. It is too bad, everything we know about him, including his retraction, suggests he is a good fellow.

  58. npanciroli says:

    I don’t really need any of my defencemen to be offensive weapons, unless that includes making a good first pass. Schultz was an offensive weapon but only when he was in range in the O-zone, never had a great first pass either IMO.

    I want my defencemen to be able to defend, retrieve the puck from the opposition and move it to the forwards without chipping it out.

    I think Klefbom and Larsson will be able to do that as a legitimate top pairing.

  59. JDï™ says:

    Soup Fascist: Cockburn’s songs – slightly altered – have promise:

    Harlequin’s as well:

    Swede Things in Life

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeogQN0CSx4

  60. Ducey says:

    Lowetide: Those are my comparables, perhaps you can pass along your comparables.

    From a different era – Glenn Anderson.

    Terrific skating, fearlessness going to the net, good point producer, not overly physical. A bit reclusive, perhaps misunderstood. About the same size.

    Anderson no doubt benefitted from his circumstances and became a “clutch” player due to the fact his team was in big games. I doubt he would be a Hall of Famer had he not been sheltered by Gretzky and centered by Messier. One of my favourties because of the way he went to the net, the crazy ‘stache, and the almost sarcastic way he played. In this way he differed from Hall in that he seldom seemed to get flustered.

    The point totals are not really comparable given the current dead puck era.

  61. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: From a different era – Glenn Anderson.

    Terrific skating, fearlessness going to the net, good point producer, not overly physical.A bit reclusive, perhaps misunderstood. About the same size.

    Anderson no doubt benefitted from his circumstances and became a “clutch” player due to the fact his team was in big games.I doubt he would be a Hall of Famer had he not been sheltered by Gretzky and centered by Messier.One of my favourties because of the way he went to the net, the crazy ‘stache, and the almost sarcastic way he played.In this way he differed from Hall in that he seldom seemed to get flustered.

    The point totals are not really comparable given the current dead puck era.

    Great points. Anderson’s era makes comparables difficult, and of course he is/was so famous people have a skewed view of him (not a putdown, he was a wonderful player).

  62. npanciroli says:

    Not related to Klefbom, anyone think the trade goes differently or doesn’t happen if Hall is a better producer on the PP the last couple of years?

    Wonder if that was a piece that played into it.

  63. SkatinginSand says:

    Lowetide,

    Phli Kessel lite.

    Ducks and runs.

  64. frjohnk says:

    Centre of attention: My RE for Oscar is 70 GP 7 goals 29 assists.
    For what its worth, I would be comfortable describing both Adam and Oscar as two-way D.

    With Larsson we will see his defensive metrics ( SA/60 and HDSCA/60) increase as he goes from lowest event team ( NJ) to one of the higher event teams.
    but we will also see his offensive metrics increase as well.

    I think he will have a few points less than Klefbom as Klefbom ( if healthy) will get more PP time but should be within spitting distance.

  65. Lowetide says:

    SkatinginSand:
    Lowetide,

    Phli Kessel lite

    Kessel is a helluva player, but I would rate Hall higher.

  66. AsiaOil says:

    On LW I’d say OV, Benn are clearly superior. Paccioretty is more of a power forward and Forsburg is younger and a better goal scorer. Notice I’m not grabbing a single number and suggesting it’s the be all and end all. Parise is a pretty good comp but getting older and maybe Gadreau – mostly the second tier guys. Didn’t realize Hall only had 12 PPP last year – tied for 25th with the illustrious Jussi Jokinen – and only 4 PPG which is ONE LESS than Maroon. You’ve got to tell the whole story or you are just blowing smoke of varying colors. Hall has splendid possession numbers and ES point production but is not a goal scorer. His PP production is abysmal given the opportunities. My friends in our discussions about Eberle tell me goal scoring is the “most valuable skill” so I’ll throw that out there. The Oilers PP was not good and what role did Hall’s inadequacies in this role play? It’s a reasonable question and I honestly don’t know the answer.

    Overall I’d say Parise of a few years ago would be pretty close. Parise was a better goal scorer but maybe not quite the possession player Hall is – not sure on the latter point. Hall’s got a funny rep that doesn’t quite match reality. A finesse player who people somehow think is much tougher than he actually is. Great possession numbers and solid points but mediocre goal scoring and defense. Seems like a guy who never tried (or was pushed) to be more rounded – and at almost 25 – it’s unlikely to happen. He is what he is now for the most part.

  67. Lowetide says:

    AsiaOil:
    On LW I’d say OV, Benn are clearly superior. Paccioretty is more of a power forward and Forsburg is younger and a better goal scorer. Notice I’m not grabbing a single number and suggesting it’s the be all and end all.Parise is a pretty good comp but getting older and maybe Gadreau – mostly the second tier guys. Didn’t realize Hall only had 12 PPP last year – tied for 25th with the illustrious Jussi Jokinen – and only 4 PPG which is ONE LESS than Maroon. You’ve got to tell the whole story or you are just blowing smoke of varying colors. Hall has splendid possession numbers and ES point production but is not a goal scorer. His PP production is abysmalgiven the opportunities. My friends in our discussions about Eberle tell me goal scoring is the “most valuable skill” so I’ll throw that out there. The Oilers PP was not good and what role did Hall’s inadequacies in this role play? It’s a reasonable question and I honestly don’t know the answer.

    Overall I’d say Parise of a few years ago would be pretty close. Parise was a better goal scorer but maybe not quite the possession player Hall is – not sure on the latter point. Hall’s got a funny rep that doesn’t quite match reality. A finesse player who people somehow think is much tougher than he actually is. Great possession numbers and solid points but mediocre goal scoring and defense. Seems like a guy who never tried (or was pushed) to be more rounded – and at almost 25 – it’s unlikely to happen.He is what he is now for the most part.

    Either way, I think we safely avoided the Messier comp. 🙂

  68. stevezie says:

    Helluva song. Great advice about the second go round too.

    Lowetide,

    I think Kessel is a decent comp (another excellent player on a bad team- he has silenced all but his dishonest critics), but has slightly higher counting numbers. What about Hall has you ranking him higher?

    We did better for Hall than they did for Kessel, but i believe the league clearly underrates scoring forwards. I’m curious why Gaborik consistently fetches so much.

  69. Lowetide says:

    npanciroli:
    Not related to Klefbom, anyone think the trade goes differently or doesn’t happen if Hall is a better producer on the PP the last couple of years?

    Wonder if that was a piece that played into it.

    I always thought Hall was less effective on the PP than he should have been. I love his game, but the 5×54 ability of Nuge and Eberle always seemed to work better. Moot point now with McDavid here.

  70. AsiaOil says:

    Lowetide: Great points. Anderson’s era makes comparables difficult, and of course he is/was so famous people have a skewed view of him (not aputdown, he was a wonderful player).

    Yeah Anderson with less sass is a pretty good historical comp – said it many times myself. Andy was a dirty bastard though who didn’t back down from anyone – had to be to survive those Battle of Alberta series. Always wished Hall had developed more of an attitude and was less of a target.

  71. AsiaOil says:

    Yeah but it denied me some fun though 🙂

    Lowetide: Either way, I think we safely avoided the Messier comp.

  72. Lowetide says:

    stevezie:
    Helluva song. Great advice about the second go round too.

    Lowetide,

    I think Kessel is a decent comp (another excellent player on a bad team- he has silenced all but his dishonest critics), but has slightly higher counting numbers. What about Hall has you ranking him higher?

    We did better for Hall than they did for Kessel, but i believe the league clearly underrates scoring forwards. I’m curious why Gaborik consistently fetches so much.

    Hall has a higher points-per-game number than Kessel, pretty sure.

  73. stevezie says:

    AsiaOil: Hall has splendid possession numbers

    Definitely his elite skill, and the most en vogue right now.

    That said, while your criticisms are fair i think you underrate his offence. Driving possession with almost no puck moving defenceman is amazing, and the oilers pp has long been terrible. He’s not so good he’s a one-man solution to that, but if you put him with Klingberg I’ll bet money his pp numbers shoot up.

  74. Lowetide says:

    AsiaOil:
    Yeah but it denied me some fun though 🙂

    Haha. Well, wait a few days and try again I won’t interfere. 🙂

  75. frjohnk says:

    AsiaOil:
    On LW I’d say OV, Benn are clearly superior. Paccioretty is more of a power forward and Forsburg is younger and a better goal scorer. Notice I’m not grabbing a single number and suggesting it’s the be all and end all.Parise is a pretty good comp but getting older and maybe Gadreau – mostly the second tier guys. Didn’t realize Hall only had 12 PPP last year – tied for 25th with the illustrious Jussi Jokinen – and only 4 PPG which is ONE LESS than Maroon. You’ve got to tell the whole story or you are just blowing smoke of varying colors. Hall has splendid possession numbers and ES point production but is not a goal scorer. His PP production is abysmalgiven the opportunities. My friends in our discussions about Eberle tell me goal scoring is the “most valuable skill” so I’ll throw that out there. The Oilers PP was not good and what role did Hall’s inadequacies in this role play? It’s a reasonable question and I honestly don’t know the answer.

    Overall I’d say Parise of a few years ago would be pretty close. Parise was a better goal scorer but maybe not quite the possession player Hall is – not sure on the latter point. Hall’s got a funny rep that doesn’t quite match reality. A finesse player who people somehow think is much tougher than he actually is. Great possession numbers and solid points but mediocre goal scoring and defense. Seems like a guy who never tried (or was pushed) to be more rounded – and at almost 25 – it’s unlikely to happen.He is what he is now for the most part.

    The 3rd LW spot after Ovechkin and Benn is really up for grabs. A good argument could have been made that Hall was number 3 on that list two years ago but since then, Eakins and injuries in 14-15 and a faceplant at the end of last year for Hall have not helped, along with the other guys now in the conversation like you mentioned has pushed Hall down the list.

  76. npanciroli says:

    stevezie: Definitely his elite skill, and the most en vogue right now.

    That said, while your criticisms are fair i think you underrate his offence. Driving possession with almost no puck moving defenceman is amazing, and the oilers pp has long been terrible. He’s not so good he’s a one-man solution to that, but if you put him with Klingberg I’ll bet money his pp numbers shoot up.

    Relative to the team aren’t Hall’s PP numbers pretty poor though?

  77. Genjutsu says:

    AsiaOil,

    “His PP production is abysmal given the opportunities.”

    You talk about telling the whole story, then use hyperbole.

    He was 25th PPP at his position, you just said that.

    Hall is a terrific player, the 3rd best at his position if you count Ovi there. Top 5 in anyone’s books. Absolutely elite at evens and an average Power play guy.

    I’m going to miss him.

    He gone now, it’s time to move on.

  78. npanciroli says:

    I’m insanely excited to get this season started and see how Hall and Larsson play out for their respective teams. Hopefully its a win/win for both teams.

  79. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: Hall has a higher points-per-game number than Kessel, pretty sure.

    So does Eberle. Just sayin. 🙂

  80. frjohnk says:

    One area Hall was good at in the PP was that he could use his speed to gain entry better than anyone not named McDavid. Just because a guy does not get the points on the PP does not mean he is a bad PP guy. He was never in the position to be a shooter and the PP never was never QB’d be him so his lack of points there isn’t a huge surprise.

  81. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: So does Eberle. Just sayin.🙂

    AND one suspects Eberle’s point-per-game average is about to spike.

  82. npanciroli says:

    frjohnk:
    One area Hall was good at in the PP was that he could use his speed to gain entry better than anyone not named McDavid.Just because a guy does not get the points on the PP does not mean he is a bad PP guy.He was never in the position to be a shooterand the PP never was never QB’d be him so his lack of points there isn’t a huge surprise.

    This is a good point that I didn’t consider. Gaining the zone is super important. Did Sunil do some data on shot attempts awhile ago looking at Hall? I wonder if the team shot attempts on the PP were still high even if he isn’t cashing in on points?

  83. npanciroli says:

    Here is the post from sunilagni Re: Hall and PP. Haven’t had a chance to go through it again just found it.

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2016/3/18/11257196/the-oilers-powerplay-hall

  84. frjohnk says:

    Pouzar: So does Eberle. Just sayin.

    Since 2010 ( using 150 games)
    Points/60 5 on 5

    Hall ranks 11th with 2.27
    EBERLE ranks 18th with 2.16
    Kessel ranks 36th with 2.11

    Getting into the slot and getting a shot attempt away per game

    Hall ranks 9th with 1.18 per game.
    EBERLE ranks 31st with 1.004 per game.
    Kessel ranks 32nd with 1.000 per game.

    These guys have many similarities including having to play for a gong show of an organization for every year except last.

  85. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide: AND one suspects Eberle’s point-per-game average is about to spike.

    If he scores more does that mean he has to backcheck less?

  86. godot10 says:

    Ducey: From a different era – Glenn Anderson.

    Terrific skating, fearlessness going to the net, good point producer, not overly physical.A bit reclusive, perhaps misunderstood. About the same size.

    Anderson no doubt benefitted from his circumstances and became a “clutch” player due to the fact his team was in big games.I doubt he would be a Hall of Famer had he not been sheltered by Gretzky and centered by Messier.One of my favourties because of the way he went to the net, the crazy ‘stache, and the almost sarcastic way he played.In this way he differed from Hall in that he seldom seemed to get flustered.

    The point totals are not really comparable given the current dead puck era.

    You do realize that Anderson was the best player on Canada’s Olympic team in 1980 at age 20. And in a seven game series, the Canadian team probably would have beaten the Americans.

    Anderson wasn’t carried by anybody. He would have been a star in his own right whereever he played.

  87. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    I owe you a coke.

    If you’re still taking suggestions, Hawksley’s “Clever Not Beautiful” and Dusty Tucker’s “Outranked, Outgunned, and Too Pretty” are pretty great cancon titles (and songs).

  88. stevezie says:

    frjohnk,

    What do you want to do, just start passing to the other team? Start shooting on Talbot to keep it fresh?

  89. Centre of attention says:

    Keep in mind, all my projections (including Klefboms above) this season take into account the new goalie equipment. Also, the NHL fired and then hired a bunch of new Refs. Perhaps more actual power plays?

  90. JDï™ says:

    Centre of attention: hired a bunch of new Refs

    Because as we all know, rookies are the answer!

    Now what was the question…

  91. Oilspill says:

    You can’t accurately predict how they will do. It all depends on their D partner the forwards on at the same time and the actual level of competition. Looking at the past is simply a generalization.

  92. JimmyV1965 says:

    I think it’s probably a wise idea to back off on the Klefbom expectations just a wee bit. The guy has played a grand total of 107 games in the NHL. To think of him as one of the most important players on the team is really sad actually. Not only are these unrealistic expectations, they are unwarranted. Davidson is a great prospect at LW as well and we also have Sekera. We are banking much more heavily on Larsson, one of the few decent RDs in the entire organization. At least he’s played 275 games. Don’t get me wrong. I think Klef is a great prospect with wonderful offensive upside. However, it’s probably a lot more healthy to temper our expectations.

  93. frjohnk says:

    stevezie:
    frjohnk,

    What do you want to do, just start passing to the other team? Start shooting on Talbot to keep it fresh?

    In regards to the first question, nikitin was most likely at the top of the league in ” passes on the tape to the wrong team per 60″.

    Anyways. The jab at EBERLE was more a jab at the narrative that EBERLE NEVER back checks.

  94. stevezie says:

    frjohnk,

    I know, i was just trying to jump on board.

    I’ll never be cool.

  95. Lowetide says:

    stevezie:
    frjohnk,

    I know, i was just trying to jump on board.

    I’ll never be cool.

    Me either.

  96. JDï™ says:

    stevezie: I’ll never be cool.

    Maybe lose the toque?

  97. Revolved says:

    LT, I understand that your REs are mostly based on averages from previous years, but what do you think is going to cost Klefbom almost 30 games this year? Have you docked him for the Hall comment? This will only become a recurring thing if people in the media continue to bring it up. I expect he was simply elated to have a fellow swede, and competent RD, as his partner, and felt it necessary to justify this. Did you ever say anything silly in your early twenties?

    I think that Hall’s struggles on the PP vs EV display his strengths and weaknesses quite clearly. The man has rocket skates and if he catches a team on the rush, he gets his chances and pushes the river even when he doesn’t score. On the PP, teams are prepared to defend the box and Hall lacks the finesse to beat NHL D from a stand still. He is certainly elite at gaining the zone, but I do believe it will work more consistently to have our D transitioning the puck to the forwards.

    I believe Klefbom/Larsson could be one of the best first pairs for value in the league over the majority of their contracts.

  98. Suntory Hanzo says:

    Just found out my brother in law secured tickets for us from his family for both games Winter Classic weekend.

    Anyone else making the trek? I’ve never been to Winnipeg before.

  99. npanciroli says:

    Revolved:
    LT, I understand that your REs are mostly based on averages from previous years, but what do you think is going to cost Klefbom almost 30 games this year? Have you docked him for the Hall comment? This will only become a recurring thing if people in the media continue to bring it up. I expect he was simply elated to have a fellow swede, and competent RD, as his partner, and felt it necessary to justify this. Did you ever say anything silly in your early twenties?

    I think that Hall’s struggles on the PP vs EV display his strengths and weaknesses quite clearly. The man has rocket skates and if he catches a team on the rush, he gets his chances and pushes the river even when he doesn’t score. On the PP, teams are prepared to defend the box and Hall lacks the finesse to beat NHL D from a stand still. He is certainly elite at gaining the zone, but I do believe it will work more consistently to have our D transitioning the puck to the forwards.

    I believe Klefbom/Larsson could be one of the best first pairs for value in the league over the majority of their contracts.

    I think Klefbom has had injury issues his whole hockey career (all different injuries though?) which would be reasonable to expect it to continue to happen. Otherwise I agree with everything especially the last sentence.

  100. JDï™ says:

    Suntory Hanzo: Just found out my brother in law secured tickets for us from his family for both games Winter Classic weekend.

    I just found out my brother in law is a bigger dork than I thought he was.

    Congrats! Beers are on Pouzar (don’t mention The Hip).

  101. rickithebear says:

    AsiaOil: I’d say not applicable all around. Benn, Seguin, Tavares are all far superior goal scorers (consistent 30-40 goals) and all but Benn are centers who play a different (and more important) position. Giroux is a better match but again he’s a center and much better defensively. How about a few LW beside Benn who is undisputably more valuable than Hall?

    Hall faced PvP

    Seguin; Benn only recently grew into men (1st comp)
    Tavares will have to be a man now that nielson is gone (1st comp)

  102. bendelson says:

    stevezie,

    Lowetide,

    Anyone can be cool, but awesome takes practice.

  103. Ducey says:

    godot10: You do realize that Anderson was the best player on Canada’s Olympic team in 1980 at age 20.And in a seven game series, the Canadian team probably would have beaten the Americans.

    Anderson wasn’t carried by anybody.He would have been a star in his own right whereever he played.

    You apparently don’t realize that pro players didn’t play on the 1980 Olympic team. Hardly a stacked roster http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/Team-Canada/Men/Olympics/1980/CAN-Roster

    I was not criticizing Anderson or Hall. Merely pointing out that Anderson wouldn’t have been “clutch” or a Hall of Famer had he played on lesser teams.

  104. kinger_OIL says:

    Lowetide: Hall has a higher points-per-game number than Kessel, pretty sure.

    – Not once has Hall scored more goals than Kessel. Kessel has had 30+ goals 5 times

    – Hall’s best year, he and Kessel tied for points.

  105. Pajamah says:

    bendelson:
    stevezie,

    Lowetide,

    Anyone can be cool, but awesome takes practice.

    Coolsville, daddio!

    *clears throat, decidedly more alto*

    Coooooooolsville, daddio!!!!!

    *punches mirror, runs away crying*

  106. G Money says:

    You guys seen the little utility that takes your tweets and turns them into a poem?

    Quite amusing.

    The Oilers Nerd Alert poem: http://i.imgur.com/LUrvbpy.png

  107. Lowetide says:

    kinger_OIL: – Not once has Hall scored more goals than Kessel. Kessel has had 30+ goals 5 times

    – Hall’s best year, he and Kessel tied for points.

    These are interesting facts, but I would take Hall over Kessel. As mentioned previously, Hall’s points-per-game is superior, and others have chimed in with his possession numbers and 5×5 play. I could be wrong, maybe Kessel is the better player—he is a very good one.

  108. godot10 says:

    Ducey: You apparently don’t realize that pro players didn’t play on the 1980 Olympic team. Hardly a stacked roster http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/Team-Canada/Men/Olympics/1980/CAN-Roster

    I was not criticizing Anderson or Hall.Merely pointing out that Anderson wouldn’t have been “clutch” or a Hall of Famer had he played on lesser teams.

    Every moron knows that NHL players were not on the 1980’s Olympic team. The Soviet Union was still the Soviet Union, And Czechoslovakia was still Czechoslovakia.

    And the Anderson-led Canadian team was competitive with everyone, including the Americans.

    The only difference is that the Americans got lucky in Lake Placid, and the Canadian team, not so much.

    Anderson was the best player on the North American teams…better than Broten and Johnson.

    Anderson was NOT made by anybody. He rode nobodies coattails. He would have been a Hall of Famer anywhere. Arguably the Oilers hurt him, because the Oilers were so good, he was a bit of a slacker when the Oilers got big leads. And his power play numbers were depressed because he didn’t get the PP time in Edmonton that he would have gotten elsewhere.

  109. Bank Shot says:

    godot10: Every moron knows that NHL players were not on the 1980’s Olympic team.The Soviet Union was still the Soviet Union,And Czechoslovakia was still Czechoslovakia.

    And the Anderson-led Canadian team was competitive with everyone, including the Americans.

    The only difference is that the Americans got lucky in Lake Placid, and the Canadian team, not so much.

    Anderson was the best player on the North American teams…better than Broten and Johnson.

    Anderson was NOT made by anybody.He rode nobodies coattails.He would have been a Hall of Famer anywhere.Arguably the Oilers hurt him, because the Oilers were so good, he was a bit of a slacker when the Oilers got big leads. And his power play numbers were depressed because he didn’t get the PP time in Edmonton that he would have gotten elsewhere.

    I think Anderson would be remembered like Rick Middleton if he played his career on an average team.

    Not at all remembered.

  110. JDï™ says:

    G Money,

    That looks like a Beck song!

  111. leadfarmer says:

    Why does Hall need to be compared to another player. Hall is Hall. He compares well with Hall. He will continue being Hall.

  112. Lowetide says:

    leadfarmer:
    Why does Hall need to be compared to another player.Hall is Hall.He compares well with Hall.He will continue being Hall.

    Certainly. We were just chatting, but there is no rule saying we need to compare him to anyone.

  113. JDï™ says:

    leadfarmer: Why does Hall need to be compared to another player.

    How else will the PPG v games played debate get started?

    Here’s another angle: If we limit the stats to just the last six seasons, Kessel hasn’t missed a game while scoring at a 0.869 PPG rate.

  114. bendelson says:

    Answer: Constantines and The Weakerthans.
    Question: Name two great Canadian bands Bendelson had never heard of until he saw them mentioned repeatedly on a hockey blog.

    You may not consider yourself ‘cool’ LT, but your blog sure as hell is…
    Awesome.

  115. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Lowetide: AND one suspects Eberle’s point-per-game average is about to spike.

    Thanks to a newfound ability to one-time a puck.

  116. Klima's_Bucket says:

    bendelson,

    The Weakerthans song One Great City sums up my thoughts on Winnipeg and the Jets.

    With a line that says “The Jets were lousy anyway.”

    And a simple chorus of “I hate Winnipeg.”

    Check it out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlsjEP7L-k

  117. bendelson says:

    Klima's_Bucket,

    And now I like them just a little bit more…

  118. stevezie says:

    Klima's_Bucket,

    Their best song, and that’s saying something.

  119. blainer says:

    I really do worry that Klef may turn into whitney..

    If not we should have one helluva of a player there. Only time will tell for sure. As for ice time.. I think Davey is really gonna challenge Klef on that stat. Call it a gut feeling but i think Davey breaks out to become our best D this year.

    For the first time in like forever we finally have some proper competition for ice time rather than having it gifted like we did with Jultz for years.

    Just the mere fact that we do NOT have Jultz any longer makes this D core sooooo much better.

  120. season not played says:

    AsiaOil:
    Still waiting for someone to give me their Hall comp……..silence is deafening. Come on – I know people want to say Messier – go ahead and let the fun begin

    This is a funny way to stir the pot.

    Phil Kessel

  121. Lowetide says:

    season not played: This is a funny way to stir the pot.

    Phil Kessel

    Not really. Phil Kessel is a helluva player. Aim lower.

  122. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Tarasenko/Gaudreau/Giroux/Voracek and big name Stamkos.

    All in the same range of all situations P/60 if we are going to question his PP

  123. season not played says:

    Lowetide,

    You misunderstand me LT. I was commenting on Asia’s obvious pot stirring so soon after the Last Chance Texaco Debacle.

    Phil Kessel is my comparable.

    If I was pot stirring I would have said something like Phil Kessel without the laser shot, or possession numbers mean nothing if they result in harmless opportunities.

    That said, Kessel is one of the most gifted players in the league. Leading in to his draft year, iirc, there was actually some quiet debate about Kessel v Crosby based strictly on offensive talent but then the Kessel “issues” knocked him down a few spots in that draft.

    Out of respect for you LT I’m going to leave it at that.

  124. HT Joe says:

    Lowetide: I like Klefbom, suspect he is going to have a long and productive career. It was in his natural language, and we should be aware that there are elements (facial expressions, etc) that can factor in. That said, my comment on Klefbom specifically was about losing respect for him. If no one shares that feeling, that is fine by me. It is also true that those who are around him far more than me (like Matty) reacted swiftly.

    The one thing I thought of when I read this line was that didn’t Hall dismiss Yakupov – a current teammate – just before the start of the 2014-2015 season, referring to Yakupov as a European or Russian player who never had to learn a system under Krueger. That kind of statement is way worse than calling a former teammate the best player on the team who wasn’t able to single-handedly beat the best teams.

    Am I totally out-to-lunch regarding the Hall comment? I cannot find a link to it, but I remember being put off by it at the time.

    EDIT: I bring this up to make the point that these young men are all imperfect, and I think it’s a bit excessive to hold Klefbom accountable to a potential translation issue when his fellow teammates have said worse.

  125. Woodguy says:

    frjohnk: The 3rd LW spot after Ovechkin and Benn is really up for grabs.A good argument could have been made that Hall was number 3 on that list two years ago but since then, Eakins and injuries in 14-15 and a faceplant at the end of last year for Hall have not helped, along with the other guys now in the conversation like you mentioned has pushed Hall down the list.

    Hall played mostly with a 20yr old C and Teddy Purcell and still finished 8th in the NHL in total 5v5 points.

    Had to finish the year after the deadline with the 20 year old and a mix of non-NHL (Pakarinen) and a marginal NHLer who was gassed (Kassian)

    8th in the NHL in 5v5 points.

    Man.

  126. Lowetide says:

    season not played:
    Lowetide,

    You misunderstand me LT. I was commenting on Asia’s obvious pot stirring so soon after the Last Chance Texaco Debacle.

    Phil Kessel is my comparable.

    If I was pot stirring I would have said something like Phil Kessel without the laser shot, or possession numbers mean nothing if they result in harmless opportunities.

    That said, Kessel is one of the most gifted players in the league. Leading in to his draft year, iirc, there was actually some quiet debate about Kessel v Crosby based strictly on offensive talent but then the Kessel “issues” knocked him down a few spots in that draft.

    Out of respect for you LT I’m going to leave it at that.

    Ah, I misunderstood. My apologies.

  127. Ducey says:

    godot10: Every moron knows that NHL players were not on the 1980’s Olympic team.The Soviet Union was still the Soviet Union,And Czechoslovakia was still Czechoslovakia.

    And the Anderson-led Canadian team was competitive with everyone, including the Americans.

    The only difference is that the Americans got lucky in Lake Placid, and the Canadian team, not so much.

    Anderson was the best player on the North American teams…better than Broten and Johnson.

    Anderson was NOT made by anybody.He rode nobodies coattails.He would have been a Hall of Famer anywhere.Arguably the Oilers hurt him, because the Oilers were so good, he was a bit of a slacker when the Oilers got big leads. And his power play numbers were depressed because he didn’t get the PP time in Edmonton that he would have gotten elsewhere.

    Canada finished 6th. They beat the Netherlands, Poland and Japan. They lost to Finland, Czech, and the Soviets.

    The Americans did get lucky.

    The point is that there were not very many good players on US/ Canada. Few amounted to much in the pro game. Anderson was one of the best, but he did not have a lot of competition.

    Saying he played for the Olympic team in 1980 doesn’t mean that much.

  128. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: Canada finished 6th. The beat the Netherlands, Poland and Japan. They lost to Finland, Czech, and the Soviets.

    The Americans did get lucky.

    The point is that there were not very many good players on US/ Canada. Few amounted to much in the pro game. Anderson was one of the best, but he did not have a lot of competition.

    Saying he played for the Olympic team in 1980 doesn’t mean that much.

    The Russians pissed around with their goaling too, iirc.

  129. godot10 says:

    Ducey:

    Saying he played for the Olympic team in 1980 doesn’t mean that much.

    There were a lot of very good players on the Canadian and US Olympic team that year. Anderson was the best player on both squads.

    Anderson, Gregg, MacLean, Nill, Watters, Nill Broten, Johnson, Christian, Morrow, Ramsey, Pavlich, Silk

    11 Stanley Cups on Canada, 5 on the United States…for example.

    Glenn Anderson wasn’t made by anybody. He was going to be a star wherever he played. He had 30 goals in two thirds of an NHL season as a rookie, when Mark Messier was still in his training wheels.

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