RE 16-17 GERRY FLEMING: WHERE DO THE BOYS GO?

The Edmonton Oilers have to produce inexpensive and useful talent via the minor leagues. A key component in the process is the AHL coach. Todd Nelson left for Edmonton in the 2014-15 season, and Gerry Fleming has been the head coach of the Oilers minor league teams (OKC, Bakersfield) since. If we can agree that the number one job of the AHL coach is to develop NHL players, how is Gerry Fleming doing? (Where Do The Boys Go?)

  1. What is the best thing you can say about Fleming? Having not seen the Condors on a regular basis, I will say his players performed very well on recall to Edmonton. Jujhar Khaira looked good right away, Brossoit had a dandy first game, Griffin Reinhart looked better by eye when he came back.
  2. Which prospect improved most in Fleming’s first season? I would list Jujhar Khaira, who emerged as a legit NHL prospect this past season. We don’t know if Fleming helped him find his offense or Khaira matured, but there was a long and uneven offensive record with this player and some light went on somewhere.
  3. Which prospect disappointed most in Fleming’s first season? Anton Slepyshev looked good in the fall (made the NHL!) but took forever to settle in with Bakersfield. Part of it was injury, but this is a player who the Oilers need to cash. I don’t know that we could blame the coach in this area—could be injury, adjustment (he played in the KHL in the previous year and then hung around the NHL for the first while) or a combination of both items.
  4. Anything weird about his roster? Mostly lefties on D, Fleming made it work (as Nelson did before him). Sounds like help is on the way, although it could take a year or two to get to Bakersfield.
  5. How many legit NHL prospects played in Bakersfield a year ago? I will list Leon Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse, Griffin Reinhart, Anton Slepyshev, Laurent Brossoit, Jordan Oesterle, David Musil, Jujhar Khaira, Dillon Simpson, Kyle Platzer and Bogdan Yakimov. That is 11.
  6. How many of those will make it? That number is always less than hoped for, bet the under. Fleming was an assistant coach for the 2008-09 Springfield Falcons. That team featured prospects Devan Dubnyk, Rob Schremp, Ryan Potulny, Ryan Stone, Slava Trukhno, J-F Jacques, Gilbert Brule, Colin McDonald, Taylor Chorney, Theo Peckham, Ryan O’Marra, Liam Reddox. That is 12, only Devan Dubnyk is an NHL regular.
  7. How many of those men played 100 NHL games? Nine. Only Dubnyk had a significant career, though.
  8. Nine is pretty successful. Not really. You would rather have Dubnyk and (say) Theo Peckham emerge as actual NHL players—or J-F Jacques turn into a solid checker who could help. Every team has a Ryan Potulny, getting a player who can solve a problem for five years instead of one is the big deal.
  9. Are Fleming’s Condors better than those Falcons? Yes, but Leon, Darnell and Reinhart are all top 10 overall picks. Hardly a fair comparison.
  10. Is there anything about the Condors’ deployment that is good or bad? I suspect but cannot prove that the Oilers minor league teams do not play their 20-year olds enough. Kyle Platzer was an example one year ago, there are others over the years. I hesitate to blame the coach, seems to me the organization could impose their will if it was a priority.
  11. Does he have a preference in terms of player? Seems to like the rugged types, fond of David Musil. Then again, he said Dillon Simpson was the team’s best overall defender so we should probably not read too much into these things.
  12. Anything else irritate you? I mentioned this the other day, but why bother to play (and feature) Josh Winquist and Marco Roy if there is no plan to bring them back?
  13. Is that a coaching thing? Don’t know. I guess the idea is to play and then evaluate. I just think Bob Green is uncovering some reasonable talent here, might be an idea to invest an NHL contract on one or two.
  14. What would you like to see? My guess is that Fleming will have a pretty attractive group of rookie pro’s this fall. Names include Drake Caggiula, Jere Sallinen, Patrick Russell, Nick Ellis and possibly Caleb Jones. I hope he plays them, and Greg Chase and Kyle Platzer, too.
  15. Are you generally satisfied with the progress of Edmonton’s prospects a year ago? Yes. Khaira needed to spike and he did, and if Chase or Platzer has a similar experience that is one more arrow at the pro level. Fleming doesn’t get a report card until 2020 for the efforts of 2016-17, but giving at-bats to prospects and putting them in a position to succeed is Job 1. I think his first full season of coaching the AHL team showed some promise, with some things (as mentioned above) possibly an organizational issue.
  16. Why this song? What a fantastic record, great version too. A very good band that should not be forgotten, and if you call them a one-hit wonder I will be very very angry.

 

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30 Responses to "RE 16-17 GERRY FLEMING: WHERE DO THE BOYS GO?"

  1. lynn says:

    I’m surprised Gerry Fleming is still the head coach of the Condors.

  2. jfry says:

    OT: is there a place/s where i can get comprehensive lists of the college free agents and european free agents that have signed NHL contracts in the off season?

    the nhl and tsn transaction pages don’t really help because they’re so full of existing nhl player contracts, etc.

    i’d like to find a list per team that shows the players they’ve “made bets on” like the oilers have with sallinen, ellis, russell, etc this off season.

    i appreciate anyone’s input. thanks.

  3. Lowetide says:

    jfry:
    OT: is there a place/s where i can get comprehensive lists of the college free agents and european free agents that have signed NHL contracts in the off season?

    the nhl and tsn transaction pages don’t really help because they’re so full of existing nhl player contracts, etc.

    i’d like to find a list per team that shows the players they’ve “made bets on” like the oilers have with sallinen, ellis, russell, etc this off season.

    i appreciate anyone’s input. thanks.

    College is here, you will need to scroll down to seniors
    http://www.uscho.com/pro-signings-2016/

  4. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide,

    ” 12. Anything else irritate you? I mentioned this the other day, but why bother to play (and feature) Josh Winquist and Marco Roy if there is no plan to bring them back? ”

    This is a question for Keith Gretzky and Bill scott (to some extent Chiarelli too, but he’s listening to those two), the coach is playing those guys because they are effective. Hard to blame the coach, really.

    Bogdan Yakimov departing is good news for Platzer, the Oilers possibly playing Cagguila at center isn’t. The Oilers could still claim a Mark McNeil type off waivers in the fall, and further complicate Platzers future. Honestly, Platzer may have to move to RW eventually to get up the depth chart. A right wing with two way acumen isn’t a bad thing for this prospect system is it? Just an opinion.

    PS: Do you think Jones will bring more or less offense than Simpson at the pro level? I’ve been thinking about what kind of player Caleb will be in the pro game and I can’t quite pin down how his rather surprising (and late blooming) Junior offense will translate.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Centre of attention:
    PS: Do you think Jones will bring more or less offense than Simpson at the pro level? I’ve been thinking about what kind of player Caleb will be in the pro game and I can’t quite pin down how his rather surprising (and late blooming) Junior offense will translate.

    Jones in the USHL didn’t score a lot but did post numbers in each discipline (4 pp assists and 2 sh assists over his two seasons). His final NHLE from USHL was seven points, so we should probably wait for another good offensive season.

  6. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: Jones in the USHL didn’t score a lot but did post numbers in each discipline (4 pp assists and 2 sh assists over his two seasons). His final NHLE from USHL was seven points, so we should probably wait for another good offensive season.

    So what you’re saying is you have no idea either haha. Honestly, he seems like a pretty motivated chap. Here’s a recent 2015 scouting report via Elite Prospects

    ” A versatile two-way defenseman that can fill many different roles and team needs in certain situations due to his workmanlike approach to his position. Possesses a tireless motor and is aggressive on the blue-line. Physicality and board battles are the anchors that hold his game together. Works hard in all situations and is a step ahead in problem solving. Exhibits good mobility, a quick, accurate shot from the point, and an active stick. All-in-all, a heads-up defenseman who plays a solid, smart all-around game. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015) ”

    I mean, thats some pretty high praise.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Centre of attention: So what you’re saying is you have no idea either haha. Honestly, he seems like a pretty motivated chap. Here’s a recent 2015 scouting report via Elite Prospects

    ” A versatile two-way defenseman that can fill many different roles and team needs in certain situations due to his workmanlike approach to his position. Possesses a tireless motor and is aggressive on the blue-line. Physicality and board battles are the anchors that hold his game together. Works hard in all situations and is a step ahead in problem solving. Exhibits good mobility, a quick, accurate shot from the point, and an active stick. All-in-all, a heads-up defenseman who plays a solid, smart all-around game. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015) ”

    I mean, thats some pretty high praise.

    Haha, yes. Jones has some leeway as to where he plays this year, and his speed appears to be pro quality. Suspect he ends up back in the dub, but you never know.

  8. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: Haha, yes. Jones has some leeway as to where he plays this year, and his speed appears to be pro quality. Suspect he ends up back in the dub, but you never know.

    I keep hearing about his shot, apparently he can rip it. Maybe because of his all-around ability his USHL coach just plugged him into a defensive role because that’s what that team needed at the time? Then the Winterhawks needed more of a puck mover and Caleb said “I can do that too, Coach!” and he did.

    I wonder how jumping to pro at 19 will affect his career development. I wouldn’t be against it FWIW, it would be an interesting case study. When was the last time we had a 19 year old in the AHL?

  9. Lowetide says:

    Centre of attention: I keep hearing about his shot, apparently he can rip it. Maybe because of his all-around ability his USHL coach just plugged him into a defensive role because that’s what that team needed at the time? Then the Winterhawks needed more of a puck mover and Caleb said “I can do that too, Coach!” and he did.

    I wonder how jumping to pro at 19 will affect his career development. I wouldn’t be against it FWIW, it would be an interesting case study. When was the last time we had a 19 year old in the AHL?

    Tyler Pitlick and Curtis Hamilton, but just for a month or so. The last 19 year old I recall? Michel Riesen.

  10. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide: Tyler Pitlick and Curtis Hamilton, but just for a month or so. The last 19 year old I recall? Michel Riesen.

    It will be an interesting case study then, indeed.

    What about comparable’s across the league?

  11. JDï™ says:

    lynn:
    I’m surprised Gerry Fleming is still the head coach of the Condors.

    And here I thought it was Guy Flaming.

  12. godot10 says:

    So Melissa Bishop takes four tenths of a second off of her best time ever in the 800m (and over a full second this year), beats all the other “women” in the race, and finishes 4th behind the three intersex athletes (hermaphrodites). Bummer.

  13. stevezie says:

    godot10,

    That’s gotta be a tough handto be dealt. I say let them have the medals.

  14. sliderule says:

    Fleming is a joke as a coach.

    His handling of Marincin probably is just the tip of the ice berg.

    Oilers should have overpaid Nelson to stay on as an AHL coach

  15. Oilspill says:

    Ya feel sorry for the girls who have a quarter of the natural testosterone. These girls (?) Fell off the charts when the had to reduce the testosterone levels but since the court struck it down theyve climbed back up. Tough hand or not it’s not really a women’s 800. Maybe introduce intersex catagories. Would sound like nascar ..the Intersex 800.

    godot10:
    So Melissa Bishop takes four tenths of a second off of her best time ever in the 800m (and over a full second this year), beats all the other “women” in the race, and finishes 4th behind the three intersex athletes (hermaphrodites).Bummer.

  16. Lowetide says:

    sliderule:
    Fleming is a joke as a coach.

    His handling of Marincin probably is just the tip of the ice berg.

    Oilers should have overpaid Nelson to stay on as an AHL coach

    Fleming would have coached Marincin (as head coach) for about 20 games)

    http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=48&id=4104
    and playoffs
    http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=50&id=4104

    I recall it being reported that Fleming spent a lot of time working with him, but do not recall a major rift (bumped him down come playoff time iirc). Can someone refresh my memory?

  17. stevezie says:

    Oilspill,

    The Olympics are, by definition, unfair. I am hardpressed to imagine a less fair contest.

    I don’t see the difference between a lady with incredibly high testosterone and, say… the various genetic deformities that make Michael Phelps possible. (There are a couple. It’s fascinating!) Same thing.

    To say nothing of the incredible advantage athletes from rich countries posses. To say nothing of the timing (pity the athlete who peaks in between Olympics.)

  18. godot10 says:

    stevezie:
    Oilspill,

    The Olympics are, by definition, unfair. I am hardpressed to imagine a less fair contest.

    I don’t see the difference between a lady with incredibly high testosterone and, say… the various genetic deformities that make Michael Phelps possible. (There are a couple. It’s fascinating!) Same thing.

    To say nothing of the incredible advantage athletes from rich countries posses. To say nothing of the timing (pity the athlete who peaks in between Olympics.)

    But the men’s competition/sports are an open competition. Women’s sports are by definition closed competition. A line has to be drawn a priori for women’s sports to exist.

    It is a really complicated ethical issue with no right answer. Does one protect a small minority of intersex athletes who have grown up with a female gender identity, or does one protect fair competition for the vast majority of women.

    Countries will go looking for intersex individuals to train for women’s sports. They are not so rare. Some people posit that there were three (of the eight athletes) in the women’s 800m final.

    There are supposedly two transgender athletes competing as women in the Olympics.

    It seems impossible to draw a line that respects the rights and that is fair to everyone.

  19. jimmers2 says:

    Phelps’ arms are a truly unusual advantage.

    Bishop ran a superb race, I can’t think of a Canadian who did so well in the 800m at the Olympics. She had a couple of nice surges, kept pace throughout and all of her work was done on the inside in traffic. Bishop was close but she was beaten clean by three other people. The 800m is a heartbreak event, it leaves everyone dizzy, wanting to wretch and seeing the god of Revelations, no matter how genetically advantaged you are. Everyone (really) hurts. If Bishop had more she would have poured it out. All respect to those competitors.

  20. skidplate says:

    Watching The Hip!!!!
    Thank Gord has taken on a whole new meaning. He is the Man!!!!!!!!

  21. Dee Dee says:

    skidplate,

    Grace Too, wow. Speechless.

  22. Tire Fire says:

    skidplate:
    Watching The Hip!!!!
    Thank Gord has taken on a whole new meaning. He is the Man!!!!!!!!

    I managed to nab some tickets to the Hamilton show to see them a couple of nights ago. Pretty good show. Grace Too and Don’t Wake Daddy were definitely the standouts of the show.

  23. skidplate says:

    Dee Dee,

    Scared and then Grace Too had my wife and I teary eyed…. Amazing night that we will never forget. Thank you Gord and The Hip!

  24. skidplate says:

    Tire Fire,

    Nice. Lucky to see them.

  25. kinger_OIL says:

    Your ahead by a century
    No dress rehearsal, this is our life

    – some wonderful lyrics

  26. sliderule says:

    Lowetide: Fleming would have coached Marincin (as head coach) for about 20 games)

    http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=48&id=4104
    and playoffs
    http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=50&id=4104

    I recall it being reported that Fleming spent a lot of time working with him, but do not recall a major rift (bumped him down come playoff time iirc).Can someone refresh my memory?

    The journal cult of hockey had a story on Marincin avoiding a hit on a neutral zone clear that resulted in an icing.
    The OKC play by play commentator went ballistic on air .and intimated he was chicken.The next game Marincin didn’t dress.
    The journal even had a video of the incident.

  27. Lowetide says:

    sliderule: The journal cult of hockey had a story on Marincin avoiding a hit on a neutral zone clear that resulted in an icing.
    The OKC play by play commentator went ballistic on air .and intimated he was chicken.The next game Marincin didn’t dress.
    The journal even had a video of the incident.

    Ah, yes. I remember now. Fleming benched him next game iirc. Thanks for refreshing an old man’s memory.

  28. godot10 says:

    sliderule: The journal cult of hockey had a story on Marincin avoiding a hit on a neutral zone clear that resulted in an icing.
    The OKC play by play commentator went ballistic on air .and intimated he was chicken.The next game Marincin didn’t dress.
    The journal even had a video of the incident.

    MacT and Eakins bullied and demeaned Marincin for two seasons before he “quit” on the OIlers in that playoff game. Marincin wasn’t a chicken. Avoiding that hit was a business decision, since he knew wasn’t signing another contract with the organization.

    MacT had let Klefbom go to the World Championships, but refused to allow Marincin to go to the World Championships.

  29. Lowetide says:

    godot10: MacT and Eakins bullied and demeaned Marincin for two seasons before he “quit” on the OIlers in that playoff game.Marincin wasn’t a chicken.Avoiding that hit was a business decision, since he knew wasn’t signing another contract with the organization.

    MacT had let Klefbom go to the World Championships, but refused to allow Marincin to go to the World Championships.

    Those items I remember very well, along with burying Gernat for similar perceived sins. Of course, Yakimov came over to train and the organization trumpeted it iirc. Well, that worked out!

  30. GCW_69 says:

    Lowetide: Those items I remember very well, along with burying Gernat for similar perceived sins. Of course, Yakimov came over to train and the organization trumpeted it iirc. Well, that worked out!

    The Edmonton Oilers – destroying prospects for really really stupid reasons since Gretzky left.

    That’s a motto to be proud of!

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