RE 16-17 CAM TALBOT: RAINO

Cam Talbot’s first solo dash across an Alberta winter started well, flagged, and then found traction. Although the wins didn’t come as often as required, Talbot delivered an above average season compared to the rest of his NHL goalie brethren—and did it from the most Northern and lonely outpost. Now. Do it again please and thanks (Rain-O).

CAM TALBOT ACTUAL 15-16: 56GP, 2.55 .917

  1. He was better than NHL average? Average was .915, he was slightly better—a lot better after November 30 (.924).
  2. That was a reasonable season for year one? I think so. Edmonton had a weird schedule, injuries galore, and outside that early wobble he played well.
  3. Where is the RE? It is at the bottom, you can zip down and look but come right back.
  4. Back. Good.
  5. How was his save percentage? At even strength (gold standard) he was .920, ranking him No. 20 among goalies who started 40 or more games.
  6. Overall save percentage? Talbot was .917, that ranked him No. 15 among goalies who started 40 or more games.
  7. Best save percentage? Probably against the power play. His .893 SP ranked No. 2 among goalies who started 40 or more games in 2016-17—that is an excellent number.
  8. Did he start slowly? Yes. In October—November, he played in 13 games, went 3-8-2 and posted an .889 save percentage.
  9. After that? December through April, he was 43, 18-19-3 and posted a .924 save percentage.
  10. Would a .924 SP get the Oilers into the playoffs? Depends on shot rate, et cetera but it would get them closer. Talbot is a good goalie—I don’t know if he is a five-year starter with a playoff run or two—but the Oilers should be a better team in front of him this season.
  11. Did you project his shots-per-60 to go down? I have all goalies a bit below team average from a year ago. Nothing crazy, but do think the Oilers will be a little better defensively.
  12. How much better defensively? Less than a half shot per game—but that is a lot, really. Edmonton went from 30 shots against in 2014-15 to 31.1 a year ago, my new number walks things back toward the 2014-15 level but not all the way.
  13. Do you think Talbot is this good? Yes. His save percentages over the last three seasons are .941, .926 and .917 and the last one as a starter.
  14. What has changed about him from this time last year? There was some question about his starting ability, for me that is less than an issue.
  15. What is he? Slightly above average goalie, and that is meant to be a compliment.
  16. What is the best thing about him? Edmonton has been all over the map with their goalies in the last decade, this guy appears to be at a good level with quite a bit left in the tank.
  17. What is the worst thing about him? I believe he is bona fide, but there are smart people who are not convinced. The position is so vital to success, Edmonton badly needs him to be consistent from game one. I wish he had better cover.
  18. What do you mean? I wish he had better support, a more proven backup.
  19. You question the addition of Gustavsson? Yes. I think the Oilers may feel they have a solid backup, but the numbers don’t really jive. I also have a suspicion the club really likes Laurent Brossoit and would not be surprised if he ends up being the backup early days of 2016-17.
  20. Will Chiarelli be aggressive if the goaltending falters early? I believe he will be, I believe he has to be, but the Oilers have surprised me with their lack of competitive fire for a decade.
  21. How much will Larsson help? I think he is a very good defenseman, and added to better health for Klefbom and Davidson, the Oilers should have five guys (adding in Sekera and Fayne) the coach can count on. Injuries will play a factor of course, but Edmonton should be relying on unproven defensemen far less this coming year.
  22. Was this Chiarelli’s best Oiler trade? I think it might be, based on importance of the position.
  23. What are some of the other contenders? Patrick Maroon, Zack Kassian could be considered one (we need to see both men for an entire season).
  24. So, in summary, you are saying Talbot is fine, needs a more substantial backup? That is exactly it. I hope Brossoit is as good as they clearly believe he will be in the coming season.
  25. Why this song? It is about renewal and the bringing of a new day, a new life. It is also a unique song and this version is not well known but has always been a favorite.

RE 16-17: 55GP, 2.44 .920

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147 Responses to "RE 16-17 CAM TALBOT: RAINO"

  1. Lowetide says:

    Lowdown, 10 this morning TSN1260. Scheduled to appear Bruce McCurdy, Derek Taylor (TSN analytics guy for CFL) and Matt van Oekel from the Eddies! 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

  2. Offside says:

    Being a goalie in soccer is criminally underrated. Being a goalie in hockey is less so, but the principle remains the same – you need a good support system to keep your mental game sharp. Considering the importance of the position and how cheap goalies are – there is no excuse not to have adequate depth

  3. Centre of attention says:

    You better not be teasing me with that Horcoff to the Oilers tweet LT!

  4. dustrock says:

    Hudler to Stars, 1 year, $2m.

    Sigh.

  5. Ducey says:

    dustrock:
    Hudler to Stars, 1 year, $2m.

    Sigh.

    Hudler is the H in the MEH line.

  6. kinger_OIL says:

    – Great post LT: I hope your wrong, and his GAA goes up by .3, but relative to the league he improves.

    – I hope the new equipment means more goals overall.

    – I’d like to get back to where goalies with GAA of under 3.00 are elite, and under 2.50: all world…Of course that will never happen, but more goals please.

    – Last year, the average goals per game per team was 2.71, and the SV% an alltime high @ .915

    – It’s fun to see in this link, but go back to 1996, post-lock out, 3.14 goals per game, , SV% below .900, and GAA above 3.00: for me that’s good Hockey product.

    – You had some really good teams, and some really bad teams (Detroit with 131 points: Ottawa with 41!). It really is amazing the “progress” the league has made in terms of parity, reduced goals, and a very stifled product. that Colarado Stanley Cup team was a fun hockey product though…:

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

  7. Bruce McCurdy says:

    kinger_OIL:
    – Great post LT: I hope your wrong, and his GAA goes up by .3, but relative to the league he improves.

    –I hope the new equipment means more goals overall.

    – I’d like to get back to where goalies with GAA of under 3.00 are elite, and under 2.50: all world…Of course that will never happen, but more goals please.

    – Last year, the average goals per game per team was 2.71, and the SV% an alltime high @ .915

    – It’s fun to see in this link, but go back to 1996, post-lock out, 3.14 goals per game, , SV% below .900, and GAA above 3.00: for me that’s good Hockey product.

    – You had some really good teams, and some really bad teams (Detroit with 131 points: Ottawa with 41!).It really is amazing the “progress” the league has made in terms of parity, reduced goals,and a very stifled product.that Colarado Stanley Cup team was a fund hockey product though…:

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

    the latest scuttlebutt that I’ve heard is that most of the new gear is on the back burner for another year or how era long they can stall. Perhaps a little streamlining of the pants otherwise business as usual.

    Parity, reduced goals, and a stifled product are all utterly logical outcomes of the Bettman Point, the single worst rule change in my now 53 years of following the sport. (& there have been a few doozies)

  8. Bruce McCurdy says:

    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game. He’ll be a fixture beside his usual partner Patrice Bergeron & they’ll kill it like they usually do.

  9. Woodguy says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game. He’ll be a fixture beside his usual partner Patrice Bergeron & they’ll kill it like they usually do.

    Truth

  10. frjohnk says:

    I see Talbot as a lower end number 1 goalie, somewhere in the 20 to 25 range if one where to rate them. Different stats show him better, other stats show him worse. Which is fine. With a better D core in front of him, he could make the jump closer to the elite range. He has had stretches of splendid play, so this gives me hope.

    But on the other side of the coin, he has had stretches of “FFS, you let THAT shot in?” play. I hope doesn’t but believe we need to recognize the possibility ( and I think its small) that Talbot could falter again.

    This team will go only as far as Talbot will take them.

  11. Chachi says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game. He’ll be a fixture beside his usual partner Patrice Bergeron & they’ll kill it like they usually do.

    And yet according to some he has had only one good season. Hopefully the Bruinization of the Oilers turns up a Brad Marchand clone sometime soon.

  12. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    I love Marchand.

    He is reportedly seeking 7million per season.

    I hope Chia doesn’t add another former Bruin at the expense of Eberle.

  13. bendelson says:

    kinger_OIL:
    – Great post LT: I hope your wrong, and his GAA goes up by .3, but relative to the league he improves.

    –I hope the new equipment means more goals overall.

    – I’d like to get back to where goalies with GAA of under 3.00 are elite, and under 2.50: all world…Of course that will never happen, but more goals please.

    – Last year, the average goals per game per team was 2.71, and the SV% an alltime high @ .915

    – It’s fun to see in this link, but go back to 1996, post-lock out, 3.14 goals per game, , SV% below .900, and GAA above 3.00: for me that’s good Hockey product.

    – You had some really good teams, and some really bad teams (Detroit with 131 points: Ottawa with 41!).It really is amazing the “progress” the league has made in terms of parity, reduced goals,and a very stifled product.that Colarado Stanley Cup team was a fund hockey product though…:

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

    Interestingly, if you back even further, the save percentages look at little more familiar to today’s game.
    1954-55: average sv%: .915. Top goalie: Harry Lumley – .929 sv%
    1964-65: average sv%: .908. Top goalie: Johnny Bower – .924sv%
    1970-71: average sv%: .904. Top goalie: Jacques Plante – .942sv%

  14. Ducey says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game. He’ll be a fixture beside his usual partner Patrice Bergeron & they’ll kill it like they usually do.

    Marchand got caught in this “logic”:

    1. The Hall trade was terrible
    2. Anyone that says otherwise is a moron
    3. Chia is a moron because of the Hall trade
    4. Most GM’s are morons
    5. People on the internet believe they are smarter than GM’s
    6. Which GM’s are morons is determined by comparing their most recent transaction to the Oilers situation. If their most recent transaction can help prove point 3, 4, or 5, then they are temporarily not a moron
    7. Team Canada is run by GM’s
    8. Team Canada is therefore run by Morons
    9. Team Canada picked Marchand over Hall
    10. Hall is better than Marchand because morons picked Marchand over Hall
    11. See point 5. It always comes back to point 5

  15. Lowetide says:

    Marchand is a terrific player. I worry about his health over the next five years, though.

  16. frjohnk says:

    Ducey: Marchand got caught in this “logic”:

    1. The Hall trade was terrible
    2. Anyone that says otherwise is a moron
    3. Chia is a moron because of the Hall trade
    4. Most GM’s are morons
    5. People on the internet believe they are smarter than GM’s
    6. Which GM’s are morons is determined by comparing their most recent transaction to the Oilers situation. If their most recent transaction can help prove point 3, 4, or 5, then they are temporarily not a moron
    7. Team Canada is run by GM’s
    8. Team Canada is therefore run by Morons
    9. Team Canada picked Marchand over Hall
    10. Hall is better than Marchand because morons picked Marchand over Hall
    11. See point 5. It always comes back to point 5

    Absolute mint!

  17. dustrock says:

    LT no mention of Talbot’s wife having twins in November?

    Good luck, son.

  18. Pouzar says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game. He’ll be a fixture beside his usual partner Patrice Bergeron & they’ll kill it like they usually do.

    Love the player. We are too damn polite around here!

  19. kinger_OIL says:

    bendelson: Interestingly, if you back even further, the save percentages look at little more familiar to today’s game.
    1954-55:average sv%:.915.Top goalie:Harry Lumley – .929 sv%
    1964-65:average sv%:.908.Top goalie:Johnny Bower –.924sv%
    1970-71:average sv%:.904.Top goalie:Jacques Plante – .942sv%

    – I don’t think the original-6 is a good proxy. The “speed” back then was actually great from the clips I’ve seen, much more back and forth. In the 1970, they were still scoring more than 3 goals per game per team, and plante @ .942 when GAA was above 3.00 amazing…

    – Maybe we all get stuck in the “golden age” as a reference, but I think I’m still objective:

    – NFL Football is much more fun in terms of scoring and dynamic offence because of rule changes (even though the oficial reviews have really stunted it, IMO)

    – NBA is a much better product with the combo of 3-points and ability to drive, as a result of rule-changes

    – I don’t know if a better “product” would be good business for the NHL, and I get the reason for creating “parity” to expand into the U.S., but really Hockey isn’t nearly as fun to watch anymore.

    – That’s why I thank LT and this blog for adding a dimension to the game that without, I am sure I’d be tuned out for good.

  20. Centre of attention says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    I was not trying to sh*t on Marchand, just saying Hall should of made the team over Marchand as designated LW’s.

    I’m fine with stacking centers, but if you are bringing a designated LW Hall should be near the top of the list IMO.

    To be clear: Marchand is a helluva player.

  21. theDjdj says:

    I remember reading (I swear it was on Woodguy’s blog but can’t find it) that there’s only a handful of goalies with reliably repeatable good performances year on year. The rest is a temperamental wash. I don’t think Talbot is elite but he has the skills to be successful when he runs hot and hopefully we’ve a team that can limit his exposure when he runs cold.

    Some nights, especially at the back end there, I think we acquired a Vezina candidate goalie. That horrid run at the start of the year marred an otherwise strong debut performance.

  22. theDjdj says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    A day late & a dollar short, but after reading yesterday’s thread I am rather astonished at how poorly regarded in this community is Brad Marchand. Yes he is a rat but he is also a fanfuckingtastic hockey player. Speedster, sniper, shit disturber, outscorer, & one of the finest penalty killers in the game.

    Is this the sort of upside we can expect from Puljujarvi? Fair?

  23. Frank the dog says:

    There is going to be a lot of love for Hall on this blog for quite a while methinks. Especially if this is not clearly a better team coming out the gate and beyond.
    At least the reason for overlooking Hall this time is not because Oilers.

  24. Centre of attention says:

    http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/lucic-close-to-10-teams-were-serious-ufa-bidders/

    This one is for Caramel Batman, regarding the thread the other day. Lucic had 10 serious offers on the table.

  25. bendelson says:

    kinger_OIL,

    Yeah, really just pointing out that the NHL has seen this level of goaltending dominance before.
    And yes, that season from Jacques Plante was really exceptional.
    And yes, the NHL as it currently stands, is not a particularly exciting game.

    But alas, it looks as though the ‘tenders will be strapping on the ridiculously enlarged equipment again this year.

    Question for the group: Does anybody know which goalie(s) were(are) guilty of wearing two pairs of pants?

  26. Centre of attention says:

    bendelson:
    kinger_OIL,

    Yeah, really just pointing out that the NHL has seen this level of goaltending dominance before.
    And yes, that season from Jacques Plante was really exceptional.
    And yes, the NHL as it currently stands, is not a particularly exciting game.

    But alas, it looks as though the ‘tenders will be strapping on the ridiculously enlarged equipment again this year.

    Question for the group:Does anybody know which goalie(s) were(are) guilty of wearing two pairs of pants?

    Miller has long been accused or suspected of wearing double size equipment. There are more examples but that is the first one I can think of.

    Miller is as thin as a fence post but in equipment he’s got a 50 inch waist. Somethings gotta give.

  27. kinger_OIL says:

    theDjdj: Is this the sort of upside we can expect from Puljujarvi? Fair?

    – Marchand wasn’t an effective player in the NHL for many years. Would love for pool-party to be Marchand: don’t expect him to be effective next year (hint: look at Marchand’s first stint in NHL):

    – Great development for Marchand actually: dominate in the Q, do well in year two @ AHL, do a combo AHL/NHL in year three, then be effective FOUR YEARS AFTER BEING DRAFTED!:

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=80463

  28. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Oh the never ending Hall debate. Lovely.

    The anti-Hall crowd over states the “negative locker room guy” case.

    The pro-Hall crowd categorically ignores the fact that his overall production over the past 2 years is a 60 point pace (51 points in 67 games). They blindly ignore his downtrend by favoring a 5 year span. Not necessarily wrong to consider the longer term, but completely ignoring a 2 year term is also pointing towards bias.

    Hall is a good player.

    Lots of good players don’t make team Canada every year.

    Claude Giroux has never played in the Olympics, and probably never will. You could build a Team Canada B team, send them to the Olympics, and give them a 15% chance of winning the gold with an expectation that they get a silver or bronze.

  29. Klima's_Bucket says:

    bendelson: Question for the group: Does anybody know which goalie(s) were(are) guilty of wearing two pairs of pants?

    Al Montoya was one.
    Jacob Markstrom is another.

    Those are the only 2 that first came to mind.

  30. Chachi says:

    bendelson: Question for the group: Does anybody know which goalie(s) were(are) guilty of wearing two pairs of pants?

    Given how badly the Dallas Stars goalies shit the bed last season, they probably should have been wearing two pairs of pants.

  31. G Money says:

    Vaguely related to Hall, Pulju, Yak, etc …

    Does anyone here know if someone has looked at winger handedness?

    I was mulling how bloated the expectations have become for Puljujarvi (RW, right shot), while Kinger is the only one who seems to have realistic expectations i.e. in line with JP’s results in the SM-Liiga, we should expect little to nothing from him at the NHL level this year.

    Then I mulled on Yak and his odd handedness (RW, left shot). Then I thought of Slappy, who like Puljujarvi, came into the league with high expectations from Oilers fans (“already played against men!” and good results in a better league and all that whatnot) yet (unsurprisingly) struggled.

    You’d think he (Slepyshev) would be more ready to step in this fall than anyone.

    Then I looked and realized he’s a left winger who shoots right – so like Yak, he’s playing off hand.

    Then I thought – is this a Russian thing? So I dug into my database and the answer is no, it is not.

    So before I dig in and spend the time to analyze the more general question (how common and how effective are off hand wingers?) … because once the question has been formulated, it must be answered! – I’m wondering if anyone has already done that work.

  32. bendelson says:

    G Money,

    For what it’s worth, Nashville seems to be overloaded with forwards playing their off wing.
    (They have a disproportionate amount of right shot forwards).

  33. godot10 says:

    kinger_OIL: – I don’t think the original-6 is a good proxy.The “speed” back then was actually great from the clips I’ve seen, much more back and forth.In the 1970, they were still scoring more than 3 goalsper game per team, and plante @ .942 when GAA was above 3.00 amazing…

    – Maybe we all get stuck in the “golden age” as a reference, but I think I’m still objective:

    – NFL Football is much more fun in terms of scoring and dynamic offence because of rule changes (even though the oficial reviews have really stunted it, IMO)

    – NBA is a much better product with the combo of 3-points and ability to drive, as a result of rule-changes

    – I don’t know if a better “product” would be good business for the NHL, and I get the reason for creating “parity” to expand into the U.S., but really Hockey isn’t nearly as fun to watch anymore.

    – That’s why I thank LT and this blog for adding a dimension to the game that without, I am sure I’d be tuned out for good.

    Freeing superstars to showcase their skills is what made the NBA the NBA. The NHL’s big boost in the US came when Gretzky was traded to LA…when a superstar got to showcase his skills.

    Not calling the rulebook in hockey, and allowing all the clutching and grabbing and fighting doesn’t allow the superstars to showcase their skills. Plus, one gets more skilled players, because more smaller players would make the grade.

    The NHL doesn’t have to change any rules. They just have to have the guts to call the damn rules.

    Apart from calling the rulebook, the main change i would like to see is the 3-point regulation win.

  34. Westchester Oil says:

    Going back to Talbot: regarding his early season problems, one thing that hasn’t been discussed was the awful goal he gave up to the Flamers on Halloween with 9 seconds left in the game. I believe that goal killed his confidence for the next month.

  35. jasontheschoolteacher says:

    Serious question….Why did Hall get “overlooked” for World Cup?

  36. Centre of attention says:

    G Money:
    Vaguely related to Hall, Pulju, Yak, etc …

    Does anyone here know if someone has looked at winger handedness?

    I was mulling how bloated the expectations have become for Puljujarvi (RW, right shot), while Kinger is the only one who seems to have realistic expectations i.e. in line with JP’s results in the SM-Liiga, we should expect little to nothing from him at the NHL level this year.

    Then I mulled on Yak and his odd handedness (RW, left shot).Then I thought of Slappy, who like Puljujarvi, came into the league with high expectations from Oilers fans (“already played against men!” and good results in a better league and all that whatnot) yet (unsurprisingly) struggled.

    You’d think he (Slepyshev) would be more ready to step in this fall than anyone.

    Then I looked and realized he’s a left winger who shoots right – so like Yak, he’s playing off hand.

    Then I thought – is this a Russian thing?So I dug into my database and the answer is no, it is not.

    So before I dig in and spend the time to analyze the more general question (how common and how effective are off hand wingers?) … because once the question has been formulated, it must be answered! – I’m wondering if anyone has already done that work.

    I think it is definitely a trend among Europeans, not just a Russian thing. Eriksson, Forsburg, etc play their off wing. Kane is a good North American example.

    I think you can get away with it better as a winger especially if you have a good backhand. It has its benefits in the offensive zone and its negatives in the D-zone.

  37. godot10 says:

    Centre of attention:
    Bruce McCurdy,

    I was not trying to sh*t on Marchand, just saying Hall should of made the team over Marchand as designated LW’s.

    I’m fine with stacking centers, but if you are bringing a designated LW Hall should be near the top of the list IMO.

    To be clear: Marchand is a helluva player.

    Hall/Subban don’t fit the extreme button-downed game that Babcock wants to play when he is coaching Team Canada.

    Now it is a bit of an unfair rap that both Hall and Subban have. If Team Canada had selection camps like the old days, then they would have the opportunity to earn Babcock’s trust, but selection camps are now frowned upon by the NHLPA. They don’t like players getting cut. They would just rather have them not be selected.

    But it is really no different than Keenan always cutting Yzerman from his Team Canada teams when there were selection camps.

  38. treevojo says:

    Klima’s_Bucket,

    Hey klima

    Just wondering if you saw my reply back in the nurse thread with regards to hotel in sunrise. I had to skip out to coach soccer so it was a little while after you posted.

    Cheers

  39. bendelson says:

    jasontheschoolteacher:
    Serious question….Why did Hall get “overlooked” for World Cup?

    Pick your favourites Jason:

    1) He’s a one-dimensional player.
    2) They chose poorly.
    3) He played on a perennial bottom-feeder.
    4) He falls down too much.
    5) There are many other great players to choose from.
    6) East coast bias.
    7) Not a ‘systems’ player – Babcock’s a ‘systems’ coach.
    8) The world is against Taylor Hall.

  40. leadfarmer says:

    jasontheschoolteacher:
    Serious question….Why did Hall get “overlooked” for World Cup?

    Because he’s a 60 point winger from a loser organization and therefore wouldn’t have the slightest clue on what to do with a championship title, let alone how to win one.

  41. godot10 says:

    Westchester Oil:
    Going back to Talbot: regarding his early season problems, one thing that hasn’t been discussed was the awful goal he gave up to the Flamers on Halloween with 9 seconds left in the game. I believe that goal killed his confidence for the next month.

    Last year Talbot was a goaltender coming from a good team learning how to play behind a bad team. He just wasn’t used to shots coming from weird angles from breakdowns and increased chaos in front of him.

    He adapted.

    I’m not worried about him.**

    **except for the twins.

  42. treevojo says:

    Lowetide:
    Marchand is a terrific player. I worry about his health over the next five years, though.

    Any reason in particular? I always was under the impression quick short compact players had good longevity.

  43. OF17 says:

    leadfarmer: Because he’s a 60 point winger from a loser organization and therefore wouldn’t have the slightest clue on what to do with a championship title, let alone how to win one.

    That’s why Hall has never won anything, right?

  44. Klima's_Bucket says:

    treevojo,

    No, but I’ll check it out.

  45. commonfan14 says:

    G Money,

    Don’t forget to overlay whether they are shooting with their dominant hands or not…

  46. godot10 says:

    Mike Keenan preferred Hawerchuk to Yzerman, in 1987 and 1991. Even chose a 16-year old Lindros over Yzerman in 1991.

    And Yzerman was not selected in 1996 when Sather was coaching. Hawerchuk made that team.

    So three times Dale Hawerchuk was selected over Steve Yzerman. Brent Sutter in 1987 and 1991 was selected over Steve Yzerman.

    And this was even after Yzerman was the leading Canadian scorer for Canada at the World Championships over about a decade.

    Yzerman was on a bad Detroit team. Only after he got credibility when Bowman began coaching Detroit and Detroit began winning Cups did he make Team Canada.

  47. frjohnk says:

    G Money:
    Vaguely related to Hall, Pulju, Yak, etc …

    Does anyone here know if someone has looked at winger handedness?

    I was mulling how bloated the expectations have become for Puljujarvi (RW, right shot), while Kinger is the only one who seems to have realistic expectations i.e. in line with JP’s results in the SM-Liiga, we should expect little to nothing from him at the NHL level this year.

    Then I mulled on Yak and his odd handedness (RW, left shot).Then I thought of Slappy, who like Puljujarvi, came into the league with high expectations from Oilers fans (“already played against men!” and good results in a better league and all that whatnot) yet (unsurprisingly) struggled.

    You’d think he (Slepyshev) would be more ready to step in this fall than anyone.

    Then I looked and realized he’s a left winger who shoots right – so like Yak, he’s playing off hand.

    Then I thought – is this a Russian thing?So I dug into my database and the answer is no, it is not.

    So before I dig in and spend the time to analyze the more general question (how common and how effective are off hand wingers?) … because once the question has been formulated, it must be answered! – I’m wondering if anyone has already done that work.

    I’m not sure someone has looked at the data.

    But I would bet that right shooting right wingers and that goes for lefties on the left do better not on their proper wing as they would
    – have better zone exits out of their own zone as they can see the play better as compared to their off wing.
    – receive passes better on their forehand compared to the backhand
    – make a higher % of completed passes as compared to their off wing as they are passing from their fore hand.

    The elite players who play offhand ( Jagr, Kane etc) it probably does not matter what side they play, they are elite, but it probably matters for guys that are not elite. How much? I don’t know. Maybe somebody could run the numbers. 🙂

    As for in the offensive zone, it would seem that players on their off wing are put into better shooting positions.

    * As a side note, I noticed a lot of teams in the playoffs would switch up their lefty righty D pairings in the O zone so that both Dmen would be playing on their off side. If their team won the faceoff in the Ozone, and the puck was drawn back to the point, the Dmen could get a shot off quicker playing their off side. They would switch ( not always though) if they didn’t get possession.

  48. JDï™ says:

    bendelson,

    9) Babcock wears more expensive suits than Eakins.

  49. leadfarmer says:

    OF17: That’s why Hall has never won anything, right?

    Exactly.

    Although the way he does turn the puck over would definitely drive a few of the NHL coaches crazy. I can’t imagine what some of them would say when Hall bum rushes three defensemen by himself for the third time in a period

  50. godot10 says:

    JDï™:
    bendelson,

    9) Babcock wears more expensive suits than Eakins.

    I actually do not think that is true. It is impossible to out-“vain” the dementor.

  51. Klima's_Bucket says:

    G Money,

    I’m sure you are aware of this G, but the Soviets really frowned on right shot players.
    There may have only been 1 on their whole 72 Summit Series team.

    Fast forward to the years following in the early 90’s, there were a lot of high profile Russians that played their off wing.

    Sergei Makarov
    Alexander Mogilny
    Pavel Bure
    Sergei Berezin
    Alexei Kovalev

  52. OF17 says:

    Man, it’s going to be an absolute pleasure to watch Larsson on this team. I’ve been watching NJ games periodically throughout the summer, probably at about 5 right now, and I’m currently watching the NJD-LAK game from March. Imagine a RH Davidson with better passing and more aggressive gap control and that’s pretty close to Larsson. He might be the best transition D on our team.

    You start to notice patterns after a while. One of Larsson’s bread and butter moves is to pressure the puck carrier at the line, forcing a non-ideal move and a 50/50 battle elsewhere in the offensive zone. He’s also really good in the corners, with a bit of that McDavid ability to come away with possession when he probably shouldn’t. He’s a smart bugger too. Early in the 1st in this NJD-LAK game, Larsson had possession in his corner with a Kings forchecker coming in hot, and Larsson delayed just long enough that the King was too close to react to the pass before sending a Whitney-esque tape cracker to his teammate below the blueline. You see a lot of those smart little moves, those delays, in his game, which is why he reminds me of Davidson so much.

    Also, from keying in on Lucic this game as well, LT is definitely right about Lucic’s passing.

  53. OF17 says:

    leadfarmer: Exactly.

    Although the way he does turn the puck over would definitely drive a few of the NHL coaches crazy.I can’t imagine what some of them would say when Hall bum rushes three defensemen by himself for the third time in a period

    Yeah, I can see why Hall gets left off these teams. I think that’s also where the lack of playoffs has hurt him, not just in reputation. Team Canada coaches want to see playoff hockey, quick puck movement, quick to close gaps, safe, high-percentage passes and plays. They don’t want soloists. Hall to a certain extent will always be a soloist, but getting some playoff experience under his belt would add that other style of play to his repetoire.

  54. JDï™ says:

    Bohologo: or was being asked to hook down the Russian back checker…

    Fixed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ZPcr_INWA&t=1m24s

    Note: If you open that in a new tab or window, it takes you right to the faceoff.

  55. Stelio Kontos says:

    Hall is a 60 pt player pro rated over he last 2 seasons. We realize this right?

  56. godot10 says:

    Bohologo: This is a bit unfair to Dale Hawerchuk, who was a hell of a player.I seem to recall that Yzerman was competing against 99 and 66 for center slots, whereas Hawerchuk was either playing wing with the aforementioned duo, or was being asked to stifle whoever the Russians were sending over the boards.So, I think they were applying for different jobs.

    Yzerman was great, but let’s not discount Hawerchuk entirely.

    (Note I am nearly as old as LT, but with a less keen memory, so please feel free to correct my knowledge of the historical record here.)

    I wasn’t criticizing Hawerchuk. Arguably I was praising him. I was just pointing out the Yzerman was “snubbed” for a decade for Canada Cup’s and World Cups. And arguably, the guy who kept stealing his spot because Keenan and Sather prefered him was Hawerchuk.

    Hawerchuk spent a lot of time in the 87 Canada Cup centering Messier and Anderson.

  57. godot10 says:

    Stelio Kontos:
    Hall is a 60 pt player pro rated over he last 2 seasons. We realize this right?

    But that should be “dementor”-adjusted.

    Hall was going supernova under Krueger and then Eakins arrived and snuffed that out.

  58. godot10 says:

    Bohologo: I think we are on pretty much the same page; could we carve out a landing zone here by jointly claiming to despise the Jets (old and new) and the Wings?

    Reasonable?

    I sort of viewed the Jets as loveable reliable losers. I hated the Flames. In comparison to the Flames and Canucks, I really didn’t mind the Jets. Probably also had something to do with them being a WHA team.

  59. ~ Hall of Shame ~ says:

    OF17: Yeah, I can see why Hall gets left off these teams. I think that’s also where the lack of playoffs has hurt him, not just in reputation. Team Canada coaches want to see playoff hockey, quick puck movement, quick to close gaps, safe, high-percentage passes and plays. They don’t want soloists. Hall to a certain extent will always be a soloist, but getting some playoff experience under his belt would add that other style of play to his repetoire.

    The easiest way to get invited to lots of World Championships is to be on a team that misses the playoffs.

    It’s also the hardest way to get invited to the Olympics or World Cups.

    Haters can point at the the Ruff things and lovers at the tournament all star thing. But GMs know what they know and like what they like and playoff results and recent playoff results turn their crank.

  60. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Bohologo,

    Which hook, the one right off the face-off or the one at centre?

  61. OF17 says:

    ~ Hall of Shame ~: The easiest way to get invited to lost of World Championships is to be on a team that misses the playoffs.

    It’s also the hardest way to get invited to the Olympics or World Cups.

    Haters can point at the the Ruff things and lovers at the tournament all star thing. But GM’s are know what they know and like what they like and playoff results and recent playoff results turn their crank.

    But I guess my point is that it’s more than that. It’s not just that coaches love players with playoff experience, it’s that they love the style of game that comes with that. Hall has never gotten the chance to develop that, whereas Couture, Marchand, etc. have. Doesn’t make leaving him off a strong organizational decision, but if you’re trying to play a playoff style game, which Babcock assuredly will be, brining players that have proven they can do that has value.

    And yes, I know Hall has two Memorial Cups, a WJC, and a WC to his name, but those are all lesser beasts than the two SCF and 66 playoff games Marchand has and the SCF and 80 playoff games Couture has.

  62. Centre of attention says:

    OF17:
    Man, it’s going to be an absolute pleasure to watch Larsson on this team. I’ve been watching NJ games periodically throughout the summer, probably at about 5 right now, and I’m currently watching the NJD-LAK game from March. Imagine a RH Davidson with better passing and more aggressive gap control and that’s pretty close to Larsson. He might be the best transition D on our team.

    You start to notice patterns after a while. One of Larsson’s bread and butter moves is to pressure the puck carrier at the line, forcing a non-ideal move and a 50/50 battle elsewhere in the offensive zone. He’s also really good in the corners, with a bit of that McDavid ability to come away with possession when he probably shouldn’t. He’s a smart bugger too. Early in the 1st in this NJD-LAK game, Larsson had possession in his corner with a Kings forchecker coming in hot, and Larsson delayed just long enough that the King was too close to react to the pass before sending a Whitney-esque tape cracker to his teammate below the blueline. You see a lot of those smart little moves, those delays, in his game, which is why he reminds me of Davidson so much.

    Also, from keying in on Lucic this game as well, LT is definitely right about Lucic’s passing.

    I’ve watched exactly that play and I know what you mean.

    Very heady player, cool as a cucumber under pressure. I’m very happy he is an Oiler.

  63. McNuge93 says:

    godot10: I sort of viewed the Jets as loveable reliable losers.I hated the Flames.In comparison to the Flames and Canucks, I really didn’t mind the Jets. Probably also had something to do with them being a WHA team.

    And also had something to do with us never having lost a playoff series to them.

  64. PunkInDrublic says:

    OF17:
    Man, it’s going to be an absolute pleasure to watch Larsson on this team. I’ve been watching NJ games periodically throughout the summer, probably at about 5 right now, and I’m currently watching the NJD-LAK game from March. Imagine a RH Davidson with better passing and more aggressive gap control and that’s pretty close to Larsson. He might be the best transition D on our team.

    You start to notice patterns after a while. One of Larsson’s bread and butter moves is to pressure the puck carrier at the line, forcing a non-ideal move and a 50/50 battle elsewhere in the offensive zone. He’s also really good in the corners, with a bit of that McDavid ability to come away with possession when he probably shouldn’t. He’s a smart bugger too. Early in the 1st in this NJD-LAK game, Larsson had possession in his corner with a Kings forchecker coming in hot, and Larsson delayed just long enough that the King was too close to react to the pass before sending a Whitney-esque tape cracker to his teammate below the blueline. You see a lot of those smart little moves, those delays, in his game, which is why he reminds me of Davidson so much.

    Also, from keying in on Lucic this game as well, LT is definitely right about Lucic’s passing.

    It may not mean much coming from me, but thanks for this. Your post was refreshing to read given all the negativity lately. I don’t love the trade, but I am optimistic nonetheless; he’s a damn good defenceman and has huge upside. I’m really looking forward to seeing him in action for myself. Cheers.

  65. ~ Hall of Shame ~ says:

    OF17: But I guess my point is that it’s more than that. It’s not just that coaches love players with playoff experience, it’s that they love the style of game that comes with that.

    Showing good in the playoffs and adjusting to playoff style are two side of the same coin. You need the coin.

  66. OF17 says:

    Centre of attention: I’ve watched exactly that play and I know what you mean.

    Very heady player, cool as a cucumber under pressure. I’m very happy he is an Oiler.

    He really is a wonderful player to watch. The more I see of him the more I appreciate him. Definitely cut from the Davidson tree of smart and effective hockey.

    He also has a lot more grit to his game than you’d expect. He almost never bulldozes people, but you can tell he’s strong (can compete with guys like Lucic in the corners), and he’s always throwing little hits and jabs. He fits the Chiarelli mold of team toughness for sure. Oilers fans are going to love him.

  67. ~ Hall of Shame ~ says:

    The only thing I regret about the World Cup of Hockey is that Chia’s Team NA probably won’t get a chance to skate over Burke’s team USA. Different pools.

    But I’d settle for seeing Team NA in the playoff round and Burke’s team relegated to trashing their locker or washrooms or whatever is currently in vogue.

  68. OF17 says:

    PunkInDrublic: It may not mean much coming from me, but thanks for this.Your post was refreshing to read given all the negativity lately.I don’t love the trade, but I am optimistic nonetheless; he’s a damn good defenceman and has huge upside.I’m really looking forward to seeing him in action for myself. Cheers.

    You’re welcome! It means a lot coming from anyone. I was absolutely distraught the night of the trade, but after getting to know Larsson a little more, I feel significantly better about it. Wonderful player to watch.

    His passing ability is the most surprising part so far. That and how smart he is. Some of his breakouts really do look like Whitney’s, and when there’s a chance to pass almost all are well placed and effective. I have no numbers to back this up, but IMO he’s a better transition D than Sekera and up there with Klefbom when it comes to outlet passes. That’s going to be a breath of fresh air on this team.

    ~ Hall of Shame ~: Showing good in the playoffs and adjusting to playoff style are two side of the same coin. You need the coin.

    Oh yeah. I have no doubt that when/if Hall gets a chunk of playoff experience, he’ll adjust better than most, he just hasn’t had that chance yet and Team Canada wants the finished product rather than the developing one. Sucks for Hall.

  69. omega4 says:

    G Money: Does anyone here know if someone has looked at winger handedness?

    Have you checked out the work of
    SCIENCE ASSHOLE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE SHIT?
    He’s the only other guy that might be looking at this that I know.

  70. Bruce McCurdy says:

    godot10: But that should be “dementor”-adjusted.

    Hall was going supernova under Krueger and then Eakins arrived and snuffed that out.

    You have plenty of anti-Eakins ammunition without having to stray from the facts. One of which is that Hall had his career-high 80-point season during Eakins’ one full campaign in 2013-14. Would have made the All-Star team if the PHWA could tell their left from their right.

  71. TheOtherJohn says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Oh the never ending Hall debate.Lovely.

    The anti-Hall crowd over states the “negative locker room guy” case.

    The pro-Hall crowd categorically ignores the fact that his overall production over the past 2 years is a 60 point pace (51 points in 67 games).They blindly ignore his downtrend by favoring a 5 year span.Not necessarily wrong to consider the longer term, but completely ignoring a 2 year term is also pointing towards bias.

    Hall is a good player.

    Lots of good players don’t make team Canada every year.

    Claude Giroux has never played in the Olympics, and probably never will.You could build a Team Canada B team, send them to the Olympics, and give them a 15% chance of winning the gold with an expectation that they get a silver or bronze.

    The Team Canada B team would end up 5th or 6th. The drop off at goal and D would be serious. Its why we usually do not do well at the WHC most years

  72. godot10 says:

    Bruce McCurdy: You have plenty of anti-Eakins ammunition without having to stray from the facts. One of which is that Hall had his career-high 80-point season during Eakins’ one full campaign in 2013-14. Would have made the All-Star team if the PHWA could tell their left from their right.

    Not by advanced statistics….

    Hall had his worst Corsi ever that season, but he was lucky, gaining points on over 100% of the goals scored while he was on the ice.

    If you recall, MacT and Eakins had Hall dumping the puck in, instead of carrying it in. MacT went on Stauffer’s show, and said Hall was playing better, but Stauffer brought up the epic Dellow article deconstructing how Hall’s play was actually worse than it had ever been.

    Hall’s play went backwards under Eakins. Not one single good thing can be said of the dementor era. It was hell on earth. All goodness was sucked out of the OIlers.

    And the ultimate price was paid this summer with the Hall trade.

  73. G Money says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    He also had a blazing start to his second season under Eakins, starting at something like 1 ppg over the first dozen games.

    Then he injured his knee, missed a couple of weeks, came back too early (by later admission – as if we should assume anything else with the Oilers), and was a shadow of himself the rest of the season, running at about 0.5 ppg, before reinjuring his knee late in the season.

  74. Ducey says:

    godot10: Not by advanced statistics….

    Hall had his worst Corsi ever that season, but he was lucky, gaining points on over 100% of the goals scored while he was on the ice.

    If you recall, MacT and Eakins had Hall dumping the puck in, instead of carrying it in.MacT went on Stauffer’s show, and said Hall was playing better, but Stauffer brought up the epic Dellow article deconstructing how Hall’s play was actually worse than it had ever been.

    Hall’s play went backwards under Eakins.Not one single good thing can be said of the dementor era.It was hell on earth.All goodness was sucked out of the OIlers.

    And the ultimate price was paid this summer with the Hall trade.

    Godot, you continue to prove that the dementor created the demented.

  75. Centre of attention says:

    godot10: Not by advanced statistics….

    Hall had his worst Corsi ever that season, but he was lucky, gaining points on over 100% of the goals scored while he was on the ice.

    If you recall, MacT and Eakins had Hall dumping the puck in, instead of carrying it in.MacT went on Stauffer’s show, and said Hall was playing better, but Stauffer brought up the epic Dellow article deconstructing how Hall’s play was actually worse than it had ever been.

    Hall’s play went backwards under Eakins.Not one single good thing can be said of the dementor era.It was hell on earth.All goodness was sucked out of the OIlers.

    And the ultimate price was paid this summer with the Hall trade.

    *raises scotch glass, starts slow clap*

  76. G Money says:

    I tweeted out my question on winger handedness, and it was picked up and retweeted by ex-Canadiens analyst Matt Pfeffer:

    Think there's a lot of potential in this. Imo eventually all wingers will be inverted https://t.co/gCXOSSZSeE— Matt Pfeffer (@MattPfefferHky) 24 August 2016

    Seems to have sparked quite a discussion across the Twit world, I’m seeing references back to my original tweet because people I follow are responding to a long conversation thread on the topic that I never saw the middle of!

    So far I’ve only seen one reference to work done on forward handedness – Arik Parnass looked at the issue for the powerplay, and concluded that playing wingers on the off hand on the PP increases scoring (e.g. by giving better shot angles and also making one timers easier) and the price that you normally pay (defensive coverage) isn’t really relevant with a man advantage.

    Given the interest and the apparent lack of work at 5v5, I think I’ll take a quick look at the issue and see what I find.

  77. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Jay Bouwmeester to replace Keith at the World Cup.

    Now we know that hockey Canada is truly full of dolts.

    Have they not looked at Brandon Davidson’s advanced stats??

    First Hall was snubbed, now Davidson.

  78. G Money says:

    Klima’s_Bucket,

    Interesting. I was a wee lad during the Summit Series, and didn’t truly start following hockey avidly until the Oilers joined the NHL*, so I was not aware of this, thanks.

    *I’ve mentioned a few times that one of my classmates was Jill Pocklington-Hughes, so she broke the news that her stepdad was getting this incredibly talented kid out of Indianapolis for the Oilers, causing much excitement. Well, some. Well, not much. No one really knew what that Gretzky kid was about anyway.

  79. OF17 says:

    TheOtherJohn: The Team Canada B team would end up 5th or 6th. The drop off at goal and D would be serious. Its why we usually do not do well at the WHC most years

    Assuming no injuries, Canada B’s defense would still have Subban, Letang, Bouwmeester, Giordano, Brodie, and a host of others for the 6 and 7 spots. I don’t see a real drop off in quality there. There’s a drop off from Price-Holtby-Crawford to Elliott-Fleury-Dubnyk, but it’s not a chasm. Canada B would be the favorites for silver IMO.

  80. JDï™ says:

    OF17: Bouwmeester

    He was just named as replacement for Keith, who is still recovering from a knee injury.

    And I don’t know about silver, but pegging the Canada B team 5th or 6th is way off base.

  81. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Let’s blame Dallas Eakins for the Hall trade.

    Alrighty then.

  82. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Maybe we should blame Peter Pocklington as well.

  83. G Money says:

    I can understand passing on Letang or Subban to replace Keith because of that handedness thing.

    But Bouwmeester over e.g. Giordano?

    … man …

    But wait! It must be a smart move, because it was made by Team Canada management!

  84. TheOtherJohn says:

    JDï™,

    Name the 4th, 5th and 6th goalie from Canada ad then the 7-14 D men excepting the kids U24

    Not gonna beat Canada 1, Sweden, USA or U24 team with that back end

  85. JDï™ says:

    G Money: because it was made by Team Canada management!

    Hold on a second, Meester – that gives them a team pairing with Pietro, and Babcock seems to favor players he knows (Olympics) in these tournaments.

    But yeah, Gio is the obvious choice.

  86. JDï™ says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    Somebody has already stated those players, and have you looked at USA’s defenders? Bishop better be real good.

    Then you have Murray or the Jets goalie trying to recapture the past year’s success in a short tournament early in the season. I’ll take Elliot spits over those two any day.

  87. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Let’s blame Dallas Eakins for the Hall trade.

    Bruce McCurdy: Maybe we should blame Peter Pocklington as well.

    While we’re on the topic, just what have the Romans ever done for us???

  88. Chachi says:

    OF17:
    Man, it’s going to be an absolute pleasure to watch Larsson on this team. I’ve been watching NJ games periodically throughout the summer, probably at about 5 right now, and I’m currently watching the NJD-LAK game from March. Imagine a RH Davidson with better passing and more aggressive gap control and that’s pretty close to Larsson. He might be the best transition D on our team.

    You start to notice patterns after a while. One of Larsson’s bread and butter moves is to pressure the puck carrier at the line, forcing a non-ideal move and a 50/50 battle elsewhere in the offensive zone. He’s also really good in the corners, with a bit of that McDavid ability to come away with possession when he probably shouldn’t. He’s a smart bugger too. Early in the 1st in this NJD-LAK game, Larsson had possession in his corner with a Kings forchecker coming in hot, and Larsson delayed just long enough that the King was too close to react to the pass before sending a Whitney-esque tape cracker to his teammate below the blueline. You see a lot of those smart little moves, those delays, in his game, which is why he reminds me of Davidson so much.

    Thanks for this. This matches what I have seen of Larsson the few times I have watched him play, but seems to be contradicted by some of what has been written about his play by others. The example that stands out the most is this post:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-guest-analyst-cory-west

    on the Cult of Hockey from guest analyst “Cory West” who watched 13 Devils games and had a lot of negative things to say about Larsson’s puck moving skills and skating such as this:

    “While under pressure in the defensive zone things get worse for Larsson. A major-junior coach once told me to quit handling the puck like a grenade, this sentence applies well to Larsson. Under pressure the best you can hope is he just chips the puck to open ice, which he does and usually doesn’t end up in a giveaway either but that puck support will not be there in Edmonton.”

    “Speed is a real threat to Larsson. Alex Killorn absolutely killed Larsson with agility and speed time and time again in a game against Tampa Bay. As a fan, if you didn’t like seeing Ladislav Smid lose his man around the net and look like a tripod, then don’t go searching for the footage of this game.”

    Given his take on Larsson was so different from mine I was naturally curious about “Cory West”. “Cory West” is described in the article like this: “Cory West had a couple cups of coffee in the WHL. He’s a former USA hockey development coach and junior scout.” I haven’t been able to find any mention online of a “Cory West” playing in the WHL or coaching for USA hockey or scouting anywhere so I assume “Cory West” is a pseudonym. He might be an interesting guest to get on the Lowetide someday to maybe expand on his observations.

  89. Chachi says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    While we’re on the topic, just what have the Romans ever done for us???

    Toast.

  90. LadiesloveSmid says:

    godot10: But that should be “dementor”-adjusted.

    Hall was going supernova under Krueger and then Eakins arrived and snuffed that out.

    did Hall not score 80P under Eakins and then lose a season to injury?

  91. raventalon40 says:

    Nurse for Trouba or Nurse+ for Trouba? Do you do it?

    To save the couple years of development I would not blink at it.

  92. Bruce McCurdy says:

    LadiesloveSmid: did Hall not score 80P under Eakins and then lose a season to injury?

    Don’t even go there, Hall apparently sucked during his 80-point season. It was all luck. Which leaves last year’s 65 and a few 50-ish point seasons as the height of his powers.

    Yeah, I’m confused too.

  93. Justthestatsman says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    While we’re on the topic, just what have the Romans ever done for us???

    The Aquaduct? Roads? Education?

  94. Lowetide says:

    Justthestatsman: Education?

    You spelled prison wrong!

  95. classict says:

    G Money,

    Pietrangelo was ~67 GF% without Bouwmeester last year in 400+ minutes. Probably lower qual comp but still thats nuts..they were 52GF% together. Bouwmeester 50GF% apart

  96. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    JDï™,

    Name the 4th, 5th and 6th goalie from Canada

    Luongo
    Fleury
    Elliot

    That’s good enough to win those games. Certainly not to be a favorite, but in a tournament that’s good enough to beat anyone any given night.

    TheOtherJohn:
    JDï™,

    Name the 7-14 D men excepting the kids U24

    Keith, Subban, Letang, Brodie, Giordanno, Tanev, Hamonic, Barrie,

    That’s off the top of my head.

    Again it’s not as good as what team 1A is putting out there, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t win a game in a tournament.

  97. bendelson says:

    My wife recently returned from a tour of Eastern Europe and in her travels, picked up an Oilers version of the classic Matryoshka doll. She handed it to me with the caveat “there’s a problem”. Yes, that’s right – Taylor Hall is the largest doll. She let the vender know that he had been traded, outraging the poor fellow. “Somebody needs to tell me these things!” Anyways, the player selection is a little strange. Hall, Eberle, Pouliot (?), Drai, and little McDavid in the middle.
    Where’s the love for the Nuge?

  98. G Money says:

    Here’s a super quick look at the whole wingers thingers:

    In 2015-2016 regular season:

    Pos/Shot #Players AvgGamesPerPlayer AvgEVPtsPerGame

    LW/LS 155 47 games/player 0.33 pts/game
    RW/RS 113 48 games/player 0.33 pts/game
    LW/RS 19 44 games/player 0.37 pts/game
    RW/LS 46 53 games/player 0.39 pts/game

    It seems as though just looking at offensive effectiveness, there may be valid reasons for playing wingers on their off hand.

    There is also very much a European effect, as was mentioned earlier. For example:

    LW/LS – N Amer 76.7% Rus 2.6% Eur 20.7%
    RW/RS – N Amer 83.3% Rus 1.8% Eur 14.9%

    vs

    LW/RS N Amer 63.2% Rus 15.8% Eur 21%
    RW/LS N Amer 37.0% Rus 13.0% Eur 50%

    Wonder if that’s a European thing or a selection thing or both?

  99. LMHF#1 says:

    I know it was already mentioned – but there’s our should-have-been GM with another solid move in grabbing Hudler for only 2 mil.

    MacTavish’s hiring cost the Oilers not only in terms of his detrimental moves but the fact that they never even seemed to consider a guy like Nill.

  100. G Money says:

    classict,

    Yikes.

    I’ve seen a fair amount of speculation that the familiarity of the Piet/Bouw combination is why he was picked to go, but your numbers indicate that is a ridiculous basis for choice.

    Man.

  101. Ducey says:

    raventalon40:
    Nurse for Trouba or Nurse+ for Trouba? Do you do it?

    To save the couple years of development I would not blink at it.

    The problem with Trouba is that then you need to find a deal with him. WPG apparently can’t.

    Plus he is another guy you need to protect in the expansion draft.

    If you want him badly then offer sheet him, but again if you get him you need to expose another player to Vegas.

  102. Cameron says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    Jay Bouwmeester to replace Keith at the World Cup.

    Now we know that hockey Canada is truly full of dolts.

    Have they not looked at Brandon Davidson’s advanced stats??

    First Hall was snubbed, now Davidson.

    This is adorable

  103. Bank Shot says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Don’t even go there, Hall apparently sucked during his 80-point season. It was all luck. Which leaves last year’s 65 and a few 50-ish point seasons as the height of his powers.

    Yeah, I’m confused too.

    In all fairness, Hall’s IPP during his 80 point campaign and his 50 in 45 lockout seasons were like 98 and 94% respectively.

    Those look like major outliers, and had Hall been a player that the Oilers were rumored to acquire, those stats would have been viewed with a far more critical eye.

    I hate the trade, but lets all hope Hall settles out as a 60 point forward from here on out for the sake of our sanity.

  104. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Cameron: This is adorable

    pretty blatant joke

    big population of flames fans took Hall’s snub as a sign of his calibre, man JBo over Gio/Brodie. Woo ee!

  105. Bank Shot says:

    Cameron: This is adorable

    Flames fan misses an obvious joke.

    How surprising…

  106. Cameron says:

    Bank Shot: Flames fan misses an obvious joke.

    How surprising…

    Oh, I’m definitely laughing

  107. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Bank Shot,

    I hope Hall scores 100P and a double hattrick against EDM at rogers place so they don’t trade a player of his calibre again

  108. Cameron says:

    LadiesloveSmid: pretty blatant joke

    big population of flames fans took Hall’s snub as a sign of his calibre, man JBo over Gio/Brodie. Woo ee!

    There was an equally large group of Flames fans (including me) who openly wondered if we could peel Hall from NJ. Of all the Oilers we’ve faced the last few years, Hall was, by far, the scariest.

  109. Caramel Batman says:

    The other part of the never ending Hall debate is that apparently Chiarelli chose Nurse and Draisatl over Subban and Hall. That really burns. If they trade for Subban and keep Hall they are a contending team. It costs them some future talent but at least they have a good team. Now they’ve cost them some of the future as well (Lucic’s contract) and they still don’t have a good team.

    So not only does Larsson have to actually be a clear top pairing D (I’m skeptical) but Nurse and Draisatl have to turn out (also skeptical).

    Has their been a consensus on what it would have taken to get Subban. I’ve heard talk of the #4, Nurse, and Draisatl. That seems extreme but I would have done it if they took Fayne as well. Then you sign Demers and you have an actual chance.

    How good is this team:

    Pouliot–McDavid–Yakupov
    Hall–RNH–Eberle
    Maroon–FA–Kassian
    Hendricks–Letestu–Pakarinen

    Klefbom–Subban
    Sekera–Demers
    Davidson–Gryba

    Answer: Pretty freaking good.

    The general manager of Montreal lost his mind and instead of taking advantage of it, we got this.

  110. Bruce McCurdy says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Bank Shot,

    I hope Hall scores 100P and a double hattrick against EDM at rogers place so they don’t trade a player of his calibre again

    If he was a 100-point calibre player, don’t you think we’d know that by now?

  111. Bank Shot says:

    Cameron: Oh, I’m definitely laughing

    We all know you missed the joke. It’s okay. You may get the next one. 🙂

  112. Lowetide says:

    I think some of us are trolling at this point. Please respect one another or there will be a science test tomorrow morning at 7.

  113. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide:
    I think some of us are trolling at this point. Please respect one another or there will be a science test tomorrow morning at 7.

    True or False?

  114. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Lowetide,

    Science Test? I thought this was a Mathy blog.

  115. Lowetide says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    Lowetide,

    Science Test? I thought this was a Mathy blog.

    Branching out.

  116. OF17 says:

    Chachi: Thanks for this. This matches what I have seen of Larsson the few times I have watched him play, but seems to be contradicted by some of what has been written about his play by others. The example that stands out the most is this post:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-guest-analyst-cory-west

    on the Cult of Hockey from guest analyst “Cory West” who watched 13 Devils games and had a lot of negative things to say about Larsson’s puck moving skills and skating such as this:

    “While under pressure in the defensive zone things get worse for Larsson. A major-junior coach once told me to quit handling the puck like a grenade, this sentence applies well to Larsson. Under pressure the best you can hope is he just chips the puck to open ice, which he does and usually doesn’t end up in a giveaway either but that puck support will not be there in Edmonton.”

    “Speed is a real threat to Larsson. Alex Killorn absolutely killed Larsson with agility and speed time and time again in a game against Tampa Bay. As a fan, if you didn’t like seeing Ladislav Smid lose his man around the net and look like a tripod, then don’t go searching for the footage of this game.”

    Given his take on Larsson was so different from mine I was naturally curious about “Cory West”. “Cory West” is described in the article like this: “Cory West had a couple cups of coffee in the WHL. He’s a former USA hockey development coach and junior scout.” I haven’t been able to find any mention online of a “Cory West” playing in the WHL or coaching for USA hockey or scouting anywhere so I assume “Cory West” is a pseudonym. He might be an interesting guest to get on the Lowetide someday to maybe expand on his observations.

    Yeah, that West take doesn’t match what I’ve seen at all. Larsson handles pressure in the defensive zone really well, either by sending forward an outlet pass or by giving his D partner the puck in an okay position. One of the things that impresses me about him is his ability to make the best out of a situation. In the D and neutral zones, he’s very good at reading the situation, choosing the best option, and executing. Simple, straightforward, effective. Phrases like, “Under pressure the best you can hope is he just chips the puck to open ice,” are so far removed from my experience of the player I honestly wonder if West got the jersey numbers wrong.

    You can tell Larsson doesn’t have much confidence in the offensive zone though. He loses a lot of that patience and puck distribution and resorts to sending the puck back in deep a lot. I wonder if part of that is the New Jersey system, but he looks like a different player in the O zone than he does in the other two. He’s kind of the anti Justin Schultz in a lot of ways. I’m hopeful that with some coaching and development Larsson can bring his patience, smarts, and passing to the offensive zone as well. You can see from the other parts of his game that he definitely has the tools to become an offensive contributor in the mold of a Sekera. Haven’t seen enough examples of his shot to tell how good it is. Even without the O zone play though, his transition game will definitely help the team spend more time on offense and less time chasing the puck in the D zone.

    I should mention again that I’m far from an expert on Larsson, just that I’ve seen enough of him to get a decent view of him as a player.

  117. OF17 says:

    JDï™,

    Yeah, I saw the Bouweester replacement, which is why I started with the assumption everyone was healthy. Bouwmeester is a very good player, but it puzzles me that he got chosen over Giordano and Brodie. Playoff experience being the difference again?

    Ironic that Bouwmeester is now in the “playoff experience” grouping of players.

  118. frjohnk says:

    Caramel Batman: The other part of the never ending Hall debate is that apparently Chiarelli chose Nurse and Draisatl over Subban and Hall

    In the end, it becomes Nurse, Draisaitl, JP and Larsson over Hall and Subban.

    Chia chose “potential” over the latter two.
    Hall and Subban are very good hockey players.
    There is a very good chance they are the two best players out of that group when we look back 10 years from now.

    But the potential ceiling of those 4 could trump Hall and Subban.

    -Nurse “could” become a top 4 shutdown Dman, smaller chance he ‘could” become top pairing.
    -Draissaitl ‘could” become a number 1 center.
    -JP “could” become a franchise winger, could also just be a decent complimentary winger
    -Larsson “could” become a dominant top pairing Dman,

    4 “coulds’ for 2 sure things.

    Time will tell what the best choice would have been.

    In another thought

    RNH, EBERLE and Sekera were dynamite in OT last year.

    Imagine how exciting a Hall, McDavid and Subban trio would be.

  119. frjohnk says:

    OF17:
    JDï™,

    Yeah, I saw the Bouweester replacement, which is why I started with the assumption everyone was healthy. Bouwmeester is a very good player, but it puzzles me that he got chosen over Giordano and Brodie. Playoff experience being the difference again?

    Ironic that Bouwmeester is now in the “playoff experience” grouping of players.

    Its a shame that Brodie was not picked. I believe he is a top 3 LHD in the league. I have Josi and Keith above him.

  120. Oilspill says:

    When life is boring..people find strange things to do.

    omega4: Have you checked out the work of
    SCIENCE ASSHOLE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE SHIT?
    He’s the only other guy that might be looking at this that I know.

  121. OF17 says:

    frjohnk: Its a shame that Brodie was not picked.I believe he is a top 3 LHD in the league. I have Josi and Keith above him.

    I put Vlasic above him too, but Brodie is certainly among the best LHD in the league.

  122. frjohnk says:

    OF17: I put Vlasic above him too, but Brodie is certainly among the best LHD in the league.

    Oops, forgot Vlasic. And Hedman

    Top 3 Canadian? 🙂

  123. OF17 says:

    frjohnk: In the end, it becomes Nurse, Draisaitl, JP and Larsson over Hall and Subban.

    Chia chose “potential” over the latter two.
    Hall and Subban are very good hockey players.
    There is a very good chance they are the two best players out of that group when we look back 10 years from now.

    But the potential ceiling of those 4 could trump Hall and Subban.

    -Nurse “could” become a top 4 shutdown Dman, smaller chance he ‘could” become top pairing.
    -Draissaitl ‘could” become a number 1 center.
    -JP “could” become a franchise winger, could also just be a decent complimentary winger
    -Larsson “could” become a dominant top pairing Dman,

    4 “coulds’ for 2 sure things.

    Time will tell what the best choice would have been.

    In another thought

    RNH, EBERLE and Sekera were dynamite in OT last year.

    Imagine how exciting a Hall, McDavid and Subban trio would be.

    It’s not just potential, it’s also cap hit. Hall + Subban would cost $15 million per year. Since we’re comparing 2 players to 4, let’s add in two ~league minimum players to that, say Pakarinen and Oesterle. That brings us to $16.5 million. Larsson we already have for $4.1 million, so that’s $12.4 million to re-sign Draisaitl, Nurse, and Puljujarvi. I bet we could get Draisaitl and Nurse for about $8.5-9 million combined on long-term deals, and who knows what Puljujarvi will earn.

    To earn those contracts though, those players will have to show enough to get them, a la Klefbom. So is a dominant LW, a dominant D, a replacement F, and a replacement D better than a 2D, a 1/2C, a 1/2RW, and a 3/4D? Keep in mind those replacement players would probably have to play above their heads due to cost.

    If cost were no issue, Hall + Subban would be the obvious choice, since you’d have actual NHLers behind them rather than replacement level guys. Taking cost into account though, I can see why Chiarelli chose as he did. Not sure which I would’ve gone for myself.

  124. OF17 says:

    frjohnk: Oops, forgot Vlasic. And Hedman

    Top 3 Canadian?

    Haha how could we forget Hedman? And OEL? Maybe the two best LHD in the league.

    Top 3 Canadian though I’ll definitely buy.

  125. Chachi says:

    Lowetide:
    I think some of us are trolling at this point. Please respect one another or there will be a science test tomorrow morning at 7.

    Dear Mr. Lowetide,

    Chachi will not be at school tomorrow because his brother got kidnapped by Aliens,

    Signed,

    Chachi’s Mother.

  126. TheOtherJohn says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: Luongo
    Fleury
    Elliot

    That’s good enough to win those games.Certainly not to be a favorite, but in a tournament that’s good enough to beat anyone any given night.

    Keith, Subban, Letang, Brodie, Giordanno, Tanev, Hamonic, Barrie,

    That’s off the top of my head.

    Again it’s not as good as what team 1A is putting out there, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t win a game in a tournament.

    Suter,
    BuFF,
    Erik Johnson,
    John Carlson,
    Ryan McDonagh

    Is a pretty good core of a D and would match D of Canada 2.

    Corey Schneider is a better goalie than anyone on Canada 2 and is in the prime of his career

    Eagerly await your comparison of Canada 2 D with Sweden. Am laughing already

  127. frjohnk says:

    OF17: Top 3 Canadian though I’ll definitely buy

    OK, I’ll just stick to this one. 🙂

  128. Centre of attention says:

    I remember Elliotte Friedman saying the ask was for Klefbom not Nurse. I believe it was the 30 thoughts right before free agency. Title was “why couldnt Montreal and Edmonton make a deal”

    If the ask was drai nurse and the pick I do that deal ALL day. Klefbom makes me think twice, especially with Subbans monster contract.

  129. godot10 says:

    OF17:
    JDï™,

    Ironic that Bouwmeester is now in the “playoff experience” grouping of players.

    Bouwmeester, like Thornton, are the only two veterans of the last World Cup.

    Bouwmeester knows Babcock’s system inside and out from the Olympics. Knows exactly what is expected of the D, something none of the other candidates do. With no selection camp, incumbents have the advantage if the coach is also an incumbent. Babcock wants to play the same button-down mistake free hockey the team played in Sochi. Bouwmeester does NOT have to be brought up to speed.

    And the GM of the team is Doug Armstrong.

  130. Pouzar says:

    G Money:
    I can understand passing on Letang or Subban to replace Keith because of that handedness thing.

    But Bouwmeester over e.g. Giordano?

    … man …

    But wait!It must be a smart move, because it was made by Team Canada management!

    Dave Poulin was just on TSN1290 radio (F^ck the Jets btw) saying “GMs LOVE SAFE” and that’s why they chose him over the others. It’s a disease I tellz ya.

  131. classict says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    So Canada A, Sweden are top two.

    Then Canada B looks like it matches up nicely with USA, NA, and the rest. Hardly a guaranteed 5th-6th…

    And actually I’d take Canada B’s defence over USA’s any day

  132. Caramel Batman says:

    frjohnk,

    I agree with your analysis of what the choices were. The difference between me and Chiarelli is that I think Hall and Subban are as near as locks can be to the best two players of the grouping.

    Pjuljarvi’s numbers are way behind Barkov. We should temper our expectations.
    Draisatl is nice, but has no pedigree to suggest superstar status
    Same with Larsson. Both are near certain good players, but also near certain to not be stars.
    Nurse lacks both the pedigree to be a star and the certainty. But he can skate and is tough.

    So you have two surefire dominant players in exchange for four guys, none of whom are likely to be stars.

    If everyone meets their expectations this is like trading two first overall picks for four top ten picks. That’s bad business.

    So sure their salaries are higher, but what are you going to buy with the money saved to make up the difference?

  133. Pouzar says:

    OF17: Yeah, that West take doesn’t match what I’ve seen at all. Larsson handles pressure in the defensive zone really well, either by sending forward an outlet pass or by giving his D partner the puck in an okay position. One of the things that impresses me about him is his ability to make the best out of a situation. In the D and neutral zones, he’s very good at reading the situation, choosing the best option, and executing. Simple, straightforward, effective. Phrases like, “Under pressure the best you can hope is he just chips the puck to open ice,” are so far removed from my experience of the player I honestly wonder if West got the jersey numbers wrong.

    You can tell Larsson doesn’t have much confidence in the offensive zone though. He loses a lot of that patience and puck distribution and resorts to sending the puck back in deep a lot. I wonder if part of that is the New Jersey system, but he looks like a different player in the O zone than he does in the other two. He’s kind of the anti Justin Schultz in a lot of ways. I’m hopeful that with some coaching and development Larsson can bring his patience, smarts, and passing to the offensive zone as well. You can see from the other parts of his game that he definitely has the tools to become an offensive contributor in the mold of a Sekera. Haven’t seen enough examples of his shot to tell how good it is. Even without the O zone play though, his transition game will definitely help the team spend more time on offense and less time chasing the puck in the D zone.

    I should mention again that I’m far from an expert on Larsson, just that I’ve seen enough of him to get a decent view of him as a player.

    What games did you watch? I wonder if Gamecenter still has em?

  134. OF17 says:

    Pouzar: What games did you watch? I wonder if Gamecenter still has em?

    I know I’ve watched a Kings game, a Rangers game, and an Oilers game, and I can’t remember the other two. I usually pick them based on which ones Larsson got a lot of TOI. Gamecenter has them all though.

  135. Pouzar says:

    OF17: I know I’ve watched a Kings game, a Rangers game, and an Oilers game, and I can’t remember the other two. I usually pick them based on which ones Larsson got a lot of TOI. Gamecenter has them all though.

    Dates? 🙂

  136. OF17 says:

    Pouzar: Dates?

    Haha the Kings game was from March 12, the Rangers game was from February 8 (28:33 of ice time for Larsson that game), and looking back, the other two were a Blue Jackets game on March 20 and a Calgary game on January 19th. Looked for a combination of TOI and offensive production if possible.

  137. Pouzar says:

    OF17,

    Thx mang!

  138. OF17 says:

    Pouzar,

    No problem! Enjoy. Hope your impression of Larsson is as positive as mine was. Let us know how it goes.

  139. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    TheOtherJohn: Suter,
    BuFF,
    Erik Johnson,
    John Carlson,
    Ryan McDonagh

    Is a pretty good core of a D and would match Dof Canada 2.

    Corey Schneider is a better goalie than anyone onCanada 2 and is in the prime of his career

    Eagerly await your comparison of Canada 2 D with Sweden. Am laughing already

    Well that was a far grumpier response than I was expecting. Might I suggest you try eating a Snickers?

    Seriously though I’d still take Canada B over USA given that comparison. I get that Schneider is better than the goalies listed, but the point is that the goalies I listed are certainly in the elite range and good enough to win the hockey game without it being a total fluke. The first 2D I listed are Norris Trophy winners, the next 3 probably could be to, and Tanev might be the most under rated player in the NHL.

    We’re talking about a tournament format here, you just have to be good enough to put yourself in a position to win a handful of games.

    I would bet on Sweden or Canada A to beat Canada B straight up. But if you gave me 2 or 3 to 1 odds on Canada B…. I’d take Canada B.

    I’d say Canada B trumps USA (mostly because they tend to favour grinders over actual skill players). But I wouldn’t completely dismiss your argument about USA being superior on the back of Schneider. It’s a fair point.

  140. Pouzar says:

    OF17:
    Pouzar,

    No problem! Enjoy. Hope your impression of Larsson is as positive as mine was. Let us know how it goes.

    Will do!

  141. Fog of Warts says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    You have plenty of anti-Eakins ammunition without having to stray from the facts.

    Truer words were never spoken.

    ———

    Staples: Hearts ruled heads in train-wreck of a debate on 16-year-old voters

    If we give 16-year-olds the vote, the overall level of maturity and political competence of the electorate will drop.

    Truer words … hmmm … not so fast.

    See, the thing is, if you vote at sixteen—when you’re clearly not ready yet for the big leagues—almost certainly you’re ruined for life.

    Not a chance it wakes a young person up—at their most formative age—to the idea that becoming an adult is serious business, should you choose to accept that mission.

    Historically, societies starting giving adult responsibility to teenishagers by the age of twelve. Adulthood came a lot earlier in those societies.

    And we’re not just talking 10,000 BCE.

    Growing up, I had a friend a year older than me on the other side of the highway, north of Calgary.

    When he was thirteen, he was halfway running the farm: raising his own cow, doing all the morning chores, driving most of the heavy equipment, and ogling fiberglass Corvettes piloted by hirsute, entrepreneurial Lancelots who darted off the #2 highway—it wasn’t restricted access yet—and up the dusty cart-path whose pothole interstitials served as the farm’s main approach, hooking after 30 meters—this is after Trudeau but before newly minted highway signs began taking daily buckshot—around a man-made poplar tree-break in quest for tax-free piston oats (perhaps some of these were driving the 1975 Corvette Base, whose pygmy engines—making all of 165 hp—earned it the distinction of “worst Corvette of all time”, but this is before Wikipedia, so our ogles went unabated).

    That one couldn’t see the farm house from the road was surely a prime desiderata; either that, or a similar-looking farm not too far down the road had become widely known as the best purple-gas whorehouse in all of alt-Texas. Unfortunately, we never hung our hot little eyes (I was once there for an entire summer) on any delectable arm candy; man does not rumble up dusty farm roads in search of tax-free gas with a hot babe under fiberglass (I’m guessing such a man fills up with 97 octane at the local Taj Mahal gas bar and complementary car wash, the one equipped with the especially low bar on the overhead rag-roller).

    Yes, for all of one year’s age his life was that much further into manhood than my own, which largely consisted of practicing long-hand square roots until I could do them half mentally, with the least amount of pencil pushing, displaying an economy of outward motion that would have got me whipped ten minutes into farm chores on the first and every day.

    ———

    Youth is a complicated spectrum, but by no means do we presently have too much youth in our voting demographics.

    And, no, it’s not possible for a sixteen year-old to tip an election result, not without a plethora of adults and/or suitably aged children having already built tall haystacks of equally balanced yeas and nays.

    ———

    This reminds me, my personal nicknames for the candidates of Presidential Election 2016 are ‘candidate 665’ and ‘candidate 666’ (as ranked out of two).

    Having practised my long-hand arithmetic so intensively at the perfect formative age, I can actually discern the difference between these two ewers of toothpaste marbles [*][**] and, were I American, would show up to vote accordingly.

    ———

    [*] While I was checking this phrase out, I came across a 2013 poem by blursofjoy, who should perhaps be burrsofjoy.

    Toothpaste Marbles

    Your features are so rigid and firm.
    Like they were cut from the hardest of stone,
    And slathered with the matted fur of wild beasts.
    But your eyes, they’re sunken in your face.
    An inch too deep, and too small around.
    Like the tiny eyes of a hyena, peering through a sculpted mask, playing at being human.

    If only voting was that easy.

    ———

    Well, surprisingly close, but not quite on the present mark. Perhaps we can fix that.

    Toothpaste Marbles (take two)

    Your gesticulations are so firm and pert,
    These lithesome kong flukes of oars lofted often,
    Spackled with the glory fur of woolly mammon.
    But your fluoride pearls, you’ve sunk them into race,
    A mouth too open, and too small around,
    To sway lurid dogs + bated whales that you’re lion.

    ———

    [**] According to Wikipedia, toothpaste marbles are known by Canadians as ‘plainsies’, as in that Canadian reggae chart-topper I Can See Plainly Now (here I officially pass the alt-lyric baton).

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