PENTICTON LIST! COMING SOON!

I believe Jesse Puljuarvi will be in the Oilers lineup by Christmas, and that he could break with the big club in time for opening night with a brilliant training camp. The journey begins tomorrow.

YOUNG STARS 2016 (PROJECTED)

  1. G Nick Ellis—We don’t know what we don’t know, but .936 is a fantastic SP in any league.
  2. G Dylan Wells—1gp, 4.00, .892 in his pre-season appearance for the Peterborough Petes.
  3. G Keven Bouchard—3gp, 5.08 .814 in pre-season for Moncton Wildcats.
  4. RD Matt Benning—One of the players to watch. How close is he to NHL-ready?
  5. LD Ben Betker—Giant defender is 22 in two weeks, a big season ahead.
  6. LD Caleb Jones—2gp, 1-0-1 in pre-season with Portland Winterhawks. He could be the real deal.
  7. RD Ethan Bear—3gp, 2-1-3 in pre-season with Seattle Thunderbirds. An impressive 12 months.
  8. LD Markus Niemelainen—3gp, 0-0-0 in pre-season with Saginaw Spirit.
  9. LD Kyle Jenkins—Apparently an invite, 20-year old with average size and some skill.
  10. RD Aaron Irving—TC invite, 1gp, 1-0-1 with Oil  Kings in pre-season.
  11. RD Dallas Valentine—Big (6.04, 205) defender has been invited to camp. 2gp, 0-0-0 with Kamloops.
  12. RC Kyle Platzer—We will know much more about him this time next summer.
  13. C-L Joey Benik—AHL contract, Benik is a small (5.10, 174) and quite skilled. Should rock Penticton.
  14. LC Thomas Foster—4gp, 2-1-3 with Vancouver Giants. Teammate of Tyler Benson, he is an invite.
  15. LC Lane Bauer—2gp, 0-1-1 with Oil Kings in pre-season. Invite, two-way C, kind of player I like.
  16. RC Tomas Soustal—4gp, 0-1-1 with Kelowna in pre-season. Unsure of attendance, invite.
  17. L Drake Caggiula—Excited to see his impact this year. Can also play center.
  18. L Braden Christoffer—He will need to fight back the college kids for AHL playing time.
  19. L Scott Allen—A giant (6.03, 198) who came out of college (Alaska-Anchorage). I bet they like him a lot.
  20. L Tyler Benson—He is 4, 1-2-3 in pre-season. Early word positive on his level of play.
  21. L Collin Shirley—Two-way winger is 2gp, 1-0-1 with Kamloops in pre-season.
  22. R Jesse Puljujarvi—Every one of these camps has a superstar. Puljujarvi is manna from heaven.
  23. R Patrick Russell—We don’t know him, but he is aggressive and can score.
  24. R Greg Chase—He has a ticket to camp, plays with an edge and can post offense.
  25. R Jaedon Descheneau—Small skill winger, AHL deal and a wildcard entering camp.

I had 27 on my guess list a year ago, including all 26 who were on the actual list (I had Brossoit mistakenly going to camp). The first Oilers Young Stars roster boasted seven legit NHL players—that is a strong total. As for the list above, Scott Allen is 26 so may not appear (despite having just one pro season). I think there are three men who have a real chance to play in the NHL this year: Jesse Puljujuarvi, Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning.

CHIARELLI DRAFT CLUSTER

chia-draft-cluster

Craig Button has his 2017 first round out and it is worth the read. The No. 2 ranked player is a righty Swede blue, but the Oilers should be nowhere near that pick if things go according to Hoyle. We are NOT going to discuss the draft this fall and early winter, because the Oilers are going to be somewhere near the pennant race. Right?

One thing that we should begin talking about—especially if the Oilers can grab a second-round pick and have another strong draft in 2017—is the Chiarelli/Green draft cluster. Absolutely fell into Connor McDavid and Jesse Puljujarvi, but the arrows on the later picks looks good so far and that is an interesting trend. We can’t assume all of Jones, Bear and Paigin make it to the NHL and have productive careers, but even if one makes it that should be considered a win.

KIDS, DON’T LISTEN TO OLD PEOPLE

  • Bobby Clarke: “I think these guys are too young to be captains of hockey teams. They don’t even know themselves as players yet, and their positions in the league and everything else. Give them four or five years to just play and become the players they are and want to be and stuff before they’re expected to lead others.” Source

I have deliberately stayed out of the conversation about McDavid as captain, mostly because there is simply no way to know the dynamic inside the Oilers room. One thing I will say: Old people are often helpful, as experience can represent wisdom—but that is not always the case. When Bobby Clarke says players need four or five years, that may be exactly right, but I always raise an eyebrow when someone from a long distant era talks about what players are all about today. I am not saying don’t trust anyone over 30, but certainly a good idea to be aware that bias exists in all people.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

10 this morning, TSN1260. A crazy morning in sports, scheduled to appear:

  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey. CoH almost through the prospect series, we will discuss the top name and the quality of this year’s group.
  • Dan Ralph, Canadian Press. What is going on with the Als? Also, Jays.
  • Joey Alfieri, TSN690 Montreal. The exit of Marc Trestman and retirement of Anthony Calvillo has had an enormous and lasting impact on the Alouettes.

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168 Responses to "PENTICTON LIST! COMING SOON!"

  1. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    don’t trust anyone under 30 b/c they don’t know what they want and no one over 30 b/c they do.

    Also, never trust anyone who goes by Bobby.

  2. G Money says:

    Heh heh, “don’t listen to old people” and then we’ve got Bruce up first on LT’s show, which is I’m pretty sure the only two guys older than me round these parts!

  3. Lowetide says:

    G Money:
    Heh heh, “don’t listen to old people” and then we’ve got Bruce up first on LT’s show, which is I’m pretty sure the only two guys older than me round these parts!

    BIAS!! G MONEY SHOWING BIAS!! 🙂

  4. Jethro Tull says:

    Early thread-jack:

    I have a half hours drive to work. I leave at 6:05am and try to catch TSN 1260, or failing that, 630 CHED sports news before tuning in to CBC. It leaves me time for a lot of thinking. One thought that popped into my head whilst watching out for the moose that lives near the rail crossing on the 986 was when I was growing up in England. We played football before school, during school, after school, at weekends. We’d all want to be our favourite players, but you know, there has to be some sort of structure. Gary Lineker was a striker, not a central defender. It influenced where kids played in their formal teams. Much like kids in Canada playing shinny at the pond. I then thought about how certain national teams are now picking nothing but centers, and wondered if that may have an impact, say ten years from now.

    So, I leave my house this morning, a little after six (for you Hip fans), and hear that Ryan O’Reilly has replaced Seguin. A national team has purposely gone out of it’s way to replace Seguin not with arguably the premier LW in the NHL, but with a “versatile center who can play up and down the line-up.” Astounding. Truly astounding. The powers that be at Hockey Canada have watched Team NA eviscerate Team Europe with speed, have a free shot at roster re-alignment, a chance to add one of the game’s fastest and what happens?

    See LT. Making decisions based on things other than winning isn’t totally within the remit of the Oilers organization.

    PS: I consider RO’R to be a fine hockey player, he won’t embarrass himself, or the team. But Lordy, he’s no Taylor Hall.

  5. defmn says:

    Whenever people tell you what other people can’t do what they are really saying is that they can’t do it.

  6. speeds says:

    LT from article:

    The No. 2 ranked player is a righty Swede blue, but the Oilers should be nowhere near that pick if things go according to Hoyle. We are NOT going to discuss the draft this fall and early winter, because the Oilers are going to be somewhere near the pennant race. Right?

    ****

    Would you consider it a successful season if EDM misses the playoffs by 3 points, but wins the 2nd lottery spot? Or are you playoffs or bust, in terms of success?

  7. KSC10032 says:

    LT — As a fellow old-timer (I’ll be 62 in a month) I can certainly attest that — coming from Bobby Clarke — his statement is more than a bit rich.

    Clarke was one of the original “young” captains in the post expansion NHL. In an era when the draft eligible age was 20, Clarke was captain of the Flyers before his 3rd season. Traditionally, captains were senior players, even more senior than the 4 or 5 years he references in the above quote.

    Essentially, Clarke is being a hypocrite here, as his comment doesn’t even apply to his own circumstances.

  8. Ducey says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Early thread-jack:

    I have a half hours drive to work.I leave at 6:05am and try to catch TSN 1260, or failing that, 630 CHED sports news before tuning in to CBC.It leaves me time for a lot of thinking.One thought that popped into my head whilst watching out for the moose that lives near the rail crossing on the 986 was when I was growing up in England.We played football before school, during school, after school, at weekends.We’d all want to be our favourite players, but you know, there has to be some sort of structure.Gary Lineker was a striker, not a central defender.It influenced where kids played in their formal teams. Much like kids in Canada playing shinny at the pond. I then thought about how certain national teams are now picking nothing but centers, and wondered if that may have an impact, say ten years from now.

    So, I leave my house this morning, a little after six (for you Hip fans), and hear that Ryan O’Reilly has replaced Seguin.A national team has purposely gone out of it’s way to replace Seguin not with arguably the premier LW in the NHL, but with a “versatile center who can play up and down the line-up.”Astounding.Truly astounding.The powers that be at Hockey Canada have watched Team NA eviscerate Team Europe with speed, have a free shot at roster re-alignment, a chance to add one of the game’s fastest and what happens?

    See LT.Making decisions based on things other than winning isn’t totally within the remit of the Oilers organization.

    PS:I consider RO’R to be a fine hockey player, he won’t embarrass himself, or the team.But Lordy, he’s no Taylor Hall.

    ROR had 60 pts in 71 games (.845) and was 57% on the dot.

    Hall had 65 pts in 82 games (.79)

    Hard to criticize CAN for taking the guy with the better p/g especially if the guy is more versatile, plays more physically and has a rep for decent defense.

    I recall CAN under Babcock in the Olympics basically choking the life out of their opponents by taking away all time and space.

    Despite all the hype over the young guns, the best teams play a structured game with an emphasis on defense. Most C’s (Sam Gagner excepted) are much better defensively than wingers, given the nature of their assignment.

  9. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    TSN has an interview with Craig Custance from ESPN, he’s covering team North America for the World Cup. Craig had a conversation with Mark Scheifele who trained with Connor over the summer. Mark told Craig “I didn’t think it was physically possible but Connor managed to get faster this summer, he added another gear this off season,” Craig followed up, “You can’t actually take your eyes off the player, doesn’t matter if its practice or games, he’s clearly the best player on this team by a long shot.”

    And he is allllll ours 😀

  10. defmn says:

    Oilers list for Young Stars

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=892603

    # NAME POS HT WT C BORN HOMETOWN 2015-16 TEAM GP MIN GAA SV%
    30 Dylan Wells G 6’2” 182 L 1998-03-01 St. Catharines, ON Peterborough (OHL) 27 1516 4.59 0.871
    34 Nick Ellis G 6’1” 180 L 01/18/94 Millersville, MD Providence (H-East) 36 2196 1.8 0.936
    40 Keven Bouchard G 6’2” 208 L 04/19/96 Metabetchouan, QC Baie-Comeau (OMJHL) 21 1134 3.97 0.872
    Moncton (QMJHL) 20 1020 3.35 0.883
    # NAME POS HT WT S BORN HOMETOWN 2015-16 TEAM GP G A PTS PIM
    74 Ethan Bear D 5’11” 197 R 06/26/97 Ochapowace, SK Seattle (WHL) 69 19 46 65 33
    76 Ben Betker D 6’6” 228 L 09/29/94 Cranbrook, BC Norfolk (ECHL) 49 3 14 17 53
    Bakersfield (AHL) 14 0 2 2 9
    80 Markus Niemelainen D 6’4” 198 L 1998-08-01 Kuopio, FIN Saginaw (OHL) 65 1 26 27 28
    81 Caleb Jones D 6’1” 192 L 1997-06-06 Frisco, TX Portland (WHL) 72 10 45 55 64
    83 Matt Benning D 6’1” 201 R 05/25/94 St. Albert, AB Northeastern (H-East) 41 6 13 19 37
    89 Kayle Doetzel D 6’3” 201 R 06/19/95 Rosetown, SK Red Deer (WHL) 58 1 14 15 58
    90 Aaron Irving D 6’1” 204 R 1996-03-03 Edmonton, AB Edmonton (WHL) 72 9 31 40 88
    Milwaukee (AHL) 1 0 0 0 0
    91 Dallas Valentine D 6’4” 206 R 05/28/96 Lousana, AB Kamloops (WHL) 51 2 12 14 26
    Moose Jaw (WHL) 6 1 1 2 4
    92 Kyle Jenkins D 6’1” 171 L 04/22/96 Brampton, ON Peterborough (OHL) 62 3 33 36 34
    # NAME POS HT WT S BORN HOMETOWN 2015-16 TEAM GP G A PTS PIM
    36 Drake Caggiula LW 5’10” 185 L 06/20/94 Pickering, ON North Dakota (NCHC) 39 25 26 51 60
    39 Jesse Puljujarvi RW 6’3” 208 R 1998-07-05 Tornio, FIN Karpat (SM-liiga) 50 13 15 28 22
    41 Tomas Soustal C 6’3” 198 R 02/15/97 Sterbert, CZE Kelowna (WHL) 58 20 26 46 64
    46 Jaedon Descheneau RW 5’9” 192 R 02/22/95 Edmonton, AB Kootenay (WHL) 2 0 1 1 5
    47 Joey Benik LW 5’10” 175 L 01/26/92 Andover, MN St. Cloud (NCHC) 41 23 25 48 8
    Bakersfield (AHL) 4 0 1 1 2
    49 Tyler Benson LW 5’11” 197 L 03/15/98 Edmonton, AB Vancouver (WHL) 30 9 19 28 46
    52 Patrick Russell RW 6’1” 205 R 1993-04-01 Birkenrod, DEN St. Cloud (NCHC) 41 20 21 41 14
    57 Collin Shirley LW 6’2” 197 L 03/16/96 Saskatoon, SK Kamloops (WHL) 72 37 42 79 18
    58 Lane Bauer C 5’11” 191 L 1996-02-05 Anchorage, AK Edmonton (WHL) 72 29 36 65 26
    60 Carson Stadnyk C 6’2” 185 L 1995-07-02 Saskatoon, SK Everett (WHL) 71 21 28 49 30
    61 Braden Christoffer LW 5’10” 188 L 1994-02-08 Sherwood Park, AB Bakersfield (AHL) 33 1 4 5 57
    Norfolk (ECHL) 24 13 5 18 34
    64 Thomas Foster C 6’0” 185 L 03/28/96 Slave Lake, AB Vancouver (WHL) 28 8 12 20 20
    65 Chad Butcher C 5’10” 166 R 01/25/96 Kamloops, BC Medicine Hat (WHL) 71 27 47 74 87
    71 Kyle Platzer C 6’0” 172 R 1995-04-03 Kitchener, ON Bakersfield (AHL) 48 6 11 17 24
    72 Greg Chase C 6’0” 190 R 1995-01-01 Sherwood Park, AB Norfolk (ECHL) 43 18 19 37 46
    Bakersfield (AHL) 19 1 6 7 25
    DEFENCEMEN (9)
    GOALTENDERS (3)
    FORWARDS (15)
    2016 Edmonton Oilers rookie camp roster

  11. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Early thread-jack:

    I have a half hours drive to work.I leave at 6:05am and try to catch TSN 1260, or failing that, 630 CHED sports news before tuning in to CBC.It leaves me time for a lot of thinking.One thought that popped into my head whilst watching out for the moose that lives near the rail crossing on the 986 was when I was growing up in England.We played football before school, during school, after school, at weekends.We’d all want to be our favourite players, but you know, there has to be some sort of structure.Gary Lineker was a striker, not a central defender.It influenced where kids played in their formal teams. Much like kids in Canada playing shinny at the pond. I then thought about how certain national teams are now picking nothing but centers, and wondered if that may have an impact, say ten years from now.

    So, I leave my house this morning, a little after six (for you Hip fans), and hear that Ryan O’Reilly has replaced Seguin.A national team has purposely gone out of it’s way to replace Seguin not with arguably the premier LW in the NHL, but with a “versatile center who can play up and down the line-up.”Astounding.Truly astounding.The powers that be at Hockey Canada have watched Team NA eviscerate Team Europe with speed, have a free shot at roster re-alignment, a chance to add one of the game’s fastest and what happens?

    See LT.Making decisions based on things other than winning isn’t totally within the remit of the Oilers organization.

    PS:I consider RO’R to be a fine hockey player, he won’t embarrass himself, or the team.But Lordy, he’s no Taylor Hall.

    The premier LW in Hockey is Ovechkin.

    If you are picking a team purely for scoring, O’Reilly was more productive than Hall last year. He’s also got a big time reputation as a two way Selke winner type. Keep in mind that when rating defensive ability of forwards, the most important criteria is reputation (not my choice but it is what it is).

    Hall hasn’t produced well enough for the past two years. He just hasn’t. And I say this as a fan. I hope he can get back up there, but 60 point pace for a guy not known for his defense isn’t as elite as it’s being made to seem.

    Keep in mind I was perhaps the single most vocal proponent of the “Taylor Hall should be Team Captain” brigade at this time last year. I don’t hate the guy, I promise.

  12. Jethro Tull says:

    Ducey,

    ROR – 498 NHL games – 306pts

    Taylor Hall – 381 NHL games – 328pts

    Small sample sizes kill narratives.

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hallta02.html

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/oreilry01.html

    In fact, according to these links, Hall is just better. Just not a center.

  13. frjohnk says:

    speeds:
    LT from article:

    The No. 2 ranked player is a righty Swede blue, but the Oilers should be nowhere near that pick if things go according to Hoyle. We are NOT going to discuss the draft this fall and early winter, because the Oilers are going to be somewhere near the pennant race. Right?

    ****

    Would you consider it a successful season if EDM misses the playoffs by 3 points, but wins the 2nd lottery spot?Or are you playoffs or bust, in terms of success?

    If the oilers hit something like 92 points, missed playoffs by 3 points, that would a very successful season.

    And then won the 2nd overall pick ?

    Again successful. We get one helluva asset again, but this time other teams wouldn’t be able to bitch and complain about the team. They’d have to bitch about the lottery system.

  14. Rondo says:

    Sequin out O’reilly in. Hall is definitely overrated by Oiler fans. Obviously team Canada is looking for 2-way players.

  15. Lois Lowe says:

    As a general rule, I think ‘don’t do what Donny Don’t does’ is pretty good. In this case, don’t listen to Bobby Clarke.

  16. Jethro Tull says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: The premier LW in Hockey is Ovechkin.

    Wasn’t he nominated for the Vezina by the Hockey Writers? 😉

  17. Spengler says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Interesting thought.

    More players may want to play center but once you’ve reached a certain level of competition, only those with the right skill set are going to be selected by the coach to play there. There’s a versatility of skills required there that isn’t required at other positions, much like a midfielder. If your team is down a striker you’do rarely select a defender to replace him, unless you had Gary Doherty I suppose!

  18. Litke 94 says:

    Really enjoy Nolan Patrick as a player. I have seen him play a few times and he is very impressive. As much as I probably won’t care too much for Las Vegas as a team since I have no real vested interest in them, I will root for them to win the draft lottery to hopefully draft him.

    Would be nice to see them get a good start for their franchise.

  19. Water Fire says:

    I’m not sure making McDavid captain is a good idea, yet. For one, he doesn’t need more pressure, guys like him pile it on themselves already. Let him be a kid for a while and just play. There is a lot to learn even for him.

    Sure some old people are wrong, and stuck in the past. At the same time I don’t think prodigy is a replacement for experience, and more mature people who are on the ball have more in their bag of tricks than young people can. It’s the cycle of life.

    How would this blog go if you were 25, LT?

    I think Lucic is a another strong possibility for captain.

    __________________________

    The economy goes in cycles. When I got out of high school you couldn’t buy a job in Edmonton. When I got out of university, recession again. As things picked up, the largest cohort (boomers) had all the higher jobs and years left to work, they are still hanging on, the generation after me will benefit from their retirement.

    I decided I wanted to be a business owner. I talk to an old guy still working in the industry, he started out ‘back in the day’, bought out his partner, bought his building, in three years. Owns the whole block now I think. He likes to say you can’t make money at it anymore, bugger.

    When you are born makes a big difference in how easy money goes, another cycle of life.

  20. frjohnk says:

    If Babcock is coach of the Canadian team and has 100% say in who plays.

    As it stands right now, Taylor Hall and PK Subban wont play for that team. I know that for a fact.

  21. Litke 94 says:

    Another thing, am I out to lunch or did Hall not play really well defensively for the first half of last year, in addition to his impressive offensive output? I remember being rather excited at this improved Taylor Hall, only for it to slightly fade away.

    I can remember more than a few games where I took note of significant contributions by him on the back check early in the year, but as the offense started to fade, also did the 2-way. Could be hindsight bias.

  22. Water Fire says:

    speeds: Would you consider it a successful season if EDM misses the playoffs by 3 points, but wins the 2nd lottery spot? Or are you playoffs or bust, in terms of success?

    I would say if they do miss the playoffs I will be very disappointed if they don’t have lottery luck. I would rather get things going, enough waiting. Anything but playoffs should be considered a disappointment at this point. A failure of management with so much talent on the roster.

  23. jonrmcleod says:

    SPAM ALERT

    I started a new series on The Oilers Rig today: Stat of the Week. The first installment looks at penalties drawn per 60 minutes. Guess who led the Oilers in that category last season.

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2016/09/stat-week-unlikely-player-led-oilers-penalties-drawn-per-60-minutes/

  24. Water Fire says:

    Litke 94:
    Another thing, am I out to lunch or did Hall not play really well defensively for the first half of last year, in addition to his impressive offensive output? I remember being rather excited at this improved Taylor Hall, only for it to slightly fade away.

    I can remember more than a few games where I took note of significant contributions by him on the back check early in the year, but as the offense started to fade, also did the 2-way. Could be hindsight bias.

    Hall’s big problem is that he is not seen as a strong well rounded player, and also doesn’t put up enough box cars to cover it. His fancies are good, but does a guy like Babcock ask what his P/60 is or how many goals did he score last year?

    For example O Reilly is seen as a strong two way guy, can skate, is bigger, technically good, can shut players down, both left shots, and also scored within 5 pts of Hall last year on an equally bad team. If Hall scored like P Kane, Stamkos or Ovi he’d be there.

  25. stush18 says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Not to dumb down your fine post, but if Taylor hall isn’t playing on the top
    Three lines or penalty kill, he really isn’t effective.

    Ryan o’reilly is a more versatile player, so it allows the coaches to shuffle lines more easily when you have a player that can play other positions. Easier to make a centre into a winger than vice versa.

    Also there was talk of Wayne Simmons making the team next if anyone drops again

  26. Chachi says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Early thread-jack:

    I have a half hours drive to work.I leave at 6:05am and try to catch TSN 1260, or failing that, 630 CHED sports news before tuning in to CBC.It leaves me time for a lot of thinking.One thought that popped into my head whilst watching out for the moose that lives near the rail crossing on the 986 was when I was growing up in England.We played football before school, during school, after school, at weekends.We’d all want to be our favourite players, but you know, there has to be some sort of structure.Gary Lineker was a striker, not a central defender.It influenced where kids played in their formal teams. Much like kids in Canada playing shinny at the pond. I then thought about how certain national teams are now picking nothing but centers, and wondered if that may have an impact, say ten years from now.

    So, I leave my house this morning, a little after six (for you Hip fans), and hear that Ryan O’Reilly has replaced Seguin.A national team has purposely gone out of it’s way to replace Seguin not with arguably the premier LW in the NHL, but with a “versatile center who can play up and down the line-up.”Astounding.Truly astounding.The powers that be at Hockey Canada have watched Team NA eviscerate Team Europe with speed, have a free shot at roster re-alignment, a chance to add one of the game’s fastest and what happens?

    See LT.Making decisions based on things other than winning isn’t totally within the remit of the Oilers organization.

    PS:I consider RO’R to be a fine hockey player, he won’t embarrass himself, or the team.But Lordy, he’s no Taylor Hall.

    I heard Ryan O’Reilly was so excited to be named to the team that he almost drove his truck into a Tim Hortons again.

    Sorry Jethro Tull, I know this is World Cup of Hockey news, am I allowed to comment on it?

  27. stush18 says:

    Connor mcdavid has had all eyes on him since he was 13.

    He captained his junior team.

    He captained his world junior team despite older and highly rated prospects on the team.

    This talk of him Not knowing how to lead is bullshit. Same with talk of him not being able to handle the pressure. He’s the highest touted prospect since Crosby, and may even be better.

    Giving landeskog the captaincy is bull. Mcdavid is not landeskog.

  28. Litke 94 says:

    Water Fire: Hall’s big problem is that he is not seen as a strong well rounded player, and also doesn’t put up enough box cars to cover it. His fancies are good, but does a guy like Babcock ask what his P/60 is or how many goals did he score last year?

    For example O Reilly is seen as a strong two way guy, can skate, is bigger, technically good, can shut players down, both left shots, and also scored within 5 pts of Hall last year on an equally bad team. If Hall scored like P Kane, Stamkos or Ovi he’d be there.

    Yeah I definitely can see it from that perspective. I find the more that we reflect on last year, the more disappointed I become in how the second half was such a letdown last year. Seriously could have been one of Hall’s best years at the pace he was on.

  29. digger50 says:

    Great post this morning Jethro. When choosing these teams you can get players that are exceptional at thier position and then Some versatile talent to fill in where needed. Either choice can be correct. In this case I would have went with Hall.

    On this mornings thread, I’m with Bobby C. Hockey is still steeped in tradition including dressing room behaviour. The polite quiet kid in the corner is seldom the voice in the room regardless of talent. I don’t see that changing. McDavid captain is a franchise decision over a team decision in my opinion. I’m sure Conner will do fine, but this is about the Oilers.

    When winning all will be well, it will be a great decision. When losing it will be extremely difficult for Connor to take control of a players only meeting. i have heard bloggers post comments about how this player or that player supports Connor as captain. What did you expect them to say? All of them can see where the organization is going. These are NHL players, they follow a leader not just talent. I support allowing McDavid to develop into an NHL leader first and this takes more than 45 games. I think the organization does him no favours hanging the C on him so early. Two years from now in a players vote, that would be the time…….we just cannot wait that long.

    Naming

  30. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    stush18:
    Jethro Tull,

    Also there was talk of Wayne Simmons making the team next if anyone drops again

    I prefer Simmonds over ROR given the tone of the preliminary games.

  31. Truth says:

    stush18:
    Connor mcdavid has had all eyes on him since he was 13.

    He captained his junior team.

    He captained his world junior team despite older and highly rated prospects on the team.

    This talk of him Not knowing how to lead is bullshit. Same with talk of him not being able to handle the pressure. He’s the highest touted prospect since Crosby, and may even be better.

    Giving landeskog the captaincy is bull. Mcdavid is not landeskog.

    Exactly.

    If McDavid wasn’t named the captain of North America he would still be viewed as the leader by his peers. He’s the most suited to handle the captaincy due to the pressure he has overcome to date.

    If McDavid is not named as the captain of the Oilers, the captain who is named will be known as the interim captain until they eventually give it to McDavid He is already viewed as the leader of the team, regardless of age. Might as well just give it to him now.

  32. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Ducey,

    ROR – 498 NHL games – 306pts

    Taylor Hall – 381 NHL games – 328pts

    Small sample sizes kill narratives.

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hallta02.html

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/oreilry01.html

    In fact, according to these links, Hall is just better.Just not a center.

    Two years isn’t a small sample size. Hall’s numbers are pumped by his seasons 3 and 4 years ago. Last two years his pace is 61 points in 82 games, playing alongside some pretty darn good players.

    The reality is that might be an aberration and he might get back to where he was, which is to say a guy who can put up north of 80 while pushing the river.

    Or, maybe, after years and years of getting creamed into the boards at full speed, he isn’t what he was.

    I don’t know. Neither does anyone else. We shall see.

    In the meantime his production is very good, not elite, on top of being a winger not known for his defensive play.

  33. geowal says:

    Jethro Tull:

    I have a half hours drive to work.I leave at 6:05am and try to catch TSN 1260, or failing that, 630 CHED sports news before tuning in to CBC.It leaves me time for a lot of thinking.One thought that popped into my head whilst watching out for the moose that lives near the rail crossing on the 986 was when I was growing up in England

    Ah the ‘ol Daishowa highway, grew up just off that one, I know the rail crossing you speak of. Watch out for the moose indeed.

  34. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    digger50,

    I don’t quite understand your point, why exactly would it be difficult for him to take control of a dressing room? He’s captained every team he’s played on save for the World Championship team.

    We have seen a few examples where he can change the complexion of a game in one shift, where he can take his hometown team behind the woodshed for a shellacking on national tv, where he can embarrass NHL defensemen in his first game back after missing six weeks.

    There are many things I worry about with Connor (health mainly) but him not having the respect of his fellow Oilers is most definitely not one of them.

  35. Jethro Tull says:

    Chachi: I heard Ryan O’Reilly was so excited to be named to the team that he almost drove his truck into a Tim Hortons again.

    Sorry Jethro Tull, I know this is World Cup of Hockey news, am I allowed to comment on it?

    I’ll allow it! 😉

    To further your point, it blows the whole “Taylor Hall Dressing Room Cancer” thing out of the water.

    I mean, what’s being a bit moody when tying up your skates compared to drunkenly (allegedly) crashing a truck into a Canadian institution?

  36. Jethro Tull says:

    geowal: Ah the ‘ol Daishowa highway, grew up just off that one, I know the rail crossing you speak of. Watch out for the moose indeed.

    Yep, I work at DMI!

  37. Jethro Tull says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: Two years isn’t a small sample size.

    It is compared to the overall time these players have been in the league, otherwise it’s cherry picking.

    Also, Hall only played 53 games two seasons ago, compared to ROR’s 82. And in that season, ROR put up 0.67ppg and…..wait for it…..Hall put up 0.71.

    Check and mate! Now king me.

  38. stush18 says:

    Jethro Tull: It is compared to the overall time these players have been in the league, otherwise it’s cherry picking.

    Also, Hall only played 53 games two seasons ago, compared to ROR’s 82.And in that season, ROR put up 0.67ppg and…..wait for it…..Hall put up 0.71.

    Check and mate!Now king me.

    Wouldn’t halls sample be too small? Because he only played 53 games?

  39. stush18 says:

    GORDIES ELBOW says:
    September 13, 2016 at 10:30 pm
    stush18: The hardest part of the game is scoring.
    I respectfully disagree.
    The hardest part of the game is outscoring the competition, as a team.
    I’ve played on teams with the player who floats in the neutral zone, looking for the breakout pass. They’ve scored more goals than I, but due to their positional play, cost their team. Lots of offense, both ends of the rink. Great for them, not great for the guy that has to make the breakout pass.
    In order to win, you need all types of players. There are many players in the NHL that are of the same player type I mentioned playing in the NHL. Petr Klima, one of the most skilled players I’ve ever seen play, was this way. He was a goal scorer, and the best guy to come off of the bench deep into overtime, pissed about being benched during a Stanley Cup final. That said, he was benched for a reason, and the goal could have just as easily gone the other way.
    I think that it’s easy to focus on the goals and shots, and harder to quantify the impact of the “role” players. Pisani was great, but it wasn’t just the clutch goal scoring that playoff series. It was the great play away from the puck, limiting the opposition. He played his role to a “T.”
    Edmonton needs to develop all types of players, and give the coaching staff the broadest group of skills to succeed.
    They’re apparently aiming for simpler, stronger defensive system, one that I expect is about as interesting as a Darryl Sutter interview. Expect to see mistakes pushed out of the game, and offense stifled by the coaching staff. We’re reasonably looking at offense squeezed out of both sides of the puck.
    I’m less concerned with finding offensive players, than players that play on the right side of the puck. Any players in Bakersfield need to know that if they’re not playing on the right side of the puck, they’re not playing.
    (Quote) (Reply)

    Copied from last thread

    I’m inclined to semi agree with you.

    However we’ve seen lots of examples of teams with checkers playing shutdown hockey that have no business winning hockey games, yet they are. It’s simple to teach players how to play defense. Whether or not they are willing to is another question. But if you took all the third liners in the league and asked them to commit full to a defensive scheme, I’m sure they would.

    These teams also outscore there opponents because they sit back and wait for a defensive break down.

    The hardest thing to do is score. That’s why ovi makes ten mill. I’ll add tho that teams play shutdown hockey seem to be the most successful.

    It’s sad actually. Coaches know they need to at least make it to overtime. They shutdown the ice because it’s easy to teach your team defense.

    I really think if we adopted a three point system, teams would open up. You’d really see the difference between good and average teams.

  40. Jethro Tull says:

    stush18: Wouldn’t halls sample be too small? Because he only played 53 games?

    Bingo! So we look at the bigger picture, and what do we see? My point to my buddy Ca$h was even just taking the last two years of their production is risky.

  41. Caramel Batman says:

    There is no evidence that Hall is a poor defensive player. Poor defensive players give up lots of shots, lots of chances, and lots of goals.

    Hall, despite playing with bad teammates against the best competition, does none of those things.

    People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

  42. Ducey says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Ducey,

    ROR – 498 NHL games – 306pts

    Taylor Hall – 381 NHL games – 328pts

    Small sample sizes kill narratives.

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hallta02.html

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/oreilry01.html

    In fact, according to these links, Hall is just better.Just not a center.

    CAN is not making a determination of who had a better career. They are trying to find the guy who is better right now.

    Last season has a lot more to do with the present than three seasons ago.

  43. Ducey says:

    Caramel Batman:
    There is no evidence that Hall is a poor defensive player.Poor defensive players give up lots of shots, lots of chances, and lots of goals.

    Hall, despite playing with bad teammates against the best competition, does none of those things.

    People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    Well, that should really encourage conversation.

    Get some treatment friend.

  44. Caramel Batman says:

    It’s all bullshit reasoning anyway. When did Matt Duchene become Patrice Bergeron?

    The hockey establishment doesn’t think Taylor Hall is very good. This is clear.

    Which is why trading Taylor Hall was so fucking dumb. Trade someone the hockey establishment loves.

    Now this still doesn’t rise to the idiocy of keeping Phil Kessel and Tyler Johnson off of the American team, but it does show that being an idiot is the baseline level of competence of NHL management types.

    Hell, Korpi-fucking-Koski is on Team Finland, the Russians remain the Russians. Honestly, is there a single competent person in the entire hockey world?

  45. dustrock says:

    I wish that I had Jesse’s Girl if only we had individual goal songs.

    Also really hoped to have see Berglund. Ah well.

  46. Caramel Batman says:

    Ducey: Well, that should really encourage conversation.

    Get some treatment friend.

    What conversation? I respond to intelligent posts that make thought provoking posts in kind. I give every post the respect it is due.

  47. Jethro Tull says:

    Ducey: CAN is not making a determination of who had a better career. They are trying to find the guy who is better right now.

    Last season has a lot more to do with the present than three seasons ago.

    Really? PK Subban. Better last year than Muzzin and Bouwmeester.

  48. Yeti says:

    Caramel Batman: People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    I agree with your point, but is there anything at all you can do to try and tame your inner asshole? For all your undoubted intelligence and smarts, you seem incapable of grasping the very simple point that comments like these are highly provocative, will undoubtedly elicit a bitter response, and our esteemed host has repeatedly asked for this kind of behaviour to be avoided. It’s really the height of selfishness to continually go on like this and incredibly disrespectful. Perhaps you simply don’t care or can’t control yourself (neither is good), but would it really have been too much trouble simply to make your point without the gratuitous insults?

  49. Caramel Batman says:

    stevezie:
    Caramel Batman,

    Yzerman.

    Yes. I agree completely. The way he held his ground and won on Drouin and Stamkos was very impressive.

  50. Frank the dog says:

    Everything off-ice about Hall, even anything that could conceivably have impacted the team’s on-ice play etc. is taboo on this blog, because facts are facts and stats are facts. Gossip and speculation are just that, and best kept off this blog.
    However, the contrary also applies: If you don’t factually know it is not true, then the same applies as speculation and gossip: It may or may not be true and stating either way as a fact is equally incorrect. Smoke usually indicates fire. Hall appears to have the mark of Cain on him. Whatever it is degraded his trade value and degraded his ability to play on Babcock’s team despite him doing well on the prior World Championship run alongside Crosby.
    Bottom line: It is equally incorrect to state that Hall did or did not have off-ice issues that drove him out of Edmonton, and/or lowered his trade value, and/or put him on Babcock’s blacklist.
    If we don’t know what any issues were, we sure don’t know what may have caused them or why Hall is experiencing what he is experiencing.
    If I was in Hall’s shoes I would be the most motivated player to be the #1 LW in the NHL that skated the ice this season.
    In the meantime let’s just acknowledge that we believe what we choose to believe and stop calling each other and the current Oilers Manager and Coach all sorts of derogatory names.
    Having said that, it seems to me that there has to be an unpublished reason or set of reasons for Hall’s undertrade and his rejection by people like Babcock.
    I just hope that Hall is over whatever happened in the past and that both he and Larsson have great careers in their new homes.

    Thank you LT for keeping this blog on an even keel.

  51. season not played says:

    Caramel Batman:
    It’s all bullshit reasoning anyway.When did Matt Duchene become Patrice Bergeron?

    The hockey establishment doesn’t think Taylor Hall is very good.This is clear.

    Which is why trading Taylor Hall was so fucking dumb.Trade someone the hockey establishment loves.

    Now this still doesn’t rise to the idiocy of keeping Phil Kessel and Tyler Johnson off of the American team, but it does show that being an idiot is the baseline level of competence of NHL management types.

    Hell, Korpi-fucking-Koski is on Team Finland, the Russians remain the Russians.Honestly, is there a single competent person in the entire hockey world?

    Only you Sporty, only you.

  52. Side says:

    Caramel Batman:
    It’s all bullshit reasoning anyway.When did Matt Duchene become Patrice Bergeron?

    The hockey establishment doesn’t think Taylor Hall is very good.This is clear.

    Which is why trading Taylor Hall was so fucking dumb.Trade someone the hockey establishment loves.

    Now this still doesn’t rise to the idiocy of keeping Phil Kessel and Tyler Johnson off of the American team, but it does show that being an idiot is the baseline level of competence of NHL management types.

    Hell, Korpi-fucking-Koski is on Team Finland, the Russians remain the Russians.Honestly, is there a single competent person in the entire hockey world?

    It always amazes me when people assume they know how to do a job they have never done before, or have been exposed to personally.

    You can’t be a GM and won’t ever be a GM. Does that make you an idiot since that appears to be the baseline qualifications? Must be hard when you don’t meet the minimum requirements…

  53. Caramel Batman says:

    Yeti: I agree with your point, but is there anything at all you can do to try and tame your inner asshole? For all your undoubted intelligence and smarts, you seem incapable of grasping the very simple point that comments like these are highly provocative, will undoubtedly elicit a bitter response, and our esteemed host has repeatedly asked for this kind of behaviour to be avoided. It’s really the height of selfishness to continually go on like this and incredibly disrespectful. Perhaps you simply don’t care or can’t control yourself (neither is good), but would it really have been too much trouble simply to make your point without the gratuitous insults?

    There are two conversations occurring here simultaneously. There is the occasional interesting conversation, that involves intelligence and respect, usually involving the same regular posters, which is based upon a common ground, and then there is the battle of warring tribes, with whom no common ground exists.

  54. Side says:

    Yeti: I agree with your point, but is there anything at all you can do to try and tame your inner asshole? For all your undoubted intelligence and smarts,

    Think you’re being a bit generous here.

    You’re talking about the guy who said Lucic isn’t worth a 7th round pick.

  55. PunkInDrublic says:

    Caramel Batman:
    There is no evidence that Hall is a poor defensive player.Poor defensive players give up lots of shots, lots of chances, and lots of goals.

    Hall, despite playing with bad teammates against the best competition, does none of those things.

    People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    LT – You really need to get a handle on this guy. He’s undermining everything I (we?) love about your blog. Every damn day we have to filter through his BS.

  56. Ducey says:

    Jethro Tull: Really?PK Subban.Better last year than Muzzin and Bouwmeester.

    I’d take PK over those guys. Wouldn’t you? Which kind of proves my point regarding Hall

    With PK its likely a handedness thing

    Hard to argue with Weber, Doughty, Burns and Pietrangelo on the right side.

    Though I am sure someone will call me an inbred moron soon regarding that opinion.

  57. hunter1909 says:

    Caramel Batman: People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    You really just meant they’re all deplorable, right?

  58. hunter1909 says:

    Caramel Batman: There is the occasional interesting conversation, that involves intelligence and respect, usually involving the same regular posters,

    Then there’s Caramel Batman, who’s simply an asshole.

  59. Caramel Batman says:

    Like I said, a tribal war, with no quarter given.

  60. Woodguy says:

    When two tribes go to war

    One is all that you can score

  61. Oil2Oilers says:

    I don’t see Aapeli Rasanen on LT’s list or the one DEFMN shared.

    Is he already with his Finnish club? Did he come over so the Jasper camp?

    Aside from the obvious, Puljujarvi, I am interested in checking our Rasanen, Caggiula, Benson and Niemelainen amongst the new guys coming. I really like the Penticton tournament and wish I could attend this year.

  62. hunter1909 says:

    Frank the dog: Hall appears to have the mark of Cain on him.

    Playing for the 21st century version of the Oakland Seals can do that to a player.

    Come to think of it, I’ve been looking for Ivan Boldriev’s name on the 1976 Super Series team sheet list forever.

  63. stush18 says:

    Ducey: I’d take PK over those guys. Wouldn’t you? Which kind of proves my point regarding Hall

    With PK its likely a handedness thing

    Hard to argue with Weber, Doughty, Burns and Pietrangelo on the right side.

    Though I am sure someone will call me an inbred moron soon regarding that opinion.

    Did you hear Carey prices quote about PK?

    I’m going from memory here, so feel free to correct me, but “PK plays an exiting style. He’s a good hockey player. The style we want to play, where we need to exit the zone quickly, and get the puck to the forwards, isn’t really PK’s style.”

    More or less what he said, feel free to look up the original.

    Creativity and originality are being taken out of the game. It is a team game, and you can suffocate your opponents into submission. You don’t need to get into a track meet, which is what subban would love.

  64. Mr DeBakey says:

    Caramel Batman: People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    Can we all agree they’re incorrect and leave it at that?

  65. stevezie says:

    Only by attacking ideas instead of people do you stand a hope of changing someone’s mind.

    So i try to be nice.

    But i get the instinct.

    I also prefer this place when it’s a little scrappy. I may be in the minority.

  66. Mr DeBakey says:

    PunkInDrublic: LT – You really need to get a handle on this guy. He’s undermining everything I (we?) love about your blog. Every damn day we have to filter through his BS.

    If you don’t like his stuff, scroll through it.
    I do it for about one-third of the comments.
    Usually.
    You can always tell when I forget and start reading the wrong guy.

  67. stevezie says:

    stevezie,

    In my mind winning isn’t everyone else realising you’re stupid, it’s you realising I’m right.

    I know most are too entrenched to listen so you might as well play to the crowd, but I’m an optimist. Sometimes.

  68. stevezie says:

    Mr DeBakey: You can always tell when I forget and start reading the wrong guy.

    I resemble that remark.

  69. stush18 says:

    stevezie:
    Only by attacking ideas instead of people do you stand a hope of changing someone’s mind.

    So i try to be nice.

    But i get the instinct.

    I also prefer this place when it’s a little scrappy. I may be in the minority.

    I like it when people get passionate about players. When they defend when there is no reason to defend the player.

    Calling into question a persons genetics doesn’t bro much to the convo. Starting to remind me of dsf, except he really just moved the goalposts.

  70. Caramel Batman says:

    stevezie:
    Only by attacking ideas instead of people do you stand a hope of changing someone’s mind.

    So i try to be nice.

    But i get the instinct.

    I also prefer this place when it’s a little scrappy. I may be in the minority.

    I don’t really agree. All arguments are about persons, and the response should be crafted to the person. The tone of my online persona is a mirror.

    I have been much more caustic of late, but that is because the tenor of the conversation here has changed. A large group of posters that I consider representative of a certain kind of small minded populist viciousness have come to predominate, both with respect to their ideas (I find their ideas vicious) and the way they are expressed.

    They come from the same root of insularity, the desire of the majority to identify and ostracize the outlier. This is how Taylor Hall has the reputation he has. He’s not as good because he doesn’t play the game the “right way,” and people who don’t recognize this, don’t understand how “hockey is really played.” This will be shortly followed by an appeal to authority. Mike Babcock didn’t pick Taylor Hall again. See!!!!!!!!!!

    Because there is no rational criterion to these claims there is no way for them to be reasoned out of them. What good does it do to point out that this doesn’t match up with the “facts?” The facts will simply be disputed as not being real facts. What good does it do to point out that this doesn’t meet any rational standard? The standard will just change.

    This is why proceeding with rational arguments is a waste of time. Before you can get to rational arguments the established authority of “hockey people” must be destroyed. So long as the opinion of Mike Babcock, or Todd McClellan, or Pete Chiarelli are automatically accepted as the final word, or even any word, on hockey questions, there is nothing to talk about.

    The tribal war needs to be sorted out before the conversation can begin.

  71. JDï™ says:


    Bob Stauffer Verified account
    ‏@Bob_Stauffer

    Oscar Klefbom on @OilersNow ” I think I am 100% for sure, I’ve been skating for weeks, if it was a game tomorrow I would play for sure”

    He went on to say he’s hoping for 25 minutes per night.

    Giddyup.

  72. npanciroli says:

    Hall isn’t good defensively but I can totally see why people think he is.
    Hall is good defensively but I can totally see why people don’t think he is.

  73. Yeti says:

    Caramel Batman: There are two conversations occurring here simultaneously.There is the occasional interesting conversation, that involves intelligence and respect, usually involving the same regular posters, which is based upon a common ground, and then there is the battle of warring tribes, with whom no common ground exists.

    That’s all good and well, but when the person who kindly organises, hosts and coordinates the site repeatedly asks for people to act with respect to all posters, even if they are of a ‘different tribe’ then you damn well know you should act appropriately. You only need to look at the deterioration of this thread after you made your deliberately provocative comment. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

  74. stush18 says:

    So question for the group

    As per caramels comment, players who turn the puck over lots aren’t considered bad defensively, because it’s been shown that means they have the puck more. I’ve heard this before, and it makes sense.

    But it seems a stretch to call these guys good defensively, no? To me it means they are just very good at creating chances, and despite there large number of turnovers, they still manage to create chances.

    Not only that, but we are completely ignoring competition, which zone giveaways happen in, whether the giveaways happen when you’re trailing or leading or tied, and all sorts of other situations.

    Going from memory, hall is bad for forcing passes thru lanes, or trying to get past multiple defenders on his own.

    Imo, that’s why people get pissed. Because he hasn’t learned from five years of hockey that forcing plays at the blue line is a risky play. That instead of going 1v2, he should maybe circle back, maintain possession, attempt a reentry with full numbers.

    Pointing to the high number of skill players at the top of the turnovers list doesn’t do much for me

  75. Jethro Tull says:

    stush18:
    So question for the group

    As per caramels comment, players who turn the puck over lots aren’t considered bad defensively, because it’s been shown that means they have the puck more. I’ve heard this before, and it makes sense.

    But it seems a stretch to call these guys good defensively, no? To me it means they are just very good at creating chances, and despite there large number of turnovers, they still manage to create chances.

    Not only that, but we are completely ignoring competition, which zone giveaways happen in, whether the giveaways happen when you’re trailing or leading or tied, and all sorts of other situations.

    Going from memory, hall is bad for forcing passes thru lanes, or trying to get past multiple defenders on his own.

    Imo, that’s why people get pissed. Because he hasn’t learned from five years of hockey that forcing plays at the blue line is a risky play. That instead of going 1v2, he should maybe circle back, maintain possession, attempt a reentry with full numbers.

    Pointing to the high number of skill players at the top of the turnovers list doesn’t do much for me

    I’ve commented on this before. Here’s what I found:

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-turnover-plus-minus/2015/

    I would draw your attention to the bottom of the list. BTW, Hall is a mediocre #664 with 9 more give-aways than take-aways. PK Subban leads list on Give-aways.

  76. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Jethro Tull: Bingo!So we look at the bigger picture, and what do we see?My point to my buddy Ca$h was even just taking the last two years of their production is risky.

    I get what you are saying, but arguing in favour of the bigger picture and then pretending that three years ago is just as valid as last year, and the year before that, is in my opinion a bigger fallacy.

    Some sort of weighted average is probably best. 4 year totals 40%/30%/20%/10%…. something like that. I don’t care enough to try. Because, again, I like Taylor Hall. I just have a problem with hearing about how he’s an elite offensive player with absolutely 0 acknowledgment that he hasn’t been scoring all that well lately.

    I have the same issue with the “well he scores so well at even strength” argument. I agree, and that makes him good… because he is good. The issue here though is that assessing players via even strength numbers is really most effective at comparing players who don’t get PP time to those that do, so you can see if someone is putting up better number than their opportunities warrant. Taylor Hall is getting lots of PP time, as are the people we are comparing him too. If a coach didn’t give Taylor PP time on the basis of him not being good at it, he’d probably get crucified by both the fan base and Taylor himself, so it’s kind of a non starter. His total scoring, given the minutes he plays, has been very good, but not elite, for two years now.

  77. stevezie says:

    stush18,

    Hall’s defensive value depends on your view of defence. He is okay in his own zone, but he is elite at keeping the puck out of his own zone and in his team’s possession. He’s good at defense by being the main reason he rarely has to play it- and when he does not for long.

  78. Side says:

    Caramel Batman: I don’t really agree.All arguments are about persons, and the response should be crafted to the person.The tone of my online persona is a mirror.

    I have been much more caustic of late, but that is because the tenor of the conversation here has changed. A large group of posters that I consider representative of a certain kind of small minded populist viciousness have come to predominate, both with respect to their ideas (I find their ideas vicious) and the way they are expressed.

    They come from the same root of insularity, the desire of the majority to identify and ostracize the outlier.This is how Taylor Hall has the reputation he has.He’s not as good because he doesn’t play the game the “right way,” and people who don’t recognize this, don’t understand how “hockey is really played.”This will be shortly followed by an appeal to authority.Mike Babcock didn’t pick Taylor Hall again.See!!!!!!!!!!

    Because there is no rational criterion to these claims there is no way for them to be reasoned out of them.What good does it do to point out that this doesn’t match up with the “facts?”The facts will simply be disputed as not being real facts.What good does it do to point out that this doesn’t meet any rational standard?The standard will just change.

    This is why proceeding with rational arguments is a waste of time.Before you can get to rational arguments the established authority of “hockey people” must be destroyed.So long as the opinion of Mike Babcock, or Todd McClellan, or Pete Chiarelli are automatically accepted as the final word, or even any word, on hockey questions, there is nothing to talk about.

    The tribal war needs to be sorted out before the conversation can begin.

    The hypocrisy in your comment is genuinely hilarious. I guess every comment board needs a full-time troll though so in that regard, good work.

  79. Caramel Batman says:

    stush18,

    Turning the puck over only matters if it results in shots, chances, and goals against.

    So how do you measure who is the best defensively. How about shots, chances, and goals against?

    If you do this with the Oilers you’ll find that Matt Hendricks is the best defensive player. Him or Teddy Purcell?

    Except Hendricks regularly plays against the worst offensive players on the other team. And he creates very little offensive for. So is he good defensively or does he cheat for defense and play against bad players?

    Now take Taylor Hall. He gives up two more shots per 60 than Hendricks while generating five more shots per 60 and playing against the best players in the league. Is Hendricks really “better” defensively?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than Nugent-Hopkins, and yet Nugent-Hopkins is good defensively while Hall isn’t. Why?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than O’Reilly, and yet O’Reilly is good defensively while Hall isn’t. Why?

    If what they are doing is so good why doesn’t it result in fewer shots, fewer chances, and fewer goalls?

    What does defense mean if it doesn’t mean any of these things?

    Answer: it is a term without meaning used by people to justify their prejudices.

  80. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    I’ll just put one more thing out there on the Hall front.

    It’s possible he doesn’t want to go. Maybe he wants to be in training camp for his new team and coach. Or maybe they asked him not to go.

    If I were Hall I’d take a pass on this one, but that’s just me. New Jersey is going to be a big change of pace, and he really needs to make sure he comes out of the gate flying this season.

  81. stevezie says:

    Caramel Batman: This is why proceeding with rational arguments is a waste of time.

    This is true.

    The research is pretty conclusive that most people do not respond to facts.

    http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts-dont-win-arguments is one of dozens of recent articles on the subject, and if anyone is interested Scott Adams has been writing about Trump and why he’s succeeding through embracing the irrelevance of facts.

    However, this doesn’t mean people don’t respond to anything at all. I used to be good at winning arguments (convincing the spectators that I’m right), but i am trying to get good at discussions (convincing the person i am talking to that I’m right*).

    People aren’t rational, but they can be reached. That usually starts by treating them like they’re not idiots. Not because they’re not idiots, but because i want to win.

    And because I’m an idiot.

    *i know i might be wrong, but exploring ideas with someone is a slightly different thing than debating them.

  82. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Caramel Batman,

    Correct. The defensive value of forwards is primarily ranked on the basis of reputation.

  83. Jethro Tull says:

    Caramel Batman:
    stush18,

    Turning the puck over only matters if it results in shots, chances, and goals against.

    So how do you measure who is the best defensively.How about shots, chances, and goals against?

    If you do this with the Oilers you’ll find that Matt Hendricks is the best defensive player.Him or Teddy Purcell?

    Except Hendricks regularly plays against the worst offensive players on the other team.And he creates very little offensive for.So is he good defensively or does he cheat for defense and play against bad players?

    Now take Taylor Hall.He gives up two more shots per 60 than Hendricks while generating five more shots per 60 and playing against the best players in the league.Is Hendricks really “better” defensively?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than Nugent-Hopkins, and yet Nugent-Hopkins is good defensively whileHall isn’t.Why?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than O’Reilly, and yet O’Reilly is good defensively while Hall isn’t.Why?

    If what they are doing is so good why doesn’t it result in fewer shots, fewer chances, and fewer goalls?

    What does defense mean if it doesn’t mean any of these things?

    Answer: it is a term without meaning used by people to justify their prejudices.

    Now this is a good post, Caramel. Great questions for everybody to ponder.

  84. hags9k says:

    I believe that Price’s comments about PK can be applied for Hall and team Canada.

    Hall’s style of play leads to some unpredictability on the ice. Team Canada, as evidenced at Sochi, is extremely structured in their play right now. I don’t think the coaching staff has any time for a bit of a freestyler or rogue forward.

    I’m not saying that Hall doesn’t deserve to be there, he does. And I’m not saying that his style of play would hurt the team more than help, IMO it wouldn’t, he’s an incredible player.

    I’m just saying with all the talent and scoring at their disposal, I can understand that the management just doesn’t have the cajones to add him.

    I think those that point to the rumoured character issues are missing the point here. I think, as with PK, it’s just style of play.

  85. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Caramel Batman,

    You’re asking the right questions but you’re using the lack of a known answer as support for your position which doesn’t have any evidence.

    Taylor Hall had the 22nd most giveaways in the league last year. Does this make him bad defensively? Only if it’s done in the defensive zone. To the eye, that isn’t so. Most of his giveaways are under pressure in the offensive zone.

    Does this make him poor defensively? No.

    Does Hall actively prevent goals against his team? Not really, but what winger does?

    Does Hall indirectly prevent goals against his team? Yes, evidence is his brilliant Corsi.

    There is not currently a metric for ‘defensive prowess’. Possession doesn’t contain context for defensive acumen. So, the next best form of evidence is expert opinion. GMs, coaches, pundits, analysts.

    What do Bob McKenzie or Elliotte Friedman think?

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-giveaways-statistic/2015/

  86. stush18 says:

    Caramel Batman:
    stush18,

    Turning the puck over only matters if it results in shots, chances, and goals against.

    So how do you measure who is the best defensively.How about shots, chances, and goals against?

    If you do this with the Oilers you’ll find that Matt Hendricks is the best defensive player.Him or Teddy Purcell?

    Except Hendricks regularly plays against the worst offensive players on the other team.And he creates very little offensive for.So is he good defensively or does he cheat for defense and play against bad players?

    Now take Taylor Hall.He gives up two more shots per 60 than Hendricks while generating five more shots per 60 and playing against the best players in the league.Is Hendricks really “better” defensively?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than Nugent-Hopkins, and yet Nugent-Hopkins is good defensively whileHall isn’t.Why?

    Hall has better shot against numbers than O’Reilly, and yet O’Reilly is good defensively while Hall isn’t.Why?

    If what they are doing is so good why doesn’t it result in fewer shots, fewer chances, and fewer goalls?

    What does defense mean if it doesn’t mean any of these things?

    Answer: it is a term without meaning used by people to justify their prejudices.

    Well I would reply with playing centre is a more difficult position than winger.

    That creating shots is much easier for a winger, and more difficult for a centre.

    What I’m more concerned about is what happens immidiately after the turnover. Also, all shots are not equal, imo. Halls rush down the wing with a shot from the outside is exactly what defenders want. We’ve been trained to push outside, and allow shots from the outside. You’ve just gained possssion

  87. godot10 says:

    Oil2Oilers:
    I don’t see Aapeli Rasanen on LT’s list or the one DEFMN shared.

    Is he already with his Finnish club? Did he come over so the Jasper camp?

    Aside from the obvious, Puljujarvi, I am interested in checking our Rasanen, Caggiula, Benson and Niemelainen amongst the new guys coming. I really like the Penticton tournament and wish I could attend this year.

    Isn’t Rasanen ultimately headed to a US college, which means an NHL training camp, unlike development camp, is taboo.

  88. stush18 says:

    Jethro Tull: I’ve commented on this before.Here’s what I found:

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-turnover-plus-minus/2015/

    I would draw your attention to the bottom of the list.BTW, Hall is a mediocre #664 with 9 more give-aways than take-aways.PK Subban leads list on Give-aways.

    Thanks. Doesn’t work well on my phone but I get the gist of it.

    Kinda goes to the point I was making. Most of the top of that list is populated with what I would call good defensive players.

  89. stush18 says:

    godot10: Isn’t Rasanen ultimately headed to a US college, which means an NHL training camp, unlike development camp, is taboo.

    Is ushl considered college? I believe that’s where he’s playing this year, with college next.

  90. dustrock says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Caramel Batman,

    Correct.The defensive value of forwards is primarily ranked on the basis of reputation.

    Except in the case of Bergeron.

  91. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: Isn’t Rasanen ultimately headed to a US college, which means an NHL training camp, unlike development camp, is taboo.

    A Finn going through NCAA for development? (The one option we DIDN’T discuss the other day!)

    *Pouzar’s head explodes*

    😉

  92. Caramel Batman says:

    stush18,

    In terms of all shots are not equal, this is true. There is a metric for that as well. Hall does slightly worse on absolute terms than O’Reilly, and the same in relative terms, while producing much more offense.

    You know who is legitimately good defensively?

    Patrice Bergeron and Mikko Koivu.

    As to the center point, it isn’t like Hall is playing with a center who is carrying him defensively. If Hall cheats for offense why don’t the Oilers give up more when he is on the ice?

    Answer: Hall does not, in fact, cheat for offense.

  93. godot10 says:

    stush18: Is ushl considered college? I believe that’s where he’s playing this year, with college next.

    Penny Oleksiak can’t accept Drake tickets as gifts, even though she has two more years of high school, because she wants to keep the option of a swimming scholarship at a US college open.

    Rasanen is ultimately going to a US college. The NCAA says you can’t go to an NHL training camp if you want to do play college hockey in the future.

  94. SumOil says:

    Does anyone know of any streams for world cup of hockey?

  95. godot10 says:

    Taylor Hall and Mike Babcock in the 20-teens are like Steve Yzerman and Mike Keenan in the nineties.

  96. JDï™ says:

    SumOil,

    Check here: https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLStreams/comments/52rt5u/wcoh_team_czech_republic_vs_team_north_america/

    That’s just for this afternoon’s game. Go up one link level for all game postings, but they don’t appear until 30 minutes before puck drop.

    There’s currently not many good streams so far, and the one I found is bringing the last inning of a blow-out Jays game. Good grief.

  97. SumOil says:

    JDï™,

    Thank you

  98. commonfan14 says:

    Babcock has decided that Team Canada can’t be beaten if they focus on totally shutting down the opponent and trust that their talent advantage will win out in any low-event game.

    Makes sense for any tournament with a single game elimination element, but it’s not fun to watch.

    That’s really unfortunate for this tournament, which isn’t very important and should put fun viewing above all else.

    I’m hoping TMac at least lets TNA keep going all-out, even if they end up going down in flames.

  99. Pouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: A Finn going through NCAA for development? (The one option we DIDN’T discuss the other day!)

    *Pouzar’s head explodes*

    No it’s the AHL or bust DUMMY!

    *drops gloves*

  100. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Folks, Taylor Hall ceased being an Oiler over two months ago… A new season begins tomorrow, with actual Oilers (well soon to be Oilers) hitting the bikes for physicals… Can we let it go? Like seriously we have three Oilers actually playing in the WC and all the talk is about a former Oiler who isn’t playing. Am I the only one who thinks that is kinda weird?

    Instead we should discuss Stauffer’s interview with Klefbom!

    Some great nuggets in there i tells ya.

    “Lots of people are going to have a little shock about how good he is.” (Klef discussing Adam Larsson)

    ““I think I am 100% for sure, I’ve been skating for how many weeks now, even months. I feel good. If it would have been a game tomorrow I would play for sure. I am more excited than ever. The body feels good. And the skates are good too. And we’ve got a real good medical staff that has helped me a lot.”

    These are very good things folks, very very good things!

  101. Pouzar says:

    JDï™:

    Bob Stauffer Verified account
    ‏@Bob_Stauffer


    Oscar Klefbom on @OilersNow ” I think I am 100% for sure, I’ve been skating for weeks, if it was a game tomorrow I would play for sure”

    He went on to say he’s hoping for 25 minutes per night.

    Giddyup.

    WOOT!

    The season hinges on this man’s health imo.

  102. Pouzar says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!:
    Folks, Taylor Hall ceased being an Oiler over two months ago… A new season begins tomorrow, with actual Oilers (well soon to be Oilers) hitting the bikes for physicals… Can we let it go? Like seriously we have three Oilers actually playing in the WC and all the talk is about a former Oiler who isn’t playing. Am I the only one who thinks that is kinda weird?

    Instead we should discuss Stauffer’s interview with Klefbom!

    Some great nuggets in there i tells ya.

    “Lots of people are going to have a little shock about how good he is.” (Klef discussing Adam Larsson)

    ““I think I am 100% for sure, I’ve been skating for how many weeks now, even months. I feel good. If it would have been a game tomorrow I would play for sure. I am more excited than ever. The body feels good. And the skates are good too. And we’ve got a real good medical staff that has helped me a lot.”

    These are very good things folks, very very good things!

    Can I get a “WOOT WOOT”!!!

  103. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Pouzar,

    WOOT WOOT!

  104. stush18 says:

    Caramel Batman:
    stush18,

    In terms of all shots are not equal, this is true.There is a metric for that as well.Hall does slightly worse on absolute terms than O’Reilly, and the same in relative terms, while producing much more offense.

    You know who is legitimately good defensively?

    Patrice Bergeron and Mikko Koivu.

    As to the center point, it isn’t like Hall is playing with a center who is carrying him defensively.If Hall cheats for offense why don’t the Oilers give up more when he is on the ice?

    Answer:Hall does not, in fact, cheat for offense.

    I never said he cheated for offense. I point to his turnovers as a legitimate point to consider, because it seems contrary to common thought. He is an elite player in terms of shots generated. He is also “elite” at giving the puck away.

    All shots are not equal. While I don’t agree with ruckibears math, I agree with his hdsc areas.

  105. JDï™ says:

    Pouzar: *drops gloves*

    picks up folding chair

    Pouzar: Can I get a “WOOT WOOT”!!!

    lowers chair, but tightens grip

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!

  106. Jethro Tull says:

    Pouzar: No it’s the AHL or bust DUMMY!

    *drops gloves*

    WOOT WOOT!

  107. Caramel Batman says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!,

    Because of the trade I would rather New Jersey make the playoffs than the Oilers. So no, I will not let it go, and I find the suggestion that I, or anyone should, insulting.

  108. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    Klef, Larsson, McDavid, Tablot.

    All of these players need to play 70+ games each or I fear things turn out like always.

    EDIT – make that 55+ for Talbot.

  109. Jethro Tull says:

    1-0 Czechs.

  110. Little Poteet says:

    Bringing the conversation back to what LT loves – prospects!
    Is Ethan Bear the RD pp guy the team is looking for? Not now obviously, but any dman going a point-per-game for 12 months is impressive, no matter the age. Even if his defensive ceiling is a #6 (i know nothing about the quality of his defensive play), with Larsson ahead of him for the foreseeable future and the competent middle pairing guys currently on the roster, he could slot in nicely within 2 years, have the shelter he needs and be a solid contributor. This young man’s progress the story of the oilers defense going forward. Him turning out to be everything he thinks he can be (as shown by his tough negotiating for his ELC) would solve the oilers defense together with Klef, Larsson and Davidson for a long time

  111. Little Poteet says:

    stush18,

    USHL is considered to be sufficiently amatuer so as to no interfere with a player wanting to play NCAA. Many minor hockey leagues are basically semi-pro leagues as I understand it, so the NCAA won’t allow those guys to play. ( I think that’s stupid btw, I love that the CIS lets the WHL guys go to university and play hockey, let’s the guys get quality education after feeling like they persued their dream as far as it could go)

  112. delooper says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!:
    Folks, Taylor Hall ceased being an Oiler over two months ago… A new season begins tomorrow, with actual Oilers (well soon to be Oilers) hitting the bikes for physicals… Can we let it go? Like seriously we have three Oilers actually playing in the WC and all the talk is about a former Oiler who isn’t playing. Am I the only one who thinks that is kinda weird?

    Yeah, it feels like every thread since the trade has ultimately been a Taylor Hall sulk thread. It’s getting more difficult to read this blog, and the comments. Sadly.

  113. stush18 says:

    Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons:
    Klef, Larsson, McDavid, Tablot.

    All of these players need to play 70+ games each or I fear things turn out like always.

    EDIT – make that 55+ for Talbot.

    Honestly I don’t think we would have been near as bad last year if the team had only had to endure leave average injuries.

    Our best players at every position were injured for long stretches last year.

    Won’t be surprised if the oilers are in the top teams of the west this year

  114. Side says:

    Caramel Batman:
    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!,

    Because of the trade I would rather New Jersey make the playoffs than the Oilers.So no, I will not let it go, and I find the suggestion that I, or anyone should, insulting.

    Which you be less insulted if someone said anyone who doesn’t get over the trade is an “illiterate, inbred, moron.”?

  115. kinger_OIL says:

    Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons:
    Klef, Larsson, McDavid, Tablot.

    All of these players need to play 70+ games each or I fear things turn out like always.

    EDIT – make that 55+ for Talbot.

    – This is a good list. I’d say all of:
    1) Davidson
    2) Klef+Larsson (I’m assuming they are a pairing)
    3) RNH (if we don’t have a 2nd C: bye-bye)
    4) McD

    Need to be playing 70+ games for even a chance at playoffs

    – One can’t dismiss RNH Davidson and Klef’s previous injuries. All three have not been able to demonstrate Lucic like showing up for every game consistency.

  116. Caramel Batman says:

    delooper: Yeah, it feels like every thread since the trade has ultimately been a Taylor Hall sulk thread.It’s getting more difficult to read this blog, and the comments.Sadly.

    That’s because, as Ryan Batty wisely pointed out, people like you keep obnoxiously telling everyone to get over it.

    Like I said, warring tribes.

  117. VanIsleOil says:

    delooper: Yeah, it feels like every thread since the trade has ultimately been a Taylor Hall sulk thread.It’s getting more difficult to read this blog, and the comments.Sadly.

    Lately, it has been like this with Hall.
    https://tinyurl.com/z6ycluj

  118. G Money says:

    commonfan14: Babcock has decided that Team Canada can’t be beaten if they focus on totally shutting down the opponent and trust that their talent advantage will win out in any low-event game.

    Makes sense for any tournament with a single game elimination element, but it’s not fun to watch.

    That’s really unfortunate for this tournament, which isn’t very important and should put fun viewing above all else.

    Hidden in the odd blend of intelligent conversation and tribal warfare (with one sticky fellow prominent in both) is this gem, which is reality.

    Taylor Hall wasn’t making this team under any circumstances, that was obvious from the first roster. He can help the team in a major way (as could PK), but neither helps in the way the coach wants them to help.

    C’est tu.

    Let us move on to consider what the team might be able to accomplish with Lucic and Larsson, because Taylor Hall, as badly missed as he will be, is gone and he ain’t coming back.

  119. Bruce McCurdy says:

    G Money:
    Heh heh, “don’t listen to old people” and then we’ve got Bruce up first on LT’s show, which is I’m pretty sure the only two guys older than me round these parts!

    Thank you. Thank you very much.

    Cough*fuckoff*cough

  120. G Money says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    *thumbs up*

    *clutches arthritic thumb in agony*

  121. JDï™ says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Cough cough

    Sounds like it will soon be one.

  122. linkfromhyrule says:

    stush18: Honestly I don’t think we would have been near as bad last year if the team had only had to endure leave average injuries.

    Our best players at every position were injured for long stretches last year.

    Won’t be surprised if the oilers are in the top teams of the west this year

    Agreed, although I think 3rd in the division is much more realistic. Central is just too good. In my opinion, San Jose and LAK are the only virtual locks for playoffs this season in our division. Barring injuries (again), we are competing against Arizona, Anaheim, and Calgary for that 3rd spot.

    Anaheim is likely to take a step back under Carlyle, and they lack a lot of the depth they used to have thanks to BM. Seriously wtf is going on with that franchise
    Calgary is likely the biggest threat to us. Winning the Battle of Alberta is key, and it should actually be a battle this year.
    Arizona is young, bit of a wild card. Can’t see them as a playoff team though.
    Vancouver is really not great, Sedins are another year older. I love the direction Benning is taking that franchise . 😀

    Despite how depressing this off season has been, I’m really looking forward to this season. Let’s hope for the best and have it turn out differently for once!

  123. npanciroli says:

    Caramel Batman,

    I worded this poorly initially. How come you would prefer NJ to make the playoffs over Edmonton because of the trade?

    I want them to win so badly.

  124. Woodguy says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Caramel Batman,

    Correct.The defensive value of forwards is primarily ranked on the basis of reputation.

    The year that Ryan Kesler won the Selke the QoC among C’s on VAN was: (hardest to easiest)

    Maholtra
    H.Sedin
    Kesler
    Hodgson

    Yup.

  125. Woodguy says:

    When two tribes go to war

    One is all that you can score

    (Score no more, score no more)

  126. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Woodguy: The year that Ryan Kesler won the Selke the QoC among C’s on VAN was: (hardest to easiest)

    Maholtra
    H.Sedin
    Kesler
    Hodgson

    Yup.

    I believe that Toews is constantly in the mix for the trophy because:

    1. He’s good enough defensively
    2. He scores, but not that much, and
    3. He’s really serious and quiet

    Honestly if Jonathan Toews had the personality of PK Subban, he wouldn’t be in the mix. Frankly if I had to pick one Chicago forward as being exceptional defensively, I’d probably pick Hossa. That is based, of course, on 0 statistical analysis of any kind.

  127. Bruce McCurdy says:

    G Money:

    Let us move on to consider what the team might be able to accomplish with Lucic and Larsson, because Taylor Hall, as badly missed as he will be, is gone and he ain’t coming back.

    Spoken with the wisdom of an (ahem) elder. Are we going to talk about the team that is or the team that might have been?

    Very much looking forward to actual games being played.

  128. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Screw off Polak you hack

  129. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Remember when Nurse speed-bagged him?

  130. Bruce McCurdy says:

    (Context) Polak just crosschecked McDavid into the end boards from behind. McDavid is OK but he felt it.

  131. vinotintazo says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    (Context) Polak just crosschecked McDavid into the end boards from behind. McDavid is OK but he felt it.

    ughhhhh

  132. stevezie says:

    Woodguy,

    Relax.

  133. G Money says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    Well, plus he single-handedly won all those Stanley Cups at an early age.

    He’s a terrific player, no question, but I think because of that, his reputation will always outlive his actual value (and especially his cap value … woof).

    What’s most interesting about Toews is how fast his skills appear to be eroding. It’s no longer a one year thing, it’s a three year trend. He’s gone from out of this world to very very pedestrian.

    His EV p/60 last year was 1.58, tied with Parise. And also such stellar scorers as Cogliano, Dzingel, and Palmieri.

    Unless he’s been hanging out with Stoll and Richards, it’s tough to fathom what’s going on there. But given he’s now a $10.5M cap player, the Hawks better hope he figures it out quick.

  134. Bruce McCurdy says:

    So Auston Matthews crosschecks Polak right in the aftermath like a good teammate does, causing Polak to fall awkwardly on to the already-prone McDavid. Thanks.

  135. JDï™ says:


    Bob McKenzie Verified account
    ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

    NHL goalies will be wearing new streamlined pants to start season but new streamlined chest protector/uppers not ready to start this season.

    Well they got something done on the equipment front.

  136. frjohnk says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    (Context) Polak just crosschecked McDavid into the end boards from behind. McDavid is OK but he felt it.

    Id liked to see Polak try that when Nurse and Lucic are on the ice.

  137. Woodguy says:

    stevezie:
    Woodguy,

    Relax.

    Don’t do it

  138. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Gostisbehere in full Jultz mode there.

  139. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Gary Galley calling the white team “Czechoslovakia”. Careful Gary you’re dating yourself.

  140. Bruce McCurdy says:

    frjohnk: Id liked to see Polak try that when Nurse and Lucic are on the ice.

    I don’t think their presence would deter him one iota from administering the initial hit. That’s his game

  141. Woodguy says:

    G Money:
    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    Well, plus he single-handedly won all those Stanley Cups at an early age.

    He’s a terrific player, no question, but I think because of that, his reputation will always outlive his actual value (and especially his cap value … woof).

    What’s most interesting about Toews is how fast his skills appear to be eroding.It’s no longer a one year thing, it’s a three year trend.He’s gone from out of this world to very very pedestrian.

    His EV p/60 last year was 1.58, tied with Parise. And also such stellar scorers as Cogliano, Dzingel, and Palmieri.

    Unless he’s been hanging out with Stoll and Richards, it’s tough to fathom what’s going on there.But given he’s now a $10.5M cap player, the Hawks better hope he figures it out quick.

    He could put up 1.00pt/60 and no one would say boo about it and not metion he’s making about 3-5 times more than he should Because Intangibles.

    My favorite retorts when someone is arguing “intangibles” is;

    “Well his intangibles better be off the charts good because what is tangible is pretty shitty”

  142. SwedishPoster says:

    Czech might be outshot but this is how they’ve played for as long as I can remember. The other team always feel like they were the better team and “On a normal night we should have won” But when you look closer it’s not really true and you were outsmarted by what was actually the better team. When they gel as a team they are so tricky to beat. And their goalie always looks like a superstar (when they had an ACTUAL superstar like Hasek they were so freaking annoying).

  143. JDï™ says:

    Well Faksa!

  144. SwedishPoster says:

    And there you go 2-0

  145. JDï™ says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Gostisbehere in full Jultz mode there.

    Looks like he’s shaken off the influence.

  146. godot10 says:

    G Money:
    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    Well, plus he single-handedly won all those Stanley Cups at an early age.

    He’s a terrific player, no question, but I think because of that, his reputation will always outlive his actual value (and especially his cap value … woof).

    What’s most interesting about Toews is how fast his skills appear to be eroding.It’s no longer a one year thing, it’s a three year trend.He’s gone from out of this world to very very pedestrian.

    His EV p/60 last year was 1.58, tied with Parise. And also such stellar scorers as Cogliano, Dzingel, and Palmieri.

    Unless he’s been hanging out with Stoll and Richards, it’s tough to fathom what’s going on there.But given he’s now a $10.5M cap player, the Hawks better hope he figures it out quick.

    Toews and Hossa were taking on all the tough opposition, with a series of nobodies on LW, while Kane was allowed to have fun. And remember, Kruger was hurt for much of the year, which made Toews defensive load even heavier.

    Context.

  147. Mr DeBakey says:

    stevezie: I resemble that remark.

    You always think my comments are about you.
    Don’t you?

    How were things at Saratoga this year?

  148. Yeti says:

    Bruce McCurdy: So Auston Matthews crosschecks Polak right in the aftermath like a good teammate does, causing Polak to fall awkwardly on to the already-prone McDavid. Thanks.

    Did you miss bitching about the refs, Bruce, because you’re already in midseason form! 🙂

  149. PeOiler says:

    Hey there LT, is “according to Hoyle” in reference to the sci-fi author, or something else that flew way over my head?

    (my apologies if it’s a joke that gets un-funny when explained)

  150. wheatnoil says:

    I took G Money’s advice from yesterday’s thread to try to account for roster make-up in my look at AHL deployment.

    I made a weighted eTOI/game for each age range as a baseline across the AHL. That’s here…

    https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/776175879374241792

    Then I compared Bakersfield to it.

    https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/776179238135226369

    That spike in 20-21 year olds appear to be driven by simply having so many of them on the roster. On average, they don’t play more per game than you’d expect. In fact, they play less than league average by about a minute.

    Meanwhile, the Oilers play the 22-25 year olds about 1.5 minutes a game less than league average. The 29-30 year olds play about 4-5 minutes more than league average.

    So the spike at 20-21 years old is roster make-up. The spike for guys in the late 20s and early 30s is deployment.

    (By the way, the peak in the 18-19 year olds was them running the hell out of Draisaitl for 6 games.)

  151. JDï™ says:

    PeOiler,

    It’s just an old timey saying, like ‘onion belt’ or ‘Matlock’.

  152. Mr DeBakey says:

    PeOiler:
    Hey there LT, is “according to Hoyle” in reference to the sci-fi author, or something else that flew way over my head?

    (my apologies if it’s a joke that gets un-funny when explained)

    Its no joke.
    Hoyle collected and published the rules to Card Games many decades ago.
    He was Mr Authority Figure for cards.
    If you were wondering about something, the answer was “According to Hoyle…”

  153. PeOiler says:

    Thanks guys, I learn something new every day.

    Ive been looking for a copy of the book ‘Rockets in Ursa Major’ for a few years now, and reading the name Hoyle has pulled my search back onto the front-burner.

  154. Pete says:

    Been reading this excellent blog for eight years, maybe nine, I forget. A long, long time anyway. The comment threads used to be arguably the best Oilers-related reads online, maybe the best hockey reads. Now they’re not, and I skip most of them. I suspect I’m far from the only one of the old readers/posters who’s sick of a few of these morons.

    Maybe it’s time to take out the trash again. Occasional post deletions don’t seem to be getting the message across.

  155. stevezie says:

    Caramel Batman,

    Hope i didn’t come off as preachy. Love your posts.

  156. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Yeti: Did you miss bitching about the refs, Bruce, because you’re already in midseason form!

    I’m not bitching about the refs, this is about that bastard Polak. The lack of a call wasn’t even worthy of mention.

  157. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Mr DeBakey: Its no joke.
    Hoyle collected and published the rules to Card Games many decades ago.
    He was Mr Authority Figure for cards.
    If you were wondering about something, the answer was “According to Hoyle…”

    “Many decades” as in 25-30. Edmond Hoyle lived from 1672-1769. His rules on cards were considered authoritative, to the degree that the term “according to Hoyle” refers more generally to an authoritative person or source on pretty much any subject. That phrase is even older than I am, I recall my Mum saying it on occasion way way back. Her version was “that’s not according to Hoyle!” when something didn’t pass the smell test.

  158. Mr DeBakey says:

    Bruce McCurdy: “Many decades” as in 25-30. Edmond Hoyle lived from 1672-1769.

    Hmmm, decades may not have been wrong, but it sure as hell wasn’t right.
    I guess I shudda said ” Back before I was born…”

  159. Lowetide says:

    PeOiler:
    Hey there LT, is “according to Hoyle” in reference to the sci-fi author, or something else that flew way over my head?

    (my apologies if it’s a joke that gets un-funny when explained)

    My Dad always used according to Hoyle to give weight to a specific view or procedure. He would say ‘according to Hoyle, there should be a stud (hidden in the wall) right about…….here’ and damned if he didn’t get it right most of the time. Back in the olden days, houses didn’t necessarily have studs in what we might call consistent gaps. 🙂

  160. G Money says:

    PeOiler,

    It’s interesting that you know Fred Hoyle as a sci fi author.

    I’ve only ever read his astronomy work (if I recall correctly, he authored the textbook for an astronomy course I took in undergrad). Whatever that textbook was, it still sits on the shelves in my mom’s home in Edmonton.

    Hoyle is generally credited with coining the term “Big Bang theory”.

  161. stevezie says:

    Mr DeBakey,

    Well, my horse won, so i got that goin’ for me, which is nice.

  162. BONE207 says:

    People who think Hall is bad defensively, or even average, are illiterate, inbred, morons.

    The world as seen through your eyes

    Smart
    Caramel Batman

    Inbred Morons
    BONE207
    GMoney
    WoodGuy
    Centre of Attention
    WheatNOil
    LT?

    Inbred morons seem to be the new normal?

  163. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil:
    I took G Money’s advice from yesterday’s thread to try to account for roster make-up in my look at AHL deployment.

    I made a weighted eTOI/game for each age range as a baseline across the AHL. That’s here…

    https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/776175879374241792

    Then I compared Bakersfield to it.

    https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/776179238135226369

    That spike in 20-21 year olds appear to be driven by simply having so many of them on the roster. On average, they don’t play more per game than you’d expect. In fact, they play less than league average by about a minute.

    Meanwhile, the Oilers play the 22-25 year olds about 1.5 minutes a game less than league average. The 29-30 year olds play about 4-5 minutes more than league average.

    So the spike at 20-21 years old is roster make-up. The spike for guys in the late 20s and early 30s is deployment.

    (By the way, the peak in the 18-19 year olds was them running the hell out of Draisaitl for 6 games.)

    This is fantastic information, WheatnOil. Thanks for doing this!

  164. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: My Dad always used according to Hoyle to give weight to a specific view or procedure. He would say ‘according to Hoyle, there should be a stud (hidden in the wall) right about…….here’ and damned if he didn’t get it right most of the time. Back in the olden days, houses didn’t necessarily have studs in what we might call consistent gaps.

    pretty sure “according to hoyle” refers to official rules for card games. i think i even have a book titled that somewhere.

  165. russ99 says:

    Just because there are no good defensive metrics to quantify forwards’ play without the puck doesn’t mean quality of play for forwards without the puck should be dismissed.

    People look at the Cup Penguins for justification for playing firewagon hockey, I look at the Cup Penguins to point out that 5-man tenacity without the puck to deny chances and get the puck back is why they were so effective going the other way.

    You can make a strong case that the Oilers finished so low in the standings the last few years is because at best 1-3 of the 5 players on the ice 5×5 at any given time played this way, which equates to less good 5×5 chances going the other way and more strain on our Goalkeeper to stand on his head and bail out poor own-zone play.

  166. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia: pretty sure “according to hoyle” refers to official rules for card games.i think i even have a book titled that somewhere.

    Yes. I was giving my frame of reference, but Hoyle rules I believe can be found for most card games, etc.

    http://www.hoylegaming.com/rules/

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