PLANES ARE GOING UP, PLANES ARE COMING DOWN

The problem is that we don’t have all of the information about Jesse Puljujarvi, and that leads to reactions based on what we do know. On the face of what we know to be true, it was foolhardy to let game 40 pass, wait a heartbeat, and then send the young man down. It will cost extra in cap dollars when the young Finn hits age 25, as a contract that might have got him through for $4.0M now may cost $6.0M—and it is possible that it could be more depending on how JP progresses.

What I don’t know, and it is fair to assume no one does beyond the Oilers, is why they did it. Seems to me that there was no obvious reason to lose the year, and that must mean there are other issues (language, adjustment, family, maturity) at play. Online, you will see reams and reams of ‘Peter Chiarelli is a crazy man’ and that may well be, but it seems illogical to hammer this subject beyond acknowledging it is highly unusual.

What I think we can say, with authority, is this: The Edmonton Oilers do not have a strong track record in the area of contract management, and that this is an unusual bit of handling. Beyond that, I expect your reaction to today’s news will depend on how much damage or help you feel Peter Chiarelli has delivered since arriving in Edmonton.

PULJUJARVI IN BAKERSFIELD

The next issue at hand is this one: Who is the young man going to play with in Bakersfield? Anton Lander and Anton Slepyshev are both in Edmonton, leaving (skilled men) Taylor Beck, Jujhar Khaira and Ryan Hamilton. That probably means Khaira and Puljujarvi will be on the same line, since Khaira is the only center.

Ideally, you would see Puljujarvi placed in the best possible circumstances, and that may mean playing LW with Beck on the other side and Khaira in the middle. The Condors play tomorrow, Thursday and Saturday, I imagine Thursday will be the first game we see the Finn—a home game against Stockton.

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT IN BAKERSFIELD?

Let’s assume the instructions to Gerry Fleming are to play the living daylights out of Puljujarvi, and let’s say it is going to be 20 games at 18 minutes a night (360 minutes in total). Using JP’s NHL time (318 minutes) and the NHL-to-AHL ratio (Rob Vollman’s) we should expect about 20 points in those 20 games. If JP reaches 20 points in 20 games, his NHLE would be 39 points. I think that is a fair guess at reasonable.

ANTON SLEPYSHEV

The Russian went 9gp, 3-7-10 (works out to 82gp, 13-30-43 NHLE). His rookie AHL season (15gp, 2-2-4) resumes and I hope we see him in a substantial role. I have been impressed with Todd McLellan’s usage of graduating minor leaguers—they get right into the lineup and play substantial roles.

JONAS GUSTAVSSON

Is on waivers. That was bound to happen, and I think we see Laurent Brossoit tomorrow. We will discuss in the 8:30 GDT post tomorrow morning, but I do like the waiver idea, too.

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142 Responses to "PLANES ARE GOING UP, PLANES ARE COMING DOWN"

  1. YKOil says:

    Given that

    1. there is no practical difference in maturity/language/la-la-la development difference in the timespan that covers 39 games through past 40 games; and
    2. there HAS to be, and IS, a cost to losing a full-year of RFA status

    this was, barring some miraculous side deal – which it is hard to say the CBA would even allow – horrible player asset management.

  2. jp says:

    They must be making a waiver claim (or trade), or they would have called Brossoit straight up, no?

  3. Lowetide says:

    YKOil:
    Given that

    1. there is no practical difference in maturity/language/la-la-la development difference in the timespan that covers 39 games through past 40 games; and
    2. there HAS to be, and IS, a cost to losing a full-year of RFA status

    this was, barring some miraculous side deal – which it is hard to say the CBA would even allow – horrible player asset management.

    I think that argument has a great deal of merit. If I recall, the period around game 40 coincided with Christmas and a visit from his family from Finland. Was it foolish to lose negotiating ground that could be $2 million or more down the line? It may be the case that Edmonton management felt that it was worth it. I cannot say because I do not know the young man.

  4. slopitch says:

    jp,

    Waiting a day saves them like 2k? Man I wish I made 2k a day.

  5. Lowetide says:

    jp:
    They must be making a waiver claim (or trade), or they would have called Brossoit straight up, no?

    It may be just paper. Brossoit recalled but cannot be placed on the roster until 10am tomorrow.

  6. blainer says:

    Does LB warrant a recall with a 909% save percentage over Ellis who is at a 923% save percentage and was a Chia signing.

    I dunno.. suspect that is what the topic of the night is between TMc and Chia.

  7. JDï™ says:

    http://theahl.com/transactions?f_season_id=51&f_team_id=402&team=402&season=54&resultsPerPage=50

    Descheneau (RW) recalled from Norfolk, Benik (LW) sent down. With the addition of Pulie, hmmm…

  8. YKOil says:

    Lowetide: I think that argument has a great deal of merit. If I recall, the period around game 40 coincided with Christmas and a visit from his family from Finland. Was it foolish to lose negotiating ground that could be $2 million or more down the line? It may be the case that Edmonton management felt that it was worth it. I cannot say because I do not know the young man.

    The value of time. In this case 5 years or so to PC. Were I an owner, and something GREAT did not come out of this act of kindness… I would have a hard time justifying the continued employment of a GM who had just cost me as much as $2 million a year.

    Or more if JP decides to take a quick bridge and then wait out a year in Finland to get to UFA status more quickly.

    Reinhart, Hall, JP RFA year(s)… who cares about the future right? Let’s get that wildcard spot now!

    Victory!

  9. Lowetide says:

    YKOil: The value of time.In this case 5 years or so to PC.Were I an owner, and something GREAT did not come out of this act of kindness… I would have a hard time justifying the continued employment of a GM who had just cost me as much as $2 million a year.

    Or more if JP decides to take a quick bridge and then wait out a year in Finland to get to UFA status more quickly.

    Reinhart, Hall, JP RFA year(s)… who cares about the future right?Let’s get that wildcard spot now!

    Victory!

    Well, and I am absolutely overstepping my knowledge here, it seems reasonable the owner would be aware of this at some level.

  10. Glass says:

    Alright guys, I’ve solved the RW problem.

    Step 1: Trade Pouliot for Strome.
    Step 2: Sign a veteran RW as a stop gap.
    Step 3: Sign a RW college free agent.

  11. Pink Socks says:

    YKOil: The value of time.In this case 5 years or so to PC.Were I an owner, and something GREAT did not come out of this act of kindness… I would have a hard time justifying the continued employment of a GM who had just cost me as much as $2 million a year.

    Or more if JP decides to take a quick bridge and then wait out a year in Finland to get to UFA status more quickly.

    Reinhart, Hall, JP RFA year(s)… who cares about the future right?Let’s get that wildcard spot now!

    Victory!

    Right, but, Katz obviously is privy to things such as this and would have signed off. Not to mention that after this act of kindness, I hardly see JP taking a quick bridge and going to Finland to try and cash bigger in his first UFA.

  12. Mustard Tiger says:

    Would it kill Chiarelli to do an interview and calm the hysteria? Although maybe they can’t discuss the ‘handshake agreement’ they used to burn the year.

  13. Pink Socks says:

    I don’t know why, but I just am not all that worked up about burning a year of RFA. Investing into a blue chip prospect is not a bad thing, and if the idea is to give him 20 games in Bakersfield and then recalling him, the 39 vs 40 game marker doesn’t matter anyways.

  14. Pink Socks says:

    Mustard Tiger:
    Would it kill Chiarelli to do an interview and calm the hysteria? Although maybe they can’t discuss the ‘handshake agreement’ they used to burn the year.

    He will dodge it for sure, a handshake agreement is just that, and I’m sure there is another handshake agreement on the back end when JP can be extended summer 2018.

  15. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: It may be just paper. Brossoit recalled but cannot be placed on the roster until 10am tomorrow.

    He’s not on the AHL transactions lists yet.

    JP and Sleppy are listed as yesterday.

    Today has a winger swap with Norfolk.

    Date Player Team Transaction
    2017-01-09 Joey Benik (LW) Bakersfield DEL Returned on loan to Norfolk (ECHL)
    2017-01-09 Jaedon Descheneau (RW) Bakersfield ADD Recalled from loan to Norfolk (ECHL)
    2017-01-08 Jesse Puljujarvi (RW) Bakersfield ADD Returned on loan from Edmonton (NHL)
    2017-01-08 Anton Slepyshev (LW) Bakersfield DEL Recalled from loan by Edmonton (NHL)

    Bob mentioned on his show that Gus can back up on Tuesday as he hasn’t been assigned to the AHL, he’s just been put on waivers for that purpose.

    They can assign him after the game.

    Bob also used his low “conspiratorial voice” to suggest Peter is working on something else that “might” happen.

    Same voice he used when he said the Oilers were “looking at a RHD out of the EC who hasn’t been mentioned by anyone” a few days before Hall-Larsson went down.

    The game is afoot!

  16. Lowetide says:

    Pink Socks:
    I don’t know why, but I just am not all that worked up about burning a year of RFA.Investing into a blue chip prospect is not a bad thing, and if the idea is to give him 20 games in Bakersfield and then recalling him, the 39 vs 40 game marker doesn’t matter anyways.

    Oh, I think there is reason for concern here. By the time JP is 25, $2 million (as an example) could be enormous for a Stanley run at the deadline.

  17. N64 says:

    Mustard Tiger:
    Would it kill Chiarelli to do an interview and calm the hysteria? Although maybe they can’t discuss the ‘handshake agreement’ they used to burn the year.

    ~ Well, he could calm the hysteria behind 39 games by revealing that they regret playing hardball with Drai and that Drai’s agent phones daily to spell out what the hardball is gonna look like coming back…. Nevermind. ~

    LT is right. We do not know and won’t.

  18. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: He’s not on the AHL transactions lists yet.

    JP and Sleppy are listed as yesterday.

    Today has a winger swap with Norfolk.

    DatePlayerTeamTransaction
    2017-01-09Joey Benik (LW)BakersfieldDELReturned on loan to Norfolk (ECHL)
    2017-01-09Jaedon Descheneau (RW)BakersfieldADDRecalled from loan to Norfolk (ECHL)
    2017-01-08Jesse Puljujarvi (RW)BakersfieldADDReturned on loan from Edmonton (NHL)
    2017-01-08Anton Slepyshev (LW)BakersfieldDELRecalled from loan by Edmonton (NHL)

    Bob mentioned on his show that Gus can back up on Tuesday as he hasn’t been assigned to the AHL, he’s just been put on waivers for that purpose.

    They can assign him after the game.

    Bob also used his low “conspiratorial voice” to suggest Peter is working on something else that “might” happen.

    Same voice he used when he said the Oilers were “looking at a RHD out of the EC who hasn’t been mentioned by anyone” a few days before Hall-Larsson went down.

    The game is afoot!

    Interesting. Condors play tomorrow night, so Brossoit may play that game, Gustavsson backing up here. If there is something afoot, I will guess it is a LHD for a RW, just for fun.

  19. Pink Socks says:

    Lowetide: Oh, I think there is reason for concern here. By the time JP is 25, $2 million (as an example) could be enormous for a Stanley run at the deadline.

    I guess my lack of concern is that there has to be some sort of a handshake on the back end. I just can’t fathom any scenario where PC just does this for the sake of being a nice guy, there has to be a payoff as the end result that benefits the organization in some way shape or form… right? If there isn’t, then it is one of the most bizarre and foolish decisions made by any NHL management team. Maybe I am giving PC too much credit, but I do think he is pretty slick and very meticulous in his decision making.

  20. Bruce Wayne says:

    It makes no sense for them to do this in an attempt to curry favour with the player and agent. Is there any precedent of an NHL team going out of their way to give up this kind of leverage?

    Sports leagues bargain hard, even going so far as to sacrifice entire seasons of play, just to maintain or increase the years of contractual control they have over their players, and now the Oilers, out of the goodness of their heart, are just giving it away for free. That makes no sense.

    Compare this to Steve Yzerman, who played hardball with Drouin all the way down the line. He still has the player, the player is still (so it seems) happy, and he gets him for less money and for more years.

    I fail to see the upside. It won’t save them money, and it doesn’t make the player a better player. Hell, it doesn’t even make the player happier over the long term. If the player plays well and the team does well, he will be happy. If it goes sidewise, none of this is going to help.

    And it is all so arbitrary. Chiarelli is perfectly capable of running someone out of town, or sending the next guy to the minors, for some mystical reason Puljujarvi gets the special reason.

    And note this is different than promising Benning and Caggiula they would be on the roster in order to get them to sign. That’s good business, and having made the promise he should honour it, but there is no reason to make such a promise to a draft pick.

  21. boxman says:

    Clearly the Oilers, because you learn from your mistakes, will know the ins and outs on JPs contract so logically there has to be a reason they allowed 40 games and then pulled the trigger. So …… ??

  22. DBO says:

    Puljujarvi played centre in a few of the games he played with Finland at the under 18s and a few other tournaments. Would it make sense to see how he does as a RH centre? In our conference wouldn’t it be better then Drake? With Leon playing 1 RW, giving him premo 1st line offensive minutes in the minors as a C, allows his speed, size and defensive awareness to flourish and then he could step into a 3 line unicorn scoring set up in the bigs with some solid two way wingers.

  23. Scungilli says:

    Bruce Wayne: but there is no reason to make such a promise to a draft pick

    Goodwill. It’s a gamble but JP is a much higher level prospect than the college men. Chiarelli has a gambling streak, and if it did come down to ‘them’ wanting him in Europe for cash and the Oilers wanting him here for fast tracking to Connor’s RW, the dice get rolled. 7 years is a LONG time in the NHL. Things could look completely different then than now.

  24. Professor Q says:

    Lots of trades today in the OHL.

    London has acquired forward Dante Salituro from the Ottawa 67’s as well as defenseman Mitchell Vande Sompel from the Oshawa Generals. They’ve also acquired forward Mitchell Stephens from Saginaw Spirit (and gave up A LOT for him; all of them, really).

    Damn. I was hoping for Niemeläinen…

    Maybe this is around the time where we finally see where Oilers prospects end up? Anyone else have news?

  25. N64 says:

    Bruce Wayne: but there is no reason to make such a promise to a CHL draft pick

    Ftfy.

    Sometimes you don’t want a player to get an extra year in before the next deal.

  26. Lowetide says:

    Pink Socks:
    I don’t know why, but I just am not all that worked up about burning a year of RFA.Investing into a blue chip prospect is not a bad thing, and if the idea is to give him 20 games in Bakersfield and then recalling him, the 39 vs 40 game marker doesn’t matter anyways.

    The other thing to mention in this regard is that he probably gets called up in 20 games. I think JP is back before the end of the regular season.

  27. Professor Q says:

    Also: apparently there is worry that Adidas will scrap the third jerseys next season. I didn’t read far enough to see if that was only for next season and they’d restructure them afterwards, but it really seems odd that they wouldn’t capitalise on that revenue stream.

    I really hope this isn’t the end of our orange jerseys. I love them, and would love to see an Oilers version of what the Condors wore during the Outdoor Classic.

  28. voxwah says:

    I bet the 40 game mark and burning that extra UFA year was part of the deal having Jesse play in North America this season.

    He could have made WAY more money playing in Finland this year. What incentive would there be for him to just come over and possibly be in the AHL all season making a tiny salary.

    I’m sure the deal was. Play in North America. We guarantee you 40 games of NHL salary and to burn off the extra year of UFA eligibility. If you are playing great we will keep you up but if you need some time you will be sent down for the rest of the season to the AHL with a possible call up if things go well.

    Tha way he gets a 40 game paycheque for sure, a better contract situation in the future and the Oilers get to develop him here in North America.

    That has to be the logic behind it. It’s really the only explaination for waiting 40 games. It’s not like Todd and Peter don’t know about the 40 games.

  29. Scungilli says:

    “What I think we can say, with authority, is this: The Edmonton Oilers do not have a strong track record in the area of contract management, and that this is an unusual bit of handling.”

    I read this a lot from at places. To say this means Lowe is running the show still. I think whatever happens now shouldn’t be connected with the past but put fully on Bob Nicholson, Chiarelli and TMac as he claimed to have influence as the two hung out all the time with families away and talked about everything. Or make the claim there hasn’t effectively been a management change. These delineations
    are important to the correct direction of the argument.

  30. Bruce Wayne says:

    Pink Socks: I guess my lack of concern is that there has to be some sort of a handshake on the back end. I just can’t fathom any scenario where PC just does this for the sake of being a nice guy, there has to be a payoff as the end result that benefits the organization in some way shape or form… right?If there isn’t, then it is one of the most bizarre and foolish decisions made by any NHL management team.Maybe I am giving PC too much credit, but I do think he is pretty slick and very meticulous in his decision making.

    There is zero chance that there is a handshake on the back end. Not only is it not enforceable, but it isn’t possible to conceptualize it. What do you imagine they agreed to? It can’t be a flat number, that requires knowing how the next years play out (on both sides), it can’t be some percentage discount, because then the agent just negotiates for a higher flat number. The idea is impossible in principle and in practice.

    What is possible, even likely, is that this was the condition to get him to come over from Finland this year. This is an absurd price to pay, even though it is clearly what happened, since the weight of the evidence indicates that Europeans develop better in their post draft years by staying in Europe.

  31. Professor Q says:

    voxwah,

    Although wasn’t it the famous and lauded Blackhawks GM who forgot about the contract issues and technicalities and lost a few players that way (submitting it a day late)?

    It could happen to anyone…

  32. Scungilli says:

    Professor Q:
    Also: apparently there is worry that Adidas will scrap the third jerseys next season. I didn’t read far enough to see if that was only for next season and they’d restructure them afterwards, but it really seems odd that they wouldn’t capitalise on that revenue stream.

    I really hope this isn’t the end of our orange jerseys. I love them, and would love to see an Oilers version of what the Condors wore during the Outdoor Classic.

    I find beige jerseys very United Statesian. And bland as well.

  33. Professor Q says:

    Scungilli: I find beige jerseys very United Statesian. And bland as well.

    How so? The original Oilers jerseys were that very design.

  34. JDï™ says:

    Professor Q: I really hope this isn’t the end of our orange jerseys.

    I read somewhere earlier today that there will be no third jersey for any team next season, AND that the Oilers would be wearing their orange w/blue as their home apparel.

    I’ll try to dig up the link.

    Edit: It doesn’t get any more legit than sportslogos.net !!!

    http://news.sportslogos.net/2017/01/09/edmonton-oilers-switching-to-orange-only-at-home-in-2017-18/

  35. Scungilli says:

    Bruce Wayne: The idea is impossible in principle and in practice.

    Impossible or impractical?

    The more forcefully a point is stated the more lizard brain it incites in the reader, and the closer to not true it moves.

  36. Edmonton_fan says:

    I firmly believe the Oilers plan to bring JP back around the trade deadline – this is the only logical explanation for hitting the 40 game mark…

  37. Scungilli says:

    Professor Q: How so? The original Oilers jerseys were that very design.

    Maybe we’re not on the same page. The Alberta Oiler jerseys were red orange and blue, the Condors outdoor versions I saw on the Reinhart dangle vid were beige.

  38. square_wheels says:

    Lowetide,

    Are we 100% certain the 40 game mark was crossed, that he wasn’t place on the IR somewhere in there and we just forgot/didn’t look close enough ??

    The fact he was with the team doesn’t mean he was on the active roster, it implies it though.

  39. OilClog says:

    No better way to mask an under the table deal, then with a dramatic back up goalie tale.

    Who’s the tallest Swedish netminder that’s ufa this summer no one is talking about? That’s our tale next year, same bat channel, same bat shit.

  40. jonrmcleod says:

    Does the fact that the Oilers waited until right after the 40 game limit to send Puljujarvi down suggest that there was some sort of agreement in place for him to burn his first RFA year?

  41. Professor Q says:

    JDï™,

    That’s what I like to hear. Which might mean that the Condors were test driving the home jerseys!

    Jacques Plante here we come…

  42. Professor Q says:

    Scungilli: Maybe we’re not on the same page. The Alberta Oiler jerseys were red orange and blue, the Condors outdoor versions I saw on the Reinhart dangle vid were beige.

    Yeah, I saw an old photo of Jacques Plante wearing the orange, blue, and cream (cream, not beige!) jersey and fell in love. Not the one with the orange OILERS logo, though. I think that one was different but also cream?

    Great goalie, too.

    EDIT: Not cream either. White indeed. I was wrong. Mandela Effect and Old Photo Effect.

    I still like the cream colour, however.

  43. Professor Q says:

    Although on hockeydb Jesse is listed as only having played 28 games.

    Is that…valid?

  44. Mustard Tiger says:

    voxwah:
    I bet the 40 game mark and burning that extra UFA year was part of the deal having Jesse play in North America this season.

    He could have made WAY more money playing in Finland this year. What incentive would there be for him to just come over and possibly be in the AHL all season making a tiny salary.

    I’m sure the deal was. Play in North America. We guarantee you 40 games of NHL salary and to burn off the extra year of UFA eligibility. If you are playing great we will keep you up but if you need some time you will be sent down for the rest of the season to the AHL with a possible call up if things go well.

    Tha way he gets a 40 game paycheque for sure, a better contract situation in the future and the Oilers get to develop him here in North America.

    That has to be the logic behind it. It’s really the only explaination for waiting 40 games. It’s not like Todd and Peter don’t know about the 40 games.

    Given the evidence we have, this seems to be the best explanation

  45. pocession charge says:

    However it unfolded, the Oilers made a blunder by keeping him for the 40 games. He should have stayed in Finland and developed there. Then 20 games in the AHL to start next season. But Chia had him penciled into the lineup on draft day (he was asked if JP was NHL ready and he said yes). This isn’t an epic fail but a blunder, nonetheless.

  46. npanciroli says:

    I know the Oilers are generally terrible with contracts but I don’t think we can view this management group as we did with past ones. Not saying what transpired wasn’t a bad idea, just don’t think this is the same management group as the last 10 years.

  47. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide,

    , I will guess it is a LHD for a RW, just for fun.

    I can see Davidson for a RW.

    The Oilers are not going to protect Davidson.

    If they go 7-3-1 , they have 93, 27, 14, 29, 55, 19 to protect up front leaving room for one more.

    15, 44, 51, 67 and Khaira exposed.

    If they don’t do it now, they probably do in the late spring.

  48. Woodguy says:

    jonrmcleod:
    Does the fact that the Oilers waited until right after the 40 game limit to send Puljujarvi down suggest that there was some sort of agreement in place for him to burn his first RFA year?

    Occam’s razor suggests either:

    1) they didn’t care if they tolled a year or not.
    2) they had an agreement to toll a year

  49. Lowetide says:

    square_wheels:
    Lowetide,

    Are we 100% certain the 40 game mark was crossed, that he wasn’t place on the IR somewhere in there and we just forgot/didn’t look close enough ??

    The fact he was with the team doesn’t mean he was on the active roster, it implies it though.

    No IR that I can see
    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/15998/gamelog

  50. Woodguy says:

    Professor Q:
    Although on hockeydb Jesse is listed as only having played 28 games.

    Is that…valid?

    Yes, that’s games played.

    To toll a year of a contract for a 18 or 19 year old they just have to be on the roster, not playing in every game.

    98 was on the roster for 42 games.

  51. Lowetide says:

    Professor Q:
    Although on hockeydb Jesse is listed as only having played 28 games.

    Is that…valid?

    No. He was on the roster for 40
    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/15998/gamelog

  52. Woodguy says:

    Professor Q:
    Also: apparently there is worry that Adidas will scrap the third jerseys next season. I didn’t read far enough to see if that was only for next season and they’d restructure them afterwards, but it really seems odd that they wouldn’t capitalise on that revenue stream.

    I really hope this isn’t the end of our orange jerseys. I love them, and would love to see an Oilers version of what the Condors wore during the Outdoor Classic.

    I read a piece that suggested it was only for one season to make the roll out easier for Adidas.

  53. pocession charge says:

    Woodguy:
    Lowetide,

    , I will guess it is a LHD for a RW, just for fun.

    I can see Davidson for a RW.

    The Oilers are not going to protect Davidson.

    If they go 7-3-1 , they have 93, 27, 14, 29, 55, 19 to protect up front leaving room for one more.

    15, 44, 51, 67 and Khaira exposed.

    If they don’t do it now, they probably do in the late spring.

    How many games would Davidson need to play at RW (4th line) to qualify as a winger for the expansion draft?

  54. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: No IR that I can see
    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/15998/gamelog

    Injuries do not matter when talking about the 40 games on the roster to toll a season.

    Here’s the CBA thing that describes it.

    Its literary the first thing in the CBA after the table of contents:

    “Accrued Season” means any League Year during which a Player was on a
    Club’s Active Roster for 40 (30 if the Player is a goalie) or more Regular Season Games, provided that, for the purposes of calculating an Accrued Season under this Agreement, games missed due to a hockey-related injury incurred while on a Club’s Active Roster shall count as games played for purposes of calculating an Accrued Season but only during the League Year in which the injury was incurred and a maximum of one additional season.

  55. Woodguy says:

    pocession charge: How many games would Davidson need to play at RW (4th line) to qualify as a winger for the expansion draft?

    I meant trading Davidson for a RW.

    Interesting idea though…..

  56. stush18 says:

    JP will be back up before the end of the year. It’s a moot point. Moot? Sure.

    Also how about my fuckin boy slepyshev! Back up!

    I was the unofficial director of his hype train last summer. Kid can really play, and I hope they start using him on the powerplay. Tmac seems to bring along the rookies slowly though. Plus the success of maroon-mcdavid-drai means slepy prolly plays on the fourth line.

    I’d run that line till the hot streak ended, then put him with drai. They looked like they had some good compatibility.

    Poo-mcdavid-ebs
    Maroon-drai-slepy
    Lucic-nuge-kass
    Lander-letestu-Hendricks

  57. squeezboks says:

    square_wheels,

    Games lost to a hockey-related injury still count towards the 40 game mark for accrued seasons. So it doesn’t matter if he was on the IR or not.

  58. square_wheels says:

    Woodguy,

    So no injury slipped in for 2 games, when he had what looked to be a mild sprain/charley horse ?

    Not that it matters, he’s coming back for the playoffs 🙂

    Ya, I said it, playoffs.

  59. Ryan says:

    Bruce Wayne:

    What is possible, even likely, is that this was the condition to get him to come over from Finland this year.This is an absurd price to pay, even though it is clearly what happened…

    Bang on.

  60. square_wheels says:

    squeezboks,

    ah, gotcha, so were looking at an agreement between Agent and Chia or an acclimatization period for our Hossa man-child.

    Just re-read the CBA WG covered……….I spent an entire day writing project mngt exams………….which is almost like being punched in the face minus the good stories about the shiner.

  61. square_wheels says:

    Ryan,

    We wants our precious though.

  62. Professor Q says:

    square_wheels,

    Cue the meme!

  63. Professor Q says:

    square_wheels,

    If that precious had turned out to be Laine Good™, I doubt they’d have cared either way, too.

  64. square_wheels says:

    For the audiophiles out there I will mention this more than twice this week – SET YOUR PVR’S TO RECORD SNL THIS WEEKEND – STURGILL SIMPSON IS THE MUSICAL GUEST AND HE’S FUCKING AWESOME.

    Like Waylon singing punk rock songs with Crazy Horse on rhythm. Serious talent.

  65. kinger_OIL says:

    voxwah:
    I bet the 40 game mark and burning that extra UFA year was part of the deal having Jesse play in North America this season.

    He could have made WAY more money playing in Finland this year. What incentive would there be for him to just come over and possibly be in the AHL all season making a tiny salary.

    I’m sure the deal was. Play in North America. We guarantee you 40 games of NHL salary and to burn off the extra year of UFA eligibility. If you are playing great we will keep you up but if you need some time you will be sent down for the rest of the season to the AHL with a possible call up if things go well.

    Tha way he gets a 40 game paycheque for sure, a better contract situation in the future and the Oilers get to develop him here in North America.

    That has to be the logic behind it. It’s really the only explaination for waiting 40 games. It’s not like Todd and Peter don’t know about the 40 games.

    – This is exactly my line of reason from last one! This is the ony explanation (with all due respect to the great idea that they discovered with their bionic medical team that he was still gowing so they slow-played him: that was an awesome explanation)

    – They wanted him to play here more than in finnish league. Unlike a North-American drafted player, this is the only time in a career a drafted player has “control”

    – The $2MM theoretical 7 years out for one year, discounted, does not even account for the bad year he had this year.

    – It’s really not complicated IMO, and many sound reasons to “burn a year”

    – People can disagree with it, and present reasons why, but it is not proof positive that Chia et all are idiots. It is not a decision without merit, and to be so categoric about what is optimal is brave

  66. --hudson-- says:

    The Oilers read LTs post on the Detroit development model years ago and went opposite George. The new model involves marinating your prospects in the NHL before sending them to the AHL to dominate.

    Once they get an AHL team capable of making the playoffs– look out!

  67. square_wheels says:

    Professor Q,

    I’m happy with our Finn though, there is a perfect elite 2 way player there, one you never ever get in Free Agency.

    Plus we have McDavid. That alone, once in a while requires a :

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT…………NHL PTS LEADER

  68. stevezie says:

    square_wheels:
    For the audiophiles out there I will mention this more than twice this week – SET YOUR PVR’S TO RECORD SNL THIS WEEKEND – STURGILL SIMPSON IS THE MUSICAL GUEST AND HE’S FUCKING AWESOME.

    Like Waylon singing punk rock songs with Crazy Horse on rhythm. Serious talent.

    this is accurate

  69. Younger Oil says:

    If the “deal” was for Puljujarvi to be on the NHL roster for 40 games, why wouldn’t they have done it for the first 20 and last 20?

    No point having him in the PB and playing under 8 minutes a game consistently over having him actually develop in the AHL so he could actually contribute at the NHL level.

    Furthermore, if the “40 games or Finland” was what Puljujarvi’s party was putting on the table, the Oilers should have just let him go back to Finland. He wasn’t impacting the game as much as Slepyshev did or Khaira/Yakupov/Versteeg/Parenteau could have, that was clear after 9 games, so why burn a year off of his contract and THEN his RFA eligibility?

    Even when you try to justify this decision by proposing there are contract clauses unknown to the public, it looks awful. I can’t think of a worse series of decisions that they could have made to be honest.

  70. stevezie says:

    None of the explanations for the jp handling that use available information make a lick of sense. Players get left in Europe all yhe time. He would have made good money, developed fine, and had plenty of spare time for English lessons. None of the explanations as to why they didn’t do that make a lick of sense.

    So it must be because of something we don’t know. So what’s the point in arguing?

    Not a lick of sense.

  71. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    I said last week they would keep him through 40 because they most likely had an agreement. Otherwise JP would have spent another year in Europe.

    Oilers wanted him to come over and see where he was at and begin his transition and adjustment as soon as possible. Now it is out of the way, player understands what is going on and also trusts management to keep its word.

    If he plays his way back up this year he will be back up but now there is no more pressure to force the issue.

    That’s what I believe they were going for all along and I stand by that opinion.

  72. GCW_69 says:

    “Ideally, you would see Puljujarvi placed in the best possible circumstances, and that may mean playing LW with Beck on the other side and Khaira in the middle. ”

    If the role they envision for JP is playing RW on one of the top two lines in Edmonton, why would they put him on the RW in Bakersfield? He should be 1RW in Bakersfield and if they want Beck to play with JP then Beck should shift over.

    I would also hope they told Flemming to have JP as the shooter on the PP in the Ovechkin position to see if he can handle it.

    If you are going to send a player for training, train him in the role you want him to play.

  73. kinger_OIL says:

    Younger Oil,

    After Draft: 2016

    Chia to pool-party and agent: “wow, we are so pumped that you fell to us, we wanted you so bad. We love fins here, and you and McD can be the next Gretz-Kurri

    Pool-party: “Yeah, I don’t speak english, I’m 18, living in Finland is great. I get home cooked meals, I’m the man here, I get paid bank, there aren’t that many games, I get to develop at my own pace. I make a few hundred K here, Let’s talk in a year”

    – What is Chia and the brass going to do? They know Yak is gone, they need wingers

    – Recall everyone here on this blog thought pool-party was going to dominate right away., be a stud (well a few of us didn’t but you get the point)

    – If I thought pool-party had a chance to slot in to Yak’s spot, I sure as heck don’t want him playing in the finn league.

    – If I’m pool-party there is no way I’m going to move to Edmonton, with no guarentee that I last more than 9 games and then move to Bakersfield, and get paid nuthin’. Because I don’t have to.

    – I think each party acted completly rationally and I would have done the same in either camp.

  74. square_wheels says:

    Where was Jesse P living, with another player(s) or with 6 rings ? Or bunk beds with the Katz boys ?

  75. Gordies Elbow says:

    Younger Oil:
    If the “deal” was for Puljujarvi to be on the NHL roster for 40 games, why wouldn’t they have done it for the first 20 and last 20?

    Injury risk.

    He could have been hurt in the AHL, not allowing for them to burn the year.

  76. Woodguy says:

    square_wheels:
    Woodguy,

    So no injury slipped in for 2 games, when he had what looked to be a mild sprain/charley horse ?

    Not that it matters, he’s coming back for the playoffs

    Ya, I said it, playoffs.

    I think they make it too.

    They are doing so because LT picked them to miss.

    I hope that next year he picks them to lose in the conference finals.

  77. Woodguy says:

    square_wheels:
    Where was Jesse P living, with another player(s) or with 6 rings ? Or bunk beds with the Katz boys ?

    Well apparently he skated a few times at the Crestwood outdoor rink.

    Lowe lives across the river, I think MacT still lives near Oleskiew.

    Katz’s joint isn’t too far from Crestwood.

    I have no idea, could be another family with Oiler connections, but given he skated at Crestwood its probably around there.

  78. JDï™ says:

    Who’s on SNL this weekend? I might have to go buy a PVR, and sign up for cable…

  79. bill needle says:

    When you say Puljularvi’s salary could jump from $4M to $6M in seven years time, you assume he’ll be worth $4M or $6M at that point. Who’s to say he’ll become a scorer that commands such dough? He could just as easily become another Anton Lander, who finds goals, and therefore contracts above the league minimum, hard to come by.

  80. Lowetide says:

    bill needle:
    When you say Puljularvi’s salary could jump from $4M to $6M in seven years time, you assume he’ll be worth $4M or $6M at that point. Who’s to say he’ll become a scorer that commands such dough? He could just as easily become another Anton Lander, who finds goals, and therefore contracts above the league minimum, hard to come by.

    I always credit my readers with the power of reason, Bill. 🙂

  81. stush18 says:

    Woodguy: I think they make it too.

    They are doing so because LT picked them to miss.

    I hope that next year he picks them to lose in the conference finals.

    That would be reasonable.

  82. Pescador says:

    JDï™:
    Who’s on SNL this weekend? I might have to go buy a PVR, and sign up for cable…

    Or just watch it on the U-tubes the next day.
    Wait aren’t you the king of the pirate streams?

  83. ASkoreyko says:

    Woodguy,

    I know Lander and Klefbom were living in a home in Crestwood last year as we were looking at homes in the area and my wife’s interest in the neighbourhood suddenly spiked. Might have been something to do with Klefbom standing in the livingroom sans shirt eating cereal. Even my interest spiked after that.

    I could imagine JP eating pizza in that same spot.

  84. square_wheels says:

    Pescador,

    Sturgill is the best thing in country music IMHO, bringing it back to where I can listen again.

    Also, for what its worth, nominated for an Album of the Year Grammy for Sailor’s Guide to Earth.

    SNL and NBC are absolute tyrants for taking down streams for any of their content.

    try this – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWx6csgGkg4

  85. John Chambers says:

    stevezie:
    None of the explanations for the jp handling that use available information make a lick of sense. Players get left in Europe all yhe time. He would have made good money, developed fine, and had plenty of spare time for English lessons. None of the explanations as to why they didn’t do that make a lick of sense.

    So it must be because of something we don’t know. So what’s the point in arguing?

    Not a lick of sense.

    I can see a lot of debate between JPs agent and Chia over the summer where the Oilers are adamant about him playing in North America with JPs agent countering that JP would be risking a higher guaranteed salary.

    To satisfy both parties the Oilers keep JP on the roster 40 games, use the time getting JP used to his teammates and life in Edmonton and the NHL, experiencing NHL games, etc until they’re ready to let him loose in the AHL. I’m sure Chia knows about the 40-game threshold but feels it’s a concern well down the road that can be assuaged in time.

    I’d also have let him play in Finland this year and let him make the jump next, or at the very least insisted on the Mikko Rantanen route, but we alas are merely bystanders.

  86. oscarmike says:

    Puljujarvi was rated to be NHL ready at the draft.
    He’s played in the men’s Finnish league.
    We know he can skate with the puck and score goals
    I don’t think it’s going to take him long to figure it out.
    He should get lots of minutes with both lander and slepy gone.

    Maroon-Mcdavid-Draisaitle
    Lucic-Letestu-Kassian
    Drake-Nuge-Ebs
    Hendricks-Lander-Slepy.

  87. square_wheels says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m betting him a Costco package of Hawkins Cheezies they make the conference finals.

  88. Soup Fascist says:

    square_wheels:
    Where was Jesse P living, with another player(s) or with 6 rings ? Or bunk beds with the Katz boys ?

    My understanding was the Poolman was living near Rogers Place with young Mr. Benning.

  89. Pescador says:

    square_wheels:
    Pescador,

    Sturgill is the best thing in country music IMHO, bringing it back to where I can listen again.

    SNL and NBC are absolute tyrants for taking down streams for any of their content.

    try this – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWx6csgGkg4

    Thanks man, I was actually taking a cheap shot at JDi.🙂
    Not a country fan, but a good artist is a good artist.
    I shall watch & listen with my most discerning ear.

  90. bill needle says:

    More speculation, a 40-game NHL guarantee may have been the reason Puljujarvi fell so surprisingly to the Oilers in the first place. CBJ GM Kekalainen may have had a better idea of how much of an adjustment Puljuljarvi would require due to the teen’s reported English difficulties. Oilers may have been more willing to take the risk.

  91. LMHF#1 says:

    Protecting Letestu LT? What?? They can’t be that dumb.

  92. JDï™ says:

    Pescador,

    Aye matey – t’was just hopin SW could tell us once more!

  93. HT Joe says:

    kinger_OIL:
    Younger Oil,

    After Draft: 2016

    Chia to pool-party and agent: “wow, we are so pumped that you fell to us, we wanted you so bad.We love fins here, and you and McD can be the next Gretz-Kurri

    Pool-party: “Yeah, I don’t speak english, I’m 18, living in Finland is great.I get home cooked meals, I’m the man here, I get paid bank, there aren’t that many games, I get to develop at my own pace.I make a few hundred K here, Let’s talk in a year”

    – What is Chia and the brass going to do? They know Yak is gone, they need wingers

    *Checks timeline… Draft JP on June 24, trade Yak Oct 7…

    Maybe Chia shouldn’t have traded Yak for a 3rd overall if JP was playing hardball with the Oilers brass?!?
    (I know he’s having a helluva tough time in St. Louis, but he seemed fine playing with McD…)

    *head asplodes*

  94. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bruce Wayne:
    It makes no sense for them to do this in an attempt to curry favour with the player and agent.Is there any precedent of an NHL team going out of their way to give up this kind of leverage?

    Sports leagues bargain hard, even going so far as to sacrifice entire seasons of play, just to maintain or increase the years of contractual control they have over their players, and now the Oilers, out of the goodness of their heart, are just giving it away for free.That makes no sense.

    Compare this to Steve Yzerman, who played hardball with Drouin all the way down the line.He still has the player, the player is still (so it seems) happy, and he gets him for less money and for more years.

    I fail to see the upside.It won’t save them money, and it doesn’t make the player a better player.Hell, it doesn’t even make the player happier over the long term.If the player plays well and the team does well, he will be happy.If it goes sidewise, none of this is going to help.

    And it is all so arbitrary.Chiarelli is perfectly capable of running someone out of town, or sending the next guy to the minors, for some mystical reason Puljujarvi gets the special reason.

    And note this is different than promising Benning and Caggiula they would be on the roster in order to get them to sign.That’s good business, and having made the promise he should honour it, but there is no reason to make such a promise to a draft pick.

    Totally agree with this. Having said that, I’m just glad they finally sent him down. There is likeky something we don’t know. Even the most strident Chia hater cannot possibly think hes this stupid.

  95. Chachi says:

    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

  96. JimmyV1965 says:

    stevezie:
    None of the explanations for the jp handling that use available information make a lick of sense. Players get left in Europe all yhe time. He would have made good money, developed fine, and had plenty of spare time for English lessons. None of the explanations as to why they didn’t do that make a lick of sense.

    So it must be because of something we don’t know. So what’s the point in arguing?

    Not a lick of sense.

    Agreed.

  97. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/audio/rishaug-maroon-being-rewarded-for-stepping-out-of-comfort-zone-1.645187

    halfway through this segment is a segment on JP and the curious way McLellan and Chia seemed to react when asked about him.

    Technically, couldnt Karpat have asked for him back if he was not on the NHL roster for 40 games?

  98. Lowetide says:

    Chachi:
    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

    I would have to look, but last time I viewed Chychruns numbers he was damned impressive.

  99. Scungilli says:

    Chachi: Interestingly boy genius John Chayka

    Genius to those who repeatedly fall for labels being put on young people who some how know more than those with experience and developed relationships, as opposed to persuasion and revelatory insights. Seems to come up a lot in computery businesses. I think Mr. Chayka’s resume came largely from a place like that. The market correction is to swing from dinosaurs to impossible dreams. The truth lies in the middle.

  100. DaveWatchesHockey says:

    kinger_OIL: – This is exactly my line of reason from last one!This is the ony explanation (with all due respect to the great idea that they discovered with their bionic medical team that he was still gowing so they slow-played him: that was an awesomeexplanation)

    – They wanted him to play here more than in finnish league.Unlike a North-American drafted player, this is the only time in a career a drafted player has “control”

    – The $2MM theoretical 7 years out for one year, discounted, does not even account for the bad year he had this year.

    – It’s really not complicated IMO, and many sound reasons to “burn a year”

    – People can disagree with it, and present reasons why, but it is not proof positive that Chia et all are idiots.It is not a decision without merit, and to be so categoric about what is optimal is brave

    This makes sense to me, though we may never know in the end. Your points are logical and rational.

    Dave

  101. Jaxon says:

    Puljujarvi had the 2nd best RW 5on5 Primary Pts/60 after Pitlick

    Oilers Dpeth Chart by 5-on-5 Primary Pts / 60:

    LW C RW
    MAROON 1.71 / MCDAVID 2.23 / PITLICK 2.02
    SLEPYSHEV 1.09 / DRAISAITL 1.17 / PULJUJARVI 1.45
    POULIOT 0.97 / NUGENT-HOPKINS 0.88 / DRAISAITL 1.17
    LUCIC 0.89 / LETESTU 0.83 / SLEPYSHEV 1.09
    LANDER 0.82 / LANDER 0.82 / KASSIAN 0.71
    CAGGIULA 0.47 / CAGGIULA 0.47 / EBERLE 0.61
    HENDRICKS 0.37 / HENDRICKS 0.37 / HENDRICKS 0.37

    I do realize that Pitlick, Puljujarvi and Slepyshev got their points mostly against lesser competition, but it still illustrates how backwards the lineup has been performing. Lucic, Eberle and Pouliot should be at or near the top of the primary pts production depth chart even against top competition. Lucic does not look good out there (no speed, bad work ethic, hockey IQ seems lacking, poor hands, loses a lot of pucks, uggh). Eberle, however, does look decent and is mostly just snake-bitten, I think. I see Eberle working quite hard and actually digging in the corners. It must be driving him crazy.

    Lineup in order of Primary Pts / 60 without Puljujarvi or Pitlick:

    Maroon / McDavid / Draisaitl
    Pouliot / Nugent-Hopkins / Slepyshev
    Lucic / Letestu / Kassian
    Lander / Caggiula / Eberle
    Hendricks

  102. Chachi says:

    Lowetide: I would have to look, but last time I viewed Chychruns numbers he was damned impressive.

    He is an impressive prospect (might be a surer thing than Puljujarvi) and he’s going to be a UFA a year early. It is going to cost Arizona millions.

  103. N64 says:

    Scungilli: Genius to those who repeatedly fall for labels being put on young people who some how know more than those with experience and developed relationships, as opposed to persuasion and revelatory insights. Seems to come up a lot in computery businesses. I think Mr. Chayka’s resume came largely from a place like that. The market correction is to swing from dinosaurs to impossible dreams. The truth lies in the middle.

    Theo says hi Steve.

  104. Chachi says:

    N64: Theo says hi Steve.

    Smart guy, but it also helps when you can significantly outspend the opposition…

  105. stevezie says:

    kinger_OIL,

    Respectfully, Dave is wrong. This doesn’t make a lick the f sense. They need wingers? They don’t play him. When they do he has one lucky goal.

    I have yet to hear a good explanation of why him playing im Finland is so terrible that it’s worth a half a year of almost no playing time, a burned year of elc, and a year earlier to free agency. That is not cheap.

    And what did we buy? He’s not helping us. On its face it’s not helping him. He has no leverage. Why is Chia suddenly worried about appeasing a rookie? Why is Finland so terrible? Why would California be so terrible to the player or the team?

    John Chambers: I can see a lot of debate between JPs agent and Chia over the summer where the Oilers are adamant about him playing in North America with JPs agent countering that JP would be risking a higher guaranteed salary

    Maybe, but that’s a strange thing to be adament about. Paid a high price.

    JimmyV1965: Even the most strident Chia hater cannot possibly think hes this stupid.

    Exactly. I don’t. There are known unknowns, here.

  106. lester says:

    LMHF#1,

    Agree with you, looks like we will be losing a Dman.

  107. Jaxon says:

    Upcoming UFAs on most likely non-playoff teams (ARI, BUF, COL, DET, NJD, NYI is my current list):

    They shouldn’t cost much as rentals.

    Listed with 5-on-5 Primary Pts/60 or 5-on-5 SV%

    ARI
    C Hanzal 0.8
    RW Vrbata 1.49

    DET
    RW/LW Vanek 2.32

    BUF
    RW Gionta 1.76
    G Nilsson .943

    NYI
    D Seidenberg 0.68
    G Greiss .940

  108. stevezie says:

    The apologist explanation assumes he would help on the big team (he hasn’t), he has any leverage in where he goes (he doesn’t), and that it is terrible to stay in Finland (it isn’t).

    Only the middle one is even a quasi-factor. And anyone who wants to remind me that they’re people not machines should know i agree, but neither Finland nor California is a terrible option.

    Known unknowns, man. Plus the other kind.

  109. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    Jaxon:
    Upcoming UFAs on most likely non-playoff teams (ARI, BUF, COL, DET, NJD, NYI is my current list):

    They shouldn’t cost much as rentals.

    Listed with 5-on-5 Primary Pts/60 or 5-on-5 SV%

    ARI
    C Hanzal 0.8
    RW Vrbata 1.49

    DET
    RW/LW Vanek 2.32

    BUF
    RW Gionta 1.76
    G Nilsson .943

    NYI
    D Seidenberg 0.68
    G Greiss .940

    Think that both Vrbata and Hanzal would be great fits here.

    Maroon-McDavid-Drai
    Lucic-Nuge-Eberle
    Pouliot-Hanzal-Vrbata
    Lander-Letestu-Kassian
    Slepyshev

    Send Caggiula down

    That forward group is big, skilled, ready to rumble in the playoffs.

    I would give up a little more to move early and close the deal ahead of the deadline.
    1st this year, Hendricks for salary and a prospect. Yup, pricy, but I don’t expect Chayka to give up those two chips early for cheap. The key is to get them now rather than at the deadline, IMO.

  110. Scungilli says:

    N64: Theo says hi Steve.

    Ha!

    There is a window when dinosaurs don’t get the plot, it closes fast. Not Corsi for hockey but teams have been doing their thing for years and with way more data than G has.

  111. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    This is a good national title game.

  112. Woodguy says:

    square_wheels:
    Woodguy,

    I’m betting him a Costco package of Hawkins Cheezies they make the conference finals.

    Gogogogogo!

  113. Woodguy says:

    ASkoreyko:
    Woodguy,

    I know Lander and Klefbom were living in a home in Crestwood last year as we were looking at homes in the area and my wife’s interest in the neighbourhood suddenly spiked. Might have been something to do with Klefbom standing in the livingroom sans shirt eating cereal. Even my interest spiked after that.

    I could imagine JP eating pizza in that same spot.

    I read that he was living with a “family”

    Unless we are individually counting Klef’s abs, I don’t think they’d count.

  114. Woodguy says:

    Chachi:
    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

    ARI makes a lot of moves that do not jibe with most fancystaters I know.

    Also,

    Chayka was a micro-stats guy and they don’t always jibe with shot value people.

    There are many tribes of fancystaters, those are just two of them.

  115. stevezie says:

    .

    NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”: Think that both Vrbata and Hanzal would be great fits here.

    I’ve considered Hanzalmy dream Oilers addition for years.

    Even though we’re no longer as desperate for his type, he sure could play Chiarelli playoff hockey.

  116. Lowetide says:

    A reminder to all that we do not venture into personal areas of the players we discuss. This may include behavior in off hours, diagnosis from a distance and general commentary that invades areas this blog was not meant to cover. Apologies to all whose posts were deleted, I wish no conflict with anyone beyond making certain we stay on course. Thanks.

  117. Chachi says:

    Woodguy: ARI makes a lot of moves that do not jibe with most fancystaters I know.

    Also,

    Chayka was a micro-stats guy and they don’t always jibe with shot value people.

    There are many tribes of fancystaters, those are just two of them.

    Well, there goes my theory that everyone thinks the same things about everything.

  118. FunsTuff says:

    What year does JP become a UFA? Is it the same year the CBA expires? Would that have anything to do with allowing a year to lapse?

  119. stevezie says:

    HT Joe: *Checks timeline… Draft JP on June 24, trade Yak Oct 7…

    Maybe Chia shouldn’t have traded Yak for a 3rd overall if JP was playing hardball with the Oilers brass?!?
    (I know he’s having a helluva tough time in St. Louis, but he seemed fine playing with McD…)

    *head asplodes*

    Without defending Yak, i agree with you. Nothing that has happened (or didn’t happen with waivers) makes sense to me. No idea what the thinking was beyond spiting me, personally.

  120. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide,

    Any update on Benson?

    I sure hope its not the pubis thing again.

    My pubis injury returned for me. Hurt for about 2 years, then finally was back to 100%. I was good for about 8 months. Running, playing hockey, lifting weights, no problem. Go water sliding with the kids and bam. Back to square one.

    It has been one helluva stretching and core strengthening journey, and even if one heals like I did, the reoccurrence like what happened to me is quite high.

    Its been a few months since I reinjured it, its not as bad as the first time, I can still play hockey ( even though hockey is one of the worst things for it) run and lift weights, Im almost back to 100%.

    I had a torn rotator cuff when I was a teenager and would say for development, the pubis injury is way worse.

    Hope Benson did not injury it again.

  121. who says:

    Chachi:
    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

    Watched the last few coyote games and chychrin looked pretty good but he is getting pounded. Noticed it in the last edmonton game as well. Leaves himself exposed a lot. Probably not the greatest thing for an eighteen year old body.
    They may have thought he was too good for junior but someone needs to teach him it’s okay to bail out once in a while.
    At least they’re playing him regularly.

  122. Lowetide says:

    frjohnk:
    Lowetide,

    Any update on Benson?

    I sure hope its not the pubis thing again.

    My pubis injury returned for me. Hurt for about 2 years, then finally was back to 100%.I was good for about 8 months. Running, playing hockey, lifting weights, no problem.Go water sliding with the kids and bam.Back to square one.

    It has been one helluva stretching and core strengthening journey, and even if one heals like I did, the reoccurrence like what happened to me is quite high.

    Its been a few months since I reinjured it, its not as bad as the first time, I can still play hockey ( even though hockey is one of the worst things for it) run and lift weights, Im almost back to 100%.

    I had a torn rotator cuff when I was a teenager and would say for development, the pubis injury is way worse.

    Hope Benson did not injury it again.

    Nothing I have read as of yet, and he has not played since the scratch in Edmonton.

  123. Bruce Wayne says:

    Nobody with a lick of sense thought Puljujarvi was ready for the NHL this year. He didn’t have anywhere near the track record of Laine or Mathews. Keeping him around to help win this year was foolhardy from the beginning.

    Moreover, keeping him here likely cost them Versteeg, or Parenteau, or whomever else they might have filled in that slot, the very thing we’ve been talking about them acquiring all year, and if they do acquire is going to cost them at least a second round pick.

    And for those who think that because it makes no sense, there must be some explanation we don’t know about (the known unknowns), you are giving Chiarelli credit he doesn’t deserve. We know he is terrible at his job. We know he does inexplicable, utterly indefensible, things. Not simply things we disagree with, but things that should be impossible for a sentient being.

    Now I know he is supposed to be an intelligent person. Well if that is so, he is an intelligent person who believes in fairy tales, and these fairy tales are driving the decisions. Indeed, that is actually a plausible explanation, since we know people generally make decisions on the basis of the fairy tales they believe, regardless of their intelligence. It doesn’t matter how smart you are, if your eyes are looking in the wrong direction. It is about seeing not thinking.

  124. who says:

    Chachi:
    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

    Watched the last few coyote games and chychrin looked pretty good but he is getting pounded. Noticed it in the last edmonton game as well. Leaves himself exposed a lot. Probably not the greatest thing for an eighteen year old body.
    They may have thought he was too good for junior but someone needs to teach him it’s okay to bail out once in a while.
    At least they’re playing him regularly.

  125. oscarmike says:

    I bet Oilers find a back up goalie tomorrow off waivers or a trade.
    No way they bring up Ellis or Brossoit. Neither of them are crushing it in the AHL
    They won’t be any better. Oilers would have to be stupid.

    There’s no way Jonas comes back, he’s finished.

    Fayne for Halak would be a fair deal.

    Good for NYI. Last place in the east. Who’s laughing now. Reinheart for picks 16 and 33. That’s Karma. It would be better if Oilers can convince Tavares to jump ship after next year. Tavares is the
    Most underpaid player. How’s does Bobby Ryan make so much more and does so much less than Tavares. Oilers would have to trade Nuge Pou and Ebs for picks and prospects. I wouldn’t doubt if Tavares gets $9.5mil to stay on Long Island.

  126. Bruce Wayne says:

    Jaxon:
    Upcoming UFAs on most likely non-playoff teams (ARI, BUF, COL, DET, NJD, NYI is my current list):

    They shouldn’t cost much as rentals.

    Listed with 5-on-5 Primary Pts/60 or 5-on-5 SV%

    ARI
    C Hanzal 0.8
    RW Vrbata 1.49

    DET
    RW/LW Vanek 2.32

    BUF
    RW Gionta 1.76
    G Nilsson .943

    NYI
    D Seidenberg 0.68
    G Greiss .940

    I would absolutely love for the Oilers to trade for Vanek, if only to watch Rishaug’s head explode. That would totally be worth it.

  127. NYCOIL "Gentleman Backpacker" says:

    oscarmike,

    McDavid is the most underpaid player.

  128. oscarmike says:

    Bruce Wayne,

    Nobody with a lick of sense???
    That’s not why the NHL scouts said at the draft.

  129. Georges says:

    Chachi:
    Not sure what the reasoning was to keep Puljujarvi here for the 40 games. It has the potential to be a costly decision or it could have no consequences at all.

    Interestingly boy genius John Chayka, much lauded in some parts for his shrewd moves with all that cap space he isn’t using to improve the Coyotes burned through a year of Jakob Chychrun’s entry level deal last week. This happened even though in the Coyote’s 39th game Chychrun was elbowed in the head and knocked out of the game early. Surprisingly he was back in the lineup for game 40 for a team that is going nowhere fast. Now of course, the only place Chychrun could have gone back to is Junior, but it is curious that they decided to keep him up. That certainly does not seem to be a move that is based on analytics.

    Chayka made one big bet before the draft in signing Goligoski to term. In the prior 8 seasons, the 5v5 sh% with Goligoski on the ice was always better than the median defenseman. If you’re coming from a tracking background like Chayka with Stathletes, you might be able to back up that unusual PDO result with some microstats like % controlled exits or % headman passes or whatever. You’d be tempted to think, hey, I’ve identified some exceptional offensive skill here and I’ve confirmed the presence of skill by tracking the player. But Goligoski played on some pretty good offensive teams before Arizona. I’ve tried to determine whether Goligoski’s sh% prowess was statistically better than his teammates. No luck. Goal-based stats like sh% require a lot of data to detect statistical differences in observed results, more than what’s typically available in a season. Particularly in the offensive impact of defensemen. Particularly in the ability of defensemen to influence on-ice sh%.

    Defensemen are a mystery. Coaches don’t seem to do as good a job of allocating time to defensemen based on their results as they do with forwards. Right now, I feel you should put your money into your forwards, make sure you have a reliable goalie with a high ceiling, and then get a bunch of good enough defensemen. They can hopefully limit high danger chances and you can pay them the going rate for that contribution. Happily, because NHL teams pay defensemen for their offense, you’ll save money that you can invest into your forwards. Every once in a while your defensemen will come in off the blueline and help score a goal. Yay! Bonus.

  130. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Wonder what D Arizona will protect. Expose Goligoski after the season he’s had? OEL, Murphy, Stone? Could they swing Davidson+ (1st?) in a deal for Duclair? He was a scratch in December

  131. Thorin says:

    Lowetide:
    A reminder to all that we do not venture into personal areas of the players we discuss. This may include behavior in off hours, diagnosis from a distance and general commentary that invades areas this blog was not meant to cover. Apologies to all whose posts were deleted, I wish no conflict with anyone beyond making certain we stay on course. Thanks.

    Honestly, this right here is what makes this comments section so compelling to read.

    I’m used to posting on forums where if you do something you shouldn’t, you get a curt (not courteous) “not appropriate, rtfaq, you’re lucky we didn’t perma-ban you”.

    Instead, a brief but friendly reminder of the rules and then an indication that we’re all still friends (or at least friendly).

    Lowetide, as the host you set a wonderful tone that pretty much everyone sticks to almost all of the time. Thank you.

    I still can’t believe how badly Gustavsson played last game. I really, honestly, thought he was going to try and prove himself. Maybe he psyched himself out. But that was a bad game even for a bad backup.

    Maybe they should sign Shannon Szabados for the next B2B. She’d do better than that.

  132. Woogie63 says:

    Justin Shultz and Taylor Hall both have 25 points and are tied for 82 place for the Art Ross

  133. Chachi says:

    Bruce Wayne: I would absolutely love for the Oilers to trade for Vanek, if only to watch Rishaug’s head explode.That would totally be worth it.

    You could sell tickets to watch his reaction. It would be glorious.

  134. Chachi says:

    Lowetide:
    A reminder to all that we do not venture into personal areas of the players we discuss. This may include behavior in off hours, diagnosis from a distance and general commentary that invades areas this blog was not meant to cover. Apologies to all whose posts were deleted, I wish no conflict with anyone beyond making certain we stay on course. Thanks.

    I completely understand if you want to delete this and I have to disclose that I am not a doctor, but after years of observing his play on the ice I am positive that Shane Doan has halitosis and when he is out in public he farts and blames his dog for the smell.

  135. HT Joe says:

    One trend I’ve noticed in the last couple of days is that many posters seem to reject comments such as “Person X made a stupid choice / action” by asserting that “Person X is not stupid”.

    But haven’t we all met really smart people that have said / done really stupid things that are not really reflective of their overall character / capabilities?

    I think it’s perfectly fair for us to collect all of the known data and then assert whether Chia or Todd or Katz or somebody else has done something stupid.

    _______________________________

    The Oilers burnt a year of JP’s ELC using 28 games played, often less than 10 minutes per night. Surely there could have been smarter ways to keep the young man healthy and happy without losing a year of control over a very important blue-chip player. Teams a year removed from being an annual laughing-stock cannot afford the luxury of giving up any advantages whatsoever, but here we are.

    I believe Chia is a smart man, and under more professional pressure than I will ever feel. He’s made a lot of good-to-great moves (e.g., Maroon, Talbot, drafting McDavid *wink*). But this one feels like a stupid mistake, and I doubt that it will appear substantially smarter in the future.

  136. Profit says:

    I’d just like to know who is this year’s Spacek, Samsanov and Roloson.

    Seidenberg, Vrbata and Griess?

    Seems a bit anticlimactic…

  137. JDï™ says:

    At least Chia gave us something else to argue about other than the Hall trade. Kudos Petey!

  138. Chachi says:

    Georges: Chayka made one big bet before the draft in signing Goligoski to term. In the prior 8 seasons, the 5v5 sh% with Goligoski on the ice was always better than the median defenseman. If you’re coming from a tracking background like Chayka with Stathletes, you might be able to back up that unusual PDO result with some microstats like % controlled exits or % headman passes or whatever. You’d be tempted to think, hey, I’ve identified some exceptional offensive skill here and I’ve confirmed the presence of skill by tracking the player. But Goligoski played on some pretty good offensive teams before Arizona. I’ve tried to determine whether Goligoski’s sh% prowess was statistically better than his teammates. No luck. Goal-based stats like sh% require a lot of data to detect statistical differences in observed results, more than what’s typically available in a season. Particularly in the offensive impact of defensemen. Particularly in the ability of defensemen to influence on-ice sh%.

    Defensemen are a mystery. Coaches don’t seem to do as good a job of allocating time to defensemen based on their results as they do with forwards. Right now, I feel you should put your money into your forwards, make sure you have a reliable goalie with a high ceiling, and then get a bunch of good enough defensemen. They can hopefully limit high danger chances and you can pay them the going rate for that contribution. Happily, because NHL teams pay defensemen for their offense, you’ll save money that you can invest into your forwards. Every once in a while your defensemen will come in off the blueline and help score a goal. Yay! Bonus.

    I agree with you completely, but I would also have sold the farm to get P.K. Subban from Montreal last summer so I am a little conflicted

  139. Zelepukin says:

    Chachi: I agree with you completely, but I would also have sold the farm to get P.K. Subban from Montreal last summer so I am a little conflicted

    Nothing as is it seems. Exhibit A: Columbus.

  140. stevezie says:

    HT Joe,

    Good post

  141. highgloveside says:

    I don’t believe losing a year of team control will make any difference in the long run. PC would have been in contact with JP’s agent every step of the way and it was obviously agreed upon that it was best of JP long term to spend more time with the NHL club, whether it be for support of an 18 year old in a new country with limited english skills or whatever. I would the PC would have come to an agreement that if this was better for JP, then they wouldn’t try to take advantage financially when an extra FA year had to be bought in a contract.

    JP is the future RW star of this team and he will be signed to an 8 year deal after his ELC is up. That will save the team more in the long run as everyone who gets a bridge deal ends up signing a much more lucrative contract 2 years later than they would have from the start. Usually that goes 2 year bridge and 5-6 year long term deal after that. Just sign the 8 year deal to start and when that deal is over at age 29, another 4 year deal can be done before becoming a diminishing asset.

    If the Oilers felt it would cost them more and cause them cap issues in the future by making this move, they would not have done it. Thinking PC did not have a very detailed plan on what was best for the team and JP would be foolish.

    There was intention behind this move, it is not just a coincidence that they sent him down after 41 games on the roster. I will trust that PC knows more about the long term affects of this move far better than any outsider.

    Next year, Draisaitl will sign long term, McDavid the year after that and JP after that. That is the offensive core that will lead the Oilers to the promised land and they are far superior to Gagner, Eberle Hall and Nuge.

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