TOOK HIM MINUTES, TOOK HER NOWHERE

You can’t sign a $6 million free agent every summer, even if you trade away a big contract leading up to July 1. The rumors are getting stronger, so far involving trades and the expansion draft. After that comes the entry draft and then free agency. Edmonton’s bad luck with Andrej Sekera’s injury has just one silver lining, that it occurred in front of free agency. The opportunity exists to address that issue with a short term free agent deal. I’m going to run through the procurement lists in a minute but want to start with Frank Seravalli’s list.

FRANK SERAVALLI FREE AGENT LIST

TSN has their free-agent list out and for Edmonton there is another chance to add some quality. Since Connor McDavid arrived in town, the Oilers have signed Andrej Sekera, Milan Lucic, Mark Letestu, Matt Benning and Drake Caggiula. That’s a lot of talent. How many of the men on Frank’s free agent list were already on mine? 16 of 30, and I have added two from Frank’s list (Tyler Pitlick, Jordan Weal). Here we go.

CURRENT TRADE ASSETS OUT

  1. Jordan Eberle
  2. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  3. Jesse Puljujarvi
  4. No. 22 overall
  5. Caleb Jones
  6. 2018 first-round selection
  7. Anton Slepyshev
  8. Jujhar Khaira
  9. Ethan Bear
  10. Griffin Reinhart

We’ve only just begun the process, with Jordan Eberle out in front. RNH was No. 1 a year ago at this time, Taylor Hall ended up being dealt. Eberle rumors are white hot right now, but things change. I’m reading Eberle-for-Strome, but the math on that deal is harsh for New York. This might work:

  • To New York: Jordan Eberle ($6 million times two, then UFA)
  • To Edmonton: Ryan Strome ($2.5 million times one, then RFA) and Jaroslav Halak ($4.5 million times one, then UFA).

Oilers take on $1 million this season but get out from under the $6 million owed Eberle in 2018-19. You may feel the trade doesn’t benefit Edmonton, but it gets Chiarelli free of Eberle’s money by this time next summer. It would represent a loss up front but upgrade the goalie position. It may also signal that Chiarelli knows Laurent Brossoit is a goner at the expansion draft. If all of this is true, extremely likely to occur in the hours after expansion.

TARGETS, DEFENSE

  1. RD Josh Manson, Anaheim Ducks. A dream solution to 2RHD.
  2. RD Radko Gudas, Philadelphia Flyers. Duck killer, if acquired.
  3. RD Alex Petrovic, Florida Panthers. Rugged D, good possession numbers.
  4. RD Travis Hamonic, NY Islanders. A rumored target.
  5. RD Mark Pysyk, Florida Panthers. Panthers young and emerging blue.
  6. RD Justin Faulk, Carolina Hurricanes. He brings a lot of offense, bigger ask obvious.
  7. RD Kevin Shattenkirk FREE AGENT (80gp, 13-43-56). One year at big coin?
  8. RD Sami  Vatanen, Anaheim Ducks. Talented, inconsistent.
  9. RD Jason Demers, Florida Panthers. Veteran D visited Edmonton as UFA last summer.
  10. LD Kris Russell FREE AGENT. GM and coach like him, good chance he’ll return.
  11. RD David Savard, Columbus. Rarely mentioned but an interesting option.
  12. RD Matt Dumba, Minnesota Wild. Power play option, chaos in his game.
  13. LD Ryan Murray, Columbus Blue Jackets. Doesn’t seem a fit.
  14. RD Cody Franson FREE AGENT. His fancy stats: Out of the blue and into the black.
  15. RD Tyson Barrie, Colorado Avalanche. He had a poor year, but has talent.
  16. LD Brian Campbell FREE AGENT (80gp, 5-12-17). The man can still wheel.
  17. LD Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins. Played over 23 minutes a game this past season.
  18. RD Michael Stone FREE AGENT (64gp, 3-12-15). Last chance Texaco.

Both the defensive and forward list are most desired to least desired, with all names on the list either players I would like or likely organization interest.

TARGETS, FORWARDS

  1. LC Matt Duchene, Colorado Avalanche. Please please please Baby Jesus.
  2. RC Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado Avalanche. UFA 2023. Would cost the moon.
  3. RC Tyler Johnson, Tampa Bay Lightning. RFA 2017. 56 points per 82 games.
  4. R Justin Williams FREE AGENT (80gp, 24-24-48). Luxury.
  5. R T.J. Oshie FREE AGENT (68gp, 33-23-56).  Not affordable.
  6. R Patrick Eaves FREE AGENT (79gp, 32-19-51). Volume shooter!
  7. LC Martin Hanzal FREE AGENT (71gp, 20-19-39). Has to be high priority.
  8. L Evander Kane, Buffalo Sabres (70gp, 28-15-43). Buy low power forward.
  9. RC Mika Zibanejad, New York Rangers. Averages 46 points per 82gp.
  10. C-R Ryan Strome, NY Islanders (69gp, 13-17-30). Rumors.
  11. LC Vladimir Sobotka, St. Louis Blues. Signed to a nifty $3.5 million times two.
  12. R-L Thomas Vanek FREE AGENT (68gp, 17-31-48). Offensive option.
  13. L Ilya Kovalchuk, New Jersey. Splendid KHL season, he’s coming back.
  14. R Radim Vrbata FREE AGENT (81gp, 20-35-55). Scorer.
  15. LC Nick Bonino FREE AGENT (80gp, 18-19-37). Two-way C.
  16. R Brett Ritchie, Dallas Stars (78gp, 16-8-24). Shoots the puck a lot.
  17. R Jaromir Jagr FREE AGENT (82gp, 16-30-46). Now 70, still going.
  18. R Sam Gagner FREE AGENT (81gp, 18-32-50). PP savant.
  19. R Kris Versteeg FREE AGENT (69gp, 15-22-37). What he brings has value.
  20. R Ales Hemsky FREE AGENT (15gp, 4-3-7). Still brilliantly creative.
  21. RC Derek Ryan FREE AGENT (67gp, 11-18-29). Fine utility player.
  22. LC Dominic Moore FREE AGENT (82gp, 11-14-25). PK and FO option.
  23. R Drew Stafford FREE AGENT (58gp, 8-13-21). Chiarelli type.
  24. LC Brian Boyle FREE AGENT (75gp, 13-12-25). He is on their list.
  25. R Brett Connolly FREE AGENT (66gp, 15-8-23). Inexpensive scoring on RW.
  26. R Jarome Iginla FREE AGENT (80gp, 14-13-27). He can still shoot the puck.
  27. L Patrick Sharp FREE AGENT. Depending on health and price.
  28. R Tyler Pitlick FREE AGENT (31gp, 8-3-11). Finally emerged, could return.
  29. R Jordan Weal FREE AGENT (23gp, 8-4-12). Eastern Pitlick.

Strome is mid-pack and an interesting option. He can play center, but his faceoff percentage is in the ditch and has been since NHL arrival. He is a skilled player and the Islanders have a ghastly development record, but the trade as described above is a salary dump. We should not expect Ryan Strome to outscore Jordan Eberle in 2017-18.

SCOTT CULLEN’S LIST

Scott Cullen’s off-season game plan for the Edmonton Oilers is a terrific piece of work and I recommend it. Using my list of needs, here’s what he came up with:

  1. Negotiate the expansion draft rapids without giving up a valuable piece of the future. (Lost Jujhar Khaira). 
  2. Find a way to trade Benoit Pouliot off the roster. (Kept him)
  3. Find a second pairing D with two-way acumen. (Travis Hamonic) 
  4. Find a stopgap measure to replace Andrej Sekera’s minutes until he returns. (Kris Russell)
  5. Find a C-R who can help the offense and cover off where Leon isn’t at the time. (Patrick Marleau)
  6. Make enough cap room to get everyone in under the number with enough room to spare for the trade deadline. (Traded Jordan Eberle)
  7. Source

He also added Derek Ryan to help with the faceoffs and Andrew Desjardins for depth up front, accomplishing more than I have tasked Peter Chiarelli. Great job as always by Cullen.

RUTTA WATCH OVER

Edmonton was mentioned as a possibility for Czech defender Jan Rutta, but Chicago often wins these races and once again got their man. He’ll have a calm wade into NHL hockey with plenty of quality depth in front of him. Edmonton continues its search.

RUMOURS

I wanted to remind you about that Frank Seravalli trade bait list I posted from June 3 a year ago, a list that did not contain Taylor Hall. It’s a spring for sure, we’ll know the man exiting by the end of this month. It may well be Jordan Eberle, and the return could be Strome, but it’s early and I would caution against getting wound up over a piece of information. I always wait for two sources, and in the one case we have heard it sounded (I did not hear it) like speculation as opposed to hard fact. We wait.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

We are live 10-noon at the Ranch Golf Course for the Fifteenth Annual TSN1260 Golf Tournament! Plenty of opportunities to have drop-in guests and we have a strong list of talent locked and loaded (well, locked). Scheduled to appear:

  • Darcy McLeod, Because Oilers. Darcy will slide his Rolls Royce into the visitor parking at the Ranch and take those stairs to the clubhouse two at a time. We’ll talk Eberle for Strome, what free agency might bring, and Darcy’s overall feeling about the summer.
  • Derek Taylor, CFL Details on TSN. The CFL pre-season schedule is underway and there’s plenty to talk about. Where does Derek see the Eskimos finishing this season?
  • Grant McCagg, Recrutes.ca. This site is the newest on the block among those I trust for prospect information and I highly recommend you grab the draft guide. Site is here, we’ll talk 2017 draft.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

 

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92 Responses to "TOOK HIM MINUTES, TOOK HER NOWHERE"

  1. Stud Muffin says:

    What makes that Strome deal better for Edmonton by throwing in a cap dump? New York can solve there own cap issue of Strome for Eberle happens.

  2. jake70 says:

    “The rumors are getting stronger, so far involving trades and the expansion draft. After that comes the entry draft and then free agency”

    Feel like David Lee Roth from Hot for Teacher: “Oh man I think the clock is slow”

    Get this cup done already…not much interest in it personally,

  3. Rondo says:

    LT,

    Can you ask Grant McCagg about Joshua Norris? He has Edmonton taking Erik Brannstrom. Also he has Eeli Tolvanen ranked #24 , I think he is a goal scorer but not much else.

  4. 36 percent body fat says:

    LT,
    I know its not the best option, but if the Eberle for Hamonic deal goes down, and there is no deal of Foo;

    What does Gagner sign for. What we he look like on a Drai or Connor right side, and running the second pp? or on the 4th line like in columbus. I know he is not an ideal center, but considering the 3 that would be ahead of him in limited minutes and situations filling in as a center when need adds depth.

    Also dont know why FOO would do it, but ideally he signs here and starts in Bakersfield.

  5. admiralmark says:

    LT forgive me if you’ve already covered this. But what is the current scouting report on Strome? Is he tracking as a 2nd line player? Are there up arrows? Or is there potential he is not even NHL caliber? As far as I can see he had a very good rookie season and has struggled since. He certainly doesnt look like he will be covering his draft pedigree. Maybe I don’t have a good handle on Stromes potential but I honestly cant see why Chiarelli would see how Strome solves any of his problems at the F positions. Eberle with all his warts produces in a range that qualifies him as a bonafide 2RW at least. If this move is made and Chiarelli is also forced to even out the $$ going each way it further establishes how asinine this deal appears to be.

  6. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    I don’t really understand what it is that LB needs to do to earn his shot. He posted a .928 last year. That’s better than anything Halak has done in 3 years.

    I know, I know, limited sample. But he can only play the games he’s given, and he did, and he did it well. Why would we be interested in running away from that?

    We can always go get an aging overpaid former started mid season if he struggles. Hell, I bet we could get one of Halak , or Cam Ward, or Anti Niemi, or Kari Lehtonen, or M.A. Fleury, or Jonathan Bernier, or James Reimer, or Eddie Lack, or Steve Mason, or Thomas Greiss, for quite literally nothing in January next year if we decide we want to… and that assumes both LB and Ellis have blown their opportunities.

    Strome has underperformed pretty much his whole career and his only appeal is the phantom of his upside (he’s not that young for a winger) and his relative low cost. Acquiring Eberle is a move to help convince their franchise player to stick around. Eberle for Strome straight up is still, even with money age and all the rest of it, arguably a loss for the Oilers. We don’t need to take Halak and I believe Chiarelli agrees.

  7. Truth says:

    Eberle for Strome and Halak would rival the Reinhart trade in stupidity, IMO. They’d be clearing cap space to acquire one far lesser player and a cap anchor. Unless Hamonic is in the trade (or similar) the Oilers should stay far away from Snow.

  8. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Eberle and Jones/Bear for Hamonic and Strome wouldn’t be too bad. If Hamonic has fully recovered from his injuries and they project Strome as able to become a centre.

  9. stush18 says:

    Jan Rutta signed with Chicago. Guess we missed that train. Smart move by him

  10. N64 says:

    36 percent body fat: but if the Eberle for Hamonic deal goes down, and there is no deal of Foo

    If that goes down before the expansion draft there better be a deal with Phee.

  11. Jordan says:

    If Ebs moves to long island and it’s not for Harmonic straight up, I don’t know why you make the move without a sweetener. Strome isn’t worth enough to keep salary back, and Halak is hot garbage. I wouldn’t give Jones for sStrome and Hammy without NYI fist coming back too. Both EDM players are better than NYi players in that trade.

    Looks like a Snowjob to me.

  12. Brantford Boy says:

    I like the following D:
    RD Radko Gudas, Philadelphia Flyers. Duck killer, if acquired.
    RD Alex Petrovic, Florida Panthers. Rugged D, good possession numbers.
    RD Travis Hamonic, NY Islanders. A rumored target.

    And these forwards:
    R Patrick Eaves FREE AGENT (79gp, 32-19-51). Volume shooter!
    R Radim Vrbata FREE AGENT (81gp, 20-35-55). Scorer.
    RC Derek Ryan FREE AGENT (67gp, 11-18-29). Fine utility player.

    Based on my personal preference it looks like we must trade for the D and sign a FA forward. I do like the thought of Derek Ryan for 3C/R, this gives the coach options. To bad Wayne Simmonds really turned his career around (30+ goals x2) since the rumours of Eberle for Simmonds were hot. Be a nice package for Gudas and Simmonds.

  13. Ducey says:

    So we know:

    1) The Oilers do not need to trade Eberle at all this season in order to get under the cap
    2) The Oilers have no huge problems with their expansion list
    3) Eberle is a much better player than Strome (box cars 69 13 17 30 vs 82 20 31 51)
    4) Halak was so great last year that he spent 1/2 the season in the AHL at age 31
    5) The Islanders do have problems with their expansion list

    From this we conclude that it would be a good idea to trade Eberle for Halak and Strome?

    The Oilers are in a position of strength here. Status quo suits Chia just fine. It is Snow that needs to knuckle under.

    I do not like Strome at all. I think there is a decent chance that Kassian and Slepyshev could out boxcar him next season if they were given the same minutes. On top of that, he plays with all the gritensity of Sam Gagner. Perhaps that is impacting my assessment.

    But I would be very unhappy with that deal.

  14. RyMosh4 says:

    A random question on Kassian that I’m sorry if people have already asked: if he’s left exposed (perhaps because we’ve made an Eberle-for-Hamonic deal) is there any chance Vegas doesn’t take him simply for human element reasons? The guy has found sobriety and personal (on and off the ice) success in Edmonton, they’d have to think twice before asking him to live in Vegas, wouldn’t they?

  15. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Ducey:
    So we know:

    1) The Oilers do not need to trade Eberle at all this season in order to get under the cap
    2) The Oilers have no huge problems with their expansion list
    3) Eberle is a much better player than Strome (box cars 69 13 17 30 vs 82 20 31 51)
    4) Halak was so great last year that he spent 1/2 the season in the AHL at age 31
    5) The Islanders do have problems with their expansion list

    From this we conclude that it would be a good idea to trade Eberle for Halak and Strome?

    The Oilers are in a position of strength here. Status quo suits Chia just fine. It is Snow that needs to knuckle under.

    I do not like Strome at all. I think there is a decent chance that Kassian and Slepyshev could out boxcar him next season if they were given the same minutes. On top of that, he plays with all the gritensity of Sam Gagner. Perhaps that is impacting my assessment.

    But I would be very unhappy with that deal.

    If he plays light I doubt Chia wants him. But if he can play 3C his boxcars and cap hit are fine. As a winger that is not a good pick up as you said they have that type of players already in Kassian, Slep, JP, Pitlick. I’d rather sign Versteeg.

  16. magneto says:

    RyMosh4,

    Correct me if I am wrong but if Kassian is an RFA then Vegas gets that window to talk to him. If they talk to him and get the feeling that he wouldn’t excel there, or if he tells them that it would be a bad fit, then I don’t think they would pick him. There is the idea that they would pick him with interest in flipping him to a better landing spot

  17. Bruce McCurdy says:

    RyMosh4:
    A random question on Kassian that I’m sorry if people have already asked: if he’s left exposed (perhaps because we’ve made an Eberle-for-Hamonic deal) is there any chance Vegas doesn’t take him simply for human element reasons?The guy has found sobriety and personal (on and off the ice) success in Edmonton, they’d have to think twice before asking him to live in Vegas, wouldn’t they?

    Getting picked by Vegas & playing in Vegas are two different items. There will be a lot of moving pieces both coming & going. If Vegas were to pick Kassian I daresay there would be a trade market for him.

  18. Ducey says:

    To be fair to Strome and those proposing the trade I note that Strome had 16 points in 30 games under Doug Weight. That’s .533 p/g which is better than the rest of his season (.358). That is still miles away from what Eberle put up in a “down” year (.621).

  19. Barcs says:

    I’m sorry, I’m getting caught up and I was wondering if anyone could tell me where the source for Strome for Eberle came from? Bob?

  20. Ducey says:

    Then again:

    Ryan Strome was benched in the third period for ‘poor defense’.

    Interim head coach Doug Weight was not happy with the lack of effort that Strome gave on Ivan Provorov’s tying goal in the third and benched him for the next three shifts at even strength before he was put on the ice for a power play. “He had a chance to shoot there and he didn’t. That’s human error; you can live with that,” Weight said. “I was more upset with the track [defensively]. It’s a play you’ve got to make, get to the middle, protect that good ice. Stromie knows. He sat a couple shifts and went out for the power play, and we should’ve had one there.”

  21. Ducey says:

    Barcs:
    I’m sorry, I’m getting caught up and I was wondering if anyone could tell me where the source for Strome for Eberle came from? Bob?

    He didn’t name anyone. Just a player who had a couple of years where he didn’t meet expectations offensively.

  22. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Truth,

    Ducey,

    My theory is that this is being drummed up by those who cannot stomach last years “trade” and need something that’s odd to continue their visceral dislike of Chia despite the on-ice success of this year. Or maybe there is serious upside to Strome that I am missing.

    I have a whole lot of time for Eberle-Hamonic deal, don’t know if I would add to it though but could consider the possibility of taking Halak off their hands (if Brossoit is lost to expansion) rather than retaining salary, and would maybe consider adding a Jones/Bear but would rather a draft pick (no favours after they screwed us with Reinhart).

    I really don’t like that Hamonic has never played more than 73 games in a season though and last years injuries do concern me. The Metropolitan isn’t exactly a cake walk the Pacific is still the most physical division in the NHL, the timing of his yearly 10 game absence would weigh on the price I’d be willing to pay.

    Islanders have a lot of contracts that come off the books after next year so Eberle’s contract shouldn’t be a killer outside of the 2017/2018 season and the Oil will need all the flexibility in the world when CmD and Leon’s 2nd contracts are both in gear.

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Russel – Hamonic
    Nurse – Benning

    That’s not half bad and after the playoff’s I could see players on pairings 2 and 3 being able to swap based on the style of the opposition if progress continues to be made. You then have Russell as insurance or trade bait at the deadline once Sekera comes back. Might be a bit pie in the sky though.

  23. Barcs says:

    My only problem with Duchene is how short his contract is. We wouldn’t be able to re-sign him after the two years.

    Would love MacKinnon on the Oilers, and would give up a lot to get him.

    RHC that can also play the wing, good shot, lightning speed, signed at just over 6M for the next 6 years, only 21.

    Does Nuge, Nurse, and 22OV do it? Probably not. Nuge, Nurse, and JP? Feels like too much.

    Will never happen, but a guy can dream.

  24. Barcs says:

    Ducey,

    I see. Thank you.

  25. John Chambers says:

    jake70,

    Are you not watching the Cup Final?

    You are missing some entertaining hockey.

  26. oilcanharry says:

    On his podcast, Bob McKenzie speculated that the Lightning would have to trade one of Palat, Johnson and Drouin. His non-professional guess (“just bullshtting with you”) was that Drouin was the most likely to go. They need defencemen, and are a cap team looking for room. What about offering Darnell Nurse and the Oilers’ 1st round pick for him?

    Drouin can play right wing, and would allow the Oilers to trade Jordan Eberle. I liked Darnell Nurse’s season, but I would be willing to give Griffin Reinhart a shot at NHL employment. Drouin’s contract would be a problem, but if we trade Eberle for a medium prospect, his cap could be used on Drouin.

  27. RexLibris says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Getting picked by Vegas & playing in Vegas are two different items. There will be a lot of moving pieces both coming & going. If Vegas were to pick Kassian I daresay there would be a trade market for him.

    I think CGY would be very interested in Kassian. They are looking to add RW depth and he plays their style perfectly. Plucking Kassian off EDM’s roster and flipping him to the Flames could net McPhee a nice return from Treliving.

  28. Coffeys_Messy_eh says:

    Britches, Fussy tweeted this morning something along the lines that Eberle has asked to be moved rather than play out the last year of his deal in Edmonton. While I have no idea why he would ever do such a thing, if it’s true it changes everything. Such requests end up with Ladislav Smid and Joffrey Lupul for Chris Pronger.

  29. Bag of Pucks says:

    If the Isles are the dance partner, I’d much prefer they target Ho-Sang over Strome. Saw signs last season that Ho-Sang, the former malcontent, was getting things sorted out and starting to fulfill some of that upper echelon offensive talent he has. Also like the fact he gives you that additional C/RW option ala Leon.

    I’ve got an old issue of Hockey News from a few years back and in it they compare McDavid and Ho-Sang, deliberating who will ultimately become the better player as a pro. That’s how good he was at bantam age. Hard to believe now given how he slid at the draft, but there was a time in Josh’s past when he was legitimately forecast to be ‘The Next One.’

  30. dustrock says:

    oilcanharry:
    On his podcast, Bob McKenzie speculated that the Lightning would have to trade one of Palat, Johnson and Drouin.His non-professional guess (“just bullshtting with you”) was that Drouin was the most likely to go.They need defencemen, and are a cap team looking for room.What about offering Darnell Nurse and the Oilers’ 1st round pick for him?

    Drouin can play right wing, and would allow the Oilers to trade Jordan Eberle.I liked Darnell Nurse’s season, but I would be willing to give Griffin Reinhart a shot at NHL employment.Drouin’s contract would be a problem, but if we trade Eberle for a medium prospect, his cap could be used on Drouin.

    Would we have to add to Nurse to get Drouin? Really?

  31. Ribs says:

    All the talk about Kassian and Las Vegas and I’m reminded of this article where he says spending his summer months in Santa Monica instead of going home to Windsor really helped him with his issues. Maybe his safe place isn’t so far from those Vegas lights after all…

  32. RexLibris says:

    Drouin is a pretty talented winger playing 1st line minutes.

    Nurse is playing 3rd pairing minutes, pushing towards 2nd.

    That isn’t fair value for Yzerman on a straight swap.

    Oilers would have to add, in my opinion.

    I suspect any team looking to trade for Drouin is going to have a hard time convincing Yzerman to part with him.

  33. jake70 says:

    John Chambers:
    jake70,

    Are you not watching the Cup Final?

    You are missing some entertaining hockey.

    Yeah I am hearing it’s pretty good……still bitter over the 3-0 meltdown to the ducks…. 😉 I’ll tune in with 5 min left in the clinching game, tune out while Bettman gets booed doing his s-cup speech, then tune back in for the on-ice interviews…..

  34. Bag of Pucks says:

    I’m probably the only one in this camp, but when I look at a potential Eberle deal, this is what I think…

    1) If he can bring you back a legitimate 2nd pairing D, then by all means, do this instead of re-signing Russell.
    2) If he can’t, I would much prefer we trade him for a 3C that plays an elite 200ft game.

    My rationale for the latter is this:

    1) If you’re planning 3 moves ahead, you have to forecast Puli as the eventual 1RW (he’s got the pedigree to rationalize that) and you’ve got a nice battle shaping up a camp btw Pitlick, Cag and Sleppy for that 2W. And of course, Leon, should the RW depth fail us again

    2) Eberle is a one dimensional player, and that dimension came largely against weaker opps last season. IMO, if you can trade a one dimensional offensive player for a dominant two way player who may offer less offensive upside but is overall a complete player, that’s a win – particularly when it comes to playoff competition.

    3) Of equal importance, getting a strong 3C then sets you up to trial RNH on the wing, and if that audition does not go well, you’ve backfilled the 3C slot enabling you to trade Nuge next offseason when the real salary crunch starts.

    Haven’t the Flyers always coveted Eberle? Couturier for Ebs?

  35. magneto says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Flyers will be getting a shiny new centre at the draft this year…..
    Would they rather trade Schenn (494 FOs 47% 5.125mx3) or Couturier (1066 FOs 55.1% 4.33mx5)

    Eberle for Schenn would probably be easier to swing

  36. RexLibris says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I don’t think this is entirely unreasonable.

    I’ve long said I’d like to see a bolstered center and defense depth chart and then fill in the wings with available add-ons.

    I like Eberle and believe that a team is better with him than without, but if he nets a return of a proven 2nd pairing RD (I often go back to Hamonic) that means that Russell is out the door and the top four is as solid as it has been in well over a decade. That not only saves them from a season-limiting roster decision (re-signing Russell) but also solidifies a key element of the roster (and in Hamonic’s case at an overall cost savings).

    That said, finding a 3C who can play heavier competition is also a very serious benefit, albeit one I’d rather resolve using other assets.

  37. --hudson-- says:

    oilcanharry:
    On his podcast, Bob McKenzie speculated that the Lightning would have to trade one of Palat, Johnson and Drouin.His non-professional guess (“just bullshtting with you”) was that Drouin was the most likely to go.They need defencemen, and are a cap team looking for room.What about offering Darnell Nurse and the Oilers’ 1st round pick for him?

    Drouin can play right wing, and would allow the Oilers to trade Jordan Eberle.I liked Darnell Nurse’s season, but I would be willing to give Griffin Reinhart a shot at NHL employment.Drouin’s contract would be a problem, but if we trade Eberle for a medium prospect, his cap could be used on Drouin.

    Thanks for reporting! I would be interested in any of those guys. Tyler Johnson would probably be the easiest to get since his production the last couple years has been so poor. Actually connecting the dots, he may be the guy that Bob Stauffer is talking about. He needs a new deal this summer, if he can recover from his injury he would be perfect in the Letestu trigger spot and he could play at McDavids pace.

    Tampa has quite a few cap anchors – Ryan Callahan (3 years left), Jason Garrison (1 year), Coburn (2 years) all with NMC or NTC. If the Oilers could give them some cap relief, it would be nice to get Johnson and maybe a prospect like Taylor Raddysh.

  38. Doug McLachlan says:

    On the Eberle for Strome rumours.

    I get that we like to think the worst of our GM but his trade history, from what I gather, reveals his Persian flaw to be a penchant for overpayment, yes, but overpayment in the service of GETTING something Chia wants.

    Strome, as the centerpiece of a trade for the Oilers – not just and Eberle trade – makes no sense to me as a trade target. He never hit 35 goals in Junior. He’s average height and weight and is on an expiring contract where the player will have arbitration rights. If the proposed GET for the Oilers is a salary dump – I am not convinced that Eberle is the most glaring cap issue on the team (*cough* Pouliot *cough*) – and even then the cap crunch for the Oilers isn’t an issue for this season but rather next, right?

    Now I could see Strome as a piece coming back as part of an Eberle-Hamonic deal. Such a trade makes sense for Snow in that the Islanders want to recoup value for a likely Vegas poaching of one of their D (Boychuk NMC, Leddy, Hamonic, DeHaan). Trade Hamonic for Eberle and then they can go 7-3-1. Yes they would still have to expose a promising AHL d man in Poluck but far, far more desirable than exposing DeHaan.

    The cap issue for the Islanders is $6.357M out for $6.0M in (in actual dollars it’s over a $1M more money out which is also a plus for the Islanders as every $ counts).

    I am probably overvaluing Eberle but this seems a more reasonable explanation for Strome being part of the discussion – part of an Eberle deal not the centerpiece of it.

  39. Ducey says:

    –hudson–: Thanks for reporting!I would be interested in any of those guys.Tyler Johnson would probably be the easiest to get since his production the last couple years has been so poor.Actually connecting the dots, he may be the guy that Bob Stauffer is talking about.He needs a new deal this summer, if he can recover from his injury he would be perfect in the Letestu trigger spot and he could play at McDavids pace.

    Tampa has quite a few cap anchors – Ryan Callahan (3 years left), Jason Garrison (1 year), Coburn (2 years) all with NMC or NTC.If the Oilers could give them some cap relief, it would be nice to get Johnson and maybe a prospect like Taylor Raddysh.

    Johnson had more pts per game last year than Eberle. 45 in 66. Ebs had 51 in 82.

    Can’t see TB wanting to take on Eberle’s salary for less production.

  40. Cassandra says:

    Jordan Eberle is a lot closer to Matt Duchene than he is to Strome or Ho-sang.

  41. Ryan says:

    Coffeys_Messy_eh,

    But he has two years left on his deal?

  42. Thinker says:

    I think we as fans have a poor idea of what value is. The Reinhart trade was bad, but he was barely on the job, and I think he was given bad info on identifying a player. When I first heard the Hall trade on the radio, it was before the commercial break, and “they said Hall has been dealt for Larsson.” I waited for about ten minutes wondering what else we got. Now I look back on it, and see why the cost was what it was. I wouldn’t trade Larsson for a winger today. Moving a top end Dman ruins a team, which is why they are so hard to get.

    Was combing AHL website recently and got sad again. Lander is the highest ppg of any player over 10 games played. Damn shame he can’t play anywhere on our roster. I will never understand how he couldn’t even be a 4line pk guy.

  43. Ryan says:

    Scungilli Slushy,

    Strome is is only a little better than the old Oilers version of Cogliano on face offs.

  44. Ryan says:

    Ryan:
    Scungilli Slushy,

    Strome is is only a little better than the old Oilers version of Cogliano on face offs.

    If you ran McDavid – Nuge – Strome down the middle next season, it would provide the analytics folks some fascinating data on the effect losing face offs has on scoring and possession metrics.

  45. stush18 says:

    Ducey:
    So we know:

    1) The Oilers do not need to trade Eberle at all this season in order to get under the cap
    2) The Oilers have no huge problems with their expansion list
    3) Eberle is a much better player than Strome (box cars 69 13 17 30 vs 82 20 31 51)
    4) Halak was so great last year that he spent 1/2 the season in the AHL at age 31
    5) The Islanders do have problems with their expansion list

    From this we conclude that it would be a good idea to trade Eberle for Halak and Strome?

    The Oilers are in a position of strength here. Status quo suits Chia just fine. It is Snow that needs to knuckle under.

    I do not like Strome at all. I think there is a decent chance that Kassian and Slepyshev could out boxcar him next season if they were given the same minutes. On top of that, he plays with all the gritensity of Sam Gagner. Perhaps that is impacting my assessment.

    But I would be very unhappy with that deal.

    There is no way this is the deal. I’m guessing it’s a rumour floated out by someone. It makes absolutey zero sense. I’m guessing it’s more along the lines of hamonic + kulemin for eberle.

  46. stush18 says:

    Thinker:
    I think we as fans have a poor idea of what value is. The Reinhart trade was bad, but he was barely on the job, and I think he was given bad info on identifying a player. When I first heard the Hall trade on the radio, it was before the commercial break, and “they said Hall has been dealt for Larsson.” I waited for about ten minutes wondering what else we got. Now I look back on it, and see why the cost was what it was. I wouldn’t trade Larsson for a winger today. Moving a top end Dman ruins a team, which is why they are so hard to get.

    Was combing AHL website recently and got sad again. Lander is the highest ppg of any player over 10 games played. Damn shame he can’t play anywhere on our roster. I will never understand how he couldn’t even be a 4line pk guy.

    I never understood why he was not given a shot with top end
    Players. His wowys usually looked good, he’s actually a decent possession player, and he puts up top numbers in the AHL.

    To put it another way, if you are not planning on utilizing a player in the same manner in the NHL, don’t waste time on him in the minors doing exactly that.

  47. stush18 says:

    RexLibris:
    Drouin is a pretty talented winger playing 1st line minutes.

    Nurse is playing 3rd pairing minutes, pushing towards 2nd.

    That isn’t fair value for Yzerman on a straight swap.

    Oilers would have to add, in my opinion.

    I suspect any team looking to trade for Drouin is going to have a hard time convincing Yzerman to part with him.

    Agreed. If I think he would move anyone from Tampa, I Johnson would be the target because he has arbitration this summer.

    I would def try to swing for Tyler Johnson. In fact I hope they do. He would be a perfect addition, a better version of strome imo.

    I don’t know that we have the pieces to make it work however. What do you think a deal would look like?

    I’m guessing Jones + but I dunno what the + is.

  48. harryhooters says:

    really hope PC doesnt do a Strome for Ebs deal. Not enough for a proven top 6 RW and consistant 20 goal scorer. Better off keeping him. If PC should deal with Snow, player they should target is Josh Ho Sang. Has had question marks around his maturity, but the skill level is there. He plays all three forward positions and the best part…he has chemistry with 97.

  49. Glass says:

    Eberle for Strome only makes sense if we swap 1st round draft picks as well. With #15 we have a more surefire way of grabbing a great prospect… rather than betting on Yamamoto lol

  50. Scungilli Slushy says:

    stush18: I never understood why he was not given a shot with top end
    Players. His wowys usually looked good, he’s actually a decent possession player, and he puts up top numbers in the AHL.

    To put it another way, if you are not planning on utilizing a player in the same manner in the NHL, don’t waste time on him in the minors doing exactly that.

    I think it has to do with assertiveness. A lot of young guys float around on the perimeter of the play. Lander seemed like that to me (I’m a fan of him) and he is also a bit slow.

    The players they like get after things, right or wrong. Pak, Pitlick, Caggiula, Benning. To get noticed they have to forecheck effectively and do something unless they can score, which takes time for most young guys when they come up.

    Strome having D issues at his age is exactly normal, as is the benching (short one) as a motivator. The concern with him is whether he plays ‘heavy’. Perimeter players or those that don’t find contact are frowned upon by most teams, again unless they are scoring a lot regularly. Score or play the physical game or better both.

  51. Doug McLachlan says:

    Jumping to the Entry Draft for a moment, not sure if people have had a look at Craig Button’s final rankings.

    http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-hischier-edges-patrick-in-final-ranking-1.772654

    LT’s spirited defense of Button’s experience and the strength of his convictions has helped me to get past my initial dismissal of his rankings. I’m sure we will revisit this list soon but some of the names he ranks in and around the Oilers’ selection are simply stunning, IMO.

    Rasmussen at 21
    Lipanov at 22
    Tippett at 23 ?!?!
    Kostin at 24
    Norris at 25
    and
    Vesalainen at 26

    The Oilers would be thrilled were these players still available with their pick coming up, no?

    Seriously, I was watching Tippett fall over the last few Button lists but 23 is insane. The article doesn’t go into why but I understood there were real concerns about his hockey IQ and how that manifested when he did not have the puck.

  52. stush18 says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I think it has to do with assertiveness. A lot of young guys float around on the perimeter of the play. Lander seemed like that to me (I’m a fan of him) and he is also a bit slow.

    The players they like get after things, right or wrong. Pak, Pitlick, Caggiula, Benning. To get noticed they have to forecheck effectively and do something unless they can score, which takes time for most young guys when they come up.

    Strome having D issues at his age is exactly normal, as is the benching (short one) as a motivator. The concern with him is whether he plays ‘heavy’. Perimeter players or those that don’t find contact are frowned upon by most teams, again unless they are scoring a lot regularly. Score or play the physical game or better both.

    I agree skating is an issue. But for me, I think lander is one of the best at cycling and winning board battles in the NHL.

    If Sam gagner can find a role as a PP specialist, surely lander can? He would be you’re main faceoff guy, and play net front, like Nelson had him doing here. I honestly can’t see a reason he couldn’t make it in the NHL.

  53. stush18 says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    Jumping to the Entry Draft for a moment, not sure if people have had a look at Craig Button’s final rankings.

    http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-hischier-edges-patrick-in-final-ranking-1.772654

    LT’s spirited defense of Button’s experience and the strength of his convictions has helped me to get past my initial dismissal of his rankings.I’m sure we will revisit this list soon but some of the names he ranks in and around the Oilers’ selection are simply stunning, IMO.

    Rasmussen at 21
    Lipanov at 22
    Tippett at 23 ?!?!
    Kostin at 24
    Norris at 25
    and
    Vesalainen at 26

    The Oilers would be thrilled were these players still available with their pick coming up, no?

    Seriously, I was watching Tippett fall over the last few Button lists but 23 is insane.The article doesn’t go into why but I understood there were real concerns about his hockey IQ and how that manifested when he did not have the puck.

    I would be thrilled with kostin. I typically don’t agree with buttons list. Imo he always goes for a “wow” moment on his lists. I can’t really decide how he’s ranking either.

  54. McNuge93 says:

    harryhooters:
    really hope PC doesnt do a Strome for Ebs deal. Not enough for a proven top 6 RW and consistant 20 goal scorer. Better off keeping him. If PC should deal with Snow, player they should target is Josh Ho Sang. Has had question marks around his maturity, but the skill level is there. He plays all three forward positions and the best part…he has chemistry with 97.

    Agreed. Ebs for Strome does not make us a better team. I know it helps the cap situation but the goal should also be to improve the team. And not necessarily match Ebs scoring but give us something we need. A two way, face-off winning C/winger or a 2RD.

  55. Chachi says:

    Cassandra:
    Jordan Eberle is a lot closer to Matt Duchene than he is to Strome or Ho-sang.

    I don’t think he’s friends with any of them.

  56. Ducey says:

    stush18: I agree skating is an issue. But for me, I think lander is one of the best at cycling and winning board battles in the NHL.

    If Sam gagner can find a role as a PP specialist, surely lander can? He would be you’re main faceoff guy, and play net front, like Nelson had him doing here. I honestly can’t see a reason he couldn’t make it in the NHL.

    The Oilers have Lucic and Maroon playing LW on the PP. The results speak for themselves.

    Unless you are saying he should be the C on the PP, in which case, I think Nuge, Leon and McDavid might be defensible choices

    In TMac’s first season, he played Lander 50 minutes on the PP. Not a lot, but he didn’t piss a drop. He only managed 6 shots.

    Add that to the 2 goals and 5 points he scored in the last 83 games, and well, I think you might have some trouble winning an argument that he has been misjudged as having no offense.

    There are a ton of veteran guys who can put up AHL points. Look at Ryan Hamilton. Eakins gave him a spin. Could not keep up. Unfortunately, Anton looks like one of them.

  57. N64 says:

    Doug McLachlan: LT’s spirited defense of Button’s experience and the strength of his convictions has helped me to get past my initial dismissal of his rankings. I’m sure we will revisit this list soon but some of the names he ranks in and around the Oilers’ selection are simply stunning, IMO.

    It’s not a consensus list. If he knocks players down to our range it does not mean much for us.
    So look at his list the other way round and take a close look at player he zooms up from around our pick to much higher in his rankings. Gold, Jerry.

  58. Doug McLachlan says:

    N64,

    Excellent point.

  59. dustrock says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    Jumping to the Entry Draft for a moment, not sure if people have had a look at Craig Button’s final rankings.

    http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-hischier-edges-patrick-in-final-ranking-1.772654

    LT’s spirited defense of Button’s experience and the strength of his convictions has helped me to get past my initial dismissal of his rankings.I’m sure we will revisit this list soon but some of the names he ranks in and around the Oilers’ selection are simply stunning, IMO.

    Rasmussen at 21
    Lipanov at 22
    Tippett at 23 ?!?!
    Kostin at 24
    Norris at 25
    and
    Vesalainen at 26

    The Oilers would be thrilled were these players still available with their pick coming up, no?

    Seriously, I was watching Tippett fall over the last few Button lists but 23 is insane.The article doesn’t go into why but I understood there were real concerns about his hockey IQ and how that manifested when he did not have the puck.

    Doug here’s a look at the various ranking Canucks Army posted a while back. It’s going to be an extremely weird draft. But Tippett that low is insane.

    https://canucksarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/05/top-31-variance-5-may-171.png

    Here’s from the OHL Prospects Blog on Tippett, who he has just behind Vilardi

    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2017/05/my-final-top-50-ohl-players-for-2017_16.html

    In a lot of ways, Tippett is the antithesis of Vilardi, the player he’s gone head to head with all year for the top spot in these OHL rankings. He’s a pure goal scorer who possesses speed and skill as a North/South player, but lacks the cerebral component that drives Vilardi’s effectiveness. Tippett has the best shot of any player in the OHL, no offense meant to Debrincat, Mascherin, or Sokolov. Everything about it is elite. Lightning quick release that consistently catches defenders and goalies off guard, even though they know his reputation for shooting at any time. Great velocity on his wrist shot.

    Tremendous ability to protect the puck and use defenders as screens coming down the wing. And the utmost confidence to shoot from anywhere and everywhere. Tippett also possesses great speed. Once he gets going down the wing, he’s very hard to stop, especially because you’re also trying to take away space from him so that he can’t get off his shot. I think his first few steps looked a bit slower this year as he added some weight, but I expect that as he continues to become better conditioned, he will develop into a terrific skater at the pro level. So you’ve got an explosive sniper with size.

    In a lot of ways, I see Tippett possessing a Peter Bondra esque type of ability and potential at the NHL level. The negatives have been much discussed.

    His defensive awareness and overall play without the puck needs to improve. But, I do think that it has improved already from his rookie year and from the start of this season. He has even flashed a desire to engage physically this year and throw his weight around. I think his play without the puck will continue to improve.

    I think the real area of concern is his hockey sense and ability to utilize his teammates. Too often the play dies on his stick and he’s not able to extend possession in the offensive zone because he fails to find an open teammate and loses poise/patience with the puck. I think this is especially evident on the powerplay, as I find him to be a more effective 5 on 5 player right now. Is this something that will develop? That remains to be seen. Harnessing this will also make him a better goal scorer.

    Let’s be real, the goals he scores by catching defenders and goalies off guard in the OHL, won’t be goals at the next level. He’s going to have to work harder to find the dirty areas and work the middle of the ice better to be a consistent goal scorer at the NHL level. But in a draft year that lacks true star potential, Tippett has to remain a top 10 pick because of the goal scoring potential he possesses and ultimately, that’s what wins hockey games. You can listen to Tippett’s segment on The Pipeline Show, here.

    **********************

    Sounds like either Peter Bondra or Nail Yakupov.

  60. dustrock says:

    N64: It’s not a consensus list. If he knocks players down to our range it does not mean much for us.
    So look at his list the other way round and take a close look at player he zooms up from around our pick to much higher in his rankings. Gold, Jerry.

    He has Poehling at #9. He is not going that high but part of me thinks he could be Getzlaf in a few years.

    Glass at #7. Suzuki at #10.

  61. stush18 says:

    Ducey: The Oilers have Lucic and Maroon playing LW on the PP. The results speak for themselves.

    Unless you are saying he should be the C on the PP, in which case, I think Nuge, Leon and McDavid might be defensible choices

    In TMac’s first season, he played Lander 50 minutes on the PP. Not a lot, but he didn’t piss a drop. He only managed 6 shots.

    Add that to the 2 goals and 5 points he scored in the last 83 games, and well, I think you might have some trouble winning an argument that he has been misjudged as having no offense.

    There are a ton of veteran guys who can put up AHL points. Look at Ryan Hamilton. Eakins gave him a spin. Could not keep up. Unfortunately, Anton looks like one of them.

    Those were mostly spare minutes on the PP. He was not featured like he was with Nelson. But I agree, lander missed his opportunity last year. He was given a shot, although not much, and couldn’t produce.

    But I think with 31 teams in the NHL, someone should have been able to spot his elite AHL numbers, his faceoff ability, possession numbers and his defensive ability, that someone couldn’t have found him a spot to be successful like Sam gagner.

    I don’t think you could convince me that he was a worse skater, worse defensively, or weaker along the boards than Sam.

  62. --hudson-- says:

    Ducey: Johnson had more pts per game last year than Eberle. 45 in 66. Ebs had 51 in 82.

    Can’t see TB wanting to take on Eberle’s salary for less production.

    Yeah I don’t think Tampa would be interested in Eberle, but I think Edmonton would be interested in Tyler Johnson. For a deal to work between Edmonton and Tampa, the Oilers could only offer either cap relief or a defender. Tampa can probably replace Johnson’s production in-house with their youth.

  63. jtblack says:

    The fallout to come ….. IF Eberle is moved, which it is looking like will happen in the next 30 days, it seems like Chia will be burned at the Stake (IE: Hall 2.0) …..

    Right or wrong, Eberle is clearly not a favorite of TMac … and maybe not PC either … As a Boss or a company or GM/Coach of a team, you want players or empoyees in your system that you LIKE / TRUST … If they don’t believe Ebs is one of “their” guys, they are moving on from him and will do the best they can to get pieces back that help the team AND also give cap flexibility to make other roster moves to help the team …

    PC made a lot of changes in year 1 of his tenure … Last year he stayed fairly quiet. I think this year that even after an Eberle deal, we will see at least 2 – 4 other deals leading up to the trade deadline.

    I think PC has a plan and knows what holes he needs to fill … Assuming Ebs is moved, I think JP will be giving ample opportunity to “fill” that 20 Goal space. If JP is not up to the challenge, then PC will grab a vrbata type or eaves type at the deadline. I also think he will busy making sure the Oilers are solid at Centre, and have a #2RD ….

    Eberle will probably go, but there will be other deals to follow. Once the off season is complete, then we will have a clear picture of how this roster looks …

  64. Cassandra says:

    jtblack,

    I think this is fairy close to the truth. The problem with Chiarelli trading Eberle is that Chiarelli doesn’t value Eberle, and will settle for whatever chump change he can get just to be rid of him. Then the spin will come out about how valuable cap space is, which Chiarelli will promptly waste. We’ve seen this movie before.

    You can’t get value for your assets when you don’t value them yourself, and Chiarelli and Oiler fans in general, massively undervalued Hall, and having turned their bitter knives on him, now look to Eberle. If traded, the Oilers aren’t going to get anything of value for him.*

    *Strome, Ho-Sang, Cizikas, any pick below the first round, none of these things have any real value.

    Here is a question for the group. The Senators have the worst general manager in the league, even worse than Chiarelli and Bergevin. Yet the Senators made it to the Eastern Final.

    Which of these propositions is true?

    1) I am wrong, the Senators general manager is not terrible.
    2) You shouldn’t evaluate general managers based on how the team does.

  65. jtblack says:

    Cassandra,

    Cassandra. are you trying to set up an opinion that goes along these lines …

    Hall was traded (we know you Love Hall). Chirelli is a terrbile GM for making that trade. Now a lot of angry Oilers fans, stated after the trade, that the Oilers were worse off and were not good enough to make the playoffs … Once they made the playoffs, then those same fans said, well they won’t win a cup … Some even have said that unless they win 2 or more cups, trading Taylor was a mistake … So now everything PC does is a mistake.

    “Chump Change” “promptly waste” “don;t value assets yourself” … pretty strong language …

    I would say this. No matter who your GM trades and no matter what anybody thinks of the GM, This is pro sports. PC is not measured on facebook likes, or blog followers or how many supporters he has. He is measured (like all GM’s) on one thing. WINNING.

    So IF the Oilers win a Cup, only a frustrated, vengeful and angry person can turn that into “He’s a terrible GM”

  66. jtblack says:

    jtblack,

    and on your point; IF the Oilers do not Win a Cup, then you can stand on the mountaintop and proclaim “See, I told you so!”

  67. treevojo says:

    Chachi: I don’t think he’s friends with any of them.

    Wrong again Chachi!
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e3/32/61/e332613830012f995e06cb4b31babf59.jpg

  68. jtblack says:

    Also when you start a conversation with an opinion like “The Senators GM is the worst in the league”, what basis is that on? he did make some deadline acquisitions that helped his team in the playoffs. He did make a major move by shipping out Zibanijead for Brassard.

    How do rate GM’s who win? fluke? blind luck? random acts of kindness from the hockey gods?

  69. stush18 says:

    Cassandra,

    It’s never either/or, and you should stop dealing in absolutes.

    I don’t think he is the worst GM in the league. Also playing karlsson for 35 minutes a night and Craig Anderson posting a .922 goes a long way to giving them success.

    They play their system very well. That’s almost more important than who’s on the team.

    That’s why I don’t buy the “win now” mentality. If the oilers don’t capitalize next year we’ve “wasted the prime years of mcdavid”. Bullshit. There is no magic window. You need to get into the playoffs, and if you’re lucky enough to have an elite player like karlsson, or mcdavid, then you can make anything happen.

    You should judge on multiple levels. Ignoring how the team performs is ignoring a large piece of the puzzle.

  70. jtblack says:

    Cassandra,

    ” The Senators have the worst general manager in the league, even worse than Chiarelli and Bergevin. ”

    You Forgot Garth Snow 🙂

  71. Chachi says:

    treevojo: Wrong again Chachi!
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e3/32/61/e332613830012f995e06cb4b31babf59.jpg

    Eberle doesn’t look very happy in that picture at all, but they are physically “close”. Maybe that is what Epimetheus was referring to above.

  72. jtblack says:

    jtblack,

    And Jim Benning 🙂

  73. stush18 says:

    jtblack:
    Also when you start a conversation with an opinion like “The Senators GM is the worst in the league”, what basis is that on?he did make some deadline acquisitions that helped his team in the playoffs. He did make a major move by shipping out Zibanijead for Brassard.

    How do rate GM’s who win?fluke? blind luck? random acts of kindness from the hockey gods?

    For me, a gm has to be able to manage the cap, keep the team in contention, AND have success, and even then, it’s not all I would rate him on. I think maintaining a contender year in year out is much more impressive than winning the cup. Unless you’ve won multiple like Pitt or Chi.

    By the way, the GM of the year award is voted on by their peers. The rest of the league believes he is a top 3 fm based off his moves with the oilers, and I think there is a reason.

    Batman is just sour, again.

  74. jtblack says:

    stush18,

    ” Ignoring how the team performs is ignoring a large piece of the puzzle.” ……… Isn’t this THE piece of the puzzle …. Can anyone with a straight face state that Bill Belichek is a bad football coach? Anyone?

    JUST WIN BABY

  75. jtblack says:

    stush18,

    I agree. Winning year in and year and being in contention, means the team is winning. I would give a big PLUS to any GM that can do this. Winning the Cup is the ultimate statement.

    I think UNTIL a GM wins the cup, he will always be criticized on some level (Washington) …

  76. Professor Q says:

    jtblack:
    stush18,

    ” Ignoring how the team performs is ignoring a large piece of the puzzle.” ……… Isn’t this THE piece of the puzzle …. Can anyone with a straight face state that Bill Belichek is a bad football coach? Anyone?

    JUST WIN BABY

    He chose a fine time to become a “good coach”.

    Wish it were when he was with Cleveland…

  77. stush18 says:

    jtblack:
    stush18,

    ” Ignoring how the team performs is ignoring a large piece of the puzzle.” ……… Isn’t this THE piece of the puzzle …. Can anyone with a straight face state that Bill Belichek is a bad football coach? Anyone?

    JUST WIN BABY

    I mean, it can’t be only about winning. I think that’s a major part, but at the same time there is a lot of different areas you need to consider. Longevity is a big one for me.

    Lombardi tossed out NTC to everyone on his team, and basically ran that team into mediocrity, imo. Unless vegas saves them, they’re always going to be wallowing in the middle, like many teams. Good enough to make playoffs, never bad enough to rebuild.

    Chiarelli has the makings of a winner. If he hands out another NTC to a free agent, or to maroon (for example), with high dollars, then I’ll start being critical.

  78. Ducey says:

    Cassandra:
    jtblack,

    Which of these propositions is true?

    1) I am wrong,

    You had me here. I didn’t need to read the rest.

  79. stush18 says:

    jtblack,

    I think consistently making playoffs is the first step. Winnipeg hasn’t done that. Chevy has done a good job of managing their contracts, and got assets for Ladd.

    He’s waiting on his goalies to develop, and then they should have a contender , imo.

  80. jtblack says:

    stush18,

    “Lombardi tossed out NTC to everyone on his team, and basically ran that team into mediocrity”

    Outside of the Red Wings, name a franchise that has stayed on Top for 15 years + .. They are so rare.

    Lombardi took over a Kings team that was on the path to nowhere in 2006. They have been one of the top teams in the League for 10 years. They won the Cup twice. For you to call his tenure not successful is shameful.

    Also, on the commentor on “I wish Belichek was good in Cleveland” ….

    Is our standard as fans, perfection? is that how we measure each player, coach, GM?

    “That guy might have won 2 cups, but he wasn’t that good”
    “That coach might have won 6 championships, but he was below average at his first coaching job”

    David Poile is at his first Cup final in 35 years? he is considered a good GM.

    IMO pro sports is SUPER tough to win at. Whether that being winning 1 Championship OR competing year after year at a high level. I do not set the bar at perfect or unattainable to judge a GM or player. I look at their work compared to their peers and start from there, not just the Top player or coach of all time.

  81. jtblack says:

    stush18,

    So why would you say a GM has done a good job if his team has done next to nothing in 5 or 6 years? The Oilers just got further in PC’s 2nd year than WPG has in 6 …

  82. --hudson-- says:

    jtblack:
    stush18,

    I agree. Winning year in and year and being in contention, means the team is winning. I would give a big PLUS to any GM that can do this. Winning the Cup is the ultimate statement.

    I think UNTIL a GM wins the cup, he will always be criticized on some level (Washington) …

    I think what you are getting at is the natural lag between the work of a GM and the result on the ice. The draft picks made today, show up on the ice in 5 years as LT puts it. The trades and free agent signings are more immediate but can also take time for the results to be seen.

    A GM with longevity has stuck around long enough for their moves from years ago to be seen today.

    It’s unfortunate a team with a poor NHL record can fire a GM who is actually doing a good job of building for the future. And the opposite argument we see in this forum is Chiarelli is given praise for an NHL record that was likely to improve even if he had made no moves. (How much his moves brought the team above this baseline will be up for debate for a long time, probably until Hall and Larson are retired)

  83. jtblack says:

    Ducey,

    +1

  84. Professor Q says:

    jtblack,

    I guess you have to be like me and in the Dawg Pound to understand our self-lament and self-deprecating ways in the Factory of Sadness. We joke about our pain a lot.

    Bill coached the team in the ’90s right up until before they left to Baltimore.

    And he definitely didn’t show any of his Patriots prowess then.

    It’s a type of humour. But not really about his coaching prowess. More about “well, of COURSE he’d go on to be so successful, and of COURSE Baltimore would win the Superbowl not too long after the move, and of COURSE many Browns players are traded to eventual Super Bowl winners”. It’s like it’s fitting, in a depressing way.

  85. jtblack says:

    –hudson–,

    We all have our opinions. And most have valid points. My opinion is simply that if a GM wins (year after year, or a Cup), I cannot unjustify the GM or give no responsibility to the GM. We can debate if the GM should get 23% credit, 58% credit or most of the credit; but do say a team has won or consistently wins Despite their GM is kind of a stretch, IMO.

  86. jtblack says:

    jtblack,

    But I also hold the GM’s accountable when their team doesn’t do well … I don’t make excuses for poor results and flip it around and say; “They have a great GM but a whole host of other factors contributed to the team losing year after year”

  87. jtblack says:

    Professor Q,

    I know a Browns fan. You poor, poor souls. We had the decade of darkness. You have had the Franchise of Darkness

  88. stush18 says:

    jtblack:
    –hudson–,

    We all have our opinions.And most have valid points.My opinion is simply that if a GM wins (year after year, or a Cup), I cannot unjustify the GM or give no responsibility to the GM.We can debate if the GM should get 23% credit, 58% credit or most of the credit; but do say a team has won or consistently wins Despite their GM is kind of a stretch, IMO.

    Oh a def give credit to gms if they win. That is the goal. But consistency is what’s I want from this oiler team. Gimme 15 years and two wins and I’d be happy, as long as the team could considered a threat to win every year.

    For me, Lombardi is a step below Pitt/Chi. They are very similar teams, and CHI made some tough decisions and moved players out for prospects in order to maintain their status as an elite contender.

    LA traded prospects/picks every year to “add” pieces, and now they’ll be lucky to make playoffs for the next five-ten years with zero help coming from the minors. That’s the difference, and what I don’t want chiarelli to do. You need to add cheap help, not send it away.

    Also, what he did to mike Richards was deploarable imo. I think everyone had to know he needed help.

  89. stush18 says:

    –hudson–: I think what you are getting at is the natural lag between the work of a GM and the result on the ice.The draft picks made today, show up on the ice in 5 years as LT puts it.The trades and free agent signings are more immediate but can also take time for the results to be seen.

    A GM with longevity has stuck around long enough for their moves from years ago to be seen today.

    It’s unfortunate a team with a poor NHL record can fire a GM who is actually doing a good job of building for the future.And the opposite argument we see in this forum is Chiarelli is given praise for an NHL record that was likely to improve even if he had made no moves. (How much his moves brought the team above this baseline will be up for debate for a long time, probably until Hall and Larson are retired)

    Agreed. Owners need to be patient, which is difficult to do.

    I think Francis in Carolina is an excellent description of this. They are doing a tremendous job of drafting right now, building from the back end, and the results are going to come here soon.

    But if they don’t come by next year, is Francis chopped? I think it’s inevitable that the cains start winning. Question is when. Same goes for Winnipeg imo.

    It’s tough to label. Do you look at a GMs tenure with the team? Only the past two years? Where they’re trending? How they did this year? I think chiarellis nod is given to him over the work he’s done over the past two years. I don’t think it’s based off this year alone, honestly.

    I think I could go through the league, and point to every team and give them thumbs up, thumbs down, a meh, and a wait and see.

    Right now I give chiarelli a thumbs up. And anyone into advanced stats would probably disagree with me, but I think we’ll likely disagree about a number of things.

  90. GCW_69 says:

    Ducey:
    So we know:

    1) The Oilers do not need to trade Eberle at all this season in order to get under the cap
    2) The Oilers have no huge problems with their expansion list
    3) Eberle is a much better player than Strome (box cars 69 13 17 30 vs 82 20 31 51)
    4) Halak was so great last year that he spent 1/2 the season in the AHL at age 31
    5) The Islanders do have problems with their expansion list

    From this we conclude that it would be a good idea to trade Eberle for Halak and Strome?

    The Oilers are in a position of strength here. Status quo suits Chia just fine. It is Snow that needs to knuckle under.

    I do not like Strome at all. I think there is a decent chance that Kassian and Slepyshev could out boxcar him next season if they were given the same minutes. On top of that, he plays with all the gritensity of Sam Gagner. Perhaps that is impacting my assessment.

    But I would be very unhappy with that deal.

    Nelson doesn’t have the offensive upside of Strome, but he is more consistent and a better 2-way player. If I am squeezing Snow I am asking for Hamonic and Nelson for Eberle plus a player not needing protection (Drake, Sleppy, Jones, Paigin). Nelson has played the wing with Tavares at times in NY, so even though he is a left shot, its possible he could play wing with Leon or McDavid.

    That said, its tough for Edmonton to do a deal where a forward is coming back. If they get a Hamonic, then they need to go 4-4-1, in which case ether Maroon or the forward coming back (Strome/Nelson) gets picked by Vegas.

    I suppose a bold move would be to do the deal, go 7-3-1 and ask Sekera to waive. Would Vegas take a $6M player who’s out for 6-9 months? Probably not. If Sekera was willing, that would be a bold strategy that could pay big dividends.

  91. Bag of Pucks says:

    RexLibris,

    +1

  92. Bag of Pucks says:

    magneto:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Flyers will be getting a shiny new centre at the draft this year…..
    Would they rather trade Schenn (494 FOs 47%5.125mx3) or Couturier (1066 FOs 55.1%4.33mx5)

    Eberle for Schenn would probably be easier to swing

    I’d be down for Schenn as well. He’s just starting to peak now,

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