RE 17-18 PETER CHIARELLI: DANNY SAYS

In many ways, the Edmonton Oilers were a family business when Peter Chiarelli walked through the doors with the keys to the plant. Born in another era, the club never did upgrade from the Glen Sather style and by 2015 (I believe) it was either hire an experienced general manager or grab another Oiler (Wayne Gretzky). There is no doubt things have changed since Chiarelli’s arrival and things will continue to change as long as he is in the general manager’s chair. Question: Is winning a Stanley enough? (Danny Says)

  • 2015-16: 31-43-8, 70 pts (199-242) (GD: -43)
  • 2016-17: 47-26-9, 103 pts (243-207) (GD: +36)
  1. Why this song? That comes at the end.
  2. I thought you did the Chiarlli RE already? No, I wrote about his trades and free agent movements, freeing us up for a frank conversation about his track record in Edmonton.
  3. Well his trades have been terrible. Not so. PC has acquired men like Cam Talbot, Patrick Maroon, Zack Kassian and others in the three summers since arrival.
  4. You know the trades I’m talking about. Yes I do, and have been clear in my opinion on those deals. However, at some point it’s fair to suggest the Reinhart trade, bad as it was, was paid for by the Matt Benning signing. Chiarelli needed a young plug-and-play, gambled it was Reinhart, and lost. I think the Benning signing, another aggressive move, addressed the situation.
  5. If he hadn’t traded for Reinhart, the shelves would be far better stocked! You’re the guy always talking about building through the system! You bet, that trade set this organization back and Chiarelli has to make up for it in other ways. My point is we still talk about these (admittedly poor) trades as if they end the conversation but that’s not true. Matt Benning filled the void Reinhart was supposed to, if we’re going to be reasonable, then we have to acknowledge that fact.
  6. He’s making fewer trades now. Yes of course, there’s less to be done and frankly free agency has helped him too.
  7. What does he have left to do? I still think he’ll want to add a difference maker on defense, a Drew Doughty. I don’t know if that player will come to him but there will be a great deal of effort in the next few years.
  8. He should have traded for Subban! I thought so too, said so at the time. The trade (as rumored) was Leon Draisasitl, one of Oscar Klefbom or Darnell Nurse, and then a flip of first-round picks (No. 4 for No. 9) in the 2016 draft. Ironically, I think the Habs ended up with Edmonton’s target at No. 9 (Sergachev). Looking back, I don’t think you make that trade because the cap would have been wrecked.
  9. So you’re fine with the progress? I think Chiarelli has made moves good and bad but there has been progress in important areas. The goaltending and defense have been improved markedly and he did it without touching that fantastic center depth chart.
  10. He joined a team that had just won the McDavid lottery. That’s his progress right there! That’s a massive part of Edmonton’s improvement, but Cam Talbot helped in a big way and that’s a Chiarelli trade. He improved the defense, especially RH side and we are now reaching a point where the organization has real areas of strength (aside from center).
  11. He shouldn’t get credit for McDavid! I understand that, but at some point those arguments are no longer relevant. Did we spend time in 1984 talking about how lucky Glen Sather was to have Gretzky? Probably, but it wasn’t central to the story. Peter Chiarelli is making moves based on having McDavid on his roster, what else would you have him do?
  12. Why did he sign Russell? I imagine because he values him and Todd McLellan mentioned that having Russell on his team was beneficial. A general manager doesn’t sign a long-term deal with any player without a ringing endorsement from the coaching staff.
  13. Any other pressures on Chiarelli? I think you have to look at the next pressure point as Cam Talbot’s contract. He is free agent 2019 and the Oilers may not be able to afford him, so finding a replacement is going to be a priority.
  14. Is his team drafting well? I think so, there are lots of good arrows from 2015, and some of the 2016’s (Puljujarvi, Wells, Rasanen) are showing well enough to project as possible to probable NHL solutions. Long way to go and very important to let these things play out. Tyler Benson’s health is a major issue on the development side, that’s an area of weakness and his success would be a big help.
  15. Can this team win the Stanley Cup this year? Yes, but a lot of things will need to go right. Both sets of wingers are going to need veterans to perform at career norms or better and youngsters who blossom right on time. That’s a lot to ask.
  16. If there’s one move Chiarelli could make between now and opening night, what would it be? I suspect he remains on the lookout for a complete defenseman, and or an offensive defenseman. So, either a Drew Doughty or a Torey Krug. I think he’d make room for that kind of player any time during the year.
  17. Do you like him as a general manager? I liked his results in Boston and if he wins a Stanley Cup in Edmonton then the cost of getting there won’t be an issue for me.
  18. What are his biggest accomplishments as Oilers general manager? He got the McDavid deal done long term at $12.5 million; he has a value first pairing; he has made several astute trades (Talbot, Maroon, Kassian, others) and impressive free-agent signings (Sekera, Benning, Letestu, Jokinen). I also think the draft table is being smartly run, including some home run shots in search of skill forwards. If Kirill Maksimov works out, that’s a helluva get (as an example).
  19. What are the biggest holes on the roster or in the organization?  I’ve been impressed with Chiarelli in his attempts to turn over the areas he is culling via trade. Adding wingers Jesse Puljuajrvi and Kailer Yamamoto have really helped RW future, he’ll need Benson to work out and then add others to LW future.
  20. Why this song? The original is from one of my favorite bands and the lyric is about a central figure within that band who ended up causing a fracture that lasted one forever. In this way, Danny Says works for Chiarelli, whose arrival coincided with the Connor McDavid era and the most controversial trade of the modern Oilers.

 

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

76 Responses to "RE 17-18 PETER CHIARELLI: DANNY SAYS"

  1. godot10 says:

    Only one Cup with a generational player is failure for both the GM and the coach. Two Cups is the threshold.

    Crosby’s current teams (last two seasons) are worse on paper than they were under Shero and Bylsma. Rutherford and Sullivan are maximizing a less balanced and less deep roster by being innovative with their systems and style of play.

  2. flyfish1168 says:

    I believe in PC. I truly feel PC has put Connor in a position to succeed. With the correct coach, surrounding Connor with tougher skilled players, better d-men, and increased overall balance. Winning formula. Mark of a good GM. Now we just need a little ladyluck. Then we can say a great GM.

  3. dustrock says:

    2 Cups is the goal, but I think until last couple of years, the Pens weren’t looking so hot.

    Caps and Sharks have been close many times with some excellent teams.

    It’s not easy even for the elite teams.

  4. flyfish1168 says:

    dustrock:
    2 Cups is the goal, but I think until last couple of years, the Pens weren’t looking so hot.

    Caps and Sharks have been close many times with some excellent teams.

    It’s not easy even for the elite teams.

    I agree with you. You need puck luck, injury luck and some luck from the refs. Maybe even from NHL head office.

  5. Lowetide says:

    I think it’s important to point out that winning one Stanley is far more difficult now than it was during the 1980s. There are more teams and there are fewer stupid general managers, and there are NO general managers with the kind of clout Lou Nanne would have had back then.

  6. treevojo says:

    godot10:
    Only one Cup with a generational player is failure for both the GM and the coach.Two Cups is the threshold.

    Crosby’s current teams (last two seasons) are worse on paper than they were under Shero and Bylsma.Rutherford and Sullivan are maximizing a less balanced and less deep roster by being innovative with their systems and style of play.

    Failure for both the GM and the coach but not the player or players?

    Some would consider Ovi a generational player.

    Does he not assume any blame for not winning a cup or is it all on the GM and coach?

  7. treevojo says:

    godot10,

    Some would have considered Eric Lindros a generational player.

    Does his lack of a cup land solely on the GMs and coaches or does he share some of the responsibility?

  8. Brantford Boy says:

    Impressive free-agent signings (Sekera, Benning, Letestu, Jokinen)…. and Lucic?

    I think just last year ‘we’ were saying he’s probably the biggest free-agent we have ever landed… I’ll let the masses describe ‘biggest’…

    I like what has Chiarelli has done, including all the unmentionables… sadly a purge was necessary (almost by salary cap math alone). A +79 GD is on the players… players the GM plugged in playing in the system of the coach…

  9. russ99 says:

    Considering where we were at before he was hired (I count those months with MacTavish behind the bench as the true nadir) and where we are now, he’s done a fantastic job. Give props to Bob Nicholson and McLellan too, in their efforts for culture change in the front office and on the ice too.

    No GM bats 1.000, there’s always some good and some bad, and overall we’re way ahead.

    Let’s win a Cup first before worrying how many would be considered a success.

  10. OriginalPouzar says:

    Uh oh – are here we go.

    I haven’t read the blog or the initial comments yet but we all know where this one is going to go.

    How much credit can/should Chiarelli be given for the gigantic turn north this past season.

    1) the enormous turn north can’t be ignored – it happened in points, it happened in goal differential, it happened in basically all ES strength metrics

    2) yes, some of the important pieces were already in place (Connor McDavidl, and Leon Draisaitl)

    3) on the other hand, many of the other primary pieces (Talbot, Larsson) were acquired along with secondary (Maroon, Russell, Benning, Lucic, Letestu) and tertiary pieces (Caggulia)

    4) fact is a huge portion of the team was over-hauled and the team took a giant step north – could the giant step north have happened without the moves? Could the team be in better shape now or in the future with some of the moves not being made?

    All in all, I think our GM has done a great job.

    One important transaction PC made that goes largely unheralded is signing Klefbom to his incredible contract.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Brantford Boy:
    Impressive free-agent signings (Sekera, Benning, Letestu, Jokinen)…. and Lucic?

    I think just last year ‘we’ were saying he’s probably the biggest free-agent we have ever landed… I’ll let the masses describe ‘biggest’…

    I like what has Chiarelli has done, including all the unmentionables… sadly a purge was necessary (almost by salary cap math alone).A +79 GD is on the players… players the GM plugged in playing in the system of the coach…

    I left out Lucic (and other names) because I really wanted to talk overview. One of the things we should see with Lucic this winter is improved 5×5/60 scoring. That was my main issue with his play, and I do think his signing has some track to go before we can make a call on it. That said, the front half was supposed to be the good half, so this coming year is going to be important.

  12. jtblack says:

    All in all, I think our GM has done a great job.” – I fall in this camp

    “I think it’s important to point out that winning one Stanley is far more difficult now than it was during the 1980s” – Agreed. Tavares, Stamkos, Ovechkin have had excellent individual seasons with 0 Cups among them. I feel anyone starting from the “we need 2 Cups or 3 Cups to be successful” is just setting the bar so High so that they can pound their chest just when 2 or 3 Cups are not won and claim how right they were.

    Since 1992 (25 yrs) the Oilers have been past the 2nd Round once. Given the enormous challenge to get to a final four or win a Pennant; 1 Cup will be Lovely. If it arrives, then if course I will hope for more.

    Love the team depth and Firepower. Would like to see a 5 tool D man also

  13. Woogie63 says:

    I think the PC story is more about his view on what it takes to win.

    Our old core;

    Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yak, Shultz, NN, Fayne (Perry, Ference) save RNH were seen very differentl by PC.

    Replacing the entire core so the team plays a new style is a hard thing to do the cap era.

  14. leadfarmer says:

    I blame the Bruins. By not trading Hamilton to us they messed a lot of things up. No one would care about Barzal if our d pairings were
    Klef Larsson
    Sekera Hamilton
    Nurse Benning

    Then no one would complain about the Russell contract because we wouldn’t need him. We wouldn’t have done the Reinhart deal. That one non trade led to a cascade of problems

  15. jtblack says:

    Love the Analogy of the “Family Business”. PC was the outsider, forced with making tough decisions.

    Overall I give PC 8 out of 10.

    Are the playoffs an automatic this year? I dont think so.

    Can we win the Cup? Yes.

    Above all I hope the team doesnt regress this year. Sekera injury starts us in a hole. 1 or 2 injuries to Top players early could be tough to overcome. Dallas, Calgary, AZ will be much tougher to get points from this year.

  16. Brantford Boy says:

    Lowetide: I left out Lucic (and other names) because I really wanted to talk overview. One of the things we should see with Lucic this winter is improved 5×5/60 scoring. That was my main issue with his play, and I do think his signing has some track to go before we can make a call on it. That said,the front half was supposed to be the good half, so this coming year is going to be important.

    I actually really like Lucic… my previous comment may have appeared otherwise… one thing I wish Lucic had not done was talk about ‘swagger’… I heard that word more in the last year than all my life… the MSM got a hold of it and ran it into the ground… I think Lucic will return to form this season though, with said swagger 🙂

  17. flyfish1168 says:

    leadfarmer:
    I blame the Bruins.By not trading Hamilton to us they messed a lot of things up.No one would care about Barzal if our d pairings were
    Klef Larsson
    Sekera Hamilton
    Nurse Benning

    Then no one would complain about the Russell contract because we wouldn’t need him.We wouldn’t have done the Reinhart deal

    Life would have been different. But I wonder if PC would have done the Hall for Larson trade if he had gotten Dougie.

  18. VOR says:

    Hockey is a team sport.

    It is entirely possible to be a great player and never get close to a Stanley Cup. Hockey is filled with stories of guys like Ray Borque, who in his 21st season with Boston finally moved to another team to get a chance at Cup. It worked out for him, but there are lots of players for whom it didn’t, Borje Salming, Marcel Dionne, and on and on.

    My personal favorite is the story of the guy who chose not to chase a Stanley Cup. Andy was a superstar, a great scorer, absolutely money on the power play. He looked set to be one of those guys who goes his whole career with one team, but 11 years to his career he got dealt in one of the more stunning moves in NHL history.

    Andy had some good years over the next nine years but he became one of those guys who was seen as a useful spare part, playing on five teams in 9 years as his career slowly slid away. The one thing he could still do was score goals and given what a rare skill that is, when at the end of the 9 years of wandering Andy became a free agent a lot of NHL teams came calling. Everyone assumed he’d grab for the brass ring and sign with a Cup contender.

    But one team made a completely different pitch. They said, we’re terrible. We desperately need team leadership. Come be our veteran team leader.

    Andy knew there was no chance he would ever win a Cup when he signed. That his career would end with a whimper not a bang. And he went for it anyway. He wanted to be part of growing something not to ride on his teammates coattails.

    His first year with the new team didn’t go well. They were a gong show with a dressing room filled with drama and conflict. Yet incredibly Andy kept refusing trades. There were at least four offers, but he refused them all. Management felt he had an attitude.

    Then in the off-season after that first season the head coach did something radical. He stripped his young superstar of his captaincy and gave it to Andy. It turned out to be a brilliant move.

    The next season Dave (Andy) Andreychuk lead the Tampa Bay Lightning to the playoffs. The year after that he lead them to the Stanley Cup.

    Andreychuk waited 22 season (1597 regular season games) to win a Stanley Cup. But nobody can say he didn’t earn it.

  19. Nuclear leak says:

    Hard to say he lost the trade anymore when he has a far below market value 1st pairing for years to come.

    For Lucic to improve his 5×5 he needs 29 up the middle, Connor and Nuge don’t play a big man cycle game.

    Maroon/McD/strome
    Lucic/Drai/Slepy
    Joki/Nuge/Pulj
    Jujar/Letestu/Kass

    Chia has built a big, fast, opposing forward group. Every line has multiple fears, Nuge/Joki still probably get 40% toi vs elites.

    Klef/Lars
    Russ/Benning
    Nurse/Gryba

    There’s a puck mover coming with 1yr of term left, Sekera is basically a write off this upcoming season. He may be 80% of what he was by playoffs. The physical aspects aside, he’s going to need 60 days of full press action to get the lingering injury fear out of his mental skates.

    Who’s the next Chara

  20. flyfish1168 says:

    Brantford Boy: I actually really like Lucic… my previous comment may have appeared otherwise… one thing I wish Lucic had not done was talk about ‘swagger’… I heard that word more in the last year than all my life… the MSM got a hold of it and ran it into the ground… I think Lucic will return to form this season though, with said swagger

    I also like the Lucic signing. Strome made a comment about having a tough player and how it is undervalued. How losing Matt Martin made a difference against tough teams for the islanders

  21. leadfarmer says:

    flyfish1168: Life would have been different. But I wonder if PC would have done the Hall for Larson trade if he had gotten Dougie.

    Yes. Believe so. When McDavid went down without a wimper you could tell big changes were on the way. That day put a big bullseye on Lucic. Hall was a goner money wise. 6 mil is a boatload of money for a winger (around 5th to 7th in league depending on side) and the right side was crazy thin and Eberle was supposed to do wonders with McDavid

  22. leadfarmer says:

    I like the Lucic signing because despite the length I think there is definitely going to be a lockout in 3 years and he will be bought out then with a compliance buyout. The signing stopped the never ending quest for the Lucic type player which caused us to take multiple high picks and start them on fire.

  23. Richard S.S. says:

    I started watching the Oilers in the WHA. That was terrible hockey, but it was a lot of fun. I needed a regular 58 hour day to do everything I wanted to do. As a result, I only watched a few games a month. That’s when I found out I’m an Oilers fan and not really a hockey fan. I stopped watching when Gretzky was sold.

    When the Internet was invented and made accessible to the masses I started paying some attention to the Oilers, more after 2009. The Offseason was always of more interest. My first return to watching Oiler games occurred in 2014.

    I’d watch an Oiler receive a pass and skate into the opponents end, no shot, no pass. He’d skate around a player or two, no shot, no pass. He’d skate a second or two more and lose the puck. While the play is moving into the Oiler’s end, he’s skating off for a line change. Time after time after time I watched this happen. That was my first introduction to Taylor Hall. As good as he was, that’s why he was traded.

    Magic happened after the 2014/15 season. The Hockey Universe changed in an instant. Then real NHL executive talent got the really important jobs and the New Oilers were born. It’s time to join the now.

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    Brantford Boy: I actually really like Lucic… my previous comment may have appeared otherwise… one thing I wish Lucic had not done was talk about ‘swagger’… I heard that word more in the last year than all my life… the MSM got a hold of it and ran it into the ground… I think Lucic will return to form this season though, with said swagger

    I know what you are saying and I get it – it became a buzz-word/phrase like “dusting it off” or “driving a line”.

    With that said, it kind of fits and the Lucic was part of a change in the perception of the team and how it became tough to play against after years of being easy to play against.

  25. frjohnk says:

    leadfarmer: Yes.Believe so.When McDavid went down without a wimper you could tell big changes were on the way.That day put a big bullseye on Lucic.Hall was a goner money wise.6 mil is a boatload of money for a winger (around 5th to 7th in league depending on side) and the right side was crazy thin and Eberle was supposed to do wonders with McDavid

    .
    In the alternate universe with Hamilton in it, does Chia use his greatest tradeable asset for a RHD, even though he has already has a top pairing RHD?

    With Hamilton in the fold, I dont think Chia is as desperate to fix the D. Doesnt mean that Hall does not eventually get traded, but I dont see it being for Larsson at that time.

  26. leadfarmer says:

    frjohnk: .
    In the alternate universe with Hamilton in it, does Chia use his greatest tradeable asset for a RHD, even though he has already has a top pairing RHD?

    With Hamilton in the fold, I dont think Chia is as desperate to fix the D.Doesnt mean that Hall does not eventually get traded, but I dont see it being for Larsson at that time.

    Completely disagree. At the time there were 12 wingers in the league making 6 mil or more and we had 3. That is not a recipe for success. It’s crazy to spend that much money on the least important position in the game.
    Our RHD chart would have been
    Hamilton
    Blank
    Rookie Benning

    Hamilton or not it’s easy to forget the shape of our RHD corps last season. Russell was brought in as a stopgap on a one year contract to stabilize that right side. They liked what they saw and kept him around. No doubt in my mind that Chia has liked Larsson and with his contract would have been over the moon to build that d corp.

  27. Bag of Pucks says:

    In a recent Journal story, Chiarelli still defends the Reinhart trade. Says Griffin is still tracking to become the player they thought he’d be, but he does acknowledge they anticipated that development happening more quickly. Says they had no way to anticipate losing him to expansion at the time he was acquired.

  28. godot10 says:

    Lowetide:
    I think it’s important to point out that winning one Stanley is far more difficult now than it was during the 1980s. There are more teams and there are fewer stupid general managers, and there are NO general managers with the kind of clout Lou Nanne would have had back then.

    Yet the Kings, the Blackhawks, and the Penguins, three teams have done it in less than the last decade.

  29. frjohnk says:

    leadfarmer: Completely disagree.At the time there were 12 wingers in the league making 6 mil or more and we had 3.That is not a recipe for success.It’s crazy to spend that much money on the least important position in the game.
    Our RHD chart would have been
    Hamilton
    Blank
    Rookie Benning

    Hamilton or not it’s easy to forget the shape of our RHD corps last season.Russell was brought in as a stopgap on a one year contract to stabilize that right side.They liked what they saw and kept him around.No doubt in my mind that Chia has liked Larsson and with his contract would have been over the moon to build that d corp.

    With Hamilton in the fold, Chia is not as desparate to trade Hall for Larsson and fix the right side. In the Hamilton universe, Chia is probably using lesser assets and bringing in a guy like Gudbranson to add to the right side.

  30. godot10 says:

    treevojo:
    godot10,

    Some would have considered Eric Lindros a generational player.

    Does his lack of a cup land solely on the GMs and coaches or does he share some of the responsibility?

    The Flyers were a functionaing “dysfunctional” organization, and management hated their own player. And then Lindros had injlury issues. I don’t blame Lindros for management accusing him of being a pussy for not playing through concussions.

  31. Lowetide says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    In a recent Journal story, Chiarelli still defends the Reinhart trade. Says Griffin is still tracking to become the player they thought he’d be, but he does acknowledge they anticipated that development happening more quickly. Says they had no way to anticipate losing him to expansion at the time he was acquired.

    Ha! I mentioned awhile back it wouldn’t surprised if they re-acquired him. Haha. People.

  32. Brantford Boy says:

    OriginalPouzar: I know what you are saying and I get it – it became a buzz-word/phrase like “dusting it off” or “driving a line”.

    With that said, it kind of fits and the Lucic was part of a change in the perception of the team and how it became tough to play against after years of being easy to play against.

    Lucic ‘is’ the very definition of swagger, and fits him perfectly, he essentially coined it at the media scrum announcing his signing… sadly like we both mentioned it has become a buzz word… I hope they keep Nurse around, he is Swagger 2.0… <– see its catchy… but overused…

  33. dustrock says:

    I guess to look at how much Chiarelli has accomplished, try to figure how much of the roster was actually on the Oilers before he came.

    RNH. Klefbom. Is that it? That is a massive amount of turnover for 2-3 years.

    One hopes with some continuity in coaching and roster that the team will be more stable.

  34. treevojo says:

    godot10: The Flyers were a functionaing “dysfunctional” organization, and management hate their own player.And then Lindros had injlury issues.I don’t blame Lindros for management accusing him of being a pussy for not playing through concussions.

    So players have zero influence in their own team’s success.

    Good to know.

  35. jtblack says:

    godot10,

    Yes; 3 teams with Multiple Cups since 2000. Are those great statistical odds in a 30 ((31) team League? No. It can be done, but probably less than 10% chance

  36. Brantford Boy says:

    frjohnk: .
    In the alternate universe with Hamilton in it, does Chia use his greatest tradeable asset for a RHD, even though he has already has a top pairing RHD?

    With Hamilton in the fold, I dont think Chia is as desperate to fix the D.Doesnt mean that Hall does not eventually get traded, but I dont see it being for Larsson at that time.

    These are excellent questions (in an alternate universe)… and I say no he doesn’t make the trade… but boy I way prefer Larsson over Hamilton… I like him over Trouba, Dumba and many more names that were floated around… I really like how our top pair can grow over time… if this trade (Hamilton) did happen, I suspect #4 would have been here for an additional season… but then sadly we can kiss goodbye all the high pedigree players drafted last year, this year, and next to our prospect pool…

  37. flyfish1168 says:

    frjohnk: With Hamilton in the fold, Chia is not as desparate to trade Hall for Larsson and fix the right side.In the Hamilton universe, Chia is probably using lesser assets and bringing in a guy like Gudbranson to add to the right side.

    I never understood why the Bruins never circled back to us when the best offer was what the phlegms gave. Well I do know, But that is not a good way to run your team. Our picks were superior. Idiots.

  38. frjohnk says:

    flyfish1168: I never understood why the Bruins never circled back to us when the best offer was what the phlegms gave. Well I do know, But that is not a good way to run your team. Our picks were superior. Idiots.

    They wanted Nurse in the deal or there was no deal.

  39. Pink Socks says:

    godot10: The Flyers were a functionaing “dysfunctional” organization, and management hated their own player.And then Lindros had injlury issues.I don’t blame Lindros for management accusing him of being a pussy for not playing through concussions.

    And Ovechkin?

  40. PerryK says:

    I don’t care if this is an unmentionable!

    Taylor Hall!

    Hall and Demers >> Lucic and Larsson. No question.

  41. Bag of Pucks says:

    Lowetide: Ha! I mentioned awhile back it wouldn’t surprised if they re-acquired him. Haha. People.

    Really does speak to the difficulty of making the jump to the big dance. I watched Reinhart a ton in junior and he was extremely dominant. One on one, he angled the forward to the boards and either forced a poor pass or shot, or bodied the puck off them – every bloody time.

    I thought he was going to be an absolute stud as a pro, but everyone has that extra gear in the NHL. I think Griffin has struggled with the fact that he simply isn’t positionally dominant anymore. He has to evolve into a player more focused on immediate gap control rather than letting the forward come to him.

  42. frjohnk says:

    Bag of Pucks: Really does speak to the difficulty of making the jump to the big dance

    Totally agree.

    Bag of Pucks: I watched Reinhart a ton and junior and he was extremely dominant. One on one, he angled the forward to the boards and either forced a poor pass or shot, or bodied the puck off them – every bloody time.
    I thought he was going to be an absolute stud as a pro, but everyone has that extra gear in the NHL. I think Griffin has struggled with the fact that he simply isn’t positionally dominant anymore. He has to evolve into a player more focused on immediate gap control rather than letting the forward come to him.

    I didn’t watch Reinhart as much as you, but caught a few of his games in the WHL and of course watched in the WJC’s. He was dominate at those levels. I liked the trade when it happened. I thought Chia pulled the trigger on a player that was going to help us. Doh!

  43. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    I’m pretty sure you picked The Foo Fighters because of all of the cover tunes.

  44. Ryan says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    In a recent Journal story, Chiarelli still defends the Reinhart trade. Says Griffin is still tracking to become the player they thought he’d be, but he does acknowledge they anticipated that development happening more quickly. Says they had no way to anticipate losing him to expansion at the time he was acquired.

    I think that there’s a long tradition in hockey of players, coaches, and especially managers with some exceptions (Mact) reverting to answers that are politically expedient rather than saying what they really think.

    What’s Chiarelli going to say?

    1. We’ll, I didn’t like the trade at its inception in terms of value going out, just look at my expression on the draft floor when the trade was announced. I was new on the job and the OBC leveraged their relationships with Daryl to make it happen.

    2. In hindsight irrespective of the further negative impact incurred by the expansion draft, it was a very poor trade. We paid a very high price in assets for a player that didn’t work contributing much at all to pour roster. I’d sure like to have selected Brandon Carlo who was high on our list instead.

    If the first is true in some form, then he would throw ownership under he bus while diminishing his own autonomy as GM.

    If he simply acknowledged the trade as very poor, he throws Reinhart under the bus and you have a news story there.

  45. flyfish1168 says:

    frjohnk: They wanted Nurse in the deal or there was no deal.

    I did hear that. But at the end they could have still compared our draft picks against the phlegms and still see our selections would have been superior.

  46. leadfarmer says:

    frjohnk: With Hamilton in the fold, Chia is not as desparate to trade Hall for Larsson and fix the right side.In the Hamilton universe, Chia is probably using lesser assets and bringing in a guy like Gudbranson to add to the right side.

    Hamilton and Larsson are opposites. Chia has no problems losing a trade if it accomplishes his goal. Hall was a goner as soon as Lucic was willing to come here.

  47. leadfarmer says:

    PerryK:
    I don’t care if this is an unmentionable!

    Taylor Hall!

    Hall and Demers >> Lucic and Larsson.No question.

    Florida actively trying to dump Demers and being unsuccessful would completely disagree with you. We dodged a bullet. Go talk to some Panthers fans

  48. flyfish1168 says:

    PerryK:
    I don’t care if this is an unmentionable!

    Taylor Hall!

    Hall and Demers >> Lucic and Larsson.No question.

    I have to disagree with you. Team toughness and Larsson superior defensive d-man = more balance and win for Lucic & Larsson. JMHO

  49. godot10 says:

    Pink Socks: And Ovechkin?

    Well, Boudreau, Trotz, and McLellan all seem to belong to the NHL’s #SchottenheimerClub. Boudreau’s teams have failed at critical moments in multiple cities now. Trotz’s teams have been horrid in the playoffs in both Nashville and Washington.

    I tend to blame the coaches. Crosby has carried two mediocre teams to the Cup back-to-back once he didn’t have Bylsma around.

  50. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I’m pretty sure you picked The Foo Fighters because of all of the cover tunes.

    The first time I heard the Foo version of this song I pulled off the road. It is a legendary song among Ramones fans (I am one) and the handling by Foo was incredible. And you’re at least partly right. 🙂

  51. stush18 says:

    PerryK:
    I don’t care if this is an unmentionable!

    Taylor Hall!

    Hall and Demers >> Lucic and Larsson.No question.

    This is prolly gonna start another shitstorm,

    But hall is slightly better than lucic.

    Larsson is quite a bit better than Demers.

    I think it’s a wash.

  52. frjohnk says:

    stush18: This is prolly gonna start another shitstorm,

    But hall is slightly better than lucic.

    Larsson is quite a bit better than Demers.

    I think it’s a wash.

    Contract wise,Hall and Larsson are value contracts.

    Demers and Lucic are not.

  53. jtblack says:

    9 Cups handed out since ’09.

    4 Teams have split those 9 Cups.

    #Difficult.
    #1WouldBeGreat

  54. frjohnk says:

    I hope we win 5 more again.

    But with the parity of todays NHL, there is the possibility that Connor McDavid as an Oiler never wins the Cup. Oilers could be elite and balanced for a decade and not win the cup.

    Do we fault Chia or whoever the GM is in this circumstance?

    I wouldn’t.

    Its tough to win.

  55. LMHF#1 says:

    What we’ve had to go through watching this team become a joke for a decade cannot be remedied by 1 or 2 Cups.

    That’s not on Chiarelli of course.

  56. frjohnk says:

    frjohnk: Its tough to win.

    I should expand on this.

    In this past year, we could have lost in the first round (if Thornton and Couture were healthy) just as easily as advancing to the 3rd round (if we had good reffing/breaks/no injury to Sek)

    The line between winning and losing is razor thin.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    LMHF#1:
    What we’ve had to go through watching this team become a joke for a decade cannot be remedied by 1 or 2 Cups.

    That’s not on Chiarelli of course.

    Prior to their decades of dominance, the RedWings were the joke of the NHL for just as long as the Oilers. Similar with the Blackhawks, the Penguins, etc.

  58. LMHF#1 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Prior to their decades of dominance, the RedWings were the joke of the NHL for just as long as the Oilers. Similar with the Blackhawks, the Penguins, etc.

    Not as bad, for as long or the subject of so much mockery.

    Not to mention the $$$s spent to retain tickets to watch THAT.

    If ONE reporter says “it was all worth it” I will lose my shit. It absolutely was not, and never, ever had to be as it was.

  59. Side says:

    godot10: Well, Boudreau, Trotz, and McLellan all seem to belong to the NHL’s #SchottenheimerClub.Boudreau’s teams have failed at critical moments in multiple cities now.Trotz’s teams have been horrid in the playoffs in both Nashville and Washington.

    I tend to blame the coaches.Crosby has carried two mediocre teams to the Cup back-to-back once he didn’t have Bylsma around.

    So in one breath, you say it’s the coaches and GM that win the team cups and players aren’t as important.

    In the next breath, it’s “Crosby is carrying mediocre teams on his back to win cups once he didn’t have Bylsma around”.

    Which is it? Is Mike Sullivan carrying the team on his back or Crosby?

  60. Side says:

    LMHF#1:
    What we’ve had to go through watching this team become a joke for a decade cannot be remedied by 1 or 2 Cups.

    It really can.

    Sports is a “what have you done for me lately” kinda beast.

    If the Oilers win 2 cups, no one will care about the decade of incompetence. And really, why would anyone care? It’s different management and different players.

  61. OriginalPouzar says:

    LMHF#1: Not as bad, for as long or the subject of so much mockery.

    Not to mention the $$$s spent to retain tickets to watch THAT.

    If ONE reporter says “it was all worth it” I will lose my shit. It absolutely was not, and never, ever had to be as it was.

    The RedWings missed the playoffs 12 out of 13 years and 15 out of 17 years in an era of less teams in the league (easier to make the playoffs).

    They were a bottom feeding organization for the better part of two decades.

  62. Evilas says:

    LMHF#1,

    I’ve been closely following the NHL since 1979-80, before that season I had some awareness of what were good and what were bad teams. The Red Wings, Capitals and Maple Leafs were not good teams for many of those early years of my awareness.

    The decade of darkness was really tough to take as a passionate Oilers fan, BUT they’ve always been my team good or bad (I’ve lived in Calgary and area on and off since 1990, but even though I don’t hate the Flames -btw I hate hate, it makes you blind and ignorant which is a terrible way to be – I could never see myself being a fan of that team; I’ve met several Flames fans who used to be Oiler fans), but as bad as it’s been, there has always ALWAYS been hope. In that sense, we have had it so much better than so many other fan bases, for example, how many finals have the Washington Capitals fans been able to experience since they’ve been in existence?

    I would be absolutely ecstatic if we win only one cup during Connor’s time in E-Town.

    I have never understood why so many are fans of the Leafs, that franchise has been bad for so many seasons since 1970. It doesn’t deserve to have the fan base that it does have, IMO.

    As Oilers fans we have been blessed, more so than the vast majority of franchises. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but some folks really need to take a step back, take a deep breath and enjoy what we have going on these days. Life isn’t perfect, but it is a perfect time to be a fan of the Oilers. Enjoy the ride for the next 20+ years, it’s going to be fun!

  63. Georges says:

    godot10: Well, Boudreau, Trotz, and McLellan all seem to belong to the NHL’s #SchottenheimerClub.Boudreau’s teams have failed at critical moments in multiple cities now.Trotz’s teams have been horrid in the playoffs in both Nashville and Washington.

    I tend to blame the coaches.Crosby has carried two mediocre teams to the Cup back-to-back once he didn’t have Bylsma around.

    I agree with your basic premise that championships are the yardstick.

    I thought it was strange that you were applying that standard to the 2016-17 team. The story there was turnaround and it was an excellent story. Could have had a better ending. The team that PC had assembled was, at the start of the playoffs, the best in the West.

    You kept saying (and you keep saying) Anaheim is a great team, a contender. The Oilers should have easily got past those guys instead of losing 4 out of their last 5 games. The fact they did lose 4 out of 5 games is a problem for our organization, not a sign of Anaheim’s awesomeness. NSH did what we should’ve done, beat them in 6.

    When a veteran coach doesn’t win it all, he’s going to have a record of missed opportunities. TMac losing a series in which he’s up 2-0 and headed home (or up 3-0 late in game 5) is now part of his sad playoff record. So, yeah, questioning TMac for the playoff result seems fair. I think he must have felt he was playing with house money, instead of seeing he had a window. He took his SJS game plan against ANA and he was slow to adjust when Getzlaf started to blow up. Missed opportunity.

    For me, your take on TMac is now relevant. He has to take this team further to, well, basically show he can take a team further. It’s hard for the Oilers as a team and an organization to have swagger when their veteran coach hasn’t made the Finals.

    But then you go and say Crosby led two mediocre(!!) teams to the Cup. That forward group for PIT was so far from mediocre that you can’t even see mediocre from where they are. PIT understands strength and depth in the forward ranks is the biggest factor in winning. You’ve said defensemen are the most important pieces.

    It’s a conundrum…

  64. LMHF#1 says:

    Evilas,

    Being happy about it is different than redeeming what happened. People should absolutely enjoy whatever happens.

    But it wasn’t worth it, and didn’t have to be what it was. I won’t be able to take that level of BS if Jones, or Matheson or Spector or whoever starts exonerating Lowe, MacTavish, Tambellini, Katz and the rest for their role in the wasted years. This was not the only path back to glory. Far from it.

  65. godot10 says:

    Side: So in one breath, you say it’s the coaches and GM that win the team cups and players aren’t as important.

    In the next breath, it’s “Crosby is carrying mediocre teams on his back to win cups once he didn’t have Bylsma around”.

    Which is it? Is Mike Sullivan carrying the team on his back or Crosby?

    A good GM, a good coach, and a generational player…winning Cups is a piece of cake…see Pittsburgh the last two years with thoroughly less than mediocre defensemen.

  66. Georges says:

    frjohnk:
    I hope we win 5more again.

    But with the parity of todays NHL, there is the possibility that Connor McDavid as an Oiler never wins the Cup.Oilers could be elite and balanced for a decade and not win the cup.

    Do we fault Chia or whoever the GM is in this circumstance?

    I wouldn’t.

    Its tough to win.

    In the past 9 seasons, 4 teams have won the Cup, 2 of them have won 3 times, 1 of them has won twice. That’s not parity. Some teams and organizations win more than their share as determined by luck. We should be one of those teams. We have a very rare and important piece for the next 9 years. Not winning would be a sign of organizational bungling. If fault finding was easy when we were losing, it’ll be even easier when we’re winning but not winning it all.

  67. anjinsan says:

    ” the Reinhart trade, bad as it was, was paid for by the Matt Benning signing.”

    My lord, you just wrote that load of nonsense. What a steaming pile.

    We lost Barzal and Carlo and you say signing Benning makes up for it? Thou art daft.

  68. godot10 says:

    Georges:

    But then you go and say Crosby led two mediocre(!!) teams to the Cup. That forward group for PIT was so far from mediocre that you can’t even see mediocre from where they are. PIT understands strength and depth in the forward ranks is the biggest factor in winning. You’ve said defensemen are the most important pieces.

    It’s a conundrum…

    Sullivan’s was flexible in his systems and designed a system that wouldn’t expose his barely mediocre defensemen. i.e. play fast, if no pass outlet option out of the D-zone…place to open space in the neutral zone to create a 50-50 race with speedy wingers.

    Playing fast is a thing. Kris Russell plays slow. 4 more years of playing slow.

  69. Ryan says:

    Slightly off topic, but does this picture of Chiarelli evoke some semblance of the 70’s in anyone else looking at it?

    Something about those green chairs, wood paneling and his Glen check blazer.

  70. Evilas says:

    Ryan,

    It’s the jacket, the pattern is correct, the colors are not gaudy enough. Plus not enough gold chains and chest hair.

  71. Evilas says:

    LMHF#1,

    Meh. To me, their incompetence got us where we are today. Their craptastic GMing got us McDavid and I am okay with it. I wonder how many die hard Leaf fans are still whining about how Harold Ballard destroyed their franchise and set them back 30 years.

    Ballard is dead, the past is the past, time to move on, enjoy the now and look forward to what better days tomorrow brings.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    Who is our re: tonight? Nicholson are are we back to the d-men – I think we’ve only seen a few d-men if I”m not mistaken (which I might be).

  73. treevojo says:

    godot10: Sullivan’s was flexible in his systems and designed a system that wouldn’t expose his barely mediocre defensemen.i.e. play fast, if no pass outlet option out of the D-zone…place to open space in the neutral zone to create a 50-50 race with speedy wingers.

    Playing fast is a thing.Kris Russell plays slow.4 more years of playing slow.

    So it was Sullivan, Quenville, Sutter, Bowman, Sather and arbour that won all those cups.

    Good to know.

  74. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    anjinsan:
    ” the Reinhart trade, bad as it was, was paid for by the Matt Benning signing.”

    My lord,you just wrote that load of nonsense.What a steaming pile.

    We lost Barzal and Carlo and you say signing Benning makes up for it?Thou art daft.

    – But thats exatly the point: Chia knew he needed more D. He didn’t make one bet. In isolation, Benning = Chia genius. Griff = Chia moron.

    – He’s a good risk manager IMO. Not the guy who says: “we are comfortable with our D:”

    – Larsson, Sek, Benning, Russel is a huge haul of bona-fide D: he deserves massive props IMO

  75. russ99 says:

    godot10: Sullivan’s was flexible in his systems and designed a system that wouldn’t expose his barely mediocre defensemen.i.e. play fast, if no pass outlet option out of the D-zone…place to open space in the neutral zone to create a 50-50 race with speedy wingers.

    Playing fast is a thing.Kris Russell plays slow.4 more years of playing slow.

    Russell is on the ice 20 minutes a night tops. We just don’t play like that, and we win.

    There’s many paths to success in hockey, the Oilers have chosen theirs.

    You’d think 10 years of losing playing fast on the rush and paying no attention to defense would be enough for our fan base,

  76. frjohnk says:

    Georges: In the past 9 seasons, 4 teams have won the Cup, 2 of them have won 3 times, 1 of them has won twice. That’s not parity. Some teams and organizations win more than their share as determined by luck. We should be one of those teams. We have a very rare and important piece for the next 9 years. Not winning would be a sign of organizational bungling. If fault finding was easy when we were losing, it’ll be even easier when we’re winning but not winning it all.

    Georges: In the past 9 seasons, 4 teams have won the Cup, 2 of them have won 3 times, 1 of them has won twice. That’s not parity. Some teams and organizations win more than their share as determined by luck. We should be one of those teams. We have a very rare and important piece for the next 9 years. Not winning would be a sign of organizational bungling. If fault finding was easy when we were losing, it’ll be even easier when we’re winning but not winning it all.

    compare the 16th place team in the salary cap era to the 16th place team in the 80’s.
    That 80’s team had no chance to win the cup.
    The salary cap team has a better chance.
    better parity now. an 8th place team beating a 1st place team is not so much of an upset these days.

    These are the top 10 teams with the most regular season wins since the 05-06

    Tm W
    SJS 547
    PIT 536
    DET 532
    ANA 527
    NYR 522
    WSH 515
    CHI 511
    NSH 503
    BOS 501
    VAN 500

    These teams have been elite or balanced at various points since 05-06. Only Washington has not made the Cup final. 5 of these teams have won the Cup.

    I believe in the next decade the Oilers will be in the top 10 wins list, maybe even top 3 in wins

    The Oilers could be like the Pens and win 3 or maybe even more.

    Also possible they dominate regular season like San Jose have during some years but for whatever reason ( Run into hot goaltending, unfair reffing, injuries, bad bounces) come up short.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca