Rain Delay

The RE series I do as preview (and postmortem) each season involves a series of questions and answers from two fans. I stole the idea from Bill James and his wonderful Abstracts. He’d have a “Rain Delay” chapter, often about potential hall of famers. It’s a wonderful trick, it’s kind of a mind exercise. I confess the ‘bold type’ fellow is a collection of you, posters over the decade plus of comments. Here we go.

THE ATHLETIC

The special Lowetide offer is here. I’m getting some questions about content. So, the offer I just linked to is for The Athletic, meaning you have access to Jonathan Willis and BlackDogHatesSkunks and Minnia Feng and Sunil Agnihotri, but also to pieces from people like Tyler Dellow. You can get access to all of the writers and I have to say it’s a massive site. I love the Pronman stuff and also the Lebrun, Duhatschek, Mirtle, et cetera. Brilliant damned site.

I’ll have No. 7 winter prospect up later today or first thing tomorrow. Lots of wingers and defenders have made the list so far, not a goalie or center in sight.

RAIN DELAY

  1. Well, the season is over! Yeah, pretty close.
  2. WAIT, what? I thought you’d say it wasn’t over! Well, we’re probably 10 days from talking trade deadline selloffs and then draft chatter in January. Maybe the club rips off four road wins in a row, but maybe Talbot lets in a goal 90 seconds in.
  3. Take the gaspipe! This is my time to be angry! Oh, I’m sorry. Angry away.
  4.  You promised me a successful season! Ass! I did predict a strong year, slightly less impressive than a year ago. My bad. I’ll do better next year.
  5. This is a very unsatisfactory interaction. If I had a dime for every time…
  6. What went wrong? Well, most of the bets Peter Chiarelli made in summer haven’t worked out yet. Maybe they will long term and perhaps these solutions arrive just in time.
  7. What was that blasted Chiarelli shopping list of yours? Oh, yes. It was (in order) sign McDavid, sign Leon, lose little in the expansion draft, find a second-pairing RH blue with two-way acumen (didn’t do it), find a stopgap replacement for Andrej Sekera (Kris Russell), find a mirror man for Leon (Strome), cap relief (Eberle for Strome).
  8. What bets haven’t worked out? Basically all of them. The penalty killers can’t penalty kill (although it is improving), Ryan Strome and Kris Russell haven’t covered their investment and none of the kid wingers have stepped up. Darnell Nurse has made a step forward and that’s a positive.
  9. Anything else? Yes! Some veterans the team was counting on (Talbot, Letestu) have not delivered as expected.
  10. Anything else else? Injuries (even beyond Sekera) have had a tremendous impact on the team’s fortunes. Even the annual November flu has taken a toll. Leon Draiasitl is an example but there are others.
  11. How much of this is on Todd McLellan? Some, I’d say. He (like every coach) can be stubborn and his special teams are not rocking yet. I don’t blame him for leaving Leon Draisaitl on McDavid’s RW for so long, the combination of injuries and ineffective play forced his hand.
  12. How much of this is on the players? There are many on the roster who are posting numbers well south of career norms, and several youngsters who are failing to grab NHL jobs that are just sitting there. If this team continues to struggle a lot of these men won’t be back.
  13. Like? The kid wingers who aren’t teenagers are in trouble, third and fourth line are going to be looked at closely, they’ll move out some blue.
  14. What is good on this team? I like the top of the batting order among forwards offensively 5×5. Leon Draisaitl (2.63), Connor McDavid (2.45), Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (2.26) and Milan Lucic (2.09) are all posting quality numbers. Patrick Maroon (1.75) is in the range but after that (next up: Ryan Strome, 1.26) the offense dies. It’s like a baseball team with automatic outs after their No. 5 hitter. But the top and heart of the order are quality.
  15. Who do you like on defense? Everyone has their own preferred metric, I like Corsi Rel 5×5. Darnell Nurse (7.77), Yohann Auvitu (3.66) and Eric Gryba (3.34) are in the black. Adam Larsson (-1.72) and Oscar Klefbom (-2.24) are hovering around .500, while Matt Benning (-4.38) and Kris Russell (-6.87) are off the pace.
  16. What about Talbot? He hasn’t been good enough. A .905SP is backup goalie territory. Oilers need more from him, I expect they will get it.
  17. How much of this is on Peter Chiarelli? A lot, this is his club. Many of the bets PC made for this season (Strome, Slepyshev, Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Slepyshev, Russell, Jokinen) haven’t worked out or have been slow off the mark. He is responsible for the roster.
  18. Will it cost him the general manager’s job? I don’t think it will. The Oilers posted 103 points a season ago, Katz will give both GM and coach one more season to get it right.
  19. Will PC make a trade? He might. If OEL and or Max Pacioretty come available, well that’s a pretty interesting scenario.
  20. Who is on the block? If you’re trading for a big name, it’s going to take multiple pieces.
  21. Three for one! Yes. Oscar, Jesse, the 2018 first rounder, any and all in the system, it’s a limited menu but there is some talent at the front end of the list.
  22. If they flush the general manager, who replaces him? It’s a fairly long list of possibles. Wayne Gretzky, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, Keith Gretzky, Scott Howson, Bob Green.
  23. Scott Howson doesn’t work for the Oilers. Yes, he does. V-P, Development.
  24. You’re a lying sack of cement! Okay, fine. Have it your way.
  25. Why do you hate Jesse Puljujarvi? I like him a lot, he’s a gigantic PF type and I bet he emerges as a 20-goal man, possibly soon. However, part of the reason Chiarelli dealt Taylor Hall (and Jordan Eberle) was based on the big Finn being able to establish himself as an NHL player with goal-scoring ability. It hasn’t happened yet. That isn’t hatred, that’s observation.
  26. But you would trade him? For a young scoring-winger under control who is more established at the NHL level.
  27. Should PC have drafted Sergachev? Yes. Or Tkachuk. That’s hindsight though, we (I) would have been all over him if the Oilers had passed on Puljujarvi.
  28. Where did you have Sergachev on your list? I had Puljujarvi No. 3 and Sergachev No. 6. Source
  29. What happens at the deadline? If the Oilers are buyers, look out. PC is going to load up ala Kevin Lowe in 2006. If they are sellers, look out the other way. Lots of men flying out of town, and that will be a harbinger of the change we’ll see in summer. If PC stays, some veterans are going to be gone (should the team miss the playoffs).
  30. What one thing can Peter Chiarelli do to appease fans and help the team at the same time? Trade for Taylor Hall.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy show, 10 this morning TSN1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Pierre Lebrun, TSN and The Athletic. Leafs Oh My, Oilers Oh No, Habs Oh My God.
  • Andrew Bucholtz, Awful Annoucing. What a CFL weekend!
  • Jason Gregor, TSN1260. Jason Maas makes a baffling call plus can the Oilers pull out of this tailspin?
  • Corey Graham, TSN1260. Oil Kings complete road trip and are in a world of hurt.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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333 Responses to "Rain Delay"

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  1. HiddenDarts says:

    Appreciate the clarification re: the Athletic. I thought the fee got you everything, and not just Edmonton/Oilers writing.

    Interesting, and yet much less interesting of an offer without the rest of the world of sports!

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    Alright, the boys had a day off yesterday to, hopefully, stew in the ramifications of yet another loss in a game that they should have/could have won. I’m hoping these players have the professional pride where these losses and the aggregate of the losses actually effects them.

    I’m hoping for a solid practice today and then lets get going on the rest of this road trip.

    STL is a tough team but there are winnable games on this trip and I’m still expecting them to get a good 6 points out of the remaining four games.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    “WAIT, what? I thought you’d say it wasn’t over! Well, we’re probably 10 days from talking trade deadline selloffs and then draft chatter in January. Maybe the club rips off four road wins in a row, but maybe Talbot lets in a goal 90 seconds in.”

    I’m still hoping for the former while realizing the later is likely more realistic at this point.

    Go Oilers!

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m sick of reading posts 90% of which are analyzing each and every move that Chiarelli has made and/or decision that McLellan makes.

    Fair enough but I’d rather be reading posts about much much different events.

    A 4-5 game winning streak would turn the season around and the tone around.

    No, it doesn’t seem likely but you never know.

    Did it seem likely that the flames would rip off 10 in a row last year?

    They suck and they did it.

    We suck and we can do it to!

    Go Oilers!

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    “How much of this is on Todd McLellan? Some, I’d say. He (like every coach) can be stubborn and his special teams are not rocking yet. I don’t blame him for leaving Leon Draisaitl on McDavid’s RW for so long, the combination of injuries and ineffective play forced his hand.”

    This statement should be limited to the PK (which has looked MUCH better recently and has actually being dangerous).

    The PP is 10th in the NHL.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    No, Klefbom, our 1st round pick, Nurse, Puljijarvi – these are not untradeable assets – they are on the table.

    With that said, in my mind, they are untradeable in a “rental situation” – I am not on board with trading any such piece for a short term stop-gap fix. Presumably it would be the 1st round pick and/or Puljijarvi that would go in such an unfathomable panic move by our GM and I would be an unhappy Pouzar.

    If any of those pieces get traded, it needs to be a material “hockey deal” that provides value back that will help the team now and in the future.

  7. Jethro Tull says:

    Actually, i believe the bets that haven’t paid off are, in no particular order;

    Talbot’s SV%
    Yamamoto
    Pulujarvi
    Kassian
    Sleppy (injured)
    Russell
    Klefbom
    Khaira
    Letestu
    Pakarinen
    Jokinen
    Etc…

    The bets were that if these players didn’t at least march in place, but to actually all take a step forward. Chia tried for the spread. This is what it looks like when none of them come in. If just half of these guys played to even last year’s level, then we wouldn’t be contemplating a trip to Mordor.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Jethro: Khaira has played well to my eye, after a slow start.

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    “What happens at the deadline? If the Oilers are buyers, look out. PC is going to load up ala Kevin Lowe in 2006. If they are sellers, look out the other way. Lots of men flying out of town, and that will be a harbinger of the change we’ll see in summer. If PC stays, some veterans are going to be gone (should the team miss the playoffs).”

    From well back in the summer, I professed by hesitation with being true buyers. Our cap situation requires value contracts in the top 6 on the wing – young players on cheap contracts outproducing their cap hits.

    In order for this to work, we need a steady stream of prospects, presumably accumulated through the draft.

    I’ve been concerned how we reconcile this need with being buyers at the deadline and trading futures that we need (picks/prospects) for short term help.

    Unfortunately, it is looking like this problem might fix itself this year (and, in fact, we could be sellers which would be a boon to this process)

  10. Bobcaygeon says:

    11. On the coaches, volume shooting with this roster is killing the Oilers….So many odd man rushes gained from transition….They are so stubborn about it as well, its just a bad idea!

    12. Yes, some of the players, Letestu & Talbot who seems to be given a pass by the MSM for some reason? The rest is on the GM, the coach cant make AHL players better.

    17 & 27 Full blame, I see Chiarelli as a very bad investment, drafting is poor…I don’t understand as reported they go from Sergachev a huge RHD to Puljujarvi……especially when the Finnish national team executive doesn’t draft him…….shouldn’t bells and alarms start ringing? What makes him think they know more about this player than the Fins themselves?

    Ok, hindsights a bitch. However, it cant explain why the Oilers didn’t target Keller ether who’s numbers were in line with both Eichel and Matthews….AND….is a center.

    Just to beat a dead horse one more time DeBrincat……nobody can use to small this time, not after Yamamotto

  11. who says:

    Just curious LT, but are you advocating for trading Klefbom, JP, and a 1st rounder for someone like OEL? Or are you just speculating that is what Chia will do?
    I would preach patience myself. The core of the team (Macdavid, Drai, Nuge, JP, Larsson, Klefbom, Nurse) are all still very young and are under team control for a minimum of 4 years. Doesn’t make sense to blow this up.
    One thing that scared me about Chia when he was hired was his quote about not being a patient man. I do not consider that a good quality in a GM. That impatience bit him in the ass in the Reinhart deal. I hope it doesn’t bite him again in the next few months.

  12. Dicky94 says:

    I wonder what Montreal is wanting for Galchenyuk? Do you move Maroon now. Montreal needs a guy like him.

  13. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide:
    Jethro: Khaira has played well to my eye, after a slow start.

    As you said, some of these may pay off long term, but Pete expected short term. I don’t mind all of these bets, but he made too many.

  14. JimmyV1965 says:

    I think Talbot is by far the biggest culprit. I would say he has directly cost us four games and has stole one game against the Islanders. A three-game swing makes us 10-8. We pick apart the mistakes of every player but there will always be mistakes. There were mistakes last year and they’ll be more this year. The Stars made way more mistakes than we did last game yet bishop held them in and won the game. I really don’t want to crap on Talbot but he has given up way too many free goals and hasn’t been sharp early in games.

  15. doritogrande says:

    You’re right about The Athletic providing great content. Just this morning from LeBrun, he makes our GM look like an outright drafting idiot by being quoted saying that we drafted for need instead of BPA on Puljujarvi.

    With that said, Jesse was the pick there, 100%. What’s that Winston Churchill quote though? “It’s better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt?”

  16. leadfarmer says:

    So with Vegas in 2nd place in division (First Really 1pt back 2games in hand) Can we really say its the roster.
    Jokinen doubled his points in his first 3 games as a king while Cammalleri has 0.
    We’re playing this grinding game that doesnt work anymore. Time for the braintrust to go

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    who:
    Just curious LT, but are you advocating for trading Klefbom, JP,and a 1st rounder for someone like OEL? Or are you just speculating that is what Chia will do?
    I would preach patience myself. The core of the team (Macdavid, Drai, Nuge, JP, Larsson, Klefbom, Nurse) are all still very young and are under team control for a minimum of 4 years. Doesn’t make sense to blow this up.
    One thing that scared me about Chia when he was hired was his quote about not being a patient man. I do not consider that a good quality in a GM.That impatience bit him in the ass in the Reinhart deal. I hope it doesn’t bite him again in the next few months.

    I agree – I don’t want this blown up either.

    I don’t want a panic trade of future or developing young roster players for immediate short term help.

    We should only be in a position to trade futures for immediate short term help if we are a contender and we are looking for a move or two to put us over the top – we are not in that situation.

    In fact, holding pat and actually being sellers at the deadline (if we get to that point) could have a material benefit for building a champion over the next 3-4 years.

    No big moves unless they are “hockey trades” that provide value under control coming back.

  18. leadfarmer says:

    Dicky94:
    I wonder what Montreal is wanting for Galchenyuk? Do you move Maroon now. Montreal needs a guy like him.

    UFA Patrick Maroon? Why would Montreal do that

  19. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dicky94:
    I wonder what Montreal is wanting for Galchenyuk? Do you move Maroon now. Montreal needs a guy like him.

    MTL won’t trade a material roster player for a player on an expiring contract unless they know he can be re-signed.

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    doritogrande:
    You’re right about The Athletic providing great content. Just this morning from LeBrun, he makes our GM look like an outright drafting idiot by being quoted saying that we drafted for need instead of BPA on Puljujarvi.

    With that said, Jesse was the pick there, 100%. What’s that Winston Churchill quote though? “It’s better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt?”

    I saw a link to Lebrun’s article re: the top end of the 2016 draft and am looking forward to reading it this evening.

  21. Dustylegnd says:

    If they flush the general manager, who replaces him? It’s a fairly long list of possibles. Wayne Gretzky, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, Keith Gretzky, Scott Howson, Bob Green.

    I just checked, Lou Lamerillo does not have a contract, but then again we wouldn’t want to hire somebody who went to the Stanley Cup final 5 times winning three, grinding out value contracts regardless of who it was that needed to be re-signed.

    No indeed lets choose form a list of ex players that somehow are supposed to be NHL GM’s because they played for Sather in the glory years, surely you are trolling us LT??????

    Gretzky F as a coach and by all accounts completely disinterested in the coaching and borderline incompetent as a coach

    McTavish F as GM here last time

    Howson F as GM in Columbus…look at the turn around since his firing

    Bob Green, architect of the Reinhart trade is my best guess, very encouraging
    Keith Gretzky, mini me to Chiarelli,

    The list of potential GM’s you have provided is enough to make me lose all faith in the organization, but then again, the fact the Oil have no young managerial talent and continue to rely in Howson and MacT as trusted officers says everything about this teams lack of growth and success

    I look at the deals Goudreau and Monahan are signed to, I look at Dougy Hamilton on D for the same trade price as Reinhart and I want to PUKE

    GORD help us, for the sake of the fan base…..Talbot has to get insanely hot to save all of us from Chiarelli and his continuing stupidity

  22. RMGS says:

    At the pivotal 20-game mark, the team built by Peter Chiarelli and coached by Todd McLellan is:

    – 3rd best at generating high-danger shot attempts
    – 4th best at generating venue-and-score-adjusted shot attempts
    – #1 at generating scoring chances

    There are holes on this team, but why are these “process” numbers getting so much less love nowadays?

    Of course, the team is also:

    – 3rd worst in shooting %
    – less than average in save %

    I’m not up to date on the latest developments, but what happened to the days when PDO mattered?

  23. Bag of Pucks says:

    Had a great night’s sleep. Tasty breakfast, travel mug of java. Smooth commute. The day ahead looks positive.

    And yep, that Jason Maas call is still the worst coaching decision I’ve seen in 40+ years of watching professional football.

  24. Dicky94 says:

    leadfarmer,

    Desperation.

  25. dustrock says:

    LT your comment on who would replace Chiarelli is incredible and spot-on.

  26. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Dustylegnd,

    – I’ve said this before. I can totally see a narrative where Chia gets dumped, and MacT, who bleeds Oil comes back: “I learned a lot from Chia, I respect a lot of what he did for this team, but we felt there was a need for change, yet at the same time continuity within the organization”

    – that’s the day I’m done with the oil should it pass… We have approx 10 kicks at the can of cups with Drai and McD: finding the right recipe for the rest is trial and error, and luck (Hi Pitts)

    – Gretz sucked in Arizona. MacT sucked, Howson sucked. Lowe a joke. The only team any of these guys get hired is with the Oil (well Gretz as an ambassador for any team).

    – These are not hockey minds, they happened to play on one of the greatest teams of all time, then that team got bought by a guy who idolized them.

    – Criticize Chia on merit, but please lord don’t go back to the OBC, who you know is lurking…

  27. Lowetide says:

    who:
    Just curious LT, but are you advocating for trading Klefbom, JP,and a 1st rounder for someone like OEL? Or are you just speculating that is what Chia will do?

    No, I wouldn’t trade Klefbom, JP or the first rounder. I would trade Puljujarvi for a young NHL scorer.

  28. stush18 says:

    Bobcaygeon:
    11. On the coaches, volume shooting with this roster is killing the Oilers….So many odd man rushes gained from transition….They are so stubborn about it as well, its just a bad idea!

    12. Yes, some of the players, Letestu & Talbot who seems to be given a pass by the MSM for some reason? The rest is on the GM, the coach cant make AHL players better.

    17 & 27 Full blame, I see Chiarelli as a very bad investment, drafting is poor…I don’t understand as reported they go from Sergachev a huge RHD to Puljujarvi……especially when the Finnish national team executive doesn’t draft him…….shouldn’t bells and alarms start ringing? What makes him think they know more about this player than the Fins themselves?

    Ok, hindsights a bitch. However, it cant explain why the Oilers didn’t target Keller ether who’s numbers were in line with both Eichel andMatthews….AND….is a center.

    Just to beat a dead horse one more time DeBrincat……nobody can use to small this time, not after Yamamotto

    Sergachev shoots left, and was the oilers choice. They had a deal in place to move back until JP fell. I seriously anyone can be unhappy with grabbing JP right now, let alone at the time of the draft. Unless you enjoy using hindsight to justify moves the oilers could have made.

    Also why would the oilers draft Keller when they have mcdavid, draisaitl and nuge up the middle right now?

    I think everyone needs to cool it on counting out JP. It’s well documented these big her players take longer to round into form.

  29. OmJo says:

    What one thing can Peter Chiarelli do to appease fans and help the team at the same time? Trade for Taylor Hall.

    Pretty much, yeah.

  30. OmJo says:

    RMGS,

    I think the concern for some isn’t that regression won’t happen, but that it will happen to late to save the season.

  31. OmJo says:

    Dustylegnd,

    Lou Lamoriello is the manager of the Leafs.

  32. TheVengeFulOne says:

    It’s hard to be positive when most of these failed bets were predictable. Hoped for the best, but it turned out like always.

  33. godot10 says:

    who:
    Just curious LT, but are you advocating for trading Klefbom, JP,and a 1st rounder for someone like OEL? Or are you just speculating that is what Chia will do?
    I would preach patience myself. The core of the team (Macdavid, Drai, Nuge, JP, Larsson, Klefbom, Nurse) are all still very young and are under team control for a minimum of 4 years. Doesn’t make sense to blow this up.
    One thing that scared me about Chia when he was hired was his quote about not being a patient man. I do not consider that a good quality in a GM.That impatience bit him in the ass in the Reinhart deal. I hope it doesn’t bite him again in the next few months.

    Klefbom is signed forever for just over $4 million. Ekman-Larsson will be in line for over $7 million per season forever after next season. Klefbom is by far the better value. He has a Josi contract.

    #KlefbomIsTheNewPetry

  34. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    RMGS,

    – I know: rather than start with the math positives, its about the coach being stubborn, or locker-room turmoil, or system thingy. We are standard deviation away from normal in key measures

    – LT doesn’t even post the team fancy stats after games anymore (take a long time I get it)

    – life’s a b$tch, and the Oil are in the results business

    – I liked what LT said a few days ago: feed them some apples…

  35. frjohnk says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Dustylegnd,

    – I’ve said this before.I can totally see a narrative where Chia gets dumped, and MacT, who bleeds Oil comes back: “I learned a lot from Chia, I respect a lot of what he did for this team, but we felt there was a need for change, yet at the same time continuity within the organization”

    – that’s the day I’m done with the oil should it pass…We have approx 10 kicks at the can of cups with Drai and McD: finding the right recipe for the rest is trial and error, and luck (Hi Pitts)

    – Gretz sucked in Arizona.MacT sucked, Howson sucked.Lowe a joke.The only team any of these guys get hired is with the Oil (well Gretz as an ambassador for any team).

    – These are not hockey minds, they happened to play on one of the greatest teams of all time, then that team got bought by a guy who idolized them.

    – Criticize Chia on merit, but please lord don’t go back to the OBC, who you know is lurking…

    Just like I would have no issue trading Klefbom, Nurse or JP for good value coming back, I would totally be fine with Chai being fired today….as long as the replacement is a guy who has a vision to where the league is and where it is going.

    Like you, I don’t want anybody from the OBC.

  36. OmJo says:

    leadfarmer: UFA Patrick Maroon?Why would Montreal do that

    The same Montreal that traded Subban for Weber.
    The same Montreal that traded Sergachev for Druin.

    (Yes they weren’t UFAs)

    I honestly wouldn’t put it past Bergevin. He’s almost as bad at trades as Chiarelli.

    Actually, a trade between the two would be comical. And terrifying. Lol.

  37. who says:

    Lowetide: No, I wouldn’t trade Klefbom, JP or the first rounder. I would trade Puljujarvi for a young NHL scorer.

    I guess it would depend on the young scorer and how many years he is under team control. I still see a potentially dominant power forward in JP but am willing to acknowledge he’s not a sure thing.
    I would still be inclined to roll the dice with him.

  38. geowal says:

    HiddenDarts:
    Appreciate the clarification re: the Athletic. I thought the fee got you everything, and not just Edmonton/Oilers writing.

    Interesting, and yet much less interesting of an offer without the rest of the world of sports!

    I think you misread that, the fee does get you everything, LT just emphasizes the Oilers content. Eg I also get this Lebrun article everyone is mentioning, baseball, football (no cfl) etc, and I signed up via here.

  39. Lowetide says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    RMGS,

    – LT doesn’t even post the team fancy stats after games anymore (take a long time I get it)

    I post the postgame stats in the following day’s item here. Example:
    http://lowetide.ca/2017/11/19/rockin-pneumonia-and-the-boogie-woogie-flu/

  40. geowal says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Had a great night’s sleep. Tasty breakfast, travel mug of java. Smooth commute. The day ahead looks positive.

    And yep, that Jason Maas call is still the worst coaching decision I’ve seen in 40+ years of watching professional football.

    All that shivering to see it pissed away. If they gambled and failed, so be it, that’s football. But don’t beat yourself.

  41. godot10 says:

    doritogrande:
    You’re right about The Athletic providing great content. Just this morning from LeBrun, he makes our GM look like an outright drafting idiot by being quoted saying that we drafted for need instead of BPA on Puljujarvi.

    With that said, Jesse was the pick there, 100%. What’s that Winston Churchill quote though? “It’s better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt?”

    The origin of that quote is from the Bible, probably Proverbs 17:28

  42. TheVengeFulOne says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Had a great night’s sleep. Tasty breakfast, travel mug of java. Smooth commute. The day ahead looks positive.

    And yep, that Jason Maas call is still the worst coaching decision I’ve seen in 40+ years of watching professional football.

    The only thing I can think is that he thought the wind would get him a rough off the kickoff. That isn’t really a logical thought though. Only other option is he didn’t know the score, but he’s not stupid. It was weird because he isn’t usually passive like that anyway. We weren’t the better team yesterday, but he did concede defeat with that call.

  43. OmJo says:

    godot10: Klefbom is signed forever for just over $4 million.Ekman-Larsson will be in line for over $7 million per season forever after next season.Klefbom is by far the better value.He has a Josi contract.

    #KlefbomIsTheNewPetry

    Yep. We need more bargain contracts, not less.

    Ship off $4M shot-blocking phenom Kris Russell instead.

  44. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Lowetide: I post the postgame stats in the following day’s item here. Example:
    http://lowetide.ca/2017/11/19/rockin-pneumonia-and-the-boogie-woogie-flu/

    – Yes I love this: but maybe I’m losing my mind: I recall you had also some team possession metrics? If not apologize…

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    I look at the deals Goudreau and Monahan are signed to, I look at Dougy Hamilton on D for the same trade price as Reinhart and I want to PUKE

    The flames got great deals on those two contracts because they were up for re-signing a year before RFA salaries below up. If they were a “year younger” and needed to be re-signed this past spring/summer, they would each be much more expensive.

    Good on them, I guess – its highly annoying.

  46. RMGS says:

    OmJo:
    RMGS,

    I think the concern for some isn’t that regression won’t happen, but that it will happen to late to save the season.

    I get that, and I’ve never been one to reduce these situations to regression. But if one values these numbers, then she/he needs to give credit where it’s due. It’s entirely reasonable to suggest that, while far from perfect, Chiarelli and McLellan have built a very good team that’s mired in terrible luck.

  47. TheVengeFulOne says:

    geowal: All that shivering to see it pissed away. If they gambled and failed, so be it, that’s football. But don’t beat yourself.

    Thing is they got no strategic benefit from the fg. With or without the fg, they needed a td to win. Easier to get a 2pt convert than to drive into fg rance again. Plus you at least have the tie. It wasn’t even a field position choice. You aren’t pinning a team deeper than 20 off a kickoff. Especially when they have finch returning.

  48. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Dustylegnd,

    – I’ve said this before.I can totally see a narrative where Chia gets dumped, and MacT, who bleeds Oil comes back: “I learned a lot from Chia, I respect a lot of what he did for this team, but we felt there was a need for change, yet at the same time continuity within the organization”

    – that’s the day I’m done with the oil should it pass…We have approx 10 kicks at the can of cups with Drai and McD: finding the right recipe for the rest is trial and error, and luck (Hi Pitts)

    – Gretz sucked in Arizona.MacT sucked, Howson sucked.Lowe a joke.The only team any of these guys get hired is with the Oil (well Gretz as an ambassador for any team).

    – These are not hockey minds, they happened to play on one of the greatest teams of all time, then that team got bought by a guy who idolized them.

    – Criticize Chia on merit, but please lord don’t go back to the OBC, who you know is lurking…

    I don’t see that narrative coming to fruition but you never know.

    If MacT was re-hired as GM of the Oilers, I could imagine the vitrol, it would be like nothing we’ve seen before.

    I would still 100% cheer for this team just as much as I do now.

    I can’t imagine an organizational move that would made me “done with the team”.

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think everyone needs to cool it on counting out JP. It’s well documented these big her players take longer to round into form.

    …..but, but, but, PunjabiOil has spoken on the matter…..

  50. frjohnk says:

    OmJo: I honestly wouldn’t put it past Bergevin. He’s almost as bad at trades as Chiarelli.
    Actually, a trade between the two would be comical. And terrifying. Lol.

    It would be a 3 way trade involving the Islanders in which Snow would end up taking both Chia and Bergevin both to the wood shed.

  51. TheVengeFulOne says:

    OmJo: The same Montreal that traded Subban for Weber.
    The same Montreal that traded Sergachev for Druin.

    (Yes they weren’t UFAs)

    I honestly wouldn’t put it past Bergevin. He’s almost as bad at trades as Chiarelli.

    Actually, a trade between the two would be comical. And terrifying. Lol.

    Last time they planned on a deal, chia was gonna give him #4, Draisaitl and Nurse/Nuge for Subban. Please don’t let chia use the phone unsupervised.

  52. Cassandra says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Dustylegnd,

    – I’ve said this before.I can totally see a narrative where Chia gets dumped, and MacT, who bleeds Oil comes back: “I learned a lot from Chia, I respect a lot of what he did for this team, but we felt there was a need for change, yet at the same time continuity within the organization”

    – that’s the day I’m done with the oil should it pass…We have approx 10 kicks at the can of cups with Drai and McD: finding the right recipe for the rest is trial and error, and luck (Hi Pitts)

    – Gretz sucked in Arizona.MacT sucked, Howson sucked.Lowe a joke.The only team any of these guys get hired is with the Oil (well Gretz as an ambassador for any team).

    – These are not hockey minds, they happened to play on one of the greatest teams of all time, then that team got bought by a guy who idolized them.

    – Criticize Chia on merit, but please lord don’t go back to the OBC, who you know is lurking…

    I wouldn’t hire MacTavish as general manager. But is there any doubt anymore that Chiarelli has been much worse?

    Chiarelli is in Bergevin’s class of horrible general managers. It is a class of two.

  53. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    frjohnk: Just like I would have no issue trading Klefbom, Nurse or JP for good value coming back, I would totally be fine with Chai being fired today….as long as the replacement is a guy who has a vision to where the league isand where it is going.

    Like you, I don’t want anybody from the OBC.

    – The game has not evolved away from outshooting opponents, strong heat map shooting, possession, etc.

    – If our G was .917 vs .903 and/or sh% normal… We are 5 points out with 62 games left. PDO is creeping back up

    – That said, Masai Ujiri, the Raptors GM, he concluded last year that the Raptors had to tweak some strategies, and their coach bought in. Your seeing a lot more ball distribution and 3’s rather than isolation and 1 on 1’s with Derozan grinding down shot-clock to make a play

    – That was the GM’s public call about how things had to be tweaked, and with not much radical change in personal you can see the team is playing different

    – Look the team sucks to be sure, but please lord don’t blow it up (yet)

  54. TheVengeFulOne says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t see that narrative coming to fruition but you never know.

    If MacT was re-hired as GM of the Oilers, I could imagine the vitrol, it would be like nothing we’ve seen before.

    I would still 100% cheer for this team just as much as I do now.

    I can’t imagine an organizational move that would made me “done with the team”.

    RMGS:
    At the pivotal 20-game mark, the team built by Peter Chiarelli and coached by Todd McLellan is:

    – 3rd best at generating high-danger shot attempts
    – 4th best at generating venue-and-score-adjusted shot attempts
    – #1 at generating scoring chances

    There are holes on this team, but why are these “process” numbers getting so much less love nowadays?

    Of course, the team is also:

    – 3rd worst in shooting %
    – less than average in save %

    I’m not up to date on the latest developments, but what happened to the days when PDO mattered?

    When you are 3theta out on sh% to goals, there is a flaw in the metric. PDO isn’t a predictive stat. Said that from the beginning. There is 0 reason it should regress to 1. There are assumptions in the model which screw up it’s validity.

  55. godot10 says:

    Cassandra: I wouldn’t hire MacTavish as general manager.But is there any doubt anymore that Chiarelli has been much worse?

    Chiarelli is in Bergevin’s class of horrible general managers.It is a class of two.

    “I am satisfied with Schultz, Klefbom, Ference, Nikitin, and Fayne going forward.”

    “If you have to ask the question…”

    The hiring of the dementor.

  56. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    – For the record, I would find it very unlikely for the reasons you mention, but there will no doubt be some trial ballons and feelers sent out via MSM on this if this slide continues. Like a few MacT quotes, etc.

  57. jtblack says:

    IMO: LT pretty much predicted the troubles that this team is having. I thought Leon would run at 2C and for the 1st time in Forever, the Oilers would have 2 effective lines. DIDNT HAPPEN.

    Hindsight is a beauty, but maybe a Radim Vrbata signing and a RHD change it all Maybe they don’t.

    Tried to force JP and Yammy on RW 1 / 2. Next yr we will do the same to Benson (assuming Maroon is gone).

    Pressure is squarely on PC over the next 12 mths.

    I hope this team can get close to the playoffs so this is not a Lost Season …. But its not looking good…

  58. Bag of Pucks says:

    geowal: All that shivering to see it pissed away. If they gambled and failed, so be it, that’s football. But don’t beat yourself.

    Good on his players that they’re rallying around him and supporting the call, but I guarantee there’s a sizeable faction within that dressing room that are extremely frustrated that an entire season of hard work was flushed because the ‘Head Coach’ is seemingly incapable of basic situational awareness and odds calculation.

    His rationale was he wanted to setup his players to win the game and not tie? If that’s the case, score when you’re down there and go for two. Maas has no answer for that reply, so it seems clear he was not considering fully all the variables of the situation.

    Honestly, if this type of obvious incompetence occured in a boxing match, I’d be convinced the bout was rigged. Complete bush league.

    And this league wonders why its attendance is declining.

  59. Jethro Tull says:

    TheVengeFulOne: Last time they planned on a deal, chia was gonna give him #4, Draisaitl and Nurse/Nuge for Subban. Please don’t let chia use the phone unsupervised.

    No he wasn’t. That was the point. And it wasn’t Nuge, it was just Nurse, #4 and Drai that MTL asked for. And I would still make that trade, because now we have what I hope beyond hope isn’t a 6’4″ Yakupov, an overpriced underperforming RW and I guess Darnell, who. Is all potential, which means nothing in the here and now.

  60. digger50 says:

    frjohnk: It would be a 3 way trade involving the Islanders in which Snow would end up taking both Chia and Bergevin both to the wood shed.

    Peter does not need to be taken to the woodshed, he can find his way there all by himself!

  61. Side says:

    Jethro Tull: No he wasn’t. That was the point. And it wasn’t Nuge, it was just Nurse, #4 and Drai that MTL asked for. And I would still make that trade, because now we have what I hope beyond hope isn’t a 6’4″ Yakupov, an overpriced underperforming RW and I guess Darnell, who. Is all potential, which means nothing in the here and now.

    Ummm… Drai a 6’4” Yakupov?

    Darnell being only “all potential”?

    lol what?

  62. Jethro Tull says:

    Bag of Pucks: Good on his players that they’re rallying around him and supporting the call, but I guarantee there’s a sizeable faction within that dressing room that are extremely frustrated that an entire season of hard work was flushed because the Head Coach is seemingly incapable of basic situational awareness and odds calculation.

    His rationale was he wanted to setup his players to win the game and not tie? If that’s the case, score when you’re down there and go for two. Maas has no answer for that reply, so it seems clear he was not considering fully all the variables of the situation.

    Honestly, if that happened in a boxing match, I’d be convinced the bout was rigged. Complete bush league.

    And this league wonders why its attendance is declining.

    Nah, not good on the players. Call out BS when BS is called. A big problem with society in general these days. Maas wanted accountability and the players to own their mistakes during the losing streak. If the the hat fits, Jason. Hate it when people try to spin an obvious fuck up. So the Rider’s 13th man a few years ago was alternative counting strategy by the defensive coordinator and totally not a fuck up? Bruh, please😄

  63. Jethro Tull says:

    Side: Ummm… Drai a 6’4” Yakupov?

    Darnell being only “all potential”?

    lol what?

    JP a giant Yak. I really hope not, but that kid needs at least another hour in the slow cooker.

  64. OriginalPouzar says:

    McDavid is not on the ice for practice today.

    Presumably illness.

  65. Side says:

    Jethro Tull: JP a giant Yak. I really hope not, but that kid needs at least another hour in the slow cooker.

    Oh I see. I haven’t seen JP play enough NHL games yet to make a comparison to another player like that yet.

  66. OmJo says:

    frjohnk: It would be a 3 way trade involving the Islanders in which Snow would end up taking both Chia and Bergevin both to the wood shed.

    Lol!

  67. Jethro Tull says:

    Side: Ummm… Drai a 6’4” Yakupov?

    Darnell being only “all potential”?

    lol what?

    Darnell still isn’t a finished product and whilst doing ok, still playing in tbe order above his capabilities.

    The word potential only has meaning in the past and future tense, and philosophically means nothing in the present. Ask yourself what you had the potential to do when you are younger and what you are actually doing now. Still have that potential?

  68. Oilin4 says:

    Lowetide: I think you’ve given up on the season too early. We’ve had a murderous schedule so far, and have had some underperformance. Yet, we’re still within distance of our division. This season turn around fi some things happen even without a four game road winning streak (not saying it’s going to happen but it could):

    1. Klefbom and more importantly Talbot return to form.
    2. Sekera returns
    3. We remember there are alot of cupcake games left on the schedule (4 each against VGK, ARI, VAN), 3 against COL, 2 against BUF, etc) and no president’s trophy winners or two-time defending Cup champs.
    4. We string together a run like the August 2015 Blue Jays or 2017 Cleveland.
    5. Pick up a complementary winger and a penalty killer at the deadline.
    6. We don’t fall farther behind on this road trip.
    6. Russel gets injured (okay I’m just trolling on that one).

  69. russ99 says:

    This is why I’m giving our current staff/management as much rope as possible:

    If they flush the general manager, who replaces him? It’s a fairly long list of possibles. Wayne Gretzky, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, Keith Gretzky, Scott Howson, Bob Green.

    Katz is still messing with the fabric of the hockey club by keeping around his old boys/drinking buddies.

    Chiarelli’s name is on the door but how much scouting is getting turned upside down by old boy hires?

  70. OmJo says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Look the team sucks to be sure, but please lord don’t blow it up (yet)

    Basically what I was saying at the end of 15-16, lol.

  71. Jethro Tull says:

    Side: Oh I see. I haven’t seen JP play enough NHL games yet to make a comparison to another player like that yet.

    Only in the hockey sense….sense! But he’s showing improvement. Couple of decent games, but we need the JP 3yrs from now. Just as we need the Nurse 2yrs from now.

  72. russ99 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Actually, i believe the bets that haven’t paid off are, in no particular order;

    Talbot’s SV%
    Yamamoto
    Pulujarvi
    Kassian
    Sleppy (injured)
    Russell
    Klefbom
    Khaira
    Letestu
    Pakarinen
    Jokinen
    Etc…

    The bets were that if these players didn’t at least march in place, but to actually all take a step forward. Chia tried for the spread. This is what it looks like when none of them come in. If just half of these guys played to even last year’s level, then we wouldn’t be contemplating a trip to Mordor.

    All of the above, except for Talbot is primarily due to coaching utilization. And you can make a case for Talbot too considering how rare it is for LB to get a start.

  73. Bruce McCurdy says:

    JimmyV1965: I really don’t want to crap on Talbot but he has given up way too many free goals and hasn’t been sharp early in games.

    To this end, Oilers have trailed at the 10-minute mark of the first period in 9 of their 20 games. Oilers have been outscored by a net 14-4 over those 200 minutes. I can’t give you save or shooting percentages, but that’s a per 60 goals-for of 1.20, and a goals-against average of 4.20. Both unacceptable.

    Is some of that on Talbot? Absolutely. Those free gifts that opened the scoring in the last two games, both regulation losses to tough conference rivals, were individually tough to swallow and collectively apt to cause projectile vomiting. It’s one thing to ask for a save, but when the other guys score without shooting, well…

  74. OmJo says:

    godot10: “I am satisfied with Schultz, Klefbom, Ference, Nikitin, and Fayne going forward.”

    “If you have to ask the question…”

    The hiring of the dementor.

    I’ll see your Schultz, Klefbom, Ference, Nikitin and Fayne and raise you Russell, Lucic, Jokinen, Strome, and Gryba.

    Chiarelli pretty much did with the forwards what TMac did with the defence?

  75. Jethro Tull says:

    russ99: All of the above, except for Talbot is primarily due to coaching utilization. And you can make a case for Talbot too considering how rare it is for LB to get a start.

    Pretty sure McLellan doesn’t tell these guys to go out and play like shit.

  76. digger50 says:

    I complained about the lack of moves all summer, old news now and waste to beat it to death.

    The roster flaws being exposed so early may be a good thing and a good lesson. Asset management, contract management, player assessment all must get better. This is now undeniable and should be addressed internally by the Org.

    This season however is in the hands of the coach and team leaders. If you trust the math it appears the players are doing well but not having success. This will come.

    Is the coach doing enough to motivate or help the underperformers. Playing to strengths? Promoting confidence? Adjusting tactics? I cannot say for certain myself. I do notice reoccurring trends through 20 games. These trends must be ID by coaching and reversed. I’ll mention the breakout in particular.

    Finally the unknown factor. Is there one? If so then the answer is also unknown to us as well, and we wait.

  77. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Dustylegnd: surely you are trolling us LT??????

    What was your first clue?

  78. frjohnk says:

    Bruce McCurdy: To this end, Oilers have trailed at the 10-minute mark of the first period in 9 of their 20 games. Oilers have been outscored by a net 14-4 over those 200 minutes. I can’t give you save or shooting percentages, but that’s a per 60 goals-for of 1.20, and a goals-against average of 4.20. Both unacceptable.

    Is some of that on Talbot? Absolutely. Those free gifts that opened the scoring in the last two games, both regulation losses to tough conference rivals, were individually tough to swallow and collectively apt to cause projectile vomiting. It’s one thing to ask for a save, but when the other guys score without shooting, well…

    Well at least he is not peaking too early

  79. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McDavid is not on the ice for practice today.

    Presumably illness.

    If he’s sick do you sit him for the game tomorrow or still play him and hope what happened Saturday doesn’t happen again?

    I think I sit him. Let him recover properly and be 100%.

  80. Bruce McCurdy says:

    RMGS: I’m not up to date on the latest developments, but what happened to the days when PDO mattered?

    PDO reminds me of what Harry Neale used to say about goaltending: it’s 75% of hockey unless you don’t have it, in which case it’s 100%

  81. russ99 says:

    Jethro Tull: Pretty sure McLellan doesn’t tell these guys to go out and play like shit.

    No, but there’s a real disconnect between Peter’s moves and Todd’s utilization.

  82. russ99 says:

    MacTavish caved on Gagner’s contract, anointed Schultz as a Norris winner, hired Eakins, ruined Yak, wasted Petry.

    All Chiarelli ever did is send the beloved Austins away, to try and make the hockey club better.

    Not even close.

  83. russ99 says:

    OmJo: If he’s sick do you sit him for the game tomorrow or still play him and hope what happened Saturday doesn’t happen again?

    I think I sit him. Let him recover properly and be 100%.

    Agree, maybe it will help, give some other players those minutes and see if something sparks.

    I’d go with Broissoit again too.

  84. digger50 says:

    russ99:
    This is why I’m giving our current staff/management as much rope as possible:

    If they flush the general manager, who replaces him? It’s a fairly long list of possibles. Wayne Gretzky, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, Keith Gretzky, Scott Howson, Bob Green.

    Katz is still messing with the fabric of the hockey club by keeping around his old boys/drinking buddies.

    Chiarelli’s name is on the door but how much scouting is getting turned upside down by old boy hires?

    Any good GM in any business should be training and mentoring someone to replace themselves. Who might that be in the Oilers Org?

  85. Side says:

    OmJo: I’ll see your Schultz, Klefbom, Ference, Nikitin and Fayne and raise you Russell, Lucic, Jokinen, Strome, and Gryba.

    Chiarelli pretty much did with the forwards what TMac did with the defence?

    Why are people ragging on Chiarelli for Jokinen? He was a good, safe bet and I don’t recall a lot of people complaining about the signing.

    Also, Russell, Strome, Lucic and Gryba are better players now than Ference, Nikitin and Fayne were when they signed with the Oilers.

    People comparing MacT to Chiarelli are reaching, here.

  86. digger50 says:

    OmJo: If he’s sick do you sit him for the game tomorrow or still play him and hope what happened Saturday doesn’t happen again?

    I think I sit him. Let him recover properly and be 100%.

    Play him,

    Must win right now and a sick Connor is still good for two points.

    Nuge up front playing the toughs. Try and get Connor some shade.

  87. frjohnk says:

    russ99:
    MacTavish caved on Gagner’s contract, anointed Schultz as a Norris winner, hired Eakins, ruined Yak, wasted Petry.

    All Chiarelli ever did is send the beloved Austins away, to try and make the hockey club better.

    Not even close.

    Better way to compare would be to look at all the moves both made.

    I agree that Chia is better.

  88. texmex says:

    russ99,

    Sit McDavid in a must win game?

    We might only have a 5% chance of making the playoffs this season (or whatever it is), but that 5% goes to 0% if you sit Connor.

    I’d take Connor at 50% over anybody else on the Oilers roster.

    Just my 2 cents.

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Jack Michaels:

    Slepyshev is back on the ice… could be back by the weekend. McDavid undoubtedly will play tomorrow, as rest of lines are the same.

  90. frjohnk says:

    texmex:
    russ99,

    Sit McDavid in a must win game?

    We might only have a 5% chance of making the playoffs this season (or whatever it is), but that 5% goes to 0% if you sit Connor.

    I’d take Connor at 50% over anybody else on the Oilers roster.

    Just my 2 cents.

    If McDavid were to sit, good possibility our bottom 6 centers are Malone and Letestu.
    Bottom of the roster 5 on 5 goal scoring floodgates would surely open.

  91. OmJo says:

    Side: Why are people ragging on Chiarelli for Jokinen? He was a good, safe bet and I don’t recall a lot of people complaining about the signing.

    Also, Russell, Strome, Lucic and Gryba are better players now than Ference, Nikitin and Fayne were when they signed with the Oilers.

    People comparing MacT to Chiarelli are reaching, here.

    Some of that was in jest, some of it was trying to point out just because TMac was a bad GM doesn’t mean Chiarelli isn’t, too.

    Also, I was looking forward to Jokinen. Bought into the hype. That said, the Pouliot buyout to make room for him was an unfortunate move.

  92. Bruce McCurdy says:

    If McDavid is physically able to perform and you sit him, that would be like, I dunno, kicking a field goal at the end of a game that you trail by a touchdown or something similarly unthinkable

  93. Bobcaygeon says:

    stush18: Sergachev shoots left, and was the oilers choice. They had a deal in place to move back until JP fell.I seriously anyone can be unhappy with grabbing JP right now, let alone at the time of the draft.Unless you enjoy using hindsight to justify moves the oilers could have made.

    Also why would the oilers draft Keller when they have mcdavid, draisaitl and nuge up the middle right now?

    I think everyone needs to cool it on counting out JP. It’s well documented these big her players take longer to round into form.

    When a Finnish national executive passes on a Finnish player you don’t find that at all interesting? Who would have more insight into the Finnish player than a Finnish national team executive???

    Furthermore, during the draft it came out that Kekalainen wasn’t going to drat JP regardless…This is another massive sign.

    What makes the Oilers staff think they know more? That’s the question that should be asked!
    Instead the talk is how lucky they were that JP fell to them……..There might be a reason for that.

    Also, there is very little evidence JP is going to be a producer at the NHL level, meanwhile Sergachev and Keller are..

    Why would they draft an elite skilled center when they have 3 center at a combined 26 million dollars? Jeez, I’m not sure why anyone would do that………

    That, and having a center that can play wing, and a winger that can play center has been pretty much beaten by everyone in the hockey community…

  94. Cassandra says:

    frjohnk: Better way to compare would be to look at all the moves both made.

    I agree that Chia is better.

    This is crazy. I know you well enough to take you seriously, but there is no way Chiarelli is better. MacTavish made some good moves along with the bad, with Chiarelli there is not simply bad, but potentially franchise destroying.

    That said, the Athletic has the Oilers with a 20% chance of making the playoffs. Personally, I think that undersells their chances.

  95. who says:

    Jethro Tull: Only in the hockey sense….sense! But he’s showing improvement. Couple of decent games, but we need the JP 3yrs from now. Just as we need the Nurse 2yrs from now.

    Or we could just wait 2 years and make do in the meantime.

  96. Side says:

    OmJo: Some of that was in jest, some of it was trying to point out just because TMac was a bad GM doesn’t mean Chiarelli isn’t, too.

    Also, I was looking forward to Jokinen. Bought into the hype. That said, the Pouliot buyout to make room for him was an unfortunate move.

    I feel like Chiarelli is closer to being a “good” GM than he is being as bad as MacT.

    But who knows, that could change.. especially if he makes a bad desperation move at the deadline.

  97. Bobcaygeon says:

    russ99:
    MacTavish caved on Gagner’s contract, anointed Schultz as a Norris winner, hired Eakins, ruined Yak, wasted Petry.

    All Chiarelli ever did is send the beloved Austins away, to try and make the hockey club better.

    Not even close.

    Dubnyk, he killed Dubnyk..

  98. Lowetide says:

    If you comment trash or negative talk or lash out at people in public on this blog, I have to ban you. That’s a fact.

  99. JimmyV1965 says:

    digger50: Any good GM in any business should be training and mentoring someone to replace themselves. Who might that be in the Oilers Org?

    I hadn’t thought about this. WTF. There should be a succession plan. That’s on the people above him. This does not look good at all.

  100. Dicky94 says:

    JimmyV1965,

    A guy I would consider is Kelly McCrimmon. I think he would be a good GM in time. Always found some nice talent for the Wheat Kings.

  101. fishman says:

    Would like to be a fly on the wall at OEG management meeting. As long as the building is full does anyone really care? Is Nicholson pulling his hair out? Is Chiarelli on the hot seat? Are knives being sharpened? Does Katz make his feelings known? Can’t believe we are where we are once again. Would like to remain optimistic but guessing we are a loss or two away from being a lottery team and face months of angry posters. How the hell did we get here again!!!

    Edmonton fans deserve better. Did Maas not realize pot hasn’t been legalized yet??????

    Oh to be an Edmonton pro sports fan.

  102. Jethro Tull says:

    russ99: No, but there’s a real disconnect between Peter’s moves and Todd’s utilization.

    This is true…..

  103. --hudson-- says:

    Bobcaygeon: When a Finnish national executive passes on a Finnish player you don’t find that at all interesting? Who would have more insight into the Finnish player than a Finnish national team executive???

    Furthermore, during the draft it came out that Kekalainen wasn’t going to drat JP regardless…This is another massive sign.

    What makes the Oilers staff think they know more?That’s the question that should be asked!
    Instead the talk ishow lucky they were that JP fell to them……..There might be a reason for that.

    Also, there is very little evidence JP is going to be a producer at the NHL level, meanwhile Sergachev and Keller are..

    Why would they draft an elite skilled center when they have 3 center at a combined 26 million dollars? Jeez, I’m not sure why anyone would do that………

    That,and having a center that can play wing, and a winger that can play center has been pretty much beaten by everyone in the hockey community…

    Interesting thing is the guy Columbus drafted is also a big, slow developing forward. If you have an Athletic membership there’s an interesting article today on Keller with quotes from all the GMs who passed on him. Kekalainen left the decision to his scouts if we are to believe his quote.

    LT says wait 5 years which seems the right thing to do before declaring a winner. There was a time when Samsonov looked to be a better player than Joe Thornton as well.

    I remember Chia running up to the stage for the pick, while MacT dragged behind. I wonder what MacT was thinking.

  104. flea says:

    PC has brought in better UFAs than MacT did. Their pro scouting seems a little better, maybe not perfect but better. You can hate on Lucic/Russell but they are better than the atrocious UFAs brought in by MacT . Seriously awful. In fact, the pro scouting and poor drafting is why we have McDavid and aren’t still cheering for Taylor Hall.

    If MacT brought Hall a veteran center when he was drafted (which is what he should’ve done), we’d be talking about a different team right now, likely one that included Taylor. Instead they ran him with Horcs in his first year. Then the Oilers simply fell into RNH the next year, and said – good enough – running those two together as a top line. TH desperately needed a vet center to play with that was better than Horcoff, but the Oilers could never find that player.

    Now – we have McDavid – and I actually still like the Lucic signing even though it hasn’t totally worked out. That is the type of player a young guy like McDavid needs in the dressing room, someone to calm everyone down, someone who has been there before, and performed at a high level. You can’t just run a lineup of high picks, you need a variety of players including veterans. If you’re going to sign (and inevitably overpay) a veteran, why not overpay a true NHL star, even if you know the performance might not be there as they age.

    It’s better than MacT’s budget veteran strategy, which produces true dead cap on completely useless players like Fayne, Nikitin, etc.

  105. stush18 says:

    Bobcaygeon,

    I’m sorry, but like Cassandra always says, you’re appealing to authority.

    The oilers drafting since chiarelli took over has been impeccable imo.

    Jones, bear, Safin, maksimov, Yamamoto, Wells, skinner, samorukov, berglund, and kemp are all “steals” at the draft, with most players drafted being very reasonable bets.

    It’s 100% hindsight to say we should have drafted someone else because a general manager of the same nationality didn’t like him.

    Also, sergachev looks impressive, but playing with Stamkos and kucherov doesn’t hurt.

    And more to this point, we already have a strong defensive prospect group, and we’re lacking forwards.

    It is 100% hindsight or just plain bias or trolling to say the oilers screwed up, when JP is still one of the youngest players in the NHL, and is just starting his second season of North American hockey.

    This also doesn’t mean I don’t like Keller or sergachev. I do.

    I just don’t see how you can call JP an obvious mistake when the one thing everyone can agree on is that chiarelli has done an very good job of drafting players since he got here.

  106. OmJo says:

    Cassandra: This is crazy.I know you well enough to take you seriously, but there is no way Chiarelli is better.MacTavish made some good moves along with the bad, with Chiarelli there is not simply bad, but potentially franchise destroying.

    That said, the Athletic has the Oilers with a 20% chance of making the playoffs.Personally, I think that undersells their chances.

    This website is awesome!

    http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/GM_list

    IMO, MacTs best moves were Paajarvi for Perron, and then Perron for a 1st (the 1st round pick Chiarelli gave up to get Reinhart, heh).

    His worst was hands down the Petry trade.

    For Chiarelli, his best was Talbot for picks, followed closely by Maroon. his worst was hands down the Rienhart trade.

    MacTavish didn’t really make many big trades in his time as GM. So he didn’t lose trades as badly as Chiarelli, but he also didn’t try to make them. The thing is the worst thing MacT did in his time here as GM wasn’t a move, but the absence of a move: refusing to fire Dallas Eakins.

    That non-move, IMO, did more damage to the team than anything Chiarelli has done so far, because it screwed the players up mentally (RIP Yakupov, Dubnyk, Perron, Gagner, Schultz – am I forgetting anybody?) and it took years to undo the damage from the Eakins Era.

    It created the “culture” Chiarelli allegedly tried to change by trading Hall and Eberle for pennies on the dollar.

  107. --hudson-- says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t see that narrative coming to fruition but you never know.

    If MacT was re-hired as GM of the Oilers, I could imagine the vitrol, it would be like nothing we’ve seen before.

    I would still 100% cheer for this team just as much as I do now.

    I can’t imagine an organizational move that would made me “done with the team”.

    Just imagine the MacT rehiring press conference! The first one before this all happened was bad enough.

  108. stush18 says:

    Side: Why are people ragging on Chiarelli for Jokinen? He was a good, safe bet and I don’t recall a lot of people complaining about the signing.

    Also, Russell, Strome, Lucic and Gryba are better players now than Ference, Nikitin and Fayne were when they signed with the Oilers.

    People comparing MacT to Chiarelli are reaching, here.

    Agreed.

    People throw in lucic because they can’t seperate the Hall trade from the lucic signing.

    Lucic matched his career points/game last year. He’s producing at even strength again this year, like he has for his entire career.

    He’s a first line LW, doesn’t matter how you look at it.

    Also, jokinen was a good bet. I don’t know why people were upset.

    It’s easy to always be upset I guess.

  109. OmJo says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    If McDavid is physically able to perform and you sit him, that would be like, I dunno, kicking a field goal at the end of a game that you trail by a touchdown or something similarly unthinkable

    Ha! Fair enough, but that was a low blow lol.

    We have 4 games in 6 days, so there won’t be much time for McDavid to recover. My idea here is he rests Tueaday (or Wednesday) and plays 3 of the 4 games at closer to 100%.

    We’ll see what happens. Won’t be surprised if he scored a hat trick tomorrow just to make me look bad lol.

  110. stush18 says:

    Cassandra: This is crazy.I know you well enough to take you seriously, but there is no way Chiarelli is better.MacTavish made some good moves along with the bad, with Chiarelli there is not simply bad, but potentially franchise destroying.

    That said, the Athletic has the Oilers with a 20% chance of making the playoffs.Personally, I think that undersells their chances.

    I’m curious, how do you feel about how he oilers are playing?

    I know you take analytics serious, so I’m wondering how you can reconcile the oilers dominating possession, scoring, danger, and basically every metric, with the oilers moves?

    I think it’s obvious the oilers need another scoring forward, but slepy has been hurt all year, and to a lesser extent, so has cagguilla. Stromes been carrying around an anchor in pakarinen.

    Just wondering if you believe the oilers are going to have the hard regression they are due for, or that these analytics are actually bogus?

  111. OmJo says:

    stush18: People throw in lucic because they can’t seperate the Hall trade from the lucic signing.

    That’s unfair.

    So much of the narrative behind the Hall trade was it wouldn’t have happened if Lucic wasn’t signing here and he was de facto part of the trade. That’s why Chiarelli didn’t get more for Hall.

  112. OmJo says:

    digger50: Any good GM in any business should be training and mentoring someone to replace themselves. Who might that be in the Oilers Org?

    Mark Messier?

    Didn’t Slather take him under his wing in NY for a few years?

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    Coach says Slep is out for tomorrow against the Blues but will be re-evaluated prior to the game on Wed against the Red Wings.

  114. Material pocession says:

    OmJo:

    It created the “culture” Chiarelli allegedly tried to change by trading Hall and Eberle for pennies on the dollar.

    Pennies on the dollar? Adam Larsson is pretty valuable, actually. Strome is meh but Eberle’s performance was declining and he makes $6M/year.

    Your hyperbole is awesome.

  115. Material pocession says:

    OmJo: That’s unfair.

    So much of the narrative behind the Hall trade was it wouldn’t have happened if Lucic wasn’t signing here and he was de facto part of the trade. That’s why Chiarelli didn’t get more for Hall.

    That’s not a narrative that I have heard. Chia left value on the table intentionally because he had Lucic locked up? That doesn’t make sense so therefore is likely not true. Chia mentioned drafting JP gave him more reason to move Hall.

  116. stush18 says:

    RMGS: I get that, and I’ve never been one to reduce these situations to regression.But if one values these numbers, then she/he needs to give credit where it’s due.It’s entirely reasonable to suggest that, while far from perfect, Chiarelli and McLellan have built a very good team that’s mired in terrible luck.

    +1

    It’s one or the other. We can’t call out these moves and ignore the oilers dominating play. Either chiarelli made very poor bets and all the signs pointing to the oilers playing with poor luck should be ignored, or chiarelli has made some very good bets and this team is due to climb the standings.

  117. Material pocession says:

    stush18: I’m curious, how do you feel about how he oilers are playing?

    I know you take analytics serious, so I’m wondering how you can reconcile the oilers dominating possession, scoring, danger, and basically every metric, with the oilers moves?

    I think it’s obvious the oilers need another scoring forward, but slepy has been hurt all year, and to a lesser extent, so has cagguilla. Stromes been carrying around an anchor in pakarinen.

    Just wondering if you believe the oilers are going to have the hard regression they are due for, or that these analytics are actually bogus?

    The answer is: When analytics favor your argument then you use them. When they don’t favor your narrative, then you conveniently ignore them.

  118. jtblack says:

    russ99,

    Oilers have trailed at the 10-minute mark of the first period in 9 of their 20 games. 

    +1. Not sure how they talk all summer and then look to be on different pages BRUTES

    EDIT: WRONG PASTE. Just agreeing PC and TMac dont seem to be on same page

  119. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – The Strome vs Ebs needs to be played out. For 14 points, @ $6MM on first line thats $418K/point

    – Strome, he’s $312K/point

    – You can argue which one you’d rather have but dollar for point, Strome is more efficient @ $2.5MM.

    – Strome for Ebs and $3.5MM wasn’t all-time garbage, it just isn’t…

  120. Material pocession says:

    flea:

    It’s better than MacT’s budget veteran strategy, which produces true dead cap on completely useless players like Fayne, Nikitin, etc.

    What about Grebeshkov? Cut from his KHL team right before MacT brought him back for a second tour of duty. Chia’s biggest defensive blunder was signing Russell to a bad UFA contract. Give me Chia’s mistakes any day over MacT’s.

  121. stush18 says:

    OmJo: That’s unfair.

    So much of the narrative behind the Hall trade was it wouldn’t have happened if Lucic wasn’t signing here and he was de facto part of the trade. That’s why Chiarelli didn’t get more for Hall.

    But why does everyone throw lucic into the “poor” signing category?

    He is consistent. He’s physical.

    We’re ignoring his stats and carrying a narrative, when in reality lucic has performed very well (again) this year, and likely will for at least a few more. This isn’t maroon, who decided to lose the gut and get into shape this year. Lucic has always kept himself in excellent physical condition. He even lost weight to adapt to the faster hockey game.

    So I don’t see how you could consider lucic a poor signing. He hasn’t been.

    You can disagree with the Hall trade. But signing lucic to be your first line LW is a good move.

  122. jtblack says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    MCD – $128k/ Pt …… CHEAP!!!! For 1 more yr

  123. frjohnk says:

    Cassandra: Chiarelli there is not simply bad, but potentially franchise destroying.

    I think MacT was not a good GM.

    I also think you could be right with your comment.

    Here is another slant on the Hall trade. If MacT is fired but someone else is hired other than Chia, its possible the Oilers still go after Hamilton and instead of Reinhart we end up with Hamilton. With Hamilton we don’t need to sacrifice Hall for a Dman. Hall and Hamilton is a whole lot better than Larsson and Reinhart. Getting Chia may have cost us that.

    Question is, would that “other GM” have also put us into the area of cap hell starting next year?

  124. Material pocession says:

    texmex:
    russ99,

    Sit McDavid in a must win game?

    We might only have a 5% chance of making the playoffs this season (or whatever it is), but that 5% goes to 0% if you sit Connor.

    I’d take Connor at 50% over anybody else on the Oilers roster.

    Just my 2 cents.

    No. If he’s sick, he might make a turnover. They would be better off running Mark Letestu in the 1C position until Connor is in perfect health. He’s better at faceoffs, too.

  125. stush18 says:

    Material pocession: The answer is:When analytics favor your argument then you use them.When they don’t favor your narrative, then you conveniently ignore them.

    Yup.

    There are two moves I disliked from chiarelli.

    1) Buying out pouliot.

    This move made zero sense, and the only thing I can think of is the team (players and staff) has moved on and wanted to part ways. I think it’s obvious they didn’t have anyways interested in him at that salary. But I disagree with the buyout. I think it was a year early.

    2) Not finding a replacement for sekera.

    I think the arguement is chiarelli thought the team could stay afloat until sekera returned. They are 6 points back, with Talbot playing awful. Was it a bad bet? We’ll see, but we might have lost the season because of this. This is the thing I am most upset about

  126. jtblack says:

    While some may have questions about McD’s performance I will put my hand up and say that he is ALL WORLD, ALL THE TIME in my books He single handly makes the games entertaining. He’s trying to play even when it feeling well. He’s a Gamer Love him as our Captain for next 8 years and beyond.

    He may just blow thru 120 Points as the sched softens up in Jan / Feb AND the PDO winds shift.

    If Maroon Yammy and Drai could cash half the empty nets he would 35 points by now.

    #ConnorRules

  127. stush18 says:

    frjohnk,

    Did we have a list of people available that summer to be hired as GM?

    Seems revisionist but at the time most were happy with the signing? Or did we want to keep macT around and test drive him for another year?

  128. stush18 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – The Strome vs Ebs needs to be played out.For 14 points, @ $6MM on first line thats $418K/point

    – Strome, he’s $312K/point

    – You can argue which one you’d rather have but dollar for point, Strome is more efficient @ $2.5MM.

    – Strome for Ebs and $3.5MM wasn’t all-time garbage, it just isn’t…

    I agree. Plus it adds some versatility to the lineup.

  129. dustrock says:

    I’d have a lot more time for the criticism of the Oilers picking Puljujarvi if he wasn’t the consensus #3 after Matthews and Laine.

    ISS and Button had him #2 over Laine.

    https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/30/11541984/average-rankings-of-the-top-12-prospects-heading-into-the-2016-nhl-draft-scouting-profiles-ranks

    It’s the same problem with picking Yakupov. Yeah, some other players look way, way, way better right now, don’t pick a winger, blah blah blah, except everybody had Yakupov #1.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/scouting-services-dont-agree-on-a-whole-lot-but-they-all-rank-nail-yakupov-1

  130. StixMalone says:

    Keep hearing and reading rumors ( Stupid ones ) about Price to Oilers . Who comes up with this crap? Then Pacioretty name comes up too? Man when things are bad it’s not only the snow that flies. Now watch these trades come true….#WoodShed

  131. frjohnk says:

    stush18: Did we have a list of people available that summer to be hired as GM?

    I’m sure there was

  132. who says:

    stush18: But why does everyone throw lucic into the “poor” signing category?

    He is consistent. He’s physical.

    We’re ignoring his stats and carrying a narrative, when in reality lucic has performed very well (again) this year, and likely will for at least a few more. This isn’t maroon, who decided to lose the gut and get into shape this year. Lucic has always kept himself in excellent physical condition. He even lost weight to adapt to the faster hockey game.

    So I don’t see how you could consider lucic a poor signing. He hasn’t been.

    You can disagree with the Hall trade. But signing lucic to be your first line LW is a good move.

    Do you really believe Lucic is a first line winger?
    I had no problem with the Hall trade but trying to fill that hole with Lucic and that contract is Chia’s second biggest mistake, so far.

  133. Material pocession says:

    stush18: Yup.

    There are two moves I disliked from chiarelli.

    1) Buying out pouliot.

    This move made zero sense, and the only thing I can think of is the team (players and staff) has moved on and wanted to part ways. I think it’s obvious they didn’t have anyways interested in him at that salary. But I disagree with the buyout. I think it was a year early.

    2) Not finding a replacement for sekera.

    I think the arguement is chiarelli thought the team could stay afloat until sekera returned. They are 6 points back, with Talbot playing awful. Was it a bad bet? We’ll see, but we might have lost the season because of this. This is the thing I am most upset about

    I agree with number 1. The buyout was a year too early. They could have used him this year for PK (and offensive zone penalties). They didn’t use the cap space anyway.

    I’m not as convinced on number 2. Yes, I would always prefer an upgrade on any position but the cost of acquisition would have been high. And I’m not sure if it would have made a massive difference in the team’s position in the standings. If Talbot was playing better, the team would be right in the mix for a playoff position right now.

  134. Lowetide says:

    McDavid’s contract will be a bargain next year. This year’s it’s theft by Oilers.

  135. GMB3 says:

    stush18: Sergachev shoots left, and was the oilers choice. They had a deal in place to move back until JP fell.I seriously anyone can be unhappy with grabbing JP right now, let alone at the time of the draft.Unless you enjoy using hindsight to justify moves the oilers could have made.

    Also why would the oilers draft Keller when they have mcdavid, draisaitl and nuge up the middle right now?

    I think everyone needs to cool it on counting out JP. It’s well documented these big her players take longer to round into form.

    I agree with the first point but good lord, you do know centers can play wing? Nearly every forward in the NHL played centre for most of their youth. I agree JP was the consensus pick at 3, and this might be a sign that scouts rely far too much on the WJHC. Quite possible JP’s #’s got zoomed by playing with Aho and Laine.

  136. GMB3 says:

    Lowetide:
    McDavid’s contract will be a bargain next year. This year’s it’s theft by Oilers.

    How can anyone’s contract be a bargain at 12.5 million dollars?

  137. Lowetide says:

    GMB3: How can anyone’s contract be a bargain at 12.5 million dollars?

    It isn’t easy, you have to be Connor McDavid.

  138. OmJo says:

    Material pocession: That’s not a narrative that I have heard.Chia left value on the table intentionally because he had Lucic locked up?That doesn’t make sense so therefore is likely not true.Chia mentioned drafting JP gave him more reason to move Hall.

    That’s how people, including many media folks, defended the Hall trade, not Chiarelli. Even today people still mock the “Hall for Larsson + Lucic” narrative by throwing in random players and even a beach in the River Valley lol.

    It was a thing, not so much anymore because Lucic didn’t have a very good season.

  139. OmJo says:

    GMB3: How can anyone’s contract be a bargain at 12.5 million dollars?

    Because it’s under league maximum and offer sheets are a thing.

    Lowetide: It isn’t easy, you have to be Connor McDavid.

    This too.

  140. OmJo says:

    stush18: But signing lucic to be your first line LW is a good move

    Then why isn’t he our first line LW? 🤔

  141. TheVengeFulOne says:

    Lowetide:
    If you comment trash or negative talk or lash out atpeople in public on this blog, I have to ban you. That’s a fact.

    Fuck you sellout. I did nothing wrong. I still can’t believe you think you are worth more than a newspaper or magazine, which people don’t buy anymore anyway. The community here has died like at ON, and tbh the Oilers aren’t worth my time anymore.

    Good luck sir.

  142. Bag of Pucks says:

    LT nailed it when he said the Hall trade fractured this fanbase.

    For some, that trade will always be an unpardonable sin and so all roads in evaluating Chiarelli’s work lead back to that move.

    The common thread in much of the critiques imo (Hall for Larsson, Eberle for Strome, Jultz for a 3rd) is that Chiarelli should’ve gotten more in return. The key assumption here of course is that the market was wililng to offer more. And that, we’ll never know.

    I do know that Oiler fans have a tendency to overrate their own players and thus their market value league wide, and I think that colours our perceptions of the GMs work from Sather on down.

  143. Bag of Pucks says:

    TheVengeFulOne: Fuck you sellout. I did nothing wrong. Done with your site. It’s shit now anyway. I still can’t believe you think you are worth more than a newspaper or magazine, which people don’t buy anymore anyway. The community here has died like at ON, and tbh the Oilers aren’t worth my time anymore.

    Good luck sir.

    Waste. Of. Skin.

  144. OmJo says:

    dustrock:
    I’d have a lot more time for the criticism of the Oilers picking Puljujarvi if he wasn’t the consensus #3 after Matthews and Laine.

    ISS and Button had him #2 over Laine.

    https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/30/11541984/average-rankings-of-the-top-12-prospects-heading-into-the-2016-nhl-draft-scouting-profiles-ranks

    It’s the same problem with picking Yakupov.Yeah, some other players look way, way, way better right now, don’t pick a winger, blah blah blah, except everybody had Yakupov #1.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/scouting-services-dont-agree-on-a-whole-lot-but-they-all-rank-nail-yakupov-1

    Yup, that’s essentially one reason I’m not hating on Chiarelli for the Puljujarvi pick, just like I didn’t bash on the Yakupov pick. These players were concensus top picks for a reason.

    Both were rushed into the NHL. One had an incompetent coach who wanted him to be Patrice Bergeron in his second pro year. The other has an incompetent general manager who wanted him to be Taylor Hall lite in his first pro year, and Jordan Eberle lite in his second (or so I’m assuming).

    JP will be alright. We just need to be patient with him. He has all the tools, as he gets older and more experienced at the North American game he’ll get better. Let’s not give up on a 19 year old just because his peers are doing better right off the bat.

  145. Cassandra says:

    frjohnk: I think MacT was not a good GM.

    I also think you could be right with your comment.

    Here is another slant on the Hall trade.If MacT is fired but someone else is hired other than Chia, its possible the Oilers still go after Hamilton and instead of Reinhart we end up with Hamilton.With Hamilton we don’t need to sacrifice Hall for a Dman.Hall and Hamilton is a whole lot better than Larsson and Reinhart.Getting Chia may have cost us that.

    Question is, would that “other GM” have also put us into the area of cap hell starting next year?

    I agree MacTavish was not a good GM. He didn’t find enough value in the free agent market, and while the Perron deal was nice, he didn’t hit any homeruns with trades, and in this game if you aren’t hitting home runs you are losing.

    I maintain, however, that his teams were killed by goaltending. That said, I think it is fair to say that he didn’t do enough to build a winning team.

    What he did do, is avoid putting his successor in a bad position. With McDavid, and the existing talent (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Klefbom, Draisatl, Nurse, the 2015 picks) Chiarelli had the easiest job in sports and he immediately starting tearing it down with the Reinhart deal.

    He turned Hall, Eberle, and the picks, into Larsson, and Strome. And since cap space matters, add Lucic if you like. Well, Strome may not be back next year, and Lucic is untradeable contract. That’s the kind of thing that can ruin a franchise.

    Put the question another way. If Chiarelli were to be fired tomorrow, would his successor have an easier or harder time, than Chiarelli had.

    The answer here is clear. From where we are today, hypothetical new GM has very few options. The team has no future cap space and no excess talent to trade. They can’t rebuild and they can’t add talent. The only thing to do is to let it ride and hope that Puljujarvi and Benson and whomever become something they’ve shown no indication they will be.

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    McDavid’s contract will be a bargain next year. This year’s it’s theft by Oilers.

    I’m hopefull it will be a bargain and it should be and will likely be.

    Would you consider it a bargain if his performance next year matches what his performance this year to date?

  147. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: …..but, but, but, PunjabiOil has spoken on the matter…..

    All he did was provide evidence about why he thinks JP may not be the offensive player we thought he was.

  148. frjohnk says:

    TheVengeFulOne,

    Hugs Pumpkin

  149. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’m hopefull it will be a bargain and it should be and will likely be.

    Would you consider it a bargain if his performance next year matches what his performance this year to date?

    Yes.

  150. Cassandra says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT nailed it when he said the Hall trade fractured this fanbase.

    For some, that trade will always be an unpardonable sin and so all roads in evaluating Chiarelli’s work lead back to that move.

    The common thread in much of the critiques imo (Hall for Larsson, Eberle for Strome, Jultz for a 3rd) is that Chiarelli should’ve gotten more in return. The key assumption here of course is that the market was wililng to offer more. And that, we’ll never know.

    I do know that Oiler fans have a tendency to overrate their own players and thus their market value league wide, and I think that colours our perceptions of the GMs work from Sather on down.

    Matt Duchene, with two fewer years on his contract, was just traded for an enormous return. Duchene has never been as good as Hall and was traded after a season where he had 41 points and was -34.

    The return for Hall remains, to this day, incomprehensible.

  151. Chachi says:

    Thought I’d pop in and read up on the comments. Woof. Lowetide, you are a saint.

  152. GMB3 says:

    I’m not sure if you are Peter Chiarelli, David Staples, or Kurt Leavins. Fill me in!

  153. Side says:

    TheVengeFulOne:

    No one cares and no one will miss you.

  154. Cassandra says:

    stush18: I’m curious, how do you feel about how he oilers are playing?

    I know you take analytics serious, so I’m wondering how you can reconcile the oilers dominating possession, scoring, danger, and basically every metric, with the oilers moves?

    I think it’s obvious the oilers need another scoring forward, but slepy has been hurt all year, and to a lesser extent, so has cagguilla. Stromes been carrying around an anchor in pakarinen.

    Just wondering if you believe the oilers are going to have the hard regression they are due for, or that these analytics are actually bogus?

    I think they are playing fine, brought down by underperforming/bad luck from McDavid, Draisatl, and Talbot.

    The problem is that a playoff team isn’t good enough. You have Connor McDavid on an ELC. You started with a massive headstart on the league. This team should be the leading the league in goals instead of last (or wherever they are).

    But instead, Chiarelli went out of his way to assemble a team without scoring depth, obviously thinking that with McDavid and Draisatl the scoring box was checked. This is what comes from building a team from a checklist instead of adding talent everywhere you can.

    Two scoring lines are better than one. Three scoring lines are better than two. Four scoring lines are better than three.

  155. PunjabiOil says:

    …..but, but, but, PunjabiOil has spoken on the matter…..

    I never said it with absolutes, and as a fan of the team, I hope I’m wrong.

    It should be noted at one point, Stauffer was throwing out Yakupov for Larsson or Yakupov for Huberdeau. My belief is Puljujarvi’s fair market value might be higher than his projected internal value for the team – but a year or two from now, this value may erode. There will have to come a point in time where management will have to ask themselves the tough questions about his ceiling and whether it’s worth moving on to. The Oilers don’t necessarily have a large dose of tradeable assets to improve the team immediately.

    Re-posting from the last thread:

    With evidence I mean:
    1. Point totals in Finland which significantly lagged his peers (Barkov, Rantanen)
    2. AHL numbers aside from playing time with Anton Landers and some success on the powerplay
    3. IIHF Worlds – pointless and a healthy scratch
    4. AHL numbers this season
    5. NHL numbers in current and past season

    I get it – he can skate, he’s big – but only potential, draft pedigree, and labels suggest he’s going to be an offensive threat – nothing in the way of tangible results to date.

    I’d like to be wrong, but I’m going to trust the numbers to date thus far. For that reason, I’m not averse to moving him for the right deal.

  156. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Yes.

    Fair enough – I wouldn’t though.

    That contract provides the highest cap hit in the NHL by a material amount – almost $2M more than the 2nd highest cap hit.

    In my opinion, in order for the contract to be adequate value, the player needs to be the best player in the league that year and by a quite a bit.

    Now, I think that McDavid is the best player in the NHL, I truly do, but I don’t think he’s been the best player in the league this year and, if that contract was in force right now, I would posit that he’s under-performing it vis-a-via the other cap hits in the league.

    With that said, he could very well be the best player in the league this year – there are miles to go before the end of the regular season. He could still will this team in to the playoff – he’s that good.

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    .

  158. GMB3 says:

    russ99: All of the above, except for Talbot is primarily due to coaching utilization. And you can make a case for Talbot too considering how rare it is for LB to get a start.

    Please tell me how Kris Russell is struggling because of how the coach is utilizing him. Did you have any experience playing or coaching hockey? Because you know more about coaching than anyone Ive ever seen

  159. who says:

    Cassandra: I agree MacTavish was not a good GM.He didn’t find enough value in the free agent market, and while the Perron deal was nice, he didn’t hit any homeruns with trades, and in this game if you aren’t hitting home runs you are losing.

    I maintain, however, that his teams were killed by goaltending.That said, I think it is fair to say that he didn’t do enough to build a winning team.

    What he did do, is avoid putting his successor in a bad position.With McDavid, and the existing talent (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Klefbom, Draisatl, Nurse, the 2015 picks) Chiarelli had the easiest job in sports and he immediately starting tearing it down with the Reinhart deal.

    He turned Hall, Eberle, and the picks, into Larsson, and Strome.And since cap space matters, add Lucic if you like.Well, Strome may not be back next year, and Lucic is untradeable contract.That’s the kind of thing that can ruin a franchise.

    Put the question another way.If Chiarelli were to be fired tomorrow, would his successor have an easier or harder time, than Chiarelli had.

    The answer here is clear.From where we are today, hypothetical new GM has very few options.The team has no future cap space and no excess talent to trade.They can’t rebuild and they can’t add talent.The only thing to do is to let it ride and hope that Puljujarvi and Benson and whomever become something they’ve shown no indication they will be.

    I understand your disdain for Chia but you keep lumping his bad moves in with his okay ones when you are trying to make your point.
    Think how good this roster would look if they hadn’t made the Reinhart deal and hadn’t signed Lucic. Those were his two big boo boos.
    We traded Hall for Larsson and 2 mil of cap space plus 1 more year of team control. Both players playing well for new teams. Good deal for both sides in my book.
    We traded Eberle for Strome and 3.5 mil of cap space and a little more roster flexibility. No, Strome is not going to replace Eberles offense. But people who are saying Eberle would make the difference between winning and losing this year were not watching him last year. He was not a difference maker anymore.

  160. OmJo says:

    Cassandra,

    Did the Penguins win any cups in Crosby and Malkins’ ELCs?

    I get why it’s a good thing to try and win a cup in their ELC years, but I still think there’s quite a big window left after this year. Granted those two bad contracts on 2LW and 3LD might cripple our chances a bit in a way the Penguins haven’t had to deal with, as far as I know at least.

  161. Bag of Pucks says:

    Cassandra: Matt Duchene, with two fewer years onhis contract, was just traded for an enormous return.Duchene has never been as good as Hall and was traded after a season where he had 41 points and was -34.

    The return for Hall remains, to this day, incomprehensible.

    Sakic got nothing but futures for Duchene. Not a proven player in the bunch. Chiarelli got the first D taken in the 2011 draft, who was already established as a player in the league. One trending in a positive direction on QoC metrics and on a value contract.

    The hyperbole really isn’t helping your argument.

  162. OriginalPouzar says:

    Anyways, so, the Oilers.

    Slepyshev is skating with the team – he won’t play tomorrow but could be back for Wed (although I would guess Friday at the earliest).

    McDavid didn’t practice today but I’m assuming he’ll play tomorrow and the lines look to be the same as they were against DAL.

    I look for Cammalleri and Strome to start finding some chemistry.

  163. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Along with a statement on what others should think about his offensive potential.The use of “we” language was prominent.

    It was objective to my eye and deserves room for consideration. He provided solid evidence that

  164. GMB3 says:

    Side: Ummm… Drai a 6’4” Yakupov?

    Darnell being only “all potential”?

    lol what?

    JP is who he’s comparing to Yakupov. Agreed on Drai being an overpaid RW. People still bitch about RNH at 6 million. They are not going to be happy with Drai in a few years

  165. texmex says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Actually, Sakic acquired Turris, the 28th overall pick from the 2017 draft, a 2018 1st round pick and a 2018 3rd round pick from Ottawa for Duchene.

    Sakic flipped Turris to Nashville. Granted the trade probably doesn’t happen if Nashville isn’t involved.

    For the record, I didn’t hate the Hall trade, though I thought they would have gotten a 2nd rounder in addition to Larsson.

  166. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Kyle Turris was part of the trade.

    Duchene for Turris, Hammond, Bowers, 1st round pick, 3rd round pick.

    Turris is a proven player.

    Then he flipped Turris for Kamenev, Girard, and a 2nd round pick.

    That’s how it’s broken down on HockeyDB. Turris is the proven player he got for Duchene. He just didn’t keep him.

  167. Cassandra says:

    Bag of Pucks: Sakic got nothing but futures for Duchene. Not a proven player in the bunch. Chiarelli got the first D taken in the 2011 draft, who was already established as a player in the league. One trending in a positive direction on QoC metrics and on a value contract.

    The hyperbole really isn’t helping your argument.

    It isn’t hyperbole to state what is right in front of your eyes.

    The gap in value that Sakic received compared to Chiarelli is as big as the universe.

    Rational conversation depends upon reasonable people sharing a common language upon what counts as reasonable. This is the real fracture.

  168. OmJo says:

    texmex:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Actually, Sakic acquired Turris, the 28th overall pick from the 2017 draft, a 2018 1st round pick and a 2018 3rd round pick from Ottawa for Duchene.

    Sakic flipped Turris to Nashville. Granted the trade probably doesn’t happen if Nashville isn’t involved.

    For the record, I didn’t hate the Hall trade, though I thought they would have gotten a 2nd rounder in addition to Larsson.

    I really need to start typing faster on my phone lol..

  169. Lloyd B. says:

    OriginalPouzar: Fair enough – I wouldn’t though.

    Now, I think that McDavid is the best player in the NHL, I truly do, but I don’t think he’s been the best player in the league this year and, if that contract was in force right now, I would posit that he’s under-performing it vis-a-via the other cap hits in the league.

    C’mon OP. McDavid is playing for less than $4 M this year.

    Not bad for the best player in the league as you state. Perhaps not so far this year.

    You can posit all you like about McDavid under-performing next years contract, but the fact remains that contract is not in force right now.

    And yes I know you said IF. You know what else IF gets you…an uncle instead of an aunt.

  170. Connoreah says:

    Dear Cassandra, and others in the community who place great value on the fancy stats, and also believe Chiarelli is “the worst”, I am genuinely curious and/or confused…

    Based on what I’ve read (and granted I’m not very savvy when it comes to the fancies), the Oilers are top 5 in the league this year. This according to possession metrics, fenwick, scoring chances generated, etc. etc.

    Why do you dismiss these measures this year? Hasn’t the team Chiarelli put together demonstrated – by the measures that you value most – that it is a cup contender, despite some terrible luck and poor record to start the year?

    I find this discrepancy both confusing and, to be frank, a sign that the biases typically associated with the eye test may be as bad, or worse, in the analytics crowd. Any insights you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

  171. Material pocession says:

    OmJo:
    Cassandra,

    Did the Penguins win any cups in Crosby and Malkins’ ELCs?

    Yes, they did.

  172. Jethro Tull says:

    Cassandra: It isn’t hyperbole to state what is right in front of your eyes.

    The gap in value that Sakic received compared to Chiarelli is as big as the universe.

    Rational conversation depends upon reasonable people sharing a common language upon what counts as reasonable.This is the real fracture.

    As big as the ever expanding universe, eh? And yet still no hyperbole.

  173. blainer says:

    IMO I think JP needs to get back to the A. He is not ready and at times has really not looked good.

    Get him back to the minors and let him work on his game and language issues there and make him hungrier for the big leagues. He is young and there is lots of time to get this player on track but keeping him up now is the wrong move and could actually stall his development.

    Thing is … who replaces him.. Rattie? We still need more speed and not sure who has that on the farm.

  174. Jethro Tull says:

    Cassandra,

    Totally agree on your “adding talent whenever you can” stance though. I thought we were a ‘get good playes, keep good players’ blog?

  175. Material pocession says:

    Cassandra: It isn’t hyperbole to state what is right in front of your eyes.

    The gap in value that Sakic received compared to Chiarelli is as big as the universe.

    Not hyperbole at all……..

  176. stush18 says:

    Material pocession: I agree with number 1.The buyout was a year too early.They could have used him this year for PK (and offensive zone penalties).They didn’t use the cap space anyway.

    I’m not as convinced on number 2.Yes, I would always prefer an upgrade on any position but the cost of acquisition would have been high.And I’m not sure if it would have made a massive difference in the team’s position in the standings.If Talbot was playing better, the team would be right in the mix for a playoff position right now.

    I agree. And chiarelli was in on franson. The player chose differently.

    I just think a lot of our time troubles can be fixed with a healthy sekera

  177. Melvis says:

    Lowetide,

    Damn. A mindreader too. Now I’ve gotta upload the synapses to some cloud that comes equipped with a bank vault and a trigger lock.

  178. Cassandra says:

    Connoreah,

    This has been asked and answered.

    The Oilers are currently 8th in the league 5×5 in shot% once adjusted for score and venue. I think that is more or less an accurate reflection of their 5×5 play. I personally don’t trust the scoring chance metrics.

    I think they are fine 5×5, though brought down by the lack of scoring talent. They are hurting on special teams and in net.

    My problem is that building a team that is 8th best, is asking for trouble, when you were born on third base.

    I still rather think they will make the playoffs, though time is running out. That won’t mean Chiarelli has done well. With the pieces Chiarelli had this team should have been the best in the league, fell down to 8th in a down year, rather than 8th best that falls to 16th in a down year.

  179. Jethro Tull says:

    I’d like to add “you’re trying to kick a field goal when you need a touchdown” to the Urban Dictionary. Definitions please.

  180. Material pocession says:

    Bag of Pucks: Sakic got nothing but futures for Duchene. Not a proven player in the bunch. Chiarelli got the first D taken in the 2011 draft, who was already established as a player in the league. One trending in a positive direction on QoC metrics and on a value contract.

    The hyperbole really isn’t helping your argument.

    So true. If Chia would have traded Hall for picks and prospects, he would have been skewered. I don’t know where this ‘colossal return’ narrative is coming from. Maybe the picks and prospects turn in to all-stars five years from now, but they could all bust, too. I’d rather have an established roster player.

  181. stush18 says:

    Chachi:
    Thought I’d pop in and read up on the comments. Woof. Lowetide, you are a saint.

    Agreed. I wouldn’t be able to stay reasonable and this stuff I isnt even directed at me.

    Fuck that guy

  182. OmJo says:

    blainer:
    IMO I think JP needs to get back to the A. He is not ready and at times has really not looked good.

    Get him back to the minors and let him work on his game and language issues there and make him hungrier for the big leagues. He is young and there is lots of time to get this player on track but keeping him up now is the wrong move and could actually stall his development.

    Thing is … who replaces him.. Rattie? We still need more speed and not sure who has that on the farm.

    It’s like he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    I’d keep him with Strome and Camalleri for the rest of the road trip. Give him some PP time. So at least if you do send him down they might minimize the chance of losing the players’ commitment.

    I have time for Ty Rattie. Thing is if you send Puljujarvi down and call up Rattie, who will JP play with in Bakersfield? I think we’d have to send Malone down, too. Because after Rattie’s 12pts in 14gp, you have LaLeggia (7 in 14) and Hamilton (6 in 14) as your most productive forwards.

  183. Material pocession says:

    Jethro Tull:
    I’d like to add “you’re trying to kick a field goal when you need a touchdown” to the Urban Dictionary. Definitions please.

    A Maas

  184. OmJo says:

    Jethro Tull:
    I’d like to add “you’re trying to kick a field goal when you need a touchdown” to the Urban Dictionary. Definitions please.

    “Maasive failure”?

    How not to aMaas a comeback.

  185. Material pocession says:

    stush18: Agreed. I wouldn’t be able to stay reasonable and this stuff I isnt even directed at me.

    Fuck that guy

    I love LT’s attitude. He handled this so well. That poster needs some professional counseling if he is getting that upset on a hockey blog. And his last comment? Egomaniac.

  186. Material pocession says:

    OmJo: “Maasive failure”?

    This is good.

  187. haters says:

    We need better than an over preforming backup goaltender.

    Haven’t had an actual starter since Salo.
    Mike Comrie cursed this team when he did what he did ( you know what I’m talking about)

    Since Dwayne Rolo we’ve had a constant audition of backups in net.
    The one that wasn’t (Dubnyk) shit the bed so hard in the face of yet another poorly constructed draft lottery team and took him a year and a half to remember how to play goal.

    If we rebuild a bit this year I would start in net.
    I hope Talbot reads this blog and my crude observations light a fire under his ass.

  188. Connoreah says:

    Cassandra,

    Thank you for your very reasonable response. One follow up question, if I may…

    You suggest that Chia was incredibly lucky with the team he inherited, due to the McDavid lottery. Nobody could argue that having that pick wasn’t a huge, huge benefit.

    But I have to ask, given that Ben Scrivens was our starting goaltender, and our defense consisted of not one single top pairing player (and 4-5 that would not be on a single NHL roster outside of Edmonton), would you at least agree that Chiarelli had a monumental task of building a foundation for the team – outside of our top line center position?

    What I’m suggesting is that perhaps, any GM the Oilers hired in 2015 would have had to lose at least 2 trades in order to get the Oilers back to a reasonable starting point. He had zero leverage with other GMs. He did not have the luxury of time, given the McDavid lottery and the decade of darkness before him. And a year after nearly going to the WCF (and 2 years after taking over), you admit that the roster he built is probably 8th best in the league. Considering all of that, I feel like claiming Chia is the absolute worst may be a bit harsh?

  189. Side says:

    haters:
    We need better than an over preforming backup goaltender.

    Haven’t had an actual starter since Salo.
    Mike Comrie cursed this team when he did what he did ( you know what I’m talking about)

    Since Dwayne Rolo we’ve had a constant audition of backups in net.
    The one that wasn’t (Dubnyk) shit the bed so hard in the face of yet another poorly constructed draft lottery team and took him a year and a half to remember how to play goal.

    If we rebuild a bit this year I would start in net.
    I hope Talbot reads this blog and my crude observations light a fire under his ass.

    The sad thing is, Dubnyk actually played well for 3 years with the Oilers posting .914 to .921 save % which is amazing, considering the defense he had infront of him.

  190. frjohnk says:

    Connoreah: any GM the Oilers hired in 2015 would have had to lose at least 2 trades in order to get the Oilers back to a reasonable starting point. He had zero leverage with other GMs.

    How would losing at least 2 trades make this team better?

    That does not make sense.

  191. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    “Would you consider it a bargain if his performance next year matches what his performance this year to date?”.

    YES, YES & YES.

    OP: McD has 25 Pts in 20 GMS.. On Pace for 100 again. If he puts up 100 pts year over year he will always be in contention for the Art Ross. Only a handful of players EVER have done that. So would I pay $12.5 Mil for a perreninial 100 pt player? All day Long.

  192. Bobcaygeon says:

    stush18:
    Bobcaygeon,

    I’m sorry, but like Cassandra always says, you’re appealing to authority.

    The oilers drafting since chiarelli took over has been impeccable imo.

    Jones, bear, Safin, maksimov, Yamamoto, Wells, skinner, samorukov, berglund, and kemp are all “steals” at the draft, with most players drafted being very reasonable bets.

    It’s 100% hindsight to say we should have drafted someone else because a general manager of the same nationality didn’t like him.

    Also, sergachev looks impressive, but playing with Stamkos and kucherov doesn’t hurt.

    And more to this point, we already have a strong defensive prospect group, and we’re lacking forwards.

    It is 100% hindsight or just plain bias or trolling to say the oilers screwed up, when JP is still one of the youngest players in the NHL, and is just starting his second season of North American hockey.

    This also doesn’t mean I don’t like Keller or sergachev. I do.

    I just don’t see how you can call JP an obvious mistake when the one thing everyone can agree on is that chiarelli has done an very good job of drafting players since he got here.

    I’m not saying JP was a mistake, I’m saying the Oilers should not have drafted him….

    The thing about Kekalainen is he was an exceptional scout before he became a GM, to be totally honest and it pains me to say this, but, I was a huge pusher of Tkachuk… Really wanted the Oilers to draft him..

    So my hindsight isn’t the same as others.

    Just like centers, it doesn’t matter what kind of defensive depth you have, the book on Sergachev was awesome, the Oilers don’t have a Sergachev in the system.

    I like JP, I hope he turns into a NHL player but I’m seeing another Paajarvi, the Oilers need skilled cheap wingers to play with RNH-Driasiatl-Mcdavid.

  193. jtblack says:

    Fun fact:

    Sidney Crosby has won the Art Ross Twice.
    He has finished 2nd – 6 TIMES !!!

  194. stush18 says:

    who: to

    I 100% believe lucic is a first line winger.

    It all comes down to whether or not you believe his counted stats, including points, possession numbers, whatever, have value.

    If you look at him and say, “too slow, too many turnovers, awful contract, I don’t know Ike’s him” the then fine. We don’t have anything to discuss.

    But once again, lucic is a positive Corsi%, FF%, GF% and over 2.00 pts/60 at even strength.

    And even though he’s only one posted 2 assists on the leagues 10th best power play (where’s he scored 24 points last yr), he is on pace for 50 points, on a team that has scored the leagues fewest goals. That pace would have put him in a tie for 89th for forward scoring, which puts him down as roughly the third best scorer on his team (first line).

    This yr, despite hardly scoring on the PP, he is tied for 27th, ahead of pacioretty, who we are apparently willing to trade nuge + for. This also discounts his physicality (which I value) or his playoff scoring.

    So yes, there is no doubt in my mind lucic is a first line LW, and will continue to be so for the next few years.

  195. godot10 says:

    OmJo:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Kyle Turris was part of the trade.

    Duchene for Turris, Hammond, Bowers, 1st round pick, 3rd round pick.

    Turris is a proven player.

    Then he flipped Turris for Kamenev, Girard, and a 2nd round pick.

    That’s how it’s broken down on HockeyDB. Turris is the proven player he got for Duchene. He just didn’t keep him.

    Turris was a UFA-to-be. The 2nd part of that trade only happens because Turris pre-agrees to a new contract. So it is really disingenuous to include what Colorado got from Nashville to what Sakic got for Duchene. The value from Nashville is the value Poile realized for Colorado by convincing Turris to sign a contract.

    So the return for Duchene is really just Turris on an expiring contract, two late firsts, and a 3rd.
    The return for Hall was a young proven RD on a good contract.

    Really not significantly different. Sakic only “wins” because Poile and Turris agree to do business.

  196. haters says:

    Side,

    Sad indeed.
    Tell me. How do you have 2 of the most exciting players on your team and still suck worse than the Thrashers?
    Same way the kings did it in the 80s and 90s. Kelly Hrudey level goaltender.
    After these 20 games I’m not quite ready to run Talbot out of town but I’m sharping my pichfork. Chiarelli can follow as well.
    I’m done defending him.

  197. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lloyd B.: C’mon OP. McDavid is playing for less than $4 M this year.

    Not bad for the best player in the league as you state.Perhaps not so far this year.

    You can posit all you like about McDavid under-performing next years contract, but the fact remains that contract is not in force right now.

    And yes I know you said IF. You know what else IF gets you…an uncle instead of an aunt.

    That isn’t the conversation I was having with LT.

    He said next year his contract will be a bargain and I asked his opinion on, if his performance this year replicated next year would result in the contract still being a bargain.

    We disagree on the answer to that question.

  198. GMB3 says:

    haters:
    We need better than an over preforming backup goaltender.

    Haven’t had an actual starter since Salo.
    Mike Comrie cursed this team when he did what he did ( you know what I’m talking about)

    Since Dwayne Rolo we’ve had a constant audition of backups in net.
    The one that wasn’t (Dubnyk) shit the bed so hard in the face of yet another poorly constructed draft lottery team and took him a year and a half to remember how to play goal.

    If we rebuild a bit this year I would start in net.
    I hope Talbot reads this blog and my crude observations light a fire under his ass.

    Would you say a certain young forward cursed this team with what he did this year?

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