That song about the midway

The Oilers lost in Nashville last night but the effort was as good as we’ve seen since before Christmas. The season is gone, let there be no doubt, but the club was watchable and showed well 5×5 and in goal. Special teams continue to be a mess, the depth is atrocious, the skill breathes only on the McDavid line—and the team has the luck of the Irish, but that was a good game. For me, that counts. A fix will be required, and the general manager is going to have some tough work in summer, but the heart of rock and roll is still beating on the Edmonton Oilers.

THE ATHLETIC!

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 RED RUM, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • January 2016: 2-2-1, goal differential -2 (5 points)
  • January 2017: 2-3-0, goal differential -4 (4 points)
  • January 2018: 1-4-0, goal differential -13 (2 points)

The month remains expansion team ugly but last night is perhaps something to build on. I suspect this team is tiring of being humiliated and was duly engaged in Nashville. If they play like that in Arizona, we’ll see another win on Friday night.

 AFTER 44, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • Oilers 15-16: 17-23-4, goal differential -26 (38 points)
  • Oilers 16-17: 22-15-7, goal differential +7 (51 points)
  • Oilers 17-18: 18-23-3, goal differential -24 (39 points)
Edmonton is 12 points from last year’s team, that’s a lifetime. If the Oilers won 10 in a row, the club would still need to make up some ground, that’s the nature of the Bettman NHL.

 WHAT TO EXPECT FROM DECEMBER

  • At home to: Los Angeles, Anaheim (Expected 0-1-1) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: Dallas, Chicago, Nashville, Arizona, Vegas (Expected 2-2-1) (Actual 0-3-0)
  • At home to: Vancouver, Buffalo, Calgary (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 4-4-2, 10 points in 10 games
  • Current results: 1-4-0, two points in five games

I can’t imagine the Edmonton Oilers standing pat for the rest of the season. This is beyond shocking and speaks to a mammoth misstep by management in summer (which we discussed but did not see as being an elevator shaft moment). We don’t know who pays for it, only that there will be a reckoning.

LAST NIGHT

I had some computer issues last night (thanks to my kids for saving my laptop) so I can’t give you the usual Full Monty. Here are some observations:

  • McDavid scored a beauty, could have had three and he’s a little pissed off based on his interview with Gene after the second. Looks to me as though 97 has built up a reasonable ‘to hell with this noise’ attitude so we could see something special this weekend.
  • Edmonton won the HD and Corsi 5×5 battle by a substantial (10-6 and 59 percent) margin but did not win either in the third period. That was disappointing.
  • The Oilers didn’t have much luck and didn’t get a call but there’s nothing you can do. Bring that effort more and the wins will come.
  • McDavid had 4 HDSC’s, Maroon 2, Nuge, Lucic, Cammalleri and Sekera one each. None from the youngsters not named McDavid.
  • Jesse Puljujarvi is not the same player on Nuge’s line, Todd McLellan has to put him back on the 97 line. Seriously. That’s a hill Peter Chiarelli should die on. It may not save his job, but it’s the right thing to do.
  • Talbot stopped 22 of 24, .917
  • NaturalStatTrick.
  • McDavid line was 6-3 in HD’s, clearly chem (it’s like Clapton and Duane Allman).
  • Nuge line was 4-1 in HD’s but the kid looks a little lost. Need to fix it schnell.
  • Khaira-Strome-Cammalleri looked good to me, I would like to see them again.
  • Nurse-Larsson were fine except for the head hit and immediately after. Put the Swedes back together.
  • Klefbom-Benning were rocking chair, Klefbom is finding the range now. Put the Swedes back together.
  • Sekera-Russell had a good evening, should play together again Friday. Put the Swedes back together.

GOD’S FLASHLIGHT

Remember, when looking at 5×5/60 scoring, I like to think of it this way. Top line at 2.00/60 or over and it would be nice if someone from the second line approached the number. For second line, 1.80+ is reasonable and then after that anyone at 1.50/60 on the third or fourth line (imo) is doing well.

  1. Connor McDavid 2.53
  2. Leon Draisaitl 2.37
  3. Milan Lucic 1.92
  4. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1.87
  5. Jujhar Khaira 1.83
  6. Patrick Maroon 1.71
  7. Mike Cammalleri 1.56
  8. Jesse Puljujarvi 1.51
  9. Ryan Strome 1.47
  10. Zack Kassian 1.27
  11. Mark Letestu 1.15
  12. Drake Caggiula 1.14
  13. Anton Slepyshev 0.89

I think the top five names are either meeting expectations or close (Lucic was 2.00 before moving down to second line) and Maroon will soon be at 2.00 if he continues to play with McDavid. Cammalleri has been playing on depth lines and is getting some business done, Strome is about where we should expect him, and Puljujarvi is sinking like a stone because he isn’t playing with 97 or 29. I’ll go to my grave believing there’s an organizational disconnect on this player, no idea who is on what side.

For defensemen, I prefer Corsi for rel/5×5, a stat that has been demonized by many. It has been improved upon (the Puck IQ boys have a better number) but rel is universally available and (for me) remains the gold standard. It does not reflect toughness of the minutes played, so a player like Larsson comes out worse than he might if we adjusted things.

  1. Andrej Sekera 5.73
  2. Darnell Nurse 2.75
  3. Eric Gryba 2.03
  4. Brandon Davidson 1.87
  5. Yohann Auvitu 1.20
  6. Matt Benning -0.70
  7. Oscar Klefbom -1.45
  8. Adam Larsson -1.86
  9. Kris Russell -3.56 (Fenwick -1.27)

Welcome back Rej, Darnell took a big step forward in his contract year and (for me) Benning is having a better season than people are crediting him for posting. The Swedes have been injured during the first half and Kris Russell refuses to comply (even the Borg can’t get him). (nst)

There’s some real movement now, as the World Juniors had their impact and players like Evan Bouchard spike. My “Oilers player watch” includes Filip Zadina, Quinn Hughes, Ty Smith and Adam Boqvist, prospect insider Simon Boisvert suggested Oliver Wahlstrom would be a good addition as well (you should follow Simon on twitter, simonsnake70).

 

 

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494 Responses to "That song about the midway"

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  1. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    PlayerRel GF%
    VLADIMIR.TARASENKO11.14
    JAROMIR.JAGR10.37
    JOE.PAVELSKI10.11
    DANIEL.SEDIN10.09
    ANZE.KOPITAR9.87
    TAYLOR.HALL9.77
    GABRIEL.LANDESKOG9.55
    HAMPUS.LINDHOLM9.46
    HENRIK.SEDIN9.39
    CHRIS.KUNITZ8.99
    JOE.THORNTON8.79
    JONATHAN.TOEWS8.48
    BRAD.MARCHAND8.46
    PATRICE.BERGERON8.19

    For the record, McDavid is +13.3 GF%Rel in 2723 5v5 minutes in his career.

    Look at the players on that list.

    There are 6 players who are on the same team on that list:

    Sedins
    Little and Big Joe
    Marchand and Selke

    Crosby is 17th, (Datsyuk is 16th btw) so you could count Crosby and Kunitz as one.

    The rest of the players are stone alone on their teams on this list (at least being this high on this list)

    Now image #1 is McDavid at 13.3% and #7 is Hall at 9.8% AND THE EACH DO THAT ON A SEPARATE LINE.

    That’s why I will never forgive Chiarelli,.

    He had greatness in his pocket and pissed it away,.

    Note: yes, if Hall and McDavid are on the same team their GF%Rel will come down due to the presence of each other, but you get what I’m pitching.

    In the one year they kinda played on the same team:

    RelGF%
    Hall 11.82%
    McDavid 10.32%

    Goddamn, what did Peter destroy?

    I can’t think about it anymore. Too painful and twisted.

  2. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide:
    I think Hall cheats a little and he’s not as aware without the puck as you’d like from a checker BUT HE’S NOT A CHECKER. He’s been pushing the river since arrival and continues to do so. I’m thoroughly enjoying his success and hope he delivers on what Ryan Smyth promised.

    I used to post frequently that if you have and expect Taylor Hall checking behind his own net, then you have big problems.

    Is a player “blowing the zone” if he expects competent, fast, accurate passes from his defenseman, particularly if that d-man seemed to have control of the puck until he inexplicably turns it over with a tape-to-tape to an opposing player? This is why the puck moving dman is so important and even Connor “cheats” at times, reasonably expecting a pass that any NHL dman should be able to make.

  3. OmJo says:

    BONE207:
    fifthcartel,

    Maroon got the nutshot from Hartnell, but my guess is Maroon isn’t on the refs good side

    What part of the rule book surrounds this idea of using a ref’s good side for making calls?


    Seriously.

    I do think that’s a thing though. Referee favouritism. Absolutely ridiculous and unprofessional. But it seems to be a reality.

  4. JD_Wry says:

    Admiral Ackbar: When was the last time we remember the Oilers being on the better side of a poorly called game?

    ’91 playoffs v the Flames.

  5. OmJo says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Shit, didn’t Kane cheat for offense in our last game against Chicago? I don’t recall coach benching him for it.

    Or how about Karlsson’s stretch pass to Hoffman. What was Hoffman doing 100 feet away from the play to recieve that pass?

    There’s a time and a place to cheat for offense. It shouldn’t unconditionally be forbidden by fast and skilled players who can do it properly.

  6. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Dmen get a ton of latitude on that play near the paint and on the boards.

    What Lucic did was the wrong thing by the wrong guy in the wrong place.

    I want the games to be called fairly too, but that’s a penalty.

    True but you are ripping Lucic for a play that’s called a penalty less 5% of the time.
    That penalty was a penalty by the rule of law (like the offsides) but it was weak ass sauce nonetheless. Not enough for me to go full freak out on Lucic for sure.

  7. BONE207 says:

    Lowetide:
    I think Hall cheats a little and he’s not as aware without the puck as you’d like from a checker BUT HE’S NOT A CHECKER. He’s been pushing the river since arrival and continues to do so. I’m thoroughly enjoying his success and hope he delivers on what Ryan Smyth promised.

    What did Ryan Smyth promise? Surely not these floods in California?

  8. krakman says:

    Hall, Eberle, 16th, 31st = Larsson, Strome

  9. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Try Sober Life #itsamazing

    No.

  10. Wilde says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    How is only one side being accused of going off, trying to teach, and being smug, when that’s what happened all of last year to them though?

    No offense meant, and I’m not accusing you personally of it, but the Chiarelli deriders had the heater on them all of last year, here and everywhere.

  11. Thinker says:

    Does Griffin ever find his way to the NHL? It’s beyond embarrassing that the pro scouts missed so bad. It’s one thing to take Chris Phillips 1st overall (who still had a long and successful career), but this was a more mature player who should have been much easier to project.

  12. Jethro Tull says:

    OmJo:
    Jethro Tull,

    Shit, didn’t Kane cheat for offense in our last game against Chicago? I don’t recall coach benching him for it.

    Or how about Karlsson’s stretch pass to Hoffman. What was Hoffman doing 100 feet away from the play to recieve that pass?

    There’s a time and a place to cheat for offense. It shouldn’t unconditionally be forbidden by fast and skilled players who can do it properly.

    Yeah, sometimes I’m not even sure it’s “cheating” hence the quotation marks. I think sometimes it’s a perfectly good play screwed up by a pylon that can’t pass or execute a play properly and it’s easier to assign the narrative “blown the zone” or “cheating for offense.”

  13. Jethro Tull says:

    Pouzar: No.

    +1

  14. BONE207 says:

    Lowetide: Well, at 4.09 and 17 pounds, the Oilers were insane to draft him.

    Give him a wand and watch him fly…that Tinkerbell.

  15. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: ???

    – This is you guys:

    “In their eyes you cannot say anything negative about the tribe, or else you are outside the tribe.”

    “Yes, I would rather watch the LW who is 17th in the NHL in points per game score goals rather than watch Lucicship who is 129th in points per game take penalties on the team with the worst PK.”

    “Head of The Table stuff.”

    “Its entirely another to deny and entire year’s worth of grinding on the other tribe”

    “If Lucic were useless that would represent an improvement.”

    “what kind of fanbase thinks that is a good trade?”

    I didn’t call you a prick, I said you two are coming across as smug pricks: both of you do.Huge, massive difference.But you know this.

    – The whole “Chia is an idiot” narrative is so overblown, and you both have a tendency to go off and try to “teach” us why your so right, and us poor fans, incapable of reason, are just emotional beings with no reason, and unable to have nuanced POV.We must be simpletons if we don’t see it that way

    Nothing that you quoted was directed at a particular poster here.

    I did attack Staples and acknowledged that.

    Are you saying I can’t call out Lucic for dumb penalties?

    Are you saying I can’t make fun of the “leadership” narrative around Lucic and Spector saying one of the reasons the Oilers are good (sorry, were good) is because ‘Lucic sits at the head of the table”?

    Are you saying that tribal behavior doesn’t happen between groups?

    Are you saying I should rather watch Lucic take penalties than Hall score goals?

    Did you miss where I identified myself as part of a tribe?

    Also,

    If you’re tired of the “Chia is an idiot” narrative just wait.

    Ray Ferraro and other national media types are starting in on him.

    Ferraro said he built a team for 2011, not 2018.

    Spector said the Oilers results this year are more Chiarelli’s fault than McLellans

    Rishaug said the Oilers results this year are more Chiarelli’s fault than McLellans.

    Even Matty wrote this on twitter:

    @NHLbyMatty
    Retweeted Mark Spector

    Blame rests with the GM not the coach McLellan. Pretty much every move or analysis by Chiarelli after last year has not turned out. It is his team. Oilers wanted experienced coach when they hired McLellan. They have one

    Its not just a handful of Lowetide posters who think this.

    Its going to get louder and louder from many spots.

    Also,

    “If Lucic were useless that would represent an improvement.”

    “what kind of fanbase thinks that is a good trade?”

    I didn’t say these things.

    Batman is a big Batman and defend him/herself.

  16. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909 Emergency Death March Update!

    Oilers not being able to score more than 1 goal per game since Christmas makes for DeathMarch 2.0; a Contest within a Contest! And it’s totally free to enter!

    More prizes for Emergency Death March winners!

    Here’s how to play: simply go to http://www.oilersdeathmarch.com and click ENTER NEW CONTEST

    It’s Easy!

    Contest Book will remain open until mid February; specifically either until puck drop on the 15th @Vegas or 20th Boston, depending on Chiarelli’s job situation.

  17. Jethro Tull says:

    krakman:
    Hall, Eberle, 16th, 31st = Larsson, Strome

    Your math is off.

    It is much easier to keep transactions separate. It’s a very slippery slope to cross the streams.

    Otherwise you end up with a wall in a poorly lit basement with polaroids on a map of the world with red twine connecting drawing pins placed at “centers of energy”. And Robbie Schremp equalling Connor McDavid.

  18. hankster says:

    When you are selective with your statistics, you may fool some of the people some of the time but not one single smart person at anytime !

    They say look at the company you keep and it says a lot about you. So when you ‘re bowling with cassandra/bruce wayne/caramel batman, it makes for a very entertaining event.

    smart people re- evaluate their position when presented with new “evidence”. I nearly sprayed out the water in mouth laughing ! You’re never wrong. Sigh ! The air is so thin up there above the rest of the dumb commoners. Come back down for some oxygen sometime.

    Insanity – trying to convince the other tribe you’re right and they’re wrong of course.

  19. Wilde says:

    Pouzar:

    True but you are ripping Lucic for a play that’s called a penalty less 5% of the time.

    Iunno, I think that’s a penalty less than 5% of the time if it’s in the front of the net, or behind the play.

    Front and center, and everyone’s watching and waiting to see where the puck lands?

    AND you’re Milan Lucic?

    I’m surprised both refs didn’t whistle it at the same time.

  20. Lowetide says:

    BONE207: What did Ryan Smyth promise? Surely not these floods in California?

    That he would bring Stanley home for a visit.

  21. JimmyV1965 says:

    fifthcartel:
    Officiating in the NHL, and sports in general, isn’t great, but there’s not some conspiracy in Edmonton. There should have been a call on Subban’s hook on 97, but that Lucic penalty gets called every time because it’s such an egregious infraction.

    Maroon got the nutshot from Hartnell, but my guess is Maroon isn’t on the refs good side. Things get overstated because the Oilers are bad and fans are pissed.

    Although I agree that it was a penalty, no way does it get called every time. In fact, I would argue that it’s almost a coin toss if it gets called. Ekholm did the exact same thing last night in the neutral zone without getting called.

  22. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Pouzar: True but you are ripping Lucic for a play that’s called a penalty less 5% of the time.
    That penalty was a penalty by the rule of law (like the offsides) but it was weak ass sauce nonetheless. Not enough for me to go full freak out on Lucic for sure.

    Meh.

    Open ice cross checks before the puck get called quite a bit.

    Its actually close to what Subban got called for when he interfered with McDavid.

    They call that in open ice puck pursuit all the time.

  23. OriginalPouzar says:

    Whatif:
    I am surprised to hear how many people are bullish on the game Strome played last night. He did not score and he did not assist on a goal. he did not throw a thundering body check and he did not make a marvelous defensive play.

    What did he do that was worth mentioning.

    Are we now promoting loser hockey?

    He made good plays with the puck throughout the night, battled well and created scoring chances.

    He made a wonderful play on a very important goal that was later disallowed.

    He had a great game – just because he didn’t get on the official score-sheet does not mean he can’t be commended for this positive contributions.

    If he is able to play that type of game on a consistent basis, he fill the 3C spot admirably and that option is something to be talked about unless, of course, we are limited to negative commentary regarding the coach and/or GM and the Hall and Reinhart trades?

  24. Lowetide says:

    This blog is for everyone’s mutual enjoyment. What makes it great is differing views. Talk hockey, talk the subject or you will get timed out.

  25. OilClog says:

    BONE207:
    OilClog,

    OilClog says:
    January 10, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    Strome lost his preseason spot due to the coaches being in love with a midget, seriously, this veteran coaching staff thought a 5’5 120lb little kid was good to start the year with.

    It’s funny when I read about people’s perception of KY. Each time I read about someone disagreeing with the amount of playing time he received early season, he get’s skinnier. He’s gone from 175 to 120 in 6 months. Paging Jenny Craig…


    Clearly I was over exaggerating his size and frame, I like humour with my truths. Eberle was bigger and better at his age and was sent back before the season began… madness.

    Lowetide: Well, at 4.09 and 17 pounds, the Oilers were insane to draft him.

    I’m not saying that in any way shape or form, I love skill and talent, and playing them when they’re actually ready for it. He was not ready for it in any way shape or form. They’ve hindered his growth this season and it’s inexcusable.

    What does it tell Jesse? Kid work your ass off, get acclimated, and get sent down for a kid that’s far less ready then you are because he’s the new toy. It’s ridiculous.

    JP’s finer details, and game were far more NHL ready in the preseason then the undersized kid that needed far more junior time. But everyone was stuck with puppy dog eyes, while there were a few banging their heads off their desks wondering why this kid was not sent down.

    it’s an amazing opening chapter in terrible decision making this season, there should be no surprise the special teams, goaltending or anything else is where it’s at when it’s clear that this organization no matter who is the head is constantly doing the same thing in one way or another.

    I handle the madness with comedy because after that decade of darkness we shouldn’t be here and there’s really nothing left to due but laugh in madness.

  26. Material pocession says:

    Wilde:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    That was the true “16-17 Bolts” year for this team. It’s like if Yzerman traded Kucherov last summer for Chris Tanev.

    In your eyes Hall is the equivalent to Kucherov? Ok then…..

    And Chiarelli had a Hedman on his team when he made that trade? Alrighty…..

  27. vinotintazo says:

    Lowetide: Ryan Smyth promised

    and that would be? Edit: NVM just saw your reply.

  28. Thinker says:

    OmJo: Seriously.

    I do think that’s a thing though. Referee favouritism. Absolutely ridiculous and unprofessional. But it seems to be a reality.

    The NHL is a bush league, and their way of calling games differs from every other sport. They see their role as to simply “manage” the game, calling penalties when they see something egregious, or they feel they need to “rein the game in”. Fans are beginning to disconnect from this, and rightfully so, as the quality of play suffers immensely when players are bending the rules. The NHL really needs more open ice and more consistent reffering. 3 on 3 overtime makes this readily apparent.

  29. godot10 says:

    BONE207: LOL…


    It’s ok. You can say you didn’t understand what you read. It happens around here all the time, thank Gord.

    My point is that I did not read beyond his attempt to mislead with a false in his opening paragraph.

    His intent was clear.

  30. Pouzar says:

    Wilde: I think that’s a penalty less than 5% of the time if it’s in the front of the net

    That’s not the rule.

  31. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Strome had the good kind of a low event night. I’m not surprised some missed how well he played.

  32. Material pocession says:

    Woodguy v2.0: *pphhhhhhttttttt*

    So you want him to be top 3 in RelGF% before he’s not flawed?

    Christ.

    No I want to have an honest discussion about Hall’s defensive ability without moving the goal posts.

  33. BONE207 says:

    Lowetide: That he would bring Stanley home for a visit.

    What the hell!!!
    I never heard that. Hell, I’d be happy with a phone call.

  34. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Meh.

    Open ice cross checks before the puck get called quite a bit.

    Its actually close to what Subban got called for when he interfered with McDavid.

    They call that in open ice puck pursuit all the time.

    ah ha!

    I knew that Hartnell stick to the balls was just inside the blue! #BlueBalls

  35. Pouzar says:

    A very enjoyable thread I must say. 🙂

  36. Wilde says:

    Pouzar: That’s not the rule.

    I know, and it’s stupid, and it’s not the only non-rulebook reason it was called, making it an even more hilariously poor call.

    But you gotta know they’re gonna do that to Milan.

  37. hankster says:

    I was a fan of Taylor Hall in Windsor.
    I was a fan of Taylor Hall the first few yrs as an Oiler.
    I was never a big fan of Eberle
    I am not a big fan of Chia
    I am losing my confidence in Mcllelan
    I am fairly certain there were tribes well before the Hall trade

  38. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Wilde:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    How is only one side being accused of going off, trying to teach, and being smug, when that’s what happened all of lat year to them though?

    No offenae meant, and I’m not accusing you personally of it, but the Chiarelli deriders had the heater on them all of last year, here and everywhere.

    – It’s a good conversation to have…

    – I am a huge advocate of results matter. For sure this year, results have been brutal.

    – Last year, I think many were comfortable in a mushy middle, where they wish Hall garnered more, but have a RHD that was playing top-line minutes, and moved everyone down. Some thought it was fair deal, some thought there should have been more, but accepted that at least in some part trading offence for defence helped out a lot

    – So this year, Larsson is injured (and Hall isn’t), and Hall is lighting it up, and Larsson been on IR.

    – So there is always a Chia is sh$t camp, and they trot this Hall vs. Larsson narrative.

    – Last year we were a healthy team, with few injuries, and good goaltending, and we made progress.

    – This year, we have had some injuries: the D went from a strength to weakness with 2 of top-4 out/injured, very poor G, awful luck and a lot of hurt

    – So fine, assign blame for all of this today on Chia who is sh$t, because 2 years ago he traded away a good scoring winger.

    – There are really about 5 groups to assign blame to for this season:

    1) The coach (for his bad systems, and his special teams)
    2) The GM (because he’s sh%t, and the roster is so much worse than last year)
    3) The players (because they are learning, being hard on themselves, trying too much, etc)
    4) The Goalies (becaues they suck, or because the systems suck)
    5) Variance (i.e. sh%t happens)

    – We all have different views on the different factors. But it’s tiring to read the same “Chia is sh%t”, the team sucks, and ignore everything else and assign him all the blame

    – The 5 groups above: no one can “prove” which amount to assign to each factor (although I know that the variance is at least measurable)

    – The cause and effect and the interaction of all 5 though, that’s the meat of opining for this terrible state we are in, and awful results…

    – Putting it all on Chia is facile, and emotional, and not complete, IMO. A healthy Sek, and they should win game 7, and measure up nicely vs both Nashville and Pitts.

    – Th stretches of really good games this year, where we impose our will: that’s not luck IMO: it’s a learning curve to get there all the time: a learning curve by players, and coaching staff who coaches them up.

    – Of course, Chia would still be sh%t…

  39. JimmyV1965 says:

    Whatif:
    I am surprised to hear how many people are bullish on the game Strome played last night. He did not score and he did not assist on a goal. he did not throw a thundering body check and he did not make a marvelous defensive play.

    What did he do that was worth mentioning.

    Are we now promoting loser hockey?

    Although he’s less than meh defensively and only slightly more physcial than Ebs, which is hard to do, I thought it was his best game as an Oiler. He was driving play in the ozone and really looked good on the called-back goal.

    Having said that, he needs to have a huge year next year or he’s playing in Europe two years from now. I can’t envision any team signing him for two years in the off season. He’ll get one more show-me contract. Chia basically traded Ebs for nothing.

  40. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    PlayerRel GF%
    VLADIMIR.TARASENKO11.14
    JAROMIR.JAGR10.37
    JOE.PAVELSKI10.11
    DANIEL.SEDIN10.09
    ANZE.KOPITAR9.87
    TAYLOR.HALL9.77
    GABRIEL.LANDESKOG9.55
    HAMPUS.LINDHOLM9.46
    HENRIK.SEDIN9.39
    CHRIS.KUNITZ8.99
    JOE.THORNTON8.79
    JONATHAN.TOEWS8.48
    BRAD.MARCHAND8.46
    PATRICE.BERGERON8.19

    For the record, McDavid is +13.3 GF%Rel in 2723 5v5 minutes in his career.

    Look at the players on that list.

    There are 6 players who are on the same team on that list:

    Sedins
    Little and Big Joe
    Marchand and Selke

    Crosby is 17th, (Datsyuk is 16th btw) so you could count Crosby and Kunitz as one.

    The rest of the players are stone alone on their teams on this list (at least being this high on this list)

    Now image #1 is McDavid at 13.3% and #7 is Hall at 9.8% AND THE EACH DO THAT ON A SEPARATE LINE.

    That’s why I will never forgive Chiarelli,.

    He had greatness in his pocket and pissed it away,.

    Note: yes, if Hall and McDavid are on the same team their GF%Rel will come down due to the presence of each other, but you get what I’m pitching.

    In the one year they kinda played on the same team:

    RelGF%
    Hall 11.82%
    McDavid 10.32%

    Goddamn, what did Peter destroy?

    Ppl need to read this again.

    And again.

    And again.

    Adam Larsson is a fine hockey player. He’s not a river pusher however like Taytay.

  41. Cassandra says:

    Material pocession: In your eyes Hall is the equivalent to Kucherov?Ok then…..

    And Chiarelli had a Hedman on his team when he made that trade?Alrighty…..

    Well Chris Tanev is a lot better than Adam Larsson so I guess the analogy still holds.

  42. OilClog says:

    Trading Hall was insanity, literally ripped the heart out of whatever hope there was for new age dynasty. There isn’t a single move Chia has made that is as detrimental as that one, it killed everything that’s why people are angry. They had two game changers, under control for a decade.. two! Actual fucking game changers.

    Now they have one that the opposition dumps their entire focus on, and the Oilers can’t do shit. They score one goal and that’s considered a success. Madness

  43. VanIsleOil says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Still trying to reverse the Taylor Hall trade is beyond beating a dead horse at this point.

    We’re now beating the ghost of the reincarnated horse that followed and then died of natural causes.

    https://m.popkey.co/3ebdf6/16oQL_s-200×150.gif

  44. Cassandra says:

    Material pocession: No I want to have an honest discussion about Hall’s defensive ability without moving the goal posts.

    Who moved the goal posts?

    A) You can’t have a good GF% if you are bad defensively, unless you score at superhuman rates. Hall doesn’t gave an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players. He has an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players while not being bad defensively. That isn’t moving the goal posts.

    B) I specifically referenced only against numbers.

  45. BONE207 says:

    godot10: My point is that I did not read beyond his attempt to mislead with a false in his opening paragraph.

    His intent was clear.

    Hilarious laughter here…

    The only intent is what you perceived here. Bruce doesn’t mislead anyone. Otherwise he’d be out chasing meteorites or eclipses all over hell’s half acre…oh, wait…

  46. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    hankster,

    smart people re- evaluate their position when presented with new “evidence”. I nearly sprayed out the water in mouth laughing ! You’re never wrong. Sigh !

    I thought this was common knowledge.

    “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change. ― Albert Einstein”

    https://techcrunch.com/2012/10/19/jeff-bezos-the-smart-people-change-their-minds/

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-6494.1976.tb00120.x/full

    I wasn’t talking down to anyone.

    Its a thing.

    I state a fact and it gets taken as me deriding others.

  47. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: He made good plays with the puck throughout the night, battled well and created scoring chances.

    He made a wonderful play on a very important goal that was later disallowed.

    He had a great game – just because he didn’t get on the official score-sheet does not mean he can’t be commended for this positive contributions.

    If he is able to play that type of game on a consistent basis, he fill the 3C spot admirably and that option is something to be talked about unless, of course, we are limited to negative commentary regarding the coach and/or GM and the Hall and Reinhart trades?

    We have five years of evidence that STrome can’t play that type of game on a consistent basis.

    People who believe Strome can change are like women who believe they can change their “bad boy” boyfriend.

    Believing Strome can play is like believing turkeys can fly.

  48. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Cassandra: Well Chris Tanev is a lot better than Adam Larsson so I guess the analogy still holds.

    I have Tanev ahead of Larsson, but not by much.

    Same category for me.

  49. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    hankster,

    I am fairly certain there were tribes well before the Hall trade

    I brought up tribalism waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Hall become a subject in today’s thread.

  50. OilClog says:

    Even though they had a great year last year there was still a very large camp of folks that were pissed right off Hall was gone, winning never changed that. Lars is a good player and imo on my team before Tanev everyday of the week.

    Material pocession: No I want to have an honest discussion about Hall’s defensive ability without moving the goal posts.

    When Hall has the puck at the opposing goal posts the majority of his time on ice.. that’s some great defensive ability.

    controlling the puck, play, making linemates better every second they’re on the ice with him.. what a defensive hole! More Drake Cagguila ‘8’ games please!

  51. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    This thread is very tribal

  52. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    These pretzels are making me thirsty!!

  53. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    George likes his Kung Pao spicy!

  54. Pouzar says:

    godot10: We have five years of evidence that STrome can’t play that type of game on a consistent basis.

    People who believe Strome can change are like women who believe they can change their “bad boy” boyfriend.

    Believing Strome can play is like believing turkeys can fly.

    I don’t believe it for the record.

    I want to but I can’t.

    Fire him, SAK, and Caggs to the sun and get some bottom 6 PKers in here who can play a 5 on 5 shift.

  55. BONE207 says:

    Pouzar:
    A very enjoyable thread I must say.

    Don’t know what it’s like in Winnipeg but..this is Way more fun than digging ditches in -35 weather.

  56. Side says:

    OilClog: Clearly I was over exaggerating his size and frame, I like humour with my truths. Eberle was bigger and better at his age and was sent back before the season began… madness.

    I’m not saying that in any way shape or form, I love skill and talent, and playing them when they’re actually ready for it. He was not ready for it in any way shape or form. They’ve hindered his growth this season and it’s inexcusable.

    What does it tell Jesse? Kid work your ass off, get acclimated, and get sent down for a kid that’s far less ready then you are because he’s the new toy. It’s ridiculous.

    JP’s finer details, and game were far more NHL ready in the preseason then the undersized kid that needed far more junior time. But everyone was stuck with puppy dog eyes, while there were a few banging their heads off their desks wondering why this kid was not sent down.

    it’s an amazing opening chapter in terrible decision making this season, there should be no surprise the special teams, goaltending or anything else is where it’s at when it’s clear that this organization no matter who is the head is constantly doing the same thing in one way or another.

    I handle the madness with comedy because after that decade of darkness we shouldn’t be here and there’s really nothing left to due but laugh in madness.

    From what I recall, during the time there was lots of talk about KY performing as such:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/kailer-yamamoto-earns-edmonton-oilers-opening-night-roster-spot/c-291522908

    JP was not performing as people had expected or hoped.

    KY was given a “you performed well, lets see how you do in the NHL” probably based on him being tied for 4th in scoring during the preseason (preseason, who cares, but still, it’s something) and was given his trial games and was sent down.

    People seem to forget that KY surprised a lot of people with his play and was playing like he wasn’t “undersized”.

    To say “He was not ready for it in any way shape or form. They’ve hindered his growth this season and it’s inexcusable.” is an odd thing to say.

    Especially when you compare KY to JP, who you say, JP was better at the “finer” things and was more “NHL ready” when JP was also not exactly lighting it up in juniors after being sent down.

    I bet if KY was 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier, you would not be feeling like KY was not NHL ready.

  57. OmJo says:

    Thinker,

    Makes me wonder… What did we promise Vegas to take Reinhart? Or are their pro-scouts just as bad as ours?

  58. OilClog says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    hankster,

    smart people re- evaluate their position when presented with new “evidence”. I nearly sprayed out the water in mouth laughing ! You’re never wrong. Sigh !

    I thought this was common knowledge.

    “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change. ― Albert Einstein”

    https://techcrunch.com/2012/10/19/jeff-bezos-the-smart-people-change-their-minds/

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-6494.1976.tb00120.x/full

    I wasn’t talking down to anyone.

    Its a thing.

    I state a fact and it gets taken as me deriding others.

    “I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius….and a very stable genius at that!”

    “”Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart,”

    Don’t feed the republicans, you’re better then that.

  59. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    This thread is very tribal

    Violently so.

  60. Cassandra says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I have Tanev ahead of Larsson, but not by much.

    Same category for me.

    I like the idea of putting players in category. I vote for a 7 pt scale (a 5pt scale + 2 extra for outliers).

    Someting like

    7-Outlier–McDavid, Kucherov, Hedman, Karlsson before injury
    6-Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Subban, Draisatl (maybe)
    5-RNH,Eberle,
    4-Maroon,
    3-Strome (maybe),
    2-Kassian,
    1-Replacement and below (Gryba)

    Where do you put the D other than the superstars? Are Larsson and Tanev 4 or 5? If they are 5, what does a 4 D look like?

  61. Thinker says:

    Reading about the outrage to Sharks comments on Winnepeg. Is it not universally understood that it’s the worst place on earth summer or winter? I would never live there and that is coming from an Edmontonian.

  62. Pouzar says:

    BONE207: Don’t know what it’s like in Winnipeg but..this is Way more fun than digging ditches in -35 weather.

    Better than a stick in the balls for sure.

  63. bendelson says:

    Gerta Rauss: That was me Bendelson

    And I’m sorry about the guest bathroom-I had Mexican for lunch

    Option 1:

    Damn Gerta!
    I thought the dogs got into the garbage again…

    Option 2:

    Guest bathroom?

  64. Wilde says:

    Material pocession,

    Yes, Hall is closer to Kucherov than most think.

    Hall’s G/60 and A1/60 this year are 1.2, and 1.6.

    Kucherov is reversed, 1.8 and 1.3

    And they have the same oiSH%.

    Kucherov is shooting 18% himself though, which is high even with the best snapshot in the NHL. Give him his career 15%, and he’s closer to 1.6G/60.

    Which puts them right beside eachother in primary points per hour.

    Hall is doing that with a rookie centreman and a D core reminiscent of our 2015 unit, so I think the analogy is fair there too.

  65. Pouzar says:

    Thinker:
    Reading about the outrage to Sharks comments on Winnepeg. Is it not universally understood that it’s the worst place on earth summer or winter? I would never live there and that is coming from an Edmontonian.

    I am no Winnipegger but I live here. Are you living in EDM and seriously slagging on Winnipeg?

    Give yer head a shake bud.

  66. OilClog says:

    Side: From what I recall, during the time there was lots of talk about KY performing as such:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/kailer-yamamoto-earns-edmonton-oilers-opening-night-roster-spot/c-291522908

    JP was not performing as people had expected or hoped.

    KY was given a “you performed well, lets see how you do in the NHL” probably based on him being tied for 4th in scoring during the preseason (preseason, who cares, but still, it’s something) and was given his trial games and was sent down.

    People seem to forget that KY surprised a lot of people with his play and was playing like he wasn’t “undersized”.

    To say “He was not ready for it in any way shape or form. They’ve hindered his growth this season and it’s inexcusable.” is an odd thing to say.

    Especially when you compare KY to JP, who you say, JP was better at the “finer” things and was more “NHL ready” when JP was also not exactly lighting it up in juniors after being sent down.

    I bet if KY was 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier, you would not have said the things you did in your post.

    Bullshit

    I never forgot he was undersized, I never thought his play was NHL ready because he looked ok with Mcdavid.

    JP was producing with Mcdavid in preseason when he got a chance too, everyone forgets his beautiful lil fullspeed tip play to Mcdavid setting up a beautiful break in goal.

    Finer things are not points, it’s reading the play, being responsible, covering your bases. Letting the points come naturally if they do. JP stopped trying to force things, he remarkably improved his skating, and is there a better back checker on the team? He’s the best two way winger they have for Gords sake, and some saw that as early as the preseason.

    Fellow veteran players were in fact saying the opposite of coaches and media pundits. Lucic in fact stated he looked ready.

    If he’s 6inches taller and 40lbs heavier… we’re talking about a completely different situation! We’re talking about JP! And he wasn’t ready last year!

    Madness

  67. BONE207 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Still trying to reverse the Taylor Hall trade is beyond beating a dead horse at this point.

    We’re now beating the ghost of the reincarnated horse that followed and then died of natural causes

    I’m of the mind that said carcass was carted away by aliens after our sun had gone supernova, put in a museum on display as “other intelligent life in the universe” before finally meeting its demise as a pinata at some 3 eyed kids birthday party.

  68. godot10 says:

    Side: From what I recall, during the time there was lots of talk about KY performing as such:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/kailer-yamamoto-earns-edmonton-oilers-opening-night-roster-spot/c-291522908

    JP was not performing as people had expected or hoped.

    And a lot of us were saying at the time that that was BS.

  69. Jethro Tull says:

    Cassandra: I like the idea of putting players in category.I vote for a 7 pt scale (a 5pt scale + 2 extra for outliers).

    Someting like

    7-Outlier–McDavid, Kucherov, Hedman, Karlsson before injury
    6-Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Subban, Draisatl (maybe)
    5-RNH,Eberle,
    4-Maroon,
    3-Strome (maybe),
    2-Kassian,
    1-Replacement and below (Gryba)

    Where do you put the D other than the superstars?Are Larsson and Tanev 4 or 5?If they are 5, what does a 4 D look like?

    Sorry Cass, but your 7pt scale made me think of this. I think these guys post here….

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/14/guy-trolls-that-annoying-person-on-facebook-in-the-best-possible-way-5564102/

  70. hunter1909 says:

    OilClog: I handle the madness with comedy because after that decade of darkness we shouldn’t be here and there’s really nothing left to due but laugh in madness.

    Fair point, until you understand that, like in For Whom the Bell Tolls…

  71. BONE207 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    hankster,

    smart people re- evaluate their position when presented with new “evidence”. I nearly sprayed out the water in mouth laughing ! You’re never wrong. Sigh !

    I thought this was common knowledge.

    “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change. ― Albert Einstein”

    https://techcrunch.com/2012/10/19/jeff-bezos-the-smart-people-change-their-minds/

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-6494.1976.tb00120.x/full

    I wasn’t talking down to anyone.

    Its a thing.

    I state a fact and it gets taken as me deriding others.

    Just like your sarcasm blindness, I think most people have intelligence blindness when it comes from you.

  72. Thinker says:

    OmJo:
    Thinker,

    Makes me wonder… What did we promise Vegas to take Reinhart? Or are their pro-scouts just as bad as ours?

    What was their other option? Khaira probably, who projected to a 4line winger at most at that time. I’m still not a huge McPhee supporter. I think he left a lot of value out there at the expansion draft.

  73. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Pouzar: I am no Chia fan and use “we…” all the time.

    The Barzal trade will haunt me forever.

    I proposed a theory based on observation.

    I didn’t write it in stone.

  74. hunter1909 says:

    Side: KY was given

    Side: and was given his trial games

    I honestly don’t remember Toe Blake playing rookies for the first 9 games of the NHL Regular season, probably on the basis that it seriously might fuck up the Hab’s chances of repeating yet another Stanley Cup win.

    Then, following the glorious 1971 cup win the Habs played rookie Guy Lafleur who like Yamamoto struggled on the 1st line, partially due to being played at centre.

    I guess my point is, why do the Oilers routinely play rookies for 9 games, as if it’s an entitlement?

  75. BONE207 says:

    Pouzar: Better than a stick in the balls for sure.

    Speaking of hors doeuvres , I’m going to the bar.

  76. OilClog says:

    https://youtu.be/2lShHTusM1Y

    Baam kid you’ve made the team… oh nope wait

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: We have five years of evidence that STrome can’t play that type of game on a consistent basis.

    People who believe Strome can change are like women who believe they can change their “bad boy” boyfriend.

    Believing Strome can play is like believing turkeys can fly.

    Development isn’t a thing?

    A player’s performance in his first couple of years as a pro is always indicative of his future performance?

    I understand your bias against this player, its very clear from your previous posts.

    I would like to see the man given that spot in the lineup for material portion of the rest of the season and evaluate notwithstanding I’ve been told the last 40 games mean nothing as far as player assessment.

  78. Thinker says:

    Jethro Tull: Sorry Cass, but your 7pt scale made me think of this.I think these guys post here….

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/14/guy-trolls-that-annoying-person-on-facebook-in-the-best-possible-way-5564102/

    This was an extremely high quality post.

  79. hunter1909 says:

    Re Chiarelli and the Taylor Hall trade:

    I remember avidly checking out Boston’s reaction to trading Seguin for Dallas Stars rejects and castoffs; and the pro-Chiarelli faction sounded suspiciously like Lowe+MacT lemmings. Stuff like “Chiarelli did the right thing” etc lol

    New Jersey got themselves gifted a superstar. Chiarelli’s pissed away so many team assets there’s no freaking way he keeps his job.

  80. Side says:

    OilClog: Bullshit

    I never forgot he was undersized, I never thought his play was NHL ready because he looked ok with Mcdavid.

    JP was producing with Mcdavid in preseason when he got a chance too, everyone forgets his beautiful lil fullspeed tip play to Mcdavid setting up a beautiful break in goal.

    Finer things are not points, it’s reading the play, being responsible, covering your bases. Letting the points come naturally if they do. JP stopped trying to force things, he remarkably improved his skating, and is there a better back checker on the team? He’s the best two way winger they have for Gords sake, and some saw that as early as the preseason.

    Fellow veteran players were in fact saying the opposite of coaches and media pundits. Lucic in fact stated he looked ready.

    If he’s 6inches taller and 40lbs heavier… we’re talking about a completely different situation! We’re talking about JP! And he wasn’t ready last year!

    Madness

    KY was reading the plays and was pretty responsible defensively from what I recall. And during his NHL trial he had quite a few opportunities where he could have scored but just whiffed, let nerves get to him, whatever. He was in the right places at the right times. He was still very much a rookie, but lets not act like he didn’t play well in the pre-season. And given the winger depth on the Oilers, it’s not shocking that he got his 9 game trial based on the pre-season.

    What I will never understand is why people think bringing a talented rookie up for an NHL trial completely ruins their development. Is there no value in showing the rookie what it takes to play in the NHL? To show them what areas they need to improve on? Would him being down in the Juniors for a handful of games have significantly improved his development thus far? No value in playing with and against NHL quality players? I don’t buy it at all.

    You’re right, if KY was bigger you wouldn’t be able to use size as an excuse as to why he didn’t deserve his 9 games in the NHL. People act like KY was being held by his ankles, having his lunch money shaken out. This didn’t really happen, from what I recall.

    My point is I think you, and many other people, just see KY’s size and your mind is already made.

  81. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    BONE207: Hilarious laughter here…

    The only intent is what you perceived here. Bruce doesn’t mislead anyone. Otherwise he’d be out chasing meteorites or eclipses all over hell’s half acre…oh, wait…

    I thought he was an astrologer?

  82. OmJo says:

    fifthcartel,

    I came up with a theory yesterday that Bettman was so furious at Oilers winning the McDavid lottery that he’s behind a special reffing policy for the Oilers and this is why players get away with so much with McDavid as opposed to Crosby and most other superstars who get preferential treatment.

    That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.

  83. Side says:

    godot10: And a lot of us were saying at the time that that was BS.

    Cool.

    I didn’t say otherwise.

  84. Thinker says:

    OriginalPouzar: Development isn’t a thing?

    A player’s performance in his first couple of years as a pro is always indicative of his future performance?

    I understand your bias against this player, its very clear from your previous posts.

    I would like to see the man given that spot in the lineup for material portion of the rest of the season and evaluate notwithstanding I’ve been told the last 40 games mean nothing as far as player assessment.

    I think we had a pretty good idea what Strome was. Are you actually Chiarelli thought? Legally you have to tell me if you’re Chiarelli.

  85. Wilde says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – It’s a good conversation to have…

    – Last year, I think many were comfortable in a mushy middle, where they wish Hall garnered more, but have a RHD that was playing top-line minutes, and moved everyone down.Some thought it was fair deal, some thought there should have been more, but accepted that at least in some part trading offence for defence helped out a lot

    – This year, we have had some injuries: the D went from a strength to weakness with 2 of top-4 out/injured, very poor G, awful luck and a lot of hurt

    – So fine, assign blame for all of this today on Chia who is sh$t, because 2 years ago he traded away a good scoring winger.

    – Putting it all on Chia is facile, and emotional, and not complete, IMO.

    1) I don’t think a mushy middle is what I was reading, I saw a lot of teasing and lambasting of Chia criticisers at every turn, especially when Larsson or Lucic did something notable, or Hall got injured. Or the games we played against the Devils. Re read those threads, yikes.

    2) The injury and goaltending excuse could have also been used in 2015-16, as the injuries were MUCH worse then.

    3) Multiple times here you’re writing in a comment addressed to me, about blaming everything on Chia. I did not and have never done this. If you’re not talking about me in any of those asides, why is it written to me at all, and why so many times?

  86. OilClog says:

    WJH

    12games – 19pts
    7games – 4pts

    If scoring is all that matters.. Yamamoto likely to get 14 in his next 5?

    5 of JP’s games were as a 17yr old.

    So as 18yr olds..

    7games – 17pts
    7games – 4pts

    What else can we cherry pick.

  87. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde:
    Material pocession,

    Yes, Hall is closer to Kucherov than most think.

    Hall’s G/60 and A1/60 this year are 1.2, and 1.6.

    Kucherov is reversed, 1.8 and 1.3

    And they have the same oiSH%.

    Kucherov is shooting 18% himself though, which is high even with the best snapshot in the NHL. Give him his career 15%, and he’s closer to 1.6G/60.

    Which puts them right beside eachother in primary points per hour.

    Hall is doing that with a rookie centreman and a D core reminiscent of our 2015 unit, so I think the analogy is fair there too.

    Hall’s unworldly results since 2011 don’t register with some people.

    They really have no idea how good he is in relation to most NHLers.

    I blame the local media mostly for deriding him and blaming him for EDM’s results.

    National media know shit about WC teams, look at the standings and decide everyone is no good.

    A guy on TSN said yesterday “RNH has to play better for EDM to compete”

    WTactualF?

    What the media says matters because people who consume it internalize it.

    That’s why I’m such a whiner about MSM on here and twitter.

    It matters.

    I posted a metric using GOALS IN HOCKEY that showed him among the elite and it gets shrugged off and they start talking about his back checking

    Its insane.

  88. BONE207 says:

    Jethro Tull: Sorry Cass, but your 7pt scale made me think of this.I think these guys post here….

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/14/guy-trolls-that-annoying-person-on-facebook-in-the-best-possible-way-5564102/

    Rotflmao…

  89. Side says:

    hunter1909:
    I honestly don’t remember Toe Blake playing rookies for the first 9 games of the NHL Regular season, probably on the basis that it seriously might fuck up the Hab’s chances of repeating yet another Stanley Cup win.

    Then, following the glorious 1971 cup win the Habs played rookie Guy Lafleur who like Yamamoto struggled on the 1st line, partially due to being played at centre.

    I guess my point is, why do the Oilers routinely play rookies for 9 games, as if it’s an entitlement?

    I think this year in particular, they played KY because they had a pretty big lack of winger depth, and KY played well. Him being 4th in scoring for the pre-season (yawn, I know) probably piqued the Oilers curiosity and see whether he could carry the momentum into regular season.

    I also imagine (and am reading in the leaves from comments left by Chiarelli and McLellan), the Oilers want to give their talented rookies a taste of what the NHL is like. They want them to feel what the schedule is like, the pace of a NHL game, show them what areas they need to improve on, and show them what it’s like to play against and with NHL level players. They are now treating it as an internship for their chosen ones, and less like a “hey, we’re hiring you into a permanent position and we expect you to perform, so.. good luck!” like they have done in the DoD.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    Geez – the Oilers need to get better next year. When they are bad there are simply too many posts in these threads. I can’t keep up and stay engaged. I do like 35 minutes of work and come back to dozens and dozens of posts – I’m missing stuff and OriginalPouzar does like to miss stuff.

    It might be more realistic to quit my job than have the Oilers be better mind you….

  91. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OilClog: “I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius….and a very stable genius at that!”

    “”Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart,”

    Don’t feed the republicans, you’re better then that.

    What?

  92. hunter1909 says:

    Side: What I will never understand is why people think bringing a talented rookie up for an NHL trial completely ruins their development.

    Rhetorically you’re in the cafeteria.

    Pre-season I recall MPS once scored a beautiful hat trick. Yamamoto was no where near NHL regular season ready. Yet got gifted 1st line minutes. It’s freaking pathetic, just how poorly managed this team is on a perpetual basis.

    How much more of this crap takes place, before Connor McDavid decides he’s better off playing on Broadway?

  93. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    BONE207: Just like your sarcasm blindness, I think most people have intelligence blindness when it comes from you.

    Its funny, I’ve received DMs on twitter from people who’ve heard me on LT’s show that basically say “now that I hear you say the same things you write I don’t think you’re such a big asshole”

    Tone is everything and I know my writing comes across as condescending when writing even the most banal things.

    I’d pay $100 to hear the voice Kinger reads my posts in.

    Of course I get tweets and DMs telling me that they hope I die so its stops me from poisoning Oiler fans minds so what the hell do I know.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thinker: I think we had a pretty good idea what Strome was. Are you actually Chiarelli thought? Legally you have to tell me if you’re Chiarelli.

    We have a good idea but, at the same time, we have also seen him have games where he brings much more than our idea of what he is provides. The question is if he can bring that game on a consistent basis. It seems unlikely, however, players do mature and find consistency in their game as they develop so there is a chance. I’d like to see the player at 3C for the material portion of the games remaining.

  95. flea says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Keep up the great work WG

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Its pretty clear that, at this point, Puljijarvi is an NHL player and Yamamoto is not.

    The error that management made was not sending down Yamamoto after camp and then keeping him here for such a long stretch even after it was clear that he was not ready (his S/60 in a small sample size don’t mean much to me).

    Sending Puljijarvi down was absolutely the right move and should be analyzed independently of the mistake with Kailer. He needed to go down. He was instructed to work on certain elements of his game not related to offensive production (angles, gaps, stops and starts as opposed to wide turns, etc.).

    From accounts he did well working on those nuances of the game and I posit that his success now at the NHL level (which is up and down and zoomed by 97) is partially a function of the time in California earlier this year. It was needed for his development.

  97. Thinker says:

    OriginalPouzar: We have a good idea but, at the same time, we have also seen him have games where he brings much more than our idea of what he is provides. The question is if he can bring that game on a consistent basis.It seems unlikely, however, players do mature and find consistency in their game as they develop so there is a chance.I’d like to see the player at 3C for the material portion of the games remaining.

    The biggest separating factor between good and bad players is consistency. Yak looked all world at times. I think strome fills a role on an NHL team, but it’s not a very important one. He is a mediocre 3C, but that might be the sacrifice we have to make to get Drai up to make a legitimate top 6. Plus replace Maroon, and find some 3rd line wingers. Unicorns are only possible if we find cap room for a bunch of top 6 wingers.

  98. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Wilde: 1) I don’t think a mushy middle is what I was reading, I saw a lot of teasing and lambasting of Chia criticisers at every turn, especially when Larsson or Lucic did something notable, or Hall got injured. Or the games we played against the Devils. Re read those threads, yikes.

    2) The injury and goaltending excuse could have also been used in 2015-16, as the injuries were MUCH worse then.

    3) Multiple times here you’re writing in a comment addressed to me, about blaming everything on Chia. I did not and have never done this. If you’re not talking about me in any of those asides, why is it written to me at all, and why so many times?

    – Awesome to have these conversations, to compare years, that’s constructive IMO…

    – Certainly there was a lot of Chia is sh%t, then a lot of “How can be Chia be so sh%t if the team does so well”? And now we be back to “Told you Chia is sh%t”

    – I don’t think I’ve ever replied to you before? My post was answering your query about “why do people have the Chia thingy” and so I gave it my best shot, as I think it gets to a lot of what ails us

    – Where did I say that you specifically said that Chia is “sh%t”, written to you? Show me where I said: “Wilde, you think Chia is sh%t”? I was capturing the sentiment of those who do, and gave my thoughts

    – Are you just trolling?

  99. Side says:

    hunter1909: Rhetorically you’re in the cafeteria.

    Pre-season I recall MPS once scored a beautiful hat trick. Yamamoto was no where near NHL regular season ready. Yet got gifted 1st line minutes. It’s freaking pathetic, just how poorly managed this team is on a perpetual basis.

    How much more of this crap takes place, before Connor McDavid decides he’s better off playing on Broadway?

    Not sure what MPS scoring a hat trick in a game has to do with much.

    A lot of people would disagree with you about KY not getting a 9 game trial. The Oilers depth on the wing sucks and they wanted to see how he would do. It’s 9 games. Not a season. And in those 9 games, it’s not like KY single handedly lost games.

    If you stayed with the Oilers during the DoD, I’m surprised you get this upset over KY getting 9 games.

  100. Wilde says:

    Woodguy v2.0:

    I posted a metric using GOALS IN HOCKEY

    Funny you say this; the exact reason why I use ‘goals in hockey’ whenever I talk to someone who may be anti-advanced-stats metrics is because it’s what should matter the most to them.

    If you trash process oriented thinking and hold results above all, then goal metrics are argumentatively unnassailable.

  101. russ99 says:

    Re: Jesse on the McDavid line:

    The McDavid line is the carrot. Jesse has had the puck on his stick myriad times in great scoring positions but is not scoring.

    You can’t gift him McDavid line time in the name of development, especially when we can’t score a goal and the McDavid – Draisaitl pair is most predictable way to do that.

    As I said in yesterday’s thread, Jesse will get his chances, will get on McDavid’s line, will get on the PP, but Todd just can’t put him there by default if the results aren’t coming.

  102. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    flea:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Keep up the great work WG

    love you too baby!

  103. russ99 says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    I don’t agree with you on many things, but I’ll fight to the death your right to say it.

    Different opinions make a blog great.

  104. hunter1909 says:

    Side: It’s 9 games. Not a season.

    9 games = 11% of an NHL season.

    Oilers 2017-18 record through 1st 9 games: 3-5-1

    Hardly enough to skewer a season, but with a young team like the Oilers it might have been prudent to shield them a bit. Particularly as they went on to lose their next 2 games and from 3-7-1 for a young team that’s a whole lot of ground to cover.

  105. hunter1909 says:

    Thinker: Yak looked all world at times.

    Literally for 3-5 second bursts. Followed by another trip to the apiary.

    And I was a big Yakupov fan.

  106. godot10 says:

    Side: I think this year in particular, they played KY because they had a pretty big lack of winger depth, and KY played well.Him being 4th in scoring for the pre-season (yawn, I know) probably piqued the Oilers curiosity and see whether he could carry the momentum into regular season.

    I also imagine (and am reading in the leaves from comments left by Chiarelli and McLellan), the Oilers want to give their talented rookies a taste of what the NHL is like. They want them to feel what the schedule is like, the pace of a NHL game, show them what areas they need to improve on, and show them what it’s like to play against and with NHL level players. They are now treating it as an internship for their chosen ones, and less like a “hey, we’re hiring you into a permanent position and we expect you to perform, so.. good luck!” like they have done in the DoD.

    So while wasting time and effort on KY, Chiarelli and McLellan let the Oilers season slip away from them in the first 10 games, by not having the guys they would have to rely on as wingers and D and the special teams ready.

    Babcock didn’t feel Marner needed a 10-game trial. They just sent him down. Tambellini didn’t feel Eberle needed a 10-game trial. He sent him down twice.

  107. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    russ99,

    The McDavid line is the carrot. Jesse has had the puck on his stick myriad times in great scoring positions but is not scoring.

    Lucic, Maroon, Draisaitl, JP and KY have spent the most time this year on McDavid’s wing.

    Here are those player’s goal rates while playing with McDavid only:

    Puljujarvi 1.48/60 (202min)
    Maroon 0.69/60 (348min)
    Draisaitl 0.67/60 (270min)
    Lucic 0.64/60 (279min)
    Yamamoto 0 (61.5min)

    So when you say:

    As I said in yesterday’s thread, Jesse will get his chances, will get on McDavid’s line, will get on the PP, but Todd just can’t put him there by default if the results aren’t coming.

    You are incorrect.

    His goal results are at twice the rate as anyone else who has played with him.

    If he needed to prove he belonged there, he did it.

  108. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    russ99:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    I don’t agree with you on many things, but I’ll fight to the death your right to say it.

    Different opinions make a blog great.

    Thanks Russ

    We disagree often (I just did actually), but neither of us ever seem to take it personally.

    I appreciate that.

  109. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde: Funny you say this; the exact reason why I use ‘goals in hockey’whenever I talk to someone who may be anti-advanced-stats metrics is because it’s what should matter the most to them.

    If you trash process oriented thinking and hold results above all, then goal metrics are argumentatively unnassailable.

    That’s why I use them when the sample is big enough.

    I get a lot of “corsi doesn’t matter”

    Can’t say that about goals.

    Well, some do when it conflict with their opinion, but that’s a different subject.

  110. hunter1909 says:

    godot10: Babcock didn’t feel Marner needed a 10-game trial. They just sent him down. Tambellini didn’t feel Eberle needed a 10-game trial. He sent him down twice.

    Tambellini doing anything positive always gives me a fuzzy feeling. Come to think of it, Tambellini never traded away anyone, so Hall/Eberle/Yakupov would all still be Oilers lol

    We’re talking Dynasty Baby!

  111. Wilde says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Awesome to have these conversations, to compare years, that’s constructive IMO…

    – Certainly there was a lot of Chia is sh%t, then a lot of “How can be Chia be so sh%t if the team does so well”?And now we be back to “Told you Chia is sh%t”

    – I don’t think I’ve ever replied to you before?My post was answering your query about “why do people have the Chia thingy” and so I gave it my best shot, as I think it gets to a lot of what ails us

    – Where did I say that you specifically said that Chia is “sh%t”, written to you?Show me where I said: “Wilde, you think Chia is sh%t”?I was capturing the sentiment of those who do, and gave my thoughts

    – Are you just trolling?

    1) The reason I brought up the different year was to capture the different reactions: If the injury excuse can be made for Chia’s roster, it can also be made for a mostly-Mactavish one.

    2) Yeah we’re never going to agree on that, you can go back and read the volumous vitriol against Chiarelli deriders here and elaewhere. It was not a question, and it was not phrased that way or with that tone.

    3) I’m glad that you weren’t painting me as another tribe, thank you for that.

    But the way you wrote that stuff certainly left it up in the air, this time in particular:

    ” So fine, assign blame for all of this today on Chia who is sh$t, because 2 years ago he traded away a good scoring winger. ”

    If you say that in reply to my comment, why should I not think you’re saying it to me?

    And that isn’t pulled out of context, becauase you referred to “blaming it all on Chia” five seperate times in your comment.

    I understand capturing the sentiment of those who do; but again it was too ambigious to tell for sure, which is why I asked.

    4) Am I trolling? No, my friend I am not. I just wanted clarification.

  112. Side says:

    hunter1909: 9 games = 11% of an NHL season.

    Oilers 2017-18 record through 1st 9 games: 3-5-1

    Hardly enough to skewer a season, but with a young team like the Oilers it might have been prudent to shield them a bit. Particularly as they went on to lose their next 2 games and from 3-7-1 for a young team that’s a whole lot of ground to cover.

    I think the issues with the Oilers this season are much bigger than KY playing 9 games. I agree, the Oilers are a young team. I would have preferred the Oilers got more depth on the wing so KY wouldn’t have had a chance to play 9 games this season. But I wouldn’t blame KY for any of the losses during the games he played.

    But lets face it, the depth sucked (still does), and KY didn’t look like he would be a liability and he was carrying over a lot of momentum into the regular season. To say that KY, based on the Oilers starting roster, didn’t deserve a 9 game trial based on his performance in the presason, I disagree with.

  113. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: We have a good idea but, at the same time, we have also seen him have games where he brings much more than our idea of what he is provides. The question is if he can bring that game on a consistent basis.It seems unlikely, however, players do mature and find consistency in their game as they develop so there is a chance.I’d like to see the player at 3C for the material portion of the games remaining.

    I’d rather see him traded at the deadline for a draft pick, and try again with someone who can actually play next summer. If he wants to sign a contract for under a million next summer like Gagner did in Columbus, I would consider it.

  114. Bag of Pucks says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – It’s a good conversation to have…

    – I am a huge advocate of results matter.For sure this year, results have been brutal.

    – Last year, I think many were comfortable in a mushy middle, where they wish Hall garnered more, but have a RHD that was playing top-line minutes, and moved everyone down.Some thought it was fair deal, some thought there should have been more, but accepted that at least in some part trading offence for defence helped out a lot

    – So this year, Larsson is injured (and Hall isn’t), and Hall is lighting it up, and Larsson been on IR.

    – So there is always a Chia is sh$t camp, and they trot this Hall vs. Larsson narrative.

    – Last year we were a healthy team, with few injuries, and good goaltending, and we made progress.

    – This year, we have had some injuries: the D went from a strength to weakness with 2 of top-4 out/injured, very poor G, awful luck and a lot of hurt

    – So fine, assign blame for all of this today on Chia who is sh$t, because 2 years ago he traded away a good scoring winger.

    – There are really about 5 groups to assign blame to for this season:

    1) The coach (for his bad systems, and his special teams)
    2) The GM (because he’s sh%t, and the roster is so much worse than last year)
    3) The players (because they are learning, being hard on themselves, trying too much, etc)
    4) The Goalies (becaues they suck, or because the systems suck)
    5) Variance (i.e. sh%t happens)

    – We all have different views on the different factors.But it’s tiring to read the same “Chia is sh%t”, the team sucks, and ignore everything else and assign him all the blame

    – The 5 groups above: no one can “prove” which amount to assign to each factor (although I know that the variance is at least measurable)

    – The cause and effect and the interaction of all 5 though, that’s the meat of opining for this terrible state we are in, and awful results…

    – Putting it all on Chia is facile, and emotional, and not complete, IMO.A healthy Sek, and they should win game 7, and measure up nicely vs both Nashville and Pitts.

    – Th stretches of really good games this year, where we impose our will: that’s not luck IMO: it’s a learning curve to get there all the time: a learning curve by players, and coaching staff who coaches them up.

    – Of course, Chia would still be sh%t…

    Excellent post. The biggest issue with this narrative so often is it starts with ‘Chiarelli is shit’ as the conclusion and then cherry picks data to support that which is the complete opposite of what the scientific method is. Yes, you have to pick a hypothesis to prove or disprove as your starting point, but it doesn’t give you the right to summarily ignore all of the data inconvenient to your hypothesis.

    This is why their chastising of other people’s biases or lack of intellectual rigor is laughable hypocrisy. Their blind spots are a mile wide and they’re lecturing others on not seeing the forest for the trees.

    Did Chiarelli tell Klefbom, Larsson, Benning, Draisaitl, Kassian, Maroon, etc. to have poor seasons? Did Chia tell Talbot to completely regress from Top 10 tender to utter mediocrity? Did Pete tell TMac to serve up historically bad PK systems? Did he tell this team collectively to shoot and pass the puck as if they were first year bantams?

    Of course, their answer to all of this is a GM should have backup depth on top of backup depth on top of backup depth in case one or all of the players play poorly. Nevermind that this utopian thinking ignores the realities of both the salary cap system and the procurement issues from a DoD, can you name a single team that would excel if over half their lineup including the vast majority of their top performers all regressed in the same season? Hmm, could coaching possibly be a factor in this mass performance regression rather than myopically blaming the GM?

    The saddest part is it all seems to start with this OCD obsession over the Taylor Hall trade. There’s liking a player and then there’s acting like you’re one of the guys from ‘There’s Something About Mary.’ When did Taylor Hall become the second coming of the ‘Curse of the Bambino?’

  115. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    russ99,

    The McDavid line is the carrot. Jesse has had the puck on his stick myriad times in great scoring positions but is not scoring.

    Puljujarvi 1.48/60 (202min) – 5 goals
    Maroon 0.69/60 (348min) – 4 goals
    Draisaitl 0.67/60 (270min) – 3 gaols
    Lucic 0.64/60 (279min) – 3 goals
    Yamamoto 0 (61.5min) – 3 goals

    So when you say:

    As I said in yesterday’s thread, Jesse will get his chances, will get on McDavid’s line, will get on the PP, but Todd just can’t put him there by default if the results aren’t coming.

    You are incorrect.

    – He’s actually not incorrect: I’m not sure I’d hang my hat on 1 goals difference, on really small sample sizes….

    – But you are convinced, that based on this measure, and just one more shot going in here and there, over 10-15 games that Russ is for sure incorrect, based on this?

  116. godot10 says:

    russ99:
    Re: Jesse on the McDavid line:

    The McDavid line is the carrot. Jesse has had the puck on his stick myriad times in great scoring positions but is not scoring.

    You can’t gift him McDavid line time in the name of development, especially when we can’t score a goal and the McDavid – Draisaitl pair is most predictable way to do that.

    As I said in yesterday’s thread, Jesse will get his chances, will get on McDavid’s line, will get on the PP, but Todd just can’t put him there by default if the results aren’t coming.

    I think Jesse just might be scoring goals at a higher rate per game than any other winger on the Oilers.

  117. thepeetso says:

    hunter1909:

    I guess my point is, why do the Oilers routinely play rookies for 9 games, as if it’s an entitlement?

    What is the GM(s) keeps letting actual talented NHL players who produce leave town due to stupid trades, bad trades, buyouts and other nonsense, and then said GM doesn’t replace with equal talent for $1000?

  118. hunter1909 says:

    Side: But I wouldn’t blame KY for any of the losses during the games he played.

    I’m not blaming a teenaged kid for the failure of Katz’s dream team.

    I’m looking to see who thought playing him was a good idea, so I can inform security exactly who they are to escort out of the building, never to return.

  119. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Did Chiarelli tell Klefbom, Draisaitl, Kassian, Maroon, etc. to have poor seasons? Did Chia tell Talbot to completely regress from Top 10 tender to utter mediocrity? Did Pete tell TMac to serve up historically bad PK systems? Did he tell this team collectively to shoot and pass the puck as if they were first year bantams?

    All teams go through these things.

    Stronger rosters can weather it better than weaker ones.

    Chiarelli has weakened the roster.

    Even you have agreed with that.

    Also,

    Having players like Hall, who can overcome terrible rosters and post +50% GF vs the best with little help not only helps weather these things, but helps teams win while these things are going on.

    The weakened roster and loss of a an elite player are all on Chiarelli.

    That is why, with my dying breath I will say “why did he trade Hall and rob us fans of the elite team we hoped we’d get after wading through 10 years of shit?”

    Its not a dead horse.

    The consequences of his decisions are on the ice every other day for 8 months.

  120. Side says:

    godot10: So while wasting time and effort on KY, Chiarelli and McLellan let the Oilers season slip away from them in the first 10 games, by not having the guys they would have to rely on as wingers and D and the special teams ready.

    Babcock didn’t feel Marner needed a 10-game trial.They just sent him down.Tambellini didn’t feel Eberle needed a 10-game trial.He sent him down twice.

    Who are the wingers the Oilers should have relied on at the start of the season? Because KY has been down in the minors for awhile now and the wingers on the Oilers now aren’t getting the job done, and haven’t been getting the job done all season.

    You seem to be confused. I’m not defending the Oilers for not having enough winger depth and playing KY instead of getting more proven wingers. I’m defending KY, the player, because I felt that his performance was good enough to make the Oilers roster (a roster which should have had more winger depth so KY couldn’t make the team unless he was 100% ready).

  121. Snowman says:

    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

  122. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – He’s actually not incorrect: I’m not sure I’d hang my hat on 1 goals difference, on really small sample sizes….

    – But you are convinced, that based on this measure, and just one more shot going in here and there, over 10-15 games that Russ is for sure incorrect, based on this?

    Your rebuttal states that the amount of time spent with McDavid doesn’t matter, its only the goal total.

    Taken to an extreme that is consistent with your posit you are saying that a player who scores 5 goals in 200 minutes with McDavid is equal to a player who scores 5 goals in 600 minutes with McDavid.

    That is not correct.

    How often you score is the most important thing.

    If all TOI samples are equal, the most frequent scorer will have the most goals.

    These samples are small, but JP is waaaaay out in front and I’d expect it to continue, but probably not at the “double” pace.

  123. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Snowman: ey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it.

    Take it!!!!

    You might surprise yourself.

    Need more info on how you’re not qualified and what the job entails to give better advice on how not to crash and burn.

  124. Lowetide says:

    Snowman:
    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

    They hired you for a reason, do you have anyone in the industry who could guide/mentor? I understand the idea of not biting off more than you can chew (and the stress involved). I also know opportunities sometimes don’t come around twice.

  125. Jethro Tull says:

    Snowman:
    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

    Are lives/safety involved? If not, go for it. And study. And it’s their HR’s fault.

    May I ask the job title? Don’t need any other details.

    And welcome to the blog, Mr Trump.

  126. Side says:

    hunter1909: I’m not blaming a teenaged kid for the failure of Katz’s dream team.

    I’m looking to see who thought playing him was a good idea, so I can inform security exactly who they are to escort out of the building, never to return.

    Well lets put it this way.

    KY had 3 points in 9 games.

    The Oilers would kill for that kind of production from a winger right about now.

  127. hunter1909 says:

    Snowman:
    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

    Keep your mouth shut as best as you can; unless you want everyone to know how little you know now.

    Take the job. You have nothing to lose. The risk is 90% theirs. And if it works out for you, you’ve accomplished something major in life.

  128. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Very apropos of the thread:

    A hilarious tweet by Hall responding to Seravalli

    https://twitter.com/LedgerSko/status/951221624916889602

  129. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Wilde,

    – Cool: you asked a question about Chia, and I gave my opinion. I never intended it to be read “Wilde thinks Chia is sh$t”, that’s why I used words like: “many”, or “they, or we all have different opinions, or no one, etc…

    – Just not sure how you would read that as pointed to you, when you asked a good question I thought, that you prefaced with “this isn’t directed at you kinger”: I’ll try better to reduce ambiguity when responding.

    – I can basically put everyone who posts here into 1 of the 5 categories I sited, for what ails this team:

    1) GM
    2) Coach
    3) Players
    4) Goalie
    5) Variance

    – I think that the mileage varies based on our bias as to what to assign in terms of contributory weighting on 1-5. But for sure it’s not anywhere close to 100% on 1 (GM is sh%t)

  130. Bag of Pucks says:

    It’s ok to not like Chiarelli. Freedom of choice, thought, expression, etc.

    But if you consistently try to drive a narrative that insists Peter Chiarelli is the sole reason for this organizations’ woes, and that the coaches, players, scouts, etc. do not also hold any accountability for this disappointing season, than you are essentially just a ‘finger pointer’ imo which is the cyber equivalent of one hand clapping.

    When a team/organization is this bad, everybody needs to get better. Thinking that firing one man will solve all these problems is the ‘smartest man in the room thinking’ that got this team in this trouble in the first place.

  131. thepeetso says:

    Snowman:
    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

    Do it.

    You will never forgive yourself if you don’t. Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part.

    Probably.

    Also now I can picture you as Costanza in the Yankees offices.

  132. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Geez – the Oilers need to get better next year.When they are bad there are simply too many posts in these threads.I can’t keep up and stay engaged.I do like 35 minutes of work and come back to dozens and dozens of posts – I’m missing stuff and OriginalPouzar does like to miss stuff.

    It might be more realistic to quit my job than have the Oilers be better mind you….

    Lol I feel the same way. Had a couple of classes and checking in between and I miss everything not even including whatever was deleted earlier.

  133. OmJo says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    It’s your profile picture.

  134. Bag of Pucks says:

    Snowman,

    All my best career moves were as a result of landing a job I was allegedly ‘underqualified’ for and then working like hell to accelerate the learning curve or just getting in and then finding out that I was actually more qualified than I thought and was just underrating my abilities.

    Congrats and well done. Nothing like a challenge to invigorate the soul : )

  135. Cassandra says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    This post is a farcical description of what actually happens.

    No one decided to hate Chiarelli and then cherry picked reasons to hate him. Rather ….

    1) Chiarelli does something impossibly stupid.
    2) Hatred ensues.

    After repeated iterations of this, the phenomenon evolved.

    1) Decision on offseason move is pending (i.e. we don’t know what is going to happen)
    2) Person predicts Chiarelli will do something stupid (trade Eberle for Strome, give Draistatl 8.5 million dollars).
    3) Chiarelli indeed does something stupid.

    Your description is factually inaccurate. I, for one, can’t be cherry picking reasons after the fact for hating Chiarelli because I keep criticizing Chiarelli for things before he does them (see above). Indeed, this is why I changed my name to Cassandra.

    If you are going to have an opinion on this meta-discourse you might as well have an opinion that gets the temporal sequence of cause and effect correct.

    I don’t hate Chiarelli’s moves because he made them. I hate them first, then he makes them. That is the curse.

  136. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Your rebuttal states that the amount of time spent with McDavid doesn’t matter, its only the goal total. – No i’m pointing out that on your small samples: we are talking about the difference of a goal. Your metric suggests huge differences, and over a large sample it would be, but in this smaple it’s a goal?

    Taken to an extreme that is consistent with your posit you are saying that a player who scores 5 goals in 200 minutes with McDavid is equal to a player who scores 5 goals in 600 minutes with McDavid. – Yes taken to an extreme: but that would not be consistent with my point that its a small sample size, and I’m translating intp actual goals what those figures mean

    That is not correct.

    How often you score is the most important thing. – For sure: and if one of those guys scored 2 more goals, ina small smaple, they’d be rocking it…

    If all TOI samples are equal, the most frequent scorer will have the most goals. – but your samples aren’t that’s the point

    These samples are small, but JP is waaaaay out in front and I’d expect it to continue, but probably not at the “double” pace. – its’ fine to have the opinon that you expect it to continue, but that’s different than being categoric. It’s a good trend on a small sample size. Russ has an opinion: your not “correct” and he’s wrong, based on being Waaaay out front with 1 goal, over a few more games.

    I hope your right, and that’s a good piece of inofmration, I’m just breaking down your stats to give more colour. I’m not as resolute as you are based on that

  137. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Thinker: What was their other option? Khaira probably, who projected to a 4line winger at most at that time. I’m still not a huge McPhee supporter. I think he left a lot of value out there at the expansion draft.

    I don’t know about value but … he sure as shit didn’t leave any wins out there.

  138. OmJo says:

    Wilde: 1) I don’t think a mushy middle is what I was reading, I saw a lot of teasing and lambasting of Chia criticisers at every turn, especially when Larsson or Lucic did something notable, or Hall got injured. Or the games we played against the Devils. Re read those threads, yikes.

    Case in point:

    Adam Larsson’s Oilers prevail in game Taylor Hall’s never could have

    That beautiful headline brought to you by the great Mark Spector.

    And the trade?

    Question: Who has more playoff goals in an Oilers uniform?

    Answer: You have to get to the playoffs to score a playoff goal.

    Journalism, according to Sportsnet.

  139. Cassandra says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Very apropos of the thread:

    A hilarious tweet by Hall responding to Seravalli

    https://twitter.com/LedgerSko/status/951221624916889602

    Hall is the absolute best.

  140. Bag of Pucks says:

    Cassandra:
    Bag of Pucks,

    This post is a farcical description of what actually happens.

    No one decided to hate Chiarelli and then cherry picked reasons to hate him.Rather ….

    1) Chiarelli does something impossibly stupid.
    2) Hatred ensues.

    After repeated iterations of this, the phenomenon evolved.

    1) Decision on offseason move is pending (i.e. we don’t know what is going to happen)
    2) Person predicts Chiarelli will do something stupid (trade Eberle for Strome, give Draistatl 8.5 million dollars).
    3) Chiarelli indeed does something stupid.

    Your description is factually inaccurate.I, for one, can’t be cherry picking reasons after the fact for hating Chiarelli because I keep criticizing Chiarelli for things before he does them (see above).Indeed, this is why I changed my name to Cassandra.

    If you are going to have an opinion on this meta-discourse you might as well have an opinion that gets the temporal sequence of cause and effect correct.

    I don’t hate Chiarelli’s moves because he made them. I hate them first, then he makes them.That is the curse.

    I love the part where you ignore my largest point which is how you consistently & summarily dismiss evidence that’s not convenient to your hypothesis. The fact you choose to ignore that point is pretty delicious irony.

  141. Wilde says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    I’m glad we’re sorted then, but I’m still curious as to who thinks it’s 100% Chiarelli. I can’t think of anyone that I know of that only criticises Chiarelli, making mention of nothing else. Not that it matters that much, but still I usually see the same people take runs at McLellan too, at the very least.

    I would say there’s also overlap in all five categories:

    McLellan not playing the backup could be framed as Chia not getting a backup

    Chia not getting RW cover could be framed as Todd just not being able to split up the centres

    Goaltending performance could be affected by lack up backup, which could be GM or coach or boths fault

    Players “lost confidence” could be prevented by getting more talent in the lineup to drive better shooting percentages

    GM getting better PK personnel could prevent the coaches system from looking as poor as it does

    And I imagine that people are all over the place in how they weight each cause, which is why it’s so so so so important that we don’t dress peoples arguments down.

    The objective in an argument should be to see if the *strongest logical version* of an opinion can withstand criticism.

    So putting people in a “chia sucks” camp and boiling their opinion down to something so simple isn’t very productive in my opinion

  142. Snowman says:

    Thanks for the advice everybody. I appreciate it very much.

    If I’m homeless and unemployed in a couple months I’m blaming you bastards. 😉

    For those of you wondering, its a corporate financial consultant type gig. I’m an accountant out of public practice by trade (see: structure, routine) and the job is very much not structured or routine.

    I’ll keep you posted on how my first meeting with Mr. Steinbrenner goes.

  143. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Snowman,

    – I can recall over the years some great insight you’ve had, and I know a little about your background, and education: as long as you didn’t lie: i.e.: “I know how to drive an 18-wheeler”, when you don’t have a driver’s licence!

    – You have the accounting/math background, and everyone has to step up. Just be humble, work hard, listen, don’t “pretend” and they will give you rope.

    – But if you are driving an 18-wheeler, let me know in which town, so I steer clear!

  144. Side says:

    Snowman:
    Thanks for the advice everybody. I appreciate it very much.

    If I’m homeless and unemployed in a couple months I’m blaming you bastards.

    Just make it out of the probationary period and you’re golden!

  145. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Snowman:
    Hey fellas sorry to jack the thread here but I threw my name into the hat for a job I’m definitely not qualified for and got it. It’s a pretty cool job at a very well known company so I’m definitely interested. Anyone have any advice to help me not crash and burn? Or would you guys recommend not taking it?

    Let me stress. Very likely not qualified. Would definitely be a learn on the job adventure. Big stretch professionally.

    Thoughts?

    Take the job. Never pass up an opportunity. Am assuming a fairly good sized company. Find the smartest senior guys there fast and ask a lot of questions if you don’t know something or you have run into a wall with the task assigned. Most smart guys are very willing to help people who are trying hard and are smart enough to ask for help when they are unsure how next to proceed. Kind of an ego trip for them. Do a lot of listening and learning, leave the talking for later. Worked very well for me.

  146. OmJo says:

    russ99:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    I don’t agree with you on many things, but I’ll fight to the death your right to say it.

    Different opinions make a blog great.

    One of the reasons I left the OMB after posting there since I can even remember.

  147. Jethro Tull says:

    OmJo: Case in point:

    Adam Larsson’s Oilers prevail in game Taylor Hall’s never could have

    That beautiful headline brought to you by the great Mark Spector.

    And the trade?


    Question: Who has more playoff goals in an Oilers uniform?

    Answer: You have to get to the playoffs to score a playoff goal.

    Journalism, according to Sportsnet.

    Well, you know, you have to win the Stanley Cup to get a Stanley Cup ring, and Ovechkin hasn’t, so that’s why he sucks.

    List of pylons with Cup rings includes:

    Mike Commodore
    Ben Eager
    Dan Carcillo
    Colin Fraser
    Etc.

    Using the irrefutable logic provided, these players are better than Ovey, and by the default of Hall never playing a playoff game, better than him.

  148. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – It’s a good conversation to have…

    – I am a huge advocate of results matter.For sure this year, results have been brutal.

    – Last year, I think many were comfortable in a mushy middle, where they wish Hall garnered more, but have a RHD that was playing top-line minutes, and moved everyone down.Some thought it was fair deal, some thought there should have been more, but accepted that at least in some part trading offence for defence helped out a lot

    – So this year, Larsson is injured (and Hall isn’t), and Hall is lighting it up, and Larsson been on IR.

    – So there is always a Chia is sh$t camp, and they trot this Hall vs. Larsson narrative.

    – Last year we were a healthy team, with few injuries, and good goaltending, and we made progress.

    – This year, we have had some injuries: the D went from a strength to weakness with 2 of top-4 out/injured, very poor G, awful luck and a lot of hurt

    – So fine, assign blame for all of this today on Chia who is sh$t, because 2 years ago he traded away a good scoring winger.

    – There are really about 5 groups to assign blame to for this season:

    1) The coach (for his bad systems, and his special teams)
    2) The GM (because he’s sh%t, and the roster is so much worse than last year)
    3) The players (because they are learning, being hard on themselves, trying too much, etc)
    4) The Goalies (becaues they suck, or because the systems suck)
    5) Variance (i.e. sh%t happens)

    – We all have different views on the different factors.But it’s tiring to read the same “Chia is sh%t”, the team sucks, and ignore everything else and assign him all the blame

    – The 5 groups above: no one can “prove” which amount to assign to each factor (although I know that the variance is at least measurable)

    – The cause and effect and the interaction of all 5 though, that’s the meat of opining for this terrible state we are in, and awful results…

    – Putting it all on Chia is facile, and emotional, and not complete, IMO.A healthy Sek, and they should win game 7, and measure up nicely vs both Nashville and Pitts.

    – Of course, Chia would still be sh%t…

    I think you’re polarizing things here. The majority of the crowd on this chat thread is quite reasonable and takes evidence to revise an ever-evolving opinion. There isn’t a fire-PC-I-hate-him-and-miss-Taytay crowd. For that , go to ON.

    1. If you are results oriented, it’s reasonable to expect a team to improve from year-to-year. This team hasn’t improved, injuries aside. The team is weaker or the same at every position.

    2. As time marches on, it becomes more clear that PC’s trades bled serious value. It’s not the whole story, I know, we won’t have that until the end of everyone’s career.

    3. The overall results of the business are on the head of the business. In this situation that’s the GM-POH.

    This isn’t running out with torches and pitchforks. It’s a reasonable assessment of PC’s reign. It hasn’t been acceptable and merits criticism.

  149. exoilinxs says:

    I would like to see Pulujarvi on the PP in the slot once they enter the zone. He has quick hands and his long arms would make him a handful. Teach him to just stand in the goalies face and have McD and Draisatil work the wings. Before he learns the finesse part of a wingers obligation on the PP it would sure be nice to see him play the role of a bull in a China shop in front. Why not “evaluate” as the season is a wash anyways.

  150. commonfan29 says:

    The fact that they threw away Yak AFTER trading Hall will never stop angering me.

    Before thinking about trading Hall, they should have been 100% convinced that they could salvage Yak into something close to a replacement for him.

    Any decently-run team would have removed giving up on Yak as an option going forward the minute the trade went down.

    These clowns didn’t. They didn’t do a lot of things, and now we’re here.

  151. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    As per Friedman:

    Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on an Anthony Duclair deal

  152. OmJo says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Your rebuttal states that the amount of time spent with McDavid doesn’t matter, its only the goal total.

    Taken to an extreme that is consistent with your posit you are saying that a player who scores 5 goals in 200 minutes with McDavid is equal to a player who scores 5 goals in 600 minutes with McDavid.

    That is not correct.

    How often you score is the most important thing.

    If all TOI samples are equal, the most frequent scorer will have the most goals.

    These samples are small, but JP is waaaaay out in front and I’d expect it to continue, but probably not at the “double” pace.

    If JP could finish more McDavid chances he’d probably be at quadruple pace right now.

    It’ll come with time. Can’t single out one player for not scoring when the entire team can’t score more than once a game.

  153. Melvis says:

    Katz is a Gemini. The Oilers are Gemini. That’s a four headed monster. There are more Geminis’ doing perp time for fraud than any other sign.

    Chia is a Leo. They get along with the Geminis. TMac is a Libra. He also gets along with everybody.

    Nicholson gets along with everybody. Ergo…nobody is getting canned.

    I’ll have the crab bisque.

    No, I’m not a Cancer, although there are more Cancer hoes than any other sign.

    I used to be more of a hound. Now I’m scared shitless of a civil suit brought out by someone I boinked 30 years ago and dumped – because she boiled my pet rabbit. Hell hath no fury…

    Speaking of which, Rabbit falls under the Chinese zodiac. They also taste pretty good.

    Now I hope I don’t get timed out for talking out my ass, but I believe this post is materially relevant.

  154. Jethro Tull says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    As per Friedman:

    Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on an Anthony Duclair deal

    Seabrook? Joking aside, ARI has been known to take shitty contracts….and they’re playing with house money.

  155. Jethro Tull says:

    Melvis: Speaking of which, Rabbit falls under the Chinese zodiac. They also taste pretty good.

    Are they cheaper from a butcher or a pet shop?

  156. Durag says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    As per Friedman:

    Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on an Anthony Duclair deal

    Damn. On closer inspection that’s Chicago/Arizona, not CHIARIZ which I hoped was Friedman’s cool nickname for Chiarelli.

  157. Melvis says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Doesn’t matter. Get a male and a female and pretty soon you’ll be eating for free. So I’m told.

  158. Wilde says:

    It’s Panik for Duclair, which is more than I thought based on the way the wind was blowing.

    Didn’t expect a full time NHLer to go the other way after the price plummeting verbal.

    Edit: Panik was making 2.8 for 2 years. That’d be why.

  159. Material pocession says:

    Wilde:
    Material pocession,

    Yes, Hall is closer to Kucherov than most think.

    Hall’s G/60 and A1/60 this year are 1.2, and 1.6.

    Kucherov is reversed, 1.8 and 1.3

    And they have the same oiSH%.

    Kucherov is shooting 18% himself though, which is high even with the best snapshot in the NHL. Give him his career 15%, and he’s closer to 1.6G/60.

    Which puts them right beside eachother in primary points per hour.

    Hall is doing that with a rookie centreman and a D core reminiscent of our 2015 unit, so I think the analogy is fair there too.

    And what if you increase that sample size beyond this year? Do a 2 or 3 year comparison because I can’t at the moment.

  160. Pouzar says:

    Wilde:
    It’s Panik for Duclair, which is more than I thought based on the way the wind was blowing.

    Didn’t expect a full time NHLer to go the other way after the price plummeting verbal.

    Waiting for the “weeks in the making” tweet.

  161. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    It’s ok to not like Chiarelli. Freedom of choice, thought, expression, etc.

    But if you consistently try to drive a narrative that insists Peter Chiarelli is the sole reason for this organizations’ woes, and that the coaches, players, scouts, etc. do not also hold any accountability for this disappointing season, than you are essentially just a ‘finger pointer’ imo which is the cyber equivalent of one hand clapping.

    When a team/organization is this bad, everybody needs to get better. Thinking that firing one man will solve all these problems is the ‘smartest man in the room thinking’ that got this team in this trouble in the first place.

    Replace Chiarelli with Hall. Lol.

    What got this team in this trouble was the ‘smartest man in the room’ giving away assets for pennies on the dollar and giving away bad contracts to hamstring this team both in terms of cap and roster decisions.

  162. JimmyV1965 says:

    OilClog: Clearly I was over exaggerating his size and frame, I like humour with my truths. Eberle was bigger and better at his age and was sent back before the season began… madness.

    I’m not saying that in any way shape or form, I love skill and talent, and playing them when they’re actually ready for it. He was not ready for it in any way shape or form. They’ve hindered his growth this season and it’s inexcusable.

    What does it tell Jesse? Kid work your ass off, get acclimated, and get sent down for a kid that’s far less ready then you are because he’s the new toy. It’s ridiculous.

    JP’s finer details, and game were far more NHL ready in the preseason then the undersized kid that needed far more junior time. But everyone was stuck with puppy dog eyes, while there were a few banging their heads off their desks wondering why this kid was not sent down.

    it’s an amazing opening chapter in terrible decision making this season, there should be no surprise the special teams, goaltending or anything else is where it’s at when it’s clear that this organization no matter who is the head is constantly doing the same thing in one way or another.

    I handle the madness with comedy because after that decade of darkness we shouldn’t be here and there’s really nothing left to due but laugh in madness.

    I’m not saying Yammer should have stayed with the big club for even one game He should have been sent down as soon as the season started, regardless of what he did in training camp, but he was one of our best players in preseason. He was actually tied for the league lead in goals with 5. Of course it doesn’t mean much, especially for a small teenager, but he was one of our best players in preseason. I thought he outplayed JP bigtime in preseason.

  163. OmJo says:

    Snowman,

    Best of luck!

  164. Material pocession says:

    Cassandra: Who moved the goal posts?

    A) You can’t have a good GF% if you are bad defensively, unless you score at superhuman rates.Hall doesn’t gave an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players.He has an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players whilenot being bad defensively.That isn’t moving the goal posts.

    B) I specifically referenced only against numbers.

    A) You have demonstrated that he outscores the opposition when he’s on the ice. No argument there. You still have not demonstrated his amazing defensive ability using GF%.

    B) His against numbers don’t tell anything about him specifically. Unless you are saying that certain players, like Kris Russell for example, have some magical ability to affect GA%. I didn’t think so.

  165. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Cassandra: I like the idea of putting players in category.I vote for a 7 pt scale (a 5pt scale + 2 extra for outliers).

    Someting like

    7-Outlier–McDavid, Kucherov, Hedman, Karlsson before injury
    6-Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Subban, Draisatl (maybe)
    5-RNH,Eberle,
    4-Maroon,
    3-Strome (maybe),
    2-Kassian,
    1-Replacement and below (Gryba)

    Where do you put the D other than the superstars?Are Larsson and Tanev 4 or 5?If they are 5, what does a 4 D look like?

    I do it much differently.

    I rate Dmen by offensive contributions and by defensive contributions.

    Larsson rated quite high on defensive scale, but very low on the offensive scale.

    His results went Topsy turvy in EDM, mostly due to playing with Klef I think, so now he’s worse defensively and better offensively.

    When the trade happened I had Vlasic, Tanev, Hjarlmasson and a couple others in the top tier of the D category and Larsson was right behind that group.

  166. OmJo says:

    commonfan29,

    Hall-Draisaitl-Yakupov were looking good late in the season.

    Every time Yakupov has been played with skilled players, he’s produced on his respective team.

    Then he has a bad game or two, get’s demoted midway through the third game, and scratched after not scoring on the 4th line while playing 7 minutes a game for the next 10 games and he’s never heard from again, minus a few 4th line stints.

    But he’s so bad none of his teams ever decide to waive him.

    I dunno.

  167. OmJo says:

    Melvis,

    I’m a Gemini. I can confirm.

    Just kidding. I’m not a fraud. Or maybe I’m a fraud to myself…

    Hm.

  168. Admiral Ackbar says:

    commonfan29:
    The fact that they threw away Yak AFTER trading Hall will never stop angering me.

    Before thinking about trading Hall, they should have been 100% convinced that they could salvage Yak into something close to a replacement for him.

    Any decently-run team would have removed giving up on Yak as an option going forward the minute the trade went down.

    These clowns didn’t. They didn’t do a lot of things, and now we’re here.

    Can Nail Yakupov even be compared to Taylor Hall? I actually like Yak a lot more than I like Hall, but in a skill/value conversation, is this even coherent? Yak has never proven to be an effective NHL hockey player on a half-decent team. He’s struggled to stay in the lineup of other teams and was a possession black hole when he played on bad Oiler teams. While I can appreciate the principle of coaching a player to his best possible potential, Yak is an honest lost cause. N’est-ce pas?

  169. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: Hard target search: The Oilers at the trade deadline

    https://theathletic.com/207313/2018/01/10/lowetide-hard-target-search-the-trade-deadline/

  170. OmJo says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    As per Friedman:

    Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on an Anthony Duclair deal

    It’s a trap… to get Chiarelli to offer Nuge for Duclair, 1 for 1.

    Durag: Damn. On closer inspection that’s Chicago/Arizona, notCHIARIZ which I hoped was Friedman’s cool nickname for Chiarelli.

    LMAO!

  171. OmJo says:

    Material pocession,

    The best defense is a good offense?

  172. OriginalPouzar says:

    Side: Subscribe to our RSS FeedFollow us on Twitter

    HomeContact

    He didn’t singlehandedly lose games but he completely stiffed McDavid’s offence, if I remember correctly.

  173. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    But if you consistently try to drive a narrative that insists Peter Chiarelli is the sole reason for this organizations’ woes, and that the coaches, players, scouts, etc. do not also hold any accountability for this disappointing season, than you are essentially just a ‘finger pointer’ imo which is the cyber equivalent of one hand clapping.

    No one thinks or says this.

    Chiarelli has made the largest mistakes and therefore is the largest target, but on one hangs it all on him.

  174. OmJo says:

    Admiral Ackbar,

    Yak is the only player in the league who would get demoted and then eventually healthy scratched while scoring 7 goals in (then) 20 games and being a plus player to boot.

    He must be a real dick in the locker room.

  175. Wilde says:

    Material pocession: And what if you increase that sample size beyond this year?Do a 2 or 3 year comparison because I can’t at the moment.

    Sure, I can do other years too, I just thought this year was fair because they’re both having great seasons, leading their teams to high in the standings, and the most recent is usually the most relevant.

    Hall 15/16:
    1.0G/60
    1.1 A1/60

    Kuch 15/16:
    0.9G/60
    0.6A1/60

    Hall 16/17:
    0.9G/60
    0.9A1/60

    Kuch 16/17:
    1.0G/60
    0.8A1/60

  176. Side says:

    OriginalPouzar: He didn’t singlehandedly lose games but he completely stiffed McDavid’s offence, if I remember correctly.

    I remember KY getting good chances from McDavid and not being able to cash.

    But I don’t know if that’s a much different story from pretty much any Oilers winger that plays with McDavid this year.

  177. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OmJo:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    It’s your profile picture.

    You might be right.

    I first used it in a poker forum in 2002, back when I played a lot.

    When I met up with a bunch of guys (some of who have won WSOP brackets and WTP tourneys since) from the forums in Vegas for the WSOP I used to get:

    “You look nothing like your avatar. I always read your posts like my grandpa is giving me shit”

    Or similar.

    I also been told that I write in an “authoritative voice” even when giving opinion so I come across as a knowitall

  178. thehop says:

    Thinker,

    I was thinking the same thing and questioning this openly yesterday.

    Are you Peter Chiarelli and are you trying to save your job by being overly optimistic about an increasingly pessimistic hockey club?

    Yesterday I thought he was Katz but the more I read the more I think he may I fact be ChiaputZ

  179. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Pointing out raw goal volume is fair, but the original post indicated that he hadn’t earned it and I am of the opinion he has.

    If he keeps that number above 1/60 he should never not be on that line as no one has kept it over 1 so far in 3 years.

  180. Melvis says:

    OmJo,

    I’m sort of a Taurus. Historically, there have been more of those on death row than any other other sign. I’m innocent, but don’t piss me off;-)

  181. godot10 says:

    commonfan29:
    The fact that they threw away Yak AFTER trading Hall will never stop angering me.

    Before thinking about trading Hall, they should have been 100% convinced that they could salvage Yak into something close to a replacement for him.

    Any decently-run team would have removed giving up on Yak as an option going forward the minute the trade went down.

    These clowns didn’t. They didn’t do a lot of things, and now we’re here.

    They traded away Yakupov for the cap space to sign Russell to a one year deal.

    They traded away Eberle for the cap space to sign Russell to a four year deal.

    Kris Russell, the gift that keeps on giving! -)

  182. TheWholeLoafIsToast says:

    After weeks of popping in time to time, reading this blog; Pete Chiarelli writes his resignation letter to Katz… but in one last EPIC & BOLD act of defiance, trades Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson and the 2018 1st Rd pick to New Jersey for Taylor Hall. McDavid and Nurse are packaged to Calgary for Monahan and Hamilton. Brent Seabrook is aquired for future considerations.
    Chia calls a news conference, where he strips down from his tracksuit, moons the cameras and exclaims loudly; Oilers fans can kiss my a$$!

    Things return to normal afterwards, Hall leads the Oilers to 7 straight 9th place in the Western Conference seasons. But fans FINALLY are HAPPY that the prodigal son is home. McDavid wins Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup in Calgary, life goes on. 😉

  183. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Snowman,

    All my best career moves were as a result of landing a job I was allegedly ‘underqualified’ for and then working like hell to accelerate the learning curve or just getting in and then finding out that I was actually more qualified than I thought and was just underrating my abilities.

    Congrats and well done. Nothing like a challenge to invigorate the soul : )

    I read a lot of books by people I admire and have a few really successful friends.

    An over riding theme is :

    “Never under estimate the amount of influence luck plays in your success”

    I’ve fallen ass backwards into good luck all my life as well.

    I’d put “landing a job above your ability” as partly luck.

    Agreed that he should take it and go like hell.

    A good quote, not sure who it’s from (might be my Dad) “Luck favours the prepared mind”

  184. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde: Historically

    I’m not at a PC where I can do it, but results in same age year are better for comparisons.

  185. Melvis says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Yeah, but what’s your sign man?

  186. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Material pocession: No I want to have an honest discussion about Hall’s defensive ability without moving the goal posts.

    The opposing team gets a monsterous 9.7% less of the goal share when he’s on the ice over his career compared to when he’s off the ice and you want to talk about how he does that doesn’t met your satisfaction?

  187. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Melvis:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Yeah, but what’s your sign man?

    Aquarius man.

    I thought you could tell.

  188. DBO says:

    Chicago picks up a buy low candidate in Duclair and dumps a bad Richar Panik contract the other way. Really wish we could get nice things again…… Would have been exactly the kind of player LT just mentioned on The Athletic in his last post.

  189. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Cassandra: Who moved the goal posts?

    A) You can’t have a good GF% if you are bad defensively, unless you score at superhuman rates.Hall doesn’t gave an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players.He has an excellent GF% because he scores more than other players whilenot being bad defensively.That isn’t moving the goal posts.

    B) I specifically referenced only against numbers.

    It’s like watching Sisyphus push the rock up the hill day after day and someone wants to talk about style points.

  190. Wilde says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’m not at a PC where I can do it, but results in same age year are better for comparisons.

    I’m with you on that one, but I just wanted to answer the question squarely

    Edit: Also I pulled the numbers even on mobile because I’m a gritty commenter who gets it done.

  191. Oilman99 says:

    KY against 200lb. plus NHL players showed that he is going to have a hard time being an impact player, as he is just not strong enough to be able to battle. He looked pretty pedestrian against the top teams in the juniors.

  192. Snowman says:

    Woodguy v2.0:

    A good quote, not sure who it’s from (might be my Dad) “Luck favours the prepared mind”

    That’s a good quote. Your dad sounds like a smart cat.

    Reminds me of one of the overriding themes of Chris Hadfield’s book. That guy prepared for things most people wouldn’t have even imagined could happen.

    If you haven’t read it I recommend it highly. It’s funny and interesting as hell.

  193. Melvis says:

    Woodguy

    I needed confirmation. There’s more of that in me than anything else. Needlless to say, I’m kinda fond of Aquariian dinks.

    The job related comments interested me. I’ve fallen into the best ones, and never really had to look for, or apply much for any of them. In a way, they tend to be self- created… mind over matter.

  194. LMHF#1 says:

    Chiarelli/McLellan – it takes a long time to make a move. It took us months to get a backup goalie! That’s just how it is.

    Stan Bowman – Let’s go get Anthony Duclair. *some phone calls* Done.

    Back to the head-smashing wall…

  195. Wilde says:

    Oilman99:
    KY against 200lb. plus NHL players showed that he is going to have a hard time being an impact player, as he is just not strong enough to be able to battle. He looked pretty pedestrian against the top teams in the juniors.

    Yamamoto was an impact player. He just didn’t finish.

    Same deal as first year Drai and Pulju, good numbers, shitty shooting percentage.

  196. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Hall’s unworldly results since 2011 don’t register with some people.

    They really have no idea how good he is in relation to most NHLers.

    I blame the local media mostly for deriding him and blaming him for EDM’s results.

    National media know shit about WC teams, look at the standings and decide everyone is no good.

    A guy on TSN said yesterday “RNH has to play better for EDM to compete”

    WTactualF?

    What the media says matters because people who consume it internalize it.

    That’s why I’m such a whiner about MSM on here and twitter.

    It matters.

    I posted a metric using GOALS IN HOCKEY that showed him among the elite and it gets shrugged off and they start talking about his back checking

    Its insane.

    I have this theory that top level offensive players are the only forwards that get a pass on defensive play. Kind of like Gretzky. Not that Hall is Gretzky. Players that are at the top of the hardest thing to do are different. You find line mates to help them.

    I criticized Hall a lot. Every player can get better. My gut reaction when he made his ‘stink of the season’ comment was that he was gone. It was still a monumentally poorly taken decision by whatever 10 headed beast runs the Oilers

    My line in the sand for whomever puts his head under the guillotine if there is a change is no more loss of talent. Never trade offense for defense.

  197. godot10 says:

    Wilde: Yamamoto was an impact player. He just didn’t finish.

    Same deal as first year Drai and Pulju, good numbers, shitty shooting percentage.

    Skipping steps with non-elite prospects is dumb. Yamamoto appears to have been adversely affected by the 9 game experiment. Failure has created doubt in him. He can’t score anywhere now.

    Sending him down after a “successful” training camp would have been better sending him down after a “failure” after nine games.

    It means one will have to be slower with him now. It means the AHL first, until he is killing it there.

  198. Thinker says:

    I feel like Chiarelli was given a fair shake by fans, which is saying a lot considering he flushed a draft in his first week. The McDavid cloud hid a lot. I can only imagine if we were drafting Crouse at 3OV, and MacT made the Reinhart trade. That would be a fun parallel universe to live in I think.

  199. Wilde says:

    godot10: Skipping steps with non-elite prospects is dumb.Yamamoto appears to have been adversely affected by the 9 game experiment.Failure has created doubt in him.He can’t score anywhere now.

    Sending him down after a “successful” training camp would have been better sending him down after a “failure” after nine games.

    It means one will have to be slower with him now.It means the AHL first, until he is killing it there.

    I’d start him in the AHL next season just for bonus and flexibility reasons. But I wouldn’t say he has to kill it, considering JP didn’t. Because our AHL forwards fucking suck.

    That being said, I had a post about this right after the WJC but his numbers in the WHL this year don’t scare me. He’s not on the same line since he missed a bunch of games, and his G/A splits suggest he’s either not the shooter on his new line, or he’s shooting cold. Both are of little concern in a 13 game sample.

  200. Scungilli Slushy says:

    I’m starting to think Pacciorety would be a good add. Bergevin owes the Oilers one. Take Strome, Slepy and a lower pick, Cags, OV2, a D prospect not called Bear. Maybe Mantha.

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