Betcha By Golly Wow

The Edmonton Oilers organization is having a long look at the state of the franchise this week, looking for answers and a path to Stanley. Talent bled is talent lost forever, with the question now all about getting quality back on the roster by September. This club is going to get a high draft pick, there will be some cap room on July 1, and there’s still a chance we see some significant trades before the end of this season. Don’t go too far from your favorite app, we could see some action soon.

THE ATHLETIC!

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50-MAN LIST, JANUARY 17 2018

  • Edmonton has a cluster of unrestricted and an entire flock of restricted free agents. We don’t know how this is going to turn out (if there’s a new GM be prepared for massive movements) but we might see this kind of depth chart before the draft and free agency.
  • There are 19 rfa’s, and only three are locks to return. They are Darnell Nurse, Matt Benning, Drake Caggiula.
  • There are five unrestricted players, none a lock to return. Teams tend to move on from a failed season.
  • There is so little bubbling up from the minors or junior the mind boggles. Kailer Yamamoto is the only name I can list among the outsiders who will have a good chance to make the NHL team this fall. One year from now, we might see Ethan Bear, Caleb Jones, Ryan Mantha, Tyler Benson pushing. Right now, it’s tumbleweeds tumbling through town at high noon.
  • If I’m PC, trading for useful forward prospects in their entry-level deals is a strong option, maybe more useful than draft picks at this time. A player like Jayce Hawryluk would add to the prospect roster and give the team a more attractive recall option.

BARE BONES 50

  • I think a major cull is likely, we’ll see about the defense but most of the forward group that is in free agency can safely be thrown overboard.
  • The additions to the pro roster of Jones, Bear and Mantha give the defense some balance, something we haven’t seen in some time. These young men are pushing up, and names like Lagesson and Samorukov should become more prominent in the days to come.
  • One name not on this list who may be signed is Stuart Skinner. The young man is ripping it up in Swift Current (3gp, .961) but doesn’t have to be signed until this time next season. The organization likes him a lot, but it’ll be very crowded if he signs.

MIKE LIUT IS DIRT MEAN!

  • Elliotte Friedman: “I do think Edmonton kind of thought at the time they were getting Draisaitl for 7.5 instead of 8.5. There are rumors that there was something close at the draft for 7.5 and it just didn’t happen and they had to go to the higher number.” Source

I have read this quote a few times and my guess is the Oilers were bidding against themselves for the final stretch. We’ll never know, seems clear Mike Liut (Leon’s agent) was able to convince Peter Chiarelli of an impending offer sheet. Since they are extremely rare, I’ll assume Liut was doing something as an agent 80s goalies couldn’t do as players—beat the Oilers and do real harm. Leon Draisaitl is a wonderful player, but he is no longer a value contract. That fact will have sustain through the entire Connor McDavid era in Edmonton. Was this a negotiation or a stickup?

YAMAMOTO RISING

Kailer Yamamoto is coming on now, playing well and posting crooked numbers offensively. He was pedestrian through much of the World Juniors but came alive late, with that trend continuing since his return. His splits are brighter since a 3gp, 2-4-6 boxcar run upon return to his team.

  • First 10 games: 1-8-9
  • Last 6 games: 3-6-9
  • Total: 16gp, 4-14-18

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning, lots of hockey talk beginning at 10 this morning, TSN1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Josh Lewenberg, TSN. Raptors are having a helluva year, using depth and balance.
  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey. Will youth be served? And what about those Martians?
  • Rob Vollman, NHL.com and ESPN. What if the Oilers traded Cam Talbot? Ryan Strome? Matt Benning? Putting value on some outside-the-box trade options. Plus Auston Matthews and Jack Johnson.
  • Frank Seravalli, TSN. Trade list is heating up, adding names five at a time.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

 

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324 Responses to "Betcha By Golly Wow"

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  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yes, as we know, I really like our prospect pool overall – I know its nothing special (all organizations have Rasanens and Kemps and Lagessons, etc.) but I think Chiarelli has done a great job building some depth and drafted for high end potential.

    There is a chance that neither Safin nor Maksimov make it but, if they do, I think they have some very nice potential – they are big and they can shoot.

    The main issue is no likely graduates for next year (except potentially Yamamoto). This isn’t an issue on defence (and I am happy we can slow play the “big 3” and let them peculate down in the AHL) but we have a gap or two in the top 6 next year.

    Chiarelli (or his replacement) is going to need to find a stop gap (or two) for a year – Jokinen was tried this year and failed. Vanek worked out for Vancouver. Hopefully we can find “a Vanek”.

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    Of course, there is the possibility of trading for a Hoffman or a Max P. but I worry about the acquisition cost.

    Hoffman will cost real assets – but Dorion will need to take back less actual salary than he trades away – maybe he is OK with a Slepy/Strome/Drake plus.

    Max P. I only acquire in a huge “buy low” acquisition – Nuge isn’t anywhere near the conversation.

  3. PhrankLee says:

    Old mother Hubbard, indeed. (PC)

    When she bent over Rover drove ‘er. (2017 Summer)

    Cause he had a bone of his own. (Snow)

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yamamoto has 3 straight 2 point games since coming back from Buffalo.

    A good start to the back half of the year for him and hopefully he can put up over 1.5 PPG in the 2nd half and have some confidence going in to the offseason and next summer/fall’s camps.

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  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I love me some Samorukov (granted, I’ve only seen him play a few times outside of training camp).

    He has a decent first half of the year and was coming on strong before the WJHC – he then played an increasing role as the tournament went on and has been fantastic since his return to Guelph.

    His boxcars are spiking and he’s doing it mainly at even strength as, of course, Merkly has top PP time (and there is another d-man getting PP time ahead of him).

    I look for Dimitri to blow the doors off the OHL next year.

  7. Jethro Tull says:

    I don’t know how it works for RFA contract negotiations, but in industry, negotiation for, say for instance, a construction project, all bids must receipted and transparent.

    You can’t say, “oh, you can do the job for $3million? Well, these guys can do it for $2million. But if you can do it for $1.5, then you have the job.” You actually have to prove you have that $2mill bid.

    I don’t know if this is a case of immoral isn’t the same as illegal, but the only logical course of action should have been: “OK, let’s see the offer sheet.”

    If it was $8.5, well seeing as you were willing to go to this anyways, you match. A kid that just scored 77pts on Connor’s wing and went into a successful PO run isn’t signing somewhere else.

    And if the sheet was $9, well, I think the fans would understand losing him over a couple of million too much in the long run.

    But if there is a GM change, this contract could get Drai traded.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    Skinner had an up and down first half of the season – which was too bad as he did have an outside shot of making Team Canada.

    Since the trade to Swift Current, as LT mentions, he has been superb for 3 game – before his win last night (24 saves/26 shots) he was named both WHL and CHL goalie of the week.

    With Wells turning pro next year, I think Skinner probably plays one more year in junior (although they may sign him).

    We still have Ellis, Starret, Wells and, potentially LB, as the minor league goalies.

    I’ve VERY happy to have Montoya all year next year.

  9. zatch says:

    That 31 Thoughts this is one of an increasing number of screaming red alerts that PC is, bluntly, useless. Any idiot can be worth $1M if you give him $5M to start. This has been his entire MO. The man couldn’t negotiate out of a wet paper bag against Tambo. What a damn mess.

  10. OriginalPouzar says:

    I know the boys don’t play until Saturday but the bye week itself is 5 days – I assume they are all back at practice tomorrow?

  11. Jethro Tull says:

    Read with interest yesterday about the general opinion of needing a retool over a rebuild; one theme was present throughout the thread – not making trades to do it.

    “Can’t trade picks, need to restock AHL shelves.”

    “Can’t trade that prospect, because I personally like him.”

    “Can’t trade that guy, he’s going to be really good. In about three years. Maybe.”

    Can’t trade that guy, because who else will take FO on the 4th line.”

    Just wondered if anyone actually has a plan of how they would proceed from now to opening FO 2018/19 season? How would you restock the prospects? How would you address NHL team needs?

    An try to keep it realistic – No “Rights to Omark” trade. (For the uninitiated, back when we thought Shae Weber was the cat’s meow, a lot of speculative trades involved the right to Olympian Omark.

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m not concerned about the Drai contract.

    Given the wingers he’s generally had to carry around this year, although he’s been up and down, I think he’s been very good overall at even strength. The numbers suggest the same.

    If Drai has even half the production that he had on the PP last year, he’d be producing at over a PPG with plenty of time away from McDavid (and with middling linemates).

  13. thehop says:

    If trading Draisaitl means we can achieve balance, I think it’s something they have to consider.

    The infamous 3-4-1 could solve many of the issues that plague this team.

    The question becomes, what do you get back to win that deal??

  14. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m not concerned about the Drai contract.

    Given the wingers he’s generally had to carry around this year, although he’s been up and down, I think he’s been very good overall at even strength.The numbers suggest the same.

    If Drai has even half the production that he had on the PP last year, he’d be producing at over a PPG with plenty of time away from McDavid (and with middling linemates).

    But he’s not producing half the production on the PP of last year. That is a straw-man argument. He’s been OK at even strength. So either last year was an outlier, or this year is. Or last year was his genuine production rate or this year is. Either way, he wasn’t and still isn’t worth $8.5M.

    It’s kind of like saying, “if he was playing better, he’d totally be worth it.”

  15. meanashell11 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m not concerned about the Drai contract.

    Given the wingers he’s generally had to carry around this year, although he’s been up and down, I think he’s been very good overall at even strength.The numbers suggest the same.

    If Drai has even half the production that he had on the PP last year, he’d be producing at over a PPG with plenty of time away from McDavid (and with middling linemates).

    Agreed. And we all knew he would underperform the contract early and outperform in the later years.

  16. Jethro Tull says:

    meanashell11: Agreed. And we all knew he would underperform the contract early and outperform in the later years.

    Eh? We did? We do? How? Based on what evidence we all know Drai will out-perform that contract? He might. I hope with all my heart he does. But how do “we all” know this?

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: But he’s not producing half the production on the PP of last year.That is a straw-man argument.He’s been OK at even strength.So either last year was an outlier, or this year is.Or last year was his genuine production rate or this year is.Either way, he wasn’t and still isn’t worth $8.5M.

    It’s kind of like saying, “if he was playing better, he’d totally be worth it.”

    He’s on pace for a 70 plus point season (if played 82 games) while playing much less time with McDavid and often centering AHL/NHL tweeners.

    He’s killing it at evens.

    He is essentially producing nothing on the PP and that is unsustainable. Perhaps his production last year on the PP was unsustainable but I posited that, with HALF of last year’s production, he’d be over a PPG.

    I think positing half of last year’s PP production going forward is quite reasonable.

  18. barry.moore23 says:

    Is there anyone in the organization to do a true analysis ? I thought Bob Nicholson was going to be the guy, but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Man, this team …… and yet I continue to “cheer with the faith of a child” thanks to LT and you guys. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. Go Oilers !!

  19. Guy says:

    thehop,

    Draisaitl to Vegas for Shea Theodore, low first and jam es Neal with extended contract?

  20. frjohnk says:

    Scott Wheeler followed up his Oilers prospect piece by comparing all the Canadian teams prospects.

    Oilers prospect pool is very shallow.

    EDIT: 3 Oiler prospects in the list of 38 Canadian teams prospect

  21. leadfarmer says:

    I will stand by my opinion that when Chia knew that was Drai’s request he should have traded him. 8.5 mil is too much for the 2nd line center no matter how good he is. That contract effectively moved the window back 4 years until it is more palatable. Could have traded him for a kings ransom last offseason.

    Not worried about Yamamoto one bit. You shouldnt either

  22. McSorley33 says:

    There is so little bubbling up from the minors or junior the mind boggles. Kailer Yamamoto is the only name I can list among the outsiders who will have a good chance to make the NHL team this fall.
    ************************************************************************************************************
    After a decade of darkness – it is incomprehensible we are this depleted.

  23. thehop says:

    Guy,

    I’d be trading him east… Like Carolina east.

    They have a whole bunch of what the Oilers need. RHD and legit wingers, some on value contracts. Yes please.

    I’d hate to see him in our division, especially on great team like Vegas. I like James Neal though.

  24. McSorley33 says:

    There is nobody more negative on our prospects that me….but I love the Kailer kid full stop.

    He is going to be a player. Book it.

    He earned his NHL appearance. No, he was not ready for the NHL.

    Speed and can make a play. Oilers fans are going to love this kid in 24 months.
    ( maybe sooner )

    The problem as highlighted by LT and many, many, many, many other 3rd parties – is there are way too few of the high end prospects.

  25. meanashell11 says:

    Jesus.

    So are we really at the point where the knives are out for Drai? This place is batshit crazy sometimes.

    Just go back and watch the Ducks series last year. Leon will be just fine and he does not need to ride Connor’s coattails to be a huge part of this teams success going forward.

  26. JimmyV1965 says:

    On a team that knows how to develop players, Yammer wouldn’t even be a remote consideration to start the season in the NHL next year. The fact that it could happen says a lot about the way this team prepares its players.

  27. OilClog says:

    Ummm which tweeners is Drai running with? Everyone Drai is running with as a C is an NHL player. Top 6.. no, but JJ is officially graduated, Strome isn’t out of the NHL next year, Drake while an Oiler will forever be a NHL player, Maroon is pretty established, Slepy was until he grew sideburns over summer.

    Who are these tweeners? Drai should of been shipped to Arizona the moment OEL cam available.

    It wasn’t a negotiation, it was a blackmailing.

  28. StixMalone says:

    If the threat of an offer sheet was valid Chia shoulda waited for it. No way the offer sheet was going to be 8.5 million. It more than likely would’ve come in at 6-6.5 per. He could’ve then matched it. We had control….

  29. Dicky94 says:

    I also believe that’s what the Oilers are preparing to do this deadline, is to trade for prospects rather than picks. It’s makes sense. Hawryluk would be a nice addition to the Oil. There’s your “Rat”!

  30. OilClog says:

    meanashell11:
    Jesus.

    So are we really at the point where the knives are out for Drai? This place is batshit crazy sometimes.

    Just go back and watch the Ducks series last year. Leon will be just fine and he does not need to ride Connor’s coattails to be a huge part of this teams success going forward.

    I do believe the issue is the gigantic price tag, it’s either spelling the end of Nuge, Maroon, and probably someone else, or Drai is shipped out. Helluva player, letting his cap hit go above 7 is incompetent management at its finest.

  31. jake70 says:

    Posted this months back and haven’t researched it at all really but all the cup winners going back to 2009 or 10 have I think had their best players on ELCs or those back-diving deals that Edmonton didn’t get a chance to enjoy for it’s best players. (Malkin signed in 2013 right after lockout season so he is exception but Crosby a year earlier signed the 12 year deal at 8.7M per).

    Imagine 97 and 29 on 12 year deals?

  32. Spooky Lynx says:

    All aboard the good ship Drai4Ovi! Toot! Toot!

  33. Réal Goudenyéu says:

    meanashell11:
    Jesus.

    So are we really at the point where the knives are out for Drai? This place is batshit crazy sometimes.

    Just go back and watch the Ducks series last year. Leon will be just fine and he does not need to ride Connor’s coattails to be a huge part of this teams success going forward.

    You shouldn’t be handing out 8.5 million dollar contacts for one well played playoff series.

  34. leadfarmer says:

    StixMalone:
    If the threat of an offer sheet was valid Chia shoulda waited for it. No way the offer sheet was going to be 8.5 million. It more than likely would’ve come in at 6-6.5 per. He could’ve then matched it. We had control….

    Even if the offer sheet came it at 8.5. He could have matched it. Then at least he would have an excuse why the price was so high.

  35. OmJo says:

    meanashell11:
    Jesus.

    So are we really at the point where the knives are out for Drai? This place is batshit crazy sometimes.

    Just go back and watch the Ducks series last year. Leon will be just fine and he does not need to ride Connor’s coattails to be a huge part of this teams success going forward.

    I’m not pulling out knives on Draisaitl. I think he’s kind of in a Benning situation – hasn’t really been the same since the concussion. I’ve not been impressed with him in the limited games I’ve seen this season. He doesn’t stand out as much as last season – besides 3v3.

    But he doesn’t have a good contract. The only good part about it is the term. I said from when the 8.5 rumours came up it would be an overpayment, and so far it is.

    Also, he hasn’t really done much away from McDavid this season. Granted, he’s had to push bottom 6 players away from 97.

  36. frjohnk says:

    Monahan has Gaudreau
    Barkov has Huberduea
    Scheifle has Wheeler
    MacKinnon has Rantanen

    Unfortunate that he is paid anywhere from $1.5M to $2.7M more than his comparables but Draisaitl as center has the worst winger depth in the league to play with, so that needs to be taken into account.

    Yeah, he is overpaid a bit, but its better to overspend on your top talent than it is for middling talent.

    Unless the offer for him is an overpayment, he should stay as an Oiler for the duration of his contract.

  37. OmJo says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    All aboard the good ship Drai4Ovi! Toot! Toot!

    Gonna be a lonely train lol

  38. thehop says:

    meanashell11,

    Certainly wasn’t carving Draisaitl.

    There is an argument to be made that his value to the team may be greater by shipping him out for the pieces needed to win a championship.

    I think if looking at one series in the playoffs is your defence for the player.. You may in fact be Mike Liut commenting under Meanashell11.

    He’s a great player. Hard to see him covering his price tag and I think if the Oilers want to win a cup in a window shorter than 5years, they need to retool the roster.

  39. Spooky Lynx says:

    OmJo: Gonna be a lonely train lol

    No doubt. More room for me though!

  40. OmJo says:

    frjohnk: Unfortunate that he is paid anywhere from $1.5M to $2.7M more than his comparables but Draisaitl as center has the worst winger depth in the league to play with, so that needs to be taken into account.

    Yup.

    Said yesterday, this team is wasting the best C depth in the league on average at best wingers.

  41. OmJo says:

    To be clear, the only way I’d support trading Draisaitl is if it’s a one-way trade in favour of the Oilers.

    About time we get on the recieving end of one of those types of trades dammit!

  42. JimmyV1965 says:

    This can be a really tough market for players underperforming. I think we all agree that Drai is having an off year, yet he has 36 pts in 42 games. That puts him in the top 20 for Centres. I call that a first line rate. Barkov has 40 in 42 games and I bet a lot more on the PP. Beyond the numbers, the things he can do with the puck, his passing, his puck protection skills, they are simply elite.

  43. JimmyV1965 says:

    meanashell11:
    Jesus.

    So are we really at the point where the knives are out for Drai? This place is batshit crazy sometimes.

    Just go back and watch the Ducks series last year. Leon will be just fine and he does not need to ride Connor’s coattails to be a huge part of this teams success going forward.

    +1000

  44. JimmyV1965 says:

    StixMalone:
    If the threat of an offer sheet was valid Chia shoulda waited for it. No way the offer sheet was going to be 8.5 million. It more than likely would’ve come in at 6-6.5 per. He could’ve then matched it. We had control….

    Just because the GM chose to overpay the player doesn’t diminish who this player is.

  45. JimmyV1965 says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    All aboard the good ship Drai4Ovi! Toot! Toot!

    That would be a mistake of monumental proportions. I guess it would get the GM out of town though. No GM would survive that deal.

  46. frjohnk says:

    Draisaitl talk reminds of me of the Hall talk a few years ago.

    Just like Hall, Draisaitl is not the issue, its the players the GM has surrounded the player with.

    Look at this winger depth

    Lucic- pace for less than 20 G
    Maroon- maybe hits 20 goals, but it wont be with the Oilers
    JP- rookie, is good, but not a top 6 option yet
    Strome – bottom 6
    Kassian- 4th liner
    Cags- 4th liner
    Sleppy- 4th liner
    Khaira- 4th liner
    Cammy- 4th liner wheels have fallen off, on 82 game Oiler pace of 6 goals
    OV2- Dman

    Oilers wingers are worst in the league

  47. thehop says:

    OmJo,

    I agree..

    Alas I fear that our current skipper is not capable of doing just that.

    Not a popular thing to say.. But I can’t stand another season like this one. I’ve been tuning out for weeks at a time and if the current GM, or the person replacing him( please please sweet baby Jesus) can’t right the ship…. I don’t know that I’ll continue to come here 31 times a day to argue with fellow fans.

    That’s why I wouldn’t mind seeing a trade. I’d love to see the balance post from LT at some point, preferably in the next 12-18 months.

  48. Thinker says:

    Every week now, something comes out that makes Chiarelli look even stupider. He has to go, regardless of what happens with TMac. I know some want to put more blame on the coach, which may or may not be warranted, but I don’t think that should detract from Chiarelli’s ineptitude.

  49. Professor Q says:

    So the Oilers Fan Base has finally decided to turn on Draisaitl, eh?

    That didn’t take too long. Hopefully the MSM doesn’t follow suit.

    Blame Chia for overpaying $1 million. But please don’t run Leon out. I couldn’t bear another one of those runs.

    He will be essential to Edmonton’s success. As well as our wingers coming up (and future) and D. McDavid obviously goes without saying.

  50. jtblack says:

    “The additions to the pro roster of Jones, Bear and Mantha give the defense some balance” …

    I have to disagree on this one. Perhaps the D is slightly more balanced than when PC took over, but on RHD we really only have ;

    Larsson
    Benning
    Bear
    Mantha

    Gryba and Fayne are most likely gone. Russell is forced to playthe Right side because the GM cant balance the D.
    NOT GOOD.

    Been a problem since 2015 and still is Today.

  51. JimmyV1965 says:

    Talk of trading Drai today would be like an Avs fan going up on a blog last year at this time and suggesting they should trade MacKinnon.

  52. OmJo says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Talk of trading Drai today would be like an Avs fan going up on a blog last year at this time and suggesting they should trade MacKinnon.

    I’d trade him for MacKinnon tbh 😛

  53. vinotintazo says:

    I Don’t get it, Drai is our second best player don’t blame him for his contract.

    Eichel, Johansen and Kuznetsov signed for similar value and I’d rather have Drai, is he over paid a bit? sure but I still think he’s worth it.

    Its ok to overpay your best players a bit.

    Wait until you see Mathews, or Seguin’s new deal lol.

  54. Oilers8833 says:

    I’m pretty much on the same page. Drai should have never got 8.5 million but the 1-1.5 million that he is overpaid isn’t what is going to kill the Oilers. It’s the Lucic with 5 more years at 6 mill and a NMC and Russell’s contract with another 3 years at 4 mill that are the self inflicted wounds that Chia has been responsible for…..and that’s not even including his horrendous asset management here and in Boston.
    frjohnk,

    frjohnk:
    Monahan has Gaudreau
    Barkov has Huberduea
    Scheifle has Wheeler
    MacKinnon has Rantanen

    Unfortunate that he is paid anywhere from $1.5M to $2.7M more than his comparables but Draisaitl as center has the worst winger depth in the league to play with, so that needs to be taken into account.

    Yeah, he is overpaid a bit, but its better to overspend on your top talent than it is for middling talent.

    Unless the offer for him is an overpayment, he should stay as an Oiler for the duration of his contract.

  55. OmJo says:

    thehop,

    I don’t think Chiarelli can do it either.

    He’s squandered so much NHL talent in trades and bad contracts… I don’t even know what to say anymore.

  56. frjohnk says:

    vinotintazo: I Don’t get it, Drai is our second best player don’t blame him for his contract.

    Eichel, Johansen and Kuznetsov signed for similar value and I’d rather have Drai, is he over paid a bit? sure but I still think he’s worth it.

    Its ok to overpay your best players a bit.

    yup

    vinotintazo: ait until you see Mathews, or Seguin’s new deal lol.

    Boston fans must be upset with their GM for trading Seguin, today they have nothing to show for it.
    Add Seguin to that lineup and they would be dynamite.

  57. thehop says:

    JimmyV1965,

    To reiterate…

    At 8.5 million.. I don’t think he is providing value. I believe if they want to win a cup, they need to spend that money on skilled, fast wingers and a RHD. I think he is the only player on the roster, who in a trade, could provide that kind of value in return.

    MacKinnon also makes 2.5 million less and is a superior player. The comparison is weak when it comes to value.

  58. Jaxon says:

    I read something by Jeremy Rutherford on The Athletic recently that makes me think Maroon to STL is a real possibility for a forward prospect of note:

    It’s a long article mainly about the friendship between two Blues prospects who won gold for Canada (Kyrou and Thomas), but here is the part I found interesting:
    Behind Paywall

    https://theathletic.com/212780/2018/01/16/blues-are-the-glue-that-brought-future-teammates-jordan-kyrou-and-robert-thomas-together-as-friends/

    “The Blues have referred internally to Kyrou, Thomas, Thompson and Kostin as the “Big Four,” and there is debate within the organization about which player (or players) in that group will have the brightest future.

    “People view them in different ways,” said Bill Armstrong. “You’ve got the speed of Kyrou and you’ve got the hockey sense of Thomas. Then you’ve got Tage, who’s already in the NHL producing points and has a boatload of potential. And you’ve got Kostin, who’s playing in the American League and is a big strong kid. So there’s a lot of good things and to rank all of those guys, that’s the tough part.”

    But the Blues have to put the “Big Four” in order because GMs are calling on them, and if Doug Armstrong finds a trade that requires parting with one of them, he has to be ready to answer.

    “This is the most players that I’ve gotten calls on since I’ve been here,” he said. “Every team thinks they have these good prospects until you make a few phone calls and then you realize you may have good prospects, but other teams don’t see them to the level that you do. We have a stable of young players now where they’re coveted. Now it’s time for us to look at where we are today, where we want to be in the next five to 10 years and where they’re going to fit in. We want to keep the guys that best fit into what we have going forward.””

    If they trade Maroon to STL for their playoff run (they are hunting for forwards and are up against the cap, so Maroon’s low cap hit and very real possibility of signing long-term at a low salary in the summer is a perfect fit. To get one of their “Big Four” and maybe Puljujarvi (very fast, useful bottom 6 forward and penalty killer on expiring contract) back would be a real coup. I added Puljujarvi as STL would still have to shed some salary to make it work.

    My question to the group would be can they allow STL and Maroon to negotiate a contract ahead of a trade? Is there an advantage to that?

  59. fifthcartel says:

    vinotintazo,

    I’m not sure Draisaitl is better than any of Eichel, Johansen, or Kuznetsov.

    The big thing is all of those players played C without huge help (97). Eichel does it on his own. Same with Johansen. Kuznetsov gets some time with Ovi but he mainly played with Williams + Burakovsky/Johansson the last two years.

    Both Johansen and Kuznetsov’s contracts are their third deals. They were bridged for a couple years before getting their mega deals, and they still came out below Draisaitl.

    When you factor in the amount of RFA years of control left (5), the contract Peter Chiarelli gave him is certifiably insane. They had all the leverage but paid him more than actual full-time centers for a season that was spent on the wing with a generational C.

    I love Draisaitl and think he’s a fantastic player, but Chiarelli bungled his contract so badly. They had all the leverage and spoke about the offersheet boogeyman (re: Draisiatl and Eberle, IMO this is one of his worst offences).

    It’s incredible how much leverage they had and instead chose to cave to Draisaitl’s agent.

  60. Jaxon says:

    Oilers8833: and Russell’s contract with another 3 years at 4 mill that are the self inflicted wounds that Chia has been responsible for

    I still believe Russell gets bought out this summer. His contract is actually structured so that a buyout makes some real sense if they are up against the cap. It would amount to a cap savings of $3.4M next season when they need it most to hold onto Nugent-Hopkins and sign Nurse. Still a dumb signing, but at least they can squeeze through next season without losing another major player.

    https://capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/kris-russell

  61. Connoreah says:

    3 years ago we didn’t have a single legitimate top line centre. Nuge (maybe), but it was a stretch. We had skilled wingers, and that’s what our team was built around. That formula kept us in the basement year after year after year. You need to build down the middle, everyone said.

    Today we have arguably the most skilled, deepest centre depth in the NHL in a very, very long time. If healthy, it would not be unrealistic to expect our top 3 centers to put up 250 combined points in a season. Think about that for a moment. And the best part, the 2 best of the 3 are locked up for the next 8 years. 8 YEARS!

    I recognize that Drai is probably overpaid by $1million. I wish Chiarelli would have stood his ground and won that negotiation. But the idea that Draisaitl is somehow “a problem” for this team? Are you kidding me? Jesus. There’s not a team in the NHL that would not take the Oilers’ centre depth at the same salary in an instant. We are blessed. One disappointing season doesn’t change that.

  62. Scungilli Slushy says:

    They are in a tough spot because of the bleed out on the Hall and Reinhart deals really coming home to roost now. And those poor drafts.

    Unless players step up to where the team needs them (not meaning McD or Drai) whatever they do will likely just create another hole now or soon enough.

    In an ideal world they find emerging players in deals at reasonable cost and friendly useful UFA contracts.

    Probably the best thing to do long term (unless somebody helps them out but I’m not holding my breath) is to draft their way out and wait for the youth they have to mature. Unfortunately the team that likes to give up quality for less is this team.

    Nuge is the best chip, I fear.

  63. Connoreah says:

    frjohnk,

    “Oilers wingers are worst in the league”

    100% true. But that’s 1000x better than having the worst centre depth and top 4 in the league (which is where we were not long ago). If you’re going to be lacking anywhere on your roster, winger depth is the best place to be light, IMHO. We need to protect our centre depth and build around it. It may take more than 1 season, but it will be worth it.

  64. fifthcartel says:

    Draisaitl’s on pace for 66 points, a 70-point pace over 82 games. That’s not bad but you can’t divorce his production from his cap hit in a salary cap league.

    Thanks to naturalstattrick.com we can see who he plays with the most. His most common linemate 5-on-5 is Maroon followed by McDavid.

    He’s played 297 of his 597 5-on-5 minutes with 97. About half his TOI. He’s also got a little more than an hour with RNH, so he’s played ~60% of this year on the wing.

    Is a 66/70-point C/RW who plays over half his 5-on-5 time on the wing with Connor McDavid and PP time worth $8.5m?

    I don’t think so.

    His $8.5m is top ten in the league this season. I’m pretty impressed his agency took Chia to the cleaners but my guess is most of the league/agents know how he works by now.

    And it’s true, you’d rather overpay your best players instead of the Lucic and Russell’s, but Chiarelli’s done both.

  65. McSorley33 says:

    LD and C are the orgs position of strength – no need to even talk about Drai.

    There was a general consensu he was unlikely to live up to the deal right away…

    Let’s focus – as FRJOHNK says – on areas where we are embarrassing.

    RD and the winger position.

    Leon needs a speedy winger with a quick release – asap. He is a play making creative passer.

    Fill this role for Leaon and watch what happens.

    Speed. Speed and more Speed. We need more speed.

  66. McSorley33 says:

    Just came across an article about Minny really regretting the price they paid on deadline day for Hanzal….

    Curious to see what the buyers are willing to pay at this deadline.

  67. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Jaxon: I still believe Russell gets bought out this summer. His contract is actually structured so that a buyout makes some real sense if they are up against the cap. It would amount to a cap savings of $3.4M next season when they need it most to hold onto Nugent-Hopkins and sign Nurse. Still a dumb signing, but at least they can squeeze through next season without losing another major player.

    https://capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/kris-russell

    Or just ask him to waive the one year. The cap hit is big in 20/21. Either way he has to change cities. Maybe he makes more cash getting bought out and signing elsewhere. It would solve some problems for sure.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    OilClog:
    Ummm which tweeners is Drai running with? Everyone Drai is running with as a C is an NHL player. Top 6.. no, but JJ is officially graduated, Strome isn’t out of the NHL next year, Drake while an Oiler will forever be a NHL player, Maroon is pretty established, Slepy was until he grew sideburns over summer.

    Who are these tweeners? Drai should of been shipped to Arizona the moment OEL cam available.

    It wasn’t a negotiation, it was a blackmailing.

    JJ was a tweener up until very recently – he probably still is – a month of good hockey does not solidify his career

    Slep is a tweener

    Drake is a tweener – the organization loves him but, even so, he is has been healthy scratched and could very well warrant minor league time.

    Stome – he’s a legit NHL player but hasn’t proven to be any more than a bottom 6 guy.

    We can argue all day about “tweener” vs. “NHL player” but looking at his wingers for the year, not a single one is a legit top 6 winger in the NHL yet Drai produces at even strength with these wingers.

  69. frjohnk says:

    Connoreah:
    frjohnk,

    “Oilers wingers are worst in the league”

    100% true. But that’s 1000x better than having the worst centre depth and top 4 in the league (which is where we were not long ago). If you’re going to be lacking anywhere on your roster, winger depth is the best place to be light, IMHO. We need to protect our centre depth and build around it. It may take more than 1 season, but it will be worth it.

    totally agree with you.

    Oilers should be looking to surround the good players like our centers with better than 4th line wingers, not trading our good players for upgrades on the wings

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    StixMalone:
    If the threat of an offer sheet was valid Chia shoulda waited for it. No way the offer sheet was going to be 8.5 million. It more than likely would’ve come in at 6-6.5 per. He could’ve then matched it. We had control….

    The offer sheet excuse is terrible – that I will agree with but Drai wasn’t signing any contract, offer sheet or otherwise, from any team at $6M-$6.5M,

  71. bendelson says:

    Jethro Tull: Just wondered if anyone actually has a plan of how they would proceed from now to opening FO 2018/19 season? How would you restock the prospects? How would you address NHL team needs?
    An try to keep it realistic – No “Rights to Omark” trade. (For the uninitiated, back when we thought Shae Weber was the cat’s meow, a lot of speculative trades involved the right to Olympian Omark.

    I’ll take a run at it Jethro…

    Trade Maroon for a NHL ready (or close) prospect. I suggested Barbashev as an example earlier… your mileage may vary. Senyshyn? Dickinson?
    Trade Letestu for a late pick (5th?)
    Trade Strome for a pick (3rd?)
    Move Cammy if you can (7th?) and play Sleppy the remainder of the year.
    Steal Pageau from Ottawa for Cags and a late 2019 pick.
    Sign Derek Ryan to replace Letestu (3x2M?)
    And… finally, perhaps a 3 for 1 trade in the summer to nab Boone Jenner. I don’t know how this gets done (buy low) but I’m fine with dangling Caleb Jones in front of CLB as part of a package.

    And of course, you dump Russell’s contract whenever possible.
    I’d be tempted to go and get Petrovic regardless (for 2019 3rd?)

    Sounds about right.
    Too biased? Probably.
    Picks in this year, and a few out next year…

    More speed, better face offs and a legit PK presence…

  72. thehop says:

    McSorley33,

    So the idea I’m throwing out there…to use Drai to address those issues…. Is not worth talking about?

    How do the Oilers address those issues and come out on top then?

  73. Connoreah says:

    thehop,

    “At 8.5 million.. I don’t think he is providing value. I believe if they want to win a cup, they need to spend that money on skilled, fast wingers and a RHD. I think he is the only player on the roster, who in a trade, could provide that kind of value in return.”

    So what you’re suggesting is we throw away 8 years of security and a (very likely) point-per-game centerman who is 4 years away from his peak, and use the savings to pay fast skilled wingers (plural) and a RHD? 2 Questions:

    1. Who are the 3 players you’re going to sign for $8.5 or less (total for all 3) to fill those roles and provide value?
    2. Didn’t we try the whole “skilled wingers are the key to a cup” approach already?

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    Leon’s primary points/60 – 1.71

    McDavid’s primary points/60 – 1.81

  75. vinotintazo says:

    fifthcartel: I love Draisaitl and think he’s a fantastic player, but Chiarelli bungled his contract so badly. They had all the leverage and spoke about the offersheet boogeyman (re: Draisiatl and Eberle, IMO this is one of his worst offences).

    It’s incredible how much leverage they had and instead chose to cave to Draisaitl’s agent.

    I understand you think Chia had all the leverage, but I disagree, Leon’s Agent and an offersheet was a real thing, I think it was the right call to avoid the offersheet, history tells us things dont work out well if we get there, See O’Rielly, Vanek, Johansen, Hamilton etc.

    if anything in hindsight, I would have extended him at the beginning of 2016-17 Season, may have gotten him around 6-7 M, but everyone including this blog agreed we needed to see more and he earned it to be fair on him.

  76. frjohnk says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Leon’s primary points/60 – 1.71

    McDavid’s primary points/60 – 1.81

    Oh great.

    OP wants to trade not only Drai but McDavid now.

    Good grief 🙂

  77. Rondo says:

    Chiarelli is not a good GM, I would not trust him doing anything good at the trade deadline. Given his track record getting something right is an aberration. He does not know how to value a player.

    I don’t know who would be his replacement. But they need to stop the bleeding.
    Chiarelli’s philosophy is so a decade ago.

  78. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    This can be a really tough market for players underperforming. I think we all agree that Drai is having an off year, yet he has 36 pts in 42 games. That puts him in the top 20 for Centres. I call that a first line rate. Barkov has 40 in 42 games and I bet a lot more on the PP.Beyond the numbers, the things he can do with the puck, his passing, his puck protection skills, they are simply elite.

    I don’t agree that he’s really having an “off-year”.

    He was injured and it took him a few games to get back to normal (from what I saw), he’s played way less with McDavid and, when centering his own line, has been doing so with bottom 6 forwards/tweeners and yet is still almost at a PPG.

    He is struggling on the PP and his PP production is unsustainable low – once his PP production regresses to the norm (even half of last year’s production), he’s essentially a PPG player.

    His ESP/60 are at 2.31 and his Primary P/60 are at 1.71 (almost the same as McDavid).

    Now, he hasn’t looked as good on the ice, he’s been inconsistent, etc. – given the foregoing and how much better we KNOW he can play, shouldn’t that excite Oiler fans with how great and dominate this player is going to be for the term of his contract?

  79. thehop says:

    Connoreah,

    Who’s saying he’s a problem??

    I didn’t.

    I am saying I believe the Oilers cannot win a cup in five years or less with the current prospect pool and the team make up as it stand.

    I am advocating the possibility of trading Draisaitl in a 3 for 1 deal to address the obvious lack of skilled wingers and a RHD.

    BALANCE

  80. frjohnk says:

    Connoreah: Didn’t we try the whole “skilled wingers are the key to a cup” approach already?

    The approach tried out was actually ” 1 top 4 Dman” along with ” a bunch of AHL forwards” with a few “skilled wingers” who had Mr Bean as coach.

    Switch McDavid and Drai with those skilled wingers and the team would have still done a faceplant every year.

  81. Thinker says:

    Connoreah:
    thehop,

    “At 8.5 million.. I don’t think he is providing value. I believe if they want to win a cup, they need to spend that money on skilled, fast wingers and a RHD. I think he is the only player on the roster, who in a trade, could provide that kind of value in return.”

    So what you’re suggesting is we throw away 8 years of security and a (very likely) point-per-game centerman who is 4 years away from his peak, and use the savings to pay fast skilled wingers (plural) and a RHD? 2 Questions:

    1.Who are the 3 players you’re going to sign for $8.5 or less (total for all 3) to fill those roles and provide value?
    2.Didn’t we try the whole “skilled wingers are the key to a cup” approach already?

    Point 2 is a non-starter. Our three 3 model is having similar reaults. You need balance. Draisaitl is slightly overpaid, but he isn’t the issue. The issue imo is the GMs decision making, and the apparent lack of negotiating ability. Not to mention the fact it was likely that Draisaitl regress and become cheaper in subsequent seasons due mostly to shooting percentage.

  82. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Or just ask him to waive the one year. The cap hit is big in 20/21. Either way he has to change cities. Maybe he makes more cash getting bought out and signing elsewhere. It would solve some problems for sure.

    That big cap hit year is the “lock out year”.

  83. Pouzar says:

    bendelson: I’ll take a run at it Jethro…

    Trade Maroon for a NHL ready (or close) prospect.I suggested Barbashev as an example earlier… your mileage may vary.Senyshyn?Dickinson?
    Trade Letestu for a late pick (5th?)
    Trade Strome for a pick (3rd?)
    Move Cammy if you can (7th?) and play Sleppy the remainder of the year.
    Steal Pageau from Ottawa for Cags and a late 2019 pick.
    Sign Derek Ryan to replace Letestu (3x2M?)
    And… finally, perhaps a 3 for 1 trade in the summer to nab Boone Jenner.I don’t know how this gets done (buy low) but I’m fine with dangling Caleb Jones in front of CLB as part of a package.

    And of course, you dump Russell’s contract whenever possible.
    I’d be tempted to go and get Petrovic regardless (for 2019 3rd?)

    Sounds about right.
    Too biased?Probably.
    Picks in this year, and a few out next year…

    More speed, better face offs and a legit PK presence…

    Well done.
    Was waiting for a post like this.

    Derek Ryan would be a helluva pick up. It’s going to cost some team some good coin and term though. He is blitzing last year’s “career year” right now.

    Lots of ‘addition by subtraction’ here and some deft pickups.

    #Bendy4GM

  84. Oilers8833 says:

    Jaxon,

    But why make that signing in the first place if you have to buy it out 1 year into a 4 year contract. It’s decisions like those (especially in McDavid’s last ELC year) that make me shake my head.

    I was a huge fan of Chia coming to the organization, but now when you include:

    1) Reinhart Trade
    2) Hall Trade
    3) Eberle Trade (especially when he traded Ebs so he could match an offer sheet for Drai…truly terrible)
    4) Lucic Signing
    5) Above mentioned Russell signing

    I just don’t understand what Chia’s end game is…..we wait.

  85. JimmyV1965 says:

    thehop:
    JimmyV1965,

    To reiterate…

    At 8.5 million.. I don’t think he is providing value. I believe if they want to win a cup, they need to spend that money on skilled, fast wingers and a RHD. I think he is the only player on the roster, who in a trade, could provide that kind of value in return.

    MacKinnon also makes 2.5 million less and is a superior player. The comparison is weak when it comes to value.

    I think you can argue MacKinnon is better than Drai. They both will be great players in this league for many years. Remember though, MacKinnon had a huge rookie year then had three disappointing years in a row.

    I don’t think you trade a player like Drai and come out further ahead. You end up getting three lesser players. Especially so if he’s coming off a bad year and the perception is he’s overpaid.

  86. Rondo says:

    JimmyV1965,

    You could add arguably Barkov is better than Drai.

  87. vinotintazo says:

    JimmyV1965: I think you can argue MacKinnon is better than Drai.

    I think you are right, but not many were saying that last year.

  88. thehop says:

    Connoreah,

    No idea who I think they should target.

    I hate that game.

  89. vinotintazo says:

    Rondo:
    JimmyV1965,

    You could add arguably Barkov is better than Drai.

    Its close, except Barkov’s cap is great value. wowzers

  90. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree that he’s really having an “off-year”.

    He was injured and it took him a few games to get back to normal (from what I saw), he’s played way less with McDavid and, when centering his own line, has been doing so with bottom 6 forwards/tweeners and yet is still almost at a PPG.

    He is struggling on the PP and his PP production is unsustainable low – once his PP production regresses to the norm (even half of last year’s production), he’s essentially a PPG player.

    His ESP/60 are at 2.31 and his Primary P/60 are at 1.71 (almost the same as McDavid).

    Now, he hasn’t looked as good on the ice, he’s been inconsistent, etc. – given the foregoing and how much better we KNOW he can play, shouldn’t that excite Oiler fans with how great and dominate this player is going to be for the term of his contract?

    It excites me. With all the garbage we have on the wings, we will have two top 10 or 15 centres in this league for many years. Drai just isn’t at the stage right now where he can carry bad wingers. Give it a couple years.

  91. Cassandra says:

    We went over this in the summer ad infinitum.

    Considering his RFA status in order for Draisatl to provide value in comparison to other RFA contracts he needs to be, at minimum, one of the ten best players in the world. Something on the order of a 90 + point player

    This is an uncontroversial statement. Denying this only demonstrates you don’t understand how contract status is part of the value of a player.

    By this reasoning, the Draisatl contract is a terrible contract. There is little room for disagreement. There are those that know and understand, and those that don’t.

    That said, in comparison to UFA contracts, Draisatl can still represent value with less than 90 pt seasons.

    The former criteria should be used to evaluate Chiarelli and here, once again, he shows himself to be an abject failure of a general manager.

    However, the latter criteria should be used to evaluate Draisatl, where I think he is mostly fine. Certainly much better than the head of the table, who couldn’t be traded for a 7th round pick even if he didn’t have a NMC. So once again Chiarelli demonstrates himself to be an abject failure of a general manager.

  92. Cassandra says:

    Last winter Jim Benning, who is widely regarded as an incompetent general manager, traded Alex Burrows and Jannik Hansen, two players who should have had no value, for prospects.

    Those two prospects, Goldobin and Dahlen, would be the 2nd and 3rd best prospects if they were on the Oilers.

    Let us see whether Chiarelli can rise about incompetence. Anything less than two top 75 prospects is, once again, an abject failure.

    Maroon has a better track record than Hansen and is in the midst of a better season. He needs to bring back a top prospect. If Benning can do it, why can’t Chiarelli?

    That is the bar.

  93. Cassandra says:

    bendelson,

    Barbashev is nowhere near enough for Maroon.

    If Maroon is traded to St. Louis the minimum back is Klim Kostin.

    If Jim Benning can do it, why can’t Chiarelli?

  94. Jethro Tull says:

    vinotintazo: I understand you think Chia had all the leverage, but I disagree, Leon’s Agent and an offersheet was a real thing, I think it was the right call to avoid the offersheet, history tells us things dont work out well if we get there, See O’Rielly, Vanek, Johansen, Hamilton etc.

    if anything in hindsight, I would have extended him at the beginning of 2016-17 Season, may have gotten him around 6-7 M, but everyone including this blog agreed we needed to see more and he earned it to be fair on him.

    Every single other offer sheet has been made public knowledge. But not this one. Why? Because the agent made it up, sorry, implied it. It never was. Well excuse me, to correct myself, it wouldn’t have been a lie to say that other teams were considering an offer sheet for Drai. It’s a shot to nothing. Like saying that many people consider buying a Big Mac when they go to McDonald’s, so you better buy one for $8.5M, Peter, before the lunch rush gets here.

  95. bendelson says:

    Cassandra,

    Maroon’s past playoff performance suggests he will be a nice addition for someone…
    That said, I think Kostin is reaching… I was trying to keep it realistic. I think you are setting yourself up for more disappointment with Chia (surprise!)

    I wanted to put Forsbacka-Karlsson in the loop but seriously doubt that happens either…

  96. vinotintazo says:

    Jethro Tull,

    I think most would agree dealing with Mike Liut was not going to be easy, ultimately I’m happy Drai is an Oiler for 8 years.

    For me thats what matters most.

  97. bendelson says:

    Pouzar: Well done.
    Was waiting for a post like this.

    Derek Ryan would be a helluva pick up. It’s going to cost some team some good coin and term though. He is blitzing last year’s “career year” right now.

    Lots of ‘addition by subtraction’ here and some deft pickups.

    #Bendy4GM

    Thanks Pouzar!

    I doubt Ryan makes it to free agency…
    If he does, Edmonton seems an excellent fit, to be sure.

  98. npanciroli says:

    I think we are looking at Drai differently if we ran a competent PP. Maybe part of that is on him but that deployment doesn’t bring me joy.

  99. dernf says:

    As others have mentioned, Draisaitl being overpaid by $1 million is a problem because of Lucic and Russell’s contract. Why the hell are we talking about shipping Draisaitl out of town? Do everything you can to get rid of Lucic’s contract and leave Draisaitl alone. Then let’s see where we are. If I have to watch another McDavid or Draisaitl pass spend 7 years in Tibet on Lucic’s stick before he shoots, or be just out of his reach because he stopped skating….

    I understand that he has a difficult contract to move and an NMC (does it kick in later…? Having a hard time understanding what capfriendly is saying about it) but you have to try and find someone who might be willing to take him and then sweeten the pot. Do that first, then see what this team looks like with a middling winger who has speed and even an inkling of a shot. Dealing Draisaitl to accomodate a terrible contract that is only going to get worse and handcuff this team more? Deal with it now, if possible.

    On another note, I hate how bad contracts make me dislike players. Lucic as a 3rd/4th liner for $2.5-3 mil per? Love it. Russell on a 2-3 deal for $2.5-3 mil. Love it. These contracts make this fan base run players out of town.

    I know Lucic would have signed somewhere else (that’s fine with me) if the offer was for 2.5-3, but my point stands.

  100. Bobcaygeon says:

    If Draisaitl goes anywhere it should b for MacKinnon, I was begging for that this summer if Draisaitl ask was over 7.5…
    I’ll also predict if the Oilers are in the 5-8 range for the draft they’ll win it!
    As I see it the Oilers needs are….
    RHD or LHD who can slide into the PP & PK
    A RHD
    One elite winger
    Two top 9 players that are strong PKers, one which is A third line centre

  101. Jaxon says:

    Oilers8833: But why make that signing in the first place if you have to buy it out 1 year into a 4 year contract. It’s decisions like those (especially in McDavid’s last ELC year) that make me shake my head.

    Yup.

  102. Jaxon says:

    bendelson:
    Cassandra,

    Maroon’s past playoff performance suggests he will be a nice addition for someone…
    That said, I think Kostin is reaching… I was trying to keep it realistic.I think you are setting yourself up for more disappointment with Chia (surprise!)

    I wanted to put Forsbacka-Karlsson in the loop but seriously doubt that happens either…

    See my first comment above. STL GM has stated that if the right deal comes across his desk he is prepared to send out one of the”Big Four” as he calls them, which is Kostin, Thomas, Kyrou and Thompson. I don’t think it will be Thompson at the deadline as he is already playing in the NHL. If STL is in win now more they may pay with one of the four. Maroon is a very good fit for them, especially since there is a very good chance he will re-sign in the summer on a long term contract with a hometown discount to be near his son. He’d give them a big body who can score for a playoff run at a very affordable cap hit. I’d throw in a Caleb Jones to get Kyrou or Thomas and Puljujarvi.

  103. jtblack says:

    Hall and Eberle both sighted Edm as a tough place to play. Fans turn on you quick.

    Are we really turning on Drai already? Really?

    Players dont develop in a strght line ppl. He has Good stats. He is and will be a Great Oiler. Lets not run more good guys out of town.

    Get Good players, KEEP Good players.

  104. John Chambers says:

    Cassandra:
    We went over this in the summer ad infinitum.

    Considering his RFA status in order for Draisatl to provide value in comparison to other RFA contracts he needs to be, at minimum, one of the ten best players in the world.Something on the order of a 90 + point player

    This is an uncontroversial statement.Denying this only demonstrates you don’t understand how contract status is part of the value of a player.

    By this reasoning, the Draisatl contract is a terrible contract.There is little room for disagreement.There are those that know and understand, and those that don’t.

    That said, in comparison to UFA contracts, Draisatl can still represent value with less than 90 pt seasons.

    The former criteria should be used to evaluate Chiarelli and here, once again, he shows himself to be an abject failure of a general manager.

    However, the latter criteria should be used to evaluate Draisatl, where I think he is mostly fine.Certainly much better than the head of the table, who couldn’t be traded for a 7th round pick even if he didn’t have a NMC.So once again Chiarelli demonstrates himself to be an abject failure of a general manager.

    The saving grace to the Draisaitl contract is the term.

    Pastrnak signed a 6-year contract for $6.7M. Draisaitl is a Centre, is bigger, etc, so let’s say his market value is $1M above Pasta’s – $7.7M.

    Agreed, we’re overpaying by ~$750K / year. But the subsequent contract is likely $10M+, meaning there is $1.5M – $2M in savings annually during years 7 and 8.

    Factored in the cost is front-loaded, but will be a value contract near the end of the term.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: Every single other offer sheet has been made public knowledge.But not this one.Why?Because the agent made it up, sorry, implied it.It never was.Well excuse me, to correct myself, it wouldn’t have been a lie to say that other teams were considering an offer sheet for Drai.It’s a shot to nothing.Like saying that many people consider buying a Big Mac when they go to McDonald’s, so you better buy one for $8.5M, Peter, before the lunch rush gets here.

    Signed offer sheets are made public knowledge.

    Potential offer sheet signings are not – for all we know, Drai has received a couple of offer sheets to mull over (or was advised by other teams that they might send over a contract proposal/offer sheet) and his Agent provided that information to Chia.

  106. thehop says:

    jtblack,

    Where in any of the dialogue is anyone attempting to run anyone out of town? Please feel free to quote.

    If you, as a fan of this team, can stand by how the team has been managed and how they are coached that’s fine.

    I think the team makeup and the deployment by the coach are issues. The Oilers are, as they have always been, unbalanced. I blame the former more than the latter.

    I believe Draisaitl COULD be the piece that allows the team to find balance through a trade. I would wholly endorse the move if it meant the team could challenge for a cup within the next three years.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    bendelson: Thanks Pouzar!

    I doubt Ryan makes it to free agency…
    If he does, Edmonton seems an excellent fit, to be sure.

    I believe we need to run Jujhar Khaira at 4C in the back-half of the year and up his PK time.

    We may have an internal option cheaper than signing Ryan – every dollar matters.

  108. speeds says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Read with interest yesterday about the general opinion of needing a retool over a rebuild; one theme was present throughout the thread – not making trades to do it.

    “Can’t trade picks, need to restock AHL shelves.”

    “Can’t trade that prospect, because I personally like him.”

    “Can’t trade that guy, he’s going to be really good.In about three years.Maybe.”

    Can’t trade that guy, because who else will take FO on the 4th line.”

    Just wondered if anyone actually has a plan of how they would proceed from now to opening FO 2018/19 season?How would you restock the prospects?How would you address NHL team needs?

    An try to keep it realistic – No “Rights to Omark” trade.(For the uninitiated, back when we thought Shae Weber was the cat’s meow, a lot of speculative trades involved the right to Olympian Omark.

    I will prob write about it at some point in more detail, so wont get too far into it, but if I were EDMs GM, Id be looking to clear cap space and move out older players, including potentially all the NMC players and all pending UFAs.

  109. bendelson says:

    OriginalPouzar: I believe we need to run Jujhar Khaira at 4C in the back-half of the year and up his PK time.

    We may have an internal option cheaper than signing Ryan – every dollar matters.

    Ha! I owe myself a dollar (quietly predicted your post).

    Though I get what your saying and DO like Khiara, in a perfect world, I like 2 functional C’s/line.
    Maybe he changes my mind playing C once Letestu is gone and becomes ‘bonafide’… maybe.
    He’s not there today.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    bendelson: Ha!I owe myself a dollar (quietly predicted your post).

    Though I get what your saying and DO like Khiara, in a perfect world, I like 2 functional C’s/line.
    Maybe he changes my mind playing C once Letestu is gone and becomes ‘bonafide’… maybe.
    He’s not there today.

    Nope, he’s not there today but he potentially could be there by the end of the year if provided with the opportunity. He’s taken a step or two forward this year, maybe he can take another?

    Yes, in a perfect world we’d have more than one of these players, however, in our scenario, things are far from perfect and we only have so much to spend – every dollar counts.

    To be clear, I wouldn’t be adverse to the Ryan signing at all at the referenced dollars – just would like to see what JJ can do in the next 38 games (or whatever we have left).

  111. YKOil says:

    Nice post Bendy,

    Sticking with the basics:

    Note: all UFA/RFA trades assume that the Oilers offer to retain salary to maximize value coming back. ALL of them. If Chia doesn’t do this he should be fired immediately.

    Trade Maroon for a NHL ready/close prospect or a good 2nd – should get a Burrows-type return..
    Trade Letestu for a late pick (late 3rd or any 4th imo)
    Trade Cammy for a pick (6th – would even look at a swap: my 7th rounder for your 5th rounder)
    Trade Gryba for a pick (5th or 6th imo)
    Shop Fayne for a pick (7th or a pick swap as mentioned above)

    Look at trading Montoya (deadline 2nd to 4th depending on need of trade partner)
    Look at trading Kassian to a team that wants toughness for the play-offs (some teams will be looking for this – need to see something decent coming back)

    Re-sign Auvitu
    Play Slepy every chance I get (agreed)

    Sign Strome if cheap (say $2.0 for 3 or 2.25 for 2 years) or trade Strome for a pick (3rd) or – my preferred option – trade Strome for an under-appreciated veteran, preferable RS with PK skills, on another team (bring back the next Henderson?)

    Work to get Russell (please) or Sekera to waive their NMC and move them on – too many NMCs on this team.

    UFA target: (agree) Derek Ryan – expect $3.0+ million a year

    As for Drai and Nuge, vastly prefer keeping them BUT both Montreal and Carolina are desperate for a #1 center so if they are willing to overpay – a lot – then I am listening. I want wingers and RD.

    If Montoya was traded… play Brossoit a lot (for a back-up) and get as good a pick as possible.

  112. texmex says:

    Edmonton Oilers

    Verified account

    @EdmontonOilers
    9m9 minutes ago
    More
    The #Oilers have recalled forward Iiro Pakarinen from the Bakersfield @Condors & placed forward Ryan Nugent-Hopkins on Injured Reserve.

    There you go

  113. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: Signed offer sheets are made public knowledge.

    Potential offer sheet signings are not – for all we know, Drai has received a couple of offer sheets to mull over (or was advised by other teams that they might send over a contract proposal/offer sheet) and his Agent provided that information to Chia.

    Yeah, I’m not sure you get where I’m coming from. I’m pretty sure that Drai was still under contract with the Oilers, thus other teams would not be allowed to send him offer sheets unofficially, nor signal their intent to do so. They would be allowed to tender offer sheets through official channels which the Oilers could either match or not.

    https://www.silversevensens.com/2015/6/25/8773751/nhl-offer-sheet-explained-rules-guide

    So there you have it. Offer sheets have to be formally accepted by the player in order for the OIlers to know which conditions they have to match. All formally accepted offer sheets have been made public knowledge. Therefore, logic dictates that has Drai received an offer sheet of $8 to $8.5M, he would have formally accepted and the Oilers would have either matched, which means Drai remains an Oiler, or been let go for compensation from the offer sheeting team. If the sheets are undeclared, this means they are either not accepted, or do not exist.

    Given the absolute rarity for offer sheets to be made, I’m going to go out on a very stout limb and say there was no offer sheet, and Chia blew it and managed to turn a position of if not advantage, at the very least equitable negotiation into overpaying. The lack of evidence to the contrary does not signify a conspiracy situation of “behind closed doors” and “hints and winks”.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    We probably have a month before any of these “auditions” will take place.

    I mean, right now, the coaching staff is in “win the game” mode – and they should be (they should always be).

    That means that Letestu will continue 4C and high-end PK time. That means that Cammy will continue to take up significant minutes in the middle 6.

    Another losing streak and we might get to see Slepy take over from Cammy and JJ play some 4C.

    If not, we wait for the deadline and the disposition of guys like Cammy and Letestu.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ya, so the Oilers just recalled Pakarinan and placed Nuge on IR.

    So the McLellan verbal (and Rishaug tweet) about no concussion and some bruising that should be gone was pretty much nonsense.

  116. Jethro Tull says:

    texmex:
    Edmonton Oilers

    Verified account

    @EdmontonOilers9m9 minutes ago
    More
    The #Oilers have recalled forward Iiro Pakarinen from the Bakersfield @Condors & placed forward Ryan Nugent-Hopkins on Injured Reserve.

    There you go

    Fuck. Lenny Petrell’s quest for world domination gets a massive boost.

    “Nuge is down, the season’s over, let’s give one of the boys from the Bako a cup of coffee. Little bit of NHL experience.”

    “Say no more, fam. Get me IIro.”

  117. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m sure Nuge is on IR retroactive to when the injury occurred (Saturday).

    Do we think the 5 days that they were on the mandated break are included in the 7 day minimum stay on IR?

    If so, he could potentially only miss the one game on Sat night.

    If this is more serious, we only have 3 games until the all-star break – getting this injury during a stretch of 3 games in 2 plus weeks is “good timing”.

  118. John Chambers says:

    OriginalPouzar: Signed offer sheets are made public knowledge.

    Potential offer sheet signings are not – for all we know, Drai has received a couple of offer sheets to mull over (or was advised by other teams that they might send over a contract proposal/offer sheet) and his Agent provided that information to Chia.

    I have a theory where, say, Vancouver approached Drai with a $9.5M x 8 offer.

    Mike Liut came to Chia and said they’d be willing to take a hometown discount, but only by a mil. Ergo, Drai doesn’t sign the Vancouver offer and the Oilers are forced to buck up.

  119. OriginalPouzar says:

    Silver lining if this is serious (I have no idea): not that I think Nuge is really on the block for a middling return, any material injury should quash any trades (although any Nuge trade is a hockey trade so a team may still consummate a trade for the future).

  120. bendelson says:

    OriginalPouzar: So the McLellan verbal (and Rishaug tweet) about no concussion and some bruising that should be gone was pretty much nonsense.

    Quelle surprise!

  121. Réal Goudenyéu says:

    John Chambers: I have a theory where, say, Vancouver approached Drai with a $9.5M x 8 offer.

    Mike Liut came to Chia and said they’d be willing to take a hometown discount, but only by a mil. Ergo, Drai doesn’t sign the Vancouver offer and the Oilers are forced to buck up.

    What the hell is happening when a player with one good season gets offered 9.5 million dollars a year?

    It’s a rhetorical question.

  122. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: Yeah, I’m not sure you get where I’m coming from.I’m pretty sure that Drai was still under contract with the Oilers, thus other teams would not be allowed to send him offer sheets unofficially, nor signal their intent to do so.They would be allowed to tender offer sheets through official channels which the Oilers could either match or not.

    https://www.silversevensens.com/2015/6/25/8773751/nhl-offer-sheet-explained-rules-guide

    So there you have it.Offer sheets have to be formally accepted by the player in order for the OIlers to know which conditions they have to match.All formally accepted offer sheets have been made public knowledge.Therefore, logic dictates that has Drai received an offer sheet of $8 to $8.5M, he would have formally accepted and the Oilers would have either matched, which means Drai remains an Oiler, or been let go for compensation from the offer sheeting team.If the sheets are undeclared, this means they are either not accepted, or do not exist.

    Given the absolute rarity for offer sheets to be made, I’m going to go out on a very stout limb and say there was no offer sheet, and Chia blew it and managed to turn a position of if not advantage, at the very least equitable negotiation into overpaying.The lack of evidence to the contrary does not signify a conspiracy situation of “behind closed doors” and “hints and winks”.

    Leon signed in August, he was an RFA – a team could officially tender him an offer sheet.

    I don’t agree with your “logic dictates” portion.

    Drai could very well have received an actuall offer sheet from another team to mull over and/or been in talks with other teams who verbalized an offer. In each case, no, the Oilers would not officially know about it but Drai’s camp could very well have told Oilers management about the unsigned offer sheet and/or verbalized offer.

    This is all fictitious and speculation though.

    I don’t know what happened in negotiations – I don’t know if Liut gave Chia some made up BS about fabricated offer sheets/verbalized offers, I don’t know if there were real offers he told Chia about and I don’t know if there was no mention of offer sheets in the negotiations.

    I do agree with the masses that the “threat” of an offer sheet should not have scared Chia in to going higher than he needed to.

    With that said, Liut could have told him that Drai had been offered $9M by another team but he’d be willing to sign with the Oilers for $8.5M – against, speculation.

  123. Jethro Tull says:

    John Chambers: I have a theory where, say, Vancouver approached Drai with a $9.5M x 8 offer.

    Mike Liut came to Chia and said they’d be willing to take a hometown discount, but only by a mil. Ergo, Drai doesn’t sign the Vancouver offer and the Oilers are forced to buck up.

    That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Hometown discount? That’s not even a thing. Who is the last player to sign for less than market value for some dreamed up narrative of playing for his hometown? Ryan Smyth, lol. Oops, no they argued over $100,000. And Drai is from Cologne.

    Also, the rest of the NHLPA would be pissed – you have the chance to set the standard for higher pay scale for performance, and you left money on the table? and I believe that would be collusion.

    The more Drai gets paid, the more Mike gets paid.

    Vancouver would be overvaluing Drai even more.

    If that hypothetically happens, you say “then get $9.5M for him then. Good day to you, sir!”

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    John Chambers: I have a theory where, say, Vancouver approached Drai with a $9.5M x 8 offer.

    Mike Liut came to Chia and said they’d be willing to take a hometown discount, but only by a mil. Ergo, Drai doesn’t sign the Vancouver offer and the Oilers are forced to buck up.

    I just speculated about the same in my post a minute ago.

    I have no idea if something like that happened but it is a possibility.

    Its one of the only legit scenarios where Chia gave Drai extra in order to fend off a potential offer sheet (knowledge provide by Drai’s camp that Drai had been offered more than $8.5M).

    I think its unlikely but noone posting here has any real idea.

  125. thehop says:

    Slepy>>>Pak

    I just don’t understand this team. Clevland Browns of the NHL.. Your Edmonton Oilers.

  126. anjinsan says:

    Draisaitl contract = result of stick-up. The thing is: it took Chiarelli to act scared/desperate He’s incompetent, period.

    Regarding trading RFAs and UFAs — get the assets, stupid! If it’s denominated in picks, amass them, collect them, pile them up. You can then redeem them for prospects and players.

    It’s value that’s key! If you have to take an indirect route to your goal of of 1st pairing RD and fighter pilot wingers, so be it.

  127. Sighduck says:

    I think the whole league is waiting to see how Toronto deals with their ‘big 3’ (Nylander, Matthews, and Marner). IMO those deals will either prove Chia as an iffy at best negotiator or a change in the way this league pays stars.

  128. Thinker says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Read with interest yesterday about the general opinion of needing a retool over a rebuild; one theme was present throughout the thread – not making trades to do it.

    “Can’t trade picks, need to restock AHL shelves.”

    “Can’t trade that prospect, because I personally like him.”

    “Can’t trade that guy, he’s going to be really good.In about three years.Maybe.”

    Can’t trade that guy, because who else will take FO on the 4th line.”

    Just wondered if anyone actually has a plan of how they would proceed from now to opening FO 2018/19 season?How would you restock the prospects?How would you address NHL team needs?

    An try to keep it realistic – No “Rights to Omark” trade.(For the uninitiated, back when we thought Shae Weber was the cat’s meow, a lot of speculative trades involved the right to Olympian Omark.

    I’m trading the pick unless it is in the top 3. I suggested Toronto for Marner before (Swap of firsts plus our second), but not sure he’s still available. Lots of teams will want young top 10 D, and the pick should have massive value. The team isn’t structured to undergo another full rebuild. We need to make some moves now to retool.

    The NMCs should be able to be converted into decent prospects. Somebody out there still values Lucic (I’m positive), and you should be able to get a decent prospect back. Sekera can probably be swapped for a RD. Russel is almost impossible to clear. I wonder if Vegas would be interested in Sekera or Lucic for a playoff run. Though they have limited prospect depth, and probably don’t want to move Glass, Suzuki, or Brannstrom.

    Still tonnes of holes to fill, but hopefully there are some useful UFA available. It’s a few years process now. Won’t turn around all at once. We are too far back.

  129. Sighduck says:

    anjinsan,

    This is where I think Chia has the most trouble, rather than using trades to shift value to other parts of the roster he bleeds value in order to fill the hole. Even Hall for Larsson and a 2nd would have at the very least helped the org retain a bit of value.

  130. blainer says:

    Trading Drai would be a big mistake.. the minute we trade Drai we will regret it as the topic for next next year will then be we need to trade for a big skilled Center as it would quickly become a major weakness. You can’t trade this player. They are extremely difficult players to acquire.

    The contract price is done and I for one can live with the extra 1million as I am very confident he will get back on track next year.

    The most important pieces to get are a top backup to challenge Tabs.. a skilled winger.. a PK specialist and hopefully JP gets it going on the PP..

    I would also like to see Nurse get some top PP time the rest of the season as well.

    Drai will be just fine folks.

  131. hunter1909 says:

    Jethro Tull: Also, the rest of the NHLPA would be pissed – you have the chance to set the standard for higher pay scale for performance, and you left money on the table? and I believe that would be collusion.

    Nice. So a “union” of multi-millionaires in effect drives the league’s contract negotiations; sadly you’re 100% right.

  132. hunter1909 says:

    Sighduck: Even Hall for Larsson and a 2nd would have at the very least helped the org retain a bit of value.

    With respect, I have no recollection of the Oilers ever not throwing away their 2nd round picks – usually on idiotic reach picks.

  133. Mike says:

    *** hey guys,

    I just wanted to apologize for the the extremely harsh and instant response about any comments yesterday with respect to Craig MacT. I am sorry I unhinged, family has been hurt beyond measure by such things. But none of you did that or endorse it. I have been reading here since I was a teen, and know that even the people who supported MacT I know by reading the many messages posted that your good people. So I’m truly sorry to have acted like that over some bland remarks, where I’m sure we probably would agree on most things with respect to the topic.

    LT I am sorry once again, I upended your place of peace and conversation. I am sorry for the extra troubles of cleaning up the board as well, truly sorry. ( no response is asked, expected or deserved)

    I will let you guys and gals continue the excellent debates and I will go back to just the enjoyment of spending time reading here. Best wishes in the new year to you all. Once again I apologize to the people I hurt or offended. I think/hope you know who you are and I know what I did was in bad taste to say the least.

  134. Thinker says:

    It’s sort of funny that the union pushes for larger salaries, when, unlike the real world, it’s a zero sum game (At least any given year). More money for McDavid means less money for middling players or which there are way more.

  135. bendelson says:

    Solid post Mike.

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    thehop:
    Slepy>>>Pak

    I just don’t understand this team.Clevland Browns of the NHL.. Your Edmonton Oilers.

    Pak has been recalled because putting Nuge on IR creates a roster spot – that doesn’t necessarily mean Pak will be in the lineup over Slep.

    With that said:

    1) the next 3 games are at home
    2) the Oilers PK at home has been historically awful
    3) the historically awful PK is one of the main reasons the Oilers have lost so many hockey games
    4) Pakarian kills penalties and Slepyshev doesn’t
    5) Pakarinan, as per the stats, has been one of the Oilers better penalthy killers this year
    6) our coach is Todd McLellan

  137. Pouzar says:

    thehop:
    Slepy>>>Pak

    I just don’t understand this team.Clevland Browns of the NHL.. Your Edmonton Oilers.

    maddening.

    50 pts back and this is the call up.

  138. JimmyV1965 says:

    Does anyone even know what’s wrong with RNH? If it’s his head or concussion I’m going to lose my shit.

  139. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Pak has been recalled because putting Nuge on IR creates a roster spot – that doesn’t necessarily mean Pak will be in the lineup over Slep.

    With that said:

    1) the next 3 games are at home
    2) the Oilers PK at home has been historically awful
    3) the historically awful PK is one of the main reasons the Oilers have lost so many hockey games
    4) Pakarian kills penalties and Slepyshev doesn’t
    5) Pakarinan, as per the stats, has been one of the Oilers better penalthy killers this year
    6) our coach is Todd McLellan

    The season is over. Pak isn’t going to change that. What scares the shit outta me is that
    he along with the other TMc favs will be on this team next year.

  140. Scungilli Slushy says:

    blainer:
    Trading Drai would be a big mistake.. the minute we trade Drai we will regret it as the topic for next next year will then be we need to trade for a big skilled Center as it would quickly become a major weakness. You can’t trade this player. They are extremely difficult players to acquire.

    The contract price is done and I for one can live with the extra 1million as I am very confident he will get back on track next year.

    The most important pieces to get are a top backup to challenge Tabs.. a skilled winger.. a PK specialist and hopefully JP gets it going on the PP..

    I would also like to see Nurse get some top PP time the rest of the season as well.

    Drai will be just fine folks.

    It seems that trading away your best players doesn’t usually make the team better. Just something I’ve noticed about the league 😀

  141. ashley says:

    blainer:
    Trading Drai would be a big mistake.. the minute we trade Drai we will regret it as the topic for next next year will then be we need to trade for a big skilled Center as it would quickly become a major weakness. You can’t trade this player. They are extremely difficult players to acquire.

    The contract price is done and I for one can live with the extra 1million as I am very confident he will get back on track next year.

    The most important pieces to get are a top backup to challenge Tabs.. a skilled winger.. a PK specialist and hopefully JP gets it going on the PP..

    I would also like to see Nurse get some top PP time the rest of the season as well.

    Drai will be just fine folks.

    Drai has negative trade value. We would have to retain money to get anything back of use. Or take on someone else’s bad contract. And then we are not getting any further ahead as we are still spending extra money on a bad contract. It’s a shame to have to discuss these things when the ink is still drying.

    The play in the summer was hard negotiation or trade. He’s a very valuable player and would have garnered a healthy “package of assets” (channeling KLowe), but man we needed some of that money for other pieces.

    These are the kinds of decisions that kill a team’s competitiveness. Far more than the trades we agonize about.

  142. hunter1909 says:

    Okay if the Oilers play a 5 game homestand and we want to imagine “there’s still a chance” I guess they need to get at least 7- 8 out of 10 points.

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sighduck:
    I think the whole league is waiting to see how Toronto deals with their ‘big 3’ (Nylander, Matthews, and Marner). IMO those deals will either prove Chia as an iffy at best negotiator or a change in the way this league pays stars.

    I haven’t followed that closely but haven’t both Nylander and Marner kind of had up and down seasons and, overall, fallen a bit short of expectations? Their contracts might not be as high as we were speculating a few months ago.

    Matthews is going to get paid – he’ll be over $10M – somewhere between $10M and $12,499,500.

  144. 106 and 106 says:

    McDavid

    Leon

    Strome/Khaira

    Letestu

    *Shudders

  145. bendelson says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Does anyone even know what’s wrong with RNH? If it’s his head or concussion I’m going to lose my shit.

    Shoulder injury, no?

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pouzar: maddening.

    50 pts back and this is the call up.

    I don’t believe anyone in the organization has stated that Pakarinan will play on Saturday and Slepyshev will sit.

    I don’t think you’d suggest they leave the roster spot open, do you?

  147. godot10 says:

    Draisaitl is having a better even strength season than last year (on a per game basis). Even though he is being yanked back and forth between centre and wing, and even though he had a concussion to recover from. Why are people bashing him?

    Draisaitl’s power play numbers are down, but he is NOT primarily responsible for the power play. McLellan and BoyWonderCroft are primarily responsible for the horrible power play. And then McDavid and Klefbom, the players who the power play runs through. The scheme is horrid.

    This is just McLellan misusing another player again, and not maximizing the potential of a player because of dumb coaching decisions.

    Too many of you guys give the coaching a free pass for what has happened to this team.

    McLellan has failed to maximize Hall, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, Pouliot, Lander. Even Lucic is a ghost of his former self.

    Draisaitl is a stud.

  148. Cassandra says:

    Thinker,

    No team in the NHL would trade for Lucic without significant salary retained and/or a bad contract coming back.

    That contract had negative value the day it was signed. It is worth less than a 7th round pick. If the Oilers are able to trade him and get any kind of value back I will eat crow for the rest of my days, and that is even considering the morbid stupidity that passes for most NHL general managers. Even they aren’t dumb enough to pay Lucic six million of years for the rest of his (and their) career.

  149. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Does anyone even know what’s wrong with RNH? If it’s his head or concussion I’m going to lose my shit.

    Nope – its been the bye week – not sure if the coaches are prohibited from doing things like interviews like the players are but we didn’t hear from them.

    The only info I have heard was:

    1) McLellan after the game saying he’s got some bruising and should be OK coming out of the bye week

    2) a tweet from Rishaug mid-week basically saying the same thing but expressing no concussion – just bruising.

    Lets not forget, IR retroactive to last Saturday could mean he just misses the one game on Sat night – assuming the 5 bye days count as days towards the min 7 days on IR.

    It would be a bit odd if they rule him out for Saturday this early if its not something a bit more serious though.

  150. Dicky94 says:

    Pouzar,

    I’m surprised it took this long. TMac loves Pak and it’s the reason why Slepy is on the way out. Unbelievable. I can’t wait to see him chasing the puck around Saturday.

  151. McSorley33 says:

    thehop,

    So the idea I’m throwing out there…to use Drai to address those issues…. Is not worth talking about?

    How do the Oilers address those issues and come out on top then?
    ********************************************************************************
    I hear you.

    If we trade Drai to address other needs that can be playing whack a mole .
    Our C’s become a weakness especially with injuries- – see Nuge.

    I mean – not 100% against it – if a GM were to offer enough….

    But, PC is our GM so, I don’t trust him trading any more key pieces.

  152. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10:
    Draisaitl is having a better even strength season than last year (on a per game basis).Even though he is being yanked back and forth between centre and wing, and even though he had a concussion to recover from.Why are people bashing him?

    Draisaitl’s power play numbers are down, but he is NOT primarily responsible for the power play.McLellan and BoyWonderCroft are primarily responsible for the horrible power play.And then McDavid and Klefbom, the players who the power play runs through.The scheme is horrid.

    This is just McLellan misusing another player again, and not maximizing the potential of a player because of dumb coaching decisions.

    Too many of you guys give the coaching a free pass for what has happened to this team.

    McLellan has failed to maximize Hall, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, Pouliot, Lander.Even Lucic is a ghost of his former self.

    Draisaitl is a stud.

    Whoa – I actually agree with you on Drai – lets also not forget the wingers he’s been asked to carry when playing center.

    He isn’t playing near as well as we’ve seen him play and still producing very well at center with middling wingers.

    It excites me: once he starts playing well, the man is a beast at center ice.

  153. Cassandra says:

    Sighduck:
    I think the whole league is waiting to see how Toronto deals with their ‘big 3’ (Nylander, Matthews, and Marner). IMO those deals will either prove Chia as an iffy at best negotiator or a change in the way this league pays stars.

    Pastrnak signed after Draisatl. The evidence is already in.

    Remember when we used to laugh at the Bruins.

    Mathews is in a different category, but if Marner or Nylander sign for anything like 8.5 M that will demonstrate the incompetence of the Leafs, it won’t vindicate Chiarelli.

    There is always a choice. Chiarelli made his and nothing that happens in the future can vindicate him. We know everything we need to know.

  154. McSorley33 says:

    Tmac – you can’t be serious!

    Pak?

    Ha…..too funny.

  155. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t believe anyone in the organization has stated that Pakarinan will play on Saturday and Slepyshev will sit.

    I don’t think you’d suggest they leave the roster spot open, do you?

    Do you honestly think Slepy will play over Pak?

    Come on man.

  156. leadfarmer says:

    McSorley33:
    Just came across an article about Minny really regretting the price they paid on deadline day for Hanzal….

    Curious to see what the buyers are willing to pay at this deadline.

    We have a much younger 3rd line center in Strome. Id be cool with a first and second.
    Its amazing how some gms will talk themselves into bad trades thinking they are going to win the cup

  157. Cassandra says:

    A lot of good criticism of Chiarelli in this thread.

    What is interesting is that all of these criticisms were true this summer. Where were all of you then?

    Nothing of significance has changed since then. The failure of the Oilers this seasons should have changed no one’s mind.

    Likewise, when the Oilers do better next year (and they will) that will not present a vindication of the path.

  158. ArmchairGM says:

    Rondo:
    Chiarelli is not a good GM, I would not trust him doing anything good at the trade deadline. Given his track record getting something right is an aberration. He does not know how to value a player.

    I don’t know who would be his replacement. But they need to stop the bleeding.
    Chiarelli’s philosophy is so a decade ago.

    If Chiarelli sticks to selling pending UFA’s at the TDL, he’ll do just fine. History tells us that he’s quite adept at brokering small deals; one that hasn’t come up here this week is the Cammalleri – Jokinen swap. Jokinen was placed on waivers by LA (and claimed by CLB) – the fact that Chiarelli got an actual player for him is to his credit. If you’re expecting Chiarelli to target Hoffman or Patches at the deadline then yes, you will be disappointed with the price.

  159. Pouzar says:

    Dicky94:
    Pouzar,

    I’m surprised it took this long. TMac loves Pak and it’s the reason why Slepy is on the way out. Unbelievable. I can’t wait to see him chasing the puck around Saturday.

    I get the whole PK argument for Pak but the season is done.
    They could be trying to pump up the value of an actual NHL prospect but yet they
    let him rot in the pressbox.

  160. JD_Wry says:

    Pouzar: Come on man.

    Don’t want him to get injured and miss out on that sweet 6th round pick coming back when he’s traded.

  161. commonfan29 says:

    YKOil: Play Slepy every chance I get (agreed)

    If you want that to happen, you forgot the step where you fire the coach.

    John Chambers:

    I have a theory where, say, Vancouver approached Drai with a $9.5M x 8 offer.

    Except nobody else could have offered him more than 7 years. An advantage that Chia failed to capitalize on.

  162. ChiliChunk says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Does anyone even know what’s wrong with RNH? If it’s his head or concussion I’m going to lose my shit.

    Jim Matheson

    @NHLbyMatty
    45m45 minutes ago
    More
    Problem with Nugent-Hopkins isn’t his shoulder or a concussion. Minor stuff, but he’s on IR, so Pakarinen recalled

    Jim Matheson

    @NHLbyMatty
    2m2 minutes ago
    More
    RNH has a bruised sternum. Not a serious problem

  163. Dicky94 says:

    Pouzar,

    Ya it doesn’t make sense. Seems to be the theme this year.

  164. thehop says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Sorry.. I’m not going back down that road.

    I get it.. You don’t value the player as much as some of us. And you are more than welcome to itemize the reasons you think Pak is a better call up than Slepy.

    I don’t agree with you.. It seems likely that I won’t ever agree with you on the front.

    I enjoy watching the teams best players play. Slepyshev is a better player than Pakarinen all day everyday, no matter the circumstance.

    I also take heart in the idea that championship teams draft a develop players like Slepy. They also afford them opportunities when injuries have opened a spot. Personally, I’d love to watch a 23 year old skilled, fast winger get some ice time.

    It’s not like the Oilers don’t need a guy like that.

    They have Pakarinen.

  165. bendelson says:

    bendelson: Shoulder injury, no?

    No.

  166. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pouzar: Do you honestly think Slepy will play over Pak?

    Come on man.

    Yup – I could see Slep in the lineup on Saturday. Could be Pak for sure – guess we’ll find out tomorrow or Saturday.

  167. jtblack says:

    Cassandra:
    A lot of good criticism of Chiarelli in this thread.

    What is interesting is that all of these criticisms were true this summer.Where were all of you then?

    Nothing of significance has changed since then.The failure of the Oilers this seasons should have changed no one’s mind.

    Likewise, when the Oilers do better next year (and they will) that will not present a vindication of the path.

    They were all predicting a100+ point season …. Look no further than Hunters Poll ….

  168. OriginalPouzar says:

    ChiliChunk: Jim Matheson

    @NHLbyMatty45m45 minutes ago
    More
    Problem with Nugent-Hopkins isn’t his shoulder or a concussion. Minor stuff, but he’s on IR, so Pakarinen recalled

    Jim Matheson

    @NHLbyMatty2m2 minutes ago
    More
    RNH has a bruised sternum. Not a serious problem

    Good stuff – As I said, if the 5 days on the bye week count towards the min time on IR (7 days), then Nuge could only miss 1 game.

  169. Pouzar says:

    thehop,

    18 games.

    5 on 5 CF% Rel

    Player One: 1.5
    Player Two: -9.5

  170. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yup – I could see Slep in the lineup on Saturday. Could be Pak for sure – guess we’ll find out tomorrow or Saturday.

    I smell a bet.

  171. flea says:

    Having Nuge out forces the coaching staff to do some things we’ve all been waiting for them to do.

    1. split up Connor and Leon
    2. Give Leon so decent linemates to work with instead of third liners.

    19 – 97 – 98
    27 – 29 – 58?
    91 – 16 – 18

    And we have the NHL’s best 4th line to round that lineup out, so that’s solid.

    Could see Strome getting a push here as well.

    I’m interested to see this team sans Nuge. considering Chia is going to trade him for Dumba this summer.

  172. OriginalPouzar says:

    thehop:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Sorry.. I’m not going back down that road.

    I get it.. You don’t value the player as much as some of us. And you are more than welcome to itemize the reasons you think Pak is a better call up than Slepy.

    I don’t agree with you.. It seems likely that I won’t ever agree with you on the front.

    I enjoy watching the teams best players play. Slepyshev is a better player than Pakarinen all day everyday, no matter the circumstance.

    I also take heart in the idea that championship teams draft a develop players like Slepy. They also afford them opportunities when injuries have opened a spot. Personally, I’d love to watch a 23 year old skilled, fast winger get some ice time.

    It’s not like the Oilers don’t need a guy like that.

    They have Pakarinen.

    You are inferring things that I’ve never said.

    Pakarinan did not get called up over Slepyshev – Slepyshev is already on the roster.

    People are freaking out about Pak being recalled but the team isn’t going to keep a roster spot open for no reason – they filled it with Pakarinan.

    Our coach has not told us who will play on Saturday – could be Pak, could be Slep, could be both.

    People are already penning in Pak because the “coach loves him and hates Slep” – well, the coach signed off on Pak being in the minors for the last month and Slep being in the NHL. Yup, Slep could easily have been in the minors (for longer than a few days) in favor of Pak if the coach really wanted.

    I have professed my opinion that I think it will be Slep and that it should be Slep but also pointed out that one thing Pak brings that Slep doesn’t is good play on the PK.

  173. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: They were all predictinga100+ point season …. Look no further than Hunters Poll ….

    I predicted 93.

  174. meanashell11 says:

    ashley: Drai has negative trade value. We would have to retain money to get anything back of use.Or take on someone else’s bad contract.And then we are not getting any further ahead as we are still spending extra money on a bad contract.It’s a shame to have to discuss these things when the ink is still drying.

    The play in the summer was hard negotiation or trade.He’s a very valuable player and would have garnered a healthy “package of assets” (channeling KLowe), but man we needed some of that money for other pieces.

    These are the kinds of decisions that kill a team’s competitiveness.Far more than the trades we agonize about.

    This is mind-boggling.

    I have seen some pretty silly things on the internet and some pretty dumb things.

    Does anyone want cake?

  175. Dicky94 says:

    flea,

    Paks number isn’t 58.

  176. Sighduck says:

    hunter1909: With respect, I have no recollection of the Oilers ever not throwing away their 2nd round picks – usually on idiotic reach picks.

    Can we just give Mitch Moroz a few more years?

  177. Side says:

    jtblack: They were all predictinga100+ point season …. Look no further than Hunters Poll ….

    Not really related at all.

    One can be a critic of Chiarelli and expect the Oilers to have a 100+ point season.

    Unless you think Eberle and Pouliot were the backbone of the team.

    This forum has turned into a competition to see who can hate Chiarelli/TMac/the Oilers Org the most.

    And also started a competition to see who hated Chiarelli/TMac/the Oilers Org. before it was cool.

    It’s so pathetic, it’s comedic.

  178. thehop says:

    Pouzar,

    I farted

  179. Sighduck says:

    Cassandra,

    So if Nylander and Marner sign for Drai money does Pastrnak not become the outlier?

  180. thehop says:

    Pouzar,

    But he kills penalties….

  181. leadfarmer says:

    meanashell11: This is mind-boggling.

    I have seen some pretty silly things on the internet and some pretty dumb things.

    Does anyone want cake?

    Yeah thats pretty ridiculous. The only reason to trade Drai is because we already have a #1 and #2 Center locked up and 8.5 mil is a lot of money for a piece that while great to have we dont necessarily need especially give giant roster holes elsewhere. There are multiple teams that need a #1 C which Drai without a doubt is and would be quite content paying 8.5 mil per.

  182. ArmchairGM says:

    thehop:
    Connoreah,

    Who’s saying he’s a problem??

    I didn’t.

    I am saying I believe the Oilers cannot win a cup in five years or less with the current prospect pool and the team make up as it stand.

    I am advocating the possibility of trading Draisaitl in a 3 for 1 deal to address the obvious lack of skilled wingers and a RHD.

    BALANCE

    The problem I have with that is that we don’t have any decent centers in the organization beyond the Big 3. We’d go from having the best C depth in the league to having below average C depth. Not good… I suggest signing some cheap, veteran wingers over the summer (Hornqvist? Grabner? Maybe even Rick Nash?) and making a LHD>RHD swap. If management can target prospects at the deadline instead of picks (say Maroon for Kyrou instead of Maroon for 2018 2nd) that will help fill some of these holes too.

  183. Pouzar says:

    thehop:
    Pouzar,

    But he kills penalties….

    I can’t wait till he is pencilled in with SAK on Line 4 next year.

  184. StixMalone says:

    Sighduck:
    Cassandra,

    So if Nylander and Marner sign for Drai money does Pastrnak not become the outlier?

    You gotta remember who their GM is. Lou can negotiate like no other. He won’t cave or panic. I wouldn’t want to be an agent going up against him….

  185. ArmchairGM says:

    RNH on IR, Pakarinen recalled. Damn!!

  186. leadfarmer says:

    I know our prospect list is poor, but holy crap that Athletic article goes through some pretty crazy gymnastics to make a point that our prospect pool is crap. Yes the Jets are masters at the draft and we know that and the Canucks have a great prospect list led by that one guy that me and LT were going crazy about last year, but that article goes far beyond whats necessary to show our prospect pool isnt good.

  187. thehop says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Sure….

    Based on past posts regarding Slepy I don’t think my inferring was out of touch knowing what I know about the player you think Slepyshev is.

    And I think it’s unlikely Pakarinen gets called up and doesn’t play. But who knows what The coach is thinking. I’ve got no fucking clue.

  188. leadfarmer says:

    Sighduck:
    Cassandra,

    So if Nylander and Marner sign for Drai money does Pastrnak not become the outlier?

    I really hope they sign Marner to Drai money. How can we make Chia take over the Leafs before the offseason

  189. thehop says:

    Pouzar,

    Blasphemy

  190. Sighduck says:

    StixMalone: You gotta remember who their GM is. Lou can negotiate like no other. He won’t cave or panic. I wouldn’t want to be an agent going up against him….

    Fair point, in my mind those contracts are really the last hope in defending Chias negotiating skills or lack thereof. As much as 8.5 for Drai will be fine in 3-4 years it will be difficult to watch his comparables paid 1-2 million less

  191. thehop says:

    ArmchairGM,

    Hearing a lot of noise about Maroon at the deadline on TSN today. History suggests we get less than full value no matter where he goes. I’m not familiar with St.Louis’s prospects but I wouldn’t be suprised if was just a 2nd.

    For my money, I prefer a big trade( one the Oilers win) as opposed to trying to pick up the talent from free agency. I also don’t value having the current centre depth at the expense of a balanced team.

  192. VOR says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Read with interest yesterday about the general opinion of needing a retool over a rebuild; one theme was present throughout the thread – not making trades to do it.

    “Can’t trade picks, need to restock AHL shelves.”

    “Can’t trade that prospect, because I personally like him.”

    “Can’t trade that guy, he’s going to be really good.In about three years.Maybe.”

    Can’t trade that guy, because who else will take FO on the 4th line.”

    Just wondered if anyone actually has a plan of how they would proceed from now to opening FO 2018/19 season?How would you restock the prospects?How would you address NHL team needs?

    An try to keep it realistic – No “Rights to Omark” trade.(For the uninitiated, back when we thought Shae Weber was the cat’s meow, a lot of speculative trades involved the right to Olympian Omark.

    Jethro, my plan follows. It is presented in multiple parts. Part 1 is what I would do in the near term: here to the end of the season including the trade deadline. The second part covers free agency. The final part looks beyond this year.

    Everything is based on a vision I have of a different sort of hockey team. My Oilers would have horses for courses. You want to goon it up we will leave you bleeding on the ice, if you want to grind we will pulverize you into dust. Want to run and gun we will routinely put up double digits in goals. Want to clog up the center of the ice we will blast through gaps you didn’t even know existed.

    Not only are we big and mean we are ungodly fast and play even faster. Yes we lead the NHL in mistakes. We also lead it in goals scored. We play up tempo high intensity hockey.

    I have already talked about my first two steps in this process.

    Trade 1. Patrick Maroon and the Oilers 2nd in 2019 for Warren Foegele and Roland McKeown.

    NYCoil pointed out he didn’t think Carolina would do this trade. I think they would because Carolina’s management has made it clear they think they are close but need veteran leadership, more goal scoring and a guy who is a bit over the edge. Preferably with experience in the playoffs. And they want him/them cheap (low dollar). Maroon fits the bill.

    Think of this as Maroon for Foegele who is ripping up the AHL but is blocked in Carolina and doesn’t have draft pedigree on his side. Then the 2019 second is for McKeown, a RD prospect who is NHL ready..

    My second trade would be Ryan Strome and the first in 2019 to Phoenix for Lawson Crouse.

    For those of you who don’t know Foegele and McKeown are great skaters. Crouse is a dominating physical presence in the AHL,

    Now at this point everyone probably thinks I am crazy but in both trades I am asking for throw ins in trade one I want Carolina’s 7th round pick in 2018 nd 7th in 2019. In the Crouse trade I want a 4th and a 5th in each of the next 2 drafts.

    Then at the deadline I am moving Mark Letestu for a fourth in 2018 and Cammy and Montoya for a 7th and a 5th in 2019.

    More to follow.

  193. Thinker says:

    VOR: Jethro, my plan follows. It is presented in multiple parts. Part 1 is what I would do in the near term: here to the end of the season including the trade deadline. The second part covers free agency. The final part looks beyond this year.

    Everything is based on a vision I have of a different sort of hockey team. My Oilers would have horses for courses. You want to goon it up we will leave you bleeding on the ice, if you want to grind we will pulverize you into dust. Want to run and gun we will routinely put up double digits in goals. Want to clog up the center of the ice we will blast through gaps you didn’t even know existed.

    Not only are we big and mean we are ungodly fast and play even faster. Yes we lead the NHL in mistakes. We also lead it in goals scored. We play up tempo high intensity hockey.

    I have already talked about my first two steps in this process.

    Trade 1. Patrick Maroon and the Oilers 2nd in 2019 for Warren Foegele and Roland McKeown.

    NYCoil pointed out he didn’t think Carolina would do this trade. I think they would because Carolina’s management has made it clear they think they are close but need veteran leadership, more goal scoring and a guy who is a bit over the edge. Preferably with experience in the playoffs. And they want him/them cheap (low dollar). Maroon fits the bill.

    Think of this as Maroon for Foegele who is ripping up the AHL but is blocked in Carolina and doesn’t have draft pedigree on his side. Then the 2019 second is for McKeown, a RD prospect who is NHL ready..

    My second trade would be Ryan Strome and the first in 2019 to Phoenix for Lawson Crouse.

    For those of you who don’t know Foegele and McKeown are great skaters. Crouse is a dominating physical presence in the AHL,

    Now at this point everyone probably thinks I am crazy but in both trades I am asking for throw ins in trade one I want Carolina’s 7th round pick in 2018 nd 7th in 2019. In the Crouse trade I want a 4th and a 5th in each of the next 2 drafts.

    Then at the deadline I am moving Mark Letestu for a fourth in 2018 and Cammy and Montoya for a 7th and a 5th in 2019.

    More to follow.

    What do you see in Lawson Crouse? I’m not sure I’d give another top 10 pick for him.

  194. Cassandra says:

    Sighduck:
    Cassandra,

    So if Nylander and Marner sign for Drai money does Pastrnak not become the outlier?

    There are other examples. Tarasenko, Johansen, Kuznetsov all signed for significantly less than Draisatl considering their contract status and performance.

    In any case, it doesn’t matter, because barring a second half for the ages, Marner and Nylander aren’t getting within 2 or 3 million of Draisatl money.

  195. Cassandra says:

    thehop:
    ArmchairGM,

    Hearing a lot of noise about Maroon at the deadline on TSN today. History suggests we get less than full value no matter where he goes. I’m not familiar with St.Louis’s prospects but I wouldn’t be suprised if was just a 2nd.

    For my money, I prefer a big trade( one the Oilers win) as opposed to trying to pick up the talent from free agency. I also don’t value having the current centre depth at the expense of a balanced team.

    I remind you that last year Jim Benning traded Jannik Hansen for Nikolay Goldobin and Alex Burrows for Jonathan Dahlen.

    A second round pick would be a massive disappointment considering established trade values.

  196. Cassandra says:

    Crowse has 13 pts in 23 games in the AHL.

    Trading a first round pick for a guy who tops out as a third line player is not how you build a good team.

  197. thehop says:

    Connoreah,

    Ok I’ll bite now that I’ve had some time to research…

    My hard target is Carolina.
    1.Faulk
    1.a Pesce
    2.Aho
    2a. Teravainen

    And one of
    Necas,Gauthier,Kuokannen,Foegele or McKeown

  198. thehop says:

    Cassandra,

    I concur. But I’m not expecting anything less.

  199. leadfarmer says:

    Cassandra:
    Crowse has 13 pts in 23 games in the AHL.

    Trading a first round pick for a guy who tops out as a third line player is not how you build a good team.

    Yeah might trade Strome alone for him. But definitely not a first rounder. That trade ensures we are sucking hind banana for a long time. Don’t see a player batting above 3rd line in him. Actually him and Dylan Strome are two guys that would trade for way more than they are worth and I would stay away

  200. leadfarmer says:

    One thing I do like that was uniformly despised on here, was the braintrust liked Heinen. Now the price was way too steep but at least we are learning how to identify players

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