Gone Fishing

Potential names for trade are now flying out the door from insiders to the hockey universe, allowing us to contemplate a possible future for the Edmonton Oilers. Based on verbal from multiple sources, men like Patrick Maroon and Mark Letestu may be heading out. Coming back? Some names of note, some names we have discussed in the past.

THE ATHLETIC!

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JOSH LEIVO

We have discussed Leivo in the past, he doesn’t play much but the production is there when opportunities arise. He’s 53gp, 10-11-21 in his career, has been productive 5×5 despite little work each season and could be a hidden gem. I know he doesn’t have blazing speed, but does offer a team inexpensive skill and has to be burning for his chance. I’ve written about him many times, including here.

MIKE HOFFMAN

Frank Seravalli of TSN has the Oilers as a player in the Hoffman sweepstakes, makes complete sense. He’s a volume shooter, is durable and has the boots. The only downside would be the pricetag and it looks like picks and prospects (and inexpensive NHL talent) are important to Ottawa. Bob Stauffer and Elliotte Friedman mentioned Zack Smith on Oilers Now Friday, perhaps we’re looking at a massive deal involving multiple players. Perhaps Ryan Strome, Drake Caggiula, Matt Benning and prospects could be cobbled together with Edmonton’s first-round pick this or next year being the centerpiece. Note: Smith’s inclusion may be a salary dump, as a penalty-killing option I don’t see him as a positive addition based on numbers.

JORDAN KYROU

The TSN trade board has him at No. 15 and the Blues have interest (reportedly) in Patrick Maroon. He has a great opportunity to win the OHL scoring championship and may be a plug-and-play for next season. If he’s available, Edmonton would be wise to have a long look at the ask.

50-MAN

  • Assuming management remains as is, I don’t think ownership (which might be Gretzky at this point) is going to sign off on a Nuge or Klefbom deal. First-round pick in 2018? Probably the most valuable trade bullet in the chamber.
  • Patrick Maroon out and Mike Hoffman in would be a net gain. If Edmonton gets a second rounder for Maroon and gives up a first for Hoffman, is that something you can live with?
  • Jesse Puljujarvi is an NHL regular now, where does he play next season? My answer is 1R or 2R, but there is a growing concern among fans (you’ve emailed me) that JP isn’t getting playing time with Connor McDavid. I’m going to write about that over at The Athletic this week, seems to me this would be the ideal time to see what chemistry exists between 97 and the young Finn.
  • Milan Lucic is a trigger name for many of you, I thought he was doing mostly good through about game 40. Since then, seems he’s trying too hard and not playing his own game. It’s very important to get him back to being a productive 5×5 player. Some of you are suggesting buyout, have you seen the bitter buyout numbers via CapFriendly? Holy lord.
  • In a way, my job is to find areas of interest on the Oilers roster, bring them to light, offer solutions and then we discuss. I have no solutions for the Oilers defensive situation, the Russell contract backs them into a corner and the NMC’s have them in a spot of bother. If the ownership says no to trading Oscar Klefbom, Adam Larsson and Darnell Nurse, Peter Chiarelli has left himself no daylight at all. In the more than 12 years I’ve been uncovering things to discuss about this team, no general manager has been as thorough in boxing himself in as Mr. Chiarelli. This is my opinion.

 

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233 Responses to "Gone Fishing"

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  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Although I would like to have either Hoffman or Max P. in our top 6, I still don’t think a trade makes sense from the Oilers points of view.

    The acquisition cost will be material and, frankly, as I’ve stated, I think the cap space (and possible acquisition assets) are better suited to fill the 1/2RD hole. I don’t see the ability to plug both holes this off-season, without moving out material cap. Its not a good idea to trade Nuge or Klef to make room for a winger and I don’t see us getting out from under Lucic or Russell to clear cap this spring.

    I think that we can fill the top 6 winger spots internally (in time) and, also, we require those spots to be filled by cheap contracts – ELC or 2nd contracts that are value contracts – that is our current cap structure.

    We have a gap until any prospects are ready to continue (subject to our 1st round pick and/or Yamamoto) and here is hoping that management can find a short term stop gap (similar to Vanek this past year).

    I would like management to focus on a 1/2RD as opposed to a top 6 scorer.

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    Could there be a Leivo plus for Maroon swap?

    I don’t think the Leafs are in the market for a forward like Maroon unless they are silly and trade pending UFA JVR prior to the deadline.

    Saving a JVR trade, I think they are looking at defence.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    Maroon in a deal for one of the top STL forward prospects is a no-brainer, if STL is willing.

    It doesn’t mean we can’t bring Maroon back in the off-season if there is a deal that makes sense.

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    I cannot get on board with giving up our 1st for Hoffman – not when the top 10 is so talented and deep and full of players at the positions we are weak at (scoring forward and RD).

    We need prospects for the future, a steady stream. I can’t get on board with trading the 1st round pick for anything short of a truly established top 4 RHD signed with term.

    I cannot get on board trading the 1st round pick for an aging scoring winger – not when we can fill that hole internally over the next few years – I’d rather fill it with a stop-gab (i.e. Vanek) for a year while our prospects develop.

  5. dustrock says:

    Now Dellow talking about Montreal may be able to trade Weber. Naturally people start thinking “Edmonton sounds about right”.

  6. Gret99zky says:

    I’d like to see TMc staple McDavid and Puljujärvi together, as well as, Drai and Lucic together for the remainder of the season.

    Get those pairs working now so they are ready to go next season.

  7. 36 percent body fat says:

    a lot of talent where oilers are picking and chia trade record with trading is not good.

    maroon and 2nd for kyrou if the blues make conference finals it becomes a 3rd finals a 4th cup a 5th.

    caggulia strome amd a 2nd for hofffman add more? if other gms value caggulia the way chia does he is worth a lot

    letestu at deadline for a 3rd or 4th or what ever.

    cammelerri same thing.

    call up rattie and see what he has in him

    get rid of stanton fayne lowe gryba

    auvitu and davidson can hold the depth up.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    I said it at the time (as did many others) – the Russell contract essentially locks our defence in for a while – it precludes the ability to improve via external acquisition (unless we are trading away a core piece such as Nurse or Klefbom) to do it.

  9. Jethro Tull says:

    Once again, we’re back to sniffing around every player that has a pulse and can’t hack it with their current team. We need a scorer. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade! We need to replace Eberle. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade. We need PKers, guys who can shoot, guys who can play a mildy competent NHL game. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade!

    If Leivo is the answer, then we’re asking the wrong questions my friends. And yet, when presented with an answer that makes sense (Mile Hoffman) we manage to collectively talk ourselves into thinking it’s a bad idea.

    Just like a few years ago, we knew that size was nothing without being able to actually play hockey, the same is true for speed. A lot of people are correct in saying we need more speed…..but these speedsters need to actually play hockey. See Caggiula. Speed is there……not sure about the hockey smarts, though.

    This thing is playing out like a Russian tragedy. We hoped for something different. But it turned out like always. *Stares wistfully out the window*

  10. Woogie63 says:

    Oilers defence is not problem imo

    Klefbom, Nurse and Larsson are terrific young top 4 dman.

    A healthy Sekera and Russell are established contributors who can play 4-6 roles

    Benning, Bear, Jones are reasonable bets to get better (arguably Benning has covered that bet)

  11. Rosco says:

    I would like to see a Barbeshev for Maroon swap… warm bodies who can help in any area please! We’ve found draft picks and cap space have been of little use to this team.

    Enjoy the game today Al and good luck to our Eagles! I’ll be at Barneys in Leduc with the old man (Pats fan 🙄) watching the game. Loser pays the tab… oh the joy of free bevies and a win would be too good.

  12. Gret99zky says:

    Re: Maroon

    I’d rather Chia find the next Maroon (effective player, value contract) rather than sign Patty to a $+4M X 4 extension.

  13. Jethro Tull says:

    dustrock:
    Now Dellow talking about Montreal may be able to trade Weber. Naturally people start thinking “Edmonton sounds about right”.

    And yet, with salary retained and the right prospect heading the other way, he is exactly what we need. His muffin shot is Schultz’ slapper.

  14. Dino says:

    I hope the Oilers target underachieving good players this offseason. They might come cheaper than usual because of a bad season. Players like Cam Atkinson, Andre Burakovsky, Ryan Spooner, Mike Hoffman, Charlie Coyle and on a grander scale Nicklaus Backstrom (although I doubt they trade him for peanuts). These are all fantastic players having mediocre or bad seasons by their own standards who might be up for grabs because of terrible PDO. They’re all players that will likely bounce back and regress to the meat by next season and all players we could use on this talent depleted roster.

  15. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dino:
    I hope the Oilers target underachieving good players this offseason. They might come cheaper than usual because of a bad season. Players like Cam Atkinson, Andre Burakovsky, Ryan Spooner, Mike Hoffman, Charlie Coyle and on a grander scale Nicklaus Backstrom (although I doubt they trade him for peanuts). These are all fantastic players having mediocre or bad seasons by their own standards who might be up for grabs because of terrible PDO. They’re all players that will likely bounce back and regress to the meat by next season and all players we could use on this talent depleted roster.

    Sounds similar to Eberle last year….

  16. innercitysmytty says:

    Woogie63,

    Agree 100% with this comment. Could they use on improvement on RD? Sure, but barring injury, starting next year and moving forward the D should be at least middle of the pack playoff calibre, and may improve as the guys in the AHL matriculate. Injury and deployment have had a major impact on the effectiveness of the D this year.

    We need to improve our F group in 2-3 spots before we worry about the D at this point. And as OP says, ideally these improvements on F are with value contracts as much as possible. I like the idea of Hoffman as long as you get him without giving up the 1st, but then you’ll also need to trim the fat elsewhere up front.

  17. Scungilli Slushy says:

    I’m ready for Paul Fenton as GM.

  18. zatch says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Literally everything I’ve read about this draft says it’s not particularly good/below average. This top 10 is, taken as a whole, unremarkable, especially where Edmonton is likely to pick (outside top 3).

    This seems like a good year to move the pick.

  19. dustrock says:

    zatch:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Literally everything I’ve read about this draft says it’s not particularly good/below average. This top 10 is, taken as a whole, unremarkable, especially where Edmonton is likely to pick (outside top 3).

    This seems like a good year to move the pick.

    Yeah the Oilers prospect pool badly needs more talent, but do you think the Oilers will be bottom 10 if they grab someone like Hoffman?

    Outside of the top 8-10 I’m not salivating over the first round.

  20. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Although I would like to have either Hoffman or Max P. in our top 6, I still don’t think a trade makes sense from the Oilers points of view.

    The acquisition cost will be material and, frankly, as I’ve stated, I think the cap space (and possible acquisition assets) are better suited to fill the 1/2RD hole.I don’t see the ability to plug both holes this off-season, without moving out material cap.Its not a good idea to trade Nuge or Klef to make room for a winger and I don’t see us getting out from under Lucic or Russell to clear cap this spring.

    I think that we can fill the top 6 winger spots internally (in time) and, also, we require those spots to be filled by cheap contracts – ELC or 2nd contracts that are value contracts – that is our current cap structure.

    We have a gap until any prospects are ready to continue (subject to our 1st round pick and/or Yamamoto) and here is hoping that management can find a short term stop gap (similar to Vanek this past year).

    I would like management to focus on a 1/2RD as opposed to a top 6 scorer.

    The bone I have to pick with evaluating 1/2RD as the issue to solve, is that this same group of D worked just fine for us last year. The 2+4 pairing ran hot, but that’s okay.

    The problem if twofold: first, if you’re allergic to giving up actual assets to get assets, a top four RHD costs more than a winger.

    Second: The team’s biggest difference, from last year, is it is short wingers, not defensemen. And this is a draft with defensemen anyways.

    Neither Ottawa or Montreal is getting a top 5 pick for their guy. No way we have to bid that high. We’ll be flush with assets if Strome and Maroon can be offloaded. It’s not gonna hurt that bad.

  21. flyfish1168 says:

    If Jordan Kyrou can be had for Patty I would be interested. Speedster, RHC and skilled. We need this if both Letestu and Strome are gone next year. This player would add skill and speed that we really need.

  22. Glass says:

    zatch,

    Our best RD is Larsson, who is essentially a second pairing RD playing about his head. Shut down D, it’s all he’s good for. I still like the player though.

    There are plenty of good puck moving RD at the top of this draft. I hate the ‘we need a 18 year old that can contribute next year’. How about, build a competitive team and make them fight for a spot.

  23. Wilde says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Once again, we’re back to sniffing around every player that has a pulse and can’t hack it with their current team. We need a scorer. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade! We need to replace Eberle. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade. We need PKers, guys who can shoot, guys who can play a mildy competent NHL game. Hurray, Leivo has asked for a trade!

    If Leivo is the answer, then we’re asking the wrong questions my friends. And yet, when presented with an answer that makes sense (Mile Hoffman) we manage to collectively talk ourselves into thinking it’s a bad idea.

    Just like a few years ago, we knew that size was nothing without being able to actually play hockey, the same is true for speed. A lot of people are correct in saying we need more speed…..but these speedsters need to actually play hockey. See Caggiula.Speed is there……not sure about the hockey smarts, though.

    This thing is playing out like a Russian tragedy. We hoped for something different. But it turned out like always. *Stares wistfully out the window*

    Yeah man, that’s what was said.

    It was, we need a scoring winger, get Josh Leivo!!!

    Except no. In reality, it was we need:

    –a scoring winger
    –a rhd
    –help for the bottom lineup wing

    And people are suggesting Leivo for a solution to the third problem, not the first.

  24. Bling says:

    Great post, LT.

    The Oilers are boxed in, but there is daylight yet for Chia. It’a not often that chances at redemption come around, yet here it is, and there isn’t a GM in the league who deserves it less.

    Kyrou and Hoffman/Pacioretty can solve the winger problem.

    Strome/Maroon/Caggs//Slepy/Jones/Bear/Mantha/Benson should all be on the table, as should Sekera if he agrees to waive his NMC. Yamamoto is off limits IMO.

  25. Bling says:

    From St. Louis’ perspective, if Kyrou is available, why opt for Maroon if Patches and Hoffman are in play?

    We’ll see if Chia can deliver, but I have my doubts.

  26. leeinvan says:

    Can we stop the lets give the farm away for Hoffman, is he a superstar , NO
    The Oilers could be drafting in the top 5, have we not learned that desperately swinging for the fences is a good idea.
    Remember when everyone was saying we should sign Lucic because that would totally make the team so much better, yeah how did that work out.
    Let some other team give the farm away for Hoffman and let them deal with the , why did we do that trade. Rinehart is a great example when you shop your 1st round pick , how great would Barzal be on the Oilers team right now.

  27. Diablo says:

    Jethro Tull: And yet, with salary retained and the right prospect heading the other way, he is exactly what we need. His muffin shot is Schultz’ slapper.

    Love the player, hate the contract even with salary retained – it runs forever and is impossible to buy out. Not sure that Weber will age as well as Chara has.

  28. Jethro Tull says:

    Bling:
    From St. Louis’ perspective, if Kyrou is available, why opt for Maroon if Patches and Hoffman are in play?

    We’ll see if Chia can deliver, but I have my doubts.

    Agreed; Chia needs to visualize telling Connor “we got you your scoring winger – it’s a)Josh Leivo, or b) it’s Hoffman/Patches.”

    Wilde,

    We have 3rd line wingers – they’re playing in the top 6. The Hoff or Patches pushes a player down to where he should be – which would have been what Ebs would have done this year.

  29. J-Bo says:

    No way I trade this year’s first! We absolutely need a constant flow of cheap young players in order to deal with the cap. Trading it for an expensive veteran would be crazy. We would be much better off hopefully grabbing a speedy scoring winger. Then within the next 3 years our top 6 could be looking fabulous and fast!

    Draisaitl – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Whalstrom – Nuge – Yamamoto
    Lucic – Strome – Maksimov
    Benson – Khaira – Kassian

    Hoffman would be a great get, but not at the cost of our top picks/prospects. His contract is only 2 more years and would likely be gone after that.

  30. Jethro Tull says:

    Diablo: Love the player, hate the contract even with salary retained – it runs forever and is impossible to buy out. Not sure that Weber will age as well as Chara has.

    Yeah, that was not one of Poiles best moves, but one applauds how he got out of it……

  31. Diablo says:

    Bling:
    From St. Louis’ perspective, if Kyrou is available, why opt for Maroon if Patches and Hoffman are in play?

    We’ll see if Chia can deliver, but I have my doubts.

    STL has no cap space. If they could fit a Pacioretty or Hoffman then a trade probably would have happened by now.

    Maroon is attractive cause he has proven he can play with skill, can play the physical grinding style that predominates in the playoffs, and does not require a cap dump to fit on another team’s roster. Plus he’s from STL and would likely look to sign there in the off-season … STL gets to test drive Maroon and see if he’s a fit on their roster before signing him to a long and expensive contract.

    If Chia can’t get one of Kyrou, Thomas, Klim or Thompson then he should not return as GM of the Oilers next season.

  32. D says:

    If Chia gets fired this year or next, does that effectively end his career as a GM in the NHL?

  33. Wilde says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Yeah, I’m pro-trade for the scoring winger as well, what I’m saying is you can believe we should get both, and I do, and I bet most people who are in favour of either are in favour of both.f

  34. OriginalPouzar says:

    innercitysmytty:
    Woogie63,

    Agree 100% with this comment. Could they use on improvement on RD? Sure, but barring injury, starting next year and moving forward the D should be at least middle of the pack playoff calibre, and may improve as the guys in the AHL matriculate. Injury and deployment have had a major impact on the effectiveness of the D this year.

    We need to improve our F group in 2-3 spots before we worry about the D at this point. And as OP says, ideally these improvements on F are with value contracts as much as possible. I like the idea of Hoffman as long as you get him without giving up the 1st, but then you’ll also need to trim the fat elsewhere up front.

    On the first point, I will disagree as I think its more important to fill the 1/2RD hole than the top 6W hole.

    Yes, we have great depth on the left defence side with Nurse, Klef, Sekera, Russell and Davidson, however, we simply do not have that on the right side as we have Larsson, Benning, Gryba.

    Larsson is best suited as a 2RD but has been forced to play 1RD and Benning, as of now, is no more than a 3RD. He’s had an uneven season (at best) playing up the lineup this year.

    There is a huge hole on 1/2RD and I think it must be plugged with a legit established top 4 RHD.

    Moving Russell or Sekera to their off-side to fill that hole is less than optimal in my opinion. We have a huge issue transitioning the puck with speed and/or efficiency and a leftie playing big minutes on the right side will not help that problem.

    We know Russell is a poor transitioner of the puck on the right side and Sekera has struggled there in the past (and had some success at the World Cup paired with Chara) but will ultimately be a weaker transitioner simply as a physical function of being on his back-hand to the middle.

    Further, I see no sure bets in the organization in the top 4 RHD – Bear is a decent bet to play in the NHL but he may never be anything more than a 3RD plus PP guy and he’s likely at least a year or two away. Mantha is likely a distant bell but also a year or so away.

    Yes, we have a hole at forward, clearly, but I see more “sure bets” for the top 6 winger position in our system and, frankly, they are easier to acquire via trade and signing than a top 4 RHD. Yamamoto is a good bet for the top 6 within a year or so. Benson a decent bet. Our 1st round pick this year could be an elite forward prospect. Maksimov and Safin are perculating, etc.

    At the end of the day, as you agreed, we need value contracts in the top 6 winger position and we have prospects that may be able to provide that value in the next few years. Hoffman would be very nice but he’s not a value contact and has potentially already started his decline – lets not forget, goals are scored by younger players – a player’s goal scoring numbers generally decline as they hit the late 20s.

  35. OriginalPouzar says:

    zatch:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Literally everything I’ve read about this draft says it’s not particularly good/below average. This top 10 is, taken as a whole, unremarkable, especially where Edmonton is likely to pick (outside top 3).

    This seems like a good year to move the pick.

    I’ve heard the exact opposite from every account.

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: The bone I have to pick with evaluating 1/2RD as the issue to solve, is that this same group of D worked just fine for us last year. The 2+4 pairing ran hot, but that’s okay.

    I don’t think I agree that it worked for us last year, at least not well enough, in particular in the playoffs.

    Our general manager said, expressly, at the end of the playoffs that our defensive group was not good enough to compete with the likes of ANA and NSH and needed to improve – he then went and re-signed Russell, essentially locking us in to the same group. So silly.

    Everything worked out perfectly for the group last year but this year we have seen with certainty what happens with even a little bit of an issue – Sekera is out and Klef is playing injured and the defence, as a group, is materially worse than last year, cannot defend, cannot PK and cannot transition the puck.

    I guess, if all our d-man play 75 plus games and are pretty much healthy when they play, its OK to compete, however, that simply isn’t going to happen and I think one more legit 1/2 RHD is important.

    I think fixing the winger hole is (1) easier and (2) potentially filled internally and (3) must be done with value contracts, not the acquisition of soon to be declining veterans.

  37. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Going into next year: Trade all ufa’s get what you can for draft
    At the draft use most of your picks to stock cupboard (bare)
    This summer sign 3 proven veteran cheap free agents on one year deals who
    are upgrades on our 12, 13, 14 forwards

    Unfortunately the Oilers are where they are and they have no trade pieces which they don’t badly need.
    Oilers need more players coming up from the farm. When is that going to start?

  38. J-Bo says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I’ve heard this year as a whole doesn’t have a lot of depth, but that there are excellent prospects until late in the first round. Edmonton will be picking in a position that could easily yield an impact player.

  39. slopitch says:

    In no world can the oilers afford to move the 2018 1st.

    Move Maroon. Move Letestu. Maybe acquire another maroon type (move a 3rd or 4th) but only after they get more picks. They screwed up and are now playing for 2019 or 2020. No need to buy now. With a good draft and the cap going up they are ina decent spot again. Like we were in 2015.

    Go Patriots!

  40. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t think I agree that it worked for us last year, at least not well enough, in particular in the playoffs.

    Our general manager said, expressly, at the end of the playoffs that our defensive group was not good enough to compete with the likes of ANA and NSH and needed to improve – he then went and re-signed Russell, essentially locking us in to the same group.So silly.

    Everything worked out perfectly for the group last year but this year we have seen with certainty what happens with even a little bit of an issue – Sekera is out and Klef is playing injured and the defence, as a group, is materially worse than last year, cannot defend, cannot PK and cannot transition the puck.

    I guess, if all our d-man play 75 plus games and are pretty much healthy when they play, its OK to compete, however, that simply isn’t going to happen and I think one more legit 1/2 RHD is important.

    I think fixing the winger hole is (1) easier and (2) potentially filled internally and (3) must be done with value contracts, not the acquisition of soon to be declining veterans.

    Mike Hoffman, and especially Max Pacioretty are on absolutely undeniable cherry contracts.

    If they’re not value, nobody outside an ELC is value.

    The winger hole on LW is not going to be filled internally, especially not at the level of these players, and again, undeniably not in the timeframe that these players will fill it. Pacioretty and Hoffman are not even going to be here by the time you can reasonably expect our LW prospects to emerge in the NHL, and that’s betting that they emerge at all in the first place.

    How is our NHL top 6 LW going to be filled internally next season? This is a next season problem with a next season solution.

    I’m not saying the D doesn’t need work. It does. But it wasn’t the difference in the Anaheim series, and everything else is hypothetical. If you’re quoting Chia as a proof of the D making the difference, and then berating his judgement, well I don’t know why you’d quote his judgement to bolster your argument.

    You probably(apologies if this is misrepresenting your argument) are in favour of signing a FA winger, and trading for a defenseman, no?

    I’d argue the exact opposite. Because a championship calibre 1/2LW is going to cost less than a championship calibre 1/2RD. I can draw up some reaslistic costs, for the 1.2RD acquisition, and I don’t think you’re going to like them

    And then there’s the killer: this is the perfect opportunity. Two silly Canadian GM’s are selling two prime assets, that match our needs and timing perfectly. Strike now.

  41. Jethro Tull says:

    slopitch,

    The cap increasing means absolutely nothing if you don’t spend to it.

    The saying on here, I believe, is “keeping your powder dry.” Which again means nothing if you never use that powder. It’ll never become more potent, or change what it is. The very best you can hope is that it doesn’t degrade.

    The problem is that we haven’t received fair market value in our last few big trades, which makes some think that there’s some sort of cosmic balance that must be redressed by having one of those trades go our way. In fact, they maintain that we shouldn’t trade unless this is so.

    I would be happy just having a trade where we give and get. Pros and cons on both sides, but addresses need.

    You undersold on your car – that’s on you. But expecting others to do the same?

  42. John Chambers says:

    dustrock,

    I was thinking the other day how Lucic nearly signed in Montreal, and thought there was a plausible trade scenario between the clubs:

    Edmonton sends Lucic and Nugent Hopkins to the centre-starved Habs for Weber and Galchenyuk.

    Money in equals money out.

    We trade cap-problem Lucic who agrees to play in Montreal for cap-problem Weber who at least is a top-4 RD (now) who brings the pp skillset. Weber would undoubtedly be teamed up with a speedy LD like Nurse.

    Nuge for Galchenyuk is a loss for the Oilers, but they gain a speedy LW in exchange for the Center the Habs covet.

  43. leadfarmer says:

    Diablo: STL has no cap space. If they could fit a Pacioretty or Hoffman then a trade probably would have happened by now.

    Maroon is attractive cause he has proven he can play with skill, can play the physical grinding style that predominates in the playoffs, and does not require a cap dump to fit on another team’s roster. Plus he’s from STL and would likely look to sign there in the off-season … STL gets to test drive Maroon and see if he’s a fit on their roster before signing him to a long and expensive contract.

    If Chia can’t get one of Kyrou, Thomas, Klim or Thompson then he should not return as GM of the Oilers next season.

    Kyrou? Are you guys crazy. The chance that Kyrou is available for a rental Maroon is none. Actually it is less than none. Actually if Chia can pry one of the other guys for a Maroon rental he deserves an award. If you are expecting one of those guys to come back you are going to be horribly dissappointed. Think more of a second round pick and a C level prospect for a return

  44. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Here is every Oiler forward who has played at least 500min as an Oiler since 14-15 and their Goals/100 Shot Attempts 5v5

    To give you a feel for what these numbers mean, there has been 251 forwards play at least 2500 minutes in the NHL 5v5 over the past 4 years cumulatively.

    The average is 5.5. The mean is also 5.5.

    Player iCSh%
    DAVID.DESHARNAIS 8.96 ****
    TYLER.PITLICK 8.77 ****
    PATRICK.MAROON 7.71
    BENOIT.POULIOT 7.43 ****
    CONNOR.MCDAVID 7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL 6.65
    JORDAN.EBERLE 6.56 ****
    MARK.ARCOBELLO 6.50 ****
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA 5.88
    DAVID.PERRON 5.81 ****
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS 5.70
    DEREK.ROY 5.30 ****
    MATT.FRASER 4.92 ****
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA 4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC 4.47
    TAYLOR.HALL 4.44 ****
    ZACK.KASSIAN 4.36
    ADAM.CRACKNELL 4.31 ****
    ROB.KLINKHAMMER 4.23 ****
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI 4.12
    LAURI.KORPIKOSKI 4.10 ****
    MATT.HENDRICKS 4.10 ****
    BOYD.GORDON 4.08 ****
    TEDDY.PURCELL 3.71 ****
    NAIL.YAKUPOV 3.68 ****
    RYAN.STROME 3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN 3.36
    MARK.LETESTU 3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI 3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV 2.73
    DREW.MILLER 2.60 ****
    ANTON.LANDER 1.88 ****

    I’ve starred all the players who are no longer Oilers.

    That leaves:
    Player iCSh%
    PATRICK.MAROON 7.71
    CONNOR.MCDAVID 7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL 6.65
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA 5.88
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS 5.70
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA 4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC 4.47
    ZACK.KASSIAN 4.36
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI 4.12
    RYAN.STROME 3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN 3.36
    MARK.LETESTU 3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI 3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV 2.73

    More than likely Maroon is gone.

    This leaves not too many forwards who score at above average rates.

    EDM has 3 good C’s who can pass quite well so the most pressing need is finishers.

    Here is where Leivo and Hoffman stack up (last 3 years)

    Leivo – 5.88 (347 min)
    Hoffman – 5.34 (2744 min)

    I think they both would fit nicely on the roster which needs to be culled.

    Hoffman is having an off year with a 4.46 so far. As LT mentions, he’s a volume shooter and I think we can expect him to return to previous form so a combination of average goal/shot attempt along with a high volume shooter is pretty valuable to this team.

    Leivo is more of a wild card, but the early returns are interesting enough to try him out as he’ll probably be pretty cheap to acquire.

    Improving 5v5 scoring won’t be a panacea to problems with the roster.

    Right now goaltending and special teams are the killers, but maybe Hoffman and Leivo can help there as well.

    That said, EDM was 8th last year with 2.48 5v5 GF/60 and this year they are 14th with 2.32.

    You always need to be aiming higher.

  45. VOR says:

    zatch:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Literally everything I’ve read about this draft says it’s not particularly good/below average. This top 10 is, taken as a whole, unremarkable, especially where Edmonton is likely to pick (outside top 3).

    This seems like a good year to move the pick.

    I think this draft is a pivot point in Oilers history, well this year’s and next year’s.

    I have a number of reasons for thinking this. But before listing them I want to point out that even if a draft is very weak overall an individual team may have great success. Given in a poor draft many other teams won’t do well a a team achieving great individual draft success will experience an outsized marginal gain.

    Why do I think it is a pivot point? First, the players drafted in the next two drafts will be the cheap supporting role players in 4 or 5 years when the Oilers next Cup window opens (cap expansion , end of bad contracts, etc.) If they get it right in the next two years the Oilers chances for winning multiple cups go up.

    Second, the Oilers have obvious holes and this draft does have some players who might fill the obvious holes. RD is a good example. This is the best collection of right handed defencemen in a single draft in years.

    Third, another lockout seems inevitable. That means players taken in the next two years get an extra year to develop. This means that a smart team might take players with bigger upsides but that need longer development times.

    Fourth, after Dahlen there is no consensus. This means the tyranny of the rankings where scouts can keep their jobs just by following consensus won’t be in play. Teams and their scouts, all teams and all scouts, will have to actually think and make decisions for a change. I believe based on the Chia drafts to date this probably works in the Oilers favor. With the picks they have had the Oilers have made some smart selections the last two years.

    Perhaps more importantly than all that you need to know the prognosticators are terrible at calling a draft in advance, they got 2003 and 2011 wrong as examples, calling them mediocre at best. This draft looks remarkably like 2011 or for that matter shades of 1984. Both of which were actually great drafts. It is like 1984 in that if you ignore the guy at the top nobody else looks like more than a good solid NHL pro. It looks like 2011 in that there are a remarkable number of guys who look like good journeyman NHLers and very little high end talent.

    But the thing is the Oilers don’t need it to be a great draft. They don’t need superstars, them they’ve got. They need good, solid, cheap, young pros to be the supporting role players of years of playoff success. This draft has a lot of guys who look perfect for that role as many of the reviews are pointing, damning with faint praise.

    But for the Oilers it is perfect if the talking heads are right. Need another RD or two or three to stock up your system, this draft has those in bunches, some with major upside. Need NHL depth forwards, this draft has quite a few of those, some with major upside. Need a game changing Dman, win the lottery and your set.

    I wouldn’t be trading a chance, albeit it small, at Rasmus Dahlen, and in fact based on all the things I have said above I would be trying to acquire as many draft picks as I could including using strategies liking trading down in the first round to get more 2nd round picks. Then I would use tools like NHLE and NHLP to draft high ceiling players, as many as I could get my hands on, regardless of size or foot speed, rumored character flaws or anything else. Because the math says you will do better than at least 20 other NHL teams, and if you get enough picks probably the best of any team.

    In a single year a good 2018 draft could minimally fix many of the weaknesses in the Oilers prospect pool.

  46. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    John Chambers:
    dustrock,

    I was thinking the other day how Lucic nearly signed in Montreal, and thought there was a plausible trade scenario between the clubs:

    Edmonton sends Lucic and Nugent Hopkins to the centre-starved Habs for Weber and Galchenyuk.

    Money in equals money out.

    We trade cap-problem Lucic who agrees to play in Montreal for cap-problem Weber who at least is a top-4 RD (now) who brings the pp skillset. Weber would undoubtedly be teamed up with a speedy LD like Nurse.

    Nuge for Galchenyuk is a loss for the Oilers, but they gain a speedy LW in exchange for the Center the Habs covet.

    MTL’s powerplay has improved immensely with Weber hurt and Petry taking PP1 duties.

    MTL PP w/ Weber 4.34 GF/60
    MTL PP w/ Petry 8.10 GF/60

    The best PP`s don`t have a bomb from the point and pretty much never did.

    The idea that they do is an artifact of MSM and fans seeing bomb goals and thinking it must be the best way.

    Its not.

    The best PP`s year after year are set up 1-3-1, ake most of their shots close to the net and have a good passer playing the point, not a bomb.

    Also,

    Weber is one of the few contracts I wouldn`t trade Lucic for.

    Lucic`s is bad and runs too long.

    Weber`s is poison and runs forever.

  47. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    I knew Lucic was coming here after Mcdavids injury and said Lucic is not the Lucic type player you are looking for.( you meaning Oilers and not you personally)

    2 horrible trades that will effect the team for the next two decades. As Oiler fans we can relate.

  48. Psyche says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    That Petry guy would be nice fit. Name sounds familiar. Hmmm.

    Weber’s contract is horrible and runs until the sun sets. Stay away!

  49. VOR says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’ve heard the exact opposite from every account.

    I am reading numerous sources which are all saying some version of it is Dahlen – near generational talent (large drop off) 2-4 probably plug and play NHLers (slightly smaller drop off) 5-10 wicked upside, lots of risk, (another significant drop off) 11-20 great prospects with uncertain futures, (marginal drop off) 21-45 good prospects with obvious flaws.

    Now the fact that each of these sources is listing slightly different collections of players in each of these rounds doesn’t inspire confidence.

    That said, this sort of analysis would make this a very, very deep draft. It would also somewhat lessen the value of any pick less than top 4 – see my comment about trading down. It is possible from the reports, blogs, and articles that I have read that you and Zatch could both be reading different sources and coming to different conclusions. I have seen it argued both ways. That is why I like to focus on what they say about the tiers/layers and what players they have in each tier/layer. That and the fact that as I keep saying the talking heads ability to judge a draft in advance isn’t great.

    The only recent draft where they seem to have nailed it was 2015 and I am reserving judgement on that one until I see more players in the NHL – though the ones already in the NHL are a stunningly good group.

  50. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Only saving grace of the Weber contract is that it’s almost paid for. Only 30 mil after this year and only 18 mil in 2 years. They may be able to pawn him off on the Coyotes then. He’s another example of why we are having compliance buyouts again in the next lockout. These Lucic Weber Erickson Seabrook et al contracts that are team killers.

  51. Jethro Tull says:

    Woodguy v2.0: MTL’s powerplay has improved immensely with Weber hurt and Petry taking PP1 duties.

    MTL PP w/ Weber 4.34 GF/60
    MTL PP w/ Petry 8.10 GF/60

    The best PP`s don`t have a bomb from the point and pretty much never did.

    The idea that they do is an artifact of MSM and fans seeing bomb goals and thinking it must be the best way.

    Its not.

    The best PP`syear after year are set up 1-3-1, ake most of their shots close to the net and have a good passer playing the point, not a bomb.

    Also,

    Weber is one of the few contracts I wouldn`t trade Lucic for.

    Lucic`s is bad and runs too long.

    Weber`s is poison and runs forever.

    I feel that has to be at least a threat of da bomb! If there is no threat then it is easy to defend. Sink in and block the high danger scoring areas. Like what teams do against us. And we have McDavid, Drai and Nuge, not to mention two hulking net fronters. But knowing that no-one is going to shoot north of the face off circle? It means no shot blocker, choke up the middle and breakout for short handed chances when they pick up the loose change from forced crossss ice passes.

  52. leadfarmer says:

    VOR,

    Seems like most drafts are felt to be below average and then after World Juniors and into the playoffs some players separate themselves from the others and then there is some clarity.

  53. Brantford Boy says:

    Wilde: Mike Hoffman, and especially Max Pacioretty are on absolutely undeniable cherry contracts.

    If they’re not value, nobody outside an ELC is value.

    The winger hole on LW is not going to be filled internally, especially not at the level of these players, and again, undeniably not in the timeframe that these players will fill it. Pacioretty and Hoffman are not even going to be here by the time you can reasonably expect our LW prospects to emerge in the NHL, and that’s betting that they emerge at all in the first place.

    How is our NHL top 6 LW going to be filled internally next season? This is a next season problem with a next season solution.

    I’m not saying the D doesn’t need work. It does. But it wasn’t the difference in the Anaheim series, and everything else is hypothetical. If you’re quoting Chia as a proof of the D making the difference, and then berating his judgement, well I don’t know why you’d quote his judgement to bolster your argument.

    You probably(apologies if this is misrepresenting your argument) are in favour of signing a FA winger, and trading for a defenseman, no?

    I’d argue the exact opposite. Because a championship calibre 1/2LW is going to cost less than a championship calibre 1/2RD. I can draw up some reaslistic costs, for the 1.2RD acquisition, and I don’t think you’re going to like them

    And then there’s the killer: this is the perfect opportunity. Two silly Canadian GM’s are selling two prime assets, that match our needs and timing perfectly. Strike now.

    As LT mentioned, Ottawa wants picks (probably 1&2) and prospects (and inexpensive NHL talent)… assuming we get the 2nd back with a Maroon trade… similarly according to HNIC Habs want 1&2 picks, a warm body player (Cammi, Caguilla etc. etc. we have many) and a significant prospect (take your pick). Both are quite the ask… too think we should have asked this much (or close to it) for Eberle is atounding… HNIC also mentioned Jets looking for top 6 forward, still think Maroon would be a great fit… “if” they can pry Kristian Vesalainen… judging by the other asks from these silly GM’s I dont feel this is too much… or Thomas from the Blues…

  54. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Weber`s is poison and runs forever.

    8 more years for a player whose type the league is reffing out of usefulness and running away from.

    The Oilers need a D core that can retrieve quickly and make a useful pass, a D that can pass to the right place quickly enough on the PP (a distributor), and some young forwards who are hungrier to score on the 80 zillion changes they get set up with.

    And a goalie tandem that can deliver at least league average tending 82+ games.

    Between Nurse Klef Sekera and perhaps Benning surely they can provide two guys that can pass on the PP, with some decent coaching. They have Nuge Drai and McD on the PP , how can you not make that work? It doesn’t have to be the best, just good.

    Pencil JP and Yama in on right wing. The need is a cheap shooter LW. They are around every summer for no term and a low salary. Just don’t pick guys that can’t skate anymore like Jokinen and Camma. This is where you cash the Connor chip to a UFA.

    The bottom 6 has to be able to play PK. Changes here help a lot. Kassian is suspect, Letestu can’t be relied upon. Slepy can’t seem to do anything, Caggiula is very spotty and can be very ineffectual while running around with hair on fire.

    The question is what has the org learned? Heart means diddly at this point, do they see that? The soft Oilers are gone. Mission accomplished.

    Face punching has lost value. How many do you need? Does Chiarelli see that they need better players at the hockeying? Do they realize that Boston is good not because of truculence but because of Chara, Bergeron and some other effective players, not Marchand’s psychosis?

    And as LT said his good guy granting of NMCs has crippled the team.

    Maybe Leivo is a good add. I’m sure he skates better than Maroon. If he can pot 40 pts with skill and TOI good enough. BUT does he play two ways and can he help anywhere else? Does he help outscore which is all that matters?

    40 pt players that don’t do anything else aren’t helpful enough IMO.

  55. leadfarmer says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Seems like there is always an over correction when these kind of numbers come out. Shot from the point option should be used to draw the other teams forward towards the defenseman creating a 4v3 down low. If you never use that option you are playing 4v4 down low or how the oil like to keep 2 guys on the blue line they’re pp is only a 3 v 4 down low and we wonder why it struggles. If you are in a 7 game series and Mcdavid is killing penalties I take my heavy shooting defenseman and wail pucks at him to teach Todd how stupid it is for franchise to be killing penalties

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Going into next year: Trade all ufa’s get what you can for draftAt the draft use most of your picks to stock cupboard (bare)This summer sign 3 proven veteran cheap free agents on one year deals whoare upgrades on our 12, 13, 14 forwards

    Unfortunately the Oilers are where they are and they have no trade pieces which they don’t badly need.
    Oilers need more players coming up from the farm. When is that going to start?

    1) I generally agree with your premise although signing 3 cheap veteran UFAs (that are upgrades) to 1 year contracts is not very realistic. I’m hoping for one for the top 6 winger hole (something like a Vanek) to bridge the gap until our prospects are ready.

    2) We have a hole at prospect graduation for next year but things start to look a bit brighter after that. There is the possibility that one of Bear or Jones (or even Mantha I guess) could be ready for some NHL time after one more AHL season. Next season Benson, Hebig and Yamamoto will be turning pro – the first two will be in the AHL and maybe all 3. After next year, its a good bet that either Yamamoto and/or Benson will be ready – who knows for what role though.

    Additionally, Lagesson and Vessel should be joining the Condors next year and the year after Maksimov, Safin and Samorukov will turn pro and we might see Berglund. Guys like McPhee and Rasanen are in college for a few more years but will be mature when they turn pro.

    No sure bets here (except probably Yamamoto and Benson to at least be NHL players), however, after this season, we will at least have some real prospects in the AHL fighting for playing time and NHL roster spots.

    Its a good bet that at least a couple of the overall group will “make it”.

  57. Wilde says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Good post.

    I think the goaltending needs a mulligan, but I’d spend real assets getting Grubaeur or someone similar.

    The powerplay, well, we both know the personnel is there, and if it’s not the players then…

    Penalty kill could use a systems change, but there’s a real shortage of capable players for it as well. Here’s who I’d take out of our lineup

    Oilers Forwards, min. 30 TOI 4v5

    Player / / FA/60 / / SCA/60 / / HDCA/60

    93- / / 77.9 / / 65.7 / / 35.1

    55- / / 77.3 / / 68.4 / / 29.4

    44- / / 70.7 / / 56.9 / / 23.3

    29- / / 70.7 / / 56.9 / / 21.8

    91- / / 70.1 / / 62.0 / / 31.0

    97- / / 69.1 / / 62.7 / / 25.8

    16- / / 60.1 / / 57.6 / / 24.5

    26- / / 58.7 / / 43.0 / / 27.4

    Letestu’s obviously gone, but we’ve got a Nuge problem here, and if it doesn’t fix itself we need someone to take his, and 97’s(imo) minutes in the discipline, as well as Caggiula.

    Iiro Pakarinen shows well here, as well as relative to the league, and so does Khaira to an extent.

    Acquisition wise, I’d look at Connor Brickley, FLA. He needs a new contract, and the Panthers will likely do some Tallon stuff and turn over a lot of players this summer. Currently making 750k, he has atrocious FA numbers, but among the league’s best in limiting chances and high danger chances.

    Scott Wilson and Tomas Nosek are other cheap options. Aiming higher, Charlie Coyle(beware the Minnesota inflation), Josh Anderson, Arturri Lehkonen are worth a look.

  58. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bling:
    From St. Louis’ perspective, if Kyrou is available, why opt for Maroon if Patches and Hoffman are in play?

    We’ll see if Chia can deliver, but I have my doubts.

    The ask for these two players will be more than Kyrou. I have no idea why people think we’re getting Hoffman for guys like Strome and the Drake.

  59. Scungilli Slushy says:

    JimmyV1965: The ask for these two players will be more than Kyrou. I have no idea why people think we’re getting Hoffman for guys like Strome and the Drake.

    Salary duress is the hope. A reverse Chiarelli.

  60. Wilde says:

    JimmyV1965: The ask for these two players will be more than Kyrou. I have no idea why people think we’re getting Hoffman for guys like Strome and the Drake.

    Strome+ could net a first in the deadline, and then you could sell Maroon for a 2nd and have the lion’s share of the ask for Hoffman/Patches

  61. leeinvan says:

    VOR,

    Totally agree, the team needs to stop looking for the quick fix, its something that countless GM’s before PC showed up have failed at. PC is just continuing the tradition.
    Stop drafting left d men I think when you have 10-12 of them there needs to be a few years where you take a break.
    If you have decided that you are not moving RNH then draft right sided d men and left sided wingers.
    Once you get passed the top 5 or 6 players, drafting best player when you cant squeeze a sheet of paper between them and the next players is stupid.
    Always have a plan and draft by need.
    I love the way GM’s try and convince everyone how hard their job is.
    So much of it is just plain old common sense.

  62. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: Mike Hoffman, and especially Max Pacioretty are on absolutely undeniable cherry contracts.

    If they’re not value, nobody outside an ELC is value.

    The winger hole on LW is not going to be filled internally, especially not at the level of these players, and again, undeniably not in the timeframe that these players will fill it. Pacioretty and Hoffman are not even going to be here by the time you can reasonably expect our LW prospects to emerge in the NHL, and that’s betting that they emerge at all in the first place.

    How is our NHL top 6 LW going to be filled internally next season? This is a next season problem with a next season solution.

    I’m not saying the D doesn’t need work. It does. But it wasn’t the difference in the Anaheim series, and everything else is hypothetical. If you’re quoting Chia as a proof of the D making the difference, and then berating his judgement, well I don’t know why you’d quote his judgement to bolster your argument.

    You probably(apologies if this is misrepresenting your argument) are in favour of signing a FA winger, and trading for a defenseman, no?

    I’d argue the exact opposite. Because a championship calibre 1/2LW is going to cost less than a championship calibre 1/2RD. I can draw up some reaslistic costs, for the 1.2RD acquisition, and I don’t think you’re going to like them

    And then there’s the killer: this is the perfect opportunity. Two silly Canadian GM’s are selling two prime assets, that match our needs and timing perfectly. Strike now.

    When I speak of a value contract for the top 6, I’m speaking of a player on their ELC or 2nd contract that outperform a small cap hit (under $1M – $2.5M) – a player like Yamamoto or Benson on their ELC can outperform their nominal cap hits. It isn’t likely for next year (although possible with Kailer), but is somewhat probable the year after.

    Sure Hoffman and Max P. have nice contracts, I would agree they provide value, but they are still material cap hits and I think we can fill those roles, in time, with cheaper cap hits. Maybe Yamamoto won’t be able to perform to Hoffman’s level in 2019/2020, however, he is likely to perform at a cap hit of $4M less than Hoffman and will be able to provide significant value allowing that $4M to be used elsewhere.

    I’m not concerned about filling the top 6 winger spot internally next season. I’ve said consistently that there is a hole there for next year and I look for management to try and find a cheap and established stop gap for that position while our prospects develop. Similar to Vancouver finding Vanek last year.

    I am a patient man when it comes to the Oilers. With our cap crunch going forward, I just don’t like committing material cap to veteran (and recently declining) wingers when, if we are patient, we are likely to fill those spots (in time) with real value contracts – decently high end wingers on ELCs.

    I’m sure I’m in the minority here but I’m even willing to have a hole in that spot next season for the betterment of the future. I’d rather had another hole there next year than commit to an older and potentially decline player.

    I’m quoting Chia for truth because he was right – our defence wasn’t good enough. Without the addition of an actual 1/2RD we cannot compete with the likes of Nashville and ANA. We need to be able to transition the puck and having a LHD playing on the right side with top 2 pairing minutes is a problem. I find it odd and frustrating that Chia acknowledged the issue but then made a move (Russell signing) that precluded him from solving the problem – it was a panic move.

    We lost Sekera during the ANA series. If we don’t, we likely win it. Another real 2nd pairing d-man (a rightie) would make a huge difference. I don’t see it coming internally whereas I do see top 6 wingers coming internally (in time)

    At the end of the day, the addition of the 1/2RD, barring a major move, is unlikely and I will have to accept it. If we could get out from under the Russell contract, we could use that cap to help pay for the right D but, alas, I don’t see it happening.

    I would be comfortable with a left D of Nurse, Klef, Sekera, Davidson and a right D of Larsson, acquisition target, Benning, Gryba. That would work and would be affordable if we could get out from under the Russell contract but that is unlikely.

  63. Silver Streak says:

    VOR: I think this draft is a pivot point in Oilers history, well this year’s and next year’s.

    I have a number of reasons for thinking this. But before listing them I want to point out that even if a draft is very weak overall an individual team may have great success. Given in a poor draft many other teams won’t do well a a team achieving great individual draft success will experience an outsized marginal gain.

    Why do I think it is a pivot point? First, the players drafted in the next two drafts will be the cheap supporting role players in 4 or 5 years when the Oilers next Cup window opens (cap expansion , end of bad contracts, etc.) If they get it right in the next two years the Oilers chances for winning multiple cups go up.

    Second, the Oilers have obvious holes and this draft does have some players who might fill the obvious holes. RD is a good example. This is the best collection of right handed defencemen in a single draft in years.

    Third, another lockout seems inevitable. That means players taken in the next two years get an extra year to develop. This means that a smart team might take players with bigger upsides but that need longer development times.

    Fourth, after Dahlen there is no consensus. This means the tyranny of the rankings where scouts can keep their jobs just by following consensus won’t be in play. Teams and their scouts, all teams and all scouts, will have to actually think and make decisions for a change. I believe based on the Chia drafts to date this probably works in the Oilers favor. With the picks they have had the Oilers have made some smart selections the last two years.

    Perhaps more importantly than all that you need to know the prognosticators are terrible at calling a draft in advance, they got 2003 and 2011 wrong as examples, calling them mediocre at best. This draft looks remarkably like 2011 or for that matter shades of 1984. Both of which were actually great drafts. It is like 1984 in that if you ignore the guy at the top nobody else looks like more than a good solid NHL pro. It looks like 2011 in that there are a remarkable number of guys who look like good journeyman NHLers and very little high end talent.

    But the thing is the Oilers don’t need it to be a great draft. They don’t need superstars, them they’ve got. They need good, solid, cheap, young pros to be the supporting role players of years of playoff success. This draft has a lot of guys who look perfect for that role as many of the reviews are pointing, damning with faint praise.

    But for the Oilers it is perfect if the talking heads are right. Need another RD or two or three to stock up your system, this draft has those in bunches, some with major upside. Need NHL depth forwards, this draft has quite a few of those, some with major upside. Need a game changing Dman, win the lottery and your set.

    I wouldn’t be trading a chance, albeit it small, at Rasmus Dahlen, and in fact based on all the things I have said above I would be trying to acquire as many draft picks as I could including using strategies liking trading down in the first round to get more 2nd round picks. Then I would use tools like NHLE and NHLP to draft high ceiling players, as many as I could get my hands on, regardless of size or foot speed, rumored character flaws or anything else. Because the math says you will do better than at least 20 other NHL teams, and if you get enough picks probably the best of any team.

    In a single year a good 2018 draft could minimally fix many of the weaknesses in the Oilers prospect pool.

    Thank You VOR…..Hear-Ye, Hear-Ye, to everyone who needs to brush up on how a winning hockey team is built….this is the indisputable method by which winners are constructed. Man I hope our scouts both pro and amateur are active…its on you Keith Gretzky !

  64. HT Joe says:

    Woodguy v2.0: MTL’s powerplay has improved immensely with Weber hurt and Petry taking PP1 duties.
    MTL PP w/ Weber 4.34 GF/60
    MTL PP w/ Petry 8.10 GF/60

    Man, the Petry guy looks really good… how do we get a player like that?? 😛

  65. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Although I would like to have either Hoffman or Max P. in our top 6, I still don’t think a trade makes sense from the Oilers points of view.

    The acquisition cost will be material and, frankly, as I’ve stated, I think the cap space (and possible acquisition assets) are better suited to fill the 1/2RD hole.I don’t see the ability to plug both holes this off-season, without moving out material cap.Its not a good idea to trade Nuge or Klef to make room for a winger and I don’t see us getting out from under Lucic or Russell to clear cap this spring.

    I think that we can fill the top 6 winger spots internally (in time) and, also, we require those spots to be filled by cheap contracts – ELC or 2nd contracts that are value contracts – that is our current cap structure.

    We have a gap until any prospects are ready to continue (subject to our 1st round pick and/or Yamamoto) and here is hoping that management can find a short term stop gap (similar to Vanek this past year).

    I would like management to focus on a 1/2RD as opposed to a top 6 scorer.

    Until the team can score more goals the RD situation is not the problem. They must be able to score more than one goal a game consistently so top six scorers are priority no. one.

  66. Oilman99 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Here is every Oiler forward who has played at least 500min as an Oiler since 14-15 and their Goals/100 Shot Attempts 5v5

    To give you a feel for what these numbers mean, there has been 251 forwards play at least 2500 minutes in the NHL 5v5 over the past 4 years cumulatively.

    The average is 5.5.The mean is also 5.5.

    PlayeriCSh%
    DAVID.DESHARNAIS8.96 ****
    TYLER.PITLICK8.77 ****
    PATRICK.MAROON7.71
    BENOIT.POULIOT7.43 ****
    CONNOR.MCDAVID7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL6.65
    JORDAN.EBERLE6.56 ****
    MARK.ARCOBELLO6.50 ****
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA5.88
    DAVID.PERRON5.81 ****
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS5.70
    DEREK.ROY5.30 ****
    MATT.FRASER4.92 ****
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC4.47
    TAYLOR.HALL4.44 ****
    ZACK.KASSIAN4.36
    ADAM.CRACKNELL4.31 ****
    ROB.KLINKHAMMER4.23 ****
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI4.12
    LAURI.KORPIKOSKI4.10 ****
    MATT.HENDRICKS4.10 ****
    BOYD.GORDON4.08 ****
    TEDDY.PURCELL3.71 ****
    NAIL.YAKUPOV3.68 ****
    RYAN.STROME3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN3.36
    MARK.LETESTU3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV2.73
    DREW.MILLER2.60 ****
    ANTON.LANDER1.88 ****

    I’ve starred all the players who are no longer Oilers.

    That leaves:
    PlayeriCSh%
    PATRICK.MAROON7.71
    CONNOR.MCDAVID7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL6.65
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA5.88
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS5.70
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC4.47
    ZACK.KASSIAN4.36
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI4.12
    RYAN.STROME3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN3.36
    MARK.LETESTU3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV2.73

    More than likely Maroon is gone.

    This leaves not too many forwards who score at above average rates.

    EDM has 3 good C’s who can pass quite well so the most pressing need is finishers.

    Here is where Leivo and Hoffman stack up (last 3 years)

    Leivo – 5.88 (347 min)
    Hoffman – 5.34 (2744 min)

    I think they both would fit nicely on the roster which needs to be culled.

    Hoffman is having an off year with a 4.46 so far.As LT mentions, he’s a volume shooter and I think we can expect him to return to previous form so a combination of average goal/shot attempt along with a high volume shooter is pretty valuable to this team.

    Leivo is more of a wild card, but the early returns are interesting enough to try him out as he’ll probably be pretty cheap to acquire.

    Improving 5v5 scoring won’t be a panacea to problems with the roster.

    Right now goaltending and special teams are the killers, but maybe Hoffman and Leivo can help there as well.

    That said, EDM was 8th last year with 2.48 5v5 GF/60and this year they are 14th with 2.32.

    You always need to be aiming higher.

    Hoffman creats cap hell with no room to solve the RD problem.

  67. HT Joe says:

    D:
    If Chia gets fired this year or next, does that effectively end his career as a GM in the NHL?

    I believe yes.

    Between Lowe, Tambo, and MacT, general managers who move on from the Oilers do not get to play GM again for other teams. Sather was the exception, and Sather was exceptional.

    *EDIT TO EXPAND* What team would hire an ex-GM whose opening line in the interview would be “I got to draft Connor McDavid, and then proceeded to surround him with a team that couldn’t make the playoffs in year 3”.

  68. JimmyV1965 says:

    leadfarmer: Kyrou?Are you guys crazy.The chance that Kyrou is available for a rental Maroon is none.Actually it is less than none.Actually if Chia can pry one of the other guys for a Maroon rental he deserves an award.If you are expecting one of those guys to come back you are going to be horribly dissappointed.Think more of a second round pick and a C level prospect for a return

    So if you don’t think Maroon can be traded for Kyrou or one of their other big prospects, do you think the Blues are trading one of these guys straight up for Hoffman or Patches? Because I don’t think that’s nearly enough for an established. NHL scorer. Do the Blues trade two of these prospects for Hoffman or Patches? That’s more likely the trade cost

    Which UFA rental has more value than Maroon? You can say Kane, but with his baggage, I don’t think that is necessarily true. NHL GMs love guys like Maroon for the playoffs.

    And why are we trading Maroon for a pick and garbage? Why can’t we be trading Maroon plus a pick or prospect for one of the Blues big prospects.

    And remember, the Blues do not have an AHL team right now. They are sharing the Vegas team, but it is definitely the Vegas team.

  69. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar: On the first point, I will disagree as I think its more important to fill the 1/2RD hole than the top 6W hole.

    Yes, we have great depth on the left defence side with Nurse, Klef, Sekera, Russell and Davidson, however, we simply do not have that on the right side as we have Larsson, Benning, Gryba.

    Larsson is best suited as a 2RD but has been forced to play 1RD and Benning, as of now, is no more than a 3RD. He’s had an uneven season (at best) playing up the lineup this year.

    There is a huge hole on 1/2RD and I think it must be plugged with a legit established top 4 RHD.

    Moving Russell or Sekera to their off-side to fill that hole is less than optimal in my opinion. We have a huge issue transitioning the puck with speed and/or efficiency and a leftie playing big minutes on the right side will not help that problem.

    We know Russell is a poor transitioner of the puck on the right side and Sekera has struggled there in the past (and had some success at the World Cup paired with Chara) but will ultimately be a weaker transitioner simply as a physical function of being on his back-hand to the middle.

    Further, I see no sure bets in the organization in the top 4 RHD – Bear is a decent bet to play in the NHL but he may never be anything more than a 3RD plus PP guy and he’s likely at least a year or two away.Mantha is likely a distant bell but also a year or so away.

    Yes, we have a hole at forward, clearly, but I see more “sure bets” for the top 6 winger position in our system and, frankly, they are easier to acquire via trade and signing than a top 4 RHD. Yamamoto is a good bet for the top 6 within a year or so.Benson a decent bet. Our 1st round pick this year could be an elite forward prospect.Maksimov and Safin are perculating, etc.

    At the end of the day, as you agreed, we need value contracts in the top 6 winger position and we have prospects that may be able to provide that value in the next few years. Hoffman would be very nice but he’s not a value contact and has potentially already started his decline – lets not forget, goals are scored by younger players – a player’s goal scoring numbers generally decline as they hit the late 20s.

    Is Larsson a first or second pairing RHD?

    The top 3 NHL dman (your mileage may vary) are Doughty (1RHD), Subban (1RHD), Hedman (1LHD), Our top dman is Nurse (1LHD).

    Their four most common partners are….Muzzin, Emelin, Colburn and Larsson.

    While Nurse is not in anyone’s Norris trophy list …imo Larsson is the best of other top pairing dman on this list, making him a reasonable option on our top pairing, and since he is a RHD….

  70. HT Joe says:

    OriginalPouzar: I said it at the time (as did many others) – the Russell contract essentially locks our defence in for a while – it precludes the ability to improve via external acquisition (unless we are trading away a core piece such as Nurse or Klefbom) to do it.

    If Russell is essentially unmovable and Sekera never regains form, the Oilers can upgrade the blueline only by trading away one of Nurse, Klefbom, and Larsson.

    So, could this work?

    Could the Oilers trade Larsson++ for a better RD?
    Could the Oilers trade either Nurse or Klefbom +picks +prospects +cheap player for a better LD or a better RD?

    What sort of RD would Larsson + 2018 1st + 2019 2nd + prospect get the Oilers?

  71. Bobcaygeon says:

    ‘ Peter Chiarelli has left himself no daylight at all. In the more than 12 years I’ve been uncovering things to discuss about this team, no general manager has been as thorough in boxing himself in as Mr. Chiarelli. This is my opinion”

    I think this is the general consensus……The real bitch of this is he never learned from the last team he did this with and I think vitriol around him is earned..

    This is why I will not be surprised to see names like Yamamoto or Jesse P involved in trades.

  72. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    We leave the LW depth as Lucic, Khaira, and then nobody, and we miss the playoffs again. Are you patient enough for that?

    Who are we signing for Vanek’s contract that’s going to work? The LW UFA of players who could play top 6 class is this:

    Nash, Kane, Neal,Van Riemsdyk, Perron, Bailey, Kunitz, Versteeg.

    Who among those is it? All of those guys are going to cost comparable cap hits to Patches or Hoffman, on longer contracts. Feel free to actually look at the free agent class and find this ‘Vanek’ player you’re using over and over in your rhetoric.

    It’s not ‘committing’ to these players, their cap hit will be gone in one year or two. But for free agents, Vanek is the outlier. Patrick Marleau needed a 3 year deal.

    Finally, the Oilers win that series if either of the GI calls were proper. Nurse has emerged, so we wouldn’t have the problem of a LD going down.

    And I’ll continue to ask who your RD target is as well. The problem with this whole argument is that you’re not naming players, just arguing conceptually when the amount of players who qualify as a 1/2RD is so small, a more fruitful discussion can be had if you actually name targets.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Until the team can score more goals the RD situation is not the problem. They must be able to score more than one goal a game consistently so top six scorers are priority no. one.

    I believe the Oilers are around middle of the pack in even strength goals scored (bottom of the middle mind you) but dead last in power play goals (due to lack of drawing penalties coupled with a PP that has been very bad for a while now). Yes, scoring goals is a problem but its one of a few problems.

    I would posit that an actual right handed top 4 d-man would help immensely with puck retrieval and transition and would materially help the offence.

    Additionally, as I’ve stated my position consistently, I see a hole that needs to be filled at both spots, I don’t see the ability to fill them both this spring/summer and I see the ability to potentially fill the forward hole internally in time – hence my wish to fill the RHD spot externally.

    I’m not building towards a SC championship next year, that’s not realistic, I’m building with the medium and long term cap implications in mind which, to me, do not include committing $5M to another winger approaching 30 plus disposing of material assets to acquire that contract.

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Hoffman creats cap hell with no room to solve the RD problem.

    Agreed!

  75. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t think I agree that it worked for us last year, at least not well enough, in particular in the playoffs.

    Our general manager said, expressly, at the end of the playoffs that our defensive group was not good enough to compete with the likes of ANA and NSH and needed to improve – he then went and re-signed Russell, essentially locking us in to the same group.So silly.

    Everything worked out perfectly for the group last year but this year we have seen with certainty what happens with even a little bit of an issue – Sekera is out and Klef is playing injured and the defence, as a group, is materially worse than last year, cannot defend, cannot PK and cannot transition the puck.

    I guess, if all our d-man play 75 plus games and are pretty much healthy when they play, its OK to compete, however, that simply isn’t going to happen and I think one more legit 1/2 RHD is important.

    I think fixing the winger hole is (1) easier and (2) potentially filled internally and (3) must be done with value contracts, not the acquisition of soon to be declining veterans.

    </blockquotYoure counting too heavily on unproven rookies to fill the winger hole, there is nothing in Bakersfield to solve the problem, and as shown by the goal scoring ability of the first and second year players counted on this year that is a big gamble. They need to bring in wingers showing a bigger upside.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63: Is Larsson a first or second pairing RHD?

    The top 3 NHL dman (your mileage may vary) are Doughty (1RHD), Subban (1RHD), Hedman (1LHD), Our top dman is Nurse (1LHD).

    Their four most common partners are….Muzzin, Emelin, Colburn and Larsson.

    While Nurse is not in anyone’s Norris trophy list …imo Larsson is the best of other top pairing dman on this list, making him a reasonable option on our top pairing, and since he is a RHD….

    On a championship team? He’s likely a 2nd pairing guy – his troubles transitioning the puck limit him.

    Last year we essentially played two first pairings and he did very well with an Oscar Klefbom at the top of his game. He’s been OK this year but not quite as good as last year (or consistent) – a function of his partner not being as solid or consistent and being banged up.

    Of course, I’d prefer to acquire a legit 1RD but I’d be comfortable with another solid 2RD which at least gives us two top 4 righties, we currently have one.

  77. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Here is every Oiler forward who has played at least 500min as an Oiler since 14-15 and their Goals/100 Shot Attempts 5v5

    To give you a feel for what these numbers mean, there has been 251 forwards play at least 2500 minutes in the NHL 5v5 over the past 4 years cumulatively.

    The average is 5.5.The mean is also 5.5.

    PlayeriCSh%
    DAVID.DESHARNAIS8.96 ****
    TYLER.PITLICK8.77 ****
    PATRICK.MAROON7.71
    BENOIT.POULIOT7.43 ****
    CONNOR.MCDAVID7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL6.65
    JORDAN.EBERLE6.56 ****
    MARK.ARCOBELLO6.50 ****
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA5.88
    DAVID.PERRON5.81 ****
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS5.70
    DEREK.ROY5.30 ****
    MATT.FRASER4.92 ****
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC4.47
    TAYLOR.HALL4.44 ****
    ZACK.KASSIAN4.36
    ADAM.CRACKNELL4.31 ****
    ROB.KLINKHAMMER4.23 ****
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI4.12
    LAURI.KORPIKOSKI4.10 ****
    MATT.HENDRICKS4.10 ****
    BOYD.GORDON4.08 ****
    TEDDY.PURCELL3.71 ****
    NAIL.YAKUPOV3.68 ****
    RYAN.STROME3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN3.36
    MARK.LETESTU3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV2.73
    DREW.MILLER2.60 ****
    ANTON.LANDER1.88 ****

    I’ve starred all the players who are no longer Oilers.

    That leaves:
    PlayeriCSh%
    PATRICK.MAROON7.71
    CONNOR.MCDAVID7.38
    LEON.DRAISAITL6.65
    JUJHAR.KHAIRA5.88
    RYAN.NUGENT-HOPKINS5.70
    DRAKE.CAGGIULA4.65
    MILAN.LUCIC4.47
    ZACK.KASSIAN4.36
    JESSE.PULJUJARVI4.12
    RYAN.STROME3.64
    IIRO.PAKARINEN3.36
    MARK.LETESTU3.36
    MIKE.CAMMALLERI3.06
    ANTON.SLEPYSHEV2.73

    More than likely Maroon is gone.

    This leaves not too many forwards who score at above average rates.

    EDM has 3 good C’s who can pass quite well so the most pressing need is finishers.

    Here is where Leivo and Hoffman stack up (last 3 years)

    Leivo – 5.88 (347 min)
    Hoffman – 5.34 (2744 min)

    I think they both would fit nicely on the roster which needs to be culled.

    Hoffman is having an off year with a 4.46 so far.As LT mentions, he’s a volume shooter and I think we can expect him to return to previous form so a combination of average goal/shot attempt along with a high volume shooter is pretty valuable to this team.

    Leivo is more of a wild card, but the early returns are interesting enough to try him out as he’ll probably be pretty cheap to acquire.

    Improving 5v5 scoring won’t be a panacea to problems with the roster.

    Right now goaltending and special teams are the killers, but maybe Hoffman and Leivo can help there as well.

    That said, EDM was 8th last year with 2.48 5v5 GF/60and this year they are 14th with 2.32.

    You always need to be aiming higher.

    Why is Hall low in this metric?

  78. JimmyV1965 says:

    Wilde: Strome+ could net a first in the deadline, and then you could sell Maroon for a 2nd and have the lion’s share of the ask for Hoffman/Patches

    II’m starting to think maybe we trade Strome at the deadline. There are very few Cs available at the deadline so it may drive up his value. Having said that, I’m warming up to the idea of Strome as our 3C. I’ll be stunned if he nets a first rounder though.

  79. Bobcaygeon says:

    Wilde:
    OriginalPouzar,

    We leave the LW depth as Lucic, Khaira, and then nobody, and we miss the playoffs again. Are you patient enough for that?

    The question should be and should be considered going forward is if McDavid patient enough for that?

  80. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Jethro Tull: I feel that has to be at least a threat of da bomb! If there is no threat then it is easy to defend. Sink in and block the high danger scoring areas. Like what teams do against us. And we have McDavid, Drai and Nuge, not to mention two hulking net fronters. But knowing that no-one is going to shoot north of the face off circle? It means no shot blocker, choke up the middle and breakout for short handed chances when they pick up the loose change from forced crossss ice passes.

    That’s not what why clogging the slot happens to the EDM PP.

    Klefbom takes more shots than anyone else on the PP.

    PK’s give up the point shot because it rarely scores, even if its Weber shooting.

    To unclog the slot usually teams do two things:

    1) More player movement to open shooting lanes
    2) Puck carrier shoots more the draw a defender to him to open up lanes.

    EDM’s PP is quite stagnant this year and McDavid doesn’t shoot enough.

    I honestly think 97 should often take the puck on the boards and start circling the ozone at a high rate of speed like he is wont to do from time to time.

    That would drive a lot of PK set ups bonkers.

  81. Wilde says:

    JimmyV1965: II’m starting to think maybe we trade Strome at the deadline. There are very few Cs available at the deadline so it may drive up his value. Having said that, I’m warming up to the idea of Strome as our 3C. I’ll be stunned if he nets a first rounder though.

    Hanzal got a first and a 2nd. He has size/dirtiness bonus, but if we had to make that up, I think we can get a first.

  82. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yes, I am comfortable with the continuation of the hole at top 6 winger next year and missing the playoffs
    – in particular if if an established RHD is acquired.

    As I’ve said, I am willing to wait for our current prospects to develop and provide true value in the top 6 – top 6 level production on their ELCs – our cap structure requires that going forward. I don’t see the ability to commit $5M plus to a veteran established winger while “fixing” the rest of the team.

    Yes, I acknowledge the risk of missing the playoffs next year and I’m willing to miss the playoffs next year in order to not acquire another medium to big money contract that doesn’t make sense.

    I know I’m in the minority but I’m looking past next season.

  83. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I believe the Oilers are around middle of the pack in even strength goals scored (bottom of the middle mind you) but dead last in power play goals (due to lack of drawing penalties coupled with a PP that has been very bad for a while now).Yes, scoring goals is a problem but its one of a few problems.

    I would posit that an actual right handed top 4 d-man would help immensely with puck retrieval and transition and would materially help the offence.

    Additionally, as I’ve stated my position consistently, I see a hole that needs to be filled at both spots, I don’t see the ability to fill them both this spring/summer and I see the ability to potentially fill the forward hole internally in time – hence my wish to fill the RHD spot externally.

    I’m not building towards a SC championship next year, that’s not realistic, I’m building with the medium and long term cap implications in mind which, to me, do not include committing $5M to another winger approaching 30 plus disposing of material assets to acquire that contract.

    Agreed, we need to have an upper management that can find young forwards with an up side like LVK did in the draft,and still have room to fill that D-man position. There is great fear that being hung with Lucic contract on top of the big two contracts is going to continually put the team in cap hell like Chicago.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    McDavid is signed for 8 years and will be making $12.5M/year for those 8 years.

    I have zero concern about “his patience”.

  85. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack: Why is Hall low in this metric?

    2 reasons

    1) He’s more a of passer/playmaker and possession driver than goal scorer. One year he was rated the best passer by Volman’s metrics.

    2) The only year he was an Oiler in the years I looked was the year he spent a lot of time post trade deadline playing the toughs with guys like Pakarienen and Kassian, so there were less goals than usual.

    Here’s Hall’s results via this metric over the past 5 years:

    Player Season iCSh%
    TAYLOR.HALL 2012-2013 6.12
    TAYLOR.HALL 2013-2014 5.63
    TAYLOR.HALL 2014-2015 3.83
    TAYLOR.HALL 2015-2016 4.80
    TAYLOR.HALL 2016-2017 2.82
    TAYLOR.HALL 2017-2018 6.03

  86. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McDavid is signed for 8 years and will be making $12.5M/year for those 8 years.

    I have zero concern about “his patience”.

    Players don’t ask for trades?

  87. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar: On a championship team?He’s likely a 2nd pairing guy – his troubles transitioning the puck limit him.

    Last year we essentially played two first pairings and he did very well with an Oscar Klefbom at the top of his game.He’s been OK this year but not quite as good as last year (or consistent) – a function of his partner not being as solid or consistent and being banged up.

    Of course, I’d prefer to acquire a legit 1RD but I’d be comfortable with another solid 2RD which at least gives us two top 4 righties, we currently have one.

    +1

  88. leadfarmer says:

    JimmyV1965: So if you don’t think Maroon can be traded for Kyrou or one of their other big prospects, do you think the Blues are trading one of these guys straight up for Hoffman or Patches? Because I don’t think that’s nearly enough for an established. NHL scorer. Do the Blues trade two of these prospects for Hoffman or Patches? That’s more likely the trade cost

    Which UFA rental has more value than Maroon? You can say Kane, but with his baggage, I don’t think that is necessarily true. NHL GMs love guys like Maroon for the playoffs.

    And why are we trading Maroon for a pick and garbage? Why can’t we be trading Maroon plus a pick or prospect for one of the Blues big prospects.

    And remember, the Blues do not have an AHL team right now.They are sharing the Vegas team, but it is definitely the Vegas team.

    I don’t think Kyrou is available. I think the other 3 would be available for a Hoffman or Patches trade with picks or lesser prospects to round out the difference. Maroon has higher value to the Oil because of his chemistry with Mcdavid and as long as Mcdavid is not getting traded with him his value is lower to other teams. If I’m a GM whether trading for him or negotiating a contract I’m using 3rd line wingers for comparisons because that’s really what Maroon is. And there is no way I’m giving up very good prospects for a Maroon rental. And adding picks does not move the needle much unless it’s the Oils first rounder.
    I would be very shocked if the return for Maroon is higher than a second rounder and C level prospect (think somewhere in the 7-12th player in prospect pool)

  89. GCW_69 says:

    I think you look at moving the 2018 pick, but under the condition it is top 5 or top 10 protected.

    That should still get the Oilers a decent player and you have to beleive they will be better next year, right? Right?

  90. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Yes, I am comfortable with the continuation of the hole at top 6 winger next year and missing the playoffs
    – in particular if if an established RHD is acquired.

    As I’ve said, I am willing to wait for our current prospects to develop and provide true value in the top 6 – top 6 level production on their ELCs – our cap structure requires that going forward.I don’t see the ability to commit $5M plus to a veteran established winger while “fixing” the rest of the team.

    Yes, I acknowledge the risk of missing the playoffs next year and I’m willing to miss the playoffs next year in order to not acquire another medium to big money contract that doesn’t make sense.

    I know I’m in the minority but I’m looking past next season.

    Who. Who is. The 1/2RD.

    Name someone. Name your targets.\

    You can argue the concept but it has no ties to reality without an actual target. How is it not going to cost the ‘value contracts’ to acquire this RHD? If you think the combination of Maksimov, Safin, Yamamoto, Benson, and this years draft haul has a good chance of shoring up the wing, how are you also not giving them up for this RHD?

    And again, how is our long term cap structure affected by 5m for two years? If we miss the playoffs again, realise that we come closer to losing Nuge’s contract, and thus will have a centre hole shortly after having the winger hole solved internally. You’re trading the next two years, for one year in 2020-21 before we lose Nuge.

  91. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s not what happens to the EDM PP.

    Klefbom takes more shots than anyone else on the PP.

    PK’s give up the point shot because it rarely scores, even if its Weber shooting.

    So then, can we agree its coaching?

  92. godot10 says:

    D:
    If Chia gets fired this year or next, does that effectively end his career as a GM in the NHL?

    The Islanders might consider him as a replacement for Snow, considering what a great job Petey has done for the Islanders already.

  93. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I believe the Oilers are around middle of the pack in even strength goals scored (bottom of the middle mind you) but dead last in power play goals (due to lack of drawing penalties coupled with a PP that has been very bad for a while now).Yes, scoring goals is a problem but its one of a few problems.

    I would posit that an actual right handed top 4 d-man would help immensely with puck retrieval and transition and would materially help the offence.

    Additionally, as I’ve stated my position consistently, I see a hole that needs to be filled at both spots, I don’t see the ability to fill them both this spring/summer and I see the ability to potentially fill the forward hole internally in time – hence my wish to fill the RHD spot externally.

    I’m not building towards a SC championship next year, that’s not realistic, I’m building with the medium and long term cap implications in mind which, to me, do not include committing $5M to another winger approaching 30 plus disposing of material assets to acquire that contract.

    I gotta agree with you here OP. When Tmac put out Strome and the Drake in OT the other night it really drove home the lack of talent we have in the forward ranks. It’s frickin awful. But McDavid and Drai and even RNH can make up for a lot of that.

    Despite this lack of talent we are a decent 5×5 scoring team. When the PP improves, and I’m convinced it will, our goal scoring should get a lot better.

    On defence, I don’t think we have a single player as good as RNH at forward. Nurse might become one of those. I watch game after game and the biggest flaw I see on this team is our inability to transition the puck out of the dzone. If we can get just even one top 4 RHD it will impact our play big time.

    This team has too many holes to fix in one off season. I think we have to be resigned to the fact that it will take two or three years to fix. And I’m okay with that, as long as Chia stops bleeding talent.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Players don’t ask for trades?

    I have zero concerns about him asking for a trade.

    Even if he did ask for a trade, that doesn’t mean management has to trade him.

    Further, the haul they would get for McDavid would probably make them a better team going forward – look what Lindros did for the Quebec/Colorado franchise.

    Anyways, this is nothing but pure baseless speculation and not even worth discussing.

  95. Bobcaygeon says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McDavid is signed for 8 years and will be making $12.5M/year for those 8 years.

    I have zero concern about “his patience”.

    Three out of the four years McDavid has been on one of the worst teams in the NHL, just before the Oilers draf him the Oilers made significant changes I’m guessing out of concerns on how the team was being run by McDavids camp….

    Everything we see and everything we’re thinking I guarantee the players or agents have had the same discussions..

    The Oilers have real holes and may take years to get out of, would you want to spend the next three years as the worst team with the best player wasting his talents while the Oilers get there shit together…..

    It a real concern….

  96. jtblack says:

    Wilde: Who. Who is. The 1/2RD.

    Name someone. Name your targets.\

    You can argue the concept but it has no ties to reality without an actual target. How is it not going to cost the ‘value contracts’ to acquire this RHD? If you think the combination of Maksimov, Safin, Yamamoto, Benson, and this years draft haul has a good chance of shoring up the wing, how are you also not giving them up for this RHD?

    And again, how is our long term cap structure affected by 5m for two years? If we miss the playoffs again, realise that we come closer to losing Nuge’s contract, and thus will have a centre hole shortly after having the winger hole solved internally. You’re trading the next two years, for one year in 2020-21 before we lose Nuge.

    Tyson Barrie For one

  97. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: On a championship team?He’s likely a 2nd pairing guy – his troubles transitioning the puck limit him.

    Last year we essentially played two first pairings and he did very well with an Oscar Klefbom at the top of his game.He’s been OK this year but not quite as good as last year (or consistent) – a function of his partner not being as solid or consistent and being banged up.

    Of course, I’d prefer to acquire a legit 1RD but I’d be comfortable with another solid 2RD which at least gives us two top 4 righties, we currently have one.

    Dmen on Championship teams and the other Stanley Cup finalist for the last 3 years sorted by TOI:

    2017 Champs:
    Player TOI
    Brian Dumoulin 456.48
    Ron Hainsey 449.17
    Olli Maatta 422.30
    Ian Cole 394.75
    Justin Schultz 325.33
    Trevor Daley 325.22
    Chad Ruhwedel 79.43
    Mark Streit 32.20

    2017 Finalists:
    Player TOI
    Mattias Ekholm 443.73
    P.K. Subban 431.95
    Roman Josi 416.18
    Ryan Ellis 397.58
    Matt Irwin 241.20
    Yannick Weber 234.73

    2016 Champs:
    Player TOI
    Kris Letang 504.38
    Brian Dumoulin 440.82
    Ben Lovejoy 360.92
    Ian Cole 315.47
    Olli Maatta 288.60
    Trevor Daley 250.63
    Justin Schultz 162.35
    Derrick Pouliot 26.73

    2016 Finalists:
    Player TOI
    Marc-Edouard Vlasic 445.20
    Brent Burns 443.58
    Paul Martin 437.83
    Justin Braun 436.65
    Roman Polak 351.58
    Brenden Dillon 344.82

    2015 Cup Champs:
    Player TOI
    Duncan Keith 552.73
    Niklas Hjalmarsson 510.25
    Johnny Oduya 494.02
    Brent Seabrook 490.50
    Michal Rozsival 159.02
    Kimmo Timonen 149.13
    Kyle Cumiskey 83.83
    David Rundblad 37.42
    Trevor van Riemsdyk 26.35

    2015 Finalists:
    Player TOI
    Victor Hedman 450.75
    Anton Stralman 417.72
    Braydon Coburn 369.68
    Matt Carle 361.07
    Andrej Sustr 356.08
    Jason Garrison 345.98
    Nikita Nesterov 142.00

    Glancing at these lists I would rank Larsson close to or better than:

    Hainsey, Duomolin, Braun, Stralman, Hjalmarsson.

    He’s fine as the second best Dman on a top pair.

    Was for 2 of his last 3 years in NJD too.

  98. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Players don’t ask for trades?

    In the NBA yes. In the NHL not so much. By all accounts this seems very much not in McDavid’s character. Unless the team does something really awful and offensive to him.

  99. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack: So then,can we agree its coaching?

    Coaching and the players.

    They each own it.

    I’d fire the coaching staff.

    They’re not deploying the players to maximize benefit 5v5, PP is far worse than the skill they have and the PK has never been that good since they got here.

    3 years is enough to come to a conclusion and its not a good one.

    Maybe EDM can be like SJS and go the Cup final the year after they missed the playoffs and fired McLellan?

  100. OmJo says:

    jtblack: Tyson BarrieFor one

    I don’t think Tyson Barrie is ab1/2RD. Haven’t the Avs been sheltering him?
    OZone start%
    68.8
    Dzone start%
    31.2

  101. Oil2Oilers says:

    Chiarelli will go a long way to redeeming himself if he can unbox himself from either the Lucic or Russell contracts this summer. On past form this does not look likely. But if the leaf’s were able to unload Clarkson it is possible.

    Lucic for Pacioretty would be my ideal solution. Anchor contract for an off season player.

    What more than Maroon would it take to get Jordan Kyrou? This would be an deadline win for me.

    Hoffman and Pacioretty accusation costs (assuming they won’t take anchors back) seem too high for the boxed in Oilers to make.

  102. OriginalPouzar says:

    Larsson will not be returning to the lineup tomorrow.

  103. Wilde says:

    jtblack: Tyson BarrieFor one

    Costs more than Hoffman and Pacioretty, which is the point I’m trying to make here.

    The centre asset would be 2018 1st, Nuge, or Klefbom in a Tyson Barrie deal.

  104. Psyche says:

    A Habs win in OT vs Ottawa this afternoon would help the Oilers’ lottery chances. 😉 Just sayin’.

    I can’t see Ottawa going on a tear and making up the ground between them and Edmonton. Especially after the trade deadline.

  105. godot10 says:

    Wilde: Strome+ could net a first in the deadline, and then you could sell Maroon for a 2nd and have the lion’s share of the ask for Hoffman/Patches

    Strome likely can’t get you anything now, since he needs to be qualified for $3 million and is only a $1 million dollar bottom six player who you will be able to get on July 1st for $1 million dollars.

  106. JimmyV1965 says:

    leadfarmer: I don’t think Kyrou is available.I think the other 3 would be available for a Hoffman or Patches trade with picks or lesser prospects to round out the difference.Maroon has higher value to the Oil because of his chemistry with Mcdavid and as long as Mcdavid is not getting traded with him his value is lower to other teams.If I’m a GM whether trading for him or negotiating a contract I’m using 3rd line wingers for comparisons because that’s really what Maroon is.And there is no way I’m giving up very good prospects for a Maroon rental.And adding picks does not move the needle much unless it’s the Oils first rounder.
    I would be very shocked if the return for Maroon is higher than a second rounder and C level prospect (think somewhere in the 7-12th player in prospect pool)

    I think Maroon had shown that he can play with multiple stars over his career. Very enticing for a GM. This is the very reason he should by considered one of the most valuable rentals on the market, possibly the most valuable rental on the market.

    I think you’re way over valuing the Blues prospects. Kostin was taken 31st overall last year. I happen to really like this prospect, but he’s done nothing this year to make him more valuable than a 31st pick now, which is essentially a second round pick.

    Part of the issue for the Blues is they cannot dictate that players like Kostin get prime minutes in the AHL because it is not their team. This is a real and meaningful issue for them right now. Kyrou is a better prospect, but they still have to find him minutes in the minors.

    So if you’re the Blues, do you trade two plus possibly a pick to get Patches or Hoffman, or do you trade one to get Maroon and possibly a pick in return? The same thing can be said about Yammer. We might love him here, but he’s simply not getting you Patches or Hoffman straight across.

    To be clear I wouldn’t trade Yammer in a pckg for these guys either, but our circumstances are much different than the Blues.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Dmen on

    He’s fine as the second best Dman on a top pair.

    Was for 2 of his last 3 years in NJD too.

    I’ve essentially said the same thing – similar to last year when Klefbom was exceptional (in the 2nd half).

    Even so, if Larsson is the 2nd best player on a top pairing, we still have no 2RD and I would like to acquire one over a top 6 winger. I don’t know who that player is and at what cost, however, I see it as a hole less likely to be filled internally as a top 6 winger.

    We are likely precluded from doing so given the Russell contract unless we trade a LHD and Russell (and Sekera) have NMCs and Klefbom and Nurse are the left side core of the future.

  108. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Larsson will not be returning to the lineup tomorrow.

    Larsson’s situation got me right in the feels.

  109. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Coaching and the players.

    They each own it.

    I’d fire the coaching staff.

    They’re not deploying the players to maximize benefit 5v5, PP is far worse than the skill they have and the PK has never been that good since they got here.

    3 years is enough to come to a conclusion and its not a good one.

    Maybe EDM can be like SJS and go the Cup final the year after they missed the playoffs and fired McLellan?

    No one wants to be the Cleveland Browns, but Tmac has had three years to put his stamp on the team and it doesn’t look good at all.

  110. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Dmen on Championship teams and the other Stanley Cup finalist for the last 3 years sorted by TOI:

    2017 Champs:
    PlayerTOI
    Brian Dumoulin456.48
    Ron Hainsey449.17
    Olli Maatta422.30
    Ian Cole394.75
    Justin Schultz325.33
    Trevor Daley325.22
    Chad Ruhwedel79.43
    Mark Streit32.20

    2017 Finalists:
    PlayerTOI
    Mattias Ekholm443.73
    P.K. Subban431.95
    Roman Josi416.18
    Ryan Ellis397.58
    Matt Irwin241.20
    Yannick Weber234.73

    2016 Champs:
    PlayerTOI
    Kris Letang504.38
    Brian Dumoulin440.82
    Ben Lovejoy360.92
    Ian Cole315.47
    Olli Maatta288.60
    Trevor Daley250.63
    Justin Schultz162.35
    Derrick Pouliot26.73

    2016 Finalists:
    PlayerTOI
    Marc-Edouard Vlasic445.20
    Brent Burns443.58
    Paul Martin437.83
    Justin Braun436.65
    Roman Polak351.58
    Brenden Dillon344.82

    2015 Cup Champs:
    PlayerTOI
    Duncan Keith552.73
    Niklas Hjalmarsson510.25
    Johnny Oduya494.02
    Brent Seabrook490.50
    Michal Rozsival159.02
    Kimmo Timonen149.13
    Kyle Cumiskey83.83
    David Rundblad37.42
    Trevor van Riemsdyk26.35

    2015 Finalists:
    PlayerTOI
    Victor Hedman450.75
    Anton Stralman417.72
    Braydon Coburn369.68
    Matt Carle361.07
    Andrej Sustr356.08
    Jason Garrison345.98
    Nikita Nesterov142.00

    Glancing at these lists I would rank Larsson close to or better than:

    Hainsey, Duomolin, Braun, Stralman, Hjalmarsson.

    He’s fine as the second best Dman on a top pair.

    Was for 2 of his last 3 years in NJD too.

    Interesting, EVERY Team has a Norris Trophy Winner or Candidate (except 2017 winner) #NeedAStud

  111. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    One of the other measurements for a first pair dman is to dominate TOI. I think Woodguy did a good piece on this…

    Our top player is Klefbom, he the #45 player in the NHL (the top 45 are all dman…as you would expect) he plays 22:39 minutes a game. The top minute muncher is Doughty at 27:09. The only potential tradeable player that plays MANY more minutes than Klefbom is Weber, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson … nice to dream but we can’t afford these players

    So you deploy what we have or gamble on an up and comer….and we have a few of those already.

  112. jtblack says:

    OmJo: I don’t think Tyson Barrie is ab1/2RD. Haven’t the Avs been sheltering him?
    OZone start%
    68.8
    Dzone start%
    31.2

    If you are trying to tell me Tyson Barrie is a 3RHD, then we should be able to pick him up for next to nothing!

  113. D says:

    HT Joe:

    godot10:

    Thank you both. Confirms my suspicion. Chia is probably in desperation mode because he knows his entire career is on the line. At the same time, I’m willing to bet that the Oilers have (finally and wisely) stopped Chia from making any more poor trades. I’m sure RNH would be gone by now if Chia had his way.

  114. russ99 says:

    Strome is a borderline keeper IMO, with the key being Chiarelli or the new GM being able to lowball him to sign before the QO kicks in, if he won’t go for that, sayonara.

    Can’t believe how many are resigned to 2-3 years of losing or moving a vitally needed first pick, just to keep Nuge. Sad state when some prefer keeping favorites to getting back to contention.

  115. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Coaching and the players.

    They each own it.

    I’d fire the coaching staff.

    They’re not deploying the players to maximize benefit 5v5, PP is far worse than the skill they have and the PK has never been that good since they got here.

    3 years is enough to come to a conclusion and its not a good one.

    Maybe EDM can be like SJS and go the Cup final the year after they missed the playoffs and fired McLellan?

    IMO: I think T Mac is a Good Coach BUT he hasn’t shown an ability to get this group on track. TMac has preached consistency, Learning how to manage expectations, playing the right way

    Well, as WG says, in 3 years he has not be able to accomplish this outside of a 14-2 Finish last season and the Playoffs

    If you Look at their record outside of that late season run, its been around fake .500 …. NOT GOOD ENOUGH

  116. --hudson-- says:

    Robby Fabbri could be an interesting target out of St Louis. Don’t know if he can be traded while injured but he’s only 22, shoots left, and won’t help the Blues this year. I wouldn’t trade Maroon straight up for him, but with a 2nd rounder would do it. Pending of course an evaluation on the likelihood of Fabbri resuming his career.

  117. Gayfish says:

    I think Maroon is value at 4. Term is mor important with him. The fact we can’t afford him at that speaks to a much bigger issue of cap management. We are kidding ouselves if we think we are gonna find 4-5 immense bargain contracts to offset our shitty contracts. You need some value deals to win, but you can’t have half your forwards on value deals. (1LW,1RW,2RW, 3LW, 3RW.)

  118. jtblack says:

    Any trade for Shea Weber would be a massive mistake. Webers best years are behind him. His contract is more of an anchor than Lucic’s

  119. Wilde says:

    godot10,

    His RFA qualification has exactly nothing to do with his rental value.

    Name a pure rental centre on the market that’s better than Strome this deadline. Then state their cap hit. Then name one that’s right handed. Then look at the market history for centres at the deadline. Derek Ryan and JT Miller are the only comparables, and Miller’s not on the market, Ryan’s on a team in the race.

    I’ll do some of the last part for you.

    Deshainais: Davidson

    Boyle: Froese and a 2nd.

    Hanzal: 1st and a 2nd.

    Vermette: Dahlbeck and a 1st.

    Notice how few centres move in the deadline?

  120. prefonmich says:

    I think at this stage, nearing the trade deadline, talk of acquiring players in areas of need is the wrong focus. Teams that are wanting to push themselves over the edge to contend for the cup are the teams that should be talking of filling holes right now.

    Oilers focus should be looking to trade any assets and/or offload unwanted players for as much as they can get. Here are our assets:
    1.Maroon
    2. Letestu
    3. Strome (possibly)
    4. cap space (we have it for this year, maybe we can ‘help a team out’ by taking an unwanted contract for this year in return for prospect or draft pick
    5. LHD- Russell would be ideal to offload but we have a glut of players and prospects on this side
    6. Caggiula
    7. Slepyshev

    I don’t believe now is the time to buy unless you can get someone you need from another seller on the cheap (not likely at this time, better to wait).

    Based on the haul from being sellers now, and based on your evaluations of players in the last third of the season, you re-assess areas of need and target your areas of need at draft time.

  121. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Coaching and the players.

    They each own it.

    I’d fire the coaching staff.

    They’re not deploying the players to maximize benefit 5v5, PP is far worse than the skill they have and the PK has never been that good since they got here.

    3 years is enough to come to a conclusion and its not a good one.

    Maybe EDM can be like SJS and go the Cup final the year after they missed the playoffs and fired McLellan?

    Actually, 3 months was enough time to collect enough observation and data in this case to make a solid prediction.

    Babcock’s comments in the media was also a tell.

  122. godot10 says:

    Oil2Oilers:
    Chiarelli will go a long way to redeeming himself if he can unbox himself from either the Lucic or Russell contracts this summer. On past form this does not look likely. But if the leaf’s were able to unload Clarkson it is possible.

    Lucic for Pacioretty would be my ideal solution. Anchor contract for an off season player.

    What more than Maroon would it take to get Jordan Kyrou? This would be an deadline win for me.

    Hoffman and Pacioretty accusation costs (assuming they won’t take anchors back) seem too high for the boxed in Oilers to make.

    I’d be happy with Barbashev (and to a less degree Schmaltz) for Maroon. Hopefully one would get Barashev and a 5th, to replace the one lost for Montoya.

  123. jtblack says:

    godot10: Actually, 3 months was enough time to collect enough observation and data in this case to make a solid prediction.

    Babcock’s comments in the media was also a tell.

    What was Babcock’s commentary?

  124. leadfarmer says:

    JimmyV1965: I think Maroon had shown that he can play with multiple stars over his career. Very enticing for a GM. This is the very reason he should by considered one of the most valuable rentals on the market, possibly the most valuable rental on the market.

    I think you’re way over valuing the Blues prospects. Kostin was taken 31st overall last year. I happen to really like this prospect, but he’s done nothing this year to make him more valuable than a 31st pick now, which is essentially a second round pick.

    Part of the issue for the Blues is they cannot dictate that players like Kostin get prime minutes in the AHL because it is not their team. This is a real and meaningful issue for them right now. Kyrou is a better prospect, but they still have to find him minutes in the minors.

    So if you’re the Blues, do you trade two plus possibly a pick to get Patches or Hoffman, or do you trade one to get Maroon and possibly a pick in return? The same thing can be said about Yammer. We might love him here, but he’s simply not getting you Patches or Hoffman straight across.

    To be clear I wouldn’t trade Yammer in a pckg for these guys either, but our circumstances are much different than the Blues.

    Why on earth would the Blues move on from one of their prospects for a second round pick. They want to compete now. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. People are going to be horribly disappointed when these trades come in. But hey I’ll join you guys. If Chia can’t get Kyrou for Maroon, Sprong for Latestube, Heiskanen for Strome he needs to be fired. There now please fire Chia

  125. godot10 says:

    jtblack: What was Babcock’s commentary?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6_X7PMN99Y

  126. Gayfish says:

    Think we can still retain a little on maroon if that helps trade value. I think regardless of ufa, adding a top 6 player at that cap hit is almost unheard of, and should be worth quite a bit. It could open a team up to make 2 deadline adds vs. 1.

  127. thehop says:

    jtblack: Tyson BarrieFor one

    He is most definitely not a 1st pairing, stud dman.

    Ekman Larsson in Phoenix yes
    Shea Weber in Montreal yes
    Karlsson in Ottawa yes

    That’s as far as my list goes.

  128. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: If you are trying to tell me Tyson Barrie is a 3RHD, then we should be able to pick him up for next to nothing!

    His deployment is very interesting.

    The soft minutes are clear.

    He is 3rd on the Avs D in TOI/G, 2nd at evens but plays almost 4 min/game on the PP and zero on the PK.

    I don’t think he can be labelled.

  129. OriginalPouzar says:

    To call Strome a $1M bottom line player shows extreme bias against the player that cannot lead to a mature conversation. Is he worth the $3M he will need to be qualified at? Maybe not but he’s playing a hell of a lot closer to a $3M player than a $1M player over the last month.

  130. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    To call Strome a $1M bottom line player shows extreme bias against the player that cannot lead to a mature conversation. Is he worth the $3M he will need to be qualified at?Maybe not but he’s playing a hell of a lot closer to a $3M player than a $1M player over the last month.

    Ryan Strome is basically Sam Gagner, and Sam Gagner is a far more consistent producer offensively, and Gagner can help a power play.

  131. thehop says:

    JimmyV1965: No one wants to be the Cleveland Browns, but Tmac has had three years to put his stamp on the team and it doesn’t look good at all.

    The Oilers are the Cleveland Browns of the NHL.

    I think I’m going to get tshirts made.

  132. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Ryan Strome is basically Sam Gagner, and Sam Gagner is a far more consistent producer offensively, and Gagner can help a power play.

    What does Sam Gagner have to do with $1M replacement level players? Seriously?

    Sam Gagner is signed for 3 years at over $3M and, aside from PP production, is generally weaker than Strome in most areas of the game.

  133. Professor Q says:

    JimmyV1965: No one wants to be the Cleveland Browns, but Tmac has had three years to put his stamp on the team and it doesn’t look good at all.

    Hey, Hue is still coaching.

    Now leave my Brownies alone…

    *slinks away to the pub in silence*

  134. Oil2Oilers says:

    godot10: Barbashev

    Barbashev has less goal scoring upside, but does have PK skills that could prove useful. Seems a reasonable return for a rental.

  135. jtblack says:

    thehop: He is most definitely not a 1st pairing, stud dman.

    Ekman Larsson in Phoenix yes
    Shea Weber in Montreal yes
    Karlsson in Ottawa yes

    That’s as far as my list goes.

    I never said he was 1st pair stud ….. My thought is he would compliment our D core well ..

  136. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar: His deployment is very interesting.

    The soft minutes are clear.

    He is 3rd on the Avs D in TOI/G, 2nd at evens but plays almost 4 min/game on the PP and zero on the PK.

    I don’t think he can be labelled.

    He can be labelled an offesnive puck moving RHD who is great on the PP and OK at evens Hes the perfect compliment to Larsson

  137. thehop says:

    jtblack: I never said he was 1st pair stud….. My thought is he would compliment our D core well ..

    I hear you

    Any move for a dman had to be for the #1 guy they haven’t had since…. Pronger… Or Justin Schultz

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: He can be labelled an offesnive puck moving RHD who is great on the PP and OK at evens Hes the perfect compliment to Larsson

    He wouldn’t be playing with Larsson though……

  139. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar: He wouldn’t be playing with Larsson though……

    OP: I am saying In Larsson you have a shut down, defensive, physical D man who can play 22 – 25 Mins at 5×5 and PK. When he is on the Bench, you play a puck moving, smooth skating D man like Barrie, who can play a lot of PP time also

  140. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Yes, I am comfortable with the continuation of the hole at top 6 winger next year and missing the playoffs
    – in particular if if an established RHD is acquired.

    As I’ve said, I am willing to wait for our current prospects to develop and provide true value in the top 6 – top 6 level production on their ELCs – our cap structure requires that going forward.I don’t see the ability to commit $5M plus to a veteran established winger while “fixing” the rest of the team.

    Yes, I acknowledge the risk of missing the playoffs next year and I’m willing to miss the playoffs next year in order to not acquire another medium to big money contract that doesn’t make sense.

    I know I’m in the minority but I’m looking past next season.

    Would you like Barrie added if possible?

  141. Spooky Lynx says:

    Another name added to the pot:

    “The Coyotes, we’ve learned, have made it known that Max Domi, with three goals this season and 12 in the two years following his 18-goal rookie season, is there for the taking.”

    http://nyp.st/2BTdlRv

  142. Extend Russell says:

    HT Joe: Man, the Petry guy looks really good… how do we get a player like that??😛

    Yea he’s so awesome
    Noteworthy thing though

    He’s -24
    Worst on the team
    By about a difference of 20 goals
    He also has 24 pts !

    So pretty much the same kinda trash he was here but worse by a bunch.

    Conversely the worst Oiler so far in this catagory is Sekera at -10

    I know +\- is a flawed stat but that’s an alarming discrepancy that arm chairs seem to leave out in their incredibly small sample size pp stats

    I liked Petry when he was here but he is a cog bottom 4 pairing defenseman that when played toppairing gets exposed for the mediocre lily he is.

  143. JimmyV1965 says:

    leadfarmer: Why on earth would the Blues move on from one of their prospects for a second round pick.They want to compete now.A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.People are going to be horribly disappointed when these trades come in.But hey I’ll join you guys.If Chia can’t get Kyrou for Maroon, Sprong for Latestube, Heiskanen for Strome he needs to be fired.There now please fire Chia

    I’m on board with Maroon for Kyrou being an overpayment. That’s why you would have to add to it. But I don’t believe Maroon for Kostin is an overpayment. Not sure about about the second round pick thing. Maroon is for the playoff run. The other trades you mentioned are not comparable at all of course. I guess we will agree to disagree.

  144. sliderule says:

    Oiler skills competition was revealing.

    Connor won the fastest skater with Slepy and Jp close second and third.So there is speed there it just doesn’t get used.

    Leon won the shooting competition with Davidson second.The only other forward that showed decent skill was Letestu.Khaira time was twice winning and bringing up the rear end was Lucic with more than triple time along with a bunch of shots missing net.

    It’s amazing to me that forwards can play in NHL and show so little shooting skill .I guess they can’t be bothered working on it and it’s obvious coaches can’t be emphasizing it as this was supposed to be oilers best at each skill.

  145. Gayfish says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    Another name added to the pot:

    “The Coyotes, we’ve learned, have made it known that Max Domi, with three goals this season and 12 in the two years following his 18-goal rookie season, is there for the taking.”

    http://nyp.st/2BTdlRv

    He’d be a good low risk pickup. At worst, he is a trade up on caggiula.

  146. leadfarmer says:

    Now Domi available. Chia you better be dumpster diving. Some of these guys are decent players

  147. HT Joe says:

    Extend Russell: exposed for the mediocre lily he is

    Oh wait, I missed that you referred to Petry as a “lily” in your earlier post. I’m deleting my previous playful response, since you’re clearly not worthy of a response other than a simple condemnation.

  148. who says:

    Wilde: Strome+ could net a first in the deadline, and then you could sell Maroon for a 2nd and have the lion’s share of the ask for Hoffman/Patches

    IF Strome plus gets you a first, and I don’t think it does. And if Maroon gets you a second. Why wouldn’t you keep the picks and stock the cupboards.
    Doubt the Oilers are winning the cup next year but they may have a shot 2 or 3 years from now.

  149. leadfarmer says:

    Gayfish: He’d be a good low risk pickup. At worst, he is a trade up on caggiula.

    I’m going to continue with my prediction that i made when we traded for Strome that he is here for one year and will update it to
    Eberle —->. Strome ——-> Domi
    Unite the clans, strome clan that is

  150. JimmyV1965 says:

    Professor Q: Hey, Hue is still coaching.

    Now leave my Brownies alone…

    *slinks away to the pub in silence*

    I hope for your sake that you’re not a Brown’s fan and Oilers fan. Geez, that’s way too much self inflicted pain. LOL

  151. JD_Wry says:

    It feels like a big game of Twister is going to break out, any minute now.

  152. Jethro Tull says:

    leadfarmer:
    Now Domi available.Chia you better be dumpster diving.Some of these guys are decent players

    And some of them aren’t……but which ones?

    PS: I would pay Domi a dump truck full of cash just for what he did to Kesler.

    https://youtu.be/dbcJFWskZ7s

  153. OriginalPouzar says:

    Samorukov with a primary assist on a PP goal (nice to see him with some PP time – he is behind Merkley). Game going to OT.

    Wells with a bit of a bounceback game – stops 31 of 34 in a 5-3 win.

  154. JD_Wry says:

    Lowetide

    @Lowetide
    2h
    2 hours ago

    More
    Jeff Petry is having a terrific weekend. Fine player.
    14 replies
    1 retweet
    21 likes

    Reply
    14
    Retweet
    1

    Like
    21

  155. Gret99zky says:

    Woodguy v2.0: C

    I’d fire the coaching staff.

    They’re not deploying the players to maximize benefit 5v5, PP is far worse than the skill they have and the PK has never been that good since they got here.

    3 years is enough to come to a conclusion and its not a good one.

    Same.

    They’ve shown no signs of improving deployment, PP, or PK.

    And if they go into next season with the same slow start then here we are again. With no coaches available and the temptation to fall back on the OBC. No thanks.

    Fire the entire staff in April. Start a comprehensive interviewing process. Hire the coach that can get the most out of the line-up and is willing to adjust systems if things start to go sideways.

  156. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: Would you like Barrie added if possible?

    It would be something I’d explore, yes. It would depend on acquisition cost and somehow moving on from Russell:

    Klef/Larsson
    Nurse/Barrie
    Sekera/Benning

    Davidson

    Unfortunately, my plan for an acquisition of a 1/2RD is pretty much contingent on moving Russell which is highly unlikely via trade and I don’t see them buying him out (even though the buyout structure is as good as can be).

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    Another name added to the pot:

    “The Coyotes, we’ve learned, have made it known that Max Domi, with three goals this season and 12 in the two years following his 18-goal rookie season, is there for the taking.”

    http://nyp.st/2BTdlRv

    I’d be more in favor of this type of move than a Hoffman or Max P. type of move. A decent bet for a bounce-back season, cheaper acquisition cost and cheaper cap hit.

    A decent bet for a true value contract in the top 6.

  158. OriginalPouzar says:

    sliderule:
    Oiler skills competition was revealing.

    Connor won the fastest skater with Slepy and Jp close second and third.So there is speed there it just doesn’t get used.

    I thought Nurse was third (after Slep)?

  159. Jethro Tull says:

    The problem with deployment is that you can only pasture the ponies you have with the land you have. If can’t put certain ponies with certain others, then it’s either start horse trading or send them to the canner.

  160. Wilde says:

    who: IF Strome plus gets you a first, and I don’t think it does. And if Maroon gets you a second. Why wouldn’t you keep the picks and stock the cupboards.
    Doubt the Oilers are winning the cup next year but they may have a shot 2 or 3 years from now.

    I’m not saying Strome alone gets you a first, but something like this:

    Strome(50% retained)+5th FOR 1st, Ian Cole

  161. Melvis says:

    Gret99zky: Same.

    They’ve shown no signs of improving deployment, PP, or PK.

    And if they go into next season with the same slow start then here we are again.With no coaches available and the temptation to fall back on the OBC.No thanks.

    More of the same. This thread is en fuego aujourd’hui, by the way.,,,

    And right at the top. “Chiarelli is boxed in…” At least.

    I wish the PK was boxed in. The GM, oth, is straddled over the elevator shaft.

    ,

    Fire the entire staff in April.Start a comprehensive interviewing process.Hire the coach that can get the most out of the line-up and is willing to adjust systems if things start to go sideways.

  162. who says:

    Wilde: I’m not saying Strome alone gets you a first, but something like this:

    Strome(50% retained)+5th FOR 1st, Ian Cole

    Yeah but my bigger question was would you really trade those picks for a year of Paciorretty or two of Hoffman. I wouldn’t.

  163. Melvis says:

    Melvis,

    Hmm, I seem to have done some mix and match as well.

  164. Wilde says:

    who: Yeah but my bigger question was would you really trade those picks for a year of Paciorretty or two of Hoffman. I wouldn’t.

    Hell yes, every day of the week. You HOPE you get that kind of player at late 20s and late 50s, this is the real thing and they’re in their prime, while we still have the core under contract.

    Those picks, if they even make it, won’t be half the contributor Hoffman or Pathes are by the time Nuge’s contract is up.

    These guys only having 1 and 2 years on their contract is perfect for this teams needs, not the other way around.

  165. Melvis says:

    I better slink out before getting riled about the Eagles, the tar, the broader brush, Michael Vick and the Dog Killers and assorted other NFL perps.

  166. Extend Russell says:

    JD_Wry:
    Lowetide


    @Lowetide2h
    2 hours ago

    More
    Jeff Petry is having a terrific weekend. Fine player.
    14 replies
    1 retweet
    21 likes

    Reply
    14
    Retweet
    1

    Like
    21

    I respectfully disagree with our host 🙂
    Not that he didn’t have a good weekend
    Small sample sizes are fun !
    Dash 24 however is all I’ll say
    The worst on the team by a long shot

    Cheers

  167. Professor Q says:

    Melvis:
    I better slink out before getting riled about the Eagles, the tar, the broader brush, Michael Vick and the Dog Killers and assorted other NFL perps.

    For all the NFL criminals, Michael Vick is oddly probably one of the least “bad” yet surprisingly the most vilified and punished.

    They certainly have their priorities out of whack.

  168. who says:

    The 2RD hole is going to be a problem for a while in my opinion. The Oilers have no one in the system who projects to be that guy. And they really can’t afford one unless they move a contract.
    The solution is to draft a couple high enders this year and wait.
    Or trade for an established guy by moving out salary.
    Lucic for Weber. I would do this deal if we sign Nurse long term and if Montreal retains 1 million. That would even out the salaries and in my opinion Weber is much more valuable at 2RD for the next 5 years than Lucic is at 2LW.
    Nuge or Klefbom for Barrie. Colorado would have to add significantly to get Klefbom. I know he’s had a tough year but his talent and that contract should have tremendous trade value.
    Don’t really like the trade options. My solution is to play Sekera at 2RD and draft at least 1 high end RD prospect this year.

  169. sliderule says:

    OriginalPouzar: I thought Nurse was third (after Slep)?

    Nurse was a close fourth

  170. who says:

    Wilde: Hell yes, every day of the week. You HOPE you get that kind of player at late 20s and late 50s, this is the real thing and they’re in their prime, while we still have the core under contract.

    Those picks, if they even make it, won’t be half the contributor Hoffman or Pathes are by the time Nuge’s contract is up.

    These guys only having 1 and 2 years on their contract is perfect for this teams needs, not the other way around.

    I agree, they are both value contracts. And I am assuming one of these picks turns into a similar player in 3 or 4 years.
    I’m not willing to trade 7 future years for 1 or 2 present years. But I am a patient man.

  171. jtblack says:

    who:
    The 2RD hole is going to be a problem for a while in my opinion. The Oilers have no one in the system who projects to be that guy. And they really can’t afford one unless they move a contract.
    The solution is to draft a couple high enders this year and wait.
    Or trade for an established guy by moving out salary.
    Lucic forWeber. I would do this deal if we sign Nurse long term and if Montreal retains 1 million. That would even out the salaries and in my opinion Weber is much more valuable at 2RD for the next 5 years than Lucic is at 2LW.
    Nuge or Klefbom for Barrie. Colorado would have to add significantly to get Klefbom. I know he’s had a tough year but his talent and that contract should have tremendous trade value.
    Don’t really like the trade options. Mysolution is to play Sekera at 2RD and draft at least 1 high end RD prospect this year.

    There is an abundance of skilled RHD in the 1st 2 Rounds this year. My guess is as many as 12 get picked in the top 40. So lets hope the oilers can get 1 or 2 from the entire draft.

  172. Lowetide says:

    sliderule: Nursewas a close fourth

    Initial reports had McDavid, Slepy, Nurse, that may have changed.

  173. deardylan says:

    Just read this at NHL.com. How do Oilers compare?

    Facts and Figures: Power-play success rate on the rise: NHL teams converting more with man-advantage despite less opportunities
    by John Kreiser
    https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-facts-and-figures-power-play-success-rate/c-295620666

    Power-play units around the NHL are increasingly doing more with less.

    With the season approaching the two-thirds point, teams are capitalizing on more power-play opportunities than they have in more than a quarter-century.

    In the 803 games played through Saturday, there have been 1,011 goals scored on 5,095 opportunities, a success rate of 19.8 percent. That’s up from 19.1 percent last season and would be the best in a full season since 1989-90, when teams scored on 20.8 percent of their chances.

    But the number of power plays has continued to decline as the season progresses.

    The Carolina Hurricanes continue to be the most disciplined team in the League; they’ve given opponents 124 power plays in 52 games (2.38 per game). The Anaheim Ducks have allowed a League-high 198 power plays in 53 games (3.74 per game).

  174. sliderule says:

    Lowetide: Initial reports had McDavid, Slepy, Nurse, that may have changed.

    The summary on oiler site show JP in third and Nurse fourth.
    Not bad for two big guys who were fighting the corners

  175. Extend Russell says:

    Go Eagles I guess :/

  176. OriginalPouzar says:

    Benny Scrivens with the shutout as Canada beats Latvia 2-0 in their first pre-tournament game.

    I know many (most) don’t care with the NHL not participating but I’m looking forward to watching and reporting. No, I don’t have the emotional investment (or excitement) that I would if this was a best on best country vs. country tournament but I’ll be paying attention and watching.

    Go Canada!

  177. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Lowetide: Initial reports had McDavid, Slepy, Nurse, that may have changed.

    Thank goodness they are trading a 6’2 220lb right shot player 23YO nearly as fast as Connor in a race. No hoper!

  178. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Thank goodness they are trading a 6’2 220lb right shot player 23YO nearly as fast as Connor in a race. No hoper!

    Its too bad that player is less than a sum of his parts – it really is.

  179. Scungilli Slushy says:

    So we know the cap and NMCs have created issues. Here is one roster shake up, trying to be realistic but who knows how deals shake out,

    Nuge and Benning to Avs for Barrie, Compher and a 2nd

    Letestu to Pens for a 3rd

    Maroon and a 3rd to Blues for Kyrou

    I added Hoffman but it costs too much and I just can’t pay a ton for only 2 more signed seasons and 29.

    So I am signing Grabner to a decent deal x 3 but no, no trade clause. If he falls off a cliff it only cost the contract. But he’s a skater, I think he is decent for 3 more.

    I made up with Slepy and agreed to give him 82 unless he is awful, and he agreed to cooperate. I suggested he eat Khiara’s and Caggiula’s lunch if he can to motivate him.

    I am making lines based on what seems likely:

    Lucic McD JP
    Grabner Drai Yama
    Cags Strome Compher
    Slepy Khaira Kassian
    Pak
    Malone or whomever

    Klef Larsson
    Nurse Barrie
    Sekera Russell
    Davie

    Talbot Inigo

    23 / 80M cap / 77.45M hit / 2.8M bonus / 2.55M space

    I’ve added skill and two right shot centres. And a lot of youth. Kyrou starts in the A.

    Is this a better or worse team?

  180. LMHF#1 says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    Another name added to the pot:

    “The Coyotes, we’ve learned, have made it known that Max Domi, with three goals this season and 12 in the two years following his 18-goal rookie season, is there for the taking.”

    http://nyp.st/2BTdlRv

    Time to pounce.

    They won’t of course.

  181. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Its too bad that player is less than a sum of his parts – it really is.

    Now, but there is a lot there. He is not Lander.

  182. Wilde says:

    who: I agree, they are both value contracts. And I am assuming one of these picks turns into a similar player in 3 or 4 years.
    I’m not willing to trade 7 future years for 1 or 2 present years. But I am a patient man.

    Max Pacioretty was 26th in scoring last year.

    Mike Hoffman was 36th.

    If you could get players like that in the late 20’s every draft, the entire NHL would turn over every two years.

    By the time Hoffman’s contract is up, we’ll be one year removed from having a centre problem, not a winger one.

  183. Munny says:

    Wish Romo was doing the color for this game.

    He has been a revelation in the booth.

  184. leadfarmer says:

    LMHF#1: Time to pounce.

    They won’t of course.

    Hoffman and Domi would go a long way to fixing our self induced winger problems

  185. leadfarmer says:

    Dubinsky wants out of Cbus. Yeah good luck with that.

  186. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Now, but there is a lot there. He is not Lander.

    Yup, Lander at least had a few of his tangible assets be a plus on the ice – face offs and PK.

    With everything I’ve said about Slep, I do see a player there and would like for him to get 2nd/3rd like minutes for a long stretch to see if that player can be unlocked.

  187. JD_Wry says:

    Extend Russell: Dash 24

    Yup, not like being one of the highest minute crunchers on a team that’s -25. Oh wait, yes of course it’s Petry’s fault that they’re ‘dash 25’.

  188. Bruce McCurdy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yup, Lander at least had a few of his tangible assets be a plus on the ice – face offs and PK.

    With everything I’ve said about Slep, I do see a player there and would like for him to get 2nd/3rd like minutes for a long stretch to see if that player can be unlocked.

    Such a frustrating player. Let him run free in a pasture & he looks like Secretariat. Harness him & put him in a race, though, & he disappears into the field.

  189. OriginalPouzar says:

    How’s that for an analogy?

    *clapping emoji*

  190. thehop says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    Another name added to the pot:

    “The Coyotes, we’ve learned, have made it known that Max Domi, with three goals this season and 12 in the two years following his 18-goal rookie season, is there for the taking.”

    http://nyp.st/2BTdlRv

    Yes please.

    I love this player.

  191. flyfish1168 says:

    thehop: Yes please.

    I love this player.

    IF the Yotes are doing a sale I would be more interested in Brendan Perlini.

  192. Gret99zky says:

    Eagles have this one in the bag. Guaranteed.

    Someone tell LT…

  193. Wilde says:

    flyfish1168: IF the Yotes are doing a sale I would be more interested in Brendan Perlini.

    From memory their FO likes Perlini, and for a fact we know their coaching staff does… Domi is also something I’d wait on, his dad was famous, and he one punched Kesler, the price might be higher than the goods.

    The key of dumpster diving is to not have any competition.

  194. OriginalPouzar says:

    Domi is shooting 2.9% this year – I think that will come up…..

    974 PDO.

    The cost shouldn’t be much more than Caggulia, maybe Caggulia and a LaLeggia level prospect.

  195. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Domi is shooting 2.9% this year – I think that will come up…..

    974 PDO.

    The cost shouldn’t be much more than Caggulia, maybe Caggulia and a LaLeggia level prospect.

    Highly doubt their highest offer will be Caggiula.

    Famous dad, former #12 pick, famous fights, his worst season is better than Caggiula’s best, Domi’s younger, I don’t know man that doesn’t even sound close.

    It’s not Caggiula+ahl tweener it’s Caggiula + 2nd, probably.

  196. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ya. maybe.

    2nd is a bit too much of a risk I think.

  197. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Domi is shooting 2.9% this year – I think that will come up…..

    974 PDO.

    The cost shouldn’t be much more than Caggulia, maybe Caggulia and a LaLeggia level prospect.

    You have to do that if it’s there, nothing to lose.

    Not that he’s CMDs LW, but talent. The talent level is higher, you take it.

    It sounds like they’re heading into Oiler territory losing patience with kids.

    Although Duclair seems like a big time project.

  198. Professor Q says:

    All those who jinxed the game to allow for the comeback will rue LT’s wrath.

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