Someday never comes

The Edmonton Oilers are in the “we don’t need no stinking favors” portion of their schedule. The New York Rangers shot their captain out of a cannon, have hobbled many of their forwards and started a goalie—born in Upper Yemen—with about 10 minutes NHL experience, but the Oilers threw it back. Don’t you dare try giving this team two points, they don’t need your pity.

  • Todd McLellan: “We can wave the magic wand, we can pound on the desk, we can do all we want. They (his players) have to accept some individual responsibility to be ready to play. There’s not enough of them right now. Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

THE ATHLETIC!

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WIMOWEH, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • March 2016: 2-0-0, goal differential +5 (4 points)
  • March 2017: 2-0-0, goal differential +4 (4 points)
  • March 2018: 0-2-0, goal differential -3 (0 points)

The Rangers sent out defensemen with names like Pionk, O’Gara, Quackenbush, Humperdinck and Norbert, but it was to no avail. Edmonton was bound and determined to send those two points away and they did it. Expect a better performance in the next game but this one was over as soon as the teams hit the ice. The Edmonton Oilers, a team that posted 103 points a year ago, is no longer a team. We are watching individuals who don’t realize they are playing in the final NHL games of their career. I wonder if Robert Nilsson knew it in real time and wonder about these young men, too.

AFTER 65, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • Oilers 15-16: 24-34-7, goal differential -44 (55 points)
  • Oilers 16-17: 35-22-8, goal differential +18 (78 points)
  • Oilers 17-18: 27-34-4, goal differential -35 (58 points)

I’ve mentioned this before but that 2015-16 season has been sticking like glue to this one. There have been chances for this year’s model to gain clearance but someday never comes. McDavid is leading like a lion and Nuge was a welcome sight. The auditioning wingers didn’t place a bullet point on the resume last night, not that I could see.

WHAT TO EXPECT FROM MARCH

  • At home to: Nashville, NY Rangers, Arizona, NY Islanders, Minnesota (Expected 2-3-0) (Actual 0-2-0)
  • On the road to: Calgary (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • At home to: San Jose (Expected 0-0-1) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • On the road to: Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Ottawa (Expected 1-2-1) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • At home to: Los Angeles, Anaheim, Columbus (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • On the road to: Vancouver, Calgary (Expected 1-0-1) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 6-7-3, 15 points in 16 games
  • Current results: 0-2-0, 0 points in two games

Edmonton has another good opportunity for a win tomorrow night and this club often performs well on the back of a subpar performance. This month has some potential to be explosive (the two Calgary games will be massive for fans) and of course Connor McDavid is on pace for 100 points.

DEFENSE, LAST NIGHT

  • Sekera-Benning were 9-5 in 10:30 together, Sekera went 3-4 with Ethan Bear and 3-0 with Kris Russell. Benning went 2-10 with Klefbom, that was not a happening pair. I thought Sekera had an improved night compared to his own recent performances, Benning straighted out once he was taken from the Klefbom pairing.
  • Nurse-Russell went 16-13 in 12:55, 1-1 GF, most of the good coming from time with 97 (13-7). Nurse had a nice chance to score late, for me his defensive work was very good on a night of chaos from the blue. Speaking of, Russell’s shift on the first goal against was baffling. If you watch the tape again, and have an explanation for it, please share. Seriously.
  • Klefbom-Bear were 14-9, 0-1 GF in 9:07 together. Pairing had eight offensive zone faceoffs, one of the few identifiable ploys by coach Todd McLellan in the game. I was impressed with Bear, who showed good speed, offensive instincts and a solid shot. Klefbom had a miserable game, I’m a fan of his work but last night lends credence to the idea of shutting him down.
  • Cam Talbot stopped 31 of 34, .912. He had no chance on the first goal, the second on was a PP (puck over glass by the goalie) and the final one came on a deflection (appeared to be a bit soft but your mileage may vary). I’ll say Talbot wasn’t the reason for the loss but he didn’t steal one, either. Then again, who would have thought he’d have to?
  • NaturalStatTrick and NHL.com.

FORWARDS, LAST NIGHT

  • Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl went 24-12, 1-1 GF and 5-2 HDSC. McDavid was pure fire, could have had some extra points, but credit to the Rangers they did some good work against him. Edmonton rarely had a tie let alone the lead, and that aided things. Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich lost the Corsi battle 14-8 and were 0-1 GF but I think most teams will take that against McDavid’s line these days. Leon had three giveaways. Too many.
  • Puljujarvi-Strome-Slepyshev went 14-14, 0-1 GF and 1-6 in HDSC. Went 6-5 against Fast-Spooner-Hayes but the 10-bell chances were 3-2 for the other guys. Strome had two kids with him, I get it, but he’s going to be looking for a raise this summer and needs the results to match. He wasn’t facing Everest last night, should have moved the needle to my eye. Part of the problem? Puljujarvi. He’s not lacking confidence but has the look of a man without a plan with the puck on his stick. Patience, a little patience, mm yeah, mm yeah.
  • Cammalleri-Nuge-Aberg went 9-11, Nuge scored a goal on a delayed penalty but the line itself was not dynamic (7-4 in shots, 0-1 in HDSC). Love the Nuge, wouldn’t mind seeing him with new linemates on Monday. Cammalleri does more good than a lot of these youngsters, that should be a concern to these youngsters.
  • Pakarinen-Khaira-Kassian were 4-12 in 7:31 and didn’t have a lot going on. Kassian took a dubious early penalty, Khaira had the puck on his stick to no avail but couldn’t make anything rhyme, I like his game without the puck and that side of the equation probably gets him an increased role next season. Pakarinen was the most noticeable player on the line, due to hitting.

OILERS SUMMER

Bob Nicholson had a conversation with the HNIC folks last night, setting twitter on fire. I give him credit for stepping in on a night (and after a first period) when things were going very badly. I’m reading a lot of conclusions being drawn from his comments but would remind you it isn’t his place to reveal all in March. Reading the tea leaves, I think it’s fair to suggest we’ll see some change after the season. I have expressed my opinion on the matter, and will drill down on the Nicholson comments, but the idea that Nicholson gave us the road map yesterday is wildly speculative and flies in the face of logic and reason.

The Oilers won’t stand pat because they can’t stand pat. Last night wasn’t the time nor the place. If you’re wondering when the reckoning, Edmonton’s final game is Saturday, April 7. I think it’s reasonable to expect a media avail in the days that follow.

 

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261 Responses to "Someday never comes"

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  1. flyfish1168 says:

    It will be interesting how the team responds after last evening showing. Just didn’t have the drive to the hard areas early and force the play. Yotes been playing pretty well lately. I just hope we can get a good start and stay focus. Another lesson relearned

  2. jtblack says:

    “Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Was that his Quote from Game 2? 7? 11? 15? 16? 44? 63?

    The Oilers have allowed the 1st Goal on the 1st shot 13 Times. Probaly had “unacceptable starts” in 20 games.

    That my friend is in the Coach. Plain and Simple. If the Coach cant find 5 guys to start the game and NOT give up a goal, thats his issue. If he continually trots out his starting net minder Even if he allows the 1st ahot to go in Over and Over…. Hoe is he holding anyone accountable?

    Coaching. Coaching. Coaching.

  3. jtblack says:

    When a Coach blames players, it simply means the Coach is unable to properly get his players to execute as the Coach wants. That is clearly happening, and has all year.

    The Problem? IT IS the coaches job to get players to execute.

    Sorry Todd. you and your staff get a “F” for this entire season based on

    1) Not being ready in 50% of games. You are right, ” Unacceptable”
    2) 31st PP and 31st PK. Atrocious
    3) Piss poor Roster deployment ALL YEAR

  4. jake70 says:

    “The Rangers sent out defensemen with names like ….., Humperdinck….. ”

    Please release me let me go
    Don’t know if I can love you anymore
    To waste my time would be a sin
    so release me, my OIlers ..let me go….

    ——-

    Tell me when you will win again
    Tell me quando quando quando….
    Oh my Oilers tell me when…

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    I am fine with Coach calling out the players for not being ready to play.

    Many have the position that is the coaches job to get the players ready and maybe it is, however, I’ve never thought that its incumbent on the coach to motivate the players to start a game – these are professional athletes making very good money – they should be ready to play each and every game – on their own.

    The coach is not without culpability for many decisions made last night, however, the start of the game, that god awful first period, yes, that is on the players.

    For Shame!

  6. Mr DeBakey says:

    “Speaking of, Russell’s shift on the first goal against was baffling. If you watch the tape again, and have an explanation for it, please share. Seriously.”

    * * *

    “McDavid was pure fire”

    The only guy with a better spot than Russell to watch the first NYR goal was McDavid.

  7. dustrock says:

    jtblack:
    “Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Was that his Quote from Game 2? 7? 11? 15? 16? 44? 63?

    The Oilers have allowed the 1st Goal on the 1st shot 13 Times.Probaly had “unacceptable starts” in 20 games.

    That my friend is in the Coach.Plain and Simple. If the Coach cant find 5 guys to start the game and NOT give up a goal, thats his issue.If he continually trots out his starting net minder Even if he allows the 1st ahot to go in Over and Over…. Hoe is he holding anyone accountable?

    Coaching.Coaching.Coaching.

    That’s certainly the easy answer. I question how much a coach has to get professional hockey players ready for a game. Being asleep at the wheel now is much different to me than being asleep at the wheel in Games 5,10 or 15.

    Letestu’s comments when he was traded sure made it sound like this is a team that didn’t realize teams would be coming hard for them this season.

    Respect. You earn it and then you have to earn it even more.

  8. jtblack says:

    flyfish1168: Another lesson relearned

    It’s game 66. How many Re-Learns do we get?

    We Re-learned for a decade.

    On a Positive, Ethan Bear looked Good! Guessing he will get EVERY opp to make the Roater next season.

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    Last night’s game was another indication of (1) how important Adam Larsson is to this team and (2) how important it is to acquire a legit 1/2 puck moving right show D in the off-season.

    Half the Rangers defence had Ethan Bear level of experience and all they had to do was employ a 1-4, a variation of the trap, and the Oilers had zero ability to transition the puck and break it.

    Part of that must be coaching, yes, but a big part of that is personnel – Kris Russell was 1RD last night – can we expect that to lead to a decent transition game against any level of opposition?

    Larsson, Russell, Benning, Bear, Gryba – that is not a good enough right side – adding one piece either above Larsson or at least at Larsson’s level is priority number 1.

  10. Rondo says:

    Can’t wait for the forensic analysis of the Oilers again. No bias here.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    “Speaking of, Russell’s shift on the first goal against was baffling. If you watch the tape again, and have an explanation for it, please share. Seriously.”


    * * *

    “McDavid was pure fire”

    The only guy with a better spot than Russell to watch the first NYR goal was McDavid.

    Russell had the puck on his stick and all he needed to do was get it out. THEN he went walkabout before finishing ‘also in photo’ on the actual goal. If you are looking for a forward to blame, Lucic is your man on the initial transaction.

  12. Pouzar says:

    Not even a feed from the best player in the world to a streaking Nuge could start the synapses firing in our Head Coach. Just another example of his ineptitude this year. God help us if he is back next year.

  13. Professor Q says:

    Pouzar:
    Not even a feed from the best player in the world to a streaking Nuge could start the synapses firing in our Head Coach. Just another example of his ineptitude this year. God help us if he is back next year.

    I don’t think he will be.

    To be quite honest they all need to go. Maybe Gretzky and Coffey can stay but everyone needs to go.

    Keep the core players obviously; no big trades needed. Just gut the staff.

  14. Pouzar says:

    jtblack: Sorry Todd. you and your staff get a “F” for this entire season based on

    1) Not being ready in 50% of games. You are right, ” Unacceptable”
    2) 31st PP and 31st PK. Atrocious
    3) Piss poor Roster deployment ALL YEAR

    Preach it bro…but be ready because they will all be back…because continuity.

  15. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar:
    Not even a feed from the best player in the world to a streaking Nuge could start the synapses firing in our Head Coach. Just another example of his ineptitude this year. God help us if he is back next year.

    McLellan mentioned the other day that he wanted Nuge to come back in a position he was comfortable in. Not sure I buy it, but does suggest he may in fact get some LW time with 97.

  16. Professor Q says:

    Also, unintentional pun with the “Streaking Nuge”, there. Well done.

  17. russ99 says:

    We seem to be at a similar crossroads now as we were at the end of Renney’s coaching run.

    Overall lack of talent past a few key players, players tuning out the coach.

    I’m not opposed to a coaching chance but one thing that has to stay is structure.

    The way forward is playing as a team within the systems, not every man for himself, all systems go. The players have obviously tuned out McLellan in regards to this, so a change is probably best, though the new staff will have many of the same challenges.

  18. Pouzar says:

    Professor Q: I don’t think he will be.

    I hope yer right but this smells like a bet! 😛

  19. OilClog says:

    Oh please this was the 40th game this season if I’m being generous where this team came out with no intentions of playing hockey, your job as a coach is to have your team ready from puck drop. This team is checked out before it begins with a coach that hasn’t had their back at all in the media. It’s over.

    This is coaching

    GM shipped out all the players the coach didn’t like the last two years, this level of coaching ineptitude is something you’d expect from a rookie head coach trying to reinvent the game. Not a supposedly always prepared, experienced head coach of a professional sports team.

    Has a team ever lost to this many backups? Why is this season a season of new lows we didn’t even have to suffer through pre-Mcdavid days.

    Fuck this it isn’t me it’s the players coach. Your old squad is light years better without you, all the players the Oilers have shipped out are light years better away from you and your stubborn bullshit.

    Last night a regular season game was coached like it was preseason, and was lost because the team played like it was preseason. All coaching

  20. Dustylegnd says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Last night’s game was another indication of (1) how important Adam Larsson is to this team and (2) how important it is to acquire a legit 1/2 puck moving right show D in the off-season.

    Larsson, Russell, Benning, Bear, Gryba – that is not a good enough right side – adding one piece either above Larsson or at least at Larsson’s level is priority number 1.

    I shudder to think what that will cost us with Chia at the helm…..Drai, Puljujärvi and this years 1st round pick, or will he need a sweetener……..

    Where oh where is our Stevie Y?

  21. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide: Russell had the puck on his stick and all he needed to do was get it out. THEN he went walkabout before finishing ‘also in photo’ on the actual goal. If you are looking for a forward to blame, Lucic is your man on the initial transaction.

    The failed zone exit put the forwards in a bad spot. I wouldnt blame Lucic as was in the spot he needed to be but had no chance of getting control of the puck. He had no chance of covering the Ranger forward when the zone exit failed.

    Russell either needs to take the man going to the net or block the pass through the slot going to that man. He did neither.

    Rangers made some very good plays on that goal. Talbot had no chance.

  22. Pouzar says:

    Professor Q:
    Also, unintentional pun with the “Streaking Nuge”, there. Well done.

    I only see him naked.

  23. OilClog says:

    If the Rangers let their coach go, Oilers could really use a coach that can win games with a backup with 2 games of experience and no wins, with 5 rookies in their D. They literally came in with the March 09 lineup the Oilers iced and beat the best player in the world. Now that is a coach, no players were thrown under the bus after either.

  24. Dustylegnd says:

    russ99:
    We seem to be at a similar crossroads now as we were at the end of Renney’s coaching run.

    Overall lack of talent past a few key players, players tuning out the coach.

    I’m not opposed to a coaching chance but one thing that has to stay is structure.

    The way forward is playing as a team within the systems, not every man for himself, all systems go. The players have obviously tuned out McLellan in regards to this, so a change is probably best, though the new staff will have many of the same challenges.

    Sounds like the toxic horrible legacy of Taylor Hall still festers inside the “room” even after paying Lucic 6 mill x 7 to come in and “hold people accountable”….hard to do that when you can’t score, make or take a pass or find anyone to fight…..the Oilers are under a bus….they better figure out how to draft and develop because they are between a rock dana very hard place…..good lord

  25. Professor Q says:

    Pouzar: I only see him naked.

    He’s always in the Nuge, that one.

  26. Ribs says:

    I really wonder what in the world is wrong with Klefbom. Not near the same player he’s shown to be in the past. Disappointing.

  27. Andy Dufresne says:

    ” The Edmonton Oilers, a team that posted 103 points a year ago, is no longer a team. We are watching individuals who don’t realize they are playing in the final NHL games of their career. I wonder if Robert Nilsson knew it in real time and wonder about these young men, too”

    There are only a handful of players on this tea….uh.. group of individuals..whose jobs are secure for next next season.

    GM’s see what we see. At this point in a lost season, when the coach is repeatedly using the phrase “unacceptable” to describe the effort/play…..heads are gonna role……It wont be a rebuild…..but I feel a major shuffle is almost a certainty now.

    I doubt that Dreamys injury saves him now……a “too low market value” is his only hope and even that is tenuous.

    The tell will be whether they shut him down or not. If they shut him down then they view the problem as an injury….if they dont shut him down then they view the player as the problem.

  28. Professor Q says:

    OilClog:
    If the Rangers let their coach go, Oilers could really use a coach that can win games with a backup with 2 games of experience and no wins, with 5 rookies in their D. They literally came in with the March 09 lineup the Oilers iced and beat the best player in the world. Now that is a coach, no players were thrown under the bus after either.

    His time in Vancouver is what frightens me. Similar to McLellan in San Jose, but also with more down years than Todd had.

  29. Wolfie says:

    It’s not the coaching. This roster is just not good enough. They are still woefully short on talent on the wings and on defence. Talbot has regressed badly this year. The playoff appearance last year was a gift but there remains plenty of work.

    This organization needs to stop bleeding talent. Just stop trading away NHL players for lesser players. Stop trading for “potential”. Stop kicking it down the road. We are here. How do we get better.

    Being a Winnipeger and having lived in Edmonton as a kid in the 80s I’ve followed both the Oilers and Jets closely.

    I know the Jets success has surprised many here. The Jets held on to players like Byfuglien and Wheeler and Little even through the hard times. And it’s given time and space for Scheifele and Laine and Ehlers to grow organically.

    Already that’s more depth than the Oilers have… think about it. The amount of catchup required is massive considering the Jets RD depth of Byfuglien, Trouba and Myers.

    Trading Hall was a mistake. I’m not even using hindsight. I knew from the beginning. It was a downgrade in talent. Stop downgrading.

    Trading Nuge is not the answer. Keep that guy. He’s good. Sometimes I think Chiarelli would do better running his trades through the EA NHL games…

  30. Andy Dufresne says:


    “Klefbom had a miserable game, I’m a fan of his work but last night lends credence to the idea of shipping him out”.

    Fixed that for ya.

  31. Andy Dufresne says:

    flyfish1168:
    It will be interesting how the team responds after last evening showing. Just didn’t have the drive to the hard areas early and force the play. Yotes been playing pretty well lately. I just hope we can get a good start and stay focus. Another lesson relearned

    IMO theres no way the phrase “another lesson learned” applies to this situation or to the group of individuals occupying space on the home bench last night. They are, in fact, not learning.

    The only question now is….which of the group does management now view as incapable of learning.

  32. Gret99zky says:

    Todd McLellan: “We can wave the magic wand, we can pound on the desk, we can do all we want. They (his players) have to accept some individual responsibility to be ready to play. There’s not enough of them right now. Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    And yet is accepted over, and over, and over, and over, and over again and again and again.

  33. Soup Fascist says:

    That Nicholson interview was “something”. I have never been less confident that anyone in Oilers management has a clue. I realize that should have been patently obvious based on some of the moves since Nicholson, Chiarelli and Eddie Izzard showed up, but I thought “hey, they must have a plan. They know what they are doing”. Clearly this is not the case.

    Nicholson’s interview – IMO – all but confirmed Nuge is not long for the world. Lucic is untradeable and showing no signs of life – despite playing with the best player in the world. The defense is a mess and they have a goaltender who is good except sometimes he has trouble stopping the puck – especially at the beginning of games. But don’t fear, there is a “plan”.

    So to confirm, we have a GM who has been taken to the wood shed on virtually every trade and player negotiation he has done. A coach who has zero ability to change or adapt – both in game or between tilts. And a president whose real talents include talking about a vague “plan” that the fans will eventually figure out how brilliant it is – oh yeah – and making a fucking burger for $15.

    And I assume most have received their ‘18-‘19 season ticket re-ups including requisite price increases.

    These guys have wasted 3 years – and counting – of an absolutely breath taking talent, who has been all that was advertised and more – with no hope in sight.

    I am out. Three words I never thought I would say about this team. Ever.

  34. Andy Dufresne says:

    jtblack:
    “Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Was that his Quote from Game 2? 7? 11? 15? 16? 44? 63?

    The Oilers have allowed the 1st Goal on the 1st shot 13 Times.Probaly had “unacceptable starts” in 20 games.

    That my friend is in the Coach.Plain and Simple. If the Coach cant find 5 guys to start the game and NOT give up a goal, thats his issue.If he continually trots out his starting net minder Even if he allows the 1st ahot to go in Over and Over…. Hoe is he holding anyone accountable?

    Coaching.Coaching.Coaching.

    Personally, I agree with you. The word “accountable” as used by TMac, has lost all meaning. It has gotten to the point where accountability now comes in only one form…Its no longer a queston of who is leaving…its now a question of how many? 3? 4? more?

    And while I agree with you….I dont think the Management (Nicholson/Chia) see it as a coaching problem. THey see it like Todd sees it. Its starts and ends with the players. It starts and ends with individual players taking personal responsibilty.

    They may be right. They are probably right.

    OF course Im only sumising….but the only price I see Todd paying is losing members of his staff.

  35. Melvis says:

    Professor Q:
    Also, unintentional pun with the “Streaking Nuge”, there. Well done.

    jtblack: Hoe is he holding anyone accountable?

    By definition, hoes aren’t accountable. Neither is Todd Gack, it seems. That dude looks like the psuedo epi in the cough syrup has him on 3 packs of Trident/60.

    I’m spitballing here, but everything else about the coaching has been covered half to death.

    The more digital gear and iPads you see behind the bench, the more behind the play they seem to be. Every minute of game time spent on an iPad is a minute spent on ancient history. Really. Typing this out right now, I’m in yesterday – certainly not in the moment. Or where I need to be a couple of minutes from now. JFC. Too many men penalty at the end of the game. And the suits are all looking down or pacing around back there like a bunch of headless chickens.

    Scotty Bowman didn’t need a bunch of crap behind the bench for making in game decisions.

    As for player accountability, how did they manage that last season?

  36. Dicky94 says:

    I’m not watching anymore Oiler games until Lucic is off the first line. There is absolutely no need for it and I believe it has cost TMac his job. Chia should go too but they will give him another year on a short leash that fix this.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: McLellan mentioned the other day that he wanted Nuge to come back in a position he was comfortable in. Not sure I buy it, but does suggest he may in fact get some LW time with 97.

    Yes, he expressly acknowledged the option of Nuge at 1LW – of course, one play off the rush on 6-5 and the fanbase spews vitriol for not making the switch 25 minutes in to 93’s return.

  38. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I am fine with Coach calling out the players for not being ready to play.

    Many have the position that is the coaches job to get the players ready and maybe it is, however, I’ve never thought that its incumbent on the coach to motivate the players to start a game – these are professional athletes making very good money – they should be ready to play each and every game – on their own.

    The coach is not without culpability for many decisions made last night, however, the start of the game, that god awful first period, yes, that is on the players.

    For Shame!

    Determine the players who played in an unacceptable fashion and felt no shame. Those are the players you move.

  39. exoilinxs says:

    Nicholsons interview left me feeling angry and at unease about next year. His comment that they will be evaluating everything sent shudders down my spine. Isnt that what they are supposed to do every summer? So they ddint evaluatevanythingbthis past summer? So assuming they evaluated everything last summer are they keeping the same group to evaluate this summer? If so we can expect another DOD. What a broken franchise.

  40. Gret99zky says:

    OilClog:
    Oh please this was the 40th game this season if I’m being generous where this team came out with no intentions of playing hockey, your job as a coach is to have your team ready from puck drop. This team is checked out before it begins with a coach that hasn’t had their back at all in the media. It’s over.

    This is coaching

    GM shipped out all the players the coach didn’t like the last two years, this level of coaching ineptitude is something you’d expect from a rookie head coach trying to reinvent the game. Not a supposedly always prepared, experienced head coach of a professional sports team.

    Has a team ever lost to this many backups? Why is this season a season of new lows we didn’t even have to suffer through pre-Mcdavid days.

    Fuck this it isn’t me it’s the players coach. Your old squad is light years better without you, all the players the Oilers have shipped out are light years better away from you and your stubborn bullshit.

    Last night a regular season game was coached like it was preseason, and was lost because the team played like it was preseason. All coaching

    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.

  41. HT Joe says:

    Gret99zky:
    Todd McLellan: “We can wave the magic wand, we can pound on the desk, we can do all we want. They (his players) have to accept some individual responsibility to be ready to play. There’s not enough of them right now. Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    And yet is accepted over, and over, and over, and over, and over again and again and again.

    It’s fun right? “Players aren’t ready to play” and then he keeps anchoring McDavid to Lucic.

  42. Clarkenstein says:

    Granted the Rangers had something to play for last night but their roster has been gutted yet they come out and work like hell. This is coaching. Is there ANYBODY, ANYBODY on here that doesn’t think TMac and his staff should be FIRED! ANYBODY?

  43. HT Joe says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I am fine with Coach calling out the players for not being ready to play.

    Many have the position that is the coaches job to get the players ready and maybe it is, however, I’ve never thought that its incumbent on the coach to motivate the players to start a game – these are professional athletes making very good money – they should be ready to play each and every game – on their own.

    The coach is not without culpability for many decisions made last night, however, the start of the game, that god awful first period, yes, that is on the players.

    For Shame!

    The coach’s words would hold more water if he had healthy scratched Lucic ONCE during Lucic’s horrible slump. But he hasn’t. Meanwhile, other players have been dumped to the 4th line or healthy scratched for much more minor issues.

    Maybe the players are tired of the coach clearly playing favourites, when it is the coach’s job to make his actions based on results.

  44. Georges says:

    VOR asked a question yesterday that I responded to late last night. Reposting as the information is on topic to the discussion this morning.

    “Which brings me to my question how bad is Todd Mcllelan relative to the entire other 30 head coaches in the NHL? How are we making that assessment?”

    Let’s assess McLellan by his record.

    The League expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01. There have been 566 coaching seasons since then to 2016-17.

    Coaches were not retained for another season, i.e., fired, in about 30% of the cases.

    Getting to the playoffs is very important for job security.

    If a coach took his team to the playoffs, he had a 9% chance of being fired.

    If he failed to take his team to the playoffs, he had a 49% chance of being fired.

    And, if a coach failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season, like McLellan will do this year, he had a 64% chance of being fired.

    There have been 15 times where a coach has failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season but was retained for at least another season.

    Of those 15 cases, in only one instance did the coach manage to later take his team to the Finals: Paul Maurice made the Finals in his 7th season with HAR/CAR. They lost 4-1 to the Wings in 2001-02. Some of the 15 were kept on because they had won the Cup or made the Finals with the team in their first 2 seasons. So they were given more rope. It didn’t pay off for the teams. Not one of those 15 managed to guide their team to a later Cup win.

    Maurice can potentially repeat what he did with CAR this season with WPG. This will be his 5th season with the club and the team has missed the playoffs the past 2 seasons. They were swept in the first round 3 years ago. The Jets are a model of organizational stability and we’ll see if that finally pays off in playoff wins for them this year. Maurice seems to have cornered the market on patient teams.

    If the Oilers say they want to win the Cup and they decide to retain McLellan, they’ll be betting on something happening that hasn’t happened in the past 16 seasons. They’ll be saying one thing and doing another.

    Coaches succeed early. If they don’t succeed early, they don’t succeed later. They simply run out of time to build relationships, foundations, belief systems, whatever it is they’re trying to do. The League reacts to results in a much simpler feedback cycle than the one that exists between player and coach.

    In McLellan’s case, he didn’t succeed early. And the team was revamped. Then he didn’t get the revamped team to the Finals. Now he’s not even getting the pre-season WC favorite to the playoffs. He’s instead brought them back to where they were when he started with the club, giving up a horrendous number of goals, playing confused, losing games.

    So what do you think we should do? Give him one more year of CMD’s career?

  45. Andy Dufresne says:

    dustrock: That’s certainly the easy answer. I question how much a coach has to get professional hockey players ready for a game. Being asleep at the wheel now is much different to me than being asleep at the wheel in Games 5,10 or 15.

    Letestu’s comments when he was traded sure made it sound like this is a team that didn’t realize teams would be coming hard for them this season.

    Respect. You earn it and then you have to earn it even more.

    Ive said it before in previous posts. Teams and especially goalies get up to play McDavid.

    Its the reason we get our asses handed to us on platter when we play teams like Buffalo and the Humperdinks of New York.

    That part might well be on the coaches. They have to find a way to get it into the heads of the players that they are NOT “as good as thier best game” but rather are “ONLY as good as thier worst game”

    This team is somehow convinced that it is a good team….you can here it in their comments….phrases like…”Oh we should have faired better against a team thats so low in the standings” REALLY! YOU ARE IN 27th PLACE IN THE STANDINGS!!!

    Good teams realize that two points against a 30th place team count EXACTLY the same as two points against a cup contender. Good teams feast on the teams below them in the standings.

    The Oilers?,…..dont even show up……and this my friends is not hyperbole….it is FACT.

  46. Captain Smarmy says:

    Katz is one of the worst owners in pro-sports.

    Players fault? Coaches fault? GMs fault? All of the above?

    The culture and leadership of the organization starts at the top and Daryl put together a bloated, bumbling braintrust that even Connor McDavid can’t overcome.

    I don’t know how you guys can do it. Game after game of watching the Oilers. Edmonton deserves so much better then what they’ve got. In the end the city pays for a rink, watch last place trash hockey, and gets to hear how much happier former players are getting away from the fishbowl that is the Six Ring Circus.

  47. dustrock says:

    Melvis:

    As for player accountability, how did they manage that last season?

    Right. Why was last season different? Why did they appear more confident? How many times did they come back from being down 1 or 2?

    What’s the difference this year?

    It’s kind of the same questions I have about Las Vegas – why are they so good with a bunch of roster, coach, and GM castoffs? Is it the proverbial “nothing to lose”, so no pressure? A bunch of players having career years that will regress next year?

    I mean, there must be 30 NHL GMs looking at Vegas right now thinking “what does this mean?”

  48. jtblack says:

    this club often performs well on the back of a subpar performance. *****

    Is this true LT? I would suggest we “hope and expect” them to play well after a poor performance, but one look at their overall win-loss record will tell you that they’ve played poorly after a poor performance more often than not. How many Winless streaks of 3 or more games? This team knows how to fillow up a poor game with another. Don’t be fooled.

  49. Andy Dufresne says:

    Captain Smarmy:
    Katz is one of the worst owners in pro-sports.

    Players fault? Coaches fault? GMs fault? All of the above?

    The culture and leadership of the organization starts at the top and Daryl put together a bloated, bumbling braintrust that even Connor McDavid can’t overcome.

    I don’t know how you guys can do it. Game after game of watching the Oilers. Edmonton deserves so much better then what they’ve got. In the end the city pays for a rink,watch last place trash hockey, and gets to hear how much happier former players are getting away from the fishbowl that is the Six Ring Circus.

    Katz is a blessing to Edmonton and to hockey in this City. Another FACT.

  50. Oilman99 says:

    Lowetide: Russell had the puck on his stick and all he needed to do was get it out. THEN he went walkabout before finishing ‘also in photo’ on the actual goal. If you are looking for a forward to blame, Lucic is your man on the initial transaction.

    Two veteran players who should know better, not acceptable. Get Lucic off the top six,he is nothing but a train wreck . Had the puck bellow the goal line with a team mate ten feet away, and passes it behind the net to nobody but Rangers,this crap has to stop,the guy kills play after play.

  51. dustrock says:

    Georges,

    Unless Quenneville is available, who do you want to bring in who’s a better pick than McLellan?

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    OilClog:
    Oh please this was the 40th game this season if I’m being generous where this team came out with no intentions of playing hockey, your job as a coach is to have your team ready from puck drop. This team is checked out before it begins with a coach that hasn’t had their back at all in the media. It’s over.

    This is coaching

    I don’t agree.

    If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    As far as “being ready to play”, their commitment to effort, their “give a fuck level”, their motivation to start the game – hell, no, that’s not the coaches job. This isn’t Friday Night Lights, the coach shouldn’t need to pump the team up with a motivational speech. Its on the players themselves to be ready to play the game, each and every night.

  53. jtblack says:

    OilClog:
    Oh please this was the 40th game this season if I’m being generous where this team came out with no intentions of playing hockey, your job as a coach is to have your team ready from puck drop. This team is checked out before it begins with a coach that hasn’t had their back at all in the media. It’s over.

    This is coaching

    GM shipped out all the players the coach didn’t like the last two years, this level of coaching ineptitude is something you’d expect from a rookie head coach trying to reinvent the game. Not a supposedly always prepared, experienced head coach of a professional sports team.

    Has a team ever lost to this many backups? Why is this season a season of new lows we didn’t even have to suffer through pre-Mcdavid days.

    Fuck this it isn’t me it’s the players coach. Your old squad is light years better without you, all the players the Oilers have shipped out are light years better away from you and your stubborn bullshit.

    Last night a regular season game was coached like it was preseason, and was lost because the team played like it was preseason. All coaching

    +1

  54. OilClog says:

    What are the players suppose to do when the coach constantly decides to throw 27 over the boards with 97?

    What are the players suppose to do when the coach says the 19yr needs to be able to drive his own line in order to play in the top 6?

    What are the players suppose to do when every other coach knows exactly what’s coming and the entire book is out on their game plan?

    3yrs.. this team hasn’t progressed as a group in 3 years, the culture is the same 3 years in.

    Nope not the coach at all

  55. Pouzar says:

    dustrock:
    Georges,

    Unless Quenneville is available, who do you want to bring in who’s a better pick than McLellan?

    Do you have a dart and a blindfold?

  56. OilClog says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree.

    If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    As far as “being ready to play”, their commitment to effort, their “give a fuck level”, their motivation to start the game – hell, no, that’s not the coaches job.This isn’t Friday Night Lights, the coach shouldn’t need to pump the team up with a motivational speech.Its on the players themselves to be ready to play the game, each and every night.

    Actually that is all on the coach, leadership, culture, accountability. That’s what a veteran head coach or any head coach worth their bread and butter is an expert at. Making sure their squad is prepared and ready to go

    And if you’re nearing game 70 and your team is still falling flat, it’s clear you’ve lost the room!

  57. Gret99zky says:

    LoL

    When this group eliminates themselves from playoff contention in December again next year, everyone will be calling for TMc and Chia’s heads.

    And nothing will happen.

    Because it’s easier to find freshly fired coaches and GMs in the summer.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    OilClog:
    What are the players suppose to do when the coach constantly decides to throw 27 over the boards with 97?

    What are the players suppose to do when the coach says the 19yr needs to be able to drive his own line in order to play in the top 6?

    What are the players suppose to do when every other coach knows exactly what’s coming and the entire book is out on their game plan?

    3yrs.. this team hasn’t progressed as a group in 3 years, the culture is the same 3 years in.

    Nope not the coach at all

    Moving the goal posts.

    I never said the coach is doing a good job. I never said the coach hasn’t made and isn’t making mistakes.

    I never said the coach shouldn’t be replaced.

    I was responding to your point on the coach “having the team ready to play” – the commitment and effort level of the players – its not on the coach to give a speech before every game so the players are ready to give full effort from the opening faceoff as you implied in your post.

  59. Brantford Boy says:

    Perhaps not exactly the same, but the 4 goals Nashville scored and last nights 1st goal all seemed to have the common them, cross seam pass from the slot, bang, goal against… I suspect the video room for our opponents see something ‘our coach’ doesn’t… I think the assistants need to change and I’d like to see some ‘actual’ assistant coaches (usually good ex-players) behind the bench… yes Jim Johnson played…

    Examples:
    https://www.nhl.com/islanders/team/coaching-staff
    https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/coaching-staff

  60. Georges says:

    “We can wave the magic wand, we can pound on the desk, we can do all we want. They (his players) have to accept some individual responsibility to be ready to play. There’s not enough of them right now. Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Right now…? The team scored first in 6 games prior to this one and went 3-3.

    The game was tied 1-1 and then, oh hey, Todd, look what happened… your opponent scored on you at home on the power play. That hasn’t happened before, right? We get a chance to tie with a late power play of our own. Did you notice what happened there, Todd… the polish to our game three years into your tenure here? Did you notice you ice the worst PP in the league with the best player in the league?

    I wouldn’t have to try that hard to find a similar quote to this from two years ago. Let’s all blame the players. Let’s identify them individually. Let’s call them out. Let’s get cracking on culture change 3.0.

    The right assessment of that game is they got a power play goal and we didn’t. The coach may not have noticed but it’s happened a lot.

    The players deserve much better than this sorry, proven to lose coaching staff.

  61. Georges says:

    dustrock:
    Georges,

    Unless Quenneville is available, who do you want to bring in who’s a better pick than McLellan?

    Hmm… I guess people don’t hang on my every word. How sad and humbling.

    Here’s what I posted on Feb. 11:

    As for replacements for the HC, there are two categories of options: coaches who’ve made the Finals and coaches who haven’t.

    20 coaches have made the Finals since the league expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01. 8 of them have multiple appearances. They account for 20 of the 32 Finals spots over that time frame.

    Here’s a list of who is or could be available in the off-season:

    Coach, Finals Appearances (* means Cup Winner)

    Quenneville, 3*
    Sutter, 3*
    Vigneault, 2
    Maurice, 1
    Bylsma, 1*
    MacTavish, 1
    Therrien, 1
    Hartley, 1*
    Tortorella, 1*
    Cooper, 1

    Of the coaches who haven’t made the Finals, you can go with another McLellan type, veteran coach without a Finals appearance. We’d probably want someone with some track record of turnarounds. You’re hoping for a Quenneville or a Sutter story here, guys who had to wait a long time to break through to the Finals and the Cup. These guys are or might be available in the off season.

    Dave Tippett
    Bruce Boudreau
    Barry Trotz
    Jacques Martin (won the Cup twice as an assistant with PIT)

    It’s trickier to find signal on who may be able to break through among the rest. New coaches have a high rate of failure. I don’t think PC can go that route 3 years in. What he might want to consider are coaches who have 1) had a chance before but not much of one, 2) have some playoff experience, 3) a reasonable regular season record, and 4) they’ve been unable to find their way back to the HC ranks. I’m basing this on Bruce Cassidy and Mike Sullivan. Maybe there’s some drive to win and prove themselves after their initial failure. And they’ve had time to learn from whatever went wrong the first time.

    Here are some other names to consider:

    Patrick Roy
    Jim Playfair
    Cory Clouston
    Craig Berube
    Dale Hunter
    Adam Oates
    Dave Cameron
    Mike Johnston
    Guy Carbonneau
    Tony Granato

    I’ll also throw Guy Boucher in there for the run with OTT from last season and the fact he was one game away from the Finals with TBL in his first season coaching. He might be available.

    Some names here may be more ridiculous than others. And some names won’t be available. But, as you can see, it’s a big list.

  62. HT Joe says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree.

    If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    As far as “being ready to play”, their commitment to effort, their “give a fuck level”, their motivation to start the game – hell, no, that’s not the coaches job.This isn’t Friday Night Lights, the coach shouldn’t need to pump the team up with a motivational speech.Its on the players themselves to be ready to play the game, each and every night.

    I don’t know if you’ve got extensive experience coaching sports teams, so maybe you have a better understanding of these things than I do. All I can draw upon is my experience managing groups of professionals at work… and if I had a team that was consistently underperforming, and I then told my supervisor “my team consists of professionals and its not my job to make sure they’re motivated / ready to excel”, I would be fired faster than you can say “responsibility”.

    If coaching a sports team is different, and TMac literally has no responsibility to try to motivate a group of seemingly unmotivated players, I just don’t know what to think anymore.

  63. OilClog says:

    OriginalPouzar: Moving the goal posts.

    I never said the coach is doing a good job.I never said the coach hasn’t made and isn’t making mistakes.

    I never said the coach shouldn’t be replaced.

    I was responding to your point on the coach “having the team ready to play” – the commitment and effort level of the players – its not on the coach to give a speech before every game so the players are ready to give full effort from the opening faceoff as you implied in your post.

    It’s the coaching #1 job to have his team ready to play. Who said he needs to give speeches? How about quality systems, better line combos, better use of his bench. Does he do those things? No.

  64. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree.

    If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    As far as “being ready to play”, their commitment to effort, their “give a fuck level”, their motivation to start the game – hell, no, that’s not the coaches job.This isn’t Friday Night Lights, the coach shouldn’t need to pump the team up with a motivational speech.Its on the players themselves to be ready to play the game, each and every night.

    The problem is this has been happening all season long close to half the time,and nothing has changed. Maybe an electric cattle prod at the gate is needed.

  65. Gret99zky says:

    Question: What the fuck IS the coach’s job? And what part of it is he doing well?

  66. HT Joe says:

    Georges,

    I am personally hoping to see Todd get the “Todd Nelson” treatment, and have Craig MacTavish move down to the bench to monitor his every move for the rest of the season. The season is lost… it would be nice to have some fun.

  67. OilClog says:

    HT Joe: I don’t know if you’ve got extensive experience coaching sports teams, so maybe you have a better understanding of these things than I do.All I can draw upon is my experience managing groups of professionals at work… and if I had a team that was consistently underperforming, and I then told my supervisor “my team consists of professionals and its not my job to make sure they’re motivated / ready to excel”, I would be fired faster than you can say “responsibility”.

    If coaching a sports team is different, and TMac literally has no responsibility to try to motivate a group of seemingly unmotivated players, I just don’t know what to think anymore.

    +2

  68. OilClog says:

    Gret99zky:
    Question:What the fuck IS the coach’s job?And what part of it is he doing well?

    Coddle Lucic, wear fancy suits!

  69. anduril says:

    OilClog:
    If the Rangers let their coach go, Oilers could really use a coach that can win games with a backup with 2 games of experience and no wins, with 5 rookies in their D. They literally came in with the March 09 lineup the Oilers iced and beat the best player in the world. Now that is a coach, no players were thrown under the bus after either.

    Not sure I want AV. I’d rather Edmonton go with someone like a Kris Knoblauch, someone who demonstrates an ability to adapt systems to players rather than trying to fit players into systems, which seems to be what TMc does. But more to the point, yeah, I’m tired of the injury excuses. Good teams play well even when good players are out. The Jets had Byfuglien and Schiefele out this season and didn’t miss a beat. That’s their top centre and their top D. We’ve had McDavid and Draisaitl in the lineup all season. The roster isn’t good enough (that’s on Chia) but the team has not been prepared, has poor systems (see esp. PP and PK), continues to reward poor performing players with ice time (see esp. Lucic, Caggiula, and Russell), and is screwing with the development of young players (see esp. putting JP through the line blender and putting him on LW???). Bad seasons are bad seasons, and everything seems bad in a bad season precisely because nothing is working. I get that but some things are clearly undeniable. In my opinion, Chia has to go. He’s bled talent and has to be held accountable for a roster that has only borderline NHL wingers everywhere in the lineup, and a D that isn’t a whole lot better than when he started, bare cupboards in the AHL at forward, and some horrendous contracts. The new GM needs to pick up a backup that has a reasonable chance to push Talbot for games–Hutchinson quality or above–and then needs to either pull off a big haul with one or two of our few tradeable assets (see Stevie Y or David Poile, or Sakic’s Duchene deal) or, if unable to make that happen, tinker successfully around the edges and show some patience. I also think, after some player exit interviews to assess whether he still has the confidence of the room, McLellan needs to revamp his staff and be put on a tight leash for the fall with a new high quality assistant being an heir apparent. If he doesn’t agree to do so, he needs to go and, if the Oilers don’t start well in the first 10-20 games, he needs to go. That’s my take.

  70. Georges says:

    dustrock:
    Georges,

    Unless Quenneville is available, who do you want to bring in who’s a better pick than McLellan?

    My short answer would be Sutter. That LAK team played with ridiculous intensity for a few years and won twice. Yes, Quick the first time, but not as much Quick the second time. I have no idea why he hasn’t been hired yet. You eliminate the winning coach variable from the overall equation and then see what else is needed beyond that to make the equation work. We made the mistake of hiring a not winning coach and then taking franchise altering steps on personnel when that coach didn’t win.

  71. OilClog says:

    I don’t want AV! I just saw him beat us with a back up and 5 rookies off the street as his defence, so it’s just fresh in the mind how easy it is for teams to go against the Oilers right now.

    JQ or DT would be my choice

  72. OilClog says:

    TLC – could you imagine that line… but fucking Taylor didn’t want to dump it into the corner and chase it down!

  73. Soup Fascist says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, he expressly acknowledged the option of Nuge at 1LW – of course, one play off the rush on 6-5 and the fanbase spews vitriol for not making the switch 25 minutes in to 93’s return.

    ……. 2.75 years into McDavid’s tenure.

  74. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar: Moving the goal posts.

    I never said the coach is doing a good job.I never said the coach hasn’t made and isn’t making mistakes.

    I never said the coach shouldn’t be replaced.

    I was responding to your point on the coach “having the team ready to play” – the commitment and effort level of the players – its not on the coach to give a speech before every game so the players are ready to give full effort from the opening faceoff as you implied in your post.

    OP: It is on the Coach to start the Game with 5 players he can trust. And maybe he should have hooked Talbot once or twice after giving up a Goal on the 1st shot and let him know its not acceptable.

    But TMac just keeps doing the same things over and over

  75. Oilman99 says:

    Georges:
    VOR asked a question yesterday that I responded to late last night. Reposting as the information is on topic to the discussion this morning.

    “Which brings me to my question how bad is Todd Mcllelan relative to the entire other 30 head coaches in the NHL? How are we making that assessment?”

    Let’s assess McLellan by his record.

    The League expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01. There have been 566 coaching seasons since then to 2016-17.

    Coaches were not retained for another season, i.e., fired, in about 30% of the cases.

    Getting to the playoffs is very important for job security.

    If a coach took his team to the playoffs, he had a 9% chance of being fired.

    If he failed to take his team to the playoffs, he had a 49% chance of being fired.

    And, if a coach failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season, like McLellan will do this year, he had a 64% chance of being fired.

    There have been 15 times where a coach has failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season but was retained for at least another season.

    Of those 15 cases, in only one instance did the coach manage to later take his team to the Finals: Paul Maurice made the Finals in his 7th season with HAR/CAR. They lost 4-1 to the Wings in 2001-02. Some of the 15 were kept on because they had won the Cup or made the Finals with the team in their first 2 seasons. So they were given more rope. It didn’t pay off for the teams. Not one of those 15 managed to guide their team to a later Cup win.

    Maurice can potentially repeat what he did with CAR this season with WPG. This will be his 5th season with the club and the team has missed the playoffs the past 2 seasons. They were swept in the first round 3 years ago. The Jets are a model of organizational stability and we’ll see if that finally pays off in playoff wins for them this year. Maurice seems to have cornered the market on patient teams.

    If the Oilers say they want to win the Cup and they decide to retain McLellan, they’ll be betting on something happening that hasn’t happened in the past 16 seasons. They’ll be saying one thing and doing another.

    Coaches succeed early. If they don’t succeed early, they don’t succeed later. They simply run out of time to build relationships, foundations, belief systems, whatever it is they’re trying to do. The League reacts to results in a much simpler feedback cycle than the one that exists between player and coach.

    In McLellan’s case, he didn’t succeed early. And the team was revamped. Then he didn’t get the revamped team to the Finals. Now he’s not even getting the pre-season WC favorite to the playoffs. He’s instead brought them back to where they were when he started with the club, giving up a horrendous number of goals, playing confused, losing games.

    So what do you think we should do? Give him one more year of CMD’s career?

    Has anybody considered that maybe McLellan is over rated as a coach? This is a guy that never won anything with a Shark team loaded with talent in its prime,and never won a cup.l think reality has settled in,time to move on when the coach starts blaming the players for his inabilities.

  76. GCW_69 says:

    Talbots over the glass penalty could not have been timed worse. It’s like he is on a mission to torpedo the Oilers season between subpar goaltending and bone head plays like that.

  77. Bryan says:

    The mistake was hiring the wrong Todd three years ago. Todd Nelson has been a proven winner everywhere he has coached and excels with young players. He was treated poorly by the Oilers and handled it with class. I continue to keep tabs on him and wish him well.

  78. jtblack says:

    Oilman99: The problem is this has been happening all season long close to half the time,and nothing has changed. Maybe an electric cattle prod at the gate is needed.

    Thats why I started the comments today with grading TMac and his staff an “F”.

    They have not done well in 1 coaching metric Not 1. ?? Somebody tell me they have?

    Motivating players?
    Systems?
    Special Teams?
    Roster Deployment?
    Adapting?
    Line Matching (freeing up McD)?

    TMacs answer to everything is “Throw 97 over the boards” Brilliiant! NOT

  79. Oilman99 says:

    OilClog: It’s the coaching #1 job to have his team ready to play. Who said he needs to give speeches? How about quality systems, better line combos, better use of his bench. Does he do those things? No.

    The problem is you need enough NHL quality players to have better line combos. Too many players on this team are over rated.

  80. Bag of Pucks says:

    Georges,

    Great posts today. You’re absolutely killing it.

  81. VOR says:

    Because I am busy writing the final part of my draft series I have been thinking a lot about Martina Opitz. She gave me several of the ideas I am going to present later today. Martina was also the first “generational” athlete I ever coached. She went on to have a fascinating life including insuring athletes and athletic performance.

    This summer Martina (under her married name Hellmann) will have held the World, World Chamionship and Olympic records in Discus for 30+ years. I have been spending my morning trying to figure out how I would have gone about coaching her to be prepared to compete.

    I just have no idea. I never saw Martina take a day off. Never. So having her head in the game never came up.

    Her German coaches had her technique refined to perfection. I timed her training to have her at peak performance at World’s and the Olympics and we visualized and rehearsed. But I never tried to motivate her and her German coaches had learned the hard way not to screw with Martina’s head. Motivation was Martina’s job. And she did it really well.

    37 years later, 800 plus athletes later, I can’t imagine wasting one minute of my time coaching anybody I had to motivate. But apparently you have to motivate NHL players to show up and earn their pay check. Wow that must make coaching in the NHL really stressful and more than a little demeaning.

    (I do find myself wondering about the mythology of farm boy hockey players. I have worked with a number of professional athletes in other sports and none of them needed to be motivated. Yet hockey players who supposedly have a culture of hard work, sacrifice and courage need to be motivated to be ready to play. Can you say spoiled rotten?)

    Imagine having to babysit 20 grown men with the emotional maturity of toddlers. (I may be being unfair to toddlers) Now do that 100 nights a year. And every time your parenting fails tens of thousands of fans call for you to be fired. NHL coaches earn their pay checks but it must corrode their souls.

    In case you are missing my point. For motivation to withstand the challenges of the real world it has to be intrinsic. It can’t be coached. The players either have it in them or they don’t. If they don’t you are fucked. I think the Oilers and their fans are, you guessed it, fucked. But blaming the coach is shooting arrows at the wrong target.

    The players need to look inside themselves and decide if they are grown men or helpless babies.

  82. Gret99zky says:

    Wait n’ See:

    The Oilers will miss out on Dahlin next year but will win the chance to draft Andrei Svechnikov.

    From Wikipedia: Andrei Igorevich Svechnikov is a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian.

    …Russian.

    What could go wrong?

  83. LMHF#1 says:

    VOR,

    It’s not motivation really. It’s giving each player and the team as a whole what they need to go out and be their best every day.

    Organized preparation. Individualized training and feedback. Putting people in position to succeed. Being ready to adapt. Being observant and present.

    Coaching doesn’t win a ton of games. It can lose nearly all of them. It’s there to set and maintain a baseline more than anything else.

    Having this group with a Coach who doesn’t know swagger, can’t adapt and doesn’t seem innovative in any way is insane. The 80s Oilers without Glen Sather behind the bench never would have become what they were.

  84. HenryDrix says:

    jtblack:
    “Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Was that his Quote from Game 2? 7? 11? 15? 16? 44? 63?

    The Oilers have allowed the 1st Goal on the 1st shot 13 Times.Probaly had “unacceptable starts” in 20 games.

    That my friend is in the Coach.Plain and Simple. If the Coach cant find 5 guys to start the game and NOT give up a goal, thats his issue.If he continually trots out his starting net minder Even if he allows the 1st ahot to go in Over and Over…. Hoe is he holding anyone accountable?

    Coaching.Coaching.Coaching.

    I am on board with axing the coach. Can’t believe I am saying that, what a freaking gong show. Maybe we should call ghostbusters cause this damn record has been playing for a decade plus.

  85. Oilman99 says:

    Georges: My short answer would be Sutter. That LAK team played with ridiculous intensity for a few years and won twice. Yes, Quick the first time, but not as much Quick the second time. I have no idea why he hasn’t been hired yet. You eliminate the winning coach variable from the overall equation and then see what else is needed beyond that to make the equation work. We made the mistake of hiring a not winning coach and then taking franchise altering steps on personnel when that coach didn’t win.

    Sutter is old school, the game has passed him by. The grinding game no longer works,speed is what every club ,including the Kings ,is looking for. Forget the dinasaurs,comb the AHL for the best up and coming talent like Colorado and Detroit did.

  86. OilClog says:

    The Oilers issues aren’t motivation.

    It’s systems, deployment, game management.

    It’s special teams, it’s being sucked dry of talent for more grind.

    It’s stubbornness to change.

    It’s playing preaseson style hockey in March.

    It’s going to battle with a teaspoon while the opposition has wave after wave of tanks.

    I expect a head coach to establish a culture of accountability, and making sure it’s always implemented. Not trotting out players that haven’t scored in 30 games on the 1st line night after night.

    They wake up unmotivated. That’s not being a helpless baby or anything like it, it’s being human.

  87. Bag of Pucks says:

    It’s odd as a fanbase that we spend so much time obsessed over offensive concerns and talent bleed (Hall, Eberle, Lucic, Pulij, etc.) when the team’s downturn this year is aggressively fueled by poor defensive play, leaky goaltending, and horrid special teams. The increase in GA is the core contributor in this year’s poorer Goal differential, primarily on special teams. In short, the offense is the least of their worries atm. That’s how bad this has gotten AGAIN.

    The much ballyhooed structure that MacLellan seemed to have implemented last season is going going GONE.

    Everyone is dissatisfied with the work Chiarelli has done to date with the F depth but almost everyone is unanimous that the D Corps is miles better than the D depth this GM inherited.

    So who’s to fault for the team playing poorly defensively and on special teams? Well, those are actually coach driven and structural elements of the game, as opposed to offensive play which whilst undoubtedly HC influenced retains more individual creativity. Connor and Leon are doing the best they can in those areas of the game where they’re not shackled by MacLellan’s system and deployment issues, but there’s too much to overcome defensively, on special teams, and between the pipes.

    #FireTheCoach

  88. JimmyV1965 says:

    The rot in this organization runs deep, very deep. The Oil Kings have the worst winning percentage of any team in the WHL and are coached by the son of a former Oiler. The Condors have the worst winning percentage in their division and are coached by someone who is never ever mentioned in the conversation for an NHL job and the Oilers have one of the worst teams in the NHL.

    Losing is the culture of this organization. It’s been that way for years and touches every level of this of this franchise. How do you even begin to fix the problem?

  89. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Last night’s game was another indication of (1) how important Adam Larsson is to this team and (2) how important it is to acquire a legit 1/2 puck moving right show D in the off-season.

    Half the Rangers defence had Ethan Bear level of experience and all they had to do was employ a 1-4, a variation of the trap, and the Oilers had zero ability to transition the puck and break it.

    Part of that must be coaching, yes, but a big part of that is personnel – Kris Russell was 1RD last night – can we expect that to lead to a decent transition game against any level of opposition?

    Larsson, Russell, Benning, Bear, Gryba – that is not a good enough right side – adding one piece either above Larsson or at least at Larsson’s level is priority number 1.

    Get used to it, there are too many other holes to fill.

  90. Bryan says:

    It’s much different competing in an indiviual sport than with a team. To say that all the men on a team are spoiled or immature is silly. Bill Belichick is one of the great motivators in sport history and he does it by putting players in a position to succeed rather than with motivational speeches. If elite level players know that they are being given every chance to be successful then they will perform near peak performance on most occasions. If they don’t feel like they the coach is making the proper moves to help them win then it becomes harder to compete at the level necessary for victory. That is simple human nature. Special teams are the greatest indicator of coaching competency and the oilers are sadly lacking in this area.

  91. jtblack says:

    Gret99zky:
    Wait n’ See:

    The Oilers will miss out on Dahlin next year but will win the chance to draft Andrei Svechnikov.

    From Wikipedia:Andrei Igorevich Svechnikov is a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian.

    …Russian.

    What could go wrong?

    He is also one who has a 17 Game Point streak, in which he has 33 Points!

    Not too shabby

  92. Bling says:

    The first goal last night was Lucic completely whiffing on an outlet. Not only did he whiff on it, he did a lazy one-handed spin-o-rama that allowed the Rangers to pick up the puck without any kind of resistance.

    Then, chaos ensued. McDavid was already turning on the jets and had to turn around. Russell was also moving forward, and couldn’t catch up with Kreider.

    The Oilers don’t have many good offensive wingers, but there are 8 guys who would have made a better play than Lucic in that scenario. The guy has absolutely no agility.

    I just don’t get McLellan. If he wants to die on this hill, fine, but it isn’t fair to drag the entire team through the mud. Lucic had 17 minutes of EV ice and once again did not do so much against a mediocre team. How many times do we have to watch that in the spirit of “we need to get him going.”

    Here’s another question: did Lucic win a single 50/50 puck in the offensive zone? No. Did he recover any pucks on the PP? No. He was frequently bumped off of loose pucks, though. He made an alarming number of blind passes, the vast majority of which led to turnovers. How many power moves did he make to the net? Zero.

  93. thehop says:

    Gret99zky:
    Wait n’ See:

    The Oilers will miss out on Dahlin next year but will win the chance to draft Andrei Svechnikov.

    From Wikipedia:Andrei Igorevich Svechnikov is a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian ice hockey winger.

    …a Russian.

    …Russian.

    What could go wrong?

    If the past is any indication….

    He will make the team out of camp.

    Mclellan will point out he needs to work on his 200ft game. Put him on the third and fourth line. He will struggle. Get traded to St Louis for a 4th round pick and a shitty dman. The Oilers will sign that Dman to a ridiculous contact and we will commiserate for years about how fucked up the Oilers are.

  94. Bag of Pucks says:

    Georges: My short answer would be Sutter. That LAK team played with ridiculous intensity for a few years and won twice. Yes, Quick the first time, but not as much Quick the second time. I have no idea why he hasn’t been hired yet. You eliminate the winning coach variable from the overall equation and then see what else is needed beyond that to make the equation work. We made the mistake of hiring a not winning coach and then taking franchise altering steps on personnel when that coach didn’t win.

    Tippet should get some strong consideration too. He’s like Gallant in LV in that he lost a power struggle to an internal analytics movement, despite being a very good coach. In other words, he’s on the sidelines now because of a change in philosophy not because he can’t do the job.

    Despite consistently having marginal talent, his team’s were very competitive. Imagine if he could have the impact here that Gallant has had in Vegas?

  95. thehop says:

    JimmyV1965:
    The rot in this organization runs deep, very deep. The Oil Kings have the worst winning percentage of any team in the WHL and are coached by the son of a former Oiler.The Condors have the worst winning percentage in their division and are coached by someone who is never ever mentioned in the conversation for an NHL job and the Oilers have one of the worst teams in the NHL.

    Losing is the culture of this organization. It’s been that way for years and touches every level of this of this franchise. How do you even begin to fix the problem?

    First you rename the team.

    The Edmonton Browns

    The name reflects the rich history of shit that the organization is. (Glory years notwithstanding)
    But let’s be honest, this team has been more bad than good and more terrible than great.

  96. Yeti says:

    Bling: I just don’t get McLellan. If he wants to die on this hill, fine, but it isn’t fair to drag the entire team through the mud. Lucic again had 17 minutes of EV ice and did not so much against a mediocre team. How many times do we have to watch that in the spirit of “we need to get him going.”

    One plausible explanation: TMac is saying very directly to Chia “this is what you gave me for a 1LW”, you can’t fire me to cover your own mistake.

  97. StixMalone says:

    OriginalPouzar: If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    And what is the system exactly? If it’s the same since last year why is it so difficult to execute? Surely the players must know it by now? …..

  98. VOR says:

    LMHF#1:
    VOR,

    It’s not motivation really. It’s giving each player and the team as a whole what they need to go out and be their best every day.

    Organized preparation. Individualized training and feedback. Putting people in position to succeed. Being ready to adapt. Being observant and present.

    Coaching doesn’t win a ton of games. It can lose nearly all of them. It’s there to set and maintain a baseline more than anything else.

    Having this group with a Coach who doesn’t know swagger, can’t adapt and doesn’t seem innovative in any way is insane. The 80s Oilers without Glen Sather behind the bench never would have become what they were.

    Last night they came out and didn’t give a shit. That wasn’t the first time this year. Anyone want to argue either point? I didn’t think so.

    This team isn’t giving their coach what Todd Nelson so brilliantly calls Maximal Discretionary Effort. Some nights they aren’t providing what Coach Wooden described as enough effort to justify hanging on to their roster spot. These effort levels can be coached but if they are imposed extrinsicly the effort level collapses in bad times.

    They sure as hell aren’t Mark Recching it.

    I am on record that I would fire the coaching staff. But I am not a fool. Their is enough evidence to know there are real changes needed to the players – giving up is not acceptable behaviour. But there also needs to be cultural and organizational changes from top to bottom. Let’s start with less dead wood and more worker bees.

    I am just opposed to the foolish idea, which is gaining followers, that a new coach will save us and take us to the promised land. Because like you I don’t think a coach wins games. We all lose some. But what happened here is a team checked out and that is a horrible tell and not something any coach can fix.

  99. JimmyV1965 says:

    I see a RHD as the most pressing need for this team next year. Not necessarily a PP QB, but a good defender who can skate and move the puck out of the dzone.

    I’m also going to add a backup goalie to this list. We need a backup who push Talbot and be relied upon if he falters. I’m not blaming Talbot for the loss last night, I didn’t even see the game, but if we start the season with Montoya as the backup, the GM is basically rolling the dice and hoping it all works out.

  100. --hudson-- says:

    Post-game from McLellan. He was clearly frustrated during this.

    Source video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Q1K_-FSX4
    ————————————————–
    A: full period we didn’t we didn’t engage at all in the first period we weren’t interested in physically being involved in the game winning races playing on the inside even stick bottles fifty-fifty stick bottles we weren’t interested not and they had their way and slowly got into it as the game went on but too late

    Q: would you see that as the coach I mean what do you do to get them going in the direction
    A: we’re barking we’re trying to change shift lengths up we’re trying to change a match we’re trying to do different things but we’re you know we were second shift into the game already and they had scored again so we had half a team that hadn’t even touched the ice it’s it’s you know there’s not much you can do that early in the game

    Q: the two many men at the end if you can just describing them everybody is
    A: there’s an align assigned and there’s one individual player that gets assigned the position for the goaltender and that individual left obviously light years before he should have

    Q: did it seem like maybe you were disjointed in that moment
    A: well we had a line we had a line that replaced the line and we had one extra guy jump on the ice and the goaltender was still in the crease that individual clearly knew who was going for the goalie yeah so there’s no disjointed there

    Q: sorry I wasn’t suggesting that you guys were disjointed on the bench I meant when you had the power play and you were looking for the tying goal you just I mean it just seems like he couldn’t get the puck down the ice
    A: well we couldn’t enter their zone they did a good job of just stacking the lineup and we had it in there and we just couldn’t keep keep it alive I think Leon stepped on the puck or stumbled in the corner and and they cleared it and that ate up a good 30-40 seconds of it so the the earlier power play was the better one for us we had chances hit the post and then this one obviously we cut short through stupidity

    Q: I don’t know if the first you know showing up late or not playing the first period has to do with a team that’s that’s just not in the race and not playing important games how do you get this team to focus down and button down you got 17 games to play here
    A: we’ve got to keep we’re gonna harp on things we’ve got to keep them in you know push them you know we can wave the magic wand we can pound on the desk we can do all we want they have to accept some individual responsibilities about being ready to play and being ready to go and and there’s not enough of them right now now I will say as Ryan mentioned we we have had some good starts we’ve had we have had some some good runs over the last two weeks I was I was happy with the way we played the way we responded you know there’s been moments in the game where it got away on us but tonight’s start was unacceptable

    Q: so what happens when you’re playing against a goalie like this who heart is hardly ever played are you your players not thinking okay so we got lucky tonight in lundqvist not play and we got this guy who hardly ever plays so we’re gonna jump all over this guy is that what you’re thinking is
    A: well that’s that’s what the plan is but obviously that didn’t come to fruition and their goaltender actually made some tremendous saves so the fact that somebody hasn’t played a lot doesn’t mean that the goaltender is any isn’t any good you know he came in with a – 15 to 18 pardon me I’m 918 save percentage and and played a good game so that part of it I see how you’re asking it that should be motivation to go out and go get a goaltender that doesn’t have a lot of experience we didn’t necessarily point to that we pointed to a young group of defenseman that didn’t have a lot of experience and and they got after Rd early in the game below the goal line way better than we got after theirs now do we got going later on in the game but we threw away too many minutes

    Q: (inaudible question about Bear)
    A: he’s played you know again the game sheet isn’t going to tell you the true story about his ability and skill and and what he did but I saw him in the offensive zone definitely dangerous he pump-faked a lot he created shooting opportunities for himself and and rebounds for others it’s a positive sign so far for him being up here

    Q: (inaudible question about New Jean Hopkins)
    A: Nuge you know got us a goal it’s hard to come back after an injury late in the season anytime in the season but as I said this morning his injuries prevented him from being real real active like you normally would when you’re when you’re injured so it’s going to take him a little time I thought he managed himself well he didn’t overextend his shifts and and he was effective

  101. Ryan says:

    VOR: Last night they came out and didn’t give a shit. That wasn’t the first time this year. Anyone want to argue either point? I didn’t think so.

    This team isn’t giving their coach what Todd Nelson so brilliantly calls Maximal Discretionary Effort. Some nights they aren’t providing what Coach Wooden described as enough effort to justify hanging on to their roster spot. These effort levels can be coached but if they are imposed extrinsicly the effort level collapses in bad times.

    They sure as hell aren’t Mark Recching it.

    I am on record that I would fire the coaching staff. But I am not a fool. Their is enough evidence to know there are real changes needed to the players – giving up is not acceptable behaviour. But there also needs to be cultural and organizational changes from top to bottom. Let’s start with less dead wood and more worker bees.

    I am just opposed to the foolish idea, which is gaining followers, that a new coach will save us and take us to the promised land. Because like you I don’t think a coach wins games. We all lose some. But what happened here is a team checked out and that is a horrible tell and not something any coach can fix.

    When a team is this bad, it’s not the coach. It’s especially not just the coach.

    That being said, I do agree that we need a new coaching staff for next year.

    I had always like Mclelllan. I feel bad for him as his the stench of the Oilers is hard to wash off. It ends coaching careers too.

    Lack of competition for roster spots could be part of the perceived current problem with player effort.

    I feel like the season came off the rails when Sekera came back.

  102. Derek says:

    Andy Dufresne: Katz is a blessing to Edmonton and to hockey in this City. Another FACT.

    I don’t keep up with the team or the blog near as much as I did prior to this trainwreck of a season so I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not.

    “On June 18, 2008, Daryl Katz received the final OK from the National Hockey League to purchase the Edmonton Oilers, and then on July 2, 2008, he was officially announced as the owner of the Edmonton Oilers during a Press Conference at Rexall Place, where he was presented with an Edmonton Oilers Jersey with the number “08” and his last name patched onto the back.”

    Since July 2, 2008 the record of the Edmonton Oilers hockey club is 299 Wins 382 Losses and 90 OTLs.

    Since Katz blessed the city of Edmonton their favorite franchise has lost 173 more games than they’ve won.

    The team would’ve been better off moving.

  103. JD_Wry says:

    In the interest of lightening the mood a little here, I’m going to suggest we hold a little DJ party. Pick a song, and send it out to your favorite Oiler coach, manager, or burgermeister.

    Since his arrogant stench can be traced all the way back to the beginning of the DoD, I’m going to send this one out to good ol Kevy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK4fJhbRL1g

    (wait for the chorus)

  104. anjinsan says:

    Imagine McDavid with Landeskog and Rantanen.

    Imagine a board game call ‘NHL GM’. You score dunce cap hat trick if trade the worst, contract the worst, and make your team big while reducing team speed the most.

  105. who says:

    Bling:
    The first goal last night was Lucic completely whiffing on an outlet. Not only did he whiff on it, he did a lazy one-handed spin-o-rama that allowed the Rangers to pick up the puck without any kind of resistance.

    Then, chaos ensued. McDavid was already turning on the jets and had to turn around. Russell was also moving forward, and couldn’t catch up with Kreider.

    The Oilers don’t have many good offensive wingers, but there are 8 guys who would have made a better play than Lucic in that scenario. The guy has absolutely no agility.

    I just don’t get McLellan. If he wants to die on this hill, fine, but it isn’t fair to drag the entire team through the mud. Lucic again had 17 minutes of EV ice and did not so much against a mediocre team. How many times do we have to watch that in the spirit of “we need to get him going.”

    Here’s another question: did Lucic win a single 50/50 puck in the offensive zone? No. Did he recover any pucks on the PP? No. He was frequently bumped off of loose pucks, though. He made an alarming number of blind passes, the vast majority of which led to turnovers. How many power moves did he make to the net? Zero.

    Noticed this too.
    Simple bank pass off the boards that he should have been able to pick up. He didn’t even come close. The man can’t turn. Most of the guys on my old timers team are more flexible.

  106. JimmyV1965 says:

    Gret99zky:
    Question:What the fuck IS the coach’s job?And what part of it is he doing well?

    This is a good question. I’m no coach, but from what I understand there’s really a limited amount of Xs and Os in hockey. Don’t most coaches employ the same three or four systems? Is it not simply a matter of getting players to execute the system?

    Why has Gallant shown with two different teams that he can get more out of his players than the sum of their parts. What is he doing that’s different? Players are not coached to leave someone alone in the slot. So why do we continually do it?

    I’m no coach, but it seems to me that if we can answer these questions, it goes a long way to solving the riddle.

    At this point I’m on board for firing the coach. Not because I know anything about the position, but simply because we really have nothing to lose. But maybe I’m wrong. Can someone tell me what the downside is if we fire the coach?

  107. Georges says:

    Here’s a breakdown of the number of years in coaching tenures from 2000-01 to 2017-18:

    1, 44
    2, 53
    3, 40
    4, 23
    5, 16
    6, 7
    7, 8
    8, 4
    9, 2
    10, 2
    15, 1

    And using 3 years as the cutoff:

    % of tenures

    1-3, 67
    4+, 33

    Regular season points %

    1-3, 52
    4+, 57

    % of seasons in playoffs

    1-3, 27
    4+, 55

    Average playoff wins per playoff appearance

    1-3, 4.4
    4+, 5.9

    Here are the stats for McLellan’s 3 years with the Oilers:

    Regular season point %

    50

    % of seasons in playoffs

    33

    Average playoff wins per playoff appearance

    7

  108. anduril says:

    Yeti: One plausible explanation: TMac is saying very directly to Chia “this is what you gave me for a 1LW”, you can’t fire me to cover your own mistake.

    Doubt that. First, then TMac should be fired for pulling that shit instead of doing what’s best for the team. Second, the better way of making that point is to put a 6 million dollar player in the press box or stapling him to the bench. More plausible, Chia is telling TMac he needs to play Lucic in top 6 and get him off his schneid, or it’s his or their collective asses on the line. Unfortunately, as plausible as that might be, it’s stubborn and stupid. The best management teams cut their losses quickly, preferably while they can still get a return, on something that hasn’t worked and will not work (see the Patriots).

  109. Georges says:

    Oilman99: Sutter is old school, the game has passed him by. The grinding game no longer works,speed is what every club ,including the Kings ,is looking for. Forget the dinasaurs,comb the AHL for the best up and coming talent like Colorado and Detroit did.

    Coaches are mostly unsuccessful. New coaches are especially unsuccessful.

    Last year, Bednar coached the worst season of any coach since 2000-01. Somehow, Sakic stuck with him and he has the team in the playoff hunt.

    Jeff Blashill is 3 seasons in with DET. His overall P% is 51. The team is going to be out of the playoffs for the second year in a row. Based on history, he could be out of a job in the off-season. If so, the odds are not that good for him getting another gig.

    The “dinasaur” has made 3 Cup Finals and won twice. I’m speculating he knows a bit more about winning at the NHL level than a “talent” who has never coached at the NHL level.

    As for the game has passed him by, speed, grinding game… you could be right. I’m not basing the Sutter preference on anything complicated. I like his media avails on YouTube. I like a 57 CF%. I like the relentless style his winning LAK teams played. And I’d like to see what a winning coach who knows how to take the last step as well as the little steps that come before can do with a superstar.

  110. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    The coach has many duties and responsibilities! His number one responsibility as the leader of the team is to assure the team is properly prepared and MOTIVATED!

    The players answer to the coach. No true leader blames his subordinates. If there is or was a problem it is his job to assure that the problem is rectified!

  111. Woogie63 says:

    Georges: Hmm… I guess people don’t hang on my every word. How sad and humbling.

    Here’s what I posted on Feb. 11:

    As for replacements for the HC, there are two categories of options: coaches who’ve made the Finals and coaches who haven’t.

    20 coaches have made the Finals since the league expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01. 8 of them have multiple appearances. They account for 20 of the 32 Finals spots over that time frame.

    Here’s a list of who is or could be available in the off-season:

    Coach, Finals Appearances (* means Cup Winner)

    Quenneville, 3*
    Sutter, 3*
    Vigneault, 2
    Maurice, 1
    Bylsma, 1*
    MacTavish, 1
    Therrien, 1
    Hartley, 1*
    Tortorella, 1*
    Cooper, 1

    Of the coaches who haven’t made the Finals, you can go with another McLellan type, veteran coach without a Finals appearance. We’d probably want someone with some track record of turnarounds. You’re hoping for a Quenneville or a Sutter story here, guys who had to wait a long time to break through to the Finals and the Cup. These guys are or might be available in the off season.

    Dave Tippett
    Bruce Boudreau
    Barry Trotz
    Jacques Martin (won the Cup twice as an assistant with PIT)

    It’s trickier to find signal on who may be able to break through among the rest. New coaches have a high rate of failure. I don’t think PC can go that route 3 years in. What he might want to consider are coaches who have 1) had a chance before but not much of one, 2) have some playoff experience, 3) a reasonable regular season record, and 4) they’ve been unable to find their way back to the HC ranks. I’m basing this on Bruce Cassidy and Mike Sullivan. Maybe there’s some drive to win and prove themselves after their initial failure. And they’ve had time to learn from whatever went wrong the first time.

    Here are some other names to consider:

    Patrick Roy
    Jim Playfair
    Cory Clouston
    Craig Berube
    Dale Hunter
    Adam Oates
    Dave Cameron
    Mike Johnston
    Guy Carbonneau
    Tony Granato

    I’ll also throw Guy Boucher in there for the run with OTT from last season and the fact he was one game away from the Finals with TBL in his first season coaching. He might be available.

    Some names here may be more ridiculous than others. And some names won’t be available. But, as you can see, it’s a big list.

    The current Oiler’s coaches cost Katz about $5M. The new Stanley Cup winning coaching team will cost about the same. Do you really think spending $10M is at the top of the problem list.

  112. Wilde says:

    Greetings friends.

    McDavid made on of the best plays I’ve ever seen last night, again.

    Anyways.

    ————————————————————-

    2018 tank war by projected % of top 3 pick / / current standing by pts %

    48.1% – 0.390 – ARI
    36.2% – 0.392 – BUF
    31.2% – 0.422 – OTT
    28.6% – 0.438 – VAN
    25.9% – 0.446 – EDM
    23.4% – 0.469 – MTL
    20.9% – 0.477 – DET
    18.5% – 0.492 – CHI
    17.1% – 0.500 – NYI/NYR <– Reminder that Garth Snow is a bottom 5 NHL GM

    ————————————————————

    I would post Dom L's season totals from his model alongside this, but I feel that's a little rude given the paywall. I'll share Edmonton's projection though: there are four teams below us, with our total being 76-77 points.

    Again, Buffalo can't be caught here. Arizona's the same, and Vancouver, although we've bridged the gap, is in the same company with them in terms of team quality, I feel.

    Montreal earned a point last night, and from my viewing actually looked okay against a very scary Bruins team that comes in waves.

    Both New York teams are now sitting beside eachother, in a perverse and hilarious outcome of two neighbouring teams trying to do two oppposing things. I was impressed with Alain Vigneault's adaptation last night, as I am usually. He's in the second cluster of who I'd like the Oilers to hire, behind Quenneville and Nelson.

  113. Woogie63 says:

    JimmyV1965:
    The rot in this organization runs deep, very deep. The Oil Kings have the worst winning percentage of any team in the WHL and are coached by the son of a former Oiler.The Condors have the worst winning percentage in their division and are coached by someone who is never ever mentioned in the conversation for an NHL job and the Oilers have one of the worst teams in the NHL.

    Losing is the culture of this organization. It’s been that way for years and touches every level of this of this franchise. How do you even begin to fix the problem?

    Don’t let them buy the Eskies

  114. JD_Wry says:

    Bob says same lines today in practice.

  115. SwedishPoster says:

    The coach has hit a massive wall. He’s been talking about not having a clue what to do about improving special teams since november, “we’ve tried everything”. Now he talks about magic wands in regards to the team not being ready to start the games. Yeah, players have to own it as well but if the players fail to execute over and over the coach has messed up. He isn’t getting through and openly admits that he’s out of ideas how to. He’s pretty much saying to Chia and Bobby Nicks “Fire me” and they’re saying “Not so fast. That might look bad on us”.

    The failed season is not all on him, certainly not, but I just don’t see the players rallying behind him at this point.

    The whole Lucic debacle and how it’s been handled has killed his credibility, I doubt he’s got last say there though, smells upper management meddling all the way to scandinavia, but he’s the guy behind the bench so fair or not it falls on him. You can’t just go around and tell reporters that different players have different measuring sticks, every player knows that’s how it works in reality, in a locker room there are no equals no matter how many accountability cliches the coaches feed us, but I doubt saying it out loud sits all that well in the room.

  116. Andy Dufresne says:

    Dustylegnd: I shudder to think what that will cost us with Chia at the helm…..Drai, Puljujärvi and this years 1st round pick, or will he need a sweetener……..

    Where oh where is our Stevie Y?

    One might conclude that the more confidence that Chia has that his job is secure, the LESS likely it is that he feels compelled by fear to make big bold moves.

  117. LMHF#1 says:

    VOR,

    Clarified. Gotcha.

    I don’t think it solves all, or even most, but it is a must.

  118. Wilde says:

    I think those attempting to separate having ‘offensive’ talent from giving up goals should consider those two things are related. Stacked forward teams retain possession and give up less goals.

    It takes a lot of shots and chances to eventually get a goal, and it takes a lot of possession to get those shots and chances. The amount of time you retain the puck in order to generate that, is also time that you can’t be scored on.

    I should add that I do agree with the posters tying the defensive breakdowns to poor coaching, and am in full support of bringing in new staff in the fall.

  119. Andy Dufresne says:

    Georges:
    VOR asked a question yesterday that I responded to late last night. Reposting as the information is on topic to the discussion this morning.

    “Which brings me to my question how bad is Todd Mcllelan relative to the entire other 30 head coaches in the NHL? How are we making that assessment?”

    Let’s assess McLellan by his record.

    The League expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01. There have been 566 coaching seasons since then to 2016-17.

    Coaches were not retained for another season, i.e., fired, in about 30% of the cases.

    Getting to the playoffs is very important for job security.

    If a coach took his team to the playoffs, he had a 9% chance of being fired.

    If he failed to take his team to the playoffs, he had a 49% chance of being fired.

    And, if a coach failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season, like McLellan will do this year, he had a 64% chance of being fired.

    There have been 15 times where a coach has failed to take his team to the playoffs in his 3rd season but was retained for at least another season.

    Of those 15 cases, in only one instance did the coach manage to later take his team to the Finals: Paul Maurice made the Finals in his 7th season with HAR/CAR. They lost 4-1 to the Wings in 2001-02. Some of the 15 were kept on because they had won the Cup or made the Finals with the team in their first 2 seasons. So they were given more rope. It didn’t pay off for the teams. Not one of those 15 managed to guide their team to a later Cup win.

    Maurice can potentially repeat what he did with CAR this season with WPG. This will be his 5th season with the club and the team has missed the playoffs the past 2 seasons. They were swept in the first round 3 years ago. The Jets are a model of organizational stability and we’ll see if that finally pays off in playoff wins for them this year. Maurice seems to have cornered the market on patient teams.

    If the Oilers say they want to win the Cup and they decide to retain McLellan, they’ll be betting on something happening that hasn’t happened in the past 16 seasons. They’ll be saying one thing and doing another.

    Coaches succeed early. If they don’t succeed early, they don’t succeed later. They simply run out of time to build relationships, foundations, belief systems, whatever it is they’re trying to do. The League reacts to results in a much simpler feedback cycle than the one that exists between player and coach.

    In McLellan’s case, he didn’t succeed early. And the team was revamped. Then he didn’t get the revamped team to the Finals. Now he’s not even getting the pre-season WC favorite to the playoffs. He’s instead brought them back to where they were when he started with the club, giving up a horrendous number of goals, playing confused, losing games.

    So what do you think we should do? Give him one more year of CMD’s career?

    Damn good post. Thank you.

  120. Georges says:

    Bag of Pucks: Tippet should get some strong consideration too. He’s like Gallant in LV in that he lost a power struggle to an internal analytics movement, despite being a very good coach. In other words, he’s on the sidelines now because of a change in philosophy not because he can’t do the job.

    Despite consistently having marginal talent, his team’s were very competitive. Imagine if he could have the impact here that Gallant has had in Vegas?

    Yeah, my Sutter pick was mostly personal. But also a nod to what the data show re some coaches/teams being more successful than others. I like that Sutter would bring clarity. And he could be motivated again after having been booted from LAK. Tippett still has something left to do. But he may be better with younger guys or getting more out of his roster. Not sure.

  121. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree.

    If you are talking about the team being ready to employ the systems of the coach and execute them the, yes, I agree – its the coaches job to ensure the players are know the systems and are ready to execute them.

    As far as “being ready to play”, their commitment to effort, their “give a fuck level”, their motivation to start the game – hell, no, that’s not the coaches job.This isn’t Friday Night Lights, the coach shouldn’t need to pump the team up with a motivational speech.Its on the players themselves to be ready to play the game, each and every night.

    +1

  122. frjohnk says:

    Wilde: 2018 tank war by projected % of top 3 pick / / current standing by pts %

    48.1% – 0.390 – ARI
    36.2% – 0.392 – BUF
    31.2% – 0.422 – OTT
    28.6% – 0.438 – VAN
    25.9% – 0.446 – EDM
    23.4% – 0.469 – MTL
    20.9% – 0.477 – DET
    18.5% – 0.492 – CHI
    17.1% – 0.500 – NYI/NYR

    Thanks for that.

    Whats interesting is that most fans could understand a season in which we miss the playoffs by just a few points like Tampa Bay last year. A bit of a reload and better health and off to the races the next year. But the fact that we are closer to 31st than a playoff berth and we are now in our second decade of darkness means that the knives are out. And rightfully so.

    The scary thing is that if the salary cap does not increase as much as we need it too ( lets say it only goes from $75M to $78M compared to the highest forecast $75M to $82M) this team may have to sell off one or two assets for cheaper, lesser players.

    RNH for a player/prospects on ELC
    Klefbom for a player/prospect on ELC

    These two moves would save the Oilers about $8M but it also downgrades the overall skill for the team and pushes the timeline for compelting further down the road. But it also may open up enough cap room to bring in a winger for McDavid.

    Most fans may have to accept the idea that next year could be another retool/rebuild year again.

    Id love to be wrong here, but as it stands, the stairs leading out of the basement are missing a few rungs, the lights are off and the door is locked.

  123. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar: Moving the goal posts.

    I never said the coach is doing a good job.I never said the coach hasn’t made and isn’t making mistakes.

    I never said the coach shouldn’t be replaced.

    I was responding to your point on the coach “having the team ready to play” – the commitment and effort level of the players – its not on the coach to give a speech before every game so the players are ready to give full effort from the opening faceoff as you implied in your post.

    +1 again

  124. SwedishPoster says:

    VOR,

    I think there has to be a proper clean out all through management before we’ll see any kind of consistent success. There’s enough talent on the team that they will have moments of success either way but for the Oilers to be any kind of yearly powerhouse they probably have to clear the upper deck completely.

    The org is mired in arrogance and people who think they are a lot smarter than they actually are. Which is a great way to look extremly foolish in a competitive business. You need to be confident in your abilities but you also have to realise that you’re not always going to be the smartest person in the room, you’re also unlikely to have the smartest people working for you a lot of the time. I’d argue that it’s more important understand that fact than it is to actually BE the smartest guy in the room. Because if you get that part down you will be much trickier to outsmart and can start looking for weaknesses in both your opponent and yourself.

    Ok, that went a little too much Sun Tzu at the end, so much that I read it to myself in a chinese accent. Sorry about that but you get what I’m trying to say I hope.

  125. Andy Dufresne says:

    Brantford Boy:
    Perhaps not exactly the same, but the 4 goals Nashville scored and last nights 1st goal all seemed to have the common them, cross seam pass from the slot, bang, goal against… I suspect the video room for our opponents see something ‘our coach’ doesn’t… I think the assistants need to change and I’d like to see some ‘actual’ assistant coaches (usually good ex-players) behind the bench… yes Jim Johnson played…

    Examples:
    https://www.nhl.com/islanders/team/coaching-staff
    https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/coaching-staff

    Talbot when on top of his game is an above average first shot stopper. He tracks the puck well and plays the angles well.

    Talbot is below average at moving, having to scramble, tracking the puck after stopping the initial shot, and stick handling.

    Goalie is THE most important position on the team. (Like a quarterback) You have to design your systems play aroung the Goaltenders strengths and Weaknesses. Talbots style lends itself to systems akin to Rickis Box Defense systems.

    Grant Fuhr had weaknesses….but his strengths played into the teams systems. Fuhr let in his fair share of bad goals ( can you say “5 HOLE”) but he NEVER let a bad goal affect him. Right goalie for a team that is capable of outscoring its opponents 7-6.

    I played golf at the same golf course as Fuhr for years. He always went from the 4th green directly to the 6th tee box (wink wink nudge nudge)

  126. Bling says:

    SwedishPoster:
    The coach has hit a massive wall. He’s been talking about not having a clue what to do about improving special teams since november, “we’ve tried everything”. Now he talks about magic wands in regards to the team not being ready to start the games. Yeah, players have to own it as well but if the players fail to execute over and over the coach has messed up. He isn’t getting through and openly admits that he’s out of ideas how to. He’s pretty much saying to Chia and Bobby Nicks “Fire me” and they’re saying “Not so fast. That might look bad on us”.

    The failed season is not all on him, certainly not, but I just don’t see the players rallying behind him at this point.

    The whole Lucic debacle and how it’s been handled has killed his credibility, I doubt he’s got last say there though, smells upper management meddling all the way to scandinavia, but he’s the guy behind the bench so fair or not it falls on him. You can’t just go around and tell reporters that different players have different measuring sticks, every player knows that’s how it works in reality, in a locker room there are no equals no matter how many accountability cliches the coaches feed us, but I doubt saying it out loud sits all that well in the room.

    I can’t recall a situation where a player has been so protected with respect to accountability from the organization and criticism from the media.

    There are players (see Taylor Hall, Jeff Petry and others) who were smeared for the heinous crime of being good (great) at the game of hockey and having value contracts.

    But if you give the puck away, lose every 50/50 battle, make blind passes, and follow it up with a “go get ’em, boys” and a few ass pats, well hell, that’s character, that’s culture, that’s leadership, and guys like Mark Spector will write an article about your bones being heavy but your heart being pure.

  127. Georges says:

    Woogie63: The current Oiler’s coaches cost Katz about $5M.The new Stanley Cup winning coaching team will cost about the same.Do you really think spending $10M is at the top of the problem list.

    You’re right. It’s important to walk a mile in another man’s shoes. In this case, that mile could possibly be managed by walking from one end of Katz’s LA mansion to the other end. It’s apparently the most expensive property in the city, At the end of that walk, I let out a sigh and wonder how I can possibly come up with that $10M. Then I have a thought. Tired of walking, I get on the hoverboard and float into the Amazon rain forest I had installed in the back yard. I find the grove of magical money trees. My special place. I float up and pluck 10 $1M apples. And my problems are solved.

    Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

  128. Gayfish says:

    JimmyV1965: and Os

    I’d say there is only a limited number of xs and os if you aren’t innovative. Majority of coaches aren’t because of the success driven nature of sport. You simply use old tactics in arock paper scissors manner. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with this method, and it can work well, but it may not be the best option.

    For example, many football coaches still try to scheme the passing game around reading the defensive backs, and forcing them into unwinnable decisions. While that can work, it requires a lot of guesswork (coverage). Newer strategies focus on timing routes and seeing what is there. This allows for the offense to drive success independent of defensive strategy. Akin to setting blocking rules on the offensive line, and adapting based on what the defense gives you rather that drawing up completely different ideas for various fronts.

    I love watching the Patriots because Belichick is an innovator, and might not even have the same scheme week to week. I think he must have conceptual rules, which allow him to alter his gameplan so quickly, but I haven’t figured them out yet. I would love a coach like that, but I’m not sure if he’s out there. At the very least I would like to see a coach who line matches, and uses dump and chase as a means of opening up the neutral zone, rather than the go to option.

    I agree with VOR that players should be intrinsically motivated, but I think the culture created by coach and GM is also a major factor. There has to be a genuine belief in the systems and direction. If there are huge concerns about the running of the team, it saps the life from a team. I don’t think however that a pre game speech, or curfew are how you get a team ready to play night in, night out. They can be useful tools is used incredibly sparingly though (think SCF).

  129. thehop says:

    Just finished watching the best game of hockey I’ve seen all year.

    Leduc vs Devon. Atom 3.

    Overtime. Shootout. 6th round winner.

    Who needs the Oilers or the NHL for that matter when you have this.

  130. HT Joe says:

    frjohnk: These two moves would save the Oilers about $8M but it also downgrades the overall skill for the team and pushes the timeline for compelting further down the road. But it also may open up enough cap room to bring in a winger for McDavid.
    Most fans may have to accept the idea that next year could be another retool/rebuild year again.
    Id love to be wrong here, but as it stands, the stairs leading out of the basement are missing a few rungs, the lights are off and the door is locked.

    Next year, Lucic, Sekera, and Russel will each be a year older (and likely slower), and McDavid’s cap hit climbs by ~$9M while Nurse should expect a big payday (I expect a long term contract, but a cap increase of ~$4M to $5M). Barring a replacement of both coaching staff and GM (not happening based on the verbal), I fully expect next season to be materially worse than this season. After next season, the term “rebuild” will become the only way to describe a path forward for the team.

  131. Andy Dufresne says:

    VOR: Last night they came out and didn’t give a shit. That wasn’t the first time this year. Anyone want to argue either point? I didn’t think so.

    This team isn’t giving their coach what Todd Nelson so brilliantly calls Maximal Discretionary Effort. Some nights they aren’t providing what Coach Wooden described as enough effort to justify hanging on to their roster spot. These effort levels can be coached but if they are imposed extrinsicly the effort level collapses in bad times.

    They sure as hell aren’t Mark Recching it.

    I am on record that I would fire the coaching staff. But I am not a fool. Their is enough evidence to know there are real changes needed to the players – giving up is not acceptable behaviour. But there also needs to be cultural and organizational changes from top to bottom. Let’s start with less dead wood and more worker bees.

    I am just opposed to the foolish idea, which is gaining followers, that a new coach will save us and take us to the promised land. Because like you I don’t think a coach wins games. We all lose some. But what happened here is a team checked out and that is a horrible tell and not something any coach can fix.

    +1 Well said. Thank You.

  132. HT Joe says:

    Georges: You’re right. It’s important to walk a mile in another man’s shoes. In this case, that mile could possibly be managed by walking from one end of Katz’s LA mansion to the other end. It’s apparently the most expensive property in the city,At the end of that walk, I let out a sigh and wonder how I can possibly come up with that $10M. Then I have a thought. Tired of walking, I get on the hoverboard and float into the Amazon rain forest I had installed in the back yard. I find the grove of magical money trees. My special place. I float up and pluck 10 $1M apples. And my problems are solved.

    Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

    Thank you for this perfect post… this is the first Oilers-related smile I’ve enjoyed all day! Have a wonderful day!!

  133. jtblack says:

    thehop:
    Just finished watching the best game of hockey I’ve seen all year.

    Leduc vs Devon. Atom 3.

    Overtime. Shootout. 6th round winner.

    Who needs the Oilers or the NHL for that matter when you have this.

    I watched a Junior B game last night. Swore I was watching the Oilers.

  134. --hudson-- says:

    I agree with VOR that the motivation is not provided by the coach, it has to come from within the players. Then there is the difference between motivation and discipline. Motivation is short term (what inspires you to start a new habit), but discipline is what maintains a habit after the motivation wanes.

    A coach can break down the other team, devise a game plan and communicate it to the players. The players have to take care of their bodies, ingest the plan, and be ready to perform (no late nights, proper rest and nutrition, etc.).

    So either party can hold a hand in not being ready to start the game. You know the coaches have let the players down when you see effort without results. You know the players are letting you down when not even the effort is there.

    ————
    When McLellan first got here he talked about establishing boundaries, letting players know what is acceptable versus what is not acceptable. He spoke about keeping shifts down to 45 seconds or less. How does he reconcile that boundary with his deployment last night?
    http://www.nhl.com/stats/shiftcharts?id=2017021007

    To close out the game he has Leon Draisatl and McDavid out for a 4 minute shift! They are the franchise, but it’s insane to give that amount of time to any player. 2-1/2 minutes to Lucic. Are there hockey players on this planet that can play at a high level for that amount of time?

    It reminds me of the way the Canadian women’s hockey coach ran 2 lines for 4 on 4 OT.

  135. Andy Dufresne says:

    JimmyV1965:
    I see a RHD as the most pressing need for this team next year. Not necessarily a PP QB, but a good defender who can skate and move the puck out of the dzone.

    I’m also going to add a backup goalie to this list. We need a backup who push Talbot and be relied upon if he falters. I’m not blaming Talbot for the loss last night, I didn’t even see the game, but if we start the season with Montoya as the backup, the GM is basically rolling the dice and hoping it all works out.

    x 100,000,000.4

  136. thehop says:

    jtblack: I watched a Junior B game last night.Swore I was watching the Oilers.

    Hahahaha

    I had the pleasure of playing a year in Junior B. The Oilers are a bushleague NHL team but not Junior B bushleague.

  137. Dicky94 says:

    JD_Wry,

    TMac going down with the ship.

  138. Andy Dufresne says:

    pts2pndr,

    No true leader blames his subordinates.

    Have you MET Hitler
    Have you MET Trump
    Have you MET Nixon

    ……oh sorry….I just noticed the word “true”…..my bad …..carry on…..

  139. jtblack says:

    thehop: Hahahaha

    I had the pleasure of playing a year in Junior B. The Oilers are a bushleague NHL team but not Junior B bushleague.

    Both Junior B teams had some of the same Oiler breakout systems…..

    “Circle back, throw Grenade to winger …”

    “Instead of passing puck to teammate, skate up the wall until you run out of room. Turn puck over. Scramble back and join the chaos you just caused”

  140. Andy Dufresne says:

    JimmyV1965: This is a good question. I’m no coach, but from what I understand there’s really a limited amount of Xs and Os in hockey. Don’t most coaches employ the same three or four systems? Is it not simply a matter of getting players to execute the system?

    Why has Gallant shown with two different teams that he can get more out of his players than the sum of their parts. What is he doing that’s different? Players are not coached to leave someone alone in the slot.So why do we continually do it?

    I’m no coach, but it seems to me that if we can answer these questions, it goes a long way to solving the riddle.

    At this point I’m on board for firing the coach. Not because I know anything about the position, but simply because we really have nothing to lose.But maybe I’m wrong. Can someone tell me what the downside is if we fire the coach?

    Im not sure about this but….besides the debate about what makes a good coach…..there is a narrative that says an organization develops a reputation. If you have a rotating door for coaches the good ones no longer view your organization as a prefered destination. You also develop a reputation among players that the org does not stand up for its coaches and this empowers (for lack of a better word) players to become coach killers.

    It may be a weak narrative….but we have hired and fired an obscene number of coaches here in the last 10 years.

  141. godot10 says:

    Oilman99: Has anybody considered that maybe McLellan is over rated as a coach?

    I am deeply wounded by this statement. It is like a denial of my existence.

    #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach

  142. Andy Dufresne says:

    Wilde:
    Greetings friends.

    McDavid made on of the best plays I’ve ever seen last night, again.

    Anyways.

    ————————————————————-

    2018 tank war by projected % of top 3 pick / / current standing by pts %

    48.1% – 0.390 – ARI
    36.2% – 0.392 – BUF
    31.2% – 0.422 – OTT
    28.6% – 0.438 – VAN
    25.9% – 0.446 – EDM
    23.4% – 0.469 – MTL
    20.9% – 0.477 – DET
    18.5% – 0.492 – CHI
    17.1% – 0.500 – NYI/NYR <– Reminder that Garth Snow is a bottom 5 NHL GM

    ————————————————————

    I would post Dom L’s season totals from his model alongside this, but I feel that’s a little rude given the paywall. I’ll share Edmonton’s projection though: there are four teams below us, with our total being 76-77 points.

    Again, Buffalo can’t be caught here. Arizona’s the same, and Vancouver, although we’ve bridged the gap, is in the same company with them in terms of team quality, I feel.

    Montreal earned a point last night, and from my viewing actually looked okay against a very scary Bruins team that comes in waves.

    Both New York teams are now sitting beside eachother, in a perverse and hilarious outcome of two neighbouring teams trying to do two oppposing things. I was impressed with Alain Vigneault’s adaptation last night, as I am usually. He’s in the second cluster of who I’d like the Oilers to hire, behind Quenneville and Nelson.

    Good Post . Thank you for the Update.

    Its official then Jordan Eberle has killed Snows career.

    Chia is a genius. He was pissed about the Reinhart thing…so he sent the King of Long Island a poison pill……Evil Genius….

  143. Wilde says:

    JimmyV1965:
    The rot in this organization runs deep, very deep. The Oil Kings have the worst winning percentage of any team in the WHL and are coached by the son of a former Oiler.The Condors have the worst winning percentage in their division and are coached by someone who is never ever mentioned in the conversation for an NHL job and the Oilers have one of the worst teams in the NHL.

    Losing is the culture of this organization. It’s been that way for years and touches every level of this of this franchise. How do you even begin to fix the problem?

    I’ve been thinking about how to attack the Bakersfield problem for awhile, and I’ve landed at firing the HC, GM, and turning over (almost) the entire forward group.

    The reason for needing a new HC should be fairly obvious, but I’ll put the short of it here for those that don’t care about the AHL: Gerry Fleming doesn’t deploy for development, and doesn’t succeed in other areas in spite of it. The new mandate is to win. You don’t need to have 25+ year olds eating up all the icetime to win. The best NHL teams have winning clubs in the AHL, how can that be, shouldn’t the talent pool dictate the opposite effect?

    For the new HC, I think the answer is a stop-gap of plucking a guy from another AHL team that they’ve recently fallen out of favour with, or have an expiring contract. The new GM can then start their search for ‘their guy’.

    My early-list includes Mike Velucci, Troy Mann, Mike Stothers.

    Now, onto the forward group. Here are the regular forwards in that I would want replaced, by age, pts/gp.

    Ryan Hamilton, 32, 0.512 – The Captain, I know. You know what production other teams get from their ultra-veteran presences? 0.900+ points per game. If you’re gonna be the veteran leader on this team, you better be crush the AHL. Lead by example, and carry your rookie linemates.

    Brad Malone, 28, 0.578 – Same deal. Our Quad A’s our other team’s roster fillers.

    Mitch Callahan, 26, 0.200 – Below replacement level.

    Zach O’Brien, 25, 0.444 – Better, but not good enough.

    Grayson Downing, 25, 0.500 – Missed my pre-season projection for him by a lot.

    Patrick Russell, 24, 0.327 – Did anyone know this guy was born in Denmark? Anyways we’re getting into the age range now of players that may not be below replacement level, but are in the age range of where you can find some gems to form the new, high scoring veteran cluster of the future of this team.

    Braden Christoffer, 23, 0.327 – See above, except he was born in Alberta. Bill Scott is a joke.

    Joe Gambardella : 23, 0.353 – See above.

    Kyle Platzer: 22, 0.400 – Would normally make the cutoff, but I have too many players coming in, as you’ll see in future posts.

  144. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    VOR,

    Curious who you see as a suitable candidate, or group of candidates for both the GM and HC positions? Or even assistant coaches/scouts if you, like me, prefer to gnaw first at the edges before ousting the core management positions.

  145. frjohnk says:

    HT Joe: Next year, Lucic, Sekera, and Russel will each be a year older (and likely slower), and McDavid’s cap hit climbs by ~$9M while Nurse should expect a big payday (I expect a long term contract, but a cap increase of ~$4M to $5M).Barring a replacement of both coaching staff and GM (not happening based on the verbal), I fully expect next season to be materially worse than this season.After next season, the term “rebuild” will become the only way to describe a path forward for the team.

    Up to 20% of a teams roster is changed over year to year, but for the fun of it I went to cap friendly and plugged in
    Nurse at $5M
    Strome at $3M
    And put $1M ( for ease of this exercise) for each of Benning, Cammy, Cag, Sleppy, AV2,
    brought up Gryba as 8th Dman for $950k and Brad Malone as last forward at $650k.

    The Oilers have a cap hit of $76.1 M. Plus they have bonuses of $2.5M to fit in as well.

    So with a salary cap of $78M, that team would not be able to add to the roster from this year, they are actually downgraded from the start of the year when the biggest downgrade is Malone in for Maroon.

    It might not be popular but maybe the proper thing to do is to trade Nuge for a player on a ELC and a prospect and push the rebuild back a couple of years. By that time, the salary cap has increased enough in which the Oilers can add a good piece, some of the bad contracts have mostly run their course and maybe a few of the young group of players (Yamamoto, Benson, etc) are ready to make an impact for us while still cheap. That would be the time for us to compete.

  146. Gayfish says:

    Wilde:
    Greetings friends.

    McDavid made on of the best plays I’ve ever seen last night, again.

    Anyways.

    ————————————————————-

    2018 tank war by projected % of top 3 pick / / current standing by pts %

    48.1% – 0.390 – ARI
    36.2% – 0.392 – BUF
    31.2% – 0.422 – OTT
    28.6% – 0.438 – VAN
    25.9% – 0.446 – EDM
    23.4% – 0.469 – MTL
    20.9% – 0.477 – DET
    18.5% – 0.492 – CHI
    17.1% – 0.500 – NYI/NYR <– Reminder that Garth Snow is a bottom 5 NHL GM

    ————————————————————

    I would post Dom L’s season totals from his model alongside this, but I feel that’s a little rude given the paywall. I’ll share Edmonton’s projection though: there are four teams below us, with our total being 76-77 points.

    Again, Buffalo can’t be caught here. Arizona’s the same, and Vancouver, although we’ve bridged the gap, is in the same company with them in terms of team quality, I feel.

    Montreal earned a point last night, and from my viewing actually looked okay against a very scary Bruins team that comes in waves.

    Both New York teams are now sitting beside eachother, in a perverse and hilarious outcome of two neighbouring teams trying to do two oppposing things. I was impressed with Alain Vigneault’s adaptation last night, as I am usually. He’s in the second cluster of who I’d like the Oilers to hire, behind Quenneville and Nelson.

    As much as I think Vigneault looks like a dink, I sort of think he might be a good fit. I’ll admit to not really seeing him much since he left vancouver, but he was the guy who popularized having a 3/4 line that gets thrown to the wolves to open up cherry minutes for the top line. At this point, I don’t see us accumulating enough talent to run 3C, so his method might be the next best option. If you can line match well enough to get McDavid some clean air, you may well be in business. I’m not sure if this organization can find the Horcoff types to make something like that swim though. I suppose nuge fits the bill, but he (or his replacement) is needed in the top six to load it up.

  147. thehop says:

    jtblack,

    So true.

  148. Gret99zky says:

    Seems to me the best way to un-motiviate those that follow is to be a shitty leader.

    It sure looks to me that this team has quit on this coach.

    TMc stopped believing in them during training camp and it continues through nearly every post-game scrum.

    McDavid may well win the Art Ross/Hart/Ted Lindsay again this year, but he sure doesn’t look like he’s doing it for this coach. As a matter of fact, he looks miserable under TMc.

    Someone posted on Twitter the other day: Bobby Orr may be the only man that can save this franchise.

  149. Gret99zky says:

    jtblack: He is also one who has a 17 Game Point streak, in which he has 33 Points!

    Not too shabby

    LOL.

    Yeah, you may just want to go ahead and do some research on how well Russian born players have fared in this organization.

  150. Mike says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I CALL BULLSHIT!!!! A BILLIONAIRE WHO TAKES THE CITYS MONEY FOR A RINK NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO. YEAH YOUR RIGHT , HES MY HERO TOO. GET RICH AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU FREE SHIT.

    MY HERO DARYL KATZ

  151. Gret99zky says:

    thehop:
    Just finished watching the best game of hockey I’ve seen all year.

    Leduc vs Devon. Atom 3.

    Overtime. Shootout. 6th round winner.

    Who needs the Oilers or the NHL for that matter when you have this.

    A shootout?

    Gross.

  152. Gayfish says:

    Mike:
    Andy Dufresne,

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I CALL BULLSHIT!!!! A BILLIONAIRE WHO TAKES THE CITYS MONEY FOR A RINK NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO. YEAH YOUR RIGHT , HES MY HERO TOO. GET RICH AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU FREE SHIT.

    MY HERO DARYL KATZ

    *rolls eyes*
    You must be a Houston Flames fan.

  153. JimmyV1965 says:

    frjohnk: Thanks for that.

    Whats interesting is that most fans could understand a season in which we miss the playoffs by just a few points like Tampa Bay last year.A bit of a reload and better health and off to the races the next year.But the fact that we are closer to 31st than a playoff berth and we are now in our second decade of darkness means that the knives are out.And rightfully so.

    The scary thing is that if the salary cap does not increase as much as we need it too ( lets say it only goes from $75M to $78M compared to the highest forecast $75M to $82M) this team may have to sell off one or two assets for cheaper, lesser players.

    RNH for a player/prospects on ELC
    Klefbom for a player/prospect on ELC

    These two moves would save the Oilers about $8M but it also downgrades the overall skill for the team and pushes the timeline for compelting further down the road. But it also may open up enough cap room to bring in a winger for McDavid.

    Most fans may have to accept the idea that next year could be another retool/rebuild year again.

    Id love to be wrong here, but as it stands, the stairs leading out of the basement are missing a few rungs, the lights are off and the door is locked.

    I just hope mngt understands we are entering yet another rebuild phase. Done properly, it should only take two or three years. The best thing they can do is ignore the babble from the fanbase. We wait.

  154. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I am fine with Coach calling out the players for not being ready to play.

    Many have the position that is the coaches job to get the players ready and maybe it is, however, I’ve never thought that its incumbent on the coach to motivate the players to start a game – these are professional athletes making very good money – they should be ready to play each and every game – on their own.

    The coach is not without culpability for many decisions made last night, however, the start of the game, that god awful first period, yes, that is on the players.

    For Shame!

    Part of coaches job is to motivate the players to get ready to play.

    I agree with you, it shouldn’t be hard to motivate professional athletes making millions to play.

    And yet, TMac cannot do what shouldn’t be a difficult task

    What does that say about him?

    He’s a professional coach himself.

  155. OmJo says:

    OilClog: Fuck this it isn’t me it’s the players coach. Your old squad is light years better without you, all the players the Oilers have shipped out are light years better away from you and your stubborn bullshit.

    Quoted for emphasis. So much truth in these two sentences.

  156. Wilde says:

    In my last post, the fire burned through, and has left a gap of 365 man-games for new forwards.

    Now, that’s a lot. It’s spread out among 9 players, but, because of the areas that the new players are going to be acquired from will either be playing vs men for the first time, or playing a longer schedule for the first time. So it’ll be more than 9 new forwards. Which is why it’s going to take multiple avenues to find useful players, they are coming from the following methods:

    – AHLers on expiring contracts / / AHLers whose teams would be willing to trade them

    – Undrafted Europeans

    – Undrafted CHLers

    – Late-birthday 2018 Europeans who play against men

    – Players demoted to the ECHL for dubious reasons from the AHL

    There are also some forwards in the system already who will graduate next year and play in the AHL, I count Benson, Safin, and Maksimov. (Please correct me if I’m missing anyone, I have Yamamoto as an Edmonton Oiler for 60+ games next season)

    That takes care of about a third of the remaining games by itself. But with the shotgun approach I’m going to take, we’ll need to overshoot the margin by a few players, so I’ll count ten candidates as reasonable.

    I’m also going to exclude the college crop of Caggiulas and Veseys, because it’s a little too easy to just pick those, and there is always too much competition to assume we’ll land them.

    I’ll start with the 2018 draftees, because I also have to explain how to get these players: late round trade-downs. When I was verifying the likelihood of VOR’s fantasy trade-downs, I found that early round trade-downs are actually a dying idea compared to what they once were. However, I found that late round-trade downs and AHLer-for-pick were common, as long as they involved a player as well. Here are some examples:

    Maxim Letunov, 2017 6th
    – FOR –
    2016 4th, 2017 3rd

    Freddie Hamilton
    – FOR –
    2016 7th

    Louis Leblanc
    – FOR –
    2015 5th

    Eddie Pasquale, 2014 6th
    – FOR –
    2014 6th, 7th
    2015 7th

    You get the idea. Basically, you trade out the guys I mentioned getting rid of and pair them with a pick for two picks, something like that. Or a prospect even, deal out of the LHD depth chart for a couple picks. Stuff like that.

    The Oilers have 3 picks from round 4, 5, 6 and 7.

    I think, at the end of the sale, you could have more like 7, along with another 7+ more in 2019.

    Next post will be the 2018 draft targets.

  157. JimmyV1965 says:

    HT Joe: Next year, Lucic, Sekera, and Russel will each be a year older (and likely slower), and McDavid’s cap hit climbs by ~$9M while Nurse should expect a big payday (I expect a long term contract, but a cap increase of ~$4M to $5M).Barring a replacement of both coaching staff and GM (not happening based on the verbal), I fully expect next season to be materially worse than this season.After next season, the term “rebuild” will become the only way to describe a path forward for the team.

    Yet I look at the Avs roster and see the modest succsss they’ve enjoyed this year and think there’s absolutely no reason we shouldn’t be at least that good. There’s something wrong here, a huge disconnect somewhere.

  158. OmJo says:

    Ribs:
    I really wonder what in the world is wrong with Klefbom. Not near the same player he’s shown to be in the past. Disappointing.

    His shoulder.

  159. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    JD_Wry:
    Bob says same lines today in practice.

    Hey, why change what’s working.

  160. Gayfish says:

    OmJo: Part of coaches job is to motivate the players to get ready to play.

    I agree with you, it shouldn’t be hard to motivate professional athletes making millions to play.

    And yet, TMac cannot do what shouldn’t be a difficult task

    What does that say about him?

    He’s a professional coach himself.

    Kavis Reed was and is a fantastic motivator. He also had some incredibly unmotivated teams.

  161. who says:

    Wilde:
    In my last post, the fire burned through, and has left a gap of 365 man-games for new forwards.

    Now, that’s a lot. It’s spread out among 9 players, but, because of the areas that the new players are going to be acquired from will either be playing vs men for the first time, or playing a longer schedule for the first time. So it’ll be more than 9 new forwards.Which is why it’s going to take multiple avenues to find useful players, they are coming from the following methods:

    – AHLers on expiring contracts / / AHLers whose teams would be willing to trade them

    – Undrafted Europeans

    – Undrafted CHLers

    – Late-birthday 2018 Europeans who play against men

    – Players demoted to the ECHL for dubious reasons from the AHL

    There are also some forwards in the system already who will graduate next year and play in the AHL, I count Benson, Safin, and Maksimov. (Please correct me if I’m missing anyone, I have Yamamoto as an Edmonton Oiler for 60+ games next season)

    That takes care of about a third of the remaining games by itself. But with the shotgun approach I’m going to take, we’ll need to overshoot the margin by a few players, so I’ll count ten candidates as reasonable.

    I’m also going to exclude the college crop of Caggiulas and Veseys, because it’s a little too easy to just pick those, and there is always too much competition to assume we’ll land them.

    I’ll start with the 2018 draftees, because I also have to explain how to get these players: late round trade-downs. When I was verifying the likelihood of VOR’s fantasy trade-downs, I found that early round trade-downs are actually a dying idea compared to what they once were. However, I found that late round-trade downs and AHLer-for-pick were common, as long as they involved a player as well. Here are some examples:

    Maxim Letunov, 2017 6th– FOR –
    2016 4th, 2017 3rd

    Freddie Hamilton– FOR –
    2016 7th

    Louis Leblanc– FOR –
    2015 5th

    Eddie Pasquale, 2014 6th– FOR –
    2014 6th, 7th
    2015 7th

    You get the idea. Basically, you trade out the guys I mentioned getting rid of and pair them with a pick for two picks, something like that. Or a prospect even, deal out of the LHD depth chart for a couple picks. Stuff like that.

    The Oilers have 3 picks from round 4, 5, 6 and 7.

    I think, at the end of the sale, you could have more like 7, along with another 7+ more in 2019.

    Next post will be the 2018 draft targets.

    I think Safin and Maksimov both have another year of junior left.

  162. OmJo says:

    Todd McLellan: “We can wave the magic wand, we can pound on the desk, we can do all we want. They (his players) have to accept some individual responsibility to be ready to play. There’s not enough of them right now. Tonight’s start was unacceptable.”

    Imagine saying this after losing a game in which you, the coach, decided not to pull your goaltender AND put out Milan Lucic, a player who has yet to score in the year 2018, on a power play with 2:27 remaining in the third period, down 3-2 to the New York Rangers B roster.

    Really, coach? Really?

  163. JimmyV1965 says:

    Andy Dufresne: Im not sure about this but….besides the debate about what makes a good coach…..there is a narrative that says an organization develops a reputation. If you have a rotating door for coaches the good ones no longer view your organization as a prefered destination. You also develop a reputation among players that the org does not stand up for its coaches and this empowers (for lack of a better word) players to become coach killers.

    It may be a weak narrative….but we have hired and fired an obscene number of coaches here in the last 10 years.

    I get that for sure. Bad organizations eat up coaches like candy bars and we’ve definitely done that. It sucks that we’ve become this coach killing vortex. And Tmac is probably an okay coach, but can we afford to bring him back? This is s tough decision for even a well-run organization. Could get real ugly here for awhile.

  164. HT Joe says:

    JimmyV1965: Yet I look at the Avs roster and see the modest succsss they’ve enjoyed this year and think there’s absolutely no reason we shouldn’t be at least that good. There’s something wrong here, a huge disconnect somewhere.

    If the Oilers replace their coaching staff and GM, all bets are off. But if everyone is brought back, next year will likely be worse.

  165. OmJo says:

    Soup Fascist: And a president whose real talents include talking about a vague “plan” that the fans will eventually figure out how brilliant it is

    Holy shit.

    Is Bob Nicholson is the Donald Trump of hockey?

  166. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    HT Joe: If the Oilers replace their coaching staff and GM, all bets are off.But if everyone is brought back, next year will likely be worse.

    Yes indeed. My read exactly.

    I’ll take what’s behind door #1, please.

  167. Woogie63 says:

    Mike:
    Andy Dufresne,

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I CALL BULLSHIT!!!! A BILLIONAIRE WHO TAKES THE CITYS MONEY FOR A RINK NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO. YEAH YOUR RIGHT , HES MY HERO TOO. GET RICH AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU FREE SHIT.

    MY HERO DARYL KATZ

    Ya that Katz what asshole. Spending close to the cap (that is close $100M CND$), getting Bob Nicholson as your CEO, a Stanley Cup winning GM,, the winningest coach available. Lets the hockey guys run the team. Rebuilding the city downtown.

    The man has enough money for four generations and can spend it where ever he wants in the world. I am certain with all the options to spend his money, downtown Edmonton and a NHL hockey team in Edmonton is not even close to the top 100 options.

    So Mike if you are tired of his money, gather a few buddies and make him an offer he can’t refuse.

  168. HT Joe says:

    frjohnk: Up to 20% of a teams roster is changed over year to year, but for the fun of it I went to cap friendly and plugged in
    Nurse at $5M
    Strome at $3M
    And put $1M ( for ease of this exercise) for each of Benning, Cammy, Cag, Sleppy, AV2,
    brought up Gryba as 8th Dman for $950k and Brad Malone as last forward at $650k.

    The Oilers have a cap hit of $76.1 M.Plus they have bonuses of $2.5M to fit in as well.

    So with a salary cap of $78M, that team would not be able to add to the roster from this year, they are actually downgraded from the start of the year when the biggest downgrade is Malone in for Maroon.

    It might not be popular but maybe the proper thing to do is to trade Nuge for a player on a ELC and a prospect and push the rebuild back a couple of years.By that time, the salary cap has increased enough in which the Oilers can add a good piece, some of the bad contracts have mostly run their course and maybe a few of the young group of players (Yamamoto, Benson, etc) are ready to make an impact for us while still cheap.That would be the time for us to compete.

    Thanks for this. I get the feeling Nurse will be signed for $6M (if Chia is at the wheel), but this still means that if the Cap goes up to the most liberal estimate of $82M, the Oilers will be able to bring in an extra $3M in terms of RHD or top-6 winger.

    Put another way, if everything goes right, the Oilers will have ~ $3M cap space, and have trade assets of RNH, Klefbom, and draft picks to plug the following:
    – a top-4 RHD (preferably with an ability to run a PP)
    – 4x top-6 wingers (Jesse and Kailer will likely be pencilled in, so in the GM’s mind, we still likely need 2x top-6 LW)
    – a better backup-goalie (Montoya could be good enough)

    Keep in mind that trading RNH and Klefbom will yield the following:
    – Centre depth is now McDavid, Draisatl, Strome (I really don’t want to trade away RNH)
    – LD depth of Nurse and a damaged Sekera (again, I really don’t want to trade away Klefbom)

    Barring incredible creativity and substantial luck, I fully expect next season to be worse whether or not they trade away Klefbom and RNH.

    For me personally, I would prefer that they keep Klefbom and RNH, suffer through a bad year next year, and hope the cap goes up enough for the 2019-2020 season that they can actually plug a hole without creating another one.

  169. Andy Dufresne says:

    Mike:
    Andy Dufresne,

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I CALL BULLSHIT!!!! A BILLIONAIRE WHO TAKES THE CITYS MONEY FOR A RINK NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO. YEAH YOUR RIGHT , HES MY HERO TOO. GET RICH AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU FREE SHIT.

    MY HERO DARYL KATZ

    You dont like the new arena?

  170. Soup Fascist says:

    OmJo: Holy shit.

    Is Bob Nicholson is the Donald Trump of hockey?

    Don’t be ridiculous. Trump will be gone in 33 months or less. Nicholson ……. part of the “job for life” club.

  171. HT Joe says:

    Woogie63: The man has enough money for four generations and can spend it where ever he wants in the world. I am certain with all the options to spend his money, downtown Edmonton and a NHL hockey team in Edmonton is not even close to the top 100 options.
    So Mike if you are tired of his money, gather a few buddies and make him an offer he can’t refuse.

    Do you understand the arrangement of who is paying for the downtown revitalization? It is NOT getting paid for by the guy living in LA.

  172. Andy Dufresne says:

    JimmyV1965: I get that for sure. Bad organizations eat up coaches like candy bars and we’ve definitely done that. It sucks that we’ve become this coach killing vortex. And Tmac is probably an okay coach, but can we afford to bring him back? This is s tough decision for even a well-run organization.Could get real ugly here for awhile.

    +1 Agreed

  173. Soup Fascist says:

    Mike:
    Andy Dufresne,

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I CALL BULLSHIT!!!! A BILLIONAIRE WHO TAKES THE CITYS MONEY FOR A RINK NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO. YEAH YOUR RIGHT , HES MY HERO TOO. GET RICH AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU FREE SHIT.

    MY HERO DARYL KATZ

    Two words. Eugene Melnyk.

  174. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woogie63: Ya that Katz what asshole.Spending close to the cap (that is close $100M CND$), getting Bob Nicholson as your CEO, a Stanley Cup winning GM,, the winningest coach available. Lets the hockey guys run the team.Rebuilding the city downtown.

    The man has enough money for four generations and can spend it where ever he wants in the world.I am certain with all the options to spend his money, downtown Edmonton and a NHL hockey team in Edmonton is not even close to the top 100 options.

    So Mike if you are tired of his money, gather a few buddies and make him an offer he can’t refuse.

    Quoted for Truth. Thank You.

  175. HT Joe says:

    HT Joe,

    https://globalnews.ca/news/2927009/a-look-back-at-how-edmontons-rogers-place-is-being-paid-for/

    Total Cost: $614M
    City of Edmonton Direct Cost: $313M
    Fans (Ticket Surcharge): $125M
    Oilers: $166M*

    *Most of this $166M is apparently coming in the form of rent that the Katz group will pay for the building, which should actually be just rent since the Katz group receives all revenue from operating the building, even though taxpayers and ticket buys are paying the gross majority of the arena’s cost.

    *EDIT* I quoted numbers directly from the link. I do realize that the numbers do not add up to $614… I don’t know where the discrepancy is.

  176. Dustylegnd says:

    Bling: I can’t recall a situation where a player has been so protected with respect to accountability from the organization and criticism from the media.

    There are players (see Taylor Hall, Jeff Petry and others) who were smeared for the heinous crime of being good (great) at the game of hockey and having value contracts.

    But if you give the puck away, lose every 50/50 battle, make blind passes, and follow it up with a “go get ’em, boys” and a few ass pats, well hell, that’s character, that’s culture, that’s leadership, and guys like Mark Spector will write an article about your bones being heavy but your heart being pure.

    Like I have said before, after repeatedly listening to Stauffer wax on about Lucic, his glare and holding people accountable, I now realize how old school and misguided this organization is.

    The Lucic signing is so thoroughly bad, and crippling, the entire management team is in a gross state of denial and protection mode…..it is a signing that almost certainly ensures they can never run 4 lines deep or sign a true #1 D man without shipping out Nuge and Kleff for pennies on the dollar…..

    I ask how much are marginal assists worth ??? what is the proper super star salary valuation…..you can have Gaudreau and Monahan for 625 K/year more than Connor…..which scenario gives you a greater probability of success? McDavid is an ungodly talent but he only has 6 more points than Gaudreau…plus you get all of Monahan’s points for 625 k??….get my drift ????

    WE can pay McDavid 12.5 but we can’t also pay Leon 8.5 and for sure we can’t pay Lucic 6 and Russel 4….why would any sane organization want to keep this type of “stability”????

    Math guys seriously ……what are McDavids incremental points vs the pack really worth?? I truly believe he is the most talented player in the world and wonder where in the hell the Oilers would be without him….but man at 12.5 you really limit your options

  177. Andy Dufresne says:

    HT Joe: Do you understand the arrangement of who is paying for the downtown revitalization?It is NOT getting paid for by the guy living in LA.

    Youd prefer the downtown remain an empty decaying wasteland?

  178. Andy Dufresne says:

    HT Joe:
    HT Joe,

    https://globalnews.ca/news/2927009/a-look-back-at-how-edmontons-rogers-place-is-being-paid-for/

    Total Cost:$614M
    City of Edmonton Direct Cost:$313M
    Fans (Ticket Surcharge): $125M
    Oilers: $166M*

    *Most of this $166M is apparently coming in the form of rent that the Katz group will pay for the building, which should actually be just rent since the Katz group receives all revenue from operating the building, even though taxpayers and ticket buys are paying the gross majority of the arena’s cost.

    *EDIT*I quoted numbers directly from the link.I do realize that the numbers do not add up to $614… I don’t know where the discrepancy is.

    Im not sure…..are you for or against the user pay component?

    Im not being argumentative here….i am trying to understand….which part of that financial breakdown do you have the problem with?

  179. OmJo says:

    Oilman99: Sutter is old school, the game has passed him by. The grinding game no longer works,speed is what every club ,including the Kings ,is looking for. Forget the dinasaurs,comb the AHL for the best up and coming talent like Colorado and Detroit did.

    That’s how we got Eakins.

    The same people who picked Eakins are employed by this team in some capacity.

    Then again, that’s also what we did with Nelson. But the same people who gave up on Nelson are employed by this team in some capacity.

    Ugh. Oilers.

  180. OmJo says:

    jtblack: He is also one who has a 17 Game Point streak, in which he has 33 Points!

    Not too shabby

    If I’m a Russian player I’d rather be exiled to Siberia than drafted by the Oilers. The weather isn’t much different but at least I’ll get ice time and not become a scapegoat in the last year of my ELC.

  181. Andy Dufresne says:

    OmJo: If I’m a Russian player I’d rather be exiled to Siberia than drafted by the Oilers. The weather isn’t much different but at least I’ll get ice time and not become a scapegoat in the last year of my ELC.

    ScapeBee

  182. HT Joe says:

    Andy Dufresne: Im not sure…..are you for or against the user pay component?

    I am against the notion that Katz opened up a huge piggy bank and paid for the arena. I was responding to an comment “if you are tired of [Katz’s] money”.

    A small portion of the arena was paid for by Katz’s money, but all of the profits from the building are becoming Katz’s money.

    I’m not commenting on a preference either way for or against the new arena. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to thank Katz for raining money down upon us dummies living in Edmonton when we aren’t even a top 100 best choice. Edmonton was the BEST place for Katz to have the Arena built, because Edmonton was the city willing to pay for nearly all of the arena while giving him full control.

    *If Katz didn’t have full control of the Arena, Edmonton would still have a championship lacrosse team – thanks Katz!!

  183. HT Joe says:

    Andy Dufresne: Im not being argumentative here….i am trying to understand….which part of that financial breakdown do you have the problem with?

    Thanks for confirming this… I tried to keep that in mind with my latest response.

  184. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Soup Fascist,
    When I read that they were naming a menu item after an executive I was surprised and knew bad things would happen.

    It takes a special kind of hubris to draw attention to yourself like that or allow it even if not your idea. The spectacle is on the ice not in an office. Who does that?

    It was a harbinger of wrong thinking and poor decision making, and not surprisingly we are seeing another cluster f**k forming about us like a storm. It is so similar in style, preferences and ego as the years since Sather it is remarkable really given so many new people are on board.

    Clearly they are hiring the same personality repeatedly because the results are nearly identical. Another sign of bad things to come, such tunnel vision and group think it’s like an inescapable vortex.

  185. VOR says:

    I can’t help myself. We have reached a teachable moment.

    Someone asked what do coaches do? I am going to provide a partial answer to that question based on more than 4 decades of hard earned experience.

    I will not be talking here about technical coaching. Coaching has many technical aspects that are often unique to the sport. These are called the micro tasks of coaching and they are vital to coaching success.

    However, they are called micro-tasks to differentiate them from the meta tasks that are common to coaching all sports. Meta tasks also tend to be foundational. You have to build them into every thing you do.

    Bob Johnson was fond of saying that he started by making sure every player he coached knew that Bob wanted him to succeed and he’d try everything he could think of to help them succeed but they had to take responsibility for their own effort and involvement. In psychological terms he started by establishing the process of continuous autonomy support. Providing autonomy support is about helping the athlete develop self-determined motivation. It is the first meta-task.

    You want the athletes you coach to have self-determined motivation because it is strongly correlated with improved and maximal human performance. If you motivate them yourself instead of supporting their development of autonomy and self-determination they will be psychologically fragile, one bad call, one bad goal and they will wilt. It sure looks like the Oilers have not developed the needed level of self-determination.

    Another key meta task is leadership transference. This one is a bit trickier. You want to model the behaviour you want to pass on. As an example let’s take self-management. As a coach you want to be human but a very disciplined and calm human. You want to be prepared but flexible. You want to be funny but serious. You want to look after yourself but sacrifice for others. And you want to be balanced in all these things.

    The thing I loved about Bob was he was that he perfectly modelled the extraordinary traits he wanted his athletes to possess. But he also was warm, funny, and joyful. He knew what he was doing but his own motivation was never to make better hockey players. It was to make better humans. If you know any of the hundreds and hundreds of athletes Bob Johnson coached you know they all react the same when you bring up his name.

    First they shake their heads, then they shed a tear, then they tell you a funny Badger Bob story. Then they pause. After they get control of themselves they say, “He changed my life. Forever. For the better. He made me the person I am today.”

    That is leadership transference.

    You want every athlete to be their own leader. In team sports you want each athlete to be capable of leading others. You want a team of leaders. This starts as I said with leading yourself.

    I could go on through the other eight key meta tasks but I want to make sure I am clear.

    To be a great coach you’ve got to have mastery of the critical micro-tasks. These are unique to each sport. I coach athletes from many sports and am certified to coach in quite a number of those sports (you can’t work with carded athletes and get paid if you aren’t certified). I can assure you the day to day work life of a soccer coach and of a swim coach look nothing alike.

    I am not certified in hockey coaching and have never coached the sport. I am in no way qualified to comment on what they do day to day. I am however really well versed in the meta-tasks of coaching and stand by my positions that

    A) the coaching staff should be terminated because it is easy to see that the players aren’t receiving autonomy support – Todd keeps saying so in press conferences. And there is zero on ice leadership at many critical times which means Todd failed in Leadership transference.

    B) the players have to own this shit show. They should all be deeply ashamed. The on ice leaders should be sickened to the center of their souls. To end with a Badger Bobism. “Each day, each game is a new chance to prove yourself. It is never too late to be great.” It is time for the young core of the Oilers to begin the journey to greatness.

  186. v4ance says:

    Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani

    With his assist on Connor McDavid’s goal, Cam Talbot ties Milan Lucic in points in their last 17 games.

    Coaching would NEVER make a suboptimal decision to handicap the best player on the team with the most underperforming one, would they?

  187. Scungilli Slushy says:

    At the end of the day all we need to do is look at the on ice product to hang blame and figure out a next step.

    I have defended McLellan, but when an NHL team with a decent roster can’t execute basic NHL hockey it is inexcusable. If you’re players can’t do what you ask teach them or do something that works.

    Aberg spoke about being creative Andy that is a good thing. As LT said JP looks like a man without a plan. A lot of them do and the attack outside of Connor ranges from dismal to erratic.

    If you want to riff with the best of them, first you have to learn the notes and a few songs. I’m all for a flexible offensive plan because formulaic teams are too predictable and the Oilers have enough talent to riff.

    But maybe first they should teach them a basic plan and a strategy of what they are trying to do such as get open and go to soft spots, support the puck. The Oilers are terrible at puck support. It kills their cycles and their breakouts.

    Give them a plan so when there is no obvious play they make a smart one at least. Let them flow a bit not being too system rigid. But they need far more organization and this is definitely a coaching issue. They should look like a well playing team and they look like they just broke camp.

  188. VOR says:

    Wilde:
    In my last post, the fire burned through, and has left a gap of 365 man-games for new forwards.

    Now, that’s a lot. It’s spread out among 9 players, but, because of the areas that the new players are going to be acquired from will either be playing vs men for the first time, or playing a longer schedule for the first time. So it’ll be more than 9 new forwards.Which is why it’s going to take multiple avenues to find useful players, they are coming from the following methods:

    – AHLers on expiring contracts / / AHLers whose teams would be willing to trade them

    – Undrafted Europeans

    – Undrafted CHLers

    – Late-birthday 2018 Europeans who play against men

    – Players demoted to the ECHL for dubious reasons from the AHL

    There are also some forwards in the system already who will graduate next year and play in the AHL, I count Benson, Safin, and Maksimov. (Please correct me if I’m missing anyone, I have Yamamoto as an Edmonton Oiler for 60+ games next season)

    That takes care of about a third of the remaining games by itself. But with the shotgun approach I’m going to take, we’ll need to overshoot the margin by a few players, so I’ll count ten candidates as reasonable.

    I’m also going to exclude the college crop of Caggiulas and Veseys, because it’s a little too easy to just pick those, and there is always too much competition to assume we’ll land them.

    I’ll start with the 2018 draftees, because I also have to explain how to get these players: late round trade-downs. When I was verifying the likelihood of VOR’s fantasy trade-downs, I found that early round trade-downs are actually a dying idea compared to what they once were. However, I found that late round-trade downs and AHLer-for-pick were common, as long as they involved a player as well. Here are some examples:

    Maxim Letunov, 2017 6th– FOR –
    2016 4th, 2017 3rd

    Freddie Hamilton– FOR –
    2016 7th

    Louis Leblanc– FOR –
    2015 5th

    Eddie Pasquale, 2014 6th– FOR –
    2014 6th, 7th
    2015 7th

    You get the idea. Basically, you trade out the guys I mentioned getting rid of and pair them with a pick for two picks, something like that. Or a prospect even, deal out of the LHD depth chart for a couple picks. Stuff like that.

    The Oilers have 3 picks from round 4, 5, 6 and 7.

    I think, at the end of the sale, you could have more like 7, along with another 7+ more in 2019.

    Next post will be the 2018 draft targets.

    Hey I have an expiring contract for you. It is a two way. Anthony Greco in Florida. Great penalty killer. Has worked very hard at the skill.

    Just because trade downs have become rare doesn’t mean they aren’t available. More likely GMs dropping down are scared shitless about getting it wrong. Not that trade up teams wouldn’t do it in a heart beat.

  189. Andy Dufresne says:

    HT Joe: I am against the notion that Katz opened up a huge piggy bank and paid for the arena.I was responding to an comment “if you are tired of [Katz’s] money”.

    A small portion of the arena was paid for by Katz’s money, but all of the profits from the building are becoming Katz’s money.

    I’m not commenting on a preference either way for or against the new arena.But I don’t think it’s reasonable to thank Katz for raining money down upon us dummies living in Edmonton when we aren’t even a top 100 best choice.Edmonton was the BEST place for Katz to have the Arena built, because Edmonton was the city willing to pay for nearly all of the arena while giving him full control.

    *If Katz didn’t have full control of the Arena, Edmonton would still have a championship lacrosse team – thanks Katz!!

    I get your point now. Thanks.

    I think ones opinion of the deal swings on the idea of whether you think of it as a business deal or a kind of cash grab.

    I kind of lean in the direction of business deal.

    The City liked the deal or they would not have done it. ( of course they would have like Katz to pay for more of it)

    Katz liked the deal because he owns the Oilers and because he can leverage the deal to make money on his investment.

    Oilers hockey fans seem to like the deal. the barn is sold out every night not just for hockey but for everything….Garth Brooks 9 shows…etc

    Progress always carries some pain. Ticket prices are outrageous.

  190. Scungilli Slushy says:

    I noticed in all the Poile rigmarole that Fenton has been his asst for 20 years. Given
    Poile is 69 I’m pretty sure he’s taking the Preda over in the next few years especially given
    Poile has achieved his milestones. Poile probably has a reduced role somewhere in the org.

  191. Andy Dufresne says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Soup Fascist,
    When I read that they were naming a menu item after an executive I was surprised and knew bad things would happen.

    It takes a special kind of hubris to draw attention to yourself like that or allow it even if not your idea. The spectacle is on the ice not in an office. Who does that?

    It was a harbinger of wrong thinking and poor decision making, and not surprisingly we are seeing another cluster f**k forming about us like a storm. It is so similar in style, preferences and ego as the years since Sather it is remarkable really given so many new people are on board.

    Clearly they are hiring the same personality repeatedly because the results are nearly identical.Another sign of bad things to come, such tunnel vision and group think it’s like an inescapable vortex.

    The Vortex of Richness. Im not kidding you. Its what rich people do. Contrary to narrative that sometimes runs in here, Tier One is nice place to live. I know because every now and then I get to visit it.

  192. HT Joe says:

    Andy Dufresne: I get your point now. Thanks.

    I think ones opinion of the deal swings on the idea of whether you think of it as a business deal or a kind of cash grab.

    I kind of lean in the direction of business deal.

    The City liked the deal or they would not have done it. ( of course they would have like Katz to pay for more of it)

    Katz liked the deal because he owns the Oilers and because he can leverage the deal to make money on his investment.

    Oilers hockey fans seem to like the deal. the barn is sold out every night not just for hockey but for everything….Garth Brooks 9 shows…etc

    Progress always carries some pain. Ticket prices are outrageous.

    I fully agree with your points here. There was buy-in all around.

    The funny thing for me is that I still don’t know if I personally like the new arena or not. I see the positives and negatives of it, and they seem so close to balancing out, I can’t say if I’m for or against it. For me personally, the seats are still crowded (I’m a tall person), the stairs and bathrooms seem overly-crowded, and the ticket cost is much higher. But it’s a fancier building, players clearly like it, and I absolutely understand that from a PR perspective, it’s good for the city that I love.

    On a related note, I’m fascinated to see Nenshi and the Flames duke it out. Fun times.

  193. Andy Dufresne says:

    VOR:
    I can’t help myself. We have reached a teachable moment.

    Someone asked what do coaches do? I am going to provide a partial answer to that question based on more than 4 decades of hard earned experience.

    I will not be talking here about technical coaching. Coaching has many technical aspects that are often unique to the sport. These are called the micro tasks of coaching and they are vital to coaching success.

    However, they are called micro-tasks to differentiate them from the meta tasks that are common to coaching all sports. Meta tasks also tend to be foundational. You have to build them into every thing you do.

    Bob Johnson was fond of saying that he started by making sure every player he coached knew that Bob wanted him to succeed and he’d try everything he could think of to help them succeed but they had to take responsibility for their own effort and involvement. In psychological terms he started by establishing the process of continuous autonomy support. Providing autonomy support is about helping the athlete develop self-determined motivation. It is the first meta-task.

    You want the athletes you coach to have self-determined motivation because it is strongly correlated with improved and maximal human performance. If you motivate them yourself instead of supporting their development of autonomy and self-determination they will be psychologically fragile, one bad call, one bad goal and they will wilt. It sure looks like the Oilers have not developed the needed level of self-determination.

    Another key meta task is leadership transference. This one is a bit trickier. You want to model the behaviour you want to pass on. As an example let’s take self-management. As a coach you want to be human but a very disciplined and calm human. You want to be prepared but flexible. You want to be funny but serious. You want to look after yourself but sacrifice for others. And you want to be balanced in all these things.

    The thing I loved about Bob was he was that he perfectly modelled the extraordinary traits he wanted his athletes to possess. But he also was warm, funny, and joyful. He knew what he was doing but his own motivation was never to make better hockey players. It was to make better humans. If you know any of the hundreds and hundreds of athletes Bob Johnson coached you know they all react the same when you bring up his name.

    First they shake their heads, then they shed a tear, then they tell you a funny Badger Bob story. Then they pause. After they get control of themselves they say, “He changed my life. Forever. For the better. He made me the person I am today.”

    That is leadership transference.

    You want every athlete to be their own leader. In team sports you want each athlete to be capable of leading others. You want a team of leaders. This starts as I said with leading yourself.

    I could go on through the other eight key meta tasks but I want to make sure I am clear.

    To be a great coach you’ve got to have mastery of the critical micro-tasks. These are unique to each sport. I coach athletes from many sports and am certified to coach in quite a number of those sports (you can’t work with carded athletes and get paid if you aren’t certified). I can assure you the day to day work life of a soccer coach and of a swim coach look nothing alike.

    I am not certified in hockey coaching and have never coached the sport. I am in no way qualified to comment on what they do day to day. I am however really well versed in the meta-tasks of coaching and stand by my positions that

    A) the coaching staff should be terminated because it is easy to see that the players aren’t receiving autonomy support – Todd keeps saying so in press conferences. And there is zero on ice leadership at many critical times which means Todd failed in Leadership transference.

    B) the players have to own this shit show. They should all be deeply ashamed. The on ice leaders should be sickened to the center of their souls. To end with a Badger Bobism. “Each day, each game is a new chance to prove yourself. It is never too late to be great.” It is time for the young core of the Oilers to begin the journey to greatness.

    Good Post. Thank you.

    Question for you. If the coach does all the things you say he should do above, and it dosent work, How do you know if the coach is just bad at it, or that the players are just not good enough?

    Point A combined with Point B would suggest you just need to shut it down or blow it up. Yes/No?

  194. JimmyV1965 says:

    Dustylegnd: Like I have said before, after repeatedly listening to Stauffer wax on about Lucic, his glare and holding people accountable, I now realize how old school and misguided this organization is.

    The Lucic signing is so thoroughly bad, and crippling, the entire management team is in a gross state of denial and protection mode…..it is a signing that almost certainly ensures they can never run 4 lines deep or sign a true #1 D man without shipping out Nuge and Kleff for pennies on the dollar…..

    I ask how much are marginal assists worth ??? what is the proper super star salary valuation…..you can have Gaudreau and Monahan for 625 K/year more than Connor…..which scenario gives you a greater probability of success?McDavid is an ungodly talent but he only has 6 more points than Gaudreau…plus you get all of Monahan’s points for 625 k??….get my drift ????

    WE can pay McDavid 12.5 but we can’t also pay Leon 8.5 and for sure we can’t pay Lucic 6 and Russel 4….why would any sane organization want to keep this type of “stability”????

    Math guys seriously ……what are McDavids incremental points vs the pack really worth??I truly believe he is the most talented player in the world and wonder where in the hell the Oilers would be without him….but man at 12.5 you really limit your options

    So we’ve got to the point where we’re questioning McDavid’s salary? Yes, I would rather have McDavid than Monahan and Gaudreau. Every day of the week. Johnny Hockey is a particularly bad example because I don’t think any team can win if he’s their best player. He ain’t Patrick Kane.

  195. Andy Dufresne says:

    HT Joe: I fully agree with your points here.There was buy-in all around.

    The funny thing for me is that I still don’t know if I personally like the new arena or not.I see the positives and negatives of it, and they seem so close to balancing out, I can’t say if I’m for or against it.For me personally, the seats are still crowded (I’m a tall person), the stairs and bathrooms seem overly-crowded, and the ticket cost is much higher.But it’s a fancier building, players clearly like it, and I absolutely understand that from a PR perspective, it’s good for the city that I love.

    On a related note, I’m fascinated to see Nenshi and the Flames duke it out.Fun times.

    Man. You have completely described my exact experience. I too am tall, the seats are too crowded, building coridors are overly crowded, line ups are long, ticket prices are crazy, on ice product is sub par, food quality is better than Rexall but not much. Technology in the building is really good. I get free parking downtown.

    On the one hand I guess it can be argued its a premium experience…premium technology, premium booze, premium prices.

    But given a choice between the old Rexall experience at Rexall prices and the Premium experience i think id take the old Rexall expereince. But hey…Im frugal by nature so….

    All things considered…..Im ok to put my prefernces aside in the name of progress (no choice anyway)

    I do think it is good for the City. I just dont beleive the NHL is overly concerned with its fans because SO much of what they do is done to benefit thier bottom line..not to help the fans.

    Drives me crazy that I pay $$$$ to see a game in my home town and only $ to see a game in better seats in Pheonix. There should be NHL Fans Bill of Rights that deals with these things that are ruining the modern day game experience.

  196. v4ance says:

    HT Joe: On a related note, I’m fascinated to see Nenshi and the Flames duke it out.Fun times.

    HT Joe,

    The Flames overplayed their hand and went all in on a bet to dislodge Nenshi and lost.

    Now Nenshi feels that the electorate backed his position for the Victoria park stadium. The land is there and ready, the Green line Ctrain is being run one block from the available land and the mayor is lining up the provincial funding for a few years down the road. The Flames either crawl back and pay 1/3 of the cost they or stay at the Saddledome.

    The Flames should have struck a deal when the Oilers did but they assumed the oil windfall would continue endlessly. Now with no gusher of oil revenues and an unfriendly NDP government, there’s no way the Flames will be able to strongarm their version of the new facility into existence.

  197. GMB3 says:

    JimmyV1965: GM

    What do the Oil Kings have to do with the Oilers? The Oilers will still shit when the Oil kings were a top team in the entirety of the CHL and it had no bearing on the NHL. Interesting narrative though…

  198. ArmchairGM says:

    Andy Dufresne: Ive said it before in previous posts.Teams and especially goalies get up to play McDavid.

    What???? The Oilers have seen more backup goalies this year than just about any other team. How is that getting up to play McDavid? They obviously have looked at the franchise and correctly surmised that it’s a good night to rest their teams best.

  199. frjohnk says:

    Dustylegnd: Like I have said before, after repeatedly listening to Stauffer wax on about Lucic, his glare and holding people accountable, I now realize how old school and misguided this organization is.

    The Lucic signing is so thoroughly bad, and crippling, the entire management team is in a gross state of denial and protection mode…..it is a signing that almost certainly ensures they can never run 4 lines deep or sign a true #1 D man without shipping out Nuge and Kleff for pennies on the dollar…..

    I ask how much are marginal assists worth ??? what is the proper super star salary valuation…..you can have Gaudreau and Monahan for 625 K/year more than Connor…..which scenario gives you a greater probability of success?McDavid is an ungodly talent but he only has 6 more points than Gaudreau…plus you get all of Monahan’s points for 625 k??….get my drift ????

    WE can pay McDavid 12.5 but we can’t also pay Leon 8.5 and for sure we can’t pay Lucic 6 and Russel 4….why would any sane organization want to keep this type of “stability”????

    Math guys seriously ……what are McDavids incremental points vs the pack really worth??I truly believe he is the most talented player in the world and wonder where in the hell the Oilers would be without him….but man at 12.5 you really limit your options

    McDavid is the best or 2nd best player in the league. He could have gotten the league max and he would still be value.

    Teams that have signed many of Draisaitl’s comparables to contracts with AAV’s from $1M to $2.8M less than Drai are getting incredible value deals.

    What this means is that the Oilers need to be even more cap efficient with the rest of their roster relatively speaking than other teams such as the Flames.

    McDavid/Drai cap hit $21.M
    Gaudreau/Monahan cap hit $13.1M

    With a $78M salary cap next year
    Oilers have $57M in cap space for the 21 other players ( $2.7M per player avg)
    Flames have $64.9M in cap space for the 21 other players ($3M per player avg)

    Next fall, the Oilers could ice the same team as today, which right now, is closer to 31st place than a playoff spot, but by next fall the team will have little cap flexibility. We can blame McDavid and Drai on the cap flexibility part, but there is no way in hell we can blame them for the team being a lottery team once again.

    The problems about our cap is not that McDavid and Drai are overpaid, the problems are the fact that there have been contracts given out to many of our veterans are not be worth the production AND we have few value contracts. I wont go through the usual suspects ( the NMC’s), but one example, is that the team cant afford to pay a guy like Kassian on the 4th line almost $2M. The 4th line should be players at $1M or less.

    Oilers are in cap hell next year. It is what it is. And that would be fine if we were a contending/winning team but we are not there. We can not blame our two best players for this situation of being in cap hell while at the same time being close to in the basement. The problem is that the team around them is not bringing the value in regards to the cap needed to compete.

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