Tangled up in Blue

If the Edmonton Oilers are going to use the No. 9 overall selection, it will probably be spent on a European forward or a puck moving defenseman somewhere in the northern hemisphere. We looked at the forwards via primary points yesterday, let’s see what we can find out about the blue.

THE ATHLETIC!

Great playoff special! Try The Athletic on for size free and see if they enjoy the in-depth, ad-free coverage on the site. Offer is here.

PRIMARY POINTS (D, 5X5) 2017 DRAFT

A quick note: This is a little unfair for some defensemen, but I tried to even out the playing field by taking away special teams boxcars. In what was a down year for CHL defensemen offensively, the fantastically talented Juuso Valimaki and Connor Timmins were the class of the group. This year’s group is a larger and more talented offensive pool.

PRIMARY POINTS (D, 5X5) 2017 DRAFT

Evan Bouchard is the class of the group, with Ryan Merkley and Ty Smith trailing. Noah Dobson is a nice option and there are a bunch of interesting players from 5-10 on this list. If the Oilers choose a forward at No. 9, some of these names would be available when they select in the second round.

PRIMARY 5X5 POINTS/GAME FROM THE PAST

  1. Darnell Nurse 2013 (OHL) .26
  2. David Musil 2011 (WHL) .21
  3. Ethan Bear 2015 (WHL) .14
  4. Dmitri Samorukov 2017 (OHL) .12
  5. Brandon Davidson 2010 (WHL) .10
  6. Markus Niemelainen 2016 (OHL) .09
  7. Alex Plante 2007 (WHL) .09
  8. Jeremie Blain 2010 (QMJHL) .08
  9. Ben Betker 2013 (WHL) .04

As you can see, Edmonton has been pursuing two-way and shutdown defensemen in the CHL pools over the last decade. Darnell Nurse is sometimes mentioned as an offensive option but Edmonton still hasn’t used him consistently in that role (Klefbom, Sekera). All 26 of his points this past season were at even strength, placing him among the 40 best defenders in the NHL in the category. Drafting a Bouchard or a Merkley or a Smith would be a departure from previous CHL selections.

KEITH GRETZKY FOLLOWUP

  • Lowetide:  Fans often rip Bruins scouts for not grabbing Mathew Barzal, Kyle Connor, Brock Boeser and others, and there was a lot of talent passed over by Boston (and other teams). That said, early hits like Jake DeBrusk and Brandon Carlo suggest Gretzky and his crew did in fact get value from the picks.

I received some push back on that statement yesterday, the reaction being I glossed over some pretty damning picks (I think they missed on one player, Barzal). It brings up an excellent question: How many misses should a scouting department be allowed? I think the answer must be “more than one” and of course all scouting departments miss on players who eventually become impact assets. Here are the selections from that fateful run in 2015, and my rankings for each player involved.

  • No. 13 Boston D Jakub Zboril (Lowetide No. 22)
  • No. 14 Boston L Jake DeBrusk (Lowetide No. 20)
  • No. 15 Boston R Zach Senyshyn (Lowetide No. 26)
  • No. 16 NYI C Mathew Barzal (Lowetide No. 8)
  • No. 17 Winnipeg C Kyle Connor (Lowetide No. 19)
  • No. 18 Ottawa D Thomas Chabot (Lowetide No. 23)
  • No. 23 Vancouver R Brock Boeser (Lowetide No. 31)

Boston reached three times, one of that trio looks like an astute choice. The other two are lagging but we are three years into the process. Absolutely should have taken Barzal (same can be said for Florida and Dallas) but Connor, Chabot and Boeser weren’t drafted out of order based on my list. Your mileage may vary, but the only player I can fault Boston for passing on is Barzal (we didn’t know Boeser was Boeser).

Put another way, legend has it the Oiles would have chosen Joel Eriksson Ek at No. 16 if the team held their position. I ranked him No. 17 (my list is here) and that would have been in the range. Lots of teams missed on Barzal, missed on Boeser, missed on Connor. I don’t see missing on Barzal as a mortal sin. He blossomed and is clearly one of the best names in the draft. I had him No. 8, and can’t tell you why teams passed on him (might have been size or speed). Doesn’t matter now.

On this year’s list, I have Ty Smith at No. 4. He may not go top 10. No one knew Barzal was going to be Barzal (I didn’t, despite the ranking) and no one knows if Smith will turn into Duncan Keith. The Bruins made good bets in my opinion, with some wobble in 2015 mid-first. How much do you punish their grade for that? Do you take the David Pastrnak pick away as a ‘gain’? That might be the most equitable way of looking at it, and I’m still onside with the draft record for other quality picks (McAvoy, Carlo, Heinen, Donato). Interesting discussion.

Sounds like the Oilers may be moving out all of last year’s assistants (Jim Johnson, Jay Woodcroft and Ian Herbers), with Glen Gulutzan and Trent Yawney rumored to be coming aboard. Yawney is a fascinating option, he coached up a lot of AHL players into NHL players during his time in the minors. Our own Supernova wrote about him (without saying his name) in this piece three years ago. Yawney coached the Syracuse Crunch in 2011-12, and then Norfolk in the two seasons following. Overall, I think this is good, resumes look good and we’ll see. There would be two potential replacement coaches on the team, that can’t be lost on Todd McLellan. He also appears to have lost what we conceive as a power struggle over Woodcroft, who has been his lieutenant for more than a decade. As for Woodcroft, it is not a promotion but could end up benefiting him heavily. If he can improve the success average for graduating prospects from Bakersfield, it will be noticeable in a big way.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

It’s Friday and that means a fun show, beginning at 10 on TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Steve Lansky, BigMouthSports. Oilers coaching changes, Leafs out, Penguins and VGK win.
  • Seerat Sohi, The Athletic and SB Nation. Raptors calmed the waters and won a big game last night.
  • Matt Iwanyk, TSN1260. NFL draft went off last night, round one was nothing close to what was expected.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Giddyup!

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187 Responses to "Tangled up in Blue"

  1. Rondo says:

    @DarrenDreger

    Glen Gulutzan is in discussions with multiple teams for an assistant/associate job. The Oilers are among the teams interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwSZvHqf9qM

  2. pts2pndr says:

    How does leaving Todd McLellan as head coach fix the obvious disconnect between the GM and coach that was so apparent last year? This is like leaving your winter tires on over the summer and puting two new winter spares in the trunk. This tells me the forensic audit ended in a hung jury!

  3. dustrock says:

    What’s Gulutzan’s strength as a coach?

    Seems a bit strange to me for our rival to fire him because of a disappointing season, only for an even more disappointing team to have him move 2 hours up the QE2 for an assistant job.

    Like, how wide is the circle of options they’re looking at? West to Jasper and East to Saskatoon?

  4. dustrock says:

    pts2pndr:
    How does leaving Todd McLellan as head coach fix the obvious disconnect between the GM and coach that was so apparent last year? This is like leaving your winter tires on over the summer and puting two new winter spares in the trunk. This tells me the forensic audit ended in a hung jury!

    Well they haven’t come out to say McLellan is back. I suspect they await other teams letting go of first round disappointments,though not sure who is an obvious improvement.

  5. Bos8 says:

    dustrock:
    What’s Gulutzan’s strength as a coach?

    Seems a bit strange to me for our rival to fire him because of a disappointing season, only for an even more disappointing team to have him move 2 hours up the QE2 for an assistant job.

    Like, how wide is the circle of options they’re looking at?West to Jasper and East to Saskatoon?

    Gulutzan has good hair ala Eakins

  6. deardylan says:

    RikiTheBear,

    Yeah always fun to read your posts although the last one about cancer made me feel sad. I hope you continue to write posts full of life, get through the med tiredness and recover fully.

  7. so polar says:

    last night I dreamt my nine am coffee and lowetide had news of a nuge for palmieri trade, which was horrifying.
    best wishes to rick, you got this

  8. Doug McLachlan says:

    dustrock:
    What’s Gulutzan’s strength as a coach?

    Seems a bit strange to me for our rival to fire him because of a disappointing season, only for an even more disappointing team to have him move 2 hours up the QE2 for an assistant job.

    Like, how wide is the circle of options they’re looking at?West to Jasper and East to Saskatoon?

    I understand that both Yawney and Gulutzan have reputations of being good on the PK – a clear area of need – but what is the x’s and o’s addition (if any) for the Power Play?

  9. Oilin4 says:

    If Boston had followed Lowetide’s list they would have gone Barzal, Connor, Debrusk in 2015, have them all on cheap ELCs and would be absolutely unstoppable right now and for the foreseeable future. How has an NHL front office not hired this man?

  10. Brantford Boy says:

    Great posts the last couple days LT… I had to revisit the LT top 100… ughh, numbers…

    I see you have the following:
    16. (16) RD Calen Addison, Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL). Creative player, very fast.
    34. (35) LD Alex Alexeyev, Red Deer Rebels (WHL). Big man, calm feet, has skill.
    35. (37) LD Jared McIssac, Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL). Powerful skater, emerging offense.
    72. (NR) LD Nicolas Beaudin, Drummondville (QMJHL). Impressive puck mover, speed a concern.

    In my limited 20 minutes of research its interesting that McIssac is rated pretty high in the other scouting lists as opposed to Calen Addison. I see Calen basically doubled his point totals year over year with a hit on +/-. I was wondering why you have him so high compared to McIssac given the table above for points?

    I like the other 2 names here, Alex Alexeyev is in the range he might still be available for our 2nd… and year over year Nicolas Beaudin has made excellent strides in the Q, almost doubling points and an effective +/-, so… how slow is he?

    Cheers!

  11. errorjordan says:

    If my memory serves my right Barzal was considered a top 5 prospect, but injury concerns pushed him down for many teams.

  12. ChiliChunk says:

    Oilin4:
    If Boston had followed Lowetide’s list they would have gone Barzal, Connor, Debrusk in 2015, have them all on cheap ELCs and would be absolutely unstoppable right now and for the foreseeable future. How has an NHL front office not hired this man?

    Not quite. Using LT’s list they would have picked:

    Barzal (LT #8)
    Svechnikov (LT #10)
    Jeremy Roy (LT #12)

  13. pts2pndr says:

    Take care Mr Bear and beat this thing! Love me some more Bear prints on this site! My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your loved ones!

  14. jp says:

    LT, that number for Musil is surprisingly good, though his offense didn’t progress at all.

    Curious, do you have the number for Reinhart?

  15. geowal says:

    errorjordan:
    If my memory serves my right Barzal was considered a top 5 prospect, but injury concerns pushed him down for many teams.

    Oilers probably had a draft for news based reason for intending to pass. Maybe it’s because I follow this site so closely, but I was absolutely stunned when Boston passed 3 times, was laughing at their version of an OBC (Neely), and feeling happy about our “professional manager”.
    That feeling quickly passed…

  16. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    HBomb texted me a theory this AM:

    “They’re not firing McLellan now because Chiarelli wants that card to play in November after he has another shitty summer and the team starts slow in October”

    While I think the team could be much better if Sekera, Klefbom and Larsson come to camp in full health, I think the theory that Peter is holding on to the “fires the coach card” in case of emergency is an interesting theory.

    It *might* buy him another summer if more bed shitting happens this fall and they improve post-firing (due to coaching, PDO or whatever)

    Also,

    There would be two potential replacement coaches on the team, that can’t be lost on Todd McLellan. He also appears to have lost what we conceive as a power struggle over Woodcroft, who has been his lieutenant for more than a decade.

    This fits with the Hbomb theory. Two guys with NHL HC experience next to him.

    As for the Woodcroft thing, I agree that its a big deal

    I had heard from more than one source that Woodcroft on staff was a “line in the sand” for McLellan but maybe self preservation took over that notion with the offer of a “reasonable” compromise that Woodcroft stays in the org and is actually in a position to further his career with some time as a pro HC.

  17. leadfarmer says:

    Barzal was a giant miss. Sure teams passed on it but when casual fans make a better call than the professionals that should be a red flag.
    Kyle Connor was drafted in the range no one thought Boeser was Boeser is not correct. Scouting continues to ignore USHL hockey players which by many of us south of the border jumped QMJHL years ago. I severely punish all QMJHL players in my draft rankings and prop up USHL players in mine

    Kyle Connor 34 46 80 in 56 games played 2 years in a row
    Boeser 35 33 68 in 57 games played
    Keller 13 24 37 in 23 US under 18 games

    This is where the new breed of forward lives. Not in the Q. Q is ok for d but forwards pretty meh. So where the scouting services rank these players is not keeping up with the times

  18. Dustylegnd says:

    dustrock: Well they haven’t come out to say McLellan is back. I suspect they await other teams letting go of first round disappointments,though not sure who is an obvious improvement.

    Would seem that any speculation on potential new assistant coaches is misguided if the Oil are not sure they will keep McLellan.

    I doubt many head coaches are comfortable with other people choosing his assistant coaches

  19. leadfarmer says:

    Casey Mittlestadt. Green bay gamblers 24 games played 30 points. Now top prospect in the world at least by some scouting services.
    2015 draft Eichel Hanifin Provorov Werenski Connor, White, Boeser, Roslovic. First round pick
    USHL or USHL under 18 development team players

    How is this league still getting overlooked

  20. Jaxon says:

    Regarding Barzal,

    It is definitely possible that teams looked at his 5-on-5 Primary Pts / minute and didn’t see him measuring up. He wasn’t even in the top 10 in the WHL. This is the Expected Age/Era Adjusted 5-on-5 Primary Pts Top 6 Median TOI WHL Equivalency:

    WHL 2015 Eligible Players:
    Jansen Harkins 22.240
    Nick Merkley 21.366
    Paul Bittner 20.179
    Jesse Gabrielle 19.936
    Tyler Soy 19.843
    Braylon Shmyr 19.558
    Austin Wagner 18.412
    Brayden Burke 18.020
    Brad Morrison 17.862
    Jake DeBrusk 17.546
    Mathew Barzal 17.410

    Other Draft Age Reference #s
    Nicolas Petan 29.180
    Oliver Bjorkstrand 28.844
    Evander Kane 27.806
    Devin Setoguchi 26.738
    Tyler Ennis 25.774
    Leon Draisaitl 25.660*
    Chase De Leo 25.114
    Jordan Eberle 24.860x
    Sven BArtschi 24.835
    Michael Grabner 24.674
    Peter Mueller 24.632
    Jayce Hawryluk 24.598
    Brett Connolly 24.404
    Brendan Gallagher 24.155
    Mark Stone 24.132
    Cody Glass 24.091
    Nino Niederreiter 23.749
    Kailer Yamamoto 23.601*
    Brayden Schenn 23.115
    Ryan Johansen 22.341
    Ty Rattie 21.333*
    Sam Reinhart 20.788
    Tyler Johnson 20.397
    Tyler Benson 20.338*
    Derek Ryan 20.164
    Curtis Lazar 19.504
    Greg Chase 18.930
    Henrik Samuelsson 18.747
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 18.510 #1
    Max Reinhart 18.191
    Sam Steel 18.174
    Mitchell Moroz 18.165
    Kyle Beach 18.060
    Jake DeBrusk 17.546
    Jake Leschyshyn 17.545
    Nolan Patrick 17.421 #2
    Mathew Barzal 17.410*****
    Ty Ronning 17.276
    Carter Ashton 17.265
    Brett Howden 17.088
    Michael Ferland 17.088
    Jackson Houck 16.843
    Mitchell Callahan 16.196*
    Curtis Hamilton 15.478

    So, basically, the numbers can’t tell the whole story, but they could have made someone hesitant about picking him up too early. There are big hits and big misses in his range of production. While not predictive, 5-on-5 Primary per TOI is a good tool for potential repeated production.

  21. Dustylegnd says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Woodguy, I am curious about your opinion on McLellan, he had success as an assistant in Detroit, and won a lot in SJ, he turned the corner with the Oilers in 2016-2017 and then suffered a big regression on the back of BAD tending, injured D and an erosion of scoring talent thanks to Chia’s moves and too much faith in young College players

    Was Mclellan ever a better than average coach, or did he enjoy the slip stream of Babcock and Peters in Detroit and the benefit of a stacked roster in SJ ?

    Pros

    Stanley cup winner as an assistant to Babcock

    2015 World Sr championship winner

    Took the young gun team on a deep run at the World Cup

    Took Edmonton to the 2nd round 2017 NHL playoffs

    Cons

    Had the talent to win the cup with SJ in the Heavy Hockey Era but failed to make the big dance

    Missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years with the Oil

    What is Mclellan at the end of the day?

  22. Dustylegnd says:

    leadfarmer:
    Casey Mittlestadt.Green bay gamblers 24 games played 30 points.Now top prospect in the world at least by some scouting services.
    2015 draft Eichel Hanifin Provorov Werenski Connor, White, Boeser, Roslovic. First round pick
    USHL or USHL under 18 development team players

    How is this league still getting overlooked

    I saw my 1st USHL game in 1996, Omaha Lancers, I was thoroughly impressed with the talent level even back then…I had it pegged as better than the BCJHL/AJHL but well below the WHL….today the USHL is clearly a league very close to the WHL now…only lacking the same depth but with impressive elite talent

    You make a very astute observation on the success of these USHL players from recent NHL drafts, the Oilers rarely tap this league in the amateur draft …….I think your observations are beyond astute

  23. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Long time Lowetide poster Murat Ates (posted under “Showerhead”) is now the Winnipeg Jets beat writer for The Athletic.

    He’s down asking questions of the coaches and players and his stuff this year has been second to none.

    I strongly recommend reading his stuff (especially on the PK) this year.

    His piece today is just fantastic: https://theathletic.com/331601/2018/04/27/josh-morrissey-on-why-winnipegs-forecheck-works-and-preparing-for-nashvilles-versatility/

    He takes quotes from Maurice and from an interview with Josh Morrissey and marries it with excellent explanations and video to show WPG’s forecheck tactics (with emphasis on the F3 playing high to cover) and how it might change/work vs NSH and their tactics.

    For me, this is what I’ve been dying to read since I became a hockey fan.

    A hockey journalist who talks to the coaches and players about hockey and helps explain what’s going on to the fans.

    No questions about feelings, or leadership or emotions. Just hockey.

    Seems like Maurice and the team have warmed to Showerhead as well. I’ve read post game pressers reports where Maurice appreciates the quality of questions and almost talks to Showerhead as an equal.

    Must be breath of fresh air for the players and coaches too.

    There is a long way to go, but we’ve come a long way from the President of the PHWA boldly writing that heavily sheltered soft minute VAN C Hodgson had taken away Tough Minute 80% Dzone FO C Maholtra’s job because Hodgson had scored some goals.

    Its a long way from watching hockey to watching with an understanding of what each team is actually trying to do besides chase a puck.

    The more writers we have who understand what they’re watching and educating the fan base, the better off we all are.

    Well done Showerhead!!!

  24. jtblack says:

    Drafting a Bouchard or a Merkley or a Smith would be a departure from previous CHL selections.****

    LT – This site has Shown that a D man that delivers OK or limited offense in his draft year, will always struggle to score at the NHL Level. The only D men the Oilers should draft are those with a Farmers chance of becoming Duncan Keith There are a few on your list, none more Intrigiiung than Calen Addison. You want Offense that translates to the next Level? He has it.

    RECAP of why Addison would be great 2nd Round target.
    WHL BANTAM DRAFT – taken 2nd Behind Ty Smith. Addison led the Manitoba Bantam AAA League in scoring Unheard of for a D man.
    He had the same Pts as Smith as a 16 yr old (33 to 32).
    Draft yr he had 65 pts (Smith 73)
    Playoffs Smith had 7 pts in 7 gms. Addison has 18 in 14 gms.

    If Smith is your #4, Addison cant be that far behind?

  25. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Long time Lowetide poster Murat Ates (posted under “Showerhead”) is now the Winnipeg Jets beat writer for The Athletic.

    He’s down asking questions of the coaches and players and his stuff this year has been second to none.

    I strongly recommend reading his stuff (especially on the PK) this year.

    His piece today is just fantastic: https://theathletic.com/331601/2018/04/27/josh-morrissey-on-why-winnipegs-forecheck-works-and-preparing-for-nashvilles-versatility/

    He takes quotes from Maurice and from an interview with Josh Morrissey and marries it with excellent explanations and video to show WPG’s forecheck tactics (with emphasis on the F3 playing high to cover) and how it might change/work vs NSH and their tactics.

    For me, this is what I’ve been dying to read since I became a hockey fan.

    A hockey journalist who talks to the coaches and players about hockey and helps explain what’s going on to the fans.

    No questions about feelings, or leadership or emotions.Just hockey.

    Seems like Maurice and the team have warmed to Showerhead as well.I’ve read post game pressers reports where Maurice appreciates the quality of questions and almost talks to Showerhead as an equal.

    Must be breath of fresh air for the players and coaches too.

    There is a long way to go, but we’ve come a long way from the President of the PHWA boldly writing that heavily sheltered soft minute VAN C Hodgson had taken away Tough Minute 80% Dzone FO C Maholtra’s job because Hodgson had scored some goals.

    Its a long way from watching hockey to watching with an understanding of what each team is actually trying to do besides chase a puck.

    The more writers we have who understand what they’re watching and educating the fan base, the better off we all are.

    Well done Showerhead!!!

    Are you tired of hearing about Character, Culture and face Off wins? 😉

  26. Andy Dufresne says:

    TMac is no Babcock…..or is he??

    Here are some comments from Leafs fans:

    Can someone please, please ask Babcock why his team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end this season? The Redwings never played this way and I was hoping Babs was bringing that “puck possession” style with him to Toronto. Short passes, puck support, clean breakouts. I know personnel has a lot to do with it but it’s still very concerning that he wasn’t teaching this system to young team.

    I believe he couldn’t do it because the “D” he had proved to be very incapable of it.

    Babcock is as much to blame for game 7. It was apparent early on that Gardiner was struggling, yet he still played over 24 minutes. It was apparent early on that Dermott, Johnsson and Kapanen were playing well, but they played 8, 11 and 10 minutes respectively. When does the coach ever take flack for not icing the players who are actually going on any given night? Isn’t that Babcock’s job to identify who is playing well, who is playing poorly and make in game adjustments?

    If there ever was a year when the back-up should have played more than he did, it was this year. McElhinney played well and the Leafs had a full month of meaningless games at the end of the year where they could have rested Andersen. That’s entirely on Babcock.

    Any of this sound familiar?

  27. Oilman99 says:

    If only we had a crystal ball that could produce a perfect pick every time, here’s hoping. No team has perfect scouting as shown by LT. Let’s hope they can assemble a solid coaching team.

  28. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Woodguy, I am curious about your opinion on McLellan, he had success as an assistant in Detroit, and won a lot in SJ, he turned the corner with the Oilers in 2016-2017 and then suffered a big regression on the back of BAD tending, injured D and an erosion of scoring talent thanks to Chia’s moves and too much faith in young College players

    Was Mclellan ever a better than average coach, or did he enjoy the slip stream of Babcock and Peters in Detroit and the benefit of a stacked roster in SJ ?

    Pros

    Stanley cup winner as an assistant to Babcock

    2015 World Sr championship winner

    Took the young gun team on a deep run at the World Cup

    Took Edmonton to the 2nd round 2017 NHL playoffs

    Cons

    Had the talent to win the cup with SJ in the Heavy Hockey Era but failed to make the big dance

    Missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years with the Oil

    What is Mclellan at the end of the day?

    I think RiversQ put it best about McLellan:

    “He’s just a guy”

    Nothing special as a coach, not horrible either.

    His sins (too much line shuffling, trusting vets over kids who are better) are the same of most coaches who have been around a while.

    He didn’t move the needle too much from where Wilson had SJS when he took over.

    Wilson’s last two years: 51 wins, 49 wins.
    Todd’s wins as SJS coach first 6 years: 53, 51, 48, 43 50 (pro-rated), 51

    The fact that they missed the playoffs his last year and made the Cup final the first year without him may speak to his ability vis a vis DeBoer’s, but probably not as much as we all think.

    He was probably too long at the fair there. Had some good teams and shitty luck at times (injury wise)

    He overplayed his top 6 there too and rarely developed a bottom 6 that could out-score (which all the best teams have these days and EDM doesn’t have)

    I think he deflects blame too much onto the players in his post game even if they deserve it. Players need a coach to have their back.

    To sum up: He’s probably ok, but I don’t think he’s good.

    The game may have passed him by a bit too, but I’m not sure about that.

  29. Andy Dufresne says:

    Dustylegnd,

    TMac is no Babcock…..or is he??

    Here are some comments from Leafs fans:

    “Can someone please, please ask Babcock why his team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end this season? The Redwings never played this way and I was hoping Babs was bringing that “puck possession” style with him to Toronto. Short passes, puck support, clean breakouts. I know personnel has a lot to do with it but it’s still very concerning that he wasn’t teaching this system to young team.

    I believe he couldn’t do it because the “D” he had proved to be very incapable of it.”

    “Babcock is as much to blame for game 7. It was apparent early on that Gardiner was struggling, yet he still played over 24 minutes. It was apparent early on that Dermott, Johnsson and Kapanen were playing well, but they played 8, 11 and 10 minutes respectively. When does the coach ever take flack for not icing the players who are actually going on any given night? Isn’t that Babcock’s job to identify who is playing well, who is playing poorly and make in game adjustments?”

    “If there ever was a year when the back-up should have played more than he did, it was this year. McElhinney played well and the Leafs had a full month of meaningless games at the end of the year where they could have rested Andersen. That’s entirely on Babcock.”

    Any of this sound familiar?

  30. barry.moore23 says:

    Mr Rickithebear,

    Godspeed. May the forces of good in the universe (and there is a lot of it) be with you and yours. I don’t know you but you are one of us. Peace.

    B

  31. jtblack says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Woodguy, I am curious about your opinion on McLellan, he had success as an assistant in Detroit, and won a lot in SJ, he turned the corner with the Oilers in 2016-2017 and then suffered a big regression on the back of BAD tending, injured D and an erosion of scoring talent thanks to Chia’s moves and too much faith in young College players

    Was Mclellan ever a better than average coach, or did he enjoy the slip stream of Babcock and Peters in Detroit and the benefit of a stacked roster in SJ ?

    Pros

    Stanley cup winner as an assistant to Babcock

    2015 World Sr championship winner

    Took the young gun team on a deep run at the World Cup

    Took Edmonton to the 2nd round 2017 NHL playoffs

    Cons

    Had the talent to win the cup with SJ in the Heavy Hockey Era but failed to make the big dance

    Missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years with the Oil

    What is Mclellan at the end of the day?

    I am interested to hear this Answer

  32. Yeti says:

    pts2pndr: How does leaving Todd McLellan as head coach fix the obvious disconnect between the GM and coach that was so apparent last year? This is like leaving your winter tires on over the summer and puting two new winter spares in the trunk.

    Shit. I knew there was something I’d forgotten to do.

  33. Andy Dufresne says:

    Burkie fired by Flames. Going to be a commentator again…..LOVE Burke as a commentator.

  34. Dustylegnd says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Interesting isn’t it, puck possession is infinitely easier with Nick Lidstrom playing 25 plus mins a night

    Great coaches have deep rosters, the leafs are not deep, especially on the back end

    Gerrard Galant is now a new school coach, super successful, why? best description I have heard is he has 4 2nd lines…..the thing I can’t understand is how they keep winning with a very average D

    Depth takes away the temptation of over relying on a few players that coaches inherently trust

  35. Scungilli Slushy says:

    dustrock:
    What’s Gulutzan’s strength as a coach?

    Seems a bit strange to me for our rival to fire him because of a disappointing season, only for an even more disappointing team to have him move 2 hours up the QE2 for an assistant job.

    Like, how wide is the circle of options they’re looking at?West to Jasper and East to Saskatoon?

    My concern as well. Both rumoured guys are buddies. That should really refresh the gene pool.

    The Oilers need to make sure they are progressive now, while the core is young and set them off in the right direction that doesn’t need to change in a year or three.

    I am all for structured, disciplined play. To me that doesn’t have to look like the lock down controlled grinding game that worked when the west cost thug teams could cheat enough to clamp other teams down.

    I worry that McLellan’s systems are a little out of step and could be stifling offense. We’ve seen it time and again recently with other teams. The teams that are doing well aren’t cycle teams. They actually remind me of the 80’s Oilers.

    We are seeing in these playoffs that won’t work if you can’t obstruct and mug skilled players.

    HIgh pace, fast skating and constant puck pressure in all 3 zones. Of course the play goes to the corners but they are moving it quickly to players net front, opposite side or back to the D. The Knights and Pens aren’t executing or even passing cleanly all the time, but they take time away with pressure so the other team has a really hard time setting anything up.

    Vegas as a group has the best sticks I’ve seen in ages, they disrupt so many plays it’s really impressive, dominant in possession battles. I see that, the relentless pressure and the good version of Fleury as what’s driving their success.

  36. leadfarmer says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Dustylegnd,

    TMac is no Babcock…..or is he??

    Here are some comments from Leafs fans:

    “Can someone please, please ask Babcock why his team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end this season? The Redwings never played this way and I was hoping Babs was bringing that “puck possession” style with him to Toronto. Short passes, puck support, clean breakouts. I know personnel has a lot to do with it but it’s still very concerning that he wasn’t teaching this system to young team.

    I believe he couldn’t do it because the “D” he had proved to be very incapable of it.”

    “Babcock is as much to blame for game 7. It was apparent early on that Gardiner was struggling, yet he still played over 24 minutes. It was apparent early on that Dermott, Johnsson and Kapanen were playing well, but they played 8, 11 and 10 minutes respectively. When does the coach ever take flack for not icing the players who are actually going on any given night? Isn’t that Babcock’s job to identify who is playing well, who is playing poorly and make in game adjustments?”

    “If there ever was a year when the back-up should have played more than he did, it was this year. McElhinney played well and the Leafs had a full month of meaningless games at the end of the year where they could have rested Andersen. That’s entirely on Babcock.”

    Any of this sound familiar?

    Yup blame the coach for getting them to game 7 and actually having a lead against a team they actually had no business being competitive against. The stretch pass was killing the Bruins until they adjusted their game to 2 hard forecheckers so the d didnt have time to complete the stretch pass.
    Also Andersen until the last game was a good part of the reason why they even got their far in that series. That Leafs D is nowhere near good enough to control the speed and physicallity of the Bruins. But of course Leafs fans are crying. Thats why they are so universally loved by all.

  37. Dustylegnd says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Only reason I can figure that Burkie is “stepping back” (a joke of a headline from Sports net) he lost a power struggle with Ken King, which blows my mind, but King has some sort of Voodoo relationship with Murray Edwards, who by all reports, is one of the most difficult people on the planet to work for

    This is great news for Flames haters, give King more power, soon they will have another new GM and continued disfunction

  38. Dustylegnd says:

    leadfarmer: Yup blame the coach for getting them to game 7 and actually having a lead against a team they actually had no business being competitive against.The stretch pass was killing the Bruins until they adjusted their game to 2 hard forecheckers so the d didnt have time to complete the stretch pass.
    Also Andersen until the last game was a good part of the reason why they even got their far in that series.But of course Leafs fans are crying.Thats why they are so universally loved by all.

    Great point about the adjustments the Bruins made re forecheck system, Bruce Cassidy has a dynamic approach to coaching, what a novel concept…..of course he probably should have adjusted a bit quicker to the stretch pass……but hot goalies are hell to deal with

  39. leadfarmer says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Interesting isn’t it, puck possession is infinitely easier with Nick Lidstrom playing 25 plus mins a night

    Great coaches have deep rosters, the leafs are not deep, especially on the back end

    Gerrard Galant is now a new school coach, super successful, why? best description I have heard is he has 4 2nd lines…..the thing I can’t understand is how they keep winning with a very average D

    Depth takes away the temptation of over relying on a few players that coaches inherently trust

    The name of the game is speed speed speed. Vegas plays a very fast game, and the guys that are not fast move the puck very quickly to guys that are fast. But I wonder how many people here had Vegas losing in the first round because of Corsi

  40. sliderule says:

    I don’t know about Yawney but Gulutzan is another players coach which is definitely not what oilers need.

    The oilers need a coach to be the bad cop.

    You come to practice hungover you sit

    You come to a game not focused and prepared you sit

    You show a pattern of this behaviour you go to Bakersfield

  41. slopitch says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Its an ok theory. I would think his best path to self preservation is to assemble a winning hockey team. In which case this would be plan D-F range.

    Where do you guys get the junior hockey TOI data? I wanna play around with the numbers a bit.

  42. leadfarmer says:

    Dustylegnd: I saw my 1st USHL game in 1996, Omaha Lancers, I was thoroughly impressed with the talent level even back then…I had it pegged as better than the BCJHL/AJHL but well below the WHL….today the USHL is clearly a league very close to the WHL now…only lacking the same depth but with impressive elite talent

    You make a very astute observation on the success of these USHL players from recent NHL drafts, the Oilers rarely tap this league in the amateur draft …….I think your observations are beyond astute

    I dont know what to attribute it to. High school hockey is king in Minnesota and has a decent following in Wisconsin and Michigan but the population isnt that high. I actually have a theory that injuries to these young growing bodies is a lot more harmful to their development than initially thought and having less games to play actually decreases injuries as they transition from USHL to NCAA. More time in practice and in the gym and less back to back to back games

  43. Richard S.S. says:

    It’s more likely Brian Burke stepped down as President well before anyone could fire him. It’s not going to be a good time for Hockey Staff in either Alberta city.

  44. Richard S.S. says:

    I’m getting more and more certain the Oilers will acquire OEL. Too many of the people i know, who disagree normally with most suggestions, are nodding their heads agreeing with this one. I’m not sure the Oilers can afford him, short term or long term.

  45. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Agreed….hes very much Babcockian…..old school coaches for sure.

    Ive seen this for so long, I really have little/no idea what the new style template even looks like.

    Are there coaches out there that arent in the mold of TMac/Babcock that have any kind of track record of sustained success beyond 3 years? preferably 5 years?

  46. leadfarmer says:

    Dustylegnd,

    Watch out for Jack Hughes from the USHL 16 yo in next years draft. You are going to hear that name for a long long times.
    I would be very happy if we drafted his brother Quinn in this years draft. PPG in USHL and 0.8 ppg in Michigan as a freshman. This kid is going to be a good one. Now if we could just find a time machine and have him start playing cricket before badminton or whatever it is that decides handedness after Woodguys phone.

    Thats why the talk of trading the pick in this draft is crazy. There is some really good defenseman and someone is going to drop

  47. leadfarmer says:

    Richard S.S.:
    I’m getting more and more certain the Oilers will acquire OEL.Too many of the people i know, who disagree normally with most suggestions, are nodding their heads agreeing with this one. I’m not sure the Oilers can afford him, short term or long term.

    But our Leftorium has been getting dangerously thin.

  48. Andy Dufresne says:

    Richard S.S.:
    I’m getting more and more certain the Oilers will acquire OEL.Too many of the people i know, who disagree normally with most suggestions, are nodding their heads agreeing with this one. I’m not sure the Oilers can afford him, short term or long term.

    Its got to be one of the top 3 considerations at this point.

    1) PAY for a legit #1 Offensive defensman OEL type Cost Kelfbom and 9th pick

    2) Trade for legit 2nd pair RHD offenisve defenseman Barrie type ( Cost Klefbom…..and a prospect?))

    3) Trade for a Stop Gap 2RHD ( Faulk type ) Cost Kassian, Benning and a 2nd

  49. Andy Dufresne says:

    sliderule:
    I don’t know about Yawney but Gulutzan is another players coach which is definitely not what oilers need.

    The oilers need a coach to be the bad cop.

    You come to practice hungover you sit

    You come to a game not focused and prepared you sit

    You show a pattern of this behaviour you go to Bakersfield

    Havent you heard…..there is no more carrot and stick motivation in professional sports ….its all carrot now . Or so Ive been told……(forcefully)

  50. Andy Dufresne says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Only reason I can figure that Burkie is “stepping back” (a joke of a headline from Sports net) he lost a power struggle with Ken King, which blows my mind, but King has some sort of Voodoo relationship with Murray Edwards, who by all reports, is one of the most difficult people on the planet to work for

    This is great news for Flames haters, give King more power, soon they will have another new GM and continued disfunction

    Some of it may have to do with all the politics that occured around the attempt to secure funding/land for a new arena?

  51. ArmchairGM says:

    leadfarmer:
    Casey Mittlestadt.Green bay gamblers 24 games played 30 points.Now top prospect in the world at least by some scouting services.
    2015 draft Eichel Hanifin Provorov Werenski Connor, White, Boeser, Roslovic. First round pick
    USHL or USHL under 18 development team players

    How is this league still getting overlooked

    Good point. I’ve always wondered where to slot the USHL and USDP players, and why there aren’t NHLE’s for this league. Also, NHLE’s should be developed for J20 SWE and MHL – some very good 17-year-olds in these leagues.

  52. Andy Dufresne says:

    Oilman99:
    If only we had a crystal ball that could produce a perfect pick every time, here’s hoping. No team has perfect scouting as shown by LT. Let’s hope they can assemble a solid coaching team.

    I heard there was one guy in here who missed the Crystal Ball sale at Costco……nice to meet you.

  53. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    sliderule:
    I don’t know about Yawney but Gulutzan is another players coach which is definitely not what oilers need.

    The oilers need a coach to be the bad cop.

    You come to practice hungover you sit

    You come to a game not focused and prepared you sit

    You show a pattern of this behaviour you go to Bakersfield

    Interesting.

    I heard that one of the player complaints this year was that there was no “good cop” on the coaching staff.

    McLellan went to the whip (bag skate) 3 or 4 games in last year.

  54. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    And Gulutzan is most famous for blowing his stack at players, isn’t he? (Head’s up!)

    No way for me to know but I might guess Pontus might have a thing or two to say about good cops.

  55. Side says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Interesting.

    I heard that one of the player complaints this year was that there was no “good cop” on the coaching staff.

    McLellan went to the whip (bag skate) 3 or 4 games in last year.

    This is the impression I was under as well. Todd is more of a tougher coach (and from what we’ve seen in media avails he’s not exactly standing up for his players a lot), and Gul is more of a player coach. From what I have read/heard, the players really liked Gul he just couldn’t get the job done.

  56. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Agreed….hes very much Babcockian…..old school coaches for sure.

    Ive seen this for so long, I really have little/no idea what the new style template even looks like.

    Are there coaches out there that arent in the mold of TMac/Babcock that have any kind of track record of sustained success beyond 3 years?preferably 5 years?

    DeBohr seems to have re-invented himself and Laviolette never had to re-invent himself.

    Sullivan is “new school” and Maurice was kinda always that way but seems to be better at stopping doing the things that don’t work.

    Gallant is the same way.

    Pressure, pressure, pressure, move the puck, move the puck, move the puck.

    McLellan’s SJS team played that way so maybe he just doesn’t have the horses here and is doing the best with what he has?

    The man defensive system is designed for high pressure.

    The EDM players are not good at it.

    I think they are mostly not good at it because the F’s miss their assignments too often.

    When they do it makes the Dmen look terrible because they are chasing pucks and puck carriers high leaving odd man situations down low.

    Neither 97 or 29 are particularly good or “heady” in their Dzone, but both are still pretty young too.

    18 and 16 are young as well, which is never good for “Dzone read and react instincts”

    This was one of the reasons I beat the “RNH on McDavid’s wing” thing in October last year.

    So to sum up:

    Maybe McLellan is fine as coach but needs to adapt his systems to his players more?

    I dunno for sure.

  57. sliderule says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Interesting.

    I heard that one of the player complaints this year was that there was no “good cop” on the coaching staff.

    McLellan went to the whip (bag skate) 3 or 4 games in last year.

    The oiler home record seems to scream to me that the team was not prepared to play.It wasn’t just the won loss it was the blowouts and games were they looked uninterested.
    I haven’t checked back on scores but I don’t remember the road record being as bad at least from the blowout angle.An undisciplined team doesn’t have as much time to fool around on the road between travel and only having teammates to hang around with .
    In regard to bag skates an old coach I know and respect told me that the way to control behaviour is with ice time.There is nothing more embarrassing to players and especially young players is sitting on the end of the bench..

  58. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer,

    Thats why the talk of trading the pick in this draft is crazy. There is some really good defenseman and someone is going to drop

    Yup.

    Just hope they take the good one that drops.

    Seeing as Pete said “there’s a bunch of defensemen who we like” in regards to the draft, I have some……gord help me…….hope.

  59. godot10 says:

    Dustylegnd: Would seem that any speculation on potential new assistant coaches is misguided if the Oil are not sure they will keep McLellan.

    I doubt many head coaches are comfortable with other people choosing his assistant coaches

    I think management usually selects one assistant coach in most places. One for you, one for me, one for you. I think Sheldon Keefe and D.J. Smith were entering the Maple Leafs organization regardless of what Babcock said. Whereas Hiller and Brewer were Babcock’s guys.

  60. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    sliderule: The oiler home record seems to scream to me that the team was not prepared to play.It wasn’t just the won loss it was the blowouts and games were they looked uninterested.
    I haven’t checked back on scores but I don’t remember the road record being as bad at least from the blowout angle.An undisciplined team doesn’t have as much time to fool around on the road between travel and only having teammates to hang around with .
    In regard to bag skates an old coach I know and respect told me that the way to control behaviour is with ice time.There is nothing more embarrassing to players and especially young players is sitting on the end of the bench..

    I agree with the ice time thing.

    Like taking until FUCKING FEBRUARY to change the PK set up, it took McLellan that long to put Lurch on the 3rd line and still didn’t put JP on PP2 often enough.

  61. jtblack says:

    With 179 Playoff Points, Sidney Crosby sits 14th All Time.

    If Pitt gets by Washington, it conceivable that Crosby will end this playoff year as #7 in All Time Playoff Points. To do that he requires 12 more points.

    If he does that, he will trail only the Boys on the Bus (Gretz, Mess, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey). & Jagr.

    Crosby will still be 30. I find this Amazing.

    Croz still has a decade ahead of him and could end up anywhere from 3rd to 5th All Time.

    #GREATNESS #LEGEND

    EDIT: With 7 points he will move into 10th All Time, passing OK players like Yzerman, Trottier & Lidstrom

  62. godot10 says:

    Jaxon:
    Regarding Barzal,

    It is definitely possible that teams looked at his 5-on-5 Primary Pts / minute and didn’t see him measuring up. He wasn’t even in the top 10 in the WHL. This is the Expected Age/Era Adjusted 5-on-5 Primary Pts Top 6 Median TOI WHL Equivalency:

    WHL 2015 Eligible Players:
    Jansen Harkins22.240
    Nick Merkley21.366
    Paul Bittner20.179
    Jesse Gabrielle19.936
    Tyler Soy19.843
    Braylon Shmyr19.558
    Austin Wagner18.412
    Brayden Burke18.020
    Brad Morrison17.862
    Jake DeBrusk17.546
    Mathew Barzal17.410

    Other Draft Age Reference #s
    Nicolas Petan29.180
    Oliver Bjorkstrand28.844
    Evander Kane27.806
    Devin Setoguchi26.738
    Tyler Ennis25.774
    LeonDraisaitl25.660*
    Chase De Leo25.114
    Jordan Eberle24.860x
    Sven BArtschi24.835
    Michael Grabner24.674
    Peter Mueller24.632
    Jayce Hawryluk24.598
    Brett Connolly24.404
    BrendanGallagher24.155
    Mark Stone24.132
    Cody Glass24.091
    Nino Niederreiter23.749
    Kailer Yamamoto23.601*
    Brayden Schenn23.115
    Ryan Johansen22.341
    Ty Rattie21.333*
    Sam Reinhart20.788
    Tyler Johnson20.397
    Tyler Benson20.338*
    Derek Ryan20.164
    Curtis Lazar19.504
    Greg Chase18.930
    Henrik Samuelsson18.747
    RyanNugent-Hopkins18.510 #1
    Max Reinhart18.191
    Sam Steel18.174
    Mitchell Moroz18.165
    Kyle Beach18.060
    Jake DeBrusk17.546
    Jake Leschyshyn17.545
    Nolan Patrick17.421 #2
    Mathew Barzal17.410*****
    Ty Ronning17.276
    Carter Ashton17.265
    Brett Howden17.088
    Michael Ferland17.088
    Jackson Houck16.843
    Mitchell Callahan16.196*
    Curtis Hamilton15.478

    So, basically, the numbers can’t tell the whole story, but they could have made someone hesitant about picking him up too early. There are big hits and big misses in his range of production. While not predictive, 5-on-5 Primary per TOI is a good tool for potential repeated production.

    Barzal had injury issues which could potentially affect this number. Quality of teammates matters to some extent also.

  63. GBandQ says:

    Hot off the press:

    @EdmontonOilers
    3m3 minutes ago
    Todd McLellan will return as Head Coach of the #Oilers for the 2018-19 season, while Jim Johnson & Ian Herbers have been relieved of their coaching duties.

    @EdmontonOilers
    3m3 minutes ago
    Jay Woodcroft has been named Head Coach of the #Oilers @TheAHL affiliate @Condors, while Gerry Fleming & Tony Borgford have been relieved of their coaching duties with Bakersfield.

  64. godot10 says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Woodguy, I am curious about your opinion on McLellan, he had success as an assistant in Detroit, and won a lot in SJ, he turned the corner with the Oilers in 2016-2017 and then suffered a big regression on the back of BAD tending, injured D and an erosion of scoring talent thanks to Chia’s moves and too much faith in young College players

    Was Mclellan ever a better than average coach, or did he enjoy the slip stream of Babcock and Peters in Detroit and the benefit of a stacked roster in SJ ?

    Pros

    Stanley cup winner as an assistant to Babcock

    2015 World Sr championship winner

    Took the young gun team on a deep run at the World Cup

    Took Edmonton to the 2nd round 2017 NHL playoffs

    Cons

    Had the talent to win the cup with SJ in the Heavy Hockey Era but failed to make the big dance

    Missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years with the Oil

    What is Mclellan at the end of the day?

    He did NOT take the young gun team at the World Cup to a deep run. They failed to make the playoff round (partly due to boneheaded coaching in the last half of their opening round game).

  65. digger50 says:

    sliderule:
    I don’t know about Yawney but Gulutzan is another players coach which is definitely not what oilers need.

    The oilers need a coach to be the bad cop.

    You come to practice hungover you sit

    You come to a game not focused and prepared you sit

    You show a pattern of this behaviour you go to Bakersfield

    You mean exactly like Tmac?

    I’m not ready with my opening roster, but we did poorly so bag skate.

    We are losing so throw players under the bus, starting with McDavid

    I think when dealing with a young team a players coach is what you need in order to communicate expectations.
    A hard ass coach doesn’t teach. He expects, without providing the e pectation.

  66. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I think RiversQ put it best about McLellan:

    “He’s just a guy”

    Nothing special as a coach, not horrible either.

    #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach

    I think I said it first.

  67. jtblack says:

    godot10,

    Primary Points heavily favor Goal Scorers. So you will find play makers like Barzal will not have as favorable “5×5 Primary”. That stat does tell a story, but only part of it.

    I would like to see who Leads in “NON” primary points and you might find its the most creative forwards.

  68. digger50 says:

    I’m not impressed with this patchwork of coaches.

    If we start fresh, the players start fresh.

    This patchwork implies a last chance for Tmac and a chaos of choices to “try” if it doesn’t work. So we are saying instead of a new head coach we want, it’s Gulutzan by Christmas?

    Another gamble.

  69. godot10 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Dustylegnd,

    TMac is no Babcock…..or is he??

    Here are some comments from Leafs fans:

    “Can someone please, please ask Babcock why his team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end this season? The Redwings never played this way and I was hoping Babs was bringing that “puck possession” style with him to Toronto. Short passes, puck support, clean breakouts. I know personnel has a lot to do with it but it’s still very concerning that he wasn’t teaching this system to young team.

    I believe he couldn’t do it because the “D” he had proved to be very incapable of it.”

    “Babcock is as much to blame for game 7. It was apparent early on that Gardiner was struggling, yet he still played over 24 minutes. It was apparent early on that Dermott, Johnsson and Kapanen were playing well, but they played 8, 11 and 10 minutes respectively. When does the coach ever take flack for not icing the players who are actually going on any given night? Isn’t that Babcock’s job to identify who is playing well, who is playing poorly and make in game adjustments?”

    “If there ever was a year when the back-up should have played more than he did, it was this year. McElhinney played well and the Leafs had a full month of meaningless games at the end of the year where they could have rested Andersen. That’s entirely on Babcock.”

    Any of this sound familiar?

    Babcock has a lousy defense, and has been making due with a patchwork defense because management was unwilling to unload elite forward talent for mediocre defensive talent.

    McLellan has his own handpicked defense built on offloading elite offensive talent for good to mediocre D. i.e. Hall for Larsson. Yakupov and Eberle for short term and long term money for Russell.

    Now that the Leafs know where they are, they are likely to make significant moves for D. Babcock did not completely waste two seasons in Toronto like McLellan has wasted in Edmonton.

  70. godot10 says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Interesting isn’t it, puck possession is infinitely easier with Nick Lidstrom playing 25 plus mins a night

    Great coaches have deep rosters, the leafs are not deep, especially on the back end

    Gerrard Galant is now a new school coach, super successful, why? best description I have heard is he has 4 2nd lines…..the thing I can’t understand is how they keep winning with a very average D

    Depth takes away the temptation of over relying on a few players that coaches inherently trust

    Theodore isn’t average. Schmidt isn’t average. McPhee took advantage of one team with too many NMC’s to get one (Washington), and a team with money issues and too many players they didn’t want to expose (Anaheim) to get the other.

  71. godot10 says:

    Richard S.S.:
    I’m getting more and more certain the Oilers will acquire OEL.Too many of the people i know, who disagree normally with most suggestions, are nodding their heads agreeing with this one. I’m not sure the Oilers can afford him, short term or long term.

    Arizone is going to get a good long term cost-controlled D in Klefbom…and the Oilers are going to have to pay a slightly better older version $8.5 million a season.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    McLellan: As head coach, I take responsibility for the disappointing season.

    I wonder if the verbal that the coach hasn’t taken responsibility will still be propagated?

  73. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    digger50,

    – We don’t actually know who the assistant coaches are: just specualtions

    – But if after a process, and they hired what the Oil thinks are good coaches to compliment (replace?) Coach, and nary a OBC coach in there: that’s huge organizational progress IMO

    – This is the measured outcome. Sure hedging bets a little, but bringing in reinforcements, so there is a plan”B”

    – So much better than MacT skype human resources model…

    – If between now and the start of season, any of MacT, Lowe, Howson, Carriere, Sutter are replaced then we can have more faith in this process.

  74. jtblack says:

    godot10: Theodore isn’t average.Schmidt isn’t average.McPhee took advantage of one team with too many NMC’s to get one (Washington), and a team with money issues and too many players they didn’t want to expose (Anaheim) to get the other.

    Hindsight shows a few teams overvalued certain assets on their team they were so married to “Not” losing certain guys they were willing to “off load” someone else with a sweetener.

    Right now Vegas’ Top Line has 2 ex Florida Panthers on it.
    Their 2nd line has 2 ex Minnesota Wild on it.

    I bet in the next expansiin draft there will be very few side deals. GM’s will just live with losing a decent player off their Roster

  75. godot10 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Agreed….hes very much Babcockian…..old school coaches for sure.

    Ive seen this for so long, I really have little/no idea what the new style template even looks like.

    Are there coaches out there that arent in the mold of TMac/Babcock that have any kind of track record of sustained success beyond 3 years?preferably 5 years?

    McLellan and Babcock are not similar at all.

    Babcock uses his entire roster, limits minutes, changes his systems…McLellan does none of those thing. He has one system. He overplays a few guys. He has favourites and whipping boys.

  76. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Interesting.

    I heard that one of the player complaints this year was that there was no “good cop” on the coaching staff.

    McLellan went to the whip (bag skate) 3 or 4 games in last year.

    Pouliot and Eberle took all the lynchings the previous season, and the other guys could play without pressure. With Pouliot and Eberle, the old whipping boys, gone, the new whipping boys couldn’t hack taking the lynchings for the team.

  77. LMHF#1 says:

    This organization has become utterly amazing at putting intolerable pressure on everyone involved heading into a season. The next will probably be the worst to date for that.

    Almost no one succeeds in that situation. Either another year of garbage or a completely pointless first round exit likely ahead.

    Eff these guys.

  78. digger50 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McLellan: As head coach, I take responsibility for the disappointing season.

    I wonder if the verbal that the coach hasn’t taken responsibility will still be propagated?

    I feel there was a large variance between saying it and actually doing it. You

  79. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McLellan: As head coach, I take responsibility for the disappointing season.

    I wonder if the verbal that the coach hasn’t taken responsibility will still be propagated?

    I think taking responsibility means resigning, and not having your assistant coaches being sacrificed so that you can coach another day.

  80. RonnieB says:

    godot10: Arizone is going to get a good long term cost-controlled D in Klefbom…and the Oilers are going to have to pay a slightly better older version $8.5 million a season.

    At best, you’re only half right. Arizona would also have one of Bouchard, Boqvist, Dobson, Hughes, Wahlstrom, Smith or Tkachuk while the Oilers would have no assurance they would be able to keep OEL beyond 1 season.
    Trading for OEL before being able to sign him to a new contract would be foolish.

  81. Side says:

    godot10: McLellan and Babcock are not similar at all.

    Babcock uses his entire roster, limits minutes, changes his systems…McLellan does none of those thing.He has one system.He overplays a few guys.He has favourites and whipping boys.

    I thought you preferred McLellan over Babcock?

  82. digger50 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    digger50,

    – We don’t actually know who the assistant coaches are: just specualtions

    – But if after a process, and they hired what the Oil thinks are good coaches to compliment (replace?)Coach, and nary a OBC coach in there: that’s huge organizational progress IMO

    – This is the measured outcome.Sure hedging bets a little, but bringing in reinforcements, so there is a plan”B”

    – So much better than MacT skype human resources model…

    – If between now and the start of season, any of MacT, Lowe, Howson, Carriere, Sutter are replaced then we can have more faith in this process.

    These are fair points.

    You have to think about the egos at play here. Is Todd choosing assistants? No. His choices are moving out.

    Will incoming assistants play a support role? Or are they waiting for failure. Seems a lot of chaos could develop. I can understand the play to hedge your bets, but if you have to play that card do you really end up with the best coach? Or does the carousel continue?

    If the milk is sour, putting it back in the fridge does not fix it.

  83. The Trade Guy says:

    godot10: I think taking responsibility means resigning, and not having your assistant coaches being sacrificed so that you can coach another day.

    Man Godot, you’re ruthless!

  84. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    LMHF#1:
    This organization has become utterly amazing at putting intolerable pressure on everyone involved heading into a season. The next will probably be the worst to date for that.

    Almost no one succeeds in that situation. Either another year of garbage or a completely pointless first round exit likely ahead.

    Eff these guys.

    – Some of the “pressure points” you refer to:

    1) Rattie = Maroon
    2) Klef recover
    3) Sek recover
    4) Larsson recover
    5) Talbot: average
    6) Back-up: 20 games min and average
    7) Pool: winger for Drai (or Strome)
    8) Kailer: soft minutes with Strome?
    9) Lucic: 2nd line W, or 3rd line winger
    10) PP recover
    11) PK recover
    12) Less 0% sh% for 1st few months
    13) Less 1st shot goals
    14) This years’ “Joki” is not a joker garbage bin acquisition
    15) Nurse: improves
    16) Is RNH-CmD a real thing?
    17) Drai improves, and is 2C
    18) CmD be connering

    – So yeah, lots of pressure points I suppose. But what else can they do?

  85. godot10 says:

    So the Oilers are going to give a guy who hasn’t coached a game in his life anywhere, the job in Bakersfield, a role crucial to developing young players.

    Guys who want to coach are willing to ride the buses in the WHL and ECHL and AHL learning their craft, rather than living the high life in 4-star hotels and private team jets as an assistant coach in the NHL for over a decade.

  86. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    digger50:
    If the milk is sour, putting it back in the fridge does not fix it.

    – either the team wins next year, and the narrative will be: “coach has everyone in synch, made the right tweaks, change in style a little”

    – Or the team loses, and the knives will be out, and they have the next coach on staff: IMO

    – Coach doesn’t need to “be put on notice” formally. Practically, he (and team) knows the drill

    – I think its a well reasoned approach, a sign of maturation for the organization, whatever happens

  87. godot10 says:

    Side: I thought you preferred McLellan over Babcock?

    I preferred Nelson, and admitted I was wrong (within three months) that McLellan would be a preferable option to Babcock. I believed the hype and press clippings on McLellan (I had never watched a lot of San Jose.) But by December of the first season, three months of finally observing him closely, I asserted #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach. He was and is nothing like he was advertised.

  88. russ99 says:

    digger50:
    I’m not impressed with this patchwork of coaches.

    If we start fresh, the players start fresh.

    This patchwork implies a last chance for Tmac and a chaos of choices to “try” if it doesn’t work. So we are saying instead of a new head coach we want, it’s Gulutzan by Christmas?

    Another gamble.

    IMO, dumping structure and discipline with a young core is a way bigger recipe for disaster. We can’t have another dump a good coach (Renney) – overreach to appease the players (Krueger) – overreach to rein in players (Eakins) situation again.

    Last year was a bigger Chiarelli with MacT and Howson whispering in his ear problem than a McLellan problem.

  89. Side says:

    godot10: I preferred Nelson, and admitted I was wrong (within three months) that McLellan would be a preferable option to Babcock.I believed the hype and press clippings on McLellan (I had never watched a lot of San Jose.)But by December of the first season, three months of finally observing him closely, I asserted #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach.He was and is nothing like he was advertised.

    Gotcha.

  90. Cassandra says:

    There is something both ridiculous and unsavoury about firing the assistant coaches while keeping the head coach and general manager.

    This isn’t a measured response, it is people taking the fall in the name of public relations, rather than addressing the problems.

    If coaching is the problem, fire the head coach and assistants.
    If the players are the problem, fire the general manager.
    If both are the problem, fire everyone.
    If there is no problem, let the coach keep his guys.

    Those are the four, and the only four, reasonable options.

    Those who disagree aren’t being reasonable. They are going out of their way to defend their prejudices.

  91. russ99 says:

    Cassandra:
    There is something both ridiculous and unsavoury about firing the assistant coaches while keeping the head coach and general manager.

    This isn’t a measured response, it is people taking the fall in the name of public relations, rather than addressing the problems.

    If coaching is the problem, fire the head coach and assistants.
    If the players are the problem, fire the general manager.
    If both are the problem, fire everyone.
    If there is no problem, let the coach keep his guys.

    Those are the four, and the only four, reasonable options.

    Those who disagree aren’t being reasonable.They are going out of their way to defend their prejudices.

    Other teams do it all the time. This is silly.

  92. Cassandra says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – either the team wins next year, and the narrative will be: “coach has everyone in synch, made the right tweaks, change in style a little”

    – Or the team loses, and the knives will be out, and they have the next coach on staff: IMO

    – Coach doesn’t need to “be put on notice” formally. Practically, he (and team) knows the drill

    – I think its a well reasoned approach, a sign of maturation for the organization, whatever happens

    This is awful, even for you.

    If the team loses, the last thing they should do is hire Gulutzan or whomever, just because he is already here.

    What makes it awful is that you know this, and would be criticizing it if you thought you could use it as a hammer to hit the OBC.

    If they hire a new coach it should be someone from outside the organization. Either the next best young coach (the next Jon Cooper) or veteran coach with credentials (like Vignault).

    Hiring your associate coach is the worst idea possible.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    Dustylegnd,

    Watch out for Jack Hughes from the USHL 16 yo in next years draft.You are going to hear that name for a long long times.
    I would be very happy if we drafted his brother Quinn in this years draft.PPG in USHL and 0.8 ppg in Michigan as a freshman.This kid is going to be a good one.Now if we could just find a time machine and have him start playing cricket before badminton or whatever it is that decides handedness after Woodguys phone.

    Thats why the talk of trading the pick in this draft is crazy.There is some really good defenseman and someone is going to drop

    Hughes could be the guy that drops to 9. I watched three Michigan games after the Marody trade and my goodness he can skate and move the puck. Of course, the question is his defensive end of the game.

    Yup, Jack Huges in 2019 and Alexis Lafrenière in 2020 – some very very very high end teenage forwards are developing.

  94. Cassandra says:

    russ99: Other teams do it all the time.This is silly.

    Is this an argument? That NHL teams do stupid things on a daily basis is a known fact not something to emulate.

  95. russ99 says:

    Cassandra: This is awful, even for you.

    If the team loses, the last thing they should do is hire Gulutzan or whomever, just because he is already here.

    What makes it awful is that you know this, and would be criticizing it if you thought you could use it as a hammer to hit the OBC.

    If they hire a new coach it should be someone from outside the organization.Either the next best young coach (the next Jon Cooper) or veteran coach with credentials (like Vignault).

    Hiring your associate coach is the worst idea possible.

    I suspect that if this were necessary, the new GM would be hiring his own guy.

  96. russ99 says:

    Cassandra: Is this an argument?That NHL teams do stupid things on a daily basis is a known fact not something to emulate.

    Changing assistant coaches is a normal occurrence around the league. Depends on the hires and the situation if it’s dumb or not. There’s not so many absolutes in this game.

  97. Cassandra says:

    russ99: Changing assistant coaches is a normal occurrence around the league.Depends on the hires and the situation if it’s dumb or not. There’s not so many absolutes in this game.

    If the head coach wants to change his assistant coaches that is one thing. I am sure that happens.

    However, to tell the head coach he must fire his coaches is a different thing. You trust the guy enough to be in charge of everything that happens on the ice, but you don’t trust him enough to choose his own assistant coaches.

    If you don’t trust him with his own staff, you shouldn’t trust him with your team.

    This is obvious.

  98. krakman says:

    Cassandra:
    There is something both ridiculous and unsavoury about firing the assistant coaches while keeping the head coach and general manager.

    This isn’t a measured response, it is people taking the fall in the name of public relations, rather than addressing the problems.

    If coaching is the problem, fire the head coach and assistants.
    If the players are the problem, fire the general manager.
    If both are the problem, fire everyone.
    If there is no problem, let the coach keep his guys.

    Those are the four, and the only four, reasonable options.

    Those who disagree aren’t being reasonable.They are going out of their way to defend their prejudices.

    This is an excellent post and it should be done this way, but the biggest issue of this team is no leadership at the top.

    Katz put his trust in Nicholson to run the team and Nicholson is a snake oil salesman, a complete fraud as a hockey man.

  99. godot10 says:

    Cassandra: If the head coach wants to change his assistant coaches that is one thing.I am sure that happens.

    However, to tell the head coach he must fire his coaches is a different thing.You trust the guy enough to be in charge of everything that happens on the ice, but you don’t trust him enough to choose his own assistant coaches.

    If you don’t trust him with his own staff, you shouldn’t trust him with your team.

    This is obvious.

    Coaches rarely get to hire all their own assistants. Management typically chooses at least one assistant and has control of the AHL hires.

    Arguably one of mistakes when first hiring McLellan was letting him choose all of his own assistants.

    Toronto didn’t let Babcock have all of his own guys. Hunter and Dubas wanted DJ Smith and Sheldon Keefe in the organization.

  100. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach

    I think I said it first.

    You did sir.

  101. Doug McLachlan says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Interesting.

    I heard that one of the player complaints this year was that there was no “good cop” on the coaching staff.

    McLellan went to the whip (bag skate) 3 or 4 games in last year.

    This was my sense as well.

    If Gulutzan and Yawney can be the safety valve to let off some steam and facilitate communication up and down, then they could both provide some value beyond the x’s and o’s.

  102. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Cassandra,

    – Either the fired the coach, or they didn’t

    – They chose not to, but with extreme prejudice. I think this was the right approach. From an organizational behaviour perspective,

    – Even though I didn’t rate Kruger, I thought they should have brought in some other voices, for the sake of giving Kruger the opportunity to learn, grow improve, and have different viewpoints and experiences.

    – Anyway, this was the predicable outcome. I don’t see the fuss actually.

    – But Coach knows the drill

  103. Doug McLachlan says:

    The Bobfather has his pre-draft lottery top 15 out.

    https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

    Very interesting to note that Bouchard has solidified his top 5 status amongst Bob’s 10 scouts, with a couple having him in their top 4 and one his top 3.

    Are they undervaluing the advantage in age he has over the other d-men (non-Dahlin division) or are we collectively over compensating for it? OHLer, good size, noted shot, captain of a “pro-style” organization in London. Why are we so down on Bouchard here?

  104. Wolfpack says:

    Definitely an interesting dynamic in this organization between the GM and HC. I would like to sneak a peek at the two of them passing each other in the hall. Who would be the one to stick out his knee?

    With the special teams being what they were last year, changes had to be made. The home PK was the worst ever. If you are delivering the worst results in history at your job, I don’t care what your job is, you need to go. In fact, there should have been firings in-season to really send the right message.

    Pretty sure that TMac teams in San Jose were always near the top of the league powerplay-wise, so with a similar level of talent on the Oilers, what happened?

  105. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Arizone is going to get a good long term cost-controlled D in Klefbom…and the Oilers are going to have to pay a slightly better older version $8.5 million a season.

    Relative Team mate GF% (RelTGF%) last 4 years:

    This is an aggregate of WOWYs, not straight On/Off

    Player RelT GF%

    OLIVER.EKMAN-LARSSON 14/15 +9.21
    OLIVER.EKMAN-LARSSON 15/16 +5.58
    OLIVER.EKMAN-LARSSON 16/17 +1.67
    OLIVER.EKMAN-LARSSON 17/18 -0.77

    OSCAR.KLEFBOM 14/15 -3.96
    OSCAR.KLEFBOM 15/16 +2.70
    OSCAR.KLEFBOM 16/17 -0.85
    OSCAR.KLEFBOM 17/18 -3.56

    And for fun:

    ADAM.LARSSON 14/15 +2.31
    ADAM.LARSSON 15/16 +14.15
    ADAM.LARSSON 16/17 +5.91
    ADAM.LARSSON 17/18 +0.75

    OEL has been trending down, but I think a lot of that has to do with his parnters.

    14/15 – Michalek – his best partner (although Demers is close)
    15/16 – Murphy/Stone – dragging around 2 3rd pairing guys and *still* putting up positive numbers
    16/17 – Shenn/Murphy – see 15/16
    17/18 – Demers/Schenn/Goligoski/Hjarlmasson

    GF% last year with:

    Demers – 49.4%
    Schenn – 50.4%
    Goligoski – 0% (no shit, 0-7 in 126 minutes)
    Hjarlmasson – 28.7%

    I think he’s still elite and a pretty big upgrade on Klefbom

  106. Doug McLachlan says:

    Wolfpack:
    Definitely an interesting dynamic in this organization between the GM and HC. I would like to sneak a peek at the two of them passing each other in the hall. Who would be the one to stick out his knee?

    With the special teams being what they were last year, changes had to be made. The home PK was the worst ever. If you are delivering the worst results in history at your job, I don’t care what your job is, you need to go. In fact, there should have been firings in-season to really send the right message.

    Pretty sure that TMac teams in San Jose were always near the top of the league powerplay-wise, so with a similar level of talent on the Oilers, what happened?

    TMac’s Special Teams stats

    08-09 SJS 24.2% PP (3rd) 83.2% PK (5th)
    09-10 SJS 21.0% PP (4th) 85.0% PK (4th)
    10-11 SJS 23.5% PP (2nd) 79.4% PK (24th)
    11-12 SJS 21.1% PP (2nd) 76.9% (29th)
    12-13 SJS 20.1% PP (T-7th) 85.0% (6th)
    13-14 SJS 17.2% PP (20th) 84.9% PK (6th)
    14-15 SJS 21.7% PP (6th) 78.5% PK (25th)

  107. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    The Bobfather has his pre-draft lottery top 15 out.

    https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

    Very interesting to note that Bouchard has solidified his top 5 status amongst Bob’s 10 scouts, with a couple having him in their top 4 and one his top 3.

    Are they undervaluing the advantage in age he has over the other d-men (non-Dahlin division) or are we collectively over compensating for it?OHLer, good size, noted shot, captain of a “pro-style” organization in London.Why are we so down on Bouchard here?

    Thanks for that.

    Interesting couple of paragraphs:

    University of Michigan freshman defenceman Quinn Hughes dropped from No. 6 to No. 9.

    U.S. forward Oliver Wahlstrom moved up to No. 7 on the current rankings. He was No. 9 in January. Finnish forward Jesperi Kotkaniemi rounded out the TSN’s Draft Lottery Top 10.

    There are a couple of other notes worth mentioning on the makeup of the Top 10.

    There was almost nothing separating Boqvist, Wahlstrom and Dobson in the spots between six and eight. They appear to virtually interchangeable, based on voting results.,

    I think a really good Dman will be there when EDM picks if they pick 9th or 10th.

  108. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Doug McLachlan: TMac’s Special Teams stats

    08-09 SJS 24.2% PP (3rd) 83.2% PK (5th)
    09-10 SJS 21.0% PP (4th) 85.0% PK (4th)
    10-11 SJS 23.5% PP (2nd) 79.4% PK (24th)
    11-12 SJS 21.1% PP (2nd) 76.9% (29th)
    12-13 SJS 20.1% PP (T-7th) 85.0% (6th)
    13-14 SJS 17.2% PP (20th) 84.9% PK (6th)
    14-15 SJS 21.7% PP (6th) 78.5% PK (25th)

    Joe Thornton is a top 5 All Time PP QB.

    Maybe top 3.

  109. Richard S.S. says:

    When Todd was hired, it was known he was bringing Jay along. Oilers basically had a turnstile for Coaches and GMs to come and go for so long and too much regular turnover. Both Chiarelli and McLelland are just through their third year so neither of those people would be leaving. The PP and PK as well as other things failed badly costing the Oilers the Season. Jay Woodcroft is too bright not to keep and the AHL has been ignored too long. Everyone else was expendable.

  110. Rebilled says:

    I heard McLellan didn’t sleep with a news reporter in town so that’s why he’s staying.

    and his wife and Janet watch all the games together.

    Goilers!

  111. Wolfpack says:

    Doug McLachlan,

    Thanks Doug. So good-to-great on the PP and up and down on the PK while in SJ.

  112. digger50 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – either the team wins next year, and the narrative will be: “coach has everyone in synch, made the right tweaks, change in style a little”

    – Or the team loses, and the knives will be out, and they have the next coach on staff: IMO

    – Coach doesn’t need to “be put on notice” formally. Practically, he (and team) knows the drill

    – I think its a well reasoned approach, a sign of maturation for the organization, whatever happens

    On the surface maybe but to me

    It’s a sign of an organization that values stability, over the product they produce.

  113. jtblack says:

    I think TMac and his mew crew have to ramp up the pressure. I dont these last 8 teams doing reset after reset. If course it happens sometimes, but they are going North / South more often.

    A few times in game 7 when Toronto played dman catch, the puck ended up in the net.

    The Oilers have he horses to play Faster. its a coaching philosophy IMHO

  114. meanashell11 says:

    barry.moore23:
    Mr Rickithebear,

    Godspeed. May the forces of good in the universe (and there is a lot of it) be with you and yours. I don’t know you but you are one of us. Peace.

    B

    I have been thinking about what I could possibly say to Ricki. I can’t do the “thoughts and prayer” thing after all the gun violence down here in the States. You have nailed it for me! +1

    God Speed Ricki!

  115. meanashell11 says:

    Cassandra:
    There is something both ridiculous and unsavoury about firing the assistant coaches while keeping the head coach and general manager.

    This isn’t a measured response, it is people taking the fall in the name of public relations, rather than addressing the problems.

    If coaching is the problem, fire the head coach and assistants.
    If the players are the problem, fire the general manager.
    If both are the problem, fire everyone.
    If there is no problem, let the coach keep his guys.

    Those are the four, and the only four, reasonable options.

    Those who disagree aren’t being reasonable.They are going out of their way to defend their prejudices.

    I don’t think I have ever agreed with a word you have said.

    But I agree with this.

    Black swans!

  116. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack:
    I think TMac and his mew crew have to ramp up the pressure. I dont these last 8 teams doing reset after reset. If course it happens sometimes, but they are going North / South more often.

    A few times in game 7 when Toronto played dman catch, the puck ended up in the net.

    The Oilers have he horses to play Faster. its a coaching philosophy IMHO

    It’s also ability of the players to play faster.

    Quick decision making that is also quality decision making isn’t in abundance on the roster.

    Klef and Sekera are the only two Dmen who immediately spring to mind.

    I’ve seen Larsson do it too, but he defaults to Staoising too often.

    I wonder if that can be coached out of him?

  117. jtblack says:

    Brian Burke’s last 9 years as NHL team exec

    4 with Toronto, 5 with Calgary: 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff series victory, 3 coaches fired.

  118. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    The first 25 games of last season that the Coyotes played were so ungodly awful that you can dig out some truly amazing statistics.
    OEL is guilty of being a great player on a crappy team for years.

  119. Rondo says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    The Bobfather has his pre-draft lottery top 15 out.

    https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

    Very interesting to note that Bouchard has solidified his top 5 status amongst Bob’s 10 scouts, with a couple having him in their top 4 and one his top 3.

    Are they undervaluing the advantage in age he has over the other d-men (non-Dahlin division) or are we collectively over compensating for it?OHLer, good size, noted shot, captain of a “pro-style” organization in London.Why are we so down on Bouchard here?

    Wonder if Wahlstrom will fall like Tolvanen for being 1 dimensional.

  120. leadfarmer says:

    https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

    And there you go. #9 Quinn Hughes Serious talent. Lots of D. Not many forwards. Someone is going to reach for a forward too early. Keep that pick. (Yes I would be fine if we used it for a truly elite talent but I truly doubt Chia’s and the Brain Trust’s ability to locate that talent so I would rather just build through the draft)

  121. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    The first 25 games of last season that the Coyotes played were so ungodly awful that you can dig out some truly amazing statistics.
    OEL is guilty of being a great player on a crappy team for years.

    Agreed all points.

    They had the 6th best record in the NHL from Feb 1 on when everyone’s got healthy.

  122. Rondo says:

    Last years top 15 NHL Draft Rankings 2017

    https://www.tsn.ca/patrick-hischier-in-tight-race-for-no-1-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.736258

    Didn’t follow the script in the real Draft.

  123. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Rondo:
    Last years top 15 NHL DraftRankings 2017

    https://www.tsn.ca/patrick-hischier-in-tight-race-for-no-1-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.736258

    Didn’t follow the script in the real Draft.

    Never does

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    The Bobfather has his pre-draft lottery top 15 out.

    https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

    Very interesting to note that Bouchard has solidified his top 5 status amongst Bob’s 10 scouts, with a couple having him in their top 4 and one his top 3.

    I’m guessing the eastern-based TSN has a bit of a bias for the OHL and the London Knights.

  125. StixMalone says:

    jtblack:
    Brian Burke’s last 9 years as NHL team exec

    4 with Toronto, 5 with Calgary: 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff series victory, 3 coaches fired.

    And we think our team had problems….

  126. Rondo says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Never does

    Yup.
    Do you think Wahlstrom will fall like Tolvanen for being 1 dimensional?

  127. Cassandra says:

    This is shaping up to be a great draft to have a pick in the 7-10 spot. No big separation from 3-10, and a big separation right after.

    You would have to be a fool to trade this pick.

    This is bad news for Oiler fans. Though, in this case I am having a hard time really believing they would do another thing this dumb.

  128. dustrock says:

    If I have all of Hughes, Boqvist and Wahlstrom available at 9, I am going to have one hell of a time deciding.

    But man, Boqvist is almost 2019 eligible.

    I take Wahlstrom as the first non-Svechnikov forward.

    I have Hughes over Smith in terms of game breaking ability, but Smith is a steadier player.

    Last few years, I’ve had a pretty obvious target in the draft (Couturier, Drai, Chychrun/Sergachev) and this year I’m having a tough time deciding.

  129. godot10 says:

    The Oilers hired a coach for Bakersfield that has NO heading coaching experience. That is such an Oilery thing to do.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock:
    If I have all of Hughes, Boqvist and Wahlstrom available at 9, I am going to have one hell of a time deciding.

    But man, Boqvist is almost 2019 eligible.

    I take Wahlstrom as the first non-Svechnikov forward.

    I have Hughes over Smith in terms of game breaking ability, but Smith is a steadier player.

    Last few years, I’ve had a pretty obvious target in the draft (Couturier, Drai, Chychrun/Sergachev) and this year I’m having a tough time deciding.

    I can’t imagine those all three dropping to 9 (or even 2) but one of them should be there and that’s amazing – chances are its Hughes and he’d be third on that list for me (and I saw three Michigan games after the Marody trade, i’d be VERY happy with Hughes, I’ve just heard do much about Boquist and, from what I’ve seen, he’s exceptional).

    The fact that am amazing skater and puck mover (with a great shot) like Quinn Hughes is our “consolation price”.

  131. leadfarmer says:

    dustrock,

    Boqvist, wahlstrom, Hughes for me. Boqvist has a crazy upside.

  132. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10:
    The Oilers hired a coach for Bakersfield that has NO heading coaching experience.That is such an Oilery thing to do.

    – Craig’s on it

  133. Brantford Boy says:

    Doug McLachlan,

    My boy Noah… up to 8th… I was less nervous before with him at 11… biting fingernails… hope he’s still available…

  134. sliderule says:

    This is a great draft for oilers

    Several excellent D might be there.

    Wahlstrom may be gone but Farabee and Berggren will be there.

    Berggren will be the best

  135. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0: It’s also ability of the players to play faster.

    Quick decision making that is also quality decision making isn’t in abundance on the roster.

    Klef and Sekera are the only two Dmen who immediately spring to mind.

    I’ve seen Larsson do it too, but he defaults to Staoising too often.

    I wonder if that can be coached out of him?

    The reality is somewhere in the middle. It is a bit of both.

    BUT, I think we can all agree some coaches are better than others. I saw earlier you classified TMac as avg (a guy). I believe a different coach ould have this team play “Faster” with more pressure.

    VGS D pinch almost all the time and 1 joins the breakout from their end to help thru the neutral (and go all way to the net if opportunty presents itself). That is coaching.

    Its not as simple as that but there are better coaches out there FULL STOP

  136. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10:
    The Oilers hired a coach for Bakersfield that has NO heading coaching experience.That is such an Oilery thing to do.

    Well at least he did a poor job for the big club! It be hard to PP without Jumbo.

    Probably the bone to Todd.

  137. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I think RiversQ put it best about McLellan:

    “He’s just a guy”

    Nothing special as a coach, not horrible either.

    His sins (too much line shuffling, trusting vets over kids who are better) are the same of most coaches who have been around a while.

    He didn’t move the needle too much from where Wilson had SJS when he took over.

    Wilson’s last two years: 51 wins, 49 wins.
    Todd’s wins as SJS coach first 6 years: 53, 51, 48, 43 50 (pro-rated), 51

    The fact that they missed the playoffs his last year and made the Cup final the first year without him may speak to his ability vis a vis DeBoer’s, but probably not as much as we all think.

    He was probably too long at the fair there.Had some good teams and shitty luck at times (injury wise)

    He overplayed his top 6 there too and rarely developed a bottom 6 that could out-score (which all the best teams have these days and EDM doesn’t have)

    I think he deflects blame too much onto the players in his post game even if they deserve it.Players need a coach to have their back.

    To sum up: He’s probably ok, but I don’t think he’s good.

    The game may have passed him by a bit too, but I’m not sure about that.

    This is why I always respect your posts.they are common sense, thoughtful and I totally appeciate your honesty and math!

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    From various accounts, Jay W. has been good with the young players – Khaira went out of his way a number of months back to credit Jay with helping his development and his puck skills.

    I’m going to support Jay W. in his new role until/unless he proves not competent for it.

    He may excel.

  139. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    From various accounts, Jay W. has been good with the young players – Khaira went out of his way a number of months back to credit Jay with helping his development and his puck skills.

    I’m going to support Jay W. in his new role until/unless he proves not competent for it.

    He may excel.

    Might be good for everyone. It would have been a big change going from a veteran contender to a young team with world class players that are learning the ropes in the NHL.

  140. pts2pndr says:

    leadfarmer: But our Leftorium has been getting dangerously thin.

    Trying to get your handle next to definition of sarcasm in the dictionary are you? If so I think you win!

  141. pts2pndr says:

    leadfarmer: The name of the game is speed speed speed.Vegas plays a very fast game, and the guys that are not fast move the puck very quickly to guys that are fast.But I wonder how many people here had Vegas losing in the first round because of Corsi

    And the odds are always in the house’s favour!

  142. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    From various accounts, Jay W. has been good with the young players – Khaira went out of his way a number of months back to credit Jay with helping his development and his puck skills.

    I’m going to support Jay W. in his new role until/unless he proves not competent for it.

    He may excel.

    Great example for the young impressionable players about NOT having to pay your dues, and work your way up.

  143. pts2pndr says:

    sliderule:
    I don’t know about Yawney but Gulutzan is another players coach which is definitely not what oilers need.

    The oilers need a coach to be the bad cop.

    You come to practice hungover you sit

    You come to a game not focused and prepared you sit

    You show a pattern of this behaviour you go to Bakersfield

    New wave coaching is communication and boudaries. These young men have been professionaly coached since junior. Good cop bad cop is no last decade! Learn to communicate! Years of tradition unhampered by progress is not the way to go!

  144. Spooky Lynx says:

    godot10: Great example for the young impressionable players about NOT having to pay your dues, and work your way up.

    What, in your opinion, would be required of Woodcroft for him to have paid his dues? Genuinely curious.

  145. godot10 says:

    Spooky Lynx: What, in your opinion, would be required of Woodcroft for him to have paid his dues? Genuinely curious.

    Take a CHL or USHL or college or ECHL head coaching job.

    Tim Hunter went to Moose Jaw, for example. Rocky Thompson went to Sarnia(?), and his now half the way back up in the AHL as head coach of the Chicago Wolves.

  146. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Nobody can get it right all of the time. A giant step forward for the Oilers would be reasonable decisions.

    I was poking fun at Woodcroft and his failure, it is reasonable to clear out the farm, give Woodie a shot to grow and have a guy on the same page as McL training the future.

    There will be nepotism yet still there is at least a non previous player infusion of people it seems.

    I’m not sold on more familiars, but change was needed and it happened. Woo hoo?

  147. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    From various accounts, Jay W. has been good with the young players – Khaira went out of his way a number of months back to credit Jay with helping his development and his puck skills.

    I’m going to support Jay W. in his new role until/unless he proves not competent for it.

    He may excel.

    He may. After all he has 12 years experience coaching under his belt.

    I do have a couple of questions though. Why was Fleming let go? Was it poor performance or to make room for Woodcroft?

    Is Woodcroft being moved down to make sure that AHL prospects are played over vets? Is he being moved down to ensure the AHLers know the big club’s systems inside and out before they get their cups of java (or full-on promoted)?

    I’m not sure what’s going on with this move, but I agree it is not necessarily a bad thing.

  148. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    McLellan: As head coach, I take responsibility for the disappointing season.

    I wonder if the verbal that the coach hasn’t taken responsibility will still be propagated?

    At the end of the season with a provenial gun to his head! You now have a lame duck coach with no real credibility with the team. On a 1-10 scale of stupid this is off the chart!

  149. deardylan says:

    MVP McHART

    Is McDavid the most valuable to his team in the NHL?

    It looks like Hall, Kopitar and MacKinnon were judged to be more valuable. Do you agree?

    Wouldn’t McDavid have won easily if he could get his team into the 2018 playoffs?

    Is it logical to say “value” criteria between the top scorers in league/on your team is really about getting your team into the last 16?

    POSTMORTEM

    So who wins your vote for the “Hart-Less” trophy of the least valuable player in the Oilers organization (lowest performance and very good at getting them OUT of the playoffs).

    My top 3 votes goes to the:

    1) Special Team Coaches:

    Blame the assistant coaches or head coach who delegated this responsibility?

    2) Injured Players Mismanagement:

    Blame the Medical Team who didn’t speak out or veto the players being rushed back. Or whoever ignored their advice when they did speak out – Who is That?

    3) Not Securing Top 6-D in 2017 Off Season:

    Blame the defence coaches for not pushing for another D or was it GM who didn’t try to get one?

    Easy to do a post-mortem, blame game and make some reactive actions for #1 and #3 (get rid of coaches and GM) and some proactive action for #2 (objective medical checklist to ignore subjective decisions and give player extra time to heal)

    Postmortem-When season is over it is too late and the playoffs hope are dead. This blame game kills morale for upcoming season. We might forgive those who tress pass against us but we do not forget them.

    So how about trying out a Premortum. (before it is too late)

    PREMORTUM EXERCISE:

    To do this we fastfwd a year to now April 28, 2019 and with sadness the Oilers have missed the 2019 playoffs and end up in the draft lottery again (but they have already traded away their 1st pick in their hapless attempt to get into playoffs). We are maxed out in the salary cap-no spending money.

    Edmonton Fans Boycott the Team- Lowest Attendance in 40 years.
    McDavid requests a trade out of Edmonton.
    The Coach and GM have been fired.
    Owner is selling the team to the lowest bidder.

    What went so wrong. Why did we miss the playoff again in 2019? What went wrong 2018-2019?

    1. List all the reasons…

    2. And now return to this moment and think how can we proactively fix this in the offseason before it happens again. (Starting with the draft and Lowetides summer wish list)

  150. pts2pndr says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Two scenarios:

    1. Team performs and is contention for a plaoff spot ( all is ok )

    2. Team starts poorly and mcLellan is fired. There is unlikely time for new coach to turn the team around and onother year is down the tubes.

    I am not sure a 50-50 bet is a good one. No matter how you slice it as the coach you can deligate duties re power play or penalty kill to your assistants the RESPONSABILITY remains the coach’s!

  151. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Great example for the young impressionable players about NOT having to pay your dues, and work your way up.

    Yes, 10 years as an assistant coach is nothing, no dues paid at all.

    You do realize he’s goiing to coach in a lesser league, a bigger role (head vs. assistant) but he’s coached at the highest level of the game for 10 years – dues.

  152. Ryan says:

    3 zip Jets baby!

  153. Andy Dufresne says:

    godot10: Babcock has a lousy defense, and has been making due with a patchwork defense because management was unwilling to unload elite forward talent for mediocre defensive talent.

    McLellan has his own handpicked defense built on offloading elite offensive talent for good to mediocre D. i.e. Hall for Larsson. Yakupov and Eberle for short term and long term money for Russell.

    Now that the Leafs know where they are, they are likely to make significant moves for D. Babcock did not completely waste two seasons in Toronto like McLellan has wasted in Edmonton.

    Not according to Leafs fans.

    Go to their boards. Most common complaints are
    1) He doesnt use his roster effectively overplays some underplays others
    2) Favours vets over youth bigtime
    3) Doesnt make enough in game adjustments

    So you can run with your narrative…..Im just telling you how Leafs fans see it, I posted 5 or 6 cut a pastes from Leafs sites.

    As far as wasting years. Babcock has just as many years with the Leafs as TMac with the Oilers. TMac gets to round two and almost wins it. Babcock ZERO playoff series wins.

    Toronto fans in a state of confusion right now about what to do for next year. Mattthews entering final year of his ELC and not living up to expectations. Nylander a ghost in the playoffs. Andersson EXACTLY the player the Ducks traded away in favour of Gibbons, Cant win in playoffs. And Defense is a huge hole.

    Leafs Fans are pissed/sounding desperate.

  154. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, 10 years as an assistant coach is nothing, no dues paid at all.

    You do realize he’s goiing to coach in a lesser league, a bigger role (head vs. assistant) but he’s coached at the highest level of the game for 10 years – dues.

    Tim Hunter had far more experience than that. Went to the CHL.

  155. Andy Dufresne says:

    pts2pndr: New wave coaching is communication and boudaries. These young men have been professionaly coached since junior. Good cop bad cop is no last decade! Learn to communicate! Years of tradition unhampered by progress is not the way to go!

    Sliderule

    And there it is …….but wait….theres more……

  156. Andy Dufresne says:

    sliderule:
    This is a great draft for oilers

    Several excellent D might be there.

    Wahlstrom may be gone but Farabee and Berggren will be there.

    Berggren will be the best

    Not being a dick. Being honest. I got hyped about the draft possibilites a few times only to be disappointed.

    There is at least a 50/50 chance we dont make the pick.

    Something like Klefbom + the 9th for OEL or Ryan Ellis

    Not making a judgement as to whats right or wrong….just tempering my enthusiasm a bit

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Tim Hunter had far more experience than that.Went to the CHL.

    Why does that mean that has to be the route to a professional head coaching job?

    Just because it doesn’t follow your preferred path, doesn’t mean its not earned and doesn’t mean it a poor choice.

    I’m not saying that it won’t be a poor choice – none of us know but there are many reasons to think that it could just work.

  158. OriginalPouzar says:

    Andy Dufresne: Not being a dick. Being honest. I got hyped about the draft possibilites a few times only to be disappointed.

    There is at least a 50/50 chance we dont make the pick.

    Something like Klefbom + the 9th for OEL or Ryan Ellis

    Not making a judgement as to whats right or wrong….just tempering my enthusiasm a bit

    That trade for OEL simply cannot be made, not without the ability to have assurance that he’ll be an Oiler longer than one year – not to mention, after that one year, he’ll cost more than double what Klefbom will to the cap.

  159. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’m guessing the eastern-based TSN has a bit of a bias for the OHL and the London Knights.

    Big, Good Skater, Right Shot, Lead his team in Points, OHL. I dont think its bias so much as reflecting what NHL Gms and Scouts value.

  160. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar: That trade for OEL simply cannot be made, not without the ability to have assurance that he’ll be an Oiler longer than one year – not to mention, after that one year, he’ll cost more than double what Klefbom will to the cap.

    These things have a way of getting done that is not always strictly by the book. Both teams are out of the playoffs and free to discuss trades, contracts etc.

  161. sliderule says:

    Andy Dufresne: Not being a dick. Being honest. I got hyped about the draft possibilites a few times only to be disappointed.

    There is at least a 50/50 chance we dont make the pick.

    Something like Klefbom + the 9th for OEL or Ryan Ellis

    Not making a judgement as to whats right or wrong….just tempering my enthusiasm a bit

    We have traded a first round pick twice in last 15 years.
    Both times it was a disaster
    I can only assume they have learned their lesson

  162. Ryan says:

    sliderule: We have traded a first round pick twice in last 15years.
    Both times it was a disaster
    I can only assume they have learned their lesson

    The first round pick this year has already been traded.

  163. Ryan says:

    Man the NHL is so bush league.

    3 power plays to 0. Preds/Jets.

    Subban has gotten away with the ol can opener at least twice.

  164. sliderule says:

    pts2pndr: New wave coaching is communication and boudaries. These young men have been professionaly coached since junior. Good cop bad cop is no last decade! Learn to communicate! Years of tradition unhampered by progress is not the way to go!

    OK I get it

    Player shows up drunk for practice.

    Coach has a meeting with player

    Player tells coach to fuck off and that CBA allows him on his time off he can do what he wants.

    Coach asks for a counsellor to intervene and conciliation

    It’s the new world

  165. deardylan says:

    Crystal ball says humans including PC and TM will act similar to how they have over their past 30 years of life. Unless someone else gives them executive order.

    Regression to the Mean.

    PC is wired with ambition and big deals. Look at his education background and linked in CV. He is a driver = driver focuses on the task, not people. Expect all the big names to be traded if they don’t get results or they party too hard or don’t give their all. He was signed to 4 years with Boston and then another 4 years. He has been a finalist for GM of the year.He is a business man and a business, man. Its not personal, its busi-ness.

    TM is wired to trust in his coaches and delegate responsibility to them. He is similar to an amiable-driver = focuses on his people. When I read his interviews feel he builds loyalty where he goes with players he trusts and delegates to the coaches he works with. Did he really give order to move on from assistant coaches–I think that is more a GM decision? TM has .597 record in regular season and lower sub .500 in the playoffs. Overall he is a winner.

    Do people REALLY change (under normal circumstances), or do they just regress to their mean?

    PC = expect some more PC trades & draft picks shuffled.
    TM = expect some more TMisms, delegating to his coaches.
    Me = expect more DAisms, quotes, leadership/mgmt theory
    LT blog = expect more stories, song titles and mammoth math computations

    #ScorpianandFrogStory #RegressionToTheMean

  166. Ryan says:

    Ryan:
    Man the NHL is so bush league.

    3 power plays to 0. Preds/Jets.

    Subban has gotten away with the ol can opener at least twice.

    Why does it always feel like there’s such a discordance in calls between American and Canadian teams? The Yankees always seem to get the breaks.

  167. Scungilli Slushy says:

    sliderule: OK I get it

    Player shows up drunk for practice.

    Coach has a meeting with player

    Player tells coach to fuck off and thatCBAallows him on his time offhe can do what he wants.

    Coach asks for a counsellor to intervene and conciliation

    It’s the new world

    Simple, do due diligence and draft serious minded players that don’t party. There are lots these days.

    Drinking and rec drugs aren’t an option anymore, things are too competitive. In the olden days everyone was a wreck, as we see in how they are now, years later and still going hard.

    It’s the easiest thing in the world to ask players be professional when you have McDavid on your team setting the way. Build on it.

  168. OriginalPouzar says:

    Andy Dufresne: These things have a way of getting done that is not always strictly by the book. Both teams are out of the playoffs and free to discuss trades, contracts etc.

    Sure, they can talk trade – in fact, they can even make the trade right now (trades can actually be made after the deadline). With that said, they cannot talk contract with OEL or his agent and, even if they could, they could not actually have an extension signed until July 1, after the draft.

    There is risk.

  169. unca miltie says:

    interesting that the talk is Yawney and Gulutzan. some one mentioned they were friends. Both are from Hudson Bay, Sask. not far my hometown of Nipawin. Yawney is quite a bit older, so would have been in the NHL when Gully was growing up.

  170. leadfarmer says:

    godot10: Take a CHL or USHL or college or ECHL head coaching job.

    Tim Hunter went to Moose Jaw, for example.Rocky Thompson went to Sarnia(?), and his now half the way back up in the AHL as head coach of the Chicago Wolves.

    CHL? You really want a coach that plays a few forwards more than half of the game in hopes of becoming the next thing in coaching. I’d say we need the exact opposite. Someone that can develop skills, be patient with players, be ok with a losing team if it means player development, and someone that will employ the system dictated from above so players are ready to step into their role when they get called up.
    So no CHL coaches is exactly what I’d stay away from.

  171. leadfarmer says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Only leaf fans would go into that series and whine about losing it. You had very little chance. You pushed a much better team to game 7. Be proud of your young team. But instead the city is drowning in tears. Tampa and Boston are the two favorites to come out of the east. You had bad luck with the playoff matchup and if the league had its 1-8 seeding they would probably have won a series.
    Oh well, hope they push Matthews out of the city. I’m sure he’ll do just fine anywhere else

  172. @DraftLook says:

    I think Evan Bouchard could be the guy the Oilers have been missing on the backend for quite some time now. He can move the puck up ice quickly and efficiently, as well as having a fantastic shot that he uses very well. Can quarterback a powerplay quite well too.

    His statistics are incredibly impressive.

    I wrote this about him a while ago: http://notyouraveragehockeyblog.com/2018/03/19/evan-bouchards-pro-style-game-is-allowing-him-to-find-great-success-in-his-draft-season/

    He’s an intriguing option if they stay in that 8-10 range. I’m hoping that Hughes falls to our pick – I have him as the 3rd best prospect in the entire draft. He’s dominant in transition play, and was consistently the best defenceman on his team for the majority of the games I watched him play, despite being the youngest player in NCAA D1.

    If Boqvist or Wahlstrom fall, they should snatch one of them up as well. I don’t see much of a gap between Zadina and Wahlstrom – in fact Wahlstrom does a better job of attacking the slot than Zadina does IMO. Wahlstrom was dominant with Jack Hughes for USNTDP U18 team. Fun to imagine whar he could do with McDavid.

    Hoping for another lottery win tomorrow. With Dahlin, is this a playoff team?

  173. Andy Dufresne says:

    Side: Gotcha.

    LOL. He should hold himself accountable and resign.

  174. Andy Dufresne says:

    EVERYONE! Get to bed! Tomorrow is Draft Lottery Day.

    Or “Rasmus Day” as it will be known in Edmonton for the next 100 years.

  175. Andy Dufresne says:

    leadfarmer: Only leaf fans would go into that series and whine about losing it. You had very little chance. You pushed a much better team to game 7. Be proud of your young team. But instead the city is drowning in tears. Tampa and Boston are the two favorites to come out of the east. You had bad luck with the playoff matchup and if the league had its 1-8 seeding they would probably have won a series.
    Oh well, hope they push Matthews out of the city. I’m sure he’ll do just fine anywhere else

    Agreed

    Only oilers fans would go into that series and whine about losing it. You had very little chance. You pushed a much better team to game 7. Be proud of your young team. But instead the city is drowning in tears. Anaheim and Nashville were the two favorites to come out of the west. You had bad luck with the playoff matchup and if the league had its officiating sorted out they would probably have won another series.

    See what I did there. Just kidding. Having some fun with it.

    Peace Out.

    But seriously….lets hope they push Matthews out of there.

  176. VOR says:

    I find it so easy to get distracted here.

    Today we have the idea that character doesn’t matter once again front and center. In the same thread we are arguing over whether the Oilers need a disciplinarian or a players coach. Meanwhile we have scungili slushy suggesting that to avoid having to address a player showing up drunk at practice just do your due diligence and draft players who take their job seriously and thus would never show up drunk in the first place.

    I find it hard to know where to begin.

    I guess I will begin with the fact that in the mid 1980s most sports started recognizing elite coaches were elite because of their communication skills and personalities. Elite athletes tend to have strongly defined personality types (back then we used the MMPPI tool). Elite coaches are the exact opposite. It is almost like they take on the personality type of whoever they are coaching.

    In the years since then coaching theory has developed a great deal. Now most sports invest seriously in helping their coaches improve their communication and interpersonal skills. There is a real emphasis on psycho neural models for understanding and influencing behaviour. The last fifteen years or so in professional sports has seen the introduction of psych-neuro economic models and risk personality typing and management.

    I don’t coach hockey and never have. But it sure seems like NHL coaches continue to fly largely by the seat of their pants and are falling further and further behind best practice at least in terms of communication and motivational tools and techniques. It really looks like some coaches have trouble communicating with their players, particularly the young ones.

    Having coached for over forty years I can’t say young elite athletes have changed much. They continue to want to be the best and want you to help them get there. All these new tools (and there are a huge number of recent additions to the literature and practice of coaching) are very useful in helping you to help them reach their goals. The biggest difference is that in the last few years athletes have started insisting they be full partners in this project.

    I guess coaches who haven’t moved with the times probably see younger athletes as expecting to be pampered and indulged. I see them as way more interesting to coach. And the coaching process as more equitable and effective. I can assure that young athletes today (and a lot of my colleagues of long standing would tell you the same thing) show up earlier, train harder and smarter, and know more about their sport than ever before. But they expect the coach/athlete relationship to be collaborative and if it isn’t they tune you out.

    They also still show up to practice hung over to the point of being drunk, under the influence of narcotic substances, in roid rages, seriously malnourished and my favourite, sleep deprived. If the excesses of youth bother you coaching isn’t a good career move. Yes there are straight arrows but even they can make dumb decisions in the exuberance of the moment. Over the years elite athletes learn what they need to do to optimize their performance and there is precious little any coach can do to speed up that process.

    The one immutable fact of coaching is that slumbering underneath the surface turbulence of any elite athlete are world class demons. They are driven. If they weren’t they’d have fallen by the wayside long before becoming elite.

    Failure is their constant companion.

    This is true of the NHL. Consider how many sorties Connor McDavid flies in a season and what a small percentage actually pay off. Now imagine how much failure regular NHL players must be experiencing. Yet they keep picking themselves up and trying again. The very best have even less quit in them than the average player but the average player is tough as nails.

    That average player lives with constant pain and fatigue. They fail over and over again. But against all odds they pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and joyously throw themselves back into the battle.

    So it isn’t that character doesn’t matter. In dozens of different ways it matters every minute of every game, of every practice, of every off season. It is just hard to measure and still harder to predict. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t useful to know which players had the highest “I refuse to give up” score.

    Nor does it mean that it wouldn’t be incredibly useful to know which player would maximize their drive under which coach.

  177. JimmyV1965 says:

    Cassandra:
    This is shaping up to be a great draft to have a pick in the 7-10 spot.No big separation from 3-10, and a big separation right after.

    You would have to be a fool to trade this pick.

    This is bad news for Oiler fans.Though, in this case I am having a hard time really believing they would do another thing this dumb.

    I wish I had it all figure out like you. So confident and assured in your genius. You must be living the life.

  178. Bulging Twine says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Long time Lowetide poster Murat Ates (posted under “Showerhead”) is now the Winnipeg Jets beat writer for The Athletic.

    He’s down asking questions of the coaches and players and his stuff this year has been second to none.

    I strongly recommend reading his stuff (especially on the PK) this year.

    His piece today is just fantastic: https://theathletic.com/331601/2018/04/27/josh-morrissey-on-why-winnipegs-forecheck-works-and-preparing-for-nashvilles-versatility/

    He takes quotes from Maurice and from an interview with Josh Morrissey and marries it with excellent explanations and video to show WPG’s forecheck tactics (with emphasis on the F3 playing high to cover) and how it might change/work vs NSH and their tactics.

    For me, this is what I’ve been dying to read since I became a hockey fan.

    A hockey journalist who talks to the coaches and players about hockey and helps explain what’s going on to the fans.

    No questions about feelings, or leadership or emotions.Just hockey.

    Seems like Maurice and the team have warmed to Showerhead as well.I’ve read post game pressers reports where Maurice appreciates the quality of questions and almost talks to Showerhead as an equal.

    Must be breath of fresh air for the players and coaches too.

    There is a long way to go, but we’ve come a long way from the President of the PHWA boldly writing that heavily sheltered soft minute VAN C Hodgson had taken away Tough Minute 80% Dzone FO C Maholtra’s job because Hodgson had scored some goals.

    Its a long way from watching hockey to watching with an understanding of what each team is actually trying to do besides chase a puck.

    The more writers we have who understand what they’re watching and educating the fan base, the better off we all are.

    Well done Showerhead!!!

    clap clap good job showerhead

  179. Lowetide says:

    VOR: So it isn’t that character doesn’t matter. In dozens of different ways it matters every minute of every game, of every practice, of every off season. It is just hard to measure and still harder to predict. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t useful to know which players had the highest “I refuse to give up” score.

    Nor does it mean that it wouldn’t be incredibly useful to know which player would maximize their drive under which coach.

    Agreed. It will show up in the stats, but why does a situation not work in one city and work well in the next one. Magnus Paajarvi scored 15 goals as a rookie, two the next season with the same coach. Said coach admitted he “lost” Magnus in trying to get rookie RNH in.

    It is as you say. Everyone can be working hard, Nail Yakupov worked hard, but why does chem work in one spot and not in the other? Part of it is no doubt bringing young players along at their own pace. But there’s a lot of mystery and giant dose of luck, plus things that can be observed/factored.

  180. deardylan says:

    VOR:

    Enjoyed reading your post VOR. Especially this quote:

    “Elite coaches are the exact opposite. It is almost like they take on the personality type of whoever they are coaching.

  181. hunter1909 says:

    Lowe needs to get on the phone and convince Jari Kurri to come over and rent a room to that former number four draft pick.

  182. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    VOR,

    – The part about the athlete knowing so much more about training is very significant

    – Remember when Dallas ran marathons, and the scuttlebutt was that Hall questioned why they had to do so much running, an aerobic activitiy. Coach didn’t like that. He praised Captain Ferrence who liked to do long bike rides…

  183. russ99 says:

    I can’t see why anyone would look at our AHL team and want to keep the coach.

    Criminal how players with some skill and a chance to improve were either benched or shuttled off to the ECHL so checkers, pluggers and career AHLers can play.

    Woodcroft should be a major improvement, hopefully MacTavish, Howson and Carriere follow Fleming out the door after the Cup Final.

    At the cap and with the best player in the league, proper management of the AHL team and a razor focus on player development is super vital. We can’t be the laughing stock of the AHL with buddy hires running the show if we want to succeed.

  184. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    VOR:
    I find it so easy to get distracted here.

    Today we have the idea that character doesn’t matter once again front and center. In the same thread we are arguing over whether the Oilers need a disciplinarian or a players coach. Meanwhile we have scungili slushy suggesting that to avoid having to address a player showing up drunk at practice just do your due diligence and draft players who take their job seriously and thus would never show up drunk in the first place.

    I find it hard to know where to begin.

    I guess I will begin with the fact that in the mid 1980s most sports started recognizing elite coaches were elite because of their communication skills and personalities. Elite athletes tend to have strongly defined personality types (back then we used the MMPPI tool). Elite coaches are the exact opposite. It is almost like they take on the personality type of whoever they are coaching.

    In the years since then coaching theory has developed a great deal. Now most sports invest seriously in helping their coaches improve their communication and interpersonal skills. There is a real emphasis on psycho neural models for understanding and influencing behaviour. The last fifteen years or so in professional sports has seen the introduction of psych-neuro economic models and risk personality typing and management.

    I don’t coach hockey and never have. But it sure seems like NHL coaches continue to fly largely by the seat of their pants and are falling further and further behind best practice at least in terms of communication and motivational tools and techniques. It really looks like some coaches have trouble communicating with their players, particularly the young ones.

    Having coached for over forty years I can’t say young elite athletes have changed much. They continue to want to be the best and want you to help them get there. All these new tools (and there are a huge number of recent additions to the literature and practice of coaching) are very useful in helping you to help them reach their goals. The biggest difference is that in the last few years athletes have started insisting they be full partners in this project.

    I guess coaches who haven’t moved with the times probably see younger athletes as expecting to be pampered and indulged. I see them as way more interesting to coach. And the coaching process as more equitable and effective. I can assure that young athletes today (and a lot of my colleagues of long standing would tell you the same thing) show up earlier, train harder and smarter, and know more about their sport than ever before. But they expect the coach/athlete relationship to be collaborative and if it isn’t they tune you out.

    They also still show up to practice hung over to the point of being drunk, under the influence of narcotic substances, in roid rages, seriously malnourished and my favourite, sleep deprived. If the excesses of youth bother you coaching isn’t a good career move. Yes there are straight arrows but even they can make dumb decisions in the exuberance of the moment. Over the years elite athletes learn what they need to do to optimize their performance and there is precious little any coach can do to speed up that process.

    The one immutable fact of coaching is that slumbering underneath the surface turbulence of any elite athlete are world class demons. They are driven. If they weren’t they’d have fallen by the wayside long before becoming elite.

    Failure is their constant companion.

    This is true of the NHL. Consider how many sorties Connor McDavid flies in a season and what a small percentage actually pay off. Now imagine how much failure regular NHL players must be experiencing. Yet they keep picking themselves up and trying again. The very best have even less quit in them than the average player but the average player is tough as nails.

    That average player lives with constant pain and fatigue. They fail over and over again. But against all odds they pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and joyously throw themselves back into the battle.

    So it isn’t that character doesn’t matter. In dozens of different ways it matters every minute of every game, of every practice, of every off season. It is just hard to measure and still harder to predict. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t useful to know which players had the highest “I refuse to give up” score.

    Nor does it mean that it wouldn’t be incredibly useful to know which player would maximize their drive under which coach.

    Great post.

    Thanks for that.

  185. Andy Dufresne says:

    VOR, Good Post. Thanks.

    “The one immutable fact of coaching is that slumbering underneath the surface turbulence of any elite athlete are world class demons. They are driven. If they weren’t they’d have fallen by the wayside long before becoming elite.”

    “Nor does it mean that it wouldn’t be incredibly useful to know which player would maximize their drive under which coach.”

    i realize im stating the obvious…..its not about the fact “THAT they are driven”

    The job of the coach is to learn HOW “They are driven”…WHAT drives them?

    Again, one of the core responsiblities of a coach is to match the motivational technique to the player(s).
    Every coach is responsible to maximize the potential of a variety of personality/charachter types.
    Peter Deboer does not coach Evander Kane the same way he coaches Joe Thorton.

    The goal of great coaching is to guide, inspire and empower an athlete or team to achieve their full potential. ..it involves several things are unique to each player AND it evolves/changes as the player evolves/changes…it is dynamic…not static. Its the reason that coaching staffs continue to grow in size.

    Leadership.
    Knowledge. …
    Motivation. …
    Knowing the Athlete. …
    Consistency. …
    Effective communication skills.

  186. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lowetide,

    “Part of it is no doubt bringing young players along at their own pace”

    I think the answer lies in the business model. Like any job, “expectations” are based on pay level more than anything else. Players are brought a long at a pace that is congruent with pay level.

    What kind of developmental program changes would have occured had Yak been a late 1st round pick signed to and ELC of $600K

    .

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