The Warmth of the Sun

Every summer, weary Oilers fans are met by a blast from the sun, signaling the annual trek to find water in enough supply to be called a lake, and the realization that hope springs eternal when it comes to the local hockey team’s transactions. Remember Dany Heatley for Dustin Penner, Andrew Cogliano and Ladislav Smid? Remember Cam Barker signing as key free agent summer 2011? Identifying useful players, both on its own roster and outside the Oilers, has been a mystery for about one dozen years now. Edmonton’s procurement record is like a box of chocolates: You never know what you’re going to get.

THE ATHLETIC

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  • New Lowetide: Predicting the late June trade that will flummox Oilers fans this summer
  • New Jonathan Willis: Is Ty Rattie capable of injecting skill on an Oilers scoring line?
  • Lowetide: Ty Smith a quality fit for the Oilers at No. 10 overall.
  • Jonathan Willis: Edmonton’s pick at No. 10 has great value.
  • Lowetide: Woodcroft walks the streets of Bakersfield
  • Lowetide: The Oilers and Mikko Koskinen.
  • Lowetide: Oilers summer to-do list short and sweet.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and Russia: A draft tragedy.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the Republic of Finland
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and Sweden.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the QMJHL.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018Oilers and the WHL.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: Oilers draft history and the OHL
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the NCAA.

Allow me to take you back through the past, darkly:

  • June 30, 2009: Word tonight from multiple sources: Dany Heatley is an Edmonton Oiler. Senators get three NHL players in return: Andrew Cogliano, a very good young player; Dustin Penner, an inconsistent winger who does bring some things; Ladislav Smid, a young defender who has been developing at the NHL level. A lot of young talent heading the other way. Source
  • July 2, 2011: Did Cam Barker ever–at any time–play tough minutes in the NHL? No. He didn’t in Minnesota and in Chicago they always had a better option. Whatever Barker’s value–real or imagined, it doesn’t appear in the secondary disciplines (that I can find). Source
  • June 20, 2014: Edmonton acquires a window of opportunity to acquire Nikita Nikitin. Source

Let me ask you a question: Are you certain the Oilers pro evaluation is better than it was on the day Craig MacTavish traded for the right to make Nikita Nikitin richer? Are you sure? There are three pro scouts listed on the website (Chris Cichocki, Paul Messier and Matti Virmanen) and of course we can identify management types who would be involved in evaluation (Chiarelli, Craig MacTavish, Duane Sutter, Keith Gretzky, Bill Scott, Rick Carriere, Scott Howson). I also assume, but could be wrong, that any goalie signed (Koskinen) would be seen by not just the scout (Virmanen, surely) but also the goalie coach and consultant (Dustin Schwartz and Sylvain Rodrigue, respectively).

Chiarelli’s free agents

  1. Andrej Sekera signed a six-year deal July 1, 2015
  2. Mark Letestu signed a three-year deal July 1, 2015
  3. Drake Caggiula signed an entry-level deal May 7, 2016
  4. Milan Lucic signed a seven-year deal July 1, 2016
  5. Jonas Gustavsson signed a one-year deal July 1, 2016
  6. Mark Fraser signed a one-year deal July 1, 2016
  7. Matt Benning to an entry-level deal August 27, 2016
  8. Kris Russell to a one-year deal October 7, 2016
  9. Kris Russell to a four-year deal June 23, 2017
  10. Eric Gryba to a two-year deal June 27, 2017
  11. Mitch Callahan to a two-year deal July 1, 2017
  12. Ryan Stanton to a two-year deal July 1, 2017
  13. Ty Rattie to a one-year deal July 1, 2017
  14. Grayson Downing to a one-year deal July 1, 2017
  15. Brian Ferlin to a one-year deal July 1, 2017
  16. Keegan Lowe to a one-year deal July 1, 2017
  17. Eddie Pasquale to a one-year deal July 1, 2017
  18. Brian Malone to a two-year deal July 3, 2017
  19. Jussi Jokinen to a one-year deal July 7, 2017
  20. Yohann Auvitu to a one-year deal July 10, 2017

Men who played for the Oilers are in sky blue bold. I’m always hesitant to blame the scouts for the pro signings because you damned well know the upper management had a long look at these cats before signing them. How many of these signings were quality, in your opinion? Was that your stated opinion at the time? Peter Chiarelli has less room to wheel this summer, a great deal of the problem coming from the early contracts for Sekera, Lucic and (later) Russell. Do you trust this management group to spend wisely summer 2018?

I wrote about Austin Czarnik as an option one month ago at The Athletic, mentioned his speed, forechecking ability and special teams work. Czarnik might be a brilliant addition, not just for Bakersfield but possibly for the Oilers as time goes by. I’d be all over that kind of addition, even with the knowledge it would cut down on playing time for some of the youth.

Cullen is a very bright guy who somehow has time to review all 31 teams as he did with Carolina here. Scott has Edmonton acquiring Justin Faulk for Jesse Puljujarvi (in a package) and it makes sense on some levels. The Hurricanes could reunite JP with Aho and may also run Teravainen to get a full boat of Finns pushing the river. I am not a fan of the trade, but can see why both teams would make the exchange.

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153 Responses to "The Warmth of the Sun"

  1. leadfarmer says:

    I see JP as being in the doghouse with management and definitely as someone they would trade. Thankfully our cap issues will not allow it. But I could still see Chia making that trade and then trading Nuge for futures because he sucks at his job.

  2. Woogie63 says:

    leadfarmer:
    I see JP as being in the doghouse with management and definitely as someone they would trade.Thankfully our cap issues will not allow it.But I could still see Chia making that trade and then trading Nuge for futures because he sucks at his job.

    I don’t see this player in the dog house at all,

    Played in AHL, 4th line, 3rd line, now 2nd line competition.

    If he was 24 I think you are reading the tea leaf correctly. JP appears to be a young 19 year being developed slowly, which is strange for Oiler fans 🙂

  3. NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker) says:

    I could see JP for Faulk to be reunited with Aho, but as I suggested in the thread yesterday I would prefer that to happen here instead.

    Draisaitl, Yamamoto
    for
    Aho, Pesce, Svechnikov

    or something like that.

  4. Mr DeBakey says:

    Was that your stated opinion at the time?

    Andrej Sekera signed a six-year deal July 1, 2015 – YEAH!
    Mark Letestu signed a three-year deal July 1, 2015- YEAH!
    Drake Caggiula signed an entry-level deal May 7, 2016 – Fine
    Milan Lucic signed a seven-year deal July 1, 2016 -B000!
    Jonas Gustavsson signed a one-year deal July 1, 2016 -B000!
    Mark Fraser signed a one-year deal July 1, 2016 – Meh
    Matt Benning to an entry-level deal August 27, 2016 – Hey look, another son of an NHLer
    Kris Russell to a one-year deal October 7, 2016- YEAH!
    Kris Russell to a four-year deal June 23, 2017-B000!
    Eric Gryba to a two-year deal June 27, 2017- Fine
    Mitch Callahan to a two-year deal July 1, 2017- Fine
    Ryan Stanton to a two-year deal July 1, 2017- Fine
    Ty Rattie to a one-year deal July 1, 2017- Fine
    Grayson Downing to a one-year deal July 1, 2017- Meh
    Brian Ferlin to a one-year deal July 1, 2017- Meh
    Keegan Lowe to a one-year deal July 1, 2017 – Hey look, another son of an NHLer
    Eddie Pasquale to a one-year deal July 1, 2017- Meh
    Brian Malone to a two-year deal July 3, 2017- Meh
    Jussi Jokinen to a one-year deal July 7, 2017 – Meh
    Yohann Auvitu to a one-year deal July 10, 2017 – Very Interestin’

  5. 36 percent body fat says:

    Woogie63,

    developed slow? sure, but slow with out ice time is just dumb. Cant work on your game from the bench, he isnt a coach/

  6. leadfarmer says:

    Only way In my mind I would trade for Faulk is we trade them Lucic and trade a mil in cap to a third team and pick up Faulk and Darling who we buy out for them. JP is an overpayment and Nuge is a big overpayment. Offensive defenseman have to be just as good or better in the other two zones to make them worth their cap and what they give up in their own zone

  7. leadfarmer says:

    Woogie63,

    They didnt like his offseason workout habits and got pushed down the lineup by a rookie midget. Now he got sent home and acknowledged he needs to start working right away this offseason. Not the first person to enjoy their paycheck and pizza.

  8. innercitysmytty says:

    leadfarmer,

    Any evidence JP is in the doghouse with management? Everything I hear says otherwise. The coach on the other hand appears to have some issues with the player. Is that enough for management to trade him? Some might say so. I don’t see too many trades this team wins if the move JP.

  9. Woogie63 says:

    Edmonton is not on the top of the list for UFA’s. To get quality players to move to Edmonton it appears we need to pay a premium in $ and term.

    We pick from the player list the warm American city teams have passed over.

  10. innercitysmytty says:

    leadfarmer,

    Do you have a link to an article that indicates management didn’t like his offseason workout habits? I don’t recall seeing this.

  11. russ99 says:

    Everything on that signed FA list below Gryba and not including Jokinen is MacT and more importantly Howson.

    That’s what we signed instead of help for the NHL roster. Any other organization, that would be a fireable offense, but not for Katz.

    Katz is the biggest problem with this franchise.

  12. vesci says:

    The only way I see a JP for Faulk trade making any sense is if the Oilers have a second trade lined up where we trade someone from the leftorium for a scoring winger.

  13. Woogie63 says:

    36 percent body fat:
    Woogie63,

    developed slow? sure, but slow with out ice time is just dumb.Cant work on your game from the bench, he isnt a coach/

    Hmmm

    You have three choices to develop this high end talent;

    1)Play as an amateur
    2) Play as a pro in the AHL
    3) Play in the NHL against reasonable competition

    Do you like another option better?

  14. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woogie63:
    Edmonton is not on the top of the list for UFA’s.To get quality players to move to Edmonton it appears we need to pay a premium in $ and term.

    We pick from the player list the warm American city teams have passed over.

    Im quite thrilled that Edmonton is not on the list of the top UFAs. We have to stop signing high-priced free agents. The only UFAs that work for any team are the bottom feeders, who will go anywhere they get an offer.

  15. --hudson-- says:

    Regarding the pro scouts, I found this interview of Chris Cichocki on YouTube. It’s five years old but at the time his job was to find ECHL players for the AHL team.
    https://youtu.be/rTTit9PX7-Q

    If we project from there, is Paul Messier an AHL scout? Is Virmanen scouting every European league? These “pro scouts” might be more like amateur scouts for other pro leagues, rather than tasked with evaluating players on reserve lists for other NHL teams.

    It could be there’s not a staff member solely dedicated to evaluating whether or not the next Cam Barker can play.

  16. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Woogie63: I don’t see this player in the dog house at all,

    Played in AHL, 4th line, 3rd line, now 2nd line competition.

    If he was 24 I think you are reading the tea leaf correctly.JP appears to be a young 19 year being developed slowly, which is strange for Oiler fans

    I agree with this.

    The mistake with JP was bringing him over last year. Peter owns that.

    This year McLellan has sheltered him while giving him looks in the top 6.

    We’ve bitched forever about EDM playing players above their established level and then when they shelter a kid there’s more bitching.

    While he might have been the best option on the team for 1 or 2 RW, it wasn’t best for him.

    McLellan talked about working JP into driving his own line and that’s a good idea. Gotta start vs the softs.

    Peter was pretty glowing about JP and his future in his year end avail as well.

    The thing I disagree with the most is McLellan not a playing him on PP2 all year. That’s just dumb.

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    “Do you trust this management group to spend wisely summer 2018”

    ___________________________________________

    $2.5M for Koskinen signals, hell no!

    Potential silver lining: It depletes any available cap space to sign a material free agent, the wrong material free agent (Grabner, Maroon, Perron – essentially and winger).

    Potential catastrophic effect: It could indirectly lead to the trade of an Oscar Klefbom for below value to open up the cap space to sign or acquire the wrong material player (player above or Justin Faulk).

  18. OriginalPouzar says:

    Faulk had 12 even strength points this past year (Darnell Nurse had 26).

    Faulk has regrssed for 2-3 years straight now.

    Faulk is awful in his own zone, regressing.

    The numbers show that Faulk is a drag on every single partner that is paired with him.

    ———————————————–

    I’m on record as stating that the one material acquisition I want to see, the only place I want material cap space committed to, is a right shot puck moving D for the top 6.

    3 years ago, this player would be a nice addition for that spot but I’m not sure he’s an adequate top 4 D at this point.

    Is he any more than a 3RD and PP specialist?

    I don’t think he can be trusted to play top 4 minutes and, in that regard, I don’t want to acquire him – not to mention we’d likely overpay for him and need to send additional cap out to make it work.

  19. who says:

    vesci:
    The only way I see a JP for Faulk trade making any sense is if the Oilers have a second trade lined up where we trade someone from the leftorium for a scoring winger.

    There is no universe that a JP for Faulk trade makes sense in.
    Faulk is a bad defenseman and shouldn’t require prime assets to acquire. The biggest asset they should get is the cap space from trading him.

  20. Richard S.S. says:

    Edmonton is farther North than any other City in the NHL by a large margin. Weather can be an issue and frequently is. Add in the disadvantages of playing in Canada, like the Border and Taxes, and it can be seen as a difficult place to play. The reason players will consider playing in Edmonton are readily apparent – Connor McDavid in a brand new arena in a thriving area.

    Free Agents become Free Agents because of just three reasons
    1) They aren’t good enough to keep.
    2) They want too much money/term.
    3) They are desparately trying to leave that Team.

    Trades on the other hand are not without pitfalls either. There is still the need amongst some GMs to win the trade, but that’s slowly going away. Trading need(s) for need(s) is gaining more relevance, but it can still be expensive as few people value assets the same way.

    Drafting, despite all the accepted lore really depends on two things, skill and luck. One without the other limits possible results. But having both is not a guarentee of success because the ability and drive of the player trumps all. That’s so very hard to find.

  21. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    But when they play a younger player above him in the batting order then it’s not really the organization getting smart it’s just continuation of gross incompetence and JP just happened to fall in the right spot. I’m saying JP is where I expect him to be in his development but I don’t think the brain trust agrees. And how do you not give your 3rd OV pick PP time in a loss season because he needs to earn it is further proof

  22. slopitch says:

    I think the oilers could consider a move involving JP, Faulk, 2 and 10.

    The oilers have handled JP fine. He’s been sheltered and is just waiting for the game to slow down and his brain to sync up with his giant frame. Takes time.

  23. Scungilli Slushy says:

    vesci:
    The only way I see a JP for Faulk trade making any sense is if the Oilers have a second trade lined up where we trade someone from the leftorium for a scoring winger.

    I agree. Two smart deals could move the dial forward. I don’t know that one is enough. Smart has been the problem.

    I’m ok with pushing the cap hard, possibly not covering bonuses and moving Sekera and Russell next year clearing enough cap to cover that. It all depends if the players acquired are better than what goes out in the long run, and a top 9 and top 4 are put in place.

    It’s always hard seeing players move out. But really there are few that are difference makers. If the right things come back it can make the team better. Many contenders have been set with good trades that put top quality drafting and development over the top.

  24. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    But when they play a younger player above him in the batting order then it’s not really the organization getting smart it’s just continuation of gross incompetence and JP just happened to fall in the right spot. I’m saying JP is where I expect him to be in his development but I don’t think the brain trust agrees.And how do you not give your 3rd OV pick PP time in a loss season because he needs to earn it is further proof

    Are you referring to be KY playing with 97 for 7 games (2 without 97) while 98 was in the AHL?

  25. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Based on how the Dmen play that Chiarelli has acquired via FA or trade I think it’s safe to say that Faulk is not a target.

    He is available though.

    I can see “Faulk to EDM” being a common guess by many analysts because superficially there is a fit, but I really, really, really doubt EDM is seriously considering it.

  26. 36 percent body fat says:

    Woogie63,

    should have done one year full in AHL. But icetime was probably guarenteed. this way he gets an nhl paycheck and burns a year on his contract, otherwise he would have probably stayed in finland that year. Which would have been the better option in hindsight. The season was over on Jan 1 right there he should have been given opportunities to see what he has.

  27. Pescador says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Edmonton is farther North than any other City in the NHL by a large margin.Weather can be an issue and frequently is.Add in the disadvantages of playing in Canada, like the Border and Taxes, and it can be seen as a difficult place to play.The reason players will consider playing in Edmonton are readily apparent – Connor McDavid in a brand new arena in a thriving area.

    Free Agents become Free Agents because of just three reasons
    1) They aren’t good enough to keep.
    2) They want too much money/term.
    3) They are desparately trying to leave that Team.

    Trades on the other hand are not without pitfalls either.There is still the need amongst some GMs to win the trade, but that’s slowly going away.Trading need(s) for need(s) is gaining more relevance, but it can still be expensive as few people value assets the same way.

    Drafting, despite all the accepted lore really depends on two things, skill and luck.One without the other limits possible results.But having both is not a guarentee of success because the ability and drive of the player trumps all.That’s so very hard to find.

    4. The team can’t fit the FA under their Cap.
    Probably a result of handing out too many large FA contracts

  28. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Faulk had 12 even strength points this past year (Darnell Nurse had 26).

    Faulk has regrssed for 2-3 years straight now.

    Faulk is awful in his own zone, regressing.

    The numbers show that Faulk is a drag on every single partner that is paired with him.

    ———————————————–

    I’m on record as stating that the one material acquisition I want to see, the only place I want material cap space committed to, is a right shot puck moving D for the top 6.

    3 years ago, this player would be a nice addition for that spot but I’m not sure he’s an adequate top 4 D at this point.

    Is he any more than a 3RD and PP specialist?

    I don’t think he can be trusted to play top 4 minutes and, in that regard, I don’t want to acquire him – not to mention we’d likely overpay for him and need to send additional cap out to make it work.

    There is no use having a puck moving R dman until he has atleast two more NHL quality wingers to pass to. The present defensive core can compete with more competent, and defensively responsible wingers. The team needs atleast two wingers with the ability to score 15 – 20 goals.

  29. Woogie63 says:

    JimmyV1965: Im quite thrilled that Edmonton is not on the list of the top UFAs. We have to stop signing high-priced free agents. The only UFAs that work for any team are the bottom feeders, who will go anywhere they get an offer.

    I completely agree with this.

    I look forward to the day that July 1 is a really boring day around Oilerville

  30. jake70 says:

    Woogie63:
    Edmonton is not on the top of the list for UFA’s.To get quality players to move to Edmonton it appears we need to pay a premium in $ and term.

    We pick from the player list the warm American city teams have passed over.

    Every time the league expands (and they don’t expand to Yellowknife, Whitehorse, Iqaluit, Sudbury, GooseBay, Chicoutimi) , the Oilers drift just a bit further from a Stanley Cup.

  31. Woogie63 says:

    36 percent body fat:
    Woogie63,

    should have done one year full in AHL. But icetime was probably guarenteed. this way he gets an nhl paycheck and burns a year on his contract, otherwise he would have probably stayed in finland that year. Which would have been the better option in hindsight.The season was over on Jan 1 right there he should have been given opportunities to see what he has.

    I don’t mind the stay in the AHL option. The stay in Finland option puts to too much of his his development in other coaches hands.

    I still think hanging around the NHL players, coaches, trainers is a reasonable development option for this player.

  32. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Oilman99: There is no use having a puck moving R dman until he has atleast two more NHL quality wingers to pass to. The present defensive core can compete with more competent, and defensively responsible wingers. The team needs atleast two wingers with the ability to score 15 – 20 goals.

    I don’t think improving the Dcorps is mutually exclusive with improving the wings. You can (and should) do both.

    That said, the largest impact is via the Dman who plays with all lines, so if you can only improve one, that’s my vote.

  33. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Are you referring to be KY playing with 97 for 7 games (2 without 97) while 98 was in the AHL?

    Well thanks for making my point that JP started the season in the doghouse. Doesnt it strike you odd that Yamamoto got the Mcdavid treatment while JP had to earn it?

  34. rickithebear says:

    19 year old Jesse was used @even
    We received Top prospect even goal production.

    19 yr season evgpg
    Barkov .183
    Horvat .176
    Mackinnon .172
    Dubois .170
    Perron .161
    Duchene .160
    Tavares .159
    Puljujarvi 65gm 10 evg .154
    Galchenyuk .154
    Ehlers .153
    Couturier .143
    Seguin .135
    O,Reilly .135
    M. Tkachuk .132
    Voracek .113
    N. Patrick .110f
    J. stall .110
    Folks need to readjust the incorrect idea of what elite 19 yr old production is. Puljujarvi was real good considering line mates and his quality 200 ft game to players on this list.

  35. rickithebear says:

    Someone might want to educate Johnathan Willis on how out of touch he is in his JP article!
    LT?

    Sorry for facts!

    Bonus structure of ELC may have a slight affect on who gets easier push.

    Potential cap hit
    Jp 3.5M
    Yamamoto 1.55m

  36. rickithebear says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Based on how the Dmen play that Chiarelli has acquired via FA or trade I think it’s safe to say that Faulk is not a target.

    He is available though.

    I can see “Faulk to EDM” being a common guess by many analysts because superficially there is a fit, but I really, really, really doubt EDM is seriously considering it.

    Going back and looking at the past!

    Cup win with 4+ HD Dmen

    Star picks with 3rd and 2 Nd line push.

  37. rickithebear says:

    Since the lockout we have had 2 seasons we’re defending the HD area was a roster priority in Edmonton.

    05-06 cup final
    16-17 2 bullshit goals from conf final.

    What should we gat back to?

    Anyone?

  38. Dustylegnd says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Any good winger will agree that it is much easier to be a great winger when receiving passes from the likes of Doughty and Karlson than Chris Russell and Eric Gryba

    Great Wingers are even better when playing with gifted D men who can pass

  39. jtblack says:

    I for one, like this Backup Goalie signing. PC had to address thesituaution and I believe this is his best attempt at providing a quality backup. WE WAIT

    The D as constructed is Good Enough to make playoffs (see 2017); but its clearly not good enough to be Cup Worthy.

    Agree with WG, we dont just fix 1 area; we need to get 10% beyter in a few and hope the collective “add” gets us to 95+ points.

    Backup Goalie – Check
    2RHD –
    VETERAN WINGER –
    OTHER –

    oh and GO VEGAS!!!!!!

  40. Alpine says:

    jake70: Every time the league expands (and they don’t expand to Yellowknife, Whitehorse, Iqaluit, Sudbury, GooseBay, Chicoutimi) , the Oilers drift just a bit further from a Stanley Cup.

    Big ticket free agents rarely win teams Cups. Hossa and Campbell are like the only ones, throw Chara in there too. Chicago didn’t even have Campbell for two of their cups. LA and Pittsburgh didn’t have any.

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    Slovakia hits the ice in a few minutes if anyone is interested in tuning in to see how Reggie looks.

    I only saw a few shifts of the game yesterday, however, I’ve read a couple random posts that he didn’t look very good despite the goal and assist – total heresay mind you.

  42. Dustylegnd says:

    leadfarmer: Well thanks for making my point that JP started the season in the doghouse.Doesnt it strike you odd that Yamamoto got the Mcdavid treatment while JP had to earn it?

    Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Yamo have 5 goals and 2 assists in the pre season, and did he not earn a 10 game look at absolutely 0 cost to the Oilers, without any impact on contract status in the future?

    I maintain, Meritocracy will always win in the long run, do you believe that Pool performed better than Yamo in the pre season?

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/pre-season-stats-2017

  43. --hudson-- says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Slovakia hits the ice in a few minutes if anyone is interested in tuning in to see how Reggie looks.

    I only saw a few shifts of the game yesterday, however, I’ve read a couple random posts that he didn’t look very good despite the goal and assist – total heresay mind you.

    You have to imagine he’s not taking the knee brace off until the fall. I don’t see any reason to expect him to look better then he did a month ago.

  44. jtblack says:

    rickithebear:
    19 year old Jesse was used @even
    We received Top prospect even goal production.

    19 yr season evgpg
    Barkov .183
    Horvat .176
    Mackinnon .172
    Dubois .170
    Perron .161
    Duchene .160
    Tavares .159
    Puljujarvi 65gm 10 evg .154
    Galchenyuk .154
    Ehlers .153
    Couturier .143
    Seguin .135
    O,Reilly .135
    M. Tkachuk .132
    Voracek .113
    N. Patrick .110f
    J. stall .110
    Folks need to readjust the incorrect idea of what elite 19 yr old production is. Puljujarvi was real good considering line mates and his quality 200 ft game to players on this list.

    +1 Ricki.

  45. hunter1909 says:

    Dustylegnd: Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Yamo have 5 goals and 2 assists in the pre season, and did he not earn a 10 game look at absolutely 0 cost to the Oilers, without any impact on contract status in the future?

    I maintain, Meritocracy will always win in the long run, do you believe that Pool performed better than Yamo in the pre season?

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/pre-season-stats-2017

    Good teams understand pre season points are meaningless.

    Bad teams think players who excel in pre season are slam dunks to start the season on 10 game “trials” which offer nothing but a glimpse of a player up against NHL opposition who aren’t even yet skating properly.

    Meanwhile, rookies play like rookies more often than not, and the team suffers. So what’s so good about this?

    I get it. Oilers are a hopelessly poor team, managed by tenured dolts.

  46. leadfarmer says:

    rickithebear:
    Since the lockout we have had 2 seasons we’re defending the HD area was a roster priority in Edmonton.

    05-06 cup final
    16-17 2 bullshit goals from conf final.

    What should we gat back to?

    Anyone?

    Not get back to anything. Need to move forward with the game not get back to anything. We need to build around Mcdavids speed and not try to slow him down. 16-17 was the highlight of our whack a puck years. We got very lucky to get as far as we did. That team would get absolutely destroyed by Vegas, Jets, Nashville, Pittsburgh Tampa.

  47. Kmart99 says:

    In the last 15 years the Oilers have drafted exactly 100 players outside the first round.
    Jeff Petry and Kyle Brodziak are the two most impactful players to emerge from that group. JJ Khaira and Tobias Rieder are right behind them.

    In my view, that is 0 home runs in 100 at bats. Not really a box of chocolates. The draft and development of Oilers prospects has been more like my christmas stockings as a child, guaranteed to be 95% filled with cheap socks, underwear, and maybe one or two bathroom accessories that are useful but never on my Christmas list.

  48. Lowetide says:

    One of the cool things I discovered about Yamamoto in looking at his stats:

    Yamamoto with McDavid: 65.10 in Corsi for 5×5 in 67 minutes
    Yamamoto w/o McDavid: 53.21 in Corsi for 5×5 in 53 minutes.

    Couldn’t cash but he was a nice player in those nine games.

  49. innercitysmytty says:

    leadfarmer,

    Woodguy v2.0,

    What WG says here about how Peter talked about JP at the year end presser seems to indicate they like the player. I still haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary.

  50. Spooky Lynx says:

    Fun fact: our giant Finnish boy turns 20 years old tomorrow.

  51. Wilde says:

    So uh, Letang appears to be wearing out his welcome…

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    –hudson–: You have to imagine he’s not taking the knee brace off until the fall.I don’t see any reason to expect him to look better then he did a month ago.

    You may be right – I know he hates that brace and I think it really limits him physically (and, indirectly, mentally).

  53. Dustylegnd says:

    Spooky Lynx:
    Fun fact: our giant Finnish boy turns 20 years old tomorrow.

    Yes indeed, all the more reason to give up on him because he will never be a useful NHL player, just like Wheeler and Schiefele were immediate successes in the NHL right?

  54. OriginalPouzar says:

    innercitysmytty:
    leadfarmer,

    Do you have a link to an article that indicates management didn’t like his offseason workout habits? I don’t recall seeing this.

    I can’t provide a link as I can’t remember where I read it but I do remember reading Puljijarvi’s quotes shortly after the season ended about needing to focus on off-season training and the organization’s instructions in that regard.

    He was 18 at the end of last off-season – I don’t think we should be surprised that he didn’t train like Crosby while back in Finland.

    He’s learning all facets of the game, including the proper way to train in the off-season.

  55. Dustylegnd says:

    hunter1909: Good teams understand pre season points are meaningless.

    Bad teams think players who excel in pre season are slam dunks to start the season on 10 game “trials” which offer nothing but a glimpse of a player up against NHL opposition who aren’t even yet skating properly.

    Meanwhile, rookies play like rookies more often than not, and the team suffers. So what’s so good about this?

    I get it. Oilers are a hopelessly poor team, managed by tenured dolts.

    don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you suggesting that because the Oilers did the sensible thing, rewarded Yamo for his pre season performance against the same talent all the other non established players on the team played against……somehow his 10 game trial did irreparable damage to the rest of the season forcing them to miss the playoffs?

    Or was it shit tending by Talbot mixed in with injuries to 2 of the top 4 D men on an already thin D, or was it Leons injury and subsequent less than peak performance?

    I think the Oilers have a real player in Yamo, I don’t understand the haters (and I understand you are hating on management not the player)

  56. Lowetide says:
  57. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    They weren’t happy with him and sent him down to the AHL. He seems to have recognized this and said he’s going to go home and start working right away this offseason. Trading him for Faulk would be crazy. He may be able to run the third line next season.
    But Chia trading Eberle when he didn’t have to makes me think that JP was further in his development than he really was which does not surprise me about Chia

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: Im quite thrilled that Edmonton is not on the list of the top UFAs. We have to stop signing high-priced free agents. The only UFAs that work for any team are the bottom feeders, who will go anywhere they get an offer.

    A couple form last year that worked out off the top of my head: Marleau, Radulov

  59. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: There is no use having a puck moving R dman until he has atleast two more NHL quality wingers to pass to. The present defensive core can compete with more competent, and defensively responsible wingers. The team needs atleast two wingers with the ability to score 15 – 20 goals.

    The Oilers have a number of young players and prospects that are developing that are likely to be able to score 15-20 goals playing with McDavid or Drai – Puljijarvi, Yamamoto, Maksimov, Safin, Benson, Marody, Rattie, etc.

    Some have a better chance than others, some are closer than, however, I have very little doubt that the wingers you suggest can be found internally – it may take a year or two but they can be found internally.

    The ability to move the puck up the ice to our forwards is key – our inability to do so is our biggest even strength deficiency.

  60. OriginalPouzar says:

    rickithebear:
    Someone might want to educate Johnathan Willis on how out of touch he is in his JP article!
    LT?

    Sorry for facts!

    Bonus structure of ELC may have a slight affect on who gets easier push.

    Potential cap hit
    Jp 3.5M
    Yamamoto 1.55m

    Do you see Jesse Puljijarvi coming even remotely close to vesting any of his Schedule B bonuses next year?

    If he does, he’s had a huge season and provided a massive value contract (and is going to be very expensive for 2019/20.

  61. rickithebear says:

    What you really want is
    HD dmen who have strong even transition.
    Guys like
    Larsson
    Chara
    K. Miller
    C. Miller

    Ian Cole UFA

  62. pts2pndr says:

    Dustylegnd: don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you suggesting that because the Oilers did the sensible thing, rewarded Yamo for his pre season performance against the same talent all the other non established players on the team played against……somehow his 10 game trial did irreparable damage to the rest of the season forcing them to miss the playoffs?

    Or was it shit tending by Talbot mixed in with injuries to 2 of the top 4 D men on an already thin D, or was it Leons injury and subsequent less than peak performance?

    I think the Oilers have a real player in Yamo, I don’t understand the haters (and I understand you are hating on management not the player)

    You may include me in your hater crowd but the truth is I hope you are right and I am wrong. The following are facts as I saw them:
    1. Yamamoto is not an elite skater and was not the fastest skater of the other first year oilers at the Young Star Tournament
    2. Yamamoto was almost invisible at the world junior tournament
    3. Yamamoto had in his final year of junior 1/2 a season that showed promise but did not finish in the to 35 in his conference in scoring
    4. Was virtually invisible in the plaoffs where his tteam got sent home early.

    He may have not been 100 percent in the playoffs. Given the above there has been very little to indicate the high expectations the people who call me a hater have! Given the above it s imperative that we do not saddle this young man with unrealistic expectations. He has enough pressure already!

  63. rickithebear says:

    Wilde:
    So uh, Letang appears to be wearing out his welcome…

    Paraphrase:

    He sucks at defence

  64. Alpine says:

    pts2pndr: You may include me in your hater crowd but the truth is I hope you are right and I am wrong. The following are facts as I saw them:
    1. Yamamoto is not an elite skater and was not the fastest skater of the other first year oilers at the Young Star Tournament
    2. Yamamoto was almost invisible at the world junior tournament
    3. Yamamoto had in his final year of junior 1/2 a season that showed promise but did not finish in the to 35 in his conference in scoring
    4. Was virtually invisible in the plaoffs where his tteam got sent home early.

    He may have not been 100 percent in the playoffs. Given the above there has been very little to indicate the high expectations the people who call me a hater have! Given the above it s imperative that we do not saddle this young man with unrealistic expectations. He has enough pressure already!

    Yamamoto played 40 games in the WHL, not finishing top 35 isn’t a big deal. Vast majority of the guys with more points played like 15-20 games more than him, some even 65-70 games.

  65. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer: Well thanks for making my point that JP started the season in the doghouse.Doesnt it strike you odd that Yamamoto got the Mcdavid treatment while JP had to earn it?

    No.

    KY got an audition.
    He was never going to stay the year.

    JP started in BAK to make room for KY’s 9 games.

    I didn’t agree with the idea, but to say KY’s 7 games with 97 means that the team slotted him there is a stretch.

  66. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    rickithebear:
    19 year old Jesse was used @even
    We received Top prospect even goal production.

    19 yr season evgpg
    Barkov .183
    Horvat .176
    Mackinnon .172
    Dubois .170
    Perron .161
    Duchene .160
    Tavares .159
    Puljujarvi 65gm 10 evg .154
    Galchenyuk .154
    Ehlers .153
    Couturier .143
    Seguin .135
    O,Reilly .135
    M. Tkachuk .132
    Voracek .113
    N. Patrick .110f
    J. stall .110
    Folks need to readjust the incorrect idea of what elite 19 yr old production is. Puljujarvi was real good considering line mates and his quality 200 ft game to players on this list.

    Thanks for that Mr. The Bear

    I hope your treatments work and wish you the best.

  67. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde:
    So uh, Letang appears to be wearing out his welcome…

    another Famous Dman Vampire

  68. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I can’t provide a link as I can’t remember where I read it but I do remember reading Puljijarvi’s quotes shortly after the season ended about needing to focus on off-season training and the organization’s instructions in that regard.

    He was 18 at the end of last off-season – I don’t think we should be surprised that he didn’t train like Crosby while back in Finland.

    He’s learning all facets of the game, including the proper way to train in the off-season.

    I heard that too.

    Think it was Stauffer’s end of year stuff.

    I expect some nice progression from him next year.

  69. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Faulk had 12 even strength points this past year (Darnell Nurse had 26).

    Faulk has regrssed for 2-3 years straight now.

    Faulk is awful in his own zone, regressing.

    The numbers show that Faulk is a drag on every single partner that is paired with him.

    ———————————————–

    I’m on record as stating that the one material acquisition I want to see, the only place I want material cap space committed to, is a right shot puck moving D for the top 6.

    3 years ago, this player would be a nice addition for that spot but I’m not sure he’s an adequate top 4 D at this point.

    Is he any more than a 3RD and PP specialist?

    I don’t think he can be trusted to play top 4 minutes and, in that regard, I don’t want to acquire him – not to mention we’d likely overpay for him and need to send additional cap out to make it work.

    I’m not arguing we should try to add Faulk, but what is the evidence he’s regressing? He’s been a positive CF% (and better than team average) each of the past 4 years. 17-18 was his best season at over 55% (2nd among D on Car). He’s accompanied that with PDOs between 967 and 974 (consistently terrible) and a raw +/- between -18 and -26 (consistently terrible). So no doubt this player has issues, likely related to Ricki’s HD box, but he’s actually been very consistent by the numbers. He apparently was not good 3 years ago either.

    On a related note, Klefbom has had similar atrocious PDOs save for last season. He looked like a passable 1st pairing defenseman with his PDO in the black for the first time in 16-17, but it was back to 972 this season. I wonder if Faulk for Klefbom is actually a pretty reasonable move to even out the handedness. I’m hoping 16-17 Klefbom is the real Klefobm, but not convinced. The contracts are fairly comparable, though the years under control obviously favor Klefbom heavily.

  70. jp says:

    Alpine: Yamamoto played 40 games in the WHL, not finishing top 35 isn’t a big deal. Vast majority of the guys with more points played like 15-20 games more than him, some even 65-70 games.

    Yeah, he was 7th in Pts/Game.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    pts2pndr: You may include me in your hater crowd but the truth is I hope you are right and I am wrong. The following are facts as I saw them:
    1. Yamamoto is not an elite skater and was not the fastest skater of the other first year oilers at the Young Star Tournament
    2. Yamamoto was almost invisible at the world junior tournament
    3. Yamamoto had in his final year of junior 1/2 a season that showed promise but did not finish in the to 35 in his conference in scoring
    4. Was virtually invisible in the plaoffs where his tteam got sent home early.

    He may have not been 100 percent in the playoffs. Given the above there has been very little to indicate the high expectations the people who call me a hater have! Given the above it s imperative that we do not saddle this young man with unrealistic expectations. He has enough pressure already!

    After a real tough start, he ended up finishing 7th in the Western Hockey League in P/Game. Given time in NHL, time at the WJHC, etc. I think that stat is a big more fair than overall points.

    He was definitely injured in the playoffs – he missed the last few games of the regular season with a “lower body injury”, if I remember correctly.

    My expectations of him for this coming year remain leveled, I don’t know what to expect but I did want to respond to the points above.

  72. Alpine says:

    jp,

    I don’t think CAR has any need for Klefbom. They have Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury on the left side and only Pesce aside from Faulk on the right.

    Said trade would have to be a three way with another team that needs Klefbom. New Jersey for example.

    To EDM: Faulk, Quenneville
    To NJ: Klefbom, Car 2nd
    To Car: NJ 1st, Benning

    Or something similar. I bet the Oilers might covet Quenneville, he’s got Chia size, good AHL Numbers, 1st rounder pedigree. Sucks to move Benning and Klefbom but the Oilers could probably save money on a new RH 6/7 D.

  73. VOR says:

    I want to take a moment and go way back in time to a draft I think tells us how important this year’s draft might be to the Edmonton Oilers.

    This story features a young defenceman with a world of talent in a draft filled with outstanding dmen as our story opens his draft stock is in free fall. It is in article about him written just before the draft that I first saw the word entitled applied to a hockey player. There were well sourced stories of after hours partying and locker room ego. To be fair it isn’t just his attitude or his name that caused his stock to plunge. People weren’t convinced he even planned to play NHL hockey and he was really small for an NHL defenceman.

    It also features a team with a generational talent and a lot of good young pieces. But the Coach and GM both believe that the locker room culture is broken. The team isn’t a team it is a bunch of gutless wonders. The solution is obvious. Draft a bunch of knuckle dragging character guys.

    They would draft 19 times that day. I am not making that up. The scouts knew their mission. Find the best goons, draft the best goons. Can anybody see any problem with this approach?

    So fourth overall they drafted a guy who was the most feared fighter in the WHL. In Regina he had become so feared a pugilist that nobody would fight him. The problem was he didn’t think of himself as a fighter. He just wanted to be allowed to play hockey.

    The team was picking again at 22nd OV and this is where the story gets really interesting. The talented D, the one with all the talent and all the baggage was still available. So was the second best fighter in the WHL. A kid from Swift Current. Who can score and let’s understate and say the fans worship him. Who plays on arguably one of the best, and easily the toughest line in Junior. This is a kid who will sell tickets and define heart and soul.

    The scouts to a man want the dman. They want to totally abandon the goon strategy and take the BPA. The GM is convinced the locker room problem is real and has to be fixed. He settles on an outrageous gamble, option C.

    He drafts the center, the agitating, obnoxious center ice man from Swift Current. The guy who starts the fights his linemate finishes. Did I mention he is small and slow? But he has a whack load of intangibles.

    Years later rival GMs will call it the gutsiest draft pick in history. Despite what many fans think GMs aren’t total idiots. They know there is no way even the greatest set of intangibles in the world can make up for too small, too slow, and not talented enough. But let’s be clear scouts all agreed the kid had the biggest heart of any player they had ever seen.

    So three picks later Boston takes the best player in the draft, the dman with all the negative press. He was then and still remains the perfect model of a modern defenceman. Ricki would love him and so would Woodguy. I know plus minus is frowned on here but it is kind of hard not to be impressed by that +400.

    Meanwhile the team this story is about went right on taking knuckle draggers and tough guys. Their 7th pick of that draft is typical. He’s a huge, hulking stay at home D who loves to hit and to fight. Ironically, in Edmonton he will become a favourite of Oilers fans.

    Only once in 19 rounds will they take a player because he is talented. With their 14th pick they took a puck moving Euro D.

    15 out of 19 picks never played a game in the NHL.

    Yet some scout years ago called it “The House of the Rising Sun” draft.

    The kid taken fourth, Clark Gillies, might not have wanted to fight but one night in the playoffs after fans had largely written him off as either a willing or able fighter he’d beat Dave Schultz on points in one of the greatest fights in hockey history. Two nights later in the rematch he nearly killed Schultz and suddenly the Broadstreet Bullies weren’t the toughest opponent in hockey any more.

    Oh and he became 1/3 of arguably the greatest line in hockey history.

    The kid taken 22nd OV, Bryan Trottier, well he is why there are GMs, smart ones, who think intangibles matter. From the moment he walked into an NHL dressing room he set a new standard for hard work and commitment and he has 6 Stanley Cup rings to show for it. Yes he had the right teammates, Bob Bourne, John Tonnelli, Butch Goring, etc to lead but sweet Jesus he lead the hell out of them.

    Oh and he centered arguably the greatest line in hockey history.

    The kid they took with their 7th pick opted for the WHA. It took him a while to win Oilers fans over but trust me, we came to love Dave Langevin, but the Islanders got him back when the NHL shafted the old WHA teams. He got to be an important part of 4 Cup teams on the Island.

    Stefan Persson is sort of the forgotten man in this story. Along with Butch Goring he’d be a key player in turning the New York Islanders into Stanley Cup Champions. In a contract dispute they traded him to Winnipeg. Persson refused to report and retired instead.

    Now you might think I am advocating drafting for character. I’m not. You might think I am saying the Oilers need to do as good a job of drafting as the Islanders did in 1974. I’m not. I think the Oilers are much closer to greatness than the Islanders were then. They don’t need to draft Gillies, Trottier, Langevin, and Persson.

    What I am saying is if they get a chance to draft a Dman with the most talent in the draft and the worst press you ignore every other GM, you leave the great character leader on the board and you take a truly courageous gamble. You bet that the talent you possess at 17 matters a lot more than the character you display at 17.

    This year all the Oilers need to do is be spectacularly right once.

    This year all the Oilers need to do is draft Mark Howe.

  74. Side says:

    hunter1909: Good teams understand pre season points are meaningless.

    Bad teams think players who excel in pre season are slam dunks to start the season on 10 game “trials” which offer nothing but a glimpse of a player up against NHL opposition who aren’t even yet skating properly.

    Meanwhile, rookies play like rookies more often than not, and the team suffers. So what’s so good about this?

    I get it. Oilers are a hopelessly poor team, managed by tenured dolts.

    I’m guessing you missed the thread that had KY’s numbers during his 9 game tenor which showed he was one of the better forwards during that period and was not holding his team back?

  75. hunter1909 says:

    Dustylegnd: don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you suggesting that because the Oilers did the sensible thing, rewarded Yamo for his pre season performance against the same talent all the other non established players on the team played against……somehow his 10 game trial did irreparable damage to the rest of the season forcing them to miss the playoffs?

    Or was it shit tending by Talbot mixed in with injuries to 2 of the top 4 D men on an already thin D, or was it Leons injury and subsequent less than peak performance?

    I think the Oilers have a real player in Yamo, I don’t understand the haters (and I understand you are hating on management not the player)

    Let’s put it this way:

    If the Oilers ran a goat at left wing, I’d still blame management.

  76. LadiesloveSmid says:

    I hope they keep Klefbom, Pulju, Yam and avoid Faulk.

    They could use Demers in Russell’s place, and a top 6 winger to be safe. Losing Slepy will hurt I’m thinking. They have 7 wingers signed for next season (if Khaira is C not LW), and Rattie and Yam should not be completely counted on as NHLers, Rattie especially.

    Maroon return? Vanek? Trade futures for one? Domi? Dzingel?

    Stay the course with core players and don’t let Chiarelli make a major trade.

  77. Alpine says:

    VOR,

    Great story, VOR. Is this a plead for the Oilers to draft Ryan Merkley?

  78. Alpine says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    I hope they keep Klefbom, Pulju, Yam and avoid Faulk.

    They could use Demers in Russell’s place, and a top 6 winger to be safe. Losing Slepy will hurt I’m thinking. They have 7 wingers signed for next season (if Khaira is C not LW), and Rattie and Yam should not be completely counted on as NHLers, Rattie especially.

    Maroon return? Vanek? Trade futures for one? Domi? Dzingel?

    Stay the course with core players and don’t let Chiarelli make a major trade.

    I want to avoid Faulk too unless we get him for cheap. However even in obtaining Faulk for cheap, one would very likely have to move out salary to fit him in. Or any other RHD that costs over 4 mil. The sweet spot is to probably find a way to get a cheaper RHD who can outperform his deal.

  79. Richard S.S. says:

    Kailer Yamamoto was touted as a top ten pick that dropped to the Oilers at pick #22 because of his size not his talent.

    In preseason, he is playing against players with comparable talent also desparately trying to make their Team – preseason numbers for first timers are a wee bit more significant than in other years. The numbers just validated his selection.

    His playing time in his nine were to evaluate where he is and what he might be. Playing with who he did is to encourage his progress in the future. It’s all about the carrot and the stick.

    Jesse Puljujarvi had things to accomplish in his offseason and needed to be evaluated in the AHL to determine what he learned, how well he’d progressed. It advised the Oiler of what he still needed to learn and best where to learn it and how fast. The rest is history. In the Doghouse – what utter nonsense!!!

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    Is there any reason we aren’t acquiring Josh Leivo?

  81. Munny says:

    VOR,

    I had no idea that Mark Howe had a bad rep coming into that draft. Seems almost impossible considering the pedigree.

    Always loved/hated Persson.

    Wasn’t Paiement the consensus #1 that draft, but the Caps strangely took Joly (who was also highly ranked)?

  82. Rondo says:

    Alpine:
    VOR,

    Great story, VOR. Is this a plead for the Oilers to draft Ryan Merkley?

    Merkley not in the 1st round. The guy fights with his teammates and coach and plays no defense. Has been a healthy scratch because of his attitude.

  83. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Alpine:
    jp,

    I don’t think CAR has any need for Klefbom. They have Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury on the left side and only Pesce aside from Faulk on the right.

    They have more than Pesce and Faulk on the right.

    TVR has has two very high end Relative Team Mate GF% seasons in a row:

    Player Season RelT GF%
    TREVOR.VAN RIEMSDYK 2014-2015 -0.39
    TREVOR.VAN RIEMSDYK 2015-2016 -3.23
    TREVOR.VAN RIEMSDYK 2016-2017 10.29
    TREVOR.VAN RIEMSDYK 2017-2018 13.32

    Now, 3rd pairing Dmen often lead the team in this metric due to QoC and the Head Coach getting his scoring lines out vs the dregs at home, so don’t get fooled by 3rd pairing Dmen and this metric.

    That said, TVR’s RelT GF% is out of this world both years, which probably indicates he’s ready for 2nd pair duty (among other metrics)

    Other than TVR CAR has one of Vor’s favorites Roland McKeown he finished the last 7 games of the season with CAR.

    If I’m running CAR I try to move Faulk for a scoring winger or C, promote TVR and slot McKeown at 7D, sign a stop gap 3RD who can play 2RD in a pinch if TVR stumbles/gets hurt and who you don’t mind sitting if McKeown succeeds. Someone like Pateryn or similar.

    Also,

    I posted this the other day on Faulk.:http://lowetide.ca/2018/05/02/too-much-month-at-the-end-of-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-739219

    I think you nailed in that he’s not a good Rickibox player. He has given up more than he has created his whole career and I don’t think you can have that in your top 4 at $4.8MM and succeed.

  84. Munny says:

    I don’t see the Oilers making a move for a 2RD unless they are convinced Rusty is not that guy. I’m not sure they are convinced of this at all.

    But if they are convinced of that fact then there is no room for both him and Sekera on the squad and one will have to be dealt, NTCs notwithstanding. Or they give up on KBomb’s health, but I doubt they will yet, because the price point is too sweet.

  85. Munny says:

    Charlie McAvoy is just an unbelievable defenseman for his age.

  86. Munny says:

    Bolts move on, barring a miracle.

  87. Alpine says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Shit, totally forgot about TVR.

    You’re probably right that the Oilers don’t touch Faulk based on Rickibox stuff. We know by now the Oilers probably like goal based metrics. I hope they’re looking at someone like Pysyk. The Computer Boys still have a bit of influence there but Tallon is still Tallon.

  88. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0: No.

    KY got an audition.
    He was never going to stay the year.

    JP started in BAK to make room for KY’s 9 games.

    I didn’t agree with the idea, but to say KY’s 7 games with 97 means that the team slotted him there is a stretch.

    Now think about that for two seconds. A guy that was drafted in the top 5 of the draft the year prior where you expect a top line player or franchise player is moved to the AHL so a different prospect, one who was just picked and is definitely not ready can have a cup of coffee? Makes 0 sense

  89. leadfarmer says:

    Munny,

    Dont let ricki hear you say that.

  90. --hudson-- says:

    VOR,

    You might be interested in this story from Clark Gillies on his rivalry with Behn Wilson.
    https://youtu.be/C1Ri8nyE2Wg

    Fun story!

  91. VOR says:

    Munny:
    VOR,

    I had no idea that Mark Howe had a bad rep coming into that draft. Seems almost impossible considering the pedigree.

    Always loved/hated Persson.

    Wasn’t Paiement the consensus #1 that draft, but the Caps strangely took Joly (who was also highly ranked)?

    It seems impossible given who he became and who his father was. His father was part of the problem. Every one of the negative reports I have read from back then allege he got special treatment with the Junior Redwings because of who his father was. And with the USHL. And even in the OHA. His Mom comes up a number of times as well. The most serious allegations were that he’d started to expect that treatment and that coaches were scared to discipline him because of who he was and that he ran a bit wild and was really hard to coach.

    I am not sure how true any of those allegations were. But remember this is the league where a number of NHL GMs believed the rumour that Peter Forsberg took shifts off. I don’t remember Forsberg ever taking a shift off in the NHL. Rumours aren’t always based in fact.

    One of many reasons I think talent should get the benefit of the doubt every time.

  92. Lowetide says:

    A quick addition to VOR’s cool story above, Trottier and Howe were underage players, something that was brand new in 1974. The NHL grew tired of WHA teams drafting teenages (NHL draft was 20 year olds) and allowed teams to draft ONE underage player in either round one or two, but none after the second round.

    Trottier was the No. 11 player chosen under those circumstances, Howe No. 12. The two men chosen afterward (who were teenagers) Bob Hess and Guy Chouinard. |Fascinating draft even today.

    http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1974/74main.htm

  93. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Faulk had 12 even strength points this past year (Darnell Nurse had 26).

    Faulk has regrssed for 2-3 years straight now.

    Faulk is awful in his own zone, regressing.

    The numbers show that Faulk is a drag on every single partner that is paired with him.

    ———————————————–

    I’m on record as stating that the one material acquisition I want to see, the only place I want material cap space committed to, is a right shot puck moving D for the top 6.

    3 years ago, this player would be a nice addition for that spot but I’m not sure he’s an adequate top 4 D at this point.

    Is he any more than a 3RD and PP specialist?

    I don’t think he can be trusted to play top 4 minutes and, in that regard, I don’t want to acquire him – not to mention we’d likely overpay for him and need to send additional cap out to make it work.

    I looked at the numbers some weeks ago and came to the conclusion that Faulk isn’t as good as Benning 5v5. Sad to think knowledgeable people think JP is a fair price to pay.

  94. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Alpine:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Shit, totally forgot about TVR.

    You’re probably right that the Oilers don’t touch Faulk based on Rickibox stuff. We know by now the Oilers probably like goal based metrics. I hope they’re looking at someone like Pysyk. The Computer Boys still have a bit of influence there but Tallon is still Tallon.

    Love Pysyk too.

    The one the don’t like as much is Petrovic.

    Not sure he can play 2RD though

  95. VOR says:

    Munny:
    VOR,

    I had no idea that Mark Howe had a bad rep coming into that draft. Seems almost impossible considering the pedigree.

    Always loved/hated Persson.

    Wasn’t Paiement the consensus #1 that draft, but the Caps strangely took Joly (who was also highly ranked)?

    I think you are right about Paiement.

  96. Professor Q says:

    leadfarmer: Well thanks for making my point that JP started the season in the doghouse.Doesnt it strike you odd that Yamamoto got the Mcdavid treatment while JP had to earn it?

    To be fair, wasn’t Yamamoto one of Edmonton’s best players in preseason?

  97. Side says:

    Professor Q: To be fair, wasn’t Yamamoto one of Edmonton’s best players in preseason?

    It apparently doesn’t matter. People think KY should have been immediately sent down for *insert arbitrary reasons here*.

  98. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer: Now think about that for two seconds.A guy that was drafted in the top 5 of the draft the year prior where you expect a top line player or franchise player is moved to the AHL so a different prospect, one who was just picked and is definitely not ready can have a cup of coffee?Makes 0 sense

    What does draft position have to do with it?

    Where JP was drafted is immaterial to what he’s ready for.

    Also, I think JP was the only waiver exempt forward on the active roster.

    JJ had to clear waivers this year and Slepy was on IR.

    So instead of framing it in a negative JP issue, you could also write “EDM sent down the only waiver exempt forward to give KY his 9 games”

    As I said before, I disagree with KY’s audition, but framing it in the way you are is far too much the other way imo.

  99. godot10 says:

    VOR:
    I want to take a moment and go way back in time to a draft I think tells us how important this year’s draft might be to the Edmonton Oilers.

    This story features a young defenceman with a world of talent in a draft filled with outstanding dmen as our story opens his draft stock is in free fall. It is in article about him written just before the draft that I first saw the word entitled applied to a hockey player. There were well sourced stories of after hours partying and locker room ego. To be fair it isn’t just his attitude or his name that caused his stock to plunge. People weren’t convinced he even planned to play NHL hockey and he was really small for an NHL defenceman.

    It also features a team with a generational talent and a lot of good young pieces. But the Coach and GM both believe that the locker room culture is broken. The team isn’t a team it is a bunch of gutless wonders. The solution is obvious. Draft a bunch of knuckle dragging character guys.

    They would draft 19 times that day. I am not making that up. The scouts knew their mission. Find the best goons, draft the best goons. Can anybody see any problem with this approach?

    So fourth overall they drafted a guy who was the most feared fighter in the WHL. In Regina he had become so feared a pugilist that nobody would fight him. The problem was he didn’t think of himself as a fighter. He just wanted to be allowed to play hockey.

    The team was picking again at 22nd OV and this is where the story gets really interesting. The talented D, the one with all the talent and all the baggage was still available. So was the second best fighter in the WHL. A kid from Swift Current. Who can score and let’s understate and say the fans worship him. Who plays on arguably one of the best, and easily the toughest line in Junior. This is a kid who will sell tickets and define heart and soul.

    The scouts to a man want the dman. They want to totally abandon the goon strategy and take the BPA. The GM is convinced the locker room problem is real and has to be fixed. He settles on an outrageous gamble, option C.

    He drafts the center, the agitating, obnoxious center ice man from Swift Current. The guy who starts the fights his linemate finishes. Did I mention he is small and slow? But he has a whack load of intangibles.

    Years later rival GMs will call it the gutsiest draft pick in history. Despite what many fans think GMs aren’t total idiots. They know there is no way even the greatest set of intangibles in the world can make up for too small, too slow, and not talented enough. But let’s be clear scouts all agreed the kid had the biggest heart of any player they had ever seen.

    So three picks later Boston takes the best player in the draft, the dman with all the negative press. He was then and still remains the perfect model of a modern defenceman. Ricki would love him and so would Woodguy. I know plus minus is frowned on here but it is kind of hard not to be impressed by that +400.

    Meanwhile the team this story is about went right on taking knuckle draggers and tough guys. Their 7th pick of that draft is typical. He’s a huge, hulking stay at home D who loves to hit and to fight. Ironically, in Edmonton he will become a favourite of Oilers fans.

    Only once in 19 rounds will they take a player because he is talented. With their 14th pick they took a puck moving Euro D.

    15 out of 19 picks never played a game in the NHL.

    Yet some scout years ago called it “The House of the Rising Sun” draft.

    The kid taken fourth, Clark Gillies, might not have wanted to fight but one night in the playoffs after fans had largely written him off as either a willing or able fighter he’d beat Dave Schultz on points in one of the greatest fights in hockey history. Two nights later in the rematch he nearly killed Schultz and suddenly the Broadstreet Bullies weren’t the toughest opponent in hockey any more.

    Oh and he became 1/3 of arguably the greatest line in hockey history.

    The kid taken 22nd OV, Bryan Trottier, well he is why there are GMs, smart ones, who think intangibles matter. From the moment he walked into an NHL dressing room he set a new standard for hard work and commitment and he has 6 Stanley Cup rings to show for it. Yes he had the right teammates, Bob Bourne, John Tonnelli, Butch Goring, etc to lead but sweet Jesus he lead the hell out of them.

    Oh and he centered arguably the greatest line in hockey history.

    The kid they took with their 7th pick opted for the WHA. It took him a while to win Oilers fans over but trust me, we came to love Dave Langevin, but the Islanders got him back when the NHL shafted the old WHA teams. He got to be an important part of 4 Cup teams on the Island.

    Stefan Persson is sort of the forgotten man in this story. Along with Butch Goring he’d be a key player in turning the New York Islanders into Stanley Cup Champions. In a contract dispute they traded him to Winnipeg. Persson refused to report and retired instead.

    Now you might think I am advocating drafting for character. I’m not. You might think I am saying the Oilers need to do as good a job of drafting as the Islanders did in 1974. I’m not. I think the Oilers are much closer to greatness than the Islanders were then. They don’t need to draft Gillies, Trottier, Langevin, and Persson.

    What I am saying is if they get a chance to draft a Dman with the most talent in the draft and the worst press you ignore every other GM, you leave the great character leader on the board and you take a truly courageous gamble. You bet that the talent you possess at 17 matters a lot more than the character you display at 17.

    This year all the Oilers need to do is be spectacularly right once.

    This year all the Oilers need to do is draft Mark Howe.

    I have some issues with this story. First. Mark Howe didn’t become a defensemen until his last year in with the Houston Aeros, several years after he was drafted. He was an extremely high scoring left wing pretty much exclusively until he was like 22 or 23. Second, he fell in the draft, because he was already playing in the WHA in Houston with his brother and father on a long term contract. And here certainly were zero character issues with him in Houston.

  100. Munny says:

    Lowetide,

    “WHA Secret Amateur Draft”

    The Oil also drafted Gillies in ’74 but alas it was not to be.

  101. godot10 says:

    Professor Q: To be fair, wasn’t Yamamoto one of Edmonton’s best players in preseason?

    Nope….not even close. PDO heater and ridiculous shooting percentage. In nonsense hockey he was gifted Connor McDavivd.

    And when the teams started dressing something resembling a regular seaons roster his play sagged.

  102. godot10 says:

    godot10: I have some issues with this story.First.Mark Howe didn’t become a defensemen until his last year in with the Houston Aeros, several years after he was drafted.He was an extremely high scoring left wing pretty much exclusively until he was like 22 or 23. Second, he fell in the draft, because he was already playing in the WHA in Houston with his brother and father on a long term contract.And here certainly were zero character issues with him in Houston.

    And a lot of that other stuff was the jealousy of others and having to respond to a bunch of stuff relating to whose son he was.

  103. Munny says:

    Professor Q: To be fair, wasn’t Yamamoto one of Edmonton’s best players in preseason?

    He was pretty decent in his 9 regular season games too, but PDO was beating him over the head:

    Lowetide:
    One of the cool things I discovered about Yamamoto in looking at his stats:

    Yamamoto with McDavid: 65.10 in Corsi for 5×5 in 67 minutes
    Yamamoto w/o McDavid: 53.21 in Corsi for 5×5 in 53 minutes.

    Couldn’t cash but he was a nice player in those nine games.

  104. Professor Q says:

    godot10: Nope….not even close. PDO heater and ridiculous shooting percentage.In nonsense hockey he was gifted Connor McDavivd.

    And when the teams started dressing something resembling a regular seaons roster his play sagged.

    What do you mean? He was getting scoring chances that no one else was, even if the capitalization wasn’t occurring (most others on the team didn’t get either chances and capitalization, so it was a bad preseason all around). That likely surprised the coaching and managing staff, especially due to his size and the expected learning curve, and they thought to try it out a bit longer, and likely rode the high from Game 1 after that as well.

    The 9 games may have been too long, and maybe a more experienced RW would have helped keep both Puljujärvi and Yamamoto down (good for both). But as Edmonton didn’t have that, due to various reasons, things didn’t go as smoothly as they could have.

    I still think he did okay and I think he’ll be a great contributor for Edmonton in the future. Hopefully Benson and the pick this year are as well.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny:
    I don’t see the Oilers making a move for a 2RD unless they are convinced Rusty is not that guy.I’m not sure they are convinced of this at all.

    My goodness, how can they not be convinced? Its very clear that he cannot play the right side in the top 4 – well, not if they want to be a team that moves the puck quicker, a stated objective.

    That experiment needs to be over, they need to find a true top 4 right side/shot d-men as the summer’s priority.

  106. Lowetide says:

    Munny:
    Lowetide,

    “WHA Secret Amateur Draft”

    The Oil also drafted Gillies in ’74 but alas it was not to be.

    Haha. That’s true. They would draft and then sign them, NHL would find out after the deed. Wild times.

  107. Munny says:

    My Gord how did the Sharks not score there…

  108. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: My goodness, how can they not be convinced?

    Do you believe that they are?

  109. rickithebear says:

    Munny:
    Charlie McAvoy is just an unbelievable defenseman for his age.

    Chara- Terence
    Ference is a strong HD dman

    Chara – Hamilton
    Hamilton is just an unbelievable dman for his age.

    Chara – Krug
    Krug is just an unbelievable dman for his age

    Chara – Mcavoy
    Mcavoy is just an ……..

  110. leadfarmer says:

    rickithebear: Chara- Terence
    Ferenceis a strong HD dman

    Chara – Hamilton
    Hamilton is just an unbelievable dman for his age.

    Chara – Krug
    Krug is just an unbelievable dman for his age

    Chara– Mcavoy
    Mcavoy is just an ……..

    See told you guys. But Ricki likes his teams pinned in their own zone.

    Modern defenses are really hard to break down once they get set up therefore you need to attack before the opposition gets setup. Rickis defensemen ensure you will be outmanned in all zones

  111. pts2pndr says:

    Side: It apparently doesn’t matter. People think KY should have been immediately sent down for *insert arbitrary reasons here*.

    Side,

    What I believe is that the team did not have a viable fall back position for Connor’s line at right wing! By placing Drai there he ended up with three of four lines in with no established chemistry for the new season. Due to injuries the D was also in a state of flux. When Klefbom was run in the Vancouver game and injured his shoulder everything became a downhill slide. When you add to this the loss of a bonafide NHL player via by out the only thing they had to count on was McDavid and Drai and to a lesser extent Nuge. This is not a recipe for success! Some of this could have been averted in my opinion if training camp and exhibition games gad been handled differently. I won’t even start on what I percieve as correctable errors. To be succint, the team went into the new season cocky!

  112. Munny says:

    That puck will just not go in the net.

  113. rickithebear says:

    leadfarmer: See told you guys.But Ricki likes his teams pinned in their own zone.

    Modern defenses are really hard to break down once they get set up therefore you need to attack before the opposition gets setup.Rickis defensemen ensure you will be outmanned in all zones

    Nothing harder than dmen skating up against NZ trap and d pressing the blue,then collapsing to the blue.

    Speed on each line!
    Transition passing to Fwd ASAP.

    Rocket Science?

    I can personally guarantee not!

  114. LadiesloveSmid says:

    godot10: Nope….not even close. PDO heater and ridiculous shooting percentage.In nonsense hockey he was gifted Connor McDavivd.

    And when the teams started dressing something resembling a regular seaons roster his play sagged.

    Did his play sag? CF and xGF numbers were great, just no one was cashing. If his pre season was a PDO heater, his regular season was a PDO shitter. One could say maybe his shot wasn’t NHL quality yet and that’s why he maybe wasn’t cashing. Saying his play was poor is just trying to fit a narrative. His 9 games give me hope that he can be a full time middle-6 forward this coming season.

  115. rickithebear says:

    Pinned in zone?

    Around the perimeter do not give a ……..

    Corsi that are ( blocked, miss, hit goalie) do not give a ……

  116. leadfarmer says:

    rickithebear: Nothing harder than dmen skating up against NZ trap and d pressing the blue,then collapsing to the blue.

    Speed on each line!
    Transition passing to Fwd ASAP.

    Rocket Science?

    I can personally guarantee not!

    Seems to be since you only value HD corsi against. Nothing you ever list demonstrates any ability of a defenseman to actually move the puck
    And the guys you value are actually some of the worst guys in the league at actually moving the puck. So i guess for some it is rocket science

  117. leadfarmer says:

    rickithebear:
    Pinned in zone?

    Around the perimeter do not give a ……..

    Corsi that are ( blocked, miss, hit goalie) do not give a ……

    Except all the guys you like make sure the forwards are outnumbered 3v5 in the offensive zone making a dump in on goal the only option
    It is the Bear recipe for success. Have the d hang out in the neutral zone just in case. Forwards are for offense right.

  118. Munny says:

    I hate to say this but I have really enjoyed Burkie’s analysis since his “retirement”.

  119. VOR says:

    godot10: And a lot of that other stuff was the jealousy of others and having to respond to a bunch of stuff relating to whose son he was.

    Let me be clear. The point of my story was that a lot of baggage on the part of the BPA at 22OV in 1974 and their own belief in the need to get tougher led the New York Islanders to seriously consider taking Tiger Williams over Mark Howe. Instead they made what was considered even a riskier pick. They took Bryan Trottier, Williams’ partner in crime. They chose heart and it paid off spectacularly (not that Trottier wasn’t a good junior player).

    That led me to realize that the Oilers don’t need to have a great draft like the Islabders in 1974. They just have to draft the most talented players available, not the safest, not the easiest, just the most talented. In 1974 at 22 the talent was Mark Howe.

    Before going on I’d like to acknowledge your comments.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly that jealousy drove the negative comments. Well jealousy and I guess the word I am looking for is cheapness.

    Your other points are also valid but miss my point, or maybe strengthen it.

    To begin, I masked some details to make it harder to see where I was going. I assume most readers knew the Mark Howe story well enough to fill in the blanks.

    However, every team knew Howe was playing WHA hockey and had excelled in his rookie year. Every team also knew Howe was one of the most versatile players in hockey history. Bill Dineen had him playing both positions (albeit he brought Mark Howe the D man along slowly) and it started before that. I think it is two years post draft Howe was a WHA mid season all star as a winger, played the second half of the year as a defenceman and was an all star at that position. But I think it was well understood where Dineen was going at the time of the draft and that Howe was an epic talent.

    Every team knew Howe was eligible to be drafted. Every team new it might be a few years before he played NHL hockey. Any team could have repatriated the Howes. Every team knew how important playing with Marty and his Dad was to Mark. Every team team knew if you drafted Mark you drafted his family. Talent comes at a price, the Howes just made that price clear.

    That ferocious family loyalty and commitment to being paid fairly were all part of the “character” issues thus my comment about cheapness being a factor in the narrative some people were offering up.

    Any team could have had Mark, Marty, and Gordie (who could still really play) for a second, a third and a decent pile of cash plus the patience to wait for their contract window to open or the money to buy them out. That included the New York Islanders. They chose the great Bryan Trottier instead.

    But you can reasonably argue that Mark Howe was the better player.

    My point was the Oilers don’t need to have a draft for the ages. They don’t need to go chasing character (though they probably will). They need to focus on talent. Take the most talented player available at each draft position and forget every other issue, all the noise.

    The noise surrounding Mark Howe blinded teams to a near generational talent.

    Would he have been worth the effort the Islanders would have had to invest? Probably not.

    But consider the Oilers. Imagine Gordie and Mark on Connor’s wings and Marty solidifying our D with Mark starting to emerge as a Hall of Fame defenceman in his spare moments.

    The Oilers are that point where they need to put talent first in all personnel decisions including the draft.

    Or as I said they need to draft Mark Howe.

  120. Munny says:

    VOR,

    Pretty sure Mark was playing the point on the PP before his conversion to Dman. Like, that amazing Marlie team before.

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: Do you believe that they are?

    That would be an aggressive use of the word “convinced”.

  122. Munny says:

    rickithebear: Chara- Terence
    Ferenceis a strong HD dman

    Chara – Hamilton
    Hamilton is just an unbelievable dman for his age.

    Chara – Krug
    Krug is just an unbelievable dman for his age

    Chara– Mcavoy
    Mcavoy is just an ……..

    Krug hardly played with Chara, both being lefties, and Hamilton being on the same team.

    Hamilton got Chara at 35 yo and is a higher draft pick. He continues to produce away from Chara.

    Same with Ference. 10-11 he spent two thirds of his time away from Chara, 11-12 over 90 percent away, same with 2013.

    Today McAvoy was the Bruins best defenseman.

  123. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: That would be an aggressive use of the word “convinced”.

    Well, isn’t that the relevant bit to determining whether the Oilers will make a move for a 2RD?

  124. Wilde says:

    I don’t know how I would explain the massively excessive amount of pre-game and intermission coverage on Ryan Reaves to a new hockey fan if I was watching this game tonight with one.

  125. Munny says:

    In?

    Edit: oh yeah for sure.

    good call.

  126. Lowetide says:

    Munny:
    I hate to say this but I have really enjoyed Burkie’s analysis since his “retirement”.

    He has been excellent

  127. jp says:

    Alpine,

    Woodguy v2.0:

    If I’m running CAR I try to move Faulk for a scoring winger or C, promote TVR and slot McKeown at 7D, sign a stop gap 3RD who can play 2RD in a pinch if TVR stumbles/gets hurt and who you don’t mind sitting if McKeown succeeds.Someone like Pateryn or similar.

    Also,

    I posted this the other day on Faulk.:http://lowetide.ca/2018/05/02/too-much-month-at-the-end-of-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-739219

    I think you nailed in that he’s not a good Rickibox player.He has given up more than he has created his whole career and I don’t think you can have that in your top 4 at $4.8MM and succeed.

    Agreed that Carolina really has no need for Klefbom. As much as anything I was thinking about the Faulk-esque PDO/HD issues Klefbom seems to be having and how his value may not actually be as high as perceived. Any thoughts on that?

    And thanks for the link to your earlier Faulk stuff, didn’t know where to find it.

    The gap between his GF% and everything else is remarkable. He seems to have a slightly positive effect on CF%, I wonder if he could be useful with the right partner?

  128. Side says:

    pts2pndr: Side,

    What I believe is that the team did not have a viable fall back position for Connor’s line at right wing! By placing Drai there he ended up with three of four lines in with no established chemistry for the new season. Due to injuries the D was also in a state of flux. When Klefbom was run in the Vancouver game and injured his shoulder everything became a downhill slide. When you add to this the loss of a bonafide NHL player via by out the only thing they had to count on was McDavid and Drai and to a lesser extent Nuge. This is not a recipe for success! Some of this could have been averted in my opinion if training camp and exhibition games gad been handled differently. I won’t even start on what I percieve as correctable errors. To be succint, the team went into the new season cocky!

    I agree. I think the failure was not having a bonafide winger for McDavid from the get go. That doesn’t change the fact though that KY impressed in pre-season, and he even did well in his 9 games. I don’t blame Oilers management for giving KY a chance, but I do blame them for allowing KY to have a chance by not getting more proven wingers.

  129. Munny says:

    That puck just will not go in.

  130. Munny says:

    Black Jacques Shellac! Vegas hits the jackpot with another series-ending shutout from Fleury.

  131. hunter1909 says:

    Congrats to Vegas lol

    *bandwagon Golden Knights fan*

    ps: Happy to cheer for Winnipeg : 0

  132. Munny says:

    One comment from a scout on Merkley, courtesy of saxon on the storm.

    ‘You wouldn’t take him with the last pick of the first round but you wouldn’t let him get past you if you had the first pick of the second round.’

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: Well, isn’t that the relevant bit to determining whether the Oilers will make a move for a 2RD?

    What I think they should do and they think they should do are not necessarily the same.

    I also said that being convinced was “aggressive” – I think they don’t mind him as an option there (even though they should mind him) but would prefer an upgrade

  134. VOR says:

    How Mark Howe became a defenceman.

    Mark himself says it was in the 1980-1981 season, when he was 25.

    A number of sources disagree.

    His Mom says he was 8. She didn’t believe in young players specializing in one position. So Marty and Mark played defence and forward. They also played other sports. Smart Mom.

    Skip forward to the fall of 1973.

    Mark Howe is determined to make the Houston Aeros. On his own merits and not because of his famous father and teammate. He literally was losing 12 to 15 pounds at each practice. He was getting sicker and sicker.

    Bill Dineen the Aeros coach takes him aside and says “kid, you’ve made the team. Ease up.” By all accounts Mark Howe found that hard to do. Being a family friend Dineen knew Mark had learned the fundamentals of defence, and in an effort to get him to be more relaxed Dineen stuck him out on defence periodically. That didn’t help, it just gave the kid a new position to worry about.

    Dineen is the one who started to tell anyone who’d listen that Mark Howe was a defenceman. At the same time he played him mostly at left wing. Then in 1975-76 Dineen played Howe the first half of the year as a Left Wing the other half as a defenceman. But in 1976-77 it was back to mostly left wing with defence thrown in from time to time. And again in 1977-78. In 1978-79 it looks like Howe only played left wing. In 1979-80 the Hartford Whalers moved him to defence. But he still thought of himself as a left wing, all evidence to the contrary. It is only in 1980 he begins to think of himself as a defenceman.

    Then comes the horrific injury. Defending a 3 on 2 he ends up impaled on the center
    metal rod that gave nets their structural stability – nets used to be a major source of injury. He was impaled on his buttocks. Sounds funny but an inch the other way and he would have probably never played or even walked again. The subsequent infections nearly killed him.

    He was never the same player again, but always a defenceman. A really good defenceman. Arguably the best D in the game over a decade in Philadelphia.

    There is no definitive source that tells us how much of his pre-injury career was spent on defence. Hockeydb has him as a defenceman throughout his career in the WHA. Hockey reference has him as a Left Wing. The Aeros had him in their records as a forward in 1973-74, 74-75, and a Dman thereafter. New England listed him as a LW. The NHL seems to have considered him a D from day one. His data for the Hockey Hall of Fame just confuses matters further by apparently having him play equal amounts of time at both positions during his WHA days.

    I think the important thing is Howe himself believed he had mastered the position and was playing it full time in 1980.

    But then again he was a Howe. In other words an obsessive perfectionist. So who knows.

  135. VOR says:

    It is also very hard to know how seriously NHL teams took Dineen’s ramblings about Howe the defenceman. Or how impressed they were by Howe moving back and forth between positions.

    Hudson, thanks for the link. Gillies is hilarious. A born story teller.

    Interesting side note. At the end of the Gillies story Bob Nystrom is losing a fight with Glen Cochrane. For a few years Cochrane was Mark Howe’s defensive partner.

  136. godot10 says:

    Side: I agree. I think the failure was not having a bonafide winger for McDavid from the get go.That doesn’t change the fact though that KY impressed in pre-season, and he even did well in his 9 games.I don’t blame Oilers management for giving KY a chance, but I do blame them for allowing KY to have a chance by not getting more proven wingers.

    The OIlers did have a bona fide winger for McDavid since the moment he was drafted. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. Add a career AHL’er who can’t play a whit of defense on RW, and McDavid scored goals and points at the highest rate in his NHL career.

    Instead of playing the obvious choice for wing with McDavid, Nugent-Hopkins, they effed around for three years, resulting in being forced to overpay for Draisaitl by playing him with McDavid instead of centre, and then effed around the training camp and beginning of last season with Yamamoto and pissed away and entire season.

  137. deardylan says:

    Good guys go to Heaven. Great teams go to Vegas.

  138. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jp:
    Alpine,

    Agreed that Carolina really has no need for Klefbom. As much as anything I was thinking about the Faulk-esque PDO/HD issues Klefbom seems to be having and how his value may not actually be as high as perceived. Any thoughts on that?

    And thanks for the link to your earlier Faulk stuff, didn’t know where to find it.

    The gap between his GF% and everything else is remarkable. He seems to have a slightly positive effect on CF%, I wonder if he could be useful with the right partner?

    I’m not sure what Faulk would be away from CAR.

    There is a weird combo of shitty rickibox defending, shitty goalering and hardly anyone with a career 5v5 SH% over 8% going on there for years now.

    Maybe some of that goes away now that the coach has gone away and they are starting to add scorers? (love Aho)

    Here is every CAR Dman over the past 5 years who has played at least 2500 minutes

    The results are their GF% – CF% aggregated over the entire time:

    Player GF%-CF%
    JUSTIN.FAULK -9.25
    RON.HAINSEY -7.19
    NOAH.HANIFIN -6.77
    BRETT.PESCE -3.61
    ANDREJ.SEKERA -2.96
    JOHN-MICHAEL.LILES -2.29
    JACCOB.SLAVIN -1.95

    Even in this group he stands out quite a bit.

    Hainsey was better away from Faulk as well and spent a lot of time with him.

    There’s just too much to question for a guy who is supposed to play Top 4 Dman + acquisition cost + cost on the cap.

    The best thing CAR can do is dump him and add a high SH% forward.

  139. Cassandra says:

    Lowetide:
    A quick addition to VOR’s cool story above, Trottier and Howe were underage players, something that was brand new in 1974. The NHL grew tired of WHA teams drafting teenages (NHL draft was 20 year olds) and allowed teams to draft ONE underage player in either round one or two, but none after the second round.

    Trottier was the No. 11 player chosen under those circumstances, Howe No. 12. The two men chosen afterward (who were teenagers) Bob Hess and Guy Chouinard. |Fascinating draft even today.

    http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1974/74main.htm

    Looking at that draft, Pierre Larouche had 251 pts that season. This doesn’t even seem possible.

    But then you look up the league and you see that 5 players scored more than 200 points, and that somebody named Gary MacGregor scored 100 goals, which was good enough to get him drafted #30 overall.

    So what is the story with that league. There must be many.

  140. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: What I think they should do and they think they should do are not necessarily the same.

    I’m sorry, I thought you were replying to this:

    Munny: I don’t see the Oilers making a move for a 2RD unless they are convinced Rusty is not that guy. I’m not sure they are convinced of this at all.

  141. Munny says:

    VOR,

    I had forgotten about the split season. It got a lot of talk at the time.

  142. Side says:

    godot10: The OIlers did have a bona fide winger for McDavid since the moment he was drafted.Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.Add a career AHL’er who can’t play a whit of defense on RW, and McDavid scored goals and points at the highest rate in his NHL career.

    Instead of playing the obvious choice for wing with McDavid, Nugent-Hopkins, they effed around for three years, resulting in being forced to overpay for Draisaitl by playing him with McDavid instead of centre, and then effed around the training camp and beginning of last season with Yamamoto and pissed away and entire season.

    I agree with them taking too long to try McDavid and RNH. But I disagree with it being the obvious choice at the beginning of the year. Drai was a question mark about whether he could drive a line as #2 center. RNH has proven to be a reliable #2. I definitely do not think KY playing 9 games is to blame for a shitty season.

  143. Lowetide says:

    Cassandra: Looking at that draft, Pierre Larouche had 251 pts that season.This doesn’t even seem possible.

    But then you look up the league and you see that 5 players scored more than 200 points, and that somebody named Gary MacGregor scored 100 goals, which was good enough to get him drafted #30 overall.

    So what is the story with that league.There must be many.

    Back in the 1960’s, there was the OHA (now the OHL) but Quebec and Western Canada didn’t have junior leagues as we know them today. Serge Bernier was drafted out of the QJHL in 1967, that was an unusual spot. In 1967, the WHL kind of started as the CMJHL and were promptly banned as an outlaw league.

    By 1971 you would recognize the leagues and teams but the QMJHL was high octane offense compared to the other two. Guy Lafleur scored 130 goals and 209 points in that league in 1970-71 and went No. 1overall. Marcel Dionne, who played in the more established OHA, scored 62-81-143. I think they were similar offensive talents, so that gives you an idea about the gap in leagues.

  144. NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker) says:

    Side: I agree with them taking too long to try McDavid and RNH. But I disagree with it being the obvious choice at the beginning of the year. Drai was a question mark about whether he could drive a line as #2 center. RNH has proven to be a reliable #2. I definitely do not think KY playing 9 games is to blame for a shitty season.

    If Drai was considered a question mark on whether he could drive his own line as a #2 centre there is a major disconnect between the coach and GM (which there may in fact be), becauae $8.5m per on a 5 years of RFA contract is the richest non-McDavid/Eichel 2nd contract in the new CBA to date, and it implies the GM saw him as an elite driver of his own right

  145. Goonar says:

    Sorry this is late, and related to Saturday’s thread, and a wall of text. I just wanted to share some thoughts about Skinner.

    I should acknowledge that I’m slightly biased, seeing as he’s part of my hometown team. That being said, he’s benefited from playing on a better team than Lethbridge. Lethbridge doesn’t do anything wrong, they’re just not quite as good as the Broncos.

    Skinner vs. Hart? I must admit to have only seen Everett twice (those being game 1 & 2 of the WHL finals). I had researched Hart before hand, as I was curious as to whether his save percentage etc was due to him being a modern Hasek behind a weak Everett team or did his team contribute to his success. After the two games (small sample size!) my take is that Hart benefits from the systems quite a bit. That’s not to say he’s not a good/great goalkeeper, but the team is very strong defensively, more so than Swift Current. Every Bronco sorte faced 5 green shirts between the puck and Hart. It is almost impossible to get a clean shot off at him, something the Broncos had no problems doing against every other team in these playoffs. My amateur, non-scout opinion is that had Skinner been fortunate enough to have played for Everett, he would be walking away with the goalie of the year award. There may be a gap in ability between them but, in my opinion, it is much smaller than the hype and Team Canada selections would have you believe.

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker): If Drai was considereda question mark on whether he could drive his own line as a #2 centre there is a major disconnect between the coach and GM (which there may in fact be), becauae $8.5m per on a 5 years of RFA contract is the richest non-McDavid/Eichel 2nd contract in the new CBA to date, and it implies the GM saw him as an elite driver of his own right

    8 years was the length of the contract he signed.

    What the player is ready for in year one, what he has proven by year one does not necessarily equate to what the player is ready for (or will prove) at year 2, 4 or over the term of the contract.

    Chiarelli was clear that ‘in time” he saw/sees Drai as a center – that does not mean, and the contract does not mean, that he had to play center 100% of the time in year 1.

  147. NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker) says:

    OriginalPouzar: 8 years was the length of the contract he signed.

    What the player is ready for in year one, what he has proven by year one does not necessarily equate to what the player is ready for (or will prove) at year 2, 4 or over the term of the contract.

    Chiarelli was clear that ‘in time” he saw/sees Drai as a center – that does not mean, and the contract does not mean, that he had to play center 100% of the time in year 1.

    I disagree with your logic here. I also think you’ve misconstrued what I have said. The contract is a top three at this time (likely surpassed by Matthews, Barzal, etc.) 2nd contract under the new CBA.

    If it were solely based on what he might prove down the line then it was a significant overpayment, even compared with peers like Pastrnak.

    Now, I am not saying that Leon won’t cover the bet. But if a poster is commenting that the Oilers did not know whether Leon could drive his own line, yet they paid him one of the 3 richest second contracts since the new CBA began, well, I don’t know what to tell you.

    I disagree with said poster’s take, and I believe that Chia absolutely believed Leon should be the 2C on his own line, like he showed in the playoffs last year that he was capable of carrying, and that is why he paid him $8.5m x 8.

    McLellan may not have believed that, and with no other viable wings for McDavid, he played Leon a lot on McDavid’s wing. It was probably his way of saying to Chia: “you left me with my hands tied on the wings.” If there was a disconnect between the two, this might have been one of the friction points.

    Personally, I like Leon’s play on his own line better. As much as he is a sublime passer for McDavid, when he is with McDavid, other than on the PP, he moves his feet less and gives the puck to Connor a lot. We need him to be driving his own line and when he is centering his own line he is much more actively lugging the puck up the ice and being involved.

    I don’t think I am alone in seeing that.

    So we really are not that far off in our thoughts, I reckon.

    Cheers.

  148. godot10 says:

    Side: I agree with them taking too long to try McDavid and RNH. But I disagree with it being the obvious choice at the beginning of the year. Drai was a question mark about whether he could drive a line as #2 center. RNH has proven to be a reliable #2. I definitely do not think KY playing 9 games is to blame for a shitty season.

    Begin as you mean to go on.

    Playing Draisaitl as a winger instead as a centre has cause the Oilers all kinds of trouble. A lot of short term thinking in that McLellan decision.

    And I’m not blaming KY. I’m blaming the coach.

  149. godot10 says:

    NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker):

    McLellan may not have believed that, and with no other viable wings for McDavid, he played Leon a lot on McDavid’s wing. It was probably his way of saying to Chia: “you left me with my hands tied on the wings.” If there was a disconnect between the two, this might have been one of the friction points.

    But McLellan DID have a viable winger for McDavid, who was already signed long term, and the Oilers wouldn’t have to pay for the production boost to that player. i.e. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.

  150. NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker) says:

    godot10: But McLellan DID have a viable winger for McDavid, who was already signed long term, and the Oilers wouldn’t have to pay for the production boost to that player.i.e. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.

    Oh, I don’t disagree with that premise. How long have people been begging to see Nuge tried on McDavid’s wing? I was among those voices the past two seasons, even before this one.

  151. OriginalPouzar says:

    In 2016/17, Ryan Nugent Hopkins played, if I remember correctly, 43% of his ice at center against elite competition – he did this in a season where the team earned 103 points, almost won the division and came oh so close to making the conference finals.

    Did Nuge kill those even strength minutes against elite competition? No quite but he did essentially saw off in tough minutes.

    To not move Nugent Hopkins away from center, the position he has played his entire pro career and his junior career is fully justifiable – in particular before Ryan Strome established himself as a viable 3C, which didn’t happen until well in to the second half of the season (not to mention Mark Letestu was struggling at even strength and couldn’t be relied upon for more than 10 even strength minutes and J. Khaira was just establishing himself is a viable every day player).

  152. Side says:

    NYC-Back-to-Tokyo Oil (Gentleman Backpacker): If Drai was considereda question mark on whether he could drive his own line as a #2 centre there is a major disconnect between the coach and GM (which there may in fact be), becauae $8.5m per on a 5 years of RFA contract is the richest non-McDavid/Eichel 2nd contract in the new CBA to date, and it implies the GM saw him as an elite driver of his own right

    Agreed.

    godot10: Begin as you mean to go on.

    Playing Draisaitl as a winger instead as a centre has cause the Oilers all kinds of trouble.A lot of short term thinking in that McLellan decision.

    And I’m not blaming KY.I’m blaming the coach.

    I don’t disagree with this. But it’s not exactly McLellan’s fault for the wingers PC has been giving him. I’d rather have the Oilers run McDavid, RNH and Draisaitl on their own lines where each of them have a complimentary winger who can produce. Not being forced to play one of them on the other’s wing.

  153. Gret99zky says:

    Lowetide: Do you trust this management group to spend wisely summer 2018?

    I wouldn’t trust this management group any further than I could throw them. And with my bad knee I shouldn’t be throwing anybody.

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