Dear Prudence

The ideal time to evaluate young talent is draft year (17), and age 20 in pro hockey. Edmonton has been drafting high in the first round forever (picks arriving in the NHL at 18, skipping the minors). The Oilers haven’t been drafting in the second round much either, making the “forwards in the AHL at 20” discussion a moot point. This year, there’s a good chance we’ll have a few candidates. What should the expectation be for Kailer Yamamoto and Tyler Benson?

THE ATHLETIC!

Great playoff special! Try The Athletic on for size free and see if they enjoy the in-depth, ad-free coverage on the site. Offer is here. There’s a 7-day free trial and the cost for an annual subscription is less than one (or two) coffee per month, depending on where you buy your hot liquid. We have a mountain of good reading to come in the next 30 days at The Athletic Edmonton, including draft coverage, prospect updates and reaction to the deals of summer. Join us, for the Oilers coverage, stay for all of the other brilliant writing on the site.

  • New Lowetide: Laurent Brossoit: 4-year audition results in a career crossroads
  • New Jonathan Willis: Cam Talbot’s performance in 2017-18: Does it inject a note of uncertainty in his future with the Oilers?
  • New Sunaya Sapurji: Oliver Wahlstrom has been in the spotlight for a long time, but his desire to be ‘special’ burns deep
  • Corey Pronman: 2018 NHL draft board.
  • Lowetide: Summer 2018 on a budget. Calling Warren Foegele!
  • Lowetide: Is Stuart Skinner the real thing?
  • Corey Pronman: Draft picks not on my board for 2018.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and Russia: A draft tragedy.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the Republic of Finland
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and Sweden.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the QMJHL.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018Oilers and the WHL.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: Oilers draft history and the OHL
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers and the NCAA.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: The Oilers at the draft: Overagers.
  • Lowetide: Draft 2018: Oilers scouting directors: A history.

AHL NUMBERS AT 20, FORWARDS

This is most of the century and I tried to list everyone .500 and over (added a couple at the end that were close, Edmonton’s AHL team hasn’t had many 20 year olds who played a lot at that age in recent seasons). Yamamoto’s AHL equivalency is 56 points (.683), Benson’s 42 points (.513). So, we should expect Yamamoto to deliver 46 points in a full season as an AHL rookie and for Benson to deliver over 34 points in 68 games with the Condors. Daniel Sprong was the best 20-year old rookie in the AHL this past season, 65 points in 65 games.

Jordan Eberle scored 106 points in 57 games at 19 in the WHL (1.86) and went straight to the NHL. Yamamoto scored 64 points in 40 games at 19 in the WHL (1.60) and we’ll see in the fall. It would be fabulous to have someone of Yamamoto’s ability matriculating in the minors and working for a recall. Based on the list above, the last guy to do it and then emerge as an NHL player was Kyle Brodziak. I don’t think Yamamoto spends a lot of time in California.

In the week after the 2013 draft, I interviewed Michael Parkatti from the Boys on the Bus blog. Parkatti won the Oilers hackathon and did some numbers work for the Oilers before the draft, basically confirming what their scouts were viewing (or possibly raising red flags).

  • Michael Parkatti: “The model really liked Marco Roy. There’s a lot of things to like about the player outwardly, and if you look at the statistics diagnostically it’s not just the point production but also the situation he found himself in. The team he played for this year was very good, but it was one of those situations where he wasn’t being dragged along by anybody. The way I like to look at it was he was the good player on the team, he played an integral part on that team. And you really saw that in the playoffs.”

Marco Roy played mostly fourth line minutes as an AHL rookie, scored 42, 8-10-18 5×5 and he didn’t get a contract. Braden Christoffer got a contract. I think that was a mistake. Teemu Hartikainen was another interesting player, MacT didn’t think he had enough offense (“in today’s NHL, even marginally, you have to be a threat to score”) and sent him away.

HARVEST MOON, 2013

The 2013 draft was Craig MacTavish’s double album. He was very involved in the selections, I imagine a decade of pent up frustration with the scouts passing on players he would have liked to coach in the NHL was too much to resist. He made some solid bets.

  • #7 overall D Darnell Nurse (SS Marie, OHL) 68, 12-29-41. NHLE 4-11-15. I had him ranked 2nd among OHL players this season and 9th overall. I count this as a risk averse selection, and McKenzie (#9) and Pronman (#11) agree. I think he’s going to be a good NHL player, making his living with EV and PK minutes.
  • #56 overall C Marc Olivier-Roy (Blainville-Boisbriand, QMJHL) 65, 29-38-67. NHLE 10-15-25. Offensive talent, fast skater, creative and an expert passer. Outstanding on the backcheck and has a strong 2-way reputation at this early age. Undersized (6.0, 180) but he’s an attractive center and a quality prospect. Enjoyed a terrific playoff (9, 5-11-16) and was 74, 34-49-83 overall this season. I mentioned him here and McKenzie (#59) plus Pronman (#70) had him in the range.
  • #83 overall C Bogdan Yakimov (Nizhnekamsk Russian Jr). 11, 6-7-13. Huge C (6.05. 200) described by one scouting service as “a thickly constructed specimen” which immediately makes me think of the Russian tank Andrei Kovalenko. Strong along the wall and effective at puck retrieval. Isn’t a finesse player. Pronman ranks him #73 (again in the range) and Kent Wilson suggests he’s ranked amidst a group of similar “power forward” prospects like John Hayden, Avery Peterson and Nick Moutrey among others.
  • #88 overall L Anton Slepyshev (UFA, KHL) 11, 4-2-6. NHLE 18-6-24. The most talented player taken in the draft today by the Oilers, Slepyshev is a brilliant hockey player. Pronman has him #45, meaning he’s an exceptional value selection. Pronman: He is an above-average skater, with agility and free movement, as his shiftiness makes him hard to check. He has a plus shot and he knows it, as his mentality is often shoot-first, even from distance. He can still make plays, and he does not have tunnel vision, but his playmaking skills are not his best element.
  • #94 overall R Jackson Houck (Vancouver, WHL). 69, 23-34-57. NHLE 8-12-20. Physical winger with good skills, footspeed is going to be his issue and he’s not a big prospect (6.0, 186). His father Paul was drafted by the Oilers in 1981. Houck sounds like a “tweener”.
  • #96 overall C Kyle Platzer (London, OHL) 65, 5-17-22. NHLE 2-6-8. I had a hard time figuring this player out early on, his numbers are nothing much and he’s no Coke machine. Then I found this from RedlineSkating under the radar because of the embarrassment of riches in the two-time OHL champion London Knights. Although just 5-foot-11 and 185 pounds, Platzer plays with energy and grit, embraces physical contact and doesn’t shy away from the greasy spots in the offensive zone. Platzer lacks elite upside at the NHL level, but is one of those character players who never stops moving his feet and competing.
  • #113th overall L Aidan Muir (Victoria Honda Midget) 37, 17-23-40. A project and a reach. Western College Hockey: He’s a decent skater for his size, though there is still some room for improvement. His biggest attribute is his grit and toughness in the dirty areas of the ice along the boards and in front of the net.
  • #128 overall L Evan Campbell (Langley, BCJHL). 51, 20-46-66 NHLE 5-10-15.  20 years old, 6.01, 175 and headed to U. Mass Lowell this fall or next. The NHLE suggests there’s some offense there but then again he was 19 in the BCJHL this season. Definitely a reach pick.
  • #158 overall D Ben Betker (Everett, WHL). 61, 1-5-6 NHLE 0-2-2. Cody Nickolet says he’s a big, rangy physical defenseman. Needs to work on footspeed. A definite reach selection.
  • #188 overall C Greg Chase (Calgary, WHL). 69, 17-32-49. NHLE 6-11-17. Outstanding value pick, Pronman has him at #99. PronmanScouts praise his offensive mind and vision. He can slow the game down when he has the puck, hit targets through small lanes, and move the puck quickly when need be. He also has good hands, and when he is on, his offensive upside is apparent.

I usually make notes on every player but don’t have time this year. I will say a few things about specific players and the list overall.

  • Markus Niemelainen is not on the list, because Edmonton retains his rights until 2020. The Oilers could rescind their rights on him and he is not tracking well as a possible signee, but I imagine he will not be eligible for this year’s draft (Cap Friendly correctly excludes him).
  • If you are ever wondering about signing dates, CapFriendly has it covered here. It’s under “teams” and then “reserve list”.
  • Hudson Elyniuk is a player of interest, my belief is the Oilers could sign him if Carolina is unable to before the deadline. He’s a big forward with skill and intelligence, the boots are the worry.
  • Jordan Sambrook is a righty blue, two-way defenseman with decent size. I had him No. 105 in his draft year.
  • Adam Mascherin is the best available, I had him at No. 22 on his draft day and will absolutely include him at a good number on my final list this year if it comes to it. Adding Mascherin to Yamamoto and Benson to the graduating class this fall would be an astute move by the organization. What would I trade for Mascherin? Oilers have an extra third-round pick in 2019, I’d trade Drake Caggiula, Aapeli Rasanen or Dylan Wells (or any mid-level prospect) but there are likely to be better offers.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260, we have a helluva show exclusively because of the quality of the guests. The host is prone to daydreaming and rants about snow. Scheduled to appear:

  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey at the Edmonton Journal. Free agency outer marker for the Oilers, Stuart Skinner’s run, WHC, Vegas.
  • Jason Rogers, Japers Rink. He’s on no sleep but the Capitals can punch their ticket to the finals tonight!
  • Sarah McLellan, Star Tribune. The Wild has a new general manager who believes in analytics and has a few tweaks in mind.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

 

 

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90 Responses to "Dear Prudence"

  1. jtblack says:

    I count this as a risk averse selection, and McKenzie (#9) and Pronman (#11) agree. I think he’s going to be a good NHL player, making his living with EV and PK minutes. ***********

    Came exactly as advertised. Who was ranked higher as a dman (the link didnt work for me)?

    Thanks LT for all your great work.

  2. Woogie63 says:

    When was the last time we had 3+ players that were drafted by, developed and were playing for the Oilers’ between the ages of 26-30?

  3. Hemsky is a gangsta says:

    The other day I was bored and did a re-draft of 2013 using McKenzie’s list. You basically end up with Nischushkin and Bjorkstrand instead of Nurse and Slepyshev (only works up to round 5 or so because he only ranked 75 + HM that year). I then tried to do the same for 2014 and gave up after getting Bennett over Draisaitl at #3.

  4. godot10 says:

    Woogie63:
    When was the last time we had 3+ players that were drafted by, developed and were playing for the Oilers’ between the ages of 26-30?

    2005-2006.

    And each GM keeps on doing the same thing…building a doughnut hole team. Petry…gone. Hall…gone. Eberle….gone. Just as they enter their mid-to-late twenties prime.

  5. Jaxon says:

    Would you trade #10 for Mascherin and #15? Would you throw in Kassian as a salary dump? Then gamble on Ryan Merkley having already gotten a substantial prospect to fill a winger need in Mascherin.
    OUT: #10 & Kassian
    IN: Mascherin & #15 (Merkley?)

  6. Jaxon says:

    I think with all the disparity in rankings dropping form #10 to #15 won’t be too big a deal. It seems there are some really great players who will be available still (Markley, Kravtsov, Gruden, Noel, Addison, maybe even Bouchard, Dobson, Veleno, Farabee). I’ve seen Bouchard drop big time on recent lists for some reason. It will be a fun draft day. So unpredictable. There is even a slight possibility that Svechnikov goes first (very slight). If tht happens Zadina will be 3rd for sure, but if Dahlin goes 1st there are some that believe Zadina could go 2nd, which I think is crazy.

  7. Connoreah says:

    Jaxon,

    The more I look at the various rankings (e.g. Pronman), the more I hope we keep #10. It looks very, very likely that the Oilers will end up selecting someone that most people would consider top 7. Hughes. Wahlstrom. Boquist. Dobson. Any one of those 4 could be sitting there when #10 comes up.

    I don’t even think I’d trade up at this point (unless it’s into the number 2 or 3 spot).

  8. godot10 says:

    Jaxon:
    Would you trade #10 for Mascherin and #15? Would you throw in Kassian as a salary dump? Then gamble on Ryan Merkley having already gotten a substantial prospect to fill a winger need in Mascherin.
    OUT: #10 & Kassian
    IN: Mascherin & #15 (Merkley?)

    What information do you have that Macherin would be remotely interested in signing with the Oilers? He won’t sign in Florida and Florida has no state income tax.

  9. Woogie63 says:

    godot10: 2005-2006.

    And each GM keeps on doing the same thing…building a doughnut hole team.Petry…gone.Hall…gone.Eberle….gone.Just as they enter their mid-to-late twenties prime.

    Paajarvi gone, Gagner gone, Dubnyk gone

  10. Tarkus says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t that extra 3rd in ’19 get dealt for Marody?

  11. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think I read yesterday that FLA was looking for a 3rd in return.

    Sounds reasonable if the team is allowed to talk to the player beforehand to confirm he’s will to sign.

    Would need to be careful with the bonuses on the ELC – wouldn’t give him full performance bonus structure.

  12. russ99 says:

    The biggest mistake at OKC was Fleming giving young players with some room to grow 4th line or ECHL time.

    Hope that’s rectified under Woodcroft.

  13. Andy Dufresne says:

    Connoreah:
    Jaxon,

    The more I look at the various rankings (e.g. Pronman), the more I hope we keep #10. It looks very, very likely that the Oilers will end up selecting someone that most people would consider top 7. Hughes. Wahlstrom. Boquist. Dobson. Any one of those 4 could be sitting there when #10 comes up.

    I don’t even think I’d trade up at this point (unless it’s into the number 2 or 3 spot).

    Agreed.

    If one of these players (or someone else the Oilers like equally well) is still available at 10 then they probably make the pick. Otherwise they move the pick or trade down.

    Least likely scenario, trading up to the 3 spot with Montreal….but most posters here would probably not like the cost of doing so.

    Odds to me feel something like
    1) Keep/Make the pick…..45%
    2) Trade the pick…………..35%
    3) Move Down……………….15%
    4) Move Up……………………5%

  14. Munny says:

    Jaxon:
    Would you trade #10 for Mascherin and #15? Would you throw in Kassian as a salary dump? Then gamble on Ryan Merkley having already gotten a substantial prospect to fill a winger need in Mascherin.
    OUT: #10 & Kassian
    IN: Mascherin & #15 (Merkley?)

    Maybe I’m missing the point, but why would you trade anything for Mascherin when he’s unlikely to sign in FLA?

  15. Andy Dufresne says:

    russ99:
    The biggest mistake at OKC was Fleming giving young players with some room to grow 4th line or ECHL time.

    Hope that’s rectified under Woodcroft.

    Agreed.

    Youd think the baseline logic would be that your top forward prospects get Middle Six slottings in the NHL and Top Six slottings in the AHL.

  16. ArmchairGM says:

    Connoreah:
    Jaxon,

    The more I look at the various rankings (e.g. Pronman), the more I hope we keep #10. It looks very, very likely that the Oilers will end up selecting someone that most people would consider top 7. Hughes. Wahlstrom. Boquist. Dobson. Any one of those 4 could be sitting there when #10 comes up.

    I don’t even think I’d trade up at this point (unless it’s into the number 2 or 3 spot).

    I agree with keeping the #10. I can imagine a scenario where trading it makes sense, but it’s unlikely. It would have to be for a clear upgrade, say Klefbom + #10 for OEL or Doughty – if they came with an extension we could live with.

    If there isn’t a superstar coming back with term, I keep the pick and build through the draft.

  17. ArmchairGM says:

    godot10: What information do you have that Macherin would be remotely interested in signing with the Oilers?He won’t sign in Florida and Florida has no state income tax.

    Why does he need that specific information to suggest a trade? The GM has to do the due diligence, not the general public.

    What information do you have that indicates that the Florida State tax (or lack thereof) is even relevant to this conversation?

  18. Harpers Hair says:

    Woogie63: Paajarvi gone, Gagner gone, Dubnyk gone

    Cogliano.

  19. Jaxon says:

    godot10: What information do you have that Macherin would be remotely interested in signing with the Oilers?He won’t sign in Florida and Florida has no state income tax.

    I don’t have any inside info on that of course. But I am assuming that if Mascherin looks around the NHL and sees the lack of NHL wingers (specifically left wingers) in the Oilers’ system. they have a maybe LW in Nugent-Hopkins (3rd line C or 1st line wing?) and then crickets: Lucic is spiralling down, will Caggiula even be re-signed?, Benson still not a sure thing and will likely be in the AHL, Slepyshev is gone, and Aberg plays either side and is most likely a 3rd liner, Khaira seems to be primed for 4th line C. It also gives him the opportunity to play with either McDavid or Draisaitl, so Edmonton would look like a pretty solid choice. For instance, some are speculating his hometown Leafs as a destination, but I think Toronto might look a little crowded with young wingers: Hyman, Brown, Marner, Nylander, and Kapanen already on the team and the veteran Marleau holding down a spot for 2 more seasons. Not to mention Andreas Johnsson who has been great and could crack the lineup in the fall and Josh Leivo still has 1 more year on his RFA contract (Leivo is proof they are hard to crack as a young winger).

  20. Munny says:

    Jaxon,

    Mascherin will likely be in the AHL too this coming season.

  21. --hudson-- says:

    Anaheim:
    Palmieri, Maroon, Hagelin, William Karlsson, Perron, Gardiner, Schultz, Theodore, Vatanen, Frederick Andersen

    All those players are gone. Curious to see what this exercise for every team would prove. Are the Oilers guilty of too many trades, too much value lost, or basically the same as every other club?

  22. Melman says:

    Harpers Hair: Cogliano.

    Dave Manson

  23. Bag of Pucks says:

    Side

    I also don’t think ageism is a comparable stereotype to stereotyping people of colour and/or women.

    Here’s the definition of ageism:

    noun
    prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a person’s age.

    In other words, it’s a prejudice / discrimination comparable to other prejudices or other forms of discrimination. In a civilized society, we don’t get to pick and choose prejudices on the basis of which ones are bad and which ones we sort of agree with…

    Society has reached the point where we know it’s wrong to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.

    Unfortunately, we’re still at a point in our evolution where discriminating against someone on the basis of their age is seen as acceptable or at the very least, not as problematic as other types of discrimination. Your comment above is reflective of that bias.

    I suspect one of the core factors in this is social change in our societies is often driven by younger demographics and this is obviously an issue that does not affect young people negatively. In fact, one could argue that they’re the most frequent perpetrators of this form of prejudice. Older people have never appreciated the ageism they encounter on a regular basis, but they’ve probably got better things to do with the days they have left than try to rally society on the folly of this behaviour. I suspect they also appreciate that these things have a way of coming around and those guilty of ageism today will be the same ones being victimized by it in the future.

  24. Jaxon says:

    Munny: Maybe I’m missing the point, but why would you trade anything for Mascherin when he’s unlikely to sign in FLA?

    I’m certain Florida will trade him somewhere to not lose him for nothing. It will be a question fo how bad teams want him. In his draft year at 5-on-5, he produced primary points at a MacKinnon, Hall, Dubois, Debrincat, Stamkos, Drouin, Seguin, E Kane rate and more than Tavares and Draisaitl. I’d ask permission to speak to him about signing in Edmonton before making a trade, but if he was willing to sign in Edmonton, I’d trade for him and I think the price of dropping from #10 to #15 is reasonable. If they’d take less, then sure, but I’d pay that much. To come out of the draft with Mascherin and #15 would be a major coup in my opinion. It seems there are enough questions about players ranked consensus #10 to #20 to be almost as big a gamble at #10 as #15. Some scouts have Bouchard as low as #19, Farabee as low as #27, etc, etc. Bring team needs into the equation and there might be even more instability.

  25. Jaxon says:

    Munny:
    Jaxon,

    Mascherin will likely be in the AHL too this coming season.

    And there is nothing wrong with that and it wouldn’t reduce his future value to the team. He is still a very substantial prospect. There is a very real vacuum on LW in Edmonton. Maroon is gone, Lucic is molasses, Benson is uncertain, Khaira a likely 4C, Nuge could be back at center (which could be a positive for Mascherin as a 3L), Caggiula could be gone if he doesn’t perform better soon, Aberg could be RW and 3rd line or lower, Slepyshev is gone. He could have a real opportunity to make the squad in Edmonton, which is more a criticism of Edmonton than a praise of Mascherin.

  26. Acumen says:

    Mascherin would be a great get if all it cost was a third. Sounds like a very similar profile to Cammalleri, undersized but well built, great instincts with a wicked one timer, finds good space and plays intellligent, but doesn’t win board battles and is on the slow side. His points seemed to take a dip this year but relative to the rest of his team he was incredible. Bit of a long shot to make it based on his deficiencies (small and slow), but that’s exactly the type of player you want for AHL seasoning and, as mentioned, our LW depth is absolutely dreadful these days.

    Elynuik is very interesting, as Dub-trained 6’5 centermen are always a good bet to at the very least be groomed into effective depth pieces, doubly so with a father who played professionally as an example. This was essentially an over age season in the WHL for him but he’s performed well 2 years running, grew up in Alberta, has familiarity with Yamamoto, and would be another great candidate to season in the AHL as a a quick hack to bolster our prospect depth.

    Given the way we’ve been throwing away draft picks in recent years, I’d definitely be putting in a call for both if I were Chiarelli.

  27. Pink Socks says:

    Craig Custance has an article over at the Athletic on Todd Nelson. (not sure if it’s appropriate to link it). Only read it if you are prepared to be angry.

    Just two snippets:

    “Nelson is wildly popular with his players and his calling card has long been a potent power play. “

    DAMMIT. Can you imagine what he would be able to do with Nuge again as his witch?! Oh and not to mention Draisaitl and the diety himself.

    “Griffins defenseman Joe Hicketts said part of the secret is Nelson’s willingness to try anything to be different. Last season, the Griffins ran four forwards on their power play to take advantage of the talent up front. This year, with more talent on defense, Hicketts said there were times when Grand Rapids had three defensemen on the power play. … Nelly finds what makes everyone tick. He’s not afraid to try new things. “

    This literally sounds like the opposite of the Oilers coaching mantra. If it doesn’t work, keep on trying until you get lucky and it works once.

  28. --hudson-- says:

    Interesting signing by Chicago yesterday.

    @CapFriendly
    Follow Follow @CapFriendly
    More
    Newly signed #Blackhawks forward Dominik Kahun received the max allowable Entry Level salary & bonuses from the club.

    2018-19: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB
    2019-20: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB

    Kahun becomes only the 3rd ever undrafted player to receive max ‘A’ & ‘B’ performance bonuses.

    Anybody know who the first 2 undrafted players to get max bonuses were?

  29. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Jaxon:
    Would you trade #10 for Mascherin and #15? Would you throw in Kassian as a salary dump? Then gamble on Ryan Merkley having already gotten a substantial prospect to fill a winger need in Mascherin.
    OUT: #10 & Kassian
    IN: Mascherin & #15 (Merkley?)

    I don’t think Mascherin is enough to move into the top 10. More or better quality IMO even with Kassian. Kassian has value to certain teams and isn’t a high enough salary as a dump.

    For the right team he’s worth 1.9M. On the Oilers his skills are duplicated and overpaid in Lucic, duplicated and lesser paid in Khaira and Nurse, for a few more weeks.

  30. Munny says:

    Jaxon,

    Acumen,

    Agreed on most points, especially the one that Mascherin isn’t a sure thing either.

    He’s likely worth about a 3rd, and for me that’s not enough payment to move down 5 spots ahead of knowing who will be available at 10 (playing the hand blind as it were).

  31. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Bag of Pucks: Here’s the definition of ageism:

    noun
    prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a person’s age.

    In other words, it’s a prejudice / discrimination comparable to other prejudices or other forms of discrimination. In a civilized society, we don’t get to pick and choose prejudices on the basis of which ones are bad and which ones we sort of agree with…

    Society has reached the point where we know it’s wrong to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.

    Unfortunately, we’re still at a point in our evolution where discriminating against someone on the basis of their age is seen as acceptable or at the very least, not as problematic as other types of discrimination. Your comment above is reflective of that bias.

    I suspect one of the core factors in this is social change in our societies is often driven by younger demographics and this is obviously an issue that does not affect young people negatively. In fact, one could argue that they’re the most frequent perpetrators of this form of prejudice. Older people have never appreciated the ageism they encounter on a regular basis, but they’ve probably got better things to do with the days they have left than try to rally society on the folly of this behaviour. I suspect they also appreciate that these things have a way of coming around and those guilty of ageism today will be the same ones being victimized by it in the future.

    Well put.

    It is also at the height of insensitivity and incredibly smug to have as a feather in your cap and a sign of your own greatness something nobody can control or avoid.

    It’s a reflection of US consumerist pop culture which currently favours youth. It’s a fad.

    Outside of the US and Canada things are more as they always were. Elders more respected because of experience and wisdom gained, which only happens with time and of course experience.

    It’s why you see far more older people in positions of importance or significance.

  32. Pink Socks says:

    Tarkus:
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t that extra 3rd in ’19 get dealt for Marody?

    One of them. We had 3 picks in the third of 2019. Our own, one for Maroon (dealt for Marody), and one for Davidson that we still have available to move out.

  33. stephen sheps says:

    Snowman,

    Don’t know if you’re around today or not, but I’m a little slow on the uptake.

    I echo many of the sentiments expressed yesterday. I lost my dad 15 years ago and I miss him terribly. I was just a kid at the time, barely 21. It was also sudden, so I know what that shock feels like.

    My condolences to you and yours. As my Rabbi often said to me while I was in mourning, I wish you a lot of strength. Lowetide said it best yesterday so I won’t even try to offer any of my own words of wisdom. The truth is we all process these sorts of things differently, but even by checking in with this community yesterday it shows just how strong a person you are. He’s still around, even if you can’t reach out and see him.

  34. Tarkus says:

    Pink Socks: One of them.We had 3 picks in the third of 2019.Our own, one for Maroon (dealt for Marody), and one for Davidson that we still have available to move out.

    Ah yes, forgot about the 3rd for Davidson.

    Many thanks for the correction.

  35. hunter1909 says:

    Pink Socks:
    Craig Custance has an article over at the Athletic on Todd Nelson.(not sure if it’s appropriate to link it). Only read it if you are prepared to be angry.

    Just two snippets:

    “Nelson is wildly popular with his players and his calling card has long been a potent power play. “

    DAMMIT.Can you imagine what he would be able to do with Nuge again as his witch?!Oh and not to mention Draisaitl and the diety himself.

    “Griffins defenseman Joe Hicketts said part of the secret is Nelson’s willingness to try anything to be different. Last season, the Griffins ran four forwards on their power play to take advantage of the talent up front. This year, with more talent on defense, Hicketts said there were times when Grand Rapids had three defensemen on the power play.… Nelly finds what makes everyone tick. He’s not afraid to try new things. “

    This literally sounds like the opposite of the Oilers coaching mantra.If it doesn’t work, keep on trying until you get lucky and it works once.

    Which is exactly why in my opinion, Kevin Lowe moved heaven and earth to make sure he wasn’t hired full time.

    Lowe+MacT still have their “Master Plan” ready and rarin’ to go!

  36. JimmyV1965 says:

    The Evander Kane contract will have some very interesting ripples throughout the league. If he gets $7 mill for 7 years, what does Nylander ask for? He may be an RFA, but he’s also scored 60 pts twice already and Kane has never done that ever. So what’s a reasonable number for Nylander?

  37. VOR says:

    Snowman,

    I don’t know if this will be of any use at all in your time of grieve.

    But after reading your post I started trying to figure out when my Dad died. I couldn’t remember. I am not kidding. I drew a complete blank.

    It was hell when it happened. He died of cancer and it was a slow painful death. I spent weeks at his bedside thinking today would be the day. In the end he passed in his sleep. His heart just gave out.

    It tore me up. He was such a vital part of my existence. I knew even then I’d miss him every day. On the other hand he was a very old man who had a truly incredible life and who was reduced to a bed ridden husk of himself.

    But the years since have been filled with so many other milestones that it no longer seems strange to celebrate or mourn without him.

    My experience has been that the grieve passes so gradually it seems an eternity. Then one day you realize you have more memories than grieve. And finally one day you read a post on a hockey blog and realize while you have hundreds of cherished memories the date of your Dad’s passing is lost in the mists of your own life.

  38. stephen sheps says:

    Wilde: Also, on the ‘consumerist pop culture’ part, I don’t think it’s ever been ‘cool’ to be older and not younger, by pop culture standards.

    Sociology of Pop Culture professor here – you’re right. Consumer culture/pop culture has always been dictated by and for a younger audience. There are lots of reasons for it, but a lot of it has to do with the mass buying power of younger audiences. Many other reasons as well, but I don’t want to clog up the thread with what is essentially my pop culture week 2 lecture or an overriding critique of consumer capitalism, so instead I’ll leave you with this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0wTtiJygY

    Not gonna weigh in on the rest of this stuff though – this place is the wrong place for the rest of that particular conversation.

  39. Wilde says:

    stephen sheps: Sociology of Pop Culture professor here – you’re right. Consumer culture/pop culture has always been dictated by and for a younger audience. There are lots of reasons for it, but a lot of it has to do with the mass buying power of younger audiences. Many other reasons as well, but I don’t want to clog up the thread with what is essentially my pop culture week 2 lecture or an overriding critique of consumer capitalism, so instead I’ll leave you with this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0wTtiJygY

    Not gonna weigh into the rest of this stuff though – this place is the wrong place for the rest of that particular conversation.

    It’s on the list.

    And yes, I’m an idiot.

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    Adam Mascherin – What would I trade for Mascherin? Oilers have an extra third-round pick in 2019, I’d trade Drake Caggiula, Aapeli Rasanen or Dylan Wells (or any mid-level prospect) but there are likely to be better offers.

    ———————————————

    I mentioned Lagesson on another platform – maybe Willie and a 5th (is that 3rd round value)?

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jaxon:
    Would you trade #10 for Mascherin and #15? Would you throw in Kassian as a salary dump? Then gamble on Ryan Merkley having already gotten a substantial prospect to fill a winger need in Mascherin.
    OUT: #10 & Kassian
    IN: Mascherin & #15 (Merkley?)

    If Dobson, Whalstrom aren’t available at 10 then, heck yes – I don’t think there is much to choose between 10-15.

    Wait a second, this doesn’t work – he needs to be signed by June 1 or FLA loses his rights.

    A deal has to be done prior to June 1 or he goes back in to the draft.

    So we could make the trade and swap picks but wouldn’t know who is available at 10 – would it be egregious if we made that deal and ended up trading away Dobson or Whalstrom (for say Smith or Wilde or Valeno)?

  42. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: Maybe I’m missing the point, but why would you trade anything for Mascherin when he’s unlikely to sign in FLA?

    He goes back in to the draft if he’s not signed. If you trade for him (after FLA allows you to talk to his camp and ensure he will sign), the cost will be low for a very good prospect.

  43. stephen sheps says:

    Wilde: It’s on the list.

    And yes, I’m an idiot.

    Not at all… not even close.

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pavel Francouz takes home KHL goaltender of the year – yes the guy that signed in the NHL for about a quarter of what Koskinen signed for ($690K).

    Yes, I’m still flabbergasted by Koskinen’s cap hit and haven’t been able to let it go yet.

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    I know some members really like Vitali Kravtsov – he took home KHL rookie of the year.

  46. OriginalPouzar says:

    As an aside, the KHL give out a best referee and a best linesman award……

  47. Pink Socks says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As an aside, the KHL give out a best referee and a best linesman award……

    Likely these are the officials that tried to help SKA St. Petersburg win the most effectively. Seriously.

  48. hunter1909 says:

    stephen sheps: Consumer culture/pop culture has always been dictated by and for a younger audience. There are lots of reasons for it, but a lot of it has to do with the mass buying power of younger audiences.

    I always thought this was/is the driving force behind pop culture.

    People over the age of 30 are for all intents and purposes culturally deaf, dumb, and blind to new ideas. All the while being bogged down by ridiculous things, like responsible adulthood etc.

    One exception would be disco music; something too horrible for immature ears to listen to.

  49. hunter1909 says:

    Is there anyone who isn’t cheering for Washington tonight?

    Ovechkin really needs to win the cup, and time is running short.

    Tampa I always loved for winning in 2004, but not this year. Ovi or Vegas and hunter1909’s a happy hockey fan.

    JOKE OF THE DAY: An England football player has predicted England will win the World Cup of Soccer which kicks off in Russia next month.

  50. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Pavel Francouz takes home KHL goaltender of the year – yes the guy that signed in the NHL for about a quarter of what Koskinen signed for ($690K).

    Yes, I’m still flabbergasted by Koskinen’s cap hit and haven’t been able to let it go yet.

    Hah, I saw KHL en tweet that and knew you were going to say something about it

  51. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Here’s the definition of ageism:

    noun
    prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a person’s age.

    In other words, it’s a prejudice / discrimination comparable to other prejudices or other forms of discrimination. In a civilized society, we don’t get to pick and choose prejudices on the basis of which ones are bad and which ones we sort of agree with…

    Society has reached the point where we know it’s wrong to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.

    Unfortunately, we’re still at a point in our evolution where discriminating against someone on the basis of their age is seen as acceptable or at the very least, not as problematic as other types of discrimination. Your comment above is reflective of that bias.

    I suspect one of the core factors in this is social change in our societies is often driven by younger demographics and this is obviously an issue that does not affect young people negatively. In fact, one could argue that they’re the most frequent perpetrators of this form of prejudice. Older people have never appreciated the ageism they encounter on a regular basis, but they’ve probably got better things to do with the days they have left than try to rally society on the folly of this behaviour. I suspect they also appreciate that these things have a way of coming around and those guilty of ageism today will be the same ones being victimized by it in the future.

    Thank goodness I don’t have to think like this.

  52. Munny says:

    hunter1909,

    With you 100%, Hunter.

  53. Réal Goudenyéu says:

    hunter1909: I always thought this was/is the driving force behind pop culture.

    People over the age of 30 are for all intents and purposes culturally deaf, dumb, and blind to new ideas. All the while being bogged down by ridiculous things, like responsible adulthood etc.

    One exception would be disco music; something too horrible for immature ears to listen to.

    I hate to break this to you but Nu-Disco is hotter than ever (in certain parts of the world).

    Here’s some Horse Meat Disco for you please feel free to turn it up: https://youtu.be/HQ4VfWqmss8

  54. hunter1909 says:

    Réal Goudenyéu: I hate to break this to you but Nu-Disco is hotter than ever (in certain parts of the world).

    Here’s some Horse Meat Disco for you please feel free to turn it up: https://youtu.be/HQ4VfWqmss8

    Lol no problem. Dance music is disco, it’s all disco but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

    I prefer listening to children practicing violin.

  55. OriginalPouzar says:

    –hudson–:
    Interesting signing by Chicago yesterday.

    @CapFriendly
    Follow Follow @CapFriendly
    More
    Newly signed #Blackhawks forward Dominik Kahun received the max allowable Entry Level salary & bonuses from the club.

    2018-19: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB
    2019-20: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB

    Kahun becomes only the 3rd ever undrafted player to receive max ‘A’ & ‘B’ performance bonuses.

    Anybody know who the first 2 undrafted players to get max bonuses were?

    I read this yesterday and thought to myself “who is this guy that got a max ELC contract?”.

    I don’t like the precedent (even if most of the bonuses are unreachable).

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: Hah, I saw KHL en tweet that and knew you were going to say something about it

    Yup, had no choice – I just can’t find any logical reason for the discrepancy.

  57. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Compare and contrast:

    Pridham, 44, had previously served as assistant to the GM where he assisted with salary cap analysis and collective bargaining agreement interpretation, a role he began in 2014.

    Prior to joining the Maple Leafs, Pridham worked as the senior director of the NHL’s Central Registry department as well as a senior advisor with Central Scouting.

    vs:

    Our assistant to the GM: MacT: Bleeds Oil. went from AHL coach to GM, then interim coach, who hired Dallas, loves red wine.

    – While I’ve never heard of Pridham, I have no doubt he would compete for similar roles in any organization based on his upward progress.

    – Why can’t we get some competent hockey people guys to surround Chia, who have more credentials than bleed Oil? I do like Keith, by all accounts he’s moved up the ranks on merit.

    – MacT, Sutter, Carriere, Howson: they have been in this organization for lengthy periods. Surely there are better, more versed, less group-think guys, who could inject different perspectives

  58. VOR says:

    OriginalPouzar: I read this yesterday and thought to myself “who is this guy that got a max ELC contract?”.

    I don’t like the precedent (even if most of the bonuses are unreachable).

    I have no idea who the other two max contract undrafted players would be, but while trying to find out I did stumble across this interesting article from hockeywriters about the use of undrafted free agents and how their use is increasing.

    https://thehockeywriters.com/entry-level-contracts-help-teams-stay-competitive/

  59. Munny says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux

    We have a former NHL GM doing that job — Howson.

    😉

  60. VOR says:

    –hudson–:
    Interesting signing by Chicago yesterday.

    @CapFriendly
    Follow Follow @CapFriendly
    More
    Newly signed #Blackhawks forward Dominik Kahun received the max allowable Entry Level salary & bonuses from the club.

    2018-19: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB
    2019-20: $925,000 +$2,850,000 PB

    Kahun becomes only the 3rd ever undrafted player to receive max ‘A’ & ‘B’ performance bonuses.

    Anybody know who the first 2 undrafted players to get max bonuses were?

    Do we know if that includes players that signed as college free agents after refusing to sign with their original drafting team? Then Justin Schultz qualifies.

  61. VOR says:

    VOR: Do we know if that includes players that signed as college free agents after refusing to sign with their original drafting team? Then Justin Schultz qualifies.

    I am thinking Tyler Bozak was one max contract. The other eludes me. Probably didn’t play much in the NHL because Bozak is the only person on this list who played more than 100 games and got max A and B.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undrafted_NHL_players_with_100_games_played

  62. Munny says:

    VOR,

    I thought the same and then read “undrafted”.

  63. VOR says:

    Turns out capfriendly gave the asnwer in its twitter feed.

    1. Tyler Bozak
    2. Sergei Plotnikov (I had to look him up)
    3. Dominik Kahun

  64. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Munny:
    Kinger_Oil.redux

    We have a former NHL GM doing that job — Howson.

    – yes: instead of getting good guys, we keep the bad ones and promote them up

  65. Munny says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – yes: instead of getting good guys, we keep the bad ones and promote them up

    Heck, we brought him back, after failing in Ohio.

    Once an Oiler….

  66. Snowman says:

    Thanks again for the kind words and your own stories everyone. I really appreciate it. It’s funny that strangers can provide some comfort in a difficult time but here we are and I’m grateful for that.

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Thanks for taking the time yesterday. I remember my Dad picking me up from baseball too so even that brought back some good memories.

    I did wind up taking that job. It’s been a great decision. I feel like an idiot around the people I work with and I’m working longer hours than I ever have before but I think it’s been worth it so far.

    How have you been doing?

  67. Andy Dufresne says:

    Gulickson and Yawney sign with Oilers

    As per Gregor

    Edit: Gulutzan……sorry….typing too fast

  68. v4ance says:

    We signed Bill Gullickson?

    Since he last pitched for the Expos, I haven’t heard of him moving up thru the hockey ranks!

  69. Andy Dufresne says:

    Snowman,

    Snowman,

    Im sure Im repeating what some have already said.

    When my Mother passed away the greif hit me like a brick wall. It came in waves for many weeks.

    But the truest thing that was said to me at that time (which I found very hard to believe at the time) was that all my memories of her that were bringing such great pain would eventually be the “same memories” which would bring you joy (albeit tinged with melancholy).

    It took about a year…..I hope the time passes quickly for you.

    Today I think about both my deceased parents daily. But 99% of the thoughts bring me happiness. I am able to remember them fondly.

    With great love, comes great sorrow…..only to be replaced once again with great love.

  70. texmex says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Where did you read this? Curious

  71. Andy Dufresne says:

    texmex:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Where did you read this? Curious

    Heard it on the Gregor show at about 5pm today…….Havent been able to find any confirming reports anywhere

    Edit: I guess Im not the only one who heard it .

    Someone posted on HF Boards

    “On his show today Gregor said that he’s got a very good source that says Gulutzan and Yawney are “signed, sealed and delivered” to be assistants here. Sounds like there could be an announcement Friday or Monday. The timing of the announcement could hinge on Swift Current’s result at the Memorial Cup tonight as there’s lots of speculation that their head coach Manny Viveiros could be the third assistant, but Gregor didn’t mention that explicitly.”

  72. Munny says:

    Just say OV.

    Real life beer.

  73. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Compare and contrast:

    Pridham, 44, had previously served as assistant to the GM where he assisted with salary cap analysis and collective bargaining agreement interpretation, a role he began in 2014.

    Prior to joining the Maple Leafs, Pridham worked as the senior director of the NHL’s Central Registry department as well as a senior advisor with Central Scouting.

    vs:

    Our assistant to the GM: MacT: Bleeds Oil.went from AHL coach to GM, then interim coach, who hired Dallas, loves red wine.

    – While I’ve never heard of Pridham, I have no doubt he would compete for similar roles in any organization based on his upward progress.

    – Why can’t we get some competent hockey people guys to surround Chia, who have more credentials than bleed Oil?I do like Keith, by all accounts he’s moved up the ranks on merit.

    – MacT, Sutter, Carriere, Howson: they have been in this organization for lengthy periods. Surely there are better, more versed, less group-think guys, who could inject different perspectives

    I don’t know the exact ownership structures but the oilers are essentially privately held and the Leafs public. Different accountability and being incompetent and keeping a job is much easier when the ultimate accountability is your close buddy. Everything is done to please Katz alone.

  74. VanIsleOil says:

    Dear Prudence, won’t you come out to play
    Dear Prudence, greet the brand new day
    The sun is up, the sky is blue
    It’s beautiful and so are you
    Dear Prudence won’t you come out to play

  75. Andy Dufresne says:

    v4ance:
    We signed Bill Gullickson?

    Since he last pitched for the Expos, I haven’t heard of him moving up thru the hockey ranks!

    lol……..I think I was “channeling” Bill “Spaceman” Lee.

  76. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I don’t know the exact ownership structures but the oilers are essentially privately held and the Leafs public. Different accountability and being incompetent and keeping a job is much easier when the ultimate accountability is your close buddy. Everything is done to please Katz alone.

    – it’s a good point about the ownership structure.

    – as much as I hate the leafs my professional background gravitates towards the structure that mlse puts in place: no one in the structure isn’t there except for merit.

    – as long as shanny and his planny work mlse will give him the reigns.

    – when the wheels fall off he will be fired. There won’t be an emeritus alumni funded by ownership

    – That matters a lot in terms of creating a management culture based on merit that has a trickle down effect to the staff.

  77. Wilde says:

    I don’t mean to alarm anyone but it looks like from a very brief, surface-level checkup on Boston’s powerplay units during Krug’s career that he’s been zoomed by Bergeron there, too.

  78. Munny says:

    Burakowsky puts Caps up 2-0.

  79. Munny says:

    I’m surprised at these tactics by Cooper.

  80. Munny says:

    Burakowsky with another on an awful line change.

  81. --hudson-- says:

    VOR:
    Turns out capfriendly gave the asnwer in its twitter feed.

    1. Tyler Bozak
    2. Sergei Plotnikov (I had to look him up)
    3. Dominik Kahun

    Thanks so much for this and the hockey writers article!

    Artemi Panarin is another player who almost got max bonuses. Just a little shy in year 2.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/artemi-panarin

  82. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Before I stumbled on this site, I was frustrated with having discourse about hockey

    – Listening to this 2nd period talking heads was a reminder of this. Some of the genius quotes in this intermission analysis: “its clear the white and red want to win this game more”. “Hotlby has been wating all his life for this game”, “Ovie is just so into this game, he’s really stepping up”

    – I mean its all just such glib garbage. Thanks LT for having this platform so that I don’t have to “just put in a 110% effort, one period at a time, and just execute”.

  83. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    Congrats to the Ovi and the Washington capitals. Finally got to the dance. My Playoff Finals picks were Washington and San Jose with San Jose coming out on top. Well, I got the caps right… but those dang G-knights…

    Go Caps Go!

  84. Ryan says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    Congrats to the Ovi and the Washington capitals. Finally got to the dance. My Playoff Finals picks were Washington and San Jose with San Jose coming out on top. Well, I got the caps right… but those dang G-knights…

    Go Caps Go!

    I had the Jets vs Bolts.

    My final four was Vegas, Jets, Bolts, and Pens.

  85. Professor Q says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    Congrats to the Ovi and the Washington capitals. Finally got to the dance. My Playoff Finals picks were Washington and San Jose with San Jose coming out on top. Well, I got the caps right… but those dang G-knights…

    Go Caps Go!

    I really had the Jets vs. Lightning (with them beating out Washington), but had jokingly said Vegas would win the Cup at the beginning of the playoffs. This was also under the assumption that Tampa’s firepower from the regular season would be sustained, and that didn’t occur.

    I need to watch what I say…

    Go Caps. I always thought that once OV made it through Crosby and Stamkos, he’d have that extra drive and hunger in the Finals.

  86. Lowetide says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Before I stumbled on this site, I was frustrated with having discourse about hockey

    – Listening to this 2nd period talking heads was a reminder of this.Some of the genius quotes in this intermission analysis: “its clear the white and red want to win this game more”.“Hotlby has been wating all his life for this game”, “Ovie is just so into this game, he’s really stepping up”

    – I mean its all just such glib garbage.Thanks LT for having this platform so that I don’t have to “just put in a 110% effort, one period at a time, and just execute”.

    I get more out of these comments than anyone, so thanks right back.

  87. Lowetide says:

    I had Lightning versus Predators with Nashville winning. Better listen to me next time!

  88. hunter1909 says:

    Caps v Kniggits.

    Finally, a finals matchup that doesn’t make me want to throw up.

    May the best team win.

  89. Ryan says:

    hunter1909:
    Caps v Kniggits.

    Finally, a finals matchup that doesn’t make me want to throw up.

    May the best team win.

    It the knights win, we’ll all be bemoaning the fact that we didn’t leverage our 500-1 odds.

    Some lucky bloke could make $120k on a $400 bet. 300:1 odds.

  90. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide:
    I had Lightning versus Predators with Nashville winning. Better listen to me next time!

    Joke’s on you. I listen to you every day.

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