Oilers at Ducks, G12/07-08

This is Brian Lavender (#8 in photo below, Seals) lining up against Bill Barber, 74-75. Lavender never played for the Oilers but he was drafted by Edmonton in the general player draft that began the league (Feb. 12/72). Not much to say about this game, the bad blood between the GMs might be more interesting than the contest itself.

Oilers are a rebuilding franchise and the Ducks seem disinterested and suffering from a Stanley hangover. I suspect we’ll see Garon in net tonight and am wondering if Pouliot had enough positive events to stay in the lineup alongside Cogliano.

Fun being a fan of this team, we should see a bunch of callups in the next few days as the auditions continue.

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57 Responses to "Oilers at Ducks, G12/07-08"

  1. Lord Bob says:

    If previous history is any indication, the Oilers will come out against a team far better than they are, rock the house, then blow a two-goal lead in the bottom half of the third and lose 4-3 in a shootout.

    Which, sadly, I would interpret as a positive result.

  2. Dennis says:

    There’s no question that I’m not all that close to it;) but doesn’t it seem like the NHL’s overractiing in expecting a possible alterication between Lowe and Burke?

    BTW, I know the Oilers suck on the road but I don’t think it would be a huge upset if they won in Ana tonight. And especially not if Getzlaf isn’t in the lineup. Who’s going to score if he isn’t there and he isn’t there to also help out Perry? Just look at the scoresheet from their loss vs the Yotes: that’s a bad fucking team right there. They’ve lost their soft min destroyer, one of the league’s best dmen and they lost depth in Penner as well. Schneider is out already, Pahlsson missed some time and Burke wasted money on Bertuzzi.

    And, you know, as much as I hate Burke and won’t forget that he inherited a great situation and then had Lowe do him a major favour before he won the Cup, if I was a Ducks fan, I’d be pretty pissed about Selanne and Neidermayer’s dickering about whether or not they’ll return. Maybe they’re just looking to rest some old bones and ride in for the last half of the season but it certainly tied the hands of The Fat Irish Idiot in the process.

    Anyway, no matter what happens tonight, Burke still lords over all of us because he won a Cup with the help of the Pronger trade and that’s the trump card.

  3. therealdeal says:

    My guess is that Pouliot does draw in – he was a useful part of a good line and despite the bad penalty he took I thought he had a good game.

    Needs to win more battles though.

  4. Pat says:

    LT:

    while it may be fun being a fan of the team, it’s not fun being a fan of the organization, if that distinction makes any sense.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Pat: The only frustration I have is that they don’t appear to have a plan. I can buy into any kind of a rebuild, hell I was an Expos fan for crying out loud.

    But someone will have to explain what is going on here. Some of the moves have been just smart deals (Pitkanen is a nice piece of the future no matter the flaws, Garon bridges the gap) and some of the deals made sense on other levels, but the Penner signing got me off the rails and the Souray signing has me wondering which one of these kids we’ll be waving goodbye to in the next few years.

    And THAT isn’t team building. I suspect (as pretty much everyone does) that the Lowe-MacT tandem is in the ‘Dead Man Walking’ phase as no matter the loyalty to your friends someone has to move the carcass off the highway.

  6. Bruce says:

    Didn’t see the game last night, but having read the commentary here (G11/07-08) I have a pretty good idea what I missed. My compliments to the group for some pretty informed commentary, not just last night but generally; even the obviously opinionated stuff usually has some merit and adds some spice to the discussion.

    A few random observations (if you can call reading the summaries and stats “observing”):

    First the good news: looking at the box score I see where Oilers’ special teams “won” their part of the game, which hasn’t happened often (at all?) this season. Now we just gotta work on that pesky ES situation.

    Is Dwayne Roloson getting tired? Before coming to the Oilers his career high at the NHL level was 50 GP. Since arriving in Edmonton he played something like 37 staright games right into June, got injured, had major off-season surgery, then played 68 games in 2006-07. He was unreal great thru November before clearly wilting for much of the duration. Now he’s played 10 of the first 11 games, and has given up an inordinate number of weak goals. Killer goals, too, like that abortion of an own goal late against the Wild or the 3-1 goal last night. But MacT seems to have confidence in him like nobody else, whereas if Markkanen or Garon let in a weak one it was/is held against them for weeks.

    Once again there was a bunch of BULLSHIT in the preseason about a 50-32 split, but it ain’t happening. The Oilers have lost 7 of their last 9 — all in regulation it’s important to note — so it’s not like the Ride Roli formula is working. I’d be tempted to give Garon at least two starts and let Roli catch his breath. Not to mention, make him compete for his job.

    Footnote: Roli strikes me as more of the Pete Peeters solid-goalie-on-a-good-team type than the Gilles Meloche hold-the-fort-on-a-real-sucky-team type. In which case he is very definitely in the wrong place.

    I’ll say this much for Marc Pouliot, he’s consistent. The other day I detailed his stats for the first six games, to which we can now add last night’s output:

    6 GP, 10:19 ATOI, 0-0-0, -6
    1 GP, 10:48 TOI, 0-0-0, -1
    ———————————
    7 GP, 10:23 ATOI, 0-0-0, -7

    The two penalties are a new touch, maybe he’s developing a nasty edge, look it up, nope tripping and tripping, guess not. I see where he was sitting in the box for the GWG (GLGA). Sure it was 4v4, but too-many-men hardly sounds like a coincidental penalty.

    With two more giveaways last night MAP’s now got a 0:5 TK:GV ratio, which doesn’t meet my definition of “the role of puck recovery”, eh Dennis?

    Not sure what Oilers options are with 78, certainly wouldn’t want to waive him, but he could use some time with the puck on his stick in a Top Six role and that sure as shit won’t be happening in this league any time soon. We might see occaisonal flashes of okayness, but all the stats say that he’s playing like Poo.

    I am mystified by MacT’s handling of JFJ. Last night he played just 4:05, by far the least on the team, yet co-led the Oilers with 4 hits. He also mustered a shot on goal and nothing in the way of negative stats. Having not seen the game I’m guessing Oil got behind and MacT stuck to his “offensive” players to get one back. Why on earth doesn’t he try to change momentum with aggressive grinding and forechecking? You don’t have to score on every shift to win the game, or even to win that shift. Based on the stat sheet alone, I’m guessing JFJ’s line more than held its own out there last night … comments?

    Glad to see some support for Matt Greene, this kid is a work in progress to be sure, but he’s full of try and that’s pretty damn tough to criticize. He’s improving a lot faster than, say, Dave Langevin or Jeff Beukeboom did, whose progress in Edmonton seemed glacial but they would up winning Stanley Cups in New York. Similarly, such useful grinding defencemen as Lee Fogolin, Craig Muni and Jason Smith found their way to Edmonton because their teams (and fans) grew tired of waiting for them. (Thanks again, T.O. Twice Over!)

    Maybe it’s just that right-shooting #2, but Greene reminds me a great deal of Fogolin, who used to get in all kinds of trouble when he left his feet, but developed into a very reliable and tough stay-at-home defender. It took a few years with Fogey, and it’ll take a few with Greene, but I for one am prepared to wait. Matt will lose a lot of battles, but he will be in there battling, and we need as much of that as possible. He’s a keeper.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Okay, I’ve held my tongue here because there’s a clear bias but if we’re going to start mentioning Fogolin and Greene in the same paragraph then it’s time to step in.

    Fogolin made his mistakes in Buffalo, Greene is making them here. I understand that. However, from his rookie season through “very recently” Greene has had some gaps in his game. These would include clubbing people at every turn and getting a steady stream of penalties because of it, being caught flat-footed and going periods of games with totals like 40 and 37 without appearing to learn simple things like “hey don’t skate out to the blueline chasing the guy with the puck.”

    Greene’s improved, fine. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, Lee Fogolin was on another level the day he stepped into an Oiler uniform.

    And I haven’t heard any stories about Greene ripping the cap of a tooth with a coat hanger so he could play the next day either btw.

  8. Dennis says:

    Well, JFJ has started to run around out there and hit people and last night, in particular, he creamed Preissing, which is exactly what he should be doing when he catches small D in vulnerable situations. He didn’t play much down the stretch because MacT went to nine forwards early on and he didn’t make the cut.

    As for Fogolin and Beukeboom, I’m really not old enough to have seen any of Fogy’s games until it came to playoff time, given that I was growing up in NF and it wasn’t like I could see them on a weekly basis, but when it comes to Beuke, I really don’t remember him being as bad as I hear but once again, I maybe saw him 5 times a year in the reg season and then playoffs.

    Interesting to note that on the PPv case, they’ve got a poll to see which former Oiler is the most hated and the guys were Arnott, Comrie, Pronger, Weight, Guerin and Smyth.

    I honestly don’t know why they’d put Smyth on that list. Well, actually I do know why they put him on the list, it’s just that it bothers me that the Oilers are still goddamn petty.

  9. PunjabiOil says:

    Stortini in for Pouliot today.

    I see myself agreeing more and more with Vic Ferrari everyday.

  10. Dennis says:

    78 out’s tonight and 46 is in. First shift of the game had 46 playing with 27-16. That’s a pretty big line. Last time they saw that much meat in Edm, Glenn Anderson was hosting a new year’s eve party.

  11. James L. says:

    Hopefully TSN.ca will get another chance to do a stupid “Ales in Wonderland” headline after tonight’s game.

  12. Devin says:

    Tarnstrom had better be injured. This is re-dawg-dang-diculous.

  13. PunjabiOil says:

    So Tarnstrom is out today in favor of Roy?

    You wonder what the fuck MacT is thinking these days.

  14. James L. says:

    It’s almost like they want to punish one of the few UFAs who were kind enough to sign with this train wreck of a team.

  15. Dennis says:

    The Oilers were playing an excellent game before they gave up that goal and then it was a gong show until the period was over.

    19′s had two scoring chances tonight and has been foiled on both but when you normally don’t contribute much offense, you just can’t let yourself get stripped like he did by Perry on the Kunitz goal. That was just a classic example of not being strong on the puck.

    The Ducks have a really had team on the ice tonight. They’ve got an Easter line with Perry-McDonald-Kunitz but the Pahlsson/Moen duo doesn’t look as impressive without Great Gazoo Neidermayer rounding things out.

    Gagner went down to try and block a shot but he hasn’t done anything at ES. Couple of nice plays on a PP but nothing at evens.

    The Roy/Greene tandem have been nightmarish. In the first period, the Ducks only threatened when they were on the ice but then after the Ducks scored, everyone began to panic.

    Pretty good night by Garon so far with one unbelieveable save and Gigure has been very strong down low.

  16. Black Dog says:

    shut up – Cogliano with a shorty with a minute and a half left

  17. dawgbone says:

    That Gagner kid is pretty tolerable in the shootouts…

  18. Rod says:

    Gagner and Hemsky in the shoot-out again! And the Oil pass the Ducks in the standings on Penner’s return to Anaheim. Awesome. Would be rather ridiculous if the standings stay this way…but…the Oil have the Ducks 1st rounder, and the Ducks have the Oilers 1st rounder… :-)

  19. Black Dog says:

    oh rod – to dream :)

    still, a terrific win!

  20. James L. says:

    ALES IN WONDERLAND

  21. Dennis says:

    If that’s his only move, it’s a pretty damn good one. But I just wonder how long it is before the league finds out about it and what he’s got for an alternate. Of course, Dal’s Jokinen made a lot of things happen with his shot over the blocker and then for a second look, he went with the one-hander.

    A weird win by the Oilers and another night where it appears that one of the main goals of the season is to develop Grebeskov.

    MacT and Co have clearly lost their fucking minds by electing to play Roy over Tarnstrom, Smid’s offense looks better but he’s still not up for the battle it takes to play defense and after a great shift by a line of 27-13-89 after the expiration of a PP, it took a long time before MacT got Cogs out for another shift and he never did go back to that troika.

    I have absolutely no idea what’s going on here. It’s like LT basically said, he knows MacT isn’t trying to lose but you can’t watch this team and tell me that everything’s being done to win either because that’s just not the case.

  22. Black Dog says:

    Yeah, wonder if Tarnstrom said something that got under MacT’s skin – even last night when Roli let in that stinker MacT made a point of saying that Tarnstrom should have made the play.

    Huh?

    The good news is that Smid, Greene and Gilbert all look like guys who may be able to play in this league. The bad news is that they are still learning – having these three plus Roy plus Grebeshkov and choosing not to play Tarnstrom just makes no sense to me.

    So nice to beat the Ducks though.

  23. godot10 says:

    I think Roy and Grebeshkov are seeing ice instead of Tarnstrom, because the Oilers have to make a decision on Roy and Grebeshkov, and probably by the time Pitkanen and/or Souray are ready to come back.

  24. namflashback says:

    Tarnstrom did take a pretty heavy hit from a King’s player. Maybe he was a little banged up.

  25. James L. says:

    That’s just a little too logical, godot. C’mon, we’re talking about MacT here. :)

  26. Ribs says:

    Similarly, such useful grinding defencemen as Lee Fogolin, Craig Muni and Jason Smith found their way to Edmonton because their teams (and fans) grew tired of waiting for them.

    This is where I have a problem with developing Greene. Why bother feeling the effects of his growing pains when you can go out and get a seasoned guy who is already somewhat developed? There is quite a few guys out there, and they’re really not that expensive to keep around.

    On Tarnstrom, I think this was the deal Kevin Lowe made with him before the season. He wouldn’t have to play too much with all of the young guys getting looks and he’d be used at MacT’s discretion this season. He’s here for a paycheque, in other words.

    On the game…

    Garon played great. He seems to use the Hasek-style that I hate so much, but it works.
    Or at least tonight it did.
    I hope he starts a few more games sooner than later.

    Penner showed up. Took shots any chance he got and made hits any time he could. He made Lupul’s games against ANA seem like a cruel, cruel, joke.

    Core guys played some good hockey. More offense is still needed from them.

    Cogliano is the man. I don’t know if I’ve seen a player with such drive.

    The defense looked pretty solid tonight actually. Grebs kept his chaos to a minimum and the rest played simple, smart, hockey for the most part.

    I still think we need to see more from Steve Staios.

  27. godot10 says:

    //This is where I have a problem with developing Greene. Why bother feeling the effects of his growing pains when you can go out and get a seasoned guy who is already somewhat developed? There is quite a few guys out there, and they’re really not that expensive to keep around.//

    (1) There are NOT quite a few guys out there. Lowe has been what, trying to make a trade for a defenseman for a year and half now. Can you name one good defenseman who has been traded in the last two seasons? Good UFA’s don’t sign in Edmonton. Hopefully this will change.

    (2) Any player you develop on your own saves you about $2 million per season for three years that can be spent on high end talent.

    (3) Any decent veteran UFA defenseman basically gets $3 million per season at a minimum, and more likely closer to $4 million.

  28. Lowetide says:

    1. Chris Pronger?

  29. Steve says:

    Interesting to note that on the PPv case, they’ve got a poll to see which former Oiler is the most hated and the guys were Arnott, Comrie, Pronger, Weight, Guerin and Smyth.

    Wait, am I supposed to hate Smyth, Weight, and Guerin (I do hate Guerin, I just never realized that I was supposed to)? I didn’t actually realize that *any* of those guys were supposed to be on our list. What about Poti, who we drove out of town (not that he ever did become as good as billed)? Weird selection. But really, it’s a two person race, so the other four don’t matter.

    I think Roy and Grebeshkov are seeing ice instead of Tarnstrom, because the Oilers have to make a decision on Roy and Grebeshkov, and probably by the time Pitkanen and/or Souray are ready to come back.

    So because you absolutely need to play a couple of given rookie defensemen, it makes sense to sit out one of your only two real veterans? Why not Smid? Why not Greene? Hell, why not Staios?

    (There are lots of good reasons not to sit Staios, but I can’t think of any that apply to him but not to Tarnstrom. Leadership, maybe.)

  30. Dennis says:

    LT is the only guy left who thinks Lowe’s gonna prop up this team with a trade, so let’s not encourage him, shall we;)?

    I don’t believe any kind of an agreement was made between Lowe and Tarnstrom, appearently, Tarnstrom was mad that he was benched on Thurs so I don’t think he thought this was what was in store for him. I imagine he’s the first guy out of town when the deadline deals start being made, Sanderson’s probably a close second.

    If all four of 25-44-18-34 were healthy for Tues night’s games, I wonder what Lowe would do about it? Stortini or Jacques would get the demotion to SF, probably both of them would go unless the Oilers tried to waive Sanderson, and on defense Roy would be the first odd man out but what about the second guy? Wouldn’t Tarnstrom’s contract be tough to move at this time of year? Gilbert played over 20 min at ES tonight and he’s even slowly adding a physical element to his game so he’s going nowhere. So, it would come down to Smid, Greene or Grebs.

  31. Lowetide says:

    Dennis: It would be Smid. It’s all clear to me now, GREBESHKOV IS THE KEY!

    Kill me. Kill me now.

  32. Bank Shot says:

    I think this is the second night in a row that the second PP unit of Gagner and Cogliano has created more quality chances then the first unit.

    They don’t give a fuck about finding a perfect play and it shows. They make a couple passes then throw it at the net and follow the puck.

    The first unit stands around like stone pillars while Hemsky skates figure eights with the puck waiting for the hand of god to push a defender down so he can thread a perfect one-timer pass.

    I’d like to see them throw the puck around quicker.

    I’d also like to see a Gagner-Cogliano-Hemsky PP combination, but I think MacT is too loyal to his vets for that.

  33. Bruce says:

    Fogolin made his mistakes in Buffalo, Greene is making them here. I understand that.

    In case I didn’t make myself clear, LT, it is entirely wrong and unfair to compare Greene’s career to date with Fogolin’s in its entirety. Fogey has a record of winning and toughness and leadership and competitive fire that young players can only aspire to. There are some stylistic similarities, esp. between the two as young players, and Oiler fans can only hope that Greene develops into a player of that ilk. At best he’s probably a #4 or #5 guy, but at his best, so was Fogolin for the most part.

    However, from his rookie season through “very recently” Greene has had some gaps in his game. These would include clubbing people at every turn and getting a steady stream of penalties because of it

    Fogolin had such gaps in his game that as a five-year veteran he was left unprotected in the compost heap that was the 1979 “Expansion” Draft. It was an horrendous mistake by the Sabres — the incoming GM, Scotty Bowman, was reportedly livid that Fogolin had been left available — but Fogey never was the smoothest of players at any point in his career. He too took a steady stream of penalties — 1318 PiM in 924 career games — but there’s room in the game for crude, in fact every team needs a little bit of it.

    This is where I have a problem with developing Greene. Why bother feeling the effects of his growing pains when you can go out and get a seasoned guy who is already somewhat developed?

    Why bother developing anyone? Such guys might be growing on bushes, ribs, but it’s a question of quality. The ones I named were three of the best steals in the Oilers’ history, and you really don’t want to be on the wrong end of deals like those. We have to grow a few of our own under any scenario, and for the most part I like Greene’s attitude. As long as the guy is improving, I for one am prepared to live with some mistakes.

  34. PunjabiOil says:


    The first unit stands around like stone pillars while Hemsky skates figure eights with the puck waiting for the hand of god to push a defender down so he can thread a perfect one-timer pass

    Bank Shot, you got a thing with words.

  35. Devin says:

    On the Pens-Habs game the other night they were discussing with the coaches how the Habs manage to consistently have such a deadly PP. They said they rarely if ever look for seam passes or backdoor plays – they just work the half wall either to the point or down low, and look for a point shot or slot shot. Bang away at rebounds, and voila, you score 18-25% of the time.

    Hemsky needs to realize that even when seam passes connect they don’t always create very good scoring opportunities. In fact, I’d wager the stuff play out of the corner that Gagner has been trying would generate an equal number of goals and carry a far lower risk of losing possession. MacT went on about getting a RH shot to play catch with 83 on the PP — well, you have 89 and he’s grown up minting points from down low on the PP. What more can they ask for?

    Ps- Gilbert just keeps getting better… jeebus he’s good.

  36. Bank Shot says:

    Thanks PunjabiOil

  37. Rube Foster says:

    Geez LT,
    Brian Lavender, never heard of the guy, you got me. Love the sideburns though, you can see those chops from thirty feet away. Gotta love the seventies. Hey, is that the back of Carol Vadnais’s head?

    On a night like this, when we literally steal a game from the Wizard of Oz and his defending Stanley Cup team (granted they are in the shit). We should give the Oil some credit for playing with some heart and passion. A lot teams in the same position, down a goal and shorthanded with a minute and half left would have packed it in.

    I’ve been down on MacT and some of the choices he’s been making – Tricky Dick in the PB?? But I’ll throw some credit when it is due and I belive a comeback like this says something about the coaches and that the players are buying into a bit of the never say die that MacT and his crew are obviously selling. I’ve been down on the Oilers for being not very hard to play against but grand larceny like this gives one a glimmer hope.

  38. James L. says:

    Jim Matheson hints at a possible Atlanta-Edmonton trade because we’ve been scout-stalked by one of their guys for the past three games.

    Theories, gentlemen? Oilers are “showcasing” some of their young D in order to show ‘em off to Atlanta?

  39. Nelson88 says:

    stoll/horcoff + schremp + tarnstrom/grebs for a signed marian hossa…?

    not sure of the value. just throwing it out there but if edmonton can make the cap numbers work i have thought for awhile that the teams make good trading partners.

    thrashers need depth, D’s, C’s and to shed salary. oilers have those in abundance.

    a smaller deal with the rangers would also not shock me. obviously history is there and they have a big need for a puck moving D at a relatively cheap cost. tarnstrom, grebs, pits, gilbert (hope not).

  40. Nelson88 says:

    i might add that the bonus in getting hossa would be one less possible star for the ducks to go after.

    no doubt he will be one of the main targets once that cry baby a** hole in anaheim is finished manipulating the salary cap.

    hmm. just blue skying. maybe hossa from the rangers and hossa from the thrashers and the oilers win the stanley cup next year…:)

  41. Ribs says:

    (1) There are NOT quite a few guys out there. Lowe has been what, trying to make a trade for a defenseman for a year and half now. Can you name one good defenseman who has been traded in the last two seasons? Good UFA’s don’t sign in Edmonton. Hopefully this will change.

    Well hold on here, are we talking top grade defenseman? or Stay at home defenders like Greene?

    There’s been plenty of old dogs tossed around the league in the last couple of years. Of course the first one that comes to mind is Jason Smith. Vitaly Vishnevski has traveled. Keith Carney was picked up from Anaheim. Sean O’Donnell is enjoying his trade from Phoenix. Ken Klee was traded, as was Luke Richardson. Aaron Miller signed as a free agent in Vancouver. Shane Hnidy in Anaheim. Brad Lukowich saw a trade. David Hale was scooped up by Calgary last season.

    Some overpaid guys could be included…Mattias Norstrom was traded last year. Brad Stuart moved around. Aaron Ward was swapped. Alexei Zhitnik was dealt. Andy Sutton was available for a time. Craig Rivet was moved.

    (2) Any player you develop on your own saves you about $2 million per season for three years that can be spent on high end talent.
    (3) Any decent veteran UFA defenseman basically gets $3 million per season at a minimum, and more likely closer to $4 million.

    Jason Smith type players don’t normally cost much more than $2M.

    Why bother developing anyone? Such guys might be growing on bushes, ribs, but it’s a question of quality.

    I don’t think I’d mind seeing any number of the guys I’ve listed playing in Greenes spot, but that’s just me.

  42. Dennis says:

    Where did you hear this from Matheson? I thought I read everything that he wrote over the past weekend but did you read this in a piece that maybe didn’t make it to the net?

    I tell you what, all apologies to Hank Hill, but if we could unload Souray in a package for Hossa, I’d be a fan fucking fan of it.

    As it is, though, one of 10 or 16 will have to go for cash considerations and one of Nilsson, Schremp or Pouliot will to go to fill the “talented guy who might need a change of scenery” quota and then we’ll have to give up a defenseman or two. Roy probably goes because we can’t waive him and then one of Grebs or Greene gets shipped out. With Pitkanen and Souray currently on the shelf, it wouldn’t be the best time to send out two D when you only have seven healthy but if it meant calling up both Svyret and Young to rotate in the 6 and 7 spots until one of the vets got back, then it would be worth doing just to get Hossa signed.

    Line it all up and it’s gonna be at least four-for-one and I’d throw in a fifth player in return for their 1st rounder in this year’s draft or even their second rounder.

    Not sure how we could fit Hossa in unless the Oilers are prepared to go to the cap each and every season. Given the strenght of the Can dollar, it’s pretty much a given that the cap will rise for next year, no? In any case, I’m going to allow myself for just a second to imagine a Hossa-Horc-Hemsky power vs power line. If we could get out of the trade with only giving up Stoll, we’d have a super deep, alebit young, top nine. You could reunite 14-34 and audition centres for them for the second tough min line while 27-89-13 could be our soft min line.

    I gotta calm down here, this is the most excited I’ve been since that chick from “Invasion” gave that, at least to me, surprise full frontal nudity shot in “Broken Flowers.”

  43. mike says:

    When KLo was talking with Matheson this summer he mentioned a player in the SE who was available whom he didn’t know was going to be made available. It was about the time of the Nylander fiasco.

    Thrashers need some fire. I say Torres would be in the deal for sure.

  44. NBOilerFan says:

    Here you go Dennis…

    ON THE TRAIL

    Atlanta Thrashers director of player personnel, Mark Dobson, was watching the Oilers again. It’s the third time Dobson has checked out the copper and blue in recent weeks.

    Maybe something’s up.The Oilers need a puck-moving defenceman, among other things.

    Is there really anything to Dick Tarnstrom sitting out two of the last three games? Or did they just want Mathieu Roy on the back end because he’s tougher and they were playing against the Ducks, who lead the NHL with 10 fighting majors?

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna…1cbdd2&k=82226

  45. Bruce says:

    I don’t think I’d mind seeing any number of the guys I’ve listed playing in Greenes spot, but that’s just me.

    At 24, Greene is younger than all 16 of the guys you listed, in fact just three of them (Hale, Stuart, and Vishnevsky) are under 30. So that’s really apples and oranges.

    All but three of them (Hale, Hnidy, Richardson) make more money than Greene, most of them MUCH more.

    Is your preference to find some old geezer like Ken Klee or Luke Richardson or Sean O’Donnell to anchor — using the term advisedly — the defence? Maybe I would agree if Oilers were anywhere close to contention, but they’re not.

    And I’m sorry, when Andy (Meatball) Sutton commands a 3.0 MM cap hit on the open market, Matt Greene at 1.15 MM seems like a bargain.

  46. Ribs says:

    All but three of them (Hale, Hnidy, Richardson) make more money than Greene, most of them MUCH more.

    Of the 6 guys I listed not overpaid, the only guy who gets paid more than $2M is carney at $2.1M. Seems like a reasonable price tag to me.

    I can agree that Greenes salary is a bargain to some extent, but if we are developing him into one of these guys anyway, what’s the point?
    I guess I’ll just have to hope that he DOES develop in the next couple of seasons so that the bargain price is worth the ugliness.

  47. Nelson88 says:

    dennis,

    don’t get too excited! :)

    i would also happily include souray in any deal but doubt that gets done as he has a NMC and the thrashers need to dump salary.

    i have no doubt the oilers could give the thrashers a package to get the deal done. for example: stoll, nilsson (probably more likely than schremp although not my preference) and grebs/tarnstrom.

    the real sticking point is the cap. not sure how LTIR works but if pisani is likely to be out for the year ( i think that likely even with the latest positive news) then perhaps they can squeeze it.

    with the cdn dollar as it is i don’t see a problem actually spending the money. the oilers/eig are having a big windfall right now. if you can use that to get a “franchise” player that only comes around once in a blue moon you don’t count the cash imho.

    still a pipedream but hossa excites the hell out of me. very solid all around player who can creat chances, put up points, play ES and very good on the PK. personally i would take him over jumbo joe.

    i know he is slovak and not czech but any idea if he has a relationship with hemsky which would be an added draw for him to sign in edmonton?

  48. PunjabiOil says:

    I tell you what, all apologies to Hank Hill, but if we could unload Souray in a package for Hossa, I’d be a fan fucking fan of it

    Souray has a No-Trade-Clause for the first 3 years of his contract.
    I’m thinking more and more everyday that maybe Bob Stauffer is on to something with regards to Pitkanen being moved.

    Wonder if the player that Lowe mentioned in the summer that he was “very excited that even the possibility exists that he may be moved.” or the “I’m trying very hard not to be excited.” was Hossa.

    Of course it’s almost likely that it was just more BS like the, “teams are inquiring us about our logjam at defence” and the “We got 9 NHL defenceman who can play” line.

  49. oilerdiehard says:

    Dennis – On the Souray comment. I thought I read we gave Souray a NTC for the first 3 years of his contract, not sure if that accurate though.

  50. Dennis says:

    Yeah, now that you mention it, I think I heard it as well, the Souray NTC clause, I mean.

    I was just thinking how I’d love to get rid of him and how we’d need to get salary and how the Thrash need centres and D. Well, actually, they need everything besides Lethonen, Kozlov, Kovalchuk and Little.

  51. PunjabiOil says:

    What the Thrashers need is prospects. Lowe is great at bullshitting, perhaps he can market a guy like Schremp:

    “Schremp is a great young sniper born and raised in the United States of America.”

    Guys like Nilsson, Schremp, Pouliot, Stoll, and Pitkanen should all be fair game in my opinion for quality deals.

    As for Hossa, a big no if he’s a rental. Those are the type of deals that get you killed. Nor are we in any position to say with confidence that we’re a playoff team. Unless he agrees to an extension – a big no.

  52. Bruce says:

    Of the 6 guys I listed not overpaid, the only guy who gets paid more than $2M is carney at $2.1M. Seems like a reasonable price tag to me.

    Well it was 10 guys you listed not overpaid. Here’s the list, followed by age and cap hit in millions (from nhlnumbers.com):

    K. Carney, 37, $2.10
    J. Smith, 33, $1.98
    V. Vishnevsky, 27, $1.80
    B. Lukowich, 30, $1.57
    A. Miller, 35, $1.50
    S. O’Donnell, 35, $1.25
    K. Klee, 36, $1.25
    S. Hnidy, 31, $0.76
    D. Hale, 26, $0.59
    L. Richardson, 37, $0.50

    M. Greene, 24, $1.15

    So let’s do it this way. If the Oilers were to offer Greene, salary and all, one-for-one for those guys, how many GMs would do the deal? I’m thinking most of them would jump at it.

    I will offer a single example of a comparable young defenceman who was dealt in the last year … can’t think of too many others, because usually guys like this don’t get moved. Shane O’Brien’s statistics at the NHL level are very similar to Greene’s (except regular season +/-, which can largely be explained by the difference between Anaheim and Edmonton in 2006-07, though Greene’s playoff numbers are better), and he’s of similar size and temperament. Originally an 8th round draft pick, Brian Burke swapped O’Brien to Tampa for a FIRST rounder. Strong rumour at the time was that Burke was loathe to give up O’Brien (no duh) but he needed the first rounder to get into the trade deadline sweepstakes (although in the end he didn’t pull the trigger and wound up keeping the pick). Obviously it worked out OK for Anaheim, they got the Cup and the first-rounder, but Tampa Bay did all right in the deal too, it seems to me. O’Brien could be a Top 4 mainstay of their blueline for the next ten years.

    From a distance O’Brien’s big penalty numbers look like toughness — which is both true and an asset — but up close I’ll bet he took dozens of minors by being caught and taking a guy down rather than giving him a free pass to the net. It goes with the territory, esp. early in the career of a defensive defenceman learning the ropes against the best players in the world.

  53. Ribs says:

    Well it was 10 guys you listed not overpaid. Here’s the list, followed by age and cap hit in millions (from nhlnumbers.com):

    Oops.. 9 out 10 then below $2M, with the 10th guy coming in at $2.1M. Same difference.

    So let’s do it this way. If the Oilers were to offer Greene, salary and all, one-for-one for those guys, how many GMs would do the deal? I’m thinking most of them would jump at it.

    …Brian Burke swapped O’Brien to Tampa for a FIRST rounder.

    …Obviously it worked out OK for Anaheim, they got the Cup and the first-rounder, but Tampa Bay did all right in the deal too, it seems to me. O’Brien could be a Top 4 mainstay of their blueline for the next ten years.

    So you’re saying that we could get a first rounder for Matt Greene? And that would be a bad thing?

    You’ve chosen a strange example here as Sean O’Donnel and/or Shane Hnidy took O’Briens spot on the Ducks roster and they are two guys on my list that will more than likely outperform O’Brien for at least this year.

    I don’t think you’re going to sway me on this one. With RFA’s being gobbled up, to players aiming for free agency, to salary cap cautious GMs, I just don’t see this long term developing process being of much benefit to a team.

    Especially when the Oilers throw these guys to the curb once they realise how bad they are. Semenov, Brown, Cross…. ick.

  54. Bruce says:

    So you’re saying that we could get a first rounder for Matt Greene? And that would be a bad thing?

    No, I’m saying there is value in promising young stay-at-home defenders. The O’Brien deal was a case of two teams with very different needs.

    You’ve chosen a strange example here as Sean O’Donnel and/or Shane Hnidy took O’Briens spot on the Ducks roster and they are two guys on my list that will more than likely outperform O’Brien for at least this year.

    O’Donnell was already there, so it’s Hnidy. He was a solid signing IMO, Brian Burke knows his defencemen, and he’s one of the better, younger, cheaper options on your list. But I wouldn’t trade Matt Greene for him unless I was trying to win the Cup this year.

    Your opinion of Greene is obviously different than mine. So let’s turn my question around: how many of those 10 guys would you trade Greene for, one-for-one? And how would that help the Oilers, this year and beyond?

  55. Ribs says:

    O’Donnell was already there, so it’s Hnidy.

    If O’Donnell wasn’t there they’d need to keep O’Brien, that’s what I meant by that. O’Brien was around before O’Donnell showed up.

    But I wouldn’t trade Matt Greene for him unless I was trying to win the Cup this year.

    So if you’re going to suck, be good at it?

    Your opinion of Greene is obviously different than mine. So let’s turn my question around: how many of those 10 guys would you trade Greene for, one-for-one? And how would that help the Oilers, this year and beyond?

    I would take Smith or O’Donnell in a heartbeat in place of Greene. Richardson might be the only one I would pass on as I don’t know how much gas he has in the tank.

    These type of guys would add a veteran presence to the blueline and amp up the Oilers defensive game. Greene on the PK is just awful to watch. At least with the old guys you know what you can expect from them. MacT is still working on the Rubix cube that is Matt Greene.

    Guys like Smid and Roy could only benefit from having a solid guy in the lineup like this. Pitkanen and Souray might learn a thing or two as well. There would be some long term benefit as well as immediate.

    I just don’t see the improvement in Greene’s game that would make me think we need to keep him around when so many other options are available.

  56. Bruce says:

    Oh well, it’s a moot point for the next three months, isn’t it? The scary part was that in recent games Greene was Oilers’ third or even second most experienced defenceman.

  57. Ribs says:

    That is very scary, hah.

    Well, I hope he recovers well and gets back on the ice. The sooner the better if he’s going to be sticking around for awhile.

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