Something’s Gotta Give

On the Edmonton Oilers site there’s
an interesting set of quotes in regard to Marty Reasoner.

Craig MacTavish says “I want Reasoner back for sure” and Kevin Lowe says “we have a lot of bodies right now so we have to see what unfolds.”

This is such an interesting situation. We know that the head coach has major input into roster makeup and we also know that Marty Reasoner isn’t going to break the bank.

So who are these “bodies” Kevin Lowe talks about? Also, what would Reasoner’s job descripton be if he were signed? Which players do we think could be gone in a MacT lineup that includes Marty?

In looking at the Oilers forward depth chart, we can list 9 of them without much argument:

  1. Hemsky
  2. Horcoff
  3. Penner
  4. Gagner
  5. Cogliano
  6. Nilsson
  7. Pisani
  8. Stoll
  9. Brodziak
  10. Glencross (UFA)
  11. Torres
  12. Moreau
  13. Stortini
  14. Pouliot
  15. Schremp
  16. Jacques
  • What would Reasoner’s job description be if he returned? I bet it would be the same as last season in terms of minutes. Reasoner spent 11EV minutes and 3PK minutes on the ice per game, and just 30 seconds on the PP. Gabriel Desjardins stats tell us that Marty played with low linemates and against the second toughest available opposition. Horcoff’s health and an improved Jarret Stoll might mean he’d be superfluous but that’s a bit of a gamble, as is counting on Kyle Brodziak this early in his career to do too much heavy lifting. They could use him as LW insurance behind Moreau and Raffi.
  • Who are these “bodies” Kevin Lowe talks about? Glencross for sure, possibly Raffi Torres and maybe Marc Pouliot. Should Glencross sign he’d be a factor. Schremp and Jacques are non-factors in this conversation, as the jobs they’ll be applying for in the fall are the fringe spots.
  • Which players do we think could be gone in a MacT lineup that includes Marty? Two of Pouliot, Schremp and Jacques. I’d bet that Reasoner plays both center and left wing for this coach in 08-09. With Horcoff, Stoll, Cogliano and Brodziak a solid top 4 on the current roster, Marty would be the 5th man who could come in when someone was injured and slumping. That leaves Pouliot on the outside looking in. On Left Wing, with Penner, Nilsson, Torres and Moreau as the depth chart, Reasoner could also serve as the extra man there. This would effectively cut off Jacques as the 14th man on the roster and the final 14 might look like this: Horcoff, Penner, Hemsky, Cogliano, Nilsson, Gagner, Stoll, Moreau, Pisani, Brodziak, Torres, Stortini, Reasoner and then one of the players listed above (Schremp, Pouliot, Jacques). Schremp can be sent back to the AHL without passing through waivers and the French kids need to make the big club.

In the words of the great Johnny Mercer, Something’s Gotta Give.

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33 Responses to "Something’s Gotta Give"

  1. mike w says:

    Thing is, for all of the little things he does right, Marty Reasoner simply can’t get any slower than he is already.

    I’m not sure that won’t be the case by October.

  2. Ducey says:

    Things likely to “give”:

    a) Stoll or Torres get traded (the “bodies” Lowe is talking about)
    b) Schremp sent back to play for Mr Burns
    c) GlenX signs elsewhere
    d) Some dude(s) get(s) hurt
    e) The Sophmore slump strikes someone
    f) Pouliot eats too much Poutine this summer and comes to camp out of shape (were we not pencilling him in last summer?)
    g) Pisani’s gut acts up
    h) Nilson needs a benching

    Reasoner is excellent press box material/insurance in case of most of these. As well, there’s nothing wrong with making players prove themselves again and again by having a reliable backup ready to step in. As well, he is good on the faceoff.

  3. Big T says:

    To go with this, there’s the recurring rumour of Camilerri for Pitkanen. I don’t want to argue the merits of such a trade as its been talked to death. If we assume this trade was made and that MacT gets his way and Reasoner comes back for $850K or so, who would you advocate to be sent out for a vet defender? What defender?

    T

  4. jd says:

    Marty Reasoner is a huge bone of contention for me. His in the room support aside, is this guy really a player that deems prospects (sometimes suspects) Pouliot and Schremp expendable? I don’t think so at all. Pouliot was just turning the corner and Schremp, if the Sun is accurately reporting his new found work ethic is true, hasn’t even gotten a 10 game tryout in the show. I think it would be a huge mistake to overlook the combined leadership thats in the room minus Reasoner. Keep a player that stays with the team max another two years or keep a couple guys that have potential to surpass the player Reasoner is in two years. We can’t see whats in the room but I bet that with Reasoner the on ice product is better without him. The Oil need to give up the guilt they have stagnating from 06 and let the guy go.

  5. DeBakey says:

    Which players do we think could be gone in a MacT lineup that includes Marty?

    Stoll, Stoll & Stoll
    And Glencross

    When KLowe did his end of season presser,
    It was when asked about Stoll that he went into his extra bodies routine

  6. Bank Shot says:

    If Glencross doesn’t resign, and that looks more and more likely each day with the talk of the “salary grid”, would anyone be surprised to see the Oilers break camp with this lineup?

    Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Nilsson-Cogliano-Gagner
    Moreau-Stoll-Pisani
    Torres-Reasoner-Brodziak

    I wouldn’t.

  7. RiversQ says:

    I think Pouliot makes the club.

    Of course he’ll have to kiss the ring during his contract negotiations to get that far.

    I guess I take issue with the depth chart too. It probably reflects the org’s willingness to deal a player, but I doubt MacT would rank them that way on the bench.

  8. Lord Bob says:

    I love Marty Reasoner for what he brought to the table in the good old days and the way he plays the game. But, seriously, MacTavish. It’s over. He’s finished. If you like the guy, buy him a plane ticket to Sweden and put in a call with Djurgardens.

    It’s not that Marty Reasoner can’t play in the NHL. It’s that he isn’t a better player than Pouliot or Schremp and is on the downside of his career rather than the upside.

  9. rickibear says:

    players EV Values/60:

    nilsson +.69
    Glencross +.66
    Horcoff +.47
    Storitini +.34
    Grebeshkov +.26
    Pitkanen .00
    Cogliano -.07
    Gilbert -.09
    Penner -.22
    Hemsky -.23
    Torres -.27
    Pouliot -.26
    Pisani -.37
    Greene -.48
    Here is the line in the EV Sand
    Brodziak -.68
    Souray -.76
    Gagner -.86
    Staios -.91
    What the hell?
    Moreau -1.01
    Smid -1.02
    Reasoner -1.13
    Stoll -1.58

    Our best PK players GA/60 guys with 2 MIN + 20GM and positional rank in the league:

    Souray -3.68 #9D
    Pitkanen -3.94 #13D
    Staios -4.15 #15D
    Reasoner -4.49 #13F
    Brodziak -4.82 #21F
    Gilbert -4.88 #37D
    Moreau -5.17 #32F
    Pisani -5.24 #37F
    Horcoff -5.79 #49F
    to be noted near the end of the year Cogliano got more PK.
    -4.60 would put him pretty high up in the forwards.

    Our PP numbers:
    Hemsky +7.90 #21F
    Penner +7.13 #41F
    Stoll +6.94 #55F
    Gagner +6.93 #56F
    Grebeshkov +6.71 #31D
    Pisani +6.43 #77F
    Pouliot +6.43 #78F
    Souray +6.23 #43D
    Horcoff +5.43 #81F
    Gilbert +5.36

    Based on these numbers we send out Ev:
    Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky 15Min/line
    Nilsson-Cogliano-Gagner 12Min/line
    Torres-Pouliot-Pisani 10Min/line
    Reasoner-Brodziak-Storitini 7Min/line

    If Glenx signs then the third line is:
    Glenx-Pouliot-Pisani

    Dpairs ev:
    Grebs-Gilbert
    Pitkanen-Greene
    Souray-Staios

    On the PK: roll out:
    Reasoner-Brodziak
    Souray-Staios

    Then
    Cogliano-Pisani
    Pikanen-Gilbert
    Horcoff covers up front

    PP is:
    Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
    Grebeshkov-Souray

    Gagner-Pouliot-Pisani
    Horcoff-Souray

    Based on these numbers there is no room at the in for Moreau,Stoll and
    (torres/Glenx)

  10. Loxy says:

    In a Marty post, I have to weigh in…

    People keep talking about Schremp and Pouliot losing out if Marty stays.. If Marty goes, who takes his faceoffs and PK time?

  11. Pat H says:

    //If Marty goes, who takes his faceoffs and PK time?//

    Not to be too flippant here…but given that this is a MacT-coached team, I think the question might nearly be “who doesn’t“? But seriously, do we not have guys who can comfortably fulfill those roles? Horc, Pisani, Moreau, Stoll a the very least?

    I totally agree with Lord Bob’s comment. Thanks Reasoner – love you, wish you well, etc. But it’s time to part ways.

  12. dawgbone says:

    I think in this new NHL, when you have something that works really well, you try and keep it if the costs allow it.

    The Oilers simply have a dynamite PK. Yes, part of it is the goaltenders who both did well on the shots they faced on the PK.

    The other aspect is the fact that our 4 men units do a fantastic job of keeping the puck away from the prime scoring area.

    Whether that’s through pressure inside of the zone or the way they attack the puck in the neutral zone, it’s been very effective the last couple of seasons.

    I think you keep Marty, especially if you can sign him for less than he made. He contributes still, and as long as you can keep finding guys who can contribute at a value of (or better than) their contracts, you are going to be in a good position.

  13. Black Dog says:

    Lowe’s comments in the Sun today sound favourable for Pouliot and it appears Glencross is asking 1.8 and is gone.

    Reasoner, he says, comes at the right price and adds soemthign but he was noncommittal.

    They’re pumping that top six forward. My guess is Cogliano gets bumped to third line centre and Pouliot centres Brodziak and Stortini on the fourth.

  14. Ribs says:

    Assistant Coach Reasoner?

  15. doritogrande says:

    “PP is:
    Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
    Grebeshkov-Souray

    Gagner-Pouliot-Pisani
    Horcoff-Souray”

    So Gagner and Souray get the Ovechkin treatment, and Cogliano, Nilsson and Pitkanen get shafted? Sorry. Not buying that.

    Hemsky-Penner-Gagner
    Stoll-Souray

    Cogliano-Horcoff-Nilsson
    Pitkanen-Grebeshkov

    That’s in terms of their positions on the ice during the PP, not their actual “positions” per se. Stoll takes draws on first PP, Horcoff on second PP and they shift around to their respective positions. Want a shooter for the second PP unit? flip Stoll for Horcoff.

  16. DBO says:

    “Hemsky-Penner-Gagner
    Stoll-Souray

    Cogliano-Horcoff-Nilsson
    Pitkanen-Grebeshkov”

    I don’t think they have both Souray and Stoll on the same PP. I think they realized once they had Pitkanen at the point they got better, so i expect it would be:
    Pitkanen – Souray
    Stoll – Greb/Gilbert

    As for the forwards, no way Pouliot ever sees the ice. Seriously, why woud you play him when you have other options?
    gagner – hemsky – Penner
    Horcoff – Nilsson – Pisani/Torres

  17. jd says:

    The Oilers are a developing club and I think its up to MacT and crew to establish some leadership by coaching the younger players to lead. Marty is a guy thats given his all to the organization and probably reminds Mac of himself, but, hes seriously going to hinder the development of some of the younger talent. The Oil have achance to be a self reliant team in terms of developing their own players and dont need hangers on like Reasoner. Hes average at everything and needs to go.

    Lowe might have just been posturing Pouliot to round up some interest. Gonna be a busy couple weeks.

  18. namflashback says:

    LT,

    They’ll try to dangle Stoll pre-draft and if Stoll goes, then Reasoner is a MUST — Center experience is pretty thin without one of Stoll or Reasoner.

    If Stoll doesn’t get moved, then he gets an early season audition to pump his value and Reasoner does not remain.

  19. Traktor says:

    Keeping Marty because he is good on the PK makes as much sense as keeping Schremp because he is good on the PP.

    At the end of the day you have to be able to play EV.

    A bigger issue is Marty is just too fucking soft to play in our bottom 6.

    Look at our top 6.
    Gagner
    Hemsky
    Horcoff
    Penner
    Nilsson
    Cogliano.

    We NEED grit/hitting/grease/dirt in our bottom 6 to compensate for our soft top 6.

    Is Marty ever going to stick up for Hemsky when Robyn Regehr hits him from behind? Is Marty going to go after one of their star players now? Of course not. That’s not his game.

    We need players like Stortini/Asham/Tootoo in our bottom 6. Players that hit to take you out of the game.

    Marty has no place on this team.

  20. dawgbone says:

    And you think guys like Asham and Tootoo can play at ES?

  21. rickibear says:

    Dorito Grande: Damn rights!

    When I watched the successful power play Gagner is on the left side boards. I want Sourays controlled point shot on the full PP.

    As for Face-off Penner was taking more draws on the PP.But I can understand how you want a better face-off man like Stoll. OH wait?
    Player Face-off % Wins/40DRaws
    Stoll 55% 22/40
    Penner 55% 22/40
    Reasoner 53% 21/40
    Brodziak 51.5% 20/40
    Horcoff 50.5% 20/40
    Pouliot 48% 19/40
    The only thing I might change is Horcoff on the draw on the second unit.
    What are our left board options. 1st PP-Hemsky; 2nd pp-Pouliot or Nilsson. I guess you can roll the dice on both. They both reflected middle of the first round talent.

    So is Stoll worth retaining when He is only 2 draws/ 40 bettter than Horcoff. His 2ndL point position can be replaced. Worst on the team at EV and our 7th best option at PK forwards. Plus 2.3M
    I keep Marty at .8M. He is our best PK Guy.

    Traktor: Grit line? Rtss guys with at least 1 hit/GM:

    Moreau 2.0
    Torres 1.75
    Storitini 1.5
    Glencross 1.5
    Stoll 1.5
    Penner 1.2
    Pouliot 1.0
    Even a weak Pisani had .8

    I really want a bottom six of
    Glenx-Brodziak-Pisani
    Torres-reasoner-Storitini
    with Nilsson Lsideboards on 2nd PP
    but if Glenx does not sign.

    Then that is where I get

    Torres-Pouliot-Pisani
    Reasoner-Brodziak-Storitini

    So many options so many reasons

    You put six dogs in a room you get six different barks.

    Interesting to see what Klowe, MacT, Pendergast, and Olczyk decide.

  22. DBO says:

    Assuming there are no moves, and GlenX is let go since he wants too much. i coudl see macT wanting this lineup (full f vets, mact’s kind of team).
    Horc-Hemsky-Penner
    Cogs-Gagner-Nilsson
    Stoll-Torres-Pisani
    Reasoner-Brodziak-Moreau
    Stortini-Pouliot

    Of course that lineup will have 2 major injuries by game 5, but that’s a pretty solid lineup. Assuming Stoll and Torres have a bit of a rebound,, the bottom 6 would play in all situations and we would roll 4 lines, with the kids playing all the soft minutes, and 5 of the bottom 6 can play the PK. I would be OK with that team to start. We could still use a top 6 winger, but I think that is a MacT team.

  23. Dennis says:

    What Pat said;)

    Seriously, though, I read both Lowe pieces today in the Journal and Sun and it looks like 78′s got a job unless his agent cocks it up during contract talks and that Lowe’s drawn a line in the sand with 20 and isn’t afraid to let the kid walk.

    Both developments had me feeling as positive about Lowe’s direction as I had in absolute Ages.

  24. Black Dog says:

    Thanks Dennis ;)

    All kidding aside it does look like they are in the market for a top sixer. Logically then Cogs drops to the third line to play between Torres and Pisani.

    Moreau drops to the fourth, Brodziak moves to the wing and Pouliot plays centre. You have Stortini and Reasoner or Jacques as your extras.

    Also happy to hear that there are positive vibes coming out about Pitkanen and that they are not planning on overpaying Glencross. I like the kid a lot but you can only overpay so many guys. How many did Detroit?

    Exactly.

  25. Dennis says:

    Pat: But, with your lineup, and I do see a lot of sense in that, for example:

    - all the rage last year was of a 18-19-51 line so in your world, you just have 78 moving in for 19

    - 13 ends up being the buzzsaw type to compliment a once successful 14/34 duo.

    All that being said, if all of these guys are back and Pitkanen’s around as well, just WHO are we trade to bring in a top six guy to round out HorPenSky plus 12/89? I guess it would start at 16 and go from there and even when throwing in one of 2 or 5, that’s not gonna bring anything into the top six other than a suspect contract.

  26. HBomb says:

    All that being said, if all of these guys are back and Pitkanen’s around as well, just WHO are we trade to bring in a top six guy to round out HorPenSky plus 12/89? I guess it would start at 16 and go from there and even when throwing in one of 2 or 5, that’s not gonna bring anything into the top six other than a suspect contract.

    Suspect contract – what about a guy with a couple years left at 5 million coming off a concussion from a team with an RFA liability in Jeff Carter?

    In other words – could Stoll, Smid and Schremp as a package land one Simon Gagne? Because that is the sort of risk Lowe might have to take to find top-line help.

  27. doritogrande says:

    h-bomb:

    Now there’s an idea I hadn’t thought of. For a top-line talent, he’s got a very reasonable salary. I’m sure Hemsky would love to have a sniper able to keep up with him, allowing Penner to light it up playing with kids like he did in Anaheim.

    Having a two-time 40 goal scorer around makes Hemsky a 100 point winger almost instantly. Taking a quick look at his tsn bio absolutely shocked me as well. He comes out of the Q and is +123 in the NHL. That’s a MacT player folks.

    Philly was rumoured to be poking around at Stoll last season, but I don’t think your package lands Gagne. It’ll take one of our talented young forwards to make that trade happen, and as much as I love him in Oiler silks, I think it’d be Cogliano who’d have to go the other way. He’s already god good chemistry with Flyer first rounders Parent and Downie from the U20s.

    Cogliano, Greene and Schremp for Gagne? I’d make that trade and see you in the playoffs :)

  28. Black Dog says:

    Yeah but I can’t see it and of course that’s the whole in my plan. Of course there are all sorts of top sixers, from Crosby to Jason Blake, anyways you get my drift.

    A home run would be nice but that would cost Cogliano or Pitkanen for starters, no?

    On the other hand Smid and Stoll and a good prospect might bring in someone decent. Who, I have no idea.

  29. Oilman says:

    BD – I think you mentioned him (or his type) that that package would land in your first sentence. (and it wasn’t Crosby)

  30. Oilman says:

    paragraph – not sentence – I meant paragraph

  31. Master Lok says:

    I read yesterday (http://www.forecaster.ca/aolcanada/hockey/news.cgi?dailyslate&x_pagespec=20080604) that a trio of Islander forwards will become UFA’s – Satan, Vasicek and Fedotenko. Although we have a plethora of forwards on the roster already, I have to admit curiousity on a return Satan engagement to see if he has anything left.

  32. Dennis says:

    As much as I’ve liked what I’ve been hearing from Lowe lately — setting a sensible line in the sand with 20 and recognizing 78′s late-season surge — I still can’t wrap my mind around how he views the forward corps as more in need of a bump then the backend.

  33. Black Dog says:

    oilman – if the Oilers wanted Blake they could likely get him for a pick – old guy, huge contract, threw his coach under the bus at the end of a terrible season plus he has cancer

    Guys like him and Glen Murray could be had for a song. Teams are looking for someone to unload him on.

    I’m thinking more a midrange guy – a Sykora or a Nagy type. I have no idea who, mind you. I think that type of a package lands a guy like that with one or two years left on his deal. The other team would get a young Dman, a prospect and a guy trying to rebound from an off year.

    If you’re trying to move a guy in order to get younger and cheaper, or just to open his spot for a young guy, then I think you would take that package.

    Not if you’re talking Jeff Carter though.

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