Hossa????

Word this morning that Kevin Lowe and Ritch Winter met long into the night (ironic, no?) in regard to Marian Hossa and closing the deal. Rumors abound that it’s 9 years, $81 million or thereabouts (SN talked about it yesterday) and people smart and dumb have been trying to figure out how Kevin Lowe will get down below the cap. Options:

  1. Trading Dwayne Roloson and stuff (first rounder, Schremp, Nilsson, etc) to a team with cap room for something small and tasteful, like a lamp.
  2. Trading Sheldon Souray and stuff (Chorney, Pouliot, Peckham, etc) to a team with cap room for a lesser draft pick.
  3. Buying out people.
  4. Blaming Glen Sather.
  5. Sending Souray to the minors.
  6. Trading Penner.
  7. Trading Visnovsky.

Some of those options are silly (why trade Visnovsky, I can’t spell his name correctly. YET!) and some of them are a dream (If Kevin Lowe can trade Souray’s contract he is G-O-D) but this is going to be close.

If needed.

  • GOAL: Mathieu Garon (1.1M), Dwayne Roloson (3.67M)
  • LEFT DEFENSE: Sheldon Souray (5.4M), Denis Grebeshkov (1.5M), Ladislav Smid (.886M)
  • RIGHT DEFENSE: Lubimor Visnovsky ($5.6M), Tom Gilbert (4M), Steve Staios (2.7M), Mathieu Roy ($.500M)
  • CENTER: Shawn Horcoff (3.6M), Sam Gagner (1.625M), Andrew Cogliano (1.133M), Kyle Brodziak (.497M)
  • LEFT WING: Dustin Penner (4.25M), Erik Cole (4M), Ethan Moreau (2M)
  • RIGHT WING: Ales Hemsky (4.1M), Robert Nilsson (1.833M), Fernando Pisani (2.5M)
  • TOTAL SIGNED PLAYERS: 19
  • TOTAL DOLLARS SPENT: $50,894,000
  • CAP: $56,700,000
  • DOLLARS AVAILABLE: $5,806,000
  • SPOTS AVAILABLE: 4
  • Best choice: Deal Roloson for a pick, callup JDD and pay him $670k. It saves Lowe a clean $3M and based on the numbers above the Oilers would be within pennies. There would still be work to do and Deslauriers better be at least decent but that trade would swallow most of the problem. If needed.

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137 Responses to "Hossa????"

  1. misfit says:

    LT, you’re just making it harder for everyone when Hossa signs with the the Blues or some such team this afternoon.

    As for the unlikely actually happening. I’m sure some team would be willing to give up a draft pick for Souray, provided he waives his NTC. Ditto for Penner. Heck, Penner’s starting to look like a steal after Malone and Ryder inked their deals. We might even be able to get something half decent for him. In fact, if trading Penner is ever going to be an option for us, we’d better do it now, since he won’t be getting any #1PP time and/or top line icetime to boost his value with Cole and Hossa in the mix.

  2. andy grabia says:

    Put me down in the negative on the Hossa deal. That money and that length is far too much.

  3. Lord Bob says:

    Last night, Sportsnet (at least, Sportsnet Pacific) conjectured 7 years, $63 million. So that’s okay, then.

    Yes, it’s a lot of money for a long long time, but if you look around that’s what free agents are signing for. Hossa at $81 million over nine wouldn’t be disproportionate, so if we say “that’s too much” we should realise that we’ll probably be turning down big free agents until the end of time.

    Me, I think Hossa’s just using the Oilers to drive his price up and has never had any intention of coming here regardless of the dollar figure. (And I wish the Calgary Flames best of luck this playoff season.) You could easily make the argument, as well, that saying no to most big-name free agents forever is a really good idea. So long as we realise that’s what we’re doing.

  4. goldenchild says:

    I listened to team 1260 last night over teh internet machine and at the end of Jason Gregors show Bob Stauffer called in to update about the meeting an he too said 63 over 7 years. Still a massive amount but 7 years sounds a lot better than 9

  5. therealdeal says:

    Can someone, ANYONE, explain to me why Hossa would possibly be worth $9 million/year until he is 38 years old?? What an idiotic plan.

    Also, Glencross to Calgary according to the Calgary Herald.

  6. Black Dog says:

    First of all I would like to say that I wish the Calgary Flames the best of luck this playoff season.

    Lowe can make it work but it will be tight.

    Seven years is better then nine. Its still insane though.

    My brain agrees with Andy but my brain hasn’t done me a lot of good through the years. Fuck that guy. I’m going with my heart. Sign him to the ridiculous contract.

  7. Mike says:

    Trade Penner…FFS why? If we can bob and weave in other areas to fit Hossa in why oh why would we trade this player when we don’t even know what he might become?

    I guarantee if he is dealt the next topic for discussion is that we lack have a power forward with presenece in front of the net…

    Can I point out AGAIN that he led the team in goals?

    Anyway Hossa is not coming here.

  8. budorduke says:

    Mike, I agree on the bob and weave. I do think its possible Hossa will come, I’m just hoping the bob and weave isn’t Bobby Nilsson as mentioned elsewhere.

  9. Robert says:

    You know, I see all of the Hossa bashers out there and I wonder if they have seen his stats. Consistantly over a point a game with about 50% of those being goals. In Playoffs, he actually averages more than a point a game.

    Also consider what he would do for Hemsky’s assist totals.

    Souray will stay. He is still valuable on the point with Vizvshasdfsd or whatever his name is. Imagine our powerplay with Souray, Vish????, Hossa, Hemsky, and some Pylon…. Thats a top four finish right there.

    AND most importantly, Katz’cash means that you can allways find ways to address the long term of the contract. Such as dumping the player and contract to some team with cap room, getting sad 10 AHL players in return, and then signiing the next big free agent.

    Besides, it would be exciting for Edmonton to land the big fish for once.

  10. Scarlett says:

    I keep thinking of Hossa playing with Hemmer. They would be so awesome together. Yeah 9 years or even 7 years is a long contract, especially at 9 mill per year. BUT…Hossa and Hemsky.

    H&H (or H&H&H if you include Horcoff)

  11. HBomb says:

    Glencross to Calgary, eh? For less money than what the Oilers last (alleged) offer was?

    Must be the lure of potentially playing on the 2nd line in Calgary, due to their complete lack of depth.

    Brule takes his spot, methinks.

    As for Hossa, Marian for seven years at age 29 is just like Souray at 31 for five years in terms of when the deal runs out. Straight up, would I rather have Hossa at 9 or Souray at 60% of that?

    Hossa. No question.

    If the Oilers can land Marian and somehow move along Roloson AND Souray to cover it (replacing Souray with a nice 2 million dollar stay at home d-man), a statue of Kevin Lowe should be commissioned for next to the one of Gretzky. Only bigger.

  12. goldenchild says:

    Brule takes his spot, methinks.

    I don’t think Brule sees NHL ice this year especially with his cap number.

  13. Sean says:

    Is there any way to project what the cap will be in 3 years?

    I don’t like Hossa for 9 years but 7 years is ok. I don’t think the cap is going to level off for a while.

  14. Oilman says:

    My brain agrees with Andy but my brain hasn’t done me a lot of good through the years. Fuck that guy. I’m going with my heart. Sign him to the ridiculous contract.

    In the words of the great Homer Simpson…”Shut up brain or I’ll stab you with a Q-tip”

  15. DeBakey says:

    To make Hossa’s $9 million work

    Exit Souray & Roloson for picks or prospects or suspects.

    Replace with JDD $875,000 and
    add someone like Melichar for $750,00,
    with Reasoner, Stortini & Pouliot signed for $2.5 total.

    Cap hit is just under $55 million.

    Add me to the “I’m not sure I like $9mm for 7 or 9 years group.
    If that makes me a Hossa basher, so be it.

  16. Lord Bob says:

    I’m not sure getting Hossa on a $63 million or $81 million contract is a good idea. But I know I want it to happen! WOO! GOILERS! THE VAUNT IS BACK AND VAUNTIER THAN EVER!

    Trading Souray is, of course, the trouble. The guy has got a no-movement clause, and not a lot of people say “Gee, I’m making a tonne of money to play for my hometown team that suddenly looks like it has a chance at seventh or sixth in the conference and possibly a prolonged playoff run. Better get the hell out of here!”

    Plus, it bears repeating that Souray is still hella popular with your rank and file Oilfan. Talk to a casual Oilers fan and “Souray injured” is the first explanation for why we missed the playoffs last year.

  17. DBO says:

    Just doing some number figuring about the cap the next two years and if we sign Hossa there is no way we can keep one of Cole or Horcoff.

    09/10 salary increase (my projections)
    Horcoff = $1.5 mill
    Cole = $.5 mill
    Brule = $.5 mill
    Greb = $1.5 mill
    Smid = $.5 mill
    Garon = $3.0 mill
    Brodziak = $1 mill
    Total increase = $8.5 million
    i guess if the cap increases by that much then great, but we can’t depend on that to keep the team together. I assume we deal roloson to make room for Hossa so no one comes off the books next year.
    Better in 10/11
    Gagner = $4.00 mill increase
    Cogs = $2.5 mill increase
    Peckham = $.5 mill increase
    total = $7.0 mill
    Off Cap = Pisani = $2.5 mill
    Total cap hit =$4.5 mill.
    That is more reasonable, it is just next year there is no way we keep both Horcoff and Cole unless KLowe pulls some magic and also deals Souray in order to free up enough to eat up Hossa’s deal this year and next. So if we get Hossa, move some parts to free up space then we have this year to make a true run at the cup. i guess the question then becomes, are we a true cup contender with Hossa this year (and take away Rollie and Souray).
    Not sure if we are, and not sure if I’d rather take Naslund for half the price for the next 2 years, and not lose anyone off our roster.

  18. namflashback says:

    It’s a cap killer contract for sure. The new owner is saying go for it — and despite the long-term nature of the offer, it is a short-term deal. It’s trying to make 08-09 a go for it year, since Cole AND Horcoff wouldn’t be able to be re-signed under this type of deal.

  19. Vic Ferrari says:

    I’m actually kind of warming to Souray. I think that fact that every time I saw a YouTube highlight reel for an offensive player last summer, there was at least one clip with Souray the victim … that scared me. And the enormous red number in the plus/minus column, even though those ridonkulously big -s or +s for anybody are always driven mostly by a wacky year of poor EVsave% and empty-net-situation numbers … it was still a worry.

    He hasn’t been as bad at evens as I thought he would be, has a history of being a good PK player, and I’m starting to think more and more that the threat of his violent shot from the point will open up the ice for everyone else a bit more on the PP, especially with a LH shooting Dman like Visnovsky on the left point.

    Don’t get me wrong, if Souray requested a trade tomorrow and Lowe got an AHL vet in return, I wouldn’t shed a tear. But I don’t see the contract as being an enormous albatross or the player being as bad as most here feel that he is at evens.

  20. Vic Ferrari says:

    Yeah DBO, looking at that, I would think that Cole is just here for one season, or someone of similar cost would go.

    Still, having too many good players never seems to be a problem for Detroit. And if you’re a winning team the return on trade usually seems a bit better. Some good players would have to be moved along the way, no doubt, and some young players would come in and put more pressure on the roster as well. I just don’t see it as being a terrible situation to be in, assuming Lowe & Co. make the right choices on who stays and who goes.

  21. Lord Bob says:

    If the rumours are right and Glencross went to Calgary for less than Lowe’s offer, that tells us that either:

    a) Glencross knew he’d be a fourth-liner in Edmonton barring catastrophic injury and that he had a shot at the second or third line in Calgary, and thouhgt that was a more important thing than the bucks.

    b) Glencross grotesquely overvalued himself before July 1 and got terrible advice from his agent. When free agency actually hit, Lowe was saving nickels and dimes to try and move on Hossa and Glencross had to take what he could get.

    c) Glencross thinks Lowe or MacTavish eat.

    I’m inclined towards a combination of a and b, but I have to admit that c is the much more interesting possibility.

  22. Quain says:

    Your projected cap increases seem a little wacky to me, although I agree that signing Hossa means we’re kicking a couple of good players to the curve… but if Brodziak wants an extra one million on his contract, I would show him the door pretty quickly. And the Brule increase is even more ridiculous than that one… and also doesn’t matter as I’m guessing he’s in the minors.

  23. Ender says:

    Ok, but does anyone seriously see either Cole or Penner playing on the third line?

    If Hossa comes, I’d bet Penner and Roli are gone, and if that’s the case, we should still be in good shape for next year.

  24. Vic Ferrari says:

    Does anyone know how much this contract could be front loaded? If Sundin is being offered $20M over two years, then we know that at least 10-10-9-9-8-7-7 is possible. And I’m not going to guess at the rate of salary inflation over the next decade, but I suspect that there is a really good chance that USD 7 million in 2015 is not going to seem that outrageous for a high scoring NHL forward, not at all. A very movable with a good return is possible, hell even likely methinkgs (based on zero research, just an assumption)

    Can more be done with bonus payments, etc?

    Of course it’s easy to mock-spend Katz’s money, he may not be so willing. But fron loaded is good, no? Am I missing something?

  25. Lord Bob says:

    The figures are in on Joni Pitkanen: three years, twelve million as per TSN.

    Gotta say, I thought it would have been more. I’m a little more leery on that trade than I was this time yesterday.

  26. DBO says:

    The icrease might seem large, but remember Brodziak is making less then $.500 this year, so he increases to $1.5 mill. And brule coming off an entry level contract gets a minimum of $.150, so to bump his alary to $1.35 mill is not out of reach. Garon will get $4 million at least based on what goalies are currently signing for. And grebeshkov will get probably more then $3 million per season I project based on the ridiculous numbers defenseman got this year.

  27. misfit says:

    Mike: If we sign Hossa, Penner isn’t going to lead out team in anything. He played on the top PP unit this year. With Hossa and Cole, he doesn’t get those minutes and he doesn’t get 22 points on the powerplay or 13 powerplay goals. He scored 10 at ES with Horcoff and Hemsky. Those won’t be his linemates with Hossa and Cole in the picture either. Best case scenario for him is he gets #2PP time and a guy like Pisani as his linemate at ES.

    Penner’s point totals are going to go down quite a bit already just with Cole being added to the team. Add Hossa, and it’s just going to get worse for him from that perspective. Trading him now might be the best chance to get anything for him, because we won’t be getting much next year when he has 20 less points from the powerplay.

  28. Robert says:

    Good point about signing to a big front loaded contract. This costs big $$ for less return if you trade the guy in year 5 of a 7 year contract (lets say 11-10-9-9-8-6.5-6.5), but it would allow you to get a really good trade return from a low income team (Which thankfully is no longer us) who has salary cap room. Katz’cash allows the Oil to be more creative in this regard. What is really unfortunate is this #@$%@#$ salary cap, it is just holding back teams like ours (it feels good to say that)

  29. CM says:

    Pitkannen for gilbert money

  30. Coach pb9617 says:

    Anyway Hossa is not coming here.

    *crosses fingers*

    After looking at the possible lineup sans Hossa, I’m giddy. Hossa just means we’re going to lose a shitton of kids in the next 3 years.

  31. Coach pb9617 says:

    Also consider what he would do for Hemsky’s assist totals.

    They are both RWs. It won’t work.

  32. Scarlett says:

    I’m sure one can be moved to the left wing.

  33. Coach pb9617 says:

    add someone like Melichar for $750,00,

    He just signed with the Canes. That would have been sweet too.

  34. Coach pb9617 says:

    Ok, but does anyone seriously see either Cole or Penner playing on the third line?

    Wrong place to ask that question!

  35. Coach pb9617 says:

    I’m sure one can be moved to the left wing.

    Ottawa tried and failed.

    Hemsky has never played over there.

    I’ll say it again:

    NO HOSSA, NO HOSSA, NO HOSSA, and STOP!

    Penner – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Gagner – Cogliano – Nilsson
    Cole – Brodziak – Pisani
    Moreau – Pouliot – Stortini

  36. Backhand says:

    Hossa to Redwings

  37. Coach pb9617 says:

    Hossa to Redwings

    YAY!

    Now sign Orpik.

  38. Dennis says:

    Glencross to the flames.

  39. honkey says:

    I hate players that sign with discount for Red Wings. Just hope it isn’t true.

  40. Scarlett says:

    TSN says it’s a one year, $7.4 mill deal to Detroit.

    I hate Detroit.

  41. therealdeal says:

    1 year, $7.4 million for Hossa per TSN. That’s much more in the reasonable range for him.

    Why would you even want to have a guy on your team that wants to be there so little that he wouldn’t even accept $1.6 million extra to go?

    To me all this does is free up some room to sign Horcoff and Cole. Of course, that probably won’t happen anyway.

  42. LittleFury says:

    Jesus, are you kidding me? How much dough did Hossa leave on the table?

  43. The Rage says:

    I can’t help but think everyone is underestimating how much salary we have to clear for hosse. We have 5.8 million free with 4 roster spots open. Let’s assume we sign 3 guys to 2.8 million total. That leaves 3 million remaining. Rolosn’s 3.3 million dollar cap hit would be replaced by let’s say 800,000 for JDD. That’s 5.5 million remaining. Not even close to enough. If we ALSO replace Souray with a 1 million dollar guy, then we’d have enough, but just barely (and our defence would start looking very shaky on the left side). I think to have a decent club we’d have to trade off Souray and Roloson, and probably trade Moreau or Nillson for a 2 milion dollar defenceman to make evrything work. That’s a lot of moves to make everything fit.

  44. Backhand says:

    YAY!

    Now sign Orpik.

    My sentiments exactly. Get a top 5 defence in the league. This will give the kids more chance to grow and make mistakes up front. We have great forwards they are just all under 25.

  45. The Rage says:

    Even if you didn’t want to pay Hossa 9 million, this is bad nes. Essentially, even an extra 1.6 million can’t convince a player to come to Edmonton. Fuck that. Hopefully we’ll be able to pick up a decent ES defenceman or forward.

  46. Lord Bob says:

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

  47. Black Dog says:

    I know Hossa is a multimillionaire over and over so whatever but good for him for choosing less money to take his shot at winning.

    Of course barring injury he gets to do this all over again next year so there will be no tag days.

    What’s next for the Oilers?

    Lets stand pat, shall we?

  48. Doogie says:

    Even if you didn’t want to pay Hossa 9 million, this is bad nes. Essentially, even an extra 1.6 million can’t convince a player to come to Edmonton. Fuck that.

    It can’t convince a player to choose a team that missed the playoffs last year over a team that won the Stanley Cup. Let’s have a little context, here.

  49. Quain says:

    Thank you, God!

    Life is worth living again. Bring on the Horc extension.

  50. HBomb says:

    Ok, does ANYONE want to bet against Detroit repeating as Cup champions?

    Not only did they extend Stuart at a VERY reasonable rate, they’ve basically leveraged their last year of cheap Zetterberg to sign Hossa for one season and give themselves the option of icing three of the top dozen or so forwards in the NHL on ONE LINE (Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hossa).

    Good lord.

  51. HBomb says:

    Jagr on a 2 or 3 year deal intrigues me. Depends on the dollar value I guess….

    Discuss.

  52. goldenchild says:

    I said yesterday I would rather have Jagr on a 2 year deal and I hope thats how this turns out but I must admit the Hossa deal is deflating.

  53. heed says:

    thank god. i’ve never been so happy to see the detroit red wings get better. if that was even possible. i liked our lineup before all the hossa madness swept in. it could have been interesting but i’m thinking like most things oiler-related, it would have blown up in our face.

  54. Coach pb9617 says:

    Lets stand pat, shall we?

    Nope.

    Now Orpik.

  55. Doogie says:

    It would be far too difficult to try to navigate the cap clearance this year, never mind beyond, if we signed Hossa. I mean, seriously, do you want Horcoff and Garon (and maybe Cole) past this year, or do you want Hossa? Because that’s what it comes down to. Read PDO’s comment on how many raises we could be looking at over the next two years, and The Rage’s on how many guys we’d have to replace just for this year.

    I cannot emphasize this enough: This is fantastic news.

  56. Black Dog says:

    I like Hossa a lot and I was hoping for him to sign, honestly but doogie’s comment about context is right on the money.

    Guy wants to win the Cup and so he signed with the team that is odds on favourite to win it. Again.

    Next year he will get the bids again and if he has won then maybe he will come to Edmonton or maybe he will not.

    coach – I like Orpik a lot but its going to be mad money to get him.

  57. garnet says:

    Pity about Glencross, though.

  58. choppystride says:

    Honestly, I think the most pissed-off team should be PIT.

    Funny stuff…

    OTOH, I’m wondering if Havlat’s still in play?

  59. Lord Bob says:

    Ok, does ANYONE want to bet against Detroit repeating as Cup champions?

    Yes. Ty Conklin + Marian Hossa = the hockey gods are not that cruel.

    Here’s my idea of context: he turned down more money than most of us have made over our entire lives to go live in North America’s most notorious slum and be a supporting player in a market that, in spite of the grandiose nickname, hardly cares about hockey. It’s good news aside from the fact that it reinforces that nobody wants to play here and makes us look like even more of a second-rate organisation.

  60. Doogie says:

    It’s good news aside from the fact that it reinforces that nobody wants to play here and makes us look like even more of a second-rate organisation.

    Wait, not ass-raping ourselves against the cap for the next several years makes us a second-rate organization? Last year, weren’t we saying just the opposite?

  61. Coach pb9617 says:

    coach – I like Orpik a lot but its going to be mad money to get him.

    Re-sign Hedja

  62. namflashback says:

    Oh jeez, Lord Bob, get over your inferiority complex.

    He also turned down New York, arguably one of the top three metropolitan cities of the world. He also turned down Montreal, for all its European flavour in NA. He also turned down Pittsburgh with all its great young talent.

    He actually made the choice to go to a place to win.

  63. danny says:

    I’m not sure letting GlenX go for the sake of $1.1M, especially to the Flames was a good move. There are more than a few fringe contracts that could be dropped/bought to make room for the 200K difference between GlenX being an Oiler or a Flame.

    Meh.

  64. Ofer says:

    I’m just not sure Orpik is the best option…don’t you guys remember what happened with Erik Cole.

    Cole wouldn’t even accept his apology.

  65. Sean says:

    Not a bad move by Hossa. Get your cup, play with elite wingers to pad your stats while the cap probably goes up and get an even better contract next year.

    Watching hockey this season is going to be like watching the movie Titanic – Detroit winning the cup is almost as likely as the boat sinking.

  66. Black Dog says:

    coach – too late :) but that would have worked

    lord B. – your man has made tens of millions already and will make tens of millions more – here’s as close to a guarantee that he will win

    he also turned down a whack of other places, including NY and Montreal, from the sounds of it

    I have a feeling New Yorkers or Montrealers aren’t worrying about being second rate, neither should northern Albertans

  67. Lord Bob says:

    I should add that I’m not mad at Hossa. Being a free agent means he gets to sign where he wants to, and good on him for doing what he thought was best.

    I’m just mad at hockey.

  68. Bruce says:

    I’m simultaneously:

    – pissed off at how Detroit can sign guys for 80% of their “market value” (whatever the fuck that means)
    – baffled as to how Hossa coiuld leave upwards of $50 MM on the table (it’s a gamble that he doesn’t get hurt this year, and it’s hard to see his value going up)
    – relieved that he didn’t sign here for a debilitating contract and term. I would rather build with the young talent we got than have to shed a bunch of assets and salary to make room for a stud who may have already seen his best days.

  69. Bruce says:

    Katz introduction conference just starting now on The Score (and maybe other channels)

  70. Lord Bob says:

    Also, I think (as I said above) part of the reason Glencross got away is because Lowe had to save his pennies to try and get Hossa. So part of the reason I’m also mad is that it’s pretty clear the Oilers were being jerked around to extort a few more bucks from someplace Hossa had any intention of going.

    Do I have an inferiority complex? Probably, but it’s July 2, I’ve been at work since 6:00, I’m hung over, and we just lost the best player available for the exact opposite of the reason that we used to lose our best players.

  71. Doogie says:

    Also, I think (as I said above) part of the reason Glencross got away is because Lowe had to save his pennies to try and get Hossa. So part of the reason I’m also mad is that it’s pretty clear the Oilers were being jerked around to extort a few more bucks from someplace Hossa had any intention of going.

    This is a fair point. I have to admit, I was disappointed to see Glencross sign in Calgary, of all places, and for less than what the Oilers were reportedly offering. It’s not a massive loss, but it could bite us at some point over the next three years.

  72. Vic Ferrari says:

    Not at all, Lord Bob.

    I think that the Oilers showed that they are committed to being competitive and that they are willing to spend money to do it. That’s an important part of attracting UFAs I think.

    Now, the Oilers have to get better, to become a legitimately good team, to have a chance to take the next step. I mean I know it was before the UFA era, but I can’t imagine that many players were dreaming of playing for Detroit the day after Ilitch took over either.

    Now I’m sure they’ll carry on. I like choppystride’s idea of pursuing Havlat, injury issues aside, the guy has played some brutally tough minutes since landing in Chicago and put up some terrific numbers doing it. Morrison is a very good player if he really is fully fit. I like Nagy a lot. Fedotenko makes this team better.

    They need Jason Smith or similar on the back if the price is right as well. At a Sauer type of rate.

    And what the hell, I’d even be happy if they gave Doug Weight a booty call. I don’t care that he’s falling apart at the seams and doesn’t win his share of puck battles any more, he can still dangle, and I’m Jonesing for some symbolism today.

    The age of reason in Oilerville is fading into the age of wonder. And that’s a good thing, Bob.

  73. Kish says:

    I’m just not sure Orpik is the best option…don’t you guys remember what happened with Erik Cole.

    Cole wouldn’t even accept his apology.
    I’m surprised this is the first anyone has mentioned this. When I heard about the Cole deal, I knew that meant bye-bye Orpik. But, time heals all wounds, as they say, so maybe Cole has calmed down a bit… or maybe a broken neck is something you just don’t get over.

  74. Mike says:

    NO-SSA!!

    ZZZZIIIINNNGG!

    It is for the best. But fucking Detroit? Those smug pricks. I was hoping we’d just get outbid.

  75. jon k says:

    Hossa would have been nice but the term would have been crippling I think in the long run.

    That said, prepare to see Jagr sign somewhere: 3 years, 22 million.
    Could be Edmonton.

  76. Coach pb9617 says:

    I’m surprised this is the first anyone has mentioned this. When I heard about the Cole deal, I knew that meant bye-bye Orpik. But, time heals all wounds, as they say, so maybe Cole has calmed down a bit… or maybe a broken neck is something you just don’t get over.

    35 pounds of polished silver and nickel makes broken necks and hurt feelings feel much, much better.

  77. Dennis says:

    I also didn’t want to go 9/81 for Hossa but unless Brule really turns out, losing out on Hossa and not signing GlenX means Lowe put the cart before the horse when it comes to chasing Marian and now we’re going young again in ’09 and Horc’s on potentially his last legs.

    Not to mention, Cole.

    You know, I didn’t expect Souray to be bought out BEFORE they signed Hossa — though I wish they would’ve done it and kept Pitkanen — but I get the feeling that Raffi was punted because of his money and before they had a chance to spend it somewhere else.

    And that looks like a mistake unless Pouliot makes a Real jump into the 3rd line centre.

    And, I think we now also have to re-examine the 25/Cole deal given that the former signed for 4/12. For sucksakes, that’s Jeff Finger money and I think a lot of folks would’ve been pleased to see him re-up for that here.

    So, unless Cole re-ups for less than outrageous money, that deal isn’t gonna look good either.

  78. misfit says:

    Orpik? Who cares about Orpik? The guy sucks. Why not trade for Denis Gauthier while we’re at it. Honestly. The guy was a bottom pairing defenceman in the playoffs for Pitsburgh, and he got killed in the process (how are you a minus player on a 13-4 team?). He did the same in the regular season, only he got slightly better results.

    I think people are getting a little too excited about a 5 hit shift in the playoffs.

  79. CM says:

    that GlenX deal looks pretty good. To bad its fucking calgary

  80. Doogie says:

    A. Gauthier played for the Flyers, and B. he’s in LA now.

    Also, I get the impression that the stumbling block on Pitkanen was term, not dollars. Which is kind of understandable, given his recent injury history.

  81. Mike says:

    So we are done, right? Standing pat? Cooling our heels? Taking a five?

    Methinks not. Just a feelin’.

    And although we would not pay dollars for Glencross, there will be a price…he’ll be fucking all over us 8 times this season. How did we let that happen?

  82. namflashback says:

    Mike 6 times. Doesn’t the divisional heavy schedule change this year?

  83. DBO says:

    First: Pitkanen did not want to be here, he wanted at least $5 mill to stay, which is why he’s been traded.
    Second: GlenX is replaced by Brule and i think Brule will be better. No way Glencross shoots at 20% again this season. brule hits everything like GLencross did, and he has more offensive upside.
    Oh and on team 1260 Stauffer mentioned earlier that Stortini wants a bunch of money, so who knows whether he ends up.

  84. DBO says:

    and TSN is reporting malkin resigned, prob for 5 years at $8.7 mill.

  85. DOOGIE81 says:

    Other doogie – I think misfit is talking about Orpik, and I’ll second BDHS – I think it’s going to take a ton of $$$ to get Orpik, and we basically have his skillset in Peckham coming.

    The Havlat idea is intriguing, Corsi number is good, Qualcomp OK, but whats the Injury status?

  86. Bruce says:

    I’m actually kind of warming to Souray. He hasn’t been as bad at evens as I thought he would be, has a history of being a good PK player, and I’m starting to think more and more that the threat of his violent shot from the point will open up the ice for everyone else a bit more on the PP, especially with a LH shooting Dman like Visnovsky on the left point.

    Right on, Vic, I see things much the same way. Souray is a unique package, he certainly has his weaknesses (foot speed, tendency to gamble, “highlight reel” one-on-one play) but he brings an array of strengths too, especially on special teams as you point out. He also has good size and cycle-busting capability, and from what I’ve seen I like his attitude. If he can only stay healthy — which is Reason #1 I didn’t like the contract — he will be an interesting player to watch, and you can never have too many of those.

    I don’t see the contract as being an enormous albatross or the player being as bad as most here feel that he is at evens.

    It’s an albatross, but it looks a lot less enormous in light of the ever-rising “market value” of defencemen, e.g. Campbell, Streit, Finger.

    Now that Oilers are down a defenceman, though (Pitkanen, Greene out, Visnovsky in), signing another vet is in order, preferably on the cheap. Alas, some of the best bargains — Sauer, Vaananen, Melichar — have already been snapped up by other clubs. Who’s left out there in the < $2 MM range who could help this club?

  87. DOOGIE81 says:

    Bruce-

    Jason Smith??

    I think Peckham/Chorney are in the mix. Roy is perfect for the 7th man (until his head falls off from the next hit-from-behind)

    I think there is more focus on the F’s, and let the 6-7 D-man come from within, again.

  88. Mike says:

    Nam

    It will feel like 8 times

    ;-)

  89. DOOGIE81 says:

    Anyone else figure Lowe can hold back from throwing the ‘Hossa Money’ at someone lesser, or does he flip and go hard for Jagr or Sundin?

  90. Deans says:

    The only thing Glencross will be “all over” next season is the waiver wire.

  91. Dennis says:

    ___As for the critique that Lowe would have been better off keeping fan favourite Ryan Smyth, as opposed to signing Souray, Nichols says: “Kevin felt he could replace the goals up front somehow over time. But he saw Souray being a bit of replacement for Pronger, the anchor back there on defence.”____

    That was from Staples piece today. I don’t think it should go unnoticed that the guy in charge of the moves of the franchise felt that Souray could replace Pronger and it was also mentioned in the piece that the Oilers went over a million beyond what anyone else was offering. Like I said, Horc still hasn’t been inked longterm and 25 signed for a very affordable rate in

    The thing about the Hossa signing is A: he either didn’t believe the Pens could topple the Wings in ’09 or B: he really didn’t want to live in the city of Pit. The guy’s still going to get paid for the one season but we all thought he’d be just as justified taking the 7/47 “paycut” the Pens offered in return for constant Cup contention as he would be to take 7.4 for the ’09 season in Det.

    It’s a weird call all around and the Wings are living the dream right now: they’ve got space to use and they get to use it on a vet for one year, thereby not fucking up their overall salary structure in terms of guys who will be their longterm.

    Honestly, it’s the best case for these guys.

  92. Dennis says:

    the souray money might look “better and better” in relative terms to other contracts but we’ll still have guys to pay that will have to walk because we’re paying sheldon too much money.

    that won’t change no matter how fingers the leaves take.

  93. visiondude says:

    Quick question about the cap…can you actually be over it and just pay a luxury tax (like in the NBA)?

    Listening to CHED…and Klowe made it sound like that if they went over the cap by signing Hossa, that they would just be over the cap.

    Also, Klowe said that we were one of the front runners, with Katz, and Horcoff calling Hossa.

  94. Bruce says:

    Doogie 81: Maybe Gator. He’s got a lot of mileage but I think he’s got a couple years left as a third pairing guy with a tonne of intangibles. But I would say almost the same thing about Steve Staios.

    Otherwise I agree they will likely try to break in one or more of the young guys from an impressive well of talent. As it stands, with Greene out of the picture Smid is the #6 guy, and that’s not such a bad thing. The worry is what happens when somebody goes down with a long-term injury, but the inevitable nicks and scratches will open the door for Roy/Peckham/Chorney to get a chance to find their legs, and that’s not all bad by any means.

  95. Bruce says:

    … and Hrabal

  96. Dennis says:

    Vision: you’re allowed to be, I think , 10% over until the start of the season, I believe. So, the Oil could’ve given Hossa the moon and then tried to get rid of Souray etc all summer before exercision all options before the season started.

    I imagine we’re gonna play this same dance with Hossa next summer, though. ZBerg has to get paid in Det so Hossa won’t be able to crash there longterm and Lowe’s long made public his love of Hossa.

  97. Dennis says:

    Bruce: you’ll most often lose two dmen a year for a decent stretch so yes depth is a concern in that our depth are kids and our D 4-6 are also kids.

    77 looked great in the first half and 37 looked great in the second half and even 5 started to show up on a nightly basis, my concern is that two of them will blip during ’09 and we’ll be hard pressed to cover for them. This will be less and less a concern by 2010 when their collective GP has risen again but they’re far from topping out and that’s why you worry and why you like vets who have less uncertainty in their game.

  98. Dennis says:

    What are the terms of the Glencross contract??

  99. Knamely Lacked says:

    Anyone else think the Oilers and Devils might be partners?

    The Devils I would think are still looking for puck moving defencemen, and last I checked we had a couple?

  100. Knamely Lacked says:

    $3.3 million over three years is what I am hearing Dennis.

  101. Coach pb9617 says:

    77 looked great in the first half and 37 looked great in the second half and even 5 started to show up on a nightly basis, my concern is that two of them will blip during ’09 and we’ll be hard pressed to cover for them.

    I don’t think Smid is your ‘blip’. The Oilers screwed him two years ago, but last year his play came around slowly. I expect a nice calm, solid year out of him. I just hope he’s paired with a calm stable partner.

  102. HBomb says:

    Dennis,

    Glencross inked for 1.1 per year for 3 years with the Flamers.

  103. Jonathan says:

    especially with a LH shooting Dman like Visnovsky on the left point.

    One problem: Visnovsky hates playing the RH point, has only done it for one year (last year, when his numbers plummeted) and, like Souray relies on the one-timer.

    With regard to finding a cheap defenseman who can play tough minutes – Marek Malik. Combine that with a nice third line forward and a salary dump trade of Souray, and this team is nicely positioned going forward. Even if they can’t grab Jagr or a similar winger.

  104. Jonathan says:

    Sorry, tah should say: Visnovsky hates playing the LH point and is less effective than on the RH point.

  105. PunjabiOil says:

    MacT really ripped Pitkanen. Pitkanen indicated he wouldn’t be a good fit to the team, and MacT questioned his committment to winning.

  106. Rod says:

    dennis:
    re: Pitkanen

    I’m a Pitkanen booster (or was), and I was really hoping the Oilers would find a way to keep him for at least another season.

    Wasn’t going to happen though.

    MacT interview on the Team 1260 (after the Katz presser) was very revealing. Topic of Pitkanen started out about a “difference in philosophy” as the reason he’s gone. MacT said that was a “complimentary way of phrasing it”. MacT went on to say he didn’t see a commitment to win from Pitkanen (particularly a team game). Strides were made through the year though, so MacT thought they were making some progress (conversation at the end of the year reinforced that apparently).

    Then, from what MacT said, Pitkanen informed the Oil he didn’t want to come back. MacT figured that might become a pattern for Pitkanen and that he’ll be a nomad.

    So, let go of Pitkanen’s deal in Carolina. It wasn’t going to happen here. Period.

    That said, we can question the return. One year of Cole isn’t enough…

  107. namflashback says:

    Rod,

    yeah — a Cole + conditional pick(in the event that he isn’t re-signed) would have been reasonable.

  108. Tyler says:

    on team 1260 Stauffer mentioned earlier that Stortini wants a bunch of money

    Good lord. If I was Kevin Lowe, I’d take this as a personal affront. Lowe went way out on a limb for the fucking guy.

    Also, on the topic of convincing Souray to waive his NMC. You know how teams get their guys to call FA targets? Do they also get them to participate in this?

    “Hey it’s Shawn. Just calling to let you know that we’re having a pool on who can sleep with your wife first. We’re willing to let you participate, although we think it’d be like stealing your money.”

  109. Coach pb9617 says:

    With regard to finding a cheap defenseman who can play tough minutes – Marek Malik.

    That’s a damn, damn fine idea.

  110. IceDragoon says:

    quain: Life is worth living again. Bring on the Horc extension.

    According to Kevin Lowe, chatting with stalker Stauffer after the Katz presser, Horcoff was heavily involved in wooing Hossa.

    man… I hope they replay these one-on-ones on his show tonight. some really good stuff.

    Rod has given some of the MacTavish highlights… He was also asked about keeping the kid line together. He went into ~”Will Gagner develop? … Will Cogliano develop? … Will Nilsson be a first line player?

    Things that make you go…

    hmmm…

  111. IceDragoon says:

    um,

    man… I hope they replay these one-on-ones on his show tonight. some really good stuff.

    Jason Gregor’s show, that is.

  112. Dennis says:

    If that interview becomes available online, can someone post it? Hopefully it turns up on Gregor’s site.

    Here’s a link to the Oilers current depth chart via the club’s official site:

    http://oilers.nhl.com/roster/depth.htm

    In it’s current infancy, 51 or 78 is in for a big promotion and as an aside, I don’t think 19 will be coming back or else we would’ve heard it as soon as 16 was dealt.

    The Oilers are gonna have an interesting thing going on over on the left side knowing:

    A: Cole will want to play with 10-83

    B: what are you going to get from Penner if you don’t play Him with 10-83

    C: 12 can’t play checking line min

    D: If you want to entice Cole to come back, you’d best let him play with the talent.

  113. Dennis says:

    One other note: I was dead against giving GlenX 1.5 but I could certainly role with 3/3.33 and a subsequent buyout of Moreau.

  114. Oilman says:

    I realize Moreau is Mr. Glass and all, but didn’t the team turn around right when he got back into the lineup….I really think he helped instill that “we’re going to be a tough team to play against” attitude. Hopefully he comes back healthy this year…his injuries last year were of the “freak” variety really and I don’t think there’s much danger of recurrence….although I wouldn’t be surprised for him to drop a weight bar on his own neck during a latenight solitary workout at rexall and be discovered the next day by cleaning staff in a pile of his own shit and vomit….Ethan Moreau sidelined indefinitely with an undisclosed upper body injury.

  115. PunjabiOil says:

    I’m absolutely fine with letting Glencross go. He is what he is – a 4th liner with potential to move up. I’d argue it was Brodziak that was the star of the 4th line.

    on team 1260 Stauffer mentioned earlier that Stortini wants a bunch of money

    Yeah, he’s rumoured to be asking 1M. Kevin Lowe really has the leverage this time around. Hold him out at camp, and into the season, if neccessary. No more than 600K on a 1 year deal, and no more than 2 years at 1.3M.

  116. Rod says:

    MacT’s interview is getting replayed on the Team1260 “in a few minutes”… In theory anyway.

  117. Dennis says:

    PJO: I thought it was the chem between 20-51 that really drove that 4th line. That’s why I was willing to say it would be easy to shove 78 on that line instead of 46 and things could keep going on.

    In any case, looks like 51-78 are gonna take the last two pivot slots unless something else happens.

    Fuck, this team’s young down the middle now.

  118. Dennis says:

    BTW, just reading through a bunch of papers for coverage of the aftermath and Howson and the BJ’s called Redden’s agent to say they did not want to lose Wade over terms of money per year.

    Unbelievable.

  119. gary b says:

    Columbus ships out Zherdev and Fritsche for Tyutin and Backman. Scott Howson’s certainly earning is pay this week…

  120. HBomb says:

    Hmmm, Glencross-Cogliano-Pisani would have been an interesting 3rd line combination…..

    Sigh.

    Part of me thinks there’s other Glencross-types out there, but damn, I liked that guy and am sick to see that he’s going to Calgary.

    I wish him nothing but a 3% shooting percentage over the next 3 years.

  121. doritogrande says:

    Orpik re-signed with Pittsburgh.

    http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242290&lid=sublink03&lpos=headlines_main

    6 years, 22.5-M. Cap-hit of 3.75 per.

  122. Bruce says:

    //on team 1260 Stauffer mentioned earlier that Stortini wants a bunch of money//

    Yeah, he’s rumoured to be asking 1M. Kevin Lowe really has the leverage this time around. Hold him out at camp, and into the season, if neccessary. No more than 600K on a 1 year deal, and no more than 2 years at 1.3M.

    I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop with Zack. He (and his agent) likely sees the Oilers qualifying Pouliot at ~$1 MM coming off a 24 GP season and a long stint in the A, while Stortini himself became a regular in the NHL.

    Not saying he’s right or wrong, but I’ve been thinking all along that those who assume 46 will just re-sign for a lowball raise because he’s just happy to be here might be over-optimistic. Just as many were with GlenX.

    Agreed that Lowe has leverage, but only until some other team comes in with an offer sheet. A guy like Zack might be a good fit on a few teams looking for toughness and character in a big, young package; a million a year isn’t that much, and if the Oil let him walk they would get zero (?) compensation.

    IMO Stortini has earned a half-decent raise coming out of his entry-level, league-minimum contract; something in the $700-800 K range doesn’t seem out of line to me. Two years totalling $1.5 MM would be good.

  123. DeBakey says:

    I’ve been pencilling Zach in at $725 in my mind.

    Two years $1.4 to 1.5 is fair
    I think.
    Rob Davison would probably do it for $659 tho’

    As in the case of Glencross
    You can become pennywise & pound foolish.

    [Hossa Pound foolish]

  124. Bruce says:

    Debakey: Entirely agree the reported Hossa offer was “pound foolish”; he’s a good player but if we’re going to throw Ovechkin-type money around, I’d like to get an Ovechkin-type player. That would have hamstrung Oilers pay structure for years to come. Far better to develop your own and pay as you grow.

    I too am baffled by the GlenX situation. He was reportedly asking for $1.5 to $2 MM and I don’t blame Lowe one bit for drawing a line in the sand well south of that. But I agreed with those who thought he was worth $1 MM to $1.2 MM, and that’s exactly what Calgary paid (three years, either $3.2, $3.3 or $3.6 MM depending on which source you believe). I would have been very happy to see him sign that same contract here in Edmonton and am puzzled as to what went down. It sucks that he wound up with the Flames, whose weakness has been third- and fourth-line depth.

  125. Lowetide says:

    I think the Oilers made a mistake by not signing Glencross and it will bite them in the ass.

    Having said that, they were after Hossa and would have had to tweak the roster heavily if he’d signed.

    So maybe they asked him to hold off, but I understand Glencross moving on and certainly understand the Oilers waiting until they had final word on Hossa.

  126. choppystride says:

    Not surprised that Horc was involved in the Hossa recruitment campaign. He and the Hossa brothers played together in Mora during the lockout year.

    Speaking of the Hossa brothers, I wrote a piece on HF some time ago making a case for acquiring Marcel Hossa as a way to entice Marian to come here. As we’ll likely be doing the Marian Dance same time next year, perhaps we should try to grab Marcel now.

    BTW, what happened to Marcel anyway? I remember watching him with the NYR 2 years ago in the playoffs and he seemed like a decent player, a viable bottom sixer at the very least.

  127. RiversQ says:

    coach said…
    The Oilers screwed him two years ago, but last year his play came around slowly.

    You know that is a fair way of looking at it IMO.

    Some posters seemed to get offended by certain people in the blogosphere, but we weren’t ripping on Smid in his first year; it was the concept of playing him serious minutes with Staios that we couldn’t stomach.

  128. jason says:

    hey, here is the site i was talking about where i made the extra cash, I was making about $900 extra a month…
    check it out ..

  129. jason says:

    hey, here is the site i was talking about where i made the extra cash, I was making about $900 extra a month…
    check it out ..

  130. RiversQ says:

    Hey Bonsignore, fuck off.

  131. Lowetide says:

    RQ: Line-of-the-year. Spit coffee.

  132. Black Dog says:

    Beauty line RQ.

    Fucking Bonsignore.

  133. Dennis says:

    I guess the oldtimers would’ve also appreciated Soules?;)

  134. Doogie says:

    I think misfit is talking about Orpik

    I see that now. Whoops.

    (Also, I see this rapidly getting confusing. I think I’m going to add my old gamer-tag extension onto my name to make distinguishing easier. I was going to just go with my name, Jason, but I see now that Bosignore has taken it and made me look bad with it. Fucking Bonsignore…)

    I also love the news that Horc talked to Hossa, and that as soon as the bulk of the FA BS is done with, Horc’s next on the list.

    BTW, what happened to Marcel anyway?

    He’s with 99 now. (Doesn’t that make him sound dead?)

  135. Ribs says:

    Phoenix didn’t qualify Marcel Hossa so he signed with Dinamo Riga of the new Continental Hockey League (which replaces the Russian Super League).

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