Peek at the Depth Chart

Word this morning (from a Russian newspaper) that Jagr has signed a deal with a KHL team in the Hinterland.

Kevin Lowe’s shopping list (top 2line scorer and toughness) remains, and although the targets have been exceptional (Hossa, Jagr, BG) they’re all gone and what remains isn’t likely to be an improvement on the current Mudville 9.

I thought it might be an idea to post a guess at the depth chart. A few things have changed (MacT mentioned getting outstanding news on Rob Schremp and for some reason named JF Jacques as a possible solution despite his back problems) since the last time we have a look at this so I’ll post my list and I welcome your input.

Forwards

  1. Shawn Horcoff
  2. Dustin Penner
  3. Ales Hemsky
  4. Sam Gagner
  5. Andrew Cogliano
  6. Robert Nilsson
  7. Kyle Brodziak
  8. Erik Cole
  9. Fernando Pisani
  10. Ethan Moreau
  11. Marc Pouliot
  12. Zack Stortini
  13. Rob Schremp
  14. Tim Sestito
  15. Ryan O’Marra
  16. Gilbert Brule
  17. Ryan Potulny
  18. Bryan Lerg
  19. Liam Reddox
  20. Slava Trukhno
  21. JF Jacques (injured)

I think that’s everyone. Don’t go crazy on where Erik Cole is slotted, hell he’s the third most important name on that list for this season (maybe 4th depending on Gagner’s progress). Anyway, the cutline isn’t really 14, it’s 12. Why? I think the Oilers will sign Reasoner and they’ll also get someone who can play the role of enforcer.

We also need to consider things like Ethan Moreau’s health and Zack Stortini’s apparent stupidity. I listed a guess at the D depth chart last night, might as well do it again for reference:

Defense

  1. Lubomir Visnovsky
  2. Sheldon Souray
  3. Denis Grebeshkov
  4. Tom Gilbert
  5. Steve Staios
  6. Ladislav Smid
  7. Mathieu Roy
  8. Theo Peckham
  9. Josef Hrabel
  10. Taylor Chorney
  11. Cody Wild
  12. Bryan Young
  13. Sebastien Bisaillon

I wish they had another veteran with some gumption (and maybe that’s how Lowe will address the toughness issue) but there are some nice things here.

Goalies

  1. Mathieu Garon
  2. Dwayne Roloson
  3. Jeff Deslauriers

The most likely players to get dealt from this roster between now and opening day are Dwayne Roloson, Marc Pouliot and Mathieu Roy.

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95 Responses to "Peek at the Depth Chart"

  1. Coach pb9617 says:

    You know, considering the comments from MacTavish the other day, I have an inkling that he’s noodling something like:

    Nilsson – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Penner – Gagner – Cole
    Moreau – Cogliano – Pisani
    Pouliot – Brodziak – Stortini

  2. Jonathan says:


    13. Rob Schremp
    14. Tim Sestito
    15. Ryan O’Marra
    16. Gilbert Brule
    17. Ryan Potulny
    18. Bryan Lerg
    19. Liam Reddox
    20. Slava Trukhno
    21. JF Jacques (injured)

    I’m guessing you’re going by percieved lineup needs, but even so, that list seems a little out of whack to me.

    Potulny must clear waivers to be sent down and the Oilers just invested a pick in him, so I figure he ought to be closer to the top. Reddox got into a game last year and should be way ahead of Sestito and a bunch of others too, IMO. O’Marra spent lots of time in the ECHL last year; he should be a ways down. With that in mind, here’s how I’d order them:

    13. Potulny
    14. Schremp
    15. Reddox
    16. Brule
    17. Sestito
    18. Lerg
    19. Trukhno
    20. O’Marra
    21. Jacques (injured)

    at least in terms of distance from the NHL roster. Does that seem reasonable?

  3. Lowetide says:

    Wow. That’s an interesting lineup. Cole’s natural position is RW too, no?

    Hmmm. It’s great because Nilsson’s signed and he’ll get a spike in numbers and Gagner should work well with Cole too.

    I like this, coach. Nice idea.

  4. Lowetide says:

    jonathan: Yeah, as soon as MacT gets his enforcer (or gives up on the idea again) then Sestito falls to 20 imo.

    As for Potulny, it’s hard to know where he’ll slot in. He’s done some things in the NHL though, so your point is well taken.

  5. Jonathan says:

    jonathan: Yeah, as soon as MacT gets his enforcer (or gives up on the idea again) then Sestito falls to 20 imo.

    You know, I slotted Brule and Reddox above Sestito with the thought that they could play a similar kind of gritty game, but I completely forgot for a moment that they’re both rather undersized. Especially with Jacques out, that’s a really ugly depth chart for a 4th-line size guy. Luckily, those guys are a dime a dozen, and I rather expect we see one before the end of training camp.

  6. Black Dog says:

    Not bad, I wouldn’t complain if they went with this to start.

    I actually think Roy stays because he is ideal as the seventh man – is it better for Peckham or Hrabel to play a ton in the AHL or sit in the pressbox? Roy can sit in the PB and draw in for minor aches, the other two come up for any lengthy absences.

    Pouliot too and I would actually have him centre the fourth line. He is more effective as a centre and we know Brodziak can play the wing.

    I thought Cole was a LW??

    What did MacT say about Schremp, LT?

  7. Asiaoil says:

    Next season is still a development year although the playoffs are clearly the goal. So we could try sign Peca…..although it may be better to see what Brodziak and/or MAP can do on the 3rd line between Moreau and Pisani. I like Cogs a lot and he will eventually be a great 2 way player – but he’s not ready for that gig and neither is Brodziak for that matter. MAP has the size, awareness and passing to compliment Moreau and Pisani and could be a good fit.

    As for grit…Asham is still out there – and although he’s not that big – he hits anything that moves and would be cheap.

    Speaking of 4th liners….anyone else notice that UFA Shean Donovan got $0.625 million over 2 years in Ottawa – while GlenX got $1.2 million over 3 years? Very comparable players IMHO – CAL overpaid big time.

  8. Black Dog says:

    asia – I would go with MP in that spot for sure except that would likely mean either Cogliano or Cole on the wing, I think. I know LT is all for Cole being there but I don’t know.

    Still a little bit too young but as you said its still a bridge year – so it goes. Have to sacrifice a few wins in order to get the kids experience. Bringing in a guy like Peca would win a few games now but would not help next year.

  9. Jonathan says:

    it may be better to see what Brodziak and/or MAP can do on the 3rd line between Moreau and Pisani.

    I really, really, like that idea except that we have to rely on Moreau, both to play tough minutes and to be healthy. Coming off two seasons in which he was hurt and was exposed against tough oppposition, I don’t trust him. Either way, we would basically be throwing two question marks (Moreau, Kid) out with Pisani against the big guns. It makes me nervous.

  10. budorduke says:

    Wow San Jose is going to have a pretty good defense core this year, according to TSN they’ve acquired Boyle..

  11. DBO says:

    While iget the too young thing, last time I checked the top 3 centres on Pittsburgh don’t top 22. I know they are exceptional talents, but age to me is less important then ability. that being said i’d like to see them sign Jason Williams formally of the Blackhawks. i read somewhere yesterday that he had close to a 60% on the faceoff dot, and brings solid two way play while having enough skill to put up decent numbers. Sign Williams and Jason Smith and a 40 game per year true heavywieght (maybe Mathieu Roy?)

  12. DBO says:

    Man, tampa is a totally different team, and that deal saves them more then $3.2 mill against the cap. that gives them if they want, more then $8 million to sign another player. I like pretty much every move they’ve done. Tampa will prob sign a vet dman, and i give them a decent shot at their conference title.

  13. Steve says:

    O’Marra spent lots of time in the ECHL last year; he should be a ways down.

    Yeah, when I saw O’Marra ahead of Brule, I thought “geez, I know Brule’s not ready, but is he ithat not ready?”

    Tampa will prob sign a vet dman, and i give them a decent shot at their conference title.

    Bwuh?

  14. DBO says:

    Steve: look at their team, and remember they are competing with washington, Atlant, Carolina and Florida for their division title. My bad, not conference, i meant division. The bwuh is warrented.

  15. Steve says:

    My bad, not conference, i meant division.

    Ah – that makes more sense. But wasn’t having Olaf Kolzig as a starter what almost prevented Washington from winning it last year?

  16. Coach pb9617 says:

    Wow. That’s an interesting lineup. Cole’s natural position is RW too, no?

    Indeed it is, and I believe that Nilsson has switched a number of times back and forth. He can also easily ‘keep up’ with Hemmer as so many others haven’t been able to previously. MacTavish wondered aloud if Nilsson was ready to be a first line player in response to the question about the kid line staying together. He didn’t wonder the same about Gagner or Cogs – he wondered about their development process. You know as well as anyone that he’s nothing but turthful and blunt in his interviews leaving very few lines to read between and I don’t see why he deviates in one off-season interview.

    That trade is turning out to be a beauty deal.

    Hmmm. It’s great because Nilsson’s signed and he’ll get a spike in numbers and Gagner should work well with Cole too.

    Gagner’s already locked into a big number too, it’s just a matter of how big. Couple of points here – the first line will likely draw the ginders and the contact. The beastly nature of the wings on either side of Gagner likely means that he’s not going to have to worry much about taking a beating, and it’s a line that should just muder people both on the cycle and down low — an ideal situation for a little kid with a ton of creativity in the middle. The work down low and on the side boards means that they should have the puck for long stretches and he does’nt have to be relied on to carry the play, only use that brain and those hands to find his spots.

    The big concern, of course, is moving Cogs to the tough minutes line, but with young Riley waiting in the wings, and Gagner already on board, the future role for Cogs seems to be Kris Draper, only with some speed ;) unless they send him to the wing. I can’t think of much better protection for a kid than Pisani and Moreau *crosses fingers* and if he can’t handle it, Brodizak should be ready to go, right?

    I love the depth and flexibility on this roster, especially the vets that are able to scoot and play defense. Faceoffs concern me a bit though – Lowe should call Oates for a crash course in faceoffs again.

    I like this, coach. Nice idea.

    It’s July, the roster is pretty much set and it’s two months to hockey season. I’ve got nothing else to do but think and disect interviews down to the sentence. I’m going to have many more ideas before the season starts and most will be bad. Got lucky on this one.

  17. goldenchild says:

    Interesting line up coach and i agree I thought that was a very interesting comment made by Mac-T that kind of went under he radar where he wondered if Nilsson belongs on the top line. Add that to an off hand comment made last year I think at the end of teh season where he said Nilsson could lead the team in scoring. Clearly Row-bert has a fan in the head coach.

    As far as who centers a 3rd line that has Pisani on it, if the Oilers do sign Reasoner then I think that bodes well for MAP as he would clearly have a shot to impress in that role and Reasoner would be esentially insurance.

  18. Dennis says:

    I still see a problem here in that the team looks like one that’s young and coming and will fight for 8th; yet the owner wants to make a splash and start the talk of a new building and missing the playoffs for the third straight year and fourth of the last five seasons really doesn’t fit that MO, IMO.

    I like the forwards corps — though they aren’t ready to win a playoff series against a team with home ice advantage and two lines — and I’d like the D if one of the vets wasn’t a ST specialist instead of being a guy you could count on at evens.

    Forwards: Looks like there’s lot of scoring and the only problem is the second tough line pivot. We might be able to get away with it in terms of making the playoffs just as long as we’re crazy good at home.

    D: You’ve got three vets and three kids but there’s promise in all three kids and especially 37-77; both of those have had half season segments where they looked absolutely for real. The problem is that too much money’s tied up in a guy who has never shown he can be counted on at evens.

    G: Oilers rode Garon into the ground last year and there was never any need for it. I’m on MacT when it comes to this this season. I think he made a mistake last night in how much he played Mathieu. Roli’s there as a dependable 25 game option so why not use him?

    PP: I’m gonna look this up but I think this unit was great for ~ the last 60 games and it seems like all 83 needed was 89; just as 83 needed Pronger before him.

    PK: I’ve said this before but this team can flat-out kill penalties. It doesn’t matter who gets hurt, they still do an excellent job. Now, that being said, they will miss 16 this year and perhaps 19 as well so perhaps the PK will fall back a bit. Right now you’d have to start with 10-51-18-34 as the primary four and 13-78 likely to be the next guys promoted if we decide to go with six guys. 24-44-77 will be the primary three PK and then one of Lubo-Smid-Grebs will round out. As an aside, neither of those guys was great at PKing last year.

  19. Robert says:

    Wow, Jagr prefers to play in Russia over having to come to Edmonton… I understand the pluses for playing in Russia, but it still makes me sad.

    I hope Katz actually succeeds in his redevelopment of the Downtown and in getting this team a ‘Detroit-like’ reputation. I think he is on a good path with Cole and Visnovsky. Hopefully everyone has a career year and the Oilers can start to build that reputation.

    Its unfortunate, but Lowe has to play with the deck stacked against him because 2/3 of NHLers won’t come here. It’s tough being a drab Northern city, but 15 years ago the players had less control and the Oilers could still sell themselves as a great hockey organization.

    It doesn’t help that a player cannot go out in this city to get a cup of coffee without being annoyed by the public. I heard that people used to heckle Brewer in public when he was here. I understand the argument that they are professionals and should be able to handle it, but they don’t have to handle it in about 90% of the cities in the league so why would they choose to when the other factors (losing team, drab city) are not attractive.

  20. Sean says:

    Nilsson – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Penner – Gagner – Cole
    Moreau – Cogliano – Pisani
    Pouliot – Brodziak – Stortini

    Interesting lineup for sure. Nilsson has a good chance of outperforming his contract over the next 3 years. It would be good to give him the best possible chance to succeed.

    Not that there is much top end UFAs left but I’m on board the side that basically adds an enforcer and goes with what we got. I dont want to overpay an average player to come here when I still consider next year a development year. See which of Pouliot, Brodziak, Schremp, Schmid or Peckham step up and stay 2-3 million under the cap. Adding players is cheap at the deadline.

  21. DBO says:

    Jagr: 2 years $35 million. I don’t think he thought edmonton was bad, just can’t walk away from an extra $22 million over the next 2 years, tax free.

    One thing about this lineup, i think we can make the playoffs, especially in light of what the teams around us have done.

    Anaheim: have no depth, and need to shed someone from their back end. Screw you burke, they will drop, possibly out of the playoffs.

    Colorado: if Sakic retires, they are done. if he comes back they will struggle to make the playoffs with horrible goaltending.

    Calgary: Good luck in the playoffs next year. Nough said.

    Nashville: Going down quickly.

    Chicago: got better, although they have the same youth concerns we do.

    Vancouver: LOL.

    Phoenix: improved, but by how much? Could challenge for an 8th seed.

    And the last 3 of LA, Columbus and St. Louis are of no concern. I say we challenge for 5-6th seed wth our current lineup. Rose coloured glasses yes, but in light of what the other teams in the conference have done i see the sun shining for us this year.

  22. Boondock says:

    With the Sharks in some potential cap trouble, I wouldn’t mind a one year $2.6M offer sheet to Clowe, now that the Sharks have acquired Boyle. Only a 2nd would be required as compensation. I loved what Clowe brought to the Sharks in the playoffs.

    Or maybe LT’s Cheechoo dream could come true.

  23. Robert says:

    Ok Dbo,

    Now that I see the $$ involved, I feel a lot better. Heck, I would live North East Siberia for 2 years alone in a hut if I could get a salary bump like that.

  24. Dennis says:

    One last thing: where was this interview where MacT mentioned that snippet about Nilsson?

  25. tcho says:

    I’d like some more experience at Centre, the most important forward position to have it. After Horc, that’s a pretty green (not $ ;-))spot. And let’s pray Horc doesn’t get injured…

  26. budorduke says:

    Dbo I don’t understand your optimism regarding the Flames. Inside joke or something? I don’t see them moving forward from last year.

  27. Bank Shot says:

    Speaking of 4th liners….anyone else notice that UFA Shean Donovan got $0.625 million over 2 years in Ottawa – while GlenX got $1.2 million over 3 years? Very comparable players IMHO – CAL overpaid big time

    Well, Donovan hasn’t scored more then 10 in his last three seasons, and scored more then 15 once in his 12 year career.

    I’m pissed that Lowe had the perfect player for the 4th line and let him walk so that he could chase the UFA dragon.

  28. Coach pb9617 says:

    With the Sharks in some potential cap trouble, I wouldn’t mind a one year $2.6M offer sheet to Clowe, now that the Sharks have acquired Boyle.

    Potential? If the Leukowich thing is true, then they are at $54.9 with Clowe, Goc and Ehrhoff left to sign.

    Offer Clowe and Ehrhoff both $3 * 3s and see what happens :)

  29. madtown says:

    D-men aside, I think the following would have been sweet…

    Nilsson – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Penner – Gagner – Cole
    Moreau – Cogliano – Pisani
    GlenX – Brodziak – Stortini

    And once Moreau gets hurt go with…

    Nilsson – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Penner – Gagner – Cole
    Pouliot – Cogliano – Pisani
    GlenX – Brodziak – Stortini

    That 4th line really rolled over last 20 games or so…

    So, I agree…Lowe should have locked up Curtis.

    Assuming the kids are for real, these four lines give depth like never seen before in oil land.

  30. fever4flames says:

    he chose… wisely

  31. IceDragoon says:

    Good day.

    One last thing: where was this interview where MacT mentioned that snippet about Nilsson?

    Dennis: We’re in luck… It’s still up at Just a Game.
    http://www.justagame.ca/index.php

    I brought the Nilsson comment up in a couple of conversations and didn’t even get a nibble.

    L8r
    Louise

  32. Traktor says:

    Marty got destroyed last year playing tough mins so any thought of bringing him back for that role is laughable to me.

    How many times has Kevin Lowe said he wanted to emulate Buffalo? 3 scoring lines and 1 checking/engery line isn’t out of the question this year.

    Tim Sestito is basically Stortini-lite. He is the same offensively with less fighting skills that likes to agitate. Reading him listed ahead of Brule, Potulny and O’marra is mind-numbing.

    I’ve never been an O’marra fan but he is really getting underrated. He is not the type of player that needs to put up a point per in the AHL to be ready for the NHL. If he comes to camp in good shape and ready to bang he will be close. Long-term I think he is the 3rd line Peca/Kesler centre that this team needs.

    I see absolutely no reason to break up the kid line. They have chemistry that you can’t teach and the play for each other. You almost deserve to lose if you break them up before a good 20+ games.

  33. PDO says:

    Boyle to SJS?

    NOW where are we supposed to dump Souray?

  34. Traktor says:

    Ottawa?

  35. jd says:

    Whats this about MacT hearing amazing things about Schremp this summer? Is this to do with him actually sticking around in California with the team this year?

  36. Traktor says:

    The Sens have a really thin pipeline so maybe you throw in Brian Lee’s old UND defense partner, Taylor Chorney as a sweetener.

    Souray, Chorney, Reddox for Antoine?

  37. Traktor says:

    Funny how MacTavish didn’t say 1 positive word about Schremp until Katz took over.

  38. Bruce says:

    I caught a MacT interview near the end of the season where he was just raving about Nilsson and Grebeshkov. Not just “he’s great, he’s gonna be great” stuff, but the detailed kind of raving MacT does where he cites a whole bunch of reasons why he’s impressed, and they are always good reasons. I commented at the time that Lowe was probably pissed since both guys were coming up RFAs. (And like Louise, I never got a nibble.)But Lowe was apparently listening and/or agreeing with MacT given how quickly both guys got signed.

    I also happened to catch an interview on the Pipeline Show with Ryan O’Marra the other day and was pretty impressed. He talked about playing with Brule at the U-18s a few years ago; I caught a couple games of that tourney and O’Marra really struck me as a likely future NHLer. Caught my eye the same way guys like Matt Stajan and Jarret Stoll did in junior: no particulalry outstanding skill, just a solid all-around player with no obvious weaknesses either. O’Marra says his listed vitals of 6’1, 193 are way out of date, that he’s now just over 6’2 and pushing 220. He wants to report to TC at that weight and wants to play at 215. He really sounded like a kid with his head on straight, who learned a few harsh lessons this past year but still has his eyes firmly on the prize. I know, talk is cheap, but keep an eye on this kid.

    Finally, is there one documented word about Zack Stortini and his “stupid” salary demands? That’s not a word I would associate with Zack normally. So … who’s his agent?

  39. IceDragoon says:

    Funny how MacTavish didn’t say 1 positive word about Schremp until Katz took over.

    Or…

    Until Schremp put the work in…

  40. jd says:

    From the Oilers Website. I wonder who in teh org puts this up. i kinda like Penner on the third line. Not sure how that would hold up in terms of his defensive presence but….

    Cole – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Nilsson – Gagner – Cogliano
    Penner – Brodziak – Pisani
    Moreau – Pouliot – Stortini
    Polutny – Schremp – Brule

    http://oilers.nhl.com/roster/depth.htm

  41. Gord says:

    Due to injuries, the Oilers Dmen played a lot more ice time than they should have last year. Considering their age (& lack of NHL experience), they held up quite well.

    Now that we have added Visnovsky, who has tons of experience & plays lots of minutes, I suspect Peckham will be the 1st injury call-up…

    Even playing protected minutes; if only playing 14 minutes a game – our toughness & fighter is added to the line-up through Peckham…

  42. IceDragoon says:

    I commented at the time that Lowe was probably pissed since both guys were coming up RFAs.

    I remember that, Bruce.

    (And like Louise, I never got a nibble.)

    LOL – I’m used to noticing what others deem ‘inconsequential’, but I’m not above an occasional ‘ahem’. It’s all good.
    ;-D

  43. goldenchild says:

    Funny how MacTavish didn’t say 1 positive word about Schremp until Katz took over.

    What in the fuck would one have to do with the other? Is Katz a secret member of the Schremp Army on HF?
    Also i love how everybody is going crazy over the fact that the coach said the player is finally acting like a professional for the first time.

  44. Traktor says:

    Yeah, I think Katz is a fan of Schremp, and of skill in general.

    He clearly isn’t as high on “tough minute” plugs as the blogosphere as is evident from Torres and Stoll’s dismissal. (Hold up on the Mike Johnson jersey)

  45. jon k says:

    To be honest I don’t see Souray going anywhere for at least another season. Lowe likes him, MacT had favourable things to say about his defense, and he’s a veteran on an otherwise fairly green D core.

    Traktor: That’s a pretty incredible overpay for Vermette.

  46. IceDragoon says:

    He clearly isn’t as high on “tough minute” plugs as the blogosphere as is evident from Torres and Stoll’s dismissal.

    So… Katz is our new GM?!?!?

  47. Boondock says:

    I’d bet $1,000 Katz couldn’t pick Rob Schremp out of a lineup.

  48. goldenchild says:

    Yeah, I think Katz is a fan of Schremp

    HAHAHAHA you must be a high ranking member of the Army.

  49. heed says:

    it’s a known fact that katz wears a schremp jersey under his suit everyday.

  50. Boondock says:

    Katz is BBO on HFBoards???

  51. Showerhead says:

    He clearly isn’t as high on “tough minute” plugs as the blogosphere as is evident from Torres and Stoll’s dismissal.

    Because clearly, ridding Edmonton’s roster of the Matt Greene ES vacuum or adding tough minute “plug” Erik Cole didn’t just happen either.

    Oh Mr. Katz, how I tremble at your desire for all that is shiny.

  52. Knamely Lacked says:

    The Canucks just got Bernier from the Sabres for a 2nd and a 3rd.

  53. Traktor says:

    IceDragoon: Is he our new GM? Of course not.

    Typically though, do new owners put a stamp on their team? Almost always. Re: Tampa, Nashville ect

    I think your fooling yourself if you don’t think Katz told Lowe the direction he wanted the team to go in. (Less overpaid 3rd liners, more elite talent) Who’s idea was it to throw 90 million at Hossa? Katz. I’m sure most could conclude that it was the overpaid 3rd liners that would be sacrificed.

    Katz has his hands all over the Stoll and Torres deals.

    jon k: I don’t agree.

    Souray coming of season ending shoulder surgery (multiple times he’s had shoulder issue’s now) basically has zero value. I would venture to say that he might have negative value.

    Essentially it’s Chornet + Reddox for Vermette + 5 million in cap sapce.

    I think the Sens get fleeced.

    I know I will probably get ripped for saying this here, but Vermette really isn’t much worse than Horcoff.

    They both have elite speed, they both are great defensively, they both are relentless on the forecheck, both are great on the PK, both are underrated offensively.

    Vermette has scored 21, 19 and 24 goals the past 3 years, dispite not playing with the top players, unlike Horcoff.

    Vermette also only averaged 1.46 per game on the PP.

    Horcoff on the other hand was given 3.96 per game on the PP.

    Vermette was given the WORST linemates out of all Ottawa forwards (-.21) and still put up 53 points.

    Switch Horcoff and Vermette last year and Antione puts up 75 points.

    Reddox, dispite being a fan fav around these parts, has 4th round pick value at best.

  54. Boondock says:

    The Canucks just got Bernier from the Sabres for a 2nd and a 3rd.

    Wonder if Gillis threatened an offer sheet to get this deal to go through?

    Did Vancouver give up their own second for next year? If so, it means no offers sheets between $1.3M-$2.6M or $3.9M-$5.2M for them this summer.

  55. Traktor says:

    Apparently valuing things other than shot blocking and getting pucks in deep make me part of the Schremp Army.

    What I find comical is if the oilblogospere had their way Nilsson would have been traded after a couple games for Mike Johnson. Grebs probaly for 1 year of Jason Smith.

    I’m sure they would move Schremp for DVO as well.

  56. Steve says:

    What I find comical is if the oilblogospere had their way Nilsson would have been traded after a couple games for Mike Johnson.

    Traded to who?

  57. Scott says:

    Someone had mentioned a little bit earlier throwing dual offer sheets at the Sharks. This strikes me as a great idea. I think the suggestions was two deals at 3M for 3 years, but this cannot be done since they would require the same compensation. I think the smart bet is on trying to acquire Ehrhoff who’s had some success in the really tough minutes. Perhaps two sheets, one to Clowe for 2.5 at one year and assume the Sharks match and one to Ehrhoff for 3.5 at four years and hope that they don’t, taking the bigger compensation.

    They just jettisoned their first rounder, so it might even be tempting compensation for them, especially since they didn’t have a first rounder this past season. They’ve just acquired three new d-men so Ehrhoff may look more expendable and frankly, 3.5 for four for a young shut-down guy really improves the Oilers and I don’t think the deal is out of whack with the market.

    The only real problem for the Oilers is if we actually acquire both Clowe and Ehrhoff. We’d need to ditch about 2M, hopefully through Roloson.

    As for Souray, given what the Sharks just traded away for Dan Boyle, I find it very difficult to believe that Souray would have negative value. He’s better value than Boyle. I think that he’s still an Oiler because either he wants to be or the Oilers want him or, most probably, both.

  58. transplantedjetfan says:

    I’d argue that the oilers have favored skill and speed for a long time so these moves have essentially nothing to do with Katz.

    I don’t get the hate for Souray, if he stays healthy he fills a big hole on defense. Who else do you put back there? Who have the Oilers missed out on because they have all this money tied up in Souray? My money is on Souray to prove the naysayers wrong this year.

  59. Scott says:

    “Apparently valuing things other than shot blocking and getting pucks in deep make me part of the Schremp Army.”

    I think it was probably this comment that encouraged people to believe you are a part of the Schremp army:

    “Yeah, I think Katz is a fan of Schremp”

    Evidence?

  60. heed says:

    Did Vancouver give up their own second for next year?

    they gave up the kings’ pick in ’09 (2nd)and their pick in ’10 (3rd). So the rfa offer sheet idea is still in play.

    as for schremp…mact had kind words for him because he is actually making an effort to get into great shape this summer. katz did not force him to say kind words. i swear schremp is the greatest viral marketing campaign ever conceived.

  61. Scott says:

    RE: Vermette

    It would seem clear that Vermette is a useful player, but I think there is still work to do before he makes it to Horcoff’s level. Mostly, he has not yet had a season where he has outscored difficult competition, whereas Horcoff has. That said, he’s played difficult competition the last two seasons and has improved from -0.41GA/60 to -0.19GA/60. Even if he delivers something like that at even strength against the toughs, he would be very useful.

  62. Black Dog says:

    I’d like Vermette if they could get him but he’s useful and cheap so why the Sens would dump him I don’t know.

    Schremp has had issues competing and his skating is poor as is his conditioning. Nilsson can skate and yet his career was hanging by a thread until he put it together.

    Sounds like Schremp is figuring out what it means to be a pro hockey player, good for him. Maybe he will get a shot.

  63. Traktor says:

    Evidence?

    Not really?

    If I think MacTavish likes Reasoner does that mean I’m a fan of Reasoner?

    What stupid logic.

    If people want to cherry pick they can go ahead. My comment was about “skill in general”. You know, like the Detroit Red Wings.

  64. DeBakey says:

    Oh-oh. Tractor is on fire this afternoon- sticking it to the Stat-heads.

    “Katz has his hands all over the Stoll and Torres deals.”
    Listen to the season ending interviews with MacT & Lowe. MacT gives Torres the shove & Lowe says See Ya Later to Stoll.

    “Reddox, dispite being a fan fav around these parts, has 4th round pick value at best.”
    Which parts?
    If he plays 50 games for the Oilers I’ll be amazed.

  65. Traktor says:

    “but I think there is still work to do before he makes it to Horcoff’s level.”

    The only thing stoping him from Horcoff’s level is he isn’t playing besides a 1st line talent (Hemsky/Spezza) and recieving gravy PP minutes.

    I wonder what Horcoff would do if he had to play with Chris Kelly, Cody Bass, and the other slugs on the team with limited PP minutes. I’m thinking around 45 points.

  66. Scott says:

    The MacTavish-Reasoner situation is different though since there’s um… evidence… that MacTavish likes Reasoner.

    While the context of your comment certainly did involve skill in general, you specifically mentioned Schremp and didn’t specifically mention anybody else. I don’t really think that’s cherry-picking so much as listening.

    All of that said, it’s encouraging to hear MacT speak more highly of Schremp. Schremp certainly has skill, so if he can add strength and conditioning to that he could be a very useful player for the Oilers this season, especially given his relatively small cap number.

  67. IceDragoon says:

    Traktor:

    I think you’re fooling yourself if you think Katz had anything to do with trading a couple of 2nd/3rd liners.

    Katz has followed three simple steps to his success:

    1) Hire the right people.
    2) Give them the tools they need to do their jobs.
    3) Let them do their jobs.

    He is ‘hands-off’ unless his people need his help… or… they need to be replaced. He is not an armchair GM who has recently purchased a team so he can diddle around.

  68. spOILer says:

    Sounds like Boyle might be gone to SJS. No details yet, so not sure how they’d clear cap space (if it’s true).

    The T&T is reporting that the Russian Ice Hockey Federation is threatening the top 5 draftees at the 08 Draft with 4 year suspensions from the National team.

    http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/sports/article/341931

    (how do you guys get your url tags to work, btw?)

    Omsk GM says Jagr’s deal was more like $20M over 2 years, not $35M. Must be some limit on money laundering in the Motherland.

  69. Traktor says:

    Well maybe Katz just told MacTavish that saying this like “the things keeping Schremp from the NHL are not quick fixes” doesn’t exactly enhance his value around the leauge. It basically is just sending 29 NHL teams a red flag. Not the greatest asset management.

  70. Showerhead says:

    Yeah, I think Katz is a fan of Schremp, and of skill in general.

    He clearly isn’t as high on “tough minute” plugs as the blogosphere as is evident from Torres and Stoll’s dismissal. (Hold up on the Mike Johnson jersey)

    *assumes literary tact*

    Your opening sentence, written as it is, equates Schremp to skill in general and further to the players Lowe has brought in since Katz took over. When you go on to make your (bad) Detroit Red Wings joke you continue the insinuated and farcial Robbie comparison.

    When you go on to call tough minute players “plugs” and imply that Robbie, Lubo, and Cole are the skillful answers to a question the blogosphere is too “high” to comprehend… after months and perhaps years of similar ridiculous Schremp-inspired hyperbole…

    When people call you out for being a fan of Schremp, you’re not exactly being “cherry picked”. God bless the kid if he’s added some fitness and turned the corner but to lump him in with established NHL talent and then paint him as Katz’s right hand man is a wee much.

    -

    On a serious note, do you sincerely believe Katz is making Lowe’s hockey decisions all of a sudden since he took over? As LT likes to point out, the writing has been on the wall for some of the players going out for quite some time.

  71. Traktor says:

    IceDragoon, funny how Moreau said “Katz seems like he is going to have the hands on approach”

    If you want to grasp at his press conference interview, that’s up to you. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    It’s pretty clear that this team, is now going in the high priced elite talent, low priced 3rd/4th liners direction but that must be just a coincidence.

    It’s strange how we didn’t have a “grid for 3rd/4th liners pay salary” in the past. Another coincidence I’m sure.

  72. Traktor says:

    Showerhead, I left myself open and would expect nothing less around here than to be called out. That’s why I come here, even though I disagree with the majority of opinions it’s an uphill battle and I enjoy that.

    I don’t think Katz is making the hockey decisions (trade Torres for Brule) but I certainly think Katz is telling Lowe the direction he wants the team to go in (move dead weight in order to create cap space for high end players like Hosaa)

  73. IceDragoon says:

    Traktor:

    I’d like a link to that Moreau quote, if you don’t mind. I highly doubt it has anything to do with hockey ops, besides wooing elite UFAs at the request of the GM and Coach.

    Regardless, it seems that you are the one grasping and inferring your logic into every little move the Oilers make.

    Oh, and… Rick Olczyk is the guy with the grid. He was hired over a year ago… as in… pre-Katz.

  74. Traktor says:

    IceDragoon, the comment I’m referring to was live on team 1260 a little while after the Katz PC while interviewing players/coaches ect on what they thought.

    Rick Olczyk is the guy but I don’t recall hearing anything about a “grid” until the season was over and Katz essentially was the owner of the team. (I know it’s a reach :))

  75. Coach pb9617 says:

    (And like Louise, I never got a nibble.)

    Well, you have to have the wherewithal to carry through and explain it all and set up lines for everyone to see. Lines are bright shiny objects to hockey fans.

    You can’t just sit in the corner yelling “CHEEZE-ITS!” people will think you are rainman or something.

    You gotta say “Yo, I could really scarf on some cheeze-its right now, ya know?”

  76. Coach pb9617 says:

    Someone had mentioned a little bit earlier throwing dual offer sheets at the Sharks. This strikes me as a great idea.

    Excellent. Two in one day.

  77. Coach pb9617 says:

    I think the suggestions was two deals at 3M for 3 years, but this cannot be done since they would require the same compensation.

    Can’t you pull the second one if the first is accepted?

  78. Coach pb9617 says:

    i swear schremp is the greatest viral marketing campaign ever conceived.

    I was hoping upon hope that he would be traded this offseason. I used to have no opinion on him, but just from message board posters alone – I dislike the guy.

  79. Traktor says:

    Trading a 1st round pick for a defensemen when it’s already Edmonton’s position of strength is a horrible idea, Sorry.

    Sign Gator for 1 year and let Smid, Grebs and Gilbert grow. Peckham and Chorney will be knocking on the door shortly anyway.

    If you want to dish a 1st, save it for a need. We might have a need for a 4/5 physical defensemen but certainly not enough to dump a 1st.

  80. Oilman says:

    Can’t you pull the second one if the first is accepted?

    No….an offer sheet requires the player to accept and sign the offer – so you have to have the assets to compensate the other team in hand.

  81. Coach pb9617 says:

    No….an offer sheet requires the player to accept and sign the offer – so you have to have the assets to compensate the other team in hand.

    Well, send one, then the other!

  82. Oilman says:

    A team has up to 7 days to decide if it will match an offer sheet – if it choses to, it can tie up the offering teams picks for the full 7 days. You either make offers that don’t involve any of the same picks, or you make one at a time.

  83. Doogie2K says:

    Rick Olczyk is the guy but I don’t recall hearing anything about a “grid” until the season was over and Katz essentially was the owner of the team. (I know it’s a reach :))

    Yeah, it’s a reach. It never came up before because we weren’t really worried about signing fourth-liners last year, and prior to that, no Olczyk, so we play third and fourth liners over $2M a pop, and that just was not smart, especially given where the cap was then, as compared to now. This is clearly a new policy that Olczyk had brought in already, but hadn’t had a chance to exercise until this year.

  84. Scott says:

    The comments where MacT is wondering aloud about Nilsson on the top line and ‘leading scorer one day’ sound a lot like comments about a younger Hemsky.

    I trust the coach to see these things as I don’t. Did anybody really think Stortini would be a very useful (and fairly effective) NHLer? Well, besides MacT and Huddy, that is?

  85. Jonathan says:

    Less overpaid 3rd liners, more elite talent.

    Souray coming of season ending shoulder surgery (multiple times he’s had shoulder issue’s now) basically has zero value. I would venture to say that he might have negative value.

    And yet, somehow, Ethan Moreau is still an Oiler.

    Also, when it comes to returning from serious injury, look at that Boyle trade that went down this morning. Offensive blueliners are at a premium- Souray probably has some value around the league if Boyle goes for Carle, Wishart, a 1st and a 4th.

    I know I will probably get ripped for saying this here, but Vermette really isn’t much worse than Horcoff.

    Vermette was given the WORST linemates out of all Ottawa forwards (-.21) and still put up 53 points.

    What a load of crap. Not only was Vermette’s points/60 way lower than Horcoff’s, but he was outscored while playing the 6th best opposition among Ottawa forwards. He isn’t close to being the same player right now, although I won’t argue that he’s valuable. Also, Martin Lapointe had the worst linemates among Senators forwards, and McAmmong, McGratton, Foligno, Neil and Kelly were all in range with Vermette.

    What I find comical is if the oilblogospere had their way Nilsson would have been traded after a couple games for Mike Johnson. Grebs probaly for 1 year of Jason Smith.

    Nonsense. Johnson was a free agent; the rationale to signing him was to stabilize the bottom six, he was hurt this year but otherwise likely would have. As for Schremp, the argument for trading him, in my mind, is that his role is basically filled at the team level and he’s too good to rot away in the AHL. I’d much rather have Gagner, Cogs and Nilsson than Schremp, but if Cogliano/Nilsson had been dealt I’d argue strongly that Schremp should be kept. He has good value, but right now he doesn’t fill a team need- there’s nobody in the top-6 that’s reasonably within reach of him.

  86. godot10 says:

    //I wonder what Horcoff would do if he had to play with Chris Kelly, Cody Bass, and the other slugs on the team with limited PP minutes. I’m thinking around 45 points.//

    Horcoff would get more points than Spezza would.

  87. Bruce says:

    re: Nilsson, I’ve been wondering since about February why the broad assumption on the ‘sphere that he will now and forever after be a “soft minutes” kind of player. Maybe he’s Kristian Huselius and that’s where he fits. Or maybe he’s Henrik Zetterberg and it just takes him 3, 4, 5 years to develop into his full potential. I’m sure I don’t know, but I’m equally sure that Lowe and MacT have had a high opinion of the young man for awhile (as I recall, it was Nilsson’s UNavailability at #17 in 2003 that triggered the trade that became Parise for Pouliot and JFJ) and last year we saw some of the reasons why. I was delighted when he re-upped for reasonable $$$; by the third year of that contract we should have a lot better idea where his ceiling is.

  88. Coach pb9617 says:

    A team has up to 7 days to decide if it will match an offer sheet – if it choses to, it can tie up the offering teams picks for the full 7 days. You either make offers that don’t involve any of the same picks, or you make one at a time.

    That’s what I said – send one, then the other.

  89. Bruce says:

    I see absolutely no reason to break up the kid line. They have chemistry that you can’t teach and the play for each other. You almost deserve to lose if you break them up before a good 20+ games.

    I’m with Traktor on this one, at least for the first quarter of the season as he suggests. All the talk around here was about how Cogliano’s Sh% was unsustainable but I don’t think we know that yet. Fact was Cogs would have had an even higher Sh% if he had put away some gimmes in the early going, but after he got a regular turn with Gagner and Nilsson he was a handful, using his speed and driving the net with and without the puck. Gagner and Nilsson are both elite playmakers who like to get the puck to the goalmouth in a hurry, they set up Cogliano for a lot of high percentage opportunities right in close to the net, and Cogs converted his share.

    The question is whether they have the defensive jam to be effective but I’m certainly prepared to wait to find out. They were certainly outscorers down the stretch last year, largely against “soft” opp to be sure, but there’s no reason why MacT would necessarily change that formula either. With Horcoff and Cole in the mix MacT has more experienced options for tough minutes with his other scoring line. As the kids continue to gain experience of their own I expect their defensive play to improve even if their calling card will always be offence.

  90. Jonathan says:

    I’ve been wondering since about February why the broad assumption on the ‘sphere that he will now and forever after be a “soft minutes” kind of player.

    That is a very good point. I have always just been under the assumption (based on what has been printed about him) that he fits into the Huselius-type category of player. In another comment, I suggested giving Gagner solid wingers and putting him in a secondary tough minutes role, but Nilsson might be a better fit. He is older and has responded well to MacTavish. Definitely could be worth testing him out, anyway.

  91. dave says:

    Just looking at the first couple of posts here. I suggested (off topic on the JFJ post Ithink) that Nilsson could get a shot on first line LW and all you could hear was crickets in the twilight…..

  92. Bruce says:

    all you could hear was crickets in the twilight…..

    That sounds like me and Louise. :) I’m becoming a Row-bert fan, having “seen him good” a few times down the stretch last year. I certainly wouldn’t rule him out of becoming a first-liner down the road.

    HOWEVER: there’s no rush. This past year Nilsson did indeed see some time on the first line, and failed the test. He also saw some time in the PB. Moreover, he saw time on the first line in Springfield, and if I’m not mistaken he even saw time in the SF PB. That’s quite the learning curve.

    So having invested a chunk of the season developing Nilsson’s play and finding him some chemistry, I hope and expect MacT is not in any all-fired hurry to move him up the depth chart. Eventually, he might become the first line LW … but it’s entirely possible he will do so by staying on his current line.

  93. oilerdiehard says:

    Asiaoil – As for grit…Asham is still out there – and although he’s not that big – he hits anything that moves and would be cheap.

    I was thinking that might not be a bad idea. But looking at his hit totals he only had 87 hits which placed him at 187th in the league for most hits. It would have placed him as 6th most hits on our team last year behind the likes of Penner, Stortini, Glencross, Stoll and Smid.

    On a side note our new acquisition Erik Cole was 18th with 186 hits. I think we are all going to love this guy. By the way the previous season in 06/07 Cole had 222 hits. Yikes the guy is a wrecking ball.

  94. Dennis says:

    ODH: it varies from rink to rink so we don’t know if Cole’s really all over the place hitting. I like that deal — though it’s coloured by Joni’s pact with Car and the fact Cole’s got one year left — and I remember him powering to the net and being a bear on the forecheck. But, I’ve watched games at Rexall where I’m sure a guy had four hits in a period and he only gets credited with one.

    So, in reverse, maybe the guy in Car has a quick trigger finger on their hit machine.

  95. Bruce says:

    Dennis: That’s why RTSS are, like QUALCOMP, an entire branch of stats which mean more within context of team and not so much against the rest of the league. It matters not that Cole finished 18th in the league in hits but the fact he finished first on the Hurricanes almost has me jumping for joy. Oilers were deficient in this dept last year and Cole’s stats match my general impression that this guy plays for keeps.

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