Pouliot

Interesting comments coming out of the thread below. Marc Pouliot has some pretty strong supporters and some good arguments in his favor. There are two specific items I wanted to focus on from yesterday:

  • RiversQ: I’m not sure why everyone overlooks Pouliot’s contribution from two years ago. He posted even better numbers at that time, particularly defensively, over a larger sample size. I think we can stop waffling over the 24 games and realize he’s got the equivalent of a full NHL season playing with middling to poor linemates against middling opposition and his defensive numbers have been stellar.

And yet he still isn’t an NHL regular. Pouliot’s signed contract (two years, one way) means the Oilers are at the very least comfortable with him in a 4-line role and can see him filling other holes should injury and other factors require. Notice I said “at the very least” because they may also feel he’s the first option for checking line center (or whatever we’re calling it these days). My post yesterday suggests Brodziak as the most likely option and that’s still my bet, but as RQ suggests the resume is deeper than just last season’s 24 games.

  • Asiaoil: MAP seems the best bet to me as well. The kid has not developed a single outstanding skill (although he’s a pretty damn good passer) but he’s not bad at anything either and he has some size which we need. I think he can keep his head above water on the checking line if he’s pair with say Moreau and Pisani who may also benefit from his passing skills. But who knows – we all made a completely sensible case for Conkanen a few years ago and look how that turned out. It will be an interesting year and I predict at least one of our young centers will be gone at the trade deadline – probably MAP or Cogs).

I would argue that Pouliot’s passing skills (taking a pass on the fly and receiving same) are deadly and as time moves on and he gets to play with skill in the NHL this will become apparent. Remember, we’re talking about a guy who hasn’t played a tremendous amount with what we might call “established NHL players” even when he’s been in the show. It’s one of the reasons Pouliot’s EV/60 number is such a disaster although he has had periods of simply awful results (beginning of 07-08).

I’m at a point with Pouliot where it’s time to cheer like hell. He’s a favorite of mine, just like Hemsky and Stoll and Cogliano and Gagner. Of course, my favorites list also included Chris Hajt, Jani Rita, Alexei Mikhnov and JF Jacques. :-)

—-

I have a friend who brings up the Oilers’ French kids everytime we talk. He’ll say “the Oilers overlook the Q kids” and I’ll list off Ales Hemsky, Marc Bergeron, Marc Pouliot, JF Jacques, Mathieu Roy, Jeff Deslauriers, Slava Trukhno. Leaving aside the Euro kids, that’s 5 young men in a short time (and some nice high draft picks) who come from the Q and are French kids.

IS there some kind of disconnect? As a longtime fan of junior hockey I can say that my bias toward the Western Hockey League (tougher, grittier, more of a man’s game) is still largely held among the people I talk to even though there’s little evidence of that being true. There was a gap between the WHL, OHA and QMJHL many years ago because the OHA had lots of French kids playing in their league (Montreal Jr Canadiens were an OHA team) and many of the top flight players from that province would end up in the OHA.

The Q has long had the reputation of producing quality offensive talent and good goaltenders, the OHL more complete talents and the WHL is the Tiger Williams league (to put it in a complete sentence). Those lines are blurred now more than ever and I don’t really think there’s any evidence of one league being better than the other.

So, what is it? Well, part of it might be the individual player and their maturity level. On July 8 of this year, on this blog (in the thread titles Oilers sign Pouliot, Jacques) Louise posted:

  • Interesting bit of radio I just heard. Bob Stauffer said that MacTavish told Pouliot that he sees a ‘Guy Carbonneau’ in him. And apparently, our young C was not impressed. hmmm… Guess the kid still has dreams of grandeur. Certainly can’t fault him for that.

I know Bob and later asked directly and he confirmed. I agree with Louise, you can’t fault him for wanting to bat cleanup, but at this point in his career doesn’t getting in the door and becoming an established NHL player take precedent? And if this is the player’s attitude does that effect the decision making process on the part of the coach?

I’m asking because I don’t know the answer. It’s an interesting problem to have, a kid who thinks he can do more than the organization feels he’s best suited for, and we have had precedent in this organization (“Comrie isn’t a 1line center”).

I love that Pouliot isn’t happy with being a role player on a team handing out big jobs to unproven labor, but I’d also be thrilled if he could become a member of the Carbonneau family of hockey players.

What does it say about Marc Pouliot (and his future) that he apparently balked at it?

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

64 Responses to "Pouliot"

  1. Jonathan says:

    I don’t want to trash Pouliot too badly, but of all the prospects this team has (with the possible exception of Jacques), I think a case could be made that the mental/character side of the game is what’s holding him back.

    This guy was supposed to make the team out of camp two years ago. He didn’t look good to start the season, started to do some nice things in the AHL and got called up. He had a very nice finish.

    At this point, most people were thinking that Pouliot pretty much had a spot locked up, but then he was invisible or worse than that to start this season, spent most of the year in the minors after a brutal start, and looked OK at season’s end.

    He had the talent to survive at the NHL level in 2006-07. Why hasn’t he made the jump? My guess would be commitment, that probably doesn’t take offseason training too seriously, but again, that’s just my guess.

    I know you’ve referenced Gare Joyce’s book before; I did up a thing on Sonier’s little evaluation tool the other day, and for Pouliot it’s probably 3 for talent, 2 for hockey sense, and 1 for character.

  2. Ribs says:

    I love the fact that Poo thinks he can be an offensive force in the NHL. He probably has a ways to go but I think he can do it too. He’s one of those players who you can tell is going to try to score every time he touches the puck and it’s something that not all players posess.

    He seems like a guy that maybe has some growing up to do and that will come with time. MacT will certainly round out his game and make him a better player overall. On the ice and off.

    Things are looking up for the young man right now. I hope he doesn’t blow it!

  3. Schitzo says:

    jonathan – I absolutely agree that there may be some commitment issues. To this day, I don’t understand how Pouliot can come to camp and half-ass it in 07/08, knowing Nilsson, Cogliano, Gagner, Schremp and Brodziak were all gunning for “his spot”.

    I mean, christ, if there was ever a time to come to camp with something to prove, it was last year.
    I wonder if he realizes how fortunate he is that this org decided to give him a second shot instead of moving him and resigning marty reasoner.

  4. Schitzo says:

    Oh, and I meant to add – I’m not sure if his dismal 07/08 camp was a lack of commitment, or a sense of entitlement, or he’s just plain dumb as a stump and didn’t realize how much danger his spot was in.

  5. MikeP says:

    schitzo: You left off another option: he just plain didn’t do well. Everybody goes through streaks where they don’t do things as well as they ought. Maybe he did. Commitment? He could have given up after he separated his shoulder, but he didn’t. He could have given up when he was on the worst team in the Q with no support, but he didn’t. Raise your hands, everybody who does his or her best every. single. day. of their careers. Don’t give me guff about how they’re highly paid and therefore shouldn’t have off-days; the man’s in his early 20s, for one, and for another, he’s human. He did poorly for a few weeks, and that was enough to send him back to the minors. I’m sure glad *my* bosses don’t do that.

    LT: yes, the Oilers don’t dip as deep into the Q as they could. Neither does anybody else, or at least they hadn’t been last time I really looked at it, which was (granted) three years ago now. One thing I didn’t take into account was total league size; I don’t know how many players are regulars in each league, but from what I recall of the last few drafts, the numbers weren’t horribly different.

  6. Black Dog says:

    Weird thing about Pouliot is one of the big pluses about him was his performance for a dreadful club in junior. Never took a night off, etc etc.

    So character is an issue??

    I think he is a better fit for the Pisani pivot spot, myself; I saw the Toronto Penalty Shot game, as Dennis calls it; he played with Torres and Thoresen and had a terrific game that night. On at the end with the big boys as they tried to equalize. Looked like the sky is the limit.

    If he’s smart he will realize that he has to start somewhere and if your coach is saying Guy Carbonneau, you watch films of Guy Carbonneau and try your best to be him. Doug Gilmour started in that role, after all.

  7. RiversQ says:

    I know Bob and later asked directly and he confirmed.

    Thanks for clarifying this LT. I asked about it in the other thread.

    I’m still wondering about this a little bit. So Bob was sitting around the campfire with Pouliot and MacT and heard this? How did he actually get this information is what I was wondering about. It’s still screaming for context even though Stauffer seems willing to back it up.

    Anyway, as you said this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    Carbonneau was a very good player, but he was a 45-55 point player back in the early to mid 80′s. What is that today? 30-40 points? It’s not that much of a stretch to think Pouliot is capable of playing decent minutes and doing better than that. Heck, he probably still thinks he can play on the PP, and I haven’t seen much evidence to suggest he doesn’t deserve a crack at that either.

    I’m still skeptical about this news item because I think it’s a little lost in translation and I don’t think it matters anyway.

  8. RiversQ says:

    Just to clarify – I was talking strictly about offense there. Without taking a closer look at Carbonneau, I wouldn’t want to comment on overall contribution.

    I remember watching him as a Hab and of course in a slightly diminished role as a Star. But it’s fuzzy and my guard is instantly up on multiple Selke winners playing on teams with good goaltending and defense and other good defensive forwards.

    (Aside: Carbonneau was breaking into a much better team,, but he didn’t crack it until 22. Pouliot is now 23.)

  9. doritogrande says:

    “I have a friend who brings up the Oilers’ French kids everytime we talk. He’ll say “the Oilers overlook the Q kids” and I’ll list off Ales Hemsky, Marc Bergeron, Marc Pouliot, JF Jacques, Mathieu Roy, Jeff Deslauriers, Slava Trukhno. Leaving aside the Euro kids, that’s 5 young men in a short time (and some nice high draft picks) who come from the Q and are French kids. “

    You missed our newbie from the Q. Cornet is it?

    Guys like Pouliot (and to the same extent, Rob Schremp), are the reason teams have farm systems. It takes kids who aren’t superstars longer to “get it” or overcome injuries, or find Jesus, or realize there’s a defensive zone…I could continue. Usually the light has to click on in the minors and Pouliot’s is now shining like a 100-Watt fluorescent one. Not everyone can develop like Sam Gagner.

  10. Muller says:

    I’d be surprised if Pouliot was playing opening night. I feel he doesn’t have a stong enough quality about any part of his game that’ll keep around for the long haul.

  11. Vic Ferrari says:

    rivers:

    Off topic I know, but on Carbonneau and ‘your guard being up’.

    A little while ago I took MC79′s methodology for tough minutes (I used events against the top 40 scoring forwards in the league, crudely and simply) and ran them for 99-00. That was the year that Yzerman won the Selke.

    To my surprise, it turns out that Yzerman did play the toughest minutes on the Wings that year, though they spread around the pain between Fedorov and Larionov quite a bit.

    Marchant played some very tough home ice minutes by this metric, but it was Weight who seemed to end up out there against good players on the road. Which makes sense. The 3rd and esp 4th Oiler lines didn’t see much of any star players.

    And down in Dallas Modano was just off the hook. On home ice Hitchcock had him out there for 2/3rds of the events against these high scorers, and on the road still over half. Carbonneau was so many miles behind, especially on home ice, that even after prorating for the fact he only played half of the season … there is just no way in hell that Carbo was squaring off against the other team’s best very often.

    .

    Now I’ll let you get back to Pouliot. I’ll show myself out. :)

  12. toqueboy says:

    re last year: i think we underestimate the difficulty in changing from centre to left wing in the most challenging league in the world. to me, it’s alittle like getting to the golf course and realizing all your clubs are there, but you have to use your friends left handed putter. i’m sure there are other factors, such as gripping your stick tight when you see gagne get 5 points in his first scrimmage.

    at this point we’re considering pouliot for 4th line and given all the debate, the one things i’m happy about is that he’s been groomed “properly”…in that sense, when we felt he wasn’t ready last year, so we shipped him out for development. pouliot coming up and getting solid 4th line minutes, to me wreaks of detroit development — have your solid prospects develop and then sign them at very reasonable second contracts and watch them out perform because you’ve given them a base.

    i don’t think there’s a person here who doubts that pouliot is now ready for the NHL…i’m not a big poo fan and he impressed me in the last stint last year…i think right now, it’s just a matter of seeing what his ceiling is.

    right now it looks like he’s being groomed for reasoner+, but his skill level could turn him into a Horcoff-. i’m okay with this.

    watching him come up slowly and RS…i’ll absolutely love our management if we can develop a proper minor league program where we’re developing real pros, not “prospects”

  13. hockeyaddict101 says:

    I just can’t get excited about Pouliot.

    Yes he has talent but he hasn’t displayed it at the NHL level.

    He isn’t physical at all and certainly doesn’t fight to be in the position to use the skills.

    He has a very good shot but like Schremp he isn’t strong enough to get himself into the areas to use it.

    He hasn’t scared NHL’ers off of him to use his playmaking abilities either.

    I haven’t seen him to do anything at the NHL level to show he is a top two line player.

    Being a third or fourth liner is not a glamour role and it certainly is a lot of hard work, until he realizes that he isn’t that first or second line player, he will go nowhere fast.

    His character was questioned even back in his draft year. I still have the Redline reports from 2003 and his work ethic and commitment were questioned.

    I am not confident he will ever be an Oiler or even an NHL’er at this point and the fact that he doesn’t think he should be a third or fourth line player is not a good sign.

  14. rickibear says:

    “MacTavish told Pouliot that he sees a ‘Guy Carbonneau’ in him.”

    Guy Carbonneau 18YR NHL Career
    Regular Season
    1318GM 260G 403A 663PT 820PIM
    Playoffs
    231GM 38G 55A 93PT 161PIM

    Craig MacTavish 18Yr NHL Career
    Reagular Season
    1093GM 213G 267A 480PT 891PIM
    Playoffs
    193GM 20G 38A 218PIM

    Translation “I think tou can play along time just like me.”

    Marc turns to MacT, ” Eww I don’t want to be that.

    Nice move Marc.

    We all see what the oilers organization sees. A guy with better than average skill in all areas but not stand out in any. The perfect person for the MacT (Guy Carbonneau) role.

    He better be smart and adopt that role with the collection of young prospects (Nash, Omark, and Brule)coming up.

    Cole-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner-Brodziak-Gagner
    Nillson-Cogliano-Pisani
    Moreau-Pouliot-Storitini

    Take the minutes you get maybe you get PK time and snipits of PP.

    If he gets beat out in camp by other bodies, his cheap two year contract will make him easy to move.

  15. hockeyaddict101 says:

    Rickibear comments:

    We all see what the oilers organization sees. A guy with better than average skill in all areas but not stand out in any. The perfect person for the MacT (Guy Carbonneau) role.

    ——-

    You hit the nail on the head with that comment, but will he realize it and adapt?

    That is the million dollar question?

  16. Jonathan says:

    Commitment? He could have given up after he separated his shoulder, but he didn’t. He could have given up when he was on the worst team in the Q with no support, but he didn’t. Raise your hands, everybody who does his or her best every. single. day. of their careers. Don’t give me guff about how they’re highly paid and therefore shouldn’t have off-days; the man’s in his early 20s, for one, and for another, he’s human. He did poorly for a few weeks, and that was enough to send him back to the minors. I’m sure glad *my* bosses don’t do that.

    My point was that he always seems to do well to end the season, and very rarely at the start of the year; i.e he probably isn’t as committed to his off-ice training as he should be.

    I wasn’t questioning his commitment on-ice, although it’s worth noting that scouting reports on him back in ’03 (hockeyaddict101 just mentioned it as well) called him “hot-headed” and “easily thrown off his game”, so it could be that he’s had some mental roadblock to beat on-ice as well.

    If I’m Marc Pouliot, and hear about how Rob Schremp has been down in California for three months, and I see the seasons all the other guys had last year, hear about Potulny and Gilbert being acquired and look at guys like Laim Reddox breathing down my neck, I’m throwing myself into off-season training. Now, maybe he is and maybe he isn’t, and I’m not going to get dogmatic about the character of someone I don’t know, but it’s certainly possible that his lack of on-ice commitment is what’s holding him back right now.

  17. Schitzo says:

    mikep:

    Raise your hands, everybody who does his or her best every. single. day. of their careers. Don’t give me guff about how they’re highly paid and therefore shouldn’t have off-days; the man’s in his early 20s, for one, and for another, he’s human

    This isn’t about doing your very best every single day. This is about busting your ass for 3 weeks because you’re under a microscope and you’re playing for your job.

    If you want to compare that to us regular joes with desk jobs, fine. If Pouliot had a desk job, he fucked up the big project he was assigned and screwed the pooch during his yearly evaluation. I don’t care how good you were during the other 48 weeks of the year, you’d be lucky if the boss didn’t throw you out on your ass.

    Maybe Pouliot’s biggest problem is he has trouble under pressure when the competition is tough. If that’s the case, he’s never going to be an NHL player, because to be successful he HAS to show up every night. Bottom 6 guys who take nights off end up like Mike York eventually.

  18. PDO says:

    Lets just remind ourselves of something here:

    Pouliot just turned 23. Are there possible immaturity issues there?

    Well yeah. He’s 23!

    Brodziak (among others… I have a great Staios story) was at the Red Bull sponsored Century Grill pre-party for the Grand Prix. Basically everyone there but the Red Bull girls and their dates was a millionaire or an Oiler player. This includes Mr. Brodziak (note to the Schremp army: he was there too!). He got stupid drunk. To the point that he kept trying to get onto the patio after it was closed and couldn’t understand why he wasn’t allowed to go onto the patio.

    This, in my mind, is about as relevant as Pouliot being upset at the idea of being a career grinder. Yeah, the organization would probaly like a little more maturity shown on either end… but they’re still kids.

    I like Pouliot a lot moving forward. He’s big, he’ll get his nose dirty, he has soft hands and he knows where to be on the ice. Is he Horcoff 2.0 as many of us have hoped? Probably not. But he sitll strikes me as a guy who can can score in the 15 range and finish with 50 points while playing somebodies, and guys like that don’t grow on trees.

  19. speeds says:

    I’m a bigger believer in Pouliot’s upside than most, and think it wouldn’t hurt to check him out with offensive linemates for a couple of games in camp before moving him down the lineup.

    There are tons of combinations I’m sure MacT will try, but one I haven’t seen that I’d be interested in enough to look at would be something like:

    Cole Horcoff Pisani
    Penner Pouliot Hemsky
    Nilsson Gagner Cogliano
    Moreau Brodziak Stortini

  20. HBomb says:

    I’m a bigger believer in Pouliot’s upside than most, and think it wouldn’t hurt to check him out with offensive linemates for a couple of games in camp before moving him down the lineup.

    There are tons of combinations I’m sure MacT will try, but one I haven’t seen that I’d be interested in enough to look at would be something like:

    Cole Horcoff Pisani
    Penner Pouliot Hemsky
    Nilsson Gagner Cogliano
    Moreau Brodziak Stortini

    Great minds think alike speeds. I was going to post the exact same lineup, with one difference, that being Hemsky and Pisani being flipped.

    Give Pouliot two finishers in Penner and Pisani and give them the 2nd toughest assignments. Heavy PK time for Moreau/Brodziak, and the Cole/Horcoff/Hemsky trio in power vs. power.

    Schremp as the 13th forward to “push” the Nilsson/Gagner/Cogliano trio (any of them needs a night off, Hockey Jesus slides into their spot on the top line, positions adjusted accordingly, which works since Gagner can play C/RW, Cogliano C/LW, Nilsson either wing, and Schremp any forward position).

    Your proposal is interesting though – frig would Cole/Horcoff/Pisani be a simply awesome power vs. power trio. But if they’re going to do that, I’d almost rather see Penner and Hemsky flanking Gagner, a Cogliano/Schremp/Nilsson trio facing the super-soft, and then a Moreau/Brodziak/Pouliot “checking” line.

  21. hockeyaddict101 says:

    I love potential as much as anyone but it really just means “you haven’t done anything yet”

    I have seen that potential translate to anything at the NHL level.

    He is just 23 but he needs to start showing me something at the NHL level before I am convinced his potential is going to be realized.

    Perhaps this is the year he starts turning that potential into an NHL career.

    But so far I really haven’t even seen a player that can consistently play on the fourth line never mind a kid that will make a living on the third line.

    That being said he did show some nice play down the stretch and perhaps that translates into the confidence he needs to take that next step.

    I am not as confident as some of you that he is going to make it but am not going to write him off yet either.

    I just want to see something that convinces me that he can get over the hump and contribute at the NHL level.

  22. mc79hockey says:

    I saw the Toronto Penalty Shot game, as Dennis calls it

    I think that that’s second only to the Isbister HNIC Game as far as games that obsessive Oilers fans recall in which a single unheralded player was dominant.

  23. PDO says:

    I think that that’s second only to the Isbister HNIC Game as far as games that obsessive Oilers fans recall in which a single unheralded player was dominant.

    That was the Gordie trick against the Stars?

    I’m pretty sure he had another game like that against Calgary, and a pretty good one against Vancouver as well, but I could be crazy.

  24. Jonathan says:

    I think that that’s second only to the Isbister HNIC Game as far as games that obsessive Oilers fans recall in which a single unheralded player was dominant.

    Let’s keep them sample sizes small.

    But so far I really haven’t even seen a player that can consistently play on the fourth line never mind a kid that will make a living on the third line.

    That’s the thing with Pouliot – if he shows up in the form he did at the end of 2006-07, I think he can do it. But he’s never been in that form consistently, and until he can make turn those flashes into long stretches, he won’t be a lock on the roster.

  25. Bruce says:

    I’d almost rather see Penner and Hemsky flanking Gagner, a Cogliano/Schremp/Nilsson trio facing the super-soft, and then a Moreau/Brodziak/Pouliot “checking” line.

    Yeah, who needs Horcoff anyway?

    As for Pouliot and small sample sizes, last year basically divides into two ever smaller samples, as different as chalk and cheese:

    October 9 GP, 0-0-0, -7
    March 15 GP, 1-6-7, +6

    Now if only he would show up in October thinking it’s March. If he hasn’t learned that lesson by now …

  26. Bank Shot says:

    I just can’t get excited about Pouliot. I’ve tried, but the guy just seems to be lacking in too many areas to successfully carve out an essential niche in a role oriented NHL. A useful role perhaps, but that lands you in Reasoner territory.

    Yea, Marc is well rounded, but with the exception of his passing I’d say that his other skills are NHL average to below average. Average skater, average stickhandling, average shot, average effort, etc.

    The fact that Mactavish has been reluctant about using MP on the PK is a bit disconcerting. Mact has had no qualms about playing other inexperienced guys like Thoresen, and Brodziak 4 on 5, but not Pouliot.

    With Pouliot’s revulsion at being compared to a famous hockey player, one wonders if perhaps he isn’t as ready to sacrifice himself as much as a guy like “Testicles” Thoresen.

    I’d say he’s lucky that there aren’t any more grade A prospects knocking on the door this season, or he might be finished in the Oilers org.

  27. Jonathan says:

    Now if only he would show up in October thinking it’s March. If he hasn’t learned that lesson by now …

    I wonder if Brian Savage does mentoring…

  28. Doogie2K says:

    @Vic: I know you already realize this, but I don’t know that MacTavish was really talking about 1999 Carbonneau, so much as 1989 Carbonneau. Come to think of it, didn’t Dallas have a bunch of ’86 and ’93 Habs on an old-goat line that year? (Carbonneau, Keane, and…Ludwig? Is that right?)

    I think that that’s second only to the Isbister HNIC Game as far as games that obsessive Oilers fans recall in which a single unheralded player was dominant.

    Where does LeGG’s hat trick fall on this continuum, I wonder?

    Yeah, who needs Horcoff anyway?

    He was on the PVP line with Cole/Pisani. :|

  29. PunjabiOil says:

    Pouliot is an interesting guy. He’s always been one of my favourite prospects, but he does end up leaving you with hopes for more.

    He’s posted OK numbers in the AHL – close to a PPG in years 2 and 3. However, at that point you have to wonder what is he doing there anyways, while the Richards, Gezlaf’s, Parise’s, and Burns’s are impact players at the NHL level.

    He put up solid numbers down the stretch, but really got a few ”gimme” assists. I think he can develop his games to become a Reasoner type with solid defensive awareness, but I’m not convinced he will be able to score goals at the NHL level (i.e. More than 10). His shot is very, very average. I think that will prevent him from becoming a top 6 forward, as was initially hoped by Lowe and co.

    That said, there are reasons to be encouraged. He’s said all the right things on his demotion to the minors in 2007-2008. On surface, he appears to have learned from his mistakes.

    Lets see if he walks the walk this year.

  30. Dennis says:

    78 marches to the beat of his own drummer to be sure; he doesn’t believe in Camp Mendelabum and he doesn’t know or fails to accept a Carbonneau compliment when he sees one.

    Just because of his low GA/60, I think he should get the third line job.

  31. Vic Ferrari says:

    The future at the centre position looks promising for the Oilers, but what happens if Horcoff blows out his knee in training camp?

    There would be an ugly ripple going to be going back through the lineup methinks. I’d rather not even think about who would be carrying the mail. Hell I’d really rather not think about it even with Horcoff healthy.

    I really like Lowe’s summer so far, and I know that this team will be better in 09/10 and 10/11 than this coming year, but damn … they might just be asking a bit more from some of these young centres and D than they have the game to handle right now.

    Personally, I’d feel really optimistic about this team for this season if they could sign Stu Barnes or similar, and trade for Hal Gill or similar. I’d just like to see them shore up even more for a stronger current season, so as to be seen as a legitimate future contender next summer. But I won’t bother wasting my wishes, because Kevin Lowe likes to ‘wait and see’, and I think that’s what he’ll do again.

    Still, a lot of positives for the Oilers now, starting with ownership and trickling down through.

  32. Jonathan says:

    Personally, I’d feel really optimistic about this team for this season if they could sign Stu Barnes or similar, and trade for Hal Gill or similar. I’d just like to see them shore up even more for a stronger current season, so as to be seen as a legitimate future contender next summer. But I won’t bother wasting my wishes, because Kevin Lowe likes to ‘wait and see’, and I think that’s what he’ll do again.

    I agree, but I suppose the flip side is that we’re going to get another really good look at what the young guys can handle.

    I’m still trying to decide if that’s a good thing or not.

  33. Bruce says:

    //Yeah, who needs Horcoff anyway?//

    He was on the PVP line with Cole/Pisani. :|

    My bad, got it on the re-read. Thanks, D2K, and sorry, HBomb. Sometimes these projected rosters make my head spin. I really meant to say, “Who needs Stortini, anyway?” :-D

    we’re going to get another really good look at what the young guys can handle. I’m still trying to decide if that’s a good thing or not.

    Jonathan: It’s a good thing. Some nights it just ain’t going to seem like it, is all. There were more than a few rookie brain cramps that cost Oilers in the standings last year, and no doubt there will be more. OTOH, hearkening back to the night Sanderson posted a -3 in 1:25 TOI in a critical game against the Preds, is a reminder that borderline vets ain’t necessarily the answer either. At least the youngsters will grow from their mistakes.

  34. offensivhockey says:

    Please visit my blog http://offensivhockey.blogspot.com/
    Why?

    For it is a blog where everyone can understand regardless of language.
    See yourself. The blog is for all.

    You also have a very good blog.

  35. Mike says:

    Wow – until you mentioned him, Bruce – I had completely forgotten that Geoff Sanderson was an Oiler last year.

    No sarcasm – I literally had forgotten all about him.

  36. Slipper says:

    Geoff who?

  37. Bruce says:

    Career Goals, 2007-08 Oilers
    ————————————
    Geoff Sanderson 355
    Ethan Moreau 122
    Shawn Horcoff 103
    Ales Hesmky 70
    Fernando Pisani 69
    Sheldon Souray 69
    Raffi Torres 67
    Marty Reasoner 64
    Jarret Stoll 59
    Dustin Penner 56
    Steve Staios 50
    Dick Tarnstrom 35
    Joni Pitkanen 33
    Andrew Cogliano 18
    Robert Nilsson 17
    Curtis Glencross 16
    Kyle Brodziak 15
    Tom Gilbert 14
    Sam Gagner 13
    Marc Pouliot 6
    Patrick Thoresen 6
    Zack Stortini 4
    Denis Grebeshkov 3
    Ladislav Smid 3
    Mathieu Roy 2
    Matt Greene 1
    Allan Rourke 1
    Rob Schremp 0
    Bryan Young 0
    Liam Reddox 0
    Theo Peckham 0
    J.F.Jacques 0

    Totals include the 220 goals scored by the Oilers in 2007-08, 217 of which were not scored by Sanderson, who did indeed have a forgettable season in the copper and blue. As the one experienced scorer in the lineup, he didn’t.

  38. Black Dog says:

    Maybe Pouliot thought he said “Guy Cabalerro”

  39. oilerdiehard says:

    I’m not sure what it says about MAP.

    But the funny thing is that is apparently the exact same thing that happened with O’Marra last season. They wanted him to be a 3rd line defensive shut down center. He was apparently upset because he thought he could be a top 6 guy.

    It took a while (after a little sulking and injury hang over) but O’Marra has now embraced this role. I suspect Pouliot will do the same and both will be in the good graces.

    Though MAP has decide if he wants to come into the season prepared or not. MacT comments about hoping he shows up to camp in at least average shape tells a lot. His performance the last 4 camps now have to be a little frustrating to the organization. He always has a great second half but you can not keep that up forever and play in the NHL every day.

    If Pouliot or as you called him in the past mystery meat shows up in good shape and embraces his role. Then I think we will have a darn good player and a happy coach on our hands.

  40. kamus says:

    Seems like the kid with the bad attitude is saying and doing all the right things, and the high character kid is finding ways to screw up.
    If Pouliot thinks he can play himself into shape at camp again, he’s just not very smart.

  41. rickibear says:

    “I literally had forgotten all about him.”

    Funny! I am the same way with my Ex wife until she misses her monthly child support payment.

  42. Master Lok says:

    Seems like the kid with the bad attitude is saying and doing all the right things, and the high character kid is finding ways to screw up.
    If Pouliot thinks he can play himself into shape at camp again, he’s just not very smart.

    Could it be that the tough love shown to Schremp, and Nilsson has sunken in – and that Poo still needs more tough love?

  43. kamus says:

    master lok:
    Mact throws the kid a compliment comparing him to player that played 1300 NHL games and won 3 cups(one as captain) and the kid scoffs at it? Who does Poo think he is? I think he’s a guy that crapped the bed in 4 camps.
    Time to pull his head out of you know what.

  44. Bank Shot says:

    I sometimes wonder if the lack of a farm team is responsible for some of the development bumps for Jacques and Pouliot.

    The Oilers have been trying to hammer these two guys into the lineup since their AHL rookie seasons, without regard to their progress or lack thereof.

    Perhaps having some AHL vets around to take the injury call ups would have allowed Jacques and Pouliot to play big minutes in a situation where they could excel.

    Leaving Brodziak and Nilsson to stew in the minors for essentially all of 06-07 may have contributed to their emergence this season.

  45. oilerdiehard says:

    I sometimes wonder if the lack of a farm team is responsible for some of the development bumps for Jacques and Pouliot.

    Well I followed reasonably close both seasons with a split (especially WBS). JFJ and MAP were definitely not IMO the Oil prospects that suffered from the split affiliation. In both Hamilton and WBS they played prominent roles most of the time and got lots of ice.

    On a side note I was very pleased with WBS and coach Richards with how he handled the Oil prospects.

    He seemed to really give them an even shake with the Penguins kids. Which is something I did not expect and something WBS did not have to do. Even when they had guys like Erik Christensen, Tyler Kennedy, Daniel Carcillo, Jonathan Filewich, Micki Dupont, Noah Welch etc… MAP, Schremp, JFJ, Brodziak and Gilbert all got some good decent PP & ES time in.

  46. Dennis says:

    In the ’07 camp, the Moreau-Reasoner-Brodziak line had tongues and scribes wagging alike and I think they had a really impressive opening game vs the Panthers, right?

    Why not keep 18-51 together and put 46 on their starboard side and then keep the 78-46 chem and just add 26 or 27 to that second tough line mix?

    Granted, I’m more of a 78 fan than 51 but outside of that awful start to the ’08 season, goals have been hard to come by against the Oil when he’s on the ice.

    Is that a coincidence?

  47. PDO says:

    Dennis, I don’t know if even Bruce would want two 46′s on the team ;)

  48. doritogrande says:

    I’m thinking that second sasquatch should be a 34 instead. Am I right Dennis?

  49. Dennis says:

    Yeah, that should be Pisani:)

    Didn’t mean to get Bruce too excited!!;)

  50. Bryanbryoil says:

    Pouliot is a notoriously slow starter, and because of that he has shot himself in the foot 3 training camps in a row now. He made the team last year but was obviously the teams worst forward at the start of the year and was then sent down for a lengthy stretch. IMO his passing ability is overrated, while his shot is underrated. I see him at his best on a cycling line with skill. If he were to be lucky enough to get to center a line of Penner and Pisani, IMO he’d be in his element and could be rather productive. I still don’t see top 6 potential in Pouliot yet, but he could be a very solid 3rd line center.

  51. Bryanbryoil says:

    BTW-what I don’t understand is why people pencil him in over Brodziak on our teams checking line? Brodziak is a year older, was a faaar superior pker in the AHL at the same age, and just seems to be a better defensive player. Pouliot has never shown the ability to be a shutdown center at the AHL level and seemed to just keep his head above water at ES in the AHL.

    I looked up Schremp’s stats last year and determined that if you subtracted EN goals and SH goals against that he was a +3 at ES. I don’t think that Pouliot’s numbers would be much better (if any) as he had a few SH points and EN points. For all of the flack that Schremp gets for being a piss poor defensive player, their ES GF/GA is probably in the same ballpark.

  52. dave says:

    It’s a huge mistake to roll your eyes at the coach. Do your talking on the ice. Mac T loves to reward hard work with PP time.

    It is either a lack of respect or intelligence or both. And we have had discussion towards the oil selecting for intelligence.

    Down the stretch he impressed based on not making mistakes, as apposed holy he’s got talent. If he is in the press box opening night he is done…..and….. book it!

  53. Bryanbryoil says:

    Interestingly enough, I looked up Pouliot’s +/- in terms of EN GF/GA and SH GF/GA and they cancelled eachother out, leaving him at -11 at traditional ES in the AHL last year.

    On for 4 SH GF
    On for 2 EN GF
    On for 4 SH GA
    On for 2 EN GA

  54. Paper Designer says:

    Guys, let’s not forget that Pouliot’s Carboneau is different from MacTavish’s. Pouliot is around my age, and you know what I remember most about Carboneau? The story about his teammate Morrow dating his daughter. Pouliot would not necessarily know that Carboneau was ever an offensive player.

  55. RiversQ says:

    Paper Designer said…
    Guys, let’s not forget that Pouliot’s Carboneau is different from MacTavish’s.

    True, this is another decent point. Plus Carbonneau’s game is probably not regaled in song in Quebec either. Just guessing.

    Pouliot would not necessarily know that Carboneau was ever an offensive player.

    He wasn’t ever an offensive player.

    At least not relative to the league in which he was playing.

  56. RiversQ says:

    Lots of interesting comments here.

    I saw “revulsion” as a term to describe Pouliot’s reaction, which is just fucking laughable.

    This hearsay shit, just snowballs doesn’t it?

    Like I said before I’d love to see the real “chain of evidence” here.

  57. dave says:

    let’s see…what would Marty Reasoner say…..

  58. Slipper says:

    Yeah, all the hearsay just reeks of fan forum.

    I don’t think it’s safe to wear my banana hammock around here anymore.

    BTW Bruce, I think Sanderson should sleep well at night knowing he’s the highest scoring NHL’er to ever be born in territorial Canada. It may be a technicality, but it’s still something to hang his hat on. He may have had a better season on a team that could consistently fit him somewhere soft, but with all the kids MacTavish needed to find a spot for, Geoff’s goose was cooked.

  59. Bruce says:

    Slipper: Yeah, Sanderson was a closet favourite of mine his whole career for that reason. Six 30-goal seasons is no mean feat in the Dead Puck Era. I was happy to see him wind it down — one presumes — with the home-town team, even if he fell one order of magnitude shy of another 30-goal campaign.

    Scuttlebutt was he was mentoring Cogliano, just the kind of guy who could use some pointers about how to turn speed and scoring chances into actual goals. Not enough of those pointers were by example, unfortunately.

  60. Doogie2K says:

    True, this is another decent point. Plus Carbonneau’s game is probably not regaled in song in Quebec either. Just guessing.

    The Q’s version of the Selke is named for him. It may not be regaled in song, a la Lafleur and Richard, but there’s no mistaking what it was. For someone who once racked up points playing with The Crosby, I can see why that sort of comparison might rankle a little.

  61. Lowetide says:

    doogie: I’d think though there would be some urgency to Pouliot’s actually having an NHL career. Looking at the roster now he’s going to share the next several years (should he make it) with Horcoff, Penner, Hemsky, Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson and possibly Schremp, Nash and Eberle who may turn into better pro players.

    Getting and keeping any kind of job should be the priority. And I’m sure it is.

    As for those asking for context re: Pouliot’s balking at Carbonneau comp, I won’t be talking to Bob for a couple of weeks but will ask him when I see him.

  62. Dennis says:

    Somebody thought highly enough of 78 that they gave him a two year one-way deal; or maybe it’s just that they don’t want to lose him and think he’s worth one more shot.

    He needs to have a good camp but I think he was well underway to getting his legs under him last year. I watched him like a hawk down the stretch and he was playing some fine hockey.

  63. IceDragoon says:

    Good day.

    My goodness, RiversQ, that’s quite the trip you took to get back to your preconceived opinion.

    From;

    I think it’s bullshit.

    thru this disjointed dance;

    Thanks for clarifying this LT. I asked about it in the other thread.

    I’m still wondering about this a little bit. So Bob was sitting around the campfire with Pouliot and MacT and heard this? How did he actually get this information is what I was wondering about. It’s still screaming for context even though Stauffer seems willing to back it up.

    Anyway, as you said this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    right back to;

    This hearsay shit, just snowballs doesn’t it?

    Like I said before I’d love to see the real “chain of evidence” here.

    You know, Riv, calling bull**** is one of your fortes, and usually, you know what-the-hell you’re talking about. You have many sound weapons in your arsenal, but an affinity for intangibles is not among them. So…

    What-the-hell? Are you bored? Do you have to be right even when you’re wrong? You feel the need to belittle someone? Whatever it is, from my vantage point it just looks like you’re pissing in the wind.

    The “real chain of evidence” was presented by Bob Stauffer on his radio show the day that Pouliot was signed. He knows that Oilers higher-ups listen, so it’s highly unlikely that he’d make this **** up.

    I wasn’t listening closely, so I called the show for clarification. The producer was busy with sports updates and commercials, and Bob answered the phone.

    I said I wasn’t sure if I heard correctly and asked him which centre MacT compared Pouliot to. Bob said, “Guy Carbonneau”. I asked, “And Pouliot was not impressed with the comparison?” Bob said, “You could definitely say that, yes.”

    So, I did, in the thread that Lain mentioned. Lain then later confirmed this info. So, if you think Bob is lying to all his listeners, then I suggest you take it up with him.
    780-426-8326 (3-6pm, mon-fri)
    totalsports@cfrn.com.

    As to “screaming for context” and “campfires”…
    It doesn’t take a PHD to reason that the last time MacTavish had the inclination to tell Pouliot what/who he sees in him was at his *exit meeting. *a time when management and coaches tell players what they see in them and expect from them the following year.

    Typically, the GM and head coach (sometimes one or two assistants) are present during exit meetings. I suggest that the info Bob shared would have had to come from Lowe or MacTavish for him to feel confident in revealing it on his show. He just might tell you if you contact him.

    To anyone interested in what someone who’s been studying intangibles for 50 years has to say on Pouliot’s perceived ‘attitude’…

    I like it. To me it says that he wants more from himself. But then, I like Pouliot. Tho, if I didn’t like him I’m sure I could twist out a negative or two.
    ;-p

    Lowe and MacTavish apparently didn’t have a problem with Pouliot’s response to the comparison, as Dennis said, he’s since been signed to a two-year, one-way, contract extension.

    L8r
    Louise

  64. Bank Shot says:

    “I saw “revulsion” as a term to describe Pouliot’s reaction, which is just fucking laughable.”

    Never any mention on the lack of PK time for Pouliot. You see that as a positvie sign?

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca