EV Points Per 60 (5×5)

I always call him Ethan rifles because of that old Jam song (does anyone remember the Jam?) but this season he really is the Rifleman.

Ethan Moreau’s EV points-per-60 number (5×5) so far this season is exceptional. One wonders about sustain but after 20 games the captain is delivering in a very big way.

Ales Hemsky has recovered from a poor start and is on track for 08-09, and Andrew Cogliano is having a season that is in the range with one year ago.

After that (at least up front) we’re looking at some fellows whose numbers are well of the pace and in some cases absolutely ghastly.

Here’s a list of the Oilers forwards and their 08-09 EV/60, and in brackets how they compare to one year ago. There’s some brutal stuff here.

  1. Ethan Moreau 2.25 (up from 1.21)
  2. Ales Hemsky 2.10 (down from 2.36)
  3. Andrew Cogliano 1.99 (down from 2.28)
  4. Dustin Penner 1.47 (up from 1.34)
  5. Fernando Pisani 1.32 (down from 1.55)
  6. Marc Pouliot 1.26 (down from 1.55)
  7. Shawn Horcoff 0.95 (down from 2.59)
  8. Robert Nilsson 0.79 (down from 2.37)
  9. Erik Cole 0.78 (down from 2.10)
  10. Sam Gagner 0.77 (down from 1.96)
  11. Kyle Brodziak 0.37 (down from 2.09)
  12. Zack Stortini 0.00 (down from 1.24)
  • Ethan’s having a helluva season so far.
  • Hemsky’s on track, and on a team that is addled.
  • Cogliano’s doing okay offensively with his EV minutes.
  • Penner’s UP this season in this area.
  • Pouliot may be able to improve this number in the next few weeks.
  • Horcoff’s number will get better, you’d have to bet on it.
  • Nilsson’s in a bit of trouble here.
  • Cole hasn’t been good enough.
  • Gagner is well off the pace of one year ago, but the number has improved lately.
  • Brodziak is struggling as much as he looks like he’s struggling.

We’ll check it again 10 games down the road to see if anyone has improved. My guesses would be Horcoff, Cole and Gagner, plus as a fan you’d hope Robert Nilsson has a nice run here.

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71 Responses to "EV Points Per 60 (5×5)"

  1. DeBakey says:

    Cole is suffering from a lack of Southeastern cooking

  2. jdrevenge says:

    Expectations getting to the players (and the coach)a little? I’d say probably. They might have thought it was going to be too easy coming out of the gate. Not paying attention to the small stuff and trying to skill win everything.

    I have faith. They’ll get it together once they collectively agree to play the system and buckle down.

  3. Kyle says:

    To say Cole has been disappointing would be an understatement.

  4. raventalon40 says:

    Why is Penner in the press box when Cole deserves that distinction? Cole hasn’t had a really strong game since Boston or Vancouver.

  5. B.C.B. says:

    Hey LT: I like the Jam, “In the City” ranks in my top ten punks songs of all time.

    On an Oilers note: I am losing hope for Cole, Pits for Cole is starting to look worse the Pronger for a couple prospect and some decent picks.

  6. Oilmaniac says:

    Agreed BCB,

    Especially when considering all the hype surrounding pits prior, and after, the trade to acquire him..

    Having played 7 less games (65% comparatively) pitkanen has 2 more points and only 5 shots fewer than cole…

  7. RiversQ says:

    Pretty ugly ES numbers everywhere. Case in point: Penner’s fourth on the team with a mediocre number and his SH% at EV is probably not sustainable. It’s a bit of a wonder they have done as well as they have at ES.

    Horcoff has done seemingly everything at ES except score so he’s probably due as you said.

    Cole’s underlying numbers don’t look too bad, so I’m not too worried but they do need more from him.

  8. RiversQ says:

    The Pitkanen trade worse than the Pronger one.

    Seriously, slap yourself. That’s the silliest comment of the year.

  9. Oilmaniac says:

    On the whole… ouch…

    Outside the top 3 players, there is very little even strength O-production…

  10. DeBakey says:

    Last year Cole was 2.1/60

    Now split that into two components
    -Pts/60 versus the SE Division
    -Pts/60 vs the rest of the league

    How does that 2nd number compare to this year’s number?

  11. Alice says:

    Before Cole becomes the next landing zone for our collective Anxieties, we Might remember that he spent significant time being experimented on the LW.

  12. Coach pb9617 says:

    Gagner is well off the pace of one year ago, but the number has improved lately.

    Well, he did get Hemsky.

    Stop makin ‘scuses. He’s not good this year.

  13. B.C.B. says:

    RQ: Why is the silliest comment all year.

    The Pronger trade was forced and in the media. We got back 2 first round selections, 1 second round choice, Smid, and Lupal (who we flip for Pitkanen- granted along with Smith) In those first round choices we got Nash and Eberle.

    Pitkanen trade could be considered forced, but was quiet. We got back a diminishing power forward, with one year left on his contract till he is an UFA.
    Every year since the Lockout his goals have gone down (05-06: 0.5 goals/game, 06-07: 0.41 g/game, and 0.30 goals/game- sorry I don’t use the accepted stats/couldn’t find them back to 05-06).
    This year we are paying him $4mil, he is not our number one RW (hemsky is), to play on our third line. After a giant waste of time playing him at left wing: point taken Alice. After this year he might bolt.
    I call this a bad trade: could we have got a right handed center for Pits? if we could have, this looks like a very bad trade.

    PS: I have been trying to hold back my reaction to Cole for a while, and then I saw this number. I am aware of the difference between Cole’s production inside and outside SE division (I think some great mind on the Oilblogosphere did a article on it this summer- just can’t find it now), also I am aware of his ability to draw penalities. I just don’t think he is worth $4mil or pits if he can’t produce goals.

  14. RiversQ says:

    BCB: You cannot be serious.

    It’s very simple. Pronger was top 3 at his position and tied down to a below market value contract for four years. That is many times more valuable than Pitkanen who was an RFA and not nearly as good in any situation.

    People seem to forget how truly horrible Lupul was in his year here. He was GA machine and he pissed away loads of soft TOI. Smid just never should have been in the league and the draft picks haven’t done anything yet. Cole hasn’t been good but he has not damaged the club like Smid and Lupul did in their first year.

    This is just silly. Props for trying to defend it though.

  15. Dennis says:

    I agree that 12′s in serious trouble as well. He started out fine but in the past few games he’s been virtually invisible at EV.

    The problem with 51 is that he isn’t even getting chances let alone scoring.

  16. B.C.B. says:

    Good Points RQ.

    Lets look at it this way:

    Pronger= best player in deal = ANA wins
    (there is no need to argue this we all know this)

    Is Cole the better player in the Pitkanen deal? I would say we have to look at numbers to tell us this, since there is no stand out. I am saying that the numbers are saying that Cole is not that great: maybe he will turn it up a notch or two in the last 3/4 of a season.
    Also, we have Cole for one year on an over-market contract. I say we lose the trade in terms of contracts: since Pits is signed for undermarket value for a defenseman for three years.
    Next year if Cole is gone (via UFA) did we still win the trade. Carolina gets Pits for two more years after. At least on the terrible Pronger trade we got assets that may develop or may not (they could also be traded into other things).

    NEW STATEMENT:
    Cole for Pits is the worst trade SINCE/BARRING the Pronger trade (in my humble opinion)

  17. godot10 says:

    //Why is Penner in the press box when Cole deserves that distinction? //

    Penner is signed to a long term contract. Cole is a UFA the OIlers might want to sign next May, so you can’t make Cole a whipping boy.

    Penner is a convenient whipping boy. He can be whipped because MacT is pretty confident that Penner wouldn’t wilt under the criticism, and it was a way to send a message to all the other underperformers who couldn’t be whipped.

    As for the Pitkanen trade, the Pitkanen and Stoll trades should be view together, since the Oilers pretty much knew when they made the Pitkanen trade that they would be making the Visnovsky trade.

    Visnovsky is an improvement on Pitkanen.

  18. Lowetide says:

    I don’t remember who said it, but I’ll be very interested in seeing the secondary numbers on the Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky trio. Someone suggested there must be some ugly growth in the underlying numbers and that would go a long way to helping me explain MacT this season.

  19. RiversQ says:

    BCB: I’m not going to argue the Cole trade was a good one but I will say it’s an 82 game season so let’s not be too quick to judge. Also Pitkanen is now benefiting from the same SE division that so many have vilified in this thread.

    Having said all that though, Lowe decided the marginal improvement at LW of Cole over Torres was worth the extra cash plus Pitkanen. That’s a pretty crazy notion coming into the year and so far it hasn’t turned out well at all.

  20. B.C.B. says:

    RQ: I would like nothing more the if Cole makes me eat crow. I like being right, but I like the Oilers winning more.
    I was just venting my frustration at Cole, and might have gone a little over board on the hyperbole, but if things don’t turn around we will have another Peca on our hands (a $4mil player, who performs poorly for part of the season and well in the latter half, and jumps ship after his contract is done), but we will have paid more for him- I’d trade mike york faster the Joni “I am hurt again” Pits.

  21. Oilmaniac says:

    Although people are getting on the lack of production with Cole, myself included, but shouldnt we also look at that blackhole of a third line (just to recycle the ‘penner stuck on the third line’ under cuts his offence)… Cole was taken from the top line and put back on the RW where he looked much improved. But with Cole on the RW has he had much for linemates?.. it seems like hes on his own, to make his own offence, and chemistry has been stunted because of (the 1st line failure) constantly blended 3rd line..

    Just a thought.. but is it just an excuse for a struggling player(s)..

  22. RiversQ says:

    godot10…
    As for the Pitkanen trade, the Pitkanen and Stoll trades should be view together, since the Oilers pretty much knew when they made the Pitkanen trade that they would be making the Visnovsky trade.

    Actually it’s the other way around. They made the Pitkanen trade after the Visnovsky trade.

    If you’re going to start pairing all the trades together in a vain attempt to make Lowe look better, you might as well throw the Torres deal in there too.

    What’s the net result? The D got considerably better with Vish, but the forwards got worse by not having a vet centre and getting little or no improvement over Torres on LW.

    Anyway, this team is matching or exceeding my expectations because I didn’t think they were a playoff team but they’ve hung in there to make it close with all these road games. It’ll be interesting to see the net result at the halfway point.

  23. Jonathan says:

    I’m suprisingly indifferent to those rather ugly numbers.

    The Oilers next ten games look like this:

    L.A at home
    In STL
    In DAL (#2 of b2b)
    DAL at home
    In LA
    In SJ (#2 of b2b)
    FLA at home
    VAN at home
    CHI at home
    In VAN (#2 of b2b)

    Let’s write off the San Jose game, the road game in Dallas, and the road game in Vancouver right now. This is still a run the Oilers should go no worse than 6-4 at, with a decent shot at being better than that, given that LA and Florida are LA and Florida, Dalls is minus Morrow, Vancouver is minus Luongo, and St. Louis has already decided to throw in the towel. Those back to back games muddle the issue, but the Oilers should put up some wins here, and then everyones numbers will look better (something Sheldon Souray hinted at today).

    Pouliot’s getting a chance at the third line, and Nilsson is getting reunited with Gagner and Cogliano in a soft minutes situation, so I think most of these guys have a good shot to get out of their current molasses.

    There are two guys who should be worried about their careers – Kyle Brodziak and Zack Stortini. The history of this league is full of overachieving mid/late round draft picks who had one good season and then fell off the face of the Earth. Brodziak’s been scratched once already, and Stortini has been routinely passed over in favour of gems like MacIntyre, Reddox, Boulerice, and now likely Sestito as well. Those boys are in trouble.

  24. PunjabiOil says:

    Seriously, slap yourself. That’s the silliest comment of the year.

    HAHAHA. You’re a fucking legend RiversQ. Keep it coming.

  25. RiversQ says:

    jonathan said…
    Pouliot’s getting a chance at the third line, and Nilsson is getting reunited with Gagner and Cogliano in a soft minutes situation, so I think most of these guys have a good shot to get out of their current molasses.

    Hold on, Stortini can’t be hugging all of them.

    I object to the use of “Molasses” or the “New Jersey Devils of *BLANK*” Both terms are reserved for Zach’s prodigious pugilistic je ne sais quoi.

  26. spOILer says:

    Horcoff —

    Horc says the game is slowing down for him, that it’s taken some time to adjust. Maybe that’s true, but my impression’s been that he’s been possessing a much easier portion of the offensive ice so far this year. When he was on last season’s goal-scoring tear, to my eye most of his goals were in the slot or at the crease. This year it seems like I’ve seen a plethora of shots from the half-boards, top half of the circle… From away. Not in the same country at all. Now I have no data to back this up (other than perhaps his poorer SH%), but to my eye, that’s what it has looked like.

    Cole —

    LW or RW, when I think of Cole’s offense I think of missed opportunities. I can’t think of another guy who’s had the puck as many time as Cole in the danger areas and come away with so little. Maybe Moreau, but that’s a congenital difference and we’ve learned to accept Moreau’s offense has a slim profit margin with decent earnings on excellent volume.

    That’s my eye too, but Dennis’ YTD scoring chances might say something different about his conversion ratio.

    Cole might be gripping his stick, or maybe suffering from the higher level of competition outside the SE, or maybe the longer travel with the evil sched has got to him, or maybe it’s a combo of all three.

    But if anyone deserves some chocolate minutes on the 2nd with a Gagner to get’er going…

    Brodz —

    He’s had the opportunity to play with have some strong guys on right wing. He’s had to take a bunch more defensive face-offs, often with the dirt poor linemates, against some tougher comp, and he maybe struggling a bit with that, He also seems to favour the LW in his play-making (GlenX, he’s a RH shot)so whatever advanced strike force is deployed on his right side hasn’t been exploited.

    Gagner –

    Needs a step back in match-ups and situations, to see if he’s learned anything from the tougher sledding. When he starts bringing us some 2-3 goal leads, he can have all he wants of that cake PK time;)

  27. RiversQ says:

    jonathan said…
    There are two guys who should be worried about their careers – Kyle Brodziak and Zack Stortini.

    I kind of doubt that. The org seems to like Stortini a lot. The worst that will happen during the year is that he’ll get sent down for a spell.

    Brodziak? I doubt that too. Sometimes MacT talks out of both sides of his mouth – he’s trashed 51 quite a bit and benched him, but he still keeps throwing him out there for tough assignments. Heck he’s nearly at a 3:1 ratio of DEF/OFF zone faceoffs and behind only Horc in terms of total DEF zone faceoffs.

    It is an incredible statement by MacT so far – he’s more willing to throw Brodziak and Pisani to the wolves than allow Cogs or Gagner to do any heavy lifting in the FO circle. That’s an indictment for the young guys.

    It’s about time he’s pulling a Barry Trotz and putting all his liabilities on one line. It’s like the inverse of Dennis’ Easter Basket Line. How about the Burning-Bag-of-Doo-On-Your-Doorstep Line?

    Now if he goes the next step and sends them out the shift after Horc going PVP, then they’re being given the softest possible assignment too.

  28. Kris says:

    I agree with Jonathon, but if these next 10-15 games go poorly, well then, there can be no more excuses. In the immortal words of Shakespeare:

    Now, if these men do not die [play] well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it; whom to disobey were against all proportion of subjection.

  29. HBomb says:

    Three things:

    1) The Pronger trade should have been Getzlaf and Vishnevski coming back the other way. Fuck this “five assets” stuff. One blue chip guy plus a veteran D salary dump. Quality over quantity. Given Pronger’s status and contract situation, Lowe would have been well within his bounds to tell Burke that the whole thing was a no-go unless Getzlaf is involved. If he didn’t like it? Hang up and wait for Philadelphia to offer Carter or for Florida to offer Horton, etc.

    2) I’m expecting big things out of Cole, Horcoff and Gagner the next 20. Especially 89. It’s one thing to try and give a 19-year old tougher assignments and steepen the learning curve….it’s another thing altogether (and a better strategy at this point, IMO) to put him with two guys he’s familiar with and give them butter-soft minutes. I think he’ll start hitting the gaps and will rack up some doubles and triples.

    3) Which “forward” line is worse: Reddox-Sestito-Smid or Ferguson-Bishai-Rita? This whole “two guys who should be in the AHL plus a converted defenseman” thing is, frankly, embarrassing.

    And one more….you have to look at this summer’s moves as a “total package”: the Visnovsky deal, the Cole deal, the Brule deal AND letting Glencross walk. Frankly, the Brule deal would have been a hell of a lot easier to stomach (and the team would likely be better off right now) if they hadn’t fucked up and let Glencross take the Greyhound down the QE2 to Flamerland…..BUT, there’s other guys out there who are both a) capable of doing that job and b) easy enough to acquire.

    The Oilers just haven’t done that yet. If they think Sestito and/or Reddox are the answer, I want the name of their dealer, because that’s some good shit they’re smokin’….

  30. RiversQ says:

    If they think Sestito and/or Reddox are the answer, I want the name of their dealer, because that’s some good shit they’re smokin’….

    Uh, what has been wrong with Reddox given his role?

  31. Doogie2K says:

    I think what he’s saying is, the Oilers haven’t really tried to replace Glencross, instead choosing to go with the pure grinder.

  32. Jonathan says:

    RiversQ:

    I’ve got some give on Brodziak, simply because of the ratio of offensive zone to defensive zone draws, and what it implies.

    Stortini though I can’t help feeling is almost done. This team looked better when an ECHL brawler was being given a third of Stortini’s minutes, and the rest to proper players. In a normal year it wouldn’t be a big deal; Stortini could just be a reserve forward. In the year of the three-headed goaltender, the Oilers really don’t have the luxury.

  33. HBomb says:

    I think what he’s saying is, the Oilers haven’t really tried to replace Glencross, instead choosing to go with the pure grinder.

    That’s pretty much it, more or less.

    Plus, Glencross was actually visible while here. Beyond the goal he scored against Colorado, the only time I noticed him on the ice was while screaming “why are they playing that guy with Cogliano and Cole?”

    It was like a Toby Petersen acid-flashback or something….

    Reddox should be on the fourth line. At BEST. Good that they’ve stuck him there now, bad that it’s with a guy who probably has no business in the NHL (Sestito) and a guy who should be playing on the 3rd defensive pairing (Smid).

    Now if the fourth line was Reddox-Brodziak-Stortini, I could live with that short-term. The idea that they’re HS’ing 51 for the next game, given the situation at center, well, it doesn’t make much sense even if they think he has been struggling.

    The time for “sending messages” is over – time to ice the best possible lineup and start winning some hockey games.

  34. Coach pb9617 says:

    Someone suggested there must be some ugly growth in the underlying numbers and that would go a long way to helping me explain MacT this season.

    I think it’s great that the boys came out to “You’re Gonna Go Far, Kid” by The Offspring to start the season.

    Show me how to lie
    You’re getting better all the time
    And turning all against the one
    Is an art that’s hard to teach
    Another clever word
    Sets off an unsuspecting herd
    And as you get back into line
    A mob jumps to their feet

  35. Coach pb9617 says:

    Uh, what has been wrong with Reddox given his role?

    Absolutely nothing. He’s been quite good.

  36. Kris says:

    “Uh, what has been wrong with Reddox given his role?”

    It’s not that he’s been bad. He hasn’t lost us any games Rather, a veteran 3C or a Glencross-like would have helped us win games.

  37. HBomb says:

    Absolutely nothing. He’s been quite good.

    I’ve seen a guy who’s been barely noticeable outside of the one goal he did score.

    I wouldn’t call that good, I’d call it “acceptable”.

    I’ll say this, of the three guys on the 4th line tomorrow night, he’s the one most deserving of an NHL forward spot. Smid should be playing on the blueline, and Sestito should be playing in Springfield.

  38. Yeti says:

    I guess Sesito is under few illusions about his role:

    “The first thing I thought when I got called up is I can’t wait to try and put somebody through the glass. That’s my role, that’s what I do. I want to hit somebody hard. I’m guessing that’s what they (Oilers management) want.”

    I hope he doesn’t find himself out of his depth. The NHL game runs a little faster and trying to make the big hits can leave you awfully exposed. I guess it’s a good thing he’s got a defenseman as his LW?!!?

  39. Hockey4Life says:

    I would agree with all of you that Cole has been a disappointment. I am a big fan of his. I would like to comment on what actually started this whole string. That is EV% points down from 2. Something, to less than 1. My problem with statisticians is that it doesn’t take into account other factors. First, I agree the LW experiment was a VERY bad idea. But, MacT did right the ship and put him back on RW (Where he belongs) Secondly, he is now on the 3rd line which is fine but he isn’t playing 3rd line with an Eric Staal or Horc or Hemsky. My final statement on this is if you take last year’s TOI and compare it to TOI this year you will see a HUGE difference, and with that TOI dropping you will also wee the EV% points drop. If you’re not on the ice you’re not going to be scoring goals or getting any assist.

  40. Coach pb9617 says:

    I’ve seen a guy who’s been barely noticeable outside of the one goal he did score.

    The underlying numbers are fine, I’m not getting why you’re singling out Reddox.

  41. Sean says:

    Wow so many forwards down big time in EV pts/60 I’m surprised our record is as good as it is.

    If this team makes the playoffs (and I think they will) Erik Cole will be Mike Peca and Joni Pitkanen will sit out with a sore groin.

    I’m as big of a 12 fan as anyone but someone should mention the possibility of Sugaritis getting a chance at his minutes.

  42. Coach pb9617 says:

    I’m as big of a 12 fan as anyone but someone should mention the possibility of Sugaritis getting a chance at his minutes.

    Yeah, I bet no one has thought of that.

  43. quain says:

    Sounds like Horcoff should be put on the third line and we should replace him with Schremp on the top line. Can you name thirty centers better than Schremp?! I didn’t think so!

  44. Sean says:

    Yeah, I bet no one has thought of that.

    Ok fine, nevermind.

  45. dstaples says:

    Cole has been supbar but I’m giving him time — it worked with Grebeshkov, for instance.

    Cole playing on the wrong wing — when his best move is a hard cut inside off the right wing — didn’t help his game. Left wing, even on a line with Hemmer and Horc, was a place where he had little chance of succeeding in retrospect. They are combination players, passers, he is not.

    He looked OK for a spell when he was with Horcoff and Pisani on a hard-checking line, the best Oilers forward combo I’ve seen this year, which isn’t saying a lot, given the baffling line combos that have so far been out there. On any report card, MacTavish deserves one of the lowest marks.

    So Cole is no passer, he’s a bull, and putting him with anotehr bull, Moreau, and Pouliot will be interesting. Two net-crashers, two guys with blinders on, two non-passers, all on one line. It’s going to be up to Pouliot to do the puck-carrying, the playmaking. This is his big chance to put up some points . . . Here’s hoping, because the kid does have some skill . . .

  46. Coach pb9617 says:

    Sounds like Horcoff should be put on the third line and we should replace him with Schremp on the top line. Can you name thirty centers better than Schremp?! I didn’t think so!

    I love this blog.

  47. Doogie2K says:

    My final statement on this is if you take last year’s TOI and compare it to TOI this year you will see a HUGE difference, and with that TOI dropping you will also wee the EV% points drop. If you’re not on the ice you’re not going to be scoring goals or getting any assist.

    I won’t immediately disagree with the rest, though there are some here who might, but I will point out here that the idea behind EV/60 is that it factors out ice time; a player who scores five points in 150 EV minutes (7:30/g) will have the same EV/60 (2.00) as someone who scores ten points in 300 EV minutes (15:00/g). Whether he has enough ice time to actually accomplish anything on a game to game basis is a more open question, but considering a full twenty games, you probably still want to see more, even considering the extenuating circumstances.

  48. Dennis says:

    JW: I’m not really ready to just concede points anymore in Dal or in any of those games you cited outside of the one in SJ. If you expect this team to get on a run then it has to come sooner or later.

    For awhile now I’ve thought the best idea was to have 10-83-plus go PVP, 78 pivoting some of 18-34-26 in the secondary PVP and then have the kids plus Penner taking on the soft. There’s a few ways it could’ve went:

    - keeping 26 with 10-83 – they didn’t score but I liked how that line was outchancing

    - 78 being the secondary tough min pivot right off the fucking hop and being paired with 34.

    - perhaps 34 plays with 10-83 and 78 helms 18-26.

    - above all, play the Kids vs the soft opp until the time when they’re murdering them and you have to wonder if we’d be better off having them play tougher opp.

    But for whatever reason MacT didn’t want to do any of these things or keep doing the one thing he started; 26 with 10-83. Heading into the season it looked like macT had certain things in his mind:

    - 34 could hang with tough min pivot duty
    - 78 could not hang or should not be trusted in those duties unless basically all other options had been exhausted.
    - the Kids would be broken up without a lot of rope allowed; 89 would be given a push to play against better players
    - Garon would be supplanted at the first sign of trouble.

    So here we are now with finally some semblance of order in the lines — it would help if 34 was around — and it looks like garon is gonna start tomorrow night so all we need now is 5 back in for 43 and some of 12-27-43 being dealt for a defender AND we need to pick up a vet centre if 78 fails in his audition.

  49. Ender says:

    @Doogie

    It stands to reason that those with less icetime are likely to have lower EVPTS/60 by psychology – it takes longer to get into the zone, etc.

    Doubt it’d make a big difference, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t make any difference at all.

  50. hunter1909 says:

    I always hated everything about the Jam.

    It’s Cole’s wife. Did anyone see that thing on Cole going shopping for a new TV a few weeks ago? His wife looked like she was tripping over her face.

    He’s not staying.

  51. hunter1909 says:

    Someone needs to put a poll on HF boards that goes like this:

    Do you want Rob Schremp to fail?

    1 – Yes. Then MacT is proven correct.
    2 – Yes. Serves him right, for whatever.
    3 – No. My name is Bryanbroil.
    4 – No. It would shock me however, to see him do otherwise.

  52. Tyler says:

    If hunter just dials back the MacT bashing a bit, he’s a very funny guy.

    (OK – I’ll admit it – I have a soft spot for jokes about how much BBO loves Rob Schremp.)

  53. dave says:

    Is it fair to say that this years roster is more different than anything MacT has had to coach in the past? In the past I would say we have been deep in “utility” players that could fill in a variety of situ’s?

    It’s easy to see we have pretty defined skills, that MacT has tried to fit into multi-task roles. I don’t think the current roster is as Macdabtable. And in this case I don’t think it is the players problem. I would really like to see all the under performers live or die in a role they do best.

    I think it has been a pretty tough semester to grade thus far.

  54. Doogie2K says:

    @Ender: Oh, I agree. Like I said above, “[w]hether he has enough ice time to actually accomplish anything on a game to game basis is a more open question.” There’s definitely reason to think he’d have fewer opportunities, and I also agree with H4L that there are certainly reasons (LW switch, line shuffling, 3rd line time) behind that Godawful number. That being said, it’s still Godawful, and you’d still like to see more, especially given some of the opportunities he’s biffed (though can’t we cay that for most of the Oilers’ F corps?)

  55. Kris says:

    Dave: I don’t know about Macdatabtable, but it certainly must be true that veteran two-way players -even if they’re not that good- are easier to coach than young guys, offensive specialists, and one-dimensional players, i.e. most of the current team.

    Maybe the current Oilers are a bit like the team in the movie Major League: a bunch of misfits whose odd individual talents don’t mesh well at first. Let’s hope our reality works out like the movie.

    Is Charlie Sheen still playing in Springfield; maybe we should call him up.

  56. Traktor says:

    “OK – I’ll admit it – I have a soft spot for jokes about how much BBO loves Rob Schremp.”

    I’m not a fan of Schremp but if he gets called up and nets 1 or 2 points he’ll have had a better career than Pouliot, who’s received as much love or more than Schremp around here.

  57. hunter1909 says:

    Does anyone here remember what Lowe said on draft day why they picked Pouliot?

    To paraphrase Lowe, it was words to the effect of :

    “We really liked the way he played for the worst team in the Q, he never gave up even though they were getting beaten most of the time”

    Okay, so who thinks Lowe has finally put together just the right sort of team for Pouliot?

  58. Kris says:

    Traktor:

    Let me prove you're wrong a priori:

    Suppose that:

    A = Irrational Schremp Love
    B = Irrational Pouliot Love

    If so, then:

    A > B

    Or more specifically:

    A > (CxB)

    Where C is any rational number.

  59. Bruce says:

    Whether he has enough ice time to actually accomplish anything on a game to game basis is a more open question.

    Doogie: Indeed. Many a talented player gets buried on the fourth line and doesn’t get the minutes to accumulate big points, even when he is being productive. e.g. Steve Sullivan, who compiled an impressive 20-20-40 (and +12!) in just 63 GP of just 14 minutes a game the season before the Leafs waived him. Some of the games he missed were “coach’s decision”, and when he played he was saddled with any manner of plumbers and worse on his line, and at best last 30 seconds of the powerplay. I had him on my pool team that year and every time I’d see him he’d look awesome in spurts, and then you wouldn’t see him for awhile while guys like Derek King, Igor Korolev and Todd Warriner got the love.

    It stands to reason that those with less icetime are likely to have lower EVPTS/60 by psychology – it takes longer to get into the zone

    Ender: especially if you’re entering the Zone with Kris King and Tie Domi riding shotgun. :)

  60. Coach pb9617 says:

    hunter, change it so the question is “Do you want to see Rob Schremp traded?”

    And I will answer:

    1. yes, because I’m so sick of hearing about him.

  61. JB-"jiggyman" says:

    Did Cole not play with Eric Staal for years in Carolina?

    Just a slight dropoff in linemate quality…
    He’s now playing his natural position with Pouliot and Moreau… can we really expect this guy to be anything more than a solid defensive forward?

    X-Cogliano-Cole on the 2nd line is where he should be used IMO.

  62. Bank Shot says:

    Maybe the Oilers can trade Cole for Glencross?

    Haha. Just kidding…not really.

  63. hunter1909 says:

    Why do players like Cole, Penner come to Edmonton then get worse?

    I’m starting to suspect Lowe is a sucker.

    The way he keeps his erections over missed draft day picks, for example.

    Help me out if I’m wrong, but wasn’t he preparing to offer Parise a 4 1st round offer sheet?

  64. hunter1909 says:

    I can predict Schremp’s most likely scenario:

    1 – Arrives in Edmonton, plays 10 games and scores and plays better than expected by the majority of fans.

    2 – After 10 games, joins the rest of the team in underachieving.

  65. Yeti says:

    hunter, change it so the question is “Do you want to see Rob Schremp traded?”

    And I will answer:

    1. yes, because I’m so sick of hearing about him.

    If you think that trading Schremp will silence the issue, think again coach. The minute Schremp puts on another uniform you will hear of his every move. Each time he takes a dump, you’ll hear about its size, texture the noise it made hitting the bowl, and – most importantly – whether it would have been a smoother experience if only he’d been given a real shot with Hemsky.

    To be honest, I prefer the endless whining about Schremp-exiled-to-the minors than the neverending drone of Schremp-the-one-who-got-away.

  66. Coach pb9617 says:

    To be honest, I prefer the endless whining about Schremp-exiled-to-the minors than the neverending drone of Schremp-the-one-who-got-away.

    I have a feeling that Schremp will be the one that got away until we see him at the 10 year reunion – fat, bloated, and with a rash.

  67. James L. says:

    “Does anyone remember the Jam?”

    Are you KIDDING? I love those Modfathers, although some of their albums are hit and miss. But when they were good, they were DAMN good.

  68. Lowetide says:

    I think the obvious Schremp question now is “what happens when a highly touted offensive player comes out of junior and spends three uneven seasons in the AHL?” and the answer includes trade, Europe and a player agent calling the Oilers and giving new meaning to the word pithy.

  69. Doogie2K says:

    Each time he takes a dump, you’ll hear about its size, texture the noise it made hitting the bowl, and – most importantly – whether it would have been a smoother experience if only he’d been given a real shot with Hemsky.

    And of course, that will lead to inevitable comparisons such as, “Would Schremp have had a larger, louder crap than Horcoff?”, and “Can you name 30 centres in the NHL who deuce better than Horcoff?”

  70. quain says:

    Horcoff has forgotten what earned him that big, lucrative contract: hard-working deuces. That’s why he’s failing this season.

  71. Doogie2K says:

    @Quain: I’m still not sold on the concept of him having ever been a “No. 2″ centre.

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