Oilers at Rangers, G15/08-09

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.

298 Responses to "Oilers at Rangers, G15/08-09"

« Older Comments
  1. Traktor says:

    Who’s the guy who kept referring to Souray as a bright shiny object?

    Souray is one bad ass mofo that is carrying our team.

    Put Horc and Hemsky on separate lines and we win back to back on the road. Who would’ve thunk it?

    Pouliot with a nice pass to set up the PP with 2 minutes to go. He’s getting a tiny bit better every game.

    JDD proving some peeps wrong. What an exaggeration on the save to win it. Icing on the cake.

  2. Asiaoil says:

    MacT was just guessing and hoping as usual with his choice of goaltending tonight. The guy (and the rest of the org as well) simply does not have a clue in this area – but instead of hiring someone who does – they pretend the position is all unknowable blackness and voodoo. Tonight we got lucky – but just like a guy who insists on hitting a 16 regularly – the odds eventually catch up to you. The entire Lowe era has been like this – seriously – when was the last time we had better than average goaltending for a sustained period? I’d say that ended when Cujo left town and that was a long time ago :( This looks like a better version of 05-06 than anything to me – but I’ll be happy about the successful road trip for now.

  3. Coach pb9617 says:

    and JDD will revert to form unless he’s a freak who is somehow much better in the NHL than in the AHL.

    It’s not that improbable. He might not end up a stud, but there are examples of guys that outperform in the NHL:

    Lalime and Brent Johnson come to mind. Like I said – nothing groundbreaking, but they did outperform.

  4. dave says:

    Hell’s ya! JDD! Guess we did’nt “throw” that one away after all.

  5. Traktor says:

    The organization might have a reason to lie, but when they say they believe JDD was the best goaltender in the AHL last year I think you have to default to the quote rather than a number on a computer screen.

  6. Coach pb9617 says:

    MacT was just guessing and hoping as usual with his choice of goaltending tonight. The guy (and the rest of the org as well) simply does not have a clue in this area – but instead of hiring someone who does – they pretend the position is all unknowable blackness and voodoo.

    I asked before, and I’ll ask again — outside of Buffalo and San Jose, name an organization that does develop goalies?

  7. Dennis says:

    Scott: I had the chances as 9-7 for the Oil in the 3rd; 4-1 in OT. So, as objective as the stat may be, it looks like two guys who don’t know each other are pretty close to being on the same page.

    I will focus on tonight’s positives considering that we won and the like:) and I was impressed that the oilers bounced back to outchance the rags in the 3rd period; especially considering they allowed the tying goal less than a min into the period and thus had plenty of time to properly implode. We also saw the dangerous 13 tonight as he had three bonafide SC’s which put him at the top of the class.

    I haven’t added up the SC’s as of yet but I’m thinking that the 89 line will be the ones who’ll look bad at night’s end.

    10′s new line certainly has some potential and they’ll be absolutely miserable when they can start their cycle; the oilers should really be two radically different teams because I’m thinking macT’s gonna run the shit out of these guys at home and that should keep the SC’s in relative check. Though the biggest question for me now is how we build two tough min line because until we do we’ll still be ripe for the picking against teams that can ice two scoring lines or at least an approximation.

    When you think about it looks like 89′s either being fast-tracked or we’re moving an awful lot of things around so that he can succeed. Right now there’s no way 27-13-78 can play toughs but that will be asked of them or it will be asked of 89 and someone’s going to pay. I still think we’re better off with 10-83 PLUS, 18-78-34 as the two checking lines and then we have the Kids plus 26-27 to round out the 10 line plus formulate a soft min line.

    I think trying anything other than that will lead back to overall flow of play performances like tonight.

    Other stuff – it’s gonna take a long time before I believe in our PP….the PP is getting an awful lot of less out of an awful lot of more…that sequence in the 3rd where 18 tried to carry the puck out twice instead of making the smart play made me wonder how much the Kids will heed his lessons considering he doesn’t practice what he preaches.

    JDD – a big guy with amazing flexibility and hasn’t shown an easy ability to rattle thus far but overall we don’t need more youth. He’s likeable and an easy guy to root for but just how many years are we going to try and rebuild anyway?

  8. Traktor says:

    If there was ever a guy to have a better NHL career than minor pro wouldn’t it be the guy who had a bunch of negative external factors that played into thing? Like Edmonton not having a farm team?

  9. digger says:

    but I’ll be happy about the successful road trip for now.

    That’s funny, because you don’t really sound happy…you sound more like it’s causing you physical anguish to see JDD play this well. ;)

    It’s OK man, I’m sure you’ll get your day in the sun again. But not tonight. :)

  10. Coach pb9617 says:

    If there was ever a guy to have a better NHL career than minor pro wouldn’t it be the guy who had a bunch of negative external factors that played into thing?

    Or Lalime, who came up in an organization that had no goaltending coach until two years ago.

  11. Jonathan says:

    The organization might have a reason to lie, but when they say they believe JDD was the best goaltender in the AHL last year I think you have to default to the quote rather than a number on a computer screen.

    Every organization hypes their prospects. Besides, when the Oilers say that, they do lie. Brian Boucher was clearly the best AHL goaltender last season. Unless it was Mike Leighton.

    And since we’re talking obscure goaltenders, why doesn’t Craig Anderson get any love as a possible fill-in in NJ or NYI?

  12. Jonathan says:

    Incidentally, Traktor, most organizations use computers now anyway, so it will always be a number on a computer screen, be it Corsi or positive scouting reports.

    You remind me of Ken Campbell when he rants about Ron Wilson. Wilson talks about other things he keeps track of, and Campbell says “the computer sent him down”.

  13. Lord Bob says:

    You remember that terrible computer-generated cartoon “Ice” that HNIC was showing in their intermissions, like, seven years ago? The one where robots were taking over the NHL?

    Sometimes, I wonder if half the reporters in the league think that’s a documentary.

  14. Jonathan says:

    Traktor said: I think you have to default to the quote rather than a number on a computer screen.

    Does that apply to Shawn Horcoff? Because if it does, do you default to 1 EV PT, or the quote?

    Prendergast on Horcoff: “We feel we have something special here. Shawn is one of our leaders. And it’s something Kevin Lowe has done with the key players on our team. We know these players and their work ethic. These are the guys you have to build your hockey club around and the guys who need to teach the young guys how to get there. We consider Shawn a leader and a mainstay.”

  15. Coach pb9617 says:

    Does that apply to Shawn Horcoff? Because if it does, do you default to 1 EV PT, or the quote?

    Hoisted by one’s own petard.

  16. PunjabiOil says:

    The organization might have a reason to lie, but when they say they believe JDD was the best goaltender in the AHL last year I think you have to default to the quote rather than a number on a computer screen.

    Go back to HF, you HF clown.

  17. bookie says:

    Funny, a few weeks ago I suggested JDD should get a shot because I think that he might just make it (and give us room to dump Roli for a bag of pucks – Note I love Roli, but his skills have declined). Yet, tonight I agree with those who say ‘lets wait a few more games before we declare JDD our saviour’. Many a young goalie has come up to the Big League to make a quick splash only to disappear after a few games.

  18. rickibear says:

    “Go back to HF, you HF clown”

    PJO: When I go to HF I see you posting more than Traktor. I will assume the quote was you talking to yourself.

    His conspiracy rhetoric is no more annoying than Dennis or anyone else.

  19. PunjabiOil says:

    PJO: When I go to HF I see you posting more than Traktor.

    It was a tounge in cheek comment.

    His conspiracy rhetoric is no more annoying than Dennis or anyone else.

    How is Dennis annoying? He knows the game, brings value added insightful discussion to the table. Maybe you’re referring to the Oilfans days, and his consistent Salo (mine you, he was right) bashing ;)

  20. kinger says:

    His conspiracy rhetoric is no more annoying than Dennis or anyone else.

    Ridiculous.

    Dennis provides these threads with informative and enjoyable commentary. His observations on the inside workings of the team are grounded in fact and supported by evidence.

    Traktor on the other hand is like a crying kid in a movie theater: everyone just wants him to shut the fuck up.

  21. Bank Shot says:

    “When you think about it looks like 89′s either being fast-tracked or we’re moving an awful lot of things around so that he can succeed.”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Mactavish thinks they need to get Gagner going to be a solid playoff contender. The Oilers aren’t getting much from their forwards this season, and Gagner was the catalyst on the kid line last year.

    If Sam gets going again then the Oilers have a bonafide second line threat to run behind whoever the hell is on Hemsky’s line.

  22. Schitzo says:

    A question and a comment.

    The question – is it possible that playing with NHL-quality defencemen who behave in a predictable way could do wonders for a goalie’s performance?

    The comment – my brother is a casual fan, tonight he commented “wow, Pouliot is a lot bigger than I expected”. I told him he has no idea how significant that comment has been since 2003.

  23. Scott says:

    Deconstruction? (…)

    All the french kids coming up through the minors would emulate his style and soon all goaltenders would look like a giant scarecrow propped by strings, being controlled by a marionette on PCP and crack.

    I think Derrida wrote about this.

  24. spOILer says:

    Really, am I the only one who saw Souray and Vish purposefully passing to each other’s front foot so they would get the puck back and be the one to take the one-timer?

    Could someone with PVR take a look, tell me I’m off my rocker?

    This can’t keep up, it’s killing the PP with too many back-end passes, not to mention the pissing contest going on.

    I can understand they both want to be the guy, both want to shoot, but you can’t be deliberately hooping the other player.

  25. Schitzo says:

    I just don’t understand MacT’s math… you have two PP shooters and two PP puck movers. How can you not put one of each on the seperate units?

    Adding insult to injury is that we TRIED brute forcing the double-slapshot option when we played Souray with Stoll last year. It didn’t work then either.

    Can anyone confirm for me – was Vish shooting for Brodziak’s stick on the second goal? It seemed to me that he was deliberately wide of the net.

  26. HBomb says:

    Sam Gagner may only have two assists, but I’m more excited about this kid than I was when he was racking up points last season in the stretch drive.

    He’s playing better in his own end. The plus/minus number is in check. And he’s not playing trivial, 100% sheltered opposition. All this at age 19.

    The skill is there. The points will come. I get chills thinking how good this kid is going to be in two years. A one-two center punch of he and Horcoff will be the envy of all but a select few teams (Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelpia, maybe a pre-retirement Colorado).

    Speaking of Horcoff….I’m loving this combination with Cole and Pisani. They may be the “second” line by common definition, but based on the matchups they’re going to be seeing if they stay together, they’ll be 1A to whatever line Hemsky is on (Gagner/Penner longterm, one would have to assume). I’m expecting pretty positive results….especially considering they’ll potentially be in Pahlsson/Madden territory in terms of QUALCOMP.

    8-6-1 through THAT stretch of 15 games has me grinnin’ ear to ear tonight. How someone could fail to be optimistic about this team, I do not know.

    Get Garon going and add a McLaren and Peca at the deadline, and this team gets into the 2nd round, methinks. As is, they’re a playoff team.

  27. Schitzo says:

    Rumour has it that Marchant might get waived to take a run at Sundin. Thoughts as a 3C?

  28. Asiaoil says:

    Coach pb9617 said…”I asked before, and I’ll ask again — outside of Buffalo and San Jose, name an organization that does develop goalies?”

    Well if you insist: MON, BUF, SJS, ANA, DAL, MIN, PIT, NYR, NYJ, NYI, FLA, CAR, NAS.

    That’s almost half the league and we are worse than than most of the rest. Too friggin easy…

  29. William says:

    Schitzo: 71 definitely took some mustard off the shot and put it low and wide toward the white sweater (Brodziak) in hope of a deflection. Sweet tip by 51.

    44 and 71 at EV looks to be working, but I wish I understood why MacT persists in sending them out together for the PP when it’s clearly not working that well:

    - thinks they’ll work themselves out of the funk?
    - optics?
    - fear of disgruntling one or the other?
    - wanting to keep the D pairs consistent?
    - truly believing having two shooters on the one unit makes other teams scared?

  30. Asiaoil says:

    Good for JDD….but we’ve been down this road the last two years even in the AHL. Plays well for a while at the beginning of the year then the wheels fall off. The only thing I find physically anguishing is neophyte HF types coming over here and wetting htemselves over the latest kid to play a decent game or two. A bunch of us came over here to escape that – but the rabble is spilling over here with their smack talk and ADD-style reasoning. Too bad.

  31. rickibear says:

    “How is Dennis annoying? He knows the game, brings value added insightful discussion to the table. Maybe you’re referring to the Oilfans days, and his consistent Salo (mine you, he was right) bashing ;)”

    Dennis is not annoying neither is Traktor. Get the point. I was however refering to his june-july 2007 and june-july 2008 commentary his KLowe Conspiracy Club Phase.
    Sorry Dennis.

    “Dennis provides these threads with informative and enjoyable commentary. His observations on the inside workings of the team are grounded in fact and supported by evidence.”

    Unless people posting here work in the oilers office it is all opinion and speculation.

    We are all fans. I spent training camp weekend watching the scrimmages, Joey moss cup, and talking to many Oilogosphere and HF people.
    Recognized many names. People can articulate there thoughts better in person than in writing.

    I be one of those.

    “Traktor on the other hand is like a crying kid in a movie theater: everyone just wants him to shut the fuck up.”

    I rank some of the things Traktor has said on the HF board with the comment from people I enjoy on this sight. Even the people who disagree with my thought (souray is a mistake club)are informative and entertaining.

    Your frank language says to me you are not a parent. (Sure your kids have an expanded vocabulary compliments of yoursite LT)

    A Lesson: Your were in the theatre show that allows babies and children in it. Book a show that does not allow children.

    This site is that baby show. If you do not like the crying leave. It is your choice. Problem is you will miss the show.

    Blog sites are about free speech. We complain about the oilers and there selective press box passes.

    Then we throw a temper tantrum when we don’t like what comments come on LT’s site. Don’t be so elitist.

  32. Schitzo says:

    One thing I will say about Horcoff, hopefully without sparking some huge debate:

    He has really improved his stickwork in his own end. Tips, knockdowns and deflections every time the puck comes within a 6-foot circle of him. I love it.

  33. digger says:

    The only thing I find physically anguishing is neophyte HF types coming over here and wetting htemselves over the latest kid to play a decent game or two. A bunch of us came over here to escape that – but the rabble is spilling over here with their smack talk and ADD-style reasoning. Too bad.

    So I’m “rabble” to you?

    As you wish. I would certainly hope you’re not this thin skinned and defensive in real life.

    And smack talk/ADD-style reasoning doesn’t happen in this little blog world? If LT wanted nothing but a mutual admiration society, then he should just come out and say that only the “elite” are allowed to post in his blog.

    Or he could just create an email distribution list, and society’s upper crust can converse with each other in that manner and cut out the lower class entirely. Why not just do that?

    But until such events occur, I think I’ll post here when I feel like it. Hopefully you’ll learn to stomach that.

  34. rickibear says:

    “The only thing I find physically anguishing is neophyte HF types coming over here and wetting htemselves over the latest kid to play a decent game or two. A bunch of us came over here to escape that – but the rabble is spilling over here with their smack talk and ADD-style reasoning. Too bad.”

    Aoil: You are one of the first commentors I truely enjoyed reading in the summer of Chris Pronger.

    I will continue to look with interest for your comments with a slight caviot. “I will remember this person is an elitist ( ).”

    When I log onto the HF site, I often see Lowetide on the log bar.

    People come over to his blog to read, learn, and comment. That is the best compliment he can get.

    You insult this site and the vary nature of its growth by your attitude.

    Please continue with the positive comments and insite I have defended in the past.

  35. Schitzo says:

    Not that my thoughts mean a whole lot, but here’s how I see things.

    “Horcoff isn’t producing at evens, Hemsky isn’t suited for heavy PvP play, so we need to split them up. Horc isn’t driving results right now.”

    = meaningful criticism, even if the target is the blogosphere’s golden boy.

    “Hahaha, JDD has as many ES points, MacT is a dummy”

    = over the top hyperbole.

    The part that’s a shame, to me at least, is the over the top hyperbole means people tune you out, even if you ultimately have a valid point.

    I’m not sure if everyone can take a deep breath and stop getting so mad at the internet, but it would be nice to admit that nobody here is a total dummy with nothing valid to add.

  36. spOILer says:

    Hbomb:

    When it comes to Gagner, I try to remind myself of Hemsky and the growing pains (and continuing growing pains) with him and the patience required. And I think of the Hemsky we have today. And my god, when I think of bad turnovers, Gagner is a long way a way from Hemmer’s record.

    Both good in vision… Hemmer has the advantage in physical attributes, but Gagner seems to have it in sense.

    Like a certain W. Gretzky.

    Gagner seems to catch on sooner rather than later (as slow as he seems right now to the HFers) and I think we’ll have a Drury younger than Drury developed and younger than our own Hemsky. And maybe a between-Drury-and-Crosby in the long run.

  37. spOILer says:

    Without the muscular thighs, mind you. Pretty as they are, they’re not a prerequisite to good-looking play unless Gagner’s within a 500 mile radius of Pierre “Salt Peter” Maguire.

  38. doritogrande says:

    Limnology paper finished on time: check.

    Drunken night out with friends: check.

    Oilers win with a rookie goalie again: checkmate.

    Go have a drink everyone!

    PS, Doogie2K: you a physiology major or something? Your post about the muscular needs of goalies back in the first half reminded me a lot of my control system physyiology course.

  39. Lowetide says:

    Everyone is welcome to post on this site. Everyone.

  40. godot10 says:

    Asiaoil wrote:
    //Coach pb9617 said…”I asked before, and I’ll ask again — outside of Buffalo and San Jose, name an organization that does develop goalies?”
    Well if you insist: MON, BUF, SJS, ANA, DAL, MIN, PIT, NYR, NYJ, NYI, FLA, CAR, NAS.//

    Anaheim? Guiguere is on his third organization. Hartford and Calgary are the teams who “paid” for his training.

    Carolina? How is Carolina before Ward any different than the Oilers before (knock on wood) Deslauriers?

    Florida? Vokoun is on his third organization. Luongo was on his second organization. Who have they developed?

    Nashville? Wasn’t Ellis from the Dallas system? Vokoun was on his second organization? Who have they developed?

    New Jersey? Who did New Jersey develop other that Brodeur? One goaltender does not indicate a trend?

  41. Jonathan says:

    Good grief.

    Traktor’s annoying, despite having some good points, but he can make reasonable people sound awfully stupid because he’s so irritating. My natural inclination is to disagree with anything he says because his presentation is so acidic, and he’s clearly got a pair of axes at the grindstone- which is a mistake. There’s nothing wrong with his viewpoint, but his presentation is designed to offend. He deserves to be called on his hyperbole (that comment about deferring to quotes from the org was one of the greatest gems of stupidity I’ve ever seen on this site), but he isn’t anything to get worked up over.

    It’s the internet, folks. I’ve never met anyone here in real life, maybe never will, but I enjoy intelligent discussion of this hockey team. I’m not such a big fan of the drama and the insistence of drawing lines (HF Clowns, elitists, etc.).

    And that’s what I try to remind myself when I’m being baited. ;)

  42. HBomb says:

    Everyone is welcome to post on this site. Everyone.

    Amen to that. However, I also agree with Jonathan’s point. Irrational hyperbole needs to be called out if/when it happens.

    Especially when it’s coming in large doses.

  43. Doogie2K says:

    Doogie2K: you a physiology major or something? Your post about the muscular needs of goalies back in the first half reminded me a lot of my control system physyiology course.

    Biomechanics, actually, but the program requires several physiology courses.

  44. Nelson88 says:

    w/r/t this JDD debate and taking time to be successful.

    Why don’t names like Turco or Belfour get brought up? Both didn’t exactly tear a path to the NHL and ended up with pretty good NHL careers (at least until 2008 in Turco’s case ;)

    I am not suggesting JDD is a future hall of famer or anything but I have always been a little mystified by the negativity towards the guy.

  45. relic says:

    just wondering what the context of JDDs historically below the water mark SPP numbers are. Were his teams not as good? Has he historically started stronger than he finishes as AO suggests? We know he’s battled injuries right?

    Simply b/c the Oilers haven’t developed a tender since the glory days doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t. Calling Pete Peters a terrible goaltending coach b/c he played a stand-up style is ridiculous. How many ‘elite’ coaches were elite players? I also find the comparison to MM lacking b/c, to my eye JDD is way more athletic and technically sound.

    Anyway, for me JDD has, for the moment at least, brought a sense of optimism to the Oilers goaltending carousel.

  46. Dennis says:

    That Bear fellow can sure hold a grudge, can’t he?

    If talking about Lowe fucking up dealing one of the most valuable assets was a phase, then so be it. But that fact that it hurts Rick so deeply tells me that perhaps someone was drinking more than Lowe’s Kool Aid.

    Hey Now!!!!

    ;)

    I remember years ago when I was More:) acerbic:) people would say they’d just gloss over my opinions and I thought that was shameful because there as some good stuff in there…haha.

    But maybe they did because right now I know I hardly read anything that comes from Traktor and maybe it’s because of the way he presents himself OR maybe it’s just because I’ve watched enough hockey and seen enough numbers-related opinion come through that I think it’s the worst kind of a hill that he’s prepared to die on.

  47. Coach pb9617 says:

    If Sam gets going again then the Oilers have a bonafide second line threat to run behind whoever the hell is on Hemsky’s line.

    Hemsky is the second line threat right now.

  48. rickibear says:

    Not a grudge Dennis.

    A difference of opinion.

    Traktor has his hill. You have yours(Pronger).

    It is one of the few issues I differ with you on.

    My comments are suppose to be toungue and cheek. Because I do respect your opinion.

    If you percieve them as grudge bearing vitrol, I am sorry.

  49. Dennis says:

    No sweat, Rick.

    I have mellowed in my older age. I am not as interested in digging up the bodies as I used to; even though I still know where they’re buried:)

  50. Dennis says:

    Did I miss something or did Matheson or Jones write any lengthy pieces about Glenn Anderson??

    I was expecting something with perhaps an old tidbit or two about the old days but I haven’t seen anything remotely like that. The Sun had a CP piece today linked on their site.

  51. HBomb says:

    Well MacIntyre must be out for awhile….the Oilers just claimed Jesse Boulerice off waivers from Carolina.

    Like it or not, they’re not fucking around in the toughness department this year, that’s for damn sure.

  52. mc79hockey says:

    (Sure your kids have an expanded vocabulary compliments of yoursite LT)

    Won’t SOMEBODY think of the children, etc.

    Why don’t names like Turco or Belfour get brought up? Both didn’t exactly tear a path to the NHL and ended up with pretty good NHL careers (at least until 2008 in Turco’s case ;)

    I don’t think that Turco’s NHL career has been THAT good. In any event, Turco went the college route, had two very good pro seasons and then made the NHL.

  53. nancy says:

    “Well MacIntyre must be out for awhile….the Oilers just claimed Jesse Boulerice off waivers from Carolina.”

    I thought Boulerice was playing for Lake Erie on an AHL contract? I had no idea he was in Carolina’s system.

  54. HBomb says:

    To use a math analogy, developing goalies is not exactly some sort of linear process with strong correlations.

    Outside of the fact that teams seem to have good “runs” of it, it’s a completely random thing at first glance. High picks bust, late rounders and undrafted guys win Vezinas.

  55. Dennis says:

    It was last year or perhaps the year before when I blurbed on Ty’s site about what the Oilers expected of JFJ after having demoted him AFTER he had dropped in the gloves in a game when all we’d heard from them was that was what they wanted from him.

    At the time I called it “Coming Back Boulerice” because I really wondered what it was the Oilers wanted from JFJ.

    And now we pick up the infamous Mr. Boulerice who’s been involved in high profile goonery since his days in Junior.

    I just happened to read the other day that the Avs released him — I saw it in a piece that also mentioned how they cut ties with Scott Parker because he refused to report to their minor league team — so I knew who was out there.

    So, why have the Oilers picked him up? Are they gonna bring him up to the big club and go back to a two goon system like they had with Zack and Mac? Or was Benson failing to do the job for the Falcons?

    Considering that there’s only a limited number of games Brule could play up here before he had to stay, and given the Oilers were content with going with two ruffians beforehand, I’ll see Jesse’s gonna be an Oiler for real.

  56. HBomb says:

    No truth to the rumor that Boulerice was immediately assigned by the Oilers to the Zombies of Division 9 Edmonton ball hockey….

    ….although, as Grabia would probably tell you all, we sure as shit could use that size up front.

  57. T. says:

    MacIntyre has a broken orbital bone. No way is he getting back in to play his one role with that.

    Boulerice? Really?

    Well, I hope they hold the line(s) as is for now and hold him in reserve until a game where he’s needed.

    Speaking of mangled faces: anyone see Phaneuf today? The eye is pretty ugly.

  58. HBomb says:


    Speaking of mangled faces: anyone see Phaneuf today? The eye is pretty ugly.

    Havlat managed to make Phaneuf uglier?

    Quite the feat, I must say…

  59. Coach pb9617 says:

    Subjective Claim:Well if you insist: MON, BUF, SJS, ANA, DAL, MIN, PIT, NYR, NYJ, NYI, FLA, CAR, NAS.

    So eliminate BUF and SJS because they were excluded in the question.

    The rest:
    MON – Ah yes, one that I forgot.
    ANA – They’ve developed one for sure in Bryzgalov and grabbed Gigeure after his development stint with the Flames and gave him a chance. Calgary had more to do with saving the career that Carolina hosed up than Anaheim did.
    DAL – Probably the most undderrated In the last 20 years, they’ve hit on Turco and Smith and whiffed on Bacashihua and Ellis. They gave up on Fernandez and Turek.
    MIN – As proven by goalies leaving, clearly this is a case of system guys.
    PIT – This claim is lunacy. They had no goaltending coach until two years ago! Destroyed Lalime and Hedberg and every other goalie that came into the system. Almost destroyed Fleury before finally hiring a goaltending coach. Prior to that they recycled old tenders from other teams. Pittsburgh has the exact opposite of a good track record in goaltending development. 1 for 100 is not a good record.
    NYR – Similar to Dallas, Vanbiesbrouck, Richter and Lundqvist is really nice . But they’ve also whiffed hard on Cloutier, Montoya, Labarbera, Holmqvist and Blackburn before his injury. Above average, for sure.
    NYJ – They’ve had one goaltender for 15 years. They had shitty goaltending before that, Burke included, and have never developed any other tender from the system. 1 for 100 again.
    NYI – The Islanders might draft a buttload of talent, but their development track record at ALL positions is nothing short of awful. If you count DiPietro, which I don’t know if everyone is sold on yet.
    FLA – Eh? Again, they are 1 for 100.
    CAR – 1 for 100 again. Prior to Ward, and dating all the way back to Hartford they recycled goalies from other organizations and really hosed up Gigeure. They somewhat rescued Burke but didn’t create much out of him.
    NAS – Another that I’ve forgotten.

    Objective reality: you struggle to understand track record and base your examples of personnel development on one-shot deals. Because an organization has developed ONE goalie does not mean that they are good at doing so or have a track record of doing so.

    Objective reality: In the entire NHL there are four organizations that are quite good at developing goaltending and there are two others that are average.

  60. Coach pb9617 says:

    Good for JDD….but we’ve been down this road the last two years even in the AHL. Plays well for a while at the beginning of the year then the wheels fall off. The only thing I find physically anguishing is neophyte HF types coming over here and wetting htemselves over the latest kid to play a decent game or two. A bunch of us came over here to escape that – but the rabble is spilling over here with their smack talk and ADD-style reasoning. Too bad.

    Dear lord. Suck it up and just admit you were wrong about last night and all of your crying and hand-wringing was really overwrought. Stop bringing all of this other stuff up as some sort of OJ defense.

  61. Bruce says:

    Did I miss something or did Matheson or Jones write any lengthy pieces about Glenn Anderson?? I was expecting something with perhaps an old tidbit or two about the old days but I haven’t seen anything remotely like that.

    Dennis: I don’t read the Sun, but Matty had a couple of pieces in the Journal the last few of days.

    And fwiw, I’m no Hall of Famer like Matty, but Andy was a personal favourite and I remember his time pretty well. Yesterday I recorded my first impressions from even before he was an Oiler. There’s one more to come that will hearken back to the glory years and Andy’s role in it, but that might not happen until January 18.

  62. Coach pb9617 says:

    Anaheim? Guiguere is on his third organization. Hartford and Calgary are the teams who “paid” for his training.

    Carolina? How is Carolina before Ward any different than the Oilers before (knock on wood) Deslauriers?

    Florida? Vokoun is on his third organization. Luongo was on his second organization. Who have they developed?

    Nashville? Wasn’t Ellis from the Dallas system? Vokoun was on his second organization? Who have they developed?

    New Jersey? Who did New Jersey develop other that Brodeur? One goaltender does not indicate a trend?

    Subjectivity is a bitch when you are digging out of a hole.

    It’s something that happens all of the time to fans. When the team is running well, they are the stuff and objective thoughts on personnel are out the door. When they are running bad, everyone else is so much better than the guys that you hate and you think have caused the bad run.

  63. Kris says:

    Dennis is good- surly, but good. I pay close attention to what he says.

    Traktor is bad, though he used to be quite good. Sorry Traktor. Your points about Horcoff were once interesting, but the way you keep repeating them in a condescending, increasingly irate way is becoming incredibly annoying. (Do you expect to convince anyone you’re right with this tack?) If you have some new point about Horcoff, please make it; after all, where Horcoff should play is a very interesting question. If not, we get it already.

    LT transcends good and bad. He is the alpha and the omega. He is who is.

    Boulerice is… oh no… he sucks…

  64. Bruce says:

    LT is the Stan Weir of the Oilogosphere.

  65. Dennis says:

    Bruce: thanks for those links; those are the kinds of stories I was thinking about and I don’t know how I missed them. Perhaps they weren’t listed on the main Journal sports page and they were just in the Oil Country section?

    Also, I don’t know Stan Weir personally but I doubt that man would support a Smid/Lupul Plus package for Pronger:)

    So, is Boulerice coming to the big club? 12′s in the doghouse right now but 46 seems like he’ll get to sleep indoors for awhile after seeing MacT’s comments about his “battle” with Orr. So, is Jesse coming up to be the 13th guy and just sit down for the most part? We have been going with a 13-7-3 set-up for most of the year.

  66. Dennis says:

    One last note: Brule with another goal today and three SOG.

  67. Kris says:

    If you can still cheer for Boulerice after watching the famous “hit” on Kesler, you’ve got issues:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhiJoUlThM

  68. Coach pb9617 says:

    Oh, the Horcoff discussion is moot. He has 2 EV points.

  69. Nelson88 says:

    MC. Far too many smart alec’s on these boards so this is not intended to be that type of question.

    Didn’t Turco play in the IHL and in those days was that a compareable league to the AHL or more of an ECHL league?

    And yes. I hate Dallas as every Oiler fan should so it is very much debateable how good a goalie Turco is ;)

  70. goldenchild says:

    Coach Hartford whiffed? Need i mention the name Peter Sidorkiewicz? played in an NHL all star game, sure it was as a member of the expansion Senators under te every team must be represented rule but an all star none the less.

    I don’t get the need of Boularice at this point maybe I am alone but if they had another NHL player or even a guy like brule I think you could run 4 pretty solid lines out there and it not matter much where you slot guys.

  71. Ribs says:

    I’m hoping no one realises any time soon that JDD snaps when you get him mad. He’s having a good start but I’m not convinced one of the heads can be lopped off just yet.

    Really, am I the only one who saw Souray and Vish purposefully passing to each other’s front foot so they would get the puck back and be the one to take the one-timer?

    I swear I’ve seen this as well. It may be a subconscious thing that will go away in time but I’d just as soon have Visnovsky realise that Souray can actually hit the net with his one-timers and become the designated pass/dump-in-corners man.

    Rumour has it that Marchant might get waived to take a run at Sundin. Thoughts as a 3C?

    Would certainly be a nice pickup. There’s likely no chance of him being passed up by lower teams.

    Fun game…

    The new Horcoff line looks super tough to play against. Bring on Detroit.

    The Hemsky-Gagner combo has been fun to watch. Gagner is amazing when it comes to puck support. It’s like he’s cycling anywhere and everywhere on the ice.
    Hemsky is still in “Shoot” mode and that can only bring good things. Does someone else play on this line? I mean umm.. good work Cap.

    Penner is looking a lot more imposing this year. He might not be getting the points he’s used to but I think he’s playing better hockey.
    Poo looked stronger tonight. I’m really impressed with his “try”. Even when he looks tired he still gets his skates moving in the right direction. I think the coach is liking this as well. He had some jitters with the puck this game but you have to think they will go away in time.
    It’s probably hard not to “try” with Cogliano skating with you. It’s only a matter of time for him to break out with some points. Look for it to happen once this line starts clicking.

    Brodziak was playing his limited minutes hard. I like having him and Stortini together for the energy they both bring.
    Nilsson has been the suck for the past few games. Did someone shoot his dog or something? He looks Nedvedian out there. Wake up!

    Souray, still awesome. I’m suprised he’s playing so well defensively with the ice time he’s been having as he tended to tire more easily in Montreal.

    Visnovsky is annoying to watch. I hate the mountain of giveaways and I hate hearing the crowd cheer every time he gets bowled over. I do like that he gets to the puck quickly and he does move it in the right directions when he does get it to go. His quickness is nice but it gets him into alot of trouble. Hopefully Huddy can settle him down a bit as the year goes on.

    1-0 in Shoot-outs! Whoo!

  72. Slipper says:

    How is it that Tittsburgh “destroyed” Patrick Lalime. A sixth round pick who’s played 400 reg season NHL games and put up excellent playoff numbers…

    What’s the term Lowetide uses when a prospect beats the curve for the position he was drafted?

    Am I missing something?

  73. rickibear says:

    “Won’t SOMEBODY think of the children, etc.”

    LT asked for no swearing in one of his comennets.
    I was an offender in the past. It has to be typed therefore it is not a slip.
    I choose to respect his wish.

    My new favorite line:
    Vick profited off the death of dogs, HMO’s profit off the death of children.

    Your a lawyer. I’m sure your have HMO stock in your portfolio. Michael Vick is the better person.

    I care about the children.

    Pissing match; toungue and cheek aside.

    My only concern right now:
    Can JDD sustain it right now.
    Can we win 6 of our next 8.

  74. Slipper says:

    If you can still cheer for Boulerice after watching the famous “hit” on Kesler, you’ve got issues

    I cheered for Messier throughout his entire career.

    So, if I was behooved to, I don’t see how it would be different if I decided to cheer for Boulerice, or Bertuzzi, or Gordie, or…

  75. Slipper says:

    If you value the lives of children over the lives of dogs.

    What in Hell are you talking about, though?

  76. Slipper says:

    Off topic question:

    Does Lowetide have to pay is moderators?

  77. mc79hockey says:

    What in Hell are you talking about, though?

    I didn’t understand that either. FWIW, since my “portfolio” is apparently now a topic of discussion, it consists largely of student loans and Red Sox stuff. Oh and an iPod. I intend to invest heavily in tobacco companies and the guys who make waterboarding equipment just as soon as I have some spare money though. As a lawyer (again, somehow relevant to the question at issue), I’m not comfortable with an investment unless it introduces misery to the lives of others.

  78. Slipper says:

    Only innocent people should have fair access to legal representation, and because of that all lawyers are unethical assholes.

  79. Asiaoil says:

    Every year JDD shows up for a stretch of games at the beginning of the year and the newbies rejoice….every year he reverts to mediocrity. He’s the goaltending version of Winchester – big, a bit of talent, but absolutely no drive and that’s what kills him every year. Plus once NHL teams get more film on him and see that glove hand and his technique….the numbers will tell the tale by mid-season. He is what he is and hasn’t suddenly changed from an average AHL goalie into a great NHL goalie over the summer.

    As for pointless arguments about how many team develop goalies and what you call development. Let’s just remember the real point is that EDM has not developed anyone since Grant Fuhr which was almost 30 years ago. That is fantastically bad and the coaching at the AHL and NHL level has been equally weak. That is the point – not what Buffalo has been doing – sheesh talk about missing the point.

  80. doritogrande says:

    Devan Dubnyk, 46 save shutout today. Think he’s got his consistency under wraps?

  81. spOILer says:

    Dawgbone has a nice analysis of JDD and a short history, for anyone actually more interested in JDD than the size of their peepee.

    He’s at After the Green Light, link in LT’s blogroll.

  82. Lowetide says:

    Jesus Christ. The Oilers are waterboarding their goalies?

    And LOOK at the results!!!

  83. Bruce says:

    Bruce: thanks for those links; those are the kinds of stories I was thinking about and I don’t know how I missed them. Perhaps they weren’t listed on the main Journal sports page and they were just in the Oil Country section?

    Dennis: No sweat. The one story was on today’s front page; the longer one was in the front and back of the sports section on Sunday.

    Btw, here’s a couple more from the Sun, one by Tychowski and one by Jones. The latter sheds just a little light on Andy’s frosty relationship with the MSM in this town.

  84. rickibear says:

    “FWIW, since my “portfolio” is apparently now a topic of discussion”

    Don’t care about your portfolio or that you are a lawyer.

    “it consists largely of student loans and Red Sox stuff.”

    “Red Sox stuff” Thats immoral!

    I’m not comfortable with an investment unless it introduces misery to the lives of others.”

    Thats funny. Nearly pissed myself.

    “Only innocent people should have fair access to legal representation, and because of that all lawyers are unethical assholes.”

    Lawyers are part of the political and legal proceess that tries to guarantee the rights of people.

    Insert all Lawyer jokes here.

    Off to watch That’s hockey. Makes me feel good about my superior oilogosphere trained mind.

  85. mc79hockey says:

    Knowing that Glenn Anderson feuded with Terry Jones makes me like him more.

  86. raventalon40 says:

    What do Todd Harvey and Stan Weir have in common?

    They both played for the Dundas Real McCoys!

  87. Bruce says:

    A day late and (still) a million dollars short, as I had to leave right after the HHoF stuff last night and still haven’t watched the end of the game on PVR. Some great comments on the GDT, including the following on the general subject of goaltending:

    JDD has talent but it’s always been the weak goals that kill him – and either that changes or he will not be a starter in this league. .. JDD will revert to form unless he’s a freak who is somehow much better in the NHL than in the AHL.

    Asia: Believe it or not you and I mostly agree on this. Where we had a (rare, for us) difference of opinion was on the appropriateness of MacT starting JDD last night. I thought and think that it was the right move; once the team committed to the one-way deal and the three-headed monster (which I really hate btw), the die was cast that JDD would get his shot when the circumstances warrant, and right now they do. And give the youngster credit, he rose to the occasion and by all accounts stole the two points.

    Chaos Goaltender?

    Ha! Great line, Slipper, and that’s what I’m seeing too. For now things are working out, the video reviews have been going in his favour, but JDD has technical issues that Asia mentioned above, that I mentioned in the Devils GDT, and that Dawgbone references in this outstanding post.

    Brian Boucher once posted five consecutive shutouts…

    Jonathan: That was one of the most out-of-the-blue hot streaks that I can ever remember. In the period 2002-06 Brian Boucher played 99 NHL games and posted a total of five shutouts. All other things being equal, the odds that all five would happen consecutively are five times longer than the odds of winning the 6/49.

    And since we’re talking obscure goaltenders, why doesn’t Craig Anderson get any love as a possible fill-in in NJ or NYI?

    Good question. It’s a small sample size — 5, 17, and 5 (so far) GP – but Anderson’s Sv% in Florida over the past two seasons plus have been an eye-popping .931, .935 and .938. Last game he stopped 44 shots is a 3-1 win over Anaheim, while last season he set an NHL record by stopping 53 shots in recording a shutout (previous record holders were Cujo 52 in an epic 0-0 OT tie in Detroit; and Terry Sawchuk 51 in a performance that was legendary when I started to watch the game). What stands out about Anderson other than his Sv% is the raw number of shots he faces: 32 per 60 in ’06-07, 34 in ’07-08, and 37 so far in ’08-09. (Yeah I know, it’s Florida, but Anderson has faced more rubber than his crease mates each year.) That suggests that there are technical issues in his game like rebound control and puckhandling which may leave a little to be desired. That said, the guy can stop the puck, which is certainly Job One.

    Oh, and in my explanation of goaltending, I forgot to mention that there are actually two sets of muscles needed to make saves: the agonists, that move the limb into place, and the antagonists, that apply the brakes to stop the limb in position. It really produces twice the workload you might expect.

    Doogie: So in the above debate between me and Asia, am I the agonist or the antagonist?

    This PP still sucks ass.

    Is that biomechanical jargon, or physiological? Sounds pretty learn-ed.

  88. Bruce says:

    Knowing that Glenn Anderson feuded with Terry Jones makes me like him more.

    MC: Yeah, Andy didn’t suffer fools gladly.

  89. Vic Ferrari says:

    On Craig Anderson:

    Never really looked at him, but RiversQ (or oilswell?) showed us years ago that if you’re a backup for a crap team you’re going to get peppered with pucks when you play. Because you’ll be playing the games that the team figures they are going to lose anyways.

    e.g. on the road in ANA.

    The opposite if you play for a good team. They play their backup against weak teams in “we can win anyways” fashion.

    And as slipper has pointed out, if you’re playing against a team that’s going to dominate you and keep you penned in your end of the rink all night, well at least you won’t be facing many, or any, breakaways and 2 on 1s.

    And surely that helps your EVsave% somewhat. How much? … more than nothing and less than a lot, but hard to say beyond that, but maybe we’ll get somewhere with that one day soon.

  90. Coach pb9617 says:

    How is it that Tittsburgh “destroyed” Patrick Lalime. A sixth round pick who’s played 400 reg season NHL games and put up excellent playoff numbers…

    Craig Patrick ruined him, pure and simple. They didn’t coach him through the minors and it showed. He gets the call up anyway and plays his balls off, again, without a coach. He carries the team and plays like a winner. Patrick crushes the kid in negotiations and he was done in Pittsburgh.

    Yes, he played great, in spite of the Penguins management and then they ruined the kid. To be fair, Patrick was at the height of his alcoholism at that point, so he may not remember doing it.

  91. Coach pb9617 says:

    As for pointless arguments about how many team develop goalies and what you call development. Let’s just remember the real point is that EDM has not developed anyone since Grant Fuhr which was almost 30 years ago. That is fantastically bad and the coaching at the AHL and NHL level has been equally weak. That is the point – not what Buffalo has been doing – sheesh talk about missing the point.

    You seem to have no point. Goaltending is a crapshoot. 12% of the league seems to have an idea of what they’re doing with goalies. The rest have no clue and recycle other assets until they hit one. But you’re pissed at your team because they’re as bad as the rest of the league.

  92. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach Hartford whiffed? Need i mention the name Peter Sidorkiewicz? played in an NHL all star game, sure it was as a member of the expansion Senators under te every team must be represented rule but an all star none the less.

    Ah dammit. Add one more team to the pantheon of tender developers.

  93. Bruce says:

    if you’re a backup for a crap team you’re going to get peppered with pucks when you play. Because you’ll be playing the games that the team figures they are going to lose anyways.

    e.g. on the road in ANA.

    … or JDD on the road in MSG?

    Btw — and it’s just one game of course so take this for the anecdote that it is — Anderson’s 53-save gem was against the fearsome New York Islanders.

  94. Vic Ferrari says:

    Having read through much of this, and having listened to enough sports talk radio today to realize than most of Oiler fandom thinks that JDD is the answer and Garon and Roloson should be sent down the river on a raft …

    I thought it was the right move to play JDD last night, though very possibly just because I don’t understand goalies. But there is no way in hell that I would bet against AsiaOil’s take here. Would you?

  95. Vic Ferrari says:

    Bruce:

    Exactly, just one game. But screw the forest Bruce, you keep telling us about specific trees.

    I get a lot of emails at timeonice, most of them good, though I don’t get around to responding to many at all. For the record: I cannot produce the same information for your son’s high school league in New Hampshire, and I am not interested in posting at your heavily advertised site for free.

    I’m sure that I got an email from The Contrarian Goaltender on this subject. Gold. He’s the guy from Brodeurisafraud, no? I knew I was wise to never read the comments there. And I’m sure he’s right and you’re wrong, but damn, that’s some interesting stuff. Bruce talking at other goalies, I can’t even imagine it. No offense dude, but there is going to be some mad shit there, if I ever manage to channel the patience of Job I’ll have a skim.

  96. Black Dog says:

    Good for the kid and four points out of NJ and NY is four points.

    But if they move a vet and put their eggs in this basket it could ruin the season, imo.

    I know little about goaltending but I hearing about plenty of red flags in terms of his style doesn’t calm my nerves.

    If he were an exception that would be terrific but I doubt it.

  97. Slipper says:

    Well, for the first time in a thousands years some no name goaltender on the Oilers come out of nowhere to steal a game for the Oilers.

    How amny times in the last ten years has it happened the other way around?

    I’m just gonna soak it in while it lasts.

  98. Bruce says:

    But there is no way in hell that I would bet against AsiaOil’s take here. Would you?

    Based on what I know right now today, no, I would not.

    JDD has a lot of strengths but his game is not very refined. I’m happy to ride the wave for as long as he’s hot, but I hold no delusions that he is The Answer. Let him prove his level of play over the longer term. To belabour an obvious point, he has earned some additional starts based on what he’s shown to this point. But for sure I wouldn’t be dispatching either of the vets just yet on the basis of a couple hot games.

    Exactly, just one game. But screw the forest Bruce, you keep telling us about specific trees.

    … and that differs from your example of one game in Anaheim how, exactly? For goodness sake, I don’t know how I could qualify that comment any more than I did. The whole Anderson in Florida sample consists of just 27 GP, so we can pretty much count those specific trees.

    He’s the guy from Brodeurisafraud, no? I knew I was wise to never read the comments there. And I’m sure he’s right and you’re wrong, but damn, that’s some interesting stuff.

    It has been an interesting and mostly civil discussion that has gone on (and off) for a few months. While I don’t doubt for a second that you think I’m wrong — it was ever thus — it’s somewhat ironic that a central plank of my position is a Ferrari staple, namely that some goalies (!) excel at “getting the puck moving in the right direction”, thus reducing the overall number of shots that they face. Poster boys include Turco, Belfour and of course Brodeur himself. But there is much more work to be done to prove, or otherwise, this hypothesis … if that is even possible.

« Older Comments

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca