Coyotes at Oilers, G45/08-09

This is Roberto Clemente. He played right field like a prison break. Vin Scully once said that “Clemente could field the ball in New York and throw out a guy in Pennsylvania” and he was only lying a little.

Bill James, the great baseball writer, gave a wonderful description of Clemente years ago: “I’ve been trying a little experiment, asking baseball fans that I meet who had the best throwing arm they ever saw. It’s very rare that anybody who is old enough to remember seeing him play doesn’t immediately say “Clemente.” For younger fans, you just can’t believe what it was like; I hope we see another one like it, or you’ll never believe that it was possible. His throws combined strength, accuracy and speed of release in whatever proportions were necessary to get the job done, Freddie Patek once told me he saw Clemente throw people out at the plate from the warning track at Forbes Field, over 350 feet away. I never saw him do that but I saw him grab a double in the gap and fire it to second base to make it an oops/single, when the entire transaction was so lightning fast that even having seen him do it four or five times, you still couldn’t believe it was possible.”

Glenn Anderson treated hockey’s neutral zone like Roberto Clemente played right field. To the point of pure physical violence, Glenn Anderson mashed everything in sight–defensemen, linesmen, sticks, pucks, goalies, nets and if the boards hadn’t been there he would probably have killed the zamboni. When Glenn Anderson was in full flight with the puck on his stick, you didn’t need to see the defenseman say “oh shit” to know he was in fact saying it.

Defend it? Hell, surviving it was the goal.

From the group who made up the Boys on the Bus, he’s the strange one, the personality who never really spent the time across the table so the folks could get to know him. Gretzky the nice guy, Messier the bull in a china shop, Kurri the thinking man’s player. Anderson? His personality on the ice was as colorful and electrifying as any other, but his off-ice indifference and wooden answers and live hits with television left fans with the feeling that Anderson never really bought in, never helped with the chores. That was a long time ago, and as with all families it doesn’t matter now what’s done is done. The important thing is that he’s back for a reunion and perhaps one final chance to bond in a real way with the people who watched him fly through the neutral zone like a hurricane.

They’re honoring Glenn Anderson tonight. Let’s all enjoy it.

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454 Responses to "Coyotes at Oilers, G45/08-09"

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  1. godot10 says:

    The nets were “immovable” objects in Anderson’s day. It took real courage to go to the net in those days with the ferocity and frequency that Anderson went to the net.

    Most players major counting numbers on a per game basis decrease during the playoffs. I believe Anderson’s actually tended to go up.

    The 1980 Canadian Olympic team, if not for bad luck, were essentially every bit as good as the American team. Anderson was the best player on that team (which also had Jim Nill and Dave Tippett) . If fortune had smiled on them instead of the Americans, that team would have been as famous as the Trail Smokeeasters.

  2. doritogrande says:

    “They’re honoring Glenn Anderson tonight. Let’s all enjoy it.”

    And all for the low, low price of $15.95.

    Pass.

  3. hunter1909 says:

    Anderson was one of my favorite ever Oilers, right after Paul Coffey.

    His body language should be used as a training aid for those imposters going out tonight against the Coyotes – just the way he would stand up straight near the goal, just LOOKING for the chance to get that puck on his stick…then…the game STOPPED. Just for a few hundredths of a second, while he figured out EXACTLY where to shoot the puck.

    Interesting point about those non moving nets back in the day. Fools these days who want to disregard the past players abilities need to try playing a game using the old style equipment. Comparatively, by those olden day’s standards today’s hockey is almost safe. That means a LOT when you’re driving towards the net.

    Anderson was a fucking genius and totally underrated by most non Oiler fans. Probably a lot closer to Rocket Richard than anyone wants to give him credit for being. He was nearly that good.

  4. Dennis says:

    There won’t be a dry anus in the house.

  5. andy grabia says:

    Vlad Guerrero, in his prime, had the best throwing arm I’ve ever seen. I never saw Clemente, sadly, but seeing Vladdy roam right field is probably as close as you can get.

  6. Coach pb9617 says:

    “I’ve been trying a little experiment, asking baseball fans that I meet who had the best throwing arm they ever saw. It’s very rare that anybody who is old enough to remember seeing him play doesn’t immediately say “Clemente.”

    Both of my grandfathers used to say the same thing and my dad continues to say it. The reaction is the same too, a “whoooo” and raised eyes of recognition. My grandfather saw most of the greats and says that Clemente’s arm was unbelievable. He used to get so upset when announcers would compare Larry Walker’s arm to Clemente.

    They all claim that this throw at 1:20, which is amazing, wasn’t that good – for Clemente. “Too high. Normally, he puts that on third base itself. He was a little older there though.”

  7. Dennis says:

    Thanks for that link, Coach.

    Walker was the most accurate that I can remember; he seemed to have an innate sense of where he was at all times out in RF and was amazingly fluid for a guy who didn’t play a lot of baseball growing up. Looking at that Clemente package I can see where the Vlad comparisons rang true. Roberte had a hitchy and wild swing and loped around the bases like our Vladdy.

    For as much as I loved Guerrero, he wasn’t always accurate though. After a few seasons teams would run on him going to home because for all the time he’d throw fast guys out by 15 feet, then he’d bounce one to the side that was impossible for the catcher to curtail in time to make the tag.

    As for Anderson, he Was the wildcard.

    It worked out quite well for those of us who cheered him.

  8. PunjabiOil says:

    The only memory I have of Anderson was of him playing with the Oilers in his 2nd stint (March 1996) and my first NHL game.

    It was the St. Louis blues in town (Gretzky played in that one) and the Oilers were pushing for a playoff spot. I believe Anderson scored in that game, as did Luke Richardson and Jason Arnott. Brett Hull scored 2 for the Blues, as they won that game. Those were they days of 17,000+ hockey fans in the building.

    That said, having not lived through the dynasty days in the first place, I couldn’t care less about these jersey retirements (other than Gretzky) or the 80′s players. In fact, you could make the case that I’m sick of the all attention that is devoted by the media to what they accomplished 20+ years ago. That said, I acknowledge many of those that lived through those days want to reminisce them, in order to feel better of the present situation.

    On a personal standpoint, my Oilers have accomplished very little since I began following them in the 1994 season. Kevin Lowe directly accounts for a large portion of such.

    It’s quite sad actually.

  9. andy grabia says:

    For anyone interested in learning more about Clemente, I highly recommend the biography by David Maraniss.

  10. Lowetide says:

    PJ Oil: We don’t remember those teams to feel better about the present, we remember them because they were inspiring and played the most exciting hockey imaginable.

    I understand that watching it now on tv looks like everything is going in slow motion, but in its time and place those Oilers v Bruins or Flames or Flyers classics were the best hockey I’d ever seen.

    That’s what we’re remembering. Something that had a major impact, like Secretariet or Frazier v Ali.

    The games we so good in their time they are a part of our collective memories.

  11. mc79hockey says:

    When I someday bother younger people with stories about baseball players, Guerrero will be at the absolute top of the list. I’m a sabr-y guy, so I know that there are other players who are more effective than him – Manny is undoubtedly a better player, career v. career – but I’ve never seen anything like Guerrero in terms of just watching baseball. Watching him make warmup tosses, the ball literally just seems to explode out of his hand. He’s a ridiculous looking guy, because his lower half is so large. I saw him hit a ball off Windows restaurant once in Toronto, just crushed it.

    He’s easily the most entertaining player I’ve ever seen.

  12. Lowetide says:

    You guys would have loved Manny Sanguillen then.

  13. mc79hockey says:

    PJO -

    Am I missing something about this “It’s quite sad actually” bit? Is it a reference to something?

    As far as Andy’s retirement goes, I’m not an old man like Dennis, so it doesn’t mean too much to me. I just hope that, when the time comes, the lack of five Cups isn’t held against our man Smyth.

  14. PunjabiOil says:

    Fair enough Lowetide. That was probably the wrong sentiment on my part.

  15. PunjabiOil says:


    Am I missing something about this “It’s quite sad actually” bit? Is it a reference to something?

    Nahh…just my new shtick. Eventually, I’ll get bored of it.

    On that note, the shtick is quite sad, actually.

  16. St George says:

    Hey Dennis – grow up. There are lots of other places on the web for puerile adolescents.

  17. Lowetide says:

    I thought Dennis first post was pretty funny. I mean, we can joke, right?

    PJ Oil: It’s all good. And sad too, actually.

    MC: Smyth won’t get in. He’s your Amos Otis. My Amos Otis is Mark Howe.

  18. PunjabiOil says:

    “Rumours” are floating that Hemsky might be back tonight.

  19. PunjabiOil says:

    LINEUP UPDATE: Ales Hemsky will make his return to the Oilers lineup and take his place on the top line alongside Shawn Horcoff and Dustin Penner… Liam Reddox moves to the second line to play on the left side with Sam Gagner and Erik Cole… Potulny draws out with Brule on the fourth line with Brodziak and MacIntyre… Dwayne Roloson gets the start in goal.

    Potulny has been playing well, shooting the puck every time it touches his stick. Not a fan of drawing him out, so we can see MacIntyre for 3 minutes.

  20. Lowetide says:

    PLease God let him be ready. I can see it now:

    Lowe: “How you feeling, sport?”

    Hemsky: “I’m not ready yet. I still drool when speaking and vomit when I tie my shoes.”

    Lowe: “Glenn Anderson played with a broken left fabu-orta one time, scored 5 goals and decked the other team’s coach. Oh well.”

    Hemsky: “I’ll give it a try.”

  21. mc79hockey says:

    MC: Smyth won’t get in. He’s your Amos Otis. My Amos Otis is Mark Howe.

    Oh, I know he’s not going to the Hall of Fame. Their standards are screwed beyond all repair. The 63-64 Maple Leafs have something like ten guys in the Hall.

    At some point down the road though, there will be a discussion about whether his number should be retired in Edmonton. He won’t have five Cups here, probably just the one or two that they’ll win after his contract in Colorado runs out and he returns, but, if that’s held against him, I think that there will be an honest to goodness legitimate gripe about the degree to which the Oilers focus on the 80′s.

    Of course, according to Matty today, the Oilers are now third all-time in retiring numbers, so it’s hard to think that they can keep going like this.

  22. dstaples says:

    Ellis Valentine. An billion dollar cannon attached to a 50 cent attitude.

  23. Lowetide says:

    I also wouldn’t leave out the possibility of a Smyth return. Not in an impact way but in a Rusty Staub has returned to pinch hit way.

    Oilers always do that stuff, and the Smyth divorce is still painful for a lot of fans.

  24. PunjabiOil says:

    My favorite Hemsky quote was back in the 2006-2007 season. The Oilers were eliminated from the playoffs, so all games were meaningless. Hemsky was coming off an injury, and could have sat out for the season, but decided to come back and play. When asked why he’s coming back for meaningless games, he acknowledged:

    “It’s hockey, you know. It’s fun, you know”

    Not exactly Shakespearean with words, but amusing nontheless.

  25. rickibear says:

    //Potulny has been playing well, shooting the puck every time it touches his stick. Not a fan of drawing him out, so we can see MacIntyre for 3 minutes.//

    Sit the captain

  26. doritogrande says:

    “Lowe: “How you feeling, sport?”

    Hemsky: “I’m not ready yet. I still drool when speaking and vomit when I tie my shoes.”

    Lowe: “Glenn Anderson played with a broken left fabu-orta one time, scored 5 goals and decked the other team’s coach. Oh well.”

    Hemsky: “I’ll give it a try.”"

    The name is Tambellini LT. Tambellini.

  27. Jonathan says:

    Tyler’s too modest to mention it, but he did an outstanding comparison of Glenn Anderson to some other players the other day, notably Smyth.

    Do check it out.

  28. Traktor says:

    I’m a big fan of Guerrero as well – definitely a fun guy to watch. I think Griffey is my all-time favorite hitter though. I’m more into the pitchers myself with Tim Lincecum at the top of the list. Fucking JP could of had him for Rios +.

    Tonight has the makings of an absolute snooze-fest. We’ll probably come out flatter than Ally McBeal so it will be up to Roli to keep us in it.

    Ben Scrivens, Alberta boy that’s playing goal for Cornell.

    2006/2007: 2.30GA .911SV%

    2007/2008: 2.02GA .930SV%

    2008/2009: 1.27GA .952SV%

    He is 22 and hasn’t been drafted.

    Scrivens should be at the top of the list of potential targets this summer.

  29. PunjabiOil says:

    http://ykoil.blogspot.com/

    He just added a series of first-rate posts. Check it out.

  30. Doogie2K says:

    Probably a lot closer to Rocket Richard than anyone wants to give him credit for being. He was nearly that good.

    Actually, he was likened to that very man by, I believe, Kevin Lowe, when the retirement was announced.

    Of course, according to Matty today, the Oilers are now third all-time in retiring numbers, so it’s hard to think that they can keep going like this.

    I’m looking forward to April 4, 2010 when the Oilers retire Kevin Lowe’s number against the Coyotes. (Oh, wait, it’s only the Habs that do that number-matching thing.) But seriously, as a follower of the Habs and Oilers, #1 and 3 on the list, I do sometimes wonder if the number-retirement thing has gotten a bit diluted lately. But then again, who would you say no to on either team? Dickie Moore? Bob Gainey? Glenn Anderson? Hell, I’m surprised they didn’t try to retire #6 for Toe Blake at some point.

    I also wouldn’t leave out the possibility of a Smyth return. Not in an impact way but in a Rusty Staub has returned to pinch hit way.

    Why not? If Lowe, McSorely, and Anderson can do it, and Messier could have if he’d wanted (didn’t I read that the Oilers had offered him a sunset deal in ’05?), surely Smyth can come back to bounce a couple more pucks off his spleen and into the net when he’s 36.

  31. mc79hockey says:

    But then again, who would you say no to on either team? Dickie Moore? Bob Gainey? Glenn Anderson? Hell, I’m surprised they didn’t try to retire #6 for Toe Blake at some point.

    That’s why it’s hard to be too critical. If you look at the THN Top 100 players ever, you have:

    Gretzky – #1
    Messier – #12
    Coffey – #28
    Kurri – #50
    Fuhr – #70

    Andy and Al Hamilton don’t make the list. The problem, really, is that the HHOF is so promiscuous that if you’re going to tie number retirements to enshrinements, you’re gong to end up with a lot of numbers retired.

    I’ll be interested to see what happens once they start wading through the guys from the nineties. I’d think that the HHOF will start making better picks because there aren’t any real dynasties from which you can enshrine six guys.

  32. Doogie2K says:

    Andy and Al Hamilton don’t make the list. The problem, really, is that the HHOF is so promiscuous that if you’re going to tie number retirements to enshrinements, you’re gong to end up with a lot of numbers retired.

    Exactly. If the Habs retired every number of a Hall of Famer, even accounting for duplicates (#1, #4, #12, #16 off the top of my head), they’re going to be running out a football team, because there’ll be four numbers left under 30.

    I also hadn’t even thought of Al Hamilton, who probably gets a pass because he was of a different era (WHA stalwart). In that sense, I can see Smyth’s retirement being justified under a similar clause, though you’re still going to get all kinds of questions about it when the time comes, especially given how he was slew-footed on the way out of town.

  33. HBomb says:

    I think we see one more number retired by the Oilers, and then no others for a long time. #4, whenever he leaves the organization, because they won’t do it (or at least shouldn’t) as long as he has a job.

    HHOF or not, it would be based on historical significance.

    As for the game tonight, glad to see Hemsky’s back. Potulny sitting instead of MacIntyre doesn’t impress me, but it will be nothing compared to when Nilsson and Pouliot get back and Ethan “Worst Oiler Captain not named Corson” Moreau is somehow still in the top 9F.

  34. Dennis says:

    St. George: that’s a funny joke, dude. Seriously. It plays on the “not a dry eye” premise.

    D2K: you pick my birthday as the date to retire Lowe’s jersey? Really?

    Ty: speaking of birthdays, there’s like 3 or 4 years between us and we’re both in our 30′s so age no longer matters. You can tell yourself that it does if it makes you feel better, though;)

    LT: Nice one:) I, too, are worried that 83′s coming back too early. Hey, maybe I’m being too worrisome about the whole matter but it’s two games before the break and if he didn’t go for those two then he’s getting another eight days of game-less rest. I think something like that might matter but let’s hope he’s well.

    All: it makes zero sense not to let 21 stay with 89-26. If you want to find a place for 85, let him take over on the 4th line LW with 51-67.

    I have defended MacT on a lot of things but Young 21′s 4/1 in terms of true plus/minus and his Corsi’s a whopping 17.9

    Fuck yeah it’s a small sample size but it’s a damn fine enough start to stay in the lineup.

    I just don’t know anymore.

  35. Bruce says:

    Roberto Clemente had the greatest throwing arm I’ve ever seen. Didn’t see it often enough, they used to only show Game of the Week and the World Series back in the day, and the Pirates just made the Series in ’71 when Roberto stole the show as an old man. (Thanks Coach for that link.) They also showed the All-Star Game of course, and every spring you oculd write the National League’s starting outfield in pen: Hank Aaron in left, Willie Mays in centre, Roberto Clemente in right. This during a time that “coloureds” were still making inroads in the game, but these great ballplayers and ambassadors of the sport certainly sped that process along.

    One All-Star game I remember the announcer saying that somebody made some sort of challenge or bet to Clemente, so he went out to the warning track in right centre right in front of the distance sign, which was 375 feet or some such, from which he threw five (out of five) strikes to home plate. None of them bounced, and all of them were “in the strike zone”. Maybe that was a little hyperbole or expanded for the purpose, but both announcers had seen it and they were ga-ga so I don’t think they were exaggerating very much.

    Clemente posted an amazing 263 outfield assists in his career, topping out at 27 (twenty-seven) in 1961. He led the NL in this category 5 different seasons. And that doesn’t begin to account for all the oops-singles as most sane base-runners learned never to challenge his arm. Not sure if such stats can be found, but I’ll bet fewer runners went from first to third on a single to right against the Clemente-era Pirates than pretty much any team in the history of baseball. He won the Gold Glove the last 12 seasons of his career.

    Modern players who had an arm strong enough to evoke a reference to Clemente have been mentioned above, including no fewer than three Montreal Expos (Valentine, Walker, Guerrero). Throw in Rusty Staub who didn’t have such an arm but was a great right fielder, and the Expos had that position covered for most of their history.

    As a batter Clemente never saw a strike he didn’t want to swing at, and didn’t walk often enough to be a sabermetrician’s dream player. (Career BA .317, OBP .359) He wasn’t really a protypical power hitter, usually hitting 15-20 dingers a season, but could turn on a pitch especially if the situation was right (two out, bases empty). He hit vicious line drives all over the park, with lots of extra-base hits including double digit triples in 9 different seasons. Many pitchers were terrfied of him; one who wasn’t, Bob Gibson, had his leg broken by a wicked liner off of Clemente’s lively bat.

    Clemente reached the 3000-hit plateau on the last day of the 1972 season. It didn’t seem to matter much at the time, at age 37 surely he would carry on for a number of years and challenge Stan Musial’s then NL record of 3630 hits. Tragically, however, Clemente died in a plane crash on Dec 31, 1972, while on a humanitarian mission delivering relief supplies to earthquake victims in Guatemala.

  36. Bruce says:

    That said, Rusty Staub did have an excellent arm too (51 outfield assists in just 3 years in Montreal), it just didn’t quite qualify as a “cannon”. Mind you, he was being directly compared to Clemente who was still active during the time “Le Grand Orange” patrolled right field in Jarry Park. I probably sold Rusty short in the above comment.Truth was, all four of those four Expos had great arms; but none of them was Clemente.

  37. Black Dog says:

    Hiya, Kate says hello.

    Anderson belongs in the pantheon for sure. When he was elected to the Hall my remark was that back in the day there was no separation between him and the other Gretzkys – he was right there with Messier, Kurri and Coffey.

    Great great player. Who is the poor guy who has to take the stick in the face in the tribute?

  38. Coach pb9617 says:

    Potulny draws out with Brule on the fourth line with Brodziak and MacIntyre…

    That’s Maple Leafs stupid. Potulny has to clear waivers no matter what. Brule still has limited games.

  39. dubya says:

    DGL: http://www.atdhe.net will likely be streaming the game. Decent picture, too.

    I can’t believe Reddox is being moved to the second line in place of Potulny. What does MacT have against effective lines? Move Reddox to the 4th and Brule to the PB, FFS. Man, I’ve generally been a MacT guy but he’s completely lost me this year.

  40. dubya says:

    That DGL should be DG, as in Doritogrande…

  41. Ribs says:

    Here’s hoping Cole can honour Anderson tonight by scoring a couple off of his one man rushes.

  42. HBomb says:

    I can’t believe Reddox is being moved to the second line in place of Potulny. What does MacT have against effective lines? Move Reddox to the 4th and Brule to the PB, FFS. Man, I’ve generally been a MacT guy but he’s completely lost me this year.

    Yet when Hemsky went down, in order to not bust up effective lines, Reddox simply slid into the 1RW spot. Apparently this only works one way.

    Liam Reddox is officially the new Toby Petersen. An NHL depth player without question, but one who is getting WAY too favorable treatment from MacT right now. Breaking up the Potulny-Gagner-Cole combination at this point is just plain stupid.

    MacT’s gotta go….this sort of stupidity cannot continue.

  43. Tyler says:

    Ty: speaking of birthdays, there’s like 3 or 4 years between us and we’re both in our 30′s so age no longer matters. You can tell yourself that it does if it makes you feel better, though;)

    You sir, may be in your thirties, but I’m only 29. I’ve got, like, eight months before I need to worry about being 30.

  44. Tyler says:

    Re: Clemente – his career arc is an interesting one. If Baseball Prospectus was publishing in 1959, they would not have been particularly impressed with him. It looks like he’d played about 550 games at that point and he didn’t look like much. From then on though, wow. The lack of power can probably be attributed to it being the 60′s. He had a pretty fantastic late career though. Guys like that are interesting – Williams is another.

  45. Coach pb9617 says:

    You sir, may be in your thirties, but I’m only 29. I’ve got, like, eight months before I need to worry about being 30.

    And then life diverges. Physical breakdowns are tempered by experience and knowledge. Which is awesome, apparently, until you turn 70 and then everything goes to hell.

  46. Coach pb9617 says:

    Liam Reddox is officially the new Toby Petersen. An NHL depth player without question, but one who is getting WAY too favorable treatment from MacT right now. Breaking up the Potulny-Gagner-Cole combination at this point is just plain stupid.

    It’s not that big of a deal. He trusts Reddox on the ice – he showed that by giving him shifts with one goal leads in the last five minutes. If Reddox keeps his head down and stays in front, where’s he been lately, the line will still work. He is a much better skater than Potulny.

    It’s more annoying that they’re blowing a game of Brule’s eligibility right now. Potulny should draw in and Brule should be sent to the A right away.

  47. Bruce says:

    And all for the low, low price of $15.95.

    In Anderson’s rookie season, I used to pay $10.50 a game for my seat in the lower bowl.

    The team was a tad more entertaining in those days, too. Anderson’s fellow rookies included now-fellow-Hall-of-Famers Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri, as well as knocking-on-the-door Andy Moog. The “veterans” included teenagers Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier.

    I agree entirely with Black Dog that there was very little to choose among the non-Gretzkys in the Big 5, that Anderson was every bit as good as the others. Make that, every bit as Great.

    So tonight I will break my personal “No PPV” rule for just the second time (the other being the Messier sweater retirement at MSG), cuz for this old dog these tributes are personal. For my wife too; she was/is an even bigger Anderson fan than me, which is saying a lot. So we’ll be tuning out my Pittsburgh Steelers in the AFC championship game to watch.

  48. Lowetide says:

    MC: The Dodgers did everything they could to hide him. EVERYTHING. Didn’t play him, listed him as a pitcher. Probably the best Rule 5 player in MLB history.

  49. Traktor says:

    The funny thing is one of the first things Steve Tambellini said after being hired was that there would be no more jamming square pegs through round holes – if a top 6 player went down then a top 6 prospect would fill in and same thing if a bottom 6 player goes down.

    Sure enough Reddox is getting all the opportunities and Brule is rotting on the 4th line.

    Schremp and Potulny both put up 3 points in 4 games and they’re quickly exiled out of the lineup.

    Only MacT…

  50. Coach pb9617 says:

    Branch Rickey, with the Dodgers at the time, is responsible for bringing Clemente in and is the guy who first stated the axiom “Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late.” He brought Clemente to the Pirates when O’Malley forced him out of ownership of the Dodgers. He built the team that beat the Yanks in 60.

    He built a farm system out of ashes and every other team in the league copied it. Either extremely lucky or very talented, that guy was. Signs Jackie Robinson, finds Clemente, builds the farm system.

    Great name, too. Branch. Tie that to my baseball heroes Dorrel and Nolan and you’ve got a family of farmboys or hall-of-famers.

  51. HBomb says:

    The obvious thing to do with the lineup, IMO, is either send Brule down and keep him in the AHL until they open up a permanent roster spot, or sit out MacIntyre tonight and roll something like this:

    Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Potulny-Gagner-Cole
    Moreau-Pouliot-Cogliano
    Brule-Brodziak-Reddox

    That would at least make SOME sense…..having Moreau in the top nine is bad enough, but Reddox in the top SIX? Come on….

  52. Traktor says:

    Cogliano playing with Moreau is a crime.

  53. Ender says:

    I might be wrong on this due to the whole mysterious CBA and all, but IIRC Brule was called up as an emergency for injury which didn’t affect his games before waiving, avoiding a suspension in the process. Yes, he was finally sent back down to serve that suspension, but was then immediately recalled. Any chance he and Potulny both have that status at the moment, and they need to get sent down in the order they were pulled up? Are they both exempt from this now?

  54. HBomb says:

    Anyone with actual skill playing with Moreau is a crime.

    Fixed it for ya Traktor.

    Guy should be on the 4th line once everyone is healthy.

    Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Nilsson-Gagner-Cole
    Cogliano-Pouliot-Pisani
    Moreau-Brodziak-Reddox

    Potulny as the 13th, MacIntyre as the “muscle”, Brule back in the AHL until they can open him up a spot on the roster.

    This team has a bit of depth when everyone’s healthy. Center is still a sore spot though – another veteran would be nice.

  55. hunter1909 says:

    Punjabi: Exactly how many Oilers jerseys have been retired from the dynasty? Five? Six?

    What your saying in effect is, you hate the dynasty team because you follow a loser, and don’t feel like hearing about the dynasty.

    For fans who do remember the greatest club team in living memory(sorry 1970′s Habs fans), Anderson was a great hockey player. Think Ryan Smyth with Andrew Cogliano speed, and clinical finishing(sadly no current Oiler possess this quality to compare, lol. Oh yeah , he was one mean son of a bitch also.

    Sucks in some ways that you never saw the great Oilers, but, on the other hand you are young so maybe Lowe and MacTavish will get you another one to cheer for. I doubt this, so, I’ll keep living in the past, due to the current ongoing success famine.

    Still, I hear you.

  56. Schitzo says:

    That’s Maple Leafs stupid. Potulny has to clear waivers no matter what. Brule still has limited games.

    Potunly has 10 games / 30 days before he has to clear waivers. After you clear once in a season you get a limited window before you have to clear a second time.

    That said, eating up Brule’s waiver status is stupid.

  57. Traktor says:

    Moreau on the 4th line makes so much sense it hurts my brain.

    I classify not ever putting Moreau on the 4th line in the same dumbness category as questioning everyone expect the ex boyfriend of a murdered women.

    It’s basically so incompetent that there must be some kind of motives because such ineptness is almost unfathomable.

  58. hunter1909 says:

    I remember going to a Habs game a few seasons ago and was awed by their retired jersey numbers.

    I think there were only 8 of them, but boy oh boy Richard, Lafleur, Beliveau, Morenz, and the others made you realise just how great this franchise really is. Simply because of how many other great players were not included.

    Now the Habs are going the same dumb way, and retiring lesser lights, which for the purist in me seems kind of a dilution.

    Fuck Ryan Smyth. Ditto Kevin Lowe. Good, but not quite good enough.

  59. Lowetide says:

    I think Reddox is playing because the coach trusts him. He may not be flashy and we don’t know he’ll be a scorer but we also don’t know that he won’t.

    The fact that Liam Reddox is getting at-bats this season when there are other options is fascinating to me too, but in a good way.

    We’re watching a guy who may have a pretty solid career picking up some traction. He’ll need to add offense eventually but he always has at other levels and it isn’t like he’s the worst player on the team.

    DESJARDINS EV-60 (5×5):

    Hemsky 2.03
    Penner 1.88
    Cogliano 1.60
    Moreau 1.58
    Cole 1.54
    Gagner 1.53
    Reddox 1.50
    Pouliot 1.48
    Horcoff 1.33
    Pisani 1.32
    Brodziak 1.31
    MacIntyre 1.26
    Stortini 1.04
    Nilsson 0.73

    And the real star appears to be Brule (not listed above as he’s played on 9 games) currently sitting at 2.04.

  60. HBomb says:

    Someone want to refresh me as to where the lines in the sand are for EV Points/60?

    I know 2.00 is one of them, but I can’t remember if that’s the line that defines “pretty good” or “outright elite”…..

    And yes, Brule’s got some nice skills. You can see why he was a 6th overall pick. Short-term, I hated the Torres trade (moreso after Glencross walked), but long term, it could end up being like Salo-for-Gilbert.

  61. hunter1909 says:

    That Brule goal the other night was outstanding. Flying in at full speed, stickhandles right in front of the goalie and bang.

    I might not have the NHL coaching credentials of pope Craig I, but Brule is a player I’d be trying to create offence with.

    Then again, I’m still a Schremp fan.

  62. Showerhead says:

    Wow, just showed up to this gameday post and decided to read through it. Just wanted to point out that there are a lot of interesting posts for anyone who is also showing up and thinking about skimming.

    Before I head out, forgive me please but what is an outfield assist? Just based on the name I’m going to guess that you have an OF (is this acceptable acronyming) who throws it in to say, a 2B or SS (two in a row, look at me go) and then they relay it somewhere to get an out? And yes, I know I could look this up but I like the guessing :)

  63. HBomb says:

    Meanwhile, in the NFL….I’m starting to think Larry Fitzgerald is the best receiver I’ve watched since Jerry Rice. Seriously.

    3 TD’s and it’s not even half-time. 21-6 Cardinals. The idea of THAT team in the Super Bowl is something I’m still trying to wrap my head around.

    Meanwhile, somewhere, Grabia is currently sad.

  64. Lowetide says:

    Showerhead: OF assists are any play that result in an out in which the fielder in question makes a throw. If a runner on third tags up on the sac fly and the OF throws him out at home the play would be:

    1. Putout (the sac fly)
    2. Assist

    So too if the OF hits the cutoff man at SS and the SS throws home the play is:

    PO-catcher
    Assists: SS, OF

  65. Traktor says:

    What a play call on 1st and goal. Gutsy.

  66. Lowetide says:

    2.00 is a quality number but it all has to be placed in context. Horcoff for example has been running up a mountain so anything north of Nilsson is good.

    And Nilsson is in danger of losing his NHL job and it is reflected by Desjardins.

    As an Eagles fan, I can only watch in awe as Fitzgerald beats us every which way. I assume he’ll hit Andy Reid by accident and deflate him by halftime.

  67. Traktor says:

    Event Date Event Selections Odds E/W Terms Result
    1 01/18/2009 PHL Eagles @ ARZ Cardinals
    (Money Line) ARZ Cardinals +150 None To Run
    Risk: 15.00 To Win: 22.50 Returns:

    You know I’m in on those Cards.

    I thought the 1/1 rule in the AHL tells us Reddox won’t be a scorer.

  68. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: The 1/1 rule applies to 20-year olds in the AHL, Reddox was in the ECHL that season.

    And by “scorer” I mean a guy who can put up enough offense to survive in the NHL while doing a bunch of little things to stay in the league.

  69. HBomb says:

    I’ve got a soft spot for the Cardinals. The uniform color reminds me of my team, the 49ers, when they were good.

    And Fitzgerald reminds me or Rice, my favorite player of all time.

    The Tampa Bay Rays making the World Series would pale in comparison to the Cardinals making the Super Bowl.

  70. Showerhead says:

    LT: Hey, if baseball is a game that measures “put outs” or hey we could governors general it and call them “puts out” then it’s alright by me.

    In the case where the SS and OF both get assists, are they worth the same? I don’t know the intricacies of baseball from those of say cricket but I wonder if the outfielder’s play is harder in that situation.

  71. HBomb says:

    The other impressive part about Arizona? Their #2 wideout, Boldin, is probably the #1 receiver on at least 2 dozen other NFL teams.

    Kurt Warner has a perfect passer rating so far this game. No surprise.

    With that, Boldin almost makes a circus catch off a deflection. Trapped ball, but it’s impressive that he ALMOST pulled it off.

    Oh, and I’m rooting for Pittsburgh in the AFC. They’ve looked like the team to beat since mid-season, with their ability to win close games.

  72. Traktor says:

    True, he wasn’t in the AHL at 20.

    But wouldn’t not reaching the 1/1 as a 21 year old hold even more weight?

  73. dave says:

    The complaints on Reddox right now are kinda funny. Not sure coined in the last couple of games ” I’ve got all day for Reddox” A little
    4th line urgency is nice to have throughout all your lines. And the arguement has been made that e have lacked that. Players that can bring that consistently, without bringing down the talent level, without taking alot of penalties are rare.

  74. speeds says:

    stat I didn’t know until checking things out today:

    Roloson 0.915
    Kiprusoff 0.903

  75. Lowetide says:

    Assists are in fact equal in baseball. They are extremely useful for OF’s and SS’s in finding out how good they really are defensively (range factor).

    Traktor: Yes, but Reddox isn’t Schremp. He can make himself useful in other areas and that’s my point. Although a player like Rob Schremp has more skill than Reddox if I had to bet which guy ends up playing more NHL games it’d be Reddox.

    And by an ever increasing margin.

    Speaking of which. The Cardinals? I remember when the played in the NFC East and were the only sure win on the schedule for my Eagles.

    Who was that old timey QB? Jim Hart? Was that his name? Call the man, I’d like his reaction.

  76. Traktor says:

    Roloson 13 wins
    Kiprusoff 27 wins

  77. dave says:

    didn’t appreciate that one Dennis. And LT… I always find it fascinating what people find as acceptable humor. A while back the use of retard was considered unacceptable. Obviously it is your blog LT I think you guys are smart hockey people. Sorry to hijack but wow…

  78. Tyler says:

    I agree with Traktor, Roloson should score more goals and prevent more shots.

  79. Lowetide says:

    Dave: Have at it, buddy. Your job as an internet policeman begins….NOW!!!!

  80. speeds says:

    He should also have appeared in 15 more games.

  81. Lowetide says:

    Roloson would have more goals if MacT hadn’t lost the room.

  82. Traktor says:

    “Yes, but Reddox isn’t Schremp. He can make himself useful in other areas and that’s my point.”

    Lowetide: I called Reddox a lock to be an NHLer in your top 20. I think he’s a 10 year NHL pro. The fact that I don’t see a future top 6er doesn’t mean he’s not useful.

  83. hunter1909 says:

    Roloson plays the perfect style for post-lockout Oilers hockey.

    Post-lockout Oilers hockey – Just as careless defensively as the Gretzky Oilers, but without all of that bothersome offence.

  84. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: You run the best blog ever.

    Seriously.

  85. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: At this point I think we’re kind of arguing the same point.

    In the Reddox piece in the top 20 you wrote “I think Reddox is a lock to be an NHL player but I don’t see the upside that would warrant him such a high place on the prospect scale. Undersized grinders aren’t in huge demand around the league.”

    I wrote “He’s a gritty player with an edge, but he’s also 5-10, 180 (Oilers site). When he goes into those traffic areas or is working for possession along the boards, Reddox is undersized and probably not the strongest man in the scrum. He has some good hands but his EV/60 (0.83) and the number of chances he’s getting speak to his dwindling ice time and his Corsi (-19.8, 3rd worst among forwards who’ve played 9 games or more and going the wrong way fast) suggests a trip to the farm to reload on confidence might be a plan.”

  86. Tyler says:

    Good point LT. Roli had 11 points entering this season but has produced absolutely nothing since LT lost the room.

  87. Lowetide says:

    I lost the room? Me? Seriously. I LOST THE ROOM?

  88. Ribs says:

    Fire LT!!

  89. Lowetide says:

    This is quite sad, actually.

  90. PunjabiOil says:

    This is quite sad, actually.

    LOL. I nearly choked on my black berries.

  91. hunter1909 says:

    Punjabi: If it makes you feel any better Oilers game 6 SC final win in 2006 compares with anything I saw in 1990.

    Only back then you KNEW you had won the final, as soon as you heard they were only meeting Boston.

  92. PunjabiOil says:

    From the 2006 Cup run, the G5 overtime winner was probably my best memory of the Oilers.

    The SJ Sharks series was the best playoff round.

  93. quain says:

    Roloson would have more goals if MacT hadn’t lost the room.

    Did you see him go for the empty net goal a few games ago? In clear defiance of MacT’s grinding, low-risk style? It’s clear he can’t coach in this league anymore whenever even a stalwart like Roloson is defying his edicts.

  94. Tyler says:

    I’m following the football game on NFL.com and I have no idea what this means on the kickoff following the Eagles TD:

    ” PHI35 D.Akers kicks -33 yards from PHI 35 to PHI 2, out of bounds.”

    It certainly doesn’t sound good.

  95. Traktor says:

    JDD is the big point producer.

    Wasn’t he tied with Horcoff in EV points earlier in the year?

  96. Coach pb9617 says:

    didn’t appreciate that one Dennis. And LT… I always find it fascinating what people find as acceptable humor. A while back the use of retard was considered unacceptable. Obviously it is your blog LT I think you guys are smart hockey people. Sorry to hijack but wow…

    Around here, it’s what we call “country humor”. Everyone in the country knows a retarded kid, so you can’t make fun of them. But no one in the country knows a gay guy, so ragging on them is acceptable.

    Obviously, LT is from the country, hence his hidden manlove of Smid, which manifests itself through hate.

  97. hunter1909 says:

    I hear everyone’s frustration with the current team.

    Anyway, I hear they have this kid named J.F. Jacques coming up from the AHL, a point per game player. 220 pounds and hits like an express train.

    Does anyone know about this guy? Sounds like just what the Oilers could use for that annual playoff drive.

  98. Coach pb9617 says:

    This is quite sad, actually

    That was almost as good as Moreau thinking it was a faceoff and trying to wave Souray out.

  99. hunter1909 says:

    coach pb9617 – We’ve all seen Deliverance, coach.

  100. Traktor says:

    JF is my favorite Oiler. Seriously.

  101. Lowetide says:

    Speaking of Deliverance (Ned Beatty will be at tonight’s ceremony btw) the Eagles have had a real nice 3rd quarter and it’s 24-19 Cardinals as the 4th quarter begins.

    I’d just made peace with the Eagles losing and had decided to cheer for the Cardinals when this happened.

  102. DeeDee says:

    Say what you want regarding Smyth’s number getting retired (or not)…

    Just tell me the guy who is going to beat him for all time goals in our lifetime, or points, or playoff goals, or playoff points.

    After all he’s only #5 on the list behind Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson and Messier with 265 regular season goals?

    Plus the first 4 guys all the the luck (and pleasure) of playing together…

  103. HBomb says:

    God I love the NFL. In the department of parity, it’s everything MLB isn’t.

  104. Lowetide says:

    Dee Dee: Hemsky. Or Gagner. It’ll happen.

  105. Coach pb9617 says:

    There was some fella in here before yammering about how easy it was to find a retread to “sawoff” the tough minutes on the cheap and that Horcoff was a waste. So I dug. I took the top 3 forwards with 30 games played rated highest in qualcomp from each team. I got rid of anyone that had an ES differential of worse than -5.

    These, specifically, would be the fellas “sawing off” the tough minutes. There are exactly 71 of them.

    The “saweroffers” average salary is $3.22 million.

    The “saweroffers” median salary is $3.25 million.

    There are two teams with none of these guys. There are three teams with one of these guys. There are six teams with only two of these guys.

    So no, it’s neither easy (only 71 guys) nor cheap ($3.22 million) to find “saweroffers”.

  106. Lowetide says:

    coach: Good stuff. Plus of course the trip from Horcoff to the next guy is a day’s drive and two tanks of gas.

    Oilers put Nilsson on IR, I wonder if he plays for this team again. Seriously.

  107. Tyler says:

    BUZZSAW Touchdown!

  108. HBomb says:

    Wow. What an NFC championship game. 30-25 Arizona, going for a two-point convert, 2:53 remaining.

    Awesome.

  109. HBomb says:

    Cardinals up by a converted TD now.

    It’s in the hands of Donovan McNabb.

  110. HBomb says:

    LT: Are you thinking the same thing that I am, that Nilsson’s spot might end up being where Brule fits in?

    I’d still like to see what a package of Nilsson and Grebeshkov could land. Volchenkov please!

  111. Lowetide says:

    HBomb: Brule isn’t coming out of the lineup if he keeps playing like this imo. The question becomes who is the odd man out on the top 6?

    Westrbook is a freaking machine. What a move!

    Anyway, healthy top 6:

    Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky
    Gagner-Cogliano-Cole

    I think the Oilers are going to try and get Bouwmeester and someone young and very good is headed the other way.

    Seriously.

  112. Lowetide says:

    If the Eagles lose this game I’d think McNabb moves along. Seriously. Great QB but it’s time for a change.

  113. HBomb says:

    LT: Bouwmeester, eh?

    I’m OK with it if the d-man they’re moving is Souray. Gilbert I’d be iffy on. And dammit, Visnovsky is in Horcoff/Gagner territory for me…the return would have to be something special. Hemsky, of course, is 100% untouchable.

    I’d rather see them try for Kovalchuk, to be honest, but if they could get Bouwmeester for Souray and Nilsson then extend him for around 6 per year over 6 years…..hey, I’d be a fan (loss of Souray’s toughness and leadership notwithstanding).

  114. HBomb says:

    Somewhere, Andy Grabia is crying. Tears of pain, not joy.

    The Arizona Cardinals are about to go to the Super Bowl. Unfriggingbelievable.

    Good for Warner, a guy I liked with St. Louis back in the day. And Fitzgerald is a freak.

  115. Lowetide says:

    HBomb: I’d expect the deal would cost Cogliano and Gilbert.

  116. HBomb says:

    Lowetide: That would give us, arguably, 3 number 1 defensemen.

    Seems excessive and pretentious. I’d rather they find a high end LW and deal Penner+++ (hint: target “A” plays for Atlanta).

  117. Lowetide says:

    Don’t have a stroke Dan Dierdorf! The Cardinals. Wow.

  118. HBomb says:

    As for McNabb, he’s from Chicago and they theoretically need a QB. Kyle Orton is OK, but a guy like McNabb on a team like that could put the Bears over the top.

  119. Lowetide says:

    HBomb: They’d have to re-work in summer but that’s a beauty D right there. You’ve got Horcoff and the veteran righty they’ll sign at C along with Kid Gagner. RW has Hemsky, Pisani and any number of kids including maybe Brule.

    LW is the matter. They have Penner, Bleeding Gums Moreau and Reddox along with some suspects.

    Who’d I miss?

  120. Lord Bob says:

    Since Tambellini was musing about trading Sabourin as soon as he got him, you don’t think that there’s a trade in the works for Nilsson + [Deslauriers|Dubnyk], and Tambellini is trying to spin Sabourin into that spot instead?

    Just farting into the breeze here, mind.

  121. HBomb says:

    The Eagles have a hope, but it would require them channeling Milt Stegall and the Arizona coaching staff IQ suddenly dropping into Rick Campbell territory (i.e. mid-double digits)

  122. Lord Bob says:

    Also, we live in a world where the Tampa Bay Rays and the Arizona Cardinals play for a league championship within one calendar year of each other.

  123. Lowetide says:

    Aw, hell. The Phillies won this year and the Eagles can’t win until I retire and go to the championship game on my kids inheritance. :-)

  124. docweb says:

    Off to the game. Will compare/contrast with #11′s night when I get back.

    For what that’s worth.

  125. HBomb says:

    They just flashed up a stat that, other than the current Cubs “curse”, the Cardinals have gone longer between championships than any other pro sports franchise in North America.

    The Cardinals. In the Super Bowl. Wow.

  126. Coach pb9617 says:

    There are some interesting names on the “saweroffer” list too:

    Marty Reasoner
    Tuomo Ruutu
    Rene Bourque
    Shawn Horcoff
    Dustin Penner
    Stephen Weiss
    Wayne Simmonds
    Andrew Brunette
    Martin Erat
    Ryan Callahan
    Jesse Winchester
    Martin Hanzal
    Dominic Moore
    Nikolai Kulemin

  127. speeds says:

    Give up Cogliano and Gilbert for a pending UFA Bouwmeester?

    Even if you get Bouwmeester signed for a market value 5 year deal (whatever that would be), is EDM ahead of where they would be if they simply keep Cogliano and Gilbert?

  128. Lowetide says:

    Jesse Winchester is an interesting player. The Senators have a huge gap between their actual players and the kids (very similar to EDM) but there are some nice ones coming. Foligno is one, and I think Winchester might be another.

  129. Lowetide says:

    speeds: It’s a very good question. I’d say yes because Bouwmeester is a complete player who can impact a game in all areas. A difference maker.

    Having said that, Oilers would give up a lot of talent (in my scenario).

  130. slipper says:

    Even Strength Save Percentage

    Roloson 0.932%

    Kipprusoff 0.908%

    I was wavering on posting this. I hope the karma police don’t punish us all. We really need Roloson to remain “hot” for the forseeable future.

  131. HBomb says:

    The guys of interest to me on Ottawa remain the same.

    Volchenkov and Vermette.

    I’d say Heatley and Phillips, but I don’t think Ottawa gives up either of those guys. Some would say Phillips has underperformed for a 1st overall draft pick, but he’s a pretty elite shutdown d-man….and let’s face it, that 1996 draft was kind of shitty (hence the awful World Junior performance for Canada in December 1997/January 1998, when that draft year’s kids would have made up the bulk of the squad).

  132. rickibear says:

    //Who’d I miss?//

    Omark!

  133. Mustafa Hirji says:

    Florida’s a point out of the playoffs and they’ve got two solid goalies. For them, doesn’t it make sense to trade a goalie for offensive help and maybe make the playoffs once this decade?

    Are they dumping Bouwmeester because he is asking too much, or refuses to re-sign (possibly so he can test the UFA market)? In either scenario I don’t want him—too risky.

    If we really want Bouwmeester, take a run at him as a UFA.

    - Mustafa Hirji

  134. HBomb says:

    I’ll re-state it – the guy I’d really want out of Florida is Vokoun, but that’s likely a draft-day deal to be made…..

  135. hunter1909 says:

    The way the Pens are going, I’d try to get Crosby.

    Seems everyone in pensland thinks Malkin is the man, and Crosby is halfway washed up.

    And as for the Sens not trading Heatley, they’re turning into Tampa Bay unless they find some solid role players for Alfredsson etc.

    Long odds for sure, but stupider things have happened when GM’s get desperate.

  136. hunter1909 says:

    Offer the Pens some of OIlers’ wingers, who collectively look great, when compared to the dross toiling on the Pen’s right now.

  137. andy grabia says:

    The Dodgers did everything they could to hide him. EVERYTHING. Didn’t play him, listed him as a pitcher. Probably the best Rule 5 player in MLB history.

    Clemente is actually another Montreal player, though it was with the Royals, not the Expos.

    Between the Eagles and the Oilers, I’m at wits end. I never thought the Red Sox would be the team to make me feel better about myself as a human being, but such is the case.

  138. Showerhead says:

    HBomb – but to say that draft was so shitty such that high end talent wasn’t available… and that somehow tied into the Canadian WJHC performance for the next two years… well it contradicts itself. If the talent was there in other countries such that Canada did poorly as a result, then the talent was available in that draft. If it wasn’t, then it has nothing to do with how poorly Canada did because other countries should have been having bad years too, no?

  139. hunter1909 says:

    I became a Red Sox fan when spending my first ever summer in a big city(college), when they were perennial lovable losers.

    Now they’re top dogs, which is hilarious.

  140. Lowetide says:

    Do they still have baseball? I thought Bud Selig took it out behind the woodshed and shot it about 1994?

    No?

  141. hunter1909 says:

    They call it baseball, but it’s played with a super-ball these days, so the fans think they’re living in an era of 3-4 Babe Ruth’s.

  142. speeds says:

    I’d have really liked to see Ruth relative to his era. It’s hard to imagine that he was a better hitter than Bonds, but the stats seem to indicate he was.

  143. dubya says:

    From the 2006 Cup run, the G5 overtime winner was probably my best memory of the Oilers.

    Me too. San Fernando’s goal is one of, if not my absolute favorite hockey memory of all time. See we can agree on something, PJO.

    I watched all the Stanley Cups but 1990 was my favorite…I was between 8 and 12 for the first 4 so I kinda thought it was normal to have a team full of HOFers and win the cup most of the time. By 1990 I understood a bit more how hard it is to win Stanley.

  144. andy grabia says:

    I’d have really liked to see Ruth relative to his era. It’s hard to imagine that he was a better hitter than Bonds, but the stats seem to indicate he was.

    There’s a whole article on it in Baseball Between The Numbers. Google book is here

  145. danny says:

    Coach, the ‘yammering’ was me, and again your twisting the parameters of the discussion.

    Point being, its more logical to look for a reliable pivot that can soften Horcs minutes than to hunt for a Lecavalier that will kill soft minutes.

    Horc can increase his EV+/EV- easily as hes demonstrated with a couple seasons platooning the toughs.

    If you bring in a guy capable of sharing the defensive zone faceoffs, without bleeding EV-, then youre in the EV+ obviously.

    There are players like this that can be had at reasonable salaries, for reasonable lengths, which levy much lower risk than an 11 year contract.

    The EV payoff of Lecavalier, over someone like Rene Bourque per se, wont be as big as many expect, because people underrate Horcoffs EV offense, and the considerable falloff effect that hes demonstrated when he does the heavy lifting.

    If you want to get cheeky with me, keep it in focus and ill gladly discuss ad nauseum.

  146. RiversQ says:

    Here are some words for Rob Brown’s hair:

    Cumulonimbus

    Ethereal

    Sparse

  147. speeds says:

    like most/all, I’m nervous about Hemsky coming back now; if he misses 2 more games it would give him 9 more days of rest.

    I suppose if they use Hemsky only on the PP the risk of contact is reduced, but I don’t think think they’ll use him that way and even if they do the risk may be too great.

  148. Lowetide says:

    Also: wickets.

  149. bookie says:

    Not sure if anyone has posted this but

    http://atdhe.net/live-tv.php?i=11453633

    works well

  150. Ribs says:

    Thanks bookie. I’ll have to remember to bookmark this time.

  151. Tyler says:

    Was there just someone standing, in full Anderson equipment, with his back to the camera in the entrance that the other 6 used? Weird.

  152. Ribs says:

    *hands Dennis some tissue* For, you know… the tears.

  153. Tyler says:

    Also, unless I’m crazy, Anderson looks like he’s tied down. It’d be a shame to get booted from his own ceremony, I suppose.

  154. Tyler says:

    If MacT is smart, he lets Ron Low run the bench for a couple of periods tonight. He’d be good for another 10 years.

  155. Coach pb9617 says:

    Point being, its more logical to look for a reliable pivot that can soften Horcs minutes than to hunt for a Lecavalier that will kill soft minutes.

    No, you claimed it was cheap and easy to find, not logical to look for.

    “…That leaves us with looking for a fairly reason(er)able piece left to acquire.”

    “…its cheaper to add a guy like Peca than a guy like the 07/08 Horcoff.”

    “…My point is, a guy that can saw off tough minutes (Peca) are cheaper than guys that can murder soft minutes (Parise)… “

    “…Horcoff can be a consistent 70-80 point guy and if all it takes is picking up a $2.5M shutdown guy then just make it happen already.”

    I’m telling you it’s not cheap, and not easy.

    I looked at a full year last year, same qualifiers for forwards, except 60 GP and there were 75 guys that were “saweroffers”, with 28 of them centers. I don’t have salary data for last year, but in looking at the names on the list, it’s evident that the average salary would be in the same ballpark, $3 – $3.5 million. “Sawoffers” don’t grow on trees and aren’t cheap. 07-08 Horcoff is right in the range for the price of a “saweroffer”

    Incidentally, Rene Bourque, Dustin Penner and Martin Hanzal on that list too.

    If you want to get cheeky with me,

    I’ll leave that to Glenn Anderson.

  156. Henry says:

    Nice post (again) today LT. Anderson was a tremendous player for about 7 years. I’m sure Harold Snepsts and Jamie Macoun still have nightmares about flying around them. Sort of like Braydon Coburn probably does about Hemsky. I’m glad his number is going in the rafters, his play with a big game on the line is a big reason there are banners up there at all.

    I never thought the delay getting him in the hall etc was justified. Sure he was a bad interview, so was Fuhr, Kurri, others. His off ice ‘sins’ didn’t blunt his contributions to the game enough for him to be left out of the HHOF for so long.

    He was pretty good in the community too. I worked in a lab at the Cross Cancer Institute in 1987. That summer Anderson showed up in the lobby with the Stanley Cup. He had a sort of dazed, half bored Mork-like expression posing with a lot of guys in lab coats. Several hours later i wandered by again and the MDs were gone, but Anderson was still there putting hairless kids into the cup. He was an important guy to that place for more than fundraising.

  157. Tyler says:

    Man, I can’t even come up with something cynical about that. What a nice moment with the woman who survived cancer. Pretty terrible hat though.

  158. Tyler says:

    See, the beauty about trading the heart of the franchise last time and having these ceremonies so frequently is that it’s unlikely Lowe would have another heart of the franchise to trade so soon.

  159. Coach pb9617 says:

    He was pretty good in the community too. I worked in a lab at the Cross Cancer Institute in 1987. That summer Anderson showed up in the lobby with the Stanley Cup. He had a sort of dazed, half bored Mork-like expression posing with a lot of guys in lab coats. Several hours later i wandered by again and the MDs were gone, but Anderson was still there putting hairless kids into the cup. He was an important guy to that place for more than fundraising.

    Thanks for that, Henry.

  160. Lowetide says:

    Ditto what coach said, Henry. I did not know that, and that was a pretty cool moment with the woman from the photo.

  161. bookie says:

    If MacT is smart, he lets Ron Low run the bench for a couple of periods tonight. He’d be good for another 10 years

    I don’t really understand this comment, maybe I am missing the [sarcasm] tag?

    Ron Low was probably the worst coach in the history of the Oilers. He was a Sather lapdog and not even a good one at that.

  162. bookie says:

    Was there booing of Lowe?
    Classless if so!

    Pretty quiet crowd overall

  163. Lowetide says:

    Carol Burnett was worse.

  164. Lowetide says:

    Lowe being booed is a terrific sign imo. DO SOMETHING!!!

  165. Tyler says:

    “Wayne you complete us all”?????

    Ron Low was probably the worst coach in the history of the Oilers. He was a Sather lapdog and not even a good one at that.

    Right, so the “joke” is, after seeing that for a while, Oilers fans would be all “Hey, maybe MacT isn’t the worst coach to ever step behind a bench.”

  166. bookie says:

    LT – I have wiped Carol Burnett from my memory so he/she doesnt count.

    Kaayytz not Cats…

    LT – as per the doing something, as in make a trade, or do something interesting in the cerimony?

  167. PDO says:

    Why did Anderson sign his own jersey?

    And LT, wasn’t that just a “moose” chant for Messier?

    I’m focused on the Ravens game… Timlin sucks good ref dick.

  168. bookie says:

    Tyler,sorry for making you explain your humour, but there are some on here who might like ROn Lowe and hate MacT. You never know…

  169. bookie says:

    And the award for the longest speach goes to….

    I am ready to revoke his Hockey Hall of Fame induction.

  170. danny says:

    Coach, honestly.

    I don’t know how to say it any simpler than, a $2.5-3M reliable pivot, is a safer and cheaper in both assets + salary, than chasing a Lecavalier. And IMO which is my point entirely, the reults would not be much different.

    You cant sit there and tell me guys like Dominic Moore, Marty Reasoner and players of their calibre are untouchable. because theyre not.

    Its a hole on this team. Horcoff taking fewer own-zone faceoffs, and letting a guy capable of good EV- numbers take them, would be a nice EV+ boost in softer conversion rates IMO.

    It takes Edmonton out of a PVP style, but thats a different debate altogether.

    And stop using “saweroff” in quotations because as far as I know, its your word, so no need for the quotation marks. Take credit where credits due for that little gem.

  171. Tyler says:

    No worries bookie, it takes all types.

  172. bookie says:

    That was a pretty awesome call, I wonder if Rod Phillips rents himself out for parties? “Bookie walks up to the fridge, he reaches in grabs a beer, sits down drinks it, SCOOOOOOORRES” That would be awesome.

  173. danny says:

    I wonder if Glens moustache is enshrined in the hall?

  174. Stan the Caddy says:

    Gary Glitter making his come-back at at #9′s ceremony? Interesting…

  175. bookie says:

    Any chance of a Ranger-Oiler trade tonight, they have the whole evening to brainstorm

  176. Coach pb9617 says:

    I don’t know how to say it any simpler than, a $2.5-3M reliable pivot, is a safer and cheaper in both assets + salary, than chasing a Lecavalier. And IMO which is my point entirely, the reults would not be much different.

    I’ve said nothing about Lecavalier, I’m simply showing that your “saweroffers” are cheap and easy to find premise is false. There’s less than one center per team in the league that qualifies and there are two-and-a-half forwards total per team that qualify.

  177. Ribs says:

    bookie, that would be pretty sweet.

  178. danny says:

    Coach, see thats where the strawman stuff comes in. I was joining in the lecavalier discussion, and saying that a Reason(er)able type player would yield as much results.

    Its kind of silly to think there would be considerably more than 30 players whom stats meet the criteria anyhow, considering, one center or two normally take those minutes on any given team. let me guess theres less than 90 forwards too? Imagine that.

    So feel free to tell me that marty Reasoner is untouchable if thats your opinion on the matter.

    Maybe we can unload that useless twat 89 and see if Toronto are silly enough to give us Dominic Moore?

  179. Tyler says:

    There should be a between periods feature on Rob Brown’s hair.

  180. Tyler says:

    Am I crazy, or in that three minute clip featuring seemingly every player of significance in Oilres history, was Ryan Smyth missing?

  181. slipper says:

    Rob Brown swears by standard definition television.

  182. Lowetide says:

    Ryan Smyth doesn’t live here anymore.

  183. danny says:

    Im guessing Lowe is still sensitive about tampering accusations, so Smyth didnt make the cut.

  184. Coach pb9617 says:

    Its kind of silly to think there would be considerably more than 30 players whom stats meet the criteria anyhow, considering, one center or two normally take those minutes on any given team. let me guess theres less than 90 forwards too? Imagine that.

    Yeah, and they cost $3.2 million on average. Horcoff costs $3.6 million.

    It’s not a strawman about anything. The central piece of whatever argument you’re setting forth is false.

    Unless you’re the Red Wings *shakes fist*.

  185. Tyler says:

    Neither do Bill Guerin and Mike Grier. I guess they were more signficant Oilers. Bill did play almost three years with the Oilers, I suppose.

    Christ, they wouldn’t even have had to do any fancy editing “Hemsky to Horcoff to Smyth…scores!”

  186. Ribs says:

    How much are we betting Roloson gets injured tonight?

  187. bookie says:

    Once Smyth is sitting in a Lazyboy with a beer gut, he will get on the video. While he is on a rival, no way.

  188. danny says:

    Coach this is my last post on this subject because its going nowhere obviously.

    My ‘cheaper’ caveat was referring to two things. 1) Cheaper than Lecavalier 2) I referred to cheaper in light of Horcoff potentially being a consistent 75-80 point player making $5M

    I didnt say cheaper than $3.5M or whatever number you came up with. I’m willing to grab a $3.5M guy so cool. Thanks for the leg work.

    Marty Reasoner makes $1.0M btw.

  189. Tyler says:

    Grier plays for San Jose, for crying out loud! Marchant is in Anaheim, which has to be a more hated team than Colorado.

  190. bookie says:

    Ok, good point, I was not paying any attention…Greir/Marchant are a little further back I guess…

  191. bookie says:

    I was pretty sure that it was Garon that was holding back Moreau, thank goodness that problems is done with.

  192. Scott says:

    Welcome back Hemmer!

  193. PDO says:

    Holy shit did I miss him…

  194. danny says:

    Heeeees Baaaaaaaack

  195. Ribs says:

    I think the kid’s alright.

  196. Schitzo says:

    I love hemmer but I cringe when he drives the net like that.

  197. Coach pb9617 says:

    Hm. Should hits made on a guy without the puck count as a hit?

  198. Coach pb9617 says:

    I didnt say cheaper than $3.5M or whatever number you came up with.

    You said, and I quote:

    “…its cheaper to add a guy like Peca than a guy like the 07/08 Horcoff.”

    07/08 Horcoff made $3.6 million. That’s about average for the “sawoffer”.

    Perhaps you should be more careful with your words when making an argument, fella.

  199. YKOil says:

    I'm with speeds on the Bouwmeester angle. I keep Cogs and Gilbert.

    Would look at a deal including Vis but that is only because Souray still has a year NTC left and Bouw is much younger than Vis.

    That leaves Grebs and if a deal for Bouw that uses Grebs and none-of Gagner & Cogs can be worked out then its a deal that no sane GM would do. Florida can't wait on Eberle so…

    I don't see it. Not as a deal the Oil wins anyways.

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