Oilers at Wild, G43/08-09

This is Glen Sather as a Boston Bruin. Sather was a marginal player by NHL standards. He never scored 20 goals in a pro season, not even in the minor leagues (highs of 19 in 1964 for Memphis Wings and 1976 for Edmonton).

He played a gritty, nasty game despite being 5.11, 180. Sather had more than 100pims a couple of times.

Sather could play a little, the great Habs team of the 1970s dealt for him in the mid-70′s because of his PK and checking abilities.

I think a player like Liam Reddox might end up having a career similar to Sather’s. But then again that’s the thing about these types of players: they have skill sets that are easily duplicated so luck and timing have a huge impact.

Sather wasn’t lucky all the time as a player. He skated for the Boston Bruins and the Montreal Canadiens in seasons before they won the Stanley (1969 and 1975, respectively).

Sather would have better luck as a coach and manager. The year before he played for the Oilers, Sather played for the Minnesota North Stars. During his playing career, he was often mentioned as a guy who might have a career in coaching when he hung up the skates. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the North Stars had asked him to hang around for another season 30+ years ago.

The Minnesota Wild do not have the same balance and depth this season that we’ve come to expect, but they are still a good hockey club. Button down coach Jacques Lemaire has his no-names skating their lanes and generally making things difficult for the opposition. One thing I’ll give Minnesota is that they don’t play a bunch of kids, prefering to flush out their roster with mid-20s Euro’s who’ve learned the game or late 20s rejects from other teams who’ve failed as scorers but learned the finer points of the game and applied them in an intelligent manner.

Lots of people think the Wild are boring. I prefer calculating. They’ve spent a decade asking the hometown fans to sit on their hands because W’s will pop up with regularity. The fans have bought in and the Wild have delivered.

I suspect they’ll win a Stanley long before a few more famous and exciting teams win the honor.

The Edmonton Oilers have won their last 2 games but have very little chance of covering the bet I suggested on the weekend. Alone in 8th by the All-Star break? It is to laugh. The team’s one offensive weapon (Hemsky) is getting better but won’t be around until after the league breaks for the worst game of hockey every season (All-Star game). They caught a couple of people flat-footed and may have found another undersized wonder in Gilbert Brule but the Minnesota Wild wrap that defense around you and squeeze until everything stops moving.

The Oilers are closer to 8th than they’ve been for a couple of weeks:

  • 7th PHX 47points in 44gp
  • 8th CBJ 46points in 43gp
  • 9th MIN 45points in 42gp
  • 10th EDM 45points in 42gp
  • 11th COL 45points in 43gp

If things break right the Oilers could be inside the top 8 by Friday morning. Don’t bet the bank.

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222 Responses to "Oilers at Wild, G43/08-09"

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  1. hunter1909 says:

    Whats particularly cool about Sather, is the fact that he was a mouthy s.o.b. always needling the opposition. That’s an underrated part of the game, getting under the opposition’s skin.

    Also, so many good coaches come from marginal players like Sather. methinks it’s got a lot to do with the reality that a crappier player that’s not stupid is going to be studying the game from an early age, unlike the natural talents who are able to enjoy themselves, playing their game, and being wonderful in general.

    Also, of course, a below star level player will understand the need to improve in less talented players. How can a Rocket Richard or Bobby Orr understand or identify with a plugger?

    Oilers are insane. No point in my trying to figure them out anymore. MacT calls out Schremp(if I was a GM I’d threaten to fire a coach over this type of ludicrous behavour), then the team beats the Capitals away, and didn’t play half badly in the process.

    At least MacIntyre is back for good old Derek.

  2. quain says:

    The Wild are pretty close to looking like the Oilers right now. They have a Shawn Horcoff doing good things down the center, they have an elite injured winger, and then they have a bunch of forwards that either aren’t very good or aren’t doing too well.

    Minnesota has a system they play exceptionally well, Edmonton has quite a few defensemen that are better than what Minnesota is throwing out. I think if you played this game 100 times Minnesota takes a majority of them, but it’s a much, much smaller majority than it was with Washington.

  3. oilerdago says:

    LT, I remember Sather when he played for the Rangers and hated him something fierce (of course, my brother being a Rangers fan made it easier too). It was always fun ending each argument with the chant “1940″ until they finally won the cup (w/Mess) in ’94.

    I think you are being very kind in calling the Wild’s game “calculating”. While Lemaire is a great coach, their game tests the limits of my patience (not unlike the Oil these days).

    I’d be shocked if we picked up points tonite, but we sure do need ‘em. The Wild have a way of forcing young kids to make bad giveaways.

  4. quain says:

    Also, given that Columbus doesn’t play tonight and we have a game in hand on Colorado, the only thing that needs to break right for us to be within the top eight is to beat Minnesota… which I think was a similar situation to last season in March, which means we’re absolutely going to choke one away.

  5. HBomb says:

    Six of the last forty games against Minnesota, a team that’s owned the Oilers recently (but pre-lockout, the Oilers owned them basically from the start of their existence in fall 2000).

    Now would be a nice time for the tide to turn back in the Oil’s direction in this series.

    Boogard v. MacIntyre I?

    quain: You know better than that – if the Oilers had a real first line center like Mikko Koivu (or Jason Spezza, or Scott Gomez), they’d be contending for the division title!

  6. Scott says:

    if the Oilers had a real first line center like Mikko Koivu (or Jason Spezza, or Scott Gomez), they’d be contending for the division title!

    If they got to keep Horcoff they could well be.

    Penner – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Some Kid – Koivu – Cole

    That would be awfully tough to argue with (especially since Koivu can PK)

  7. HBomb says:

    Scott: You make a good point – two very good centers might be better than one great center and one “liability”.

    Hence the “accelerated” development curve they’ve got Gagner on, methinks. I think the target is a Brind’Amour/Staal type combination.

  8. Coach pb9617 says:

    Gilbert Brule but the Minnesota Wild wrap that defense around you and squeeze until everything stops moving.

    I dated a girl like that once.

  9. DBO says:

    Missed yesterday’s fun about LeCavalier. I’m surprised at how many people think Vinny is not a top 10 player. On our team as the top centre with hemsky he’d be the best player since the Human Rake, and an actual goal scorer. News flash everyone, we have not had a legit 40 goal scorer since … I’m not sure if we’ve had one in the last 15 years. As for getting him, his deal is the albatross but it would not take hemsky. they want depth and young developing assets that are cheap. On an earlier thread I proposed a few things we could do to fit Vinny’s deal under the cap, while keeping us competitive and while not going old man in the locker room.

    Basically you deal Gagner, Grebeshkov, Pouliot (3 NHL’ers who are cheap, although greb gets a raise) a 1st round pick and a prospect. As I argued in that thread, you need to deal one of Cogs or gagner. too many smurfs.

    Then you deal Moreau and Staios to a team that needs vets and are competing for the cup for the next few years. teams like Boston and Montreal could use the veteran presense but would have trouble with their deals. Washington and Chicago could absord their deals (especially Chicago who loses more then 16 million in salary next year and are young and need vets). Take picks or prospects back.

    Our lineup to end the year becomes:

    Vinny – Hemsky – Penner
    Horcoff – Pisani – Cole
    Cogliano – Nilsson – Brule
    Brodziak – Stortini – Reddox

    Gilbert – Souray
    Vish – Smid
    Peckham – Malik/Strudwick

    At year’s end you make a decision about Cole. If he resigns for less the $4 mill, we can afford him. If not you promote from the farm and sign a cheap 6th dman.

    In net is the issue, but with Rollie’s age you gotta think he signs a 1 year deal for like $2 million. he starts and we have a team that can make a run at the playoffs.

  10. DeBakey says:


    7th PHX 47points in 44gp
    8th CBJ 46points in 43gp
    9th MIN 45points in 42gp
    10th EDM 45points in 42gp
    11th COL 45points in 43gp

    Fun Fact:
    PHX, CBJ, MIN,& EDM are all at
    1.07 Pts per Game
    COL a mere 1.05

  11. Unleaded says:

    LT said…
    …the Minnesota Wild wrap that defense around you and squeeze until everything stops moving.

    Coach pb9617 said…
    I dated a girl like that once.

    So what you are saying is that Lemaire could open a very successful house of ill repute, corect?

  12. doritogrande says:

    I don’t quite agree with the idea that the Wild don’t play kids. Look at James Sheppard and Colton Gilles as excellent examples against this train of thought. Both still had time left in junior they could have taken advantage of but both played the majority of games their first NHL season and produce results. Hell even Benoit Pouliot’s finally getting results, and he’s Cogliano’s draft class.

    I finally get to watch a full Oilers game, and we get the Wild. I’m now trying to re-trace my steps and figure out how I brought this kharma on myself. Maybe it was that quip about the Rexall ice…

  13. Steve says:

    As far as winning percentage goes, aren’t the Oilers and Wild tied for seventh? Using only points to measure this seems not to befit the blog of a guy who actually believes in the value of stats.

  14. Smytty777 says:

    1) Important game against a divisional opponent 2) Opportunity to string together a nice win streak 3)four point game against a team the Oilers are competing for a playoff spot with.

    I sense trouble.

  15. oilerdago says:

    LT said…
    …the Minnesota Wild wrap that defense around you and squeeze until everything stops moving.

    Coach pb9617 said…
    I dated a girl like that once.

    So what you are saying is that Lemaire could open a very successful house of ill repute, corect?

    Unleaded: You nailed it – Lemaire missed his calling. With that stick of gum in his mouth he’d be perfect behind the front desk.

  16. doritogrande says:

    “Unleaded: You nailed it – Lemaire missed his calling. With that stick of gum in his mouth he’d be perfect behind the front desk.”

    LINEUP! Bunch a guys from up there on the rigs comin in fer y’all.

  17. Alice says:

    /if the Oilers had a real first line center like Mikko Koivu (or Jason Spezza, or Scott Gomez), they’d be contending for the division title!/

    What, are you trying to bait poor Traktor, now that he’s cleaned up good and we’re getting to enjoy him a lot more??

    But since it’s a GDT we might as well get it all on the table:

    Schremp, Nilsson and Roli for GlenX, and Penner could’ve got the Colitis and down to 210 or so if MacT hadn’t lost the room.

  18. HBomb says:

    What, are you trying to bait poor Traktor, now that he’s cleaned up good and we’re getting to enjoy him a lot more??

    With fairness to Traktor, I don’t think I’ve seen him bring forward the repeated suggestion that has been made elsewhere that trading Horcoff PLUS Gilbert for either of Spezza or Gomez would be a good idea. That’s fanboard crap if there ever was.

    Yeah, we’re going to give up a defenseman in his 2nd year in the NHL to upgrade marginally on the first line (heck, in the case of Gomez, I wouldn’t even call it an upgrade), despite all the evidence suggesting that the top of the batting order isn’t where the Oilers issues lie. That makes a ton of sense.

    Depth people – affordable, effective depth. Good teams have it. The Oilers currently have overpriced and ineffective depth, lead by “your captain, #18, Ethan Moreau”.

  19. Coach pb9617 says:

    So what you are saying is that Lemaire could open a very successful house of ill repute, corect?

    It would be dark, and there would be leather involved, but yes, I believe he could be a very successful pimp.

  20. Alice says:

    How, exactly, do you open an Unsuccessful house of ill repute? That takes some doing.

  21. Woodguy says:

    1) Oilers coming off an impressive and unexpected win

    2) 4 point game against division opponent

    3) Win tonight and the Oilers actually occupy a playoff spot in the standings (such as they are)

    1 + 2 + 3 usually = poor effort and defeat

    I’ve lost count how many games like this the Oilers have played in the last 6-8 years, but my selective memory has them crapping the bed more often than not.

    I used to think part of the problem was Captain Jason Smith.

    When they ran well the Oilers would then proceed to throw their sticks on the ice expecting a victory and get hammered by a lesser or equal team.

    Was the Captain Smith letting the guys think too much of themselves and lose focus? I used to think so.

    Since it has kept happening since the Smith departure, perhaps its inherent in the Oiler culture……or may its the Coach and/or current captain :)

    Either way, the Oilers seem to have a habit of thinking too much of themselves when they start to win. They stop doing the things that got them the wins (i.e. trying hard, winning small battles), and they stop winning.

    If they come out hard and play a good game tonight, I will be officially giddy with excitement about our playoff prospects.

  22. HBomb says:

    How, exactly, do you open an Unsuccessful house of ill repute? That takes some doing.

    See the “Rub ‘n Tizzug” episode of Trailer Park Boys. They managed to screw it up quite spectacularly.

  23. St George says:

    Too much negative energy. The Oilers have made a season of knocking off teams they have historically had trouble with (Nashv., Washington). Why not Minny?

  24. quain says:

    Here’s an interesting observation, based on fiddling with BtN and Vic’s app: There is no Edmonton Oiler with a negative QualComp and a positive Corsi.

    I think it would be cool if our scrubs beat the other team’s scrubs.

  25. pboy says:

    Only because Corey ran out of hand lotion though…..

  26. Coach pb9617 says:

    quain, part of the problems is that there are only four or five Oilers with a positive Corsi to begin with.

  27. Unleaded says:

    You nailed it boys. Last year in the second half, it wasn’t just that the kid line took off, it was that our 4th line was scoring at the rate of an average 2nd line, without the extra ice time, and still creating the energy that the 4ht was supposed to create. We had a second line that played soft minutes and outscored, and a first and third line that didn’t shit the bed too much.

    This year, when healthy, I see a team that is Driven by its top line (esp. on the PP) and has an outscoring 2nd line (recently, anyways). We get little offense from our bottom 6.

    Also, just because I really want to hit this one home… consider these numbers from behind the net. If you can name both players, you get a gold star!

    TOI/60…RATING…QUALCOMP…QUALTEAM
    12.69…..0.35………0.05………-0.02
    11.21…..1.66………0.00………-0.05
    CORSI…GOALS/60…ASST1/60…ASST2/60
    -14.1…..0.71……….0.47……..0.47
    ..9.8…..1.19……….1.04……..0.59
    PTS/60…GFON…GAON…
    ..1.65……21……18
    ..2.83……24……16
    GFON/60…GAON/60…+/-
    ..2.48…….2.13………3
    ..3.57…….2.38………8

  28. Jonathan says:

    Let’s look at teams over .500 in the WC right now:

    1. San Jose 32-10
    2. Detroit 30-13
    3. Calgary 26-16
    4. Chicago 24-17
    5. Colorado 22-21
    6. Minnesota 21-21
    Edmonton 21-21

    8. Vancouver 22-23
    Anaheim 22-23
    10. Columbus 21-22
    11. Phoenix 21-23
    12. Nashville 20-23
    13. Dallas 18-23
    14. Los Angeles 17-25
    15. St. Louis 16-26

    Again, by goal differential:

    1. San Jose: +51
    2. Chicago: +43
    3. Detroit: +40
    4. Calgary: +11
    5. Minnesota: +9
    6. Vancouver: +5
    7. Anaheim: +1

    8. Columbus: -2
    9. Edmonton: -7
    10. Colorado: -8
    11. Los Angeles: -13
    12. Nashville: -15
    13. Phoenix: -17
    14. St. Louis: -21
    15. Dallas: -23

    Finally, by the most relevant score to actual playoff position (as opposed to team strength/weakness), PTS/GM:

    1. San Jose: 1.643
    2. Detroit: 1.535

    3. Chicago: 1.341
    4. Calgary: 1.333

    5. Vancouver: 1.089
    Anaheim: 1.089
    7. Minnesota: 1.071
    Edmonton: 1.071
    9. Columbus: 1.070
    10. Phoenix: 1.069
    11. Colorado: 1.047

    12. Dallas: 1.024
    13. Nashville: 1.000
    14. Los Angeles: 0.952
    15. St. Louis: 0.833

    In Summary (and sorry for the length): The top tier in the West is San Jose and Detroit, followed closely by Chicago. Calgary is somewhere between them and the next tier, which consists of seven teams vying for four playoff spots. Anaheim and Vancouver aren’t out of reach by any stretch, although logically I’d expect Vancouver to move up to Calgary’s level over the back half.

    Only four teams look to be out of it, and of those four, two are within four points of a playoff spot.

    Parity, ladies and gentlemen.

  29. Coach pb9617 says:

    Also, just because I really want to hit this one home…

    Without even looking at the numbers, for someone harping on the 4th line, I’m going to guess you’re looking at Glencross and Strudwick.

  30. Unleaded says:

    Sorry Coach. I considered givving you a silver star, but then I realized you weren’t even playing the game.

    I mean really – where’s the fun in that?

  31. Smytty777 says:

    Unleaded: I would guess Moreau and Glencross.

  32. Kent W. says:

    Also, just because I really want to hit this one home… consider these numbers from behind the net. If you can name both players, you get a gold star!

    Not sure who the Oilers guy is, but Im pretty sure the second one is Curtis Glencross. He’s been great this year. Thanks Kevin!

  33. quain says:

    Moreau and Glencross.

    It kills me how good the top line is and how bad everyone else is. It’s just turtles all the way down.

    And I think MacT might be trying to kill Kyle Brodziak. The kid is on for so many defensive zone faceoffs, it’s sick. He gets to take the draw and then go back to the bench and wait to line up with some variation of two other guys who can barely play hockey. I bet he has a liver like a sixty-two year old airline pilot.

  34. Coach pb9617 says:

    Moreau and Glencross.

    That’s a non-sensical comparison.

  35. Alice says:

    I dunno Coach, bottom-6 LW’s , and not rookies.
    What’s not to comp – do we have depth charts with finer gradations than that?

  36. Unleaded says:

    Hurray! Gold Stars!

    And I don’t think that MacT is killing Hot Brod, but rather doing what we all saw he had the potential for – Peca’s Job. He’s still 3 years out from being as good, but it’s the same kind of treatment Stoll got last year.

    The only thing that surprises me is that it only started a few games ago.

  37. quain says:

    And, another useless statistical comparison:

    Horcoff and Brodziak, against the top ten league-wide (in terms of FO Win volume) in each category of face-offs:

    ES:
    Horcoff (53.5%) outdraws 5 of 10
    Brodziak (53.9%) outdraws 6 of 10
    Highest: Rod Brind’Amour (63.9%)
    Lowest: Jeff Carter (45.9%)

    SH:
    Horcoff (41.6%) outdraws 0 of 10
    Brodziak (43.1%) outdraws 0 of 10
    Highest: Antoine Vermette (57.7%)
    Lowest: Mike Richards (43.2%)

    PP:
    Horcoff (57.2%) outdraws 5 of 10
    Brodiak doesn’t take many.
    Highest: Mikko Koivu (64.1%)
    Lowest: Jason Spezza (53.8%)

    I’m not presenting this to make a point or really even show anything significant, just wanted to look at it and figured I’d share.

    Also, Horcoff is in the Top 10 of PP/ES face-offs, so technically it’s a Top 11 in those cases.

  38. mc79hockey says:

    How, exactly, do you open an Unsuccessful house of ill repute?

    a) Stock it with Calgary girls;
    b) Locate it somewhere other than Calgary.

  39. danny says:

    This team reallllly needs a veteran centre. Not entirely because of the much celebrated faceoff win/loss ratio, but because Shawn Horcoff needs it.

    I know ive been harping on this point since the lockout, and most of you guys stay entrenched in your PVP ways… but Horc really does excel in a softer minutes role.

    In Sweden he was a fantastic offensive player, and the word then from guys that followed was he wasn’t played in a shoutdown role. I think he outscored Forsberg that season?

    Anyhow, when hockey returned, theres been a definite pattern with #10. His big offensive seasons have been while handing the lions share of heavy lifting to the other guy.

    in 05/06 Peca was hard matched more often than not against the Iginlas of the world. Shawn had 22 goals and almost 1 PPG.

    In 06/07 Horcoff went 51 points in 80 games. EDM went mainly PVP that season because Stoll had a terrible first 20 games, and missed the final 30 games with concussions. Horc did most of the heavy stuff, and losing Smyth the final 1/3 of the season didn’t help.

    Next is 07/08. Horcs Qualcomp was 3rd amongst centres. Stoll at 0.9, Reasoner at 0.6 and Horcoff at 0.2. He responded with arguably his best season to date, even though it was shortened to injury. 21 goals, 50 points in 53 games.

    This season, we bared witness to Mact trying to create a shutdown guy out of Pisani, after he was robbed of Stoll and Reasoner. Horc innevitably saw his responsibilities skyrocket.

    This isn’t something he can’t handle obviously. He can go PVP and leave his team with a chance to win by sawing off against the stars. My suggestion however is whats wrong with giving him the Zach parise treatment as long as he covers the bet? We don’t have anyone else mudering the soft minutes. Horcoff has proven every time that he can and will do so.

    That leaves us with looking for a fairly reason(er)able piece left to acquire. We need a Peca-esque guy that can saw off against the stars, in a platooning role with Horc.

    If Edmonton doesnt make the playoffs, we will see much guffaw amongst the masses about how Horcoff slumped… but hes only doing what hes always done. saw-off against tough competition.

    Hes locked in for 4 or 5 years now at a reasonable rate, we dont need to worry about his counting numbers anymore… put him in a position to succeed.

    its cheaper to add a guy like Peca than a guy like the 07/08 Horcoff.

    He’d be quite the pump n dump by his final year too ;)

  40. Alice says:

    Brodz ‘outdraws 0/10 ‘sounds bad, but really it looks like he’s about 11th league-wide in SH draws (43.1 vs 43.2, I’d call that a ‘draw’ for 10th )

  41. Coach pb9617 says:

    I dunno Coach, bottom-6 LW’s , and not rookies.
    What’s not to comp – do we have depth charts with finer gradations than that?

    Because Moreau and Glencross wasn’t an either/or proposition. The team didn’t choose Moreau over Glencross. They chose Brule/Potulny/Strudwick over Glencross.

  42. HBomb says:

    danny: I'm almost 100% positive that more often than not in 05/06, the Oilers were running Smyth/Horcoff power vs. power against other team's top lines, and Horcoff was still producing. The obvious exceptions were the nights against Calgary, when Moreau/Peca/Pisani seemed to be MacT's weapon of choice against Iginla.

    Your point is well taken, however. For this team to get better, they need another veteran centre, without question. Horcoff can't do it all himself, and Brodziak & Pouliot just aren't there yet.

  43. Coach pb9617 says:

    He can go PVP and leave his team with a chance to win by sawing off against the stars. My suggestion however is whats wrong with giving him the Zach parise treatment as long as he covers the bet? We don’t have anyone else mudering the soft minutes. Horcoff has proven every time that he can and will do so.

    Danny, what’s easier to find, someone to outscore the tough minutes or outscore the easy minutes?

  44. Matt N says:

    This isn’t last years edition of the North Stars that put out Boogard, Voros, Fedoruk and Chris Simon (how on earth did they hide these guys).

    However, Boogard has a history of pushing around and intimidating previous lineups of the Oil (remember the Hemsky hit). This game, and the 5 more like it before the end of the year, are specifically what Big Mac was brought on for. Looking forward to a throwdown of Probert/Crowder proportions.

    A quick check through hockeyfights.com shows that they have never met before.

  45. Smytty777 says:

    A quick scan (not intended to be a comprehensive list) of UFA centres provides the following:

    Marchant, Pahlsson, Reasoner, Axelsson, Yelle, Malholtra, Peca, Bonk, Holik, Madden and Sillinger.

    Are any of these guys 1) available and 2) desirable in an Oiler uniform?

  46. Yeti says:

    Matt – other than taking Boogard off the ice for 5 minutes, how does Big Mac stop him taking a run at our skill players? The notion that a slugger would put an end to the injury problem looks misplaced, or am I just missing something obvious?

  47. Alice says:

    SMac’s on a PPG clip for most of this week already, Boo’s just going to try to get him in the box to keep him off the scoresheet.

  48. danny says:

    Blogger Coach pb9617 said…
    Danny, what’s easier to find, someone to outscore the tough minutes or outscore the easy minutes?

    Thats a bit of a strawman argument there.

    I didn’t say it was easier to outscore tough minutes. My point is, a guy that can saw off tough minutes (Peca) are cheaper than guys that can murder soft minutes (Parise)… so it really baffles me why Lowe has sat on his hands yet again, when a shutdown pivot would IMO offer a significant offensive boost.

    Lets Say Horc is +20/-18 against toughs.

    PecaII arrives and is +11/-13 against toughs.

    Horc(ise) meanwhile goes +26/-15 against the weakerthans.

  49. Traktor says:

    Rod Brind’Amour has 1140 points in 1368 games. Horcoff is has just over 300 points in his career.

    He might be cut from the the same mold but it’s like comparing a Mercedes-Benz CL-Class to a Mercedes E-Class.

    Horcoff just doesn’t have the same physical tools under the hood.

    Either does Gagner. I’m not sure I could think of two players more opposite. You’re talking about a 6’3 goal-scoring power forward with speed and a 5’10 pass first runt with questionable skating.

    Horcoff is more like a Brendan Morrison and Gagner is more like David Perron.

    Not the greatest foundation to build around.

  50. Alice says:

    /The team didn’t choose Moreau over Glencross. They chose Brule/Potulny/Strudwick over Glencross./

    So you’re saying the asset buckets ARE smaller than bottom-6 LW – once he priced himself out of the 4L sweepstakes he was obviously not old or expensive enough for 3L duty?

    Nevermind Ethan, actually I think the Mistake was an assumption that experienced and reliable bottom-6 talent – what HBomb called depth – is both cheap and plentiful: ‘ Grab one of those Readily Available journeymen at the deadline…’ – we hear that all the time.

    The truth is that they Are cheap, but in the experienced and reliable part, they’re not as plentiful. Supply and demand suggests that dime and dozen go hand in hand. I’m not sure I buy that straight-up anymore.

  51. Matt N says:

    @ Alice : You can’t stop him, you can only hope to contain him.

    @ Yeti : I have heard this arguement and I do see your point. No matter who you have on the bench it won’t deter some (most) tough guy players from taking a run at someone. However, I can say from experience, that having an opposition player who takes liberties and throws his weight around with your team and knows that you can’t match him can be very deflating.

    I played in the WHL (briefly) vs. the PA raiders during the Dave Manson/ Ken Baumgartner days. These crazy f##ks would take your pucks and nets away during pregame warm up and go sit on your bench drinking your water. If you didn’t have any way to respond it was a real demoralizing moment.

    I can guarantee that having Big Mac wearing an Oiler jersey makes all the other guys life a little easier. Not so much the little guys (Gagner, Cogs etc) but the middle weights on the team (Souray, Moreau). Remember a few years back when Steady Steve tried to stand up for the boys and got rag dolled.

    My main arguement here is that hockey minds like MacT and Jaque Demers obviously see value in these guys or they wouldn’t ice them.

  52. relic says:

    I know what unleaded is getting at here but hasn’t this been discussed a million times? it was hossa over glencross and then glencross was gone by the time mgmt clued in they couldn’t get hossa.

    is glencross playing better than moreau? yes.

    would the oilers still have Brule/Potulny/Strudwick if they had never chased hossa and signed glencross when they had the chance? probably

  53. Alice says:

    In short, the multitude of cheap and reliable GlenX replacements has not materialized, is the shorter point. It’s an assumption we all make, and it needs to be questioned is all.

  54. Jonathan says:

    Horcoff is more like a Brendan Morrison and Gagner is more like David Perron.

    C’mon now, you’re exaggerating just a little bit.

    I don’t think Morrison’s ever played the tough minutes, for example.

    I think we all should know what Horcoff is; a 50-70 point outscorer who can handle top opposition. There’s a ton of value in that, but I don’t think it follows that his offense would neccessarily sky-rocket against the softies. He’d certainly get scored on less and post some gaudy +/- numbers, but I don’t think his offensive game is at the same level as some of these offensive stars.

    Knowing how Horcoff would react is as difficult as knowing how Getzlaf would react to tough minutes; we know the results would change, but we don’t know by how much.

    It’s one of the reasons I like Lecavalier – he’s been incredibly successful against second-tier opponents in the past, so it seems logical that he’d put up big numbers if put back in that role.

  55. Traktor says:

    This is the equation:

    The difference in Vinny/Spezza playing soft minutes vs Horcoff

    minus

    The difference between Vermette/Peca/Kesler/Malhotra vs Horcoff playing tough minutes

    You’re looking at a 30 point differential in the easy minute category.

    In the shutdown category you’re hardly going to see a difference in effectiveness between Horcoff and his counterparts.

    What’s easier to find? A veteran center or someone who can net 90-100 points in a soft minute roll?

  56. quain says:

    Why don’t we just acquire Daniel Briere for peanuts and have him play the soft minutes?

    I am 100% “woo-hoo, yay!” behind finding a guy who will crush the other team’s lesser lights, but if I’m going to eat a shit contract I’d rather take the guy who might put up a few less points and not cost me every useful young player in my system.

    Frankly, if I’m blowing my Gagner-fueled load, I’d rather get Frolov.

  57. slipper says:

    If I was going to rate the top 4 WC teams it would go:
    1. Detroit
    2. San Jose
    3. Calgary
    4. Chicago

    The Flames underlying numbers are great from the top to bottom of their roster. The Flames’ EV save percentage, well, not so much.

    The teams after those for are a relative crap shoot.

  58. Jonathan says:

    Why don’t we just acquire Daniel Briere for peanuts and have him play the soft minutes?

    The difference between Lecavalier and Briere last season in QualComp, Corsi, PTS/60 and virtually every other statistical category was phenomenal.

    They don’t compare well at all.

  59. hunter1909 says:

    Call me crazy but I hope Brule takes off tonight. That goal v the Caps reminded me of Glenn Anderson.

    You know. A player in front of the net who actually doesn’t panic.

    How long since Oilers had a player like that?

  60. Unleaded says:

    Why do I bring this up?

    Why can’t I let it go?

    Because Chopper used to be my favourite player, and since he left the team for more than a season, I’ve watched him become the kind of player I don’t want on my team.

    He broke my heart, and I want him gone. Having GlenX would have made that transition easy, and without him, there isn’t enough grit or size on the team. So they’ll keep him, and make me cry.

  61. hunter1909 says:

    Moreau reminded me of a talentless version of Messier.

    That was in the past.

    Now Moreau reminds me of a brainless and talentless version of Messier.

  62. Coach pb9617 says:

    So you’re saying the asset buckets ARE smaller than bottom-6 LW – once he priced himself out of the 4L sweepstakes he was obviously not old or expensive enough for 3L duty?

    Every team except Detroit *shakes fist* is carrying dead weight in the bottom six right now.

    This is another one of those through the looking glass moments where some decently bright people are getting pissed for the wrong reasons. There are so many things to criticize Lowe for, yet people focus in on the one thing that can easily be tossed aside. He didn’t sign a 4th line journeyman that played the 29 games of his life $800,000 more than he was worth because his hands were tied by an owner offering all of the mineral rights in Alberta to a 1st line RW?. I have no issues with that. Blaming Moreau for that? Blaming Moreau’s contract for that? Eh.

    I blame Pisani’s contract for this. He’s such a china doll that he can’t stay on the ice and that 2.5 million against the cap is killing this team.

    Sound ridiculous? Sure. About as ridiculous as blaming Moreau’s deal, signed two years ago when he looked to be a quality third line LW that could play ES, on the PK and pot 20.

    You guys sure find some weird things to blame Lowe and MacTavish for, even though there’s plenty of good material available.

  63. danny says:

    Jonathan,

    Im not convinced the EV+ EV- difference of these two scenarios would be significant. Horc getting 50 points and Horc getting 70 points isnt a marginal difference.

    Horcoff has been a 70+ player each time hes had a shutdown or two playing with him. He excels in softer minutes. Not every player does that.

    I’d love a Horc\Lecavalier toughs\soft as much as the next guy if we arent considering the contracts and how it depletes our bottom 6. But these are real considerations.

    After everything came out through the wash, I really think it would be a wash in EV+ \ EV- with MacT running (for example)

    Horcoff\Lecavalier
    or
    Madden\Horcoff

    If there was a gap, in theory it would be absorbed by a superior bottom 6.

  64. Alice says:

    Coach – I never said a damn thing about Moreau or Pisani. Nothing, zilch. So stop dragging that chain around with my argument.

    GlenX was disposed of because his kind is considered disposable. That has turned out to be an Oversight or Assumption that a professional mgmt corps should recognize. We All thought he should be easily replaceable – how hard could it be? The facts speak to it being more difficult than the $-figures involved would lead you to believe. The $600k GlenX replacement does not exist, else we would have found him, no? We Assumed because it’s cheap it’s plentiful. In the cap world it Has to be cheap, and cheap plus pretty f’n good is tough to find. Unless you’re Detroit *shakes fist*, where you might get the ‘my name on the Stanley’ discount on those guys once in a while.

  65. quain says:

    The difference in cap hits between John Madden this year (I assume he’ll make the same next year) and Lecav’s extension is probably near exactly what Cole will get next year. You won’t see the cost savings in the bottom six, you’ll see it in the top six, because it’s that substantial. You also get to keep all of the players that Lecav would cost you in a trade, which is probably one of Cogliano/Gagner, Gilbert, and prospects.

    I know it doesn’t look apparent, but Gagner is inching closer and closer to being a good player. He’s already a player who can, if coddled well enough, be a plus to this team. If you have a low event line, lead by Pisani and a Madden-type and a first line of Horcoff and Hemsky then Gagner can easily eat up offensive zone faceoffs because you’ve got lines that can take the defensive zone ones.

    I just don’t see why we should invest so many assets, dollars, and years into Lecav when the alternative isn’t worse.

  66. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach – I never said a damn thing about Moreau or Pisani. Nothing, zilch. So stop dragging that chain around with my argument.

    *looks at Alice’s post*

    “…he was obviously not old or expensive enough for 3L duty?

    Nevermind Ethan…”

    *blinks*

  67. danny says:

    quain,

    good point about a better top 6, in regards to being able to afford to keep Cole around.

    My thoughts about the bottom 6 being better is that we dont lose any cheap prospect talents like Cogs going the other way.

  68. Kris says:

    Every team except Detroit *shakes fist* is carrying dead weight in the bottom six right now.

    This is another one of those through the looking glass moments where some decently bright people are getting pissed for the wrong reasons. There are so many things to criticize Lowe for, yet people focus in on the one thing that can easily be tossed aside. He didn’t sign a 4th line journeyman that played the 29 games of his life $800,000 more than he was worth because his hands were tied by an owner offering all of the mineral rights in Alberta to a 1st line RW?. I have no issues with that. Blaming Moreau for that? Blaming Moreau’s contract for that? Eh.

    I blame Pisani’s contract for this. He’s such a china doll that he can’t stay on the ice and that 2.5 million against the cap is killing this team.

    “Sound ridiculous? Sure. About as ridiculous as blaming Moreau’s deal, signed two years ago when he looked to be a quality third line LW that could play ES, on the PK and pot 20.

    You guys sure find some weird things to blame Lowe and MacTavish for, even though there’s plenty of good material available.”

    Ditto.

  69. Alice says:

    He was not considered for 3L duty, he was overlooked. The too old or expensive was gratuitous, you’re right.

    But the Nevermind Ethan was just that: nevermind the Ethan angle because that was someone else’s post. I just wanted to take the GlenX replacement story straight-up, without those ‘vs Ethan’ comparos. Could have signed a proven reliable and at least occasionally Useful chip. Worst case, If you got Hossa, the 1.3M contract would be tradable. The Assumed Easy Replacement has turned out to be a bit of a mirage. That is all, the cheap assets are as important as the expensive ones, because you need both.
    This is not an Ethan post, Really!

  70. Kris says:

    Oops, didn’t mean to plagiarize Coach. (How the heck do you italicize on here anyway?)

  71. Kris says:

    Alice:

    “The Assumed Easy Replacement has turned out to be a bit of a mirage”

    Nice point, but, as you say, it’s only “a bit” of a mirage.

    It looks to me that management could improve the bottom 6 on the trade market by selling some middling prospects. Management hasn’t done that, because they really want to develop from within. That is, just becase easy replacements haven’t been brought in, doesn’t mean they couldn’t be brought in easily.

    I mean, when you look at trades of the past, the guys we need are fairly cheap, no?

  72. quain says:

    Lowe’s sin isn’t the non-signing of Glencross, it’s the whole picture.

    Trading Torres, relying on Nilsson and Moreau to be healthy and effective and when it turns out to be a little less than the truth, making no move to shore up the weakness. Even if you think, during the healthy period, that Penner / Nilsson / Moreau / Strud is a prefectly acceptable LW depth chart (honestly, it has been, but only because Moreau has had the dice on his side), it’s clear that the roster is not getting the job done and needs to be reinforced somewhere else.

    That’s usually the issue with what Lowe does: if you look at each move, by itself, it looks completely acceptable, but at the end of the day you’re running seven kids on the forward side of your roster and you’re losing a game here and there in December that’ll cost you the playoffs in April.

    So, no, he probably didn’t err on Glencross, but there’s definitely an issue.

  73. Matt says:

    Now Moreau reminds me of a brainless and talentless version of Messier.

    I doubt that a brainless version of Messier could find its way to the rink, or feed itself. At least, I can only assume on the evidence that Messier’s entire brain function is devoted to survival tasks.

  74. Alice says:

    Good point Kris, the LW business has prob been equal parts internal dev and MacT on ‘Liquefy’ – as opposed to pure scarcity, we don’t know that Tiny has been looking that hard.
    But I just think there are more Strudwicks out there, and fewer ‘found late’ guys like the Red Wings seem to nurture and we seem to punt into the weeds because a shiny bauble captures our attention.

  75. HBomb says:

    I think quain’s in the right ballpark here. Why spend money and assets on Lecavalier to kill the soft minutes when we could potentially have Horcoff and Madden essentially splitting anything resembling tough minutes with a Cole/Gagner 2nd line combination doing their thing to the softies?

    I think we’re further ahead spending our 8 million a season on Cole and Madden and saving the assets we’d have to deal to in order to acquire Lecavalier.

    Penner Horcoff Hemsky
    Nilsson Gagner Cole
    Cogliano Madden Pisani

    Walk into next season with that as your top-nine, and you’re in good shape.

    Depth wins. If the Oilers are going to spend big money on a forward, I’d hope it would be to upgrade over Penner at 1LW and turn that line into even more of a power vs. power bear than it already is.

  76. Traktor says:

    Torres makes Penner look like that guy who worked 35 years and never missed a day of work. Torres was the most inconsistent player the league.

  77. Scott says:

    The problem, I think, is that we couldn’t afford to sign Hossa and Glencross and then trade our way out of the cap problem.

    I think trade our way out of the problem already existed with getting Hossa alone. Somewhere in the emails and fax machines, a tentative deal for a big money Oiler (please say Penner) was made in advance of offering Hossa Katz’s millions.

    That said, the approach in general is fine, and I’m sure they would have done it if possible (similar to what Holland did by signing 7 d-men before securing Stuart on the cheap ‘just in case’).

  78. Traktor says:

    “Why spend money and assets on Lecavalier to kill the soft minutes when we could potentially have Horcoff and Madden essentially splitting anything resembling tough minutes with a Cole/Gagner 2nd line combination doing their thing to the softies?”

    Because Lecavalier would net 90-100 points is a soft role. Gagner? Maybe 60.

    “Walk into next season with that as your top-nine, and you’re in good shape.”

    Good shape to what? Make the playoffs or win the conference?

    When was the last time a 7th or 8th place team won the cup?

  79. Coach pb9617 says:

    Easy on that call HB. Madden is still playing the toughs, but is starting to have some problems doing so. I don’t know his exact underliers, but he’s getting scored on enough this year that it’s caught my attention.

  80. Dennis says:

    At this point I think it’s about what we could’ve gotten for Torres and not about whether we should’ve moved him or not; along with looking at LW depth and wondering where it would stand post-Raffi.

    But before that, consider that Moreau wasn’t a bonafide 20 goal scorer when he was signed and he was signed just a little into the ’07 season After he’d just played 4th line LW minutes for the Cup run.

    So, anyway,there seems to be too much smoke around 14′s off-ice behaviour for there not to be a corresponding fire and hey, maybe the Oilers thought that he played too fierce to stay healthy. The big picture is when you decide your gonna deal him you have to:

    - look at what you get back and how many years it will take for that guy to help you win a playoff series. So, for all the nice things 67′s shown in the last couple of games he’s still not a kid that can play against real players or kill the soft so where’s his value in terms of helping you win a playoff series? And how many years do we have to wait again until it ALL comes together? And it shouldn’t it be closer to coming together when you’re a cap team?

    - you can’t move Torres and leave the LW that thin AFTER you decided to play hardball with Glencross. I had a total with Glencross that I wouldn’t get past but it didn’t get to that point and now it looks like another Hejda where we let a guy go who we had the first look at and who wanted to come back.

    Regarding tonight, I’m sorta on the JW tip that Conceivably every team up to and including the Ducks can be caught. You look at things like GD and the like and there’s some reason to believe that the newfound 89-26 soft min chem coupled with the return of a healthy 83 might be enough to vault:D us into, say, 7th place.

    Note: the same thing now seems to be happening for 89 where early on his counting stats were down but the underlying numbers told us things would start happening for him and now they are.

    Still, we need a little winning streak to give us a little space from the other out-of-playoff guys and until we get that then time continues to waste and the wheels continue to spin even deeper into the mediocre mud.

  81. HBomb says:

    Traktor: 60 points playing the soft with Cole for a full season with another year under his belt? Between that and the David Perron comparison, you’re short-selling Gagner.

    That lineup I posted contends for the division. You’ve got a top-25 NHL forward in Hemsky, two pretty damn good veteran centers, depth down the right wing…..7th place would be an underachievement for that lineup.

    And Gagner putting up 60 points against the soft for 1.7 million cap hit is a lot better than getting an additional 67% production for an additional 6.3 million or so in cap hit in my mind. Don’t sink big money into guys to murder the soft – save those minutes for the kids learning the ropes, and invest in making sure you’ve got at least a half-dozen quality NHL forwards who can play against anyone.

    Want proof that such a model works? See the Oilers in spring 2006 – they were a bounce away from winning it all. And before you say “they finished in 8th”, I’ll say the words “attrocious goaltending for 60 games” to disprove that argument.

  82. HBomb says:

    Coach: Ok, if not Madden, than another guy out of that tree.

    Peca, Malholtra….some other veteran center who could take on a 3rd line role and take at least a bit of the heat off Shawn Horcoff.

  83. Dennis says:

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/basic_5_on_5.php?sort=7&mingp=&mintoi=&team=CBJ&pos=

    Looks like Hitch's running Umberger/Nash PVP this year and Peca isn't a shutdown guy anymore.

    Looking down the last at the BJ's:

    1: look who's played the toughest min and how he's doing with it;)

    2: look at young Jakob kill the soft.

  84. Wil says:

    Quain: Isn’t Lowe’s sin thinking Cole could play LW? Cole, Penner, Nilsson, Moreau looks better than Penner, Nilsson, Moreau, Struds…

    Not that Lowe has a one sin limit…

  85. HBomb says:

    Dennis: Man, I wish we had a D-man like that Hejda guy to play with Visnovsky about now, instead of Staios sucking up 2.7 million in cap space on the 3rd pairing.

    That “miss” irks me 10x more than the Glencross one does.

  86. quain says:

    Wil: I forgot about that experiment, somehow, but it’s true. And, again, it’s another move that in a vacuum makes sense and is understandable (and makes the roster look just fine, minus the veteran center), but at the end of the day it didn’t work out and he needed to audible.

    He’s slow to right the ship, it’s the theme with every season.

  87. hunter1909 says:

    Torres himself went on record as saying the only reason he was willing to lay some of the hits he did was because he knew that Laraque was going to back him up.

    Once the gong show announced their “team toughness” myopic vision for 2006-07, Torres knew he was going be be left twisting in the wind and adjusted his game accordingly.

  88. Coach pb9617 says:

    Peca, Malholtra….some other veteran center who could take on a 3rd line role and take at least a bit of the heat off Shawn Horcoff.

    Jim Dowd.

  89. Coach pb9617 says:

    Quain: Isn’t Lowe’s sin thinking Cole could play LW? Cole, Penner, Nilsson, Moreau looks better than Penner, Nilsson, Moreau, Struds…

    Wasn’t Lowe still chasing Hossa when he traded for Cole? I think Hossa was going to be his first line LW.

  90. godot10 says:

    //Lowe’s sin isn’t the non-signing of Glencross, it’s the whole picture.
    Trading Torres, relying on Nilsson and Moreau to be healthy and effective and when it turns out to be a little less than the truth, making no move to shore up the weakness.//

    Lowe’s mistake was believing that Erik Cole would be Glencross’s replacement. Lowe and his professional scouts made the mistake of believing that Cole could play left wing, which it turns out, he can’t.

  91. Traktor says:

    “That “miss” irks me 10x more than the Glencross one does.”

    I called him our best defender in preseason! It took the coach until Christmas to even know he was on the roster.

  92. hunter1909 says:

    I wonder if Lowe’s even given Tambellini his office yet.

    You hear so little from Tambelli – not a single trade, nothing.

  93. Coach pb9617 says:

    Lowe’s mistake was believing that Erik Cole would be Glencross’s replacement.

    What now?

  94. Coach pb9617 says:

    Wasn’t Lowe still chasing Hossa when he traded for Cole? I think Hossa was going to be his first line LW.

    He was still chasing Hossa, I just listened to the Cole news conference.

    He didn’t trade for Cole with the intent of putting him on the LW.

  95. Unleaded says:

    Wil: That doesn’t take into account aht Moreau was never on the 4th line, and trying to keep him off the 4th line has buggered our lineup all year.

    Considering how much time we spend working to make the last playoff spot every year, is it possible that 7th-8th is in fact the goal each year? Enough for a spot but low enough to still have a decent pick?

  96. danny says:

    I think Horcoff puts up Marleau offense consistently as a *softer* minutes guy. Until Gagner is ready to kill those minutes, i see no logic in having Horc saw-off in the PVP role.

    The guy flat-out kills softer minutes. Hes done it consistently. Its a known entity as far as im concerned. If we can find a guy that doesn’t bleed against the elites isnt that really much more realistic than getting Lecavalier murder soft minutes?

    Horcoff can be a consistent 70-80 point guy and if all it takes is picking up a $2.5M shutdown guy then just make it happen already.

    If it doesnt work out that way? You lose the $2.5M journeyman much easier. heck Lowe proved just how easy that could happen twice this season already.

    I guess what im saying here for the sake of being completely overbearing on my opinion and pushing it to annoying levels of repitition…

    Horcoff CAN be our Lecavalier-lite (Marleau) but the coach needs guys to put out there instead of him in order for that to happen.

  97. Wil says:

    Unleaded: Moreau’s not a fourth liner?!? What news is this?? ;)

    I used to think that was our plan, but now I try to think we have a better one… helps me sleep at night.

    Coach: you’re right about Hossa, but there are two different philosophies here, one is to identify a need and fill it, the other is to get the best asset available and make it work (or hope that it works)…

    With Hossa out of the picture, Lowe shuffles the deck and says, hmmm Cole can play LW can’t he?

  98. Schitzo says:

    He didn’t trade for Cole with the intent of putting him on the LW.

    Given the money required for Hossa, I wonder if Cole was going to be an Oiler at all. Lowe might have figured that soon-to-be-UFA would be an easy piece to move for good return when we entered salary cap hell.

  99. B.C.B. says:

    I think play Horcoff as PVP, and with Hemsky, has less to do with a lack of other players rather then with a logical thought out plan. If Hossa was picked up then maybe the plan would have worked, but as he wasn’t and no other plan B was attempted.

    Being in the minority, I would love to get LeCavalier. As longs as Hemskey doesn’t go, but one of both Gags/Cogs and Gilbert/Grebs could.

    Vinny-Hemsky-Penner (taking the second tier opposition)
    Horcoff-Cole-Pisani (PVP)
    Gags/Cogs-Nilsson-Brule (the softest of the softies)
    Brods/Poo-Moreau-Stortini/SMac (energy line)
    The other two in the press box

    Souray-Gilbert/Grebs
    Vish-Smid
    Staios-Peckham
    Struds in the press box

    (things need to happen for this is to get rid of the three headed monster, and the trade for a first liner. I don’t know if we would fit under the cap: but Vinny’s cap hit for this year is only $6.875, or $3.4375 for the rest of the year, so a smaller amount would need to be purged this year- hence I suggest Gilbert be part of the package going back).

  100. DBO says:

    interesting thread again. love this site.

    So lose some people and fill with replacements but have a stellar top 6, or keep your pieces, get a decent 3rd line centre and have a solid top 9/12. i think this is the crux of the discussion so far.

    Here’s a question we need to ask as well. Is Hossa a better fit then LeCavalier? take into account that the deals talked about can free up some money to get lecavalier, while Hossa can fit for a year before we have to make some moves (other then not resigning cole).So here are the lineup’s up front:

    Lecavalier – Hemsky – Penner
    Horcoff – Cole – Pisani (tough min)
    Cogliano – Nilsson – Brule (soft)
    Broziak – Stortini – Reddox
    or
    Horcoff – Hemsky – Hossa
    Gagner – Nilsson – Penner (soft)
    Cogliano – Pisani – Moreau (tough min)
    Brodzak – pouliot – Brule/Reddox

    Not sure which I prefer, but if last year was an indication I expect them to make a play for Hossa (who by the way was offered almost a $1 million more per year in cap hit for the same amount of time)

  101. DBO says:

    And another question. With the return of the three headed goalie monster should the Oil not send garon or Deslaurier down to the minors? If you are afraid to lose Deslaurier, then you send down garon. Curtis Sanford just cleared waivers and his numbers are way better then garon. No one will pick him up. KLowe please send him down so we can keep some of these kids here when Pisani and Hemsky come back.

  102. Traktor says:

    Omark scores at the 2 minute mark.

    http://tv.hockeyligan.se/main.aspx?contentid=697073288193

    One of the nicest you’ll ever see.

  103. Coach pb9617 says:

    With Hossa out of the picture, Lowe shuffles the deck and says, hmmm Cole can play LW can’t he?

    Did he? When he lost the Hossa sweepstakes, who was he going to get – Satan?

    Wasn’t Mac talking about Bobby being a first line guy at about the same time?

  104. shep says:

    nice goal omark:)
    omark with the giveaway and falling down on the game winning goal in the end there too

  105. Bruce says:

    How, exactly, do you open an Unsuccessful house of ill repute?
    a) Stock it with Calgary girls;
    b) Locate it somewhere other than Calgary.

    I laughed out loud when I read that, Tyler, even with the freezing coming out of my gums after the second tough day this week at the dentist’s. It hurt, but the pain felt good. I don’t mind taking the hit to make the play, esp. when “the play” is a (cough) crusty crack against Cowtown. :D

    Pardon the pun, and I think I will stop the C-word alliteration right there. I hear LT has kids.

    Once the gong show announced their “team toughness” myopic vision for 2006-07, Torres knew he was going be be left twisting in the wind and adjusted his game accordingly.

    The team’s history with Boogaard is particularly relevant here. Laraque fought Boogaard three times in the latter’s rookie season in 2005-06, with Big Zhawrzh voted the winner of all three at hockeyfights.com.

    Laraque and Boogaard fought a fourth time in ’06-07, with Laraque winning yet again and Boogaard heading straight to IR as I recall. By then, however, LGG was with Phoenix. When the Wild played Edmonton, Boogaard no longer had his dance card filled (or his face for that matter), and he ran around with impunity, causing no fewer than three Oiler injuries (Hemsky, Reasoner and Smid; all three missed some time to their Boogeyman-inflicted injuries).

    That April the newly recalled Zack Stortini went with Boogaard, and the two met again this past season. While Boogaard was the clear winner of both, at least he stopped injuring Oilers, which might be a coincidence but at least suggests that even a poor but willing scrapper like Zack was a step up on the “team toughness” mantra that failed the team badly. (I still shudder to think of Ethan Moreau, in pursuit of team toughness, picking a bonehead fight with Danny Markov after Markov nailed Stoll with a clean hit in Oct. ’06, and shredding his shoulder and his season in the process.)

    One suspects that a meeting between the hired fists is close to inevitable tonight, as SMac has to both bounce back from the Godard pounding and make his case why he is needed on this team. Hopefully the rest of the Oilers will walk the talk and play with some edge knowing a 265-pound guy has got their back. Otherwise what’s the point?

  106. docweb says:

    I think though that Smac may want to take a page from Zorg’s playbook and just live to see another day.

    A s-kicking tonight would be a disaster for his career

  107. Coach pb9617 says:

    And another question. With the return of the three headed goalie monster should the Oil not send garon or Deslaurier down to the minors? If you are afraid to lose Deslaurier, then you send down garon. Curtis Sanford just cleared waivers and his numbers are way better then garon. No one will pick him up. KLowe please send him down so we can keep some of these kids here when Pisani and Hemsky come back.

    There you go. That will help fix a bunch of things.

    Hopefully the rest of the Oilers will walk the talk and play with some edge knowing a 265-pound guy has got their back. Otherwise what’s the point?

    For the 265 pound guy to score goals!

  108. Bruce says:

    I think though that Smac may want to take a page from Zorg’s playbook and just live to see another day.
    A s-kicking tonight would be a disaster for his career

    DocWeb: “Maybe” on the first point, “Absolutely” on the second. But SMac isn’t going to survive in the league on his skating, so it soon will be “make or break” time. It’s a tough business when what breaks, could be your face.

    His next bout, whoever is involved, will be a character test. But it seems to me Boogaard’s name was mentioned first, last, and most frequently in the middle when MacIntyre was acquired in the first place, so he certainly is in no position to refuse an invitation, let’s put it that way. I suppose it’s possible SMac might let him know if he’s still not 100% on the bone structure front, but there’s no reason to expect Boogaard to respect the tough guy “code” any more than he respected Hemsky et al.

  109. Dennis says:

    Bruce: Yeah, it’s a tough post face-breaking bout but Smack cannot let Boogaard run around out there, either.

    I’m not gonna lie, I’m gonna be nervous for the guy if they throw down.

  110. Showerhead says:

    Hey guys, early start means I can watch… but only if I can find a stream. Anyone have a link? For that matter, is atdhe.net working in any way, shape, or form for anyone?

  111. Unleaded says:

    Cogs loses the opening draw… not the best of starts, but play ends in the right zone… could be worse…

    Ooooh… 27-10-78… could be an interesting night…

  112. B.C.B. says:

    SH: ATDHE isn’t working for me either. Also I can’t find it on either Justin.tv or homertv.net.

    Does anyone have another suggestion?

  113. Showerhead says:

    atdhe started working all of a sudden. link for the Oiler game shows Flyers / Lightning. I’ll keep hunting.

  114. Jfry says:

    anyone having any luck with any of the online video feeds? no luck on sopcast or adthe…any other thoughts?

  115. B.C.B. says:

    This is unfair, The day I can’t find a stream Smid fights. I might have to wait till next season to see that again.

  116. Bruce says:

    I guess Ladi is getting sick of guys running him into the boards from the blind side. A hit very similar to that happened vs. Dallas and last game in Washington, and left Ladi winded on the bench both times. I can’t say I like seeing the helmets come off, but at least nobody tried the Staubitz leg whip.

  117. Jfry says:

    thanks…works great.

  118. danny says:

    After Brodziak takes an effing penalty on Boogaard, a pro-line ad runs with the tag-line.. “play with your brain”

    yes.

  119. Coach pb9617 says:

    Ooooh… 27-10-78… could be an interesting night…

    Excellent.

    Ugh. Lubo. Acid boy, wtf.

    Man, I loves me some big fat Penner ass.

  120. Showerhead says:

    Thanks shep, I appreciate it :)

  121. Bruce says:

    Another 0-footer for Reddox. That’s definitely his range. Bucky wasn’t kidding when he compared him to Smytty.

    Noticing Gagner starting to win more and more puck battles. That was a dandy on the far side inside the Oilers blueline where Sam went in at full one-handed extension and eventually walked out with the puck.

  122. Derek says:

    Hey guys, I just switched from ExpressVu to Shaw cable ( moved ) and this is my first game watching SnetW on Shaw cable. Do all games sound like this? Christ it sounds like i’m listening to the game with a heavy quilt wrapped around my head.

    Just seems to be Sportsnet tho, TSN is just fine.

  123. doritogrande says:

    Nice tilt by Ladi.

    Reddox doing his best Smyth impression.

    My homemade sushi takes too much time away from Oilers hockey.

  124. mcmatterson says:

    Thanks shep.

  125. Unleaded says:

    NOOOO!!!!!

  126. doritogrande says:

    Aw fuck. Get up 13.

  127. Bruce says:

    Ouch. Cogs misses open net, then goes down hard in the corner, then a guy falls on him while he’s exposed. Hope he’s all right.

  128. Mike says:

    C’mon Cogs, get up

  129. Lowetide says:

    Derek: SNW runs their sound through the biffy.

    LIAM!!! And he’s not yet a teenager!!!

  130. doritogrande says:

    Right back out and draws a penalty.

    I love that little Italian.

  131. Bruce says:

    Marek Zidlicky with an All-World shift. Decks Penner in front battling for position, reads the play perfectly and leaves his post in time to crush Cole behind the line, later makes the goal-saving stick check that prevented the open-netter from Cogliano.

    And now a penalty. Guess he’s human after all.

  132. doritogrande says:

    Clutterfuck.

  133. Lowetide says:

    It would be nice to get one here. Well, a PP isn’t bad either.

  134. Mike says:

    This is gonna sound uber-gay but God, Horc is good down low.

  135. Showerhead says:

    Have they played Brule on the PP at all? Not saying he should get time, not saying he shouldn’t, just curious.

  136. Bruce says:

    How the fuck is that not a penalty when the guy’s stick gets hooked up in Moreau’s armpit and comes right out of his hands as NMoreau crashes to the ice. Anytime an Oiler does that it’s a guaranteed penalty, 100.0% of the time. And the Wild score on the continuation. Fuck you very much, Mr.Zebra.

    Not to mention Moreau, who gave the puck away on the centring pass and then got beaten down the ice by the goal scorer. Watch Ethan coast on the end zone replay, that’s just fucking brutal.

  137. danny says:

    Brodziak should have made a better read on that play. He attacked the nearside D when he was harmless, Clutterdouche (i know i know)was the dangerous guy there and Brodz left the lane to him wide open.

    Is Brodz always this much of a mental midget because ive never really noticed before?

  138. Coach pb9617 says:

    Penner, Horc, GAGNER on the power play please.

    Why does it take Mac 20 games to see these things and change them?

  139. Coach pb9617 says:

    Not to mention Moreau, who gave the puck away on the centring pass and then got beaten down the ice by the goal scorer. Watch Ethan coast on the end zone replay, that’s just fucking brutal.

    I started a post on the same thing. He doesn’t even try to get back into the play.

  140. doritogrande says:

    Showerhead:

    He was out there after his first Oiler goal, and promptly took a penalty.

    I haven’t seen him since.

  141. Derek says:

    It sounds odd for Principe to be asking a guy if he plays with the style of a bulldog when it looks like his balls havent even dropped yet.

  142. Showerhead says:

    doritogrande: Thanks and makes sense. The two powerplays I’ve seen today were (obviously) Brule-free and I was wondering if a reason would pop up.

  143. Coach pb9617 says:

    Would be nice to snag a goal on this power play to get some momentum back.

  144. Dennis says:

    I had the chances 5-4 Oilers; 5-3 EV; 1-0 Wild on ST.

    A few times I made notes to double-check the play-by-play and sure enough shots that I thought were directed towards net had been thwarted by Wild sticks. 13 in particular had two SA blocked by nice stick-checks.

    I noticed MacT hard-matching 27-10 vs Koivu-Brunette and what a nice tip pass from 78 to 13.

    Other stuff:

    - Oilers PP looks clueless against a great looking Wild PK.

    - awful effort from 18 on the 2-1 goal. Seriously, this is your captain.

    - awful job from 71 to get beat 1-on-1 for the first goal and then 37 panics and goes to the puck carrier and the winger is left wide open.

    Oilers give up these huge chances for guys walking down the slot like the 2-1 goal and that’s never where they try to score from themselves.

  145. doritogrande says:

    Somebody go get that man a cheeseburger. I don’t know where that caught Penner, but he dropped like a boulder.

  146. Matt says:

    - awful effort from 18 on the 2-1 goal. Seriously, this is your captain.

    I’m afraid you must be mistaken, Dennis. This is the 18 that Terry Jones and I know:

    ETHAN MOREAU: As captain, I resolve not to take it personally that there are so many players on this team who have so much more talent but who don’t want to work as hard to get the most out of the talent they have — like the next two guys on this list.

  147. HBomb says:

    Watching Moreau right now is disgusting. He’s downright awful.

    I was just going to complain about the PP units and having Cole and Penner on the same unit, but first two PP units for the 2nd period were Pouliot-Gagner-Cole, Penner-Horcoff-Cogliano. The Gagner unit may have had the best PP shift for the Oil so far tonight.

    Good to see MacT saw what I saw.

  148. Showerhead says:

    “Penner stays on the ice but he’s moving very slowly…”

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    and Ha!

  149. HBomb says:

    Terry Jones can stick his Moreau-worship straight up his fat ass.

  150. doritogrande says:

    PULL THE FUCKING TRIGGER GILBERT!

  151. Showerhead says:

    Moreau is giving me visions of Rob Schremp, circa Fall 2007.

  152. Bruce says:

    I’ve seen glaciers melt faster than Gilbert pulled the trigger on that. Sweet set-up by Souray goes to waste.

    The Wild are good at the stick checks right on the puck, that must be what happened there.

    I wondered if Moreau had been caught out on a long shift on that 2-1 goal, but it was only 31 seconds. No excuse. What a lame-ass effort, eh, Jonesy?

  153. doritogrande says:

    Is this game putting anyone else to sleep?

  154. Temujin says:

    Oiler games always put me to sleep.

    :-)

    Souray with the interference/crosscheck.

    Clutterbuck, what a name.

  155. Derek says:

    Lucky Clutterbuck didn’t get hurt on that play, could’ve easily had whiplash on that riberioian headfake.

  156. Coach pb9617 says:

    - Oilers PP looks clueless against a great looking Wild PK.

    Aggressive PKs are going to destroy a team that can’t possess the puck on the power play. Someone has to be able to be calm and make a pass or a move. Penner, Cole and Horcoff aren’t those people.

  157. hunter1909 says:

    Okay prediction time:

    Wild win this lol.

    They should be called the boa constrictors.

  158. hunter1909 says:

    MacT’s going to have some excellent comments postgame.

    That’s what all this is about, right?

  159. Dennis says:

    2nd period chances:

    5-5; 4-2 Edm EV; 3-1 Min ST

    10-9 Edm after 40.

    This game feels like the Oilers are down by five goals. Seems to be close to zero chance we can score on the PP so we need to outscore these guys 2-0 in the last 20 min. At even strength.

    So, yeah.

  160. gary b says:

    Cole ties it. Smid wins it. yes, i said SMID.

    :P

  161. shep says:

    FSN North has the chances 9-8 oil after 2, was 6-4 after the first so that sounds about right.

  162. Bruce says:

    Cogliano 0-4 on faceoffs tonight, now 128-220 (36.8%) on the season. He's been <40% in 8 of the last 9 games, so it's not like he's getting better or anything. His frequent linemate Pouliot stands at 47.7% on the season, which while not great is over 10% better, but has only taken about 40% as many draws (none tonight).

    MacT: please explain.

  163. doritogrande says:

    "Cogliano 0-4 on faceoffs tonight, now 128-220 (36.8%) on the season. He's been <40% in 8 of the last 9 games, so it's not like he's getting better or anything. His frequent linemate Pouliot stands at 47.7% on the season, which while not great is over 10% better, but has only taken about 40% as many draws (none tonight).

    MacT: please explain."

    It's all because Ladi Smid won't play forward.

  164. doritogrande says:

    E44.

  165. Coach pb9617 says:

    I hate you Moreau.

  166. Derek says:

    Was that a bad pickup or lack there of by Souray, or was that a hard pass directly into the skates?

  167. David says:

    18 – why?

  168. Showerhead says:

    Well damn. I guess if I’ve got to leave for work at 9:30 (CT) then one of a comeback or even Minnesota getting clearance should be a good thing. Sigh.

  169. Lowetide says:

    Is Ethan done? Seriously.

  170. Bank Shot says:

    Edmonton never gets any shots from the house and they hand them out like candy.

  171. Bruce says:

    Nice pass, Ethan. Right back over your own blueline, like a fucking rookie, behind the guy and hard into his skates. A team worst -2, and a well-earned -2 at that. What happened to “defensively reliable”?

    Two goals down against these guys might as well be ten, for all the chance we have now. We can’t score in this building, and apparently we can’t defend either.

  172. Coach pb9617 says:

    Is Ethan done? Seriously.

    Done ruining a perfectly legitmate line? Not even close.

  173. doritogrande says:

    Sheldon Souray you magnificent bastard!

    I love 44 now.

  174. Derek says:

    The captain of tommorrow stepping in and showing the current one how its done.

  175. Showerhead says:

    Get the **** out of the way Ethan.

    and that’s ****ing why.

  176. Coach pb9617 says:

    Wow

  177. doritogrande says:

    “The captain of tommorrow stepping in and showing the current one how its done.”

    Could not have said it better.

  178. Lowetide says:

    All that fight was missing was Joe Pesci with a pistol to finish the job.

  179. Bruce says:

    Maybe Ethan will blame Pouliot for passing him the puck before he coughed it up.

    Hey lookit! Finally an Oiler with the balls to tell Moreau to follow or get the hell out of the way, and THEN show him how it’s done.

  180. Bruce says:

    For god’s sake Brule, quit taking penalties 200 feet from our net!

  181. Derek says:

    I’m really rooting for Brule to step up and make a difference on this team, but what is that, 4 penalties in the offensive zone in 3 games?

    Thats 2 steps back to the 1 forward he keeps making with his play with the puck.

  182. doritogrande says:

    Well what the hell was that?

  183. Schitzo says:

    So help me god, if Moreau comes out and tells the media they played a decent game but didn’t get the bounces, I will lose my lid.

  184. Showerhead says:

    With that, I’m gone. Good evening gentlemen.

  185. Councilman Les Winan says:

    Seriously, isn’t Moreau lucky he didn’t get an unsportsmanlike penalty for dropping his gloves there?

    Or is that an old rule?

    P.S. Somebody should clue in Clutterbuck now.

  186. Bruce says:

    Do any of these channels know that the play begins with the faceoff? Replay, replay, slow it down, end zone, net cam, oops, the play has started again, let’s catch up. It used to be better in the 60s ferfuxsakes.

  187. Coach pb9617 says:

    E44.

    You’re joking, right?

  188. Bruce says:

    There’s Hockey Canada instructional video stuff there, three guys making a line change, the other two both trying to check the same guy and both missing him clean for the 2-on-0. “How not to …”

  189. doritogrande says:

    Oh look. We want that from our captain?

    Fuckhole.

  190. Coach pb9617 says:

    Seriously, isn’t Moreau lucky he didn’t get an unsportsmanlike penalty for dropping his gloves there?

    That just happened the other night in a game I was watching…and I can’t recall which. The color guy said that “if the second guy doesn’t realize that someone already dropped ‘em, the ref will let it go.”

    There are takebacks.

  191. Councilman Les Winan says:

    That wasn’t what I meant, “Captain”.

  192. B.C.B. says:

    Damn you for being right LT, Damn you. I still pray for eigth: cause it means the playoff are closer (and I could not bear it if the Leafs made it and we didn’t), oh and I like reading your blog.
    Damn you

  193. Bruce says:

    Way to go, Staios. No fucking way do you let that guy chop your goalie with a minute left in a 4-1 game. Fuck you buddy.

    Oops, make that 5-1.

    Fuck.

  194. Matt says:

    The most awesome thing about that Souray fight was that Moreau was the only guy in the building that didn’t know what was going on.

    I can recognize the crowd noise for “They’re gonna fight!” from my kitchen. You’d figure Captain Heart-of-a-Lion would clue in too.

  195. Bruce says:

    8 straight losses in the “Excel” Centre, 9 GF, 30 GA. Any questions?

    2 steps forward, 1 back, and Colorado tomorrow. Even I can guess what happens next.

  196. Oilman says:

    He was waving Souray out – thought he heard someone say faceoff

  197. pboy says:

    He was waving Souray out – thought he heard someone say faceoff

    lolololololololololololol

  198. HBomb says:

    Colorado on the 2nd night of a back-to-back?

    That’s a loss EVERY time. Thank God it’s Friday so I don’t have to worry about work the next day.

  199. Oilman says:

    So MacT doesn’t play Garon tonight (not that the loss is on Roli) because he had to go with the hot guy no matter what his previous record was against the Wild (but he’ll play ever game from here on in against the Sharks because of his past results against that team), and now instead of playing Roli rested against Colorado, he’ll have Garon in there rusty. Thank God they don’t have 4 goalies man, MacT’s head would explode.

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