Help indeed. Will a solid day of pessimism propel the Oilers to victory?
Thanks for that, LT. Here’s hoping Roloson decides to put on his usual show against S.J. tonight, because that’s the only hope I see.
We’ll murder the bums.
I trust Dwayne.
If Mac wants an injured Horc to keep doing the hard work for him, he’s got to give him an NHL RW, not an AHL replacement. It can’t be Reddox, Brule, or even Rob Schremp [native name "Skates in quicksand"]. He needs to move Nilsson or Pouliot over there if he wants that line to perform.
At least it’s on a Friday night. We can all get loserdrunk and enjoy the show
The Oil aren’t so much Wiley Coyote as they are the Acme Corporation: always putting out a product that’s supposed to do somthing special that ends up failing specatacularly. (This year they put out The Kid-Line-omatic 3000. Before that it was the Conkananen 5000.)
I guess that means we fans are Wiley Coyote, continually buying the same damn products, in spite of the results.
If Mac wants an injured Horc to keep doing the hard work for him, he’s got to give him an NHL RW, not an AHL replacement.
If I am MacT and Horc really is hurt, I rest him and play Brule and Reddox. Give Horc some time to get rested and better so we can take on lesser foes more effectively!
Don’t forget the Puck-Mover 2421 and the Anybody-Can-Play-Center 3000.
But Acme’s got a new CEO A2000 to right the ship.
Gee, that picture says it all.
Would Wiley catch the Roadrunner if Mac-T still had the room?
I hope the zamboni’s been well-maintained, because it’s going to have to scrape twenty Edmonton Oilers off the ice tonight.
J-Roe is out for this one at least (shoulder). He always seems to score on us.
I am very worried about the faceoffs tonight. The PK could be destroyed tonight because of the red-dot performance. Can we sign Adam Oates for a game or two until Horcoff is better? Please?
LT – headline for tomorrow could be a picture of MacT looking “stupified” behind the bench (with that heavy NY’er accent).
Just keeping it in the cartoon catgory today. We might all be crying in our beer after tonite.
Thats great LT
What about these lines if Horc is out:
Nilson-Gagner-Cole (PvP, ha!)Penner-Brodziak-Reddox (Checking)Moreau-Poo-Cogliano (Utility)Strud-Brule-Stortini
Try to double shift whoever is playing well on that 4th line.
BTW, how many games are left on Brule’s waiver eligibility? Maybe he should be sent down. If so, how about:
Foil up their knuckles, give them broken glasses to wear, and throw them out against Thornton.
I swear, this team is like the greatest anti-alcohol message possible.
My son is going to associate drinking beer with rage, tears, and tremendous sadness.
Kris I like your lines.
Oilers always find a way to play to the level of their competition but we’re still gonna get slaughtered. Our only hope 4 for 4 on the PP.
From the desk of Tom Gilbert:
“That is frustrating when you’re borderline the whole year. One day you’re in and feeling good and thinking, let’s just put together a couple of wins and bump ourselves up a little bit, then we go back down,” defenceman Tom Gilbert said. “That’s tough when you’re teetering at the playoff line.
“And San Jose is coming off a loss — which they don’t have many of — so it’s going to be a battle. A fun one, though.”
The Oilers resident Jani Lane-lookalike sums like the last 12 years with one quote.
We’ve all gotten into what else we could or should be doing with our time rather than reading and watching hockey and to bring my last point right off the bat I can tell you from the perspective of losing my #1 sports love – the Expos – that it’s better to cheer mediocre than have nothing to cheer for at all. That being said you wish you had something to cling to in the last 12 years other than the run of ’06.
The Dys aren’t any great shakes without Count Sulkula and where would the Flames be without Iginla? So for the last five games we’ve had the absence of 83 as an excuse but the games are piling up and we’re using up our home GP getting closer back to being even again and is there any real hope anymore?
Other than that, enjoy the game:)
Yup the sharks will be needing some help alright. This is our barn.wtf on paper this should be easy for the sharks but that is why we play the game. Hmm who went into the Shark tank and got out with 2 points? Who broke the chance for 10 game winning streak. It was us the lowly Oilers.I say fuck em, we got 60 minutes to get it done. I say we are midst of are own 5 game winning streak.
Okay maybe that 2nd Red Bull was too much
I thought one of the strengths of this team was supposed to be depth. The #1, 2, and ~7 guys go down and that line-up Kris shows is ugly. I realize it would be like this for many teams, it’s just that in TC there were so many forwards the brass didn’t know what to do with themselves. The results in Springfield don’t exactly scream ‘breaking down the door to get to the bigs’ either. Which is too bad b/c if the light had gone on for someone with some grit and hands, like a Truhkno, he’d be pretty useful right now.
I believe the picture is missing the out-of-proportion umbrella that would properly symbolize many present predicaments in the NHL and the economy as a whole.
Dennis: Ya the Oilers have been unable to gain traction all season. Right when Cole/Gagner seem to gel Hemsky goes down. Its alot like the Eskimos past season. They’d win on the road in the Labour Day game and get beat bad at home. Go to BC win and do the same thing. Part of it is that they aren’t good enough yet, the other that they haven’t learned to win together yet.
Kris, your lines look like a draft lottery team.
That’s not to rag on you. They’re the best lines I’ve seen. But seeing all those names thrown together like that really bangs home how much we’re going to lose this by.
At this stage, I’d call up Rob Schremp just for laughs.
It’s so hard right now to figure out what I want more for this team. On the one hand I would really love to see Hemsky back and watch the team go on a tear, and play some great hockey. Yet, at the same time, I know that it would be so much better for us long term to tank the season and get a couple nice pieces, finish selling off the old vets we have that still have value and hope the picks and prospects we get don’t shitt the bed.
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time we had a top 5 pick?
Many people have mentioned how the Oilers are a tweener team – never great, never terrible. Rarely has that resulted in consistent success for the club. Yet even teams like Pittsburg that have hit the motherload with high draft picks and superstars players aren’t getting it done. So what do you do? Sell the Oilers, buy Detroit, and move th whole org here? Cause seriously: I’m confused.
Yeah, the lines don’t exactly make my chest swell either.
I don’t know about a Schremp call up though. I wrote a few sentences and then deleted them. Tempest in a teapot and all that. But since you brought it up…
I can see people saying ‘now is as good a time as any to callup Schremp.’ But Schremp is just so damn soft, I don’t see him improving an already ridiculously soft top 9; I mean who do you sub Schremp in for? Gagner? Poo?
And, given how soft he is, there isn’t much point in playing him on the 4th line either.
(Schremp fans: no need to respond to this, I hereby agree to everything you’re going to say.)
Hemsky is officially on the IR. Nothing new there, but MacIntyre has been activated.
Do they send Smac down for conditioning and try to bring someone up in the meantime.
Or do we just imagine the possible line combo’s now?
And what happens when JDD has to get recalled next week? Or does he?
The clock is ticking on Tambellini.
I don’t think the clock is ticking at all on Tambellini.
On the contrary.
Like, what has he even done in the months since his ordination?
does a guy who spends 4 minutes on the ice (and another 5 in the penalty box) really need to be sent anywhere for ‘conditioning’?
Gary – you have to practice tying your laces somewhere
Many people have mentioned how the Oilers are a tweener team – never great, never terrible. Rarely has that resulted in consistent success for the club. Yet even teams like Pittsburg that have hit the motherload with high draft picks and superstars players aren’t getting it done.
Unleaded, you are looking at the wrong teams. If you fill in Boston, Washington, Chicago, and perhaps even Philly for Pittsburg, you end up with quite a different answer. (I don’t believe Pittsburgh is going to stay down for the season, either, but that’s a different conversation.) I know the comparisons are not perfect, but all our teams that spent some time at the bottom and used it to arm themselves adequtely to play at the top of the league.
Even LA should meet the criteria of an excellent tank-job within the next year or two. Move one of those blue-chip defenders for some help up front and they’re laughing.*
*laughter contingent on goaltender situation
According to TSN they just put hemsky on IR. hope this was just done so they could activate macintyre without sending anyone down. Hope this doesn’t mean hemsky is out for a lot longer. Good times.
Best player on IR.Second best player playing through obvious back problems.
This is the type of game the Oilers get out shot 57-12 and win 4-1.
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time we had a top 5 pick? Jason Bonsignore was the one and only in the history of the team, in 1994. We’ve had a whole bunch of guys at #6 — off the top of my head, Coffey, Smyth, Devereaux, Kelly, Gagner — and of course we’ve traded for all sorts of former high draft picks.
But Schremp is just so damn soft, I don’t see him improving an already ridiculously soft top 9; I mean who do you sub Schremp in for? Gagner? Poo? Sugartits: Softer than Poo.
Shawn Horcoff wouldn’t get back spasms if he was a real first line center.
Shawn Horcoff wouldn’t get back spasms if he was a real first line center.
Shawn Horcoff wouldn’t get back spasms if stats geeks would shut up.
Coach: I’m hoping that wasn’t a shot at me in particular. I’m mimicking Quain’s bit on the subject, mostly because I find it absolutely hilarious.
Sugartits: softer than Poo.
Bruce that is the best line I have seen online in a long time.
Coach pb9617 said…
But Coach, if the stats geeks shut up, what would we look at all day on the interweb?
I mean not all of us have Black Dogs… virility. Some of us need a break from… mainstream media sports news…
I’m hoping that wasn’t a shot at me in particular. I’m mimicking Quain’s bit on the subject, mostly because I find it absolutely hilarious.
No, no, it was inspired by the previous thread. A continuation of a running joke, ‘s all.
D2K: Ok, gotcha, I didn’t get through that whole previous thread.
I’m a fan of running jokes. Especially ones that reference Chevy Chase movies.
I love this blog if the Oilers play with as much fire as the blog has going Wile E. will be smiling tonight
Sugartits: Softer than Poo.
Post of the year candidate.
“Sugartits: softer than Poo”
You sound so self important.
My secret work for the government tends to bring out this characteristic.
Tough one for the boys tonight.
If I were MacT the message I would be giving is to 1) sell the short time frame (its just 60 minutes tonight boys) and 2)SJ is a good test for us (It would be a drag playing these guys every night/week, but they are a good test for us and let us know how we are improving.
Yeah yeah, its pretty basic, but that’s the message I would be selling to the team tonight.
Coach: I’m hoping that wasn’t a shot at me in particular. I’m mimicking Quain’s bit on the subject, mostly because I find it absolutely hilarious.
It’s not a shot. It’s the truth. Stats geeks have torpedoed the Oilers season, all love and defend MacTavish and forced Pocklington to trade Gretzky. If they would just shut up and see that Horcoff stinks and should be on the third line, that Schremp is quite possibly the best prospect in hockey, and that Nilsson is killing this team the Oilers would start winning again. It’s all their fault.
I can’t believe that true fans have allowed Kevin Lowe to create these stats geeks and let them run the team. He should fired for this.
Even if Horcoff is in the line-up, I think one point should be considered a victory tonight.
Speaking of points:
They could make 3 points for a win, 2 for an OT win, and 1 for an OT loss.
The only argument that I’ve heard against doing this, is some rot about not wanting to fuck up past teams points records.
As if anyone gives a toss about how many points team XYZ got 5, let alone 25 years ago.
I’d almost rather Horc sit this one out with the prospect of Big Joe pushing down on him all night.
My Sharks fan buddy is going to watch the game with me again tonight and I don’t have the same confidence I did when Roloson weathered the storm and the Oil pulled one off against the Sharks last go round.
It means the Oilers will win this one somehow. Cogliano with the hat trick.
I think I’ll need beers.
If Horcoff isn’t playing tonight he should be free to fix my clogged toilet.
I took a quick look at points/60 today at behindthenet.
All forwards must play at least 10 minutes EV a game and played at least 20 games so far.
Horcoff ranked 198th.
Talk about bonafide.
Those stats don’t matter though.
Dear lord, Moreau, cutesy stuff in your own zone AGAIN?
That’s the most disingenuous bullshit imaginable. With Bettman points and shootouts and a “winner” if not a loser in every game, all wins and points records in the book have been corrupted into meaninglessness. Teams, goalies, coaches, the works.
At least the “three point must system” as described in your post would return competitive integrity to regulation time. The stewards of the game have failed very badly in this respect. But hey, they’re great marketers.
As much as DeBrusk is bland, he’s right.
This is puck possession, not “skate by the puck or whack at it in a panicked state.”
Horcoff ranked 198th.
Hey look kids! There’s Big Ben! And there’s Parliament!
“Hey look kids! There’s Big Ben! And there’s Parliament!”
Not like you can say much more to defend such a pathetic stat.
I posted on this not too long ago. The 3 point game that exists in the NHL is brilliant PR, nothing more, nothing less. It sells HOPE to fans. The standings get bunched up and its sold as parity. Fans are told “we’re only 3 wins away from a playoff spot” when they are 6 points back when in reality, they could go 10-2 and not be any closer.
Traktor: No, Horcoff’s even-strength offense has been off all year. Of course it matters; a full 1.20 PTS/60 drop off from his numbers last year.
The good news is that he’s improving; with the exception of this last little stretch where he hurt his back lugging around Dustin Penner and a random AHL winger, he was increasing his offense. It wasn’t all that long ago he was below 1.00 PTS/60.
So, seems like the Oilers are pretty much even with a sieve in goal tonight.
Good players have bad stretches. And being a one-track broken record is the definition of pathetic.
The only thing more pathetic is the shit-pile goaltending Roloson gave the Oilers that period. Three BAD goals.
Beat ya, J.
Oilers looked in the game, for multiple seconds into that first period.
Looks as though Roloson is paying back the games he’s stolen from the Sharks of late.
The Oilers are truly Murphy’s team.
I thought they started out well, sagged when Roloson let in one crap goal, and sagged further when he let in the 2nd.
I think I am going to scream if they come back with 35 in the 2nd period. It’s clearly NOT his night.
What’s really pathetic, is when fans talk up their team as being “at .500″ when they’ve got say, a 14-14-5 record.
Talk about quantum mechanics made reality.
It’s starting to get comical how one aspect of the team always falters just when the others are starting to get in gear.
Did I just see Captain Courageous do the flamingo on the last goal? Gross.
The only thing uglier than that was Poo looking around like he lost his mommy at the mall.
It’s like driving a 1993 Ford Taurus….
Lowe and Tambellini are wrestling in the front office, as Tambellini tries to speed dial Pat Quinn.
Seconded. That’s five games below .500, and I don’t care what the media guys say.
He had an outstanding period up to that point. One of the better players on the ice in the period.
The game should be 1-0 Oilers.
Horcoff 3-3Brodziak 1-0Cogliano 2-2Poo 1-5
Does something not seem right here?
Also, based on the Sportsnet commercial, Doug MacLean isn’t coaching anywhere right now.
Maybe he could solve the Oilers problems. Worst case scenario, he could cover the GM position too
I’m sure if Pat Quinn was coaching that Nilsson would have scored on that breakaway.
I’m pretty sure the Taurus has more traction…
RE: The Nilsson Breakaway.
I wanted to put my fist through the TV. At that point, I was worried this was going to be a bad night.
And after seeing Roloson let in three goals shittier than anything I`ve seen from any Oiler goalie since the Chicago – I KNEW it was going to be a bad night.
Well the ’77 Habs couldn’t win with that goaltending. If I’m San Jose I’m firing from the can in the dressing room the rest of the night. We might see a goalie score ON A GOALIE at this rate.
Otoh Roloson’s bad eyes may qualify him for a career as a ref after he retires as a player.
Is it just me or did that intermission last an hour?
HA! I’ve been all over that the last few weeks and I wasn’t even paying attention to it tonight. I made the foray into chances tonight.
Damn. Back to the wing with you!
Is it hard to run:
Any combination ofStrudwick-Brod/Poo/Cogs/Nilsson-Storitini/Smac
Brodziak was the tenth best Goals and 1assist/60 offesive center at evens Last year. Tenth best! Tenth!
Your starting Storitini on the wing with Moreau and Pouliot.
We talk about how smart MacT is.
But right now he is that kid in the Far Side cartoon pushing as hard as f*** on the door with the pull handle.
Sometimes brain smart and reinventing does not work compared to trying the obvious.
He is handling this Team Like S***.
Tambellini your talk is needed again.
Keep talking, Traktor – Horcoff just had a pretty nice shift.
Seems like every time I rip a player he goes out and has a good game; if I’m not the only one, we may have found a way to get this team going.
I wish Gagner wasn’t so useless
The collective has been asking for it for awhile. He’s the only guy that hasn’t had a turn up there. It’s almost like Moreau not passing to Pouliot in the slot.
Hey, Alexei Semenov!
Is that the NHL equivalent of a coach saying, “I’m convinced this line won’t score”?
Semenov’s an interesting player and at this point in his career presents an interesting question: do his career numbers (178gp, 6-20-26 +1 215pims) cover a 36th overall pick?
Hm. Seems like we just recently had a discussion about statistics and the lack of general understanding of basic statistical concepts.
I wonder if I could dig up that link.
I think so. The 1999 draft is probably the weakest one I can remember, so if the numbers didn’t cover the pick anyway, with that taken into consideration I would suggest they do.
Further on the 1999 Draft:
1. Patrik Stefan2. Daniel Sedin3. Henrik Sedin4. Pavel Brendl5. Tim Connolly6. Brian Finley7. Kris Beech8. Taylor Pyatt9. Jamie Lundmark10. Branislav Mezei
By my count, that’s three real players (one with serious injury issues) and Taylor Pyatt.
It was an ugly draft.
//Your starting Storitini on the wing with Moreau and Pouliot. We talk about how smart MacT is.//
Haven’t people been screaming for Moreau and Stortini for months now?
Perhaps MacT is just trial running Moreau on the 4th line with Stortini, to see what it looks like and to get Moreau used to the idea, when Hemsky and Pisani are back.
Strudwick, Stortini, and MacIntyre.
Best puck-moving line ever.
I realize the options suck, but at this point, it’s probably worth questioning how many non-NHL forwards Zack Stortini can carry on his wing.
Apparently, Stortini can not only carry them, he can clear the zone after a defensive zone faceoff against the Thornton line.
If it was on the 4th line, it wouldn’t be an issue.
Right now, with Hemsky and Pisani out, that’s the wings on the 3rd line.
And that, my friends, is a big problem.
For many years I didn’t get WTBS and the Bravies broadcasts but when I did they were a crumbly team. This was maybe 1985 and they had Dale Murphy and not much else. I remember very well a game that resembles this one where Ken Griffey Sr walked to the plate and the announcers basically saying the team wasn’t worth watching. The team just didn’t have enough talent (Murphy aside) and the lineup that day had no young players in the lineup. They were D.O.A.
Of course that was just before they locked and loaded for a monster run at the top of the NL stretching out as far as the eye can see.
Do we see that kind of talent here? No. Is this team as hopeless as they appear to be? No.
But they’re shit on a stick without Hemsky, especially against a truly superior bunch. Sharks should have put them away by now though.
I can’t believe Macintyre took an icing with that line on the ice.
Further, I was stunned to see Stortini beat Thornton clean on the defensive zone draw. WTF.
BTW, at this point in time, Zack Stortini isn’t quite a top-nine forward on the Oilers:
But he’s no worse than 10th.
Commentators listing Sharks with no NHL goals.
It’s like they suspect that tonight could be their lucky night or something – any idea what would have given them that impression?
Moreau is one step removed from being completely useless. Seriously.
Could a package of Moreau/Staios land a 7th rounder from a contender?
I’d throw in Schremp just to get those contracts off the book at this point. Christ….
Moreau’s doing a lot of things well. Pouliot is basically an on-ice ornament with Ethan rifles on the LW, which gives us a chance to ask the question “does a veteran winger get called out for selfish play before the team gives up on the former first round pick or after?”
Souray’s injured too.
At what point do we shut ‘er down and get a good pick in a top-heavy draft?
LT: Yeah, Pouliot+Moreau= bad news.
Not to harp on MacTavish more on another depressing night, but why he continually puts them on the same line is beyond me.
Wow. This should be a fun stretch.
Well, if Souray IS hurt, I think the blueline replacement for the All Star game, seeing that they need an Oiler there, is obvious.
I have to disagree.
The things that he usually does well, he’s not doing enough of, or not doing consistently (driving the net, being a GOOD PK’er, taking ice aggressively, playing a simple game, helping the team get momentum).
The things that he usually never did before this season, he’s doing too much of (cute plays which he doesn’t have the hands for, weak chips along the boards in his own zone, horrendous giveaways in his own zone, not trusting his linemates, not taking responsibility for his own performance first before criticizing others’, circling back in his own zone like he’s Bobby Orr, trying to play a skilled puck possession game when he can’t).
Watching Moreau with Pouliot on his line is maddening. Seriously, it’s terrible leadership on the part of 18 – completely obvious he has no use for 78 for whatever reason.
And that is Shayne Corson-style crap, in terms of being a captain. Shameful.
This is an insane over-reaction, but since it’s a lousy night anyway, what would a real fire sale look like?
Roloson, Staios, Moreau, Cole – what else? Would that do it?
HBomb: Moreau doesn’t trust Pouliot. Pouliot probably doesn’t like Moreau. They keep getting sent out on the same line.
Do we take it out on Moreau, Pouliot, or MacTavish? I’d strongly suggest that MacTavish is a deserving target; he should either talk some sense into Moreau, or split the two of them up.
Cloned: I was kidding. He’s been awful. And with authority.
Moreau needs to own up and accept some responsibility. Until he does that, there will be a trickle-down effect of “well, if the captain ain’t doing it, why should I?”
Added to that, his implicit criticism of others on the team is eventually going drive a wedge in the locker room. Some guys take pride in the way they play. Moreau’s damaging a lot of that. (And he obviously has TOO much pride in his own game – note to Ethan, you’re not all that, stop acting like it).
I still won’t be shocked if Roli gets the next start though….
Roloson, Staios, Moreau, Cole – what else? Would that do it?
Mannnnn, why couldn’t they just have hung on until Fernie was healthy?
Fernie comes back, trade for Jim Dowd and they’re back in bidness.
Re: Moreau & Pouliot. Other than here in the blogosphere, has there been any discussion elsewhere about the issue between the two?
If this really is the case between the two and MacT is just allowing this that is absolute bullcrap.
Moreau is supposed to be a leader and for him to bull that and the Coach does nothing is completely inexcusable.
Pavel Brendl played about 15 minutes for Phoenix in 2005 and was on the ice for three goals against. NHL career: over. He’s a point per game player over in Sweden, though.
Dude scored 73 goals in the WHL as a 17 year old.
Kris Beech played 25 NHL games for 3 different teams last season.
I completely agree that (from what he’s said in interviews and done on the ice anyway) Moreau looks like a big problem.
That still goes back to MacTavish – IIRC, the coaching staff pick the captain in Edmonton. MacTavish has publicly called out half his roster, but has nary a word for his hand-picked captain.
It goes beyond Moreau; he’s a symptom, not the illness.
Jonathan: If we’re talking fire-sale, I think you’re out to a good start (although I’d still try to retain Cole at a reasonable rate if he’s willing to talk).
Another name I’d throw in, only because he’s an RFA and what he does is “en vogue” for teams to be adding – Grebeshkov.
Nilsson perhaps? Penner?
Maybe we should talk about who they don’t make available….
F: Hemsky, Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano, PisaniD: Visnovsky, Souray, Gilbert
Oh, my sarcasm detector is off tonight with Principe hosting the show.
Seriously, Moreau is off in his own little universe where games are being lost based solely on luck, where he can do no wrong, and where he feels he has some right to criticize the PP when the PK has been abysmal.
//But he’s no worse than 10th.//
His skating has greatly improved and is a straight line player.
if he could switch to the LW, I would not be against a
Fourth line when everyone is healty.
I never got Brendl: sure he’s a PPG player in Sweden, but he isn’t even a PPG player in the AHL.
It might be the case that if the locker room really is divided between the vets and the pups, that MacT doesn’t want to risk antagonizing his remaining supporters.
Pure speculation, but it’s starting to make more and more sense every passing day.
I agree Jonathan. It does go back to MacT in that he’s just oblivious (a joke) or he’s unable to force a change in attitudes (in which case having them out together is stupid).
Unless he wants them out together to that the problems don’t bleed to other lines.
Still, this is just unreal.
HBomb: Tom Gilbert > Denis Grebeshkov, but by how much?
If the trade value of Gilbert is much higher than for Grebeshkov, and Grebeshkov can be signed long-term for a lower dollar figure (say 2.5-3 M), I’d seriously consider moving Gilbert over Grebeshkov.
Another couple things for you to ponder, Jonathan:
1) Sunday is game 41 of the season. It is NOT premature to talk fire-sale. 22 more games to the trade deadline by my count.
2) I think this team needs a change in attitude in the leadership department. MacT and his two “guys” (Moreau and Staios) would be the targets, IMO.
Turn this team over to Horcoff, Souray and Hemsky, and go from there. Usually I think there has to be a seniority pecking order when it comes to choosing your next captain, but if they put the C on Souray, I could not argue it one bit.
Cloned: Maybe so, but that isn’t a theory that makes keeping MacTavish as coach nay more palatable.
I know I’m coming off as extremely anti-MacT right now when I’m really not, but I think it’s time for him to go.
This is the first Oilers team that I can think of where the established veteran character guys are clearly leading the way as far as being problems on the team.
My off limits list is short: Hemsky, Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano (new addition), Lubo.
I still think this team makes the playoffs, though. Tambellini needs to make a trade while Lowe is working on his comb-over.
Jonathan: Grebeshkov might have more raw skill, but Gilbert’s already inked for 5 years, and if it comes to a question of Grebeshkov at 3 million vs Gilbert at 4 million….I think Gilbert’s worth the extra million, based on being a better all-around player.
That being said, if you can ditch Staios and find this year’s Kurt Sauer to replace him for around half the price, the savings can go towards paying 37 and you keep both.
I’d trade Staios for someone like Ference, Ward, Eaton or Scuderi pretty quickly, if the GMs of the respective teams would be crazy enough to do it.
LT: You’d trade Souray? An all-star who actually openly admits to wanting to play in Edmonton?
Hbomb – Add Smid to that list and Brodziak, Pouliot and probably Zygmunt Stowaway as well – all cheap and guys who can play some role.
Fact is this team is where it was expected to be, in the mix.
They have been lucky with injuries until ten days ago and considering what some teams have lost – Luongo, Whitney and Gonchar, Green and Semin etc. I think the Oilers cannot ocmplain.
The question for management is twofold. If this club is being built for a run in the springs of 2011 and 2012, who helps that? Last year they decided Pitkanen wasn’t built for it. Who goes next summer? I would say Nilsson. I would say Grebeshkov just because they have a surplus of his type. He might end up being the best chip they have.
And Staios and Moreau. Both look to be done.
Second question is MacT the guy for this team going forward? I would say no.
We ahve been debating for months as to Tambellini’s real power. If this team does not make the playoffs and MacT and Moreau are here next fall then you know the answer.
If they are gone then the old boys’ club is, if not broken, at least shaken.
Jebus, so Souray jammed his thumb.
I’m going to bet on the square labeled “fractured”, and then take “over” if the over-under for time out of the lineup is 30 days.
LT: Depending on the injuries, this team should be a a playoff team. They really should. They should have made a trade by now too.
Here’s the question I have – since they aren’t a contending team this year, is it better for the future (starting next season) to move Staios and Moreau now (if possible)? I think it is. Both are inked long-term at big dollars for declining skills.
Then, the follow-up question becomes: if Moreau and Staios are dealt, should other veterans not in the long-term plans (Roli for sure, maybe Cole) be dealt too? I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was yes.
A little further reading on Kris Beech:
Picked 7th overall in the 1st round by Washington.
Traded to Pittsburgh in a package that included Michal Sivek and Ross Lupaschuk for Jaromir Jagr.
In 2006 Washington reacquired Beech from Nashville along with the Predator’s 1st round draft choice for… Brendan Witt (Current season: 30GP 0G 3A -25).
Jan 10, 2008: Claimed on waivers by Vancouver from ColumbusJan 23, 2008: Claimed on waivers by Washington from VancouverJan 26, 2008: Claimed on waivers by Pittsburgh from Washington
He’s technically been Capitals’ property on three seperate occasions.
Hard to play over/under when the team reports change every day.
Remember when Moreau’s “brusied bone” injury turned out to be almost season-ending?
cloned – regarding Souray, will he ever have much value then this season is the question?
And will he be this good two and three years down the road?
If the answer to question 2 is yes then keep him.
But if you think not then you move him because he could bring you a lot.
Its all about 2011 and 2012. Thsi team may get a playoff spot but they’re not winning anything.
BDHS: I cannot argue with a single thing you said there.
And I’d make Souray available, if he was OK with it. Could land quite the haul given his counting numbers this year, and we’ve got Visnovsky, so we can afford to move him.
Right now, the Oilers arguably have two legit #1 defensemen. Maybe trade from a strength to address a weakness?
Stortini gets his head driven into the ice by Staubitz. I think that’s dirty. And ugly. Shit…head AND ankle. That made me queasy.
Paging Tim Sestito?
Here’s a fun game – how many guys like Beech made it?
High pick who bounced around quite a bit and still found a career.
Cleary is one I can think of right away.
I remember when Beech was going ot be all that.
Hell I remember Max Middendorf.
Souray seems to be the type that you would want to keep for any sort of playoff run. He oozes veteran play – he knows how to buy time to make plays, he owns up to his own performance, he’s big, he can contribute at both ends of the ice and in all situations of play.
A lot can happen in 4 years – the rebuild won’t necessarily be linear in progression.
Stortini is probably out for a while. Schremp may get a call-up.
I’d trade Souray. Not because he’s a bad player but because the Oilers have a lot of money tied up in Dmen who aren’t “complete” players. Sheldon and Lubo make a ton of dough, so I’d move Sheldon for that big man up front.
Jonathan: I think the Oilers need to get back actual NHL players at this point. Dealing Staios is all well and good but the farm system doesn’t need more prospects. Even if you trade Staios for Semenov and Semenov doesn’t work out as a 6-7 option at least he’s insurance in case Peckham struggles.
They need actual players.
Geez. I hope Stortini isn’t hurting as badly as he looks like he’s hurting.
As improbable as that is.
Terrible as it sounds, Moreau going down and out like that right now would be a blessing for this team at this point.
And I’ll be surprised if Stortini’s ankle isn’t broken. The leg does NOT twist that way.
LT: They always need actual NHL players, because Kevin Lowe never picks up enough in free agency.
They’re there to be had – geez guys like Gelinas and Smolinski (who could help this team) never got signed at all.
What Staios brings is replaceable in the offseason. For less money. Ditto Moreau.
Agreed. Ironically, that’s what I said about Souray and LTIR last season. And he bounced back this season in a big way.
I’m hoping Moreau will follow suit. I’m not particularly optimistic though. Moreau seems to have too many character issues right now – I don’t think the team will ever gel unless he gets the boot.
Is Zachary ok? His mother and I worry so.
What Jonathan said re: moreau and staios
Jan Hejda and Kurt Sauer make less then Staios, right? And both play bigger roles.
And we’re talking about a bottom pair guy now.
I hate talking like that because Staios has given it his all and he’s a terrific guy apparently but a veteran sixth pairing guy costs like a million, if that, and a guy to play the fourth line and PK – well what do McAmmond or Donovan pull down?
cloned – yep you need the vets and you’re right on the whole rebuild thing, who knows what tomorrow brings?
Hell, the Yotes might fold (anyone read the Globe articles on that?) and they could get Turris or Mueller or take your pick in a dispersal draft.
But reality is their window likely opens in two years.
Firesale list (all off the top of my head):
1) Hemsky, Cogliano, Gagner, Visnovsky and Smid are untouchable.
2) Pouliot, Brodziak, Horcoff and Stortini are available for the right price; otherwise they’re kept.
3) Two of Souray, Gilbert and Grebeshkov are kept.
4) Cole is kept if he’s likely to sign a decent contract in the off-season; otherwise sent away.
5) Nilsson is dealt if he has value, kept if he doesn’t.
6) Staios, Moreau, Strudwick, and Roloson are sent away and replacements are signed from the UFA pool in the summer.
And now Robert Nilsson is going to join Ales Hemsky in the concussion ward.
Can the Oilers just forfeit now and get the hell off the ice?
I was just going to say how much I’ve liked 12′s game the last few times out…..
Remember when those two were best friends?
Seconded; whatever Staios does from here on out, he’s a favourite of mine.
But for the long-term financial health of the team, he should be traded and replaced.
Well not a pretty one. I wasn’t on board with a playoff prediction before they started dropping like flies. They’re still not far out but this is a team sending 33, 43 and 46 and they aren’t playing the Everblades or the Whoopee.
Likewise, in 2004, Ethan Moreau was a favorite of mine.
But if this team can send away Smith and Smyth, they damn sure better be able to send away Moreau and Staios, lesser players both….
I’d trade Staios for someone like Ference, Ward, Eaton or Scuderi pretty quickly, if the GMs of the respective teams would be crazy enough to do it.
I’d be wary of Eaton. He’s been beat up lately, he’s getting older and his supposed strengths are starting to fade.
Scuderi, on the other hand would be a fun addition. #6 Dman and easy minutes and leave him on the ice for entire PKs, heh.
Andy Sutton is on IR with a broken foot on Long Island. That would be an interesting option as well in a month.
moreau and astaois would make good playing coaches in Springfeild.
Good night lads, off to bed. Kids start skating tomorrow.
Bought the boy a helmet last night and he wanted to wear it to bed. ( I wear a helmet during most general household activities so not a big surprise )
Anyways he’s 3 so there’s something to look forward to in 2024. He’s not playing for anyone but the Oilers, no matter who drafts him in the seventh round.
He’s holding out!
Riv: I’d say a good team has ONE of Stortini/Strudwick/MacIntyre as their 13th forward.
When you’re icing all three on one night, injuries or not, that’s not a good thing.
Jonathan: Why in fuck would they deal Horcoff? It’s not possible to get equivalent value for him and his contract is reasonable.
It’s a shame his formative years were lost in the dark times of the Penguins development organization.
RiversQ: I thought about putting him on the untouchable list; but there’s definitely a hypothetical point at which I’d trade him.
As for his contract, I don’t mind it now, but I wonder if I’ll still like it in three years. Probably.
RE: Horcoff. Consider we have no other centers who shave more than once a week, I’d say he’s pretty damn close to untouchable at this point.
The only way they do deal him is if somebody offered up a guy like Spezza for Horcoff plus one other asset like a Grebeshkov.
If they want Horcoff plus Gilbert, that additional asset plus the additional money per year PLUS the fact that Spezza might not mesh well with Hemsky….well, no-go, I’d say.
Hey! Nilsson – Horcoff – Cole!
This passive 1-2-2 is painful to watch. They’re playing it in both the offensive and neutral zones, and it’s really not making it any more difficult for the opponent’s to initiate breakouts. Heck, we’re not even reducing the number of odd-man rushes that well.
I like that….could it handle power vs. power? Maybe….
JW: Fair enough but that’s a deal you can’t possibly win and there would be a lot of cost controlled years for a positive contributor doing the heavy lifting at ES. That deal will still be fine near the end barring serious injury.
Anyway I wouldn’t hold my breath for a teardown. Even when they screwed up the Smyrh negotiations and dumped the year, they still kept all the old parts around for some odd reason.
//Jonathan: Why in **** would they deal Horcoff? It’s not possible to get equivalent value for him and his contract is reasonable.//
48M cap in 10/11. Better will be had for 5-6M. Though it would have to be good assets coming back.
Theres talk of teams declaring chapter 7 in the states and maybe a team move to Southern Ontario. If that debt load/team is lost then revenue/team may still be decent.
Hbomb – Spezza? Really?
Your man is not someone you want on your club. Believe me.
I would trade Horcoff for an outscorer with more offensive ability then he who can play the tough minutes. No less.
Not many of them and not many that are playing for clubs looking to deal.
And the reality is at 5.6 its not a big win for clubs looking to shed salary unless they flip him anyway.
Second straight game that Penner has taken a sloppy holding penalty. He’s clearly gone to the Ethan Moreau school of stupid penalties.
Ok, so game 41 is Sunday, let’s give the Oilers the benefit of the doubt and say they beat the Blues….they’d be at 43 points. In other words, on pace for 2 points less than last year.
Just like some guys said before the season – this team could very well be clearly better than last year (they certainly are at ES) and end up around the same spot points-wise because the bounces wouldn’t go their way like last year.
Prophetic, they were…
The only way they do deal him is if somebody offered up a guy like Spezza for Horcoff plus one other asset like a Grebeshkov
Not that long ago I watched Horcoff play Spezza to a stalemate. Except that Spezza was teamed with Alfredsson (best player on that line) and Heatley while Horcoff was with Penner and some thirteen year old ginger.
rickibear: Like who?
I don’t see it. If the cap drops as you predict, it will be the middle class eating it again. The potential Horc replacements won’t be any cheaper IMO.
Well, that was fun.
The two biggest problems I see with this team right now are:
1) The 1-2-2. It’s not working, they’re not making significant progress, and I’m starting to get worried that our youngsters aren’t learning anything valuable about systems play from this setup.
2) The locker room. There’s some major issues bubbling under here imo, and like a volcano it will erupt if given sufficient time and pressure.
I can’t believe the Oilers are losing!
Although they’d be winning if MacTavish hadn’t lost the room.
BDHS – I guess I should have been more clear, in that I was using Spezza’s name as a hypothetical.
I know the score on that guy, and I can’t say I’d be shit hot on them moving Horcoff for Spezza. Talent wise, it’s not close, but….
Beyond that, my belief is that the best place to look for a first line upgrade is on LW (outside of Hemsky, Horcoff’s the most legit 1st line forward on the squad), and of high-end guys potentially available, the best fit for what the Oilers need is a guy who currently plays LW in the state of Georgia….
My mind tells me that this team has way more talent than they show, but….
My heart has no interest anymore. It feels like this is the worst, least hopeful, team the Oilers have ever had. In past years, I could at least pretend that there was someone who was going to ‘crank it up’ and do something awesome. At least guys like Torres, Isbister, and marchant would fool you every so often into thinking that there was some secret talent somewhere….this bunch is so boringly pathetic that I dont know if I can watch anymore.
Kick a ginger.
And of course for all the Horcoff haters out there (and Smyth haters for that matter), there was that little playoff run where they outscored Thornton etc all the while having RW like Todd Harvey and Winchester among others.
Rickibear – if this club had a couple of young centres who looked to step into that role then you might get value for that money.
But Hemsky is up in 2012. Do you see anyone on the current roster playing Thornton or Datsyuk or Toews to a standstill other then Horc? And why would a team give up a guy cheaper then Horc to do that job?
Unless they can flip him to a club making a run next year who figures he’s a significant upgrade on a kid they have then and there.
Can’t think of a possibility.
I’m not a huge fan of picking up a big-ticket item at this point; the team isn’t good enough that it will make the difference, and too many young guys still have question marks around them.
That said, will this team ever use Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano to centre three seperate lines? And if not, is one of them moving to the wing? And finally, if not, which gets moved, and when?
Black Dog: Vancouver.
But I’m not convinced that Kesler will have the offensive game any time soon; it’s too much of a gamble.
If anything is to be learned from the Reasoner/Reason’r/Walz/Dowd fiasco – don’t use existing human beings as hypotheticals.
slipper: See my above reply to BDHS.
Guess I should have used a better example than Spezza, I just picked his name out because he’s been mentioned in the rumor mill.
I’m OK with Horcoff-Gagner as the “Brind’Amour/Staal” style 1-2 centre punch for the next five years. Mostly because I think Gagner is something special….
LW, on the other hand….for a spot that has been a position of strength for the Oilers for the last decade it seems (even last year, Penner-Nilsson-Torres-Moreau-Glencross was the depth chart), it’s nothing short of a mess right now.
I gather — since the topic is Moreau, and this didn’t come up — that no one saw the first couple of minutes of the pre-game on RSN West. Kevin, Louie, and Gene were absolutely gushing about the captain, without a single remotely negative comment (not even any faint praise).
Naturally, I thought to myself, “Well I wonder why those moron commenters at Lowetide have so little good to say about the guy.”
(Actually, that’s not what I thought.)
My frustrated brain talking….
The last time Penner did anything was three games ago when he punched someone…
Its fun watching Cole skate really fast and lose the puck randomly
Maybe JDD will come back from the A and be a superstar so that we can win a few games
When Sortini and Strudwick are your great hope for the evening…you are in serious trouble
When you think its necessary to put a HUGE AHL fighter in the lineup in the hopes that he hits someone and that his hit makes your team play competitively, perhaps your team needs a different kind of wakup call…
I used to complain about the Oilers teams that would suck for 40-50 minutes and then storm back and lose a close one…I am starting to long for this again as it is much better than a team that sucks for 60 minutes most nights.
Matt – if you saw the Terry Jones article on Oiler New Year resolutions, Moreau was the only player who got his ass kissed by “Large”.
It’s pathetic how overrated that guy is.
this bunch is so boringly pathetic that I dont know if I can watch anymore.
That nails it on the head. I suffered through the early 90′s teams ’cause they tried to play. Does this team? I don’t know the reason, but I have to hope that Tambellini knows, since everyone else has been here for a while and has created this multi-headed monster.
The roster talent is an issue, but it’s not like it isn’t there. Boston has a similar roster composition (you can look at the comparisons up and down and they are eerily similar to the Oilers) and they’re doing spectacularly well with it.
This boils down to locker room and fundamental systems/execution issues.
Gotcha Hbomb, so he’s Jim Dowd. Or is it Marty Reasoner?
Ok, so if you’re going for the home run, here’s the deal.
Apparently Lecavalier is being shopped. He’s a Spezza type I would say. They’re dumping him to get rid of his contract, if its true.
So you’re looking at prospects and picks, which is fine.
But then you have to shed some salary, which is ok too.
Put it this way. To get Bouwmeester, Kovalchuk, Vinny – you need to give up primo picks and prospects.
These teams are bleeding money and have no interest in Horc, Gilbert, Souray etc.
Now if I were Tambellini I would be calling Phoenix and targetting guys just on the cusp of making money.
They are completely fucked. So a guy who is on entry level and up for a raise to 3M next year is going to be on the table.
And that guy, 2nd or third year guy, will be on track for 2011 and 2012.
And you’re giving up guys who will not be.
That is what I am doing if I am Steve T.
I have always been a fan of the rebuild and, ironically, the Cap has made it easier (rebuild on steroids I call it now).
Hemsky, Gagner, Cogliano, Brodziak*, Smid* and Cole*
* being on that list has a lot to do with next contract so expect Cole to be gone
Probably keep regardless because cheaper/better replacement would be very hard to find:
Strudwick (the winger), Stortini
Better get a great deal on if they are moved:
Horcoff, Lubo and Gilbert
Moved because I need to get premium assets:
Grebs, Souray and Penner
Moved because they are useful parts for some team:
Pouliot (that hurts) and Nilsson
Moved because they just need to go:
Staios, Moreau, Garon and Roloson
Parts with which to grease wheels in good trades:
Schremp, Brule and Chorney
Rebuild on steroids ready to begin.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again – target Pittsburgh. My next targets would be Colorado, Nashville, Florida and then Carolina – in that order. Ottawa would have been a nice pigeon but they have fallen so far I think they are ready to call it a day soon.
coach – You do know Wes Walz is retired, right?
Now I do hear that Bob Pulford is available.
Jonathan – maybe this year?? But Kesler is UFA next year. They’d need to sign him.
Interesting one. But I think the Nucks go with what they have up the middle.
Here’s a fun problem: this team entered the season with Pisani, Moreau, Penner, Cole, Broziak and Pouliot as possibilities to handle tough minutes (outside of 10-83).
Pisani’s hurt.Moreau’s game has disappeared.Penner’ been OK.Cole’s been OK, but not as a checker.Pouliot and Brodziak weren’t trusted by the coach early, or by the vets now, and both are growing into the role.
By my count, there are only two players on this team that I would trust on the ice against, say, Pavol Demitra or Milan Hejduk.
That’s a huge problem.
About two damn years ago Vic would drop by and say things like “two years until Tavares!” and I’d smile because you know it’s two bloody years and who the hell does that?
WHO THE HELL DOES THAT?
I’ve said it before and I will say it again – target Pittsburgh.
What in the world can you get back at this point? Staal is not in the picture anymore because that contract is awful, and Whitney is Gilbert without any sandpaper whatsoever. Not even an emery board in Gaylord Perry’s palm.
Crosby and Malkin obviously aren’t moving anywhere. Letang and Goligoski are the only cheap affordable pieces on the roster. I think Shero just screwed himself with this Staal deal.
Lecavalier, eh Pat?
I saw that today, including the article with Len Barrie denying the whole thing.
Given how much a snake that is, who knows what it could mean.
But hey, it’s worth a phone call, right? Tampa’s going to want young and cheap, and really, even though Lecavalier’s a top-ten player in this league, that long term deal is going to depress his value somewhat.
Other alternative is to clear salary if you can and hope like hell that, for some unexplained reason, Detroit can’t afford an extension for Zetterberg. He can play LW or C…..
Please include a dual offer sheet to Dubinsky and Zherdev in your rebuild plans.
That is all.
I don’t mean this literally, b/c I know they never let him go, but is there an Iginla-type leader out there? Not that we need a guy to score like him, but someone who will pull a whole team on his back to ensure there is try there.
Again, I’ll reference the Bruins roster…
They had two supposedly “average” goaltenders, a top-six winger with size who plays soft and lacks motivation (Ryder), an all-star forward known more for playmaking than scoring and physical play (Savard), several youngsters who’s production and ability to handle minutes were in question (Krejci, Wheeler, Nokelainen, Lucic, Kessel), a checker whose reputation outweighed his recent performance (Axelsson), a coach known for defensive play (Julien), support forwards who have been inconsistent in the past (Kobasew, Sturm), and a defense corps with two all-stars and a bunch of tweeners (Chara, Wideman, Stuart, Ward, Ference, some youngsters).
Any similarities you see with the Oilers?
They had just as many question marks coming into this season as the Oilers, and in the same areas (ES play, maturation of young players, size up front, physicality on defense, effort level).
They’re in position 1 and we’re in position 11.
I still can’t get over the fact that on the 2006 deadline Nashville traded their 1st rounder and player to Washington for Brendan Witt.
YKOil- What kind of great assets would you expect to get for Penner? (keep in mind that he comes with his contract, his attitude and his on again/off again gut)
- who does that leave in net…JDD or perhaps Strudwick (MacT might just do it you know!)?
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September 15, 5:05 pm by raventalon40
September 15, 5:05 pm by Lowetide