Oilers at Kings, G55/08-09

I think it must be fairly difficult to be a successful professional hockey player in Los Angeles. There are a lot of activities and distractions. Historically, the Los Angeles Kings have played like a team with one eye on the ice and the other checking out the crowd.

Here’s hoping the young Kings have that problem today. The Kings offer us a really nice look into the future and are the counter argument to flusing the season. You can say the current Oilers should flush the season, trade Roloson to the Wings for a pick or a prospect, and live to fight another day.

However, they’re already behind several teams who are in rebuild mode (Chicago the obvious example) and some of the trailing teams (LA, PHX) are coming on strong.

The Los Angeles Kings are frightening now that they have goaltending. They are loaded:

  • Drew Doughty is 19.
  • Oscar Moller and Wayne Simmonds are 20.
  • Anze Kopitar is 21.
  • Jack Johnson is 22.
  • Jonathan Quick is 23.
  • Dustin Brown and Patrick O’Sullivan are 24.

Let’s compare that group to the Oilers:

  • Sam Gagner is 19.
  • Andrew Cogliano is 21.
  • Ladislav Smid is 23.
  • Robert Nilsson and Kyle Brodziak are 24.

Talk rebuild all you want, that ship has sailed and the contenders for a Stanley in 2012 are miles ahead. The Edmonton Oilers are as they’ve been since the Messier trade: between a rock and a hard place. I think the better plan is to add a few pieces and get Hemsky, Horcoff and Gilbert some more playoff experience (in Gilbert’s case his next playoff game will be the first).

Either way, the Oilers have to address defense today. This time next week may be too late.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.

375 Responses to "Oilers at Kings, G55/08-09"

Newer Comments »
  1. Showerhead says:

    Good morning! An all nighter Thursday for 4 different assignments/projects and an incredibly serendipitous invitation to drink with some folks I hadn’t seen in a while have left me in somewhat of a sleepless daze. Oh yeah, and I’m at work.

    So I can’t sleep.

    Here’s your chance folks, shoot your barbs at Showerhead while he’s too dazed to defend himself! I’ll be on the net all morning hoping there are other commenters afoot.

  2. Doogie2K says:

    It really is too bad this team couldn’t find a goalie to save its life for half the season, because any team that can prevent shots to the tune of just a quarter-shot per game worse than the Sharks — and no one else — should be in a playoff spot.

    This trip feels a little like the seven-game road trip this time two years ago: .500 seems like a reasonable expectation, yet the team has to come out with much more than that in order to continue to look serious, to say nothing of what we need other teams to do. I’ve mentioned this elsewhere, but it would be really nice if the Flames could win all their non-Oilers games from here to the end of the month, because all six of their remaining games are against bubble teams. We guaranteed their playoff spot by beating the Dys at the end of last year: they owe us, I’m sure. ;)

    As for addressing the defence, I hear that Pronger guy in Anaheim’s on the block: he’s pretty good, isn’t he? He doesn’t have an NTC, wonder if we should go after him?

  3. Showerhead says:

    As for your post Lowetide I think you’re right and it might be unfortunate that you are. The Oilers aren’t completely devoid of young talent but they don’t have the depth of it that LA does or Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington, the New York Islanders (come June).

    Are Hemsky, Gagner, Cogliano good enough to build around? Absolutely, but I can’t count the things that would need to bounce right for this team to turn into a legitimate contender anytime soon.

  4. Showerhead says:

    Doogie, re: Pronger. Catch his comments regarding his powerless role in any impending trade?

    “I have NO control over what the management and/or ownership do with respect to the team, I am merely an employee.”

    My how things have chanced.

  5. Doogie2K says:

    Also, I tried to look for a way to feel less dirty about finding other teams to help us out, but apparently of the top four, no other team plays Western bubble teams more than three times from here to the first of March, and none of the bottom feeders are so far out of it I’m willing to root for them as spoilers. So…crap. This is gonna suck.

    Goilers, if for no other reason than to put yourselves in control of your own destiny.

  6. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide as you usually are, you’re right. Oilers have been spinning their collective wheels since 199-bloody 1.

    You would imagine a guy as astute as Katz would realise that the key to NHL success is to get those top draft picks for a few years running, and go from there.

    What’s all this about 2012? Sounds a bit like that Rush album. Hemsky’s contract? Anyway, there’s very very little to suggest that this Oilers team is going anywhere in 2012, or whatever incredible season the fans and front office like to imagine is “just around the corner”.

    Showerhead: You don’t really want to be doing those all-nighters. All that proves is that you’re totally shit at time management. Cheap shot ended. :P

  7. oilerdago says:

    Interesting, we keep talking about how certain games/road trips are becoming more critical and yet only 1 trade so far this season.

    The ship has sailed on playing Roli until the wheels come off and I wonder that even if we address the holes that have now opened on D that we’ll have enough to get to the playoffs.

    And once we get there we’re still looking at a first round blow out.

    Now that I’ve shed all that sunlight on things, I do hope that they make some move.

  8. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    LT:

    And there’s more.

    Quincey is 23

    Purcell is 23

    Hickey is 20

    Teubert is 18

  9. Showerhead says:

    Hunter: I don’t mean to be critical, but really? Time management? I think that somewhere, really deep down, I expected more. Thanks for keeping it civil though.

  10. Showerhead says:

    Worst. News. Possible.

    The Tim Horton’s in this building is closed.

  11. Lowetide says:

    The thought of a Tim Horton’s closing is insane. Why would they close? Too much profit?

  12. Traktor says:

    Boyle is a nice prospect as well, although he’s struggled a little this year.

    The 6’7 250 pound former 1st round pick netted 31 goals in 70 games in his first pro season after a solid NCAA career.

    This team could really use a prospect like that.

  13. Clarkenstein says:

    On paper this trip might be lucky to yield the Oil 1 point out of a possible 8. Yet they usually manage to pull something out of their ass to keep our interest for another 3 or 4 games. But this time I’m not so sure. Roller coasters sometimes make me puke… this one is no different.

  14. Lowetide says:

    Maybe Jacques can play D. I just re-read Showerhead’s post and it sounds like TH isn’t open YET.

    Which is equally insane.

  15. doritogrande says:

    The Tim Horton’s in this building is closed.

    Welcome to Reading Week. You might have to go out to the one in Frank Kennedy if you’re desperate. That one usually stays open saturdays because of all the kiddie activities taking up my gym time.

    By the way, any idea if the sciences and tech library is open? I have to go grab some reserve material.

  16. mjsh says:

    I would be willing to bet that a big time forward comes here this summer. If the Oil can keep the top four d-men and get decent goaltending and stay healthy, 2010-2011 should be the year for a run.

  17. Traktor says:

    Vyacheslav Voynov also deserves some press. The 19 year old leads all Manchester Monarchs defenders in points. Pretty impressive.

  18. Scott says:

    At some point I think one needs to have faith that we can beat teams that are below us in the standings. This trip is no tougher than the last one in St. Louis, Detroit and Minny and they came out 3 for 6. I’d imagine that 4 for 8 is a pass here. They should be able to win the first two outright, the B2B in SJ is a game for JDD and then we’ll see what they can do in Dallas. If they’ve got four in the bag in Dallas, the pressure is off a bit.

  19. dstaples says:

    The day Pronger arrived, the Oilers weren’t spinning their wheels, though that day didn’t last too long, of course.

    So, all in all, it hasn’t been great since 1991, though 1993-2000 were much worse than 2001-2008 … for what it’s worth.

  20. Doogie2K says:

    The thought of a Tim Horton’s closing is insane. Why would they close? Too much profit?

    I don’t understand it, either. They closed all the Tim Horton’s in the Saddledome, too, and replaced them with Good Earths. The coffee is worse, the hot chocolate is worse, there’s no donuts, and the one right at the top of the stairs in my section is closed for most Hitmen games, anyway, whereas the Timmy’s that was there previously had lines all the way across the concourse, 20-30 deep, most intermissions. WTF, Saddlesore management.

  21. DBO says:

    With Mact again mentioning ths week that we need to win faceoffs, does it make senmse to pick up Chris gratton off waivers (Tampa just put him back on). Gratton in the 18 games with the big team has won 62.2% of his faceoffs. Including 65% short handed. He’s 32, and while slowing dowen he is a veteran that can kill penalties, has size (6’4, 226lbs), and is a left handed shot. post lockout he has had 17, 13 and 10 goals (in 76, 81, 60 game splayed). he would cost us nothing, fills a need for a veteran centre that can win a faceoff and is an UFA next year with a small price tag for this year ($1.2 million).

    maybe i’m crazy but isn’t this exactly the kind of player we need to help us right now? Then we can use some of our assets to land a goal scorer and a defenseman?

  22. Scott says:

    MacT on Grebs:

    “Pretty significant tear”

    “Re-evaluate after four to six weeks.”

  23. knighttown says:

    Talk rebuild all you want, that ship has sailed and the contenders for a Stanley in 2012 are miles ahead

    Hopefully I’m not reading this wrong but it sounds like you are insinuating that Chicago, Phoenix and LA are the top contenders for the Stanley Cup in 2012 beacause they have young talent. Simplifying, take the top 5 from any given HF list or THN Future Watch, add 5 years and there are your Cup contenders? Is that fair?

    I don’t think things are anywhere near that linear. The teams that I’d put money on to be contending for the Cup in 2012 are the teams that are contending for a Cup in 2009.

    Detroit- Zetterberg and Datsyuk are in their prime and are signed for the best part of a decade for below market rate.

    San Jose- Sure Blake is old but do you really see a team with Thornton, Marleau, Setoguchi, Boyle, Michalek, Ehrhoff, Vlasic and Nabakov being anything but elite?

    Boston- Savard and Chara will still be good and Kessel, Lucic, Wheeler, Wideman and those two d-men (Lashoff and ?) are all young. Their goalies may slide by 2012 but they’ve got Tukka freaking Rask ready to play today.

    The point is, if you want to put your money on the Islanders as someone has said, I’ll put my money on a team with good management like Ken Holland or LL or Doug Wilson. I suppose the equation doesn’t help the Oilers much more than yours does but I think it’s more realistic. Only a select few teams from recent memory have gone from bottom feeders to Cup contenders and Chicago and Washington may join that group this year but for every Ottawa or Tampa that falls of the face of the earth, there are two New Jerseys that are good forever.

  24. dstaples says:

    And not to nitpick your post, LT, but Grebs and Gilbert are both in the young category, both just 25, entering prime 5-8 years of their careers as NHL defencemen.

    Again, though, the overall thrust is right in that some other teams have more and better talent than the Oilers.

    The Oil need a few late-round, entry draft miracles, no doubt about it.

  25. Lowetide says:

    dstaples: 25 year olds should be (or be close to) carrying the mail. Plus Gilbert (and soon Grebeshkov) are being paid the good money.

    No sir. No one can convince me we won’t be back here in 2012 saying “flush the season and go for next year” like we’ve done since forever.

    If you make a mistake once or twice, then it’s a learning curve. When you do it for decades it’s your problem.

    Your Edmonton Oilers have been mediocre with young talent and with old talent, mediocre with no money and lots of money.

    So what elements have remained the same throughout?

    Exactly.

  26. DeBakey says:

    Where to find
    Waldo the Defenceman?

    On the rosters of a KHL teams not winning anything this year,
    one finds former NHL 1st Round Picks:
    -Bryan Berard
    -Kirill Safronov
    -Andrei Zyuzin
    -Branislav Mezei

    Plus guys like
    Dallman & Kwiatkowski

    Would any of them be work the attache case of rubles it'll cost?
    Would they get through waivers?

  27. Showerhead says:

    Sadly, doritogrande, I am at Max Bell so FKC is the closed Timmy’s to which I refer. And there are a shit ton of people here for a track meet so you know there’s money to be had in staying open.

    Also sadly, LT, it’s not open and it’s not opening at all for the next week and a half. It’s inhuman really, but then I suppose it makes the odds of JFJ playing D all the stronger.

    PS – I think you’re looking at 9-5 library hours at Science and Tech. Most libraries are closed Monday but should be open during RW

  28. DBO says:

    And while we’re at the waiver wire, why not pick up Frantisek Kaberle who was put on waivers by carolina. Veteran offensive defenseman who has seen his ice time reduced this year but is still an offensive player who could be on our 2nd PP unit and our bottom 6 pairing with Staios/Smid. He costs us nothing. the risk being he has one more year left at $2.2 million. With katz and his money would it make sense to sign him and use him this year, and then have him play in the minors next year in order to stash his cap hit? Isn’t that the point of a rich owner? Take a page from the Devils and Lou, and stash the vets in the minors where their cap hit is gone, not to mention the fact that our minor league team could use some help.

  29. doritogrande says:

    @showerhead:

    Well fuck. There goes any semblance of logic I used to have.

    Thanks for the heads up though.

  30. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    @knighttown

    Everything you say is true but if Detroit, Chicago, & SJ do as you expect, then you have to look at which other 5 teams will join them on the playoff dance floor.

    Based on prospect strength and depth, you'd have to favour LA, Columbus, Phoenix and St. Louis with the Oilers, Dallas, Vancouver, Calgary fighting for WC scraps.

  31. dstaples says:

    LT, was not Grebs carrying the mail this year? That’s what I saw, a valuable player, strong by all statistical measures, to boot.

    Now, some would say Visnovsky was driving the bus here, lifting up Grebs’ stats. That’s not how I saw it. I saw a guy right up there with some of the solid Soviet defenders of the past, a guy who had come into his own.

    At this point (before that assinine and potentially disastrous slew foot by Plekanec) Grebs is an elite talent.

  32. DBO says:

    So if we did acquire Gratton, and Pisani comes back our lineup could be:
    Horcoff – Hemsky – Penner
    Cogliano – Gagner – Nilsson
    Gratton – Pisani – Cole
    Brodziak – Moreau – Pouliot

    that’s a much deeper team. Although we lack a true goal scorer to go with Hemsky, we have a solid lineup, with three lines who can lift heavy and one uber soft line that maybe recaptures their magic from last year.

  33. DBO says:

    dstaples: as for grebeshkov. he has played well (one or two “oh no” moments per game aside). But i guess can we afford to pay him $4 mill next year? Or should we be looking to move him in the off season to get a scoring winger?

  34. dstaples says:

    If this team can't afford Grebs, Lowe should be fired for salary cap mismanagement, IMO.

    Lowe has simply got to find a way, though it could be that Grebs is one of those guys who doesn't like all the travel that comes with playing in isolated Edmonton, so there could be complications with this signing.

    But Grebs > Gilbert, and Grebs is also much younger than The Viz and Souray.

  35. DeBakey says:

    But i guess can we afford to pay him $4 mill next year? Or should we be looking to move him in the off season to get a scoring winger?

    Benjamin posted yesterday about the faling Cap for 2010.
    I think the severity of the fall is overstated.
    Buyt even so,
    for 2010, the Oilers should probably be looking at Wild or Chorney playing in Grebs’ spot for under $1 Million per.

  36. HBomb says:

    But Grebs > Gilbert, and Grebs is also much younger than The Viz and Souray.

    Grebs > Gilbert? No f'n way. Not even close at this point.

    That being said, if Grebeshkov needs to get paid, you ditch Staios, simple as that.

    Also, if it's a "tear" and they're saying "re-evaluate in 4-6 weeks", don't wast time – surgery NOW, have him ready for next September.

  37. Traktor says:

    Frantisek Kaberle would be a horrible pickup.

    Guys,

    Our top line C has 1 goal in the last 18 games. Horcoff is getting outpointed by Rene Bourque!

    Brad Winchester has more goals than Sam Gagner or Robert Nilsson.

    Our top line LW has spent most of his time on the 3rd or 4th line.

    Even though Horcpensky has produced decently on most nights we have a coach who’s either too stupid to realize the effectiveness of the line or too stubborn to set his grudge aside.

    2 of our top 4 defenders are out for the season.

    Erik Cole is getting outproduced by Rich Peverley who was a waiver wire pickup a few weeks ago.

    We have absolutely zero grit! ZERO!

    Pouliot gets concussed and who steps up? Nobody.

    Hemsky gets ran by Buffy and who steps up? Nobody.

    Tomas Plekanec tried to terminate Grebeshkov’s career and who did anything about it? Not one soul.

    It’s one thing if it’s a 2-1 game but that fact is Edmonton had that game won and not one player said Boo.

    For all the talk about “tight” team I call bullshit. This team doesn’t give a shit about each other or their too pussy to do anything.

    Either way, the notion that we can just “hit a switch” and turn on a different, tougher mentality once we get into the playoffs is hogwash.

    This team has the collective heart of Vince Carter.

    Pouliot? The guys a center and the coach says,

    1. He doesn’t like him at center
    2. Pouliot just hasn’t found his niche.

    Which brings me back to a quote earlier in the season:

    “I don’t know what’s going on – I have new linemates every practice.” – Pouliot

    Well I wonder why he can’t out his role.

    Reddox? This guys barley an NHLer but he’s giving opportunities like he’s a top 10 pick. Developmental time is an extremely expensive resource – yet were wasting it on a guy who’s potential realized could be had for 3rd or 4th round pick. Another small waterbug that does nothing to intimidate opposing players. No wonder guys like Plekanec takes cheap shots on our players. It’s not like he’ll have to be held accountable – is accountable even a word in Edmonton?

    ……

    And we’re talking about bringing in Kaberle? Or Jim Dowd?

    Come on people.

    This team is going nowhere – forget about these dime a dozen veteran hacks.

    “Teams should either be ascending rapidly or descending rapidly.” – Burke

    Hacks like Reasoner or Joe Blow 7th defensemen just ensure that we stay the same; mediocre.

  38. Phil says:

    LT said: No sir. No one can convince me we won’t be back here in 2012 saying “flush the season and go for next year” like we’ve done since forever.

    If you make a mistake once or twice, then it’s a learning curve. When you do it for decades it’s your problem.

    Very well put LT.

    If I was Katz, I would approach Steve Yzerman, give him whatever money it took to get him to take over this team, and give him full control. This team needs a fresh EVERYTHING. Outlook. Management. Scouting. Coaching.

    I just think Stevie Y has nothing but class, he has the respect of everyone in hockey, he’s close enough to his playing days to know what is required in the “New” NHL, and people will want to play for him. Nuff said.

  39. Lowetide says:

    Grebeshkov sounds like Ray Bourque in this thread. I understand losing both Visnovsky and Grebeshkov is massive, but why flush the season?

    Kevin Lowe’s one absolute skill during his regime is an ability to find useful blue.

    He needs to find one rfn.

    dstaples: I’d say Grebeshkov has been #4 of 7D on the Oilers this season and he’d be about that next season. Gilbert is a better player and the money men on the blue are also better at this time and will be next season (if healthy) imo.

  40. HBomb says:

    Ah, Valentine’s Day. So has anyone here been to Ruth’s Chris?

    I’m taking the current female pursuit there tonight and am wondering what I should expect in terms of the beating the night may lay on my Visa.

  41. godot10 says:

    //Your Edmonton Oilers have been mediocre with young talent and with old talent, mediocre with no money and lots of money.
    So what elements have remained the same throughout?//

    The Oilers were in survival mode as a franchise for a decade before the lockout. The mission was to be ready post lockout, and they were.

    But then Pronger’s wife screwed up the post-strike era. And we are into the second year of a rebuild after Pronger nuked the team. The defense has been rebuilt, and they are living through growing pains and a couple of holes at forward.

    The new owner is also now a definite difference.
    The drafting has been getting better. Sather and Fraser left Lowe with very little, and it took a few years to fix the scouting, and we are now seeing the benefits of that.

    Lowe and MacT are not perfect, and they can be exasperating at times, but the circumstances post lockout came with black swan events that are distorting clear thinking about them. They are both competent, and with Katz and Tambellini and better scouting and a cap, it is far less of a two man show.

    Bill Cowher was given a really long time by the Rooney’s in Pittsburgh. Tony Dungy still has only one Super Bowl victory.

    MacT has shown that he knows the mediocrity is no longer good enough. There is a new GM and owner, so MacT knows he is on the clock.

  42. Traktor says:

    “I understand losing both Visnovsky and Grebeshkov is massive, but why flush the season?”

    Why spent assets on a lost cause?

    I’m not saying we have to tank but spending say, a 2nd round pick + Theo Peckham on Bill Guerin only does one thing – delay real success. Save the resources for when we actually have a chance.

    When 90% of your forwards are struggling you look to next year. Simple as that. Or fire the coach.

  43. Black Dog says:

    Best chance this season, really, is one round in the playoffs. With Lubo and Grebs this club needed help everywhere but on the blue they just needed depth. Now they need big help there as well.

    They cannot flush the season but trading anybody of value going forward for a rental so they can go out in six rather than five is stupid. So don’t trade Nilsson or Smid or any prospect that you like. Also keep the first round pick. Not for a rental.

    This team has a lot of holes as Traktor just pointed out. And they have too much salary committed to too few players.

    Its a mess and they have to figure it out. I just don’t think that they, having made the mess, have the sense to clean it up.

  44. Black Dog says:

    What Traktor just said re: moving Peckham for Guerin.

    You want to know a club that moves prospects and picks for veterans in eternal pursuit of a playoff spot, only to be ousted in the first or second round?

    The Leafs.

  45. HBomb says:

    Simple solution to “the blue”. Call the Sharks and tell them to put Kyle McLaren on re-entry waivers.

    Problem solved.

    If not for him having one more year on his deal, I’d take Frantisek Kaberle off waivers – he’d help.

    In terms of trades, anything beyond moving third-tier prospects of the lost cause that is Robbie Schremp (only a lost cause from the position that he’s not getting anywhere in THIS organization with THIS coach) doesn’t make sense.

    Don’t waste assets to be Detroit’s first-round bitch. Either hold fast and try to make it with what you have, or even better, go into sell mode and see what Roloson, Staios, Moreau and Cole fetch you on the open market.

  46. geowal says:

    re:Traktor
    “Teams should either be ascending rapidly or descending rapidly.” – Burke
    Hacks like Reasoner or Joe Blow 7th defensemen just ensure that we stay the same; mediocre.”

    So would it be safe to say you advocate ‘tanking’, or at the very least deadline selling, to ensure our rapid descent?

  47. geowal says:

    never mind, answered my question while writing the last post…

  48. Black Dog says:

    hbomb – too bold a move for thsi crew plus MacT’s job is on the line so they’re going to throw him a lifeline, guaranteed

    three straight years out of the playoffs and the natives are getting restless

  49. Lowetide says:

    H Bomb: North of $350. Before the wine.

  50. hunter1909 says:

    Oilers often beat teams they’re supposed to lose to, so I’ll predict a 5 point road trip.

  51. godot10 says:

    Burke is an idiot.

    There is no reason a team shouldn’t be consistently good. The only time for a teardown is when a new GM is taking over a bad team. A good GM will be competitive all the time, because that is the only way to be ready and prepared when the championship opportunity arises.

  52. Jonathan Willis says:

    RE: Frantisek Kablerle

    Kaberle’s having a Brind’Amour style funk right now; 5.5% On-Ice EV SH% in front of him and .888 On-Ice EV SV% behind him. Carolina’s actually outshot the opposition 128 to 107 with Kaberle on the ice.

    Right now he looks like a third-pairing defenseman and 2nd PP unit guy with some ugly bounces, but I wouldn’t take him off waivers.

    However

    I’d be happy to trade Carolina Staios for Kaberle (not only does 24 make more money for longer, but he isn’t as good a PP option as Kaberle), and then trade away one of the pricier puck-moving guys for a cheaper shut-down type in the offseason.

    Basically, you’re upgrading right now, saving money and getting out of that ugly Staios contract, while upgrading Staios and downgrading Gilbert. It also blances the puck-movers; there would be one on every pairing.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909′s perfect trade deadline: Trade away Cole and Roloson, and any other overpriced contract, tank until the lottery region is reached(still possible), then fire MacT at the end of the season for that human sacrifice everyone craves.

    Six weeks of losing until the end of the season I think I can take, compared to anymore coaching by MacT and company.

  54. Traktor says:

    BD: Yup, Maple Leaf Mentality. I’m scared management might have it – I would list all the shortsighted moves this year but the game starts in less than 2 hours and I’m not sure I’ll finish in time.

  55. godot10 says:

    I think there is a possibility that the Oilers might makes a signficant trade or two.

    If the Oilers truly aren’t satisfied with Penner, then he certainly is bait in a deal for Bouwmeester or for a good UFA defenseman or UFA forward, particularly, if one knows one has Jagr in the bag for next year.

    If Guerin is coming, then both Penner and Cole could be going.

    The existence of Gilbert Brule, and MacT’s “vanilla” comments about Pouliot clearly means that Pouliot is potential bait.

  56. Traktor says:

    “There is no reason a team shouldn’t be consistently good.”

    Except in a 30 team league it’s theoretically impossible.

    The question is whether it’s better to hover around 7th-9th every year trying to be competitive or ascend/descend rapidly to the top/bottom.

    I don’t think the answer could be more obvious.

  57. Traktor says:

    “If the Oilers truly aren’t satisfied with Penner, then he certainly is bait in a deal for Bouwmeester or for a good UFA defenseman or UFA forward, particularly, if one knows one has Jagr in the bag for next year.

    If Guerin is coming, then both Penner and Cole could be going.”

    So we 2 two solid assets for 2 UFA’s? Definitely Maple Leaf Mentality.

    Fuck Jagr. He’s 37 and he’s not even a natural LW or C. We could always move him to the LW like Cole – that sure worked out well.

    If we’re seriously contemplating Jagr for next season it just proves how
    shortsighted this team is. We should make a pitch for Sundin and Ed Belfour while we’re at it.

  58. Doogie2K says:

    I think we have to set a benchmark for this road trip, and if the team falls below it, then they should really be deadline sellers, not buyers. I’m thinking 2-1-1 is the minimum, here; anything less and we’re all but guaranteed to lose ground. Given that one of those games is in San Jose, well, even with that team struggling right now, we’re short two of our top four D: you do the math.

    I also wondered on my own site whether it was really worth it to make deals in order to put the club into a position to get worked over by one of the better teams in the conference, and I really don’t think it is. I agree with Hbomb: either make minor moves/none at all, and try to squeak in with what you’ve got, or get rid of expensive/rentable contracts for pieces for the future and a shot at something slightly nicer at the draft table. The last thing we need is a Cobourn-for-Zhitnik move on our hands.

  59. Jonathan Willis says:

    The most pressing concern for the Oilers right now (seriously) is clearing cap space for 2010-11. David Shoalts tossed out a 46M$ salary cap the other day; let’s use that as a working number. Here’s who the Oilers have under contract:

    Penner – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Nilsson – XXXX – XXXX
    Moreau – XXXX – XXXX
    XXXX – XXXX – Stortini

    Souray – Gilbert
    Visnovsky – XXXX
    Smid – Chorney

    The cap hit for that lineup is 37.2-million, leaving 8.8 million to sign the following RFA’s:

    Gagner
    Cogliano
    Pouliot
    Brodziak
    Brule
    Grebeshkov
    Smid
    Peckham
    Deslauriers

    Additionally, this assumes that the following UFA’s have departed:

    Cole
    Pisani
    MacIntyre
    Strudwick
    Roloson

    Of that group, I’d say the Oilers will need a starting goaltender and at least one capble RW.

    I’m not convinced it’s doable unless they start dumping guys with 2010-11 contracts now. That’s Staios, Moreau, one of 77/44/71, and possible Nilsson/Penner.

  60. DeBakey says:

    I can't see it falling all the way o $46.5.
    How? Quite a bit of revenue is fixed.
    Game revenues in Toronto, New York, Chicago, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, San Jose may fall, but no where near 20%.

    Still, the $46.5 is do-able,
    barely,
    Dubnyk has to win the starting job.
    Staios & Moreau would be leading the AHL's Oklahoma City Roadrunners to victory.
    And so forth

  61. Phil says:

    //”There is no reason a team shouldn’t be consistently good.”

    Except in a 30 team league it’s theoretically impossible. //

    See: Detroit

  62. reijo29 says:

    JW – Just to confirm Staios is also signed for ’10-11?

  63. rider guy says:

    @HBomb,

    Ruth’s Chris has never struck me as the “Special Valentine’s Day Menu” restaurant to me. Assuming it’s the regular menu tonight, I’d count on dropping $225 before drinks.

    Appetizers – $15 each
    Dinner – $50 each your steak
    Side Dishes – 2 @ $10 each
    Dessert – 2 @ $15 – get the Banana Cream Pie and thank me later.
    Tip – $40

    Total should be around $225 plus alcohol.

  64. DBO says:

    The 2010/11 issue is a pressing one. That is why i advocate for moving Grebeshkov. I still believe Gilbert is a better all around player, and will be more consistent. Vish has been great and Souray has played up to his contract. The three of them are the building blocks on defense.

    i also think we need to move one of Gagner or Cogliano. If we assume Horcoff is here in some capacity in 2 years, and we agree that neither of those kids are 3rd line centres, then you move one to fill other needs. Grebsehkov and Gagner/Cogliano can net a you a hell of a return. not to mention that between and greb and one kid you are looking at $8 million in salary. going off of J. Willis projection for our lineup in a few years:

    Penner – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Nilsson – Colgiano – new
    Moreau – new – Pisani
    Brule – Brodziak – Stortini

    Souray – Gilbert
    Visnovsky – Peckham
    Smid – Chorney

    New goalies

    If the RFA/UFA’s we resign cost us approx $7.5 (Cogs – $3.5, Pis – $1.25, Brule – $1.25, Peckham – $1.0, Smid $1.5), then we have anywhere from $1.5 to $5 mill depending on the cap (i doubt it drops below $50 mill). The scary part is that unless you unload vishnovsky or Souray, you have to deal some of the kids just for cap space. The horcoff deal looks like a crippling contract. you sign him at the end of this year and you get him for $4 million based on production and financial situation in the league.

  65. Traktor says:

    “Except in a 30 team league it’s theoretically impossible. //

    See: Detroit”

    You missed my point, or I didn’t express it well enough.

    It’s impossible for all 30 teams to have success all the time.

    Automatically we know 14 teams will not make the playoffs. The point that Burke makes is that if you’re not a top 10 team than it’s better top be a bottom 10 team than a tweener team like our Edmonton Oilers.

    Making moves to ensure 8th place status is the mark of no direction.

  66. Lowetide says:

    Tip 20% or you’ll look cheap. Plus she’s ordering more than one drink or it’s not going to be the evening you’re hoping for.

    AND get wine.

    :-)

  67. Phil says:

    By the way LT, best non-Stan Weir GDT pic ever!

  68. HBomb says:

    rider guy and Lowetide: Thanks for the tips. I was kind of budgeting 300 bucks for the whole thing, so it appears I’m in the ballpark.

  69. HBomb says:

    And I tip 15% as a minimum. Triple the GST, then round it up so the bill is some nice and tidy amount. Anal-retentive engineer style.

    DBO: I cannot get behind this “Trade Gagner and keep Cogliano” thing people pitch all the time. Makes no sense to me. Cogliano’s good, but at age 19, Gagner’s tracking ahead of where Hemsky was a the same age. People seem to forget there’s a 26 month difference in age between these two.

    Hemsky’s obviously the untouchable on this roster. The next two guys on my list are Gagner and Gilbert.

  70. Lowetide says:

    HBomb: Agree completely on Gagner/Cogliano. It isn’t exactly Robin Yount/Pedro Garcia but age is a huge part of the equation.

  71. HBomb says:

    Wow. Jeff Carter with goal 35 this afternoon for Philadelphia.

    As a big fan of the guy, you’ve got to think that he’s an automatic for Team Canada next February, no?

    The Hockeycentral guys posted their Team Canada roster on Thursday night, and he was on it. How they managed to miss Shea Weber though….

  72. shepso says:

    @LT: Great post as usual. I’m pretty much convinced that although we may win some games, it’s really time to do a salary dump and not turn into the leafs. I hate the leafs. I hate their fans, I hate the hubris that has enveloped their organization. I don’t want my beloved Oil to turn into that, and becoming buyers after an average year to maybe get into the second round just feels like a waste. We’re having a developmental crisis of sorts to begin with. Why get rid of picks to stock up on has beens and 2nd tier vets? It seems counterproductive and not a guarantee of any sort of long term planning.

    @Hbomb: As a veteran of Edmonton’s culinary scene for 11+ years, I would recommend not Ruth’s Cris (though it is really good) and instead go for something a bit more unique and classy, like Madison’s Grill at the Union Bank Inn, or Hardware Grill. Same price scheme, possibly a little less, but with better food, better atmosphere… And women don’t always see “Steakhouse” as a gesture of romance. They see 4.5 to 5 star with national reputation as a better option. Trust me. I am not always right about hockey, but when it comes to food in Edmonton, I know the score.

  73. Bank Shot says:

    HBomb: You can probably do better then Ruth’s Chris for the same amount of dollars or less.

    Places like Normand’s, Wildflower Grill, or the Sage at the River Cree Casino are equally upscale with better menu options.

  74. Traktor says:

    Is Gagner even better than David Perron?

    Gagner is undersized, not the greatest skater, pass first mentality.

    He’s a great prospect but I don’t see how he’s any better than Cogliano.

    Gagner put up better numbers at 19 than Super Joe or Vinny. All it really tells us is that you can’t define a career in the first couple seasons.

  75. HBomb says:

    HBomb: Agree completely on Gagner/Cogliano. It isn’t exactly Robin Yount/Pedro Garcia but age is a huge part of the equation.

    Cogliano’s playing well, but people ride Gagner for not being super-fast for a small guy (they’re not all Martin St. Louis) and not putting up points at a torrid pace.

    Hockey IQ, he’s second to no one on this team among players not named Ales. I would not be surprised that, if he’s given Cole or a reasonable facsimile as one winger and either Nilsson or Cogliano as his other winger next season and they’re assigned to the “kill the soft” role from the outset, that the dice go his way and he takes a leap into point-per-game territory.

    He could be that good.

  76. Phil says:

    @ Traktor

    I see your point.

    I think the question here is, do you need to go through the 3 or 4 or 10 years of suck to get the top 3 draft pics, to in turn get the star power to turn your team around? Or can it be done the way the Oilers are trying to do it?

    I think that the SMART management teams can build a contending team without going through a long period of sucking. I would put SJ, Detroit, maybe Buffalo, maybe NJ in this category. I also think that the no brainer way of doing it is to suck for a while and get the draft picks – PIT, WASH, CHI, LA (TBay when they won the cup) – but this is at the expense of losing your fan base, and in turn, losing money.

    I see the Oiler management trying to do it the ‘smart’ way, but it isn’t working out for them, for a number of reasons, not the least being that it’s just hard to lure great players to EDM.

    ‘Nuff about all this serious stuff. Do the Oilers win today? We can thank the Flamers for poking the hornets nest a bit in LA – Kipper stole that game for them. I say that LA is chomping at the bit here; Oilers need to be ready to match the intensity early, or we’re in for another but whoopin’.

  77. godot10 says:

    //The horcoff deal looks like a crippling contract. you sign him at the end of this year and you get him for $4 million based on production and financial situation in the league.//

    No you don’t. Montreal has essentially nobody under contract for next year. Atlanta has no centers to speak of. The Islanders have oodles of cap room. The guys in Columbus know what Horcoff can do. And well, those Minnesota guys are losing Gaborik and have cap room. Sakic and Forsberg are probably gone from Colorado, and they have Ryan Smyth.

  78. Phil says:

    //So, it’s Min-Edm-Ana-Edm-CBJ and LA vaults back today with a reg win over the Oil.//

    If only we had two teams…

  79. Lowetide says:

    Dennis: Yasmine Bleeth. Or Caroline Holden if you watched. :-)

  80. Traktor says:

    I’m mixing up my Joe’s.

    That should actually be Jumbo Joe.

  81. godot10 says:

    And the Sedins are going to Toronto, so Vancouver would have been in the bidding for Horcoff.

  82. HBomb says:

    shepso: Ruth’s Chris was specifically hinted/requested. I’ve heard good things about Hardware Grill and am keeping it in mind for another night out.

  83. Dennis says:

    I have nothing to base this on except initial gut instinct but 46.5 mill for the cap by 2011 seems low to me as well.

    JW: I like your plan for diversifying our D corps and I’m not sure when we’re able to move 44 but he’s beating the odds now with his plus/minus numbers and his durability given his history and birth certificate, I’d look to move him as soon as we could.

    LT: who is that missus in the picture? Quite fetching:)

    I look at the playoff picture and you’ve got the top four and then I’ll pencil in the Stars – lots of home games left and they’re money in Dal – and also the Canucks because they’re healthy now and on paper is translating on ice.

    So, it’s Min-Edm-Ana-CBJ for two spots and LA vaults back today with a reg win over the Oil. The thing that should keep CBJ kicking around is there’s one thing they keep doing well – netminding and keeping the GA down – and that’s something they can depend on.

    I think the Oilers would’ve squeaked in if everyone had been healthy but there’s just too much going against us right now.

    I’ll keep cheering and watching but for all the reasons I’ve listed over and over, I don’t think we’ve got the horses to pull through to the playoffs.

    And I don’t know if the guys are out there to help us pull through and I don’t really know what my cut-off point is for who I’d give up to get said guys.

  84. Dennis says:

    LT: No, I didn’t watch that programe. I googled to see the person the character’s name was attached to and I think Baywatch used to run on Friday nights, right? Or at least it seems what’s what night it was on in my area. By that time I was experimenting with alcohol – I would go on to publish an award winning paper on said subject – and there wasn’t a lot of TV watching on the weekends.

    Good lord, though, you would not be able to turn her down.

  85. Doogie2K says:

    And I tip 15% as a minimum. Triple the GST, then round it up so the bill is some nice and tidy amount. Anal-retentive engineer style.

    You, too? I always try to get it to the nearest dollar, though sometimes I’m lazy and just use the % function on the Interac machine.

  86. PDO says:

    And I felt good about dropping $140 last night on Dinner….

  87. Ribs says:

    If we’re seriously contemplating Jagr for next season it just proves how
    shortsighted this team is. We should make a pitch for Sundin and Ed Belfour while we’re at it.

    Yea, but a Jagr-Sundin-hemsky line would be pretty sweet…

  88. hunter1909 says:

    The Oilers upcoming cap situation looks like a tsunami headed towards the SS Lowe.

    Whereas before they cried poverty, in future they will either be crying poor management(riight), or whatever else they get their journalistic shills(Sun, Journal) to print.

    Playoffs: With a healthy back 4, plus a dose of 2006 style upgrades I could have hoped for a repeat of that 2006 first round terrorism we all saw; however without Visnovsky we’re roadkill in round 1. Seriously, wouldn’t it just be better to tank the rest of the season and try to get one of those top 2 players, while there is still time?

  89. jon k says:

    Except that Chicago is at the cap and LA is at the floor… One is done rebuilding and one is gearing for next year. IMO LA defensive game will make them a contender very soon. Despite making a team designed their GA is very impressive this season.

  90. Doogie2K says:

    Chicago may be at the cap now, but they’ve got a rather hefty contract in Khabibulin coming off the books very soon; either they resign him and deal Huet or (far more likely) they let him walk/deal him at the deadline for The Missing Link.

  91. HBomb says:

    D2K: How the hell is Link Gaetz going to help the Chicago Blackhawks?

    RE: Tipping. I’m a generous tipper. Someone once told me “if you can’t afford the tip, you can’t afford the meal.” I used to bag groceries when I was sixteen, and I was lucky if one or two people a week tossed me a couple bucks. It wasn’t much money, but it was appreciated.

    Everyone’s gotta make a living, right?

  92. Chris says:

    Hbomb in the future if you can sell her on Italian, Il Portico and Sorintinos downtown are good options. They’re on the expensive side but not attrociously so. Plus they have a classy atmosphere and good food.

  93. PDO says:

    Start at 15%. Moves from there… has to be fantastically bad to move down. Good and it can go to 20% easily.

  94. godot10 says:

    //If we’re seriously contemplating Jagr for next season it just proves how
    shortsighted this team is. We should make a pitch for Sundin and Ed Belfour while we’re at it.//

    1-year contracts for 35-years and older forwards who are still productive are an excellent way to spend to the cap while managing the cap long term, especially when the cap is headed down.

    The cap is not going down much next year, but probably a lot the year after that. So there is probably no room to sign Hossa long term, but there is room to sign jagr for 1 year.

  95. Doogie2K says:

    How the hell is Link Gaetz going to help the Chicago Blackhawks?

    He was on pace to shatter Dave Schultz’s penalty-minute record back in ’93. Surely that’s worth something.

  96. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Doogie2K said…
    Chicago may be at the cap now, but they’ve got a rather hefty contract in Khabibulin coming off the books very soon; either they resign him and deal Huet or (far more likely) they let him walk/deal him at the deadline for The Missing Link.

    Chicago also has Havlat’s $6M coming off the books at the end of the season.

    They’re not done yet.

  97. reijo29 says:

    I think we need to make some serious moves in the next couple weeks as well as the off season all with the thought that we compete for the Division Title next year.
    Think we need to unload the Vets w/ crippling salaries NOW or 5 minutes ago (Moreau, Staios & maybe Pisani). Trade our 2 UFAs (Cole & Rollie). See if we can deal (Penner or Horcoff) for good value, I think one of them has to go because of future salary implications. Dump Schremp & maybe Pouliot) because they aren't ever going to be important players on this team.
    In the off-season I think we need to deal 1 of the 4 Top D-Men probably Souray or Visnovsky (due to age/salary). If we by chance can sign Jay Bouwmeester (give him same deal as Zetterberg 10yr./72 million) we would then need to trade another 1 of the 4.
    I think a deal for Pascal Leclaire (if healthy) or a similar young goalie could make sense. (Cogs & Grebs as bait)

    If we did all of the above I would see the team as legitimate contenders for the division title not only next year but also in future years as we would have addressed many of our cap issues.

  98. Doogie2K says:

    Chicago also has Havlat’s $6M coming off the books at the end of the season.

    I’d forgotten about him, but I’d also argue that it seems a lot more likely they’ll resign Havlat than Khabibulin.

  99. HBomb says:

    Chris: Best Italian in the city is at Tasty Tomato on 142nd.

    Sorrentino’s is good (my dad actually frequented the original Sorrento’s restaurant and lounge in Castledowns back in the 80′s), and I’ve heard good things about Il Porticio and Sicilian Pasta Kitchen.

    Best Greek food in town, meanwhile, is NOT Kotouki like everyone thinks. Syrtaki, out on 111 Ave where it turns into Mayfield Road, right at 163 street.

  100. Gord says:

    If we need a temporary defenseman right now (which I think we do), Havelid is the best option.

    The $$$ is right; he is a UFA at the end of the season; plus we will hopefully have Vish & Grebs back next season to complete our top four…

    That would leave offense from the point coming from Gilbert & Souray for the rest of the season but I suspect they could rise to the occasion.

  101. reijo29 says:

    I have worked and still work in the service industry and when it comes to tipping I have a pretty solid idea of protocol.
    less then 15% – Service has to be atrocious
    15% – Everything was okay nothing spectacular.
    18% – Very happy w/ meal & service
    20% – Exceptional
    25%+ – Trying to get in servers pants cause your not getting into your dates pants.

    Chris – IL Portico is closed now. Capital Health paid them a ton of dough for the property, they closed months ago with no notice.

    Try out Pazzo Pazzo for great Italian food in the downtown core.

  102. godot10 says:

    Chicago could be screwed

    This summer they have Havlat, Versteeg, and Barker to sign.

    The summer after that, they have Toews, Kane, and Keith.

    I don’t think losing khabibulin’s contract is enough to pay for all that.

    Toews and Keith are $6 million per year guys.

  103. shepso says:

    Any of those Chicago RFA and UFA types would be welcome additions. I say we take a run at somebody in the summer.

    Back to the food related stuff, Hbomb, enjoy Ruth’s. It really is a world class dining experience. But trust me, Hardware is the best place in town, with Madison’s being a close second. As far as the Italian goes, Piccolino’s on 142nd street blows Sorrentino’s and most other Italian places in town out of the water. Reijo, your tip scheme is pretty much spot on…

  104. reijo29 says:

    I have had many bad dates and made many attempts at buying a servers love through tipping.

    Go Oil. This is a very big game methinks.

  105. Schitzo says:

    Goddamn, am I doing something wrong or is this one not in HD again?

  106. shepso says:

    Game On: Wow, look at Huggy Bear, he was just all over the ice, breaking up a play in the d-zone and then forechecking hard… I have really liked his game lately. He’s starting to play a lot more like an actual hockey player, not just a light-heavyweight hired goon

  107. shepso says:

    FATSO!!!!!!!! GOALLLLLLLL!!!!!

  108. HBomb says:

    He is a God, but you can call him Ales.

    shepso: Piccolino is pretty good. But Tasty Tomato is better. Just my opinion though.

  109. oilerdago says:

    Pennnnerrrrr!!!

  110. oilerdago says:

    The 4th line is lucky to have survived that shift. MacT’s got to be a lot smarter about his defensive zone face off combo’s. That was a near disaster.

  111. HBomb says:

    Ah, Denis Gauthier. A guy that would make my All-douchebag team every single year. Forgot he was back in the league.

    And Alexander Frolov is easily one of the most underrated players in the league. Guy is flat out good.

  112. shepso says:

    Hbomb, try ‘lino’s Cannelloni first, then reevaluate. Tasty Tomato is a fantastic place though, I certainly give you credit where it is due.

    In the meantime, 43-49 is already giving me nightmares. Poor Strudsie. It’s not his fault…He tries so hard every game…

  113. HBomb says:

    Ok, I have counted at least three flat out missed penalty calls so far – one on the Oilers and two on the Kings.

    Guess they’re going to let ‘em play today….

  114. HBomb says:

    shepso: Lot’s of people don’t know about Tasty Tomato. Next time you go there, follow these instructions:

    - Tasty Tomato salad
    - Veal Scallopini
    - Tiramisu

    They’ve got a great menu, but I rarely get adventurous, because I love that particular combination so much.

  115. oilerdago says:

    shepso: the 43/49 nightmare is when they’re out with the 4th line for defensive zone face off. LA’s going to try and throw their top line out against that all day and sooner or later, it’s going to bite us.

  116. Dennis says:

    I was on the phone kicking ass with the stupes at bell TV but how did both our third pairing D and fourth line wind up out against the Kings best line??

    In any case, they notched at least three scoring opps.

  117. Chris says:

    They closed Il Portico? Ouch didn’t know that, I hadn’t been there in a little while but it was a great place. I loved the sword fish.

    I love Syrtaki its close to my office so I eat lunch there or at the Shark Club all the time. Syrtaki makes the best calamari I’ve ever had.

  118. danny says:

    I have had many bad dates and made many attempts at buying a servers love through tipping.

    Lol. Its pathetic because we have all done this before.

    4 years ago I was at a christmas party at a swank restaurant. I was obsessing over the bartender whie sitting at my table, so i volunteered to buy drinks every chance I got that night. I played it cool as hell, left stupid obvious tips every trip. Well I went home along that night.

    Well, today I am engaged to this girl. She doesn’t remember even seeing me that night, or ever really.

    Tipping large, as much as we hope, means squat to servers… well means squat to anyone worth marrying.

    For valentines day, my fiance wanted to go see Friday the 13th, eat nachos and take a walk around Signal Hill with a couple Tim Hortons.

    We left a .50 cent tip at Tims.

  119. shepso says:

    Hbomb…yup. Done that very thing before. It does rule. A close friend used to live 4 or 5 doors down from there…we used to get stoned and wander in there to piss off the rich folks and I would order precisely that.

    One of these days, I think I am going to hijack my own hockey blog and post a list of my top 25 restaurants in Edmonton, breaking it down by region of cuisine and price…okay, maybe a top 50…

  120. HBomb says:

    Syrtaki makes the best calamari I’ve ever had.

    I second this assessment. Although, if you want a different slant on breaded calamari, go to The King & I restaurant on 107th and Whyte and have that as one of the appetizers (best Thai food in the city, by the way).

  121. Lowetide says:

    Strudwick had the puck in his own slot and just for fun pushed it out there a few feet. It’s like he’s doing some weird study about player’s reaction time when opportunity arises.

  122. Jonathan Willis says:

    Nice goal – now what’s Stoll’s problem?

  123. oilerdago says:

    Horc is the man and up yours Kings.

  124. HBomb says:

    People (i.e. some NHL players) seem to think that Edmonton is some sort of cultural outpost, but this city has some downright outstanding dining.

    Another one for everyone, and this is a great date restaurant: The Creperie.

    Anyways, Horcoff and die! Power play goal from 10, immediately followed by a fight between….Horcoff and Stoll?

    Nice finish by #10. Glad to see Mirtle gave the guy love as a potential 13th “checking” forward for Team Canada next February.

  125. reijo29 says:

    Wow. I really like the Oilers today. Except 3rd D Pair (Scary Stuff). Nice goal. Looks like the 1st line is back and clicking.

    Hemmer vs. Doughty would be an interesting fight.

  126. HBomb says:

    To summarize, HBomb's "big five" restaurants:

    Syrtaki for Greek
    King & I for Thai
    The Creperie for "French"
    Tasty Tomato for Italian

    And, where I went last weekend, still my absolute favorite:

    Japanese Village, the teppanyaki steak house section.

  127. Jonathan Willis says:

    Steve Staios: offensive acumen you can’t teach.

  128. HBomb says:

    Sam Gagner vs. Jack Johnson.

    What the fuck?

  129. Jonathan Willis says:

    Nice presence, Smid! He doesn’t have much of a shot, but he may have some offensive upside.

    Also, Gagner can’t be allowed to fight Jack Johnson.

  130. oilerdago says:

    Gagner should a buried that and he’s out of his league on that fight.

    But like the spunk a lot.

  131. Lowetide says:

    Gagner the Killer. Love it.

  132. HBomb says:

    Lowetide: has Doug Gilmour ever come up as a Sam Gagner comp?

    Just curious, since you mentioned the nickname “Killer”.

  133. reijo29 says:

    I can’t believe Gags fought J.Johnson. Wow. He did alright too. That’s better then if Hemmer/Doughty had fought.
    Again I must say I really like what the Oil are doing today. What a difference a week makes I think I threw my remote through the TV at this time last week.

  134. grease trap says:

    Jack “Leave my visored helmet on” Johnson.

    What a pussy.

  135. danny says:

    Whats the ref doing letting johnson ragdoll Gagner like that for a good 6 or 7 seconds after the whistle?

    Whats Gags supposed to do other than lose his shit?

  136. Chris says:

    Gagner fighting? I’m not sure whether I should laugh or wonder what the hell our goons are doing that we have the hobbit fighting.

  137. Jonathan Willis says:

    The bench sure seemed pump about Stortini’s fight.

    Gotta respect his courage.

  138. HBomb says:

    Man, we could have used SMacIntyre in today, methinks. But Stortini hung in there. Referees giving the coaches shit right now.

    You know, this Oilers vs. Kings feistiness is giving me flash-backs At this point, I’d advocate Souray throwing down with Jack Johnson later this game.

    And Lowetide, I knew the Gilmour/Gagner thing had come up before. Alcohol is killing my memory.

  139. reijo29 says:

    What a fun hockey game so far. Only thing that would make it better is if Souray would ragdoll/TKO someone.

  140. HBomb says:

    Wow, the refs let a bunch of tripping calls go early, then they call THAT on Cogliano?

  141. Chris says:

    Pretty bogus call but its nice to see the Oilers playing like they actually give a damn today.

  142. Bank Shot says:

    Haha atta boy Gagner!

    Looks like he got tagged in the nose pretty good.

    Hopefully getting cut up a bit doesn’t faze him.

  143. RiversQ says:

    Tremendous entertainment value in that period. 83 is rounding back into form.

  144. HBomb says:

    I’m going to say it again, because it needs to be re-stated.

    For all the issues with this team, the top line combo of Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky is most certainly not one of them. Great period from those three.

  145. chartleys says:

    Aside from Detroit, the perennial competitive teams have one thing in common:

    Unreal goaltender drafting and development.

    The anaheims, buffalos, san jose have all processed or drafted an obscene amount of talent in this area.

    If it was up to me I would be throwing a ton of money at whomever runs this aspect of buffalo and it’ll pay divedends in the future.

  146. quain says:

    If this is what this team looks like when Craig MacTavish hasn’t lost the room I want him to unlose the room every game.

  147. B.C.B. says:

    Everyone, the best place to eat in Edmonton is Madison Grill (may not be the biggest plate, but it is worth it).

    I am glad to see Gagner fight, I like the feisty spirit, but one a year will do me. Plus Gagner needs to stop taking penalties: he the highest non-physical PIM/60 on the Oilers (at 2.66) and has some of the most Lazy Penalties on the Team (15 LP and 0.31 LP/GP) on the team. If you want to see more, I have the updated numbers on my blog now (sorry shameless plug).

  148. chartleys says:

    As far as valentine’s eateries are concerned:

    Something to be said about La Ronde.

  149. chartleys says:

    I would love to drink a beer with Penner and hear what he has to say about Gene.

  150. rickibear says:

    LT, was not Grebs carrying the mail this year? That’s what I saw, a valuable player, strong by all statistical measures, to boot.

    Dstaples:
    The quotes I like out of the discussion. MacT says he is dominating and stil has another level.

    That is not a guy you get rid of. You sign him to 3-4M long term and move the larger salaries 5.4M and 5.6M down the road for good assets.

  151. Bank Shot says:

    The Springfield 4 and Brodziak have been getting way too many shifts against talent this game.

  152. Jonathan Willis says:

    The Kings broadcast team goes on and on about how the Oilers had a tired set of players out…

    and not once did they mention it was the Oilers’ 4th line going up against the Kings’ heavies.

  153. HBomb says:

    Ok, this officiating sucks. The Peckham call was garbage, Kopitar got away with worse later that shift, and now a marginal call on Staios?

    Is Marc Joanette working today?

  154. Jonathan Willis says:

    Horcoff and Stoll really have something going this game.

  155. danny says:

    8.0 on the Brown flop. deductions for a slight delay, needs to have tighter sync with opponents stick.

  156. Bruce says:

    Good afternoon.

    That’s a weak call there on Staios … wait a minute, there’s a replay, let me rephrase that, that’s a Bull Shit call.

  157. RiversQ says:

    Grebs has been pretty good. However I would hesitate to pay big money for a season where he played with 71. Visnovsky’s numbers are off the charts good and he makes his partners look good without question.

    (See Staples, I can wave my hands too.).

  158. HBomb says:

    Well, 5-on-3 after two bullshit penalties, you KNEW that goal was coming.

    If not for the fact we were already in penalty trouble, I would have been in favor of Roloson going Nash/Cleary style on Handzus there.

  159. RiversQ says:

    Peckham looks a little like 05-06 Greene – just a holding/hooking penalty waiting to happen.

  160. Jonathan Willis says:

    I’d hesitate to fork over big money to Grebeshkov with the cap concerns.

    Maybe a three year deal in the 3M range? Honestly, if he’s not significantly cheaper than Gilbert, I say trade him.

  161. Bruce says:

    Killer play by Struwdick there started almost all of that. Right after the icing, Struds had a chance to get the puck out and overskated the puck. That was with 16:22 on the clock. The next time we touched the puck was at 15:15.

    And we’ve barely touched it since.

  162. HBomb says:

    On Grebeshkov: offer him Staios’s money and ditch 24. If he wants more, trade him, but continue to ditch Staios.

    RiversQ: in fairness to Pechkam, the penalty he did take was a BS call.

  163. RiversQ says:

    Oh and I’d defintely keep 13 and 89. For the most part All of Gagner’ underlying numbers are better than Cogliano’s and as mentioned, he’s much younger.

  164. Jonathan Willis says:

    Peckham looks a little like 05-06 Greene – just a holding/hooking penalty waiting to happen.

    I suppose the question is whether that’s unique to Peckham or just a product of being Jason Strudwick’s defense partner.

  165. RiversQ says:

    Hbomb: No way. He earned that one and he easily could have picked up another on the delay.

  166. HBomb says:

    Hbomb: No way. He earned that one and he easily could have picked up another on the delay.

    He hardly touched Kopitar. Soft, SOFT call.

  167. Dennis says:

    He’s not unlike a lot of guys with the same DOB but right now Peckham isn’t an NHL dman.

  168. rickibear says:

    I’d hesitate to fork over big money to Grebeshkov with the cap concerns.

    Funny Klowe tought the same thing about Hedja and Glencross.

  169. Jonathan Willis says:

    Dennis: So is that an indictment of Peckham, or Springfield? I don’t think there’s an argument to be made that anyone should be leaping Peckham on the depth chart right now.

  170. Doogie2K says:

    Hejda and Glencross would likely have come cheaper than Grebeshkov.

  171. Jonathan Willis says:

    RB: Yeah, but Kevin Lowe hesitated to fork over small money to Jan Hejda, not big money.

  172. Bruce says:

    Peckham looks a little like 05-06 Greene – just a holding/hooking penalty waiting to happen.

    This is why I wasn’t keen on trading Greene — we spent three years training the guy and living with his growing pains, and just when he was getting competent we up and move him. Inevitably, in comes another guy with nothing but rough edges and o joy, we get to live through those growing pains all over again.

    I guess it was ever thus.

  173. Jonathan Willis says:

    I think the question on signing Grebeshkov comes down to which 3 of 37/44/71/77 you want to keep.

    If not for the NMC, I’d say 44 ought to be the guy sent away, but then again I’m just naturally suspicious of players having career years after the age of 30.

    I think 71′s the best of the bunch, so he doesn’t move, which leaves 37/77. They’re awfully close, so keep the cheaper of the two, yes? Or am I understating the gap between the two of them?

  174. Dennis says:

    JW: it could mean that the guys in SF aren’t doing their job, Peckham has the yips OR he just really isn’t all that special for his age.

    Bruce: maybe the argument you should be making is we should’ve held onto 2 instead of 5.

  175. Bank Shot says:

    Hejda and Glencross would likely have come cheaper than Grebeshkov.

    I’d rather have all three of those guys then Visnovsky by himself.

  176. B.C.B. says:

    Why does every comment section have to come back to Glenncross and Hejda. Yes, they where mistakes, but would his team be leading the division if we had them? No in my opinion.

    There are other mistakes we could be commenting on, or maybe we should focus on this season or this game?

  177. Lowetide says:

    This reminds me of the Expos when they used to bleed games because Doug Flynn was in the lineup. Hey, I like Theo Peckham a ton but this isn’t the place.

  178. HBomb says:

    Christ, if the first line isn’t out there, the Oilers are hemmed in their own end. And they’re blowing easy attempts to clear the little black disc. This is ridiculous.

  179. Bruce says:

    Oh my … the puck is going to be in our end for the rest of the season.

  180. HBomb says:

    I’d rather have all three of those guys then Visnovsky by himself.

    I’d simply rather have Hejda and Glencross than Staios and Moreau.

  181. Lowetide says:

    I’d make that Lubo trade 10 times out of 10 and throw in a nice pick if the Kings raised an eyebrow.

    Come the hell on, people.

  182. Bank Shot says:

    I don’t understand why MacT went straight back to the 4th line well after their 2.5 minute shift cost the Oilers all their penalty trouble and for half the team to lose their legs.

    You should have rolled the three decent lines until their legs were back.

  183. Bruce says:

    Smid comes out of the box and clears the zone. See, that experience on LW is paying off.

  184. HBomb says:

    Ok, LA forwards have set at least four or five textbook “moving picks” today, and not one has been called an interference penalty.

    It’s like watching a 1999 game against the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars….

  185. danny says:

    Yes!!

    Kings offsides.

  186. godot10 says:

    //I think the question on signing Grebeshkov comes down to which 3 of 37/44/71/77 you want to keep.//

    Ken Holland paying 4 defensemen in Detroit? Do you want to contend for a Cup or not?

  187. Jonathan Willis says:

    I’d make that Lubo trade 10 times out of 10 and throw in a nice pick if the Kings raised an eyebrow.

    Seconded. I love how certain segments of the local media and fanbase have said that since puck-moving defenseman are a strength on this roster, and that tough checking defensemen and experience at centre are weaknesses, trading Stoll and Greene for Visnovsky was a mistake. Give your head a shake.

    What does Stoll bring that Marty Reasoner wouldn’t have, exactly? Big shot on the point – because if that’s it, we’re covered, thank you kindly. What does Greene bring that, say, Kurt Sauer wouldn’t have?

    Quantity for quality trades are hard to pull off – the error lies, not in making the trade, but rather in not addressing the rather obvious holes with some of the available options.

  188. Icecastles says:

    HBomb said: I’d simply rather have Hejda and Glencross than Staios and Moreau.

    I’d rather have Jagr, Lecavelier, Spezza, Hossa and Boumeister than Peckham and Schremp. I’m just sayin’….

  189. Jonathan Willis says:

    Godot 10: Sure, Holland’s paying 4 defensemen. Unfortunately, with Staios and Grebeshkov, the Oilers would be paying five.

    The other thing is that the Red Wings are paying their forwards less than anyone else in the league – the Oilers aren’t going to get those contracts. What I’d like to see is 3 of the big 4 stick around, and the Oilers add some underrated depth defender from the Hejda/Sauer tree, dump Staios, and move the other defenseman out to add some punch at forward.

  190. Asiaoil says:

    Yeah Peckham is clearly not an NHL dman at this point – or even next year probably. He’s a young Staios and look how long he took to be a decent 3nd pair guy. His penalty was was totally deserved and was just part of a series of screw-ups by the usual cast – Strudwick’s bad icing with a tired 4th line out, Peckham’s penelty, Staios penalty the 2nd time he crossed checked a guy within 10 seconds.

  191. hunter1909 says:

    The only good thing about the Oilers this season, Hemsky aside, is the 4 puck moving defencemen they miraculously ended up with.

    Trading any of them away, in order to save money just to keep bums like Moreau around is pure insanity.

    And you have to wonder when this Hejda uber-love is ever going to subside. Last time I looked Oilers had a pretty good defence without him. And Hejda himself isn’t exactly an all star anyway. So wtf?

  192. HBomb says:

    Icecastles: Two guys, better players, we could have had for 1.5 million less cap hit.

    Unlike your argument, the Oilers COULD have had Glencross and Hejda if not for the fact they’ve overrated the contributions of Moreau and Staios.

  193. danny says:

    Anyone watching FSNs feed?

    Gene Principes counterpart, yowsa.

    LAs organ player would probably rather Gene though.

  194. Jonathan Willis says:

    Danny: Doesn’t she do a bunch of official NHL commercials too?

  195. HBomb says:

    Hunter: Give Lowe credit where credit is due, and stop being a jackass. He did very well assembling this year’s top four.

    As for Hejda, he’s putting up a team-leading plus in Columbus playing the toughs while drawing only 2 million a season. The fact the Oilers let him walk is something you SHOULD be bitching about. Lord knows you complain about everything else.

  196. Icecastles says:

    I was being sarcastic, HBomb. Obviously there is no real comparison. I’m just saying that they make the trades and signings with certain expectations and constraints on them, and at the time they were made, there weren’t very many that I thought were poorly thought out.

    Not keeping Glenncross though, was admittedly a poor move, as they were clearly overconfident about their chances at a big summer signing like Hossa or Jagr. That said, I don’t think it’s much of a secret that Glencross wanted to play for the team he grew up cheering for, and that’s Calgary.

  197. Jonathan Willis says:

    Hunter: Hejda’s +12, playing against the toughest opposition. The next best +/- on Columbus is Marc Methot (3rd pairing minutes) and his +7.

    Plus he does it for 2M a season, and when he jumped ship it was on a 1yr/1M deal. HBomb’s bitter about it.

  198. Bruce says:

    I’d make that Lubo trade 10 times out of 10 and throw in a nice pick if the Kings raised an eyebrow.

    LT: I wasn’t commenting on the return for Greene, which was fine. That was a good trade, although hardly a steal for the Oilers. I was just commenting more generally on the absence of Greene. All last year people were saying we got to get rid of Smid or Greene and make room for Peckham and I was saying they’re both rounding into dependable players after a couple years of growing pains and why would we want to start from scratch again.

    Bruce: maybe the argument you should be making is we should’ve held onto 2 instead of 5.

    See, Dennis is still saying it, he’s made this comment while I was writing my own immediately above. I was happy with both of them, and would have been happy to keep both. I thought they were a better third pairing than anything we’ve seen this year, and both getting better.

    Yes of course we got Lubo in return who’s eaten up all of Greene’s ice time and then some, but now that he’s gone we can actually see the situation I was leery of: one of 2 and 5 gone, 49 in. And it’s not all that pretty, at least not yet.

    Finally, don’t get me wrong, I like Theo Peckham. But he is 1-3 years away from being an effective NHL defenceman.

  199. godot10 says:

    //Sure, Holland’s paying 4 defensemen. Unfortunately, with Staios and Grebeshkov, the Oilers would be paying five.//

    If Blake re-signs next year, San Jose will be paying 5, plus Lukowich.

    The cap isn’t an issue next year for Grebeshkov. The year after that the Oilers can buy out Staios’s and Moreau’s contracts if need be. But Staios is a competent NHL defenseman earning $2.2 in that last year…he should be tradeable .

Newer Comments »

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca