Predators at Oilers, G49/08-09
Sunday games for the Edmonton Oilers can sometimes be a car crash, a movie so unusual you wonder if you should be watching, listening to Astral Weeks at 4am, late night driving so tired you know pulling over is the better plan.
And yet this is a game they should win going away. Nashville has their problems and is sinking in the west, the Oilers have more actual NHL players than they’ve had at any time since Cinderella’s fairy Godmother waved her wand and turned Fernando Pisani into Guy Lafleur.
Lately, whenever I’ve stated something negative in a GDT the Oilers win and when I’m positive it’s epic fail time. Well, I’m stubborn. I don’t feel negative today. I feel like my team is going to finish in the top 6 in this western conference, that Steve Tambellini is going to make some trades to improve the left wing, improve the experience level at center, improve the depth on the blue and if need be grab some goalie insurance (Deslauriers has to play between now and the deadline and if it’s a circus they have to make a move).
No sir. I believe these Edmonton Oilers will win today. clap clap. And if Blue Velvet doesn’t do it, we’re going Eraserhead.
That photo just reminds me of “Still No Names” quantum leap article. I hope I got the blog right, sorry if I didn’t.
The Oilers will show up early this morning, and if we are lucky SMac will fight Belak, Smid will play, and the 2nd line will score. And if we are not lucky Hemsky will carry the Oilers on his back.
The picture and the post bring one thing to mind:
“Oh boy.”
As mentioned previously;), Oilers are money when there are storms afoot in NL and today we’re in the middle of a doozy.
So, yes, everything’s lined up:D but has the team matured to the point where they can hit the open 15-foot jumper?
I’m certainly not convinced we can find twine.
Roli bounced back last game out – though he only had to make three or four really big saves – but he’s at the age where his game could really fall and not get up and our current Medic-Alert bracelet is a kid who’s AHL numbers impress no one outside of the Rexall Ivory Tower.
18′s having such a lucky year that it could turn to the point of him being -15 from here on our and I wouldn’t bat an eyelash.
Things like that concern me but there are a lot of positives going forward. Things like how we’re good enough at EV that the playoffs are a decent possibility and how 83 looks like a surefire PPG and is also finding different ways to score some goals. The D corps is absolutely top notch and big ups to the guy who indentifed Gilbert long ago and to Lowe for the MAB/Grebs move and big prayers to the Almighthy Lord for allowing Souray a second lease on life;)
As for moves to improve the club, I’d look for Lowebellini to shed salary and vets all the while looking to win on playoff series in ’09 and then perhaps two in 2010.
Here’s my plan:
- move all of 12-18-24 for some combination of picks and a dman to replace 24. The guy’s got to be affordable and better than 24. You probably get him for 12 in an old hitting-for-pitching move and then 24 and 18 go out the door just to get rid of cap space.
- bring in 19 as your secondary centre.
Then we roll like this:
27-10-83: PVP
13-89-26: The Mr. Buttrworths
78-19-34: secondary tough min
?-51-46:
71-77
37-44
5-New Guy
We get rid of some money and we’re primed for the raises for 13-89 and/or ready to pick up a scorer to play with 89 come 2010. Or we can look to bring back 26 for that matter.
Also, I’d consider bringing in one or both of Emery and Avery to finish this season.
And, no, I’m not joking.
Experts say LT was wearing his jammies when he typed up this Game Day
- Spiderman or Simpsons?
I seriously hope the team shows up today more like Frank on an amyl binge than Jeffrey in the closet… And takes out their bad nature on Tootoo. It could be awkward in the dressing room though. clap clap.
Superman. Superman trumps all and is the coolest. Ever. Superman.
Someone must’ve been laid last night
Working through this one. If it gets out of hand, please at least provide me with hilarity.
@ Dennis
Avery? Really? Do you feel that the Oilers dressing room does not have enough division or controversy? Have you watched Dallas since they rid themselves of that cancer?
Maybe there’s a coach in the league who can handle Avery, but I doubt he is in the Oilers system anywhere.
Aww we will all see who wins this one by 10 mins into the opening period.
MacT has placed his career(and whether we like it or not the hopes of the fans) on the shoulders of mister 2006.
Which of the rest of the team shows up? Well guys, dream on if you have to, but that’s about as much of a coin toss as anything else I can think of this fine Sunday.
For example, the Oilers probably come out as flat as a pancake, having “proved” they could rebound after the 10-2 funster.
Or, they come out ‘fired up’, which in the case of this team is kind of pathetic – expecially as it usually means Moreau taking a first period idiot penalty.
Of course, anyone can always turn the game off once Dwayne-o opens his legs and hands the Preds a free 2 points.
Lowetide said:
Superman. Superman trumps all and is the coolest. Ever. Superman.
Personally, I think Spiderman has him hands down. Besides, who would win in a fight – Peter Parker or Clark Kent? I believe we all know the answer…
Top 6 finish Lowetide?
You poor SOB.
That’s just a guaranteed recipe for heartache. Be like me Lowetide, and accept the OIlers are not good enough to end up higher than 7th. I guarantee you will feel a lot better over the next 2 months.
It’s hoping that the Oilers, led by those lame front office types, will ever be joining the Red Wings/elite of the NHL that drives the fans to distraction.
With Lowe and especially MacT running things, this will never be more than a playoff bubble team, desperate to restage game 1 of the SCF.
I feel better now.
I hope they don’t bench Ladislav Smid today, it’s his birthday. That, and he’s better than Strudwick.
February 1st is also the birthday of Dennis’ personal favorite, former Oiler goalie Tommy Salo. It’s the first anniversary of the (now) infamous acquisition of one Curtis Glencross, and the 24th anniversary of the original, at-the-time-quiet, acquisition of one Craig MacTavish, a man needing a fresh start after a horrible mistake, given one by Harry Sinden and Craig MacTavish (Gretzky-Messier-MacTavish, nice center depth, eh?).
And oh yeah, today’s also the 27th anniversary of the birth of one of the biggest, most stubborn-but-loyal Oiler fans alive. Counting backwards, I’m certain I was conceived in a drunken romp during the spring 1981 celebrations after the Oilers knocked off the Canadiens, since those apparently dragged out for weeks.
All I’d like today? An Oilers win. The icing on the cake would be a Tootoo beat-down by MacIntyre. Please guys, I want to listen to “Private Eyes” around 2:30pm this afternoon. Don’t lose and make me post whatever the “loss anthem” ends up being decided as (I’m thinking we need to look at the disco era and find the worst of the worst).
Oh – Cardinals by 3 this afternoon, Fitzgerald wins MVP. I like Pittsburgh (especially Polamalu), but damn, the idea of my Niners no longer sharing the record for Super Bowl titles, I can’t get behind it one bit. So go Arizona!
Jekyll and Hyde this team certainly is. At this point i don’t know if you can reasonably predict how the oil will play period to period. And to sound like a broken record, inconsistency in my opinion can be put at the feet of the coach. motivation and geting the most out of your players is coach’s primary job. that being said i’ve given up hope that MacT and staff will be moved aside for someone else, so here’s hoping tambellini and KLowe will fnally make a move to shake up the room and solidify the roster. we are a better team today then we were in 06 before the deals, so we have a shorter distance to go in order to be a real threat. The issue then becomes, with a salary cap world, what kind of moves can be made? i think mirtle might have done it a few weeks ago, but what UFA’s may be avaiable at the deadline? And what teams will actually look to move NHLer’s for prospects and picks? To echo LT, we need a veteran 3rd line centre, veteran stay at home dman, and if possible a LW upgrade for our top 6.
Pre superbowl hangover aside, here are the teams I can see moving players, as well as who is available based on need and contract.
Atl: Reasoner (3rd times a charm)
- Mathieu Schneider
LAK: Erik Ersberg (goalie who is solid)
- Denis Gauthier (although I’m not sure if I’d want him, but he’d bring an edge we lack)
NAS: Steve Sullivan
- Radek Bonk (can win a faceoff)
- Greg Devries (might as well have a reunion)
NYI: Bill Guerin (not sure if he can play LW and big price tag)
-Doug Weight (not exactly your best two way player, but we know he’s clutch and he still likes Edmonton)
OTT: Not sure if they wil make moves but..
- Vermette (can play 3rd centre role and can win a faceoff, and ok deal next year)
- Gerber (cheap on re-entry, and a
UFA next year)
- Chris Neil (might not fit a need, but he adds some aggressive play and sandpaper)
PHX: Reinprecht
- Derek morris (UFA, but not what we need)
STL: No one really unless we want Legace to be insurance for Rollie.
- tkachuk (but I hate him, even though he would be a good fit on the left side and he can take faceoffs on our second line)
TOR: lol. Moving on.
Based on our depth (offensive dmen), small offensive players and a slew of prospects my perfect world deal happens with Ottawa.
Vermette, Volchenkov and Neil
for
Nilsson (signed cheap), Grebeshkov (they desperately want an offensive dman), Pouliot and a 2nd round pick/prospects (chorney and Schremp?)
On the effects of a Negative GDT, I have one observation: it brings out the best in that contrarion Hunter. When you start with a hopeful – if not exactly Gushing with Optimism – post, like today, Hunter unburdens himself of Life’s Miseries (starting with Oiler mgmt, which I suppose is as good a choice as any).
But he feels better now ~ [clap-clap]
And I know the rest of you Contrarians will enjoy me eating that spelling mishap,
Nashville is struggling big time to score right now, but they did get Sullivan back since the last time we played them.
We need to jump on them early and not give up a cheap goal. Friday’s Roli needs to show up (not Tuesday’s) because the Preds will try and lock it down if they can get up early.
And I’d rather see 19 come back and handle the tough’s because it will improve our shot blocking and PK and those would help us in the post-season. Radek Bonk has not been good (from what I’ve seen) on the PK.
If we’re looking for help up front, Nik Antropov is a guy I’d look at. Say Nilsson and Schremp straight across? Antropov isn’t exactly a cure-all, but he’d be a big improvement at LW over Nilsson this season.
In any case, Nashville’s one of those teams that always seems to play the Oilers tight, and given that there’s only one point separating 6th and 11th, things are lining up in a bad way.
Hey Jon – ya think Burkie will deal with Tambo?
I cant believe people still mention Avery. If ever there was a definition of a locker room cancer – he is it. Dallas with Avery – last in the conference. Without – fighting for a playoff spot.
Goilers.
Go Cards.
Oilerdago: Sure, I think he’d deal with Tambellini. They worked in the same office for a long time.
sier//If we’re looking for help up front, Nik Antropov is a guy I’d look at. Say Nilsson and Schremp straight across? Antropov isn’t exactly a cure-all, but he’d be a big improvement at LW over Nilsson this season.//
Antropov is a RW/centre, and shoots right, and has spent very little time in his NHL career at LW. Pony is the LW.
Do you think Lowe and Burke are in a p^%&## contest for JayBo?
Music talk.
Currently have an 80′s mix going on the iPod. Coney Hatch’s “Hey Operator” just played, sandwiched in between a couple of B-list Pat Benatar tracks, “I am the Warrior” and “I Need a Hero”.
Wow.
sandwiched in between a couple of B-list Pat Benatar tracks, “I am the Warrior” and “I Need a Hero”.
I am the Warrior = Patti Smith & Scandal
I Need a Hero = Bonnie Tyler
I'm 37 and not ashamed I knew those off the top of my head.
[clap] [clap]
That photo just reminds me of “Still No Names” quantum leap article. I hope I got the blog right, sorry if I didn’t.
Stillnoname – one word. Don’t feel bad though. It seems like every site that links to us has a different spelling with different spacings in its blogroll.
Antropov is a RW/centre, and shoots right, and has spent very little time in his NHL career at LW. Pony is the LW.
Thanks, I had them backwards for some reason.
Alright then, Ponikarovsky +/- for a some combination of Nilsson, prospects or picks.
Woodguy: then why the HELL did they both say they’re Pat Benatar when I downloaded them?
Stupid internet.
Alice: I’m not being the slightest contrary. I actually believe everything I say.
One single fact is clear, and this is that the Oilers are a terribly inconsistent team. And no one, who has any power whatsoever, is ever going to fix this situation.
As a fan I’m starting to not give a fuck.
Most everyone else is currently holding their breath.
Another Canadian team might be getting 10 hung on them this afternoon. 6-2 Caps over the Sens, 2nd period still going on.
That Ovechkin guy has 3G. He’s pretty good. And Ottawa has descended back to their pre-1996 levels of suck. I think it would be great if they got Tavares – better to see a talent like that in a Canadian market than rotting in Atlanta or Long Island.
I am the Warrior = Patti Smith & Scandal
This is *bang bang*, not *clap clap*
For the record, I like Potulny a lot more than Reddox when it comes to having the potential to top out somewhere in Pisani-territory.
Holy crap. Mason has had mono for three weeks and he’s been good until last night.
Rod’s a great listen but not even he can communicate the details.
How’s Potulny’s skating? I’ve heard that’s his biggest knock.
Shea Weber >>> Dion Phaneuf
Bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, better.
And I know it sounds mean, but I hope Tootoo has severe post-concussion syndrome and is out for life. Karma would dictate as much.
Potulny’s skating is like Pisani or Horcoff’s, IMO. Not pretty like Cogliano or Niedermayer, but he seems to get from point A to point B just fine.
Has anyone found a working feed for the game?
That photo just reminds me of “Still No Names” quantum leap article. I hope I got the blog right, sorry if I didn’t.
That would be the one, spacing quibbles notwithstanding. =)
Also, stupid afternoon games. I didn’t even realize until I read Hbomb’s message about Private Eyes that it was a 12:00, not 6:00, start. Sigh…
http://www.justin.tv/dman2077
Last Sunday, I saw something in Matheson’s column suggesting a hypothetical Hamhuis for Lupul deal.
My thought on that is this: if Nashville is willing to move Hamhuis, the Oilers should be calling, because that is the type of defenseman the Oilers could use. He’s only 25 and is signed through next season at a very reasonable 2.0 million cap hit.
On the other hand, to see Lupul get buried on a shit team like the Predators until they buy out his bloated extension (4.25 million cap hit starting next season for four years) sometime in 2-3 seasons…that would be the kind of debacle I’d enjoy watching.
Thanks more green. ATDHE is broken today and nhl gamecenter isn’t carrying the game.
I find Barry Trotz’s complete lack of a neck disturbing.
Watching Montreal – Boston. Do you know who’s in the lineup for the Habs tonight?
Alex Henry.
How in the seven hells does that guy keep getting work?
Alex Henry. He has the Isbister advantage.
He’s big. In the minds of NHL teams, big = good. Coke machines get extra chances.
And pardon my language, but Roloson’s rebound control so far today has been fucking awful.
potulny for what’s his face is looking decent
Alex Henry gets work because he’s big.
*Bang Bang* has to be Love Shack by B52′s.
You want to talk retro?
Turn over to CBC and check out the CAC jerseys that the Habs are sporting today.
They’re….striped. Very striped.
Prison break in Montreal.
There is a certain class of hockey fan that centers their thoughts on the game around hits and fights. A common argument on the boards and ‘sphere is that the Oilers are too soft and can’t win because they don’t hit.
For fun:
Top ten teams in hits per game – points per game average: 1.11
Middle ten teams in hits per game – points per game average: 1.08
Bottom ten teams in hits per game – points per game average: 1.14
Huh.
I’m not going to discount the importance of playing physical, but the “hits” stat is one of the worst ones out there.
Why? Totally subjective. What counts as a hit in Detroit probably doesn’t even register in Edmonton.
It is one area of the game where I refuse to “trust the numbers”.
Woodguy: then why the HELL did they both say they’re Pat Benatar when I downloaded them?
Same reason all parody songs are by Weird Al Yankovic, and all Canadian musical comedy is the Arrogant Words. I find that latter phenomenon especially confusing with regards to Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie’s Toronto Sucks. The Worms are from Ontario; why would they be extolling the virtues of Edmonton?
(Also, having recently moved here, I can verify that New Brunswick’s malls are just fine.)
Wtching this gm at my bud’s supr bwl party whil the rst are playng pokr. So, tapng the gm at home and I”ll score it and pst the reslts 2moro.
Oil lokd good early on bt Nsh ruled the lst 5 min. Terrible rebond contrl by Roli and thts a concrn
Hapy bday, HB.
And, yes, I would take a chance on Avery and Emery as well.
Bargains both.
You want to talk retro?
Turn over to CBC and check out the CAC jerseys that the Habs are sporting today.
They’re….striped. Very striped.
Yeah, I switched over right before the Montreal goal. Holy hell.
Fun fact: The Canadiens originally switched over to the modern red-with-large-blue-stripe-in-the-middle design for Ottawa games only, because even the players could barely tell the two teams apart. The sweater change became permanent, with a new logo, the following year (1913).
There’s some robot from Russia that’s currently destroying the league. Ovenchicken or something?
Kid might be good.
LT, how dare you?
Shooting at the walls of heartache
*BANG BANG*
I am the waweeorrrrrrr.
Best speech impediment ever.
Steve: when I think New Brunswick malls, I think the mall that Bubbles steals the shopping carts from on “Trailer Park Boys”.
It, thus, reminds me of Village Tree Mall or Grandin Mall in St. Albert, circa about 1989. Shit-holes both.
Hop in my Chrysler,
it’s as big as a whale
and it’s about to set sail!
I got me a car, it seats about twenty
So c’mon and bring your jukebox money.
The Love Shack is a little old place
where we can get together
Love Shack baby! Love Shack bay-bee!
(Love Shack…Love Shack…)
Love Shack, that’s where it’s at!
Bang bang bang on the door baby!
Knock a little louder baby!
Bang bang bang on the door baby!
I can’t hear you
Bang bang on the door baby
Bang bang on the door
Bang bang on the door baby
Bang bang
You’re what?… Tin roof, rusted!
Love Shack, baby Love Shack!
Love Shack, baby Love Shack!
Love baby, that’s where it’s at
Love Shack, baby Love Shack!
Love baby, that’s where it’s at
Huggin’ and a kissin’,
Pretty quiet period, other than that one bomb Weber rang off the pipe. Wow. A few hits, including 2 by Penner, both on Hamhuis, and both within 15 seconds of Hamhuis hitting him first. I don’t mind when other guys run at Penner, as Kevin Quinn said it might wake him up.
Robert Nilsson is catching my eye again, and in a good way. He seems to have a bit more jump since returning from his latest injury, has done pretty well on the port side with Cole over the last month or so.
Brodziak rises when place with skill. The Oilers Tim Wallach.
Greetings earthlings, I am Hemsky, take me to your ice arena.
LT: Are those the worst lyrics ever?
It, thus, reminds me of Village Tree Mall or Grandin Mall in St. Albert, circa about 1989. Shit-holes both.
You don’t need to tell me; I grew up in Grandin. Village Tree’s gone now, of course, and I hear they’re taking Grandin Mall down one of these days, too. I won’t exactly miss them.
What I’ve seen in Fredericton would be more on par with St. Albert Centre, or even Kingsway, which is certainly adequate for me very limited mall needs.
Ok, here’s the kind of thing that makes life difficult for 10 in the ESPTS/60 department.
Shift starts with a faceoff in the Oilers zone. Horcoff joins Brodziak and Reddox for the start of the shift. Puck gets up the ice, off goes Horcoff, on goes Hemsky.
I hear people scream that “Horcoff’s getting all this extra icetime, why is he not producing more?” THAT, right there, is why.
Not all extra ESTOI is created equal. There’s candy, and then there’s chewing on a pine-cone.
Bruce: Your opinion of Love Shack says more about you than it does about Love Shack.
You know, the last few times I’ve been to St. Albert, I’ve missed Village Tree Mall. It was a hole, absolutely, but that new Village Landing thing they have there is just a generic piece of dull, suburbian architectural kitsch.
Say what you will about St. Albert’s crappy malls, but they had character.
Coach: correction, it goes like this:
“Hello folks, my name is God, but you can call me Ales.”
Lord Bob: I understand that but the only reason I got to the mall is to have my shoes repaired. I shopped for some jewellry for my wife at Christmas but lordy the selection is so much better in Edmonton.
That sequence on Vishnovsky before Hemsky ate the Space Marines up was sublime.
Hits a guy in the corner.
Then, he picks a pocket, does a hard turn to avoid a hit and a turnover and outlets all in one motion.
That was like a good Manhattan. It’s expected to be so good, so not many people notice how good it is.
Alrighty, I’m turning off the game and heading out on the road. If history repeats itself the Oilers will now score 3 goals. Everyone can thank me later =).
It’s already working, Uni. Oilers PP. You just know Hemsky is going to get a point soon. He’s a beauty.
Hemsky is trying too hard
Bruce: Your opinion of Love Shack says more about you than it does about Love Shack.
LT: That’s good, cuz there isn’t much to say about lyrics that unremittingly awful.
Can’t say as I remember the tune, and I suspect I’m thankful for that. At a guess it’s one of those songs you get up and dance to so you don’t have to listen to it.
Say what you will about St. Albert’s crappy malls, but they had character.
I miss a lot of the pre-renovated malls in Edmonton back in the 80′s. Trips to Northgate (the one across the street from Northwood, now called Northtown) to K-Mart for new rubber boots every spring, for example, back when we lived in CastleDowns. Getting stuck at Londonderry due to the parking lot being flooded on July 31st, 1987 (Edmontonians remember this day all too well).
My best memory of Village Tree? The old Cineplex theatres. They had 12 cinemas, but I swear to God that the screens were only a bit bigger than the TV I currently own. Used to go there in grade 9 every Tuesday with my friends to see a movie. That was in 1997. Such an important ritual this was, I missed out on watching game 4 of the Oilers/Stars series (or a good part of it). Yes, there was a girl involved in the decision to still go….
Ok, back to the currnet game. Hemsky’s got jump today. I get the feeling he’s going to do something ridiculous here, it’s coming….
Moreau’s had a nice period.
Smid’s moving smoothly with the puck. Still zero after the blue but he’s gaining confidence. Reminds me of Poti when carrying the puck.
Joel Ward makes the entire Oiler powerplay look like imbeciles. One motivated guy outhustled at least HUA Oilers on that sequence.
Nice rush by Smid. Too bad the guy has zero finish, every once in a while he shows nice puck-rushing instincts.
Hemsky is getting double-double shifted now. Out with Moreau and Cogliano now.
Smid with a turnover, Roloson with a weak goal to that oversized shit-head Arnott. Fuck.
Anytime a game is sleepy like this, we seem to lose. What is that?
And it was actually Dumont who scored. Damn, 0-for-2 there.
Brutal giveaway by Gilby on that goal, and then Horcoff rings one off the bar going the other way.
Ugh.
10 and 83 are just wheeling today.
Anyone have the goal-posts hit stat for the season so far? I get the idea that Horcoff’s having a top-ten season in THAT stat category.
This Rinne guy is good. Nashville might be in Buffalo/San Jose territory soon with regards to goalie procurement if they keep this up.
HBomb: You and Kevin Quinn both. At least you corrected yourself re: Smid. He corrected his identification of the goal scorer, but not of the culprit.
Or should I say, culprits. Roli has got to make that stop. On a day when Rinne is stopping everything, we can’t afford a sieve job like that.
… Tom Gilbert is playing forward with Hemsky and Horcoff on the PP.
Wait, what?
Or should I say, culprits. Roli has got to make that stop. On a day when Rinne is stopping everything, we can’t afford a sieve job like that.
Agreed. Roloson has been going Salo-style a BIT too often for me lately. Count me in the “highly skeptical” group when it comes to the idea of re-upping him for an extra year after this one.
Also, not a fan of this 3D PP business. If they want a sniper, why not try Potulny out there?
Is Penner hurt?
Sorry Lowetide, but Liam Reddox sucks. Everytime I see the guy, he’s chasing to catch up to the play, missing the puck, missing a hit, falling over….
When everyone is healthy, he should not be in the lineup.
Guess not.
Must still be sleeping.
Two powerplays and 3:57 later we finally set up Steve Staios for a 40-footer. Be still my heart.
Powerplay outshot 3-1 in two opportunities.
Nasnville is playing the Oilers the same damn way Minnesota plays the Oilers.
If this score holds up, this game goes in the pile with the home losses to Ottawa, Toronto, Florida and Los Angeles, as “unacceptable”.
Stop this PP experimentation, park Penner’s big butt in front of Rinne, and go with what’s been proven to work.
The advantage to using 3D on the first unit is that we get Staios on the 2nd unit.
Gilby there had to be a direct message to 27?
And of course, he comes out and losses three puck battles shortly after seeing a defenseman with a mullet taking his spot on the PP.
Faceoffs through 40 minutes:
Horcoff 8-5, 62%
Brodziak 6-8, 43%
Cogliano 3-4, 43%
Pouliot 0-4, 0%
Potulny 0-7, 0%
Oilers 17-28, 38%
Does anyone know where I can stream the game: Justin TV just went down and ATDHE is working for me.
HBomb: No worries, we just see it differently. I can see him being a HS when Pisani returns btw.
You want to “punish” Penner? Cut his even strength time.
Don’t mess with the PP units and cut off your nose to spite your face.
//This Rinne guy is good. Nashville might be in Buffalo/San Jose territory soon with regards to goalie procurement if they keep this up.//
How so?
The Rangers developed Dunham.
The Canadiens developed Vokoun.
The Stars developed Ellis.
Lowetide: I think he’s an NHLer right now. But he’s an end of the roster guy. What I’m seeing on the ice says he’s not there yet in terms of him being an everyday contributor.
I don’t see why we’re doing the “baptism by fire” with a guy who might top out as a 3rd liner. I can kind-of understand that approach with the Gagner and Cogliano types, but why not leave the Reddox types in the AHL until their ready and fill out the bottom half of the roster with veterans?
When the whole team is healthy, you’ve got all of Reddox, Stortini, MacIntyre, Potulny and Brule (and Strudwick to an extent) in the mix for one forward spot in the lineup. Given the questions about this team’s “grit”, I’d say Stortini is the smart bet for 4RW duty in that scenario.
I guess this team never learns, right? Oilers will need some luck AND a PPG to right the ship and even then it’s probably only gonna guarentee OT because Roli’s looking shaky.
AGAIN.
If this team wants to make the playoffs, they can’t leave points like these two today on the table.
Especially with Chicago coming to town Tuesday – they’re turning into guaranteed loss night lately, like the early-mid 1990′s Oilers/Hawks “rivalry”.
HBomb: I certainly see MacT being able to use him in a different role when Pisani gets back and there are other candidates for his current role too. Having said that, I can also see that he isn’t bleeding goals (although he is giving up Corsi like crazy).
So he’s playing in some terrific luck for sure.
This stream is working for anyone interested:
http://www.justin.tv/halat80
Dennis:
But we have to develop JDD. He’s a future stud tender even though he’s never been anything more than average in the AHL for the past million years!!
Pouliot now suffering the wrath of MacT. Reddox up with Moreau and Cogliano to start the third.
I guess this team never learns, right?
“And yet this is a game they should win going away. “
Dennis: It’s more than just the team.
Brodziak up with Cole and Nilsson. That I don’t mind as much as the Reddox promotion, but still…
Every damn time Roloson stops a shot, there’s a rebound.
EVERY. DAMN. TIME.
And it’s pissing me off.
Ethan Moreau is the king of shooting it into the goalies crest. It’s a logo not a fucking target.
I thought diving was a penalty?
Ryan Jones with a world-class dive. Don VanMoustachehoven buys it.
In the Nashville end, I don’t think Rinne’s given up more rebounds than I can count on one hand. Guy is a sponge.
Hey, guys! We’re going to get shut out by the mighty Nashville Predators!
Ethan Moreau trying to put the puck through Rinne is like trying to break out of Alcatraz with a tea spoon.
Great vision and feed by Horc to set up that SH chance.
Erik Cole generates chances like BDHS (used to) generate children.
With surprising ease.
You know, simply based on who his uncle is, I want to see someone bash Ryan Suter’s face in. Is that wrong?
I wouldn’t put it past Moreau to think he’s every bit as talented as Morgan Freeman.
Sitting Penner on the PP when you are down 1 and desperate need a point to jump into 5th and hang on is the ultimate in stupid.
MacT is about to lose my living room, at least.
Pa. thet. ic.
That was Gilbert’s goal from the time the play left the zone. He lolly-gagged back to the zone.
Horrendous. Gilbert is either tiring or has found Grebs’ giant stash of blotter.
Where’s the fucking penalty on Arnott there?
This really does remind me of playing Minnesota. No wonder Nashville is one of the “eight I hate” (CGY, VCR, ANA, TOR, MIN, CAR, NSH, and MTL).
Fuck you Martin Erat. This game is over. Another two points that this team SHOULD have had down the drain.
Fucking lines are a mess. Pouliot and Penner hardly seeing the ice now.
Ferfuxsakes Gilbert, that’s two Primary Errors on you today. First one was just an error of commission, but that was a flat out lack of hustle. Inexcusable.
Nilsson to Hemsky. Wow.
STOP!
HEMMER TIME!
(clap-clap)
Penner was the only player that showed up for the blowout loss.
Penner is the only player that can cause problems in front of the net.
Penner has played an average game.
So Penner is benched. Screw you Mact.
RE: Gilbert. That was a Jekyll and Hyde shift.
Saved a goal by batting a puck away from behind Roloson at the start of it, but gets just left in the dust by Erat seconds later.
77′s worst game since October, IMO.
Coach: none of that matters, because Penner is fat.
That was Gilbert’s goal from the time the play left the zone. He lolly-gagged back to the zone.
Right you are Coach. Just looked at the whole sequence on PVR. Gilbert took a bad angle to the puck along the boards in the Nashbvile end, lost the battle, then lolly-gagged it, then didn’t notice Erat actually moving his legs. A truly Horrible sequence.
I’m listening to this on Rod-o-Vision, but I just saw the highlight of the Hemsky goal on HNiC. Great job by Hemsky to be in position, and incredible vision by Nilsson to make the goal happen.
But where on earth were the Predators? Hemsky had so much room around him that he could have sat down, had a picnic, watched “The Godfather”, and then shot.
Moreau with nine shots today. DeBrusk just called it “Ovechkin-like”.
Yeah Louie…minus the “finish” part.
Time for the PP to come up big.
Saved a goal by batting a puck away from behind Roloson at the start of it, but gets just left in the dust by Erat seconds later.
HBomb: True, except the hero play in the crease was to correct for his own bad giveaway just before that. Gilbert didn’t exactly look like a $4 MM player on that shift, to put it very mildly.
Another useless powerplay. 1 shot on 3 PP’s.
Terrible.
Time for the PP to come up big.
As if. That makes 3 for 3 in horrible powerplays. 4 guys working beat 5 guys standing around every time.
This game is pissing me off.
Shea Weber is what the media tells people Dion Phaneuf is.
Moreau, stop trying to fucking do it all by yourself.
Has Pouliot seen the ice this period at all?
I miss the power plays where everyone waited for Souray to shoot.
This game is the whole Oilers season in a nutshell.
Inconsistent play. Lifeless play. A few invisible players. Benched players. Some skill moving the puck from the D. Pop gun finish on offence. Hemsky the only bright spot. And all along I thought we might win anyway.
Horcoff played his bag off today. Won a ton of faceoffs, hit the crossbar, had a chance in the slot in the 3rd on the PP but the puck bounced.
Hell of a game. He’s guaranteed to get shit on as a worthless plugger on a fan board in the next hour or so. Book it.
Boy these guys are a roller coaster. That’s an L they should be pretty unhappy about because there were passengers.
So.
How ’bout them Blue Jackets?
Oh yeah, can’t blame the goalie really when you only score 1 goal, but that shitty first goal for Nashville that Roloson allowed came back to bite ‘em in the ass, didn’t it?
Tough loss. Didn’t watch the whole game, but what I saw didn’t seem too bad – lots of chances, just no luck today. That goal by Hemmer – the puck was fluttering and he still picked the corner. Pretty impressive.
Man, what is it with Finland producing goalies? I’m going to go ahead and guess that the Oilers don’t have a scout in Finland.
… and yet another home loss from a club that has never demonstrated one bit of home ice domination all season long. 12 wins in 25 home games just doesn’t cut it, especially when we keep losing to non-playoff teams that manage to outwork us somehow.
Shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckerandtits this is a frustrating team.
Turned the game on just after Hemsky scored.
Watched the last 10 boring minutes.
Turned off game.
When’s the next game? I don’t care lol.
Rinne played really well today. It took a perfect play involving our two most skilled players to beat him, and that was it. Sigh.
…oh, and Penner seems to be back to his pre-MacT-calling-him-out form. Great.
Moreau is so dumb he would probably try to break out of Alcatraz with a dessert spoon.
Seven home losses to team’s that are below them in the standings.
That’s some nice reckless driving there, Mr.B;)
Years ago – I’ll say it was the ’02 season because I had my dish and Grier was still playing and Burke was on fire – the Oilers tied Phx during a Friday night home game where they scored just one goal but had 40 odd shots and all kinds of chances. These were the days when Comrie was the man and 94 had that wicked start but was piled up in the corner by Karpotsev in Nov and was never the same when he rushed back for the Olys.
Anyway, the Oilers worked their asses off but couldn’t snipe. Today wasn’t nearly that bad but Rinne made a couple of beauty saves and stared guys down from the exact spot from which Dumont scored from the Preds.
the Edmonton Oilers: you can’t set your watch by them but there’s still time for this season;)
That’s all until tomorrow, folks;)
The Oilers have lost at home, in regulation, to Ottawa, Toronto, Florida, Los Angeles and now Nashville.
10 points right there that they should have had at least six of, if not more, if they had only shown up.
I don’t care what anyone thinks, a good chunk of this team being repeatedly unprepared over and over again HAS to fall at the feet of the coaching staff.
If any game shows brass that this team needs a trade this is it. A blowout can be written off, but we keep losing games that we have the skill to dominate and in those games there are too many passengers.
(BTW, Horc. seemed okay, but we need more out of him than he showed. He lost some of my love just now.)
kris: Lowetide said there were passengers today. That I’ll agree with.
The guys who are NOT on said list? Hemsky, Horcoff, Moreau, Nilsson. Everyone else can take a look in the mirror.
The defense has driven the bus a lot of nights this year in terms of generating positives – they did very little tonight in terms of helping out the offense.
This team lacks the goaltending that can steal games for you. Rollie is an average goaltender. Both of the goals were savable.
”Error” on Tom Gilbert for both goals. Horrific game, and he was the difference.
That said, the Oilers played well. Sometimes, you just have to give credit to the opponent for a well played game.
The true test will be on Tuesday. If the Oilers can rebound and win that one, it tells us something about this team.
Actually, one more to add to the “nice” list: I thought Cole had a good game today.
…oh, and Penner seems to be back to his pre-MacT-calling-him-out form. Great.
What?
What the fuck?
Tom Gilbert had a bad game. But he’s been good pretty much every game since November 1st, so I’ll chalk it up to a one-time thing and move on.
(BTW, Horc. seemed okay, but we need more out of him than he showed. He lost some of my love just now.)
WHAT?!?!?!?!
GTFO. Now.
Speaking of passengers, I’m guessing Pouliot might be in the pressbox come Tuesday. Did nothing in his 5:19. A needless penalty, 0-4 in the circle, and rode the pine in the second half of the game. He had the only negative Corsi on the club (-2); the leaders at +10 were Souray and …
…
wait for it …
…
Reddox
95% of Oiler games sees them with at least one glaring hole…the goalie…the forwards…the powerplague, the penalty kill, faceoffs, whatever.
Essentially i saw a bunch of players with quite a little skill, desperately half assed passing the puck to each other with little confidence that the guy at the other end would even receive said puck, in their haste to be ‘defensively aware’.
Oilers play a quantum physics approach to hockey.
I don’t know how anyone says we played a good game when Joel Ward was easily the best player on the ice.
re: pathetic PP
Robert Nilsson,
- He ranks first on the Oilers in PP Points/60 with a sparkling 5.28.
- He has the 26st best PP Points/60 in the NHL.
- He has the best PP GFON/60 on the Oilers with a 7.12. The next closest player is Andrew Cogliano at 6.38
- He as the 79th best PP GFON/60 in the NHL.
I think it’s safe to say that Nilsson is an impact PP player.
Yet…
Nilsson ranks 6th on the team in PP minutes per game.
Andrew Cogliano who ranked 3nd in Points/60 and 2nd in GFON/60 sits in 7th in PP minutes per game.
Horcoff ranks 7th in GFON/60 and 4th in Points/60 yet he receives the 2nd most PP time on the Oilers – and a full minute more than the next closest player.
Clearly a case cannot be made that Horcoff’s time is warranted because of his face off abilities either because Andrew Cogliano is 2nd in GFON/60 and Gagner is 4th in GFON/6O.
Dustin Penner was 12th in the NHL last year in PP goals. He’s been taken off the top unit and been replaced with Tom Gilbert who has no experience and certainly no track record of success at forward on the PP.
Just another example of poor coaching decisions by MacTavish. These are indefensible fundamental errors that you would expect from a peewee coach.
Roloson was not sharp imo, he was Tommy Gun today. Gilbert had a poor effort and most of the blue had a tough time on the simple tape to tape stuff today, but I’ll mention Grebeshkov as a guy who maybe was okay on the day.
Up front, I thought Horcoff, Hemsky, Cole, Brodziak, Nilsson and Ethan rifles looked like they had an idea that it was a game worth winning.
That’s a lot of passengers folks. A lot.
Suppose the city of Edmonton offered to build a new arena for the Florida Panthers?
Souray at forward 6 vs 5 with Gilbert and Visnovsky on the points? Leaving Nilsson and Penner on the bench? Benching Pouliot for one penalty and playing Reddox in his place? Gilbert at forward on the PP?
Jesus, MacT is making some very odd, very bad decisions. Penner has been off the last two games, but I still want him in front of the net at the end of the game and on the PP. And I want the big shot on the point, not in front of the net. And I want the second best offensive player on the night (Nilsson) on the ice.
And Hbomb, while Horcoff played a hell of a game, he still chopped the puck to bits on several offensive plays, couldn’t finish, and is still making rather odd decisions in the offensive zone…throwing the puck away from his teammates, forcing passes. He doesn’t have the offensive confidence he did last year, and his passing seems very off. Hell of a player, but he’s got to finish to really earn that extension, IMO.
Mactavish has lost the room I’m in.
Fuck it. Go Steelers. (my one and only NFL team since 1963)
Clearly a case cannot be made that Horcoff’s time is warranted because of his face off abilities either because Andrew Cogliano is 2nd in GFON/60 and Gagner is 4th in GFON/6O.
Actually, the faceoff thing is probably exactly why a case can be made that he should get those minutes, at least in Cogliano’s case (13 sucks at faceoffs).
On Gagner though – when he gets back, if they could put him on the first unit (he’s showing some improvement on the dot) with Penner and Hemsky, maybe they can get things going like last year in the stretch run.
Thanks to the lack of a second veteran centre on the squad, Horcoff’s getting ridden into the ground right now, and if there’s a way to get him less minutes, I’m all for it.
Be warned though – don’t expect a huge jump in PP production from the first unit. Hemsky drives the bus, but playing the “static” system the Oilers do, they’re only going to produce so much – special teams are more about the systems being used than the players executing them, and the Oilers PP system has been flawed for years.
That’s a lot of passengers folks. A lot.
LT: Where was this negative talk up top when we needed it?
That’s 9 out of 10 losses to the Preds, and I don’t even remember one that got to OT. No Neck and the No Names break our hearts every year.
“Actually, the faceoff thing is probably exactly why a case can be made that he should get those minutes, at least in Cogliano’s case (13 sucks at faceoffs).”
If this was the case it would reflect in the GFON/60 category.
Cogliano is our worst faceoff man yet he has the best GFON/60 among centers.
Horcoff is our best faceoff man yet he has the worst GFON/60 among not only centers but any forward who averages 2 minutes on the PP.
The facts certainly don’t support any correlation between faceoff ability and PP success.
Egads, at least I got the 3 goals part right, just in the wrong ratio.
It would seem my missing the Oil score everytime I don’t watch a game has nothing in comparison to Lowetide’s positivity. The man is lethal. If I’m ever ill don’t ever tell me I’ll be fine, say I’m going to die for sure or something =(.
@ Dubya:
And Hbomb, while Horcoff played a hell of a game, he still chopped the puck to bits on several offensive plays, couldn’t finish, and is still making rather odd decisions in the offensive zone…throwing the puck away from his teammates, forcing passes. He doesn’t have the offensive confidence he did last year, and his passing seems very off. Hell of a player, but he’s got to finish to really earn that extension, IMO.
This is really funny.
Yeah, Steelers! Never in doubt.
I’ve got a bunch of guys out there who were chopping today. Outside of Hemsky (again), no one had any finish.
I’ll give a break to guys with try. Moreau, Horcoff and Cole brought it. Seeing Nilsson put in some work is a pleasant surprise.
On the other end of the spectrum, Penner got tossed under the bus by MacT, again. Anyone want to put odds on him having a different address after the trading deadline?
@ FCM
This is really funny.
How so?
With Lowe’s midas, Penner will be bought out, sign an entry level deal with Calgary and come back and addle Hemsky.
On the other end of the spectrum, Penner got tossed under the bus by MacT, again. Anyone want to put odds on him having a different address after the trading deadline?
Lessen’ Tambelowni gets Staal back, he’ll have lost the room that I’m in.
Given MacT’s comments that it’s a “stretch” for 27 to play on the top line, what does this say about:
A: Vish Throttler’s decision to sign him those summers ago
B: his role going forward with the Oil
C: the chance that he’ll even be here much longer.
A 2-4 says I have to go to sleep but you can discuss this while I rest;)
Not only is Lowe a made man but he’s the f’in Godfather.
MacT goes before Penner.
What can you do with Penner? I think you can probably acquire another person’s headache in exchange for him.
Good for MacT, though. Often when you’ve pounded on a guy two times it’s that third broken jaw that gets the job done. Jesus. Quit already, in case you haven’t noticed no one is enjoying this. In some ways this season is as bad as the Burnett idiocy.
//With Lowe’s midas, Penner will be bought out, sign an entry level deal with Calgary and come back and addle Hemsky.//
Calgary is waiting to sign Brodziak to be Glencross’s centre next year. The will offer 1.5M for a guy who was the tenth most productive even center last year. They will get him because the Oil only want to pay him 850K while chasing Gaborik.
So, merely 2 games removed from the worst home loss in Oilers history and a week where the players had their asses roasted on an open fire for what seemed like an eternity, and they give the fans a game where you could *maybe* say 1/3 of them showed up, while the rest treated this game like an irksome distraction that was getting in the way of their killer guitar hero/rock band jam sessions.
Good times.
Given MacT’s comments that it’s a “stretch” for 27 to play on the top line
See, this is what I don’t get. When he’s played consistently on the first line and first PP, he’s been productive, and filled a niche that no one else on the team can (immovable object in front of the net). Are things really that bad behind the scenes?
MacT goes before Penner.
I hope you’re right Traktor, unless Penner+ somehow lands us Kovalchuk, giving up on this guy after less than two seasons would make this organization look (more) bush league.
Good for MacT, though. Often when you’ve pounded on a guy two times it’s that third broken jaw that gets the job done.
Seconded.
Credit to Penner though for standing in there with the media and replying to MacTavish’s comments. He had a heck of a lot less public snark than I would have.
Still, I don’t think MacTavish’s comments were that off – while Penner’s probably a first unit PP guy, is he really more than a second-line LW at evens?
More amateur journalism from Terry Jones
Criticizing Penner at this point is in-bounds and totally called for, but seriously, can this guy not get through an article without eating the corn out of Ethan Moreau’s turds?
Where was a rip job like this on sacred cow #18 when the guy was total crap from mid-November until his hat-trick on Anderson Jersey Retirement night?
The double standard in the room is so bloody obvious, it’s disgusting.
@Hbomb: I don’t read Terry Jones anymore. No good for the blood pressure.
Though someone really should go all Fire Joe Morgan on his ass at some point. I think that would be entertaining in the midst of some horrific losing streak.
I don’t read Terry Jones anymore. No good for the blood pressure.
Jones is a fucking imbecile. Has been since forever. For a guy whose insight is as deep as his paragraphs are long, he has way more power in this community than he deserves. (At least on the Eskimo side of things, given how Damon Allen, Danny McManus and Tom Higgins were all run out of town, all on Jones’ recommendation in a knee-Jerk column written on the heels of one playoff loss, in each case one year after Grey Cup heroics/victories. He found his whipping boy, whipped him good, and the next thing you knew the guy was gone.)
Ignoring your advice and checking out the link, I see that he has taken the extra step of denigrating Penner for hiding out in the training room, then describes how 13 reporters waited him out. Hard to imagine Dustin kept that many reporters waiting for very long; not with the press buffet table calling. That is a completely gratuitous cheap shot, doubly so given that I saw the said interview in which Penner answered the questions in apparent good humour and frankly pointed the finger at himself while avoiding the clear opportunoity to go off on his coach. In that aspect at least, Penner was a consummate professional.
Which is more than I can say for Terry Fucking Jones.
Bruce: I don’t believe the CFL to be “real”;) so while I can’t say for sure if what you allege about Jones powers are right, I’ll certainly give you the benefit of a doubt.
HB: I thought the very same thing about 18 and his treatment today whilst reading all the dailes’ takes on yesterday’s game.
To all: Now, not sure if this is going to be the case or not because I still haven’t gotten to the game, but I imagine the Oilers outchanced the Preds in this L more so than they did in Fri’s W over the Wild.
On Fri I had them winning the battle 18-13; 10-11 EV; 7-0 on ST. Ok, so, let’s start from there. I believe I remember yesterday’s game clearly enough that the Oilers held the edge in EV chances but later on today or tomorrow I’ll know sure. If I was writing for either of the papers I wouldn’t get caught up in any angles of this loss other than the ones that said that Rinne outplayed Roli and the Oil needed a PPG. The Preds goalie made two dandy stops on 83, he robbed 51 and there’s one other beauty that I’m forgetting. Plus, 51 shot the puck over a gaping net and the puck bounced on both 10 and 77 when they had open nets.
Guys were getting in the right position; maybe not Every guy but enough guys to win the game.
Bottom line is no matter how many passengers the Oilers had, there were still enough guys working hard in order to win this game. I guess it was just time to give the pluggers a kick and 27′s a frequent target as well.
I believe 27 will always get the boots because of a few factors:
- he was overpaid when he was brought here
- we gave up picks for him
- his contract is Really gonna stick out if the current recession drops the cap into the 50 mill strata.
- MacT is constantly disappointed in him enough that when the media pokes around, MacT elects not to shelter him.
I thought he’d work out here – and I keep saying that because I don’t mind admitting I was wrong – and he isn’t and as JW said, he is a 2nd line LW. I wish the papers would get to the point with 27 where I am with 5. You know neither guy is ever likely to cover their bets but it was Kevin Lowe who made those bets and just leave those guys alone and lay the boots to that fucking blowhard.
Of course with 27 I’ve also counted enough scoring chances to know he’s doing a fine enough job on the top line and that each and every PP should feature him screening the goal; or at least being iced and thus getting the chance to do so.
But newspaper reporting hasn’t changed in Edm and likely won’t do so in the near future. You’ve got Gregor over at ON who’s always looking for a fight and who believes that because he goes to the rink every day he knows more than any fan ever would. Then you’ve got Brownlee who goes off his fucking head every time I ask him why him or no other guy has never take a shot at Lowe.
So, old themes prevail and that’s why guys are gonna go after the big guy who doesn’t look like he hustles enough and why they’ll eat 18′s ass for throwing 150 shots on goal; despite the fact that all of them come from the outside and never the slot of crease.
Things never change in this city in that regard.
I’m not pumping my own tires here because there’s a lot of guys with good insights who congregate here day after day and the truth is you gotta read the blogs to get the truth.
Dennis: I can't speak to TJ's presumed power other than to say he wrote the columns and within days/weeks his veangeful wishes came true. Short of invading Hugh Campbell's inner consciousness, any causal relationship cannot be verified. But A —> B in those three specific instances, as sure as eggs is eggs.
In each case Jones sounded like a disgruntled fan walking out of the stadium after a loss made especially disappointing by expectations raised by prior success. Find a scapegoat and shit all over him. The guy really puts the "un-" in "professional".
Ancient memory here, but it seems to me he called for Steve Smith's scalp in 1986. (I'm guessing May 1 or so) Glen Sather paid him no mind, and Smitty went on to win three Cups here. To paraphrase Sather then, and said with emphasis many times myself, "Fuck you Terry Jones."
Incredibly confounding stuff from MacT. Throwing away 2 points to “send a message” isn’t a luxury the Oilers have, but MacTavish did it again. Penner’s big body in front of Rinne is exactly what they needed…but the coach went with 3D on the PP and with Roli pulled. Did the noon start time have MacTavish thinking it was a scrimmage? Then, after a game in which only a handful were better than average, MacT wasted no time singling out 27 and dumping on him. Is that supposed to motivate Penner? Hor-pen-sky *is* a very good line. Why is MacTavish so determined to not only break them up, but also question the potential of 27? If Penner had any confidence, it’s definitely gone now. Why–when the numbers show the PP gets results with Penner out there–is the coach so quick to pull 27 from the PP? Using Gilbert instead? Three D on the unit is bad enough, but using Gilbert–who did nothing but fight the puck all game…WTF? Erratic doesn’t begin to describe it. I’m just lost on this. Exactly what is MacTavish trying to do? Only thing I can think of is that he’s trying to deflect the glare from himself. No question about it, MacTavish seems to enjoy serving up Penner for the media and fans who are more than eager to pin everything on one player. Sadly, too many eat it up without questioning (see Phil’s post).