Sale on Sail On, Sailor?

Last season we could see the Oilers a mile away when it came to the deadline. They were selling.

In fact, we talked about it in January. It’s not quite as easy to predict as it is in summer but we can read the tea leaves for fun and giggles anyway.

This time around the Edmonton Oilers will not be sellers. Any trade they make will bring back tools they can use for the stretch run: experienced blue, a center with faceoff skills and perhaps a left winger who can play on the top 2 lines. And a goalie to backup Roloson.

Any fool knows the Oilers will need to give in order to get, and here’s my list of possibles:

  1. Erik Cole. His name is here for a few reasons: he’s a UFA in summer and it is reasonable to assume that the Oilers can be persuaded to trade him in exchange for useful, younger players. I’ve read Boston and Pittsburgh as possible locations and it’s also reasonable that this trade could happen at any minute. The team acquiring a future UFA may feel every game is vital and could force the issue. Names I’ve heard include Vladimir Sobotka and Matt Hunwick from Boston, and Ryan Whitney from Pittsburgh (although that would need to be a bigger deal).
  2. Marc Pouliot. When the season is on the line and the coach sends you to sit by Rod Phillips, you are in trouble. I think Pouliot could be a player, but at this point (132 career NHL games) we’re probably seeing a crossroads (and another team) in his future.
  3. 2009 1st rounder. The Oilers have a head coach bleeding out and are extremely likely to use any non-NHL asset that is handy. Other teams will value a top 20 pick in the summer.
  4. Dustin Penner. I think it’s fairly clear that Penner is not a good fit for this coach and if the opportunity to send him away for 75 cents on the dollar arises it’ll get done.
  5. Robert Nilsson. He might have some value in an “Edmonton Oilers trade Robert Nilsson and their first round pick to a team for a better current LW option” kind of way.
  6. Theo Peckham. I don’t think they’ll do it, but a team looking to move a Jay McKee type (McKee’s cap number and length of contract make a deal for him specifically unlikely) would certainly be interested in a tough D on the cusp.

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136 Responses to "Sale on Sail On, Sailor?"

  1. doritogrande says:

    Missed Rob Schremp LT. Again. ;)

    I’d rather deal away assets to load up for the draft again this year. Let go some of the cap space (Cole, Roloson, Staios, Moreau if possible) so that we can go find a #1 goalie on July 1. Fernandez would be a good option there. Just make sure someone goes to Washington for Braden Holtby (G, Sas).

    And, just so it doesn’t go unnoticed, in addition to Riley Nash’s 4 point night that was pointed out in yesterday’s thread, Chris VandeVelde had a hat-trick yesterday. Oh, and Jeff Petry was shut-out.

  2. DBO says:

    nice post LT. The reality as you mentioned, is that any move we make will be a lateral/improvement and not a dump of older players. the rumoured Cole for Ruutu is good example of a possible move where we get a younger version of a player with similar skills. And although traktor poopooed my idea about Nashville, if they are selling you can get Sullivan, Bonk, devries and even Dan Ellis who is now the backup, but signed to a reasonable deal next year ($1.75 mill cap hit). If they could be had for prospects and picks it is the kind of deal a desperate GM/coach make in order to make a run at the playoffs and keep their jobs.

  3. Dave says:

    Is there any way to be a seller and still go for the playoffs?
    That would be ideal.

  4. HBomb says:

    Ok, I’m going to scream bloody murder if the Oilers sacrifice a first rounder just to get into the playoffs and get swept by Detroit (and save MacT’s job in the process).

    Talk about the “worst case scenario”….

  5. Mr DeBakey says:

    Disagree on Peckham; finally a big guy moving in a straight line from junior to pro

    Add Moreau, as has been pointed out here often,
    his value will never be higher.

    Add anybody playing in Springfield.

    Christ, I hope they do better than Vladimir Sobotka fo Cole

  6. Loxy says:

    Rather than being a buyer or a seller at this deadline, I feel like we are a dealer.

    We’re going to be doing both.

    (We should be doing both.)

  7. mjsh says:

    I find it difficult to fit being buyers and trading three of your top six forwards. I like Nillson and think he will be a player soon. And I actually think Penner is decent just not a 4 million dollar player.

  8. doritogrande says:

    (We should be doing both.)

    We could, but I don’t think that we “should”. I’d rather save up some cash to play with to lock up important RFAs Grebeshkov, Smid, Brule and Brodziak. A healthy Grebeshkov with Lubo next year makes our defensive corps the envy of everyone in the West outside of Detroit.

    I’d be looking at younger, still in Junior prospects at this juncture. There’s a backlog of prospects in Springfield still looking for playing time and it’d be best if we could weed through that mess first before adding any additional stresses to Springfield. The only real young addition I want to see to Springfield’s forward ranks next year is Omark. Bring some veteran Top-6 AHLers to line up with Potulny, Trukhno and Omark. No promoting Eberle, Nash or Vande Velde until we are contractually forced to. That goes double for Petry. Too many youngsters on the farm already.

  9. reijo29 says:

    Another little nugget from the well informed (being sarcastic) Bruce Garrioch.
    “The next player packing his bags in Ottawa will likely be D Christoph Schubert. The Oilers and Bolts may both be interested and need help on the blue line. It’s believed the Senators would like D Ladislav Smid from Edmonton in exchange for Schubert, a healthy scratch the past eight games. Smid has also been used sparingly”

    Does he go to bed at 10 eastern every night? Does he ever watch the teams out west?

    Smid has played between 16.5 and 20 minutes in each of the past 6 games, has only played less then 12.5 minutes in 3 games this year.

    Schubert has been benched since Clouston became coach and has only dressed for 35 games this year, 10 of which he played 10 or less minutes.

    Garrioch is as bad as Eklund, but for some reason I still read his Sunday morning articles, I think it’s to get a good laugh. I always read Matheson’s Hockey World first and he just puts Garrioch to shame.
    If we even care Garrioch also said:
    “All the talk has Oilers LW Erik Cole going to the Bruins, but they may not be the No. 1 suitor. The Penguins are likely willing to pay the price so Cole can play on C Sidney Crosby’s wing. The Habs may also have an interest in Cole.”

  10. B.C.B. says:

    Hbomb: I can only assume, if the Oilers trade their 1st round that a player, with at least one season on his contract after this, is coming back. First rounders for a UFA only makes sense if you are going to have home ice advantage in the up coming playoffs, and you have a lot of free agents in he summer (AKA: your time is now, and only now.). I hope Tambo understands this, I pray Tambo understands this.

  11. reijo29 says:

    I like the list LT, hope Peckham isn’t a chip and I legitimately think that Cogs is available for a Top 6 guy (LW) that is young and at least a couple years away from being a UFA.

    Hope that Moreau and Staios are available as well, Moreau must not want to leave Edm b/c he sure is playing terrible. Staios has done the opposite since Grebs went down I could easily see a playoff team taking a chance on him and his awful contract.

  12. Lowetide says:

    This is MacT’s team and this is his Waterloo. So, Moreau and Staios and Roloson and all of the veterans he relies on are staying imo.

  13. DBO says:

    There was a joke yesterday on one of the telecasts where they said Moreau and Staios have breakfast all the time and Staios has to explain the workings of the world to Moreau. basically trying to explain to him why he’s not on the powerplay. i know it was tongue in cheek, as they proceeded to talk about how great Moreau is as a leader (think it was sportsnet), but it’s a reminder that moreau over values his own skill level (as evidenced every time he tries to skate the puck through 3 guys).

    - trade moreau now while the league places value on him.
    - trade Staios while he still has value to a team needing veteran presence.
    - trade Cole for a younger version of himself.

    unfortuantely only one of these will come true, as it has been ponted out repeatedly that they will try and give mact what he needs to make a run.

  14. knighttown says:

    Well, first off, for this type of post we should all just get past what most of the hard core fans want to do because we as fans will be here in 5 years to reap the benefits of a soft rebuild whereas the management group has to:
    1. Pay the bills, meaning a playoff spot is far better than 9th.
    2. Worry about today with an eye to tomorrow.

    So the vast majority of us would like:

    1. Moreau and Roloson to Detroit for Helm and a 2nd.

    2. Staois to New Jersey for Patrice Cormier.

    Saying that, these trades are unrealistic for a team in a dog fight for 5th in the conference. I think there is no way in hell this team trades either Moreau or Staois because the management team feels they need more grit not less.

    On the other hand, if Ottawa is buying then you’ve got to draw a line below them as the Mason-Dixon line of buyers and sellers. So that leaves Tampa, Atlanta, Long Island and Toronto selling in the East. The West is even closer with no teams in a position where they couldn’t at least justify a buy but I think the well managed teams (and unfortunately they all seem to be in the West) will sell unless they get hot. Put LA, St. Louis, Nashville and Phoenix on the sellers list.

    That leaves around 8 sellers and 22 buyers and some of those buyers like Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Florida, NYR and Columbus have various factors that make their “buying” more desperate.

    I think those 8 sellers will move 10-15 players and be much better off in the future but the Oilers will kick tires on a few and end up with nothing more than a Wes Walz for Poo type of trade. And I support that.

    The ideal (realistic) last 2 months of the year for me would be a hold at the deadline but some good hockey down the stretch that gets them a date with Calgary. They’d lose in 5 or 6 but it would be fun and would give the kids some extremely valuable experience.

    One final note. If the rumblings about Jay-Bo being interested in signing here are true this changes everything and I advocate the jettisoning of salary with some PR comments about “hoping to land some big fish in the summer”.

  15. DBO says:

    if as you say LT that this is MacT’s team, and that they think he is back next year then does it make sense that they deal Penner as soon as possible? If you are keeping the coach, then deal Penner. if you are replacing the coach then keep Penner.

    so in the thought that MAcT will be back (threw up in my mouth a bit at that thought), what can we reasonably expect to get for Penner and Cole? keeping in mind that Tamblowe will make moves to try for the playoffs,prospects coming back won’t necessarily be the case sine he’ll want players that can help today.

  16. Lowetide says:

    Just to be clear, I don’t think MacT returns if they miss the playoffs. My bet would be Lowe.

    I can see them offloading Penner in an effort to get to the second season, though.

  17. HBomb says:

    Lowetide:

    1) You don’t just give Penner away though. He’s part of any package to take on a big salary, however. The hypothetical that a friend and I came up with was, IF the Oilers land Bouwmeester on July 1st, Penner, one of the kids (I say Cogliano), and one of Visnovsky/Souray (your mileage may vary) get offered in a package to Atlanta for Kovalchuk.

    Hemsky, Kovalchuk, Bouwmeester
    Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom

    See the idea here? Build the team around a “big three”.

    2) The fact that MacT holds Moreau and Staios on such a pedestal is one of the biggest reasons he has to go. If he didn’t, potentially this team would have two better players in Hejda and Glencross and an extra 1.5 million in cap space.

  18. DBO says:

    So if you are dealing for the now, then Cole for Ruutu from Carolina would seem to fit.

    As for Penner. Would Pittsburgh make a play for him? Whitney for penner straight across? Same salary, although it gives us a glut on the back end to deal with in the off season. Not sure that deal makes sense for us.

  19. DBO says:

    Looking at pittsburgh, if you deal then one of cole or penner, wouldthis be enough of a return.

    Cole/penner
    for
    Fedotenko and Letang

    Fedotenko gives you a left winger who can pot 20, and Letang helps our back end. Keeps with our theme of still trying for the playoffs this year. not a big fan of Fedotenko, but you get him to fill a spot this year, and you get an offensive defenseman to help on the PP, and who is cheap next year.

  20. HBomb says:

    DBO: Pittsbugh’s not about to trade Letang. They’re certainly not going to move him for a rental.

    You’d be lucky to get him for Penner straight-across.

  21. DBO says:

    HBomb: with gonchar back they have a glut of offensive defenseman, this being the main reason they are trying to move Whitney. i think they would move one of Letang or Goligoski if it got them a top 6 winger. they seem desperate enough to move one of heir young dmen. And Fedotenko has been lacking, which is why you could get him as part of it. maybe throw them one of our dman prospects or the hockey jesus paired with Penner.

  22. oilerdago says:

    I can certainly understand the logic of trading Cole for the best possible return.

    Same with Nilsson.

    Would hate to see Peckham go because while he’s not looked bad the last three games. He’s being sheltered which gives him a chance to have some success (as Huddy’s gotten better about his matchups).

    Have to agree with you LT on Moreau and Staios – MacT’s going to go down with his vets. While I’ll cut Staios some slack, I’m over it with Moreau and his boneheaded play. He’s outlived his usefullness and can’t wait til he comes down to Nashville so I can ask him on the bench before the game how long it will taken him to take a stupid freaking penalty in person.

  23. Lowetide says:

    I read somewhere that Letang was a HS recently.

  24. Lord Bob says:

    This is MacT’s team and this is his Waterloo. So, Moreau and Staios and Roloson and all of the veterans he relies on are staying imo.

    There’s a problem with your metaphor, LT. At Waterloo, Napoleon’s Old Guard famously said when the battle was lost “the Guard dies, it does not surrender!” Whereas MacTavish’s Old Guard is saying “hey, can I help you carry those two points out to your bus?”

  25. pboy says:

    Also, Napoleon had a track of success to fall back on. MacT, not so much…..

  26. pboy says:

    Nice work finding the best picture of Maggie Gyllenhaal ever taken, LT!!

  27. Lowetide says:

    I do think MacT has a track record that tells us he’s a good coach. Seriously. Pre-lockout he was trying to get an undermanned (by $$) into the playoffs and then afterward he made the SCF before Kevin Lowe decided to move the median age back a long way.

    Craig MacTavish made the playoffs 3 times in 5 seasons before the Lowe rebuild, and when he had the horses won playoff series against some famous teams (Detroit, San Jose, Anaheim) before falling in 7 games to Carolina.

    He’ll get another job.

  28. pboy says:

    I don’t doubt he will find employment again as a Head Coach in the NHL. He has been given a long run in Edmonton and by my eye, he is coaching the last 20+ games he will ever have as an Oiler. Unfortunately this season, he has done an incredibly poor job (this has already been argued ad nauseum here and there is no reason to rehash it) and that plus the run in ’06 will be his legacy as he walks out the door. Did he have some success here, unquestionably. Can you argue that he has been part of the problem this year and not the solution? I think you can, at least this year. Coaches with better records than he has put up, have lost their jobs alot quicker.

  29. oilerdago says:

    I would agree with you LT that MacT has a track record and a good reputation around the league.

    He’s made a number of questionable moves this season that have not paid off but I think another GM will cut him some slack and give him another opportunity after he “resigns” in the off-season.

  30. Lowetide says:

    I erased it by accident, but in the 2006 winter (maybe Jan) I wrote a post called “Coach” which basically said end of the line for MacT.

    After that, they went on a beauty run that lasted forever.

    I’m not saying they’ll do it again, but if MacT can guide them into the postseason he’s not going anywhere.

  31. HBomb says:

    I’m not saying they’ll do it again, but if MacT can guide them into the postseason he’s not going anywhere.

    Is getting them into the postseason and losing in four or five to Detroit or San Jose actually good enough to save him?

    I certainly hope it is not. This team is stuck in a rut and needs a fresh voice behind the bench.

  32. B.C.B. says:

    As much as I would want to see Moreau’s and Staios’ contracts off the team next year, I think we need to keep them this year. We need grit to make it to the playoffs and win at least one game: if we traded Moreau for a prospect, we would need to trade another prospect or pick to replace the grit he provides on the wing (this is running in place). Staios has been playing well, in the last couple of games, and I would like to see at some playoff experience on the blueline come post-season (Souray has some, Gilbert none, Grebs- if he is back- none, Strudsie has never play a whole series, Smid has none).

    If the Oilers make the playoffs (and Moreau and Staios do well in helping us), I don’t see the trade value going own in the summer: if some drunk/desperate GM thinks they wold help his team now, why wouldn’t they think they could help his team in the summer?
    If the Oilers do well in the playoffs (and Staios or Moreau do well), their trade value might go up.

    If we are sellers then sell, but if we are in the race I would hope the Brass gets as some players so the citizens of Oiler Diaspora get to watch their team in the playoffs (if only for a few games).

  33. Hemsky is a gangsta says:

    Someone on another site cited Stauffer as saying the Oilers had a deal for a defensemen on the table but won’t pull the trigger until Pisani comes back. Stauffer has a pretty good track record but can anyone else confirm that they heard this? And does the way Erik Cole played last night change anything?

  34. Quinn says:

    I personally hope that Tambellini sees the smarts and numbers Penner brings to his game and resists the ‘fire him’ mentality that MacT seems to have. I have watched very little hockey this year (no cable, three little ones) but what I have seen of Penner shows me he is capable of thinking the game on a Gilbert level. I especially appreciate his backchecking ability, which leads to his good plus/minus. For this current edition of the team, I think that is indicative of a great player. It is not his fault that his coach wants him to be something he is not.

  35. Bruce says:

    “I definitely enjoyed it in Edmonton. But at the same time, they weren’t interested in re-signing me. There wasn’t anything I could do about it, anyway. They were interested in signing Hossa. They told me they didn’t have enough salary-cap room for me. That’s the way it ended.”
    – Curtis Glencross

    Now there was a guy with both Jam and a Clue. His resume even includes “plays well with others”.

    Sigh. We didn’t have room for him cuz Moreau and Pisani were signed for way more bucks for the long-term. Too bad we’re usually paying at least one of those guys to rehab (over 200 games missed between them since the fall of ’06). Hate to say it, but GlenX did more for this team in two months that those two guys combined have contributed the last two seasons.

  36. spOILer says:

    If Cole is being traded for a 1st rounder, I hope to god it’s to Pitt and not Beantown.

    Does Penner for a 1st qualify as 75 cents on the dollar?

    I know we’d want real players coming back, but is this a realistic expectation w.r.t. these two wingers? Buyers aren’t going to want to shake up their own teams unless it’s to dump another under-performer, a la Kovalenko.

    They’re far more likely to send us picks/prospects like the Smytty deal.

    I guess it could be Cole for Whitney (who I’d actually prefer over JBo, given contract and playoff experience), but there’d obviously have to be more there to make that deal happen.

    Which means we’d need a deal with a buyer and at least one other with a seller, if we’re to attend to our problems too.

    Nor can I see us seriously trading both Penner and Cole without a a useful top 6 body with size coming back.

    The suggested deal above for Kovalchuk seems like too much if it’s made in the summer. 1yr rental… for Cogs/Vish/Penner? Granted he’d have value at the 2010 deadline, like Cole does now, if we couldn’t re-up, but still.

    He and Frolov would be the two I’d be running at, but it would be for right now.

    How about Cogs + Penner + prospect and a conditional 2010 1st rounder, if Kovy re-signs?

    Or is the braintrust saving money for Jagr2010?

    Garrioch, who seems to be drunk out of his blistered brain when he writes since he can’t even get player positions right and some of his rumours are downright ludicrous, has Madden as a potential trade bait for NJD.

    I’d be all over that action, if it is indeed true (which I doubt).

    Already having Peca and Malhotra, why did CLB pick Gratton off waivers? Just for size? Is one of the other two available?

    Marchant is also listed as bait in Anaheim. Would Pouliot free him up?

  37. Gord says:

    So long as neither Peckham nor our 1st round pick are traded, I have no problem with the other 4 options – but only if we are not getting a long-term expensive salary back in return.

  38. Traktor says:

    “This is the best team I’ve ever had.” – Craig MacTavish

    “This team can contend for the division.”

    - Craig Self-Inflicted

    Sorry, but just qualifying for the playoffs isn’t enough to keep Craig’s job. Talk about a one hit wonder.

  39. Lowetide says:

    I think the Oilers will get players back but have no idea if it’ll be Whitney types. A Letang type is more along Kevin Lowe’s style.

  40. Traktor says:

    If Penner gets traded he’s going to put up 30+ goals per season. You guys know that right?

  41. mc79hockey says:

    Just like Lupul, eh Traktor?

  42. spOILer says:

    LT,

    PITT can really use some cap space going forward. Trading Whitney brings that space, whereas Letang will be cheap for awhile.

  43. Bruce says:

    MC: Penner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lupul

  44. Traktor says:

    “Just like Lupul, eh Traktor?”

    I’ve never said that Lupul would explode elsewhere, but I’m certainly not surprised that his stint in Edmonton happened to be his worst production of his career. The same happened to Cole and Pitkanen. That seems to be the undeniable trend right now.

    Penner leds Edmonton in multiple categories, such as Game Winning Goals, but the coach doesn’t appreciate him. He led our team in goals last year and he’s tied for 2nd among forwards this year. He scored 29 in his rookie season and under a competent coach and I no doubts that he will crack 30 if Edmonton is stupid enough to trade him.

  45. Traktor says:

    Lupul has 17 goals this year and scored 20 last year in 56 games.

    Is he really that bad?

  46. Coach pb9617 says:

    I think the Oilers will get players back but have no idea if it’ll be Whitney types. A Letang type is more along Kevin Lowe’s style.

    The Pens need cap space desperately going forward. They won’t trade Letang, they’ll move Whitney.

    Goligoski will go if Whitney doesn’t.

  47. Ribs says:

    I read somewhere that Letang was a HS recently.

    Yep. Scratched for the last two games. I don’t really understand the love for the guy. He’s very up and down and is 2 inches away from being MA Bergeron.

  48. Lowetide says:

    Well MA Bergeron is a useful player.

  49. danny says:

    Lupul compared to PHI forwards with a minimum 20 games played (5 on 5).

    Qualcomp: 7th (of 12 eligible players)
    Qualteam: 5th
    EV+: 6th (+31)
    EV-: 10th (-35)
    GF/60: 5th (2.82)
    GA/60: 11th (3.18)

    Lupul has been a healthy scratch a few times this season. The numbers support that.

    I don’t care if he scores 65 goals, if hes giving up 70 while hes doing it, then its pretty pointless.

  50. Coach pb9617 says:

    Yep. Scratched for the last two games. I don’t really understand the love for the guy. He’s very up and down and is 2 inches away from being MA Bergeron.

    He’s 21 and already playing lots of minutes and tough minutes. He can carry the puck, pass and shoot very well already. He’s going to be quite good.

  51. Ribs says:

    Well MA Bergeron is a useful player.

    Just not useful to us.

    Letang just seems like too big of a risk to me. If Grebeshkov was a goat of a player when we got him, I can’t imagine how much grief Letang would receive.

  52. DBO says:

    I agree Letang could be a bust, but like LT said he’s the kind of player that KLowe would look for. That’s why i suggested the penner for Letang and Fedotenko. Fedotenko is a one year player that brings a similar skill set to Penner (albeit less skilled) and the biggest point being MacT does not hate him. letang becomes a 6th defenseman and 2nd PP guy down the stretch for us, and also gives us options in the summer as to whether we choose to pay for grebeshkov, or package him for a top flight winger.

    So we deal Cole for Ruutu
    and
    Penner for Letang and Fedotenko.

    We still need a checking center, but that can be had for pouliot or prospects. we don’t mortgage our future for a run this year, and actually get 2 players that fit our salary and youth in Ruutu and Letang. We free up $4 mill next year to help towards a forward or to re sign grebeshkov.

  53. B.C.B. says:

    So we deal Cole for Ruutu
    and
    Penner for Letang and Fedotenko.
    and
    pick/prospect for Wes Walz

    This is not a bad idea DBO, is Fedotenko in Penner’s spot, and Ruutu in Cole’s spot? I would like the idea of up grading on of those lines, and this trade seems to me as being a treadmill (running in a spot), where does this get us this year? It seems more like a trade for the future. If it is why now?

  54. hunter1909 says:

    The only player I’d worry about losing is Peckham.

    Oilers pansy team needs every hard case it can lay its lily livered hands on now and in future. Trading Peckham stinks.

    Moreau stays. MacT wouldn’t agree to it, in his final 23+ games. Sorry guys, we’re stuck with this joke of a “Captain” for the duration, until the MacT Operetta draws to it’s unlamented end.

    Ruutu sounds like a good fit. Usually injured, Oilers could really hype Ruutu by showing highlights of that tournament he was good in, a few years ago.

    I thought the team played great last night, btw. I stand by my 7th/8th original prediction, especially since they’re going for broke this season so, as well as other reasons, MacT can look good when he replaces Tom Renney over at MSG.

    PS: How any Oiler fan can defend M.A. Bergeron after the game 1 finals takeout just goes beyond the limits of my imagination.

  55. DBO says:

    BCB: It is more for the future. i think Ruutu is equal to Cole, with Fedotenko being less then Penner. What it gives us long term is we are out from underneath Penner’s deal, we add a young cheap offensive defenseman who allows us to move one of our top 4. Moving one of the top 4 dmen is necessary if we want to either sign or deal for a top line winger. Hossa looks like he may re sign in detroit, but i would assume KLowe’s wish list for next year would look like:

    Hossa – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Nilsson – Gagner – Ruutu
    Moreau – Cogliano – Pisani
    Brule – Brodziak – Stortini
    Reddox

    Souray – Gilbert
    Vish – Smid
    Letang – Staios
    Peckham

    Rollie
    JDD

    We could fit those deals under our cap since we should be able to get Rollie for $ 2mill, Smid for $1.5 mill, ruutu for $3 mill, and Hossa for $7.5 mill. We lose $10 mill by dealing Cole, Penner and the savings from rollie’s deal. We spend the $10 mill on raises for brodziak, Ruutu, Smid and the new deal for Hossa.

  56. reijo29 says:

    Guys, Pittsburgh is 100% for sure not going to take on Penner's contract unless we are taking back similar if not more money. Focus on Whitney in a deal not Letang or Goligoski and I'm pretty sure the last thing we need is another D man making 4+ million a year on a long term deal.
    Cole to Pittsburgh, maybe.
    Penner if dealt will be going for someone making similar dough.
    LT – I agree that none of the super vets are likely going anywhere.
    More I look at it I think the off season is again where we will see the Oil making deals, Lowe seems to like making deals right around July 1 (FA Period beginning). Especially if we may be able to sign Bouwmeester/Hossa & potentially have Jagr coming as well.

    At deadline I think Cole goes and maybe, Poo and Schremp. That's probably it.

    Would love Kovalchuk to be on 1st line with Horc & Hemmer.
    As said by others above maybe that's how you off load Penner and his salary.
    Penner, Nilsson, a D man, Schremp & Conditional Pick 1st Rd Pick (if Kovie re-signs) maybe nets Kovalchuk plus a 4-5 D man.
    I would love to add Kari Lehtonen to the trade making it a MEGA MEGA deal. Guessing that's a little too crazy though.

  57. Lowetide says:

    Schremp’s value cannot be high at this point in time. Better to wait until he has increased his value.

  58. DBO says:

    reijo: the salary thing does make sense. Next year malkin and Staal’s deal end up on the books, and they have a lot tied up in their top 6 players. So if that’s the case then you could deal Cole for Fedotenko and Letang. i still think they try and move penner to free up money for next year. Getting Letang helps you move Grebeshkov with Penner, picks and prospects for a guy like Kovalchuk if we can’t lure Hossa west.

  59. Coach pb9617 says:

    DBO – the Pens aren’t trading Letang unless they are getting a young goal scoring winger on the cheap AND they can move Whitney.

    They don’t have the room to keep Whitney, Orpik, Gonchar, Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal and have any semblance of a wing. There is no reason to move Letang and Goligoski, who are essentially baby Whitney, but keep the big contract that they can’t afford.

    IF, however, they are going to move one of Goligoski and Letang, it’s going to be Goligoski, as the organization is enamored with Letang.

  60. Bruce says:

    The only guy of interest to Pittsburgh is Cole. Taking on salary like Penner, Moreau or Staios is a non-starter.

    Same is probably true with many if not most teams around the league just now. Trade deadline is apt to be a little muted w.r.t. any kind of players under long-term commitments. Those “assets” look very much like “liabilities” at this point. Whereas an expiring contract like Cole for the stretch run will be enticing.

    We could probably get a guy with a long-term deal “on the cheap” if we didn’t already have a couple too many on the payroll already. Staying under the cap for ’10-11 already looks hugely problematic.

  61. Coach pb9617 says:

    Rumored destinations for Ryan Whitney so far:

    to Toronto for Antropov and a pick

    to Tampa for St. Louis

    to Edmonton for Cole and a pick

    to Florida with Goligoski and picks for Bouwmeester and Zednik

  62. Coach pb9617 says:

    The only player with as many trade rumors is Cole himself.

  63. 99thoilerfan says:

    We kick it around, talk about to death, but I think the Oil will do nothing. OK, Maybe Cole will move.

    I just do not see a team out there that would want our players ( and their contracts ) We don’t, why would they ?

    If they get in, with a 1st round defeat, Klowe can say the team is on the upswing.
    If not,Tambo can say “he was still considering our assets”

    DRAFT DAY WE STRIKE !

  64. rickibear says:

    Getting Letang helps you move Grebeshkov with Penner

    Management saying Grebs was dominante before his injury. They believe he still has another level.

    24yrs old and described like that. Plus at the time he was one of 9 dmen achieving first pairing numbers at EV production, PP production, and GA.The other nine:
    Blake
    Boyle
    Keith
    Campbell
    Lidstrom
    Rafalski
    Markov
    Green

    Your (well I wont say) if you think that Letang can even be considered in that company or let Grebs get away from your team. That begs a 6 yr contract at 4M. Dump one of the big salaries Souray/Vish before him.

    Gilbert, Grebs, Smid is the base for a Top 4 D package @ 10M for the next 5 Years.

  65. reijo29 says:

    rickibear – I agree 100% both on your assessment and on management's acknowledgment of Grebs and his future with the team.

    Souray OR Viz will need to be traded in offseason. I don't want either to go but they both make too much money, are signed for too long relative to their age and at end of year both will be coming off really good years (Trade at Peak). I would prefer Souray as he is Captain material, our toughest player, w have no one else with a similar skill set & he is the only FA that willing came to E-town since the new CBA.

    Viz, Cogs or Gags (likely Cogs) may be able to fetch the 1st line C or LW that we desperately need and probably won't be able to get as a FA.

  66. B.C.B. says:

    reijo29: I would hope that Visnovsky and Cogs would be able to get more then a first line player in return, or that player better be named Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin. Seriously both of those guys (long term) for one year of Kovalchuk would be stupid . . . better to package them up separately.

  67. Dennis says:

    There is a way you can both buy and sell but Lowe has enough trouble addressing a weakness head-on, let alone going at it from the prespective of making what look like lateral moves but wind up actually being an improvement.

    It’s not my money so I won’t tell Katz how to spend it but this team will never be anything to fear until we find someone who clicks with 89. So, with the rumor being that the only thing the Avs want for 94 is that you take on his contract, I’d like to see him here while we stash guys like 18 and 24, and perhaps 34, in the minors,

    And when the time comes that 94 isn’t worth the money, you stash him too.

  68. Lowetide says:

    My guess is there’s a zamboni in front of Dennis’ driveway by morning.

  69. Coach pb9617 says:

    It’s not my money so I won’t tell Katz how to spend it but this team will never be anything to fear until we find someone who clicks with 89. So, with the rumor being that the only thing the Avs want for 94 is that you take on his contract, I’d like to see him here while we stash guys like 18 and 24, and perhaps 34, in the minors,

    I’m so confused now.

  70. PunjabiOil says:

    Apparently Steve Staios did not show up at the team autograph session today at West Edmonton Mall today.

    That tells me he’s going to be moved momentarily [PJO(4)]

  71. HBomb says:

    PJO: I read today’s paper, and apparently Staios played last night with the flu. So that likely explains his no-show at WEM today.

    I wish it was because he was about to be traded though….

    On an unrelated topic, we may need to add the Sabres to the list of teams that are “sellers” at the deadline.

  72. Bob Arctor says:

    PunjabiEklund – Staios had personal matters earlier in the season and left the team for a period. Maybe missing the autograph session is an extension of whatever the problem was.

  73. DBO says:

    Since we don’t need Whitney, i’d take Ruutu form carolina for Cole. i doubt they do it (from carolina) since ruutu has been one of their most consistent guys all year and leads them in hits. I’d like him on our team. And while he has been injury prone early in his career, the last few years he’s played at least 70 games. on this team he’d be at the top of games played per year!

    As for Grebeshkov. i’d deal him before the other top 3. I still think he rode a lot of Vishnovski in order to do what he did numbers wise. I’d take a steadier gilbert over Grebeshkov. Especially since I doubt anyone takes Vishnovski’s contract, and we won’t move Souray (at least i hope they don’t). we can’t have $19 million in 4 dmen, not when we have bloated 3rd line contracts on the books. We need cap flexibility in order to afford a top flight player.

    Can you move an injured player? move coglinao, grebeshkov, 1st round pick and a prospect or two for Kovalchuk and Reasoner. Solves our two biggest problems today, and gives us 1.3 years to do what we can to resign Kovalchuk.

  74. reijo29 says:

    B.C.B. –
    I think in a trade that Viz won't have as much value as he did last year when we acquired him.
    5 reasons for this:
    1.) He'll be coming off a season ending injury.
    2.) He will be 1 year older (33 at start of next season).
    3.) He makes 21 million over next 4 years and he is a 5.6 million cap hit.
    4.) Oilers potential cap issues/2 RFA D men
    5.) Economic conditons in the league (Cap going down sooner then later).

    I agree Cogliano has a great deal of value and I hope he accepts a move to the wing and we can keep him. However, as things stand today I don't think we can trade him straight up for the kind of player we need (Legit 1st Line C or LW).

    I do think that these 2 guys together could result in us bringing back a Top 30 NHL Forward to play with Hemmer.
    If it's Kovalchuk then we probably only make the deal if we can sign him long term. I agree it's too much to give up for 1 yr of Ilya.

    Two other thoughts:

    I can see Staios maybe being stashed in the A in the last year of his deal. I can't see it ever happening to Moreau (Would they do that to the Captain?) or Pisani (Would they do that to a local boy made good?) Do you really think Katz has that big of a desire to through money away?

    I do think we (Lowe & Tambo) could be buyers & sellers if selling means trading only Cole (and non roster players).

  75. Jon says:

    I have no idea what will happen because Lowe always seems to be throwing curveballs at the fanbase…both good and bad.

    In a perfect scenario here would be my plan of action

    1st/ trade Eric Cole+ for Higgens. Montreal needs some grit and allegedly he is one of the party boys that needs to be moved. He has three 20 goal seasons and could look good on our second line.

    2nd/ trade Schremp and Brule+ for a d-man…my vote is Morris. Those two prospects are not going to play for the franchise and the fanbase needs to turn the page. We get a rental to replace Visnovsky until he is healthy next season.

    I would go into the playoffs with this line up

    Penner Horcoff Hemsky
    Nillson Higgens Gagner
    Moreau Cogs Pisani
    Reddox Brodz Poo

    Souray Morris
    Gilbert Grebs
    Smid Staios

    In the summer we resign Rollie for cheap and sign Alex Auld for cheap and waive JDD

  76. reijo29 says:

    DBO – I think you can move an injured player as long as it is disclosed to all parties and the player would still have to take a physical.
    I would do that trade in a heartbeat, the main flaw I see is that Kovalchuk I believe is a 5.4 million dollar cap hit next year (7.5 actual dollars) and we would have to off load more then Cole to get his number under the cap next year which is why I think Viz in off season would make more sense for the Oil.
    However, if we trade Cole (Deadline) & Penner (Off Season) then it would work dollars wise for next year.

  77. HBomb says:

    re: Pisani. Unlike Moreau, if he’s healthy, he actually comes close to earning his salary, IMO.

    He’s only got one year left on his deal, at the end of which, I hope he decides to sign a long-term Oiler-friendly deal at somewhere between 1.5-2 million cap hit over a 3-year period.

    Solid player, and if we’re going to have one “expensive” bottom sixer, he should be it. Not Captain Stupidity….

  78. Lowetide says:

    Why does Schremp always make it into these conversations? Do NHL teams often acquire players like Schremp at the deadline?

    I imagine he could be included in a three-for-one type “Robert Nilsson plus plus” for a quality NHLer, but on his own?

    Don’t think so.

  79. reijo29 says:

    Jon – We won’t be waiving JDD in the off season unless Dubnyk makes team and we sign/trade for a UFA goalie.

    Brule? Why would we trade him for a UFA? Why do you think we need to turn the page on him? He’s looked pretty good in at least half his games with big club and other the Poltuny he leads Springfield in goals per game and on opening day next season he’s still only 22 yrs. old.

    I would trade Schremp for a rental not Brule. No way.

  80. HBomb says:

    Lowetide: I think if the Hockey Jesus goes, it will be this sort of trade.

    Edmonton sends a 3rd rounder PLUS Robbie Schremp to Atlanta for Marty Reasoner.

    The prospect is a throw in on a deal where the primary asset is a draft pick. That says it all about where Schremp’s value is at right now.

  81. Black Dog says:

    If Lowe was worth anything he’d call up Ken Holland and convince him to trade rosters.

    That trade I could get behind.

  82. hunter1909 says:

    Here’s a question for the board:

    Oilers seemingly are in the never ending trouble to play a legitimate first line center, or so goes one school of thought.

    Who in your opinion is the Oiler’s last legitimate first line center? Is it:

    A- Mark Messier
    B- Shawn Horcoff
    C- Petr Nedved
    D- Mike Comrie

    I’ll count every vote.

  83. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    hunter1909 said…
    Here’s a question for the board:

    Oilers seemingly are in the never ending trouble to play a legitimate first line center, or so goes one school of thought.

    Who in your opinion is the Oiler’s last legitimate first line center? Is it:

    A- Mark Messier
    B- Shawn Horcoff
    C- Petr Nedved
    D- Mike Comrie

    E- Doug Weight

  84. Lowetide says:

    Here’s a question for the board: If you don’t think Shawn Horcoff is a #1 center, when did the bullet hit and how deep did it go?

  85. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    ” Jon said…
    I have no idea what will happen because Lowe always seems to be throwing curveballs at the fanbase…both good and bad.

    2nd/ trade Schremp and Brule+ for a d-man…my vote is Morris. Those two prospects are not going to play for the franchise and the fanbase needs to turn the page. We get a rental to replace Visnovsky until he is healthy next season.”

    Jon: You really need to assess what the other side has before proposing trades like this.

    Shremp and Brule would both have a tough time making the San Antonio roster never mind the Coyotes.

    The Coyotes have so many young prospects ranked above those two it would use up LT’s bandwidth for a week to list them all.

  86. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Lowetide said…
    Here’s a question for the board: If you don’t think Shawn Horcoff is a #1 center, when did the bullet hit and how deep did it go?

    The answer is obviously the grassy knoll.

    What do I win?

  87. DBO says:

    I think LT or someone else did a post a few weeks back about the Oilers cap situation next year. Not sure of the numbers but i seem to remember that with modest raises to Smid and brodziak, along with horcoff’s $1.9 mill increase and the projected $2 mill increase for greb, that we would be right near the cap anyways. if Rollie takes $2 million, and we trade/do not resign cole then we are right against it. That’s what really hurts. We need to move a dman next year and i think short of moving Souray (which i don’t want to do) grebeshkov might fetch us the best reurn (in a package). the other issue being in 2 years we have to pay Gagner and Cogliano, and with our current team we can’t afford both of them.

    Personally i think you move Cole for picks and Seidenberg (has some offense, is a UFA and actually has a lot of hits), move Cogliano and grebeshkov (with picks and prospects) for Kovalchuk and Reasoner. And move Pouliot and picks for a UFA vet dman like Devries and make a run (albeit a short one). KLowe will give MacT every chance, and this might be the best way.

    Kovalchuk – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Penner – Gagner – Nilsson
    Moreau – Reasoner – Pisani
    Reddox – Brodziak – Stortini

    Souray – Gilbert
    Smid – Devries
    Staios – Seidenberg

  88. quain says:

    Here’s a question: how do we offer Souray a contract that was probably the clear winner in terms of years and dollars… and still give him a NTC?

  89. Coach pb9617 says:

    Here’s a question for the board: If you don’t think Shawn Horcoff is a #1 center, when did the bullet hit and how deep did it go?

    After watching the last month of play, the list of centers I’d rather have than Horcoff is down to the number of fingers on this guy’s hand.

  90. Coach pb9617 says:

    We need to move a dman next year

    Or bury Staios and Moreau.

    2.7 million (after baseline replacements) free and clear looks really good.

  91. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Coach pb9617 said…
    Here’s a question for the board: If you don’t think Shawn Horcoff is a #1 center, when did the bullet hit and how deep did it go?

    After watching the last month of play, the list of centers I’d rather have than Horcoff is down to the number of fingers on this guy’s hand.

    The picture you linked to doesn’t actually reveal any fingers but I’m guessing he has about 20?

  92. Dennis says:

    HB: No question I’d value 34 over 18 but I’d also shelve the whole fucking lot of them in order to build a PVP top six that included 94.

    Then we could just play kids, vets and re-threads in our bottom six.

    The Cole/Ruutu trade would mean one of a few things; and yes I talked about this before.

    - it means that 27′s the guy for 89′s line and Ruutu’s playing PVP
    - it means we build a checking line around Ruutu in the LW role playing with 13-34 much the same way 18 Used to be able to roll.

    The whole talking about getting someone to play with 83 totally misses the point. He has Two guys he can play with and they come in at a goal a night and they’re plus players. But what we really need is someone for Gagner.

  93. Lowetide says:

    Coach: I’d say that’s about right lately. :-)

  94. dstaples says:

    Not sure you can stash an over-35 guy in the AHL and have his salary come off the books. . . Perhaps a cap expert in this group would know the answer.

    The most attractive Oiler right now is Roli, with his expiring deal, for a team that needs a goalie and also needs cap space. He’s been great, is playoff tested, and won’t kill your cap next year. High value, but, of course, that means writing off this season.

    As LT has suggested, that’s not going to happen.

  95. godot10 says:

    1) Souray only has one more year left on his no movement clause, I believe.

    2) Contracts can only be buried during the season. Not during the off-season. In the off-season, one can buy out contracts. Burying a contract in the minors does not give you cap space to sign someone in the off season.

    3) If you bury too many players in the minors, nobody good will sign with you.

    4) There is no need to trade any of the top 4D next year. 4 is NOT too many. The cap is NOT an issue next season, unless they want a new expensive forward.

  96. HBomb says:

    Shawn Horcoff: admittedly having a below-average offensive year, the guy is still tied for 29th in scoring among NHL centers.

    Meanwhile, he’s leading his team in plus/minus while playing monster minutes, both in difficulty and quantity, thanks to being the ONLY center his coach seems to trust (that’s a whole other discussion).

    If that combination of attributes doesn’t equal first line center, I honestly don’t know what he has to do to qualify.

  97. B.C.B. says:

    Quain: Souray’s contract was expensive but structured in the right way: 6.25 mil and a NTC (07-08), 6.25 mil and a NTC (08-09). 5.5 mil and a NTC (09-10), 4.5 mil (10-11), and 4.5 mil (11-12). In the last two years of the deal, he has a lower salary and no NTC, so it is easier to trade him, if they wish (not super easy, but easier). Souray still gets paid and some semblance of security for at least the first three years. I don’t know if he’d waive it unless he really like the place he was going.

  98. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach: I’d say that’s about right lately. :-)

    He wasn’t just whistlin’ Dixie last year either.

    Next year isn’t the concern if you can jettison THE CAPTAIN and creaky old Staios.

    It’s the year after that you must deal Souray or Vishnovsky and hope that Wild/Chorney/Petry can start to play some minutes.

    Next year’s rose-colored view:

    # Player Pos Age Cap
    Defencemen 23.061 «
    10 Horcoff, Shawn C 29 5.5
    27 Penner, Dustin C 25 4.25
    83 Hemsky, Ales R 24 4.1
    34 Pisani, Fernando R 31 2.5
    12 Nilsson, Robert C 23 1.833
    13 Cogliano, Andrew C 21 1.133
    89 Gagner, Sam C 18 1.1
    51 Brodziak, Kyle C 24 0.9
    46 Stortini, Zach R 22 0.7
    33 MacIntyre, Steve L 27 0.537
    85 Reddox, Liam L 22 0.508
    Walz, Wes R ?? ???
    SNIPER! ? ?? ???

    Defencemen 20.2 «
    71 Visnovsky, Lubomir D 31 5.6
    44 Souray, Sheldon D 31 5.4
    77 Gilbert, Tom D 25 4
    37 Grebeshkov, Denis D 24 3.5
    5 Smid, Ladislav D 22 1.1
    49 Peckham, Theo D 20 0.6
    Hedja, Jan D ?? ???

    Goaltenders 3.375 «
    35 Roloson, Dwayne G 38 2.75
    38 Drouin-Deslauriers, Jeff G 24 0.625

    -
    Total Cap Hit 46.636

    Penner | Horcoff | Hemsky | 13.85
    SNIPER | Gagner | Nilsson | 2.933
    Cogliano | Walz’ | Pisani | 3.633
    Reddox | Brodziak | Stortini | 2.108

    MacIntyre | 0.537

    Souray | Gilbert | 9.4
    Vishnovsky | Grebeshkov | 9.1
    Smid | Peckham | 1.7

    Hedja’ | ???

    You’ve got about $7 million for SNIPER, Walz and Hedja and only Walz, Hedja and Pisani’s contracts would be expiring the following year and you’ve got to pay for the kids. That’s when you deal the five-and-a-half million from Souray and Vishnovsky, pay the kids and hope.

  99. HBomb says:

    Lowetide: I did a run-through before, but there’s a tier of 18 guys that I’d consider lead-pipe cinch 1st line centers (funny how several teams have two of them). I’ll have to run through that exercise again and come up with the names.

    After that though, there’s a second tier from 19-36 that Horcoff is most certainly in.

  100. dstaples says:

    Grebs is an RFA with limited options, now that the KHL has cut salaries 30 per cent, thus voiding every darn contract in Russia.

    Where is he going to go?

    I guess Burke might finally exact his revenge and sign Grebs to an offer sheet. . . .

    But Grebs can likely be signed for cheap, though he won’t go long-term on that.

    My hope is that Grebs is signed here. As much as people say that Visnovsky was pulling him up, I’ve seen zero evidence of that, not with my eyes, not in the numbers.

  101. Dennis says:

    - pretty sure you can stash a guy at any age just as long as he that contract was signed Before he turned 35.

    Is that true?

    - contracts voided in Russia, eh? Hello Mudder, Hello Fadder, how long will it be….before we see jagr!:)

  102. dstaples says:

    Dennis, I know Smyth is having a good year. But do you really want to tie up that kind of money in him over the next three years?

    I’d much rather see a bold move for a younger player, a Bouwmeester, a Kovalchuk.

    If Katz wants to use his money why not pay $10 million for Kovalchuk.

    Hey, it happened in the past. I don’t believe purchases are illegal.

    So that’s how the Oil can do this, clear cap room any which way you can, then pay the teams losing tens of millions for their young stars.

    As J.R. Foley used to say, “Money talks, Mr. Whelan.”

  103. HBomb says:

    I guess Burke might finally exact his revenge and sign Grebs to an offer sheet….

    If this happens and it’s in a salary range giving the Oilers a 1st round draft choice, let him go. Odds are the Leafs pick in 2010 is going to be a top 12 draft, if the fire sale happens between now and the deadline as hyped.

  104. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    HBomb said…
    Shawn Horcoff: admittedly having a below-average offensive year, the guy is still tied for 29th in scoring among NHL centers.

    Meanwhile, he’s leading his team in plus/minus while playing monster minutes, both in difficulty and quantity, thanks to being the ONLY center his coach seems to trust (that’s a whole other discussion).

    If that combination of attributes doesn’t equal first line center, I honestly don’t know what he has to do to qualify.

    Of course he qualifies if all you look at is leading his own team.

    That’s really not the pertinent question though.

    But you need to assess what his role would be in other circumstances.

    Henrik
    Joe
    Patrick
    Pavel
    The other Henrik
    Ryan
    Mikko
    Jonathan
    Evgeni
    Sidney
    Marc
    Nicklas
    Jeff
    Mike
    David
    Vincent
    Travis
    and even Daymond

    all say hi.

  105. HBomb says:

    I’d much rather see a bold move for a younger player, a Bouwmeester, a Kovalchuk.

    I say be bold and get both.

    Sign Bouwmeester, trade Vis or Souray plus Penner and Cogliano for Kovalchuk, then extend him.

    Bam, you’ve suddenly got a “big three” of Kovalchuk, Hemsky and Bouwmeester to build your team around for the next decade, with a second tier cast of Horcoff, Gagner, Gilbert and one of Souray/Visnovsky.

    Follow the Detroit model. This would be doing it to a “T”.

  106. godot10 says:

    //- pretty sure you can stash a guy at any age just as long as he that contract was signed Before he turned 35.//

    The guy isn’t in the minors in the off season. You can bury the contract during the season, but not during the off season. The off season is the buyout period.

    Avery’s contract takes away $4 million from Dallas’s off-season available cap room.

  107. dstaples says:

    @HBomb. One of the things that makes the Detroit model work is a certain willingness for the biggest names, such as Hossa, Datsyuk and Zetterberg to take a discount to play on a winning team. I wonder if Kovalchuk or Bouwmeester would take such a discount for the love of the Oil?

    Not that I don’t like what you’re saying here.

    And I do believe Dennis is on the right track when he talks about Katz using his money to buy the Oilers an advantage, maybe have some guy go to the minors (though I’m not sure Staios qualifies) or buy him out, or send him to Russia.

    Numerous NHL owners are desperate for cash. This changes everything. We are entering an NHL, and an economy, which is unrecognizable, so all the rules and thinking of the past 20 years in the NHL don’t apply.

    It’s time to think in a different way . . . Buy players in the NHL. Buy players in Russia. It looks like having guys in Europe is a loophole, so do that with a few underperforming players.

    Of course, the CBA still does apply, but money can help get around that, too, I strongly suspect. . . .

    Finally, I don’t know any more about Katz’s wealth than the next guy, but it certainly sounds like he remains strong and secure . . . How willing he is to make the big splash was evident with Hossa . . . So we’ll see. . .

  108. Schitzo says:

    If Katz wants to use his money why not pay $10 million for Kovalchuk.

    Hey, it happened in the past. I don’t believe purchases are illegal.

    They are now. Cash can’t trade hands under the new CBA

  109. HBomb says:

    FCM: Guys I’d clearly take over Horcoff, I called this group the “super 18″ last time I ran through this. Note that I’m not considering salary or the trade logistics of dealing for any of these guys, simply the question of “which would you rather have”.

    SE Division: E. Staal, Lecavalier
    ATL Division: Crosby, Malkin, M. Richards, Carter (new addition to this list)
    NE Division: Spezza, Savard (never thought he’d get this good this late in his career)
    CEN Division: Datsyuk, Zetterberg (when he’s playing C), Toews, Arnott
    PAC Division: Getzlaf, Thornton, Kopitar
    NW Division: Stastny, Sakic (if healthy, big IF, he’d still be a top end guy), Sundin (over a full season, he’s still elite)

    Those are the “big 18″ in my books. Horcoff’s certainly not in that group.

    He is, however, in that next tier with guys like Mikko Koivu, Daymond Langkow, Henrik Sedin, Niklas Backstrom (a guy who probably moves into the super 18 in place of Sakic or Sundin in the next year), Patrick Marleau (when he’s playing center) and a number of other guys.

    I’ll say what I’ve said before: most days, overall, he’s a top 30 center in this league. As such, he’s a first liner. On his worst days, he’s right in the top half-dozen second line guys. Would it be nice to have one of the “super 18″? Damn rights. But those guys are rarely available via trade (14 of the big 18 are still with their original franchise).

  110. HBomb says:

    dstaples: Detroit obviously has some advantages (I may do a project to examine their salary structure and how they’re able to do it), but the principles remain the same beyond the discounts they get (which are unique to that franchise):

    - draft well
    - retain the superstars you’ve drafted
    - don’t overspend on goaltending
    - don’t overspend on depth (i.e. salary is concentrated in top four on D and top eight at F)
    - be proactive in signing players to long term deals at a discount rate (see the current Zetterberg deal)

    Detroit’s the model. It took them 15 years to get to where they are today. I think that’s what Katz wants to build towards long term.

    The first step is to ditch the Moreau and Staios contracts, in my mind – doing such, considering minimum money for bottom of the roster replacements, frees up as much as 3.5 million in cap space.

  111. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    @ H Bomb

    Of course he’s in the top 30 although I would argue Sedin, Backstrom, Marleau, and even Sundin are a tier above.

    My problem is, if your top line centre is 25th to 30th, your best RW is playing solo, your LW isn’t even on the map, you’re second line doesn’t belong in the league and your bottom two lines are a collection of wannabes, what kind of success can you expect?

    When you’re spending so close to the cap, there’s a problem.

  112. Icecastles says:

    Coach pb9617 said…After watching the last month of play, the list of centers I’d rather have than Horcoff is down to the number of fingers on this guy’s hand.

    Are you suggesting we try to get Indigo Montoya on the team? Because I think he’s a winger… for a first line center who is good on special teams we’d be looking more for someone like him. Good captain material too.

  113. HBomb says:

    Of course he’s in the top 30 although I would argue Sedin, Backstrom, Marleau, and even Sundin are a tier above.

    Sundin’s in my super 18. Backstrom’s probably there by this time next year. Marleau’s putting up career numbers this year, but he’s playing LW. And I don’t see Sedin being that huge an upgrade, considering that he’s a package deal with his brother (I’d take the combination of Horcoff/Hemsky over the Sedins, but that’s only because I think Hemsky is the best player out of the group of four).

    My problem is, if your top line centre is 25th to 30th, your best RW is playing solo, your LW isn’t even on the map, you’re second line doesn’t belong in the league and your bottom two lines are a collection of wannabes, what kind of success can you expect?

    The numbers would indicate the Oilers first line hasn’t been a problem this year. IF there is an upgrade to be had there, I think it’s on LW – if Kovalchuk is the LW for Hemsky, I don’t think anyone complains if Horcoff’s the 1C – they would have no basis to do so.

    As for the second line, I actually have liked the combination of Gagner with Nilsson and Cole. They’ll need to find a facsimilie of 26 for next season, but that line is going to get better simply out of Gagner being a year older. I expect a big step forward from 89 in year three.

  114. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    @ hbomb

    As for the second line, I actually have liked the combination of Gagner with Nilsson and Cole. They’ll need to find a facsimilie of 26 for next season, but that line is going to get better simply out of Gagner being a year older. I expect a big step forward from 89 in year three.

    I don’t.

    Gagner is too slow, too small and way too easy to knock off the puck.

    Nilsson…what you see is what you get.

  115. HBomb says:

    Gagner is too slow, too small and way too easy to knock off the puck.

    He’s also 19. If anyone deserves patience, it’s this kid.

    Nilsson? Prototypical 2nd liner out of the Samsonov tree. I’ve liked his game the last month or so, but last night wasn’t his best outing.

    And I feel damn sorry for Andrew Cogliano right about now, having to drag around Moreau every single game. If they’d only put him on LW with Pouliot at center and Pisani on RW when Fernando gets healthy….damn that’d be sweet.

  116. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    HBomb said…
    Gagner is too slow, too small and way too easy to knock off the puck.

    “He’s also 19. If anyone deserves patience, it’s this kid.

    Nilsson? Prototypical 2nd liner out of the Samsonov tree. I’ve liked his game the last month or so, but last night wasn’t his best outing.

    And I feel damn sorry for Andrew Cogliano right about now, having to drag around Moreau every single game. If they’d only put him on LW with Pouliot at center and Pisani on RW when Fernando gets healthy….damn that’d be sweet.”

    Gagner;s upside is likely just like his Dad’s.

    A serviceable 2-3rd liner. Good on him.

    As for Cogs, putting anyone on a line with MAP is damning with faint Parise.

    Pouliot’s time in the NHL has come and gone and Pisani has played how many games in the NHL in the last 3 years?

    It’s time to move on.

  117. HBomb says:


    Gagner;s upside is likely just like his Dad’s.

    A serviceable 2-3rd liner. Good on him.

    I think that’s short-selling the kid, to be honest. He’s ahead of where Hemsky was at the same age, playing a position that demands more on the defensive side. His downside is 2nd liner, IMO.

    As for Cogs, putting anyone on a line with MAP is damning with faint Parise.

    Pouliot’s time in the NHL has come and gone and Pisani has played how many games in the NHL in the last 3 years?

    Well, outstanding punnery, but I’m still of the belief that Parise isn’t even the guy I’d want rather than Pouliot (Getzlaf and Mike Richards are higher on my list than him).

    Pouliot’s still an NHL’er in my books. His upside is 3rd liner though. If he was the Oilers 2002 first rounder, the complaints about his progress to this point would be a lot quieter. They got an NHLer out of the pick. In that sense, they met the minimum standard.

    But to use the baseball analogies we all love – the Oilers scouting staff had three 80 mph meatballs over the middle of the plate. Ample opportunity to hit a home-run, but instead they hit a soft dribbler to 2B that the runner only made it to first on because it was the NY Yankees version of Chuck Knoblauch playing that day. In other words, BARELY a single.

    As for Pisani – the guy had freakin’ Colitis. I’m not about to Moreau-brand the guy for that plus one gruesome ankle injury. When he’s in, the Oilers are a much better team, as he’s one of the better 3rd liners in the league. He is what he is – the one bottom-sixer I’d have no issue keeping around (hoping he takes a bit of a discount on his next contract), because I still think he’ll get results once he gets back.

  118. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    @ Hbomb

    I think that’s short-selling the kid, to be honest. He’s ahead of where Hemsky was at the same age, playing a position that demands more on the defensive side. His downside is 2nd liner, IMO.

    As for Cogs, putting anyone on a line with MAP is damning with faint Parise.

    Pouliot’s time in the NHL has come and gone and Pisani has played how many games in the NHL in the last 3 years?

    Well, outstanding punnery, but I’m still of the belief that Parise isn’t even the guy I’d want rather than Pouliot (Getzlaf and Mike Richards are higher on my list than him).

    Pouliot’s still an NHL’er in my books. His upside is 3rd liner though. If he was the Oilers 2002 first rounder, the complaints about his progress to this point would be a lot quieter. They got an NHLer out of the pick. In that sense, they met the minimum standard.

    But to use the baseball analogies we all love – the Oilers scouting staff had three 80 mph meatballs over the middle of the plate. Ample opportunity to hit a home-run, but instead they hit a soft dribbler to 2B that the runner only made it to first on because it was the NY Yankees version of Chuck Knoblauch playing that day. In other words, BARELY a single.

    As for Pisani – the guy had freakin’ Colitis. I’m not about to Moreau-brand the guy for that plus one gruesome ankle injury. When he’s in, the Oilers are a much better team, as he’s one of the better 3rd liners in the league. He is what he is – the one bottom-sixer I’d have no issue keeping around (hoping he takes a bit of a discount on his next contract), because I still think he’ll get results once he gets back.

    Hbomb.

    What we’re talking about here are spare parts and while they have their value, not one of them (your preference for Pouliot over Parise excepted) mean much.

    There’s just not much there to get excited about.

    There just isn’t.

  119. Coach pb9617 says:

    …this guy. Good captain material too.

    And he’s got edge.

  120. HBomb says:

    FCM: I said I’d rather have Getzlaf or Richards before Parise, not that I`d want Pouliot over Parise. That`s just plain stupid. I was trying to say there were even better guys left on the board (in hindsight) than Parise.

    Pouliot is a spare part, yes. But he’s an NHLer. One of him or Broziak’s going to have to go at some point, and right now, that looks to be MAP.

    And I don’t think Pisani’s a spare part at all. He’s a damn good 3rd liner. Overpaid? Probably. But that’s what scoring 14 goals in a playoff run will do for a guy if he’s weeks away from UFA status and his current team couldn’t convince anyone else to hang around.

  121. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    “Pouliot is a spare part, yes. But he’s an NHLer. One of him or Broziak’s going to have to go at some point, and right now, that looks to be MAP.

    And I don’t think Pisani’s a spare part at all. He’s a damn good 3rd liner. Overpaid? Probably. But that’s what scoring 14 goals in a playoff run will do for a guy if he’s weeks away from UFA status and his current team couldn’t convince anyone else to hang around.”

    Going forward, none of the above will mean much to helping this team win anything.

    Let it go.

  122. Coach pb9617 says:

    Looking over the rosters in the east, there is a pretty good chance that the Oilers and Rangers would be dancing partners should they decide to deal.

    The Rangers have seven RFA forwards, one UFA forward and two UFA defensemen. They can’t score goals to save their own lives right now, and they’ve gone 2-6-2 in their last 10. With edgy forwards like Moreau and east killer Cole, the Oilers might have something to offer the Rangers. The Rags, on the other hand, have nine guys under contract next year at a cap hit of $39ish million. With all of those RFA guys, plus Del Zotto and Sanguinetti, this might be an under the radar match.

    In my castle in the sky world, I’d love to see Cole and Moreau for Dubinsky, but that ain’t happening unless Sather is dealing drunk.

    Cole for Del Zotto+ perhaps?

    Now here's something we can all enjoy, and no, it's not a Hall & Oates video.

    I’ll say it again – that song sucks and makes no sense as a team anthem.

  123. Traktor says:

    If Dan Fritsche is waiver material then Pouliot likely doesn’t have much value. He doesn’t bang and he doesn’t score. The things that had does to well (killing the clock) is a dime a dozen attribute that can easily be found at any time. There’s a million Thor’s and Toby’s and Reddox’s out there. I agree with FCM here – Pouliot is nothing to get excited about. If he was 5’9 and 150 pounds I would actually like him more – at least then he would have an excuse for being a soft little bitch.

    Question:

    Why would a team keep their first round pick when they could send offer sheets out and nab quality players at the perfect age every single year?

    If you’re adding a Dubinsky or Clowe or Krejci or Halak or O’Sullivan to your team every year for 2nd or 1st + 2nd + 3rd round pick isn’t that a smarter plan?

    Penner is probably the worst case scenario in terms of production/dollars but realistically if he’s overpaid it’s only by a million or less.

  124. GorillazXL says:

    LT if you are suggesting Tambilini would trade the Oilers 1st for a player to help this year and rescue MavT’s ass this summer… I give up on being an Oilers fan. The guy said that this was the best crop of talent he’s had to work with and they’re still a fringe team. Even if they’re in the playoff he should be axed. The Oilers have been in the shit house for the past decade because they fail to turn picks into assets or atleast tradable parts. A guy like Schremp and Nilsson are perfect for developing inflated numbers and then trading them.

    GXL

  125. Traktor says:

    I don’t think Pisani is overpaid at all. He’s one of the best 3rd line wingers in the game and any line that he plays on has a pretty good chance of being our best line any given night. The guy makes people around him better like 1st liners do. He’s worth every dime.

    Moreau on the other hand is one of the stupidest players I’ve ever seen in my life.

  126. Traktor says:

    Coach:

    I think Cole would fit perfectly in NY but they have no cap space.

    It would have to be a 3 way trade with Gomez or Drury going to Columbus.

  127. Coach pb9617 says:

    By the way LT, your cover model today is not a good choice.

    She’s looks like a man, man.

    Classic sailor girl pinup was the way to go here. And not just because that’s the best naughty girl halloween costume either.

  128. HBomb says:

    FCM: Having Pisani back will help this team win hockey games, this year and next. This should be obvious.

  129. Coach pb9617 says:

    If you’re adding a Dubinsky or Clowe or Krejci or Halak or O’Sullivan to your team every year for 2nd or 1st + 2nd + 3rd round pick isn’t that a smarter plan?

    The one and maybe only thing we agree on. Opponents to this thought process say it eliminates trading partners. I’m a proponent of only using it when you can do the dual offer sheet scenario, so it’s not going to happen that often to eliminate all trading partners. Besides that, the player has to accept first, so it will happen less often. Even if it initially eliminates trading partners, eventually, you’re going to shake the tree enough that others start doing it too and when it’s commonplace, trading partners aren’t a concern.

    I don’t think Pisani is overpaid at all. He’s one of the best 3rd line wingers in the game and any line that he plays on has a pretty good chance of being our best line any given night. The guy makes people around him better like 1st liners do. He’s worth every dime.

    Moreau on the other hand is one of the stupidest players I’ve ever seen in my life.

    We now agree on three things.

    I think Cole would fit perfectly in NY but they have no cap space.

    The rumors have Rozsival going to Dallas to free up cap room to add a forward. If that happens, I would think that one of Cole or Tkachuk are a virtual certainty in New York.

  130. HBomb says:


    Why would a team keep their first round pick when they could send offer sheets out and nab quality players at the perfect age every single year?

    Great idea in theory, but more often than not, RFA offer sheets get matched based on similar logic – overpay the player a bit now, or lose him and wait 3-4 seasons for the return to show up, assuming your player procurement guys make the right draft choice.

    I don’t think Pisani is overpaid at all. He’s one of the best 3rd line wingers in the game and any line that he plays on has a pretty good chance of being our best line any given night. The guy makes people around him better like 1st liners do. He’s worth every dime.

    Moreau on the other hand is one of the stupidest players I’ve ever seen in my life.

    Quoted for truth. My belief is you sink most of your cap into eight forwards, four defensemen, plus a starting goalie.

    Your forwards consist of your top six guys, the third line center, plus one other guy. Pisani is that other guy. And I think he’s the type of guy who will realize his good fortune and will take a little less than his current salary on his next deal to stick around his hometown. Good on him if and when he does.

  131. Coach pb9617 says:

    There are a couple of duos that are up for RFA that I would do the dual offer sheets on:

    Kessel and Krejci
    Dubinsky and Zherdev
    Versteeg, Bolland, Wisniewski, Barker
    Stafford and Sekera – the Sabres would go apoplectic
    Morrison and Jurcina

    There is more than one player in there that I would sacrifice trading partners for. Target them both and hope to land one. If you land them both, all the better.

  132. Lowetide says:

    Coach: I’ll concede she is unusual looking, but it’s an effective photo for the purpose. I thought of the Candy-O drawing for a post awhile back but a photo is a better plan.

  133. Jfry says:

    rangers let renney go…perhaps we could convince macT to go to NYC next year?

  134. Jfry says:

    ps LT, current pinup girl is plenty fine!

  135. Master Lok says:

    Lowe better not trade away a 1st rounder or Peckham just to add an UFA that *might* help the Oilers get into the first round just to get blitzed by San Jose/Detroit.

    I agree with Loxy and others. Be a dealer – both a buyer and seller be.

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