Get Avery

Sean Avery played his junior hockey in Ontario, for the Owen Sound Platers and the Kingston Frontenacs. He signed at the end of the last century with Detroit Red Wings after passing through a couple of drafts.

Avery was a first class agitator from the get-go, but he also had some ability. Now he wasn’t a Ken Linseman 1st line center-agitator and his pro debut in 2000 didn’t imply NHL greatness. However, he was a useful hockey player and turned himself into a fringe NHLer by the time he landed in Los Angeles.

Where he became a regular and contributed at the NHL level. He was eventually traded to the Rangers before cashing in with a free agent contract courtesy the Dallas Stars. Four years, $15.5M may not seem like a lot of money, but for a role player like Avery it had to represent a very nice career plateau.

Sean Avery has displayed bad judgement in the past but he has also paid in full. And then some.

I’m not going to debate the comments he made that got him suspended because it isn’t what we do here. However, with Avery on waivers today I think we can debate the fact that Edmonton has an option to place a claim.

Sean Avery can play NHL hockey. He is most certainly a better player than the 23rd man on this roster. His salary (as he passes through waivers) is certainly in line with his abilities (or better). I believe he is certainly worth a shot.

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100 Responses to "Get Avery"

  1. Swabbubba says:

    U sure LT. I know the guy can play but he is known to be pretty toxic guy to the rooms he has been in based of the Internet. Plus he would just bad mouth E town anyway as there is no Vogue office.

    Would make the Flames mental though

  2. Scott says:

    I’m happy to make a claim on him and I’m happy not to. If the Oilers recognize that he’s a guy who can play that’s enough for me. This is a situation where you should run the idea past the guys in the room. If they all say no, I think you let him slide and I’m willing to give the Oilers the benefit of the doubt if he’s not wearing on Oildrop tomorrow.

  3. Brett Gee 英 明 says:

    It would be a bold move.

    How does the waiver work with salary? Would we be tied up with his contract?

  4. mc79hockey says:

    I’m not going to debate the comments he made that got him suspended because it isn’t what we do here.

    Are you new to the internet? Wait’ll you meet Dennis!

    There isn’t a chance in hell of this happening, although I’d at least consider it if they could lose Chopper (admittedly, this might not be the time for that).

  5. Matt N says:

    Not a chance that this guy doesn’t implode under the microscope of this hockey team/soap opera city. He would have a microphone in his face everyday. The fans here are not capable of leaving someone alone. This city has a history of getting on the players and Avery with his big rep and big mouth would bring the A-holes out of the woodwork.

    That being said, I would love to have him in our back pockets for a playoff run.

  6. Scarlett says:

    This would be a bold move and I’m on board with it. I don’t think they make it; not Lowe’s style but damn I would love it! He’s paid his debt to society and is a player.

  7. Yeti says:

    If we dumped Pitkanen out of here because he was ‘too quiet’ in the locker room and not a great ‘team fit’ in terms of character, then there is no way in hell they bring in a guy who had every vet on the Stars queuing up to stick knives in his back as he was leaving.

  8. dawgbone says:

    Avery trashed the Canadian media when he didn’t even have to deal with them on a daily basis… how is he going to handle it when he has to do it for 60+games/year?

    My problem with Avery is he lets himself become distracted. He can play hockey, there’s no question about that… the problem is when he gets distracted he gets stupid. It’s like he intentionally pushes the envelope just to prove a point. He gets reckless, takes stupid penalties (we don’t need another guy doing that), and he basically loses any sort of ability to make good decisions on the ice. Not only that, but now he’s got a target on his back, so even when he’s behaving himself, he’ behind the 8ball.

    Has he learned a lesson? You’d like to hope so, but there’s a long list of guys in pro sports who simply don’t learn their lesson and they go to team after team and can’t get back to the level they’ve shown (at least in glimpses) in the past.

    The other issue is the shelf live of an agitator. A lot of these guys come into the league and do all kinds of crap to sucker other guys into penalties… then they get a reputation for it and the roles reverse (unless you play for Vancouver). Tyson Nash went from being one of the best agitators in the game to being completely useless over 1 offseason. Once you start drawing significantly more penalties than you take, the agitator starts to become a problem

  9. Gord says:

    At the re-entry cap hit…Do it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained IMO. I think with this latest round of discipline he will come back with a slightly muted attitude (will still be a gamer though).

    The guy said what he said in the past probably because he loves being the headline, he wouldn’t have to worry about that here.

    I like the idea of polling the lockerroom and/or team captains to gauge the willingness to accept. If it’s there…go for it.

  10. NBOilerFan says:

    IMO, There is no way that the Oilers do this… no way.

    But I think they definitely should be highly considering it. I believe Avery is a heck of a player, shows up each and every game and makes this club better.

    I also think he will come back a different player the nhe was before… because he knows he is on a very short leash with the league.

    At full value, I’d say no way, but at this price…. he is well worth the serious consideration. I hate his off ice antics (and even many on-ice), but this guy can play.

  11. quain says:

    He can play hockey and he served his pennance for calling Cuthbert a puck bunny, but… really? We wwant to acquire Sean Avery to play in Edmonton? Is it because of his well-known love of the Canadian media? Perhaps his attraction to the high fashion industry which is so predominant in Alberta? Or do we just really need someone to make fun of Dustin Penner in the dressing room?

    Zero chance this happens, you don’t trade Raffi Torres away for magic beans just so you can acquire Sean Avery.

  12. Coach pb9617 says:

    His re-entry contract is cheaper than Moreau’s deal, no?

  13. Gord says:

    This is not the Gord who posted just above (check IP addresses if you wish).

    Oiler games are boring; there is no character or personality on the team; there is no desire to win at any cost.

    Poll the dressing room; unless there is a valid reason for rejection, get Avery on the team. He’ll do whatever it takes to get a win.

    As far as the moralistic aspect of Avery’s antics, actions speak louder than words. And we had quite a group of Oilers during the Glory years whose actions were much worse than Avery’s words.

    The Oilers won their Stanley Cups picking up talented players with drug problems or just out of jail (see MacT). Why the change in philosophy?

  14. Coach pb9617 says:

    Zero chance this happens, you don’t trade Raffi Torres away for magic beans just so you can acquire Sean Avery.

    He’s better than Torres and cheaper. It’s trading Torres for Brule and signing a better, cheaper version of Torres. He brings personality problems instead of sinus infections. Go for it.

  15. Icecastles says:

    Four years, $15.5M may not seem like a lot of money

    No, that seems like a hell of a lot of money. I am training to be an architect (not exactly a slouch profession in terms of salary) and I will almost guaranteed never see that kind of money. I know what you’re saying, but I’m just saying.

    Now as to the actual content of your post LT, considering we hate players who take selfish penalties, I’m not so sure that the most selfish player in the league would fit here.

    Bear in mind – the reason he was dumped so acrimoniously isn’t just because he said something crude. It is because he has exhibited overwhelmingly crass, selfish and unsportsmanlike behaviour for as long as he’s been in the league. Stortini is an agitator. Avery is on a whole different level.

    the day we welcome someone who:
    spits gatorade on his opponents,
    slags people with inconceivably crude language after the coach forbade him to talk to the press,
    picks fights with tiny guys then runs from enforcers who would mop the floor with him,
    is hated by his team to the point that they virtually beg management to be rid of him,
    and waves his stick like a complete asshole in front of the opposing goalie, making an utter farce out of himself, his team, the game and the spirit of competition,
    is the day I start cheering for Calgary.

    He does not believe in team, he does not believe in sacrificing for the better of the team, and he doesn’t believe in sportsmanship. Leave that shit in the NBA and the WWE. We don’t need the Oilers name tied to the Dennis Rodman of hockey.

  16. George B says:

    If it is established that Sean Avery is the kind of player this team needs, then go out and find the style of player with less baggage.

    I can at least agree that this team needs to improve it’s 23 man line up, but there have to be better options than this guy.

    I prefer to see guys on our team that aren’t selfish with a penchant to act like an idiot on a more often than not basis.

    Avery will be in the media again for something else, you can bank on it.

  17. godot10 says:

    Avery wants to play in New York. He has made it clear through his agent that he will pout if anyone else claims him.

    Edmonton doesn’t fit Avery’s lifestyle, period. End-of-story.

    Claiming Avery, with the length of his contract, even at half-price, would be a disaster.

    And the Oilers have far too many impressionable youngsters around.

  18. oilerdago says:

    Ditto Icecastles.

    No way, no how do we need a schmuck/distraction like Avery.

  19. LMHF#1 says:

    Even if you think he has a chance of coming back and dropping his idiot ways (I don’t, he’s not as stupid as Steve Downie but he’s pretty stupid), we don’t have a coach strong enough to reign him in.

  20. Doogie2K says:

    No. No, no, a thousand times, no fucking way.

    He’s played for four NHL teams, and worn out his welcome with three of them. I don’t like those odds.

  21. knighttown says:

    By FAR the biggest issue is his interest in playing here. He and Sather are talking like it’s a done deal and if he’s got his heart set on New York then let him go. If he was a UFA at seasons end then I agree with this nothing ventured-nothing gained point of view, but 3 more years? The probability of that contract working out approaches zero.

    I agree with Dennis that Sean Avery did not sabotouge Dallas like everyone, Stars included have said. However, Sean Avery’s 4 million dollar cap hit sitting in the stands may very well cost a contending team their season. If they had added an asset worth 4M instead of Avery, I can prerty much guarantee they’d have clinched a spot in the dance.

    With the Cap going down you cannot take that kind of a risk. 75% of the league has said he doesn’t deserve another shot so what if he blows up again and you’re stuck with 5-10% of your Cap (not sure if the re-entry cost is only for 1 year) tied up with someone suspended?

  22. NBOilerFan says:

    Godot10 said: “Avery wants to play in New York. He has made it clear through his agent that he will pout if anyone else claims him.”

    Do you have a link?

    I don’t disagree with you… just curious to read the article.

  23. Lord Bob says:

    Do we really want Dallas’s sloppy seconds?

    Oh, goddammit, now I’m going to get suspended and have to comment on HFBoards for four months.

    (Incidentally, I would claim Avery. He can play hockey, he was a positive player in New York and Dallas was the only place he was anything like “run out of town”, and he was a scapegoat for a Stars team that had a lot more problems than just him.)

  24. quain says:

    On the plus side, if we do grab him, we don’t have to worry about him calling Theo Peckham any names! Hopefully.

  25. St George says:

    is the day I start cheering for Calgary.

    Really? Whatever Avery has done, he is no Bertuzzi. (That guy should still be in jail, not earning millions of dollars.) I think you need to come up with another team than the Flames if you are feeling puritan.

    Now that I bring up Bertuzzi, it occurs to me he does serve as an example that players can recover from almost anything if they settle down and smarten up.

  26. namflashback says:

    Hey now Lord Bob, stick to head shots and intent to injure and you’ll be okay. None of that “nasty phrase” or we’ll send you for anger management classes.

    The salary price and cap hit are tolerable, but I’d want to insure that he can be sent away again if it doesn’t work out.

  27. Steve says:

    If we dumped Pitkanen out of here because he was ‘too quiet’ in the locker room and not a great ‘team fit’ in terms of character…

    That’s a little revisionist: we dumped Pitkanen because he didn’t want to play for us.

    As for Avery, no thanks. He’s obviously a better hockey player than Steve Downie but, as with Downie, I’d really rather not cheer for him. Who’s next? Todd Bertuzzi? Pol Pot?

  28. Councilman Les Winan says:

    I do wonder about Avery’s state of mind if (when) he gets claimed on re-entry waivers.

    As some suggest here, he might think that he needs to straighten up and fly right, and he could benefit a team.

    However, the other way to think about it is that he could think to himself “No matter what I do, I keep getting chances. I don’t need to change at all.”

    I don’t know which is more likely.

    This is a tough one, because the numbers say he’s a useful player, but there are a lot of intangibles (team chemistry, distractions, etc.) that suggest that he could hurt more than he helps, and there’s no real way to measure that with statistics. So which wins out?

  29. Chris says:

    Maybe we can teach him Finnish and bring in Esa as the assistant Sean Avery coach.

  30. dawgbone says:

    I don’t get how everyone assumes Avery has learned his lesson from all of this.

    There is a long list of pro athletes (including NHL players) who have never learned from their mistakes. Some people just have entitlement issues, and if it’s true that he’s already commenting that it’s New York or bust, that just goes to show that he hasn’t changed a damn thing.

  31. Coach pb9617 says:

    Is this subject an homage to “Get Carter” with Michael Caine?

  32. HBomb says:

    If his contract was up this summer, sure would claim him.

    Since it isn’t…how about Ian Laperriere? I’d take that guy on my team any day of the week.

    I used to regard Steve Ott highly as a “clean agitator”, but not anymore…he’s now in Tootoo/Ruutu/Burrows “gutless puke” territory.

  33. godot10 says:

    All the Avery fans here make me think that all you guys are really gals, who believe that they can change their abusive bad boy! -).

  34. Sean says:

    I agree Ian Laperriere > Avery. But Avery would cost nothing to acquire and might be worth a gamble. He can play and his career is on the line.

    I'm not pro-Avery but its one of those I'd buy as the org trying to address a need.

    Put him on Morreaus line, we could make bets over who takes a penalty quicker… ;)

  35. gary b says:

    buried in the middle of Gregor’s 3rd-quarter grades:

    ****Update on Moreau’s eye. He has a scratched cornea and there is blood behind the eye. The good news is that he is staring to see shadows, so the outlook looks good. His return date is up in the air right now, but most importantly it sounds like he should escape serious injury.

  36. Jonathan Willis says:

    Sorry, LT, but please no. Avery’s results have been incredibly impressive, and the price is right, but no.

    There’s no room on this team for a guy who has used racist taunts on Georges Laraque and Ted Nolan.

    The six-game suspension was bogus, as was a lot of the stuff tossed at Avery this season, but his track record is clear: he’s unprincipled, and without respect for teammates or opponents.

    Pass.

  37. Phil says:

    Going after Avery would be like hiring a hooker. There’s a chance of having a good time, but an equal-to-better chance that you contract something ghastly that lives on in your system for years.

    Why take that risk when you can get the service at home? Other teams HATE Zek, and Peckham is showing some real potential in the agitator category. (That dust up with Lemieux is priceless.)

  38. knighttown says:

    But Avery would cost nothing to acquire and might be worth a gamble

    We need to get rid of this line of thinking. Of course he costs something. He costs 2 million dollars a year, assuming that we get him for the remaining three years at that same discount. In a hard cap world, Cap Space is an asset, just like a draft pick. For some strange reason it hasn’t affected hockey like the other sports but it will soon.

    Just yesterday, the New England Patriots traded Matt Cassell AND Mike Vrabel for a second round draft pick. Cassell was just slapped with the franchise tag and signed a few weeks ago for $14.5 million/year which would probably be market price for a Top 15 NFL quarterback. And Vrabel was the starting linebacker on 3? Superbowl teams.

    It’s the equivalent of Chicago moving Cristobal Huet, a wellpaid but not overpriced backup AND Brian Campbell to Toronto for the 3rd pick in the second round. These trades aren’t here yet but they’re coming…they just have to and maybe as soon as this summer when the Cap actually “caps” something for once.

  39. Jonathan Willis says:

    KT: Vladimir Malakhov and a 1st round draft pick to SJ for Alex Korolyuk.

    Lou Lamoriello’s way ahead of the curve on this one.

  40. Schitzo says:

    The Oilers won their Stanley Cups picking up talented players with drug problems or just out of jail (see MacT). Why the change in philosophy?

    No Glen Sather behind the bench to instill the fear of god and the AHL?

  41. Gord says:

    If we need a LW who is not an agitator; if we need a big body who can score goals.

    Mikhnov scored 8 goals in the final 10 games of the season – plus has a goal in each of the first two playoff games.

    Mikhnov at $1.5 million per season would fit nicely into the new cap world.

  42. Bob Arctor says:

    “To the extent the Player does require Waivers to be Loaned to a
    minor league affiliate, he cannot be Loaned or recalled without
    first clearing regular Waivers, and then cannot be Recalled to the
    NHL parent Club during the same League Year without also
    clearing a new Re-Entry Waiver procedure, pursuant to which the
    Player can be claimed by another NHL Club for fifty (50) percent
    of the contract’s remaining amounts to be paid
    , with the balance to
    be paid by and charged to the waiving NHL Club (both amounts to
    be counted against each Club’s Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary
    and Averaged Club Salary, and counted against the Players’
    Share)”

    From the CBA. His current contract is 3.873 million/yr, he’d cost us 1.9375 million/yr, for the remainder of his contract.

    IceCastles:the day we welcome [Shawn Avery] … is the day I start cheering for Calgary

    So you’d rather cheer for a club that employs Todd Bertuzzi than Shawn Avery?

    I think some of you need to get the fuck off your high horses. The only thing Avery is guilty of, is pissing people off. He seems pretty effective at it considering some of your responses…

  43. Sean says:

    KT: Trade Nilsson and pocket 200k in cap space

  44. devon says:

    i posted thi at ON as well but..
    Avery’s ex agent is a good friend of mine, and through him i’ve hung out with Sean a couple of times. The most recent being when the oilers beat the rangers in a shootout last year. After the game Sean met us at the Suede lounge, had a couple of drinks and chewed fat for awhile. The first thing i noticed was how quiet and articulate he was. He has a lot of knowledge for the game, and his passion for it was obvious. The other thing that blew my mind was watching guy after guy walk up to say hello. I figured with his rep that we should be ready to throwdown at any minute, but that was not the case. He was patient with everybody always smiling, a genuine dude. I bring this all up because said agent has been in contact with him lately about where he will play and if edmonton is an option, he said at this point he has a lot to prove to the hockey world and oilers claimed him it would be just fine with him. As much of a buffoon as he’s been in the past, the oilers need a guy like him. admit it, i’m right.

  45. Bank Shot says:

    Doesn’t the half price deal only work for the season that you claim a player of re-entry waivers?

    For the next three years the Oilers would have yet another bloated contract of Avery at $4 million.

  46. jon k says:

    Devon: Interesting stuff.

    I agree that the Oilers should put in a claim. Avery can play tough minutes and brings a good degree of grit and would further help our club draw penalties.

    2 million per for the remainder of his contract is also a good deal.

  47. Schitzo says:

    For the next three years the Oilers would have yet another bloated contract of Avery at $4 million.

    No, it’s the length of the deal.

  48. Jonathan Willis says:

    As per Jason Gregor, Moreau may very well be back before the year is out, and the Oilers are probably looking to buy.

    So some good news, and some iffy news.

  49. Gord says:

    Bank Shot,

    Less than $2 million per season for the complete contract….

    And I keep thinking Mikhnov on the first line; Avery on the 2nd line.

    Much less expensive than Penner & Cole (at least a $4.5 million saving).

    We get our goal scoring on the 1st line with Mikhnov; we get a protector on the 2nd line for the kids. And we know Avery will stand up for his line mates.

    How in the world could we go wrong?

  50. Jonathan Willis says:

    We get our goal scoring on the 1st line with Mikhnov; we get a protector on the 2nd line for the kids. And we know Avery will stand up for his line mates.

    How in the world could we go wrong?

    Sarcasm is fun.

  51. kris says:

    Two reasons the Oil won’t -and maybe shouldn’t- sign Avery.

    1. If he pisses off the fans and says something stupid, it makes the Oil look bad, and makes average tax paying fans less likely to be willing to pony up the dough for tRexall part deux. That is, the Oil are in an important time, in terms of public relations, and this guy is a public relations ticking time bomb.

    2. The Oil have trouble siggining players because of the weather in and size of Edmonton, the memory of some classless decisions by management, etc. Brining Avery, who alot of NHL guys plainly don’t like, might lower the desirability of playing for Edmonton. I mean the Dallas guys didn’t like Avery, and I bet he’s not too popular with a lot of players. (My guess is this is why other teams won’t touch Avery either, except maybe New York, which is a city presumably everyone wants to play in.

  52. Bank Shot says:

    Ok, he’s cheap. I still don’t want the guy.

    He’s a known racist, and he’s gotten into fights with announcers, coaches, and teammates.

    I couldn’t cheer for him.

  53. HBomb says:

    Off-topic thread hijack of sorts (RE: Hemsky)

    Ales Hemsky, year to date:
    EV +34/-23
    Corsi +64

    Ales Hemsky, prior to and including Feb. 3 game (when Visnovsky went down):

    EV +28/-19
    Corsi +80

    As such, Ales Hemsky since Visnovsky went down for the season:

    EV +6/-4
    Corsi -16

    Hemsky with Visnovsky this season:

    EV +13/-5
    Corsi +71

    Hemsky without Visnovsky this season:

    EV +21/-18
    Corsi +9

    Interesting stuff. Safe to say that 71 makes everyone he plays with, including Ales, a heck of a lot better.

  54. Gord says:

    Jonathan Willis,

    The Oilers brain trust has the flaky idea of signing Jagr – who had 0 goals & 1 assist over the final nine games of the season. Jagr who has 0 goals & 0 assists in 2 playoff games. Jagr is a declining asset that will cost us at least $5 million per season.

    Mikhnov is just hitting his prime; got 8 goals & 3 assists over the final 10 regular season games. And who has 2 goals in 2 playoff games.

    We let Hejda go for nothing; we let GlenX go for nothing; both those players wanted to play in Edmonton – both those players would not have cost a surcharge in salary.

    Now we have the possibility of getting Avery – we could easily sign Mikhnov who wants to play in Edmonton.

    I'm not being sarcastic – I am watching the Oilers blow another great opportunity to get players who will easily outperform their contracts.

  55. Schitzo says:

    Jonathan Willis,

    The Oilers brain trust has the flaky idea of signing Jagr – who had 0 goals & 1 assist over the final nine games of the season. Jagr who has 0 goals & 0 assists in 2 playoff games.

    Jagr who was likely counting the days until he could walk away from the arena where his protege and friend died on the bench. I wouldn’t blame him if he had already mentally checked out.

  56. Jonathan Willis says:

    Gord:

    Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic. Here’s how it could go wrong:

    1. We get the Mikhmov who scored 6 goals and 18 points in 27 AHL games rather than this first line LW you suggest he is.

    2. Sean Avery not only doesn’t stick up for his teammates, but in a desire for vengeance an opposing player throws a dirty and career-damaging hit on Sam Gagner instead. Or, if you’d rather, Sean Avery becomes a sideshow that is distracting for everyone and encourages more problems in the dressing room.

    Are my scenarios really that farfetched?

  57. shepso says:

    Hey LT, Congrats! Your little post about Avery got the Puck Daddy treatment over at Yahoo sports this morning. That’s really freakin fantastic!

    That aside, I have my doubts about Avery’s usefulness, but it would be nice to have a pest again. Sometimes I get nostalgic for Esa…

  58. Steve says:

    We let Hejda go for nothing; we let GlenX go for nothing; both those players wanted to play in Edmonton

    Really? I thought all the evidence we had was that GlenX’s first choice was to play in Calgary, for the team he’d grown up cheering for. As for Hejda, it’s certainly possible that he wanted to play here, but do you have any basis for saying that that’s the case?

    (None of this is to excuse the Oilers for letting either player get away; I’m just not sure history isn’t being rewritten here.)

  59. Jonathan Willis says:

    Scott: Fairly sure Hejda wanted to re-sigh; supposedly he wanted a 1-yr, 1M deal (which Columbus eventually gave him) but the Oilers were busy looking at Dick Tarnstrom.

  60. Schitzo says:

    As for Hejda, it’s certainly possible that he wanted to play here, but do you have any basis for saying that that’s the case?

    It’s definitely been reported that Hejda was told by the oilers to sit by the phone and wait for us to call. Howson snagged him on July 2nd or 3rd after he didn’t hear from us.

  61. Jonathan Willis says:

    Geez, sorry Steve. I have that Lost Scott/Steve syndrome happening.

  62. Coach pb9617 says:

    Backstrom to the Caps is now the latest and hottest rumor.

  63. rickibear says:

    1. We get the Mikhnov who scored 6 goals and 18 points in 27 AHL games rather than this first line LW you suggest he is.

    I would take 6’5″ 220Lbs Mikhnov on second line LW even if he only scores 15G over a 6’2″ 205LBs 4M RW.

    How can he do worse than:
    1. Not outscoring,
    2. Not outchancing,
    3. Not facing tough comp,
    4. Not doing it with bad teamates.

    The Extra 2M could be spent on a real Physical player for the 3rd line.

  64. Ender says:

    Interesting stuff. Safe to say that 71 makes everyone he plays with, including Ales, a heck of a lot better.

    I don’t know how often the two of them were on the ice together, but isn’t it just as easy to say that bumping up the icetime for the other defensemen (since Lubo’s gone) is creating more mistakes all around?

  65. Steve says:

    Fairly sure Hejda wanted to re-sigh; supposedly he wanted a 1-yr, 1M deal (which Columbus eventually gave him) but the Oilers were busy looking at Dick Tarnstrom.

    Thanks; it seems conterintuitive, given how underused he was here, but I’ll take your word for it.

    Geez, sorry Steve. I have that Lost Scott/Steve syndrome happening.

    Think nothing of it, Senator Goldwater.

  66. Kyle says:

    I find him a little pricey, but no question he wouldn’t be the worst player on the roster.

  67. relic says:

    pass on avery

    MacTs head would explode if his top 2 LW were Penner and Mihknov.

  68. rickibear says:

    MacTs head would explode if his top 2 LW were Penner and Mihknov.

    I looked at last years 30-50 club.
    You can assemble a pretty interesting roster with Players who have been on it in the last 2 years.

    Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
    Nilsson-Horcoff-Jagr
    #3LW-Avery-Armstrong

    All outscorers, All face tough comp, and all out chance. The bottom three can be for PK. Cogs for #3LW just misses the 30-50.

    Reddox-Brodz-Pisani

  69. Gord says:

    Looks like I jumped the gun in my Mikhnov update – the game was still on…

    Mikhnov scored twice – now has 3 goals in two playoff games.

  70. knighttown says:

    @JW

    KT: Vladimir Malakhov and a 1st round draft pick to SJ for Alex Korolyuk.

    Lou Lamoriello’s way ahead of the curve on this one.

    Not crucial, but i believe Jim Fahey was involved too, no?

    Anyway, I actually posted this exact trade a few days ago as the only trade in NHL history that involved negative value trade.

    Very simply:

    Negative Value (Malakhov’s salary) + Positive Value (1st rounder) = Net Zero (Jim Fahey and Alex Koryluk).

    The Currency of Sports would be an intriguing topic for a thesis if I was in sports management. Like that Cassell trade. It makes no sense from a fans point of view, but from a GM of the NFL’s take it’s a wash.

    In the NBA, you see some ridiculously one sided looking trades, but obviously there is some asset that equals things out. Let’s look at this one:

    Toronto Raptors acquire Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose AND a 1st round draft pick.

    The 33-year-old swingman has had an extremely productive 2006 for the Raptors. Rose has averaged 17.1 points, on 48.1-percent shooting, since the calendar turned to 2006 over the past 16 games.

    “Jalen will be able to jump right into the rotation,” Head Coach Larry Brown said. “His ability to play three different positions and his strong leadership qualities will prove very beneficial for us.”

    Davis, 6-9, 245-pounds, has averaged 5.0 points, 4.8 rebounds and 20.8 minutes in 36 games, including 31 starts, for the Knicks this season.

    So, the Knicks pickup the FAR better player and a first rounder in a sport in which most first rounders become starters the very next year. This trade looks absolutely insane until you read the quotes form the Raptors GM.

    This trade presents the opportunity for us to acquire $10 million in cap room. Being under the cap gives us flexibility to sign and trade, trade picks for a desired player, make multiple player deals for quality, and broker deals for value.

    I don’t give New Jersey Lou any credit for figuring it out. I think he was painted into a corner and hated doing it.

    This is the timeline of “worst case” player value:

    Pre-Cap:
    Marginal NHL players are worth something. Semenov for a 7th rounder.

    Post-Cap (excepting Malakhov):
    Good NHL players are going through to waivers and getting claimed. Bryzgalav to Coyotes, although I do think that was actually Brian Burke being a good guy and honoring an agreement to give Ilya a chance to start.

    Now:
    Marginal guys like Ossi Vaananen and Glen Metropolit (who are as useful as Semenov was) are picked up on waivers or reentry waivers giving their teams nothing more than cap relief. Teams that overvalue assets like JDD and won’t risk waiving them will have a lot of trouble making moves. Like Kevin Weekes in New Jersey who should, by all rights be the #3. He WILL NOT return anything at the deadline other than cap space but Lou won’t waive him and so Scott Clemenson has to play in Albany.

    Future: Trades like Sean Avery and Matt Niskanen to Toronto for a 6th rounder could be coming soon.

    What I’m suggesting is that some very bright GM, who perhaps has a history with other professional sports leagues, is going to see this trend coming and may win a Stanley Cup because of it. Based on the Oilers loyalty to their players, it won’t be them.

    If the Oilers were to move Staois, Moreau and Pisani PLUS 2nd round picks in 2009 and 2010 for nothing more than late round fodder, could you get behind it?

  71. Ben Carter says:

    I suppose that as the Oilers are no longer the organization they used to be, as you recently posited LT, they might as well bring this clown on board.

    This guy was a jerk long before the Phaneuf / Cuthbert comments. The Red Wings and the Kings both found this out first hand.

  72. Schitzo says:

    I suppose that as the Oilers are no longer the organization they used to be, as you recently posited LT, they might as well bring this clown on board.

    Someone else brought this up previously, but you’re talking about the organization that brought on board guys with drug convictions, the odd manslaughter charge…

  73. Art Vandelay says:

    I would love to see Avery lobbed into the Oilers dressing room.

  74. Dennis says:

    I apologize if this turns out as a double post but I consider his on-ice history plus his contract reasons enough to take a shot on him.

    You’d have to talk to him to see if he’s changed but if you thought he was, then you jump on this 100%.

    then again, perhaps my old baseball background means I don’t put enough stock in intangibles.

  75. Jonathan Willis says:

    Brownlee just posted this over at ON:

    I was in the parking garage at the Staples Center after the on-ice incident with Laraque — while the other newspaper referred to it, I was the only media member actually there.
    When MacTavish, Oiler players and Georges approached Avery, who had George Parros with him, he didn’t try to diffuse the situation, he tried to ignite it.
    He kept saying, “What are you going to do about it, Georges? What are you going to do about it?” He never once said, “I didn’t call you anything, Georges, you’re a liar,” he just kept trying to escalate things. I knew something wasn’t right with this guy. I’ve rarely seen that much hate in somebody’s eyes.

    There are too many stories like that for my taste.

  76. Schitzo says:

    It seems like Avery could be one of two things – either he’s a bright guy with no morals and likes playing the role of bad guy, or he’s a guy who’s genuinely full of hate.

    One of those two could consciously change his routine because he’s crossed the line of what’s effective. The other is basically Steve Downie with talent.

  77. dstaples says:

    Dennis Rodman on the Oilers?

    He’d never come here. Too far out of the limelight.

    No one will notice when he wears a dress and make-up to the locker room, that kind of thing, whatever Rodman-like stunt Avery pulls next.

  78. hockeyfan says:

    it doesnt matter. the oilers are gunna use the extra cap space to get ryan smyth

  79. Sean says:

    Quote on Avery

    “But he is a good player. Believe me. He has speed, sense of the game, sees the net well – he has everything. In some games Avery was Rangers’ best player. If he is trusted by the team he always plays well. ” – Jagr

    If Avery loves the limelight so much, Edmonton really many not that bad of a fit.

  80. Gord says:

    Havelid to NJ?

    There goes the inexpensive “upcoming UFA” D-man I wanted.

    Rats!!!

  81. Thrillho says:

    LT…Excellent site; always well done.

    So. I’ve been reading this blog just about every day for over 2 years and this will be my first comment. It’s not that I haven’t disagreed with anything before, it’s just that I feel that strongly about this…

    When a person has been alienated himself from FOUR teams, why would you want to be the fifth? Seriously.

    You can talk about good cap fits and money all you want. No Avery for me. No way.

    At the risk of distancing myself from the math guys on my first post…Something about him just doesn’t feel right.

  82. Matt N says:

    @ knighttown

    I have been following the NBA for a while and I get the concept of expiring contracts. However, I think that one of the biggest differences is the UFA pool available year after year. In the NBA it is a given that large groups of UFA’s with lots of big names will be available every year. One of the reasons is that the first contract is 3 years plus one year team option, rather than 5 years as per the NHL. The other is the 7 or 27 rule in the NHL. You must be in the league 7 years or be older than 27 to get UFA status. In the NBA the only rule is you must be in the league 3 years. This creates a much deeper pool of talent to choose from. Especially considering that NBA rosters have 12 spots and NHL have 23. The teams with cap space are over paying in the NHL because of the lack of options. It is simple supply and demand economics. It is kind of ironic that the NHL put in rigorous free agency demands to curb spending and are in fact driving the market for the few available players up.

  83. Dennis says:

    ThrillHo: we’ll give you another chance;):)

  84. Dennis says:

    HB: that Finn has good numbers back home but I didn’t check BTN to see if there’s anything that stands out about him in the pros.

    A quick check on Havelid shows a guy who’s played tough min the last two years on a bad team – though he does play with the best linemates – and he comes out a little under the cut-line.

    He’s going to a better division but he’ll be playing in front of a much better netminder so I can’t see how this doesn’t look like a fine deal for Lou.

    Others?

  85. knighttown says:

    @ Dennis

    It looks like he (and Enstrom) is playing the toughest minutes on the team but still has the 2nd best GF/GA at a minus 3. I’d say that’s pretty solid.

  86. Scott says:

    Like Kevin Weekes in New Jersey who should, by all rights be the #3. He WILL NOT return anything at the deadline other than cap space but Lou won’t waive him and so Scott Clemenson has to play in Albany.

    Clemmensen was up on an emergency basis and would need to clear re-entry waivers in order to play with the Devils.

    If the Oilers were to move Staois, Moreau and Pisani PLUS 2nd round picks in 2009 and 2010 for nothing more than late round fodder, could you get behind it?

    Not one bit. You yourself have said that the market does not require this. If you’re really desperate someone will probably take the player on waivers. Why give away picks?

  87. Coach pb9617 says:

    When a person has been alienated himself from FOUR teams, why would you want to be the fifth? Seriously.

    Do the contract rules hold for the second team as well? If the Oilers pick him up and dump him next year, then he gets picked up again, are the Oilers only on the hook for $970k a season?

  88. hunter1909 says:

    1988 Sather would be able to deal with Avery no sweat.

    MacTavish? Tambaloney? Puleeeease.

    To paraphrase Sweet: They wouldn’t have a farking clue what to do with this bad boy.

  89. Mike says:

    Any idea what the re-entry waiver rules are for if we pick him up and his shinanigans prove to be too much?

  90. Mike says:

    I suppose that wasn’t very clear how do the salaries work if we waive him and he gets picked up by a third team on re-entry

  91. bookie says:

    Wow, I thought I was a bit desperate, but some of you are like ‘mail order bride’ desperate to be considering bringing Avery here.

    Maybe its just that you are all looking for something to blog about that is more interesting than fat Penner, Yay/Boo Shremp, and Fire MacT…?

  92. knighttown says:

    Like Kevin Weekes in New Jersey who should, by all rights be the #3. He WILL NOT return anything at the deadline other than cap space but Lou won’t waive him and so Scott Clemenson has to play in Albany.

    Clemmensen was up on an emergency basis and would need to clear re-entry waivers in order to play with the Devils.

    Thanks Scott. I knew he was up on emergency recall (and posted it was a scam) but was not sure on what the Devils options are. So what about my other option? If they deal him, does that team have to then put him on recall waivers to call him back up? And when do “waivers” end? Assuming they won’t risk losing him does he have to wait until next year or is there some sort of “roster expansion” that might capture him between now and the playoffs.

    If the Oilers were to move Staois, Moreau and Pisani PLUS 2nd round picks in 2009 and 2010 for nothing more than late round fodder, could you get behind it?

    Not one bit. You yourself have said that the market does not require this. If you’re really desperate someone will probably take the player on waivers. Why give away picks?

    But as we move toward a salary cap that actually caps salaries, now might be the only time to rid yourself of bad contracts. And by now I mean after the season. And by bad contracts I mean those of such dollar value or term that the cap space is more valuable in a 48 million dollar cap world than the player. Look at it this way, moving those three guys and the picks allows you (at least) to sign Cogliano, Gagner and Grebeshkov and/or the cap space to poach someone from a team that managed their cap carelessly. And OF COURSE you try to trade them for an asset first and then you try waivers.

    Let’s switch gears to try and highlight a better example because the Oilers have no millstone contracts. Pretend you’re Glen Sather. You put together your team to make a run this year and you miss the playoffs. Over the summer you glance down and see these 6 contracts:
    1. Henrik Lundqvist- $6,900,000 till 2014
    2. Scott Gomez- $7,400,000 till 2014
    3. Wade Redden- $6,500,000 till 2014
    4. Michal Rozsival- $5,000,000 till 2012
    5. Chris Drury- $7,050,000 till 2012
    6. Markus Naslund- $4,000,000 till 2010.

    For those counting, in 2010 when the Cap is rumoured to be $48,000,000, the Rangers will have 6 players signed for almost $37,000,000. They’ll need to add another 17 players for 11 million. That’s $647,000 per person which by that time might be 17 players at the league minimum. Even Steve MacIntyre is above the minimum. You can’t even play your young draft picks because the entry level deals for 1st rounders are above the mins. That’s not difficult, it’s impossible.

    So on September 15th, 2010, how much is it worth to you for someone to take Wade Redden off your hands.

    Salary Cap Armageddon. It’s coming folks and the GM’s that can see it on the horizon are going to find stealing talent easier than beating HBomb in a sobriety test.

  93. PunjabiOil says:

    Really? I thought all the evidence we had was that GlenX’s first choice was to play in Calgary, for the team he’d grown up cheering for. As for Hejda, it’s certainly possible that he wanted to play here, but do you have any basis for saying that that’s the case

    1) Glencross mentioned when he was traded here last year, that he was an Oilers fan growing up.

    2) The Oilers never offered him a decent contract, as per Glencross. Calgary offered significantly more, and Glencross’s camp did come back to the Oilers to see if they’d match.

    They didn’t.

    3) It would have been a great value contract, even if it posed some risk. AT 1.2M, there was strong potential for over performance. Of course this is the same management group that let Ryan Smyth go for $100,000 and then proceeded to offer Michael Nylander 5M.

    4) It is the same management group as to why we have Dustbin Penner taking a significant chunk of the cap space, all while underperforming his contract. To add insult to the woes, the Oilers had to give up the number 12 overall pick (Teubert, Myers), early 2nd round pick (Robak, Wahl), a late 2nd round pick to acquire Penner and a 3rd.

    God, just thinking back at the mess Kevin Lowe has made post 2006 boils my blood.

    5) It’s quite sad, actually.

  94. PunjabiOil says:

    There are too many stories like that for my taste.

    Maybe I just have thicker skin, but I care more about this on ice contributions than off ice.

    Is he a good value at 1.9M in my opinion? Yes.

    Is there potential for significant overperformance if the Oilers pick him up? Yes.

    Has he demonstrated outscoring opponents while playing the tough minutes in NY? Yes.

    Will he help the team win hockey games? I believe so.

    On those grounds, I have no problem him plucking him off waivers and getting a free asset. If he turns out to be a big problem in the dressing room and effects the Oilers adversely (which I believe is nonsense), they can always let him rot in the minors.

  95. Scott says:

    For those counting, in 2010 when the Cap is rumoured to be $48,000,000, the Rangers will have 6 players signed for almost $37,000,000.

    I think each situation is different. I’d imagine that with New York, they’re in a position where eating Wade Redden’s (for example) salary in the minors doesn’t hurt too much. Wait it out while you spend more money. Or at least, that’s what I would expect the Rangers to do. Same with other traditionally wealthy teams like Philadelphia or Toronto.

    Assuming they won’t risk losing him does he have to wait until next year or is there some sort of “roster expansion” that might capture him between now and the playoffs.

    With Clemmensen, I think that if he gets traded to another team he would then need to clear waivers. This is what happened with Ouellet earlier this year. But, if he were traded to a team that could re-call him on an emergency basis (like Buffalo) then that would work. I’m not sure if he is allowed to be a black ace for the playoffs or not, but I think that he probably is (I was having trouble finding this in the CBA).

    3) It would have been a great value contract, even if it posed some risk. AT 1.2M, there was strong potential for over performance. Of course this is the same management group that let Ryan Smyth go for $100,000 and then proceeded to offer Michael Nylander 5M.

    The Smyth and Nylander contracts were clear blunders. With Glencross, I find it difficult to get upset. The man was rolling sevens on the fourth line and getting some results. I can see how a reasonable person would have thought that 1.2M isn’t affordable for a fourth line player. They were wrong, but the decision, at the time it was made, makes sense.

    4) It is the same management group as to why we have Dustbin Penner taking a significant chunk of the cap space, all while underperforming his contract. To add insult to the woes, the Oilers had to give up the number 12 overall pick (Teubert, Myers), early 2nd round pick (Robak, Wahl), a late 2nd round pick to acquire Penner and a 3rd.

    What does Penner need to do in order to not underperform his contract? I’ve been pretty happy with Penner’s results this season and think his contract is actually good value if he’s playing on the top line. An outscoring top line for 15.85M is great! Now if we could spend our depth money wisely, we’d be in business.

  96. Scott says:

    Am I misremembering, or did the Oilers blow their waiver priority on Boulerice early in the season?

    You can’t “blow” your waiver priority except by winning games. Waiver priority is determined by points percentage at the time of the claim, so we would have priority over any teams ahead of us in the standings.

  97. Schitzo says:

    Am I misremembering, or did the Oilers blow their waiver priority on Boulerice early in the season?

    There’s no such thing. The islanders could claim every player on waivers all year and would still get first crack at the next guy.

  98. PunjabiOil says:

    The Smyth and Nylander contracts were clear blunders. With Glencross, I find it difficult to get upset. The man was rolling sevens on the fourth line and getting some results. I can see how a reasonable person would have thought that 1.2M isn’t affordable for a fourth line player. They were wrong, but the decision, at the time it was made, makes sense.

    Glencross posted pretty strong numbers in Columbus (outscoring wise), brought grit and intensity each night, progressed offensively in both the AHL and NHL level. 1.2M was not unreasonable.

    Instead of paying assets, the Oilers decided paying career minor league players in Jacques, Roy, and JDD over the current and upcoming year, to make negligible impact at the NHL level.


    What does Penner need to do in order to not underperform his contract? I’ve been pretty happy with Penner’s results this season and think his contract is actually good value if he’s playing on the top line. An outscoring top line for 15.85M is great! Now if we could spend our depth money wisely, we’d be in business.

    Penner simply needs to bring more offense to the table just to match his contributions with the cap hit.

    He’s been a beneficiary of playing along side Hemsky and Horcoff rather than vice versa.

  99. godot10 says:

    //On those grounds, I have no problem him plucking him off waivers and getting a free asset. If he turns out to be a big problem in the dressing room and effects the Oilers adversely (which I believe is nonsense), they can always let him rot in the minors.//

    There are no minors in the suumer. So during the summer, Avery takes $2 million off your cap number for three more years. He is NOT free.

    Also, there is no roster limit after the trade deadline, so Clemenson is back with the Devils later this week.

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