Can Jagrmeister Still Play

Word is coming out right now that the KHL is slashing prices on their players (neat trick) and that should mean a flood of talent back to North America in the fall.

It might also mean that Jaromir Jagr signs with an NHL team, possibly the Oilers. I imagine a good lawyer can get a professional athlete out of a contract that has been nicked 20% or more without endorsement from the players.

Can Jagr still play? He’ll be 37 in the fall, you know. Let’s list Jagr’s final two NHL seasons with his KHL season and then the Desjardins’ NHLE for this KHL season that just finished.

  • NHL 06-07: 82gp, 30-66-96
  • NHL 07-08: 82gp, 25-46-61
  • KHL 08-09: 55gp, 25-28-53
  • NHLE 08-09: 82gp, 34-38-72

He can probably help.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

85 Responses to "Can Jagrmeister Still Play"

  1. kris says:

    $?

    5,000,000/1 = :)
    6,500,000/1 = :(
    10,000,000/2 = :(
    9,000,000/2 = :)

    ???

  2. matt says:

    A bad lawyer could get out of that contract if it was a Canadian contract. Don’t know about Russia.

    Don’t know if the NHL would treat the contract as valid if a good lawyer made the argument that under a standard, western legal system it would be void.

    And don’t know if the KHL was smart with its choice of law and recourse to arbitration provisions in contracts in anticipation of that sort of argument to the NHL.

    And even if so, Jagr might have had some bargaining power and the dough to hire a good lawyer, Russian or otherwise.

  3. Smarmy Boss says:

    Well Radulov outright screwed over Nashville so people probably have no qualms about telling off the KHL. (Although with the financial straights they’re in they’re probably happy to say goodbye to Jagr)

    As to a contract. 3 years 9 million.

    6, 2, 1.

  4. hunter1909 says:

    Sorry to comment on what seems to be the last thread, and barely even that, but why don’t teams leave these prospects to actually develop in the AHL, before killing them in the NHL?

    Schremp should have been told for example “learn how to skate better you idiot”, or “you will never get out of the AHL…and to start with you’re going to be there for at least 3 years anyway so learn how to skate then”.

    Brule is even worse… a child getting put in against mean nasty grown men, gets his fucking chest broken by that mad flame(who was just doing his evil job probably), and a few other injuries on his childish body and suddenly he’s almost broken.

    Pouliot, a useless player at NHL level, probably due to his injuries picked up prior to the NHL. Why not just let him be down on the farm, until he looks like the junior star(but at AHL level) that got him drafted in the 1st round to start with?

    Jacques also comes to mind.

    Eberle will be next. Another child, tossed into the lion’s den. And meanwhile, desperate Oiler fans yapping about how many goals he’s going to score as a rookie next season.

    Bobby Ryan, as blue chip a prospect as ever there was, was kept down for a couple of seasons, now he’s actually just that – seasoned.

  5. Jon says:

    I know there is alot of smoke of Jagr coming to E-town. But, would jagr have to go through Waivers? Also, doesn’t this article worry anyone that Jagr is just going to Hossa us (drive up the price only to sign onto somewhere else)

    http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/jagr-doesnt-rule-out-return-to-pittsburgh-190975.html

    I say Edmonton has no shot…if jagr comes back it is to pittsburgh.

    However, pitts may have to clear salary and their is that staal kid…just sayin

  6. Smytty777 says:

    He can definitely play on the PP, which has traditionally been a sore spot for the Oilers. I said last year that Jagr on a 1 year deal is a no brainer and I stand by that. He either makes you a playoff team or you trade him at the deadline for some valuable assets.

    Does he come to Edmonton, that I am not so sure of.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Marc Pouliot is not a useless player.

  8. rickibear says:

    //Marc Pouliot is not a useless player.//

    Yeah LT: He is was misused and misunderstood.

    Mact misused a large number of players this year.

    Pouliot misunderstands that he is no better than a 3rd line player.

  9. Traktor says:

    “Marc Pouliot is not a useless player.”

    Is he any better than waiver wire pickup, Dan Fritsche? Not even close. At least Fritsche plays with a morsel of gumption.

    Pouliot might not be useless but he’s certainly dime-a-dozen.

  10. Traktor says:

    “Schremp should have been told for example “learn how to skate better you idiot”, or “you will never get out of the AHL…and to start with you’re going to be there for at least 3 years anyway so learn how to skate then”.”

    Schremp was told this.

    “His weaknesses are not quick fixes.” – Craig MacTavish

    Edmonton have been trying to send Schremp to Regina for skating lessons ever since he was drafted. Same with Stortini.

    The difference is Stortini went.

  11. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Traktor said…
    “Marc Pouliot is not a useless player.”

    Is he any better than waiver wire pickup, Dan Fritsche? Not even close. At least Fritsche plays with a morsel of gumption.

    Pouliot might not be useless but he’s certainly dime-a-dozen.

    Chris Gratton also comes to mind.

  12. LMHF#1 says:

    Doesn’t it seem like there’d be better pickups from the KHL than Jagr?

  13. Jonathan Willis says:

    “Schremp should have been told for example “learn how to skate better you idiot”, or “you will never get out of the AHL…and to start with you’re going to be there for at least 3 years anyway so learn how to skate then”.”

    Schremp was told this.

    That was my though too, Traktor.

  14. gogliano says:

    There certainly are not more marketable pickups than Jagr in the KHL.

    Jagr plus a new coach is enough to be selling hope again in Edmonton, so I can see it happening. He can still play, too.

  15. Lowetide says:

    Pouliot is an inexpensive option and there is some statistical evidence to suggest he can help a team in a defined role. I understand that there’s a tendency to dump on him and certainly those of us who defend him must be tiresome at some level.

    Having said that, I think he can still have a career. If it isn’t Edmonton, perhaps elsehwere.

  16. LMHF#1 says:

    Why would we sell hope? We don’t need to sell hope.

    We need to win.

  17. Traktor says:

    “Pouliot is an inexpensive option and there is some statistical evidence to suggest he can help a team in a defined role.”

    He’s an inexpensive option but even better options can be found for even less than the money it will cost to qualify him. It’s not like he was making league min last year.

    Poiliot’s stats have always told us that he is low event. That’s fine if you have intangibles like leadership ability or toughness and grit but Pouliot is basically a minute eater. He might be hard to score against but he’s a easy to play against. He’s exactly the type of player that Tambi is looking to purge.

    Long Island would be a good place for Pouliot to find himself.

  18. bookie says:

    Here is the quote from Jagr

    “”Yes, such an opportunity really existed,” Jagr told Denik Sport. “The teams had discussed how that could be fulfilled. But it did not depend on me. Should Omsk ask me to join Edmonton, I’d do that. But that was not something I desired myself. After we made the playoffs, the whole thing ceased to be an issue”.

    “Will I voluntarily terminate my contract with Avangard and go to America? That definitely won’t happen. Only if the two hockey clubs reach an agreement. But I won’t do it by myself.”

    So, I suspect that the Oilers are going to try to come to an agreement with Omsk to pay them the full value of the contract, Omsk will then pass most of that on to Jagr. Then Jagr will sign with the Oiler for some crazy low amount. Then the Lawyers will go to work arguing that the buyout was not part of his NHL salary and thus is not part of the cap.

  19. bookie says:

    Also Jagr might see playing with Hemsky and Kotalik as something he wants to do. So, there could be an incentive to play here. Also, if he was willing to play in Omsk, then Edmonton should not be too forboding for him… We are not New York, but we must be preferable to a deteriorating city in the middle of Siberia!

  20. Lowetide says:

    Pouliot is signed to a very reasonable contract for next season.

  21. bookie says:

    Jagr plus a new coach is enough to be selling hope again in Edmonton, so I can see it happening. He can still play, too..

    Yep, also, it would only be a one year thing, so it would not seem to be too damaging to long term goals. the leadership that he would bring to the room would be very valuable to this team.

  22. DBO says:

    Jagr: the world championships will be a telling event for jagr and the oil. Jagr is playing wing, with Hemsky at centre. If they get on well, i think this could be a selling point for the oil and jagr. Especially if we hire Renney as coach. i actually like Renney, so I’d be happy, and if it got us Jagr for 1 or 2 years with a cap hit under or around $4 mill, then I would be very happy.
    - Sign Jagr for $4 mill cap hit
    - Sign Clowe to offer sheet
    - Deal Cogliano for Dubinsky (really not gonna stop trying for this deal)
    - Deal for Harding, or sign UFA goalie that is not 40 years old.

  23. Traktor says:

    825k seems pretty hefty for 4th line filler.

    Joel Ward made 500k last year.

  24. Traktor says:

    DBO: You keep saying we should sheet Ryane Clowe but what you seem to have forgotten is that it will clost 4 million and a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for him to sign.

    I’ve seen you a bunch of times list 2.5 as the number he would sign for… if some team managed to get him signed for that price San Jose would match before the ink dried.

    Why would the Rangers deal Dubinsky? He’s one of the only cheap players on the team that’s saddled with horrible contracts. Are the Rangers assuming that Cogliano can play wing? Or are the Rangers going to deal the next Mike Richards for a center that can’t win draws?

    The only way you get Dubinsky is to sheet him. If I could get him inked for 6 years I’d gladly give up 3 picks and 4 million.

  25. godot10 says:

    //Bobby Ryan, as blue chip a prospect as ever there was, was kept down for a couple of seasons, now he’s actually just that – seasoned.//

    Penner looked pretty good playing with Getzlaf and Perry too. Randy Carlyle is also a hard match coach.

  26. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: Joel Ward is 27 years old and has finally established himself in the NHL. He is going to make well north of $500k in the upcoming season. How much would you spend on him, and with one full season under his belt what iyo is the probablity of a downturn in performance?

  27. DBO says:

    tractor: Both San jose and the Rangers have serious cap problems. In new York’s case they have a bunch of RFA’s they need to sign: Dubinsky, Callahan, Zherdev to name 3. They are short on wing and have Gomez and Drury in their top 6 at centre. Cogliano is a cheaper option for the coming year, and has the speed they lack. It fills a need for them and saves them money.
    As for San Jose; they have a cap problem after the upcoming season with both Pavelski and Setoguchi up for contracts. they have very little cap space for the coming year, and they may be loathe to sign Clowe long term, even if it is at $2.5 million. Right now they have 13 players signed at $47 mill cap hit for next year. You can come in and get Clowe witt not a huge offer since they have serious problems both this year and next. i actually think you could more easily deal for cheechoo and give up not much, since he has slid out of their top 6 and has 2 more years at a $3 mill cap hit.

  28. HBomb says:

    Joel Ward’s going to triple his salary this summer, or thereabouts.

    If the Oilers could pick him up and ditch the dead money that is Ethan Moreau, well, that would make up for letting Glencross walk. Almost.

    Is Ward a LW or RW?

  29. Traktor says:

    I’d say that Ward will have an impact next year similar to Glencross – he’s going to build off of this year rather than the whole lightning in a bottle thing.

    There will probably be a dozen teams interested in him in the 1 million dollar range and probably 2 or 3 teams that will go all the way up to 1.5 for his services.

    Obviously Ward is going to make more money than Pouliot next year but my point is that it’s not really hard to find players that can outplay their contract when we’re talking about players making less than a million.

    Pouliot has the potential to be a 2 million dollar player next year but at the same time I don’t think he earned his 825k last year and I have doubts he will earn it next year.

    DBO: You’re logic for the Rags trading Dubinsky is based on New York being astonishingly short-sighted.

    As for the Sharks, whether or not they can afford Clowe is irrelevant – The Sharks Management isn’t going to let a premium asset walk for peanuts.

  30. Traktor says:

    5 assists from Omark so far against Austria.

  31. hunter1909 says:

    It’s not that Pouliot is totally useless, but compared to the fact he’s supposed to have turned out a hell of a lot better than he’s shown so far in the NHL appears to prove my contention that this team seriously needs to raise it’s prospects far away from the NHL, instead of just dumping them into the lineup every time some player gets hurt, etc.

    Better to use waiver pickups, make a trade, anything, rather than risk exposing a young player to a level that most of the time(on this team anyway) just ruins that player’s confidence and therefore future potential.

    Re Pouliot: I followed him since his drafting, and he was a top ten Q scorer, with so much more potential than he’s shown in Edmonton, that it’s not even funny.

    Anyway, I just used him as an example. Schremp wasn’t told anything like I suggested. It was always “you’re just this close to the NHL”, when obviously it wasn’t true.

    This probably goes for Cogliano/Gagner also. Better to let these guys develop in the A for a year or three, before running the risk of concussions and all of the other shit that happens when boys meet men in physical combative situations.

    Sometimes hockey seems like it’s being run by idiots, who either don’t understand, or don’t care about these players in any way shape or form other than instant results.

    Oh yeah. The Red Wings don’t rush players, don’t they?

  32. hunter1909 says:

    Cogliano, Pouliot, Schremp, Gagner, all drafted as centers, and still the Oilers whine about not having anyone to play center?

    Bad development practice, plain and simple.

  33. B.C.B. says:

    //Marc Pouliot is not a useless player.//

    The question should be is MAP a useful player to the Oilers going forward? He is not physical and not a top 6 forward, so what would be his role going forward. My guess depth, or a 13th forward, waiting for an injury and stepping in if another player is playing poorly.

    as for Jagr, I hope it is a three contract for 6 million, 3 million, and 1.5 million.
    If we buy him out after the first year the cap hit is just under 1 million against the cap for four years, and if we buy him out after the second year it 0.5 million a year for two years: both are reasonable for the Oilers. Over all the cap hit would be 3.5 million a year for three years. He also could be traded on that contract, as well.
    In any case, Jagr gets at least of 9 million (after the first buyout 6 million + 2/3 of 4.5) and up to 10.5 million (if he finishes the contract).

  34. kris says:

    BCB says:

    “He is not physical and not a top 6 forward, so what would be his role going forward.”

    I have to politely disagree with the premise here.

    Pisani is neither physical nor a top 6 guy. Marchant if you want. Those guys play an important role.

    The one lesson we should’ve learned this season is that there are lots of parts that need to be filled on a team, and not all of them are scoring goals and hitting. We need PK specialists, face off guys, smart shutdown 3rd liners, versatile players who can play multiple positions in the event of injuries, etc.

    Maybe Poo sucks. The jury’s still out, IMO. But if he can do some of these things for 800 grand next season he’s got some value. So, it doesn’t hurt to hold on to him through camp to see if he can fill a role, especially since he doesn’t have that much trade value.

    I do wonder if he’s an unpopular guy in the room. Remember the comments about being the new Carbonneau from the beggining of the season? In my imagination it’s Poo, Nilson, Penner, and Brodziak who are viewed as lazy or uncommitted by the vets. My guess is Tambellini dumps one of the vets and two or three of the guys I listed. But its all guesses at this point.

  35. speeds says:

    BCB:

    You sure that is an accurate description of what the cap hits would be if you bought Jagr out on that contract?

    The cap hit is not simply 2/3 of the money, it also relates to the previous year(s) of the contract, see 50.5.d.iii (Illustration #2)

  36. Lowetide says:

    I think the Pouliot situation is a win-win for the Oilers. Should he fill a 4line role this upcoming season and duplicate this year’s stats it won’t be the worst value on the club.

    However, if he can be in the mix for that 3-4 center position and pop 15 goals then we have someone who can help.

    Pouliot played 650 even-strength minutes this season and scored 8-10-18. To compare, Nilsson played 780 even-strength minutes and scored 5-13-18. Ales Kotalik played 944 EV minutes and scored 11-11-22.

    Kyle Brodziak was 9-14-23 in 780 minutes btw and had a weaker pair of linemates most nights than the players above. I know it was a disappointing season but there are some useful players on value contracts.

  37. Jon says:

    Poo very well may have a career in the NHL but it will not be with the Oilers

    I think we can agree on a few things:

    1. Poo will not be in the top 6 as Tambo wants bigger and grittier

    2. Poo is not the shutdown 3rd line center we need.

    3. Our 4th LW and 4th RW will make less than Poo
    (Jacques at 500k and Storts at 700K) Not to mention Press box people like Reddox and Poutulny will make less than Poo.

    That only leaves two spots for Poo, either we trade Moreau and Poo plays the third line LW, or we trade Bordz and Poo plays 4th line C.

    The same way that his 800K salary is an asset to us, it also adds value in a trade.

    My conclusion: Expect poo to be traded in the offseason because Moreau and Brodz provide more grit.

  38. Lowetide says:

    Jon: There’s just no way to make sweeping statements like that right now. Tambellini has to rid himself of big dollars to get wiggle room, so players like Souray, etc are the ones to look for when talking about who is going.

    There’s more than 2 available spots for Pouliot.

  39. B.C.B. says:

    kris: I agree with your conclusion that a team needs more then grinders in the bottom six of their forwards. But Poo is not a great face off man, he is ok. But Poo does not play minutes on the PK, but could be effective in a limited role. Poo is not a great positional player, but he is very decent defensively. He does not rank about Pisani or Brodziak in these categories. He doesn’t hit (so he will have a hard time replacing Moreau, Zorg/SMac, or JFJ). He can play all three forward position, so that is valuable, but so can Brodziak.
    Based on this, I would say he is a utility forward: like I said 13th kinda guy, waiting for an injury or stepping while someone else sits, but without a specific role. Oh wait I did say that.

    Speeds: I have read through the CBA before but I get confused, because it is written so you get confused. I did find that section and read it twice, since there are no bonus in the contract I proposed, I think I am still right. If one of the lawyers around here wants to check it out it is on page 205-6.

  40. Traktor says:

    Jagr’s NHLE 08-09: 82gp, 34-38-72

    Wasn’t Omark’s NHLE just as good?

    One guy we’re offering up to 10 million and the other guy we we don’t even offer the max AHL salary.

  41. Lowetide says:

    Omark is an imp. Oilers are in a position of having to trade a Cogliano anyway (keeping Gagner and O’Sullivan) so adding Omark when they’re going to pursue coke machines all summer makes little sense.

  42. Traktor says:

    “There’s more than 2 available spots for Pouliot.”

    There’s only 3 forwards per line and Stortini is the 4th line RW.

  43. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: You’re looking at the roster backwards. ALL of the forwards after Hemsky, Horcoff, Gagner and perhaps O’Sullivan are in play.

    The Oilers will deal a Penner or a Cogliano or any of the available talent to improve the size and physical play on the top 2 lines.

    Stortini is here now, Pouliot is here now. We don’t know what the top 6 is going to look like and the available positions can change in a heartbeat.

    Talking about Stortini and Pouliot at this point is like talking about adding Rem Murray on the ’06 team: the Oilers have to decide on their frontline players before fretting over the secondary people.

  44. hunter1909 says:

    Does anyone remember both MacT and Lowe openly mocking the idea that this team didn’t need an enforcer, because hockey players were all magically supposed to be part of some imaginary “team toughness”?

    Then one/both of them construct a team expecting to accomodate most/all/several/many of the following players: Cogliano, Omark, Gagner, Pouliot, and Shrimp.

    It makes you almost want to be a (playoff)bandwagon Ducks fan.

  45. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: Somehow, for some insane reason, I see Stortini becoming some kind of impact player down the line for this team. He’s got more heart in his play, and enough raw skill, to pan out in the long run, imo.

  46. speeds says:

    I’m not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken as to the cap hits.

    (1) I went through and calculated the buyouts for your proposed contract to Jagr (If he’s bought out after one year AND if a 35 year old+ player is treated the same as anyone else in the CBA wrt buyouts):

    09/10 season: 3.5 cap hit (the year he was scheduled to, and did, earn 6 mil)
    10/11: 1.25 mil cap hit (1st of 4 buyout years)
    11/12: 2.75 mil cap hit
    12/13: 0.75 mil cap hit
    13/14: 0.75 mil cap hit

    (2) You haven’t spoken about this, but offering Jagr a contract 2 years or longer is risky since his cap hit counts whether he retires or is sent to the AHL (not sure on the buyout, I believe in the case of a buyout he is treated as a normal player in terms of how the buyout is applied to the cap).

  47. Coach pb9617 says:

    as for Jagr, I hope it is a three contract for 6 million, 3 million, and 1.5 million.
    If we buy him out after the first year the cap hit is just under 1 million against the cap for four years, and if we buy him out after the second year it 0.5 million a year for two years: both are reasonable for the Oilers. Over all the cap hit would be 3.5 million a year for three years. He also could be traded on that contract, as well.
    In any case, Jagr gets at least of 9 million (after the first buyout 6 million + 2/3 of 4.5) and up to 10.5 million (if he finishes the contract).
    BCB is a smart, smart man.

  48. Traktor says:

    The easiest way to make progress is to cut the dead weight.

    Don’t get me wrong – addressing the top 6 will surely be top priority but I’m sure Pouliot was identified very early in the seasonal autopsy as someone who is extremely easy to play against – something that Tembellini is trying to purge from the organization.

  49. Lowetide says:

    It seems a very curious place to start. “We’ve got these huge icebergs coming right at us, captain.”

    “Right. Is there enough ice for the guests?”

  50. Jonathan Willis says:

    I don't like it, but I think Traktor's right when he says Pouliot's a target for Tambellini & Co.

    I'd like to see him brought back because he's cheap and versatile, but if the team is looking for guys to replace with coke machines he's surely near the top of the list.

  51. Lowetide says:

    Jonathan: It's crazy. In fact, insane. You have huge, HUGE roster issues and Pouliot is <1M and is versatile.

    If that's how he's approaching this offseason we're in trouble.

  52. B.C.B. says:

    speeds: I don’t know where you are getting the 11/12 cap hit number from. I looked at it again, and thought you might me right. I have tried a bunch of numbers and the 11/12 year cap hit will be more. Even if I give him a signing bonus instead.

    I think Detroit will be regretting the Frazen deal too now (if it is original average salary – cap saving). If they buy out his four last season (3.5, 3. 1, 1) that will come to a buy out of $1.2499 a season for 8 years. and have a cap hits of 0.70, 1.2, 3, 3, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25 respectively for the next 8 years. I think GM Holland is too smart for this . . . so I am assuming our cap numbers are wrong and it would cost the Oilers over 2 M is 11/12.

    I still stand by the offer, I think it is a good idea. speeds, if he retires we buy him out first.

    PS: thanks coach.

  53. Jonathan Willis says:

    LT: When did you start thinking they were going to trade Cogliano?

  54. Jon says:

    Lowetide:

    Not trying to piss off anyone with those sweeping statements but my main point that seems to be missed is that Poo’s contract has value trade wise, the players you mentioned do not.

    Penner has negative value
    Nillson has negative value
    Moreau has some value

    Souray: This team needs to get tougher, grittier, meaner…so what does the the blogosphere want to do…trade our toughest meanest grittiest player. I mean come on, Vis, Gilbert, and Grebs all are the same type of player and Souray adds a different dynamic on the back end. Not to mention he has a NMC and was one of the few free agents who wanted to sign here. He has gotten little to no respect from the blogosphere since his signing and I believe he will still be here next year because he is exactly what Tambo wants.

    Players gone this year
    Nillson: salary dump
    Poo: His contract has value and their are only two spots available
    Cogs: He has a tonne of value
    Gilbert/Grebs: One of these two will be gone
    Staios: He still has some value and a contract that can be eaten by some teams.

    And some more sweeping statements for you Lowetide:

    1. If poo is in the top 6 then we are in trouble again this year.

    2. If Poo is the third line center, we are in trouble this year.

    3. Poo makes more than anyone on the 4th line not named Brodziak

    You are right in that we don’t know what’s coming or going but, as you always say, read the tea leaves…Tambo will add grit, size, toughness.

  55. Schitzo says:

    In calculating the cap hit of a buyout, it’s the difference between the REAL dollars being saved, and the cap hit it should have been.

    So in the case of BCB’s proposed contract:
    Years 2 and 3 add up to 4.5 million, spread over 4 years. That’s 1.125 per year.

    Year 1: Actually plays

    Year 2: Cap hit 3.5, paid 1.125, savings of 1.875. Cap hit – savings = 1.625 buyout cap hit .

    Year 3: Paid 1.125, savings of 0.375. Cap hit – savings = 3.125 buyout cap hit.

    Year 4: Simply 1.125 million

    Year 5: 1.125 million

  56. Sean says:

    LT: I predicted Stortini would get minutes playing the occassional top 2 line shift just because he brought an element no one else on the roster did. I was wrong but I could still see it happening.

  57. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: I think that’s where we’re disconnecting. Pouliot’s dollar cost and cap hit aren’t alarming imo, and unless I’ve read you incorrectly it’s your belief that getting him off the roster is Job 1.

    How does that make sense?

  58. B.C.B. says:

    new idea:
    three contract- 1st 3 M (with 3m bonus), 2nd year 1.5 M, and 3rd year 3 million
    and buy him out after year two, that leaves the cap hit at 1 M, but it is less likely jagr would sign since he would only make 6 year one, 1.5 year tw, 0.5 for the four (hey that is still 9.5 M, so maybe he would)

  59. Jon says:

    Lowetide:
    Could trading Poo and addressing the top 6 or goalie not be in the same plan?

    Any team trading a player is going to want good contracts coming back.

  60. Lowetide says:

    jon: That’s where Cogliano comes in.

  61. Jon says:

    Lowetide:

    And that’s where Manny Maholtra replaces Cgos

  62. speeds says:

    Schitzo:

    your calculation is the same as mine, but you forgot that a buyout is only for 2/3 of the amount owed.

    Jagr would be owed (2/3)*4.5 mil = 3 mil, 0.75 mil per season for 4 seasons.

  63. Lowetide says:

    jon: But those are secondary moves. Let’s pretend you and I are Tambellini and Lowe. We agree size is a concern and we need to add some, plus Lowe has suggested getting someone for Hemsky is a priority.

    Okay, the first item is to free cap room but offloading someone. Penner, Souray, Visnovsky, Horcoff, Hemsky, who are the other big contracts? O’Sullivan?

    Okay, we decide that Horcoff, Hemsky and Visnovsky are keepers from that list.

    We decide that we can get Jagr and sign a UFA goalie (say Biron for argument’s sake) but need to get rid of someone from the trade list.

    We find a buyer for Penner and even though it’s just picks we pull the trigger. We deal Penner, shoehorn Jagr and Biron and now we sit down and look at the roster.

    At that point the secondary concerns come in. Pouliot matters at the draft only as a throw in, and honestly I don’t even think that’s reasonable to assume.

  64. Sean says:

    Developing a rookie (Cogliano) for 2 years and then trading him away is a losers mentality.

  65. Lowetide says:

    That’s the mantra. They’re going to get bigger, and you can’t do that with Gagner, Cogliano and O’Sullivan. I don’t like it either, Cogliano is a terrific young player.

  66. Schitzo says:

    Speeds: Doh :(

    Good catch, you’re right.

    Oh and BCB, you can’t have a dropoff from 6 million to 1.5 million in years 1 and 2. The league takes bonuses into account.

  67. Traktor says:

    I said a couple posts ago that “addressing the top 6 will surely be top priority”, did you miss that part?

    I’ve said a million times that the lack of size in the top 6 wouldn’t be a problem if we had bottom sixers that had grit and guts.

    By the same token I’ve said in the past that if we had guys like Getzlaf in the top 6 then vanilla bottom sixers like Pouliot would be acceptable in terms of team balance. I guess that’s what you’re getting at.

    I see your point now.

  68. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: The bottom 6 for the Oilers shouldn’t be a problem. Pisani is a player when healthy and Moreau had a nice season save the goofy penalties and the weird actualities with the media.

    Pouliot I believe might be a nice option for the new coach should theu decide to deal Brodziak, bring in a veteran checking C and decide Pouliot is nice insurance for that position.

    That (along with the fact there are bigger worries) was my point. The grit on the 3-4 line is a distant bell from the Pouliot decision.

  69. Jon says:

    If we are going to talk about Jagr…after he already said he wants to be in Pittsburgh…less than 6 months ago. Then let’s dream of things worthwhile trading cogs + for:

    S.Gagne
    J.Staal
    J.Carter

    Trading cogs for any of those players is not a losers mentality…

  70. PDO says:

    Dealing Cogliano doesn’t have to be a loser decision.. it depends who he’s going for.

    Dealing him for a year of Frolov?

    Yeah, that’s stupid.

    Dealing him for Brandon Dubinsky? Not so much. It’s dealing from a strength to address a need.

  71. Jon says:

    Lowetide:

    I get what your saying, Poo is a good cheap alternative to Brodz but this brings me to my original point that Poo really only has a couple spots open to him and both spots involve tambo trading someone else away. IE Brodz

  72. Lowetide says:

    jon: He’d be in the mix for any 4line job, an injury to the veteran C or RW on the 3line plus the pressbox job.

    The new coach has zero loyalty and the MacT bias has gone with him. It can’t be any worse for Pouliot and it’s likely bad news for Reddox.

    jmo.

  73. Sean says:

    DBO I dont mind that trade. I just don’t think Cogliano is the guy the Oilers should be looking to deal. If Dubinsky is available, there are better assets to move.

    Cogliano is very likely a 50 point 22 year old next year. He was only -6 despite starting off without the puck 65% of the time on a team that didn’t make the playoffs. You can teach a guy faceoff ability but its alot harder to teach offensive instincts.

  74. Lowetide says:

    Sean: The problem comes from what to do with all of the small forwards. I’m all for keeping Gagner, Cogs and O’Sullivan but those three (added to Hemsky) mean that there are 4 small forwards in the top 9 (assuming the top 3 C’s are Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano).

    They could run with a small 2line (Gagner, Cogliano, O’Sullivan) and then a top line of Horcoff, Jagr, Hemsky with a 3line of big man, Moreau, Pisani but I don’t think there’s much coke machine in that group.

    The Oilers are going to get a big man this summer, and Souray, Penner are the dollar men who are heading out plus one of Cogliano or Gagner imo.

  75. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Lowetide said…
    “The problem comes from what to do with all of the small forwards. I’m all for keeping Gagner, Cogs and O’Sullivan but those three (added to Hemsky) mean that there are 4 small forwards in the top 9 (assuming the top 3 C’s are Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano)”

    Horcoff plays like he’s 5’10″ and 190 as well so that makes 5.

  76. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Lowetide said…
    The new coach has zero loyalty and the MacT bias has gone with him. It can’t be any worse for Pouliot and it’s likely bad news for Reddox.

    If the new coach follows Tamebellini’s “compete level” directive I expect Pouliot will be in even worse shape next season.

  77. Black Dog says:

    Fake MacT – except maybe all Pouliot needs is a different coach? Obviously that may not be the case but MacT kept certain players on a short rope. Maybe the new coach gets the most out of him. Maybe we have already seen the best that he can do but maybe not either. Players do get better.

    jon – traktor made the point about Souray to me as well. I didn’t like the signing originally but he had a terrific year, no doubt.

    Ideally they would keep all top four D and run Smid and Peckham out as the bottom pair but if they go after Bouwmeester or decide to shed some salary or use one of them as a chip then Souray is the guy. Lubo is the best of the lot and Gilbert and Grebs are kids, relatively speaking. Unless you’re trading one of them for a young tough shutdown type then its a poor move, imo. You need to hang onto your young guys.

    Frankly I’d be more concerned about losing Suuray’s goals then his toughness. Replacing 20 plus goals from a blueliner is difficult. Getting some toughness, not so much.

    And they HAVE to get the salary situation under control or next summer they’re going to be shipping guys out that they really don’t want to send away.

  78. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Black Dog said…
    Fake MacT – except maybe all Pouliot needs is a different coach? Obviously that may not be the case but MacT kept certain players on a short rope. Maybe the new coach gets the most out of him. Maybe we have already seen the best that he can do but maybe not either. Players do get better.

    I really doubt MacT’s coaching resulted in Pouliot wandering the ice in a fog.

    But anything is possible.

  79. Eetu says:

    First of all, there’s no NHLE number for KHL. Sure, you can use the Russian Superleague number, but it seems that the one for KHL should be somewhat lower.

    The number of teams went up from 20 to 24, which seems to have had an effect. More goalscoring, bigger differences between the best teams and the worst teams etc.

  80. Black Dog says:

    Fake McT – you’re probably right.

    But I think it will be interesting to see how some guys respond next season if they are still around.

  81. HBomb says:

    But I think it will be interesting to see how some guys respond next season if they are still around.I’ll go one further – outside some changes to the secondary makeup of this team (the obvious need to ditch Staios and Moreau, maybe a new solution in goal, etc.), I’d like to see how the “core” of this team does next year.

    Lots of guys, like Penner, Nilsson and Pouliot, are at a “valley” in terms of trade value. Why not see if they respond to a new voice and how much the team improves simply by employing a different strategy?

    This year’s Oilers team wasn’t hot stuff, but given some of MacT’s decisions, I could see a 5 point improvement if they stood pat on 90% of the makeup of this team.

    I don’t expect we’ll see this (there’s going to be a major trade/signing or two), but it would be interesting if they did “stay the course” in terms of the guys on the ice. Between improvement in guys like Gagner and Cogliano and expected bounce-back years from the likes of Horcoff and Penner, the team as-is should be a playoff team next year.

    I don’t know if “just making it in” is good enough for Katz though. Let’s hope they don’t sacrifice long term success for some moderate short term improvement.

    And yes, I am posting at 5am on a Sunday. I’m still at work. Damn these night shifts.

  82. bookie says:

    Lots of guys, like Penner, Nilsson and Pouliot, are at a “valley” in terms of trade value. Why not see if they respond to a new voice and how much the team improves simply by employing a different strategy?

    I agree and if you listen carefully to Tambi’s presser, you see some elements of this. ‘We think we have some guys that we can get more out of’ and ‘We need to see if we can get more toughness and compete out of some guys we have here and then we will make decisions’.

    Listen to it again. This is not a guy who is looking to tear it apart. He ‘blames’ the players somewhat in the presser, but only to let them know that they were part of the problem. There are ample indications in that press conference that suggests that Tambi believes another coach can get a lot more out of some of these guys (like Penner).

    I am convinced that Penner goes nowhere this summer unless we get a really really good offer.

    It was either Penner or MacT…well MacT don’t live here no’mor.

  83. Sean says:

    LT, I agree the Oilers need a coke machine or 2. But my inclination is that the coke machines are typically wingers. Are we looking to move Cogliano because of faceoff ability or because of size? Do you think its feasible for Gags and Cogs to spent the summer working on the draw and improve enough? Do you think it would work to have Penner take the draws and rotate?

    Calgary wanted to get bigger down the middle and Lombardi for Jokinen hasnt been a smashing success. If Gags and Cogs could improve on the dot, I’d like the Oil to go with the Boston model. Small and skilled down the middle but bruisers on the wings. Detroit is also similar being undersized down the middle but their wingers dwarf Bostons.

    Acquiring a guy like Kelser or Arnott isnt going to be easy and if Cogliano is the guy we are looking to move I’m scared we will be comparing Tambellini to Craig Button in a couple years.

  84. matt says:

    I agree with Sean that the Oilers should be looking to acquire someone like Erik Cole (if obviously not Mr. Cole himself).

    Also, as to the “O’Sullivan is staying premise” of LT, why? I would rather trade him than Cogliano. He’s got a good contract and was a good pickup relative to Cole’s contract (if not for points down the stretch), but that shouldn’t make him untouchable during what is potentially a tear-down summer.

  85. Dennis says:

    I think 78′s the baby and Lowe’s last three years is the bathwater and I don’t believe one has to go with the other.

    One of the things that killed me about MacT was the 34 as pivot experiment, 13 as a pivot all year long; in the meantime, 78 had been a centre his whole career but now he all of a sudden wasn’t one but 13 was allowed to lose ~60% of his faceoffs.

    Now, maybe that was decreed from above but I wish we would’ve given him a shot or even give him some PK time for that fucking matter.

    All of 12-27-78 have to be tickled pink that MacT’s gone and at the very least 78′s now a possible 4th liner who can also kill penalties, win a draw and has an affordable contract.

    Look at him as a utility guy who’s a bargain instead of a guy who could be Richards or Getzlaf and there you go.,

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca