Kings at Oilers, G80/08-09

This is Rogie Vachon. Based on what the crowd is looking at (and Rogie’s eyes) one would guess that something unexpected happened stage left.

Since I can remember the Kings were picking up other team’s superstars and giving up a big portion of their future to do so. In this way they closely resemble the New York Rangers in that management never figured out that if you trade for a superstar and rob your team blind then it’s tough to win.

The most famous Kings were all traded for: Vachon, Dionne, Gretzky, Hrudey. Their best drafts who played for them were Butch Goring, Luc Robitaille, Dave Taylor, Rob Blake. Nice list, but they would have won more if they’d kept some of the kids they drafted for most of their careers: Larry Murphy, Kevin Stevens, Garry Galley, Maritn Gelinas, Robert Lang, Darryl Sydor, Alexei Zhitnik. The list is endless. Olli Jokinen, too.

Since 2000, the Kings have been better at keeping their best players. In fact, the current homegrown bunch (Alexander Frolov, Dustin Brown, Anze Kopitar) would have to represent a plateau in this area (although having Denis Grebeskov, Mike Cammalleri and others would help) for the Kings.

I think this club has a nice future.

The Oilers need a win tonight, and they should get it. I think we all know heartbreak is just around the corner, but it probably won’t come tonight.

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351 Responses to "Kings at Oilers, G80/08-09"

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  1. Swabbubba says:

    little early, watched the 1st period of the Flames game. Neither team setting it on fire. Oilers have to win to be in so do your thing.

  2. hunter1909 says:

    Bingo.

    I’ve been racking my puny brains trying to remember that old time team who traded away their future, and went nowhere.

    LoweTide, please say the Oilers ain’t going down that road.

  3. Lowetide says:

    This was supposed to show up at 6:30AM tomorrow morning. Thanks Blogger!

    Oh well.

  4. Black Dog says:

    An early start to the angst, the drink recipes and the fat jokes.

  5. Schitzo says:

    You mean you don’t actually get up at 4AM and start writing these? Boo-urns

  6. quain says:

    It’s true what they say, once you know the trick, the magic is gone :(

  7. PunjabiOil says:

    It’s getting concerning the Oilers and O’Mark are no where close to signing.

    What’s further concerning is the Oilers apparently don’t want to give Linus the AHL Maximum of 65,000. Are you really going to let a talented player like Linus go back in the draft over such?

    If they really wanted to pinch pennies, why the fuck didn’t they buy-out Mathieu Roy last summer, and saved $333,333? Instead, they paid him .500M to play in the minors.

    This stupid fucking, fuck franchise.

  8. Doogie2K says:

    And here I thought you slammed these things out in 20 minutes while the kids got ready for school, because you just knew what it was going to say.

  9. Ribs says:

    If Omark doesn’t want to play in the A, screw him. I haven’t seen anything from him that would grant him a roster spot and I think anyone’s fooled if they think otherwise.

    Games to score-watch Tuesday night…

    CHI @ NSH – 6pm
    DAL @ MIN – 6pm
    STL @ PHO – 8pm

  10. rickibear says:

    If Omark doesn’t want to play in the A, screw him. I haven’t seen anything from him that would grant him a roster spot and I think anyone’s fooled if they think otherwise.

    You do realize he is the one of 14 to do what he did at 21 or under.

    K. Nilsson
    T. Gradin
    B. Berglund
    ?????????
    Matts Naslund
    Patrik sundstrom
    Thomas Sandstrom
    Makus Naslund
    P. Foresburg
    H. Sedin
    D. Sedin
    H. Zeterburg
    L. Omark
    Johan Harju

    That is as dumb as saying.
    “Tavares doesn’t want to play in the A screw him. I can Think of 20 guys that have generated better in juniors. Tavares hasen’t even generated 2 points /game as a 18 year old.”

    So you must believe the same thing.

  11. Traktor says:

    I’m with you RB.

    Unrelated question for everyone:

    The majority around here seem to strongly favor drafting the BPA.

    Would you take Jordan Schroeder if he fell to you in the draft?

  12. Icecastles says:

    quain said…
    It’s true what they say, once you know the trick, the magic is gone :(

    No kidding! These past couple months I have been getting up early and getting things done, thinnking “If LT can be up that early and do these blog posts, then damnit, I can at least be up early enough to have breakfast before heading out the door.”

    You think I’m kidding, but I’m not. So screw you, LoweTide, I’m sleeping in tomorrow.

  13. Ribs says:

    Omark is Sweden’s Tavares now? Holy moly. I guess we had better sign him up to play with Hemsky next year then. I guess I missed the Swedish scouting reports who had him as #1 Overall pick in ’07 (along with everyone else).

    Kudos to him for racking up some points in the “Elite” league, but I need to see more to be convinced he can walk in to camp with a one way deal.

  14. bookie says:

    LT- how about if everyone just promises to write nothing of value or consequence until at least 6am.

  15. Lord Bob says:

    For me, the heartbreak has already come and gone. We’ve been playing out the string for a couple of games now.

    It makes things easier, actually!

  16. rickibear says:

    Ribs count how many players 18 years old have tavares PPG in the last 30 years.
    If we can use that as a marker we sure as heck can use the list of 14 and it says,” Oiler management how stupid are you?”

  17. rickibear says:

    Plus I like to look at the leading scorers for teams at the world junior championship to get a reference of a high probability NHL list.

    Linus Omark:
    -Top scorer for Sweden Jr.
    Yes.
    -top 10 Score @ 21 SEL
    Yes.
    -Increased in size from draft day.
    Yes.
    -desjardins numbers say 65pt player
    Yes.

    Man everthing here screams this guy has no chance.

  18. Ribs says:

    With 54% of NHL forwards coming from Canada it can’t be fair to expect the lists to be relatable, rickibear.

  19. Ribs says:

    I’m all for giving the guy a chance, just not a one way that screws someone out of a roster spot when he can’t cut the mustard.

  20. PunjabiOil says:

    Kudos to him for racking up some points in the “Elite” league, but I need to see more to be convinced he can walk in to camp with a one way deal.

    The CBA prevents Linus from being given a one-way contract. Just does (to quote LT).

    Apparently the Oilers, according to the Swedish newspapers, don’t want to pay him the AHL maximum salary of $65,000.

    Like fuck man.

  21. HBomb says:

    Would you take Jordan Schroeder if he fell to you in the draft?

    If he’s clearly the BPA at the time of drafting, yes, take him Traktor.

    The Oilers should have learned from the Parise experiment – the logic was that they had Comrie, York and Marchant and didn’t need a smallish skilled forward.

    Weeks later, Marchant was gone to Columbus as a UFA. A few months after that, Comrie was dealt away. August 3rd, 2005, before Parise had played an NHL game, York went for Mike Peca.

    This isn’t the NFL, where guys are ready to contribute immediately (such players are the exception, not the rule). You pick the absolute best talent. Drafting Zach Kassian half a dozen picks early due to nice size isn’t going to help with the Oilers pressing need in the area of big, physical wingers with talent in fall 2009.

    If Kassian turns into a 3rd liner and Schroder is the next Parise, you end up looking foolish.

    BPA. ESPECIALLY in the first round. If Tampa gets the first overall, do you think they’ll draft Hedman just because they already have Stamkos and Lecavalier? Even they’re not that dumb.

  22. Ribs says:

    Ah, that sounds more reasonable.

    Thanks for clearing that up for me punjabioil.

  23. slipper says:

    The Kings are a pretty good team. Positive shot diff, positive Corsi, positive zone shift, top ten PK, top 15 PP.

    A poor start, an unbalanced schedule, and some serious streaky goaltending must have did them in. Shooting 6.7% at evens didn’t help much, either.

    You could argue that the Kings are practically already there. They shouldnn’t have to do much to compete for a top 8 finish in the West next year. They’re a ways ahead of Edmonton by the math.

  24. bookie says:

    Let’s hope that all of the other teams do the Oil a favour tonight.

    I haven’t heard the name Floatalik in a couple of weeks, I think it was Bruce who was part of the ‘assumed him bad’ club – glad to see that he has outperformed those expectations.

  25. oilerdago says:

    Not holding my breath that we’re going to get the help we need tonite, but it ain’t over til it’s over, right?

    Oilers appear to be ready to drop the ball on Omark. There’s no guarantee he becomes another Zetterberg or Naslund, but when you see the comparables, how can you excuse screwing this one up?

  26. Quinn says:

    I haven’t heard the name Floatalik in a couple of weeks,

    I for one remain unconvinced about an inconsistent guy who is playing well in the last year of his contract. To me he looks like a third line PP specialist and not an answer to the glaring defensive weakness of the current incarnation of the Oil.

  27. Lowetide says:

    Hey I got up at 3:30 in the morning for about 12 years there when doing the morning show and STILL wake up at 4 sometimes.

    Sleep when you can, people! When you get older, some days you just wake up for no good reason. It’s true, damndest thing.

  28. jon k says:

    LT, I wish I could do without sleep. Think of all the extra time you’d have.

    Granted I’ve slept 4 hours in the last 72 so maybe I’m somewhat biased right now.

  29. Quinn says:

    Sleep is something for the weak. Well, I tell myself that everything morning when I get up with the newborn. And then again when the other two roll into our room at 6am.

    Although, I agree with LT about sleep. I think we have not paid enough attention to what Gillis has done in Vancouver around his team’s travel schedule to maximise their sleep and to create a healthy rest regimen for the team. Considering all the work he has put in to the little things for the players, it is not surprising to me at all that the ‘nucks have done as well as they have this year.

    Again, here is an area where a team president, GM or even a proactive/high-spending owner could tip the balance in favour of his team.

    Thoughts?

  30. jon k says:

    In regards to the Omark situation, I’ve thought of another way of looking at it.

    If you accept that the SEL is probably roughly equivalent in skill to the AHL, it is possible to compare Omark’s performance in the SEL to the performance of players in the AHL.

    While there’s some equivalency issues in terms of scoring rates, if we’re doing a really rough job we can just compare the top scoring players in the AHL to those in the SEL.

    Looking to the 2006-2007 scoring race in the AHL, the top 10 skaters in points were:

    1 Jason Krog Chicago 112
    2 Martin St. Pierre Rockford 88
    3 Ted Purcell Manchester 83
    4 Pierre-Alexandr Parenteau Hartford 81
    5 Cal O’Reilly Milwaukee 79
    6 Brad Moran Manitoba 77
    7 Jeff Tambellini Bridgeport 76
    7 Rob Schremp Springfield 76
    9 Pascal Pelletier Providence 75
    10 Grant Stevenson Quad City 73

    The only players on the list who were then similar in age to Omark were:

    Purcell 21/22 Sep DOB
    Parenteau 24/25 March DOB
    O’Reilly 20/21 Sep DOB
    Tambellini 23/24 April DOB

    The players close to Omark in stature are Parenteau, O’Reilly, and Tambellini who are listed at 5’11″ and around 180 lbs.

    Tambellini has been a regular in the NHL this season (finally). His stat line is:
    61 7 8 15

    Parenteau finds himself in the AHL still and his stat line there is:
    74 29 49 78

    Purcell split time between the Monarchs and the Kings:
    AHL 38 16 22 38
    NHL 37 4 11 15

    O’Reilly, who is the really interesting one, was a 5th round pick by Nashville. He split time this season so far as well.
    AHL 67 13 56 69
    NHL 8 3 2 5

    What is Omark’s value or potential relative to these players? Hard to say. Given that Omark is the smallest of the players looked at and none of them have made a seamless transition to the NHL I would probably conclude that Omark is far from the sure thing some fans seem to think.

    However by looking at O’Reilly and Tambellini and seeing that they are in the show, Omark is still young enough to suggest that he might have a career as an NHLer.

  31. jon k says:

    *I neglected to include Schremp in the analysis because I don’t think he’s a useful comparable to project forward from. Frankly speaking I also just don’t care about him as a prospect.

  32. jon k says:

    *Goddamn it. Those are the stats from the 2007-2008 AHL season, not 2006-2007.

  33. quain says:

    It’s important to note that Desjardins equivalencies has the AHL at about .45 and SEL at .59 so there’s a big difference between being PPG here and there (PPG in SEL is about equivalent to about 91 in 70 in the AHL, unless I’ve completely misread his paper).

    With that said, I mostly agree that he’s a lottery ticket rather than a sure thing, but he’s a lottery ticket that won’t cost us much money and we can bury in the AHL easily since he’ll be getting a two-way contract.

  34. Quinn says:

    The only thing I have said about Omark and I repeat again is this: the kid has shown he at least deserves to be playing in Springfield this fall. Give him a chance to show what he can do against “north american” players. If the Oil have to pay him $65000 to ensure that happens, it will probably be the least amount of wasted money the organisation spends next year.

  35. Schitzo says:

    Drafting Zach Kassian half a dozen picks early due to nice size isn’t going to help with the Oilers pressing need in the area of big, physical wingers with talent in fall 2009.

    Yeah, but the flip side of that argument is that once a Dustin Brown or Lucic turns out, they’re basically untouchable. We can offer up every smurf in the system, but if the big guy we need isn’t for sale we’re SOL.

    I forget who made that argument originally, maybe Traktor. It’s a good one, anyways.

  36. jon k says:

    Quain: Thanks for the finding the equivalency numbers.

    My idea was just to make a very rough comparison and to note that even the young players at the top of the AHL aren’t sure bets, so it might stand that neither is Omark.

    Even if we give Omark more credit for his age relative to them (21/22), his presence in a non-developmental pro league, and the higher Desjardin equivalency, we still have to conversely nick him for the size issue.

    Post-lockout or not, the NHL is still a league dominated by men bigger and faster than any other league in the world.

  37. HBomb says:

    Schitzo: If Kassian and Schroder are close, you can take Kassian. But if it’s clear that Schroder’s upside is a level above Kassian’s, you take Schroder.

    Best player available. Seems clear cut, but that definition is even open to interpretation, because team “A” and team “B” are going to rate certain guys differently.

  38. quain says:

    Even if we give Omark more credit for his age relative to them (21/22), his presence in a non-developmental pro league, and the higher Desjardin equivalency, we still have to conversely nick him for the size issue.

    I agree that the size issue is a nick, but he’ll be competing for the same space in the lineup as a guy like Nilsson so it’s not a huge nick. He’ll probably need some time in the AHL to get used to North American hockey, but all the other signs look very good.

    Until it turns out he doesn’t know how to backcheck and MacT blows up Rexall.

  39. Sean says:

    I spent a week in Sweden watching hockey games last month. Had several quality hockey conversations with hockey fans. For what its worth, not many of them that I thought were knowledgeable thought Omark was ready for the NHL.

    And his name is pronounced “Leenus” which too me about 3 days to figure out why no one knew who he was.

  40. Schitzo says:

    HBomb – I agree that BPA is important most of the time, but I feel that there’s a few niche roles where you don’t want too many of anything, BPA or not.

    Specifically, I’m thinking of goalies and smurf forwards.

    If you end up with too many big defencemen or scoring wingers, it’s not hard to move them for different parts. But how many teams are looking to fill a niche role like undersized forward?

  41. Sean says:

    I agree with BPA but I’ll cringe if they take another small forward.

  42. quain says:

    And then we drafted Pouliot.

  43. oilerdago says:

    When you look at BPA you should have a couple of candidates in that range that are being considered so that you don’t get over-stocked with small forwards.

    Or so goes the theory.

    Seems that the one place this crew has gotten in trouble with on draft day is the “reach pick” because they’ve over-valued someone (Niimake 2002, Nash/Plante 2007).

    I’m not saying that Nash and Plante are going to be flops but when you move assets around to get guys who were likely to still be around later, this team has gotten themselves in trouble.

  44. bookie says:

    I for one remain unconvinced about an inconsistent guy who is playing well in the last year of his contract. To me he looks like a third line PP specialist and not an answer to the glaring defensive weakness of the current incarnation of the Oil.

    I don’t think anyone sees him as a star or even a permanent 1st line player. We threw a high second round pick at him so you get what you pay for, but i was surprised at how some people really attacked him quickly when he came here despite the fact that he had a high hit total and is able to throw up points every so often. He make a pretty good effort to dig for the puck unlike some others. He is not the prettiest guy when faced with a defensive situation though and can be scary on the point.

    I was just surprised when some people chose him as a scapegoat/whipping boy on like day 3 of his being an Oiler.

  45. Phil says:

    jon k said: Post-lockout or not, the NHL is still a league dominated by men bigger and faster than any other league in the world.

    I assume you mean any other hockey league?

    This brings to mind a thought I’ve had frequently while growing up in Canada as a basketball fan. Can you imagine if a guy like Shaq grew up on skates? (Or LeBron, or Dwight Howard) They would bring in no touch icing awful quick. Dwight Howard has a 7’5″ wingspan. He could pokecheck you from the parking lot.

    Anyway, the LA Kings’ opponent tonight is the Edmonton Oilers, a team in the NHL’s Western Conference.

  46. Phil says:

    (sorry about the blatant plagiarism there, LT.)

  47. bookie says:

    I agree with BPA but I’ll cringe if they take another small forward.

    I hear that they are targeting this guy

  48. oilerdago says:

    Bookie, he looks better than JC Petite did to me.

  49. Bruce says:

    //LT- how about if everyone just promises to write nothing of value or consequence until at least 6am.//

    This stupid fucking, fuck franchise.

    Mission accomplished.

  50. jon k says:

    Bruce: I thought that was a joke of your design until I re-read the original comments.

    Burst out laughing at my desk.

  51. Ben Carter says:

    Those really are fantastic uniforms. If any team can get away with wearing purple and yellow it would be the one located in Los Angeles.

    Goilers.

  52. Quinn says:

    I was just surprised when some people chose him as a scapegoat/whipping boy on like day 3 of his being an Oiler.

    Granted bookie.

    My point was more that if the Oil tender a contract it better be in the range of 3rd line, limited minutes dollars – not because ‘we saw him good’ in the two months he was here (1-2 yrs 2.5-3 per). Otherwise we got another anchor on the payroll.

  53. Quinn says:

    And forgive me if I gueesed at a number too high for Kotalik – there is a reason I did not go into stats, accounting or anything involving details with numbers.

  54. Stuart van says:

    The numbers suggest that Linus Omark is in rare company with his SEL accomplishments. That distinguishes him for a long list of AHL’rs that score big, then can’t make it in the show (there aren’t many duds on that list of 14).

    There’s no guarantee he’s ready to play in the NHL, or that he’s ready to be an impact player in the NHL (many of the players on that list didn’t make it, or didn’t make a big impact, until a few years past 21). But, that doesn’t mean we let the guy walk. Certainly, they better offer him the AHL maximum, anything less is an insult. I hope they sign him because if they don’t and he does turn out to be a legit NHL’er player, boy will they look dumb. Course, if they give him $1,000,000 a year and he’s a dud in the NHL (not to mention the AHL), they’ll look stupid too.

  55. Traktor says:

    BPA works if you can address a need at a later time.

    The problem is not all needs can be bought.

  56. Schitzo says:

    The problem is not all needs can be bought.

    Ah, at least I gave the right person credit for the idea :)

  57. Bruce says:

    Burst out laughing at my desk.

    Yes, Jon K, it was a “found” joke. I burst out laughing myself when I got down to Bookie’s suggestion and thought to myself “no worries so far”.

    Since then it’s evolved into another terrific thread featuring something I hadn’t heard about Mike Gillis’s rest regimen (definitely an idea whose time has come), an interesting AHL-to-NHL projection, and a report direct from Sweden about young “Leenus”. Great stuff.

    The problem is not all needs can be bought.

    Not saying we would have made the same draft choice at #50 (egads!), but that Samsonov trade sure worked out from a Bruins’ perspective, what? Milan Lucic is an absolute fucking stud who could not be bought for any price. For starters, the Bruins could not sell such a deal to their own fans who love the guy in the manner of a young Cam Neely. Not sure if he’s got the hands, but he’s got size, toughness and desire in spades and will be a force in this league for years. 41 points at age 20, and the norm with power forwards from Howe to Messier to Tocchet to Shanahan to Neely himself is that it takes them two or three years to make room for themselves out there and then look out.

    I for one intend to find out; I got Lucic in my keeper league pool and he ain’t going anywhere. :) Had a couple inquiries about him this season, but no dice. Other guys might score a little more in the short term, but his upside is about as Huge as Milan himself.

  58. Schitzo says:

    Milan Lucic is an absolute fucking stud who could not be bought for any price

    So really, teams have three possible “choices”

    1) Get lucky and have a guy like Lucic be the BPA when their time to pick comes up

    2) Pass up BPA and take a gamble on it working out

    3) Always draft BPA and accept that there are some sorts of players you’ll just have to live without (because you can’t buy them later)

  59. speeds says:

    Obviously it’s a “huge night”, but I think there’s another game the Oilers should be watching on the out of town tonight – the CAL/VAN game.

    If EDM can win, and gets some help in the out of town games, it would be a nice bonus to have CAL win in regulation and clinch the division, since that might mean that some Flames who otherwise might have played come the weekend won’t, or that some top players may see less ice on the Fri/Sat games.

  60. Master Lok says:

    Oilerdago: Seems that the one place this crew has gotten in trouble with on draft day is the “reach pick” because they’ve over-valued someone (Niimake 2002, Nash/Plante 2007).

    I’m not saying that Nash and Plante are going to be flops but when you move assets around to get guys who were likely to still be around later, this team has gotten themselves in trouble.

    Um… like who? Plante may not have been a reach pick, in most scouting publications he was a 1st round prospect – and the Oilers didn’t move any assets to move up to draft him.

    And while some scouting reports had Nash as a second rounder, I don’t think he would have lasted to then. At least one scouting publication had Nash as a 1st round prospect. I am 100% perfectly fine with the Oilers moving assets to draft Nash earlier.

  61. digger says:

    I guess it’s a good thing we didn’t draft Parise then…

    With Comrie, York and Marchant in the fold, who needs another smurf forward?

  62. Schitzo says:

    That’s a bit of a strawman, digger. What I was arguing is that sometimes you should skip BPA if you have a shot at the type of player who’s not available on the trade market.

    Even if Pouliot turned out as the Oilers hoped, are 6’1″, 195lb centres an untouchable commodity on the trade market?

    On the other hand, how about 6’4″, 225lb centres from your own back yard?

    If they decided they had enough small forwards, that’s fair enough. But for the love of jebus, don’t draft a different, replaceable player.

  63. Coach pb9617 says:

    Although, I agree with LT about sleep. I think we have not paid enough attention to what Gillis has done in Vancouver around his team’s travel schedule to maximise their sleep and to create a healthy rest regimen for the team. Considering all the work he has put in to the little things for the players, it is not surprising to me at all that the ‘nucks have done as well as they have this year.

    Quinn, do you have some reading material on this? I’ve somehow missed this whole thing.

  64. rickibear says:

    1) Get lucky and have a guy like Lucic be the BPA when their time to pick comes up

    2) Pass up BPA and take a gamble on it working out

    3) Always draft BPA and accept that there are…..

    4) trade down for two picks take BPA and Carl Klingberg (Frolunda) at higher than ranked please.

  65. Dennis says:

    Mike: I never thought about that but it’s a good point. I’m sure I’ll crack but I’m going to try not to watch the OOT until the Oilers game starts.

    BTW, Bell has a free opening week preview of EX and I’ve got the Royals/Sox on in the background.

    You overly excited about KC’s chances this year or are you still following MLB?

    Bruce: There was a piece in the Globe and Mail about Gillis’ sleep plan. I think it was probably around Dec when I read it but that’s just a guess. Willie Mitchell in particular was a guy who said he previously had screwy sleep patterns but since he’s changed he feels like he’s got a lot more energy.

    I think the main crux of the piece was the earlier you go to sleep, the more refreshed you feel, ie all equal-hours-of-sleep blocks sleep aren’t exactly equal. I believe Mitchell said he’s started going to sleep at 10pm for instance. I think the result is something that was easily guessed in the first place when you consider the studies that people who work graveyard shifts live less than those that work 9-to-5.

    But kudos to Gillis for taking such info and trying to put it to the benefit of his club.

    As for tonight, I think the embodiment of the Oilers season is not being good enough at home and getting killed by the upper teams. So, it would be poetic if they got knocked out on Friday night at Rexall vs the Flames.

    Which to the day of the week, arena and competition would mirror their last stand back in ’02.

    To bring that back around to Speeds, he was always a big Josh Green fan and the Oilers got knocked out on a Fri but still had to play one last meaningless Sun afternoon game at Minny. Green had two goals – and probably an assist as well – and Mike did rejoice;)

    I always remember that game because from the ’97-04 seasons, the Oilers played exactly one regular season game while being out of the playoff picture and it was that game at Min.

    I taped it while I was out playing softball and it was also the day that the Junos were here in St. John’s.

    I could also probably tell you what I had for breakfast that day but I think I’ve bored you enough already:)

  66. Phil says:

    I think the embodiment of the Oilers season is not being good enough at home and getting killed by the upper teams.

    They’ve also laid eggs against lesser teams, including the last game in Edmonton against LA. I still remember being pissed off after that game at how little effort they put forth.

    That game, the mailed in effort against the Luongo-less Canucks after the Chicago drubbing, and the missed empty-netter against Colorado are the three that stick out for me this year. Five points that would’ve made the difference.

  67. Smytty777 says:

    Phil: for me it is the recent Phoenix loss, home loss to Ottawa to break their horrendous road losing skid and an abysmal effort at home against the Preds (2-1 loss) devoid of any emotion.

    Really there are any number of examples where the Oil squandered points this season, but those stick out to me for some reason.

  68. digger says:

    That’s a bit of a strawman, digger. What I was arguing is that sometimes you should skip BPA if you have a shot at the type of player who’s not available on the trade market.

    Fair enough, but I would counter that even in the draft game this is a low percentage play, given how difficult it is to get a read on young players at 17-18 years of age, especially the larger bodied kids.

    For every Milan Lucic, you’ll get 20 flavours of Ed Caron or Mike Watt. One could argue that Lowe was on a crusade during the early parts of his GM career for the next Todd Bertuzzi/Cam Neely, and it’s resulted in one failure after another:

    Mikhnov
    Winchester
    Caron
    Radunske
    McDonald
    Jacques
    Paukovich

    Granted, Mikhnov/Winchester were consider Barry Fraser picks even though Lowe was technically the GM at the time, but there was definitely a concerted effort to find that rough diamond. 7 1st-3rd round picks from ’00-’04 were burned up, and every one of them was either an outright bust or are showing 4th liner potential at best.

    It’s great when you find that talented power forward, but is it worth the cost paid?

  69. oilerdago says:

    //Um… like who? Plante may not have been a reach pick, in most scouting publications he was a 1st round prospect – and the Oilers didn’t move any assets to move up to draft him.//

    Master Lok: If I’m not mistaken a lot of the scouts had Plante as 2nd round material and the Oilers felt they had to take him earlier than they wanted because they needed to draft a defenseman and he was the best left.

    Again, he may cover the bet when it’s all said and done, but at this point it’s not a cinch.

    //And while some scouting reports had Nash as a second rounder, I don’t think he would have lasted to then. At least one scouting publication had Nash as a 1st round prospect. I am 100% perfectly fine with the Oilers moving assets to draft Nash earlier.//

    On this one you are right because we wound up moving up only a few places to get him and he may not have lasted much longer.

    But right now the org does not seem to be overly thrilled with his development. Perhaps it could be the kid realizes he’s got a more career opportunities if hockey does not pan by staying at Cornell. Who knows? But he’s not a lock at this point either.

    Drafting is a crap shoot regardless of what you do, so maybe I’m nitpicking here, but to me at least, BPA (early in the draft) is the way to go. Save the reaches for later rounds.

  70. Dennis says:

    Yeah, no doubt there’s a lot of warning signs with the org and Nash.

    They aren’t happy with the conference he’s playing in and they keep talking about him being too thin as well.

    This crowd won’t cotton to anyone perceived as being headstrong.

  71. Coach pb9617 says:

    This crowd won’t cotton to anyone perceived as being headstrong.

    The beatings will continue until morale improves?

  72. Bruce says:

    Regrets, I’ve had a few:

    BOS 1 @EDM 0 (OT)
    TOR 5 @EDM 2
    L.A 2 @EDM 1
    FLA 2 @EDM 0
    OTT 3 @EDM 2
    NAS 2 @EDM 1
    CBJ 1 @EDM 0
    MIN 3 @EDM 2

    Boston turned out to be the class of the East and we did get to OT, but that was the first of what were effectively three 1-0 losses on our own ice, so I’ve fingered it as the one that started what Staples would call the sequence of pain. Since then a botload of low-scoring regulation losses to teams we “should” be beating, at least when we get them on friendly ice. Even a few Bettman points out of those games would make a World of difference.

    All of those games were absolutely excruciating to watch. Either 1) we played pretty well and couldn’t score (e.g. FLA), 2) we played well in stretches but couldn’t score (e.g. MIN), or 3) we didn’t play well at all, couldn’t score, and let one get away on us (e.g. L.A last time in, lest we forget).

    A team with this level of raw talent should be able to produce goals on its own ice where the coach can work the favourable match-ups. To me Oilers’ inability to score on home ice is the tale of this soon-to-be-lost season.

  73. PDO says:

    If the Oilers had managed to keep their PK as good as it was last year, they would easily be in a playoff spot.

    In fact, they’d likely be fighting for home ice advantage with Chicago and have an outside shot at the division.

    That’s the story of the season, and why our hearts will likely be broken by Calgary.

    For the second year in a row.

    Fuck.

    C’mon boys. Listen to some Journey and get some help on the OOT board…

  74. Dennis says:

    Did someone mention YouTube??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYXEnbWneoc

    Not really sure why that clip does it for me but it honestly does. I love the original version of the song and musicianship of the cover is pretty good. The vocals are weak but it’s still OK.

    Then, at around the 0.40 mark, a bald guy that looks like a slighly younger Werner Herzog comes in and starts dancing and his heel-to-toe absolutely kills me.

    Is that the way he always dances or is he trying to be ironic and dance old-timey to a headbanging tune?

    The funny thing is that it honestly works both ways.

    And it gets me everytime:)

  75. quain says:

    The Playoff Miracle Special:

    Chicago Blackhawks -110
    Dallas Stars +180
    Edmonton Oilers -210
    Calgary Flames +135
    Phoenix Coyotes +130

    Risked US$ 1.00 to win US$ 41.65

  76. speeds says:

    You overly excited about KC’s chances this year or are you still following MLB?

    I still follow MLB, in fact I follow it more now than I probably have before.

    I don’t know about overly excited over KC this season, but it’s the first time in a while you can squint really hard and see the Royals winning the division. A lot of that has to do with the projected weakness of the division, and even given that a lot would need to go right within the team. Grienke becoming an ace, the Butler and Gordon developing, Jacobs hitting, Meche continuing to be solid (check through one game) and Farnsworth playing like he’s worth his money.

    Oh wait, Farnsworth blew the save in game one? Life as a Royals fan is fun…

  77. Quinn says:

    Coach,

    Here is the link (I can’t make it clickable)
    http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081115.wspt_feature15/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

    Basically it was an article by Sekeres that I read back early in the season (Nov 15) that pointed out how ‘outside the box’ Gillis was in his approach to GM. There is a whole lotta stuff in the article, plus some stuff that Gillis refuses to divulge, that tells me he can take some credit for the year. I just remembered it the other day when I looked at how the Canucks have been overperforming this year. Probably it has as much to do with the interest shown in them as individuals by the organisation as it does with the actual diet and sleep changes. But an interesting read now that we are looking back on the season they had.

  78. NormanMendoza says:

    @Dennis and @PDO,

    It will be inevitably tragic. They will win tonight and Friday.

    Nashville will get beat by DET, lose to CHI, and only get a win vs. MIN.

    St. Louis will get surprise by a OTL in PHX, beat by CBJ, and win against COL.

    It will be there for the taking. Then they will lose in a SO against CGY on Saturday night.

    Because the hockey gods are just that cruel. And they don’t like the job that Kevin Lowe has done.

    Namflashback

  79. Quinn says:

    I can’t get the full link to paste here, but if you google
    ‘sekeres sleep gillis’ it is the first article to come up (Nov 15/08).

    I just don’t know enough interweb to make it work.

  80. Lowetide says:

    Is KC still in the same division as Minnesota? I was doing some brief math on their pitching and minor leagues and they are going to have some good players this year that aren’t famous now.

  81. Bruce says:

    I was doing some brief math on their pitching and minor leagues

    LT: Given that the “thier” in question is the K.C. Freakin’ Royals, this is mighty suggestive that your interest in baseball has been, uh, exhumed.

  82. Peeeete. says:

    Thin Lizzy and a sunny day makes me optimistic. Maybe tonight will go well…

    The dancing guy is fantastic.

  83. ClaytonMagnet says:

    Just because someone has to…

    clap clap.

  84. Bruce says:

    If EDM can win, and gets some help in the out of town games, it would be a nice bonus to have CAL win in regulation and clinch the division, since that might mean that some Flames who otherwise might have played come the weekend won’t, or that some top players may see less ice on the Fri/Sat games.

    Screw that. And while we’re at it, screw Calgary. Let the Falmes lose tonight, then when the Oilers beat them in regulation on Friday and Saturday we’ll knock them off their perch and make the playoffs all in one sweet sweep.

    Desperate times call for desperate dreams.

  85. speeds says:

    Yeah LT, the AL Central holds KC, MIN, CHI, CLE, and DET.

    No huge preseason favorite for the division. In reading an ESPN article of predictions, I think every AL CENT team was predicted to win the division except KC. Then again, they were the AL team with the most votes as the darkhorse in the AL this year.

  86. Vic Ferrari says:

    Lowetide:

    Are you getting back into baseball?

    If the Expos were still around I know I would be. I lived and died with those heartbreaking fuckers when I was a boy. After my dad passed in ’84 I stopped watching though. I still love the old timey Expos related posts in this part of the internet though.

    I’ll send you a book when I’m done reading it, Lain. I found it through a link at MC79, ironically in a post where Tyler quoted a guy reviewing it who had completely misunderstood the central theme, which would in turn have contradicted MC’s point. (That is irony, no? A traffic jam when you’re already late is merely a piss off, I think).

    If you, Matt, Dennis, Tyler, Rivers, Grabia, speeds, Cosh, etc. ever start talking baseball somewhere, let me know.

  87. Vic Ferrari says:

    How did you become a KC fan, speeds?

  88. speeds says:

    book title Vic?

    I just took out a Jim Albert book from the library after reading you mention him. Haven’t started it yet, but it looks interesting at first glance.

  89. Coach pb9617 says:

    Desperate times call for desperate dreams.

    Temporary blindness and a case of wine for Heather Thomas, a young Tina Turner, and Raquel Welch?

  90. speeds says:

    When I started getting into baseball again, I kind of wanted to pick a small market team to be “my team”. I liked Bo Jackson as a kid. I also got into reading Posnanski, a Royals beat writer (my favorite mainstream baseball writer around – though I can’t claim to read everything baseball, or even most things), which made it easy.

    I think I largely just identified with another small market franchise – it felt to easy to cheer for the Yankees.

    I’m not as monogamous about baseball fandom as I am about hockey though. I have no problem cheering for the Jays as well, I don’t hate the Yankees and the Red Sox, and I’d like to pick an NL team to cheer for as well, but don’t really know who I can identify with in the NL.

  91. Vic Ferrari says:

    Speeds:

    Curve Ball, though I may not be giving Bennett enough credit. Great stuff. If you update your email address on blogger I’ll send you a couple of links to articles as well.

  92. Bruce says:

    Since the game is on PPV and I am off to other commitments I will not have a chance to see it, so will rely on reading salient comments in the GDT later. Enjoy the game everybody!

    PS Speeds: Since you are looking for an NL team, my St. Louis Cardinals have been a fun team to follow.

  93. Lowetide says:

    speeds: Bo Jackson was splendid. Just a wonderful player to watch.

    Vic: Yeah, a little. I was fascinated to see the k/w of Washington’s pitchers (on their roster) this spring. Unless baseball has changed there’s a guy names Shairon Martins and 10 question marks on that team.

    KC has some nice things, but can they keep them? Man it must be tough to be a Royals or Pirates fan in a world where the Yankees can shoot the moon.

  94. Woodguy says:

    Post-lockout or not, the NHL is still a league dominated by men bigger and faster than any other league in the world.

    Faster yes, bigger – not so much.

    Top 25 NHL in points as of 30 minutes ago:

    Malkin 6’3 195
    Ovechkin 6’2 220
    Crosby 5’11 200
    Datsyuk 5’11 194
    Parise (sigh..) 5’11 190
    Kovalchuk 6’1 230
    Getslaf 6’4 221
    Iginla 6’1 207
    Thornton 6’4 235
    Backstrom 6’0 183
    Savard 5’10 191
    Carter 6’3 200
    Sedin 6’1 -185
    Sedin 6’2 190
    Elias 6’1 195
    Richards 5’11 195
    St. Louis 5’9 177
    Cammellari 5’9 185
    Nash 6’4 218
    Semin 6’2 205
    Ribero 6’0 178
    Kozlov 5’10 190
    Alfredson 5’11 208
    Whitney 5’10 180
    Gagne 6’0 195

    10 of the top 25 in points are shorter than 6’0. That is not domination by big men.

    If you include players weighing less than 200lbs then you can say 17 of the top 25 weigh less than 200lbs. Again, no domination by “bg men”

    One last thought. I have met or stood next to 8 NHL player listed who were listed at exactly 6’0.

    I measure exactly 5’11 and I was taller than 6 of them.

  95. Coach pb9617 says:

    The Royals are fun to root for — they have such an awesome middle-term history.

    Anyone have lines today?

  96. Vic Ferrari says:

    LT:

    k/w is a strange thing. I remember you talking about that for ages, never made sense to me. Of course baseball is a lot more complicated than hockey, because the ways in which runs are created are much more varied and complex. In hockey it’s … get more scoring chances than you’re surrendering, eventually you’ll win more games than you lose. And territorial advantage, or meaingful possession, begets scoring chance +/-, and, gods willing, goals +/-.

    Babcock has a great tirade on the subject from last spring. gistuvit: The Wings have been a good puck possession team for 10 years because they’ve had a lot of good players for ten years, not vice versa.

    And as Bill James says, strikeouts aren’t that bad of a thing from a batters POV, and at the team level the frequentists tell us it is a good thing.

    The great thing about k’s and w’s, from either side of the plate, is the repeatability, and the heavily skewed distribution. So you end up with very good predictive value despite mediocre correlation to winning.

    Baseball … you’ve got all day to think about it between pitches, and it still messes with our intuition.

    Back to point: You are bang on with k/w and predictive value. Did you figure that out on your own, LT?

  97. Lowetide says:

    Vic: I kept losing in a roto league. You spent $100 and if you won it meant over $2000 and I never finished high enough to win any money.

    So, I cheated on offense one season, grabbed two closers and had a six man starting staff of $1 guys. They were:

    1. not famous
    2. with close to 3/1 kw
    3. below .500 W-L the previous season
    4. in pitcher’s parks (or close)

    I won.

  98. speeds says:

    Vic: Curve Ball is the book I have out at the moment. Also, I’m updated, so send away.

    LT: It remains to be seen, but the Royals have enough money to buy some of their early free agent years out, at the prices most players that age have been willing to sign 5 year deals.

    The Royals have a ton of payroll flexibility, they only have 3 players on their roster signed past 2010, all pitchers: their #1 and #2 starters, Meche and Grienke, and their closer, Soria. They clear up Guillen’s 12 mil after next season, that can go a decent chunk of the way.

    Bruce: I like the Cards, but I have a hard time picking the Cards now, knowing there’s a very good chance Pujols is out of there by 2011. I can deal with the team I cheer for losing their best player, but I don’t know that I want to run into it, eyes open, either.

  99. Vic Ferrari says:

    Good stuff LT.

    If I can find the interview of the guy who invented rotisserie baseball leagues I’ll send it to you.

    Apparently a few years after he’d started, he saw an 1 x 1 inch ad in Sports Digest (or some such) for baseball prospectus. He sent in $5 and received a crudely bound bunch of mimeographed pages from Bill James.

    After reading and digesting he realized that he was rewarding rotoleague players for the wrong things, but it was too late to change.

  100. Lowetide says:

    Vic: Yeah, the roto league puts way too much emphasis on SB, but credit where due not many people were talking whip back in the day.

    I think one of the reasons Bill James is sometimes misunderstood is because roto and fantasy fans think he’s writing about their leagues.

  101. Alice says:

    Ok, we know despairing gdts correlate with wins, or at least we claim they do
    MLB themes , I guess today we’ll have a sample of One
    So let’s go !

  102. jon k says:

    Woodguy:

    The point is that the average NHLer is bigger, stronger and faster than the average SELer or KHLer.

    It’s all well and good that exceptional talents can get away with being smaller than the average NHLer (10 out of 25 still isn’t great), but the problem is that every other guy on the ice is going to be bigger on average than in the SEL.

    Omark might be the smallest guy on the ice every night in the SEL right now, but the difference is likely 20-30 lbs usually.

    The problem becomes competing in front of the net and along the boards against guys that are going to be 40-50 lbs heavier than him (if he indeed weighs in at 170) and just as fast.

    Can he do it? Maybe.

    I just think we need to temper our enthusiasm a bit.

    Personally I’m hoping we’ve got the next Mats Naslund. But if we don’t I’ll just have to settle for “I told you so”.

    ;)

  103. mc79hockey says:

    The funny thing is, James started doing what he’s doing in part because he wanted to win his roto league.

  104. Vic Ferrari says:

    LT sed: I think one of the reasons Bill James is sometimes misunderstood is because roto and fantasy fans think he’s writing about their leagues.

    Yeah, he clearly realizes that as well. Increasingly baseball fans are becoming fans of players and less of teams. James blames (credits?) free agency and inequity along with fantasy leagues, but my guess is that the latter is the overwhelming driver of the phenomenon, as well as the being the prime mover of interest in baseball statistics.

    Math is just our way of quantifying what we understand, after all. If we don’t understand it, we can’t quantify it, so we look to the heavens. If something is beyond the grasp of math, it is beyond the grasp of reason, by definition.

    And if our attempts to grasp the game in real terms, if that fails to repeat or predict, then it was wrong … OR it is magic, and a cunning and curiously sports oriented God is testing our resolve.

  105. Dennis says:

    Vic: I didn’t know you were an old timey Expos fan as well? Fuck, it’s funny how that works around here, isn’t it?:)

    I will Never love the Oilers as much as I did the Expos and for how bad I felt the night after G7 in ’06, I think I would’ve felt twice as bad if it were the Expos who had gotten that close.

    K/BB is the bloody reason why I was never all that tore up about Tony Armas Jr. and I’ve had the idea for the longest time that anyone worth valuing would have at least a 2/1 ratio.

    I must admit that I’ve been watching a lot of baseball these past few days. I don’t follow teams anymore but I watched some of the Angels game last night just to check out Vladdy and how Abreau-Holliday-Giamni did in their new clothes.

    And of course I’ve liked Milton Bradley since he hit a game winning grand slam in G7 of the AA championship series for the Harrisburg Senators so I’m gonna check out his ABs with the Cubs and Derrick Lee’s always fun to follow. The thing is that if you miss a couple of years then you miss the kids and then you’re a little behind. But more and more I’ll see a kid’s name I don’t recognize and then I’ll look up his stats and then he’s in the vault.

    BTW, Tsn.ca is oddly enough the easiest place to find that will list a guy’s minor league numbers along with his numbers in the bigs. ESPN won’t do that and a place like thebaseballcube will but that site’s off the beaten path.

    Anyway, the Royals should have the 7-9 innings locked down with Cruz-Farnsworth-Soria and I believe they have Ron Mahay, too, right?

    Two things to finish:

    - it’s too bad I can’t get past my hate for the Jays because Lind’s projectable and Snider looks wonderful and is an easy guy to root for given his family history. But I just can’t do it.

    - Tyra Banks is absolutely fucking hateable.

  106. Showerhead says:

    Just checked the OOT boards and it seems that Nashville and Minnesota have both staked themselves out to 1 goals leads after 1 period.

    In almost as bad news, ATDHE is showing no hockey feeds and it’s 10 minutes to gametime.

  107. danny says:

    anyone have a link for toniights game?!?

  108. Vic Ferrari says:

    ‘The funny thing is, James started doing what he’s doing in part because he wanted to win his roto league.’

    You guys are the baseball dudes, but my sense is that this is how he sold it. The guy clearly knows what people want to hear. My sense is that he doesn’t really give two shits about who should be in the hall of fame or whether Musial was better than Williams by the narrowest of margins. That’s what people wanted to read tand that’s how he made his living.

    And I think he says he got into it because he liked baseball and had few alternatives.

  109. Dennis says:

    Anyone see the piece Barnes did today on 10?

    I’d be interested to hear the feedback.

    SH: Tonight’s a Must win for the Preds; they should lose on Thurs to Det and then they’ve got a tough one against Minny.

    Dal isn’t great but then Minny ends with Nsh and CBJ.

    The killer about the last game is CBJ”s likely to have 6th wrapped up and nothing to play for.

  110. mc79hockey says:

    - Tyra Banks is absolutely fucking hateable.

    Is this in reference to that interview she did with Levi Johnson that I’ve been reading about? I’m ashamed to admit that I know that, but I’m a politics guy too and it crossed my radar.

    Hawks just tied it up boys. Hopefully Vic’s cunning and sports oriented God is about to rain hardship onto the Blues, Wild, Ducks and Preds.

  111. Showerhead says:

    The killer is that there are 3 teams to scoreboard watch for. It’s as hopeless as 3 point deficits get but we’re all here and those of you with cable are all watching ;)

    Every stream-hunting night I wonder why I never get cable but the truth is hockey is the ONLY television I watch. The rest usually doesn’t hold my attention and when it does, that’s what the internet is for! :)

  112. PDO says:

    Got a link Dennis? I don’t see it at prosportsdaily.

    Hawks get two quick ones! Up 2-1.

  113. Showerhead says:

    mc79: Vic’s god better be able to conjure up one hell of a storm cloud – that’s a lot of Earth to cover. GoHawks though!

  114. mc79hockey says:

    The guy clearly knows what people want to hear. My sense is that he doesn’t really give two shits about who should be in the hall of fame or whether Musial was better than Williams by the narrowest of margins. That’s what people wanted to read tand that’s how he made his living.

    I don’t know. He’s obviously bright enough to make some money doing something else and, when he started, baseball writing about statistics that was sold via ads in the Sporting News as a way to supplement one’s income as a night watchman doesn’t seem like a hell of a career path.

    2-1 Hawks. Is it just me or is the stone rolling away from the door to the tomb?

  115. PDO says:

    Seriously?

  116. Ken says:

    myp2pforum is listing hockey again. The game is listed but with no feed yet: http://www.myp2pforum.eu/nhl-icehockey/37117-ice-hockey-today-04-07-streaming-discussion.html

  117. mc79hockey says:

    Fuck the stone rolls back a little from the door to the tomb and the Kings put one through.

  118. mc79hockey says:

    @Dennis: I don’t know why playing so much defence means he can’t score on the PP. I’m sympathetic to the defence argument at evens though. I also don’t buy that he got his deal becaues he’s tight with Katz, although I don’t know that that questions his character, like Horc seems to think.

  119. PDO says:

    That goal was all kinds of fucking shit.

  120. Steve says:

    Rod Phillips in the middle of describing a scrum in front of one of the nets: “And the player has no number!”

    We didn’t hear any more about that.

  121. PDO says:

    I guess it’d be a little too much for Gilbert to yell at Grebeshkov?

  122. mc79hockey says:

    Steve – Rod was right! Williams had a towel on his back.

  123. bookie says:

    2-1 chicago now

  124. bookie says:

    What the hell, I am just trying to get the game going on my computer and it 2-0 allready…man I should not invest my time in this team…

    jdd going in?

  125. PDO says:

    Ethan Moreau has sent the exact same breakout pass behind a defenseman by a good three feet with no pressure and no one in the lane in 2 of the last 3 games.

    Wow.

  126. Vic Ferrari says:

    “I don’t know. He’s obviously bright enough to make some money doing something else and, when he started, baseball writing about statistics that was sold via ads in the Sporting News as a way to supplement one’s income as a night watchman doesn’t seem like a hell of a career path.”

    Well, he had a degree in economics and not a lot of options. Apparently he’d imagined that he’d drift into academia, but didn’t quite have the resume. Then he looked to writing, knew he loved baseball, and figured that if even one in a thousand people cared about that game as much as him, he could make a living.

    A lot of other people are just as levle headed and are better with the mathematics, though. Still. forerunners should get props. Dude was Star Wars.

  127. bookie says:

    any description of what happened? Soft goals? brilliant play by the kings? Moreau’s fault?

  128. bookie says:

    Williams had a towel on his back.

    Isn’t that a two goal penalty?

  129. Lucinius says:

    First goal looked soft. Second looked very standard for the Oilers; a guy went un-checked and was completely open at the side of the net.

  130. PDO says:

    Bookie:

    Goal #1 was a slapshot from just inside the blueline with zero traffic. Everyone got out of the way. It was along the ice and squeaked through Dwany’es five hole inexplicably.

    Goal #2 saw Grebeshkov pick a puck up in front of the net, take two steps, have Handzus pick his pocket while Gilbert stood around. Handzus took a shot and LA put the rebound in.

  131. Icecastles says:
  132. PDO says:

    Chicago up 3-1.

    Minnesota up 2-0.

    All irrelevant if the Oilers don’t figure out how to beat the Kings.

  133. mc79hockey says:

    A lot of other people are just as levle headed and are better with the mathematics, though. Still. forerunners should get props. Dude was Star Wars.

    Yeah, he had an English degree too, speaking of useless. Agree with the bit quoted though. He’s a fun writer to read to boot, which is something a lot of the math guys grapple with.

  134. bookie says:

    Thanks for the summary PDO

    Dont worry about the Oilers, they have most of the game left and they play best when they are behind.

  135. mc79hockey says:

    “You’ve got notes here…how long have you been able to read and write?”

    Jesus Gene. Try not to act so surprised.

  136. Lowetide says:

    The Oilers look a little flat. I wonder if MacT threw some sticks on the ice?

  137. PDO says:

    I didn’t think it’d be the first period and the Oilers would have a PP they absolutely had to score on.

  138. Lucinius says:

    Yay, we get to watch the powerplay flounder again!

  139. bookie says:

    I predict an awesome powerplay gagner to gilbert to Kotalik –Goal!

  140. Showerhead says:

    On the PP, with Cogliano taking the draw, why in the world is the D-man so tight on the circle? At the very least he could back up to the blueline for a PRAYER at blocking the dump around the boards.

  141. Lucinius says:

    And Cogs takes the first face off on the powerplay.

    Seriously, like c’mon…

  142. Vic Ferrari says:

    Dennis:

    Yeah, I was a hardcore Expos fan as a kid. I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before. For the most part, I just like to leave that bit of sports memory trapped in time.

    Duke Snider convinced me that anyone with an uppercut swing was overvalued, Doug Flynn ran and hit like a girl, Bahnsen was a time bomb, Raines was unstoppable, Cromartie wouldn`t stop running on the bases, Dawson was God, Carter was a first ball fast ball guy, and seemed a bit of a dink. Parish couldn`t stay away from outside offspeed stuff from righties, the whiffs were as predictable as the Oilers PP point shots. I liked Speier a lot. Oliver too. Sanderson threw a fastball so straight it was crazy, a shame for him. And I always defended Fryman just because my father hated him, he was a fat lefty who didn`t have enough game to be a closer iirc, but they didn`t have better options before Reardon, whenever he came in.

    Thing is, I have a whack of memories about these guys and of that time, and I`m probably wrong about all of them. No doubt the numbers tell a different tale, I just don`t want to hear it.

  143. Lowetide says:

    Good lord this color guy is a super stoop.

  144. bookie says:

    I was wrong

  145. Lowetide says:

    Fryman was a wonderful character. He told the story after retirement that he’d pitched so much over the years his arm was crooked. One day he was standing on the mound in Montreal and it straightened out.

    He called out the manager and said “I’m done.”

    Killer stuff.

  146. Lucinius says:

    Its so weird to hear someone call out Gagner and Cogs on their face offs.

  147. Lowetide says:

    Peckham is a beauty. BEAUTY!

  148. Garnet says:

    Thanks, Kamus. Just got to see Peckham’s bout.

  149. bookie says:

    That fight by Pekhem is going to turn this game around!

    …high hopes, he’s got high hopes…

  150. PDO says:

    I think I officially have a man crush on Theo Peckham.

  151. Icecastles says:

    Nowyou can watch them lose with a clear picture.

    WOW! Peckham is a weapon!

  152. PDO says:

    How the fuck is that not boarding?

  153. Lucinius says:

    Not a great fight there, but good on Penner.

  154. bookie says:

    This Penner fight and Gagner hit is totally gonna turn this game around.

    Rod is complaining about the refs…

  155. Icecastles says:

    Johnson tried to steal Penner’s twinkie. NOBODY steals Penner’s twinkie.

    Seriously though, nice to see him stand u for Sam – he’s done it a couple times now this season.

  156. Vic Ferrari says:

    I`m with you LT, Peckham is a surprisingly good hockey player.

    If they keep guys like him and Smid and O`Sullivan, and of course Gagner and even Cogliano. Then trade off 3 or 4 of Grebeshkov, Nilsson, Penner, Moreau, Brodziak … and replace them with reasonably priced proven NHLers from the Sillinger tree … they`ll be fine methinks.

    Then again, Maloney said on CHED that Tambellini and him came pretty close on Olli Jokinen earlier this year, so go figure with these cats.

  157. PunjabiOil says:

    Not a fan of Brodziak Vic?

  158. sean says:

    has Rob Brown stopped talking yet?

  159. mc79hockey says:

    Carter was a first ball fast ball guy, and seemed a bit of a dink.

    Last summer, he was publicly campaigning for the job of Mets’ manager. While it was occupied.

    Gary Carter, who is managing the independent Orange County (Calif.) Flyers, is again talking his way out of a job – a job that still belongs to Willie Randolph.

    Asked about his interest in managing the Mets on “The Mike and Murray Show” on Sirius Satellite Radio, Carter said: “Boy, I’ll tell you what. I would love that, guys. When I saw that on ESPN today … I got on the phone and I called (Mets VP of media relations) Jay Horwitz and I asked Jay, ‘Should I try to call Mr. Wilpon?’ If there is this going on I just want them to know of my availability. I’m only a phone call away, because my contract allows me to leave the ballclub. I could be in New York tomorrow, if necessary, because if there’s anything at the major league level I can leave this job.” Carter added: “The comments that David Wright made saying that, you know, there’s no spark, there’s no fire – if anything I would love to bring that to the table because you know me, guys, I love the game, have a great passion for it and you know my enthusiasm.”

    Carter had openly campaigned for Art Howe’s job as well while Howe was still at the Mets’ helm.

    Gene: “I am wearing pants…”

    I didn’t think he’d be able to top the bit about Bucky having notes so quickly.

  160. danny says:

    kings, 2 goals…

    oilers 6 shots…

    must win game they say

    get eliminated already so i can stop fkn caring about this abortion of an Oilers team.

  161. mc79hockey says:

    Is Kotalik Hemsky’s winger or his boyfriend? Tough to tell from Rishaug’s description.

  162. pboy says:

    http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1124493/index.htm

    That’s the original “coming out party” article on Bill James. To think that the guy was basically compiling all the info for free and now his work has changed the way baseball teams are constructed is mind boggling. He’s making a nice salary for his work with the Red Sox now too! The Sports Illustrated Vault might be the best thing since sliced bread.

  163. Lucinius says:

    Danny; I wish I could stop caring. But, they’re my team. If I could make it through the mid-90s..

    Just wish the team would pick an identity and stick with it.

  164. PDO says:

    Girlfriend, Tyler, Girlfriend.

    Alex Hemsky is dating Alice Kotalik, get it right!

  165. mc79hockey says:

    As for as local sports personalities go, Stauffer’s not half bad.

  166. pboy says:

    http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.

    com/vault/article/magazine/MAG

    1124493/index.htm

  167. Woodguy says:

    I guess it’d be a little too much for Gilbert to yell at Grebeshkov?

    77 hasn’t looked likes he gives a shit since January.

  168. Coach pb9617 says:

    One last thought. I have met or stood next to 8 NHL player listed who were listed at exactly 6’0.

    I measure exactly 5’11 and I was taller than 6 of them.

    But that holds for guys listed as 5’9″ as well. I’ve been around them while they were in golf spikes and I’m at least five inches taller than a couple of them. I’m 6’0″ even.

    2-1 Hawks. Is it just me or is the stone rolling away from the door to the tomb?

    You, sir, are the last person I’d take for early and unnecessary optimism.

    Dont worry about the Oilers, they have most of the game left and they play best when they are behind.

    Someone needs to have the Santa Claus talk with bookie.

    Peckham is a beauty. BEAUTY!

    He has fast fists.

    Penner with another brawl. He’s a strong dude.

    and replace them with reasonably priced proven NHLers from the Sillinger tree …

    Sillinger had a hip replacement.

  169. mc79hockey says:

    You, sir, are the last person I’d take for early and unnecessary optimism.

    I’m a lawyer. We’re positive and optimistic by nature.

  170. Dennis says:

    There aren’t a lot of teams playing who can get past the kind of a goal Roli gave up to start the game.

    Bills are coming due given all the suspect goals he’s allowed over the last 2-3 weeks.

    Vic: In describing Parrish – whome I can’t remember – I’m damn well you nailed down Tim Wallach. Him And Galarraga were down after they had two strikes on them.

    Slider low and away and me cursing.

    Chances: 6-5 Oilers – 1-0 ST

    I didn’t have the Kings registering a chance After the 4:45 mark of the first period and the Oilers best scoring chance was a missed net; 18 had that chance.

  171. HBomb says:

    Listening on radio, and it sounds like Cogliano is either playing like shit or can’t buy a break.

  172. Lucinius says:

    Well, I think I heard he (Cogs) was somehow recorded as being perfect in the face-off circle in the first period (5-0), which the colour guy took issue with, heh.

  173. Coach pb9617 says:

    I’m a lawyer. We’re positive and optimistic by nature.

    But normally more subtle with the sarcasm.

  174. bookie says:

    Someone needs to have the Santa Claus talk with bookie.

    What’s this about Santa Claus?

  175. PDO says:

    Two points:

    #1) I think 51 intentionally got himself kicked out of that draw.

    #2) Does Souray actually enjoying shooting the puck into shin pads for no apparent reason?

  176. Lowetide says:

    Parrish and Wallach weren’t overly similar hitters. Parrish had a stone cold stance and looked for things up and he could hit the ball 200 miles.

    Wallach otoh was an outstanding low ball hitter, he could rip a double or homer off the low strike (or below).

    Both were vulnerable to curves and things that broke outside late, but neither was close to Galarraga in terms of swinging at an outside pitch.

    Andres was historic.

  177. Black Dog says:

    Dennis – Jesse Barfield, etc etc

    A lot of right handed all or nothing power guys. Breaking stuff away. Then a little further away.

    And then again.

    I loved the baseball back in the day, could sit and watch a game and just dug it.

    Other then the playoffs now, meh.

    Maybe when the kids get older.

  178. Lucinius says:

    “Do you think a goal would make a world of difference?” – Gene

    ….

    He makes me weep.

  179. Showerhead says:

    What can you say? The chances are there, the zone time is there… a goal has to go in EVENTUALLY, no?

  180. PDO says:

    Their shadows, searching in the night.

    Street lights, people.

    Living just to find emotion.

    Hiding somewhere in the niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

  181. bookie says:

    Phoenix is up 1-0 over St Louis.

    PLEASE SCORE OILERS!!!! I am cheering as loud as I CAN!

  182. Lucinius says:

    Yay Storts. Good fight.

  183. Coach pb9617 says:

    Andres was historic.

    He did have a record for most one-handed swings in a career.

    Hm. The Oilers are acquitting themselves pretty well in the pugilistic arts this eve.

  184. Vic Ferrari says:

    There is a significant difference between players and their ability to hit with two strikes on them.

    Considering that most of the baseball mythology that I had bought into has been blown to bits in the past month or so, confined precisely by the borders of luck … well, at least that stands. And I can`t imagine what Gallaraga was like, if he was worse than Larry Parrish with two strikes. Doesn`r bear thinking about.

  185. PDO says:

    Working hard to get my fill,
    Everybody wants a thrill
    Payin anything to roll the dice,
    Just one more time
    Some will win, some will lose
    Some were born to sing the blues
    Oh, the movie never ends
    It goes on and on and on and on

  186. Lucinius says:

    Its final, Chicago beat Nashville. That’s good.. if we can win.

  187. PDO says:

    Hey Bruce:

    Stortini just won a fight against Ivanas with a big punch to end it.

    Figured you’d enjoy that when you read this later.

  188. Vic Ferrari says:

    Dennis:

    I remember Wallach as a bolt upright hitter who bit on the outside stuff too much as well. Though I`m not about to start arguing with anyone about it.

  189. Lucinius says:

    It looks like the guy doing the Just feed paused it to go to the bathroom. Between this and the birds and kids, its quite the feed! Too bad the audio was de-synched with the play.

  190. PDO says:

    A singer in a smokey room
    A smell of wine and cheap perfume
    For a smile they can share the night
    It goes on and on and on and on

    WHOOOO!

  191. mc79hockey says:

    Don’t stop believin’!

  192. PDO says:

    That bounce was bought and paid for.

  193. Lucinius says:

    Yes!

  194. Black Dog says:

    Ty, your enthusiasm worries me. Killing me!

  195. Quinn says:

    I may now allow myself to hope for this game and this game alone.

  196. Coach pb9617 says:

    Don’t stop believin’!

    You’re the one making roll away the stone references – you shouldn’t be surprised that a saint delivers a goal.

    Who was the last Oiler (besides Souray) to have the shooter’s mentality that Sully has?

  197. mc79hockey says:

    I really like the song.

    Look, if everything broke right tonight, the Oil would be in about the same position they were in after the Ducks game. I’m a realist, but hopeful.

  198. PDO says:

    Dwayne is a beauty.

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